From: Gretchen Miller Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 18:15:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 222, 2/10/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 222, February 10, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: Question and answers:Pattern with princess seams for cotehardie Finding affordable buttons Question and answer: Appropriate buttons and lacings for kirtle under the surcote Archival garment bags available ISO: Fabric designers mailing list Question and answer: Info on Elizabethan arrefit Brother Cadfael on tape ISO: Info on paste glass jewelry Question: Puritan aprons and Good Irish Stockings Past Patterns comments Source for prints of paintings Uniquely Yours questions ----------------------- From: SCABabe@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 01:31:16 -0500 Subject: "princess line dress" needed I am in nedd of a pattern #. company ect... I want to make a "princess line dress", only adapt the comercial pattern to make it 1400's which I am told is REALLY similar for my SCA personnae. I will be making this out of a maroon ( ancient purple) cotton velvet. This is the full length, circle skirt, tailored bust and waist, longsleeve with buttons up the arm to the elbow, and a lowish scoop neck with buttons on the top half or all the way down the centre seam.. I was told I could buy such a pattern made commercially by MCCall's, ( but with short sleeves ) but was unable to find it. If some one can tell me where I can find this pattern, Know the number for it, or anywhere I could buy a like pattern, please let me know. eiether by e-mail or here. Jen Funk Sca Babe (@aol.com) ----------------------- From: DENISE@HARV-EHS.mhs.harvard.edu Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 09:45:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: A "princess line" mundane dress pattern, altered to have the snug fit of the 14th c. is a good approximation, but it will be more difficult to fit then the authentic pattern, with is a 14 piece dress (not including sleeves). A pattern for such a dress can be found in the publication "Norsemen buried at Herjolfnes", a scholarly publication circa 1920 about the archeological dig of the "lost" colony of Norsemen in Greenland. Unfortunately, these garments were not properly preserved and have disintegrated in storage somewhere in Europe, so all we have are the original notes, drawings, and photographs. I'm sure a modern dress historian could have learned a great deal more than Norland. These are among the VERY few garments that survived to modern times from pre-16th C. Europe. The nice think about this pattern is that the many pieces make it much simpler to custom fit. Take in all the seams 1/8", and you've taken off 1-1/2". Alter the curves just a little on all 8 side pieces, and you have a much snugger fitting bustline. These gowns can be fitted anywhere from loose enough to easily pull over your head to second skin tight requiring wiggling while buttoning or lacing up the center front. These are not the simplest patterns to draft, but if you make up a good muslin, you should be able to get a perfect fit with patience and a willingness to keep taking the seams in/altering their shape. You can then change your paper pattern to match your muslin. Anyone who's really interested and would like a copy of this article should send me their snail mail address, and I'll send it. If I get deluged, I'll have to ask for stamps, so send your email address as well. Hope this helps! Denise Zaccagnino Lady Deonora Ridenow, CM, OS in the SCA ----------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 09:47:38 -0600 (CST) From: Gwyndlyn J Ferguson Subject: Re: "princess line dress" needed On Fri, 3 Feb 1995 SCABabe@aol.com wrote: > I am in nedd of a pattern #. company ect... > I want to make a "princess line dress", only adapt the comercial pattern to > make it 1400's which I am told is REALLY similar for my SCA personnae. I will > be making this out of a maroon ( ancient purple) cotton velvet. Huzzah, huzzzah for late 14th century/early 15th century personas! This pattern style is EASY to find these days, as the flowing princess seamed dress is mighty popular right now. I have recently purchased on from "New Look" and on of the "Sew Easy" patterns, those are both usually in the spinning racks as they are the "cheap" patterns. Please be aware that you may have to alter back zippers to front buttons, and usually the sleeves have to be changes if you want functional buttons there. And the skirts always have to be lengthened to floor length. The tailored front seam is not really accurate, but achieves the fitted look. If you read the earlier post on how a cotehardie should fit like a good pair of jeans, that is the accurate way. As it is very difficult to fit that closely when you're the only seamstress around, I go the "cheater" route often and have several very nice, highly complimented cotehardies made from a slightly altered commercial pattern. Good luck! gf> *Gwyn Ferguson***Western Illinois University *SCA: Lady Gwyndlyn Caer Vyrddin***Lochmorrow-Midrealm *Internet: mugjf@bgu.edu ----------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 15:37:12 -0400 (EST) From: andrea ruth leed Subject: Re: "princess line dress" needed > The tailored front seam is not really accurate, but achieves the fitted > look. If you read the earlier post on how a cotehardie should fit like a > good pair of jeans, that is the accurate way. As it is very difficult to > fit that closely when you're the only seamstress around, I go the > "cheater" route often and have several very nice, highly complimented > cotehardies made from a slightly altered commercial pattern. > Good luck! > gf> > Closely fitted cotehardies are quite beautiful...though I've had problems. Being busty (DD), it's impossible for me to get the monobosom effect in a button-front cotehardie without having gaps between the buttons. I've resorted to actually stitching the upper front of my cotehardie together between the buttons every time I wear it. it's a pain in the neck, but hey, it /is/ period. Speaking of buttons, does anyone know a place where one can find cheap, period-looking silver and gold buttons? The buttons on my cotehardie cost more than the rest of the dress put together. Jerise de' Pelligrini Shire of Mynedd Seren ============================= Drea Leed aleed@ezmail.ucs.indiana.edu ----------------------- From: KTRuby@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 17:01:47 -0500 Subject: Kirtles, Buttons, and Lacing I plan to construct a kirtle and sideless surcote. I have a question about buttons on the kirtle sleeves. My references show the sleeves buttoned from elbow to wrist. Can anyone tell me what kind of buttons I should use? Fabric covered? Knotted cord? Metal? I have used fabric covered buttons on previous kirtles, but I'm not sure they're authentic and kind find no reference as to what the buttons were actually made of. Also, should the sleeves be buttoned with button holes or loops like modern day bride dresses? I have been in the SCA now for a year and have made a couple kirtles, but naturally I am now more interested in authenticity. My previous kirtles have been laced up the back using metal grommets, but I plan to make small round hand-stitched buttonholes for lacing. Can anyone tell me what material I should use for lacing to be most authentic? I have used shoe lacing (flat) but I wanted to dye the lacing and to my horror, have found all flat white shoe lacing is now polyester and, of course is un-dyeable. I have also used rayon cord, but that isn't authentic either. Does anyone know where to get cotton shoe lacing? Or is there some other material I should use? Isabeau Elysia ----------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 12:26:04 -0800 (PST) From: Julie Cheetham Subject: add to list and please post Please add me to the h-costume list: cheetham@u.washington.edu (Julie Cheetham) Also, would appreciate if you would post the following message to the list: Subject: archival cloth garment bags Small museums, historical societies and private collectors who do not have space or budget for flat storage of all costume and textiles may be interested in an economical line of cloth garment bags. Descriptive brochure and fabric samples available from: Past into Present, PO Box 58953, Renton WA 98058-0953. ----------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 16:16:04 -0800 To: H-COSTUME@lunch.engr.sgi.com From: canepa@slip.net (Ricardo Canepa) Subject: Fabric Design I am a fabric designer and am looking for a user group in this field. Does anybody know where I can find one? Do you know of a fabric designer I can contact ? Thank you in advance for your help! -- Angela. canepa@slip.net ----------------------- From: Greyervn@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 20:20:26 -0500 Subject: Attifets and such I would like to make an Elizabeth attifet but am having trouble getting the shape just right and I am wondering how to finished off the back so that the thing doesn't just slid off the back of one's head. I was working from the Winters Elizabethan costuming book, and frankly think their instructions a little vague. Does any one have a pattern or some good instructions they might be willing to share? ----------------------- Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 01:08:11 -0700 (MST) From: VANDERVORT VANDY Subject: Cadfael Video Tapes A boxed set of 4 Cadfael videos are available from The Video Catalog, P.O. Box 64267, St.Paul, MN 55164-0267. Or call 1-800-733-2232. This set is #39805 and it costs $79.95. Hope this will help. ****************************************************************************** Vandy Vandervort AKA... Vandy's Visions, Rocky Mountain Costumer's Guild Treasurer, Broomfield H.S. Art Teacher, owner of TASHI, Welsh Corgi Extraordinair, and collector of Dragons! vandervo@spot.Colorado.EDU ----------------------- Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 10:27:46 -0800 (PST) From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: Kirtles, Buttons, and Lacing On Fri, 3 Feb 1995 KTRuby@aol.com wrote: > I plan to construct a kirtle and sideless surcote. I have a question about > buttons on the kirtle sleeves. My references show the sleeves buttoned from > elbow to wrist. Can anyone tell me what kind of buttons I should use? Fabric > covered? Knotted cord? Metal? I have used fabric covered buttons on > previous kirtles, but I'm not sure they're authentic and kind find no > reference as to what the buttons were actually made of. Also, should the > sleeves be buttoned with button holes or loops like modern day bride dresses? The "Textiles and Clothing" book from the Museum of London has a fair amount of information on exactly this period and subject. It shows fabric buttons being used (not just fabric-covered, but made entirely and only of fabric) and sewn button holes (often with a reinforcement at the edge done with tablet weaving -- it's a bit complicated to try to describe). Metal buttons may have been used in the same circumstances but not found in the same sorts of deposits because they would have been cut off and re-used. > I have been in the SCA now for a year and have made a couple kirtles, but > naturally I am now more interested in authenticity. My previous kirtles have > been laced up the back using metal grommets, but I plan to make small round > hand-stitched buttonholes for lacing. Can anyone tell me what material I > should use for lacing to be most authentic? I have used shoe lacing (flat) > but I wanted to dye the lacing and to my horror, have found all flat white > shoe lacing is now polyester and, of course is un-dyeable. I have also used > rayon cord, but that isn't authentic either. Does anyone know where to get > cotton shoe lacing? Or is there some other material I should use? You could always try braiding a cord. It makes it easy to match the color you want! Heather Rose Jones ----------------------- From: Tracy023@aol.com Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 14:02:38 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Paste glass jewelry Ran across this message on an Archeology list and thought H-Costume subscribers might have some answers. Tracy --------------------- Forwarded message: >From: IACAGC@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU (Anita Cohen-Williams) >Sender: ARCH-L@TAMVM1.TAMU.EDU (Archaeology List) Anita Cohen-Williams; Reference Services; Hayden Library Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ 85287-1006 PHONE: (602) 965-4579 FAX: (602) 965-9169 INTERNET: IACAGC@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU Owner: HISTARCH *** Forwarding note from IACAGC --ASUACAD 01/30/95 00:18 *** Can anyone direct me to some good sources on paste glass jewelry? We have an artifact labeled (not by us) as pasta vitrious which we have translated as paste glass. I am interested in the history of this type of jewelry. (I'll bet it goes back to Roman times!) Anita Cohen-Williams; Reference Services; Hayden Library Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ 85287-1006 PHONE: (602) 965-4579 FAX: (602) 965-9169 INTERNET: IACAGC@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU Owner: HISTARCH ----------------------- From: Tracy023@aol.com Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 14:53:40 -0500 Subject: Aprons & stockings & fabric A 1634 book written for wealthy Puritans planning to immigrate to New England, advised, among other things, that they bring "blew Callicoe, greene Sayes for Housewives aprons...good Irish stockings, which if they be good, are much more serviceable than knit-ones." Does anyone know: 1--was blue calico used for a specific purpose [as opposed to yellow or red]? 2--what are "Sayes for Housewives aprons"? and why were they green? 3--what are "good Irish stockings" [for that matter, what are bad Irish stockings] and how did they differ from "knit-ones?" He also mentions a number of other fabric types, some of which I've found in dictionaries and encyclopedias, but would like to talk to someone who could tell me how such fabrics felt, how well they wore, what they likely would be used for etc. The fabrics he discusses include "Holland, Lockram, flaxen, Hempen, Callico stuffes, Linsey-woolsies." FYI, these immigrant families each brought 10-20 servants with them and the supply list included food and clothing for the servants as well as wealthy family members. Thanks very much. Tracy ----------------------- From: RCarnegie@aol.com Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 15:05:14 -0500 Subject: Past Patterns I am very surprised by the difficulty, and the ire raised by Saundra Altman and her little company! Saundra is an acquaintance of mine, and she does know her stuff, she is however very opininated and I see how that could be end up being difficult customer service. I promise you that her company's faults can never equal those of Olde World Enterprises. I suspect on the wedding post, that you were refering to the wedding dress pattern. Some of the older patterns are no longer sold by Past patterns due to errors in there design. These include the men's sack suit, the 1890s wedding dress, there are may be others I can not think of at present. These are no longer carried in the past pattern catalog, though they are sold by both Raimants and Amazon against Saundra's wishes. The Sack suit patterned is being reworked so that it can be reprinted. I have not had difficulty with constructing any of her patterns, except the wedding dress. The cumberbund does not work. As ludicrous as this sound, it is not unusual for historic patterns to not work correctly. I would rate Past patterns much higher than most others I have worked with. (The muesum of Wisconsin people are great as well). I do not mean to make excuses for patterns not working. While it is common, it should be inexcusable. At least Past Patterns has discontinued her errors. As far as the comment about the West Coast, that surprises me greatly. Saundra often maked trips out here to teach seminars. She also is hoping to relocate her company in Northern California, or is at least considering it. R. Carnegie No relation to G ----------------------- Date: Sat, 4 Feb 95 19:11 EST From: dawn@babel.DIALix.oz.au (Dawn Elson) Subject: buttons and lacing My information on this is mostly from the Museum of London's Historical finds- 1150-1450 series(can give biblio if needed). Covered buttons are just fine, several example have been found. Covered disks are good, I use beads, being too lazy to cut the rounds. You don't need a button kit. They also made buttons just from wool cloth sort of gathered up tightly and stitched through. Metal buttons with shanks are also good, these were expensive so don't use them on lower class costume. Buttonholes are the go rather than loops. Do the buttonholes perpendicular to the sleeve edge(not the wrist). The buttons should be small and very close together(about one per centimeter or so). Lacing: most of the cord found (suspected to be for lacing dresses amongst other things) was made of plaited silk. Silk being expensive, I do braids (fingerloop and standard) of pearl cotton or similar. Embroidery cottons are excellent as you can get it in almost any colour- no dying needed. I then make little folded brass aglets that work like the ends on shoelaces ----------------------- From: AlisounF@aol.com Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 10:04:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Attifets and such On 2/4/95, Greyervn@aol.com wrote: >I would like to make an Elizabeth attifet but am having trouble getting the >shape just right and I am wondering how to finished off the back so that the >thing doesn't just slid off the back of one's head. I was working from the >Winters Elizabethan costuming book, and frankly think their instructions a >little vague. I've made a couple of attifets using the Winter and Savoy directions and have the following observations: -They don't stay on in the wind without a couple of good hatpins. -They stay on best when pinned to a very brief coif underneath. -If the veil is pinned to far to the back, it affects the balance. I even tuck the ends of the veil into the wearer's girdle. -As far as finishing off the back goes, the gathering should be drawn up tight enough to make a rounded area for the back of your head and your hair. >Does any one have a pattern or some good instructions they might be willing >to share? Using the basic shape illustrated in the Winter and Savoy book, I came up with these pattern measurements for a 22" head, with the hair dressed in short curls overall, no bun. Front point to start of gathering - 12" Center front to center back - 14" Side to side at widest part - 20" I gathered the back up to 4" There is also an attifet pattern in From the Neck Up by Denise Dreher. The basic shape is similar but she has shown a curved seam going from CF to CB and she also uses a dart rather than gathers for the back. I have not made up this pattern, but would be interested in hearning if anyone has, and with what success. The idea of darts and a curved seam in fine linen makes me uneasy. I haven't seen any examples of it from history (which may be my own ignorance, but it just goes against the technique of what I have seen, which is mostly gathered and folded into shape). I believe that Dreher may be approaching the subject from the point of modern millinery technique. Pat LaPointe, knee deep in New England Snow Alisoun Fortescue of Maplehurst in the SCA AlisounF@aol.com ----------------------- From: TheaG@aol.com Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 18:46:21 -0500 Subject: finding prints of paintings This is in response to Cindy Abel who asked to find a print of a certain painting (some while back). Thought this might be of general interest: There exists a company called "Print Finders". Phone #914-725-2332 I have never used them, don't know anything about their prices, etc. but thought they would be of use if affordable. Thea ----------------------- From: TheaG@aol.com Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 21:48:34 -0500 Subject: "Uniquely You" dress form HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm sorry to bother you nice people with off-topic stuff but you are the most experienced sewers I know. If you can help, respond by direct e-mail so we won't waste costuming "air-time". Thanks. I bought a "Uniquely You" dress form at deep discount from my local So-Fro which was going out of business (all sales final). The box was marked size Medium and, taking a chance, I decided I might be a Medium. When I got the thing home, I discovered the form is actually a size Medium/Large. According to the measurements in a catalog I later found, I am somewhere between a Small and a Medium. Can I cut the thing down or am I snookered? Also, there is no cover and no instructions for making one. If I can use the thing, I will need these. Is there any hope? Thea TheaG@aol.com ----------------------- End of Volume 222 -----------------------