From: Gretchen Miller Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 18:46:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 264, 3/29/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 264, March 29, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Topics: ISO: Sources for costuming information Wool vs plant fibers/silk in fire retardancy ISO: Period references to fire retardant fabrics Biography Shoes for the "must fit right" feet Dressing the proper viking ISO: Lasts and information about them Question and answer: Victorian dress for wedding wear Making a great kilt On St Crispin and Cordwainers ISO: Fabric for Connecticut Fife and Drum corp Pantyhose history New address/membership info for British Costume Society ISO: Info on clothing for indentured servants in USA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 16:25:59 -0800 (PST) From: Carol Cannon Subject: RE: Deirdre's Request for Costume Source Help fwd. from SCA-West Please note: Your replies should be sent to: Deirdre, i.e., Slithytves@aol.com. Many thanks.--cjc ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:40:54 -0800 From: Slithytves@aol.com Subject: [SCA-WEST:1035] clarification I sent this request: I'm interested in detailed information on costuming..............mainly women's clothing....particularly dresses. If anyone knows of good books or publications, please email back. Thanks! Deirdre I realize now that I should have been more specific; I got lots of what period? and what country? Sorry for the vaugeness. Well, I'm interested in the midieval period (13th to 15th century I suppose) and mainly the areas which now form the British isles and France. Sorry again for the confusion! ~~Deirdre ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 95 16:47:28 PST From: "cynthia" Subject: Fire hazards & clothing Nancy> Also printed sources for the drop-skirt. We are saying that the cord in the petticoat is for safety so that you could drop your skirt incase of fire at the hearth. We live in a historic meca and need to be as correct as we can. Deb> In short, I've never heard of the "safety" reason, and I find it hard to fathom, from my own experience in wearing the skirts. Hello from the frontier! While I've never found a source for this practical advice, here's a tidbit that works. Make your cooking clothes from wool, not any of the plant-based fibers. Keep the dainty dimity aprons when you have the ladies in to tea. Your petticoat is underneath the fashion fabric, so it makes little sense to drop it. Do this experiment on your backyard grill: drop a burning coal on wool, silk, linen and cotton. Notice that the silk goes *FOOF* and the wool smolders. Yea, it smells, but you have time to douse your skirt. My "kitchen" at the Peralta Adobe in San Jose is an 1840 beehive oven called a hornito, an open grill called a comal and a firepit with a wrought iron tripod. Yes, I worry about flying ash and dragging my skirt over the coals. Fortunately the Spanish liked their skirts a little shorter in Calif. If anyone _does_ come across any period advice for fireproofing (clothing) I'd love to hear about it. There were no answers from my long ago posting. --cin Cynthia@caere.com ------------------------------ From: RJRowoldt@aol.com Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 02:38:40 -0500 Subject: New name; old shoes Hello costume enthusiasts! I am stumbling my way around the net, and am glad to run into you folks! Before I fire off any missives, I thought it would be polite to let you know who I am. The prevailing social atmosphere of my childhood (in the 60's and 70's in Wisconsin) frowned upon members of the male sex showing an interest in sewing, let alone choosing their own wardrobe, so I, like all boys, sat through industrial arts courses in which I had absolutely no interest. I completed an undergraduate degree in Music Education--mostly as a compromise to my family. During that time I held summer jobs as a property master for a college summer stock company--which turned into a crash course in sewing. After a year of teaching high school music, public school administration drove me to graduate school. I enrolled in the Indiana University School of Music as a student in stage direction for opera. In my first semester I was offered a position as a Faculty Assistant--in the opera theatre's costume shop. I had yet to sew a real garment.... But the costumer thought I had an aptitude for it. I quickly learned basic garment construction--as well as dyeing, craft/jewelry work, and millinery. Soon I was teaching costume construction specific to opera and ballet (yes-I make tutus. Do you want yours ABT style, or traditional Bolshoi?) I spent seven years in this capacity at the IU Opera Theatre. To my surprise, I found myself getting job offers--mostly from colleges and universities. To their surprise, I didn't have the requisite Masters in an appropriate field! So I spent another two years at Indiana getting an MFA in Theatrical Costume Design. Before I had graduated, I found myself on my way to St Louis to work for Opera Theatre-St Louis, and then (and concurrently) the Repertory Theatre of St Louis. And also many shorter-term jobs as costume designer, or costume shop foreman, or craft shop foreman, or milliner, or... Those of you who have worked as full-time staff members for our regional theatres know the point of exaustion and frustration one can reach with the long hours, low pay, and lack of respect (or even acknowledgement). I reached that point sometime in the last year or so, but it was not until my apartment in St Louis was condemned that I was moved to do something about it. If my spouse and I had to move, why not make it a big one? We are now relocated in Minneapolis, where I have begun working freelance, building whatever projects come my way that interest me--everything from animal mascot costumes, to fantastic (not-an-item-that-resembles-hair-on-'em) wigs, to performance gowns, to couture work, to building and/or refurbishing period umbrellas and parasols, to hand beading and embroidery, to--well, almost anything imaginable. Somewhere along the way I amassed a decent collection of period cutting guides, sewing guides, etc, most of which I use to make clothing for myself and my spouse--it saves on the wear and tear of the real period garments I developed a penchant for wearing (everyday--I hope that doesen't distress too many of you!) That, in probably not-short-enough form, is who I am and what I do. I'd also like to reply to Amy's questions about 18th century shoes: here's what I've done for simular shoes for wear on stage. Check out "The Mode in Footwear" by R. Turner Wilcox, or any of the more recent 'picture books' of historical shoes; take the book or a xerox of what you want with you, and go shopping. Fortunately, we've reached a point in fashion where most everything is a rehash, shoe styles included. For those fancy dancing slippers to go with your ball gown, most department store lingerie and/or women's sleepwear departments carry nice (and nicely decorated) slippers which will do just fine--look, for instance, for a company called Henry Green out of somewhere in New England. Sometimes even discount stores carry fancy satin (etc) slippers. Or buy a plain pair and embroider them yourself! For the more constructed shoe of the period (low spool-like heel, slip-on, simple vamp decoration such as buckle or ruffle), look in the trendier 'shoe boutiques'--this heel has been somewhat popular for about five years, so many companies have offered cheap versions, often dyeable! If you don't find what you want in the too-trendy-to-be-seen-in shops (look for any place that advertises Doc Martins!), go to a bridal shop--it is amazing how shoe styles hang on and on in bridalwear! I hope that helps! ------------------------------ From: Mrs C S Yeldham Date: 21 Mar 95 09:08:00 GMT Subject: Shoes Amy I am not the shoe maker in my family (my husband does that!) although I have made a few pairs before we met! However I just wanted to say that making shoes is not as difficult as it appears. I'm talking about 16th century styles, of leather (sometimes fabric tops, such as velvet), welted and often with clump soles and heels. I have some shoe notes at home I could send you by snail mail if you are interested. Kevin (sorry, my husband) takes two to three days to make a pair. We find the most difficult bits are making sure they fit - which means time spent on drafting the pattern precisely. You cannot unmake and refit as with clothes. The other problem was making holes in the sole leather with an awl - my husband uses a very fine drill for this, but people with strong hands have less of a problem. Shoes like this are not as difficult to make as they appear, although I think things get more complicated once you start looking at shoes with heels. I just thought I would put the alternative argument to finding reasonable modern shoes. People are often put off making shoes by the thought that they are very difficult, they just pose different problems to clothes! BTW, I have difficult feet (very short and broad) and find it almost impossible to find comfortable modern shoes - I wish I could wear my period shoes all the time! Just like clothes made to fit - shoes made to fit are very comfortable! Caroline ------------------------------ From: jennyb@pdd.3com.com Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 09:55:08 GMT Subject: Re: Viking woman's persona info needed. OOH goody, someone else interested in Viking women's costume! There's a book called something like "women in the Viking age" which would probably be useful to you. I haven't got it here, if I remember I'll grab it from home & get the full reference tomorrow. Inga Hagg has published a couple of papers on Viking women's costume from Birka. This settlement may well have been atypical as it has strong trading links with the east, but given the scant information on Viking women's dress the Birka info. is better than nothing. Same again I haven't got the references with me, but I'll try to look them up this evening, As a general introductory book, the British Museum published a book "the Vikings" which covers all aspects of Viking life & times & includes sketches of costume. It seem sto go into reprint pretty often & is published in other countries aswell as the U.K. so you should be able to get a copy on inter-library loan. I'll look up details on the author, (it's either going to be David Wilson or James Graeme-Campbell). Like most of the general texts there isn't a lot on women in particular. There was also an exhibition at the British Museum on Viking age artefacts. The catalogue is profusely illustrated & each article is described along with dimensions (so often a piece is pictured in a book, but no idea of size is given that the measurements are a real boon). The catalogue includes buckles, brooches, tablet woven cuffs, and a host of other items (including armour & weapons). I think the catalogue is called Viking artefacts & authored by James Graeme_Campbell, but I'd have to check to be sure. If you can get hold of a copy of this grab it, If you don't want it I'll buy it off you, I've never managed to buy my own copy and would dearly love to. There are a few copies aroundin libraries here in the U.K., you may be able to find a copy in a library where you are. If you want very basic instructions on costuming, I can send you a booklet prepared for a U.K. re-enactment society, which has basic patterns and instructions. It's intended for absolute beginners, but it should be enough to get you a first costume & includes things like shoe patterns with instructions for making up the shoes. It was intended to be given out to people who could come to me for help if they had trouble with making anything, but I suppose you could always email me if you got stuck. Email me if you want a copy: I'll send them out if you can send me a couple of International Reply coupons to cover the postage. I would be happy to discuss armour & weapon types in private email, but as it's probably not of interest to a historic costuming list I won't go into detail here. (If you're SCA you'll have to deviate a long way from authentic Viking armour to get something that fits within your safety requirements.) Lastly "Viking" covers a lot of time & space. Information is very scanty, but it is still possible to distingusih variations in clothing across the miles & across the centuries. Did you have any particular location & date in mind? Jennifer ------------------------------ From: jennyb@pdd.3com.com Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 10:12:54 GMT Subject: Re: Shoes The only problem I've had with fitting shoes is people will insist on having them made to touch their feet. The toes should have room to waggle around, shoes that fit your toes closely will be O.K. until you walk in them. I've seen may people wear replica historic shoes & declare them unwearable & uncomfortable just because they didn't give themselves any room around the toes. Check out how much room you have in a comfy pair of modern shoes & don't forget to allow the same amount when making historic shoes. Also if you're making your own patterns for shoes, fit them whilst you've got weight on your feet. Feet that are being stood upon are a completely different shape from feet without weight on them. Jennifer ------------------------------ From: Joaquinaz@aol.com Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:04:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Books etc. for Anglo-Saxon costumes? Please answer this useful question of Kimberly's about sources of corset patterns, etc. to the list!! ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Shoes Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 12:04:34 -0500 From: Babs Woods Caroline, Where does your husband find his lasts? I have often seriously considered making some of my own shoes, as I despair of finding any that are not sneakers in my size and shape. Is there a different last for shoes with elevated heels (1" and so on)? I'd like to find wooden lasts to use. Thanks, -babs ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:14:47 -0800 From: delarorm@sce.com (Ruby de la Rosa) Subject: help!! I am new to this list (1day) and I hope someone can help me!!! I am open to all ideas and hints. I am looking for a pattern or some information on a victorian dress. I am planning on possibly getting married in December of this year. I want something soft not too frilly (overweight about 40 lbs) or full. Something very lacy and soft. I will need the shoes too! I do sew and am crafty, and I also have an excelleent dressmaker. Oh, the hat! I will need a hat too! Help!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 21:49:00 -48000 From: Luanne Cupp Subject: Re: Help!!! I have never seen Folkwear's instructions, but a great kilt is very easy to fold and wear. Just smooth out about two yards of one end and start pleating straight across. According to the many men I know who wear them, you just have to figure out the depth of pleat that will make it fit *your* body (e.g., always fold this red stripe to that black one, etc.). The pleats will probably overlap each other (that is, the kilt will be more than one pleat thick in places). I assume the instructions tell you to leave about 1/3 of a hip measurement smooth at the beginning and end of the pleating, for the apron. It also helps to lay your belt down first, and pleat the kilt over it. I have many friends who recreate 16th century scots, so feel free to reply with more questions. Luanne Cupp On Fri, 17 Mar 1995, Catnip wrote: > > Has anybody successfully made a kilt from the Folkwear instructions? > I'm going insane trying to figure out the directions for the pleats. > The kilt isn't supposed to wrap around twice, is it? What's the trick to > getting 8 yards of fabric to fit a man with a 34" waist? > > Any and all help woll be greatly appreciated! > > Thanks! > > - Dorothy > cantip@crl.com > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:56:01 -0500 (EST) From: Victoria Gilliam Subject: Last bit on Cordwainers I was just reading a book ("Medieval Holidays and Festivals: A Calendar of Celebrations" by Madeleine Pelner Cosman) and came upon the following information (in the Halloween section): King Crispin & the Revelers' Boot Baldrics: ... ...King Crispin, really Saint Crispin, is the patron saint of Cordwainers--boot or showmakers who work with Cordwain or Cordovan leather from Spain.... Just thought I should add this to the discussion. Vycke' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errs. Brain fried -- core dumped. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Vycke' Gilliam z009341b@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us ------------------------------ From: BEARLEE1@aol.com Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:52:49 -0500 Subject: Fabric Source Needed.... Here I go asking favors of you all again. Have just been asked to help a Connecticut Fife and Drum Corp to "re-costume" after over twenty years. It is about time. Nothing matchs any more. They don't want to really change. They just want to be uniform again. I can find most everything I need, but their present waistcoats are of a deep red wool fille. It would not have to be authentic in composition, but would like something of that weight and appearance. I would need about 70 plus yards. Any suggestions of a mailorder that has swatches available, or somewhere in the New York to New England area that I could make a day trip to. I'm on the Southeastern shore of Connecticut. Please E-Mail me privately. Hate bothering the entire list with a request such as this. Thanks for any help you can give. Carole (Bearlee1@aol.com) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 17:14:34 PST From: susanf@EERC.Berkeley.Edu (Susan Fatemi) Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 259, 3/21/95 re: pantyhose, stockings, etc. This is going on too long, so I might as well offer my historical "evidence". I graduated from high school (and got married) in 1966. I wore garter belt & stockiings. (with those little garters that dig into the backs of your legs) I remember in 1967, getting "beige" fishnet stockings 'cause they were "in", and still having to use a garter belt to keep them up. I think it was right around then 1967/68 that panty hose became widely available. And it was hard to balance between mini-skirts and garters! This was in Santa Cruz and San Luis Obispo, Calif. But I don't remember seeing them in San Francisco stores either. Now you *all* know my secrets! regards Susan Fatemi (who now wears knee-highs and long skirts) susanf@eerc.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ From: Tiepolo2@aol.com Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:55:31 -0500 Subject: Pantyhose, stockings, etc. Recently, one contributor to the pantyhose thread cited an NPR story about pantyhose being invented 35 years ago. Another remembered seeing pantyhose in stores in New York City in the early '60's, suggesting that there wasn't a period when women wore miniskirts with gartered stockings as opposed to pantyhose. Another said that whatever may have been worn in some areas of the country, pantyhose did not replace gartered stockings for most women in Seattle until the late sixties. I want to add to this that I definitely remember a period of two or three years when my girlfriends and I wore garter belts or girdles with miniskirts. As I said in a previous post, I vividly remember the period of pantyhose replacing girdles as 1967-1970, when I was attending a high school in a middle to upper-middle income suburb of New York, and college in New York City. It was not, I think, a regional thing in which pantyhose came in in the early sixties in New York and spread slowly over the rest of the country. My girlfriends and I had excellent shopping access and we knew and cared about fashion. But we were not really aware of pantyhose as an option until 1967. I wonder why there was this lag time between the invention of pantyhose and its widespread adoption? Was there a technological improvement? Was there a sudden publicity push? Or did companies suddenly see a market because so many of us were trying so desperately and futilely to keep our girdles and garter belts hidden under our skirts? There's a fascinating and probably unwritten fashion story here, no doubt. Suzanne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 21:09:09 PST From: aterry@Teknowledge.COM (Allan Terry) Subject: Costume Society membership I just renewed my British Costume Society membership. They have had a new membership secretary for some months. The new membership address is: Pat Poppy Membership Secretary Costume Society 21 Oak Road Woolston, Southampton SO19 9BQ England They accept personal checks for American dollars. My individual membership cost $35 for membership, the journal, having newsletters sent separately from the journal, and their bank cost for converting dollars to pounds (which must be a lot less than my bank charges!). Fran Grimble ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 21:58:27 -0800 (PST) From: Maryjo Bruce Subject: Re: Pantyhose, stockings, etc. I remember having pantyhose in 1965 in Denton, TX. I also remember that in 1966 there were hints published in women's magazines about how to get into them...whether it was best to stand up, sit down, gather the legs up and stick your toes into the foot, pull one side halfway up and then pull on the other side an equal distance, put on gloves, rubber or cotton, to keep from running them with your fingernails...and so forth. I remember cutting these suggestions out and taping them to the refrigerator. Sunny ------------------------------ From: jennyb@pdd.3com.com Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 09:01:03 GMT Subject: Re: Viking woman's persona info needed. Here's the refernces I thought might be useful:- "Viking Women's Dress at Birka: a reconstruction by Archaeological methods" Inga Hagg, in "Cloth & Clothing in Medieval Europe" Ed. N.B. Harte & K.G. Ponting (Lots of the archaeological stuff is published in German, I think this is one of the most useful papers in English). "Women in the Viking Age" Judith Jesch Pub. The Boydell Press, 1991 ISBN 0-85115-278-3 (The best book I've found on Viking women, somewhat brief on costume, but tons of information on general social background. If you can't find it get in touch & I'll give you details on distributors.) "The Vikings" James Graham-Campbell & Dafydd Kidd Pub. British Museum Publications Ltd. 1980 ISBN 0 7141 1352 2 (cased) ISBN 0 7141 1353 0 (paper) (also published in North America by the Tabard Press, general introductory book, originally written to accompany a British Museum exhibition). Jennifer ------------------------------ From: "Mary Wood" Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:19:12 CST Subject: pantyhose I have a comment and a question. I'm one of those who remembers stockings/girdles co-existing with short skirts about 1966 (in south eastern Wisconsin), but I also recall a short-lived inovation in hose that no one else has mentioned. My mother brought home some pairs of stockings that were somewhere in-between. They came in two pieces, but required no garters to wear. Instead, they attached at the waist, front and back (with snaps, I think). They must have come out near the same time as pantyhose,or maybe a little after, because I remember that having the separate legs meant you didn't have to throw away a whole pair of pantyhose because one leg had run. They were interchangable. Does any one else remember this peculiar invention, or know why it didn't catch on? Mary Wood MPW@gml.lib.uwm.edu ------------------------------ From: "Mary Wood" Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:24:56 CST Subject: indentured servants I'm posting this question on behalf of a student who works with me. She wondered if indentured servants in pre-slavery America wore a uniform, or some kind of specific clothing, that made them recognizable as indentured servants on sight. She wondered, I guess how they could be caught if they tried to break their indentured "contract", as they would have looked "like everyone else". Mary Wood MPW@gml.lib.uwm.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:33:33 -0800 From: delarorm@sce.com (Ruby de la Rosa) Subject: Re: Pantyhose, stockings, etc. I remember the "mesh" no run stockings! "yuck" living in los angeles, My friends and i would shop in the garment district and would try all kinds of stockings! this was in 66-67. I always had a problem with stickings, cause even if i was not overweight then my thighs are heavy and the stockings never seemed to fit right! What a great item to catch on as it has, sortta freed woman! ha..... r ------------------------------ End of Volume 264 -----------------------