From: owner-h-costume-digest (H-Costume Digest) To: h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Subject: H-Costume Digest V4 #118 Reply-To: h-costume Sender: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Errors-To: owner-h-costume-digest@lunch.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk H-Costume Digest Thursday, May 16 1996 Volume 4, Number 118 Compilation copyright (C) 1996 Diane Barlow Close and Gretchen Miller Use in whole prohibited. Individual articles are the property of the author. Seek permission from that author before reprinting or quoting elsewhere. Important Addresses: Send submissions to: h-costume@lunch.engr.sgi.com (or reply to this message). Adds/drops/archives: majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com Real, live person: h-costume-request@andrew.cmu.edu Topics: Altering 1860s pattern Costume stuff in San Francisco Re: Colours and Boots Re: Cowboy Boots for Dancing need information Histroical uniforms Elizabethan Blues Re: Elizabethan Blues Re: need information Alteryears address 900 Years of English Costume Bata Shoe Museum tidbit AlterYears ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 21:40:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Allan Terry Subject: Altering 1860s pattern Ysabeau, In case this wasn't obvious, when I said "project the pattern to your bust [or waist] size," I meant "accounting for any darts, pleats, etc." In other words, subtract those out of the measurement. Hope that's clear. Fran Grimble ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 22:14:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Allan Terry Subject: Costume stuff in San Francisco Somebody asked about bookstores with costuming books in San Francisco, and I didn't have time to reply till now. This is not a bookstore. But the De Young Museum currently has two small exhibits including costume. "The Exoticized Woman and Her Allure in American Art, 1865-1917," which closes June 16, includes an 1880s dolman made from a Chinese shawl and a couple of early 20th-century Oriental-influenced outfits. "Classical Influences in Dress," which just opened and runs through November 17, includes eight outfits--two Regency period gowns, two Fortuny outfits, a 1910s dress, and three fairly modern evening gowns. There are also a number of small fashion plates, mostly early 19th-century. The museum bookstore has a few costume books, though not many. A Clean Well-Lighted Place's costume books appear to be carefully selected for content, either academic solidity or technical usefulness. A few of their fanciest costume books are in a locked glass-fronted case right across from the little station where they process your purchases. The employees will readily unlock the case and it is worth asking them to, since some of those books are hard to find anywhere else. Next to the locked case is a section with textiles, sewing, needlework, and antiques books. There is a new Rizzoli bookstore downtown--too new for the address to be in my San Francisco phone book. It is quite large and for a bookstore, swanky. It has a large fashion section that focuses on big, glitzy, color books. Most are on current fashion, but there are some on 20th-century haute couture, precious jewelry, and the like. With due respect to the person who recommended Green Apple Books on Clement Street, I went there quite recently and it was a bust. It's hard to find your way around--the bookstore covers what used to be several separate offices or flats, on different levels; has a mazelike arrangement of bookcases and narrow aisles; and focuses on sheer quantity rather than a careful selection of used books. (Almost all are used, though there are a few remainders.) I found the fashion/costume section in a narrow, tall bookcase all by itself in that part of the middle of the floor. However, I had a great deal of trouble looking at it. A male customer had selected a book to read (apparently cover to cover), and sat down by the bookcase with his torso at one end and his legs stretched completely across the rest of it. When I politely asked him to move over he announced that he would not let me look at the bookcase till he had finished looking at the books. But he was not looking at the books, he was reading one book at length, and there were plenty of other places he could have sat. He refused to shift his legs. He refused to let me look over his body at the top shelves. He announced that he would not let me anywhere near the case till he had finished, and suggested that I leave the store. Furthermore, he made the most insulting remarks I can remember ever experiencing--I mean, this guy was really out of line. Since apparently he had no intention of moving at any time in the near future, I had to go downstairs and get one of the employees to have him stand up and move over a couple of feet. And what did I find? Five shelves of used dress-for-success books and the like. The employee said that was all the fashion and costume books they had. I'm not sure how a store should prevent its customers behaving like this, but most of them seem to since I've never experienced anything like this before. If this is the type of customer Green Apple attracts, I'm certainly never going back. Fran Grimble ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 23:27:30 -0700 From: savaskan@electriciti.com (Julie Adams) Subject: Re: Colours and Boots Caroline wrote: > I'm currently >trying to find out what lower/middle class 15th century English women wore >on their heads - and experts in the period are baffled. BTW has anyone any >ideas? Must be English - there's a certain amount of Flemish evidence, >which is what we are working on at the moment. I looked through what I have (but mostly I've focused on the 16th cent.), It was pretty grim. I do have some nifty address books which have plates of women doing various pastimes and occupations, primarily from illuminated manuscripts, but they are French and Flemish. I have always found it difficult to document lower and middle class English women's clothing in the 16th cent., so I am sure its a problem with 15th c. as well. I would guess that a loosely wrapped white linen turban is pretty generic for the later 15th cent. peasant. If you are doing early 15th cent., a white linen veil/wimple combo would be pretty generic. I have seen a mid-16th cent. English campfollower wearing a turban style wrap in some military scene awhile back. It is also common to German and Italian peasants. So the style does span ethnic groups. Bummer:-( I think the best place to look would be in manuscripts though. FYI, I found the following: By Giovanni Boccaccio Des Cleres et nobles femmes French c. 1470 Carding and Spinning - - Three women wearing light brown aprons are carding and spinning. Two wear brown kerchiefs which look to be cut as 1/2 rounds with the front rolled back. They are shorter that the shoulders and must be pinned to hair. The spinner wears a white headcloth which drapes loosely to mid shoulder blades. Writer - - White veil and wimple. Veil is elbow length. By Giovanni Boccaccio Le Livre des clares et nobles femmes. French 15th cent. Woman Tailor Cutting out a pattern. - - Very bizarre looking orange/red hat, but the same style is also seen in some pictures of noblewomen. Looks like a tube with a knot on the top, with the front and sides flipped up. The front "brim" is taller and pointed in the front. Woman wears black apron and late 15th c. style dress. Sculptor - - She ears a white hood which lays smoothly from forehead to back (no folds) and is just touching the shoulders. It seems to have a long tail which is wrapped around over the head. Making a Net - - Looks to be the same type of hat as above. By Christine de Pisan Cite' des Dames Dutch Version c. 1475 Manor Lady supervising a woman gardner. - Gardner is wearing what looks like a long white bag hat with a wide forehead band. The bag part is flipped over her head. Note: Ankles and shoes show, dress is slightly short. By Dioscorides Tractatus de Herbis French 15th c. Collecting Honey - - Lady wears white loosely wrapped turban. Note: ankles and shoes show. Dress is slightly short. Frying Breads - - She wears a close fitting white cap which has a strap under the chin. Bunched and draped on her head and trailing down her back is a white veil. Unknown Artist Speculum Humanae Salvationis Country unknown 15th c. (British library) Decanting Wine - - Woman wears white apron and white veil and wimple. Veil comes to about bust length. By Rene' I d'Anjou L'instruction Dung Josne Prince French, 1470-80 Carrying Sacks of Grain to the Mill - - Women wearing white just past the shoulder-length veils, no circlet evident. By Rene' I d'Anjou Le morifiement de vaine plaisance. French, 15th cent. Carrying a sack of wheat to the mill. - - White waist-length veil and wimple. Unknown Artist Roman des Girart von Roussillon Flemish, 1447 Woman Builders (two pictures) - - Three double horned hennins with white wimples and white veils overall. One padded doughnut type hat with a veil looped through. By Platearius Livre des symples medichines, autrement dit Arboriste. French, 15th cent. Selling Jewelry and Silver - - Short hennin with veil (probably upper middle class) By Barthelemy l'Anglais Livre des proprietes des choses. French, 15th cent. Sweeping - -Woman wearing white apron. Her headcloth/veil is black and folded back from her forehead about 3-4". The veil is shoulder length in the front and waistlength in the back. By Jean Cuba Le jardin de sante' French, 1501 Shoveling Ashes - - white loose turban. Note: Dress is short and ankles show. Transporting Salt - -White loose Turban. By Bourdichon Les quatre etats de la societe. "La trevail" French, 15th cent. Family Scene, wife spinning with distaff - -Looks late 15th cent. Shows woodworker and family, woman wears white apron. She wears another black headcloth with front folded back. Again its a short one, only just longer than her shoulders. By Pol de Limbourg Les tres riches heures du duc de Berry. French, 15th cent. Haying, June - - One lady in a white veil, no visible circlet. The other has a loosely draped white turban with a short drape down over the neck. By Montferrant Les douze dames de rhetorique French, 15th cent. Miner - -Woman wears what looks to be a square-cut white kercheif, folded up and worn low over the forehead and the two ends of one side tied behind the head. The back of the cloth drapes down the back. Julie Adams ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 23:48:28 -0700 From: savaskan@electriciti.com (Julie Adams) Subject: Re: Cowboy Boots for Dancing >Besides which I think what Julie was trying to say about English riding >boots was that that not all traditional riding boots necessarily have to >have high heels to be effective riding boots. Yes! :-) For example, Medieval and Renaissance European or Middle Eastern Cavalry. > From her posts I gather she is Western to the core >and hardly sounds like some one wedded to the dressage way of doing things. I actually find the 19th cent. cowboy saddles really uncomfortable and a bit claustrophobic. I made some trashed antique trees into medieval saddles years ago. Eventually I'll get a new 19th cent. repro. But...I actually love my ancient English All-purpose saddle for comfort on a long ride. (I used to show Eng. as well as West. as a teen, and even took...eeek!..dressage lessons..:-) I think I figured out some ASCIIs to show the heel differences: viewed from the side: |____| 19th c. cowboy heel \____| - modern cowboy heel viewed from the rear: )____( |______| 19th c. \____/ - modern Julie Adams ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 08:54:05 -0400 From: Kimlhart@aol.com Subject: need information This year is the Bicentennial of Cleveland, Ohio. I am a professional costumer and have several requests for 1796 clothing. I need sources for patterns. I was given the name of Alter Years but have been unable to locate them. Could someone post their address and/or phone number for me. I also need a source for costume quality kilts or a pattern. Any suggestions. Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 08:58:48 -0400 (EDT) From: dressage@norfolk.infi.net (Michael L. Klein) Subject: Histroical uniforms I am still looking for the following uniforms made: Russian Cossack's uniform (1894-1918) Soviet Army (with parade cap and also the ones in which they wear the garrison hats with, complete with tall black boos), Air Force (with the blue and white striped under shirt and the beret, talll black boots), I am also looking for a Russian Sailor's uniform (White and blue ones) as well. Also I am still waiting for a reply. If you can't help me, or if I'm in the wrong place, steer me in the right direction. dressage@norfolk.infi.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 08:14:26 -0600 From: Catherine Kinsey Subject: Elizabethan Blues >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only after I made the dress did I find the Elizabethan costume source (Costume in the Drama of Shakespeare and his Contemporaries) Penny also used. From the very nicely descriptive text, I found that my color was (as close as I could tell) "watchet" as opposed to other hues of blue -- and also that blue was, at the time, used by servants! A blue costume in a contemporary play would by itself indicate that the wearer was a servant. Needless to say, this wasn't meant to be a servant's dress. Luckily for me, I wasn't wearing it for an Elizabethan audience! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< This is not the first time I have heard this yet the only source I have seen on it is the Elizabethan Costume book by the California Faire team. Can anyone more familiar with the drama of the period give me some additional references? I have seen sources (sorry, they are at home) describing Mary Queen of Scots wearing blue and I would hardly call her a servant :). Cat' ckinsey@kumc.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 09:35:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Astrida E B Schaeffer Subject: Re: Elizabethan Blues I've just finished a paper on clothing & the English Civil War, (contemporary reactions to it, more than a study of its specifics) and in the process of researching it came across several mentions of blue being for servants. I'm at work at present, so I don't have access to the heap of books, but one in particular was _Dressed for the Job_, a book on occupational clothing. Also, as has already been mentioned, Linthicum's _Costume in the Drama of Shakespeare_. Astrida *************************************************************************** Astrida Schaeffer "All life on Earth is a fairy tale in which outlandish creatures pursue impossible lives" - Rutherford Platt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 10:17:29 -0400 From: Kevin Richard-Morrow Subject: Re: need information At 08:54 AM 5/16/96 -0400, you wrote: >I am a professional >costumer and have several requests for 1796 clothing. I need sources for >patterns. >I also need a source for costume quality kilts or a pattern. Any >suggestions. Thank you. > > Can't help with Alter Years but can suggest a source for clothes AND kilts patterns. Smoke & Fire Meyers, Dorlyn, and David Weir P.O. Box 166 Grand Rapids, MI 43522 Kevin Richard-Morrow ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 9:32:18 -0500 (CDT) From: "SHERYL J. NANCE" Subject: Alteryears address >I was given the name of Alter Years but have been unable to locate >them. Could someone post their address and/or phone number for me. Alteryears (formerly Raiments) is located at 3749 E. Colorado Blvd, Pasadena, CA, 91107. Numbers are Phone: (818) 585-2994 Fax: (818) 432-4530. Catalog is $5. HTH! Sheryl J. Nance ...one of the secret masters of Kansas City MO Public Library the world: a librarian. They p_sheryl@kcpl.lib.mo.us control information. Don't ever p**s one off. - Spider Robinson, _The Callahan Touch_ (Opinions expressed in this message do not reflect the viewpoint of the Kansas City MO Public Library.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 11:03:17 -0400 From: BarbMVD@aol.com Subject: 900 Years of English Costume It is possible that some of the ongoing questions I have seen might be answered in a book I have found quite useful. 900 Years of English Costume: from the Eleventh to the Twentieth Century by Nancy Bradfield is detailed and well illustrated. It differentiates between class, refers to colors, fabrics, men and women's clothing from head to toe. I have the 1987 edition pub. by Crescent Books, Brown Publishers. ISBN 0-517-61670-X Barbara Delorey BarbMVD@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 10:07:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Deb Subject: Bata Shoe Museum tidbit Did anybody else hear the blurb on the radio this morning, saying that the Bata Shoe Museum in Canada http://www.hype.com/toronto/attractions/bata.htm (plus other addresses, if you search for the name) has bought a pair of shoes and stockings worn by Napoleon? (I think it was Napoleon. It was somebody of that time period. I was half asleep, and don't remember the $$ figure, either.) Deb Baddorf baddorf@fnal.gov ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 11:32:06 -0400 (EDT) From: RMITCHELL@washjeff.edu Subject: AlterYears Others have given the AlterYears address. Kathleen just got their new catalogue. She calls it smashing: bigger and better than ever - one of the best resources. Impressive book list. She recommends it. Regards - Lloyd Mitchell for Kathleen ------------------------------ End of H-Costume Digest V4 #118 ******************************* A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, send the command lines: unsubscribe h-costume-digest subscribe h-costume end in the body of a message to majordomo@lunch.engr.sgi.com. Thanks and enjoy the list!