From: Gretchen Miller Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 18:52:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 87, 4/6/94 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 87, April 6, 1994 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu For archives of this digest, send mail to close@lunch.asd.sgi.com Thanks and Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: Costuming Tradition Historical Dance Class/Recital, SF Bay area Retrieving back issues of the digest Bye-bye "elegance" Pheasants Question and answer: Technical work on clothing manufacture --------------------------- Subject: Re: Costuming Tradition Date: Tue, 05 Apr 94 11:41:51 PDT From: Walter Nelson Caroline You ask "who comes up with these rules?" (referring to the Ren Faire costume guidelines). The answer is really nobody. These rules originated with someone of course, but since their birth, they have been subjected to the "folk process", and have long ago become independent of any research. They are simply handed down by word of mouth from generation to generation. I used them as an example, because they are the worst I have ever encountered. My point however is that such absurdities can become enshrined in tradition even in the most "authentic" group. I don't think we are really in disagreement about Venetians, though I think there is some confusion over terminology. What you are calling "slops", I am lumping under the heading of Venetians. I have seen the term slops used to indicate trunk hose, as well as the bulbous knee britches of sailors. I think we are saying the same thing, but using different terms. Of course, one must always be careful about terminology in the pre-industrial age. Every thing had many names, and every name could name many different things. And, to make things even worse, people have been making up new names for old things for centuries (e.g. the "Main Gauche" for the fencer's dagger). I guess the trick is to constantly define one's terms. That's an interesting point about pheasants. I will have to look into that. I have a Medieval hunting book that has about every critter known to the European ecosystem. The protopheasant should be in there. No need to hide your virtual head in virtual shame. Clearly, you take the time to do research, which is more than can be said for far too many of those who claim to be historical costumers (present virtual company excepted). Cheers Walter Nelson --------------------------- Date: Tue, 05 Apr 94 14:06:24 PDT From: Cindy Subject: SF Bay Area Lecture April 18, 1994 - Richard Powers teaches 19th Century dancing Monday evening from 8-10 at the Palo Alto Masonic Temple, 461 Florence St. Call 415.856.8044 for details or try isaacs@hpcc02.corp.hp.com via InterNet. Admission ~$10 April 15, 1994 - Historical Dance Recital The entire Stanford Historical Dance Ensemble will perform as they did at the Smithsonian. Richard Powers will show his slides and give an big lecture on Dance research and appropriate costume. Also included: how costume affects (has affected) dance style and vice versa. 8P, Roble Gym, Stanford University. No charge. --------------------------- From: close@lunch.asd.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: ADMIN: Back Digests Available Via Remote Means. To: h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (Historic Costume) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 18:14:01 -0700 (PDT) I'm pleased to announce that historic costume digests are now available for automatic retrieval, via e-mail. All of the back digests, going back to the inception of this list, are currently available this way. If I run out of room I'll have to remove some to tape, but they are all there for now! Note, though, that they are available in a slightly different format than digests you currently receive. Currently digests are numbered by volume numbers as they come from Gretchen's machine, but that is too difficult to duplicate via remote storage so, in this archive, digests are stored by year/month/day of creation, rather than by volume number. To get an index of available back issues of this list, send a message with the words: index h-costume in the body of the message, to majordomo@lunch.asd.sgi.com. Then use the command: get to retrieve the volumes you want. -- Diane Barlow Close close@lunch.asd.sgi.com I'm at lunch today. :-) --------------------------- From: close@lunch.asd.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: ADMIN: Elegance goes :-) To: h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (Historic Costume) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 18:34:46 -0700 (PDT) Oh, I forgot to mention... I updated the welcome message (and passed it on to Gretchen to incorporate on her end) to reflect the fact that the back digests are now available remotely, and I finally decided to chuck the word "elegance" from the group description and replace it with the simple "costume". All you living history people can now cheer quietly. :-D -- Diane Barlow Close close@lunch.asd.sgi.com I'm at lunch today. :-) --------------------------- From: close@lunch.asd.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: One teeny correction to retrieval instructions. Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 20:13:58 -0700 (PDT) You guys probably would've figured this out eventually, but I missed a step in those retrieval instructions. The correct way to get back issues is: To get an index of available back issues of this list, send a message with the words: index h-costume in the body of the message, to majordomo@lunch.asd.sgi.com. Then use the command: get h-costume hcos.yymmdd ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^ to retrieve the volumes you want. -- Diane Barlow Close close@lunch.asd.sgi.com I'm at lunch today. :-) --------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 23:02:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Pheasants On Tue, 5 Apr 1994, Walter Nelson wrote: > That's an interesting point about pheasants. I will have to look into > that. I have a Medieval hunting book that has about every critter known to > the European ecosystem. The protopheasant should be in there. That would be the ring-necked pheasant (Phasianus colchicus). "Birds in Medieval Manuscripts" by Brunsdon Yapp notes the earliest certain appearance (in manuscript illustrations) in the mid-14th century Luttrell Psalter, with a possible (if so, badly drawn) late 13th century example in the Windmill Psalter. The book notes that the pheasant was introduced into England in post-Norman times. Heather Rose Jones --------------------------- From: bednarek@tidalwave.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 02:55:54 CDT Subject: Re: Pheasants > From: Heather Rose Jones > > > On Tue, 5 Apr 1994, Walter Nelson wrote: > > > That's an interesting point about pheasants. I will have to look into > > that. I have a Medieval hunting book that has about every critter known to > > the European ecosystem. The protopheasant should be in there. > > That would be the ring-necked pheasant (Phasianus colchicus). "Birds in > Medieval Manuscripts" by Brunsdon Yapp notes the earliest certain appearance > (in manuscript illustrations) in the mid-14th century Luttrell Psalter, > with a possible (if so, badly drawn) late 13th century example in the > Windmill Psalter. The book notes that the pheasant was introduced into > England in post-Norman times. Yes I'm glad you mentioned introduced. Pheasants are NOT native to either the America's or Europe. They were introduced to both of our western continents from our eastern neighbors. However it is interesting to note that it happened way back in the 13th century for our European neighbors. Or was that just for England with the European mainland getting its introduction earlier? dennis --------------------------- From: J.A.Bray@bnr.co.uk Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 09:41:48 BST Subject: Re: Costuming Tradition >1. Pheasant is not royal (so far as I am aware ..) but it is a game >bird and subject to the Game Laws, so anyone wearing pheasant fethers not >of a suitable social status (ie to go hunting or associated with it) might >have to answer some awkward questions. The Breugal child wearing a peacock >feather might be in the same situation - except peacocks cast their >feathers, so I suppose he could have picked it up ... Pheasants moult aswell. We held a training weekend near a wood with pheasants. Pheasant's tail feathers were lying around on the ground, by the end of the weekend, there were a load of Viking warriors wandering round with pheasant feathers tucked into the brim of their hats. The really silly bit was that most of them were wearing spangenhelms, so they'd tucked the feathers into the steel band round the rim of the helmet :-) --------------------------- Date: Wed, 06 Apr 1994 06:46:37 -0600 (MDT) From: DIANA PATTERSON Subject: Technical Work on Cloth Manufacture? To: h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu I have for some time been interested in how certain fabrics were made, especially pre-industrially, but even post would do. How, for instance, is cre^pe made? How do they did they make tulle? I have read fairly widely in the works put out in the late 17thc. and early 18thc. when groups such as the Royal Society were interested in the crafts, and tried to write these things down. I have found little or nothing on fabric. Can anyone help? Such a work, especially if European, might help us all figure out what calico was _then_ as opposed to now--calico was, by the way, forbidden, at least according to Defoe, in the late 17th c. because Queen Mary had made it too popular and it was undermining the wool trade. Someone finally figured out that wool singlets worn next to the skin itched. (See _A Child's Christmas in Wales_.) Diana Patterson DPatterson@MtRoyal.AB.CA --------------------------- Date: 5 Apr 94 23:50:00 EST From: "Gina Balestracci" Subject: cloth manufacture A couple of sources for information on post-industrial revolution cloth manufacture would be the U Mass-South Dartmouth campus library (one of the original components of this campus was the New Bedford Textile Institute) and the New Bedford Textile Museum (a new and small enterprise, but they seem to have their act together. They've published a wonderful book on the strike of 1928 whose author is on the faculty at U Mass-SD). If anyone is in the vicinity of New Bedford (on the way to Cape Cod. follow the signs for Howland Place) it's worth a stop. They've got some looms from the now defunct Berkshire-Hathaway mill: Jacquard and some other types. I would also imagine that the National Historic Site at Lowell would have some good information, as well as the library at U Mass-Lowell (what used to be Lowell Tech had a textile component at one time, I believe). The whole restoration was just beginning when I graduated from what was then Lowell State College, and I haven't been back. All of this is, of course, post-industrial revolution. gb ---------------------------- End of Volume 87 -----------------------