From: "Philip Edward Cutone, III" Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 09:47:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 309, 5/19/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 309, May 19, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Please note that I am not the usual maintainer. If there is a problem with the digest please let me know (and forgive a few blunders.... :) this digest covers all messages through May 15, not appearing in previous digests. Enjoy! Filip ------------------------------ Topics: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 298, 5/10/95 costume resources in Bath 19th c dress patterns 14th C ermine ?hose? 1790 dress; earlier fabric 14th C ermine ?hose? 19th cent.: Sizes, corsets, patterns Authentic Scottish Accessories ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 09:29:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Karen K. Adams" Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest, Volume 298, 5/10/95 Reply-To: h-costume+@andrew.cmu.edu On Thu, 11 May 1995, Tim Allison wrote: > Danine > Re your question about batiste. Janet Burgess of Amazon Drygoods has a > fabric that she says is the closest modern equivalent to regency-era > muslin. She has also mentioned that if it were possible to guarantee enough > sales, it might be possible to get the original fabric made up. So if we > can all get enough costumers interested--- > Carol Mitchell > > Carol Mitchell > Caroline Richenda of the White Rose > Count me in! I would be very interested in getting some of this material: Karen Adams (315)637-7341 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 14:35:49 +0100 (BST) From: J M V Rayner Subject: costume resources in Bath Reply-To: h-costume+@andrew.cmu.edu The Bath costume shop still exists, though it is no longer a separate shop. I can't recall the name, though we've bought enough there. The shop is now a group of stalls in Bartlett Street Antiques Market. Only a couple of minutes' walk from the Museum. Well worth a look. Jeremy Rayner +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dr Jeremy M. V. Rayner School of Biological Sciences University of Bristol Woodland Road Bristol BS8 1UG U.K. tel. 0117 928 8111, messages 0117 928 7476, fax 0117 925 7374 e-mail J.M.V.Rayner@bristol.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 09:02:01 CDT From: "Cindy Abel" Subject: 19th c dress patterns Reply-To: h-costume+@andrew.cmu.edu This is in no way an ad, but for those interested parties, I discovered over the weekend while looking in my new Amazon Drygoods pattern catalog, the c1838 dress in the May "Victoria" in the white and pink rose pattern is probably the "Lowell Mill Girl " dress with optional cape. There is also from an English company(graded, not-to-scale)patterns for Charlotte Bronte's going away dress(after her 1854 marriage) and a c1792 dress reportably worn by an aristocratic lady whilst escaping from France to England during the Terror. An interesting note states that though the dress is clearly early 1790's in cut it was made from a silk(brocade, I think)dating from much earlier. Cindy Abel Health Sciences Library Creighton University 2500 California Plaza Omaha NE 68178-0400 Phone: 402-280-5144 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 10:38:58 -0400 From: Joe Marfice Subject: 14th C ermine ?hose? Reply-To: h-costume+@andrew.cmu.edu Dearest HistCostListians: I recently noted an oddity in an early-1400's drawing of "The City of Canterbury" (actually an illustration of the "General Prolog" of _The_ _Tales_of_C._), which apparently appeared in an edition of Lydgate's poetry. The Squyre appears to be wearing ermine ?canions?/?breeches?/ ?upper-hose? The garment clearly has a common artistic convention for ermine, and extends from underneath the cotehardie to the knees, where it ends in a straight hem or seam. From there, the hose continue to the shoes. The upper & lower leg garments (or single garment) are both fitted. In my knowledge canions did not appear in this period & breeches would not have been worn by the upper class in any circumstance. Hose were de facto what the noblemen wore. (E.g.--while hunting, the contemporary _Hunting_Book_ of Gaston Phoebes shows the high lords wearing thigh-high leather buskins over hose). The Squyre, btw, is the son of the Knight; he is epitomized as a fastidious fashion-follower. The characters in this drawing are often readily recognizable even without the labels, although they are not precisely dressed per the _Tales'_ descriptions. My guesses (believable & not): 1. He is wearing ermine, real-fur canions. 2. He is wearing canions painted with an ermine pattern. (But has anyone ever seen actual garments adorned with the ermine _pattern_, in period? Shields & cote-armour, sure, but civilian garments?) 3. He is wearing parti-colour hose, patterned ermine above the knees. 4. The artist made it up. 5. The pattern isn't ermine at all, you silly twit, it's ___ (please supply your own text). Any guesses or knowledge as to what this fellow was wearing??? | Broom, at The Lady Perrine | aka Joe Marfice | Ministerium honor est. \|/ which means "I'll show you mine if you show me your...source." /|\ 513-222-2330 233 Perrine Street //|\\ af289@dayton.wright.edu Dayton (my fayre citee), OH 45410 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 10:28:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Deb Subject: RE: 1790 dress; earlier fabric Reply-To: h-costume+@andrew.cmu.edu > An interesting note states that though the dress is clearly >early 1790's in cut it was made from a silk(brocade, I think)dating >from much earlier. Just proves that women have some basic habits which remain constant over the years! I know *I* have a LOT of fabric stashed away, which was bought with XXX in mind but my enthusiasm waned and XXX never materialized (no pun intended!). And if it was a brocaded silk, I'd hang onto it and pass it on to my grandkids, if necessary, until the right occasion appeared to finally sew something from it. Besides, I also read that the fabric was the most expensive part of the garment, with labor being very cheap even if you DID pay someone else to make the garment. The ratio has changed today, but we still hang onto our "pet fabrics" (we even had a thread on "pet fabrics" a while back, unless that was another list). Deb Baddorf baddorf@fnal.gov ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 95 11:28:50 EST From: "KATHLEEN NORVELL" Subject: Re: 14th C ermine ?hose? Reply-To: h-costume+@andrew.cmu.edu Broom, is there a book or source one can use to check this illustration out? It's hard to picture it from a verbal (or written) description. I'll think about it, but I'd really like to see a picture of it. Thanks. Kathleen kathleen@anstec.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 10:00:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: 14th C ermine ?hose? Reply-To: h-costume+@andrew.cmu.edu On Mon, 15 May 1995, Joe Marfice wrote: > I recently noted an oddity in an early-1400's drawing of "The City of > Canterbury" (actually an illustration of the "General Prolog" of _The_ > _Tales_of_C._), which apparently appeared in an edition of Lydgate's > poetry. The Squyre appears to be wearing ermine ?canions?/?breeches?/ > ?upper-hose? The garment clearly has a common artistic convention for > ermine, and extends from underneath the cotehardie to the knees, where it > ends in a straight hem or seam. From there, the hose continue to the > shoes. The upper & lower leg garments (or single garment) are both > fitted. > > In my knowledge canions did not appear in this period & breeches would > not have been worn by the upper class in any circumstance. Hose were > de facto what the noblemen wore. Well, they would have been wearing breeches _under_ their hose, but they wouldn't normally be showing during this period. > 3. He is wearing parti-colour hose, patterned ermine above the knees. > 4. The artist made it up. I'd go with one of the above. Parti-coloring is certainly a possibility. The question remains whether: a) real ermine would have been used, and the artist was representing this (unlikely from a materials-performance point of view, in my opinion) b) actual representations of ermine spots by means of painting or embroidery would have been used, and the artist was representing this or c) the idea of representing an ermine pattern on hose was not something that would have been actually implemented, but was something that artists could imagine and might represent As further evidence for either b) or c), I can find several late 15th century Burgundian paintings showing hose that have patterns marked on them in gold: usually a broad band around the thigh edged with parallel lines and filled with some sort of all-over design little tear-drops or flowers, sometimes incorporating a motto along one edge. Again, we have no way of knowing whether this is a representation of actual practice or simply an artistic convention, but if an actual practice then we have further evidence for the upper part of 15th century hose being decorated with an applied semey pattern. Heather Rose Jones ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 14:05:13 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hope A. Greenberg" Subject: 19th cent.: Sizes, corsets, patterns Reply-To: h-costume+@andrew.cmu.edu Hi - I wasn't going to mention this until it was a bit more substantial but, given the recent discussions on both sizing and patterns (and corsetting) I thought I'd let you take a peek. I'm working on a Web project of Godey's Lady's Book, that most wonderful 19th cent. American women's magazine. The full extent of the project has not yet been determined but there are a few images that you can see now. They include several color plates and one item called the Practical Dress Instructor. The one shown is from the July 1855 issue. It is an engraving, a pattern and a description of the Coraco Eugenie. This will eventually be linked to my regular page but in the meantime you can check it out at: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/godey The illustrations are in the section: Godey's Lady's Book: The 1850s, List of Illustrations. ----------------- Hope Greenberg Hope.Greenberg@uvm.edu Academic Computing http://moose.uvm.edu/~hag Univ. of Vermont Come visit The Hall's latest addition: Burlington, VT 05405 The Ovid Project ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 95 11:52:59 PDT From: DGC3%Rates%FAR@bangate.pge.com Subject: re:RE: 1790 dress; earlier fabric Reply-To: h-costume+@andrew.cmu.edu According to _Fabric of Society_ (charming book published by Laura Ashley, based on the collection at Platt Hall in Manchester), 18th c. fabrics were so expensive that they habitually were "unpicked" and redone in the current style. So many museum examples will be noted, fabric c. 1725, dress style of 1785, for example. Consequently the gowns are sewn with large stitches, using the square of the fabric, to be easily unpicked, while linens exhibit very fine needlework. The book also mentions that women even bequeathed lengths of fabric in their wills. Talk about your fabric stash! --Danine ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Danine Cozzens Internet: dgc3@pge.com Pacific Gas and Electric Company San Francisco, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------[Reply - Original Message]---------------------- Sent by:Deb > An interesting note states that though the dress is clearly >early 1790's in cut it was made from a silk(brocade, I think)dating >from much earlier. Just proves that women have some basic habits which remain constant over the years! I know *I* have a LOT of fabric stashed away, which was bought with XXX in mind but my enthusiasm waned and XXX never materialized (no pun intended!). And if it was a brocaded silk, I'd hang onto it and pass it on to my grandkids, if necessary, until the right occasion appeared to finally sew something from it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 13:46:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Tracy Miller Subject: Re: 14th C ermine ?hose? Reply-To: h-costume+@andrew.cmu.edu On Mon, 15 May 1995, Heather Rose Jones wrote: > As further evidence for either b) or c), I can find several late 15th > century Burgundian paintings showing hose that have patterns marked on > them in gold: usually a broad band around the thigh edged with parallel > lines and filled with some sort of all-over design little tear-drops or > flowers, sometimes incorporating a motto along one edge. Again, we have > no way of knowing whether this is a representation of actual practice or > simply an artistic convention, but if an actual practice then we have > further evidence for the upper part of 15th century hose being decorated > with an applied semey pattern. > Could these by chance be garters? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 15:19:06 -0700 From: janet@astron.berkeley.edu (janet henry 601) Subject: Authentic Scottish Accessories Reply-To: h-costume+@andrew.cmu.edu For those who were looking for Scottish Patterns, the latest issue of Threads Magazine (July, 1995) mentioned a Folkwear Scottish Kilt pattern and addresses for authentic accessories. The accessories addresses are: Ann Stewart, Rt.1, PO Box 43, Leeds, NY 12451, (518)622-8383; Dunedin Scottish, 5402 Airport Blvd, Tampa, Fl 33634, (800)237-5836; and Pipers Cove, 212 Kearney Ave, PO Box 444, Kearny, NJ 07032, (800)447-1737. Good Luck, Janet Henry (jhenry@astron.berkeley.edu) ------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of Volume 309 -----------------------