From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V3 #255 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Tuesday, November 21 1995 Volume 3, Number 255 Compilation copyright (C) 1995 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Fashion and Fetishism Re: sarcenet and gold thread Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #254 Re: socks and footcloths Re: need info on corsets Re: wool as fire retardant Muslin for Tunic? Lavender's Green Looking for sources re: 1450-1500 England. Anybody? RE: Looking for sources re: 1450-1500 England. Anybody? yours re Corsets Re: Looking for sources re: 1450-1500 England. Anybody? Re: Muslin for Tunic? Muslin vs Calico Snoods Corsets in SF Bay Area velvet Re: velvet ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 10:50:53 +1100 From: "GILLIAN RICHARDS (02) 716 3712" Subject: Fashion and Fetishism The Fashion and Fetishism book also shows cartoons of the "maid" wearing a jersey (sweater, jumper) over her (too-tightly) laced form supposedly in emulation of her upper- or middle-class mistress - I can't remember the exact date but it's certainly C19 - didn't someone earlier mention about sweaters being a fashion item only from the 20's? + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + | Gillian Richards - TAFE NSW - (02) 716 3712 |\__/| | | aka: gillian.richards@tafensw.edu.au / \ | | "The Midnight Fox", "Mummy" /_.~ ~,_\ | | Australia's answer to the werewolf? \ / | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - @ - - - - - - + ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 17:55:36 -0500 From: Sanni1@aol.com Subject: Re: sarcenet and gold thread Lorina: There's a great company in NYC called Tinsel Trading Co. They specialize in real metal threads from the 1930s and I think their prices are quite reasonable. Call for a sample card. They will want to know what kinds of threads you want, then will make up a card with examples. I got some materials to embroider a 1812 Hussar's sabretache, and it looked fantastic with the old threads. PS; I don't have their number handy, but I got it from Directory Assistance in Manhattan. Happy sewing, Sanni ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 14:20:45 -0800 (PST) From: Jamie Nikkel Subject: Re: H-Costume Digest V3 #254 Try Victoria Ridenour (415-962-0882) in Mountain View, CA. She really knows how to make corsets that fit. I don't know if she has time right now but it couldn't hurt to ask. Jamie jnikkel@bbnplanet.com >Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 13:42:37 -0800 >From: Heather Meadows >Subject: Corsets in the SF Bay area > >The corset I originally had for Dickens fair is just >too short for me - so I'm giving it to a friend soon. > >Does anyone know of custom corset makers in the Bay Area that >might have some time right now? I'm sure most people are busy - >and no I don't like Dark Gardens work much! > >thanks >- -heather > >------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: 20 Nov 1995 14:05:25 -0800 From: "Carole Newson-Smith" Subject: Re: socks and footcloths Reply to: RE>socks and footcloths From: lrp@westol.com > During the recent postings dealing with knitting, the subject of socks *having >been around along time* was mentioned. That got me thinking about when and where >socks first appeared. Also, there is the eastern European custom of wearing >footcloths instead of socks. The footcloths are rectanglar squares of cloth that >are wrapped around the feet and worn inside shoes or boots. > I'm curious about the origins of socks, and also footcloths. The concepts of >the footcloths seems simple and it is very possible earlier than socks or >stockings. > > Does anyone have any documentation on the when and where of these two >techniques of covering the feet, while wearing shoes? > > >Les Well, this is the first I've heard of foot cloths. How would you keep them in place while you were sliding your foot into your boot? Where and when would this be done in eastern Europe? Carole Newson-Smith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 14:42:04 -0800 From: shepgibb@mcn.org Subject: Re: need info on corsets >Hello-- > >I am looking for a book or other reasearch info on the medical problems >associalted with wearing corsets in any period of time that they were >wern. That was from Kerri Potratz - I am not too good at replying yet. Try FREAKS OF FASHION:The Corset & The Crinoline by William Berry Lord. HEALTH ART & REASON: Dress Reformers of th 19th Century by Stella Mary Newton. DRESS AS FINE ART by Mrs. Merrifield. THE ART OF BEAUTY by Mrs. Haweis. The place to look for other titles is under "Dress Reform" There was a National Dress Reform League in the U.S. which published a journal intitled "The Sibyl". Mrs. Bloomer was involved with this movement as were Susan Anthony and a lot of other people. There is one current costume historian who will insist that corsets did no harm to women. I personally do not know why she is on this bandwagon because personally I feel it is against the interests of women to promote those ideas. They did not have to wear "Uterine Supporters" for no reason at all. It may be that some sort of corset worn in a sensible manner would not harm a woman if not worn all the time, but women wore corsets all day and even while asleep at night. There were corsets for pregnant women (sounds dreadful) and for small children. I have even heard mention once of corsets for babies. To each her own I suppose but at least in this day in age if you want to wear a corset you can - but society is not forcing you to. Do you know about "The Corset Newsleter'? p.o. box 4201. Mt. View,CA 94040. It is a mix of good historical information and a grey area that looks a bit on the kinky side. :-) R.L. Shep ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 16:44:59 -0800 (PST) From: "Sarah E. Goodman" Subject: Re: wool as fire retardant > > I still haven't found anything on that specifically. However, while reading > microfilm copies of The National Tribune, a newspaper for the ACW Union > veteran (GAR), I did find the reminiscence of a man who saw an elderly > Virginia woman whose dress caught on fire while she was cooking. He quickly > put the dress out, but also credited her wool petticoat with helping to > prevent her being burned. I know that one of the main reasons the Fire Marshall didn't pitch a hissy at the Plymoth Plantation period open fireplaces is that the women wear period wool skirts. Rather impressed me (since -- on my science fiction convention running side I know exactly how exacting the fire marshalls are). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 21:45:06 -0500 From: sunfire@muskoka.com (Stephen & Krista Fraser) Subject: Muslin for Tunic? Hi! Could you give me your opinions of a 12th C. England man's tunic made of muslin? I know that linen or light wool has been suggested, but I'm trying to go as inexpensively as possible without looking ridiculous. Muslin has a vague linen look, but it doesn't drape very well....however, it would be quite cool in summer. Comments...suggestions?? Krista sunfire@muskoka.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 21:38:23 -0500 (EST) From: BARBARASHU@delphi.com Subject: Lavender's Green Has anyone on the list ever dealt with this mail order company in Hillsboro, Oregon? They make historic clothing to your order and their prices seem fairly reasonable. They sell all their costumes in three levels of authenticity: "costume, dressmaker, and living history". I'd like to know about the quality, authenticity, and value of their garments in each of these categories and if there have been problems with their service. Thanks, Barbara in foggy L.A. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 02:36:29 GMT From: db-cos@westmore.demon.co.uk (David Brewer) Subject: Looking for sources re: 1450-1500 England. Anybody? It's time to re-make all my kit for next year, time to push all the other slobs in my group to do the same. A handbook for costume is in order... and only I'm going to write it. Having asked the list for info regarding gloves and been pleasantly surprised by the volume of response, I'd like to ask more generally for pointers to sources regarding costume as a whole for, ideally, 1460s England or, more loosely, for late medieval northern europe. I'm already working my way through the h-costume lists bibliographies and I have to say the books my local library are coming up with are quite unimpresive. Somewhere out there must be the material I'm looking for. For example, I have seen exactly one copy of a publication called "The Complete Anachronist", which was regarding coats-of-plates and brigandines. Not only was it a credible academic treatment of the subject it was a splendid practical guide as well. I'm sure there are many more in this series: are they as good? and where can I get some? All pointers much appreciated. - -- David Brewer, Sheffield, UK. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 95 14:26:00 EST From: "Hicks, Melissa" Subject: RE: Looking for sources re: 1450-1500 England. Anybody? David, The Complete Anachronist is a publication put out by the Society for Creative Anachronism. They print 6 issues per year and each deals with a different topic. There are at least three which deal with clothing and one which has a detailed annotated bibliography of books relating to garb. If no-one else responds, I will bring the details in with me tomorrow. Melissa/Meliora mah@amsa.gov.au ---------- From: owner-h-costume To: h-costume Subject: Looking for sources re: 1450-1500 England. Anybody? Date: Tuesday, 21 November 1995 02:36 It's time to re-make all my kit for next year, time to push all the other slobs in my group to do the same. A handbook for costume is in order... and only I'm going to write it. Having asked the list for info regarding gloves and been pleasantly surprised by the volume of response, I'd like to ask more generally for pointers to sources regarding costume as a whole for, ideally, 1460s England or, more loosely, for late medieval northern europe. I'm already working my way through the h-costume lists bibliographies and I have to say the books my local library are coming up with are quite unimpresive. Somewhere out there must be the material I'm looking for. For example, I have seen exactly one copy of a publication called "The Complete Anachronist", which was regarding coats-of-plates and brigandines. Not only was it a credible academic treatment of the subject it was a splendid practical guide as well. I'm sure there are many more in this series: are they as good? and where can I get some? All pointers much appreciated. -- David Brewer, Sheffield, UK. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 19:33:05 -0800 From: shepgibb@mcn.org Subject: yours re Corsets YES - I have read Kunzle. And YES the bulletin board is wonderful. I don't agree with him because there is just too much other evidence out there to suggest otherwise. I do not dispute that women wore corsets (& still do) for reasons of sexuality, etc. What I object to is a society which FORCES women to wear corsets or be considered 'bad'. I also object to that same society that ignores the harm that they did to many women's bodies. There is no doubt that not ALL of anything was anything. It never is. However, hopefully, women have come a long way in being able to choose whether or not they want to do harmful things (like smoke ciagrettes) I really do believe that women should have freedom of choice in all matters. I do not believe that any government or society has the right to tell any of us what we have to do. :-) R.L. Shep ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 23:37:58 -0500 From: margritt@mindspring.com (Margritte) Subject: Re: Looking for sources re: 1450-1500 England. Anybody? At 9:36 PM 11/20/95, David Brewer wrote: >For example, I have seen exactly one copy of a publication called >"The Complete Anachronist", which was regarding coats-of-plates and >brigandines. Not only was it a credible academic treatment of the >subject it was a splendid practical guide as well. I'm sure there >are many more in this series: are they as good? and where can I get >some? "The Complete Anachronist" is published by the Society for Creative Anachronism. To get more info, check out their newsgroup at rec.org.sca. Someone there might have an index of all the CA's, or at least be able to tell you where to find one. Ask someone on this newsgroup for the address of the stock clerk; he's the one that can actually sell you the CA's. Not all the CA's deal with costuming. They are written on a variety of subjects relating to the Middle Ages- anything from clothes to food to games, etc, etc. Each one is written by a different author, so the quality is sure to vary from book to book, but in general they are quite good. - -Margritte - ------------------------------------------------------------ Gryphon's Moon - Request our free catalog of Celtic jewelry. email margritt@mindspring.com or check out our web page at http://www.mindspring.com/~maclain/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 15:53:16 +1100 (EST) From: Katrina Hunt Subject: Re: Muslin for Tunic? On Mon, 20 Nov 1995, Stephen & Krista Fraser wrote: > Could you give me your opinions of a 12th C. England man's tunic made of muslin? > I know that linen or light wool has been suggested, but I'm trying to go as > inexpensively as possible without looking ridiculous. Muslin has a vague > linen look, but it doesn't drape very well....however, it would be quite > cool in summer. Comments...suggestions?? > Is muslin different there than in Australia? Here the weave is very open and not appropriate for outer wear. It would be very cool, and very, very see-through. Katrina ******************************************************************************* * * * David and Katrina Hunt | thehunts@canberra.dialix.oz.au * * Stephen Aldred & Mathilde Adycote | 24 Edwards St Higgins ACT Australia * Baron & Baroness Politarchopolis | Phone (06) 254 3059 * * * ******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 16:22:08 +1100 (EST) From: Fiona Thorne Subject: Muslin vs Calico Katrina, I believe that: US Australian muslin === calico Question for our US friends, is muslin bleached, unbleached or both? When we buy what we call calico, it is nearly always unbleached. Does anybody know when the terms diverged in meaning? Are there any weavers or fabric specialists out there that can supply a full list of MODERN terms for cotton fabrics, along with descriptions covering look, feel, weight, printing techniques, etc. If we could get these for each country, we might be able to work out what exactly we are talking about. Of course, any connections to historical terms would be terrific. Fiona. - ------------------------------------------------------------- Fiona Thorne Masters Student, University of Technology, Sydney (Australia) fthorne@socs.uts.edu.au or Fiona_E._Thorne@aapda.com.au http://linus.socs.uts.edu.au/~fthorne > Is muslin different there than in Australia? Here the weave is very > open and not appropriate for outer wear. It would be very cool, > and very, very see-through. > > Katrina ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 00:36:51 -0500 From: Christy546@aol.com Subject: Snoods Hello - Never having been to the San Francisco Dicken's Fair, yet having to run a booth full of volunteer's for the American Museum of Straw Arts, I have counted on information from this group to help costume them all. I have cut, pasted, gathered, and edited the information so generously shared by this group to send out to our volunteers. Thank you so very much for the information you have passed along. Now I have been asked one more question by a volunteer that has worked the fair years before. She was asking if snoods were appropriate to wear. If so, what type and would it be combined with other head coverings or could it be worn alone? Any information would be helpful. The research that I have done has not covered this topic, so this was the first place I thought to get the information quickly - And without having to make an hour drive each way, to the nearest library that might have the information. Thanks again for your help! Christy P.S. I still have a few openings to gate list people willing to volunteer two 2-hour shifts at the booth a day. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Nov 95 09:02:30 EST From: Rhane <74404.22@compuserve.com> Subject: Corsets in SF Bay Area TO: Heather Meadows Subject: Corsets in the SF Bay area <> I know Raiments' isn't in the 'Bay Area', but they are in Pasadena... (my geography of CA is hideous) and they just opened a new store! You may want to ask them?? I've already posted their e-mail address, don't know the street addy of the store, tho... (e-mail them and ask?) Good luck, Rhane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 09:10:36 -0600 From: sschmidt@moe.coe.uga.edu (Stacia Schmidt) Subject: velvet Does anyone know when velvet first started to become a commonly used fabric for clothing? Specifically looking at the countries of Italy, France, and England? Stacia ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 10:29:28 -0500 (EST) From: Drea Leed Subject: Re: velvet I know that voided velvet (velvet with a pattern made out of cut and uncut pile, and there's a lot more to it but It's wierd to explain) was used in 16th century Italy, and in Tudor times in England. I don't know details, I'm afraid. Drea On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Stacia Schmidt wrote: > Does anyone know when velvet first started to become a commonly used fabric > for clothing? Specifically looking at the countries of Italy, France, and > England? > > Stacia > > > ******************************************* We've secretly replaced their dilithium crystals with new Folger's Crystals. Now let's watch them go to warp. ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V3 #255 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!