From: Gretchen Miller Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 19:05:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 294, 5/4/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 294, May 4, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! ------------------------------ Topics: Italian Ren costuming resource Obi as corset Call for Papers: East Central Theater Conference (USA) On language evolution ISO: Schools for historic costume and dance Cothardie pattern answers ISO: Info on making tents, and 18th C midwives Instructions for subscribing to various lists The Red dress from "Age of Innocence" Silk from Hong Kong/What to order Introduction Question and answer: Opinions on Old World Enterprises suit pattern Naturally colored cotton ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 May 95 13:15:36 PST From: Kat@grendal.rain.com (June Russell) Subject: Re: Italian Ren. :Recently, after a conversation with a fellow costuming friend of :mine, I learned of a book on Italian Renaissance costuming by a woman :whose last name is Beer-barri(sp?) I very much want to track down :this book as well as any other that deals specifically with Italian :Ren. costuming. Any suggestions out there? : Elizabeth Birbari, _Dress in Italian Painting 1460-1500_, John Murray Publishing, 1975. Kat Kateryne of Hindscroft ( June Russell ) pacifier.rain.com!grendal!kat kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 95 18:55:36 EDT From: "Sara Maene" Subject: Re: Japanese OBI/Corsetry In a book called "Make Your Own Japanese Clothes" (can't remember the author's name), I remember reading that part of the function of the enormous women's obi is to give the body a cylindrical shape. In combination with the narrow kimono with long rectangular sleeves and the rounded hairstyle, this produces a very geometrical effect, which is harmonious with the Japanese aesthetic sense. Consequently, it is often worn _very_ tight, flattening more voluptuous figures and filling in the waistline. The obi can also be a very costly part of the outfit; even though the invisible parts can be made of a less expensive material, the richness of the visible parts can be a means of displaying the wealth of the wearer. I also vaguely remember something (from the same book) about the origin of the complex knot in the obi. It had to do with a long-ago fire in a city; many of the fleeing women lost their obi because of the loose knots they tied them in then, and so the complex knots were born! Sorry this is so vague, but I'm working from memory here! The last time I wore the full outfit was when I was about eight or so, and I wore the obi loose (I think it was for Halloween dress-up or something like that), but in all the photographs of my Japanese grandmother (who was from a wealthy family and seems to have been a fashionable woman in her younger days), the obi looks very tight and solid, almost bullet-proof. Perhaps it functions also as a back support? --Sara ------------------------------ From: CLARK@SGCCVA.SUNYGENESEE.CC.NY.US Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 21:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CALL FOR PAPERS ECTC - EAST CENTRAL THEATRE CONFERENCE A CALL FOR PAPERS, PANELS, AND PROGRAMS 1996 CONVENTION PROGRAM *THEATRE FOR A NEW AGE* The 1996 Convention will be held at the Radisson Plaza Hotel at Mark Center, Alexandria, VA on February 16, 17, and 18, 1996 ECTC is looking for panels, workshops, performances, papers or presentations that are in any area of theatre; production, performance, history, criticism or theory. For an application form and further information please contact: Margaret M. Tocci, Program Chair 6133 Redwood Lane Phone: 703-960-7713 Alexandria, VA. 22310 FAX: 703-317-0568 ECTC is a regional organization that includes the states of New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland and the District of Columbia. Our members are from all area of the theatre; High School, College/University, Community, Professional and special interest areas. Thomas R. Clark Genesee Community College Batavia, NY 14020 716-343-0055 x6448 e-mail clark@sgccva.sungenesee.cc.ny.us ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 21:00:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Rhodry Subject: Re: sigh, cotton redux > Such distinctions did not arise until grammars were > written. In the age we are talking about, there were no Englsih > grammar books -- grammar was Latin, not English -- and people used > words freely, without regard to whether they were adjectives or nouns. > Everyone understood that when you said "the " you meant "the > thing," just as they still do today. > > Just as there was no formal grammar in the period we're > discussing, there was no standardized spelling or puntuation, either. > People spelled words the way the words sounded to them and used > punctuation marks when they thought they needed them. No one who is > familar with the English language of this period (as opposed to the > English language you were taught in school) would attach any > significance to the absence of a punctuation mark. I vaguely recall being taught that the American founding fathers chose to not create a language regulating institution. Stating that England and France had these institution keeping the purity of their languages, and that they wished to allow American English to take its own, unguided course. This implies to me that an institution had been established in England for quite some time. Does any one have any documentation either way? Rhodry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 23:23:08 -0500 (CST) From: Cindy Johnson Subject: Higher Learning Hello All! I have come to that crossroads in life where I find myself constantly thinking, "Now tell me again why I majored in a practical field instead of one I loved?". Being assured a constant source of income no longer seems to be an issue. I have discovered that it is true - no amount of money can make you happy if you don't enjoy the way you are making the money. So, where is this leading to? I wish to consult with these two extremely knowledgeable groups on a return to school. My desire is to abandon the life of a CPA and become a graduate student in pursuit of a Ph.D. in Historical Costume and Historical Dance (the practical side of me says that this will not only combine the two fields I so enjoy, but also make me more marketable). And I always have that practical field to fall back on if times are lean. My question for the repositories of knowledge known as h-costume and rendance is what schools would you recommend and what are their strengths and weaknesses? I am willing to consider schools outside the USA, and am mainly (but not exclusively) interested in Europe and its various former and present colonies. Awaiting The Word of the Oracle, Cindy Johnson Houston, TX USA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 21:59:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: Cotehardie Pattern Question On Mon, 1 May 1995, Colette Goodyear wrote: > A quick question concerning Medieval Miscellanea's > Cotehardies and Sideless Surcoats Pattern (Number 21): > > I have the pattern but the sewing instructions are missing. > I can easily sew the cotehardie without instructions but I'm > wondering about the gores that are let into the skirt. > You can cut either 2 or 4 of them. Since I like full skirts, > I plan on cutting 4. Two go into the side seams. Do the other > two also go into the side seams or do they go into the center > front and center back seams? I have no familiarity with the particular pattern, but it is a VERY authentic thing to do for that era to put cores into the center front and back. In fact, in the diagrams of extant garments from the medieval period, if you only put gores in one place, it was the center rather than the sides. Heather Rose Jones ------------------------------ From: LDulin@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 10:11:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Experience w/J. Peterman? There's a Peterman outlet (the only one) in Chattanooga TN. The quality of their stuff is amazing. I have been very pleased with the items I have found there on sale. Leslie in Tennessee ------------------------------ From: Ladyspnr@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 11:15:56 -0400 Subject: Off the subject question If possible, I'd like to pose two quick questions since many of you seem to be involved with living history or in the field of history. 1) I would like to sew a larger tent for re-enactments (1700's), but have been unable to find patterns. I'd like to move up to a small wall tent from my current wedge tent. Any suggestions? 2) This really doesn't involve historical clothing, but I'd like to ask anyway. Does anyone know where I could find information on the role of a midwife in the late 1700's? Thanks for bearing with me on this. I have run out of ideas where to look for this information and hope someone out there might be able to help. Thanks! Karri ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 1995 12:40:31 -0400 From: Elizabeth Lear >Wearable Art List >Submissions to the list: wearable@lunch.engr.sgi.com regular version adds/removes: wearable-request@lunch.engr.sgi.com digest version Adds/removes: wearable-digest-request@lunch.engr.sgi.com > Real, live person: owner-wearable@lunch.engr.sgi.com >----------------------- >fantasy costume list: f-costume-request@lunch.engr.sgi.com >I think for all of them, you just type subscribe in the body of >the message. For any mailing list run @lunch.engr.sgi.com, you should follow one of these: 1. send mail to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com with the message subscribe listname where 'listname' is the name of the mailing list. OR 2. Send mail to listname-request@lunch.engr.sgi.com (where 'listname' is again the name of the mailing list) with only the message subscribe If you add your real name in there, it won't work. ...eliz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 95 10:08:52 PDT From: Eleanor Farrell Subject: "Age of Innocence" gown Alexandra Ohlson asked about a red dress Michelle Pfeiffer wears in the film: If you haven't already done so, pick up a copy of the book published about this film: "The Age of Innocence" Martin Scorsese and Jay Cocks New Market Press, New York, 1993 ISBN 1-55704-143-1 (hard cover) 1-55704-142-3 (paperback) There are several color photos of this particular gown in this book, one of which is a full-length shot. The rest of the book is gorgeous, too! Ellie Farrell ------------------------------ From: Edward Wright Date: Tue, 2 May 95 12:27:56 TZ Subject: Re: Japanese OBI/Corsetry | I also vaguely remember something (from the same book) about the origin of the | complex knot in the obi. It had to do with a long-ago fire in a city; many of | the fleeing women lost their obi because of the loose knots they tied them in | then, and so the complex knots were born! There is not one all-purpose Obi knot, but a wide variety of knots based on social status, occassion, etc. | Sorry this is so vague, but I'm working from memory here! The last time I wore | the full outfit was when I was about eight or so, and I wore the obi loose | (I think it was for Halloween dress-up or something like that), but in all the | photographs of my Japanese grandmother (who was from a wealthy family and seems | to have been a fashionable woman in her younger days), the obi looks very | tight and solid, almost bullet-proof. A woman's Obi was often stiffened with cardboard to give the desired cylindrical effect. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 14:47:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Jennifer Kubenka Subject: Fabrics in Hong Kong Greetings fellow costume enthusiasts! I have a co-worker here who is going leaving for a trip to Hong Kong next week, and she has offered to buy (with my money, of course) me some silks. This is an opportunity NOT to be missed, in my estimation, as I am certainly not going to Hong Kong any time soon. Now I must ask the question: What do I tell her to get? Most of my costuming interests are Renaissance and Elizabethan stuff(right now I am mostly doing Renaissance things), and I would love to get some lengths appropriate for these types of garments. What about silk brocades? would this be a wise thing for me to tell her look for? I am totally at a loss as to what to ask her to look for and/or purchase, so please help me on this! Excited about the possibility of getting some long lengths of silks to work with, Jennifer D. Kubenka Series Authority/Monographs Cataloger Fondren Library Southern Methodist University Dallas, Texas ------------------------------ From: M2D@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 19:57:32 -0400 Subject: Intro My wife and I just recently got hold of your address and have now joined this mailing list, and from what I have seen on my first two volumns, we are in heaven! We are both Amer. Rev.War/ Amer. & English Civil War reenactors and are always looking for pertinant information to help us improve our impressions. So far we're batting a thousand! Thanx again! Matt & Penny DiPalma PS-Will post more when we get a feel for appropriate topics. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 20:39:06 -0500 From: Allison Welch Subject: Old World Enterprises Male Suit I am considering purchasing the 1830 Romantic Male Suit pattern offered by Old World Enterprises. It consists of a frock coat, narrow pants and lined vest. Has anyone used this pattern? If so, could you relay your experiences? Thanks, -Allison Welch (awbm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 19:09:55 -0700 From: knowles@netcom.com (Sheryl Knowles) Subject: Re: Japanese OBI/Corsetry I grew up in Japan (tho I am not of Japanese origin) and then returned to Japan as a foreign-exchange student during college. My childhood recollection of kimono and obi are that they bear no relationship to the corseting discussion. However, my adult experiences with kimono and obi - having a figure that was no longer cylindrical ... and indeed was, even then, assuredly plump - might. Before I bought my own kimono, my Japanese mother dressed me in her "girlhood" kimono and obi. The cylinder _is_ the proper shape for the body beneath same so, for the first time in my plump experience, I was padded! Padded above the behind and around the waist and around the breasts to smooth me into the necessary cylinder. The obi then ties it all together - firmly but not necessarily tightly (the padding provided the 'terra forming' so the obi did not have to perform that function (as some corsets do). As point of fact, if the obi had to do 'terraforming, I do not see how a cylinder could be achieved. I find my 'Beathan corset comfortable (as long as the armhole is cut correctly) and I found obi comfortable; both provide a measure of backsupport --- and in the associated garb, both require that one _not_ lean back in a chair. :-) On the other hand, the leg constriction provided by the narrow skirts (and if you are truely dressed, you are wearing at least 3 'skirts') of the kimono _do_ impede striding ... which may be why the old prints of working women show them hitching the kimono skirts up to free the legs when they wanted to run (a thing, of course, unnecessary to the high-class woman :-) ---Sheryl Knowles knowles@netcom.com Los Altos, California ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 21:50:16 -0700 From: Alison Kondo Subject: Old World Enterprises My experience with the OWD 1870's Walking Dress was extremely negative. I've got a fair amount of sewing experience, but the pattern drafting (even after measuring me, the pattern & making size adjustment where needed) was so...unique...(words are failing me) that I could not get a satisfactory result. I've heard similar stories from several other costumers, both male & female & I'd really suggest trying a pattern from a different company. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 95 09:51:31 BST From: Alan Braggins Subject: Re: "mutant" cotton > area that cultivated the "mutant" cotton which has slight natural tints > of blues, green, & browns which has recently become fashionable in New Scientist magazine had an article on this fairly recently. My understanding was that its not so much that the coloured varieties are mutants, as that wild cotton varied in colour but white varieties were selected for widespread cultivation. But I may be misremembering - I'll see if I can find a copy to check. ------------------------------ From: "Heather L. Garvey" Subject: Re: Fabrics in Hong Kong Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 09:50:54 -0500 (CDT) * I have a co-worker here who is going leaving for a trip to Hong Kong next * week, and she has offered to buy (with my money, of course) me some silks. Got a boyfriend on a business trip in Singapore as we speak. :) On his last trip to Beijing, he brought me back the most magnificent dusty rose silk... I'm almost finding it obscene to cut it. :) * Now I must ask the question: What do I tell her to get? * Most of my costuming interests are Renaissance and Elizabethan * stuff(right now I am mostly doing Renaissance things), and I would love * to get some lengths appropriate for these types of garments. If you don't have a pattern in mind, making length estimations can be scary. I have my SO get me no less than 6 yards any more. That's enough for a cotehardie, according to patterns and other estimates I've seen. * What about silk brocades? would this be a wise thing for me to tell her * look for? Only if she knows what that means. I had to tell my SO not to get me anything with a pattern any more, because one green-on-green pattern was almost little zebra stripes. :) He doesn't know what I want, and I don't want him to think I'm disappointed 'cause he has to make some guesses. So I just told him 'solid, not-too-garish, natural colors, of the same weight as that gorgeous rose stuff you got for me'. :) Your best bet is to send her off armed with color swatches - maybe not the whole set, but at least a representative cross-section. (Reds like this, blues like this, no neon colors, etc...) Make sure she knows what 'brocades' or 'velvets' are, if that's what you are looking for. And always look THRILLED by whatever she brings you. :) -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Heather Garvey Phone: (708) 632-3790 Motorola Cellular, ITS, Rm 2231 E-mail: garvey@cig.mot.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of Volume 294 -----------------------