From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #116 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Wednesday, May 15 1996 Volume 4, Number 116 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: COLOR NAMES: Renaissance Period 1500-1580 COLOR NAMES: Elizabethan Period 1580-1620 Re: Bonnet blank source(s) Re: Bonnet blank source(s) Re: Bonnet blank source(s) Re: cowboy boots Re: Cowboy Boots for Dancing Re: Bonnet blank source(s) Re: cowboy boots Colours and Boots Colours ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:58:57 -0400 From: Ladnier@aol.com Subject: COLOR NAMES: Renaissance Period 1500-1580 "Permission is given to copy and freely distribute this list as long as this header remains intact. No warrenty expressed or implied." (c) Penny E. Ladnier Send updates, corrections, additions and comments to me: s0peladn@cabell.vcu.edu COLOR NAMES THROUGH THE CENTURIES RENAISSANCE PERIOD 1500-1580 BRISTOL RED: Red used for garments. LINCOLN GREEN: Color used by archers, also named after the town, Lincoln where it originated. YELLOW: Used for mourning. RUSSET: 1512, Reddish brown or grey worn by countrymen. All previous information is documented in: "Costume in England: A History of Dress" ASH: 1518, Used for gowns and kirtles. RAT'S COLOR: 1518, Dull grey, worn by poor people. PUKE: 1522, Dirty Brown. REDDS, PINK, CROYDE, MOSTYNS, BROWN-BLUE, LIGHT GREYE, FRIAR COLOUR, LONG FINE BLUE: All color names used 1522 but more information is needed on them. POPINGAY GREEEN: 1522, Blue-green. LIGHT TAWNEY: 1522, Light yellowish tan. The following colors were the only colours made in England, during one time in the year 1522 by the order of King Edward VI. SCARLET: Red CRIMSON: Red MURREY: Mulberry colour SHEEP'S COLOUR: Natural PUKE: Dirty Brown ORANGE-TAWNEY: Worn often in plays. WATCHET: Blue LION'S COLOUR: Tawney, yellowish tan MARBLE, SAD NEW COLOUR, MOTLEY, and IRON GREY were also documented on the list, but are in need of more research. This is a group of King Edward's VI favorite colors, all from 1547-53: INCARNATE: Red CARNATION: Resembling the colour RAW FLESH BLOD, TURKEY, and SEA-WATER are color names documented in need of more research. This is a group of Mary Tudor's favorite color's names used in 1554: RUBY, CRANE, and OLD MEDLEY are documented in need of more research. Other color names used during the period: GOOSETURD GREENE: 1577, Yellowish green. THE DEVIL IN THE HEAD: 1577, Also called HEDGE. PEASE-PORRIGE TAWNIE, POPONGAIE BLUE, LUSTIE GALLANT and BISCAYE are all documented in the year 1577, but are in need of more research. WHEY: 1553, Pale bluish colour. COLEUR DE ROY: 1531, Bright TAWNEY color worn by the officials and servants of the King of Scotland. All the previous information is documented in: "Costume in the Drama of Shakespear and His Contemparies" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 15:09:48 -0400 From: Ladnier@aol.com Subject: COLOR NAMES: Elizabethan Period 1580-1620 "Permission is given to copy and freely distribute this list as long as this header remains intact. No warrenty expressed or implied." (c) Penny E. Ladnier Send updates, corrections, additions and comments to me: s0peladn@cabell.vcu.edu COLOR NAMES THROUGH THE CENTURIES ELIZABETHAN PERIOD 1580-1620 BRISTOL RED: A "pleasant" red. CANE COLOR: Yellowish tint. CARNATION: Resembling raw flesh CRANE COLOR: Greyish white DEAD SPANIARD: Pale greyish tan GINGERLINE: 1595, Reddish violet GOOSE-TURD: Yellowish green HAIR: Bright tan INCARNATE: Red ISABELLA: Light buff LINCOLN GREEN: Bright Green LUSTIE-GALLANT: Light Red MAIDEN HAIR: 1605, Bright tan MILK-AND-WATER: Bluish white MURREY: Purplish red ORANGE TAWNEY: Orangish brown PEACH: Deep pinkish orange PLUNKET: Light blue POPINJAY: Bluish Green PRIMROSE: 1597, Pale yellow PUKE: Dirty Brown RAT'S COLOR: Dull grey SANGYN: Blood red SHEEP'S COLOR: Natural STRAMMEL: 1575, Red STRAW: 1578, Light Yellow TAWNEY: Brown tinged with yellow WATCHET: Pale greenish blue WHEY: Pale whitish blue WILLOW: Light green Other color names used needing further research from this period: DOVE-GREY, PANSY, SCRATCH FACE, VERDIGRIS, DAWN, WATER-COLOR, BEANS-BLUE, APE'S LAUGH, CRISTALLINE, SMOKED OX, TRISTAMI, FLOWERING RYE, FADING FLOWER, GOSLING GREEN, CANARY, ARGENTINE, MERRY WIDOW, RESURRECTION, KISS-ME-DARLING, CHIMNEY-SWEEP, AMARANTH, FLAX-BLUE, BOTTLE GREEN, JUDAS-COLOR, OX-BLOOD, DYING MONKEY, BROWN BREAD, MORTAL SIN, HAM-COLOR, and LOVE-LONGING. All the previous information is documented in: "Elizabethan Costumes from 1550-1580". COVENTRY BLUE: Very popular color during Elizabeth's reign This information is documented in: "Costume in England: A History of Dress". Color names available at mercers and drapers during 1586-87. GENTLEMEN'S GRAY, PARTRIDGE, PHEASANT, BEGGAR'S GRAY, RAT, and GINGER. Names of colors that were accounted for in the Great Wardrobe and were popular during 1559. BRASELL, CELESTIAL, CLAY, DRAKE, FLYBERT, HORSEFLESH, MARIGOLD, MEAL, PALME, PEARL, SOPPES-IN-WINE, SYAMON, and TURTLE. MAIDE'S BLUSH: 1590, Rose color. All the previous information is documented in: "Costume in the Drama of Shakespear and His Contemparies". ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:00:51 -0700 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen) Subject: Re: Bonnet blank source(s) You wrote: >I am looking for a source for straw and/or felt bonnet blanks, I don't know for certain that felt was not used for bonnets in the 1830-1850 period, but I've never heard of felt being used for bonnets in the 1850-1867 time period. You might want to find out if you even want to look for felt bonnet forms. Straw is another story! That never seems to go out of use for head wear. I have seen two versions (deep and deeper :-)) of the straw 'tunnel vision' Shaker bonnets. This style was worn in the 1840's and appears to have remained a specialty bonnet style for decades after that. Unfortunately, I don't have a current sourc for them. Whoever does, I hope they post it to the list! I hope someone else has more helpful source information for you Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:34:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Shea Munroe Subject: Re: Bonnet blank source(s) Joan, I haven't found a source yet that I'm satisfied with for straw bonnets. Amazon Drygoods tends to be expensive and the quality is not very good. Their felt bonnets are better quality, but I only use them as a base and cover them. The photos and documentation I have seen to date have no indication that felt was used for ladies bonnets. I would like to hear if anyone else has found documentation - it sure would make things easier! I'm looking for the "Spoon" straw bonnet, of the same period. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:54:15 -0700 (MST) From: cwood@primenet.com (Ysabeau) Subject: Re: Bonnet blank source(s) >Joan, I haven't found a source yet that I'm satisfied with for straw >bonnets. Amazon Drygoods tends to be expensive and the quality is not >very good. Their felt bonnets are better quality, but I only use them as >a base and cover them. The photos and documentation I have seen to date >have no indication that felt was used for ladies bonnets. I would like to >hear if anyone else has found documentation - it sure would make things >easier! I'm looking for the "Spoon" straw bonnet, of the same >period. > A very clever lady that I know went to Walmart and bought one of their better quality straw hats--ripped the trim off and soaked it in water overnight, then reformed the straw into a shovel type hat, that looks exactly like the hat that Libbie Custer is wearing in the pictures of the 7th Cav line officers and their wives in the field in the mid 1870s. I haven't tried this myself, but fully intend to. Considering that hand woven straw hats from Walmart cost not much more than 10 bucks, I figure it is worth a try. Just be careful not to get the real shiny obviously synthetic large weave straw. I wonder if ladies ever used to do this--resoak and reform their straw hats? From a frugal standpoint it makes sense. Ysabeau ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 21:24:25 -0400 From: Gaelscot@aol.com Subject: Re: cowboy boots I find all this information on cowboy boots fascinating. Like many previous discussions (women's clothing and ornament in India comes to mind), it shows how much variation comes into even modern-day clothing, and how much of what is true about clothing can seem unlikely. Gail Finke/Gaelscot@aol.com PS: Julie Adams -- Is there a subject or period you don't know about? I don't mean that as a snide remark, I am truly amazed at your knowledge and versatility. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 20:42:01 -0500 From: recon36@server.iadfw.net (Ed Walton) Subject: Re: Cowboy Boots for Dancing >Women and children usually wore lace or button up boots with gators >over the calves and ankles for riding or hiking. Not exactly men's boots. >Not even close. The pointy toes and the angled heel types we think of on >modern "Cowboy boots" is not in evidence in the 19th century. I think they >became popular with the movie Westerns, especially the toes that can be >used to "kill the cockroach in the corner." In Texas, at least, you see pointy toes starting to appear about 1900-1910. Prior to that square toes, and straight stacked heel. This is probably the Mexican influence. I find it interesting that 1860's & 1870's cowboys (and others) acquired Mexican doo-dahs such as hats, boots, and tack at every opportunity. >NOT! Most English riding boots have a low heel even now. What Texan gives a hoot about limey booties? This irritated me so much I crawled out into the attic to get my old "working" boots (double soled, tall topped, mule hide, with really HIGH riding heels). I thought: In my whole life, I've never even owned a pair of boots with only a one inch heel. I found them and measured them. The result: 1.2" high on the outside, 1" high at the center of the sole. Oh well... >My >favorite riding footwear are tennis shoes, When I was a kid, I did this too, but I wouldn't want to do cowboy work in them. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --Ed Walton "Lost Battalions" Original and Reproduction WW2 Uniforms http://web2.airmail.net/recon36 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 21:01:10 -0700 From: gwjchris@ix.netcom.com (Bill and Glenna Christen) Subject: Re: Bonnet blank source(s) You wrote: >no indication that felt was used for ladies bonnets. I've never found evidence for felt bonnets or even hats (except to wear with a riding habit and hence of a 'masculine' styling). No one I've ever talked to has either. If they existed they must have been vanishingly rare! >I'm looking for the "Spoon" straw bonnet, of the same period. Spoon bonnets were a short lived bonnet style from roughly 1861 or '62 and pretty much gone a few years later. This post dates the 1830-50 time frame Joan is looking for. If you are still interested in a spoon bonnet, I know of a woman who is making beautifully trimmed and dead-on accurate ones. They aren't cheap, but they are wonderful! E-mail me directly if you'd like more details. Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 21:21:16 -0700 From: savaskan@electriciti.com (Julie Adams) Subject: Re: cowboy boots >PS: Julie Adams -- Is there a subject or period you don't know about? I don't >mean that as a snide remark, I am truly amazed at your knowledge and >versatility. Usually I just see a comment that strikes me as interesting and I look it up! Rather than giving an off the cuff answer, I try to add a book reference or two so you all can look the information up too. It probably makes me sound like a walking encyclopedia, but that's what is nice about email, its not realtime. I have quite an extensive costume/art library covering from medieval to modern. But I have participated in historical costuming/costuming book collecting for over 20 years, and over that time have tried most of the styles within the SCA period at one point or another for myself, significant others and friends. I have also been very active in a German Renaissance Military reenacting group (Landsknechtes) for quite sometime. I have participated off and on in the Mountain Man Rendezvous, sort of covering 1790-1840, and some early California events, such as the LHC Old California Faires, Dickens Faires for about 10 yrs. I was married in 1876 early bustle, an Old West wedding, and have participated in the Single Action Shooting Society from about year 3 or 4 - SASS #606, I heard they are in the 6 digit membership numbers now. The SASS period costuming covers from about 1870 to the modern campy Westerns. All activity in these has been cut severely since my son was born 2 1/2 yrs ago. In a year or two it will be easier to bring him along. There are lots of periods/places I know _nothing_ about! Geez! I am learning from you guys every day! Thanks...:-) More Western stuff: My 15 yr old neighbor girl called last night, an extremely poor planner, but she feeds my horses (for FREE!). "Help! I have to present a report tomorrow in character. Can I borrow something that an 1890s lady would wear?", totally assuming I would have whatever costume she might need! The only 1890s dress I have was made for Erin Harvey Moody's lovely 1890's wedding. My neighbor girl is about a size 10, I am ..um...slightly larger..:-) I had to say "sorry hun, I don't have anything that would fit you in that period. Only 1870s and they really don't look that much alike." She said she needed it to be 1890s. So I sat down to watch Larry McMurty's "Dead Man's Walk" and *BING*, Idea! I called her up and found that she her report was on Yosemite National Monument. Perfect! She came over and we made her into a true Girl of the West! She had on brown women's lace up boots, very high waisted canvas cowboy pants, a collarless striped shirt, a wool vest which can pass for a test pattern, a frock-backed duster, a reproduction french print bandana, and a 90's women's hat (sort of like Smokey the Bear wears:-) I didn't add the gun leather, even with a fake gun, cause it was for her school and I didn't think they'd appreciate it...:-) And I forgot to put spurs on her, but I am not sure I would send a kid to school with my antique spurs anyhoo. Of course I took out some books and showed her pictures of some women of the West in that period, wearing similar outfits, just in case her teacher questioned her. Couldn't resist..:-) My husband is on a business trip, and I mostly raided his closet (mostly stuff I made for him), but I held back lending out the cool shotgun chaps he made for himself. Interesting that this topic came up on the day I get two phone calls on Western costuming/shooting/guns from SCA friends who are now going "cowboy" as well. SASS is mostly a shooting club with a cowboy theme, vs a reenactment group, but they have some nice events and some with period encampment areas. Even though there is not a strict standard, because of the available documentation, the overall level of men's costuming is very high. The women's is getting better. Julie Adams ------------------------------ Date: 15 May 96 09:49:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Colours and Boots A couple of queries or comments. I love the information on colours, but I do have a query on the Renaissence Section about Yellow. The only comment I've ever seen on yellow in that connection is that it was worn by Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn on the death of Catherine of Aragon *as a demonstration of their pleasure* not as mourning. Has someone misunderstood this, or is there other documentation? I must confess I thought only black and white (French) were used for mourning. There is also a comment about Scarlet - apart from the colour, this was also a cloth which could come in a variety of colours. Boots As an English rider (well, I used to) I thought I would comment on the question of riding boots. The (modern) English posture is very different from the American (from what I've seen) and the saddle is very different, much lighter and you sit *on* it not *in* it. The American, or at least Western saddle looks much more like the jousting saddle. The stirrups are worn much shorter and the ball of the foot rests in the stirrup. If the foot slips so the stirrup is under the instep you lose balance and it is very painful (bruised instep!). The point of all this is that the heel on a riding boot is not there to stop the foot sliding through the stirrup, and is always very small. Looking at the 16th century, anyone rich enough to ride would have shoes as well as boots. It was rude to wear boots in the house, just as you would probably not wear pattens in the house. There is an interesting contrast here, shoes in this period were pretty disposable, and were not expected to last a long time (which clothes were). Lord Lisle (evidence from the 1530s when he was Governor of Calais) had 19 pairs of shoes made in 18 months as well as boots and indoors shoes (velvet etc). This is unremarked upon so it seems more likely they were worn out and thrown away than he was a 16th century Imelda Marcos! However, evidence from the Mary Rose shows shoe styles up to 100 years old - odd! Caroline Drawers If I tell a joke people don't get, I blame my telling, not their sense of humour. I thought the mailing on drawers that mentioned salaciousness was rude. She may not be interested in drawers, but then there are plenty of topics discussed on the list in which I am not interested - I just delete the mails. Actually, I will comment on one point - I know people working in the age of photography have their own problems (weighing the evidence) but you have so much evidence contrasted to the periods I'm interested in! I'm currently trying to find out what lower/middle class 15th century English women wore on their heads - and experts in the period are baffled. BTW has anyone any ideas? Must be English - there's a certain amount of Flemish evidence, which is what we are working on at the moment. ------------------------------ Date: 15 May 96 09:56:00 GMT From: Mrs C S Yeldham Subject: Colours Just checking the list again, I can give some information on 'Soppes-in-Wine'. This was a term used for pinks, or gillyflowers, the old fashioned pinks, which have a paler centre. So the colour was probably the colour of the flower. Soppes were pieces of bread which were used in various ways. Food was served on them, or they could be used in caudells and possets, strengthening drinks made of milk, ale or wine, often with eggs, sugar and spices. The flower seems to have reminded the Elizabethans of bread in wine. Caroline ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #116 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!