From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #100 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Wednesday, April 24 1996 Volume 4, Number 100 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Re: Small Garment Hypothosis Re: Elizabethan Partlets Re: Arthur (Digest V4 #98) RE: chain mail RE: circlets Re: the veil question Dead corset search RE: chain mail sleeve/arm hole alterations costume information lists Regency Museum collections Medieval costume tidbits Re: Fans and headpieces Re: re:re: re waists Dyes Reply from lady with the veil trouble Re: the veil question Re: Regency Museum collections Re: Regency Museum collections Scottish Women's Garments 1200-1600 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 11:54:07 -0500 From: recon36@server.iadfw.net (Ed Walton) Subject: Re: Small Garment Hypothosis >Also, I have a number of friends who do WWII reenactments; and none of them >who are over 5'10"" or over 200 lbs. have had any problems finding well >fitting original uniforms (US, British, and German mostly.) In that case, I think it's odd that people would pay me more than the price of an original uniform (which has intrinsic worth) for me to sell them a repro uniform (worth zero to nonreenactors). That's why people have to go into business making repro uniforms. There are plenty of originals, they're just too small. A recent HBO film about black troops in WW2 was hyped with the usual "behind-the-scenes" ads, which were interesting because they made the statement that the wardrobe stocks of uniforms (used successfully since the war) were now too small for the current crop of actors, so all the uniforms for the film had to be scratch built. None of the above proves anything, but the Army's quartermaster procurement records prove all. Jacket sizes over 40 were something like 5% of procurement. Todays troops are simply bigger. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --Ed Walton "Lost Battalions" Original and Reproduction WW2 Uniforms http://web2.airmail.net/recon36 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 96 12:06:14 MDT From: mgriggs@shepards.com Subject: Re: Elizabethan Partlets Thanks for all of the information everyone! This really clears up most of my confusion. I'm going to make another trip to the library and then to the fabric store. Right after my sewing machine gets back from the shop, I'm be at it again. So many projects, so little time, such a tired sewing machine! :) Lyssa ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 13:24:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Teresa Shannon Subject: Re: Arthur (Digest V4 #98) > What I would dearly love to find (and then afford) is a fine linen, > suitable for veiling -- even a fine wool! If they're out there, they're > not in the midwest. All I've seen in either one is suit-weight, far too > heavy for veils. The light weight linen I've managed to find is all in > the most hideous neon colors I've ever seen. Any sources or suggestions? > Living in the midwest, I have had no trouble finding linen when I've wanted it. Not in Chicago, Milwaukee or Minneapolis. I have a closet with a nice selection of wools and linens some of which were dirt cheap (2.00/2 yard piece at JH Collectibles sales), most on the 7-10.00/yard range, but how much would one need for a veil? I buy 8-16 yards at a time myself. It is mostly a matter of timing, these are from warehouse sales, Jo-Ann fabric sales, etc. and patience to build up a stock. Teresa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 22:24:43 -0400 From: TLLGIRL6@aol.com Subject: RE: chain mail I am working on a project, and need to find sources for chain mail of different densities---could anyone help?????? wendy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 15:38:07 -0500 (CDT) From: The Espresso Pegasus! Subject: RE: circlets > > There are "can" torches you can get at some craft places. Check them out if you do > not have a torch or a friend with one. Either way it is expensive. You can get them for 10-12 dollars at a hardware store, propane, and pencil tip are included. (and I have found some really easy solder that will light with a butane lighter... though the lower the temp, the weaker the hold) Take Care, Sarahj ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 15:52:30 CDT From: "Cindy Abel" Subject: Re: the veil question I am making planning on making a veil and wimple to wear with the rest of my costume going as a guest to our local Rennaisance fair this summer. My robe will be a simple rough looking cotton(gasps and knashing of teeth from the purists on the list) and a simple overturnic(exact fabric unchosen as yet) The robe will be a slightly faded rose that actually looks good if it crumples and wrinkles. A couple of questions. What would be the best linen or wool fabric or reasonable substitute to use for the veil and wimple and does it have to be white for circa 1300? It will be June and steamy probably when the faire opens. Does the robe/gown have to be a basic t-shape with gussets and wheels or were some clothing somewhat shaped(separate sleeves, flared skirt)? I will probably be hand-sewing this so I want to keep it simple--but I'm keeping away from silks velvets, lames, etc partly because it always rains at our faire. Any help most humbly accepted. Cindy Abel Health Sciences Library Creighton University 2500 California Plaza Omaha NE 68178-0400 Phone: 402-280-5144 Technology is wonderful only when it works correctly ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 16:28:30 -0500 (CDT) From: The Espresso Pegasus! Subject: Dead corset search Has anyone made a corset too small, too big, or is is damaged beyond repair?...or just unwilling to repair it? Or even just made it really wrong? I am looking to use a corset in one of my art projects, and atm, I have not the gumption to make one, nor the time.... I would pay a little bit for it, depending on the shape... etc.. please contact me if you have one.... exact period makes no matter. many thanks! Sarahj ______________________.oO*Oo._______________________ You Can Fret Me, But You Cannot Play Upon Me--Hamlet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 17:39:57 -0400 From: Morinna@aol.com Subject: RE: chain mail >I am working on a project, and need to find sources for chain mail of different >densities---could anyone help?????? I assume you don't want to make it yourself? Try finding your local SCA; you're almost assured of finding someone there that can make the stuff. It's not difficult... Different gauges of wire and different size jigs will give you the densities you need. - --janet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 96 16:57:14 est From: "Hilary Oak" Subject: sleeve/arm hole alterations When altering an armhole you have to first determine where it is binding or tight. Sometimes it is because the bodice is too wide in front between the armscye causing it to cut in at the front of your arms, in which case you need to cut an irregular crescent from the lower front area of the armhole. Sometimes the shoulders are too wide so the sleeve falls too low on the arm, in this case a tapered sliver cut around the top shoulder area is appropriate. If the armhole is tight under the arm, cutting a crescent that is centered on the side seam is necessary. BUT If you cut the armhole down too far it will limit your ability to raise your arms. If it feels tight across the back shoulder blade area, you may actually need to ADD a crescent shaped gusset along the back curve of the armhole. Sometimes, if enough allowance is available, just letting out the side seam and sleeve seams as far as possible will solve the problem without even removing the sleeve from the bodice. Whatever you do, remember to account for a seam allowance. When fitting an actor for an alt like this I ask them to cross their arms in front of their chest, raise their arms and move around a bit so I can figure out where it's binding. Then I put safety pins to mark where I want the sleeve to end up. After removing the sleeve (if necessary) I cut a seam-allowance-distance from the pins. Also remember that when you are working on a curve a small amount makes a big difference. You can always cut more out later if need be. Trying on the bodice before you put the sleeve back on will help to determine if you have fixed the problem. Whew! Long answer but details are important when it comes to alts! Good Luck and don't be scared, just be careful! - Hilary P.S. This is a good example of why armscye circumference, between armscye (front and back), and underarm to waist measurements are so important. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 15:03:57 -0600 From: "David A. Meyer" Subject: costume information lists I am looking for information on clothing worn by travelers, mountainmen, furtraiders and river crossing workers of the Oregon Trail, especially in Idaho. I would appreciate any information you can send me. My address is 3441 Williamsburg Way, Boise, Idaho 83706 or email at . Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 17:11:59 -0700 From: sexton@mail.wsu.edu (Althea Sexton) Subject: Regency Museum collections My thanks to all who answered my questions about Regency resources. Now I have another one. Is there any museum collections that have large collection of artifacts from the early 1800s? I am traveling this summer, and would like to be able to see the real thing. It would be best if the collection is in the western states somewhere. I'd appreciate any leads. Althea L. Sexton (aka) Althea L. Sexton - ALTHEA_SEXTON@WSU.EDU http://www.physplt.wsu.edu/info.html (WordSmith's WebBook) http://www.physplt.wsu.edu/craft.html (Craftivity) Earth First! We'll log the other planets later. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 17:09:30 -0700 From: sexton@mail.wsu.edu (Althea Sexton) Subject: Medieval costume tidbits Someone on another list asked for info on the middle ages and dress trivia. Of course, I immediately thought of all the Medeival Costume God/desses on this list. So, if anyone can answer her questions, I'd appreciate it. thanks in advance. "Can you think of any info, curiosities, rare daily living clothing facts I could offer to research maddened writers in my talk or discriptions? If you can it would be very much appreciated." Althea L. Sexton (aka) Althea L. Sexton - ALTHEA_SEXTON@WSU.EDU http://www.physplt.wsu.edu/info.html (WordSmith's WebBook) http://www.physplt.wsu.edu/craft.html (Craftivity) Earth First! We'll log the other planets later. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 20:47:45 -0500 From: corbie@radix.net (Corbie) Subject: Re: Fans and headpieces On Mon, 15 Apr 1996, Ruth Cooper wrote: > I have two questions for anyone who could possibly answer them. How far > back do hand held folding fans date and when were they most likely used > (i.e. court, balls)? > And how do I get an early period(1000-1200) floor length veil to stay on my > head for most of a day? The veil is very sheer light weight cotton. I have > tried pinning it, wrapping a portion of it around a headband, and using a > simple cloth braided circlet. I have hip length fine hair that I usually > wear in a single braid over my left shoulder when I wear a veil. I have a > hard time keeping most hair ornaments in my hair because it's so fine. Any > help and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank-you! > > Ruth Cooper > SCA persona Kassia MacWilliams I recognize that problem! (Fine hair, I mean)... I sometimes henna my hair to add body and a slightly more manageable or coarser texture. Henna comes in a 'clear' variety that doesn't color the hair at all. I get mine at the local health food store, in their cosmetics section. Try wearing the braided circlet UNDER the veil, and pinning it in place to your hair with bobby pins. Then, pin the veil with straight pins to the circlet. If that fails, try adding to the braided circlet a chin-band (runs over the crown of the head and under the chin, in a circle, and makes you look like you have a toothache if you don't wear it with the circlet around the head, but can be quite becoming if done properly). Only works if you have a good neck/chinline, otherwise it makes you look like Morley's Ghost from Dickens. Cheers, Corbie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 96 19:49:54 CDT From: bednarek@tidalwave.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097) Subject: Re: re:re: re waists I'm really sorry if I offended any of the women here with smaller waist sizes. However when I refer to the norm I'm thinking of the average woman (not girl) today who probably is not anywhere near the 22 to 26 inch waist that is depectected as the norm in the turn of the century. I will agree with others that wrote that the difference is not only in the waist but also in the ribcage. However I do remember reading about the fact that anyone can modify there rib cage to an extent. Someone where an experiment was done with individauls that were thightly laced for several years and it did show the rib cage forming into more of a cone shape. It also stated that the younger the corset wearer was the more quickly the ribs shaped themselves. The other intresting think I remember about this study was it involved both males and females. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 96 21:07:32 PDT From: Ches@mail.io.com Subject: Dyes Is it true that industrial dyes will dye ANYTHING? My wonderful sweet husband purchased a parachute and with a large grin of a 7 year old that just found his favorite frog handed it to me and said, "Can you dye this?" I tried not to die myself. ;) Instead of telling him absolutly not I offered to ask you all. The h-costume archive speaks of industrial dyes that may or maynot work. Has anyone used them? Can Ripstop nylon be dyed or painted? What with? (It is a 30 foot diameter parachute he wants to make a pavillion out of, army green with no holes and water proofed.) Where can I find industrial dyes, (I live north of Dallas). And most of all will it still be water proof when we are done? Ciao @}\ Ches @}----`--,-- http://www.io.com/~ches/ @}/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 22:42:55 -0500 From: Ruth Cooper Subject: Reply from lady with the veil trouble Susan asked why I was using cotton when silk was probably more period. Gwyndlyn said it nicely when she replied that cost was a factor and availability. Since, depending on which way I travel, it's 2-4 hours to decent shopping, I often have to rely on our SuperWalmart and overpriced fabric store in town for some items. I try to plan shopping trips when my budget allows as I am costuming a family of five. My friends who are "authenticity mavens" tell me that since cotton is a natural fabric it is acceptable to use when creating garb. I am trying to recreate as best as I can using modern materials the style of the time, I am told that is why it's called the Society for "Creative" Anachronism (quotes mine). I truly enjoy learning from the Costume Digest, everyone has such great information and they offer a variety of viewpoints on the subjects. I don't just read the items pertaining to my period only, I like learning about all the costuming. Who knows, I might learn a technique to help me with my chosen time period! I certainly learn more about history! No yelling, LET'S LEARN TOGETHER! Ruth Cooper; Kassia MacWilliams Stronghold of FalconRidge SCA Kingdom of Ansteorra MOC (Minister of Children) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 22:21:24 -0600 (MDT) From: Renee/Faustyna Subject: Re: the veil question Dear Cindy I happen upon a large piece of "brushed cotton" (at least that is what I was told it was called). It was white and it draped nicely but stayed where I put it so I used it for my whimple and veil. I looks really sharp and it breaths very nicely because it is all cotton. If you are going for the look and not the authenticity this worked for me. Also because I pre shrunk it, I can just throw it in the wash with bleach now to make it white again. Hope this helps Renee (if you are in the SCA Faustyna) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 21:34:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Agnes Gawne Subject: Re: Regency Museum collections On Tue, 23 Apr 1996, Althea Sexton wrote: > Is there any museum collections that have large collection of artifacts > from the early 1800s? I am traveling this summer, and would like to be > able to see the real thing. It would be best if the collection is in the > western states somewhere. I wouldn't call it a LARGE collection of early 19th century artifacts but the De Young Museum at Golden Gate Park in San Francisco does have a few items about the museum. My favorite to point out is the portrait of Mrs.Fitz Herbert (the "ilicit wife" of Prinny) painted by Gainsborough, in a room with Georgian furnishings, etc. Also, you might make arrangements with the costume curator if there are particular articles of the costume collection you are interested in studying. They do have a few articles dating back to the Regency. Consider saving your pennies and going to Bath, it is a treasure trove of Regency artifacts. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 07:53:32 -0400 From: Ngelina@aol.com Subject: Re: Regency Museum collections The Los Angeles County Museum of Art has a fairly decent collection of Regency-period garments. You may be able to make special arrangements to view their archives. Karen/Angelina ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 10:08:52 EDT From: CS23001@MAINE.maine.edu (Lisa A. Tyson) Subject: Scottish Women's Garments 1200-1600 I am interested in supplementing my ongoing research attempts in clothing worn by Scottish women across Scotland in the time period of 1200-1600. A good place to start is to ask if anyone here is currently interested in this topic that would like to correspond briefly on this discussion group or by private email. I would also like to access the archives for this discussion group, something I have not done, and need to be 'refreshed' as to how to request such information. If anyone can point me at a certain time frame in which this has been discussed, I would be most appreciative. I have been subscribed to this list since October 1995 and so have seen any 'recent' discussions posted. Since I am using a student account which has a limited life span (probably), I thought that in another two weeks I could contribute my small findings to this list discussion once my semester work is complete. I have a few citations from library books that may be of interest. I would welcome conventional post office correspondance with anyone as well. I rate myself as a beginner for sewing skills skills. I have been casually doing research in this area for persona development in the SCA, clothing being one aspect of my scottish persona. Thank you. Lisa Tyson ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #100 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!