From: Gretchen Miller Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 17:01:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 317, 6/2/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 317, June 2, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! ------------------------------ Topics: Woolen vs vorsted Renaissance needlework Question and answer: Handmade Lace History: what we know and what's lost to us Blackwork book ISO: Info on 11th-12th C headdresses ISO: Costumes for "Daughter of the Regiment" Wide-awakes Midwife's tale ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 17:20:42 -0400 From: Beverly Roden Subject: Woolen vs worsted wool Regarding your post looking for a special kind of fabric - first, you made an error in your premice. Woolen and worsted refers to the method of preparation the sheep's fleece undergoes in preparation for spinning, not to the length of the sheep's fleece. Woolen yarn is combed with 'wool cards'. There are two, and the wool is placed on one card and combed by the other in a stroking motion. You move the wool from one card to another, and repeat the process until the wool is soft and airy looking (it looks a lot like a fluffy flat of lint from the dryer lint screen (only LOTS fluffier...). The object of carding is to open and 'fluff' up the fibers in preparation for spinning. Wool cards look much like a dog or cat brush - a wooden handle, rubber back, and lots of short, bent bristles made of metal. Worsted yarn is prepared with 'wool combs' Imagine 2 wooden 'paddles' - each with a type of comb called a 'hair pick'. Now imagine those picks as long, straight & pointy - 6 or more inches long. Some combs have 1 - 2 rows of these, some many more (there is a patron saint of wool combers who was martyred on wool combs!). As in carding, you put wool on one of the sets of combs (one is usually bolted to a fixed point for larger combs). You comb with a similar motion, but the object here is to get all the fibers lined up in one direction, and to remove any shorter fibers, so that the worsted yarn will be of a consistant fiber length (that fiber length is called 'staple'. Long is good!) Woolen yarn is more fluffy and "crunchy". You can find good examples of fine English woolens at good yarn shops in the US. This is because of the combination of varying lengths of the fibers that may have gone into the spinning of the yarn, as well as having the fibers going every which-way in the preparation for spinning. Worsted yarn is (generally) more smooth - due to the fibers being of equal length and all laying in the same direction for spinning. (this is really going somewhere!) - If you purchase modern, commercially available wool cloth, and it just says "Wool" - it may not be a worsted- weight cloth. Modern cloth has not been finished in the historical fashion (certainly not in the medieval fashion!). You can "full" your store-bought wools by washing them in HOT water with soap, and rinsing in cold, then throwing them in the dryer. THEY WILL SHRINK! They will also full, and provide you with a lovely nap. The looser the weave of the fabric, the more it will shrink, and the nicer the nap. You can also raise that nap (a little) by brushing it (lightly) with a dog or cat brush. This would simulate the finishing that was done in the medieval period of brushing the cloth with fuller's teasels (NOT the teasels you can find by the side of the road - they are MUCH too fragile to do you any good, and do not have the little hooks on the end that fuller's teasels have.) You can still do some good with the above process on worsted weight wools. Be prepared - try a swatch that you have pre-measured first. You can also simulate the above process by doing the "weaver's stomp" - put the fabric in the bathtub with soap and warm water and walk all over it! Beverly Roden - a spinner and weaver of a variety of fibers ac508@dayton.wright.edu (Alexis MacAlister in the sca) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 15:41:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Cannon Subject: Re: needlwork/renaissance question (fwd) I believe the lady who asked the question regarding blackwork was on this list. Here is one more person's 2 pence worth...not mine...I am but the messenger.--Carol ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Wed, 31 May 95 13:31:56 +0100 >From: Phyllis Gilmore Does anyone know if cross-stitch or anything similar was done >in England around 1550? > Blackwork, because of its emphasis on geometrical designs and counted stitches, is generally treated as a form of counted cross stitch. Very, very Elizabethan stuff here. This type of embroidery was generally done on edges of collars and sleeves, for example, and sometimes much larger areas, such as entire sleeves. There are some related forms (such as Assisi work) that may be period (I've heard arguments). Also, I have noticed the use of cross stitches in period or near- period needlepoint (specifically, some of Mary Queen of Scots' work and in some unrelated chair seats at a nearby museum)--so far, mostly used (apparently) as a quick way to fill in backgrounds. Lots of other kinds of embroidery were done, and cross stitches are really just another embroidery stitch. Because of the context in question, I'd suggest she look for books on blackwork and concentrate, for now, on collars and cuffs. You might even also want to repost the message to rec.arts.textiles.needlework because there are a number of highly knowledgeable folks there, too. ****************************************** SCA: Philippa de Ecosse, Lyondemere, Caid mka: Phyllis Gilmore, Santa Monica and Torrance, CA My opinions are my own, unless donated. All contributions welcome. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 15:45:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Cannon Subject: Re: ATTN: P. Sheryl: needlwork/renaissance question (fwd) Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 15:47:36 -0400 From: Fred and Dee Wolke : Could one of you good gentles, perhaps Lady Deonara Ridenow, help : P_Sheryl@kcpl.lib.mo.us with your knowledge/expertise? Thanks.--Grannia : ---------- Forwarded message ---------- : Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 9:23:24 -0500 (CDT) : From: P_SHERYL@KCPL.LIB.MO.US : I have a question that I hope someone on this list can help me with. : I want to do some decorative needlwork on my Renaissance Festival : costume and I was wondering when cross-stitch first came into use. : I am not particularly worried about strict authenticity of my costume : since the festival that I attend leans more toward the theatrical side : of things rather than the strictly authentic. However, I do like to : KNOW when I am being out-of-period if possible. Does anyone know if : cross-stitch or anything similar was done in England around 1550? : Thanks for the help. : Sheryl J. Nance : p_sheryl@kcpl.lib.mo.us Milady, You will be pleased to know that, to the best of my knowledge, cross stitch, blackwork, and pattern darning were common on clothing -- especially underclothing -- after the twelfth century. It was very common to decorate one's shift or chemise (or have it done for you) in this manner, especially around the collar, cuffs, and hem. Many folks in the SCA are more knowledgeable than I, so if their counsel differs, believe them and not me. Good luck and enjoy the Faire, Lady Dierdre Kyle ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS, TOO, SHALL PASS... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 15:47:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Cannon Subject: Re: ATTN: Sheryl : needlwork/renaissance question (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 18:07:11 -0400 >From: keikos@aol.com Cross-stitch was only one of many stitches used in the Renaissance. There are so many,and some of the others - satin stitch, outline stitch, and Holbein stitch, especially, are easier, and cover ground, in some cases, more quickly, why not use a combination? Laid metallics were also used -metallic threads or yarns couched on with small stitches in matching metallic or ground color threads. I find that a flat metallic yarn can be couched smoothly into curves and looks terrific for less effort than cross stitch, and with less distortion of the ground fabric. Holbein, which is an even running stitch which you then double back and re-stitch in the spaces was a very popular stitch - it looks approximately the same on both sides, is not very hard, and goes fast. Satin stitch is tedious to do, but it looks wonderful as a contrasting texture for filling in small spaces. Applique is also possible as a quick decoration when you need to fill in large areas. Also, beading (sewing on beads and pearls) was very much in vogue. Just about any embroidery stitch now in use was used back then, with a few others added on, somewhere in the world. Just go easy on using lace - real Renaissance lace is hard to find, and takes time to hunt for, and much, much too long to make, unless it is a passion of yours. Keiko S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 95 20:45:10 EDT From: Rebecca Handcock Subject: Lace >> using lace - real Renaissance lace is hard to find, and takes time to hunt >> for, and much, much too long to make, unless it is a passion of yours. What experiences do people have with hand made lace? I ama bobbin-lace maker, and my dream project is a 1780 dress where I replace all of the ruffles with hand-made bobbin lace. Do many people use the genuine article? I do know that it is very expensive and hard to fins, unless as the pervious message says, you make your own :-) Bec ------------------------------- Rebecca Handcock ---------------------------- GIS Labs, Department of Geography, University of Toronto handcock@geog.utoronto.ca || rebecca@gu.uwa.edu.au ------------ "Life is complex. It has real and imaginary parts" ------------- ------------------------------ From: BEARLEE1@aol.com Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 20:58:11 -0400 Subject: Authentic or not... I apologize in advance if I'm offending anyone at all. I enjoy this list immensely and have learned a lot more than I have contributed, but lately I find a sense of know-it-all creeping into some of the posts. I have been doing research and duplicating clothing of about the Rev. War times for some 25 years or more and the only thing I have come away "sure" of, is that I question everything that "could" have existed during the period with an eye toward believing that it probably did somewhere for some one... One thing I did discover early on in the New England area particularly, was that even though the onset of the War forced the men to "cooperate" with their neighbors, they still kept their "home fires" and the traditions which had forced them to our shores for some century and a half before the war, very separate. It was near the end of the war before many women met or even had knowledge of the habits and dress of their nearest neighbors. At late as 1781, and the battle of Groton Heights. The people on either side of the Thames River had never met. They lived totally different lives with very different beliefs and traditions. And their men worked diligently at seeing that they were not "exposed" to each other anymore than was absolutely necessary. And their woman's dress particularly could have been from the ocean rather than the river. Also when we come to common dress, we have to realize that little of it exists at all. We have nothing to go on except writings and "paintings" with with the artist could take a lot of license and usually did. And remember these were for the most part "male" interpretations. Woman who painted at all, tended to paint the flower vase or the fruit bowl. Fancy clothes exist, but the common folk, particularly with the shortages of the day, made dad's clothes for the son, mother's for the daughter, dad's shirt to mom's chemise, to the infant and then to the rug, or the luck piece was quilted. The very worn became rags, nappies (diapers) or other such female necessities. Clothes for the well to do were "loosely" made and the fabric cut as little as possible. Through that war and until several years after the W or 1812 clothes were made with the specific intent of there being taken apart and the fabric used again. It is hard to realize that labor was about a fifth the cost of the fabric, when it could be acquired at all. There are dresses that exist in the archives which can be authenticated at to the fabric being the dress of "such and such" a lady and yet nothing exists to tell us in what "form" the lady wore it or how many times it was reused. I found the safest thing to do with small "questions" about work clothes, was first, Did it exist at all at that time? Could it possibly have? And when all else failed, Would it have been "practical"... I can not tell you how many times I found out later that I had made the right choice, when I used this criteria. Nothing is foolproof... As one poster mentioned... when referring to size. ---She came from a small family...... How were people who stature is recorded, referred to the the writing of their contemporaries? Now, I'm preaching and that was not my intent. Just to make the point that the more I study and the more I learn, the more I realize that I know very little. And that saddly, though a lot can be gleaned from our history, there is a lot lost to us forever. So we must be all very careful not to say anything was definitely a fact.... And I think that is very important when reinactors are dealing with the public. I did a lot of work in the schools over the years and was alway very careful to say, "to the best of our knowledge" or "in the best of current study".......... enough and forgive an old lady.... Carole ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 19:44:32 -0700 From: s.nemeth@ix.netcom.com (Stella Nemeth) Subject: Blackwork Marie wrote: > >'kay. Here goes. The book 'Blackwork Embroider' by Elisabeth Geddes >and Moyra McNeill from Dover Publications is the book for you guys. It >has the history of blackwork, instructions for doing it, more >instructions for designing it, and portraits. > >Even better, this is a softcover book which retails for $4.95. Your >local bookstore should be able to get this for you - I got mine through >a Hallmark store. > This wonderful book was originally published in England 30 years ago, which is when I convinced the Boston Public Library to "buy me" a copy. It is a classic, and it ought to be one. Stella Nemeth ------------------------------ From: MSchlarbau@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 00:07:36 -0400 Subject: 11-12th Century Headresses Hello, can any one give me ideas or souces for 11th through 12th century headress for women, mainly English. Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 95 21:36:51 PDT From: aterry@teknowledge.com (Allan Terry) Subject: Handmade lace > What experiences do people have with hand made lace? I ama bobbin-lace maker, > and my dream project is a 1780 dress where I replace all of the ruffles > with hand-made bobbin lace. > Do many people use the genuine article? I do know that it is very expensive > and hard to fins, unless as the pervious message says, you make your own :-) > Bec I often use handmade Victorian and Edwardian lace when making reproductions--bobbin lace (my favorite), needle lace, filet, crochet, eyelet, tape laces, and anything else I can find. Also vintage machine lace. Because many Victorian laces imitated laces of earlier periods, it's quite possible to find Renaissance and 18th-century style ones. You can buy them at vintage clothing stores and shows. Bobbin and needle laces tend to be the most expensive types, but even so you can get quite nice ones for $10-$15/yard, sometimes less. Vintage lace is a lot more durable than it looks. (With the exception of black lace, which is almost always rotten because they used corrosive dyes.) However, if you intend to machine wash or machine dry clean the garment it's best to baste the lace on, rather than firmly sewing it, so you can remove it for separate hand washing. Also, it's best to wash the lace first--it's usually dirtier than it looks and even if used may not have been preshrunk. By the way, 18th-century shaped sleeve ruffles sometimes were mostly made of net with a bobbin lace edging. Fran Grimble ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 95 22:21:17 -0700 From: "Steven G. Posalski" Subject: Costumes I am a newly established stage manager/production manager for a small non-profit organization that specializes in operatic productions and is planning to produce a production of "La Fille du Regiment". Consequently, we are searching for accurate period costumes. Specifically we are looking for 18th century French military uniforms. Can you, or anyone, direct me to some places I might inquire about renting, borrowing, or obtaining designs to make the requisite costumes? A further complication is that several of the persons portraying soldiers are "husky" (what a nice euphemism, eh?) and will need larger than average sized uniforms. Thanks in advance to anyone who can advise or help. Contact me at sposalsk@slonet.org. ------------------------------ From: cole joan Subject: Re: needlework/renaissance question Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 06:12:16 -0500 (CDT) Another possibility on counted thread embroidery for the period: On Compuserve, in the LIVHIST forum, there are about a dozen GIF files of charts done by Timothy J. Mitchell of German 14th and 15th century pieces in the Victoria & Albert museum. These are counted brick/satin stitch, mostly lozenges and hexagons. I say brick/satin stitch... what is going on in these pieces is that the ground fabric is entirely covered by embroidery silks, in vertical stitches that each cover four threads of an evenweave ground. The ground fabrics are as coarse as 28 threads and get as fine as 54 threads or so. Apparently, Mr. Mitchell has also written up one of the pieces, a German bag, in a Tournaments Illustrated article (summer 1993, I believe). ------------------------------ From: VICKI@lib.uttyl.edu Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 8:56:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: wideawakes >From the Dictionary of American History: Wide-awakes, an antiforeign, anti-Catholic organization that flourished around 1850. In the presidential campaign of 1860, Republican marching clubs under this name arose everywhere. The first, in Hartford, Conn., wore black cambric capes when marching as protection against torch drippings. These were later replaced with oilcloth capes, which, with low-crowned, wide-brimmed hats, became the official Wide-Awake garb. >From Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable: Wideawake. Types of felt hat, with a low crown and wide brim, common in Victorian times. Punningly so called because they never had a "nap." Vicki Betts vicki@lib.uttyl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 9:25:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Deb Subject: RE: communication / trade Have you read "A Midwife's Tale" by Laurel Thatcher Ulrich (Crown Books still carries it; Pulitzer prize winner, and very readable)? It suggests that at least within a community there was a significant communication between women, and in fact a sub-network among the women. They carried on a whole economic/trade that only somewhat touched the male circles of commerce. It also suggests that most writing is from men's journals or works, and that the above women's network is never mentioned at all therein! The tale is from a woman's diary, from (I think) ~1781 to ~1820 in Maine. ------------------------------ End of Volume 317 -----------------------