From: Gretchen Miller Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 12:51:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 200, 12/12/94 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 200, December 12, 1994 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: Sources for Saffron bulbs Review "Patterns of Fashion, 1560-1620" Saffron and preparing saffron for use Question and answers: Dark ages clothing, etc ISO "Little Colonel" brand clothing Spinning wheels Question and answer: Bomber jacket Knights and Armor television show Jane Austen's nipples ---------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 20:32:03 -1000 From: Jan McEwen Subject: Re: Saffron David asked: > Does anyone have a source for saffron crocus bulbs. I may try growing > them next year. Friends have 10 acres that are dying to be planted Nichols Garden Nursery has saffron crocus bulbs listed in their 1995 catalogue: 6/$4.75, 12/$8.75, 50/$32.50, 100/$58.50. Nichols also has an outstanding selection of various herb seeds and plants (but they won't ship plants to Hawaii...sigh). Their catalogue is free. Nichols Garden Nursery 1190 N Pacific Highway NE Albany OR 97321 Hope this helps. Jan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jan McEwen, Department of Horticulture, University of Hawaii SCA: Catriona Stewart, Barony of the Western Seas, Caid Internet: jmcewen@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu ---------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 23:04:32 -0800 From: Chris Laning To: h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Books by Janet Arnold To-HC@ Friday, December 9, 1994 p.1 Can anyone give a rundown of the rest of Janet Arnold's books (i.e. except for Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd)? UC Davis library only has three others, and two of them seem to be part of a series called "Patterns of Fashion." Those are the ones I'm interested in. They are very popular here and almost always out (there's only one copy of each) and since I am neither flesh nor fowl nor good red herring (i.e. neither faculty, staff nor student) I cannot put "holds" on books I want to see if they are out. A friend obliged me by asking for one of them, and I'll describe it here. Can anyone provide a list and descriptions of the others in the series? (I'm not even sure how many there are. This one says there were two previous books on women's clothing only, and that more books in the series are planned.) ------------------------------------------------------ _Patterns of Fashion: The cut and construction of clothes for men and women c1560-1620_ Copyright by Janet Arnold, 1985. First published by MacMillan London Ltd. ------------------------------------------------------ This is a large-format, but thin, book (128 pages, 11x14"). A short introduction on clothing, tailoring and patterns of the time is followed by detailed photos, discussion, detailed drawings of reconstructed garments, and flat patterns, presented on a grid, with extensive notes. All photos are black and white and most are very clear. The author says, "Few complete garments of any type survive from the sixteenth and early seventeenth centuries and almost all are fragile to the point of disintegration. . . .The garments described and illustrated in these pages do not give a representative survey of the fashions between c1560 and 1620 - - they are simply a large number of those still in existence dating from this period. . . These clothes are the work of the tailor; the work of the seamstress - - shirts, smocks, ruffs and other neckwear - - will appear in the next volume." Fifty-six garments are included: 14 men's doublets or jerkins, 7 complete suits (doublet and hose), 1 pair of venetians (breeches), 7 hats, 6 cloaks, 7 loose gowns or robes, 2 pairs of sleeves, 2 skirt foreparts, a kirtle (underdress worn under loose gown), a corset, 4 gowns, a petticoat, a woman's doublet, and 2 white linen women's jackets. All are from the nobility. About half are from before 1600 and half from 1600-1620. There are detailed notes on the materials used, construction methods, trim, embroidery and pinking (slashing). Photos include close-ups of lacing holes, hooks and eyes, buttons, points (ribbon ties), facings, stitching and so forth. Contemporary portraits and tomb effigies are presented for comparison. The amount of detail is amazing. Emphasis of the book is on detailed and exact description of the historical garments examined. This is not (on the face of it) a book on making modern copies or adaptations. But I would think an adventurous and experienced costumer could adapt most of the adult garments to a modern body of more or less average size. And the details and close-ups are fascinating and valuable, both as documentation ("I can SO use metal rings to reinforce holes, see it shows one RIGHT HERE!") and as hints or suggestions. (The ball-shaped "worked" buttons on long shanks look intriguing.) ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ ---------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 21:14:34 -1000 From: Jan McEwen Subject: Re: Amazon Drygoods, crocus On Fri, 9 Dec 1994, KAREN WALTER wrote: > The brand new catalog I got from Amazon Drygoods , How much is their new catalogue? I'm interested in getting one. > As to saffron, I think most large bulb-sellers offer it. Remember > it is a fall-blooming crocus. However, harvesting saffron does not just > mean picking the stamens -- they must be slowly roasted, and stirred > constanly. National Geographic had an article about saffron culture in > Spain a couple of years back that might be of interest to the prospective > saffron-grower. I've been doing some research into herbs and spices (for a class on culinary seasonings in the Middle Ages and Renaissance). If you only have a small amount, they can be simply spread on a sheet of paper and dried (at least according to _Rodale's Illustrated Encyclopedia of Herbs_). Jan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jan McEwen, Department of Horticulture, University of Hawaii SCA: Catriona Stewart, Barony of the Western Seas, Caid Internet: jmcewen@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu ---------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Dec 1994 09:31:20 +0000 (GMT) From: Sallie Rachel Goetsch Subject: saffron Saffron is quite inexpensive in countries like Greece (where it was used for dyeing at least as early as the 5th century BCE) and Tunisia; I have an archaeologist friend who digs at Lepti Minor and she always brings bags of saffron back. The advantage over turmeric (which is a perfectly acceptable substitute in cooking) is that it's colorfast to sun and water. ---------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Dec 94 07:18:00 EST From: deirdre@Cybernetics.NET (Charlene S- Noto) Subject: Re: Books by Janet Arnold At 11:04 PM 12/9/94 -0800, Chris Laning wrote: >To-HC@ Friday, December 9, 1994 p.1 > >Can anyone give a rundown of the rest of Janet Arnold's books (i.e. except for >Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd)? UC Davis library only has three >[snip] >------------------------------------------------------ >_Patterns of Fashion: The cut and construction of clothes for men and >women c1560-1620_ >Copyright by Janet Arnold, 1985. First published by MacMillan London Ltd. >------------------------------------------------------ >[snip] > The only one(s) I know are: _Patterns of Fashion 1: Englishwomen's Dresses and Their Construction c. 1660-1860_ _Patterns of Fashion 2: Englishwomen's Dress and Their Construction c. 1860-1940_ Also, along the same subject: _The Annotated Arnold_, Trump I have not read this but it sounded interesting. "Notes on each of the garments in Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620 by Janet Arnold. Reference guide for those attempting to construct those garments." [from Raiments catalog] The c.1560-1620 book indicates that there will be another one for Tudor era prior to the 1560 one, but I haven't seen it out yet. -Charlene =============================================================== Charlene Noto Internet: deirdre@cybernetics.net Compuserve: 75374,3154 --------------------------------------------------------------- SCA: Deirdre of Boolteens Vert On a Chevron Or, Three Butterlies Sable, In Chief Erminois =============================================================== ---------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Dec 1994 12:16:14 -0600 (CST) From: Mary M Spila Subject: Dyes This may sound odd, but... Why not dye a small sample of the linen with a tiny amount of saffron, to deturmine the shade, then try to reproduce it with other dyes? Either Chemical or natural. You will then have the color swatch to prove the validity of the color, but the overall cost of dying all of the fabric will be dependent on the cost of the other dyes. Just a suggestion - Mary SCA: Lady Marian O'Liam, Clann Kyle Real World: Mary Spila, Librarian - Tenessee Technological University ---------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Dec 1994 13:11:06 -0800 From: James Bootman Subject: dark ages We are home schoolers and in January will be starting a year long study of Europe after Rome, about 500-1200 AD. We will try to recreate food, clothing and crafts, music and literature, philosophy and science. Any pattern and cloth suggestions for clothes of this time? Historical accuracy is not absolutely necessary, its the feeling we are after. We have learned to spin wool with a drop spindles and have enough for a weaving about 6 inches square which I hope to inset somehow in something. shoes? we think we can do best if we concentrate on dressing up our three little girls 8, 5, 3 years old, our older girls 15 and 18 are also interested, our boys are poops, they refuse to dress up, but will eat anything we cook, I thought they might go for a robe of some sort, maybe monastic. I have enjoyed listening to your mail and am impressed at the wisdom out there, thank you, julienne bootman ---------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Dec 1994 15:46:14 CST From: donna parker Subject: "Little Colonel" clothing I've been trying to remember to post this query forever, but it always get shuffled to the bottom of the pile. Last May our museum opened an exhibit about Annie Fellows Johnston and her "Little Colonel" series of children's books, written late 19th/early 20th century. Some of you I'm sure are familiar with Shirley Temple's role in the 1935 movie version of the book. About the time the movie premiered,a company called Little Colonel Inc. licensed manufacturers to produce dresses, hats, coats, shoes, tooth brushes, pocketbooks, handkerchiefs, jewelry, dolls, toys, watches, clocks and games. We know Macy's had a LC line of clothing, Madame Alexander and Ideal both produced dolls. We found dolls, but no clothing. Inquiries to numerous museums yielded nothing. Has anyone on this list come across Little Colonel items? We wonder if any of these items were even manufactured in the thirties.Since we are only about a 100 miles from the town that Johnston based her book upon, we are interested in knowing how rare these items are, if in fact they exist. ---------------------------- Date: 11 Dec 94 03:37:18 EST From: Judy Heim <75300.713@compuserve.com> Subject: Who was looking for 16th cen. spinning wheel? I forwarded the message re: 16cen. spinning wheel to the KnitNet mailing list, where there are a lot of spinners. Here's a reply from someone who might be a good prospect to lend you a wheel and some good advice. Susan is *very* knowledgeable about spinning and textile history. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ---------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ------------------------ re. person who wants to borrow a spinning wheel: I can't sing! I could loan a wheel. I am not very anxious to teach a totally inexperienced singer to spin, however. Learning to spin on a wheel takes some level on interest and practice. I'm in Berkeley so am in the Bay Area. Susan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Susan Druding, Host TEXTILE ARTS FORUN -CF135 drudings@delphi.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Dec 1994 14:04:14 -0600 From: Paul A Sihvonen Binder Subject: Flying Jacket Question First, I wold like to apologize if this isn't an appropriate post but, I wasn't quite sure where to post this question and this forum was suggested to me. Recently I bought what I belive to be a rather old "Bomber" style leather jacket. I am trying to find out a bit about it as the person who sold it to me had no idea where it had come from etc. The jacket is brown leather, fleece lined with 2 pockets,fleece lined, on the front, a strap at the collar and two adjustment straps on the rear sides and a zippers at the cufs. The only writing I can find in the jacket is a tag with "Extra Large, MK VI Flying Jacket, 100% Sheepskin, Leather Bindings, Cleaning Instructions - Dry Clean Only, Kiffe Products Inc., RN 32013". I am trying to find out a) How old might this jacket be? and b) Which if any Air Force issued this jacket and to who. Thank you Paul A Sihvonen - "I've seen too much of what fighting 302 Norris Court Binder has done. I've seen too much anger. Number 2 U.W. Milwaukee I've seen it far too young, and talk Madison, Wi. 53703 M.L.I.S. Program will come to nothing, while the shouting still goes on." Big Country {Snail mail} ---------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Dec 94 12:26:56 PST From: renpunk@prostar.com (Ren Punk) Subject: Saffron t> The advantage over turmeric (which is a perfectly acceptable t> substitute in cooking) is that it's colorfast to sun and water. Perfectly acceptable if you have no sense of taste. People have been trying to duplicate the delicate flavours of Saffron for centuries and although Tumeric is a widely used substitute it is no where near "acceptable", unless your going for colour and not flavour. David S. McDonald --- * Freddie 1.2.5 * Non est quis esse sed quid portare! ---------------------------- From: DLTR@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Dec 1994 20:55:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Flying Jacket Question It sounds like you have a US fighter pilot jacket. Bear in mind that the Air Force as an independent entitiy did not exist until the end of WWII. Initialy they were the Army Air Forces. You may have a reproduction. Things manufactured for the armed forces generaly have a label stating that or bearing a very "military-speak" description of the garment. eg "jacket; leather; fleece-lined; men's large". The jackets were worn because of the altitude at which the bombers flew. It was extremely cold and there was no heat, hence the heavy fleece lined jackets. Hope this helps. Diana Life is a banquet! ---------------------------- From: DLTR@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Dec 1994 21:07:38 -0500 Subject: Bomber Jacket The Air Force did not come into existance as a separate entity until the late 1940's. Originally they wer "the Army Air Forces". the jacket you describe was worn by bomber pilots in WWII. A slightly shorter version was worn in WWI. There was no heat in the aircraft and at high altitudes it is extremely cold. (Friends of mine who are military pilots still wear a similar jacket but is a heavy grade synthetic shell like gortex, has pockets in the sleeves too, and has a fiberfil middle) You may have a copy or reproduction (they are plentiful). As a general rule of thumb, garments made for the military usuallly bear a label to that effect. It will have a code number for that garment or a "military speak" description of the garment e.g. "jacket; leather,men's;large" I hope this helps Diana Life is a banquet! ---------------------------- From: DLTR@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Dec 1994 21:18:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Bomber Jacket Sorry about the duplication. My system went haywire and I thought the origianl message had not gotten sent. OOPS! Diana Life is a banquet! ---------------------------- From: TheaG@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Dec 1994 21:45:52 -0500 Subject: QEWU price A friend of mine recently (month ago?) ordered a copy of Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd for about $140 from: History Inc. (James Keith) 3100 Franor Ave Alton IL 62002-2933 (618) 462-3336 I believe I have also heard recently that Amazon has this book, too? Thea TheaG@aol.com ---------------------------- From: Chethur@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Dec 1994 22:16:19 -0500 Subject: Knights & Armor Sun. 9:12 CST I just saw an A & E show that might be of interest to others on this list. It was called Knights & Armor. It will be shown again from 11pm to 1 am on A &E in Central Time Zone. I'm not sure if that is the same time in other areas of the country. The program, was described as about William Marshall, but it in fact was a lengthy discussion of armor, and traditions surrounding knights, and the Knights of the Garter. ETC If you can't watch it, the video can be ordered for $29.95 +S &H 1-800-423-1212 There was fairly precise discussion of changes in style and manufacture as well as castles, crusades, etc. As as historian I found it well done, and accurate, and I learned from it. This seems to have been a British Production. Lots of great costume was shown. Cheryl Thurber Union Univ. chethur@aol.com ---------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Dec 1994 20:34:47 +0800 (WST) From: Anne Casey Subject: Re: Jane Austen's nipples I'd go with Janet Arnold's nipple level if you're making a ball gown - ostt of the drawings and costumes I've seen (some of which they even let me touch!) from that period were very high busted - after all, bust lines, like waist lines, are fixed by fashion not Nature. The only dresses I have seen which varied were the 'round gowns', which frankly look a lot more comfortable, although not as cute. Last century, someone was quoted as saying that Australia should be called the "land of the high busted women" (this comes from a history of Australian costume book that I no longer have) - so I think that while a high bust was the ideal, the reality varied according to the function of the garment, and if the wearer could be bothered. /anne...... ---------------------------- From: Jennifer Bray Date: Mon, 12 Dec 94 13:07:58 GMT Subject: Re: dark ages 'fraid I only know about Northern Europe: British Isles, Scandinavia & bit of France & Germany, but I'll do my best to do an easy version of the costume for you A fairly simple tunic pattern goes like this: --------------------------- --------------------------- | | \____/ | SLEEVES cut 2 | | | | fold at top | ------------------| |------------------ \_ | | _/ \| BODY cut 2 |/ <- UNDERARM GUSSETS | & seam at shoulders | cut 2 squares & fold | OR cut 1 & fold at | into triangles | shoulders | /| |\ / | | \ / | | \ <- side gussets cut 4 / | | \ these are made from 2 / | | \ rectangles which are / | | \ each cut in 1/2 on the /_ | | _\diagonal \_ | | _/ \_ | | _/ \------------------------/ _ / The _/ lines are meant to be diagonal but / came out at the wrong angle so I had to type wobbly diagonals! Everything is cut of rectangles or triangles, so it's an easy pattern. Make this sort of pattern long for a late Saxon girl or knee length for a late Saxon or viking boy, (say 9th-10th century) for earlier periods (say 4th to 8th century) make the tunic hip length & leave out the gussets at the bottom (you don't need them on a shorter tunic). For an earlier saxon girl (4th to 8th centuries) make a big tube of cloth climb in and pin it at both shoulders with brooches. It's like the ancient greek peplos if you've come across that at all. Square cloaks & rectangular were popular throughout dark age Europe the men & boys wore them folded at one side of the body & pinned at the other shoulder it's kind of difficult to describe, but if you can find a picture of the Bayeux tapestry you can see the Normans & Saxons wearing them. Women may have worn a similar cloak but folded diagonally & worn as a shawl with a large pin or a brooch at the centre front. Late Saxon women seem to have had a thing about covering up their hair and wrapped fine cloth around their heads, its seems to have been something to do with St Paul's teachings & women thinking it immodest to display too much hair. You could use your drop spinning to weave a belt, or a small pouch. If you fancy experimenting with the natural dyes used in dark age Europe you could make some braid to trim the neck or cuffs of the clothing. How old are the boys? If they're young enough & you don't feel it would teach them bad habits you might get them more involved by offering to dress them as dark age warriors. Even grown men are suckers for dressing up that involves mail, swords & axes! & after all the dark ages were a time when there was a lot of fighting as various groups tried to take over where Rome had left off. (Not that the Roman empire itself was exactly peaceful either). If you want detailed instructions on 10th century costume I've got a booklet I did for a re-enactment group which I'll snail mail for a couple of IRCs. email me if you want a copy & we can sort something out. (I'd love to discuss crafts cookery, science & suchlike with you aswell but that's probably off topic for this list) Jennifer ---------------------------- End of Volume 200 -----------------------