From: Gretchen Miller Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 18:20:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 215, 1/30/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 215, January 30, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: Various experiences with Past Patterns mail order Patterns for basic Cavalier Brother Cadfael Mail order and patterns Handling mail order disputes Upcoming historical dance events, SF Bay area ---------------------------- From: close@lunch.engr.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Bad Experience with Past Patterns Company Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 11:28:27 -0800 (PST) Normally I order my historic costuming patterns through third party companies like Raiments and Amazon Dry Goods. I've found Raiments to be curt but efficient in their order taking and filling, and while they charge a surcharge for credit card orders they've never charged me until they've shipped the order. They keep most of their patterns in stock, too, so they tend to be quicker than some of the other third party pattern houses. Amazon Dry Goods can be a bit clueless at times :-), and they can take a long time to fill an order, but they too have never charged me for anything that hasn't shipped, and they're usually quick when checking on an order's progress. When I decided to try some Past Patterns historic patterns recently, I decided to order directly from Past Patterns rather than through a third party house. I decided to do so based on reading the notes from Fran Grimble and others who've posted to this list recommending ordering directly from the pattern manufacturers. Unfortunately, my experience ordering directly from Past Patterns has been an unpleasant one, and if my recent experience is an example of what it's like to order directly from the manufacturer, then I can't recommend others doing it too! Here's what happened: On December 12, 1994, I ordered, over the telephone, three patterns from the Past Patterns company of Grand Rapids, Michigan. I did not have a catalog, so I ordered the patterns by name and when the charges seems usually high at the end of my order ($37 for three waists), I asked for a breakdown of the charges. "Travis", the order taker, claimed that he wasn't able to do so as he couldn't get back to that computer screen now. That didn't make me very happy, but I decided I'd wait to see the bill and then dispute any incorrect charges then. I charged the order to my credit card and asked that if the patterns were not in stock that I not be charged until the patterns shipped. On December 20 I received my charge card statement showing that I had been charged the full amount for those patterns on December 14th. I assumed, then, that the order had been filled and I would be receiving it shortly. Based on estimates of shipping times, I expected to receive my order by December 27th, 1994. When I had not received the patterns by December 30th, I phoned Past Patterns to find out what had happened. I left a message on their answering machine, and Travis phoned me back. He stated that the delay was due to my order "needing printing" and that he had no idea when this would be completed, but it should be completed within 30 days of my first ordering. I asked him why they had already charged me knowing that they couldn't provide the merchandise I had ordered, and he just said it was "policy". I told him that I did not like that policy, that I had specifically asked not to be charged until the order had shipped, and that if they couldn't fill my order by January 10th then I would like a full refund. When I didn't receive the order by January 11, I contacted Michelle Lee, who works for Past Patterns as a researcher and is a member of this mailing list, and explained my problem of not receiving what I ordered and asked for her help. She FAXed Past Patterns' owner, Saundra Altman a copy of my letter and also talked to Saundra directly about the problem. She said Saundra would be contacting me shortly. I also called Past Patterns and left a message asking for a full refund and cancelling my order. I still hadn't heard anything a week later, and my credit card company hadn't received a refund, so I touched bases with Michelle again but she hadn't heard anything further either. I called Past Patterns, AGAIN, and this time was finally able to talk directly to Saundra Altman (the company's owner). She said my order had been shipped on the 20th and that I should be receiving it shortly. She apologized for my troubles, but she didn't seem very concerned nor did she seem to take it very seriously. She told me I should've told Travis not to charge my account until the order had been shipped. Well DUH! That's exactly what I did do and it didn't make any difference at all. When I relayed that fact to her, and the fact that I had called them long distance four times to check on the order, she launched into a canned "how wonderful Travis is" speech and told me I could always FAX my order in to avoid problems like this. Sorry, but after this treatment and the lack of seriousness paid to the problems I won't be ordering from them again. I'd like to publicly thank Michelle Lee for all she tried to do on my behalf. (It was really nice of you to volunteer to help!) If anyone else has any ideas on what went wrong, or whether this is typical of this company please do post. Am I expecting too much when I expect them to have professional business standards and attitudes, or are these places really just a hobby first for these folks and a business second? I'm always taken aback when I encounter anyone who is laissez-faire about mail order and credit card rules and yet they appear to be running a business! It's my money they're around with and I take my money seriously. -- Diane Close close@lunch.engr.sgi.com I'm at lunch today. :-) Disclaimer: I don't even work for SGI! ---------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 18:56:04 -0800 (PST) From: "Sarah E. Goodman" Subject: Re: Looking for patterns > For simple instructions, the Renfaire book, > "Elizabethan Costume 1550-1580" by Schultz & Winter > might help. I've also seen a commercial "halloween" > pattern by either Butterick, McCalls, or Simplicity > which has simple versions of Tudor & Elizabethan > for men & women. It might give you basic shapes to > work from. Go with the book. The commercial patterns do not really have the basic shapes at all right. (If you can't get the book through Rainments or a local source, e-mail me and I'll give you the publisher's phone number. {It's self-published and Winter is the mother of my [step]kids.}) > Rainments (POB 93095, Pasadena, CA 91109) > has a catalogue of historic patterns & books > which may be useful. Their catalogue is $5. 2nd the suggestion (and I don't work for them either, although they are friends of mine). They sell is at least one Elizabethan jerkin/doublet pattern they have that makes up fast and easy and is reasonably within period lines, and is a full-sized paper pattern. (I'd give you more information, but I don't have the energy to cope with the mess in my sewing room, under some of which the various pattern peices are.) If you really want authentic, go with Arnold or Waugh. ---------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 19:18:59 -0800 (PST) From: "Sarah E. Goodman" Subject: Re: Monk's Hood > But did anyone else notice that in his workshop, Brother Cadfeal had > pinched the carpenter's workbench. The view in this episode cleary shows > it, right down to the wood vise and holes for the bench dogs (little > holders for wood), and the tray for the chisels. Actually if one ignores > those details it does sort of look right. Actually, pinching the carpenter's bench to make his workshop a bit more comfortably is exactly the kind of thing I can see "my" Cadfael (the one from the books - I haven't yet decided if Jacobi comes close enough for them to merge in my mind) doing. ****************************************************************** I am the mother of all things, and all things must wear a sweater! ****************************************************************** Sarah E. Goodman goodston@well.sf.ca.us Senior Designer and Chief Cat Herder goodston@netcom.com Wee Cottage Daly City, California, USA ****************************************************************** ---------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 20:13:03 PST From: aterry@Teknowledge.COM (Allan Terry) Subject: Mail ordering I read with interest Diane's post on ordering from Past Patterns. On the one hand, I fully agree that I (and I think most people) am concerned about what happens to my money. When I mail order, I expect prompt and efficient service. On the other hand, Past Patterns (if I read the message right) shipped the patterns in about a month. Which is about as much as you can expect from any mail-order company. I've received less efficient service from some much more "professional" businesses. (Most recently I had a memorable experience with the Boston Museum of Fine Arts museum shop. They took months to send a vest made of reproduction baroque silk and when I received it the "unisex small" size had a 44" chest!) I agree Past Patterns should not have answered complaints by telling Diane how wonderful their employee is. I don't think Amazon or Raiments are any faster than the manufacturers--they keep small stocks and back order a lot which takes time. Also, their prices are higher for almost everytihng--for patterns, several dollars more per pattern. And one time I ordered a pair of shoes from Amazon. They sent me a pair several sizes smaller than requested. When I called they said they knew the shoes were too small (I ordered several pairs, and the others were the right size) but had them on hand so they sent them anyway. AND they made me pay shipping for the return! I always check whether patterns are listed with Raiments and/or Amazon. Some manufacturers list them months in advance and some patterns they list (and collect money for) are never printed. (Past Patterns used to be really bad about this but they've improved.) But if the pattern is also listed by Amazon and/or Raiments there's a better chance it really exists. (A similar company is Harper House, and their markups are lower than Amazon's.) Then I order from the manufacturer because it's always cheaper. If I don't have the manufacturer's catalog (Past Patterns' set of catalogs costs a lot more than Amazon's pattern catalog), I pay the Amazon price and get a refund. I always send orders by mail to leave a "paper trail" if there's a problem. Speaking of which--in June I ordered several books of Victorian fashion picture reprints from a place called Fabric Fancies in Reno. They advertised these books in a "country" magazine where an article of mine was printed. The implication was that the books were their publications and already printed. First they told me the books would not be printed till the end of September. Since then they have not answered several letters requesting either the books or a refund. I'm about to report them for mail fraud. This is why I like to leave a paper trail--when you fill out the psotal service form they want an exact account of order dates, letters you've sent, etc. Another strategy is to get help from someone you know who is connected with the company (as Diane did). As a last resort, contact the ad sales departments of magazines where the business advertises. Magazines do not want to aid mail fraud and will sometimes pressure the company very effectively. This is the only way I could get a $130 refund out of Medieval Miscellanea, after a year of trying. Mail order can be risky. But it's not too bad if you already know the company. And it's often the only (or the least expensive) way to get esoteric costuming supplies. Fran Grimble P. S. In my experience another company to avoid doing business with is the vintage clothing show/antiques show organizer Nadia's Vintage Promotions in Flourtown, Pennsylvania. ---------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 08:08:05 -0600 (CST) From: Elizabeth Coffey Subject: Re: Experience with Past Patterns Company I have worked with Saundra Altman and the Past Patterns Company for several years. I have ordered patterns directly from her for personal use and also while I was manager of a museum gift shop. Additionaly I have attended several of Saundra's workshops. In fact Saundra has been a guest in my home on seveal occasions. It is unfortunate what happened to Diane Close's order. While I will not dispute the delay and frustration resulting from the problems placing and receiving the order, I would like to publically state that in 8 years of working with Past Patterns, I have not ever ran into any situation like this. ---------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 10:06:08 -0500 (EST) From: "Jim O'Connor" Subject: Re: Bad Experience with Past Patterns Company On Tue, 24 Jan 1995, Diane Barlow Close wrote: > If anyone else has any ideas on what went > wrong, or whether this is typical of this company please do post. Am I > expecting too much when I expect them to have professional business > standards and attitudes, or are these places really just a hobby first for > these folks and a business second? I'm always taken aback when I > encounter anyone who is laissez-faire about mail order and credit card > rules and yet they appear to be running a business! It's my money they're > around with and I take my money seriously. > Good diagnosis! Like all endeavors it always works best if you know the rules and the right buttons to push. There is nothing wrong with mail order and if you use it often enough things will go wrong. However there are a few simple steps to help prevent problems and also cure them when they happen. I find it is best to order by snail mail first, fax second and phone last, for the simple reason that written instructions reduce the chance of a wrong item, size, color, address etc... The one exception is if you do not know if the merchant accepts credit cards, then call and first ask them if they do. If they don't accept credit cards (any of the major ones) I thank them and HANG-UP. Only if they have something truly unique I may still buy from them, with the full knowledge that there is a HIGH chance of trouble. You want to know if the merchant accepts credit cards, even if you don't have a credit card!!! You have tremendous (albeit somewhat hidden) clout when you use a credit card to buy by mail order. A merchant who can't take credit cards is either very small and/or very new (which can cause problems) or has already run afoul of the clout wielded by the banks. Afterwards when you receive your statement, check all the charges. If you have been charged for something that you have NOT received. Right then and there write a letter to your bank explaining that. You are putting that charge 'in dispute'. This MUST be a snail-mail letter, resist the temptation to phone or fax the bank, the rules state that they can ignore phone messages but MUST take action on a letter. What you will be doing is very powerful and can create huge problems for the merchant so two pre-cautions. First of all some small merchants may charge your order an another merchants account e.g. you buy from Mary's Fabrics but the charge is from Harry's Tires. Nowadays this is expressly forbidden but may still happen. If the amount is the same and the date is close to when you placed the order and Mary's charge never appears that is what happened; don't dispute if everything else is fine or if the merchant corrects any problems quickly and couteously. Second, if the merchant supplies a truly unique product or service, you may wish not to dispute, because your dispute could truly be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Here's what happens, when they get your letter your bank will electronically 'charge-back' the merchants bank. The merchant's bank will notify the merchant and ask for proof of shipment (by the way charging before shipping is also a verboten practice for the merchant.) If they cannot prove that they shipped they will be directly 'charged-back' i.e. the money will be removed from their account, that makes 'em focus on the problem. Furthermore and this is why the second pre-caution above, if they have a history of such charge-backs the bank may cancel their merchant account (the banks rate them based on the number of charge-backs relative to their volume, also mail order companies are held to a much higher standard.) If the bank cancels them they may also be placed on a national list that will prevent them from obtaining an account at other banks. This why you have so much clout through your bank. Also, why a merchant who cannot take credit cards is such a big red flag. As for the other 'authorities', complain to them if it makes you feel better. If you have dealt with a merchant many times with no problem and then a charge appears without a shipment, you might give them a call and inquire before filing a dispute. A well managed merchant is so fearful of charge-backs that they will often re-ship and then try to trace the errant shipment. Not so much because they are nice (that they may be) but more because they are well-run. When asked why he robbed banks, the infamous bank robber Willie Sutton replied: "That's where they keep the money". ---------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Jan 95 14:24:50 PST From: "cynthia" Subject: Costumes admired but not required ... Dancing Ladies & Gentlemen, synchronize your calendars. Here's a list of upcoming events relating to historical dancing, silly or historical dress up societies and assorted glitz. February 4, 1995 - Cyprian's Ball (BAERS) RESCHEDULED!! February 18, 1995 - The Valentine's Ball (RSCDS) March 4, 1995 - Gaskell's Ball March 4, 1995 - Viennese Ball (FofD) Roble at Stanford March 11, 1995 - Scottish Ball (RSCDS) in SJB March 18, 1995 - Green Carnation Ball (PEERS) aesthetics 1865-95 March 20, 1995 - Joan Walton: Death by Charleston (STAN) March 25, 1995 - Madison Inaugural Ball (BAERS) American "Regency" or Federal Period, is planned for late March Recurring Events 1st Monday of every month -- Paul Price Society Orchestra in Palo Alto Other Mondays -- "Pomander Club" Stan Isaacs teaches dancing, 19th cent thru ragtime, in Palo Alto. Stan is also holding a special Regency group again this summer, starting July 25th. The class begins at 7 PM and continues until around 8P. The group will learn & review footwork, quadrilles, and early waltzes. Wednesdays -- Dance Thru Time, SF Press Club, 50 Oak in SF thru 7 Sept, 7:30P, $9 mostly 1920-40s. Live music 3rd Sun ($25). 1st & 3rd Fridays -- Bay Area ContraDance Society (BACDS) in Palo Alto 2nd Fridays -- Bay Area English Regency Society (BAERS) in Los Altos 2nd Fridays -- JAMMIX vintage dancing to modern (and vintage) music, Richard Powers and Stanford Vintage Dance Ensemble, Roble Hall, 8P 2nd & 4th & 5th Saturdays -- Contra Dancing w/ live (good) music @ YWCA on Alma just W of San Antonio in Palo Alto - 7:30, $5 members $6 nonmembers. Information: Bay Area ContraDance Society (BACDS) Meets 2nd & 4th Fridays 7:30-10 at the Palo Alto Masonic Temple, 461 Florence St. Admission $4 to BACDS members, and $5 for all others. Alan Winston 415.856.2259 for details or winston@ssr101.slac.stanford.edu via InterNet. Feb Dawn Dance 8PM til 7AM in Santa Cruz. Bay Area English Regency Society (BAERS) on 2nd Fridays at Hillview Community Center, 97 Hillview Avenue (off San Antonio) in Los Altos, 7:30-10:30 PM, $5. Contact James Langdell 408.298.9351 (james.langdelli@eng.sun.com) or Alan Winston 415.856.2259 (winston@slac.stanford.edu). Sunday Soirees (GBACG/BAERS) feature a costuming program followed by dance instruction. Usually at Robinson House, room B Preservation Park, Oakland. 2-6pm. $5 per program or $8 for program & dance. Friends of Dance at Stanford (FofD) put on two events annually at Stanford as fund raisers for Stanford Dance scholarships. This group is generally a Richard Powers/ Stan Isaacs and Stanford Dance Dept collaboration. Call Stan at 415.856.8044 or Marcella in the dance dept at 415.723.1234 for info. This year's Odd Ball starts at 7P and runs a full 13 hours; in Roble Gym at Stanford. Admission ~$20 in advance, ~$25 at the door. Ye Gaskell's Occasional Dance Society (Gaskell's) Admission is usually $10; at the Scottish Rite Temple, Lakeside Dr in Oakland. Call Hillary Powers 510.834.1066 for info. Doors open at 7:15, Lessons in waltz, polka at 7:30, Grand March begins at 8:30. Music by the Brassworks. The Pomander Club (STAN) Stan Isaacs intructs in vintage ballroom dancing (1900-1930) every Monday evening from 8-10 at the Palo Alto Masonic Temple, 461 Florence St. Call 415.856.8044 for details or try isaacs@hpcc01.corp.hp.com via InterNet. Admission: $8 on first Monday when the Paul Price Society Orchestra plays, $10 when Richard Powers teaches, and $5 otherwise. Period Events & Entertainments Recreation Society (PEERS) most events in Kensington. Contact 415.593.2940 James & Kathleen Meyers. The Arlington Community Church is at 52 Arlington Ave in Kensington. Admission ~$15 at the door. Royal? Scottish Country Dance Society (RSCDS) Various local associations hold classes in many cities. Only parties and big events are listed above. Board liaison: Alex Tweedly 415.328.5563 maybe a good person to call to find the local group. The VALENTINES BALL to be held February 18, 1995 7:30 PM, Scottish Rite Center, 1547 Lakeside Drive, Oakland, Calif. RSCDS members $25 after 2/1 $30, Nonmembers $30. Send checks payable to RSCDS-SF Branch to: Victoria Williams, 1224 Peralta Ave., Berkeley, CA 94706, no tickets sold at the door. The VICTORIAN-SCOTTISH BALL this year will be held on March 11, 1995, at the Plaza Hall in San Juan Bautista, Calif. Scottish and Victorian workshops 11:00-4:30 Evening Ball 7:00-11:00, Buffet to follow. $15.00. Limited to sixty dancers. No tickets will sold at the door. Attire is formal; Victorian dress admired but not required. For tickets send check, and a SASE to: Kim Jorgenson, 9688 Pollock Lane, Salinas, CA 93907. For information call Kim at (408) 663-3227 ---------------------------- End of Volume 215 -----------------------