From: Gretchen Miller Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 19:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 288, 4/21/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 288, April 21, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu NOTE: This is the last digest you'll be getting until May 1! Please don't send mail to the list maintainer asking what's happened to the digest. Thanks and have a good week--gretchen (h-costume list maintainer) Enjoy! ------------------------------ Topics: History of Herringbone weave Hemming cloaks ISO: Number of J Peterson Co catalog Opinions of J Peterson Co On the term cotton wool On linen Gretchen (h-costume maintainer) away until May 1! Source of reasonably priced linen Breat-binding ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "E.M. Lurvink" Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 14:26:41 MET-1DST Subject: Re: Herringbone Weave Reply to this letter from Kathleen. >From: KTRuby@aol.com >Date sent: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 17:24:38 -0400 >To: h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu >Subject: Herringbone Weave >Can anyone tell me how far back herringbone weave textiles go? I have found >some beautiful nubby raw silk herrinbone fabric I would like to use for a >midieval tunic of some kind, but I wonder what time frame and what region >this would be appropriate for. > >Any suggestions? Dear Kathleen, In my spare time I make Iron-age-type clothes for the Eindhoven Prehistoric Open Air Museum in the Netherlands. This includes spinning and weaving. We use archeological finds to know what to make and how. Believe me, herringbone weave was even possible in the Pre- Roman Iron age in Western Europe. It hasn't been found back a lot though, but that's because other twill-patterns of this type are much nicer to see, I think. If you can make a herringbone weave, you can easily combine it with another weave and make lozenge twill or broken lozenge twill. I don't know how fashionable herringbone weave was in later times but I suppose it has survived, since you can still buy it. I hope this answers your question. Liesbeth ------------------------------ From: NeenH@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 09:17:07 -0400 Subject: hemming cloaks Gail, silk is not necessarily really expensive, I recently found some mid-weight raw silk, loose weave, priced similarily to "fashion" cotton (modern usuage--plant fiber!) Use a thin, densely, smoothly woven cotton, if you can't find appropriate silk. Hang the lined, unhemmed cloak 3 or 4 days befor hemming. You can sew the fronts together, but the hems should be separate. You can tack them together with long thread tacks after, if you want. Fulled, non-ravelly wool needn't be hemmed, a great time saver! I made my girls (3 and 5 yrs old) red capes, 1/2 circle, from Beth Gilgun's "Tidings from the 18th Century", with gathered hoods, only the hoods are lined. I fulled the wool by boiling, the edges are left raw and they aren't fraying. I edged the hand slits and put a flap behind them to keep wind out. They needed the slits, to be able to hold my hand without their cloaks opening up too much. Off course, we hear a lot of "Little red riding hood" comments mixed in with the waves of "ooh, ahhh" as we walk by people. The newest wool I've used, I fulled by the washing machine, wash hot, rinse cold, use real soap method. My husband's new waistcoat is soft, thick and fuzzy. I saved some of the wool unfulled, it is 3-4 times thicker now. >1). With what material should I line it? The cape itself will be a >slightly felted black wool--thanks to listmembers for felting >instructions! Most of the SCA cloaks I've seen were lined with a poly >silky, but I'm reluctant to do that, as this cape will be used in the >summertime. Also, silk is expensive; is there a less-expensive fabric >that's a good choice? >2). For how many days should I allow it to hang before hemming it? >3). Should I attach the bottom of the lining to the bottom of the cape, >or allow both layers to hang freely? >4). Should I interline the wool? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 06:55:15 -0700 From: goddess@cats.ucsc.edu (Venus Envy) Subject: cape lining In Reply to: >------------------------------ >Date: Thu, 13 Apr 95 15:18:19 PST >From: "Gail DeCamp" >Subject: Cape Lining/cape making > > >Greetings, all. I am about to make an elizabethan cape for someone >playing a sea captain. I have the brown book (Janet Winter/Carolyn >Savoy's book), and was going to follow the instructions therein for a >3/4 circle cape. Clear enough. My questions are as follows: > >1). With what material should I line it? The cape itself will be a >slightly felted black wool--thanks to listmembers for felting >instructions! Most of the SCA cloaks I've seen were lined with a poly >silky, but I'm reluctant to do that, as this cape will be used in the >summertime. Also, silk is expensive; is there a less-expensive fabric >that's a good choice? > >Thanks for your help. > >Gail DeCamp >decampg@smtplink.ngc.com ----- In my experience, wearing cloaks at such events, the most comfortable fabric to line it with is flannel-- it's soft, and absorbs all the sweat and water and dust quite well :) -Heather Meadows ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:07:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Tempest Subject: Re: Experience w/J. Peterman? On Thu, 20 Apr 1995 KTRuby@aol.com wrote: > I have received a couple catalogs, which includes some incredible items, many > of which can be used for costuming, or to be worn daily if you like > historical classic or ethnic classic clothing. They have copies of dresses & > hats from 30's to the 60's, men's jackets & coats from 30's & 40's and > before, incredible long, wide gored skirts, natural fabrics, even a belt with > a pewter Texas star buckle from 1865. There are shoes, jewelry, luggage, and > interesting items from all over the world. Ooooh, this sounds interesting! What's the address? Do they have an 800 number I can call to get a catalogue? Thanks! Gale ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:50:53 -0400 From: eliz@world.std.com (Elizabeth Lear) Subject: Re: Experience w/J. Peterman? I love their catalogs, too. I know that the prices are quite high, but I have also seen that the quality is very high, too. I have one of the "Jefferson" shirts that still looks very good after three years of steady use, and my ex has one of the riding coats that has stood up very well after eight years. One neat point is their return policy: you can pretty much return anything at any time in any condition, and they will replace it. ...eliz ------------------------------ From: KTRuby@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 10:52:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Herringbone Weave I'm sure silk is not an appropriate fabric for a T-Tunic, but since we live in Southern California, I am more interested in the fact that it's a bit lighter than wool (still rather warm, but not as bad as wool) and I haven't found a rough or nubby woven wool herringbone. So you might say I'm more after the look and comfort than being worried about the fact that silk isn't appropriate. The drape is a little stiffer than I would like, but I guess I can't have everything. ------------------------------ From: Mrs C S Yeldham Date: 21 Apr 95 15:55:00 BST Subject: Cotton Wool In England 'wool' is a generic term for knitting wools (or yarns) and it does not imply anything about the fibre content. The derivation is obvious. However, there is a third modern usage of 'cotton wool' in England. This is the cotton wool used with cream to remove make-up, and I have no idea what the fibre content would be. It is occasionally pink and blue, but never red! Caroline Oscar was right! ------------------------------ From: Edward Wright Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 10:10:49 TZ Subject: RE: Linen (uh-oh!) | LINNEN or Linen. A name given to a sort of texture of interwoven threads, made | of flax, hemp, or cotton: of which there are many sorts, particularly cambrics | and muslins; the former being manufactured in several parts of Europe, | especially Flanders and Germany; the latter in the East Indies. My thought is that this might be a typesetting error. "Textile" would seem to make more sense in this particular context that "texture" does, and it's only off by two letters. | Because the author (Richard Rolt) calls linen a "texture" and mentions | flax, hemp, and cotton, how safe is it to assume when I read "linnen" in a | document of the period, it refers to a flax composed material rather than a | type of weave? I do know that linen was made from hemp as well as flax. To the best of my knowledge, there were no terms to distinguish between linen from hemp and linen from flax. | I know that "linen" became a generic term, but I didn't think it was | in general use by the 1750's. Anyone have any insight on this? Well, the ancient Greek word for cotton was xulina, which means "wood linen." Of course, that's about 2000 years earlier than the period you're talking about. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 14:00:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Gretchen Miller Subject: I"M GOING AWAY NEXT WEEK!!!! Folks, Sorry for the short notice on this, but I'm going to be away next week--April 22 through April 31 -- and unable to handle request for addition or removal. Therefore, if you want to be removed from the list, etc, PLEASE let me know by 6pm EDT TODAY!!!!!! Thanks! toodles, gretchen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 12:06:22 PST From: "Gail DeCamp" Subject: Re: hemming cloaks Thanks to NeenH and everyone else who responded to my query about cloaks. I ended up lining it with some spare black cotton (yeah, yeah, I know) for this reason: I sewed the quarter-circles of the wool part together, handed it to the gentleman who will wear it, and said, "try this on. Will it work? Is it long enough?" It was around his shoulders for approximately three seconds before he'd whipped it off, wrapped it around his left arm, seized a sword, and assumed a guard position (both arms out, side-on to an attacker). "Yeah," he said happily, "it works great!" Needless to say, I was sorta surprised. (*I* never use *my* clothes for target practice!) I'm pretty reluctant to line a cloak with silk if it's likely to be skewered. Unless anybody on the list knows how to render silk un-skewerable..... Thanks for all the help. Gail DeCamp decampg@smtplink.ngc.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 12:29:04 -0700 (PDT) From: "erin k. gault" Subject: linen For those people who want to find linen really cheap: I was at Hancock's the other day in Lakewood, WA and they had linen (100%) for 7.77/yd. That wasn't the bolt price either. So, if you buy the whole bolt I think it was real close to 7 or maybe even less. I can't remember. The bolt was full so I wasn't about to buy the whole thing. There were quite a few different colors also. I think Hancock's is known as Minnesota Fabrics or something like that elsewhere. Hope someone can use this info! ***************************************************************** * Erin K. Gault Evergreen State College * * Eglentyne de Gaulle College of Witt's Haven * * Barony of Glymm Mere, Kingdom of An Tir * * e-mail: gaulte@elwha.evergreen.edu * ***************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 18:08:34 -0400 From: longwave@mail.north.net (E. Cheung) Subject: Re: Breast binding Dee Wilson wrote: >My topic of research is the history of social norms as applied to domestic >health and medicine for the period 1750 - 1960. My interest for many years has been social change and one aspect of this is how it affects fashion. In particular, how changes in natural population growth affects fashion. >I offer two points for discussion : > >1. During my period of study it is the 1920s that made the flat chested >look fashionable. Unfortunately, your study covers over 200 years and you seem to end just at 1960, when another period of flat chestedness was coming into fashion. May I suggest that your study of the 1920's and flat chestedness due to breast binding are two seperate, but related issues. In the 1960's, the baby-boomers were just coming of age. Since they were young, it was natural that the breasts were smaller, and since there were so many young, it was natural that small breasts were a fashion trend. Everyone wanted the "Twiggy" look. I have developed statistical evidence that in the 1920's, another baby-boom was coming of age. Ever heard of the young "flapper?" For the same reasons as in the 1960's, the breasts were smaller and they became the fashion trend. This 1920's baby-boom cannot be found in the fertility statistics, which I believe is due to census errors, but there are population statistics pointing this way. If you are interested, I can email the sources to you, which I have used in my book conerning such things. To close off, let me quote a recent article from the New York Times Service reprinted in the Sat. April 8, 1995, Globe and Mail (Canada's national newspaper) entitled, "What they're wearing in the way of breasts this year", by Natalie Angier. She writes: "Not very long ago, the waif was in and breasts were passe. And before that, very big breasts were in; concerns about breasts implants had not yet surfaced, and plastic surgeons were slapping them in women's chests at the rate of tens of thousands a year." "For a long time before that, breasts were not really a fashion issue at all. Models didn't have breasts. They were supposed to be willowy and delicate, to show off the flow of the clothes." "Now, nearly all models somehow manage to defy physiology and have plump breasts on slender bodies, the contrast between bust and waist made more extreme through the use of corsettes, bustiers, and the Wonderbra and its many knockoffs (or knockons)." "Toward the end of the 16th century, says author Anne Hollander, a thick waist and tiny breasts were deemed ideal, and the flappers of the twenties bound their busts into androgynous billboards of modernity and liberation." ... etc. Edward email: press@longwave.com The Longwave and Social Cycles Resource Centre telnet: torfree.net, login: guest, at the prompt type: go longwave ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 18:23:42 -0400 From: longwave@mail.north.net (E. Cheung) Subject: Re: Bloomers/ Calif women >>From the Dame Shirley letters >written in the Calif mining camps >to her sister Molly in Massachusetts >between Sept 1851 and Nov 1852 >(Louisa Amelia Knapp Smith Clapp) > > (excerpted from Letter 10th) > One of the deceased, was the husband of an American lady-lecturess > of the most intense description, and a strong-minded "Bloomer" on > the broadest principles. > Thanks for posting the quote Cynthia - I found it extremely interesting! email: press@longwave.com The Longwave and Social Cycles Resource Centre telnet: torfree.net, login: guest, at the prompt type: go longwave ------------------------------ End of Volume 288 -----------------------