From: Gretchen Miller Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 19:37:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 256, 3/15/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 256, March 15, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: "The wearing of clothes" and other books about wearing historic costume H-costume archives temporarily unavailable ISO: Books on home sericulture (raising silk worms) Please avoid excessive excerpted text Question: Elizabethan corset boning techniques Tips and techniques for wearing period costume 1890s men's collars Bogus bra inventor and Thomas Crapper Conversion of a leather bag/treating old leather Descriptive subject headers Duct tape corset patterns ----------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 12:51:28 -0600 (CST) From: Helen Mayo Subject: Re: Re[2]: Actresses On Thu, 9 Mar 1995 KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM wrote: > subject is "The Wearing of Clothes" -- I've forgotten the author's name, but > could probably dredge it up. It really is helpful about how people walked and > moved in different historical times. It's ensured me of not doing terrible I checked OCLC, and it's: The Wearing of Costume by Ruth M. Greene London, Safira, 1994 (it was 1st printed in 1966) Unfortunately, it's not listed in the current Books in Print, but it least it would be available via interlibrary loan. Helen Mayo aka Helen of Haverhill mayo@medcat.library.swmed.edu ----------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 13:47:16 -0600 (CST) From: Jennifer Kubenka Subject: Re: Re[2]: Actresses On Thu, 9 Mar 1995 KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM wrote: > and move in different way when wearing trains, for example. A good book on the > subject is "The Wearing of Clothes" -- I've forgotten the author's name, but > could probably dredge it up. It really is helpful about how people walked and > I'm sure there's a librarian or archivist out there who can find the citation > on the book. Any takers? > > Kathleen > kathleen@anstec.com > > Green, Ruth M. _The Wearing of costume : the changing techniques of wearing clothes and how to move in them, from Roman Britain to the Second World War_. London: Pitman, 1966. This book has been issued again, and is published by Safira (London) in 1994. The ISBN for the 1994 printing is 0952114119. It does not appear that the book has been revised or edited in any way. Jennifer D. Kubenka Series Authority/Monographs Cataloger Fondren LIbrary Southern Methodist University Dallas, Texas ----------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 13:49:05 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Findlay Subject: Re: Re[2]: Actresses there is also aa book on costuming as a partner to the actor. title: Costume: The Performing Partner author: jac & miriam lewis isbn 0-916260-71-2 three parts to the book: 1. the role of the costume 2. improvisation and costuming 3. putting the costume to use it deals with costumes affect on the actor and the audience Best Wishes Robin ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Walter Robin Findlay Associate Professor of Theatre Missouri Western State College 4525 Downs Drive St. Joseph, Mo. 64507 Phone: 816-271-4452 E-mail: findlay@mwsc.edu Fax: 816-232-0978 is that all there is........ peggy lee On Thu, 9 Mar 1995 DBROWNE@ucs.indiana.edu wrote: > Kathleen mentioned a book entitled "The wearing of clothes." It appears that > it's been re-issued, as here's the OCLC record: > > ACCESSION: 32020268 > | AUTHOR: Green, Ruth M. > | TITLE: The wearing of costume : > | the changing techniques of wearing clothes and how to move in > | them, from Roman Britain to the Second World War / > | PLACE: London : > |PUBLISHER: Safira, > | YEAR: 1994 > | PUB TYPE: Book > | FORMAT: ix, 171 p. : ill. ; 23 cm. > > --Doug, > computer person attached to Kathy B. > ----------------------- From: Marsha Hamilton Subject: Re: Wearing of Clothes Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 14:58:39 -0500 (EST) > A good book on the subject is "The Wearing of Clothes" -- I've > forgotten the author's name, but... > I'm sure there's a librarian or archivist out there who can find > the citation on the book. Any takers? Yes, I'm a librarian. I think the title you may be referring to is: Green, Ruth M. The wearing of costume: the changing techniques of wearing clothes and how to move in them, from Roman Britain to the Second World War. London : Pitman, 1966. 171 p. illus. 23 cm. Marsha "Trust me, I know what I'm doing--I'm a librarian." ----------------------- From: close@lunch.engr.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Archive Temporary Unavailability. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 12:42:28 -0800 (PST) We're experiencing severe weather out here in Northern California. Power outages and spikes have taken out many machines, including "lunch's" power supply. We're running on emergency backup right now, with a new power supply expected by this weekend. However more serious storms are scheduled to hit Friday and Saturday, so expect more problems reaching the archives for h-costume, on "lunch". Both the weather and the power problems should clear up by early next week. -- Diane Close close@lunch.engr.sgi.com I'm at lunch today. :-) ----------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 15:42:19 -0500 (EST) From: Elizabeth McMahon Subject: Re: Silk On Fri, 10 Mar 1995, Writan Consulting wrote: > Our mulberry trees (one of the black cultivars) fed several groups of silkworms. > Silkworm raising is quite popular in Perth. People who haven't got access to > mulberries use lettuce leaves. Perhaps silkworms (who can barely fly) have > also been bred to be less discriminating. Wow! That's intruiguing. Any books or anything published on how to start a home sericulture project? I've always been curious, and I have the trees available....;*) -*-*- Beth in the office 212-741-4400 ----------------------- From: close@lunch.engr.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Watch that included text, please! Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 12:58:16 -0800 (PST) Please watch how much included text you have in your articles when doing followups, people. It's getting quite excessive and there's no need to include the ENTIRE ORIGINAL ARTICLE when commenting on a post! It's bad for the digest and not nice for those who have to pay for e-mail by the byte. It's also considered bad net manners too. So please delete excessive text from your posts when doing follow-ups. Thanks! -- Diane Close close@lunch.engr.sgi.com I'm at lunch today. :-) ----------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 15:01:23 -0600 From: dssweet@Okway.okstate.edu (Deborah Sweet) Subject: Re: Elizabethan Bodice Question I have been considering making myself an Elizabethan corset but I've been rather confused by the different patterns that I've seen. One of the major differences that I've seen is in the bust area. One pattern calls for the bones or stays to end in semicircles under the breasts. To me this looks like it could be painful. Other patterns have the bones coming all the way up to the top of the corset. I suppose there could be a comfort difference depending upon the endowment or lack thereof. (I'm rather well endowed) Which pattern is more authentic? Which one is more comfortable? What's the best/easiest way to make one? Any other pointers from those who've made them? Thanks for all the help. Deborah Sweet SCA: Estrill Swet ----------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 15:36:28 PST From: aterry@Teknowledge.COM (Allan Terry) Subject: Wearing period clothes Basically, the only way to get comfortable with wearing period clothes is to do it as much as possible, and to think about it as little as possible. Consciousness of "wearing a costume" looks affected, even silly. I also teach and do dance from the late 16th century through the 1920s. The posture for early Renaissance dances is as people described it from paintings--you lean backward with the torso and bow out the stomach to give a slightly pregnant look. It is very similar to what I remember as a basic standing belly dance pose, except in belly dance the knees are slightly bent (though it was years ago that I took belly dance lessons). I have often wondered what, if any, the connection with the Middle East was. By the late 16th century the dances still have a lot of hip lead, but the posture is upright. I can give one tip on dancing in a 19th-century dress with a long train--don't wear a petticoat with a long train underneath! You can lift the dress train with a skirt lifter or loop. But you cannot lift the petticoat with the same device; also it would seem immodest even with another petticoat underneath. And if you let a petticoat drag on the floor, someone (maybe even you) is certain to step on it and tear it. I wear historic, or rather vintage, clothes whenever similar styles are in mainstream fashion. When the "Out of Africa" look was in I wore a lot of vintage Edwardian blouses with Banana Republic "safari" skirts and vintage 1910s-20s Norfolk jackets, and Edwardian hats. The thing to wear now would be 1940s clothes. I don't collect from after 1930, but am trying to decide whether to get some 40s jackets for daily wear. Fran Grimble ----------------------- Date: Thu, 09 Mar 95 23:30:54 GMT From: paul@bozzie.demon.co.uk (Paul C. Dickie) Subject: Re: assam tea and men' l890's high collars Greetings! In message EVANKLEY@legacy.calvin.edu writes: > 1. Where does one find assam tea? In India, in a caddy and in one's tea-pot, if the scullery-maid had been lax. > 2. Does anyone know the basic construction of the high stand-up > men's collar of the 1890's? (The very high collar with parallel > edges, not in a V.) In other words, a "Gladstone", "Masher" or "Dux" collar? > How wide is the band? That varies on the style! o-) > How high is the total collar? Can be as much as 3 inches, though such would look absurd on someone whose neck was rather short. Likewise, a low collar wouldn't look right on someone with a neck like a giraffe... > How much larger than the neck does one cut this? It's made to fit the shirt, though -- of course -- you'll have to allow for the overlap at the front. > We think that the stand-up because of its height must be larger than the > normal neck size. Is that right? Not really, though cutting it a little larger -- with the shirt adjusted to match -- would be useful compromise, if one were desired, to modern standards of comfort. Perhaps this may be one reason for the reputed "naughtiness" of the "90's" -- the shirt collars were so dratted uncomfortable that some chaps jumped at any excuse to remove them? o-) Paul C. Dickie ----------------------- Date: Thu, 09 Mar 95 23:46:32 GMT From: paul@bozzie.demon.co.uk (Paul C. Dickie) Subject: Re: Bogus Bra inventor Greetings! In message <9503072300.AA00546@caesar.quotron.com> marie@caesar.quotron.com writes: > > Diana Dills writes: > I read somewhere that the bra was invented shortly before the turn of > the century by a man named Otto Titzslinger (No kidding!) in Germany or > Austria...anyone care to look this up, and find out if it's true or if > some dressmaker was having a laugh at the expense of a gullible reporter? As the consensus has shewn, it is a rather puerile jape, jest or joke. It's also rather improbable, as the German for brassiere is "Busenhalter". > This story has been making the rounds for years. It is an example > of British humor which caught on as truth along with the Thomas > Crapper story. It is a story simply for laughs. Alas, Thos. Crapper actually *did* exist and was a plumber at around the time that first Joseph Bramah's "wash-out" closet (which, frankly, was something of a wash-out!) was invented which was then superceded by Armitage's "wash-down" closet; Crapper himself also invented sanitary wares of the wash-down variety, which were fitted by his company. He was not, however, the "inventor of the modern loo", but was nearly eponymous with the already prevalent slang term relating to the use of such devices. Perhaps the reason that nobody has ever heard of the Dickie lavatory is that the "silent cistern" that my dear old Great-Great-Uncle devised wasn't exactly silent -- or perhaps it was because it was more likely to drench the user upon their "pulling the chain"? Still, at least that wasn't as bad as the toilets fitted to the British "High Speed Train" of the 1970's; the soil pipe exited to the track and, in common with the way that other, less `advanced' carriages were then built, had a curve at the lower end. This was fine until the train entered a tunnel, and the pressure wave passed down the length of the train... The results are better imagined than described! Paul C. Dickie ----------------------- Date: Thu, 09 Mar 95 00:11:10 GMT From: paul@bozzie.demon.co.uk (Paul C. Dickie) Subject: Conservation of a leather bag Greetings! This is, perhaps, a little unusual for this group -- but, as it involves leather, sewing, cloth and historical items, it seems not inappropriate. I've recently acquired an old "Gladstone" bag which, for the benefit of any American readers who don't know what such might be, is a leather travelling bag fitted with a metal frame at the top which, having hinges at the ends of the long sides and in the middle of the short sides, provides a couple of struts to allow the top of the bag to stay open as a rectangular aperture, yet allowing the bag to be closed securely. (And, yes, I *do* realise that sounds like an application for a Patent!) In the size of bag I've got (20" x 9" wide x 8" high) it would be an ideal bag for a weekend's visit somewhere, or for a sportsman's kit; in a smaller size, it was commonly used for a physician's equipment when making house calls. Anyway, it's quite old and quite well worn. When I got it, the stitching on one end and on the bottom had perished, so that's been replaced. The inside lining is equally grotty and needs to be replaced, though I'm not quite sure with what; the original seems to be unbleached, thin cotton twill, though that seems to be quite impractical. I'm not sure if I ought rather to use linen and I'm tempted to use a darker material -- perhaps a shade of brown, or grey. The outside of the bag also shows considerable signs of wear, with the original tanned surface having been abraded away in places, leaving a sort of suede-like appearance. I don't really want to spoil the appearance of the bag -- and I'm not sure that anything *could* restore the scuffed areas, in any case -- but I would like to prevent any further damage to the leather and, if possible, to restore it to something nearer its original appearance -- or to how it might have appeared some 40 or 50 years ago. (From the same place, I also acquired a gent's evening suit -- black trousers and dress coat (tail-coat) of 1934 with so little wear as to appear quite new! Alas, they seemed to have been made for someone *far* smaller than I am, so I'll just have to study them before sending them along to a museum...) Paul C. Dickie ----------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 21:22:41 PST From: Kat@grendal.rain.com (June Russell) Subject: Re: Elizabethan Bodice Question Deborah Sweet wrote asking about corset patterns which: :calls for the bones or stays to end in semicircles under the breasts. :To me this looks like it could be painful. Other patterns have the bones :coming all the way up to the top of the corset. In my experience, if you put the semicircular type on a large endowed woman, they cut into the lower portions of her breast. The fully boned type seems to be more comfortable. Before I tried it out on a DD type, I thought that this kind of corset was for them. After all, all my large busted friends say that their breasts are extremely tender. However, I now think that they were for a different type of tender breasted female: the young ladies with their first breast buds. There's nothing to cut into, but something rigid over this area would probably be very uncomfortable. This may explain why portraits of teenage women (such as the red dress portrait of Elizabeth I) have tiny gentle female curves, whereas so many of the more mature women appear to be more straight front corseted. One of the problems with 16th century corsetry is that we have so few corsets from that period to compare. The one with the semicircles is from the early 17th century. We know from letters, inventories and the like that all corsets were not of the same materials. Whaleboning was used, but to what extent we don't know. (Because of the ban on whale-products, we can use 1/4" steel stays in their place.) We know that certain types of reeds were also used. (If you can't get reeds, 2 pieces of Rigeline in each pocket seems to approximate it.) They also had leather corsets (although these may have been more popular amongst the lower classes) and "paste" corsets (which is 2 or more layers of linen glued together, much like our dressmakers buckram but with more dense fabric). Some even had iron bars (although these were said to be uncomfortable). Although we have a couple of iron corsets (which often end up as examples of "corsets from the middle ages and renaissance" in costuming books), these may have been for special use such as back braces are now used in scoliosis. Kat Kateryne of Hindscroft ( June Russell ) pacifier.rain.com!grendal!kat kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! ----------------------- From: jennyb@pdd.3com.com Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 08:37:29 GMT Subject: Re: Conservation of a leather bag Old leather can go brittle when it loses its natural oils. My grandfather treated all his leather with either saddle soap or neatsfoot oil, but reckoned that regular use was the best way to keep things supple. I have managed to rescue old leather that has gone brittle by dousing it in either neathfoot oil or in "liquid Nikwax" (which is a synthetic product intended for waterproofing hiking boots), both darken the leather slightly, but restore suppleness to the driest & most brittle leather. Be warned both nikwax & neatsfoot oil will soak through & stain any lining, so if you are contemplating replacing the lining do it after you've treated the leather. >From the demon address I assume you are in the U.K., nikwax can be bought here from camping shops such as Blacks, neatfoot oil I get from Tintwistle handspinners in Huddersfield who will supply mail order, but tend to sell in rather large quantities for a one off project. Perhaps you might try a saddlers as the oil is used extensively on horse tack. Jennifer ----------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 08:26:56 -0800 (PST) From: "RuthAnn M. Saylor" Subject: Re: what's relevant On Sun, 5 Mar 1995, Deborah L. Barlow wrote: > One suggestion: It would be nice if everyone would put something > descriptive in the subject line. Blanks or repititions of the senders > name aren't particularly helpful to those who would like to skim > through. > Perhaps including dates in the subject line also... i.e. silk 19c or silk pre-1500's? This would allow subscribers who are only interested in certain time periods to skim through their mail faster. My 2 cents worth. Ruth Ann ----------------------- From: "Lassman, Linda" Subject: Re: Elizabethan Corsets Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 11:41:00 PST I made an Elizabethan corset a number of years ago, following instructions I was given many years prior to that. They recommended not boning over the breasts, and when I made it, I pulled the wires from an old bra to define the edges of the unboned areas and to give a little more protection against being poked by bones in areas in which I didn't want to be poked! For the boning I used 1"-wide steel straping (because I couldn't get anything more satisfactory at that time), which was free from a lumberyard (they even cut it into lengths for me to make it easier to carry. I shaped them using tin snips, then filed off all the rough edges and sealed them with nail polish to keep them from rusting. It was heavy, but not uncomfortable to wear. It's worked quite well, although--alas--I've sort of outgrown it and need to make a new one. Which brings me to my question. One problem with the corset I made was with fitting it. Obviously the uncorsetted measurements were somewhat different than the corsetted ones, and I found the positioning of the arm cutouts and hip placement to be a little off once the corset was laced. In order to ensure that this problem didn't arise again, I was thinking about using a variation on the duct tape dressform to create a corset pattern: use duct tape over a snug teeshirt (possibly with a taped-in busk) to create the proper corsetted silhouette, then mark the top and bottom edges, busk area and unboned bosom area, and cutting up the centre back for the lacing. Is this a good idea? A bad idea? Does anyone have any better suggestions or experiences that they could share on this topic? - Linda Lassman Winnipeg, Manitoba ----------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 11:08:56 -0800 (PST) From: Tracey Miller Subject: Re: Elizabethan Corsets Linda Lassman wrote: > In order to ensure that this problem didn't arise again, I was thinking about > using a variation on the duct tape dressform to create a corset pattern: use > duct tape over a snug teeshirt (possibly with a taped-in busk) to create the > proper corsetted silhouette, then mark the top and bottom edges, busk area > and unboned bosom area, and cutting up the centre back for the lacing. > > Is this a good idea? A bad idea? Does anyone have any better suggestions or > experiences that they could share on this topic? I, too, was thinking of using this method and would also really appreciate any info. Thanks, Tracy ----------------------- From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 15:26:23 EST Subject: Re[2]: Elizabethan Corsets For Linda Lassman, who asks about measuring for an Elizabethan corset. In my experience in making corsets, measuring the uncorsetted, unfettered body gives you a much better idea of where things should go, like armhole cutouts, etc. I used the corset pattern in the Winters/Schultz RenFaire book and it worked perfectly. I, like you have, alas, outgrown it, so another is in order. Kathleen kathleen@anstec.com By the way, your name is familiar. I know you from somewhere. K ----------------------- From: Marsha Hamilton Subject: Re: Conservation of a leather bag Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 15:58:19 -0500 (EST) This may be overkill, but my riding instructor gave me the following instructions for keeping the leather on a saddle supple: 1. Use saddle soap to clean the leather 2. Use a leather conditioner to moisterize (horse supply stores in the Yellow Pages have different brands) 3. Use neatsfoot oil to seal the moisture in Do as frequently as needed. The instructions on the products indicate it's best to use a smaller amount more frequently than too much all in one session. You apply with a damp cloth (saddle soap) or dry cloth (moisterizer, neatsfoot) and let them sit for at least ten minutes before buffing them off. And before applying the next step. I've never heard of products for maintaining suede. Often a suede brush (small stiff brush) is recommended to raise the nap again and remove dust. Marsha ----------------------- From: cpecourt@mhv.net Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 17:20:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: Bodice question ( yet another) Hello, I have yet another bodice question. Where does one put the boning in a back lacing bodice?? In a front lace bodice I have been taught to put one strip of boning in the front on either side of the opening.. is this right? Are there other ways? For a back lacing dress bodice does one need boning? If so where does it go and are there any special concerns and or precautions that I should be aware of? On a second note, I have used steel boning and found it uncomfortable, perhaps because it was not done properly..the cheap plastic kind at the sewing stores is very flimsy but more comfortable..does anyone have suggestions? I have read many times that bodices/coresets are comfortable..wish mine were... Also, someone mentioned a Ren Fair book that had a corset pattern..can someone tell me about this book please? Many thanks Chantal ----------------------- End of Volume 256 -----------------------