From: Gretchen Miller Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 18:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: H-Costume Digest, Volume 319, 6/5/95 The Historic Costume List Digest, Volume 319, June 5, 1995 Send items for the list to h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu (or reply to this message). Send subscription/deletion requests and inquiries to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Enjoy! ------------------------------ Topics: Regency breeches and pantaloons Twill linen and silk velvet British wool and woollens Interest in genuine muslin Source for HMSO books History of covering the hair 1812 War Uniform Cape Anne historical society Braveheart Silk velvet and delicate woollens sources in Australia Authentic costumes for Le Fille du Regiment Please include address ISO: Costume patterns for Taming of the Shrew Signing off the list ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 1 Jun 95 14:20:15 PDT From: "SNORTON.US.ORACLE.COM" Subject: Regency Breeches and Pantaloons Kathleen asked: "Are the breeches you talked about in your posting the knee breeches or the long pantaloons? I've heard of *knee breeches* in tan or fawn, rather than white. I was referring to the long ones. I'd like to know where you've seen examples, just so I can add that to my "they always did such-and- such" shoot-down list." The breeches I was referring to are knee breeches. I did a quick search through my books and here is what I found. Revolution in Fashion 17115-1815 The Kyoto Costume Institute 1990 p. 77 Man's front-flap pantaloons (long) French 1790 Stripped cotton (Pencil thin white stripes on tan background) p. 94 English Breeches (knee length) 1815, Fawn Buckskin English Breeches (knee length) 1815, Cream Buckskin The mannequin is also wearing a dark red wool broadcloth tailcoat with a tailored collar, double-breasted The Age of Napoleon The Metropolitan Museum of Art 1989 2 Men's formal suits of uncut velvet, French 1805. The first is maroon with a subtle dot pattern (knee length breeches) The second mannequin wears a light grey-green stripped tailcoat and waistcoat with tan breeches (knee length) A History of Men's Fashion by Farid Chenoune 1993 Chap. 2 is all about the development of pants in the early 19th c. There is a good illustration of the painting "The Boulevard" done in 1819 by an unknown artist. The left man in the center front is wearing light brown pantaloons (long) and a dark brown tailcoat. Hope all this helps. Sally Norton snorton@US.oracle.com ------------------------------ From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Thu, 01 Jun 95 18:58:14 EST Subject: Re[2]: twill linen and silk velvet I know that G Street Fabrics in Rockville, MD carries both silk velvet and silk satin (the latter is to die for at about $70/yd!). If you ever want to fantasize for real, come d own (up?) and feel the stuff. Don't know the price on the silk velvet but could find out just for grins.;) Kathleen kathleen@anstec.com ------------------------------ From: Tracy023@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 19:23:10 -0400 Subject: Re: On the revolution of british wool Teresa, Thank you for that wonderful post on sheep in England. I have no idea where you can find the wool that you want, but I certainly learned a lot from the thread--one of the best--in content and tone--I've seen in a long time. Tracy ------------------------------ From: Edward Wright Date: Thu, 1 Jun 95 16:21:22 TZ Subject: Re: twill linen and silk velvet | Following this thread (no pun intended) I've come up with a new idea for | some enterprizing soul - sod sex phone lines! - how about a fabric fantasty | line! For $5 the first minute and $3 thereafter you can talk about your | fantasy fabrics with a sympathetic person. Well, the ads do say that you can talk about *anything*. (They lie, though. Those girls don't know beans about quantum mechanics.) | My personal fantasies (besides cheap batiste) is twill linen and silk velvet. | I'm sure I'll go into cardiac arrest at the price if I ever locate any, but | in the meantime I can dream, can't I? I know Colonial Williamsburg has silk | decorating fabrics. Can anybody suggest some sources? For silk velvet, try Oriental Silks in Los Angeles. (The third time I've recommended them in three days -- I'm going to have to write a macro or something.) G. Street Fabrics in Rockville, MD carries silk velvet also, but you'll probably pay a lot more if you order from them. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 95 22:48 CDT From: tallison@mcs.com (Tim Allison) Subject: Re Amazon muslin I believe this is a result of a comment I made some time ago, that Janet Burgess of Amazon had told me that the batiste she carried was the closest equivalent to old-style muslin. However, the reason I mentioned it was to see if there was enough interest in genuine muslin to pursue the possibility of having it made again. This could only happen if there was reason to believe there'd be a lot of demand. ------------------------------ From: jennyb@pdd.3com.com Date: Fri, 2 Jun 95 08:26:02 BST Subject: Book search (14th cent?) >I'm on a search for a copy of a book from the V&A (published by Her >Majesty's Stationary?) on pouchs, belts and sword hangers from 13th to >15th century. It had some of the best documention I've seen yet. > >I have had a chance to view it some months ago by haven't found it in >print anywhere.....sigh;) I know it's part a series that includes a >wonderful book on footwear. Does anyone know of a way to order >it or should I just put it in my mental filing cabinet called "out of print"? Sounds like part of the series published by Her Majesty's Stationary Office (HMSO) I don't know if it's still in print, but if you can't get it locally & it's still available my favourite bookshop can probably help. They are:- Blackwells 48-51 Broad St Oxford OX3 3BQ U.K. Their phone number from within the U.K. is 01865 792792 The international number is 44 1865 792292, you need to add your country's international access code to the front of that (e.g. from the U.S.A. dial 011 first) They take credit cards, will ship internationally & if all else fails have a good second hand department that might have the book even if its out of print. Jennifer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 13:36:38 +0100 (BST) From: Dorothy Stein Subject: Re: History of covering the hair Covering the hair (or, alternatively, shaving the head) as the sign of a 'good' or modest (i.e., chaste) woman is not peculiar to Christianity, but is also found in Islam, Judaism and Buddhism, both historically and currently. The citation quoted in your message contained only part of my original statement, which continued: Dear Eliz, could you spell out some of the 'various reasons' why women in so many countries have covered their hair? As far as I know, it is usually connected with the notions of submission and sexual modesty. This applies to nuns, whose habits derive from the dress of medieval peasant women, as well as to orthodox Jewish women (who wear an ugly red wig to conceal their hair), Hindu women, and, of course, Muslims. I have queried Muslim women who wear the hejab, or head scarf, and they are all perfectly aware of the connection. They wear it to show they are 'good' (as compared to women who don't), and hope that thus men will 'respect' (i.e., not sexually harass) them. In many cases (including that of the red wig) there are signs that, out of boredom or frustrated esthetic yearnings, women have tried to circumvent the real purpose (to lessen the threat to the property of men who have or will have claims on them) by making the encumbrances more decorative. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 10:09:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jim O'Connor" Subject: War of 1812 Uniform Pattern Someone was asking about a pattern for a War of 1812 uniform for Fort Erie (sorry, I don't have the original posting, my backup mail dissolved into the luminiferous ether.) Another correspondent mentioned that Parks Canada has such a pattern but it may be hard to obtain. My source informs me that Past Patterns also has a suitable pattern. Indeed, they said that this can be used for either American or British, the uniforms were so similar. It's possible that both the Parks Canada and the Past Pattern's pattern are derived from the same uniform and therein lies a little tale. The story goes that a shipment of uniforms from Britain was on-board a merchant ship captured by an American privateer during the War of 1812. This supply of perfectly good uniforms was 'requisitioned' by the American Army and used to outfit the fife and drum corps. These captured uniforms were red with reversed lapels of blue, whereas the Americans wore blue with reversed red lapels. However the American musicians had traditionally worn red and this practice continued at least until the 1830's. The modern-era, ceremonial Old Guard recreates that by using red coats for the fife and drum corps. Naturally, most of the original uniforms have long since been lost. However one of the captured British uniforms escaped the band and was preserved. It is now in the care of the Cape Ann Historical Society in Gloucester, Massachusetts. It was this uniform that is supposed to be the source for the patterns. Now please allow me to digress for a moment and even dare to go off topic. If anyone has the chance to check up on this story and perhaps visit the Cape Ann Historical Society, then by all means be sure to contact the Society for the Preservation of New England Antiquities (S.P.N.E.A. oft pronounced 'spin-nay-ahh'). Ask for directions to and the opening time for the Sleeper-McCann house in Gloucester, Mass. This house is sometimes called Belleport (which was the orginal French name for Gloucester, 'beautiful port' which indeed it still is.) Words alone cannot adequately describe this place, it's sheer whimsy and audacity must be experienced. SCA members and anyone with an hint of imagination would find a visit to this hidden treasure a worthwhile endeavor. ------------------------------ From: KATHLEEN@ANSTEC.COM Date: Fri, 02 Jun 95 10:23:12 EST Subject: Re[2]: Brave Heart Gretchen -- It depends on what you mean by "highland" clothing. Scotland was for all intents and purposes, two countries, divided northeast to southwest by the Firth of Forth. The lowlands and midlands were on the southern side of the Firth and the Highland were on the other. In the Highlands, the clan system was very strong; in the lowlands it was less strong. The film takes a lot of license with the clothing in any case. Anyone who wears a kilt knows that it is NOT an ideal garment to ride a horse in (the guys in my Highland regiment winced when Rob Roy got on that horse in a kilt). That's why in later centuries at least, people who could afford to ride horses wore trews. First-person accounts tell of Highlanders wearing shirts (leine, the light- colored or saffron shirt) and mantles through the 16th century. The mantles were sometimes "checked" but there is no mention of anything that could be construed as "tartan". There is a book on lowland Scottish clothing, but I do not have the citation here. I'd have to get it from my local library. But the clothing is nearly identical or identical to what the English in the northern part of England were wearing. And William Wallace, being a lowlander, was probably pretty indistinguishable from an Englishman (I know he'll come down to haunt me because of that remark). When you consider that the only accounts we have of William Wallace come from a minstrel called Blind Harry some years after the fact, there is a lot of speculation about much of his life, anyway.If it makes Hollywood feel better to make him a wild woad-painted Highlander who moons the English, I guess we can chalk it up to artistic license. Kathleen kathleen@anstec.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 22:29:58 +0800 From: writan@iinet.com.au (Writan Consulting) Subject: fine fabrics Silk Velvet: For some strange reason, this is (relatively) cheap this year. $30 Australian/metre, 115cm wide; the same as cupro rayon velvet. It's very nice, much lighter than cupro velvet; quite good for Perth. I think the backing isn't silk, though. (current exchange rate has fallen - $1 AUD ~ 70c US). Wool: Most Australian superfine wools go to either Italian mills (Zegna buys heaps), or Japanese mills. A bale went last year for ~ one million dollars. I don't know how familiar you are with wool bales, but they wouldn't make that many suits out of it. I've got some incredibly soft worsted heringbone twill in a silvery grey which is waiting 'till I lose some weight before it gets cut :-). Maybe our manufacturing techniques have improved; or what we want out of cloth has changed. You can also try Cool Wool - the Aust. Wool Corp has come up with a technique to produce cloth that is cool and lightweight enough for summer. I've seen it in expensive RTW - fine, beautiful and sometimes gauzy. The sheep from the million dollar bale live inside (shedding livestock is generally frowned on by the public); other superfine breeders run them outside, but with little coats on to keep the fleece white. The best wool is grown in a warm dry climate with constant feed - the shedded sheep actually live in the wheat belt, where it often gets over 40 degrees celsius in summer. If the feed isn't constant, the wool has inconsistent strength along the length of the staple. I have heard of a couple of places who mail order wool (some of it is milled here - and Australians do buy a lot of it back again). I've never used either of these places - so I can't guarantee them. Logan's Fabric Club PO Box 184 Rozelle NSW 2039 Australia They have 150cm wide Wool Georgette for $38 AUD, recommended for "frocks (sic), blouses, and lingerie". They have lots of other weights listed, too. $5 for samples only, deducted from first order. Visa and Mastercard. The other one is: Fernhill Fabric Shop PO Box 719 Benalla VIC 3672 They have over eighty fabric types (wool and blends), all Australian made, $28 - $39 per metre. $5 for samples. These guys are a shop in the country; they probably sell wool from some of the local mills (there are lots of sheep around Benalla). I can give you their phone numbers if you like. /anne... Bevan Casey The Docker hanging ten on the internet reef break ============== _ 0_/ / U _ === l l / =======/// \\ === / /========llll llllll\\== === \ / =======\\\ //llll\\==== - - ---------- ======= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 10:30:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jim O'Connor" Subject: La Fille du Regiment Someone was asking about 'accurate' uniforms for the above opera. Perhaps someone with more precise knowledge of the opera can fill in the exact time period and unit designation. But if this would be one of the royal regiments i.e. pre-dating the French Revolution, then my best source informed me that since the French, along with the Austro-Hungarian empire and to a slightly lesser degree the Prussians maintained very large armies, they went on an economy drive. They used mostly un-dyed wool for the uniform so the overall color is mostly off-white. A few years ago I had the chance to snap some photos of the Regiment St. Onge, which group recreates a French royal regiment, while they were encamped at Fort Warren in Boston Harbor which made a striking site for such a camp. The white of the uniforms contrasted nicely with the dark gray stones of the Civil War era fortress. Historically, the French units were actually stationed across Hull Gut at Fort Revere in Hull, Mass, during the American Revolution. Fort Revere was an earthenworks fort that was later destroyed to make way for coastal artillery. The Hull Historical Society is working to preserve the site. They have copies of the report of the French commander, fascinating reading. I'm told that it was the French National Guard who wore the blue uniforms that are more often thought to be typical. Using 'accurate' costumes for an opera production may raise the perennial question of whether it is better to conform to what is thought to be accurate. ------------------------------ From: AWILSON.abrscbr@anca.erin.gov.au (AWILSON) Subject: Re: Medieval Shoes in particula Date: Fri, 02 Jun 95 15:42 Gregory wrote "If anyone would like to discuss their leather working experiences or have any questions that I might be able to answer, please feel free to email me" This put me in mind of a common problem with this (and other) lists and their subscribers. Please, please, please, unless you have very good reasons to remain uncontactable, put your own email address at the end of your message. That way, people can contact you about specific things off topic without cluttering up the list. Thanks in advance Annette Wilson awilson.abrscbr@anca.erin.gov.au ------------------------------ From: DRBJ4@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 02:19:33 -0400 Subject: Costumes for Taming of the Shrew Need diagrams and pictures of costumes that might be used for the Shakespear play Taming of the Shrew. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 13:25:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Gretchen Miller Subject: unsubscribe reminder Remember, to unsubscribe from the list, send a message to h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Please don't send unsubscribe messages to the list. Thanks! toodles, gretchen (h-costume list maintainer) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 10:53:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Cannon Subject: Re: The magazine Costume, brocades (fwd) On Fri, 2 Jun 1995, Rowan wrote: > You MUST send me the address/phone of this place!! Also, if anyone sends you > info on more period stuff, please send that too. Metallic thread brocade > on silk... drool,drool! What is your interest if not re-creational? > thanks, > -Rowan > Could someone provide the info. this lady seeks? Unfortunately, it was not I who sent the original message. Thanks.--Carol cjcannon@ucdavis.edu ------------------------------ End of Volume 319 -----------------------