From: Gretchen Miller Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 12:58:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 219, 2/8/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 219, February 8, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: Historic costume influencing future costume Corrections to Vintage dance events, SF Bay area Credit cards and Mail order Cloth woven in various shades of undyed wool Cotehardies that really fit Source for various books ISO:Info on proper attire for second marriage in Victorian times ----------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 17:51:40 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Hall Subject: Re: Historic Star Trek On Mon, 30 Jan 1995, Donna Holsten wrote: > throughout history, and extrapolate what *future* clothing might really > be like. But, unfortunately, I think that's a little beyond the scope > of this list. Actually I was watching Deep Space Nine a few weeks back when they went back to a time that's still in OUR future. My friend and I commented on how the clothing looked like it followed a natural sort of evolution...men's jackets had lapels still...but they were higher up and smaller. It would seem to me that clothing during an economic down turn would be more minimalist, less stylish, basically anything to make it cheep. Less wool and, of course, cashmere. Women's clothing still remains stylish...even though you see some shortcuts (vests attached to shirts). But could this be due to more women entering the workforce, hence needing fancier clothes to impress a mostly male management? Since I'm not a serious economics major or costumer, perhaps I should quite while I'm ahead. -Grotesque and Arabesque -Sir.Real ----------------------- From: meier@ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 21:26:13 PST Subject: RE: H-Costume Digest, Volume 215, 1/30/95 Re: >Date: Wed, 25 Jan 95 14:24:50 PST >From: "cynthia" >Subject: Costumes admired but not required ... Dancing Two plugs -- well, three, come to think of it -- and a teeny weeny bit of nitpicking. Plugs number one and two (wearing my hat as a member of the organizing committee for BAERS): The Cyprians' Ball is the Regency equivalent of an upscale Hookers' Ball. This is a great place to tart it up and either find a "protector" or become one, or to simply affect shock and disgust as you dance. The Madison Inaugural Ball is going to be even more historically correct ;) than usual, with dances taken from specific events in American history of the time. This is Madison's second inauguration, by the way, for any sticklers. ---> February 4, 1995 - Cyprian's Ball (BAERS) RESCHEDULED!! ---> March 25, 1995 - Madison Inaugural Ball (BAERS) American "Regency" or Federal Period, is planned for late March >Recurring Events > 1st & 3rd Fridays -- Bay Area ContraDance Society (BACDS) in Palo Alto =========== <----not quite, it's an *English* dance (here's the nitpick) The Bay Area COUNTRY Dance Society (now I'm wearing my hat as a BACDS board member) encompasses not only contra dancing but English country dancing, which are two separate styles. (Short form of explaining the difference: in contra dancing you swing your partner more.) There are nearly as many English country dances run by BACDS as there are contra dances. ("Gosh, these English dancers are *touchy*!" :) ) In fact, and here's the third plug, there is a fancy dress-up English country dance event sponsored by BACDS coming up soon, one of the two big events of the year, very dressy and fun with *excellent* food. Historical costumes from the Playford period (Georgian, basically) deeply appreciated! -----> April 1, 1995 Playford Ball, at Scottish Rite Temple in Oakland >Information: Bay Area Country Dance Society (BACDS) Meets 1st & 3rd Fridays, for English country dancing. 7:30-10:30 at the Palo Alto Masonic Temple, 461 Florence St. Admission $5 to BACDS members, and $6 for all others. (there are English country and contra dances all over the Bay Area; this is just one) Alan Winston 415.856.2259 for details or winston@slac.stanford.edu via InterNet. You can also call 415.282.7374 for BACDS dance information. (note minor corrections) Bay Area English Regency Society (BAERS) on 2nd Fridays at Hillview Community Center, 97 Hillview Avenue (off San Antonio) in Los Altos, 7:30-10:30 PM, $5. Contact James Langdell 408.298.9351 (james.langdell@eng.sun.com) or Alan Winston 415.856.2259 (winston@slac.stanford.edu). (Sunday Soirees (GBACG/BAERS) seem to be on hiatus at the moment, though they aren't gone forever.) Thanks to Cynthia for posting all the historical dance information! I just needed to satisfy my proofreader's soul. Vanessa Schnatmeier =============================================================================== Vanessa Schnatmeier MEIER@SSRL750.BITNET or MEIER@SSRL01.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL =============================================================================== ----------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 10:32:41 GMT From: Alan Braggins Subject: Mail order credit card use > > You want to know if the merchant accepts credit cards, even if you don't > have a credit card!!! You have tremendous (albeit somewhat hidden) > clout when you use a credit card to buy by mail order. A merchant who > can't take credit cards is either very small and/or very new (which can > cause problems) or has already run afoul of the clout wielded by the > banks. > As a small new company, persuading a bank to let you take credit card orders over the phone can be a lot harder than persuading them to let you take them where there is a paper record and a signature. ----------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 10:57:34 GMT From: Alan Braggins Subject: Dyes (or not, actually) > >fabric at home, but I have several antique "oriental" rugs with > >natural dyes. The colours are still clear after at least 100 yrs, but > >subtle. > > Don't be so quick to believe the image of the Middle Ages as dark and > dingy! I have seen naturally dyed cloth (note: they were not restricted > to vegetable dyes) that are quite brilliant. I have a (modern) Turkish wool rug, which is black and brown and white, and I was told that it was undyed, but made from the (unbleached) wool of different colour sheep. I'd say it was subtle, but not dingy. Does anyone know how old or widespread this technique is (or was my leg being pulled), or how fast the colour is (I wouldn't expect it to wash out at all, but at least some hair bleaches in bright light). ----------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 08:20:46 -0400 (EST) From: andrea ruth leed Subject: Re: Wearing Costume Since cotehardies are so close-fitting, and since there aren't two people in the universe that have identical bodies, it's hard to find one that will fit perfectly. My solution is to make a mock-up of the pattern in really cheap fabric (the bodice, sleeves, and just a bit of the skirt), try it on, see where it's too big or to small, mark where the changes need to be made with a marker, take it off, rip out the seams, and alter the original patterns from the cloth pieces. It sounds like a lot of work (okay, it /is/ a lot of work) but since you don't have to worry about hems, backstitching, or making it look nice it goes pretty fast. And the results are worth it. Drea On Mon, 30 Jan 1995 cpecourt@mhv.net wrote: > Hello > I couldn't help wondering where Robin got her cotehardie > patterns? I have been searching for one for ages.. and can't seem to find > one that doesn't look like a potatoe sack once put on. Do you or she have > any suggestions? > Many thanks > Chantal > cpecourt@mhv.net > ============================= aleed@ezmail.ucs.indiana.edu ----------------------- From: Mrs C S Yeldham Date: 31 Jan 95 13:41:00 GMT Subject: Future Clothing Designers may show avant garde clothes, whether they get worn or not is another matter... I don't know if this is publicised in the States, but Vivienne Westwood has been showing bustles (with knee-length or thereabouts skirts and platform shoes) for the last couple of seasons, worn with the boned bodices she has been showing for a while. The stated purpose is that the bustle makes the waist look smaller. Jean-Paul Gaultier is your man for extreme mens fashions, including skirts for men - and a few brave men have even worn them in public. Caroline Ever on the cutting edge of fashion! ----------------------- From: VICKI@lib.uttyl.edu Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 8:18:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: history views the future With all of the discussion about how we see the clothing of the future (Star Trek, etc.), here's a little note about how the past saw *us*. Harper's Weekly, April 24, 1858 Mrs. Gwin gave a grand fancy ball at Washington on the 8th. Every body was there, and the affair went off well. We select from the _States_ a few memoranda of the characters: . . . Hon. Mr. Clingman, of North Carolina, as a _Gentleman of the Twentieth Century_. Blue coat, metal buttons, faced and lined with white satin, except the velvet collar. Two vests--outer one white, under one red. White cravat with lace, also lace at the wristbands. White satin breeches, with red bands at the knee, white stockings, and black pumps. If all those beaux who live in the twentieth century look as well as did the honorable and gallant member from North Carolina, the appearance of ball-rooms will be improved. Vicki Betts University of Texas at Tyler vicki@lib.uttyl.edu ----------------------- From: DENISE@HARV-EHS.mhs.harvard.edu Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 09:37:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: Searching for books I know of the following sources for these books: Period Costume for Stage & Screen - patterns for women's dress 1500 - 1800 By Jean Hunnisett (c)1986 Bell & Hyman LTD Publishing - London ISBN 0 7135 2660 2 Price (given in pounds only) 12.95 This book is available from Poison Pen Press (627 East 8th Street, Brooklyn, NY 11218) for $39.95 and is available mail-order. Postage is $1.50 per book upto a maximum of $7.00. For special handling/insured, add $2.50 per shipment (please allow 6-8 weeks for delivery. I know this lady personally (selling books is a sideline for her) and though she is small, she is very reliable. She also carries Vol. 2 of this book, which covers 1800-1909 (same price). Patterns of Fashion - the cut and construction of clothes for men & women c1560-1620 (c)1985 Macmillan London LTD ISBN 0 333 38284 6 Price $20.00 Poison Pen Press also carries this book ($40), and the next volume (1660-1860 -- $35). Ms. Arnold also has a third volume (1860-1940 I think), but Poison Pen Press doesn't seem to carry it now (they used to). Another book Poison Pen Press carries which you may find useful is Evolution of Fashion: Pattern & Cut 1066-1930 by Hill and Bucknel. It includes male and female costumes for each (English) monarch's reign in 20 year intervals. Patterns are 1/8" scale ($40). I used to own this book, but it is not extremely accurate for the period I was interested in (medieval/Renaissance), so I will not vouch for it's authenticity. Happy costuming! ----------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 09:10:26 -0600 From: bjwolff@facstaff.wisc.edu (Barbara Wolff) Subject: Victorian attire for second marriage Greetings! I'm hoping some kindly souls on the list can give me a clue as to proper attire for the principals (bride, groom, attedant) and guests at second marriages ceremonies during the late (1890s) Victorian era?? I would be eternally grateful.... Thanks in advance! Barbara Wolff bjwolff@facstaff.wisc.edu ____________________________________ Barbara Wolff Office of News and Public Affairs University of Wisconsin-Madison 28 Bascom Hall 500 Lincoln Drive Madison, WI 53706 Ph: 608.262.8292 Fax: 608.262.2331 Email: babs@macc.wisc.edu ----------------------- From: "Heather L. Garvey" Subject: Re: searching for books Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 09:36:30 -0600 (CST) * I'd happily pay cost/shipping/+ an appropriate goodie to * anyone that could help me. [does this sound like bribery? Good!] * * Patterns For Theatrical Costumes * By Katherine Strand Holkeboer (c)1984 Princeton Hall, NJ I spent a year or so trying to get this book. Waldenbooks, B. Dalton, all said it was no longer in print. I found a wonderful bookstore named 'Borders'. THere's one I know of in Cleveland and several in Chicago. When I fearfully asked, they said "Sure we can get it and she just published a new edition. Hardback or paper?" Two weeks later I had the paperback in my mitts. :-) Try a really good bookstore, like Barnes and Noble or Borders. (Borders is where I get all my obscure medieval history books from. :)) -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Heather Garvey Phone: (708) 632-3790 Motorola Cellular, ITS, Rm 2231 E-mail: garvey@cig.mot.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 9:43:50 -0600 (CST) From: Deb Subject: re: history views the future VICKI@lib.uttyl.edu sent us: >With all of the discussion about how we see the clothing of the future >(Star Trek, etc.), here's a little note about how the past saw *us*. > ... snip ... > If all those >beaux who live in the twentieth century look as well as did the honorable >and gallant member from North Carolina, the appearance of ball-rooms will >be improved. Funny ... that's EXACTLY what I was thinking as I read the description! It's too bad today's fancy dress style doesn't look like that. He sounds quite dashing! Deb Baddorf baddorf@fnal.gov ----------------------- From: jeff.sargent@hmg.com Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 06:24:59 Subject: Re[2]: Historic Star Trek Oh yeah...try "Camelot" or "Lion in Winter"...gaaaaaa. _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject Re: Historic Star Trek From "K.C. Kozminski" at Internet Date 1/30/95 8:44 PM >Hi >hair-cuts on the men in R&J. > KC >Don't think of it as aging, think of it as "Attaining Mythic Stature" >kc/Roen >who is, herself __________________________________________________________________________ Jeffery Linden Sargent (510) 601-0900 x310 Sr. MultiMedia Animator jsargent@HMG.COM The HyperMedia Group 5900 Hollis Ste O Emeryville, CA 94608 ----------------------- From: SpydreC@aol.com Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 12:14:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Historic Star Trek I remember three classic examples of STNG doing historic. The cases are (I don't know episode names), all related to Data and his quest for humanity. There is the famous Moriarty episodes set in late Victorian England, The Data does Ebeneezer Scrooge, set in mid victorian and my favorite, Data and Picard do Henry the V. In my memory these were all done very well and portrayed the costumes and theme nicely. Especially the Henry the V, which was the scene where Henry is walking through the camps before the battle of Agincourt. Just my input. )!( Joel Connors spydre_connors@qm.genmagic.com joel_spydre_connors@attpls.net Teirnion Cymro "Crown the wise, harness the talented and cherish the lucky" )!( ----------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 12:26:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Hope A. Greenberg" Subject: Re: Historic Star Trek > would be a really neat exercise to look at the development of costume > throughout history, and extrapolate what *future* clothing might really > be like. But, unfortunately, I think that's a little beyond the scope I remember an article from about 1970 that did just that. It was a "Look at Fashion in the year 2000." Everyone was extremely thin (this was the Twiggy era after all) and bald--all body hair being removed by super-duper dipilatories. However, wigs, primarily bowl cut haridos made from synthetic glitzy plastics, were the norm. The clothing ranged from skin-tight lycra-like full bodysuits to mini skirts (combined with jeweled pasties for women--you must remember the article was written before the 70s!). Greys and yellow seemed to predominate. Thank goodness they were way off base! ----------------- Hope Greenberg Hope.Greenberg@uvm.edu Academic Computing http://moose.uvm.edu/~hag Univ. of Vermont Come visit The Hall's latest addition: Burlington, VT 05405 The Ovid Project ----------------------- End of Volume 219 -----------------------