From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #164 Reply-To: h-costume Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Tuesday, August 22 1995 Volume 3, Number 164 Important Addresses: Submissions to the list: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/removes/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #163 Re: the numbering system once again... INtroductions Re: Firehazard of hoop skirts Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #163 aprons Book sale, classes, and rats' nests Re: Wish I knew when I was st... Re: Firehazard of hoop skirts Re: Firehazard of hoop skirts Re: Firehazard of hoop skirts We're officially switched over! Re: 1835 Coat Re: Introduction (renn ribbons) Re: Women's clothing and fire hazards ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 13:27:49 -0500 (EST) From: STRAUSS@WCUVAX1.WCU.EDU Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #163 Question: when H-Costume began,r ecently, with #154, the old list Costumes, seemed to cease. Is that true? And what about #1-153? Thanks, Bob Strauss ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 10:42:25 -0700 (PDT) From: close (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Re: the numbering system once again... STRAUSS@WCUVAX1.WCU.EDU wrote: > Question: when H-Costume began,r ecently, with #154, the old list > Costumes, seemed to cease. > Is that true? And what about #1-153? This was covered earlier. Here it is again: Subject: Re: numbering change Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 08:17:53 -0700 (PDT) [snip] We also changed the digest numbering system. The list has been active for three years now, so I've changed to Volume 3, number (whatever). The number was derived from taking the number of the first digest of this year and subtracting the number of the most recent digest at the time the switch was started. Thus v03.n### is the most recent digest to pay attention to. The next digest to go out, on August 11th, will be v03.n159. When the new year comes, we'll switch over to v04.n001 and count up again. [snip] The older digests have not been renamed, yet, and I'm not sure we will rename them. They are all still completely and freely available in the archives. If you send: index h-costume as the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com you'll get back a list of all the available files. - -- Diane Close close@lunch.engr.sgi.com I'm at lunch all day. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 17:54:19 -0500 (EST) From: "Questions are a burden to others; answers are a prison to ones self" Subject: INtroductions Howdy! My name is Deb Fuller, a new subscriber to this list, and I wanted to introduce myself. I'm a 1994 graduate of James Madison University with a B.A. in Theater with emphasis in costume history. I studied with Dr. Paul Reinhardt for the semesters he was a guest professor at JMU and also worked with the folk dance ensemble which does period dances. My specific area of interest is the medieval ages and one of these years I'm going to do that thesis on armour like I've always wanted to. But overall, any era of costume interests me esp. with the application to period re-enactments. Currently, I'm student teaching for my Master's in Ed so I've been out of the theater/costume scene for a while but I'm excited about this listserv. Fabrically, Deb Fuller ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 14:51:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Kimberly Smay Subject: Re: Firehazard of hoop skirts Idon't have any documented instances, but I ran across references to hoopskirt caused deaths for a paper I wrote in college. In these instances the women's skirt was so large that it went into the fireplace without her noticing and then was unable to get out of it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 15:12:44 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #163 Re: aprons. But blacksmiths knew enough to wear leather aprons! But how many cooks today wear wool or leather aprons. Even for barbecuing, we all wear nice flammable cotton aprons. No particular point to make, just thought I'd mention it. (in my continuing efforts to veer away from Eurocentricity (heh heh) I'd like to mention that in the thousand-year old Persian epic, Book of Kings, one of the heroes was a blacksmith and his apron became the rebels standard or banner. Susan Fatemi susanf@eerc.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 95 15:38:07 PDT From: linda@Synopsys.COM (Linda Roy) Subject: aprons I looked through some of my costume books, paying attention this time to the pictures of people wearing aprons, and a lot of them show the skirts and sometimes aprons hiked up. It seems to me that this would make them less likely to get dirty or catch fire accidentally. These pictures cover several centuries, not just the 19th. Something I found of interest was the depiction of maids pretending to have hoops by using some simple form to hold the skirts out--didn't servants in the 19th century wear hooped skirts? If not, then wouldn't the risk of catching fire be smaller? Linda Roy linda@synopsys.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 15:48:56 -0700 (PDT) From: close (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: Book sale, classes, and rats' nests Here's a couple of things of interest to members of this list: Edward R. Hamilton books, a remainder and discount mail order book house, has several items of interest for historic costumers. Besides their usual great selections in history and biography, they offer: _Toulouse-Lautrec's Table_ by Genevieve Diego-Dortignac, et. al. This is a collection of over 100 recipes representative of the Belle Epoque era, along with comments and notes of historical perspective. $12.95 _The Compleat Housewife_ by Eliza Smith. This is a reproduction of the first cookbook published in the U.S. in 1758. It, too, presents lots of information beyond simple cooking. $15.95 _Fitting & Pattern Alteration_ by Elizabeth G. Liechty, et. al. Covers many different alteration methods for varying abilities and purposes. $6.95. _Shirtmaking_ by David Page Coffin. The Taunton Press publication; it touches briefly on some historical methods of shirtmaking, but overall is good for doing intricately detailed shirts. $9.95 There are, of course, tons of other books available. These are only the most relevant to this list that I found. To order any of them, send your check to: Edward R. Hamilton Falls Village, CT 06031-5000 Shipping and handling cost is $3 total no matter how many books you order. Catalogs are free upon request. They do no business by phone and don't take credit cards either. Satisfaction is guaranteed. I have no affiliation with the firm, other than being a very happy, repeat customer! In the San Francisco Bay area, the San Jose Historical Museum Association is giving several classes of interest to historic costumers this fall. There's a hat making class that meets September 16, 30, and October 14 and costs $40, and there's a corset workshop that meets September 23 and 24 and also costs $40. Parasol creation, ribbon trimming, silk ribbon embroidery, battenburg lace making and makeup classes are coming later (based on past offerings); I'll post when I have the details. To sign up, send a check to: S.J.H.M.A. 1650 Senter Road San Jose, CA 95112 or call Julie Peterson at 408-993-8136. My mother-in-law sent me a very interesting article from the Wall Street Journal on the value of _rats' nests_ in historic research. She, unfortunately, clipped off the date of publication, but the article "Rats' nests yield store of tiny domestic treasures" was written by Stephen Kreider Yoder. Since it's copyrighted, I'll only exerpt it (indented) below: Charles Phillips is searching for decorating tips in Gunston Hall, a historic home in Mason Neck. So he crawls through a cupboard, raches into a small space behind it and pulls out some inspiration: a matted pile of filthy yarn, paper scraps and little black oval pellets. What he's found is a rats' nest and apparently these can go back for hundreds of years! Rats (Rattus rattus and R. norvegicus) gather random samplings of everyday things and stuff them into their nests, along with the usual bodily wastes and rat carcasses. As the mansion's staff picks apart the dusty stash, tiny treasures appear: a bone button, scraps of 18th- century newspapers and wallpaper bits that may help recreate the original wall coverings. Apparently these nests can contain just about anything, including "musket balls and a 200-year-old pair of boy's trousers" or "a shaving kit and a woman's slip." Most older-house owners don't realize or appreciate the importance of rats' nests, and often throw away hundreds of years of history without knowing it! I found this to be a pretty interesting, brief article and I'd recommend looking it up if you have the chance. - -- Diane Close close@lunch.engr.sgi.com I'm at lunch all day. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 19:57:18 -0400 From: MarieD0108@aol.com Subject: Re: Wish I knew when I was st... Ah yes, the basics. Let us not forget these: 1. Invest the money in professional scissor sharpening, especially if you use a lot of synthetic material. Synthetics dull sciccors really quickly. Sharp scissors are a dream to use. 2. Remember the '3 foot' rule. If you can't see the mistake from 3 feet away, then it doesn't matter. Really! As much as we want to be perfect, too much can kill you. Authentic garments had mistakes, too. 3. Don't sew when you are really tired, or really upset. This is when mistakes happen. If you must sew at these times, be careful and double check everything. I have had to rip out so many things because I sewed too late into the night... 4. Use high-quality thread. Those '8 for a dollar' spools may seem like a good bargain, but they are NOT worth it! Invest in good, brand-name thread. I have the brand I prefer, and will not use anything else. This seems obvious, but if you think 'thread is thread', then you should try the other brands. These are just hints I have learned, the hard way. Marie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 20:13:42 -0400 From: MarieD0108@aol.com Subject: Re: Firehazard of hoop skirts The real hazard seemed to be that the skirts would brush against a fire (candle embers, etc) and catch on fire. Since the lady was essentially trapped in her hoops, she could not be extinguished and was burned to death. The hazard increased with the diameter of the hoop. Viva la bustle! Marie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 21:57:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Ben Bishop Subject: Re: Firehazard of hoop skirts On Mon, 21 Aug 1995, Kimberly Smay wrote: > Idon't have any documented instances, but I ran across references to > hoopskirt caused deaths for a paper I wrote in college. In these > instances the women's skirt was so large that it went into the fireplace > without her noticing and then was unable to get out of it. > Mrs. Longfellow (wife of the poet/author) burned to death because her hoop skirt caught on fire. One overlooked feature of the hoop skirt was that it was a natural bellows -- once it caught fire, any movement just fanned the flames. Ben Bishop, Atlantic Consultants, Inc. aci@shore.net Words should never be confused with communication. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 95 22:23:09 PST From: Kat@grendal.rain.com (June Russell) Subject: Re: Firehazard of hoop skirts :One overlooked feature of the hoop skirt was that it was a natural :bellows -- once it caught fire, any movement just fanned the flames. : :Ben Bishop, Atlantic Consultants, Inc. :aci@shore.net Words should never be confused with communication. One thing which can happen even if you are not in hoops is going up because you move. The first response of an untrained person who catches on fire is to run. As we know, this is the opposite of the trained response: stop/drop/roll. I suspect that even a hoopskirt, if the person rolled on the floor (which smothers it) rather than running or trying to stand and get it off, would put it out. (I still wouldn't want to try it out to see.) Kat Kateryne of Hindscroft ( June Russell ) pacifier.rain.com!grendal!kat kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 09:47:52 -0700 (PDT) From: close (Diane Barlow Close) Subject: We're officially switched over! The Historic Costume mailing list is now being run off majordomo software, with human aid. This should help immensely in eliminating most of the "please unsubscribe me" messages that get sent to the list. Other than the digest numbers changing, you should see no difference between the way the list is run now and the way it was run before. You all recently received a "welcome" message that described some of the list's new available features. Here's a summary of some of the more important things: To post to the list (that is, to send something out you want everyone to see) you should send your message to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com However, we are keeping the old address (h-costume@andrew.cmu.edu) active too, so if you forget (or simply don't want to change), it's okay! The old address will simply forward your message here and pass it on to the rest of the people on the list. FYI, here's how to subscribe and unsubscribe yourself: To join the list, send a message to: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com In that message, say one of the following as the body of the message: subscribe h-costume end or subscribe h-costume-digest end The first will put you on the list to receive approx. 2-10 mailings per day. The second will put you on the list to receive one digest approximately every 1-5 days of the past week's mailings. To unsubscribe from the list, send a message to: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com In that message, say one of the following as the body of the message: unsubscribe h-costume end (if you are signed up to the direct mail version) or unsubscribe h-costume-digest end (if you are signed up to the digest version.) Gretchen Miller, the list day-to-day admin, can be reached at any time for human intervention by writing to: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu - -- Diane Close close@lunch.engr.sgi.com I'm at lunch all day. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 08:47:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Keith Subject: Re: 1835 Coat Sue: Don't worry about matching up the seams of the sleeve with the seams of the body. I don't know of any jackets where they do and it would probably defeat purpose of the sleeve seams which is to allow shaping for the elbow. What you need to do is have your husband try on the jacket and then pin the sleeves into place. There is no "objective" placement for the sleeves; placement will vary depending on your husband's posture. As to your second dilemna--tucks--I suggest that you make sure the larger piece (i.e. the sleeve) is on the bottom against the machine feed-dogs. Before you sew, however, carefully pin the area at the base of the arm hole so that the ease will be distributed in the sleeve head only. When you sew, start at the very base and then when you get to the portion that needs to be eased, curve the two piece of fabric up, and put a SLIGHT amount of tension on the upper piece (The fabric of the suit body). This should give you an even ease in your seam. Try some samples before you actually work on the jacket. If you jacket is made out of wool, steam the heck out of the sleeve head so that the eased fabric will shrink into the arm hole. If it doesn't shrink the entire amount right away, don't worry, just keep at it and let it dry in between steamings. You'd be suprised how much wool shrinks Kelly > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 11:21:13 -0400 From: Joe Marfice Subject: Re: Introduction (renn ribbons) On Thu, 17 Aug 1995 Edith Minne wrote: >I am a new subscriber and would like to introduce myself. I am French, >my name is Edith Minne and I have started 8 years ago to bring to the >USA my interest in European decorative Trimmings for Fashion and Design. Bien venu, Edith! >My Company name is Renaissance Ribbons. > >I am presently importing exquisite ribbons and passementeries woven on >Traditional french looms. Many designs date back to the 17 th century. >We are working on a color brochure on a metallic selection of trimmings. >Any suggestion on how to reach people that would be interested? > >Thank you! >- -- >FRRIBBONS@aol.com Chere Edith, As a member of the USA-based medieval/rennaissence recreationist group, the Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA), I would like to know if you have any desire to expand your line to include earlier patterns. We have some 50-100 thousand members, and most of us dream constantly of finding 'that perfect trim' to finish some costume. We cover the period of 600- 1600 AD (please, no flame wars over the _exact_ dates!). There are many merchants in the SCA who would be eager to carry your lines, if you provide documentable designs. A simple add in our magazine, Tournaments Illustrated, would reach your customers and/or merchants quite easily, if your line ever covers our period. Which I hope it does. I'll send you the address for TI privately, when I get it (I'm at work now). Best of luck with your business. | Broom, at The Lady Perrine | aka Joe Marfice | Ministerium honor est. \|/ which means "This end up." /|\ 513-222-2330 233 Perrine Street //|\\ af289@dayton.wright.edu Dayton (my fayre citee), OH 45410 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 15:08:27 +0100 (BST) From: Dorothy Stein Subject: Re: Women's clothing and fire hazards On Mon, 21 Aug 1995, Susan Fatemi wrote: > Re: aprons. But blacksmiths knew enough to wear leather aprons! But how many > cooks today wear wool or leather aprons. Even for barbecuing, we all wear > nice flammable cotton aprons. No particular point to make, just thought I'd mention it. (in my continuing efforts to veer away from > Eurocentricity (heh heh) I'd like to mention that in the thousand-year old > Persian epic, Book of Kings, one of the heroes was a blacksmith and his > apron became the rebels standard or banner. > > Susan Fatemi > susanf@eerc.berkeley.edu > OK, if we are veering away from Eurocentricity I will succumb to the temptation of mentioning that one of the standard traditional explanations of the high suicide rate among young wives in India (the other, rural, version was snakebite) was the frequency with which the ends of their saris fell into the kerosene stove. Many of these cases on closer inspection seem to be really murder by in-laws (the famous 'dowry deaths'), but it makes little difference since their lives were often made so miserable that often husbands and in-laws are morally if not legally responsible. ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #164 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!