From: Gretchen Miller Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 19:16:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 66, 3/8/94 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 66, March 8, 1994 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu For archives of this digest, send mail to close@lunch.asd.sgi.com Thanks and Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: Opinions about commercially available historical patterns More on footwear Patterns available via ftp? ---------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 16:22:38 -0800 From: gleason@scf28.scf.loral.com (Robert Gleason) Subject: Re: footwear >> Would anyone other than me be interested in a pattern evaluation thread on commercially available historical patterns? I for one would love to hear some evaluations! I've already gotten burned a couple of times buying patterns that are poor at best. Robert. ---------------------------- From: close@lunch.asd.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Re: Pattern Evaluation Thread Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 16:43:56 -0800 (PST) > Would anyone other than me be interested in a pattern evaluation thread on > commercially available historical patterns? I know I would!! Let me keep things rolling by saying that I've found the that patterns by Fairwinds come the closest to offering what the "big three" major pattern companys offer (that is, Simplicity, McCall's and Butterick/Vogue) in the way of instructions and ease of garment creation. Unfortunately they offer only six patterns in the narrow spectrum of 1900 to 1940, pretty well one from each decade. I own "1925 Jazz Baby", which they rate as advanced/very difficult. The only really difficult thing about this pattern is the basic smocking that goes into the dress's skirt. The pattern goes together like a dream and it looks great too! I've seen the "princess bride" 1930's wedding dress in the finished form and the creator of that work was very satisfied with the pattern instructions as well as the finished fit. I've been very, very happy with this company's offerings and haven't heard anyone complain about them except to say they wish they offered more patterns. Old World Enterprises is short on instructions but tends to fit like they say they do. The finished garments look a lot like the envelope illustrations, too, which is more than I can say for many of the Folkwear patterns. I've complained about them before :-), but Folkwear does offer something between O.W.E.'s one or two brief sheets of instructions and FairWinds all out sewing-like-the-pros help. I've found that many of Folkwear's illustrations must've been adjusted to fit a particular form, because the pattern off the pattern sheets often doesn't look quite as illustrated ("poetic license"? :-). I've found Folkwear easy to adjust, fit-wise, and have taken the Armistice blouse from a close-fitting, cropped pattern to a tuck-in-your-jeans shirtish fit, rather easily. -- Diane Barlow Close close@lunch.asd.sgi.com I'm at lunch today. :-) ---------------------------- From: DGC3%RatesComm%FAR@bangate.pge.com Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 16:50:33 PST Subject: re: Historic Patterns Critique Yea, Keegan! I want to hear what fun other people have with historical patterns. I promise to share if others are interested. My frustrations have driven me to drafting my own patterns -- it's about the same amount of fuss. Pattern or drafted, the first garment I make from a pattern is the sacrificial lamb and I am resigned to it being full of mistakes. (I don't have much time to sew, so I wear my "muslins," made up in a cheap fabric, and look forward to doing it better next time.) My special peeve right now is that pattern graders seem to assume that one's arms grow along with one's waist; instead, my arms remained a size 12 while my torso expanded to a size 20. This has resulted in some rather curious garments of late, including an 1860 bodice that completely hides the engageants, and a Regency spencer with sleeves 6 inches over the fingertips-- a bit more than even the fashion plates suggest. I used to think a sleeve is a sleeve, but now I know... --Danine Cozzens dgc3@pge.com ---------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Mar 94 16:57:15 PST From: zdlmail.ziff.com!aepler@zdlmail.ziff.com (Epler, Anita) Subject: re: Footwear >'Queta's Closet (an SCA-oriented pattern company) ... also sells a variety of > other medieval footwear patterns and other stuff, too. >She sells out of Trimeris (Florida) and also carries a number of hats, collars >and other accessories patterns. Does she do any business by mail-order? A catalog? (I know, I'm dreaming!). I've been looking for shoe patterns. >Would anyone other than me be interested in a pattern evaluation thread on >commercially available historical patterns? Definitely. My experience has been generally less-than-stellar in this area. - Anita BTW: I guess I just de-lurked myself, after sitting in the wings since almost day 1 on this list. A bio will follow shortly, I guess. :) ===================================== Anita Epler aepler@zdlabs.ziff.com Project Leader, MacUser/MacWEEK ZD Labs/Ziff-Davis Publishing Company Foster City, California ------------------------------------- All opinions expressed are my own ------------------------------------- ---------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Mar 94 17:52:52 PDT From: Cindy Subject: Gillies & leatherwork >> problems with is shoes. I need some kind of boots that will work for >> my persona, 13th cent England. I am willing to make them If I cant buy >There is a shoe of ancient design that survived in Scotland through many >centuries known as the "gillie". This was made of a single piece of leather >that could be cut and readily bent. 8oz vegetable-tanned leather is >appropriate, as are heavier weights. Unfortunately, I would not be able >to really describe it well except to say that it was a "fenestrated" shoe >design and was very flexible. Wonderful construction article, BTW, do you have any primary sources to cite? >Now, after the first time or two you've worn them, they will become too >large. This is normal. Just get out your shears and punch and re-adjust >your gillies. On fitting leather, gloves, in particular, my fencing master recommends the following method. Boil the article for about 20 minutes in clear water. The water will soften and stretch the leather. Some dyes may run, consider adding salt as a mordant. Remove the gloves from the water and let them cool. Wear them until they dry thoroughly. The creases you put in the gloves as you use them while they dry and shrink will be in the exact right place for your fingers. Finally, rub mink oil into the item. You should have a supple item that fits like a .. glove. This is wonderful for getting your spatterdashers to fit and flex at the ankle. Drying time depends on the humidity (Silicon Valley summers about 2 1/2 hours). I dont recommend this method for kid and other delicate or fine-looking gloves. For work or swashbuckling or distressing new articles into old, it's very successful. --cin cin@caere.com ---------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 23:11:05 -0330 (NST) From: Todd Reid Subject: FTP sites? To: Historic Costumes Mailing List Maybe I'm just just being cheap, or may it's economising, (I've learned that from being a student and trying to get enough money to eat), Or maybe I can't just simply can't afford it because I am still a student, But does any one out there know If there are any FTP sites for mideval costume patterns? How's that for a run on sentence! Thanks, Todd P.S. It could also be due to dealing with stubborn shipping personel in trying to tell them where newfoundland is. If you don't know, It's the big island just north of Maine and east of Halifax. Canada. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Todd A. Reid is ever reachable at treid@morgan.ucs.mun.ca In the eyes of society, students are the lowest form of life. That is next to of course the unemployed. Unfortunately most students are unemployed. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------------- From: Gary Link Subject: Shoes and Books Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 23:46:30 -0500 (EST) Greetings all. Sorry for the lack of participation lately, but I've been busy writing to meet a deadline. Hi Kristen. :-) Some books to consider for making shoes: _Shoes and Pattens_ by Francis Grew and Margrethe de Neergard, published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, ISBN 0 11 290443 2. Cost in the US for the paperback approx $40.00 last time I looked. This book covers shoes and pattens found in various sites around London, covering the time period 1100-1450. It deals with materials, stitching styles, embellishments and the like, including information on wear patterns and foot deformities. For someone who wants something appropriate to the above time periods, you could do worse. Also: _Primitive Shoes_ by Margrethe Hald, published by The National Museum of Denmark, ISBN 87 480 7282 6. Published in 1972, I believe it is out of print, but probably available through ILL. It covers finds from the Jutland Peninsula from the Bronze Age to present day. Some of the shoes look extremely comfortable, and seem to be made somewhat along the lines of 'ghillies'. There are a number of shoes from Oseburg ships ca 850-900 that look quite serviceable too. Hope this helps. -Susanna ---------------------------- Date: 08 Mar 94 07:45 GMT From: SCM.MANKER@AppleLink.Apple.COM (Nichols, Kristen) Subject: Re: costuming term >Mom-in-law has managed to figure out what most of these are, but the term >"rigolette" (sp?) has really proved difficult to figure out. Does anyone know >to what this refers? Thanks! Well, I poured through Fairchild's Dictionary of Fashion and found no listing for rigolette. I tried all types of weird spellings and again no such luck. If no one can answer your question perhaps you can quote a passage from GGGramma's letters and maybe someone can figure it out. Kristen ---------------------------- From: WALTER@tandem.physics.upenn.edu Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 09:14 EDT Subject: patterns Yes, please, I would really like to hear pattern evaluations. I fear I'm about to invest in some 19th c. patterns. Does anyone have any comments on Past Patterns? Also, does anyone know of a company that sells a 1820's dress pattern? Something transitional between Empire and early Victorian is what I'm hoping for. I've made a lot of Folkwear patterns myself -- the fitted styles usually need some adjustment. I also find that the instructions for deocrative techniques (smocking, tucking, insertion) are often more time-consuming than they need to be, and require a lot of time spent drawing lines on the fabric that you hope will come out later. (I still have a camisole with some yellow tracing paper lines that won't come out.) The patterns I've made have looked nice when finished, however -- most recently the Edwardian petticoat. As an aside, many thanks to all who gave me dress form advice. The "uniquely you" is up and running now, and proving very useful indeed! It's marvelous to be able to pin something up the back yourself, without becoming a contortionist! Thanks again! Karen Walter walter@tandem.physics.upenn.edu ---------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 08:53:19 -0800 From: gleason@scf28.scf.loral.com (Robert Gleason) Subject: Re: Shoes and Books Susanna writes: Some books to consider for making shoes: _Shoes and Pattens_ by Francis Grew and Margrethe de Neergard, published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office, ISBN 0 11 290443 2. Cost in the US for the paperback approx $40.00 last time I looked. ... I tried getting this book from the U.S. office of HMSO in Maryland. They say it is out of print and they won't get any more probably. Does anybody know where I could get this book? I really, Really, REALLY want it! New or used is ok but I don't want to pay more than $45 for it. Robert. ---------------------------- Date: 8 Mar 1994 10:42:05 U From: "Blake, Roberta" Subject: RE: Pattern Eval yes, yes... i've just bought my first patterns: --Folkwear's poet shirt --the Jean Babani (sp?) 1920 Afternoon dress from Folkwear (i've ordered but not received this one) i've selected these not only because i like them but also because they appeared to be relatively *easy* to sew. i plan to try making the poet shirt first (i've just purchased some fine white muslin.) then the dress project will be next. since i'm a novice i would appreciate any comments from others who have used either of these before...comments, tips, tricks...the voice of experience. i'd welcome any recommendations on patterns for beginners in general... especially...if anyone has a recommendation on a not too difficult English Regency gown/Spencer jacket pattern(s)...i was thinking of attempting to draft a pattern from the Arnold book as a third project. has anyone done this? BTW, does anyone else plan 2 projects ahead, or do i have some sort of sewing-bug? :-) -- roberta roberta@srs.loral.com ---------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 11:46:48 -0800 From: gleason@scf28.scf.loral.com (Robert Gleason) Subject: RE: Pattern Eval > BTW, does anyone else plan 2 projects ahead, or do i have some sort of sewing-bug? :-) I currently have one project in process, 4 on deck, and 4 more I'm brainstorming on. My wife has 4 more in the wings. We've got enough fabric to fill a small closet. For those of you looking at Period Pattens be Medieval Miscellania I recommend that you do just that. Look. That is if you are not into reworking patterns and using your intuition to get it right. While the source information is good the actual directions are only ok. I found it easier to do the men's cotehardie in a slightly different order that they say to. Also, the arms tend to bind easily so I learned to cut a little large. My wife had a miserable time with the female version of this pattern. She cut a size larger than her and it was still too small. If you use these patterns take your time and think things out and test wear as you go. Has anyone else used the MM patterns? Whadja think? I have the pattern for a padded lenter (gambeson, jack) that I thinking about trying. Any suggestions? - Robert ---------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 12:35:53 -0600 (CST) From: "Donna Holsten" Subject: RE: Pattern Eval > For those of you looking at Period Pattens be Medieval Miscellania I > recommend that you do just that. Look. > Has anyone else used the MM patterns? Whadja think? > - Robert I've used their houppelande pattern and the men's doublet/trunkhose pattern. The houppleande pattern was O.K. It's hard to get a houppelande wrong. ;-) The armholes were a little tight, though. The doublet pattern is lousy! It's good to use to get the basic shape, but it runs about 5 sizes too small! I made my husband a doublet out of the pattern (way back when, when I didn't know much about sewing, and even less about *historical* sewing), and he couldn't breathe, even though I used the "right" size. The trunkhose patterns aren't that great, either. You're better off just using a regular shorts pattern and making it bigger. The pattern for the Venetians isn't bad, though. But it runs a little small, too. Really, the best thing to do for Elizabethan garb is get a copy of Janet Arnold's book. It gives patterns for doublets and trunkhose that are at least as good as the MM patterns, and they're *real* patterns with *real* construction details. I also have the MM pattern for late Tudor headgear. I haven't used it yet, but I've looked at it and been disappointed. Most of it seems pretty obvious, and I'm sure that I could have figured a lot of it out by myself, without paying $12 or whatever it was. Donna H. ---------------------------- Date: Tue 08 Mar 1994 13:21 PT To: h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu From: Catherine.Keegan@EMC2NCAL.IBMMAIL.COM Subject: Medieval Miscellanea Patterns They run the gamut from absolutely awful (the Tudor and Elizabethan pattern that they first put out) to pretty decent (men's Italian). If you tried them when they first came out, you might want to take a second look. Their early patterns were drafted by a size 4 who did not know how to grade. Their newer efforts are much, much better. I've used their Tudor Headdress pattern for the 'French Hood' and it turned out OK...it did need to be mucked with as the original pattern's 'crescent' piece was way too big to be in proportion with the rest of me. Their chemises are great and their shirts tend to run short in the sleeves. I'm not sure why the chemises have real length sleeves but the men's shirts are for someone with about 22' or 23' long arms. The houppelande pattern was ok. Nothing to get excited about, but all the pieces worked. The men's Italian pattern was nice. The undertunic with the 'V'ed collar is really a nice piece of work. The gambeson pattern tends to run way large. I was not terribly impressed with the pattern, but gambesons aren't really exciting garments. I noticed that Rocking Horse Ranch is now catering to the SCA trade with a woman's houppeland, a woman's cotehardie and sideless surcoat and a man's short tunic with spiffy sleeves (I think it's called a garnache, but my memory is full of computerese from being at work...). Any comments on their patterns? ---------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 13:44:22 -1000 (HST) From: Jan McEwen Subject: RE: Pattern Eval Roberta, > i've just bought my first patterns: > --Folkwear's poet shirt > --the Jean Babani (sp?) 1920 Afternoon dress from Folkwear (i've ordered > but not received this one) > i've selected these not only because i like them but also because they > appeared to be relatively *easy* to sew. i plan to try making the poet shirt > first (i've just purchased some fine white muslin.) > then the dress project will be next. I've sewn the poet's shirt. It wasn't very difficult, but it certainly wasn't as easy as I had expected. Those darn gussets! Around the neck as well as under the arms! I've seen shirts with the same look that are easier to sew (in fact, one of my friends has figured out how to draft this easier shirt, and is going to teach me how to do it also). To all: I like the idea of a discussion of historical (and ethnic?) commercial patterns, though I have not yet sewn many. I do have a lot of Folkwear, but the poet's shirt is the only one I've done. I have done two Medieval Miscellanea/Period Patterns: a cotehardie and an Italian Renaissance dress. The instructions for the cotehardie weren't bad, but the Italian Renaissance was confusing and I ended up making changes. The pattern for the cotehardie left a bump in the back middle seam (great if I were playing Richard III as a female), and another friend of mine was also not pleased with the pattern (she did another view). -- Jan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jan McEwen, Department of Horticulture, University of Hawaii Catriona Stewart, Barony of the Western Seas, Caid email: jmcewen@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu ---------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 13:54:22 -1000 (HST) From: Jan McEwen Subject: Re: Medieval Miscellanea Patterns Catherine, > I noticed that Rocking Horse Ranch is now catering to the SCA trade with a > woman's houppeland, a woman's cotehardie and sideless surcoat and a man's > short tunic with spiffy sleeves (I think it's called a garnache, but my memory > is full of computerese from being at work...). Any comments on their > patterns? I haven't heard of this company before. Do they do mail orders, and if so, do you have an address? Mahalo! -- Jan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jan McEwen, Department of Horticulture, University of Hawaii Catriona Stewart, Barony of the Western Seas, Caid email: jmcewen@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu ---------------------------- End of Volume 66 -----------------------