From: Gretchen Miller Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 19:05:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 197, 12/9/94 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 197, December 9, 1994 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: ISO: Description of drawings of British Artillery Uniforms, 1755-63 Busks and corset boning materials Grommets/Eyelets/etc Saffron Superstitions about peacock feathers Tying garters pre 1650 Getting linen to take dye ISO Address for big Philadelphia fabric shop Making a figure-8 ruff Price of "Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked" ISO Source of Saffron Crocus bulbs ---------------------------- Date: Wed, 07 Dec 1994 18:09:55 -0400 (EDT) From: ROBBY Subject: British Royal Hello costumers, Would anyone out there know of a description or drawings of the British Artillery uniforms , circa 1755-1763. This would be during the French and Indian War. (seven years war to those britsout there.) thanks Rob ---------------------------- From: p.pettinger@genie.geis.com Date: Thu, 8 Dec 94 01:44:00 UTC Subject: corsets, etc. I made the Past Patterns 1850's corset, but had a problem finding a busk (not the piece of wood, but the 'hook and eye' thing some other patterns call for) that was long enough. As an inspiration, I pulled a couple of tines out of a lawn rake, straightened them, cut them to the proper length, filed the ends, then used them to extend the bottom of the busk. They were very rigid and worked well. A friend of mine used lawn mower springs (her dad repairs mowers) to make both her corset and hoop skirt. I have also made a serviceable corset out of plastic canvas. This was for a fantasy costume but the design was based on 18th century pannier gowns. I cut it all in one piece, and added extra strips along the edges where it would be laced. It was covered with felt on both sides, then the front was decorated since it would show, and the inside was lined with robe velour. Before covering, I reinforced the lacing holes with washers (yes, regular hardware washers). They work like eyelets, but wider, just by sewing them down. This corset held me in admirably (and I am a D cup) and has lasted thru several wearings. Sandy Pettinger ---------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 23:29:04 -0400 (CDT) From: andrea ruth leed Subject: Re: corsets, etc. Just as aside--using washers, or metal rings, and then sewing around them is actually a more period method than using grommets or eyelets. It's also a lot more work sewing them in. Drea ============================= aleed@ezmail.ucs.indiana.edu ---------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 23:20:56 -0800 (PST) From: "Sarah E. Goodman" Subject: Self Defeating > for a source of linen yardage in white or off-white, which I will dye > yellow with saffron and/or natural vegetable dyes. > > Do any of you know where I can get linen at an affordable price? The tunics Since saffron is currently slightly more expensive per ounce than gold, I suspect you want another natural dye! (Does anyone know if saffron was actually used. I've never heard the color described as anything else, but it seems that saffron would have been at least as expensive before modern transport {although the really cost has to do with the fact that it is the powder on the stamen of the plant and it takes lots of land hand has to be hand harvested--and hand labor was cheaper then}?) ---------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 23:25:51 -0800 (PST) From: "Sarah E. Goodman" Subject: Re: Ruffs and Peacocks > I always thought peacock feathers were unlucky in the house, but there is a > Breugel picture (Wedding feast) which shows a small boy in the foreground > with a peacock feather in his hat! Perhaps this is a modern superstition? I think this was originally a theatrical superstition, and I know it to be at least Victorian. Ditto umbrellas opened in the house (which has also made it main-stream) and hats on beds (about which I'm not so sure--lots of my friends give it lip service, but then lots of my friends were theatricals at one point or another.) I think there are some bad-luck colors, too, but don't remember which. And of course, we NEVER mention the name of the Scottish Play! ---------------------------- From: Jennifer Bray Date: Thu, 8 Dec 94 09:00:21 GMT Subject: Re: Self Defeating Saffron definately was used, in the English county of Essex there is a very pretty market town called Saffron Walden. The town grew rich in the days when England's prosperity was founded on the wool trade, and the name derives from the yellow dye which was grown and traded there. As a result the townsfolk grew rich and built the many beautiful timber framed houses which still line the streets. If you compare the flourescent dayglow yellow which is obtained from Saffron with the more golden yellow which comes from weld you will see why the dye was used despite the amount of labour required to harvest the crocus stamens. (As I said earlier I don't like the colour, but presumably my medieval forbears thought differently). Jennifer ---------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 21:50:08 -0800 From: Chris Laning Subject: garters To-hc@ Wednesday, December 7, 1994 p.1 There's a somewhat better-lit picture of the same garters (Eleanor of Toledo's, I think) in Bishop Richard Rutt's _A History of Hand Knitting_ (Interweave Press, 1989) p.71. Unfortunately in this picture the two garters are lying on top of each other. But the one whose tie can be clearly seen looks to me very much as if it were tied in a double bow (i.e. tie a bow, then tie its two loops in a simple overhand knot). I couldn't exactly duplicate the tie with a piece of yarn, but some of the bends in the knot are clearly twice as thick as others, and the knot comes out the right size relative to the yarn. Bishop Rutt says, "The silk garters were apparently tied below a top that turned over like a little English boy's stocking," and then goes on to describe the stocking pattern, but not the garters, further. They appear to be finely woven material, perhaps a ribbon or just a cloth strip. (BTW, I discovered the first time I used "points" of 1/8 inch modern ribbon that I had to tie the bow loops in *two* overhand knots, one on top of the other, unless I wanted them to come untied before the end of the day.) ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ ---------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Dec 1994 08:12:25 -0400 (CDT) From: andrea ruth leed Subject: medieval dyeing I know that linen, wool, silk and a tiny bit of cotton were used in the medieval world. Wool takes dyes very well, as does silk, but linen is the hardest fiber in the world to dye. How did they manage to obtain all those brilliant, eye-aching reds, blues, and greens? aside from cochineal, most of the natural dye recipies I've seen leave linen paler than anything I've seen in an illumination. ============================= aleed@ezmail.ucs.indiana.edu ---------------------------- Date: Thu 08 Dec 1994 07:59 CT From: UDSD007@DSIBM.OKLADOT.STATE.OK.US (Mike.Andrews ) Subject: Re: Self Defeating "Sarah E. Goodman" wrote: > > (Does anyone know if saffron was actually used. I've never heard the > color described as anything else, but it seems that saffron would have > been at least as expensive before modern transport {although the really > cost has to do with the fact that it is the powder on the stamen of the > plant and it takes lots of land hand has to be hand harvested--and hand > labor was cheaper then}?) Actually, it's not the powder, but dried flower parts themselves - not that it makes much difference, as the term "labor-intensive" doesn't even begin to describe what has to be done to gather them. -- Mike Andrews Mgr., Tech. Support, Okla. Dept. of Transportation udsd007@ibm.okladot.state.ok.us ---------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Dec 1994 9:06:55 -0600 (CST) From: Deb Subject: RE: corsets, etc. >Just as aside--using washers, or metal rings, and then sewing around them >is actually a more period method than using grommets or eyelets. > It's also a lot more work sewing them in. There is an El Greco (1541-1614, Spanish painter) painting showing exactly that. Flat metal rings, which look all the world like washers, are sewn onto the surface of the front of the gown. It is then cross laced up the front. I think that was a non-corset period (as I recall, she looks rather un-corsetted) but at least it is documentation that the washer-technique existed at THAT time period. Deb Baddorf baddorf@fnal.gov ---------------------------- From: Marsha Hamilton Subject: Philadelphia fabric store Date: Thu, 8 Dec 1994 11:04:16 -0500 (EST) I was told that when in Philadelphia, I should visit the huge fabric store there (similar to the G-Street Remnant Shop in Washington in quantity). Does anyone around Philly know the name of this fabled store and its address? P.s. Thanks to all the folks who replied to the " Wardrobe Unlock'd" request. -- Marsha Hamilton "She who dies with the most fabric, wins." ---------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Dec 1994 11:22:34 -0500 (EST) From: "K.C. Kozminski" Subject: Re: Ruffs and Peacocks The peacock-feather superstition is one I've heard for the Theatre also, I was told it was because the peacock had an "evil eye" on it. Green is thought to be an unlucky color for costumes because it is the "fairies" color, and they were thought to be a jealous lot. I'm suprised to hear the hat-on-the- bed jinx, I thought my mother made that one up! Has anyone heard bout the superstition of wearing your night-gown inside out if you accidently put it on that way? It's supposed to be bad luck to take it off and turn it once you already have it on. KC Don't think of it as aging, think of it as "Attaining Mythic Stature" kc/Roen who is, herself ---------------------------- From: "Lassman, Linda" Subject: ruffs Date: Wed, 07 Dec 94 09:22:00 PST >From: TheaG@AOL.COM >Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 21:10:33 -0500 >Message-Id: <941206211031_7471248@aol.com> >To: h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu >Subject: ruffs >OK, folks! How do you get a figure-8 shape when you make a ruff? > >Thea >TheaG@aol.com When I made a ruff a number of years ago, I tacked the top and bottom of each fold to my backing (grosgrain ribbon) and it worked beautifully; of course, it was also a very closely pleated ruff. I would think that tacking the sides of the 8 to each other and the "cross" at the centre would serve to hold it for a wider pleat. Isn't restoring the nice shaping to the figure-8 also what the goffering iron does when pressing the ruff after laundering? - Linda Lassman Winnipeg, Manitoba ---------------------------- From: annalea@its.com (Annalea Sommerville) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 94 15:08:16 -0600 Subject: Re: Queen E I book - price change Hi - I just spoke with someone at Lacis about the QE I book and I was quoted $215. Do you know something I don't know? :-) Annalea >From: KRISTEN@AppleLink.Apple.COM (Nichols, Kristen) >Subject: Re: Queen E I book >>I'd like to get a copy of Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd for >>Christmas. Does anyone know where I can get a new or used copy? >I bought my copy at Lacis in Berkeley. I called them today and it is >currently >selling for $115.00 and they will do mail order. You can reach them >at >1-510-843-7178. >K- ---------------------------- Date: Thu, 08 Dec 1994 15:18:10 CST From: donna parker Subject: dyes For those interested in historical methods of dyeing fabric, I recommend two books reprinted by Dover Publications. These books contain recipes, descriptions of dyes and mordants,methods of dyeing wool, cotton, linen and silk, directions for processing fibers and finishing techniques for cloth, etc. etc. Bemiss, Elijah. The Dyer's Companion (1815) - reprinted by Dover 1973. 2nd dyers manual printed in the United States. Bronson, J.& R. Early American Weaving and Dyeing: the Domestic Manufacturer's Assistant and FAmily Directory in the Arts of Weaving and Dyeing. (1826) reprinted by Dover 1977. --Concerning the difficulty in dyeing linen, Bemiss writes: "Cotton and linen dye is the best cold in general; for it is almost impossible with me to colour cotton and linen in hot dyes without spotting; for the cotton, &c. are of a cold deadly nature, and the steam of the dye has a bad effect on goods of this kind." Skimming though these books I found no reference to saffron used as a dye (possibly because it wasn't available commercially). Webster's does define saffron as used "formerly as a dyestuff." Donna ---------------------------- Date: 08 Dec 94 21:31 GMT From: KRISTEN@AppleLink.Apple.COM (Nichols, Kristen) Subject: Re2: Queen E I book - price ch >I'd like to get a copy of Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd for >Christmas. Does anyone know where I can get a new or used copy? >I bought my copy at Lacis in Berkeley. I called them today and it is >currently selling for $115.00 and they will do mail order. You can reach them >at 1-510-843-7178. >I just spoke with someone at Lacis about the QE I book and I was >quoted $215. Do you know something I don't know? :-) I just called Lacis again and now I was quoted $215.00. When I told her I was quoted $115.00 a week ago she told me "No you weren't". (Hmmmmm, makes me wonder if I have a memorable voice...I don't think so.) I then told her I bought my copy last year and although I couldn't remember the price I know I wouldn't have paid that much money for ANY book. She said the price had gone up since last year but it had been at $215.00 for a few months. So I have no idea what is going on. Possibly I got mis-quoted last week or possibly they raised their price for Christmas. It's hard to say. I do know I am sorry you can't get it for $115.00. Possibly try calling after Christmas, maybe the price will go down. Megan Dansie posted about Lacis around the same time I did. Megan, if you are reading this what price were you told? K- ---------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Dec 94 13:39:39 PST From: renpunk@prostar.com (Ren Punk) Subject: Saffron Does anyone have a source for saffron crocus bulbs. I may try growing them next year. Friends have 10 acres that are dying to be planted David S. McDOnald --- * Freddie 1.2.5 * Non est quis esse sed quid portare! ---------------------------- Date: Thu, 08 Dec 94 14:39:30 PST From: "cynthia" Subject: dyes >skimming though these books I found no reference to saffron used as a >dye (possibly because it wasn't available commercially). Webster's >does define saffron as used "formerly as a dyestuff." Donna, I think there are several reason why saffron is "formerly". Mostly it's expensive. Real saffron runs $400-800 an ounce (top end food grade) and like tumeric (a wonderful yellow) is light sensitive. On books: (from an old, old posting) Karen Walter's previous book citation with ISBN corrected and a little more info for ordering purposes. The author is a biochemist and a American Revolution War re-enactor. The recipes are easy to follow and for techies like mehe explains the chemistry behind the results. The bibliography is worth the price of the book. --cin _The Art and Craft of Natural Dyeing: Traditional Recipes for Modern Use_ by J.N. Liles, Knoxville: University of Tennessee Press, 293 Communications Bldg, Knoxville TN 37996-0325, 1990. Phone: 312.568.1550 or 800.621.2736 (orders only). ISBN 0.8704.96697 (hard) 0.8704.96700 (paper). Paperback copy costs US $25.00, hardback is US $39.95. ---------------------------- From: Connie_Frick@Douglas.BC.CA Subject: Number needed Date: Thu, 8 Dec 94 15:51:06 PST Hello, I apologize for using this list this way, but am deparately trying to find a phone number in the Crawley, West Sussex area. If you think you might be able to help, would you please e-mail me, I need a phone number from there. Thank you. Connie -- Connie Frick Connie_Frick@douglas.bc.ca Buyer, Douglas College ---------------------------- Date: 8 Dec 94 08:40:00 EST From: "Gina Balestracci" Subject: QE I Unlockd I bought my copy of QE I's Wardrobe Unlock'd at the V & A when I was in London last summer. The price that was (I think--I'm at work right now) actually printed on the flap of the dustjacket was #75 pounds. I know that's whht I paid for it. That trnaslates to about $115 at the rate of exchange in June. In my experience, Lacis does tend to have rather high prices on things, but they're things that are so hard to find that it's sometimes worth paying the price rather than taking the time to hunt elsewhere. It's a little bit late to do this for Christmas, but it might be worthwhile to special order the book from a regular bookstore--one that deals in art books or books on costume would probably be able to get it faster than a general-purpose bookstore. In my experience many non-specialist bookstores have trouble dealing with foreign and/or esoteric requests--and this is both! A museum store would be another place that might be able to get it quickly. gb ---------------------------- End of Volume 197 -----------------------