From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 00:46:14 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l414kE7D013108 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 00:46:14 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l414k0TV030216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 00:46:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l414jPG3024509 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:45:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l414jNpf060833; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:45:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l414jJHw060803 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:45:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [68.57.35.93] (helo=momlaptop) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp8S-1HikEn3Vaa-00031o; Tue, 01 May 2007 00:45:19 -0400 Message-ID: <005901c78bab$7f59f9a0$6a00a8c0@momlaptop> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dress dummy wearing? Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 00:45:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19L5qzAwSyx3RXy3gWOui8Jl6CytFMm5aHxIkW BmnzVlBexFq6AqBaL7DmcIOQ9HZfAI5ZSfIL7dS/XdhQwWv810 ZXy+LDECBc/I57tN1jTYw== X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=25% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: d36e41d1-1566-48f4-82f9-8020073a9108 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 4636C608.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 00:46:03 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Paula, LOL! It is so sweet that you have a dressmaker's dummy named after me and you dressed me so nice! Thank you! I feel like a dressmaker's dummy... I am down to the crunch of the semester and reading all my students' papers. I loved this thread last time around. Thank you all for bringing it back around. I have six dressmaker dummies at school and all are dressed in original 1960s fashions. Let me see if I can remember what they are wearing. 1. She is wearing a gold beaded baby doll w/ bloomers . She also has matching gold beaded go-go boots. A VCU fashion design student made this outfit in the 1960s. 2. A mod pucci-ish printed mini-dress with an empire waist and large navy blue sash and bow at the waist. 3. A five-color mini dress with a matching short jacket. This dress is cut really weird with swerved vertical panels, each being a different eye-popping color. 4. An off-white full length A-line dress that is has an Asian flavor. The dress has a slit from the center-front hem to shortly below the privates. My guess is that pants or hot pants were worn underneath it. 5. Another heavy gold and silver beaded mini dress on white satin. When I first looked at this dress I thought it was from the 1980s because of the size and abundance of beading. But it is 1960s from the documentation. This dress is so-o-o heavy! 6. She is wearing a full-length fitted evening dress with a square l-o-w (to the waist) back. This dress is pink with white seed sized beads and silver sequins in a decorative pattern on the bodice and around the arm-holes. The bodice is sleeveless and a plunging front neckline. This dress has a secret. It has built in falsies!!! YIPPEE! Brain dead me... I remembered what all my girls are wearing! Oh well, one day these will all be online. I have photographed, documented, and written descriptions for the entire costume collection. It is just getting the time to put them online. It won't be soon... I was just assigned summer school. Back to fine tuning tomorrow's lesson! The 1970s! Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 01:05:23 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4155MBH013729 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 01:05:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41558Hp008040 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 01:05:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4154cJH026118 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 23:04:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4154ZRx069136; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 23:04:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4154WCT069122 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 23:04:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [68.57.35.93] (helo=momlaptop) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp8S-1HikXO3cC9-00031R; Tue, 01 May 2007 01:04:32 -0400 Message-ID: <006501c78bae$2e800260$6a00a8c0@momlaptop> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 01:04:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1++gGv4QuV2WQjh60ikGbqEAe/LOFNcICqsHGg 8kzlYFr+nWJrjbwI/BUTe2GOlDmV4WygDJ7nzPMUT+S6MX9qZd RSAF1aNaQwRdn+sbwsRyQ== X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=25% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] The Queen, The Queen X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: d2be162c-e848-421b-b6a7-f0a2d82d168c X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4636CA84.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 01:05:11 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Oh well, you can't win them all. Queen Elizabeth II is coming to = Richmond, VA Thursday for the 400th Anniversary of Jamestown. Last = Friday, it was announced that she would be at the Capital on Thursday, = May 3. And that the Queen would be receiving 108 people in = representation of the original 108 Jamestown Colonists. The = Commonwealth of Virginia had a lottery today to be one of the 108 = people. Darn, I didn't win. But my daughter, son, and I are going to = the Capital to see the Queen give a speech. Hopefully we can get close = enough to take photos. The Queen will be going to Jamestown next week. = LOL! I wonder if the Queen is going to the NASCAR race in Richmond = this weekend. =20 For more info about the Queen's visit and Jamestown's 400th Anniversary = go to: http://queensvisit.governor.virginia.gov/home.asp http://www.americas400thanniversary.com/ Maybe our Williamsburg h-costumers can give info about the Queen's visit = there. Penny Ladnier,=20 Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com=20 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 02:31:52 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l416VqYm028733 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 02:31:52 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l416VbYR005415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 02:31:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l416V2an033505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 00:31:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l416Uvan004635; Tue, 1 May 2007 00:30:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l416UrF2004550 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 00:30:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAEE1CD9BA for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 01:30:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4636DEBE.60408@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 01:31:26 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5f1fb9cc-8cca-4170-bdbf-c0a2f741edce X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 4636DEC9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 02:31:41 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Cin wrote: > I just love starting this thread... such interesting answers. A burnout purple stretch velvet bellydance outfit and a half beaded black bra that needs to be finished before Saturday's performance. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 03:23:46 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l417NjVV012293 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 03:23:45 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l417NSrp019344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 03:23:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l417N7HN040863 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 01:23:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l417N5G0034046; Tue, 1 May 2007 01:23:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from md3.swissinfo.org (md3.swissinfo.org [146.159.4.94]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l417N0tV033989 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 01:23:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from swissgirl@swissinfo.org) Received: from mail.swissinfo.org ([194.6.181.33]) by md3.swissinfo.org (md3.swissinfo.org) (MDaemon PRO v9.5.3) with ESMTP id md50026026877.msg for ; Tue, 01 May 2007 09:22:50 +0200 Received: from compaqub (24.216.120.37) by mail.swissinfo.org (7.2.064.1) (authenticated as swissgirl) id 45DAE0BC0323AD2F for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 1 May 2007 09:22:54 +0200 Message-ID: <064301c78bc1$9608da20$1f00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005901c78bab$7f59f9a0$6a00a8c0@momlaptop> Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 02:23:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Processed: md3.swissinfo.org, Tue, 01 May 2007 09:22:50 +0200 (not processed: spam filter heuristic analysis disabled) X-MDRemoteIP: 194.6.181.33 X-Return-Path: swissgirl@swissinfo.org X-Envelope-From: swissgirl@swissinfo.org X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-MDAV-Processed: md3.swissinfo.org, Tue, 01 May 2007 09:22:51 +0200 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT--Q for any/all professors X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 0186d49b-cdb6-4248-befc-8825db3ccd27 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4636EAF1.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 03:23:34 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I know we have a handful of professors on this list, and hopefully at least one of you can give me some input! Please feel free to take any responses off-list. The husband, Thomas, has decided that his ideal career is that of an electrical engineering or math professor. Right now, he's only got his masters (or will have at the end of the summer), and since he's been working full-time as an ee while also attending classes at WUSTL for his masters, he's a bit reluctant to go straight into getting his PhD. (I, too, am a bit reluctant to spend who knows how many more years of only seeing him on weekends.) However, most community colleges and a few 4-year institutions are willing to hire instructors with only a masters, especially when the potential instructor also has some non-academic work experience in the field he wants to teach. The husband likes the idea of teaching at a community college for a while rather than waiting to get his PhD, though he would prefer to wind up as a tenured PhD at a 4-year institution. As a first step, he hopes to be a part-time instructor at a local college, while still working full-time at the job he has now. Those few acquaintances I have who have become professors got into it by basically becoming professional students, and that's not a path Thomas is likely to take. (If nothing else, I'm no longer capable of putting him through school! And oy, we're almost done paying off the last batch of student loans...) So, we're trying to figure out a plan of attack for Operation Become A Professor In Montana Or Wyoming. So much for the background. My questions are very general: what path did you take to become a professor? What other paths have you seen successfully navigated? What would you advise Thomas to do, and what would you advise him NOT to do? How important is it to get your PhD from the college/university where you hope to teach? Who should he talk to--for example, would it be a waste of time for him to call up some HR departments and ask them these sorts of questions, while he's still in the planning stage? Is it a good idea for him to get a bit of teaching experience in wherever possible, as with the part-time instructor plan? And so on, and so forth, and the like, etcetera. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 05:31:08 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l419V66U030807 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 05:31:08 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l419Uq6M021179 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 05:30:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l419UPYQ055496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 03:30:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l419ULQH096828; Tue, 1 May 2007 03:30:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l419UH1l096729 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 03:30:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.c50.12163cb7 (43933) for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 05:30:00 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 05:30:00 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5365 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b612bd4e-a1a3-4e12-a049-0d2126514134 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 463708CC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 05:30:56 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 4/30/2007 9:36:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cinbarnes@gmail.com writes: I just love starting this thread... such interesting answers. --cin But no fair! You didn't tell us what YOURS is wearing! Ann Wass ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 05:35:35 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l419ZZFJ031478 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 05:35:35 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l419ZKxp016718 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 05:35:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l419Y5l2055924 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 03:34:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l419Y5qN098496; Tue, 1 May 2007 03:34:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l419Y2UU098435 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 03:34:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.be3.11bbbe7d (43933) for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 05:33:46 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 05:33:46 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5365 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9d22d96b-53b3-4176-b2ed-db1ad5f77ed3 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463709D9.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 05:35:24 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 4/30/2007 9:36:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cinbarnes@gmail.com writes: I just love starting this thread... such interesting answers Since I'm not sewing right now, mine is wearing an outfit that I used for a demonstration at our Ladies' Regency Weekend April 20-21--early 19th century dress of blue striped cotton with a surplice front and rows of gold and blue fringe at the hem, with a gold spencer trimmed with gold and blue cord. (There is also a small turban to match, but it isn't on the dummy). And one of my older dummies has a United States Navy ball cap on it, on top of a silk scarf. Ann Wass ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 06:23:13 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41ANCZw009536 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 06:23:12 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41AMwCM030978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 06:23:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41AM4Ui061283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 04:22:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41ALx1t022096; Tue, 1 May 2007 04:22:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41ALuxl021976 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 04:21:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.cb0.10d25194 (14502) for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 06:21:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 06:21:44 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c780fa93-1fc8-44e4-9551-a94c2b264bc8 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 46371502.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 06:23:01 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO right now one's wearing a toile for a prom dress one's wearing assorted bits of child sized tudor clothing I'm doing for a museum one's wearing a tuodor fencing doublet I'm doing for fun one's wearing an original 30s silk velvet bolero jacket I'm restoring and another two are wearing the beginnings of dresses being made for parties - one for a friend will eventuallly be an 18th c saque, and one for me will be some sort of victorian or edwardian dress for a days of the raj party the rest are shamelessly naked :o) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 06:47:14 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41AlD6T012134 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 06:47:13 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41AkxVq008312 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 06:47:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41AkWu1063641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 04:46:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41AkTDJ033434; Tue, 1 May 2007 04:46:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.140]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l41AkQsb033362 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 04:46:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 41725 invoked from network); 1 May 2007 10:46:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.250.46 with login) by smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2007 10:46:20 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: uXfbkK0VM1nQz2fJuYs5VGJ4nI2s6PwyiDZpwO.JVd0Up4sYjc2N_zz0g_QlqjDaTRdWYvmF3EAs4uasmPKHVJT4HI8- Message-ID: <001c01c78bdd$ee17f810$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20070430.145813.3168.3.Cley@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] hand rolled hems Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 06:46:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ff6d451c-ca3b-4af7-af2c-f47a6b2d9e4f X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 46371AA3.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 06:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO They can often be seen on e-bay, or in most books of early sewing tools. The bird sitts on a pearch; press the tail and it opens its mouth, The fabric is inserted and voila! There is often a small pincushion mounted on the stand; the whole piece is finished with a small clamp for attachment. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia J Ley" To: Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 5:46 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] hand rolled hems > Sewing birds? Anyone have a pic they would like to share? :-) > > Arlys > > On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:42:27 -0400 "LLOYD MITCHELL" > writes: >> How right you are! >> >> Kathleen >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Carmen Beaudry" >> To: "Historical Costume" >> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 12:14 PM >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] hand rolled hems >> >> >> >> Sorry for the late reply myself, but..... >> >> >> >> I'm doing some silk organza scarves (not historic, before anyone >> panics >> >> [1]). The fabric is 60" wide, so the hand rolled hem is very long >> - and I >> >> hate hand-sewing with a red passion, so I'm always trying to >> figure out >> >> how to make it easier and faster. And I hit on something this >> weekend. As >> >> long as the finished part is longer than my forearm, I can pin >> the edge >> >> under my right elbow (I'm right-handed) on a table, and hold the >> >> unfinished part of the hem in my left hand, rolling the hem >> toward me >> >> with the left hand's fingers. This keeps the hem taut, while >> rolling at >> >> the same time. I can then use my right hand to stitch what the >> left hand >> >> is preparing. Make sure that the table-chair setup puts your >> elbow no >> >> lower than normal height, or you'll be bending your back, which >> is Not >> >> Good. This goes fast! >> > (snip) >> > Melanie / Lijsbet >> > >> > This is pretty much how a sewing clamp/bird works. It makes >> pretty much >> > all hand sewing Much faster. I have two reproduction sewing >> birds. One >> > stays clamped next to my sewing machine for handwork in the sewing >> room, >> > the other travels with me, since I found out I can clamp it to the >> edge of >> > my travel sewing box. I do about 1/3 of my sewing by hand, so >> this has >> > really speeded things up for m. >> > >> > Melusine >> > _______________________________________________ >> > h-costume mailing list >> > h-costume@mail.indra.com >> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 09:23:48 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41DNmeD002805 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 09:23:48 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41DNXcn023283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 09:23:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41DN7qn090758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 07:23:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41DN4I5028570; Tue, 1 May 2007 07:23:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail10.tpgi.com.au (mail10.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.147]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41DMxQT028501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 07:23:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-244-221-113-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.244.221.113]) by mail10.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l41DMu7l004000 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 23:22:58 +1000 Message-ID: <001f01c78bf3$d487eca0$71ddf4dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 23:22:54 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Content-Disposition: X-PCToolsMIME: Updated by PC Tools Mime Parser 1.0.0.4 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=20% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5522ec07-6555-40f3-9901-9780bbf31999 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46373F55.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 09:23:37 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cin" To: "h-cost" Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 11:08 AM Subject: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? >I just love starting this thread... such interesting answers. > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com well right now she's only wearing a corset and a couple of petticoats while I work on gauging (aka cartridge pleating but much smaller pleats) the skirt of my c.1850s sheer cotton ballgown. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ E-mail message checked by PC Tools Spyware Doctor (5.0.0.182) Database version: 5.07200 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 09:26:33 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41DQX9o002943 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 09:26:33 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41DQJwf025514 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 09:26:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41DPpbF090978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 07:25:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41DPptk030331; Tue, 1 May 2007 07:25:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.200]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41DPmH3030260 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 07:25:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (mstr4a.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [10.240.4.4]) by mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JHD009636MPLTT0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 01 May 2007 09:25:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.240.3.211] (Forwarded-For: 192.135.209.8, [10.240.3.211]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Tue, 01 May 2007 13:25:37 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 13:25:37 +0000 (GMT) From: purplkat@optonline.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? In-reply-to: <016801c78b93$2eb31490$0200a8c0@boris> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal References: <016801c78b93$2eb31490$0200a8c0@boris> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=12% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: e162036c-c6e1-453b-86f8-e3487c3ca04c X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46373FFB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 09:26:23 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO If anyone has a suit coat sz 52, waist 48 male dummy -- I will GLADLY take it off your hands. Hubby won't stand still long enough and usually wants to see the back of stuff I'm making for him... (sigh) Katheryne ----- Original Message ----- From: Carmen Beaudry > > I think I need a boyfriend for Yasmine.....anyone got a male > dummy about size 42 cheap? > > Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 09:29:41 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41DTf6s003142 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 09:29:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41DTRYr011951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 09:29:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41DSdaF091258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 07:28:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41DSbBO032008; Tue, 1 May 2007 07:28:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms048pub.verizon.net (vms048pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.48]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41DSX0f031962 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 07:28:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from owner85a4f9e93 ([162.83.119.134]) by vms048.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JHD007DH6RCLK37@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 01 May 2007 08:28:25 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 09:28:24 -0400 From: "Ron Carnegie" Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Queen, The Queen To: "Historical Costume" Message-id: <00a601c78bf4$98f1e820$0400000a@owner85a4f9e93> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <006501c78bae$2e800260$6a00a8c0@momlaptop> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2c4c8191-1d3f-41b6-bc5c-2cb23621075b X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 463740B7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 09:29:31 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Oh all right then.... She will arrive in Williamsburg Thursday night. She is staying at te Williamburg Inn. She will enjoy a carriage ride through the historic area on friday, and address people at the College of William and Mary. Later she will be at nthe two Jamestown Parks. I will be escorting her as part of an honor guard at Jamestowne Settlement. Ron Carnegie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 1:04 AM Subject: [h-cost] The Queen, The Queen Oh well, you can't win them all. Queen Elizabeth II is coming to Richmond, VA Thursday for the 400th Anniversary of Jamestown. Last Friday, it was announced that she would be at the Capital on Thursday, May 3. And that the Queen would be receiving 108 people in representation of the original 108 Jamestown Colonists. The Commonwealth of Virginia had a lottery today to be one of the 108 people. Darn, I didn't win. But my daughter, son, and I are going to the Capital to see the Queen give a speech. Hopefully we can get close enough to take photos. The Queen will be going to Jamestown next week. LOL! I wonder if the Queen is going to the NASCAR race in Richmond this weekend. For more info about the Queen's visit and Jamestown's 400th Anniversary go to: http://queensvisit.governor.virginia.gov/home.asp http://www.americas400thanniversary.com/ Maybe our Williamsburg h-costumers can give info about the Queen's visit there. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 09:42:01 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41Dg1iQ003788 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 09:42:01 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41Dfl5R030936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 09:41:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41Df04W092574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 07:41:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41DewTb039774; Tue, 1 May 2007 07:40:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41DeuWx039704 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 07:40:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.d64.7b45749 (29678) for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 09:40:47 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 09:40:45 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Queen, The Queen To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5365 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5184a12d-1c3b-432d-b5f8-558f27c53878 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 4637439B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 09:41:51 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/1/2007 9:28:53 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, r.carnegie@verizon.net writes: I will be escorting her as part of an honor guard at Jamestowne Settlement. That is indeed an honor. And of course she will be visiting the British Embassy here in Washington--they are getting the garden spiffed up for her visit, as she is to plant a tree. And I think there is a state dinner, too. (Did you know that when the Prime Minister visits, it is not a State dinner, because s/he is not, technically, head of state?) Ann Wass ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 09:51:18 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41DpHhw004260 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 09:51:17 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41Dp3VP013264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 09:51:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41DnoTT093851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 07:49:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41Dnmu4045257; Tue, 1 May 2007 07:49:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pony.uvm.edu (pony.uvm.edu [132.198.101.202]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41DnhYd045193 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 07:49:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from [132.198.126.57] ([132.198.126.57]) by pony.uvm.edu (8.13.7/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l41DnhO4012224 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 09:49:43 -0400 Message-ID: <46374577.6010702@uvm.edu> Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 09:49:43 -0400 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need fabric selection advice References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=17% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2d0d3052-1087-4c83-a008-db77d35398f2 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463745C7.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 09:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Wool! Wool is always right. When lined with light/handkerchief linen it is especially wonderful--warm when it's cold out, and breathable and surprisingly wearable even in the heat. If you can find a nice smooth worsted wool gabardine (just a regular gabardine, not the one called tricotine, or any of the new ones with lycra) it washes with hardly any shrinkage and looks great for years. I'll second the comment about modern silks: the current fashion is for soft and flowing, or, as in the case of dupionis and chantungs, firm and slubby. Either way they are not ideal for this period. - Hope TeaRoseS@aol.com wrote: > > > Hello. Rank amateur that I am, I need some advice about selecting fabric for > my Tudor wardrobe (1530-1560ish) from you textile experts. FashionFabrics > has silk twill on sale and I was wondering if it would be appropriate for my > period, and if so, what for? > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 10:09:53 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41E9rqL005322 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 10:09:53 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41E9dfR000693 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 10:09:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41E8xsZ096264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 08:08:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41E8vpM059360; Tue, 1 May 2007 08:08:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eastrmmtao107.cox.net (eastrmmtao107.cox.net [68.230.240.59]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41E8rfC059188 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 08:08:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyanne@quik.com) Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by eastrmmtao107.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.05.02.00 201-2174-114-20060621) with ESMTP id <20070501140847.SUMV16669.eastrmmtao107.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 10:08:47 -0400 Received: from ANNESCOMPUTER ([70.160.213.140]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id tq8n1W00Z32JwDy0000000; Tue, 01 May 2007 10:08:47 -0400 From: "Anne Moeller" To: "'Historical Costume'" References: Subject: RE: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 10:08:46 -0400 Message-ID: <005501c78bfa$3bca0a50$0200a8c0@ANNESCOMPUTER> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Thread-Index: AceL2xIIO7JOMrxWT9m2zRjP3YTxNgAHxc6w X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=53% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: bbc8ee5c-2348-4ee0-8011-1265327da00b X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 46374A23.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 10:09:43 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO OMG!!! How many do you have? Anne -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Debloughcostumes@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 6:22 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? right now one's wearing a toile for a prom dress one's wearing assorted bits of child sized tudor clothing I'm doing for a museum one's wearing a tuodor fencing doublet I'm doing for fun one's wearing an original 30s silk velvet bolero jacket I'm restoring and another two are wearing the beginnings of dresses being made for parties - one for a friend will eventuallly be an 18th c saque, and one for me will be some sort of victorian or edwardian dress for a days of the raj party the rest are shamelessly naked :o) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/782 - Release Date: 5/1/2007 2:10 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/782 - Release Date: 5/1/2007 2:10 AM _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 10:17:27 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41EHRuQ005798 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 10:17:27 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41EHDZg011172 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 10:17:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41EFLSc097181 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 08:15:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41EFKsU063989; Tue, 1 May 2007 08:15:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep34.mail.dk (fep34.mail.dk [80.160.76.198]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41EFFjq063872 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 08:15:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep46.mail.dk ([195.41.46.229]) by fep34.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070501141510.FUEM28934.fep34.mail.dk@fep46.mail.dk> for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 16:15:10 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.20.178]) by fep46.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070501141509.WUSL1379.fep46.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 16:15:09 +0200 Message-ID: <000a01c78bfb$2f5dff50$b214a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 16:15:32 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep46.mail.dk from [80.161.20.178] at Tue, 1 May 2007 16:15:06 +0200 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=20% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] i cant deside X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a1dacdd1-db6b-46cd-9a6a-0e3bb8133731 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 46374BE9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 10:17:17 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi, As you all responded me so bravely i have uploaded a new photo how i want to make it. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sofie3-36.htm Its as i told you late last night made with 2 rows of stitching each side of the center and with the narrow goldtrim. It raises in the edges and gets dimentional as i wanted. Thankyou all for your nice responses.......... Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 10:24:43 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41EOhU2006178 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 10:24:43 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41EOT3a005715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 10:24:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41EMmWn098094 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 08:22:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41EMj8d069087; Tue, 1 May 2007 08:22:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sys30.mail.msu.edu (sys30.mail.msu.edu [35.9.75.130]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41EMgw6069060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 08:22:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from osermart@msu.edu) Received: from osermart by sys30.mail.msu.edu with local (Exim 4.63 #1) id 1HitFa-0007wg-62 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 01 May 2007 10:22:42 -0400 References: <200705011325.l41DPrRo030359@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200705011325.l41DPrRo030359@net.indra.com> From: "Martha Oser" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 10:22:42 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Virus: None found by Clam AV X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=50% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: OT--Q for professors X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a824f75b-fb1e-4307-a573-a985b930277f X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 46374D9D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 10:24:32 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Greetings! I have a Master's Degree in Art History and I'm currently teaching at a local community college. My path to professorship was basically that there are very few other choices out there for a person with an Art History degree. Yes, there's museum work, but that really wasn't my cup of tea when I was in school. If your husband is at all considering getting a PhD, I would encourage him to keep that as his goal. Most institutions of higher education will want a PhD to hire someone for a tenure-track position. Even my community college put "PhD preferred" on the position notice for the full-time art historian job last year. At most four-year colleges and universities, it's "PhD required" to even be considered for a faculty job. That being said, if he can get in at a local community college, this is a great way for him to get his foot in the door in terms of teaching. It will look great on his resume for the future and will also give him a sense of whether teaching is what he _really_ wants to do. Perhaps he can teach for a while at a community college and then start his PhD in a few years? What he can do is look around at the websites of your local colleges and universities. Most of them have job listings posted online and he can look at the position descriptions and requirements and see what each school is looking for in terms of qualifications. He can also call the HR departments as you suggested, if he has specific questions about a particular school. I don't think it's important that he get his final degree from the school at which he eventually wishes to teach. In fact, it's the other way around - most schools want to see a diverse background - they want to hire people who have been other places and had other experiences that the new hire can bring into their community. Good luck to you and your student-husband! Best, Helena > I know we have a handful of professors on this list, and hopefully at least > one of you can give me some input! Please feel free to take any responses > off-list. > > The husband, Thomas, has decided that his ideal career is that of an > electrical engineering or math professor. Right now, he's only got his > masters (or will have at the end of the summer), and since he's been working > full-time as an ee while also attending classes at WUSTL for his masters, > he's a bit reluctant to go straight into getting his PhD. (I, too, am a bit > reluctant to spend who knows how many more years of only seeing him on > weekends.) However, most community colleges and a few 4-year institutions > are willing to hire instructors with only a masters, especially when the > potential instructor also has some non-academic work experience in the field > he wants to teach. The husband likes the idea of teaching at a community > college for a while rather than waiting to get his PhD, though he would > prefer to wind up as a tenured PhD at a 4-year institution. As a first > step, he hopes to be a part-time instructor at a local college, while still > working full-time at the job he has now. > > Those few acquaintances I have who have become professors got into it by > basically becoming professional students, and that's not a path Thomas is > likely to take. (If nothing else, I'm no longer capable of putting him > through school! And oy, we're almost done paying off the last batch of > student loans...) So, we're trying to figure out a plan of attack for > Operation Become A Professor In Montana Or Wyoming. > > So much for the background. My questions are very general: what path did > you take to become a professor? What other paths have you seen successfully > navigated? What would you advise Thomas to do, and what would you advise > him NOT to do? How important is it to get your PhD from the > college/university where you hope to teach? Who should he talk to--for > example, would it be a waste of time for him to call up some HR departments > and ask them these sorts of questions, while he's still in the planning > stage? Is it a good idea for him to get a bit of teaching experience in > wherever possible, as with the part-time instructor plan? And so on, and so > forth, and the like, etcetera. > > Thanks in advance to anyone who can help! > -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 10:44:15 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41EiF8l007280 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 10:44:15 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41Ei0uS029057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 10:44:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41EhUOg001133 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 08:43:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41EhRIS084896; Tue, 1 May 2007 08:43:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.192.83]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41EhOX9084798 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 08:43:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from rmailcenter15.comcast.net ([204.127.197.125]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20070501144318m13003aeq0e>; Tue, 1 May 2007 14:43:18 +0000 Received: from [140.142.235.230] by rmailcenter15.comcast.net; Tue, 01 May 2007 14:43:17 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] i cant deside Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 14:43:17 +0000 Message-Id: <050120071443.9764.46375205000AE1740000262422058861720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 85c65ba8-aa9d-4f61-ad49-a2df7e5323cb X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 46375231.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 10:44:04 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I think it looks Perfect for the look you are trying for! Thank you for sharing!! Gia -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > Hi, > As you all responded me so bravely i have uploaded a new photo how i want to > make it. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sofie3-36.htm > Its as i told you late last night made with 2 rows of stitching each side of > the center and with the narrow goldtrim. > It raises in the edges and gets dimentional as i wanted. > Thankyou all for your nice responses.......... > > Bjarne > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 10:46:47 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41EklpE007413 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 10:46:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41EkWql023192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 10:46:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41Ejhlk001423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 08:45:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41EjhBk086770; Tue, 1 May 2007 08:45:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.192.81]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41EjdR3086633 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 08:45:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from rmailcenter01.comcast.net ([204.127.197.111]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20070501144533m11005ic5qe>; Tue, 1 May 2007 14:45:33 +0000 Received: from [140.142.235.230] by rmailcenter01.comcast.net; Tue, 01 May 2007 14:45:32 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Queen, The Queen Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 14:45:32 +0000 Message-Id: <050120071445.23760.4637528C000DD0F000005CD022007374780809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 0da3e31b-0bd9-434d-aee5-a04ae695ce14 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463752C9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 10:46:36 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO *sigh* You lucky person! Gia -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Ron Carnegie" > Oh all right then.... > > > She will arrive in Williamsburg Thursday night. She is staying at te > Williamburg Inn. She will enjoy a carriage ride through the historic area > on friday, and address people at the College of William and Mary. Later she > will be at nthe two Jamestown Parks. I will be escorting her as part of an > honor guard at Jamestowne Settlement. > > Ron Carnegie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Penny Ladnier" > To: "h-costume" > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 1:04 AM > Subject: [h-cost] The Queen, The Queen > > > Oh well, you can't win them all. Queen Elizabeth II is coming to Richmond, > VA Thursday for the 400th Anniversary of Jamestown. Last Friday, it was > announced that she would be at the Capital on Thursday, May 3. And that the > Queen would be receiving 108 people in representation of the original 108 > Jamestown Colonists. The Commonwealth of Virginia had a lottery today to be > one of the 108 people. Darn, I didn't win. But my daughter, son, and I are > going to the Capital to see the Queen give a speech. Hopefully we can get > close enough to take photos. The Queen will be going to Jamestown next > week. LOL! I wonder if the Queen is going to the NASCAR race in Richmond > this weekend. > For more info about the Queen's visit and Jamestown's 400th Anniversary go > to: > http://queensvisit.governor.virginia.gov/home.asp > http://www.americas400thanniversary.com/ > > Maybe our Williamsburg h-costumers can give info about the Queen's visit > there. > > Penny Ladnier, > Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumelibrary.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > www.costumeencyclopedia.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 11:05:46 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41F5kTc008442 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 11:05:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41F5WCY029621 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 11:05:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41F3ZgP004355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 09:03:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41F3UCH000954; Tue, 1 May 2007 09:03:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.141]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l41F3Qbd000850 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 09:03:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 5787 invoked from network); 1 May 2007 15:03:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.162.141 with login) by smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2007 15:03:20 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: VJFXgHYVM1mwmOSRgqin_bGJlmTyCEGB2waq08ucVpauAYny Message-ID: <005f01c78c01$d4ed83e0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "H-Costume" Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 11:03:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] brightening bullion tassel? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7e214420-9836-4fa6-9f3d-eb49abaf14d2 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 4637573C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 11:05:35 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO What would you folks suggest (if anything) for brightening a presently very darkly tarnished Ph.D. tassel made of bullion braid? Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 12:55:57 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41GtviI014433 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:55:57 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41Gth7n017754 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 12:55:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41Gs2tm026625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 10:54:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41GrqxQ002823; Tue, 1 May 2007 10:53:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32713.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32713.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.26]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l41GrmSq002627 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 10:53:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 6645 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2007 16:53:42 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ZlkXf8DLP74iENZrcqvlzXaNx2xPJ8Rh0v0xcEC9sGFgSLlnyIE93hsy00M59bKm2BpJoiOkGJKQq8Cl/Gd9mw+0wVnSPZdkNYtQNGRdGLJar6eqqAd3UA+GFLCR0uEOlDxthRm3zjO+BF3YWtLCn8q2lG1FuMjiI2oPxpXjW1c= ; Message-ID: <20070501165342.6643.qmail@web32713.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: fjIpbSUVM1m.elyWjfqlrJCJj8v_oiW5.kQh2UrMx7kL1iCRhArffuKI3hevmRtSKmbIHhNnO7LfIybW00hP7D1HQIukLPXhuftJhGHVn0MC2TiTx6w- Received: from [208.179.44.218] by web32713.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 May 2007 09:53:42 PDT Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 09:53:42 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] i cant deside To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000a01c78bfb$2f5dff50$b214a150@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=17% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: e51bd61d-d894-43e6-9c78-a8982e039f47 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4637710F.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 12:55:47 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO That's it! Striking and elegant. MaggiRos --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > As you all responded me so bravely i have uploaded a > new photo how i want to > make it. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sofie3-36.htm > Its as i told you late last night made with 2 rows > of stitching each side of > the center and with the narrow goldtrim. > It raises in the edges and gets dimentional as i > wanted. > Thankyou all for your nice responses.......... > > Bjarne > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 13:01:13 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41H1Dsh014642 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:01:13 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41H0xsL013989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 13:01:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41GxmSx028730 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 10:59:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41Gxhvd009535; Tue, 1 May 2007 10:59:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from server022.dfw.nationwide.net (server022.dfw.nationwide.net [206.123.129.85]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l41FmSIn038865 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 09:48:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 27152 invoked from network); 1 May 2007 15:48:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO D1V3BRB1) (76.102.49.117) by server022.dfw.nationwide.net with SMTP; Tue, 01 May 2007 15:48:27 +0000 From: "Diana Habra" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 08:47:49 -0700 Message-ID: <000301c78c08$13338900$0d00a8c0@D1V3BRB1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: <006501c78bae$2e800260$6a00a8c0@momlaptop> Thread-Index: AceLrkt2zkVxS4FjS0miGNPR3y8pOAAWTbIg X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=33% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Speaking of Williamsburg.... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: da66fd23-4bcd-4106-9075-9687da827b17 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 4637724B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 13:01:03 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I was there recently and had the pleasure of meeting with Linda Baumgarten, the curator of clothing at textiles at Williamsburg. She actually volunteered this information (although I was planning to ask anyway) and I think people on this list might be interested: There WILL be a reprint of Costume Close-Up and I think she indicated that it will happen within about a year. Sorry to those folks who are trying to get upwards of $200 for it on EBAY but those of us in the know don't need to pay that. So if you wanted a copy but didn't get one on the first go-around, you will have another chance! Diana -- www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" "Be the change you want to see in the world" --Ghandi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 13:34:16 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41HYGb0016244 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:34:16 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41HY2VF002877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 13:34:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41HRqD2039160 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 11:27:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41HRmii041372; Tue, 1 May 2007 11:27:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41HDfOt025717 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 11:13:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 317D2CDA4E for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:13:30 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <46377565.80602@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 12:14:13 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Speaking of Williamsburg.... References: <000301c78c08$13338900$0d00a8c0@D1V3BRB1> In-Reply-To: <000301c78c08$13338900$0d00a8c0@D1V3BRB1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f69d4f4c-c131-470a-855b-12fda7ba1312 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 46377A0A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 13:34:06 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Diana Habra wrote: > > There WILL be a reprint of Costume Close-Up and I think she indicated that > it will happen within about a year. Thanks for sharing the good news. What I want to see back in print is _Fitting and Proper_. I tracked down one copy and it was in such bad shape (ripped cover, soiled interior) I refused to buy it. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 13:39:06 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41Hd6gc016483 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:39:06 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41HcqUg026694 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 13:38:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41Hc5pp043181 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 11:38:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41Hc29R052641; Tue, 1 May 2007 11:38:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.238]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41Hc0OM052582 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 11:38:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id m7so2426411nzf for ; Tue, 01 May 2007 10:37:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=kvSHvVKrGaXfF3bbWteRkCGXqBJNOA2b1QUNSW7xSODHYbDU82wPKEJNyqD9/n4rpHlSpeDL3r8HAlVvmO0ZGfcLy4OF+pKSXmbOL3aMBb9S3TIpEWeBL8Ff/BXuDD6WvbqCs0flGibjnjLCXDeYSbCxXWpGWRftKUoCPfDejK0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=SsHMF5blTCde4u227WGp/KxF4He6JdXI8v+AHUD+uooMwtt/Vu0wD01BQWe2eAMPIgqZ1W6TplDuG24J7WUaJbIK+Xg+dHZaMwouJHQbjvXmbRpy0ya/acNzjcXFvCMWwKjBwlXw4ZdCKHHj8z7H28AaMgf/8UGdoucuQYFSFFU= Received: by 10.114.106.1 with SMTP id e1mr875467wac.1178041079307; Tue, 01 May 2007 10:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.131.18 with HTTP; Tue, 1 May 2007 10:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 10:37:59 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9e88f6eb-5f1b-4e55-ab22-bad08943ffd5 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 46377B2C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 13:38:56 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO >Re: What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? Euprosnia has on the lining of my next 1848-50 ballgown as I mark the waist & shoulder seams. It's going to be coral with some sort of braid across the bosom a la militaire. This gown's for the Danse Libre performance at the end of the month. www.DanseLibre.org Do come & see us if you have a chance. Adonis is wearing a black silk gilet (c 1350s), it goes under a pourpoint) and a large c 1890s woman's hat. His sense of fashion is somewhat lacking. Anne, Kathryn & Charles (the 3 heads) are wearing Isabel of Austria's velvet & pearl hat (c 1590), a "kiss-me-quick" bonnet adorned with a spray of green parrot feathers (c 1840s) and a tall red velvet hennin, veil and a bee pin (c 1470). --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 13:45:35 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41HjZYe016849 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:45:35 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41HjLvh011956 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 13:45:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41HgITM045004 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 11:42:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41HgGTC057470; Tue, 1 May 2007 11:42:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32714.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32714.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.27]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l41HgBKU057294 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 11:42:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 89566 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2007 17:42:06 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=kMICSiUd7uQbLaS/hZdgrg43tIqQWZMhYatbPfKew1cnjerukRO6Xjz9dtvcJzDNI9hmVz9MtIX5ZvRydR8AFqaJQeBtpakMI2bMogCXoet4YuWbykR+2O89sNgMzAdbxggkdfWoDahdr9+pjslGS3AQLBMFvFQezLgtoVW5Yqw=; X-YMail-OSG: 5bzDUBEVM1nkJq.bB0spxsH2AH9AHU8ZIiQ1lDSC5tpT_8hwOXJSKJwin9J6IQr7Yqqx_2xjyg-- Received: from [208.179.44.218] by web32714.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 May 2007 10:42:06 PDT Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 10:42:06 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Queen, The Queen To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <00a601c78bf4$98f1e820$0400000a@owner85a4f9e93> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <203613.89280.qm@web32714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=16% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: aa184eb5-7a52-4915-8daf-6e0d3de25655 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 46377CB1.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 13:45:25 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Wow, Ron, that is SO cool! And after all, you have some previous experience ;-) Maggie --- Ron Carnegie wrote: > Oh all right then.... > > > She will arrive in Williamsburg Thursday night. > She is staying at te > Williamburg Inn. She will enjoy a carriage ride > through the historic area > on friday, and address people at the College of > William and Mary. Later she > will be at nthe two Jamestown Parks. I will be > escorting her as part of an > honor guard at Jamestowne Settlement. > > Ron Carnegie > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 14:07:43 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41I7hDH018219 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 14:07:43 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41I7SmA019427 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 14:07:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41I6jrX049129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 12:06:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41I6hM5079298; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:06:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32712.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32712.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.25]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l41I6cnb079165 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:06:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 43375 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2007 18:06:33 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=23gnGdXq7XoYuEaoOin+8qC8Gr/dYmCwdf/iXyLB96BT7eyBMfZSJ491F9wh3IUn/1lqzCSdusDEXDlYLjp2rsDQEW+DGl9GiLETsS8uzqOF08AgDE37/Ju4EaBEft0iv2gseABwNd+BlFXAaODk45tiuG9JQJM6gIUPCNjgiLg=; X-YMail-OSG: dM8Ob.oVM1klHhaWLG.bYSJSbcHyYhUTjWjd4fbO0kbBYL9BjXs6R2FVbNcj3Ey.SnkyyPtyBg-- Received: from [208.179.44.218] by web32712.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 May 2007 11:06:33 PDT Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 11:06:33 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need fabric selection advice To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <46374577.6010702@uvm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <417361.42674.qm@web32712.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: net.indra.com 1290; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9c638116-ae90-4e58-94fb-9ec082d883e3 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463781E0.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 14:07:32 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hope's right. I can see using white (silk) twill for a nobleman's shirt--and it would be spectacular--but not much else. I use china silk for my own Court shifts, since they're usually doubling as partlets, plus it just feels so nice! MaggiRos --- Hope Greenberg wrote: > I'll second the comment about modern silks: the > current fashion is for > soft and flowing, or, as in the case of dupionis and > chantungs, firm and > slubby. Either way they are not ideal for this > period. > > - Hope > > > TeaRoseS@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Hello. Rank amateur that I am, I need some advice > about selecting fabric for > > my Tudor wardrobe (1530-1560ish) from you textile > experts. FashionFabrics > > has silk twill on sale and I was wondering if it > would be appropriate for my > > period, and if so, what for? > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 14:07:42 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41I7cBs018208 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 14:07:38 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41I7NCd004656 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 14:07:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41I6TEl049085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 12:06:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41I6LKv078980; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:06:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from c-spam-01.awin.com (mail.disposal.com [204.13.216.10]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41I6GXw078747 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:06:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tori.Ruhl@awin.com) Received: from AZ_AWINDO1_INET3.awin.com (unverified [10.200.20.102]) by c-spam-01.awin.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.35.480.0) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 11:06:06 -0700 X-Modus-BlackList: 10.200.20.102=OK;Tori.Ruhl@awin.com=OK X-Modus-RBL: 10.200.20.102=OK X-Modus-Trusted: 10.200.20.102=NO Received: from INET3-MTA by AZ_AWINDO1_INET3.awin.com with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 01 May 2007 11:06:06 -0700 Message-Id: <46371F100200005E0001BE87@AZ_AWINDO1_INET3.awin.com> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 11:05:52 -0700 From: "Tori Ruhl" To: References: <200705011742.l41HgMcU057579@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200705011742.l41HgMcU057579@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: net.indra.com 1290; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=1% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 3b0bc1a1-4c99-44a3-9f3b-9f1270fb7414 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 463781DB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 14:07:28 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Mine is currently wearing what will hopefully turn out to be a doublet for = my husband..*lol* It was my first attempt at draping a pattern, so I'm going to reserve = judgment on it until it's done.=20 - Victoria >>> 5/1/2007 1:42:33 PM >>> Send h-costume mailing list submissions to h-costume@mail.indra.com=20 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume=20 or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to h-costume-request@mail.indra.com=20 You can reach the person managing the list at h-costume-owner@mail.indra.com=20 When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of h-costume digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: The Queen, The Queen (Ron Carnegie) 2. Re: The Queen, The Queen (AnnBWass@aol.com) 3. Re: Need fabric selection advice (Hope Greenberg) 4. RE: What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? (Anne Moeller) 5. i cant deside (Bjarne og Leif Drews) 6. Re: OT--Q for professors (Martha Oser) 7. Re: i cant deside (elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) 8. Re: The Queen, The Queen (elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) 9. brightening bullion tassel? (LLOYD MITCHELL) 10. Speaking of Williamsburg.... (Diana Habra) 11. Re: i cant deside (MaggiRos) 12. Re: Speaking of Williamsburg.... (Dawn) 13. Re: What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? (Cin) 14. Re: The Queen, The Queen (MaggiRos) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 09:28:24 -0400 From: "Ron Carnegie" Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Queen, The Queen To: "Historical Costume" Message-ID: <00a601c78bf4$98f1e820$0400000a@owner85a4f9e93> Content-Type: text/plain; format=3Dflowed; charset=3Diso-8859-1; reply-type=3Doriginal Oh all right then.... She will arrive in Williamsburg Thursday night. She is staying at = te=20 Williamburg Inn. She will enjoy a carriage ride through the historic = area=20 on friday, and address people at the College of William and Mary. Later = she=20 will be at nthe two Jamestown Parks. I will be escorting her as part of = an=20 honor guard at Jamestowne Settlement. Ron Carnegie ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 1:04 AM Subject: [h-cost] The Queen, The Queen Oh well, you can't win them all. Queen Elizabeth II is coming to = Richmond,=20 VA Thursday for the 400th Anniversary of Jamestown. Last Friday, it = was=20 announced that she would be at the Capital on Thursday, May 3. And that = the=20 Queen would be receiving 108 people in representation of the original = 108=20 Jamestown Colonists. The Commonwealth of Virginia had a lottery today to = be=20 one of the 108 people. Darn, I didn't win. But my daughter, son, and I = are=20 going to the Capital to see the Queen give a speech. Hopefully we can = get=20 close enough to take photos. The Queen will be going to Jamestown = next=20 week. LOL! I wonder if the Queen is going to the NASCAR race in = Richmond=20 this weekend. For more info about the Queen's visit and Jamestown's 400th Anniversary = go=20 to: http://queensvisit.governor.virginia.gov/home.asp=20 http://www.americas400thanniversary.com/=20 Maybe our Williamsburg h-costumers can give info about the Queen's = visit=20 there. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com=20 www.costumelibrary.com=20 www.costumeclassroom.com=20 www.costumeencyclopedia.com=20 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com=20 http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume=20 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 09:40:45 EDT From: AnnBWass@aol.com=20 Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Queen, The Queen To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" =20 In a message dated 5/1/2007 9:28:53 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, =20 r.carnegie@verizon.net writes: I will be escorting her as part of an=20 honor guard at Jamestowne Settlement. That is indeed an honor.=20 =20 And of course she will be visiting the British Embassy here in =20 Washington--they are getting the garden spiffed up for her visit, as she = is to plant a=20 tree. And I think there is a state dinner, too. (Did you know that when = the=20 Prime Minister visits, it is not a State dinner, because s/he is not,=20 technically, head of state?) =20 Ann Wass ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.co= m. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 09:49:43 -0400 From: Hope Greenberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need fabric selection advice To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <46374577.6010702@uvm.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1; format=3Dflowed Wool! Wool is always right. When lined with light/handkerchief linen it=20 is especially wonderful--warm when it's cold out, and breathable and=20 surprisingly wearable even in the heat. If you can find a nice smooth=20 worsted wool gabardine (just a regular gabardine, not the one called=20 tricotine, or any of the new ones with lycra) it washes with hardly any=20 shrinkage and looks great for years. I'll second the comment about modern silks: the current fashion is for=20 soft and flowing, or, as in the case of dupionis and chantungs, firm = and=20 slubby. Either way they are not ideal for this period. - Hope TeaRoseS@aol.com wrote: > =20 > =20 > Hello. Rank amateur that I am, I need some advice about selecting = fabric for=20 > my Tudor wardrobe (1530-1560ish) from you textile experts. FashionFabric= s=20 > has silk twill on sale and I was wondering if it would be appropriate = for my=20 > period, and if so, what for?=20 > =20 > =20 ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 10:08:46 -0400 From: "Anne Moeller" Subject: RE: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? To: "'Historical Costume'" Message-ID: <005501c78bfa$3bca0a50$0200a8c0@ANNESCOMPUTER> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"windows-1250" OMG!!! How many do you have? Anne -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Debloughcostumes@aol.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 6:22 AM To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? =20 right now one's wearing a toile for a prom dress =20 one's wearing assorted bits of child sized tudor clothing I'm doing for a = =20 museum =20 one's wearing a tuodor fencing doublet I'm doing for fun =20 one's wearing an original 30s silk velvet bolero jacket I'm restoring =20 and another two are wearing the beginnings of dresses being made for parties=20 - one for a friend will eventuallly be an 18th c saque, and one for me = will be some sort of victorian or edwardian dress for a days of the raj party =20 the rest are shamelessly naked :o) =20 =20 =20 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com=20 http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume=20 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition.=20 Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/782 - Release Date: 5/1/2007 = 2:10 AM =20 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition.=20 Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/782 - Release Date: 5/1/2007 = 2:10 AM =20 ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 16:15:32 +0200 From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Subject: [h-cost] i cant deside To: Message-ID: <000a01c78bfb$2f5dff50$b214a150@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; format=3Dflowed; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"; reply-type=3Doriginal Hi, As you all responded me so bravely i have uploaded a new photo how i want = to=20 make it. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sofie3-36.htm=20 Its as i told you late last night made with 2 rows of stitching each side = of=20 the center and with the narrow goldtrim. It raises in the edges and gets dimentional as i wanted. Thankyou all for your nice responses.......... Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk=20 http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/=20 ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 10:22:42 -0400 From: "Martha Oser" Subject: [h-cost] Re: OT--Q for professors To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=3Dflowed; charset=3D"utf-8" Greetings!=20 I have a Master's Degree in Art History and I'm currently teaching at a=20 local community college. My path to professorship was basically that = there=20 are very few other choices out there for a person with an Art History=20 degree. Yes, there's museum work, but that really wasn't my cup of tea = when=20 I was in school.=20 If your husband is at all considering getting a PhD, I would encourage = him=20 to keep that as his goal. Most institutions of higher education will want = a=20 PhD to hire someone for a tenure-track position. Even my community = college=20 put "PhD preferred" on the position notice for the full-time art = historian=20 job last year. At most four-year colleges and universities, it's "PhD=20 required" to even be considered for a faculty job.=20 That being said, if he can get in at a local community college, this is = a=20 great way for him to get his foot in the door in terms of teaching. It = will=20 look great on his resume for the future and will also give him a sense = of=20 whether teaching is what he _really_ wants to do. Perhaps he can teach = for=20 a while at a community college and then start his PhD in a few years?=20 What he can do is look around at the websites of your local colleges = and=20 universities. Most of them have job listings posted online and he can = look=20 at the position descriptions and requirements and see what each school = is=20 looking for in terms of qualifications. He can also call the HR department= s=20 as you suggested, if he has specific questions about a particular = school.=20 I don't think it's important that he get his final degree from the school = at=20 which he eventually wishes to teach. In fact, it's the other way around = -=20 most schools want to see a diverse background - they want to hire people = who=20 have been other places and had other experiences that the new hire can = bring=20 into their community.=20 Good luck to you and your student-husband!=20 Best,=20 Helena=20 > I know we have a handful of professors on this list, and hopefully at = least=20 > one of you can give me some input! Please feel free to take any = responses=20 > off-list.=20 >=20 > The husband, Thomas, has decided that his ideal career is that of an=20 > electrical engineering or math professor. Right now, he's only got = his=20 > masters (or will have at the end of the summer), and since he's been = working=20 > full-time as an ee while also attending classes at WUSTL for his = masters,=20 > he's a bit reluctant to go straight into getting his PhD. (I, too, am a = bit=20 > reluctant to spend who knows how many more years of only seeing him = on=20 > weekends.) However, most community colleges and a few 4-year institution= s=20 > are willing to hire instructors with only a masters, especially when = the=20 > potential instructor also has some non-academic work experience in the = field=20 > he wants to teach. The husband likes the idea of teaching at a = community=20 > college for a while rather than waiting to get his PhD, though he = would=20 > prefer to wind up as a tenured PhD at a 4-year institution. As a = first=20 > step, he hopes to be a part-time instructor at a local college, while = still=20 > working full-time at the job he has now.=20 >=20 > Those few acquaintances I have who have become professors got into it = by=20 > basically becoming professional students, and that's not a path Thomas = is=20 > likely to take. (If nothing else, I'm no longer capable of putting = him=20 > through school! And oy, we're almost done paying off the last batch = of=20 > student loans...) So, we're trying to figure out a plan of attack = for=20 > Operation Become A Professor In Montana Or Wyoming.=20 >=20 > So much for the background. My questions are very general: what path = did=20 > you take to become a professor? What other paths have you seen = successfully=20 > navigated? What would you advise Thomas to do, and what would you = advise=20 > him NOT to do? How important is it to get your PhD from the=20 > college/university where you hope to teach? Who should he talk = to--for=20 > example, would it be a waste of time for him to call up some HR = departments=20 > and ask them these sorts of questions, while he's still in the = planning=20 > stage? Is it a good idea for him to get a bit of teaching experience = in=20 > wherever possible, as with the part-time instructor plan? And so on, = and so=20 > forth, and the like, etcetera.=20 >=20 > Thanks in advance to anyone who can help! > -E House ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 14:43:17 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net=20 Subject: Re: [h-cost] i cant deside To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <050120071443.9764.46375205000AE1740000262422058861720809070E029D0E= 0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> =09 Content-Type: text/plain I think it looks Perfect for the look you are trying for! Thank you for sharing!! Gia -------------- Original message --------------=20 From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" =20 > Hi,=20 > As you all responded me so bravely i have uploaded a new photo how i = want to=20 > make it.=20 > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sofie3-36.htm=20 > Its as i told you late last night made with 2 rows of stitching each = side of=20 > the center and with the narrow goldtrim.=20 > It raises in the edges and gets dimentional as i wanted.=20 > Thankyou all for your nice responses..........=20 >=20 > Bjarne=20 >=20 >=20 > Leif og Bjarne Drews=20 > www.my-drewscostumes.dk=20 >=20 > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________=20 > h-costume mailing list=20 > h-costume@mail.indra.com=20 > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume=20 ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 14:45:32 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net=20 Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Queen, The Queen To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <050120071445.23760.4637528C000DD0F000005CD022007374780809070E029D0= E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> =09 Content-Type: text/plain *sigh* You lucky person! Gia -------------- Original message --------------=20 From: "Ron Carnegie" =20 > Oh all right then....=20 >=20 >=20 > She will arrive in Williamsburg Thursday night. She is staying at te=20 > Williamburg Inn. She will enjoy a carriage ride through the historic = area=20 > on friday, and address people at the College of William and Mary. Later = she=20 > will be at nthe two Jamestown Parks. I will be escorting her as part of = an=20 > honor guard at Jamestowne Settlement.=20 >=20 > Ron Carnegie=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Penny Ladnier"=20 > To: "h-costume"=20 > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 1:04 AM=20 > Subject: [h-cost] The Queen, The Queen=20 >=20 >=20 > Oh well, you can't win them all. Queen Elizabeth II is coming to = Richmond,=20 > VA Thursday for the 400th Anniversary of Jamestown. Last Friday, it = was=20 > announced that she would be at the Capital on Thursday, May 3. And that = the=20 > Queen would be receiving 108 people in representation of the original = 108=20 > Jamestown Colonists. The Commonwealth of Virginia had a lottery today to = be=20 > one of the 108 people. Darn, I didn't win. But my daughter, son, and I = are=20 > going to the Capital to see the Queen give a speech. Hopefully we can = get=20 > close enough to take photos. The Queen will be going to Jamestown = next=20 > week. LOL! I wonder if the Queen is going to the NASCAR race in = Richmond=20 > this weekend.=20 > For more info about the Queen's visit and Jamestown's 400th Anniversary = go=20 > to:=20 > http://queensvisit.governor.virginia.gov/home.asp=20 > http://www.americas400thanniversary.com/=20 >=20 > Maybe our Williamsburg h-costumers can give info about the Queen's = visit=20 > there.=20 >=20 > Penny Ladnier,=20 > Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites=20 > www.costumegallery.com=20 > www.costumelibrary.com=20 > www.costumeclassroom.com=20 > www.costumeencyclopedia.com=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________=20 > h-costume mailing list=20 > h-costume@mail.indra.com=20 > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________=20 > h-costume mailing list=20 > h-costume@mail.indra.com=20 > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume=20 ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 11:03:06 -0400 From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" Subject: [h-cost] brightening bullion tassel? To: "H-Costume" Message-ID: <005f01c78c01$d4ed83e0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> Content-Type: text/plain; format=3Dflowed; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"; reply-type=3Doriginal What would you folks suggest (if anything) for brightening a presently = very=20 darkly tarnished Ph.D. tassel made of bullion braid? Kathleen=20 ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 08:47:49 -0700 From: "Diana Habra" Subject: [h-cost] Speaking of Williamsburg.... To: "'Historical Costume'" Message-ID: <000301c78c08$13338900$0d00a8c0@D1V3BRB1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" I was there recently and had the pleasure of meeting with Linda Baumgarten,= the curator of clothing at textiles at Williamsburg. She actually volunteered this information (although I was planning to ask anyway) and I think people on this list might be interested: There WILL be a reprint of Costume Close-Up and I think she indicated that it will happen within about a year. Sorry to those folks who are trying to get upwards of $200 for it on EBAY but those of us in the know don't need to pay that. So if you wanted a copy but didn't get one on the first go-around, you = will have another chance! Diana -- www.RenaissanceFabrics.net=20 "Everything for the Costumer" =20 "Be the change you want to see in the world" --Ghandi ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 09:53:42 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] i cant deside To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <20070501165342.6643.qmail@web32713.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Diso-8859-1 That's it! Striking and elegant. MaggiRos --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > As you all responded me so bravely i have uploaded a > new photo how i want to=20 > make it. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sofie3-36.htm=20 > Its as i told you late last night made with 2 rows > of stitching each side of=20 > the center and with the narrow goldtrim. > It raises in the edges and gets dimentional as i > wanted. > Thankyou all for your nice responses.......... >=20 > Bjarne >=20 >=20 > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk=20 >=20 > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com=20 > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume=20 >=20 ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 12:14:13 -0500 From: Dawn Subject: Re: [h-cost] Speaking of Williamsburg.... To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <46377565.80602@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii; format=3Dflowed Diana Habra wrote: >=20 > There WILL be a reprint of Costume Close-Up and I think she indicated = that > it will happen within about a year. Thanks for sharing the good news. What I want to see back in print is=20 _Fitting and Proper_. I tracked down one copy and it was in such bad=20 shape (ripped cover, soiled interior) I refused to buy it. Dawn ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 10:37:59 -0700 From: Cin Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? To: h-cost Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1; format=3Dflowed >Re: What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? Euprosnia has on the lining of my next 1848-50 ballgown as I mark the waist & shoulder seams. It's going to be coral with some sort of braid across the bosom a la militaire. This gown's for the Danse Libre performance at the end of the month. www.DanseLibre.org=20 Do come & see us if you have a chance. Adonis is wearing a black silk gilet (c 1350s), it goes under a pourpoint) and a large c 1890s woman's hat. His sense of fashion is somewhat lacking. Anne, Kathryn & Charles (the 3 heads) are wearing Isabel of Austria's velvet & pearl hat (c 1590), a "kiss-me-quick" bonnet adorned with a spray of green parrot feathers (c 1840s) and a tall red velvet hennin, veil and a bee pin (c 1470). --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com=20 ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 10:42:06 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Queen, The Queen To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <203613.89280.qm@web32714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Diso-8859-1 Wow, Ron, that is SO cool! And after all, you have some previous experience ;-) Maggie --- Ron Carnegie wrote: > Oh all right then.... >=20 >=20 > She will arrive in Williamsburg Thursday night.=20 > She is staying at te=20 > Williamburg Inn. She will enjoy a carriage ride > through the historic area=20 > on friday, and address people at the College of > William and Mary. Later she=20 > will be at nthe two Jamestown Parks. I will be > escorting her as part of an=20 > honor guard at Jamestowne Settlement. >=20 > Ron Carnegie >=20 ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com=20 http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume=20 End of h-costume Digest, Vol 6, Issue 202 ***************************************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 14:33:30 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41IXUrB019587 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 14:33:30 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41IXFdF008847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 14:33:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41IWHJ7052473 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 12:32:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41IWGWV001243; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:32:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep33.mail.dk (fep33.mail.dk [80.160.76.197]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41IWBji001130 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:32:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep47.mail.dk ([195.41.46.230]) by fep33.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070501183203.OVUB28501.fep33.mail.dk@fep47.mail.dk> for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 20:32:03 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.164.110.131]) by fep47.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070501183203.PLTL20303.fep47.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 20:32:03 +0200 Message-ID: <000b01c78c1f$12e46020$836ea450@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005f01c78c01$d4ed83e0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> Subject: Re: [h-cost] brightening bullion tassel? Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 20:32:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep47.mail.dk from [80.164.110.131] at Tue, 1 May 2007 20:31:59 +0200 X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=27% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 267bbd98-d631-4d23-b870-e9cbdd6dcd77 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463787EB.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 14:33:19 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO The latest novelty i have heard about cleaning goldwork is to use brushes, where the brushes are made from fine glass threads. This is how they do it on museums. But where to get these brushes, i have not got any ideas. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "H-Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 5:03 PM Subject: [h-cost] brightening bullion tassel? > What would you folks suggest (if anything) for brightening a presently > very darkly tarnished Ph.D. tassel made of bullion braid? > > Kathleen > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 14:44:48 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41Iimc8020088 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 14:44:48 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41IiYQt017249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 14:44:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41IeFdq053573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 12:40:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41IeD81007648; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:40:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from md3.swissinfo.org (md3.swissinfo.org [146.159.4.94]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41Ie8ov007579 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:40:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from swissgirl@swissinfo.org) Received: from mail.swissinfo.org ([194.6.181.33]) by md3.swissinfo.org (md3.swissinfo.org) (MDaemon PRO v9.5.3) with ESMTP id md50026055568.msg for ; Tue, 01 May 2007 20:39:58 +0200 Received: from compaqub (24.216.120.37) by mail.swissinfo.org (7.2.064.1) (authenticated as swissgirl) id 45DAE0BC03287EDD for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 1 May 2007 20:40:04 +0200 Message-ID: <06c101c78c20$2f8843d0$1f00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <417361.42674.qm@web32712.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need fabric selection advice Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 13:40:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Processed: md3.swissinfo.org, Tue, 01 May 2007 20:39:58 +0200 (not processed: spam filter heuristic analysis disabled) X-MDRemoteIP: 194.6.181.33 X-Return-Path: swissgirl@swissinfo.org X-Envelope-From: swissgirl@swissinfo.org X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-MDAV-Processed: md3.swissinfo.org, Tue, 01 May 2007 20:39:59 +0200 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5958729b-5196-40e8-929a-3e89ed2e6d57 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 46378A92.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 14:44:38 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I have some lovely heavy silk twill from FFC in a sort of darkdark emerald green, which I got because A) it's heavy silk, and anytime I see heavy silk I must have it, and B) the husband loves that color. But I absolutely cannot figure out what on earth to do with it. For some reason it screams victorian to me, but it's far too floppy for anything that springs to mind in that era. I'm going to hoard it for a few more years until it starts screaming something more reasonable at me. I can't really picture using any of the silk twills I've seen at FFC working for the outer fabric of a structured Tudor-era gown. However, some of the ribbed silks they sell would work very nicely! For example, I got some silk ottoman from them not too long ago: http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/catalog_itemdetail.aspx?ItmID=AA036 and it is perfect for anything structured. I haven't felt samples of their other ottomans, but they should be at least somewhat similar (though the sueded ones might not be quite right for the era): http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/Catalog_items.aspx?Query=silk%20ottoman Unfortunately, in order to find ribbed silks on the site, you have to know the correct term for that specific fabric, and right now I'm drawing a blank other than ottoman; they don't use any of the obvious terms like ribbed or grosgrain. Mostly, you need to order 1/8 yd as a sample in order to find out what a fabric is like, because fabrics with the same name/description/price/appearance can be wildly different. Also unfortunately, this sort of stuff rarely goes on sale! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 15:16:36 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41JGZuR021566 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 15:16:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41JGLUn013368 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 15:16:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41JFreV059051 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 13:15:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41JFoKS038034; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:15:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s13.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s13.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.85]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41JFjBU037878 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:15:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from praxis_729@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.19.16]) by bay0-omc1-s13.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 1 May 2007 12:15:40 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:15:40 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.19.200 by by109fd.bay109.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 01 May 2007 19:15:39 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.133.199.144] X-Originating-Email: [praxis_729@hotmail.com] X-Sender: praxis_729@hotmail.com From: "Paula Praxis" To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 12:15:39 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2007 19:15:40.0322 (UTC) FILETIME=[1B4F7820:01C78C25] X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=15% Subject: [h-cost] China silk? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 90514050-95d6-4f4b-a2c2-40980805dab0 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 46379205.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 15:16:25 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi everyone, I am preparing to make some drops for a stage production, the directors notes for the set drape call for "China Silk", we are poor so I have a couple of questions 1) what exactly is "china silk"? Is it translucent? Is it opaque? Does it also go by another name? 2) What would be a good same or similar weight fabric I could use? You are all so knowledgeable and great at answering questions, I'm looking forward to hearing from any one with advice. Paula _________________________________________________________________ The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 15:24:43 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41JOhCf021863 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 15:24:43 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41JOTIX021468 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 15:24:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41JNsAR060304 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 13:23:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41JNrjd044749; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:23:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41JNmt6044612 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:23:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.c04.15eb5d04 (29678) for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 15:23:37 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 15:23:37 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] China silk? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5366 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 792d4056-073f-4b38-99ee-d874a2653307 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463793ED.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 15:24:33 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO China silk is very thin, though not sheer, silk that moves and flutters with the slightest breeze. It's shiny and slick. In Balenchine's ballet of "Orpheus" [Stravinsky] when the "Dark Angel" and Orpheus are traveling between the world of the living and the Underworld, a china silk curtain descends. It is amazing to behold..it floats down like a cloud. And then lights are brought up behind its shimmering undulating surface. The effect is like a scrim but not as crisp. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 15:32:39 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41JWdHa022204 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 15:32:39 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41JWPhr007200 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 15:32:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41JVaWt061346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 13:31:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41JVYXZ051928; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:31:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.179]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41JVVHo051881 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:31:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so1787004pyb for ; Tue, 01 May 2007 12:31:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=un4bk95wGng9oZUHAsOeR1UtI6MjDVJjtM79mzPPVDTWM/6E1QroPZQynJcjNpJto4JbOcA/qBAI4/GQ36XOf+YnlDPBxoYz0srh6swAmQGwP87wPPykztC4+W8uKGZjYhqaVOotZtlXD+cbdz2I8s9z9NcRlvVrvb2f/6JEIxo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=pc581zhQCCB8/jtAPwoOt5lTeu6G0ymSnaH0Gs1H1/Ve05CsstlcP5Gdk0aviqTAZwVxngdaNOL8GKHN0ZCBHKR0W+HKAYEkUAV8CNZvmLYkgjAgngFBJ/npcaCj1rCzEZu/MLVqHG4Y9ohqWBMt+sFlcyEfWK6Q/9KwvjQOIpE= Received: by 10.64.53.20 with SMTP id b20mr14395673qba.1178047891627; Tue, 01 May 2007 12:31:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.81.8 with HTTP; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:31:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c0705011231q216b1615wf337006ea5ea9605@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 12:31:31 -0700 From: "Lynn Downward" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] China silk? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ff444ed9-0c13-4e89-b8d5-6aa107c5147f X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 463795C9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 15:32:29 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO China silk sometimes also goes by another name and I'm completely drawing a blank on it. It's usually used for linings or, as MaggieRos just said, Renaissance partlets. There are several weights of china silk but mostly they drape beautifully and have that exquisite silk sheen. May I suggest you go to Dharma Trading (www.dharmatrading.com, I think) and check out their prices and weights. They'll send you swatches for next to nothing. They sell by the yard and by the bolt, so if you need lots for stage drape, their bolt price is fabulous, between $1.50-2.50 per yard depending on weight if I remember correctly. Their quality if great and their shipping is also good. They sell black and white, but the silk is easily dyed to whatever color you need. I'm sure you could also find polyester the same weight and close to the same drape for less, but certainly not by much with Dharma's great prices. LynnD A satisfied customer, I live about 30 minutes away from them (San Rafael, CA) On 5/1/07, Paula Praxis wrote: > Hi everyone, I am preparing to make some drops for a stage production, the > directors notes for the set drape call for "China Silk", we are poor so I > have a couple of questions > 1) what exactly is "china silk"? Is it translucent? Is it opaque? Does it > also go by another name? > 2) What would be a good same or similar weight fabric I could use? > You are all so knowledgeable and great at answering questions, I'm looking > forward to hearing from any one with advice. > Paula > > _________________________________________________________________ > The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. > http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 15:38:22 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41JcMkp022480 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 15:38:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41Jc86D001394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 15:38:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41JbBZi062170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 13:37:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41Jb9Au057086; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:37:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33615.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33615.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.247]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l41Jb7QM056963 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:37:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from slc_fire@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 58988 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2007 19:37:01 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=SR4MNrCwMJ4/ijWoTofisHTh49/yhjr+Lp+xp5dlbDLWOsxQg6nTM2ZH5SSO5ivda28yBy7+REIVrG8x4T6sp1B2E5leVYCXVznBsHvLKEzFj8J28nnXqfmOC2Fq38qrykbDM04REkGXi5E+iGnBd+yM3KrhtvmE+nuimU9JKS4=; X-YMail-OSG: FwcuiaIVM1laFLZe40xR5dE7Zg8iFyx0b3FvcaYa8jBukGieuEFDffBYf0kpjOnNKp1KSOwUF8jh2NcgPv7zABHSn6Usj0P9BTJQ Received: from [66.110.201.67] by web33615.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 May 2007 12:37:01 PDT Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 12:37:01 -0700 (PDT) From: slc_fire Subject: Re: [h-cost] China silk? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <840514.58269.qm@web33615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1a1a669f-d050-4bcc-8022-e62052953fee X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46379720.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 15:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Is that the same as silk habotai? Dharma Trading Co. is a great source for inexpensive silk. You get a greater discount when you buy in bulk bolts. Sheree AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: China silk is very thin, though not sheer, silk that moves and flutters with the slightest breeze. It's shiny and slick. In Balenchine's ballet of "Orpheus" [Stravinsky] when the "Dark Angel" and Orpheus are traveling between the world of the living and the Underworld, a china silk curtain descends. It is amazing to behold..it floats down like a cloud. And then lights are brought up behind its shimmering undulating surface. The effect is like a scrim but not as crisp. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Life may not be the party we hoped for... but while we are here we might as well dance! --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 15:40:23 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41JeNu6022595 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 15:40:23 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41Je9g9010050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 15:40:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41JY4q7061661 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 13:34:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41JY310054255; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:34:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s7.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s7.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.207]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41JXxrp054099 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:34:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from morvren@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.169.40]) by bay0-omc3-s7.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 1 May 2007 12:33:54 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:33:53 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.169.200 by by114fd.bay114.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 01 May 2007 19:33:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.29.47.7] X-Originating-Email: [morvren@hotmail.com] X-Sender: morvren@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: From: "Maureen Conklin" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] China silk? Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 14:33:52 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2007 19:33:53.0968 (UTC) FILETIME=[A72C9B00:01C78C27] X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; bulk rep Body=many rep=12% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a841b2ca-0af9-48e3-ac22-dc5601e32675 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 46379799.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 15:40:13 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO aka "habotai." ================== ~ Twinkle, dammit! ~ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 15:44:32 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41JiVCT022783 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 15:44:31 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41JiGqR020017 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 15:44:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41JhnD4063073 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 13:43:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41Jhl10062768; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:43:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s28.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s28.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.228]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41JhgNm062614 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:43:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from morvren@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.169.28]) by bay0-omc3-s28.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 1 May 2007 12:43:37 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:43:37 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.169.200 by by114fd.bay114.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 01 May 2007 19:43:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.29.47.7] X-Originating-Email: [morvren@hotmail.com] X-Sender: morvren@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <8296995c0705011237n3d1736ecof4818a783f640d4d@mail.gmail.com> From: "Maureen Conklin" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] China silk? Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 14:43:35 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2007 19:43:37.0326 (UTC) FILETIME=[02E1F8E0:01C78C29] X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: net.indra.com 1290; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many rep=10% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 59c1b983-9278-4b45-a040-ae4aa36e3f69 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 46379890.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 15:44:20 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Welcome. I got silk on the brain...sewing my wedding gown. Yarrrrrrr. ;-) ================== ~ Twinkle, dammit! ~ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 15:50:14 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41JoExb023070 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 15:50:14 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41Jo0fx028680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 15:50:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41Jn2PW063728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 13:49:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41Jn1uX067192; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:49:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eagle.uvm.edu (eagle.uvm.edu [132.198.101.203]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41Jmr8c067076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:48:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from [132.198.126.57] ([132.198.126.57]) by eagle.uvm.edu (8.13.7/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l41JmrYi032376 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 15:48:53 -0400 Message-ID: <463799A5.3040104@uvm.edu> Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 15:48:53 -0400 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] China silk? References: <8296995c0705011231q216b1615wf337006ea5ea9605@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <8296995c0705011231q216b1615wf337006ea5ea9605@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=25% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: d0fcfc06-52fb-4ad7-930a-f8f271975f5a X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 463799E8.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 15:50:03 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > On 5/1/07, Paula Praxis wrote: >> Hi everyone, I am preparing to make some drops for a stage >> production, the >> directors notes for the set drape call for "China Silk", we are poor >> so I >> have a couple of questions ...and for a look at how china silk acts as a drop (and why it is just so different from any kind of polyester) go rent "Hero" starring Jet Li, directed by Zhang Yimou, and watch the scene where the Emperor is fighting the Assassin in a hall filled with silk drops--stunning! A note on mm: 3 mm - almost sheer, like holding air 5 mm - barely opaque, very lightweight 8 mm - think fine silk scarf Oh, and Rupert, Gibbon and Spider also have good habotai prices, though only black and white: http://www.silkconnection.com/products/fabric/silk/habotai/ - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 15:56:56 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41Jutcf023369 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 15:56:55 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41JufT6024663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 15:56:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41JuC1c064682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 13:56:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41Ju9ee073445; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:56:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from md3.swissinfo.org (md3.swissinfo.org [146.159.4.94]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41Ju5nD073388 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:56:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from swissgirl@swissinfo.org) Received: from mail.swissinfo.org ([194.6.181.33]) by md3.swissinfo.org (md3.swissinfo.org) (MDaemon PRO v9.5.3) with ESMTP id md50026058474.msg for ; Tue, 01 May 2007 21:55:55 +0200 Received: from compaqub (24.216.120.37) by mail.swissinfo.org (7.2.064.1) (authenticated as swissgirl) id 45DAE0BC0328F941 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 1 May 2007 21:56:02 +0200 Message-ID: <06f501c78c2a$cc35a010$1f00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <840514.58269.qm@web33615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] China silk? Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 14:56:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Processed: md3.swissinfo.org, Tue, 01 May 2007 21:55:55 +0200 (not processed: spam filter heuristic analysis disabled) X-MDRemoteIP: 194.6.181.33 X-Return-Path: swissgirl@swissinfo.org X-Envelope-From: swissgirl@swissinfo.org X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-MDAV-Processed: md3.swissinfo.org, Tue, 01 May 2007 21:55:57 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9290c49d-9e9e-4cf3-bd0d-922219bb50a6 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 46379B79.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 15:56:45 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO http://www.silkconnection.com is also a great place to get undyed habotai/china silk cheap, especially if you're buying in bulk. For most things (but not all) they're cheaper than Dharma. A few years back I bought a bolt of charmeuse from them, and was very happy with the customer service I got. It turns out I don't like charmeuse anywhere NEAR as much as I thought I would, but that's another story... -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 16:49:25 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41KnPet025902 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 16:49:25 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41KnBNR022817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 16:49:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41KmWqj071456 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 14:48:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41KmSHn018027; Tue, 1 May 2007 14:48:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from metis.sjsu.edu (metis.sjsu.edu [130.65.3.15]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41KmPqH017929 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 14:48:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from attrembl@bovil.com) Received: from [130.65.37.188] (sjs-130-65-37-188.sjsu.edu [130.65.37.188]) by metis.sjsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41Klfaw002998 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:48:18 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <5FC34BFD-5209-43EB-B9AA-2C5603D81488@bovil.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: Historical Costume From: Andrew T Trembley Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 13:48:14 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costume-Con 26 room block now open! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1309191c-1620-4c86-9480-5d9474cb8dbf X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 4637A7C7.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 16:49:15 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Costume-Con 26 April 25-28, 2008 DoubleTree San Jose San Jose, CA http://www.cc26.info/ Room reservations for Costume-Con 26 at the DoubleTree San Jose Hotel are now open! *How to reserve your room for Costume-Con 26:* Room rates are $92.00 for single through quad occupancy. You can to make reservations online at www.dtsj.com, www.doubletree.com or at www.hilton.com. Please use group code C26 to get the Costume-Con 26 rate. In addition, we will soon have a link from the Costume-Con website to our own personalized reservations page. You can also make reservations by calling the Doubletree's toll free reservation number, 800-222-TREE (8733) or by calling the Doubletree San Jose directly at 408-453-4000 and mentioning Costume-Con 26. *Special Room Blocking Requests* If you want your room blocked near someone else, please have that noted in the comments for your reservation and then email our hotel liaison Dave Gallaher at hotel@cc26.info with your reservation number(s) and the rooms you want blocked together. Similarly, if you want a room on our party floor (the 2nd floor, in the wing near our Hospitality Suite), note it in the comments for your reservation, and email hotel@cc26.info with your request. *Suites* There are (a very few) parlor suites and one presidential suite available at the DoubleTree at our negotiated rate of $155. Most (not all) suites have a single king-size bed in the bedroom and a sofa bed in the parlor, with a second connecting bedroom available for the cost of the additional room. All of the suites are on the 9th and 10th (concierge) floors which have restricted access; in particular, there are no suites on the party floor. The rooms at the DoubleTree are quite large; you may find a pair of connecting guest rooms a reasonable alternative to a suite. The reservations system does not properly reflect our negotiated suite rate: if you want to reserve a suite, email Dave Gallaher at hotel@cc26.info with your request; and he will handle them on a first-come, first-served basis. Feel free to repost or forward this announcement in its entirety! Kevin Roche Chair, Costume-Con 26 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 16:57:55 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41KvtRY026218 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 16:57:55 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41KveCL003598 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 16:57:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41Jbcil062249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 13:37:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41Jbc31057483; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:37:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.239]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41JbaNr057451 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 13:37:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id m7so2461472nzf for ; Tue, 01 May 2007 12:37:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=hT/XsjnJzLFeFiD3SwyD0TwX+850XHzmiuvy5fQy/efA3wrdnFkhb4h6i/ob8eDdmPW5JJwM995UTMYi/rzBlseZf1G9jOIJiGneGfAFVbT81DVtiw3LNN6aBofhL27kkr2X7h+VQrzz9mU6WdFVH28oNkam2T+X0Qo2HVr8SmM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=UikO7p2gKz80hFknKZZbr9D/yX+eG5zFiD3DrIn2tl04iOnyDKc3v8T67LgubRTjZb7zHOqT5oXcJnIXfcFRX+d5/NaeZS+tQqDUccGAS6bOkn30A6dIRLkYKs1ReqiunoedGcHHgBFUByqnzNIo6z5qHe7IznwPzZYPgqJXZNw= Received: by 10.65.74.9 with SMTP id b9mr6822518qbl.1178048256057; Tue, 01 May 2007 12:37:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.81.8 with HTTP; Tue, 1 May 2007 12:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c0705011237n3d1736ecof4818a783f640d4d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 12:37:35 -0700 From: "Lynn Downward" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] China silk? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 4637A9C4.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 16:57:44 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Thank you, Maureen! It was really bugging me that I couldn't remember. LynnD On 5/1/07, Maureen Conklin wrote: > aka "habotai." > > ================== > ~ Twinkle, dammit! ~ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 17:30:23 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41LUNJr027413 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 17:30:23 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41LU8Ld023753 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 17:30:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41LTMS8076471 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 15:29:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41LTIEJ049145; Tue, 1 May 2007 15:29:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s22.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s22.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.158]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41LTEwf048988 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 15:29:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.22]) by bay0-omc2-s22.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 1 May 2007 14:29:09 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 1 May 2007 14:29:09 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 67.40.228.214 by BAY133-DAV12.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 01 May 2007 21:29:04 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [67.40.228.214] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "Historical Costume" References: <417361.42674.qm@web32712.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <06c101c78c20$2f8843d0$1f00a8c0@compaqub> Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 14:31:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 1 May 2007 14:31:21 -0700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2007 21:29:09.0572 (UTC) FILETIME=[C1320840:01C78C37] X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: net.indra.com 1290; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Ottoman silk/silk faille -was need fabric selection advice X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 097a720e-ccec-40ef-b857-fce978a58036 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 4637B161.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 17:30:13 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Do you mean silk faille? I'd never heard of it being called Ottoman = silk....learn something new everyday! :} Sg ----- Original Message -----=20 From: E House=20 To: Historical Costume=20 Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 11:40 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need fabric selection advice However, some of the=20 ribbed silks they sell would work very nicely! For example, I got = some silk=20 ottoman from them not too long ago: = http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/catalog_itemdetail.aspx?ItmID=3DAA036 and it is perfect for anything structured. I haven't felt samples of = their=20 other ottomans, but they should be at least somewhat similar (though = the=20 sueded ones might not be quite right for the era): = http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/Catalog_items.aspx?Query=3Dsilk%20ottom= an Unfortunately, in order to find ribbed silks on the site, you have to = know=20 the correct term for that specific fabric, and right now I'm drawing a = blank=20 other than ottoman; they don't use any of the obvious terms like = ribbed or=20 grosgrain. Mostly, you need to order 1/8 yd as a sample in order to = find=20 out what a fabric is like, because fabrics with the same=20 name/description/price/appearance can be wildly different. Also=20 unfortunately, this sort of stuff rarely goes on sale! -E House=20 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com = http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 17:33:02 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41LX2N1027502 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 17:33:02 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41LWl0h004969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 17:32:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41LWBwa077044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 15:32:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41LW9gB051607; Tue, 1 May 2007 15:32:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s17.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s17.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.217]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41LW6xN051395 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 15:32:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.13]) by bay0-omc3-s17.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 1 May 2007 14:31:59 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 1 May 2007 14:31:59 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 67.40.228.214 by BAY133-DAV3.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 01 May 2007 21:31:57 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [67.40.228.214] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200705011742.l41HgMcU057579@net.indra.com> <46371F100200005E0001BE87@AZ_AWINDO1_INET3.awin.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 14:34:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 1 May 2007 14:34:15 -0700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2007 21:31:59.0406 (UTC) FILETIME=[266CA4E0:01C78C38] X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 746a09ae-ccbd-4489-b974-784e0c3beb70 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4637B200.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 17:32:51 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Mine are pretty boring....one has a wool cloak lined with silk, and the = other is a mundane gown for my 6ft eighth grad friend. She chose dark = blue eyelet over light blue lining....SO CONSERVATIVE!!!=20 ;} Sg ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tori Ruhl=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 11:05 AM Subject: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 17:38:57 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41LcvBM027723 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 17:38:57 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41Lcgw8005720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 17:38:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41LcFQI077810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 15:38:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41LcEAC056153; Tue, 1 May 2007 15:38:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web82310.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web82310.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.85.230]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l41LcA2W056045 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 15:38:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from primevalooze@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 27873 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2007 21:38:05 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=KarNfy27Ub4sNQprWd66GgoCSYJ/lROofRaMIR7wzY7YMd3kR5hPwd5ELuEyGv8RPFPROhj9GwFfrd87kphTMcUInFFAlMR0IJizZaRlyOCu04gL6apS5KVKIJbpGNddwNOx3gfNMB9vUg0UnUqvkeyCokWevEFZrRKHjwHT+Mc=; X-YMail-OSG: 2Fw0UM8VM1lvsUi94pHVzRdPKcbLJaBXSzqJ.6hs2wSXb9sOTDAtMF7t5LIWqDDXGGErJvcHEqhPSVPaRCIXatwjlusk2cqK2.Gc3NvkBjbl0HOGxD8- Received: from [204.65.106.100] by web82310.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 May 2007 14:38:05 PDT Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 14:38:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynda Boots Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ottoman silk/silk faille -was need fabric selection advice To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <244663.26982.qm@web82310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=15% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1bed8a63-7aed-44c4-8e67-dc16ef3fd431 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4637B362.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 17:38:46 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I found some silk at this site called "hammered silk." Anyone know what this is? Lynda > >> http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/catalog_itemdetail.aspx?ItmID=AA036 > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 18:27:29 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41MRS2n029510 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 18:27:29 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41MRE6P007248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 18:27:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41MQRFV084810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 16:26:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41MQNcD094530; Tue, 1 May 2007 16:26:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s16.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s16.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.216]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41MQKl8094422 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 16:26:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from praxis_729@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.19.23]) by bay0-omc3-s16.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 1 May 2007 15:26:15 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 1 May 2007 15:26:15 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.19.200 by by109fd.bay109.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 01 May 2007 22:26:14 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.133.199.144] X-Originating-Email: [praxis_729@hotmail.com] X-Sender: praxis_729@hotmail.com From: "Paula Praxis" To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 15:26:14 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2007 22:26:15.0214 (UTC) FILETIME=[BB0984E0:01C78C3F] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Subject: [h-cost] China Silk X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c468e824-6f74-4bfe-bd5d-3401df8b0c7e X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4637BEC2.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 18:27:18 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Thank you all so much, now have a few web sites to check tonight. Will be going shopping tomorrow - I love LA's fabric district - between your suggestions & my shopping day I know I will find what I .need Thanks so much Paula _________________________________________________________________ Mortgage refinance is Hot. *Terms. Get a 5.375%* fix rate. Check savings https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2bbb&disc=y&vers=925&s=4056&p=5117 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 18:27:29 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41MRT6b029516 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 18:27:29 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41MRFi3021544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 18:27:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41MQR5B084811 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 16:26:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41MQO0p094548; Tue, 1 May 2007 16:26:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41MQLnX094498 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 16:26:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id ACB6BADA00C8; Tue, 01 May 2007 22:18:30 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Need fabric selection advice Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 15:26:13 -0700 Message-ID: <006d01c78c3f$ba339740$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <46374577.6010702@uvm.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: db8f7f1e-4181-4aaa-82ad-7124af3009ad X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4637BEC3.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 18:27:19 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO OK, so what kind of silk IS right for this time? I haven't used silk = much, so don't know anything about it. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] = On Behalf Of Hope Greenberg Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 6:50 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need fabric selection advice Wool! Wool is always right. When lined with light/handkerchief linen it=20 is especially wonderful--warm when it's cold out, and breathable and=20 surprisingly wearable even in the heat. If you can find a nice smooth=20 worsted wool gabardine (just a regular gabardine, not the one called=20 tricotine, or any of the new ones with lycra) it washes with hardly any=20 shrinkage and looks great for years. I'll second the comment about modern silks: the current fashion is for=20 soft and flowing, or, as in the case of dupionis and chantungs, firm and = slubby. Either way they are not ideal for this period. - Hope TeaRoseS@aol.com wrote: > =20 > =20 > Hello. Rank amateur that I am, I need some advice about selecting = fabric for=20 > my Tudor wardrobe (1530-1560ish) from you textile experts. = FashionFabrics > has silk twill on sale and I was wondering if it would be appropriate = for my=20 > period, and if so, what for?=20 > =20 > =20 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 18:30:25 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41MUOpM029624 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 18:30:24 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41MUAAQ022663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 18:30:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41MSH42084994 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 16:28:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41MSG7c095867; Tue, 1 May 2007 16:28:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41MSCaM095738 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 16:28:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.c02.149d249d (39329) for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 18:27:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 18:27:56 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 6, Issue 202 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 76c55353-96b0-461a-a8e8-b9a801454b0f X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4637BF72.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 18:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 01/05/2007 18:43:43 GMT Standard Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: (Did you know that when the Prime Minister visits, it is not a State dinner, because s/he is not, technically, head of state?) :o) s'not technical, no prime minister ever has been or, under current UK law, could be head of state. the pm's only allowed to form a govt because Her Maj. says so. and we're all subjects not citizens, and when we lopped off a royal head it didn't really work out!!! ;o) to get back to costumey topicness, the queen apparently once said some of my costumes were nice (huge grin that smiley won't express) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 18:39:58 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41MdwwX030034 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 18:39:58 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41MdiBm009188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 18:39:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41Mcxo1086112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 16:38:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41McvOd003760; Tue, 1 May 2007 16:38:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from md3.swissinfo.org (md3.swissinfo.org [146.159.4.94]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41McrL9003720 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 16:38:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from swissgirl@swissinfo.org) Received: from mail.swissinfo.org ([194.6.181.33]) by md3.swissinfo.org (md3.swissinfo.org) (MDaemon PRO v9.5.3) with ESMTP id md50026063711.msg for ; Wed, 02 May 2007 00:38:43 +0200 Received: from compaqub (24.216.120.37) by mail.swissinfo.org (7.2.064.1) (authenticated as swissgirl) id 45DAE0BC0329D253 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 2 May 2007 00:38:48 +0200 Message-ID: <071601c78c41$8962b9a0$1f00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 17:39:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Processed: md3.swissinfo.org, Wed, 02 May 2007 00:38:43 +0200 (not processed: spam filter heuristic analysis disabled) X-MDRemoteIP: 194.6.181.33 X-Return-Path: swissgirl@swissinfo.org X-Envelope-From: swissgirl@swissinfo.org X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-MDAV-Processed: md3.swissinfo.org, Wed, 02 May 2007 00:38:45 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Queen's compliments X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 605b1afb-2493-40b9-ae1f-4363f80a041b X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 4637C1B0.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 18:39:48 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: > to get back to costumey topicness, the queen apparently once said some of > my > costumes were nice (huge grin that smiley won't express) Neat! Which ones? Do you have pics? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 18:42:38 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41MgbZX030144 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 18:42:37 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41MgN14026199 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 18:42:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41MVgN8085339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 16:31:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41MVdNA098546; Tue, 1 May 2007 16:31:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41MVab1098463 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 16:31:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.cb9.11073acc (39329) for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 18:31:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 18:31:26 EDT Subject: RE: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1e6ba7f5-1b4b-4d8a-a5da-dc1400dd79e7 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4637C24F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 18:42:27 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO About eight or ten, (I think?) but I use them for display when I'm trading at markets, and for photographing stuff for the websites. When not in use they go to sleep in my big walk in cupboard (when it isn't *full* of fabric scraps!) In a message dated 01/05/2007 20:32:55 GMT Standard Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: OMG!!! How many do you have? Anne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 18:52:33 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41MqX8Z030537 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 18:52:33 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41MqJtt029630 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 18:52:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41Mpi1G087904 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 16:51:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41MphF1013247; Tue, 1 May 2007 16:51:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41MpdKE013199 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 16:51:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A2A53C3602B6; Tue, 01 May 2007 22:43:49 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 15:51:32 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c78c43$43923020$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: cc56ca88-3d45-4df4-a326-3b80966b08f9 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4637C4A3.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 18:52:23 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I don't have a dummy. I need one. Anyone got any recommendations/advice/types to avoid? Sharon C. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Cin Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 6:09 PM To: h-cost Subject: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? I just love starting this thread... such interesting answers. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 19:24:21 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41NOLJL031734 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 19:24:21 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41NO7iR006719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 19:24:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41NL597091164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 17:21:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41NL23G034099; Tue, 1 May 2007 17:21:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l41NKr7p033973 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 17:21:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABDDRU4QACD9RHS for (sender ); Tue, 1 May 2007 16:20:46 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhggZa++8vyTxROiVV5HaBAag= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id MLPM7FXV; Tue, 01 May 2007 16:20:38 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 16:15:04 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] brightening bullion tassel? Message-ID: <20070501.161947.3348.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,7-42 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 15:7:4275160501 X-MAIL-INFO: 2471b568b59169899169c51569c58128cdbcf509ad95bc389d25ad9838e9f8a838488818717971c9e8c5c1697115 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: fdc8b251-7c74-4ec2-b774-6c37f8511219 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 4637CC17.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 19:24:11 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO How interesting! :-) Might anyone have any idea on how it was cleaned in the Middle Ages? Arlys On Tue, 1 May 2007 20:32:26 +0200 "Bjarne og Leif Drews" writes: > The latest novelty i have heard about cleaning goldwork is to use > brushes, > where the brushes are made from fine glass threads. This is how they > do it > on museums. > > But where to get these brushes, i have not got any ideas. > > Bjarne > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" > To: "H-Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 5:03 PM > Subject: [h-cost] brightening bullion tassel? > > > > What would you folks suggest (if anything) for brightening a > presently > > very darkly tarnished Ph.D. tassel made of bullion braid? > > > > Kathleen > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 19:53:03 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41Nr3sV000300 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 19:53:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l41Nqn9K000612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 19:52:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l41Nq3BQ093946 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 17:52:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41Nq0wJ052120; Tue, 1 May 2007 17:52:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.251]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l41Npvff052041 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 17:51:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 62871 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2007 23:51:52 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=cKEltu95g5cosunMjM441ak5OACM/yRCFXqDl+Axb3rYdvtF9Tx1TNK0dmm38peAprPRrZx0/krifC6ewaxh95cqKFzcteF4U6Uqumc4TXTdoV4ZwPVPOFJJ0shMxP7pEjvjVIh8Dh65DiimmZDLQJgFDWAw3bj9lh7wqHB2SnE=; X-YMail-OSG: LlVBdmgVM1nfJCaABSV8wVb54nNaFOzBQdkiRP4i4RfsNWN46IZu4hBUuQJTt5E6NcnCSO1LEg-- Received: from [76.173.47.8] by web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 May 2007 16:51:52 PDT Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 16:51:52 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need fabric selection advice To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <06c101c78c20$2f8843d0$1f00a8c0@compaqub> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <74583.61877.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=23% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b0a32129-246c-4a86-93df-7c248e50ccda X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4637D2D1.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 19:52:53 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO --- E House wrote: > I have some lovely heavy silk twill from FFC in a > sort of darkdark emerald > green, which I got because A) it's heavy silk, and > anytime I see heavy silk > I must have it, and B) the husband loves that color. > But I absolutely > cannot figure out what on earth to do with it. I find myself thinking hmmmmmm... Cavalier, or better, Restoration. MaggiRos _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 20:39:47 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l420dliA002195 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 20:39:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l420dWIS028614 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 20:39:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l420cLkM097908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 18:38:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l420cJ9J077154; Tue, 1 May 2007 18:38:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.140]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l420cFbs077049 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 18:38:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 72341 invoked from network); 2 May 2007 00:38:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.155.43 with login) by smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2007 00:38:09 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: TWDJHowVM1kDLSE45Wk496rGVBjB19jiXthptqHXzWtuvrK1NIRe1gEIuVzEeG7zMpZJZ8DjAhF0x3zksuqQw45yLjdAxkrr3myhSI.xcrLBeFIC0hmih9peIz4E7us- Message-ID: <005b01c78c52$22816220$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200705011742.l41HgMcU057579@net.indra.com> <46371F100200005E0001BE87@AZ_AWINDO1_INET3.awin.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 20:37:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c70d0e63-b8e1-4dcf-925c-ed52cd04d3f9 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4637DDC4.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 20:39:36 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Well, my seven are about to return from their gallery show at Three River's Auction where they were on call to model some of the best of my Antique and Vintage Collection. The two day sale came off with rave revues. Of course the green room reverberated with the usual arguements about who was going to wear the 22" waist garments! Even el Cid vied for the priveledge of wearing the "Captain Kangaroo" suit. Such prima donnas all. Once home, they will have a well deserved vacation, and then back to the grind...18th and 19th repros. Life is hard. kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tori Ruhl" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 2:05 PM Subject: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? Mine is currently wearing what will hopefully turn out to be a doublet for my husband..*lol* It was my first attempt at draping a pattern, so I'm going to reserve judgment on it until it's done. - Victoria >>> 5/1/2007 1:42:33 PM >>> Send h-costume mailing list submissions to h-costume@mail.indra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to h-costume-request@mail.indra.com You can reach the person managing the list at h-costume-owner@mail.indra.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of h-costume digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: The Queen, The Queen (Ron Carnegie) 2. Re: The Queen, The Queen (AnnBWass@aol.com) 3. Re: Need fabric selection advice (Hope Greenberg) 4. RE: What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? (Anne Moeller) 5. i cant deside (Bjarne og Leif Drews) 6. Re: OT--Q for professors (Martha Oser) 7. Re: i cant deside (elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) 8. Re: The Queen, The Queen (elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) 9. brightening bullion tassel? (LLOYD MITCHELL) 10. Speaking of Williamsburg.... (Diana Habra) 11. Re: i cant deside (MaggiRos) 12. Re: Speaking of Williamsburg.... (Dawn) 13. Re: What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? (Cin) 14. Re: The Queen, The Queen (MaggiRos) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 09:28:24 -0400 From: "Ron Carnegie" Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Queen, The Queen To: "Historical Costume" Message-ID: <00a601c78bf4$98f1e820$0400000a@owner85a4f9e93> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Oh all right then.... She will arrive in Williamsburg Thursday night. She is staying at te Williamburg Inn. She will enjoy a carriage ride through the historic area on friday, and address people at the College of William and Mary. Later she will be at nthe two Jamestown Parks. I will be escorting her as part of an honor guard at Jamestowne Settlement. Ron Carnegie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 1:04 AM Subject: [h-cost] The Queen, The Queen Oh well, you can't win them all. Queen Elizabeth II is coming to Richmond, VA Thursday for the 400th Anniversary of Jamestown. Last Friday, it was announced that she would be at the Capital on Thursday, May 3. And that the Queen would be receiving 108 people in representation of the original 108 Jamestown Colonists. The Commonwealth of Virginia had a lottery today to be one of the 108 people. Darn, I didn't win. But my daughter, son, and I are going to the Capital to see the Queen give a speech. Hopefully we can get close enough to take photos. The Queen will be going to Jamestown next week. LOL! I wonder if the Queen is going to the NASCAR race in Richmond this weekend. For more info about the Queen's visit and Jamestown's 400th Anniversary go to: http://queensvisit.governor.virginia.gov/home.asp http://www.americas400thanniversary.com/ Maybe our Williamsburg h-costumers can give info about the Queen's visit there. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 09:40:45 EDT From: AnnBWass@aol.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Queen, The Queen To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 5/1/2007 9:28:53 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, r.carnegie@verizon.net writes: I will be escorting her as part of an honor guard at Jamestowne Settlement. That is indeed an honor. And of course she will be visiting the British Embassy here in Washington--they are getting the garden spiffed up for her visit, as she is to plant a tree. And I think there is a state dinner, too. (Did you know that when the Prime Minister visits, it is not a State dinner, because s/he is not, technically, head of state?) Ann Wass ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 09:49:43 -0400 From: Hope Greenberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need fabric selection advice To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <46374577.6010702@uvm.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Wool! Wool is always right. When lined with light/handkerchief linen it is especially wonderful--warm when it's cold out, and breathable and surprisingly wearable even in the heat. If you can find a nice smooth worsted wool gabardine (just a regular gabardine, not the one called tricotine, or any of the new ones with lycra) it washes with hardly any shrinkage and looks great for years. I'll second the comment about modern silks: the current fashion is for soft and flowing, or, as in the case of dupionis and chantungs, firm and slubby. Either way they are not ideal for this period. - Hope TeaRoseS@aol.com wrote: > > > Hello. Rank amateur that I am, I need some advice about selecting fabric > for > my Tudor wardrobe (1530-1560ish) from you textile experts. FashionFabrics > has silk twill on sale and I was wondering if it would be appropriate for > my > period, and if so, what for? > > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 10:08:46 -0400 From: "Anne Moeller" Subject: RE: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? To: "'Historical Costume'" Message-ID: <005501c78bfa$3bca0a50$0200a8c0@ANNESCOMPUTER> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" OMG!!! How many do you have? Anne -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Debloughcostumes@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 6:22 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? right now one's wearing a toile for a prom dress one's wearing assorted bits of child sized tudor clothing I'm doing for a museum one's wearing a tuodor fencing doublet I'm doing for fun one's wearing an original 30s silk velvet bolero jacket I'm restoring and another two are wearing the beginnings of dresses being made for parties - one for a friend will eventuallly be an 18th c saque, and one for me will be some sort of victorian or edwardian dress for a days of the raj party the rest are shamelessly naked :o) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/782 - Release Date: 5/1/2007 2:10 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/782 - Release Date: 5/1/2007 2:10 AM ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 16:15:32 +0200 From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Subject: [h-cost] i cant deside To: Message-ID: <000a01c78bfb$2f5dff50$b214a150@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi, As you all responded me so bravely i have uploaded a new photo how i want to make it. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sofie3-36.htm Its as i told you late last night made with 2 rows of stitching each side of the center and with the narrow goldtrim. It raises in the edges and gets dimentional as i wanted. Thankyou all for your nice responses.......... Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 10:22:42 -0400 From: "Martha Oser" Subject: [h-cost] Re: OT--Q for professors To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8" Greetings! I have a Master's Degree in Art History and I'm currently teaching at a local community college. My path to professorship was basically that there are very few other choices out there for a person with an Art History degree. Yes, there's museum work, but that really wasn't my cup of tea when I was in school. If your husband is at all considering getting a PhD, I would encourage him to keep that as his goal. Most institutions of higher education will want a PhD to hire someone for a tenure-track position. Even my community college put "PhD preferred" on the position notice for the full-time art historian job last year. At most four-year colleges and universities, it's "PhD required" to even be considered for a faculty job. That being said, if he can get in at a local community college, this is a great way for him to get his foot in the door in terms of teaching. It will look great on his resume for the future and will also give him a sense of whether teaching is what he _really_ wants to do. Perhaps he can teach for a while at a community college and then start his PhD in a few years? What he can do is look around at the websites of your local colleges and universities. Most of them have job listings posted online and he can look at the position descriptions and requirements and see what each school is looking for in terms of qualifications. He can also call the HR departments as you suggested, if he has specific questions about a particular school. I don't think it's important that he get his final degree from the school at which he eventually wishes to teach. In fact, it's the other way around - most schools want to see a diverse background - they want to hire people who have been other places and had other experiences that the new hire can bring into their community. Good luck to you and your student-husband! Best, Helena > I know we have a handful of professors on this list, and hopefully at > least > one of you can give me some input! Please feel free to take any responses > off-list. > > The husband, Thomas, has decided that his ideal career is that of an > electrical engineering or math professor. Right now, he's only got his > masters (or will have at the end of the summer), and since he's been > working > full-time as an ee while also attending classes at WUSTL for his masters, > he's a bit reluctant to go straight into getting his PhD. (I, too, am a > bit > reluctant to spend who knows how many more years of only seeing him on > weekends.) However, most community colleges and a few 4-year institutions > are willing to hire instructors with only a masters, especially when the > potential instructor also has some non-academic work experience in the > field > he wants to teach. The husband likes the idea of teaching at a community > college for a while rather than waiting to get his PhD, though he would > prefer to wind up as a tenured PhD at a 4-year institution. As a first > step, he hopes to be a part-time instructor at a local college, while > still > working full-time at the job he has now. > > Those few acquaintances I have who have become professors got into it by > basically becoming professional students, and that's not a path Thomas is > likely to take. (If nothing else, I'm no longer capable of putting him > through school! And oy, we're almost done paying off the last batch of > student loans...) So, we're trying to figure out a plan of attack for > Operation Become A Professor In Montana Or Wyoming. > > So much for the background. My questions are very general: what path did > you take to become a professor? What other paths have you seen > successfully > navigated? What would you advise Thomas to do, and what would you advise > him NOT to do? How important is it to get your PhD from the > college/university where you hope to teach? Who should he talk to--for > example, would it be a waste of time for him to call up some HR > departments > and ask them these sorts of questions, while he's still in the planning > stage? Is it a good idea for him to get a bit of teaching experience in > wherever possible, as with the part-time instructor plan? And so on, and > so > forth, and the like, etcetera. > > Thanks in advance to anyone who can help! > -E House ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 14:43:17 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] i cant deside To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <050120071443.9764.46375205000AE1740000262422058861720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain I think it looks Perfect for the look you are trying for! Thank you for sharing!! Gia -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > Hi, > As you all responded me so bravely i have uploaded a new photo how i want > to > make it. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sofie3-36.htm > Its as i told you late last night made with 2 rows of stitching each side > of > the center and with the narrow goldtrim. > It raises in the edges and gets dimentional as i wanted. > Thankyou all for your nice responses.......... > > Bjarne > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 14:45:32 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Queen, The Queen To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <050120071445.23760.4637528C000DD0F000005CD022007374780809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain *sigh* You lucky person! Gia -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Ron Carnegie" > Oh all right then.... > > > She will arrive in Williamsburg Thursday night. She is staying at te > Williamburg Inn. She will enjoy a carriage ride through the historic area > on friday, and address people at the College of William and Mary. Later > she > will be at nthe two Jamestown Parks. I will be escorting her as part of an > honor guard at Jamestowne Settlement. > > Ron Carnegie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Penny Ladnier" > To: "h-costume" > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 1:04 AM > Subject: [h-cost] The Queen, The Queen > > > Oh well, you can't win them all. Queen Elizabeth II is coming to Richmond, > VA Thursday for the 400th Anniversary of Jamestown. Last Friday, it was > announced that she would be at the Capital on Thursday, May 3. And that > the > Queen would be receiving 108 people in representation of the original 108 > Jamestown Colonists. The Commonwealth of Virginia had a lottery today to > be > one of the 108 people. Darn, I didn't win. But my daughter, son, and I are > going to the Capital to see the Queen give a speech. Hopefully we can get > close enough to take photos. The Queen will be going to Jamestown next > week. LOL! I wonder if the Queen is going to the NASCAR race in Richmond > this weekend. > For more info about the Queen's visit and Jamestown's 400th Anniversary go > to: > http://queensvisit.governor.virginia.gov/home.asp > http://www.americas400thanniversary.com/ > > Maybe our Williamsburg h-costumers can give info about the Queen's visit > there. > > Penny Ladnier, > Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumelibrary.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > www.costumeencyclopedia.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 11:03:06 -0400 From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" Subject: [h-cost] brightening bullion tassel? To: "H-Costume" Message-ID: <005f01c78c01$d4ed83e0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original What would you folks suggest (if anything) for brightening a presently very darkly tarnished Ph.D. tassel made of bullion braid? Kathleen ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 08:47:49 -0700 From: "Diana Habra" Subject: [h-cost] Speaking of Williamsburg.... To: "'Historical Costume'" Message-ID: <000301c78c08$13338900$0d00a8c0@D1V3BRB1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I was there recently and had the pleasure of meeting with Linda Baumgarten, the curator of clothing at textiles at Williamsburg. She actually volunteered this information (although I was planning to ask anyway) and I think people on this list might be interested: There WILL be a reprint of Costume Close-Up and I think she indicated that it will happen within about a year. Sorry to those folks who are trying to get upwards of $200 for it on EBAY but those of us in the know don't need to pay that. So if you wanted a copy but didn't get one on the first go-around, you will have another chance! Diana -- www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" "Be the change you want to see in the world" --Ghandi ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 09:53:42 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] i cant deside To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <20070501165342.6643.qmail@web32713.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 That's it! Striking and elegant. MaggiRos --- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > As you all responded me so bravely i have uploaded a > new photo how i want to > make it. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sofie3-36.htm > Its as i told you late last night made with 2 rows > of stitching each side of > the center and with the narrow goldtrim. > It raises in the edges and gets dimentional as i > wanted. > Thankyou all for your nice responses.......... > > Bjarne > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 12:14:13 -0500 From: Dawn Subject: Re: [h-cost] Speaking of Williamsburg.... To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <46377565.80602@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Diana Habra wrote: > > There WILL be a reprint of Costume Close-Up and I think she indicated that > it will happen within about a year. Thanks for sharing the good news. What I want to see back in print is _Fitting and Proper_. I tracked down one copy and it was in such bad shape (ripped cover, soiled interior) I refused to buy it. Dawn ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 10:37:59 -0700 From: Cin Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? To: h-cost Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >Re: What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? Euprosnia has on the lining of my next 1848-50 ballgown as I mark the waist & shoulder seams. It's going to be coral with some sort of braid across the bosom a la militaire. This gown's for the Danse Libre performance at the end of the month. www.DanseLibre.org Do come & see us if you have a chance. Adonis is wearing a black silk gilet (c 1350s), it goes under a pourpoint) and a large c 1890s woman's hat. His sense of fashion is somewhat lacking. Anne, Kathryn & Charles (the 3 heads) are wearing Isabel of Austria's velvet & pearl hat (c 1590), a "kiss-me-quick" bonnet adorned with a spray of green parrot feathers (c 1840s) and a tall red velvet hennin, veil and a bee pin (c 1470). --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 10:42:06 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Queen, The Queen To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <203613.89280.qm@web32714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Wow, Ron, that is SO cool! And after all, you have some previous experience ;-) Maggie --- Ron Carnegie wrote: > Oh all right then.... > > > She will arrive in Williamsburg Thursday night. > She is staying at te > Williamburg Inn. She will enjoy a carriage ride > through the historic area > on friday, and address people at the College of > William and Mary. Later she > will be at nthe two Jamestown Parks. I will be > escorting her as part of an > honor guard at Jamestowne Settlement. > > Ron Carnegie > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume End of h-costume Digest, Vol 6, Issue 202 ***************************************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 20:42:22 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l420gMiM002327 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 20:42:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l420g7U0030189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 20:42:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l420fnAt098253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 18:41:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l420fmer078901; Tue, 1 May 2007 18:41:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.140]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l420fiSR078817 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 18:41:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 75994 invoked from network); 2 May 2007 00:41:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.155.43 with login) by smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2007 00:41:39 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 0siwA54VM1kH_LOLGdP97M_XgXZCCYbncXuZ_cWF9h97mzKVoic1qCWgwZnvvOUuGgBRu7m_kkC4OCkC51YJVaNJ65w- Message-ID: <006401c78c52$9ece0fe0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20070501.161947.3348.2.Cley@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] brightening bullion tassel? Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 20:41:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 31085d74-c8fd-47ed-92bd-ae93af81a13e X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4637DE60.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 20:42:11 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I am afraid that since the tassell and cord were not attached, I reverted to a modern method and cleaned them with plain old jewelry dip...brightened, but not a gaudy! Kathleen (Who has now to attach them to the hat and get the package off to Vermont) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia J Ley" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:15 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] brightening bullion tassel? > How interesting! :-) > > Might anyone have any idea on how it was cleaned in the Middle Ages? > > Arlys > > On Tue, 1 May 2007 20:32:26 +0200 "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > writes: >> The latest novelty i have heard about cleaning goldwork is to use >> brushes, >> where the brushes are made from fine glass threads. This is how they >> do it >> on museums. >> >> But where to get these brushes, i have not got any ideas. >> >> Bjarne >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" >> To: "H-Costume" >> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 5:03 PM >> Subject: [h-cost] brightening bullion tassel? >> >> >> > What would you folks suggest (if anything) for brightening a >> presently >> > very darkly tarnished Ph.D. tassel made of bullion braid? >> > >> > Kathleen >> > _______________________________________________ >> > h-costume mailing list >> > h-costume@mail.indra.com >> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 21:24:03 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l421O2FW004254 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 21:24:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l421NmXl020971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 21:23:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l421NJBd002046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 19:23:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l421NIo0099719; Tue, 1 May 2007 19:23:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from md3.swissinfo.org (md3.swissinfo.org [146.159.4.94]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41Maulk002390 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 16:36:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from swissgirl@swissinfo.org) Received: from mail.swissinfo.org ([194.6.181.33]) by md3.swissinfo.org (md3.swissinfo.org) (MDaemon PRO v9.5.3) with ESMTP id md50026063656.msg for ; Wed, 02 May 2007 00:36:47 +0200 Received: from compaqub (24.216.120.37) by mail.swissinfo.org (7.2.064.1) (authenticated as swissgirl) id 45DAE0BC0329D04B for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 2 May 2007 00:36:53 +0200 Message-ID: <070c01c78c41$44d96810$1f00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <417361.42674.qm@web32712.mail.mud.yahoo.com><06c101c78c20$2f8843d0$1f00a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ottoman silk/silk faille -was need fabric selection advice Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 17:37:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Processed: md3.swissinfo.org, Wed, 02 May 2007 00:36:47 +0200 (not processed: spam filter heuristic analysis disabled) X-MDRemoteIP: 194.6.181.33 X-Return-Path: swissgirl@swissinfo.org X-Envelope-From: swissgirl@swissinfo.org X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: h-costume@indra.com X-MDAV-Processed: md3.swissinfo.org, Wed, 02 May 2007 00:36:47 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1a1d1b26-9c41-4f76-937f-befa31201478 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 4637E824.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 21:23:51 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace Knauf" > Do you mean silk faille? I'd never heard of it being called Ottoman > silk....learn something new everyday! _That's_ what I was trying to think of! Thank you. I think there might be a slight difference, at least as sold by FFC, but that's definitely the general idea. (Faille as I think of it is a bit lighter in weight than what I got.) I'd never heard of it either, until I saw it for sale there--I think I might have actually had to ask on the list here to find out what on earth it was! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 21:24:17 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l421OHUD004264 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 21:24:17 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l421O3eK022630 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 21:24:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l421NYJZ002131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 19:23:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l421NXjb099951; Tue, 1 May 2007 19:23:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l421ECDw094911 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 19:14:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.bfc.164afb67 (14502) for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 21:14:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 21:14:01 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ottoman silk/silk faille -was need fabric selection advice To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: bd50c54b-3b7b-493e-bace-9f7acc991db5 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4637E833.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 21:24:06 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO ottomon silk is a lot different to faille - much more heavily ridged, and a generally heavier fabric. have also seen it sold as corded silk In a message dated 02/05/2007 01:42:36 GMT Standard Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace Knauf" > Do you mean silk faille? I'd never heard of it being called Ottoman > silk....learn something new everyday! _That's_ what I was trying to think of! Thank you. I think there might be a slight difference, at least as sold by FFC, but that's definitely the general idea. (Faille as I think of it is a bit lighter in weight than what I got.) I'd never heard of it either, until I saw it for sale there--I think I might have actually had to ask on the list here to find out what on earth it was! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 21:25:42 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l421Pfd7004315 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 21:25:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l421PRrb023294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 21:25:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l421N1A7002013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 19:23:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l421Mwch099526; Tue, 1 May 2007 19:22:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l41MNinC092467 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 16:23:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id AC182D6041C; Tue, 01 May 2007 22:15:52 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT--Q for any/all professors Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 15:23:35 -0700 Message-ID: <006c01c78c3f$5ba867a0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <064301c78bc1$9608da20$1f00a8c0@compaqub> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8acd54d4-0a46-4581-ac04-aa313282f9ef X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4637E887.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 21:25:31 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I have a BA AND a community college teaching credential. The way I got = it was, I was working at the college and my boss told me I should get my credential. I said I didn't have a MA. He said I could get a Limited = Service Credential. If you have a BA and are working in your field, that counts. = I also needed a recommendation (I got it from him) The credential is not a full time one. I am only allowed to work 40% of the regular hours of a = full time prof. Your husband might want to check this out. Also, he might be = able to get a Full Service Comm. College credential since he has a MA. Sharon C. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] = On Behalf Of E House Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 12:23 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] OT--Q for any/all professors I know we have a handful of professors on this list, and hopefully at = least=20 one of you can give me some input! Please feel free to take any = responses=20 off-list. The husband, Thomas, has decided that his ideal career is that of an=20 electrical engineering or math professor. Right now, he's only got his=20 masters (or will have at the end of the summer), and since he's been = working full-time as an ee while also attending classes at WUSTL for his = masters,=20 he's a bit reluctant to go straight into getting his PhD. (I, too, am a = bit reluctant to spend who knows how many more years of only seeing him on=20 weekends.) However, most community colleges and a few 4-year = institutions=20 are willing to hire instructors with only a masters, especially when the = potential instructor also has some non-academic work experience in the = field he wants to teach. The husband likes the idea of teaching at a = community=20 college for a while rather than waiting to get his PhD, though he would=20 prefer to wind up as a tenured PhD at a 4-year institution. As a first=20 step, he hopes to be a part-time instructor at a local college, while = still=20 working full-time at the job he has now. Those few acquaintances I have who have become professors got into it by = basically becoming professional students, and that's not a path Thomas = is=20 likely to take. (If nothing else, I'm no longer capable of putting him=20 through school! And oy, we're almost done paying off the last batch of=20 student loans...) So, we're trying to figure out a plan of attack for=20 Operation Become A Professor In Montana Or Wyoming. So much for the background. My questions are very general: what path = did=20 you take to become a professor? What other paths have you seen = successfully navigated? What would you advise Thomas to do, and what would you = advise=20 him NOT to do? How important is it to get your PhD from the=20 college/university where you hope to teach? Who should he talk to--for=20 example, would it be a waste of time for him to call up some HR = departments=20 and ask them these sorts of questions, while he's still in the planning=20 stage? Is it a good idea for him to get a bit of teaching experience in = wherever possible, as with the part-time instructor plan? And so on, = and so forth, and the like, etcetera. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 1 21:44:54 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l421iq7G004972 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 21:44:52 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l421ichn015924 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 May 2007 21:44:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l421glAp004106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 19:42:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l421glXN010421; Tue, 1 May 2007 19:42:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from flpvm09.prodigy.net (flpvm09.prodigy.net [207.115.20.39]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l421gi0S010340 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 19:42:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) X-ORBL: [75.46.6.211] Received: from [75.46.6.211] (adsl-75-46-6-211.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net [75.46.6.211]) by flpvm09.prodigy.net (8.13.8 out.dk.spool/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l421gVpt006321 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 18:42:33 -0700 In-Reply-To: <006d01c78c3f$ba339740$0200a8c0@bob3pc> References: <006d01c78c3f$ba339740$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need fabric selection advice Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 21:42:26 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 833dc60d-fa5c-4fcc-8d2f-279072d23cd1 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4637ED06.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 01 May 2007 21:44:42 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On May 1, 2007, at 6:26 PM, Sharon Collier wrote: > OK, so what kind of silk IS right for this time? I haven't used > silk much, > so don't know anything about it. My favorites are silk satin (make sure it's "duchess" satin and not charmeuse, which is much drapier) http://www.decorativesilk.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=403 regular silk taffeta or changeable silk taffeta http://www.decorativesilk.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=205 http://www.decorativesilk.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=202 and silk damask (sometimes called brocade, whether it technically is or not) http://www.decorativesilk.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=259 Try to stay away from "silk" velvets, as most of them are primarily rayon and very limp in texture--yummy for a scarf, but very bad for a Tudor gown. Other sources for silks of various kinds include: http://www.designerfabrics.ca http://www.supersilk.com/index1.asp (click on "Silk Gallery") http://www.istok.net/home.php?cat=680 http://www.dharmatrading.com/ http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/ http://www.silkconnection.com/products/fabric/silk/ http://www.thaisilks.com/index.php?cPath=1 http://www.silktrading.com/stcCatalogProducts.aspx?id=1 Happy shopping, Melanie Schuessler > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume- > bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Hope Greenberg > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 6:50 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need fabric selection advice > > > Wool! Wool is always right. When lined with light/handkerchief > linen it > is especially wonderful--warm when it's cold out, and breathable and > surprisingly wearable even in the heat. If you can find a nice smooth > worsted wool gabardine (just a regular gabardine, not the one called > tricotine, or any of the new ones with lycra) it washes with hardly > any > shrinkage and looks great for years. > > I'll second the comment about modern silks: the current fashion is for > soft and flowing, or, as in the case of dupionis and chantungs, > firm and > slubby. Either way they are not ideal for this period. > > - Hope > > > TeaRoseS@aol.com wrote: >> >> >> Hello. Rank amateur that I am, I need some advice about selecting >> fabric > for >> my Tudor wardrobe (1530-1560ish) from you textile experts. >> FashionFabrics > >> has silk twill on sale and I was wondering if it would be >> appropriate for > my >> period, and if so, what for? >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 00:18:20 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l424IJU8011797 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 00:18:20 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l424I5Fa003855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 00:18:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l424HEdl020398 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 22:17:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l424HABF087653; Tue, 1 May 2007 22:17:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l424H55E087579 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 22:17:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.d0b.df54ea0 (30737) for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 00:16:50 -0400 (EDT) From: TeaRoseS@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 00:16:48 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5365 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: fabric selection advice X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: e62aeaf5-3ac8-4533-ac94-3fcb8d1391f4 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463810FD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 00:18:09 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Thanks for all the input, guys! So, a ribbed silk, like faille or ottoman, would be okay for a Tudor court dress. Does taffeta fall into this category? Are there other names for it? Another thing I've been wondering about though: what characteristics should I look for in a wool fabric? I have never worked with wool (okay, only once, for my pirate coat) and I have no idea what it should look like for a period garment. Someone suggested worsted gabardine, which is what I used for my pirate coat, but I thought it seemed awfully, I dunno, hard? Like I said, I have no idea what it's supposed to look like. Thanks again to everyone who responded. Tea Rose ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 01:31:39 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l425VcU3019941 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 01:31:38 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l425VO6X016749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 01:31:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l425U65o027663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 23:30:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l425U3jY021427; Tue, 1 May 2007 23:30:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l425U0ut021353 for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 23:30:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=radiks.net; b=oVuTss+5sLCTKZ6opSgubJq4XZltL7yQ6bgLtWwCYPW3LxM2EPcXHs3gcZ/pfx8f; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [69.81.2.225] (helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Hj7PX-0003Qz-IH; Wed, 02 May 2007 01:29:55 -0400 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20070502002051.0282c4b0@pop.radiks.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 00:26:36 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com, ICG-D@yahoogroups.com, F-Costume@yahoogroups.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-ELNK-Trace: 4dc586d4c2c509b54091741908ea4e5311eb5c9aa44f2a66f2ea57f67d06563d1a659efb094ad738350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.81.2.225 X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Roc-Lon muslin X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 110518a5-82b6-4566-9d11-6e5ed8625017 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 4638222C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 01:31:28 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I remember a discussion on one of my lists about muslin and qualities of muslin. Some were saying that Roc-Lon was a good quality, and some places (maybe Joann's) weren't carrying it anymore. Well, Vogue Fabrics in Chicago is having a sale: Roc-Lon Premium Muslin - Wholesale We've looked high and low to bring this special back to you! We just unloaded 10,000 yards of 1st quality, 38" unbleached premium quality muslin #405 from Roc-Lon into our warehouse as a special buy for our customers. 100% cotton. 38" wide. Machine washable. 50 yds for $50 * 300 yds for $270 * "A Mile of Muslin" for $1350 I don't think it will last long at this price. Sandy "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 01:39:51 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l425dmFf021191 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 01:39:48 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l425dYbV017123 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 01:39:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l425d1K3028479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 1 May 2007 23:39:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l425d0h2025503; Tue, 1 May 2007 23:39:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail10.tpgi.com.au (mail10.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.147]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l425cuIE025463 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 1 May 2007 23:38:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-244-241-164-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.244.241.164]) by mail10.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l425crG9000737 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 15:38:54 +1000 Message-ID: <00da01c78c7c$2affd0b0$a4f1f4dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Paisley in Regency dresses Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 15:38:51 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Content-Disposition: X-PCToolsMIME: Updated by PC Tools Mime Parser 1.0.0.4 X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=21% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7d9842dc-f0e9-4402-91bf-40b915bd3e51 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 46382416.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 01:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO thanks to everyone who replied, consider my curiosity satisfied on this matter at least :) Elizabeth E-mail message checked by PC Tools Spyware Doctor (5.0.0.182) Database version: 5.07200 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 06:57:06 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42Av54m023636 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 06:57:06 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l42AupZN005028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 06:56:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l42Aljik052765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 04:47:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42AlfXw060364; Wed, 2 May 2007 04:47:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.43]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42AlbAh060304 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 04:47:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Deredere.Galbraith@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-1584.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.120.51]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0C9C31928D for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 12:47:31 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <46386C48.4040500@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 12:47:36 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=12% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Embossing leather X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 3bcb735b-e063-4722-be70-f960c097ef03 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 46386E73.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 06:56:55 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi, I am looking for a site that explains how to emboss leather. That is something I would love to try. It is not for historical use. It is for a fantasy Ares god of war costume for my husband next year. Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 15:20:22 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42JKMls024869 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 15:20:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l42JK7F5011228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 15:20:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l42JI6vW019367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 13:18:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42JHrNF048355; Wed, 2 May 2007 13:17:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42FccB1049377 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 09:38:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4840FCDB5E for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 10:38:31 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 10:38:34 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: bd840096-adfc-4a37-85e4-a18c41233412 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4638E467.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 15:20:11 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Can anybody tell me, roughly, what year this pattern might represent? http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.B5061=x&TI=10001&page=4 Is that Victorian? 20th century? Something else? I kind of like the nightgown. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 15:27:26 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42JRQM2025164 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 15:27:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l42JRCAW007064 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 15:27:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l42JLB3O019873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 13:21:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42JLASn051585; Wed, 2 May 2007 13:21:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42INNKT098790 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 12:23:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.c95.ee3f075 (60451) for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 14:23:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from WEBMAIL-RA09 (webmail-ra09.webmail.aol.com [152.163.181.148]) by ciaaol-r01.mx.aol.com (v115.11) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLR014-ec234638d712cf; Wed, 02 May 2007 14:23:14 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 14:23:14 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User MIME-Version: 1.0 From: tearoses@aol.com X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 25698 Received: from 68.143.196.38 by WEBMAIL-RA09.sysops.aol.com (152.163.181.148) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 02 May 2007 14:23:14 -0400 Message-Id: <8C95AFE150724A2-1654-2A26@WEBMAIL-RA09.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 152.163.181.148 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 16th-century short pants???? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 6ed6c3e6-ee35-448b-8e67-df42e7231420 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 4638E610.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 15:27:16 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Somebody tell me this guy is NOT showing off his barenaked knees in the background of this painting: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1530dutchcalendar11bathsheba.jpg Bruegel drew some fieldworkers wearing similar shorts: http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=4293000&a=31783828&f= but I had assumed this was a comfort thing rather than a style thing. But notice they have the same points over the knees as in the painting above. Please give me a plausible explanation, before my perpetually-overheated husband finds out and demands I make him a pair! Tea Rose ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 15:33:57 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42JXvbo025444 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 15:33:57 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l42JXh6D009346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 15:33:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l42JWtjH021292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 13:32:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42JWqwP061843; Wed, 2 May 2007 13:32:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from S1.cableone.net (s1.cableone.net [24.116.0.227]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42JWlA1061719 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 13:32:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from anteckim (unverified [24.119.254.13]) by S1.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S1) with ESMTP id 106078482 for ; Wed, 02 May 2007 12:32:42 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net> Subject: RE: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 14:32:39 -0500 Message-ID: <015e01c78cf0$a5ce5130$bb00a8c0@anteckim> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 thread-index: AceM8DATWLh9OSiAT++MqfZNuSOwuAAAGe2g In-Reply-To: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net> X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 1, First 28, in=38, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 24.119.254.13 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: acaea600-8475-4c53-8605-4085dfc40cea X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 4638E797.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 15:33:47 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO NOT Victorian or Edwardian. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Dawn Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 10:39 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Can anybody tell me, roughly, what year this pattern might represent? http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.B5061=x&TI=10 001&page=4 Is that Victorian? 20th century? Something else? I kind of like the nightgown. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 16:29:10 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42KTAps027695 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 16:29:10 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l42KSt39002499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 16:28:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l42KSCJc028059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 14:28:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42KS5IA008106; Wed, 2 May 2007 14:28:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.228]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42KS2t8008056 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 14:28:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i4so329141wra for ; Wed, 02 May 2007 13:27:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=hNNRNXqmORRd8yHUTHmTHpzj0MCKQwy0F3fUt/7QtqyCM+cTxOLjzZKrY+W71DB14FnR8MmKLUej1Mk/n1w6gsJiGjsyZ1c1DrMULJo1x3FoRObIusEzjR6hm/qjvgcPBzfWp3UCtWDeVRsmGdk4EJovUq9LZlYKBuUlbGSjPgU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=HR6lwXV4PpPUYYp0+qsjk9Ys9GVty/2jr5jnCmH2aNA62Sp6zCKWEElUQtHgaf9U5lyb5dM/z02dWnoNethwmgsCCJw51rTwfJuMOI1XJ9Jkde/5kY+Cna/Snfx6qGFrD+RtevluPVLAjSbuA8i2ZSBEP8F75F2J7qn4h/FdBFI= Received: by 10.114.136.1 with SMTP id j1mr363604wad.1178137675291; Wed, 02 May 2007 13:27:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.131.18 with HTTP; Wed, 2 May 2007 13:27:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 13:27:55 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Vivian Westwood X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 79681e72-cfb8-456d-a828-83b12dbf4c21 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 4638F487.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 16:28:59 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Just a reminder.... because one more would round out our car full ever so nicely, On 4/12/07, Cin wrote: > Anyone for an h-costume midday excursion to the Vivian Westwood show > at the DeYoung? Play hookey from work! It would amuse me vastly to > go on Wednesday 9 May and head back out of the city by rush hour. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 16:29:44 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42KTi8t027735 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 16:29:44 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l42KTUI0006912 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 16:29:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l42KSstD028198 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 14:28:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42KSrI1008784; Wed, 2 May 2007 14:28:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eagle.uvm.edu (eagle.uvm.edu [132.198.101.203]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42KSmZd008705 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 14:28:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (c-75-68-166-211.hsd1.vt.comcast.net [75.68.166.211]) (authenticated bits=0) by eagle.uvm.edu (8.13.7/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l42KSkSw014927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 16:28:47 -0400 Message-ID: <4638F484.8000600@uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 16:28:52 -0400 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th-century short pants???? References: <8C95AFE150724A2-1654-2A26@WEBMAIL-RA09.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C95AFE150724A2-1654-2A26@WEBMAIL-RA09.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=25% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ce745caa-77a4-4789-87f0-5c9d8c8ccba7 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4638F4AA.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 16:29:34 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Interesting! particularly the Breugel example which, as you say, looks quite practical. I don't know if it helps answer the question, but here's the iconography behind that fellow: The image compresses two sectionsof the David/Bathsheba story, briefly: David spies Bathsheba bathing, becomes enamored, sleeps with her, she gets pregnant. He orders her husband Uriah home from the battlefield so that she can pass the child off as legitimate. Uriah refuses to go home while his comrades in arms are still in battle. David finally sends him back to battle with a note to his General commanding the General to make sure Uriah gets killed in action. So, the main image in the foreground is the usual Bathsheba being attended at her bath. The background image is King David sending Uriah off with the message that is essentially his own death warrant. The fun part is that while the subject gave artists the opportunity to paint the titillating images of nudity, adultery and lust, the medieval iconography that built up around the images was quite different. Without going into great detail, the image was viewed not as lust and adultery but as a prefiguration of Christ, the Church and baptism. In this case David is Christ wishing to be joined to the Church, represented by Bathsheba who is being baptized, and Uriah, though a Hittite, represents the Jewish people refusing to 'go home' to the Church. An interesting discussion of all this can be found in several places, for example an article by Wayne Craven in the Journal of the Society of Architectural Historians titled 'The Iconography of the David and Bathsheba Cycle at the Cathedral of Auxerre' (available online at JSTOR). So, the figure of Uriah, being a historical character (both a Hittite, literally, and a Jew, allegorically) may well be dressed oddly in these images. Add to that that he is a soldier, who are generally depicted in not-typical clothing. Also, the command from David telling him to go home and sleep with his wife is actually given as "go home and wash your feet." I don't think I'm suggesting his bare knees are related to that, specifically: just thinking his outfit might not be considered what the well-dressed 16th century man would be wearing! - Hope tearoses@aol.com wrote: > Somebody tell me this guy is NOT showing off his barenaked knees in the background of this painting: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1530dutchcalendar11bathsheba.jpg > > Please give me a plausible explanation, before my perpetually-overheated husband finds out and demands I make him a pair! > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 17:32:22 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42LWKAl030554 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:32:20 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l42LW3J0018574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 17:32:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l42LUnkf036187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 15:30:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42LUesf060866; Wed, 2 May 2007 15:30:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42LRp3V058317 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 15:27:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from needlethread96@aol.co.uk) Received: from needlethread96@aol.co.uk by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.bea.fcab72d (57871) for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:27:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail-md19 (webmail-md19.webmail.aol.com [64.12.170.137]) by air-ia02.mail.aol.com (v115.11) with ESMTP id MAILINIA21-e20f463902371f2; Wed, 02 May 2007 17:27:19 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 17:27:19 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User MIME-Version: 1.0 From: needlethread96@aol.co.uk X-Mailer: AOL Email 25698 Received: from 83.100.200.33 by webmail-md19.sysops.aol.com (64.12.170.137) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 02 May 2007 17:27:19 -0400 Message-Id: <8C95B17CC8F5B97-8CC-74E5@webmail-md19.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.137 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=50% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 37d15b0f-a7e7-49df-bafe-b481802d3766 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 46390353.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 17:32:09 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi! Sorry to be a bit behind with this (and non-historical!), but my child size dummy is wearing a plum coloured circle skirt with a pink ribbon trim. It is part of a cheerleading outfit that I promised my daughter for doing well in the majorette/cheerleading competition she recently took part in. Regards Jayne -----Original Message----- From: cinbarnes@gmail.com To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Tue, 1 May 2007 2.08AM Subject: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? I just love starting this thread... such interesting answers. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new free AOL Email -- 2GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 17:43:31 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42LhVxw031091 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:43:31 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l42LhH3W027107 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 17:43:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l42LeRTG037271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 15:40:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42LeP8T069326; Wed, 2 May 2007 15:40:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms042pub.verizon.net (vms042pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.42]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42LeJDj069249 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 15:40:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from owner85a4f9e93 ([162.83.119.134]) by vms042.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JHF00G36O6QXG91@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 May 2007 16:40:03 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 17:40:02 -0400 From: "Ron Carnegie" Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Queen, The Queen To: "Historical Costume" Message-id: <00b801c78d02$7135f100$0400000a@owner85a4f9e93> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <203613.89280.qm@web32714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: db0a6a43-24c2-4677-9745-c14496323ff0 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463905F5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 17:43:21 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Its funny, but that didnt really occur to me. What Maggie is referring to, is that for several years I was attached to the Queen's Guard for the Rennaisance Pleasure Faire in California. Guarding the OTHER Elizabeth. And so it goes.... Ron Carnegie ----- Original Message ----- From: "MaggiRos" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Queen, The Queen > Wow, Ron, that is SO cool! And after all, you have > some previous experience ;-) > > Maggie > > > --- Ron Carnegie wrote: > >> Oh all right then.... >> >> >> She will arrive in Williamsburg Thursday night. >> She is staying at te >> Williamburg Inn. She will enjoy a carriage ride >> through the historic area >> on friday, and address people at the College of >> William and Mary. Later she >> will be at nthe two Jamestown Parks. I will be >> escorting her as part of an >> honor guard at Jamestowne Settlement. >> >> Ron Carnegie >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 18:11:23 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42MBNZ0032136 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:11:23 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l42MB9rB018857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 18:11:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l42MAepZ040839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 16:10:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42MAa0o092425; Wed, 2 May 2007 16:10:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zixvpm01.creighton.edu (ZIXVPM01.creighton.edu [147.134.0.65]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42MAWKI092353 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 16:10:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cynthiaabel@creighton.edu) Received: from zixvpm01.creighton.edu (ZixVPM [127.0.0.1]) by Outbound.creighton.edu (Proprietary) with ESMTP id 80AD22E814E for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:04:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by zixvpm01.creighton.edu (Proprietary) with ESMTP id 158032E813A for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:04:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_29774)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22153 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:10:30 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 17:10:20 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <015e01c78cf0$a5ce5130$bb00a8c0@anteckim> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Thread-Index: AceM8DATWLh9OSiAT++MqfZNuSOwuAAAGe2gAAV9CyA= References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net> <015e01c78cf0$a5ce5130$bb00a8c0@anteckim> From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b69306b4-8195-41fb-b0a3-527fdbc34182 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46390C7D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 18:11:13 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO =20 I think they mean it to be pseudo Victorian or Edwardian, but it is not. Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kim Baird Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 2:33 PM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: RE: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 NOT Victorian or Edwardian. Kim=20 -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Dawn Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 10:39 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Can anybody tell me, roughly, what year this pattern might represent? http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.B5061=3Dx&= T I=3D10 001&page=3D4 Is that Victorian? 20th century? Something else? I kind of like the nightgown. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 18:37:43 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42MbhRM000781 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:37:43 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l42MbTdk010330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 18:37:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l42Matrg043547 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 16:36:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42MapZi011764; Wed, 2 May 2007 16:36:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf3.socket.net (mf3k.socket.net [216.106.88.98]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42Mamlk011721 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 16:36:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf3.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id AA0A43F1EF for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:36:47 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 17:36:47 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <015e01c78cf0$a5ce5130$bb00a8c0@anteckim> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 52526e7e-f1ed-4c95-a2bd-f5c50a91c121 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463912A9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 18:37:33 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I am not 100% sure but I believe this to be Late Edwardian, probably around the 1910s or 20s. There is a very slim chance of it being Regency but I have my doubts. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 19:15:16 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42NFGKr002220 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:15:16 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l42NF0X1012867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 19:15:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l42NEVG6046935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 17:14:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42NETFK035514; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:14:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (root@static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net [71.162.243.5]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42NEQjr035475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:14:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l42MRfYX008711 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:27:41 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 19:23:32 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2941d392-6c7a-4e6a-ab46-fe51f74ee0fc X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 46391B74.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 19:15:06 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Wednesday 02 May 2007 11:38 am, Dawn wrote: > Can anybody tell me, roughly, what year this pattern might represent? > > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.B5061=x&TI=1 >0001&page=4 > > Is that Victorian? 20th century? Something else? I kind of like the > nightgown. I think it's meant to be a bad rendition of late Victorian underwear and nightwear. -- Cathy Raymond "You've got to have the proper amount of disrespect for what you do." -- George Mabry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 19:37:01 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42Nb1bO002927 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:37:01 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l42Nak8H004740 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 19:36:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l42NaCRq049180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 17:36:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42NaAwR049318; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:36:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail8.tpgi.com.au (mail8.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.46]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42Na5n5049263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:36:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-216-82-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.216.82]) by mail8.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l42Na2DS001958 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 09:36:03 +1000 Message-ID: <001301c78d12$a41f2220$52d8f5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 09:35:58 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Content-Disposition: X-PCToolsMIME: Updated by PC Tools Mime Parser 1.0.0.4 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=17% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 32a34e13-89dc-45cc-96a4-c27ad639d346 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4639208E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 19:36:50 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 1:38 AM Subject: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 > Can anybody tell me, roughly, what year this pattern might represent? > > http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.B5061=x&TI=10001&page=4 > > Is that Victorian? 20th century? Something else? I kind of like the > nightgown. > > > > Dawn > I believe the correct timeline for this is 'days of yore' ;-D more period looking than pink fluffy fleece pyjamas but only superficially resembling any particular historical style. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ E-mail message checked by PC Tools Spyware Doctor (5.0.0.182) Database version: 5.07200 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 19:44:46 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42Nika4003231 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:44:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l42NiW5G019018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 19:44:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l42NhZmn049812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 17:43:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42NhWIa053469; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:43:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.226]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42NhU0N053443 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:43:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id m7so340835nzf for ; Wed, 02 May 2007 16:43:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=qAkzJn8Owt5RdHpxEBwepzCnjTcApdQoYDCAPeUxtaH5jIbXqKyWZue2Hl7ATsZdHIJWrDF/z4qqMT0vP3iylMNzjWG6OXXAPiK2LxXcJjOzoGL0FU+TV1xRZXtL664OjIPhMsXM6yj1/hmGiZQ4woA1lDOSiv3nWxyuOe282z4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=K5icid/5pan5/JllbGRUcCaf1qPwsUn0gdarKCLBev5i8NaTUt7knXG2eBiYO2QooCwXhjJaim1WjnMzo9ATinlzqyGXphif+zkXYdVTj/FZuRglJlMO/bTMS4NudZRNZTbu+ZAjruMg/fl2WKpXB3XzRyZ55V6InyX66WRF2PY= Received: by 10.114.56.1 with SMTP id e1mr407073waa.1178149409511; Wed, 02 May 2007 16:43:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.131.18 with HTTP; Wed, 2 May 2007 16:43:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 16:43:29 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Dressmakers dummmies (was: What's your dressmakers dummy wearing ) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9dbf8928-c593-47f4-b846-670630cde375 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 46392260.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 19:44:36 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO >I don't have a dummy. I need one. Anyone got any >recommendations/advice/types to avoid? >Sharon C. The thread hes been discussed several times -- check the archives. Uniquely You, IMHO, is the best purchased form. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 19:59:38 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42Nxck3003845 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:59:38 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l42NxOF0015992 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 19:59:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l42Nt4N3050859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 17:55:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42Nt2Uf059697; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:55:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.141]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l42NsxtG059609 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:55:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 61010 invoked from network); 2 May 2007 23:54:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.254.84 with login) by smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2007 23:54:53 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: _N2rU7oVM1kgoO2v7040fqCZc_48pnRkTTSbFfUpZf2_JRK5MEf6p1JdFT3O8.QqKiurhgjbx6OZhLYjXkbDrnAAbY.5euhtxiphpSSehOyIuqHOP2TZ Message-ID: <004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net> <200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 19:54:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c6cb7c82-19b0-41d8-9c4f-062d35fd35af X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463925DC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 19:59:28 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO This reminds me of....... One thing I am sure of is that the armseye of the upper garments will not be as high as the originals nor the bottoms as capacious . These would grace any stage quite nicely. Owning originals that are Not comfortable for actual modern wear, in a 'Costume"situation, these would do quite nicely if done in the usual muslin of their counterparts. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 > On Wednesday 02 May 2007 11:38 am, Dawn wrote: >> Can anybody tell me, roughly, what year this pattern might represent? >> >> http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.B5061=x&TI=1 >>0001&page=4 >> >> Is that Victorian? 20th century? Something else? I kind of like the >> nightgown. > > I think it's meant to be a bad rendition of late Victorian underwear and > nightwear. > > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "You've got to have the proper amount of disrespect for what you do." > -- George Mabry > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 19:59:41 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42Nxf5J003857 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:59:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l42NxRUQ014915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 19:59:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l42NwccM051202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 17:58:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l42Nwbe7061703; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:58:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp101.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp101.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.139]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l42NwYAS061621 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:58:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 87305 invoked from network); 2 May 2007 23:58:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.253.200 with login) by smtp101.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2007 23:58:28 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ASP_Q6EVM1nIcEwNglokS6Y4bWCkUYjq9AMYdY8It26j7unEy_qsGaTIgx57AeVEL2kEy5QcCp30RFtasDj0l8IzqVHTgiV2j3OPDchwNo3epHhUGT22W4LUpK6vrT_lGNLAXJUXN15hOAWL3zGkMlNkomiKrV04bJd35jTERlGF2qyJUgf5p1kA36LOznuylnIJGg-- Message-ID: <005601c78d15$c1626830$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net> <001301c78d12$a41f2220$52d8f5dc@user4712b7d135> Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 19:58:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 96b54c2d-4882-43e2-a133-5916ab675925 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 463925DF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 19:59:31 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO They are all found in earlier books/mags of the mid 19th C. like Godeys, and Petersons. Generic intimate garments meant for the boudoir...adapted for the modern fit and aesthetic. kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dawn" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 1:38 AM > Subject: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 > > >> Can anybody tell me, roughly, what year this pattern might represent? >> >> http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.B5061=x&TI=10001&page=4 >> >> Is that Victorian? 20th century? Something else? I kind of like the >> nightgown. >> >> >> >> Dawn >> > I believe the correct timeline for this is 'days of yore' ;-D more period > looking than pink fluffy fleece pyjamas but only superficially resembling > any particular historical style. > Elizabeth > -------------------------------------------- > Elizabeth Walpole > Canberra Australia > ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au > http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ > > > > > > E-mail message checked by PC Tools Spyware Doctor (5.0.0.182) > Database version: 5.07200 > http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 20:01:20 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4301KRL003924 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 20:01:20 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43016Gc016877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 20:01:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4300MJv051433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 18:00:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4300LMq062717; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:00:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [63.240.77.81]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4300IhM062612 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:00:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2007050300001301100ffjbhe>; Thu, 3 May 2007 00:00:13 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net> <200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com> <004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <4e44f11b8f5d56bc1536328ed9fa7eb2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 18:00:11 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 84093e92-a503-45e2-b61c-0b30c417ef43 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46392642.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 20:01:09 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On May 2, 2007, at 5:54 PM, LLOYD MITCHELL wrote: > This reminds me of....... > One thing I am sure of is that the armseye of the upper garments will > not be as high as the originals nor the bottoms as capacious . These > would grace any stage quite nicely. That sounds like a veiled insult to theatrical costume designers. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 20:03:39 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4303cYI004009 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 20:03:38 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4303OrL015921 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 20:03:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4302tDo051689 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 18:02:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4302txG064102; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:02:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4302pYm064023 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:02:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=PVWzgCp5DaHuGxLHGVU4/mUuN7eXifuBLUR70sXX8bLevuS2I8M87KN+VJMg8/g2; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.100.124.1] (helo=boris) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HjOmU-00034I-4N for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 May 2007 20:02:46 -0400 Message-ID: <012c01c78d17$16af2610$0200a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com> <004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 17:07:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd48a96b5e0604e8ca306b95f6f1e4abbd30c965d6d45243e2d1350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.100.124.1 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=15% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5dc996cd-5ece-4ac1-be4c-a5c08e819840 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 463926CC.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 20:03:28 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > This reminds me of....... > One thing I am sure of is that the armseye of the upper garments will not > be as high as the originals nor the bottoms as capacious . These would > grace any stage quite nicely. Owning originals that are Not comfortable > for actual modern wear, in a 'Costume"situation, these would do quite > nicely if done in the usual muslin of their counterparts. > > Kathleen And if you get rid of the velcro closures. Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 20:04:22 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4304MLC004038 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 20:04:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43048Ej018377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 20:04:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4303bvS051802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 18:03:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4303b1F064505; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:03:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s41.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s41.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.177]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4303Zap064434 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:03:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.22]) by bay0-omc2-s41.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Wed, 2 May 2007 17:03:30 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:03:29 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 70.56.181.122 by BAY133-DAV12.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 03 May 2007 00:03:28 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.56.181.122] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8C95AFE150724A2-1654-2A26@WEBMAIL-RA09.sysops.aol.com> <4638F484.8000600@uvm.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th-century short pants???? Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 17:03:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 2 May 2007 17:03:27 -0700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 May 2007 00:03:29.0843 (UTC) FILETIME=[7B290030:01C78D16] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: cdb0292f-54d4-41dd-8f22-95e39bcf741e X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463926F8.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 20:04:12 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO WOW! Thank you for the allegorical insights-and a new pic. to me! I = always just assumed the Bruegel stuff was either loss of control of the = netherstocks, or purposeful rolling down to keep cool. The short = construction is really wild. Picture 12 of 12 has the points in front = but look at the back of the hose in 6 of 12. =20 Ooooh, I have always wanted to do a men's Breughel, and now I want to do = it even more. I betcha' in the reconstruction I might find some clues = as to why they do both these things. =20 As to the "well dressed fellow," I suspect Hope is right, that there is = some meaning for it, but also, dandies did all sorts of weird things, = just as "they" do now. Well known examples are the wearing of hoods = with the face opening on top of the head, and there is even a = contemporary commentary (criticism) of men wearing their trews loose = around their hips (and their plumber's crack showing - I think)! Love this stuff! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 20:07:20 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4307KtC004182 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 20:07:20 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43076Z6017328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 20:07:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4306EAj052048 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 18:06:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4306DES065748; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:06:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.64]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4306Agp065691 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:06:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=dRrn2CsybBLsZfvjZDCX6apO3gAjAEZ0/v5jL9VCUU2QV/2SlOwWiRM6d1svQCLk; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.100.124.1] (helo=boris) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HjOpg-0001cL-Qx for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 May 2007 20:06:05 -0400 Message-ID: <013601c78d17$8d286ef0$0200a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> <4e44f11b8f5d56bc1536328ed9fa7eb2@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 17:11:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd48a96b5e0604e8ca302fe82a6c3cce7d4ca2d4e88014a4647c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.100.124.1 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 696f9d84-6dc6-4c96-be61-fc4ad0bdfc14 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 463927AA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 20:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > On May 2, 2007, at 5:54 PM, LLOYD MITCHELL wrote: > >> This reminds me of....... >> One thing I am sure of is that the armseye of the upper garments will not >> be as high as the originals nor the bottoms as capacious . These would >> grace any stage quite nicely. > > That sounds like a veiled insult to theatrical costume designers. > > Sylrog I sure didn't take it as such. Melusine (who started out in theater and still does theater costume part time) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 20:19:11 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430JBUB004666 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 20:19:11 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l430IuoB009725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 20:19:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l430IKXS053191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 18:18:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430IHkp071946; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:18:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc15.comcast.net (rwcrmhc15.comcast.net [216.148.227.155]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430IE5Y071879 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:18:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc15) with SMTP id <20070503001808m15007nmh2e>; Thu, 3 May 2007 00:18:08 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <013601c78d17$8d286ef0$0200a8c0@boris> References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> <4e44f11b8f5d56bc1536328ed9fa7eb2@ntw.net> <013601c78d17$8d286ef0$0200a8c0@boris> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 18:18:07 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 0fc982be-d12a-4e99-91d6-0c274bd1b394 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 46392A71.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 20:19:00 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On May 2, 2007, at 6:11 PM, Carmen Beaudry wrote: >> On May 2, 2007, at 5:54 PM, LLOYD MITCHELL wrote: >> >>> This reminds me of....... >>> One thing I am sure of is that the armseye of the upper garments >>> will not be as high as the originals nor the bottoms as capacious . >>> These would grace any stage quite nicely. >> >> That sounds like a veiled insult to theatrical costume designers. >> >> Sylrog > > I sure didn't take it as such. > > Melusine (who started out in theater and still does theater costume > part time) You didn't? Am I just being overly sensitive? I often feel like historical re-enactors and reproducers of accurate historical costumes look down their noses to a certain extent at theatrical costume designers because the latter don't usually attempt complete authenticity. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 20:29:17 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430TH61005112 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 20:29:17 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l430T2XW019703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 20:29:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l430SfTG054309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 18:28:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430ScRe077748; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:28:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s19.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s19.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.91]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430SZML077686 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:28:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from praxis_729@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.19.11]) by bay0-omc1-s19.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Wed, 2 May 2007 17:28:30 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:28:30 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.19.200 by by109fd.bay109.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 03 May 2007 00:28:27 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.133.199.144] X-Originating-Email: [praxis_729@hotmail.com] X-Sender: praxis_729@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: From: "Paula Praxis" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 17:28:27 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 May 2007 00:28:30.0102 (UTC) FILETIME=[F9625B60:01C78D19] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: cdd66ae2-bb65-43be-8542-c7b6cbfe9acb X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 46392CCF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 20:29:06 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO >From: Sylvia Rognstad >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: Historical Costume >Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 >Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 18:18:07 -0600 >MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) >Received: from www1.indra.com ([209.169.0.7]) by >bay0-mc6-f14.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Wed, 2 >May 2007 17:18:51 -0700 >Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])by >www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id >l430IQ96053211(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 >verify=OK);Wed, 2 May 2007 18:18:26 -0600 (MDT)(envelope-from >h-costume-bounces@indra.com) >Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])by net.indra.com >(8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430IHkr071946;Wed, 2 May 2007 18:18:22 -0600 >(MDT)(envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) >Received: from rwcrmhc15.comcast.net (rwcrmhc15.comcast.net >[216.148.227.155])by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id >l430IE5Y071879for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:18:15 -0600 >(MDT)(envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) >Received: from >[192.168.1.2](c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99])by >comcast.net (rwcrmhc15) with SMTPid <20070503001808m15007nmh2e>; Thu, 3 May >2007 00:18:08 +0000 >X-Message-Info: >LsUYwwHHNt2yG3f+3DmPOSrAeQBwEMtYGyCJ0Mzf5F83SYs4Yhl5mnh7m57zeg8w >References: ><4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD><4e44f11b8f5d56bc1536328ed9fa7eb2@ntw.net><013601c78d17$8d286ef0$0200a8c0@boris> >X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) >X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% >X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Historical Costume >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >Return-Path: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 May 2007 00:18:51.0682 (UTC) >FILETIME=[A09E7820:01C78D18] > > >On May 2, 2007, at 6:11 PM, Carmen Beaudry wrote: > >>>On May 2, 2007, at 5:54 PM, LLOYD MITCHELL wrote: >>> >>>>This reminds me of....... >>>>One thing I am sure of is that the armseye of the upper garments will >>>>not be as high as the originals nor the bottoms as capacious . These >>>>would grace any stage quite nicely. >>> >>>That sounds like a veiled insult to theatrical costume designers. >>> >>>Sylrog >> >>I sure didn't take it as such. >> >>Melusine (who started out in theater and still does theater costume part >>time) > >You didn't? Am I just being overly sensitive? I often feel like >historical re-enactors and reproducers of accurate historical costumes look >down their noses to a certain extent at theatrical costume designers >because the latter don't usually attempt complete authenticity. > >Sylrog And with good reason - someimes changes are soooooo fast you cn't be historically accurate and velcro saves the day and the costume! Paula > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 20:31:42 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430Vgos005223 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 20:31:42 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l430VSOf001339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 20:31:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l430Ueac054505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 18:30:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430UdgG078846; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:30:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.141]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l430Uab3078746 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:30:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 14581 invoked from network); 3 May 2007 00:30:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.253.200 with login) by smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2007 00:30:30 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: JWRBIqgVM1nf1hvL1hqHqUyn3vjfYpTxdxZR5Bqlw7enEWlinVv8LESYhwI076CI5.zhdX3ctqCAg7Uo4hQMkDJ6x9E- Message-ID: <006501c78d1a$39fda9e0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> <4e44f11b8f5d56bc1536328ed9fa7eb2@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 20:30:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 14594f39-cdd7-44a0-a4e1-c3b65b3c8927 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46392D60.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 20:31:32 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Note quite. Having been a costume designer for over 30 years, I long ago learned to suit the desired look with a present aesthetic...ie., comfort. For the reinactor, how many of them are going to be parading about in their undies meant for the boudoir? Every time I tried to put my antique on view (stage)mI gotthe response ":too tight. Do you want me to parade looking like a scarecrow?" So, I occasionally treat myseld by wearing my oldies, content to know I am being historically correct. No offense intended. Kath;leen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 > > On May 2, 2007, at 5:54 PM, LLOYD MITCHELL wrote: > >> This reminds me of....... >> One thing I am sure of is that the armseye of the upper garments will not >> be as high as the originals nor the bottoms as capacious . These would >> grace any stage quite nicely. > > That sounds like a veiled insult to theatrical costume designers. > > Sylrog > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 20:32:23 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430WNea005245 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 20:32:23 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l430W9Xd003358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 20:32:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l430V834054573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 18:31:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430V8Ag079102; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:31:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430V5KU079041 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:31:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Jb5uI/u2Cs5BeALiDPK56QbSfUsiHS7dDfsdMTOGqWrlOR2LTC+clsz48MZQOn04; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.100.124.1] (helo=boris) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HjPDn-000163-JX for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 May 2007 20:30:59 -0400 Message-ID: <014d01c78d1b$08347f00$0200a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD><4e44f11b8f5d56bc1536328ed9fa7eb2@ntw.net><013601c78d17$8d286ef0$0200a8c0@boris> Subject: Re: [h-cost]Theatrer vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern 5061) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 17:36:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd48a96b5e0604e8ca3018dd8ab023b82c40666fa475841a1c7a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.100.124.1 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=15% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5bbf75ba-fe45-4d0c-9d57-0cd1a6b68182 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 46392D89.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 20:32:12 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO (snip about percieved insult to theatrical designers) > You didn't? Am I just being overly sensitive? I often feel like > historical re-enactors and reproducers of accurate historical costumes > look down their noses to a certain extent at theatrical costume designers > because the latter don't usually attempt complete authenticity. > > Sylrog I may be a bit optimistic, and I know that some historic costumers automatically discount anyone who designs for the stage, but I don't think this was the case here. I'm sure the original poster will correct me if I'm wrong. I do historic reenactment and recreation. Most of my customers want very historically accurate clothing for reenactment. That being said, I enjoy the different emphasis to costuming for the theater. I enjoy trying to realize the director's vision, to express the character through the costume and evoke the various moods. I do try to make that historically accurate whenever possible, but sometimes it's not. Whether that's the production of Hamlet that was done all in dull browns, greys and other muddy shades due to the director's ideas, or the production of The Misenthrope that we did in 1635 costumes rather than the 1670's that were actually appropriate, because we could borrow the one, and we would have had to make the others, and we had a $500 costume budget. Wasn't going to get done, and while it somewhat offended my sensibilities, for the most part the audience didn't know it wasn't meant to be. I'm actually developing a lecture for next year on why and when you would or would not want to be completely accurate with a costume. It's just in the ruminating stage right now, but I'd welcome any thoughts from y'all. Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 20:35:11 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430Z7Dh005380 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 20:35:07 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l430YreL012387 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 20:34:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l430YJ9n055079 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 18:34:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430YIcK080932; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:34:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from flpvm23.prodigy.net (flpvm23.prodigy.net [207.115.20.53]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430YFUY080848 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:34:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) X-ORBL: [75.46.187.64] Received: from [75.46.187.64] (adsl-75-46-187-64.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net [75.46.187.64]) by flpvm23.prodigy.net (8.13.8 out.dk.spool/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l430YBYi013115 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:34:11 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> <4e44f11b8f5d56bc1536328ed9fa7eb2@ntw.net> <013601c78d17$8d286ef0$0200a8c0@boris> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: now costume design, was Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 20:33:55 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7f4e19e5-fc01-4d97-805f-b9683f37dcdb X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 46392E2D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 20:34:57 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I didn't either. As both a historian and a costume designer, I see no reason to be embarrassed about the very good reasons why accuracy is often compromised on the stage. I still groan when I watch films with terribly bastardized fashions, but I can often tell why they did it. Telling the story is first priority. Accuracy is icing for the geeks. :) Melanie Schuessler On May 2, 2007, at 8:18 PM, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > > On May 2, 2007, at 6:11 PM, Carmen Beaudry wrote: > >>> On May 2, 2007, at 5:54 PM, LLOYD MITCHELL wrote: >>> >>>> This reminds me of....... >>>> One thing I am sure of is that the armseye of the upper garments >>>> will not be as high as the originals nor the bottoms as >>>> capacious . These would grace any stage quite nicely. >>> >>> That sounds like a veiled insult to theatrical costume designers. >>> >>> Sylrog >> >> I sure didn't take it as such. >> >> Melusine (who started out in theater and still does theater >> costume part time) > > You didn't? Am I just being overly sensitive? I often feel like > historical re-enactors and reproducers of accurate historical > costumes look down their noses to a certain extent at theatrical > costume designers because the latter don't usually attempt > complete authenticity. > > Sylrog > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 20:35:50 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430ZoAX005404 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 20:35:50 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l430ZYqD003591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 20:35:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l430YqID055133 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 18:34:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430Yp5i081213; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:34:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s19.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s19.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.219]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430Yn6J081139 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:34:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.13]) by bay0-omc3-s19.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Wed, 2 May 2007 17:34:43 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:34:43 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 70.56.181.122 by BAY133-DAV3.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 03 May 2007 00:34:40 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.56.181.122] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD><4e44f11b8f5d56bc1536328ed9fa7eb2@ntw.net><013601c78d17$8d286ef0$0200a8c0@boris> Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 17:34:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 2 May 2007 17:34:39 -0700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 May 2007 00:34:43.0916 (UTC) FILETIME=[D831D8C0:01C78D1A] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=13% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 33e94c95-a872-48b6-a4d4-0b51e7fc00ad X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46392E56.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 20:35:39 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Me neither, I came from a theatrical background as well. I didn't take = it that way, and I figure if people can't see the difference between = entertainment and factual reproduction, (and value and necessity for = each), they aren't very bright, and aren't worth bothering over! =20 Ooooo, meanie me! ;} (I should say, that my dad, who I respected very much, was a dramaturge, = and had a very difficult time watching anything (from film to theater) = without criticizing it. =20 It was kind of funny, because he could read books that way....loved = Agatha Christie, and for that matter loved, of all things, Mary Hartman, = Mary Hartman!=20 Sg ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Sylvia Rognstad=20 To: Historical Costume=20 Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 You didn't? Am I just being overly sensitive? I often feel like=20 historical re-enactors and reproducers of accurate historical costumes = look down their noses to a certain extent at theatrical costume=20 designers because the latter don't usually attempt complete=20 authenticity. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com = http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 20:37:59 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430bxnc005478 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 20:37:59 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l430bjNu004763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 20:37:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l430b3MW055347 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 18:37:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430b2pn082365; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:37:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alnrmhc16.comcast.net (alnrmhc16.comcast.net [204.127.225.96]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430aw8p082252 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:37:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc16) with SMTP id <20070503003653b1600ho1c1e>; Thu, 3 May 2007 00:36:53 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <006501c78d1a$39fda9e0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> <4e44f11b8f5d56bc1536328ed9fa7eb2@ntw.net> <006501c78d1a$39fda9e0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <7a4b7e7b6b3de0bcb95886f97f668ad5@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 18:36:52 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 72249095-77bc-442f-8e87-5f929b58f44c X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46392ED9.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 20:37:48 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On May 2, 2007, at 6:30 PM, LLOYD MITCHELL wrote: > Note quite. Having been a costume designer for over 30 years, I long > ago learned to suit the desired look with a present aesthetic...ie., > comfort. For the reinactor, how many of them are going to be parading > about in their undies meant for the boudoir? Every time I tried to > put my antique on view (stage)mI gotthe response ":too tight. Do you > want me to parade looking like a scarecrow?" So, I occasionally treat > myseld by wearing my oldies, content to know I am being historically > correct. > > No offense intended. Thanks for the explanation. I see your point now. Sylrog > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 20:39:21 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430dKS6005536 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 20:39:20 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l430d6ZI024288 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 20:39:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l430bcb6055398 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 18:37:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430bcer082692; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:37:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.140]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l430bYOC082610 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:37:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 84108 invoked from network); 3 May 2007 00:37:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.253.200 with login) by smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2007 00:37:28 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: SDbRTRsVM1nQlz7Zsjp9E6rvoA5PJv251xNuYBQJmx7OwLV2GCZGkXGPuG32TM3pw0yF7iS1SlTQSJKp.526bTd7x6GliL.e_bDL.IoXLrkW5c9kKCtr Message-ID: <007601c78d1b$39e3eae0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> <012c01c78d17$16af2610$0200a8c0@boris> Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 20:36:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: df328812-c0e1-478c-ba6f-c540e3fa3133 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 46392F2A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 20:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I didn't go so far as to read the instructions. Alas... Presently working in miniature, I struggle nightly in trying to create my doll costumes using all the pieces that would have made the shapes if I were doing them for people; it is hard indeed to compromise, but I have not yet bent to Velcro. Yeah. At least the dolls don't complain if I pin the waist band (As I am finding to be the method more often used in times of youe. kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 >> This reminds me of....... >> One thing I am sure of is that the armseye of the upper garments will not >> be as high as the originals nor the bottoms as capacious . These would >> grace any stage quite nicely. Owning originals that are Not comfortable >> for actual modern wear, in a 'Costume"situation, these would do quite >> nicely if done in the usual muslin of their counterparts. >> >> Kathleen > > And if you get rid of the velcro closures. > > Melusine > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 20:40:35 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430eZUc005585 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 20:40:35 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l430eL3U013444 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 20:40:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l430db8E055568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 18:39:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430dafD083735; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:39:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alnrmhc15.comcast.net (alnrmhc15.comcast.net [204.127.225.95]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430dX9s083665 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:39:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc15) with SMTP id <20070503003928b1500sn2k1e>; Thu, 3 May 2007 00:39:28 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <014d01c78d1b$08347f00$0200a8c0@boris> References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD><4e44f11b8f5d56bc1536328ed9fa7eb2@ntw.net><013601c78d17$8d286ef0$0200a8c0@boris> <014d01c78d1b$08347f00$0200a8c0@boris> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <0f3cc72f81b4f335262f51fc87cbaaa2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost]Theatrer vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern 5061) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 18:39:27 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 78eec65e-f6f4-46bd-a1de-bdae3b0e55e0 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 46392F75.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 20:40:24 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > > I'm actually developing a lecture for next year on why and when you > would or would not want to be completely accurate with a costume. > It's just in the ruminating stage right now, but I'd welcome any > thoughts from y'all. That sounds like a very good topic for a lecture. I look forward to hearing everyone's opinions. Sylrog > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 20:44:30 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430iU5V005749 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 20:44:30 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l430iGjw008011 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 20:44:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l430eK62055661 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 18:40:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430eKa6084161; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:40:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430eHjC084080 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:40:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=YjkPToEwg8YRz8NFcnXlnCXRVfEAwC9TByXACzoGvZGuxlPb53Yh3gvAeP6T4iSj; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.100.124.1] (helo=boris) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HjPMh-0003Ik-Kg for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 May 2007 20:40:11 -0400 Message-ID: <016001c78d1c$514a6820$0200a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD><4e44f11b8f5d56bc1536328ed9fa7eb2@ntw.net><013601c78d17$8d286ef0$0200a8c0@boris> Subject: Re: now costume design, was Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 17:45:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd48a96b5e0604e8ca301c26ba863dc3d33c93fe5b2b5bb10998350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.100.124.1 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=15% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 742c8be6-3256-44dc-9551-7ef8381a6c93 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46393060.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 20:44:19 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO >I didn't either. As both a historian and a costume designer, I see no >reason to be embarrassed about the very good reasons why accuracy > is >often compromised on the stage. I still groan when I watch films with >terribly bastardized fashions, but I can often tell why they did it. >Telling the story is first priority. Accuracy is icing for the geeks. :) > > Melanie Schuessler Exactly. The ones that really irk me are the ones where the story would be better served by most accurate costumes and they still don't. I just read a very interesting article about Memoirs of a Geisha. Lisa Dalby, who is the only non-Japanese ever trained as a geisha, was a consultant on the film, and was upset that they didn't use the correct make-up, but did a modified version, until she overheard a couple of stagehands talking about how wierd the complete white-faced look was to them. She realized that, in order to portray the women as beautiful and sexy, the traditional make-up had to be modified for the modern and western audience, that where a Japanese (and especially an older Japanese audience would see them as being beautiful, the intended audience would not. Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 20:44:57 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430iviQ005774 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 20:44:57 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l430ihIt014424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 20:44:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l430i9Sr056229 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 18:44:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430i4pg086538; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:44:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430i2UI086473 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:44:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=VCIlsV+Er/8MKD8io1OH1Tg2ABRCpT45FgJFgn6cYr9CwJk/fKKX4PV46DTm5Uw2; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.100.124.1] (helo=boris) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HjPQK-0007Lx-LA for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 May 2007 20:43:56 -0400 Message-ID: <016b01c78d1c$d76d6560$0200a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD><012c01c78d17$16af2610$0200a8c0@boris> <007601c78d1b$39e3eae0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 17:49:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd48a96b5e0604e8ca306abfb0e6655906a0cf2db02f6bc5f712350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.100.124.1 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=15% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 722981f0-93c4-46e1-8f1f-97f823019686 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 4639307B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 20:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO >I didn't go so far as to read the instructions. Alas... > > Presently working in miniature, I struggle nightly in trying to create my > doll costumes using all the pieces that would have made the shapes if I > were doing them for people; it is hard indeed to compromise, but I have > not yet bent to Velcro. Yeah. At least the dolls don't complain if I > pin the waist band (As I am finding to be the method more often used in > times of youe. > > kathleen And I didn't think of quick changes....I'm not sure why, as I'd like to have a dollar for every 30-second change I've had to sew for. My favorite was the 1880's day dress to 1880's evening dress in 92 seconds. Yes, I put multiple zippers in those, and had 4 people dressing and undressing her in the wings. Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 20:50:58 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430otSj006075 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 20:50:55 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l430ofKv024257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 20:50:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l430o8b0056859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 18:50:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430o7d4090079; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:50:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from flpvm09.prodigy.net (flpvm09.prodigy.net [207.115.20.39]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430o4DE089996 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:50:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) X-ORBL: [75.46.187.64] Received: from [75.46.187.64] (adsl-75-46-187-64.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net [75.46.187.64]) by flpvm09.prodigy.net (8.13.8 out.dk.spool/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l430nnG0019582 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 17:49:50 -0700 In-Reply-To: <016001c78d1c$514a6820$0200a8c0@boris> References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD><4e44f11b8f5d56bc1536328ed9fa7eb2@ntw.net><013601c78d17$8d286ef0$0200a8c0@boris> <016001c78d1c$514a6820$0200a8c0@boris> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: now costume design, was Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 20:49:41 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: cea25069-709f-433e-acc6-882eb0ef8f9c X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 463931E1.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 20:50:45 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On May 2, 2007, at 8:45 PM, Carmen Beaudry wrote: >> I didn't either. As both a historian and a costume designer, I >> see no reason to be embarrassed about the very good reasons why >> accuracy > is often compromised on the stage. I still groan when >> I watch films with terribly bastardized fashions, but I can often >> tell why they did it. Telling the story is first priority. >> Accuracy is icing for the geeks. :) >> >> Melanie Schuessler > > Exactly. The ones that really irk me are the ones where the story > would be better served by most accurate costumes and they still don't. Well, yes. There's no excuse for those! > I just read a very interesting article about Memoirs of a Geisha. > Lisa Dalby, who is the only non-Japanese ever trained as a geisha, > was a consultant on the film, and was upset that they didn't use > the correct make-up, but did a modified version, until she > overheard a couple of stagehands talking about how wierd the > complete white-faced look was to them. She realized that, in order > to portray the women as beautiful and sexy, the traditional make-up > had to be modified for the modern and western audience, that where > a Japanese (and especially an older Japanese audience would see > them as being beautiful, the intended audience would not. Yes. I actually give my costume design classes a lecture about when to stick with accuracy and when to bend it, and it's mostly about communication with the audience. If they're not getting what you want to convey about your character--that they're beautiful, that they're old, that they're sinister, or whatever--it's not a good costume design, no matter how accurate it is. Our visual codes for certain traits and our aesthetic is so different from that of the past that the costume designer often has to make changes so that the audience will get the messages the costumes are supposed to be sending. Of course, actor safety, comfort, and the ability to do quick- changes, dance moves, sword fights, or whatever else needs to happen in the show also often have an impact. I once draped an HMS Pinafore set in the 1880s (really tight sleeves on really tight bodices _plus_ bustles) and was informed after all the mockups were done that one of the ladies had to do a handstand onstage. Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 21:01:58 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4311u0e006603 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 21:01:56 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4311gBo028883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 21:01:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43114mg058020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 19:01:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l431139O096625; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:01:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.140]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4310xBV096512 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:01:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 18388 invoked from network); 3 May 2007 01:00:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.253.200 with login) by smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2007 01:00:53 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 8tV4dQcVM1lxKXcpzHKwr460CiVHGwvV67v1mpgkrvgU3z5_5mTyGsTB7yYywzYhKQguboHguC8wekcONWEbf2CnFXI- Message-ID: <000701c78d1e$79dfbdb0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD><4e44f11b8f5d56bc1536328ed9fa7eb2@ntw.net><013601c78d17$8d286ef0$0200a8c0@boris> Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 21:00:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a1273468-029f-4137-99ee-5a813412b79a X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 46393476.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 21:01:46 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Sylrog, I have only come to h-costume since about when It began in the '90s. My only connection before that was the items accumulating in my private collection which were all the contact with the realities of the past re color, fabrics, and fit. I was working very hard to translate this real info when designing for the stage. One rather amusing attempt at doing h-costume was a period production in which I was determined to use all the closures available for a medieval setting. Boy, did I learn some new concepts re theater at the dress rehearsal. Most of the characters had one or more costume changes intra acts. So much for ties and lacing!! Another interesting experiment was several years later when we were doing "La Ronde". All the women of the circle had to appear in (at least) undies and such as are previewed in the present pattern under discussion. My creativity was in designing the intimate apparel that would also project the station in life as well as the modesty required for a local conservative audience. This pattern would have delighted me then as it does now for the other real world of contempory middle America theater. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 8:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 > > On May 2, 2007, at 6:11 PM, Carmen Beaudry wrote: > >>> On May 2, 2007, at 5:54 PM, LLOYD MITCHELL wrote: >>> >>>> This reminds me of....... >>>> One thing I am sure of is that the armseye of the upper garments will >>>> not be as high as the originals nor the bottoms as capacious . These >>>> would grace any stage quite nicely. >>> >>> That sounds like a veiled insult to theatrical costume designers. >>> >>> Sylrog >> >> I sure didn't take it as such. >> >> Melusine (who started out in theater and still does theater costume part >> time) > > You didn't? Am I just being overly sensitive? I often feel like > historical re-enactors and reproducers of accurate historical costumes > look down their noses to a certain extent at theatrical costume designers > because the latter don't usually attempt complete authenticity. > > Sylrog > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 21:05:32 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4315TKV006795 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 21:05:29 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4315Fch029640 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 21:05:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4314do0058368 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 19:04:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4314d1b098521; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:04:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4314adZ098491 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:04:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A353170304D6; Thu, 03 May 2007 00:56:51 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost]Theatrer vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern 5061) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 18:04:37 -0700 Message-ID: <004101c78d1f$05485ec0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <014d01c78d1b$08347f00$0200a8c0@boris> X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2c999b78-d848-43b5-93a6-e394936397dc X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4639354C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 21:05:19 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Thoughts: -30 second costume changes. -$300 costume budget for the whole show-12 actors. -Director's vision-often more artistic than historically accurate, so = you try and compromise. -Lack of a crew to make everything you envision. Sometimes it just = comes down to not enough time. You put someone in something close, just so = they can go onstage in something other than their own clothes. =20 -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] = On Behalf Of Carmen Beaudry Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 5:36 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost]Theatrer vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern = 5061) (snip about percieved insult to theatrical designers) > You didn't? Am I just being overly sensitive? I often feel like=20 > historical re-enactors and reproducers of accurate historical costumes = > look down their noses to a certain extent at theatrical costume = designers=20 > because the latter don't usually attempt complete authenticity. > > Sylrog I may be a bit optimistic, and I know that some historic costumers=20 automatically discount anyone who designs for the stage, but I don't = think=20 this was the case here. I'm sure the original poster will correct me if = I'm wrong. I do historic reenactment and recreation. Most of my customers want = very=20 historically accurate clothing for reenactment. That being said, I = enjoy=20 the different emphasis to costuming for the theater. I enjoy trying to=20 realize the director's vision, to express the character through the = costume=20 and evoke the various moods. I do try to make that historically = accurate=20 whenever possible, but sometimes it's not. Whether that's the = production of Hamlet that was done all in dull browns, greys and other muddy shades = due to the director's ideas, or the production of The Misenthrope that we did = in=20 1635 costumes rather than the 1670's that were actually appropriate, = because we could borrow the one, and we would have had to make the others, and = we=20 had a $500 costume budget. Wasn't going to get done, and while it = somewhat=20 offended my sensibilities, for the most part the audience didn't know it = wasn't meant to be. I'm actually developing a lecture for next year on why and when you = would or would not want to be completely accurate with a costume. It's just in = the=20 ruminating stage right now, but I'd welcome any thoughts from y'all. Melusine=20 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 21:07:36 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4317ar9006890 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 21:07:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4317Mvn018299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 21:07:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4316WSV058533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 19:06:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4316Vg9099514; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:06:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.141]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4316Sml099441 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:06:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 66336 invoked from network); 3 May 2007 01:06:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.253.200 with login) by smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2007 01:06:23 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: rePeBGwVM1l9d_WkeLj2gl9UQ7iBzY2h3fGxE_RHir5ICTyYQspboKauKaj9boE4BtABXRiuZpmWmo2HRETgcPy7NNE- Message-ID: <001601c78d1f$3e9e8ff0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD><012c01c78d17$16af2610$0200a8c0@boris><007601c78d1b$39e3eae0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> <016b01c78d1c$d76d6560$0200a8c0@boris> Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 21:06:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: d7ba67e2-c3fb-4da5-b3fa-97deaf2d6345 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 463935CA.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 21:07:25 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Chuckle...And I bet you didn't try to enter that one in a contest? Except, perhaps "And how many Zippers did you manage to get in on this one?" Makes me think of the first time I remember the leather store on the board walk of Provincetown !! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 > >I didn't go so far as to read the instructions. Alas... >> >> Presently working in miniature, I struggle nightly in trying to create my >> doll costumes using all the pieces that would have made the shapes if I >> were doing them for people; it is hard indeed to compromise, but I have >> not yet bent to Velcro. Yeah. At least the dolls don't complain if I >> pin the waist band (As I am finding to be the method more often used in >> times of youe. >> >> kathleen > > And I didn't think of quick changes....I'm not sure why, as I'd like to > have a dollar for every 30-second change I've had to sew for. My favorite > was the 1880's day dress to 1880's evening dress in 92 seconds. Yes, I > put multiple zippers in those, and had 4 people dressing and undressing > her in the wings. > > Melusine > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 21:08:57 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4318uRZ006956 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 21:08:56 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4318gHO030567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 21:08:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4318F7Z058776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 19:08:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4318EOQ000883; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:08:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4318BK3000787 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:08:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.bc1.128040ff (41811) for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 21:07:51 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 21:07:49 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost]Theatrer vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern 5061) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5365 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: baad3032-7fb8-4abf-aaa7-0b0df9942db6 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4639361A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 21:08:46 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/2/2007 8:39:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sylvia@ntw.net writes: I'm actually developing a lecture for next year on why and when you > would or would not want to be completely accurate with a costume. > It's just in the ruminating stage right now, but I'd welcome any > thoughts from y'all. That sounds like a very good topic for a lecture. I look forward to hearing everyone's opinions. The Midwest Region of the Costume Society of America's symposium next fall is on all aspects of "costume," including theater and reenactment. Unfortunately, the call for papers closed a while ago. But I think it is a very interesting topic, too--I've worked in theatre and done reenacting. Both require compromises (no matter what reenactors say!)--but what compromises, and why, is definitely a thought-provoking topic. Just one small example--Mel Gibson in "The Patriot" did not wear accurately cut breeches with the baggy back, but an experienced theatrical/film designer friend of mine pointed out that most public would associate baggy pants with comedy. The only problem with that particular compromise, I think, was that the makers of the film took great pride in pointing out what meticulous research they did on costume of the period--okay, so they did the research and then adapted it, as most designers do, but it seemed rather misleading. Ann Wass ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 21:09:05 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l431952S006966 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 21:09:05 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4318pHk012347 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 21:08:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l430VpO7054853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 18:31:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430Vnxo079558; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:31:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (root@static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net [71.162.243.5]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430Vj9I079418 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:31:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l42NhiRK004581 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:43:44 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 20:40:51 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net> <013601c78d17$8d286ef0$0200a8c0@boris> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200705022040.51640.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 525896ec-ffe6-4d74-8c2b-16f429beca4f X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 46393623.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 21:08:55 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Wednesday 02 May 2007 8:18 pm, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > On May 2, 2007, at 6:11 PM, Carmen Beaudry wrote: > >> On May 2, 2007, at 5:54 PM, LLOYD MITCHELL wrote: [snip] > > I sure didn't take it as such. > > > > Melusine (who started out in theater and still does theater costume > > part time) > > You didn't? Am I just being overly sensitive? I often feel like > historical re-enactors and reproducers of accurate historical costumes > look down their noses to a certain extent at theatrical costume > designers because the latter don't usually attempt complete > authenticity. Theatrical costumes need to meet different demands than reenactment costumes, and theatrical costumes often need to be made on a tight deadline to boot. Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges, and expecting "complete" historical accuracy of theatre costumes is absurd. -- Cathy Raymond "You've got to have the proper amount of disrespect for what you do." -- George Mabry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 21:09:06 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l431952U006966 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 21:09:06 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4318pHm012347 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 21:08:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l430ahM6055298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 18:36:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430ag6d082142; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:36:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alnrmhc16.comcast.net (alnrmhc16.comcast.net [206.18.177.56]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l430a39a081775 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:36:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc16) with SMTP id <20070503003558b1600ho1c0e>; Thu, 3 May 2007 00:35:58 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <1161c76961892012c0cdaf35f86a1798@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 18:35:57 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8df39729-9b19-4137-999e-f66cf5125d72 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 46393623.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 21:08:56 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On May 2, 2007, at 6:28 PM, Paula Praxis wrote: > > > >> F >> On May 2, 2007, at 6:11 PM, Carmen Beaudry wrote: >> >>>> On May 2, 2007, at 5:54 PM, LLOYD MITCHELL wrote: >>>> >>>>> This reminds me of....... >>>>> One thing I am sure of is that the armseye of the upper garments >>>>> will not be as high as the originals nor the bottoms as capacious >>>>> . These would grace any stage quite nicely. >>>> >>>> That sounds like a veiled insult to theatrical costume designers. >>>> >>>> Sylrog >>> >>> I sure didn't take it as such. >>> >>> Melusine (who started out in theater and still does theater costume >>> part time) >> >> You didn't? Am I just being overly sensitive? I often feel like >> historical re-enactors and reproducers of accurate historical >> costumes look down their noses to a certain extent at theatrical >> costume designers because the latter don't usually attempt complete >> authenticity. >> >> Sylrog > > And with good reason - someimes changes are soooooo fast you cn't be > historically accurate and velcro saves the day and the costume! > Paula Good point, although I wasn't really thinking of closures as being the issue. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 21:10:50 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l431AoYD007050 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 21:10:50 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l431AauY031319 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 21:10:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4319w8n058931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 19:09:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4319vNp001922; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:09:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.70]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4319sHd001815 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:09:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=L2JUUqLcEMe6VZq5ns2DofZNFXoOIF5ZH5eU25D19aZb9euMRERSfK+VdHYveRVB; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.100.124.1] (helo=boris) by elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HjPpM-0003qT-OB for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 May 2007 21:09:49 -0400 Message-ID: <018301c78d20$74abe240$0200a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD><012c01c78d17$16af2610$0200a8c0@boris><007601c78d1b$39e3eae0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD><016b01c78d1c$d76d6560$0200a8c0@boris> <001601c78d1f$3e9e8ff0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 18:14:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd48a96b5e0604e8ca308f3661a84ec644d33ae9702e2e88ebc7350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.100.124.1 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9568d91a-fd9a-40fe-8f34-204d24d7bd3e X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4639368C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 21:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > Chuckle...And I bet you didn't try to enter that one in a contest? > Except, > perhaps "And how many Zippers did you manage to get in on this > one?" > Makes me think of the first time I remember the leather store on the board > walk of Provincetown !! > Kathleen Nope, and you couldn't see the zippers from off stage, either. Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 21:14:00 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l431DweN007197 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 21:13:58 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l431DiFE023157 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 21:13:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l431DAKI059243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 19:13:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l431D9F1003773; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:13:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l431D6jc003756 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:13:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A553FC0522; Thu, 03 May 2007 01:05:23 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: now costume design, was Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 18:13:09 -0700 Message-ID: <004201c78d20$367dea40$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <016001c78d1c$514a6820$0200a8c0@boris> X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 212bf056-a79f-4a37-9d3e-b90c923e618f X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46393748.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 21:13:47 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO She wrote a book, too, "Geisha", By Liza Dalby ISBN #0-394-72893-9. Mine was published by Vintage Books, division of = Random House, in 1985. Originally published Berkeley: University of California Press 1983 -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] = On Behalf Of Carmen Beaudry Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 5:45 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: now costume design, was Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern = 5061 >I didn't either. As both a historian and a costume designer, I see no = >reason to be embarrassed about the very good reasons why accuracy > is = >often compromised on the stage. I still groan when I watch films with = >terribly bastardized fashions, but I can often tell why they did it.=20 >Telling the story is first priority. Accuracy is icing for the geeks. = :) > > Melanie Schuessler Exactly. The ones that really irk me are the ones where the story would = be=20 better served by most accurate costumes and they still don't. I just read a very interesting article about Memoirs of a Geisha. Lisa=20 Dalby, who is the only non-Japanese ever trained as a geisha, was a=20 consultant on the film, and was upset that they didn't use the correct=20 make-up, but did a modified version, until she overheard a couple of=20 stagehands talking about how wierd the complete white-faced look was to=20 them. She realized that, in order to portray the women as beautiful and = sexy, the traditional make-up had to be modified for the modern and = western=20 audience, that where a Japanese (and especially an older Japanese = audience=20 would see them as being beautiful, the intended audience would not. Melusine=20 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 21:17:34 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l431HW0U007367 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 21:17:32 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l431HImM014537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 21:17:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l431G4OX059597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 19:16:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l431G3Li005298; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:16:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from flpi102.sbcis.sbc.com (flpi102.sbcis.sbc.com [207.115.20.71]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l431G0f4005236 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:16:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) X-ORBL: [75.46.187.64] Received: from [75.46.187.64] (adsl-75-46-187-64.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net [75.46.187.64]) by flpi102.sbcis.sbc.com (8.13.8 out.dk.spool/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l431FlLC022611 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:15:48 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <1570047A-4C81-46AC-AB93-B3EBBB2020F5@faucet.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: [h-cost]Theatrer vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern 5061) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 21:15:42 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9616df2a-5bbe-4b6f-9fd4-b4dc9ea19d47 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 4639381E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 21:17:22 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On May 2, 2007, at 9:07 PM, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > > The Midwest Region of the Costume Society of America's symposium > next fall > is on all aspects of "costume," including theater and reenactment. I'll be giving a paper on the impact of historic re-enacting on the study of clothing history in the recent past. And I'll be talking a bit about how re-enacting blends theatre and history. Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 21:21:00 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l431L0Ln007497 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 21:21:00 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l431KjvD008215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 21:20:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l431Jlrb059909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 19:19:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l431Jl7G007100; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:19:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.141]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l431JiQ1007039 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:19:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 84779 invoked from network); 3 May 2007 01:19:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.253.200 with login) by smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2007 01:19:38 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: pPxMtNUVM1kq_U_7jc4St0Y4FGWkx6Jm_PcczURYn4JjYx_H3O.j5_S1L894fHfyHYJwxMC4sXYyVAVA3HRfwiWdtng7GgojmWPGQMBicTVy_cYNP9ox Message-ID: <001b01c78d21$1872c380$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD><4e44f11b8f5d56bc1536328ed9fa7eb2@ntw.net><013601c78d17$8d286ef0$0200a8c0@boris> <016001c78d1c$514a6820$0200a8c0@boris> Subject: Re: now costume design, was Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 21:19:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b27be5e0-1935-40d2-8cd6-104765860370 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463938ED.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 21:20:49 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO What a great point! Anne Hollander does introduce this kind of connection in her (eye-opening) book, "Seeing Through Clothes". Many, many times I go back to read the parts that discuss past fashion always being interpreted in terms of the present aesthetics. I am greatly amused with the present retro of the 1970s...bell bottoms, angeltops and other nostalgic tops and bottoms. Hip-hugging and boob lifting. But the colors are not the same, the designs of the fabric and the fabrics themselves are softer,but perhaps bolder? The originals were the natural outcome of the "burn the bra (or whatever)generation" ... Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 8:45 PM Subject: Re: now costume design, was Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 > >I didn't either. As both a historian and a costume designer, I see no > >reason to be embarrassed about the very good reasons why accuracy > is > >often compromised on the stage. I still groan when I watch films with > >terribly bastardized fashions, but I can often tell why they did it. > >Telling the story is first priority. Accuracy is icing for the geeks. > >:) >> >> Melanie Schuessler > > Exactly. The ones that really irk me are the ones where the story would > be better served by most accurate costumes and they still don't. > > I just read a very interesting article about Memoirs of a Geisha. Lisa > Dalby, who is the only non-Japanese ever trained as a geisha, was a > consultant on the film, and was upset that they didn't use the correct > make-up, but did a modified version, until she overheard a couple of > stagehands talking about how wierd the complete white-faced look was to > them. She realized that, in order to portray the women as beautiful and > sexy, the traditional make-up had to be modified for the modern and > western audience, that where a Japanese (and especially an older Japanese > audience would see them as being beautiful, the intended audience would > not. > > Melusine > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 21:24:54 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l431OrpP007674 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 21:24:53 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l431Odgn009232 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 21:24:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l431O0YJ060418 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 19:24:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l431Nvv2009517; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:23:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.141]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l431NrF7009401 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:23:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 90043 invoked from network); 3 May 2007 01:23:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.253.200 with login) by smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2007 01:23:48 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: dGZBybwVM1ni5a16f547XvOCCk4pVogzj6wKI3QTXmgwT37rpqa1lBQavpwy9ut1SNGrJMPppvtsRic6r2CIWXm7nCqKvhdyUqPli58WbKY9T7B1xqD6uHiSYGwLgVA- Message-ID: <002a01c78d21$ad636d00$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost]Theatrer vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern 5061) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 21:23:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9c586dc2-b4cc-4037-b444-7bb8cf55cf80 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463939D7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 21:24:43 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Anne, when and where is this to be held? Now that I am mostly retired, i might even be able to get away in the Fall. Yikes! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost]Theatrer vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern 5061) > > In a message dated 5/2/2007 8:39:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > sylvia@ntw.net writes: > > I'm actually developing a lecture for next year on why and when you >> would or would not want to be completely accurate with a costume. >> It's just in the ruminating stage right now, but I'd welcome any >> thoughts from y'all. > > That sounds like a very good topic for a lecture. I look forward to > hearing everyone's opinions. > > > > The Midwest Region of the Costume Society of America's symposium next fall > is on all aspects of "costume," including theater and reenactment. > Unfortunately, the call for papers closed a while ago. But I think it is > a very > interesting topic, too--I've worked in theatre and done reenacting. Both > require > compromises (no matter what reenactors say!)--but what compromises, and > why, > is definitely a thought-provoking topic. Just one small example--Mel > Gibson > in "The Patriot" did not wear accurately cut breeches with the baggy > back, but > an experienced theatrical/film designer friend of mine pointed out that > most > public would associate baggy pants with comedy. The only problem with > that > particular compromise, I think, was that the makers of the film took > great > pride in pointing out what meticulous research they did on costume of the > period--okay, so they did the research and then adapted it, as most > designers do, > but it seemed rather misleading. > > Ann Wass > > > > ************************************** See what's free at > http://www.aol.com. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 21:28:47 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l431SlMl007864 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 21:28:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l431SXlY030600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 21:28:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l431Rpni060903 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 19:27:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l431RorV011332; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:27:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.141]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l431RjNc011250 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:27:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 95370 invoked from network); 3 May 2007 01:27:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.253.200 with login) by smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2007 01:27:40 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 0e4bPY0VM1kAQqp_JJHM2tSso5Hq7YyuiSHlv50xUEgzDPwSU91SDXd.bwa9eaqgk6v2MkGeOIVDbGkFC4B_GCH.yMw- Message-ID: <003101c78d22$38515fd0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD><012c01c78d17$16af2610$0200a8c0@boris><007601c78d1b$39e3eae0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD><016b01c78d1c$d76d6560$0200a8c0@boris><001601c78d1f$3e9e8ff0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> <018301c78d20$74abe240$0200a8c0@boris> Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 21:27:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 420ff716-208f-4e6e-b664-b06338c87a44 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46393AC1.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 21:28:37 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Attar girl! My first and constany stagewnen I was beginning was a semi-thrust arrangement. Mos of the time, the audience was a mere 2' away from the front row, and only 2' high. No room to cheat. I was always proud of my hems! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 9:14 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 >> Chuckle...And I bet you didn't try to enter that one in a contest? >> Except, > perhaps "And how many Zippers did you manage to get in on this >> one?" > >> Makes me think of the first time I remember the leather store on the >> board walk of Provincetown !! >> Kathleen > > Nope, and you couldn't see the zippers from off stage, either. > > Melusine > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 21:59:24 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l431xNBG009343 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 21:59:24 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l431x9FK019158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 21:59:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l431wMFh063940 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 19:58:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l431wI1F026302; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:58:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l431wDxG026267 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:58:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26077 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 20:58:14 -0500 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 20:58:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost]Theatrer vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern 5061) In-Reply-To: <004101c78d1f$05485ec0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: net.indra.com 1290; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b5887c18-ba34-4939-b91b-55b2cebfc1a3 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463941ED.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 21:59:13 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Wed, 2 May 2007, Sharon Collier wrote: > Thoughts: > -30 second costume changes. > -$300 costume budget for the whole show-12 actors. > -Director's vision-often more artistic than historically accurate, so you > try and compromise. > -Lack of a crew to make everything you envision. Sometimes it just comes > down to not enough time. You put someone in something close, just so they > can go onstage in something other than their own clothes. Another issue specific to the stage: Heat! Stage lots are hot hot hot, and even if your budget and costume changes would allow you time for multiple natural-fiber layers, the stage heat might nix them. Also, stage costume has to be geared to make its impact from a distance. Only the people in the front rows will see fancy needlework, and maybe even they won't. So trims and embellishment that are important to the design or the character (e.g. connotations of social class) have to be large and contrasty enough to be visible to the people in the last row. On the other hand, I've seen some really smashing stage costume with "goldwork" that turned out, on close inspection, to be fabric paint squeezed from a tube! I should note also that there's more than one kind of theater costuming. Costume for the stage has different issues than costume for film. Because film doesn't have the constraints of distance visibility, heat, and costume-change time, there's less excuse for resorting to zippers, faked layers, and faked trimmings. And films usually have way more budget and time for these things too. I'm a lot more critical of visibly inauthentic costuming in film productions that present themselves as authentic and historical than I am of stage productions that not only are working with stage limitations, but also are usually clearly meant to be complex re-interpretations for the modern audience. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 22:20:25 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l432KPiF010350 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 22:20:25 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l432KBM2030003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 22:20:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l432JYMk065983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 20:19:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l432JXs7036900; Wed, 2 May 2007 20:19:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.141]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l432JT8U036839 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 20:19:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 69502 invoked from network); 3 May 2007 02:19:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.253.200 with login) by smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2007 02:19:24 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 82fMvikVM1l2mAzji1..Ft7AUEl2riPMNFzQysccpUnFDm4vXrwD25rF82p6E9jMTzjhSssscOnRDJmKOqOvcuBCTAcbPVgJ7qNwZJXtGKgWvBEVhhNj Message-ID: <002301c78d29$707aa590$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost]Theatrer vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern 5061) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 22:19:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 01c95151-b2a6-4b36-ba77-1a7f087dee3a X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463946DB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 22:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I feel the same Robin. Re the detail bit of faking it...another moment of epiphany for me was the first show I got to do in our Olin Theater. I endured all the mineuture of prep I wa used forthe small theater and in viewing my first procenium show, none of the little details mattered a hoot...including the hems! The fabrics had great drape and graceful movement but you could hardly tell them from the backdrop!So I went out and gots lots of trim and beefed them up...and made notes re the brighter colors and fab patterns for the next time And got better at concealed closures that looked like their antique counterparts. kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 9:58 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost]Theatrer vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern 5061) > > On Wed, 2 May 2007, Sharon Collier wrote: > >> Thoughts: >> -30 second costume changes. >> -$300 costume budget for the whole show-12 actors. >> -Director's vision-often more artistic than historically accurate, so >> you >> try and compromise. >> -Lack of a crew to make everything you envision. Sometimes it just comes >> down to not enough time. You put someone in something close, just so they >> can go onstage in something other than their own clothes. > > Another issue specific to the stage: Heat! Stage lots are hot hot hot, and > even if your budget and costume changes would allow you time for multiple > natural-fiber layers, the stage heat might nix them. > > Also, stage costume has to be geared to make its impact from a distance. > Only the people in the front rows will see fancy needlework, and maybe > even they won't. So trims and embellishment that are important to the > design or the character (e.g. connotations of social class) have to be > large and contrasty enough to be visible to the people in the last row. On > the other hand, I've seen some really smashing stage costume with > "goldwork" that turned out, on close inspection, to be fabric paint > squeezed from a tube! > > I should note also that there's more than one kind of theater costuming. > Costume for the stage has different issues than costume for film. Because > film doesn't have the constraints of distance visibility, heat, and > costume-change time, there's less excuse for resorting to zippers, faked > layers, and faked trimmings. And films usually have way more budget and > time for these things too. I'm a lot more critical of visibly inauthentic > costuming in film productions that present themselves as authentic and > historical than I am of stage productions that not only are working with > stage limitations, but also are usually clearly meant to be complex > re-interpretations for the modern audience. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 23:00:49 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4330meq011973 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 23:00:48 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4330Yrv015995 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 23:00:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l431GokV059653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 19:16:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l431GnbY005698; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:16:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.232]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l431Gl8f005667 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:16:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id m7so361005nzf for ; Wed, 02 May 2007 18:16:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=j4lC1p+je1ANZOX1tHxWgA+WF+Ksu2iN/AYf/pNmw4rDQ3BQySmr66i2cYqlMlLdKJuNru8CVITLZawsLIj1G26PsYnCyFmREUjw7bqtL8eXkLVC+j4EldBaK777KNwO/KWKCFMVqzevMDTWyqIjQjakamgG/hNBpGQp0iQqAyI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=GkEyKI0KpxESbi9MRQ2rDW9e4HzW5NlK+ck0fCHrg1BOy+sLLr8yvMkeaLu5GSwbsic17OXDf+mdeFCSNR8UI/PWnUhYD0/mrNrSfvN7WrLbmlOj9fVtiDBjEyAUmwwpdTdPXabylNyYkZUUv+5LOjQJx8eYrXtsVgv5LS2pYB4= Received: by 10.114.150.1 with SMTP id x1mr473585wad.1178155006570; Wed, 02 May 2007 18:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.131.18 with HTTP; Wed, 2 May 2007 18:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 18:16:46 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] The Great Authenticity Issue X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 3346c5dc-2c6d-4a69-8b9a-09134fd1189c X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46395052.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 23:00:38 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO >I'm actually developing a lecture for next year on why and when you would or >would not want to be completely accurate with a costume. It's just in the >ruminating stage right now, but I'd welcome any thoughts from y'all. With all due respect to your gracious call for comments, this topic typically turns into a flame war which I hope the list owner will squelch immediately. (Ref the archives & search out "authenticity" for some sample salvos from previous battles.) I've been on this list for 12 years. This topic comes up with surprising regularity. Some of us manage both reenactment & theater... in their separate venues. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 2 23:00:50 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4330mes011973 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 23:00:49 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4330Yrx015995 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 May 2007 23:00:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43191Ak058849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 19:09:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43190Mo001333; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:09:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4318uh9001242 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 19:08:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.c05.159ea550 (52387) for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 21:08:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.104] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by ciaaol-m05.mx.aol.com (v115.11) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLM059-cca34639361c21a; Wed, 02 May 2007 21:08:45 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD><4e44f11b8f5d56bc1536328ed9fa7eb2@ntw.net><013601c78d17$8d286ef0$0200a8c0@boris> <016001c78d1c$514a6820$0200a8c0@boris> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: now costume design, was Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 21:08:43 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2ec83bb7-713b-4b82-8407-ad0c843477bf X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46395052.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 02 May 2007 23:00:39 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On May 2, 2007, at 8:49 PM, Melanie Schuessler wrote: > Of course, actor safety, comfort, and the ability to do quick-changes, > dance moves, sword fights, or whatever else needs to happen in the > show also often have an impact. Out of lurkdom for a moment. First, thanks for all the insight into costumes. I learn so much on this list. Such interesting discussions, too. Second, I ride sidesaddle and joined this list to find out about historic riding habits (but stayed because of the vast array of topics!) The issue of safety and how much we riders have to "do for ourselves" in this 21st Century, (rather than have a dresser and grooms) influences my use of velcro. For ease of dressing, since I am my own groom, I get the horse ready, then get myself ready, as quickly as possible. My bodices close with velcro, as do my skirts. If the horse falls, or even slips, velcro releases the full skirt, so I am not hung up on the saddle. The "look" is good but safe and easy to dress / undress. We even mention this safety factor in our explanations to The Public about riding sidesaddle, Then and Now. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 00:13:36 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l434Da1X015204 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 00:13:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l434DMGo021075 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 00:13:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l434CYkY076892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 22:12:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l434CUsp089482; Wed, 2 May 2007 22:12:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms044pub.verizon.net (vms044pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.44]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l434CQ9V089454 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 22:12:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dragonmatchlock@verizon.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([72.83.95.143]) by vms044.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JHG00FYT6CDF5G3@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 02 May 2007 23:12:16 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 00:12:13 -0400 From: "David S. Mallinak" Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th-century short pants???? In-reply-to: <8C95AFE150724A2-1654-2A26@WEBMAIL-RA09.sysops.aol.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4639611D.5020206@verizon.net> Organization: Red Dragon Bridge Enterprises, Ltd. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <8C95AFE150724A2-1654-2A26@WEBMAIL-RA09.sysops.aol.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4d985901-32ca-4d2e-87fb-874d3d7269ea X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46396162.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 00:13:26 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO tearoses@aol.com wrote: > Somebody tell me this guy is NOT showing off his barenaked knees in the > background of this painting: > > Bruegel drew some fieldworkers wearing similar shorts: > but I had assumed this was a comfort thing rather than > style thing. But notice they have the same points over the > knees as in the painting above. Has anyone consider that the "short pants" under-drawers? Especial the Bruegel details show workers trying to keep cool working in the hot autumn weather. Your humble and obedient servant, David S Mallinak _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 00:17:26 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l434HQCC015429 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 00:17:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l434HC7l022902 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 00:17:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l434Gllq077262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 22:16:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l434GkcY091417; Wed, 2 May 2007 22:16:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l434GgIK091355 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 22:16:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26399 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 23:16:42 -0500 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 23:16:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost]Theatrer vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern 5061) In-Reply-To: <1570047A-4C81-46AC-AB93-B3EBBB2020F5@faucet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5bfccbfa-f5de-4bea-9ec1-6b2b8dbb2a0e X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46396248.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 00:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Wed, 2 May 2007, Melanie Schuessler wrote: > > On May 2, 2007, at 9:07 PM, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > > > The Midwest Region of the Costume Society of America's symposium > > next fall > > is on all aspects of "costume," including theater and reenactment. > > I'll be giving a paper on the impact of historic re-enacting on the > study of clothing history in the recent past. And I'll be talking a > bit about how re-enacting blends theatre and history. Where? When? Webpage? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 01:04:12 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4354Cj9017625 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 01:04:12 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4353wZC013461 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 01:04:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4353GaL081133 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 23:03:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4353Dps010196; Wed, 2 May 2007 23:03:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43539iP010158 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 23:03:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26627 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 00:03:10 -0500 Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 00:03:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Great Authenticity Issue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5613dacd-82bf-439e-9075-7daa8413faad X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46396D3E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 01:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Wed, 2 May 2007, Cin wrote: > >I'm actually developing a lecture for next year on why and when you would or > >would not want to be completely accurate with a costume. It's just in the > >ruminating stage right now, but I'd welcome any thoughts from y'all. > > With all due respect to your gracious call for comments, this topic > typically turns into a flame war which I hope the list owner will > squelch immediately. (Ref the archives & search out "authenticity" for > some sample salvos from previous battles.) I've been on this list for > 12 years. This topic comes up with surprising regularity. It's been a while ... and the dozen or more posts I've seen tonight have pretty much been reasonable and respectful. We have all types on the list, and it's helpful to note sometimes that different types of costuming call for different approaches. That does make a difference in how we address questions on the list, and why it's good when people make their purposes clear when asking how to do something. I don't mind this kind of discussion, and am ever optimistic that it can be done congenially. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 01:18:49 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l435IkE1018368 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 01:18:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l435IWHr020397 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 01:18:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l435HmvW082476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 23:17:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l435Hj71016061; Wed, 2 May 2007 23:17:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from flpvm23.prodigy.net (flpvm23.prodigy.net [207.115.20.53]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l435HgUN016000 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 23:17:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) X-ORBL: [75.46.187.64] Received: from [75.46.187.64] (adsl-75-46-187-64.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net [75.46.187.64]) by flpvm23.prodigy.net (8.13.8 out.dk.spool/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l435Hefk008976 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 22:17:43 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: [h-cost]Theatrer vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern 5061) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 01:17:24 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 83a57f53-aa25-45ee-a785-fda715669e56 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463970A8.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 01:18:36 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On May 3, 2007, at 12:16 AM, Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Wed, 2 May 2007, Melanie Schuessler wrote: >> >> I'll be giving a paper on the impact of historic re-enacting on the >> study of clothing history in the recent past. And I'll be talking a >> bit about how re-enacting blends theatre and history. > > Where? When? Webpage? > > --Robin http://www.costumesocietyamerica.com/RegionIII/event_workshop_sym.htm They still have the call for papers up (which is expired), but it gives the basic details: Milwaukee, WI, September 28-29, with papers and tours to various local sites of interest. It should be fun. I haven't been to one in years, but I enjoyed the last one I attended (at which I gave a paper called "Men in Tights: the Masculinity of Victorian Aerialists")! Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 01:33:19 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l435XIah019106 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 01:33:18 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l435X40Z030632 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 01:33:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l435WUKf083499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 2 May 2007 23:32:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l435WTjv021748; Wed, 2 May 2007 23:32:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l435WPBw021691 for ; Wed, 2 May 2007 23:32:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=reAdu6VQ0HbP19vpbmBZ+WohglwLTYZwBXTZBzvNIdZJfc1TjUYBxE5zT6WI47l3; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.100.124.1] (helo=boris) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HjTvQ-0004aV-7K for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 May 2007 01:32:20 -0400 Message-ID: <019901c78d45$22651c20$0200a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004201c78d20$367dea40$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Subject: Re: now costume design, was Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 22:37:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd4822930f38f1399ea0fb94163f521298653553614b9f64653b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.100.124.1 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 80abffd0-a3b7-4386-8fdb-d4462205a95c X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 46397410.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 01:33:08 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO From: "Sharon Collier" She wrote a book, too, "Geisha", By Liza Dalby ISBN #0-394-72893-9. Mine was published by Vintage Books, division of Random House, in 1985. Originally published Berkeley: University of California Press 1983 Yep, I've got that one, also the book she published in 2001 on Kimono. Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 02:16:00 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l436G0qv026476 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 02:16:00 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l436Fko6013855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 02:15:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l436F4o8086506 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 00:15:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l436F3dW038984; Thu, 3 May 2007 00:15:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l436Ex5r038906 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 00:15:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Deredere.Galbraith@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-1584.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.120.51]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19615342659 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 08:14:54 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <46397DE4.2020607@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 08:15:00 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD><012c01c78d17$16af2610$0200a8c0@boris><007601c78d1b$39e3eae0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD><016b01c78d1c$d76d6560$0200a8c0@boris><001601c78d1f$3e9e8ff0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> <018301c78d20$74abe240$0200a8c0@boris> <003101c78d22$38515fd0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> In-Reply-To: <003101c78d22$38515fd0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=17% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 3e3396ff-9e35-447b-8505-0f371eedcefd X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 46397E12.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 02:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Well accurate or not I like the pattern. I think I am going to make it just to sleep in. B and C look so cute and romantic. :-) Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 04:32:06 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l438W5V3025738 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 04:32:05 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l438Vofq010758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 04:31:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l438VIdg096697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 02:31:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l438VAdm093319; Thu, 3 May 2007 02:31:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from paradise.gen.nz (qmailr@tombstone.paradise.gen.nz [202.49.254.2]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l438V5UC093268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 02:31:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gold@where.else.net.nz) Received: (qmail 15992 invoked by uid 1057); 3 May 2007 08:31:03 -0000 Received: from 121.73.25.58 by tombstone (envelope-from , uid 71) with qmail-scanner-1.24 (clamdscan: 0.80/599. spamassassin: 3.0.1. Clear:RC:1(121.73.25.58):. Processed in 0.11552 secs); 03 May 2007 08:31:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (gold@121.73.25.58) by tombstone.paradise.gen.nz with SMTP; 3 May 2007 08:31:02 -0000 Message-ID: <46399D9D.8080909@where.else.net.nz> Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 20:30:21 +1200 From: Melissa Brown Muckart User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tippet color X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: d17e47a4-8201-47c0-89af-9e23fa0fb884 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 46399DF6.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 04:31:54 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO My husband and I are both currently making 14th C. surcotes which will have tippets. The article "The Tippet: Accessory after the Fact?" by Robin Netherton mentions that the tippets are almost always white. Most images I've seen of tippets show them as white. But I don't recall ever seeing the back side of a tippet in any of the image. We're debating whether tippets are white on both sides (and obviously the "cuff"), or white on only the cuff and the tippet side facing front (what could be the lining), with the back side of the tippet in the color of the surcote itself. Your opinions and input would be appreciated. Thanks, Melissa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 05:10:39 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l439AbmS002194 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 05:10:37 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l439ANMg026666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 05:10:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4399oo3000256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 03:09:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4398XUf008180; Thu, 3 May 2007 03:08:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4398Uga008151 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 03:08:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA27291 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 04:08:32 -0500 Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 04:08:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tippet color In-Reply-To: <46399D9D.8080909@where.else.net.nz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 290aa719-28bc-46c6-8a18-34ac3bf4b00b X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 4639A6FF.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 05:10:27 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Thu, 3 May 2007, Melissa Brown Muckart wrote: > The article "The Tippet: Accessory after the Fact?" by Robin Netherton > mentions that the tippets are almost always white. Most images I've > seen of tippets show them as white. But I don't recall ever seeing the > back side of a tippet in any of the image. > > We're debating whether tippets are white on both sides (and obviously > the "cuff"), or white on only the cuff and the tippet side facing > front (what could be the lining), with the back side of the tippet in > the color of the surcote itself. Hi, Melissa. There are plenty of images of backs of tippets, including some in my article. Fig. 8.1 (reproduced in color on the book jacket cover) shows a circle of men and women dancing, and you see the backs of both men and women with tippets. Fig. 8.2 shows a brass in which the women's arms are turned so that you see one tippet from the back and the other from the front, but that's less helpful as it is uncolored. Follow some of the books and websites I cite in my footnotes and you will see more; sometimes a tippet is even shown twisted so you see both sides. However, perhaps you're using the word "tippet" rather more broadly than I did in my article, in which I used it specifically to refer to the sleeve decoration consisting of a band around the upper arm and a hanging piece (see the last paragraph on page 116). In these cases the fronts and backs of the streamers are the same color (and almost always white; some exceptions are discussed on page 130-31). Sometimes, as in fig. 8.1, you see a thin black line down the middle of the back of the streamer Elsewhere in the article I describe another type of hanging sleeve embellishment, in which the hanging part is an extension of the gown sleeve (see the discussion starting at the bottom of page 121). These are typically illustrated as having the gown fabric continuing down the back, with a fur lining facing front. There is no band around the upper arm. Fig. 8.3 appears to be this style, though the backs are not visible. I am not sure whether this un-banded style is what you are describing above, or whether you are suggesting that band-style tippets might have different-colored backs (something I cannot recall ever seeing). Versions of the hanging extended sleeves appear both before and after the period in which the band-style tippets were popular. An important part of my article is devoted to placing the band-style tippets into the context of these other types of hanging sleeve endings -- something that has been lacking in some earlier works, which treated the band style in isolation. Some discussion of how the hanging tongues might have mutated into band-style tippets appears on page 131. If that method of development is correct, then it would be mechanically unlikely to see a construction that combines a white band/cuff above a streamer that has the gown fabric down the back, which perhaps explains why they don't seem to be in evidence. Let me know if this helps. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 06:35:09 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43AZ8Xi017951 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 06:35:08 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43AYsPd022361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 06:34:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43AY44U007737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 04:34:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43AXw3x046355; Thu, 3 May 2007 04:33:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43AXskZ046269 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 04:33:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.c0e.e7ae019 (29672) for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 06:33:44 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 06:33:44 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost]Theatrer vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern 5061) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5365 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 11c9abeb-8e4b-4384-8e67-0ad6f59b4f6a X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4639BACE.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 06:34:58 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/2/2007 9:24:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: Anne, when and where is this to be held? Now that I am mostly retired, i might even be able to get away in the Fall. Milwaukee, last weekend in September. I didn't save the call for papers, since I can't go. There should be information eventually posted on the CSA website, costumesocietyamerica.com--go to the "Regional Sites," "Midwestern Region." Just found the call for papers still up, the symposium is called "Dress Design: Design for Industry, Theater, and Museums." There is a contact for the conference. Ann Wass ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 06:36:20 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43AaJlj018069 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 06:36:19 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43Aa4iD002792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 06:36:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43AZKE0007853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 04:35:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43AZKVS047036; Thu, 3 May 2007 04:35:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.32]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43AZF3B046962 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 04:35:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAMJWOUbUSnINk2dsb2JhbACQEwIBAQcOBwYd Received: from [80.43.74.130] (port=1514 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-relay-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.66 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HjYeR-000326-6S for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 May 2007 11:35:07 +0100 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20070503113229.036e9630@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 11:35:07 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 In-Reply-To: <004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net> <200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com> <004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=43% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c49eefa7-8d44-4cac-83cc-0aec7f288c84 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 4639BB14.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 06:36:08 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At 00:54 03/05/2007, you wrote: >This reminds me of....... >One thing I am sure of is that the armseye of the upper garments >will not be as high as the originals nor the bottoms as capacious >. These would grace any stage quite nicely. > Owning originals that are Not comfortable for actual modern wear, > in a 'Costume"situation, these would do quite nicely if done in the > usual muslin of their counterparts. Many English originals were made in "Horrocks long cloth", which is almost a sheeting weight cotton, which washes and washes. Certainly in England muslin/calico was not frequently used for underwear. All the extant night gowns and underthings I have are longcloth or the equivalent of a shirting cotton - quite crisp. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 08:34:57 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43CYv9G007555 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 08:34:57 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43CYhNS005658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 08:34:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43CY7PY020803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 06:34:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43CY3iM008998; Thu, 3 May 2007 06:34:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp101.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp101.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.139]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l43CXxu8008912 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 06:34:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 33948 invoked from network); 3 May 2007 12:33:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@71.182.160.157 with login) by smtp101.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2007 12:33:54 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: lOomtoYVM1nZ7OPjosbxG7GEEtLf3_LFsf9wEvhQd59HBxafA0cDhF6fw1rJYvRHP8gNc_lNyda8br3TF60H78FNDl0- Message-ID: <001201c78d7f$4ae6ef40$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD><012c01c78d17$16af2610$0200a8c0@boris><007601c78d1b$39e3eae0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD><016b01c78d1c$d76d6560$0200a8c0@boris><001601c78d1f$3e9e8ff0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD><018301c78d20$74abe240$0200a8c0@boris><003101c78d22$38515fd0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> <46397DE4.2020607@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 08:33:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 83b134a2-382e-47a2-a06c-bebc33d4592d X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 4639D6E3.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 08:34:47 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I like this , too, about it. Kathleen (who sent most of her antique stuff to auction last week; who is wearing a lovely antique Victorian wrapper to the breakfast table, these days.) Now that I do not need to preserve it for future programs, I plan to wear the things I kept as the mood and occasion presents. (Thank you Fran!!) KSM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 > Well accurate or not I like the pattern. > I think I am going to make it just to sleep in. > B and C look so cute and romantic. :-) > > Greetings, > Deredere > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 09:47:44 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43Dlhxj011008 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 09:47:43 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43DlSVx023353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 09:47:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43Dkh8Q032651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 07:46:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43DkcTO054787; Thu, 3 May 2007 07:46:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kumc-gwia.kumc.edu (kumc-gwia.kumc.edu [169.147.4.23]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43DkKH1054551 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 07:46:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from kumc-mpg3.kumc.edu ([::ffff:10.120.1.73]) by kumc-gwia.kumc.edu with ESMTP; Thu, 03 May 2007 08:45:54 -0500 Received: from kumc-smtpout (mithril@localhost) by kumc-mpg3.kumc.edu with ESMTP id l43Djs116324 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 08:45:54 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from Ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout [10.120.1.11]) by kumc-mpg3.kumc.edu ([10.120.1.74]); 03 May 2007 08:45:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 03 May 2007 08:45:54 -0500 References: <200705030911.l439Axqv009384@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 08:45:28 -0500 Message-ID: <4639A128.C9FB.00A6.0@kumc.edu> In-Reply-To: <200705030911.l439Axqv009384@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Theatrer vs Historic X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 6c2eede2-d3d6-4885-b112-1c53038c3bb9 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4639E7F0.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 09:47:33 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO from Sharon: Thoughts: -30 second costume changes. -$300 costume budget for the whole show-12 actors. -Director's vision-often more artistic than historically accurate, so you try and compromise. -Lack of a crew to make everything you envision. Sometimes it just comes down to not enough time. You put someone in something close, just so they can go onstage in something other than their own clothes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bingo! Especially in local community theater, altho the available $$ are often much less. I've been pulled back into theater work the last year or so precisely because of my historic background. Fortunately I had directors who wanted to try for some historic accuracy, even if they had not the slightest idea of what it was :). Also fortunately I had a better perspective of theater work and quickly learned not to tear my hair out just because the stitching wouldn't pass historic muster. Ann W. mentioned Mel Gibson and The Patriot, how the film claimed to have done meticulous research, yet there were obvious (at least to us :) ), costuming compromises. I find over the years I am more tolerant of costuming fudges if the overall look is cohesive but this still bugs me. If historic accuracy is so important to them that they want to advertise it, then I think they need to care about those details a little more. They might be surprised at how many folks would care, something a lot of rennfaires seem to be forgetting. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 10:47:43 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43ElhpD013817 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 10:47:43 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43ElTgK018269 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 10:47:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43Ekoiq043366 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 08:46:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43Ekk3k001403; Thu, 3 May 2007 08:46:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43EkgYt001251 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 08:46:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Cheryldee@aol.com) Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.c75.c19adc9 (14457) for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 10:46:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 10:46:30 EDT Subject: Re: now costume design, was Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.0 VR sub 100 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f04d35ca-126b-4f92-9a5f-eada5e9e2886 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 4639F601.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 10:47:32 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/2/2007 6:54:45 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, melanie@faucet.net writes: Of course, actor safety, comfort, and the ability to do quick- changes, dance moves, sword fights, or whatever else needs to happen in the show also often have an impact. I once draped an HMS Pinafore set in the 1880s (really tight sleeves on really tight bodices _plus_ bustles) and was informed after all the mockups were done that one of the ladies had to do a handstand onstage. Don't ya love it? And I had a "lady" in a gowne and surcote do a cartwheel. And she was extremely overweight, which the director thought was funny. Maybe he was the only one. Cheryl Odom College of Santa Fe ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 13:40:18 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43HeHsj021044 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 13:40:17 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43HZHFK012347 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 13:40:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43HYUDS077997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 11:34:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43HYLGI056557; Thu, 3 May 2007 11:34:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43HYH7D056404 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 11:34:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.c0d.1691218e (52350) for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 13:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from WEBMAIL-RB10 (webmail-rb10.webmail.aol.com [152.163.16.74]) by ciaaol-r01.mx.aol.com (v115.11) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLR018-cc7e463a1d11110; Thu, 03 May 2007 13:34:09 -0400 References: <200705030911.l439Axqx009384@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 13:34:09 -0400 In-Reply-To: <200705030911.l439Axqx009384@net.indra.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: tearoses@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 25698 Received: from 68.143.196.38 by WEBMAIL-RB10.sysops.aol.com (152.163.16.74) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 03 May 2007 13:34:09 -0400 Message-Id: <8C95BC063FE6899-125C-CD33@WEBMAIL-RB10.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 152.163.16.74 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: 16th-century short pants???? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ddb824d5-098e-42fc-bc01-d5a99e7b5bae X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463A1D55.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 13:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO That's what I originally thought about the Bruegel field workers, or that they were worn-out hosen that had been cut off below the knees. That's why I did a double-take when I saw the Bathsheba picture, because that guy is clearly not in his drawers, or about to do any field work. Maybe, for the reasons previously mentioned, the artist was painting that guy in a gussied-up version of a peasant style. Or maybe the Bruegel drawings, which are thirty years later, show peasants wearing the castoffs of a flash-in-the-pan noble style. One reason I brought it up was to see if anyone else had any pictures of the same thing. I think it's especially interesting that Bruegel clearly shows a seam above the knee. I had even wondered if the knee parts were the tails of his undershirt drawn through, though that hardly seems practical. One leg of the guy in the Bathsheba image appears to also have this seam, so maybe it was just the way it was done. Anyway, glad I could share something surprising with you guys. It amuses me no end to see those knobbly knees in that painting. Tea Rose From: "David S. Mallinak" Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th-century short pants???? To: Historical Costume Has anyone consider that the "short pants" under-drawers? Especial the Bruegel details show workers trying to keep cool working in the hot autumn weather. Your humble and obedient servant, David S Mallinak ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 14:08:45 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43I8inv022227 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 14:08:44 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43I8Uj4025511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 14:08:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43I89XT082297 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 12:08:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43I84to087180; Thu, 3 May 2007 12:08:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from barra1.swissinfo.org (barra1.swissinfo.org [146.159.6.75]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43I7xax087000 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 12:08:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from swissgirl@swissinfo.org) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1178215673-4151000c0000-L6CAXr X-Barracuda-URL: http://146.159.6.75:8000/cgi-bin/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Connect: kuma.sri.ch[194.6.181.33] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1178215673 X-ASG-Whitelist: Sender Received: from mail.swissinfo.org (kuma.sri.ch [194.6.181.33]) by barra1.swissinfo.org (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id 352DBCC5F for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 20:07:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from compaqub (24.216.120.37) by mail.swissinfo.org (7.2.064.1) (authenticated as swissgirl) id 45DAE0BC0338F423 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 3 May 2007 19:47:43 +0200 Message-ID: <083c01c78dab$34ab8b10$1f00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <74583.61877.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [h-cost] Need fabric selection advice Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need fabric selection advice Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 12:48:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Barracuda-Virus-Scanned: by Barracuda Spam Firewall at swissinfo.org X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: bd164e33-9c88-41c7-8d06-91208eebb76b X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 463A251E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 14:08:34 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "MaggiRos" > I find myself thinking hmmmmmm... Cavalier, or better, > Restoration. Ooo. OoooOOOOOoo! Perfect! And I've been looking for an excuse to make some c1665 stays, too... -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 14:10:00 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43IA0vO022260 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 14:10:00 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43I9kJc010751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 14:09:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43I9Tbp082509 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 12:09:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43I9QHu088484; Thu, 3 May 2007 12:09:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.24]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l43I9KPJ088303 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 12:09:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 1721 invoked by uid 60001); 3 May 2007 18:09:15 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=NTxsEZEo0Xk8loxwgJd4+xOXhVAJ4PTNJoqpqvR8DvqB9jDT1CrfcFWu0S0wRGEnPn/1aOB6DBq2xSURXBVgZasG9uu+G6kyaFZLlnE/KCSOIML5hSRzK+I5aRWy1UDLd5ICCsoFMwCmfnOx/GZSPM2ZWE5rAVoDODx0VXA357o=; X-YMail-OSG: l0oTpkIVM1nuXc0vBzPdl3DiuV5uo4Zg.8iBfhNxgwH7lg6G5M_dH.uJzKmhT.CfmrAWJgrxQw-- Received: from [208.179.44.218] by web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 03 May 2007 11:09:15 PDT Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 11:09:15 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200705022040.51640.cathy@thyrsus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <358021.1472.qm@web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=17% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ddca2203-f1fa-45b4-9afa-b0cbb7298112 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 463A256A.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 14:09:50 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > Theatrical costumes need to meet different demands > than reenactment costumes, > and theatrical costumes often need to be made on a > tight deadline to boot. > Comparing the two is like comparing apples and > oranges, and > expecting "complete" historical accuracy of theatre > costumes is absurd. > > -- Not that this keeps us from screaming over the costumes in something like The Tudors. The budget demands of a show like don't explain some of the design choices they made. MaggiRos _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 14:39:19 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43IdJ5C023416 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 14:39:19 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43Id5sr024010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 14:39:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43IcPKw085798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 12:38:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43IcJfL013008; Thu, 3 May 2007 12:38:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.234]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43Ic677012833 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 12:38:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id m7so649170nzf for ; Thu, 03 May 2007 11:38:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=DXvZGdrfd9DSiWSDaF7Ke863IAPnj3vUp6O6IlcJQNExLuPuWqzjh3k6d8bTle5GZaCz/X+H0IBN+7jLIhF7ZwZjQ1LGyvhuzBxx0x1418KMPbzpIFHJwO7oEWvfDcwDhilO8Ay6u5TuLMiZ0bxYZyBY9oKvNBwHayiB/ur5Ahs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=Vj699RM5+hO7mmiDmjXISPwq8Ol+08czyjYzaHASG4bJETm5TzF15Zgknuycil+HcbdqY711bQku2FYY1Wk6EV1/7+AoZfrfLjLgglGXjwsPNJeAFVeH8xqlRb44N4UARD8QtqSWEoloDbSQjXSaMtPsIxDHNPddsI8YPVC3k7E= Received: by 10.114.57.1 with SMTP id f1mr784321waa.1178217485022; Thu, 03 May 2007 11:38:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.131.18 with HTTP; Thu, 3 May 2007 11:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 11:38:04 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost]Theater vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: d8fe5680-82d7-438c-b71e-37cf24085cc9 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463A2C49.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 14:39:09 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Compromises? When the performers are required to provide their own costumes at their own expense. 20 different people will each compromise in 20 different ways: this one for vanity, that one for cost, another for a favorite color, she has a quick change, he changes from tux to tails and so on. Our dance company www.DanseLibre.org is doing 4 different decades this year. Just changing shoes is a significant investment in a costume closet. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 15:13:12 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43JDCsN024821 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 15:13:12 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43J7wMU011379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 15:13:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43J7ZpL090240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 13:07:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43J7WVj037377; Thu, 3 May 2007 13:07:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.252]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l43J7THl037265 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 13:07:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 63209 invoked by uid 60001); 3 May 2007 19:07:24 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=cLZCeWCIoQ0q6nxAYiynYBzo/hjL/1gg0IA4r4QQXJ65+tTnAd75AOSrwT1lMDFrOg3SEIH4hWNOdxHo71rMCL60ja+RZm0K/bKQztd14R+FuQ14zLur8T618w1hvv789tiIQ+kmM9onr62XdrSp2jyvelyV4lud9eM4ySL8IaA=; X-YMail-OSG: OeyRCxsVM1l09cFyO8DKMiPlp_k1G.y12o5DebjQO7P.ghk0EwP5K5f7LaHOSJLp7eKrOcvOr2uXA8ZxOADwxMBEjNuIyqmvliBq56EEc1ndmMcCmwi_Hm_.qvyIWg-- Received: from [208.179.44.218] by web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 03 May 2007 12:07:24 PDT Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 12:07:24 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost]Theater vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <112129.62617.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=13% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4562f721-51c5-4c41-b3db-ce53a9877a2f X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 463A330E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 15:13:02 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO And are we all ready for James Purefoy (sigh, faint, oh my) this sunday as Beau Brummel? BBC America at 8:00pm for those who subscribe. The website only has a few pictures, but he looks, dare I say it, dandy! MaggiRos ~who only knows about the Regency what she sees on TV. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 15:27:06 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43JR6XJ025374 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 15:27:06 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43JLoDF017378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 15:26:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43JLT8I092726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 13:21:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43JLQjb049217; Thu, 3 May 2007 13:21:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43JLLLT049108 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 13:21:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11F3BCDCB9 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 14:21:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <463A3639.5030904@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 14:21:29 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <112129.62617.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <112129.62617.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Beau Brummel (was Theater vs Historic ) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: db6fb50d-9d05-4bf5-9908-824c123a1572 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463A364E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 15:26:56 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO MaggiRos wrote: > And are we all ready for James Purefoy (sigh, faint, > oh my) this sunday as Beau Brummel? > > BBC America at 8:00pm for those who subscribe. The > website only has a few pictures, but he looks, dare I > say it, dandy! > > Oh, yum! Is this going to be a series or a stand-alone movie? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 15:48:12 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43JmCf1026232 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 15:48:12 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43JlwBt014465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 15:48:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43JlQXf096035 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 13:47:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43JlNGM071798; Thu, 3 May 2007 13:47:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zixvpm01.creighton.edu (ZIXVPM01.creighton.edu [147.134.0.65]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43JlIZu071728 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 13:47:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cynthiaabel@creighton.edu) Received: from zixvpm01.creighton.edu (ZixVPM [127.0.0.1]) by Outbound.creighton.edu (Proprietary) with ESMTP id 2FB2E2E82BD for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 14:41:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by zixvpm01.creighton.edu (Proprietary) with ESMTP id 8B7FD2E8101 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 14:41:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_29774)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16451 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 14:47:12 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [h-cost]Theater vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 14:45:28 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost]Theater vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern Thread-Index: AceNskWs2qF72ROcRaukzMnxllcgMgABuQ6Q References: From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4ee56ce5-4a27-4aa3-a9c8-16bad56d7d25 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 463A3C6E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 15:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Also in the theater, on top of budget limitations, there is also the consideration of what is going to be seen by the audience, both in the front row and the "cheap seats" Lighting, director's vision, and just the present-time aesthetics also play a big part. Costume budgets have always been a relatively small part of the total budget in historically-set films. In the multi-disc DVD version of Room With a View, costume designer Jenny Bevan remarks on the difficulty on working with small budgets and what you can even source--she mentions that during the '70's everything was polyester. What the costume designer or costume department wants to do and what ends up on stage and screen has almost always been a compromise. We have to remember that mass-market pattern suppliers are marketing to a wide audience and what will sell is what comes first. So what is relatively easy to make and looks attractive to the modern eye trumps authenticity more often than not. What most of us couldn't afford to today is the amount of money people in the past had to spend on a single outfit. One noble person's single ensemble,during the reign of Elizabeth I, for court wear, could cost as much as a Porshe or more today. And would we want to have to work with lengths of expensive fabrics as narrow as 21" wide? Cindy Abel =20 =20 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 15:56:21 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43JuKBU026601 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 15:56:20 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43JpWtY009147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 15:56:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43Jp6eO096532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 13:51:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43Jp3Sl075008; Thu, 3 May 2007 13:51:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.40]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43JoxJZ074931 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 13:51:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.245.173.167.dial1.stamford1.level3.net ([4.245.173.167]) by pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1HjhKL-0001u7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 May 2007 15:50:58 -0400 In-Reply-To: <014d01c78d1b$08347f00$0200a8c0@boris> References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD><4e44f11b8f5d56bc1536328ed9fa7eb2@ntw.net><013601c78d17$8d286ef0$0200a8c0@boris> <014d01c78d1b$08347f00$0200a8c0@boris> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <8957133F-FCEA-4CE4-A420-80078EF61D74@mindspring.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ruth Anne Baumgartner Subject: Re: [h-cost]Theatrer vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern 5061) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 15:51:59 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=46% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7b673506-407d-4e2b-b840-def7db071a72 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463A3D44.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 15:56:10 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO As a costumer in community theaters with miniscule budgets, of course I join others who've said the budget is a big factor in costume design (and the question of authenticity). Absolutely also, the practical demands of the theatrical role (including the stage temperature) affect the costume design. But the biggest issue, to my mind, is what the costume communicates to the audience, because that's the ultimate question for any aspect of a theatrical production. I always aim for an accurate LINE (silhouette, apparent weight, movement) and go from there. Much as we might love looking at the real thing in any time period or social class, at least a few authentic designs that were high fashion or high elegance in other eras are downright hilarious to the modern eye, and if we don't want to evoke laughter we have to adjust the design. That goes for any other detail, too, that the audience would "read." Much as we might like to teach the audience about life in another time or place, they didn't come to the theater to study cultural or clothing history; they came to participate in an unfolding human experience. Any costume that says "Don't listen to this guy; LOOK at ME!" is a bad theatrical costume, regardless of its accuracy or fine workmanship. I'd also say that estimating the expectations/preparation of the audience is relevant in this context: for a college or festival (e.g., Shakespeare festival) or otherwise specialized audience, where the audience members are likely to know something about the period of the play, the costumes--if the choice is period costumes--ought to speak to their knowledge, offer accuracy in surface detail and underpinnings as well as an accurate line. But even then, the director's intentions concerning mood and personality and overall production design will affect those details. Basically, then: costuming, like any other aspect of a theatrical production, must ADD to, not DETRACT or DISTRACT from, the audience's ability to understand the play. And that holds whether the play is "period" or contemporary. That's my guiding principle, anyway. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On May 2, 2007, at 8:36 PM, Carmen Beaudry wrote: > (snip about percieved insult to theatrical designers) >> You didn't? Am I just being overly sensitive? I often feel like >> historical re-enactors and reproducers of accurate historical >> costumes look down their noses to a certain extent at theatrical >> costume designers because the latter don't usually attempt >> complete authenticity. >> >> Sylrog > > I may be a bit optimistic, and I know that some historic costumers > automatically discount anyone who designs for the stage, but I > don't think this was the case here. I'm sure the original poster > will correct me if I'm wrong. > > I do historic reenactment and recreation. Most of my customers > want very historically accurate clothing for reenactment. That > being said, I enjoy the different emphasis to costuming for the > theater. I enjoy trying to realize the director's vision, to > express the character through the costume and evoke the various > moods. I do try to make that historically accurate whenever > possible, but sometimes it's not. Whether that's the production of > Hamlet that was done all in dull browns, greys and other muddy > shades due to the director's ideas, or the production of The > Misenthrope that we did in 1635 costumes rather than the 1670's > that were actually appropriate, because we could borrow the one, > and we would have had to make the others, and we had a $500 costume > budget. Wasn't going to get done, and while it somewhat offended > my sensibilities, for the most part the audience didn't know it > wasn't meant to be. > > I'm actually developing a lecture for next year on why and when you > would or would not want to be completely accurate with a costume. > It's just in the ruminating stage right now, but I'd welcome any > thoughts from y'all. > > Melusine > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 16:03:07 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43K37rT026848 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 16:03:07 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43K2r4v001909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 16:02:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43K2Ilb098417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 14:02:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43K2H9g084642; Thu, 3 May 2007 14:02:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from metis.sjsu.edu (metis.sjsu.edu [130.65.3.15]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43K2Dgw084529 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 14:02:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from attrembl@bovil.com) Received: from [130.65.37.188] (sjs-130-65-37-188.sjsu.edu [130.65.37.188]) by metis.sjsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43K26av027157 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 13:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <358021.1472.qm@web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <358021.1472.qm@web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Andrew T Trembley Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 13:02:06 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 55c816ff-9c9a-448e-88bb-cffc4cf44f83 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463A3FED.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 16:02:57 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On May 3, 2007, at 11:09 AM, MaggiRos wrote: > Not that this keeps us from screaming over the > costumes in something like The Tudors. The budget > demands of a show like don't explain some of the > design choices they made. I'm willing to give "historical fantasy" more leeway than something that claims accuracy. I'm willing to give designers a lot of credit if they can use and successfully hide modern techniques because they're practical. A performance venue, whether it's stage, screen or something interactive like historical faire, is a performance venue. There's still a point at which I can't suspend disbelief anymore. I think the worst case is when there's obviously been a lot of work put into accuracy, and one or two costumes (the stars', usually) just don't match. andy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 16:44:41 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43Kif8j028533 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 16:44:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43KiRg6009341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 16:44:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43KeSmF005400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 14:40:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43KeLtF016188; Thu, 3 May 2007 14:40:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.141]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l43KeEuQ016006 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 14:40:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 36725 invoked from network); 3 May 2007 20:40:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.255.143 with login) by smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2007 20:40:08 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Wnr6jbwVM1lRFYOFQDRynzVMhEAC19fZYuWoBoRFQeNA56XLwHhU6.psG8JpAbyLtcMHAku_ToTs7K5NLQ.GfZpJzrA- Message-ID: <005601c78dc3$34473710$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost]Theater vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 16:39:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b830a15d-2ccd-461a-8175-5a77c130cb8b X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 463A49AB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 16:44:30 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO re what can be seen to the folk in the cheap seats: We attended a performance of Madame Butterfly with a large college group. Sitting way up in heaven at the Benedum, we had an excellent view of all the scene changes andd an especially goodview of the right side prop table for most of the show! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 3:45 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost]Theater vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern Also in the theater, on top of budget limitations, there is also the consideration of what is going to be seen by the audience, both in the front row and the "cheap seats" Lighting, director's vision, and just the present-time aesthetics also play a big part. Costume budgets have always been a relatively small part of the total budget in historically-set films. In the multi-disc DVD version of Room With a View, costume designer Jenny Bevan remarks on the difficulty on working with small budgets and what you can even source--she mentions that during the '70's everything was polyester. What the costume designer or costume department wants to do and what ends up on stage and screen has almost always been a compromise. We have to remember that mass-market pattern suppliers are marketing to a wide audience and what will sell is what comes first. So what is relatively easy to make and looks attractive to the modern eye trumps authenticity more often than not. What most of us couldn't afford to today is the amount of money people in the past had to spend on a single outfit. One noble person's single ensemble,during the reign of Elizabeth I, for court wear, could cost as much as a Porshe or more today. And would we want to have to work with lengths of expensive fabrics as narrow as 21" wide? Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 16:53:42 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43KrgaC028917 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 16:53:42 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43KrSTP022952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 16:53:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43KqhkD009504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 14:52:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43Kqe6i028498; Thu, 3 May 2007 14:52:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.24]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l43KqaA5028330 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 14:52:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 62798 invoked by uid 60001); 3 May 2007 20:52:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=NIIAdiNbW8Y5/eGdI8iFnrwzTPQkcoM2hl1qEKfwYfwc+RRePgeSyxuUTxck3+dk0tjEpIRNW4A0bf567Wdtl+nTG7tHPHNhfKZzxdr9F3soXkZ8DULPEYpHOZ57PFSxSUIpca45jk7V6RGuGrUT968m+E4gXfJaaMPepCipt04=; X-YMail-OSG: ZPVr7KwVM1mzCfUi.OVJnRwx_Sy0CuZhKMRQ3PjSjffZ314hAO.FBkRqVdbFSts00.It1BqCauM8jORQhBABF.18clz.aI2kUiKmsGZfdU40zIDx6zA- Received: from [208.179.44.218] by web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 03 May 2007 13:52:30 PDT Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 13:52:30 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Beau Brummel (was Theater vs Historic ) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <463A3639.5030904@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <818475.62527.qm@web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=17% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c559dff2-1a29-4084-bd28-f615a13396c8 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463A4BC8.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 16:53:32 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I can't see any mention of multiple parts, so it appears to be a 1-shot thing. BBC Four calls it a full length feature, and apparently ran an hour and 20 minutes, which for BBC America means 2 hours. Here are some more pictures. http://www.flashbacktelevision.com/productions/beaubrummell.html MaggiRos --- Dawn wrote: > MaggiRos wrote: > > > And are we all ready for James Purefoy (sigh, > faint, > > oh my) this sunday as Beau Brummel? > > > > BBC America at 8:00pm for those who subscribe. The > > website only has a few pictures, but he looks, > dare I > > say it, dandy! > > > > > > Oh, yum! Is this going to be a series or a > stand-alone movie? > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 16:54:13 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43KsDq8028928 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 16:54:13 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43KrxQI013511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 16:54:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43KrfcL009632 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 14:53:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43KrbYQ029437; Thu, 3 May 2007 14:53:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.141]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l43KrUCt029250 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 14:53:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 53248 invoked from network); 3 May 2007 20:53:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.255.143 with login) by smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2007 20:53:25 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 6qFi1iAVM1n2NvAvIkdusOXWfxpCWaUqIoV2Oe_nK3AykeMY3ctekstFYzfCoQMQgDOj0lluyDDcSlMxbPEq6oA5VKg- Message-ID: <006301c78dc5$105247d0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <358021.1472.qm@web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 16:53:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ee6f5ded-8f66-489a-a506-a51815ef8db3 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 463A4BE7.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 16:54:03 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO And then there was the production of "Auntie Mame". For once, I was just in the cast; someone else was doing costumes. That is, she said she would costume "Mame". I got her permission to costume myself; at the dress rehersal I showed up with 5 ordinary vintage costumes. The rest of the cast was pointed to a huge piloe of clothing thrown on to the floor, and told to find something that would fit...She was still too busy getting Mame's 10 costumes finished. After the rehearsal, the producer and director took me aside and asked if there was any way I could help...at least with the rest of the principals. Knowing I couldn't wear my stuff unless the others looked at least a good as I, I went home to scrounge and adapt about 20 pieces before the next night. T'was ever thus. (I did gain a reputation for shaking my magic wand...but it wasn't always fun!) kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew T Trembley" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 > On May 3, 2007, at 11:09 AM, MaggiRos wrote: >> Not that this keeps us from screaming over the >> costumes in something like The Tudors. The budget >> demands of a show like don't explain some of the >> design choices they made. > > I'm willing to give "historical fantasy" more leeway than something that > claims accuracy. I'm willing to give designers a lot of credit if they > can use and successfully hide modern techniques because they're > practical. A performance venue, whether it's stage, screen or something > interactive like historical faire, is a performance venue. > > There's still a point at which I can't suspend disbelief anymore. I think > the worst case is when there's obviously been a lot of work put into > accuracy, and one or two costumes (the stars', usually) just don't match. > > andy > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 18:02:48 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43M2lhX031721 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 18:02:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43M0buu008956 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 18:02:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43LxwVe017973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 15:59:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43LxwLU084742; Thu, 3 May 2007 15:59:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43LxtFu084683 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 15:59:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A98AEA904D8; Thu, 03 May 2007 21:52:10 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Theatrer vs Historic Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 14:59:58 -0700 Message-ID: <005901c78dce$6429d130$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: <4639A128.C9FB.00A6.0@kumc.edu> Importance: Normal X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: cdb5b031-acaf-4c81-8ae8-a7d61de74b70 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 463A5B85.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 18:02:37 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Right. The 30 foot rule often applies in theatre. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Catherine Kinsey Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 6:45 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: Theatrer vs Historic from Sharon: Thoughts: -30 second costume changes. -$300 costume budget for the whole show-12 actors. -Director's vision-often more artistic than historically accurate, so you try and compromise. -Lack of a crew to make everything you envision. Sometimes it just comes down to not enough time. You put someone in something close, just so they can go onstage in something other than their own clothes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bingo! Especially in local community theater, altho the available $$ are often much less. I've been pulled back into theater work the last year or so precisely because of my historic background. Fortunately I had directors who wanted to try for some historic accuracy, even if they had not the slightest idea of what it was :). Also fortunately I had a better perspective of theater work and quickly learned not to tear my hair out just because the stitching wouldn't pass historic muster. Ann W. mentioned Mel Gibson and The Patriot, how the film claimed to have done meticulous research, yet there were obvious (at least to us :) ), costuming compromises. I find over the years I am more tolerant of costuming fudges if the overall look is cohesive but this still bugs me. If historic accuracy is so important to them that they want to advertise it, then I think they need to care about those details a little more. They might be surprised at how many folks would care, something a lot of rennfaires seem to be forgetting. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 18:02:50 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43M2mx8031724 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 18:02:48 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43Lxn3I027325 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 18:02:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43LvqJ6017791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 15:57:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43LvkCK082780; Thu, 3 May 2007 15:57:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43LvhxT082726 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 15:57:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A907CAC0454; Thu, 03 May 2007 21:49:59 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost]Theatrer vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern 5061) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 14:57:47 -0700 Message-ID: <005801c78dce$15e8dbb0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f9cc2677-13ca-49ee-91a1-86e95782dabb X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463A5B55.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 18:02:37 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I remember when we went to Disneyland some years ago and the parade was = for the movie "Mulan" I practically climbed into the street to see the = fabulous costumes, all embroidered. I took lots of pictures. Gorgeous! Sharon -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] = On Behalf Of Robin Netherton Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 6:58 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost]Theatrer vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern = 5061) On Wed, 2 May 2007, Sharon Collier wrote: > Thoughts: > -30 second costume changes. > -$300 costume budget for the whole show-12 actors. > -Director's vision-often more artistic than historically accurate, so = you > try and compromise. > -Lack of a crew to make everything you envision. Sometimes it just = comes > down to not enough time. You put someone in something close, just so = they > can go onstage in something other than their own clothes. Another issue specific to the stage: Heat! Stage lots are hot hot hot, = and even if your budget and costume changes would allow you time for = multiple natural-fiber layers, the stage heat might nix them. Also, stage costume has to be geared to make its impact from a distance. Only the people in the front rows will see fancy needlework, and maybe even they won't. So trims and embellishment that are important to the design or the character (e.g. connotations of social class) have to be large and contrasty enough to be visible to the people in the last row. = On the other hand, I've seen some really smashing stage costume with "goldwork" that turned out, on close inspection, to be fabric paint squeezed from a tube! I should note also that there's more than one kind of theater costuming. Costume for the stage has different issues than costume for film. = Because film doesn't have the constraints of distance visibility, heat, and costume-change time, there's less excuse for resorting to zippers, faked layers, and faked trimmings. And films usually have way more budget and time for these things too. I'm a lot more critical of visibly = inauthentic costuming in film productions that present themselves as authentic and historical than I am of stage productions that not only are working with stage limitations, but also are usually clearly meant to be complex re-interpretations for the modern audience. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 18:03:38 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43M3crG031766 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 18:03:38 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43M3NVh005356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 18:03:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43M2aOA018412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 16:02:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43M2Zxr086983; Thu, 3 May 2007 16:02:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43M2V8e086932 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 16:02:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id AA231140432; Thu, 03 May 2007 21:54:43 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: 16th-century short pants???? Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 15:02:31 -0700 Message-ID: <005a01c78dce$bf5d4a50$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: <8C95BC063FE6899-125C-CD33@WEBMAIL-RB10.sysops.aol.com> Importance: Normal X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 79dbaea0-9eee-4635-b056-d42a598339ea X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 463A5C2B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 18:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Would it perhaps be a style that allowed for knee protection/cushioning = when kneeling to do field work?=20 Sharon -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] = On Behalf Of tearoses@aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:34 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: 16th-century short pants???? That's what I originally thought about the Bruegel field workers, or = that they were worn-out hosen that had been cut off below the knees. That's = why I did a double-take when I saw the Bathsheba picture, because that guy is clearly not in his drawers, or about to do any field work.=20 Maybe, for the reasons previously mentioned, the artist was painting = that guy in a gussied-up version of a peasant style. Or maybe the Bruegel drawings, which are thirty years later, show peasants wearing the = castoffs of a flash-in-the-pan noble style. One reason I brought it up was to see = if anyone else had any pictures of the same thing.=20 I think it's especially interesting that Bruegel clearly shows a seam = above the knee. I had even wondered if the knee parts were the tails of his undershirt drawn through, though that hardly seems practical. One leg of = the guy in the Bathsheba image appears to also have this seam, so maybe it = was just the way it was done. Anyway, glad I could share something surprising with you guys. It amuses = me no end to see those knobbly knees in that painting.=20 Tea Rose From: "David S. Mallinak" Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th-century short pants???? To: Historical Costume Has anyone consider that the "short pants" under-drawers? Especial the Bruegel=20 details show workers trying to keep cool working in the hot autumn = weather. Your humble and obedient servant, David S Mallinak =20 ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free = from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 18:16:53 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43MGpoD032237 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 18:16:51 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43MDbg4003400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 18:16:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43MDGe3019627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 16:13:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43MDE2l095948; Thu, 3 May 2007 16:13:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43MDBhp095900 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 16:13:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id ACA5874A03E6; Thu, 03 May 2007 22:05:25 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 15:13:13 -0700 Message-ID: <005d01c78dd0$3e3e4210$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: <358021.1472.qm@web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: afe39562-069f-4136-a261-2589ca9a0174 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463A5E91.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 18:16:41 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I find that I can accept less than period correct costumes much easier = in a stage production than in movies or TV shows. Maybe that is because in = most stage productions, the scenery is suggested, a column standing for a = tree in one scene and a ship's mast the next, etc. Suggested costumes seem to go along with that. But in a movie or TV production, they are filmed using real locations. I "want" the costumes to be as real. If you film in Hampton Court Palace or an authentic mock up of it on a = sound stage, the costumes should be stylistically the same. If the show is = filmed with a more fantasy feel to the sets, I can accept more leeway in the costumes.=20 It jars less if the set and costumes match. It often seems more a = visceral reaction than a well thought out one. More like a feeling that something isn't "right". Anyone else feel this way? Sharon -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] = On Behalf Of MaggiRos Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 11:09 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 > Theatrical costumes need to meet different demands > than reenactment costumes,=20 > and theatrical costumes often need to be made on a > tight deadline to boot. =20 > Comparing the two is like comparing apples and > oranges, and=20 > expecting "complete" historical accuracy of theatre > costumes is absurd. >=20 > --=20 Not that this keeps us from screaming over the costumes in something like The Tudors. The budget demands of a show like don't explain some of the design choices they made.=20 MaggiRos _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 18:20:50 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43MKo2N032384 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 18:20:50 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43MKaJU001667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 18:20:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43MK8Oc020485 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 16:20:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43MK7xd000827; Thu, 3 May 2007 16:20:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43MK2Hd000772 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 16:20:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id AE42878403E6; Thu, 03 May 2007 22:12:18 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 15:20:06 -0700 Message-ID: <005e01c78dd1$3441fe90$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ddbd20da-21e7-4b02-bd75-546a1077026c X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463A6034.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 18:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO "A Knight's Tale" is a great example. I don't know much about the period, but most of the costumes seemed okay. Except for the female lead. She stuck out like a sore thumb. I especially remember the hat that looked like something from "Breakfast at Tiffany's". -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Andrew T Trembley Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 1:02 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 On May 3, 2007, at 11:09 AM, MaggiRos wrote: > Not that this keeps us from screaming over the > costumes in something like The Tudors. The budget > demands of a show like don't explain some of the > design choices they made. I'm willing to give "historical fantasy" more leeway than something that claims accuracy. I'm willing to give designers a lot of credit if they can use and successfully hide modern techniques because they're practical. A performance venue, whether it's stage, screen or something interactive like historical faire, is a performance venue. There's still a point at which I can't suspend disbelief anymore. I think the worst case is when there's obviously been a lot of work put into accuracy, and one or two costumes (the stars', usually) just don't match. andy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 18:30:10 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43MUA6M032721 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 18:30:10 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43MOu1N027410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 18:30:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43MOTe2020998 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 16:24:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43MOR79003932; Thu, 3 May 2007 16:24:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s36.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s36.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.172]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43MOOst003829 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 16:24:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.15]) by bay0-omc2-s36.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Thu, 3 May 2007 15:24:19 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 3 May 2007 15:24:19 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 70.56.178.22 by BAY133-DAV5.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 03 May 2007 22:24:19 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.56.178.22] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "Historical Costume" References: <112129.62617.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <463A3639.5030904@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 15:24:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 3 May 2007 15:24:21 -0700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 May 2007 22:24:19.0595 (UTC) FILETIME=[CAF2F5B0:01C78DD1] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Beau Brummel X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: eecf10d2-3143-433d-8f5f-4137fb39ff91 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463A6138.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 18:30:00 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Oooh Ahhhh, thank you for bring this to our attention. I have wanted to = see this ever since I watched him in Rome...yummmmm, yummmmm.. Sg ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dawn=20 To: Historical Costume=20 Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 12:21 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Beau Brummel (was Theater vs Historic ) MaggiRos wrote: > And are we all ready for James Purefoy (sigh, faint, > oh my) this sunday as Beau Brummel?=20 >=20 > BBC America at 8:00pm for those who subscribe. The > website only has a few pictures, but he looks, dare I > say it, dandy! > = > >=20 Oh, yum! Is this going to be a series or a stand-alone movie? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com = http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 18:31:25 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43MVPBW032767 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 18:31:25 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43MVB2t029348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 18:31:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43MUd1o021622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 16:30:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43MUaYR008016; Thu, 3 May 2007 16:30:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43MUV7e007952 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 16:30:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29696 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 17:30:36 -0500 Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 17:30:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 In-Reply-To: <005d01c78dd0$3e3e4210$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c640dd3e-b42d-4577-aa30-c631da179672 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463A62AF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 18:31:15 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Thu, 3 May 2007, Sharon Collier wrote: > If you film in Hampton Court Palace or an authentic mock up of it on a > sound stage, the costumes should be stylistically the same. If the > show is filmed with a more fantasy feel to the sets, I can accept more > leeway in the costumes. It jars less if the set and costumes match. > It often seems more a visceral reaction than a well thought out one. > More like a feeling that something isn't "right". Anyone else feel > this way? Most definitely, and that states well what I was trying to get at when I said I give a lot more leeway to a stage production (which almost by definition is a representation rather than a replication of reality) than to a film, a medium that almost always cultivates an aura of realism. It occurs to me that the productions that get the most criticism on this list are historical drama, particularly those that purport to be realistic (say, "Elizabeth," which offered film-linked packets for school history programs as part of its marketing, as opposed to "Orlando," which was also set partly at the Elizabethan court but had a strong fantastical/satirical element). It may be that the criticism of such productions is what some people have interpreted as a bias against theatrical costumers. Not at all -- theatrical costume, like re-enactment costume, fantasy costume, museum reproduction, and any other type of costuming can be done well or poorly, and the needs change depending on the goals and limitations of the situation. I think most of us recognize that and try to judge each case on the nature of its medium. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 18:46:09 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43Mk9sf000735 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 18:46:09 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43MjtfX026885 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 18:45:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43MjIZI023019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 16:45:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43MjHPD018340; Thu, 3 May 2007 16:45:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from metis.sjsu.edu (metis.sjsu.edu [130.65.3.15]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43MjEt3018253 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 16:45:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from attrembl@bovil.com) Received: from [130.65.37.188] (sjs-130-65-37-188.sjsu.edu [130.65.37.188]) by metis.sjsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43Mj8av012634 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 15:45:08 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Andrew T Trembley Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Butterick pattern 5061 Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 15:45:07 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 40d2f7b3-6c7b-406a-84f2-ddfe5d0bef5b X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463A6623.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 18:45:59 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On May 3, 2007, at 3:30 PM, Robin Netherton wrote: > It occurs to me that the productions that get the most criticism on > this > list are historical drama, particularly those that purport to be > realistic > (say, "Elizabeth," which offered film-linked packets for school > history > programs as part of its marketing, as opposed to "Orlando," which > was also > set partly at the Elizabethan court but had a strong fantastical/ > satirical > element). I remember the uproar in academic circles about "Elizabeth" offering the "history" packets. This after the director blathered on and on in interviews about how he wanted to tell a modern story and discarded most of the history. "Shakespeare in Love" was much more interesting. It proudly took up the mantle of historical fantasy, and yet it captured the period much better. andy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 19:11:08 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43NB8Fr001561 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 19:11:08 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43N5sDM018723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 19:10:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43N4uPQ025207 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 17:04:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43N4pGO031893; Thu, 3 May 2007 17:04:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.200.81]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43N4l8R031817 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 17:04:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy4@comcast.net) Message-Id: <200705032304.l43N4l8R031817@net.indra.com> Received: from stuckis.comcast.net (c-71-207-16-152.hsd1.pa.comcast.net[71.207.16.152]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2007050323044201100fdpvae>; Thu, 3 May 2007 23:04:42 +0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 19:04:46 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Dianne & Greg Stucki Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Beau Brummel (was Theater vs Historic ) In-Reply-To: <818475.62527.qm@web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <463A3639.5030904@reddawn.net> <818475.62527.qm@web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4efa8c5d-d0ca-4370-9150-9842ac84ed7e X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 463A6AD2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 19:10:57 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At 04:52 PM 5/3/2007, you wrote: >I can't see any mention of multiple parts, so it >appears to be a 1-shot thing. BBC Four calls it a full >length feature, and apparently ran an hour and 20 >minutes, which for BBC America means 2 hours. That looks just yummy. THAT I will stay up to watch! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 19:53:18 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43NrIvs003061 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 19:53:18 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l43Nm4XW022777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 19:53:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l43NlfhN029743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 17:47:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43NlbN3056429; Thu, 3 May 2007 17:47:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alnrmhc16.comcast.net (alnrmhc16.comcast.net [206.18.177.56]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l43NlYY8056381 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 17:47:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-24-61-47-3.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.61.47.3]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc16) with SMTP id <20070503234729b1600hlin6e>; Thu, 3 May 2007 23:47:29 +0000 In-Reply-To: <8957133F-FCEA-4CE4-A420-80078EF61D74@mindspring.com> References: <4638B07A.8000300@reddawn.net><200705021923.32859.cathy@thyrsus.com><004b01c78d15$40cfac50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD><4e44f11b8f5d56bc1536328ed9fa7eb2@ntw.net><013601c78d17$8d286ef0$0200a8c0@boris> <014d01c78d1b$08347f00$0200a8c0@boris> <8957133F-FCEA-4CE4-A420-80078EF61D74@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) X-Priority: 3 Message-Id: <9455F416-2ACF-4391-AEC4-9A764DD17053@comcast.net> From: Lauren Walker Subject: Re: [h-cost]Theatrer vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern 5061) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 19:47:26 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 66be7558-5bdc-4664-a39d-8586c527889d X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463A74B4.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 19:53:08 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO It's funny, but actually, studying historic costume has made me appreciate what ELSE theatrical and movie costumers are doing more than I did before I knew where to hunt down period-correct sartorial information. When I'm dressing for re-enacting, I strive for ever more accurate accouterment, because the story we are telling as re- enactors is either This Is What It Was Like or sometimes This Is How It Differs From Now. Strict authenticity is the point in that effort. And I have to say that often what is most authentic is not to my own personal, modern taste, so I have to tell my personal, modern taste to shut up. But the story in a play or movie is usually one that reflects a moral issue that resonates with the modern audience. And what theatrical costumers do, sometimes breathtakingly, is to evoke the historic period while also using visual clothing symbolism that will enhance the characterizations in modern eyes. Thus, as someone on this list pointed out a while ago, the hair and makeup of the romantic leads will usually be the least authentic, for they must telegraph beauty and desirability and probably moral good as well to the modern audience. (Though I've recently been impressed by the costuming for the Showtime series "Dexter" -- how do you dress a sociopathic serial killer who is attempting to live by a moral code in order to pass for normal?) Even when using modern-day wardrobe for modern characters, the way they select color and cut paints a character portrait with amazing nuance. With historical stuff, they have to work with the double vision of what the characters might have worn in period and what will look, to modern viewers, like what the characters might have worn. Because most viewers are not going to tell their personal, modern taste to shut up. But then they get us, complaining because the costumes go beyond This Is What It Was Like and try to help tell the story! Anyway as for the Butterick pattern, I think the answer to "what era is it?" might be, "whatever year you want it to be." The jackets look kind of 1940s/50s boudoir to me. Lauren Lauren M. Walker lauren.walker@comcast.net On May 3, 2007, at 3:51 PM, Ruth Anne Baumgartner wrote: > > But the biggest issue, to my mind, is what the costume communicates > to the audience, because that's the ultimate question for any > aspect of a theatrical production. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 20:26:26 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l440QQau004197 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 20:26:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l440QCJX025883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 20:26:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l440KWP9032985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 18:20:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l440KP7w073687; Thu, 3 May 2007 18:20:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l440KMdv073616 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 18:20:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m107.in-tch.com [216.166.191.107]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id l4405kB20749 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 18:05:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <002301c78de3$484c48c0$6bbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost]Theater vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 18:29:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 23e0557e-cea8-41d8-b224-a4a8637482ab X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463A7DA4.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 20:26:16 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Frankly, I thinking working with fabrics in authentic widths would be a blast. But then, I'm here more for the historical/reenactment end of things. And if I ever win the lottery (not that I play, mind you, but....), then porsches be darned, I'm getting some of those exquisite silk velvets that cost, what was it, 1500? 1600? euro/meter? --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 1:45 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost]Theater vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern > > What most of us couldn't afford to today is the amount of money people > in the past had to spend on a single outfit. One noble person's single > ensemble,during the reign of Elizabeth I, for court wear, could cost as > much as a Porshe or more today. And would we want to have to work with > lengths of expensive fabrics as narrow as 21" wide? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 20:37:14 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l440bEDf004645 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 20:37:14 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l440ZSqC030792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 20:37:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l440Z9Tl034665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 18:35:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l440Z8kN081898; Thu, 3 May 2007 18:35:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.68]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l440Z5aX081837 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 18:35:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=cGjBbWu2tQ/a2IMDcCSW1fKNpIO9hiIjjFuqmaVAyFuGcZBEi3jYlq4FrzgFMNmz; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.100.124.1] (helo=boris) by elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HjllE-0000Hn-5u for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 03 May 2007 20:35:00 -0400 Message-ID: <048301c78de4$c876b070$0200a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002301c78de3$484c48c0$6bbfa6d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost]Theater vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 17:40:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd48a589c083c3d1f549e825f93f26828ca293caf27dac41a8fd350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.100.124.1 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1bb7aa9b-39f3-41ac-8f54-67a0bac00e50 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 463A7FD0.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 20:37:03 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > Frankly, I thinking working with fabrics in authentic widths would be a > blast. But then, I'm here more for the historical/reenactment end of > things. And if I ever win the lottery (not that I play, mind you, > but....), > then porsches be darned, I'm getting some of those exquisite silk velvets > that cost, what was it, 1500? 1600? euro/meter? > --Sue I'm with you there....and then I want to just roll around on it for a while. Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 21:53:47 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l441rlst007797 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 21:53:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l441rXp0017346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 21:53:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l441quKC042585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 19:52:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l441qpbe020447; Thu, 3 May 2007 19:52:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s16.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s16.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.152]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l441qmeL020373 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 19:52:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from echoe_3@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.117]) by bay0-omc2-s16.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Thu, 3 May 2007 18:52:42 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 3 May 2007 18:52:43 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.55.138.123 by by133fd.bay133.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 04 May 2007 01:52:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.12.72.162] X-Originating-Email: [echoe_3@hotmail.com] X-Sender: echoe_3@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <9455F416-2ACF-4391-AEC4-9A764DD17053@comcast.net> From: "echo echoe" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost]Theatrer vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern 5061) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 01:52:40 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 May 2007 01:52:43.0144 (UTC) FILETIME=[E7A52080:01C78DEE] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 79093ba7-c71c-4bf9-b3ed-eab260395455 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 463A921D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 21:53:37 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hello, I joined the list after talking to a weaver & dyer at the Southwest School of Art & Craft in San Antonio last month who pointed me to some web links that address the production of cloth. I was in hope of finding someone in North America (preferably) or Europe who I could talk to regarding construction, materials & techniques that would have been used for the manufacture of military insignia in Germany during the 1920's - 1940's. I am part of a small circle of serious collectors & students who study the cloth, metallic piping, metallic embroidery & cotton embroidery used in these pieces. Although it may sound paradoxical, the quality of work in these pieces is very sophisticated and quite beautiful. If anyone could suggest a source I would really appreciate it. And no, we don't have shaved heads, wear combat boots or show up at ignorant, misguided, hate-filled demonstrations or sport confederate flags on our cars. Thank You Tom Chaney Oklahoma City >From: Lauren Walker >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: Historical Costume >Subject: Re: [h-cost]Theatrer vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern 5061) >Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 19:47:26 -0400 > >It's funny, but actually, studying historic costume has made me appreciate >what ELSE theatrical and movie costumers are doing more than I did before >I knew where to hunt down period-correct sartorial information. When I'm >dressing for re-enacting, I strive for ever more accurate accouterment, >because the story we are telling as re- enactors is either This Is What It >Was Like or sometimes This Is How It Differs From Now. Strict authenticity >is the point in that effort. And I have to say that often what is most >authentic is not to my own personal, modern taste, so I have to tell my >personal, modern taste to shut up. > >But the story in a play or movie is usually one that reflects a moral >issue that resonates with the modern audience. And what theatrical >costumers do, sometimes breathtakingly, is to evoke the historic period >while also using visual clothing symbolism that will enhance the >characterizations in modern eyes. Thus, as someone on this list pointed >out a while ago, the hair and makeup of the romantic leads will usually be >the least authentic, for they must telegraph beauty and desirability and >probably moral good as well to the modern audience. (Though I've recently >been impressed by the costuming for the Showtime series "Dexter" -- how do >you dress a sociopathic serial killer who is attempting to live by a moral >code in order to pass for normal?) Even when using modern-day wardrobe for >modern characters, the way they select color and cut paints a character >portrait with amazing nuance. With historical stuff, they have to work >with the double vision of what the characters might have worn in period >and what will look, to modern viewers, like what the characters might >have worn. Because most viewers are not going to tell their personal, >modern taste to shut up. > >But then they get us, complaining because the costumes go beyond This Is >What It Was Like and try to help tell the story! > >Anyway as for the Butterick pattern, I think the answer to "what era is >it?" might be, "whatever year you want it to be." The jackets look kind of >1940s/50s boudoir to me. > >Lauren >Lauren M. Walker >lauren.walker@comcast.net > > > >On May 3, 2007, at 3:51 PM, Ruth Anne Baumgartner wrote: > >> >>But the biggest issue, to my mind, is what the costume communicates to >>the audience, because that's the ultimate question for any aspect of a >>theatrical production. > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 3 23:25:51 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l443PoY0011548 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 23:25:51 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l443MPdW004986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 3 May 2007 23:25:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l443M06A051132 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 3 May 2007 21:22:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l443Lt5j063733; Thu, 3 May 2007 21:21:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from orion.dandy.net (orion.dandy.net [209.128.224.36]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l443LqNg063683 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 21:21:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [209.128.234.1] (phil2001.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.234.1]) by orion.dandy.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 059195C6DB for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 23:21:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <463AA6CD.8060905@dandy.net> Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 23:21:49 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th-century short pants???? References: <8C95AFE150724A2-1654-2A26@WEBMAIL-RA09.sysops.aol.com> <4639611D.5020206@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <4639611D.5020206@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: aa2ac7f0-b635-4729-9f43-b834c83ae1a2 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463AA6F1.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 03 May 2007 23:25:40 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi, All. The man (Uriah) in the painting is wearing typical "Landsknecht" style clothing. The full joined hose of the late 15th C. have become upper and nether hose. The upper will develop into breeches later on. You could make them for an overheated person, but to be correct, the uppers will be woolen with a linen lining, cut on the bias, and the lowers (nethers) just woolen. There exists a pair of linen hosen (full, joined) from somewhere in Germany or Holland, I can't remember offhand. I have seen the illos showing the strange "points" at the knees, some looking like the point is a lining or perhaps a long shirt, I'm not sure. On the one shown, the material is all blue, making it look like the hose or the lining (not a shirt, definitely). All this is, then, is the hose of the 15th C. separated at the knee into what becomes breeches and stockings. Cheers, Mike T. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 02:28:29 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l446SSCZ028319 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 02:28:28 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l446QH9M010858 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 02:28:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l446PmJS073087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 00:25:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l446Pibc048039; Fri, 4 May 2007 00:25:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l446PfsG047973 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 00:25:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=igc.org; b=CgyNQ7suF2tIvp6GA6XOVzZKJkYRW734hMKFK1r/nNxOZGjjjCAVI36rtuj0ocPt; h=Received:Mime-Version:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Message-Id:Content-Transfer-Encoding:From:Subject:Date:To:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [69.105.81.204] (helo=[172.16.1.10]) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.34) id 1HjrEW-0006Jq-1u for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 May 2007 02:25:36 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <273812A2-3FBC-4008-9224-EF90CAA7F6D3@igc.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Chris Laning Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 23:25:12 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-ELNK-Trace: 295639c8be741617f84080ff3e30f22c880d7a847296b87feb0d7c78f4da24c2350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.105.81.204 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b0ac46a2-68dd-41fb-8345-6d52faa0accc X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 463AD209.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 02:28:18 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On May 3, 2007, at 3:30 PM, Robin Netherton wrote: > It occurs to me that the productions that get the most criticism on > this > list are historical drama, particularly those that purport to be > realistic > (say, "Elizabeth," which offered film-linked packets for school > history > programs as part of its marketing, as opposed to "Orlando," which > was also > set partly at the Elizabethan court but had a strong fantastical/ > satirical > element). Yes. For me, at least, less-than-accurate costumes are not really the problem. The REAL irritation is that film directors (etc.) blithely do whatever they think "feels right" with the costumes AND then have the audacity to claim that their renditions are "accurate", "thoroughly researched," and (deities help us) "educational." Which thoroughly -- and unnecessarily -- confuses anyone who actually IS trying to do research and/or education. If they would stop making the silly claims, the clothing wouldn't matter nearly as much. The same goes for messing with history for the sake of the plot. It's OK to invent how history might have been, or could have been if things had happened differently, or how modern people would react if put in that situation, or for that matter, it's OK to produce allegories about modern times disguised as "history." What is NOT OK is to then claim that your rendition is somehow "more true" than what actually happened, or to produce school education packets asserting that real historical figures actually DID what you have imagined. Of course, I think it's quite legitimate to present a different "take" on real history as "the real thing" when there actually IS historical evidence for it. Scholars can, do, and always will differ on what actually happened and why. What I don't think is legitimate is to take half-baked or widely criticized ideas (aliens building the pyramids, anyone?) and present them as sober historical fact WITHOUT planting plenty of clues that you're not _really_ serious. I didn't see "Shakespeare in Love," but those who watched it closely tell me that a Stratford-on-Avon souvenir mug appeared fairly prominently, early in the film. Nice touch. ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 05:30:47 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l449UkZh000436 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 05:30:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l449PWlO005515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 05:30:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l449OpG3086762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 03:24:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l449Ol1c028500; Fri, 4 May 2007 03:24:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l449OifT028436 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 03:24:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.bf9.15c353b6 (14467) for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 05:24:30 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 05:24:28 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5365 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7e8bd707-8b69-4845-beb2-80ab816ec470 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 463AFC0C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 05:30:36 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/4/2007 2:26:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, claning@igc.org writes: The REAL irritation is that film directors (etc.) blithely do whatever they think "feels right" with the costumes AND then have the audacity to claim that their renditions are "accurate", "thoroughly researched," Well said! I think most of us can appreciate "it's theatre," so long as everyone involved admits that is what it is. Ann Wass ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 09:39:53 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44DdrSY005123 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 09:39:53 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l44Dbu7O011152 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 09:39:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l44CbY6L002797 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 06:37:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44CbUFO011370; Fri, 4 May 2007 06:37:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp101.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp101.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.139]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l44CbQ8K011265 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 06:37:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 23984 invoked from network); 4 May 2007 12:37:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.150.82 with login) by smtp101.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2007 12:37:21 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: O33uJ8cVM1nYCqaUrBuek3YetSxcdI8a5Bh1DpGNlZ3GM03oWSgtFAwKxX9cmTRzI36sYh4h4nrXV7gRprYP_862ht8- Message-ID: <001801c78e48$ee64ee50$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002301c78de3$484c48c0$6bbfa6d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost]Theater vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 08:37:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 40f325a5-01f7-4ebb-b253-f36e2d8f0210 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463B3734.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 09:39:43 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO A nearer time period for this study of the constraints of fabric width/usage and its effect on clothing design is the Utility rules in place during WW2. There were strict rules for manufacturers of civilian wear in how much fabric could be used for specified garments. These restrictions are directly seen in the creative cut and line of fashion developed. I have been aware for some time that when you come across referances of a gown taking 10-18 yards of fabric in the 18th when the fab.width of the time was 22-28" that is you combine these measurements with the average width of todays yardage that it comes out roughly to about half the historical yardage. Have you ever tried to put 10panels of skirt yardage on a 25" waist? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost]Theater vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern > Frankly, I thinking working with fabrics in authentic widths would be a > blast. But then, I'm here more for the historical/reenactment end of > things. And if I ever win the lottery (not that I play, mind you, > but....), > then porsches be darned, I'm getting some of those exquisite silk velvets > that cost, what was it, 1500? 1600? euro/meter? > --Sue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Abel, Cynthia" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 1:45 PM > Subject: RE: [h-cost]Theater vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern > > >> >> What most of us couldn't afford to today is the amount of money people >> in the past had to spend on a single outfit. One noble person's single >> ensemble,during the reign of Elizabeth I, for court wear, could cost as >> much as a Porshe or more today. And would we want to have to work with >> lengths of expensive fabrics as narrow as 21" wide? > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 13:51:53 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44HpqCq016495 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 13:51:52 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l44HoHs9008986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 13:51:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l44HmAWl046367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 11:48:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44HlVj9070304; Fri, 4 May 2007 11:47:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44HlRID070228 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 11:47:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.161] (pm5-161.eos.net [205.133.149.161]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l44Hlj7J021070 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 13:47:47 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 13:28:27 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200705040611.l446AteK041507@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: theatrical vs. historic costuming X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5c103f88-2ddc-495c-a6c4-a43ed79f42f4 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463B7259.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 13:51:42 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Sharon wrote: > "A Knight's Tale" is a great example. I don't know much about the period, > but most of the costumes seemed okay. Except for the female lead. She stuck > out like a sore thumb. I especially remember the hat that looked like > something from "Breakfast at Tiffany's". Actually, Sharon, none of the costumes were authentic in that film. I'm not sure what you are saying it's a great example of. Personally, I loved the costumes -- they had the FEEL of the historic period, while they were done in all sorts of weird fabrics, etc. I loved that whole "Breakfast at Tiffany's" outfit, and I know exactly which paintings inspired it! Another fun one is "Brother Sun, Sister Moon," the Franco Zeffirelli film about St. Francis. All sorts of bizarre fabrics used there, combining the period-like look of the garments with the textures and colors he wanted. If a story is supposed to be fantasy medieval, renaissance, Victorian, or just "old time" then I generally like it. As others have said, it's when directors or PR people tout the historical accuracy when costumes get on my nerves. Anyone remember the Kevin Costner film that can't be named? I mean, the one set in England in Sherwood Forest -- not other Kevin Costner films that can't be named. They went on and on about the historical accuracy in that one, and it stunk. The costumes need to help tell the story, and there are many legitimate ways to do that. What bugs me in a theater setting is when the costumes are amateurish (if it's a professional theater) or old and moth-eaten. One summer our opera company rented two sets of costumes that were just horrendous, and the main problem is that they looked about 30 years old and falling apart. One was for an opera about the French Revolution, and the company had all the main characters' costumes made while they rented the costumes for the aristocrats/chorus. The main costumes, for peasants, were much nicer than the aristocrats, who looked as if they had definitely fallen on hard times! But those things happen in theater... Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 14:20:53 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44IKr59017748 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 14:20:53 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l44IKd5g000534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 14:20:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l44IIem2050438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 12:18:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44II2pA097064; Fri, 4 May 2007 12:18:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from forsoothmail.sca.org (forsoothmail.sca.org [64.39.30.44]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44IHvHA096978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 12:18:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from orla@lady.sca.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=lady.sca.org) by forsoothmail.sca.org with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hk2Ls-00042S-L3 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 May 2007 13:17:57 -0500 Received: from 205.156.36.14 (SquirrelMail authenticated user orla@lady.sca.org) by webmail2.sca.org with HTTP; Fri, 4 May 2007 14:17:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <49901.205.156.36.14.1178302676.squirrel@webmail2.sca.org> Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 14:17:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lady Orla Carey" To: In-Reply-To: <200705041801.l44I0tLr082260@net.indra.com> References: <200705041801.l44I0tLr082260@net.indra.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV at sca.org X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) X-Spam-Score-Int: -42 X-Spam-Settings-User: h-costume@indra.com X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: theatrical vs. historic costuming X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8144fca5-9fc6-479a-ba67-79015f4fb8b4 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463B7977.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 14:20:43 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I'm willing to bet that the great example Sharon is talking about is that "A Knight's Tale" doesn't pretend to be history. Several choices by the director (like the music) make it very clear that it's a "fun" music so the costumes weren't quite as annoying as they could have been. Orla From: Gail & Scott Finke Sharon wrote: > "A Knight's Tale" is a great example. I don't know much about the period, > but most of the costumes seemed okay. Except for the female lead. She stuck > out like a sore thumb. I especially remember the hat that looked like > something from "Breakfast at Tiffany's". Actually, Sharon, none of the costumes were authentic in that film. I'm not sure what you are saying it's a great example of. Personally, I loved the costumes -- they had the FEEL of the historic period, while they were done in all sorts of weird fabrics, etc. I loved that whole "Breakfast at Tiffany's" outfit, and I know exactly which paintings inspired it! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 15:02:06 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44J25lt019445 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 15:02:05 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l44J18OE031331 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 15:01:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l44J0Cav056549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 13:00:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44J05BJ032209; Fri, 4 May 2007 13:00:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44J01Ee032147 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 13:00:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A0E01735048E; Fri, 04 May 2007 18:52:16 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 12:00:06 -0700 Message-ID: <005d01c78e7e$6e0c45b0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 52a6d717-967c-42f8-9d02-9f85eb4e433c X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463B82F5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 15:01:55 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I think what really bothers me is when some costumes are authentic or at least close and others are so far off as to be "fantasy". The mens' = costumes in The Tudors look close, but the women's, with the loose hair, bare arms/shoulders, are further out. To me, they don't match stylistically = and that jars. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] = On Behalf Of AnnBWass@aol.com Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 2:24 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic =20 In a message dated 5/4/2007 2:26:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, =20 claning@igc.org writes: The REAL irritation is that film directors (etc.) blithely =20 do whatever they think "feels right" with the costumes AND then have =20 the audacity to claim that their renditions are "accurate", =20 "thoroughly researched," =20 Well said! I think most of us can appreciate "it's theatre," so long = as=20 everyone involved admits that is what it is. =20 Ann Wass ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 15:44:13 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44JiCZ5030323 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 15:44:12 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l44Jh07G031282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 15:44:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l44JeXg6062162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 13:40:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44JdAFx065281; Fri, 4 May 2007 13:39:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from barra1.swissinfo.org (barra1.barra.srg.ch [146.159.6.75]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44Jd6Vx065158 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 13:39:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from swissgirl@swissinfo.org) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1178307534-4f0500660000-L6CAXr X-Barracuda-URL: http://146.159.6.75:8000/cgi-bin/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Connect: kuma.sri.ch[194.6.181.33] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1178307534 X-ASG-Whitelist: Sender Received: from mail.swissinfo.org (kuma.sri.ch [194.6.181.33]) by barra1.swissinfo.org (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id 223E7353F1 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 21:38:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from compaqub (24.216.120.37) by mail.swissinfo.org (7.2.064.1) (authenticated as swissgirl) id 45DAE0BC033E53E8 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 4 May 2007 20:58:53 +0200 Message-ID: <005d01c78e7e$506a8490$1f00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200705041801.l44I0tLr082260@net.indra.com> <49901.205.156.36.14.1178302676.squirrel@webmail2.sca.org> X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [h-cost] Re: theatrical vs. historic costuming Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: theatrical vs. historic costuming Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 13:59:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Barracuda-Virus-Scanned: by Barracuda Spam Firewall at swissinfo.org X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: becaae4d-0181-4516-89f4-422275f2a318 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463B8CC4.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 15:44:02 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- > Actually, Sharon, none of the costumes were authentic in that film. I'm > not > sure what you are saying it's a great example of. Personally, I loved the > costumes -- they had the FEEL of the historic period, while they were done > in all sorts of weird fabrics, etc. I loved that whole "Breakfast at > Tiffany's" outfit, and I know exactly which paintings inspired it! Many of the peasant/tournament audience member extras who were on screen for a brief flash were definitely accuracy-minded reenactors. Not from the right period, from what I remember, but at least accurate for _a_ period. Having never seen "Breakfast at Tiffany's," which outfit was that? and which painting? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 17:13:54 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44LDsXC001666 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 17:13:54 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l44LDdVF002104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 17:13:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l44LDFiD073109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 15:13:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44LDAI9047567; Fri, 4 May 2007 15:13:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.248]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l44LD7if047470 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 15:13:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 37814 invoked by uid 60001); 4 May 2007 21:13:02 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=HYKGBbMzV3bee+MvjmkzIT7N6/U9Y6ELNRnsLT30cfNjgkgwi6/LmBC6mJBSEH/74o1emVEQmIhWhfHnAbrbytBjgP75rpD5+BJSNe98Ky1dVUWMglWceBJn8gV9shoPTtHeuTDm1VcGn84UfCLjTwzrpvrgwKl5BfVaO0IuQrs=; X-YMail-OSG: ZWs2Z5MVM1mIiHVcG5UZtA5mvP.iECyvI9HHU5bzCsSvt_gnpt2qDEWkqYnkW_Fh4JQx_wAdvQ-- Received: from [208.179.44.218] by web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 May 2007 14:13:02 PDT Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 14:13:02 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <005d01c78e7e$6e0c45b0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <259512.37483.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=18% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 25df58d1-c5e6-451e-a2a3-c1f317298548 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463BA204.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 17:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO That's it exactly. I've concluded that since they're making up the "history" they might as well make up the costumes too. I've also stopped trying to watch it, and picked up a fresh DVD copy of Keith Michell's Six Wives of Henry VIII from the 70s. What a joy to watch. That show was on a limited budget, and yet everything looks (from camera distance) perfect! I feel much better now. MaggiRos ~who loves A Knight's Tale a whole lot --- Sharon Collier wrote: > I think what really bothers me is when some costumes > are authentic or at > least close and others are so far off as to be > "fantasy". The mens' costumes > in The Tudors look close, but the women's, with the > loose hair, bare > arms/shoulders, are further out. To me, they don't > match stylistically and > that jars. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 17:50:32 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44LoVwu003090 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 17:50:31 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l44LjnV4017400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 17:50:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l44LjEkh077489 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 15:45:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44LjCGU074249; Fri, 4 May 2007 15:45:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp101.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp101.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.139]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l44Lj77g074091 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 15:45:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 24624 invoked from network); 4 May 2007 21:44:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.156.53 with login) by smtp101.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2007 21:44:59 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: lg7PmgsVM1m.GrwUPZ5LSxEvfnP6hIjd5TBxcToBbI.H1_EU.OwKZkHVqgnELKs.nb9DaIBkRbiXPwvAScOm02PfQ6V8UwLlBHxy0Q-- Message-ID: <001e01c78e95$710bd2a0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005d01c78e7e$6e0c45b0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 17:44:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 85f3603e-381b-4d76-b8e6-13583c42e94f X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463BA98D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 17:50:21 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO This was my problem with the latest Marie Antionette. The women's hair in general was way off. The film people seem to make decisions of Costume that must bow to present aesthitcs...that, and the need to use modern music in case the viewers might have missed a contemporary mood/thought about MA being a Modern woman. Kathleen From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 3:00 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic I think what really bothers me is when some costumes are authentic or at least close and others are so far off as to be "fantasy". The mens' costumes in The Tudors look close, but the women's, with the loose hair, bare arms/shoulders, are further out. To me, they don't match stylistically and that jars. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of AnnBWass@aol.com Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 2:24 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic In a message dated 5/4/2007 2:26:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, claning@igc.org writes: The REAL irritation is that film directors (etc.) blithely do whatever they think "feels right" with the costumes AND then have the audacity to claim that their renditions are "accurate", "thoroughly researched," Well said! I think most of us can appreciate "it's theatre," so long as everyone involved admits that is what it is. Ann Wass ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 17:57:13 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44LvDD7003332 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 17:57:13 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l44Luxcs023223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 17:57:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l44LucLq078909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 15:56:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44Lub4e082879; Fri, 4 May 2007 15:56:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from paradise.gen.nz (qmailr@tombstone.paradise.gen.nz [202.49.254.2]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44LuUPf082782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 15:56:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gold@where.else.net.nz) Received: (qmail 1113 invoked by uid 1057); 4 May 2007 21:56:29 -0000 Received: from 121.73.25.58 by tombstone (envelope-from , uid 71) with qmail-scanner-1.24 (clamdscan: 0.80/599. spamassassin: 3.0.1. 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(gold@121.73.25.58) by tombstone.paradise.gen.nz with SMTP; 4 May 2007 21:56:29 -0000 Message-ID: <463BABE4.8060807@where.else.net.nz> Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 09:55:48 +1200 From: Melissa Brown Muckart User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tippet color References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: fa27d5d8-4538-42c9-8acf-7f55ed3d97fa X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463BAC2B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 17:57:02 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Dear Robin. Robin Netherton wrote: > Hi, Melissa. There are plenty of images of backs of tippets, including > some in my article. > > Let me know if this helps. Yes, it helped immensely. Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my question. I have always thought of tippets as being all white - streamer and cuff - but wanted to get some clarification and another opinion. Best, Melissa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 18:02:36 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44M2aX5003534 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 18:02:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l44LvM9J010097 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 18:02:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l44Luw7O078940 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 15:56:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44LuugB083139; Fri, 4 May 2007 15:56:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m26.mx.aol.com (imo-m26.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44Lupvs083010 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 15:56:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.d46.8690f76 (41811) for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 17:56:40 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 17:56:38 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5365 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: aeb9e96e-bdf8-44fe-9906-6d64a4749894 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 463BAC42.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 18:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/4/2007 5:45:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: The film people seem to make decisions of Costume that must bow to present aesthitcs... According to Ed Maeder, in his "Hollywood and History," that accompanied an exhibit of the same name from LACMA some years ago, makeup and hairstyles in films very often reflect the contemporary aesthetic, even if the costumes do not so much. Ann Wass ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 19:22:02 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44NM2nK006700 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 19:22:02 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l44NGmqX011409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 19:21:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l44NGLvk088267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 17:16:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44NGHKJ040291; Fri, 4 May 2007 17:16:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc15.comcast.net (rwcrmhc15.comcast.net [204.127.192.85]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44NGEUj040187 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 17:16:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy4@comcast.net) Message-Id: <200705042316.l44NGEUj040187@net.indra.com> Received: from stuckis.comcast.net (c-71-207-16-152.hsd1.pa.comcast.net[71.207.16.152]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc15) with SMTP id <20070504231608m15007iouee>; Fri, 4 May 2007 23:16:08 +0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 19:16:14 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Dianne & Greg Stucki Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic In-Reply-To: <259512.37483.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <005d01c78e7e$6e0c45b0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> <259512.37483.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 621e161d-c3a9-4dc3-9813-bb61d721b79a X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463BBEE0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 19:21:52 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At 05:13 PM 5/4/2007, you wrote: >MaggiRos >~who loves A Knight's Tale a whole lot >. (grin) So do I. In fact, I just watched it today. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 20:09:26 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4509Qoq008463 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 20:09:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4509BH1010059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 20:09:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4508sHr093594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 18:08:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4508qVg072695; Fri, 4 May 2007 18:08:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp101.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp101.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.139]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4508mu7072623 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 18:08:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 98788 invoked from network); 5 May 2007 00:08:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.245.29 with login) by smtp101.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 May 2007 00:08:39 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: x1fO6d4VM1nDiwXN.uu4FfW3rHsA6vzns4pCWtC5yGAtkQpSxxugfgEoHJQk58SDThU5_tJ2mbl5yuKfhzGsd11A2NU- Message-ID: <002d01c78ea9$817823a0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005d01c78e7e$6e0c45b0$0200a8c0@bob3pc><259512.37483.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200705042316.l44NGEUj040187@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 20:08:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 52f56aaa-eaa0-4d16-9d7d-953a13490c51 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463BCB28.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 20:09:15 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Having been otherwise a" about these costumes when the Robbin Hood series began, I do remember the Aghast!!! about the costumes. For me, this has been a low budget series with an expanded mythology re 'the HOOD' that at least is on a plane with the old Dr. Who, and has used stereotypical designs to give flesh to the characters. The only jarring moment was a character in a sort of trilby that was Plainly modern (well, 1960s),with another coat roughly 1970s interp of a Medieval surcoat. then, most of the garments are also of the '70s...interpreting the 12/14 Centuries. As long as there is some consistancy, I don't have a problem...Precisley why I also like the "Knight's Tale." kathleen -- Original Message ----- From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 7:16 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic > At 05:13 PM 5/4/2007, you wrote: >>MaggiRos >>~who loves A Knight's Tale a whole lot >. > > > (grin) So do I. In fact, I just watched it today. > > Dianne > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 20:25:09 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l450P926008918 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 20:25:09 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l450Otio018483 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 20:24:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l450O9JH094886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 18:24:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l450O3gr080523; Fri, 4 May 2007 18:24:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mpls-qmqp-04.inet.qwest.net (mpls-qmqp-04.inet.qwest.net [63.231.195.115]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l450O08N080480 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 18:24:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumeraz@qwest.net) Received: from mpls-pop-14.inet.qwest.net (mpls-pop-14.inet.qwest.net [63.231.195.14]) by mpls-qmqp-04.inet.qwest.net (Postfix) with QMQP id 62C2C22E020 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 00:24:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vdsl-130-13-69-62.phnx.qwest.net (HELO buddy) (130.13.69.62) by mpls-pop-14.inet.qwest.net with SMTP; 5 May 2007 00:24:00 -0000 From: "Laurie Taylor" To: "'Historical Costume'" References: <200705040611.l446AteK041507@net.indra.com> Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: theatrical vs. historic costuming Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 17:23:23 -0700 Message-ID: <002701c78eab$982b39f0$0501a8c0@buddy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Thread-index: AceOjeZhR6E6gYsRSZertIhClqx7HQAHOevg X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=17% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c9e25f7f-c476-4a6b-816b-35ae8d69aa4a X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463BCED7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 20:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi, I've been following this thread with rapt fascination. I've learned a lot too. I teach costume history, an introductory course. We've decided to expand our use of films to get the point across about some aspects of costume, including the issue of period accuracy. I need to come up with a list of titles to recommend that our library acquire for our students to access. I will, if I can figure out how, go to the archives and pull a list of movies that have been discussed here, but would welcome any title suggestions that you might care to make, be they good or particularly bad, in the costume aspect. Thanks. Laurie T. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Gail & Scott Finke Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:28 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: theatrical vs. historic costuming Sharon wrote: > "A Knight's Tale" is a great example. I don't know much about the period, > but most of the costumes seemed okay. Except for the female lead. She stuck > out like a sore thumb. I especially remember the hat that looked like > something from "Breakfast at Tiffany's". Actually, Sharon, none of the costumes were authentic in that film. I'm not sure what you are saying it's a great example of. Personally, I loved the costumes -- they had the FEEL of the historic period, while they were done in all sorts of weird fabrics, etc. I loved that whole "Breakfast at Tiffany's" outfit, and I know exactly which paintings inspired it! Another fun one is "Brother Sun, Sister Moon," the Franco Zeffirelli film about St. Francis. All sorts of bizarre fabrics used there, combining the period-like look of the garments with the textures and colors he wanted. If a story is supposed to be fantasy medieval, renaissance, Victorian, or just "old time" then I generally like it. As others have said, it's when directors or PR people tout the historical accuracy when costumes get on my nerves. Anyone remember the Kevin Costner film that can't be named? I mean, the one set in England in Sherwood Forest -- not other Kevin Costner films that can't be named. They went on and on about the historical accuracy in that one, and it stunk. The costumes need to help tell the story, and there are many legitimate ways to do that. What bugs me in a theater setting is when the costumes are amateurish (if it's a professional theater) or old and moth-eaten. One summer our opera company rented two sets of costumes that were just horrendous, and the main problem is that they looked about 30 years old and falling apart. One was for an opera about the French Revolution, and the company had all the main characters' costumes made while they rented the costumes for the aristocrats/chorus. The main costumes, for peasants, were much nicer than the aristocrats, who looked as if they had definitely fallen on hard times! But those things happen in theater... Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 20:53:30 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l450rU66009936 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 20:53:30 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l450rFaV002600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 20:53:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l450qtg3097221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 18:52:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l450qsBe095543; Fri, 4 May 2007 18:52:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.234]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l450qqVr095522 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 18:52:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id t11so992706wxc for ; Fri, 04 May 2007 17:52:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=ZowndXJ9FgZSUr/1YUjHx8UeNL01qfUHtEWL0C7zrVX67Get5o1LjNAjXo7FiE62uZ7lfiigYgE5JAqjOOWojUmL1JwaU+lxEVCtx/RH6IVB7+xJJlpvuDjzM/jLQE/58w17C9DB9mbxxPvJMpFq116Kg42tGwSmTXcbAnajfX8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=Oa58s828j+SxA5gdA5vYIW3O4B/FTAQr7TRpJ9GR4VMQXfnxzGrRf24Xq3XRR9JmwOMGFLuxlO4LnmAv5mR6sbz5YEr5hbqpJh1ekBmJpQ2lbj7ON4lJU2u5iSL1yecGa9CSYF4BEh92y/rXvfAYeyuAOUwhBw2a18KKY6dzkr0= Received: by 10.114.157.1 with SMTP id f1mr1339955wae.1178326368630; Fri, 04 May 2007 17:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.131.18 with HTTP; Fri, 4 May 2007 17:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 17:52:48 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: theatrical vs. historic costuming X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5b82e973-8ff7-426d-a288-376f62cab354 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463BD57C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 20:53:19 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO >> ...the Kevin Costner film that can't be named? ... >> They went on and on about the historical accuracy in >> that one, and it stunk. >Y'all must read/hear/see stuff in places I don't, or something... Where, >exactly, do people go "on and on" about the historical accuracy of costumes >or content in cinematic movies? Did you miss the woman (working as a producer for the show) claiming on the Tudor Tailor list that the costume designers had worked really hard to get the costumes right in "The Tudors"? Ye Gods, that was annoying. It took forever for Jane Stockton to finally throw her constant product pitchmanship off the list. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 21:36:54 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l451as3l011558 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 21:36:54 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l451adJJ029648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 21:36:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l451a9A7000697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 19:36:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l451a65Q017650; Fri, 4 May 2007 19:36:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l446AnKP041458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 00:10:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [209.148.118.74] (209-148-118-74.dial.dynamic.sonic.net [209.148.118.74]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l446AlhL011631 for ; Thu, 3 May 2007 23:10:48 -0700 Message-ID: <463ACE7B.7070903@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 23:11:07 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A great project for someone else X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 31b96eab-57c2-4808-aef0-82b5828f1f45 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463BDFA7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 21:36:43 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Why has no one seemed to publish patterns for Goth styles? I'd think someone would have jumped on it. Yes, I know that there is a lot of variety but the patterns could include different variations, suggestions, etc. Fran _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 21:44:12 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l451iCtb011861 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 21:44:12 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l451dnul023322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 21:44:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l451dNNO001531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 19:39:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l451dN7W020203; Fri, 4 May 2007 19:39:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net (ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net [166.102.165.166]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44IEBKK093600 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 12:14:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net ([162.40.180.22]) by ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20070504181405.IVDC3783.ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net@ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net> for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 13:14:05 -0500 Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.180.22]) by ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20070504181405.YKII3772.ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 13:14:05 -0500 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 13:13:48 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: Re: [h-cost]fabric widths (was Theater vs. Historic) In-Reply-To: <200705041801.l44I0tLr082260@net.indra.com> References: <200705041801.l44I0tLr082260@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Message-Id: <20070504181405.YKII3772.ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=45% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 77638ef1-ded9-4520-aab4-e4fd5d379551 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 463BE065.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 21:44:01 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At 01:01 PM 5/4/2007, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 10:59:58 EDT >From: Cheryldee@aol.com > > >Always nice to change the subject line when the topic changes >radically.....;-) Yes, it is! I have been skipping posts on this topic (Theater vs. Historic).... Does anyone have a good summary of standard widths and lengths of fabrics in the Medieval and Renaissance periods? I know that it varied by type of textile (weave, location and fiber), but all I have is scattered all over the place in my notes. Thanks, Beth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 21:44:12 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l451iCTU011864 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 21:44:12 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l451d3g4016776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 21:44:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l451cghV001298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 19:38:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l451cf3m019643; Fri, 4 May 2007 19:38:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44F0D9S007343 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 09:00:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Cheryldee@aol.com) Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.d51.7e7c80b (29672) for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 11:00:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 10:59:58 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost]fabric widths (was Theater vs. Historic) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.0 VR sub 100 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: e8ead6e8-7f39-4e60-a15e-a1a039235a3a X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 463BE037.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 21:44:02 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/4/2007 6:41:52 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: A nearer time period for this study of the constraints of fabric width/usage and its effect on clothing design is the Utility rules in place during WW2. There were strict rules for manufacturers of civilian wear in how much fabric could be used for specified garments. These restrictions are directly seen in the creative cut and line of fashion developed. Always nice to change the subject line when the topic changes radically.....;-) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 21:44:12 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l451iCDW011865 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 21:44:12 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l451dtun031199 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 21:44:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l451dTm2001558 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 19:39:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l451dTbL020257; Fri, 4 May 2007 19:39:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cgp.netins.net (f2phy.netins.net [167.142.229.65]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44IIZhx097563 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 12:18:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from landofoz@netins.net) X-netINS-MPP: scanned Received: from [67.55.167.82] (account landofoz@netins.net HELO denise8541f2db) by cgpf2.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.13) with ESMTPA id 1302253995 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 May 2007 13:18:35 -0500 Message-ID: <029801c78e78$a60f0390$52a73743@denise8541f2db> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: theatrical vs. historic costuming Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 13:18:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 6c651135-8e49-400c-b665-5a549f4f9155 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463BE06B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 21:44:02 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > directors or PR people tout the historical accuracy when costumes get on > my > nerves. Anyone remember the Kevin Costner film that can't be named? I > mean, > the one set in England in Sherwood Forest -- not other Kevin Costner films > that can't be named. They went on and on about the historical accuracy in > that one, and it stunk. Y'all must read/hear/see stuff in places I don't, or something... Where, exactly, do people go "on and on" about the historical accuracy of costumes or content in cinematic movies? And why do people expect *anything* in the entertainment industry to be accurate -- historically or otherwise? It's entertainment. If you want living history and period authenticity there are better places to expect it than the movies. JMO Denise Iowa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 21:44:15 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l451iCDN011868 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 21:44:12 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l451dt4o009979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 21:44:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l451da9j001596 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 19:39:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l451da4w020349; Fri, 4 May 2007 19:39:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44J4r2u036277 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 13:04:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A203C7F0480; Fri, 04 May 2007 18:57:07 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: theatrical vs. historic costuming Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 12:04:57 -0700 Message-ID: <005e01c78e7f$1bacf8e0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 6f84321c-f272-4ab1-b9e8-ff69cd1c0aa9 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463BE06B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 21:44:02 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Ok, I'm curious. What paintings inspired the "B at T" hat? And I did = like most of the costumes,(they felt right, if that makes any sense), just = the female lead's stood out to me. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] = On Behalf Of Gail & Scott Finke Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:28 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: theatrical vs. historic costuming Sharon wrote: > "A Knight's Tale" is a great example. I don't know much about the = period, > but most of the costumes seemed okay. Except for the female lead. She stuck > out like a sore thumb. I especially remember the hat that looked like > something from "Breakfast at Tiffany's". Actually, Sharon, none of the costumes were authentic in that film. I'm = not sure what you are saying it's a great example of. Personally, I loved = the costumes -- they had the FEEL of the historic period, while they were = done in all sorts of weird fabrics, etc. I loved that whole "Breakfast at Tiffany's" outfit, and I know exactly which paintings inspired it! Another fun one is "Brother Sun, Sister Moon," the Franco Zeffirelli = film about St. Francis. All sorts of bizarre fabrics used there, combining = the period-like look of the garments with the textures and colors he wanted. If a story is supposed to be fantasy medieval, renaissance, Victorian, = or just "old time" then I generally like it. As others have said, it's when directors or PR people tout the historical accuracy when costumes get on = my nerves. Anyone remember the Kevin Costner film that can't be named? I = mean, the one set in England in Sherwood Forest -- not other Kevin Costner = films that can't be named. They went on and on about the historical accuracy = in that one, and it stunk. The costumes need to help tell the story, and there are many legitimate = ways to do that.=20 What bugs me in a theater setting is when the costumes are amateurish = (if it's a professional theater) or old and moth-eaten. One summer our opera company rented two sets of costumes that were just horrendous, and the = main problem is that they looked about 30 years old and falling apart. One = was for an opera about the French Revolution, and the company had all the = main characters' costumes made while they rented the costumes for the aristocrats/chorus. The main costumes, for peasants, were much nicer = than the aristocrats, who looked as if they had definitely fallen on hard = times! But those things happen in theater... Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 21:44:20 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l451iJDu011876 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 21:44:19 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l451i4sI008606 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 21:44:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l451eSHo001859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 19:40:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l451eRXE021075; Fri, 4 May 2007 19:40:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.141]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l44NmRF1061430 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 17:48:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 58488 invoked from network); 4 May 2007 23:48:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.247.95 with login) by smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2007 23:48:22 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: EGNowOkVM1m65HsMD.wYhbF4J8Susjl9ZMO1Q6qirAAdn042b0StLrSNjJ2M2JP5dfoenWYZ2A7lnr4gjHM.7mM4cl_Lfv.HewNI_w-- Message-ID: <001a01c78ea6$ad64fae0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 19:48:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 557d7e33-da9a-44fa-996c-da9e7bab361c X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463BE165.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 21:44:09 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO And we can all add to the lists where this decision was a blatant mistake...I think Kathlwwn ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic > > In a message dated 5/4/2007 5:45:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: > > The film people seem to make decisions of > Costume that must bow to present aesthitcs... > > > According to Ed Maeder, in his "Hollywood and History," that accompanied > an > exhibit of the same name from LACMA some years ago, makeup and hairstyles > in > films very often reflect the contemporary aesthetic, even if the costumes > do > not so much. > > Ann Wass > > > > ************************************** See what's free at > http://www.aol.com. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 22:12:20 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l452CKiQ012981 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 22:12:20 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45282iU023791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 22:12:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4527I8u004361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 20:07:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4527FoB035169; Fri, 4 May 2007 20:07:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s20.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s20.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.220]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4527Cf6035103 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 20:07:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from laswa@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.133.104]) by bay0-omc3-s20.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Fri, 4 May 2007 19:07:07 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 4 May 2007 19:07:07 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.55.133.123 by by128fd.bay128.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 05 May 2007 02:07:07 GMT X-Originating-IP: [75.50.248.19] X-Originating-Email: [laswa@hotmail.com] X-Sender: laswa@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <002701c78eab$982b39f0$0501a8c0@buddy> From: "zelda crusher" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: theatrical vs. historic costuming Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 19:07:07 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 May 2007 02:07:07.0623 (UTC) FILETIME=[1553E770:01C78EBA] X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: net.indra.com 1290; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: d1eb4a14-688f-4646-9ada-5252c9c729f9 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 463BE702.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 22:12:09 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO >From what I can tell, being a relative newbie to Tudor/Elizabethan, "The Six Wives of Henry the VIII" (Keith Mitchell) and it's corollary, "Elizabeth R" with Glenda Jackson (both PBS, 1970's) are two outstandingly well done series as well as my first loves of the period. Laurie >From: "Laurie Taylor" >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: "'Historical Costume'" >Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: theatrical vs. historic costuming >Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 17:23:23 -0700 > >Hi, > >I've been following this thread with rapt fascination. I've learned a lot >too. > >I teach costume history, an introductory course. We've decided to expand >our use of films to get the point across about some aspects of costume, >including the issue of period accuracy. > >I need to come up with a list of titles to recommend that our library >acquire for our students to access. I will, if I can figure out how, go to >the archives and pull a list of movies that have been discussed here, but >would welcome any title suggestions that you might care to make, be they >good or particularly bad, in the costume aspect. > >Thanks. > >Laurie T. > > _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 22:12:22 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l452CMoZ012988 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 22:12:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4529oex017672 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 22:12:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4529W6x004569 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 20:09:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4529W8k036396; Fri, 4 May 2007 20:09:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4529SWs036344 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 20:09:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Y7RR2wylo0BQwM3pRIDW9pdSahE21z5nKUrXzrBJoB3HFiUYMmjvYAasLi3nu/Gr; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.100.124.1] (helo=boris) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Hk9i7-0004UQ-G1 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 04 May 2007 22:09:23 -0400 Message-ID: <071e01c78ebb$2937cda0$0200a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: <029801c78e78$a60f0390$52a73743@denise8541f2db> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: theatrical vs. historic costuming Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 19:14:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd485663cf9b3f2a20f0d7c1a3ba52fb167b07c87288fcf778e7350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.100.124.1 X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: net.indra.com 1290; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ec60becc-c4bb-40d5-a60a-b568297c373b X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463BE76E.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 22:12:11 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > Y'all must read/hear/see stuff in places I don't, or something... Where, > exactly, do people go "on and on" about the historical accuracy of > costumes or content in cinematic movies? If we're talking about The Tudors, the Showtime (or HBO, can't keep them straight) program guide. > > And why do people expect *anything* in the entertainment industry to be > > accurate -- historically or otherwise? It's entertainment. If you want > living history and period authenticity there are better places to expect > it than the movies. JMO > > Denise > Iowa Yes, there are. However, there are films that do period costumes and settings correctly, and I enjoy those much more than those that pretend to do so and don't. I've been watching French costume films (Cyrano, Reine Margot) and by and large the costume are much better than American films. Maybe that's becauseFrench directors think the French audience is better informed about the times being portrayed. Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 22:54:31 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l452sV3s014704 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 22:54:31 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l452povw031908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 22:54:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l452pOjZ008158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 20:51:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l452pKUR057648; Fri, 4 May 2007 20:51:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l452pCgg057539 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 20:51:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED720CDEC2 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 21:50:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <463BF128.9060209@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 21:51:20 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: theatrical vs. historic costuming References: <005e01c78e7f$1bacf8e0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> In-Reply-To: <005e01c78e7f$1bacf8e0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7defa632-ca0c-40d8-9141-d96a006d0ff5 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 463BF146.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 22:54:20 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Sharon Collier wrote: > Ok, I'm curious. What paintings inspired the "B at T" hat? And I did like > most of the costumes,(they felt right, if that makes any sense), just the > female lead's stood out to me. > > I thought that white gauze hat thing was inspired by this painting: http://www.artsales.com/ARTprints/images/05lady_500.jpg At least, that's what came to mind when I caught a few minutes of the movie on cable the other night. Movie version: http://www.aboutrufus.com/Adhemar3.jpg Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 22:54:31 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l452sVqM014707 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 22:54:31 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l452rYh4032291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 22:54:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l451dvsl001706 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 19:39:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l451duh0020632; Fri, 4 May 2007 19:39:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp106.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp106.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [68.142.225.204]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l44Kh6B5024315 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 14:43:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: (qmail 72956 invoked from network); 4 May 2007 20:43:00 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=H9fSwKH5Wr3BnqjBAyhJPa2y9TBRWILdR6RP6QrG06gtEAxOwXukVcD9KyDdxKwOnYIKTbxzcHjf7+a4HrfoYbjUPlkX4nTBjkaeXSPqUGuS4kwZyt5oMy6XCDukEBQZ/OLgLhj/FoMZkhAY1RaRIy5RhGNkB9nih1aJu65iHhk= ; Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (nicolaa@rogers.com@99.247.22.228 with plain) by smtp106.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2007 20:43:00 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: J8yYwXIVM1n1OpaljxatGvKSsrltqfoiA2b24JMl2CcHhuAhowHXjLppJliaGEAbXQ-- Message-ID: <463B9AC2.9080408@rogers.com> Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 16:42:42 -0400 From: Susan Carroll-Clark User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: theatrical vs. historic costuming References: <200705041801.l44I0tLr082260@net.indra.com> <49901.205.156.36.14.1178302676.squirrel@webmail2.sca.org> In-Reply-To: <49901.205.156.36.14.1178302676.squirrel@webmail2.sca.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=14% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9992f7b3-12aa-4901-ad06-4af2320cef02 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 463BF1AE.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 22:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Greetings-- Lady Orla Carey wrote: > I'm willing to bet that the great example Sharon is talking about is that > "A Knight's Tale" doesn't pretend to be history. Several choices by the > director (like the music) make it very clear that it's a "fun" music so > the costumes weren't quite as annoying as they could have been. > Precisely why I was willing to cut "Shakespeare in Love" some slack and was less willing to do so for "Elizabeth", which was out the same year. The former didn't try to sell itself to schools as history, whether costume-wise or in general, and poked fun at itself on numerous occasions. I liked "Knight's Tale," too--for the added reason that in the midst of all the funky and fun costumes and in-jokes, there's a modicum of what the actual historical tourney circuit might have been like. Oddly enough, there's as much history hiding in there as some of the so-called "historical" films. It's the same reason I enjoyed "300" (well, and the buff guys didn't hurt, either). The clothes were more fantasy and the history mixed with fantasy--but it felt very much like an epic tale told around the campfire. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 4 22:54:32 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l452sVqO014707 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 22:54:32 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l452rYh6032291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 May 2007 22:54:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l451coXF001326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 4 May 2007 19:38:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l451coNo019725; Fri, 4 May 2007 19:38:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l44F1NG0008299 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 09:01:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.c70.1129c8f6 (52834) for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 11:01:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from WEBMAIL-RA14 (webmail-ra14.webmail.aol.com [152.163.181.154]) by cia-m02.mx.aol.com (v115.11) with ESMTP id MAILCIAM022-ce62463b4ab5b2; Fri, 04 May 2007 11:01:10 -0400 References: <200705040611.l446AteL041507@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 11:01:09 -0400 In-Reply-To: <200705040611.l446AteL041507@net.indra.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: tearoses@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 25698 Received: from 68.143.196.38 by WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com (152.163.181.154) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 04 May 2007 11:01:09 -0400 Message-Id: <8C95C742EE00F7F-774-FE5@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 152.163.181.154 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:16th-century short pants???? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: eb7bace2-52f7-4cde-8d4f-234bd8cf3c81 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 463BF1AE.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 04 May 2007 22:54:22 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Thanks, Mike. That makes sense, as both of these examples are Dutch, and you do see a lot of German styles there, especially on soldiers. Do you have any other pictures of this style? Or could you point me to a website that discusses it? Tea Rose, who is still amused by those knobbly knees. From: michael tartaglio Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th-century short pants???? Hi, All. The man (Uriah) in the painting is wearing typical "Landsknecht" style clothing. The full joined hose of the late 15th C. have become upper and nether hose. The upper will develop into breeches later on. You could make them for an overheated person, but to be correct, the uppers will be woolen with a linen lining, cut on the bias, and the lowers (nethers) just woolen. There exists a pair of linen hosen (full, joined) from somewhere in Germany or Holland, I can't remember offhand. I have seen the illos showing the strange "points" at the knees, some looking like the point is a lining or perhaps a long shirt, I'm not sure. On the one shown, the material is all blue, making it look like the hose or the lining (not a shirt, definitely). All this is, then, is the hose of the 15th C. separated at the knee into what becomes breeches and stockings. Cheers, Mike T. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 04:03:36 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4583ZYk022637 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 04:03:35 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45812O8017026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 04:03:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4580dOn032059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 02:00:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4580YY2096132; Sat, 5 May 2007 02:00:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4580UG4096061 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 02:00:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A7CC6B20554; Sat, 05 May 2007 07:52:44 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 01:00:18 -0700 Message-ID: <003d01c78eeb$6c6055e0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <259512.37483.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 81e818a6-aa3d-41fa-8ba7-c15721ff984b X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463C39BE.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 04:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO My friend saw those costumes in person some years back. They were mostly made of muslin and painted to look like velvets, etc. She said they were amazing! -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of MaggiRos Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 2:13 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic That's it exactly. I've concluded that since they're making up the "history" they might as well make up the costumes too. I've also stopped trying to watch it, and picked up a fresh DVD copy of Keith Michell's Six Wives of Henry VIII from the 70s. What a joy to watch. That show was on a limited budget, and yet everything looks (from camera distance) perfect! I feel much better now. MaggiRos ~who loves A Knight's Tale a whole lot --- Sharon Collier wrote: > I think what really bothers me is when some costumes > are authentic or at > least close and others are so far off as to be > "fantasy". The mens' costumes > in The Tudors look close, but the women's, with the > loose hair, bare > arms/shoulders, are further out. To me, they don't > match stylistically and > that jars. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 04:08:24 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4588LXg022954 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 04:08:21 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45886XE021250 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 04:08:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4587kMe032794 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 02:07:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4587j8B099661; Sat, 5 May 2007 02:07:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4587gPM099638 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 02:07:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A97A4B3045C; Sat, 05 May 2007 07:59:54 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 01:07:28 -0700 Message-ID: <003e01c78eec$6ccb5740$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <259512.37483.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1cdae759-8e6f-4551-a7fa-6da3b9dfdf4b X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 463C3B66.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 04:08:10 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO One of the neatest things I remember from 1968" "Romeo and Juliet" was when our teacher pointed out that there were colors for each family---Capulets were in warm tones and Montagues in cool tones. And after Juliet marries, she changes to the cool tones of the Montagues. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of MaggiRos Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 2:13 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic That's it exactly. I've concluded that since they're making up the "history" they might as well make up the costumes too. I've also stopped trying to watch it, and picked up a fresh DVD copy of Keith Michell's Six Wives of Henry VIII from the 70s. What a joy to watch. That show was on a limited budget, and yet everything looks (from camera distance) perfect! I feel much better now. MaggiRos ~who loves A Knight's Tale a whole lot --- Sharon Collier wrote: > I think what really bothers me is when some costumes > are authentic or at > least close and others are so far off as to be > "fantasy". The mens' costumes > in The Tudors look close, but the women's, with the > loose hair, bare > arms/shoulders, are further out. To me, they don't > match stylistically and > that jars. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 04:24:27 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l458OPLS024669 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 04:24:25 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l458OBN3026796 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 04:24:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l458L5wA033980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 02:21:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l458L4M0005636; Sat, 5 May 2007 02:21:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.23]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l458L0s9005584 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 02:21:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAIjbO0bUSnIMk2dsb2JhbACQCAEBAQEHCAYHBh0 Received: from [80.43.74.130] (port=4244 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-relay-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.66 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HkFVe-0000LD-CW for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 05 May 2007 09:20:54 +0100 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20070505090840.0373dd18@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 09:20:45 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: [h-cost] Theater vs. Historic now "6 wives" In-Reply-To: <003d01c78eeb$6c6055e0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> References: <259512.37483.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003d01c78eeb$6c6055e0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=48% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 3b057456-4b88-448e-9a4b-bdb08bfc36fa X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463C3F2B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 04:24:15 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO (snip) picked up a fresh DVD copy of Keith Michell's Six Wives of Henry VIII from the 70s. What a joy to watch. That show was on a limited budget, and yet everything looks (from camera distance) perfect! I feel much better now. (snip) >My friend saw those costumes in person some years back. They were mostly >made of muslin and painted to look like velvets, etc. She said they were >amazing! Much of the jewellery was made from bottle tops (usually from bottles of Coke) filled with resin, and chains from bathroom stores. Patterns on fabrics were made by spraying colour through lace on to cheap velvet and furnishing (drapery) fabrics. You can see original publicity photos of the BBC series on my website here. http://suziclarke4384.fotopic.net/c461806.html The "Wives" had most of their costumes made by Jean Hunnisett, who also made all of Glenda Jackson's costumes for "Elizabeth R". Incidentally, many of the techniques used in "The 6 Wives" had been pioneered, in England anyway, in the two main theatre companies, the RSC and the National. The RSC in particular, had a series of plays costumed in dyed fabrics, and sprayed with a mixture of latex and gold paint powder. This style of costuming began in the 60's with the complete Histories series of plays. (They did Richard ll to Richard lll in one season, 1964.) Somewhere I still have samples of some of the fabrics from when I worked there in 1967-9. Suzi (still nostalgic for the "old" RSC - it ain't the same these days!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 04:35:05 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l458YmLh027180 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 04:34:49 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l458YYKN003302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 04:34:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l458YFES034793 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 02:34:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l458YEbo011063; Sat, 5 May 2007 02:34:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l458YBrN011039 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 02:34:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id AFB2112304C2; Sat, 05 May 2007 08:26:26 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Theater vs. Historic now "6 wives" Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 01:34:00 -0700 Message-ID: <004101c78ef0$21654a50$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070505090840.0373dd18@suziclarke.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 6ccfe4d4-0633-4b34-85c5-58096da36c06 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463C419A.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 04:34:38 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I have got to buy that set. I loved the way Henry starts out as young and good looking and ages until he's fat and grotesque by the end of his life. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 1:21 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Theater vs. Historic now "6 wives" (snip) picked up a fresh DVD copy of Keith Michell's Six Wives of Henry VIII from the 70s. What a joy to watch. That show was on a limited budget, and yet everything looks (from camera distance) perfect! I feel much better now. (snip) >My friend saw those costumes in person some years back. They were mostly >made of muslin and painted to look like velvets, etc. She said they were >amazing! Much of the jewellery was made from bottle tops (usually from bottles of Coke) filled with resin, and chains from bathroom stores. Patterns on fabrics were made by spraying colour through lace on to cheap velvet and furnishing (drapery) fabrics. You can see original publicity photos of the BBC series on my website here. http://suziclarke4384.fotopic.net/c461806.html The "Wives" had most of their costumes made by Jean Hunnisett, who also made all of Glenda Jackson's costumes for "Elizabeth R". Incidentally, many of the techniques used in "The 6 Wives" had been pioneered, in England anyway, in the two main theatre companies, the RSC and the National. The RSC in particular, had a series of plays costumed in dyed fabrics, and sprayed with a mixture of latex and gold paint powder. This style of costuming began in the 60's with the complete Histories series of plays. (They did Richard ll to Richard lll in one season, 1964.) Somewhere I still have samples of some of the fabrics from when I worked there in 1967-9. Suzi (still nostalgic for the "old" RSC - it ain't the same these days!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 06:24:17 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45AOG3A016288 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 06:24:16 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45AO14s026049 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 06:24:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45ANPUH044311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 04:23:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45ANM5f068643; Sat, 5 May 2007 04:23:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45ANIGI068587 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 04:23:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.c43.12a4f1fb (42805) for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 06:23:05 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 06:23:03 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: theatrical vs. historic costuming To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5365 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 6452570b-ce6d-4069-8bee-0412f3551955 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 463C5B41.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 06:24:05 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/4/2007 9:40:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, nicolaa@rogers.com writes: It's the same reason I enjoyed "300" (well, and the buff guys didn't hurt, either). The clothes were more fantasy and the history mixed with fantasy--but it felt very much like an epic tale told around the campfire. I sent my husband off to see "300" by himself. As to the buff guys--he wondered why there weren't more women there! Ann Wass ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 06:28:56 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45AStov016750 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 06:28:55 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45ASfbU029566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 06:28:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45ASD3c044695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 04:28:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45ASDDd070758; Sat, 5 May 2007 04:28:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45AS9m1070693 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 04:28:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.cf0.ee0ef40 (42805) for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 06:27:56 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 06:27:56 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: theatrical vs. historic costuming To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5365 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 3c65e458-8a8b-4f08-b300-f9ea423f1fb3 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463C5C59.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 06:28:45 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/4/2007 9:39:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, landofoz@netins.net writes: Where, exactly, do people go "on and on" about the historical accuracy of costumes or content in cinematic movies? Often, there is hype in the pre-movie release publicity--probably gets written up more in the big city dailies and the "Entertainment" magazines and TV shows (I don't follow the latter--I do read one of the former.) Your particular local outlets may not be picking it up and, if like me, you don't follow the entertainment-type shows, you don't get it there. Oh, and I guess it used to be in the trailers, although that doesn't seem so common anymore--you know, "An Epic Film!!! Twenty years in the making!!!"--etc. Ann Wass ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 06:38:07 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45Ac6qX017673 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 06:38:06 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45AXMH4019453 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 06:37:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45AWr8P045423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 04:32:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45AWqgX072942; Sat, 5 May 2007 04:32:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45AWmAP072873 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 04:32:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.d26.850ef24 (42805) for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 06:32:38 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 06:32:36 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: theatrical vs. historic costuming To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5365 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 70d2c4c9-0fc6-4d11-8cc2-3db1c279fd61 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463C5D72.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 06:37:56 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/4/2007 8:24:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, costumeraz@qwest.net writes: I will, if I can figure out how, go to the archives and pull a list of movies that have been discussed here, but would welcome any title suggestions that you might care to make, be they good or particularly bad, in the costume aspect. Brother, will you open another can of worms. The 1940 "Pride and Prejudice." The designer, Adrian, evidently made a conscious decision not to costume in the Jane Austen period. It is highly exaggerated 1830s styles, instead. I have to admit, though, when I asked my costume history students, "what's wrong with this picture," they didn't get it! Let's see, high waist, columnar silhouette to natural waist, full skirts, huge sleeves--well, I must not have done my job very well. Ann Wass ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 14:21:36 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45ILaSh020496 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 14:21:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45IILVK016678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 14:21:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45IHfho045428 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 12:17:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45IHfMg028057; Sat, 5 May 2007 12:17:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from avas6.coqui.net (avas6.coqui.net [196.28.61.139]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45IGql7027586 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 12:16:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hagiosfenum@prtc.net) Received: from unknown (HELO MAQUINA) ([65.23.239.20]) by avas6.coqui.net with ESMTP; 05 May 2007 14:17:02 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAPlmPEZBF+8U/2dsb2JhbAA X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,497,1170648000"; d="scan'208"; a="1007137384:sNHT19472411" From: "HAGIOS FENUM" To: , Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 14:16:38 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 thread-index: AcePP0EGNRWdNdUxQ6OAnUPiiz/UxQAAhSJA In-Reply-To: <200705051800.l45I06FN017611@net.indra.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=68% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Buff Leather X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 3178ce7f-a16d-47ad-a5ab-ae0d00ab45ab X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463CCA6D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 14:21:26 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Do anyone knows where to get Buff leather for belts? Thank you all. Jose -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of h-costume-request@indra.com Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 2:00 PM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: h-costume Digest, Vol 6, Issue 216 Send h-costume mailing list submissions to h-costume@mail.indra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to h-costume-request@mail.indra.com You can reach the person managing the list at h-costume-owner@mail.indra.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of h-costume digest..." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 14:24:46 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45IOjjM020596 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 14:24:45 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45IOVBn015079 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 14:24:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45IH2Mt045296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 12:17:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45IGtlS027668; Sat, 5 May 2007 12:16:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from avas6.coqui.net (avas6.coqui.net [196.28.61.139]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45IGqXt027587 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 12:16:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hagiosfenum@prtc.net) Received: from unknown (HELO MAQUINA) ([65.23.239.20]) by avas6.coqui.net with ESMTP; 05 May 2007 14:17:02 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAPlmPEZBF+8U/2dsb2JhbAA X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,497,1170648000"; d="scan'208"; a="1007137384:sNHT19472411" From: "HAGIOS FENUM" To: , Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 14:16:38 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 thread-index: AcePP0EGNRWdNdUxQ6OAnUPiiz/UxQAAhSJA In-Reply-To: <200705051800.l45I06FN017611@net.indra.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=68% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Buff Leather X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: aff17712-2c2c-4a33-b6e7-b8dac2983e9d X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 463CCBDF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 14:24:35 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Do anyone knows where to get Buff leather for belts? Thank you all. Jose -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of h-costume-request@indra.com Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 2:00 PM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: h-costume Digest, Vol 6, Issue 216 Send h-costume mailing list submissions to h-costume@mail.indra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to h-costume-request@mail.indra.com You can reach the person managing the list at h-costume-owner@mail.indra.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of h-costume digest..." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 14:49:46 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45Ink68021411 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 14:49:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45In2nh011548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 14:49:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45ImXAC050749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 12:48:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45ImTsv043967; Sat, 5 May 2007 12:48:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s30.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s30.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.102]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45ImQkt043887 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 12:48:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.13]) by bay0-omc1-s30.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sat, 5 May 2007 11:48:21 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 5 May 2007 11:48:21 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 70.56.178.22 by BAY133-DAV3.phx.gbl with DAV; Sat, 05 May 2007 18:48:16 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.56.178.22] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "h-costume" Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 11:48:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 5 May 2007 11:48:23 -0700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 May 2007 18:48:21.0032 (UTC) FILETIME=[F3DEAA80:01C78F45] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Metrosexual???? OT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7902aece-3d27-44b9-9783-e76c18b88b78 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463CD19E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 14:49:36 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Okay, this may be a little off topic, but since I heard it on the Tudor = Fashion special (TFS) on showtime, maybe it isn't too bad. I heard the = word Metrosexual (MS) for the first time in my life earlier this week in = reference to what I can't remember, then I heard it yesterday for the = second time on the TFS, and just now on NPR on "Wait Wait Don't Tell = Me." NPR's discussion implies that it is another word for homosexual, = the TFS refered to Henry VIII as a MS....what the heck is everyone = talking about??? Someone who copulates with everything they can get = their hands on?? Dumb in Buckwheat, AZ Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 15:10:43 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45JAg5w022066 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 15:10:42 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45JASM2028195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 15:10:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45J9wE6054699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 13:09:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45J9vpK055504; Sat, 5 May 2007 13:09:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc14.comcast.net (sccrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.200.84]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45J9rPe055437 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 13:09:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-24-61-47-3.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.61.47.3]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <200705051909480140022o23e>; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:09:48 +0000 In-Reply-To: <048301c78de4$c876b070$0200a8c0@boris> References: <002301c78de3$484c48c0$6bbfa6d8@pavilion> <048301c78de4$c876b070$0200a8c0@boris> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) X-Priority: 3 Message-Id: From: Lauren Walker Subject: Re: [h-cost]Authentic fabric widths (was: Theater vs Historic) Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 15:09:25 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7229d100-e606-48f8-970c-a604c82a7dc6 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463CD6A4.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 15:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In my re-enactor clothes, I usually cut the fabrics down to 22" widths so I'm forced to piece them accurately. I also plan to do more with my loom that weaves 22" for these purposes. One thing I find is that seaming 22" wide fabrics sometimes lends more structural strength or other serendipitous advantages, and invariably teaches me something about why the garments were made the way they were, which usually has something to do with using the grain or bias or selvage of the fabric. The most fun was a short circle cloak, because the narrow pieces (two quarter-circles for the front and a half-circle for the back, 22" radius) meant putting seams down each side, which helped it hang properly at the shoulders, and also gave me lovely selvages for both sides of the front opening. When I am overweight (as now) I cheat for shifts and cut a little wider width (about 24") that will give me enough room round the middle while still cutting front and back as one piece (gussets take care of the hips but I like a little ease through the chest that the underarm gussets don't always accommodate.) This on the theory that my fatness is itself a modernism, and in period I would doubtless me at least four inches less around! Lauren Lauren M. Walker lauren.walker@comcast.net On May 3, 2007, at 8:40 PM, Carmen Beaudry wrote: >> Frankly, I thinking working with fabrics in authentic widths would >> be a >> blast. But then, I'm here more for the historical/reenactment end of >> things. And if I ever win the lottery (not that I play, mind you, >> but....), >> then porsches be darned, I'm getting some of those exquisite silk >> velvets >> that cost, what was it, 1500? 1600? euro/meter? >> --Sue > > I'm with you there....and then I want to just roll around on it for > a while. > > Melusine > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 15:24:49 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45JOnU3022713 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 15:24:49 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45JOYhv031482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 15:24:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45JM8jh055613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 13:22:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45JM5gg061960; Sat, 5 May 2007 13:22:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alnrmhc14.comcast.net (alnrmhc14.comcast.net [206.18.177.54]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45JM2FJ061874 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 13:22:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from attrembl@bovil.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (c-71-198-114-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net[71.198.114.173]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc14) with ESMTP id <20070505192156b14008789qe>; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:21:56 +0000 Message-ID: <463CD951.6030905@bovil.com> Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 12:21:53 -0700 From: Andrew Trembley User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metrosexual???? OT References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: bfbc966f-9215-4fe5-9602-41a75e7dc17c X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463CD9F2.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 15:24:38 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Saragrace Knauf wrote: > Okay, this may be a little off topic, but since I heard it on the Tudor Fashion special (TFS) on showtime, maybe it isn't too bad. I heard the word Metrosexual (MS) for the first time in my life earlier this week in reference to what I can't remember, then I heard it yesterday for the second time on the TFS, and just now on NPR on "Wait Wait Don't Tell Me." NPR's discussion implies that it is another word for homosexual, the TFS refered to Henry VIII as a MS....what the heck is everyone talking about??? Someone who copulates with everything they can get their hands on?? > "Metrosexual" refers to a heterosexual guy who is a fashion whore. andy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 15:31:52 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45JVqL7022905 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 15:31:52 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45JSFSf026282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 15:31:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45JRe0H056216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 13:27:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45JRdap065041; Sat, 5 May 2007 13:27:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s32.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s32.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.104]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45JRYcx064936 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 13:27:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from laswa@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.133.89]) by bay0-omc1-s32.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sat, 5 May 2007 12:27:29 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 5 May 2007 12:27:29 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.55.133.123 by by128fd.bay128.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 05 May 2007 19:27:27 GMT X-Originating-IP: [75.51.3.238] X-Originating-Email: [laswa@hotmail.com] X-Sender: laswa@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: From: "zelda crusher" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Metrosexual???? OT Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 12:27:27 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 May 2007 19:27:29.0384 (UTC) FILETIME=[6B98BE80:01C78F4B] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8769e347-6bdf-40f4-853c-7585fe523e0f X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 463CDACF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 15:31:41 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO My reaction was similar to yours. I still don't really get why Henry Viii fits, but... The definition I got is a man who has such particular tastes in clothing, accessories, hair and personal hygiene that many will think he is gay because of said interest., however metrosexuals are GRAS (generally regarded as straight) or perhaps bisexual. I would've said a Beau Brummel, except for the fact that dandies (despite what we think of them today) were a movement AWAY from Foppism TOWARDS more mnaly fashions. Go figure. Laurie >From: "Saragrace Knauf" >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: "h-costume" >Subject: [h-cost] Metrosexual???? OT >Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 11:48:23 -0700 > >Okay, this may be a little off topic, but since I heard it on the Tudor >Fashion special (TFS) on showtime, maybe it isn't too bad. I heard the >word Metrosexual (MS) for the first time in my life earlier this week in >reference to what I can't remember, then I heard it yesterday for the >second time on the TFS, and just now on NPR on "Wait Wait Don't Tell Me." >NPR's discussion implies that it is another word for homosexual, the TFS >refered to Henry VIII as a MS....what the heck is everyone talking about??? > Someone who copulates with everything they can get their hands on?? > >Dumb in Buckwheat, AZ > >Sg > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 15:44:57 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45Jiv6n023276 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 15:44:57 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45JdhXb031987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 15:44:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45JdAhm057178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 13:39:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45Jd8M5071103; Sat, 5 May 2007 13:39:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s16.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s16.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.88]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45Jd5NL071011 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 13:39:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.16]) by bay0-omc1-s16.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sat, 5 May 2007 12:39:00 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 5 May 2007 12:39:00 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 70.56.178.22 by BAY133-DAV6.phx.gbl with DAV; Sat, 05 May 2007 19:38:54 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.56.178.22] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "Historical Costume" References: <463CD951.6030905@bovil.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metrosexual???? OT Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 12:39:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 5 May 2007 12:39:01 -0700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 May 2007 19:39:00.0049 (UTC) FILETIME=[0743DC10:01C78F4D] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 59a5193c-c0a2-4c82-b6a6-ffb3a43f69e8 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463CDD7F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 15:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Whew! So it really is on topic! ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andrew Trembley=20 To: Historical Costume=20 Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metrosexual???? OT Saragrace Knauf wrote: > Okay, this may be a little off topic, but since I heard it on the = Tudor Fashion special (TFS) on showtime, maybe it isn't too bad. I = heard the word Metrosexual (MS) for the first time in my life earlier = this week in reference to what I can't remember, then I heard it = yesterday for the second time on the TFS, and just now on NPR on "Wait = Wait Don't Tell Me." NPR's discussion implies that it is another word = for homosexual, the TFS refered to Henry VIII as a MS....what the heck = is everyone talking about??? Someone who copulates with everything they = can get their hands on?? > =20 "Metrosexual" refers to a heterosexual guy who is a fashion whore. andy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com = http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 15:45:58 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45JjvUb023304 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 15:45:57 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45JgHJs009282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 15:45:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45Jfd8M057429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 13:41:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45JfcVu072413; Sat, 5 May 2007 13:41:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45JfYUt072388 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 13:41:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [69.72.26.250] (core-dc-1-250.dynamic-dialup.coretel.net [69.72.26.250]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id l45JfS35003857 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 15:41:32 -0400 In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v733) X-Priority: 3 Message-Id: <9C7ED2F4-1544-4762-9FD8-5DBD99B252F2@patriot.net> From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metrosexual???? OT Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 15:41:27 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.733) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=20% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 298d09b9-2a15-407a-ad5b-977535eff652 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463CDE19.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 15:45:47 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Right, as others have said, it's not about sexual activity, =20 it's about grooming. My personal line of definition =97 hair =20 gel. :-) It can be as simple as that, and also guys who get =20 manicures, facials and have their eyebrows pruned & shaped. -Carol On May 5, 2007, at 2:48 PM, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > Okay, this may be a little off topic, but since I heard it on the =20 > Tudor Fashion special (TFS) on showtime, maybe it isn't too bad. I =20= > heard the word Metrosexual (MS) for the first time in my life =20 > earlier this week in reference to what I can't remember, then I =20 > heard it yesterday for the second time on the TFS, and just now on =20 > NPR on "Wait Wait Don't Tell Me." NPR's discussion implies that it =20= > is another word for homosexual, the TFS refered to Henry VIII as a =20 > MS....what the heck is everyone talking about??? Someone who =20 > copulates with everything they can get their hands on?? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 16:28:04 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45KS4qF024582 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 16:28:04 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45KPNcW007876 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 16:27:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45KOkJW061172 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 14:24:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45KOeg6095123; Sat, 5 May 2007 14:24:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45KOaP9095081 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 14:24:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.161] (pm5-161.eos.net [205.133.149.161]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l45KOu7J012871 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 16:24:57 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 16:05:33 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200705051800.l45I0824017649@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: breakfast at tiffany's costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1bd559f8-e185-4c26-a5f1-13bab4c7ad97 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 463CE833.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 16:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO No, that's not what I'm thinking of, although it is a similar but less exaggerated style. This is much more like it: http://employees.oneonta.edu/farberas/arth/arth214_folder/mary_of_burgundy.h tml I hope that comes through all right. Shorten the hennin and starch the lower veil until it's a stiff cone, and you've got the hat right there. And the collar of her dress also inspires the front of the actress's gown. This isn't the painting I was referring to but it's the first one I could find online that has the same elements. In the one I'm thinking of the gown itself is either dark blue or black. I just love that dress, it is such a fun adaptation. The reason the original poster called it the "Breakfast at Tiffany's" dress is that it makes the actress, Suzanna Zossiman (??something like that??) look like Audrey Hepburn. Sort of an Audrey Hepburn movie costume inspired by by a fifteenth-century gown and worn in a 1990s movie!!! Or was that 2000 already? Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 16:45:46 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45Kjk4F025304 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 16:45:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45KjW9f015328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 16:45:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45JS3jM056258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 13:28:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45JS3a7065237; Sat, 5 May 2007 13:28:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep35.mail.dk (fep35.mail.dk [80.160.76.199]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45JRxm6065198 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 13:28:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep42.mail.dk ([195.41.46.225]) by fep35.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070505192758.JZDX2479.fep35.mail.dk@fep42.mail.dk> for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 21:27:58 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.149]) by fep42.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070505192758.ZZVK1153.fep42.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 21:27:58 +0200 Message-ID: <000901c78f4b$9926bb40$9543a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metrosexual???? OT Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 21:28:42 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep42.mail.dk from [80.161.67.149] at Sat, 5 May 2007 21:27:53 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=20% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 19a255f1-48a7-4328-b19d-2821ebfa3b02 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463CECEC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 16:45:35 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi Saragrace, This is a new word, but its ben used here in Denmark a coupple of years. It dont refer to a homosexual man, but to the up to date fashionable gentleman, who trims and shaves, and wears the casual everyday fashionable outfits. He maybe works at the office, or he could also be a postman. Thats a metro sexual man. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "h-costume" Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 8:48 PM Subject: [h-cost] Metrosexual???? OT Okay, this may be a little off topic, but since I heard it on the Tudor Fashion special (TFS) on showtime, maybe it isn't too bad. I heard the word Metrosexual (MS) for the first time in my life earlier this week in reference to what I can't remember, then I heard it yesterday for the second time on the TFS, and just now on NPR on "Wait Wait Don't Tell Me." NPR's discussion implies that it is another word for homosexual, the TFS refered to Henry VIII as a MS....what the heck is everyone talking about??? Someone who copulates with everything they can get their hands on?? Dumb in Buckwheat, AZ Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 17:10:16 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45LAGCu026220 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:10:16 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45L5eC4018403 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 17:10:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45L5GwT064366 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 15:05:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45L5FNt015387; Sat, 5 May 2007 15:05:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l45L5C8C015270 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 15:05:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABDD36MVANUYKLS for (sender ); Sat, 5 May 2007 14:04:51 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgtw1rknJ1N4yvC0hFsBoUTI= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id MLZPZHCY; Sat, 05 May 2007 14:04:44 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 14:00:46 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metrosexual???? OT Message-ID: <20070505.140411.3892.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,5-8,10-30 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 10:5:911365014 X-MAIL-INFO: 496f670367028f0e028f431f8f43b79e6a5f8ea7a3ee5fe71e83a3b3e7cffe0fe77f0a576f9f6f474e43238f6f1f X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 96387184-3ee1-425f-bdb0-39f67187d5b1 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463CF1A4.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 17:10:06 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO As far as I can tell, the word means something along the line of being a sophisticated clothes horse. Sexual preference has nothing to do with it. May I express personal annoyance that people are using this term for historic figures? Just like Hildegard of Bingen was a "liberated" women--yeah, right. :/ Arlys On Sat, 5 May 2007 11:48:23 -0700 "Saragrace Knauf" writes: > Okay, this may be a little off topic, but since I heard it on the > Tudor Fashion special (TFS) on showtime, maybe it isn't too bad. I > heard the word Metrosexual (MS) for the first time in my life > earlier this week in reference to what I can't remember, then I > heard it yesterday for the second time on the TFS, and just now on > NPR on "Wait Wait Don't Tell Me." NPR's discussion implies that it > is another word for homosexual, the TFS refered to Henry VIII as a > MS....what the heck is everyone talking about??? Someone who > copulates with everything they can get their hands on?? > > Dumb in Buckwheat, AZ > > Sg > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 18:48:37 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45Mma5R029515 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 18:48:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45MjJBj010599 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 18:48:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45Mi4DW073235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 16:44:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45MhqMW063706; Sat, 5 May 2007 16:43:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45Mhmvg063650 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 16:43:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.c26.1425d530 (30737) for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 18:43:37 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 18:43:35 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metrosexual???? OT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5365 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: fac2ce5d-5ac8-4606-9973-5461e6373196 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463D08FF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 18:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/5/2007 2:49:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wickedfrau@msn.com writes: I heard the word Metrosexual (MS) for the first time in my life earlier this week in reference to what I can't remember, then I heard it yesterday for the second time on the TFS, and just now on NPR on "Wait Wait Don't Tell Me." Jeez, that expression is so last year, or is it two years ago? No, not gay, as others have already said. But really into grooming--professional manicures, facials, and such, and clothes, too, I suppose, although exactly what THE fashion look was, I'm not clear on--not sure there was ONE look, clothes-wise. Fastidious, though, for sure. I think maybe I would consider Henry VIII a little too lusty to qualify. While metrosexuals weren't gay, I also don't think they were into, you know, whatever, whenever. Ann Wass ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 18:48:38 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45Mmb9b029518 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 18:48:37 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45MkLgY004194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 18:48:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45MjuwJ073386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 16:45:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45MjuSO064705; Sat, 5 May 2007 16:45:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45MjqjZ064644 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 16:45:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.c57.1326612b (30737) for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 18:45:41 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 18:45:39 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metrosexual???? OT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5365 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 00e02abb-ace0-4648-bf22-b290eb03bd4b X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463D093D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 18:48:27 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/5/2007 3:28:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, laswa@hotmail.com writes: I would've said a Beau Brummel, except for the fact that dandies (despite what we think of them today) were a movement AWAY from Foppism TOWARDS more mnaly fashions. Go figure. Except that the Beau placed great importance on good grooming, cleanliness, shaving, etc., and impeccable tailoring and fit. He also didn't seem particularly interested in women, but wasn't overtly gay. He probably is a pretty good comparison. Metrosexuals weren't really effeminate. Ann Wass ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 19:16:40 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NGeua030361 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:16:40 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45NC9LG018363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 19:16:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45NBiS2076212 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 17:11:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NBhun077321; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:11:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NBcqP077274 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:11:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05299 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 18:11:52 -0500 Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 18:11:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f4ad6824-c8c5-4bec-8d2c-b98d841253cf X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463D0F49.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 19:16:29 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I am not an embroiderer, and my knowledge of medeival embroidery is skeletal -- enough to recognize situations in which it occurs, and to know when to go to others with a question. This is one of those times. I'm talking with another researcher who's working with a text reference to embroidery. One possible interpretation of the reference would be that it describes embroidery that appears on both the inside and outside of the fabric. To me, that sounds like something on the line of blackwork, designed to be neat and finished looking on both the right and "wrong" side, and thus suited to things like cuff and collar edges that might be turned out. So, questions: 1. Is my memory correct -- is this indeed a characteristic of blackwork? Or any other kind of historic embroidery style? 2. Is this characteristic actually documentable to any non-modern examples? (I know it's easy to assume that a standard definition of a technique must date back forever, but it might be done differently in different periods.) If so, how early? I mentally associate blackwork in particular with the Tudor period, but the reference in this case is about 1400. 3. Can anyone point me to a published source that would document the use of such a "two right sides" technique to a medieval artifact? Ultimately my friend would like to have a citation that shows the use of such inside/outside embroidery from around 1400. Doesn't have to be blackwork. Failing that, it would be helpful to have a citation of such a technique from a later period, even if it's not c. 1400. Many, many thanks, as always, to the wonderfully helpful people on this list. I am always amazed by the breadth of knowledge represented here. --Robin ========================================================== Robin Netherton Editor, Medieval Clothing and Textiles robin@nightowl.net voice: (314) 439-1222 // fax: (314) 439-1666 Life is just a bowl of queries. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 19:16:41 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NGfGW030367 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:16:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45NELvL018014 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 19:16:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45NE5fR076362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 17:14:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NE48b078448; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:14:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mail.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NE1FE078367 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:14:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.c27.15e11a5d (32913) for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:13:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 19:13:51 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metrosexual???? OT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c886cad3-a147-42c2-b813-9d35acc18093 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463D0FCD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 19:16:30 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO WEll I say I first saw - that's where I saw the whole idea as a 'new' thing - then thought abpout it & realised I'd known people like that for years! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 19:18:43 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NIgaI030436 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:18:42 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45NISME022191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 19:18:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45NIAiL076673 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 17:18:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NI8Ut080363; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:18:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s5.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s5.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.205]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NI4rb080281 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:18:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.11]) by bay0-omc3-s5.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sat, 5 May 2007 16:17:58 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 5 May 2007 16:17:58 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 70.56.178.22 by BAY133-DAV1.phx.gbl with DAV; Sat, 05 May 2007 23:17:56 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.56.178.22] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "WickedFrau" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 16:17:15 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c78f6b$8482b660$0501a8c0@Laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 thread-index: AcePas9Ew43G5tvDQVOqi+gpHs9TMgAAHaAg In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 May 2007 23:17:58.0899 (UTC) FILETIME=[9EA14430:01C78F6B] X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8aaedbde-e65d-4945-907f-4c0b04571c17 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463D10C4.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 19:18:32 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I can't help you but I will be interested in what you find. My friend who is quite good at embroidery always makes fun of mine because it looks horrible on the back (okay, it doesn't always look great on the front side either.) She claims it should look almost as good on the back as one the front...she learned from her Welsh grandma. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 19:29:23 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NTNk4030756 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:29:23 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45NO9Xt020589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 19:29:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45NKfAP076974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 17:20:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NKeYc081683; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:20:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s3.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s3.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.139]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NKaY2081624 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:20:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.17]) by bay0-omc2-s3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sat, 5 May 2007 16:20:31 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 5 May 2007 16:20:31 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 70.56.178.22 by BAY133-DAV7.phx.gbl with DAV; Sat, 05 May 2007 23:20:28 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.56.178.22] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "WickedFrau" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost]Authentic fabric widths Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 16:19:47 -0700 Message-ID: <000101c78f6b$df6d1890$0501a8c0@Laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 thread-index: AcePSQ0wVUZlu7p3Q3G3ErK4a73cUQAIpGIg In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 May 2007 23:20:31.0330 (UTC) FILETIME=[F97C6420:01C78F6B] X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f9726c60-6320-477d-980a-f2a1172e95b2 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463D1219.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 19:29:12 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I'll go look, but as I recall there were various widths available during these times. I know for sure that an ell was different lengths in different places at different times. Some widths were surprisingly wide...like 60 inches. I'll get back to you. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 19:29:45 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NTj2u030776 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:29:45 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45NOVMi025504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 19:29:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45NOBqT077272 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 17:24:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NOA2l083374; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:24:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpout.eastlink.ca (smtpout.eastlink.ca [24.222.0.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45ItnAq047889 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 12:55:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sjpaterson@tru.eastlink.ca) Received: from ip04.eastlink.ca ([24.222.10.20]) by mta02.eastlink.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JHL00ALW0KV5FW0@mta02.eastlink.ca> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 05 May 2007 15:55:43 -0300 (ADT) Received: from blk-138-38-58.eastlink.ca (HELO THIRDFLOOR) ([24.138.38.58]) by ip04.eastlink.ca with SMTP; Sat, 05 May 2007 15:31:12 -0300 Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 15:55:49 -0300 From: SPaterson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metrosexual???? OT To: Historical Costume Message-id: <000801c78f46$ff55e350$6501a8c0@THIRDFLOOR> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAOBvPEYYiiY6/2dsb2JhbACIKA X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,497,1170648000"; d="scan'208"; a="208187805:sNHT26262882" X-PCToolsMIME: Updated by PC Tools Mime Parser 1.0.0.4 References: X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=14% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ff877199-0c60-4503-9d0c-6db17f314a37 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463D122F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 19:29:35 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrosexual this is what I found... Sarah Paterson ----- Original Message ----- Okay, this may be a little off topic, but since I heard it on the Tudor Fashion special (TFS) on showtime, maybe it isn't too bad. I heard the word Metrosexual (MS) for the first time in my life earlier this week in reference to what I can't remember, then I heard it yesterday for the second time on the TFS, and just now on NPR on "Wait Wait Don't Tell Me." NPR's discussion implies that it is another word for homosexual, the TFS refered to Henry VIII as a MS....what the heck is everyone talking about??? Someone who copulates with everything they can get their hands on?? Dumb in Buckwheat, AZ Sg E-mail message checked by PC Tools Spyware Doctor (5.0.0.184) Database version: 5.07230 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 19:29:51 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NTpvX030779 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:29:51 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45NOa44008317 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 19:29:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45NOJ0K077299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 17:24:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NOJO6083456; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:24:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp108.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp108.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [68.142.225.206]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l45JT6gf065797 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 13:29:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: (qmail 24032 invoked from network); 5 May 2007 19:29:01 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=qmxIXS3WOUCMpcczYoGNWZYvkKDA4YcPRlJjZEEQC2b4MpZPwEwfurpZeJQ4YbMIcyVu4ej6ejwv7pjsTARw4/1ChpAVurTaEJrD0QaTh1dnR16H1dRjHM0a/sjKCUHRCanB/ejDd07FuCK01s/fmN7B9Oju9Q9stPMEuucjfd4= ; Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (nicolaa@rogers.com@99.247.22.228 with plain) by smtp108.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 May 2007 19:29:01 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: OzDl7NMVM1n6Knxg17N7hQRKujXudwMqRSQgOkqFJRiL5OfCGpaPX.zpCrALjPUjCQ-- Message-ID: <463CDAE7.3000808@rogers.com> Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 15:28:39 -0400 From: Susan Carroll-Clark User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metrosexual???? 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X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 19:29:40 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Greetings-- Saragrace Knauf wrote: > Okay, this may be a little off topic, but since I heard it on the Tudor Fashion special (TFS) on showtime, maybe it isn't too bad. I heard the word Metrosexual (MS) for the first time in my life earlier this week in reference to what I can't remember, then I heard it yesterday for the second time on the TFS, and just now on NPR on "Wait Wait Don't Tell Me." NPR's discussion implies that it is another word for homosexual, the TFS refered to Henry VIII as a MS....what the heck is everyone talking about??? Someone who copulates with everything they can get their hands on?? It's usually used to refer to a straight guy with an urban fashion sensibility, the kind that's usually associated with gay guys. Metrosexuals care about fashion, style, colour, skin care, and don't think it's unmanly to go to a spa. Henry VIII would only be a metrosexual from a modern standpoint. In 16th century England, the upper-class men were as much or more into fashion as their female counterparts, and this was not considered strange or unmanly. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 19:30:41 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NUfQ8030819 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:30:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45NQ40g008591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 19:30:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45NPhDE077512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 17:25:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NPhuN084241; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:25:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45Ml3UX065211 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 16:47:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.cb2.10705a1d (30737) for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 18:46:49 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 18:46:47 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metrosexual???? OT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5365 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7115ee40-bafa-4405-95b2-c788f8c2cded X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 463D128C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 19:30:30 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/5/2007 5:05:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cley@juno.com writes: May I express personal annoyance that people are using this term for historic figures? Now there, I agree. "Metrosexuals," if they really exist, are very much creatures of their time and place. Ann Wass ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 19:30:41 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NUfUe030822 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:30:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45NQK0F026247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 19:30:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45NPpee077544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 17:25:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NPpmT084364; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:25:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NCvS7077867 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:12:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.d3b.879d905 (32913) for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:12:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 19:12:45 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metrosexual???? OT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f1100ffe-b7db-4bf0-8252-093cc240c369 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463D129C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 19:30:31 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 05/05/2007 23:45:32 GMT Standard Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: I heard the word Metrosexual (MS) for the first time in my life earlier this week in reference to what I can't remember, then I heard it yesterday for the second time on the TFS, and just now on NPR on "Wait Wait Don't Tell Me." The gay straight man - as I first saw in sex & the city. I.e., a heterosexual man who acts like the *stereotypical* homosexual man - as said, who understands fashion, and cosmetics, and is generally not the old traditional (and *stereotypical*) straight man. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 19:36:42 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NagD2030996 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:36:42 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45NaSXM031743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 19:36:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45Na1xi078460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 17:36:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45Na0LL089275; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:36:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32712.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32712.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.25]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l45NZw9V089225 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:35:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 98432 invoked by uid 60001); 5 May 2007 23:35:53 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=wgZMwdZqfq5VyWoIkPZM+fVhyMfyzF067ek8X4Lgb9R+3umcIWynFNlueV8ha93iUg75xvVZ6OxqkhHhcrJBaEysrXWdopxEiDnE0EpRuKVVi29gpN9zq08YlLyHB6mGKrLZpILd0WeXNha0CaBO52RXXlBLyAtESUwSPg+qUM8=; X-YMail-OSG: r2D0UZoVM1npHQLPMXDabb8DnNuLe0JtDOp96.RIJfDQeUWFreJLrNEFupXK_7JSk_LY0d5SIQ-- Received: from [76.173.40.71] by web32712.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 05 May 2007 16:35:52 PDT Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 16:35:52 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: RE: [h-cost]Authentic fabric widths To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <973105.95888.qm@web32712.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8ba9edbb-15a3-419c-9c07-1af5cccac3d8 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463D14FC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 19:36:31 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO There's some information in the back of the Elizabethan Patterns of Fashion (Janet Arnold) MaggiRos --- WickedFrau wrote: > I'll go look, but as I recall there were various > widths available during > these times. I know for sure that an ell was > different lengths in different > places at different times. Some widths were > surprisingly wide...like 60 > inches. I'll get back to you. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 19:44:43 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NihmE031184 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:44:43 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45NeAHl014682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 19:44:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45NdfbK078807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 17:39:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NdeGx090926; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:39:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s39.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s39.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.239]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NdbgY090865 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:39:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.24]) by bay0-omc3-s39.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sat, 5 May 2007 16:39:31 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 5 May 2007 16:39:31 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 70.56.178.22 by BAY133-DAV14.phx.gbl with DAV; Sat, 05 May 2007 23:39:27 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.56.178.22] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "WickedFrau" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Buff Leather Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 16:38:46 -0700 Message-ID: <000201c78f6e$868bec80$0501a8c0@Laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 thread-index: AcePP0EGNRWdNdUxQ6OAnUPiiz/UxQAAhSJAAAqlh7A= In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 May 2007 23:39:31.0671 (UTC) FILETIME=[A12E9E70:01C78F6E] X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 79069aa7-badb-4b64-97a8-96165e878d6e X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463D15DA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 19:44:32 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Found this... http://www.siegelofca.com/view_verlane.asp?id=144 -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of HAGIOS FENUM Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:17 AM To: h-costume@indra.com; h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Buff Leather Do anyone knows where to get Buff leather for belts? Thank you all. Jose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 19:44:45 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NijIL031190 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:44:45 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45Nhs6N012013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 19:44:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45NgcVU079035 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 17:42:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NgbQQ092387; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:42:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NgX5n092305 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:42:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HkTtX-0006FH-QX; Sat, 05 May 2007 18:42:31 -0500 Received: from 65.13.105.239 ([65.13.105.239]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sat, 05 May 2007 19:42:31 -0400 Message-ID: <20070505194231.yywn4mrq8ktcc48g@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 19:42:31 -0400 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/horde/imp/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/horde/imp X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: cdbdd335-9f06-46ef-9b3f-29a5c7675d3a X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 463D16BA.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 19:44:35 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Quoting Robin Netherton : > This is one of those times. I'm talking with another researcher who's > working with a text reference to embroidery. One possible interpretation > of the reference would be that it describes embroidery that appears on > both the inside and outside of the fabric. To me, that sounds like > something on the line of blackwork, designed to be neat and finished > looking on both the right and "wrong" side, and thus suited to things like > cuff and collar edges that might be turned out. > > So, questions: > > 1. Is my memory correct -- is this indeed a characteristic of blackwork? > Or any other kind of historic embroidery style? Blackwork can be reversible -- but it doesn't have to be. > > 2. Is this characteristic actually documentable to any non-modern > examples? (I know it's easy to assume that a standard definition of a > technique must date back forever, but it might be done differently in > different periods.) If so, how early? I mentally associate blackwork in > particular with the Tudor period, but the reference in this case is about > 1400. To my knowledge -- and blackwork isn't my "thing" -- blackwork is =20 later than 1400. There are more knowledgeable folks on this list than =20 I in that respect. susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 19:47:31 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NlVIs031262 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:47:31 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45NlHhM024672 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 19:47:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45Nkpg3079403 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 17:46:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NknPx094278; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:46:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.64]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45Nkk5H094205 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:46:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=n3NjCbvpBV7w9xA8rNSf8nOUc7RnrEAHxTsKae1N4sGybBBRa/tcw06RznBLvRX/; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.100.124.1] (helo=boris) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HkTxZ-0002E4-EI for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 05 May 2007 19:46:41 -0400 Message-ID: <009e01c78f70$65b21ff0$0200a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20070505194231.yywn4mrq8ktcc48g@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 16:52:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd48965673207b0dddcdc0ffbb790a0e435c93caf27dac41a8fd350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.100.124.1 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 3d2c1db9-49a8-4379-a4a9-ecb85b531f75 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463D1785.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 19:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO To my knowledge -- and blackwork isn't my "thing" -- blackwork is later than 1400. There are more knowledgeable folks on this list than I in that respect. susan There is a form called Assisi work, uses the same stitches as blackwork, but was often worked in red, and I believe there's extant examples of that from the 12th cen. (1100's). I'll see what I can dig up. Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 19:58:47 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NwkGG031603 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:58:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45NroY3021185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 19:58:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45Nr9dO079998 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 17:53:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45Nr8nr097369; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:53:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mf4f.socket.net [216.106.88.199]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45Nr50M097346 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:53:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2A78C375B1 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 18:53:05 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 18:53:17 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1bae0b8a-9b84-4f2d-8808-479961f36a0f X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 463D190E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 19:58:36 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Though not an expert, (note:I'm having a brain fog) I believe that there are at least 4 embroidery stitches where the embroidery appears on the front and back. blackwork/Spanish work is one. Montenegrin crosstitch. Assisi(?) and a fourth that escapes me. (just finished mowing the lawn in humid weather) I know these were done in the late 1400s but not sure about earlier. De -----Original Message----- This is one of those times. I'm talking with another researcher who's working with a text reference to embroidery. One possible interpretation of the reference would be that it describes embroidery that appears on both the inside and outside of the fabric. To me, that sounds like something on the line of blackwork, designed to be neat and finished looking on both the right and "wrong" side, and thus suited to things like cuff and collar edges that might be turned out. So, questions: 1. Is my memory correct -- is this indeed a characteristic of blackwork? Or any other kind of historic embroidery style? 2. Is this characteristic actually documentable to any non-modern examples? (I know it's easy to assume that a standard definition of a technique must date back forever, but it might be done differently in different periods.) If so, how early? I mentally associate blackwork in particular with the Tudor period, but the reference in this case is about 1400. 3. Can anyone point me to a published source that would document the use of such a "two right sides" technique to a medieval artifact? Ultimately my friend would like to have a citation that shows the use of such inside/outside embroidery from around 1400. Doesn't have to be blackwork. Failing that, it would be helpful to have a citation of such a technique from a later period, even if it's not c. 1400. Many, many thanks, as always, to the wonderfully helpful people on this list. I am always amazed by the breadth of knowledge represented here. --Robin ========================================================== Robin Netherton Editor, Medieval Clothing and Textiles robin@nightowl.net voice: (314) 439-1222 // fax: (314) 439-1666 Life is just a bowl of queries. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 19:59:33 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NxX4N031622 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:59:33 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l45NxIWR027320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 19:59:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l45Nv0fA080409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 17:57:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45Nuxgg099484; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:56:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mf4f.socket.net [216.106.88.199]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l45NuvVj099466 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:56:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B9C5838AF7 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 18:56:56 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 18:57:09 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <009e01c78f70$65b21ff0$0200a8c0@boris> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 80b76de6-92d7-4afc-91fa-41a4fff0c2d4 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463D1A56.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 19:59:22 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Assisi work is also called voided work and is not necessarily done in red thread. Blackwork is not necessarily done with black thread. (are we confused yet?) :) -----Original Message----- To my knowledge -- and blackwork isn't my "thing" -- blackwork is later than 1400. There are more knowledgeable folks on this list than I in that respect. susan There is a form called Assisi work, uses the same stitches as blackwork, but was often worked in red, and I believe there's extant examples of that from the 12th cen. (1100's). I'll see what I can dig up. Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 20:12:49 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l460CnXe031953 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 20:12:49 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l460ATCv029723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 20:12:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l460A8AR081596 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 18:10:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l460A7UJ006226; Sat, 5 May 2007 18:10:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l460A3oB006186 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 18:10:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05527 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:10:16 -0500 Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 19:10:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: cf6a7577-65db-41aa-909f-4545712d8549 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463D1CF5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 20:12:38 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Sat, 5 May 2007, otsisto wrote: > Though not an expert, (note:I'm having a brain fog) I believe that > there are at least 4 embroidery stitches where the embroidery appears > on the front and back. blackwork/Spanish work is one. Montenegrin > crosstitch. Assisi(?) and a fourth that escapes me. (just finished > mowing the lawn in humid weather) I know these were done in the late > 1400s but not sure about earlier. This is the sort of thing I'm looking for -- I don't need a reference to blackwork specifically, but rather to any reversible front/back technique that can be documented to c. 1400. Preferably England. So: Can anyone point me to a good published reference that would solve the need for a footnote to the statement "There were certain types of embroidery that were meant to look good on both front and back of the fabric in 1400"? I felt certain that there wore, and De seems to feel the same, but it's the magical Published Statement that we need. A published reference to an existing artifact would be ideal, or to a description of technique that dates from the period (e.g. not to a 19th-century manual for Assisi-style embroidery). If it helps, the description we're working with says the decoration is in black silk around the collar of a chemise. Presumably the chemise would be linen but it's not specified. All my friend wants to show that is that the nature of the description points to the decoration being embroidery, rather than (say) a band of applied trim. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 20:13:17 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l460DGBT031979 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 20:13:16 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l460D2pm018180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 20:13:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l460CZKM081833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 18:12:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l460CYLG007637; Sat, 5 May 2007 18:12:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp1.america.net (qsmtp1.america.net [69.60.160.244]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l460CVDB007610 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 18:12:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladymaggie@justinanimator.com) Message-Id: <200705060012.l460CVDB007610@net.indra.com> Received: from [65.125.64.173] (helo=MAX.feccommunications.net) by qsmtp1.america.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1HkUMZ-00079t-19 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 05 May 2007 20:12:31 -0400 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 19:12:22 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Genie Barrett Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery In-Reply-To: <009e01c78f70$65b21ff0$0200a8c0@boris> References: <20070505194231.yywn4mrq8ktcc48g@www.goldsword.com> <009e01c78f70$65b21ff0$0200a8c0@boris> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: be34c3f4-b9d8-439d-a709-c268311aeaa7 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463D1D8E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 20:13:06 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At 06:52 PM 5/5/2007, you wrote: >To my knowledge -- and blackwork isn't my "thing" -- blackwork is >later than 1400. There are more knowledgeable folks on this list than >I in that respect. > >susan > >There is a form called Assisi work, uses the same stitches as >blackwork, but was often worked in red, and I believe there's extant >examples of that from the 12th cen. (1100's). I'll see what I can dig up. > >Melusine Yes, it's Italian, named after the town Assisi. It uses Holbein stitch and long-armed cross stitch. My book doesn't have a date. However, I'm not sure how they look on the back. Good luck, Robin Maggie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 20:25:31 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l460PVWJ032331 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 20:25:31 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l460KHlv021874 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 20:25:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l460JsBV082279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 18:19:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l460JrlE011355; Sat, 5 May 2007 18:19:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp1.america.net (qsmtp1.america.net [69.60.160.244]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l460JnEt011313 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 18:19:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladymaggie@justinanimator.com) Message-Id: <200705060019.l460JnEt011313@net.indra.com> Received: from [65.125.64.173] (helo=MAX.feccommunications.net) by qsmtp1.america.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1HkUTd-0007LX-0p for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 05 May 2007 20:19:49 -0400 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 19:17:33 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Genie Barrett Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 0e4adbf5-6b8a-440b-97c8-6773e2c45bb7 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463D1F41.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 20:25:21 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At 07:10 PM 5/5/2007, you wrote: >If it helps, the description we're working with says the decoration is in >black silk around the collar of a chemise. Presumably the chemise would be >linen but it's not specified. All my friend wants to show that is that the >nature of the description points to the decoration being embroidery, >rather than (say) a band of applied trim. > >--Robin It might be easier to document Double Running/Holbein stitch. That always looks the same on both sides and any design stitched in it would be the same on both sides. Just a thought, Genie (Sometimes called Maggie, and rather confused when I'm called what. GRIN) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 20:40:57 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l460evZX032759 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 20:40:57 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l460b6MJ030834 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 20:40:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l460acnr083687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 18:36:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l460aYSe019139; Sat, 5 May 2007 18:36:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l460aV2W019081 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 18:36:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.d44.8010006 (32913) for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 20:36:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 20:36:19 EDT Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1f8e7407-acaa-4256-8d24-3b143bb68337 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463D2332.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 20:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Although with some stitches you can't help making the back nearly as neat as the front (classics indeed being blackwork and tent stitch, etc), I'm not aware of any medieval embroidery being made this way on purpose. And whether styles like blackwork or asissi work, or several others, very much depends on your geographical context. Its appearance at cuffs and collars doesn't have any real relevance to the state of the back, as embroidery was done prior to the making up of the garment (usually), so that the back of the work would be unlikely to be seen. As far as I'm aware the neatness of the back of embroidery dates to the beginnings of samplers - and the earliest known one of these is late 16th century (I think - the one in the v&a textiles room). Both sides same embroidery, where the intention of the work is to have both sides looking exactly the same is 19th century thing (possibly late 18th??), that came about for use on things like military standards. It's also incredibly difficult to do, and one of the banes of my life!! :o) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 20:53:18 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l460rIKr000642 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 20:53:18 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l460m4lT029694 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 20:53:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l460laUw084725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 18:47:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l460lY6O024153; Sat, 5 May 2007 18:47:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l460lSTa024092 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 18:47:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05671 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:47:43 -0500 Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 19:47:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b48629f7-5410-4ced-8ec6-f237257235f2 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 463D25C4.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 20:53:07 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Sat, 5 May 2007 Debloughcostumes@aol.com wrote: > Its appearance at cuffs and collars doesn't have any real relevance to > the state of the back, as embroidery was done prior to the making up > of the garment (usually), so that the back of the work would be > unlikely to be seen. That would certainly be the case for, say, a doublet, but for the cuffs or collars of linen chemises, which are not lined, why would the embroidery be done in advance, or assumed not to be seen? Chemises in 16th century paintings are often shown with blackwork embroidery on cuff edges and collars; presumably the insides of the cuffs would be readily visible, and collars might be turned out in some cases. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 20:55:02 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l460t2HW000675 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 20:55:02 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l460scKd008208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 20:54:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l460sGJs085299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 18:54:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l460sFUn027053; Sat, 5 May 2007 18:54:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l460sBFr027019 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 18:54:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05712 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:54:25 -0500 Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 19:54:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 0052f018-48bc-4c73-8317-c28ad1a1f4fa X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463D274F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 20:54:52 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Sat, 5 May 2007, Robin Netherton wrote: > That would certainly be the case for, say, a doublet, but for the cuffs or > collars of linen chemises, which are not lined, why would the embroidery > be done in advance, or assumed not to be seen? Chemises in 16th century > paintings are often shown with blackwork embroidery on cuff edges and > collars; presumably the insides of the cuffs would be readily visible, and > collars might be turned out in some cases. Like this: http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_of_Art/viewOne.asp?dep=11&viewmode=1&item=49.7.32 About 135 years later than the reference I'm tracking, but shows a case in which one might think of making an embroidered edging on a chemise look good both inside and outside. I can't get close enough to her right cuff to see whether it is reversible, though. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 21:10:31 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l461AUke001139 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 21:10:31 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l461AGbn010129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 21:10:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4619v3u086814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 19:09:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4619tIT034126; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:09:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4619qRf034050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:09:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HkVG2-00014t-Vo; Sat, 05 May 2007 20:09:50 -0500 Received: from 65.13.105.239 ([65.13.105.239]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sat, 05 May 2007 21:09:50 -0400 Message-ID: <20070505210950.2rflcl41qdc4kkws@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 21:09:50 -0400 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/horde/imp/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/horde/imp X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c89b86ed-4a69-484d-abf8-0d8cfb6ab2ec X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463D2AF8.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 21:10:20 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Quoting Robin Netherton : > > On Sat, 5 May 2007, Robin Netherton wrote: > >> That would certainly be the case for, say, a doublet, but for the cuffs o= r >> collars of linen chemises, which are not lined, why would the embroidery >> be done in advance, or assumed not to be seen? Chemises in 16th century >> paintings are often shown with blackwork embroidery on cuff edges and >> collars; presumably the insides of the cuffs would be readily visible, an= d >> collars might be turned out in some cases. > > Like this: > > http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_of_Art/viewOne.asp?dep=3D11&viewmode=3D1&it= em=3D49.7.32 > > About 135 years later than the reference I'm tracking, but shows a case in > which one might think of making an embroidered edging on a chemise look > good both inside and outside. I can't get close enough to her right cuff > to see whether it is reversible, though. > NOw that I can help with. Here's a larger image that I scanned out of =20 Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/english_FairGeraldine-qewuFi= g239.jpg or http://tinyurl.com/2qtsgn Depending on your browser, you may need to click it to see it full sized. susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 21:40:36 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l461eZNu002019 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 21:40:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l461eLhE004649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 21:40:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l461dl6O090404 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 19:39:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l461dhag049507; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:39:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mf4f.socket.net [216.106.88.199]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l461dc5f049457 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:39:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A5BB238BEB for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 20:39:37 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 20:39:49 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: aec4d847-1038-4f31-b4ff-6bf11a0df98e X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463D3205.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 21:40:25 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Perhaps this might work for an example though it is mid 1500s http://www.tudor-portraits.com/LadyDacre.jpg -----Original Message----- Like this: http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_of_Art/viewOne.asp?dep=11&viewmode=1&item=49. 7.32 About 135 years later than the reference I'm tracking, but shows a case in which one might think of making an embroidered edging on a chemise look good both inside and outside. I can't get close enough to her right cuff to see whether it is reversible, though. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 21:49:57 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l461nvSJ002325 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 21:49:57 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l461ihUq019649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 21:49:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l461iAgj090708 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 19:44:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l461i9gQ051717; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:44:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mf4f.socket.net [216.106.88.199]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l461i6Nr051701 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:44:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2875A38185 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 20:44:06 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 20:44:18 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ca60d673-0901-4730-a2d5-6ff97dd7870f X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463D330B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 21:49:46 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Have you read this woman's article? http://mywebpages.comcast.net/medievalneedle/assisi.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 22:03:59 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4623x4j002793 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 22:03:59 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l461wjI3026821 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 22:03:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l461uGuJ091492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 19:56:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l461uEZ8057250; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:56:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l461uA7D057219 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:56:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05877 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 20:56:24 -0500 Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 20:56:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 0eff063a-c37a-4e76-9438-8a8c0aa71167 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 463D3655.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 22:03:49 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Sat, 5 May 2007, otsisto wrote: > Perhaps this might work for an example though it is mid 1500s > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/LadyDacre.jpg Yes! Clearly reversible and meant to be seen as such. Proves the principle, just not the period yet... And here I thought this list would be full of people who who were obsessive about embroidery history who would have this stuff at their fingertips. I have no clue what sources are standard on stitch types, existing artifacts, etc. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 22:04:35 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4624ZJB002818 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 22:04:35 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l461xLcK008979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 22:04:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l461x70m091660 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 19:59:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l461x7p3058616; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:59:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l461x3Jd058574 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 19:59:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05914 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 20:59:18 -0500 Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 20:59:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery In-Reply-To: <20070505210950.2rflcl41qdc4kkws@www.goldsword.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7f6d6cbf-657c-4cf4-bf16-7b90f413ef4a X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463D3679.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 22:04:25 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Sat, 5 May 2007, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > NOw that I can help with. Here's a larger image that I scanned out of > Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked > http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/english_FairGeraldine-qewuFig239.jpg > or > http://tinyurl.com/2qtsgn Aha. I have the book, just haven't hunted for images in my own library. (I'm up to my eyes in preparing for my own sessions at K'zoo and am passing on this question as a favor for another presenter -- I can't spend much time doing her work for her, though). Yes, it does look like the embroiderer would have understood that the inside of the cuffs here would be visible. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 22:05:24 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4625OQX002842 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 22:05:24 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l46259Ax024633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 22:05:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4624heJ092257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 20:04:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4624fCm061456; Sat, 5 May 2007 20:04:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4624aFY061404 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 20:04:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05959 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 21:04:51 -0500 Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 21:04:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: eda64e7e-0c40-41ae-951a-f37f4ddd7628 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463D37D6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 22:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Sat, 5 May 2007, otsisto wrote: > Have you read this woman's article? > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/medievalneedle/assisi.htm No, and I haven't done a Web search, either. Web articles won't be citable for my friend's purposes (an academic paper). I was really hoping that someone here who is already an expert on medieval embroidery would know a book I could point my friend to so she can educate herself and find a useful citation. If that's not the case, she's the one who's going to have to do the hunting; this isn't my project. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 5 22:08:56 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4628ubM002938 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 22:08:56 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4628fPZ020924 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 5 May 2007 22:08:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4628Qx1092639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 20:08:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4628PCD063400; Sat, 5 May 2007 20:08:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4628MOh063335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 20:08:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HkWAe-00001H-Hp; Sat, 05 May 2007 21:08:21 -0500 Received: from 65.13.105.239 ([65.13.105.239]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sat, 05 May 2007 22:08:20 -0400 Message-ID: <20070505220820.5xwolkxs3dsg0owc@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 22:08:20 -0400 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/horde/imp/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/horde/imp X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: dfe87970-446d-426e-90da-36f7d2399165 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463D38AA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 05 May 2007 22:08:45 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Quoting Robin Netherton : > > On Sat, 5 May 2007, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > >> NOw that I can help with. Here's a larger image that I scanned out of >> Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked >> http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/english_FairGeraldine-qew= uFig239.jpg >> or >> http://tinyurl.com/2qtsgn > > Aha. I have the book, just haven't hunted for images in my own library. > (I'm up to my eyes in preparing for my own sessions at K'zoo and am > passing on this question as a favor for another presenter -- I can't spend > much time doing her work for her, though). > > Yes, it does look like the embroiderer would have understood that the > inside of the cuffs here would be visible. There are lots of examples from this period both in English and =20 Italian art where the collar/cuffs are embroidered with the =20 implication that both sides will be seen -- more can be forthcoming if =20 you need additional examples. I don't know what the earliest such =20 example is, though. susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 00:03:11 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4643AMW007223 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 00:03:10 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4642uVx013853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 00:02:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4642XaS015839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 22:02:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4642TDO028696; Sat, 5 May 2007 22:02:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4642QaW028656 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 22:02:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06351 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 23:02:40 -0500 Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 23:02:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery In-Reply-To: <20070505220820.5xwolkxs3dsg0owc@www.goldsword.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ef085179-12a7-4955-8ac3-7a4d2739d471 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463D5370.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 00:03:00 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Sat, 5 May 2007, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > There are lots of examples from this period both in English and > Italian art where the collar/cuffs are embroidered with the > implication that both sides will be seen -- more can be forthcoming if > you need additional examples. I don't know what the earliest such > example is, though. I've sent my contact the images already cited as proof-of-concept for Tudor period, and the information posted here that there were stitches that could be reversible. That's a good start, but for publication purposes she needs a published source on the stitch types for that period (as seen in real examples); is there a book that examines historic stitching with close regard to period, e.g. not just saying "this stitch is medieval" but rather "these stitches appear in X type of artifacts from Y time and Z place"? Holy grail here would be examples of embroidery from c. 1400 clearly meant to be viewed on the reverse. Possibly not available, though. Extant pieces from 1400 are a lot rarer than from 1550. But it's not my area so I don't know all the standard sources the way I do in my own specialties. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 01:12:51 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l465CpXq009300 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 01:12:51 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l465CbRo024337 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 01:12:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l465CBoG021816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 23:12:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l465C4JQ059853; Sat, 5 May 2007 23:12:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l465C1Au059807 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 23:12:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.c49.f86bb1c (52356) for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 01:11:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mblk-d36 (mblk-d36.mblk.aol.com [205.188.212.220]) by ciaaol-r02.mx.aol.com (v115.11) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLR0210-cc84463d6397329; Sun, 06 May 2007 01:11:51 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 01:11:51 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI In-Reply-To: <003e01c78eec$6ccb5740$0200a8c0@bob3pc> X-MB-Message-Type: User MIME-Version: 1.0 From: albertcat@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 25698 Received: from 66.65.45.83 by mblk-d36.sysops.aol.com (205.188.212.220) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sun, 06 May 2007 01:11:51 -0400 Message-Id: <8C95DB430930F58-127C-66F1@mblk-d36.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 205.188.212.220 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: febaf70f-5d50-45c3-b3b6-8d1f464b3faf X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 463D63C5.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 01:12:41 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO -----Original Message----- From: sharon@collierfam.com To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Sat, 5 May 2007 4:07 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic One of the neatest things I remember from 1968" "Romeo and Juliet" was when our teacher pointed out that there were colors for each family---Capulets were in warm tones and Montagues in cool tones. And after Juliet marries, she changes to the cool tones of the Montagues. ************** But this is always done with R&J. The Montagues usually go in cool colors because Romeo is so melancholy at 1st and the Capulets go warm because of Juliet's liveliness and energy at 1st. Either a color thing or the Monagues are done as country folk and the Capulets are city folk...or sometimes both ideas are used. The designs for the film are amazing. It goes deeper than just color. The Capulets are not just in warm colors, but also have an arrogance to their dress and style. As people get killed, everyone goes into dark colors of mourning. Even Juilet's wedding outfit is heavy and oppressive with a dark veil. Beautiful unusual but perfect choice. I just saw NYCB's new production of Prokofiev's R&J. The Montagues are all in greens and blues, and the Capulets are in reds and yellows. But God, is it the ugliest design I've seen in a long time! The pas de deu of the "Balcony scene" was beautiful though. The music to this ballet is amazing! ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 01:38:15 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l465cFpc010033 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 01:38:15 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l465c1nx023065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 01:38:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l465bbr1024251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 5 May 2007 23:37:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l465bZN0070536; Sat, 5 May 2007 23:37:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l465bUMW070491 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 23:37:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m68.in-tch.com [216.166.191.68]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id l465MtB13080 for ; Sat, 5 May 2007 23:22:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <002c01c78fa1$ecba7de0$44bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metrosexual???? OT Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 23:46:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8193a4f6-a67f-49d4-a6e4-148dade6df21 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463D69B9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 01:38:05 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO *snerk* I'd always assumed that it meant someone (gender unspecified) who was somewhat...omnivorous in his/her tastes in partners. ;o) --Sue, apparently pretty clueless about this one ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 4:43 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metrosexual???? OT > > In a message dated 5/5/2007 2:49:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > wickedfrau@msn.com writes: > > I heard the word Metrosexual (MS) for the first time in my life earlier this > week in reference to what I can't remember, then I heard it yesterday for > the second time on the TFS, and just now on NPR on "Wait Wait Don't Tell Me." > > > > Jeez, that expression is so last year, or is it two years ago? No, not gay, > as others have already said. But really into grooming--professional > manicures, facials, and such, and clothes, too, I suppose, although exactly what THE > fashion look was, I'm not clear on--not sure there was ONE look, > clothes-wise. Fastidious, though, for sure. > > I think maybe I would consider Henry VIII a little too lusty to qualify. > While metrosexuals weren't gay, I also don't think they were into, you know, > whatever, whenever. > > Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 03:56:28 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l467uRZH014086 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 03:56:27 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l467tLWW031063 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 03:56:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l467sdfp033643 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 01:54:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l467saZh028578; Sun, 6 May 2007 01:54:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l467sW4S028562 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 01:54:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [68.57.35.93] (helo=momlaptop) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKpCa-1HkbZe49el-0007ip; Sun, 06 May 2007 03:54:32 -0400 Message-ID: <007701c78fb3$c05bad20$6400a8c0@momlaptop> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002c01c78fa1$ecba7de0$44bfa6d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metrosexual???? OT Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 03:54:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18ffLoQvBQLjFi6syT4UYaaZlHFTRUO+uMZ5ct +GRRtA99x0c/hzrPuwae5fJsA+BcspmsJdcHuk5VleA2zJ0tP2 D94FU/Fuxp5PBxHk7Op4g== X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=21% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 76721dad-6eb7-4ce2-a4ed-16bb36c7fc51 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 463D89E9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 03:56:17 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Giggling with joy!!!!!!!!! You hit a topic that gives me an excuse to take a break from grading papers! YIPPEE!!! Many, many thanks. I gave birth to the best example of metrosexual! He has fit the metrosexual description perfectly since he was born in 1976! My #1 son has matched ALL of his clothing since he was 3 y.o. when he started dressing himself. Not only does the shirt and pants have to match but his socks, shoes, underwear, belt (with shoes) ties, caps, etc. My favorite saying about him, "He took my matching fashion colors way to seriously when he was 3 years old." He even takes this matching to extremes, colors and styles of cars have to match and their accessories. This child also spent too much time in front of the mirror. He makes sure to look at himself and adjust hair or clothing everything he passes something that reflects... like windows. He wanted so bad to major in fashion in college, but decided college wasn't for him after two years. But he married a fashion major. She is as bad as him with the color/fashion matching and that their fashions have themes, including their "Better Homes and Garden" home. Theirs and the children wardrobes' volume are unreal! Of course, all their kids' clothing are perfectly matched. Needless to say they are both perfectionist. Every morning she gets up earlier, and finds out what kind of businesses he will be visiting that day or business meetings. She pulls the appropriate ensemble for the day. He has corporate wear, medium-size business and small business wear. This breaks down even more by if the business is located in a large city, small, or rural. Even their casual wear is very preppy and very organized. I guess this business dress theory works. He is one of the top five salespeople in a national Fortune 500 business. My son says that you don't go into a small rural business in an expensive dress shirt and tie. They are scared to talk with you. So you dress the part, a polo shirt and Dockers. He says that the people feel comfortable to talk, if you dress the appropriate way for the clients. My son has the perfect tan year round, waxed eyebrows, and body hair trimmed (everywhere visible). He started taking my coversticks when he was a teenager. He used them to cover zits. He still uses them. He and his wife have perfect skin, due to visiting spas on business trips. His wife will not go a the trip if there is not a good spa at the hotel/resort. A couple of months ago, Bazar magazine declared the term metrosexual was out, on their "What's In and Out" monthly list. I guess that was the formal declaration. There is a new term for this type of person, but I can't recall it at this moment. The other day I had a good giggle while driving my teenage daughter and her girlfriends around . They were discussing the types of guys they liked. Each one would say the types of guy and why. Every girl liked a different types of guy according to their mode of dress and hairstyle. After each girl said their guy's style, my daughter would say, "Well you would like my brother _______ and the type of fashion style." Another girl would say what type of guy they liked. My daughter would say the same thing but with a different name. There was a new girl in the group. She asked, "How many brothers do you have?" My daughter said, "Five and they all have different styles." The other girls said, "Yes, she really does have five big brothers and they all dress differently." My daughter stated that her #1 brother was a metrosexual and the girls asked was he gay. The term metrosexual refers to a male who cares about their fashion sense as much as a well-kept female. That is why some people think that this term metrosexual is a gay man. Some people assume that only gay men dress extremely well and care about their appearance, and straight guys do not. Ironically, my #1 son wanted to fashion major in college. He decided against it because he believed people would think he is gay. I believe my son thinks this because when I was a fashion major student in the 1970s and 1990s, male gay students would come to our home to study for our fashion tests, write papers, etc. Another irony, both my best college friends in these decades were gay guys named Rodney. My son assumes that all guys who are fashion majors are gay. His wife or I can't him otherwise. I have told him that there are gay and straight fashion designers, salesmen, retailers, buyers, etc. and named some of the famous ones. I guess, he is not the only one who thinks this way. Last summer after the Calvin Klein's Biography show in class, several of my students remarked, "I thought he was gay." We had a long talk about assuming someone's sexually because of their career choice. I was expecting this same "gay response" when I showed the same video in last week's class. These students discussed a lot about Klein's career and never mentioned his sexuality. Nowadays, I wonder how many other men decided not to be a fashion major or seek employment in the fashion industry for this same fear. During my classes, I teach the students how to pop handfans and another session, what it feels like to wear 1950s starched petticoats. Before each session, I explain to the students that my sons are straight and love to pop my handfans and have tried on my bags of petticoats. They have even taught their friends, male and female to pop fans and have tried on the petticoats. So far, I have had one guy in every class to refuse to do these things. It is fun learning experience to pop fans and the students had a blast. The best way to know how 1950s females felt when wearing one of those petticoats, is to wear one for a little while. Well...I've enjoyed the break! Time to get the red grading pen back out again. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 08:09:16 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46C9GCi001733 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 08:09:16 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l46C7srB007010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 08:09:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l46C6tUK066029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 06:06:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46C6p3p057882; Sun, 6 May 2007 06:06:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52102.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web52102.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.48.105]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l46C6mHt057796 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 06:06:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 11782 invoked by uid 60001); 6 May 2007 12:06:42 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=TN+rHzQr3veChGJbZKx7Tb0DrAOh3D1ZRTDUWRHIG2QIgQRf6CcPOkNhm81FxOyST2sxTz1frJ+KdkTVQsEYow/spNuGEL7xgtQAvu/NyxLa+ZWwNgDNhoTJ7g7Kz/tKg101cB1AFBemjJPIevCKA7a49K+B8GuVyWUc4GMTWco=; X-YMail-OSG: BBG6UksVM1mEErd5MDppwt3H6ymyvNw3xTZsZ14mmO8t5NCCGjAEmgeu9G_sV1Cpig-- Received: from [74.114.43.209] by web52102.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 06 May 2007 05:06:42 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/478 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.10 Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 05:06:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <590505.10562.qm@web52102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=15% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Medieval Embroidery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 323ef24d-2610-4330-a2eb-f4462eb1ba15 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463DC51A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 08:09:05 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I can kinda-sorta help you out with this one.=0A=0AOne of the shirts in the= Sicilian Bride collection at the Met is completely reversible, done not on= ly in polychrome silks, but gold thread as well. Both cuffs and collars are= coated in it in good 2 inch bands. These date to ca. 1500-1600 Sicily. The= y employ several stitch types, none of which are Assisi or Blackwork in nat= ure. Satin stitch is most predominant in the motifs.=0AAs for publishing...= .wait a year or so and see who ends up published first -me or the Met. ;-)= =0A=0AI understand that insisting on completely reversible, uber-tidy embro= idery backs is far more a Victorian convention than Medieval. I've heard th= is statement debated hotly both ways. The Met collection is by no means nas= ty looking on the back, but you can spot the knots if you look for them.=0A= =0AKathy=0A=0A=0AIt=92s never too late to be who you might have been.=0A-Ge= orge Eliot=0ATosach e=F3lais imchomarc. - Questioning is the beginning of k= nowledge. http://www.sengoidelc.com/node/131=0A=0A=0ASo, questions:=0A=0A1.= Is my memory correct -- is this indeed a characteristic of blackwork?=0AOr= any other kind of historic embroidery style?=0A=0A2. Is this characteristi= c actually documentable to any non-modern=0Aexamples? (I know it's easy to = assume that a standard definition of a=0Atechnique must date back forever, = but it might be done differently in=0Adifferent periods.) If so, how early?= I mentally associate blackwork in=0Aparticular with the Tudor period, but = the reference in this case is about=0A1400.=0A=0A3. Can anyone point me to = a published source that would document the use=0Aof such a "two right sides= " technique to a medieval artifact?=0A=0AUltimately my friend would like to= have a citation that shows the use of=0Asuch inside/outside embroidery fro= m around 1400. Doesn't have to be=0Ablackwork.=0A=0AFailing that, it would = be helpful to have a citation of such a technique=0Afrom a later period, ev= en if it's not c. 1400.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A Be smarter than spa= m. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-ne= w Yahoo! Mail at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=3Dca=0A _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 10:19:13 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46EJC9W005948 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 10:19:13 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l46EIwl7024585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 10:19:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l46EIBjl082379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 08:18:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46EI7bS033811; Sun, 6 May 2007 08:18:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l46EI4TJ033733 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 08:18:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABDD526SARFY99J for (sender ); Sun, 6 May 2007 07:17:52 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgrzzW+84n32MDTooi7b9prM= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id ML3J3LZX; Sun, 06 May 2007 07:16:59 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 21:30:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery Message-ID: <20070506.071559.3384.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-7,11-12 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 3:5:592023728 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 236d9479-edfa-486f-b25f-d1b8540d31fe X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463DE3D2.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 10:19:02 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > There is a form called Assisi work, uses the same stitches as > blackwork, but > was often worked in red, and I believe there's extant examples of > that from > the 12th cen. (1100's). I'll see what I can dig up. > > Melusine It's my understanding that the actual pattern on Assisi (voided) work is done in running stitch (also used in blackwork), but that the filling stitch was cross or some such. Hope someone here fills the void between my ears. ;) Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 10:29:31 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46ETVxL006314 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 10:29:31 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l46EOHKO028380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 10:29:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l46EIAN8082378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 08:18:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46EI7LG033809; Sun, 6 May 2007 08:18:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l46EI4sF033734 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 08:18:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABDD526SAQ6BUVS for (sender ); Sun, 6 May 2007 07:17:52 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgrzzW+84n32MOse7jRRjDkI= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id ML3J3LZ3; Sun, 06 May 2007 07:16:59 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 07:15:58 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery Message-ID: <20070506.071559.3384.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-5,7-49 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 18:9:790321967 X-MAIL-INFO: 22c5845584cdfd41cdfde485fde435b0897024101ddd70d509a01dd0d55934f9d5f444a5c515c5c465e4b9fdc585 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1aaf8686-6a3b-46eb-823b-80f85518f667 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463DE511.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 10:29:20 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In blackwork, double running is the primary stitch, but it's not the stitch which creates the doublesidedness. It's the actual pattern--i.e., how it is executed. Arlys On Sat, 5 May 2007 23:02:40 -0500 (CDT) Robin Netherton writes: > > On Sat, 5 May 2007, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > > > There are lots of examples from this period both in English and > > Italian art where the collar/cuffs are embroidered with the > > implication that both sides will be seen -- more can be > forthcoming if > > you need additional examples. I don't know what the earliest such > > example is, though. > > I've sent my contact the images already cited as proof-of-concept > for > Tudor period, and the information posted here that there were > stitches > that could be reversible. That's a good start, but for publication > purposes she needs a published source on the stitch types for that > period > (as seen in real examples); is there a book that examines historic > stitching with close regard to period, e.g. not just saying "this > stitch > is medieval" but rather "these stitches appear in X type of > artifacts from > Y time and Z place"? > > Holy grail here would be examples of embroidery from c. 1400 clearly > meant > to be viewed on the reverse. Possibly not available, though. Extant > pieces > from 1400 are a lot rarer than from 1550. > > But it's not my area so I don't know all the standard sources the > way I do > in my own specialties. > > --Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 11:39:58 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46Fdv2K008532 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 11:39:57 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l46FZDCk014424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 11:39:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l46FYae9090983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 09:34:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46FYUtp077433; Sun, 6 May 2007 09:34:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46FYQjf077384 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 09:34:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m133.in-tch.com [216.166.191.133]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id l46FJrB03503 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 09:19:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <007701c78ff5$52735c80$85bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 09:43:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 858b4708-198c-4ae3-b00d-78c0b8569a50 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463DF5B1.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 11:39:46 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO We're out here, but at least one of us (me) was completely involved in helping with a local SCA event yesterday, and just now getting caught up in the flood of emails! ;o) --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 7:56 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery > And here I thought this list would be full of people who who were > obsessive about embroidery history who would have this stuff at their > fingertips. I have no clue what sources are standard on stitch types, > existing artifacts, etc. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 12:08:42 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46G8fcb009476 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 12:08:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l46G8Rds032383 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 12:08:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l46G7qf2094527 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 10:07:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46G7otb097709; Sun, 6 May 2007 10:07:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46G7lBe097683 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 10:07:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m133.in-tch.com [216.166.191.133]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id l46FrEB09198 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 09:53:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <008701c78ff9$fa838360$85bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20070505194231.yywn4mrq8ktcc48g@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 10:16:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 07442708-f682-4f57-9330-8bef92ecd1b7 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463DFD7B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 12:08:31 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Monochrome embroidery is actually considerably older than the 1400s. There are surviving Islamic examples from long before that date. The earliest European reference to it, that I'm aware of, is a brief description in Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, in which a woman's shift is described as having black embroidery on it, but that reference predates known European fragments by quite a while. Most folks tend to call this type of embroidery "blackwork," out of habit, or from the association of this style with the elaborate, usually black, embroideries popular in certain parts of 16th century Europe. It does, however, show up in a number of other colors--blues, reds, gold, green, pink. A more accurate term for it is "monochrome" embroidery, since it's done with a single color. I look at something like Assisi work as a cousin ;o), and there are other forms of embroidery like German whitework, and some of the embroidery done on German and Italian shirts (over the areas that are gathered or "smocked," especially, that are also related. --Sue in Montana, *quite* definitely a monochrome/counted thread embroidery geek ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery > To my knowledge -- and blackwork isn't my "thing" -- blackwork is > later than 1400. There are more knowledgeable folks on this list than > I in that respect. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 12:12:53 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46GCqC3009613 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 12:12:52 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l46GCcZl014202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 12:12:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l46GCLB8095078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 10:12:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46GCK3V000592; Sun, 6 May 2007 10:12:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46GCHId000544 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 10:12:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m133.in-tch.com [216.166.191.133]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id l46FvfB09883 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 09:57:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <008c01c78ffa$99d94ee0$85bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 10:21:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: cd187cfc-e500-429e-8ce6-634f3d9d0510 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463DFE76.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 12:12:42 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO The earliest known *dated* sampler is the Bostocke sampler at the V&A, but it's not actually the oldest sampler. There are several in my book "Embroideries and Samplers from Islamic Egypt," and they *all* significantly predate the Bostocke sampler. Which is, nonetheless, one of my favorite pieces in the world ...I pretty much expected beams of light and choirs of angels, when I actually found that sampler in the textile rooms at the V&A. But then, I'm an embroidery geek of long standing! --Sue in Montana ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery > > > > Although with some stitches you can't help making the back nearly as neat as > the front (classics indeed being blackwork and tent stitch, etc), I'm not > aware of any medieval embroidery being made this way on purpose. > > And whether styles like blackwork or asissi work, or several others, very > much depends on your geographical context. > > Its appearance at cuffs and collars doesn't have any real relevance to the > state of the back, as embroidery was done prior to the making up of the garment > (usually), so that the back of the work would be unlikely to be seen. > > As far as I'm aware the neatness of the back of embroidery dates to the > beginnings of samplers - and the earliest known one of these is late 16th century > (I think - the one in the v&a textiles room). > > Both sides same embroidery, where the intention of the work is to have both > sides looking exactly the same is 19th century thing (possibly late 18th??), > that came about for use on things like military standards. It's also > incredibly difficult to do, and one of the banes of my life!! :o) > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 12:22:06 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46GM5PC009909 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 12:22:05 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l46GJJ8G001859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 12:21:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l46GJ1sG095681 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 10:19:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46GJ0pR004238; Sun, 6 May 2007 10:19:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46GIvtX004209 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 10:18:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m133.in-tch.com [216.166.191.133]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id l46G4NB10852 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 10:04:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <009501c78ffb$89b8c760$85bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 10:28:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2a23716c-3663-4a3d-a792-6e1a5f7325c8 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463E0007.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 12:21:54 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO There are actually 16th century portraits out there, in which there are clearly two *different* patterns on the two sides of a collar. It's also obvious, from some of the construction details, that collars had both an inside layer of fabric and an outer (I'm avoiding saying "always," of course....). There's a boy's shirt from, I think, the 1540's, currently at the V&A, which has a small ruffle extending out from the shirt collar. It's pretty clear that the shirt-edge of the ruffle is enclosed between two layers of collar. I'm guessing that your friend is more likely to find evidence of reversability in the cuffs and ruffles (applied or integral), than in the collars. --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 6:47 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery > > On Sat, 5 May 2007 Debloughcostumes@aol.com wrote: > > > Its appearance at cuffs and collars doesn't have any real relevance to > > the state of the back, as embroidery was done prior to the making up > > of the garment (usually), so that the back of the work would be > > unlikely to be seen. > > That would certainly be the case for, say, a doublet, but for the cuffs or > collars of linen chemises, which are not lined, why would the embroidery > be done in advance, or assumed not to be seen? Chemises in 16th century > paintings are often shown with blackwork embroidery on cuff edges and > collars; presumably the insides of the cuffs would be readily visible, and > collars might be turned out in some cases. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 12:23:30 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46GNU3N009958 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 12:23:30 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l46GNGle002826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 12:23:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l46GMwOU096359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 10:22:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46GMvBs007413; Sun, 6 May 2007 10:22:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46GMpqq007345 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 10:22:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m133.in-tch.com [216.166.191.133]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id l46G8JB11390 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 10:08:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <009e01c78ffc$15d723e0$85bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20070506.071559.3384.1.Cley@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 10:32:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b9ab6083-9def-43a0-84c4-c558d3c406b6 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463E00F4.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 12:23:20 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Usually done in a form of long-armed cross stitch, as far as I know. --Sue in Montana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia J Ley" To: Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 10:30 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery > > There is a form called Assisi work, uses the same stitches as > > blackwork, but > > was often worked in red, and I believe there's extant examples of > > that from > > the 12th cen. (1100's). I'll see what I can dig up. > > > > Melusine > > It's my understanding that the actual pattern on Assisi (voided) work is > done in running stitch (also used in blackwork), but that the filling > stitch was cross or some such. Hope someone here fills the void between > my ears. ;) > > Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 12:36:06 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46Ga62i010405 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 12:36:06 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l46GVcnm016675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 12:35:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l46GVI95097825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 10:31:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46GVHrN012733; Sun, 6 May 2007 10:31:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l46GVDcc012659 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 10:31:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABDD6AYEATHRUXA for (sender ); Sun, 6 May 2007 09:31:00 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgkw9EEJj/eTZhDp41MykyfY= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id ML3SPC6B; Sun, 06 May 2007 09:30:07 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 09:29:41 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery Message-ID: <20070506.092942.2992.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-40 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 15:7:2083658068 X-MAIL-INFO: 54411df91da539b8a5395899395815789ccce5cdd579cc2d5505d5002d2801fc2dbd0c084118414c81583c394199 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a644b312-8659-4cd7-8440-de9c92e22f04 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463E02EA.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 12:35:56 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Thanks! :-) Arlys On Sun, 6 May 2007 10:32:04 -0600 "Sue Clemenger" writes: > Usually done in a form of long-armed cross stitch, as far as I know. > --Sue in Montana > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cynthia J Ley" > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 10:30 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery > > > > > There is a form called Assisi work, uses the same stitches as > > > blackwork, but > > > was often worked in red, and I believe there's extant examples > of > > > that from > > > the 12th cen. (1100's). I'll see what I can dig up. > > > > > > Melusine > > > > It's my understanding that the actual pattern on Assisi (voided) > work is > > done in running stitch (also used in blackwork), but that the > filling > > stitch was cross or some such. Hope someone here fills the void > between > > my ears. ;) > > > > Arlys > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 13:04:11 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46H4BKu011380 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 13:04:11 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l46H1lWJ016008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 13:04:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l46GtfNp000530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 10:55:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46GtcYu026219; Sun, 6 May 2007 10:55:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alnrmhc12.comcast.net (alnrmhc12.comcast.net [206.18.177.52]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46GtZ6W026148 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 10:55:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc12) with SMTP id <20070506165530b1200f7a95e>; Sun, 6 May 2007 16:55:30 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <273812A2-3FBC-4008-9224-EF90CAA7F6D3@igc.org> References: <273812A2-3FBC-4008-9224-EF90CAA7F6D3@igc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <1a3a2b388c24a96369eb24afc5a5f660@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Theater vs. Historic-getting OT but can't help myself Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 10:55:29 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 362ea2c7-2080-427c-b842-d04c5213180b X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 463E09FB.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 13:04:00 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On May 4, 2007, at 12:25 AM, Chris Laning wrote: > > > > What I don't think is legitimate is to take half-baked or widely > criticized ideas (aliens building the pyramids, anyone?) and present > them as sober historical fact WITHOUT planting plenty of clues that > you're not _really_ serious. I didn't see "Shakespeare in Love," but > those who watched it closely tell me that a Stratford-on-Avon souvenir > mug appeared fairly prominently, early in the film. Nice touch. > > What?! Aliens didn't build the pyramids? You must not listen to Coast to Coast AM! Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 19:23:53 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46NNrwm024221 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 19:23:53 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l46NNcgB028849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 19:23:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l46NN3lt041758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 17:23:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46NMvN6039129; Sun, 6 May 2007 17:22:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from relay1.netspeed.com.au (relay1.netspeed.com.au [202.78.47.26]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46NMrra039076 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 17:22:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@netspeed.com.au) Received: from netspeed.com.au (unverified [202.78.47.28]) by NSmailstor (SurgeMail 3.8f) with ESMTP id 16380525-1804220 for ; Mon, 07 May 2007 09:23:32 +1000 Received: from [192.168.0.2] (unverified [61.69.24.17]) by NSmailstor (SurgeMail 3.8g) with ESMTP id 52521697-1803868 for ; Mon, 07 May 2007 09:19:19 +1000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.2.5.060620 Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 09:22:48 +1000 From: Aylwen & John Garden To: "Historical Costume " Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Embroidery on pill box hats? Thread-Index: AceQNXVctAksnvwoEduI2wADk7ERAA== In-Reply-To: <008701c78ff9$fa838360$85bfa6d8@pavilion> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-X-Authenticated-User: garden@netspeed.com.au X-X-SpamDetect: : 0.000000 X-Info: aspam skipped due to (g_smite_skip_auth) X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 0, First 0, in=3, out=0, spam=0 ip=61.69.24.17 X-Originating-IP: 61.69.24.17 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Embroidery on pill box hats? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: eba0f3fd-3c8b-491a-bbf2-a735338d46a7 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463E637A.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 19:23:42 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Dear All I'm collecting images of embroidered pillbox hats from the Elizabethan era. If you have any specific links to share, that would be great. I've taken today off work to get some sewing done and am trying not to spend too much time on the computer! Is there any evidence of embroidered flat caps? My first attempt at a pillbox hat came out too large, so I'm making a smaller version, with a desire to embroider it this time around. You can see my first hat at http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/gardens.htm Many thanks, Aylwen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 20:00:39 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4700cZ8025405 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 20:00:38 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4700OI3007148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 20:00:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l46NxU4V045446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 17:59:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46NxTaC059264; Sun, 6 May 2007 17:59:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l467RA6x017430 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 01:27:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=KAG+KDfKXBrHNblbY0j5TLPfL62rsmT1cOvEOuQJnf3w2GFfqmaDLiCkKii+nfN2; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.100.124.1] (helo=boris) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Hkb96-0003gx-Vn for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 May 2007 03:27:05 -0400 Message-ID: <00cd01c78fb0$b88af900$0200a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 00:32:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd48993974a553a1950335412060cd3bb15e900f0771c95f4286350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.100.124.1 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: bfdcc53a-dd46-4115-91fd-7ae83dedf4fc X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463E6C18.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 20:00:28 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > I've sent my contact the images already cited as proof-of-concept for > Tudor period, and the information posted here that there were stitches > that could be reversible. That's a good start, but for publication > purposes she needs a published source on the stitch types for that period > (as seen in real examples); is there a book that examines historic > stitching with close regard to period, e.g. not just saying "this stitch > is medieval" but rather "these stitches appear in X type of artifacts from > Y time and Z place"? > > Holy grail here would be examples of embroidery from c. 1400 clearly meant > to be viewed on the reverse. Possibly not available, though. Extant pieces > from 1400 are a lot rarer than from 1550. > > But it's not my area so I don't know all the standard sources the way I do > in my own specialties. > > --Robin The book you're looking for is "History of Western Embroidery" by Shuette. I think I've got that right, if I don't, please someone correct me. Good luck trying to find it, though. It's been out of print for ages, the copy I owned fell victim to a friend's bad divorce and was destroyed, and my local library's copy has been stolen. Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 20:01:13 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4701Dwb025425 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 20:01:13 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4700wgC003875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 20:01:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4700Zlu045812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 18:00:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4700Y1l060487; Sun, 6 May 2007 18:00:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l46EI4Dc033732 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 08:18:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABDD526SALE2VRJ for (sender ); Sun, 6 May 2007 07:17:52 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgrzzW+84n32MhIyZx1LHfK8= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id ML3J3LZT; Sun, 06 May 2007 07:16:59 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 21:27:29 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery Message-ID: <20070506.071559.3384.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,7-8,11-12,15-16 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 5:2:1701592424 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 56f615f3-808a-4a53-99d5-58123b7a31c7 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 463E6C3B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 20:01:02 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > So, questions: > > 1. Is my memory correct -- is this indeed a characteristic of > blackwork? > Or any other kind of historic embroidery style? Some, but not all, blackwork is reversible, and if it is, it is perfectly suited to cuffs and hankies and napkins where both sides will be seen. That said, this ability to be reversible for some patterns may be a happy accident which occurs owing to the combination of the particular pattern and double running stitch. A happy accident that people kept using. I look forward to further responses too. I've often wondered about pre-Tudor blackwork (Spanish work? Blackwork by any other name?) as well. Thanks for bringing this up Robin! :-) Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 20:01:33 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4701XoZ025437 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 20:01:33 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4701Imu003703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 20:01:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4700slZ045926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 18:00:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4700sTS060755; Sun, 6 May 2007 18:00:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46FwYxg092202 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 09:58:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m133.in-tch.com [216.166.191.133]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id l46Fi1B07587 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 09:44:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <008201c78ff8$b0e7ef80$85bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 10:07:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8391cd9b-5b00-4ab3-8235-a6d3663b9e6b X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463E6C4E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 20:01:22 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO The closest that I can think of, would be this book (one of my faves): "Embroideries ans Samplers from Islamic Egypt" by Marianne Ellis. (Ashmolean Museum, University of Oxford, 2001). ISBN: 1-85444-135-3 (for the paperback version). It's an examination of embroidered textiles, most of which (they think) were used for clothing and light furnishings, and examples range from the Tulunid period (late 9th century) through the Mamluk period (up to 1517). There are a fair number of pieces containing surface embroidery stitches (split stitch, chain stitch, stem stitch, cross stitch, etc.), but a significant number of the pieces comprise some form of monochrome embroidery--double-running stitch, pattern darning, pulled-thread and drawn-thread work, etc. There's a rather nice sampler, for instance, which has been carbon-dated to the 14th century, and which was done in blue silk (and plain linen) threads on linen, and uses double-running stitches and drawn-thread work. There's also a fragment of something they're assuming was part of a towel border, and it's done in blue silk, using double-running stitch. (a repeating pattern of birds, late 14th-early 15th century). There are also a couple of pieces clearly meant to be shirts/tunics, but the embroidery is being used on the sleeves, body, etc., and not so much on collar and cuffs. It's clearly not an examination of European textiles and embroidery, but the author does go to some effort to point out stylistic connections between these bits and later European usage. (Theory being that these Islamic-based styles and techniques spread into Europe on trade routes.) --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 10:02 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery > > On Sat, 5 May 2007, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > > > There are lots of examples from this period both in English and > > Italian art where the collar/cuffs are embroidered with the > > implication that both sides will be seen -- more can be forthcoming if > > you need additional examples. I don't know what the earliest such > > example is, though. > > I've sent my contact the images already cited as proof-of-concept for > Tudor period, and the information posted here that there were stitches > that could be reversible. That's a good start, but for publication > purposes she needs a published source on the stitch types for that period > (as seen in real examples); is there a book that examines historic > stitching with close regard to period, e.g. not just saying "this stitch > is medieval" but rather "these stitches appear in X type of artifacts from > Y time and Z place"? > > Holy grail here would be examples of embroidery from c. 1400 clearly meant > to be viewed on the reverse. Possibly not available, though. Extant pieces > from 1400 are a lot rarer than from 1550. > > But it's not my area so I don't know all the standard sources the way I do > in my own specialties. > > --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 20:01:37 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4701aEF025441 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 20:01:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4701M3G007424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 20:01:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4700xtj045944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 18:00:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4700x7n060820; Sun, 6 May 2007 18:00:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.225]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46G1tAS094288 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 10:01:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aspasia1@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id m7so1436446nzf for ; Sun, 06 May 2007 09:01:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=K3MC9dt1kn0rFiAGhqPdFa+mkbrz81aK3SIdDdowUiFZZx4Y0xa3A5dUcL1QJI36aJ5YQQSdWjrrl9+IE0ENotrreExZQ6wDnHwGpnkjGK2eq8udVrapuxBI2hdN6pXVyfV6xFUQfBJqOCVAHenb5BbDvDhiU8WJM0bx1W4yotY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=hqm8rv4kWsm7jfexmHelH99jXXxEQYliigGpsdgfjDxBXNKzHG19ZV4SJt3WfdMRC9W5LqMPA9DySkUXljcZTBu5DNIS/XVeonsTPIEqP8ablIrYp1DIFgqhH+qBYtyWhDYrO/MCENo2t3RH+7+YGRHe8Y/9hH/AG7P8DY3pYvA= Received: by 10.115.75.1 with SMTP id c1mr1819252wal.1178467314672; Sun, 06 May 2007 09:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.158.20 with HTTP; Sun, 6 May 2007 09:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 12:01:54 -0400 From: "Bonnie Booker" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9d00dc68-152f-464e-a846-5ee9f081d1a3 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463E6C52.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 20:01:26 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Blackwork is my thing. I taught it back at the Known World Art/Sci Symposium in Orlando where you taught the Gothic fitted gown a few years ago. It is more correctly known as "monochrome embroidery" and was mentioned by Chaucer in Canterbury Tales. Chaucer mentions her collar with blackwork inside and outside. It was also sited in Viking Embroidery. There technically are no limits to stitches used. However, what most people think of is the 16th century designs made popular by the Holbein paintings, therefore the Hobein stitch. To see if something could have been done doublesided take graph paper and follow the design with a pencil. If you can do it, even with drawing back over the design with the pencil without lifting the pencil off the paper it can be done double sided. Look for designs on artifacts that can be done this way. Then check with the museums to see if they can tell you if it is done that way. That is the best I can offer you. I work mostly with duplicating designs. > > I am not an embroiderer, and my knowledge of medeival embroidery is > skeletal -- enough to recognize situations in which it occurs, and to know > when to go to others with a question. > > This is one of those times. I'm talking with another researcher who's > working with a text reference to embroidery. One possible interpretation > of the reference would be that it describes embroidery that appears on > both the inside and outside of the fabric. To me, that sounds like > something on the line of blackwork, designed to be neat and finished > looking on both the right and "wrong" side, and thus suited to things like > cuff and collar edges that might be turned out. > > So, questions: > > 1. Is my memory correct -- is this indeed a characteristic of blackwork? > Or any other kind of historic embroidery style? > Of one kind of border designs usually used on undergarments and tunic edges. > 2. Is this characteristic actually documentable to any non-modern > examples? (I know it's easy to assume that a standard definition of a > technique must date back forever, but it might be done differently in > different periods.) If so, how early? I mentally associate blackwork in > particular with the Tudor period, but the reference in this case is about > 1400. > Many, with many different stitches, in many different countries, including Persia. > 3. Can anyone point me to a published source that would document the use > of such a "two right sides" technique to a medieval artifact? Not "two right sides" but the back side looks as good as the front. > Ultimately my friend would like to have a citation that shows the use of > such inside/outside embroidery from around 1400. Doesn't have to be > blackwork. > > Failing that, it would be helpful to have a citation of such a technique > from a later period, even if it's not c. 1400. -- Aspasia Moonwind _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 20:03:02 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l47032hK025500 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 20:03:02 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4702lAp007760 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 20:02:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4702BxI046237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 18:02:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4702AYg061994; Sun, 6 May 2007 18:02:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail-27.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-27.bluehost.com [69.89.17.193]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l46L7nsT070242 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 15:07:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from g.vinje@drakt.org) Message-Id: <200705062107.l46L7nsT070242@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 21888 invoked by uid 0); 6 May 2007 21:07:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box77.bluehost.com) (69.89.21.77) by mailproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 6 May 2007 21:07:49 -0000 Received: from [84.208.192.5] (helo=acer.upc.no) by box77.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HknxM-00032h-EP for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 May 2007 15:07:48 -0600 Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 22:10:54 +0200 To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery From: "G.Vinje" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: Resent-To: "Historical Costume" Resent-From: "G.Vinje" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 23:07:24 +0200 Resent-Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-Identified-User: {515:box77.bluehost.com:draktorg:drakt.org} {sentby:smtp auth 84.208.192.5 authed with g.vinje+drakt.org} X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=40% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f4adeded-3247-4c79-811d-0de539cf8c3c X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463E6CA7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 20:02:51 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Sun, 06 May 2007 01:11:52 +0200, Robin Netherton wrote: > This is one of those times. I'm talking with another researcher who's > working with a text reference to embroidery. One possible interpretation > of the reference would be that it describes embroidery that appears on > both the inside and outside of the fabric. To me, that sounds like > something on the line of blackwork, designed to be neat and finished > looking on both the right and "wrong" side, and thus suited to things > like cuff and collar edges that might be turned out. > It sounds like you are describing darning stitch or weaveseam. An example of weaveseam embroidery front; http://www.bayrose.org/wkneedle/Articles/images/vines05.jpg Back; http://www.bayrose.org/wkneedle/Articles/images/backside.jpg For extant examples in books ; *Traditional Icelandic embroidery, Elsa E. Gudjonson *Att datera textiler, Margareta Nockert & Göran Possnert (mention of a 13th C norwegian weaveseam embroidery as oldest extant in Norway.Also of a swedish extant weaveseam embroidery dated between 1320 and 1440. Another norwegian example is dated between 1440 and 1620). *Embroideries and samplers from Islamic egypt, marianne Ellis *Medeltida vävnader och broderier i Sverige, Agnes Brandting and Andreas Lindholm *Prydnadssömmar under medeltiden, Anne marie Franzén *Embroiderers, medieval craftsmen. Kay Staniland (p.63, german 15th C towel shown pattern front and the reverse pattern on the back). If you need relevant sections translated, let me know. There are examples of illustrations which shows what might either be weaveseam embroidery or possibly a woven pattern from the early 15thC. The stitch was quite popular long before then and there are more than enough extant examples from the 13th C and onwards. Gunvor - "Jeg har sagt ja og nei og DA får du lov" Anders (nesten 4 år) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 20:03:11 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4703BQJ025506 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 20:03:11 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4702uee029332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 20:03:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4702XJv046351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 18:02:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4702WqS062376; Sun, 6 May 2007 18:02:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46Lx5ll096867 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 15:59:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=igc.org; b=oAYCgruNPFqbM6ktKjpvR2LWZlgY9yhx5j78t08bLYeiCpXc5YZoRmhCbucHVhvT; h=Received:Mime-Version:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Message-Id:Content-Transfer-Encoding:From:Subject:Date:To:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [69.105.81.204] (helo=[172.16.1.10]) by elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.34) id 1Hkokt-0005Vw-PN for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 May 2007 17:58:59 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <72DF8E6E-7837-4C43-9CEE-6B22F3727178@igc.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 14:58:36 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-ELNK-Trace: 295639c8be741617f84080ff3e30f22c9ab45c9befd3538ccf3028cca0555527350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.105.81.204 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8f75a4cd-2192-4671-9e6f-2c26a8112937 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463E6CB0.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 20:03:00 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On May 5, 2007, at 4:11 PM, Robin Netherton wrote: > 1. Is my memory correct -- is this indeed a characteristic of > blackwork? > Or any other kind of historic embroidery style? Hi, Robin! Some, but NOT all, historical blackwork is reversible (same on both sides). The idea that ALL blackwork is supposed to be completely reversible is an artifact of the 20th century embroidery revival. > 2. Is this characteristic actually documentable to any non-modern > examples? (I know it's easy to assume that a standard definition of a > technique must date back forever, but it might be done differently in > different periods.) If so, how early? I mentally associate > blackwork in > particular with the Tudor period, but the reference in this case is > about > 1400. I know there is also a tradition of Japanese silk embroidery that is identical on both sides, but I don't know how old that is. And probably not relevant :) > 3. Can anyone point me to a published source that would document > the use > of such a "two right sides" technique to a medieval artifact? IIRC, most of the evidence that it existed is from paintings, which as we all know, may or may not represent reality accurately. I'll e-mail you off list with more info.... ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 20:13:13 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l470DDv8025872 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 20:13:13 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4708thm016634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 20:13:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4708AG2046890 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 18:08:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l47089xj065063; Sun, 6 May 2007 18:08:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.28]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l47086BW065035 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 18:08:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.245.146.150.dial1.stamford1.level3.net ([4.245.146.150]) by pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1Hkqlp-0002ky-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 May 2007 20:08:06 -0400 In-Reply-To: <001401c78fff$a3a747b0$e343a150@CPQ21932199711> References: <001401c78fff$a3a747b0$e343a150@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ruth Anne Baumgartner Subject: Re: [h-cost] pleated trim Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 20:09:08 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=52% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 120ae094-907a-4033-9663-8c043ddcf8c6 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 463E6E18.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 20:13:02 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Bjarne, your patience and your workmanship are both admirable! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On May 6, 2007, at 12:57 PM, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Gosh, i really have putten myself to work with all that pleating > for the dress. Spended 2 days to make trim, and i have not made all > of it yeat. > I have handstitched all the gold trim to the fabric strips, and it > pays to do so because it looks much better....... > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sofie3.htm > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 20:16:31 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l470GVNm025968 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 20:16:31 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l470GGkG004856 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 20:16:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l470Fx5M047817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 18:15:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l470FwgV068831; Sun, 6 May 2007 18:15:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp4.america.net (qsmtp4.america.net [69.60.160.247]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l470FtX0068806 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 18:15:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladymaggie@justinanimator.com) Message-Id: <200705070015.l470FtX0068806@net.indra.com> Received: from [65.125.64.173] (helo=MAX.feccommunications.net) by qsmtp4.america.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1HkqtO-0001Ct-OO for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 May 2007 20:15:54 -0400 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 19:15:49 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Genie Barrett Subject: Re: [h-cost] pleated trim In-Reply-To: <001401c78fff$a3a747b0$e343a150@CPQ21932199711> References: <001401c78fff$a3a747b0$e343a150@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 80e6a051-8e47-4a0b-b9b9-33e308fd0066 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463E6FD1.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 20:16:20 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At 11:57 AM 5/6/2007, you wrote: >Gosh, i really have putten myself to work with all that pleating for >the dress. Spended 2 days to make trim, and i have not made all of it yeat. >I have handstitched all the gold trim to the fabric strips, and it >pays to do so because it looks much better....... >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sofie3.htm > >Bjarne Well, you figured it out. It looks perfect. Not that I had any doubt that you WOULD figure it out. You're good like that. Can't wait to see the final product. The gold trim looks very elegant, and it all seems to be coming together beautifully, as always. Maggie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 20:31:22 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l470VLWq026472 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 20:31:21 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l470V7w6014795 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 20:31:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l470TSOj048956 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 18:29:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l470TPvc075591; Sun, 6 May 2007 18:29:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.24]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l470TLIs075483 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 18:29:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 38930 invoked by uid 60001); 7 May 2007 00:29:16 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=3T9FxwGweZqOprgfUxHUd+02JoDhZqwhazIcNlBC1F0qQb5e9Ncz5P4br7aCIJII2c3Sl5tp6fOIaWGFGCTAruwYKeEOHUNwPE86NvXstCV4QSdVq9LFeAvPwENxeg6Gt32P/FLgD8TDfUVhrPTBmeHvV4dECIqOwvw9GQ0Td9Y=; X-YMail-OSG: 9Mfw0tUVM1ncnlKyDONd5SUUB24k2uEZ3.mHygBPLM__q9tMSnb1_WE3kSlK5az_Gw-- Received: from [76.173.40.71] by web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 06 May 2007 17:29:16 PDT Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 17:29:16 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <351191.38925.qm@web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=20% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7ad2fd66-f612-49c2-b676-b5c10099ca50 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463E734B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 20:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Here's one piece I know is reversible. Queen Jane's cuffs. Unfortunately somewhat later than 1400. http://www.elizabethancostume.net/blackwork/seymour.html http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/jane-notes.html MaggiRos --- Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Sat, 5 May 2007, otsisto wrote: > > This is the sort of thing I'm looking for -- I don't > need a reference to > blackwork specifically, but rather to any reversible > front/back technique > that can be documented to c. 1400. Preferably > England. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 20:41:22 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l470fMcO026781 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 20:41:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l470eeT5019584 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 20:41:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4701704045973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 18:01:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l470175k060941; Sun, 6 May 2007 18:01:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46GNJHa007674 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 10:23:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08826 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 11:23:36 -0500 Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 11:23:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery In-Reply-To: <008701c78ff9$fa838360$85bfa6d8@pavilion> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9648a882-d242-49ed-b53b-314c0eed4846 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463E7588.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 20:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Sun, 6 May 2007, Sue Clemenger wrote: > Monochrome embroidery is actually considerably older than the 1400s... Sue, any insights into embroidery meant to be seen from both sides, as on cuffs or collars? That's the real issue here -- how early that concept might apply. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 20:41:24 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l470fMcQ026781 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 20:41:24 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l470eeT7019584 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 20:41:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4701ELN046003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 18:01:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4701DtA061035; Sun, 6 May 2007 18:01:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep32.mail.dk (fep32.mail.dk [80.160.76.196]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l46GveoV027365 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 10:57:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep41.mail.dk ([195.41.46.142]) by fep32.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070506165730.DTHT13440.fep32.mail.dk@fep41.mail.dk> for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 18:57:30 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.227]) by fep41.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070506165730.ZLPD1370.fep41.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 18:57:30 +0200 Message-ID: <001401c78fff$a3a747b0$e343a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 18:57:30 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep41.mail.dk from [80.161.67.227] at Sun, 6 May 2007 18:57:28 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=19% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] pleated trim X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: dd6210fa-b9f6-4a35-bed7-5c9c67198e96 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463E7588.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 20:41:14 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Gosh, i really have putten myself to work with all that pleating for the dress. Spended 2 days to make trim, and i have not made all of it yeat. I have handstitched all the gold trim to the fabric strips, and it pays to do so because it looks much better....... http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sofie3.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 20:47:25 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l470lOr2027002 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 20:47:25 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l470lAKO024366 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 20:47:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l470kSFj050377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 18:46:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l470kQBi084419; Sun, 6 May 2007 18:46:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l470kNNN084343 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 18:46:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HkrMr-0003nz-GX; Sun, 06 May 2007 19:46:21 -0500 Received: from 65.13.105.239 ([65.13.105.239]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sun, 06 May 2007 20:46:21 -0400 Message-ID: <20070506204621.cadszhjyob48sk88@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 20:46:21 -0400 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery References: <00cd01c78fb0$b88af900$0200a8c0@boris> In-Reply-To: <00cd01c78fb0$b88af900$0200a8c0@boris> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/horde/imp/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/horde/imp X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: d39b5382-8a48-4a10-bbcc-28eeaf32e63f X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463E770E.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 20:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Quoting Carmen Beaudry : *snip* > > The book you're looking for is "History of Western Embroidery" by > Shuette. I think I've got that right, if I don't, please someone > correct me. Good luck trying to find it, though. It's been out of > print for ages, the copy I owned fell victim to a friend's bad divorce > and was destroyed, and my local library's copy has been stolen. > I may have missed something, I just did a cursory look (and my copy is =20 titled "The ARt of Embroidery," but the most common title is =20 "Pictorial History of Embroidery" or "Das Stieckerwerk"), but ... Until the 16th century, the only garments in Schuette are Ecclestical =20 (Copes, Dalmaticas, Chasubles, Orphreys, etc.) and they're not =20 designed to be reversible. I can't say none of the 16th century =20 garments are designed to be seen on both sides, but none of them look =20 like it, and none of them are chemises/shifts/shirts -- they're =20 jackets, night caps, coifs, etc. susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 21:22:50 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l471Moxr029150 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 21:22:50 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l471HaCd020193 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 21:22:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l471H0E1053175 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 19:17:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l471Gw58099847; Sun, 6 May 2007 19:16:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l471Gtqb099815 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 19:16:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10731 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 20:17:14 -0500 Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 20:17:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f0a2b8eb-5fdd-4f20-9299-fdf75c277216 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463E7E30.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 21:22:39 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Sun, 6 May 2007, Bonnie Booker wrote: > Blackwork is my thing. I taught it back at the Known World Art/Sci > Symposium in Orlando where you taught the Gothic fitted gown a few > years ago. It is more correctly known as "monochrome embroidery" and > was mentioned by Chaucer in Canterbury Tales. Chaucer mentions her > collar with blackwork inside and outside. I'm aware of this reference -- it comes up a lot in discussions of 14th c. embroidery -- and I always pictured something like blackwork when I heard it, as it is black silk embroidery on a white smock, described as being all around the collar. But I'm wondering if that's the right interpretation of the following line, which indicates that the embroidery is "withinne and eek withoute." I can't think of a better way to read it, but smocks in this period were not designed to show outside the dress, and did not have necklines that could be turned outward -- that I know of -- to show the inside. Anyone have a better reading? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 21:25:24 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l471POtB029223 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 21:25:24 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l471PAhI031379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 21:25:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l471MeWJ053658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 19:22:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l471Mdm3002697; Sun, 6 May 2007 19:22:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l471MZlZ002619 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 19:22:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=O/W+gjElsrWEOIFJr0FlkQeB37D9cbw0aEhad/yDGbzZd+q204EgbCDYMW2EbbH8; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.100.124.1] (helo=boris) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Hkrvp-0005iE-T1 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 06 May 2007 21:22:30 -0400 Message-ID: <013501c79046$f95c1360$0200a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00cd01c78fb0$b88af900$0200a8c0@boris> <20070506204621.cadszhjyob48sk88@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 18:28:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd48d9d625f063e3f5659ac9f7af7c78bb86bd9aa8b00e01cd47350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.100.124.1 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c31e4818-3ecf-4906-9957-88fdcf32a43c X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 463E7FF6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 21:25:14 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I may have missed something, I just did a cursory look (and my copy is titled "The ARt of Embroidery," but the most common title is "Pictorial History of Embroidery" or "Das Stieckerwerk"), but ... Until the 16th century, the only garments in Schuette are Ecclestical (Copes, Dalmaticas, Chasubles, Orphreys, etc.) and they're not designed to be reversible. I can't say none of the 16th century garments are designed to be seen on both sides, but none of them look like it, and none of them are chemises/shifts/shirts -- they're jackets, night caps, coifs, etc. susan It's entirely possible I've got the wrong book in mind, since my copy was destroyed several years ago. I know there's one that has secular embroidered garments way earlier than the 16th century. Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 21:28:29 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l471STOi029321 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 21:28:29 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l471SFIF019344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 21:28:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l471Rrvu054001 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 19:27:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l471RqMd005164; Sun, 6 May 2007 19:27:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web81115.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81115.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.47]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l471RnMl005092 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 19:27:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynnroth@sbcglobal.net) Received: (qmail 23098 invoked by uid 60001); 7 May 2007 01:27:44 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=SmrtbLa3a6eckfvhSp2UGoHYkwkEqtaos4lQh0vMoeQ0pFE1oyZKhDKSJB/P4axIeFJoY/0G7Nm6Y2qA558H/N5A3eeGI4xHIW8ftgAv/sITZ+44FKTmYjbGrQp9rrUbZ2tRTtIT7SJA31hbZLKVCbM31/j47uSBF1kOuWjKMQU=; X-YMail-OSG: _gqkwiwVM1m6kr9A7GOSSEsioMYo6_IKoEEVRmFKKYKsGdnxfav40H_eHDt0o4EB3ktEr8317Nr3a6zal.DBZq_ZllfK3ckbgOsthJ.2JaOJamAtr94- Received: from [69.37.27.227] by web81115.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 06 May 2007 18:27:44 PDT Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 18:27:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Roth Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <284164.20218.qm@web81115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2594334b-6986-42b8-8934-fb9ccbe6fdbe X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463E80AF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 21:28:19 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I have a question regarding Blackwork. How do you embroider on a cuff? If you make a chemise and want to do blackwork on a cuff whats the best wa y to do it? Lynn Bonnie Booker wrote: Blackwork is my thing. I taught it back at the Known World Art/Sci Symposium in Orlando where you taught the Gothic fitted gown a few years ago. It is more correctly known as "monochrome embroidery" and was mentioned by Chaucer in Canterbury Tales. Chaucer mentions her collar with blackwork inside and outside. It was also sited in Viking Embroidery. There technically are no limits to stitches used. However, what most people think of is the 16th century designs made popular by the Holbein paintings, therefore the Hobein stitch. To see if something could have been done doublesided take graph paper and follow the design with a pencil. If you can do it, even with drawing back over the design with the pencil without lifting the pencil off the paper it can be done double sided. Look for designs on artifacts that can be done this way. Then check with the museums to see if they can tell you if it is done that way. That is the best I can offer you. I work mostly with duplicating designs. > > I am not an embroiderer, and my knowledge of medeival embroidery is > skeletal -- enough to recognize situations in which it occurs, and to know > when to go to others with a question. > > This is one of those times. I'm talking with another researcher who's > working with a text reference to embroidery. One possible interpretation > of the reference would be that it describes embroidery that appears on > both the inside and outside of the fabric. To me, that sounds like > something on the line of blackwork, designed to be neat and finished > looking on both the right and "wrong" side, and thus suited to things like > cuff and collar edges that might be turned out. > > So, questions: > > 1. Is my memory correct -- is this indeed a characteristic of blackwork? > Or any other kind of historic embroidery style? > Of one kind of border designs usually used on undergarments and tunic edges. > 2. Is this characteristic actually documentable to any non-modern > examples? (I know it's easy to assume that a standard definition of a > technique must date back forever, but it might be done differently in > different periods.) If so, how early? I mentally associate blackwork in > particular with the Tudor period, but the reference in this case is about > 1400. > Many, with many different stitches, in many different countries, including Persia. > 3. Can anyone point me to a published source that would document the use > of such a "two right sides" technique to a medieval artifact? Not "two right sides" but the back side looks as good as the front. > Ultimately my friend would like to have a citation that shows the use of > such inside/outside embroidery from around 1400. Doesn't have to be > blackwork. > > Failing that, it would be helpful to have a citation of such a technique > from a later period, even if it's not c. 1400. -- Aspasia Moonwind _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 21:37:33 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l471bXDA029598 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 21:37:33 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l471Yw6k024042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 21:37:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l471YXV7054554 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 19:34:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l471YVWs008488; Sun, 6 May 2007 19:34:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net [71.162.243.5]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l471YSZU008463 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 19:34:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E4AE7000D2 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 21:33:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] pleated trim Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 21:33:37 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 References: <001401c78fff$a3a747b0$e343a150@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <001401c78fff$a3a747b0$e343a150@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200705062133.37849.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9680d8f8-ae79-4b09-a1a1-0581ea8920ba X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463E8242.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 21:37:22 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Sunday 06 May 2007, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Gosh, i really have putten myself to work with all that pleating for the > dress. Spended 2 days to make trim, and i have not made all of it yeat. > I have handstitched all the gold trim to the fabric strips, and it pays to > do so because it looks much better....... Yes, it does. The final gown will be stunning! -- Cathy Raymond "You've got to have the proper amount of disrespect for what you do." -- George Mabry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 22:18:58 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l472IwCC030823 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 22:18:58 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l472DiiJ008939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 22:18:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l472D742058911 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 20:13:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l472D5cY029520; Sun, 6 May 2007 20:13:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net (ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l472D2pZ029443 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 20:13:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net ([162.40.179.22]) by ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20070507021256.TUKU5292.ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net@ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net> for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 21:12:56 -0500 Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.22]) by ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20070507021256.PCGF6757.ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 21:12:56 -0500 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 21:12:38 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: RE: [h-cost]Authentic fabric widths In-Reply-To: <200705060019.l460JtsH011385@net.indra.com> References: <200705060019.l460JtsH011385@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Message-Id: <20070507021256.PCGF6757.ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=31% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 49721232-87bf-4af4-8560-8ae52b26cf3f X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 463E8B58.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 22:18:47 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I'll check Arnold. Thanks to both of you for replying. I have an image in one of my books of a church in France where the "yard stick" is carved into the exterior wall. I do remember that English woolen broadcloth was about 2 yards wide and that various silks and silk velvets were in the range of 2 feet or less. I was hoping that someone already had a list of the variations in width and length online somewhere. Just lazy I guess... another project for my to-do list! ...eventually it will get done, I promise. Take care, Beth At 07:19 PM 5/5/2007, you wrote: >Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 16:35:52 -0700 (PDT) >From: MaggiRos > >There's some information in the back of the >Elizabethan Patterns of Fashion (Janet Arnold) > >MaggiRos >--- WickedFrau wrote: > > > I'll go look, but as I recall there were various > > widths available during > > these times. I know for sure that an ell was > > different lengths in different > > places at different times. Some widths were > > surprisingly wide...like 60 > > inches. I'll get back to you. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 22:19:39 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l472JdCS030846 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 22:19:39 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l472GsQv010911 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 22:19:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l472GV7a059285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 20:16:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l472GVJP031363; Sun, 6 May 2007 20:16:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.116]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l472GRqS031304 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 20:16:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from khanson@kc.rr.com) Received: from karen (CPE-72-128-23-84.kc.res.rr.com [72.128.23.84]) by ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l472GPX0023021 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 21:16:25 -0500 (CDT) From: "KHanson" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost]Authentic fabric widths Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 21:17:36 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: <20070507021256.PCGF6757.ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1bda782a-ba1b-4edd-aa7b-d567d2d6fa95 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463E8C16.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 22:19:28 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO As far as I've heard, up to 108" in some places, like Italy... Talia -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Beth and Bob Matney Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 9:13 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost]Authentic fabric widths I'll check Arnold. Thanks to both of you for replying. I have an image in one of my books of a church in France where the "yard stick" is carved into the exterior wall. I do remember that English woolen broadcloth was about 2 yards wide and that various silks and silk velvets were in the range of 2 feet or less. I was hoping that someone already had a list of the variations in width and length online somewhere. Just lazy I guess... another project for my to-do list! ...eventually it will get done, I promise. Take care, Beth At 07:19 PM 5/5/2007, you wrote: >Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 16:35:52 -0700 (PDT) >From: MaggiRos > >There's some information in the back of the >Elizabethan Patterns of Fashion (Janet Arnold) > >MaggiRos >--- WickedFrau wrote: > > > I'll go look, but as I recall there were various > > widths available during > > these times. I know for sure that an ell was > > different lengths in different > > places at different times. Some widths were > > surprisingly wide...like 60 > > inches. I'll get back to you. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.4/790 - Release Date: 5/5/2007 10:34 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.4/790 - Release Date: 5/5/2007 10:34 AM _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 22:33:38 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l472Xc3m031282 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 22:33:38 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l472VCss012621 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 22:33:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l472UlAI060684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 20:30:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l472UjOq038975; Sun, 6 May 2007 20:30:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from relay2.netspeed.com.au (relay2.netspeed.com.au [202.78.47.27]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l472UeaB038907 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 20:30:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@netspeed.com.au) Received: from netspeed.com.au (unverified [202.78.47.28]) by NSmailstor (SurgeMail 3.8f) with ESMTP id 16331636-1803867 for ; Mon, 07 May 2007 12:28:31 +1000 Received: from [192.168.0.4] (unverified [210.9.137.37]) by NSmailstor (SurgeMail 3.8g) with ESMTP id 52614232-1803868 for ; Mon, 07 May 2007 12:25:41 +1000 In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <4FD41909-4AB0-4C95-8DC3-73DDF15DFC3D@netspeed.com.au> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: garden@netspeed.com.au Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 12:29:06 +1000 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-X-Authenticated-User: garden@netspeed.com.au X-X-SpamDetect: : 0.000000 X-Info: aspam skipped due to (g_smite_skip_auth) X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 0, First 0, in=9, out=0, spam=0 Known=true ip=210.9.137.37 X-Originating-IP: 210.9.137.37 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Finding shoes? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4f292228-688a-4937-ae97-51567fd43c74 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 463E8F70.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 22:33:27 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Dear All I have to find some cheap shoes online for my sons (aged 6, 11 and 13) to wear that will "look" Elizabethan upper class. I've looked in the stores here but all the slippers have motifs on them. Does anyone have any ideas? Many thanks, Aylwen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 6 22:52:23 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l472qN1t031890 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 22:52:23 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l472q8O5008063 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 6 May 2007 22:52:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l472pkfK063227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 20:51:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l472phU8050444; Sun, 6 May 2007 20:51:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web31501.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31501.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.130]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l472pdpC050322 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 20:51:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bella_lucia_da_verona@yahoo.com.au) Received: (qmail 80805 invoked by uid 60001); 7 May 2007 02:51:34 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com.au; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=F7xkirN3Bu7bw8xiQg2xq7Hxx5bwGzG8jqh6drjgHnCGDPsb45MnC8j2De1NT4R8oqTsrc2hdyAB5k3xew5RMMhllOVlvWQ0XdFL3GXeADzMwrXynmBzJkgvlUgdumLiU9wf4JC2rSYUh/F8NM+6/EVetEzA739ZT3ZbNw/kubU=; X-YMail-OSG: g0O0ZV0VM1nnnrw3RmVgCw6IYqBEPOvvDdMOJKL_fs04T_TypX4HpM674DA_fmXjqhJ3FM3WKK2ThwkVZ2aTc05_uUq8Xmb.zQAVCpuztWLfqD4wvqs- Received: from [209.191.106.126] by web31501.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 06 May 2007 19:51:34 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.23 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.10 Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 19:51:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Bella Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finding shoes? To: Historical Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <530104.61343.qm@web31501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=17% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 6fa209ab-ee1a-4644-958f-8d0f1d960c14 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463E9458.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 06 May 2007 22:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO ----- Original Message ---- From: "garden@netspeed.com.au" To: Historical Costume Sent: Monday, 7 May, 2007 11:59:06 AM Subject: [h-cost] Finding shoes? Dear All I have to find some cheap shoes online for my sons (aged 6, 11 and 13) to wear that will "look" Elizabethan upper class. I've looked in the stores here but all the slippers have motifs on them. Does anyone have any ideas? Many thanks, Aylwen<<< Hi Aylwen, if you have a good Chinatown or good Asian stores nearby try looking for plain Chinese slippers. Mostly you'll find black canvas, but on occasion you may find black velvet ones. I don't know if there are other colours available though. Good luck! Bella The Realm of Venus http://realmofvenus.net Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 7 00:26:05 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l474Q4Nu001672 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 00:26:04 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l474PoHo012047 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 May 2007 00:25:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l474PDDV072159 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 22:25:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l474P7jw097051; Sun, 6 May 2007 22:25:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from relay1.netspeed.com.au (relay1.netspeed.com.au [202.78.47.26]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l474P2Ur097006 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 22:25:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@netspeed.com.au) Received: from netspeed.com.au (unverified [202.78.47.28]) by NSmailstor (SurgeMail 3.8f) with ESMTP id 16398602-1804220 for ; Mon, 07 May 2007 14:25:42 +1000 Received: from [192.168.0.4] (unverified [61.69.1.39]) by NSmailstor (SurgeMail 3.8g) with ESMTP id 52662937-1803868 for ; Mon, 07 May 2007 14:21:35 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <530104.61343.qm@web31501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <530104.61343.qm@web31501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-Id: From: garden@netspeed.com.au Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finding shoes? Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 14:25:00 +1000 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-X-Authenticated-User: garden@netspeed.com.au X-X-SpamDetect: : 0.000000 X-Info: aspam skipped due to (g_smite_skip_auth) X-ShareWhite: 61.69.1.39 X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 0, First 0, in=1, out=0, spam=0 ip=61.69.1.39 X-Originating-IP: 61.69.1.39 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 606e866f-c870-404e-acfa-53be255a5895 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 463EAA4E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 07 May 2007 00:25:54 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Thanks Bella. I hadn't thought of these shoes. I've just found a good source http:// www.chinadirectstore.com/women_shoes.htm They have many colours and good prices. Cheers, Aylwen On 07/05/2007, at 12:51 PM, Bella wrote: > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "garden@netspeed.com.au" > To: Historical Costume > Sent: Monday, 7 May, 2007 11:59:06 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Finding shoes? > > > Dear All > > I have to find some cheap shoes online for my sons (aged 6, 11 and > 13) to wear that will "look" Elizabethan upper class. I've looked in > the stores here but all the slippers have motifs on them. Does anyone > have any ideas? > > Many thanks, Aylwen<<< > > > > Hi Aylwen, > > if you have a good Chinatown or good Asian stores nearby try > looking for plain Chinese slippers. Mostly you'll find black > canvas, but on occasion you may find black velvet ones. I don't > know if there are other colours available though. Good luck! > > > > Bella > The Realm of Venus > http://realmofvenus.net > > Send instant messages to your online friends http:// > au.messenger.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 7 01:22:13 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l475MBIV002895 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 01:22:11 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l475IPAV003051 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 May 2007 01:21:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l475HuaJ077550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 6 May 2007 23:17:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l475HsPZ022942; Sun, 6 May 2007 23:17:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l475HpH1022907 for ; Sun, 6 May 2007 23:17:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A4AA13EB0414; Mon, 07 May 2007 05:10:02 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Finding shoes? Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 22:17:43 -0700 Message-ID: <000601c79067$0a4d0740$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: <4FD41909-4AB0-4C95-8DC3-73DDF15DFC3D@netspeed.com.au> Importance: Normal X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c4bf3d1a-c6ac-4826-bca7-9734265e81b7 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463EB6A1.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 07 May 2007 01:22:00 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO If you go to: www.landsend.com and go to Overstocks, they have "all weather mocs" for about $10 US. If you need outdoor shoes, these are pretty good. You can dye or spray paint them if the colors aren't right. They also have other styles that might work. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of garden@netspeed.com.au Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 7:29 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Finding shoes? Dear All I have to find some cheap shoes online for my sons (aged 6, 11 and 13) to wear that will "look" Elizabethan upper class. I've looked in the stores here but all the slippers have motifs on them. Does anyone have any ideas? Many thanks, Aylwen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 7 11:11:21 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l47FBLKS019941 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 11:11:21 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l47FB65a031598 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 May 2007 11:11:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l47FA0Vg044319 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 May 2007 09:10:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l47F9mfR087782; Mon, 7 May 2007 09:09:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kumc-gwia.kumc.edu (kumc-gwia.kumc.edu [169.147.4.23]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l47F9Ffj087229 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 09:09:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from kumc-mpg3.kumc.edu ([::ffff:10.120.1.73]) by kumc-gwia.kumc.edu with ESMTP; Mon, 07 May 2007 10:08:39 -0500 Received: from kumc-smtpout (mithril@localhost) by kumc-mpg3.kumc.edu with ESMTP id l47F8di59819 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 10:08:39 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from Ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout [10.120.1.11]) by kumc-mpg3.kumc.edu ([10.120.1.74]); 07 May 2007 10:08:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 07 May 2007 10:08:39 -0500 References: <200705070216.l472GWZx031379@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 10:08:08 -0500 Message-ID: <463EFA88.C9FB.00A6.0@kumc.edu> In-Reply-To: <200705070216.l472GWZx031379@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5f5fa8b6-b931-4b14-a3b7-3a8142920b43 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463F418A.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 07 May 2007 11:11:10 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO lots of fun embroidery discussion that I missed because I'm not online over the weekend snipped for length, sigh :): > Monochrome embroidery is actually considerably older than the 1400s... Sue, any insights into embroidery meant to be seen from both sides, as on cuffs or collars? That's the real issue here -- how early that concept might apply. --Robin > Blackwork is my thing. I taught it back at the Known World Art/Sci > Symposium in Orlando where you taught the Gothic fitted gown a few > years ago. It is more correctly known as "monochrome embroidery" and > was mentioned by Chaucer in Canterbury Tales. Chaucer mentions her > collar with blackwork inside and outside. I'm aware of this reference -- it comes up a lot in discussions of 14th c. embroidery -- and I always pictured something like blackwork when I heard it, as it is black silk embroidery on a white smock, described as being all around the collar. But I'm wondering if that's the right interpretation of the following line, which indicates that the embroidery is "withinne and eek withoute." I can't think of a better way to read it, but smocks in this period were not designed to show outside the dress, and did not have necklines that could be turned outward -- that I know of -- to show the inside. Anyone have a better reading? --Robin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robin, If you are needing 14th C the best references I can think of are Chaucer and the Mamluk embroidery. There is a new article on Mamluk work by Kathleen Staples in the newest issue of Sampler and Antigue Needlework Quarterly (http://www.just-crossstitch.com/sanq.htm). I just got it this weekend but have not read it yet. If I see something that might help I will drop you a line. And unfortunately the best argument I can think of against what it looks like you are trying to find are the fashion elements themselves of this era, reversible chemise cuffs or necklines don't spring to mind. Perhaps finding documentation for elements that would showcase reversible embroidery is another path to try. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 7 11:27:16 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l47FRGsL020406 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 11:27:16 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l47FR1xb003671 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 May 2007 11:27:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l47FQMdm047116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 May 2007 09:26:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l47FPh5F003912; Mon, 7 May 2007 09:25:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.246]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l47FPacw003717 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 09:25:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 82521 invoked by uid 60001); 7 May 2007 15:25:01 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=XTLDGH7LAJN9buTQ/hWB3PiBLKrG4fs/IlQrLVkl8/KdFifRtIhNizlr/lvGC7wag471qhKWU9cw+TUlpymZv5t3N1rGMkugqcqsy2uEnGX1DQd1aYdDIATWblFpGOax6JXNp01tGV4Va3kTZN4VV0EZveIz+1iKvp2gmJf90K4= ; Message-ID: <20070507152501.82519.qmail@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: eC8jIDsVM1nUO4Kk4cYuYpCUdDZBIyEHh6xcVzXvUuKQ7rvSVjVsWdZZmQ8t34vo7bVOOpPyzA-- Received: from [208.179.44.218] by web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 May 2007 08:25:01 PDT Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 08:25:01 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <284164.20218.qm@web81115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=13% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 51775332-b953-4ff7-b5de-8c1400ef9995 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 463F4545.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 07 May 2007 11:27:05 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO You have a cuff pattern is, right? So you trace it onto the fabric, then cut around it, big enough to let you work it in your embrodery frame or hoop. When you're finished, cut out only the pattern shape. (This saves you from cutting up the actual work.) MaggiRos --- Lynn Roth wrote: > I have a question regarding Blackwork. How do you > embroider on a cuff? If you make a chemise and want > to do blackwork on a cuff whats the best wa y to do > it? = _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 7 13:16:07 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l47HG7JX024119 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 13:16:07 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l47HFprs018948 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 May 2007 13:15:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l47HFF2C064049 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 May 2007 11:15:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l47HFBtU015800; Mon, 7 May 2007 11:15:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mtai04.charter.net (mtai04.charter.net [209.225.8.184]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l47HF6pA015648 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 11:15:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fox3785@charter.net) Received: from aa08.charter.net ([10.20.200.160]) by mtai04.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.00 201-2186-121-20061213) with ESMTP id <20070507171501.IFQR1421.mtai04.charter.net@aa08.charter.net> for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 13:15:01 -0400 Received: from familyroom ([24.107.226.203]) by aa08.charter.net with ESMTP id <20070507171500.CUVG3037.aa08.charter.net@familyroom> for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 13:15:00 -0400 From: "The Foxes" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Finding shoes? Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 13:15:09 -0400 Message-ID: <000501c790cb$43edfea0$0202a8c0@familyroom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <4FD41909-4AB0-4C95-8DC3-73DDF15DFC3D@netspeed.com.au> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Chzlrs: 0 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 72638aaf-d6cc-4aeb-9b61-b94c023ca557 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463F5EC7.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 07 May 2007 13:15:55 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO My son wears girls shoes, mary jane style. http://www.payless.com/Catalog/ProductDetail.aspx?&TLC=Girls&SLC=GirlsCa sual&BLC=GirlsCasualCasual&Width=Regular&ItemCode=34906&LotNumber=041957 &Type=Youth&Popularity=316&DescriptiveColor=Black good luck -annette -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of garden@netspeed.com.au Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 10:29 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Finding shoes? Dear All I have to find some cheap shoes online for my sons (aged 6, 11 and 13) to wear that will "look" Elizabethan upper class. I've looked in the stores here but all the slippers have motifs on them. Does anyone have any ideas? Many thanks, Aylwen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 7 14:13:30 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l47IDUR8026523 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 14:13:30 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l47IDGY7026323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 May 2007 14:13:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l47ICfuA072708 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 May 2007 12:12:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l47ICXsv073318; Mon, 7 May 2007 12:12:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.236]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l47ICTMN073257 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 12:12:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aspasia1@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i4so1937945wra for ; Mon, 07 May 2007 11:12:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=owtZ44verZdV84pXtJ4iMW6HExT/KX5ldpXmO/mJgOrCTfHwEIRR39mGsBzvwinzigDQk7rm4fS5VM/yd7Bp6LpE3E2YV8mELwiO+E0EiUE9IpNWQMOzOZfBWTuW086sKRuB72Td/5MbyoaSPC+fkwofuK+LzA5vXKcPPL6/BJU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=V/RkZlg4we1j5VTJTfawkvrNjFuRlAExiQGwFHj1lQjRiFQ9mkRYD6yj/+fSakfpJWAOlgW7AvB19IqljMG16Ld02f+oj0itsD5crdjEFaSIj3pmeQXTL1p96y1OZbxwWWUfz2dEZ0Z6jGCbxDyyh916umDpB0imjncfKGKkGfI= Received: by 10.114.137.2 with SMTP id k2mr1768736wad.1178561547678; Mon, 07 May 2007 11:12:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.158.20 with HTTP; Mon, 7 May 2007 11:12:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 14:12:27 -0400 From: "Bonnie Booker" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery In-Reply-To: <284164.20218.qm@web81115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <284164.20218.qm@web81115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1dc549b7-a334-4609-90d2-9905d4431334 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 463F6C3C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 07 May 2007 14:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO That would be another string altogether. "Let's try embroidered cuff." On 5/6/07, Lynn Roth wrote: > I have a question regarding Blackwork. How do you embroider on a cuff? If you make a chemise and want to do blackwork on a cuff whats the best wa y to do it? Lynn > >-- Aspasia Moonwind _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 7 14:31:21 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l47IVLx4027245 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 14:31:21 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l47IV6kK021016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 May 2007 14:31:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l47IUIeo075254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 May 2007 12:30:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l47IUDdH089746; Mon, 7 May 2007 12:30:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.236]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l47IUBGI089700 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 12:30:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aspasia1@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id m7so1802866nzf for ; Mon, 07 May 2007 11:30:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=ryNPysISOiK/73AMC1nA23xwd8JiQ/ku7Ndhcr0uxOvdcE7dlp1xH2XXgHgJdHh7bWIdV1x4TSaWFRj1zkjAeePsyxNJthdG46PJCwMmaOXhbCeyjWUIHkACNOzPYupx1zss1vZnTI/BkiX/kye8EXilDHMmDzJOuarg865J30Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=IemDqB7GA0CpglMbHtjMvLEkbka8Nhd06xpiy0xl6AUknjnO3587NKuk8O0q6VeKne0mVepu136ZEVeClh4rACLbqDqkOTYqQsuLQuMYZsZKBfH5BX4kLwdfT/ToJP6qCA+YL1JbqfI2vZIJnSb0h/C0koU3bgV1roSISk3XPx4= Received: by 10.115.78.1 with SMTP id f1mr304405wal.1178562610872; Mon, 07 May 2007 11:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.158.20 with HTTP; Mon, 7 May 2007 11:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 14:30:10 -0400 From: "Bonnie Booker" To: "Historical Costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Embroidered cuff X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: fe627cd7-70fb-4166-8409-0690e4a52bfe X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463F706A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 07 May 2007 14:31:10 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO have a question regarding Blackwork. How do you embroider on a cuff? If you make a chemise and want to do blackwork on a cuff whats the best wa y to do it? Lynn Embroidering a cuff depends on what kind of cuff you are doing. As we were talking about Blackwork I presume you are talking about counted patterns. I measure the wrist and add an inch. Then I decide how wide I want the cuff, usually about 2 ". I draw this with a pencil on linen, careful to follow the line of the thread of the linen. If it is hard to see, I draw a thread, measure 2" then draw another thread. This way I know it is straight. I count the pattern and divide be the number of threads. If the design is 10 spaces high, for example, and I want to fill 1" which is say 49 threads I round it off to 5 threads per stitch. It will come out slightly larger than 1", but works. This is ONLY for ADVANCED embroiders. However, for a beginner, I would say use the waste canvas you can get at most hobby stores. They are much easier to work with. You baste them over the area as a guide. Work the design. You can also do a sleeve without a cuff this way. I then cut out the cuff and proceed as usual. For a collar I do the same, draw in pencil, embroider, then cut out. I work then on scrap linen and run water soluable (school glue) around the edges so it doesn't unravel. For a sleeve without a cuff, I finish the sleeve first if there is it is large enough. If not, I at least sew down far enough to make sure the design matches up. -- Aspasia Moonwind _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 7 16:10:27 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l47KAQic030814 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 16:10:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l47KA9bh018678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 May 2007 16:10:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l47K7lKa089065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 May 2007 14:07:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l47K7aZ3082832; Mon, 7 May 2007 14:07:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32710.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32710.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.254]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l47K7VL5082665 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 14:07:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 5252 invoked by uid 60001); 7 May 2007 20:07:25 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=mVjEiux2pvyZg6L3joqTlG3NK2mkHek6ZHCt+EbYs8It5yMv9G5wWaBXV4IxtaRsyI0yFjeRJtQhu1klatSnicGgd6c86mV0OIkh9PK2RXJbHCP0Uax2YAYhi9TkqqJEZSuHPkbN0CTVBi1WTgeXU/2ttfrIul83PU9DDdHy9vg=; X-YMail-OSG: 4XvnA80VM1ke4avWL89Df_URFy8fDJZUJSqLEQWfjF5clgK4XAyPQznj17gdwFw7E33Vq69fyg-- Received: from [208.179.44.218] by web32710.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 May 2007 13:07:25 PDT Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 13:07:25 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20070507152501.82519.qmail@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <459364.5073.qm@web32710.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=17% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Embroirdered cuff [was Medieval embroidery] X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: fc00fa5e-1802-438e-add4-d208b418cb09 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 463F87A1.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 07 May 2007 16:10:16 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO --- MaggiRos wrote: > You have a cuff pattern, right? So you trace it > onto the fabric, then cut around it, big enough to > let > you work it in your embroidery frame or hoop. When > you're finished, cut out only the pattern shape. Plus the seam allowance of course! Maggiros _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 7 19:24:27 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l47NOQZ4003297 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 19:24:27 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l47NOAB3009536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 May 2007 19:24:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l47NMLjF014243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 May 2007 17:22:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l47NMGIM043662; Mon, 7 May 2007 17:22:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net (ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net [166.102.165.166]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l47IlOk8006727 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 12:47:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net ([162.40.179.214]) by ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20070507184721.GEON3783.ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net@ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net> for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 13:47:21 -0500 Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.214]) by ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20070507184721.XUUU6757.ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 13:47:21 -0500 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 13:47:03 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: RE: [h-cost]Authentic fabric widths Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Message-Id: <20070507184721.XUUU6757.ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=38% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 37becb62-9102-4008-a37d-4fb7fbd1947d X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 463FB51A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 07 May 2007 19:24:16 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Since we got on this topic, I would like to recommend: Cardon, Dominique. La draperie au Moyen Age: essor d'une grande industrie europe enne. Paris: CNRS Ed, 1999. Paper. ISBN: 227105592X OCLC: 50663845 It contains some wonderful tables for cloth widths and lengths produced in southwestern Europe (primarily France & Spain) organized by production center and century. It is in French, unfortunately (for those of us linguistically challenged). There is much else of interest also. Beth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 7 22:08:20 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4828K3p007107 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 22:08:20 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48282Fi003797 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 May 2007 22:08:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4826fs2032756 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 May 2007 20:06:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4826Zbb050543; Mon, 7 May 2007 20:06:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s40.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s40.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.176]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4826Vwb050436 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 20:06:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.26]) by bay0-omc2-s40.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Mon, 7 May 2007 19:06:25 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 7 May 2007 19:06:25 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 70.56.178.22 by BAY133-DAV16.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 08 May 2007 02:06:21 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.56.178.22] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "WickedFrau" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 19:06:04 -0700 Message-ID: <001601c79115$6f0b70f0$0501a8c0@Laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AceRFRlhpKcEeY4gSlizLaJ6Aozy/QAADnZw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 May 2007 02:06:25.0802 (UTC) FILETIME=[7BA3C6A0:01C79115] X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a02f39fb-eee3-45f7-a873-4ae5ddfc39d2 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 463FDB83.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 07 May 2007 22:08:09 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO While poking around, I found this picture, and was a little surprised to see what the fellow on the left was doing next to the dining room table. http://tinyurl.com/29t36b In an attempt to assure myself of what I thought I was seeing, I thought I would look it up on Bildindex since sometimes they have a zoom feature. To my surprise, I found this copy, missing the "action." I'd be curious to know when this "adjustment" was made. http://tinyurl.com/2ptvcp I know this is probably one of those morality paintings like gluttony, but did people really pee at the table??? I knew things with respect to bodily functions were pretty public, but sheesh! Sheesh! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 7 23:35:18 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l483ZI65010098 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 23:35:18 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l483Z1ge014902 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 May 2007 23:35:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l483XB7a043269 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 May 2007 21:33:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l483X6Np004583; Mon, 7 May 2007 21:33:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf3.socket.net (mf3k.socket.net [216.106.88.98]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l483X2A8004546 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 21:33:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf3.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5BF533F014 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 22:33:02 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 22:33:20 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: e3c55656-8e95-4984-acbd-85895b135b14 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463FEFE5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 07 May 2007 23:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Where did you find the first pic? as I think it is not the original but an altered picture. Kind of like the picture of Henry VIII instead of holding a glove is holding a roasted turkey leg or an Italian painting of a grandfather and grandson where the grandfather has a bulbous nose and they put a fly on it. The hand is more incline towards the hand on the back of a chair then pissing in a pot. De -----Original Message----- While poking around, I found this picture, and was a little surprised to see what the fellow on the left was doing next to the dining room table. http://tinyurl.com/29t36b In an attempt to assure myself of what I thought I was seeing, I thought I would look it up on Bildindex since sometimes they have a zoom feature. To my surprise, I found this copy, missing the "action." I'd be curious to know when this "adjustment" was made. http://tinyurl.com/2ptvcp I know this is probably one of those morality paintings like gluttony, but did people really pee at the table??? I knew things with respect to bodily functions were pretty public, but sheesh! Sheesh! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 00:14:11 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l484EBtB011691 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 00:14:11 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4849GYJ006927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 00:14:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4848eqk047176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 7 May 2007 22:08:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4848cRC023647; Mon, 7 May 2007 22:08:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4848YAU023613 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 22:08:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15040 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 23:08:58 -0500 Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 23:08:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7921ffe9-c965-4c0b-9729-fd127ed61e57 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 463FF7EC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 00:14:01 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Mon, 7 May 2007, otsisto wrote: > Where did you find the first pic? as I think it is not the original > but an altered picture. Kind of like the picture of Henry VIII instead > of holding a glove is holding a roasted turkey leg or an Italian > painting of a grandfather and grandson where the grandfather has a > bulbous nose and they put a fly on it. The "clean" painting has muddy areas where the pot was, and the man's garments are still pulled open and turned up inexplicably. The bawdy version is the older one. But that would suggest that the repainting was very recent -- since modern color photography -- or we would not have both images. Unlikely, that. Two possibilities I can think of: -- The alterations were made only for a photographic version, not on the painting itself, possibly photoshopped on. I have seen such bowdlerizing done for pictures that are, say, reproduced in children's books or other venues where naughty bits are not acceptable. Somehow, then, bildindex picked up the doctored version by mistake, but the owning museum shows the correct image. -- They are two different paintings, one being a copy of the first (or both copies of another), and only one was repainted. It was actually quite common for artists, or their workshops, to produce multiple versions of a popular scene; you see this as far back as the 15th century Flemish artists. This would be a very good copy -- it seems identical -- except for possibly the hands of the fiddler (both left and right hands) which seem a bit different. The color overall is muddier, too, which may reflect worse deterioration in this particular painting, or may just reflect the photo quality or the scan. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 02:51:47 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l486pkHs002280 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 02:51:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l486pTeh028538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 02:51:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l486oVn2062059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 00:50:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l486oQIw005363; Tue, 8 May 2007 00:50:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mf4g.socket.net [216.106.88.204]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l486oOph005344 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 00:50:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 83834382AE for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 01:50:23 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 01:50:42 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=23% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 564df242-3402-4709-8ce2-7e9fbcde69c8 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46401DF1.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 02:51:36 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Well for one, a man would not hold his "thang" like that to pee. His coat may be turned back but his vest isn't. And the way his body is angled his "thang" must be somewhat long. Most paintings that I have seen from this period are more like the chair painting then the clean concise piss pot one but I have seen exceptions to common painting styles in other eras so perhaps the piss pot could be an exception for this era. Anyone know who the artist is? De -----Original Message----- But that would suggest that the repainting was very recent -- since modern color photography -- or we would not have both images. Unlikely, that. Two possibilities I can think of: -- The alterations were made only for a photographic version, not on the painting itself, possibly photoshopped on. I have seen such bowdlerizing done for pictures that are, say, reproduced in children's books or other venues where naughty bits are not acceptable. Somehow, then, bildindex picked up the doctored version by mistake, but the owning museum shows the correct image. -- They are two different paintings, one being a copy of the first (or both copies of another), and only one was repainted. It was actually quite common for artists, or their workshops, to produce multiple versions of a popular scene; you see this as far back as the 15th century Flemish artists. This would be a very good copy -- it seems identical -- except for possibly the hands of the fiddler (both left and right hands) which seem a bit different. The color overall is muddier, too, which may reflect worse deterioration in this particular painting, or may just reflect the photo quality or the scan. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 09:02:54 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48D2svE002522 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 09:02:54 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48D2Ojf025686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 09:02:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l48D1o9q099334 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 07:01:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48D1i2j009083; Tue, 8 May 2007 07:01:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cgp.netins.net (f2phy.netins.net [167.142.229.65]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48D1eCw009022 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 07:01:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from landofoz@netins.net) X-netINS-MPP: scanned Received: from [67.55.167.82] (account landofoz@netins.net HELO denise8541f2db) by cgpf2.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.13) with ESMTPA id 1305767853 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 May 2007 08:01:36 -0500 Message-ID: <00ec01c79171$04ed6ff0$52a73743@denise8541f2db> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 08:01:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: dfdd467c-9a65-423a-a42b-9de570d39ebf X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464074E0.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! 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Denise _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 09:16:52 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48DGpX3003238 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 09:16:51 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48DGLM7024490 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 09:16:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l48DFsAw001352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 07:15:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48DFs8e019434; Tue, 8 May 2007 07:15:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep34.mail.dk (fep34.mail.dk [80.160.76.198]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48DFo3N019288 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 07:15:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep42.mail.dk ([195.41.46.225]) by fep34.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070508131545.DIIJ11547.fep34.mail.dk@fep42.mail.dk> for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 15:15:45 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.47]) by fep42.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070508131544.BYWZ1153.fep42.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 15:15:44 +0200 Message-ID: <002e01c79172$fea8c0c0$2f43a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00ec01c79171$04ed6ff0$52a73743@denise8541f2db> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 15:15:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep42.mail.dk from [80.161.67.47] at Tue, 8 May 2007 15:15:40 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=18% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7af62c06-bcc6-4b98-8e9e-714817e87dd9 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 46407825.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! 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Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting > >> Well for one, a man would not hold his "thang" like that to pee. > > > No, but an artist would certainly paint it that way if he wanted to show > the act, but not the anatomy. > > > > > Denise > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 09:16:57 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48DGv88003250 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 09:16:57 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48DChWX006385 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 09:16:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l48DCHFj000812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 07:12:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48DCGvJ016759; Tue, 8 May 2007 07:12:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48DCCKY016676 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 07:12:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=L4gGaf4kKmDkTu0Z3d7KsdfcieuVkoxpYn5mBe11wRqJXNdl9qSa3Fi5DKjtCTAu; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.100.124.1] (helo=boris) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HlPU7-00058Y-Ka for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 May 2007 09:12:07 -0400 Message-ID: <008a01c79173$4af6bfe0$0200a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00ec01c79171$04ed6ff0$52a73743@denise8541f2db> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 06:17:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd4878bf75ce18b83ef5984587a06a86519f08a8bb3e8e732a70350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.100.124.1 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: be5529ec-15f7-4a1c-9462-64c4455d0f01 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4640774B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 09:16:46 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting > >> Well for one, a man would not hold his "thang" like that to pee. > > > No, but an artist would certainly paint it that way if he wanted to show > the act, but not the anatomy. > > Denise I've also seen men holding themselves exactly like that when they were trying to be somewhat discreet. Melusine (who lived in Paris many years ago when there were still pissoirs on the streetcorners) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 09:21:44 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48DLiKH003508 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 09:21:44 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48DLSSf019258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 09:21:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l48DL4nD001985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 07:21:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48DL2Lp023344; Tue, 8 May 2007 07:21:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48DKwdM023213 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 07:21:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=KY6/Kp3CWhoYGYO2g+Slqb66Gn5WBOkCiHWnoF7ED/V2uKB70ZhYRxwOuPM0FMe/; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.100.124.1] (helo=boris) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HlPca-0004tE-SM for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 May 2007 09:20:53 -0400 Message-ID: <009701c79174$84137510$0200a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00ec01c79171$04ed6ff0$52a73743@denise8541f2db> <002e01c79172$fea8c0c0$2f43a150@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 06:26:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd48e03e34977f2cb7c14e5c2d4292d14b5a4e508857176a6fc1350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.100.124.1 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a98f1925-2ad6-4a80-a08b-2f672f16e9a2 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 46407958.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 09:21:33 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting > Another note, > The young gentleman in the foreground, dressed in yellow - is he wearing > womens shoes or is it his own? > Just that i se a big difference for the other gentlemans shoes, and the > yellow gentlemans shoes, looks very like the maids shoes on the right. > > Bjarne I've not found a great deal of difference between mens and womens shoes during the early 17th century, especially for indoor shoes. Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 09:31:45 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48DVijp004005 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 09:31:44 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48DVRTJ004602 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 09:31:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l48DPA6Z002688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 07:25:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48DP9nR026751; Tue, 8 May 2007 07:25:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kline-station.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48DP4i2026688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 07:25:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline-station.thibault.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l48DIrYH009718 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 09:18:53 -0400 Received: from [192.168.10.250] (192.168.10.250 [192.168.10.250]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 08 May 2007 09:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <46407A2D.8060909@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 09:25:01 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting References: <00ec01c79171$04ed6ff0$52a73743@denise8541f2db> <002e01c79172$fea8c0c0$2f43a150@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <002e01c79172$fea8c0c0$2f43a150@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f1eca267-045c-49ec-8e2c-777aac9ebe1d X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 46407BB0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 09:31:33 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Another note, > The young gentleman in the foreground, dressed in yellow - is he > wearing womens shoes or is it his own? > Just that i se a big difference for the other gentlemans shoes, and > the yellow gentlemans shoes, looks very like the maids shoes on the > right. The man in the background with the red hosen has similar heeled shoes (under the table). cv (irregularly reading the list) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 09:58:09 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48Dw99I010637 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 09:58:09 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48Dqtue014537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 09:57:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l48DqHg3006776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 07:52:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48DqFkH047551; Tue, 8 May 2007 07:52:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep30.mail.dk (fep30.mail.dk [80.160.76.194]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48DK6eM022596 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 07:20:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep44.mail.dk ([195.41.46.227]) by fep30.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070508132002.GNR5755.fep30.mail.dk@fep44.mail.dk> for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 15:20:02 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.47]) by fep44.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070508132002.BEEQ1161.fep44.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 15:20:02 +0200 Message-ID: <003601c79173$99eb7500$2f43a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 15:20:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep44.mail.dk from [80.161.67.47] at Tue, 8 May 2007 15:20:01 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=20% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] womans mid 18th century hair cape X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f84109fe-ad91-45fe-b72f-34f46fa28131 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464080B7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 09:57:59 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I have tryed to find a picture with a cut of how the womens hair capes in mid 18th century was cut. I cant find any. Does anybody know any online pictures for that? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 10:03:52 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48E3qVJ011589 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 10:03:52 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48E3ZVW024096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 10:03:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l48E2t26008175 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 08:02:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48E2oWC055723; Tue, 8 May 2007 08:02:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.23]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48E2k4f055586 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 08:02:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAAMfQEbUSnILk2dsb2JhbACPegIBAQcIBgcFHw Received: from [80.41.109.151] (port=2890 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-relay-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.66 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HlQH1-000FMx-ES for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 May 2007 15:02:39 +0100 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20070508150134.03743820@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 15:02:39 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] womans mid 18th century hair cape In-Reply-To: <003601c79173$99eb7500$2f43a150@CPQ21932199711> References: <003601c79173$99eb7500$2f43a150@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=48% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: cdead285-987b-4343-b249-6b651935609b X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46408337.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 10:03:41 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At 14:20 08/05/2007, you wrote: >I have tryed to find a picture with a cut of how the womens hair >capes in mid 18th century was cut. I cant find any. >Does anybody know any online pictures for that? > >Bjarne The only one I know of is this one of Mme de Pompadour at her Toilette, by Francois Boucher. Sorry about the long link - don't know how to shorten it! http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.wellesley.edu/WomensReview/archive/2003/03/pompa4.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.wellesley.edu/WomensReview/archive/2003/03/highlt.html&h=280&w=224&sz=24&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=x7MgeJIZg1L1gM:&tbnh=114&tbnw=91&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMme%2Bde%2BPompadour%2Bin%2Bher%2BToilette%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 10:27:08 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48ER7Xt014699 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 10:27:07 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48EQpfP010511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 10:26:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l48EQSUi011505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 08:26:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48EQRdr077322; Tue, 8 May 2007 08:26:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep31.mail.dk (fep31.mail.dk [80.160.76.195]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48EQMVO077204 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 08:26:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep41.mail.dk ([195.41.46.142]) by fep31.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070508142617.GWTZ28972.fep31.mail.dk@fep41.mail.dk> for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 16:26:17 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.47]) by fep41.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070508142617.BCOG1370.fep41.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 16:26:17 +0200 Message-ID: <000401c7917c$dc764860$2f43a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003601c79173$99eb7500$2f43a150@CPQ21932199711> <7.0.1.0.2.20070508150134.03743820@suziclarke.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] womans mid 18th century hair cape Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 16:26:23 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep41.mail.dk from [80.161.67.47] at Tue, 8 May 2007 16:26:13 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=20% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: eb8c871d-d7bb-40a9-94b6-4bd0eb01a172 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 464088AB.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 10:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi, Sorry i have not ben precise. I dont meant a cape to protect. What i ment was the small linnen "hats" ladies wore in mid century. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] womans mid 18th century hair cape > At 14:20 08/05/2007, you wrote: >>I have tryed to find a picture with a cut of how the womens hair capes in >>mid 18th century was cut. I cant find any. >>Does anybody know any online pictures for that? >> >>Bjarne > > > The only one I know of is this one of Mme de Pompadour at her Toilette, by > Francois Boucher. Sorry about the long link - don't know how to shorten > it! > > http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.wellesley.edu/WomensReview/archive/2003/03/pompa4.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.wellesley.edu/WomensReview/archive/2003/03/highlt.html&h=280&w=224&sz=24&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=x7MgeJIZg1L1gM:&tbnh=114&tbnw=91&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMme%2Bde%2BPompadour%2Bin%2Bher%2BToilette%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG > > > Suzi > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 10:44:57 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48Eivw3016121 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 10:44:57 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48EieFO031668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 10:44:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l48EgEJd014352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 08:42:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48EgAbM091394; Tue, 8 May 2007 08:42:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48Eg6Hi091251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 08:42:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HlQst-0004hf-6I; Tue, 08 May 2007 09:41:47 -0500 Received: from 65.13.105.239 ([65.13.105.239]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Tue, 08 May 2007 10:41:47 -0400 Message-ID: <20070508104147.qp246pa0ipc0oksw@www.goldsword.com> Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 10:41:47 -0400 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/horde/imp/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/horde/imp X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: aeb4f801-f809-47e7-9e56-4f7b7775a7f4 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 46408CD8.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 10:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Quoting Robin Netherton : > > On Mon, 7 May 2007, otsisto wrote: > >> Where did you find the first pic? as I think it is not the original >> but an altered picture. Kind of like the picture of Henry VIII instead >> of holding a glove is holding a roasted turkey leg or an Italian >> painting of a grandfather and grandson where the grandfather has a >> bulbous nose and they put a fly on it. > > The "clean" painting has muddy areas where the pot was, and the man's > garments are still pulled open and turned up inexplicably. The bawdy > version is the older one. > And you can tell where the "chair" back that he's supposedly leaning on was added later -- it doesn't fit well. susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 11:23:15 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48FNFYv022734 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 11:23:15 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48FJU14002298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 11:23:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l48FDfZP018918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 09:13:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48FDc8W020181; Tue, 8 May 2007 09:13:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-36.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.36]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48FDYLd020112 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 09:13:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3B50CE567 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 10:13:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <464093D8.7070206@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 10:14:32 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5a6dc658-632c-4ed4-99c5-5db8360482b3 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 46409502.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 11:23:04 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > > The "clean" painting has muddy areas where the pot was, and the man's > garments are still pulled open and turned up inexplicably. The bawdy > version is the older one. > > But that would suggest that the repainting was very recent -- since modern > color photography -- or we would not have both images. Unlikely, that. Two > possibilities I can think of: > "Interieur mit fröhlicher Gesellschaft" (Interior with Happy Gathering) Buytewech, Willem Pietersz 1622/1624 Or, the bowdlerized version was recently restored. That might also account for the brighter colors of the one version. On a quick search I wasn't able to find anything about the painting, though. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 11:37:20 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48FbK9q023611 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 11:37:20 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48FZpx6008036 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 11:37:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l48FYqYv022820 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 09:34:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48FYjHQ040636; Tue, 8 May 2007 09:34:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.115]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48FYGmT040149 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 09:34:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from khanson@kc.rr.com) Received: from ms-mss-01 (ms-mss-01-smtp-a [10.15.8.21]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l48FXpMj023674 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 10:33:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rdc-kc.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ms-mss-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.10 (built Dec 26 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JHQ00GCNB8W5J@ms-mss-01.rdc-kc.rr.com> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 May 2007 10:34:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [10.15.6.153] (Forwarded-For: [168.137.100.21]) by ms-mss-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (mshttpd); Tue, 08 May 2007 10:34:08 -0500 Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 10:34:08 -0500 From: khanson@kc.rr.com In-reply-to: <7.0.1.0.2.20070508150134.03743820@suziclarke.co.uk> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 2.10 (built Dec 26 2005) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal References: <003601c79173$99eb7500$2f43a150@CPQ21932199711> <7.0.1.0.2.20070508150134.03743820@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Birbari book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8c9fef20-98fd-4b74-8ca6-cf3c1fbaee17 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 464098D7.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 11:37:09 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO If anyone is looking for 'Dress in Italian Painting' by Birbari, it's up on Alibris now for $215.95 http://www.alibris.com/search/detail.cfm?bid=9089687689 Talia ----- Original Message ----- From: Suzi Clarke Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2007 9:06 am Subject: Re: [h-cost] womans mid 18th century hair cape To: Historical Costume > At 14:20 08/05/2007, you wrote: > >I have tryed to find a picture with a cut of how the womens hair > >capes in mid 18th century was cut. I cant find any. > >Does anybody know any online pictures for that? > > > >Bjarne > > > The only one I know of is this one of Mme de Pompadour at her > Toilette, by Francois Boucher. Sorry about the long link - don't > know > how to shorten it! > > http://images.google.co.uk/imgres? imgurl=http://www.wellesley.edu/WomensReview/archive/2003/03/pompa4.jpg& imgrefurl=http://www.wellesley.edu/WomensReview/archive/2003/03/highlt.h tml&h=280&w=224&sz=24&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=x7MgeJIZg1L1gM:&tbnh=114&tbnw= 91&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMme%2Bde%2BPompadour%2Bin%2Bher%2BToilette%26gbv% 3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG > > > Suzi > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 11:51:24 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48FpOlr024449 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 11:51:24 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48FlY0n013129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 11:51:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l48FgQXF024018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 09:42:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48FgPCN048135; Tue, 8 May 2007 09:42:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from navgw2.mccc.edu (navgw2.mccc.edu [198.133.170.232]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l48FgKOW047978 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 09:42:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw2.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.1.0.19) with SMTP id M2007050811421401212 for ; Tue, 08 May 2007 11:42:14 -0400 Received: from TH103A ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l48Fg6nb001923 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 11:42:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Kate Pinner" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 11:42:01 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 329c0369-3ad3-481d-b148-f5639764d4a3 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 46409B96.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 11:51:13 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Has anyone contacted the museum? Kate 609-570-3584 -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Dawn Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 11:15 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Robin Netherton wrote: >=20 > The "clean" painting has muddy areas where the pot was, and the man's > garments are still pulled open and turned up inexplicably. The bawdy > version is the older one. >=20 > But that would suggest that the repainting was very recent -- since modern > color photography -- or we would not have both images. Unlikely, that. Two > possibilities I can think of: >=20 "Interieur mit fr=F6hlicher Gesellschaft" (Interior with Happy Gathering) Buytewech, Willem Pietersz 1622/1624 Or, the bowdlerized version was recently restored. That might also=20 account for the brighter colors of the one version. On a quick search I=20 wasn't able to find anything about the painting, though. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 11:51:32 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48FpV5a024456 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 11:51:31 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48Fm1Xm022719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 11:51:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l48FiPOn024420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 09:44:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48FiOqB049975; Tue, 8 May 2007 09:44:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s4.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s4.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.76]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48FiLBg049864 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 09:44:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.17]) by bay0-omc1-s4.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 8 May 2007 08:43:05 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 8 May 2007 08:43:04 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 70.56.178.22 by BAY133-DAV7.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 08 May 2007 15:43:00 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.56.178.22] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 08:43:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 8 May 2007 08:43:14 -0700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 May 2007 15:43:04.0959 (UTC) FILETIME=[9169C8F0:01C79187] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: cd62cc24-3556-44df-b44b-3da7fbea7aca X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46409BB1.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 11:51:21 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO As someone already pointed out, it is a William Buytewech painting. The = "orginal" (the one where if you actually look closely, you can see the = "tip of the anatomy.") is at Kaiser-Friedrich-Museums, Berlin. The one = on Bildindex attributes it to the same artist and to the same museum. =20 The only other painting I remember showing this sort of thing is a = Breughel - (a younger as I recall) of a woman squatting in the woods. I = am sure it is more common than we see. I guess on of the big French = palaces....(Versailles?) didn't originally have any "bathrooms" and I = recall hearing often of folks relieving themselves in stairways and = fireplaces. Sg --- Original Message -----=20 From: WickedFrau=20 To: 'Historical Costume'=20 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 7:06 PM Subject: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting While poking around, I found this picture, and was a little surprised = to see what the fellow on the left was doing next to the dining room table. http://tinyurl.com/29t36b =20 In an attempt to assure myself of what I thought I was seeing, I = thought I would look it up on Bildindex since sometimes they have a zoom = feature. To my surprise, I found this copy, missing the "action." I'd be curious = to know when this "adjustment" was made. http://tinyurl.com/2ptvcp =20 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 12:05:32 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48G5Wg8025196 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 12:05:32 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48G1qIG029944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 12:05:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l48G1EjL027005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 10:01:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48G19fu064945; Tue, 8 May 2007 10:01:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.32]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48G130O064786 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 10:01:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAABI8QEbUSnIMk2dsb2JhbACPewIBAQcIBgcFHw Received: from [80.41.109.151] (port=3335 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-relay-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.66 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HlS5a-000E9N-D0 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 May 2007 16:58:58 +0100 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20070508165517.037440f8@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 16:58:58 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=49% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: da27cbab-8483-4ba3-80ad-ae4ae6ac70cf X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 46409EF0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 12:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At 16:43 08/05/2007, you wrote: >As someone already pointed out, it is a William Buytewech >painting. The "orginal" (the one where if you actually look >closely, you can see the "tip of the anatomy.") is at >Kaiser-Friedrich-Museums, Berlin. The one on Bildindex attributes it >to the same artist and to the same museum. > >The only other painting I remember showing this sort of thing is a >Breughel - (a younger as I recall) of a woman squatting in the >woods. I am sure it is more common than we see. I guess on of the >big French palaces....(Versailles?) didn't originally have any >"bathrooms" and I recall hearing often of folks relieving themselves >in stairways and fireplaces. There is also a gentleman relieving himself by sitting on a window sill, with his backside outside, and p***ing into the river below. Can't unfortunately remember the name or the actual painting, (the artist is, I think, Heironymus Bosch,) but it is in the bottom left hand side. The gentleman is not one of his grotesques, but apparently an "ordinary" person. Daft what you DO remember, isn't it?! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 13:04:12 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48H4C4h028317 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 13:04:12 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48H3u72025089 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 13:04:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l48H2nEk037053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 11:02:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48H2g9B024594; Tue, 8 May 2007 11:02:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48H2bOE024476 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 11:02:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17452 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 12:03:01 -0500 Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 12:03:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting In-Reply-To: <464093D8.7070206@reddawn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f4bf463f-37bc-4083-b8d0-970afdaa7666 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4640AD7C.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 13:04:01 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Tue, 8 May 2007, Dawn wrote: > Or, the bowdlerized version was recently restored. That might also > account for the brighter colors of the one version. On a quick search > I wasn't able to find anything about the painting, though. Oh, yes, that makes the most sense! There were many such paintings that were made "proper" in past centuries. And the color change is very noticeable. Must have been a funny story of what they found when they restored it, too. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 13:34:00 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48HXv8t029820 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 13:33:57 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48HXgHr019977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 13:33:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l48HWsxx042475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 11:32:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48HWnLs054311; Tue, 8 May 2007 11:32:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kline-station.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48HWdbn054124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 11:32:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline-station.thibault.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l48HQR5Y021784 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 13:26:27 -0400 Received: from [192.168.10.250] (192.168.10.250 [192.168.10.250]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 08 May 2007 13:26:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4640B435.8000902@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 13:32:37 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7f29d5a3-ef90-4f77-a208-2de13bba3602 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4640B476.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 13:33:47 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO A different age, to be sure! I suppose the servants would supply a vessel and then take it off to the gardens or wherever to deal with it. I am reminded of the Castillian (iirc) standard nativity figurine, of the man relieving himself (don't know if those articles passed through here this past Xmas; there were several about him.) -- "If you claim that something is true, I will examine the evidence which supports your claim; if you have no evidence, I will not accept that what you say is true and I will think you a foolish and gullible person for believing it so" -- Dan Gardner, The Ottawa Citizen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 14:34:19 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48IYJDf032680 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 14:34:19 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48IVPZi028021 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 14:34:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l48IPV9J052579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 12:25:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48IPRT9007769; Tue, 8 May 2007 12:25:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf5.socket.net (mf5b.socket.net [216.106.26.210]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48IPMt0007704 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 12:25:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf5.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 67CEA35BEB for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 13:25:20 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 13:25:40 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <464093D8.7070206@reddawn.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=19% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 4640C1FD.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 14:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Similar shoes, might be the same model. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Willem_Pietersz._Buytewech_002.jpg similar shoes http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Willem_Pietersz._Buytewech_003.jpg http://www.museumbredius.nl/schilders/pics/buytewech.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 15:35:23 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48JZNah003279 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 15:35:23 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48JUWSa022370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 15:35:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l48JTwPT062997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 13:29:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48JTsh0068523; Tue, 8 May 2007 13:29:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep35.mail.dk (fep35.mail.dk [80.160.76.199]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48JTpkA068399 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 13:29:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep43.mail.dk ([195.41.46.226]) by fep35.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070508192945.PNRL2479.fep35.mail.dk@fep43.mail.dk> for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 21:29:45 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.164.110.194]) by fep43.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070508192945.BOPJ1148.fep43.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 21:29:45 +0200 Message-ID: <001001c791a7$41d802f0$c26ea450@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 21:29:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep43.mail.dk from [80.164.110.194] at Tue, 8 May 2007 21:29:39 +0200 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=20% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] hair linnen cape X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 067343bd-a3d0-4a3b-a557-4204cfa5b5f4 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4640CFD8.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 15:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO This is the type of cape i want to make. I dont know if my word of cape for this garment is right? I would like to make it with cotton laces and ad some lappets. Should the lappets sit in the back or in the sides? http://www.allposters.com/-sp/The-Seamstress-Or-Young-Woman-Working-Posters_i1345086_.htm Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 15:36:41 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48Jaf30003359 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 15:36:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48JaQtN031312 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 15:36:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l48JZqgM064319 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 13:35:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48JZpHt073988; Tue, 8 May 2007 13:35:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from navgw2.mccc.edu (navgw2.mccc.edu [198.133.170.232]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l48JZlCd073877 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 13:35:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw2.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.1.0.19) with SMTP id M2007050815353705455 for ; Tue, 08 May 2007 15:35:37 -0400 Received: from TH103A ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l48JZXLr028049 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 15:35:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "Kate Pinner" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] hair linnen cape Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 15:35:28 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 40981a6f-bb28-4806-9661-fdd4c0f20362 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 4640D13A.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 15:36:30 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I think you mean cap -- no'e' Kate 609-570-3584 -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 3:30 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] hair linnen cape This is the type of cape i want to make. I dont know if my word of cape for this garment is right? I would like to make it with cotton laces and ad some lappets. Should the lappets sit in the back or in the sides? http://www.allposters.com/-sp/The-Seamstress-Or-Young-Woman-Working-Post ers_i1345086_.htm Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 15:49:25 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48JnPmR004141 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 15:49:25 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48JiPHN027465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 15:49:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l48JeaaY065012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 13:40:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48JeYp0077918; Tue, 8 May 2007 13:40:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep31.mail.dk (fep31.mail.dk [80.160.76.195]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48JeTrW077775 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 13:40:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep47.mail.dk ([195.41.46.230]) by fep31.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070508194024.TURA28972.fep31.mail.dk@fep47.mail.dk> for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 21:40:24 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.164.110.194]) by fep47.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070508194024.TXJG20303.fep47.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 21:40:24 +0200 Message-ID: <001701c791a8$c1b02bf0$c26ea450@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair linnen cape Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 21:40:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep47.mail.dk from [80.164.110.194] at Tue, 8 May 2007 21:40:22 +0200 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=20% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 0482d7c5-bb9f-4a9e-b560-db25c35bbcef X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 4640D319.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 15:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Yes off cause, cap it is, Thanks a lot! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Pinner" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 9:35 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] hair linnen cape >I think you mean cap -- no'e' > > Kate > 609-570-3584 > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 3:30 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] hair linnen cape > > This is the type of cape i want to make. I dont know if my word of cape > for > this garment is right? > I would like to make it with cotton laces and ad some lappets. Should > the > lappets sit in the back or in the sides? > > http://www.allposters.com/-sp/The-Seamstress-Or-Young-Woman-Working-Post > ers_i1345086_.htm > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 16:33:50 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48KXnjc006676 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 16:33:49 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48KXYjE009326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 16:33:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l48KX1Ll077240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 14:33:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48KWvg5025747; Tue, 8 May 2007 14:32:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from metis.sjsu.edu (metis.sjsu.edu [130.65.3.15]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48KWoNU025567 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 14:32:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from attrembl@bovil.com) Received: from [130.65.37.190] (sjs-130-65-37-190.sjsu.edu [130.65.37.190]) by metis.sjsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l48KWhav006740 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 13:32:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <61208D71-A159-4BDB-BC9C-47B809FBC9F2@bovil.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Andrew T Trembley Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 13:32:42 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9102fca3-c061-4416-8630-1edd9ba11514 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4640DE9F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 16:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On May 8, 2007, at 8:43 AM, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > The only other painting I remember showing this sort of thing is a > Breughel - (a younger as I recall) of a woman squatting in the > woods. I am sure it is more common than we see. I guess on of the > big French palaces....(Versailles?) didn't originally have any > "bathrooms" and I recall hearing often of folks relieving > themselves in stairways and fireplaces. I wish I could recall the period source that talked about collecting saltpetre (from urine) from church pews... andy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 21:40:33 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l491eX0M022744 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 21:40:33 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l491ZJDd016320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 21:40:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l491YUGo053409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 19:34:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l491YOj4053224; Tue, 8 May 2007 19:34:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l48IQ12P008310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 12:26:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id l48IPqnR024431 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 14:26:00 -0400 Received: from 72.13.239.193 (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Tue, 8 May 2007 14:26:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <52379.72.13.239.193.1178648796.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <464093D8.7070206@reddawn.net> References: <464093D8.7070206@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 14:26:36 -0400 (EDT) From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=20% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A request - was: Ahem-something interesting X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 31f8c1db-712c-4bc0-8b42-1171d523e53d X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 46412557.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 21:40:23 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Is there a link to this painting? Probably in a message in my "in" box at home that I have not gotten to yet? Please, everyone, when discussing paintings or anything else on the web, keep the URL in your note. I do appreciate that people minimize the quoted portion in their reply. But it really helps to keep the link. Even in cases when I've already looked at an image, someone will make a comment that makes me want to look again. Some days are easier than others to stay organized. :-D Thanks! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 21:40:44 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l491eisx022755 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 21:40:44 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l491dbAC031185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 21:40:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l491cu9F054141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 19:38:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l491csoM055843; Tue, 8 May 2007 19:38:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s40.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s40.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.176]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l491coQi055676 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 19:38:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.19]) by bay0-omc2-s40.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 8 May 2007 18:38:45 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 8 May 2007 18:38:45 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 70.56.178.22 by BAY133-DAV9.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 09 May 2007 01:38:43 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.56.178.22] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "WickedFrau" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] hair linnen cape Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 18:38:28 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c791da$be7f99c0$0501a8c0@Laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <001701c791a8$c1b02bf0$c26ea450@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Thread-Index: AceRqOES3l3QffLNQNCTE/wU0g3/7wALxXUg X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 May 2007 01:38:45.0145 (UTC) FILETIME=[C8396090:01C791DA] X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: net.indra.com 1290; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 091ec3b9-43b3-48de-b110-29548ec8ce1a X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 46412659.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 21:40:33 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Here are some links of interest. http://www.csupomona.edu/~plin/women/images/duparc_big.jpg That one is just a slightly better picture of the same painting, Then there is this one. - another image of a similar cap. http://www.ngv.vic.gov.au/collection/international/painting/d/ipa00181.html Not sure what you mean by adding lappets. Is there a reason why you want to make it different? The pleating looks like it is probably made in a "one sized" strip and then attached at various widths to get the shape in front, and the "lappets" on the side. Does that make sense? Sg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 12:41 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair linnen cape Yes off cause, cap it is, Thanks a lot! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Pinner" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 9:35 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] hair linnen cape >I think you mean cap -- no'e' > > Kate > 609-570-3584 > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 3:30 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] hair linnen cape > > This is the type of cape i want to make. I dont know if my word of cape > for > this garment is right? > I would like to make it with cotton laces and ad some lappets. Should > the > lappets sit in the back or in the sides? > > http://www.allposters.com/-sp/The-Seamstress-Or-Young-Woman-Working-Post > ers_i1345086_.htm > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 21:45:29 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l491jThY023049 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 21:45:29 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l491jEnm022159 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 21:45:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l491igFI054747 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 19:44:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l491ifOp058982; Tue, 8 May 2007 19:44:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s38.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s38.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.238]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l491ic9m058877 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 19:44:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.18]) by bay0-omc3-s38.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 8 May 2007 18:44:32 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 8 May 2007 18:44:32 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 70.56.178.22 by BAY133-DAV8.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 09 May 2007 01:44:28 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.56.178.22] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "WickedFrau" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 18:44:14 -0700 Message-ID: <000401c791db$8c56c2b0$0501a8c0@Laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Thread-Index: AceR24wrHDNwaX3ERUKJXYmIJAfq5A== X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 May 2007 01:44:32.0897 (UTC) FILETIME=[97801F10:01C791DB] X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: net.indra.com 1290; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Strange marks after washing new fabric-suggestions? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 6e872aec-99a6-4cae-b07b-d376dfe33ae2 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 464127AA.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 21:45:18 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I bought about 8 yards of linen/rayon blend in a deep purple. Washed it according to instructions, cold water, no chlorine bleach. I used the laundry detergent I always use (ALL) and added some fabric softener to the last rinse. It has done something I've never seen in anything store bought. It had slightly lighter marks all over and then a couple of large blobs of darker stuff. The dark marks almost look like there was oil dropped on it, and the lighter marks perhaps from the fabric softener? I washed another dark blue piece right after, and it is just fine. I am rewashing the purple in synthropol, in hopes that it will fix it. Any other suggestions? I've seen this effect when I have botched a dye job, but not in manufacturer dyed fabric. Thanks, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 23:36:25 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l493aOnl028665 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 23:36:24 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l493a9Uj009976 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 23:36:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l493ZYhR066820 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 21:35:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l493ZULc018713; Tue, 8 May 2007 21:35:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s2.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s2.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.138]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l493ZRCF018628 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 21:35:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.20]) by bay0-omc2-s2.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 8 May 2007 20:35:22 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 8 May 2007 20:35:22 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 70.56.178.22 by BAY133-DAV10.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 09 May 2007 03:35:21 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.56.178.22] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragracetk" To: "'Historical Costume'" , , Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 20:35:06 -0700 Message-ID: <000301c791eb$09b24a90$0501a8c0@Laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Thread-Index: AceR6wmTxtezjgq2T8OUQgIW00oxgQ== X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 May 2007 03:35:22.0339 (UTC) FILETIME=[12E07330:01C791EB] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Shopping for fabric in Germany and Netherlands? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c6251fc5-e11d-49f4-9806-3e4da1d6b06d X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 464141A9.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 23:36:13 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Any recommendations? I'll be there in September. I am planning on visiting "Linen House" Thanks, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 8 23:38:03 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l493c3sP028742 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 23:38:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l493bnfV010161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 May 2007 23:37:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l493bCBw067020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 21:37:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l493bCHW019730; Tue, 8 May 2007 21:37:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s20.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s20.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.92]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l493b9q2019643 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 21:37:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.22]) by bay0-omc1-s20.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 8 May 2007 20:37:04 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 8 May 2007 20:37:04 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 70.56.178.22 by BAY133-DAV12.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 09 May 2007 03:37:00 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.56.178.22] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "WickedFrau" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 20:36:46 -0700 Message-ID: <000301c791eb$45116b20$0501a8c0@Laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Thread-Index: AceR5dbiYAvmWPU4RwyRQjovQkyeVQABWC8g X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 May 2007 03:37:04.0461 (UTC) FILETIME=[4FBF07D0:01C791EB] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=14% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bildindex is in English now! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c757410b-b102-4bc4-a134-d7ff39ac13b0 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 4641420D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 08 May 2007 23:37:53 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO This was brought up on another list. If you have never used this, you should. It is a fabulous website. www.bildindex.de Click on the British flag and then use the Expert Search...you could spend DAYS here! Sg (who has spent days there). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 00:01:11 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4941BZc029704 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 00:01:11 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l493wnqt011815 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 00:01:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l493wU3n069002 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 21:58:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l493wTYK030198; Tue, 8 May 2007 21:58:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp3.america.net (qsmtp3.america.net [69.60.160.246]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l493wPBw030157 for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 21:58:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladymaggie@justinanimator.com) Message-Id: <200705090358.l493wPBw030157@net.indra.com> Received: from [65.125.64.173] (helo=MAX.feccommunications.net) by qsmtp3.america.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1HldJp-0001EU-2S for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 08 May 2007 23:58:25 -0400 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 22:58:16 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Genie Barrett Subject: Re: [h-cost] Strange marks after washing new fabric-suggestions? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 63f5e1a1-7ce9-4082-8ad1-57404d8678c5 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 464146F9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 00:01:01 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At 08:44 PM 5/8/2007, you wrote: >I bought about 8 yards of linen/rayon blend in a deep purple. Washed it >according to instructions, cold water, no chlorine bleach. I used the >laundry detergent I always use (ALL) and added some fabric softener to the >last rinse. It has done something I've never seen in anything store bought. >It had slightly lighter marks all over and then a couple of large blobs of >darker stuff. The dark marks almost look like there was oil dropped on it, >and the lighter marks perhaps from the fabric softener? This happened to me once, with a dark blue. I ended up using it for fighter's garb and linings... Sad, really, since it's a beautiful piece of fabric otherwise. Maggie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 00:07:14 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4947En4029978 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 00:07:14 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49470Do016684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 00:07:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4946Y8R069944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 8 May 2007 22:06:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4946X3i034429; Tue, 8 May 2007 22:06:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mx6.wvu.edu (mx6.wvu.edu [157.182.203.35]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4946TfG034379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 8 May 2007 22:06:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from khoover@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUGW01.wvu.edu (wvugw01.wvu.edu [157.182.215.110]) by mx6.wvu.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4946Skt022373 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 00:06:28 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from khoover@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUDOM1-MTA by WVUGW01.wvu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 09 May 2007 00:06:28 -0400 Message-Id: <4641107C0200000C003DB42E@WVUGW01.wvu.edu> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.2 Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 00:06:19 -0400 From: "Kathy Hoover" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fabric and Costume in Ireland X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: e0c0dffe-fdfa-4c73-a2fa-70d76ecb2f79 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 464148E4.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 00:07:03 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Saragrace's request for German shopping spots prompts me to ask the same = for Ireland, in particular, western Ireland. I'll be on my way there in 9 = days! We'll be spending a very quick and brief couple of days in counties = Clare, Mayo, and Roscommon, then a more leisurely week near Cork and = touring around the whole Southwest corner. =20 Does anyone know of any treasure troves of linens, embroidery, Irish = crochet, or exhibits of costume in any of the places I've mentioned? And = not all our itinerary is set in stone yet. If there are any tourist spots = that shouldn't be missed, I'd welcome all recommendations! Thanks, Kathy =20 >>> "Saragracetk" 05/08/07 11:35 PM >>> Any recommendations? I'll be there in September. I am planning on = visiting "Linen House" =20 Thanks, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 03:22:47 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l497Mi6q000991 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 03:22:45 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l497MTZM015367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 03:22:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l497LmTq087209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 01:21:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l497Lin1020151; Wed, 9 May 2007 01:21:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s32.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s32.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.104]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l497Lf6M020095 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 01:21:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kstormy@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([207.46.11.106]) by bay0-omc1-s32.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Wed, 9 May 2007 00:21:36 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 9 May 2007 00:21:36 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 207.46.11.123 by by123fd.bay123.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 09 May 2007 07:21:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [67.169.18.151] X-Originating-Email: [kstormy@hotmail.com] X-Sender: kstormy@hotmail.com From: "Kathy Stormberg" To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 00:21:35 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 May 2007 07:21:36.0349 (UTC) FILETIME=[AD9E00D0:01C7920A] X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Subject: [h-cost] Looking for fabric shopping in Rome and Prague X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1d24aea7-5a84-4b5b-ace2-0a80ae004bc6 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 464176B5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 03:22:33 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Okay, since there are requests for good places for fabric in Ireland and Germany, how about Rome and Prague (Rome especially!)? I will be there at the end of this month/early next month. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks, Kathy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 04:12:42 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l498Cf8x005789 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 04:12:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4987Rvk024050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 04:12:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l498715U090764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 02:07:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l498705F038744; Wed, 9 May 2007 02:07:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from derby.ac.uk (uodgw1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4986tGC038714 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 02:06:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from k.m.bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from ([193.60.149.5]) by uodgw1.derby.ac.uk with ESMTP id 5202112.30266034; Wed, 09 May 2007 09:06:30 0100 Received: from Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p2+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id l4986PY08558.; Wed, 9 May 2007 09:06:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 09 May 2007 09:06:25 +0100 Message-Id: <46418F0702000014000D0EF1@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 09:06:15 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting References: <200705081801.l48I0U86081611@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200705081801.l48I0U86081611@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2dab557b-6032-484a-829b-01d41371e3b7 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 4641813F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 04:12:31 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO It's well known that 18th century sideboards had a cupboard for a chamber-pot, to be used by the gentlemen after the ladies had retired to the drawing-room. No doubt in the more robust 17th century it was considerd OK to do so in mixed company. On the subject of bowdlerised paintings - isn't there a medieval scene (I think in the Tres Riches Heures) showing people warming themselves by a fire, including a man holding up his tunic (?) skirts and showing everything? I've seen a reproduction of that with the relevant area blurred over. Also, Hogarth painted a friend of his leaning out of bed being sick in a chamber pot, which was later repainted at the request of the man's family to make him appear to be reading in bed. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 08:26:45 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49CQieA021506 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 08:26:44 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49CMUme011528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 08:26:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49CLtbu013116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 06:21:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49CLnqP046231; Wed, 9 May 2007 06:21:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.249]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49CLl5P046211 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 06:21:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maricelt@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c8so43985ana for ; Wed, 09 May 2007 05:21:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=JRjlr6pAzo+G/z/6CgjPc2VNUDbe+m7kJzq2W1M5NJ4WQ//C9EwE0vT49Y6epfcGioWjCUovkH+fwhQohP3bWNL62arLfVFhsyhDJ/EekGURLOgrheYoPlHxrsypOxKBJdtnXg4vWDfb9OLn6yC5LyTi2hFBv6Idmb92MNxZfss= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=SKW69i181tQVaPmc/n0fM+8DbHFmOXFD/p5xkAhg234obnc710J6CrCR911eREYco8sbfItAzCWOZkN/GNGeCVoK5WcVP4pvPf0lzV6b1XTk/vHLEH7IaKvo+kt5yOugdlEYR66B8wKVxCP3sHf2VlfdYxiN3Ex+RGuSjBz/rzo= Received: by 10.100.206.11 with SMTP id d11mr291414ang.1178713306902; Wed, 09 May 2007 05:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.122.2 with HTTP; Wed, 9 May 2007 05:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <72adc2660705090521y43c7baf9q4c2982d195cdcf51@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 08:21:46 -0400 From: "Marie Stewart" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric and Costume in Ireland In-Reply-To: <4641107C0200000C003DB42E@WVUGW01.wvu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <4641107C0200000C003DB42E@WVUGW01.wvu.edu> X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 55ea84c4-2857-4c9c-9337-70393c0b924b X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4641BD06.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 08:26:33 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Oh! I was just there last summer. We spent a great deal of time on bicycles and looking through castle ruins so my shopping was relatively non-existent. But there is the Artisans Center in Kilkenny. Most if not all is modern work in various media, but still definitely worth a stop. Other places where I found "oooohlookatthat" items were the 16th century house in Kilkenny, and the 16th century manor house called Ormond Castle in Carrick-on-Suir. Have fun. Mari On 5/9/07, Kathy Hoover wrote: > Saragrace's request for German shopping spots prompts me to ask the same for Ireland, in particular, western Ireland. I'll be on my way there in 9 days! We'll be spending a very quick and brief couple of days in counties Clare, Mayo, and Roscommon, then a more leisurely week near Cork and touring around the whole Southwest corner. > > Does anyone know of any treasure troves of linens, embroidery, Irish crochet, or exhibits of costume in any of the places I've mentioned? And not all our itinerary is set in stone yet. If there are any tourist spots that shouldn't be missed, I'd welcome all recommendations! > > Thanks, > Kathy > > >>> "Saragracetk" 05/08/07 11:35 PM >>> > Any recommendations? I'll be there in September. I am planning on visiting > "Linen House" > > > > Thanks, > > > Sg > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 08:40:51 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49CeoTj023769 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 08:40:50 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49CbkfZ022615 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 08:40:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49CbMqu015169 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 06:37:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49CbLUf054449; Wed, 9 May 2007 06:37:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp3.america.net (qsmtp3.america.net [69.60.160.246]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49CbJXj054425 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 06:37:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladymaggie@justinanimator.com) Message-Id: <200705091237.l49CbJXj054425@net.indra.com> Received: from [65.125.64.173] (helo=MAX.feccommunications.net) by qsmtp3.america.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1HllPy-0003nh-Uy for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 May 2007 08:37:19 -0400 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 07:37:12 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Genie Barrett Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric and Costume in Ireland In-Reply-To: <4641107C0200000C003DB42E@WVUGW01.wvu.edu> References: <4641107C0200000C003DB42E@WVUGW01.wvu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 09c6f7cf-d0b4-46ac-9fc6-ea6e6cf5b6ab X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4641C09A.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 08:40:39 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At 11:06 PM 5/8/2007, you wrote: >Does anyone know of any treasure troves of linens, embroidery, Irish >crochet, or exhibits of costume in any of the places I've >mentioned? And not all our itinerary is set in stone yet. If there >are any tourist spots that shouldn't be missed, I'd welcome all >recommendations! > >Thanks, >Kathy I heard of a linen mill or lace factory on the Dingle peninsula somewhere, but didn't have time to look for it while we were there. There is also a indoor shopping mall in Cork, the Savoy Centre, on Patrick St. They used to have (five years ago) a cotton/linen shop there as well as a few other boutiques with handmade jewelry and local artisan's work. Have a great time. It's a beautiful area. Just an fyi, if you intend to go to Skellig, get there very early. There is only one boat per day, and it leaves pretty early. Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 08:47:11 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49Cl9PR024737 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 08:47:09 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49Ckt0E031416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 08:46:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49CkXmQ016308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 06:46:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49CkWaS059452; Wed, 9 May 2007 06:46:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m26.mx.aol.com (imo-m26.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49CkSl5059400 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 06:46:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.d68.647efc7 (58550) for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 08:46:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 08:46:18 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 6, Issue 226 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f2d93ef9-9e4b-4ebb-aa13-cab7f5aa6e95 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 4641C2BF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 08:46:59 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Can't help personally (bf not allowed to go to Ireland), but the people on _www.livinghistory.ie_ (http://www.livinghistory.ie) might have some suggestions. In a message dated 09/05/2007 13:23:02 GMT Standard Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: Saragrace's request for German shopping spots prompts me to ask the same for Ireland, in particular, western Ireland. I'll be on my way there in 9 days! We'll be spending a very quick and brief couple of days in counties Clare, Mayo, and Roscommon, then a more leisurely week near Cork and touring around the whole Southwest corner. Does anyone know of any treasure troves of linens, embroidery, Irish crochet, or exhibits of costume in any of the places I've mentioned? And not all our itinerary is set in stone yet. If there are any tourist spots that shouldn't be missed, I'd welcome all recommendations! Thanks, Kathy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 08:58:46 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49CwkF1026211 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 08:58:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49CwVTM006031 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 08:58:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49Cv9UX017435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 06:57:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49Cv7iS065194; Wed, 9 May 2007 06:57:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49Cv4dW065158 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 06:57:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m234.in-tch.com [216.166.191.234]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id l49CgTB21804 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 06:42:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <000a01c7923a$d6229ea0$eabfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200705081801.l48I0U86081611@net.indra.com> <46418F0702000014000D0EF1@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 07:06:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a380aee6-7c52-40eb-b1b3-70f536f3ffdb X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4641C577.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 08:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO My copy of the Tres Riches Heures does show that scene (one of the winter ones), and it has not only male peasants warming themselves, but at least one female one, as well. The anatomical differences are, uhm, pretty obvious. ;o) --sue in montana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 2:06 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting > On the subject of bowdlerised paintings - isn't there a medieval scene > (I think in the Tres Riches Heures) showing people warming themselves by > a fire, including a man holding up his tunic (?) skirts and showing > everything? I've seen a reproduction of that with the relevant area > blurred over. Also, Hogarth painted a friend of his leaning out of bed > being sick in a chamber pot, which was later repainted at the request of > the man's family to make him appear to be reading in bed. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 09:08:48 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49D8mjY026759 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 09:08:48 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49D3vsF025616 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 09:08:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49D3a2B018197 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 07:03:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49D3Zkg068814; Wed, 9 May 2007 07:03:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49D3VLa068683 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 07:03:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.cfd.ed09cc0 (45263) for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 09:03:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.104] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by ciaaol-d05.mail.aol.com (v115.11) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLD051-b0cf4641c699262; Wed, 09 May 2007 09:03:21 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <200705090358.l493wPBw030157@net.indra.com> References: <200705090358.l493wPBw030157@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <74d39aa8892ccc00695fb2707f4cbb43@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Strange marks after washing new fabric-suggestions? Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 09:03:19 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: edc90296-7bf2-40a5-b76c-834cb14883fe X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 4641C6BD.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 09:08:37 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Try washing again with "Stain Grabber". It is a disposable sheet that=20 goes in the washer and pulls the excess dye out of the water, so it=20 doesn't re-deposit on the fabric. Look for it in the laundry aisle. Can't hurt! Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for". =A0- "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On May 8, 2007, at 11:58 PM, Genie Barrett wrote: > At 08:44 PM 5/8/2007, you wrote: >> I bought about 8 yards of linen/rayon blend in a deep purple. Washed=20 >> it >> according to instructions, cold water, no chlorine bleach. I used the >> laundry detergent I always use (ALL) and added some fabric softener=20 >> to the >> last rinse. It has done something I've never seen in anything store=20 >> bought. >> It had slightly lighter marks all over and then a couple of large=20 >> blobs of >> darker stuff. The dark marks almost look like there was oil dropped=20 >> on it, >> and the lighter marks perhaps from the fabric softener? > > > This happened to me once, with a dark blue. I ended up using it for=20 > fighter's garb and linings... > > Sad, really, since it's a beautiful piece of fabric otherwise. > > Maggie > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 09:09:17 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49D9HxU026794 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 09:09:17 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49D93Hi014253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 09:09:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49D8jad018772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 07:08:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49D8itd072007; Wed, 9 May 2007 07:08:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep30.mail.dk (fep30.mail.dk [80.160.76.194]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49D8eX7071930 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 07:08:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep40.mail.dk ([195.41.46.140]) by fep30.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070509130835.ZZEB5755.fep30.mail.dk@fep40.mail.dk> for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 15:08:35 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.164.110.194]) by fep40.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070509130809.CYIH1147.fep40.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 15:08:09 +0200 Message-ID: <003401c7923b$2b9354b0$c26ea450@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for fabric shopping in Rome and Prague Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 15:08:41 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep40.mail.dk from [80.164.110.194] at Wed, 9 May 2007 15:08:08 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=20% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f3dedbc9-de6f-43e4-aa90-f7861cca526b X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4641C7EF.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 09:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I was going to ask the same about Rome, i am travelling down there on 11.th of june. Some years ago i found a terrific fabric shop in the main street called Via del Corso, but last time i looked for it, i couldnt find it anymore :-( Surely there must be some fabric shops in Rome, and isnt Italian Silk especially famous? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Stormberg" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 9:21 AM Subject: [h-cost] Looking for fabric shopping in Rome and Prague > Okay, since there are requests for good places for fabric in Ireland and > Germany, how about Rome and Prague (Rome especially!)? I will be there at > the end of this month/early next month. Any suggestions appreciated. > > Thanks, > Kathy > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 09:13:57 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49DDvkw027107 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 09:13:57 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49DDgak007604 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 09:13:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49DDMSW019241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 07:13:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49DDLqi074762; Wed, 9 May 2007 07:13:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from S3.cableone.net (s3.cableone.net [24.116.0.229]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49DDIck074679 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 07:13:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from anteckim (unverified [24.119.254.13]) by S3.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S3) with ESMTP id 107162977 for ; Wed, 09 May 2007 06:13:12 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" References: <4641107C0200000C003DB42E@WVUGW01.wvu.edu> Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 08:13:01 -0500 Message-ID: <000c01c7923b$c8abda60$bb00a8c0@anteckim> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Thread-Index: AceR8N9tmIqgF3zLQWeX9Pfp9UTuzwASqLIg In-Reply-To: <4641107C0200000C003DB42E@WVUGW01.wvu.edu> X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 2, First 34, in=38, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 24.119.254.13 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Button question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 62856918-43f3-41e4-91b9-ddc20d92f61d X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 4641C907.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 09:13:46 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO An interesting item is on eBay, a set of buttons with matching bar pins and some strange, metal curly things. Can anyone tell me what these were for? Search for item # 320110929170 Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 09:27:39 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49DRcdh027909 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 09:27:39 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49DROhN028642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 09:27:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49DQp2m020934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 07:26:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49DQl5G082976; Wed, 9 May 2007 07:26:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kumc-gwia.kumc.edu (kumc-gwia.kumc.edu [169.147.4.23]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49DQi39082908 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 07:26:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from kumc-mpg3.kumc.edu ([::ffff:10.120.1.73]) by kumc-gwia.kumc.edu with ESMTP; Wed, 09 May 2007 08:26:17 -0500 Received: from kumc-smtpout (mithril@localhost) by kumc-mpg3.kumc.edu with ESMTP id l49DQHi22682 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 08:26:17 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from Ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout [10.120.1.11]) by kumc-mpg3.kumc.edu ([10.120.1.74]); 09 May 2007 08:26:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 09 May 2007 08:26:15 -0500 References: <200705091221.l49CLoqX046244@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 08:26:01 -0500 Message-ID: <46418599.C9FB.00A6.0@kumc.edu> In-Reply-To: <200705091221.l49CLoqX046244@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bildindex is in English now! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2c355dc2-0ddf-4516-a569-bd2f00cced14 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4641CC3C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 09:27:28 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO This was brought up on another list. If you have never used this, you should. It is a fabulous website. www.bildindex.de Click on the British flag and then use the Expert Search...you could spend DAYS here! Sg (who has spent days there). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh wow Thanks! There goes the rest of the month of May....................... Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 09:36:56 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49Dat3d028465 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 09:36:55 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49DVvjZ001853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 09:36:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49DVWku021637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 07:31:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49DVUHW085842; Wed, 9 May 2007 07:31:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omr.tzo.com (omr.tzo.com [64.27.166.104]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49DVQso085739 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 07:31:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from [76.186.96.226] (helo=softwareinnovation.com) by omr.tzo.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HlmGE-0005Od-9x for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 May 2007 09:31:18 -0400 Received: from PYC64 ([192.168.0.26]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 9 May 2007 08:26:58 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" References: <4641107C0200000C003DB42E@WVUGW01.wvu.edu> <000c01c7923b$c8abda60$bb00a8c0@anteckim> Subject: RE: [h-cost] Button question Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 08:31:24 -0500 Organization: Software Innovation Message-ID: <04df01c7923e$5720e630$1a00a8c0@PYC64> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2826 In-Reply-To: <000c01c7923b$c8abda60$bb00a8c0@anteckim> Thread-Index: AceR8N9tmIqgF3zLQWeX9Pfp9UTuzwASqLIgAACWPoA= X-Antivirus: avast! 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X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 09:36:44 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Looks like the smaller bit are the pins that hold the buttons on the garment (similar to the cotter pins the button company uses to keep heavier button on their cards); the two longer objects might be "Collar stays"? Just my .o2 lira, betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kim Baird Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 8:13 AM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: [h-cost] Button question An interesting item is on eBay, a set of buttons with matching bar pins and some strange, metal curly things. Can anyone tell me what these were for? Search for item # 320110929170 Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 10:05:01 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49E51Fv030149 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 10:05:01 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49DxoQC011131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 10:04:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49DxO5P025324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 07:59:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49DxM4h004924; Wed, 9 May 2007 07:59:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep35.mail.dk (fep35.mail.dk [80.160.76.199]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49DxHti004738 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 07:59:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep43.mail.dk ([195.41.46.226]) by fep35.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070509135912.CMRD2479.fep35.mail.dk@fep43.mail.dk> for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 15:59:12 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.164.110.194]) by fep43.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070509135912.CDAM1148.fep43.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 15:59:12 +0200 Message-ID: <004501c79242$3fc30230$c26ea450@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bildindex is in English now! Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 15:59:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep43.mail.dk from [80.164.110.194] at Wed, 9 May 2007 15:59:10 +0200 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=20% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c23c7f15-210f-47c7-b4f8-78eda329bef2 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 4641D3D6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 10:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO You are in deed a wickedfrau. I dont have time for this you naughty naughty lady.............. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "WickedFrau" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 5:36 AM Subject: [h-cost] Bildindex is in English now! > This was brought up on another list. If you have never used this, you > should. It is a fabulous website. www.bildindex.de > > > Click on the British flag and then use the Expert Search...you could spend > DAYS here! > > > > Sg (who has spent days there). > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 10:05:08 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49E57dj030163 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 10:05:07 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49E2ZgL025409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 10:04:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49E27LY025736 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 08:02:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49E25bn007333; Wed, 9 May 2007 08:02:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [63.240.77.82]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49E1oEP007047 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 08:01:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2007050914014401200fjus0e>; Wed, 9 May 2007 14:01:44 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) To: Historical Costume Message-Id: <950770766268d56a18f8edc3f8fb0fc5@ntw.net> From: Sylvia Rognstad Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 08:01:43 -0600 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com Subject: [h-cost] rayon prints and contact lenses X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f71759b2-7a9a-4415-b48d-4d459f5eb7b1 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4641D47C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 10:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Does anyone know of some good online sites for buying small 1930s type rayon prints? And I can't recall the name of the website someone on one of these lists recommended for buying bloodshot contact lenses. Thanx, Sylvia Rognstad Divinity Designs and Emeralds http://www.d-e-designs.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 10:07:23 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49E7NVY030272 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 10:07:23 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49E78jv024315 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 10:07:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49E6dZh026257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 08:06:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49E6bIp010557; Wed, 9 May 2007 08:06:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49E6Y43010492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 08:06:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HlmoG-0004c2-Qy; Wed, 09 May 2007 09:06:29 -0500 Received: from 65.13.105.239 ([65.13.105.239]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 09 May 2007 10:06:28 -0400 Message-ID: <20070509100628.s9cjx3x2b7cw0c4g@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 10:06:28 -0400 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting References: <200705081801.l48I0U86081611@net.indra.com> <46418F0702000014000D0EF1@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <46418F0702000014000D0EF1@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/horde/imp/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/horde/imp X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 45057207-dcb0-47df-a1f0-5a88b03ae7ce X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 4641D58C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 10:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Quoting Kate M Bunting : > It's well known that 18th century sideboards had a cupboard for a > chamber-pot, to be used by the gentlemen after the ladies had retired to > the drawing-room. No doubt in the more robust 17th century it was > considerd OK to do so in mixed company. > On the subject of bowdlerised paintings - isn't there a medieval scene > (I think in the Tres Riches Heures) showing people warming themselves by > a fire, including a man holding up his tunic (?) skirts and showing > everything? I've seen a reproduction of that with the relevant area > blurred over. Also, Hogarth painted a friend of his leaning out of bed > being sick in a chamber pot, which was later repainted at the request of > the man's family to make him appear to be reading in bed. > Yeah. It's February. All the dangly bits are in plain view. susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 10:50:35 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49EoZMI032604 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 10:50:35 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49EoKao001491 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 10:50:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49Enl5P032292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 08:49:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49EndYY042378; Wed, 9 May 2007 08:49:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s32.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s32.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.104]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49EnZsa042274 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 08:49:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.19]) by bay0-omc1-s32.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Wed, 9 May 2007 07:49:30 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 9 May 2007 07:49:28 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 70.56.178.22 by BAY133-DAV9.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 09 May 2007 14:49:26 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.56.178.22] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4641107C0200000C003DB42E@WVUGW01.wvu.edu><000c01c7923b$c8abda60$bb00a8c0@anteckim> <04df01c7923e$5720e630$1a00a8c0@PYC64> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Button question Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 07:49:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 9 May 2007 07:49:42 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 May 2007 14:49:28.0173 (UTC) FILETIME=[3E78F1D0:01C79249] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7158b035-0724-4638-9840-307cd4e13a38 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4641DFAD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 10:50:24 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO The description calls them "vanity pins" whatever those are... I betcha if you wrote the seller she could tell you. She looks like she = specializes in them. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 11:03:51 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49F3pJc000912 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 11:03:51 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49F3aP9001076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 11:03:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49F2XU0034496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 09:02:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49F2WHx053580; Wed, 9 May 2007 09:02:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49F2R6r053439 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 09:02:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE19FCE692 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 10:02:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4641E27C.90508@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 10:02:20 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Strange marks after washing new fabric-suggestions? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 780907d3-6178-49b2-bf01-762f397cddd5 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 4641E2C8.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 11:03:40 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO WickedFrau wrote: > I bought about 8 yards of linen/rayon blend in a deep purple. Washed it > according to instructions, cold water, no chlorine bleach. I used the > laundry detergent I always use (ALL) and added some fabric softener to the > last rinse. Did you use powder or liquid? Powder sometimes leaves white marks if it doesn't dissolve in the water. Did you add the soap to the water first, or dump it in on top of the fabric? Some detergents have bleach in them and they aren't clearly labelled, and if you pour them on the fabric directly they can discolor your fabric. I think ALL was one I stopped using a while back because it had an ingredient that was fading my dark shirts noticeably quickly. Some kind of enzyme cleaner. I don't know if it's still the same formula. And it's always possible the rayon wasn't colorfast to begin with. Is there any way to get an unwashed sample, and rub it with a wet cotton ball to see? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 11:13:24 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49FDOBJ001378 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 11:13:24 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49F89HP002294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 11:13:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49F7WEi035176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 09:07:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49F7VfR057841; Wed, 9 May 2007 09:07:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.200]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49F7SN6057713 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 09:07:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with SMTP id <0JHS00MKO4NYI030@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 May 2007 11:07:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 11:07:02 -0400 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] Bildindex is in English now! In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=13% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1e8d8951-0960-4d8b-b1c6-05658f9bcfdd X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 4641E3D9.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 11:13:13 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Thanks! This is wonderful! Monica -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of WickedFrau Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 11:37 PM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: [h-cost] Bildindex is in English now! This was brought up on another list. If you have never used this, you should. It is a fabulous website. www.bildindex.de Click on the British flag and then use the Expert Search...you could spend DAYS here! Sg (who has spent days there). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 12:04:17 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49G4Gds004320 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 12:04:16 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49G42n1001396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 12:04:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49G3DQc043595 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 10:03:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49G36rj006871; Wed, 9 May 2007 10:03:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [17.250.248.171]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49G31nl006759 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 10:03:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gawne@mac.com) Received: from mac.com (smtpin01-en2 [10.13.10.146]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/smtpout01/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id l49G314j002591 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 09:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from AXH23W751 (dhcp073160.fhcrc.org [140.107.73.160]) (authenticated bits=0) by mac.com (Xserve/smtpin01/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id l49G2wEp003909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 09:02:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003201c79253$8353b330$a0496b8c@fhcrc.org> From: "Agnes Gawne" To: References: <200705091502.l49F2osV053871@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric and Costume in Ireland Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 09:02:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Brightmail-scanned: yes X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=15% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: aac73c61-018e-4bbe-a38f-9bb56358d1a1 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 4641F0F2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 12:04:05 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Textile Museums in the North of Ireland It's completely out of the area you will be in but in case any others are traveling to Ireland and going North rather than West, the Irish Linen Centre and Museum in Lisburn, County Antrim is amazing, it's fairly small but they demonstrate every aspect of linen making from the raw flax, the tow, the combing, the spinning, the weaving, the finishing. They have an actual original Jacquard loom that they still use to make special linens for official occasions - it's really worth a visit if linen is your interest. Here's a link to the website http://www.visitlisburn.com/visitor_attractions/irish_linen_centre_and_lisburn_museum/ The rest of Lisburn is a Unionist town full of Union Jacks and other signs of their pride in being part of the United Kingdom so it is quite different from your visits to Dublin, Galway or Cork. Really eye-opening on many levels, but the Linen Museum can't be beat. There is a lace museum that is really a small house completely filled with every type of lace that has been made in Ireland and some from the continent not too far from the Belleek factory in Fermanagh, once again, this is the North of Ireland, not the West. Most ofthe lace is in garments so it may be interesting to a costumer of 19 or 20th century garments. Here's a link to their website: http://www.irishlacemuseum.com/ Ireland has gotten really continental compared with when I first went there in 1980 to visit my cousins and consequently you find more things like the modern Kilkenny craft centres and less old fashioned crafts. But, you will find the people to still be gracious. Strike up a conversation in a pub or a shop (convenience store) sometimes the locals know about things off the beaten path that might be small but really interesting and unique. > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 07:37:12 -0500 > From: Genie Barrett > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric and Costume in Ireland > To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: <200705091237.l49CbJXj054425@net.indra.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > At 11:06 PM 5/8/2007, you wrote: > >>Does anyone know of any treasure troves of linens, embroidery, Irish >>crochet, or exhibits of costume in any of the places I've >>mentioned? And not all our itinerary is set in stone yet. If there >>are any tourist spots that shouldn't be missed, I'd welcome all >>recommendations! >> >>Thanks, >>Kathy > > I heard of a linen mill or lace factory on the Dingle peninsula > somewhere, but didn't have time to look for it while we were > there. There is also a indoor shopping mall in Cork, the Savoy > Centre, on Patrick St. They used to have (five years ago) a > cotton/linen shop there as well as a few other boutiques with > handmade jewelry and local artisan's work. > > Have a great time. It's a beautiful area. Just an fyi, if you > intend to go to Skellig, get there very early. There is only one > boat per day, and it leaves pretty early. > > Genie >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 12:10:31 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49GAVVQ004702 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 12:10:31 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49G5AEa004732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 12:10:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49G4ixU043774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 10:04:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49G4dvM008266; Wed, 9 May 2007 10:04:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33602.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33602.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.191]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l49G4WJp008007 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 10:04:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from slc_fire@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 23290 invoked by uid 60001); 9 May 2007 16:04:19 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=225gwX7osXs0czHwhkxYlFLi7N2qApm5/FkX7NHwySyYcqnFvMaHaeJjDhUuwwFrDoMtBiT1Fpf0sU+L39G2tlw2/xvBSprR3Taz7A069Abn0GHHWEoIpfmnuGVOxq8rpwQhLvw9rxW46eBaN3N1cCTBRLuz9IRznsD2/YFbSJY=; X-YMail-OSG: lOFlW4cVM1nPg3l1BPTB1lYlw2CS06LUc7Y3ZK4K96wn3QENkiTAfmgjHhdWHPo3D.QN22q3M4KEwSzthabBoSnvxnqAEGpgaQslovvm1eubUjxwR0ItC4TVL0CDaQ-- Received: from [66.110.201.67] by web33602.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 May 2007 09:04:19 PDT Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 09:04:19 -0700 (PDT) From: slc_fire Subject: Re: [h-cost] rayon prints and contact lenses To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <950770766268d56a18f8edc3f8fb0fc5@ntw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <607329.22973.qm@web33602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 3a263379-06b5-4313-a46b-6295e1b84ef0 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 4641F136.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 12:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I bought my bloodshot and black-out contact lenses from my local eye doctor. Many are carrying special fx lenses now. Sheree Sylvia Rognstad wrote: Does anyone know of some good online sites for buying small 1930s type rayon prints? And I can't recall the name of the website someone on one of these lists recommended for buying bloodshot contact lenses. Thanx, Sylvia Rognstad Divinity Designs and Emeralds http://www.d-e-designs.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Life may not be the party we hoped for... but while we are here we might as well dance! --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 12:11:36 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49GBaQD004804 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 12:11:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49G8niD007081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 12:11:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49G8LR2044473 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 10:08:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49G8KqC011846; Wed, 9 May 2007 10:08:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [17.250.248.186]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49G8H4l011799 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 10:08:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gawne@mac.com) Received: from mac.com (smtpin01-en2 [10.13.10.146]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/smtpout16/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id l49G8FIF011670 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 09:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from AXH23W751 (dhcp073160.fhcrc.org [140.107.73.160]) (authenticated bits=0) by mac.com (Xserve/smtpin01/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id l49G8DuW006558 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 09:08:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003501c79254$3f3da060$a0496b8c@fhcrc.org> From: "Agnes Gawne" To: References: <200705091502.l49F2osV053871@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 09:08:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Brightmail-scanned: yes X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=16% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: hair linnen cape/ linen cap X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 40f2c6a8-3eb7-48aa-91fd-13e7e4c9d7b2 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4641F211.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 12:11:25 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Bjarne, That cap is sometimes also called a Corday Cap as Charlotte Corday was wearing one when her portrait was made in prison after she murdered Marat. In the USA some people also call it a Martha Washington Cap as she is often pictured wearing a variation of it as well. Getting the Country Wives pattern (if they will ship to Denmark) is probably the quickest and easiest way to get information about the caps and since they (Country Wives) did all the research work you know it will be correct. > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 09:50:08 -0400 > From: "Five Rivers Chapmanry" > Subject: [h-cost] RE: hair linnen cape > To: > Message-ID: <000001c79240$f49c8890$6400a8c0@MAIN> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" > > This exact cap is part of a repertoire of caps in one of the most > excellent Country Wives patterns. Judy and the troupe at Country Wives > have > examined literally hundreds of extant examples and come up with a series > of > cap patterns ranging from late Georgian through Regency, of which the cap > you're viewing, Bjarne, is Regency. > > You can view and order the patterns by contacting Judy McPherson > directly at baggage@mts.net . I was very thrilled when we used to carry > patterns to have this line included in our repertoire. Simply one of the > best! > > Regards, > Lorina > Five Rivers Chapmanry > purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage, embroidery supplies; fine, > original textile, pen and ink, and watercolour art. Now available: Recipes > of a Dumb Housewife, by Lorina Stephens > 519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org > >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 12:53:37 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49GrahD007781 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 12:53:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49GnTVV013725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 12:53:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49GmrOr050078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 10:48:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49Gmn6Q047229; Wed, 9 May 2007 10:48:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.227]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49GmlDB047190 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 10:48:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id m7so271894nzf for ; Wed, 09 May 2007 09:48:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=F4v2FP5s0ihvRZBNsyKkYPUoJQebfcRwA6Ys9XlRVx8Ss6dtWwg90VYTUKhOWh9HrNz7Ob4m+N4Q9jcpU2/piVNO9l3A0pPfsfU5osXRO1hGsSgAsFvtFvKzTN9ExV8nNl47NwEwaTVSXgumUrY3yDFdXj37WTFsxUOfBrj/8j4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=VehAeY0uyVA/gFOPCN7wrkDfRZdkgWc/UX4rhpfW54/sCDxxZXbKQRYTXBoS7O/ULqtwhkI5vgd6xE8iVlL0AvmQXiOW/UYihAyxO7wvVGHwXK0/mGw+b2jugAeqdrpUxJKm8s61vjEHEkLcQdOgHwg+ZKW9iymNgY2uNY8L2Qs= Received: by 10.114.156.1 with SMTP id d1mr253764wae.1178729326609; Wed, 09 May 2007 09:48:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.131.18 with HTTP; Wed, 9 May 2007 09:48:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 09:48:46 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for fabric shopping in Rome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1416d708-9c53-45fc-ba83-4973fa311ecc X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4641FB99.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 12:53:26 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO >>I was going to ask the same about Rome, i am travelling down there on 11.th of june. >Surely there must be some fabric shops in Rome, and isnt Italian Silk especially famous? Yes they were, in the Lake Como district. I'd ask your hotel concierge to check the phone book for a local mill outlet (do they have such things?!) or fabric store that might carry such things. BTW, Italian phone books are notoriously poorly organized. The concierge will be infinitely better unless you're a native speaker. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 15:18:09 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49JI87h016628 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 15:18:09 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49JHsZT006445 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 15:17:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49JHJTg071969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 13:17:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49JH9nq073373; Wed, 9 May 2007 13:17:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.38]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49DWdac086478 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 07:32:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAALZpQUbUSnINk2dsb2JhbACPegIBAQcGCAcFHw Received: from [212.139.120.206] (port=2231 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-relay-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.66 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HlmHP-0007yr-14 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 09 May 2007 14:32:31 +0100 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20070509142825.037604b0@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 14:32:30 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Button question In-Reply-To: <000c01c7923b$c8abda60$bb00a8c0@anteckim> References: <4641107C0200000C003DB42E@WVUGW01.wvu.edu> <000c01c7923b$c8abda60$bb00a8c0@anteckim> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=50% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5f3a43df-12f5-4fae-883d-9d297f887a24 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 46421E62.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 15:17:58 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At 14:13 09/05/2007, you wrote: >An interesting item is on eBay, a set of buttons with matching bar pins and >some strange, metal curly things. Can anyone tell me what these were for? >Search for item # 320110929170 > >Kim These are for a dress/evening suit, I would imagine. They may be for a shirt, or possibly a waistcoat*. There will be eyelet holes in the shirt/waistcoat instead of buttonholes. The buttons will have small rings on the backs, which go through the eyelets, then the "curly" things slide through the rings, which secures them. My husband has a beautiful set in blue. * I have Victorian waistcoats which fasten like this - it means you can was them without spoiling the buttons. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 15:19:19 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49JJJDM016736 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 15:19:19 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49JJ4Nq005262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 15:19:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49JITRB072223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 13:18:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49JISHH074565; Wed, 9 May 2007 13:18:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.wightman.on.ca (server01.clifford.wightman.ca [216.110.227.141]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49DoCcS098246 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 07:50:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix, from userid 99) id 3EE04D4569; Wed, 9 May 2007 09:50:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on server01.clifford X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100 autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 Received: from MAIN (dsl-v45-216-110-230-37.wightman.ca [216.110.230.37]) by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45C65D4553 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 09:50:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Five Rivers Chapmanry" To: Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 09:50:08 -0400 Organization: Five Rivers Message-ID: <000001c79240$f49c8890$6400a8c0@MAIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6822 Importance: Normal Thread-Index: AceSNVMxBwTe+t7HRTKkQYrjlp+2OQACtqsg In-Reply-To: <200705091221.l49CLoqY046244@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: hair linnen cape X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 85b056c8-ff59-40f8-bce5-ead1132fcd96 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 46421EA8.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 15:19:08 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO This exact cap is part of a repertoire of caps in one of the most excellent Country Wives patterns. Judy and the troupe at Country Wives = have examined literally hundreds of extant examples and come up with a series = of cap patterns ranging from late Georgian through Regency, of which the = cap you're viewing, Bjarne, is Regency. You can view and order the patterns by contacting Judy McPherson directly at baggage@mts.net . I was very thrilled when we used to carry patterns to have this line included in our repertoire. Simply one of the best! Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage, embroidery supplies; fine, original textile, pen and ink, and watercolour art. Now available: = Recipes of a Dumb Housewife, by Lorina Stephens 519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition.=20 Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.6/794 - Release Date: 5/8/2007 = 2:23 PM =20 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 15:22:33 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49JMX22016889 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 15:22:33 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49JMJtE006724 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 15:22:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49JM1tP072847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 13:22:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49JM0xU077781; Wed, 9 May 2007 13:22:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.234]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49GgqYl041776 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 10:42:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id m7so269692nzf for ; Wed, 09 May 2007 09:42:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=mK0ejfoP5Yqy4CqEgnS4PoKMdwHu+HkPOn4me7I6BE3bQQ6+/3VE3nB04d3n/Yb+mFGOtXP48602EW6n33zS884jCcZpPzdGuL7d9E6CWevI4iB3RqOueNkyhTCkYThevKnbwwLltwg36SMTveGiO5NfFT2++GVOyXylmTxoUBE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=jeZbfc2cGAMazE4ZFyHiGbG/zrLlvJ+dyn2+UcZeCKou8jNQ9WO62W+lWFEYGmulv8Fb69bwTAxNyc7N1EFraT0EEHfpkrA3dAoM1eqZLf+Wv9YVRRVD11nawCtHVooq0yNoN2dEv8XYqyPiTdsc+qQ7W+gUKeOeKjvRerDqfDQ= Received: by 10.114.254.1 with SMTP id b1mr269831wai.1178728968123; Wed, 09 May 2007 09:42:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.131.18 with HTTP; Wed, 9 May 2007 09:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 09:42:47 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for fabric shopping in Prague MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 284c94b6-5aee-4d3c-8964-f0cf3d85feaf X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 46421F6B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 15:22:23 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO K, I strongly recommend shopping for *crystal* in Prague. And hitting the antique shops along the river. Dine in Mala Strana section of the city. The place is so cheap even a posh section of town is a bargain. The Museum of Decorative Arts has a small but elegant fashion collection including the dress I'm copying for my wedding dress. It's mainly 19th & 20th c but still a distinctive style differing from Milan, Paris, London & New York. Look in the church on the Charles river for renn & medieval repro jewelry & knicknacks (avoid the pickpockets they are fierce & persistent). Ditto Prague Castle & every other cool old building. And about the pickpockets... I mean it. Even NYC in the bad old days of the 70s & 80s had less aggressive pickpockets. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 15:25:00 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49JP0JQ017030 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 15:25:00 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49JOjQv002536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 15:24:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49JNokZ073221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 13:23:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49JNmxM079562; Wed, 9 May 2007 13:23:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.140]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l49IHBoX023192 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 12:17:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 2603 invoked from network); 9 May 2007 18:17:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.148.91 with login) by smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 May 2007 18:17:06 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: nGsGK1oVM1lMoyqczdzUYbOEMY5oi0iF.OQWXrvc2RuZUdymQsqSRRURWu2DpaaPS5n0OD_CPKsK_82fSqV_A7sjYjCdqxiEbxEx9jD6DfhSJs5f4NH3 Message-ID: <006e01c79266$375c64f0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4641107C0200000C003DB42E@WVUGW01.wvu.edu><000c01c7923b$c8abda60$bb00a8c0@anteckim> <04df01c7923e$5720e630$1a00a8c0@PYC64> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Button question Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 14:16:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: net.indra.com 1290; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b7491d57-e6a7-47f4-ba0c-d3090c18fcd5 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 46421FFD.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 15:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Saw a set similar to this at a recent auction. The set appears to have waistcoat buttons and two collar bars. The other set I saw had matching cufflinks and set of shirt studs; the empty space in the box would account for neither , but maybe a watch fob? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 9:31 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Button question > Looks like the smaller bit are the pins that hold the buttons on the > garment > (similar to the cotter pins the button company uses to keep heavier button > on their cards); the two longer objects might be "Collar stays"? > Just my .o2 lira, betsy > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Kim Baird > Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 8:13 AM > To: 'Historical Costume' > Subject: [h-cost] Button question > > An interesting item is on eBay, a set of buttons with matching bar pins > and > some strange, metal curly things. Can anyone tell me what these were for? > Search for item # 320110929170 > > Kim > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 17:01:25 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49L1P3N022077 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 17:01:25 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49L1BQw022453 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 17:01:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49L0ioi088570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 15:00:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49L0gtN067701; Wed, 9 May 2007 15:00:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alexander.concentric.com (alexander.concentric.com [207.155.248.157]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49L0ZGP067558 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 15:00:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: by alexander.concentric.com (ConcentricHost(2.54) Relay, from userid 500) id 5E4AC5007; Wed, 9 May 2007 17:00:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 209.78.214.253 (as jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) by register.concentric.com (207.155.248.157) with Concentric Web Mail; Wed, 09 May 2007 14:00:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Julie To: Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 14:00:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200705091803.l49I3RUZ011990@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <20070509210025.5E4AC5007@alexander.concentric.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bildindex is in English now! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9ebc23d4-03c1-4cc7-99d2-6e1c76a5e32b X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 46423697.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 17:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I tried it and got nowhere. The search engine doesn't seem to recognize te= rms in English - you know, really esoteric and unusual ones like knit, embr= oidery, weave... Julie ---- wrote: >=20 > This was brought up on another list. If you have never used this, you > should. It is a fabulous website. www.bildindex.de > =20 >=20 > Click on the British flag and then use the Expert Search...you could spen= d > DAYS here! >=20 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 17:01:45 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49L1jax022088 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 17:01:45 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49L1Vt1003305 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 17:01:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49L0ZdV088526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 15:00:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49L0Rcm067345; Wed, 9 May 2007 15:00:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [17.250.248.184]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49L0DkL067123 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 15:00:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gawne@mac.com) Received: from mac.com (smtpin01-en2 [10.13.10.146]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/smtpout14/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id l49L0DuY003879 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 14:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from AXH23W751 (dhcp073160.fhcrc.org [140.107.73.160]) (authenticated bits=0) by mac.com (Xserve/smtpin01/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id l49L0BrP001729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 14:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003401c7927d$08f5c400$a0496b8c@fhcrc.org> From: "Agnes Gawne" To: References: <200705091803.l49I3RUZ011990@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 14:00:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Brightmail-scanned: yes X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=17% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: The Jamestown Test X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b8ef1516-95c3-4fd5-8b78-3e533e8a3a4e X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 464236AB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 17:01:35 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO That was pretty funny Cin, but you have to listen all the way to his very last statement: "... I also learned that breeches make my butt look big!" Message: 7 Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 10:40:52 -0700 From: Cin Subject: [h-cost] The Jamestown Test To: h-cost Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed A Washington Post reporter dresses up as John Smith to see if anyone recognizes the outfit or has heard about Jamestown. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2007/05/08/VI2007050801375.html I suspect we'd all fail the test... he just looks like a guy in funny clothes made of upholstery fabrics to me. It's a cute video, tho'. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 17:27:11 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49LRBaT023173 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 17:27:11 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49LQvuR019963 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 17:27:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49LQWwk092281 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 15:26:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49LQVEv089536; Wed, 9 May 2007 15:26:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp2.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l49LQSCh089488 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 15:26:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Message-Id: <200705092126.l49LQSCh089488@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 11283 invoked from network); 9 May 2007 14:26:27 -0700 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 10571, pid: 11226, t: 4.5032s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:43/d:3123 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.102) by qsmtp2 with SMTP; 9 May 2007 14:26:23 -0700 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 14:23:03 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Jamestown Test In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp2.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 961172cf-ecc4-4c8e-90fd-d9c5e7bfb0a1 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 46423CA1.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 17:27:01 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At 10:40 AM 5/9/2007, you wrote: >A Washington Post reporter dresses up as John Smith to see if anyone >recognizes the outfit or has heard about Jamestown. >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2007/05/08/VI2007050801375.html >I suspect we'd all fail the test... he just looks like a guy in funny >clothes made of upholstery fabrics to me. It's a cute video, tho'. >--cin >Cynthia Barnes >CinBarnes@gmail.com Without a hat, he looked only partly dressed to me. But it was a fun video. I wonder how well people would have answered out here in California. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 17:51:33 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49LpXxW024462 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 17:51:33 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49LpIXJ030599 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 17:51:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49LogIb095819 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 15:50:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49LodBT009127; Wed, 9 May 2007 15:50:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.233]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49LoaJ6009084 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 15:50:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from michaela.de.bruce@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i4so449368wra for ; Wed, 09 May 2007 14:50:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=VHkVMYXuDsCCeMWYgugv6YZoVpYDu7RBavRTK0eg4nyekzNnDjy6sr5lv6QtkTzLyV7GesAT8YaDyKl7T5tUfPM6J6/BxVp2gA/E6WBlZ0lw4nOKM91UZ9X6SAS/RezgfNItW3qboufTH6427BpDjQVmhVTccHJoiWJQYnx+A44= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=JG08todKdFC4rzC6VBN/0iE5R8VDsSRd1Qoewi+TpZ5HldOgi4R2qL4ItrAGj+GzIN0zBOPzukCsPz51TvsbsybwXCJwcmBPQsfSuVnFXA6qvr2DJEepVDktgHepgaz1QoJHzSr3ZJksfMXORqAOqpGXSKyCow6xvvFY9ZvBrrs= Received: by 10.78.193.19 with SMTP id q19mr268747huf.1178747434905; Wed, 09 May 2007 14:50:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.157.12 with HTTP; Wed, 9 May 2007 14:50:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <73fb7a5f0705091450w7f3dd809l72f6fd48f2c48006@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 09:50:34 +1200 From: "michaela de bruce" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bildindex is in English now! In-Reply-To: <20070509210025.5E4AC5007@alexander.concentric.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <200705091803.l49I3RUZ011990@net.indra.com> <20070509210025.5E4AC5007@alexander.concentric.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8c603616-3f2d-49f9-8c80-21c4ee2a2346 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46424256.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 17:51:22 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > I tried it and got nowhere. The search engine doesn't seem to recognize = terms in English - you know, really esoteric and unusual ones like knit, em= broidery, weave... > Julie No, as far as I can tell it just helps you navigate to the right part of the site and then you still need to know the corrent spelling for cities, ie N=FCrnberg rather than Nurenberg. It also helps you know what button at the top of the image to click to make it larger if you don't know enough German. I spotted the flag a while back but have gotten used to (especially) German museum sites having a very brief English section*. I didn't really bother to use it as I figured the mueum sections would not be translated and those are what I use more than anything else. There are guides online for what search term to look for. But I'm not sure I've seen on that explains what the terms mean: http://www.larsdatter.com/bildnav.htm This is a guide to what the main museums offer, I have on occasion translated some sections in my journal. http://paternosters.blogspot.com/2005/03/bildindexde.html Helpful as well. Some of the terms used are fairly easy to interpret; textil=3Dtextiles some not so email=3Denamel, elfbein=3D ivory I think. The simplest way to search for costume of a particular time is to go to the Expert Search, plug in dates to the obvious fields then in the Gestamindex box type in mann or frau to find images that include men or women. You can also sort by region, but if you keep your date fields to a few decades you can usually have enough to choose from without having to go through thousands of images. Michaela de Bruce http://glittersweet.com *Which I perfectly understand and I would expect from a place where English is not the main language! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 18:24:50 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49MOnIE026050 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 18:24:49 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49MOZ8Y024893 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 18:24:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49JMnga073016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 13:22:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49JMm06078565; Wed, 9 May 2007 13:22:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.238]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49HetL4092903 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 11:40:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i4so345819wra for ; Wed, 09 May 2007 10:40:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=uhWgNORzXbOjGbnwTHGAG8cT2P0g/KhOfs2UJsRt21yTm/nYMyzs/mw24fhQAwQyOsWYnsfDyJh9RplW9IR7yvlAl84amydB8qJ15w26jtgelMMWgywEx/YLwfLrwQrJ+A5PygYdknmEbkdABBoIyqNdiRx5+IeZNjta0ZucJAU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=qXvPZjJ4wKCNb9Y4QtSbyEYGDnBadfEFOYbS76lvFKDE6NbTbPNJU0YglOiCopVGSBOzidpet2/x+03CTulHbWQEgIxUyS8lxHI7IZqffsGe9naO5ji/oB1bkNE5lQRpzxRH5aC9HaZJzRkB5BqA+w5Lc7OVHTtWdMgIst8R0KU= Received: by 10.114.168.1 with SMTP id q1mr262182wae.1178732452193; Wed, 09 May 2007 10:40:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.131.18 with HTTP; Wed, 9 May 2007 10:40:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 10:40:52 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=18% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] The Jamestown Test X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: af0d241a-818e-42e8-8feb-c26c350cca25 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 46424A23.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 18:24:39 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO A Washington Post reporter dresses up as John Smith to see if anyone recognizes the outfit or has heard about Jamestown. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2007/05/08/VI2007050801375.html I suspect we'd all fail the test... he just looks like a guy in funny clothes made of upholstery fabrics to me. It's a cute video, tho'. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 18:37:09 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49Mb9mV026649 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 18:37:09 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49Mat5M018484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 18:36:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49Ma5k2002233 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 16:36:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49Ma0kO044011; Wed, 9 May 2007 16:36:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth13.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth13.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.73]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49MZvAI043910 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 16:35:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from achasedesign@peoplepc.com) Received: from [209.86.224.24] (helo=mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by smtpauth13.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Hlul4-0000IC-6l for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Wed, 09 May 2007 18:35:42 -0400 Received: from 207.235.22.54 by webmail.peoplepc.com with HTTP; Wed, 9 May 2007 18:35:51 -0400 Message-ID: <2874147.1178750151446.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 17:35:51 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: AVC To: h-costume posts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 3778a894565bd4435fbe5647b6c494ea89e6754a908ffd695ce246b8612a057a38f57a28cdcd86ff548b785378294e88350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.24 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Subject: [h-cost] Beauty and the Beast X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ff0a8183-ad3f-4700-9592-2eca342f4232 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 46424D07.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 18:36:59 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi all, Earlier this month someone mentioned having just put their production of "Beauty and the Beast" away. Are those costumes available to borrow or rent to a qualified theater? We are over twenty years old, own our plant, well covered with insurance to protect imports and are about to mount this production. See our website at HCCT.org. We are Hill Country Community Theatre. Please reply offline: avchase@peoplepc.com. Thank you, Audrey in the high boonies of Central Texas ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 18:59:55 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49MxtVu027747 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 18:59:55 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l49MxfKs021210 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 18:59:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l49Mx57v004900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 16:59:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49Mx3qx060791; Wed, 9 May 2007 16:59:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from barra1.swissinfo.org (barra1.swissinfo.org [146.159.6.75]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l49Mx00B060707 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 16:59:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from swissgirl@swissinfo.org) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1178751533-363e00590001-L6CAXr X-Barracuda-URL: http://146.159.6.75:8000/cgi-bin/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Connect: kuma.sri.ch[194.6.181.33] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1178751533 X-ASG-Whitelist: Sender Received: from mail.swissinfo.org (kuma.sri.ch [194.6.181.33]) by barra1.swissinfo.org (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id 098C12B511 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 00:58:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from compaqub (24.216.120.37) by mail.swissinfo.org (7.2.064.1) (authenticated as swissgirl) id 45DAE0BC035AAEA8 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 May 2007 00:38:03 +0200 Message-ID: <00a201c7928a$c36c5f30$dd00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200705091803.l49I3RUZ011990@net.indra.com><20070509210025.5E4AC5007@alexander.concentric.com> <73fb7a5f0705091450w7f3dd809l72f6fd48f2c48006@mail.gmail.com> X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [h-cost] Bildindex is in English now!--sorta Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bildindex is in English now!--sorta Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 17:38:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable X-Barracuda-Virus-Scanned: by Barracuda Spam Firewall at swissinfo.org X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 3ef5d930-33dd-4042-8e89-3c88f43dc9ed X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 4642525D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 18:59:44 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO As a slight help, you don't have to figure out how to make umlauts with y= our=20 keyboard in order to successfully search. In general, you can replace an= y=20 umlauted vowel with vowel+e. For example, when searching for "D=FCrer",=20 "Duerer" will get you to the same set of files. "Durer", however, won't. The character "=DF" is more annoying, but can be produced by pressing Num= Lock=20 on your keyboard, then holding down Alt as you type 225 on the numerical=20 keypad (usually on the right side of your keyboard, with arrows on some o= f=20 the numbers). In the same way: =E4 =3D Alt 132 =C4 =3D Alt 142 =F6 =3D Alt 148 =D6 =3D Alt 153 =FC =3D Alt 129 =DC =3D Alt 154 Or, do what I usually do, and hunt around whatever page of Bildindex you=20 happen to be on until you see the character you need, then cut & paste! Personally, I've gotten used to searching bildindex whilst keeping a wind= ow=20 in the background with Google's translation utility: http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=3Den After years of using Bildindex and the like, I now have a bizzarely speci= fic=20 German vocabulary... -E House=20 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 20:23:56 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4A0NtcU031699 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 20:23:56 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4A0NfDr001165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 20:23:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4A0N2lX014581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 18:23:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4A0MwfN010986; Wed, 9 May 2007 18:22:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4A0MsQN010921 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 18:22:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from NostalgicNeedle@aol.com) Received: from NostalgicNeedle@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.d59.8c69677 (29678) for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 20:22:44 -0400 (EDT) From: NostalgicNeedle@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 20:22:44 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10708 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 6 needleworks by Sharon Cohen of Nostalgic Needle X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 190322c3-b3db-4feb-9b38-fe52e9f4d5b8 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4642660D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 20:23:45 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Just wanted to let you know 6 ORIGINAL needleworks stitched by Sharon Cohen of Nostalgic Needle have been placed on ebay for bidding. Thery are the original designer models which were phototgraphed for the needlework pattern of the same names. eBay - sharon cohen original, Cross Stitch, Crafts items on eBay.com ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 20:57:36 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4A0vaNs000401 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 20:57:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4A0vMgt017233 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 20:57:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4A0utR3018500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 18:56:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4A0usE3028784; Wed, 9 May 2007 18:56:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web81410.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81410.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.138]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4A0uo1f028705 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 18:56:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ctrvlyfarm@sbcglobal.net) Received: (qmail 51975 invoked by uid 60001); 10 May 2007 00:56:45 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=tzeFtU09Q8BxiFhVjK1CDjNvVNQowy0wa8oe0k0MNtGBRm1Otlyi8SZxQHeJAXEkHvdRvBDMC2WC2Tl6Fo70acw3N4SPoWVoN9V6hYd2cviM5w8kdbz6EOCcLP9Y/T0ncjz+0uV/UPBiT9coBlefC+EkZ9UdZ4MFnZxVdxjpZEs=; X-YMail-OSG: R7nNTo8VM1kN6rZyuI2sy3Iycyp7sRtFxvs1EeNfPgoeIwEifXs1UJGEeaUoiCp3dQ5Bedydm19cXkjcOI3eJ0bfR8lLYRlK43d6q2fgTx1FxWlDqJc- Received: from [68.77.176.169] by web81410.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 May 2007 17:56:45 PDT Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 17:56:45 -0700 (PDT) From: REBECCA BURCH Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for fabric shopping in Prague To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <362839.50536.qm@web81410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f9f0f5ca-fbc9-4ca0-8f87-b7f9a7c04f9a X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46426DF2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 20:57:26 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Also, watch what you eat. My husband picked up a very persistent intestinal bug from a green salad in Prague. It took a couple years for the thing to finally give up. Stick with cooked things. --- Cin wrote: > K, > I strongly recommend shopping for *crystal* in > Prague. And hitting > the antique shops along the river. Dine in Mala > Strana section of the > city. The place is so cheap even a posh section of > town is a bargain. > The Museum of Decorative Arts has a small but > elegant fashion > collection including the dress I'm copying for my > wedding dress. It's > mainly 19th & 20th c but still a distinctive style > differing from > Milan, Paris, London & New York. > Look in the church on the Charles river for renn & > medieval repro > jewelry & knicknacks (avoid the pickpockets they are > fierce & > persistent). Ditto Prague Castle & every other cool > old building. > And about the pickpockets... I mean it. Even NYC in > the bad old days > of the 70s & 80s had less aggressive pickpockets. > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Rebecca Burch Center Valley Farm Duncan Falls, Ohio, USA The only twelve steps I'm interested in are the ones between the flat folds and the brocades. --Anonymous Costumer-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 22:10:59 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4A2AxtT002583 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 22:10:59 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4A2AjkJ031015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 22:10:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4A2ACR3026666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 20:10:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4A2A8vH067093; Wed, 9 May 2007 20:10:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32214.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32214.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.145]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4A1wiOY060419 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 19:58:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sstormwatch@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 58829 invoked by uid 60001); 10 May 2007 01:58:39 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=t6RNQO5g1L0xwSUgR9M6JFoykVicq+7atjT1sJvoOKFkKoJY+/O+sqFEen17/IYlnJyXH0QMNGIcad06333us6KyCov6spXtzSD4cPEpc2vROXb/YbJqRwyj7kRpZwcUil8JQlWRMvZytd7raPIU6uFWqAQz1FIjalI/ZTbVcRQ=; X-YMail-OSG: zhXUfAYVM1l_hgvTpkddCzlFoOMSpAQDIT0nzVe9aheoBEWvPF1WrqO0w7msjsOexbm7FqN8htjZltxouotQOh.PZOHftHhx1.AW5d0GzdZhy8G2lBQ6YXzRf9i.8A-- Received: from [129.8.204.63] by web32214.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 May 2007 18:58:39 PDT Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 18:58:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Embroidery on pill box hats? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <430676.58544.qm@web32214.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=12% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2c8354d2-554b-4480-bb59-cf69dc191840 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 46427F25.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 22:10:49 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi Aylwen, I would love to see your images for embroidered pillbox hats. I've not looked for those specifically, but have wondered what they did look like. Long ago, I made a sparkly beaded pillbox hat that I wear once in awhile, but I didn't base it on anything period at the time. And I've not seen any embroidery in images for flat caps. For women, I've really only seen a few images of women wearing any sort of flat cap, and the ones I can think of off hand were Henrician. If you do find any images to support this, do let me know. I also have an embroidered flat cap that I first made when I first joined faire, and I just made it for fun, not historical accuracy (which I didn't care about then). Kimiko --- Aylwen & John Garden wrote: > Dear All > > I'm collecting images of embroidered pillbox hats > from the Elizabethan era. > Is there any evidence of embroidered flat caps? > My first attempt at a pillbox hat came out too > large, so I'm making a > smaller version, with a desire to embroider it this > time around. > > You can see my first hat at > http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/gardens.htm > > Many thanks, Aylwen > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 9 22:24:10 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4A2O97q002975 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 22:24:09 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4A2Nt3A002048 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 May 2007 22:23:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4A2KOYd027841 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 20:20:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4A2KNJQ072266; Wed, 9 May 2007 20:20:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web81111.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81111.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.103]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4A2JwtD072073 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 20:20:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynnroth@sbcglobal.net) Received: (qmail 22048 invoked by uid 60001); 10 May 2007 02:19:53 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=C2Fi99CG4b4DmG2blCIV2v9CgkZTE20F03vwkn1y3xupbY2ZkAUDD3ZJHuvf4wY+Uiii07SZ3QNHxDPuA/ipjcVVLlcePu+2k+nX62VvKey6jQJ23qK5+PjJFvvYC2/2XI9u0Xo3H/fikUDHF8aF5jlvFsXyHMNzv5rrwREffL4=; X-YMail-OSG: 4pcXuFUVM1nCtrVHKfqaQkG1ZxEQrdizqnO0jylsdb_lx61E0dEH6LEctp0ZHw2HxuOkoF68X4USdcjb2tCTrVk7A4FuEIym4fQun5hdP3pEY6yPoM8- Received: from [69.37.27.227] by web81111.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 May 2007 19:19:53 PDT Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 19:19:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Roth Subject: Re: [h-cost] Embroidered cuff To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <526432.17877.qm@web81111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 052abae9-5ee0-4a78-9e6d-ece3c2b145af X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4642823B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 09 May 2007 22:23:59 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Thanks for the information. I really appreciate it. Lynn Bonnie Booker wrote: have a question regarding Blackwork. How do you embroider on a cuff? If you make a chemise and want to do blackwork on a cuff whats the best wa y to do it? Lynn Embroidering a cuff depends on what kind of cuff you are doing. As we were talking about Blackwork I presume you are talking about counted patterns. I measure the wrist and add an inch. Then I decide how wide I want the cuff, usually about 2 ". I draw this with a pencil on linen, careful to follow the line of the thread of the linen. If it is hard to see, I draw a thread, measure 2" then draw another thread. This way I know it is straight. I count the pattern and divide be the number of threads. If the design is 10 spaces high, for example, and I want to fill 1" which is say 49 threads I round it off to 5 threads per stitch. It will come out slightly larger than 1", but works. This is ONLY for ADVANCED embroiders. However, for a beginner, I would say use the waste canvas you can get at most hobby stores. They are much easier to work with. You baste them over the area as a guide. Work the design. You can also do a sleeve without a cuff this way. I then cut out the cuff and proceed as usual. For a collar I do the same, draw in pencil, embroider, then cut out. I work then on scrap linen and run water soluable (school glue) around the edges so it doesn't unravel. For a sleeve without a cuff, I finish the sleeve first if there is it is large enough. If not, I at least sew down far enough to make sure the design matches up. -- Aspasia Moonwind _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 00:14:23 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4A4EM60006752 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 00:14:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4A4E725005456 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 00:14:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4A4DTov040566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 9 May 2007 22:13:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4A4DL0t027805; Wed, 9 May 2007 22:13:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-7.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-7.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.25]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4A4DHTd027727 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 22:13:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mplumb@wideopenwest.com) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (d14-69-62-55.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.55.62]) by pop-7.dnv.wideopenwest.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l4A4DBXo013465 for ; Wed, 9 May 2007 23:13:12 -0500 Message-ID: <46429C33.5050007@wideopenwest.com> Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 00:14:43 -0400 From: Michelle Plumb User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070305) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bjarne's upcoming Inspiration article. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2b54fdf3-d13f-42cf-809e-fadf94b25678 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46429C10.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 00:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Bjarne, there seems to be some confusion about which issue you will be appearing in. I sent in a pre-order for issue August issue #57 (as you mentioned), and was told that issue #57 wouldn't be available until 23 Jan 2008. Has there been some sort of mixup? Michelle, looking forward excitedly to your feature! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 02:54:17 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4A6sFN6001889 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 02:54:15 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4A6s0PO001685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 02:54:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4A6rY5n058522 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 00:53:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4A6rTKJ097586; Thu, 10 May 2007 00:53:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pecan.exetel.com.au (pecan.exetel.com.au [220.233.0.17]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4A6rO5n097532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 00:53:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendaslists@exemail.com.au) Received: from 249.88.233.220.exetel.com.au ([220.233.88.249] helo=DF3TNM1S) by pecan.exetel.com.au with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hm2Wg-0006A5-NR for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 May 2007 16:53:23 +1000 From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "'Historical Costume'" References: <200705081801.l48I0U86081611@net.indra.com><46418F0702000014000D0EF1@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> <20070509100628.s9cjx3x2b7cw0c4g@www.goldsword.com> Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 16:53:16 +1000 Message-ID: <002901c792cf$e32f9360$0b02a8c0@DF3TNM1S> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Thread-Index: AceSQ08M0dH0FpceTdCd3tpVOPyh3AAi/Oxw In-Reply-To: <20070509100628.s9cjx3x2b7cw0c4g@www.goldsword.com> X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8f061723-f711-4f62-8f72-6d44f52f3dcd X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4642C188.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 02:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Don't ask why, but I looked for a good close-up pic: http://www.christusrex.org/www2/berry/DB-f2v-d3l.jpg (No blurring here...) However, it does show that the woman to the left of the man is showing all as well. I can understand though - it's quite cold outside, and I've done similar (however, I am not so authentic at reenactment events that I remove my modern underwear when wearing skirts ) Glenda. -----Original Message----- Yeah. It's February. All the dangly bits are in plain view. susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 05:37:10 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4A9b9fC027830 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 05:37:09 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4A9atwr025972 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 05:36:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4A9aLd2076015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 03:36:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4A9aIwH067842; Thu, 10 May 2007 03:36:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mail.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4A9aFYR067798 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 03:36:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Migrationbird@aol.com) Received: from Migrationbird@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.d06.f364dd1 (32913) for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 05:35:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Migrationbird@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 05:35:59 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10502 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: 30s Rayon Prints X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b29dbdce-1138-4a42-bba3-e96418c8766b X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 4642E7B7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 05:36:59 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Silvia , You might try www.reproductionfabrics.com I can remember my Grandmother wearing some of the Shaker greys in the early 50s. Her taste had not moved on from the 30s. Good hunting Joy. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 08:20:12 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ACKC4U024160 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 08:20:12 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4ACJvvh024974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 08:20:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4ACJRoJ095497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 06:19:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ACJLtl060018; Thu, 10 May 2007 06:19:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from relay1.netspeed.com.au (relay1.netspeed.com.au [202.78.47.26]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ACJFVh059937 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 06:19:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@netspeed.com.au) Received: from netspeed.com.au (unverified [202.78.47.28]) by NSmailstor (SurgeMail 3.8f) with ESMTP id 16650198-1804220 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 22:19:55 +1000 Received: from [192.168.0.2] (unverified [210.9.143.17]) by NSmailstor (SurgeMail 3.8g) with ESMTP id 54947421-1803868 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 22:15:03 +1000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.2.5.060620 Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 22:19:11 +1000 From: Aylwen & John Garden To: "Historical Costume " Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Missing messages Thread-Index: AceS/Wo7qJJshP7wEdunBAADk7ERAA== In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-X-Authenticated-User: garden@netspeed.com.au X-X-SpamDetect: : 0.000000 X-Info: aspam skipped due to (g_smite_skip_auth) X-ShareWhite: 210.9.143.17 X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 0, First 22, in=74, out=0, spam=0 Known=true ip=210.9.143.17 X-Originating-IP: 210.9.143.17 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Missing messages X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 715674f9-c9d5-40c8-8fb3-2a680453d865 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46430DED.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 08:20:01 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Greetings. I lost some of my messages on the list some time today. The last one I got was Lynn embroidered cuff message. If there were any others, can someone forward them to me, please? Many thanks, Aylwen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 08:59:56 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ACxtQ7025614 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 08:59:55 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4ACxfkk005427 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 08:59:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4ACvBpm000981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 06:57:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ACv95d081699; Thu, 10 May 2007 06:57:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep34.mail.dk (fep34.mail.dk [80.160.76.198]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ACv6Q3081630 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 06:57:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep44.mail.dk ([195.41.46.227]) by fep34.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070510125700.FETV3403.fep34.mail.dk@fep44.mail.dk> for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 14:57:00 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.164.110.194]) by fep44.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070510125700.CYFG1161.fep44.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 14:57:00 +0200 Message-ID: <001f01c79302$b6da0e70$c26ea450@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <46429C33.5050007@wideopenwest.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's upcoming Inspiration article. Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 14:57:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep44.mail.dk from [80.164.110.194] at Thu, 10 May 2007 14:56:55 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=18% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1a8b7a06-7594-4cbe-8c26-8ac0f4a7d2ba X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 4643173D.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 08:59:45 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO The previous issue is number 54 and they told me i would be in number 55 wich comes in august. It seems to be that i only wil have the interwiev with pictures, they were interrested in gettning the embroidery pattern for my embroidered bird stomacher, but i dont think it wil come because i should have heard from them but have not. Also i told them i thoaght it was very rude that they dont pay their contributors who gives away embroidery designs for the magazine, actually we are in the year 2007, not 1880. But isnt this typically, because its most ladies who gives away their work for free, i think its about time, they get paid!!! Same with my kind of work, i work in nursing old people, and they pay us very poor, also because it still is womans work, typically Comeon ladies, you must insist to be payed well!!! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michelle Plumb" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 6:14 AM Subject: [h-cost] Bjarne's upcoming Inspiration article. > Bjarne, there seems to be some confusion about which issue you will be > appearing in. > > I sent in a pre-order for issue August issue #57 (as you mentioned), and > was told that issue #57 wouldn't be available until 23 Jan 2008. > > Has there been some sort of mixup? > Michelle, looking forward excitedly to your feature! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 10:23:31 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AENVek028567 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:23:31 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4AENGlR029972 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 10:23:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4AEKoPo065172 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 08:20:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AEKlOb049791; Thu, 10 May 2007 08:20:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s18.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s18.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.90]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AEKg4f049639 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 08:20:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.11]) by bay0-omc1-s18.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Thu, 10 May 2007 07:20:37 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 10 May 2007 07:20:37 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 70.56.178.22 by BAY133-DAV1.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 10 May 2007 14:20:35 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.56.178.22] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200705081801.l48I0U86081611@net.indra.com><46418F0702000014000D0EF1@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk><20070509100628.s9cjx3x2b7cw0c4g@www.goldsword.com> <002901c792cf$e32f9360$0b02a8c0@DF3TNM1S> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 07:20:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 10 May 2007 07:20:36 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 May 2007 14:20:37.0510 (UTC) FILETIME=[61547A60:01C7930E] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a750e24c-4ede-49d7-9eaa-a5447c8522a8 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 46432AD4.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! 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An interesting = study on perspective -Ahem (again!) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Glenda Robinson=20 To: 'Historical Costume'=20 Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 11:53 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Don't ask why, but I looked for a good close-up pic: = http://www.christusrex.org/www2/berry/DB-f2v-d3l.jpg (No blurring here...) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 10:46:24 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AEkOqJ029411 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:46:24 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4AEkA3k024007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 10:46:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4AEjn2g036006 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 08:45:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AEjlqs071146; Thu, 10 May 2007 08:45:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AEjfSK070970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 08:45:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hm9tg-0004kk-NO; Thu, 10 May 2007 09:45:37 -0500 Received: from 65.13.105.239 ([65.13.105.239]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:45:35 -0400 Message-ID: <20070510104535.gp5v98xdv34g4s44@www.goldsword.com> Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 10:45:35 -0400 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting References: <200705081801.l48I0U86081611@net.indra.com><46418F0702000014000D0EF1@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> <20070509100628.s9cjx3x2b7cw0c4g@www.goldsword.com> <002901c792cf$e32f9360$0b02a8c0@DF3TNM1S> In-Reply-To: <002901c792cf$e32f9360$0b02a8c0@DF3TNM1S> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/horde/imp/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/horde/imp X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4779979d-481c-4521-ae29-c880daa23a6e X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 46433032.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 10:46:14 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Quoting Glenda Robinson : > Don't ask why, but I looked for a good close-up pic: > > http://www.christusrex.org/www2/berry/DB-f2v-d3l.jpg (No blurring here...) > > However, it does show that the woman to the left of the man is showing all > as well. > LOL! I'd never noticed the woman before! susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 11:25:33 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AFPWhD030731 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 11:25:32 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4AFPIbp003378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 11:25:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4AFOW3a048417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 09:24:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AFOSfx006041; Thu, 10 May 2007 09:24:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.38]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AFON2O005880 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 09:24:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAALzVQkbUSnINk2dsb2JhbACPfAEBAQEHBggMHw Received: from [80.41.69.162] (port=1797 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-relay-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.66 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HmAV7-000Cwe-6o for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 10 May 2007 16:24:17 +0100 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20070510162232.023fd520@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 16:24:17 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting In-Reply-To: <20070510104535.gp5v98xdv34g4s44@www.goldsword.com> References: <200705081801.l48I0U86081611@net.indra.com> <46418F0702000014000D0EF1@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> <20070509100628.s9cjx3x2b7cw0c4g@www.goldsword.com> <002901c792cf$e32f9360$0b02a8c0@DF3TNM1S> <20070510104535.gp5v98xdv34g4s44@www.goldsword.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=50% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8ed6158d-20a9-4056-9a23-3cac01fd92b2 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 4643395E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 11:25:22 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At 15:45 10/05/2007, you wrote: >Quoting Glenda Robinson : > >>Don't ask why, but I looked for a good close-up pic: >> >>http://www.christusrex.org/www2/berry/DB-f2v-d3l.jpg (No blurring here...) >> >>However, it does show that the woman to the left of the man is showing all >>as well. > >LOL! I'd never noticed the woman before! > >susan Did they not have - errm - furry bits or hair then? They look "added on" to me, but then what do I know? Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 11:31:05 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AFV5Yr030988 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 11:31:05 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4AFUpZK018484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 11:30:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4AFUDgW049683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 09:30:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AFUBNe011375; Thu, 10 May 2007 09:30:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zixvpm01.creighton.edu (ZIXVPM01.creighton.edu [147.134.0.65]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AFU6pE011270 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 09:30:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cynthiaabel@creighton.edu) Received: from zixvpm01.creighton.edu (ZixVPM [127.0.0.1]) by Outbound.creighton.edu (Proprietary) with ESMTP id 002542E824D for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:23:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by zixvpm01.creighton.edu (Proprietary) with ESMTP id C25022E80B8 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:23:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_29774)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12080 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 10:30:04 -0500 (CDT) x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [h-cost] Bjarne's upcoming Inspiration article. Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 10:29:00 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001f01c79302$b6da0e70$c26ea450@CPQ21932199711> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Bjarne's upcoming Inspiration article. Thread-Index: AceTAwV/lx7ClU59QgixMZ6n8C+NUQAEyCsg References: <46429C33.5050007@wideopenwest.com> <001f01c79302$b6da0e70$c26ea450@CPQ21932199711> From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5ae44fbb-15d4-4483-af7b-688a7cdd7a5a X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 46433AAB.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 11:30:55 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Bjarne: Many contributors to journals don't get paid unless they are on the journal's staff or on contract. Possibly just as well they might not include the pattern, because lots of contributors also have to sign away their rights to journals, which might include the pattern. Not getting paid by the journal that publishes your work is quite common, especially in the academic community, where tenure and career advancement rides on "getting published or perishing" Journal publishers see themselves as taking all the monetary risk and contributors should be grateful that their work sees the light of day, in their view. This attitude has existed since Gutenburg, when printers/publishers did run huge risks, both monetary and political if someone in power didn't approve of what they published. The solution to this is having your website or other information about contacting you if readers are interested in that pattern, printed in that issue. You might be able to sell copies of your work in that way and make a little money. I once bought a pattern for a really authentic 1880's doll outfit by contacting the contributor whose contact info was at the end of the article she created. Excellent little pattern, by the way, with more contruction information than most magazines can include with their patterns. Bonne chance!! Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 7:57 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's upcoming Inspiration article. The previous issue is number 54 and they told me i would be in number 55 wich comes in august. It seems to be that i only wil have the interwiev with pictures, they were interrested in gettning the embroidery pattern for my embroidered bird stomacher, but i dont think it wil come because i should have heard from them but have not. Also i told them i thoaght it was very rude that they dont pay their contributors who gives away embroidery designs for the magazine, actually we are in the year 2007, not 1880. But isnt this typically, because its most ladies who gives away their work for free, i think its about time, they get paid!!! Same with my kind of work, i work in nursing old people, and they pay us very poor, also because it still is womans work, typically Comeon ladies, you must insist to be payed well!!! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michelle Plumb" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 6:14 AM Subject: [h-cost] Bjarne's upcoming Inspiration article. > Bjarne, there seems to be some confusion about which issue you will be > appearing in. > > I sent in a pre-order for issue August issue #57 (as you mentioned), and=20 > was told that issue #57 wouldn't be available until 23 Jan 2008. > > Has there been some sort of mixup? > Michelle, looking forward excitedly to your feature! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >=20 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 14:14:00 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AIDxLT004538 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 14:13:59 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4AIDjW3015922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 14:13:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4AICwLS079683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 12:12:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AIColv065039; Thu, 10 May 2007 12:12:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s17.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s17.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.217]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AICjmQ064826 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 12:12:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from praxis_729@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.19.20]) by bay0-omc3-s17.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Thu, 10 May 2007 11:12:40 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 10 May 2007 11:12:37 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.19.200 by by109fd.bay109.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 10 May 2007 18:12:32 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.133.199.144] X-Originating-Email: [praxis_729@hotmail.com] X-Sender: praxis_729@hotmail.com From: "Paula Praxis" To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 11:12:32 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 May 2007 18:12:37.0531 (UTC) FILETIME=[CA4F1EB0:01C7932E] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Subject: [h-cost] Getting paid X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ef15adf5-db0c-4b92-9566-48acf89f1f8f X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 464360D9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 14:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Bjarne, You are sooooo right. Men and women who care for others - I'm not talking doctors and nurses in hospitals, but the everyday people who hold hands, bring food, bathe bodies-these poeple should get better pay. So should people like you who keep alive beautiful hand craft skills such as embroidery- yours is exquisite - and I know there are others out there like you who love and recreate historic designs. I love this list, it gives me inspriation and a place to connect with others that love the historic fashions - the grand and the small details. _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazine’s 2007 editors’ choice for best Web mail—award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 14:34:42 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AIYeh4005357 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 14:34:40 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4AIYQPo020990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 14:34:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4AIXg3Y082578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 12:33:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AIXaDe085944; Thu, 10 May 2007 12:33:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.wightman.on.ca (server01.gorrie.wightman.ca [216.110.227.151]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AIXKJj085708 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 12:33:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix, from userid 99) id 0B4D2849D5; Thu, 10 May 2007 14:33:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on server01.gorrie X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100 autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 Received: from MAIN (dsl-v45-216-110-230-37.wightman.ca [216.110.230.37]) by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4278F848B4 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 14:33:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Five Rivers Chapmanry" To: Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 14:33:17 -0400 Organization: Five Rivers Message-ID: <000201c79331$adaac900$6400a8c0@MAIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6822 Importance: Normal Thread-Index: AceTLYbvEt+791fIRdaXj8LCoyR/sgAAxHMg In-Reply-To: <200705101800.l4AI07Fq052444@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Bjarne's upcoming Inspiration article X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: e355e272-0ce5-4b68-912f-b1bb5343755b X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 464365B2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 14:34:29 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I'm quite in Bjarne's camp on this one; people should get paid for their work, regardless of gender or whatever. There's no such thing as 'building a resume' in that regard, because it has been my experience = that once the 'for profit' world finds out you've been giving away your work = to the 'not for profit' world, they will treat you exactly the same way: = cheap, easy labour. And it doesn't matter what industry you're in, the same = rule applies. I'm going through this exact problem atm with a company that designs visuals for museums and historical sites. Huge company. International. They're being paid rather handsomely by the not for profit commission they're representing. And they're expecting my husband to simply hand = over one time publication rights to a particular photograph in our Niagara Escarpment book. When I said that wasn't good enough, they came back = with a sum so ludicrously small as to be an insult, reminding me their client = was a not for profit organization. I politely reminded the woman representing = the company that their client may be not for profit, but we aren't, and for = that matter neither is the company, and that perhaps she'd want to reconsider = her offer. No, if your work is not worth being paid for, then it's not worth giving away either. End of story. Rant off. Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage, embroidery supplies; fine, original textile, pen and ink, and watercolour art. Now available: = Recipes of a Dumb Housewife, by Lorina Stephens 519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition.=20 Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.6/795 - Release Date: 5/9/2007 = 3:07 PM =20 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 15:27:26 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AJRP8A007302 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 15:27:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4AJRB2m017640 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 15:27:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4AJQM3J090766 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 13:26:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AJQIiU033236; Thu, 10 May 2007 13:26:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AJQBpS033117 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 13:26:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [209.148.118.200] (209-148-118-200.dial.dynamic.sonic.net [209.148.118.200]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l4AJQ8AB008854 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 12:26:09 -0700 Message-ID: <464371D0.3010608@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 12:26:08 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's upcoming Inspiration article. References: <46429C33.5050007@wideopenwest.com> <001f01c79302$b6da0e70$c26ea450@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 97de696e-e156-4111-9b3e-1a607665b385 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 4643720F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 15:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I missed the beginning of this thread. However: Is _Inspiration_ the commercial smocking/embroidery magazine? In the world of academia--which that magazine isn't--contributors seldom get paid much for journal contributions because journal articles advance their careers in other important ways, such as helping them to get tenure. (However, academics do get paid for writing books, and textbooks [though less often scholarly books] can be very lucrative.) In the world of journalism, where I've spent quite some time as a writer, and as an in-house editor--payment has nothing to do with gender. Every magazine has its own pay scale for articles, and there are books for writers that tell you what the pay scales of various magazines are. Also, sometimes the magazine tells writers what the scale is in their standard guidelines--most magazines have a standard set of writer's guidelines that writers should ask for and read before submitting anything. The pay scale set by a magazine is based on what that particular magazine can pay for articles. The more prestigious the magazine, the better its pay scale. Magazines with larger circulations and that sell more ads pay more. Magazines that make less money from ad sales (advertisers pay more to be in a magazine with larger circulation) pay their contributors less. Publications that pay very little or nothing, often rely heavily on contributors who want to publish articles for reasons other than money--for advertising a business they own, services they sell, or a book they have published--in short the way they are making their real money. Or by people who are not professional writers, who would just like an article or two published for personal reasons. Low-pay magazines also used to rely on reprints from other magazines, though I suspect the widespread purchase of e-rights is impacting the reprint market heavily. A once-common journalistic strategy that I followed, was to sell first serial rights to an article to the magazine that paid best, and then sell second rights to every other magazine possible, starting with the ones that paid best for second rights and working my way down, till the article had finally been exposed to everyone who might want to publish it. Before magazines wanted to retain rights to publish on the Internet for no more pay, it used to be possible to sell second rights to the same article a dozen or more times. (In US copyright law, there is no such thing as third, fourth, etc. serial rights. Everything sold after first serial rights is second rights, so publications all know that when they buy second rights they are not getting anything exclusive.) Professional journalists view career success according to the level of magazine they publish in. They may start out with low-pay or even no-pay publications, but they quit "selling" to those as fast as possible--after one or two articles--because obviously, such "sales" don't pay the rent. It's not quite like getting entries on your resume for applying for a job. Sure, having more published articles on your resume, and saying you have published with more prestigious publications, does help. But, if you write freelance articles, you can show the publication the goods before sale. That is, you can write "on spec" and just send in the article. That is what beginning journalists usually do. Then, as soon as possible, you start selling articles on the basis of an outline and the "clips" of your previous work--photocopies of other articles that have been published. You get a kind of down payment at the beginning, or at least a contract saying the magazine want the articles and will pay for it when it is submitted or published--and specifying a "kill fee" and the return of copyright if they accept the article but later decide not to publish it. The other thing journalists often do, is to also make money by editing, by photography, and by other related pursuits, for which the same experience and professional contacts are valuable. Also, some magazines and newspapers have some articles written by staff, so you can apply for full-time staff jobs as a writer + editor, or just as a writer or as an editor. There are many books for journalists that explain how to do all this. It's hard to get paid fairly for your work--at least, without all those second rights sales to repay you for your initial time. But, it has nothing to do with being female. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Abel, Cynthia wrote: > Bjarne: > > Many contributors to journals don't get paid unless they are on the > journal's staff or on contract. > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews > Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 7:57 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's upcoming Inspiration article. > > The previous issue is number 54 and they told me i would be in number 55 > wich comes in august. > It seems to be that i only wil have the interwiev with pictures, they > were interrested in gettning the embroidery pattern for my embroidered > bird stomacher, but i dont think it wil come because i should have heard > from them but have not. > Also i told them i thoaght it was very rude that they dont pay their > contributors who gives away embroidery designs for the magazine, > actually we are in the year 2007, not 1880. > But isnt this typically, because its most ladies who gives away their > work for free, i think its about time, they get paid!!! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 16:06:34 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AK6YTA008818 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 16:06:34 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4AK6Kqo000768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 16:06:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4AK5eAL096296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 14:05:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AK5bue067251; Thu, 10 May 2007 14:05:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp109.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (smtp109.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.208]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4AK5WQV067113 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 14:05:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from recon36@airmail.net) Received: (qmail 55574 invoked from network); 10 May 2007 20:05:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.100?) (edwalton@swbell.net@70.251.74.143 with plain) by smtp109.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 May 2007 20:05:27 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 2u6gW4gVM1lBpT085aDcrq1ymExLouqgpR.7yGWeIcHrtPyGbYOkUbpdBukH73gJ4zFT0WBzSxn0U5tg2g8BCNjKCNYVUqjO68zFweWjypRinC5d9pk- Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070510162232.023fd520@suziclarke.co.uk> References: <200705081801.l48I0U86081611@net.indra.com> <46418F0702000014000D0EF1@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> <20070509100628.s9cjx3x2b7cw0c4g@www.goldsword.com> <002901c792cf$e32f9360$0b02a8c0@DF3TNM1S> <20070510104535.gp5v98xdv34g4s44@www.goldsword.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20070510162232.023fd520@suziclarke.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <6DAC6219-52CC-488E-A368-00D303190F85@airmail.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ed Walton Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 15:05:23 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 78d4707e-fb67-451f-97e3-1973db069a8a X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46437B3C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 16:06:24 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On May 10, 2007, at 10:24, Suzi Clarke wrote: > > Did they not have - errm - furry bits or hair then? They look > "added on" to me, but then what do I know? > > Suzi > Well, the Roman look is back in these days, so maybe it was enjoying a revival in the middle ages. Ed Walton Lost Battalions Military Reproductions http://www.lostbattalions.com 972-690-1945 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 16:40:56 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AKeuEv010076 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 16:40:56 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4AKefcX015074 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 16:40:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4AKdqUh001478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 14:39:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AKdmYv094397; Thu, 10 May 2007 14:39:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep31.mail.dk (fep31.mail.dk [80.160.76.195]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ADJCmW096478 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 07:19:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep42.mail.dk ([195.41.46.225]) by fep31.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070510131906.GHCI21129.fep31.mail.dk@fep42.mail.dk> for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 15:19:06 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.164.110.194]) by fep42.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070510131906.DTIZ1153.fep42.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 15:19:06 +0200 Message-ID: <000401c79305$d06e7d50$c26ea450@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <46429C33.5050007@wideopenwest.com> <001f01c79302$b6da0e70$c26ea450@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's upcoming Inspiration article. Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 15:19:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep42.mail.dk from [80.164.110.194] at Thu, 10 May 2007 15:19:04 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=20% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b913865c-1ded-48e2-ada4-cf52399c9d94 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 46438349.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 16:40:45 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Sorry, not the previous, the current off cause........ Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's upcoming Inspiration article. > The previous issue is number 54 and they told me i would be in number 55 > wich comes in august. > It seems to be that i only wil have the interwiev with pictures, they were > interrested in gettning the embroidery pattern for my embroidered bird > stomacher, but i dont think it wil come because i should have heard from > them but have not. > Also i told them i thoaght it was very rude that they dont pay their > contributors who gives away embroidery designs for the magazine, actually > we are in the year 2007, not 1880. > But isnt this typically, because its most ladies who gives away their work > for free, i think its about time, they get paid!!! > Same with my kind of work, i work in nursing old people, and they pay us > very poor, also because it still is womans work, typically > Comeon ladies, you must insist to be payed well!!! > > > > Bjarne > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michelle Plumb" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 6:14 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Bjarne's upcoming Inspiration article. > > >> Bjarne, there seems to be some confusion about which issue you will be >> appearing in. >> >> I sent in a pre-order for issue August issue #57 (as you mentioned), and >> was told that issue #57 wouldn't be available until 23 Jan 2008. >> >> Has there been some sort of mixup? >> Michelle, looking forward excitedly to your feature! >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 16:47:26 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AKlQgE010278 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 16:47:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4AKlCID009665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 16:47:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4AKkcjI002758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 14:46:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AKkafE000855; Thu, 10 May 2007 14:46:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep30.mail.dk (fep30.mail.dk [80.160.76.194]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AItOqO005833 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 12:55:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep47.mail.dk ([195.41.46.230]) by fep30.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070510185518.UFOW29039.fep30.mail.dk@fep47.mail.dk> for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 20:55:18 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.164.110.194]) by fep47.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070510185518.VPFA20303.fep47.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 20:55:18 +0200 Message-ID: <000b01c79334$cd626a70$c26ea450@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 20:55:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep47.mail.dk from [80.164.110.194] at Thu, 10 May 2007 20:55:17 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=20% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] womans 18th century cap X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b5f18dd8-2f3d-411c-a54b-c7f2a18b704a X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 464384D0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 16:47:16 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I just watched Barry Lyndon, where towards the end, Redmonds mother is wearing a small cap wich is made entirely of a piece of lace wich is gathered into a rosette in the top, and spreading out on the hair all way round. I have not seen this type in any portraits, but i wondered if it would not be very likely someone in 18th century did the same, so simple just gather a lace to a cap? Well its for the red dress i am making, i have promised her to make a wide brimmed silk taffeta hat, but for indoors she could wear this lace frill? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 16:47:34 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AKlY9w010288 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 16:47:34 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4AKlKtk001396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 16:47:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4AKkqSl002783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 14:46:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AKkpm6001063; Thu, 10 May 2007 14:46:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep30.mail.dk (fep30.mail.dk [80.160.76.194]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AIumnb007054 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 12:56:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep47.mail.dk ([195.41.46.230]) by fep30.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070510185643.UGWX29039.fep30.mail.dk@fep47.mail.dk> for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 20:56:43 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.164.110.194]) by fep47.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070510185643.VPGE20303.fep47.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 20:56:43 +0200 Message-ID: <000e01c79335$0002ed10$c26ea450@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Getting paid Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 20:57:02 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep47.mail.dk from [80.164.110.194] at Thu, 10 May 2007 20:56:42 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=20% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: d6c5e8aa-3f3a-46d8-be78-fc43d3e24bc8 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464384D8.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 16:47:24 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Dear paula, Thanks, i guess you are in the buisinees two? or perhaps knows something about it. Its just so annoying that the world is so hard to change in some parts............... Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paula Praxis" To: Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 8:12 PM Subject: [h-cost] Getting paid > Bjarne, You are sooooo right. Men and women who care for others - I'm > not talking doctors and nurses in hospitals, but the everyday people who > hold hands, bring food, bathe bodies-these poeple should get better pay. > So should people like you who keep alive beautiful hand craft skills such > as embroidery- yours is exquisite - and I know there are others out there > like you who love and recreate historic designs. I love this list, it > gives me inspriation and a place to connect with others that love the > historic fashions - the grand and the small details. > > _________________________________________________________________ > PC Magazine's 2007 editors' choice for best Web mail-award-winning Windows > Live Hotmail. > http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 16:47:51 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AKlpwj010312 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 16:47:51 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4AKlaFT001246 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 16:47:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4AKl0Do002827 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 14:47:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AKkxf6001184; Thu, 10 May 2007 14:46:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep35.mail.dk (fep35.mail.dk [80.160.76.199]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AIwQsm008378 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 12:58:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep41.mail.dk ([195.41.46.142]) by fep35.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070510185820.USZC24347.fep35.mail.dk@fep41.mail.dk> for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 20:58:20 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.164.110.194]) by fep41.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070510185820.DDGU1370.fep41.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 20:58:20 +0200 Message-ID: <001301c79335$39cf38a0$c26ea450@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000201c79331$adaac900$6400a8c0@MAIN> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Bjarne's upcoming Inspiration article Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 20:58:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep41.mail.dk from [80.164.110.194] at Thu, 10 May 2007 20:58:18 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=22% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8d16dede-fa8d-4950-bc3a-bb2b994d41cd X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 464384E8.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 16:47:40 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Thanks Lorina, Also of the answer about the womans haircap. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Five Rivers Chapmanry" To: Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 8:33 PM Subject: [h-cost] RE: Bjarne's upcoming Inspiration article I'm quite in Bjarne's camp on this one; people should get paid for their work, regardless of gender or whatever. There's no such thing as 'building a resume' in that regard, because it has been my experience that once the 'for profit' world finds out you've been giving away your work to the 'not for profit' world, they will treat you exactly the same way: cheap, easy labour. And it doesn't matter what industry you're in, the same rule applies. I'm going through this exact problem atm with a company that designs visuals for museums and historical sites. Huge company. International. They're being paid rather handsomely by the not for profit commission they're representing. And they're expecting my husband to simply hand over one time publication rights to a particular photograph in our Niagara Escarpment book. When I said that wasn't good enough, they came back with a sum so ludicrously small as to be an insult, reminding me their client was a not for profit organization. I politely reminded the woman representing the company that their client may be not for profit, but we aren't, and for that matter neither is the company, and that perhaps she'd want to reconsider her offer. No, if your work is not worth being paid for, then it's not worth giving away either. End of story. Rant off. Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage, embroidery supplies; fine, original textile, pen and ink, and watercolour art. Now available: Recipes of a Dumb Housewife, by Lorina Stephens 519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.6/795 - Release Date: 5/9/2007 3:07 PM _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 17:16:29 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ALGSqR011005 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 17:16:28 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4ALGEfY024796 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 17:16:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4ALFI4o006564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 15:15:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ALFG9c023769; Thu, 10 May 2007 15:15:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ALFCpt023660 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 15:15:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.c3c.137f71b7 (14457) for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 17:14:49 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 17:14:49 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] womans 18th century cap To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5366 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7d8147a3-2ec5-4078-9c86-952197f3f14b X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46438B9E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 17:16:18 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/10/2007 4:47:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: Well its for the red dress i am making, i have promised her to make a wide brimmed silk taffeta hat, but for indoors she could wear this lace frill? ********************** Indeed. She can wear the lace cap under a flat hat...which comes off indoors. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 18:20:10 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AMK9hu012293 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 18:20:10 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4AMJsE1005062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 18:19:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4AMJIV9013471 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 16:19:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AMJAaq070830; Thu, 10 May 2007 16:19:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pecan.exetel.com.au (pecan.exetel.com.au [220.233.0.17]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AMJ5lq070766 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 16:19:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendaslists@exemail.com.au) Received: from 249.88.233.220.exetel.com.au ([220.233.88.249] helo=DF3TNM1S) by pecan.exetel.com.au with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HmGyW-0008SF-Bx for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 11 May 2007 08:19:04 +1000 From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "'Historical Costume'" References: <200705081801.l48I0U86081611@net.indra.com><46418F0702000014000D0EF1@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk><20070509100628.s9cjx3x2b7cw0c4g@www.goldsword.com><002901c792cf$e32f9360$0b02a8c0@DF3TNM1S><20070510104535.gp5v98xdv34g4s44@www.goldsword.com><7.0.1.0.2.20070510162232.023fd520@suziclarke.co.uk> <6DAC6219-52CC-488E-A368-00D303190F85@airmail.net> Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 08:18:59 +1000 Message-ID: <004101c79351$34eb2c10$0b02a8c0@DF3TNM1S> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Thread-Index: AceTPqNHNucA876tQDSG8Iiwc+ZHxQAEnC1Q In-Reply-To: <6DAC6219-52CC-488E-A368-00D303190F85@airmail.net> X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ac660e1b-e8d8-4633-9c4f-8f5e4235f258 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46439A8A.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 18:19:58 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO My husband wondered it it was because they had stood to close to the fire ... Glenda. -----Original Message----- Well, the Roman look is back in these days, so maybe it was enjoying a revival in the middle ages. Ed Walton _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 18:27:51 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AMRosm012431 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 18:27:50 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4AMRaaZ031088 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 18:27:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4AMQwdH014272 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 16:26:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AMQvjU076278; Thu, 10 May 2007 16:26:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pecan.exetel.com.au (pecan.exetel.com.au [220.233.0.17]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AMQr6g076229 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 16:26:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendaslists@exemail.com.au) Received: from 249.88.233.220.exetel.com.au ([220.233.88.249] helo=DF3TNM1S) by pecan.exetel.com.au with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HmH64-0000UO-IQ for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 11 May 2007 08:26:52 +1000 From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "'Historical Costume'" References: <200705081801.l48I0U86081611@net.indra.com><46418F0702000014000D0EF1@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk><20070509100628.s9cjx3x2b7cw0c4g@www.goldsword.com><002901c792cf$e32f9360$0b02a8c0@DF3TNM1S><20070510104535.gp5v98xdv34g4s44@www.goldsword.com><7.0.1.0.2.20070510162232.023fd520@suziclarke.co.uk><6DAC6219-52CC-488E-A368-00D303190F85@airmail.net> <004101c79351$34eb2c10$0b02a8c0@DF3TNM1S> Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 08:26:47 +1000 Message-ID: <004201c79352$4c0b9fa0$0b02a8c0@DF3TNM1S> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Thread-Index: AceTPqNHNucA876tQDSG8Iiwc+ZHxQAEnC1QAAA66rA= In-Reply-To: <004101c79351$34eb2c10$0b02a8c0@DF3TNM1S> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: fa9dd3e7-a148-4222-a01f-f5584e905b69 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 46439C58.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 18:27:40 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO My husband has now suggested something more reasonable - they could be children! As perspective wasn't used in artworks as yet, children were usually pictured as small adults, so it could well be the two kids of the house warming themselves by the fire. Glenda. -----Original Message----- My husband wondered it it was because they had stood to close to the fire ... Glenda. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 18:33:18 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AMXHWl012630 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 18:33:17 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4AMX34G023836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 18:33:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4AMWajQ014900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 16:32:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AMWZZf080123; Thu, 10 May 2007 16:32:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zixvpm01.creighton.edu (ZIXVPM01.creighton.edu [147.134.0.65]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AMWVR8080073 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 16:32:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cynthiaabel@creighton.edu) Received: from zixvpm01.creighton.edu (ZixVPM [127.0.0.1]) by Outbound.creighton.edu (Proprietary) with ESMTP id 6927C2E81D1 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 17:26:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by zixvpm01.creighton.edu (Proprietary) with ESMTP id E72CF2E81AC for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 17:26:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_29774)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24414 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 17:32:29 -0500 (CDT) x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [h-cost] womans 18th century cap Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 17:32:28 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] womans 18th century cap Thread-Index: AceTSFuniAK5Rzi7RBSxghO9VDi/XQACUvsw References: From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ea3af3fc-8ba7-4b07-943c-04d6404dc717 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 46439D9F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 18:33:07 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO =20 Caps, whatever the style and color, were quite popular during the 18th and early 19th century. Mostly they were meant for older women, but younger women, like Jane Austen and her sister, wore caps on a regular basis--Jane famously wrote that her caps saved her much time in hairdressing.It probably left her more time to write as well! Also such caps were practical overall, keeping hair covered and out of the way and hiding a bad hair day. For those without a hairdresser on call or a maid, caps, bonnets and whatever were probably essential. Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of AlbertCat@aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 4:15 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] womans 18th century cap =20 In a message dated 5/10/2007 4:47:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: Well its for the red dress i am making, i have promised her to make a wide brimmed silk taffeta hat, but for indoors she could wear this lace frill? ********************** =20 Indeed. She can wear the lace cap under a flat hat...which comes off indoors. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 19:08:32 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AN8WQv013254 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 19:08:32 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4AN8HUh003979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 19:08:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4AN7sb4020234 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 17:07:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AN7qQs006058; Thu, 10 May 2007 17:07:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s21.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s21.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.93]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4AN7nMM005966 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 17:07:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.161.49]) by bay0-omc1-s21.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Thu, 10 May 2007 16:07:44 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 10 May 2007 16:07:44 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 10 May 2007 23:07:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [71.121.71.98] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 23:07:40 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 May 2007 23:07:44.0429 (UTC) FILETIME=[047155D0:01C79358] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a4c62f3e-34fb-42f1-bc48-f67a2fdc9d0e X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4643A5E2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 19:08:21 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I've been trying to post to this thread and I keep getting this message back. What's the problem? Janet From: h-costume-owner@indra.com To: bear_janet@msn.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 16:57:28 -0600 >The message's content type was not explicitly allowed > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 19:29:50 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ANTnLQ013629 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 19:29:49 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4ANTZlt029600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 19:29:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4ANSfw2023307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 17:28:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ANSc7c019722; Thu, 10 May 2007 17:28:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pecan.exetel.com.au (pecan.exetel.com.au [220.233.0.17]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ANSXaI019681 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 17:28:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendaslists@exemail.com.au) Received: from 249.88.233.220.exetel.com.au ([220.233.88.249] helo=DF3TNM1S) by pecan.exetel.com.au with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HmI3k-0006KC-7y for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 11 May 2007 09:28:32 +1000 From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "'Historical Costume'" References: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 09:28:26 +1000 Message-ID: <004501c7935a$e9129f80$0b02a8c0@DF3TNM1S> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Thread-Index: AceTWBtu7fMmEbufRyehWYdGwbCKqAAArAcg In-Reply-To: X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 16a0381a-4ebb-4a1a-b9e8-fc40d95c46c8 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 4643AADF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 19:29:38 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi Janet, Had a quick look on Google - maybe it's been sent in HTML rather than plain text? Glenda -----Original Message----- I've been trying to post to this thread and I keep getting this message back. What's the problem? Janet >The message's content type was not explicitly allowed > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 10 19:37:47 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ANblDu013766 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 19:37:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4ANbXxk001368 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 10 May 2007 19:37:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4ANb5Oi024579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 17:37:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ANb493024986; Thu, 10 May 2007 17:37:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from barra1.swissinfo.org ([146.159.6.75]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ANb01D024911 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 17:37:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from swissgirl@swissinfo.org) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1178840209-3dd600010001-L6CAXr X-Barracuda-URL: http://146.159.6.75:8000/cgi-bin/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Connect: kuma.sri.ch[194.6.181.33] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1178840209 X-ASG-Whitelist: Sender Received: from mail.swissinfo.org (kuma.sri.ch [194.6.181.33]) by barra1.swissinfo.org (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id 2675456901 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 01:36:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from compaqub (24.216.120.37) by mail.swissinfo.org (7.2.064.1) (authenticated as swissgirl) id 45DAE0BC0361050A for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 11 May 2007 01:16:15 +0200 Message-ID: <013201c79359$43e43470$dd00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 18:16:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Barracuda-Virus-Scanned: by Barracuda Spam Firewall at swissinfo.org X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a1e335fe-5bcf-4860-97e7-e4486c5a8159 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4643ACBD.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 10 May 2007 19:37:37 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO My thought (on the February image) was always that it was due to lice or the like... -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 11 01:02:44 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4B52i24022699 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 01:02:44 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4B52Uh0007720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 May 2007 01:02:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4B51sr0054665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 10 May 2007 23:01:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4B51HIP080068; Thu, 10 May 2007 23:01:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s31.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s31.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.231]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4B51Dr6080008 for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 23:01:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.161.35]) by bay0-omc3-s31.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Thu, 10 May 2007 22:01:08 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 10 May 2007 22:01:08 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 11 May 2007 05:01:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [71.121.71.98] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com In-Reply-To: <004501c7935a$e9129f80$0b02a8c0@DF3TNM1S> From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 05:01:02 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 May 2007 05:01:08.0048 (UTC) FILETIME=[62C8D500:01C79389] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ccf2045f-7d16-4913-b460-3117c2e13c3e X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4643F8E6.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 11 May 2007 01:02:34 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO But I've always sent my h-costume messages in HTML. I leave that as my standard e-mail setting and only change to plain text when I post to 1 particular list. Janet > >Had a quick look on Google - maybe it's been sent in HTML rather than plain >text? > >Glenda > >-----Original Message----- > >I've been trying to post to this thread and I keep getting this message >back. What's the problem? > >Janet > > >The message's content type was not explicitly allowed > > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 11 04:08:28 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4B88RvC023673 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 04:08:27 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4B88DKk029759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 May 2007 04:08:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4B87bF4068971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 11 May 2007 02:07:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4B87VH5057386; Fri, 11 May 2007 02:07:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from derby.ac.uk (uodgw1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4B87Q4i057358 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 02:07:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from k.m.bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from ([193.60.149.5]) by uodgw1.derby.ac.uk with ESMTP id 5202112.30463473; Fri, 11 May 2007 09:06:59 0100 Received: from Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p2+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id l4B86ud07549.; Fri, 11 May 2007 09:06:58 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 11 May 2007 09:06:56 +0100 Message-Id: <4644321E02000014000D110D@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 09:06:38 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: References: <200705102039.l4AKbcv3092638@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200705102039.l4AKbcv3092638@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Bildindex in English X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 95e85ef0-fc48-4eed-b8ba-05acc5dadb32 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4644246D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 11 May 2007 04:08:17 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO E. House wrote: >As a slight help, you don't have to figure out how to make umlauts with = your=20 >keyboard in order to successfully search. In general, you can replace = any=20 >umlauted vowel with vowel+e. For example, when searching for "D=FCrer",= =20 >"Duerer" will get you to the same set of files. "Durer", however, won't. >The character "=DF" is more annoying, but can be produced by pressing Num = Lock=20 >on your keyboard, then holding down Alt as you type 225 on the = numerical=20 >keypad (usually on the right side of your keyboard, with arrows on some = of=20 >the numbers). =20 I've not used Bildindex myself, but doesn't that character represent = double "s" in German? So if you can substitute "ue" for "u with umlaut", = perhaps you can use "ss" for that one? Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 11 05:09:34 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4B99V5Z002910 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 05:09:31 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4B99HhB016521 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 May 2007 05:09:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4B98frA074403 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 11 May 2007 03:08:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4B98cMX082969; Fri, 11 May 2007 03:08:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.wightman.on.ca (server01.clifford.wightman.ca [216.110.227.141]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4B98XcS082933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 03:08:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix, from userid 99) id 78510D44E7; Fri, 11 May 2007 05:08:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on server01.clifford X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100 autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 Received: from MAIN (dsl-v45-216-110-230-37.wightman.ca [216.110.230.37]) by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC9F8D3EB3 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 05:08:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Five Rivers Chapmanry" To: Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 05:08:35 -0400 Organization: Five Rivers Message-ID: <000201c793ab$f4e186e0$6400a8c0@MAIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6822 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal Thread-Index: AceTW13lPxtR2s1kTkifAPd2MzxI6gAT+d4g In-Reply-To: <200705102328.l4ANSdF2019730@net.indra.com> X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: womans 18th century cap X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 3085c794-8f2d-4ebf-9377-c68f754617f0 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 464432BD.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 11 May 2007 05:09:20 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO This type of cap is well documented by Suzanne Gousse of La Fleur de Lyse patterns, and is part of their cap repertoire pattern. Suzanne, like the McPherson's, has examined hundreds of extant garments. She has worked closely with many of the Parks Canada archaeologists and curators, as well as museums in France. You can reach Suzanne Gousse through their website: http://pages.videotron.com/fldelyse/Patterns.html Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage, embroidery supplies; fine, original textile, pen and ink, and watercolour art. Now available: Recipes of a Dumb Housewife, by Lorina Stephens 519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.8/797 - Release Date: 5/10/2007 5:10 PM _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 11 08:08:30 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BC8Tiv002500 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 08:08:30 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4BC8FT2032375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 May 2007 08:08:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4BC6TrJ096127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 11 May 2007 06:06:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BC6PIT070630; Fri, 11 May 2007 06:06:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1c.socket.net [216.106.88.67]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4B8DQwq059652 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 02:13:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 601743A1FD for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 03:13:25 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 03:13:29 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 590c7fad-6bd7-4a0d-9b86-209b63472868 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 46445CAF.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 11 May 2007 08:08:19 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO html shouldn't matter. -----Original Message----- But I've always sent my h-costume messages in HTML. I leave that as my standard e-mail setting and only change to plain text when I post to 1 particular list. Janet > >Had a quick look on Google - maybe it's been sent in HTML rather than plain >text? > >Glenda > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 11 10:15:29 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BEFRUY006291 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 10:15:27 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4BEFCDF022078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 May 2007 10:15:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4BEEQ9O010628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 11 May 2007 08:14:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BEENTa050616; Fri, 11 May 2007 08:14:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rocky.itasca.net (polly.itasca.net [12.157.198.253]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BEEGcT050523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 08:14:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pixel@itasca.net) Received: from pixel (helo=localhost) by itasca.net with local-esmtp (Exim 4.63 and XAMS 0.0.15) id 1HmVst-0003Vx-Nq for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 11 May 2007 09:14:15 -0500 Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 09:14:15 -0500 (CDT) From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" X-X-Sender: pixel@rocky.itasca.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting In-Reply-To: <013201c79359$43e43470$dd00a8c0@compaqub> Message-ID: References: <013201c79359$43e43470$dd00a8c0@compaqub> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Itasca-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: pixel@itasca.net X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c900cfbf-82b4-4e68-9c89-97a500536e2b X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 46447A71.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 11 May 2007 10:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Thu, 10 May 2007, E House wrote: > My thought (on the February image) was always that it was due to lice or the > like... > > -E House Actually I think it's just artistic conventions--they just didn't draw the pubic hair. You see this in the depictions of the human body in 12th and 13th century art as well. I don't really pay attention anymore to European art past the 14th century so I can't speak to that, but I can say that I haven't seen body hair of any sort on any depictions of the nude human body before 1400. I have never seen any mention of shaving body hair during that time period either, but that only means I've never seen any, not that such doesn't exist. There might be a mention in medical treatises but I haven't done much study of medieval medical practice past humoral theory. Jen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 11 10:50:20 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BEoKDE007419 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 10:50:20 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4BEo6aQ016699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 May 2007 10:50:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4BEnKOw015110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 11 May 2007 08:49:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BEnHk8075859; Fri, 11 May 2007 08:49:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BEnBnq075724 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 08:49:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB35ECE8F2 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 09:49:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <46448261.1010900@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 09:49:05 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 2,700-Year-Old Fabric Found in Greece X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b2d5643c-01a2-4793-83a1-f8dfb7c5cb70 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 4644829E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 11 May 2007 10:50:10 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO http://www.physorg.com/news97953648.html Archaeologists in Greece have discovered a rare 2,700-year-old piece of fabric inside a copper urn from a burial they speculated imitated the elaborate cremation of soldiers described in Homer's "Iliad." Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 11 11:19:29 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BFJTGS008355 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 11:19:29 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4BFJEbp008830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 May 2007 11:19:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4BFIbGC019122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 11 May 2007 09:18:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BFIYcj099465; Fri, 11 May 2007 09:18:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.199]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BFIVoB099381 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 09:18:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with SMTP id <0JHV00G05UIHXM30@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 11 May 2007 11:18:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:18:17 -0400 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] 2,700-Year-Old Fabric Found in Greece In-reply-to: <46448261.1010900@reddawn.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=12% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 988a0880-6934-45e5-98ef-c6922b421e7c X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46448972.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 11 May 2007 11:19:18 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Thanks for sending this! It is amazing! Monica -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Dawn Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 10:49 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] 2,700-Year-Old Fabric Found in Greece http://www.physorg.com/news97953648.html Archaeologists in Greece have discovered a rare 2,700-year-old piece of fabric inside a copper urn from a burial they speculated imitated the elaborate cremation of soldiers described in Homer's "Iliad." Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 11 13:53:23 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BHrMJS013769 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 13:53:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4BHr87f032283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 May 2007 13:53:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4BHqHjH044014 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 11 May 2007 11:52:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BHqDNp031491; Fri, 11 May 2007 11:52:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp2.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4BHq8Fv031402 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 11:52:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Message-Id: <200705111752.l4BHq8Fv031402@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 19907 invoked from network); 11 May 2007 10:52:07 -0700 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 19298, pid: 19869, t: 4.4617s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:43/d:3123 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.102) by qsmtp2 with SMTP; 11 May 2007 10:52:03 -0700 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 10:48:42 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: RE: [h-cost] 2,700-Year-Old Fabric Found in Greece In-Reply-To: References: <46448261.1010900@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp2.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 384025d6-18ce-4a5b-90c1-8cdb86b78c1b X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4644AD84.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 11 May 2007 13:53:12 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At 08:18 AM 5/11/2007, you wrote: >Thanks for sending this! It is amazing! >Monica > >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On >Behalf Of Dawn >Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 10:49 AM >To: Historical Costume >Subject: [h-cost] 2,700-Year-Old Fabric Found in Greece > > > >http://www.physorg.com/news97953648.html > >Archaeologists in Greece have discovered a rare 2,700-year-old piece of >fabric inside a copper urn from a burial they speculated imitated the >elaborate cremation of soldiers described in Homer's "Iliad." > > >Dawn I want to see the fabric!! It will be very interesting to see the technical analysis of this fragment. I can hardly wait. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 11 16:25:24 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BKPO7i018619 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 16:25:24 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4BKP9N8020099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 May 2007 16:25:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4BKOY7u062629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 11 May 2007 14:24:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BKOTQ6051211; Fri, 11 May 2007 14:24:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BHMaRG006890 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 11:22:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.bf7.1639fd26 (52372) for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 13:22:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from WEBMAIL-RA14 (webmail-ra14.webmail.aol.com [152.163.181.154]) by ciaaol-m01.mx.aol.com (v115.11) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLM0110-cc944644a6491ac; Fri, 11 May 2007 13:22:18 -0400 References: <46448261.1010900@reddawn.net> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 2,700-Year-Old Fabric Found in Greece Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 13:22:17 -0400 In-Reply-To: <46448261.1010900@reddawn.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: annbwass@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 25698 Received: from 151.200.213.3 by WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com (152.163.181.154) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 11 May 2007 13:22:17 -0400 Message-Id: <8C962080F370DEC-146C-2CD8@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 152.163.181.154 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9fd3681e-4541-4e43-af9f-a89596aa75ce X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 4644D125.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 11 May 2007 16:25:13 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO You beat me to it! My husband told me about it this morning, and I was going to pass it on to the list. I believe the plans are to try to stabilize/save the piece first, and then try some analysis. (I remember reading that several years ago, a piece of silk was found--I believe they think it might have been Phillip of Macedonia's tomb, but it had basically turned to jelly, as the silk proteins were broken down) Ann Wass -----Original Message----- From: dawn@reddawn.net To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Fri, 11 May 2007 10:49 AM Subject: [h-cost] 2,700-Year-Old Fabric Found in Greece http://www.physorg.com/news97953648.html Archaeologists in Greece have discovered a rare 2,700-year-old piece of fabric inside a copper urn from a burial they speculated imitated the elaborate cremation of soldiers described in Homer's "Iliad." Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 11 16:38:37 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BKcbhD019014 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 16:38:37 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4BKcNiI018658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 May 2007 16:38:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4BKbYEB065829 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 11 May 2007 14:37:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BKbVXs063258; Fri, 11 May 2007 14:37:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web23101.mail.ird.yahoo.com (web23101.mail.ird.yahoo.com [217.146.189.41]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4BKbQSG063130 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 14:37:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 83767 invoked by uid 60001); 11 May 2007 20:37:20 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=za8xHWISl17h4DfuifYegDIy1fxXArpIr+P7ryFt7mSlafL3FXVQ8mL51sya0B7HsgWHgcrOW3GQkiv3ytBrOW9u3ModOsp3kPB3yDd76opTcQe3Qb7kT0eFpysJrVQ68vDOlQ6wv8lxZ4JbSsgP+aFHKyxjdt3GI+dg3vMpAkE=; X-YMail-OSG: wA9fNbkVM1mkGq63iDAkUxUK2mGGiAXf_jBHJ2taLG_PPdK7EOGC_q8yDPfLE2NIMg-- Received: from [87.244.69.180] by web23101.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 11 May 2007 21:37:20 BST Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 21:37:20 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <8C962080F370DEC-146C-2CD8@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <905437.82186.qm@web23101.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=27% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 2, 700-Year-Old Fabric Found in Greece - no pictureof the cloth! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: db6608ad-12e0-4ac2-8f4e-b4db8efb8489 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4644D43F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 11 May 2007 16:38:27 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO annbwass@aol.com wrote: You beat me to it! My husband told me about it this morning, and I was going to pass it on to the list. I believe the plans are to try to stabilize/save the piece first, and then try some analysis. (I remember reading that several years ago, a piece of silk was found--I believe they think it might have been Phillip of Macedonia's tomb, but it had basically turned to jelly, as the silk proteins were broken down) COMMENT To use 60yr old schoolboy slang - "I say, what a swizz! They only show you the copper vessel on the Site, - no pics of the fabric!" [Or if there were, I didn't find them!] I suppose we'll all have to wait until the fabric has been through a lengthy stabilisation and conservation process, before we get to see the cloth. Could be many months! Matthew, in "old" Jersey _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 11 18:23:58 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BMNwVn028207 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 18:23:58 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4BMNiJn017403 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 May 2007 18:23:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4BMLsEd084887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 11 May 2007 16:21:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BMLo5H042802; Fri, 11 May 2007 16:21:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from metis.sjsu.edu (metis.sjsu.edu [130.65.3.15]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BMLkML042692 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 16:21:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from attrembl@bovil.com) Received: from [130.65.37.190] (sjs-130-65-37-190.sjsu.edu [130.65.37.190]) by metis.sjsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4BMKRb0023586 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 15:21:41 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <87C01897-C045-4F23-ADBD-78B11E945716@bovil.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: Historical Costume From: Andrew T Trembley Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 15:21:38 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Now it can be read! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c486f2fd-a0e9-4673-bf23-0c278a4d03f7 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 4644ECF0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 11 May 2007 18:23:47 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO The second edition of the Costume-Con 26 Progress Report, *Seams To =20 Me*, is on its way to registered members, which means it's now =20 available to download from ! Get the latest on our comfy hotel, our fabulous dealers' room, our =20 stunning exhibits, and the eagerly-awaited Fashion Folio rules! =20 Download the PR now, but beware =96 it=92s so full of goodies it may = take =20 a little while to load! You'll need the free Acrobat reader to view the downloadable version. Of course, CC26 members receive a copy in the mail =96 if you=92re not a = =20 member, you can register online and be sure of getting the next PR =20 delivered directly to your door, as well as being able to get in on =20 the education, competition, art, and pleasure of spending a weekend =20 with fellow costumers and costume lovers! Costume-Con is a premiere venue for professional and hobbyist =20 costumers to meet, compete, share, and socialize. CC-26 takes place =20 April 25-28, 2008 in San Jose, CA. Stay up to date with Costume-Con =20 26! Write us at info@cc26.info if you have questions or want to =20 volunteer. Please forward freely. Costume-Con is a registered service mark of Karen Dick, used by =20 permission. CC26! Adventures in the Costume Continuum is a project of The =20 Unconventional Foundation.= _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 11 19:30:44 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BNUibo030485 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 19:30:44 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4BNUTXs020461 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 May 2007 19:30:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4BNTqPx094554 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 11 May 2007 17:29:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BNTkF3085812; Fri, 11 May 2007 17:29:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s1.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s1.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.73]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4BNTh5o085744 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 17:29:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from praxis_729@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.19.43]) by bay0-omc1-s1.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Fri, 11 May 2007 16:29:37 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 11 May 2007 16:29:37 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.19.200 by by109fd.bay109.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 11 May 2007 23:29:36 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.133.199.144] X-Originating-Email: [praxis_729@hotmail.com] X-Sender: praxis_729@hotmail.com From: "Paula Praxis" To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 16:29:36 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 May 2007 23:29:37.0669 (UTC) FILETIME=[3D9B9B50:01C79424] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Subject: [h-cost] (no subject) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8673efb6-4407-485f-9982-91178124a4f1 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 4644FC95.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 11 May 2007 19:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Can someone please provide the name of the journal in which Bjorne will be featured. If possible a link to how it can be ordered would be really nice and helpful. I'm a great fan of his beautiful work. _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage—get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 11 22:35:01 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4C2Z1l6003059 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 22:35:01 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4C2Yk41010202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 May 2007 22:34:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4C2YFos011271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 11 May 2007 20:34:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4C2Y8hN077004; Fri, 11 May 2007 20:34:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from barra1.swissinfo.org (barra1.barra.srg.ch [146.159.6.75]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4C2Y5CL076872 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 20:34:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from swissgirl@swissinfo.org) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1178937236-620300030001-L6CAXr X-Barracuda-URL: http://146.159.6.75:8000/cgi-bin/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Connect: kuma.sri.ch[194.6.181.33] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1178937236 X-ASG-Whitelist: Sender Received: from mail.swissinfo.org (kuma.sri.ch [194.6.181.33]) by barra1.swissinfo.org (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id 0D697E2A4 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 04:33:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from compaqub (24.216.120.37) by mail.swissinfo.org (7.2.064.1) (authenticated as swissgirl) id 45DAE0BC0366B946 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 12 May 2007 04:13:00 +0200 Message-ID: <017b01c7943b$1f3a6350$dd00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200705102039.l4AKbcv3092638@net.indra.com> <4644321E02000014000D110D@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [h-cost] Re: Bildindex in English Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Bildindex in English Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 21:13:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable X-Barracuda-Virus-Scanned: by Barracuda Spam Firewall at swissinfo.org X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 916061be-307f-470a-bd4b-a65d1888af02 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 464527C7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 11 May 2007 22:34:50 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO ----- Original Message -----=20 < I've not used Bildindex myself, but doesn't that character represent doub= le=20 "s" in German? So if you can substitute "ue" for "u with umlaut", perhaps= =20 you can use "ss" for that one?>> Ah ha! Yes, that looks like it works--exact same results for "schloss" a= nd=20 "schlo=DF", at least. Thanks! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 11 23:54:58 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4C3svCk006167 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 23:54:58 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4C3sh2X031814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 May 2007 23:54:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4C3r2e2018174 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 11 May 2007 21:53:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4C3qxph015646; Fri, 11 May 2007 21:52:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s11.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s11.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.211]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4C3quvY015559 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 21:52:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from praxis_729@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.19.13]) by bay0-omc3-s11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Fri, 11 May 2007 20:52:50 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 11 May 2007 20:52:50 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.19.200 by by109fd.bay109.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 12 May 2007 03:52:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.133.199.144] X-Originating-Email: [praxis_729@hotmail.com] X-Sender: praxis_729@hotmail.com From: "Paula Praxis" To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's upcoming Inspiration article. Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 20:52:45 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 May 2007 03:52:50.0730 (UTC) FILETIME=[030178A0:01C79449] X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 33e04331-857b-423a-9f70-1d32061da81e X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 46453A83.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 11 May 2007 23:54:47 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I'm still learning how exactlyto use this site regarding replying - Now there is a subject line. Here's my question again: Can someone please provide the name of the journal in which Bjorne will be featured. If possible a link to how it can be ordered would be really nice and helpful. I'm a great fan of his beautiful work. Paula _________________________________________________________________ Like the way Microsoft Office Outlook works? You’ll love Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_outlook_0507 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 12 04:03:57 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4C83uX0014065 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 04:03:56 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4C83gmL010811 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 May 2007 04:03:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4C8360V048903 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 12 May 2007 02:03:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4C8316E038691; Sat, 12 May 2007 02:03:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web23107.mail.ird.yahoo.com (web23107.mail.ird.yahoo.com [217.146.189.47]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4C82uP4038558 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 02:02:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 37238 invoked by uid 60001); 12 May 2007 08:02:51 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=OExBKx+RgFAFJSYhKDjIHH+hWGmo20Sidt4j1FHKNwtk/du35LdytNtTp6IJGL0SOwK+s4UoHb3c3gmBV4TucU0BXu3qWKK3TWta6z/FAman5AWMv6cM4mgHsC3R+XdjHWxZ6FCqA9tG230t/+E9HAZnWIxe5f20ZpmHbOJhkPg=; X-YMail-OSG: 4hGA1D0VM1npusg3PUj5YW560zyhJ3v0Q4MkMCq.68nil260P4RGQudXEyOGWz8b6MsnGLHovw-- Received: from [87.244.64.9] by web23107.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 12 May 2007 09:02:51 BST Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 09:02:51 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <017b01c7943b$1f3a6350$dd00a8c0@compaqub> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <283108.37125.qm@web23107.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=16% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] obtaining non-English text characters - was Bildindex in English X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 68ed9045-a6b8-4912-b08b-7fb1555da9ba X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 464574DE.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 12 May 2007 04:03:45 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO E House wrote: ----- Original Message ----- < I've not used Bildindex myself, but doesn't that character represent double "s" in German? So if you can substitute "ue" for "u with umlaut", perhaps you can use "ss" for that one?>> Ah ha! Yes, that looks like it works--exact same results for "schloss" and "schloß", at least. Thanks! COMMENT For those of us running on Microsoft platforms, doesn't "Word" contain a "Font Character Set" subfile, giving one all the keystrokes needed to produce characters which do not normally occur in English/American text? "Alt+0230" for 'æ', for example? Matthew Baker, dwelling in "old" Jersey _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 12 04:53:03 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4C8qsZ8024036 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 04:52:54 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4C8qdVp029127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 May 2007 04:52:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4C8qBY1056670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 12 May 2007 02:52:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4C8qAuO062852; Sat, 12 May 2007 02:52:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep34.mail.dk (fep34.mail.dk [80.160.76.198]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4C8q5K5062814 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 02:52:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep45.mail.dk ([195.41.46.228]) by fep34.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070512085201.CBNK3403.fep34.mail.dk@fep45.mail.dk> for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 10:52:01 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.63.231.214]) by fep45.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070512085201.WBZW6126.fep45.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 10:52:01 +0200 Message-ID: <001301c79472$d35c1b80$d6e73f50@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] (no subject) Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 10:52:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep45.mail.dk from [80.63.231.214] at Sat, 12 May 2007 10:51:54 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=19% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 204052ca-19d1-47c1-a3e2-964ce9b4b73b X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 46458057.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 12 May 2007 04:52:43 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Dear Paula, I get my magazines from Australia, there are no places in Denmark where i can buy it. But maybe there are places in USA? The magazine is called "Inspirations" Here is a link directly to Australia: http://www.countrybumpkin.com.au/ Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paula Praxis" To: Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 1:29 AM Subject: [h-cost] (no subject) > Can someone please provide the name of the journal in which Bjorne will be > featured. If possible a link to how it can be ordered would be really nice > and helpful. I'm a great fan of his beautiful work. > > _________________________________________________________________ > More photos, more messages, more storage-get 2GB with Windows Live > Hotmail. > http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 12 13:08:57 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4CH8ujX012749 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 13:08:56 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4CH8gux001474 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 May 2007 13:08:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4CH8INE028204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 12 May 2007 11:08:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4CH8EuD045011; Sat, 12 May 2007 11:08:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4CFa53a088810 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 09:36:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=t7+iilAll6TGMlMqhGZCQ2Yj9kAEwRK6BHK4Dd6jmf2jjj4rXDs2Ixd1t6W9sGVt; h=Received:Mime-Version:To:Message-Id:Content-Type:From:Subject:Date:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [141.218.245.85] (helo=[10.80.201.13]) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HmtdW-00036E-W3 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sat, 12 May 2007 11:35:59 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Message-Id: <91460FF0-6385-45AE-90AF-D7C1C273DE7D@earthlink.net> From: Heather Rose Jones Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 11:35:59 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-ELNK-Trace: c920284270743d76aa459df8244ac33774bf435c0eb9d47811eb5c9aa44f2a66d8815ccd49c419429b0841d5a8a25e65350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 141.218.245.85 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] Help with a query on Middle Eastern clothing term X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 83aaed82-1159-43e7-85bf-99f78ec7cf2f X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4645F49A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 12 May 2007 13:08:46 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I received the following query (via my surviving garments web page) from an author who needs help verifying a term. I'll post his question below and will forward him anything people can provide to help. (I haven't had a chance to check with him whether it would be ok to post his e-mail address on this list, so I figure I can serve as a conduit.) Heather Jones = = = = = He writes: "Hope you can help me. I am in the process of writing my second historical novel (the first is The Whale Road - HarperCollins) which is partly set in the Middle East, around Jerusalem. I came across a reference to a cloth that is woven to shape, neither cut nor sewn, and worn by a high-ranking official (emir). The name I have is bougameleon, but I have clearly misspelled it, since I cannot find reference to it anywhere now - and, to compound the problem, my original source material seems to have been lost. This is now a query from my copy editor that I cannot seem to answer - so I hope you can. Ever heard of it? Anything similar to it?" = = = = = So the gist of the question seems to be: * Islamic Middle East, near Jerusalem (although no guarantees that his original source was specific to that location) * garment/cloth woven to shape, not cut or sewn * worn by emir (presumably in his original source material) * name something like "bougameleon" * needs to verify correct name to satisfy his copy-editor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 12 14:05:08 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4CI57FY015724 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 14:05:07 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4CI4rVO027910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 May 2007 14:04:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4CI4UwA034152 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 12 May 2007 12:04:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4CI4S7E075879; Sat, 12 May 2007 12:04:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s20.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s20.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.92]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4CI4PWf075795 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 12:04:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from praxis_729@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.19.25]) by bay0-omc1-s20.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sat, 12 May 2007 11:04:20 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 12 May 2007 11:04:20 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.19.200 by by109fd.bay109.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 12 May 2007 18:04:16 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.133.199.144] X-Originating-Email: [praxis_729@hotmail.com] X-Sender: praxis_729@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <001301c79472$d35c1b80$d6e73f50@CPQ21932199711> From: "Paula Praxis" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] (no subject) Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 11:04:16 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 May 2007 18:04:20.0147 (UTC) FILETIME=[F6ABD830:01C794BF] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=14% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ef3cda1c-a9aa-4026-8647-0ab55c6c5e63 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 464601C5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 12 May 2007 14:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Thank you Bjarne, I'm bookmarking the site. Lovely items there. Paula >From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: "Historical Costume" >Subject: Re: [h-cost] (no subject) >Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 10:52:07 +0200 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from www1.indra.com ([209.169.0.7]) by >bay0-mc5-f10.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sat, >12 May 2007 01:54:37 -0700 >Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])by >www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id >l4C8qU76056705(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 >verify=OK);Sat, 12 May 2007 02:52:30 -0600 (MDT)(envelope-from >h-costume-bounces@indra.com) >Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])by net.indra.com >(8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4C8qAuQ062852;Sat, 12 May 2007 02:52:16 >-0600 (MDT)(envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) >Received: from fep34.mail.dk (fep34.mail.dk [80.160.76.198])by >net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4C8q5K5062814for >; Sat, 12 May 2007 02:52:07 -0600 (MDT)(envelope-from >drewscph@post12.tele.dk) >Received: from fep45.mail.dk ([195.41.46.228]) by fep34.mail.dk(InterMail >vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTPid ><20070512085201.CBNK3403.fep34.mail.dk@fep45.mail.dk>for >; Sat, 12 May 2007 10:52:01 +0200 >Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.63.231.214]) by fep45.mail.dk(InterMail >vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTPid ><20070512085201.WBZW6126.fep45.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711>for >; Sat, 12 May 2007 10:52:01 +0200 >X-Message-Info: >LsUYwwHHNt2DZGpnyFatzyOEinjRRVf3TsjENUTBcuprcAMQSzggS3ZDOQcv35us >References: >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 >X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep45.mail.dk >from[80.63.231.214] at Sat, 12 May 2007 10:51:54 +0200 >X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many >Fuz1=manyFuz2=many rep=19% >X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Historical Costume >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >Return-Path: h-costume-bounces@indra.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 May 2007 08:54:38.0112 (UTC) >FILETIME=[2BD8B200:01C79473] > >Dear Paula, >I get my magazines from Australia, there are no places in Denmark where i >can buy it. >But maybe there are places in USA? >The magazine is called "Inspirations" >Here is a link directly to Australia: >http://www.countrybumpkin.com.au/ > >Bjarne > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Paula Praxis" >To: >Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 1:29 AM >Subject: [h-cost] (no subject) > > >>Can someone please provide the name of the journal in which Bjorne will be >>featured. If possible a link to how it can be ordered would be really nice >>and helpful. I'm a great fan of his beautiful work. >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>More photos, more messages, more storage-get 2GB with Windows Live >>Hotmail. >>http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage—get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 12 16:05:14 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4CK5ESa022471 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 16:05:14 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4CK4x5W025792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 May 2007 16:05:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4CK4Dqa053822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 12 May 2007 14:04:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4CK4AO9045400; Sat, 12 May 2007 14:04:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4CK47BZ045372 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 14:04:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from khanson@kc.rr.com) Received: from karen (CPE-72-128-23-84.kc.res.rr.com [72.128.23.84]) by ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l4CK3Oso006632 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 15:03:25 -0500 (CDT) From: "KHanson" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 15:05:26 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 2 costume books for sale X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 94026ee0-800e-458c-b113-e90936670f78 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 46461DEB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 12 May 2007 16:05:03 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I have a first printing of Millia Davenport's "The Book of Costume" for sale. It's the two-volume edition in a cardboard sleeve. Printed in 1948. The cardboard sleeve still has the paper cover. The paper covers on the sleeve are worn but intact and the sleeve is solid. The books are also in good condition. I also have a book entitled "Costume Patterns and Designs" by Max Tilke, 1990 printing. It's in fair condition. Still has the dustcover, though the corners of the dustcover are worn. The paper glued to the inside cover has split on its seam from the first page -- probably someone dropped the book at some time in its life. However, all the pages are intact and have not separated from the spine. If you're interested in either of these books, make me an offer. Not sure what they're worth. Make an offer and we'll go from there. Talia talia "at" kc.rr.com No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.8/800 - Release Date: 5/11/2007 7:34 PM _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 12 17:24:49 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4CLOnSb026759 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 17:24:49 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4CLOY3G014082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 May 2007 17:24:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4CLMhYt065159 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 12 May 2007 15:22:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4CLMbYY085603; Sat, 12 May 2007 15:22:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.224]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4CLMZ3b085578 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 15:22:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i4so1552476wra for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 14:22:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=RDqMQl7M81rCv3HOaaYPP8lb9oSRNZMzrNwxqWgxXhGsyDbVBswYq8fM3I6ZJt0bac4QcxrUCmzrfXL5EuDGRlEP7Do8/31KqLwUooZYIKqkK/0Mk96kOqyBTQMxtLWeEeeFuuNeoy4OCCKXOVQgxSH8u8TCSGCA7PIIUVwCg1c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=azsdtVBexlSNrTUE2Re4Wf2w0oy3mK+J4sfCxtn3v25+EVWz7QdhAcCRFrRX1/mHm7BDekPgsHYGhGaOtA1tI8O9SWPU9PIuXo1n1tazDC/WrxiPxOGQ/H/o67bXlYOVlrx+Vi2J4ASM607PVgI/8vy0jboUAFX2szqMKUpSEoU= Received: by 10.115.111.1 with SMTP id o1mr365075wam.1179004954524; Sat, 12 May 2007 14:22:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.131.18 with HTTP; Sat, 12 May 2007 14:22:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 14:22:34 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost] 2,700-Year-Old Fabric Found in Greece MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 6560ee32-62cd-436c-a2e0-258f1b41773c X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 46463092.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 12 May 2007 17:24:38 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > (I remember reading that several years ago, a piece of silk was found--I believe >they think it might have been Phillip of Macedonia's tomb, but it had basically >turned to jelly, as the silk proteins were broken down) That's not true. It's still fiber, still purple tabby woven with strips of gold (beaten gold, not gold-wrapped thread). The pattern is a brocade, about the size of a small table runner. It was burned briefly during the funeral ceremony as part of the burial offerings. It's in the catalog of the Archaeological Museum of Thessaloniki. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 12 17:44:03 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4CLi3rU027867 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 17:44:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4CLhn4M018344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 May 2007 17:43:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4CLhLRL066964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 12 May 2007 15:43:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4CLhKj1095432; Sat, 12 May 2007 15:43:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.224]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4CLhJRP095349 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 15:43:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id m7so1425099nzf for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 14:43:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=kScwdXBsF46D0/maBHj40jacOx7l2l71jgY2y/B956VMrBsnnx/dnCToZ+CDnbLLQlL4NpwR4AYlcWcPVGpfe0QxbNWQxfXQi6Sk39sWtj7jTKdAZlOAe8FxK6hRqz2F41jCdXmTyR5s39C22xaFkCVaJ9oCBQepe1KqWfA0nQk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=X5WtflZAHnzBEmGSdpR2/Jwr46D1AlhRhwlAEUpqDmjMqjJl5UrexVIZibFElfcY7mFH3+WjbF5tIOdkr6bIFgZLs91dg/msGeY2Ja9gjwQ33yla7SWcsDOm1C5HjLBnt3h6oUUHwPScGLS6wGq3yltOwacFsf1rHZGUrmIna4A= Received: by 10.114.255.1 with SMTP id c1mr367748wai.1179006194350; Sat, 12 May 2007 14:43:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.131.18 with HTTP; Sat, 12 May 2007 14:43:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 14:43:14 -0700 From: Cin To: h-costume@indra.com, heather.jones@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help with a query on Middle Eastern clothing term MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2c0ae635-84cd-4681-bc4c-eee89dc37020 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 46463515.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 12 May 2007 17:43:53 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > So the gist of the question seems to be: > * Islamic Middle East, near Jerusalem (although no guarantees that > his original source was specific to that location) > * garment/cloth woven to shape, not cut or sewn > * worn by emir (presumably in his original source material) > * name something like "bougameleon" > * needs to verify correct name to satisfy his copy-editor Not my area at all, but I do have a few books from the Eretz Israel Museum on Palestinian clothing styles. I cant immediately guess the word(s) your guy is lookking for; the transcription is too corrupted. Here's some ideas, tho'. Rahmallah & Jaffa style c 1900: thob malek = dress or tunic bughmeh mshanshaleh = a kind of choker zunnar maqruneh = a girdle or wide woven belt or sash Nablus area c. 1930s: thob muradden = underdress Other words to try for Palestinian traditional garments of the 19th & 20th c Malakeh = a thob Maqallam = a thob again Abu aitein Abu wardeh Abu qutbeh Abyad = still another word for the basic thob tunic --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 12 19:24:55 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4CNOtjS000317 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 19:24:55 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4CNOeKE005583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 May 2007 19:24:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4CNKbKn075965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 12 May 2007 17:20:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4CNKYha043722; Sat, 12 May 2007 17:20:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta15.adelphia.net (mta15.mail.adelphia.net [68.168.78.77]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4CNKUAX043641 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 17:20:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladysayher@adelphia.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (really [76.100.217.211]) by mta15.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.04 201-2131-123-105-20051025) with ESMTP id <20070512232025.TJXF6560.mta15.adelphia.net@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 19:20:25 -0400 Message-ID: <46464BD9.7070206@adelphia.net> Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 19:20:57 -0400 From: Gail User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=13% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] Reversible Blackwork Embroidery Book Reprint X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f5fb5163-0923-4356-be63-4b970bf8ef34 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46464CB9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 12 May 2007 19:24:44 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Greetings all, I believe it was on this list that someone was looking for period references for two sided blackwork. This is not a period source but I did notice in my Nordic Needle spring catalog (M07) a reprint available of _Reversible Blackwork_ by Ilse Altherr. Lady Margaret _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 12 20:16:17 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4D0GH5K002650 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 20:16:17 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4D0G29t006142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 12 May 2007 20:16:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4D0Feop081131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 12 May 2007 18:15:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4D0Fc9g071105; Sat, 12 May 2007 18:15:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.40]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4D0FZrP071061 for ; Sat, 12 May 2007 18:15:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.245.146.50.dial1.stamford1.level3.net ([4.245.146.50]) by pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1Hn1kM-0002o7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 12 May 2007 20:15:34 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <4B9E8CF6-1FC4-422F-A999-E0A6C075E707@mindspring.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ruth Anne Baumgartner Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help with a query on Middle Eastern clothing term Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 20:16:40 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=47% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2d8dd73f-18f4-41eb-a12b-0a2e11430ac2 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464658C2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 12 May 2007 20:16:06 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Is this like Jesus' "seamless garment"? What period? --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On May 12, 2007, at 5:43 PM, Cin wrote: >> So the gist of the question seems to be: >> * Islamic Middle East, near Jerusalem (although no guarantees that >> his original source was specific to that location) >> * garment/cloth woven to shape, not cut or sewn >> * worn by emir (presumably in his original source material) >> * name something like "bougameleon" >> * needs to verify correct name to satisfy his copy-editor > > Not my area at all, but I do have a few books from the Eretz Israel > Museum on Palestinian clothing styles. I cant immediately guess the > word(s) your guy is lookking for; the transcription is too corrupted. > Here's some ideas, tho'. > > Rahmallah & Jaffa style c 1900: > thob malek = dress or tunic > bughmeh mshanshaleh = a kind of choker > zunnar maqruneh = a girdle or wide woven belt or sash > > Nablus area c. 1930s: > thob muradden = underdress > > Other words to try for Palestinian traditional garments of the 19th > & 20th c > Malakeh = a thob > Maqallam = a thob again > Abu aitein > Abu wardeh > Abu qutbeh > Abyad = still another word for the basic thob tunic > > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 13 10:48:43 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4DEmgBV029457 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 10:48:42 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4DEmSPX017455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 May 2007 10:48:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4DElqdN079895 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 13 May 2007 08:47:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4DEllp9022542; Sun, 13 May 2007 08:47:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mxs1.wvu.edu (mxs1.wvu.edu [157.182.140.113]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4DElhhT022510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 08:47:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from khoover@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUGW01.wvu.edu (wvugw01.wvu.edu [157.182.215.110]) by mxs1.wvu.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4DElcpu021006 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 10:47:42 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from khoover@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUDOM1-MTA by WVUGW01.wvu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Sun, 13 May 2007 10:47:38 -0400 Message-Id: <4646ECA90200000C003DBA03@WVUGW01.wvu.edu> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.2 Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 10:47:05 -0400 From: "Kathy Hoover" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Thanks for suggestions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8bbcacf3-8b98-4a52-97d1-42ced7c1927b X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4647253C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 13 May 2007 10:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi , I just wanted to say thank you to Agnes Gawne, Genie Barrett, and Marie = Stewart for their suggestions of costume/fabric/needlework related places = to visit in Ireland. I leave in 4 days, and I'll be sure to report back = to the list if I stumble across any other Not To Be Missed Places. Kathy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 13 11:03:56 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4DF3tdh030393 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 11:03:55 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4DF3fxH014443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 May 2007 11:03:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4DF35im082016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 13 May 2007 09:03:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4DF341b030964; Sun, 13 May 2007 09:03:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4DF30IN030887 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 09:03:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=radiks.net; b=SI3BQFJBBWGgXUN3bp1Oap4MwY8aGk8zbiJXfnltut1k+hlhXYpAGUfqXwNOIIdd; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [69.81.2.225] (helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HnFb5-0007c3-LO for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 13 May 2007 11:02:55 -0400 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20070513094023.036d8780@pop.radiks.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 09:46:01 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200705121800.l4CI03ZF073495@net.indra.com> References: <200705121800.l4CI03ZF073495@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ELNK-Trace: 4dc586d4c2c509b54091741908ea4e530e74e32b2412d3e6873e168c311df5d71a9d8eaf5bbaf42b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.81.2.225 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: obtaining non-English text characters - was Bildindex in English X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 19adf281-a6b4-42da-93f0-c15136165136 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 464728CD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 13 May 2007 11:03:45 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > > >------------------------------ > > > > COMMENT > For those of us running on Microsoft=20 > platforms, doesn't "Word" contain a "Font=20 > Character Set" subfile, giving one all the=20 > keystrokes needed to produce characters which=20 > do not normally occur in English/American=20 > text? "Alt+0230" for '=E6', for example? In XP if you go to All Programs -- Accessories --=20 System Tools -- Character Map you will see a=20 chart with all available characters in a=20 particular font. Choose your font at the top. You=20 can then select and copy whichever character you=20 need and paste it into the document. When you=20 select a character you will also see at the=20 bottom right corner the keystroke to get that character in your document. Pierre > > Matthew Baker, > dwelling in "old" Jersey > > > > > > >- "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda =20 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 13 14:25:14 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4DIPEPh008483 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 14:25:14 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4DIOxhh003910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 May 2007 14:25:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4DIONap011630 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 13 May 2007 12:24:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4DIOJGs049729; Sun, 13 May 2007 12:24:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.232]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4DIOHgu049699 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 12:24:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id m7so1626924nzf for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 11:24:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=nRuY6Kopd0vM8HvHv2NiNRuhxw2YEtwG21Q9P0ohXCnnZj+h+zXsx/zZAyiIlrixvZDEqgLO8aLAole/iZF7B8KEEOt5c6+C9D2XrO4Bme4vqxtkQ1vzDdIHnW4S70uiY7xiB5P9Qd5Djb3dvdFt6d0p02vLyWXsDRYtC3UKvlE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=BAFzSsC/YU0oTqje1fMX3TfAmIlX0H5jQbpnESJwm+R/jc+aDfAo3nsKwEcT+rLWsC06S7AFWG8mCKIuIt78NwO7bFrVX9RArC90XkqNTsQeyC4dqjoUb/v4lFtCna+WUZN9HktCvU2ueZebrGzqH0aqyBTyZZVQ4TrD1HhJjzA= Received: by 10.114.15.1 with SMTP id 1mr683228wao.1179080656318; Sun, 13 May 2007 11:24:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.131.18 with HTTP; Sun, 13 May 2007 11:24:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 11:24:16 -0700 From: Cin To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 2,700-Year-Old Fabric Found in Greece MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 28de8937-69d5-45c4-94b0-f4032d7d8451 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464757FB.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 13 May 2007 14:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO >>That's not true. It's still fiber, still purple tabby woven with >>strips of gold >Thanks--boy, was my memory faulty. Well, my only excuse is I read it a LONG time ago! Maybe I'm remembering another fragment from another source? >Darned sensitive buttons! Sent that message before I was finished. Anyway, thanks for setting me straight. My only excuse is, it was a LONG time ago that I read it? Now I have to figure out why I'm remembering that "jelly" part--maybe I read about other fragments somewhere else, also a long time ago. >Ann Wass Perhaps you're remembering the stabilization technique? I understand some are paste or goo. The big color Thessaloniki catalog I have doesnt talk about any sort of preservation or conservation method. --cin Cin Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 13 17:42:22 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4DLgLZv019272 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 17:42:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4DLg72a013371 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 May 2007 17:42:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4DLfe6M033148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 13 May 2007 15:41:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4DLfa9W051688; Sun, 13 May 2007 15:41:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4DAIvQW087225 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 04:18:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.c14.17659e10 (41809) for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 06:18:37 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 06:18:36 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] 2,700-Year-Old Fabric Found in Greece To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.0 VR sub 100 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 49c181dc-5c6c-448f-97c5-6daa2899a508 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 4647862F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 13 May 2007 17:42:11 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/12/2007 5:23:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cinbarnes@gmail.com writes: That's not true. It's still fiber, still purple tabby woven with strips of gold Thanks--boy, was my memory faulty. Well, my only excuse is I read it a LONG time ago! Maybe I'm remembering another fragment from another source? ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 13 17:42:46 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4DLgkuH019301 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 17:42:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4DLgWLr000549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 May 2007 17:42:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4DLgB9K033195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 13 May 2007 15:42:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4DLgBxE051949; Sun, 13 May 2007 15:42:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4DAKOqu087937 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 04:20:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.c74.c49a13e (41809) for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 06:20:10 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 06:20:10 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] 2,700-Year-Old Fabric Found in Greece To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.0 VR sub 100 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5ad306e9-ebab-4a78-8f23-9b0738892047 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46478648.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 13 May 2007 17:42:35 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/12/2007 5:23:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cinbarnes@gmail.com writes: That's not true. It's still fiber, still purple tabby woven with strips of gold Darned sensitive buttons! Sent that message before I was finished. Anyway, thanks for setting me straight. My only excuse is, it was a LONG time ago that I read it? Now I have to figure out why I'm remembering that "jelly" part--maybe I read about other fragments somewhere else, also a long time ago. Ann Wass ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 13 18:23:40 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4DMNeQt021530 for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 18:23:40 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4DMNPea013969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 13 May 2007 18:23:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4DMN805037257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 13 May 2007 16:23:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4DMN7OJ069485; Sun, 13 May 2007 16:23:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail8.tpgi.com.au (mail8.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.46]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4DMN1BR069437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 16:23:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-244-241-17-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.244.241.17]) by mail8.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l4DMMuBr024800 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 08:22:58 +1000 Message-ID: <002701c795ad$4252ec40$11f1f4dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Jamestown Test Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 08:22:55 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=18% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 52aa23ab-081c-487b-aefc-579264688c20 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 46478FDE.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 13 May 2007 18:23:29 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cin" To: "h-cost" Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 3:40 AM Subject: [h-cost] The Jamestown Test >A Washington Post reporter dresses up as John Smith to see if anyone > recognizes the outfit or has heard about Jamestown. > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2007/05/08/VI2007050801375.html > I suspect we'd all fail the test... he just looks like a guy in funny > clothes made of upholstery fabrics to me. It's a cute video, tho'. > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com yes, my response would probably be, 'your costume is obviously attempting to look like Elizabethan clothing' but in reality it looks like something from the costume section of Butterick. But of course not being American 90% of my knowledge of John Smith comes from the Disney movie. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 14 03:33:48 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4E7Xipq011022 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 03:33:45 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4E7XU4b022396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 May 2007 03:33:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4E7WfoQ074532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 14 May 2007 01:32:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4E7Wbue094934; Mon, 14 May 2007 01:32:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4E7WXAE094853 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 01:32:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id AA1B65A062E; Mon, 14 May 2007 05:56:43 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 2,700-Year-Old Fabric Found in Greece Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 23:04:26 -0700 Message-ID: <002801c795ed$ba842a40$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: <8C962080F370DEC-146C-2CD8@WEBMAIL-RA14.sysops.aol.com> Importance: Normal X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: d492a1d1-90f0-4b14-8885-7bceb7de217d X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464810CA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 14 May 2007 03:33:34 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO My husband said this is probably the earliest version of someone who has = too much fabric..... :-) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] = On Behalf Of annbwass@aol.com Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 10:22 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 2,700-Year-Old Fabric Found in Greece You beat me to it! My husband told me about it this morning, and I was going to pass it on to the list. I believe the plans are to try to stabilize/save the piece first, and then try some analysis. (I remember reading that several years ago, a piece of silk was found--I believe = they think it might have been Phillip of Macedonia's tomb, but it had = basically turned to jelly, as the silk proteins were broken down) =20 Ann Wass=20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: dawn@reddawn.net To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Fri, 11 May 2007 10:49 AM Subject: [h-cost] 2,700-Year-Old Fabric Found in Greece http://www.physorg.com/news97953648.html=20 =20 Archaeologists in Greece have discovered a rare 2,700-year-old piece of fabric inside a copper urn from a burial they speculated imitated the elaborate cremation of soldiers described in Homer's "Iliad."=20 =20 Dawn=20 =20 _______________________________________________=20 h-costume mailing list=20 h-costume@mail.indra.com=20 http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume=20 ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free = from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 14 06:01:47 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4EA1knv005178 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 06:01:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4EA1WoR031089 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 May 2007 06:01:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4EA0k2r087541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 14 May 2007 04:00:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4EA0Y7P062805; Mon, 14 May 2007 04:00:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail8.tpgi.com.au (mail8.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.46]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4EA0Ctf062593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 04:00:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-244-241-234-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.244.241.234]) by mail8.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l4EA09Mk004875 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 20:00:11 +1000 Message-ID: <000801c7960e$a874bd80$eaf1f4dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 20:00:08 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=18% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] a cheat's late Victorian hat X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9feb59e1-7c30-41f3-80a4-191e0beb2a1a X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4648337C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 14 May 2007 06:01:36 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi everyone, A friend is throwing a costume party next month and has decided the theme is 'an Irish wake' so she wants everyone in black or green, so when the topic of mourning comes up I tend to think Victorian as I already had plans for a natural form dress I just decided to bump this project to the top of my list and make it mourning wear. But I'm stuck on headwear, I have a chiffon scarf that would work OK as a widow's veil. It is a long thin rectangle so it won't work just draped over my head, but if I attach the long side to the edge of a hat it should work OK as a veil (I experimented with pinning it to the inside of my sun hat and it came down to about an inch below my shoulders). I have about 1/2 a metre of buckram (though it's not proper millinery buckram) and some wire left over from making the crescent of my 16th century French hood plus some scraps of black velveteen or satin to cover it. I've also got Butterick 4210 which I might be able to adapt, but I don't have money to buy a bonnet and I don't really want to spend much money on this costume (as the only place I can usually wear Victorian stuff is a dance so bonnets/hats aren't really appropriate) thanks Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole | Elizabeth Beaumont Canberra, Australia | Politarchopolis, Lochac http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 14 14:50:20 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4EIoKAl022673 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 14:50:20 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4EIo6pa008589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 May 2007 14:50:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4EInBmC092399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 14 May 2007 12:49:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4EIn2sM096843; Mon, 14 May 2007 12:49:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4EImvF1096739 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 12:48:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from FyneHats2@aol.com) Received: from FyneHats2@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.d3b.91e3ac9 (43932) for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 14:48:44 -0400 (EDT) From: FyneHats2@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 14:48:44 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] a cheat's late Victorian hat To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: e99cd1d6-5ded-4787-8bf3-b3ba58d8ff5d X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4648AF5E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 14 May 2007 14:50:09 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO >From Suzi Clarke: Do you have a thrift shop/charity shop anywhere near, where you could buy a hat, and alter it to suit? To use the veil, you could get an old hat, cut off the brim and wire the bottom of the crown (covering the wire with bias tape) and attach the veil to that making a sort of toque effect which would suit the natural form period. Donna Scarfe Fyne Hats By Felicity Period Headgear for Past Ages _www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com_ (http://www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 14 17:16:33 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ELGX55030635 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 17:16:33 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4ELGJrC006392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 May 2007 17:16:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4ELFgj7025024 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 14 May 2007 15:15:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ELFbuf033281; Mon, 14 May 2007 15:15:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s6.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s6.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.206]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ELFXU3033161 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 15:15:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jessicastier@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.169.33]) by bay0-omc3-s6.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Mon, 14 May 2007 14:15:27 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 14 May 2007 14:15:28 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.169.200 by by114fd.bay114.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 14 May 2007 21:15:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [71.199.60.100] X-Originating-Email: [jessicastier@hotmail.com] X-Sender: jessicastier@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200705141801.l4EI0QGx044826@net.indra.com> From: "jessica stier" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 21:15:24 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 May 2007 21:15:28.0028 (UTC) FILETIME=[FEE31DC0:01C7966C] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] The Jamestown Test X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c63a9c28-10db-4692-9be0-5553d52d4c77 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4648D1A3.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 14 May 2007 17:16:23 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I hate to say it, but I think if he would have come to the West Coast he would have found a lot of people who don't know a thing about John Smith or Jamestown... It's a fun idea though. :) jessica _________________________________________________________________ Like the way Microsoft Office Outlook works? You’ll love Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_outlook_0507 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 14 22:21:27 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4F2LQ3a014890 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 22:21:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4F2LCA3026015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 May 2007 22:21:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4F2KcbW007276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 14 May 2007 20:20:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4F2KUIO064350; Mon, 14 May 2007 20:20:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.37]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4EAJshW084954 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 04:19:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAHLUR0bUSnINk2dsb2JhbACPfwIBAQcGCAwfKw Received: from [80.41.69.162] (port=1753 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-relay-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.66 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HnXed-000E3V-5h for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 14 May 2007 11:19:47 +0100 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20070514111419.024cbab8@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 11:19:47 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] a cheat's late Victorian hat In-Reply-To: <000801c7960e$a874bd80$eaf1f4dc@user4712b7d135> References: <000801c7960e$a874bd80$eaf1f4dc@user4712b7d135> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=56% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ce7431d6-3b8c-4704-a95b-dd43432e17d7 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 46491918.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 14 May 2007 22:21:16 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At 11:00 14/05/2007, you wrote: >Hi everyone, A friend is throwing a costume party next month and has decided >the theme is 'an Irish wake' so she wants everyone in black or green, so >when the topic of mourning comes up I tend to think Victorian as I already >had plans for a natural form dress I just decided to bump this project to >the top of my list and make it mourning wear. But I'm stuck on headwear, I >have a chiffon scarf that would work OK as a widow's veil. It is a long >thin rectangle so it won't work just draped over my head, but if I attach >the long side to the edge of a hat it should work OK as a veil (I >experimented with pinning it to the inside of my sun hat and it came >down to about an inch below my shoulders). I have about 1/2 a metre >of buckram (though it's not proper millinery buckram) and some wire >left over from making the crescent of my 16th century French hood >plus some scraps of black velveteen or satin to cover it. I've also >got Butterick 4210 which I might be able to adapt, but I don't have >money to buy a bonnet and I don't really want to spend much money on >this costume (as the only place I can usually wear Victorian stuff >is a dance so bonnets/hats aren't really appropriate) >thanks >Elizabeth Do you have a thrift shop/charity shop anywhere near, where you could buy a hat, and alter it to suit? I once made a costermonger's hat, like Eliza Doolittle, from a fairground "Kiss me Quick" hat in cardboard felt. I took off the band with KMQ on it, replacing it with some silk ribbon and net, and added a couple of artificial flowers from my stash. It worked really well. You could cover a straw boater, or reblock a felt shape and cover with fabric, and all at very little cost. It does not have to be a bonnet - boaters, and hats in felt or straw of that shape were also worn. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 14 22:31:51 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4F2Vomw015402 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 22:31:50 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4F2Vaui011210 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 May 2007 22:31:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4F2V0eJ009688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 14 May 2007 20:31:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4F2UwVW072785; Mon, 14 May 2007 20:30:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s38.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s38.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.174]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4EKenm7003217 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 14:40:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.25]) by bay0-omc2-s38.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Mon, 14 May 2007 13:40:43 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 14 May 2007 13:40:43 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 70.56.178.22 by BAY133-DAV15.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 14 May 2007 20:40:41 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.56.178.22] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "h-costume" Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 13:40:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 14 May 2007 13:40:53 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 May 2007 20:40:43.0860 (UTC) FILETIME=[24A05140:01C79668] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=12% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] What would you do with this fabric. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a7ad278a-f34a-4e99-8dc9-2522d9121f21 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 46491B88.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 14 May 2007 22:31:40 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I have a number of fabrics I've bought over the years, and am now making = myself do something with them! http://www.saragrace.us/images/Fabrics/index.htm The above link has two of them. The first, I have 3 yards of, and it is 54 inches wide. It is a silk = brocade. I was thinking about making something like a pet-en-l'air, = (French Jacket) as found on page 30 of Arnolds Pattern's of Fashion 1. If it is not enough yardage, I figure I can make one of the Jackets on = page 26. Anyone who knows this period think it may not be appropriate? The second may be harder. It is tapestry, also 54 inches wide. I have = a little over 2 yards. I love this fabric, but it is a little bright. = The second picture gives you the best sense of how bright it is. It is = 'reversible,' but I am not sure I like the "wrong" side enough to not = line it. But I have no idea what it is appropriate for. I would love to hear any opinions on both! Thanks for looking! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 14 22:32:40 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4F2Wedt015444 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 22:32:40 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4F2WQZU009855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 May 2007 22:32:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4F2W7rg009877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 14 May 2007 20:32:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4F2W6Ex073521; Mon, 14 May 2007 20:32:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-7.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-7.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.25]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4F2W25k073432 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 20:32:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mplumb@wideopenwest.com) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (d14-69-62-55.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.55.62]) by pop-7.dnv.wideopenwest.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l4F2VuXo023990 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 21:31:56 -0500 Message-ID: <46491C04.3050601@wideopenwest.com> Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 22:33:40 -0400 From: Michelle Plumb User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070305) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Looking for wide velcro X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 241adfff-ce05-4df6-82e5-330fbcacf51e X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46491BBA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 14 May 2007 22:32:30 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Does anyone have any idea where I can get my hands on some large velcro? I need a piece about 4"x12", and so far I've only found stores that sell it by the 25 yard roll. Thanks, Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 14 22:38:07 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4F2c7YE015674 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 22:38:07 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4F2brnK029532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 May 2007 22:37:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4F2XTw7010102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 14 May 2007 20:33:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4F2XTgi074276; Mon, 14 May 2007 20:33:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ELnDo9064049 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 15:49:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.bf1.14871a75 (39331) for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 17:49:06 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:49:06 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Jamestown Test To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 18493f30-c37e-4f2d-ab76-06011a0d6a65 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 46491D01.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 14 May 2007 22:37:57 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/14/2007 5:16:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jessicastier@hotmail.com writes: I hate to say it, but I think if he would have come to the West Coast he would have found a lot of people who don't know a thing about John Smith or Jamestown... It's a fun idea though. Your reference seems to be missing. Was it a link or. . . ? Ann Wass ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 15 00:44:19 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4F4iJWL021577 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 00:44:19 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4F4i5cv014321 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 May 2007 00:44:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4F4hb9L030635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 14 May 2007 22:43:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4F4hYUP048881; Mon, 14 May 2007 22:43:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52108.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web52108.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.48.111]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4F4hVew048810 for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 22:43:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 75643 invoked by uid 60001); 15 May 2007 04:43:26 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=m3FC9gP24k+VrI2mtv9QhOTsANjBu6Wn5Wl3W9v1z50C5nhqjzeRTeqfb57G++RriFHdzEeQqhzueKpIVIM3sNRT+CuDHx4BpARr4xPJKJo1yLJNjGwoqBfoXpMnLRHYHyHgk+my1bH2pswiJ3VZTaopfy35JC/7LKMVD8AU4G0=; X-YMail-OSG: etLQImMVM1mg6RaJo_r.ioOnqmK_QoAi_fBK1vzrx5F0Fx1ZpX31N9ZNvzqn6dZ8RaZaI6ZhtQErPrWRlcmRFA7R1A8aG8y48lV_WiEgm.tATGBNgxYAmURx2xBV Received: from [74.114.43.209] by web52108.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 May 2007 21:43:26 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.23 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.10 Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 21:43:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathy Page To: Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <40852.74771.qm@web52108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=22% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] K'zoo catch up X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 6a53d932-25ff-419b-97f4-7a097825e31e X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 46493A95.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 15 May 2007 00:44:09 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I'll blame this on post-session geekery. ;-)=0A=0AGive us free time, wirele= ss internet access, chocolate and alcohol and what happens? Images exchange= s. No, no... not *those* kinds of images! ;-) Completely different variety = of porn....=0AIt's nice to know my memory wasn't completely befuddled and t= hat I could indeed re-find some images I said I had. I don't have the email= address for the one specifically asking for these images, however I though= t I'll post it here, chances are realllllllly good you A) know who you are = and B) are on this list in the first place, so why not share the bounty wit= h everyone else at the same time?=0AThe following site is a French images a= gency site, to which I found the 16th c. Venetian coat with front, back and= fabric detail. =0Ahttp://www.photo.rmn.fr/c/htm/Search_New.aspx=0ATo find = the coat specifically, put in "16th century" under "period" then "silk" und= er "Technic/Material", hit search. his will bring up a specifics prompt tha= t asks you to choose one from the list. Choose "textile" and hit search aga= in. The very first image is the coat, after that, you are rewarded with 50+= pages of images that all share 16thc. silk textile keywords. Be prepared f= or a whackload of tapestry images, but sift through them for other gems hid= ing between.=0AAfter you're finished with those pages, wander around a litt= le more. Guaranteed to find tonnes of nifty things. :-) Great time consumer= and drool producer.=0A=0AKathy=0A =0AIt=92s never too late to be who you m= ight have been.=0A-George Eliot=0ATosach e=F3lais imchomarc. - Questioning = is the beginning of knowledge. http://www.sengoidelc.com/node/131=0A=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0A Get news delivered with the All new Yahoo! Mail. Enjoy RSS = feeds right on your Mail page. Start today at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try= _beta?.intl=3Dca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 15 02:28:47 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4F6Sl5O007746 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 02:28:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4F6SW2B008803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 May 2007 02:28:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4F6Rp08047905 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 15 May 2007 00:27:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4F6RlAI005798; Tue, 15 May 2007 00:27:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.238]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4F6RjNH005728 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 00:27:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i4so267151wra for ; Mon, 14 May 2007 23:27:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=uNre3sA/KiuFl4dkF/REl8xHuZDXC4viptQlpJdTj9E5sN1EUTs4HrVfXSV/BcGkQYMyagS0++r04lKDMkc4labLkyRjKCUTGoBBqYrg8S42Q2ekmH5w4ztWL5eRMYWwl/k4y+n5dThX8Z98kkPw17m25jJNLd7pCKFMDLDOb3A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=jx+4+IzFbdjbyxZJf3oeGv8atznYInsUA3Hm5yVDsfrrnnKaymq0fWY2vboRvAw7AIkekk9NpUmq50UlrSJu/1vdszx9i9F3Q93wY8vIEDgT7kK7uWTuBS6XKzXWEylUqjfhCc79MmG9wuFQcfzExcVAc7kFunLkqOU5XQEZVs4= Received: by 10.114.103.1 with SMTP id a1mr1390020wac.1179210459046; Mon, 14 May 2007 23:27:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.131.18 with HTTP; Mon, 14 May 2007 23:27:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 23:27:38 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=18% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Academy of Danse Libre performs The DaVintage Code X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 055a52c3-d08c-4ac0-afaa-96d996a62919 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 46495310.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 15 May 2007 02:28:36 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Palo Alto, California =96 Thursday/Friday, May 31/June 1, 2007 8pm The Academy of Danse Libre performs The DaVintage Code at the Cubberley Theatre, 4000 Middlefield Road. The non-profit group performs a variety of breathtaking dances from the 19th and 20th centuries, in full period costume, in the San Francisco Bay area, and "seeks to entertain and inspire audiences with romantic waltzes, liberated polkas, playful tangos, high-energy Charlestons, and other dances from the Victorian and Ragtime eras, the 1920s and the 1930s." For more information, visit http://www.danselibre.org. Tickets can be purchased via the Danse Libre website or from any cast membe= r. Several h-costume members made costumes for this show. At least one will be performing in it. Come see! --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 15 09:34:25 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FDYNrO012932 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 09:34:23 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4FDY8Fv013135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 May 2007 09:34:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4FDXPoe007989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 15 May 2007 07:33:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FDXK56044191; Tue, 15 May 2007 07:33:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from flpi101.sbcis.sbc.com (flpi101.sbcis.sbc.com [207.115.20.70]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FDXEPM044102 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 07:33:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) X-ORBL: [75.46.182.98] Received: from [75.46.182.98] (adsl-75-46-182-98.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net [75.46.182.98]) by flpi101.sbcis.sbc.com (8.13.8 out.dk.spool/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4FDWh5l008079 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 06:32:43 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <40852.74771.qm@web52108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <40852.74771.qm@web52108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] K'zoo catch up Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 09:33:05 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 21d8ba78-49b1-49b8-b68a-83e1e2d00235 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4649B6D0.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 15 May 2007 09:34:12 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On May 15, 2007, at 12:43 AM, Kathy Page wrote: > I don't have the email address for the one specifically asking for > these images, however I thought I'll post it here, chances are > realllllllly good you A) know who you are and B) are on this list > in the first place, so why not share the bounty with everyone else > at the same time? That would be me. Thanks, Kathy! I'm certain that you are correct in thinking that others on the list will appreciate it. For other searchers, if you do the search that Kathy suggests, the back of the coat is on page 26 of the results. Or if you'd like to get more specific, you can add "dress" into the keyword box. Strangely, the results of that search do not include the gorgeous embroidered belt and other interesting items that appear in the results of the search without dress as a keyword. "16th century" in the period box plus "dress" as a keyword gives yet another set of fun stuff. Thanks again, Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 15 12:49:54 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FGnrm6022895 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 12:49:53 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4FGnZBB016043 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 May 2007 12:49:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4FGmsjm045036 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 15 May 2007 10:48:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FGmmoR022118; Tue, 15 May 2007 10:48:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s21.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s21.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.93]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FGmhKF021965 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 10:48:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.12]) by bay0-omc1-s21.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 15 May 2007 09:48:38 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 15 May 2007 09:48:38 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 70.56.178.22 by BAY133-DAV2.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 15 May 2007 16:48:35 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.56.178.22] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "h-costume" Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 09:48:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 15 May 2007 09:48:50 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 May 2007 16:48:38.0596 (UTC) FILETIME=[E2EF6840:01C79710] X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=12% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Split drawer pattern online? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2d74af94-cd3b-4dae-b4ca-841c308b6063 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4649E49F.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 15 May 2007 12:49:43 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO There used to be a split drawer's drafting pattern/instruction online, = which I cannot, for the life of me, find again. As I recall, it was something like Mrs. Clarks pattern (it was a simple = name, could have been Brown, Smith etc) Anyone know where it is or have a copy of it? Thanks, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 15 12:52:02 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FGq2YB023007 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 12:52:02 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4FGpmJ5020695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 May 2007 12:51:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4FGpKZr046118 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 15 May 2007 10:51:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FGpHxH024811; Tue, 15 May 2007 10:51:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s41.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s41.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.177]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FGpB5o024607 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 10:51:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.20]) by bay0-omc2-s41.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 15 May 2007 09:51:06 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 15 May 2007 09:51:06 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 70.56.178.22 by BAY133-DAV10.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 15 May 2007 16:51:02 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.56.178.22] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "h-costume" Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 09:51:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 15 May 2007 09:51:17 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 May 2007 16:51:06.0298 (UTC) FILETIME=[3AF8F1A0:01C79711] X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f8133ca9-7a8d-4bcb-92f0-fd18cd0ded94 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 4649E524.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 15 May 2007 12:51:52 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I have a couple of questions regarding construction, fabric selection = etc. =20 The major problem I have with my pattern for split drawers, is they tend = to creep and bunch up in "you know where." Is there some relationship to crotch depth, amount of overlap, fabric = types that you have experimented with which would help with this = phenomenon? Thanks, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 15 13:00:37 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FH0aSX023426 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 13:00:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4FH0MjR014971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 May 2007 13:00:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4FGxmoT049029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 15 May 2007 10:59:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FGxfYC034015; Tue, 15 May 2007 10:59:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.38]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FGxYIF033741 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 10:59:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAALODSUbUSnILk2dsb2JhbACQAAIBAQcGCAwf Received: from [212.139.103.215] (port=2976 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-relay-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.66 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Ho0Iz-000Ee6-CR for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 15 May 2007 17:55:21 +0100 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20070515175407.024cee40@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 17:55:22 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=56% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: abc45841-d7a2-42a3-a370-3c496c69342c X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 4649E726.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 15 May 2007 13:00:26 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At 17:51 15/05/2007, you wrote: >I have a couple of questions regarding construction, fabric selection etc. >The major problem I have with my pattern for split drawers, is they >tend to creep and bunch up in "you know where." > >Is there some relationship to crotch depth, amount of overlap, >fabric types that you have experimented with which would help with >this phenomenon? > >Thanks, The lady in question is Elizabeth Stewart Clark. http://www.elizabethstewartclark.com/ Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 15 17:08:40 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FL8dFV003985 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 17:08:39 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4FL8PrS014014 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 May 2007 17:08:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4FL7dID099688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 15 May 2007 15:07:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FL7WOB083967; Tue, 15 May 2007 15:07:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.48.104]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4FL7SOB083867 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 15:07:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 1535 invoked by uid 60001); 15 May 2007 21:07:23 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=yEYw6jhfD3M6aI/trdSf5Srtq+pUxN8wuZ38N39bQEALUMdg+xSN1E3qaKn/E5eZ7tLpaT5ujTj2Q+vJI1GScbv6Q3qFWC0tVBn7FbntcQjo0KKi9iLcuXrSEMX83RlK2Xql6v+6JVDcSkSzxfD1E3xIuHdLMmbYnPrBtjIw6wc=; X-YMail-OSG: jn3bEicVM1k9CgGzLo4YXrzyGs6TG58uujsfu9esXwVQs1n14ZCUEKHllVGPT7GY5g-- Received: from [74.114.43.209] by web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 May 2007 14:07:23 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.23 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.10 Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 14:07:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathy Page To: Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <318546.1522.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=20% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] Perpignan cloth X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: e2dbc5e4-e266-45be-8d54-2aab052fed19 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464A2149.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 15 May 2007 17:08:29 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I have just been flipping through Dressing Renaissance Florence, and they m= ention "hosiery itself was made of perpignan cloth (perpignano), a washable= and stretchy woolen jersey fabric, originally developed by weavers in Perp= ignan, France." =0AHas anyone ever heard of this stuff before, and if so, w= hat is its' weave structure? What would it be close to in modern terms? Thi= s answers a lot of questions why Italian men's hose are so smooth and tight= looking. If I can find a reasonable equivalent, it will make my job MUCH e= asier on this commission that I have been stalled on for so long.=0A=0AKath= y=0A =0AErmine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder wit= h a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert=0A(Fieldless) On a rose= Or barbed vert a lion's head erased gules. =0AIt=92s never too late to be = who you might have been.=0A-George Eliot=0ATosach e=F3lais imchomarc. - Que= stioning is the beginning of knowledge. http://www.sengoidelc.com/node/131= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A Ask a question on any topic and get answers from re= al people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answer= s.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 15 17:49:01 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FLmwoB005933 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 17:48:58 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4FLmieM008129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 May 2007 17:48:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4FLm4QT005528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 15 May 2007 15:48:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FLm0ue018198; Tue, 15 May 2007 15:48:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FLloR6018037 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 15:47:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A8B05050053A; Tue, 15 May 2007 21:40:00 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] a cheat's late Victorian hat Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 14:47:48 -0700 Message-ID: <006a01c7973a$adfb8db0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000801c7960e$a874bd80$eaf1f4dc@user4712b7d135> X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 10954911-f5ee-4e5d-8464-c04570b0763d X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464A2ABC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 15 May 2007 17:48:48 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO If you want/are willing to wear a bonnet, I have a VERY inexpensive solution. Find a straw hat blank, (I got mine at Michael's Craft Store = for about $2.) Cut a "U" shaped piece out of the back so your head fits comfortably. Paint black using spray paint or craft paint. Sew some = black bias trim over rough edge where you cut it off. A simple black ribbon = over the top to hold it on and Voila! a mourning bonnet. You can drape your = scarf over it, or sew/hot glue black flowers/leaves/feathers. Remember, for Victorian hats, if you think it's got enough stuff on it, add more! -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] = On Behalf Of Elizabeth Walpole Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 3:00 AM To: Historic Costume Subject: [h-cost] a cheat's late Victorian hat Hi everyone, A friend is throwing a costume party next month and has = decided the theme is 'an Irish wake' so she wants everyone in black or green, so when the topic of mourning comes up I tend to think Victorian as I = already had plans for a natural form dress I just decided to bump this project = to the top of my list and make it mourning wear. But I'm stuck on headwear, = I have a chiffon scarf that would work OK as a widow's veil. It is a long thin rectangle so it won't work just draped over my head, but if I = attach the long side to the edge of a hat it should work OK as a veil (I=20 experimented with pinning it to the inside of my sun hat and it came = down to about an inch below my shoulders). I have about 1/2 a metre of buckram=20 (though it's not proper millinery buckram) and some wire left over from=20 making the crescent of my 16th century French hood plus some scraps of = black velveteen or satin to cover it. I've also got Butterick 4210 which I = might=20 be able to adapt, but I don't have money to buy a bonnet and I don't = really=20 want to spend much money on this costume (as the only place I can = usually=20 wear Victorian stuff is a dance so bonnets/hats aren't really = appropriate) thanks Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole | Elizabeth Beaumont Canberra, Australia | Politarchopolis, Lochac http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 15 17:51:33 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FLpVui006054 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 17:51:31 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4FLpHW5013264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 May 2007 17:51:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4FLoqwK005907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 15 May 2007 15:50:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FLooC6020431; Tue, 15 May 2007 15:50:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FLokpw020373 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 15:50:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A961B4D05CA; Tue, 15 May 2007 21:42:57 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Looking for wide velcro Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 14:50:44 -0700 Message-ID: <007001c7973b$171d76a0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <46491C04.3050601@wideopenwest.com> X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f1965a6d-ffd0-48e7-91fa-fd971448e26c X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 464A2B55.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 15 May 2007 17:51:20 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Can you make it yourself by sewing 1" strips together side by side? -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Michelle Plumb Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 7:34 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Looking for wide velcro Does anyone have any idea where I can get my hands on some large velcro? I need a piece about 4"x12", and so far I've only found stores that sell it by the 25 yard roll. Thanks, Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 15 18:05:00 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FM4wth006649 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 18:04:58 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4FM4hSV029297 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 May 2007 18:04:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4FM3vgH007993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 15 May 2007 16:03:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FM3t8V031065; Tue, 15 May 2007 16:03:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FM3oIe031002 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 16:03:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id AC702BD059A; Tue, 15 May 2007 21:56:00 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] K'zoo catch up Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 15:03:47 -0700 Message-ID: <007101c7973c$e9ba4880$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <40852.74771.qm@web52108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8d93a841-9218-4992-9fd2-a385d37af4f9 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 464A2E7C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 15 May 2007 18:04:48 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO The back of that robe is shown on page 50. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] = On Behalf Of Kathy Page Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 9:43 PM To: Historical Costume List Subject: [h-cost] K'zoo catch up I'll blame this on post-session geekery. ;-) Give us free time, wireless internet access, chocolate and alcohol and = what happens? Images exchanges. No, no... not *those* kinds of images! ;-) Completely different variety of porn.... It's nice to know my memory wasn't completely befuddled and that I could indeed re-find some images I said I had. I don't have the email address = for the one specifically asking for these images, however I thought I'll = post it here, chances are realllllllly good you A) know who you are and B) are = on this list in the first place, so why not share the bounty with everyone = else at the same time? The following site is a French images agency site, to which I found the = 16th c. Venetian coat with front, back and fabric detail.=20 http://www.photo.rmn.fr/c/htm/Search_New.aspx To find the coat specifically, put in "16th century" under "period" then "silk" under "Technic/Material", hit search. his will bring up a = specifics prompt that asks you to choose one from the list. Choose "textile" and = hit search again. The very first image is the coat, after that, you are = rewarded with 50+ pages of images that all share 16thc. silk textile keywords. Be prepared for a whackload of tapestry images, but sift through them for = other gems hiding between. After you're finished with those pages, wander around a little more. Guaranteed to find tonnes of nifty things. :-) Great time consumer and = drool producer. Kathy =20 It=92s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot Tosach e=F3lais imchomarc. - Questioning is the beginning of knowledge. http://www.sengoidelc.com/node/131 Get news delivered with the All new Yahoo! Mail. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page. Start today at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=3Dca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 15 18:10:35 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FMAY3K006804 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 18:10:34 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4FMAKPZ030912 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 May 2007 18:10:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4FM9lgO009024 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 15 May 2007 16:09:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FM9i8r035600; Tue, 15 May 2007 16:09:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FM9fKQ035486 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 16:09:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95679CEEBE for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 17:09:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <464A2FCB.50203@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 17:10:19 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for wide velcro References: <46491C04.3050601@wideopenwest.com> In-Reply-To: <46491C04.3050601@wideopenwest.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: e17d542d-d7d0-4905-83cf-6ed296056055 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 464A2FCC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 15 May 2007 18:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Michelle Plumb wrote: > Does anyone have any idea where I can get my hands on some large velcro? > I need a piece about 4"x12", and so far I've only found stores that > sell it by the 25 yard roll. > Sold by the foot: http://www.beaconfabric.com/vindex.html?cat126.htm By the yard on ebay: http://crafts.search.ebay.com/_Other-Arts-Crafts_W0QQcatrefZC12QQsacatZ75576QQsassZvelcroplus Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 15 18:31:39 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FMVdoq007873 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 18:31:39 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4FMVPst000795 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 May 2007 18:31:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4FMUqI6012594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 15 May 2007 16:30:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FMUovX052447; Tue, 15 May 2007 16:30:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-8.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-8.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.26]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4FMUkkw052346 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 16:30:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mplumb@wideopenwest.com) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (d14-69-62-55.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.55.62]) by pop-8.dnv.wideopenwest.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l4FMUe2R030374 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 17:30:41 -0500 Message-ID: <464A34FB.1090204@wideopenwest.com> Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 18:32:27 -0400 From: Michelle Plumb User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070305) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for wide velcro Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 rep=4% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: d39e331f-3d16-4c30-b54b-dc2e6d166c8e X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 464A34BD.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 15 May 2007 18:31:28 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Thanks so much, folks! I found what I needed. Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 15 20:20:09 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4G0K9oS012869 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 20:20:09 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4G0JtbW000434 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 15 May 2007 20:19:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4G0J4Y9027739 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 15 May 2007 18:19:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4G0IxQS023950; Tue, 15 May 2007 18:18:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4G0IuLj023877 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 18:18:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.d22.5aedaca (40522) for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 20:18:45 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 20:18:45 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] a cheat's late Victorian hat To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5366 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: cabd9523-346a-4f07-8dad-182f939c5dd9 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 464A4E2B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 15 May 2007 20:19:58 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/15/2007 5:48:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sharon@collierfam.com writes: I've also got Butterick 4210 ******************* Hat D looks very "Merry Widow" deep mourning bonnet to me. Imagine it all black with a veil all the way round. I'd go super Edward Gorey just for the fun of it. All black....long dramatic veil....maybe a black fur boa-like stole. Black gloves and a large black umbrella. Be sure to paint some circles under your moist eyes that you keep dabbing with that huge black lace hanky. And walk around in a daze...completely devastated. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 16 21:33:31 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H1XVOr017671 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:33:31 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4H1XGbR031810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 May 2007 21:33:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4H1WeYT008430 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 16 May 2007 19:32:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H1WcOc048035; Wed, 16 May 2007 19:32:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alnrmhc13.comcast.net (alnrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.225.93]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4G40KMJ053397 for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 22:00:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.102] (c-24-61-47-3.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.61.47.3]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc13) with SMTP id <20070516040015b1300dnpupe>; Wed, 16 May 2007 04:00:15 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) To: h-costume h-costume Message-Id: <95224C16-8990-44A3-B8ED-C170A882D679@comcast.net> From: Lauren Walker Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 00:00:11 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Somewhat OT -- Black detergent? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 291538ba-c872-450a-a6b3-fbbb3ce9c73a X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 464BB0DC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 16 May 2007 21:33:20 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi, A couple of the laundry soap companies now offer products recommended for dark-colored clothes. The liquids appear to actually be dark- colored themselves. I wear a lot of black, and it fades. I am wondering if anybody has used any of these products, and if they help restore dark colors or just mimimize fading, or if, perhaps they do not do anything at all? Also, did it stain the washer or anything? In the 18th C and perhaps other times, they was a whole service in redying black stuff, a function now mostly covered by Rit. I was just wondering about the effectiveness of these soap things, if anybody's had experience. Thanks. Lauren Lauren M. Walker lauren.walker@comcast.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 16 21:33:32 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H1XVFb017672 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:33:31 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4H1XGnp016495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 May 2007 21:33:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4H1Wbea008422 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 16 May 2007 19:32:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H1WSgk047900; Wed, 16 May 2007 19:32:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail10.tpgi.com.au (mail10.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.147]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4G2OYO5002699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 15 May 2007 20:24:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-222-63-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.222.63]) by mail10.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l4G2OUfC004755 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 12:24:31 +1000 Message-ID: <000901c79761$55bead90$3fdef5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Split drawer pattern online? Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 12:24:27 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=17% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 0795afcf-df23-4584-8113-8f5e92769806 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 464BB0DC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 16 May 2007 21:33:20 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "h-costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 2:48 AM Subject: [h-cost] Split drawer pattern online? >There used to be a split drawer's drafting pattern/instruction online, >which I cannot, for the life of me, find again. >As I recall, it was something like Mrs. Clarks pattern (it was a simple >name, could have been Brown, Smith etc) >Anyone know where it is or have a copy of it? >Thanks, >Sg I assume you mean the instructions from Elizabeth Stewart Clark this is her dressmaking articles page http://www.elizabethstewartclark.com/GAMC/FP/index.htm -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 16 21:38:02 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H1c264017798 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:38:02 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4H1bm5l017356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 May 2007 21:37:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4H1bU0c009924 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 16 May 2007 19:37:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H1bTxM053454; Wed, 16 May 2007 19:37:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s37.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s37.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.109]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4GH3SNQ037184 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 11:03:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.17]) by bay0-omc1-s37.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Wed, 16 May 2007 10:03:22 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 16 May 2007 10:03:22 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 209.180.136.218 by BAY133-DAV7.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 16 May 2007 17:03:18 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [209.180.136.218] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "h-costume" Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 10:03:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 16 May 2007 10:03:36 -0700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 May 2007 17:03:22.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[1C412860:01C797DC] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Question about early 19th century underclothing. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4dd0ae94-11ff-4715-980c-29721910224d X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 464BB1EC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 16 May 2007 21:37:51 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi, I have been asked to create an under dress for this gown for the = Phoenix Art Museum. = http://www.coraginsburg.com/catalogues/2004/cat2004pg10&11.htm As you can see, it is pictured with a white under dress. My questions = are the following. Would there be a difference between an under dress (it doesn't look as = though it was ever lined) and an actual chemise?=20 I was thinking perhaps someone would wear a simple chemise, then perhaps = a corset, and then the under dress, and finally a dress? I am creating the under dress on a Kyoto dress form, which is solid. = The dress fits it, but the breasts are rather large compared to the rest = of the dummy and the only way I can get it to fit properly is to either = create darts or gather it under the breasts. Would the under dress be = tailored like the dress? (I have Arnold's patterns of fashion of this = period and have ordered Hunisett's book for the same time frame to see = if it has any further clues.) If there were an under dress, would it necessarily have been white and = not a similar color to the gown? Thanks for pointers you can give me.=20 Saragrace Knauf _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 16 21:38:27 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H1cRZj017805 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:38:27 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4H1cC9u031534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 May 2007 21:38:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4H1bpr4010022 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 16 May 2007 19:37:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H1bnnk053764; Wed, 16 May 2007 19:37:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp101.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp101.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.139]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4GCgVxD010301 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 06:42:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 84208 invoked from network); 16 May 2007 12:42:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.244.46 with login) by smtp101.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 May 2007 12:42:26 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: rrGt0voVM1lhOjxHhrM897z4wsjkSY7JVz2URz_mk_9EdL442ayqm998nlSd5WVKsIN_oS8ZKYWnjbvVSaFXefF7.dg- Message-ID: <000c01c797b7$a2005a90$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <007001c7973b$171d76a0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for wide velcro Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 08:42:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ae7e79c3-f33e-4fb2-8179-61d842eb871d X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 464BB204.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 16 May 2007 21:38:16 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO You might see if your local cobbler might have some of the wider width velcro he could part with. Some keep this on hand for various mending projects. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 5:50 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Looking for wide velcro > Can you make it yourself by sewing 1" strips together side by side? > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Michelle Plumb > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 7:34 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] Looking for wide velcro > > > Does anyone have any idea where I can get my hands on some large velcro? > I need a piece about 4"x12", and so far I've only found stores that > sell it by the 25 yard roll. > > Thanks, > Michelle > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 16 21:38:56 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H1cto7017815 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:38:55 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4H1cfUa006484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 May 2007 21:38:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4H1cL6I010142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 16 May 2007 19:38:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H1cJ5T054284; Wed, 16 May 2007 19:38:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from barra1.swissinfo.org (barra1.barra.srg.ch [146.159.6.75]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4GJTf3b078406 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 13:29:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from swissgirl@swissinfo.org) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1179343774-636a00090000-L6CAXr X-Barracuda-URL: http://146.159.6.75:8000/cgi-bin/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Connect: kuma.sri.ch[194.6.181.33] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1179343774 X-ASG-Whitelist: Sender Received: from mail.swissinfo.org (kuma.sri.ch [194.6.181.33]) by barra1.swissinfo.org (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id C781075036 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:29:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from compaqub (24.216.120.37) by mail.swissinfo.org (7.2.064.1) (authenticated as swissgirl) id 45DAE0BC038DC411 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:29:34 +0200 Message-ID: <02ba01c797f0$98c0b5e0$dd00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: X-ASG-Orig-Subj: weirdish terminology question Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 14:29:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Barracuda-Virus-Scanned: by Barracuda Spam Firewall at swissinfo.org X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] weirdish terminology question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 6602bfc7-b689-46a3-ab11-461dba49b394 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 464BB221.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 16 May 2007 21:38:45 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I'm going to spend a while fishing through Google's book search, and = since I've already found a surprising amount of results from books that = quote wills, inventories, wardrobe accounts, etc, I have a slightly odd = request of the list. I'm trying to think of good Ye Olde Englishe key = words that will help me find these, like 'velwet' and 'vellat' and = 'velvett.' Can anyone help me think of properly spellt English (sticking with that = for now) costume terms from say, 1100-1650, that seem likely to result = in wardrobe accounts, inventories, wills, etc? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 16 21:44:56 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H1itCZ017967 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:44:55 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4H1ifOO018802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 May 2007 21:44:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4H1enSf010830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 16 May 2007 19:40:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H1emNm056534; Wed, 16 May 2007 19:40:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m02.lax.untd.com (m02.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.65]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4GKbkw9041633 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 14:37:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from llwatts@juno.com) Received: from m02.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m02.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABDEY45MAV8WS2A for (sender ); Wed, 16 May 2007 13:36:59 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: WJAeLflMin2r+7mN51BJ7lteMGmJ4hJPf+RU7kBKhDBgeESh2rdi3w== Received: (from llwatts@juno.com) by m02.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id MMVYRUS6; Wed, 16 May 2007 13:36:35 PDT To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:35:48 -0500 Message-ID: <20070516.153549.128.1.LLWatts@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.49 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-5 From: Leah L Watts X-ContentStamp: 2:2:947161772 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m02.lax.untd.com|llwatts@juno.com X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Subject: [h-cost] book review wanted: Shaker Textile Arts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 6545a991-672f-4008-903d-c633d5e036fb X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 464BB389.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 16 May 2007 21:44:45 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I'm looking for information on Shaker clothing, ideally around the time of the Great Awakening (1800-1830). I was searching Amazon and found the book Shaker Textile Arts, by Beverly Gordon. It looks like it will have the information I need, but it's also $30 -- does anyone have this book? Is it worth the money? Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 16 22:31:06 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H2V6Yh019076 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 22:31:06 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4H2UpOH009940 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 May 2007 22:30:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4H2TxqW016888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 16 May 2007 20:29:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H2TvI5085029; Wed, 16 May 2007 20:29:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net (ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net [166.102.165.166]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H2TsGJ084940 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 20:29:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net ([162.40.180.54]) by ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20070517022948.TUIK21809.ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net@ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net> for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:29:48 -0500 Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.180.54]) by ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20070517022948.WSUT5115.ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:29:48 -0500 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 21:28:23 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: Re: [h-cost] Perpignan cloth In-Reply-To: <200705170132.l4H1WVgt047947@net.indra.com> References: <200705170132.l4H1WVgt047947@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Message-Id: <20070517022948.WSUT5115.ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=45% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7dfb561a-b791-4e82-95bb-9825311e0d05 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 464BBE5B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 16 May 2007 22:30:55 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi Kathy, I ran into this about a year or so ago from the same source and couldn't find out any more info on it. I have a copy of Hoshino, Hidetoshi. L'arte della lana in Firenze nel basso Medioevo: il commercio della lana e il mercato dei panni fiorentini nei secoli XIII-XV. Biblioteca storica toscana, 21. Firenze: L.S. Olschki, 1980. ISBN: 8822229568 OCLC: 7530060 that Frick references regarding this but, while useful, it's focus is on trade and economics and I could find no hint of the weave structure. I also attempted to contact Dr. Frick (she teaches at a University in Oklahoma.. the next state over) as to why she used the term "jersey" to describe it but never received a reply. The only other book that I have that mentions (in a textile context) Perpignan is Cardon, Dominique. La draperie au Moyen Age: essor d'une grande industrie europe enne. Paris: CNRS Ed, 1999. ISBN: 227105592X OCLC: 50663845 As I am seriously weak in French, this is proving very slow going for me. Beth >Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 14:07:23 -0700 (PDT) >From: Kathy Page > >I have just been flipping through Dressing Renaissance Florence, and >they mention "hosiery itself was made of perpignan cloth >(perpignano), a washable and stretchy woolen jersey fabric, >originally developed by weavers in Perpignan, France." >Has anyone ever heard of this stuff before, and if so, what is its' >weave structure? What would it be close to in modern terms? This >answers a lot of questions why Italian men's hose are so smooth and >tight looking. If I can find a reasonable equivalent, it will make >my job MUCH easier on this commission that I have been stalled on for so long. > >Kathy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 16 22:35:46 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H2Zkww019149 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 22:35:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4H2ZWVw017676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 May 2007 22:35:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4H2YkS9017407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 16 May 2007 20:34:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H2Yh5e087672; Wed, 16 May 2007 20:34:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H2Yexo087650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 20:34:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [209.148.118.34] (209-148-118-34.dial.dynamic.sonic.net [209.148.118.34]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l4H2YcxG020231 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 19:34:39 -0700 Message-ID: <464BBF43.3090906@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 19:34:43 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Somewhat OT -- Black detergent? References: <95224C16-8990-44A3-B8ED-C170A882D679@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <95224C16-8990-44A3-B8ED-C170A882D679@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b32ed430-da39-4891-8a69-5c58169f19ee X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 464BBF74.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 16 May 2007 22:35:35 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO My advice is: Always wash the clothes in 100% cold water, and If they are cotton or linen or rayon, in other words 100% cellulose fiber, re-dye them black using Procion MX dye from someplace like Dharma Trading (www.dharmatrading.com), following the directions given. Except, for washer dyeing in my washer (it holds 15 or 16 gallons) I have found that I need precisely twice as much dye as the amount stated, which seems to be calculated for vat dyeing. The quantity of water used really does count, even if the directions only mention the weight of the fabric to be dyed. Rit is a less fast dye than Procion and, IMO, no easier to use. Procion dye does not stain the washer at all. The laundry products--which may be weak solutions of dark dye, I have never tried them--probably will not either, as the companies that manufacture such products test them extensively for consumer feedback. Also, I think coloring the kind of materials your washer is made of requires entirely different chemicals than textile fibers. If your clothes are silk or wool, Dharma and similar suppliers sell other home dyes, which I have not tried, for protein fibers. If the clothes are entirely or partly synthetic, as far as home dyeing goes you may be out of luck. However, there are dry cleaners who provide re-dyeing services, and perhaps they will dye synthetics for you. I don't know. If this is a big problem, you might in future consider slanting your purchases towards 100% cotton which is the easiest fiber to dye, IMO. Rayon takes dye very well but is less sturdy in my experience, and can be problematic for machine dyeing. Silk also takes dye well but I'd hesitate to machine dye some silks. Can't say I've had any real experience with dyeing silks though. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Vintage Clothing http://www.lavoltapress.com Lauren Walker wrote: > Hi, > A couple of the laundry soap companies now offer products recommended > for dark-colored clothes. The liquids appear to actually be dark- > colored themselves. I wear a lot of black, and it fades. I am wondering > if anybody has used any of these products, and if they help restore > dark colors or just mimimize fading, or if, perhaps they do not do > anything at all? Also, did it stain the washer or anything? > > In the 18th C and perhaps other times, they was a whole service in > redying black stuff, a function now mostly covered by Rit. I was just > wondering about the effectiveness of these soap things, if anybody's > had experience. > Thanks. > Lauren > Lauren M. Walker > lauren.walker@comcast.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 16 23:08:14 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H38E44019587 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 23:08:14 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4H380C9022400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 May 2007 23:08:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4H37SSX020670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 16 May 2007 21:07:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H37Rlv006172; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:07:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.116]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H37NXP006073 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:07:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Kiloran@worldnet.att.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h-69-3-58-179.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net[69.3.58.179]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with ESMTP id <2007051703071811200dvj83e>; Thu, 17 May 2007 03:07:18 +0000 Message-ID: <464BC6EB.5030308@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:07:23 -0700 From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200705170132.l4H1WVgt047947@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200705170132.l4H1WVgt047947@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] measurement chart site? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7216a959-8048-4e9a-997a-53a65e9394c2 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 464BC710.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 16 May 2007 23:08:04 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Can an body recommend a website where I can find a form of some kind that shows all the various body measurements you'd need to take of a person if you were going to make clothing or garb for them? I know the standard ones (bust, waist, etc.) but I'd really like to find a detailed chart that I can use. Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 00:50:36 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H4oYvx021479 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 00:50:34 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4H4oJ3T027288 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 00:50:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4H4nk1V029739 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 16 May 2007 22:49:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H4nf9f060971; Wed, 16 May 2007 22:49:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail8.tpgi.com.au (mail8.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.46]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H4naDG060919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 22:49:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-244-241-216-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.244.241.216]) by mail8.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l4H4nWvu004750 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 14:49:34 +1000 Message-ID: <001301c7983e$c34a01b0$d8f1f4dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about early 19th century underclothing. Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 14:49:31 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=17% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2767f98f-4144-415d-b8c8-81e3a6d819c8 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 464BDF0B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 00:50:23 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "h-costume" Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 3:03 AM Subject: [h-cost] Question about early 19th century underclothing. >Hi, I have been asked to create an under dress for this gown for the >Phoenix Art Museum. >http://www.coraginsburg.com/catalogues/2004/cat2004pg10&11.htm As you can see, it is pictured with a white under dress. My questions are the following. >Would there be a difference between an under dress (it doesn't look as >though it was ever lined) and an actual chemise? I was thinking perhaps someone would wear a simple chemise, then perhaps a corset, and then the under dress, and finally a dress? >I am creating the under dress on a Kyoto dress form, which is solid. The >dress fits it, but the breasts are rather large compared to the rest of the >dummy and the only way I can get it to fit properly is to either create >darts or gather it under the breasts. Would the under dress be tailored >like the dress? (I have Arnold's patterns of fashion of this period and >have ordered Hunisett's book for the same time frame to see if it has any >further clues.) >If there were an under dress, would it necessarily have been white and not >a similar color to the gown? >Thanks for pointers you can give me. >Saragrace Knauf I would suggest a bodiced petticoat over the chemise and corset, you can see one costumer's version here http://www.koshka-the-cat.com/regency_underthings.html and instructions to make a bust supporting variety here http://www.sensibility.com/pattern/petticoat.htm and a photo of a real original petticoat in the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston, collection http://preview.tinyurl.com/2quokm Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 01:11:41 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H5Bfrg021871 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 01:11:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4H5BRbY027957 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 01:11:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4H5B5Pw031591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 16 May 2007 23:11:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H5B4Jl070892; Wed, 16 May 2007 23:11:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52109.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web52109.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.48.112]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4H5B0FF070814 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 23:11:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 59058 invoked by uid 60001); 17 May 2007 05:10:55 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=dkO9lbGIplx4xqHaTCeda98bbd8FSxBmTIrtM0pY+uuWaBBgv9X3zL8Y0dOzYdXLFCbtCMprp1NZVKmJv7fWh6ATqFE0aGuhT6nD5r4lMFbrGyNqP6XmDgo2/96mQwxPFMV+c+Q/7+PXdz0120HFJEkXA7OcW1IuE35fdQaD2o8=; X-YMail-OSG: gYxRJBEVM1mC_k1H4E6G5aMTnPUqx9D0xfZF30P6K1TH.LmIkBfna52ZBogsgDmAbpaEkkI.LM9N6QdQUQJDvVAk3tAyMvYNOURe.leo1UNh5L1WEWWp122g49K.wEQ0l31H6._taimH.JMjVWFVOWfmxg-- Received: from [74.114.43.209] by web52109.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 May 2007 22:10:55 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.23 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.10 Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 22:10:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <618942.58306.qm@web52109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=19% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Perpginan cloth X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ea3fc1c3-b8de-442d-b6e8-5a8b804e4223 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464BE3FF.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 01:11:30 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Welllll..... yeah. although I have found a vanishingly small collection of = wool jersey cloth out there, mostly vintage or British in origin, that *alm= ost* looks like it could be woven. Very fine, mind, but that also lends its= elf to the difficulty of establishing its structure. =0AThe term jersey, ac= cording to the OEM, lists it to 1583, referring to knitted cloth. So, I sus= pect her terminology could be an issue. Knitting in this context really was= n't that popular as far back as the reference she makes - IIRC, the 1100's = or so. =0A=0AKathy=0A =0AErmine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on= the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert=0A(Fie= ldless) On a rose Or barbed vert a lion's head erased gules. =0AIt=92s neve= r too late to be who you might have been.=0A-George Eliot=0ATosach e=F3lais= imchomarc. - Questioning is the beginning of knowledge. http://www.sengoid= elc.com/node/131=0A=0AI thought "jersey" was by definition a knit or looped= fabric? I could see =0Adeveloping a strechy fabric using over twisted wo= ol or some other technique, =0Abut I think if it's woven, it's not jersey.= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGu= ard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail at http:/= /mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=3Dca=0A _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 01:36:46 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H5adtk022413 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 01:36:42 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4H5aPYp006692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 01:36:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4H5ZsH3033362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 16 May 2007 23:35:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H5ZrYF082301; Wed, 16 May 2007 23:35:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.48.110]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4H5Znah082232 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 23:35:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 51469 invoked by uid 60001); 17 May 2007 05:35:44 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=KRz3II/76RdvBO0Ru6uIakmVlqFZF4iXUu8pfp23eNwNAKICC+eYOc7Q1+d9iXwmwYrJIGF4/pfS2JuTQPCccIZBG1GfV8b/pw+43n1DZ43P9/qxDou/2QLG/Lqh7v9fLYefIS8SghL264Ml2SWpX+3IEv1dBOedhPwxrSWvd40=; X-YMail-OSG: Zv02aBcVM1lJldyB9BiRTfW6yUyiAogYpX.u6.2gRjPOczw2i1a0jEqy_BBnjs6DOA-- Received: from [74.114.43.209] by web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 May 2007 22:35:44 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.23 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.10 Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 22:35:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <334235.49957.qm@web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=15% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Perpignan cloth X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: e0d0b353-b0f3-496d-a732-bb0603003913 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464BE9D9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 01:36:29 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi Beth,=0A=0AAhhhh... you've just saved me a bunch of headaches and time c= onsumption. I am stronger in French than I am in Italian! So the reference = only occurs in text outside of direct cloth manufacture, hmm. That's annoyi= ng.=0AGar. This French book only shows up in a couple of libraries around h= ere, all of which charge for the ILL. hmm.. unless I convince a local to U = of T to snag it for me and make a copy. My husband is fully bilingual, I ca= n bribe him to at least look up the indexes for me and see if the reference= s are any good.=0ADarn! And I was hoping to solve my issues with something = easy!=0A=0AGee... I wonder if contacting a museum in Perpignan might prove = fruitful? I wonder if they have something like that. *goes googling*=0AAha.= I think I may have something. The village indeed does have museums (these = are the divisions most likely to have information useful to us):=0A=0A=0A = Mus=E9e =0A des Beaux-Arts Hyacinthe Rig= aud=0A=0A 16, rue de l'Ange=0A=0A 660= 00 PERPIGNAN=0A=0A T=E9l : 04 68 35 81 23=0A=0A = M=E9l : Musee-rigaud@mairie-perpignan.com=0A=0A = Peinture =0A=0A Mus=E9e =0A du Casti= llet Casa Pairal=0A=0A Place de Verdun =0A=0A = 66000 PERPIGNAN=0A=0A T=E9l : 04 68 35 42 05=0A= =0A Arts et traditions populaires=0A=0A = =0A Mus=E9e =0A arch=E9ologique de Rus= cino=0A=0A (en cours de cr=E9ation)=0A=0A = Centre Arch=E9ologique de Ruscino=0A=0A Ch=E2teau R= oussillon=0A=0A 66000 PERPIGNAN=0A=0A = T=E9l : 04 68 67 47 17=0A=0A Site arch=E9ologique=0A=0A= =0AI'll have to wait until hub is awake and in a mood to be coerced into he= lping me to brew up a contact email. We can hope they know what we are talk= ing about, or at least something that helps clear up just what this stuff r= eally is.=0A=0A=0AOnto a new adventure...=0A=0AKathy=0A =0A=0AErmine, a lio= n rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, s= eeded, slipped and leaved vert=0A(Fieldless) On a rose Or barbed vert a lio= n's head erased gules. =0AIt=92s never too late to be who you might have be= en.=0A-George Eliot=0ATosach e=F3lais imchomarc. - Questioning is the begin= ning of knowledge. http://www.sengoidelc.com/node/131=0A=0Athat Frick= references regarding this but, while useful, it's focus is =0Aon trade and= economics and I could find no hint of the weave =0Astructure. I also attem= pted to contact Dr. Frick (she teaches at a =0AUniversity in Oklahoma.. the= next state over) as to why she used the =0Aterm "jersey" to describe it bu= t never received a reply.=0A=0AThe only other book that I have that mention= s (in a textile context) =0APerpignan is=0A=0ACardon, Dominique. La draperi= e au Moyen Age: essor d'une grande =0Aindustrie europe enne. Paris: CNRS Ed= , 1999. ISBN: 227105592X OCLC: 50663845=0A=0AAs I am seriously weak in Fre= nch, this is proving very slow going for me.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A = Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo= ! Mail: http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=3Dca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 03:21:15 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H7LEWk018413 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 03:21:14 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4H7KxnN021665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 03:21:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4H7JoTk041430 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 01:19:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H7Jm7i035166; Thu, 17 May 2007 01:19:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.200.83]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H7JikL035096 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 01:19:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gilshallos@comcast.net) Message-Id: <200705170719.l4H7JikL035096@net.indra.com> Received: from nunnweinberg1.comcast.net (c-75-73-50-142.hsd1.mn.comcast.net[75.73.50.142]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2007051707193801300a426oe>; Thu, 17 May 2007 07:19:39 +0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 02:15:29 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-opening style purse X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2b796ae6-c5f7-4e15-ad4d-6201600ef220 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 464C025C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 03:21:03 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Greetings, I'm looking for a 15th century replica frame-opening style purse. It has a metal circular opening (with a hinged lid) that the leather pouch hangs from, in case you don't know what I mean by "frame". I'm not sure what the actual name of that type of purse would be. Does anyone know where I can purchase such an item? I have yet to turn up a merchant who sells them. Any help would be appreciated. Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 04:11:44 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H8Bh4l022137 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 04:11:43 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4H8BTLA013502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 04:11:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4H85rRt045932 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 02:05:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H85pDU058538; Thu, 17 May 2007 02:05:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from paradise.gen.nz (qmailr@tombstone.paradise.gen.nz [202.49.254.2]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H85jxl058481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 02:05:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gold@where.else.net.nz) Received: (qmail 29577 invoked by uid 1057); 17 May 2007 08:05:44 -0000 Received: from 121.73.25.58 by tombstone (envelope-from , uid 71) with qmail-scanner-1.24 (clamdscan: 0.80/599. spamassassin: 3.0.1. Clear:RC:1(121.73.25.58):. Processed in 0.041449 secs); 17 May 2007 08:05:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (gold@121.73.25.58) by tombstone.paradise.gen.nz with SMTP; 17 May 2007 08:05:44 -0000 Message-ID: <464C0CB0.2040808@where.else.net.nz> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 20:05:04 +1200 From: Melissa Brown Muckart User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Somewhat OT -- Black detergent? References: <95224C16-8990-44A3-B8ED-C170A882D679@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <95224C16-8990-44A3-B8ED-C170A882D679@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 779a7f0e-e34b-4503-8974-500f0f422f18 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464C0E31.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 04:11:33 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Lauren Walker wrote: > Hi, > A couple of the laundry soap companies now offer products recommended > for dark-colored clothes. The liquids appear to actually be dark-colored > themselves. I wear a lot of black, and it fades. I am wondering if > anybody has used any of these products, and if they help restore dark > colors or just mimimize fading, or if, perhaps they do not do anything > at all? Also, did it stain the washer or anything? I've used the brand available here in NZ on dark washes and there is no staining of the washer. The clothes look fine but I haven't used it long enough to tell you if it restores dark or just helps minimize fading. The darks certainly don't look to be fading any _more_ though. I'll buy it again and see how if my blacks stay black using this detergent. Melissa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 04:15:25 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H8FOqR022818 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 04:15:24 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4H8FAWR015460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 04:15:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4H8EnVA046775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 02:14:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H8EmJT063791; Thu, 17 May 2007 02:14:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep32.mail.dk (fep32.mail.dk [80.160.76.196]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H8EifC063719 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 02:14:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep42.mail.dk ([195.41.46.225]) by fep32.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070517081439.JOSS5600.fep32.mail.dk@fep42.mail.dk> for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:14:39 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.20.121]) by fep42.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070517081438.IOYI1153.fep42.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:14:38 +0200 Message-ID: <003001c7985b$70c8c440$7914a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200705170719.l4H7JikL035096@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-opening style purse Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:14:48 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep42.mail.dk from [80.161.20.121] at Thu, 17 May 2007 10:14:33 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=23% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: dd23f76e-e772-41d2-8f3c-6d6a03058ac4 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464C0F0E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 04:15:14 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi Danielle, I dont think you will find a replica 15th century one, but you can get different styles today: http://www.countrybumpkin.com.au/index.php?cPath=23_163 These are Australian, but i am sure others carries them two. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:15 AM Subject: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-opening style purse > Greetings, > > I'm looking for a 15th century replica frame-opening style purse. It has > a metal circular opening (with a hinged lid) that the leather pouch hangs > from, in case you don't know what I mean by "frame". I'm not sure what > the actual name of that type of purse would be. Does anyone know where I > can purchase such an item? I have yet to turn up a merchant who sells > them. Any help would be appreciated. > > Cheers, > Danielle > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 05:30:51 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H9UoJq004184 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 05:30:51 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4H9UahL024042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 05:30:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4H9Tmqf053830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 03:29:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H9Thja002740; Thu, 17 May 2007 03:29:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [216.148.227.151]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H9TcbQ002651 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 03:29:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gilshallos@comcast.net) Message-Id: <200705170929.l4H9TcbQ002651@net.indra.com> Received: from nunnweinberg1.comcast.net (c-75-73-50-142.hsd1.mn.comcast.net[75.73.50.142]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20070517092932m11006etmge>; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:29:33 +0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 04:25:47 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-opening style purse In-Reply-To: <003001c7985b$70c8c440$7914a150@CPQ21932199711> References: <200705170719.l4H7JikL035096@net.indra.com> <003001c7985b$70c8c440$7914a150@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: dd092da6-2317-421d-aabd-eb921268f4b3 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 464C20BC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 05:30:40 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi Bjarne, Thanks. They aren't quite what I'm looking for. I have seen people walking around events wearing the type of purse I'm looking for so I know that someone has made them, I'm just not sure who. Cheers, Danielle At 03:14 AM 5/17/2007, you wrote: >Hi Danielle, >I dont think you will find a replica 15th century one, but you can >get different styles today: >http://www.countrybumpkin.com.au/index.php?cPath=23_163 >These are Australian, but i am sure others carries them two. > >Bjarne >----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" > >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:15 AM >Subject: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-opening style purse > > >>Greetings, >> >>I'm looking for a 15th century replica frame-opening style >>purse. It has a metal circular opening (with a hinged lid) that >>the leather pouch hangs from, in case you don't know what I mean by >>"frame". I'm not sure what the actual name of that type of purse >>would be. Does anyone know where I can purchase such an item? I >>have yet to turn up a merchant who sells them. Any help would be appreciated. >> >>Cheers, >>Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 06:23:43 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HANgsh013332 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 06:23:42 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HANReC030822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 06:23:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HAKwVX058265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 04:20:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HAKrRb029988; Thu, 17 May 2007 04:20:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HAKlJG029866 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 04:20:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.cf5.b6494be (30740) for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 06:20:25 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 06:20:25 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about early 19th century underclothing. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9a35e1a0-3d61-495b-ab2a-67d9d25a85a7 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 464C2D1F.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 06:23:31 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/16/2007 9:37:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wickedfrau@msn.com writes: Would there be a difference between an under dress (it doesn't look as though it was ever lined) and an actual chemise? I was thinking perhaps someone would wear a simple chemise, then perhaps a corset, and then the under dress, and finally a dress? You are on the right track. In the period, the underdress was called a slip, but it was cut very similarly to the dress. If the overdress has darts, use them in the underdress; otherwise, I would cut the front bodice on the bias and gather at waist and neck with drawstrings. I have seen one sleeveless one. However, if it has sleeves, and the oversleeves are a little flimsy, the puffed undersleeve would give it some support. As to color, some were flesh-toned, to give the "nude" look. One other I have seen was white. Colored underdresses seem to come in around 1817 or so, but I may be wrong--they may be earlier. But, in that case, the overdress would probably have trim of the same color. Good luck! Ann Wass Ann Wass ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 08:07:47 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HC7lEm032627 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 08:07:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HC7WGE023079 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 08:07:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HC6mwA070413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 06:06:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HC6iGB090986; Thu, 17 May 2007 06:06:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.140]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4HC6eM4090885 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 06:06:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 9057 invoked from network); 17 May 2007 12:06:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@71.182.167.18 with login) by smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2007 12:06:35 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 6RZ_vV0VM1kR0fgPrqWk_utEvW3US2CVStG5Y1BNJlGhRufffdQaPJQkyIsVY9i6fHxRCW_Bdm1Kzh33jYT2r04tDH5cWK2L5uuX08c.vmC7N15KFmvv Message-ID: <003801c7987b$d191c860$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200705170719.l4H7JikL035096@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-opening style purse Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 08:02:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 494a1191-dfa4-45c0-8177-c0d48496c349 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 464C4584.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 08:07:36 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Another resource: flea markets or antique sales. This style was used "again" in the 19 century and appears in the 1920s and 1930s. This style of top often outlived the fabric/leather purse/pocket that would have been attached. I have also seen a modified top used for an oldfashioned ice pack. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 3:15 AM Subject: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-opening style purse > Greetings, > > I'm looking for a 15th century replica frame-opening style purse. It has > a metal circular opening (with a hinged lid) that the leather pouch hangs > from, in case you don't know what I mean by "frame". I'm not sure what > the actual name of that type of purse would be. Does anyone know where I > can purchase such an item? I have yet to turn up a merchant who sells > them. Any help would be appreciated. > > Cheers, > Danielle > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 08:42:50 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HCgnTm001462 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 08:42:50 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HCgZh4015390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 08:42:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HCg9xI074330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 06:42:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HCg6Dq011928; Thu, 17 May 2007 06:42:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4GDe716050215 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 07:40:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m171.in-tch.com [216.166.191.171]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id l4GDPSB19114 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 07:25:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <003d01c797c1$044595e0$abbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7.0.1.0.2.20070515175407.024cee40@suziclarke.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert? Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 07:49:23 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ed774d11-ee71-4050-8c29-ed0295aab058 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 464C4DBB.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 08:42:39 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO That's a very cool website, although I find the graphics a little distracting. Thanks for the link! Now, I'm not a 19th century geek, but I find myself with a question about those split drawers (truly, just odd timing ...I went to a play this weekend that had midwestern-US-cancan-dancers in it, and for some reason, I was wondering if that "flip the skirts up over one's head and wiggle one's backside move, or the high kicks, originally offered more of a *koff* view than we'd think). When did it become common practice for the split to be sewn up? --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert? > The lady in question is Elizabeth Stewart Clark. > http://www.elizabethstewartclark.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 08:43:26 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HChQUA001527 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 08:43:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HChBdi032027 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 08:43:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HCgf1K074415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 06:42:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HCgfjF012327; Thu, 17 May 2007 06:42:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.238]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H17KYT033735 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 19:07:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id m7so803013nzf for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 18:07:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=Bse3nQs/qFhmg7kvgYTpgRgkjfehKmMr2OpWSMpI+d6HtAyfCTstBA4vdUVAgjMiRFPUPsUG4Mnz81O54431bQJyHEiqSirQwhXOO1vrVOrezGzposy/T6Ul0p8mOAUAFQhTWKxLB1uxxLNYxTKl+Z1SQtKr6EkdTmLHGyXflBI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=GFlJIZ2W504XYL8rBmi1hLm09lmkT/s/Mcp76a8dkpPZZc1PT2O1Ls+96h1P2n/WM5+N7Rn/MLq5mARqBJyuWC47qHqKIfirtttTu/R9JgfLzNNsbkojnv1L0UUxBuHYq7WvQFB9m6HddfdJDxffqX8IFMQTk+noouvz/JZDCKo= Received: by 10.114.38.2 with SMTP id l2mr2619231wal.1179364039504; Wed, 16 May 2007 18:07:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.131.18 with HTTP; Wed, 16 May 2007 18:07:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 18:07:19 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: What would you do with this fabric. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4446c12e-12c2-48a3-825d-dc857d15a098 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 464C4DE0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 08:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO What would you do with this fabric. http://www.saragrace.us/images/Fabrics/index.htm >The first, I have 3 yards of, and it is 54 inches wide. It is a silk brocade. I >was thinking about making something like a pet-en-l'air, (French Jacket) as >found on page 30 of Arnolds Pattern's of Fashion 1. S-G, If you do the 1880s it would make a charming jacket to a walking suit. The early 80s are particular prone to earth tones like this. >The second may be harder. It is tapestry, also 54 inches wide. I have a > little over 2 yards. I love this fabric, but it is a little bright. The second >picture gives you the best sense of how bright it is. It is 'reversible,' but I > am not sure I like the "wrong" side enough to not line it. But I have no idea >what it is appropriate for. Oooh, I'd redo the upholstery on my dining room chairs, except that I just did that last summer. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 08:45:01 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HCj1gv001594 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 08:45:01 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HCil2q016165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 08:44:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HChxak074936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 06:43:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HChwd8013845; Thu, 17 May 2007 06:43:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from webmail02.unl.edu (webmail02.unl.edu [129.93.1.48]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H3CZfY008997 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 21:12:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from 00217146@bigred.unl.edu) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by webmail02.unl.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) id l4H3CXT00861 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 May 2007 22:12:33 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] weirdish terminology question Message-ID: <1179371553.464bc821cb19d@webmail02.unl.edu> Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 22:12:33 -0500 (CDT) From: 00217146@bigred.unl.edu References: <02ba01c797f0$98c0b5e0$dd00a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <02ba01c797f0$98c0b5e0$dd00a8c0@compaqub> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.6 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 3239557e-dec4-4c3c-852c-9d6f0c247bb6 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 464C4E3F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 08:44:50 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > Can anyone help me think of properly spellt English (sticking with that > for now) costume terms from say, 1100-1650, that seem likely to result > in wardrobe accounts, inventories, wills, etc? I would recommend looking in the OED for old versions of modern words. For example, Velvet: 1320, veluett; 1351, velvet; 1400, felvet; 1483, feluett; 1538, veluettys (pluerel); 1555, veluet. Added bonus: it references the source, which is in several cases a wardrobe account. Emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 08:46:07 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HCk7bq001632 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 08:46:07 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HCjru5016493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 08:45:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HCjRFx075234 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 06:45:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HCjRkS015229; Thu, 17 May 2007 06:45:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HB1c4l054835 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 05:01:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A4358BC055A; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:53:41 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-openingstyle purse Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 04:01:32 -0700 Message-ID: <000401c79872$ba8e7360$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <200705170929.l4H9TcbQ002651@net.indra.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 919f8a6e-868e-4802-8cdf-ab4462c25807 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 464C4E81.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 08:45:56 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I will ask my ren faire folks. I know a woman who has one. I'll ask where she got it. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 2:26 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-openingstyle purse Hi Bjarne, Thanks. They aren't quite what I'm looking for. I have seen people walking around events wearing the type of purse I'm looking for so I know that someone has made them, I'm just not sure who. Cheers, Danielle At 03:14 AM 5/17/2007, you wrote: >Hi Danielle, >I dont think you will find a replica 15th century one, but you can >get different styles today: >http://www.countrybumpkin.com.au/index.php?cPath=23_163 >These are Australian, but i am sure others carries them two. > >Bjarne >----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" > >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:15 AM >Subject: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-opening style purse > > >>Greetings, >> >>I'm looking for a 15th century replica frame-opening style >>purse. It has a metal circular opening (with a hinged lid) that >>the leather pouch hangs from, in case you don't know what I mean by >>"frame". I'm not sure what the actual name of that type of purse >>would be. Does anyone know where I can purchase such an item? I >>have yet to turn up a merchant who sells them. Any help would be appreciated. >> >>Cheers, >>Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 08:46:36 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HCkZK3001656 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 08:46:35 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HCkL1P016905 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 08:46:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HCjkCY075300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 06:45:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HCjjqh015480; Thu, 17 May 2007 06:45:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s2.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s2.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.74]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HBbPA3074452 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 05:37:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robinandkellydorman@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.162.38]) by bay0-omc1-s2.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Thu, 17 May 2007 04:37:20 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 17 May 2007 04:37:20 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.162.200 by by108fd.bay108.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:37:18 GMT X-Originating-IP: [69.217.48.39] X-Originating-Email: [robinandkellydorman@hotmail.com] X-Sender: robinandkellydorman@hotmail.com From: "RobinandKelly Dorman" To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 07:37:18 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 May 2007 11:37:20.0328 (UTC) FILETIME=[BAA56480:01C79877] X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Subject: [h-cost] split drawers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 39b95dba-12ed-48f1-9378-f20f687c8e43 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464C4E9D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 08:46:24 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO >Now, I'm not a 19th century geek, but I find myself with a question about >those split drawers (truly, just odd timing ...I went to a play this >weekend that had midwestern-US-cancan-dancers in it, and for some reason, I >was wondering if that "flip the skirts up over one's head and wiggle one's >backside move, or the high kicks, originally offered more of a *koff* view >than we'd think). When did it become common practice for the split to be >sewn up? >-Sue My understanding is that the split drawers and the resulting view is why the cancan was considered quite scandalous. Split drawers were an option into the Edwardian period; based on my experience, they work well when wearing a lengthy Edwardian corset, but other options also existed. Kelly Backward Glances www.backwardglances.net _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage—get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 08:46:50 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HCkooR001671 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 08:46:50 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HCkZCO000349 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 08:46:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HCkDgB075381 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 06:46:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HCkDlK015863; Thu, 17 May 2007 06:46:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.140]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4HC6ecG090897 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 06:06:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 9067 invoked from network); 17 May 2007 12:06:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@71.182.167.18 with login) by smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2007 12:06:35 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: XPJ55UUVM1m9uAtzU_uv3RF17uv22iRPxJsg.C.AtWWj7HnNjvLsFsZgrOY18an6oCOUg7Cr8J7JvE283yVESgtNAl8- Message-ID: <003b01c7987b$d20c0170$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20070516.153549.128.1.LLWatts@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] book review wanted: Shaker Textile Arts Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 08:06:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 3a0446d1-fc2c-4b81-9a48-179721719757 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 464C4EAC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 08:46:39 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO there are also expanded brochures out there (booklets) that tend to be sold at sites like Old Economy (Pa) Enfield and Canterbury NH. They are somewhat sparse (what else?) but give the basics. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leah L Watts" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 4:35 PM Subject: [h-cost] book review wanted: Shaker Textile Arts > I'm looking for information on Shaker clothing, ideally around the time > of the Great Awakening (1800-1830). I was searching Amazon and found the > book Shaker Textile Arts, by Beverly Gordon. It looks like it will have > the information I need, but it's also $30 -- does anyone have this book? > Is it worth the money? > > Leah > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 08:52:03 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HCq34G001927 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 08:52:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HCpmB9001708 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 08:51:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HCpNX8075928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 06:51:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HCpLVb019045; Thu, 17 May 2007 06:51:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep32.mail.dk (fep32.mail.dk [80.160.76.196]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HCpItI018950 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 06:51:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep48.mail.dk ([195.41.46.231]) by fep32.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070517125112.QRWK5600.fep32.mail.dk@fep48.mail.dk> for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 14:51:12 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.238]) by fep48.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070517125112.HVHV1370.fep48.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 14:51:12 +0200 Message-ID: <000e01c79882$1002fc30$ee43a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7.0.1.0.2.20070515175407.024cee40@suziclarke.co.uk> <003d01c797c1$044595e0$abbfa6d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert? Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 14:51:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep48.mail.dk from [80.161.67.238] at Thu, 17 May 2007 14:51:07 +0200 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=22% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8c9b232d-1608-4fe8-a202-bb5b5cb9b401 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 464C4FE4.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 08:51:52 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Just a little note, when talking about split drawers. When i went to the exhibition about the elegant courtlife in the time of Frederik V, there was in the catalogue pictures of the queens midges clothes. Its a whole outfit, chemise- split drawers,stays, petticoat with hip pads, skirt and a Brunswick overdress with hood. Its 1770ies, and i thoaght they didnt wear underdrawers? Now Denmark had a cold climate during the winter season, perhaps it was a nescesity for the ladies two? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert? > That's a very cool website, although I find the graphics a little > distracting. Thanks for the link! > Now, I'm not a 19th century geek, but I find myself with a question about > those split drawers (truly, just odd timing ...I went to a play this > weekend that had midwestern-US-cancan-dancers in it, and for some reason, > I > was wondering if that "flip the skirts up over one's head and wiggle one's > backside move, or the high kicks, originally offered more of a *koff* view > than we'd think). When did it become common practice for the split to be > sewn up? > --Sue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Suzi Clarke" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 10:55 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert? > > > >> The lady in question is Elizabeth Stewart Clark. >> http://www.elizabethstewartclark.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 09:16:02 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HDG16k002949 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:16:01 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HDFlmB009256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 09:15:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HDEZ1B078154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 07:14:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HDEW2d033753; Thu, 17 May 2007 07:14:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net (ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net [166.102.165.170]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HDETgB033659 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 07:14:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net ([162.40.179.27]) by ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20070517131423.NFIK12189.ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net@ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net> for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 08:14:23 -0500 Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.27]) by ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20070517131422.KFI5115.ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 08:14:22 -0500 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 08:14:03 -0500 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: [h-cost] Re: Perpignan cloth In-Reply-To: <200705171251.l4HCpP0g019095@net.indra.com> References: <200705171251.l4HCpP0g019095@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <20070517131422.KFI5115.ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=35% X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2556fef7-3d65-46f7-a6f4-7502a206986c X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 464C5583.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 09:15:51 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi Kathy Cardon's book is excellent (makes me wish that I=20 was fluent in French!) and covers an region of=20 Europe that I have been having trouble finding=20 info on. It is a very thick (661 pages) paperback=20 with 21 references to Perpignan in the Index des=20 noms de lieux and one " perpagnani" in the Index=20 des termes techniques.. pg 514. I ordered my copy from Amazon-fr. BTW. Perpignan was not part of France at the time we are discussing.... Beth At 07:51 AM 5/17/2007, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 22:35:44 -0700 (PDT) >From: Kathy Page >Subject: [h-cost] Re: Perpignan cloth > >Hi Beth, > >Ahhhh... you've just saved me a bunch of=20 >headaches and time consumption. I am stronger in=20 >French than I am in Italian! So the reference=20 >only occurs in text outside of direct cloth manufacture, hmm. That's= annoying. >Gar. This French book only shows up in a couple=20 >of libraries around here, all of which charge=20 >for the ILL. hmm.. unless I convince a local to=20 >U of T to snag it for me and make a copy. My=20 >husband is fully bilingual, I can bribe him to=20 >at least look up the indexes for me and see if the references are any good. >Darn! And I was hoping to solve my issues with something easy! > >Gee... I wonder if contacting a museum in=20 >Perpignan might prove fruitful? I wonder if they=20 >have something like that. *goes googling* >Aha. I think I may have something. The village=20 >indeed does have museums (these are the=20 >divisions most likely to have information useful to us): > > > Mus=E9e > des Beaux-Arts Hyacinthe Rigaud > > 16, rue de l'Ange > > 66000 PERPIGNAN > > T=E9l : 04 68 35 81 23 > > M=E9l : Musee-rigaud@mairie-perpignan.com > > Peinture > > Mus=E9e > du Castillet Casa Pairal > > Place de Verdun > > 66000 PERPIGNAN > > T=E9l : 04 68 35 42 05 > > Arts et traditions populaires > > > Mus=E9e > arch=E9ologique de Ruscino > > (en cours de cr=E9ation) > > Centre Arch=E9ologique de Ruscino > > Ch=E2teau Roussillon > > 66000 PERPIGNAN > > T=E9l : 04 68 67 47 17 > > Site arch=E9ologique > > >I'll have to wait until hub is awake and in a=20 >mood to be coerced into helping me to brew up a=20 >contact email. We can hope they know what we are=20 >talking about, or at least something that helps=20 >clear up just what this stuff really is. > > >Onto a new adventure... > >Kathy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 09:20:43 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HDKhcA003115 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:20:43 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HDKSOJ027555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 09:20:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HDJwi4078804 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 07:19:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HDJvnG037245; Thu, 17 May 2007 07:19:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HDJqLT037157 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 07:19:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.d39.958751f (30737) for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:19:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:19:41 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 6, Issue 239 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 181ae698-f51e-4806-ad47-c1c378b9f0db X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 464C569C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 09:20:32 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Some women in continental europe did wear pants - pepys mentions somewhere in his huge diary that his wife was wearing knickers in the 1660s, but puts it down to her being french. split knickers were definitely still around in edwardian times - they really started to disappear as skirts started to shorten (they were no longer practical), but they'd have been around (I suspect) as slong as there were ladies of a certain age still dressing in edwardian / victorian clothing (some women still did right into the 40s and 50s, though of course it got rarer as time went on - part of the whole thing about people dressing largely as they did when they were young). d In a message dated 17/05/2007 13:52:40 GMT Standard Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: Just a little note, when talking about split drawers. When i went to the exhibition about the elegant courtlife in the time of Frederik V, there was in the catalogue pictures of the queens midges clothes. Its a whole outfit, chemise- split drawers,stays, petticoat with hip pads, skirt and a Brunswick overdress with hood. Its 1770ies, and i thoaght they didnt wear underdrawers? Now Denmark had a cold climate during the winter season, perhaps it was a nescesity for the ladies two? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 09:40:47 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HDelwl003665 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:40:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HDeX3S023289 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 09:40:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HDdZXg081430 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 07:39:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HDdWOP051247; Thu, 17 May 2007 07:39:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HDdTTl051184 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 07:39:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m130.in-tch.com [216.166.191.130]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id l4HDOnB11424 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 07:24:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <003801c7988a$179b21e0$82bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7.0.1.0.2.20070515175407.024cee40@suziclarke.co.uk><003d01c797c1$044595e0$abbfa6d8@pavilion> <000e01c79882$1002fc30$ee43a150@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert? Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 07:48:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 46a32786-746f-4a26-bf69-f29bcb5b77f3 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464C5B51.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 09:40:37 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Dunno about the 18th century, but there are rare surviving examples of them from the 16th century. I suspect that it was something that came and went, as a style. --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 6:51 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert? > Just a little note, when talking about split drawers. > When i went to the exhibition about the elegant courtlife in the time of > Frederik V, there was in the catalogue pictures of the queens midges > clothes. Its a whole outfit, chemise- split drawers,stays, petticoat with > hip pads, skirt and a Brunswick overdress with hood. Its 1770ies, and i > thoaght they didnt wear underdrawers? > Now Denmark had a cold climate during the winter season, perhaps it was a > nescesity for the ladies two? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 09:59:03 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HDx3SK004124 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:59:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HDwnt6004630 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 09:58:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HCgMcr074353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 06:42:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HCgLsQ012070; Thu, 17 May 2007 06:42:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cgp.netins.net (f1phy.netins.net [167.142.228.65]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4GEGk8u079469 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 08:16:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from landofoz@netins.net) X-netINS-MPP: scanned Received: from [67.55.167.82] (account landofoz@netins.net HELO denise8541f2db) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.13) with ESMTPA id 1335214126 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 16 May 2007 09:16:45 -0500 Message-ID: <00c401c797c4$d5755850$52a73743@denise8541f2db> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: <318546.1522.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Perpignan cloth Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 09:16:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: db7d5098-e726-4948-bdc8-d15d5ac0bb5d X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464C5F99.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 09:58:52 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO >>>>>> I have just been flipping through Dressing Renaissance Florence, and they mention "hosiery itself was made of perpignan cloth (perpignano), a washable and stretchy woolen jersey fabric, originally developed by weavers in Perpignan, France." Has anyone ever heard of this stuff before, and if so, what is its' weave structure? What would it be close to in modern terms? This answers a lot of questions why Italian men's hose are so smooth and tight looking. If I can find a reasonable equivalent, it will make my job MUCH easier on this commission that I have been stalled on for so long. <<<<<<<<< I thought "jersey" was by definition a knit or looped fabric? I could see developing a strechy fabric using over twisted wool or some other technique, but I think if it's woven, it's not jersey. Denise B Iowa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 09:59:12 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HDxBsj004144 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:59:11 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HDwv7g007284 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 09:59:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HCgbvL074397 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 06:42:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HCgalA012248; Thu, 17 May 2007 06:42:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.229]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4H0p3wH024251 for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 18:51:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id m7so799447nzf for ; Wed, 16 May 2007 17:51:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=O8rsPd7tresPVQxjCW+n5uAtZsEMV2n+2mu1bmKYoEMrWYb02awNAegE4gqhJ1VK/uxS55manxR1pOP4kEoxs7EGABdHJeJKojhPQUqXRI72uSt5pMlF7TmIX43ecshrvzQZf7KJT/bv7O/M6yfRtgWPmG2NHtMqAPGTx88XJqw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=jmkodzWqDERubNphZKP5ks5IjYov+1qLqoGDOp0Svq6vgy89FeFc4U3OnqZMmavUww/afwTg8TgOgWu5hTBiWOpnKWfMjO6o7Ly74W5gpkiMGuJCohvywvu0Gp/mQYoBrLn38b9CMMZl9WDdRWtjbm38no7vvEON0gcUgs799HU= Received: by 10.114.174.2 with SMTP id w2mr2072251wae.1179363063123; Wed, 16 May 2007 17:51:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.131.18 with HTTP; Wed, 16 May 2007 17:51:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 17:51:03 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] How the bertha got it's name X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2d265fca-d91d-4052-9e24-dc16d424a193 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 464C5FA1.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 09:59:01 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO 19th c h-costumers, Do you have any idea where the term "bertha" came from? My guess is it's from a character in a play, ballet or opera who was wearing the new fashion item. That's a common enough reason for an item with a woman's name. Its also the name Emma Bovary gives her daughter when she hears the name at the ball. Not sure if it's significant or not. Perhaps life imitated art and the new item got named for a character in a popular novel. We're just speculating. Do you have an answer? --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 09:59:13 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HDxBsl004144 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:59:12 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HDwv7i007284 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 09:59:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HCk6ou075369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 06:46:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HCk3vQ015720; Thu, 17 May 2007 06:46:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.140]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4HC6dgL090881 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 06:06:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 9041 invoked from network); 17 May 2007 12:06:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@71.182.167.18 with login) by smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2007 12:06:34 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ma.j6zQVM1nOd.IMo1eLPbWV404FGpJD.utfaUe1MRgbA_b_loSxY4LlU0YwDv1aoTZPe3UsZ2uSSjAM7mICzxUY737RIIbeQaGJWcgXii_tesBq96VO Message-ID: <003501c7987b$cab90170$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200705170719.l4H7JikL035096@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-opening style purse Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 07:56:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f4643c43-8ddb-4b2c-a1cf-67db32ae4904 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 464C5FA1.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 09:59:02 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO you might try Lacis or Baglady.com Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 3:15 AM Subject: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-opening style purse > Greetings, > > I'm looking for a 15th century replica frame-opening style purse. It has > a metal circular opening (with a hinged lid) that the leather pouch hangs > from, in case you don't know what I mean by "frame". I'm not sure what > the actual name of that type of purse would be. Does anyone know where I > can purchase such an item? I have yet to turn up a merchant who sells > them. Any help would be appreciated. > > Cheers, > Danielle > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 10:45:08 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HEj8Pi005487 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:45:08 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HEirOV013020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 10:44:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HEb7b0089851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 08:37:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HEb2FT000592; Thu, 17 May 2007 08:37:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HEawER000548 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 08:37:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [65.97.2.249] (helo=momlaptop) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp8S-1Hoh691pkS-0002xC; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:36:58 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c79890$c518fc10$6801a8c0@momlaptop> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 6, Issue 239 Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:36:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/rl2dioKoStgy58X5OzH3G9gSU3+vJR8Wgiwi Fu+TVkB1eF2pPvuL68XEPDSfHDZpUa69cxOz3DbocUfqgR4Dtk dTE/ipXKbV9JcTmGcVnDg== X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=21% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7be1647b-5f60-4322-909c-043d13469a53 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 464C6A66.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 10:44:57 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO If I remember correctly these drawers in the mid-20th Century were called petti-pants. I remember my mother had some in the early 1960s. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 11:19:52 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HFJpIK007044 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:19:51 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HFJZi8002392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 11:19:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HFHYj6095441 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 09:17:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HFHTbq037002; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:17:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web81115.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81115.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.47]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4HFHM4m036780 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:17:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynnroth@sbcglobal.net) Received: (qmail 91173 invoked by uid 60001); 17 May 2007 15:17:16 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=y5bb8VEJZcjPZ7pSdVBU2GlgQ9qGBqxWMYQjAEzF9WLaMgeaN1pyV52swEj4w8hlTYeIhagJtmK8v5Ui7TySxziFdhTqNtrkQuHBR+NZeEtpIE4oCrh6NzDYdr89aBL5dQsXt+ilg1ZR/tZzTTDTcX2yPAo1sZd0VMoP++3aivQ=; X-YMail-OSG: fr3w.EsVM1nXBWBd0zsksLDu90QdrxqSmpHL0d1npuw_BAejtmVIrsvPthVs_RploictC8Ks42iRAHVr1Y66TJ2UU.Fi6YJ03OlhR.3uVZML6dS7gyc- Received: from [69.37.27.227] by web81115.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 May 2007 08:17:16 PDT Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 08:17:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Roth Subject: Re: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <003801c7988a$179b21e0$82bfa6d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <936572.90354.qm@web81115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7a2abc4b-f957-46ca-a56b-dd8a01b15572 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464C7287.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 11:19:41 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I'm neew to this list and have enjoyed learning a lot of different things. I do recreating the 1500's. I didn't realize that they had split drawers in the 16th cen. Do you have any historical evidence that they had them in the nobility class in the midto late 1500's, and what they were made of? I would appreciate any information. Lynn Sue Clemenger wrote: Dunno about the 18th century, but there are rare surviving examples of them from the 16th century. I suspect that it was something that came and went, as a style. --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 6:51 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert? > Just a little note, when talking about split drawers. > When i went to the exhibition about the elegant courtlife in the time of > Frederik V, there was in the catalogue pictures of the queens midges > clothes. Its a whole outfit, chemise- split drawers,stays, petticoat with > hip pads, skirt and a Brunswick overdress with hood. Its 1770ies, and i > thoaght they didnt wear underdrawers? > Now Denmark had a cold climate during the winter season, perhaps it was a > nescesity for the ladies two? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 11:38:59 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HFcxMS008397 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:38:59 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HFciYX000414 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 11:38:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HFc5Za098243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 09:38:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HFc2S1057777; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:38:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from barra1.swissinfo.org (barra1.swissinfo.org [146.159.6.75]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HFbvNI057638 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:37:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from swissgirl@swissinfo.org) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1179416261-1a9600010003-L6CAXr X-Barracuda-URL: http://146.159.6.75:8000/cgi-bin/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Connect: kuma.sri.ch[194.6.181.33] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1179416261 X-ASG-Whitelist: Sender Received: from mail.swissinfo.org (kuma.sri.ch [194.6.181.33]) by barra1.swissinfo.org (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id 7DAB3964DA for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 17:37:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from compaqub (24.216.120.37) by mail.swissinfo.org (7.2.064.1) (authenticated as swissgirl) id 45DAE0BC0392E79E for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 May 2007 17:37:47 +0200 Message-ID: <02fd01c79899$61c7c9d0$dd00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000401c79872$ba8e7360$0200a8c0@bob3pc> X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-openingstyle purse Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-openingstyle purse Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:37:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Barracuda-Virus-Scanned: by Barracuda Spam Firewall at swissinfo.org X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a954f994-490f-4e33-a982-77c7d3f20df3 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 464C7704.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 11:38:48 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Lacis has a very large range of them: http://www.lacis.com/catalog/data/ls58.html -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 12:20:24 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HGKNT6009802 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:20:23 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HGK8po028159 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 12:20:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HGJ0wV004801 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 10:19:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HGIqpn000977; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:18:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4HGIkJh000731 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:18:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABDE3ABNADTFG7A for (sender ); Thu, 17 May 2007 09:17:48 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgqxsK5udNaPu5RLauYSXNn4= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id MMX4CLM7; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:17:44 PDT To: antir-costumers@antir.sca.org Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:17:01 -0700 Message-ID: <20070517.091703.120.4.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-69 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 26:13:3734162595 X-MAIL-INFO: 1cc8c8dc61484861686988c1c1f13cf55ca8f1bc1885add835a8d1f5d9a19dd8dd6c2898f8dcd948d8c9b1d89871 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=1% Cc: steps@antir.sca.org, h-costume@indra.com, dm_list@shadowgard.com, antir-laurels@antir.sca.org, lherr@rightwaybusiness.com, comeronfamily3@juno.com, d.boss@comcast.net, poni.scofield@gmail.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: new costume and textile books from DBBC X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: e260b7a9-ba93-4e57-aa9b-2f21708da359 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 464C80B8.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 12:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Don't shoot the messenger! blame it on Ian at David Brown Book Company! ;) Arlys > A quick note to let you know that two long-awaited books have now > arrived here for sale, as well as to tell you about a few other new > arrivals from unusual sources... > > Firstly, the reprint of the visually stunning "Moda a Firenze > 1540-1580" has arrived from Italy. We managed to secure a reasonably > good number of copies, but there's no guarantee that we will get > more once these are sold. Act soon if you want one! > > Secondly, Penny Rogers' "Cloth and Clothing in Early Anglo-Saxon > England" arrived yesterday to cheers and whoops of delight in the > office. Many of you have already ordered this and we are shipping > these orders over the next few days, but if you haven't yet done so, > now's the time! > > Thirdly, hot off the packet steamer from Norway is the mammoth book > on the textile finds from the Oseberg ship excavation. We had to > fork out many Norwegian Kronas for this one just so that you > wouldn't have to. A pricey, but significant book for the diehards. > > Finally, we received a fascinating-looking two-volume work from > Denmark. "Kriegskunst und Kanonen" presents Joannes Bengedans' > handbook (from around 1450) for the manufacture of explosives, > techniques for the use of cannons and siege tactics. The volumes > include a beautiful facsimile of the manuscript (which is in a > Copenhagen University collection) and gives a translation into > modern German and Danish of the text. It's a really stunning set and > remarkably reasonably priced. > > Links to all four books are given below. I hope you will find them > interesting. > > With regards, > > Ian Stevens > The David Brown Book Company > Tel: 1-800-791-9354 > > Links to these three books are given below. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > 'Moda a Firenze 1540-1580: Lo Stile di Eleonora di Toledo e la sua > influenza' - by Roberta Orsi Landini and Bruna Niccoli > List Price: US$ 99.50 * Our Price: US$ 90.00 * > Link: http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm?ID=48785&MID=12830 > > 'Cloth and Clothing in Early Anglo Saxon England, AD 450-700' - by > Penelope Rogers > List Price: US$ 39.95 * Our Price: US$ 32.00 * > Link: http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm?ID=60262&MID=12830 > > 'Oseberg Textiles - Osebergfundet: Bind IVb' - edited by Arne Emil > Christensen and Margarita Nockert > List Price: US$ 225.00 * Our Price: US$ 200.00 * > Link: http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm?ID=47636&MID=12830 > > 'Kriegskunst und Kanonen (Artillery and the Art of War): Das > Büchsenmeister- und Kriegsbuch des Johannes Bengedans' - edited by > Hans Blosen and Rikke Agnete Olsen, with contributions by Aage > Anderson, Bendt Falkesgaard Pedersen and Frede Storborg > List Price: US$ 83.95 * Our Price: US$ 70.00 * > Link: http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm?ID=62166&MID=12830 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 12:35:02 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HGZ2KA010319 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:35:02 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HGYmX3000763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 12:34:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HGXcpD007239 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 10:33:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HGXYNu016678; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:33:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.247]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4HGXTwS016506 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:33:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 48564 invoked by uid 60001); 17 May 2007 16:33:23 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=vaiQRh6X6EvDg7+I3qqJigMqtca8kARRhd5ptEGWyUkB1wYQn8kAp7CqEyChCJQmHu7Mfrzc1Hel94os9bsVtZ4dEDUOoBwoKJhKbI304UZY7TXSSCdul6AzBv36yNyYwEkog/WQRX7tm8K383pZDS7cXBSJZfxVI7CXjJXMpNE=; X-YMail-OSG: _9v1inAVM1nL0NEDGhruzSpX5K1QWRm8dLy792awyAj2w_sENv.gCSPN8kVVivOSnQdyg8BkOwvZD4ckJBz6ehGXZb9.0YP.rSpMgt54qUdnK2RytYk- Received: from [208.179.44.218] by web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:33:23 PDT Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:33:23 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-opening style purse To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <003801c7987b$d191c860$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <619470.48373.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=15% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f0d9be0a-4522-454d-a02b-dc0ed75e682b X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 464C8428.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 12:34:51 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I think everyone's looking at frame as a generic type that has never changed. That's not so. Most German Ren purses are suspended from a single point in the middle, not from a chain anchored at two points. Not all, obviously, since the one at the bottom of this page clearly has two anchor points for a chair. But that's not the style one commonly sees in the woodcuts. What's being asked for is (or should be)something like this http://www.curiousfrau.com/Art_Research/pouches.htm I don't know anyone who makes them, although something similar can be built on with a plain ring. MaggiRos > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" > > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 3:15 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica > frame-opening style purse > > > > Greetings, > > > > I'm looking for a 15th century replica > frame-opening style purse. It has > > a metal circular opening (with a hinged lid) that > the leather pouch hangs > > from, in case you don't know what I mean by > "frame". I'm not sure what > > the actual name of that type of purse would be. > Does anyone know where I > > can purchase such an item? I have yet to turn up > a merchant who sells > > them. Any help would be appreciated. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 12:36:27 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HGaQ8D010383 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:36:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HGaCjh015392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 12:36:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HGZjY4007916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 10:35:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HGZgi4019201; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:35:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HGZZ1i019023 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:35:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14248 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:36:41 -0500 Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 11:36:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: new costume and textile books from DBBC In-Reply-To: <20070517.091703.120.4.Cley@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9a0c42ce-4101-47d5-8d5a-72cbdb007e5f X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 464C847C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 12:36:16 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Thu, 17 May 2007, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > Don't shoot the messenger! blame it on Ian at David Brown Book Company! Whom I saw last week at K'zoo. I'm surprised the textiles/dress people left him anything of these still to sell. (For those of you who wonder, Ian is British, charming, and attractive in that self-effacing Hugh Grant sort of way. Think "Notting Hill.") --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 12:39:01 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HGd1Et010501 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:39:01 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HGclCM023973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 12:38:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HGcH1k008446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 10:38:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HGc5uP021825; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:38:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.249]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4HGbwfM021604 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:38:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 34849 invoked by uid 60001); 17 May 2007 16:37:53 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=k1NqXXz77+G2DBUegUiSbvvrtBBHtDCgOJVW1Va752T64MqL6INN6Vgzt3jNk5AQPDQhaD2BxEUy8JyaVdUiACtyD8phfsb1zB+Qv4QttrPuFzQcIkiVilSlK3WIx3EbZaZvq5KMtgkyGF/TEQaaQI7qgz2zMUmqgj86n3QNZgA=; X-YMail-OSG: hk30zmEVM1k4qM.dJiBfbImHknns_o..x68Y7IUveW0d.rrr4oZTMt8wMax89O4nUK7aLOiQy8qbiw8Y2FtYGp2ebLk5DZmOa.V9MqZ7h98PLMISNwJlFxjjE5W7mw-- Received: from [208.179.44.218] by web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 May 2007 09:37:53 PDT Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:37:53 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-opening style purse To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200705170719.l4H7JikL035096@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <213162.34834.qm@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: abb6c3db-7f1a-47fe-b70f-48726e9dd09e X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 464C8517.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 12:38:50 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Is this what you're looking for, but with a "lid"? http://www.answers.com/topic/thomas-howard-4th-duke-of-norfolk-02-jpg I call mine a "ring pouch" but I have no idea what it's right name is. MaggiRos --- Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > Greetings, > > I'm looking for a 15th century replica frame-opening > style purse. It > has a metal circular opening (with a hinged lid) > that the leather > pouch hangs from, in case you don't know what I mean > by "frame". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 12:45:17 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HGjHbc010709 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:45:17 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HGj2Bc009204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 12:45:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HGiV9G009713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 10:44:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HGiTrG028771; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:44:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kline-station.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HGiILu028509 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:44:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline-station.thibault.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4HGiLja030926 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:44:21 -0400 Received: from [192.168.10.250] (192.168.10.250 [192.168.10.250]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:44:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <464C865C.6060907@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 12:44:12 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-opening style purse References: <619470.48373.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <619470.48373.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c3d96db9-7694-44e4-856a-8e1ad6ab6082 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 464C868E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 12:45:06 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO MaggiRos wrote: > What's being asked for is (or should be)something like > this > http://www.curiousfrau.com/Art_Research/pouches.htm > > I don't know anyone who makes them, although something > similar can be built on with a plain ring. > What a useful page -- thank you! Here are the two that are in Boucher: http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/1400s_real_purses.jpg CV ------ Vandeverre's Emporium: for a subset of your Second Life costume needs! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 12:57:19 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HGvJDg011175 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:57:19 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HGv5ol008221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 12:57:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HGuWdr011639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 10:56:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HGuSfj040960; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:56:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.26] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HGuK2s040733 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:56:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) X-SBRS: 4.7 X-RemoteIP: 212.74.114.12 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Aq4HAMIlTEbUSnIMk2dsb2JhbACMIoFpggMBAQEBBwYIBwUf Received: from [80.47.164.20] (port=2131 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-relay-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.66 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hoj6y-000GK1-SB for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 May 2007 17:45:57 +0100 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20070517174304.025056a8@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 17:45:53 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-opening style purse In-Reply-To: <619470.48373.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <003801c7987b$d191c860$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> <619470.48373.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Antivirus-Scanner: Scanned with ClamAV X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4034f951-b338-463e-9820-7f54d07da19f X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 464C8961.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 12:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At 17:33 17/05/2007, you wrote: >I think everyone's looking at frame as a generic type >that has never changed. That's not so. Most German Ren >purses are suspended from a single point in the >middle, not from a chain anchored at two points. Not >all, obviously, since the one at the bottom of this >page clearly has two anchor points for a chair. But >that's not the style one commonly sees in the >woodcuts. > >What's being asked for is (or should be)something like >this >http://www.curiousfrau.com/Art_Research/pouches.htm > >I don't know anyone who makes them, although something >similar can be built on with a plain ring. I had one made for a customer in brass, a copy of one in the Museum of London. (I still have it, as he has not collected it.) If anyone wants photos, I examined a couple of dozen while doing research - I can scan them if I have e-mail addresses - they are almost all "skeletons" although they did have one with a velvet bag. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 13:01:39 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HH1dQB011308 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 13:01:39 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HH1PZe009836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 13:01:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HH0rZf012433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 11:00:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HH0neo045933; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:00:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s18.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s18.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.90]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HH0iZV045718 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:00:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.11]) by bay0-omc1-s18.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Thu, 17 May 2007 10:00:39 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:00:39 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 209.180.136.218 by BAY133-DAV1.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 17 May 2007 17:00:36 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [209.180.136.218] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200705170719.l4H7JikL035096@net.indra.com><003001c7985b$70c8c440$7914a150@CPQ21932199711> <200705170929.l4H9TcbQ002651@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-openingstyle purse Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:00:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:00:19 -0700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 May 2007 17:00:39.0171 (UTC) FILETIME=[E541ED30:01C798A4] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 44833fef-6e37-47c7-88e1-5e14ff1e9d42 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 464C8A65.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 13:01:28 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO If you can't find what you want commercially, I highly recommend this = fellow. http://www.hr-replikate.de/englisch/index.html He does wonderful work, and is reasonable. =20 Saragrace ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg=20 To: Historical Costume=20 Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 2:25 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica = frame-openingstyle purse Hi Bjarne, Thanks. They aren't quite what I'm looking for. I have seen people=20 walking around events wearing the type of purse I'm looking for so I=20 know that someone has made them, I'm just not sure who. Cheers, Danielle At 03:14 AM 5/17/2007, you wrote: >Hi Danielle, >I dont think you will find a replica 15th century one, but you can=20 >get different styles today: >http://www.countrybumpkin.com.au/index.php?cPath=3D23_163 >These are Australian, but i am sure others carries them two. > >Bjarne >----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg"=20 >> >To: "Historical Costume" = > >Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:15 AM >Subject: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-opening = style purse > > >>Greetings, >> >>I'm looking for a 15th century replica frame-opening style=20 >>purse. It has a metal circular opening (with a hinged lid) that=20 >>the leather pouch hangs from, in case you don't know what I mean by=20 >>"frame". I'm not sure what the actual name of that type of purse=20 >>would be. Does anyone know where I can purchase such an item? I=20 >>have yet to turn up a merchant who sells them. Any help would be = appreciated. >> >>Cheers, >>Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com = http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 13:28:20 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HHSKr2012397 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 13:28:20 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HHS4Bh007181 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 13:28:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HHRSnc016742 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 11:27:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HHRNxV074717; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:27:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s14.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s14.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.86]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HHRHT1074538 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:27:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.27]) by bay0-omc1-s14.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Thu, 17 May 2007 10:27:12 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:27:12 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 209.180.136.218 by BAY133-DAV17.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 17 May 2007 17:27:11 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [209.180.136.218] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200705170132.l4H1WVgt047947@net.indra.com> <464BC6EB.5030308@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] measurement chart site? Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:26:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:26:53 -0700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 May 2007 17:27:12.0335 (UTC) FILETIME=[9ADB75F0:01C798A8] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8632dfe2-c70c-4a04-85b0-70105f62b5a7 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464C90A4.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 13:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO You'd think this would be easy no? You might end up having get one out = of a sewing book. Even my pattern drafting book doesn't have a neat = little chart. http://www.twinrosesdesigns.com/Full_Body_Measurements_w_text_Bristol.jpg= https://secure.aeonflux.net/spandexwear/spandex-order.htm (the picture on the home = page for this one is down right scary) http://www.tutu.com/meascht_womens_chartemail.html http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/infomgt/forms/eforms/dd1111.pdf (There is = also one for men) I just googled body measure chart blank=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net=20 To: h-costume@indra.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 8:07 PM Subject: [h-cost] measurement chart site? Can an body recommend a website where I can find a form of some kind=20 that shows all the various body measurements you'd need to take of a=20 person if you were going to make clothing or garb for them? I know the = standard ones (bust, waist, etc.) but I'd really like to find a = detailed=20 chart that I can use. Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com = http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 14:09:15 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HI9FP7013949 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 14:09:15 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HI91lg001785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 14:09:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HI8O5e023069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 12:08:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HI8KTG016501; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:08:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.115]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HI8FVx016343 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:08:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Kiloran@worldnet.att.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (h-64-105-26-60.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net[64.105.26.60]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with ESMTP id <2007051718081011100e1baue>; Thu, 17 May 2007 18:08:10 +0000 Message-ID: <464C9A0E.3010207@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 11:08:14 -0700 From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] measurement chart site? References: <200705171800.l4HI0BGw008155@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200705171800.l4HI0BGw008155@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 37af1887-1a05-460a-8f56-edf643f04bf3 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 464C9A3D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 14:09:05 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Wow! Thanks for those sites! I guess I was googling the wrong combination of words. And you're right, that one picture gave me the creeps! Julie > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:26:53 -0700 > From: "Saragrace Knauf" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] measurement chart site? > To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > You'd think this would be easy no? You might end up having get one out of a sewing book. Even my pattern drafting book doesn't have a neat little chart. > > http://www.twinrosesdesigns.com/Full_Body_Measurements_w_text_Bristol.jpg > https://secure.aeonflux.net/spandexwear/spandex-order.htm (the picture on the home page for this one is down right scary) > http://www.tutu.com/meascht_womens_chartemail.html > > http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/infomgt/forms/eforms/dd1111.pdf (There is also one for men) > > I just googled body measure chart blank > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net > To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 8:07 PM > Subject: [h-cost] measurement chart site? > > > Can an body recommend a website where I can find a form of some kind > that shows all the various body measurements you'd need to take of a > person if you were going to make clothing or garb for them? I know the > standard ones (bust, waist, etc.) but I'd really like to find a detailed > chart that I can use. > Julie > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 14:22:38 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HIMcY1014533 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 14:22:38 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HIMORL024944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 14:22:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HILtHY025003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 12:21:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HILqbm029257; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:21:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.48.104]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4HILkEt029079 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:21:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 20709 invoked by uid 60001); 17 May 2007 18:21:41 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=bz77QXZmp50jsvpyZyY7YQ2GEfwXor17jRCE4c8msJOC30UMssSmSJC4Ip5MOSdZ9pp7RW0g1NxVk7rOW3aKx7tdEObddRhUW3yWI22EElhbp/dz5npUjXoMKM1iFuro3NZ1qj6essg9OAUm/dNB1Ze+7ia4OhjqwcKyWue+s+I=; X-YMail-OSG: IxLBQh4VM1mLoeL2BvPryokQOGgr4sa1pmQE5tTJaYJ0fo7h4ZuEvw6VD.fbh5zW2KhkbPNqflB6Gb6lCWyXC5Vk3hQehkIn3li51BObawqrZvLL3K4uPT.zDK6DeA-- Received: from [74.114.43.209] by web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 May 2007 11:21:40 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.23 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.10 Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 11:21:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <94356.20684.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=20% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 6, Issue 240 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 274a98c1-dd83-4d45-88b6-3aea2f2bb3e2 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 464C9D60.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 14:22:28 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO There is a bit of a hair to split in these statements. =0A=0A"Split" is an = important word here. The 16th century Sicilian underwear are not split in t= he 19th century sense. They are fully attached at the crotch seam, not sepa= rate tubes attached at the waist. =0A=0AThe Met collection has been identif= ied microscopically as "most likely linen"; a bast fibre. =0A=0ASo far, Sic= ily seems to be more the anomaly in European cultures, underwear on women b= eing more acceptable amongst the "proper" females, as opposed to the prosti= tutes. In Italy, underwear were used for horseback riding, I would hazard o= ther cultures are similar - the notion of sticking to a leather seat seems = pretty universally unattractive. The Pepys quote also mentions that he disd= ained her using underwear, because to him it was a sign of unfaithfulness. = The other text quote by Fynes Morison is often taken out of context, the fu= ll quote actually explains who he is talking to - courtesans, during Festiv= al season. Gender bending was a common costume during that season.=0A=0AKat= hy=0A =0AErmine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder wi= th a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert=0A(Fieldless) On a ros= e Or barbed vert a lion's head erased gules. =0AIt=92s never too late to be= who you might have been.=0A-George Eliot=0ATosach e=F3lais imchomarc. - Qu= estioning is the beginning of knowledge. http://www.sengoidelc.com/node/131= =0A=0AFrom: Lynn Roth =0ASubject: Re: [h-cost] Spli= t drawer's expert?=0ATo: Historical Costume =0AMessage= -ID: <936572.90354.qm@web81115.mail.mud.yahoo.com>=0AContent-Type: text/pla= in; charset=3Diso-8859-1=0A=0AI'm neew to this list and have enjoyed learni= ng a lot of different things. I do recreating the 1500's. I didn't realiz= e that they had split drawers in the 16th cen. Do you have any historical = evidence that they had them in the nobility class in the midto late 1500's,= and what they were made of? I would appreciate any information. Lynn=0A= =0ASue Clemenger wrote:=0A Dunno about the 18th centu= ry, but there are rare surviving examples of them=0Afrom the 16th century. = I suspect that it was something that came and went,=0Aas a style.=0A=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading p= ane with All new Yahoo! Mail: http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=3Dca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 14:27:48 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HIRmgh014756 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 14:27:48 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HIRYAu026728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 14:27:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HIQw50025697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 12:26:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HIQvXq033790; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:26:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net [71.162.243.5]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HIQp7x033670 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:26:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7685E7000CC for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 14:26:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: new costume and textile books from DBBC Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 14:26:36 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 References: <20070517.091703.120.4.Cley@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20070517.091703.120.4.Cley@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200705171426.36832.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 0030b69a-1101-4457-a6fa-b553089e27eb X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 464C9E96.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 14:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Thursday 17 May 2007, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > Don't shoot the messenger! blame it on Ian at David Brown Book Company! I just got my copy in today's mail. (And because I'm home sick, I'm here to look at it, hee, hee). However, I did not get it from David Brown. Last week I found a UK vendor through Amazon Marketplace called The Book Depository who was promising to sell it for about $29 USD plus $3.49 USD shipping (Amazon marketplace's standard shipping rate). So I grabbed it and cancelled my DBBC order, and TBD delievered! -- Cathy Raymond "You've got to have the proper amount of disrespect for what you do." -- George Mabry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 14:50:01 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HIo1tL015727 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 14:50:01 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HInlxW031919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 14:49:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HIn9Ks029471 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 12:49:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HIn7fg055118; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:49:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from msgbas1x.cos.agilent.com (msgbas1x.cos.agilent.com [192.25.240.36]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HIn37u054993 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:49:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sunshine_buchler@agilent.com) Received: from relcos2.cos.agilent.com (relcos2.cos.agilent.com [130.29.152.237]) by msgbas1x.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1024E23048 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:48:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wcosvs03.cos.agilent.com (wcosvs03.cos.agilent.com [130.29.152.233]) by relcos2.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA88B146C64 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:48:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wcosbh03.cos.agilent.com ([130.29.152.128]) by wcosvs03.cos.agilent.com with InterScan Messaging Security Suite; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:48:56 -0600 Received: from wcosmb05.cos.agilent.com ([130.29.152.72]) by wcosbh03.cos.agilent.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 17 May 2007 12:48:56 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert? Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 12:48:55 -0600 Message-ID: <63D1F08E0E9EAF4185B5AE02D5C0D96402C926C9@wcosmb05.cos.agilent.com> In-Reply-To: <200705171701.l4HH0ooj045967@net.indra.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert? Thread-Index: AceYppun/t39mOi2Q/ioDBhBkkUMjgAC/9Mg References: <200705171701.l4HH0ooj045967@net.indra.com> From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 May 2007 18:48:56.0530 (UTC) FILETIME=[05FC3B20:01C798B4] X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c43b1c39-9330-4683-b1c6-b55c54a8757e X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 464CA3CB.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 14:49:50 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO =20 > I'm neew to this list and have enjoyed learning a lot of=20 > different things. I do recreating the 1500's. I didn't=20 > realize that they had split drawers in the 16th cen. Do you=20 > have any historical evidence that they had them in the=20 > nobility class in the midto late 1500's, and what they were=20 > made of? I would appreciate any information. Lynn I'm not an expert on split drawers, but I believe the surviving examples = in the 1500s are all Italian (and all decidedly upper-class). They are = discussed in either _Moda a Firenze_ or _Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe = Unlock'd_ (I'm away from my library so I can't check, sorry! It may be = discussed in both...). Another place to look is the Realm of = Venus>Library>Drawers - Brache or Calze: The article is: = http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/library/drawers.htm Pictures of extant drawers (not all with split legs): = http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/library/extdraw.htm http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/library/extdraw1.htm http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/library/extdraw2.htm A while ago, I thought someone from this list went to the Met in NY to = look at extant 16th cent. Italian chemises and drawers, but I no longer = remember _who_... Hope that helps, -sunny _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 15:18:07 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HJI6JF016892 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 15:18:06 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HJHqIi008032 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 15:17:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HJGMTj034237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 13:16:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HJGGu5080701; Thu, 17 May 2007 13:16:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HJGCrc080634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 13:16:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [209.148.118.241] (209-148-118-241.dial.dynamic.sonic.net [209.148.118.241]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l4HJGAwj005944 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:16:11 -0700 Message-ID: <464CA9FD.3030800@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 12:16:13 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert? References: <200705171701.l4HH0ooj045967@net.indra.com> <63D1F08E0E9EAF4185B5AE02D5C0D96402C926C9@wcosmb05.cos.agilent.com> In-Reply-To: <63D1F08E0E9EAF4185B5AE02D5C0D96402C926C9@wcosmb05.cos.agilent.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: bf6f79a4-2953-4e79-9ad1-48f8f6817231 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 464CAA60.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 15:17:56 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Somewhere I have information on the wardrobe of Juana "the Mad" (Katherine of Aragon's sister) . . . she wore drawers. Fran sunshine_buchler@agilent.com wrote: > > >>I'm neew to this list and have enjoyed learning a lot of >>different things. I do recreating the 1500's. I didn't >>realize that they had split drawers in the 16th cen. Do you >>have any historical evidence that they had them in the >>nobility class in the midto late 1500's, and what they were >>made of? I would appreciate any information. Lynn > > > I'm not an expert on split drawers, but I believe the surviving examples in the 1500s are all Italian (and all decidedly upper-class). They are discussed in either _Moda a Firenze_ or _Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd_ (I'm away from my library so I can't check, sorry! It may be discussed in both...). Another place to look is the Realm of Venus>Library>Drawers - Brache or Calze: > > The article is: http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/library/drawers.htm > > Pictures of extant drawers (not all with split legs): http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/library/extdraw.htm > http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/library/extdraw1.htm > http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/library/extdraw2.htm > > A while ago, I thought someone from this list went to the Met in NY to look at extant 16th cent. Italian chemises and drawers, but I no longer remember _who_... > Hope that helps, > -sunny > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 15:32:49 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HJWnIW017533 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 15:32:49 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HJWZxR030111 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 15:32:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HJVWWp036761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 13:31:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HJVSwG095130; Thu, 17 May 2007 13:31:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32715.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32715.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.28]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4HJVMoA094981 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 13:31:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 69010 invoked by uid 60001); 17 May 2007 19:31:17 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=SfxBaGEuO9dvX+cu1WSytlkkZeR/CbxaiqM16HZHC9w8L1y7VwpnRYgmKzndTEXfje+Xl37pp3KRuA3qLg0rEbJkWSHPkRIdIsGqUY+oX7jbuN8Z0PZlYFIUIjMYUceyE0bu/uCL41lKeDVX+mM0hnsqCFfbbFWI6qOkfsX9diw=; X-YMail-OSG: KjnODPkVM1kMf6GJZnKkVaN2pldv1BMsnqiY0BdKTTeHNyhxTAdtCGZmzphroeFvKYax5l8quNH_uHDmVNu6Qos6nldKOW0LywCAK5JXLL9.TZGCNZg- Received: from [208.179.44.218] by web32715.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 May 2007 12:31:17 PDT Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 12:31:17 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-opening style purse To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <464C865C.6060907@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <421070.68922.qm@web32715.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=24% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b3fc174b-aa8a-428b-99d6-e9840c28e811 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 464CADD3.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 15:32:39 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO --- Cynthia Virtue wrote: > MaggiRos wrote: > > What's being asked for is (or should be)something > like > > this > > > http://www.curiousfrau.com/Art_Research/pouches.htm > > > > I don't know anyone who makes them, although > something > > similar can be built on with a plain ring. > > > What a useful page -- thank you! You're welcome! > Here are the two that are in Boucher: > > http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/1400s_real_purses.jpg > Yes, exactly. It's good to look at the pictures and start to see what's there is not what you expect. One of my favorite resources is J.R. Hale's Artists & Warfare in the Renaissance. ISBN-13: 978-0300048407 http://www.amazon.com/Artists-Warfare-Renaissance-J-Hale/dp/0300048408 It's both an art book and a history book, and the details even in the large scenes are amazing. Excellent sources for both German and Italian soldiers and their women, plus nobles and some pageant stuff. MaggiRos _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 16:13:50 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HKDjP2019259 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 16:13:45 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HKDVdi012198 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 16:13:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HKClJL043745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 14:12:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HKCh5O034360; Thu, 17 May 2007 14:12:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from c-spam-01.awin.com (mail.disposal.com [204.13.216.10]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HKCadl034137 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 14:12:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Tori.Ruhl@awin.com) Received: from AZ_AWINDO1_INET3.awin.com (unverified [10.200.20.102]) by c-spam-01.awin.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.35.480.0) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 13:12:27 -0700 X-Modus-BlackList: 10.200.20.102=OK;Tori.Ruhl@awin.com=OK X-Modus-RBL: 10.200.20.102=OK X-Modus-Trusted: 10.200.20.102=NO Received: from INET3-MTA by AZ_AWINDO1_INET3.awin.com with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 17 May 2007 13:12:27 -0700 Message-Id: <464C54A40200005E0001E2DD@AZ_AWINDO1_INET3.awin.com> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 13:12:04 -0700 From: "Tori Ruhl" To: References: <200705171800.l4HI0BGx008155@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200705171800.l4HI0BGx008155@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=30% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7c4399b9-34a6-421a-9216-fe760a759971 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 464CB76B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 16:13:35 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I've heard people talk about making hats out of theatrical buckram. But I = didn't think that Buckram, as we know it, existed in the 16th century. If = not, then what DID exist as "Buckram"? What were the internal structure of = hats made out of?=20 I've seen the wire frame for the gabled hood at the V&A, but there had to = have been more to the support structure than just wires.=20 Any input, sources, opinions...etc. are greatly appreciated. - Tori _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 17:06:06 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HL66Lf021244 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 17:06:06 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HL5pjB009094 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 17:05:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HL5B6u050952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 15:05:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HL566j080956; Thu, 17 May 2007 15:05:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alnrmhc12.comcast.net (alnrmhc12.comcast.net [206.18.177.52]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HL50qm080804 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 15:05:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from argenthal@comcast.net) Received: from computer (c-69-142-192-249.hsd1.nj.comcast.net[69.142.192.249]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc12) with SMTP id <20070517210455b1200fa15te>; Thu, 17 May 2007 21:04:55 +0000 Message-ID: <001501c798c7$0008d080$f9c08e45@COMPUTER> From: "Valerie Frank" To: Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 17:04:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] Body measurement chart X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f469197f-ac75-49b9-a1fe-829d8fa957d6 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 464CC3AF.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 17:05:54 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hello, The Threads magazine site has a pretty decent chart for = women's clothes and also one that can be used to figure ease based on = favorite garments. Look under sewing basics and fitting. Anna von Argenthal _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 19:07:37 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HN7b91024953 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 19:07:37 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HN7NCU028585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 19:07:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HN6re1065109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 17:06:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HN6FfP074580; Thu, 17 May 2007 17:06:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HN6BBu074476 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 17:06:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.ca2.f2d2328 (39332) for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 19:06:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 19:06:04 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:oops X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: efcf82d1-f347-4022-85a7-f6e7db5ffa80 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 464CE02B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 19:07:27 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO apologies for not changing titles in my last post - realised as I hit the button I hadn't (was up all night so not entirely with it - sos!!) debs _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 19:35:49 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HNZm98025962 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 19:35:48 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4HNZY9a023785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 19:35:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4HNZ4Cn068625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 17:35:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HNZ32A093855; Thu, 17 May 2007 17:35:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web51302.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web51302.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.38.168]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4HNYwI5093686 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 17:35:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 9236 invoked by uid 60001); 17 May 2007 23:34:52 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=CtDKj6NHYu8rO5OG/8ZhuAuFM1UoSEBihRx/75maqecPgWzePLm3oFw5KGrJ2LSmuhboNOFUIMyxv1vSJ0fg33O2e+BNrhwB33ZcrXlPXABWFbpwpkaHornImJ+0HKyLl6Fe7lIOOejR10wVw+jgM2MDQRLc50jLIdOtf+ctU3g=; X-YMail-OSG: HNeUNJsVM1mcbDXMNvK91M.H_po8qkO650a54dOXRz6PPdggM8fJrPf0yRLOrme1A49UaegpOEgo0564o0g4voPbT7obRh6bDbXDzc9YHC_VQAJpu3Mg0JcE4_MUaNaPXYdNnGK0C4B57qnO_oOw7XleJA-- Received: from [69.182.219.69] by web51302.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 May 2007 16:34:52 PDT Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:34:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <003d01c797c1$044595e0$abbfa6d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <724959.8526.qm@web51302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=14% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Split drawers expert? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f9139b39-4553-4c95-94d4-5e799a5ddec1 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 464CE6C6.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 19:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > split drawers > I > was wondering if that "flip the skirts up over one's > head and wiggle one's > backside move, or the high kicks, originally offered > more of a *koff* view > than we'd think). When did it become common > practice for the split to be sewn up? > --Sue About the time the cancan was invented. At least for actresses and other notorious female segments of society. They were showing the new shocking Closed Drawers--very masculine garments, you understand. Open drawers are a lot more practical if you are wearing your drawers under your corsets, of course. Closed drawers (or modern underpants) can be yanked down in an emergency, but are really difficult to get back in place after the emergency had been dealt with. :/ Ann in CT ____________________________________________________________________________________ No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 20:32:00 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I0VtXB027496 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 20:31:56 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4I0VfjN020475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 20:31:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4I0V2Ni073841 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 18:31:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I0UvdJ023596; Thu, 17 May 2007 18:30:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I0UprU023540 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 18:30:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A1E3ACB0582; Fri, 18 May 2007 00:22:59 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-opening style purse Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 17:30:50 -0700 Message-ID: <003201c798e3$c9a8a7a0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: <200705170719.l4H7JikL035096@net.indra.com> Importance: Normal X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7a60f9c3-a9c9-44aa-86e4-b50ba879fd07 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 464CF3ED.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 20:31:45 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I asked the woman who has one. She made hers using 2 metal embroidery frames. She attached them together with a lightweight hinge, which she = sewed on. I think she covered the frames first, then sewed on the hinge. Hope = this helps. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] = On Behalf Of Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:15 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-opening style = purse Greetings, I'm looking for a 15th century replica frame-opening style purse. It=20 has a metal circular opening (with a hinged lid) that the leather=20 pouch hangs from, in case you don't know what I mean by "frame". I'm=20 not sure what the actual name of that type of purse would be. Does=20 anyone know where I can purchase such an item? I have yet to turn up=20 a merchant who sells them. Any help would be appreciated. Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 21:01:54 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I11sHH028242 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 21:01:54 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4I11dI1006955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 21:01:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4I11Cha076874 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 19:01:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I11B4R039623; Thu, 17 May 2007 19:01:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ik-out-1112.google.com (ik-out-1112.google.com [66.249.90.177]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HM4778028961 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 16:04:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from michaela.de.bruce@gmail.com) Received: by ik-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id b35so470911ika for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 15:04:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=RvfNJhsUjE9fzAgcJO9txg3U9Z7N/R6DNOpNR9ShIvnwqn9xCpNk9nurOVPOmDhmAd2wl0pEbU70fv7DH3f8K4POSY0xDuQ2SAzJzPJwRL8g/L8EdWgqPCz7A4MTsqpDtmPYbVDW9nKFX1EFQ4kP4gee0dXNeKP/Z5LKeOBOH/E= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=DLHwwq+MSIYE0QwRk5qMX0I+HmfCoMm+z+Dm9gUk0kwm5GASe5/61y7BcHv/FZOp3RDa9yUpHvsBNH71FPsxSxuG6ofNleWk6d8l5L1VvhbJWJ6aQvm71KeHtefuCWa/Pk3GhNCUUrJ4nZ9XnuvSu8OkoI1upAwEYXPohLSnJz0= Received: by 10.78.150.7 with SMTP id x7mr273076hud.1179439446331; Thu, 17 May 2007 15:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.153.6 with HTTP; Thu, 17 May 2007 15:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <73fb7a5f0705171504p3c5e8811v32f6ce2470c3c5ed@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 10:04:06 +1200 From: "michaela de bruce" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats In-Reply-To: <464C54A40200005E0001E2DD@AZ_AWINDO1_INET3.awin.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200705171800.l4HI0BGx008155@net.indra.com> <464C54A40200005E0001E2DD@AZ_AWINDO1_INET3.awin.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 625b6e91-73d9-41b0-8ba0-25b2ce1e9b68 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464CFAF3.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 21:01:43 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > I've heard people talk about making hats out of theatrical buckram. But I didn't think that Buckram, as we know it, existed in the 16th century. If not, then what DID exist as "Buckram"? What were the internal structure of hats made out of? As far as I can tell there is buckram (buckeram, bokeram etc) which is a linen cloth and then there is stiffened buckram (buckeram, bokeram etc) which is stiffened with glue in much the same way as modern buckram is. There is probably a difference in glue type and weave though;) Bokeram as a lining for a dress: Part XII: Privy Purse Expenses of Elizabeth of York: Entries #32 through 41. http://www.r3.org/bookcase/wardrobe/ward12.html "Itm....the same day to Henry Bryan for xvij yerdes of blake velvet for a gowne for the Quene at x s. vj d. the yerde viij li. xviij s. vj d. Itm for xiij yerdes of blake satten delivered to Johnson for a riding gowne for the Quene at ix s. the yerde C xvij s. Itm for a yerde di quarter of blake velvet for an edge and cuffes for the same gowne at xj s. vj d. the yerde xiij s. Itm for vij yerdes di of blake bokeram for lynyng of the same gowne at ix d. the yerde v s. viij d. ob. Itm for a nayle of sarcenet for fentes for the same gowne iiij d. and for an elle quarter of canvase for lynyng of the same gowne vj d. Sm{a} ----------xv li. xiiij s. xj d. ob." The style at the time doesn't suggest that this would be stiffened buckram. The canvas above could also be for interlining the body for support. Canvas is also mentioned for a lining: Part VIII: Privy Purse Expenses of Elizabeth of York: Entries #1 through 7. http://www.r3.org/bookcase/wardrobe/ward9.html " Itm for upper bodyeng sleving and lynyng of a gowne of blake velvet for the Quene of Scottes xx d. Itm for canvas to the same iij d." (btw I love this "Itm for a grete basket for the Quenes stuf vj d"" for her "stuff") Mary's wardrobe accounts apparently include a fine paste buckram for a farthingale I think.... Michaela de Bruce http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 21:02:01 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I120CL028252 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 21:02:00 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4I11kOf019109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 21:01:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4I11V4N076958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 19:01:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I11UQs039875; Thu, 17 May 2007 19:01:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4HN7xhi075765 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 17:08:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.d4e.9627dc4 (39332) for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 19:07:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 19:07:48 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] measurement chart site? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 529e7a4e-9711-4f84-afeb-bdb32fa1d816 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 464CFAFA.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 21:01:50 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO don't know of a website, but metric pattern cutting by winifred aldwych (sp?) has good charts (though they're obv metric - I tend to convert to inches on a spreadsheet) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 21:18:40 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I1IdH8028643 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 21:18:39 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4I1IPS0015421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 21:18:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4I1I27g078691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 19:18:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I1I0NN048904; Thu, 17 May 2007 19:18:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I1Hv6b048841 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 19:17:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m198.in-tch.com [216.166.191.198]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id l4I13DB21567 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 19:03:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <004201c798eb$a8d02be0$c6bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200705171701.l4HH0ooj045967@net.indra.com> <63D1F08E0E9EAF4185B5AE02D5C0D96402C926C9@wcosmb05.cos.agilent.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert? Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 19:27:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 50e28443-5200-41ab-9648-b9f9f9e5b4a2 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464CFEE1.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 21:18:29 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Thanks, Sunny...those were the ones I was thinking of when I posted this morning.... (the ones in _QE Unlocked_). --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert? > > > I'm neew to this list and have enjoyed learning a lot of > > different things. I do recreating the 1500's. I didn't > > realize that they had split drawers in the 16th cen. Do you > > have any historical evidence that they had them in the > > nobility class in the midto late 1500's, and what they were > > made of? I would appreciate any information. Lynn > > I'm not an expert on split drawers, but I believe the surviving examples in the 1500s are all Italian (and all decidedly upper-class). They are discussed in either _Moda a Firenze_ or _Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd_ (I'm away from my library so I can't check, sorry! It may be discussed in both...). Another place to look is the Realm of Venus>Library>Drawers - Brache or Calze: > > The article is: http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/library/drawers.htm > > Pictures of extant drawers (not all with split legs): http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/library/extdraw.htm > http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/library/extdraw1.htm > http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/library/extdraw2.htm > > A while ago, I thought someone from this list went to the Met in NY to look at extant 16th cent. Italian chemises and drawers, but I no longer remember _who_... > Hope that helps, > -sunny _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 17 21:57:51 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I1vpTv029629 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 21:57:51 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4I1va9v000717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 May 2007 21:57:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4I1tDQF082269 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 19:55:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I1tAXT068210; Thu, 17 May 2007 19:55:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from barra1.swissinfo.org (barra1.barra.srg.ch [146.159.6.75]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I1t6kI068128 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 19:55:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from swissgirl@swissinfo.org) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1179453290-577500190004-L6CAXr X-Barracuda-URL: http://146.159.6.75:8000/cgi-bin/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Connect: kuma.sri.ch[194.6.181.33] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1179453290 X-ASG-Whitelist: Sender Received: from mail.swissinfo.org (kuma.sri.ch [194.6.181.33]) by barra1.swissinfo.org (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id 0CFC1A7A0 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 03:55:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from compaqub (24.216.120.37) by mail.swissinfo.org (7.2.064.1) (authenticated as swissgirl) id 45DAE0BC0393CCE6 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 17 May 2007 19:34:14 +0200 Message-ID: <033601c798a9$a6aeb170$dd00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <318546.1522.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <00c401c797c4$d5755850$52a73743@denise8541f2db> X-ASG-Orig-Subj: not Perpignan, but... (stretchy wools) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 12:34:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Barracuda-Virus-Scanned: by Barracuda Spam Firewall at swissinfo.org X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: net.indra.com 1290; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] not Perpignan, but... (stretchy wools) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1ce3b5de-cacc-4aee-ab7c-8e12bde18e76 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464D0810.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 17 May 2007 21:57:40 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Not too long ago I chanced on a very interesting piece of wool fabric. It's 100% wool, but due to the way it's made, it has as much natural stretch as a lycra/wool blend! (Yes, I'm sure it's 100% wool.) It's a slightly loose basket weave, but that alone isn't what makes it so stretchy; rather, the stretchiness seems to come from the fact that both warp and weft are VERY tightly twisted. With the slightly loose weave, both warp and weft sort of crimp up a lot more than you usually see, so when you pull on it, the threads straighten out temporarily. The tightness of the spinning keeps the whole thing from shrinking up; the weave stays slightly loose. (If it shrank at all after I washed it, the amount was too small for me to measure.) When pulled, it stretches to about 110%-115% of its original length/width. That may not sound like much, but it's a whole lot when, say, you're making a supportive gown, or a pair of hose. I'm in love with it. I've got about 7 yds of it, and I am afraid to use it, because my hoarding instinct says it must be saved for the exact right project. (It wants to be 2 different styles of supportive undergowns, and I think I can get both out of it, but then it'd be gone and I'd lose/gain 20 lbs and be unable to wear them.) But more importantly, it has completely changed my idea of how much stretch medieval wool fabrics might have had! I've read archaeological reports of worsted textiles made from yarns spun with a high twist before; I am now going to go back and give them a much closer look. Somehow, I doubt that the archaeologists who studied those textiles gave 'em a good stretch... -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 18 00:17:45 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I4Hjvs000691 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 00:17:45 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4I4HU0U031053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 May 2007 00:17:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4I4Gd72097744 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 22:16:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I4GU2M041948; Thu, 17 May 2007 22:16:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I4GQV0041926 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 22:16:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A6C1725F0518; Fri, 18 May 2007 04:08:33 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-opening style purse Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 21:16:27 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01c79903$4df238e0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: <200705170719.l4H7JikL035096@net.indra.com> Importance: Normal X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5d95cc7d-055a-458c-8f44-f74c084f6fb1 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 464D28DB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 18 May 2007 00:17:34 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Another place to try is www.rockettsforge.com He has lots of period things, plus he can make something if you don't = see it on his site. He is very nice, does good work and his things are = excellent quality. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] = On Behalf Of Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:15 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-opening style = purse Greetings, I'm looking for a 15th century replica frame-opening style purse. It=20 has a metal circular opening (with a hinged lid) that the leather=20 pouch hangs from, in case you don't know what I mean by "frame". I'm=20 not sure what the actual name of that type of purse would be. Does=20 anyone know where I can purchase such an item? I have yet to turn up=20 a merchant who sells them. Any help would be appreciated. Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 18 00:18:55 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I4IrWa000715 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 00:18:53 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4I4IdZ9003889 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 May 2007 00:18:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4I4ILIX097940 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 22:18:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I4IKD8042893; Thu, 17 May 2007 22:18:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I4IHgS042861 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 22:18:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A7325E205CE; Fri, 18 May 2007 04:10:26 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] not Perpignan, but... (stretchy wools) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 21:18:20 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01c79903$923559b0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: <033601c798a9$a6aeb170$dd00a8c0@compaqub> Importance: Normal X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 87f795da-656f-4aa3-bf0b-afcf86e1c732 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464D291F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 18 May 2007 00:18:42 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Where did you get it? -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] = On Behalf Of E House Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 10:35 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] not Perpignan, but... (stretchy wools) Not too long ago I chanced on a very interesting piece of wool fabric. = It's 100% wool, but due to the way it's made, it has as much natural stretch = as a lycra/wool blend! (Yes, I'm sure it's 100% wool.) It's a slightly loose basket weave, but that alone isn't what makes it = so=20 stretchy; rather, the stretchiness seems to come from the fact that both = warp and weft are VERY tightly twisted. With the slightly loose weave, = both warp and weft sort of crimp up a lot more than you usually see, so when = you=20 pull on it, the threads straighten out temporarily. The tightness of = the=20 spinning keeps the whole thing from shrinking up; the weave stays = slightly=20 loose. (If it shrank at all after I washed it, the amount was too small = for me to measure.) When pulled, it stretches to about 110%-115% of its=20 original length/width. That may not sound like much, but it's a whole = lot=20 when, say, you're making a supportive gown, or a pair of hose. I'm in love with it. I've got about 7 yds of it, and I am afraid to use = it, because my hoarding instinct says it must be saved for the exact right=20 project. (It wants to be 2 different styles of supportive undergowns, = and I think I can get both out of it, but then it'd be gone and I'd lose/gain = 20=20 lbs and be unable to wear them.) But more importantly, it has completely changed my idea of how much = stretch=20 medieval wool fabrics might have had! I've read archaeological reports = of=20 worsted textiles made from yarns spun with a high twist before; I am now = going to go back and give them a much closer look. Somehow, I doubt = that=20 the archaeologists who studied those textiles gave 'em a good stretch... -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 18 00:36:39 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I4ac9U001142 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 00:36:38 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4I4aO9q002909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 May 2007 00:36:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4I4ZdNZ000634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 22:35:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I4Zc2p051895; Thu, 17 May 2007 22:35:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net [71.162.243.5]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I4ZX6B051846 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 22:35:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 513DB7000CC for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 00:35:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] not Perpignan, but... (stretchy wools) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 00:35:12 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 References: <000c01c79903$923559b0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> In-Reply-To: <000c01c79903$923559b0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200705180035.12698.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b3bd74e8-3201-4366-891a-aaeaf9a124e3 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 464D2D48.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 18 May 2007 00:36:28 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of E House > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 10:35 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] not Perpignan, but... (stretchy wools) > > > Not too long ago I chanced on a very interesting piece of wool fabric. > It's > > 100% wool, but due to the way it's made, it has as much natural stretch as > a lycra/wool blend! (Yes, I'm sure it's 100% wool.) > > It's a slightly loose basket weave, but that alone isn't what makes it so > stretchy; rather, the stretchiness seems to come from the fact that both > warp and weft are VERY tightly twisted. With the slightly loose weave, > both warp and weft sort of crimp up a lot more than you usually see, so when > you pull on it, the threads straighten out temporarily. The tightness of > the spinning keeps the whole thing from shrinking up; the weave stays >slightly loose. (If it shrank at all after I washed it, the amount was too > small for me to measure.) When pulled, it stretches to about 110%-115% of > its original length/width. That may not sound like much, but it's a whole > lot when, say, you're making a supportive gown, or a pair of hose. Sounds like a wool crepe to me. I used some for a bliaut once, and it molded to my form and refused to form the characteristic wrinkles. -- Cathy Raymond "You've got to have the proper amount of disrespect for what you do." -- George Mabry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 18 00:45:35 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I4jW4U001398 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 00:45:32 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4I4jIpg019272 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 May 2007 00:45:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4I4iqdm001460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 17 May 2007 22:44:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I4ipBN056342; Thu, 17 May 2007 22:44:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail10.tpgi.com.au (mail10.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.147]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I4ikTa056294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 22:44:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-217-33-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.217.33]) by mail10.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l4I4ih8a011350 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 14:44:45 +1000 Message-ID: <005b01c79907$41496ba0$21d9f5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c7960e$a874bd80$eaf1f4dc@user4712b7d135> Subject: Re: [h-cost] a cheat's late Victorian hat Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:44:42 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=17% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7a8916ca-5d76-45c2-a60f-9d2273b4543f X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 464D2F5E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 18 May 2007 00:45:21 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO thanks for everyone for the advice, I'm going to cut out the Butterick bonnet (http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.B4210=x&TI='4210'&page=1 view B but minus the brim so it will stop where the trim is in the picture) in paper and see how it looks. If that doesn't work I'll just have to wait a while until I have time to get to an op shop (aka thrift store / charity shop, and people say we speak the same language :-D) and see if they have any hats I could re-make (at the moment I'm working on this in 5 minute blocks in between trying to write 5 essays for Uni) Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 18 03:55:47 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I7tkTC003098 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 03:55:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4I7tWVv016536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 May 2007 03:55:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4I7swiY019267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 18 May 2007 01:54:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I7sqhM048931; Fri, 18 May 2007 01:54:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alnrmhc13.comcast.net (alnrmhc13.comcast.net [206.18.177.53]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I7snOq048876 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 01:54:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gilshallos@comcast.net) Message-Id: <200705180754.l4I7snOq048876@net.indra.com> Received: from nunnweinberg1.comcast.net (c-75-73-50-142.hsd1.mn.comcast.net[75.73.50.142]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc13) with SMTP id <20070518075443b1300dnr87e>; Fri, 18 May 2007 07:54:43 +0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 02:51:19 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-opening style purse In-Reply-To: <213162.34834.qm@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200705170719.l4H7JikL035096@net.indra.com> <213162.34834.qm@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: bf30c85f-beeb-46cc-aa88-5e0440625a0a X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 464D5BF4.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 18 May 2007 03:55:36 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Thank you, that is it exactly! I don't know the name for it either, so I was trying to describe as bet I could. From what I've seen of them, not having looked at any closely. It has to have a lid because my husband loses everything. Cheers, Danielle At 11:37 AM 5/17/2007, you wrote: >Is this what you're looking for, but with a "lid"? >http://www.answers.com/topic/thomas-howard-4th-duke-of-norfolk-02-jpg > >I call mine a "ring pouch" but I have no idea what >it's right name is. > >MaggiRos > >--- Danielle Nunn-Weinberg >wrote: > > > Greetings, > > > > I'm looking for a 15th century replica frame-opening > > style purse. It > > has a metal circular opening (with a hinged lid) > > that the leather > > pouch hangs from, in case you don't know what I mean > > by "frame". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 18 04:00:45 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I80iww003499 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 04:00:44 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4I80PGS026293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 May 2007 04:00:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4I7xpJR019668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 18 May 2007 01:59:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I7xo4U051457; Fri, 18 May 2007 01:59:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alnrmhc15.comcast.net (alnrmhc15.comcast.net [204.127.225.95]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I7xlO3051360 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 01:59:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gilshallos@comcast.net) Message-Id: <200705180759.l4I7xlO3051360@net.indra.com> Received: from nunnweinberg1.comcast.net (c-75-73-50-142.hsd1.mn.comcast.net[75.73.50.142]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc15) with SMTP id <20070518075942b1500slujie>; Fri, 18 May 2007 07:59:42 +0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 02:56:53 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-openingstyle purse In-Reply-To: References: <200705170719.l4H7JikL035096@net.indra.com> <003001c7985b$70c8c440$7914a150@CPQ21932199711> <200705170929.l4H9TcbQ002651@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 78eb9caa-77f4-4071-a904-f0d3f8db75ed X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 464D5D19.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 18 May 2007 04:00:33 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Thank you! I will check him out. Cheers, Danielle At 12:00 PM 5/17/2007, you wrote: >If you can't find what you want commercially, I highly recommend this fellow. >http://www.hr-replikate.de/englisch/index.html >He does wonderful work, and is reasonable. > > >Saragrace > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" > >> > >To: "Historical Costume" > > >Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:15 AM > >Subject: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-opening > style purse > > > > > >>Greetings, > >> > >>I'm looking for a 15th century replica frame-opening style > >>purse. It has a metal circular opening (with a hinged lid) that > >>the leather pouch hangs from, in case you don't know what I mean by > >>"frame". I'm not sure what the actual name of that type of purse > >>would be. Does anyone know where I can purchase such an item? I > >>have yet to turn up a merchant who sells them. Any help would > be appreciated. > >> > >>Cheers, > >>Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 18 06:33:12 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4IAXBrR028647 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 06:33:11 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4IAWuOe018481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 May 2007 06:33:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4IAVdHf038139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 18 May 2007 04:31:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4IAVY5L041118; Fri, 18 May 2007 04:31:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail8.tpgi.com.au (mail8.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.46]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4IAVSNo041067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 04:31:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-217-33-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.217.33]) by mail8.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l4IAVP1f022636 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 20:31:27 +1000 Message-ID: <000c01c79937$b0730f10$21d9f5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] a cheat's late Victorian hat Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 20:31:24 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=17% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c2bc4ab9-f26c-4e56-97e8-b5559a4df0d3 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 464D80D8.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 18 May 2007 06:33:00 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > I'd go super Edward Gorey just for the fun of it. All black....long > dramatic > veil....maybe a black fur boa-like stole. Black gloves and a large black > umbrella. Be sure to paint some circles under your moist eyes that you > keep > dabbing with that huge black lace hanky. And walk around in a > daze...completely > devastated. Yep, that's pretty much my vision too melodramatic mourning, as the grieving widow. Except the hanky is white bordered with black ribbon (authentic Victorian practice for a mourning hanky) with an A embroidered on it for my poor lost Albert (it's actually A for Anne, my sister but she says she doesn't want it as she uses tissues so all I need to do is add a black ribbon border) alternatively as the theme is an Irish wake I might ask my Grandma if she has any hankys embroidered with a P (for Pam) so I can bewail the fate of my poor dead Patrick ;-) I'm also keeping an eye out for a plain gold 'wedding' ring when I go shopping, but I don't think the prospects are that good (most of that cheap plastic stuff is designed for little girls and I don't have small enough hands to get away with them). I went through my cupboard and I was quite surprised at the number of black accessories I have, just not a hat or a dress. I've got leather gloves (my regular winter gloves) a faux fur stole, a real fur muff (though I'm not sure if I'll take that it's my only real fur item and it's too precious to me and hard to clean to risk stuff getting spilt on it) a black chiffon scarf, a drawstring velveteen pouch (one of the first accessories I made for SCA), plus a 5m roll of gros grain ribbon (that I didn't end up using on another project because I found something better) and a couple of black fabrics I can use as trim. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 18 08:00:06 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4IC05BH014237 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 08:00:05 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4IBxp66008715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 May 2007 07:59:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4IBtYw2047761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 18 May 2007 05:55:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4IBtU5Y090750; Fri, 18 May 2007 05:55:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from barra1.swissinfo.org (barra1.swissinfo.org [146.159.6.75]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4I7oMJl046170 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 01:50:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from swissgirl@swissinfo.org) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1179474608-28f900150002-L6CAXr X-Barracuda-URL: http://146.159.6.75:8000/cgi-bin/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Connect: kuma.sri.ch[194.6.181.33] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1179474608 X-ASG-Whitelist: Sender Received: from mail.swissinfo.org (kuma.sri.ch [194.6.181.33]) by barra1.swissinfo.org (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id B138242640 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 09:50:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from compaqub (24.216.120.37) by mail.swissinfo.org (7.2.064.1) (authenticated as swissgirl) id 45DAE0BC0396DEAA for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 18 May 2007 09:50:15 +0200 Message-ID: <039a01c79921$3c3bc8f0$dd00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000c01c79903$923559b0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> <200705180035.12698.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [h-cost] not Perpignan, but... (stretchy wools) Subject: Re: [h-cost] not Perpignan, but... (stretchy wools) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 02:50:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Barracuda-Virus-Scanned: by Barracuda Spam Firewall at swissinfo.org X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f9e13223-8926-46e4-8cd1-6f7ef9627408 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 464D9537.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 18 May 2007 07:59:55 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Definitely not crepe; it's a basketweave, plain and simple. Ok, not entirely simple! =} It was from fashion fabrics, but I'd be surprised if they still have it, sigh. -E House (avoiding FFC on account of how they treated Cathy...) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 18 10:01:10 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4IE1A2p018417 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 10:01:10 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4IE0taX009978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 May 2007 10:00:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4IDvRiJ063711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 18 May 2007 07:57:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4IDvPM8072134; Fri, 18 May 2007 07:57:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.40]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4IDvMLh072092 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 07:57:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.245.146.79.dial1.stamford1.level3.net ([4.245.146.79]) by pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1Hp2xN-0007Mq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 18 May 2007 09:57:21 -0400 In-Reply-To: <000c01c79937$b0730f10$21d9f5dc@user4712b7d135> References: <000c01c79937$b0730f10$21d9f5dc@user4712b7d135> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ruth Anne Baumgartner Subject: Re: [h-cost] a cheat's late Victorian hat Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 09:58:30 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=45% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 614ce778-61e9-42b4-84fd-f408e63b52bc X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 464DB197.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 18 May 2007 10:00:59 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO For the plain gold ring, go to an antiques shop. Some sell plain gold bands priced more by weight than by aesthetic or antiquarian value (so, depending on K, $20-$40 is what I've paid); and in a shop that carries "old & collectible" as well as "antique" you have a good chance of finding a wedding band that's gold-filled rather than solid gold--I've bought a couple of these in the $10-$15 range over the years. Why do I need so many wedding bands? I wear a lot of rings at a time and like to stack plain bands on one finger. More urgently, I direct and costume in community theater and often need to put rings on an actor. I've got wedding bands in many sizes! I wouldn't choose plastic even if I found it: I like the weight of a "real" ring and I do think it reads onstage, and of course the real ring lasts for more than one use. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On May 18, 2007, at 6:31 AM, Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > >> I'd go super Edward Gorey just for the fun of it. All >> black....long dramatic >> veil....maybe a black fur boa-like stole. Black gloves and a >> large black >> umbrella. Be sure to paint some circles under your moist eyes that >> you keep >> dabbing with that huge black lace hanky. And walk around in a >> daze...completely >> devastated. > > Yep, that's pretty much my vision too melodramatic mourning, as the > grieving widow. Except the hanky is white bordered with black > ribbon (authentic Victorian practice for a mourning hanky) with an > A embroidered on it for my poor lost Albert (it's actually A for > Anne, my sister but she says she doesn't want it as she uses > tissues so all I need to do is add a black ribbon border) > alternatively as the theme is an Irish wake I might ask my Grandma > if she has any hankys embroidered with a P (for Pam) so I can > bewail the fate of my poor dead Patrick ;-) I'm also keeping an eye > out for a plain gold 'wedding' ring when I go shopping, but I don't > think the prospects are that good (most of that cheap plastic stuff > is designed for little girls and I don't have small enough hands to > get away with them). > I went through my cupboard and I was quite surprised at the number > of black accessories I have, just not a hat or a dress. I've got > leather gloves (my regular winter gloves) a faux fur stole, a real > fur muff (though I'm not sure if I'll take that it's my only real > fur item and it's too precious to me and hard to clean to risk > stuff getting spilt on it) a black chiffon scarf, a drawstring > velveteen pouch (one of the first accessories I made for SCA), plus > a 5m roll of gros grain ribbon (that I didn't end up using on > another project because I found something better) and a couple of > black fabrics I can use as trim. > Elizabeth > -------------------------------------------- > Elizabeth Walpole > Canberra Australia > ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au > http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 18 10:37:56 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4IEbuxB019889 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 10:37:56 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4IEbflZ031920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 May 2007 10:37:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4IEax7G069598 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 18 May 2007 08:36:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4IEatn9004415; Fri, 18 May 2007 08:36:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cgp.netins.net (f2phy.netins.net [167.142.229.65]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4IEaphl004347 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 08:36:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from landofoz@netins.net) X-netINS-MPP: scanned Received: from [67.55.167.82] (account landofoz@netins.net HELO denise8541f2db) by cgpf2.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.13) with ESMTPA id 1316208703 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 18 May 2007 09:36:50 -0500 Message-ID: <021901c79959$fc15e1a0$52a73743@denise8541f2db> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000c01c79937$b0730f10$21d9f5dc@user4712b7d135> Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 09:36:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] rings for costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 901ac76d-19ac-434a-9d5b-76f70fe13d20 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464DBA36.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 18 May 2007 10:37:45 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Try a pawn shop or your local wal-mart equivalent. Wal-mart has some narrow, light weight 10K wedding rings extremely low priced. They usually have at least one in every size to try on and take home that day w/o waiting for re-sizing. Often you can get gold-over-sterling even cheaper, and plain sterling bands for next to nothing. Denise Iowa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 18 10:48:37 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4IEmbjF020297 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 10:48:37 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4IEmNDo007880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 May 2007 10:48:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4IEluHJ071260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 18 May 2007 08:47:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4IEltPG013965; Fri, 18 May 2007 08:47:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.236]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4IElpxJ013866 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 08:47:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara.francesca@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id t11so953649wxc for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 07:47:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:reply-to:from:to:references:subject:date:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-priority:x-msmail-priority:x-mailer:x-mimeole; b=MsZbCuZ5YbG6F2aDI+f2rmRtk7eitDJvfjFiUhU+H0SlhngtjKhGD14SWXyDv4fkle7rrJhcUWtLW7/q+9ohU4PqRd06liB46k0+dcLLnGP7gDDcsYXaHQfsBTd+x95u1A5Z6SPBgEetNvWKM8UN4/evlIFeZr8u/r0haRrB3Eo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:reply-to:from:to:references:subject:date:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-priority:x-msmail-priority:x-mailer:x-mimeole; b=peZpz7PMNPs0OMVX+R+9ymi0463NmHW59qZbcmtFXEkHSkZNnRQGxqiGKswbss6J852uogH9JYhycfDj+/inYo4MWwsS9UEEwd+wFZf9hdwGUNo/PuG8EWPh0ubVrts8JFkD1ijxfBWLuw2jYg+R//tGC58Br2ig28q4KtT7hzQ= Received: by 10.90.34.3 with SMTP id h3mr1794593agh.1179499667809; Fri, 18 May 2007 07:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CHESLAPTOP ( [76.185.38.68]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 15sm7579859wrl.2007.05.18.07.47.46; Fri, 18 May 2007 07:47:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <0c3b01c7995b$80b24970$020ba8c0@CHESLAPTOP> From: "Chiara Francesca" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000c01c79937$b0730f10$21d9f5dc@user4712b7d135> <021901c79959$fc15e1a0$52a73743@denise8541f2db> Subject: Re: [h-cost] rings for costume Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 09:47:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8fc3a6a4-4cc1-455c-a7e3-5a4cb4e21d87 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464DBCB7.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 18 May 2007 10:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Believe it or not JCPenny has some nice thin band with no decoration rings as well, 10k, 14k, and they have the rose gold ones too. Prices are pretty good too. Another resource would be your closest college town that has one of those beatnik walk through open air shopping areas Chiara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:36 AM Subject: [h-cost] rings for costume > Try a pawn shop or your local wal-mart equivalent. Wal-mart has some > narrow, light weight 10K wedding rings extremely low priced. They usually > have at least one in every size to try on and take home that day w/o > waiting for re-sizing. Often you can get gold-over-sterling even cheaper, > and plain sterling bands for next to nothing. > > Denise > Iowa > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 18 20:40:06 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4J0e6wO009681 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 20:40:06 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4J0dq3D011851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 May 2007 20:39:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4J0cUBU052528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 18 May 2007 18:38:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4J0cOcj099095; Fri, 18 May 2007 18:38:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.154]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4J0cLp4099018 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 18:38:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <20070519003815m1400cjlkoe>; Sat, 19 May 2007 00:38:16 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <464BC6EB.5030308@worldnet.att.net> References: <200705170132.l4H1WVgt047947@net.indra.com> <464BC6EB.5030308@worldnet.att.net> Message-Id: From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] measurement chart site? Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 18:38:15 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4d1d7e00-df69-4b04-a228-dc99a54a2d86 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 464E4758.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 18 May 2007 20:39:55 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I can't recall where this came from, but it seems quite thorough. Don't forget to click on the link for the diagram. http://www.insideleg.com/blanksheet.php Sylvia Rognstad Divinity Designs and Emeralds http://www.d-e-designs.com On May 16, 2007, at 9:07 PM, Kiloran@worldnet.att.net wrote: > Can an body recommend a website where I can find a form of some kind > that shows all the various body measurements you'd need to take of a > person if you were going to make clothing or garb for them? I know the > standard ones (bust, waist, etc.) but I'd really like to find a > detailed chart that I can use. > Julie > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 18 22:02:44 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4J22iBI011420 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 22:02:44 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4J22TtA001848 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 May 2007 22:02:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4J21NUi061978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 18 May 2007 20:01:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4J21Jb0046204; Fri, 18 May 2007 20:01:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.48.109]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4J21FQf046125 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 20:01:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 39655 invoked by uid 60001); 19 May 2007 02:01:10 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=QVtte0PXr9lvD6DCqOgku/l7NX7PU2k1W/E4Y34InIGYW7gdjochw5w8Q1uwgfGeNab6WtChG/ICORz5IdnnLSVn2bhdcSrZ1n005mz8NZK38JIQP5OOCP0sB5zXVdimPkLOz6L4fPjsiw6SQEtq/0lm/vWH5mRaG8J9lLZ7AVw=; X-YMail-OSG: 2pYFsmAVM1k13xj75G4iF5z6iSUHAT49b_3aO9hNfaQxZilBh20QqVvF4cykCbau3Q-- Received: from [74.114.43.209] by web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 18 May 2007 19:01:10 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.23.1 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.10 Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 19:01:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <149043.39640.qm@web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=27% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Split drawer's expert? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ceadc066-4e9e-4b58-90aa-27a312033b0b X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 464E5AB5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 18 May 2007 22:02:33 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Fran, =0A=0AIf you can locate that reference somewhere, I'd love to have it= . That further supports my theory about the Sicilian underwear. Eleonora's = wardrobe accounts show underwear coming with her from Naples to Florence, b= ut Italians disdained the, having the prostitute implication attached. =0A= =0AKathy=0A =0AErmine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoul= der with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert=0A(Fieldless) On= a rose Or barbed vert a lion's head erased gules. =0AIt=92s never too = late to be who you might have been.=0A-George Eliot=0ATosach e=F3lais imcho= marc. - Questioning is the beginning of knowledge. =0AWhere the spirit does= not work with the hand, there is no art.=0A-Leonardo da Vinci=0ASomewhere = I have information on the wardrobe of Juana "the Mad" =0A(Katherine of Arag= on's sister) . . . she wore drawers.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A Be sma= rter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot wi= th the All-new Yahoo! Mail at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=3Dca= =0A _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 18 22:08:58 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4J28wgh011535 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 22:08:58 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4J28iZK031430 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 May 2007 22:08:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4J28Eb0062558 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 18 May 2007 20:08:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4J28BJE050012; Fri, 18 May 2007 20:08:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.48.114]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4J288J1049957 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 20:08:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 47705 invoked by uid 60001); 19 May 2007 02:08:05 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=yJkvdfo+l5+ZbM47BdadLdnelMi7ww6VXc/MjJsK/93EqEkHpqPVVgEZxkiK41Tnm9s9Md1o9EW1OSkkrkrFlTBJJ/C/2uqrNASSLsenqvzi5xvT1I5oqL0I82SSJCiKrQhVKerOxDqC/BcXFRsJlylqDDI/R+LR74LShjWA1nA=; X-YMail-OSG: vPwjGJcVM1mxtt9M0rFpfLp__ISCFVFnOxHWzSFLAZaBXcvxY.4fko3DQLUwDzxdTA-- Received: from [74.114.43.209] by web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 18 May 2007 19:08:05 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.23.1 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.10 Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 19:08:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <365364.46843.qm@web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=14% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Split drawer's expert? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 137f0a7c-7b4d-4362-a7af-8f7c9724ea58 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 464E5C2C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 18 May 2007 22:08:48 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Sunny,=0AThat would be me. I just presented at Kalamazoo on the topic of th= e Sicilian trousseau. I do know that the Met will be publishing a major-lea= gue documentation book on the same topic in the coming years, I guess they = felt the need to make me the opening act, rather than the major attraction.= *shrug* They'll cover way more than I ever could afford to do.=0A=0AAsk ju= st about anything you want, and I'll do what I can to answer. :-) I have in= fo on the Venetian camicia, the Sicilian trousseau, and the chopines in the= ir collection.=0A=0AKathy=0A =0AErmine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules cha= rged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert= =0A(Fieldless) On a rose Or barbed vert a lion's head erased gules. =0A= It=92s never too late to be who you might have been.=0A-George Eliot=0ATosa= ch e=F3lais imchomarc. - Questioning is the beginning of knowledge. =0AWher= e the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art.=0A-Leonardo da V= inci=0A=0AA while ago, I thought someone from this list went to the Met in = NY to look at extant 16th cent. Italian chemises and drawers, but I no long= er remember _who_...=0A Hope that helps,=0A -sunny=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real = people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.y= ahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 18 22:23:32 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4J2NWxj011898 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 22:23:32 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4J2NIbG000851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 18 May 2007 22:23:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4J2Kd0S063873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 18 May 2007 20:20:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4J2KbdB056885; Fri, 18 May 2007 20:20:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4J2KY4x056856 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 20:20:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [209.148.118.34] (209-148-118-34.dial.dynamic.sonic.net [209.148.118.34]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l4J2KVVd002494 for ; Fri, 18 May 2007 19:20:33 -0700 Message-ID: <464E5EF5.8090402@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 19:20:37 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Split drawer's expert? References: <149043.39640.qm@web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <149043.39640.qm@web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 6af29c1a-7670-40f7-ad3c-d33ef4e776ec X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 464E5F96.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 18 May 2007 22:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I'm going from memory, but this might be in: Anderson, Ruth Matilda. Hispanic Costume 1480–1530. New York: Hispanic Society of America, 1979. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costume http://www.lavoltapress.com Kathy Page wrote: > Fran, > > If you can locate that reference somewhere, I'd love to have it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 19 12:15:14 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4JGFEFj002567 for ; Sat, 19 May 2007 12:15:14 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4JGExor014243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 19 May 2007 12:15:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4JGDjIS077854 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 19 May 2007 10:13:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4JGDd7W037999; Sat, 19 May 2007 10:13:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.197]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4JGDaMW037926 for ; Sat, 19 May 2007 10:13:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with SMTP id <0JIA000UNQEGD830@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 19 May 2007 12:13:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 12:13:21 -0400 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] Somewhat OT -- Black detergent? In-reply-to: <95224C16-8990-44A3-B8ED-C170A882D679@comcast.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=14% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b4b31f1a-9339-460c-903e-fe24d3797d55 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464F2284.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 19 May 2007 12:15:03 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I use Cheer for darks on my dark clothes and have found that my clothes don't fade. Black and red stay a lot better than they used to. Hope this helps. Monica -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Lauren Walker Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 12:00 AM To: h-costume h-costume Subject: [h-cost] Somewhat OT -- Black detergent? Hi, A couple of the laundry soap companies now offer products recommended for dark-colored clothes. The liquids appear to actually be dark- colored themselves. I wear a lot of black, and it fades. I am wondering if anybody has used any of these products, and if they help restore dark colors or just mimimize fading, or if, perhaps they do not do anything at all? Also, did it stain the washer or anything? In the 18th C and perhaps other times, they was a whole service in redying black stuff, a function now mostly covered by Rit. I was just wondering about the effectiveness of these soap things, if anybody's had experience. Thanks. Lauren Lauren M. Walker lauren.walker@comcast.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 19 14:54:41 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4JIsfnJ006447 for ; Sat, 19 May 2007 14:54:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4JIsQ8V008572 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 19 May 2007 14:54:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4JIrFPX098192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 19 May 2007 12:53:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4JIrA2H038713; Sat, 19 May 2007 12:53:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.201]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4JHNK01081361 for ; Sat, 19 May 2007 11:23:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mdcarey@compuserve.com) Received: (qmail 46517 invoked from network); 19 May 2007 17:23:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (mdpierocarey@att.net@70.228.98.245 with plain) by smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2007 17:23:14 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: IT5_nBQVM1kEJ7h7bQUAIVWyrGlqcAsq2z8IN180KsL5UbBS Message-ID: <464F325B.4000000@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 13:22:35 -0400 From: "M + D (Mary Piero Carey+Doug Piero Carey)" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200705180118.l4I1I1LE048918@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200705180118.l4I1I1LE048918@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A question for the List Mind: Kimono X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 31155207-a96d-475a-a183-d5008c950bc8 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464F47E2.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 19 May 2007 14:54:30 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO hello folks, The local art Museum is putting together a Kimono show next year. I'm working on their request for a list of magazines to advertise it in and/or send anouncements to. They asked for magazines on Japan. I'm also going to give them textiles, & fiberart. So, what magazines do you think they should hear about? Just off the top of my head: Fiberarts Threads Sew News Flying Needle Orient Express Oriental Art Japan Plus Japan Journal any number of museum related mags, which they probably know better than I do I'm hoping for you to give me relatively less well known historical society & hobbyist titles. So what do you read, that prints listings of museum exhibits? I'll be grateful for anything you can think of! Thanks! Mary Piero Carey _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 19 16:09:03 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4JK93VL008657 for ; Sat, 19 May 2007 16:09:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4JK8mO4022793 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 19 May 2007 16:08:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4JK7W8e007141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 19 May 2007 14:07:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4JK7RbH084573; Sat, 19 May 2007 14:07:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m26.mx.aol.com (imo-m26.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4JK7NGW084477 for ; Sat, 19 May 2007 14:07:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.ccc.11db10bf (29672) for ; Sat, 19 May 2007 16:07:08 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 16:07:08 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5366 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Poiret exhibit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c3b3aad1-fca9-4d92-aa09-33ee1ce58762 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 464F5950.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 19 May 2007 16:08:52 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In case you didn't know....there an exhibit of fashions by Poiret at the Met Museum in NYC. You can see a slide show of 9 images [what a tease!] if you go to NewYorker.com look to the left of the site for "Slide Shows". And while you're there, check out the slide show of Edward Hopper paintings on exhibit in Boston. He's like a 20th century Vermeer, IMHO. Both articles that go with these pictures are very interesting. Enjoy! ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 19 16:13:19 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4JKDJYF008762 for ; Sat, 19 May 2007 16:13:19 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4JKD50a023079 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 19 May 2007 16:13:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4JKCXOd007731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 19 May 2007 14:12:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4JKCWoL087510; Sat, 19 May 2007 14:12:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4JKCT1v087476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 19 May 2007 14:12:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [209.148.118.147] (209-148-118-147.dial.dynamic.sonic.net [209.148.118.147]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l4JKCPhQ007809 for ; Sat, 19 May 2007 13:12:28 -0700 Message-ID: <464F5A2D.2020309@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 13:12:29 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Poiret exhibit References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 715e56bc-0a69-4db7-8d87-a932b85a0a80 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464F5A51.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 19 May 2007 16:13:09 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO There's also a huge accompanying book titled _Poiret_, by Harold Koda and Andrew Bolton. My copy arrived yesterday. The auction catalog, which I also have, actually had a lot more images in it than the book. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 19 19:18:46 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4JNIjUO013615 for ; Sat, 19 May 2007 19:18:45 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4JNIVq2001543 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 19 May 2007 19:18:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4JNHYbH027218 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 19 May 2007 17:17:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4JNHUic091663; Sat, 19 May 2007 17:17:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.140]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4JNHRHB091584 for ; Sat, 19 May 2007 17:17:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 32059 invoked from network); 19 May 2007 23:17:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.148.242 with login) by smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2007 23:17:21 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ibsWsvAVM1kmewOSMNYqeygjBdWqexqlMEGk.Jr9p8SUF2S.VQlff99wz6VNVH6HrEcjPZk6gUGacNIJoewjqRsOiQIOLl8- Message-ID: <008c01c79a6b$d56dceb0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200705180118.l4I1I1LE048918@net.indra.com> <464F325B.4000000@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A question for the List Mind: Kimono Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 19:17:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4ac525aa-0196-4c39-9676-bad10974791f X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 464F85C7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 19 May 2007 19:18:35 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Piecework, for sure. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "M + D (Mary Piero Carey+Doug Piero Carey)" To: Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 1:22 PM Subject: [h-cost] A question for the List Mind: Kimono > hello folks, > > The local art Museum is putting together a Kimono show next year. I'm > working on their request for a list of magazines to advertise it in and/or > send anouncements to. They asked for magazines on Japan. I'm also going > to give them textiles, & fiberart. So, what magazines do you think they > should hear about? > > Just off the top of my head: > Fiberarts > Threads > Sew News > Flying Needle > Orient Express > Oriental Art > Japan Plus > Japan Journal > any number of museum related mags, which they probably know better than I > do > > I'm hoping for you to give me relatively less well known historical > society & hobbyist titles. So what do you read, that prints listings of > museum exhibits? > > I'll be grateful for anything you can think of! > > > Thanks! > > Mary Piero Carey > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 19 19:52:36 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4JNqatw014487 for ; Sat, 19 May 2007 19:52:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4JNqLlP008311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 19 May 2007 19:52:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4JNptNA030229 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 19 May 2007 17:51:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4JNpr49008914; Sat, 19 May 2007 17:51:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.141]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4JNpnrB008821 for ; Sat, 19 May 2007 17:51:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 58915 invoked from network); 19 May 2007 23:51:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.148.242 with login) by smtp103.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2007 23:51:44 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: VSIO6dMVM1lIaYPgKzzv7jDIcw8l6Sz3jRsJm9V9e7N9aJeNdMdSOUoPl6VWRTL.iPZUYFa9V9Q7HqQq7jET_ZzVw6w- Message-ID: <00a701c79a70$a1a97340$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <464F5A2D.2020309@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Poiret exhibit Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 19:51:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 37c86fad-e2f7-4d6a-93b1-10db490262a1 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 464F8DB5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 19 May 2007 19:52:25 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Fran, how did you get the exhibit volume? mail order or store visitation? One of my favorite designers! I am currently using the Queen Maude fashion collection book for minifashions and would live to get this exhibit book also. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Poiret exhibit > There's also a huge accompanying book titled _Poiret_, by Harold Koda and > Andrew Bolton. My copy arrived yesterday. > > The auction catalog, which I also have, actually had a lot more images in > it than the book. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 19 21:48:21 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4K1mL5i017890 for ; Sat, 19 May 2007 21:48:21 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4K1m60u017239 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 19 May 2007 21:48:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4K1kuvj040627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 19 May 2007 19:46:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4K1kqNr069284; Sat, 19 May 2007 19:46:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4K1kn1I069235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 19 May 2007 19:46:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [209.148.118.166] (209-148-118-166.dial.dynamic.sonic.net [209.148.118.166]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l4K1kkst007340 for ; Sat, 19 May 2007 18:46:48 -0700 Message-ID: <464FA88C.60604@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 18:46:52 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Poiret exhibit References: <464F5A2D.2020309@lavoltapress.com> <00a701c79a70$a1a97340$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> In-Reply-To: <00a701c79a70$a1a97340$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 26fc6f80-ccab-41e2-802a-306580d6087a X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 464FA8D6.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 19 May 2007 21:48:10 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO The auction catalog was a limited edition and I got one of the last two copies printed, or so they told me. I bought it direct from the auction house soon after the auction. The _Poiret_ museum exhibit book by Harold Koda is available on Amazon etc. Fran LLOYD MITCHELL wrote: > Fran, how did you get the exhibit volume? mail order or store > visitation? One of my favorite designers! I am currently using the > Queen Maude fashion collection book for minifashions and would live to > get this exhibit book also. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 19 22:37:47 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4K2blim019434 for ; Sat, 19 May 2007 22:37:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4K2bWMT024949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 19 May 2007 22:37:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4K2b6vk045067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 19 May 2007 20:37:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4K2b1BL094696; Sat, 19 May 2007 20:37:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth.cybermesa.com (smtpauth.cybermesa.com [65.19.4.28]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4K2awEB094605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 19 May 2007 20:37:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sovagris@cybermesa.com) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (71-214-249-9.desm.qwest.net [71.214.249.9]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtpauth.cybermesa.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4K2aoVY015449 for ; Sat, 19 May 2007 20:36:51 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: <200705191853.l4JIrc1Z038979@net.indra.com> References: <200705191853.l4JIrc1Z038979@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <7AF491F1-CDEE-4E52-ABDC-A1F98EAE25C9@cybermesa.com> From: Suzanne Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 21:36:48 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: museum listings in magazines X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f8f90b69-8efc-4749-97f2-4818fe223e4d X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 464FB46C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 19 May 2007 22:37:36 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I read the listings in "The Magazine ANTIQUES" but you probably already know about that one. (Public libraries often file it under 'A' because the word "antiques" appears in a much larger font size than the rest of the title; academic libraries may list it differently....) I don't know that I'd bother with Orient Express -- when I worked in a public library, we found that it was seldom used -- YMMV. They might want to list it on the Costume Society of America website, but I suppose the institution would need to belong to CSA first. Actually, I think you've pretty much got it covered already. :-) Suzanne > Date: May 19, 2007 12:22:35 PM CDT > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] A question for the List Mind: Kimono > ... > hello folks, > > The local art Museum is putting together a Kimono show next year. > I'm working on their request for a list of magazines to advertise > it in and/or send anouncements to. They asked for magazines on > Japan. I'm also going to give them textiles, & fiberart. So, what > magazines do you think they should hear about? > > Just off the top of my head: > Fiberarts > Threads > Sew News > Flying Needle > Orient Express > Oriental Art > Japan Plus > Japan Journal > any number of museum related mags, which they probably know better > than I do > > I'm hoping for you to give me relatively less well known historical > society & hobbyist titles. So what do you read, that prints > listings of museum exhibits? > > I'll be grateful for anything you can think of! > > > Thanks! > > Mary Piero Carey _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 20 00:24:27 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4K4OQAY022184 for ; Sun, 20 May 2007 00:24:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4K4OCdP030998 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 20 May 2007 00:24:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4K4LFwt056123 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 19 May 2007 22:21:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4K4LBTB047412; Sat, 19 May 2007 22:21:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4K4L8vU047352 for ; Sat, 19 May 2007 22:21:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.d01.fa4072d (43931) for ; Sun, 20 May 2007 00:20:58 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 00:20:58 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Poiret exhibit To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 78759bf5-fb47-447e-aab7-a8ea327426d8 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 464FCD6C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 20 May 2007 00:24:16 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/19/2007 4:13:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, fran@lavoltapress.com writes: There's also a huge accompanying book titled _Poiret_, by Harold Koda and Andrew Bolton. My copy arrived yesterday. Wow, you mean they got the book done while the exhibit is still up, for a change? For those list members who are also members of the Costume Society of America, watch your mailboxes. The Midatlantic Region is sponsoring a visit to the Met on June 23. We won't get a private tour of the exhibit--that is a logistical nightmare, evidently--but we will get to hear Harold Koda speak about it and then tour on our own. This is sure to be a sell-out, so reserve when you get your materials in the mail. Ann Wass ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 20 07:49:45 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4KBnhxh018932 for ; Sun, 20 May 2007 07:49:43 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4KBnT7f002154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 20 May 2007 07:49:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4KBm6Lp005804 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 20 May 2007 05:48:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4KBlvJt081580; Sun, 20 May 2007 05:47:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com [209.73.179.140]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4KBlqEA081482 for ; Sun, 20 May 2007 05:47:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: (qmail 13738 invoked from network); 20 May 2007 11:47:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO IBMTHINKPAD) (rlksm1@verizon.net@72.95.160.60 with login) by smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 May 2007 11:47:47 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: lrW7eBgVM1kjcYNX0q08V29w5aKnKanbtzFeIoEo6soU5tGbTOJoO7vEQh6M.eT2CfbGTSAAoq34XspHxgGEt9FoDZ8- Message-ID: <000401c79ad4$aa9208f0$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> From: "LLOYD MITCHELL" To: "Historical Costume" References: <464F5A2D.2020309@lavoltapress.com><00a701c79a70$a1a97340$2f01a8c0@IBMTHINKPAD> <464FA88C.60604@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Poiret exhibit Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 07:47:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: af453be0-87fc-4509-8d9c-c94f23168ac0 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 465035C9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 20 May 2007 07:49:32 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Thank you, I have already ordered it. KSM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 9:46 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Poiret exhibit > The auction catalog was a limited edition and I got one of the last two > copies printed, or so they told me. I bought it direct from the auction > house soon after the auction. The _Poiret_ museum exhibit book by > Harold Koda is available on Amazon etc. > > Fran > > LLOYD MITCHELL wrote: >> Fran, how did you get the exhibit volume? mail order or store >> visitation? One of my favorite designers! I am currently using the >> Queen Maude fashion collection book for minifashions and would live to >> get this exhibit book also. >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 20 17:21:41 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4KLLbFf012017 for ; Sun, 20 May 2007 17:21:37 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4KLLMxC013106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 20 May 2007 17:21:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4KLK7JD084803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 20 May 2007 15:20:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4KLK2L1033223; Sun, 20 May 2007 15:20:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4KLJx41033151 for ; Sun, 20 May 2007 15:20:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A9A18F402A0; Sun, 20 May 2007 21:12:01 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] not Perpignan, but... (stretchy wools) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 14:19:46 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01c79b24$9747edf0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <033601c798a9$a6aeb170$dd00a8c0@compaqub> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5ec409ec-47c9-451d-bde4-0933bb9788d9 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4650BBD2.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 20 May 2007 17:21:26 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO That reminds me of some gauze fabric I had years ago. It was really = lovely and I made a shirt out of it. But when washed, it shrank up a lot, got = all crinkly. I had to iron it to get it to be flat again. It would have made great hose. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] = On Behalf Of E House Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 10:35 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] not Perpignan, but... (stretchy wools) Not too long ago I chanced on a very interesting piece of wool fabric. = It's 100% wool, but due to the way it's made, it has as much natural stretch = as a lycra/wool blend! (Yes, I'm sure it's 100% wool.) It's a slightly loose basket weave, but that alone isn't what makes it = so=20 stretchy; rather, the stretchiness seems to come from the fact that both = warp and weft are VERY tightly twisted. With the slightly loose weave, = both warp and weft sort of crimp up a lot more than you usually see, so when = you=20 pull on it, the threads straighten out temporarily. The tightness of = the=20 spinning keeps the whole thing from shrinking up; the weave stays = slightly=20 loose. (If it shrank at all after I washed it, the amount was too small = for me to measure.) When pulled, it stretches to about 110%-115% of its=20 original length/width. That may not sound like much, but it's a whole = lot=20 when, say, you're making a supportive gown, or a pair of hose. I'm in love with it. I've got about 7 yds of it, and I am afraid to use = it, because my hoarding instinct says it must be saved for the exact right=20 project. (It wants to be 2 different styles of supportive undergowns, = and I think I can get both out of it, but then it'd be gone and I'd lose/gain = 20=20 lbs and be unable to wear them.) But more importantly, it has completely changed my idea of how much = stretch=20 medieval wool fabrics might have had! I've read archaeological reports = of=20 worsted textiles made from yarns spun with a high twist before; I am now = going to go back and give them a much closer look. Somehow, I doubt = that=20 the archaeologists who studied those textiles gave 'em a good stretch... -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 20 17:49:55 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4KLntLd013365 for ; Sun, 20 May 2007 17:49:55 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4KLnfjV005833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 20 May 2007 17:49:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4KLmoFo089878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 20 May 2007 15:48:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4KLmmXo049479; Sun, 20 May 2007 15:48:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from navgw2.mccc.edu (navgw2.mccc.edu [198.133.170.232]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4KLmiRw049373 for ; Sun, 20 May 2007 15:48:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw2.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.1.0.19) with SMTP id M2007052017483828665 for ; Sun, 20 May 2007 17:48:38 -0400 Received: from TH103A ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l4KLmYsI024820 for ; Sun, 20 May 2007 17:48:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Kate Pinner" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] not Perpignan, but... (stretchy wools) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 17:48:28 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 04993faf-1ea1-4b26-8d26-8ddd7995550e X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 4650C275.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 20 May 2007 17:49:44 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Cheesecloth does that. You can wash it and use the crinkly result for Greek dress onstage. Kate 609-570-3584 -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sharon Collier Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 5:20 PM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: RE: [h-cost] not Perpignan, but... (stretchy wools) That reminds me of some gauze fabric I had years ago. It was really lovely and I made a shirt out of it. But when washed, it shrank up a lot, got all crinkly. I had to iron it to get it to be flat again. It would have made great hose. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of E House Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 10:35 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] not Perpignan, but... (stretchy wools) Not too long ago I chanced on a very interesting piece of wool fabric. It's 100% wool, but due to the way it's made, it has as much natural stretch as a lycra/wool blend! (Yes, I'm sure it's 100% wool.) It's a slightly loose basket weave, but that alone isn't what makes it so stretchy; rather, the stretchiness seems to come from the fact that both warp and weft are VERY tightly twisted. With the slightly loose weave, both warp and weft sort of crimp up a lot more than you usually see, so when you pull on it, the threads straighten out temporarily. The tightness of the spinning keeps the whole thing from shrinking up; the weave stays slightly loose. (If it shrank at all after I washed it, the amount was too small for me to measure.) When pulled, it stretches to about 110%-115% of its original length/width. That may not sound like much, but it's a whole lot when, say, you're making a supportive gown, or a pair of hose. I'm in love with it. I've got about 7 yds of it, and I am afraid to use it, because my hoarding instinct says it must be saved for the exact right project. (It wants to be 2 different styles of supportive undergowns, and I think I can get both out of it, but then it'd be gone and I'd lose/gain 20 lbs and be unable to wear them.) But more importantly, it has completely changed my idea of how much stretch medieval wool fabrics might have had! I've read archaeological reports of worsted textiles made from yarns spun with a high twist before; I am now going to go back and give them a much closer look. Somehow, I doubt that the archaeologists who studied those textiles gave 'em a good stretch... -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 21 10:10:04 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LEA4Tm032098 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 10:10:04 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4LE9oFK018704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 May 2007 10:09:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4LE8W0g021982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 May 2007 08:08:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LE8Oo8003300; Mon, 21 May 2007 08:08:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.200]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LE8KfS003106 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 08:08:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (mstr4a.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [10.240.4.4]) by mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JIE00BZU9XQH8X0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 21 May 2007 10:08:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.240.3.198] (Forwarded-For: 209.158.177.3, [10.240.3.198]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Mon, 21 May 2007 14:08:14 +0000 (GMT) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 14:08:14 +0000 (GMT) From: purplkat@optonline.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: museum listings in magazines In-reply-to: <7AF491F1-CDEE-4E52-ABDC-A1F98EAE25C9@cybermesa.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal References: <200705191853.l4JIrc1Z038979@net.indra.com> <7AF491F1-CDEE-4E52-ABDC-A1F98EAE25C9@cybermesa.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=12% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8eb57469-3afe-4976-bc84-e763c240cb49 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 4651A82E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 21 May 2007 10:09:54 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Also, as a secondary thought, try 'Shuttle, Spindle & Dyepot' - the one I have has a nice, albeit small, article on the fabric of an old kimono - how the fabric was woven and what they used to dye it, etc etc, etc. Of course my mag is old, and it might have changed it's focus. Katheryne ----- Original Message ----- > hello folks, > > > > The local art Museum is putting together a Kimono show next year. I'm working on their request for a list of magazines to advertise it in and/or send anouncements to. They asked for magazines on Japan. I'm also going to give them textiles, & fiberart. So, what magazines do you think they should hear about? > > > > Just off the top of my head: > > Fiberarts > > Threads > > Sew News > > Flying Needle > > Orient Express > > Oriental Art > > Japan Plus > > Japan Journal > > any number of museum related mags, which they probably know better than I do > > > > I'm hoping for you to give me relatively less well known > historical society & hobbyist titles. So what do you read, that prints > > listings of museum exhibits? > > > > Thanks! > >Mary Piero Carey _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 21 11:23:30 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LFNSMI003500 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 11:23:28 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4LFNDq7024502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 May 2007 11:23:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4LFMCwh037683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 May 2007 09:22:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LFM3Qh074565; Mon, 21 May 2007 09:22:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from flpi101.sbcis.sbc.com (flpi101.sbcis.sbc.com [207.115.20.70]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LFLxF1074405 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 09:22:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) X-ORBL: [75.46.13.190] Received: from [75.46.13.190] (adsl-75-46-13-190.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net [75.46.13.190]) by flpi101.sbcis.sbc.com (8.13.8 out.dk.spool/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4LFLD1G027617 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 08:21:14 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <464C54A40200005E0001E2DD@AZ_AWINDO1_INET3.awin.com> References: <200705171800.l4HI0BGx008155@net.indra.com> <464C54A40200005E0001E2DD@AZ_AWINDO1_INET3.awin.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 11:21:47 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 74b326bb-8c7d-4fed-be23-922d2eb9e6c9 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 4651B962.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 21 May 2007 11:23:17 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Janet Arnold shows several hats in her Patterns of Fashion (1560-1620) that have stiffened felt as an understructure. She also mentions the possibility of pasted paper (basically papier mache), which is likely what was used to stiffen the crescents at the fronts of French hoods in addition to the wire structure. Melanie Schuessler On May 17, 2007, at 4:12 PM, Tori Ruhl wrote: > > > I've heard people talk about making hats out of theatrical buckram. > But I didn't think that Buckram, as we know it, existed in the 16th > century. If not, then what DID exist as "Buckram"? What were the > internal structure of hats made out of? > I've seen the wire frame for the gabled hood at the V&A, but there > had to have been more to the support structure than just wires. > > Any input, sources, opinions...etc. are greatly appreciated. > > - Tori > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 21 15:21:39 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LJLbCM015724 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 15:21:37 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4LJLNUO013339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 May 2007 15:21:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4LJJHTG076045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 May 2007 13:19:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LJJC51010243; Mon, 21 May 2007 13:19:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from barra1.swissinfo.org (barra1.barra.srg.ch [146.159.6.75]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LJJ8ug010094 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 13:19:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from swissgirl@swissinfo.org) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1179775141-3f50000c0000-L6CAXr X-Barracuda-URL: http://146.159.6.75:8000/cgi-bin/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Connect: kuma.sri.ch[194.6.181.33] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1179775141 X-ASG-Whitelist: Sender Received: from mail.swissinfo.org (kuma.sri.ch [194.6.181.33]) by barra1.swissinfo.org (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id 29A9D6AF86 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 21:19:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from compaqub (24.216.120.37) by mail.swissinfo.org (7.2.064.1) (authenticated as swissgirl) id 45DAE0BC03A96D7A for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 21 May 2007 20:58:40 +0200 Message-ID: <005a01c79bda$1c939bc0$dd00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200705171800.l4HI0BGx008155@net.indra.com><464C54A40200005E0001E2DD@AZ_AWINDO1_INET3.awin.com> X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 13:58:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Barracuda-Virus-Scanned: by Barracuda Spam Firewall at swissinfo.org X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2b5da572-482d-4d68-8741-1a87fff282c4 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 4651F133.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 21 May 2007 15:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- > On May 17, 2007, at 4:12 PM, Tori Ruhl wrote: >> I've heard people talk about making hats out of theatrical buckram. But >> I didn't think that Buckram, as we know it, existed in the 16th century. >> If not, then what DID exist as "Buckram"? What were the internal >> structure of hats made out of? Along with "bokeram" and the other things recently mentioned, there's also vellum. For that matter, my local leather store sells something I can't remember the name of that's very hard, about 1/4"+ thick, and looks strangely like translucent fiberglass (but is some form of leather). You could CARVE a hat out of that stuff. Melanie, do you have any idea how the felt was stiffened? I have a big bag full of wool dryer lint I've been meaning to experiment with, and an even bigger bag of teeny tiny wool scraps... -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 21 15:35:59 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LJZxGE016473 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 15:35:59 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4LJZii5021824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 May 2007 15:35:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4LJYZnk078906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 May 2007 13:34:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LJYY2k026112; Mon, 21 May 2007 13:34:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s22.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s22.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.158]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LJYSGa025911 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 13:34:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.154.120]) by bay0-omc2-s22.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Mon, 21 May 2007 12:34:22 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 21 May 2007 12:34:22 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.55.154.123 by by143fd.bay143.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 21 May 2007 19:34:18 GMT X-Originating-IP: [69.92.75.246] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <005a01c79bda$1c939bc0$dd00a8c0@compaqub> From: "Becky Rautine" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 15:34:18 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 May 2007 19:34:22.0737 (UTC) FILETIME=[08956810:01C79BDF] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 64b72b13-aa03-4ee0-bea0-b0e0ff311d34 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 4651F490.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 21 May 2007 15:35:48 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I think that any hat that is felted is so densely felted together that it is very durable. I don't know of any solution that makes a hat stiff. Must be one though. Sincerely, Rebecca Rautine From: "E House" Reply-To: Historical Costume To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 13:58:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from www1.indra.com ([209.169.0.7]) by bay0-mc3-f5.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Mon, 21 May 2007 12:22:18 -0700 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4LJJkO2076132(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK);Mon, 21 May 2007 13:19:46 -0600 (MDT)(envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LJJC53010243;Mon, 21 May 2007 13:19:31 -0600 (MDT)(envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from barra1.swissinfo.org (barra1.barra.srg.ch [146.159.6.75])by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LJJ8ug010094for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 13:19:11 -0600 (MDT)(envelope-from swissgirl@swissinfo.org) Received: from mail.swissinfo.org (kuma.sri.ch [194.6.181.33])by barra1.swissinfo.org (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id 29A9D6AF86for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 21:19:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from compaqub (24.216.120.37) by mail.swissinfo.org (7.2.064.1)(authenticated as swissgirl)id 45DAE0BC03A96D7A for h-costume@indra.com;Mon, 21 May 2007 20:58:40 +0200 X-Message-Info: LsUYwwHHNt1Xz5Yksrj7t+8Fi0486Rg+YdA0ulY/o1OEesyJ+NT73bwHtJM+LZ2M X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1179775141-3f50000c0000-L6CAXr X-Barracuda-URL: http://146.159.6.75:8000/cgi-bin/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Connect: kuma.sri.ch[194.6.181.33] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1179775141 X-ASG-Whitelist: Sender References: <200705171800.l4HI0BGx008155@net.indra.com><464C54A40200005E0001E2DD@AZ_AWINDO1_INET3.awin.com> X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Barracuda-Virus-Scanned: by Barracuda Spam Firewall at swissinfo.org X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Return-Path: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 May 2007 19:22:19.0056 (UTC) FILETIME=[593C7300:01C79BDD] ----- Original Message ----- >On May 17, 2007, at 4:12 PM, Tori Ruhl wrote: >>I've heard people talk about making hats out of theatrical buckram. But I >>didn't think that Buckram, as we know it, existed in the 16th century. If >>not, then what DID exist as "Buckram"? What were the internal structure >>of hats made out of? Along with "bokeram" and the other things recently mentioned, there's also vellum. For that matter, my local leather store sells something I can't remember the name of that's very hard, about 1/4"+ thick, and looks strangely like translucent fiberglass (but is some form of leather). You could CARVE a hat out of that stuff. Melanie, do you have any idea how the felt was stiffened? I have a big bag full of wool dryer lint I've been meaning to experiment with, and an even bigger bag of teeny tiny wool scraps... -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Like the way Microsoft Office Outlook works? You’ll love Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_outlook_0507 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 21 15:41:12 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LJfCMb016702 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 15:41:12 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4LJewEq009187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 May 2007 15:41:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4LJeBA8080003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 May 2007 13:40:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LJe8Yq031828; Mon, 21 May 2007 13:40:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LJe0tk031575 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 13:40:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=rkH/33gPFUw8SCN5K/5A2UKKp+N53Tn7B441Nhasvr1j/DTfJHUFUdWatZv/AEEq; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.100.124.32] (helo=boris) by elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HqDjX-00054O-0C for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 21 May 2007 15:39:55 -0400 Message-ID: <022c01c79be0$e1026a80$0200a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 12:47:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd48a5737342e67fc54a68d7bfe00382eec74e7a3108705b577b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.100.124.32 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: bbd0bde2-7833-4b9e-95f3-b3fa45d42846 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4651F5CA.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 21 May 2007 15:41:01 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > I think that any hat that is felted is so densely felted together that it > is very durable. I don't know of any solution that makes a hat stiff. Must > be one though. > Sincerely, > Rebecca Rautine You can use hide glue to stiffen felt or buckram. Hatmakers also use thinned shelac to stiffen and waterproof felt hats. Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 21 16:16:38 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LKGcxd018309 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 16:16:38 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4LKGM8B021664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 May 2007 16:16:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4LKFnYL086067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 May 2007 14:15:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LKFjgx065811; Mon, 21 May 2007 14:15:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.64]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4L4NwI5069539 for ; Sun, 20 May 2007 22:23:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=radiks.net; b=tq0wm2c/KoCEEvuXO9Na98Hfjb9oJEb6uAH6briJHyC8keB1niHZi5g3kfv4HF9+; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [69.81.2.225] (helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HpzR2-00069b-Jl for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 21 May 2007 00:23:52 -0400 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20070520231326.0328c050@pop.radiks.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 23:18:10 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200705181800.l4II07Np090489@net.indra.com> References: <200705181800.l4II07Np090489@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-ELNK-Trace: 4dc586d4c2c509b54091741908ea4e530e74e32b2412d3e6b0410fac0e9a036a2cf1aefa69560284350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.81.2.225 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Rings for costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 3cd27e52-05d1-45f4-99ff-ae5eb177c187 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4651FE16.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 21 May 2007 16:16:27 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Also, look in a store that sells cake decorating supplies - they often have bags of "wedding bands" that can be put on cakes. They are metal, but very lightweight, and can be bent to any size. They are really cheap (like a bag of 50 for a couple dollars). They look ok even at a fairly short distance and if they break, well, you've got a whole bag of them. HTH, Sandy At 01:00 PM 5/18/2007, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 20:31:24 +1000 >From: "Elizabeth Walpole" > > I'm also keeping an eye out for a plain >gold 'wedding' ring when I go shopping, but I don't think the prospects are >that good (most of that cheap plastic stuff is designed for little girls and >I don't have small enough hands to get away with them). > >Elizabeth "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 21 16:25:24 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LKPMLV018555 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 16:25:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4LKP8Cp000625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 May 2007 16:25:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4LKKVs6087245 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 May 2007 14:20:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LKKUCZ071398; Mon, 21 May 2007 14:20:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from flpi101.sbcis.sbc.com (flpi101.sbcis.sbc.com [207.115.20.70]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LFGeKY068991 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 09:16:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) X-ORBL: [75.46.13.190] Received: from [75.46.13.190] (adsl-75-46-13-190.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net [75.46.13.190]) by flpi101.sbcis.sbc.com (8.13.8 out.dk.spool/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4LFFrmE009345 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 08:15:54 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <73fb7a5f0705171504p3c5e8811v32f6ce2470c3c5ed@mail.gmail.com> References: <200705171800.l4HI0BGx008155@net.indra.com> <464C54A40200005E0001E2DD@AZ_AWINDO1_INET3.awin.com> <73fb7a5f0705171504p3c5e8811v32f6ce2470c3c5ed@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 11:16:26 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: d825a4b9-1b35-46a4-8e90-7a075e39061b X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 46520024.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 21 May 2007 16:25:12 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On May 17, 2007, at 6:04 PM, michaela de bruce wrote: >> I've heard people talk about making hats out of theatrical >> buckram. But I didn't think that Buckram, as we know it, existed >> in the 16th century. If not, then what DID exist as "Buckram"? >> What were the internal structure of hats made out of? > > As far as I can tell there is buckram (buckeram, bokeram etc) which is > a linen cloth and then there is stiffened buckram (buckeram, bokeram > etc) which is stiffened with glue in much the same way as modern > buckram is. There is probably a difference in glue type and weave > though;) John Oldland, in a paper on the medieval woolen industry in England that he just gave at the International Congress on Medieval Studies, mentions buckram as a type of cheap woolen fabric. Do you have a reference from the 16th century that points to buckram as a fabric stiffened with glue? I'd be very interested. Thanks, Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 21 18:50:02 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LMo2xN024691 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 18:50:02 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4LMnlxE008003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 May 2007 18:49:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4LMlF3k009332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 May 2007 16:47:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LMlArZ002608; Mon, 21 May 2007 16:47:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.172]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LMl8lt002567 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 16:47:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from michaela.de.bruce@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id k40so66469ugc for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 15:47:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=k5RET5GT3k/NFJz/CNkbk9tg213bOcro7x7gM6AxgOEqJe8xSbvtwYOxBOtb3uap4h9Y6mwf8dh7COoLoF1xE1LyniiPI16K3yB0JN2tJIYRbtDNiNzqZZA263myA33P0TLR+RZAxgdaJpCr8iPCvCXXSakIyzmehCw3m3gnjWM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=rDha1kPF+29Mtri9yU34X3LMRHKnJ3Y8JTLxcfwqAPkcW5nr6b2YbORkG5sqXk51iO1SckS4+PsbjWHf0Kgy8QdtKLFK4HTl//KLLo+wK/O3JLF3eipHNmVxbMg5uZoGrdnqUi4QTrfUhx6xNoJ15xWfaDGaN0NC/BefwhW+pZs= Received: by 10.78.201.2 with SMTP id y2mr1273288huf.1179787627351; Mon, 21 May 2007 15:47:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.157.12 with HTTP; Mon, 21 May 2007 15:47:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <73fb7a5f0705211547q53d7221cm1ddfa19433f0201d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 10:47:07 +1200 From: "michaela de bruce" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200705171800.l4HI0BGx008155@net.indra.com> <464C54A40200005E0001E2DD@AZ_AWINDO1_INET3.awin.com> <73fb7a5f0705171504p3c5e8811v32f6ce2470c3c5ed@mail.gmail.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=12% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 23a7b2ae-14b4-4edf-b247-1a9e98564109 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 4652220B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 21 May 2007 18:49:51 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > John Oldland, in a paper on the medieval woolen industry in England > that he just gave at the International Congress on Medieval Studies, > mentions buckram as a type of cheap woolen fabric. I would be a bit surprised that buckram was wool in the 16thcC, especially given how often it was used to line gowns of an equivalent nature and similar time frame to those extant items lined in linen and silk in Patterns of Fashion. That said if he was doing research of a much earlier period (as indicated by the event he spoke at) I can see how the term would change over time and it would be interesting to track the changes over time and to find out when it came to mean a glue stiffened material only. > Do you have a reference from the 16th century that points to buckram > as a fabric stiffened with glue? I'd be very interested. Queen Mary's wardrobe accounts apparently mentions use of a paste buckram, it's listed in The Tudor Tailor with that reference. I tried searching Drea Leeds searchable version but it only lists buckram for the same item not that it is stiffened with paste. I wrote that it appears to have been specified when it was stiffened with glue as opposed to not, not that it was always a stiffened material. Sorry if that was a little unclear. http://books.google.com/books?id=W0elW6Yvji0C&pg=PA84&dq=past+buckeram http://books.google.com/books?id=ItsuAAAAMAAJ&pg=PR106&dq=Queen+Mary+wardrobe I'm having a hunt through these two, paste board is mentioned in the Revels books as well as fine black buckram. It also lists cotton and linen for lining so I would suppose buckram is a very specific kind of weave/weight/treatment etc. A lot of the buckram mentioned in the revels is bought in pieces too and in another book used for escuncheons while paste board was used for stars for decoration. http://books.google.com/books?id=ATISAAAAIAAJ&q=past+buckeram&dq=past+buckeram&pgis=1 Wow the revels book even specifies 56, 000 spangles used in one revel.... blimey. And now I'm going mad downloading these books to read at leisure over the next week or so when I can't be online too often. Oh one more: http://books.google.com/books?id=3X4Iybgb0BEC&pg=PA192&dq=bokeram Bokeram; Buckram a description of making it is in MS Sloan 73, f. 214 So that might be worthwhile looking up as well. I did a google search for it but couldn't find anything leading directly to it but it is probably in the British Library. Michaela de Bruce http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 21 19:20:51 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LNKpma026106 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 19:20:51 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4LNKaiH019091 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 May 2007 19:20:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4LNJSCD013275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 May 2007 17:19:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LNJNtO026511; Mon, 21 May 2007 17:19:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s14.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s14.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.150]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LNJKS2026409 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 17:19:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.11]) by bay0-omc2-s14.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Mon, 21 May 2007 16:19:15 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 21 May 2007 16:19:15 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 209.180.136.218 by BAY133-DAV1.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 21 May 2007 23:19:12 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [209.180.136.218] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200705171800.l4HI0BGx008155@net.indra.com><464C54A40200005E0001E2DD@AZ_AWINDO1_INET3.awin.com> <005a01c79bda$1c939bc0$dd00a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 16:19:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 21 May 2007 16:19:26 -0700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 May 2007 23:19:15.0146 (UTC) FILETIME=[72AFA2A0:01C79BFE] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c1e17312-39f4-4c78-bde1-78b065ec48ec X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 46522945.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 21 May 2007 19:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO That would be rawhide. They even wrap saddle trees in that stuff! ----- Original Message -----=20 From: E House=20 To: Historical Costume=20 Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats ----- Original Message -----=20 For that matter, my local leather store sells something I can't=20 remember the name of that's very hard, about 1/4"+ thick, and looks=20 strangely like translucent fiberglass (but is some form of leather). = You=20 could CARVE a hat out of that stuff. -E House=20 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com = http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 21 19:28:46 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LNSkld026497 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 19:28:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4LNSVEu021152 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 May 2007 19:28:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4LNRtRG014571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 May 2007 17:27:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LNRssd031886; Mon, 21 May 2007 17:27:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp2.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4LNRphk031850 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 17:27:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Message-Id: <200705212327.l4LNRphk031850@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 3940 invoked from network); 21 May 2007 16:27:51 -0700 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 3410, pid: 3916, t: 4.5388s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:43/d:3123 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.102) by qsmtp2 with SMTP; 21 May 2007 16:27:46 -0700 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 16:24:10 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats In-Reply-To: References: <200705171800.l4HI0BGx008155@net.indra.com> <464C54A40200005E0001E2DD@AZ_AWINDO1_INET3.awin.com> <005a01c79bda$1c939bc0$dd00a8c0@compaqub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp2.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4e38baf5-7cfd-4df0-af1c-144660ff923f X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 46522B1F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 21 May 2007 19:28:35 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At 04:19 PM 5/21/2007, you wrote: >That would be rawhide. They even wrap saddle trees in that stuff! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: E House > To: Historical Costume > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 11:58 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats > > > ----- Original Message ----- > For that matter, my local leather store sells something I can't > remember the name of that's very hard, about 1/4"+ thick, and looks > strangely like translucent fiberglass (but is some form of leather). You > could CARVE a hat out of that stuff. > > > -E House You boil it until it is flexible, then mold what you need out of it. When it cools, it hardens. Stinky process, though. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 21 19:53:54 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LNrsnN027546 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 19:53:54 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4LNrdwY016500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 May 2007 19:53:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4LNqUTb017535 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 May 2007 17:52:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LNqRtL047057; Mon, 21 May 2007 17:52:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4LNqOSk047021 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 17:52:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA32210 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 18:53:49 -0500 Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 18:53:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats In-Reply-To: <73fb7a5f0705211547q53d7221cm1ddfa19433f0201d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 507747c4-df44-451c-a173-c6821791686d X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 46523104.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 21 May 2007 19:53:43 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Tue, 22 May 2007, michaela de bruce wrote: > > John Oldland, in a paper on the medieval woolen industry in England > > that he just gave at the International Congress on Medieval Studies, > > mentions buckram as a type of cheap woolen fabric. > > I would be a bit surprised that buckram was wool in the 16thcC, > especially given how often it was used to line gowns of an equivalent > nature and similar time frame to those extant items lined in linen and > silk in Patterns of Fashion. > That said if he was doing research of a much earlier period (as > indicated by the event he spoke at) I can see how the term would > change over time ... John's paper covered the 15th c. His research on the wool economy is very impressive -- he was John Munro's student and spends a lot of time in primary documents -- and I am inclined to trust his work. However, I don't remember this particular mention in his paper, as it was 20 minutes of very dense detail. (It will eventually be published, probably in an economics journal, though I wish we could get it! We do have another paper by him in the newly published volume of MC&T, though it does not mention buckram.) That said, another paper I'm editing now includes references from the Henry VIII inventory that mention quilts lined with "bockerame," and in discussions with the author we determined that the word clearly went through a number of meanings over several hundred years, given the uses in which it occurs. In the 16th c. it appears to have moved from being a fine fabric to a coarser or heavier one, and may have encompassed both those meanings simultaneously at some point. Most sources we found on 16th c. fabrics suggested it was linen or maybe cotton or maybe both. That doesn't mean the term wasn't used to mean a wool fabric in the 15th! So I think the only safe interpretation of a given reference would have to be closely focused in locale and time period. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 21 21:47:24 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4M1lOs6032671 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 21:47:24 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4M1l9rm021009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 May 2007 21:47:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4M1jro2030057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 May 2007 19:45:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4M1jo13010933; Mon, 21 May 2007 19:45:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4M1jk5H010834 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 19:45:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 798B2CFAF1 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 20:45:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <46524B47.3010407@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 20:45:43 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Somewhat OT -- Black detergent? References: <95224C16-8990-44A3-B8ED-C170A882D679@comcast.net> <464BBF43.3090906@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <464BBF43.3090906@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 25c7b1e0-7883-4d5d-b8c3-9d0c1344715d X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 46524B9D.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 21 May 2007 21:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Lavolta Press wrote: > My advice is: > > Always wash the clothes in 100% cold water, and > It might help to turn them inside out before they go in the wash, too. As clothing rubs against each other the threads in the weave break and put up tiny tufts of fiber which on black clothing can make it look grey. There are some detergents which have agents in them that "eat" these microscopic tufts of fiber and help make your clothing look new longer. However, it also eats your fabric every time you wash it, which in the long run shortens the life of the garment. And check and make sure the detergent doesn't have bleach, or bleach substitutes hidden in it. That stuff will fade clothing faster than anything. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 22 00:26:55 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4M4Qs4d008067 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 00:26:54 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4M4Qevw000848 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 May 2007 00:26:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4M4PBKO047023 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 21 May 2007 22:25:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4M4P7Eo003225; Mon, 21 May 2007 22:25:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from outC.internet-mail-service.net (outC.internet-mail-service.net [216.240.47.226]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4M4P1Mw003177 for ; Mon, 21 May 2007 22:25:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chrisber@idiom.com) Received: from mx0.idiom.com (HELO idiom.com) (216.240.32.160) by out.internet-mail-service.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Mon, 21 May 2007 21:25:00 -0700 Received: by idiom.com (Postfix, from userid 3218) id A3166125A25; Mon, 21 May 2007 21:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 21:24:59 -0700 From: Chris Bertani To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats Message-ID: <20070522042459.GC98855@idiom.com> References: <73fb7a5f0705211547q53d7221cm1ddfa19433f0201d@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 6f6b4000-1a9f-458d-9be9-6609e4150a6c X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 46527100.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 22 May 2007 00:26:44 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On 21 May 2007, Robin Netherton wrote: > On Tue, 22 May 2007, michaela de bruce wrote: > > > John Oldland, in a paper on the medieval woolen industry in England > > > that he just gave at the International Congress on Medieval Studies, > > > mentions buckram as a type of cheap woolen fabric. > > > > I would be a bit surprised that buckram was wool in the 16thcC, > > especially given how often it was used to line gowns of an equivalent > > nature and similar time frame to those extant items lined in linen and > > silk in Patterns of Fashion. > > That said if he was doing research of a much earlier period (as > > indicated by the event he spoke at) I can see how the term would > > change over time ... > > John's paper covered the 15th c. His research on the wool economy is very > impressive -- he was John Munro's student and spends a lot of time in > primary documents -- and I am inclined to trust his work. I don't know how useful this is, but in Shakespeare's King Henry IV part 1, act 2, scene 4, buckram suits are mentioned: FALSTAFF Nay, that's past praying for: I have peppered two of them; two I am sure I have paid, two rogues in buckram suits. I tell thee what, Hal, if I tell thee a lie, spit in my face, call me horse. Thou knowest my old ward; here I lay and thus I bore my point. Four rogues in buckram let drive at me-- -- Chris Bertani www.goblinrevolution.org/costumes _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 22 09:59:51 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MDxmLU004796 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 09:59:49 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4MDxYKH026421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 May 2007 09:59:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4MDuIUf008848 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 22 May 2007 07:56:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MDuDHu015008; Tue, 22 May 2007 07:56:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from flpvm09.prodigy.net (flpvm09.prodigy.net [207.115.20.39]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MDu8xr014886 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 07:56:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) X-ORBL: [75.46.186.222] Received: from [75.46.186.222] (adsl-75-46-186-222.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net [75.46.186.222]) by flpvm09.prodigy.net (8.13.8 out.dk.spool/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4MDu1Ih016102 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 06:56:01 -0700 In-Reply-To: <005a01c79bda$1c939bc0$dd00a8c0@compaqub> References: <200705171800.l4HI0BGx008155@net.indra.com><464C54A40200005E0001E2DD@AZ_AWINDO1_INET3.awin.com> <005a01c79bda$1c939bc0$dd00a8c0@compaqub> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 09:55:50 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9cacad7a-a707-40b2-9fe2-af57547c651c X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4652F746.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 22 May 2007 09:59:38 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On May 21, 2007, at 2:58 PM, E House wrote: > > Melanie, do you have any idea how the felt was stiffened? I have a > big bag full of wool dryer lint I've been meaning to experiment > with, and an even bigger bag of teeny tiny wool scraps... Arnold doesn't say, and I'm afraid I have no idea--sorry. Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 22 10:29:34 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4METYNE006728 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 10:29:34 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4METJBm024098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 May 2007 10:29:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4MESSaQ013532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 22 May 2007 08:28:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MESEuG041728; Tue, 22 May 2007 08:28:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from flpi102.sbcis.sbc.com (flpi102.sbcis.sbc.com [207.115.20.71]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MESA9I041625 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 08:28:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) X-ORBL: [75.46.186.222] Received: from [75.46.186.222] (adsl-75-46-186-222.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net [75.46.186.222]) by flpi102.sbcis.sbc.com (8.13.8 out.dk.spool/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4MERww3030679 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 07:27:58 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <73fb7a5f0705211547q53d7221cm1ddfa19433f0201d@mail.gmail.com> References: <200705171800.l4HI0BGx008155@net.indra.com> <464C54A40200005E0001E2DD@AZ_AWINDO1_INET3.awin.com> <73fb7a5f0705171504p3c5e8811v32f6ce2470c3c5ed@mail.gmail.com> <73fb7a5f0705211547q53d7221cm1ddfa19433f0201d@mail.gmail.com> Message-Id: <6C410DBD-B000-4488-9347-ABF3A37E0071@faucet.net> From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 10:27:54 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9695cdc4-9e97-4caa-a50c-197fa903a2bc X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4652FE40.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 22 May 2007 10:29:23 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On May 21, 2007, at 6:47 PM, michaela de bruce wrote: > I wrote that it appears to have been specified when it was stiffened > with glue as opposed to not, not that it was always a stiffened > material. Sorry if that was a little unclear. It was clear. I was just hoping for a reference for a stiffened =20 buckram. It seems likely that there was such a thing, but I haven't =20 yet come across a reference that would certainly establish it. > > http://books.google.com/books?id=3DW0elW6Yvji0C&pg=3DPA84&dq=3Dpast+buck= eram > http://books.google.com/books?id=3DItsuAAAAMAAJ&pg=3DPR106&dq=3DQueen+Ma= ry=20 > +wardrobe > I'm having a hunt through these two, paste board is mentioned in the > Revels books as well as fine black buckram. Paste board was made of paper, so that's a different thing. > A lot of the buckram mentioned in the revels is bought in pieces too Buckram seems to have been used frequently for theatrical purposes. =20 Henslowe's diary lists several costumes for his theatre made of buckram: iij fares gowne of buckrome (from =93The Enventary of the Clownes =20 Sewtes and Hermetes Sewtes, with dievers other sewtes, as followeth, =20 1598, the 10 of March.=94) Layed owt for the companye the 9 of novmb3 1602 to by ij calleco =20 sewtes & ij buckerom sewte for the playe of cryssmas comes but once a yeare the some of xxxviijs 8d Lent vnto wm kempe the 22 of aguste 1602 to bye buckram to macke a =20 payer of gyente hosse the some of vs Lent vnto the company the 1 of septmb3 1601 to bye blacke buckrome to =20= macke a sewte for a fyer drack in the 3 pt of thome strowde the some of iij s vj d He also lists several pawned items as having arrived in buckram bags. > Oh one more: > http://books.google.com/books?id=3D3X4Iybgb0BEC&pg=3DPA192&dq=3Dbokeram > Bokeram; Buckram a description of making it is in MS Sloan 73, f. 214 > So that might be worthwhile looking up as well. I did a google search > for it but couldn't find anything leading directly to it but it is > probably in the British Library. That sounds very interesting! Furnivall seems to have published part =20= of it as the "Book of Quinte Essence," but it doesn't contain the =20 relevant bit. Melanie= _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 22 10:55:34 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MEtWqD008336 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 10:55:32 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4MEtIVO010012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 May 2007 10:55:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4MEmCxq017219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 22 May 2007 08:48:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MEmA6t058702; Tue, 22 May 2007 08:48:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from flpvm23.prodigy.net (flpvm23.prodigy.net [207.115.20.53]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MEcMQD050306 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 08:38:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) X-ORBL: [75.46.186.222] Received: from [75.46.186.222] (adsl-75-46-186-222.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net [75.46.186.222]) by flpvm23.prodigy.net (8.13.8 out.dk.spool/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4MEcRXD020451 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 07:38:28 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <268D9172-04CE-48DF-9F60-F1BFAB78885F@faucet.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 10:38:05 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: d90d332b-ee25-4b89-a6c0-196ee90fd724 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 46530456.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 22 May 2007 10:55:21 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On May 21, 2007, at 7:53 PM, Robin Netherton wrote: > > John's paper covered the 15th c. His research on the wool economy > is very > impressive -- he was John Munro's student and spends a lot of time in > primary documents -- and I am inclined to trust his work. However, > I don't > remember this particular mention in his paper, as it was 20 minutes of > very dense detail. It caught my ear, as we had talked about buckram before, and I asked him for a copy of the paper, which he very kindly sent me. > That said, another paper I'm editing now includes references from the > Henry VIII inventory that mention quilts lined with "bockerame," > and in > discussions with the author we determined that the word clearly went > through a number of meanings over several hundred years, given the > uses in > which it occurs. In the 16th c. it appears to have moved from being > a fine > fabric to a coarser or heavier one, and may have encompassed both > those > meanings simultaneously at some point. Most sources we found on > 16th c. > fabrics suggested it was linen or maybe cotton or maybe both. That > doesn't > mean the term wasn't used to mean a wool fabric in the 15th! So I > think > the only safe interpretation of a given reference would have to be > closely > focused in locale and time period. Yes, I must agree. Linthicum lists a reference to buckram being cotton as early as 1295. (In that context--from the eastern travels of Marco Polo--it probably was what we would call cotton, though sometimes the word cotton was used to refer to a woolen fabric in late medieval western Europe.) She also has a shirt of buckram from 1537, probably linen, and buckram hose for a man in 1522, possibly wool. I guess my point in mentioning Oldland's reference was cautionary-- that this word had different meanings and shouldn't be assumed as one thing or another. I should have said that at the time. Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 22 15:29:20 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MJTK5n022145 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 15:29:20 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4MJT5h8019146 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 May 2007 15:29:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4MJRLei061864 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 22 May 2007 13:27:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MJRFZl025139; Tue, 22 May 2007 13:27:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep30.mail.dk (fep30.mail.dk [80.160.76.194]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MJR85k024935 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 13:27:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep47.mail.dk ([195.41.46.230]) by fep30.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070522192700.BCMB1221.fep30.mail.dk@fep47.mail.dk> for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 21:27:00 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.164.110.157]) by fep47.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070522192700.DRRM20303.fep47.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 21:27:00 +0200 Message-ID: <001901c79ca7$3dead4a0$9d6ea450@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats/buckram Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 21:27:29 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep47.mail.dk from [80.164.110.157] at Tue, 22 May 2007 21:26:55 +0200 X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=29% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a15bca50-6300-49a9-80ad-2cecfdd5889f X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 46534481.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 22 May 2007 15:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi folks, Isnt it strange but i cant find a danish word for Buckram, i have even asked reenactors, and nobody knows. Most annoying!!! Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 22 18:00:03 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MM03CR028338 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 18:00:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4MLxnRn025263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 May 2007 17:59:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4MLweXX095086 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 22 May 2007 15:58:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MLwZTm062080; Tue, 22 May 2007 15:58:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MLwWt2062051 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 15:58:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [209.148.118.140] (209-148-118-140.dial.dynamic.sonic.net [209.148.118.140]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l4MLwUxM014325 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 14:58:31 -0700 Message-ID: <4653678C.9030109@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 14:58:36 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 6fa0e528-c8d4-4f8e-a158-1461d8303e77 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 465367D5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 22 May 2007 17:59:53 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Any advice on how to dye an ivory colored, modern, machine knitted 100% wool turtleneck sweater some less boring but solid color, without felting it or otherwise damaging the texture? The heat and agitation in most dye instructions, even those for wool, makes me very antsy. I'm not really into dyeing or working with wool, but I got this sweater for Christmas years ago, have never worn it because it's boring, and have decided I might as well dye it. If it works, I have a nice-quality ivory 1950s cashmere cardigan I'd like to do next. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 22 18:18:52 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MMIqZk028777 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 18:18:52 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4MMIbHA010367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 May 2007 18:18:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4MMI4XH097894 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 22 May 2007 16:18:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MMI2kx077561; Tue, 22 May 2007 16:18:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from S4.cableone.net (s4.cableone.net [24.116.0.230]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MMHtH6077401 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 16:17:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from anteckim (unverified [24.119.254.13]) by S4.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S4) with ESMTP id 108820291 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 15:17:49 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" References: <4653678C.9030109@lavoltapress.com> Subject: RE: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:17:34 -0500 Message-ID: <00eb01c79cbf$00544dc0$bb00a8c0@anteckim> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: <4653678C.9030109@lavoltapress.com> Thread-Index: AcecvfqSz+ORN48ZTZyLCTSf55JWMwAANcIQ X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 1, First 48, in=56, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 24.119.254.13 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4d4ee0b0-198a-4ec4-ae22-54f99c38766e X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 46536C3D.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 22 May 2007 18:18:41 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Fran-- You can dye wool with Procion MX cold water dyes. You won't need heat, just enough agitation to make sure it dyes evenly . Kim Get them from www.dharmatrading.com -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Lavolta Press Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 4:59 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater Any advice on how to dye an ivory colored, modern, machine knitted 100% wool turtleneck sweater some less boring but solid color, without felting it or otherwise damaging the texture? The heat and agitation in most dye instructions, even those for wool, makes me very antsy. I'm not really into dyeing or working with wool, but I got this sweater for Christmas years ago, have never worn it because it's boring, and have decided I might as well dye it. If it works, I have a nice-quality ivory 1950s cashmere cardigan I'd like to do next. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 22 18:33:18 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MMXHT7029209 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 18:33:18 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4MMX305008215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 May 2007 18:33:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4MMWY5D099511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 22 May 2007 16:32:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MMWUD7089037; Tue, 22 May 2007 16:32:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32214.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32214.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.145]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4MMWQdD088910 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 16:32:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sstormwatch@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 58031 invoked by uid 60001); 22 May 2007 22:32:21 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=SpBeyBukguu0bNnYPYAi3N1wLTmc0sar2OiHscxXjBLOGSzfov+Bq3wlfl/U0dXG6sr+p27WZkQWwdPywdSZzkXx4NUqlEiZWy/RlRs39PoxIhlRdHHe1RjybQpblv4UU6Dj3pSNBQ+HkTVfmNIcl8qJ+ffcJk7X/qo2y5S+W9g=; X-YMail-OSG: egOrjlsVM1kkZUPEbz04I7mfqZTEhJNVONMYhJSGc7EX7_.Kq9nve9GYnLnKh6M3WnD6FSFJ3tkZgsFssy0WTmjIo4Wjl_pR61_6ioNbyw95VRzG.EQiFWqbyAI4Ig-- Received: from [129.8.204.63] by web32214.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 22 May 2007 15:32:21 PDT Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 15:32:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4653678C.9030109@lavoltapress.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <698221.57789.qm@web32214.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=12% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: e0c4609e-7156-48ac-8355-3b6763d687cd X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46536F9F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 22 May 2007 18:33:07 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi Fran, I have dyed wool yarns before, handspun stuff, with both chemical and natural dyes, and helped with one wool jacket, so I can offer a little advice. But others may have much better advice than I. While it does take hot water to dye the garment, it is the agitation, and the shock of hot, or even cold water that will felt wool. First start with a newly cleaned sweater, that can be done in cool water, let me amend that, water that is room temperature, and well rinsed, with minimal movement. Then take the wet sweater and put it into a very large pot, preferably all steel or enameled, that is large enough for the sweater and the water needed to cover with room for stirring. Add cool water, that should match the temp of the sweater. Again this is to avoid the shock to the wool. Put the pot on the stove, then slowly bring the water to high enough temp to dye with (this depends on the dye you use, check directions for temp needed). Using a stir stick (that you can toss, since it will get dyed, unless it is steel or glass or something like that), move the sweater out of the way, and add in your dyes, and any other chemicals needed, per the dye directions. Stir the sweater gently but frequently so that the dye disperses throughout the pot, as you don't want streaks. Continue to stir the length of time needed for the dye, which also depends on how deep a color you want. Once you get a color deeper than you want, since wet color is darker than when the garment is dry, remove the pot from the heat. Allow the wool to remain in the pot for several hours or overnight, as the temp naturally falls. When the water is again room temp, carefully dump the remaining dye down the drain (again check your dye for disposal needs). Fill the pot with room temp water, and rinse several times until the water runs clear. Now, there's no guarantee that this will not shrink the wool, as that's a matter of the kind of wool that was used, if it was already preshrunk, if it was tightly finished, or chemically finished, or anything else for that matter. I've had some yarns not shrink at all, and some yarns shrink a lot. The jacket I helped with did shrink, but that was the chance my friend took. Good luck! Kimiko --- Lavolta Press wrote: > Any advice on how to dye an ivory colored, modern, > machine knitted 100% > wool turtleneck sweater some less boring but solid > color, without > felting it or otherwise damaging the texture? The > heat and agitation in > most dye instructions, even those for wool, makes me > very antsy. I'm > not really into dyeing or working with wool, but I > got this sweater for > Christmas years ago, have never worn it because it's > boring, and have > decided I might as well dye it. If it works, I have > a nice-quality > ivory 1950s cashmere cardigan I'd like to do next. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 22 18:55:04 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MMt3a1029741 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 18:55:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4MMsnLc024067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 May 2007 18:54:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4MMruGg002288 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 22 May 2007 16:53:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MMrsiP006245; Tue, 22 May 2007 16:53:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.170]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MMrpYT006216 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 16:53:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from michaela.de.bruce@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id k40so387026ugc for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 15:53:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ZGEtFqokbeMixIESRaaUY9s0+CXsnr8OEynA6sFHHycpot2Vk8BhzGbQDIRv6HbaqaBXkOqOeQHJi7vNzG5SJXbMnzp+6Lfosifwcg8EQncO7GpgAFmezctUFLmBvNrJBw7+dTU73/DakL5xYJmTLc4uxc27MCgCWhBuoW1Vyko= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=mMnA7+41EllNoOLnmrgVGr5KgiHd/aqm/ystxEDZKRYTHIeld1AASOHvya4SxtEXM+Z4ZUs0yZQ58/GGBJcv2qwHxg9Sglrufgsq32fvwuSqpotMPXRf56o/CJOlwXNmZz3Q/zRdE+OAUMigeJ8s4hcIzisbNqIItyfBA10HC5k= Received: by 10.78.187.17 with SMTP id k17mr257195huf.1179873831319; Tue, 22 May 2007 15:43:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.157.12 with HTTP; Tue, 22 May 2007 15:43:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <73fb7a5f0705221543n7872a198g5d7a62d31942f931@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 10:43:51 +1200 From: "michaela de bruce" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats In-Reply-To: <6C410DBD-B000-4488-9347-ABF3A37E0071@faucet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200705171800.l4HI0BGx008155@net.indra.com> <464C54A40200005E0001E2DD@AZ_AWINDO1_INET3.awin.com> <73fb7a5f0705171504p3c5e8811v32f6ce2470c3c5ed@mail.gmail.com> <73fb7a5f0705211547q53d7221cm1ddfa19433f0201d@mail.gmail.com> <6C410DBD-B000-4488-9347-ABF3A37E0071@faucet.net> X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=14% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 349db9f6-d2ef-4dc3-9ec2-e02c31e06df5 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 465374B9.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 22 May 2007 18:54:53 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > It was clear. I was just hoping for a reference for a stiffened > buckram. It seems likely that there was such a thing, but I haven't > yet come across a reference that would certainly establish it. Queen Mary's Wardrobe accounts, I'm not sure it that is the book I listed (privy purse accounts for her as a princess and maybe later) or if there was a seperate book of just her wardrobe. I'm going to be looking through the privy purse accounts. past buckram is definitely mentioned, I wonder if there are any more.. I was wrong too! It's not for a farthingale, I think I remembered that because I thought it would be most odd to have a farthingale stiffened with glue) it's for a collar of a loose gown "..the collar lined with past buckram" 1558 Some of the texts I mentioned last time spelt paste as past too. I think all of them actually;) > Paste board was made of paper, so that's a different thing. True but: when they are used for a similar item they may have similar properties, though I can see buckram (if it is stiffened) having an edge when it comes to curved shapes. The texts didn't specify paste, so perhaps the context was enough to diferenciate buckram from glued buckram, or the buckram bought was later glued, or the buckram was used unglued. Oh and of course I agree we cannot presume that our modern use of words matches up to what was used in the past and that the same word meant the same thing at all times in the past. I'd like to know what the link is between the use of the terms. Is it just and English term as well? I would like to do some hunting in texts of other lands. Michaela de Bruce http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 22 19:56:38 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MNucPs031570 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 19:56:38 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4MNuOnO021248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 May 2007 19:56:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4MNt2gm007955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 22 May 2007 17:55:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MNswJp045523; Tue, 22 May 2007 17:54:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.196]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4MNsttU045442 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 17:54:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with SMTP id <0JIG00HNRVR31EL0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 22 May 2007 19:54:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 19:54:29 -0400 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater In-reply-to: <4653678C.9030109@lavoltapress.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f89e7442-fd96-405f-b3a2-ca6af6869be2 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 46538328.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 22 May 2007 19:56:28 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Believe it or not Kool-aide works as a dye on wool. I saw it at the New York State fair a long time ago. Thre colors are bright! I am sure that using a mordent would make it more colorfast. That is all I know. Maybe someone here knows more. Monica -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Lavolta Press Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 5:59 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater Any advice on how to dye an ivory colored, modern, machine knitted 100% wool turtleneck sweater some less boring but solid color, without felting it or otherwise damaging the texture? The heat and agitation in most dye instructions, even those for wool, makes me very antsy. I'm not really into dyeing or working with wool, but I got this sweater for Christmas years ago, have never worn it because it's boring, and have decided I might as well dye it. If it works, I have a nice-quality ivory 1950s cashmere cardigan I'd like to do next. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 22 20:10:00 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4N0A0F0031944 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 20:10:00 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4N09jIh005352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 May 2007 20:09:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4N09Ss1009141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 22 May 2007 18:09:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4N09Rs7053813; Tue, 22 May 2007 18:09:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cgp.netins.net (f2phy.netins.net [167.142.229.65]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4N09Nj2053784 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 18:09:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from landofoz@netins.net) X-netINS-MPP: scanned Received: from [67.55.167.82] (account landofoz@netins.net HELO denise8541f2db) by cgpf2.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.13) with ESMTPA id 1320258718 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 22 May 2007 19:09:23 -0500 Message-ID: <018801c79cce$a3496240$52a73743@denise8541f2db> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 19:09:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5d8dc50e-174f-4e42-9810-e23488ca4577 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46538649.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 22 May 2007 20:09:49 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > Believe it or not Kool-aide works as a dye on wool. I saw it at the New > York State fair a long time ago. Thre colors are bright! I am sure that > using a mordent would make it more colorfast. That is all I know. Maybe > someone here knows more. kool-aide is an acid dye and doesn't need a mordant, on top of the fact that there isn't any mordant that can make kool-aide colorfast. Also, your dyed goods will smell like the drink mix for a long time! If you use any type of food coloring (drink mixes, easter egg dye, baking colors, etc) you will be sorry. They are not color fast. The key to even dying is movement. The method outlined by Kimiko is good up to the point where she recommends leaving the sweater in the dye bath overnight. This may result in darker spots wherever any available dye settles on the sweater. The best (most accurate) dye-bath has no available dye left at the end -- the dye pot contains what looks like clear or very slightly tinted water. Then you know you've used up all the available dye and rinsing is a much easier task. Then you just let the dye bath come to room temperature and rinse. Denise Iowa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 22 21:07:18 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4N17IQu001069 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 21:07:18 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4N173km010471 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 May 2007 21:07:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4N15bfo014436 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 22 May 2007 19:05:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4N15WXC085358; Tue, 22 May 2007 19:05:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp3.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4N15SYb085302 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 19:05:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Message-Id: <200705230105.l4N15SYb085302@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 16427 invoked from network); 22 May 2007 18:05:26 -0700 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 16172, pid: 16405, t: 4.2857s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:43/d:3122 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.102) by qsmtp3 with SMTP; 22 May 2007 18:05:21 -0700 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 18:01:46 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: RE: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater In-Reply-To: References: <4653678C.9030109@lavoltapress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp3.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1e4c3e3d-9dda-4db7-908e-c3450b5b3e6a X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 465393B7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 22 May 2007 21:07:07 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At 04:54 PM 5/22/2007, you wrote: >Believe it or not Kool-aide works as a dye on wool. I saw it at the New >York State fair a long time ago. Thre colors are bright! I am sure that >using a mordent would make it more colorfast. That is all I know. Maybe >someone here knows more. >Monica I've used Kool-Aid to dye wool. You do not need to add anything to it; I use 2 packages of unsweetened Kool-Aid to 1-1/2 ounces of wool. I would suggest the cold water dye recommended earlier. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 22 23:08:22 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4N38LA7004400 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 23:08:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4N3861e010195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 May 2007 23:08:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4N36iwT026566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 22 May 2007 21:06:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4N36eAb052962; Tue, 22 May 2007 21:06:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32211.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32211.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.142]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4N36a9B052877 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 21:06:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sstormwatch@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 19847 invoked by uid 60001); 23 May 2007 03:06:31 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=LJK1plN59UyJDkKQK6X7567mQVO5feUkEwryTvrnF4JGn4miJAPe4qyrt+E3AV6ckl2eUrne2/qVRArYKAgBAx69UPhdi6EOKdBysWEATrSdSlEVbndActUhDbGm/tmkwLnZB85ceWYjbl6dPJNQF+U98sOm2JiWUjfUfNJuqZ4=; X-YMail-OSG: 1_oxghcVM1m2Bpzo0R7mNhYWkEKmrLGcv.oxVuekoxJIDYm9LSLWjf5i_wS51EL82A-- Received: from [129.8.204.63] by web32211.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 22 May 2007 20:06:31 PDT Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 20:06:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <018801c79cce$a3496240$52a73743@denise8541f2db> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <664742.18293.qm@web32211.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=15% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c1d3899a-f34e-4715-87e9-994e060502b4 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 4653B016.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 22 May 2007 23:08:10 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Yeah, what she said. Thanks Denise, I knew I was forgetting something important. Kimiko --- Land of Oz wrote: > The key to even dying is movement. The method > outlined by Kimiko is good up > to the point where she recommends leaving the > sweater in the dye bath > overnight. This may result in darker spots wherever > any available dye > settles on the sweater. The best (most accurate) > dye-bath has no available > dye left at the end -- the dye pot contains what > looks like clear or very > slightly tinted water. Then you know you've used up > all the available dye > and rinsing is a much easier task. Then you just > let the dye bath come to > room temperature and rinse. > > Denise > Iowa ____________________________________________________________________________________ Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 23 03:26:38 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4N7QYEa005461 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 03:26:35 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4N7QK8i026192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 May 2007 03:26:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4N7N9xm052822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 23 May 2007 01:23:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4N7N176087646; Wed, 23 May 2007 01:23:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4N7Mwms087613 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 01:23:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A9F41C79029E; Wed, 23 May 2007 07:15:00 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 00:22:51 -0700 Message-ID: <001a01c79d0b$2c3a2e40$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <4653678C.9030109@lavoltapress.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 95754e2d-49d5-4a73-ab0a-6f2e40fe068a X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 4653EC9C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 23 May 2007 03:26:24 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Try Dharma Trading Company. They have lovely dyes that work in cold = water. I have used them on cotton T-shirts and the dyes stays bright and doesn't = wash out. Colors aren't muddy. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] = On Behalf Of Lavolta Press Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 2:59 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater Any advice on how to dye an ivory colored, modern, machine knitted 100%=20 wool turtleneck sweater some less boring but solid color, without=20 felting it or otherwise damaging the texture? The heat and agitation in = most dye instructions, even those for wool, makes me very antsy. I'm=20 not really into dyeing or working with wool, but I got this sweater for=20 Christmas years ago, have never worn it because it's boring, and have=20 decided I might as well dye it. If it works, I have a nice-quality=20 ivory 1950s cashmere cardigan I'd like to do next. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 23 14:25:24 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NIPNvb030981 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 14:25:23 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4NIP9wF026429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 May 2007 14:25:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4NIKPh9034739 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 23 May 2007 12:20:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NIKHkj037965; Wed, 23 May 2007 12:20:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NIKD0u037901 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 12:20:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [209.148.118.138] (209-148-118-138.dial.dynamic.sonic.net [209.148.118.138]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l4NIKBUD015324 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 11:20:12 -0700 Message-ID: <465485E1.3070309@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 11:20:17 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater References: <001a01c79d0b$2c3a2e40$0200a8c0@bob3pc> In-Reply-To: <001a01c79d0b$2c3a2e40$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 68fa207e-4614-4dd4-96f6-019f2f3d12f8 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46548705.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 23 May 2007 14:25:13 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I order from Dharma all the time. I am just having trouble reconciling the heat and agitation most wool-dyeing instructions require, with what that might do to wool, particularly wool that has already been knitted up and thefore shrinkage is an issue. Most people seem to be dyeing yarn. I like muddy colors though, and can't usually achieve them with Procion MX dyes, which I have lots of around. I know they are not officially wool dyes but people seem to use them for wook anyway. Fran Sharon Collier wrote: > Try Dharma Trading Company. They have lovely dyes that work in cold water. I > have used them on cotton T-shirts and the dyes stays bright and doesn't wash > out. Colors aren't muddy. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 23 14:35:20 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NIZJJ7031308 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 14:35:19 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4NIZ5Jm003047 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 May 2007 14:35:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4NIYZXn036447 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 23 May 2007 12:34:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NIYXZq051044; Wed, 23 May 2007 12:34:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from S3.cableone.net (s3.cableone.net [24.116.0.229]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NIYS4m050911 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 12:34:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from anteckim (unverified [24.119.254.13]) by S3.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S3) with ESMTP id 109113414 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 11:34:22 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" References: <001a01c79d0b$2c3a2e40$0200a8c0@bob3pc> <465485E1.3070309@lavoltapress.com> Subject: RE: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 13:34:08 -0500 Message-ID: <004201c79d68$f3f77930$bb00a8c0@anteckim> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: <465485E1.3070309@lavoltapress.com> Thread-Index: AcedaKaQWsuUADDQRuiVMhEa3RBMiAAADE6w X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 0, First 49, in=53, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 24.119.254.13 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 0c5cc09f-c363-446a-bfcb-1c916339a0df X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46548959.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 23 May 2007 14:35:09 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Fran-- If you want muddy colors, add black dye, or the complement of the color you are using. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Lavolta Press Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 1:20 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater I order from Dharma all the time. I am just having trouble reconciling the heat and agitation most wool-dyeing instructions require, with what that might do to wool, particularly wool that has already been knitted up and thefore shrinkage is an issue. Most people seem to be dyeing yarn. I like muddy colors though, and can't usually achieve them with Procion MX dyes, which I have lots of around. I know they are not officially wool dyes but people seem to use them for wook anyway. Fran Sharon Collier wrote: > Try Dharma Trading Company. They have lovely dyes that work in cold > water. I have used them on cotton T-shirts and the dyes stays bright > and doesn't wash out. Colors aren't muddy. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 23 15:04:23 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NJ4NT2032330 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 15:04:23 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4NJ48DW004146 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 May 2007 15:04:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4NJ3GLt040666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 23 May 2007 13:03:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NJ3DWn078325; Wed, 23 May 2007 13:03:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.192.84]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NJ39M6078204 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 13:03:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <20070523190304m14005ha7se>; Wed, 23 May 2007 19:03:04 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <465485E1.3070309@lavoltapress.com> References: <001a01c79d0b$2c3a2e40$0200a8c0@bob3pc> <465485E1.3070309@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <0a8597540b1192cd82d642dd44ff8ac9@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 13:03:02 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 6cbf2ba5-fec7-4705-bcc8-575e2a0f08bb X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 46549028.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 23 May 2007 15:04:12 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO That's funny. I seem to get muddy colors with MX all the time when I don't want them. MX dyes don't use heat. You just need to stir. Sylvia On May 23, 2007, at 12:20 PM, Lavolta Press wrote: > I order from Dharma all the time. I am just having trouble reconciling > the heat and agitation most wool-dyeing instructions require, with > what that might do to wool, particularly wool that has already been > knitted up and thefore shrinkage is an issue. Most people seem to be > dyeing yarn. > > I like muddy colors though, and can't usually achieve them with > Procion MX dyes, which I have lots of around. I know they are not > officially wool dyes but people seem to use them for wook anyway. > > Fran > > Sharon Collier wrote: > >> Try Dharma Trading Company. They have lovely dyes that work in cold >> water. I >> have used them on cotton T-shirts and the dyes stays bright and >> doesn't wash >> out. Colors aren't muddy. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 23 15:41:34 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NJfYFF001203 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 15:41:34 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4NJfKrQ006817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 May 2007 15:41:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4NJdmPg045011 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 23 May 2007 13:39:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NJdhl3011128; Wed, 23 May 2007 13:39:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cgp.netins.net (f2phy.netins.net [167.142.229.65]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NJddi5011059 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 13:39:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from landofoz@netins.net) X-netINS-MPP: scanned Received: from [67.55.167.82] (account landofoz@netins.net HELO denise8541f2db) by cgpf2.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.13) with ESMTPA id 1321044814 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 23 May 2007 14:39:35 -0500 Message-ID: <03e801c79d72$216fb4f0$52a73743@denise8541f2db> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001a01c79d0b$2c3a2e40$0200a8c0@bob3pc><465485E1.3070309@lavoltapress.com> <0a8597540b1192cd82d642dd44ff8ac9@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 14:39:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=46% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c1929ba0-c385-4492-b247-17e1c04a7cef X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 465498E0.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 23 May 2007 15:41:23 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > That's funny. I seem to get muddy colors with MX all the time when I > don't want them. MX dyes don't use heat. You just need to stir. > > it's probably your water. Try using distilled, filtered or bottled water. Denise Iowa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 23 19:12:13 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NNCDGm007394 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 19:12:13 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4NNBxi3020231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 May 2007 19:12:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4NNAWCt070676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 23 May 2007 17:10:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NNANab084915; Wed, 23 May 2007 17:10:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.192.83]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4N1EDTo089768 for ; Tue, 22 May 2007 19:14:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20070523011358m1300c6d8ke>; Wed, 23 May 2007 01:13:58 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 19:13:56 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: abd6cf62-a1c5-40e8-89c2-8a571b21c423 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4654CA3F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 23 May 2007 19:12:02 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I've never tried Kool-aid. You can dye wool in room temp water with Procion MX dyes. Sylvia Rognstad Divinity Designs and Emeralds http://www.d-e-designs.com On May 22, 2007, at 5:54 PM, monica spence wrote: > Believe it or not Kool-aide works as a dye on wool. I saw it at the > New > York State fair a long time ago. Thre colors are bright! I am sure that > using a mordent would make it more colorfast. That is all I know. Maybe > someone here knows more. > Monica > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Lavolta Press > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 5:59 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater > > > Any advice on how to dye an ivory colored, modern, machine knitted 100% > wool turtleneck sweater some less boring but solid color, without > felting it or otherwise damaging the texture? The heat and agitation > in > most dye instructions, even those for wool, makes me very antsy. I'm > not really into dyeing or working with wool, but I got this sweater for > Christmas years ago, have never worn it because it's boring, and have > decided I might as well dye it. If it works, I have a nice-quality > ivory 1950s cashmere cardigan I'd like to do next. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 23 19:12:24 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NNCL5J007402 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 19:12:21 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4NNC7dH007943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 May 2007 19:12:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4NNBfie070882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 23 May 2007 17:11:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NNBesx086028; Wed, 23 May 2007 17:11:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4N7QuWm089453 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 01:26:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id AAE4266A02A2; Wed, 23 May 2007 07:19:00 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 00:26:50 -0700 Message-ID: <001d01c79d0b$bad6f840$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <4653678C.9030109@lavoltapress.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 3e5eaab9-8dcd-4db8-899b-a3f2eeff7f1e X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 4654CA47.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 23 May 2007 19:12:11 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Oh, I forgot to say, I was tie-dying T-shirts, so first we soaked them = in a pre-dye solution (I forget what it was called), then squirted on the dye = and left it sit for some number of hours. The thing is, there was no = agitation required, which would be good news for your sweater. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] = On Behalf Of Lavolta Press Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 2:59 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater Any advice on how to dye an ivory colored, modern, machine knitted 100%=20 wool turtleneck sweater some less boring but solid color, without=20 felting it or otherwise damaging the texture? The heat and agitation in = most dye instructions, even those for wool, makes me very antsy. I'm=20 not really into dyeing or working with wool, but I got this sweater for=20 Christmas years ago, have never worn it because it's boring, and have=20 decided I might as well dye it. If it works, I have a nice-quality=20 ivory 1950s cashmere cardigan I'd like to do next. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 23 19:13:36 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NNDaU2007442 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 19:13:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4NNDLEK008660 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 May 2007 19:13:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4NNCunJ071162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 23 May 2007 17:12:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NNCuPs087371; Wed, 23 May 2007 17:12:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cgp.netins.net (f1phy.netins.net [167.142.228.65]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NDZi5r083487 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 07:35:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from landofoz@netins.net) X-netINS-MPP: scanned Received: from [67.55.167.82] (account landofoz@netins.net HELO denise8541f2db) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.13) with ESMTPA id 1341930279 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 23 May 2007 08:35:34 -0500 Message-ID: <011201c79d3f$462af7b0$52a73743@denise8541f2db> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001a01c79d0b$2c3a2e40$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 08:35:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=58% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c0a977e9-aea0-40b3-b387-9f701937a5e9 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 4654CA91.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 23 May 2007 19:13:25 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Try Dharma Trading Company. They have lovely dyes that work in cold water. I have used them on cotton T-shirts and the dyes stays bright and doesn't wash out. Colors aren't muddy. ------------- But you can't use the same dye (that dyes cotton in cold water) to dye wool. Different chemicals. Rit and other dyes like it have both types in the same package: cellulosic dyes (for cotton, linen, hemp) *and* acid dyes (for wool, silk, mohair). That's one of the reasons Rit dye takes so long to rinse out. If you dye wool, you have to rinse out all the unused cellulose dye. Denise Iowa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 23 19:14:23 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NNEMQS007470 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 19:14:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4NNE8fk008723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 May 2007 19:14:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4NNDaHI071284 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 23 May 2007 17:13:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NNDZjc087907; Wed, 23 May 2007 17:13:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NEh0QU036739 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 08:43:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id u.be9.168af6ce (52847) for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 10:42:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MBLK-M42 (mblk-m42.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.86]) by cia-m03.mx.aol.com (v115.11) with ESMTP id MAILCIAM037-ce6f465452e61ab; Wed, 23 May 2007 10:42:46 -0400 To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 10:42:46 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User MIME-Version: 1.0 From: tearoses@aol.com X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 27379 Received: from 66.64.176.250 by MBLK-M42.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.86) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 23 May 2007 10:42:46 -0400 Message-Id: <8C96B5FC3418683-1778-D9A@MBLK-M42.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 64.12.136.86 X-Spam-Flag: YES X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] lacing rings X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9b6d66a0-606c-4ca9-99d4-05f762dd9eb7 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 4654CAC0.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 23 May 2007 19:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO What do you guys use for lacing rings? I just found this vendor: http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=6029520 Can't beat that price! Tea Rose ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 23 19:15:52 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NNFqTK007524 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 19:15:52 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4NNFclH022121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 May 2007 19:15:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4NNF6rf071555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 23 May 2007 17:15:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NNF5d2089202; Wed, 23 May 2007 17:15:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s13.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s13.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.213]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NJ6jap081257 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 13:06:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.16]) by bay0-omc3-s13.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Wed, 23 May 2007 12:06:37 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 23 May 2007 12:06:37 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 209.180.136.218 by BAY133-DAV6.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 23 May 2007 19:06:36 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [209.180.136.218] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001a01c79d0b$2c3a2e40$0200a8c0@bob3pc> <465485E1.3070309@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater a muddy color Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 12:06:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 23 May 2007 12:06:53 -0700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 May 2007 19:06:37.0599 (UTC) FILETIME=[7CE902F0:01C79D6D] X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=13% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4a43d5ab-9422-487e-92c3-616dfc8c061d X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4654CB1A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 23 May 2007 19:15:42 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I add the color Bronze to my Procion dye mixtures to "down" the color. = In sufficient quantities, it should do the trick. ----- Original Message -----=20 I like muddy colors though, and can't usually achieve them with = Procion=20 MX dyes, which I have lots of around. I know they are not officially=20 wool dyes but people seem to use them for wook anyway. Fran _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 23 19:16:17 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NNGH5Q007536 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 19:16:17 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4NNG23O022894 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 May 2007 19:16:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4NNFOZI071682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 23 May 2007 17:15:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NNFMIv089486; Wed, 23 May 2007 17:15:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NJFK7S088865 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 13:15:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [209.148.118.138] (209-148-118-138.dial.dynamic.sonic.net [209.148.118.138]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l4NJFIWx026591 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 12:15:19 -0700 Message-ID: <465492CD.2060100@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 12:15:25 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater References: <001a01c79d0b$2c3a2e40$0200a8c0@bob3pc> <465485E1.3070309@lavoltapress.com> <0a8597540b1192cd82d642dd44ff8ac9@ntw.net> In-Reply-To: <0a8597540b1192cd82d642dd44ff8ac9@ntw.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b8586787-1096-4edb-8c8e-f58454f56b58 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4654CB33.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 23 May 2007 19:16:06 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO They are recommended for some heat--they are not supposed to be literallly tap-water-cold-dyes. Do you use them tap-water-cold? Fran Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > That's funny. I seem to get muddy colors with MX all the time when I > don't want them. MX dyes don't use heat. You just need to stir. > > Sylvia > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 23 19:27:40 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NNRelJ007846 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 19:27:40 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4NNRPFS021314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 May 2007 19:27:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4NNQken072764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 23 May 2007 17:26:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NNQjuX096979; Wed, 23 May 2007 17:26:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4NNQgAe096875 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 17:26:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4630B16C6 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 18:26:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4654CDB1.6090306@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 18:26:41 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] lacing rings References: <8C96B5FC3418683-1778-D9A@MBLK-M42.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C96B5FC3418683-1778-D9A@MBLK-M42.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 02e62012-9681-4780-bec8-a3229afc2eac X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 4654CDDE.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 23 May 2007 19:27:29 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO tearoses@aol.com wrote: > What do you guys use for lacing rings? The round eye part from a set of hooks and eyes. I can put them on with my sewing machine. I just found this vendor: > > http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=6029520 > > Can't beat that price! Unfortunately, they're sold out. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 23 20:01:48 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O01mNi008895 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 20:01:48 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4O01Xp7022530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 May 2007 20:01:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4O00d9C075551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 23 May 2007 18:00:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O00bs6016652; Wed, 23 May 2007 18:00:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [63.240.77.81]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O00XKj016527 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 18:00:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <20070524000027011007inh6e>; Thu, 24 May 2007 00:00:27 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <465492CD.2060100@lavoltapress.com> References: <001a01c79d0b$2c3a2e40$0200a8c0@bob3pc> <465485E1.3070309@lavoltapress.com> <0a8597540b1192cd82d642dd44ff8ac9@ntw.net> <465492CD.2060100@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 18:00:26 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1d0d7d72-ed23-4e90-9025-a930d3ffe557 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4654D5DD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 23 May 2007 20:01:37 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I use them at room temp. My info says that using heat is not advised. I dissolve the salt in hot water and let it come to room temp before adding dye and soda ash. I also dissolve the soda ash in hot water and let cool. On May 23, 2007, at 1:15 PM, Lavolta Press wrote: > They are recommended for some heat--they are not supposed to be > literallly tap-water-cold-dyes. > > Do you use them tap-water-cold? > > Fran > > Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > >> That's funny. I seem to get muddy colors with MX all the time when I >> don't want them. MX dyes don't use heat. You just need to stir. >> Sylvia >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 23 21:11:56 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O1BsK5011008 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 21:11:56 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4O1Be5N003162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 May 2007 21:11:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4O1ALTm081180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 23 May 2007 19:10:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O1AIb0054370; Wed, 23 May 2007 19:10:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O1AEEj054334 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 19:10:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [209.148.118.216] (209-148-118-216.dial.dynamic.sonic.net [209.148.118.216]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l4O1ABnd004829 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 18:10:13 -0700 Message-ID: <4654E5FA.3030108@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 18:10:18 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater References: <001a01c79d0b$2c3a2e40$0200a8c0@bob3pc> <011201c79d3f$462af7b0$52a73743@denise8541f2db> In-Reply-To: <011201c79d3f$462af7b0$52a73743@denise8541f2db> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 724f7379-98e2-4632-b857-c30c5008e0e2 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4654E64C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 23 May 2007 21:11:44 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I'm aware that that there are different dyes available for protein fibers. But according to some websites many people do use Procion dyes on wool, they just don't get exactly the same colors. And I have lots of Procion dyes already, so why buy more dye? Fran Land of Oz wrote: > Try Dharma Trading Company. They have lovely dyes that work in cold > water. I > have used them on cotton T-shirts and the dyes stays bright and doesn't > wash > out. Colors aren't muddy. > ------------- > > But you can't use the same dye (that dyes cotton in cold water) to dye > wool. Different chemicals. > > Rit and other dyes like it have both types in the same package: > cellulosic dyes (for cotton, linen, hemp) *and* acid dyes (for wool, > silk, mohair). That's one of the reasons Rit dye takes so long to rinse > out. If you dye wool, you have to rinse out all the unused cellulose dye. > > > Denise > Iowa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 23 21:52:33 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O1qVW1012232 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 21:52:31 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4O1qGtx001061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 May 2007 21:52:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4O1pdec085664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 23 May 2007 19:51:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O1pb5u077288; Wed, 23 May 2007 19:51:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O1pYIe077261 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 19:51:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id ADC811A1031A; Thu, 24 May 2007 01:43:36 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 18:51:28 -0700 Message-ID: <003d01c79da6$0be2bf90$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <011201c79d3f$462af7b0$52a73743@denise8541f2db> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: e7b0421c-3577-4612-82fc-04b84d61a87f X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4654EFD0.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 23 May 2007 21:52:20 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO So what happens if you use cotton dyes on wool? Does it not dye at all, = or would it give the muddy look she (sorry , I deleted original message) is looking for? -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] = On Behalf Of Land of Oz Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 6:36 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater Try Dharma Trading Company. They have lovely dyes that work in cold = water. I have used them on cotton T-shirts and the dyes stays bright and doesn't = wash out. Colors aren't muddy. ------------- But you can't use the same dye (that dyes cotton in cold water) to dye = wool. Different chemicals. Rit and other dyes like it have both types in the same package: = cellulosic=20 dyes (for cotton, linen, hemp) *and* acid dyes (for wool, silk, mohair). = That's one of the reasons Rit dye takes so long to rinse out. If you dye = wool, you have to rinse out all the unused cellulose dye. Denise Iowa=20 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 23 21:59:56 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O1xuu5012494 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 21:59:56 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4O1xg8R022701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 May 2007 21:59:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4O1xL0F086359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 23 May 2007 19:59:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O1xKjW080948; Wed, 23 May 2007 19:59:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc15.comcast.net (sccrmhc15.comcast.net [204.127.200.85]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O1xHEt080874 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 19:59:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc15) with SMTP id <2007052401591101500pktgce>; Thu, 24 May 2007 01:59:12 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <003d01c79da6$0be2bf90$0200a8c0@bob3pc> References: <003d01c79da6$0be2bf90$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <6f8e6320503ebfaf92a494b14f044c50@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 19:59:10 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 6a0410f3-c00e-4021-b0b2-ef9f28016be4 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 4654F18E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 23 May 2007 21:59:45 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Procion MX dyes both protein and cellulose fibers. Acid dyes will only dye protein fibers. Sylvia On May 23, 2007, at 7:51 PM, Sharon Collier wrote: > So what happens if you use cotton dyes on wool? Does it not dye at > all, or > would it give the muddy look she (sorry , I deleted original message) > is > looking for? > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On > Behalf Of Land of Oz > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 6:36 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater > > > Try Dharma Trading Company. They have lovely dyes that work in cold > water. I > have used them on cotton T-shirts and the dyes stays bright and > doesn't wash > out. Colors aren't muddy. > ------------- > > But you can't use the same dye (that dyes cotton in cold water) to dye > wool. > > Different chemicals. > > Rit and other dyes like it have both types in the same package: > cellulosic > dyes (for cotton, linen, hemp) *and* acid dyes (for wool, silk, > mohair). > That's one of the reasons Rit dye takes so long to rinse out. If you > dye > wool, you have to rinse out all the unused cellulose dye. > > > Denise > Iowa > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 23 22:21:34 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O2LYMZ013189 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 22:21:34 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4O2LKZY030675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 May 2007 22:21:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4O2K5YY088280 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 23 May 2007 20:20:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O2K2p9092447; Wed, 23 May 2007 20:20:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.173]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O2Jxm1092369 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 20:20:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from michaela.de.bruce@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 80so886206ugb for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 19:19:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=UTCGZdhrC+nHpo0SrygIlgrAul/7a/6YDHCzFk7M7jmyqgNVshb749au62F4gpiXexlY7rItZcOmw77OroH1Zt3AHJZd4mIUbnPtzPHSpNcV1IVmYeqMZyk5XueclQ3IxptKYV7XVCSkwY7Rx3RZgR3o4h4SdB2auuK94hquSZw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=kroBswWBRRdsKY+OVtCU0mOHFuXDTwS8+Ze+jMe5fBuyFQBvUfLWhgvQJn6xOqg9if8/+j4h8DNZ0g8XnhXIOzeA+WLUTMX0k8n7wK6UyZKagMteGggxGKTMBkb0hrGz3furmtDJVPYY6H/G1mkY3sg4JVUAco6GaDRSDJhvavQ= Received: by 10.78.145.5 with SMTP id s5mr347874hud.1179973194924; Wed, 23 May 2007 19:19:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.157.12 with HTTP; Wed, 23 May 2007 19:19:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <73fb7a5f0705231919j1395885amf72aab46901f0375@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 14:19:54 +1200 From: "michaela de bruce" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] lacing rings In-Reply-To: <8C96B5FC3418683-1778-D9A@MBLK-M42.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <8C96B5FC3418683-1778-D9A@MBLK-M42.sysops.aol.com> X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=13% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c32774f8-2990-468c-a4de-a639457449fd X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 4654F6A0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 23 May 2007 22:21:23 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > What do you guys use for lacing rings? I just found this vendor: It depends. For large meant to be seen rings I use 13mm brass rings from the curtain section of Spotlight/Harvey furnishing etc. Anywhere you can buy everything to make a curtain. They come in several sizes and treatments: http://www.charlesrowley.co.uk/curtain-hooks-rings.html They are about 15c each NZ the size that I get. If I have a need for smaller rings I buy solid brass rig rings from a fishing tackle shop. They wind up 50cNZ each here. http://www.tackleshop.co.uk/ProductDetails/mcs/ProductID/634/GroupID/14/CategoryID/105/v/ These are stainless steel but you can get them in brass, I just have a hard enough time finding them online at all;) Go to a tackle shop and ask for solid brass rig rings, a goos storeperson will know what you are after. I have used the eyes of hooks and eyes in the past too. It really depends on how big the ring needs to be. Michaela (about to use some of said large rings for my upcoming SCA garb project.) http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 24 01:39:02 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O5d2xj019433 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 01:39:02 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4O5clFF009367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 May 2007 01:38:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4O5bZpU006417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 23 May 2007 23:37:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O5aSQ9088197; Wed, 23 May 2007 23:36:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4O5aPmh088135 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 23:36:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABDFLKA8AZBVC4S for (sender ); Wed, 23 May 2007 22:35:26 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgnxMqW/LNq6K5rb50eFCoio= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id MNGYDGQB; Wed, 23 May 2007 22:35:24 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 22:18:43 -0700 Message-ID: <20070523.223425.572.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-9 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 3:4:1007681540 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=1% Cc: Cley@juno.com Subject: [h-cost] hand rolling veil hems X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 27d23332-27f5-4cf6-ab99-c0d6a2ce37d0 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 465524E7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 24 May 2007 01:38:51 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I know I posted about this before, and many of you kind and knowledgable people gave me great instructions (although I admit a certain fondness for the one that takes you through a series of steps, followed by the explicit directive of "Curse"). ;) The problem is that all of these wonderful instructions were sitting in my e-mail inbox, which last night got sucked --in its entirety--into a black hole or otherwise vanished into another plane of existence. Could you please be so good as to repost? Many thanks! Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 24 02:19:07 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O6J7TT029318 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 02:19:07 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4O6Iqh9003327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 May 2007 02:18:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4O6INij009772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 24 May 2007 00:18:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O6HjRE006786; Thu, 24 May 2007 00:17:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from barra1.swissinfo.org (barra1.barra.srg.ch [146.159.6.75]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O6Hfu2006736 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 00:17:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from swissgirl@swissinfo.org) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1179987449-0e96025c0003-L6CAXr X-Barracuda-URL: http://146.159.6.75:8000/cgi-bin/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Connect: kuma.sri.ch[194.6.181.33] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1179987449 X-ASG-Whitelist: Sender Received: from mail.swissinfo.org (kuma.sri.ch [194.6.181.33]) by barra1.swissinfo.org (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id BBB843E7AA for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 08:17:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from compaqub (24.217.100.163) by mail.swissinfo.org (7.2.064.1) (authenticated as swissgirl) id 45DAE0BC03B81134 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 May 2007 08:17:35 +0200 Message-ID: <01b601c79dcb$49e784e0$dd00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8C96B5FC3418683-1778-D9A@MBLK-M42.sysops.aol.com> <73fb7a5f0705231919j1395885amf72aab46901f0375@mail.gmail.com> X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [h-cost] lacing rings Subject: Re: [h-cost] lacing rings Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 01:18:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Barracuda-Virus-Scanned: by Barracuda Spam Firewall at swissinfo.org X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: d582b3c2-b425-4abe-97e4-57644413d5b4 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 46552E4C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 24 May 2007 02:18:56 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I get mine from Fire Mountain Gems-- http://www.firemountaingems.com/search.asp?skw=closed+jump I like the 7 or 8mm ones in 20 gauge, but have used ones as small as 5mm 23 gauge with no problems. They're surprisingly strong! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 24 04:26:21 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O8QK2l023596 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 04:26:20 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4O8Q5oX014539 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 May 2007 04:26:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4O8OhW1018021 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 24 May 2007 02:24:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O8OZoD064771; Thu, 24 May 2007 02:24:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from barra1.swissinfo.org (barra1.swissinfo.org [146.159.6.75]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O8OVea064722 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 02:24:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from swissgirl@swissinfo.org) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1179995047-725600320000-L6CAXr X-Barracuda-URL: http://146.159.6.75:8000/cgi-bin/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Connect: kuma.sri.ch[194.6.181.33] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1179995047 X-ASG-Whitelist: Sender Received: from mail.swissinfo.org (kuma.sri.ch [194.6.181.33]) by barra1.swissinfo.org (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id 3AF439CA63 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 10:24:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from compaqub (24.217.100.163) by mail.swissinfo.org (7.2.064.1) (authenticated as swissgirl) id 45DAE0BC03B89C5F for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 May 2007 10:24:07 +0200 Message-ID: <01f001c79ddc$f6cceea0$dd00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Stuff of interest in Seattle? Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 03:24:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Barracuda-Virus-Scanned: by Barracuda Spam Firewall at swissinfo.org X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Stuff of interest in Seattle? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 93ecdd42-9aab-43ba-a282-3818c127311e X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 46554C1E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 24 May 2007 04:26:09 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO It looks like there's a good chance that within the year, I'll be moving = to the Seattle area. Is there anything out there of interest to h-cost = type folks? =20 -E House, dreading packing and planning to start EARLY this time... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 24 07:32:15 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OBWEWe025939 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 07:32:14 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4OBW003024607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 May 2007 07:32:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4OBUtk0034476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 24 May 2007 05:30:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OBT45D046028; Thu, 24 May 2007 05:29:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4O6Phxh010056 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 00:25:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA08733; Thu, 24 May 2007 01:27:18 -0500 Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 01:27:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] hand rolling veil hems In-Reply-To: <20070523.223425.572.0.Cley@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Cley@juno.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2a0d62a3-e4b2-4272-9c6f-73d4cca81640 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 465577B0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 24 May 2007 07:32:04 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Wed, 23 May 2007, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > I know I posted about this before, and many of you kind and knowledgable > people gave me great instructions (although I admit a certain fondness > for the one that takes you through a series of steps, followed by the > explicit directive of "Curse"). ;) The problem is that all of these > wonderful instructions were sitting in my e-mail inbox, which last night > got sucked --in its entirety--into a black hole or otherwise vanished > into another plane of existence. Could you please be so good as to > repost? Go to your original message here: http://www.mail-archive.com/h-costume@mail.indra.com/msg14616.html ... and at the bottom of the page are links to all the responses, --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 24 08:39:59 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OCdxLw030354 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 08:39:59 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4OCdjkR021236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 May 2007 08:39:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4OCcc9p041922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 24 May 2007 06:38:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OCcUiP081169; Thu, 24 May 2007 06:38:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cgp.netins.net (f1phy.netins.net [167.142.228.65]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OCcMlD081056 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 06:38:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from landofoz@netins.net) X-netINS-MPP: scanned Received: from [67.55.167.82] (account landofoz@netins.net HELO denise8541f2db) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.13) with ESMTPA id 1342914474 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 May 2007 07:38:17 -0500 Message-ID: <015c01c79e00$68c07360$52a73743@denise8541f2db> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001a01c79d0b$2c3a2e40$0200a8c0@bob3pc> <465485E1.3070309@lavoltapress.com><0a8597540b1192cd82d642dd44ff8ac9@ntw.net><465492CD.2060100@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 07:38:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=43% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ad99bb4b-27f8-4fd1-90b8-db71aa3263f6 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46558791.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 24 May 2007 08:39:49 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO >I use them at room temp. My info says that using heat is not advised. I >dissolve the salt in hot water and let it come to room temp before adding >dye and soda ash. I also dissolve the soda ash in hot water and let cool. > These are the directions for dyeing cotton. If you use soda ash on wool or silk, you will get holes or severely weakened fabric. Denise Iowa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 24 08:46:52 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OCkqrf030572 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 08:46:52 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4OCkcQ0026531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 May 2007 08:46:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4OCk6Cs042602 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 24 May 2007 06:46:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OCk02Q085407; Thu, 24 May 2007 06:46:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cgp.netins.net (f1phy.netins.net [167.142.228.65]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OCjvEX085387 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 06:45:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from landofoz@netins.net) X-netINS-MPP: scanned Received: from [67.55.167.82] (account landofoz@netins.net HELO denise8541f2db) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.13) with ESMTPA id 1342919364 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 May 2007 07:45:57 -0500 Message-ID: <015f01c79e01$7ad231a0$52a73743@denise8541f2db> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001a01c79d0b$2c3a2e40$0200a8c0@bob3pc><011201c79d3f$462af7b0$52a73743@denise8541f2db> <4654E5FA.3030108@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 07:45:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=41% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a36ceece-e651-44c8-85aa-a4a23bc2f6b4 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4655892E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 24 May 2007 08:46:42 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > I'm aware that that there are different dyes available for protein fibers. > But according to some websites many people do use Procion dyes on wool, > they just don't get exactly the same colors. And I have lots of Procion > dyes already, so why buy more dye? > I'm not a chemist. If I value the product I am going to spend time on, then I'm going to use the best, most appropriate materials. The members of this list are very quick to point out the inappropriate fabrics, methods or styles used to make a costume, so apply the same standard. Using dye intended for a different product can have poor results that go beyond "not exactly the same colors". You could have issues with colorfastness, lightfastness, fiber damage or failure, crocking and probably others. Enough acid dye to dye one sweater costs about $2, even in the most expensive color. Why would you use anything that might give you poor results? Just donate the sweater or something. Denise Iowa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 24 10:27:26 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OERQOC001425 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 10:27:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4OERB8n003392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 May 2007 10:27:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4OEPqtD060995 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 24 May 2007 08:25:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OEPhLe057589; Thu, 24 May 2007 08:25:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4OEPeId057473 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 08:25:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABDFMJCMAFM3LCA for (sender ); Thu, 24 May 2007 07:25:15 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgsLqkD8Cls5p4Iq9K0kNwGI= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id MNHWNA2L; Thu, 24 May 2007 07:24:30 PDT To: robin@shell.nightowl.net Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 07:08:13 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] hand rolling veil hems Message-ID: <20070524.072332.1480.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-31 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 11:5:1272277557 X-MAIL-INFO: 37f41db4d16d1dc4216d891050c97589f1e5f0494100d070f9a9b4f911f93165252d25511dd1ed89d4a4f465d440bdd121d455544dd119558415747d9020e1ad009185807171 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=1% Cc: Cley@juno.com, h-costume@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4ebee29b-a8fd-4e38-8e29-4ec65c40da50 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 4655A0BF.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 24 May 2007 10:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Bless you, Robin! Thanks! :-) Arlys On Thu, 24 May 2007 01:27:17 -0500 (CDT) Robin Netherton writes: > > On Wed, 23 May 2007, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > > > I know I posted about this before, and many of you kind and > knowledgable > > people gave me great instructions (although I admit a certain > fondness > > for the one that takes you through a series of steps, followed by > the > > explicit directive of "Curse"). ;) The problem is that all of > these > > wonderful instructions were sitting in my e-mail inbox, which last > night > > got sucked --in its entirety--into a black hole or otherwise > vanished > > into another plane of existence. Could you please be so good as to > > repost? > > Go to your original message here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/h-costume@mail.indra.com/msg14616.html > > ... and at the bottom of the page are links to all the responses, > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 24 11:17:31 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OFHVRw003279 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 11:17:31 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4OFHHbw028573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 May 2007 11:17:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4OFFxd6067620 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 24 May 2007 09:16:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OFFGJ1096081; Thu, 24 May 2007 09:15:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alnrmhc12.comcast.net (alnrmhc12.comcast.net [206.18.177.52]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OFFE4b095965 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 09:15:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc12) with SMTP id <20070524151508b1200iknhje>; Thu, 24 May 2007 15:15:08 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <015c01c79e00$68c07360$52a73743@denise8541f2db> References: <001a01c79d0b$2c3a2e40$0200a8c0@bob3pc> <465485E1.3070309@lavoltapress.com><0a8597540b1192cd82d642dd44ff8ac9@ntw.net><465492CD.2060100@lavoltapress.com> <015c01c79e00$68c07360$52a73743@denise8541f2db> Message-Id: <5e73f0c62c09efb78f2a2731c253fd18@ntw.net> From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 09:15:08 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2ac2e1dc-4c8f-4c44-8d3e-ef04dff72294 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 4655AC7D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 24 May 2007 11:17:21 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I have used soda ash on silk with no problems. I must admit I've never tried it on wool. I would call Pro Chemical on the east coast. I order my dye from either them or Dharma and they are very knowledgeable. They will give you the definitive answer you need for dyeing wool. Go to http://www.prochemical.com/ Sylvia Rognstad Divinity Designs and Emeralds http://www.d-e-designs.com On May 24, 2007, at 6:38 AM, Land of Oz wrote: >> I use them at room temp. My info says that using heat is not >> advised. I dissolve the salt in hot water and let it come to room >> temp before adding dye and soda ash. I also dissolve the soda ash in >> hot water and let cool. >> > > These are the directions for dyeing cotton. If you use soda ash on > wool or silk, you will get holes or severely weakened fabric. > > Denise > Iowa > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 24 14:07:41 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OI7f00009696 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 14:07:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4OI7QYH001188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 May 2007 14:07:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4OI65QI096185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 24 May 2007 12:06:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OI5xZc052341; Thu, 24 May 2007 12:05:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OI5tNS052247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 12:05:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [209.148.118.108] (209-148-118-108.dial.dynamic.sonic.net [209.148.118.108]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l4OI5pTo012961 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 11:05:52 -0700 Message-ID: <4655D405.1090600@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 11:05:57 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dye a sweater References: <001a01c79d0b$2c3a2e40$0200a8c0@bob3pc><011201c79d3f$462af7b0$52a73743@denise8541f2db> <4654E5FA.3030108@lavoltapress.com> <015f01c79e01$7ad231a0$52a73743@denise8541f2db> In-Reply-To: <015f01c79e01$7ad231a0$52a73743@denise8541f2db> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: d2f597cb-718d-4295-9def-78d6ddf9830a X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 4655D45E.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 24 May 2007 14:07:30 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO That is the point. A machine-made sweater that someone gave me that did not cost much, which I dislike so much I have never once worn it in the 7 years or so since it was given to me, and which I am making a final attempt to like and use by dyeing it before throwing it away, is not something I value so much I want to go out and spend money on the very finest, most very appropriate and expensive materials, even if it's just $2 worth of dye and $5 worth of shipping charges. I would throw the sweater out anyway, except my mother gave it to me and she has since died herself (not with Procion MX). She had awful taste in colors and I am sure she gave me an ivory-colored sweater as the one thing she could think of that would please me. On the other hand, I already have about 15 pounds of different Procion MX dyes available, since I've been doing cotton dyeing projects weekly for the last year and a half. I also have read several Internet articles saying that this is often done and that it can be successful. The problem is most use more heat than I'd like to use washing wool, which, BTW, I do do in tap-cold water. There's fine art, and then there is salvage. I also usually do not use the very finest fabrics and lace for patching clothes, or go out and buy special materials to do it with. I just use what I have around. The members of this list are also very quick to criticize each other for not doing things exactly the way they do them. I am not living my life to meet anyone else's standards but my own. Fran best, most appropriate materials. > > The members of this list are very quick to point out the inappropriate > fabrics, methods or styles used to make a costume, so apply the same > standard. > > Using dye intended for a different product can have poor results that go > beyond "not exactly the same colors". You could have issues with > colorfastness, lightfastness, fiber damage or failure, crocking and > probably others. > > Enough acid dye to dye one sweater costs about $2, even in the most > expensive color. Why would you use anything that might give you poor > results? Just donate the sweater or something. > > Denise > Iowa > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 24 16:00:58 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OK0vrq013707 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 16:00:57 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4OK0hGs018503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 May 2007 16:00:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4OJxNaS014345 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 24 May 2007 13:59:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OJxEUx052590; Thu, 24 May 2007 13:59:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep35.mail.dk (fep35.mail.dk [80.160.76.199]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OJx9p7052463 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 13:59:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep44.mail.dk ([195.41.46.227]) by fep35.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070524195904.WLBL25426.fep35.mail.dk@fep44.mail.dk> for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 21:59:04 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.164.110.117]) by fep44.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070524195903.CPHC8801.fep44.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 21:59:03 +0200 Message-ID: <002d01c79e3e$0a14e150$756ea450@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 21:59:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep44.mail.dk from [80.164.110.117] at Thu, 24 May 2007 21:59:00 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=25% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] hat books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a4540bfa-bd87-464c-ad5c-0679dbfe2bb8 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4655EEEB.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 24 May 2007 16:00:47 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I really need a book with hats. Anyone have any suggestions with a good history of hat book available today? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 24 16:33:26 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OKXQf1019385 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 16:33:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4OKXCZA012794 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 May 2007 16:33:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4OKREC9018737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 24 May 2007 14:27:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OKRD7T077169; Thu, 24 May 2007 14:27:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s20.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s20.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.156]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OKR92i077063 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 14:27:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from luann_mason@msn.com) Received: from BAY106-W9 ([65.54.161.109]) by bay0-omc2-s20.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Thu, 24 May 2007 13:27:04 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.32.241.152] From: LuAnn Mason To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Stuff of interest in Seattle? Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 13:27:04 -0700 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 May 2007 20:27:04.0418 (UTC) FILETIME=[E454E420:01C79E41] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9ea7a2c5-2e12-48cb-ae76-02b0052ce7f3 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4655F688.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 24 May 2007 16:33:15 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Weaving works is awesome, and I believe there's a Greater Seattle Area Cost= umer's Guild... =20 Sorry, I'm about three hours away from there, and don't get that way very o= ften. =20 LuAnn > From: swissgirl@swissinfo.org> To: h-costume@indra.com> Date: Thu, 24 May= 2007 03:24:31 -0500> CC: > Subject: [h-cost] Stuff of interest in Seattle?= > > It looks like there's a good chance that within the year, I'll be movin= g to the Seattle area. Is there anything out there of interest to h-cost ty= pe folks? > > -E House, dreading packing and planning to start EARLY this t= ime...> _______________________________________________> h-costume mailing = list> h-costume@mail.indra.com> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-co= stume= _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 24 16:50:18 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OKoHAA019949 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 16:50:17 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4OKo3xp013116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 May 2007 16:50:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4OKnScM021472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 24 May 2007 14:49:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OKnQt1096716; Thu, 24 May 2007 14:49:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s23.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s23.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.223]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4OKnOHA096612 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 14:49:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from praxis_729@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.19.24]) by bay0-omc3-s23.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Thu, 24 May 2007 13:49:18 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 May 2007 13:49:18 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.19.200 by by109fd.bay109.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 May 2007 20:49:16 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.133.199.144] X-Originating-Email: [praxis_729@hotmail.com] X-Sender: praxis_729@hotmail.com From: "Paula Praxis" To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Stuff of interest in Seattle? Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 13:49:16 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 May 2007 20:49:18.0852 (UTC) FILETIME=[FFB75C40:01C79E44] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8ae55448-0498-4474-b8aa-5f6714c66514 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 4655FA7B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 24 May 2007 16:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO You'll love Seattle? I spent 10 years there - college & beyond. I've been gone for 27 years but I love it every time I go visit. The city is vibrant and you'll discover lots od history related groups there. Their theater is also outstanding _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazine’s 2007 editors’ choice for best Web mail—award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 24 19:11:41 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ONBfm4024261 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 19:11:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4ONBQmv028961 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 May 2007 19:11:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4ONAoAG039113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 24 May 2007 17:10:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ONAkkq007018; Thu, 24 May 2007 17:10:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ONAgSI006932 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 17:10:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=pCwEGxvOFdSBnLr47WfQvBFk2lMgXDnCO6ljIUfKKWxzads7Xvmg3PXvM7M81vCr; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [68.167.253.41] (helo=boris) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HrMS5-0000JZ-FX for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 24 May 2007 19:10:37 -0400 Message-ID: <04f201c79e58$c8bbf3e0$0200a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stuff of interest in Seattle? Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 16:10:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd489858d3c418cd74ebb0b8b049521ca181a2d4e88014a4647c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.167.253.41 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7e3c4d2d-9eb1-469d-b3ac-4f90de2e7ac3 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 46561B9E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 24 May 2007 19:11:30 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > It looks like there's a good chance that within the year, I'll be moving to the Seattle area. Is there anything out there of interest to h-cost type folks? > > -E House, dreading packing and planning to start EARLY this time...> It depends on what period you're looking for. European history out here started about 1840 or so, which limits some of the emphasis. That being said, there's a lot of Asian and Native American textiles, costumes and artifacts in the museums, and some European stuff, you just have to look a bit for it. The University of Washington has a fairly interesting collection at the Burke Museum. If you're looking for reenactment groups, there's a bunch. I don't know of any Rev. War groups, but a lot of Fur Trade, Civil War, etc. There's the Beyond Realitiy Costumers Guild, which does historic as well as fantasy/science fiction costume, a lot of SCA groups, and a thriving theater scene. As for interesting fabric stores, we've been cursed by most of them closing or getting bought out by the chains and then turning to craft stores with some fabric, but Nancy's Sewing Basket, although pricey, has got some great stuff. Out of Seattle proper, but still close enough for day trips, the Portland Art Museum has some world class traveling exhibits, the one opening next month is the treasures of the Riksmuseum that was in Phoenix. I do a lot of my fabric shopping in Portland or nearby, the Pendleton Woolen Mills outlet is in Washougal, and there are several interesting fabric stores. Traveling the other direction, Vancouver, BC. is a great place for Indian and Pakistani textiles. I live about 45 minutes south of Seattle, in Tacoma, and usually spend one day a week in Seattle doing fittings. Let me know when you get here and maybe we can meet for coffee. Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 24 19:59:54 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ONxrZY025685 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 19:59:53 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4ONxd82004377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 May 2007 19:59:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4ONx2mF043994 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 24 May 2007 17:59:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ONx0eZ035394; Thu, 24 May 2007 17:59:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.181]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ONwwE8035370 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 17:58:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from missdoornink@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id z74so1277099pyg for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 16:58:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=co6M7MbOntJoeCwRLFOsYeBwwi2YH/BcKTf2yn0iPBgHV7JWTj2wRGMaYjd9MdRLR8oVxC07+ivdRy8ZogrT7UJUXjVanZHvsg2I2xKeHLpBhq02nj4lB4r2RM7fG3goBbA2NBY976MRXKS+s0l7JGyCCzW2jcZ3B0DcwgZ9dZk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=YVDJ9Ko4zsvioc5B9xAiSuIbayb7w8Bh8q6pDecbb4exKoC/8EUVZpHzXwwq9XPjk9H+3VLLBjqQ6wttt+m79J39lXozHYtH/dsEraM0zn5kh1kCukuZ0dMio2RHT6e71gaTcOE2ZhGHl3QOuCJJDqcFo6WbAjagQtM72oARSbk= Received: by 10.35.61.14 with SMTP id o14mr4185966pyk.1180051137931; Thu, 24 May 2007 16:58:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.2.4? ( [65.40.227.222]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id v15sm6016269pyh.2007.05.24.16.58.56; Thu, 24 May 2007 16:58:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <46562698.7050700@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 16:58:16 -0700 From: Elisabeth Doornink User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stuff of interest in Seattle? References: <01f001c79ddc$f6cceea0$dd00a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <01f001c79ddc$f6cceea0$dd00a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 871a8979-5da9-4182-a78d-a044d5e76cf7 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 465626EB.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 24 May 2007 19:59:43 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I'm a Localite - not in Seattle itself, but across the water in a lovely little town named Poulsbo. If you'd like to live near Seattle but not *in* King County (which is...half city), I put forward the option of living in Kitsap. It's cheaper, but I'm only an hour's commute away from Seattle. I love both the proximity and the distance! (The closer you get to Seattle, the pricy-er it gets) As far as historical stuff.... In Tacoma you have Fort Nisqualy, which is a reenacting/living history fort set in 1855. I haven't personally been, but I know quite a few people who do work there. In my town you've got a small, but nice house museum where we're starting a living history program soon.... There are several other forts around (Fort Warden, Fort Stellicom, etc) as well as some lovely historical towns. Unfortunately, due to the newness of the area as a whole, 1855 is about the earliest you get without going 'native.' Places to go . . . hmm . . . Weaving Works is great, if you like fiber arts, knitting or weaving. The Pendleton Wool Mill outlet is a wool lovers dream. Pacific Fabrics in Seattle carries some corsetry supplies and teaches corset making classes, if you'd like to gauge what is sold there, and there are always things like Benaroya Hall, where the Seattle Symphony preforms, the Opera, etc. There is a Rev War group, but they're mostly male and do skirmishes. Lots of SCA, but I only know of one terribly farby Ren Faire. I love living in this area - it's not to hot, not to cold, absolutely gorgeous and once you get over the rain (there really isn't that much) the weather is great. - Elisabeth E House wrote: > It looks like there's a good chance that within the year, I'll be moving to the Seattle area. Is there anything out there of interest to h-cost type folks? > > -E House, dreading packing and planning to start EARLY this time... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 24 21:27:03 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4P1R2vw028087 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 21:27:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4P1QlDM029249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 May 2007 21:26:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4P1QMBv056215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 24 May 2007 19:26:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4P1QJNB090844; Thu, 24 May 2007 19:26:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.230]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4P1QHTi090752 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 19:26:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thirling@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id x7so762486nzc for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 18:26:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=fdJmtnyr33E+Pkd7SB8gDE24lolnGJm3vGYPsAXZEXueUUkGYsPeMUPfKD6d/6Zd/8GkXEojz5InTVK2Z4tU/zHkulXQ21ogvtifgo7Yqb3YNrMjhNaL3w+HZIqPIp6U4PIPVAr805tQ0Fju0KtkD3G4x3bFswm1z3AjwYTHjKE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=MZjq2JP4+9NQZOjIaLldqyiWxyAJEYjqsn7giyE0auH+qSM8Eqldcqm2jfxFLSbCHdd53m0O6yHwtCGrjnbPK76kf2S3oAqfctXcZinzOjuhyUmmpzLJDcKm3394DnUOUfARmvwNP+WDegoTkMQQpJsqIJ72hhXurdTcgnZEkYY= Received: by 10.114.74.1 with SMTP id w1mr1249019waa.1180056369799; Thu, 24 May 2007 18:26:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.153.7 with HTTP; Thu, 24 May 2007 18:26:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6c845a440705241826m5110fc1ar289245e5f5f03b80@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 19:26:09 -0600 From: "Terri Hirling" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Brass Rings X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b2da986d-abbb-4598-9545-5ccd6d941bb5 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 46563B57.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 24 May 2007 21:26:52 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I get my brass (lacing) rings from Textol Drapery. I'm not sure you can beat a bag of 1000 rings for $12.00. That should be enough lacing rings to last a lifetime. The only problem is your order has to be at least $35.00. When I ordered mine a couple of years ago they were $19 or $20/bag and I believe the order amount had to be $25 or $30 so I just order pillow form. http://www.textol.com/d_13.asp Baroness Isabeau Quiquandon Terri Hirling -- "We live in two worlds . . . the world into which we are born, and the other world that is born within us. Both may be a blessing or a curse. We choose." Attributed as a Druid homily. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 24 21:54:53 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4P1srxP028805 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 21:54:53 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4P1scVl017615 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 May 2007 21:54:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4P1sCUH059975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 24 May 2007 19:54:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4P1sA5k008231; Thu, 24 May 2007 19:54:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web55314.mail.re4.yahoo.com (web55314.mail.re4.yahoo.com [206.190.58.193]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4P1s7bn008151 for ; Thu, 24 May 2007 19:54:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from faerieglenstudios@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 69432 invoked by uid 60001); 25 May 2007 01:54:01 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=z5eMwm8bo3pj2rTTxw3EJqkkcW/uRyS9uQgkLqGzJJToYPaLZRtM4QBTSizlmDn1O26kGxM4iCeabfgxhnfNy/OhLFKHUbCT+1pEu7CQYu2DyeAm4dIANcMpIbh13PY0wGL4qdynhTZPZEGpECYSjWb55e2yAEYJxVf09T/BiqI=; X-YMail-OSG: 3tW4.wEVM1nxP13D7V9sEUcBkdp1.gK9yUI4jvriIR.ZVnatOyA..sPUmmKNlTcpZgtfL3.GIb_wu_BlsAiic3svtBPdGv1bxdR3Yqlwsy2Zq5g963K1x_zGy8_cBwzSvhCsFqlnNNzSUsjXNHkMbgLD Received: from [208.67.10.163] by web55314.mail.re4.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 May 2007 18:54:00 PDT Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 18:54:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Jodi Nelson To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <716665.69296.qm@web55314.mail.re4.yahoo.com> X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: net.indra.com 1290; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=16% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] RE: How to Dye A Sweater X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 6716c93a-f931-415f-b0b7-cba7e11010d5 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 465641DE.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 24 May 2007 21:54:42 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Try Paula Burch's Low Water Immersion technique. If you Google her name, you'll get her web site. I used it on both cotton and silk noil for some costumes I made for a movie being shot in my area last summer. it was very easy and the results were fabulous. She uses Procion MX dyes. Good Luck!!! Jodi --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 25 14:57:51 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4PIvoGh030314 for ; Fri, 25 May 2007 14:57:50 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4PIvare018455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 25 May 2007 14:57:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4PIv6SX081713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 25 May 2007 12:57:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4PIv1Eo054930; Fri, 25 May 2007 12:57:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32201.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32201.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.132]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4PIuv4c054827 for ; Fri, 25 May 2007 12:56:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sstormwatch@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 28297 invoked by uid 60001); 25 May 2007 18:56:52 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=lkq2NtZNdfZgCmQefJp3Vq6bPYi+A98Ly65G7JSXM+1fq+J2R4/qmxk93+/FhKpv71CBLJ+TFKZgJVRhNrNu3M4xsoN/srTgz5yx8AmLdQOBN/bkiXCPhu6+DzxKyPK6glcbf0AyNFLtuQ76wdIO3CulYhatYe951mLxHKA1ZKU=; X-YMail-OSG: 0DTQ7hwVM1kOHPkB.Kq.AhxSNqIKQ568Sw_ZCKj.t_.Y01iFHZ_ZY2urvO0JPw5HZFMZAEDr_nuMSysDwIT.it0Nj_8l8sWFbTmjbyzhgAERlASmHTQ- Received: from [129.8.204.63] by web32201.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 25 May 2007 11:56:52 PDT Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 11:56:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Kimiko Small To: Historical Costume , fresnofiberarts@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <583850.28283.qm@web32201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Blue Velvet Henrician Suite X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f5534517-fed1-4d22-aed2-c4fa16ab532c X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 465731A0.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 25 May 2007 14:57:40 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi all, I cross posted to a few lists, so sorry if you get this more than once. I wanted to share the last big project I had been working on for a client, and now most of the photos are uploaded for viewing. This is a blue cotton velvet Henrician suite of garments, including doublet and sleeves, slashed with small puffs of fine linen. The same material is used for the jacket with attached skirt. All is trimmed in gold cord, cream and gold trim, and beautiful gold jewels imported from England. Also there is a cream wool flannel pair of breeches with slash & puff codpiece, and a simple white linen shirt. It is finished with a white silk sash. Sadly, I don't have a man's dress form to put it on, so it was placed on my oversized woman's dress form, so it isn't as nice looking as I would like. I do hope to get photos of the client in the whole thing later this summer. http://www.flickr.com/photos/41633059@N00/sets/72157600027344164/ Eventually this will end up on my web site. Kimiko Small http://www.kimiko1.com ____________________________________________________________________________________Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 27 12:00:03 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RG03iv008495 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 12:00:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4RFxm4h025680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 May 2007 11:59:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4RFvJt5052294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 27 May 2007 09:57:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RFvDcx022818; Sun, 27 May 2007 09:57:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.91.152]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4RFv9Cm022736 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 09:57:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from zkraemerova@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 7784 invoked by uid 60001); 27 May 2007 15:57:04 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=MyhtYqI25qOcn3DKzzQb3YExyyBGRLtdlWbH3+cK9wmpMI8yAYHA7n9/lX5W+BSoOl0Y6n5gaVV1ibIZYnjXmns8C3fDU2MqXA8iRyNhn2fUKx7WmoPfdaTdmGTsMGWoF9qETYZtKOR26Ge7YEl4I8PusDHt7E7JdZ0UZCcznHY=; X-YMail-OSG: R4yY0tkVM1l47ZV5iJdo8vJOFTRI6mfaHIuoWeviTdXOEZsAjfy9yCtm2PBaZvNcHY8eUnlG3WFhMv5Q330TDFlz1c6rtO9zBV1.5vzJT4TpgMQjkmTz2L.1HMYELw-- Received: from [212.24.150.226] by web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 27 May 2007 08:57:04 PDT Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 08:57:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Zuzana Kraemerova Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for fabric shopping in Rome and Prague To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <509715.1081.qm@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=31% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: d4199734-2414-4ac2-81ae-0c48f19ed630 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 4659AAF4.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 27 May 2007 11:59:52 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi, no idea whether I'm writing too late or not, but I live in Prague and there are some nice fabric shops here - what exactly would you like to buy? There are shops with very cheap but good fabrics including linen and cotton but there are also shops with theatre/evening fashion. Zuzana Kathy Stormberg wrote: Okay, since there are requests for good places for fabric in Ireland and Germany, how about Rome and Prague (Rome especially!)? I will be there at the end of this month/early next month. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks, Kathy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 27 12:52:02 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RGq1CA009974 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 12:52:01 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4RGplul013493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 May 2007 12:51:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4RGpRZ8059443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 27 May 2007 10:51:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RGpPdm052031; Sun, 27 May 2007 10:51:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web37509.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web37509.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.91.156]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4RGpLRl051940 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 10:51:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from zkraemerova@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 77444 invoked by uid 60001); 27 May 2007 16:51:16 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=dHFi+M9Zms3DKxqHOUEGm32xMjEVAMNcbfx1dFwn7ui8JO3bZ9DLjRJw4tQHNZH2hKRFyG5jdjyOGEeVDMPO59zN8NOo1xa1x/Hx/Y9g+QdFg1xA/bFYZSVPdf2UxgTzkOjLnqTHlogm49u16GJ3cdkgq5H69Ax35GOTFfsEDEw=; X-YMail-OSG: eTUyBDgVM1nYu7798X5.bnDwh0KiTYrbFsOQVZBcKBz_fTEj6hFBnl2ZEJG.2f3bSxwYEL76wY527aHF4UptGs0tSg-- Received: from [212.24.150.226] by web37509.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 27 May 2007 09:51:16 PDT Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 09:51:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Zuzana Kraemerova To: h-costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <336225.77414.qm@web37509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=25% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] 1432 doublet - fastening? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: e93acbb2-f7ea-4431-abac-005697ed1b1e X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 4659B723.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 27 May 2007 12:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi, I'm just up to make this doublet (or whatever it's called): http://www.kazi.webz.cz/wagner/images/wag01-28.jpg It's the second one from the left. It's taken from Medieval costume, armor, and weapons, but originally it comes from the Wenceslas bible and it's dated to the 1432, Bohemia. I would like the doublet to follow the shape of the body, not very tight, just a little, but not too loose. My question is - how can I achieve this WITHOUT a fastening? Is it possible? How tight can I do the waistline when the man's chest/bust is around 100cm? Do you know any tricks about this? It might not be possible to do it without fastening, so my second question is, where would a fastening for such a garment be? (I don't want the front fastening). On the back? Or was there any at the sides? What would be used? Lacing? Buttons? Hooks and eyes? Anything else? Many thanks to everyone who could give me some advice:-) Zuzana --------------------------------- Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 27 13:33:42 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RHXgVP011320 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 13:33:42 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4RHXSnx003764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 May 2007 13:33:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4RHWo8n064106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 27 May 2007 11:32:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RHWmqp075468; Sun, 27 May 2007 11:32:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s32.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s32.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.104]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RF1rKA093573 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 09:01:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.16]) by bay0-omc1-s32.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sun, 27 May 2007 08:01:49 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 27 May 2007 08:01:48 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 216.160.220.183 by BAY133-DAV6.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 27 May 2007 15:01:44 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [216.160.220.183] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "h-costume" Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 08:01:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 27 May 2007 08:01:08 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 May 2007 15:01:48.0630 (UTC) FILETIME=[F3413760:01C7A06F] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Testing... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 048d6535-1c10-4793-9c0d-84e22071fdd5 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 4659C0E8.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 27 May 2007 13:33:31 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Sure is quiet out there lately. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 27 14:05:08 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RI534K012223 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 14:05:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4RI4nvG027065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 May 2007 14:04:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4RI4RgC068281 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 27 May 2007 12:04:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RI4Qbo093080; Sun, 27 May 2007 12:04:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RI4NOO093048 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 12:04:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A6482F8F00CA; Sun, 27 May 2007 17:56:24 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1432 doublet - fastening? Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 11:04:09 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01c7a089$6ca0a6e0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: <336225.77414.qm@web37509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4d89cd33-d025-4aad-a42b-fe63d969a504 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 4659C841.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 27 May 2007 14:04:53 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO My theatre teacher in college made a dress like this, without a = fastening. The way she did it was to cut it on the bias. She literally had the = actress lie down on the fabric, and traced around her, allowing extra for going around the body. She made the sleeves separately, as they wouldn't fit = on her fabric with it being on the bias. It fit wonderfully, following the = body shape.=20 -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] = On Behalf Of Zuzana Kraemerova Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 9:51 AM To: h-costume Subject: [h-cost] 1432 doublet - fastening? Hi, I'm just up to make this doublet (or whatever it's called): http://www.kazi.webz.cz/wagner/images/wag01-28.jpg =20 It's the second one from the left. It's taken from Medieval costume, = armor, and weapons, but originally it comes from the Wenceslas bible and it's = dated to the 1432, Bohemia. I would like the doublet to follow the shape of = the body, not very tight, just a little, but not too loose. My question is - = how can I achieve this WITHOUT a fastening? Is it possible? How tight can I = do the waistline when the man's chest/bust is around 100cm? Do you know any tricks about this? It might not be possible to do it without fastening, so my second = question is, where would a fastening for such a garment be? (I don't want the = front fastening). On the back? Or was there any at the sides? What would be = used? Lacing? Buttons? Hooks and eyes? Anything else? Many thanks to everyone who could give me some advice:-) Zuzana =20 --------------------------------- Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new = Car Finder tool. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 27 14:06:23 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RI6MId012259 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 14:06:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4RI68dQ022795 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 May 2007 14:06:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4RI5oMO068495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 27 May 2007 12:05:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RI5nw1093850; Sun, 27 May 2007 12:05:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf5.socket.net (mf5c.socket.net [216.106.26.211]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RI5k4w093819 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 12:05:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf5.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A76D4366F1 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 13:05:45 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1432 doublet - fastening? Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 13:05:50 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: <336225.77414.qm@web37509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2f5fd380-7bc9-4f00-8c24-1661811130d7 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 4659C890.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 27 May 2007 14:06:12 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO What you are wanting isn't a doublet, I believe it is a cotehardie. variation (scroll down) http://www.bymichelle.com/pp2123.html info http://www.geocities.com/ariedin/Men.html This is not a period I am an expert on but I believe that a few of the men's cotehardies were laced in the back but I an not 100% sure of my memory on it. De -----Original Message----- Hi, I'm just up to make this doublet (or whatever it's called): http://www.kazi.webz.cz/wagner/images/wag01-28.jpg It's the second one from the left. It's taken from Medieval costume, armor, and weapons, but originally it comes from the Wenceslas bible and it's dated to the 1432, Bohemia. I would like the doublet to follow the shape of the body, not very tight, just a little, but not too loose. My question is - how can I achieve this WITHOUT a fastening? Is it possible? How tight can I do the waistline when the man's chest/bust is around 100cm? Do you know any tricks about this? It might not be possible to do it without fastening, so my second question is, where would a fastening for such a garment be? (I don't want the front fastening). On the back? Or was there any at the sides? What would be used? Lacing? Buttons? Hooks and eyes? Anything else? Many thanks to everyone who could give me some advice:-) Zuzana --------------------------------- Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 27 14:59:54 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RIxsxK013589 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 14:59:54 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4RIxeJc025046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 May 2007 14:59:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4RIvl3j074221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 27 May 2007 12:57:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RIvh4i023256; Sun, 27 May 2007 12:57:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s4.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s4.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.140]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RIveeh023194 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 12:57:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.140.13]) by bay0-omc2-s4.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sun, 27 May 2007 11:57:35 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 27 May 2007 11:57:35 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 24.89.237.144 by BAY135-DAV3.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 27 May 2007 18:57:34 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.89.237.144] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com From: "kelly grant" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1432 doublet - fastening? Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 15:57:37 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 May 2007 18:57:35.0466 (UTC) FILETIME=[E36D14A0:01C7A090] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 754f42fe-83dc-4c87-bb68-97092c17b716 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 4659D51C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 27 May 2007 14:59:44 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I'm not sure about the lacing up the back idea with period garments...haven't seen any in early period garments, side back lacing in later, Rennaisance, garments, and not until the 17thC centre back lacing... But I could be wrong. Kelly ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 3:05 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1432 doublet - fastening? > What you are wanting isn't a doublet, I believe it is a cotehardie. > variation (scroll down) > http://www.bymichelle.com/pp2123.html > info > http://www.geocities.com/ariedin/Men.html > This is not a period I am an expert on but I believe that a few of the > men's cotehardies were laced in the back but I an not 100% sure of my > memory > on it. > > De > > -----Original Message----- > Hi, > > I'm just up to make this doublet (or whatever it's called): > > http://www.kazi.webz.cz/wagner/images/wag01-28.jpg > > It's the second one from the left. It's taken from Medieval costume, > armor, > and weapons, but originally it comes from the Wenceslas bible and it's > dated > to the 1432, Bohemia. I would like the doublet to follow the shape of the > body, not very tight, just a little, but not too loose. My question is - > how > can I achieve this WITHOUT a fastening? Is it possible? How tight can I do > the waistline when the man's chest/bust is around 100cm? Do you know any > tricks about this? > > It might not be possible to do it without fastening, so my second question > is, where would a fastening for such a garment be? (I don't want the front > fastening). On the back? Or was there any at the sides? What would be > used? > Lacing? Buttons? Hooks and eyes? Anything else? > > Many thanks to everyone who could give me some advice:-) > > Zuzana > > > --------------------------------- > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car > Finder tool. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 27 16:14:19 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RKEJqP015269 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 16:14:19 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4RKE49a019338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 May 2007 16:14:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4RKDa1F081250 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 27 May 2007 14:13:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RKDXBN064245; Sun, 27 May 2007 14:13:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RKDTLM064200 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 14:13:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A48DA2F60056; Sun, 27 May 2007 20:05:33 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 13:13:18 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c7a09b$7725f5e0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] Ruff question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: bebb04b4-5ccf-4530-b590-f5fda0ffef5c X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 4659E68D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 27 May 2007 16:14:08 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I want to make an Elizabethan ruff. I have some fine linen, but the selvedge is funky. Should I double the fabric, having a fold at the outside edge of the ruff or should I just hem the outside edge with a narrow hem? Sharon C. Young lovers seek perfection, Old lovers learn the art of sewing shreds together And of seeing beauty in a multiplicity of patches - "How To Make An American Quilt" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 27 16:26:44 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RKQiB4015559 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 16:26:44 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4RKQTfE012753 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 May 2007 16:26:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4RKQ9JD082443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 27 May 2007 14:26:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RKQ8Qp072727; Sun, 27 May 2007 14:26:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s2.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s2.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.74]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RKQ5CB072614 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 14:26:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([207.46.9.23]) by bay0-omc1-s2.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sun, 27 May 2007 13:26:00 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 27 May 2007 13:25:59 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 216.160.220.183 by BAY119-DAV13.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 27 May 2007 20:25:55 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [216.160.220.183] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] X-Sender: saragracetk@msn.com From: "WickedFrau" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ruff question Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 13:25:37 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c7a09d$2f93bf30$0601a8c0@Laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Thread-Index: Acegm8k9GNaPkMzwRiWXFvAN9DFBKwAAWBUg In-Reply-To: <000001c7a09b$7725f5e0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 May 2007 20:25:59.0451 (UTC) FILETIME=[3CD8F6B0:01C7A09D] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 3e63bb63-9019-49f9-9811-8418933c40a6 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 4659E976.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 27 May 2007 16:26:33 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I'd double it. Sg -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sharon Collier Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 1:13 PM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Ruff question I want to make an Elizabethan ruff. I have some fine linen, but the selvedge is funky. Should I double the fabric, having a fold at the outside edge of the ruff or should I just hem the outside edge with a narrow hem? Sharon C. Young lovers seek perfection, Old lovers learn the art of sewing shreds together And of seeing beauty in a multiplicity of patches - "How To Make An American Quilt" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 27 17:12:51 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RLCpkO016657 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 17:12:51 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4RLCben002937 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 May 2007 17:12:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4RLCAFp087288 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 27 May 2007 15:12:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RLC91g095468; Sun, 27 May 2007 15:12:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32212.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32212.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.143]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4RLC3fL095363 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 15:12:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sstormwatch@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 24903 invoked by uid 60001); 27 May 2007 21:11:58 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=sfrzItJyCxWdHFj3v0R1SZVnbbzHqzYl4YMJFM5NCfVAH784oU476nMrMB0ONm2WRX6+bQPZzMvGOlSmr78wy2370IEc2fru6PwEqFCjUMg4nxEYqA/NaBRLheNoJpv1Snh3edUcYCmrN5aRqYaBGQV33EugzJ8Wietrorc+9jY=; X-YMail-OSG: .i113p4VM1k1MMU.wMxzpWYWaWZG.oLleyS5s9Po1PNgLInbdIYS6ZJd6Ze30esl6oNyOxUyW3GONw.1p_B7TfZ05C8nlCPBPE6BAI2KIvCev9Hs.hUUzjNNnueL3A-- Received: from [129.8.204.63] by web32212.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 27 May 2007 14:11:58 PDT Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 14:11:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Testing... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <621500.20150.qm@web32212.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=12% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 3789403f-8f63-48c8-a388-79fd0660dbdb X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 4659F445.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 27 May 2007 17:12:41 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO It's the holiday weekend. Kimiko --- Saragrace Knauf wrote: > Sure is quiet out there lately. ____________________________________________________________________________________Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 27 18:46:52 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RMkqFM019293 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 18:46:52 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4RMkcft007197 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 May 2007 18:46:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4RMk9j6096111 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 27 May 2007 16:46:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RMk5le040537; Sun, 27 May 2007 16:46:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4RMk2CP040483 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 16:46:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECE15D0691 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 17:45:56 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <465A0A4E.5040207@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 17:46:38 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1432 doublet - fastening? References: <336225.77414.qm@web37509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <336225.77414.qm@web37509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1b13edd6-9b83-43b6-8672-06d17dcf8394 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 465A0A4E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 27 May 2007 18:46:42 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: > > > http://www.kazi.webz.cz/wagner/images/wag01-28.jpg > > It might not be possible to do it without fastening, so my second question is, where would a fastening for such a garment be? (I don't want the front fastening). On the back? Or was there any at the sides? What would be used? Lacing? Buttons? Hooks and eyes? Anything else? > That's a very bad drawing. There would usually be buttons up the front, or laces. If you look at original pictures from the 1300's you will see them. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 27 20:09:29 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4S09S6e021656 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 20:09:28 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4S09EnF007648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 May 2007 20:09:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4S08BAC004092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 27 May 2007 18:08:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4S07htT077703; Sun, 27 May 2007 18:08:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4S06qH6077340 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 18:07:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m143.in-tch.com [216.166.191.143]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id l4RNq4B23986 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 17:52:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <001101c7a0bd$66e38b80$8fbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <336225.77414.qm@web37509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1432 doublet - fastening? Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 18:16:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 00707d55-b829-4844-9f4e-8bf4b6a86385 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 465A1DAA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 27 May 2007 20:09:18 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Why would you want to do it without fastenings? Also, your depictions pretty clearly show front openings, also--the one on the right has buttons. So why no front openings? If I were doing this outfit for a gentleman I knew, and wanted to stay away from front openings for whatever reason, I'd probably revert to a side lacing. I've got a personal example (photograph from Salisbury Cathedral in England), of a gentleman's tomb carving. It's 60-odd years prior to your intended outfit (person in question died in 1389), and in a different country to boot, but he's clearly wearing a fitted outer layer, and it's clearly laced shut on the sides, with a type of spiral lacing. You're going to need some sort of closures to get much of a fit for this sort of garment. --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zuzana Kraemerova" To: "h-costume" Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 10:51 AM Subject: [h-cost] 1432 doublet - fastening? > Hi, > > I'm just up to make this doublet (or whatever it's called): > > http://www.kazi.webz.cz/wagner/images/wag01-28.jpg > > It's the second one from the left. It's taken from Medieval costume, armor, and weapons, but originally it comes from the Wenceslas bible and it's dated to the 1432, Bohemia. I would like the doublet to follow the shape of the body, not very tight, just a little, but not too loose. My question is - how can I achieve this WITHOUT a fastening? Is it possible? How tight can I do the waistline when the man's chest/bust is around 100cm? Do you know any tricks about this? > > It might not be possible to do it without fastening, so my second question is, where would a fastening for such a garment be? (I don't want the front fastening). On the back? Or was there any at the sides? What would be used? Lacing? Buttons? Hooks and eyes? Anything else? > > Many thanks to everyone who could give me some advice:-) > > Zuzana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 27 20:14:15 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4S0EE7D021800 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 20:14:14 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4S0E0C2011099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 May 2007 20:14:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4S0DgwS004517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 27 May 2007 18:13:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4S0Dfi1080375; Sun, 27 May 2007 18:13:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4S0DcaE080346 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 18:13:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m143.in-tch.com [216.166.191.143]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id l4RNwoB24917 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 17:58:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <001b01c7a0be$58eb6240$8fbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Testing... Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 18:22:58 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 63bade0d-3377-4d42-8969-f7e80949159d X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 465A1EC8.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 27 May 2007 20:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO 3-day weekend in the U.S. I'd imagine a lot of us are off doing family stuff, camping, etc. I've just come back from seeing Pirates3, myself....lots of fun. Obligatory Costume Content: I, myself, am spending a good part of the weekend getting my garb ready for SCA tourney season....Mending, finishing hems, finally making that outer garment I swore I didn't want to do without for another year....;o) --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "h-costume" Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 9:01 AM Subject: [h-cost] Testing... > Sure is quiet out there lately. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 27 20:24:46 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4S0OjuG022173 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 20:24:45 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4S0OVR2013338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 May 2007 20:24:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4S0NHCI005851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 27 May 2007 18:23:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4S0NG97085213; Sun, 27 May 2007 18:23:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4S0NCIR085149 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 18:23:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBBB0D06AB for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 19:23:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <465A2114.5050908@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 19:23:48 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Testing... References: <001b01c7a0be$58eb6240$8fbfa6d8@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <001b01c7a0be$58eb6240$8fbfa6d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: acc44d73-45a8-44ff-b688-013bbc4f5d68 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 465A213F.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 27 May 2007 20:24:35 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Sue Clemenger wrote: > 3-day weekend in the U.S. I'd imagine a lot of us are off doing family > stuff, camping, etc. I've just come back from seeing Pirates3, > myself....lots of fun. Rewiring the electrical in the bedroom. I'll be able to SEE when I cut out my fabric, and when I'm digging in the back of the closet for stored costumes. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 27 20:55:17 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4S0tGJV023165 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 20:55:16 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4S0t2hY028137 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 May 2007 20:55:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4S0sR1J008713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 27 May 2007 18:54:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4S0sPn0099003; Sun, 27 May 2007 18:54:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from relay2.netspeed.com.au (relay2.netspeed.com.au [202.78.47.27]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4S0sK5q098879 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 18:54:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@netspeed.com.au) Received: from netspeed.com.au (unverified [202.78.47.28]) by NSmailstor (SurgeMail 3.8i3) with ESMTP id 17694389-1928045 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 10:53:09 +1000 Received: from netspeed.com.au (unverified [203.130.164.2]) by NSmailstor (SurgeMail 3.8g) with ESMTP id 65536641-1928045 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 10:45:54 +1000 Received: from 203.10.77.190 by HTTP From: "garden@netspeed.com.au" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ruff question X-Mailer: Quality Web Email v3.1r X-Originating-IP: 203.10.77.190 Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 10:55:00 +1000 Message-id: <465a2864.20d.6e06.606851693@netspeed.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-X-Authenticated-User: garden@netspeed.com.au X-X-SpamDetect: : 0.000000 X-Info: aspam skipped due to (g_smite_skip_auth) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: da825cb9-da3f-41b1-bc8d-2cd8d851e09b X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 465A2866.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 27 May 2007 20:55:06 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I double mine and put a medium fishing line in the folded edge using the zipper foot. I also starched the linen first. Cheers, Aylwen http://www.bordonia.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "WickedFrau" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ruff question Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 13:25:37 -0700 > I'd double it. > Sg > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sharon > Collier Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 1:13 PM > To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Ruff question > > I want to make an Elizabethan ruff. I have some fine linen > , but the selvedge is funky. Should I double the fabric, > having a fold at the outside edge of the ruff or should > I just hem the outside edge with a narrow hem? Sharon C. > > > Young lovers seek perfection, > Old lovers learn the art of sewing shreds together > And of seeing beauty in a multiplicity of patches > > > > - "How To Make An American Quilt" > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 27 21:48:03 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4S1m3P4024888 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 21:48:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4S1lnUV032169 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 May 2007 21:47:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4S1lEQL014516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 27 May 2007 19:47:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4S1lB9b022690; Sun, 27 May 2007 19:47:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web51312.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web51312.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.39.122]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4S1l80W022642 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 19:47:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 32756 invoked by uid 60001); 28 May 2007 01:47:02 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=vRk+KOAP7iAqyXwyDl0Vf8OqYhOfMe0KkKOoIMvT9/UECUZiWTzPV7RmyVUw27ACvm4fjLjQJe0KhRwCROMK1ffNYjpJzPHCLfjqplpeYFWkFRgzaX6/5apUG67R/OT6mqpOYCHLb32SzQEU6Ey6aAqsRQlDZ8KN89hWMpjZrKc=; X-YMail-OSG: lYd7D64VM1mkelD227IWtgPA7OKIPVQaR6Km9ZChqkxAgVZSXGmTuY.3GBGA5aI_pcMiatok7GY0FG7uT6.gFLUdZHgP2oSJ42Fp6IRxG8LJsUhncqk- Received: from [69.183.26.228] by web51312.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 27 May 2007 18:47:02 PDT Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 18:47:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <336225.77414.qm@web37509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <801012.31924.qm@web51312.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=13% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: 1432 doublet - fastening? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 246a64c5-b944-4640-8498-206d989fdc74 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 465A34C5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 27 May 2007 21:47:53 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO It is my gut instinct that the front fastening was probably lacing and just was not depicted. Men can have quite a tapered waist, but what it's tapering from isn't as 'squishy' as a women. This is common on depictions of women's tightly fitting garments, that the lacing was not shown when it was closed. The lacing was merely a functional element and not a decorative one. (This is based on Robin Netherton's work largely, but also on what I've seen in ms. illuminations.) I have never seen any depiction before, maybe 1480s ?? (purely memory here for dates) of any back lacing garment, and that was in Italy. Side fastenings may have had a brief vogue in the thirteenth century (the 'bliaut') and are sometimes shown as a letting-out device on a pregnant woman (the Visitation of Mary to Elizabeth). Where you might see any fastenings shown at all is on allegorical depictions of The Fountain of Youth or a mass baptism, occasionally a swimming scene, where someone is stripping on shore. Naturally, these allegorical scenes have to be used cautiously. I believe a very flexible man or one who does not taper sharply along his trapezius muscles may achieve a similar look, but generally, either tight or pull-over. Ann in CT --- Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: > I'm just up to make this doublet (or whatever it's > called): > > http://www.kazi.webz.cz/wagner/images/wag01-28.jpg > > It's the second one from the left. originally > it comes from the Wenceslas bible and it's dated to > the 1432, Bohemia. I would like the doublet to > follow the shape of the body, not very tight, just a > little, but not too loose. My question is - how can > I achieve this WITHOUT a fastening? > > It might not be possible to do it without fastening, > so my second question is, where would a fastening > for such a garment be? (I don't want the front > fastening). On the back? Or was there any at the > sides? What would be used? Lacing? Buttons? Hooks > and eyes? Anything else? > > Zuzana ____________________________________________________________________________________Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 27 23:39:20 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4S3dJhT028484 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 23:39:20 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4S3d550028651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 27 May 2007 23:39:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4S3cQ3c025400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 27 May 2007 21:38:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4S3cLim072973; Sun, 27 May 2007 21:38:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mf4h.socket.net [216.106.88.205]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4S3cIdg072930 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 21:38:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A1BC33804C for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 22:38:17 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: 1432 doublet - fastening? Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 22:38:21 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: <801012.31924.qm@web51312.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: caf4f7d9-33db-48a2-8700-e33218947f48 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 465A4ED9.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 27 May 2007 23:39:09 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO You can find back lacing on gowns from Henry the 7th period (early tudor)in England and France. Rare but it did exist. -----Original Message----- It is my gut instinct that the front fastening was probably lacing and just was not depicted. Men can have quite a tapered waist, but what it's tapering from isn't as 'squishy' as a women. This is common on depictions of women's tightly fitting garments, that the lacing was not shown when it was closed. The lacing was merely a functional element and not a decorative one. (This is based on Robin Netherton's work largely, but also on what I've seen in ms. illuminations.) I have never seen any depiction before, maybe 1480s ?? (purely memory here for dates) of any back lacing garment, and that was in Italy. Side fastenings may have had a brief vogue in the thirteenth century (the 'bliaut') and are sometimes shown as a letting-out device on a pregnant woman (the Visitation of Mary to Elizabeth). Where you might see any fastenings shown at all is on allegorical depictions of The Fountain of Youth or a mass baptism, occasionally a swimming scene, where someone is stripping on shore. Naturally, these allegorical scenes have to be used cautiously. I believe a very flexible man or one who does not taper sharply along his trapezius muscles may achieve a similar look, but generally, either tight or pull-over. Ann in CT --- Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: > > http://www.kazi.webz.cz/wagner/images/wag01-28.jpg > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 28 01:40:23 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4S5eN33000460 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 01:40:23 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4S5e881024859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 May 2007 01:40:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4S5df5t037769 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 27 May 2007 23:39:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4S5dbvX029454; Sun, 27 May 2007 23:39:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.200.83]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4S5dXV9029400 for ; Sun, 27 May 2007 23:39:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy4@comcast.net) Message-Id: <200705280539.l4S5dXV9029400@net.indra.com> Received: from stuckis.comcast.net (c-71-207-16-152.hsd1.pa.comcast.net[71.207.16.152]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2007052805392801300itiike>; Mon, 28 May 2007 05:39:28 +0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 01:39:06 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Dianne & Greg Stucki Subject: Re: [h-cost] Testing... In-Reply-To: <001b01c7a0be$58eb6240$8fbfa6d8@pavilion> References: <001b01c7a0be$58eb6240$8fbfa6d8@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: de5dc3d3-8ad0-48b6-ab56-9d8c06e3e702 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 465A6B38.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 28 May 2007 01:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At 08:22 PM 5/27/2007, you wrote: >Obligatory Costume Content: I, myself, am spending a good part of the >weekend getting my garb ready for SCA tourney season....Mending, finishing >hems, finally making that outer garment I swore I didn't want to do without >for another year....;o) >--Sue And I am frantically getting ready to buy linen for Pennsic undies...I have a feeling I'm really going to miss that extra week this year! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 28 05:32:02 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4S9W1pj017092 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 05:32:02 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4S9VawQ012053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 May 2007 05:31:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4S9V013058325 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 May 2007 03:31:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4S9UuY6031920; Mon, 28 May 2007 03:30:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web23110.mail.ird.yahoo.com (web23110.mail.ird.yahoo.com [217.146.189.50]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4S9UpJT031829 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 03:30:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 36280 invoked by uid 60001); 28 May 2007 09:30:46 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=6diyo2HxwxVi9is8OiHBtBsTAcfiS7gRS23rS+GuFBBn40od1ARo87dzlP0+mDGUtcmds1ctEPNjagvsKvHEta3Yoa5Lglnq5/xAUNOegXUgLiuUUpewCZWG6rhEpa5+9oCuBq+gYbJ/3c9R4ljw1WOHDmqvEnD7qKoa8qwfhes=; X-YMail-OSG: _Z6VZVYVM1mrum7OEDZe95XttRaZzOskdOCKeaD5DsgjvS4uZJRAmyZLh.aMVnwxHyQqzqUZ8ky_gbxz0BWQb0YNm3UM2EiVztuCg7968yK9HZWe Received: from [87.244.91.3] by web23110.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 28 May 2007 10:30:45 BST Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 10:30:45 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <465A2114.5050908@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <83310.26817.qm@web23110.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=19% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] What R U doing this weekend ?- was "Testing..." X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f12c93d2-7dde-4217-9a39-2aee7fb31110 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 465AA178.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 28 May 2007 05:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Dawn wrote: Sue Clemenger wrote: > 3-day weekend in the U.S. I'd imagine a lot of us are off doing family stuff, camping, etc. I've just come back from seeing Pirates3, myself....lots of fun.< Rewiring the electrical in the bedroom. I'll be able to SEE when I cut out my fabric, and when I'm digging in the back of the closet for stored costumes. COMMENT It's a 3-day weekend here in the Anglo-Norman Isles, too. Mixed weather as is usual for an English May Holdiay weekend - "Farmers fear unkindly May, Frost by night and hail by day - - -"- Saturday was sunny, yesterday sunny with showers including some hail, overnight storm is still blowing hard and showering this morning; - and I now wish I'd laid-out our sleeping tent yesterday and brushed-off the canvas before re-folding everything into tighter bundles for next weekend's travelling to the mainland UK. Over here, May is a month with 2 "Bank-Holiday Mondays", and May 9th is our Isles' "1945 Liberation Day Anniversary Celebration" - so work-wise and wages-wise - it's a "short month". My House is sorting equipment and pre-packing - to travel to the UK Mainland to take part in West Dragonshire's "Winchester Pilgrimage" [weekend June 1st to 3rd] see some pictures at http://www.westdragonshire.org/pilgrimage - based upon the medieval "Almshouses & Hospital of St Cross", [Winchester, Hampshire, UK,] - which latter is a group of almost unaltered medieval buildings continuously-occupied by the Brothers Of St. Cross since it's Foundation. The location has almost no anachronisms in view once through the gateway; and the Brothers all wear monkish robes, too, as "daily-garb", - which helps the "effort of belief". Next Saturday morning's 3 hrs pilgrimage walk will be along the path through the watermeadows beside the River Itchen, finishing-up at Winchester Cathedral; and then walking back to St Cross. Satruday night's Feast will be held in the Hospital's medieval "Hundred Mens' Hall". IMHO, this will be one of the two events in Drachenwald this year [the other wil be "Ffair Raglan III" ] at which Society members will be able most easily - and with minimum effort of imagination - to experience those rare & precious moments when one may look round and think one's self back in the medieval Period. So for my Lady and I this weekend will continue to be a weekend of happy anticipation, and pre-packing equipment. YiS, Matthew Baker _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 28 09:04:57 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SD4u3f015315 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 09:04:56 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4SD4gNQ011823 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 May 2007 09:04:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4SD499e081600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 May 2007 07:04:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SD40KP037415; Mon, 28 May 2007 07:04:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pathfinder.systems.viatel.net (pathfinder.systems.viatel.net [135.196.68.12]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SD3tWZ037359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 07:03:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from serena@pemberleydesigns.co.uk) Received: from [135.196.230.193] (helo=SERENA) by pathfinder.systems.viatel.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hset8-0004S2-OR for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Mon, 28 May 2007 14:03:54 +0100 From: "Serena Dyer" To: Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 14:03:47 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Subject: [h-cost] Printed Cotton X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 07ebd5cf-b3d7-4254-a524-edc7c8300cc5 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 465AD36A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 28 May 2007 09:04:46 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I found some suprisingly authentic printed cotton at my local fabric suppliers and I had to have it. However there was only roughly 1.5-2m. Any ideas about what I could do with it? Thanks Serena Dyer http://www.pemberleydesigns.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 28 09:27:27 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SDRRUl015964 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 09:27:27 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4SDRCYW026797 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 May 2007 09:27:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4SDQomc084021 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 May 2007 07:26:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SDQmNG049928; Mon, 28 May 2007 07:26:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web51307.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web51307.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.38.173]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4SCrWup031845 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 06:53:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 58187 invoked by uid 60001); 28 May 2007 12:53:27 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=UfzMnfMb4BJPtsx/EaFkOerQWIJZkbZlSg7b8ilxlXqYjhVBG1Ulz6me4G+ccJXyaX8pjlOaezzHv4NbPu/jcNDHEALoqiB/5AQP0uYFBWdMGBt/ISdkhn2mxisaaZmgxJgsPEXVXXXzPVHRq7kSTddw3LmLtoa5W6IRtYwizyU=; X-YMail-OSG: g11MeTUVM1nIiDXa_yM0usaRGJe6WL5yO3kNtq9_Gjx64VSHoaBZ_3orU9ZuGbFV6z.Q8zLAqMB4_vtEAIjzN_1g88k1_fL4IdmYroBQd9lYMNytEaOZV4oiGll4hbv16Tn2YWvuGG.DuGJ4Y8hnpWUv9w-- Received: from [69.183.26.228] by web51307.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 28 May 2007 05:53:26 PDT Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 05:53:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <90274.57525.qm@web51307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=20% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Re: 1432 doublet - fastening? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 83e18a1a-4b7c-415d-9948-cf18f1cbc21b X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 465AD8B0.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 28 May 2007 09:27:16 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO And Henry VII was born in 1457, and ruled from 1485-1509. (Great Scott, I remembered a date!) So, significantly later than the query garment, so far as I can tell. Ann in CT --- otsisto wrote: > You can find back lacing on gowns from Henry the 7th > period (early tudor)in > England and France. Rare but it did exist. > > -----Original Message----- > > I have never seen any depiction before, maybe 1480s > ?? > (purely memory here for dates) of any back lacing > > Ann in CT > > --- Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: ____________________________________________________________________________________Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 28 09:58:19 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SDwJdo016746 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 09:58:19 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4SDw56X015954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 May 2007 09:58:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4SDthSE086872 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 May 2007 07:55:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SDtfh1065658; Mon, 28 May 2007 07:55:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SDtc92065595 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 07:55:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m230.in-tch.com [216.166.191.230]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id l4SDeoB18297 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 07:40:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <000d01c7a131$2e5d89e0$e6bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Printed Cotton Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 08:04:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 90457930-7be4-46f6-9e98-91e50a8e4857 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 465ADFED.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 28 May 2007 09:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Authentic for what? (time period, basically)....Knowing a bit more would give us a better base from which to offer advice. ;o) --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena Dyer" To: Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 7:03 AM Subject: [h-cost] Printed Cotton > I found some suprisingly authentic printed cotton at my local fabric > suppliers and I had to have it. However there was only roughly 1.5-2m. Any > ideas about what I could do with it? > > Thanks > > Serena Dyer > http://www.pemberleydesigns.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 28 10:16:09 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SEG9m7017189 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 10:16:09 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4SEFtq1026059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 May 2007 10:15:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4SEEopC089162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 May 2007 08:14:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SEEmgR076531; Mon, 28 May 2007 08:14:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts7.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.165]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SEEjvr076398 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 08:14:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stagefright@nf.sympatico.ca) Received: from peggyc65fc7eed ([142.163.28.202]) by simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with SMTP id <20070528141436.XVME8080.simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@peggyc65fc7eed> for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 10:14:36 -0400 Message-ID: <002f01c7a132$8b46d3e0$ca1ca38e@peggyc65fc7eed> From: "Peggy Hogan" To: Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 11:14:44 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] 16th century Spain X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 3b5ee2ab-85fe-431b-91ef-96f80aa5c4e1 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 465AE41B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 28 May 2007 10:15:59 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi,=20 Can anyone tell me how to get in touch with Maddalena Jessamyn di = Piemonte, OL I'm researching 16th century Spanish Basque dress many thanks _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 28 10:37:30 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SEbUd7017902 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 10:37:30 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4SEbFkx016957 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 May 2007 10:37:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4SEaexY091392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 May 2007 08:36:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SEadLJ089141; Mon, 28 May 2007 08:36:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SEaaBQ089042 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 08:36:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.c34.133e8177 (57365) for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 10:36:25 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 10:36:25 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Printed Cotton To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.0 VR sub 165 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 44a54739-0171-489d-840a-5f032dabb3b5 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 465AE91B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 28 May 2007 10:37:19 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/28/2007 9:05:46 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, serena@pemberleydesigns.co.uk writes: However there was only roughly 1.5-2m. Any ideas about what I could do with it? I'm presuming you mean early 19th c.? There are two spencerlike cotton print tops in the Western Reserve Historical Society collection, and I have seen a couple of other printed cotton spencer/jacket/bodice garments in collections. Ann Wass ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 28 11:02:06 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SF25nK018603 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 11:02:05 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4SF1pbB027360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 May 2007 11:01:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4SF0uXT094732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 May 2007 09:00:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SF0thI007140; Mon, 28 May 2007 09:00:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep34.mail.dk (fep34.mail.dk [80.160.76.198]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SF0oT2007048 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 09:00:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep43.mail.dk ([195.41.46.226]) by fep34.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070528150046.PWAP1140.fep34.mail.dk@fep43.mail.dk> for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 17:00:46 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.237]) by fep43.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070528150046.OXDN1148.fep43.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 17:00:46 +0200 Message-ID: <002201c7a138$fe49d300$ed43a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 17:00:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep43.mail.dk from [80.161.67.237] at Mon, 28 May 2007 17:00:44 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=26% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] article in Inspirations magazine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4564919a-b924-487c-8fc6-43d2ef17197e X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 465AEEDF.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 28 May 2007 11:01:55 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Dear list, I just wanted to say, that i am sorry i have told you the wrong issue, my article with embroidery in Inspirations magazine is not 55 but issue 56 wich is due out in the end of October. They have allocated 3 pages for my story with pictures........... Sorry for the bummer.............. Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 28 13:20:48 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SHKllj022649 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 13:20:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4SHKXYb024024 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 May 2007 13:20:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4SHJcdC014314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 May 2007 11:19:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SHJVwX095011; Mon, 28 May 2007 11:19:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mf4h.socket.net [216.106.88.205]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SHJRSh094943 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 11:19:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6B67E38041 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 12:19:24 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Re: 1432 doublet - fastening? Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 12:19:29 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: <90274.57525.qm@web51307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: e3f418d9-2756-49fb-b28d-4aaff129b307 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 465B0F61.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 28 May 2007 13:20:37 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO As was said, I am not an expert on this period. I remember when the discussion of the cotehardie and sideless surcoat from Simplicity (3888?) came up it was noted about the fastenings in the back and someone who is an expert in the period (was it Robin?) had stated that back closures were seen with these gowns. Now from this info, whether back closure was done on men's garments of the period I can only say it is a probability. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 28 13:32:43 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SHWhZO023007 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 13:32:43 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4SHWT4q003929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 May 2007 13:32:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4SHW6Me016388 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 May 2007 11:32:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SHW5ZI003921; Mon, 28 May 2007 11:32:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ruby.spiritone.com (ruby.spiritone.com [216.99.193.130]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SHW1Ip003871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 11:32:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by ruby.spiritone.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l4SHW0Gf016794 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 10:32:01 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] What R U doing this weekend ?- was "Testing..." Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 11:33:41 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <83310.26817.qm@web23110.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1896 Importance: Normal X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ad54934e-ceb1-4187-9c4c-d74b2c4298f7 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 465B122D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 28 May 2007 13:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Julian/Matthew I envy you from the bottom of my heart! Just got back from Germany with photos, "Flea Market Stuff", and the worst respiratory Virus I have every had and moved to tell about it. The trip planners brought it especially from Old Virginia to infect the raging pack of us. Lubeck to Nuremberg with a long stop in Quedlinburg and Goslar for Walpurgisnacht (Night on Bald Mountain for those Fantasia Fans). Unfortunately no Drachenwald events, and only the National German History Museum in Nuremberg. Still 16 cloudless days of perfect temperatures isn't something for a Visitor to cry about. The German farmers are doing that for the lack of rain this spring. Have a great time Regina Romsey, 5th Viscountess Drachenwald > > My House is sorting equipment and pre-packing - to travel to > the UK Mainland to take part in West Dragonshire's "Winchester > Pilgrimage" [weekend June 1st to 3rd] see some pictures at > http://www.westdragonshire.org/pilgrimage > - based upon the medieval "Almshouses & Hospital of St Cross", > [Winchester, Hampshire, UK,] - which latter is a group of almost > unaltered medieval buildings continuously-occupied by the > Brothers Of St. Cross since it's Foundation. > The location has almost no anachronisms in view once through > the gateway; and the Brothers all wear monkish robes, too, as > "daily-garb", - which helps the "effort of belief". > Next Saturday morning's 3 hrs pilgrimage walk will be along the > path through the watermeadows beside the River Itchen, > finishing-up at Winchester Cathedral; and then walking back to St Cross. > Satruday night's Feast will be held in the Hospital's medieval > "Hundred Mens' Hall". > IMHO, this will be one of the two events in Drachenwald this > year [the other wil be "Ffair Raglan III" ] at which Society > members will be able most easily - and with minimum effort of > imagination - to experience those rare & precious moments when > one may look round and think one's self back in the medieval Period. > So for my Lady and I this weekend will continue to be a weekend > of happy anticipation, and pre-packing equipment. > > YiS, > Matthew Baker > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 28 14:07:59 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SI7xMQ024319 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 14:07:59 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4SI7jYP011279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 May 2007 14:07:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4SI79IT020949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 May 2007 12:07:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SI77oU026308; Mon, 28 May 2007 12:07:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03.nyroc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.nyroc.rr.com [24.24.2.57]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SI74U1026284 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 12:07:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from tigg@twcny.rr.com) Received: from ByrneComputer (cpe-72-230-126-54.twcny.res.rr.com [72.230.126.54]) by ms-smtp-03.nyroc.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l4SI6rph015345 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 14:07:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jennifer Byrne" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: Re: [h-cost] hand rolling hems Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 14:06:50 -0400 Message-ID: <000501c7a152$f7393460$367ee648@ByrneComputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Thread-Index: AcehUvbhUCIaEqP5SPm18+iXTfS4Yw== X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=15% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a780abfc-5cf9-47c7-ae54-56c1c97196fe X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 465B1A71.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 28 May 2007 14:07:49 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On page 5 of this site there is a diagram about how to do the hand-rolling that Robin mentioned: http://www.ca.uky.edu/fcs/FACTSHTS/CT-MMB-179.pdf (And if this message doesn't reply properly to this group - I'm completely at fault! This is my first post. . . ) Jennifer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 28 14:22:11 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SIMAC4024849 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 14:22:10 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4SILu5m020390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 May 2007 14:21:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4SILG35023279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 May 2007 12:21:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SILDwG036927; Mon, 28 May 2007 12:21:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SIL9pt036849 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 12:21:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.c41.172bef0c (42807) for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 14:20:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 14:20:51 EDT Subject: RE: [h-cost] What R U doing this weekend ?- was "Testing..." To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9d633c58-d454-4368-ac95-026979b4070a X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 465B1DC4.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 28 May 2007 14:22:00 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Stuck working, just like the last bank holiday weekend.... ....making the prom dress from hell.... ....oh well, will be pretty once it's done (lilac satin, rhinestone tulle overlay, silver applique, and one shoulder stra with lilac and clear rhinestones). Kind of glad not at an event this weekend - just found out half the re-enactment events in the country seem to have been either washed out or blown out. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 28 14:40:15 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SIeEHM025412 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 14:40:14 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4SIe0lG000705 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 May 2007 14:40:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4SIdRgR025514 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 May 2007 12:39:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SIdQ5Y049350; Mon, 28 May 2007 12:39:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep34.mail.dk (fep34.mail.dk [80.160.76.198]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SIdMpx049269 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 12:39:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep42.mail.dk ([195.41.46.225]) by fep34.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070528183912.XPQU1140.fep34.mail.dk@fep42.mail.dk> for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 20:39:12 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.237]) by fep42.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070528183912.PVUF1153.fep42.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 20:39:12 +0200 Message-ID: <001201c7a157$8590bb30$ed43a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 20:39:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep42.mail.dk from [80.161.67.237] at Mon, 28 May 2007 20:39:09 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=26% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] what are you doing this weekend. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a0c63291-bc6c-4ae0-bcc5-1c142e7bce4c X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 465B2200.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 28 May 2007 14:40:04 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Usually the danes goes out and have a lovely time saturday evening, and stay up late til the sun rises. Then we say we see the sun is dansing. Many in Copenhagen goes to some small gardens in Frederiksberg to eat lunch in the open air. Except me, who sits and sew all days. I have the deadline for the francaise dress wich my client comes and picks up friday.next week. This season has ben very buisy for me, making 3 costumes this past 4 months. Now i am going on a holliday soon on june 11th, longing to get time again for my embroidery. I have canseled some orders because i really cant cope with the demand, i have my own life to live two........ Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 28 16:54:30 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SKsUNL028591 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 16:54:30 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4SKsGFU030631 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 May 2007 16:54:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4SKrZTp041650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 May 2007 14:53:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SKrVLG036180; Mon, 28 May 2007 14:53:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth.cybermesa.com (smtpauth.cybermesa.com [65.19.4.28]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SKrSW4036115 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 14:53:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sovagris@cybermesa.com) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (75-162-20-217.desm.qwest.net [75.162.20.217]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtpauth.cybermesa.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4SKrMX5000437 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 14:53:23 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: <200705281800.l4SI0DWk022086@net.indra.com> References: <200705281800.l4SI0DWk022086@net.indra.com> Message-Id: <74A6826A-EED3-4CA7-973A-92C2443AE60C@cybermesa.com> From: Suzanne Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century Spain Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 15:53:21 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1ebb5765-a9d6-4a53-aa2a-1194c606b377 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 465B4178.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 28 May 2007 16:54:19 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Have you tried this link? http://jessamynscloset.com/ It's the only one I have -- but the site hasn't been updated recently so I wonder if she's moved elsewhere? HTH, Suzanne On May 28, 2007, at 1:00 PM, > From: "Peggy Hogan" > Date: May 28, 2007 9:14:44 AM CDT > To: > Subject: [h-cost] 16th century Spain > > > Hi, > > Can anyone tell me how to get in touch with Maddalena Jessamyn di > Piemonte, OL > > I'm researching 16th century Spanish Basque dress > > many thanks _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 28 17:16:20 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SLGKZG028986 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 17:16:20 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4SLG67x008208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 May 2007 17:16:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4SLFVv5043655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 May 2007 15:15:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SLFR2v047766; Mon, 28 May 2007 15:15:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts7.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.165]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SLFOqw047685 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 15:15:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stagefright@nf.sympatico.ca) Received: from peggyc65fc7eed ([142.163.22.157]) by simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with SMTP id <20070528211517.DAEF8080.simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@peggyc65fc7eed> for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 17:15:17 -0400 Message-ID: <002e01c7a16d$50cb0ca0$370ea38e@peggyc65fc7eed> From: "Peggy Hogan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200705281800.l4SI0DWk022086@net.indra.com> <74A6826A-EED3-4CA7-973A-92C2443AE60C@cybermesa.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century Spain Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 18:15:24 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: db54b9d9-bc32-4d9d-aefc-8988fb7e5846 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 465B4696.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 28 May 2007 17:16:10 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Yes but there's no e-mail address and the site hasn't been updated for a number of years. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzanne" To: Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 5:53 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century Spain > Have you tried this link? > > http://jessamynscloset.com/ > > It's the only one I have -- but the site hasn't been updated recently so > I wonder if she's moved elsewhere? > > HTH, > Suzanne > > On May 28, 2007, at 1:00 PM, > >> From: "Peggy Hogan" >> Date: May 28, 2007 9:14:44 AM CDT >> To: >> Subject: [h-cost] 16th century Spain >> >> >> Hi, >> >> Can anyone tell me how to get in touch with Maddalena Jessamyn di >> Piemonte, OL >> >> I'm researching 16th century Spanish Basque dress >> >> many thanks > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 28 17:59:45 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SLxjGM029959 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 17:59:45 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4SLxUEs011040 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 May 2007 17:59:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4SLwx3Z047209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 May 2007 15:58:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SLwuil070989; Mon, 28 May 2007 15:58:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pathfinder.systems.viatel.net (pathfinder.systems.viatel.net [135.196.68.12]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SLwpid070949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 15:58:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from serena@pemberleydesigns.co.uk) Received: from [135.196.230.193] (helo=SERENA) by pathfinder.systems.viatel.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HsnEo-0000c8-Uv for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Mon, 28 May 2007 22:58:51 +0100 From: "Serena Dyer" To: Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 22:58:49 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Subject: [h-cost] RE: Printed Cotton X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8e7c8045-f2a3-4c79-a81f-247043e11318 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 465B50C2.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 28 May 2007 17:59:34 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Yes, sorry, I meant authentic late 18th, early 19th century. Very similar to some ramoneur prints I've seen on late 18th century Robe A L'Anglais. Thanks Serena Dyer http://www.pemberleydesigns.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 28 19:05:11 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SN5A0s031326 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 19:05:10 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4SN4uHb029968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 May 2007 19:04:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4SN4M8u053884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 May 2007 17:04:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SN4ItS007364; Mon, 28 May 2007 17:04:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep35.mail.dk (fep35.mail.dk [80.160.76.199]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4SN4ENX007255 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 17:04:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep40.mail.dk ([195.41.46.140]) by fep35.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070528230406.DVGB1140.fep35.mail.dk@fep40.mail.dk> for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 01:04:06 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.237]) by fep40.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070528230332.QCYV1147.fep40.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 01:03:32 +0200 Message-ID: <000701c7a17c$81e98550$ed43a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 01:04:10 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep40.mail.dk from [80.161.67.237] at Tue, 29 May 2007 01:03:27 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=32% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 15th century purse X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a4699016-188a-41d6-9461-18a3d161c447 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 465B6018.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 28 May 2007 19:05:00 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi, Someone asked for sources for bag asessories, dont remember the word for it. I was browsing a swedish site and found this: http://www.handelsgillet.se/diverse.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 28 20:33:51 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4T0XoKw001196 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 20:33:50 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4T0Xabv025592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 May 2007 20:33:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4T0X39M062096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 May 2007 18:33:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4T0X0Sf049429; Mon, 28 May 2007 18:33:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.168]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4T0WXkE049233 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 18:32:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from michaela.de.bruce@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id z38so1020013ugc for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 17:32:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=cBEjNa+HSOX6dQT9jmTz+ASddkNYUhfi0Ws3KJJ63kThyNYYBTzr/Zm5rJ2PuBPgYQGUDZTuwRbFVIPs4ogduEbeCAxeukVi0Z7kCivbglx7xrio+0oTb8E2kZBtAKTqJNY9VksUux6rCTNw2VSCIBb3TDA6Knvpb/PLLClzLbc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=RfHErnLaYFDoS2sr+Pen60+VdqRcWHMy6updYTmbDiVPHP2JUl4Ht4UWwyt7KNYXxV4i70k5wLCXGeX1PAkm9tCFZnnDp8skyFZXLSPNzp/MRbGB3ET80rUhO1Uqagw6IxLSP1sIaL33TTaTMGZei/AvazSPtlWgQK+fGQ+peTQ= Received: by 10.78.190.10 with SMTP id n10mr1787913huf.1180398753246; Mon, 28 May 2007 17:32:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.158.14 with HTTP; Mon, 28 May 2007 17:32:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <73fb7a5f0705281732l295065s51626e386c97f2fc@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 12:32:33 +1200 From: "michaela de bruce" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] What R U doing this weekend MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=12% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 77ca5516-077f-41d1-b0d8-11ef4a4d12df X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 465B74E0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 28 May 2007 20:33:40 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Unfortunately this weekend was spent moving into a rental accomodation. We had a house fire in April and have only just been able to find and move into a temporary house while ours is rebuilt. http://www.flickr.com/photos/91424360@N00/sets/72157600199783344/ You may be able to tell that there is a fair bit of work to do and we are probably looking at moving back around Christmas. Next weekend (which is a holiday weekend here in NZ, I think the whole Commonwealth, Queen's Birthday Weekend) I will be sewing up a storm for my elevation to the Order of the Laurel as I have not really had a chance to sit and sew for it yet. I have my bodice and sleeves and an accessory patterned, the skirt is really simple but time consuming and I am thinking of making a cloak as well. http://pinkdiamond.livejournal.com/695549.html This is the inspiration portrait, and if you click the "tag" "midwinter" you will find all my posts about it. Michaela de Bruce http://glittersweet.com Yes my costumes were in the house, no they weren't burnt but they were smoke andheat damaged to some degree but most have been salvageable. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 28 20:44:10 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4T0iAlk001448 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 20:44:10 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4T0htdr024597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 May 2007 20:43:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4T0f2HR062838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 May 2007 18:41:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4T0f2pk053376; Mon, 28 May 2007 18:41:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4T0ew9O053354 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 18:41:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31339) id <01MH5PQM34G0C01E4H@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 May 2007 12:40:51 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] (rcmt-cad45.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.4.133]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31339) with ESMTP id <01MH5PQL1XS0BXIPK4@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 29 May 2007 12:40:49 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 12:40:34 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] What R U doing this weekend In-reply-to: <73fb7a5f0705281732l295065s51626e386c97f2fc@mail.gmail.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <465B7682.7030702@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) References: <73fb7a5f0705281732l295065s51626e386c97f2fc@mail.gmail.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 038ba5d3-d261-4a34-bfc0-c200ec71102f X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 465B774B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 28 May 2007 20:43:59 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO michaela de bruce wrote: > Next weekend (which is a holiday weekend here in NZ, I think the whole > Commonwealth, Queen's Birthday Weekend) Nope. Great Britain celebrates the Queen's Birthday in June, but on a different day. Canada doesn't have Queen's Birthday, but does continue to observe Queen Victoria's Birthday in May. Australian states have it variously in June (but on neither the NZ nor the British date) or in September/October. The Queen's birthday is _actually_ in April. Confused yet? :-) -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 28 20:59:37 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4T0xbgk001771 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 20:59:37 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4T0xNGJ025653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 May 2007 20:59:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4T0vqAv064432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 May 2007 18:57:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4T0vp1c061206; Mon, 28 May 2007 18:57:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.234]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4T0vnLx061185 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 18:57:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara.francesca@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id x7so1635972nzc for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 17:57:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:reply-to:from:to:references:subject:date:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-priority:x-msmail-priority:x-mailer:x-mimeole; b=M+lS0yDRTeNtPeGn3qvTys8JFN7QHzzUQEl3dhyDoRbK42+7cdkD4yqGZyjVTWJzD0C407LRlSl5dp+LleXq035tpAmxJ7k1/W7cLId/avv8IaZsxv3b513AVs5Kax5F5mgeu7gXc7AhhwE/aTZaOl6OA5UjwpDGEMcSlcMSNSI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:reply-to:from:to:references:subject:date:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-priority:x-msmail-priority:x-mailer:x-mimeole; b=c+B3ucMko9IAtpUzXshXigEwZ1++mC3DA9N+X0R1+EvS4fx38vOkK4EwvO5IHtrRB8JejkBsU/xhWfjQd3mxzHpEFyjRdS6wgxJP6+9aaxt5q0cYOWywd5qVUQrHSuTq6S4rXkvHl40io7v2OqSS31E5nc+T3ui5yqOb7LnS4jE= Received: by 10.65.150.18 with SMTP id c18mr11692882qbo.1180400268927; Mon, 28 May 2007 17:57:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CHESLAPTOP ( [76.185.38.68]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 20sm21186319nzp.2007.05.28.17.57.47; Mon, 28 May 2007 17:57:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <833601c7a18c$60dabdb0$6700050a@CHESLAPTOP> From: "Chiara Francesca" To: "Historical Costume" References: <83310.26817.qm@web23110.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] What R U doing this weekend ?- was "Testing..." Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 19:57:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 rep=8% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f38da42f-1a39-4e5c-ad30-0bef4189a17f X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 465B7AEB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 28 May 2007 20:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I co-ran a 4 day event called Steppes Warlord. We had 525 attendees. I am tired now ... Chiara Dallas Texas _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 28 21:50:22 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4T1oMXS002866 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 21:50:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4T1o808006488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 May 2007 21:50:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4T1nXeW070076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 May 2007 19:49:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4T1nUpY086801; Mon, 28 May 2007 19:49:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4T1nRFm086763 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 19:49:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m103.in-tch.com [216.166.191.103]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id l4T1YZB29675 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 19:34:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <000c01c7a194$e4a07060$67bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <73fb7a5f0705281732l295065s51626e386c97f2fc@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] What R U doing this weekend Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 19:58:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 104; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 3ddd4d7d-34ac-4dea-bf51-a374e6f02842 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 465B86D0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 28 May 2007 21:50:11 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Goodness! A house fire sounds dreadful! Good to hear that you survived, though! And congrats on the impending elevation (welcome to the Grove and all that ). The gown should be lovely--the inspiration portrait is a new one to me, but then, I'm only slightly familiar with 16th century German styles. What is the "krantz" that you're going to make? Is it a decoration on part of the dress? a hat or head covering of some sort? --Sue, who sometimes looks remarkably like someone named "Maire," who is an SCA member with all sorts of Official Alphabet Soup (for late-period embroidery, primarily) ----- Original Message ----- From: "michaela de bruce" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] What R U doing this weekend > Unfortunately this weekend was spent moving into a rental > accomodation. We had a house fire in April and have only just been > able to find and move into a temporary house while ours is rebuilt. > http://www.flickr.com/photos/91424360@N00/sets/72157600199783344/ > You may be able to tell that there is a fair bit of work to do and we > are probably looking at moving back around Christmas. > > Next weekend (which is a holiday weekend here in NZ, I think the whole > Commonwealth, Queen's Birthday Weekend) I will be sewing up a storm > for my elevation to the Order of the Laurel as I have not really had a > chance to sit and sew for it yet. I have my bodice and sleeves and an > accessory patterned, the skirt is really simple but time consuming and > I am thinking of making a cloak as well. > http://pinkdiamond.livejournal.com/695549.html > This is the inspiration portrait, and if you click the "tag" > "midwinter" you will find all my posts about it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 29 01:39:10 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4T5d9UN007543 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 01:39:10 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4T5ctBK015909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 May 2007 01:38:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4T5cL5I093385 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 28 May 2007 23:38:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4T5cH9q097394; Mon, 28 May 2007 23:38:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4T5cEos097362 for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 23:38:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27545 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 00:40:11 -0500 Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 00:40:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Re: 1432 doublet - fastening? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: be109fc7-c6f8-4d81-b32d-7942292df835 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 465BBC6F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 29 May 2007 01:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On Mon, 28 May 2007, otsisto wrote: > As was said, I am not an expert on this period. I remember when the > discussion of the cotehardie and sideless surcoat from Simplicity > (3888?) came up it was noted about the fastenings in the back and > someone who is an expert in the period (was it Robin?) had stated that > back closures were seen with these gowns. Sorry, I have never seen a back closure on a "cotehardie" style of fitted garment from this period (roughly 1350-1430). In fact, I can't think of a back opening on any garment from this period, at least in Western Europe. There are a substantial number of images in multiple media that show visible front fastenings (lacings for the basic garment, lacings or buttons for the optional overlayer that goes over the basic garment). The majority of images of fitted garments show no visible fastening at all. Because most of those images show front views, some modern viewers assume that this means the fastening must be in the back. Because I have never seen a visible back opening at all, I don't make this assumption. I think it is far more likely that most artists did not show the fastening when the gown was closed. This may be artistic choice (as some artists do show visible lacings even on closed gowns) or it could indicate that it was common for lacing to be hidden in the seam -- and seams in this time are also rarely shown. Supporting this, I feel certain I have seen some illustrations in which a front lacing was not shown on a closed garment but was visible in another scene (from the same manuscript) in which the garment was open (dressing scenes, etc.). I would have to go and dig through a lot of images to find an example, which will not be happening in the coming weeks as I am deeply snowed under. I have seen occasional side lacings -- very rare, and the one that comes to my mind immediately is northern Italian. It is, of course, possible that in Eastern Europe, things were done differently, but I'd be very hesitant to assume the presence of back openings. By the way, my thoughts on this have absolutely nothing to do with the oft-stated factoid that "upper-class people have servants to dress them and so have back openings, while people who aren't rich enough for servants have to manage with front openings." Most people lived in households with other people, presumably able to lace each other up if it were necessary, regardless of class. Moreover, visible front lacings are quite evident on plenty of images of queens (I can think of effigies and manuscripts), as well as on nobles, so clearly front lacing was not a sign of lower class or lack of money. --Robin catching up on e-mail after four days away _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 29 02:46:35 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4T6kWCS028577 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 02:46:32 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4T6kH2l012115 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 May 2007 02:46:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4T6jiDE099146 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 29 May 2007 00:45:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4T6jgOr028795; Tue, 29 May 2007 00:45:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.225]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4T6jcU7028739 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 00:45:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from michaela.de.bruce@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id r21so1500819wxc for ; Mon, 28 May 2007 23:45:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=NhDTxKULnz4qIDThVsUmYgXKFSBdOJjJI6QDM4HCnf3oC7fbiSUEfradH1vU0f3fkBp3D1u8zz8VzgxDGnpfb+3/cyrKAzEEWFRhAjhgiKtCEmuNGkFDvyA5yxupAeDELf/Tltxg4oFamkBdCszRiuQntbhKiLnbV9KighrFHwg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=OUCme8VXRyunBJswbXtMrr/hTkZ7lPpYEHq7FV1NTzeFm5ZacsVKiCNSr1EfyY0p2KBRpf8zdkOQ9wlLZdLtNU2u6oducFaYbn700ZQzAdhrc0sfM5aAFA/Vp/zKwko2xNQTkRF+XVmpKWqgGAoy++BsczXd3xjXq+I3k1XHLqQ= Received: by 10.78.159.7 with SMTP id h7mr1837706hue.1180421134718; Mon, 28 May 2007 23:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.158.14 with HTTP; Mon, 28 May 2007 23:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <73fb7a5f0705282345w1274df7lbd44b053af8969f0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 18:45:34 +1200 From: "michaela de bruce" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] What R U doing this weekend In-Reply-To: <000c01c7a194$e4a07060$67bfa6d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <73fb7a5f0705281732l295065s51626e386c97f2fc@mail.gmail.com> <000c01c7a194$e4a07060$67bfa6d8@pavilion> X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9883eb78-e85d-4e6c-89be-f0b89c8616af X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 465BCC39.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 29 May 2007 02:46:21 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > Goodness! A house fire sounds dreadful! Good to hear that you survived, > though! I was extremely lucky to have been away from home, I normally would have been in bed when it happened. > And congrats on the impending elevation (welcome to the Grove and all that > ). The gown should be lovely--the inspiration portrait is a new one to > me, but then, I'm only slightly familiar with 16th century German styles. Thank you:) It's a rather unique regional style, I'm a bit known now fr a *slight* obsesion with the Cleves style and the whole North Rhine- Westphalian style. The one in the portrait is one I have loved for a few years now and was thrilled to see a large size copy of it online. > --Sue, who sometimes looks remarkably like someone named "Maire," who is an > SCA member with all sorts of Official Alphabet Soup (for late-period > embroidery, primarily *grin* Willemyne has only a few letters after her name one of which already looks like OL;) Luckily that has changed to OGL! (Order of the Golden Lily rather than Order of the Lily.) I really need to decide on the translation of Mistress though. I need to decide on the Dutch or German translations. Michaela http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 29 05:16:51 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4T9Gopb017602 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 05:16:50 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4T9GZJ2001484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 May 2007 05:16:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4T9EpXQ010972 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 29 May 2007 03:14:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4T9ElSN096434; Tue, 29 May 2007 03:14:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (mail-out5.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.92]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4T9EhBj096363 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 03:14:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from localhost (webmail4.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.171]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 814C51713E3 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 19:14:41 +1000 (EST) Received: from 220-253-122-157.VIC.netspace.net.au (220-253-122-157.VIC.netspace.net.au [220.253.122.157]) by webmail.netspace.net.au (IMP) with HTTP for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 19:14:41 +1000 Message-ID: <1180430081.465bef019f1d4@webmail.netspace.net.au> Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 19:14:41 +1000 From: stilskin@netspace.net.au To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] hand rolling hems References: <000501c7a152$f7393460$367ee648@ByrneComputer> In-Reply-To: <000501c7a152$f7393460$367ee648@ByrneComputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=18% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5cbb8c68-1cdf-4f94-91a4-943d99266524 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 465BEF73.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 29 May 2007 05:16:39 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hello, Jennifer. Post is in so, so are you. Tell me, you the journo? -C. ------------------------------------------------------------ This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 29 09:37:08 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TDb8nq015998 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 09:37:08 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4TDareM002439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 May 2007 09:36:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4TDa0ae042067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 29 May 2007 07:36:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TDZsMJ044831; Tue, 29 May 2007 07:35:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TDZnLF044767 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 07:35:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m249.in-tch.com [216.166.191.249]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id l4TDL0B15316 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 07:21:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <000c01c7a1f7$946cc9a0$f9bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Re: 1432 doublet - fastening? Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 07:45:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7a9c00ac-52ed-4835-915b-c229d9ad67c8 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 465C2C75.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 29 May 2007 09:36:57 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO There's the one I've got, from the effigy in Salisbury (dated 1380...at least, that's when the gentleman in question died). Of course, that's on a gentleman's cote, and not a lady's. Still, quite definitely side-laced. If you want a copy of the photo for your collection, let me know, and I'd be glad to send it on.... --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 11:40 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Re: 1432 doublet - fastening? > > > I have seen occasional side lacings -- very rare, and the one that comes > to my mind immediately is northern Italian. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 29 09:43:52 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TDhqWK016112 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 09:43:52 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4TDhb5C028442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 May 2007 09:43:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4TDhK4D042868 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 29 May 2007 07:43:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TDhKMT050158; Tue, 29 May 2007 07:43:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TDhHhP050069 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 07:43:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.d3b.a2e2179 (58550) for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 09:43:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 09:42:58 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: What R U doing this weekend X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: e7cc3d9e-38b5-4525-9695-f69676d0be7a X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 465C2E09.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 29 May 2007 09:43:41 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO >The Queen's birthday is _actually_ in April. Confused >yet? actual birthday 21st april official birthday a saturday in june (it changes) - in the uk anyway... appraently it's all edward vii's fault... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 29 12:13:16 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TGDFVI020491 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 12:13:16 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4TGD1Oo030926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 May 2007 12:13:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4TG6wTZ066699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 29 May 2007 10:06:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TG6qUm078079; Tue, 29 May 2007 10:06:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web37510.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web37510.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.91.157]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4TG6l48077915 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 10:06:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from zkraemerova@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 25312 invoked by uid 60001); 29 May 2007 16:06:42 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=oUxXM0yZlBjsRSiJAaWFRqbH3PatrRIPH2BXRgKZ5/yMoRj7wvlF+w+mbKeEAWvammNxHIZ3gV2rymukhFMzFHVvYR8ZH9jLcYj5MbaG2yaXIiaQ8Y9mFAEEt+fTA2ZAhKkDL0T4TFco+kqLjd2LL6VcmInqDDV0svNFazmtyU8=; X-YMail-OSG: IWpVPxYVM1lCy_KwAfGx82iMH8sxzQv.g2ClsQaT3Ms9aOugZJquO1IvvFgvFUwxVcmTicO1IFHkixJBkE6kKuRPSZhudvbzPYUJ9hNggcMnukvwFrtkgX7hKsMmJg-- Received: from [212.24.150.226] by web37510.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 29 May 2007 09:06:42 PDT Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 09:06:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Zuzana Kraemerova Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Re: 1432 cotehardie - fastening? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <306948.24660.qm@web37510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=21% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4f131634-d27a-43d3-ba73-b94cebe054b7 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 465C510D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 29 May 2007 12:13:05 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Well, I've spoken to the man I'm sewing this cotehardie for, and he really doesn't want a front lacing. The back lacing is, I see, not very good choice to take either, if it's not sure whether it's period or not. Do you think I could do with some hidden fastening on the side? If side lacing existed, this wouldn't be "unperiod". By the way, was the side lacing on both sides? But I'd rather make some much more invisible fastening at the side - how could be lacing hidden in a seam? I can't imagine that. What about hooks and eyes? I know there existed in renaissance, but no idea when it comes to middle ages. Thanks, Zuzana --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 29 13:12:19 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4THCHH9021669 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 13:12:17 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4THC2Em017474 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 May 2007 13:12:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4THBRAx077565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 29 May 2007 11:11:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4THBKum038813; Tue, 29 May 2007 11:11:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from flpi102.sbcis.sbc.com (flpi102.sbcis.sbc.com [207.115.20.71]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4THBHgo038687 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 11:11:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) X-ORBL: [75.45.232.240] Received: from [75.45.232.240] (adsl-75-45-232-240.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net [75.45.232.240]) by flpi102.sbcis.sbc.com (8.13.8 out.dk.spool/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4THB6jL023211 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 10:11:07 -0700 In-Reply-To: <000001c7a09b$7725f5e0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> References: <000001c7a09b$7725f5e0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <2AE06B45-7BF1-42C8-96AA-FCD66AFFF95A@faucet.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff question Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 13:11:05 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 459aef25-3dc1-4e68-a931-7167f664cec9 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 465C5EE3.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 29 May 2007 13:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO On May 27, 2007, at 4:13 PM, Sharon Collier wrote: > I want to make an Elizabethan ruff. I have some fine linen, but the > selvedge > is funky. Should I double the fabric, having a fold at the outside > edge of the ruff or should I just hem the outside edge with a > narrow hem? It depends on whether you want to starch and set it to get the shape or do a theatrical style that's wash-and-wear. If you mean to starch it every time you wash it, I'd suggest a tiny rolled hem at the edge and only one layer of fabric. For that style, you'll need to gather the entire length of the ruffle into the top of the neckband, so the less bulk the better. If you mean to put horsehair braid or some other modern cheat in so you won't have to starch it, and you intend to cartridge pleat it onto the side of the neckband, it's fine to fold it double. Instructions on starching ruffs can be found on my site at http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/ruff.html Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 29 17:49:58 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TLnw5l027944 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 17:49:58 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4TLnhlv010869 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 May 2007 17:49:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4TLmamk020720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 29 May 2007 15:48:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TLmUCd091613; Tue, 29 May 2007 15:48:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TGiupM013909 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 10:44:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29379 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 11:46:55 -0500 Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 11:46:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1432 doublet - fastening? In-Reply-To: <001101c7a0bd$66e38b80$8fbfa6d8@pavilion> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 44041d34-2112-4b3e-9a00-71a1a30798ab X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 465C9FF7.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 29 May 2007 17:49:47 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Oh my. A quick search just turned up a page about this from a weblog by Will McLean. I know him -- he's an armorer on the East Coast (formerly SCA, now with Belle Compagnie) and does top-flight work, so I trust his eye. http://willscommonplacebook.blogspot.com/2006_08_01_archive.html The name of the entry is "Belts Worn with Armor by a Late 14th-early 15th c. Man-at-Arms," and he names many examples. Here's the paragraph: <> The picture link (it went to Gothic Eye) is dead, but the description would make sense of that bit of decoration I saw off the waist, which went down at an angle and might be a diagonal narrow belt holding the scabbard on the right. If he means the same image, then Will thinks it's armor. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 29 17:51:37 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TLpbnn027985 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 17:51:37 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4TLpMdq012289 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 May 2007 17:51:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4TLoiFK021121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 29 May 2007 15:50:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TLogpw093783; Tue, 29 May 2007 15:50:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TKkBBK035821 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 14:46:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Deredere.Galbraith@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-1494.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.85.216]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E3143422E4 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 22:46:05 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <465C9115.7020204@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 22:46:13 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=17% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: d6d0523a-c86e-4e67-b339-3ed4c802f24d X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 465CA05B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 29 May 2007 17:51:26 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi, Several years ago I found a picture on the internet that I really liked. http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade2/tijdelijk/Blauw.jpg And several years ago I bought a very nice blue silk. I was wondering if red wool felt and gold cord would work for the embroidery. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 29 18:29:08 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TMT8Qf028744 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 18:29:08 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4TMSrtn013493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 May 2007 18:28:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4TMSK8D034616 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 29 May 2007 16:28:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TMSJX4025425; Tue, 29 May 2007 16:28:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.247]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TMSHX0025399 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 16:28:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maricelt@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b8so651976ana for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 15:28:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=LJhBzXoFgQDycZSj76Naye7S5eqhSfyq+tefiTE/fzxBz3Hi9nRWMC3wB38FP5eBTnRDWQzrUrc82hDBKsA9P9bwDQ1UAk4dIJf5sMoL05vPaJSRC/m0xWcDs2Vxi5It4S3RDOUz+dcUuFd3LKhTwK88fs+ZDiqghrdC28tx0Nw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=mGOV1pIZingxll+fepZafaIRl7ujUvW1/WTJWvKRfYGnYOv878iCcYbg9whrAI4lbzChOiqQUffueOqikjoQ5yuT63L2imW/wS8faLv8M2oqcPOGM7WgSEor8NWawPfWf9Yo9isbkuYv5rV20sGj7sPfjODwi9PQZozepT0TpCk= Received: by 10.100.178.7 with SMTP id a7mr5560433anf.1180477295777; Tue, 29 May 2007 15:21:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.122.2 with HTTP; Tue, 29 May 2007 15:21:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <72adc2660705291521r1555387g71d08cd81afba1e4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 17:21:35 -0500 From: "Marie Stewart" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery In-Reply-To: <465C9115.7020204@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <465C9115.7020204@kabelfoon.nl> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 368cd6ed-e304-4762-8d0b-014b1ff94a03 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 465CA925.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 29 May 2007 18:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Ah yes! I've seen this portrait before. My first question, as always, is what did they do at the time? Embroidery I will admit is not my strongest suit and perhaps I am conjuring up the wrong mental picture of what you mean by "wool felt". But my gut reaction is "no, not wool." In part it is from my reading of inventories of the day... silk garments tend to be decorated with silk. Looking at the garment in "Moda A Firenze" I can't tell a darn thing. Oh well, had to try. Sorry, I hope your research turns up and answer, and that you will share it with us. Mari > Several years ago I found a picture on the internet that I really liked. > http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade2/tijdelijk/Blauw.jpg > And several years ago I bought a very nice blue silk. > > I was wondering if red wool felt and gold cord would work for the > embroidery. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 29 18:38:41 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TMceFq028993 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 18:38:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4TMcPFT000484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 May 2007 18:38:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4TMbieE038260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 29 May 2007 16:37:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TMbh6S032857; Tue, 29 May 2007 16:37:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32209.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32209.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.140]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4TMbekJ032740 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 16:37:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sstormwatch@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 19356 invoked by uid 60001); 29 May 2007 22:37:35 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=bz8negT9qtm/mOltNHUBufj6v9DANOQR2eUK3NUWh5BbZXhvq8ur8CAxiUsJF5noazkX5m6ctfYEGArdYKRkPAaq8qNPQbxuOMouxsk07jrHwBtXR6rLHP4FKXPLNghzJo1yu5E3HsSHGIE6UttNd7kGMikl6r3+WdARcRCe7wA=; X-YMail-OSG: YkEHx.QVM1lwf.3fuBMQQsHWm6UDk8W9MdZpuM3X.MOZ_qKzaLyDRNP5QWf0TB9HBGYg8jmerpSk1IfAnSKEhPZFZMNhY2Oci61rjk6ySGCICJT.TdM- Received: from [129.8.204.63] by web32209.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 29 May 2007 15:37:35 PDT Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 15:37:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <465C9115.7020204@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <370057.19133.qm@web32209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 814643fc-c468-4c1f-b50a-e03c8974e051 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 465CAB61.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 29 May 2007 18:38:29 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Most likely, I am thinking appliques of red velvet, outlined with cord. Wool felt might work, but won't look as rich as the velvet would. Good luck, and I would love to see pictures when you are done. Kimiko --- Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Hi, > > Several years ago I found a picture on the internet > that I really liked. > http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade2/tijdelijk/Blauw.jpg > And several years ago I bought a very nice blue > silk. > > I was wondering if red wool felt and gold cord would > work for the > embroidery. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 29 18:41:46 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TMfkI3029059 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 18:41:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4TMfWc3013712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 May 2007 18:41:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4TMf4HI039427 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 29 May 2007 16:41:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TMf3mo035406; Tue, 29 May 2007 16:41:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.180]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TMf1Jf035371 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 16:41:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garbaholic@gmail.com) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m38so956666waf for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 15:41:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=KtJuS3QkOTE2W2nneLn//QA9GeHkEhvX4TmvGASttCu/c55zZxBRu1yHEaw5OiArzGK+lMss5+HvCQ82cY3ygbj6yYezzfFw8bmIr4w8nHGZXzSoLOke8y7x0wASJyKuVZa50dEbOsstpOxRQgijKGh9rmiJcUwTLdYWY+UjEV8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Q49H/QNqb4CcbXSzK1gS5oREbYCQhYDhTNrDqoT5JvBB33WSU1nI1DlpAunBTD74qYzZ7AJ1xQzQY6PshMUNfQTGdmnjglLc2DmV1mww1bDEsWrcY1PJez14J7ykAY2ES4yI+i1ESccn3f4KVsssd6BKJRoj6kYDb47sBHCyG3o= Received: by 10.114.27.20 with SMTP id a20mr3613098waa.1180478460576; Tue, 29 May 2007 15:41:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.46.10 with HTTP; Tue, 29 May 2007 15:41:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <870801590705291541u1595a380j17c72917501af096@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 17:41:00 -0500 From: "Alexandria Doyle" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery In-Reply-To: <465C9115.7020204@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <465C9115.7020204@kabelfoon.nl> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2ace3602-5c61-4e3c-9ae5-87a6d5ef7712 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 465CAC1C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 29 May 2007 18:41:35 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO A quick look at JA's PoF, where an appliqu=E9 on silk was done it was silk, except for the one doublet with leather applique stitched with silk thread. I also think that while the wool would work, it would look better with velvet or silk alex On 5/29/07, Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Hi, > > Several years ago I found a picture on the internet that I really liked. > http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade2/tijdelijk/Blauw.jpg > And several years ago I bought a very nice blue silk. > > I was wondering if red wool felt and gold cord would work for the > embroidery. > >-- I can handle anything that life throws at me. I may not be able to handle it well, or correctly, or gracefully, or with finesse, or expediently -- but I will handle it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 29 18:55:37 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TMtbB6029339 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 18:55:37 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4TMtNlO017608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 May 2007 18:55:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4TMsOxq044226 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 29 May 2007 16:54:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TMsKWX045646; Tue, 29 May 2007 16:54:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web55308.mail.re4.yahoo.com (web55308.mail.re4.yahoo.com [206.190.58.187]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4TMsGuG045537 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 16:54:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from faerieglenstudios@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 70925 invoked by uid 60001); 29 May 2007 22:54:11 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=MtcJm44o17wNaXt4iaVzuQy/fP6T6irStE+MHukfybCGgIwAgcpSfDMXP9VvCONAb5a+36rN+GUyrrJy0Me3hAJ1QXzuZmR3utkk+6mknocTIyihn+mA4fKFrM/9jmgH3nfDzOpQXmobaxQr2js+FQCjhP2V/+OpecTwwycXJy4=; X-YMail-OSG: blN5WlYVM1kywCm91Wt35VQYyVs296coKM8SRph3u.f70hqSQCFPq_a2sNKZUiRnUQ-- Received: from [208.67.10.163] by web55308.mail.re4.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 29 May 2007 15:54:11 PDT Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 15:54:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jodi Nelson To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <309741.70918.qm@web55308.mail.re4.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=18% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] RE: What R U Doing This Weekend X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 60338c36-86c3-4fa0-a1e5-5d78a62fb156 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 465CAF5B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 29 May 2007 18:55:27 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Well, the weekend is really over, but I spent it sewing circa 1850's pioneer dresses and accessories for two girls going on a re-enactment trek and belly dancing for fun. Jodi --------------------------------- It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 29 19:12:44 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TNChqh029722 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 19:12:43 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4TNCTLk002254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 May 2007 19:12:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4TLnJRH020829 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 29 May 2007 15:49:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TLnI37092290; Tue, 29 May 2007 15:49:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4TGxN6v027277 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 10:59:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29499 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 12:01:22 -0500 Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 12:01:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1432 doublet - fastening? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 0838a388-1386-42e8-8ca2-57b7835c0293 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 465CB35D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 29 May 2007 19:12:33 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Blast it. That last note on armor was meant to go directly to a listmember, not to the list, and was part of a larger conversation. Nothing to see here. Carry on. Apologies, Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 29 22:50:52 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4U2op2N003152 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 22:50:52 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4U2ob9q004758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 May 2007 22:50:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4U2nrru074301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 29 May 2007 20:49:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4U2nmP9084428; Tue, 29 May 2007 20:49:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4U2nkjV084399 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 20:49:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A468EE036C; Wed, 30 May 2007 02:41:44 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 19:49:34 -0700 Message-ID: <000501c7a265$28196ce0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <465C9115.7020204@kabelfoon.nl> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 372891ce-2557-4cd8-b85f-e2690866a079 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 465CE67D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 29 May 2007 22:50:41 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Personally, I'd use very thin red leather. Or silk. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Deredere Galbraith Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 1:46 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery Hi, Several years ago I found a picture on the internet that I really liked. http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade2/tijdelijk/Blauw.jpg And several years ago I bought a very nice blue silk. I was wondering if red wool felt and gold cord would work for the embroidery. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 01:01:22 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4U51MBi007047 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 01:01:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4U517LV013324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 01:01:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4U4ZHhM085010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 29 May 2007 22:35:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4U4ZEil036174; Tue, 29 May 2007 22:35:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf5.socket.net (mf5c.socket.net [216.106.26.211]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4U4ZBa3036156 for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 22:35:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf5.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2C2653606D for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 23:35:11 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 23:35:24 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <465C9115.7020204@kabelfoon.nl> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ccab3c04-0cde-4e3d-828d-c7a9f894df35 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 465D0514.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 01:01:11 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO There is a larger picture online somewhere that shows the red to be embroidery, probably silk thread. But if you are asking about cutting back on the embroidery by appliquing wool felt where there is red, I would recommend a velvet or silk. Not sure they would have appliqued wool on to silk back then. De -----Original Message----- Hi, Several years ago I found a picture on the internet that I really liked. http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade2/tijdelijk/Blauw.jpg And several years ago I bought a very nice blue silk. I was wondering if red wool felt and gold cord would work for the embroidery. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 02:17:15 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4U6HER0015851 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 02:17:14 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4U6H0ik024084 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 02:17:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4U6GNXh095309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 May 2007 00:16:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4U6GIk1081609; Wed, 30 May 2007 00:16:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep31.mail.dk (fep31.mail.dk [80.160.76.195]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4U6GE6r081532 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 00:16:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep47.mail.dk ([195.41.46.230]) by fep31.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070530061604.RLMW1137.fep31.mail.dk@fep47.mail.dk> for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 08:16:04 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.38]) by fep47.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070530061604.IOID20303.fep47.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 08:16:04 +0200 Message-ID: <002b01c7a282$0460cf10$2643a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <465C9115.7020204@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 08:16:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep47.mail.dk from [80.161.67.38] at Wed, 30 May 2007 08:15:57 +0200 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=26% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2b8e8555-aecf-4d3c-a762-0a04784cc58c X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 465D16DC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 02:17:03 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi Deredere, I would use a gold passing thread wich you couch on the surface, but first i would embroider the red areas. You could simply cover the red areas with tiny chainstitches. After that couch on the gold passing thread. My guess is that it would be quicker to do, than to cut out and aplique the silk to the surface, because you had to treat the raw edges somehow. Lovely portrait. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:46 PM Subject: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery > Hi, > > Several years ago I found a picture on the internet that I really liked. > http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade2/tijdelijk/Blauw.jpg > And several years ago I bought a very nice blue silk. > > I was wondering if red wool felt and gold cord would work for the > embroidery. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 10:11:17 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UEBHtv022353 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:11:17 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4UEB2P3015909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 10:11:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4UEAK51057573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 May 2007 08:10:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UEAGdR048334; Wed, 30 May 2007 08:10:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UEAB6F048288 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 08:10:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m96.in-tch.com [216.166.191.96]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id l4UDtLB03067 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 07:55:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <002601c7a2c5$8bb37740$60bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1432 doublet - fastening? Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 08:19:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 6aad2247-e3a0-4049-9ec5-ffc0bf83017a X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 465D85F6.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 10:11:06 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hello, everyone. Robin caught something yesterday, and followed up on her idea, and sent it on to me, and I did some following-up of my own, and it appears that I may have been leading y'all astray. Although I did not remember Sir John's effigy as being armored (and this is unclear from my photograph), I did find a better shot of the effigy online by googling for his name, and wading past all the stuff that was about his more-famous son, also known as Sir John. http://www.ukgraves.info/review.asp?id=24&pic=10 As you can see, he's clearly armored. I do not know enough about 14th century armor so say with any degree of certainty that what he's got on could just be some sort of partial set of armor, such as one sometimes sees in 16th century portraits, or if he's wearing some sort of coat or jupon over armor. At best, my photo is an example of *something* (most likely body armor) being laced on the side. It is very likely *not* an example of side-laced clothing. (On the plus side, Sir John, jr. appears to have been a very interesting fellow, and the ukgraves site has got all kinds of interesting images, so this wasn't a total loss!) --Sue, going off feeling like a right eejit! :o) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 11:14:06 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UFE6ch028676 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 11:14:06 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4UFDpU6029365 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 11:13:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4UFD0P0067357 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 May 2007 09:13:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UFCvaj004692; Wed, 30 May 2007 09:12:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UF5ar3097258 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 09:05:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Deredere.Galbraith@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-1494.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.85.216]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86D2C341D43 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 17:05:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <465D92C5.30900@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 17:05:41 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery References: <465C9115.7020204@kabelfoon.nl> In-Reply-To: <465C9115.7020204@kabelfoon.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=19% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1d9edc5a-1b4e-4f82-9bb2-47671fa32cb4 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 465D94AF.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 11:13:55 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I would love to embroider it by hand but knowing myself I would never finish it :-( . So I have a few options. Totally embroider it by machine..... Or appliques of wool or silk and gold cord stichet on by machine. (I know it is not period but probably the only way for me to make a beautiful dress within reasonable time. And having fun making it. although I am not happy having it to do it this way) Silk velvet would be very nice. The cheapest I found is around 60 euro for a meter.... and it is white... 1 Meter would hopefully be more than enough. (I could use some scraps for an other project..) I have white silk that I would like to dye for the lining. The lining looks more pink than the red on the dress. I can easily get that pinkish red from the lining with madder but I never got a real red from it.. Should I use some sort of backing for the embroidery? Greetings, Deredere Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Hi, > > Several years ago I found a picture on the internet that I really liked. > http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade2/tijdelijk/Blauw.jpg > And several years ago I bought a very nice blue silk. > > I was wondering if red wool felt and gold cord would work for the > embroidery. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 11:21:58 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UFLw0N028858 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 11:21:58 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4UFLhR7015174 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 11:21:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4UFLKeY068579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 May 2007 09:21:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UFLIBN012375; Wed, 30 May 2007 09:21:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UFLF7P012245 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 09:21:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rapierlady@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=aDZPlbIRIdbWZ9eez3h7ij6bn+ebzOQ4D3jHuBUus+UcE67bZvhMyG/BUlqlreR6; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.41] (helo=elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HtPz4-0008Rn-6T for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 30 May 2007 11:21:10 -0400 Received: from 76.180.2.105 by webmail.pas.earthlink.net with HTTP; Wed, 30 May 2007 11:21:09 -0400 Message-ID: <3762448.1180538470206.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 11:21:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Wendy Colbert To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 0a030519c2a4ee4cf8c10fa22fe64701239a348a220c26091ee0d8a5d2861d961948c6373e323f74a8438e0f32a48e08350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.41 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a49da3d6-130a-413a-bb24-836e1ec57314 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 465D9687.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 11:21:47 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO A true red from madder is difficult, you will get a better red if you use a second dye bath of cochineal or lac after the madder. Wendy -----Original Message----- >From: Deredere Galbraith >Sent: May 30, 2007 11:05 AM >To: Historical Costume >Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery > >I would love to embroider it by hand but knowing myself I would never >finish it :-( . > >So I have a few options. >Totally embroider it by machine..... >Or appliques of wool or silk and gold cord stichet on by machine. >(I know it is not period but probably the only way for me to make a >beautiful dress within reasonable time. And having fun making it. >although I am not happy having it to do it this way) > >Silk velvet would be very nice. >The cheapest I found is around 60 euro for a meter.... and it is white... >1 Meter would hopefully be more than enough. >(I could use some scraps for an other project..) >I have white silk that I would like to dye for the lining. >The lining looks more pink than the red on the dress. >I can easily get that pinkish red from the lining with madder but I >never got a real red from it.. > >Should I use some sort of backing for the embroidery? > >Greetings, > Deredere > > > >Deredere Galbraith wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Several years ago I found a picture on the internet that I really liked. >> http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade2/tijdelijk/Blauw.jpg >> And several years ago I bought a very nice blue silk. >> >> I was wondering if red wool felt and gold cord would work for the >> embroidery. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 12:15:05 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UGF4Jl030456 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 12:15:04 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4UGEoi9003649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 12:14:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4UGEG0g077020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 May 2007 10:14:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UGECY3062541; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:14:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UGE8Fn062407 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:14:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.d20.c15a2dd (43932) for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 12:13:48 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 12:13:48 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5366 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 3bcd3ae8-1279-4ca3-babd-b2d3ee2a4560 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 465DA2FA.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 12:14:54 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/30/2007 11:13:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Deredere.Galbraith@kabelfoon.nl writes: Or appliques of wool or silk and gold cord stichet on by machine. ******************* There are some amazing things made now to help you with applique. I used this stuff that was, not sticky as in gooey, but a heat activated bonding material that clung to whatever you wanted before any heat was applied, so you could move it around if you wanted, but it stayed put if you didn't peal it up. It did not become permanent until you blasted it with the iron. It had paper on both sides since both sides of the bonding stuff was clingy. You drew on one side of the paper the design elements you wanted, then pulled the other, unmarked paper off and bonded the whole uncut thing to the back of your decorative fabric. Then cut it out [the edges resisted fraying after being bonded] then placed all the elements where they needed to go, moving them and adjusting them as needed [they cling to the fabric] and when you got things in place, blasted them with steam and heat. They were now on for good. I did this with velvet even, using a velvet board and ironing from the back. Since it clings really well, I could pick up the whole thing and turn it over. Since all the red seems to be outlined in gold cord, this might work out well for you. I ran around all my appliques with a tight zig-zag, but you could get away with a wider one just to make sure everything is down and not going to fray, then cover it up with gold braid or whatever. It'll still be time consuming, but look great! ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 12:30:16 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UGUGmB030863 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 12:30:16 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4UGU2jC011589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 12:30:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4UGSbAt079635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 May 2007 10:28:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UGSaHr076340; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:28:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep32.mail.dk (fep32.mail.dk [80.160.76.196]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UGSV7S076180 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:28:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep48.mail.dk ([195.41.46.231]) by fep32.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070530162823.HQTO901.fep32.mail.dk@fep48.mail.dk> for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 18:28:23 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.38]) by fep48.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070530162823.QNBJ1370.fep48.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 18:28:23 +0200 Message-ID: <000c01c7a2d7$8f8d77f0$2643a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 18:28:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep48.mail.dk from [80.161.67.38] at Wed, 30 May 2007 18:28:17 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=26% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a7690e94-a423-4c81-a4bf-76d1d21e7782 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 465DA68A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 12:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO What is the name for that stuff? Sounds wonderfull! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery > > In a message dated 5/30/2007 11:13:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > Deredere.Galbraith@kabelfoon.nl writes: > > Or appliques of wool or silk and gold cord stichet on by machine. > > > > ******************* > > There are some amazing things made now to help you with applique. I used > this stuff that was, not sticky as in gooey, but a heat activated bonding > material that clung to whatever you wanted before any heat was applied, so > you > could move it around if you wanted, but it stayed put if you didn't peal > it up. > It did not become permanent until you blasted it with the iron. It had > paper on > both sides since both sides of the bonding stuff was clingy. You drew on > one > side of the paper the design elements you wanted, then pulled the other, > unmarked paper off and bonded the whole uncut thing to the back of your > decorative fabric. Then cut it out [the edges resisted fraying after being > bonded] > then placed all the elements where they needed to go, moving them and > adjusting them as needed [they cling to the fabric] and when you got > things in place, > blasted them with steam and heat. They were now on for good. > > I did this with velvet even, using a velvet board and ironing from the > back. > Since it clings really well, I could pick up the whole thing and turn it > over. > Since all the red seems to be outlined in gold cord, this might work out > well for you. I ran around all my appliques with a tight zig-zag, but you > could > get away with a wider one just to make sure everything is down and not > going > to fray, then cover it up with gold braid or whatever. It'll still be > time > consuming, but look great! > > > > ************************************** See what's free at > http://www.aol.com. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 12:35:01 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UGZ14O030994 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 12:35:01 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4UGYlJS012136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 12:34:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4UGXnEI080519 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 May 2007 10:33:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UGXlUq081253; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:33:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UGXhY6081123 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:33:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id 6.bff.1867e742 (43932) for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 12:33:24 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 12:33:23 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5366 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: e997f264-7ef2-4f79-a296-233b6ad7ac6c X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 465DA7A7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 12:34:50 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In a message dated 5/30/2007 12:29:06 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: What is the name for that stuff? Sounds wonderfull! ************* Alas, I have no idea. But I picked it up at the local, ho-hum fabric store. I'll look for it the next time I'm there, and write the name down so I can post it here. [Unless someone else knows already] ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 13:21:25 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UHLOZM032396 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 13:21:25 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4UHLA37005857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 13:21:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4UHKa1R088856 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 May 2007 11:20:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UHKVVp026250; Wed, 30 May 2007 11:20:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [63.240.77.83]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UHKRei026105 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 11:20:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy4@comcast.net) Message-Id: <200705301720.l4UHKRei026105@net.indra.com> Received: from stuckis.comcast.net (c-71-207-16-152.hsd1.pa.comcast.net[71.207.16.152]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2007053017202201300j1d86e>; Wed, 30 May 2007 17:20:22 +0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 13:20:20 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Dianne & Greg Stucki Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: e0ccad5d-07bf-4220-8bd4-0fc9d0dbfdbe X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 465DB286.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 13:21:14 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO At 12:33 PM 5/30/2007, you wrote: > >In a message dated 5/30/2007 12:29:06 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > >What is the name for that stuff? >Sounds wonderfull! Most like it is fusible webbing. Sold under brand names like Steam A Seam or Heat-n-Bond. Warning! Do NOT get the Ultra Hold webbing products, they are NOT sewable. You can also look for fusible embroidery stabilizer, which might do the same job. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 13:23:36 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UHNamc032468 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 13:23:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4UHNLMq007924 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 13:23:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4UHMKHX089180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 May 2007 11:22:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UHMKBN027922; Wed, 30 May 2007 11:22:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf5.socket.net (mf5m.socket.net [216.106.26.221]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UHMGHq027858 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 11:22:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf5.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D37623679C for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 12:22:15 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 12:22:31 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4c48a8e7-2277-4f54-9590-fca7e1157cd1 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 465DB30A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 13:23:25 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO All I remember is that I found it in the Quilting section of the fabric store years ago and haven't found it since. So I too would love the name. Thank you, De -----Original Message----- Alas, I have no idea. But I picked it up at the local, ho-hum fabric store. I'll look for it the next time I'm there, and write the name down so I can post it here. [Unless someone else knows already] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 13:26:47 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UHQlvd032565 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 13:26:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4UHQXZc002824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 13:26:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4UHPqIN089654 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 May 2007 11:25:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UHPpHQ030920; Wed, 30 May 2007 11:25:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf5.socket.net (mf5m.socket.net [216.106.26.221]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UHPlf7030872 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 11:25:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf5.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5AA0136B10 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 12:25:47 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 12:26:02 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 0575e189-ad26-4106-b957-8ccc4db17f4b X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 465DB3C9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 13:26:36 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Was it AppliEase? -----Original Message----- Alas, I have no idea. But I picked it up at the local, ho-hum fabric store. I'll look for it the next time I'm there, and write the name down so I can post it here. [Unless someone else knows already] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 13:40:00 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UHe0jM000501 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 13:40:00 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4UHdkw4030130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 13:39:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4UHd9Hm091731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 May 2007 11:39:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UHd7uM043112; Wed, 30 May 2007 11:39:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32209.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32209.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.140]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4UHd42G042988 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 11:39:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sstormwatch@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 13984 invoked by uid 60001); 30 May 2007 17:38:58 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=f/MD2B/jRQSWoUWWGK/OY+2p2AtODQkCWIy9dq1hiTb+1NF+mtjcp1VhBNnd3S6OOADlJlnBToYwBFcCNI5a6912IRHYjgIe5XVnDE5Wn/76Xr4VMHEWr50gSkNqCZiTdt3iIMFOYMfjilH7P2igheZWLFNELQrxQ/jZbasFKPI=; X-YMail-OSG: MaESQN0VM1mW55B5l4cT8C7iBUyLcv1Bwaf8NJe_yb82xnbkNDVv1IKOyYsODOnDakly.KJ10IroXCoOd6QxuJa8EXHJvW6PuXzzJHoq13NRAJO7nBU- Received: from [129.8.204.63] by web32209.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 30 May 2007 10:38:58 PDT Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 10:38:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <813141.13462.qm@web32209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 394970c6-e656-44d3-87cf-7a5be658f16a X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 465DB6E2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 13:39:49 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Steam a Seam 2 is what I used. It keeps the edge of the velvet appliques I worked on, fused permanently when I wanted it, was easy enough to sew through without getting the needle sticky, and comes highly recommended by embroidery artists and quilt artists I know. Those artists are the ones who recommend the #2 version, not the regular version. They say the #2 version is lighter, and less likely to gum your needles. But try both and see what works best for you. http://www.warmcompany.com/saspage.html It comes in sheets, and in thin rolls of various widths. I use the roll SaS2 for holding down trims before sewing. I really like this stuff. Kimiko --- AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 5/30/2007 12:29:06 P.M. Eastern > Daylight Time, > drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > > What is the name for that stuff? > Sounds wonderfull! > > ************* > > Alas, I have no idea. But I picked it up at the > local, ho-hum fabric store. > I'll look for it the next time I'm there, and write > the name down so I can > post it here. [Unless someone else knows already] > ____________________________________________________________________________________Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 14:37:13 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UIbCxL001858 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 14:37:12 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4UIavFH005778 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 14:37:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4UIaGaF001692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 May 2007 12:36:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UIaCb5094722; Wed, 30 May 2007 12:36:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UIa9Fg094594 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 12:36:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Deredere.Galbraith@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-1494.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.85.216]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38148342487 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 20:36:01 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <465DC41B.10900@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 20:36:11 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery References: <813141.13462.qm@web32209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <813141.13462.qm@web32209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=19% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 80f629b2-6d48-43f8-946f-8b031154d64c X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 465DC449.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 14:37:01 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Thanx for the idea. I think I used something like this. I wanted to buy the stuf that sticks on one side but bought the double sided instead. I didn't know that it existed. My local shop sells it I think. It is probably not the same but I can try if it works. Kimiko Small wrote: > Steam a Seam 2 is what I used. It keeps the edge of > the velvet appliques I worked on, fused permanently > when I wanted it, was easy enough to sew through > without getting the needle sticky, and comes highly > recommended by embroidery artists and quilt artists I > know. Those artists are the ones who recommend the #2 > version, not the regular version. They say the #2 > version is lighter, and less likely to gum your > needles. But try both and see what works best for you. > http://www.warmcompany.com/saspage.html > It comes in sheets, and in thin rolls of various > widths. I use the roll SaS2 for holding down trims > before sewing. I really like this stuff. > > Kimiko > > > > --- AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > >> >> In a message dated 5/30/2007 12:29:06 P.M. Eastern >> Daylight Time, >> drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: >> >> What is the name for that stuff? >> Sounds wonderfull! >> >> ************* >> >> Alas, I have no idea. But I picked it up at the >> local, ho-hum fabric store. >> I'll look for it the next time I'm there, and write >> the name down so I can >> post it here. [Unless someone else knows already] >> >> > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. > http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 14:54:40 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UIseWJ002219 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 14:54:40 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4UIsPUp030237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 14:54:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4UImi8k003862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 May 2007 12:48:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UImdVI006042; Wed, 30 May 2007 12:48:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep35.mail.dk (fep35.mail.dk [80.160.76.199]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UImXDn005855 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 12:48:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep46.mail.dk ([195.41.46.229]) by fep35.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070530184823.PNOA1140.fep35.mail.dk@fep46.mail.dk> for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 20:48:23 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.38]) by fep46.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070530184823.QSTR1379.fep46.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 20:48:23 +0200 Message-ID: <001a01c7a2eb$26f78b40$2643a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 20:48:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep46.mail.dk from [80.161.67.38] at Wed, 30 May 2007 20:48:21 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=32% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2cdfb88f-9dfd-4c6e-8e2b-d67c36a8d6bb X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 465DC861.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 14:54:29 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Dear Albertcat, Yes please do let us know, if you ever find the name for this, i know the ordinary iron on both sides with paper backings, its very nice also, but the idea that it sticks before you iron it is just what i could use, when you are making patterns with cut out motifs. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery > Alas, I have no idea. But I picked it up at the local, ho-hum fabric > store. > I'll look for it the next time I'm there, and write the name down so I can > post it here. [Unless someone else knows already] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 15:10:29 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UJATgc002611 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 15:10:29 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4UJAEIF003157 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 15:10:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4UJ9cbe007612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 May 2007 13:09:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UJ9XLc025900; Wed, 30 May 2007 13:09:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep32.mail.dk (fep32.mail.dk [80.160.76.196]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UJ9Ufm025748 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 13:09:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep45.mail.dk ([195.41.46.228]) by fep32.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070530190924.NBFV901.fep32.mail.dk@fep45.mail.dk> for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 21:09:24 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.38]) by fep45.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070530190924.ITEW6126.fep45.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 21:09:24 +0200 Message-ID: <000701c7a2ee$15eba770$2643a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 21:09:41 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep45.mail.dk from [80.161.67.38] at Wed, 30 May 2007 21:09:18 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=26% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] wearing hat indoors. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 525c1525-cc42-4865-96f0-d11c8600267a X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 465DCC16.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 15:10:18 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi, I am in the middle of finishing the red taffeta dress and i am also making a hat to go with the dress, large brim, low crown. Now i just heard that the girl i am making it for is going to open an exhibition at Gammel Estrup about table settings for tea and coffe, trough the ages. Its june 10th, just the day before i travel on holliday to Italy. http://www.gammelestrup.dk/ Now i wished i had made her a cap, but i dont think i wil have the time for that. Wil she be able to wear the hat indoors, or wil it look strange? http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sofie3.htm Bjarne www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 15:46:29 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UJkTdr003632 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 15:46:29 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4UJkFun016029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 15:46:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4UJeJik012427 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 May 2007 13:40:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UJeEeb054676; Wed, 30 May 2007 13:40:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UJdbtj054046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 13:40:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id l4UJdSaU019831 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 15:39:35 -0400 Received: from 72.13.239.193 (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Wed, 30 May 2007 15:42:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <65484.72.13.239.193.1180554148.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <000701c7a2ee$15eba770$2643a150@CPQ21932199711> References: <000701c7a2ee$15eba770$2643a150@CPQ21932199711> Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 15:42:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] wearing hat indoors. From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=24% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9acfe3e7-f65e-4444-aee4-a53395a45a2e X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 465DD487.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 15:46:19 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO If she is the only one dressed in 18thC, then it's more of a costume and the indoor/outdoor thing does not matter so much. I'm not sure if there are different "rules" that go with a compere front gown. You don't often have buttons as the closure on women's clothing except for riding habits, which are a masculine style. Since the compere has buttons, the rules may change. You would need to look at pictures of that style gown, which it sounds like you are out of time to do! Usually a cap is worn underneath a hat. Then there is a dressed hairstyle that has feathers, ribbons, etc - no hat or cap. But again, does it go with the compere gown? And does that matter to 21stC people attending an exhibit opening? -Carol > Hi, > I am in the middle of finishing the red taffeta dress and i am also making > a hat to go with the dress, large brim, low crown. > Now i just heard that the girl i am making it for is going to open an > exhibition at Gammel Estrup about table settings for tea and coffe, trough > the ages. Its june 10th, just the day before i travel on holliday to Italy. > http://www.gammelestrup.dk/ > Now i wished i had made her a cap, but i dont think i wil have the time > for that. > Wil she be able to wear the hat indoors, or wil it look strange? > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sofie3.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 16:15:13 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UKFCCx004351 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 16:15:12 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4UKEwBs012897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 16:15:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4UKERBg019041 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 May 2007 14:14:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UKEQVv088083; Wed, 30 May 2007 14:14:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep35.mail.dk (fep35.mail.dk [80.160.76.199]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UKEMYT088030 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 14:14:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep43.mail.dk ([195.41.46.226]) by fep35.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.08.02.02 201-2186-121-104-20070414) with ESMTP id <20070530201417.SGDQ1140.fep35.mail.dk@fep43.mail.dk> for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 22:14:17 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.38]) by fep43.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20070530201417.QYDZ1148.fep43.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 22:14:17 +0200 Message-ID: <000701c7a2f7$29b5ca70$2643a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000701c7a2ee$15eba770$2643a150@CPQ21932199711> <65484.72.13.239.193.1180554148.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] wearing hat indoors. Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 22:14:41 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep43.mail.dk from [80.161.67.38] at Wed, 30 May 2007 22:14:13 +0200 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=31% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: d9eb5226-443f-421c-9f9d-2a951ec4c71a X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 465DDB42.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 16:15:02 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Hi, Thanks for your thoaghts, well you are probably right, its because she dont have a wig and her own hair is very thin and smooth, so its difficult to make something with it. The only thing i am changing with the original design, is making a stomacher in stead of a compare, its easyer to fit it to her size this way. Also what i said about the cape that i probably not have time for it, is not entirely true, only i dont have a pattern for one, and i have never made any before. Thanks for your thoaghts..... Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] wearing hat indoors. > > If she is the only one dressed in 18thC, then it's more of a costume > and the indoor/outdoor thing does not matter so much. > > I'm not sure if there are different "rules" that go with a compere > front gown. You don't often have buttons as the closure on women's > clothing except for riding habits, which are a masculine style. > Since the compere has buttons, the rules may change. You would need > to look at pictures of that style gown, which it sounds like you are > out of time to do! > > Usually a cap is worn underneath a hat. Then there is a dressed > hairstyle that has feathers, ribbons, etc - no hat or cap. But > again, does it go with the compere gown? > > And does that matter to 21stC people attending an exhibit opening? > > -Carol > > >> Hi, >> I am in the middle of finishing the red taffeta dress and i am also >> making >> a hat to go with the dress, large brim, low crown. >> Now i just heard that the girl i am making it for is going to open an >> exhibition at Gammel Estrup about table settings for tea and coffe, >> trough >> the ages. Its june 10th, just the day before i travel on holliday to >> Italy. >> http://www.gammelestrup.dk/ >> Now i wished i had made her a cap, but i dont think i wil have the time >> for that. >> Wil she be able to wear the hat indoors, or wil it look strange? >> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sofie3.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 17:07:48 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UL7l9E005869 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 17:07:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4UL7XtS009649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 17:07:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4UL6T8o028927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 May 2007 15:06:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UL6KNN037538; Wed, 30 May 2007 15:06:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.dca.untd.com (outbound-mail.dca.untd.com [64.136.47.15]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4UL6F3v037392 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 15:06:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from webmail12.dca.untd.com (webmail12.dca.untd.com [10.171.12.152]) by smtpout04.dca.untd.com with SMTP id AABDF533HAZQ3ZH2 for (sender ); Wed, 30 May 2007 14:05:43 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn75VUfqmcW7Jix/J20ct01OTYaVY/CKKlbA== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by webmail12.dca.untd.com (jqueuemail) id MNZ3YGVY; Wed, 30 May 2007 14:05:17 PDT Received: from [208.96.229.2] by webmail12.dca.untd.com with HTTP: Wed, 30 May 2007 21:04:27 GMT X-Originating-IP: [208.96.229.2] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "penhalion@juno.com" Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 21:04:27 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] wearing hat indoors. X-Mailer: Webmail Version 4.0 Message-Id: <20070530.140517.13185.104153@webmail12.dca.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 2:1:3562792301 X-MAIL-INFO: 1ef4c46df4c5b9fd84fd9d7d6541a9a4dda5653d8924a1b5f970d534d06dd029f9d44104f074157171f0042d49040d21d0ad80a00d1959b16401657459856074e9f059ad1595a074c16975e5bd741d097100213550d0d150d414a59434d134b9b92145958d45c5848d3935b0552454b53165c191c93d990994d570d45055c059e959d91571d915490415491455347d642d9de47d90b9819dad9030804190016019c08dc0e07549e515c004 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.171.12.152|webmail12.dca.untd.com|webmail12.dca.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 8e23e0c1-0f95-47d3-abb9-8c8b74117934 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 465DE795.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 17:07:37 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO There's a type of little cap which I believe was worn with a robe ala fr= ancaise which resembles nothing so much as a doily with a few ribbon han= ging down the back. It's basically a starched round of fine linen, maybe= 3-4 inches in radius, with an edging of fine lace about 1- 1/2 inches w= ide. Then a little cluster of fine silk ribbons is attached via a stitch= ed bow at the back so the ribbon ends flow down to about the nape of the= neck. I believe it's just pinned to the top of the hair with a straight= pin. With your skills, I'm sure you could finish one of those off in no= time and she'd be correctly dressed. = Karen Seamstrix -- "Bjarne og Leif Drews" wrote: Hi, I am in the middle of finishing the red taffeta dress and i am also maki= ng a = hat to go with the dress, large brim, low crown. Now i just heard that the girl i am making it for is going to open an = exhibition at Gammel Estrup about table settings for tea and coffe, trou= gh = the ages. Its june 10th, just the day before i travel on holliday to Ita= ly. http://www.gammelestrup.dk/ Now i wished i had made her a cap, but i dont think i wil have the time = for = that. Wil she be able to wear the hat indoors, or wil it look strange? http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sofie3.htm Bjarne www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ = _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 17:40:40 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ULedLn006778 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 17:40:39 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4ULePgn028202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 17:40:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4ULdgDw033843 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 May 2007 15:39:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ULdeap068239; Wed, 30 May 2007 15:39:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from relay1.netspeed.com.au (relay1.netspeed.com.au [202.78.47.26]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4ULdZuS068143 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 15:39:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@netspeed.com.au) Received: from netspeed.com.au (unverified [202.78.47.28]) by NSmailstor (SurgeMail 3.8i3) with ESMTP id 18010885-1928045 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 07:40:18 +1000 Received: from [192.168.0.4] (unverified [210.9.140.61]) by NSmailstor (SurgeMail 3.8g) with ESMTP id 67733351-1928045 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 07:30:55 +1000 In-Reply-To: <000c01c7a2d7$8f8d77f0$2643a150@CPQ21932199711> References: <000c01c7a2d7$8f8d77f0$2643a150@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: garden@netspeed.com.au Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 07:39:34 +1000 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-X-Authenticated-User: garden@netspeed.com.au X-X-SpamDetect: : 0.000000 X-Info: aspam skipped due to (g_smite_skip_auth) X-IP-stats: Catcher Incoming Last 1, First 24, in=77, out=0, spam=0 Known=true ip=210.9.140.61 X-Originating-IP: 210.9.140.61 X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 534d771e-aa20-4dfd-9735-df59cf081371 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 465DEF49.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 17:40:29 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In Australia we call in vliesofix. I think its put out by Vilene. I used it a lot with Irish dance dresses. Cheers, Aylwen On 31/05/2007, at 2:28 AM, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > What is the name for that stuff? > Sounds wonderfull! > > Bjarne > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 6:13 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery > > >> >> In a message dated 5/30/2007 11:13:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> Deredere.Galbraith@kabelfoon.nl writes: >> >> Or appliques of wool or silk and gold cord stichet on by machine. >> >> >> >> ******************* >> >> There are some amazing things made now to help you with applique. >> I used >> this stuff that was, not sticky as in gooey, but a heat activated >> bonding >> material that clung to whatever you wanted before any heat was >> applied, so you >> could move it around if you wanted, but it stayed put if you >> didn't peal it up. >> It did not become permanent until you blasted it with the iron. It >> had paper on >> both sides since both sides of the bonding stuff was clingy. You >> drew on one >> side of the paper the design elements you wanted, then pulled the >> other, >> unmarked paper off and bonded the whole uncut thing to the back of >> your >> decorative fabric. Then cut it out [the edges resisted fraying >> after being bonded] >> then placed all the elements where they needed to go, moving them and >> adjusting them as needed [they cling to the fabric] and when you >> got things in place, >> blasted them with steam and heat. They were now on for good. >> >> I did this with velvet even, using a velvet board and ironing from >> the back. >> Since it clings really well, I could pick up the whole thing and >> turn it >> over. >> Since all the red seems to be outlined in gold cord, this might >> work out >> well for you. I ran around all my appliques with a tight zig-zag, >> but you could >> get away with a wider one just to make sure everything is down and >> not going >> to fray, then cover it up with gold braid or whatever. It'll >> still be time >> consuming, but look great! >> >> >> >> ************************************** See what's free at http:// >> www.aol.com. >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 19:12:49 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UNCmCO009333 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 19:12:49 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4UNCTJ0024188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 19:12:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4UNBjAe046138 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 May 2007 17:11:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UNBfht042794; Wed, 30 May 2007 17:11:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf5.socket.net (mf5m.socket.net [216.106.26.221]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4UNBaL8042753 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 17:11:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf5.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0BF3236C2A for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 18:11:36 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 18:11:52 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 0fb38400-a08f-4246-9246-7db81ce99df6 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 465E04DD.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 19:12:38 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO vliesofix is wonderunder in the states. What is being looked for is a fusible webbing the you apply to the back of the fabric and when you remove the backing the underside is a bit sticky so that it lessens the need for pins. Almost like basting spray. De -----Original Message----- In Australia we call in vliesofix. I think its put out by Vilene. I used it a lot with Irish dance dresses. Cheers, Aylwen On 31/05/2007, at 2:28 AM, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > What is the name for that stuff? > Sounds wonderfull! > > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 20:25:52 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4V0Pq0g011337 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 20:25:52 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4V0PbKJ031240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 20:25:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4V0Naks053777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 May 2007 18:23:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4V0NWW9086771; Wed, 30 May 2007 18:23:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.179]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4V0NUOV086751 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 18:23:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id z74so4879961pyg for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 17:23:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=thx0LQsLP5Xxwiir7lX83zWGGU9K+IoH0P15eJHO0EQIMB66kAjA7oH2W8K7Ywbna603tvK96UxXOoOJtGld9YVnlBlpKwj+dXfGtk/aDRqWtsC/SYGRo2DWCOxD3sfEoSOjYcwdDgIQjjKi7PXIgkI0+aNtM24pNmNrHkE4gZg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=jEovMoASzxdVimDnKjZdgDAWWexQdWz8vdMLuOn61ybT/yFSxQm/Z409Z9TFPIJ1J7WPZyRVcgjec2b5c46UjudlXxvAs80n5lo5v034xA9E0N2CShyZzdIc39t5vq1H67ZCT500RI7gUUrmGrTbTEo3O9o3ZTDZ6iQTF9s9qwE= Received: by 10.65.113.17 with SMTP id q17mr1089qbm.1180571010451; Wed, 30 May 2007 17:23:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.75.10 with HTTP; Wed, 30 May 2007 17:23:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c0705301723m23db34dctf9e98651deb03143@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 17:23:30 -0700 From: "Lynn Downward" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blue Velvet Henrician Suite In-Reply-To: <583850.28283.qm@web32201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <583850.28283.qm@web32201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4d70d838-b622-48b0-bb6c-24e728bdaeb5 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 465E1601.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 20:25:41 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Very nice, Kimiko! LynnD On 5/25/07, Kimiko Small wrote: > Hi all, > > I cross posted to a few lists, so sorry if you get > this more than once. > > I wanted to share the last big project I had been > working on for a client, and now most of the photos > are uploaded for viewing. > > This is a blue cotton velvet Henrician suite of > garments, including doublet and sleeves, slashed with > small puffs of fine linen. The same material is used > for the jacket with attached skirt. All is trimmed in > gold cord, cream and gold trim, and beautiful gold > jewels imported from England. Also there is a cream > wool flannel pair of breeches with slash & puff > codpiece, and a simple white linen shirt. It is > finished with a white silk sash. > > Sadly, I don't have a man's dress form to put it on, > so it was placed on my oversized woman's dress form, > so it isn't as nice looking as I would like. I do hope > to get photos of the client in the whole thing later > this summer. > http://www.flickr.com/photos/41633059@N00/sets/72157600027344164/ > > Eventually this will end up on my web site. > > Kimiko Small > http://www.kimiko1.com > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433 > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 21:50:29 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4V1oSeM013923 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 21:50:29 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4V1oEO4011212 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 21:50:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4V1mdso063012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 May 2007 19:48:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4V1mZJv036863; Wed, 30 May 2007 19:48:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4V1mWAi036808 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 19:48:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A78F182C00A0; Thu, 31 May 2007 01:40:31 +0000 From: "Sharon Collier" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 18:48:25 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01c7a325$c7412040$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 In-Reply-To: <000c01c7a2d7$8f8d77f0$2643a150@CPQ21932199711> X-CommKal-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude for spam and viruses. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1ca0fda1-68db-4e6c-9a50-1cfa656f8efb X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 465E29D6.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 21:50:18 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Are you talking about Wonder Under? It is a fusible material, with paper = on one side. You iron it to your fabric, then you can draw on the paper. = Cut out the design, peel off the paper and you have a custom, iron-on = appliqu=E9. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] = On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 9:28 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery What is the name for that stuff? Sounds wonderfull! Bjarne ----- Original Message -----=20 From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery > > In a message dated 5/30/2007 11:13:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > Deredere.Galbraith@kabelfoon.nl writes: > > Or appliques of wool or silk and gold cord stichet on by machine. > > > > ******************* > > There are some amazing things made now to help you with applique. I = used > this stuff that was, not sticky as in gooey, but a heat activated = bonding > material that clung to whatever you wanted before any heat was = applied, so > you > could move it around if you wanted, but it stayed put if you didn't = peal=20 > it up. > It did not become permanent until you blasted it with the iron. It had = > paper on > both sides since both sides of the bonding stuff was clingy. You drew = on=20 > one > side of the paper the design elements you wanted, then pulled the = other, > unmarked paper off and bonded the whole uncut thing to the back of = your > decorative fabric. Then cut it out [the edges resisted fraying after = being > bonded] > then placed all the elements where they needed to go, moving them and > adjusting them as needed [they cling to the fabric] and when you got=20 > things in place, > blasted them with steam and heat. They were now on for good. > > I did this with velvet even, using a velvet board and ironing from the = > back. > Since it clings really well, I could pick up the whole thing and turn = it > over. > Since all the red seems to be outlined in gold cord, this might work = out > well for you. I ran around all my appliques with a tight zig-zag, but = you=20 > could > get away with a wider one just to make sure everything is down and not = > going > to fray, then cover it up with gold braid or whatever. It'll still be = > time > consuming, but look great! > > > > ************************************** See what's free at=20 > http://www.aol.com. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >=20 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 30 22:16:16 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4V2GGSj014704 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 22:16:16 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4V2G1CJ009696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 May 2007 22:16:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4V2FgFM065540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 May 2007 20:15:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4V2Ffif052112; Wed, 30 May 2007 20:15:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net [71.162.243.5]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4V2FcOD052092 for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 20:15:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minx.thyrsus.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C04497000CC for ; Wed, 30 May 2007 22:13:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blue Velvet Henrician Suite Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 22:12:59 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 References: <583850.28283.qm@web32201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8296995c0705301723m23db34dctf9e98651deb03143@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <8296995c0705301723m23db34dctf9e98651deb03143@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200705302213.00113.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: e0d33b84-3d47-4e84-9a85-37082c14bd49 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 465E2FE1.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 30 May 2007 22:16:05 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO > On 5/25/07, Kimiko Small wrote: > > Hi all, [snip] > > I wanted to share the last big project I had been > > working on for a client, and now most of the photos > > are uploaded for viewing. > > > > This is a blue cotton velvet Henrician suite of > > garments, including doublet and sleeves, slashed with > > small puffs of fine linen. The same material is used > > for the jacket with attached skirt. All is trimmed in > > gold cord, cream and gold trim, and beautiful gold > > jewels imported from England. Also there is a cream > > wool flannel pair of breeches with slash & puff > > codpiece, and a simple white linen shirt. Very nice workmanship. -- Cathy Raymond "You've got to have the proper amount of disrespect for what you do." -- George Mabry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 31 12:16:32 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VGGWMn010713 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 12:16:32 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4VGGIfI024868 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 May 2007 12:16:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4VGFMVD099242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 31 May 2007 10:15:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VGFCMJ083913; Thu, 31 May 2007 10:15:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web30808.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30808.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.151]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4VGF8vb083763 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 10:15:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from morrghan92@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 88246 invoked by uid 60001); 31 May 2007 16:15:02 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=b/stZw/8Sp3RVN/pDFlRo/wnMEAaLoWK6TZMGBPfAV1VGKZYRT71nIZtGhH5EO80IbbEO6LBSgatv0jtf3jNeFoHdqauNlQjNE36pwA+iwAtD0vW4DL3iR4EoN2CdPvf9Hu4BjRca8cDzVNimmHASA7fzMO774rhmUQcvY1tf6E=; X-YMail-OSG: 3MuGeLkVM1nTNq1.7u5dQVszIOTvh4SjPbontdDHvgjhgWJZbb8lnzIb8w6JQ.5o72twt1QYNHAqR8qBErLZRrtj5wOSbazyzuHEwIkikjP14_5ygNE- Received: from [68.142.201.145] by web30808.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 31 May 2007 09:15:02 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.29 YahooMailWebService/0.7.41.16 Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 09:15:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Sara Snellings Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery To: Historical Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <570178.86864.qm@web30808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=47% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 84ef2346-8c18-4a70-9562-39188808aea4 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 465EF4D2.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 31 May 2007 12:16:22 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I think the product you are looking for is "Steam a Seam" it has protective paper on both sides of the webbing, because it is sticky before ironing. Here is the website: http://www.warmcompany.com/saspage.html Morrghan ----- Original Message ---- From: otsisto To: Historical Costume Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 4:11:52 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] 16th century dress question embroidery vliesofix is wonderunder in the states. What is being looked for is a fusible webbing the you apply to the back of the fabric and when you remove the backing the underside is a bit sticky so that it lessens the need for pins. Almost like basting spray. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ____________________________________________________________________________________ Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 31 12:54:03 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VGs3e9011718 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 12:54:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4VGrnPD007265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 May 2007 12:53:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4VGaCmD032131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 31 May 2007 10:36:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VGa7Mr001339; Thu, 31 May 2007 10:36:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from arkroyal.concentric.com (arkroyal.concentric.com [207.155.252.195]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VGa23h001245 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 10:36:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: by arkroyal.concentric.com (ConcentricHost(2.54) Relay, from userid 500) id 733C15A54C; Thu, 31 May 2007 12:36:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 209.78.214.253 (as jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) by register.concentric.com (207.155.252.195) with Concentric Web Mail; Thu, 31 May 2007 09:36:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Julie To: , Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 09:36:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200705311615.l4VGFF5x083954@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <20070531163602.733C15A54C@arkroyal.concentric.com> X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] embroidery question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f1115a9b-5b62-4e3c-a203-a78b1fb5772f X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 465EFD9D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 31 May 2007 12:53:52 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I've used Wonder Under when I was planning a machine satin stitch over the = applique. I'm looking for a way to keep the edges turned under for hand ap= plique. I usually sew my applique with a backing of some very light fabric= - maybe even netting - and then turn the shape much like a pillowcase. No= fighting with teeny seam allowances but doesn't stick to the base fabric e= ither. Any ideas for sticking? Julie ---- wrote: > Are you talking about Wonder Under? It is a fusible material, with paper = > on one side. You iron it to your fabric, then you can draw on the paper. = > Cutout the design, peel off the paper and you have a custom, iron-on appl= iqu=C3=A9. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 31 12:58:02 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VGw1iQ011823 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 12:58:01 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4VGvl1R026027 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 May 2007 12:57:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4VGaDD5032155 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 31 May 2007 10:36:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VGaC69001410; Thu, 31 May 2007 10:36:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from arkroyal.concentric.com (arkroyal.concentric.com [207.155.252.195]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VGa68G001320 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 10:36:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: by arkroyal.concentric.com (ConcentricHost(2.54) Relay, from userid 500) id 733C15A54C; Thu, 31 May 2007 12:36:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 209.78.214.253 (as jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) by register.concentric.com (207.155.252.195) with Concentric Web Mail; Thu, 31 May 2007 09:36:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Julie To: , Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 09:36:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200705311615.l4VGFF5x083954@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <20070531163602.733C15A54C@arkroyal.concentric.com> X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] embroidery question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5e906b05-d3fa-468b-8358-b92982f22e34 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 465EFE8B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 31 May 2007 12:57:51 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO I've used Wonder Under when I was planning a machine satin stitch over the = applique. I'm looking for a way to keep the edges turned under for hand ap= plique. I usually sew my applique with a backing of some very light fabric= - maybe even netting - and then turn the shape much like a pillowcase. No= fighting with teeny seam allowances but doesn't stick to the base fabric e= ither. Any ideas for sticking? Julie ---- wrote: > Are you talking about Wonder Under? It is a fusible material, with paper = > on one side. You iron it to your fabric, then you can draw on the paper. = > Cutout the design, peel off the paper and you have a custom, iron-on appl= iqu=C3=A9. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 31 13:07:13 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VH7DNk012080 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 13:07:13 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4VH6x0q029198 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 May 2007 13:07:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4VH6QR9097061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 31 May 2007 11:06:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VH6ORP029665; Thu, 31 May 2007 11:06:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from webmail02.unl.edu (webmail02.unl.edu [129.93.1.48]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VH6Kmj029616 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 11:06:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from 00217146@bigred.unl.edu) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by webmail02.unl.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) id l4VH6Ju26780 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 31 May 2007 12:06:19 -0500 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery question Message-ID: <1180631179.465f008b880f8@webmail02.unl.edu> Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 12:06:19 -0500 (CDT) From: 00217146@bigred.unl.edu References: <20070531163602.733C15A54C@arkroyal.concentric.com> In-Reply-To: <20070531163602.733C15A54C@arkroyal.concentric.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.6 X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: net.indra.com 1290; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 917beba5-831a-4dd6-b5ee-d2db8423cffa X-Miltered: at mailchk-m03 with ID 465F00B3.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m03.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 31 May 2007 13:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO You could use the same technique with fusible interfacing. Turn it like a pillowcase with the glue-side out, and you can then position and iron down your bits to be stitched by hand. Emma > I've used Wonder Under when I was planning a machine satin stitch over > the applique. I'm looking for a way to keep the edges turned under for > hand applique. I usually sew my applique with a backing of some very > light fabric - maybe even netting - and then turn the shape much like a > pillowcase. No fighting with teeny seam allowances but doesn't stick to > the base fabric either. Any ideas for sticking? > > Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 31 13:41:44 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VHfiY2012980 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 13:41:44 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4VHfUIB023186 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 May 2007 13:41:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4VHevki003120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 31 May 2007 11:40:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VHerkM061512; Thu, 31 May 2007 11:40:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf5.socket.net (mf5m.socket.net [216.106.26.221]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VHemOw061436 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 11:40:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf5.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CCB9536B10 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 12:40:47 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] embroidery question Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 12:41:06 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <1180631179.465f008b880f8@webmail02.unl.edu> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 882c79f6-d354-45b0-97c3-16e2c599b87e X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 465F08CA.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 31 May 2007 13:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Pym basting tape. http://www.dritz.com/brands/showcase/details.php?ITEM_NUM=4518Q -----Original Message----- I'm looking for a way to keep the edges turned under for hand applique. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 31 13:51:42 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VHpgXX013235 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 13:51:42 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4VHpSJB031426 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 May 2007 13:51:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4VHoxoY005193 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 31 May 2007 11:50:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VHouMP070319; Thu, 31 May 2007 11:50:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from barra1.swissinfo.org (barra1.barra.srg.ch [146.159.6.75]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VHopY6070131 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 11:50:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from swissgirl@swissinfo.org) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1180632178-423801850000-L6CAXr X-Barracuda-URL: http://146.159.6.75:8000/cgi-bin/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Connect: kuma.sri.ch[194.6.181.33] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1180632178 X-ASG-Whitelist: Sender Received: from mail.swissinfo.org (kuma.sri.ch [194.6.181.33]) by barra1.swissinfo.org (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id F206692C50 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 19:22:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from compaqub (24.217.99.41) by mail.swissinfo.org (7.2.064.1) (authenticated as swissgirl) id 45DAE0BC03E70634 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 31 May 2007 19:22:55 +0200 Message-ID: <002701c7a3a8$66167710$dd00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20070531163602.733C15A54C@arkroyal.concentric.com> X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [h-cost] embroidery question Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery question Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 12:23:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Barracuda-Virus-Scanned: by Barracuda Spam Firewall at swissinfo.org X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7be94834-d274-4bc8-ac66-fa2e085806d8 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 465F0B20.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 31 May 2007 13:51:32 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie" <> Maybe try putting the Wonder Under on the right side of the netting before you sew it to the applique? It'd make it a little tough to get the applique "pillow" flat before applying it, but it would probably also make it easier to fingerpress. -E _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 31 13:54:53 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VHsrZE013315 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 13:54:53 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4VHscS5000436 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 May 2007 13:54:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4VHs4Q4005687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 31 May 2007 11:54:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VHs2ci073031; Thu, 31 May 2007 11:54:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.129]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4VHrwpP072868 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 11:53:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ctrvlyfarm@sbcglobal.net) Received: (qmail 61672 invoked by uid 60001); 31 May 2007 17:53:52 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=FFxDF1ztTljA26HukzzZ+fhxVnTEUAa5lb70uz2O18Yf9IBbRREbB1X53JOXzBMVC8ShiCzbV/w3h52uUvgka9k+Wutuw0BxbwfFG7o7KgeeznyVBZSl6r5YHDtt3wbmg6Q8o5T5/BmYK5NZfhZLdKBg5TcXZhRnGI8PVK/kI0w=; X-YMail-OSG: .EI6BZ0VM1nhqsGF.Zik6VIIfA_O7nAYc_wkyN5hn9Sk2MxF8kZkmdW1Y3Mf.vWUR0EWEfuSyYXhfhvAIOkPYUAKnrBmsdZmflnzFVOIee8I50BQItU- Received: from [68.77.176.169] by web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 31 May 2007 10:53:52 PDT Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:53:52 -0700 (PDT) From: REBECCA BURCH Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery question To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20070531163602.733C15A54C@arkroyal.concentric.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <790628.61173.qm@web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5eb01b4b-516d-4fa3-a3c4-a584bd32a4da X-Miltered: at mailchk-m02 with ID 465F0BDF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m02.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 31 May 2007 13:54:42 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO You can use the same technique with fusible interfacing, but if that makes it too thick you can also use the sheets of fusible bond. Bond one side to the underside of your fabric. Trace your pattern pieces on the back side (remember to reverse them) then cut them out. Peel the paper off, trim the paper piece back about 1/4", center it back on the fabric piece and iron the edge back over the paper. Then when you are ready to fuse to the base fabric, just pull the paper back out and iron in place. --- Julie wrote: > I've used Wonder Under when I was planning a machine > satin stitch over the applique. I'm looking for a > way to keep the edges turned under for hand > applique. I usually sew my applique with a backing > of some very light fabric - maybe even netting - and > then turn the shape much like a pillowcase. No > fighting with teeny seam allowances but doesn't > stick to the base fabric either. Any ideas for > sticking? > > Julie > > ---- wrote: > > Are you talking about Wonder Under? It is a > fusible material, with paper > on one side. You iron > it to your fabric, then you can draw on the paper. > > Cutout the design, peel off the paper and you have a > custom, iron-on appliqué. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Rebecca Burch Center Valley Farm Duncan Falls, Ohio, USA The only twelve steps I'm interested in are the ones between the flat folds and the brocades. --Anonymous Costumer-- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 31 14:40:57 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VIevi9014680 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 14:40:57 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4VIeh3S030599 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 May 2007 14:40:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4VIdqq3012144 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 31 May 2007 12:39:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VIdnkW012195; Thu, 31 May 2007 12:39:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VIdejh011943 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 12:39:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED5D8D12AF for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 13:39:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <465F166E.8000506@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 13:39:42 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery question References: <20070531163602.733C15A54C@arkroyal.concentric.com> In-Reply-To: <20070531163602.733C15A54C@arkroyal.concentric.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4bb0334d-7186-4cf6-95e7-605bb1d90a0a X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 465F16AB.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 31 May 2007 14:40:47 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Julie wrote: > I've used Wonder Under when I was planning a machine satin stitch over the applique. I'm looking for a way to keep the edges turned under for hand applique. I usually sew my applique with a backing of some very light fabric - maybe even netting - and then turn the shape much like a pillowcase. No fighting with teeny seam allowances but doesn't stick to the base fabric either. Any ideas for sticking? > I don't do a lot of applique anymore, but I do know one trick with the Wonder Under type products. You can apply the iron very lightly, maybe not even touching the fabric, just getting it warm a bit, and it will cause the web to melt enough to hold it in place, but not so much that you can't peel it off and move it if you need to. Practice with some scraps to get a feel for what setting on the iron to use and how long to hold it there. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 31 14:57:47 2007 Return-Path: Received: from psyche.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VIvlSR015265 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 14:57:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psyche.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4VIvX6r029086 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 May 2007 14:57:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4VIufYo015279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 31 May 2007 12:56:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VIudmp027153; Thu, 31 May 2007 12:56:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32210.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32210.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.141]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4VIuZ4n027031 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 12:56:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sstormwatch@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 80302 invoked by uid 60001); 31 May 2007 18:56:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=zF3L/6Enwl5YWXXUiAFKwxHeKgv9XXKdRQMflwS6qy6W0m5ecIx3xvqmobiKaz8OkoDny6y7E5FlUh8EZhvKu9lobGGuU8q893WjH6J0RbHpsv6e9vIQGbB0+hz1uk10vkszG/v9STWBz5bZ/CrfF2o8p6uDEfLh74PmPrcgAkU=; X-YMail-OSG: wificwsVM1lKHCHAr.CS6b_tPx7eSnkkGrqCk4DYfrVc0_DyqFxOesLYQNdIFSD7FeNP9iFsPjK8dw6J1jDq1ywoc2PdHQXyw04288ul5K0fENxKmNt05hIgbL6Opw-- Received: from [129.8.204.63] by web32210.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 31 May 2007 11:56:30 PDT Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 11:56:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery question To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20070531163602.733C15A54C@arkroyal.concentric.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <735715.80277.qm@web32210.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=15% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f286381b-3608-4f14-802c-1221dabcb666 X-Miltered: at psyche with ID 465F1A9D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psyche.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 31 May 2007 14:57:37 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO You could always use a washable glue stick. Do as you have done before with a lightweight fabric or netting, and rub the glue stick to the back of the piece, put the applique where you want it, then press. It will only hold it until it is washed, but it makes the applique moveable, and you don't have to iron it down. Or use the Steam a Seam 2 tape I mentioned before. A small piece will stick to the applique back, then once you've positioned it where you want, you can iron it down for a permanent hold while you work. I also have tried the fusible interfacing trick, but found it too bulky sometimes. Kimiko --- Julie wrote: > I've used Wonder Under when I was planning a machine > satin stitch over the applique. I'm looking for a > way to keep the edges turned under for hand > applique. I usually sew my applique with a backing > of some very light fabric - maybe even netting - and > then turn the shape much like a pillowcase. No > fighting with teeny seam allowances but doesn't > stick to the base fabric either. Any ideas for > sticking? > > Julie ____________________________________________________________________________________ Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 31 15:04:43 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VJ4gum015460 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 15:04:42 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l4VJ4SPh014553 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 May 2007 15:04:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l4VJ3nMC016189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 31 May 2007 13:03:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l4VJ3l73033169; Thu, 31 May 2007 13:03:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.37.62]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l4VJ3gBj033029 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 13:03:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckenet@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 7403 invoked by uid 60001); 31 May 2007 19:03:36 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=CosQxveH9jjgJyMfrhOZ63TxcF2Gc4xvjFUnUvJ//wv3hLKZ8cusKmPU1uDVa1wQUb37TbGmWAQiLROxqjXhCjYXfZC158VFXP/9bVvTFJAyi8FEzFb3/ju7M0Qo4+JxtGMgTt2WqiFWHsPoVciMN7cmUPxh80h259YqhlJgPXI=; X-YMail-OSG: git7dogVM1mO2V6u6DHecEp1ZzwDQgwjjx49jxOC1KNszsOYkvJjZ_bPJwuItvr4u6rN6_k_LLZEtSNdz6nGJcO0emrQDXTaD6OyjeM3AFkxprJPf4DbVIFZRtgjWw-- Received: from [72.154.64.221] by web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 31 May 2007 12:03:36 PDT Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 12:03:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Kenet Muir Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery question To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20070531163602.733C15A54C@arkroyal.concentric.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <710887.5453.qm@web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=16% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 41d7cec5-9af3-4a5e-ae40-85c1efb47ba4 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m01 with ID 465F1C3C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m01.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 31 May 2007 15:04:32 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO In the past I have used the same method you related below when doing machine applique, but when I do hand applique I use a small amount of fabric spray adhesive to hold the pieces in place. Kenet --- Julie wrote: > I've used Wonder Under when I was planning a machine > satin stitch over the applique. I'm looking for a > way to keep the edges turned under for hand > applique. I usually sew my applique with a backing > of some very light fabric - maybe even netting - and > then turn the shape much like a pillowcase. No > fighting with teeny seam allowances but doesn't > stick to the base fabric either. Any ideas for > sticking? > > Julie > > ---- wrote: > > Are you talking about Wonder Under? It is a > fusible material, with paper > on one side. You iron > it to your fabric, then you can draw on the paper. > > Cutout the design, peel off the paper and you have a > custom, iron-on appliqué. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ____________________________________________________________________________________ TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 31 23:37:57 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l513buCL020099 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 23:37:56 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l513brDA032059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 May 2007 23:37:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l513b70G091720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 31 May 2007 21:37:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l513axnr018552; Thu, 31 May 2007 21:36:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l513asDg018421 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 21:36:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=radiks.net; b=n8CqF3KN7B2SzNdeGP15tLOEl7Fu6+m7cIECKoDsAdG+xtk20qCtplUjKt+Vyp+6; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [69.81.2.225] (helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HtxwX-00020e-5k for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 31 May 2007 23:36:49 -0400 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20070531223230.051ea750@pop.radiks.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 22:36:38 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200705311800.l4VI0F8o078237@net.indra.com> References: <200705311800.l4VI0F8o078237@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-ELNK-Trace: 4dc586d4c2c509b54091741908ea4e5350a04f4c739a9e726dafaee4536980e8c0bbf57baf7f8413350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.81.2.225 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: applique attachment X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 74ca8c63-2cd1-469a-a971-4aeb07d62df5 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m04 with ID 465F9491.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m04.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 31 May 2007 23:37:56 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Julie, Temporary spray adhesive? It's designed like the air-soluble marking pens - to lightly stick something down for embroidery then go away. Put your applique in a box to control over-spray, then lightly mist. This will make it like a post-it note. I believe there are glue sticks that are like post-it adhesive also, but I don't think they're designed for fabric. Also, as with anything, test first. I think the brand on the can I have is Sulky - same as the embroidery thread. HTH, Sandy At 01:00 PM 5/31/2007, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 09:36:02 -0700 (PDT) >From: Julie >Subject: [h-cost] embroidery question > >I've used Wonder Under when I was planning a machine satin stitch >over the applique. I'm looking for a way to keep the edges turned >under for hand applique. I usually sew my applique with a backing >of some very light fabric - maybe even netting - and then turn the >shape much like a pillowcase. No fighting with teeny seam >allowances but doesn't stick to the base fabric either. Any ideas >for sticking? > >Julie "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 1 00:30:37 2007 Return-Path: Received: from mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l514UbPb022261 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2007 00:30:37 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l514UX6Z018587 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 1 Jun 2007 00:30:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l514Rc4r099417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 31 May 2007 22:27:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l514RaAX049430; Thu, 31 May 2007 22:27:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web55309.mail.re4.yahoo.com (web55309.mail.re4.yahoo.com [206.190.58.188]) by net.indra.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l514RWdR049369 for ; Thu, 31 May 2007 22:27:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from faerieglenstudios@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 88653 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Jun 2007 04:27:27 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=G8SOW0a3MlcksRrW0H+fPjsJsUdA+XedG7OJB3aZhNWhXKX8Bpf13ax2AGNtWl4HASYRbNauER5d1B05Mhf+QyrLvw9MD0yDnFZooZ9ERk+sKpHwJwpCMpISIqaYLvTk48/uUYOPgScVaK1J4iqVFHMHJrwo9HkuEO0Y+jmgltI=; X-YMail-OSG: 9O3LKLgVM1k8_Y7bUQubvbqM4MXBPKNHyKQkMqKBVfpsjLgkMZWTbH3MmnIhKCu0kvVSzuDYycEWFbb6Mjwd_ZbGXUP6RVsE2XXbBbORU7TfXWZDWHFOQlhNkGpLru0Qqptov5K_PvI9EVOAxsUGI4rOOA-- Received: from [208.67.10.163] by web55309.mail.re4.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 31 May 2007 21:27:27 PDT Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 21:27:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Jodi Nelson To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <588066.88649.qm@web55309.mail.re4.yahoo.com> X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=18% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] Embroidery Question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: e4c3c7f6-38e8-46fd-b99c-231873343d13 X-Miltered: at mailchk-m05 with ID 465FA0E9.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.90.2, clamav-milter version 0.90.2 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailchk-m05.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 01 Jun 2007 00:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Roxanne's Basting Glue may be the answer. It is a water based glue and I have used it in several applique problems. Glue sticks also work very well. Wonder Under and Heat-N-Bond are fusible web products. Heavy duty in both jam up the sewing machine. Use ONLY in paper crafting, etc. Each is paper backed and fuses. I prefer Heat-N-Bond. It is slightly heavier than Wonder Under. Steam-A Seam and Steam-A-Seam 2 are also fusibles. They "stick" prior to being fused into place and can be repositioned before fusing several times. They sometimes are able to be "losened" after fusing , but I don't recommend it. I was not very happy with my experience using it in a applique quilt top I made, but it was provided for me by the quilt store I made the sample for. Jodi --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume