From: Gretchen Miller Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 18:48:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 212, 1/20/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 212, January 20, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: Question: Modern irons vs flat irons ISO Roccoco wig in Toronto area 19C man's wallet pattern Beaded capelet Textile related books for sale Costumes in Brother Cadfael Costumes in Little Women Costuming workshops at Colonial Williamsburg Janet Arnold's Underwear book ISO Name of new book in "Danske Dragter" series Bath Costume Museum souvenir book Costumers Guild names Legends of the Fall --------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 10:01:19 -0600 (CST) From: Deb Subject: modern irons? >Linen also wrinkles a lot and there is no way to prevent this. It gets >increasingly shiny with pressing. If you don't like this you need to always >press it on the wrong side. >Fran Grimble Excerpted from a discussion on linen. I'm wondering if modern day irons differ in any way IN THE EFFECT THEY PRODUCE from what our fore-mothers had? --------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 13:21:50 -0500 (EST) From: pursel darlene elizabeth 673761TP1 Subject: wigs I wanted to know if anyone can tell me where to find a Rococo era wig in the southern Ontario region (Canada), preferably near Toronto. Thank-you. Darlene Pursel --------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 10:57:14 PST From: "cynthia" Subject: men's mid 19th century wallets >I am looking for a pattern, image or book describing men's wallets during the >mid 19th century. Any help would be appreciated! Paul, There is a book called something on the order of _Needlework Projects from Godey's Lady's Book_. (My xeroxes are not here at work.) It's probably out of print; the local library has the only copy I've ever seen. Anyway, there is a "latch key pocket", a coin purse and a photograph case. They're usually embroidered silk or stamped (or painted) leather glued over pasteboard then whipstitched together. The illustrations will give details. While I dont recall anything for folding money, this would certainly give you some ideas. --cin Cynthia@caere.com --------------------------- From: Catherine.Keegan@ncal.kaiperm.org Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 11:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 208, 1/ First off, Gretchen, it's nice to see the h-costume digest again. I was feeling kinda cut off from my 'fix'. Re: the beaded capelet with the cotehardie seen at Western 12th Night...while the combination is not historically accurate (but, the SCA seldom worries about this by and large...I can say that, I've been active for a loooonnnnggg time and the OL in costuming helps, too ;-) ) the effect was pretty. If you really want to make it, try the patterns in Kohler. I know several people who have made this up and it looks splendid. It would also look lovely with several of the 'Germans' that you already have. Keegan/Ceridwen MacAoudhegain --------------------------- From: Catherine.Keegan@ncal.kaiperm.org Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 11:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: (fwd) TEXTILE RELATED BOOKS FOR FYI. Keegan --------------------------( Forwarded letter 1 follows )--------------------- >Date: Friday, 13 January 1995 6:17pm >From: keegan@netcom.com (Tim Bray/C. Keegan) >Subject: (fwd) TEXTILE RELATED BOOKS FOR SALE >To: syscxk@ncal.kaiperm.org >Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) >Newsgroups: rec.crafts.textiles.misc Kenneth Starosciak Art Books has made available our inventory lists of out of print books in the anonymous ftp ftp.netcom.com under our directory /pub/ar/artbooks. We specialize in art, architecture, and decorative and textile arts. We are members of the Antiquarian Booksellers Association. Feel free to download any of our catalogues or email us at artbooks@netcom.com. Lists on the anonymous ftp: amerart1.txt decarts1,txt costum01txt rugs01.txt amerart2.txt euroart1.txt lace01.txt tapest01.txt archit01.txt photog01.txt needle01.txt textil01.txt archit02.txt basket01.txt quilts01.txt weaves01.txt Ordering instructions follow each file. --------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 12:03:20 -0800 From: Alison Kondo Subject: Bro Cadfael I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the costumes, but the production was filmed in Hungary & I wonder if they used local seamstresses & materials, which may have accounted for the difference between the costume standards of this & other BBC productions. (I remember reading a book on the "Dune" mo9vie describing how they had major customs trouble getting equipment & props into Mexico to film & wondered if similar circumstances might exist betwwen England & Hungary). I was a bit disappointed in the costumes, but at least they wern't "Hollywoody"-I expect an American production would probably have had the child bride in something skin tight with deep decolletage. Alison --------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 19:14:02 -0600 From: rebecca mioak chung Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 206, 1/5/95 About the Little Women costumes: The December Harper's Bazaar reports that: the costume designer for the film, Colleen Atwood, used dresses from the period, or put together new ones out of old fabrics. --------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 20:36:30 -0600 From: rebecca mioak chung Subject: Little Women Film December's Harpers Bazaar writes: "The costume designer for the film, Colleen Atwood, used dresses from the period, or put together new ones out of old fabrics. [Winona] Ryder appreciated the lived-in quality of the costumes, remembering without fondess the 'corsets and Lycra" of Bram Stoker's Dracula." --------------------------- From: TWOSEW@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 21:34:23 -0500 Subject: Colonial Williamsburg Workshops Colonial Wmbgs. Discovery Days, Feb. 21st-27th(Everyday) 10am til 4:30pm. Head To Toe Free to holders of Patriots Pass($30.00 per year) Call 1-800-HISTORY Subjects: Making and wearing mans hat Making a queue Making stays. Shoes of the day A day making childrens attire at the Milliners Shop Day in-side costume back-room Great place for fact-finding 18c information Special prices on accomadations. Went last year and recieved so..... much information. All workshops are conducted by staff of Colonial Wmbgs. Your most humble servent, Nancy Marx twosew@aol.com. --------------------------- From: BILLinMN@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 22:47:38 -0500 Subject: Re: men's mid 19th century wa... Hi Paul- Are you looking for something different than the typical leather wallet with the tuck-in leather tab sold by Jarnigan's and by sutler's at many events? I can show you a picture of the Jarnigan's one if that's what you want... Bill Nelson --------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 20:52:35 PST From: aterry@Teknowledge.COM (Allan Terry) Subject: Two answers and a question Re men's wallets: _Bags and Purses_ by Vanda Foster, published by Batsford in 1982, contains some information. Re Janet Arnold's forthcoming books: The other books in the _Patterns of Fashion_ series are published by Macmillan in England and Drama Book Publishers in New York, if anyone wants to inquire about pub dates. Since every costumer and costume historian seems keenly interested in these books, I'm sure there will be announcements and reviews all over once they are published. I have two books in the _Danske Dragter_ series: _Moden 1790-1840_, by Ellen Anderson, and _Moden 1840-1890_, by Viben Bech. I read in a bibliography that there is another book in the series covering pre-1790 styles. Has anyone on this list seen it? I'd like to know if it contains scale patterns like the other books. I don't read Danish, so the history-of-costume part of these books is useless to me except for the pictures. Also, where can I buy the book? I asked the Stanford University bookstore to order it, but they are somewhat intimidated by ordering from Denmark. Fran Grimble --------------------------- From: Mrs C S Yeldham Date: 17 Jan 95 11:36:00 GMT Subject: RE: Brother Cadfael Interesting that it had been shot in Hungary, although that shouldn't affect production values (indeed, it should help because of the cheapness over there). I suspect 'Birtism' also had an effect. This, for the Americans on the list, is a reorganisation of the BBC put in place by the relatively new Director General, Mr Birt. He has apparently turned a 'quality' ethos into a 'money' ethos, and is getting rid of as much in house expertise as he can, farming out functions to external companies, and introduced much more financial accountability. This is not popular amongst the old hands at the BBC, and people are watching to see if it affects quality - which is why 'Middlemarch', the recent Dickens and the two Jane Austen productions due out this year are so important. To give an idea of the effects, the BBC has just sacked all its costumiers - not the designers, the makers and fitters etc. This will now be farmed out to new companies. Whatever the cause, I suspect the BBC saw 'Cadfael' as a sure-fire bet. Best selling novels, murder mystery, 'heritage' values and a leading actor. They seem to have got it wrong, it just never took off, over here at any rate. The things that annoyed me were the architecture - the rough-hewn school of 'medieval', not a bright colour or hanging anywhere. (I am open to correction here, it is a while since I saw the programmes). The other thing that turned me off came straight from the books. The view-points expressed were thoroughly unmedieval, especially for the early 13th century. For example, Romantic Love had only just been invented, in Aquitaine at the Courts of Love. People might have behaved like that, but were/would have been regarded as, literally, mad. 'Love' in the sense we mean it, was not a good reason for doing anything! This would be particularly true of love between adolescents. Average age of marriage for most people (excluding aristocrats) was mid-20s - an 18 year old should be thinking about getting a trade and making a place in the world. Thats one reason why apprentices were such a problem in towns - they were almost grown men, who couldn't marry yet. The question that puzzled me was why I could read the books quite happily, knowing this (until I got bored with her formula) but in the TV series it stuck out like a sore thumb! The other problem was more to do with the scripts I think. Ellis Peters has deliberately set her stories at a specific time of unrest, of civil war and this is reflected in the books - instability, violence etc. The TV series seemed to be set in a 'Merrie Englande' world. Enough complaints! Queen Margot seems to be getting good reviews and I hope to see it soon. There is also another French film on release called 'Nostradamus' which is much more sub fusc! Caroline --------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 10:05:11 -0500 (EST) From: hoh jennifer l Subject: Re: Colonial Williamsburg Workshops I'd also point out that there are a few of us who are locals in the Wmsbg area and there is a fairly active SCA College here, so if your housing standards aren't too high (this is a college, after all!) you might find crash space and save some $$$. Jennifer Hoh On Mon, 16 Jan 1995 TWOSEW@aol.com wrote: > Colonial Wmbgs. Discovery Days, Feb. 21st-27th(Everyday) 10am til 4:30pm. > Head To Toe > Free to holders of Patriots Pass($30.00 per year) > Call 1-800-HISTORY > Subjects: > Making and wearing mans hat > Making a queue > Making stays. > Shoes of the day > A day making childrens attire at the Milliners Shop > Day in-side costume back-room > Great place for fact-finding 18c information > Special prices on accomadations. > > Went last year and recieved so..... much information > All workshops are conducted by staff of Colonial Wmbgs. > > Your most humble servent, > Nancy Marx > twosew@aol.com. > --------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 07:42:48 -0800 (PST) From: Gwen Carnegi Subject: Re: Beaded Caplet at 12th Night Catherine,Thank you very much for the reply. I did some "book diving" here at home and found two vague sources for the caplet. One is in Kohler (pg 214) and could be taken as an under garment with the hoppelande or as a caplet. I have such a hard time with redrawings! The other is from the painted ceiling in the Hall of Justice in Granada. I found one caplet that button up the front and it was worn over a coathardie but alas, it was being worn by a man. Both of these garments are dated mid-14th cent. Spanish. I'll have to dig some more. The caplet was really beautiful. It seems like such as practical solution to the lower neckline vs. cold dilemma. The gollars that you mentioned are quite warm. Thanks again. Gwyn Carnegie gcarnegi@netcom.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "All women are crazy and all men are stupid. Once you resign yourself to the idea, the entire realm of human relations becomes much more understandable." -Katie Marmor ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 16 Jan 1995 Catherine.Keegan@ncal.kaiperm.org wrote: > Re: the beaded capelet with the cotehardie seen at Western 12th Night...while > the combination is not historically accurate (but, the SCA seldom > worries about this by and large...I can say that, I've been active for a > loooonnnnggg time and the OL in costuming helps, too ;-) ) the effect was > pretty. If you really want to make it, try the patterns in Kohler. I know > several people who have made this up and it looks splendid. It would also > look lovely with several of the 'Germans' that you already have. > > Keegan/Ceridwen MacAoudhegain > --------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 10:06:22 -0600 (CST) From: Deb Subject: Bath Museum of Costume souvenir book Last fall, I chatted with someone about stomachers, and someone else about "spring shaped" bustles. I've just now discovered where I saw (a) a brilliant yellow silk embroidered stomacher (1740) and (b) the spring bustle (1880-1885): to whit, in my souvenir book from the Museum of Costume in Bath, England. The title is just "Museum of Costume". It's a 40 page, lavishly illustrated paperback in 8x12" format. Photos of garments from 1620 through current (well, 1963). (More older than newer, thank goodness). Photos of undergarments and gloves & purses & shoes, too. My version is copyright 1980, reprinted 1984, and acquired in 1987 at the museum gift shop. Any current version is bound to be equally scrumptious! ISBN 0 901303 10 0 The booklet states that "a complete list with prices and order form is available on request" of their museum shop items. A later paragraph says "Enquireies may be made in person, by telephone or in writing to the Keeper of Costume 4 Circus Bath, Avon BA1 2EW [England, UK] -- my addition Telephone 0225-61111, ext 425 P.S. If anybody orders one, and finds a different publication date than mine, please let me know. I'd love to order a new one! --------------------------- From: JPMcTeer@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 11:34:13 -0500 Subject: Names of organizations Having mostly lurked on this list for a few months and realizing the broad spectrum of backgrounds and interests represented here, I have a general request. I am co-chair of a group that is considering changing its name, but we don't want to be confused with other existing groups. The group is presently called the Minnesota Guild of Costume Professionals, but most people commonly refer to it as the Costume Guild. We are primarily theatrical costume designers working in theatres full-time and freelance. Some of our members work on films and others teach historical costume and theatrical costume design. Please send me a direct response if you know of any groups with similar names and what their membership includes. Thank you to you all from Joan P. McTeer JPMcTeer@aol.com --------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 12:30:40 -0500 (EST) From: Elizabeth McMahon Subject: Re: Beaded Caplet at 12th Night On Tue, 17 Jan 1995, Gwen Carnegi wrote: > The other is from the painted ceiling in the Hall of Justice in Granada. > I found one caplet that button up the front and it was worn over a > coathardie but alas, it was being worn by a man. Both of these garments > are dated mid-14th cent. Spanish. > > I'll have to dig some more. The caplet was really beautiful. It seems > like such as practical solution to the lower neckline vs. cold dilemma. > The gollars that you mentioned are quite warm. As I was not at West Kingdom 12th Night, (nor was anyone who looked like me ;*) er, that I know of...) I just skimmed your earlier mail, but at this point I think I've picked up enough clues to make a suggestion. Perhaps the woman wearing the capelet was interpreting a drawing of a hood with a deep collar as being just a cape. This was a garment worn extensively by all classes from the 13th century into the 15th, and for upper class peopel, would likely have been heavily trimmed or embellished, particulary with things like heraldic embroideries (oh, we love escutcheons...easy to finish cause they're small!), dagging, buttons (one of the hot fashion items of the 14th C.) and bells. They are the very thing to keep the chill off a wide cote-hardied neck line. Very small Ice age! There are lots and lots of pictures of these. Write back if you can't find any, and I'll fill in more details from home. (Actually my husband was at a revel in the West last weekend. He looks just like Fast Eddie, only shorter ;*) -*-*- Beth in the office 212-741-4400 --------------------------- From: "Lassman, Linda" Subject: Movie - Legends of the Fall Date: Tue, 17 Jan 95 11:26:00 PST Has anyone seen the movie "Legends of the Fall" yet, and if so do you have any comments on the costumes? I haven't had a chance to see it yet, although I've seen numerous trailers. It looks good to me, but's not a historical period I'm familiar with, and I'm very curious about how accurate the costumes and other details are. The production company decided not to film in Winnipeg because the trees in the area they were considering weren't accurate for Montana at the turn of the century and the city refused to cut them all down. Because of that, I just wondered how devoted to accuracy they were in other areas. - Linda Lassman Winnipeg, Manitoba ---------------------------- End of Volume 212 -----------------------