From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 4 18:25:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25820 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:25:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA02251; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:33:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA02105 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:32:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA02079 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:32:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from gia-g (dialup743.serv.net [207.207.65.107]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA16908 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:32:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <003701be383a$f0671a60$6b41cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: "Costume List" Subject: Fw: H-COST: SCA Costuming Rules? Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:35:36 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Something went wrong and this didn't post to the list..Please forgive the repeat.. -----Original Message----- From: Gia Gavino-Gattshall To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sunday, January 03, 1999 9:16 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA Costuming Rules? >Greetings! > >Sarah, you responded with some wonderful ideas! But as far as I know there >aren't any *Rules for Costuming in the SCA*. All I know about is >the general info of "reasonable attempt". > >The best place to get information is to contact the local Costumer's Guild >(SCA). They usually have a 'library' or at the very least a list of >reliable resources to help the costumer get a look and feel of what's period >or not. > >There's also Penny's web Page, if the costumer is not inclined to contact >strangers. A wonderful web site!! I have used it frequently. And she has a >wonderful section on colors. > >http://www.costumegallery.com/research.htm > >http://members.aol.com/nebula5/costume.html > >http://www.metmuseum.org/ > >http://www.lacma.org/lacma.htm > >http://mistral.culture.fr/louvre/louvrea.htm > >http://www.lib.washington.edu/Art/internet.html > > >The Costume Page and the Museums that have pictures online are also great. > >But if you can, do ask someone. If you've seen someone that has impressive >garb, talk to him/her about his/her resources, etc. > >Good luck! > >OASN: This is *seriously* OT (sorry listers! SCA specific is a no-no!), so >if you have questions re: resources, you can email privately to those you >see have SCA affiliations in their emails. > >Gia/Giacinta > >>1)Boris Valejo, and DragonLance Series Book covers, and D+D handbooks, are >>not good places for ideas.. or even to look. groovey for fantasy, but >>should never be considered in even a half-attempt at period costuming. >> >>2)Dispell all ideas from Disney, and (most) film, and most low budget >>theatre. (not to slander those who work on these projects..you work very >>hard. but the objectives are often different) >> >>3)If it is shiney, glittery, without being at least glass, or real >>metalics you most likely will look fake. (unless great care to >>individualize is taken) >> >>4)Lame' is evil. >> >>5)Commercial trims available at Chain stores are 'iffy' at best. Try >>Religious supply houses, and ethnic shops (such as Those found in Little >>India, and import export stores) >> >>6)Body Type should not be an excuse to alter pattern styles. ex. I have >>seen sideless surcotes worn with Rennaisance Chemises(and nothing else), >>becausee they felt 'bloated' and didn't want to wear the fitted dress that >>went with it. >> >>7)There is no excuse for not doing your research. (even if you flip >>through an art history book, look at the date on the painting, and say "I >>want that" is a good start) >> >>8)Cheap materials make cheap costumes. (Cheap as in chinzy... God knows >>theres some fabulously created costumes out of inexpensive materials) >> >>9)Torn trim, ripped fabric/garb is not appropriate. Nor is using your >>persona to excuse bad costuming allowed. (Oh I just came back from a >>battle/ Oh I'm too poor to sew dowm my trim) >> >>10)handiwork is second only to cleanliness on that way to godliness. It >>is _amazing_ what little details will do for a costume. It can propel >>T-Tunic... into T-Terrific. (am I sounding peppy now? :-) >> >>11)pictures, pictures, pictures. no- guesswork. It is a good idea to >>show the 'newbie' the obvious differences between primary medivael source, >>and 18th centurey re-drawing of primary medieveal source (Ex, Violette Le >>Duc) >> >>12) just becasue it is your first piece of 'garb' does not mean that it >>should be a half attempt. The SCA is full of generous individuals, who >>have all types of costume closets open for eager beginners. use them >>first to see if you like the group. THEN, save your pennies, for the good >>stuff. >> >>13)If nothing else, Learn the period silouettes. know viking=boxy, >>11thcent= got more fitted, 12th= even more so. 13th= cotehardies. 14th= >>houpellande, 15th= gather in the waist of the houpelande until it >>fits.(this is the one word descrption --It does NOT substitute for >>primary source materials--- see #11) Learn to recogognize them in >>pictures. >> >>14) Never underestimate the importance of good ascessories. Headgear, >>jewelry, shoes are easily made, and often overlooked... and without them, >>even the most period dress can be looked down upon. >> >>15)Ask questions. Nicely. >> >>OK,I hope that helps out. >> >>Sarahj >> >> >>**2Y's**UR**2Y's**UB**IC**UR**2Y's**4Me** >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME >> > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 4 23:29:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27255 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 23:29:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA29534; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 21:37:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA09062 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 21:35:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id VAA09029 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 21:35:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 25927 invoked from network); 5 Jan 1999 04:36:06 -0000 Received: from tntmodem3-93.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.135.93) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 1999 04:36:06 -0000 Message-ID: <36919A64.4D05@mc.net> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 20:51:48 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: SCAstuff References: <199901042046.NAA01681@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Heather Law > - -Poster: Merouda the True > > > Please pardon me if this request is inappropriate for your group, but > > I > > am looking for an on line list of SCA Costuming rules or guidelines. The years are 600 to 1600 AD, with tolerance for Cavalier ("3-Musketeers Look). If you'll send me your email addy, I'll send you a list of my favorite sites, plus several SCA web pages. Also, you would be up to your ears in help, I think, if you joined the SCA-Garb list, at http://www.coollist.com Not only will you get help, you will also find every "cheat-sheet" method in the book, all designed to make garb *more* authentic, comfortable, and **durable**. SCA also publishes a series of mini-books, $4 apiece, and usually pretty carefully researched, about various types of garb (Viking, Byzantine, Russian, Japanese, European (of course) etc., and also, such things as how to choose fabric appropriate for the period. Since folks on this list occasionally express having "had their fill" of SCA stuff, please contact me at lynnx@mc.net and I'll be happy to steer you in some hopefully helpful directions. In service, Heather Law, s.k.a. Sister Ed the Disorganized _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 10:52:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA03580 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:52:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA17160; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:01:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA01449 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 08:59:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA01428; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 08:59:03 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 08:59:03 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901051559.IAA01428@indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA Costuming Rules? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >Most folks follow the 10 foot rule. If it looks good at 10 feet, it's okay. I know that this rule gets quoted over and over for SCA and Faire purposes, but I wish it would stop. It's appropriate for theatrical performances, not for up-close work. If everyone in the SCA stood 10 feet away from each other, it would make sense, (although it would make fighting and dancing tough) but they don't. I think a two-foot rule would be a better guideline. As to the poster who's looking for advice, I know that you're a busy business woman, but if you're getting enough SCA clients for you to feel you need help, it would probably be worth your time to go to a few events and do some field research. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 11:21:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA03694 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:21:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA20517; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:31:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA06911 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:29:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA06898 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:29:08 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip100.van15.pacifier.com [216.65.137.100]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA13110 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 08:29:05 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901051629.IAA13110@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 08:28:43 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4.1.19990105054420.00b60b40@pop.slip.net> References: <19990105113322.746.qmail@hotmail.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > ><_For the period 1750 onwards, what evidence is there to suggest how > >much the >by wearing stays._ > > I heard a story about a woman during whose autopsy they found rib-marks on > her liver from tight lacing. I have no way of knowing if this is true or > urban legend. This is not just urban legend. I used to have a medical book which had photographs of autopsies. In it they had several photographs of "the evils of wearing corsets". The livers were very oddly shaped, like an elongated hour glass. It often pushed up into the cavity meant for the lungs as well as deep into the pelvis. There were rib marks on at least one of the livers that I can recall. I no longer have the book but you might be able to go to a medical school library and find it in their old book section. It might also be in the anatomy or physiology section (as I recall it being an anatomy book.) Even in this day and age you can get corset related liver problems, just ask Dolly Pardon. When they were working out respiratory physiology (the study of how the breathing system works) in the 19th century, they thought that men and women had different ways of breathing because that's the way that they were made by God. It wasn't until the 20th Century when corsets were less common that they noticed that some women "breathed like men." Tight lacing definitely has an effect on one's breathing and heart function. Even a moderately laced corset should never be suddenly decompressed (like the sword swipe lace cutting) unless the person is actually in cardiac arrest. Otherwise you may *cause* cardiac arrest. It's no wonder that those tight laced women tended to faint more easily than a women now would. She didn't have the lung capacity she needed for any extended exercise. Also, she was at more risk for lung infections because of atelectesis (partial lung collapse caused by inadequate expansion of the lungs. That's the reason why they have you do deep breathing exercises with the little blow tube apparatus after major abdominal surgery.) Interestingly, she may have had slightly less risk of dying of TB than a person of equal health. Almost everyone had TB until they developed drugs to fight it. In almost everyone it was inactive because it was encapsulated by the body in calcium. If one got ill with something or sometimes as a result of pregnancy/lactation, the body would reabsorb the calcium, thus releasing the tuberculosis bacterium. (That's probably why Edward VI sickened so after he had a case of measles. Although some people think he died of complications of congenital syphilus, he didn't have the right teeth for that and his health prior to the measles was relatively good for such a pampered little boy. However, from the descriptions, he was definitely consumptive.) Once you had active TB, even in this century one of the ways of treating it which actually worked was to tightly bind the rib cage. They even went so far as to do things to ribs make them collapse. (TB is very sensitive to oxygen. Decrease it's oxygen supply and it doesn't grow well.) This sort of leads me to another subject: rib removal. I've heard it mentioned many times that this would have been impossible to do without killing the women. Actually, it wasn't. While I have only heard of one documented case of it for the sake of tight lacing (a famous actress of the day), it was done for the sake of treating TB. They could remove ribs in such a way that it will regrow in a collapsed position. My father had it done before antibiotics were available. (He just died this Halloween at age 93. He was lucky enough to be within a week of dying in a hospital back in the 1940s when they were experimenting on people nearly dead of TB. He was lucky enough to be in the group which got PAS/isoniazid instead of the control group who all died on schedule.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 11:39:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA03752 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:39:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA22217; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:48:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA09809 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:45:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from centum.utulsa.edu (centum.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.199]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id JAA09791 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:45:48 -0700 (MST) Received: by centum.utulsa.edu for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:48:25 -0600 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:48:25 -0600 From: "I. Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Message-Id: <990105104825.1f6480@centum.utulsa.edu> Subject: H-COST: 10' Rule Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" > >>Most folks follow the 10 foot rule. If it looks good at 10 feet, it's okay. >I know that this rule gets quoted over and over for SCA and Faire purposes, >but I wish it would stop. It's appropriate for theatrical performances, not >for up-close work. If everyone in the SCA stood 10 feet away from each >other, it would make sense, (although it would make fighting and dancing >tough) but they don't. I think a two-foot rule would be a better guideline. Ma'am, while I would personally prefer a two-foot, or even a two-millimeter rule, I am content to encourage a ten-foot rule for accuracy since, to judge from what I have seen at various things (including, but not limited to, SCA and Faires) even -that-'s exceeding some people's levels of interest and willingness. I don't mean to criticize those people in those venues who are doing some darned good work. I'm just saying that I find the "ten foot rule", a good, non-threatening, basic standard to encourage when dealing with people or places that have no other rigidly held standards. It is true that when educating people in what is historically accurate, an "audience" may remain ten feet or more away, while when dealing with people in small groups they will likely come much closer than that, but it is my understanding that most groups who are dealing with educating the public maintain much tighter standards than a mere "ten-foot rule". Faires and the SCA do not exist to educate the public, and so I do not expect them to adhere to the rigid guidelines of those people who do. If they can be encouraged, as non-threateningly as possible, to help with educating themselves and each other by dressing to a ten-foot standard, that's really all we can hope for. Now, if you want to get into whether or not the SCA or RenFaires *should* have a universal standard for accuracy, I'll be happy to talk about that offlist (since even if it *were* an appropriate topic for this list, it's not a topic I choose to discuss publically), but really I think the question is one of realistic expectations, and the frustrations of pushing people into running who have not yet learned to walk. Disagreements and flames may be directed to Marc Carlson LIB_IMC@centum.utulsa.edu _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 12:09:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03878 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:09:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA25216; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:17:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA15668 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:15:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA15659 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:15:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19340 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:15:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369248CF.31871FCD@serv.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 09:15:59 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA Costuming Rules? References: <199901042046.NAA01645@indra.com> <19990104.222144.25342.7.seamstrix@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > >Most folks accept that the more research and the more accurate > >the better, but also accept that not everyone is capable. > I have to take exception to the phrase 'not capable'. Unless one is > illiterate and/or blind, research is certainly 'capable' if the person > 'cares' to do it. Not everyone knows how to sew for one thing. And to learn how to sew and do the research before going to your first event so that you can have a researched costume? Let me rephrase. Not everyone *wants* to be capable of sewing. Maybe they want to spend their precious spare time learning how to make armour. Thank god for merchants. Maybe we should require that the *merchants* at the events only sell researched clothing. Merchants selling fantastical historical clothing are probably the most responsible for the image of poor research. > I'll admit it. But I have never and will never slam a person for a bad > outfit. If they ask I will try to gently and kindly point out aspects to > improve or resources they could try. The only unsolicited feedback I will > give is a compliment. Excellent. I try to do this as well. I for one tend to close my ears whengiven unkind criticism, but kindly compliments from a well dressed gentle always inspires me to try harder next time. :) > I resent that having high standards of authenticity > is often confused with the people who seem to be trying to build up their > own egos by cutting other people down. Huzzah! I am just amazed by the stories I hear. In agreement, Cynthia -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 12:11:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03888 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:11:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA25552; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:20:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA16166 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:18:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA16148 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:18:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p20.directcon.net [206.170.184.69]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA28016 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:14:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:14:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901051714.JAA28016@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 10:48 AM 1/5/99 -0600, you wrote: > >-Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" >Ma'am, while I would personally prefer a two-foot, or even a two-millimeter >rule, I am content to encourage a ten-foot rule for accuracy since, to judge >from what I have seen at various things (including, but not limited to, SCA >and Faires) even -that-'s exceeding some people's levels of interest and >willingness. I don't mean to criticize those people in those venues who are >doing some darned good work. I'm just saying that I find the "ten foot rule", >a good, non-threatening, basic standard to encourage when dealing with people >or places that have no other rigidly held standards. > Perhaps I should call it a guideline rather than a rule. At any rate, telling newcomers that it's okay to do bad work or use bad materials because it'll look okay from ten feet away is doing them a diservice. Why not help them get started at a reasonable level? It's just not that much harder. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 12:16:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03937 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:16:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA26113; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:25:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA16910 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:23:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA16902 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:23:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from gia-g (dialup713.serv.net [207.207.65.77]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA03122 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:23:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000c01be38d0$918ad360$4d41cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: rules of the list? Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:26:42 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Please forgive me...I belong to the SCA...I was merely trying to beg forgiveness of those who are sensitive about using the list to promote the SCA. Again, begging forgiveness for seeming to slight the SCA I love and participate in. Gia/Giacinta -----Original Message----- From: Sandra J. Westergren To: costume ml Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 10:17 PM Subject: H-COST: rules of the list? > >-Poster: "Sandra J. Westergren" > > >>OASN: This is *seriously* OT (sorry listers! SCA specific is a no-no!), >so >>if you have questions re: resources, you can email privately to those you >>see have SCA affiliations in their emails.< > >Could the list manager refresh our memories about the rules for this list? >What are the qualifications, education, and affiliations necessary to be a >part of this sharing of knowledge? >For what reasons can your membership here be denied? >And please tell me if SCA specific topics really are a no-no. If so, then >I would hope the list of no-nos would also include: >Civil War specific >Movie specific >Ren Fest specific >Halloween specific >Victorian specific >Edwardian specific >. . . . . . . . >The listing could go on entirely too long. > >Usually I read such negative statements concerning the SCA and forgive and >forget. But I have seen SCA being singled out so often and rarely (if >ever) does any other thread get the same treatment. It leaves me pondering >what the Society does or stands for that puts such a nasty taste in the >mouths of historical costumers. I read sane, logical, and researched posts >with a signature line proudly proclaiming SCA participation. I recognize >names of others who, for reasons that may include avoidance of ridicule, >purposely keep their SCA standing secret from this list. I see many who >wished to learn from the collective wealth of knowledge held herein only to >be belittled and sent away simply for mentioning three letters. > >If the SCA is not welcomed, then proclaim that from the beginning. Ask the >questions and deny access to all who dare speak the words Society for >Creative Anachronism. I, for one, will walk away gladly. For in the SCA I >have found acceptance unmatched by this list. I have found courtesy and >noble bearing. I revel in the respect given to any interest one cares to >persue, to any degree of expertise one can manage. And I have seen many >well researched and exquisite articles made by those within Society ranks. >It saddens me that their knowledge of historical costume seems to be >unwelcomed on a list whose purpose is the study of clothing through the >ages. It hurts even deeper to realize that SCA affiliation destroys the >chance to ask questions and learn. > >Please let me know if I am no longer welcomed, for I am >Mistress Cassandra of the Western Green, Member of the Order of the Laurel >for costuming, abiding in the Barony of Nordskogen within the starry lands >of Northshield, proud daughter of the Midrealm and card carrying member of >the SCA since 1985. >also known as >Sandra Westergren from Minneapolis Minnesota USA, sewing since the age of >10 > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 12:25:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04213 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:25:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA27205; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:34:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA18525 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:32:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA18509 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:32:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19381 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:32:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36924CC3.1DBCE38E@serv.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 09:32:51 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays References: <19990105113322.746.qmail@hotmail.com> <199901051629.IAA13110@smtp.pacifier.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True Thank you for this most informative post. Thank god your father lived. :) Cynthia > This is not just urban legend. I used to have a medical book which > had photographs of autopsies. In it they had several photographs of > "the evils of wearing corsets". > This sort of leads me to another subject: rib removal. I've heard it > mentioned many times that this would have been impossible to do > without killing the women. Actually, it wasn't. -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 12:45:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04282 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:45:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA29509; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA20223 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:41:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from sun.rmci.net (sun.rmci.net [205.162.184.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id KAA20204 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:41:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 26753 invoked from network); 5 Jan 1999 17:37:17 -0000 Received: from pag-di51.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.51) by sun.rmci.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 1999 17:37:17 -0000 Message-ID: <36924C8D.4B4B26CD@rica.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 12:31:58 -0500 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Major Design Project -- Need sources! References: <199901042046.NAA01645@indra.com> <19990104.222144.25342.7.seamstrix@juno.com> <369248CF.31871FCD@serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jennie Chancey Back again after Christmas/New Year's vacation, and I've just been handed a huge project that is quite exciting. A new catalogue (which must remain nameless for now) is starting up, which will feature authentic, high quality historical/nostalgic toys for boys. Kind of like the American Girls line with the dolls and matching historical outfits, this new catalogue would like to offer five or six complete outfits for boys that go along with a story from the past, like Sergeant York, Davy Crockett, Squanto, etc. I have been asked to design the outfits, and I am very excited to do so. However, because the company has never done anything in the clothing area before, they do not know where to go to hire the labor to have the outfits made. They do not want to use China or Mexico (sweatshops), but they do need to be able to order 500-1000 outfits at a pop and keep them in stock in three sizes (3-5 year old; 6-9 year old; 10-12 year old). I know a lot of great seamstresses out there who make boys' reenacting clothing, etc., but I am clueless when it comes to outsourcing something this huge. Does anyone on the list know of a company or group that can make good quality clothing (not Halloween costume "cheap-os," but not reenactment quality goods, either)? I would appreciate any and all suggestions. I'm going to get on the net and look around, but I seriously doubt I'll find something without a referral. And I do need to be able to make sure they do not use underpaid or "free" labor. Thanks much! Jennie Chancey -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 12:53:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04312 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:53:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA00564; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:02:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA23374 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:59:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA23338 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:59:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.out) with ESMTP id JAA05125 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:55:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 09:47:21 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays References: <19990105113322.746.qmail@hotmail.com> <199901051629.IAA13110@smtp.pacifier.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press > > > This sort of leads me to another subject: rib removal. I've heard it > mentioned many times that this would have been impossible to do > without killing the women. Actually, it wasn't. While I have only > heard of one documented case of it for the sake of tight lacing (a > famous actress of the day), it was done for the sake of treating TB. > They could remove ribs in such a way that it will regrow in a > collapsed position. My father had it done before antibiotics were > available. (He just died this Halloween at age 93. He was lucky > enough to be within a week of dying in a hospital back in the 1940s > when they were experimenting on people nearly dead of TB. He was > lucky enough to be in the group which got PAS/isoniazid instead of > the control group who all died on schedule.) But did they remove ribs in the 19th century or earlier? I don't know much about medical history. But I believe that in the 1940s doctors were aware of how to prevent infection (formerly a major cause of post-surgical death) by keeping all tools, etc. free of bacteria. They also may have had better surgical techniques than in the 19th century. I think by the 1940s they had sulfa drugs (which are not strictly speaking antibiotics but which combat infections; when I was a child people allergic to penicillin were given sulfa drugs). There is also a difference between whether a doctor will perform a serious, even potentially fatal operation in the hope of saving the life of someone who would probably die without it, and whether the doctor would perform the same operation for purely cosmetic reasons. Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 13:13:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04389 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:13:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA02822; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:22:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA27082 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:20:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA27071 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:20:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19564 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:20:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36925569.9640E596@serv.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 10:09:45 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule References: <199901051714.JAA28016@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > Perhaps I should call it a guideline rather than a rule. At any rate, > telling newcomers that it's okay to do bad work or use bad materials > because it'll look okay from ten feet away is doing them a diservice. Why > not help them get started at a reasonable level? It's just not that much > harder. Less than 2 years ago, I was a newcomer in the SCA. One of the first things I was told was the 10 foot guideline. And thank god for the guideline. I spent days sewing and embroidering and beading a tunic. No sleeve tunic. Darts and a zipper. Poly twill. I just put it in the gold key box. *urp* It was really nice actually, just no way was it period. I wore it with a calf length silk velvet circle skirt and my biker boots. I'm cracking up typing this. My god, the tunic was navy, the skirt plum. I wore a crocheted leather top over all this as fake chain mail. *sigh* *laugh* Some nice lady was even kind enough to compliment me on the skirt. The fabric *was* gorgeous. I just finished a gorgeous velvet cotehardie with silk embroidery, pearls, and garnets. The buttons, button holes, and eyelets are straight out of the Museum of London's Textile book. I have documentation for the velvet, both as a fabric and as a color, red. I can document the embroidery and the beadwork. I have made a reticulated head dress and have a nice metal hip belt. I made the linen undergarment completely by hand with linen thread. I have pointy shoes although I need some work on that, and all my seams are finished in a period manner. If I had time to pull the documentation together and write the paper in three days, I would enter it in the Court Garb contest this weekend at Coronation / Twelth Night. Why this long story? Well, to illustrate that 10' foot rule helped me be comfortable enough to attend a *second* event. If I had been made to feel like a complete idiot, I never would have returned. I was nervous enough as it was. I was so grateful that the SCA was so accepting of my first attempts. My gold key donation box is full. *G* Half my fabric stash has gotta go too. But I was so inspired by all the lovely period clothing that I couldn't wait to get home and go to the library and the fabric store. The fabric stores of Seattle, WA, are grateful that the SCA was so welcoming as well. They have made a fortune on me. The progress of my research is documented in the clothing I made. Each gown got better and better. I am currently planning an Italian Renn, a Tudor, and an Elizabethan. For the the next three annual costume contests. This should keep me busy until 2002. heh. So, in my not so humble ( ;-> ) opinion, I think the 10' foot rule encouraged me to come back and learn something. What I have learned in the last 2 years has been phenomenal (everything I know about historical costuming I learned in this 2 year period). And what I have found is my life's passion. Not bad I think, Cynthia -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 13:28:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04455 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:28:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA04880; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:38:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA29880 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:35:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from echo.flash.net (echo.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA29835 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:35:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p34.amax16.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.68.34]) by echo.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA27410 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:34:13 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36925A4E.E297A75F@flash.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 12:30:38 -0600 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Subject: H-COST: H-Needlework list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Charlene Charette I'm sorry to have committed a netiquette faux pas. I reference another list and didn't provide an address. The historical needlework list can be found at h-needlework@ansteorra.org. To join, send a message to majordomo@ansteorra.org. Or you can visit http://lists.ansteorra.org/lists.html to join any number of lists. I'll be gone 1/8/99-1/17/99 so if you have any problems getting on or off the h-needlework list I won't be able to help until I return. You can reach me at owner-h-needlework@ansteorra.org or charlene@flash.net. --Charlene -- No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible. -- Stanislaus Lezczynski _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 13:46:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04570 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:46:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA06769; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:55:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA02922 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:53:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from ic.net (ic.net [152.160.8.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id LAA02912 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:53:01 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901051853.LAA02912@indra.com> Received: (qmail 6630 invoked from network); 5 Jan 1999 18:57:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO p3.a1.56k.ic.net) (152.160.117.3) by unknown with SMTP; 5 Jan 1999 18:57:09 -0000 From: "Steve & Michelle Plumb" To: "historic costume group" Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 13:12:42 -0400 Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: H-COST: Fwd: HELP Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Steve & Michelle Plumb" Hello! I am forwarding this message on behalf of Donna, a member of the Knitlist. She has a costuming question. Please send the answers to her at: huntdn@aimnet.com Thanks! Michelle =================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================= HELP Completely off the knitting subject. A dear friend of mine is writing a book and asked me a question that made my mind blank! I know---big surprise!!!! Would a man (young man) wear a shirt of flax about 1000 years ago? I had such a good laugh, because I can't remember what I wore yesterday half the time let alone 1,000 years ago. If there is anyone out there that can answer this, or tell me what was worn, John and I would be grateful. Have a great week everyone. Donna Hunt and the Girls (Toaster and Indy) Livermore, Ca. Even in 1999 Knitting is still Chicken Soup for my Soul. ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 13:46:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04574 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:46:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA06842; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:55:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA02952 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:53:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (artemis.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA02945 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:53:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc (ppp19.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.139]) by artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA02650 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:54:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004801be38dd$04911f20$8ba06480@dsc> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: Rib removal Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:55:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! Fran said, >There is also a difference between whether a doctor will perform a serious, even >potentially fatal operation in the hope of saving the life of someone who would >probably die without it, and whether the doctor would perform the same operation >for purely cosmetic reasons. Precisely. I can't see anyone in the 19th century wanting to undergo elective surgery for *any* reason. (Does anyone know when cosmetic surgery as we know it started being done?). I've also heard "rib removal" posited for periods as far back as the 16th century (which demonstrates a misunderstanding of the purpose of earlier corsets), which is even scarier to think about. Rib removal rumours are still with us. We just had a thread discussing "rib removal in supermodels" in alt.folklore.urban (conclusion: removal of the lower ribs would probably produce the reverse of the desired effect, since they hold organs in place); there's also the one that crops up from time to time regarding rock stars (currently the trendy one is Marilyn Manson) who do this to, uh, fellate themselves (also no proof....) Rib removals happen. The supermodels thread in a.f.u. brought up one instance of a major league pitcher who had one of his ribs (in this case, one of the upper ones) removed to increase circulation in his pitching arm; and I'm sure there are other real medical reasons why they're done. Susan Carroll-Clark _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 13:59:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04624 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:59:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA08307; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:08:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA05379 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:06:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA05358 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:06:34 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 7HTEa03210 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:05:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1d11b561.36926291@aol.com> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:05:53 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Musketeers Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 226 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com I have a source for two types of traditional "cavalier", and I just used them for a scene form Cyrano. One in quantity that looks fine from a distance, with plumes, for $8.75/ea, the other is $45/ea and is high quality. Let me know if you're interested and I'll look them up and post. angil +++++ + + + + + + + Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing "Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds" A. Einstein In a message dated 1/4/1999 23:00:44 Pacific Standard Time, costumrs@binary.net writes: << > >The big problem I foresee is getting ahold of >some Musketeer hats, big broad-brimmed hats to be adorned with plumes. I >would far rather not be driven to making them. Does anyone know of a >supplier that deals in quantity with these? > Brenda >> _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 14:11:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04670 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:11:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA09355; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:21:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA07356 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:18:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA07311 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:18:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.208] (ell206.acadia.net [205.217.210.48]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id OAA15602 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:18:20 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:18:21 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: skeletons and stays Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> For this question, you might contact the Museum of American History at the Smithsonian -- they did quite a bit of research on the subject for the "Life After the Revolution" exhibit when it was mounted about 12 years ago. They had special mannikins made for the women's clothing in particular, to make them conform to a figure wearing stays. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 14:16:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04692 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:16:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA09799; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:25:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA08086 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:23:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA08064 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:23:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from LISA [209.162.71.46] by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_00fc_3692_749e_c769; Tue, 05 Jan 1999 15:22:54 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990105102631.0095e1e0@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 11:19:44 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule In-Reply-To: <36925569.9640E596@serv.net> References: <199901051714.JAA28016@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel I just *loved* this story! One of the things that stands out to me most in the argument that everyone should be able to do research is that some people simply don't know that they *need* to do research. Seems silly to experienced people, but some folks just need a good example set before them to scratch their heads and say, oh, I guess I'm not doing it quite right. Anyone who grew up watching the Hollywood movies that approached costuming in, at best, a half-hearted manner, pretty much think that if it kind of looks right, it's good enough. It reminds me of being a kid playing dress-up, when empty toilet paper tubes strung together around my head *were* beautiful sausage curls, and no one could tell me differently. It's just idealistic ignorance, really. It's important to be sympathetic towards the unenlightened costumer because we have all done silly things when we started. I once found a great pair of strappy heels at a thrift store for $1 that I was convinced were 1930's. Very excited, I ran them over to my good friend's house (she was the reigning Miss Art Deco at the time), just to have her tell me that no, they were 70's funky. Talk about embarrassed! She was oh-so-tactful, though, and she and the other Art Deco Society folks were very patient with my early attempts at period dress, lending me things when I needed them. Having witnessed snobbery among similar groups, I have to say that I, too, would have run away had it not been for the tolerance. I would say that most people have good intentions - a little tolerance and gentle guidance can go a long way. The most important point to make, though, is that the SCA, in particular, holds mostly non-public events, so why be offended by another person, if they're content with the results of their efforts? Research takes a lot of time that some people simply don't have to spare, and for those who do, it often takes years (or lots of cash!) to learn enough to do better than the 10' rule. Which is more important, that all sorts of people are involved and enjoying themsleves, or that we have a perfect bunch of historical fashion models constantly attempting to outdo one another? At 10:09 AM 1/5/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Merouda the True >Why this long story? Well, to illustrate that 10' foot rule helped me be >comfortable enough to attend a *second* event. If I had been made to >feel like a complete idiot, I never would have returned. I was nervous >enough as it was. I was so grateful that the SCA was so accepting of >my first attempts. My gold key donation box is full. *G* Half my >fabric stash has gotta go too. *********************** lisa scovel historical reenactment guide the mining co. http://reenactment.miningco.com "Learning from history is never a one-way process. To learn about the present in terms of the past means also to learn about the past in the light of the present. The function of history is to promote a profounder understanding of both past and present through the interrelation between them." Edward Hallett Carr _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 14:16:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04696 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:16:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA09810; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:25:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA08084 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:23:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA08067 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:23:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from LISA [209.162.71.46] by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_00fc_3692_752d_cd5b; Tue, 05 Jan 1999 15:25:17 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990105112044.00969b30@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 11:22:08 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> References: <19990105113322.746.qmail@hotmail.com> <199901051629.IAA13110@smtp.pacifier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel At 09:47 AM 1/5/99 -0800, you wrote: >But I believe that in the 1940s doctors were aware of how >to prevent infection (formerly a major cause of post-surgical death) by keeping >all tools, etc. free of bacteria. They also may have had better surgical >techniques than in the 19th century. Wasn't it Florence Nightingale who was the first modern proponent of sterilization of medical instruments? *********************** lisa scovel historical reenactment guide the mining co. http://reenactment.miningco.com "Learning from history is never a one-way process. To learn about the present in terms of the past means also to learn about the past in the light of the present. The function of history is to promote a profounder understanding of both past and present through the interrelation between them." Edward Hallett Carr _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 14:19:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04710 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:19:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA10236; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:28:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA08552 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:26:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA08545 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:26:14 -0700 (MST) From: Tsrra@aol.com Received: from Tsrra@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id IKLOa03539 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:23:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:23:56 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Fwd: HELP Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Tsrra@aol.com In a message dated 99-01-05 13:53:16 EST, you write: << Would a man (young man) wear a shirt of flax about 1000 years ago >> Well, he wouldn't wear a shirt of flax, but he probably had one of linen. TS Ohara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 14:27:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04738 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:27:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA11129; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:36:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA09863 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:34:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from centum.utulsa.edu (centum.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.199]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA09845 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:34:18 -0700 (MST) Received: by centum.utulsa.edu for H-COSTUME@INDRA.COM; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:36:55 -0600 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:36:55 -0600 From: "I. Marc Carlson" To: H-COSTUME@indra.com Message-Id: <990105133655.1efc60@centum.utulsa.edu> Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" > >>Ma'am, while I would personally prefer a two-foot, or even a two-millimeter >>rule, I am content to encourage a ten-foot rule for accuracy since, to judge >>from what I have seen at various things (including, but not limited to, SCA >>and Faires) even -that-'s exceeding some people's levels of interest and >>willingness. I don't mean to criticize those people in those venues who are >>doing some darned good work. I'm just saying that I find the "ten foot rule", >>a good, non-threatening, basic standard to encourage when dealing with people >>or places that have no other rigidly held standards. >Perhaps I should call it a guideline rather than a rule. At any rate, >telling newcomers that it's okay to do bad work or use bad materials >because it'll look okay from ten feet away is doing them a diservice. Why >not help them get started at a reasonable level? It's just not that much >harder. Under ideal circumstances, I agree with you completely. Personally, I believe that hard core adherence to historical accuracy is not only better looking, but also in the long run cheaper and easier than "faking it". However, this is not an ideal world, and the reality is that there are a lot of new people who want to be involved, and who are put off by the "threat" of authenticity. I *think* this has to do with a fear of looking stupid, or of willingly putting themselves into a situation where people can judge them and criticize them. Some places deal with this by having set standards to which new people can refer and say, "ok, I need to do -this-, and I'll fit in". It is a reality that not everyone does this. If the organizations you deal with have such, I'm jealous. Unfortunately, I have to deal with an organization that does not give me the luxury of set standards beyond "an attempt at pre-17th century garb", and no amount of holding my breath and being irritable and cranky about it will change that. Certainly, when I see a new person (or even someone who's been around for a decade or two) who's wearing something that has no origin in history, I can tell them that what they are wearing is inaccurate, that it drapes all wrong, it's made of the wrong fabric, and so on (and heck, I can *even* do it -nicely- if I put my mind to it), and some people will understand and others will be put off. But leaving aside for the moment that it's not my *place* to tell them that, if I can offend the fewest number of people, I am much more likely to have more people willing to listen to me the next time. In other words, if I suggest that it doesn't matter *what* their underwear is made of, that nobody cares if they are wearing linen or a reasonable looking cotton fake, and that if from ten feet away, the visual difference between that wool and such a polyester is minimal (particularly if I (or someone else) can then take the time to explain that wool has a certain drape to it that CAN be distinguished from a distance, and such and such a polyester will mimic that drape sort of...), I can convey the impression that it ISN'T threatening. That way, later, when I bring up thread-counts and Z and S spun threads casually in conversation, they don't get that scared "Marc's going to be mean to me" look in their eye (or worse, the "there's not going to be a test over this, is there" look). To be blunt, the seduction of the "innocent" to the accurate side of the street can take time and effort. It's a process of gradual education. If they don't want to hear it, you can't make them, and even trying to push can drive them even further from what you are trying to accomplish. The "ten-foot rule" should not be seen as an end result, but as part of an ongoing process of education... Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 14:35:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04769 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:35:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA11995; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:44:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA11017 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:42:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from send1e.yahoomail.com (send1e.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.64]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA11006 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:42:25 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990105193747.2828.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Received: from [206.159.234.11] by send1e; Tue, 05 Jan 1999 11:37:46 PST Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:37:46 -0800 (PST) From: Lyssandre MacKenzie Subject: H-COST: Dolly Levi's Dinner Dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lyssandre MacKenzie Okay- Just got through watching "Hello DollY (B. Streisand) for the umpteenth time, and finally have the courage to try and replicate the gold beaded dinner dress, although I am still debating whether to bead mine. (No patience for work like that. *sigh*) Anyway, I am wondering if anyone can suggest where I can find good pictures of the gown so I can figure out how the smocked hips and the skirt were put together? Thanks for any advise, Noelle _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 15:01:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04887 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:01:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA15392; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:09:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA16110 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:07:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA16104 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:07:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.out) with ESMTP id MAA07559 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:05:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36926E99.582C462C@best.com> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 11:57:13 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays References: <19990105113322.746.qmail@hotmail.com> <199901051629.IAA13110@smtp.pacifier.com> <4.1.19990105112044.00969b30@mail.tmsonline.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press Lisa Scovel wrote: > -Poster: Lisa Scovel > > At 09:47 AM 1/5/99 -0800, you wrote: > >But I believe that in the 1940s doctors were aware of > >how > >to prevent infection (formerly a major cause of post-surgical death) by > keeping > >all tools, etc. free of bacteria. They also may have had better surgical > >techniques than in the 19th century. > > Wasn't it Florence Nightingale who was the first modern proponent of > sterilization of medical instruments? I did not say that in the 19th century no one was aware of the need to clean surgical instruments. What I said was that it _was_common medical practice in the 1940s, and surgical techniques for removing the ribs may have been better in the1940s than in the 19th century. The rib removal for cosmetic reasons idea has been circulated for pre-19th-century periods. Personally, I wouldn't volunteer for it even in the 1990s. Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 15:09:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04926 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:09:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA16174; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:17:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA17426 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:15:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA17407 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:15:21 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ASJWa04795 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:14:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7df7a5af.369272a4@aol.com> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:14:28 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: skeletons and stays Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Dear All, I just received my show catalog for the Washington Antiques Show. Claudia Kidwell, curator at National Museum of American History, has an excellent article and drawings that explain stays, posture, women's silhouette of the late 18th century. The show catalog is $10.00 -- a real value for the 5 articles and pictures of the special exhibition of 18th century garments from Mary Doerings private collection. This one article would help explain the period shape and answer many of your questions about body shapes. Sally Queen Costume Calendar Series http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 15:21:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04984 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:21:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA17851; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:31:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA20042 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:28:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA20027 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:28:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from LISA [209.162.71.46] by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_00fc_3692_84d7_3259; Tue, 05 Jan 1999 16:32:07 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990105121303.0099f100@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 12:28:58 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <36926E99.582C462C@best.com> References: <19990105113322.746.qmail@hotmail.com> <199901051629.IAA13110@smtp.pacifier.com> <4.1.19990105112044.00969b30@mail.tmsonline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel I wasn't arguing with you at all. Your comment merely conjured up one of those random facts stuck in my brain and I began to wonder what, in fact, the timeframe was for widespread sterilization. Personally, though sterilization is an issue, of course, my immediate concern regarding such things would be about anaesthesia! At 11:57 AM 1/5/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Lavolta Press >> Wasn't it Florence Nightingale who was the first modern proponent of >> sterilization of medical instruments? > >I did not say that in the 19th century no one was aware of the need to clean >surgical instruments. What I said was that it _was_common medical practice in >the 1940s, and surgical techniques for removing the ribs may have been >better in >the1940s than in the 19th century. The rib removal for cosmetic reasons idea >has been circulated for pre-19th-century periods. Personally, I wouldn't >volunteer for it even in the 1990s. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 15:34:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA05034 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:34:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA19183; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:43:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA22181 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:41:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA22171 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:41:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.out) with ESMTP id MAA02471 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:39:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36927675.7B109C2B@best.com> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 12:30:45 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays References: <19990105113322.746.qmail@hotmail.com> <199901051629.IAA13110@smtp.pacifier.com> <4.1.19990105112044.00969b30@mail.tmsonline.com> <4.1.19990105121303.0099f100@mail.tmsonline.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press Lisa Scovel wrote: > -Poster: Lisa Scovel > > I wasn't arguing with you at all. Sorry. > Your comment merely conjured up one of those > random facts stuck in my brain and I began to wonder what, in fact, the > timeframe was for widespread sterilization. Personally, though sterilization > is an issue, of course, my immediate concern regarding such things would be > about anaesthesia! > My guess would be opium or a derivative of same. Don't know when they started using ether. We're probably getting off-topic here though. Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 16:06:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05161 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:06:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA22404; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:15:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA27608 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:13:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA27597 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:13:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.31.59 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:13:01 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Candle wax Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:49:20 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be38f0$c4b5ae20$5d14ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <19990104215618.25469.qmail@www0r.netaddress.usa.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Heat up the tea kettle, stretch the waxy part of the tablecloth over the sink or a bowl, and pour boiling water through it until the wax is gone, then launder normally. Works fast, with one teakettle full at most. If there's a stain in the same area, scrub that out first with dishwashing liquid soap, so that the boiling water doesn't set the stain. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Orlaith Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 4:56 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Candle wax and AlterYears Patterns -Poster: Orlaith I oopsed! Is there a way to get candle wax out of fabric. The fabric is a nice demaskas(sp?) table cloth. Any help would be extreamly appreciated. Thanks ahead of time, Jonica ____________________________________________________________ This happened to me but with tree sap. I was at an event and sat under a tree... A friend was able to get out the sap when I lent her the dress. The way to do it is to put a piece of plain typing paper on each side of the fabric and then iron. She said it worked great in about 30 seconds. :) She said something about the paper having less moisture than the fabric so the paper wicks out the wax. Someone was asking about AlterYears Patterns (can you tell I'm just catching up on my digets from Christmas?) I have used two of their patterns: PAY-014 "Irish" Dress and Underskirt and PAY-015 "Irish" Leine (Shirt). This was my first attempt at SCA garb and they seemed to work up pretty easily. As I recall I did the Leine all by hand except the neckline. I wanted to practice my hand stitiching but was running out of time with the neckline. I kind of wish I had done it in reverse and made sure I did the neckline by hand since I think it would have turned out better. The instructions were pretty clear but I just lent my patterns to a friend to make her first garb and managed to give them to her without the instructions. She did not have any problems putting togther her garb without them. One word of warning though, on the Irish dress you need about 2 more yards for the skirt then the pattern calls for. I think it was a misprint but I remember being really upset when I got to the last skirt gore had to wait til I could go back to the fabric store the next day. The misprint was later confirmed by another source so I know it wasn't that I just screwed up in the pattern layout. Beth ____________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ____________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 16:10:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05177 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:10:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA22980; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:19:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA28294 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:17:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA28252 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:17:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.208] (ell86.acadia.net [205.217.218.70]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA03718 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:17:02 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:17:02 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: re: HELP Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <<<< Would a man (young man) wear a shirt of flax about 1000 years ago >> Well, he wouldn't wear a shirt of flax, but he probably had one of linen.>> Maybe this is how all those 10 foot rules come about -- making broad assumptions about things. He *might* have worn a linen shirt 1000 years ago, *if* he lived in a smallish area of Europe: not if he lived in Africa, North or South America, most of Asia or Australia. In other words, we need a bit more information -- where did the man live? We shouldn't answer the question based on an assumption that he lived in an area just because it happens to be an area of our interest. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 16:12:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05187 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:12:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA23238; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:20:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA28497 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:18:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from dias.net (dias.net [199.170.176.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA28489 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:18:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ophelia@localhost) by dias.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA06229 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:26:23 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ophelia@dias.net) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:26:22 -0600 (CST) From: "Sara J. Davitt" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA Costuming Rules? In-Reply-To: <369248CF.31871FCD@serv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Sara J. Davitt" > Let me rephrase. Not everyone *wants* to be capable of sewing. Maybe > they want to spend their precious spare time learning how to make armour. > Thank god for merchants. > > Maybe we should require that the *merchants* at the events only sell > researched clothing. Merchants selling fantastical historical clothing are > probably the most responsible for the image of poor research. > On Point one. Historic reenactment is a hobby, and like most semi-elabotea hobbies, require some sort of monetary commitment. I simply consider willingness to sew simply an advantage. in Skydyving, You must have a parachute. You do not have the opportunity to Make a parachute, (beaded and fringed as some may wish to land in style :-) So you buy or rent one. It is the casualty of having a hobby. The right parachutes and costumes are out there... if you actually *Want* to find them. (BTW, handsewing can require little skill or commitment, as soon as one dispells the preconception that it is obnoxious, too difficult, and too slow.) On point two. This is a very good idea. I wish it would be enforced, along with New-age booths selling wicca daggers to those who want thier persona's to have 'a blade'... And those merchants/companies who sell anything with those overused cherubs under the guise of "victorian". Creating the Autheticity Swat Team would be ideal... But I would think that through early education, and supervised newbie shopping, and simply showing merchant types that people won't buy that which is not appropriate is the best way to do it. (That and occasional knowledgable chatter about certain details. to perhaps inform the merchants themselves [though there are many knowledgeable ones out there] Who have been 'fooled' by bad wholesale catalogue representations, and assumptive middlemen. We simply must, through good communication, break down the barriers of preconcieved ideas about costuming, and commitment. Anyone for a crusade? Sarahj :-) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 16:13:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05194 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:13:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA23485; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:22:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA28681 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:19:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA28669 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:19:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id HAA26017 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 07:49:34 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA04689; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 07:49:33 +1030 Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 07:49:33 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <36927675.7B109C2B@best.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, Lavolta Press wrote: > > Your comment merely conjured up one of those > > random facts stuck in my brain and I began to wonder what, in fact, the > > timeframe was for widespread sterilization. Personally, though sterilization > > is an issue, of course, my immediate concern regarding such things would be > > about anaesthesia! > > > > My guess would be opium or a derivative of same. Don't know when they started > using ether. We're probably getting off-topic here though. Just to continue briefly off topic in the vague hope it might shed some light on the rib removal thing, but anaesthetic (aside from drinking yourself silly) was not really much used until the later Victorian times, when they started using ether. Victoria herself was one of the first to use it, when giving birth to her last one or two kiddies and was a big fan. I can't remember where I read that unfortunately - it was a while ago. Actual antiseptics (as opposed to general cleanliness) were not used until a similar period. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 16:28:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05244 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:28:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA25313; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:36:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01153 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA01093 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.181] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zxe6L-0006ix-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:33:21 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990105130150.00b8cf00@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 13:02:52 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <199901051629.IAA13110@smtp.pacifier.com> References: <4.1.19990105054420.00b60b40@pop.slip.net> <19990105113322.746.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >This sort of leads me to another subject: rib removal. I've heard it >mentioned many times that this would have been impossible to do >without killing the women. Actually, it wasn't. While I have only >heard of one documented case of it for the sake of tight lacing (a >famous actress of the day), Was her name Pollaire? I have seen photos of her and her teensy waist. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 16:28:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05248 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:28:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA25283; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:35:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01136 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA01082 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.181] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zxe6J-0006ix-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:33:19 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990105115242.00b7cd70@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 11:53:34 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #9 In-Reply-To: <003801be38bd$ac8abb20$91a06480@dsc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I couldn't have said any better. Thank you Susan. Mistress Kaethe Willig von Mainz, OL, OP Susan Carroll-Clark writes, in a message sent 10:11 AM 1/5/99 -0500: > >-Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" > >Greetings! > >>If the SCA is not welcomed, then proclaim that from the beginning. Ask the >>questions and deny access to all who dare speak the words Society for >>Creative Anachronism. I, for one, will walk away gladly. For in the SCA >I >>have found acceptance unmatched by this list. I have found courtesy and >>noble bearing. I revel in the respect given to any interest one cares to >>persue, to any degree of expertise one can manage. And I have seen many >>well researched and exquisite articles made by those within Society ranks. >> >>It saddens me that their knowledge of historical costume seems to be >>unwelcomed on a list whose purpose is the study of clothing through the >>ages. It hurts even deeper to realize that SCA affiliation destroys the >>chance to ask questions and learn. > > >I will speak personally as a fellow member of the SCA. What I have found is >that any discussion about historical costuming is welcomed here. What is >less welcomed is discussions about SCA (or any other group's) rules and regs >or setup. Example: A discussion about how to find information on >Burgundian clothing for an A&S project would be welcome, whereas a detailed >discussion about a particular kingdom's A&S competition probably wouldn't. > >Philosophical discussions about a particular group's attitudes towards >historic costuming have generally been accepted, but usually when they stop >being about philosophy and start being "Well, MY group's better than YOURS" >they stop being as welcome. > >I have never experienced lack of respect here because of my SCA >affliliation, although I do post with my modern name since I'm not in an >SCA-only audience. I have found that if you're knowledgable, you'll be >respected; if you're here to learn and ask questions, you'll be assisted, >regardless of affiliation. Folks here are remarkably helpful and patient. >However, I have sympathy for my non-SCA colleagues who probably grow tired >of fielding questions about the SCA, and I personally don't need yet another >forum to discuss SCA politics or structure. Since I've always felt the >purpose of this list was to bring together those interested in historic >costume from all sorts of backgrounds (re-enactment, living history, >re-creation, academia, theatre, and just plain keen interest), I think it's >important that we don't turn this into a more limited list. > >Cheers-- >Susan Carroll-Clark >SCA Mistress Nicolaa de Bracton > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 16:28:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05252 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:28:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA25363; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:36:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01158 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA01122 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.181] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zxe6P-0006ix-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:33:26 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990105131538.00b924e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 13:17:26 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990105112044.00969b30@mail.tmsonline.com> References: <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> <19990105113322.746.qmail@hotmail.com> <199901051629.IAA13110@smtp.pacifier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>But I believe that in the 1940s doctors were aware of >>how >>to prevent infection (formerly a major cause of post-surgical death) by >keeping >>all tools, etc. free of bacteria. They also may have had better surgical >>techniques than in the 19th century. > >Wasn't it Florence Nightingale who was the first modern proponent of >sterilization of medical instruments? I think this was Dr. Semmelweis reguarding child bed fever. He advocated washing the hands between the disecting room and the delivery room. The doctors under him were outraged, even after the statictics proved him right. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 16:28:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05257 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:28:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA25382; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:36:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01159 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA01110 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.181] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zxe6N-0006ix-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:33:24 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990105130525.00b7c760@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 13:09:54 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule In-Reply-To: <199901051714.JAA28016@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Perhaps I should call it a guideline rather than a rule. At any rate, >telling newcomers that it's okay to do bad work or use bad materials >because it'll look okay from ten feet away is doing them a diservice. Why >not help them get started at a reasonable level? It's just not that much >harder. Even at Faire there are groups within it who help their own newbies. Just as some SCA households do. But you're right about telling living history newbies it's ok to cheat if the audience is 10 feet away. Funny authenticity story about a ten foot rule from Dickens' Faire (held in San Francisco): Somebody in a costume workshop asked 'what if somebody is close enough to notice that my fly is zippered not buttoned?'. The instructor said 'well in that case I don't think he's interested in authenticity.' Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 16:28:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05258 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:28:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA25394; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:36:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01163 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA01133 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.181] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zxe6R-0006ix-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:33:28 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990105132103.00b8c660@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 13:31:50 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990105102631.0095e1e0@mail.tmsonline.com> References: <36925569.9640E596@serv.net> <199901051714.JAA28016@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >One of the things that stands out to me most in the argument that everyone >should be able to do research is that some people simply don't know that they >*need* to do research. Seems silly to experienced people, but some folks just >need a good example set before them to scratch their heads and say, oh, I guess >I'm not doing it quite right. Anyone who grew up watching the Hollywood movies >that approached costuming in, at best, a half-hearted manner, pretty much think >that if it kind of looks right, it's good enough. It reminds me of being a kid >playing dress-up, when empty toilet paper tubes strung together around my head >*were* beautiful sausage curls, and no one could tell me differently. It's >just idealistic ignorance, really. And then there are the people whose eye isn't trained to know what they are seeing. Like your 70's shoes which weren't Deco. This, again, is training. The first-timer newbie doesn't have that and often needs to be cut some slack for a while. Old timers can help and, IMHO, ought to. Putting them in touch with this list might well help. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 16:29:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05268 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:29:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA25372; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:36:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01160 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01073; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:21 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:33:21 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901052133.OAA01073@indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Gaylin Walli" Subject: H-COST: Re: Rib removal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gaylin Walli" Susan Carroll-Clark asked: >(Does anyone know when cosmetic surgery as we know it started being >done?). Most of the procedures necessary for cosmetic surgery as we know it today for facial surgery have been known since the time of the Egyptians, believe it or not. Gaylin gwalli@infoengine.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 16:30:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05275 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:30:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA25837; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:37:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01491 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:35:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from hil-img-4.compuserve.com (hil-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.177.134]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA01469 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:34:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by hil-img-4.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id QAA25771 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:34:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:34:13 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Fwd HELP To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901051634_MC2-6591-D135@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id QAA05275 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson >Well, he wouldn't wear a shirt of flax, but he probably had one of linen From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 17:12:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05459 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:12:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA00486; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:21:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA09809 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:19:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA09795 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:19:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20493 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:19:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36928FF2.D8DABB48@serv.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 14:19:30 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: H-COST: Calling all An Tir Costumers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True Another h-cost person and myself are meeting this weekend at the An Tir 12th Night celebration slash coronation. If there are any other folks from the list that are going, email me privately and we'll try to all get together for a meet and gab fest!\ Sounds like a blast to me, hope there's a few of us! Merouda (aka Cynthia) -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 18:08:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05670 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:08:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA07693; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA20892 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:13:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from arl-img-3.compuserve.com (arl-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.217.133]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA20875 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:13:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by arl-img-3.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id SAA03853 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:13:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:12:55 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Fwd Help To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901051813_MC2-6595-E06B@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id SAA05670 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson >Well, he wouldn't wear a shirt of flax, but he probably had one of linen From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 18:11:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05683 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:11:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA08084; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:18:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA21384 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:16:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from tomcat.sac.verio.net (root@tomcat.sac.verio.net [209.162.64.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA21369 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:16:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.159.15.40] (pm02-21.rose.sac.verio.net [207.159.15.40]) by tomcat.sac.verio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA18008 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:16:22 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: kworley@mail.ns.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199901052219.PAA09825@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:16:15 -0800 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Katrina Worley Subject: H-COST: ether Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Katrina Worley First documented use of ether as an anesthesia (rather than as a party game) was in Glasgow, Scotland in 1846. The surgery was (I believe) an appendectomy. It took a while to catch on among surgeons, though. It seemed to gain favor earlier on for childbirth. Katrina Katrina in Loomis, CA kworley@ns.net *************** History: what special people were doing in special places at special times; Anthropology: what everyone else was doing the rest of the time. **K. Worley, 1997** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 18:19:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05711 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:19:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA09201; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:26:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA22776 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:24:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from x15.engin.umich.edu (root@x15.engin.umich.edu [141.212.198.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA22751 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (parsla@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by x15.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA25506 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:23:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:23:20 -0500 (EST) From: Parsla Liepa To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: [Mid] Help? (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Parsla Liepa Greetings! This request comes from another list that I'm on. Perhaps someone can help this lady? Parsla ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:17:13 EST From: KriSiena@aol.com Greetings! A while back while surfing costuming sites I came across a site or piece of a site that had general descriptions of individual pieces of clothing. Like, this is what a farthingale was, when it was worn, by whom, etc. A nice big list, in easy to understand language, covering a pretty good chunk of time. Well, now that I need it I can't find it. Does anyone know where it is? Or something like it? I'm teaching a basic garb class for my shire and this would be an excellent jumping off point for it. Thanks muchly, Isabetta From: KriSiena@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 18:27:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05740 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:27:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA11573; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:35:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA27105 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA26948 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:32:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA20729 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:32:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3692A136.399B917E@serv.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 15:33:10 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA Costuming Rules? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > We simply must, through good communication, break down the barriers of > preconcieved ideas about costuming, and commitment. > > Anyone for a crusade? My lady! What exactly do you have in mind? *weg* -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 18:38:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05822 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:38:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA12459; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:46:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA29216 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:44:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA29206 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:44:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip91.an3-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.14.91]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA07154 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:44:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3692965D.B405AFCE@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 18:46:55 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: rules of the list? References: <199901051556.IAA00907@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Elizabeth Lear wrote: > -Poster: Elizabeth Lear > > Charlene: > > What she said. > > It's a fine line, but we tend to walk it pretty well. When I have to > step in to bring things back on track, the list members are > understanding and cooperative. This list has managed to survive well > for many years, and I expect it will continue to do so as long as we > follow the guidelines. This list was founded by a woman who loved > costuming regardless of affiliation or time period, and we need to > always remember no group, time or gender is more or less important > here than any other. > > As a 'newbie' on the list, and a non-SCA member and an academic to boot, I just wanted to add my supportive voice to this. The members of this list are remarkably knowledgeable, regardless of how they got their information, and I appreciate that very much. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 20:16:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA06311 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 20:16:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA20313; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:24:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA16162 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:22:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from m14.boston.juno.com (m14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.193]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA16139 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:22:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from robingoodfellow4@juno.com) by m14.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DX89LAZX; Tue, 05 Jan 1999 20:21:00 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:52:23 CST Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare In Love Message-ID: <19990105.175310.10823.5.robingoodfellow4@juno.com> References: <19990105154621.718.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-4,6-7,10-15,17-48 From: robingoodfellow4@juno.com (Anne Louise Bannon) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: robingoodfellow4@juno.com (Anne Louise Bannon) I loved this film as well. What a delight, although my historian spouse spent a fair amount of time griping that the Virginia colonies weren't around until after 1600 something or other. Also, he said tobacco wasn't an interest until well after that. Has anybody got the correct dates on the establishment of the Virginia colony? Secondly, I do have a couple costume questions. There seemed to be buttoning (and a lot of *un* buttonning) of doublets. Is that accurate? And shouldn't Will have been wearing a jerkin under his doublet? Anne B. robingoodfellow4@juno.com Nobody gets out of here without a doggie bag On Tue, 5 Jan 1999 07:46:21 -0800 (PST) Lyssandre MacKenzie writes: > >-Poster: Lyssandre MacKenzie > >I saw "Shakespeare" last Saturday, and I am still hyped. It has been a >long time since I saw a movie THAT good! IMHO this movie was >everything Elizabeth should and could have been. > >If you have not seen it, yet, I highly recommend it. > >Okay- to bring this back on topic- All the dresses they had Elizabeth >wearing in "Shakespeare" were from some of her more famous portraits- >even the peacock dress. > >I would love to hear the observations and opinions of other listies >that have seen it. > >Still on Cloud 7 anyway, > >Noelle > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 20:58:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA06458 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 20:58:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA23507; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:06:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA01260 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:03:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA01254 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:03:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p21.directcon.net [206.170.184.70]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA00763 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:00:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:00:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901060200.SAA00763@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >Under ideal circumstances, I agree with you completely. Personally, I believe >that hard core adherence to historical accuracy is not only better looking, >but also in the long run cheaper and easier than "faking it". (SNIP rest of post) Very well put, and convincing. I've got to admit something here....You're right, and I'm wrong. (wow! That didn't hurt as much as I thought it would) I guess I'll just have to leave it at this: The "ten foot rule" is here to stay, it's helpful, it's appropriate....and it irritates the @#$%^ out of me sometimes, especially when I'm kicking chocolate. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 21:02:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06482 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:02:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA23884; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:10:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA01829 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:08:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA01823 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:08:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from stassja.bellatlantic.net (client-125-26.bellatlantic.net [151.198.125.26]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA07619 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:08:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990105205119.00a51004@postoffice3.bellatlantic.net> X-Sender: stassja@postoffice3.bellatlantic.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 20:51:26 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: "Mariea M. Goodinson-Dillenkofer" Subject: H-COST: Corsets (Victorian) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Mariea M. Goodinson-Dillenkofer" I've been following the corset thread with much interest and found the Long Island Staylace Association (L.I.S.A.) website ( http://staylace.com/index.html ) had some very interesting images and information. I had sought some vaguely remembered vintage photograph of a corsetted woman in the Victorian era and, while this site doesn't have the woman I remember seeing, it has several pictures of corsetted women, both historical and contemporary. In the historical section, one image in particular boggles the mind (Ethel Granger) as to where in the world her internal organs have gone! Much as I would personally love a smaller waist, I'm not sure I'd be ready for the "waist training" rigors described in this website. Apparently it works, though. I know a costumer in Rhode Island who has sewn for a woman belonging to one of these corseting groups and she had to make a custom dressmaker's dummy to create her outfit. Yes, the woman's body is actually quite altered permanently from corsetting - she doesn't just look that way in her corset. However, she is seldom out of her corset (other than to bathe) - yup, sleeps in one too! Intriguing but I'm not sure entirely tempting. ;> Rie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 21:05:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06495 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:05:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA24150; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:13:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA02279 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:11:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA02250 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:11:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p21.directcon.net [206.170.184.70]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA01694 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:07:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:07:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901060207.SAA01694@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson Personally, though sterilization >is an issue, of course, my immediate concern regarding such things would be >about anaesthesia! I am one of the few unlucky people who have had major surgery without anaesthesia. The epidural failed during a C-section, and they couldn't give me anything else without endangering the baby. (Now don't run out and get your tubes tied, it's a very rare occurence) Given the level of pain, I think that the likelihood of dying from shock during a rib removal would be very high indeed. I certainley can't imagine the procedure being popularized by word of mouth. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 21:12:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06521 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:12:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA24566; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:20:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA03013 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA03004 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:17:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p21.directcon.net [206.170.184.70]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA28723 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:45:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:45:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901060145.RAA28723@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson > >So, in my not so humble ( ;-> ) opinion, I think the 10' foot rule >encouraged me to come back and learn something. I concede that the ten foot rule is probably reassuring to a lot of newbies. I just don't understand why the same concession made to a brand new member should apply to dukes who have been around since (sometimes literally) Day One, and are still wearing cotton poly T-tunics and blue jeans. Shouldn't there be a statute of limitations? This is getting to be a discussion of SCA politics, rather than costuming, and is therefore off topic. I'd be glad to continue the discussion by email or on the SCA list. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 21:18:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06549 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:18:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA25121; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:26:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA03754 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:24:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from shccalam01.salick.com ([207.214.247.93]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA03711 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:24:16 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901060224.TAA03711@indra.com> Received: by SHCCALAM01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:27:33 -0800 From: Kathryn Baron To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Musketeers Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:22:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kathryn Baron I'd be interested in knowing the details. Thanks. > ---------- > From: MzScahlett@aol.com[SMTP:MzScahlett@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 11:05 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Musketeers > > > -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com > > I have a source for two types of traditional "cavalier", and I just > used them > for a scene form Cyrano. One in quantity that looks fine from a > distance, > with plumes, for $8.75/ea, the other is $45/ea and is high quality. > Let me > know if you're interested and I'll look them up and post. > > angil > +++++ > + + + + + + + > Angela F. Lazear > Costumes & Custom Clothing > > "Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From > Mediocre Minds" > A. Einstein > > In a message dated 1/4/1999 23:00:44 Pacific Standard Time, > costumrs@binary.net writes: > > << > > >The big problem I foresee is getting ahold of > >some Musketeer hats, big broad-brimmed hats to be adorned with > plumes. I > >would far rather not be driven to making them. Does anyone know of > a > >supplier that deals in quantity with these? > > > Brenda >> > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 21:21:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06562 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:21:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA25327; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:29:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA04212 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:26:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU (SYSTEM@cc.newcastle.edu.au [134.148.4.24]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA04186 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:26:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from noname.newcastle.edu.au (c25mc1-asy16.newcastle.edu.au) by cc.newcastle.edu.au (PMDF V5.1-12 #U2933) with SMTP id <01J67YU0Z2FG90MZK6@cc.newcastle.edu.au> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:48:56 +1100 Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 12:54:00 +1100 From: Tricia Ostwald Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-reply-to: X-Sender: phpmo@cc.newcastle.edu.au (Unverified) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.1.32.19990106125400.007efb90@cc.newcastle.edu.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <36927675.7B109C2B@best.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Tricia Ostwald >-Poster: The Purple Elephant > >Just to continue briefly off topic in the vague hope it might shed some >light on the rib removal thing, but anaesthetic (aside from drinking >yourself silly) was not really much used until the later Victorian times, >when they started using ether. The first use of ether was in 1846, in Boston. Which has nothing whatsoever to do with costuming - but the book I just looked it up in "Mould's Medical Anecdotes" 1996, has a cute little picture of Mary Tudor laying hands on a boy's neck to cure him of the "Queen's Evil" on Page 1, and a similar picture of Edward the Confessor on Page 2. And I thought I didn't have any costume books at work :-) Trish Dr P. M. Ostwald Senior Medical Physicist Department of Medical Physics Newcastle Mater Hospital, Australia ph: Int+ 61 2 49211172 FAX: Int+ 61 2 49211129 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 22:38:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06888 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:38:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA00284; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 20:46:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA12559 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 20:44:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA12549 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 20:44:03 -0700 (MST) From: Tsrra@aol.com Received: from Tsrra@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id CCHLa03538 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:43:10 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <8d1ebbf8.3692dbce@aol.com> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:43:10 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: re: HELP Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Tsrra@aol.com In a message dated 99-01-05 16:18:14 EST, you write: << <<<< Would a man (young man) wear a shirt of flax about 1000 years ago >> Well, he wouldn't wear a shirt of flax, but he probably had one of linen.>> Maybe this is how all those 10 foot rules come about -- making broad assumptions about things. He *might* have worn a linen shirt 1000 years ago, *if* he lived in a smallish area of Europe: not if he lived in Africa, North or South America, most of Asia or Australia. >> True, but I never claimed to be a researcher. The point I was making is that flax is not the fabric. TS Ohara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 23:47:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA07153 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:47:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA05758; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:54:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA20104 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:52:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA20092 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:52:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-61-60.s60.tnt1.rcm.erols.com [207.172.61.60]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA08459 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:55:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00a101be3930$5d858f00$3c3daccf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Rib removal Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:52:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" Rib removal again...maybe a topic for FAQ (hint, hint) Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 5 23:57:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA07192 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:57:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA06318; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:04:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA21075 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:02:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA21069 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:02:10 -0700 (MST) From: MissMela@aol.com Received: from MissMela@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 7DMZa04317 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 00:00:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8320d494.3692edda@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 00:00:10 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Major Design Project -- Need sources! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 205 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MissMela@aol.com Jeannie, you need a sewing contractor. Look in the business to business phone book and there should be listings. At least there are in CA. If not, contact any local manufacturer of clothing and ask for a contracting source. Most sewing contractors bid off of a sample. They will often make up the sample as per your sketch, charging a higher fee for this and then bid the cost for the multiples after they have "test driven" the pattern. Some want a pattern of the garment, some a marker, it depends. I use them on the West coast a lot. If you get to a point that you want it done out of state, let me know and I'll look up my contracting book. (There is a very expensive book that comes out every other year or so that lists sewing contractors and basically what type of garments and price range they do) I do not have an updated one, but on my next weekly trek into the garment district, I could get the info for you. Hope this helps a little. Mela _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 00:10:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA07903 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 00:10:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA07501; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:18:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA22377 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:16:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from centum.utulsa.edu (centum.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.199]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id WAA22365 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:16:09 -0700 (MST) Received: by centum.utulsa.edu; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:18:44 -0600 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:18:44 -0600 From: "I. Marc Carlson" To: mail2news-19990105-rec.org.sca@anon.lcs.mit.edu, sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu, ANSTEORRA@ANSTEORRA.ORG, H-COSTUME@indra.com Message-Id: <990105231844.154b2b@centum.utulsa.edu> Subject: H-COST: Honorable Company of Cordwainers site Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" For those who are interested in shoemaking, there is a (unofficial as yet) web site for the Honorable Company of Cordwainers at "http://www.bootmaker.com/hcc.htm". Also there is the Chrispin Coloquy, a web-based forum for those who want to discuss things about shoemaking. Please pass this information on to those who might also be interested. Marc Carlson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 00:48:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA08042 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 00:48:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA09526; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:55:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA25698 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:53:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA25690 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 22:53:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.96.178.6] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 0zxluY-0004vS-00; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 00:53:43 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990106055227.0070f150@mail.widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@mail.widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 00:52:27 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA Costuming Rules? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 03:26 PM 1/5/99 -0600, you wrote: > >On Point one. Historic reenactment is a hobby, and like most >semi-elabotea hobbies, require some sort of monetary commitment. Actually for quite a few, it is an occupation. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 01:14:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA08357 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 01:14:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA11674; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:22:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA27826 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:20:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA27820 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:20:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.96.178.6] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 0zxmKP-0005HZ-00; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 01:20:25 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990106061909.00728854@mail.widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@mail.widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 01:19:09 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare In Love Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 05:52 PM 1/5/99 CST, you wrote: > >-Poster: robingoodfellow4@juno.com (Anne Louise Bannon) > >I loved this film as well. What a delight, although my historian spouse >spent a fair amount of time griping that the Virginia colonies weren't >around until after 1600 something or other. Also, he said tobacco wasn't >an interest until well after that. > >Has anybody got the correct dates on the establishment of the Virginia >colony? > >Secondly, I do have a couple costume questions. There seemed to be >buttoning (and a lot of *un* buttonning) of doublets. Is that accurate? >And shouldn't Will have been wearing a jerkin under his doublet? > >Anne B. >robingoodfellow4@juno.com >Nobody gets out of here without a doggie bag > Depends on what you mean by Virginia. The name comes from the Virginia Company, who held the original Corporate charter to the colony. The name, given by Sir Walter Raleigh in honour of the Virgin Queen a huge area of North America, between New France and the Spanish Territory of Florida. The first settlment in Virginia (by the English) was at Roanoke in 1584, and failed after two years. The tobacco habit apparently found it's way into Europe through Portugal and Spain in the early mid 16th century, by way of those stationed in the New World. By the mid century, dried tobacco was being shipped to Europe, soon after the seeds, which quicly led to the plant being grown as a medicinal herb. There are a number of references to tobacco in England during the reign of the Queen. Now the first successful English settlement here was Jamestown in 1607, after the death of Elizabeth. Tobacco as we are familiar with it is NOT native to Virginia, though there is a wild tobacco that grows here. The tobacco smoked in Europe was imported into the colony by Pocohontas' husband, John Rolfe as a possible way for the colony to turn a profit. It was successful. I do not know what you are referring to with the unbuttoning and buttoning of the doublet. There should be two upper body garments a doublet and something else, be it a cassock, cap, cloak, coat, jerkin, etc. The Jerkin however seems to be worn over the doublet far more oft then under it. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 01:33:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA08420 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 01:33:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA12335; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:40:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA29077 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:38:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from hummer.tci.net (hummer.TCI.NET [209.19.4.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA29069 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:38:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from 59303-a (c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.4.53.172]) by hummer.tci.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id YRF0RWAM; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:37:54 -0700 Message-ID: <009501be3941$cb943da0$ac350418@59303-a.plano1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare In Love Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 00:56:48 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" Image ref: (open the box of this email to see the whole address in one line) http://www.miramax.com:8888/mm_front/owa/mp.entryPoint?action=1&midStr=742 select Joseph Finnes JPEG 39 KB Photograph by Laurie Sparham You can see the shirt and the item in question. Sincerely, Ches aka Chiara Francesca Steward of Coronation XL http://www.io.com/~ches/coronation99 -----Original Message----- From: Ron Carnegie To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 12:11 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare In Love : :-Poster: Ron Carnegie : :At 05:52 PM 1/5/99 CST, you wrote: :> :>-Poster: robingoodfellow4@juno.com (Anne Louise Bannon) :> :>I loved this film as well. What a delight, although my historian spouse :>spent a fair amount of time griping that the Virginia colonies weren't :>around until after 1600 something or other. Also, he said tobacco wasn't :>an interest until well after that. :> :>Has anybody got the correct dates on the establishment of the Virginia :>colony? :> :>Secondly, I do have a couple costume questions. There seemed to be :>buttoning (and a lot of *un* buttonning) of doublets. Is that accurate? :>And shouldn't Will have been wearing a jerkin under his doublet? :> :>Anne B. :>robingoodfellow4@juno.com :>Nobody gets out of here without a doggie bag :> : Depends on what you mean by Virginia. The name comes from the :Virginia Company, who held the original Corporate charter to the colony. :The name, given by Sir Walter Raleigh in honour of the Virgin Queen a huge :area of North America, between New France and the Spanish Territory of :Florida. The first settlment in Virginia (by the English) was at Roanoke in :1584, and failed after two years. : : The tobacco habit apparently found it's way into Europe through :Portugal and Spain in the early mid 16th century, by way of those stationed :in the New World. By the mid century, dried tobacco was being shipped to :Europe, soon after the seeds, which quicly led to the plant being grown as a :medicinal herb. : : There are a number of references to tobacco in England during the :reign of the Queen. : : Now the first successful English settlement here was Jamestown in :1607, after the death of Elizabeth. : Tobacco as we are familiar with it is NOT native to Virginia, though there :is a wild tobacco that grows here. The tobacco smoked in Europe was :imported into the colony by Pocohontas' husband, John Rolfe as a possible :way for the colony to turn a profit. It was successful. : : I do not know what you are referring to with the unbuttoning and :buttoning of the doublet. There should be two upper body garments a doublet :and something else, be it a cassock, cap, cloak, coat, jerkin, etc. The :Jerkin however seems to be worn over the doublet far more oft then under it. : :Cheers, :Ron Carnegie :rcarnegie@widomaker.com : ************************************************* : "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that : once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked : other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking : their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now : all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we : ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." : G.M. Trevelyan : ************************************************* : : _________________________________________________________________ : To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com : with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME : _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 01:44:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA08457 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 01:44:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAB12750; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:52:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA29768 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:50:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from nu.binary.net (root@nu.binary.net [12.13.120.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA29760 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:50:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup.binary.net (lnk1-ppp-11.binary.net [207.140.121.11]) by nu.binary.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id AAA24045 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 00:50:26 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990106003958.006feaa8@binary.net> X-Sender: costumrs@binary.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 00:39:58 -0600 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: corsets In-Reply-To: <199901051820.LAA27098@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger >- -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com: >Tight lacing definitely has an effect on one's breathing and heart >function. Even a moderately laced corset should never be suddenly >decompressed (like the sword swipe lace cutting) unless the person is >actually in cardiac arrest. Otherwise you may *cause* cardiac arrest. Also, one should NEVER cut corset laces if someone is choking. The sharp intake of air will cause the person to aspirate the offending object further. Do the Heimlich with the corset in place. I got this from someone who has been there, done that. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 05:01:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA14784 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 05:01:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA20536; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 03:09:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA10587 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 03:07:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from morgoth.tuug.org (root@morgoth.tuug.org [130.232.72.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA10582 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 03:07:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from delenn.yok.utu.fi ([130.232.128.27] HELO delenn.yok.utu.fi ident: NO-IDENT-SERVICE [port 5124]) by tuug.org with SMTP id <40815-295>; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:07:17 +0200 From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" Organization: Lyninine Federation To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:07:33 +2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199901051714.JAA28016@zeus.directcon.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990106100717Z40815-295+59@tuug.org> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" On 5 Jan 99, at 9:14, Margo Anderson wrote: > Perhaps I should call it a guideline rather than a rule. At any rate, > telling newcomers that it's okay to do bad work or use bad materials > because it'll look okay from ten feet away is doing them a diservice. Why > not help them get started at a reasonable level? It's just not that much > harder. I think it's not very easy to do bad work and use bad materials and still get a costume that looks good from 3m (10'). I mean one can spot errors in cut from that distance, grommets, (most) artificial fibres instead of silk and so on from that distance. From 60cm (2', about one's arms length) one can see almost every small mistake, perhaps even whether it's handsewn or not (and certainly whether embroidery was hand or machine made). So what is reasonable level and what are good ways to help newcomers to achieve that? I think the point at first was that not everybody has money for the right materials (at least here ok quality linen costs about $11 per metre) or time for handsewing. (I hope at least someone understood my lousy English this time.) -- -------(c) 1999--------------* lynoure@tuug.org * Ella Lynoure Rajamaki--------* http://www.tuug.org/~lynoure * _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 08:21:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA15506 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:21:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA25476; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 06:30:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA16349 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 06:27:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA16339 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 06:27:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.42] (ell58.acadia.net [205.217.218.42]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA05075 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:27:42 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:27:42 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: Shakespeare/anachronisms Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> The first permanent English settlement in North America was made in Virginia, at Jamestown, where the first group of settlers landed in May of 1607. The popularity of tobacco came about 10 years later. <> The majority of doublets were buttoned up the front. Jerkins, when worn, were worn over sleeved doublets. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 08:43:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA15614 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:43:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA26562; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 06:51:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA17782 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 06:49:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA17773 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 06:49:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a05.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.133]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA26805 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 07:49:10 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <369369D1.8D35C87C@nash.tds.net> Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 07:49:05 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule References: <19990106100717Z40815-295+59@tuug.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat Ella Lynoure Rajamaki wrote: > > I think it's not very easy to do bad work and use bad materials > and still get a costume that looks good from 3m (10'). I mean > one can spot errors in cut from that distance, grommets, > (most) artificial fibres instead of silk and so on from that > distance. From 60cm (2', about one's arms length) one can > see almost every small mistake, perhaps even whether it's > handsewn or not (and certainly whether embroidery was > hand or machine made). > > So what is reasonable level and what are good ways to help > newcomers to achieve that? I think the point at first was that > not everybody has money for the right materials (at least here > ok quality linen costs about $11 per metre) or time for > handsewing. I always recommend using a coarse weave or linen look cotton, cutting out a t-tunic (or t-tunic dress), seaming the interior seams with the machine as well as the hem and then handsewing the hems. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 08:45:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA15629 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:45:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA26698; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 06:54:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA18087 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 06:51:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA18077 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 06:51:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-62-102.s102.tnt2.rcm.erols.com [207.172.62.102]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA11258 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:51:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000101be397b$c0e2c400$663eaccf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: "costume newsgroup" Subject: H-COST: Jamestown Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:52:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" There is a wonderful article in Preservation magazine, July/August 1998 about Jamestown history and excavations called, "Jamestown Revisited". The subtitle: An ongoing dig and rediscovered papers are reprompting a reassessment as the first permanent English settlement approaches its 400th anniversary. The article also discusses the importance of tabacco for the area. Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 09:44:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15875 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:44:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA29935; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 07:52:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA23742 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 07:50:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from m16.boston.juno.com (m16.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.192]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA23733; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 07:50:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m16.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DYAPUZKG; Wed, 06 Jan 1999 09:49:40 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare/anachronisms Message-ID: <19990106.063434.4791.2.cley@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-15,21-25 From: cley@juno.com (cynthia j ley) Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 09:49:40 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: cley@juno.com (cynthia j ley) On Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:27:42 -0500 pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) writes: > >-Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) > ><Virginia >colony?>> > >The first permanent English settlement in North America was made in >Virginia, at Jamestown, where the first group of settlers landed in >May of >1607. The popularity of tobacco came about 10 years later. Tobacco was being advertised in England much earlier though. The British West Indies Company comissioned a Gentleman of the Chapel Royal, Thomas Weelkes, to write them a jingle in the popular madrigal-esque style of the day. The result is "Come Sirrah, Jack Ho!," published in his AYRES OR PHANTASIK SPIRITS, 1608. if any wish more information on this, please contact me privately at Cley@juno.com. Arlys ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 10:24:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16039 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:24:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA03322; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:33:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA29797 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:31:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA29774 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:30:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from CC1010062-A.avnl1.nj.home.com ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.0 201-221-107) with SMTP id <19990106153056.BNMX2583.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@CC1010062-A.avnl1.nj.home.com> for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 07:30:56 -0800 Message-ID: <00bb01be398a$174aca00$cb860318@CC1010062-A.avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: Subject: H-COST: Flax Linen was re: HELP Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:34:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" Ok, I admit to missing almost all this thread, but I'm a bit confused. I've often seen references to linen made of flax (the stalk) as well as other parts of the plant. I could be wrong here. This is from the Textile Dictionary: Flax Fibre: Weave: Characteristics: This fibre is taken from the stalk of the Linum usitaatissimum plant. It is a long, smooth fibre and is cylindrical in shape. It's length varies from 6 to 40 inches but on average is between 15 and 25 inches. It's colour is usually off-white or tan and due to it's natural wax content, flax has excellent luster. It is considered to be the strongest of the vegetable fibres and is highly absorbent, allowing moisture to evaporate with speed. It conducts heat well and can be readily boiled. It's washability is great, however, it has poor elasticity and does not easily return to it's original shape after creasing. Uses: Apparel fabric. When processed into fabric it is called linen. It is also used for tablecloths, napkins, doilies, twine, aprons, fishing tackle, and nets. Doesn't it make sense then that if 100% linen was available and used...so was flax linen?? just curious. Suz -----Original Message----- From: Tsrra@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 10:45 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: re: HELP > >-Poster: Tsrra@aol.com > >In a message dated 99-01-05 16:18:14 EST, you write: > ><< <<<< Would a man (young man) wear a shirt of flax about 1000 years ago >> > > Well, he wouldn't wear a shirt of flax, but he probably had one of linen.>> > > Maybe this is how all those 10 foot rules come about -- making broad > assumptions about things. > > He *might* have worn a linen shirt 1000 years ago, *if* he lived in a > smallish area of Europe: not if he lived in Africa, North or South America, > most of Asia or Australia. >> > >True, but I never claimed to be a researcher. The point I was making is that >flax is not the fabric. > >TS Ohara > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 10:25:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16046 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:25:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA03502; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:35:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA00174 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:32:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA00152 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:32:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from 132.198.103.242 (132.198.103.242) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.F7169040@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:33:14 -0800 Message-ID: <3693823B.528B@uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 10:33:23 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare In Love References: <2.2.32.19990106061909.00728854@mail.widomaker.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hope Greenberg > >-Poster: robingoodfellow4@juno.com (Anne Louise Bannon) > >I loved this film as well. What a delight, although my historian spouse > >spent a fair amount of time griping that the Virginia colonies weren't > >around until after 1600 something or other. Also, he said tobacco wasn't > >an interest until well after that. Our library lists 72 entries in the category: America--Early Accounts to 1600. Many are Spanish accounts, of course, but Richard Hakluyt and John Brereton both have plenty to say, in English, about theirs' and others' voyages to the new world and published before 1600. As for tobacco, it was certainly part of pre-1600 culture as evidenced by the songs and poems of which it was the topic. For example, Sir John Davies' "Of Tobacco" of 1586 as well as my personal favorite, a delightful tune by Michael East titled "O, Metaphysical Tobacco" published in his second book of madrigals in 1606. These and several others extolling tobacco's virtues can be found at: http://swamp.merriweb.com.au/books/tobacco/tobacco.html Oh yes, and to bring this back to topic: a c1680 poem by Robert Herrick titled "The Tobacconist" (which at this period refers to someone who smokes, not someone who sells) begins with the line: Know you the garb? thus I accost you, what? An early referral to some sort of smoking jacket do you think? ;-) - Hope G. ------------ hope.greenberg@uvm.edu, U of Vermont, http://www.uvm.edu/~hag _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 10:30:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16068 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:30:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA03841; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:39:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA00962 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:37:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (artemis.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA00914 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:37:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc (ppp25.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.145]) by artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA08655 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:38:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005c01be398a$c55366c0$91a06480@dsc> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: Shakespeare in Love Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:39:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >I loved this film as well. What a delight, although my historian spouse >spent a fair amount of time griping that the Virginia colonies weren't >around until after 1600 something or other. Also, he said tobacco wasn't >an interest until well after that. > >Has anybody got the correct dates on the establishment of the Virginia >colony? Jamestown, I believe, was founded in 1608, if I recall correctly, although there was an unsuccessful colony before that in what would later be known as the Carolinas. However, "Virginia" had been known and explored before that--hence the name, after Queen Elizabeth. The period portrayed in the movie would be mid-1590s, I believe. So they were pushing it a bit with an actual settled colony, but not with knowledge of the land. As for tobacco, there's this lovely English madrigal called "Come, Sirrah Jack, ho!" by Thomas Weelkes, which is about the tobacco craze. It was published in 1608, and by the familiarity demonstrated in the song, I believe people must have been using it before that time. My copy of _Daily Life in Elizabethan England_ says that tobacco was first brought to England during Elizabeth's reign and was common in alehouses. Susan Carroll-Clark _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 10:45:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16118 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:45:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA05109; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:54:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA03670 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:52:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA03664 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:52:07 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id OTDWa04297 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:51:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:51:21 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare In Love Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 1/6/99 1:21:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, rcarnegie@widomaker.com writes: << The first settlment in Virginia (by the English) was at Roanoke in 1584, and failed after two years. >> Yes...the "Lost Colony" which....if it weren't lost....would be on the Outer Banks of NC. It was all Virginia then...in fact the 1st English child born in America to Eleanor Dare was christened Virginia. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 10:48:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16131 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:48:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA05420; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:57:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA04401 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:55:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA04350 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:55:11 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ABWRa03211 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:54:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6ff76079.3693873c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:54:36 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare/anachronisms Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 1/6/99 8:28:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, pulliam@acadia.net writes: << <> The majority of doublets were buttoned up the front. Jerkins, when worn, were worn over sleeved doublets. >> Of course the doublet should be laced at the waist to the hose....no? This makes the "trunk hose and just a shirt" look very suspect to me. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 10:52:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16149 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:52:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA05908; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:02:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA05245 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:59:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA05219 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:59:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.42] (ell156.acadia.net [205.217.218.211]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA25872 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:59:18 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:59:18 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: Shakespeare/anachronisms Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> <> There's no doubt about that. However, the original question was about the anachronisms in the movie Shakespeare in Love, which is dated 1593. At that point, there were no permanent settlements in Virginia, and therefore no tobacco plantations. Therefore, Viola's husband's reference to the success of his tobacco plantations is an anachronism. Back to historic costuming, I hope. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 10:55:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16167 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:55:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA06327; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:04:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA05996 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:02:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA05984 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:02:19 -0700 (MST) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DYATZB9H; Wed, 06 Jan 1999 11:01:56 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:48:48 -0600 Subject: H-COST: Re: HELP Message-ID: <19990106.095015.25342.15.seamstrix@juno.com> References: <00bb01be398a$174aca00$cb860318@cc1010062-a.avnl1.nj.home.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-10,16-19 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com I think that we are having some terminology problems here people! Linen in today's usage is made from the fibers of the stalk of the flax plant. It's made from the fibers of the stalk because that's basically all flax is, stalk. It is a grass with few leaves and an insignificant root system. By the time the flax is ready to harvest, it's just stalk. In my salad days as a re-enactor I did flax processing from dried stalk to spun thread on a regular basis. the only part of the process I haven't directly done is the retting (soaking in water to help the extraneous bit decay). In other periods linen could apparently refer to any fabric made with long plant fibers such as hemp, nettles, and ramie. Today those fibers are generally called by their individual names and the term linen reserved for fabric made from flax. If an inferior grade of flax fiber is used you would get tow cloth which was generally used for clothing for the very poor or industrial uses such as sacking. Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 11:17:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16243 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:17:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA08675; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:26:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA10641 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:24:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA10623 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:24:11 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip134.van17.pacifier.com [216.65.137.134]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA01427 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:24:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901061624.IAA01427@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:23:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule Priority: normal In-reply-to: <990105104825.1f6480@centum.utulsa.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > Ma'am, while I would personally prefer a two-foot, or even a two-millimeter > rule, I am content to encourage a ten-foot rule for accuracy since, to judge > from what I have seen at various things (including, but not limited to, SCA > and Faires) even -that-'s exceeding some people's levels of interest and > willingness. I don't mean to criticize those people in those venues who are > doing some darned good work. I'm just saying that I find the "ten foot rule", > a good, non-threatening, basic standard to encourage when dealing with people > or places that have no other rigidly held standards. I agree with that! I've also found that when people first start out (and sometimes for a long time after) they may have all the research in hand, but not know how to execute it. I once was asked to step into a blowup after a costume contest judging. Unfortunately, the judges had not handled it especially well (combined with a lack of understanding on the part of the contestant, to be fair all the way around.) The contestant had been livid because the judges had not marked her costume very highly, especially in the "appearance of appropriate undergarments" portion. The contestant had entered an Elizabethan in the Full Court contest. She had all sorts of lovely documentation (most of it period quotes as opposed to pictures). She had documented her farthingale from Norah Waugh's Corsets and Crinolines book. However, somehow she had missed the idea that the farthingale was a *boned* garment. She kept pointing to her nylon tube slip and saying "I am too wearing a farthingale!" Inexperienced people often don't know what they are seeing in the research they have in their hands. They need gentle guidance to do so. If letting them do their best efforts only results in looking acceptable at 10' until they get the hang of it isn't good enough, I suspect that they could never have the nerve to keep trying. I don't think any of us starts perfect. Shoot, I had been costuming since I was old enough to hold a needle (about 3 year old, my family tells me), but it wasn't until I joined the SCA and found out about wonderful books like Francois Boucher's 20,000 years of fashion and Milia Davenport's costume book that I was able to "take off" in terms of my research. Without the gentle guidance of the group (any group), I would have stuck with the ones I had found at the library and the local book stores: Iris Brookes, Ruth Wilcox, Gorsline, and Selbie's _Anatomy of Costume_. (I call these "survey books". Good for getting a basic idea of the shape, but look in art books for their sources and try to find out from other sources how they were really made.) Now I'm doing things like going to museums to do original research. There's a big difference between where I am now and where I started. It is due to the guidance and, later, mental stimulation of all the groups I've been in contact with since then. But it had to start somewhere! Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 11:17:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16247 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:17:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA08733; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA10672 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:24:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA10653 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:24:17 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip134.van17.pacifier.com [216.65.137.134]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA02788 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:24:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901061624.IAA02788@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:23:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36925569.9640E596@serv.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > If I had time to pull the documentation together and write the paper in three > days, I would enter it in the Court Garb contest this weekend at Coronation / > Twelth Night. Do it anyway and bring the books. Although we judges would prefer to have documentation a little better organized than that, in the catagory you would be (probably the lower level intermediate since since I don't remember you winning one of the contests before), you might be best of that class. Documentation *is* important. However, good workmanship is also important. The contest may also help guide you in areas where you may not realized you didn't quite catch the point (which I doubt from what you write, but I've heard a lot of people talk a good story but then miss the point. For example, one woman told me all about her wonderful Elizabethan costume. She told me all the undergarments she was wearing. It sounded good. However, her "farthingale" was a nylon tube slip. She had missed the point about the farthingale being a boned garment.) It would also give you a good idea of what to expect in future years, if you haven't entered in the past. (Please don't be insulted that I don't remember if you have/haven't entered. I barely remember what I've seen the day before, since I've been judging these things for 13 years and see so many costumes each time. But then, I sometimes forget now what I wore the last event. They all seem to blurrrrrrrrrr.) > I am currently planning an Italian Renn, a Tudor, and an Elizabethan. > For the the next three annual costume contests. This should keep > me busy until 2002. heh. Go for it!!!!! Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 11:17:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16253 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:17:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA08696; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:26:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA10643 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:24:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA10632 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:24:12 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip134.van17.pacifier.com [216.65.137.134]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA28900 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:24:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901061624.IAA28900@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:23:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > But did they remove ribs in the 19th century or earlier? I don't know much > about medical history. But I believe that in the 1940s doctors were aware of how > to prevent infection (formerly a major cause of post-surgical death) by keeping > all tools, etc. free of bacteria. They also may have had better surgical > techniques than in the 19th century. I know that there was a lot of surgery going on of various sorts from very early (such as Egyptian times.) In the 19th Century there were many techniques being practiced. I have never seen any documentation for rib removal prior to the mid 19th C. From what I know of corsetry, I doubt that there would have been any reason for it. (Except in Marie d'Medici's court, or was it Catherine, where they were aiming for a 15" waist. That was an anomaly of the time period though, not a world wide phenomenon, and I sincerely doubt anyone considered rib removal at that point.) I think by the 1940s they had sulfa drugs > (which are not strictly speaking antibiotics but which combat infections; when I > was a child people allergic to penicillin were given sulfa drugs). There have been various things used to fight wound infection, including Basilica powder. I am currently short on time to do the research or I could tell you more explicitly. > There is also a difference between whether a doctor will perform a serious, even > potentially fatal operation in the hope of saving the life of someone who would > probably die without it, and whether the doctor would perform the same operation > for purely cosmetic reasons. There's a big difference between a mainstream doctor (who would agree with you as I do) and the kinds of charlatans and quacks who were allowed to practice in the 19th Century. I have been shocked over the years about how socalled "doctors" will put their normal scruples aside for money, even now. There are a whole host of mutilations (not necessarily voluntary) which have been done in the name of fashion: scarrification, tatoos, body piercing (to name some currently popular ones.) Circumcision (if you think it's really for medical purposes, think again. This is a *very* popular procedure and it is done more for "look alike" reasons than any other. I've finally stopped crying when I have to do one, but I still try to talk the parents out of it.) Female "circumcision" (which is *still* being practiced in some areas of the world, without anaesthesia, without antibiotics and without proper sterile technique). Castration. Neck elongation. Lip insertions. Flat head Indians (you didn't think that was a genetic head shape, do you?) Etc. Etc. Etc. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 11:17:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16252 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:17:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA08719; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA10669 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:24:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA10644 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:24:15 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip134.van17.pacifier.com [216.65.137.134]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA23475 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:24:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901061624.IAA23475@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:23:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: skeletons and stays Priority: normal In-reply-to: <7df7a5af.369272a4@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > I just received my show catalog for the Washington Antiques Show. Claudia > Kidwell, curator at National Museum of American History, has an excellent > article and drawings that explain stays, posture, women's silhouette of the > late 18th century. The show catalog is $10.00 -- a real value for the 5 > articles and pictures of the special exhibition of 18th century garments from > Mary Doerings private collection. Do you have an address where we can write to get one of these? (Pleading look is in eye, as I would love to have this but live in the "other" Washington.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 11:53:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16405 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:53:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA12909; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:02:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA19899 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:00:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA19875 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip157.an5-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.16.157]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA23093 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:00:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3693892B.E7EE26A1@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 12:02:53 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Flax Linen was re: HELP References: <00bb01be398a$174aca00$cb860318@CC1010062-A.avnl1.nj.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Somehow a lot of confusion seems to have come up on this thread about the flax/linen issue. Flax is *never* the name of a cloth. Flax is a bast plant; from its fibers, we make the cloth called linen. However, linen can also be made from, and in ancient and medieval times often was made from, the hemp plant. Thus there can be flaxen linen and hempen linen, which is probably coarser than flaxen linen; in medieval England, there was also something called 'harden' linen, which was made from the nubbly bits left over after the various preparatory processes (hackling, beating, combing, etc.) and was apparently extremely coarse. In medieval English documents, whether in English, French, or Latin, it is difficult to tell which kind of linen is being referred to; there is at least one scholar, Anne F. Sutton, who believes that most ordinary linen made in England was hempen linen, and I am inclined to agree. There are many Latin references to 'tela de canabo,' which literally means woven hemp, and presumably means hempen linen, since the English were not producing canvas in the Middle Ages--they imported it all. I hope this helps... Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 11:53:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16409 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:53:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA13047; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:03:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA17032 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:49:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA17020 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:49:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA22377 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:49:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36939419.520BBF2F@serv.net> Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 08:49:29 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule References: <199901061624.IAA02788@smtp.pacifier.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > Do it anyway and bring the books. Although we judges would prefer to > have documentation a little better organized than that, in the > catagory you would be in [snip], you > might be best of that class. Hmmm, this feels so overwhelming. I keep vacillating. Mainly because I don't want to turn in a shoddy research paper any more than a shoddy costume. > (Please don't be insulted that I > don't remember if you have/haven't entered. No worries. :) I haven't entered before. This would be my first. Merouda the dizzy -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 12:04:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16453 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:04:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA14098; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:12:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA21881 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:09:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id KAA21786 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:09:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from LISA [209.162.71.46] by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_00fc_3693_a7b0_f3eb; Wed, 06 Jan 1999 13:13:04 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990106081142.00977280@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 09:09:44 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare In Love In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19990106061909.00728854@mail.widomaker.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel At 01:19 AM 1/6/99 -0500, you wrote: > The tobacco habit apparently found it's way into Europe through >Portugal and Spain in the early mid 16th century, by way of those stationed >in the New World. By the mid century, dried tobacco was being shipped to >Europe, soon after the seeds, which quicly led to the plant being grown as a >medicinal herb. Yes, actually, my 11th great-grandfather (geneaology is another hobby of mine) was Sir Richard Hawkins (of defeating the Spanish Armada fame) and according to some accounts I have read, he is credited with bringing tobacco to Europe from the New World. Of course, he was only born in 1560, so perhaps not. Perhaps it was his father, Sir John Hawkins, born in 1532? Or perhaps this is just family legend? One line of my tree quite literally traces its roots back to Adam & Eve... :) *********************** lisa scovel historical reenactment guide the mining co. http://reenactment.miningco.com "Learning from history is never a one-way process. To learn about the present in terms of the past means also to learn about the past in the light of the present. The function of history is to promote a profounder understanding of both past and present through the interrelation between them." Edward Hallett Carr _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 12:37:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16558 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:37:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA18351; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:46:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA29227 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:44:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA29211 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:44:08 -0700 (MST) From: CONNECT@aol.com Received: from CONNECT@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id VTMDa01221 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:43:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2e41ae6c.3693a0af@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:43:11 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare In Love Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: CONNECT@aol.com In a message dated 1/5/99 8:22:37 PM, robingoodfellow4@juno.com writes: <> My understanding of a jerkin is that it's a sleeveless doublet worn over a doubtlet. Also, more often than not, a jerkin was made of leather--there were lots of fancy fabric jerkins made as well. That's why I say more often than not. If you're looking for pictures of doublets and jerkins, you might want to see Roy Strong's The English Icon: Elizabethan and Jacobean Portraiture. You should be able to get it on inter-library loan at your local public library. That's where I go garb idea shopping. :) Yours, Pattie Rayl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 12:55:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16642 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:55:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA20569; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:04:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA03350 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:00:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from arl-img-12.compuserve.com (arl-img-12.compuserve.com [149.174.217.142]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA03326 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:00:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by arl-img-12.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id MAA04770 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:59:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:59:21 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Flax Linen was re: HELP To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901061259_MC2-65B2-27D5@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id MAA16642 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson >Doesn't it make sense then that if 100% linen was available and used...so was flax linen?? I've tried to say this several times but not all the posting comes out. Strictly speaking Flax are the fibres. Linen is the cloth. Similar to calling a type of Nylon Fibre Tactel I guess. Hope this clears it up. Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 14:12:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA16954 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:12:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA01522; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:21:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA17634 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:18:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA17618 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:18:50 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id JGQEa04794 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:18:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:18:12 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: skeletons and stays Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com The Washington Antiques Show 8606 Country Club Drive Bethesda, Maryland 20817 Catalogue(s) by mail @ $10.00 each _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 14:24:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17000 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:24:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA02778; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:33:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA20567 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:31:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA20562 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:31:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.184] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zxyfU-00031M-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:31:00 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990106105412.00ba9100@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 10:55:22 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990105121303.0099f100@mail.tmsonline.com> References: <36926E99.582C462C@best.com> <19990105113322.746.qmail@hotmail.com> <199901051629.IAA13110@smtp.pacifier.com> <4.1.19990105112044.00969b30@mail.tmsonline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I wasn't arguing with you at all. Your comment merely conjured up one of those >random facts stuck in my brain and I began to wonder what, in fact, the >timeframe was for widespread sterilization. Personally, though sterilization >is an issue, of course, my immediate concern regarding such things would be >about anaesthesia! Anaesthesia is relatively modern. Starting with chloroform and ether. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 14:42:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17059 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:42:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA05032; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:51:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA25122 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:48:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooter.bluemarble.net (shooter.bluemarble.net [204.89.253.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA25107 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:48:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from wizzer (tc0-00.blm.bluemarble.net [208.245.166.80]) by shooter.bluemarble.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA12926 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:48:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990105224225.007d9b10@bluemarble.net> X-Sender: kimberly@bluemarble.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 22:42:25 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kimberly Gilbert Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations In-Reply-To: <299D25F7216@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> References: <199812310259.TAA17397@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kimberly Gilbert >I thought this was a Victorian association. The few *written* >references to it that I've seen were referring to 19thC >fables/superstitions. I first heard of it from an older friend of >the family (must have been in her sixties when I was a child) who >said that her mother would never let any of the family dress in green >and had told them that *her* mother had forbidden the family to wear >the colour either as it was said to be the colour of the fair-folk >and their mischief would bring sorrow on the house if they were >pretentious enough to claim kinship with the fairies..... Is it possible that the fairy color story began because of the other association (loose morals)? Perhaps the Victorians began claiming the fairies would not like people wearing green, because it was easier to think of fairies than of grass stains? Kimberly Kimberly Gilbert kimberly@bluemarble.net "This is terrible news! Do you actually intend to kill your enemies? Can't you just speak sternly to them?" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 14:59:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17157 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:59:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA07328; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:08:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA00245 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:06:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA00189 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:06:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA23218 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:05:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3693C241.1ABCAA1B@serv.net> Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 12:06:25 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: H-COST: I'm crazy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True So many of you wrote me about this so..... I just wrote a rough draft for that red cotehardie. I have sent it to a friend of mine who is good at this kind of thing for her input. I've gone this far, I might as well go to Kinko's at 3am. *sigh* My heart is pounding and I can't seem to catch my breath. Oh god, what have I done? -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 16:18:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA17556 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:18:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA15725; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:24:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA19594 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:21:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA19560 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:21:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.21.139 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:20:57 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: RE: Green Color Associations Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:23:30 -0500 Message-ID: <000801be39bb$0b63a5a0$0c1fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <3.0.5.32.19990105224225.007d9b10@bluemarble.net> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Mrs. Delaney described the wedding dress of Anne Princess Royal when she married William Prince of Orange in 1734: "The queen's clothes were on a green ground flowered with gold and several shades; but grave and very handsome; her head loaded with pearls and diamonds..." and "a manteau and a petticoat, white damask, with the finest embroidery of rich embossed gold and festoons of flowers intermixed with their natural colours. On one side of her head she had a green diamond of a vast size, the shape of a pear, and two pearls prodigiously large that were fastened to wires and hung loose on her hair: on the other side small diamonds prettily disposed, her earrings, necklace, and bars to her stays, all extravagantly fine, presents of the Prince of Orange to her. Now could someone explain precisely what the "bars to her stays" might have been? Sort of a bar shaped brooches of some kind??? Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Kimberly Gilbert Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 10:42 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations -Poster: Kimberly Gilbert >I thought this was a Victorian association. The few *written* >references to it that I've seen were referring to 19thC >fables/superstitions. I first heard of it from an older friend of >the family (must have been in her sixties when I was a child) who >said that her mother would never let any of the family dress in green >and had told them that *her* mother had forbidden the family to wear >the colour either as it was said to be the colour of the fair-folk >and their mischief would bring sorrow on the house if they were >pretentious enough to claim kinship with the fairies..... Is it possible that the fairy color story began because of the other association (loose morals)? Perhaps the Victorians began claiming the fairies would not like people wearing green, because it was easier to think of fairies than of grass stains? Kimberly Kimberly Gilbert kimberly@bluemarble.net "This is terrible news! Do you actually intend to kill your enemies? Can't you just speak sternly to them?" ____________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 17:17:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17825 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:17:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA23130; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:26:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA28327 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:01:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from schultz.io.com (ches@schultz.io.com [199.170.88.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA28314 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:01:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by schultz.io.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA19922 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:01:43 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: schultz.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:01:43 -0600 (CST) From: ches To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Flax Linen was re: HELP In-Reply-To: <199901061259_MC2-65B2-27D5@compuserve.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ches I have a different question but kinda the same. What material was used for those egyptian headdresses? Are there any good source books about them and thier construction that any of you have actually recreated these from? Ches _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 19:39:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18369 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 19:39:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA07456; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:48:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA27973 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:46:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA27965 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:45:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p30.directcon.net [206.170.184.79]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA05170 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:42:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:42:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901070042.QAA05170@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Flax Linen was re: HELP Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson Somehow a lot of confusion seems to have come up on this thread about >the flax/linen issue. Flax is *never* the name of a cloth. I'm afraid that should read "should never be" not "is never". Some years ago, I was working at House of Fabrics. We got a shipment of a new line of fabric that was named "Flax". As I recall, it was a nice heavy 50/50/ cotton/linen blend. Perhaps the poster saw some of this fabric for sale? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 19:47:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18397 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 19:47:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA08251; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:57:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA29206 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:54:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA29178 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:54:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p30.directcon.net [206.170.184.79]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA06422 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:50:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:50:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901070050.QAA06422@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Jerkin/doublet (was:Shakespeare In Love) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >My understanding of a jerkin is that it's a sleeveless doublet worn over a >doubtlet. Except that, according to Janet Arnold, there are period references to sleeved jerkins and doublets without sleeves. Since there appear to have been people who called themselves jerkin makers, and tailors advertised making doublets, she guessed that jerkins might have been an easier garment to make, requiring less skill than that of a fully trained tailor. It's possible that the jerkin was a less structured, more loosely fitted garment than the doublet. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 20:14:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18492 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 20:14:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA10650; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA02882 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:21:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA02874 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:21:36 -0700 (MST) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id DFVPa01440 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 20:18:47 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 20:18:47 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com Hi all, I'm finally starting to tackle a project I've been wanting to do for some time - German Ren costumes for me and my husband. My normal time period is the 1800s so this is quite a different ball of wax for me...I have patterns to use as my basis for the costumes and I've done some research and found info regarding silhouettes but I've got a few questions I don't know the answers to, particularly regarding fabrics. I'd like these to be reasonably accurate and would like to use velveteen since I've got a ton of black velveteen. But is cotton velveteen the right thing to use? Or is nylon/rayon velvet more appropriate? (silk's outta price range) Any tips on the best way to slash velvet? Brocade is often mentioned as being used in the plastron, but none of the illustrations I've seen are very clear on what this brocade looks like, any hints on the types of modern brocades that might work for this? And what colors are correct? I'm assuming the puffs/undersleeves should be a light weight white cotton fabric, like batiste, is this right? I've got an Elizabethan corset (a la hunniset) will this work for German Ren? Or do I even need one...? And finally anyone know of patterns/instructions on how to make those wacky hats they wore? Any and all info is greatly appreciated. Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 20:31:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18560 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 20:31:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA11938; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:39:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA04967 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:37:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA04901 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:37:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from slave (BayArea56k596.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.196]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id RAA14719 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:37:12 -0800 Message-ID: <36940ED0.5807@netwiz.net> Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 17:33:04 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: egyptian headdresses References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi ches wrote: > > -Poster: ches > > I have a different question but kinda the same. What material was used for > those egyptian headdresses? Are there any good source books about them WHICH egyptian headresses?? There are so many. Susan -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 23:06:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA19263 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:06:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA25453; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:16:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA16851 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:13:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA16804 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:13:38 -0700 (MST) From: Tsrra@aol.com Received: from Tsrra@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 0SOCa01433 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:11:24 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:11:24 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Flax Linen was re: HELP Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Tsrra@aol.com In a message dated 99-01-06 17:24:27 EST, you write: << What material was used for those egyptian headdresses? Are there any good source books about them and thier construction that any of you have actually recreated these from? >> At the risk of having inadequate information again, I will respond: leather, stiffened linen, basketry, metalwork, beads. If you refer to Pharonic crowns, I have made them out of shaped felt, then put a fabric over them. What construction information I have, has been gleaned from archaeological reports. TS Ohara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 23:35:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA19415 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:35:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA27724; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:45:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA00416 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:42:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA00387 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:42:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-61-45.s45.tnt1.rcm.erols.com [207.172.61.45]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA15159 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:42:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000201be39f8$3363be40$2d3daccf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: "costume newsgroup" Subject: H-COST: Elizabethan Colors Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:42:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" Here is a wonderful article, "Colors for Lower-Class Elizabethan Clothing". You may find it at http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/lowerclass/lcolors.html . Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 6 23:50:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA19465 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:50:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA29032; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:59:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA07981 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:57:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from dgs.dgsys.com (robin@dgs.dgsys.com [204.97.64.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA07889 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:57:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by dgs.dgsys.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA12152 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:56:58 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: dgs.dgsys.com: robin owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:56:58 -0500 (EST) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990105224225.007d9b10@bluemarble.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, Kimberly Gilbert wrote: > Is it possible that the fairy color story began because of the other > association (loose morals)? Perhaps the Victorians began claiming the > fairies would not like people wearing green, because it was easier to > think of fairies than of grass stains? I can't say yea or nay on whether the Victorians popularized (or re-popularized) the folklore interpretation, or why. But there's plenty of evidence back to medieval times for the idea of green being associated with the supernatural and the magical. The "green man" is a common enough fantasy image in cathedral stonecarvings and other artwork, though the color reference is not associated with clothing in that case. The most recognizable literary reference to green clothing as a sign of the supernatural would be the Green Knight -- dressed completely in green, with green skin and hair -- who challenged Gawain (the poem is 14th c., the story possibly earlier). Also in that poem, Ber(t/c)ilak's wife gives Gawain a green belt with magical powers. Ber(t/c)ilak is later revealed to be the Green Knight (kind of like a secret identity), but the reader doesn't know that when the magical green belt shows up, so the color reference is not meant to represent a household color. Regarding earlier posts on this thread (which I have been reading sporadically; forgive me if I am repeating anything already said): It should be noted that in the original text of the song Greensleeves, the lady is not definitively a prostitute, because she never grants her favors to the singer (despite his many gifts to her). The song can be easily (maybe more easily) read as lampooning a foolish man who thinks he can buy a lady's love, and who doesn't know how to take "no" for an answer. Referring to a person by the color of her clothing for identification (particularly if you're being poetic and you don't want to reveal someone's identity) is not at all hard to understand. It was common enough in the Middle Ages and early Renaissance for people (even nobility) to wear the same gown day to day, and into the 15th century, it was rare that anyone except the very rich and the royalty had more than a few changes of clothes. Yes, there are plenty of exceptions, but if one does see the idea of a small wardrobe as the norm -- which it was -- then you can understand why a poet might describe his unidentified lady by her clothing. That convention may have lasted into the 16th century, even after larger wardrobes became more common. So while the color reference *may* have had some significance in the "Greensleeves" appelation, there's no absolute *need* to read any significance into it. I found the references to "giving a green gown" of interest -- I hadn't heard that before. However, I find it dubious to extrapolate from the "green gown" euphemism any implications about the wearing of actual green cloth or clothing, in any period. I would place more credence in inventories, wills, trade documents, or dyer's records that would indicate whether green was a popular or unpopular color in a given place/time. Perhaps someone who has spent more time with Elizabethan color descriptions can tell us whether green was oddly absent from records at the time in which Greensleeves was popular. In any case, I suspect any reference to "giving a green gown" is independent of the (earlier) faerie folklore regarding the color. Citations: I have the full text of Greensleeves in a Dover reprint of a poetry collection called "A Handful of Pleasant Delights," by Clement Robinson and Divers Others, ed. by Hyder E. Rollins. Actually, the Dover edition is a reprint of a 1924 study that includes the full text of a British Museum copy of the "Handful." The "Handful" itself is a collection of broadside ballads that appeared over a span of years. It had more than one edition; Shakespeare is thought to have been familiar with the collection. The British Museum volume was published in 1584, according to Rollins' introduction. The dating is complicated, and Rollins goes into some length that I won't pursue here. Rollins documents a slew of "response" ballads on Greensleeves that came out in 1580, suggesting that the broadside version appeared in that year. Some of the titles of those responses Rollins cites are "ye Ladie Greene Sleeves answere to Donkyn hir frende" and "Greene Sleves moralised to the Scripture Declaring the manifold benefites and blessinges of God bestowed on sinfull manne." These are not obviously suggestive of a prostitute, but that doesn't mean that there wasn't a response that presented Lady Greensleeve as a prostitute, and so that reference may be to one specific such ballad. The "Handful" is a lot of fun, and has some good costume references. It may be still available from Dover -- I bought mine for $1.75 in the 1970s. --Robin, passing through _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 00:01:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA19508 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:01:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA29777; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 22:10:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA14173 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 22:08:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA14154 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 22:08:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.64.40.232]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with ESMTP id <19990107050746.EDBV8305@worldnet.att.net> for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 05:07:46 +0000 Message-ID: <36943F57.25B80393@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 21:00:07 -0800 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Marionetta@aol.com wrote: > I'd like these to be reasonably accurate and would like to use velveteen since > I've got a ton of black velveteen. But is cotton velveteen the right thing to > use? Or is nylon/rayon velvet more appropriate? (silk's outta price range) > Any tips on the best way to slash velvet? I'm certainly no expert but I did take a class at Costume College from Mistress Juliana who is (imo) an expert on German Ren. I wouldn't try to slash velvet. If you want slashed sleeves use a good felted wool. It won't ravel and velvet will ravel like crazy if you slash and not finish off the edges. CArolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 00:55:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA20291 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:55:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA03087; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:04:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA27705 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:01:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id XAA27694 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:01:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 19330 invoked from network); 7 Jan 1999 06:03:00 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-234.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.234) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 1999 06:03:00 -0000 Message-ID: <36933267.1ED9@mc.net> Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 01:52:44 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: ether References: <199901060516.WAA22388@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law It was Queen Victoria's enthusiastism for ether during childbirth that popularized it. Clergymen denounced the practice, but after all she was head of the church and of course, everyone knew she would never do anything wrong. Carol Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 01:13:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA20579 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:13:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA03925; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:21:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA28925 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:19:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA28915 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:19:40 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LQMYa27784; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:18:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3b3e583b.369451c1@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:18:41 EST To: Vrhsnipes@aol.com, h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Re: Cavalier hats=Sources Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com Vivien & list Since this has come up a couple of times, I thought I'd cc the list. Southern Importers 4825 San Jacinto Houston, TX 77004 (713) 524-8236 p. 40 of the 1999 catalog. Item #20 1) Best quality is $24.95; less expensive is $8.95. I recently purchased several of the $8.95 variety and they were pretty good for the price. Sturdy and looked okay from the audience in a very small theater. Theater House, Inc. 400 West Third Street P.O. Box 2090 Covington, KY 41012-2090 p.45 current catalog. Item #3830; price $11.95 ++++++ Hatcrafters, Inc. 20 N. Springfield Road Clifton Heights, PA 19018 610-623-2620 they have 15 different models, wholesale prices vary $45 - $65 (Real Quality headwear, expensive, but well made, they supply film, tv, stage, etc.) All of the above will send you a mail-order catalog. angil ++++++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing "Yes, all my laurels you have riven away and all my roses; yet in spite of you, there is one crown I bear away with me, and tonight, when I enter before God, my salute shall sweep all the stars away from the blue threshold! One thing without stain, unspotted from the world, in spite of doom, mine own! and that is.... my white plume!" ~~ Edmond Rostand's Cyrano de Bergerac In a message dated 1/6/99 17:47:34 Pacific Standard Time, Vrhsnipes writes: << In h-costume digest V4#14 you made a note that you have two sources for cavalier style hats. I would be very interested in knowing where you got them if you would be so kind as to share it. We did 3 Musketeers in October of 1997 and had a heck of a time finding them. If we do Puss and Boots next year (which is in the strong possible performance list) I'd be a step or three ahead. >> _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 02:14:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA20812 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:14:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA06551; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:23:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA03089 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:21:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA03076 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:21:34 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip158.van17.pacifier.com [216.65.137.158]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA09062 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:21:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901070721.XAA09062@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:20:19 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: I'm crazy Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3693C241.1ABCAA1B@serv.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com Merouda wrote: > I just wrote a rough draft for that red cotehardie. I have sent it to > a friend of mine who is good at this kind of thing for her input. > I've gone this far, I might as well go to Kinko's at 3am. *sigh* My > heart is pounding and I can't seem to catch my breath. Oh god, what > have I done? As one of the people who will be on the judging panel for the contest she's talking about, I promise not to eat her. I promise not to let the other judges eat her. I've never bitten anyone in the 13 years I've been judging this contest and I don't plan on starting now. I suspect that she'll probably win her class (as we have 4 classes: novice, not really novice but not much experience with entering costume contests or not feeling confident with costuming yet, intermediates who have won a contest before, and "experts" like those who are Laurels, journeyman or above in the non-SCA costume societies or who have won at the regular intermediate level of our contest.) I can't promise that she'll win her class (and we deliberately don't have an "overall" winner), but you all can cross your fingers for her! Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 02:14:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA20816 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:14:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA06560; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:23:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA03090 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:21:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA03082 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:21:35 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip158.van17.pacifier.com [216.65.137.158]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA15483 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:21:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901070721.XAA15483@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:20:19 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare In Love Priority: normal In-reply-to: <2e41ae6c.3693a0af@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > < buttoning (and a lot of *un* buttonning) of doublets. Is that accurate? > And shouldn't Will have been wearing a jerkin under his doublet?>> > > My understanding of a jerkin is that it's a sleeveless doublet worn over a > doubtlet. Also, more often than not, a jerkin was made of leather--there were > lots of fancy fabric jerkins made as well. That's why I say more often than > not. > > If you're looking for pictures of doublets and jerkins, you might want to see > Roy Strong's The English Icon: Elizabethan and Jacobean Portraiture. You > should be able to get it on inter-library loan at your local public library. > That's where I go garb idea shopping. :) For a description of the layers worn in Elizabethan costuming, I would suggest C. Willett Cunnington and Phillis Cunnington's book on Clothing in the 16th Century. It's not available on any booksearches for sale, but most of the better textile, costuming and drama libraries usually have a copy. I got my copy done by the UofW from their drama library (back in the days when they would copy whole out of print books for scholarly use.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 02:27:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA20922 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:27:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA07172; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:37:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA03840 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:35:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA03833 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:35:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.184] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zy9yB-0007hh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:35:03 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990106124655.00bbf1a0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 12:48:34 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare In Love In-Reply-To: <19990105.175310.10823.5.robingoodfellow4@juno.com> References: <19990105154621.718.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Secondly, I do have a couple costume questions. There seemed to be >buttoning (and a lot of *un* buttonning) of doublets. Is that accurate? >And shouldn't Will have been wearing a jerkin under his doublet? If memory serves, the jerkin goes over the doublet. If he could have afforded one he would have worn it. And yes, they buttoned. Unless they hooked. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 02:27:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA20924 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:27:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA07183; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:37:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA03854 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:35:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA03841 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:35:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.184] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zy9yE-0007hh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:35:07 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990106125950.00b96520@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 13:10:22 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: 10' Rule - setting a good example In-Reply-To: <369369D1.8D35C87C@nash.tds.net> References: <19990106100717Z40815-295+59@tuug.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I personally think that setting a good example is the most important single thing we can do for newbies. This goes for any period of clothes we are doing. It's more important than is the cloth linen or linen-look cotton, more important than is it hand sewn or machine sewn, and more important than is the colour perfect or just close. If we hold to our high standards and set that expectation for newbies, they will know we mean it. This will require teaching and tolerance (as it does with children, the original newbies), but they will get there. As more newbies graduate to knowing what they are doing and teaching others what they know, everyone will get better. Disclaimer - I am not advocating treating of newbies like children. I just happen to be a Mom and am aware of different learning curves than my own. >> I think it's not very easy to do bad work and use bad materials >> and still get a costume that looks good from 3m (10'). I mean >> one can spot errors in cut from that distance, grommets, >> (most) artificial fibres instead of silk and so on from that >> distance. From 60cm (2', about one's arms length) one can >> see almost every small mistake, perhaps even whether it's >> handsewn or not (and certainly whether embroidery was >> hand or machine made). >> >> So what is reasonable level and what are good ways to help >> newcomers to achieve that? I think the point at first was that >> not everybody has money for the right materials (at least here >> ok quality linen costs about $11 per metre) or time for >> handsewing. > >I always recommend using a coarse weave or linen look >cotton, cutting out a t-tunic (or t-tunic dress), seaming >the interior seams with the machine as well as the hem and >then handsewing the hems. > Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 02:34:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA20972 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:34:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA07444; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:43:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA04186 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:41:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from aus.compassnet.com.au ([203.26.180.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id AAA04180 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:41:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from wayne-s-pc by aus.compassnet.com.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA06810; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:37:30 +1100 Message-ID: <0ad601be3a15$3f8ecd00$1db51acb@wayne-s-pc> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare/anachronisms Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:47:47 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Glenda Robinson" AlbertCat wrote: > >Of course the doublet should be laced at the waist to the hose....no? This >makes the "trunk hose and just a shirt" look very suspect to me. The hose that my husband wears in both 1525 and 1640 reenactment are both of the type that tie to the doublet. However, that doesn't mean that they are not worn without the doublet. With these types of hose, the ties are through the waistband (which are not usually of the same material as the hose, BTW). These waistbands tend to be tailored to fit the wearer, so are able to be worn without the doublet without overly exposing oneself. There is quite often a point tied across the front of the band as well, which can be seen in the oft-quoted Arnold, Patterns of Fashion, to hold the front in. Glenda -------------------------------- Glenda Robinson Flamberge Computer Services glendar@compassnet.com.au _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 03:09:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA26781 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 03:09:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA08593; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:19:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA06190 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:17:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA06181 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:17:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zyAcs-0001ze-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990106232920.00b96100@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 23:33:37 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <199901061624.IAA28900@smtp.pacifier.com> References: <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I have real trouble believing actual 15" waists. There is a lot of in-period talking about this, and even stories about women who supposedly had them. I remain unconvinced. My Sweetie has a neck bigger than 15". >I have never seen any documentation for rib removal prior to the mid >19th C. From what I know of corsetry, I doubt that there would have >been any reason for it. (Except in Marie d'Medici's court, or was it >Catherine, where they were aiming for a 15" waist. That was an >anomaly of the time period though, not a world wide phenomenon, and >I sincerely doubt anyone considered rib removal at that point.) Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 03:09:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA26785 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 03:09:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA08604; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:19:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA06196 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:17:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA06191 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:17:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zyAcw-0001ze-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 00:17:10 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990106233902.00b8cdc0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 23:55:59 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Aah, a woman after my own period... >I'm finally starting to tackle a project I've been wanting to do for some time >- German Ren costumes for me and my husband. My normal time period is the >1800s so this is quite a different ball of wax for me...I have patterns to use >as my basis for the costumes and I've done some research and found info >regarding silhouettes but I've got a few questions I don't know the answers >to, particularly regarding fabrics. > >I'd like these to be reasonably accurate and would like to use velveteen since >I've got a ton of black velveteen. But is cotton velveteen the right thing to >use? Or is nylon/rayon velvet more appropriate? (silk's outta price range) Silk is what they had, but there is a story of a German Duchess who sold one of her villiages to pay for a velvet dress. If the garment must be washed, use whatever you have to which includes washability. If not, use what shines most like the silk stuff. Use it for the 'guards', that band trim. >Any tips on the best way to slash velvet? Apply it on the grain, slash it exactly on the bias. This way it will fuzz a little (and shed lots of pile) but it won't actually fray. Brocade is often mentioned as being >used in the plastron, but none of the illustrations I've seen are very clear >on what this brocade looks like, any hints on the types of modern brocades >that might work for this? Use what you can find with 'pineapples' or 'pomegranites' on it. Look at the Flemish illos from the late 1400's to see what I mean. (As in, not Hawaiian pineapples.) And what colors are correct? Check in the same places. Painters to look up include Cranach, Breughel, and Durer, and all those photo-realistic Flemish guys from the late 1400's. I'm assuming the >puffs/undersleeves should be a light weight white cotton fabric, like batiste, >is this right? Earlier this puffing is actually the shirt. Later it could be thin taffeta, and is colours other than white. Muslin weight is best. They used linen not cotton, so look for a linen-look 100% natural fibre cloth (or you'll roast in it). I've got an Elizabethan corset (a la hunniset) will this work >for German Ren? No. The English used a cone-shaped corset, and the Germans didn't. The German ones allowed for the female shape in front. There is one in Janet Arnold. Or do I even need one...? Later yes, earlier, maybe not. And finally anyone know of >patterns/instructions on how to make those wacky hats they wore? I have some. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 03:53:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA26924 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 03:53:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA10396; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:02:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA08264 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:00:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA08258 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:00:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-71-59.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.71.59]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id BAA29175 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:00:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36940873.5FC37855@pacbell.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 01:06:01 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule References: <19990106100717Z40815-295+59@tuug.org> <369369D1.8D35C87C@nash.tds.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings good people, Someone asked: >> So what is reasonable level and what are good ways to help >> newcomers to achieve that? I think the point at first was that >> not everybody has money for the right materials (at least here >> ok quality linen costs about $11 per metre) or time for >> handsewing. Kat responded: > I always recommend using a coarse weave or linen look cotton, > cutting out a t-tunic (or t-tunic dress), seaming the interior > seams with the machine as well as the hem and then handsewing > the hems. Yes, but do you help them with period patterns or use the "trace around a dress shirt" method? I show people a pile of swatches (someday I'll make a swatch book) and give them ideas for acceptable substitutions. We tell them where they can buy stuff cheap and occasionally schedule a "safari" to the garment district. I'll pass along the titles of good reference books, help with patterns and patterning. This month we'll be holding a workshop specifically for newcomers to get some costumes patterned or have problems solved. There is a definite learning curve, and we try to help them up it as fast as is reasonable. Everyone will settle into a level where they feel comfortable. That might not be as authentic as I would like, but I'm not going to drum them out of the group. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 03:58:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA26944 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 03:58:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA10739; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:08:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA08559 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:06:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from send204.yahoomail.com (send204.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.158]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id CAA08554 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 02:06:09 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990107091119.27387.rocketmail@send204.yahoomail.com> Received: from [194.168.181.16] by send204.yahoomail.com; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 01:11:19 PST Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 01:11:19 -0800 (PST) From: Anne Foote Subject: H-COST: Stays & girdles - effects To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Anne Foote Re rib removal - I am sure this fell into the "man bites dog" category. It may well have happened in Victorian times, but it was never more than a few cases hitting the headlines ? The original poster asked about the effects of stay wearing, and replies have covered lung capacity, livers and such. I think there are more effects Not stays, but the 1920 boob squashing bras. One I remember seeing in a musuem looked painfully effective - vertical bones across each breast, and FLAT. At the time doctors cited these as causing inverted nipples and milk supply problems. 19C stays - apparently you were unlikely to slip a vertebra when laced in. Slipped disks were for men ! Posture and movement was important for both fashion and class. If the corset made you sit and stand in the way then surely there must have been some long term effects on the poor old body? Was it posture & movement that was the reason behind Vict little girls wearing corsets rather than the pursuit of the mythical 18 inch waist ? I have seen in 19C beauty books one of the effects on the human body of tight stays was constipation.This touched a raw nerve with the Victorians. They knew all about purging and stong laxatives. Several r-enactors have told me that both 18 and 19 C have non physical effects. They tell me that they more elegant and superior. Also they feel . Don't forget the 1950/60s ! I am JUST old enough to remember the hot and scratchy firm control girdles and long line bras of the early 1960s. (Bones, hooks and eyes, deep breath to get into them, anybody else remember ?) They sure changed my shape, posture and movement. Look at 1950 movies / TV recordings - those women are not shaped as we are today. An afterthought for today's fashions. Last Christmas two of my nieces (14 &15 Yrs old) were discussing the younger's Christmas present - a wonderbra. I laughed when I heard that you "have to wear it for a few days for your boobs to get used to it." The human body is so malleable and accomodating - there must have been many effects of wearing rigid and tight stays from an early age. Annie _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 05:49:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA27311 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 05:49:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA13275; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 03:58:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA01817 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 03:56:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from server1.mich.com (root@server1.mich.com [198.108.16.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA01626 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 03:56:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from raille (pm187-08.dialip.mich.net [198.110.44.18]) by server1.mich.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA24482 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 05:56:14 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990107060257.00794500@onramp.i2k.com> X-Sender: alwen@onramp.i2k.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 06:02:57 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Lynn Carpenter Subject: H-COST: Small wardrobe, was Color associations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Carpenter Robin Netherton wrote: >Referring to a person by the color of her clothing for identification >(particularly if you're being poetic and you don't want to reveal >someone's identity) is not at all hard to understand. It was common enough >in the Middle Ages and early Renaissance for people (even nobility) to >wear the same gown day to day, and into the 15th century, it was rare that >anyone except the very rich and the royalty had more than a few changes of >clothes. Yes, there are plenty of exceptions, but if one does see the idea >of a small wardrobe as the norm -- which it was -- then you can understand >why a poet might describe his unidentified lady by her clothing. That >convention may have lasted into the 16th century, even after larger >wardrobes became more common. So while the color reference *may* have had >some significance in the "Greensleeves" appelation, there's no absolute >*need* to read any significance into it. This brings up something I've been wondering for a long time. I'm in the SCA, and my area groups often hog the bathrooms before feast to change their clothing. I can see this for the fighters, who are hot and sweaty. But did pre-1600's people actually "change for dinner"? This feels to me to be a much later custom. Anyone have dates on "dinner dress"? It would be way out of my 11th century timeframe... Lynn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 06:45:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA27490 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 06:44:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA14789; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 04:54:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA12086 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 04:52:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA12080 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 04:52:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.113]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id DAA10183; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 03:52:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id DAA18165; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 03:52:12 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhRkDYG47WbWj2XdKRHxMIwPR43eEQIVAKc0vPqFQblfWtNkfn2pYES2DA2U From: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 04:52:12 -0700 (MST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Message-ID: <14641-36949FEC-158@mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 's message of Wed, 06 Jan 1999 23:33:37 -0800 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) I believe, it is possible. You would have to be petite like so many women of that age, not an amazon like me :) I looked at that website sited and was amazed at how deformed those women looked. Not attractive at all. One lady in the site had on what looked like a red leather job and an incredibly tiny waist. Starsinger _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 07:28:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA27636 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 07:28:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA16062; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 05:38:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA14130 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 05:36:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from send204.yahoomail.com (send204.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.158]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id FAA14125 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 05:36:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990107124115.7134.rocketmail@send204.yahoomail.com> Received: from [194.168.181.20] by send204.yahoomail.com; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 04:41:15 PST Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 04:41:15 -0800 (PST) From: Dora Barnes Subject: H-COST: Stays, skeletons and girdles To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dora Barnes <<<>>>>>> I was wearing a girdle at age 14 in 195 ehem, and when I was 15 my mother saw it natural for me to be in firm control girdle and longline bra for best wear. I was ambivalent towards them, it was rite of passage to womanhood, and they could be very uncomfortable at the end of a long day. My sister complained that after a week in bed ill and had lost weight, she found it difficult to get back into her girdle - I suppose she had gone back to her ungirdled shape during the week. I think this was an example of shape change in the medium term. The Victorians probably had similar effects, but magnified as their corsets were much harsher. I do not want to bore all you experts with the problems of my underwear as an adolescent. However, thinking back I can remember what my mother, her mother etc were telling. And in those days the older generation were always right. "Nice firm girdles" were essential, not only for the visual shape, but for support, posture and the indefinable - "it was good for you". I think my mother and her generation genuinely expected some ladylike permanent changes in me through the firm control lingerie. I am still a tomboy ! Dora _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 09:02:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28068 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:02:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA20046; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 07:11:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA20465 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 07:09:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA20455 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 07:09:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a18.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.146]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA28527 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:09:23 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3694C010.2EC71E9A@nash.tds.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 08:09:21 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule References: <19990106100717Z40815-295+59@tuug.org> <369369D1.8D35C87C@nash.tds.net> <36940873.5FC37855@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat Dietmar wrote: > > Kat responded: > > > I always recommend using a coarse weave or linen look cotton, > > cutting out a t-tunic (or t-tunic dress), seaming the interior > > seams with the machine as well as the hem and then handsewing > > the hems. > > Yes, but do you help them with period patterns or use the "trace > around a dress shirt" method? Yes. It depends on the person (& I'm not very active right now) but anyone who comes to me with a costuming question gets an offer of me babysitting them through the garment...I'd much rather teach than make it myself for a fee and I never charge for teaching. > I show people a pile of swatches (someday I'll make a swatch > book) and give them ideas for acceptable substitutions. We tell > them where they can buy stuff cheap and occasionally schedule a > "safari" to the garment district. I usually use garb that's on hand as examples and have done a number of 'walk-throughs' at the fabric stores. Unfortunately the excellent remnant store we had (corduroy of the correct wale, fake fur & heavy cotton flannel for ~$1.50 a pound!) closed down (yes, I *still* have fabric left five years after!) so now I travel down to Fayetteville, TN to Sirs Fabric ($1.00/yd antique satin & $5.50/yd cotton velvet) which is a day trip (leave at 9 get back in the early afternoon). > I'll pass along the titles of good reference books, help with > patterns and patterning. This month we'll be holding a workshop > specifically for newcomers to get some costumes patterned or > have problems solved. BTDT! When our household was more active Mistress Nerak would have all day costuming workshops at her house. My favorite piece of her advice that I pass on is to never, ever, ever look at anything but the pictures when making a Medieval Miscellania pattern and to buy a roll of butcher paper to make your patterns on! > There is a definite learning curve, and we try to help them up > it as fast as is reasonable. Everyone will settle into a level > where they feel comfortable. That might not be as authentic as > I would like, but I'm not going to drum them out of the group. No, but I *do* mention the fact that the higher the natural fiber the more comfortable their clothing will be...since most of the folx I help can't afford much beyond cotton I point out that cotton will both keep them warm *and* cool because it breathes. I've had numerous folx astonished because I wear a number of heavy cotton flannel cotehardies & t-tunic dresses & overtunics which gives me an opportunity to hammer...I mean, point this out again. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 09:09:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28093 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:09:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA20519; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 07:18:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA21208 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 07:16:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmx07.globecomm.net (rmx07.iname.net [165.251.8.75]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA21203 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 07:16:18 -0700 (MST) From: sue-historian@writeme.com Received: from weba3.iname.net by rmx07.globecomm.net (8.9.1/8.8.0) with ESMTP id JAA14342 ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:16:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (from root@localhost) by weba3.iname.net (8.9.1a/8.9.2.Alpha2) id JAA00348; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:16:17 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <9901070916173I.23662@weba3.iname.net> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:16:17 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Stays, skeletons and girdles Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: sue-historian@writeme.com Dora Barnes (dare I say the young Dora ?) wrote about the reasons for 1950s firm control lingerie being more than shape - she mentioned >" support, posture and the indefinable - "it was good for you" This strikes a chord in my own memories. Can Dora or anyone else expand on these non shape values ? Sue ---------------------------------------------------------------- Get your free email from AltaVista at http://altavista.iname.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 09:15:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28115 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:15:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA21111; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 07:25:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA21875 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 07:23:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA21870 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 07:23:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a18.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.146]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA11598 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:23:08 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3694C347.F46BBBE5@nash.tds.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 08:23:04 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays References: <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> <4.1.19990106232920.00b96100@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > I have real trouble believing actual 15" waists. There is a lot > of in-period talking about this, and even stories about women > who supposedly had them. I remain unconvinced. My Sweetie has > a neck bigger than 15". I have understood it for some time having spent my youth roaming through historical houses & looking at the clothing (among other things...my dad is a historian so we would get toooons of info about who lived in the house...hmmm, wonder if he can find the time to do the same with our kids?). I'm 5'8" but even when I was shorter it was pretty obvious that the women were much, much shorter than I am. Remember that nutrition wasn't all that hot back in the good 'ole days and while some women had real female figures (my dh looooves Rubanesque! ) a number of them did not. Think how small a supermodal's waist must be and then factor down for the fact that most modals are considered tall for today's standards as opposed to the norms of yesteryear. When you get a chance to actually look at clothing from earlier periods it's amazing how much smaller they are...even just looking in a vintage clothing store will show you...I've seen stuff that *might* fit my daughter width-wise and she's only five! Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 10:18:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28406 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:18:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA26718; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:26:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA29652 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:23:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA29643 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:23:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from 132.198.103.242 (132.198.103.242) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.DB273D30@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:24:06 -0800 Message-ID: <3694D190.57CC@uvm.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 10:24:07 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hope Greenberg Robin Netherton wrote: > It > should be noted that in the original text of the song Greensleeves, the > lady is not definitively a prostitute, because she never grants her favors > to the singer (despite his many gifts to her). The song can be easily > (maybe more easily) read as lampooning a foolish man who thinks he can buy > a lady's love, and who doesn't know how to take "no" for an answer. I wouldn't even go that far. Pick up any collection of 16th century madrigals, canzonets, or balettes, choose one at random, and the chances are you'll be reading one filled with the sighings and dyings of unrequited love. It was a long-standing tradition. > Rollins documents a slew of "response" ballads on Greensleeves that came > out in 1580, . . . "Greene Sleves moralised to the > Scripture Declaring the manifold benefites and blessinges of God bestowed > on sinfull manne." Ah! Now that would be fun to read. I'd guess that text has nothing to do with the morals of the lady subject at all. What I find interesting about Greensleeves is how this particular ditty, of all the wonderful things out there, became so enduringly popular. And where in the world did the notion that this is about a prostitute come from? Researching that tradition would probably be more fun than the song itself. Mary Magdalen is often, but not always, pictured in green (and carrying that neat little jar and usually wearing interesting headgear) but so are several of the women saints so I don't think that helps. By the way, a quick web search turned up this as one of the verses: My men were clothed all in green, And they did ever wait on thee; All this was gallant to be seen, And yet thou wouldst not love me. A charming idea, clothing your men in your lady's color as a token of devotion. Wait...I can see it now...that REALLY means this guy had a ring of pimps and... Sorry! :-) - Hope ------------- hope.greenberg@uvm.edu, U of Vermont, http://www.uvm.edu/~hag _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 10:57:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28709 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:57:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA01168; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:05:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA10289 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:02:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA10272 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:02:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from 132.198.103.242 (132.198.103.242) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.4C637B80@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:03:04 -0800 Message-ID: <3694DAB2.43DD@uvm.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 11:03:08 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: field trip report and color question References: <000201be39f8$3363be40$2d3daccf@s0peladn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hope Greenberg If you plan to be in New York before Jan. 17th and haven't already been there, don't bother with the costume exhibit at the Metropolitan Museum of Art--go straight to the exhibit on early Netherlands painting. What feasts for the eyes and a goldmine for the costumer! The Met has collected over 140 paintings and sculptures from the period 1420-1550 and has them all on display at this exhibit. The colors are breathtaking, the artists' attention to detail particularly gratifying from a costumers point of view, and the fact that you can get right up close is perhaps the most amazing thing of all. I saw one wooden sculture where a woman's bodice, though that portion was only about an inch in height, actually had the side seam carved in it. You can see some of the works at the museum's web site, http://www.metmuseum.org, and many are available on the standard print and online collections, but seeing them live was just wonderful. I was a bit disappointed in the catalog, so didn't buy it--it focused on the art and expression of the works instead of providing nice big color blow-ups of the costuming details--how dare they!! I do have two questions as a result. I want to make a houpellande (probably mid century northern, haven't decided on the exact style yet) and am wondering about the suitability of a piece of fabric I have. 1) It's antique satin but with a fine weave--no nubblies. Not linen, wool, or real silk, *sigh* though the black back makes it look rather like shot silk. Is it an acceptable substitute for the authenticity minded? 2) The color: it is between plum-purple-taupe-grey, very subdued. I saw several gowns in the above exhibit of the same or nearly the same color but I don't know if this is a paint-only color or if there would have been a dye color like this in the mid-15th century. Any ideas? Thanks, as always! - Hope ------------- hope.greenberg@uvm.edu, U of Vermont, http://www.uvm.edu/~hag _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 11:07:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28758 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:07:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA02796; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:17:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA13269 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:14:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA13252 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:14:53 -0700 (MST) From: Luiseach@aol.com Received: from Luiseach@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id KEVLa18627 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:14:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <646e2b53.3694dd56@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:14:14 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Small wardrobe, was Color associations Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Luiseach@aol.com In a message dated 01/07/99 04:02:55 AM, Lynn wrote: <> Pre-1600, the people sitting down at the fancy tables for dinner wouldn't have been taking down the pavillion and schlepping the gear half an hour before--they would have had servants to do the grunt work and get dusty and sweaty. Lucinda known in the SCA as Luighseach nic Lochlainn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 11:17:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28804 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:17:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA03917; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:27:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA14913 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:24:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA14906 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:24:32 -0700 (MST) From: EofAshley@aol.com Received: from EofAshley@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 9QRSa27801 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:23:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <95a725f8.3694df8c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:23:40 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: EofAshley@aol.com Kat: I have been dying to get to Sir's for the past year. Are their prices as good as they say? Sometimes, all it takes is gentle direction, as some newcomers to historic reenactment first go to fabric stores before they begin participation, and say to themselves, " THIS looks kinda period!" We've had many people after beginning garb classes say, "So THAT'S what it's supposed to look like!" Karla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 11:28:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28838 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:27:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA05067; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:37:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA16832 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:34:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA16788 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:34:30 -0700 (MST) From: EofAshley@aol.com Received: from EofAshley@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id HCHEa19764 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:33:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:33:26 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: H-COST: Small wardrobe, was Color associations Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: EofAshley@aol.com In our area of the World, it's Court that everyone is getting dressed up for, before feast, and fine clothing worn in the court of Royalty would, needless to say, have been appropriate. karla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 11:29:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28848 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:29:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA05271; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:39:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA17148 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:36:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from send104.yahoomail.com (send104.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.122]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id JAA17140 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:36:40 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990107163824.24953.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Received: from [163.231.230.197] by send104.yahoomail.com; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 08:38:24 PST Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:38:24 -0800 (PST) From: Jennifer McNitt Subject: H-COST: SCA-Garb To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jennifer McNitt What ever happened to the SCA-Garb mailing list? It seems that www.coollist.com is down (and I heard maybe for good). Has anyone setup a new list somewhere else? If not, I have an account at www.egroups.com and it could be hosted there. Jen == -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Jennifer McNitt Rosemount, MN E-mail: jenmcnitt@yahoo.com SCA: Gweniver Kenwyn of Roseveth -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 11:38:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28881 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:38:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA06167; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:47:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA18729 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:44:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id JAA18714 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:44:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from LISA [209.162.71.46] by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_00fc_3694_f380_5875; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 12:48:48 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990107084433.0095c220@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 08:45:10 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: H-COST: Fwd: Natural dyes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel Another question from a reader.... Any ideas? > >Hi,I'm trying to find a school or university with classes in the >lost artwork of natural dyes used for clothes,and to give color to >everything found in all textiles.Are there any resources to find a >school or an apprenticeship in this trade? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 11:47:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28931 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:47:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA07329; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:56:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA20357 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:54:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f206.hotmail.com [207.82.251.97]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id JAA20346 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 09:54:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 8785 invoked by uid 0); 7 Jan 1999 16:53:50 -0000 Message-ID: <19990107165350.8784.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 194.168.181.26 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 08:53:49 PST X-Originating-IP: [194.168.181.26] From: "Cornelia W" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Stays, skeletons, breasts and posture. Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 08:53:49 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Cornelia W" This is a fascinating and rambling topic - here's a few more rambles. Anne Foote mentioned in a post the 1920 bras. I had a great aunt, brought up in New York, who was a la mode in the 1920s. In the 60s she had a breast tumour removed, and claimed it was due to the tight binding she wore to get the flat look when young. In photos taken in the 1920s she appeared quite well build, but without any trace of a bust. I remember her talking about bandaging, not flattening bras. I don’t know if binding would produce tumours, but anyway, she freely admitted doing it. Do we have theater people or reenactors in this list who have tried to get the same look ? Several postings have contrasted posture and shape as an effect of stays. Of course, stays will change your posture - a solid wooden busk really does keep you upright. The 18C was looking for even and expected women to have flat and narrow backs. 18 C girls in middle and upper class homes not only had stays (from age 4 or so ?) but also backboards and other devices to help their little skeletons into the proper shape. Try looking at page 174 of the following (not easy navigate). It is a 1825? Dancing instruction book, with a lot of emphasis on posture. http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/dihome.html Go to "search", then keyword search on "backboard" -and look at page 174. I think it's not a standard html document so you can't point to it from here. Does anyone know what the "steel collars" are mentioned as giving a too stiff a carriage on page 191 In her autobiography "Period Piece" Gwen Raverat tells when she was aged 13 in the 1880s she was made to wear stays, fond them uncomfortable and took them off. She adds "when my softshelled condition was discovered I was forcibly recorsetted." They must have uncomfortable, poor girl. By the time she was say 20, the 8 years in stays must have had some effect on her body, bones and mental outlook. Cornelia ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 12:04:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28992 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:04:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA09105; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:13:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA23252 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:10:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA23229 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:10:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from Station1.tecoma.mccc.edu (th119-1.mccc.edu [207.8.248.196]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.9.1a/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA12884 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:10:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36951480.2E67@mccc.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 12:09:36 -0800 From: Kate Pinner Organization: MCCC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: London 'Cloth of Gold' References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kate Pinner Just got back from a week in London -- The British Museum has an exhibit of modern "Cloth of Gold". Seems someone in India is reviving the classical skill and artistry. They have shawls, panels and sashes that are absolutely gorgeous!!! Silk and silver gilt. And to think that one could actually buy these now (if one had tons of money!). Some of the pieces have magnifying glasses so you can see the stitches. They are shown with some of the Indian paintings so you can see how they might be used. Wish I could have stayed longer & seen more. The V&A has QEWardrobe at 75 pounds but you have to ask at the desk, it's not out on the shelves. I wish they would set up their costume displays with mirrors -- although it's great they show the backs of some of the clothes, I also want to see the front (and vice versa). At the National Gallery, I picked up a small book on Costume in Art. Haven't had time to really pore over it but am looking forward to that this weekend. Kate > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 12:04:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28996 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:04:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA09287; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:14:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA23407 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:11:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA23401 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:11:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a18.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.146]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA14529 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:10:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3694EA85.41E9DC9D@nash.tds.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 11:10:29 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule References: <95a725f8.3694df8c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat EofAshley@aol.com wrote: > > Kat: > > I have been dying to get to Sir's for the past year. Are their > prices as good as they say? I think so...I pay $1/yd for antique satin and the most *I've* paid for fabric is $3/yd there (but most of my costuming now is for theatrical purposes and so I'm not buying some of the upper end fabrics one might use for court garb. Some of the antique satin has slub on both sides as opposed to having a shiny side. I've seen light silk every time I've been in for ~$10.50/yd which are generally in cream and light colors. They have broadcloth, in dull colors for the most part, for $0.50/yd (I buy a lot of this!). There are actually two stores...one is nothing but upholstery which also has foam and fake fur (don't know why it's in that store but...). The other has upholstery fabric as well as the more usual fabric one finds in a regular store. It also has a bridal section, a button bin where I've found good pewter buttons every visit but I'm not as impressed with the trim section and they don't have the very heavy cotton flannel that I like. They have a lot of mill ends so what you encounter varies from visit to visit although some things are 'normal' such as the cotton velvet (yum...I need more money!). My suggestion would be to carpool with others who are interested in buying fabric (we take a van or station wagon), go early in the morning and explore. > Sometimes, all it takes is gentle direction, as some newcomers > to historic reenactment first go to fabric stores before they > begin participation, and say to themselves, " THIS looks kinda > period!" We've had many people after beginning garb classes > say, "So THAT'S what it's supposed to look like!" LOL! It may be easier depending on which fabric store you go to. The one I frequent most has workers who all know me well and I've educated them as I buy fabric...which means I've also overheard them giving other customers the same information I've passed to them...and been accosted by a worker wondering if I can answer a question for another customer! During the halloween period I had 'chance' conversations about costumes every time I went in the store! Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 12:18:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29062 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:18:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA10881; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:27:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA25576 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:25:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA25570 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:25:15 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id AMXFa03538 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:23:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:23:46 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Jerkin/doublet (was:Shakespeare In Love) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 1/6/99 7:57:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << It's possible that the jerkin was a less structured, more loosely fitted garment than the doublet. >> Interesting.....and feasible considering a jerkin goes over the doublet. And just to complicate things further, some jerkins are made to match the doublet [these are usually sleeveless] with same fabric & trim. In some portraits you can hardly tell there's a jerkin at all.....the only clues being two sets of tabs at the waist & armseye & if left unbuttoned [also probably more the case with these matching jerkins] the 2 sets of buttons & holes. I believe in Janet Arnold there is a silk brocade jerkin that is too narrow to button up...the buttons & holes being purely decorative. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 12:46:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29389 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:46:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA15251; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:53:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA02668 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:50:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA02637 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:50:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from Station1.tecoma.mccc.edu (th119-1.mccc.edu [207.8.248.196]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.9.1a/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA13830 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:50:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36951DE4.3834@mccc.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 12:49:40 -0800 From: Kate Pinner Organization: MCCC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Study of historic textiles ! References: <199812261851_MC2-64C9-9FE2@compuserve.com> <4.1.19981227060253.00a93c30@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kate Pinner Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > Also some fire detection equipment might be sensitive to flash. And since fabric and paper are light sensitive, the galeries are kept at low light levels; if flashes go off they annoy the other visitors and could also make the guards think that someone is trying to divert attention. Kate (who worked in a museum for ten years) > >odd question: is this photo-phobia of museums more of a commercial > >interest or are certain items particularly sensitive to photo flash? > > Sensitive to photo flash. Same reason some keep their museums so dark you > can't take your own pictures. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 12:46:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29393 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:46:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA15428; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:54:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA29855 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:39:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu (tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA29207 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:38:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from Station1.tecoma.mccc.edu (th119-1.mccc.edu [207.8.248.196]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.9.1a/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA13567 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:37:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36951AFF.4F41@mccc.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 12:37:19 -0800 From: Kate Pinner Organization: MCCC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Time Period Question References: <000c01be31a7$d2a9dec0$8aa06480@dsc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kate Pinner Dumb question time. This morning's paper announced that a local Lion's club will be sponsoring a Ren Faire this spring with a local SCA group who dress in medieval costume. What's medieval and what's Rennaisance? When does one stop and the other begin? I know that it depends on the country, but are there any specific signs or dates? Kate _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 12:59:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29458 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:59:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA16882; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:08:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA05266 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:06:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA05245 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:06:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25926 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:05:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3694F7A0.3E75D7D9@serv.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 10:06:25 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA-Garb References: <19990107163824.24953.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True There have been server problems I understand, but the list is alive and well. I received several posts from the list this morning. Cynthia > What ever happened to the SCA-Garb mailing list? It seems that > www.coollist.com is down (and I heard maybe for good). Has anyone > setup a new list somewhere else? If not, I have an account at > www.egroups.com and it could be hosted there. -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 13:07:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29568 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:07:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA18433; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:16:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA06717 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:14:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA06670 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:14:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25983 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:14:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3694F98A.1DC34BA3@serv.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 10:14:35 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: I'm crazy References: <199901070721.XAA09062@smtp.pacifier.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > As one of the people who will be on the judging panel for the contest > she's talking about, I promise not to eat her. I promise not to let > the other judges eat her. I've never bitten anyone in the 13 years > I've been judging this contest and I don't plan on starting now. Hmmmmm, don't think that was my fear, but maybe deeeeeeep down.Actually, my fear is that I'm rushing things. But I feel better today. > have an "overall" winner), but you all can cross your fingers for > her! Oh yes please do. I received two posts this morning that absolutely almost brought me to tears of happiness and a *blush*. This was one of them. You honor me with your kind words, Mistress. Till Saturday then, Cynthia -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 13:22:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29695 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:22:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA20414; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:31:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA09392 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:29:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA09365 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from clough (207-172-59-230.s261.tnt13.brd.erols.com [207.172.59.230]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA04404 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:29:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:29:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901071829.NAA04404@smtp3.erols.com> X-Sender: clough@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda and Larry Clough Subject: Re: H-COST: Fwd: Natural dyes Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough At 08:45 AM 1/7/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Lisa Scovel > >Another question from a reader.... Any ideas? >> >>Hi,I'm trying to find a school or university with classes in the >>lost artwork of natural dyes used for clothes,and to give color to >>everything found in all textiles.Are there any resources to find a >>school or an apprenticeship in this trade? > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > I am told that the University of Texas in Austin does a lot of dyeing work, in conjunction with the theater department. (I know this because somebody there offered to get an entire batch of fabric dyed for a charity project, in the department's dyeing facility.) Regards, Brenda -- Brenda Clough, author of HOW LIKE A GOD, a science fiction novel from Tor Books _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 13:59:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA30354 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:59:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA24265; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:04:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA15050 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:02:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA15030 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:02:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.out) with ESMTP id LAA09527 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:00:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36950228.CA5F7EA@best.com> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 10:51:20 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays References: <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> <4.1.19990106232920.00b96100@pop.slip.net> <3694C347.F46BBBE5@nash.tds.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press Kent & Kat wrote: > -Poster: Kent & Kat > > Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > > I have real trouble believing actual 15" waists. There is a lot > > of in-period talking about this, and even stories about women > > who supposedly had them. I remain unconvinced. My Sweetie has > > a neck bigger than 15". > > I have understood it for some time having spent my youth > roaming through historical houses & looking at the clothing > (among other things...my dad is a historian so we would get > toooons of info about who lived in the house...hmmm, wonder > if he can find the time to do the same with our kids?). I'm > 5'8" but even when I was shorter it was pretty obvious that > the women were much, much shorter than I am. Remember that > nutrition wasn't all that hot back in the good 'ole days and > while some women had real female figures (my dh looooves > Rubanesque! ) a number of them did not. Think how > small a supermodal's waist must be and then factor down for > the fact that most modals are considered tall for today's > standards as opposed to the norms of yesteryear. When you > get a chance to actually look at clothing from earlier > periods it's amazing how much smaller they are...even just > looking in a vintage clothing store will show you...I've > seen stuff that *might* fit my daughter width-wise and she's > only five! > > Kat > There are plenty of short women around in the 1990s. It's not entirely due to nutrition; it's also heredity. I'm 4'9" and I grew up with normal middle-class nutrition. But my parents are short, my brother is short, my grandparents were short, and most of my aunts, uncles and cousins are short. Anyway, I'm about as short as an adult can get within the bounds of medical "norms." Not that it's uncommon in San Francisco, which has a large Oriental population (I'm not Oriental though). I eat wholesome food, get lots of exercise, am in great health, and am within my normal weight range according to the charts. There is _no way_ I, as an adult, could have a 15" waist. At least not without serious corseting. I don't really remember my measurements as a teenager, but I think that by the time I was 16 or 17 I had pretty much my adult figure. The closest I know anyone to have come to a 15" waist is a slightly taller acquaintance who claims to be an ex-model and also claims to have a 21" waist, which she tells everyone as soon as she meets them and often thereafter. She looks pretty gaunt, so I'd say her hobby is certainly dieting. As far as I know she does not wear corsets. I think modern people are sometimes unaware the nuances of period teenage or younger clothing as compared to adult. Some of the clothes that look so small actually didn't belong to adults. Also, of course, devices such as hoops and bustles, plus garments that look wide at the shoulders, can dramatically narrow the waist visually without changing the actual measurements. Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 14:00:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30420 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:00:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA24980; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:09:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA15997 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:07:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA15986 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:07:21 -0700 (MST) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DYDQYTEX; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 14:06:57 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:45:46 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: Stays, skeletons and girdles Message-ID: <19990107.125415.25342.21.seamstrix@juno.com> References: <19990107124115.7134.rocketmail@send204.yahoomail.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-11 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com I wear an Elizabethan corset for long periods of time during the summer and while I haven't seen any lasting physical changes, I have noticed some 'deportment' changes. I find it very easy to maintain 'perfect posture' after I have been wearing my corset (when you can't bend your thorasic vertabrae or slouch, your body gets used to not doing it). I also tend to perch on the edge of the chair (with the bum roll it is difficult to sit back in many chairs) and have a mild tendency to balk at going thru openings where my farthingale wouldn't fit until I remind my self that I'm not wearing it. Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 14:07:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30544 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:07:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA26005; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:16:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA17061 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:14:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from fw2.roguewave.com (firewall-user@fw2.roguewave.com [208.151.233.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA17028 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:14:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by fw2.roguewave.com; id LAA04858; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:09:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com(10.68.4.36) via SMTP by net.indra.com, id smtpd004846; Thu Jan 7 11:09:40 1999 Received: by cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:14:38 -0800 Message-ID: From: Betsy Perry To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:14:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Betsy Perry The sizes of vintage humans and the sizes of vintage clothes are related, but not identical. As has been pointed out on this list before, large clothes can be remade to fit another, possibly smaller, wearer, and so on until they wear out. Small clothes are harder to reuse, and therefore have a slightly higher chance of surviving. For related reasons, some periods' clothes are very rare: the pattern lines lent themselves to remaking, and people took advantage of this. (See Janet Arnold's comments on the rarity of the 1866-1867 stone satin dress in Patterns of Fashion.) There's a lot of good research that persuades me that human stature has indeed been increasing over the centuries. I would be less certain if surviving clothing were the only marker. --- Elizabeth Hanes Perry Rogue Wave Software _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 14:17:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30726 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:17:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA27010; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:26:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA18480 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA18465 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:23:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA21581 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:15:45 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:15:42 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <36950228.CA5F7EA@best.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad Re 15" waists, anyone know how small Vampira's waist was in her corset? It looked like about 15" to me. For that matter, anyone old enough besides me to remember Vampira? Sylvia R _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 14:32:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30963 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:32:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA28992; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:42:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA20831 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:39:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA20820 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:39:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 11:39:30 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <36950228.CA5F7EA@best.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:43:45 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > >Re 15" waists, anyone know how small Vampira's waist was in her corset? >It looked like about 15" to me. For that matter, anyone old enough >besides me to remember Vampira? >Sylvia R > I remember her froom "Plan 9 From Outer Space" and yes, she had a tiny waist, but smaller than my husband's neck?? Well, maybe. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 15:07:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA31545 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:07:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA02495; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:16:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA25904 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:14:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from falcon.canfield.com (root@falcon.canfield.com [206.191.139.20]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA25892 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:14:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from Leslie (u6-12.wa.net [206.191.135.76]) by falcon.canfield.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA32642 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:22:27 -0800 Message-Id: <199901072022.MAA32642@falcon.canfield.com> X-Sender: leslieh@mail.canfield.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 12:06:18 -0800 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Leslie Helms Subject: H-COST: SCA garb list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Leslie Helms The SCA garb list is alive and well. Several of us are on both lists, and the SCA list does provide a little more leeway for discussing society-specific topics. When I'm suggesting a list to a new enthusiast, I usually recommend joining sca-garb first until they get their bearings. I don't know why http://www.coollist.com wouldn't be working. Keep trying. Leslie/Larisa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 15:27:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA31886 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:27:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA05042; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:36:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA00446 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:34:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA00417 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:34:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p28.directcon.net [206.170.184.77]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA17982 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:30:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:30:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901072030.MAA17982@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson I wouldn't try to slash velvet. If >you want slashed sleeves use a good felted wool. It won't ravel and velvet will >ravel like crazy if you slash and not finish off the edges. I've had no problem at all with slashing velvet, as long as the slashes are on the bias--but that's necessary for any woven fabric unless it's a heavily fulled wool. If you look at period garmets, the edges are supposed to look ravelly, just not fall apart. By the early 17th century, there are examples of brocades woven with fake slashes, complete with ravelled edges. I usually cut slashes with an Exacto knife. Some people swear by rotary cutters. The other day I was at a specialty quilting and sewing store and they had a tool called a "slash cutter"! which looked somewhat like a rotary cutter. Unfortunately my kids started acting up and I found it needful to get out FAST! I'll go back without them on Saturday, if it seems to be a useful gizmo I'll let you all know. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 15:41:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA32191 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:41:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA06341; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:50:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA02805 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:48:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA02797 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:48:06 -0700 (MST) From: Seton1355@aol.com Received: from Seton1355@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id UWMUa19751 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:47:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3824b004.36951d54@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:47:16 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: in the back of THREADS magzine Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 236 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Seton1355@aol.com Go out & buy an issue of THREADS magazine. (This can be gotten at most new stands or JoAnne's Fabrics or ClothWorld or the like) Anyway, in the back of the magazine are advertisments for such courses..... Phillipa In a message dated 1/7/99 11:45:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, reenactment.guide@miningco.com writes: > Hi,I'm trying to find a school or university with classes in the > >lost artwork of natural dyes _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 15:45:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA32267 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:45:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA06699; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:54:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA03446 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:52:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA03438 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:52:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p28.directcon.net [206.170.184.77]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA20059 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:48:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:48:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901072048.MAA20059@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Cavalier hats=Sources Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >"Yes, all my laurels you have riven away >and all my roses; yet in spite of you, >there is one crown I bear away with me, >and tonight, when I enter before God, >my salute shall sweep all the stars away >from the blue threshold! One thing without stain, >unspotted from the world, in spite of doom, >mine own! > >and that is.... my white plume!" > > ~~ Edmond Rostand's Cyrano de Bergerac This translation rather misses the point. The play is often performed in a translation which leaves the last word in French, and therefore leaves the word play intact: "My Panache!" Meaning, of course, his general air of style, dash, and flair. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 15:53:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA32355 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:53:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA07446; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:03:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA04862 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:00:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from dias.net (dias.net [199.170.176.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA04828 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:00:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ophelia@localhost) by dias.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA09700 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:08:36 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ophelia@dias.net) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:08:35 -0600 (CST) From: "Sara J. Davitt" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: looking for seamstress. In-Reply-To: <36940873.5FC37855@pacbell.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Sara J. Davitt" OK, I have a bishops cassock that I would like to have adapted into a jacket. Anyone up to the task?... I would supply the fabric, and the cassock, and how much would this cost? Thanks! (Please relpy Off-List) Sarahj _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 16:00:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA32483 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:00:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA07993; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:08:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA05801 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:06:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from rainey.blueneptune.com (root@rainey.blueneptune.com [209.133.45.253]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA05777 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:06:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from BlueNeptune.Com (ppp146.blueneptune.com [209.133.45.146]) by rainey.blueneptune.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA23225 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:06:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from BlackCat@BlueNeptune.Com) Message-ID: <3695218B.ED3F7E22@BlueNeptune.Com> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 13:05:15 -0800 From: "BlackCat =^..^=" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Time Period Question References: <000c01be31a7$d2a9dec0$8aa06480@dsc> <36951AFF.4F41@mccc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "BlackCat =^..^=" > Dumb question time. This morning's paper announced that a local Lion's > club will be sponsoring a Ren Faire this spring with a local SCA group > who dress in medieval costume. What's medieval and what's Rennaisance? > When does one stop and the other begin? I know that it depends on the > country, but are there any specific signs or dates? This is one that professional historians can't even agree on... Generally the beginning of the middle ages is agreed to be 476 AD when Romulus Augustulus was deposed as Emperor and the western Roman Empire fell into "barbarian" rule. The beginning of the Renaissance occurs in the second half of the 15th century. The eastern half of the Roman Empire fell in Constantinople was conquered in 1453 by the Turks. This forced the educated elite (among others) of Byzantium to flee back into the rest of Europe. They brought with them ideas and knowledge that had been forgotten in the 'barbaric' west. I prefer to see the Renaissance as a gradual event that traveled across Europe like the ripple from a pebble thrown in a pond. Italy was the first to undergo the Renaissance, but it took decades for it's effects to fully filter through northern Europe. As to the end of the Renaissance, the Thirty Years War and the English Civil War seem to be good stopping points, although some historians stretch it as far as the 18th century. Hope this helps. --Chris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 16:08:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA32619 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:08:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA09119; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:15:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA07070 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:13:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA07039 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:13:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from CC1010062-A.avnl1.nj.home.com ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.0 201-221-107) with SMTP id <19990107211324.JQOX2583.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@CC1010062-A.avnl1.nj.home.com>; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:13:24 -0800 Message-ID: <022301be3a83$16e22a00$cb860318@CC1010062-A.avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: Cc: Subject: H-COST: Coming at the MET in NYC Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:17:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0220_01BE3A59.2DD9C760" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0220_01BE3A59.2DD9C760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Something of interest coming up at the Met in NYC: January 14, 1999 =97 March 28, 1999 The court of Ferrara, presided over by a series of Este = dukes in the 15th and 16th centuries, was one of the leading centers of Renaissance = art and learning. Dosso Dossi (ca. 1486/7=971542) was the greatest and most imaginative of = the city=92s 16th-century painters, and one of the most alluring of all north Italian painters = of the generation following Giorgione. This will be the first monographic exhibition = of his work and will include some 60 paintings carefully chosen to reflect the quality of = the artist=92s achievement. Principal artist to Dukes Alphonso I and Ercole II from 1514, Dosso = worked alongside Titian in the most important commission of the period, and developed a = singular style that was well attuned to the cultural ambitions of the court. Featuring = rarely lent masterpieces from collections in America and Europe =97 above all the = Borghese Gallery in Rome =97 the exhibition will offer a unique opportunity to experience = the full scope of Dosso=92s work, not seen since the end of Este rule in the late 16th century.=20 The exhibition is made possible in part by The Andrew W. = Mellon Foundation. The exhibition has been organized by The Metropolitan = Museum of Art, the Ministero per i Beni Culturali e Ambientali (Gallerie Nazionali di = Ferrara, Bologna e Modena), the Comune di Ferrara/Civiche Gallerie d=92Arte Moderna e = Contemporanea, and The J. Paul Getty Museum. The accompanying publication is made possible in part by = The Samuel H. Kress Foundation. Suz _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 16:13:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA32700 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:13:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA09753; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:22:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA08049 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:19:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA08037 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:19:51 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id RKLRa27801 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:18:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <67ed7ad1.369524a0@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:18:24 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Cavalier hats=Sources Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 226 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com Margo, I use the standard English translation, because as a costumer, I enjoy the reference to the "white plume" as being so important to Cyrano in his dying moments. I think the clothing statement it makes is appropriate to my own extremely personal views on costuming. After all, this is only my signature, not anything meant to convey an in-depth study of the work itself. However, I will mention, as long as you felt it necessary to bring it up, that the play is not merely sometimes performed with a French tag line, but it is a French work. Any English translation is only that, a translation. I've read it in the French and I'm familiar with the panache ending. I can quote most of this play from memory, as my father began reading it to me, in character, when I was only 7. If I sound extremely offended, it is because I am. I really don't get where that came from, and am wondering why you felt it necessary to be so publicly condescending. If you did not mean to offend, I do not wish to become embroiled in a series of flames, but I was really taken aback at your post, and am otherwise not having a great day. In a message dated 1/7/1999 12:52:39 Pacific Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << >"Yes, all my laurels you have riven away >and all my roses; yet in spite of you, >there is one crown I bear away with me, >and tonight, when I enter before God, >my salute shall sweep all the stars away >from the blue threshold! One thing without stain, >unspotted from the world, in spite of doom, >mine own! > >and that is.... my white plume!" > > ~~ Edmond Rostand's Cyrano de Bergerac This translation rather misses the point. The play is often performed in a translation which leaves the last word in French, and therefore leaves the word play intact: "My Panache!" Meaning, of course, his general air of style, dash, and flair. >> _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 16:14:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA32708 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:14:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA09931; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA08346 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:21:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA08337; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:21:36 -0700 (MST) From: ZBLGilbert@aol.com Received: from ZBLGilbert@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id AZJYa05501; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:20:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:20:55 EST To: owner-h-costume-digest@indra.com, h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: foundation garments Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ZBLGilbert@aol.com Sue says: <" support, posture and the indefinable - "it was >good for you" This strikes a chord in my own memories. Can Dora or anyone else expand on these non shape values ?>> My sense at the time was that women weren't supposed to "bounce." Firm foundation garments prevented that. In addition, as I recall, my girlfriends and I thought that the social popularity of panty girdles was due to the difficulty of hanky panky while wearing them. Zelda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 16:22:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00096 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:22:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA10878; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:31:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA09559 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:29:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA09550 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:29:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p28.directcon.net [206.170.184.77]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA24101 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:25:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:25:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901072125.NAA24101@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: RE: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >As has been pointed out on this list before, large clothes can be remade >to fit another, possibly smaller, wearer, and so on until they wear out. >Small clothes are harder to reuse, and therefore have a slightly higher >chance of surviving. there's also my sister's theory that many garments were bought for troussues (sp?), and worn by young slender women for a few months before they got pregnant, and never got their old figures back. Hence the number of very small surviving garments. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 16:23:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00103 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:23:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11003; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:32:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA09638 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:30:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA09632 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:30:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p28.directcon.net [206.170.184.77]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA24146 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:26:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:26:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901072126.NAA24146@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 12:15 PM 1/7/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > >Re 15" waists, anyone know how small Vampira's waist was in her corset? >It looked like about 15" to me. For that matter, anyone old enough >besides me to remember Vampira? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 16:29:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00198 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:29:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA12076; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:38:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA10751 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:36:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA10721 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:36:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p28.directcon.net [206.170.184.77]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA24851 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:32:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:32:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901072132.NAA24851@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson > >Re 15" waists, anyone know how small Vampira's waist was in her corset? >It looked like about 15" to me. For that matter, anyone old enough >besides me to remember Vampira? I remember a Vampira comic book character, but I assume you're talking about a live person? I found myself watching a fitness arobics competition the other night, and I noticed that every single one of those incredibly toned women had what I would consider to be a figure flaw. Their torsos were almost completely tubular, i.e, there was no indentation at the waist at all. I don't know if this is from lack of fat on the hips or overdeveloped muscles in the waist area, but it looks strange to me. If I were visited by the Body Fairy, that wouldn't be the one I'd ask for. (I'd ask for the body of a belly dancer in a book I have). Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 16:34:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00285 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:34:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA12562; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:43:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA11461 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:41:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA11437 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:41:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA10341 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:41:34 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:41:34 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <199901072132.NAA24851@zeus.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > >Re 15" waists, anyone know how small Vampira's waist was in her corset? > >It looked like about 15" to me. For that matter, anyone old enough > >besides me to remember Vampira? > > I remember a Vampira comic book character, but I assume you're talking about > a live person? I remember Vampira, she was in Ed Wood's classic bomb "Plan 9 From Outer Space". I remember (vaguely) seeing somewhere what her waist measurement was, but I don't recall what it was or where I saw it. I'd check the L.I.S.A. page.... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 16:37:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00390 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:37:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA12920; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:46:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA11877 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:43:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA11869 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:43:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p28.directcon.net [206.170.184.77]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA25684 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:39:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:39:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901072139.NAA25684@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Cavalier hats=Sources Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson If you did not mean to offend, I do not wish to become >embroiled in a series of flames, but I was really taken aback at your post, >and am otherwise not having a great day. Obviously. I did not intend to attack you in any way, simply to share with the rest of the list what I consider to be an excellent sartorial play of words. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 17:21:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01123 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:21:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA18770; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:30:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA20906 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:24:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from hil-img-4.compuserve.com (hil-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.177.134]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA20522 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by hil-img-4.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id RAA15475 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:23:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:23:13 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Natural dyes To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901071723_MC2-65DC-3531@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id RAA01123 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson Have you tried the natural dye list, some people on it run classes I think Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 17:27:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01204 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:27:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA19247; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:34:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA22290 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA22258 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:31:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.113]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id OAA05487; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:31:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id OAA20622; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:31:50 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAstd8mOSRCR163YTiBSq/2QmGAusCFDz5qkdP7mtSEIo4XE67byP8WEaj From: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:31:49 -0700 (MST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA-Garb Message-ID: <14643-369535D5-2088@mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: Jennifer McNitt 's message of Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:38:24 -0800 (PST) Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) I'm subscribed to the SCA-garb list and it is still active. Current thread is adapting mundane patterns for period use. Starsinger _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 17:41:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01436 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:41:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA21359; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:50:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA24199 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:42:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from m16.boston.juno.com (m16.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.192]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA24127 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:41:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m16.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DYD48WZE; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 17:41:05 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Message-ID: <19990107.142600.4783.0.cley@juno.com> References: <199901072132.NAA24851@zeus.directcon.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-8,10-35 From: cley@juno.com (cynthia j ley) Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 17:41:05 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: cley@juno.com (cynthia j ley) Trained singers have the same issue. Our torsos belong on football players. The floating ribs spread permantantly with practice and time, the torso muscles themselves get larger and stronger. As the saying goes, you can annoy a singer by punching them in the stomach, but you'ld probably *hurt* your hand. ;-) Arlys On Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:32:26 -0800 (PST) Margo Anderson writes: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson >I found myself watching a fitness arobics competition the other night, and I >noticed that every single one of those incredibly toned women had what I >would consider to be a figure flaw. Their torsos were almost completely >tubular, i.e, there was no indentation at the waist at all. I don't know if >this is from lack of fat on the hips or overdeveloped muscles in the waist >area, but it looks strange to me. If I were visited by the Body Fairy, that >wouldn't be the one I'd ask for. (I'd ask for the body of a belly dancer in >a book I have). > >Margo > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 17:42:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01443 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:42:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA21450; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:51:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA25191 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:48:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA25183 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:48:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA23686 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:49:00 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:49:00 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: vintage bra (was stays, skeletons, etc.) In-Reply-To: <19990107.125415.25342.21.seamstrix@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> While we're on an underwear thread, I was wondering if y'all could help me date a vintage bra my mother got in a lot of stuff at an auction. It seems to fit me, so I can give you an idea of the shape it gives. It's pale pink satin, with straps that seem unusually long to me, and it flattens, but not completely. As far as actual construction, (I'm working from memory here, so I may make some slight mistakes) it is a band of satin about four inches wide, with a small dart taken beneath each breast. As I said, the straps seem extremely long, leaving the bust line lower than modern bras do. It closes in back with three hooks and eyes. There is lace inset at the top. If anyone can help, I can give more details when I get home and have it sitting in front of me. Thanks Emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 17:57:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01670 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:57:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA23167; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:06:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA27654 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:04:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (artemis.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA27632 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:04:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc (ppp28.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.148]) by artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA06752 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:05:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003201be3a92$70937220$94a06480@dsc> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: Medieval/Renaissance Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:07:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! A few more thoughts on what is "medieval" and what is "Renaissance," from an historical point of view: Generally, historians equate the spread of the "Renaissance" (quotation marks because it wasn't a society-wide phenomenom) to the spread of humanism. Some hallmarks of humanism were interest in classical antiquity and its literature and artifacts, interest in vernacular languages and history or glorification of a particular locale (sometimes termed "civic humanism"), and critical research into texts. Italian humanism had a more secular feel than Northern humanism, but both espoused the same methods. In Italy, humanism traditionally is seen as having its roots in the middle of the fourteenth century, and Petrarch as its first proponent. The movement gained momentum through patronage of humanist scholars in various Italian city-states, and interest in the classical languages, particularly Greek, was helped by the influx of Greek scholars fleeing the tottering Byzantine Empire. The movement spread from there. By the end of the fifteenth century, there were humanist scholars in France, Germany, and the Low Countries, with England joining in during the reign of Henry VIII (although there were inroads before that time). The Renaissance is a classic transitional period in which there is no clear break with the past, but elements of both medieval and modern coexisting within the same society. Some historians with a political or military focus prefer to talk about the "early modern" period, which in England starts around 1485 or so. As far as clothing goes, "Renaissance" usually refers to the clothing worn by the people in the eras I've mentioned above. "Italian Ren" usually means fifteenth and sixteenth century Italian; "English Renaissance" is usually Tudor or Elizabethan. Hope that helps.... Susan Carroll-Clark _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 18:51:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02491 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:51:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA28571; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:00:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA06537 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:57:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id QAA06530 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:57:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from LISA [209.162.71.46] by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_00fc_3695_58fe_1570; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 20:01:50 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990107153012.009198e0@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 15:57:56 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <36950228.CA5F7EA@best.com> References: <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> <4.1.19990106232920.00b96100@pop.slip.net> <3694C347.F46BBBE5@nash.tds.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel I really think it depends on how you're built. I come from a line of very small-waisted women, so in my early twenties, at 5'7" and 150 pounds I had a 22"waist, naturally. Pretty tough to find clothes, I tell you, with 40" inch hips and that small of a waist. I was not gaunt, by any means, I am just long-waisted, I guess, with quite a bit of space between the bottom of my ribs and my hips. I never tried corseting, but I've heard it was common to corset 3-5 inches off one's waist, yes? It's not at all hard for me to imagine someone with my build at 5'0 and 100 lbs having a 15" waist, at least if it were corseted. If I my New Year's resolution pans out and I get my waist again, I'll buy a corset and be the h-costume guinea pig, I promise! >I eat wholesome food, get lots of exercise, am in great health, and am >within my normal weight range according to the charts. There is _no >way_ I, as an adult, could have a 15" waist. At least not without >serious corseting. I don't really remember my measurements as a >teenager, but I think that by the time I was 16 or 17 I had pretty much >my adult figure. The closest I know anyone to have come to a 15" waist >is a slightly taller acquaintance who claims to be an ex-model and also >claims to have a 21" waist, which she tells everyone as soon as she >meets them and often thereafter. She looks pretty gaunt, so I'd say her >hobby is certainly dieting. As far as I know she does not wear corsets. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 18:54:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02504 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:54:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA28905; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:03:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA07099 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:01:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (tor-smtp1.netcom.ca [207.181.101.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA07064 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:01:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (trt-on12-25.netcom.ca [207.181.84.89]) by tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA14258 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:00:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <008001be3a9a$ae83cb40$5954b5cf@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Jerkin/doublet (was:Shakespeare In Love) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:06:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" [these are usually sleeveless] with same fabric & trim. In some portraits you >can hardly tell there's a jerkin at all.....the only clues being two sets of >tabs at the waist & armseye & if left unbuttoned [also probably more the case >with these matching jerkins] the 2 sets of buttons & holes. I believe in Janet >Arnold there is a silk brocade jerkin that is too narrow to button up...the >buttons & holes being purely decorative. Yes - the green silk brocatelle one. Representative of a early 17th century fashion of purposely unbuttoned (unbraced?) jerkins. There's a wonderful little portrait in Patterns of Fashion showing a similar arrangement - Henry, Prince of Wales with his jerkin unbuttoned. Eve Harris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 18:57:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02577 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:57:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA29279; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:06:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA07510 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:04:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from send103.yahoomail.com (send103.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.92]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id RAA07490 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:04:10 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990108000542.2655.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Received: from [153.35.254.105] by send103.yahoomail.com; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 16:05:42 PST Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:05:42 -0800 (PST) From: "Kristen M. Sieber" Subject: H-COST: Sneed pattern To: Historic Costume , Historic Needlework MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" Does anybody have, or know where I can get, a crochet snood pattern? Kristen M. Sieber lady_gawain@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 19:03:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA02667 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:03:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA29965; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:13:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA09092 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:10:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id RAA09010 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:10:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from LISA [209.162.71.46] by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_00fc_3695_5bfb_2396; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 20:14:35 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990107160945.00974430@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 16:10:52 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990107153012.009198e0@mail.tmsonline.com> References: <36950228.CA5F7EA@best.com> <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> <4.1.19990106232920.00b96100@pop.slip.net> <3694C347.F46BBBE5@nash.tds.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel Found this on the Web: A compelling question is of course, how tightly were the corsets laced? There are many reports of waists between 18 and 14 inches - even 12 inch waists are mentioned. [Steele, p. 163] However, it is believed that most accounts of these very small waists represent fantasies. Measurements of corsets in museum collections indicate that most corsets of the period 1860 to 1910 measured from 20 to 22 inches. Furthermore, those sizes do not indicate how tightly the corsets were laced. They could easily have been laced out by several inches, and probably were, because it was prestigious to buy small corsets. So ordinary corsets were not so tight after all, and contrary to common belief, the construction of the corset with the metal busk for front closure and the lacing in the back, enabled the bearer to lace herself in. She did not need a maid or husband to help her. Severe tight-lacing was practiced, and some corsetieres specialized in cultivating very small waists. Some men developed a fetish for small waists, a fetish which was regarded as quite acceptable. Small waists and the corset probably played about the same role as full breasts and the Wonderbra play today. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 19:11:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA02813 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:11:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA00900; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:21:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA11430 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:18:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA11384 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:18:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA27172 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:18:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36954EF3.4D8F4852@serv.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 16:19:00 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Sneed pattern References: <19990108000542.2655.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True http://crocheting.com/ Lots of free crochet patterns here. Cynthia Kristen M. Sieber wrote: > -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" > > Does anybody have, or know where I can get, a crochet snood pattern? > > Kristen M. Sieber > lady_gawain@yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 19:28:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA03045 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:28:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA02552; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:37:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA16200 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:35:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from send102.yahoomail.com (send102.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.90]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id RAA16148 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:35:00 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990108003615.181.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Received: from [153.35.254.105] by send102.yahoomail.com; Thu, 07 Jan 1999 16:36:15 PST Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:36:15 -0800 (PST) From: "Kristen M. Sieber" Subject: H-COST: SNOOD pattern To: Historic Costume , Historic Needlework MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" How embarassing, of course the subject line should have said SNOOD not SNEED. That's what I get for not proofreading! Kristen M. Sieber lady_gawain@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 19:29:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA03052 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:29:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA02694; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:38:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA16496 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:36:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA16480 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:36:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.173] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zyPuF-0001lb-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:36:04 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990107001814.00ba5920@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990107001814.00ba5920@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 00:26:52 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare/anachronisms In-Reply-To: <0ad601be3a15$3f8ecd00$1db51acb@wayne-s-pc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>Of course the doublet should be laced at the waist to the hose....no? This >>makes the "trunk hose and just a shirt" look very suspect to me. > >The hose that my husband wears in both 1525 and 1640 reenactment are both of >the type that tie to the doublet. However, that doesn't mean that they are >not worn without the doublet. With these types of hose, the ties are through >the waistband (which are not usually of the same material as the hose, BTW). >These waistbands tend to be tailored to fit the wearer, so are able to be >worn without the doublet without overly exposing oneself. There is quite >often a point tied across the front of the band as well, which can be seen >in the oft-quoted Arnold, Patterns of Fashion, to hold the front in. There are some woodcuts (German) by Jost Amman showing the back of the "pants unit" left unlaced from the "jacket unit" during strenuous movement (generic names used on purpose). This implies a certain level of fit, or this practice would impede movement not allow for it. If the "pants" didn't fit at least some on their own they'd fall down. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 19:32:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA03124 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:32:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA03178; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:41:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA12657 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:22:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA12589 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:22:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA25446 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:14:31 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:14:29 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad What's the L.I.S.A. page? On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Emma Elizabeth Lehman wrote: > > -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > > > > >Re 15" waists, anyone know how small Vampira's waist was in her corset? > > >It looked like about 15" to me. For that matter, anyone old enough > > >besides me to remember Vampira? > > > > I remember a Vampira comic book character, but I assume you're talking about > > a live person? > > I remember Vampira, she was in Ed Wood's classic bomb "Plan 9 From Outer > Space". I remember (vaguely) seeing somewhere what her waist measurement > was, but I don't recall what it was or where I saw it. I'd check the > L.I.S.A. page.... > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > Divinity Designs http://www.d-e-designs.com/divinity/ 515 Manhattan Drive, #203 sylvia@netherworld.com Boulder, CO 80303 USA complete catalog on website _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 19:43:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA03279 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:43:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA04355; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:53:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA18860 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:50:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.LCIA.COM (croombaptistchurch.org [207.30.138.60]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA18840 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:50:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from woodenporch.com ([209.26.68.81]) by mail2.LCIA.COM (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52462U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id COM for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:53:20 -0500 Message-ID: <36955625.672F4764@woodenporch.com> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 19:51:25 -0500 From: Lois X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare In Love References: <199901070721.XAA15483@smtp.pacifier.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lois kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > For a description of the layers worn in Elizabethan costuming, I > would suggest C. Willett Cunnington and Phillis Cunnington's book on > Clothing in the 16th Century. It's not available on any booksearches > for sale, but most of the better textile, costuming and drama > libraries usually have a copy. I got my copy done by the UofW from > their drama library (back in the days when they would copy whole out > of print books for scholarly use.) > > Kat You won't find Cunnington's book as Clothing in the 16th Century. The title is Handbook of English Costume in the 16th Century. That may be why you can not find it. Lois > > > Kat(June Russell) > kat@grendal.rain.com > Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Lois Mueller Wooden Porch Books books@woodenporch.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 20:27:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03955 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:27:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA08204; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:35:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA23483 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:33:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA23468 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:33:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.185] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zyQne-0004QQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:33:19 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990107171943.00b9b880@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990107171943.00b9b880@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 17:22:52 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: foundation garments In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >My sense at the time was that women weren't supposed to "bounce." Firm >foundation garments prevented that. In addition, as I recall, my girlfriends >and I thought that the social popularity of panty girdles was due to the >difficulty of hanky panky while wearing them. Women weren't supposed to bounce. Look up the phrase 'loose woman'. No corset can entirely prevent 'hanky panky'. Shakespeare In Love shows that pretty clearly. In my (somewhat limited) experience, most 'hanky panky' occours above the waist... Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 20:27:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03960 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:27:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA08180; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:35:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA23467 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:33:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA23457 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:33:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.185] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zyQnc-0004QQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:33:17 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990107165438.00b8c5e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 17:32:22 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? In-Reply-To: <3694C347.F46BBBE5@nash.tds.net> References: <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> <4.1.19990106232920.00b96100@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I own an 1898 bodice which is so small that the smaller of my daughters couldn't wear it after she was about 5 or 6 (I tried it on her once about then). The waist is about 22" measured by the waist band, hook to eye. And I have looked at the waist measurements of the garments in Nancy Bradfield's Costume In Detail, which go back to the 1700's. I believe 22"-teensy, I just don't believe 15"-teensy. If this were anything like common I would expect to encounter more teensy-waist antique garments in collections. I have seen none. Has anyone else on this list? (real question here, not rhetorical - I really want to know) BTW, the daughter in question is the one who had inherited the small bones my Mother has, not the big 'German' bones I have. I wanted to know when this one's uncorsetted waist would grow larger than 18", so I kept track of that measurement. By the time she was two it was 20". She is and always has been short and small. >> I have real trouble believing actual 15" waists. and When you >get a chance to actually look at clothing from earlier >periods it's amazing how much smaller they are...even just >looking in a vintage clothing store will show you...I've >seen stuff that *might* fit my daughter width-wise and she's >only five! Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 21:07:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA04614 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:07:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA11669; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:16:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA28109 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:14:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from ms1.dgsys.com (ms1.dgsys.com [204.97.64.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA28103 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:14:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from dgs.dgsys.com (robin@hme-dgs.dgsys.com [207.154.14.2]) by ms1.dgsys.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA03769 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:13:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by dgs.dgsys.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA28559 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:13:38 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: dgs.dgsys.com: robin owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:13:38 -0500 (EST) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990107165438.00b8c5e0@pop.slip.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > I believe 22"-teensy, I just don't believe 15"-teensy. If this were > anything like common I would expect to encounter more teensy-waist antique > garments in collections. I have seen none. Has anyone else on this list? I was under the impression that the contemporary references to things like 15" waists were actually referring to the *corset* size, which was measured in inches, and that a gap of as much as six inches could be left between the edges when the corset was worn. It would thus make sense for women to refer to their size as a "15-inch waist" the same way we talk about being a "size 12" or a "33 inseam" or whatever. Today, unfamiliar with this specialized use of "inch," we hear or read a quote saying "15-inch waist" and we automatically think of actual inch measurements around the waist. I wish I had a source for that, but it's something I read long ago and filed away in my mind as an interesting bit of trivia -- this is not my period of study. Perhaps someone else can confirm? I wonder if old Sears catalogs had sizing information :-) --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 21:30:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA04933 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:30:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA13595; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:38:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA00504 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:36:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA00494 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:36:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.113]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id SAA22115; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:36:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id SAA02289; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:36:03 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAubMEC9n6LUmO/qG6zvVEkElswmcCFCYp2bUeLvqeC9K+E1ZQ9kbkJpLw From: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:36:03 -0700 (MST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: SCA-Garb list Message-ID: <14656-36956F13-60@mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-Printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id VAA04933 Status: O -Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) The following is what I got when I joined the SCA-Garb List. I believe this is the list when I had problems of verifing my desire to join that forwarding the notice got me on. Hope this is of some help to those of you who are interested. If there are problems let me know and I'll forward your name and address to the list for joining. Starsinger Date:    Mon, Sep 28, 1998, 7:18pm (MST+3) To:    starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) From:    sca-garb@coollist.com Subject:    You have been subscribed Note: This is an automated Response Congratulations! You have been subscribed to the sca-garb list. To post to this list, just email your posting to "sca-garb@coollist.com" To unsubscribe from this list, just send a blank email to:       unsubscribe@coollist.com If you did not ask to be subscribed, please send this email to nospam@coollist.com If you encounter any problems at all, email support@coollist.com Thank you and Have fun! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 21:41:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05185 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:41:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA14540; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:50:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA01821 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:48:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from vail.telesensory.com ([12.7.233.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA01815 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:48:36 -0700 (MST) Received: by vail with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:49:20 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Vickers, Jill" To: "'h-costume'" Subject: H-COST: Resource Books Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:49:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Vickers, Jill" I'm interested in starting a historic costume reference library, but as a costuming newbie (although long-time sewer), I'm not sure what to start with. Could someone please tell me what the top five or so books are that are considered "must haves" (and hopefully currently in print!) for those just starting out? I am most interested in the general references that span several periods, as well as books specifically on the Elizabethan and Early Victorian periods. Thanks, -Jill _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 21:53:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05362 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:53:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA15536; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:03:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA02979 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:00:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA02972 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:00:54 -0700 (MST) From: Morghana@aol.com Received: from Morghana@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id GBYNa03539 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:55:57 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <27de08c5.369573bd@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:55:57 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #22 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Morghana@aol.com In a message dated 99-01-07 19:51:53 EST, writes: << - -Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) I'm subscribed to the SCA-garb list and it is still active. Current thread is adapting mundane patterns for period use. Starsinge >> So how does one get on this list? The web page (which I assume you must use to subscribe) has been down for days now...... I've checked at all hours and have never gotten through. Is there another way to subscribe beyond a web interface? ~Morghana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 21:57:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05442 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:57:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA15952; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:07:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA03359 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:04:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA03349 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:04:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo (port41.annex7.radix.net [207.226.55.41]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA02000 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 22:04:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.0.1.19990104205845.00e7a560@pop.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@pop.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 21:03:10 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: H-COST: wool allergies In-Reply-To: <199812281814.KAA23582@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kevin + Mara Riley My personal history with allergies is that I didn't have horrible allergies until we lived near a cotton field for a few years (when I was in 2nd/3rd grade) and got the overspray from the crop dusters. Now my allergies are horrible. Also, I find that I'm gluten intolerant and lactose intolerant -- but if I avoid wheat products, I can handle more milk products, so the gluten allergy exacerbates the milk allergy. Interesting, considering what a very small part of the diet wheat was in the Scottish Highlands. (They ate more barley, and LOTS of milk products.) Likewise, many people on the Sheltie listserv find that their dogs' skin and sometimes behavior problems go away when they put the dog on a wheat- and corn-free diet. (Wheat and corn are the most commonly used fillers in dog food.) I think many of us are allergic because of overexposure to chemicals. I wish there were some serious attention to this problem ... Mara At 10:14 AM 12/28/1998 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > > >>In my case, touching wool is rather like pouring acid on my hands, which >>inflame instantly on contact. Fortunately, thoroughly rinsing the >>affected area seems to take care of it. It doesn't seem to matter if the >>wool is very fine or very coarse, or in between. Sounds silly, but I >>think this problem developed after a particularly bad case of some Asian >>flu virus a number of years ago; before that, I could wear wool with >>impunity! >> >>Now this is fascinating! I've just been reading Michael Oldstone's >Viruses, Plagues, and History. One of the intresting points is that >influenza viruses usually originate in animals and cross over to humans. >(The Spanish Influenza that killed millions at the end of WWI has been >traced to a pig farm, for example). I wonder if the virus you had >originated in sheep? > >Margo > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > Kevin + Mara Riley Home Page http://www.radix.net/~lindo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 22:17:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05751 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 22:17:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA17934; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:27:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA05644 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:25:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA05630 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:24:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id NAA16405 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:54:54 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA24269; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:54:54 +1030 Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:54:53 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990107165438.00b8c5e0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > I own an 1898 bodice which is so small that the smaller of my daughters > couldn't wear it after she was about 5 or 6 (I tried it on her once about > then). The waist is about 22" measured by the waist band, hook to eye. > And I have looked at the waist measurements of the garments in Nancy > Bradfield's Costume In Detail, which go back to the 1700's. > > I believe 22"-teensy, I just don't believe 15"-teensy. If this were > anything like common I would expect to encounter more teensy-waist antique > garments in collections. I have seen none. Has anyone else on this list? > (real question here, not rhetorical - I really want to know) > About three years ago when I was somewhat thinner I had a 24-inch waist at my skinny times of the month. I think it wouldn't be too unrealistic for me to have corsetted myself down to 22", though I've never worn Victorian style corsets so I couldn't say. I am short admittedly, but not especially fine boned (I meet plenty of women more petite than me), and very curvy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 22:22:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05829 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 22:22:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA18233; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:31:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA06039 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:29:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA06023 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:29:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.out) with ESMTP id TAA25158 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:28:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36957965.3D36F011@best.com> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 19:20:05 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press Robin Netherton wrote: > -Poster: Robin Netherton > > On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > I believe 22"-teensy, I just don't believe 15"-teensy. If this were > > anything like common I would expect to encounter more teensy-waist antique > > garments in collections. I have seen none. Has anyone else on this list? Not that belonged to adults. There is significant evidence, other than surviving garments, available for the Victorian and Edwardian periods. Many tailors and dressmakers developed and published pattern-drafting "systems" that included what they thought, from professional experience, were "standard" measurements for given heights. Much like the size charts on modern pattern envelopes. The accuracy of any "system" was an important marketing point, because the whole idea was to build more fit into the pattern and spend less time fitting the garment on the wearer. There are also size charts available for various paper pattern companies, either in their sewing manuals (which many of them published) or on the pattern envelopes. > > > I was under the impression that the contemporary references to things like > 15" waists were actually referring to the *corset* size, which was > measured in inches, and that a gap of as much as six inches could be left > between the edges when the corset was worn. It would thus make sense for > women to refer to their size as a "15-inch waist" the same way we talk > about being a "size 12" or a "33 inseam" or whatever. Today, unfamiliar > with this specialized use of "inch," we hear or read a quote saying > "15-inch waist" and we automatically think of actual inch measurements > around the waist. > Also, people do wishfully exaggerate their measurements. When I studied clothing design I remember people teaming up to take each others' measurements for slopers. The instructor told everyone they had to take accurate measurements and if the sloper didn't fit right the person (the wearer) who made it would have to fix it. Just the same there were a lot of people saying things like, "That's not my real waist size, I just ate a big dinner last night. Write it down as thus-and-so." And the art of retouching photos is as old as photography, not to mention painting flattering portraits. The topic "Were people really smaller 'then'?" and in particular, "Did they really have super-small waists 'then'?" seems to be a perennial on h-costume. I'm not criticising anyone, but I do wonder why. Because it seems many people _want_ to believe in the tiny-waist myths, despite the fact that, as far as I know, no one has come up with much real evidence. Most people on this list at least know what corseting, and possibly modern diet-and-exercise programs, can do for them personally. Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 22:34:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05991 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 22:34:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA19155; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:43:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA07159 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:41:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id UAA07150 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:41:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 15927 invoked from network); 8 Jan 1999 03:41:42 -0000 Received: from tntmodem3-35.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.135.35) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 1999 03:41:42 -0000 Message-ID: <3695A23A.7A8A@mc.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 22:14:18 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #10 References: <199901051559.IAA01472@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Whoops -- I seem to have led some of you (including me!) on a (temporary, I hope) wylde goose chase. I can't get to the Coollist server either, and a couple of others on SCA garb list also haven't been. This looks like a problem with the server (I've tried directly from posts to the list) and I've posted to the list asking if anyone knows what the problem is or can find out. I'll post to this list as soon as I hear anything, promise! Heather Law/"Sister Ed" > - -Poster: Orlaith > > The years are 600 to 1600 AD, with tolerance for Cavalier ("3-Musketeers > Look). If you'll send me your email addy, I'll send you a list of my > favorite sites, plus several SCA web pages. Also, you would be up to > your ears in help, I think, if you joined the SCA-Garb list, at > > http://www.coollist.com > > Is anyone else having problems getting into this website? I have been trying > for more than a week and I keep getting connection refused. I really would > like to get the digest version of the SCA Garb list if it is available since > there does seem to be a Anti-SCA feeling on this list sometimes and I would > like to read both. > > Beth > Orlaith of Storvik > Orlaith@usa.net > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 22:38:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06066 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 22:38:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA19600; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:47:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA07661 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:45:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA07656 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:45:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p35.directcon.net [206.170.184.84]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA13131 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:41:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:41:21 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901080341.TAA13131@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: foundation garments Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson > >No corset can entirely prevent 'hanky panky'. Shakespeare In Love shows >that pretty clearly. In my (somewhat limited) experience, most 'hanky >panky' occours above the waist... Really? Can you document that? Are there hanky panky guidelines somewhere? :-) At the risk of sharing a bit too much, once in my mispent youth I went to an event in my candy-pink, brain sucking Cavalier costume. There's something about that gown that makes me misbehave, and I ended up spending a large portion of the evening out in the underbrush with a young man who was quite chagrined to find that a well fitted corset of the period does not have *any* extra room....but that the full skirts of the period offer interesting possibilities. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 22:39:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06073 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 22:39:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA19758; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:48:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA07773 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:46:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA07766 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:46:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip229.an7-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.18.229]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA21147 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:46:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36957222.35F25835@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 22:49:08 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Jerkin/doublet (was:Shakespeare In Love) References: <199901070050.QAA06422@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Margo Anderson wrote: > Since there appear to have > been people who called themselves jerkin makers, and tailors advertised > making doublets I think the reason for this, aside from guild regulations, is that doublets, at least in the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries, were always padded and quilted. However, I don't know if that continues to be true in Elizabethan times. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 22:51:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06290 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 22:51:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA21017; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:00:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA08975 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:57:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id UAA08969 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:57:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 19970 invoked from network); 8 Jan 1999 03:58:19 -0000 Received: from tntmodem3-35.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.135.35) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 1999 03:58:19 -0000 Message-ID: <3695A620.3720@mc.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 22:30:56 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #11 References: <199901051820.LAA27098@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law *nyuk* Let's hear it for gutsy Fresh Meat (er, excuse me, Newcomers) in groups everywhere! I was in college way back when I first joined, and showed up at my first event in... Sweat pants, a sleeveles jerkin of the (un-)finest polyester-- I think I *did* try to make the thing lace up the front -- and a "coif" of army-green pinwale cordurouy (sp??). And tennies. I wouldn't have passed the *screaming distance* rule, let alone 10 feet! And I got less criticism on this mess than I did on my Edo-period, wide-shoulder-kami-shimo samurai garb I made later on. (Also, less compliments.) Now I'm in the 2nd piece of garb I ever made, a black hooded T-tunic with a veil that covers the hood. ("Old habits die hard...") I've gotten compliments on this, from the 1 1/2 feet behind my table, (fabric, anyone?) not I think because of "authenticity" but because of *convincingness*. However, one of these days, I am going to make me a *new* habit... Heather Law/"Sister Ed" > > Less than 2 years ago, I was a newcomer in the SCA. One of the first things > I was told was the 10 foot guideline. And thank god for the guideline. I spent > days sewing and embroidering and beading a tunic. No sleeve tunic. Darts and > a zipper. Poly twill. I just put it in the gold key box. *urp* It was really > nice > actually, just no way was it period. I wore it with a calf length silk velvet > circle > skirt and my biker boots. I'm cracking up typing this. My god, the tunic was > navy, the skirt plum. I wore a crocheted leather top over all this as fake chain > mail. *sigh* *laugh* Some nice lady was even kind enough to compliment > me on the skirt. The fabric *was* gorgeous. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 22:51:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06294 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 22:51:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA21028; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:00:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA08990 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:57:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA08977 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:57:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip229.an7-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.18.229]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05511 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:57:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369574DD.D4C8C99D@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 23:00:48 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Cyrano References: <67ed7ad1.369524a0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Both of you might wish to point out, for the benefit of those on the list who may not know this, that 'panache' in French has the double meaning of *both* the white plume and 'style', 'flair', etc. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 23:00:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA06444 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:00:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA22004; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:10:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA09950 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:08:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id VAA09937 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:08:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 22682 invoked from network); 8 Jan 1999 04:08:32 -0000 Received: from tntmodem3-35.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.135.35) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 1999 04:08:32 -0000 Message-ID: <3695A885.19B2@mc.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 22:41:09 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #11 References: <199901051820.LAA27098@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Jennie, Have you looked into local sheltered workshops, job-training programs, and the like? You might have to provide some teaching/supervision, or maybe could work with a job-training program to get something set up. Sheltered workshops often do sewing, although it may have to be the easy stuff, than farm out the harder stuff to someone else. Even if you have to ship the stuff to a city in another state, it could solve the sweatshop, price, and a few people's jobless problems. I'd call the Chambers of Commerce for towns in your area, the county, and also your state capitol. If you can't find the right phone number, call your area's state rep or the Governor's office. They're usually well-staffed and helpful, and besides, you're paying their salaries -- and they know it! Good luck, Heather Law > From: Jennie Chancey > Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 12:31:58 -0500 > Subject: H-COST: Major Design Project -- Need sources! > > - -Poster: Jennie Chancey > > Back again after Christmas/New Year's vacation, and I've just been > handed a huge project that is quite exciting. > > A new catalogue (which must remain nameless for now) is starting up, > which will feature authentic, high quality historical/nostalgic toys for > boys. Kind of like the American Girls line with the dolls and matching > historical outfits, this new catalogue would like to offer five or six > complete outfits for boys that go along with a story from the past, like > Sergeant York, Davy Crockett, Squanto, etc. > > I have been asked to design the outfits, and I am very excited to do > so. However, because the company has never done anything in the > clothing area before, they do not know where to go to hire the labor to > have the outfits made. They do not want to use China or Mexico > (sweatshops), but they do need to be able to order 500-1000 outfits at a > pop and keep them in stock in three sizes (3-5 year old; 6-9 year old; > 10-12 year old). I know a lot of great seamstresses out there who make > boys' reenacting clothing, etc., but I am clueless when it comes to > outsourcing something this huge. > > Does anyone on the list know of a company or group that can make good > quality clothing (not Halloween costume "cheap-os," but not reenactment > quality goods, either)? I would appreciate any and all suggestions. > I'm going to get on the net and look around, but I seriously doubt I'll > find something without a referral. And I do need to be able to make > sure they do not use underpaid or "free" labor. > > Thanks much! > > Jennie Chancey > - -- > Sense and Sensibility > http://www.sensibility.com > winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 7 23:06:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA06530 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:06:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA22532; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:16:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA10558 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:14:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA10550 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:14:04 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip37.van20.pacifier.com [216.65.138.37]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA15629 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:14:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901080414.UAA15629@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:14:30 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36950228.CA5F7EA@best.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > The closest I know anyone to have come to a 15" waist > is a slightly taller acquaintance who claims to be an ex-model and also > claims to have a 21" waist, which she tells everyone as soon as she > meets them and often thereafter. She looks pretty gaunt, so I'd say her > hobby is certainly dieting. As far as I know she does not wear corsets. When Catherine was doing the 15" thing, she was sorting out people for her court ladies in waiting. Some of those would have been teenage women. When I was in high school and college, I had a 19" waist when I pooched my stomach out. I was fairly thin, but I'm also 5'4". I was about 105# at the time. I had to buy a size 6 pattern (when they could be found in the pattern books) and decrease it from 23" (which was the measurements for that size) down so that they didn't bag in the waist. Still have my fitting sloper from then. Boy, is it a hoot. My hips and shoulders were large compared to my waist (and still are.) (I don't want to be that small ever again. I like my 25" waist and the breasts I never had when I was 16 and could have used them for self esteem reasons!) I think I probably could have gotten down to a 15" pretty easily with a restricting corset (not that I would have wanted to, however.) I see a lot of teenage girls (sports physicals, well visits and the like.) Some of them have pretty small waists. My hands can span them (and I'm not talking about anorexics either.) They might be able to have a 15" over corseted waist. While I doubt any of the adults or anyone who's had a baby would get a 15" waist, I can't say it never happened either. I just think that in this day and age it's unlikely. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 05:36:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA19124 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 05:35:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA13023; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 03:45:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA24378 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 03:43:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from morgoth.tuug.org (root@morgoth.tuug.org [130.232.72.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA24220 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 03:43:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from delenn.yok.utu.fi ([130.232.128.27] HELO delenn.yok.utu.fi ident: NO-IDENT-SERVICE [port 21508]) by tuug.org with SMTP id <40815-271>; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:42:50 +0200 From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" Organization: Lyninine Federation To: Leslie Helms , h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:43:13 +2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA garb list Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199901072022.MAA32642@falcon.canfield.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990108104250Z40815-271+75@tuug.org> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" On 7 Jan 99, at 12:06, Leslie Helms wrote: > The SCA garb list is alive and well. Several of us are on both lists, and > the SCA list does provide a little more leeway for discussing > society-specific topics. When I'm suggesting a list to a new enthusiast, I > usually recommend joining sca-garb first until they get their bearings. > > I don't know why http://www.coollist.com wouldn't be working. Keep trying. If you can send the list address here, perhaps we can still subscribe even though the web site doesn't work. Sometimes -subscribe@ lets one subscribe (at least it works with ONElist lists). -- -------(c) 1999--------------* lynoure@tuug.org * Ella Lynoure Rajamaki--------* http://www.tuug.org/~lynoure * _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 07:04:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA20437 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:04:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA16539; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 05:13:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA03984 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 05:11:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA03969 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 05:11:27 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 8JTAa04798 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:10:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3e36bf82.3695f5ba@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:10:34 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: national portrait gallery again Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Karen is right, the colors in the paintings are spectacular. Most people don't realize that printing is simply not able to reproduce art. Oh, specialized printers can do a good job -- but a fine art reproduction, for instance, might have several special color inks (to reproduce particular shades) and varnishes (to reproduce painting effects). It still won't look exactly like the original, and a normal four-color process reproduction, such as those found in books and postcards, won't come close. Likewise, lithography can't produce the extremely sharp lines found in most artwork. Can you tell that my husband is a printer? I was lucky enough to be able to get to the Vermeer exhibit in Washington. I have loved his paintings (well, the good ones) for years and seen many reproductions. I was not prepared for the amazing colors and crispness of the real thing. Wait until you see the famous portrait by -- Holbein? -- of the two ambassadors. The green background will knock your socks off. As will the size -- that thing is gigantic! Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 07:04:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA20436 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:04:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA16536; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 05:13:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA03986 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 05:11:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA03971 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 05:11:27 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id NEGZa03543 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:10:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <40ead401.3695f5c9@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:10:49 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: women/pants/work Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Re: our recent discussions about what in what careers women can currently wear trousers to the office -- I noticed at least one woman Senator in trousers (a suit) at today's impeachment opening ceremony. Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 09:01:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22284 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:01:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA22895; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:11:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA11875 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:09:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA11868 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:09:11 -0700 (MST) From: Mazelle@aol.com Received: from Mazelle@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id TBIAa05514 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:08:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3e361ce2.3696115f@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:08:31 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Re: Sirs Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mazelle@aol.com Karla, Yes, the prices at Sirs are very good. If I remember correctly they do not take credit cards, however. So you might want to call and double check that before going there. Alysia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 09:07:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22365 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:07:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA23248; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:17:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA12317 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:15:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from websmtp1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com (websmtp1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com [208.156.60.91]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA12300 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:14:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigfoot (www1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com [208.156.60.161]) by websmtp1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA14339; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:04:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901081404.JAA14339@websmtp1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com> To: "Guinevere Gurtler" , h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: F-COST: Maid's Uniform help From: "Maid For Her" Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 09:15:51 -0500 X-Originating-IP: 204.0.197.163 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Maid For Her" At Fri, 08 Jan 1999 07:00:02 MST, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Guinevere Gurtler" > > > [snip] >> >>Can anyone help? Any suggestions will be appreciated. >> >>Maid For Her > >Sorry to be nosey but, what in the world did you do to deserve such a >penitence? Must have been one ____ of a bet! > It was!!!!! A little background... I had a BS in Geology from LSU and lived in College Station, TX and Tallahasee, FL. So the three teams closest to my haert are the Tigers, the Aggies and the Noles. The one team I won't cheer for is Tulane. My wife has a degree from Tulane, which leads to quite a bit of strife during football season as well as some creative bets. So I lost the bet on 3 bowl games and Tulane's standing in the final AP poll. With that strong rivally, her "punishment" was merciless. But who knows, this might be a little fun. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 09:10:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22437 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:10:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA23499; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:20:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA12651 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:18:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA12636 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:18:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a40.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.168]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA19965 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 08:18:02 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36961397.4CCAF7E6@nash.tds.net> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 08:17:59 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Sirs References: <3e361ce2.3696115f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat Mazelle@aol.com wrote: > Karla, > Yes, the prices at Sirs are very good. If I remember correctly > they do not take credit cards, however. So you might want to > call and double check that before going there. They do take out-of-town checks...don't know about out-of-state but I would assume with proper id they'd take that too. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 09:18:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22524 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:18:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA23939; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:27:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA13266 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:24:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from websmtp1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com (websmtp1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com [208.156.60.91]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA13253 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:24:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigfoot (www1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com [208.156.60.161]) by websmtp1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA14576 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:14:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901081414.JAA14576@websmtp1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Apologies to the list From: "Maid For Her" Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 09:25:39 -0500 X-Originating-IP: 204.0.197.163 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Maid For Her" Please accept my apologies. I typed h-costume by accident instead of f-costume. I'm typing a little to fast today.... Sorry. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 09:49:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22979 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:49:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA27027; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:58:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA17092 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:56:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (root@april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA17081 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:55:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA24192; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:50:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28986; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:57:07 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:56:59 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: Historic Costume cc: Historic Needlework Subject: Re: H-COST: Sneed pattern In-Reply-To: <19990108000542.2655.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed I have a page up on 16th c. hairnets/cauls that has a link to a crochet snood pattern at http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/headwear/snood.html Enjoy, Drea On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Kristen M. Sieber wrote: > > -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" > > Does anybody have, or know where I can get, a crochet snood pattern? > > Kristen M. Sieber > lady_gawain@yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 10:29:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA23592 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:29:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA01534; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 08:38:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA23366 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 08:36:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from host1.texramp.net (root@host1.texramp.net [209.144.20.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA23306; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 08:35:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from LocalHost (hydroseal.com [209.144.20.50]) by host1.texramp.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA28064; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:35:54 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199901081535.JAA28064@host1.texramp.net> From: "Sterling Ranne" To: , Subject: H-COST: WTD: Kilt jacket pattern. Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:35:53 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Sterling Ranne" I'm looking for a pattern for a Sheriffmuir kilt jacket. Also looking for a pattern for the jabot shirt that is worn with it. I can find the Prince Charlie jacket but much prefer the looks of the Sheriffmuir. Any help finding patterns greatly appreciated. Sterling 92.5% Pure sranne@hydroseal.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 11:12:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA24352 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:12:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA07179; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:22:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA01120 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:19:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from host1.texramp.net (root@host1.texramp.net [209.144.20.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA01107 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:19:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from LocalHost (hydroseal.com [209.144.20.50]) by host1.texramp.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01287 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:19:29 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199901081619.KAA01287@host1.texramp.net> From: "Sterling Ranne" To: Subject: H-COST: WTD: Kilt jacket pattern. Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:20:16 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Sterling Ranne" I'm looking for a pattern for a Sheriffmuir kilt jacket. Also looking for a pattern for the jabot shirt that is worn with it. I can find the Prince Charlie jacket but much prefer the looks of the Sheriffmuir. Any help finding patterns greatly appreciated. Sterling 92.5% Pure sranne@hydroseal.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 11:19:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA24436 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:19:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA08107; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:29:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA02544 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:27:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA02529 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:27:06 -0700 (MST) From: Chindora@aol.com Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id PLCMa01440 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:26:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <95aa8a9f.369631a2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:26:10 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 62 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Chindora@aol.com I have a 15 year old daughter that I just made an Elizabethan corset for, and her un-corseted bust and waist measurements are 34" and 21", respectively, and no, she definately does NOT have any kind of eating disorder...... I don't think I was ever that tiny after about the age of 8, so she must be a throwback to an earlier generation of willowy women..... Jane _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 12:00:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25117 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:00:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA13376; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:09:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA12270 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:06:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (root@bigpapa.nothinbut.net [207.44.32.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA12233 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:06:49 -0700 (MST) From: pame@nothinbut.net Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (mtl-ct1-03.nothinbut.net [207.44.46.13]) by bigpapa.nothinbut.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA14249 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:06:50 -0500 Message-Id: <199901081706.MAA14249@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:04:32 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Candle wax Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000201be38f0$c4b5ae20$5d14ffd0@default> References: <19990104215618.25469.qmail@www0r.netaddress.usa.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pame@nothinbut.net > -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > > Heat up the tea kettle, stretch the waxy part of the > tablecloth over the sink or a bowl, and pour boiling water > through it until the wax is gone, then launder normally. > Works fast, with one teakettle full at most. If there's a > stain in the same area, scrub that out first with > dishwashing liquid soap, so that the boiling water doesn't > set the stain. > I have two quick questions-How would you recommend removing wax from a velvet mantle cover? It is backed with acetate and heavily beaded. Second-does anyone know of a place to order or buy thimbles by size. I need a size 8 for my mother-in-law. Thank you list for your help. p. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 12:01:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25129 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:01:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA13481; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:10:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA12298 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:07:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (root@bigpapa.nothinbut.net [207.44.32.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA12254 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:06:52 -0700 (MST) From: pame@nothinbut.net Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (mtl-ct1-03.nothinbut.net [207.44.46.13]) by bigpapa.nothinbut.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA14261 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:06:53 -0500 Message-Id: <199901081706.MAA14261@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:04:32 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4.1.19990107153012.009198e0@mail.tmsonline.com> References: <36950228.CA5F7EA@best.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pame@nothinbut.net > -Poster: Lisa Scovel > > I really think it depends on how you're built. Our Maggie is 15 years old. She is 6 ft. tall. She also weighs about 119 on a good day. She is not anorexic-she eats like mad but she just came like that (built like her dad, certainly not moi!) She can easily corset down to 15 or 16 inches. When we were walking through the Nicholas and Alexandria exhibit her favorite game was "Mom, could I wear that?" The waists on these actual garments were tiny and though they would have been too short for her she loved thinking that she could squiggle into the tiny waists. I would guess that there were large variations in size as today with the tiny waist being the goal. p. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 12:01:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25133 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:01:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA13471; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:10:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA12279 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (root@bigpapa.nothinbut.net [207.44.32.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA12229 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:06:48 -0700 (MST) From: pame@nothinbut.net Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (mtl-ct1-03.nothinbut.net [207.44.46.13]) by bigpapa.nothinbut.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA14245 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:06:48 -0500 Message-Id: <199901081706.MAA14245@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:04:32 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Stays, skeletons and girdles Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19990107124115.7134.rocketmail@send204.yahoomail.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pame@nothinbut.net > -Poster: Dora Barnes > > <<< It was not just a fifties thing...The army was still requiring women enlistees to arrive with a full length slip, a firm control long line girdle and two cotton white bras in 1974. They did not, at that time supply underpinnings and you couldn't ship out without your supply list filled. It was so bizarre in the age of free spirits and the braless look. By the by, S&E has an underwear (history of) coming up in January. It should be really interesting so check the listing to check it out. P. > > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 12:01:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25135 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:01:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA13477; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:10:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA12280 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:07:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (root@bigpapa.nothinbut.net [207.44.32.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA12244 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:06:50 -0700 (MST) From: pame@nothinbut.net Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (mtl-ct1-03.nothinbut.net [207.44.46.13]) by bigpapa.nothinbut.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA14253 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:06:51 -0500 Message-Id: <199901081706.MAA14253@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:04:32 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4.1.19990105102631.0095e1e0@mail.tmsonline.com> References: <36925569.9640E596@serv.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pame@nothinbut.net > It's important to be sympathetic towards the unenlightened costumer because we > have all done silly things when we started. Which is more important, that all sorts of people are involved and > enjoying themsleves, or that we have a perfect bunch of historical fashion > models constantly attempting to outdo one another? > I would like to point out as well, that when my husband and I started in the SCA a billion years ago, the fighters were all wearing freon cans on their and wearing armour made of carpet remnants! Historical costuming has come a long way in 25 years whether at ren faires or SCA or even in local theatre groups. We can't now turn snobs and figure we have come as far as we can. It is a hobby for all that it is an expensive one. Remember, guys, even history is suposed to be fun. p. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 12:29:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25563 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:29:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA16683; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:39:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA17625 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:36:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from inet16.us.oracle.com (inet16.us.oracle.com [192.86.155.100]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA17590 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:36:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from usmail05 (usmail05.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.200]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA07969 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:35:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by usmail05 (SMI-8.6/37.9) id JAA08846; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:19:03 -0800 Message-Id: <199901081719.JAA08846@usmail05> Date: 08 Jan 99 09:18:21 -0800 From: "SNORTON.US.ORACLE.COM" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: looking for seamstress. X-Orcl-Application: In-Reply-To:OASUN1.US.ORACLE.COM:owner-h-costume@indra.com's message of 07-Jan-99 04:04 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.1.2.12.0) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_ORCL_46269309_0_0" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "SNORTON.US.ORACLE.COM" --=_ORCL_46269309_0_0 Content-Transfer-Encoding:7bit Content-Type:text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Sara, I don't know where you are -- or if you would be comfortable working with someone long distance -- but I can strongly recommend Kathleen Anne Crowley in San Francisco. She is very nice, extremely talented and has fair prices. She's not yet on email but here's how to reach her: Kathleen Anne Crowley 861 Fell St., Apt. A San Francisco, CA 94117 415.864.5616 Good luck, Sally Norton snorton@us.oracle.com --=_ORCL_46269309_0_0 Content-Type:message/rfc822 Date: 07 Jan 99 13:08:35 From:"Sara J. Davitt" To:h-costume@indra.com Subject:H-COST: looking for seamstress. Reply-to:OASUN1.US.ORACLE.COM:h-costume@indra.com Return-Path: Received:from mailsun3 by usmail05 with SMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id UAA18555; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:07:20 -0800 Received:from inet16.us.oracle.com by mailsun3 with ESMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id NAA16067; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:01:24 -0800 Received:from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAB20933 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:00:07 -0800 (PST) Received:from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA07458; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:03:10 -0700 (MST) Received:(from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA04862 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:00:40 -0700 (MST) Received:from dias.net (dias.net [199.170.176.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA04828 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:00:32 -0700 (MST) Received:from localhost (ophelia@localhost) by dias.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA09700 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:08:36 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ophelia@dias.net) In-Reply-To:<36940873.5FC37855@pacbell.net> Message-ID: Sender:owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type:TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding:7bit -Poster: "Sara J. Davitt" OK, I have a bishops cassock that I would like to have adapted into a jacket. Anyone up to the task?... I would supply the fabric, and the cassock, and how much would this cost? Thanks! (Please relpy Off-List) Sarahj _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME --=_ORCL_46269309_0_0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 12:37:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25710 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:37:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA14358; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:15:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA09016 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:50:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA09001 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:50:23 -0700 (MST) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id BAAVa03539 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:49:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <90858caa.36963727@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:49:43 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST:Hepburn's Embassy Ball Dress Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com For whomever it was who was looking for pics of Audrey Hepburn in the Embassy Ball dress in My Fair Lady, there are two pics of this dress in the book "Cecil Beaton stage and film designs" isbn 1 85490 398 5 On pages 119, a 3/4 shot of her sitting in the dress, and p 120 a full length frontal view. BTW for anyone interested in the costumes from the Ascot scene (as I am) there are some great photos and sketches of the extras costumes from that scene in this book as well. Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 12:39:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25720 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:39:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA17588; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:48:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA19236 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:45:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA19229 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:45:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip101.an3-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.14.101]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA13573 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:45:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369636EF.D20CEF8B@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 12:48:47 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Apologies to the list References: <199901081414.JAA14576@websmtp1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Too bad--I was getting really curious! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 12:54:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25959 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:54:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA19780; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:04:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA22370 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:01:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA22360 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:01:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from 38.29.61.77 (ip77.phoenix8.az.pub-ip.psi.net [38.29.61.77]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA01236 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:01:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3695E6AC.58A4@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 11:06:20 +0000 From: "S.B. McDaniel" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0-C-AICK1-2 (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Mid-20th C. Foundation Garments References: <199901071654.JAA20373@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "S.B. McDaniel" Dora wrote: > . "Nice firm girdles" were > essential, not only for the visual shape, but for support, posture >> and the indefinable - "it was good for you". I'm showing my age, too. When I started parochial high school in 1967, my mother insisted that a "proper" girdle was necessary as I was wearing stockings (None of us would be caught dead in the uniform alternative: bobby socks!!). While pantyhose had been around for a few years, they were essentially unwearable. (Anyone else remember the revolutionary introduction of "Little Prune" stretch panythose?) I finally was able to find a garter belt (They weren't easily available here in AZ in 1967.) which solved the problem. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 12:58:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA26035 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:58:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA20138; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:08:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA22960 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:05:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA22947 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:05:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.out) with ESMTP id KAA04943 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:03:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36964661.144BE81C@best.com> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 09:54:42 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? References: <95aa8a9f.369631a2@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press Chindora@aol.com wrote: > -Poster: Chindora@aol.com > > I have a 15 year old daughter that I just made an Elizabethan corset for, and > her un-corseted bust and waist measurements are 34" and 21", respectively, and > no, she definately does NOT have any kind of eating disorder...... > Well, I wouldn't say age 15 is adult . . . Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 13:17:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26166 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:17:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA22616; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:27:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA26350 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:24:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA26267 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:24:20 -0700 (MST) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DYF8XCLV; Fri, 08 Jan 1999 13:24:15 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:00:03 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: foundation garments Message-ID: <19990108.121224.25342.22.seamstrix@juno.com> References: <199901080341.TAA13131@zeus.directcon.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-6 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com In a bit of synchronicity, apparently the cable channel A&E will be having a program on underclothing in the next few days. I think it's either Saturday or Sunday and I remember seeing shots of period corsets and hoop constructions in the preview. Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 13:53:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26313 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:53:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA26779; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:03:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA02722 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:00:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA02691 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:00:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.158 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:00:03 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Resource Books Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:01:29 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be3b39$b0352480$9e17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Francois Boucher's 20,000 Years of Fashion, $35 from www.Amazon.com Alternatively, I heard great things about Naomi Tarrant's survey book. Se's at the National Museum of Scotland. Kohler's History of Costume, very inexpensive in paper. Janet Arnold: Patterns of Fashion, Volumes I, II, and III, or Norah Waugh's The Cut of Women's Clothes, expensive, but essential. Norah Waugh: Corsets and Crinolines, essential, and inexpensive Norah Waugh: The Cut of Men's Clothes I think all of these are in print now. I get my books mostly from interlibrary loan or used at a considerable discount at http://www.bookfinder.com (formerly http://www.mxbf.com), which is a multi search engine of about 20 used book sellers. The following are out of print too, except for Beck and Bradfield, but I love them: Phillips & Tomkinson's English Women in Life and Letters, Oxford University Press 1926 Dion Clayton Calthrop's English Costume, 1906 in four volumes Alice Morse Earle's Dress in America, an older book in 2 volumes. Jaqueline Herald's Italian Renaissance Dress in Italy 1400-1500 Nancy Bradfield's Costume in Detail, for 1725 to about 1935 English women's clothing Thomasina Beck's The Embroiderer's Story, spans 1650 to 1950 You can get an lot off the Web these days. The best source of non-western garb is Max Tilke's 1922 volume of watercolors based on garments in the Berlin Ethnographic Museum, and it's very hard to find and expensive. However, its on the Web in its entirety at: http://www.indiana.edu/librcsd/etext/tilke. It includes North Africa, the Balkans, The Mid-East, SW Russia, and almost all of Asia, except the Arctic. Here are URL's for the often-requested Greenland Dress(es): http://www.virtualelpaso.com/neverwinter/dress/dress.htm http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5923/cloth/herjbac k.html The best sources I know for cutting systems and tailoring books are online at R.L. Shep / Fred Struthers: http://www.mcn.org/e/fsbks/HTML/booklist.htm and Lavolta Press: http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm These Webpages link to a huge variety of things, in addition to having strong content of their own: http://members.aol.com/nebula5/costume.html Best all-round costume reference site by Julie Zetterberg, who must be a librarian at heart. There’s an incredible “how to” section, everything from children’s Halloween to ethnic, to movies, to historical, to ice skating, to fantasy, to dance, to art history image sources, to ……frequently updated and expanded. http://www.costumes.org More theatrically oriented site, done by incredibly creative and enthusiastic Tara McGuinness, who heads the costume shop for the student theatre for the University of Alaska at Fairbanks. http://www.costumegallery.com by Penny Dunlap Ladnier is another good one. My favorite parts are the “library” and Yoshiwara’s “La Couturiere Parisienne de la Marquise de Pompadour” which has great images and patterns for historical dresses of the last 3-4 centuries. Got to stop. There is a slew of web-based sourses for paintings, woodcuts, and engravings which I find very helpful, too. Direct your questions to http://www.metacrawler.com, which is a consortium of about 8 search engines and thus the most comprehensive search engine I know. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Vickers, Jill Sent: Thursday, January 07, 1999 9:49 PM To: 'h-costume' Subject: H-COST: Resource Books -Poster: "Vickers, Jill" I'm interested in starting a historic costume reference library, but as a costuming newbie (although long-time sewer), I'm not sure what to start with. Could someone please tell me what the top five or so books are that are considered "must haves" (and hopefully currently in print!) for those just starting out? I am most interested in the general references that span several periods, as well as books specifically on the Elizabethan and Early Victorian periods. Thanks, -Jill ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 14:19:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA26403 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:19:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA29637; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:28:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA06954 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:25:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA06939 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:25:53 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id MOYPa18628 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:25:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <11b19d20.36965b95@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:25:09 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST:Cyrano-OT Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 226 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 1/7/1999 19:58:24 Pacific Standard Time, lwilson16@earthlink.net writes: << Both of you might wish to point out, for the benefit of those on the list who may not know this, that 'panache' in French has the double meaning of *both* the white plume and 'style', 'flair', etc. Lauri >> Lauri, we took it off list, and Margo and I figured out the problem. If we had been discussing Cyrano, or the quote, or whatever, her comments were appropriate. However, it's just my *sig* file and I was really annoyed that it was apparently being "critiqued" since that isn't a statement to anyone, but rather a small statement *about* myself. She had misread the quote and thought it was part of my post, and in that context, was simply commenting on the translation, which is no big deal. All is well, no guns are blazing. However, French literature is kinda OT for the list, so I don't think we'll be getting into it much. angil + + + + + + + Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing "Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds" A. Einstein _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 17:31:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA27166 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:31:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA19483; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:12:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA03868 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:03:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA03859 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:03:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA13939 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:03:36 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:03:36 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> Sorry, Long Island Staylace Association. www.staylace.com Be aware that while this site does have some neat images and resources for the historical costumer, it also has quite a bit fetish stuff, too. I took a look yesterday and couldn't find the quote on Vampyra's waist measurement. I must have seen it elsewhere. > -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > What's the L.I.S.A. page? > > On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Emma Elizabeth Lehman wrote: > > > > > -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > > > > > > > >Re 15" waists, anyone know how small Vampira's waist was in her corset? > > > >It looked like about 15" to me. For that matter, anyone old enough > > > >besides me to remember Vampira? > > > > > > I remember a Vampira comic book character, but I assume you're talking about > > > a live person? > > > > I remember Vampira, she was in Ed Wood's classic bomb "Plan 9 From Outer > > Space". I remember (vaguely) seeing somewhere what her waist measurement > > was, but I don't recall what it was or where I saw it. I'd check the > > L.I.S.A. page.... > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > Divinity Designs http://www.d-e-designs.com/divinity/ > 515 Manhattan Drive, #203 sylvia@netherworld.com > Boulder, CO 80303 USA complete catalog on website > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 17:54:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA27239 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:54:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA25185; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:03:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA13276 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:00:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA13245 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:00:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-84.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.84]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA27686 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:00:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990107221522.0092c100@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 22:15:22 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <3694C347.F46BBBE5@nash.tds.net> References: <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> <4.1.19990106232920.00b96100@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >When you get a chance to actually look at clothing from earlier >periods it's amazing how much smaller they are... That reminded me, when I was young (I think I was just under 10 yrs) I got to try on my great-aunt's wedding dress. It was too small for me as *skinny* 10 year old. Her shoes were about a size 3 I think. The dress was beautiful white silk & lace 1920's "flapper" dress and is now in a small museum. If she was still alive the size difference would be extremely marked; I'm a rubenesque 5'10". :) Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 19:56:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA27764 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 19:56:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA07920; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:05:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA00552 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:02:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA00546 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:02:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.185] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zymnV-0001Gz-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:02:38 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990108073629.00b94720@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990108073629.00b94720@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 07:49:24 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990107165438.00b8c5e0@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >About three years ago when I was somewhat thinner I had a 24-inch waist >at my skinny times of the month. I think it wouldn't be too unrealistic >for me to have corsetted myself down to 22", though I've never worn >Victorian style corsets so I couldn't say. I am short admittedly, >but not especially fine boned (I meet plenty of women more petite than >me), and very curvy. I believe you. In 1972 I could (and did) corset down to 26", and I am far from petite. What I don't believe is corseting down to 15". and >I was under the impression that the contemporary references to things like >15" waists were actually referring to the *corset* size, which was >measured in inches, and that a gap of as much as six inches could be left >between the edges when the corset was worn. It would thus make sense for >women to refer to their size as a "15-inch waist" the same way we talk >about being a "size 12" or a "33 inseam" or whatever. Today, unfamiliar >with this specialized use of "inch," we hear or read a quote saying >"15-inch waist" and we automatically think of actual inch measurements >around the waist. This is my impression as well. Brag about the corset size, then don't lace it all the way shut. and >Not that belonged to adults. and >Also, people do wishfully exaggerate their measurements. I think this is what we are seeing when we read acounts of teensy waists in the 15" range. This includes paintings done to suit clients and photos retouched for the same reason. Certainly people were smaller then, but not that much smaller. This is why I wanted to find an actual antique adult garment in that size. It would tend to prove that at least one person really was that small. (And we could get the rest of her proportions at the same time.) I'm still waiting, still unconvinced. When I studied >clothing design I remember people teaming up to take each others' measurements >for slopers. The instructor told everyone they had to take accurate >measurements and if the sloper didn't fit right the person (the wearer) who made >it would have to fix it. Just the same there were a lot of people saying things >like, "That's not my real waist size, I just ate a big dinner last night. Write >it down as thus-and-so." > >And the art of retouching photos is as old as photography, not to mention >painting flattering portraits. > >The topic "Were people really smaller 'then'?" and in particular, "Did they >really have super-small waists 'then'?" seems to be a perennial on h-costume. >I'm not criticising anyone, but I do wonder why. Because it seems many people >_want_ to believe in the tiny-waist myths, despite the fact that, as far as I >know, no one has come up with much real evidence. Most people on this list at >least know what corseting, and possibly modern diet-and-exercise programs, can >do for them personally. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 20:05:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA27800 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:05:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA09064; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:15:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA01723 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:12:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA01683 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:12:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from wolfenet.com (cust-132-11.as01.ptld.eli.net [209.210.132.11]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12705 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:12:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3696AD21.FE84D15A@wolfenet.com> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 17:13:05 -0800 From: "Erin K. Gault" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Undergarment TV special Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Erin K. Gault" I went to the A&E website and found a description of this show. It shows on January 17 9pm/1am ET (6pm/10pm PT). Here's the link: http://www.aande.com/viewers/premieres/unmentionables.html Erin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 20:58:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA27972 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:58:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA13259; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 19:07:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA06664 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 19:05:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA06657 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 19:05:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.out) with ESMTP id SAA27904 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:03:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3696B6FD.64B02B39@best.com> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 17:55:10 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? References: <4.1.19990107165438.00b8c5e0@pop.slip.net> <4.1.19990108073629.00b94720@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press > I think this is what we are seeing when we read acounts of teensy waists in > the 15" range. This includes paintings done to suit clients and photos > retouched for the same reason. Certainly people were smaller then, but not > that much smaller. This is why I wanted to find an actual antique adult > garment in that size. It would tend to prove that at least one person > really was that small. (And we could get the rest of her proportions at > the same time.) I'm still waiting, still unconvinced. One thing I didn't make clear is: The rest of a person's measurements don't change with height as much as you might think. As I said, I'm 4'9". I can't say how my body would have developed with different nutrition, or childhood corseting that might have altered my bones or internal organs. But, I'm a pretty standard modern size except for height. I got bored making modern clothes, and I don't need to because I can buy perfectly good ones at department stores. The historic patterns I make now aren't as standardized as modern Vogue, etc, and I change the styles; so the amount of alteration I do on those doesn't indicate much. But when I used Vogue and so forth, all I had to do was buy a standard size, reduce the waist and sleeve lengths an inch each, reduce the waist-to-hip measurement another 1 1/2 to 2 inches, and take some more off the skirt below the hips, the amount depending on the skirt style. And I had a well-fitting pattern. What I'm trying to say is, being shorter doesn't give you a whole different body. And yes, when I was 15 I was smaller than now--everywhere. I didn't have a fully adult figure yet. As for corseting from 22" to 15"--my theory is the thinner you are the fewer inches you can squeeze off without discomfort, because the corset is not just displacing fat but pushing on the ribcage (and possibly the hip bones depending on the style). If anyone wants to try it, let me know if it can be endured for an entire day, not just a few minutes of experimentation. I don't tight-lace, have no wish to, and would have to make a new corset to experiment with. Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 21:54:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA28169 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 21:54:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA17823; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:04:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA11885 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:01:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from falcon.canfield.com (root@falcon.canfield.com [206.191.139.20]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA11858 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:01:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from Leslie (u6-48.wa.net [206.191.135.112]) by falcon.canfield.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA03097; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 19:09:55 -0800 Message-Id: <199901090309.TAA03097@falcon.canfield.com> X-Sender: leslieh@mail.canfield.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 18:58:40 -0800 To: lynoure@tuug.org, h-costume@indra.com From: Leslie Helms Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA garb list In-Reply-To: <19990108104250Z40815-271+75@tuug.org> References: <199901072022.MAA32642@falcon.canfield.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Leslie Helms It appears that although the sca-garb list is still operating, the control functions are down and subscriptions can't be processed. Weird! They're trying to regroup. Leslie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 22:14:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA28240 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:14:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA19410; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:24:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA13498 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:22:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from titanium.sge.net (titanium.sge.net [152.91.9.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA13487 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:22:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by titanium.sge.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA21875 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:21:33 +1100 (EST) Received: from kryptonite.sge.net(10.1.2.11) by titanium.sge.net via smap (3.2) id xma021859; Sat, 9 Jan 99 14:21:26 +1100 Received: from amber. (ice-int2.sge.net [10.1.2.254]) by kryptonite.sge.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA16139 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:21:26 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199901090321.OAA16139@kryptonite.sge.net> From: WICKHAM Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: rules of the list? Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:19:16 +1100 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: WICKHAM Raymond Just to state that I also stand with the gentles and ratify Sandras comments Enough said Play on Damocles Truhart Principality of Lachac Barony of Rowany Sometimes I have a terrible need of, shall I say the word, religion. Then I go out at night and paint the stars. --Vincent van Gogh _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 8 23:52:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA28602 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:51:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA29596; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:01:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA21371 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 21:59:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id VAA21339 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 21:58:52 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 21:58:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2709 invoked from network); 9 Jan 1999 04:54:20 -0000 Received: from 2.64.3-8.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.231.64.2) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 1999 04:54:20 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990108205945.3e970b56@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: H-COST: Sutter's Fort 1999 Schedule Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich As I have in past years (just a little slow this time ), here is the schedule for docent activities at Sutter's Fort in Sacramento, CA, during 1999. When I am at the Fort, I can usually be found in the Blanket Factory or the Kitchen. SUTTER'S FORT STATE HISTORIC PARK 2701 L Street, Sacramento, CA 95816 During all of the "special days" described below, the participants are in clothing circa 1846 (Living History and Summer Interpretive Program are most accurately costumed), working at tasks of the time. Come in and "set a spell". An added bonus, if a particular room is being used by an interpreter, you are invited in. FORT GIFT SHOP/BOOK STORE open daily. Well worth a visit. Call for information at 916-442-4966. LIVING HISTORY DAYS for 1999 10am to 4pm, $6 for adults [over 13], $3 for children [6 - 12], under 6 free During Living History Days we try to bring you back to 1846, rather like walking into the past. These events go on rain or shine; in the past we have had some real downpours. Saturday, March 6 Saturday, April 17 Saturday, June 19 Saturday, September 18 Saturday, November 20* *Evening Living History, call 916-445-7373 for reservations starting on October 15th; this is a reservation-only, no-refund, guided tour of Sutter's Fort at night. You can be a "ghost from the future" and eavesdrop. PIONEER DEMONSTRATION DAYS for 1999 10am to 5pm, $3 for adults, $1.50 for children, under 6 free; increased fee in June/July/August During "Demo Days" we show you some of the activities that our ancestors worked at. Saturday, January 23 Saturday, February 13 & 20 Saturday, March 20 +Friday, Saturday, Sunday April 23, 24, 25 [increased fee] Saturday, May 8 & 16 Saturday, June 12 [increased fee] Saturday, July 10 & 17 [increased fee] Saturday, August 14 & 21 [increased fee] Saturday, September 11 Saturday, October 9 & 15 Saturday, November 13 Saturday, December 11 (Christmas at the Fort) +Mountain Man/Pioneer Traders' & Crafts Faire: Early 1800s era goods sold (mostly reproduction, but some antiques), historic demonstrations, "hands-on" activities. Friday & Saturday 10am-5pm, Sunday 10am-4pm. "HISTORY LIVE", A SUMMER PROGRAM Memorial Day weekend through Labor Day 10am to 5pm, $6 for adults, $3 for children, under 6 free Live Reenactors on site every day Please call the Fort for more information 916-445-4422. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 00:00:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA28634 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 00:00:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA00369; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:10:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA22120 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:07:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from hummer.tci.net (hummer.TCI.NET [209.19.4.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA22106 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:07:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from 59303-a (c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.4.53.172]) by hummer.tci.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id YRF0SBCF; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:06:37 -0700 Message-ID: <019101be3b90$b9038e60$ac350418@59303-a.plano1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA garb list Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:26:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" Site fails ping and all other tests. I think they are gone gone gone. They may have lost their domain registration. Sincerely, Ches aka Chiara Francesca Steward of Coronation XL http://www.io.com/~ches/coronation99 -----Original Message----- From: Leslie Helms To: lynoure@tuug.org ; h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, January 08, 1999 8:51 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA garb list : :-Poster: Leslie Helms : :It appears that although the sca-garb list is still operating, the control :functions are down and subscriptions can't be processed. Weird! They're :trying to regroup. : :Leslie : _________________________________________________________________ : To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com : with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME : _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 01:33:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA29845 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 01:33:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA07306; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:42:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA27961 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:39:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id XAA27954 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:39:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 25497 invoked from network); 9 Jan 1999 06:40:14 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-34.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.34) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 1999 06:40:14 -0000 Message-ID: <36971D94.7FF0@mc.net> Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 01:12:52 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: SCA-GARB list-it's out there, Scully References: <199901090102.SAA00572@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Hi everyone, Sorry for another slightly OT SCA posting, but hoping the efforts will provide a separate forum for SCA-specific stuff and help keep it off here. (We are a big group, BTW, so maybe that's why we seem to get "targetted" a lot for discussing OT stuff here.) Seems that the server is indeed down, and the list owner is searching for another one to move the list to (a couple of suggestions have already been offered). As soon as I hear back from her, I'll let you know. Heather/Sister Ed the Disorganized _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 01:59:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA29928 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 01:59:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA05556; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:09:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA26194 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:06:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA26188 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:06:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from CC1010062-A.avnl1.nj.home.com ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.0 201-221-107) with SMTP id <19990109060655.TOXD2583.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@CC1010062-A.avnl1.nj.home.com> for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:06:55 -0800 Message-ID: <060c01be3b96$d13e3240$cb860318@CC1010062-A.avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA garb list Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 01:10:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" The server has to still exist or the email wouldn't go through it :) Here's their info from Internic: Registrant: Cool List Mail Services (COOLLIST-DOM) PO Box 692 Melbourne, Victoria 3106 AU Domain Name: COOLLIST.COM Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Astra Labs Hostmaster (ALH2-ORG) domain@ASTRAWEB.COM +613-9846-6482 Fax- - Billing Contact: Astra Labs Hostmaster (ALH2-ORG) domain@ASTRAWEB.COM +613-9846-6482 Fax- - Record last updated on 02-Aug-98. Record created on 10-May-97. Database last updated on 8-Jan-99 05:02:12 EST. Domain servers in listed order: NS1.ASTRAWEB.COM 209.133.34.81 NS1.NOC.ASTRAWEB.COM 209.133.78.10 Perhaps emailing the tech person to ask how to subscribe and unsubscribe? Think I'll do that now, as a matter of fact :) Suz -----Original Message----- From: Franchesca Havas To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 12:06 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA garb list > >-Poster: "Franchesca Havas" > >Site fails ping and all other tests. I think they are gone gone gone. They >may have lost their domain registration. > >Sincerely, >Ches >aka Chiara Francesca >Steward of Coronation XL >http://www.io.com/~ches/coronation99 > >-----Original Message----- >From: Leslie Helms >To: lynoure@tuug.org ; h-costume@indra.com > >Date: Friday, January 08, 1999 8:51 PM >Subject: Re: H-COST: SCA garb list > > >: >:-Poster: Leslie Helms >: >:It appears that although the sca-garb list is still operating, the control >:functions are down and subscriptions can't be processed. Weird! They're >:trying to regroup. >: >:Leslie >: _________________________________________________________________ >: To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >: with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME >: > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 05:40:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA03695 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:40:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA15429; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 03:50:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA07362 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 03:48:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA07245 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 03:48:12 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LGAGa01222 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:46:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:46:51 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Flax Linen was re: HELP Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/6/99 4:48:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > Somehow a lot of confusion seems to have come up on this thread about > >the flax/linen issue. Flax is *never* the name of a cloth. > > I'm afraid that should read "should never be" not "is never". Some years > ago, I was working at House of Fabrics. We got a shipment of a new line of > fabric that was named "Flax". As I recall, it was a nice heavy 50/50/ > cotton/linen blend. Perhaps the poster saw some of this fabric for sale? > > Margo Back in the bad old days when Cloth World was polyester-city, I saw "linen- look" fabric (something poly/rayon I think) posted as linen. Scandalous. But I believe the subtle point was the flax is a plant, linen is a fabric. Curiously, wool is wool and cotton is cotton, but flax is linen. The remaining linguistic analysis is left as an exercise for the student. MaggiRos ~what, HER again? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 06:40:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA03891 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 06:40:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA16878; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 04:49:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA11808 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 04:47:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA11797 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 04:47:27 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id HBSJa25630 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 06:46:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 06:46:51 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/6/99 9:11:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, benrumson@worldnet.att.net writes: > > Marionetta@aol.com wrote: > > > I'd like these to be reasonably accurate and would like to use velveteen > since > > I've got a ton of black velveteen. But is cotton velveteen the right > thing to > > use? Or is nylon/rayon velvet more appropriate? (silk's outta price > range) > > Any tips on the best way to slash velvet? > > I'm certainly no expert but I did take a class at Costume College from > Mistress > Juliana who is (imo) an expert on German Ren. I wouldn't try to slash > velvet. If > you want slashed sleeves use a good felted wool. It won't ravel and velvet > will > ravel like crazy if you slash and not finish off the edges. > > CArolyn If you're going to slash anything (as opposed to making individual panes) best to cut to the bias (diagonal to the grain). Oh, it will ravel, but it will max out eventually. Depending on the persona, this can be a character defining moment in costume! I wouldn't slash velvet either. For Ren German, stick with wool for most things. For economy, I have used brushed denim --all cotton--which strikes me as an acceptable substitute for frieze. (I'd like to recommend no-wale corduroy, but I'm not willing to take the flak, plus it's nearly impossible to find anymore so never mind.) Cotton poplin works well too. Either is a serviceable, sturdy, workaday fabric suitable for plain working campfollowers who have a job to do. They also take cuttes, pinks, and slashes quite nicely. Yeah, they ravel. So? (oops, channelling Clara there for a second! Attitude adjustment ) If your German Ren persona is something rather more gently bred, fine wool is still reliable, and good cotton velvet is even better. The bands, on fine ladies, anyway seem to have been most often, but not exclusively, golden. Just as most //but not all// of the plackets in placket-front dresses were white. Just as not every dress was a placket front dress. There are LOTS of pictures to show you what kinds of brocade patterns are period. No little bitty milles-fleurs flowers or cabbage roses. In any case, modern silk velvet probably isn't much like 16th century silk velvet, so don't worry about that!. A heavy cotton velvet (the brand name DeBall is revered in my house) has the weight, the depth of colour, and the drape that I can see an 16th C. noblewoman finding to her taste. Some cotton/rayon velveteens are very fine indeed (M... M... damn, the manufacturer name has just gone out of my head!). I know budgets are always an issue, but try to keep some perspective. Create a persona who would wear what you can afford. MaggiRos ~and yes, Juliana is definitly THE German Ren expert. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 06:56:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA03944 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 06:56:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA17328; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:06:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA12340 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:04:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA12334 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:04:25 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id HZCKa03463 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 07:03:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3442ad45.369745a8@aol.com> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 07:03:52 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: field trip report and color question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com Responding as a stuffy purist... In a message dated 1/7/99 8:03:59 AM Pacific Standard Time, hope.greenberg@uvm.edu writes: > > 1) It's antique satin but with a fine weave--no nubblies. Not linen, > wool, or real silk, *sigh* though the black back makes it look > rather like shot silk. Is it an acceptable substitute for the > authenticity minded? No nubblies? It may very well be quite nice. However, I have learned my lesson about approving anything "over the phone". :) But I think I know what you mean, and suspect I'd say OK. Assuming you were waiting for my approval > > 2) The color: it is between plum-purple-taupe-grey, very subdued. I saw > several gowns in the above exhibit of the same or nearly the same color > but I don't know if this is a paint-only color or if there would have > been a dye color like this in the mid-15th century. Any ideas? > I've never been a big fan of this "paint only" idea. That's usually someone's way of excusing their own lack of care. Silk can take pretty much any color, in an astonishing range of shades. And if it were a portrait of ME, I'd expect the man to paint it as I wore it, dammit! I like that gown! But in any case, as you describe it, I see no reason why this should be thought of as a "made up " color. Still, as I say, I'm not convinced that any color in a painting was impossble to a dyer, or that any patron would want it to be. MaggiRos ~All my men wear a sword, or they wear nothing at all. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 07:04:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA03981 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 07:04:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA17520; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:14:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA12590 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:11:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA12584 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:11:55 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id FMJTa04794 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 07:10:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <94aa8e0.3697473d@aol.com> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 07:10:37 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/7/99 12:35:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: > > I usually cut slashes with an Exacto knife. Some people swear by rotary > cutters. For small cuttes I use a charp. No dragging against the fabric, Just a sharp bang, and voila! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 07:07:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA03994 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 07:07:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA17629; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:17:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA12719 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:15:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA12714 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 05:15:16 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id AHUa019752 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 07:14:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 07:14:31 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: foundation garments Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/7/99 1:22:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, ZBLGilbert@aol.com writes: > > My sense at the time was that women weren't supposed to "bounce." Firm > foundation garments prevented that. In addition, as I recall, my > girlfriends > and I thought that the social popularity of panty girdles was due to the > difficulty of hanky panky while wearing them. Not to mention that before pantyhose, you had to have some place to stick the "garters" that held up your stockings. MaggiRos class of '68 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 11:20:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04857 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:20:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA28064; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 09:30:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA25539 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 09:27:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA25532 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 09:27:36 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id JQJFa18627 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:26:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6312fb24.36978327@aol.com> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:26:15 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I have seen a female skeleton from the Mutter Museum (a medical museum) in Philadelphia that dates from late Victorian times. The ribcage is deformed from the tightness of the corsetry. This is the only example I have seen. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 12:21:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA05075 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 12:21:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA02032; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:31:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA00343 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:28:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA00334 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:28:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p43.directcon.net [206.170.184.92]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA15736 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 09:24:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 09:24:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901091724.JAA15736@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 13:13:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05241 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:13:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA05121; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:23:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA04654 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:21:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA04627 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:21:14 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id OPAVa23173 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:19:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:19:05 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com Robin -- I saw a portrait of Queen Elizabeth in a forest green gown at the "Treasure Houses of Britain" exhibit many years ago. At the time, I had some fairly heavy green changement taffeta that I wanted to make into an Elizabethan gown, but I had been cautioned about the color green. I figured, after seeing the portrait, that if it was good enough for Queen Elizabeth, it was good enough for me! Kathleen Norvell (Alyson of Islay, OL) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 13:23:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05275 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:23:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA05730; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:33:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA05431 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:31:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from send105.yahoomail.com (send105.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.128]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id LAA05426 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:31:17 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990109183302.18994.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com> Received: from [153.35.253.196] by send105.yahoomail.com; Sat, 09 Jan 1999 10:33:02 PST Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:33:02 -0800 (PST) From: "Kristen M. Sieber" Subject: H-COST: Crochet hook To: Historic Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" I do not crochet, but my mother has been kind enough to agree to crochet me a snood. The pattern calls for a #9 hook but all the hooks she has have letter indicators. Is there a corresponding leeter/number or should she just buy a new hook? kristen M. Sieber lady_gawain@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 13:26:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05288 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:26:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA05866; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:35:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA05634 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:33:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from send103.yahoomail.com (send103.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.92]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id LAA05621 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:33:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990109183505.5846.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Received: from [153.35.253.196] by send103.yahoomail.com; Sat, 09 Jan 1999 10:35:04 PST Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:35:04 -0800 (PST) From: "Kristen M. Sieber" Subject: H-COST: Whoops To: Historic Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" The crochet hook question was supposed to go to h-needlework, but if you have an answer, I'll take it! Kristen M. Sieber lady_gawain@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 9 14:57:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05604 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:57:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA11639; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:06:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA13398 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:04:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA13385 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:04:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.101] (sdts10-15.znet.net [207.167.66.15]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id MAA04154 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 12:04:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 12:04:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: Marionetta@aol.com >I'd like these to be reasonably accurate and would like to use velveteen since >I've got a ton of black velveteen. But is cotton velveteen the right thing to >use? Or is nylon/rayon velvet more appropriate? (silk's outta price range) I don't think the modern nylon/rayon or even the silk/acetate velvets are thick enough to replicate 16th c velvet. IMHO, the most appropriate velvets are ones that are so thick in the pile that they have no nap. Many of the heavy cotton velvets are pretty good, but my favorite is a 100% cotton velvet that I get a yardage city. Its very plush. A matinee' velvet can also be good (cotton/sythetic blend). I personally don't like velveteen because the nap wears off easier than the velvets over time, but its better IMHO than the rayon or silk velvets with the thin pile. >Any tips on the best way to slash velvet? If I'm going to slash velvet, I prefer to use a heavy cotton apholstery velvet with a rubberized backing. But I'll only use that for slashed banding or small areas because the rubberized backing makes it too hot. Some velvet takes pinking well (slashes less than 1" or so), but most won't take slashes longer than that without looking cheap. The backing is usually not strong enough and the slashes won't hold out in nice period looking arcs, but will crumple. I don't like to do bonded interfacings/backings because even then they tend to roll over a bit and you can see the interfacing. If you want slashes longer than 1" of velvet, I recommend biting the bullet and sewing them into lined panes (sew them into tubes or bag line each pane) and attaching them individually. If you don't want to go through the work, then use the velvet as base fabric and apply slashed bands of wool or leather over the top. >Brocade is often mentioned as being >used in the plastron, but none of the illustrations I've seen are very clear >on what this brocade looks like, any hints on the types of modern brocades >that might work for this? If you are making a Cranach-style with an open front, then the plastron (or placket) is usually, but not always white and there is a band of brocade with pearl embroidery along the top which is about 3"-5" wide. I suggest having it scale to the size of your bustline (wider the larger busted you are). The pearl embroidery is done over the top of gold brocade, but the pearled pattern never matches the brocade pattern. Be sure your lacing doesn't go over the decorated band. The lacing is always zig-zag or straight across lacing, never cross-lacing. The lacing holes, or loops are placed inside the edge of the bodice so they are invisible. Many German bodices do not have plackets and I suggest that you try one of those before going for a placket-front style. Hooks and eyes should be used to attach the bodice to the decorated band of the plastron to keep it tight. I suggest color on color damask brocades as Maggie described. >I'm assuming the >puffs/undersleeves should be a light weight white cotton fabric, like batiste, >is this right? I've got an Elizabethan corset (a la hunniset) will this work >for German Ren? Or do I even need one...? Puffs at the elbow and armscye are often the shift puffed through, but other puffing in the sleeve is usually applied false puffing. The higher class you are, the less likely your puffing will be the shift. In lower class women, most of the puffing is the shift puffed through. If you are a large woman, I highly recommend some kind of corselet or support built into the bodice. It should not be cone-shaped like Elizabethan, but preferably keeps your natural curves. The placket front bodice will look really bad if you are a woman of substance and do not use support. The plastron should have some support as well. I've seen Victorian corsets used and they actually look much better than Elizabethan ones. The tricky part of the Cranach dress is that the skirt is always done as organ-pipe pleating, knife pleating or box pleating. Don't cartridge pleat it. The opening of the skirt should be in the side front along one side of the bodice edge. The skirt is attached to a band or ribbon then basted inside the bodice and placket. The placket must have some hooks and eyes near the skirt as well. I'll look for some hat instructions in some of my private posts later. Gotta go. Check out my web site: http://www.znet.com/~savaskan/germans Julie Adams aka Meisterin Julianna _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 03:30:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA14954 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 03:30:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA06303; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:40:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA06131 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:38:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from send103.yahoomail.com (send103.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.92]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id LAA06124 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:38:28 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990109184007.8488.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Received: from [153.35.253.196] by send103.yahoomail.com; Sat, 09 Jan 1999 10:40:07 PST Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:40:07 -0800 (PST) From: "Kristen M. Sieber" Subject: H-COST: Side lacing To: Historic Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" When putting side lacings in a cotehardie/kirtle/or whatever it's called, how far down the waist/hip does the opening go? _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 03:31:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA14961 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 03:31:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA06356; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:41:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA06201 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:39:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from send1e.yahoomail.com (send1e.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.64]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id LAA06196 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:39:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990109183427.10216.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Received: from [153.35.253.196] by send1e; Sat, 09 Jan 1999 10:34:27 PST Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:34:27 -0800 (PST) From: "Kristen M. Sieber" Subject: H-COST: Side lacing To: Historic Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" Sorry, forgot to sign this. When putting side lacings in a cotehardie/kirtle/or whatever it's called, how far down the waist/hip does the opening go? == Morgaine of Glastonbury MKA Kristen Morgaine Sieber lady_gawain@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 03:39:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA14989 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 03:39:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA23676; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:10:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA28054 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:08:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA28047 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:08:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.235] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zzEyj-00030u-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 23:08:05 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990109223355.00bb33a0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 22:36:50 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: thimbles, size 8 In-Reply-To: <199901081706.MAA14249@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> References: <000201be38f0$c4b5ae20$5d14ffd0@default> <19990104215618.25469.qmail@www0r.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Second-does anyone know of a place to order or buy thimbles by size. >I need a size 8 for my mother-in-law. > >Thank you list for your help. >p. Try Lacis. I got one in a size 12 to accommodate a lump on my thimble-finger, so you should have no trouble at all. Lacis has a web site (www.lacis.com???) and they mail order. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 03:43:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA15005 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 03:43:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA23664; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:10:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA28039 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:08:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA28032 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:08:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.235] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zzEyd-00030u-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 23:08:00 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990109222426.00b9e260@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 22:25:03 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? In-Reply-To: <95aa8a9f.369631a2@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows My guess is that she hasn't stopped growing either. >I have a 15 year old daughter that I just made an Elizabethan corset for, and >her un-corseted bust and waist measurements are 34" and 21", respectively, and >no, she definately does NOT have any kind of eating disorder...... > > > > >I don't think I was ever that tiny after about the age of 8, so she must be a >throwback to an earlier generation of willowy women..... > >Jane > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 03:44:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA15012 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 03:44:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA00899; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 17:46:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA03841 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 17:44:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA03831 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 17:44:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.128]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id QAA07379; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 16:44:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id QAA05612; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 16:44:23 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAuAhUAjot75ePtfuqSDSRvGG/KeoJYw6wCFQC68sqK1BvV2NQ8Cf5fsQ+FG+xmTg== From: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 17:44:23 -0700 (MST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Crochet hook Message-ID: <9452-3697F7E7-697@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: "Kristen M. Sieber" 's message of Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:33:02 -0800 (PST) Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Having crocheted for years, I have some experience in the numbering. Hooks with B, C, D on up are used for wools and corser material. Hooks with 00, 00 thru 16 (think miniatures) are used for thread crochet. I believe the cross over in hook sizes is B/0 and C/00. What your mom needs is the steel hooks not the aluminum or plastic. Hope this helps. Starsinger _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 03:46:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA15022 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 03:46:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA15567; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:11:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA18405 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:08:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA18396 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:08:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([12.66.4.230]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP id <19990109210813.GVJR21411@LOCALNAME>; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 21:08:13 +0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Connie Carroll" Organization: Home For Deranged Bunnies To: lady_gawain@yahoo.com Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 16:06:27 +0000 Subject: Re: H-COST: Crochet hook CC: h-costume@indra.com Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.30) Message-Id: <19990109210813.GVJR21411@LOCALNAME> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Connie Carroll" Kristen, Saw you message.I'm a crocheter and I'm afriad you'll need to buy a #9 hook. The lettered hooks, some of which claim they corrspond to the numbers don't really. I've never found them to. I own a collection of both and I recommend buying a #9 steel hook. They only cost about $1 at Walmart or Michaels. Kassandra NickKraken > -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" > > I do not crochet, but my mother has been kind enough to agree to > crochet me a snood. The pattern calls for a #9 hook but all the > hooks she has have letter indicators. Is there a corresponding > leeter/number or should she just buy a new hook? > > kristen M. Sieber > lady_gawain@yahoo.com JUST CALL ME MISTRESS BUNNY _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 03:47:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA15029 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 03:47:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA23695; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:10:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA28065 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:08:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA28057 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:08:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.235] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zzEyk-00030u-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 23:08:07 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990109223726.00bb85e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 22:38:20 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <199901081706.MAA14261@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> References: <4.1.19990107153012.009198e0@mail.tmsonline.com> <36950228.CA5F7EA@best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Fascinating. And you have measured her at this small corseted size? I'm impressed. >Our Maggie is 15 years old. She is 6 ft. tall. She also weighs about >119 on a good day. She is not anorexic-she eats like mad but she just >came like that (built like her dad, certainly not moi!) She can >easily corset down to 15 or 16 inches. When we were walking through >the Nicholas and Alexandria exhibit her favorite game was "Mom, >could I wear that?" The waists on these actual garments were tiny and >though they would have been too short for her she loved thinking that >she could squiggle into the tiny waists. I would guess that there >were large variations in size as today with the tiny waist being the >goal. >p. > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 03:48:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA15036 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 03:48:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA08240; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 19:39:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA11533 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 19:36:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (root@jefferson.patriot.net [206.151.9.249]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA11524 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 19:36:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.151.9.30] (th-0-21.patriot.net [206.151.9.30]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA10362 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 21:32:24 -0500 Message-Id: <199901100232.VAA10362@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Date: Sat, 9 Jan 99 21:36:13 -0500 x-sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hope Greenberg wrote about Greensleeves, >And where in the world >did the notion that this is about a prostitute come from? Researching >that tradition would probably be more fun than the song itself. Mary >Magdalen is often, but not always, pictured in green (and carrying that >neat little jar and usually wearing interesting headgear) but so are >several of the women saints so I don't think that helps. The idea that Mary Magdalen was a prostitute is actually combining her life story with that of other women, some of whom were prostitutes. A good book is _Mary Magdalen: Myth and Metaphor_, (sorry I forget the author) which separates the myths. Magdalen's "truth" is that she knew Jesus (she was practically an apostle). After His death, she became a hermit in the desert, and her hair grew to such an extent as to hide her nakedness. (that's a rather non-costume connection!) Hope's point make's sense as the green dress images may have been painted at a time when Magdalen was thought to be a prostitute. Her distinguishing characteristic, however, is her long hair. Is the interesting headgear arrangement of a great quantity of hair? Myths die hard, whether it's the reputation of saints or beliefs about costume! -Carol Kocian _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 03:49:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA15043 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 03:49:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA23713; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:10:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA28089 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:08:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA28072 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:08:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.235] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zzEyp-00030u-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 23:08:12 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990109224822.00bb7c20@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 23:00:31 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: field trip report and color question In-Reply-To: <3442ad45.369745a8@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >> but I don't know if this is a paint-only color or if there would have >> been a dye color like this in the mid-15th century. Any ideas? >> > >I've never been a big fan of this "paint only" idea. That's usually someone's >way of excusing their own lack of care. Silk can take pretty much any color, >in an astonishing range of shades. And if it were a portrait of ME, I'd >expect the man to paint it as I wore it, dammit! I like that gown! The 'paint only' idea makes sense when the artist (Medieval) is illuminating a manuscript from memory, has a limited palate to work from, and uses his colours pure without mixing. Some of their illos are very cartoony and not very believable for actual fabric colour. The silk-like reds and blues they used for painting wool garments, which don't take dye like silk does, are what I would mean by 'paint only' colours. But after the Flemmish painters (and others) had introduced the kind of painting where they were looking at real things and painting them as they saw them, I agree with you. The palate was larger by then, if only by mixing. But the Medieval illuminaters mostly didn't do portraits from life anyway. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 04:01:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA15089 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 04:01:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA07267; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 19:28:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA10870 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 19:26:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from ms1.dgsys.com (ms1.dgsys.com [204.97.64.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA10862 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 19:26:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from dgs.dgsys.com (robin@hme-dgs.dgsys.com [207.154.14.2]) by ms1.dgsys.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA03548 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 21:26:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by dgs.dgsys.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA09366 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 21:26:08 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: dgs.dgsys.com: robin owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 21:26:08 -0500 (EST) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Pigments, dyes, and the accuracy of paintings (was: color question) In-Reply-To: <3442ad45.369745a8@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Sat, 9 Jan 1999 MaggiRos@aol.com wrote: > > 2) The color: it is between plum-purple-taupe-grey, very subdued. I saw > > several gowns in the above exhibit of the same or nearly the same color > > but I don't know if this is a paint-only color or if there would have > > been a dye color like this in the mid-15th century. Any ideas? > > I've never been a big fan of this "paint only" idea. That's usually someone's > way of excusing their own lack of care. Silk can take pretty much any color, > in an astonishing range of shades. And if it were a portrait of ME, I'd > expect the man to paint it as I wore it, dammit! I like that gown! > ... I'm not convinced that any > color in a painting was impossble to a dyer, or that any patron would want it > to be. I can't speak authoritatively to the color in the specific painting described (offhand, it sounds workable to me), but I can vouch for the fact that certain colors that were available in pigments did not exist as dyes, and yet these colors were still frequently used to depict clothing in paintings, at least through the 15th century. The obvious example is ultramarine blue, which is made into paint by grinding a mineral into dust and mixing it with a binder to lay it on the paper -- a process that cannot be used to dye fabric. I am not a dyer, but people who have made medieval dyes their specialty have assured me that there is no dye equivalent for ultramarine blue. That means that, say, those bright blue gowns in the Tres Riches Heures do not represent anything that existed in life, and in looking at these sources, we need to readjust our eye to allow for the change in palette. As to why patrons would want artists to use a nonexistent color to depict clothing, we need to remember that the purpose of portraiture was, for a long time, not the same as it is today. Many depictions in panel and manuscript paintings did not have the primary purpose of providing an accurate visual representation of the individual. (The same is true of donor images in stained glass and other media, and effigy images in alabasters and monumental brasses.) Many of the artist's (and patron's) choices may may have been intended to designate the importance, wealth, or social status of the person. Michael Baxandall, in _Painting and Experience in Fifteenth-Century Italy_, provides some excellent examples of the symbolic use of pigment based on written contracts between patrons and painters. I will type in one longish passage below because it's too good not to share (typos are mine): "Ghirlandaio's contract insists on the painter using a good quality of colours and particularly of ultramarine. The contracts' general anxiety about the quality of blue pigment as well as of gold was reasonable. After gold and silver, ultramarine was the most expensive and difficult colour the painter used. There were cheap and dear grades and there were even cheaper substitutes, generally referred to as German blue. (Ultramarine was made from powdered lapis lazuli expensively imported from the Levant; the powder was soaked several times to draw off the colour and the first yield -- a rich violet blue -- was the best and most expensive. German blue was just carbonate of copper; it was less splendid in its colour and, much more seriously, unstable in use, particularly in fresco.) To avoid being let down about blues, clients specified ultramarine; more prudent clients stipulated a particular grade -- ultramarine at one or two or four florins an ounce. The painters and their public were alert to all this, and the exotic and dangerous character of ultramarine was a means of accent that we, for whom dark blue is probably no more striking than scarlet or vermilion, are liable to miss. We can follow well enough when it is used simply to pick out the principal figure of Christ or Mary in a biblical scene, but the interesting uses are more subtle than this. In Sassetta's panel of _St. Frances Renouncing His Heritage_ in [London's] National Gallery, the gown St. Francis discards is an ultramarine gown. In Masaccio's expensively pigmented _Crucifixion,_ the vital narrative gesture of St. John's right arm is an ultramarine gesture. And so on. Even beyond this the contracts point to a sophistication about blues, a capacity to discriminate between one and another, with which our own culture does not equip us. In 1408 Gherardo Starnina contracted to paint in S. Stefano at Empoli frescoes, now lost, of the _Life of the Virgin._ The contract is meticulous about blue: the ultramarine used for Mary is to be of the quality of two florins to the ounce, while for the rest of the picture ultramarine at one florin to the ounce will do. Importance is registered with a violet tinge." Baxandall goes on to note that the emphasis on gold and ultramarine in painting declined by the latter half of the century for a variety of reasons (and he includes some good costume anecdotes), but the point remains that people clearly placed value on certain pigments for reasons other than their ability to accurately reproduce real clothing. I would guess that the Limbourg brothers had specific reasons for painting the Duc of Berry in ultramarine (and using the color so liberally throughout the books they made in his employ), just as Marie de Gueldre knew exactly what she was doing when she had herself painted in a stylish houppelande that just happened to be Virgin-blue (in a portrait full of other iconographic details typically reserved for Annunciation portraits of the Virgin). Many other pigments were also derived from methods that could not be used to produce dye, so if the same color was achievable in dye, that was happy coincidence. For that reason I generally assume that the exact shades of colors in paintings are suspect unless proven otherwise -- though in the case of later paintings, as portraiture for its own sake became more common, I'm more inclined to assume that there's at least a passing resemblance between fabric and canvas. For an accurate representation of available dye colors, particularly 15th-century and earlier, I usually rely on extant textiles, tapestries, and embroideries, which by definition use colors that were available in dyes. Seeing them in person is best, and if you can get permission to see something up close, you can look at the fibers in turned edges or covered by other threads that have otherwise been protected from fading. (In general, I find it's worth remembering that it was relatively easy for painters and other artists to put trim, jewels, stripes, patterns, etc. on depictions of clothing, compared with the expense and physical considerations of doing the same on real garments. For instance, I've made a hobby of looking for evidence of jeweled hems in artwork (pre-Elizabethan or so), and so far I've only seen them on such figures as angels, saints, goddesses, and fantasy figures. There's a splendid _Last Judgment_ by Jan Provoost in the Groening Museum in Bruges, in which the souls lined up to go to heaven are being issued plain white robes -- with jeweled hems. Once I started seeing jeweled hems as a clue for the viewer, I found it helped with my readings of some more ambiguous works, such as the Lady with the Unicorn tapestries. But that's another lecture. Differentiating the real from the unreal is my favorite teaching theme.) --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 12:00:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16688 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:00:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA18214; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:10:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA21604 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:07:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA21594 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:07:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA23167 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 09:59:12 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 09:59:08 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations/Mary magdalene In-Reply-To: <199901100232.VAA10362@jefferson.patriot.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > -Poster: > The idea that Mary Magdalen was a prostitute is actually combining > her life story with that of other women, some of whom were prostitutes. A > good book is _Mary Magdalen: Myth and Metaphor_, (sorry I forget the > author) which separates the myths. Magdalen's "truth" is that she knew > Jesus (she was practically an apostle). After His death, she became a > hermit in the desert, and her hair grew to such an extent as to hide her > nakedness. (that's a rather non-costume connection!) Then where did the story in the Bible come from if she wasnt a prostitute? Why were they trying to stone her to death and why did Jesus tell her to go and sin no more, or whatever it was? Sylvia R _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 12:23:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16794 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:23:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA19455; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:33:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA23273 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:30:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA23267 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:30:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from clough (207-172-41-127.s127.tnt10.brd.erols.com [207.172.41.127]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA15529 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:30:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:30:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901101730.MAA15529@smtp1.erols.com> X-Sender: clough@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda and Larry Clough Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations/Mary magdalene Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough At 09:59 AM 1/10/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > >> -Poster: >> The idea that Mary Magdalen was a prostitute is actually combining >> her life story with that of other women, some of whom were prostitutes. A >> good book is _Mary Magdalen: Myth and Metaphor_, (sorry I forget the >> author) which separates the myths. Magdalen's "truth" is that she knew >> Jesus (she was practically an apostle). After His death, she became a >> hermit in the desert, and her hair grew to such an extent as to hide her >> nakedness. (that's a rather non-costume connection!) > >Then where did the story in the Bible come from if she wasnt a prostitute? >Why were they trying to stone her to death and why did Jesus tell her to >go and sin no more, or whatever it was? > >Sylvia R > That was "the woman taken in adultery," who is not named in any way. There is also Mary sister of Martha and Lazarus, and Mary Magdalen, the jazzy liver who repented and crashed a dinner party so as to pour a jar of expensive ointment over Jesus's feet. Tradition says all three of these ladies are the same person, but this isn't supported by the Bible, and you could just as well assume they were three separate persons. Brenda -- Brenda Clough, author of HOW LIKE A GOD, a science fiction novel from Tor Books _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 12:46:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16887 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:46:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA20846; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:57:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA25101 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:54:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA25095 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:54:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.202.189.151] (ppp-151.pm4-1.grin.net [208.202.189.151]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09157 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 09:54:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990107165438.00b8c5e0@pop.slip.net> References: <3694C347.F46BBBE5@nash.tds.net> <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> <4.1.19990106232920.00b96100@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:02:33 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@grin.net Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >I own an 1898 bodice which is so small that the smaller of my daughters >couldn't wear it after she was about 5 or 6 (I tried it on her once about >then). The waist is about 22" measured by the waist band, hook to eye. >And I have looked at the waist measurements of the garments in Nancy >Bradfield's Costume In Detail, which go back to the 1700's. > >I believe 22"-teensy, I just don't believe 15"-teensy. If this were >anything like common I would expect to encounter more teensy-waist antique >garments in collections. I have seen none. Has anyone else on this list? >(real question here, not rhetorical - I really want to know) I'm 5 foot 1 inch tall. From about age 11 until i got pregnant at age 30, i weighed 97 pounds and had no eating disorders-i loved ice cream and cheeses, besides healthful vegetables. My natural measurements were 36-22-36 inches, with a 32 inch back and narrow shoulders. I fit into a number of vintage garments from around either side of the turn of the century (19th to 20th, that is) without corseting. Fitting into modern clothes, however, wasn't always easy, since they're designed for less of a difference between bust and waist or waist and hips (while bust and hips are usually standardized as being pretty close to the same measurement). I was thin, though, and while i might have been able to lace myself down a few inches (i'd guess 4, since i don't mind very tight lacing), i don't think i could have tight-laced myself down a full 7 inches. However, if one looks carefully at late-19th century photos of women with amazingly tiny waists, one can see that many photos have been retouched. They could paint on the pictures even then, often hand-coloring them, and they could touch-up photo images, as well. Thus often the claims of these women (usually, uh, "artistes") to astonishingly tiny waists were more "bragging" than real. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 13:48:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA17106 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:48:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA25613; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:58:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA29836 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:55:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA29829 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:55:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA20015 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:55:32 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp181-15.worldonline.nl [195.241.181.15]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA07919 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:55:14 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199901101855.TAA07919@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: color question and portraits Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:56:57 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi all, Kayta wrote: > The 'paint only' idea makes sense when the artist (Medieval) is > illuminating a manuscript from memory, has a limited palate to work from, > and uses his colours pure without mixing. Some of their illos are very > cartoony and not very believable for actual fabric colour. The silk-like > reds and blues they used for painting wool garments, which don't take dye > like silk does, are what I would mean by 'paint only' colours. > Indeed, you should never take the colours in miniatures as the 100 % authentic real colours of the costumes represented. They might be, however, the nearest the artist could get. A lot of these pictures had symbolical or biblical themes anyway and costume for these themes was more or less stylised. Old testament persons wore a kind of carnavalesk costume with lots of pointy hats (Jew-hats), the new testament pictures had sort of toga's for the disciples and a lot of byzantine-like liturgical clothing up to ca 1300, in classical illustration there was a of gold armour, etc. Only when there are soldiers, peasants and burghers depicted you can get close to the costume of the day. And sometimes portraits of contemporary persons (mostly princes) are meant to be represented... (see below). The farther you get into the middle ages the richer the palette became, the richer the patron the more colours the artist would be able to use. Painters have always mixed colours, but some mixed them more than others. Around 1300 there was a rule which has kept on until the late 15th c-early 16th c; there is a middle colour, most of the time the pure pigment and binder, a darker one; the pure colour mixed with black for the shadow, and a lighter one mixed with white for the lights, with pure white for the high-lights. > But after the Flemish painters (and others) had introduced the kind of > painting where they were looking at real things and painting them as they > saw them, I agree with you. The palette was larger by then, if only by > mixing. But the Medieval illuminaters mostly didn't do portraits from life > anyway. Already in the 9th c there are portraits of several emperors and kings of the Karolingian line which look pretty realistic. There are also some very small inked portraits of Egbert, bishop of Trier in two very different books which both show that he was cross-eyed. But I give you; real portraits in painting only started in about the second quarter of the 14th c, although sculpture of the 12th and 13th c already show some remarkable portraits of kings, queens and nobles. The miniatures of the late 14th to all of the 15th c are very rich in very realistic portraits. Hope this helps, Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 14:09:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17179 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:09:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA27039; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:20:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA01863 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:17:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA01854; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:17:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-79-143.s143.tnt5.rcm.erols.com [207.172.79.143]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA07421; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:21:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000801be3ccd$dfde4280$8f4faccf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: "Costume DC" Subject: H-COST: Williamsburg Festival Week Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:11:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" Williamsburg (Virginia) Festival Week is February 25-28, 1999 There are four shows that go on at the same time: Mid Atlantic Quilt Festival X Mid Atlantic Wearable Art Festival V Williamsburg Vintage Fashion & Accessories Show V (opens Feb. 26) Mid Atlantic Fiber Art Fair III (opens Feb. 26) Detailed information can be found at: http://www.quiltfest.com/wfw/wfwhome.htm I have gone to this festival for the past two years and had a blast. I have also had the opportunity to meet many people from email lists. So if you are going let me know. I will be there the 27-28. On my website I have pictures from the Wearable Arts Show at http://www.costumegallery.com/Hoffman/Challenge.html Make sure to click on the garments to see details of that item. Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 15:45:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17508 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 15:45:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA04567; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:56:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA09658 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:53:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA09653 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:53:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.134] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zzRr6-0000KZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:53:05 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:53:33 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990107165438.00b8c5e0@pop.slip.net> <3694C347.F46BBBE5@nash.tds.net> <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> <4.1.19990106232920.00b96100@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 10:02 AM 1/10/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: lilinah@grin.net > >Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >> >>I own an 1898 bodice which is so small that the smaller of my daughters >>couldn't wear it after she was about 5 or 6 (I tried it on her once about >>then). The waist is about 22" measured by the waist band, hook to eye. >>And I have looked at the waist measurements of the garments in Nancy >>Bradfield's Costume In Detail, which go back to the 1700's. >> >>I believe 22"-teensy, I just don't believe 15"-teensy. If this were >>anything like common I would expect to encounter more teensy-waist antique >>garments in collections. I have seen none. Has anyone else on this list? >>(real question here, not rhetorical - I really want to know) I'm not sure whether it was Carolyn or Lilinah who wrote the I don't believe paragraph above. My maternal grandmother grew up just after that time. Like the Chinese binding of feet, the ladies in the South at least were laced into their corsets so tightly sometimes that their ribs started to misplace and overlap. My grandmother's aunt tried to do it to her when my grandmother was a young woman, and my grandmother, being in pain and being rather strongwilled, cut the ties that bound her in and refused to wear the device again. But many women, then as now, went with the fashionable, not what would have been healthy/comforbable. Carol Cannon, repeating to you what my maternal grandmother told me when I was myself a child _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 19:06:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18267 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:06:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA18554; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:15:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA26059 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:12:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA26046 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from gia-g (dialup718.serv.net [207.207.65.82]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA01623 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:11:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <040e01be3cf7$7dc7fe40$5241cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: "Costume List" Subject: H-COST: successful Candle wax removal Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:11:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" A success story from me, finally! At a feast this December I accidentally dragged my white chemise sleeve through the green candle not only putting it out, but smearing a goodly amount into the material! Alas! Woe! But H-Costume to the rescue! It just happened that a few days after I done the deed, the list started to post remedies for this laundering challenge. I stuck the chemise out in the garage in my large freezer. My good husband woke me up at midnite to ask me if I wanted the chemise in the freezer ( you should have *seen* the look on his face!!! *guffaw* It was worth him waking me up; if I hadn't been so sleepy I would have laughed right then and there. But I digress) I explained to him that one of the ladies of the H-list said to put the garment in the freezer and then scrape off as much as you could; and another lady of the list said to put the waxy part over steam and then the rest will melt off and then launder. And I went back to sleep... Bless his heart...he did both for me so when I woke up the next morning the candle wax was not only gone but I had to *really* search to find which sleeve had the wax on it! Bless you all for all your help over the year! You have been an fount of information and inspiration. Gia/Giacinta costuming nut _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 19:16:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18315 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:16:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA19943; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:26:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA27342 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:23:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop.idsi.net (root@pop.idsi.net [208.195.228.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA27335 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:23:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from chanty (16-ta04wf.idsi.net [208.201.30.118]) by pop.idsi.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id TAA23313 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:23:05 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990110192328.00935850@pop.idsi.net> X-Sender: chanty@pop.idsi.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:23:50 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chantal Pecourt Subject: Re: H-COST: successful Candle wax removal In-Reply-To: <040e01be3cf7$7dc7fe40$5241cfcf@gia-g> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Chantal Pecourt You can also place a paper bag under and over the spot and iron it with a low iron. Works wonders Chantal At 04:11 PM 1/10/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" > >A success story from me, finally! > >At a feast this December I accidentally dragged my white chemise sleeve >through the green candle not only putting it out, but smearing a goodly >amount into the material! > >Alas! Woe! > >But H-Costume to the rescue! It just happened that a few days after I done >the deed, the list started to post remedies for this laundering challenge. > >I stuck the chemise out in the garage in my large freezer. My good husband >woke me up at midnite to ask me if I wanted the chemise in the freezer ( you >should have *seen* the look on his face!!! *guffaw* It was worth him waking >me up; if I hadn't been so sleepy I would have laughed right then and there. >But I digress) > >I explained to him that one of the ladies of the H-list said to put the >garment in the freezer and then scrape off as much as you could; and another >lady of the list said to put the waxy part over steam and then the rest will >melt off and then launder. And I went back to sleep... > >Bless his heart...he did both for me so when I woke up the next morning the >candle wax was not only gone but I had to *really* search to find which >sleeve had the wax on it! > >Bless you all for all your help over the year! You have been an fount of >information and inspiration. > >Gia/Giacinta >costuming nut > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 19:20:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18334 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:20:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA20449; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:31:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA27672 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:27:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from web312.yahoomail.com (web312.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.108]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id RAA27666 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:27:57 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990111002804.278.rocketmail@web312.yahoomail.com> Received: from [129.237.24.130] by web312.yahoomail.com; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:28:04 PST Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:28:04 -0800 (PST) From: Margretta de Subject: Re: H-COST: Side lacing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margretta de > -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" > > When putting side lacings in a cotehardie/kirtle/or > whatever it's called, how far down the waist/hip does > the opening go? Probably to the widest point of your hip, the idea being that it should be tight to the body from there upwards. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 19:54:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18458 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:54:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA22619; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:04:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA00501 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:01:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from web306.yahoomail.com (web306.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.188]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id SAA00495 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:01:02 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990111010117.22815.rocketmail@web306.yahoomail.com> Received: from [129.237.24.130] by web306.yahoomail.com; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:01:17 PST Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:01:17 -0800 (PST) From: Margretta de Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margretta de > -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com > > I usually cut slashes with an Exacto knife. Some > > people swear by rotary cutters. > For small cuttes I use a charp. No dragging against > the fabric, Just a sharp bang, and voila! I just wanted to note that I read once that it was common to treat the line to be slashed with wax, then cut down the middle, reducing fraying. == Margretta de Vries _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 20:32:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18593 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:32:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA25055; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:42:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA03642 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:39:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from web311.yahoomail.com (web311.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.107]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id SAA03629 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:39:37 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990111013944.8643.rocketmail@web311.yahoomail.com> Received: from [129.237.24.130] by web311.yahoomail.com; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:39:44 PST Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:39:44 -0800 (PST) From: Margretta de Vries Subject: Re: H-COST: 10' Rule To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margretta de Vries > -Poster: Kent & Kat > I think so...I pay $1/yd for antique satin and the > most *I've* paid for fabric is $3/yd there. They > have broadcloth for $0.50/yd. > The other has upholstery fabric as well as the more > usual fabric one finds in a regular store. It also > has a bridal section, a button bin where I've found > good pewter buttons every visit They have a lot of > mill ends so what you encounter varies from visit to > visit although some things are 'normal' such as the > cotton velvet (yum...I need more money!). Wow, this sounds like a great place! Could you give an address and directions? == Margretta de Vries _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 21:00:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18702 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:00:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA27407; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA05875 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:07:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (tor-smtp1.netcom.ca [207.181.101.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA05870 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:07:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (trt-on23-30.netcom.ca [207.181.99.94]) by tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA05455 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:07:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001401be3d07$db9b3540$5e63b5cf@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: Subject: H-COST: Wax and Fraying Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:12:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" Margretta de Vries said: >I just wanted to note that I read once that it was common to treat the >line to be slashed with wax, then cut down the middle, reducing fraying. Janet Arnold talks about treating velvet edges on seams with wax to stop fraying. She mentions that the turned over edges on one extant garment still had waxy feeling stuff on them, blackened by the cut velvet pile. I had the initial impression that wax was applied after cutting, but it makes sense that one would apply it first. I have read somewhere that wardrobe accounts mention a special kind of wax used for this express purpose. Does anyone know its composition? What would be considered a mundane substitute? (New question) Susan Carrol-Clark asked a while ago about sourcing silk and linen thread (we are both Toronto/Ontario area), but I don't remember a response to her query. The linen thread I do know is available is a fairly coarse grade. Is there a good on-line source for notions of this nature? I am particularly interested because I have embarked on an A&S challenge (THE leather jerkin from Janet Arnold + relevant accessories) and I really want to do a good job on every detail. In fact, where can I source iron needles/authentic-style awls etc.? (New question again, I'll stop soon) 16th century period finishing techniques. I find it hard to tell from my sources exactly how garments were finished. I'll be discussing this as well with excellent costumers in my area; in the meantime, are there any good texts that lay this out? Stitching and finishing techniques seem to have different names in different books and different countries; I want to get things straight. Thank you! Eve Harris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 21:06:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18736 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:06:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA28537; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:16:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA06477 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:13:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA06462 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:13:13 -0700 (MST) From: ZBLGilbert@aol.com Received: from ZBLGilbert@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ARXPa05340 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:11:58 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:11:58 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ZBLGilbert@aol.com My copy of "Metropolitan Fashions of the 1880s: From the 1885 Butterick Catalog" shows the various patterns and lists the waist sizes available. For example, there is a pattern for No. 9712, the Ladies' Walking Skirt, ". . . in 9 sizes for ladies from 20 to 36 inches waist measure." All the patterns that list waist measurements generally show the same range. (For comparison, my new Laughing Moon 1909-1913 Day and Evening Dress pattern is available for waists 21 to 40 inches.) This suggests that the average woman who might buy patterns from Butterick in 1885 had a waist between 20 and 36 inches. I am far from an expert in any historical period at all, but this looks like good evidence that waists are about the same now as then. Does my logic need help? Is the Butterick reprint a poor source of information? Zelda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 22:42:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA19214 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:42:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA07738; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:52:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA14599 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:49:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA14584 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:49:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from vaxxine.com (ppp60.analg-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.212.158]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA27532 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:49:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36997036.C124E23A@vaxxine.com> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:29:58 -0600 From: Sheridan Alder X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: "Art of Manipulating Fabric" References: <9452-3697F7E7-697@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sheridan Alder Hello everyone: I was browsing in a bookstore yesterday, and came across the following "techniques-type" title which list members might find useful: Wolf, Colette. Art of Manipulating Fabric. Iola, Wisconsin: Krause Publishing. (Sorry, forgot to jot down the date of publication!) ISBN: 0-8019-8496-3 Krause Publishing 700 E. State St. Iola, WI (715) 445-2214 $ 38.95 Canadian. I didn't have time to study it (idiot girl forgot to turn off her headlights while grocery shopping and was putting in time until spouse arrived, jumper cables in hand, to rescue her in middle of yet ANOTHER snowstore!) but it appeared to be chock-a-block with information to achieve those funky little details original period garments boast. For example, the author gave instructions on how to do serpentine ruchings similar to those on 18th century gowns, not to mention more gathers, ruches, puckerings and pleatings than you could shake a stick at. It appeared to be directed to an audience of crafty-types or home decorators, rather than costumers (but as I said before, I whipped through, and scampered off back to the dead car, before I was throttled with the afore-mentioned jumper cables) but I was impressed with the impressive range and variety of effects the author covered. Dang, I've gone and talked myself into going back and buying it. Sheridan Alder _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 10 23:17:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA19418 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:17:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA10776; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:27:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA17766 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:24:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA17755 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:24:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.19] (sdts10-19.znet.net [207.167.66.19]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id UAA02111 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:24:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:24:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001401be3d07$db9b3540$5e63b5cf@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Wax and Fraying Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams While one can use a variety of things to prevent fraying, the thickness and body of the fabric is so important to the final look. Always do a test check before counting on it to look right. The problem with using wax to prevent fraying is that most modern velvets have too thin a base fabric and it does not usually have the body to support the slashes. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 00:28:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA20280 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 00:28:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA15942; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:39:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA24201 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:35:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA24178 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:35:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.235] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zza0x-0006AP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:35:47 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990110210904.00ba2240@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:11:43 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990107165438.00b8c5e0@pop.slip.net> <3694C347.F46BBBE5@nash.tds.net> <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> <4.1.19990106232920.00b96100@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows It's relatively easy to imagine you corseted down to 18", at least long enough to win a bet. It's the 15" thing I am still having trouble with. And yes, I have seen the retouched photos too. The only one I believe not to be retouched are the ones of Polaire, which you can see in a book called The Unfashionable Human Body. >I'm 5 foot 1 inch tall. From about age 11 until i got pregnant at age 30, i >weighed 97 pounds and had no eating disorders-i loved ice cream and >cheeses, besides healthful vegetables. My natural measurements were >36-22-36 inches, with a 32 inch back and narrow shoulders. I fit into a >number of vintage garments from around either side of the turn of the >century (19th to 20th, that is) without corseting. Fitting into modern >clothes, however, wasn't always easy, since they're designed for less of a >difference between bust and waist or waist and hips (while bust and hips >are usually standardized as being pretty close to the same measurement). I >was thin, though, and while i might have been able to lace myself down a >few inches (i'd guess 4, since i don't mind very tight lacing), i don't >think i could have tight-laced myself down a full 7 inches. > >However, if one looks carefully at late-19th century photos of women with >amazingly tiny waists, one can see that many photos have been retouched. >They could paint on the pictures even then, often hand-coloring them, and >they could touch-up photo images, as well. Thus often the claims of these >women (usually, uh, "artistes") to astonishingly tiny waists were more >"bragging" than real. > >Lilinah > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 00:28:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA20284 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 00:28:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA15959; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:39:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA24207 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:36:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA24194 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:35:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.235] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zza11-0006AP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:35:51 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990110211752.00ba7bd0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:30:39 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren In-Reply-To: <19990111010117.22815.rocketmail@web306.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I just wanted to note that I read once that it was common to treat the >line to be slashed with wax, then cut down the middle, reducing fraying. I refer to fraying as letting threads loose parallel to the cut edge. If you cut on the bias, the ends frizz a little but don't really fray. There's a Bronzino portrait in the Metropolitan Museum which occours in several costume books. It's of a guy wearing a slashed black doublet-thing with big sleeves. He has one hand on his hip and he looks straight out of the picture at you. When I saw that in person I got as close as I could talk the security guard into letting me get, and (bless him) Bronzino had painted the frizzed edges of the slashes! I took a couple of close-up pictures of the painting right under the subject's arm where this shows best as the doublet wraps around his ribs. Same frizzing on the sleeves. It really sticks out - maybe an eighth of an inch in a life-sized painting. I seem to recall Janet Arnold talking about a 'searing candle' used to deal with cut edges of velvet by waxing. This was along the cut edges of the velvet, not where it was slashed (no slashing on the garment). Very much like serging velvet today to get it to behave itself. It must have been done after the garment pieces were cut because there were loose bits of pile stuck in the wax. This is on one of the pairs of pluderhosen of the Sture family, either in the photo section or in the pattern section, I don't remember which. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 00:30:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA20294 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 00:30:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA15982; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:39:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA24208 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:36:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA24186 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:35:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.235] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zza0y-0006AP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:35:49 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990110211359.009efee0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:16:42 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990107165438.00b8c5e0@pop.slip.net> <3694C347.F46BBBE5@nash.tds.net> <36925029.D4CBB17B@best.com> <4.1.19990106232920.00b96100@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I wrote both of the >>> paragraphs below. And it's easy to believe 'waist-binding'. European foot binding is still practiced if you are female - compare a two-year-old child's foot with a "normal" pointey-toed woman's shoe to see what I mean. >>>I own an 1898 bodice which is so small that the smaller of my daughters >>>couldn't wear it after she was about 5 or 6 (I tried it on her once about >>>then). The waist is about 22" measured by the waist band, hook to eye. >>>And I have looked at the waist measurements of the garments in Nancy >>>Bradfield's Costume In Detail, which go back to the 1700's. >>> >>>I believe 22"-teensy, I just don't believe 15"-teensy. If this were >>>anything like common I would expect to encounter more teensy-waist antique >>>garments in collections. I have seen none. Has anyone else on this list? >>>(real question here, not rhetorical - I really want to know) > I'm not sure whether it was Carolyn or Lilinah who wrote the I >don't believe paragraph above. My maternal grandmother grew up just after >that time. Like the Chinese binding of feet, the ladies in the South at >least were laced into their corsets so tightly sometimes that their ribs >started to misplace and overlap. My grandmother's aunt tried to do it to >her when my grandmother was a young woman, and my grandmother, being in >pain and being rather strongwilled, cut the ties that bound her in and >refused to wear the device again. But many women, then as now, went with >the fashionable, not what would have been healthy/comforbable. Carol >Cannon, repeating to you what my maternal grandmother told me when I was >myself a child > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 00:30:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA20298 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 00:30:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA15986; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:39:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA24209 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:36:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA24202 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:35:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.235] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zza12-0006AP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:35:53 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990110213109.00b9b140@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:34:38 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Nothing wrong with your logic, but this does not prove that only full-grown women used the patterns. A couple of replies to my original post have referred to 15-year-olds with small waists I bet they didn't keep past 18. I am still waiting for actual measurements from someone. This question keeps coming up, and I would dearly love having hard evidence, if only to win bets with. >My copy of "Metropolitan Fashions of the 1880s: From the 1885 Butterick >Catalog" shows the various patterns and lists the waist sizes available. For >example, there is a pattern for No. 9712, the Ladies' Walking Skirt, ". . . in >9 sizes for ladies from 20 to 36 inches waist measure." All the patterns that >list waist measurements generally show the same range. (For comparison, my >new Laughing Moon 1909-1913 Day and Evening Dress pattern is available for >waists 21 to 40 inches.) This suggests that the average woman who might buy >patterns from Butterick in 1885 had a waist between 20 and 36 inches. I am >far from an expert in any historical period at all, but this looks like good >evidence that waists are about the same now as then. Does my logic need >help? Is the Butterick reprint a poor source of information? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 03:15:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA26838 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 03:14:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA25493; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:25:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA03170 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:22:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from titanium.sge.net (titanium.sge.net [152.91.9.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA03163 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:22:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by titanium.sge.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA18304 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:21:45 +1100 (EST) Received: from kryptonite.sge.net(10.1.2.11) by titanium.sge.net via smap (3.2) id xma018276; Mon, 11 Jan 99 19:21:27 +1100 Received: from amber. (ice-int2.sge.net [10.1.2.254]) by kryptonite.sge.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA11525 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:21:26 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199901110821.TAA11525@kryptonite.sge.net> From: WICKHAM Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:18:26 +1100 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: WICKHAM Raymond Two observations about the age concept > A couple of replies to my original post have > referred to 15-year-olds with small waists I bet they didn't keep past > 18. > The marriageable ie age when women would dress to impress was as low as twelve But also the women were in these garments during their formative growing years Just an illustration of the possibilities are the Javaese women with the extended necks (by rings) Sears mentions the change from corsetry to body braces with full body structure and posture control Ray _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 03:30:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA26892 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 03:30:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA25976; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:41:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA03871 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:37:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA03859 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:37:48 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip238.van19.pacifier.com [216.65.141.238]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA05267 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 00:37:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901110837.AAA05267@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 00:38:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Wax and Fraying Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001401be3d07$db9b3540$5e63b5cf@default> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > Janet Arnold talks about treating velvet edges on seams with wax to stop > fraying. She mentions that the turned over edges on one extant garment still > had waxy feeling stuff on them, blackened by the cut velvet pile. I had the > initial impression that wax was applied after cutting, but it makes sense > that one would apply it first. She also mentioned finding gum arabic at the edges in a lecture I went to. > I have read somewhere that wardrobe accounts mention a special kind of wax > used for this express purpose. Does anyone know its composition? What would > be considered a mundane substitute? I would think that they would have used bees wax, unless you are talking about 19th century when paraffin wax became available. The bees wax might be mixed with something (perhaps the gumarabic that J.A. mentioned or some other sort of resin.) An alternative might be to use fray check (try it on a sample first) or one of the ones which start out looking like white glue. Put it only on the back side, not the pile, and let it soak in, not just on the very surface. I've found this helpful when I don't want to have fraying in the slashing. Sometimes you want some fraying so that it shows more. I still have a late 16th Spanish coat which I remember spending a long period of time scraping at the slashing so that they would be visible. I've had it now for many years and it still looks like it did when we made it. It's also successfully been to my drycleaners at least 4 times. (The thing is so heavy that the first time I sent it they had to use 3 hangers taped together to hold it. Now I send it to the dry cleaners with the hanger with it so they don't have to go through that again.) > 16th century period finishing techniques. I find it hard to tell from my > sources exactly how garments were finished. I'll be discussing this as well > with excellent costumers in my area; in the meantime, are there any good > texts that lay this out? Stitching and finishing techniques seem to have > different names in different books and different countries; I want to get > things straight. Janet Arnold (Patterns of Fashion: 1560-1620) is probably the best source I know for that period's finishing techniques. The best thing is that it shows photographs of the seams so that you can see the stitching. No translation needed! For an earlier treatment of seams/finishing (which I find doesn't look that different from the Arnold stuff but is specifically discussed and diagrammed, unlike in the Arnold book) is the Museum of London's Finds from Medieval London series: Clothing and Textiles 1150-1450 (or something close to that.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 04:05:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA27011 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:05:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA28282; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:16:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA05295 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:13:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA05286 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:13:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([12.66.2.10]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP id <19990111091259.ESSF17623@LOCALNAME> for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:12:59 +0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Connie Carroll" Organization: Home For Deranged Bunnies To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:11:11 +0000 Subject: Re: H-COST: "Art of Manipulating Fabric" Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.30) Message-Id: <19990111091259.ESSF17623@LOCALNAME> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Connie Carroll" I vought my copy at Pennsic as did my freidn. It's a great book. Kassandra NickKraken > > -Poster: Sheridan Alder > > Hello everyone: > > I was browsing in a bookstore yesterday, and came across the > following "techniques-type" title which list members might find > useful: > > Wolf, Colette. Art of Manipulating Fabric. Iola, Wisconsin: Krause > Publishing. > (Sorry, forgot to jot down the date of publication!) ISBN: > 0-8019-8496-3 > > Krause Publishing > 700 E. State St. > Iola, WI > (715) 445-2214 > $ 38.95 Canadian. > > I didn't have time to study it (idiot girl forgot to turn off her > headlights while grocery shopping and was putting in time until > spouse arrived, jumper cables in hand, to rescue her in middle of > yet ANOTHER snowstore!) but it appeared to be chock-a-block with > information to achieve those funky little details original period > garments boast. For example, the author gave instructions on how to > do serpentine ruchings similar to those on 18th century gowns, not > to mention more gathers, ruches, puckerings and pleatings than you > could shake a stick at. > > It appeared to be directed to an audience of crafty-types or home > decorators, rather than costumers (but as I said before, I whipped > through, and scampered off back to the dead car, before I was > throttled with the afore-mentioned jumper cables) but I was > impressed with the impressive range and variety of effects the > author covered. > > Dang, I've gone and talked myself into going back and buying it. > > Sheridan Alder > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with > the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME JUST CALL ME MISTRESS BUNNY _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 04:37:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA27116 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:37:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA29243; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:47:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA06502 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA06496 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 02:43:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) id <01J6ERVVIR0G001UWU@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:45:55 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) with ESMTP id <01J6ERVV00NM001CKP@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:45:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.43); Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:43:55 +0000 (GMT0BST) Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.43); Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:43:42 +0000 (GMT0BST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:43:35 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: H-COST: Paint Colours v. Dye Colours (was field-trip report...) In-reply-to: <199901091215.FAA12728@indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <325504F2A5E@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Teddy > - -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com > > Responding as a stuffy purist... > > several gowns in the above exhibit of the same or nearly the same color > > but I don't know if this is a paint-only color or if there would have > > been a dye color like this in the mid-15th century. Any ideas? > > > I've never been a big fan of this "paint only" idea. That's usually > someone's way of excusing their own lack of care. Silk can take > pretty much any color, in an astonishing range of shades. And if it > were a portrait of ME, I'd expect the man to paint it as I wore it, > dammit! I like that gown! > > But in any case, as you describe it, I see no reason why this should > be thought of as a "made up " color. Still, as I say, I'm not > convinced that any color in a painting was impossble to a dyer, or > that any patron would want it to be. What she said. I'm sure *this* subject has come up on h-costume before too, but... I agree with MaggiRos on this one. A lot of the old arguements that the colour in a painting wouldn't indicate the colour of the actual garment doesn't really hold much water (especially in portraiture). To be fair, it is *possible* that the paint may have faded or changed over time. Perfectly reasonable, but to take an example of one of the arguements I've heard again and again... "Pink isn't a period colour, the pink of that garment was probably a *red* when it was painted..." Strangely enough, the people who trot out this one (and similar comments), don't have much of an answer when I reply, "Really? The fading's very *even* and why haven't the reds worn by other people in that painting faded to pink as well?" The idea does have *some* merit, but (Usual Disclaimer: In *my* opinion) it's not as strong and argument as is often claimed. Probably, the best thing to do if you realy *are* uncertain, is to check out as many other paintings of the period for similar shades/colours, thay can't *all* have faded in the same way. Personally, I tend to believe the colour as seen unless there is some reason *not* to (like parts of the painting obviously having faded, or other bits of the figure(s), like skin tome etc, having a faded/washed out look that might indicate a substantial degree of fading). Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 05:53:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA27370 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 05:53:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA01633; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA06145 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:01:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (root@bigpapa.nothinbut.net [207.44.32.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA06033 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 04:01:24 -0700 (MST) From: pame@nothinbut.net Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (mtl-ct1-01.nothinbut.net [207.44.46.11]) by bigpapa.nothinbut.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA24064 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:01:22 -0500 Message-Id: <199901111101.GAA24064@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 05:59:04 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4.1.19990109223726.00bb85e0@pop.slip.net> References: <199901081706.MAA14261@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pame@nothinbut.net > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > Fascinating. And you have measured her at this small corseted size? I'm > impressed. > > >Our Maggie is 15 years old. She is 6 ft. tall. She also weighs about > >119 on a good day. She is not anorexic-she eats like mad but she just > >came like that (built like her dad, certainly not moi!) She can > >easily corset down to 15 or 16 inches. Yes-she has been measured recently. She is used to being in garb as she has been active in the SCA since birth (actually, she wasn't that active in it at birth-she just kinda lay there). Now, she is fascninated with corseting as a fashion thing as well. I do not approve of tight corseting. Neither is she permitted to dress ala Madonna but we did give it a shot and she can get to 15 1/2 and still breath and still function. Hope this helps to dispels your disbelief. By the way, when she can find things she is a size three in skirts, dresses etc and still borrows her eight year old sister's shirts when she can get away with it. p. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 08:30:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA27949 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:30:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA07425; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:41:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA13722 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:38:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from sand.global.net.uk (sand.global.net.uk [194.126.82.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA13705 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 06:37:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from p7ds11a06.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.219.126] helo=LHIGGINS.ORGELLA.COM) by sand.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 0zzhXY-0007sG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:37:56 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990111120500.015d35b0@mail.globalnet.co.uk> X-Sender: duchess@mail.globalnet.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:37:45 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Elizabeth Higgins Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Higgins At 21:11 10/01/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >It's relatively easy to imagine you corseted down to 18", at least long >enough to win a bet. It's the 15" thing I am still having trouble with. >And yes, I have seen the retouched photos too. The only one I believe not >to be retouched are the ones of Polaire, which you can see in a book called >The Unfashionable Human Body. Take a look in The Guinness Book of Records. Ethel Grainger had a 15 inch waist until she died in the 50's (I think) and there is also Britta Fleming in Germany (who I met last year) and a very few others who have 15 inch waists. Such a things has, and still exists so why not also durung the 19th century as well? Elizabeth. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 09:46:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28294 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:46:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA13228; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:57:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA20066 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:53:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA20055 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:53:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from 132.198.103.242 (132.198.103.242) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.4F1D9130@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 9:53:58 -0800 Message-ID: <369A109B.4D7@uvm.edu> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:54:25 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations References: <199901100232.VAA10362@jefferson.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hope Greenberg aquazoo@patriot.net wrote: > Hope's point make's sense as the green dress images may have been > painted at a time when Magdalen was thought to be a prostitute. Her > distinguishing characteristic, however, is her long hair. Is the > interesting headgear arrangement of a great quantity of hair? I didn't really want to imply that the Magdalen/green dress/prostitute connection was valid. And I still wonder about the history of the idea that puts the lady in Greensleeves in the role of prostitute, since there appears, to me at least, to be no internal evidence in the song to suggest that. Now I'm beginning to wonder how far back the idea of Lazarus' sister Mary, the foot-annointing Magdalen, the "stoning" harlot, and any other assorted non-Virgin Mary's all being the same person actually goes. In any event, if you take a look at 15th century northern paintings, particularly of the descent from the cross or the pieta, the composition is often Mary in blue flowing gown (or somtimes red) and Mary Magdalen often in a fitted (modern?) gown, often with pinned on sleeves, and often in a more complicated, or sometimes "foreign-looking" headdress and holding that little pot. Sometimes she wears green, but that might be color balancing in the painting more than anything else. But more often the identifying features are the ones mentioned. (Hmmm...time to go back though the images and do a more consistent survey.) Oh yes, and my favorite "weird hat" Magdalen has to be Rogier van der Weyden's, in the right wing of the Brach family triptych, available at http://sunserv.kfki.hu/arthp/html/w/weyden/altar/index.html She looks like she's taken vinyl floor base cove and wrapped it around her head. (That's not a suggestion for how to construct this particular headdress! :-) ) By the way, another costume caveat I've heard is "don't wear yellow, especially yellow sleeves, because that's a prostitutes color." Where does that one come from? - Hope -------------- hope.greenberg@uvm.edu, U of Vermont, http://www.uvm.edu/~hag _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 09:53:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28320 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:53:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA13908; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:04:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA20994 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:01:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id IAA20979 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:01:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from s244135.MICROWEB.net [208.201.244.135] (HELO lisa) by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_00fc_369a_216e_9b7b; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:06:06 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990111065824.0095c220@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:00:07 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: H-COST: Fwd: The 13th century Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel Oh, generous listers.... Can any of you recommend good sites for the 13th century French this woman is looking for? >Hi, I am trying to find out information about the 13th century. I am >especially trying to find information about costume for a 13th century >French woman. I can easily find sites for earlier and later periods but >nothing about the century I am interested in. Pictures and patterns for >13th century garb would be extremely helpful. Can you point me in the >right direction? > >Thanks >Michelle Newton _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 10:15:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28404 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:15:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA16638; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:26:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA24039 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:22:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f262.hotmail.com [207.82.251.153]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id IAA24033 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:22:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 13238 invoked by uid 0); 11 Jan 1999 15:22:01 -0000 Message-ID: <19990111152201.13237.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.197.246.195 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:22:00 PST X-Originating-IP: [208.197.246.195] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: ACW Gloves for Daywear Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:22:00 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Does ANYONE have a good idea or source for ACW-era reproduction gloves? I would love a nice pair of plain, dove-grey ones for day wear. I am not afraid to undertake the making of these gloves if I could find a good pattern, preferable from an original pair. Help, help! Thanks, Susannah ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 10:20:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28423 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:20:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA17291; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:30:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA24649 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:26:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA24644 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:26:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.26 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:25:57 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: RE: !6th Century finishing techniques Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:11:46 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be3d77$488c2820$1a14ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001401be3d07$db9b3540$5e63b5cf@default> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" The Museum of Fine Arts in Boston has a man's leather doublet and breeches from late 1500's early 1600's France in their collection. It's a day's drive from you, but you have the option of having a look at it personally by appointment. You might also check the excellent Canadian museums in your area as well as the Cleveland Art Museum (which has an excellent textile collection, tho I don't know about their costumes) to determine if they have similar garments for you to examine. With the new MAX Kodak 800 film, or even lower ASA, it should be possible to get usable snapshots without flash to study back in the costume shop. Handheld camera with the right ASA film should be fine---or sketch everything! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of David Stamper & Eve Harris Sent: Sunday, January 10, 1999 9:12 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Wax and Fraying -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" Margretta de Vries said: >I just wanted to note that I read once that it was common to treat the >line to be slashed with wax, then cut down the middle, reducing fraying. Janet Arnold talks about treating velvet edges on seams with wax to stop fraying. She mentions that the turned over edges on one extant garment still had waxy feeling stuff on them, blackened by the cut velvet pile. I had the initial impression that wax was applied after cutting, but it makes sense that one would apply it first. I have read somewhere that wardrobe accounts mention a special kind of wax used for this express purpose. Does anyone know its composition? What would be considered a mundane substitute? (New question) Susan Carrol-Clark asked a while ago about sourcing silk and linen thread (we are both Toronto/Ontario area), but I don't remember a response to her query. The linen thread I do know is available is a fairly coarse grade. Is there a good on-line source for notions of this nature? I am particularly interested because I have embarked on an A&S challenge (THE leather jerkin from Janet Arnold + relevant accessories) and I really want to do a good job on every detail. In fact, where can I source iron needles/authentic-style awls etc.? (New question again, I'll stop soon) 16th century period finishing techniques. I find it hard to tell from my sources exactly how garments were finished. I'll be discussing this as well with excellent costumers in my area; in the meantime, are there any good texts that lay this out? Stitching and finishing techniques seem to have different names in different books and different countries; I want to get things straight. Thank you! Eve Harris ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 11:19:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28634 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:19:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA24198; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:30:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA04842 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:27:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA04758 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:26:53 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip137.van17.pacifier.com [216.65.137.137]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA29171 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:26:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901111626.IAA29171@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:27:23 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Priority: normal In-reply-to: <369A109B.4D7@uvm.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > By the way, another costume caveat I've heard is "don't wear yellow, > especially yellow sleeves, because that's a prostitutes color." Where > does that one come from? Sumptuary laws in some areas of Europe. They were definitely not across the board but very specific to the area where it was found. In other places it was a different sign like a specific kind of cloak or a specific kind of headgear or a badge which had to be worn in a visible manner. If they were rich enough they could buy dispensations not to have to wear the identifying color/object. These laws are often found side by side with laws about special thing which were required to be worn by Jews. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 11:27:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28870 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:27:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA24810; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:38:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA06382 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:34:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA06326 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:34:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a04.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.132]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA20676 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:34:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <369A2816.6314FFD5@nash.tds.net> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:34:30 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations References: <199901111626.IAA29171@smtp.pacifier.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat Has anyone else heard of red striped stockings being associated with prostitutes? Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 12:44:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29120 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:44:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA03826; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:55:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA20257 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:51:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA20246 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:51:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA14342 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:52:03 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:52:02 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays In-Reply-To: <199901111101.GAA24064@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> For the record: How old is she now? > Yes-she has been measured recently. She is used to being in garb as > she has been active in the SCA since birth (actually, she wasn't that > active in it at birth-she just kinda lay there). Now, she is > fascninated with corseting as a fashion thing as well. I do not > approve of tight corseting. Neither is she permitted to dress ala > Madonna but we did give it a shot and she can get to 15 1/2 and still > breath and still function. Hope this helps to dispels your disbelief. > By the way, when she can find things she is a size three in skirts, > dresses etc and still borrows her eight year old sister's shirts when > she can get away with it. > p. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 12:46:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29130 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:46:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA03074; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:49:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA19133 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:45:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA19120 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:45:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from uvm.edu (132.198.103.233) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.429490E0@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:45:25 -0800 Message-ID: <369A3881.D6FB51DA@uvm.edu> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:44:33 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations References: <199901111626.IAA29171@smtp.pacifier.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hope Greenberg kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > By the way, another costume caveat I've heard is "don't wear yellow, > > especially yellow sleeves, because that's a prostitutes color." Where > > does that one come from? > > Sumptuary laws in some areas of Europe. Ah yes! I should have been more specific. What I should have asked was: 1) has anyone come across proscriptions on wearing the color yellow, or associations of that color with any particular class or group, in any sumptuary laws between, let's say 1100 and 1600 for western europe? Anybody have a resource for Italian early-16th cent. sumptuary laws? 2) has anyone heard of the association of the color yellow with prostitutes in any modern-day re-enactment/re-creation groups and if so, any details about where the idea comes from? That is, is this another one of those costume myths? I especially want to know if I need to tear those big yellow sleeves off my early 16thc. Italian ren. Thanks! - Hope ------------- hope.greenberg@uvm.edu, U of Vermont, http://www.uvm.edu/~hag _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 14:17:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29575 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:17:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA16816; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:28:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA01908 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:46:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA01821 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:45:49 -0700 (MST) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DYPZCLQU; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:45:36 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:33:09 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Message-ID: <19990111.123347.25342.31.seamstrix@juno.com> References: <199901111626.IAA29171@smtp.pacifier.com> <369A3881.D6FB51DA@uvm.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,6-10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com According to "London-The Synfulle Citie" by E.J Burford: In 1352 the mayor, Adam Francis, procured an Act of Parliment, again seeking control over City prostitution and repeating the ancient proscription,'....that no known Whore shoulde be so bold as to wear any Hood or Attire on her head except ray(striped red cloth of diverse colors)....' this proved just as ineffective as all previous injunctions. Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 14:18:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29582 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:18:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA16888; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:29:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA02381 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:47:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (artemis.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA02156 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:46:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc (ppp24.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.144]) by artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA27089 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:47:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001a01be3d93$2485fc00$90a06480@dsc> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: Colours Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:49:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! I think the thing to keep in mind when examining the issue about whether such and so colour was really worn is to use both kinds of evidence--e.g. paintings and knowledge about dye technology--together. For instance, using the pink example--if we have examples of people wearing it and we also know that it's possible to get pinks with the dye technology of the period, we might be able to safely conclude that such pink clothing might have actually existed. From there, we can keep adding in new evidence (e.g. written accounts, archaeological records) to broaden the picture. However, if it's simply impossible (or extremely difficult) to get a certain colour using the technology of the period, we can probably safely conclude that we're running into a case of dyes and pigments being different. This can get very subtle--for instance, while the depiction of a red dress in a painting (particularly an earlier one) might indicate that red dresses were worn, it does not mean that the shade of red was exactly the same as in the painting. Susan Carroll-Clark _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 14:22:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29599 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:22:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA17339; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:33:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA09821 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:29:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay02.netaddress.usa.net (relay02.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.182]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA09814 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:29:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2641 invoked from network); 11 Jan 1999 19:29:37 -0000 Received: from www0h.netaddress.usa.net (204.68.24.37) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 11 Jan 1999 19:29:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 27657 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 1999 19:03:10 -0000 Message-ID: <19990111190310.27656.qmail@www0h.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 209.122.3.3 by www.netaddress.com via web-mailer(3.1) on Mon Jan 11 19:03:10 GMT 1999 Date: 11 Jan 99 12:03:10 MST From: Orlaith To: Subject: H-COST: RE: 15" waists Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Orlaith I have a 15 year old daughter that I just made an Elizabethan corset for, and >her un-corseted bust and waist measurements are 34" and 21", respectively, and >no, she definately does NOT have any kind of eating disorder...... > > > > >I don't think I was ever that tiny after about the age of 8, so she must be a >throwback to an earlier generation of willowy women..... > Okay, someone please change the subject before I get REALLY depressed. I was just trying to figure out what was making my purse so heavy and ran across a tape measure. Remembering this thread, I thought "I wonder what 15 inches really looks like...Oh that's not very big...I wonder....what MY NECK IS 15 INCHES!!!!" Beth Orlaith of Storvik ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 14:25:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29619 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:25:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA17718; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:36:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA10352 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:33:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA10336 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:33:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:33:07 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <369A2816.6314FFD5@nash.tds.net> References: <199901111626.IAA29171@smtp.pacifier.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:37:26 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Kent & Kat > >Has anyone else heard of red striped stockings being >associated with prostitutes? > >Kat No, only with the Wicked Witch of the West. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 15:05:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA29826 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:05:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA22714; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:15:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA17132 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:12:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from isomedia.com (root@watson.isomedia.com [207.149.221.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA17103 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:11:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from wingate (pm413.isomedia.com [207.149.222.172]) by isomedia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA24241 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:33:50 -0800 From: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" To: Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_H-COST:_Hello=2C_I=B4m_new?= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:04:04 -0800 Message-ID: <000901be3d9d$8a007c40$acde95cf@wingate> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <36950958.5071F7FF@ndh.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" Welcome to the group, Diana. You will learn a lot, but it's pretty chatty here, so be prepared! ~Gail Seattle, WA > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Andrea Clef > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 1999 11:22 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Hello, I´m new > > > > -Poster: Andrea Clef > > Hello costume friends! > > With this I just want to introduce myself to you as I`m new on the list. > > I`m not a costume artist myself ( at least I haven`t tried yet...) but I > `m very > interested in the topic of costume history. > > My name`s Diana, I`m 21 years old and live in Cologne, Germany. > I love reenactment and I`m active in medieval and baroque groups here in > Europe. > But I`m also interested in other decades, like the 19th and early 20th > century. > > If you have special questions concerning European things, feel free to > ask, I`ve got > some good literature and could look for things. > > Your talk is in every case very interesting! > > Many greetings, > Diana > > P.S.: Somebody else living in Europe here? > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 15:07:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA29840 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:07:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA21976; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:08:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA15797 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:04:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA15786 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:04:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port1101.koeln.ndh.net [195.227.37.101]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id UAA00966 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:44:18 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36950958.5071F7FF@ndh.net> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 20:22:01 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Hello, I´m new X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef Hello costume friends! With this I just want to introduce myself to you as I`m new on the list. I`m not a costume artist myself ( at least I haven`t tried yet...) but I `m very interested in the topic of costume history. My name`s Diana, I`m 21 years old and live in Cologne, Germany. I love reenactment and I`m active in medieval and baroque groups here in Europe. But I`m also interested in other decades, like the 19th and early 20th century. If you have special questions concerning European things, feel free to ask, I`ve got some good literature and could look for things. Your talk is in every case very interesting! Many greetings, Diana P.S.: Somebody else living in Europe here? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 15:23:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA29901 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:23:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA25403; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:34:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA20670 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:30:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from schultz.io.com (ches@schultz.io.com [199.170.88.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA20637 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:30:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by schultz.io.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA02504 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:30:14 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: schultz.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:30:14 -0600 (CST) From: ches To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: H-COST: Spanish costumes Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ches Cna anyone help them out or send me info to point them in the right direction? Sincerely, Ches aka Chiara Francesca Steward of Coronation XL -----Original Message----- From: Phil and Karan Foster < phil@globeco.net > To: ches@io.com < ches@io.com > Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 10:42 AM Subject: Clothing I am interested in the clothing of Scotland around the 1350s. Can you maybe give me a direction to look. Book titles would be helpful. Thank you and have a good week. Phil (ska Angus Forrest) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 16:00:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA30028 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:00:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA00504; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:11:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA23907 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:44:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA23720; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:43:57 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:43:57 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901112043.NAA23720@indra.com> From: "Sue W" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Stays, the body - backboards Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Sue W" Cornelia referred to backboards and steel collars. I have read that backboards were in general domestic use in the 18 and early 19C . See chapter 1 of W Thackery "Vanity Fair". There are examples in UK museums - Cambridge and Birmingham. These devices were either held across the back by the handles, or were strapped on. The late 19C doctor H Bigg said they could cause unnecessary suffering, so they must have been unpleasant to wear. Their continued use must be have been seen as effective, I suppose you learn always to be bolt upright (but would not your stays do that ?) I was fascinated that Cornelia's reference to dancing manuals includes an exercise for lengthening the collar bones - thereby expanding the chest ! Can you really do that, or was it wishful thinking? Sue This E-mail brought to you by Excite's free E-mail service. Get your own E-mail address at http://www.excite.co.uk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 16:58:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA30276 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:58:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA08791; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:09:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA09792 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:05:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from dub-img-2.compuserve.com (dub-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.206.132]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA09725 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:05:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by dub-img-2.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id RAA06016 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:04:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:04:24 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: 13th Century To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901111704_MC2-6640-5DD7@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id QAA30276 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson Look at Circa 1265 sites http://homepages.strath.ac.uk/~cjis28/Medieval/index.html and http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/personal/cs1jwh/c1265/index.html I'm a member of c1265 too, which is 13th C English/Welsh, if she wants to contact me further I have some bits and pieces, mainly paper based I could send Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 17:34:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA30456 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:34:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA29386; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:04:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA25070 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:49:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA25042; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:49:53 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:49:53 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901112049.NAA25042@indra.com> From: Heather Law To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: SCA Garb list Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law To get subscribed to the SCA garb list, send your request to Gwenllyan@aol.com She will subscribe you as soon as they get the server thing straightened out, or find another one. In service, Heather/Sister Ed _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 17:48:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA30531 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:48:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA29565; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:05:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA24673 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:47:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA24650 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:47:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a04.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.132]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA16934 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:47:06 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <369A6348.2903A5D6@nash.tds.net> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:47:04 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations References: <199901100232.VAA10362@jefferson.patriot.net> <369A109B.4D7@uvm.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat Hope Greenberg wrote: > > Oh yes, and my favorite "weird hat" Magdalen has to be > Rogier van der Weyden's, in the right wing of the Brach > family triptych, available at > http://sunserv.kfki.hu/arthp/html/w/weyden/altar/index.html This link didn't work for me...is there an alternate? Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 17:50:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA30541 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:50:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA07617; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:01:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA07909 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:55:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp0-alterdial.uu.net (smtp0-alterdial.UU.NET [192.48.96.28]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA07870 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:55:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from jwilbur1 by smtp0-alterdial.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: 63.pcpool89.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.89.63]) id QQfxtf24379 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:55:23 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:55:29 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren Priority: normal In-reply-to: <94aa8e0.3697473d@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" > > -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/7/99 12:35:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, > margo@directcon.net writes: > > > > > I usually cut slashes with an Exacto knife. Some people swear by rotary > > cutters. > > For small cuttes I use a charp. No dragging against the fabric, Just a sharp > bang, and voila! OK, at the risk of showing my ignorance, I *have* to ask: What's a charp?? Thanks! --Jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 19:00:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA30803 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:00:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA03561; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:07:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA03316 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:07:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (tor-smtp1.netcom.ca [207.181.101.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA03304 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:07:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (trt-on29-67.netcom.ca [209.146.239.195]) by tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA25187 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:06:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001c01be3dc0$2d3adc80$c3ef92d1@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:09:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" >By the way, another costume caveat I've heard is "don't wear yellow, >especially yellow sleeves, because that's a prostitutes color." Where >does that one come from? > >- Hope Lives of the Courtesans mentions yellow veils in particular as being an identifier for prostitutes in Italy. I'm not sure, but I think it also mentioned that a couple of the city states had legislation in this vein, along with the "no pearls" rule for courtesans, who of course paid no heed to such laws. Eve Harris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 19:34:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA30982 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:34:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA07311; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:42:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA08434 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:42:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA08425 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA10007 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:33:47 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:33:45 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations In-Reply-To: <001c01be3dc0$2d3adc80$c3ef92d1@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" > Lives of the Courtesans mentions yellow veils in particular as being an > identifier for prostitutes in Italy. I'm not sure, but I think it also > mentioned that a couple of the city states had legislation in this vein, > along with the "no pearls" rule for courtesans, who of course paid no heed > to such laws. I seem to recall yellow being associated with courtesans from way back in ancient Rome. Anyone familiar with that notion? SylviA _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 19:46:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA31029 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:46:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA09002; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:54:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA10161 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:54:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA10153 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:54:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.129]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id QAA25664; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:54:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id QAA13402; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:54:02 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhQ1vaSv9+0U7nTxIdS6LK8sHr2ZfQIUPENDWwAddMHxoHh18scKuKegA08= From: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:54:02 -0700 (MST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Message-ID: <13748-369A9D2A-1156@mailtod-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: Sylvia Rognstad 's message of Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:33:45 -0700 (MST) Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) < I seem to recall yellow being associated with courtesans from way back in ancient Rome. Anyone familiar with that notion? SylviA> The closet to yellow I can remember is the prostitutes were supposed to be blonde or wear a blond wig. Anyone familiar with this one? Starsinger _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 20:33:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA31208 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:33:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA13092; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:40:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA15575 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:40:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA15570 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:40:15 -0700 (MST) From: AliaClaire@aol.com Received: from AliaClaire@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 0NPQa20555 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:37:55 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <8e635696.369aa773@aol.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:37:55 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com In a message dated 1/11/99 2:25:48 PM EST, seamstrix@juno.com writes: << In 1352 the mayor, Adam Francis, procured an Act of Parliment, again seeking control over City prostitution and repeating the ancient proscription,'....that no known Whore shoulde be so bold as to wear any Hood or Attire on her head except ray(striped red cloth of diverse colors)....' this proved just as ineffective as all previous injunctions. >> This is interesting...I can't quote anything specific, although I can try and find some references if anyone's intersted, that the custom of prostitues going with their heads uncovered lasted all the way through the American Civil War, when it was a sign of decency fo females to keep their heads covered. -Alison Stacy AliaClaire@aol.com Canton, Ohio _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 20:34:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA31222 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:34:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA08363; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:48:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA09380 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:48:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id RAA09373 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:48:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:48:12 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <001c01be3dc0$2d3adc80$c3ef92d1@default> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:52:30 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > >> >> -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" >> Lives of the Courtesans mentions yellow veils in particular as being an >> identifier for prostitutes in Italy. I'm not sure, but I think it also >> mentioned that a couple of the city states had legislation in this vein, >> along with the "no pearls" rule for courtesans, who of course paid no heed >> to such laws. >I seem to recall yellow being associated with courtesans from way back in >ancient Rome. Anyone familiar with that notion? >SylviA > I recall that in either ancient Greece or ancient Rome, prostitutes were the only women to have blonde hair, but that's the only connection I can remember. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 20:43:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA31256 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:42:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA14048; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:50:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA16581 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:50:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from sun.rmci.net (sun.rmci.net [205.162.184.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id SAA16563 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:50:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 7293 invoked from network); 12 Jan 1999 01:45:28 -0000 Received: from pag-di38.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.38) by sun.rmci.net with SMTP; 12 Jan 1999 01:45:28 -0000 Message-ID: <369AA812.512A26A1@rica.net> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:40:35 -0500 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Need info about a costume book... References: <8320d494.3692edda@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jennie Chancey Does anyone know anything about Millia Davenport's _The Book of Costume_ (two volumes)? I have never heard of it before, but it looks like a good one to purchase. I'd appreciate any feedback! Thanks, Jennie -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 21:21:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA31464 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:21:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA17972; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:28:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA20538 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:28:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from hummer.tci.net (hummer.TCI.NET [209.19.4.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA20531 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:28:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303-a (c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.4.53.172]) by hummer.tci.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id YRF0SHLH; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:27:22 -0700 Message-ID: <013c01be3dd6$14dbd700$ac350418@c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: Subject: H-COST: Scottish costumes Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:48:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" Sorry wrong title to the wrong email, switched the same thing to the other person, aaaugggghhh! Sincerely, Ches aka Chiara Francesca Steward of Coronation XL http://www.io.com/~ches/coronation99 -----Original Message----- From: ches To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Date: Monday, January 11, 1999 2:44 PM Subject: H-COST: Spanish costumes : :-Poster: ches : :Cna anyone help them out or send me info to point them in the right :direction? : :Sincerely, :Ches :aka Chiara Francesca :Steward of Coronation XL : : :-----Original Message----- :From: Phil and Karan Foster < phil@globeco.net > :To: ches@io.com < ches@io.com > :Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 10:42 AM :Subject: Clothing : : :I am interested in the clothing of Scotland around the 1350s. Can you :maybe give me a direction to look. Book titles would be helpful. :Thank you and have a good week. : :Phil :(ska Angus Forrest) : : _________________________________________________________________ : To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com : with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME : _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 21:28:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA31508 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:28:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA18527; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:36:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA21309 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:36:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA21165 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:35:52 -0700 (MST) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id JZYOa04794 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:27:03 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <685e9973.369ab2f7@aol.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:27:03 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Need info about a costume book... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com THAT should be one of the basics in your costumne library, M'Dear! It's definite keeper! Cheers--- Albra _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 22:56:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA32040 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:56:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA26725; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:04:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA00274 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:04:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA00263 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:04:19 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 8YMBa03472 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:53:34 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:53:34 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Need info about a costume book... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com Jennie -- Buy it. It's one of those "must have" overview books. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 11 23:43:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA32316 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:43:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA00674; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:51:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA04787 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:51:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA04776 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:51:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.72.133.50]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with ESMTP id <19990112045051.CYSJ3071@worldnet.att.net> for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 04:50:51 +0000 Message-ID: <369AD57D.5C88890@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:54:21 -0800 From: don and carolyn richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: "Art of Manipulating Fabric" References: <19990111091259.ESSF17623@LOCALNAME> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: don and carolyn richardson Connie Carroll wrote: > It's a great book. > > Kassandra NickKraken > > Hello everyone: > > > > I was browsing in a bookstore yesterday, and came across the > > following "techniques-type" title which list members might find > > useful: > > > > Wolf, Colette. Art of Manipulating Fabric. Iola, Wisconsin: Krause > > Publishing. > > (Sorry, forgot to jot down the date of publication!) ISBN: > > 0-8019-8496-3 It's definitely worth the money. I bought my copy about 8 months ago at Border's and it's worth its weight in gold IMHO. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 00:22:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA00314 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:22:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA03940; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:29:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA08336 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:28:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from titanium.sge.net (titanium.sge.net [152.91.9.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA08325 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:28:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by titanium.sge.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA21245 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:28:16 +1100 (EST) Received: from kryptonite.sge.net(10.1.2.11) by titanium.sge.net via smap (3.2) id xma020806; Tue, 12 Jan 99 16:27:36 +1100 Received: from amber. (ice-int2.sge.net [10.1.2.254]) by kryptonite.sge.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA19066 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:27:35 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199901120527.QAA19066@kryptonite.sge.net> From: WICKHAM Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: RE: 15" waists Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:25:49 +1100 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: WICKHAM Raymond Has anyone interested in pursueing the things humans put their bodies through for fashion The Museum of London has been running an interesting exhibition (with a cheap mail order publication) on just this subject http://www.museum-london.org.uk/MOLsite/menu.htm Ray "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honour, We ourselves are Lord and Master." > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 00:40:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA00392 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:40:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA05583; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:47:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA10156 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:47:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (mg134-121.ricochet.net [204.179.134.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA10144 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:47:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from ricochet.net (athene.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.14]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA26473 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:51:20 -0800 Message-ID: <369AE2E3.E439527F@ricochet.net> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:55:02 -0800 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pigments, dyes, and the accuracy of paintings (was: color question) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue That's a great posting, Robin, thank you! > cannot be used to dye fabric. I am not a dyer, but people who have made > medieval dyes their specialty have assured me that there is no dye > equivalent for ultramarine blue. Maybe not exactly equivalent, but I have seen some amazing blues quite close to Ultramarine in the Devonshire Hunting Tapestries. So they could get fairly close, if not spot-on. > jeweled hems. Once I started seeing jeweled hems as a clue for the > viewer, I found it helped with my readings of some more ambiguous works, > such as the Lady with the Unicorn tapestries. But that's another lecture. Do tell! =-=-=-=-= "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 01:10:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00709 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:10:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA08238; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:18:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA11159 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:59:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA11087 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:58:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.178] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zzwqe-000157-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:58:40 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990111213513.00bbe2f0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:36:56 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: 15" waists In-Reply-To: <19990111190310.27656.qmail@www0h.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Okay, someone please change the subject before I get REALLY depressed. I was >just trying to figure out what was making my purse so heavy and ran across a >tape measure. Remembering this thread, I thought "I wonder what 15 inches >really looks like...Oh that's not very big...I wonder....what MY NECK IS 15 >INCHES!!!!" Don't get me going about depressing sizes. I grew up when 36-26-36 was supposed to be the perfect set of measurements. My ribs currently measure larger around than that 36 part... Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 01:11:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00718 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:11:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA08313; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:18:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA11125 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:58:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA11086 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:58:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.178] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zzwqf-000157-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:58:42 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990111213748.00ba2ec0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:39:26 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_H-COST:_Hello,_I=B4m_new?= In-Reply-To: <36950958.5071F7FF@ndh.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Welcome Diana. Many of us here like the 19th and 20th centuries too. I hope you like it here. >Hello costume friends! > >With this I just want to introduce myself to you as I`m new on the list. > >I`m not a costume artist myself ( at least I haven`t tried yet...) but I >`m very >interested in the topic of costume history. > >My name`s Diana, I`m 21 years old and live in Cologne, Germany. >I love reenactment and I`m active in medieval and baroque groups here in >Europe. >But I`m also interested in other decades, like the 19th and early 20th >century. > >If you have special questions concerning European things, feel free to >ask, I`ve got >some good literature and could look for things. > >Your talk is in every case very interesting! > >Many greetings, >Diana > >P.S.: Somebody else living in Europe here? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 01:20:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00755 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:20:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA09088; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:28:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA11122 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:58:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA11088 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:58:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.178] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zzwqh-000157-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:58:44 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990111214057.00bbf1e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:57:22 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Need info about a costume book... In-Reply-To: <369AA812.512A26A1@rica.net> References: <8320d494.3692edda@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Does anyone know anything about Millia Davenport's _The Book of Costume_ >(two volumes)? I have never heard of it before, but it looks like a >good one to purchase. I'd appreciate any feedback! I have owned my copy (I have the edition with both volumes in one cover) thru 40+ years and two bindings. It is FULL of pictures (2,778 of them) from original sources and of original garments, tho none in colour in my copy. I only wish the pictures were a little clearer/sharper, and didn't abruptly end in about 1867. Davenport is the one thing I would rescue from the hypothetical house fire if there were only time to grab one thing (right after making sure my kids got out safely, that is). I un-humbly think it's the best one-book costume library anywhere. I'm biased. P.S. Jennie - I think I owe you a Regency shoe pattern from a couple of years ago. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 01:20:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00759 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:20:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA09144; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:28:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA11079 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:58:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA11067 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:58:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.178] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zzwqc-000157-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:58:39 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990111213313.00bc6eb0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:34:42 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours In-Reply-To: <001a01be3d93$2485fc00$90a06480@dsc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I think the thing to keep in mind when examining the issue about whether >such and so colour was really worn is to use both kinds of evidence--e.g. >paintings and knowledge about dye technology--together. For instance, using >the pink example--if we have examples of people wearing it and we also know >that it's possible to get pinks with the dye technology of the period, we >might be able to safely conclude that such pink clothing might have actually >existed. From there, we can keep adding in new evidence (e.g. written >accounts, archaeological records) to broaden the picture. > >However, if it's simply impossible (or extremely difficult) to get a certain >colour using the technology of the period, we can probably safely conclude >that we're running into a case of dyes and pigments being different. This >can get very subtle--for instance, while the depiction of a red dress in a >painting (particularly an earlier one) might indicate that red dresses were >worn, it does not mean that the shade of red was exactly the same as in the >painting. I keep hearing the one about pink not being period, but I never believed that one. It's too easy to get, if only by dying with the lees of the red. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 01:34:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00829 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:34:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA09953; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:42:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA14325 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:42:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id XAA14303 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:42:12 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:42:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2503 invoked from network); 12 Jan 1999 06:37:48 -0000 Received: from 35.240.3-5.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.35) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 1999 06:37:48 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990111224226.2f47fcc2@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 09:34 PM 01/11/1999 -0800, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > >>I think the thing to keep in mind when examining the issue about whether >>such and so colour was really worn is to use both kinds of evidence--e.g. >>paintings and knowledge about dye technology--together. For instance, using >>the pink example--if we have examples of people wearing it and we also know >>that it's possible to get pinks with the dye technology of the period, we >>might be able to safely conclude that such pink clothing might have actually >>existed. From there, we can keep adding in new evidence (e.g. written >>accounts, archaeological records) to broaden the picture. [snip] > >I keep hearing the one about pink not being period, but I never believed >that one. It's too easy to get, if only by dying with the lees of the red. > > >Kayta [snip cute sig] And I have a copy of a portrait of Sir Francis Drake, yes the famouse circumnavigator, in a full suit (doublet or jerkin, cloak, venetians, and nether hose) of rather bright pink. The portrait was painted "by an unknown artist", c. 1580-85. The original is in the National Portrait Gallery in London. (I was able to purchase a 1997 Tudor Portraits calendar of NPG paintings, but I haven't seen any subsequent ones. Has anyone seen a 1998 or 1999 edition?) Joan Jurancich aka Lady Dorothy (Hastings) Devereux [RPFN], mother [in-law] to Lady Essex joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 01:34:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00833 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:34:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA09946; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:42:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA14318 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:42:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id XAA14305 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:42:12 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:42:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2503 invoked from network); 12 Jan 1999 06:37:48 -0000 Received: from 35.240.3-5.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.35) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 1999 06:37:48 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990111224226.2f47fcc2@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 09:34 PM 01/11/1999 -0800, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > >>I think the thing to keep in mind when examining the issue about whether >>such and so colour was really worn is to use both kinds of evidence--e.g. >>paintings and knowledge about dye technology--together. For instance, using >>the pink example--if we have examples of people wearing it and we also know >>that it's possible to get pinks with the dye technology of the period, we >>might be able to safely conclude that such pink clothing might have actually >>existed. From there, we can keep adding in new evidence (e.g. written >>accounts, archaeological records) to broaden the picture. [snip] > >I keep hearing the one about pink not being period, but I never believed >that one. It's too easy to get, if only by dying with the lees of the red. > > >Kayta [snip cute sig] And I have a copy of a portrait of Sir Francis Drake, yes the famouse circumnavigator, in a full suit (doublet or jerkin, cloak, venetians, and nether hose) of rather bright pink. The portrait was painted "by an unknown artist", c. 1580-85. The original is in the National Portrait Gallery in London. (I was able to purchase a 1997 Tudor Portraits calendar of NPG paintings, but I haven't seen any subsequent ones. Has anyone seen a 1998 or 1999 edition?) Joan Jurancich aka Lady Dorothy (Hastings) Devereux [RPFN], mother [in-law] to Lady Essex joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 02:55:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA01147 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 02:55:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA14228; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:01:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA18569 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:01:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA18562 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:00:58 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 4SQHa01428 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 03:00:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 03:00:18 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations/Mary magdalene Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/10/99 9:31:14 AM Pacific Standard Time, clough@erols.com writes: > > -Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough > > At 09:59 AM 1/10/99 -0700, you wrote: > > > >-Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > > >> -Poster: > >> The idea that Mary Magdalen was a prostitute is actually combining > >> her life story with that of other women, some of whom were prostitutes. A > > >> good book is _Mary Magdalen: Myth and Metaphor_, (sorry I forget the > >> author) which separates the myths. Magdalen's "truth" is that she knew > >> Jesus (she was practically an apostle). After His death, she became a > >> hermit in the desert, and her hair grew to such an extent as to hide her > >> nakedness. (that's a rather non-costume connection!) > > > >Then where did the story in the Bible come from if she wasnt a prostitute? > >Why were they trying to stone her to death and why did Jesus tell her to > >go and sin no more, or whatever it was? > > > >Sylvia R > > > > That was "the woman taken in adultery," who is not named in any way. There > is also Mary sister of Martha and Lazarus, and Mary Magdalen, the jazzy > liver who repented and crashed a dinner party so as to pour a jar of > expensive ointment over Jesus's feet. Tradition says all three of these > ladies are the same person, but this isn't supported by the Bible, and you > could just as well assume they were three separate persons. > > Brenda Precisely, Brenda, and thank you. Interested parties may want to look at "Mary Magdalen: Myth and Metaphor" by Susan Haskins (Harcourt, 1993 ISBN 0-15-157765-X) for a slightly over-stated but certainly thorough explanation of why the Magdalen was NOT a prostitute and why she had to become one. For historical interpretive purposes, unhappily, we have to remember that she came to be used as an exemplum of a fallen woman redeemed, and has been for 1800 years or so, regardless of what the documentation. A pity, but there it is. The iconography is what it is. You know how hard it is for a girl to recover from a bad reputation. :) MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 03:05:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA06857 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 03:05:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA14799; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:13:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA19261 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:13:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA19252 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:13:23 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id OHNGa06037 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 03:12:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 03:12:28 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: color question and portraits Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com I'm delighted to get the arguments for "paint only" made clearer. I get so tired of the broad dismissal of portrait colors, just because someone can't imagine, but without backing it up. >From what I'm seeing here, by the time of the mid-16th century Mannerists, it's probably no longer safe to presume the color of a noblewoman's carnation gown, or an earl's peacock blue hose, is paint-only. On the one hand, I'm delighted to be reliably instructed, even when it means having to re-think what I thought! On the other, I can now make my stand on the Elizabethans (Ok, not counting the eyes-and-ears dress) with more confidence than bravado. I come out ahead, either way :-) You can't get this kind of conversation just anywhere! MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 03:15:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA06895 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 03:14:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA15097; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:22:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA19652 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:22:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA19646 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 01:22:46 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id NWDJa01440 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 03:22:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7a97f51d.369b062b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 03:22:03 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/11/99 3:15:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, jessica@pop.net writes: > > OK, at the risk of showing my ignorance, I *have* to ask: What's a charp?? > Oh damn, I'm sorry. A typoe PLUS an ommitted word. I meant a sharp chisel. The real joke, I suppose, is that the chisels I used to have for this purpose were made by one of the finest knifemakers on the planet (not just my opinion), Jim Hrisoulas, aka Master Atar Baktar. That much talent probably isn't necessary, although it did mean custom sizes :). Sorry for introducing an element of random confusion without meaning to. (I'd always rather be confusing on purpose!) MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 08:17:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA08437 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:17:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA26022; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 06:25:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA29352 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 06:25:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA29347 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 06:25:10 -0700 (MST) From: Schmitt100@aol.com Received: from Schmitt100@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id NCYWa01440 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:24:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2046c7c9.369b4cfc@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:24:12 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #28 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Schmitt100@aol.com In a message dated 1/10/99 6:24:01 PM Central Standard Time, owner-h-costume- digest@indra.com writes: > Then where did the story in the Bible come from if she wasnt a prostitute? > Why were they trying to stone her to death and why did Jesus tell her to > go and sin no more, or whatever it was? > > Sylvia R Take a look at your Bible - that woman was NEVER identified; tradition/myth ascribed her as Mary M. ********************** Rebecca Schmitt So many books, so little time schmitt100@aol.com ********************** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 10:10:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08857 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:10:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA05183; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:17:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA10737 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:16:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA10717 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:16:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) id <01J6GHSV9A2O002RCA@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:18:47 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) with ESMTP id <01J6GHSTURDW002MHN@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:18:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.43); Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:16:41 +0000 (GMT0BST) Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.43); Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:16:13 +0000 (GMT0BST) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:16:08 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <342DD1B1150@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Teddy Hello all, I was glancing at a few pictures on the web and in one noticed something I find puzzling so was hoping the collective knowledge of the listmembers would throw some light on the matter. http://www.costumegallery.com/pompadour/material.1500.151x_1.jpg This picture (of a "nobleman" by Jan Gossaert) shows a richly dressed man wearing a white brocade gown over a black slashed doublet. Under the doublet is a white shirt which is very full and puffs through the slashes in the doublet body and sleeves beautifully. The shirt has a high collar (which is either a band of brocade or is highly embroidered) and what looks like matching cuffs (possibly embroidered with pearls) are visible through the slashes on the doublet sleeve at both wrists. What puzzles me is that under the ruffles at the wrists of the shirt there is a row of tabs/picadils. I thought a first that the subject might be wearing gloves, and these tabs were decorating the opening at the wrist, but on closer inspection, the finger-nails are visible on at least the left hand of the sitter. Is this man wearing another, long sleeved, garment *under* that beautiful shirt, the only part visible being the picadils/tabs at the wrist?? Can anyone shed some light on this matter? Thanks in advance Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 10:11:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08864 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:11:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA05378; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:19:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA10996 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:18:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA10939 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:18:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip180.an7-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.18.180]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA10628 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:18:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369B5A65.7B3FC3F9@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:21:27 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren References: <7a97f51d.369b062b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson : > In a message dated 1/11/99 3:15:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, jessica@pop.net > writes: > > > > > OK, at the risk of showing my ignorance, I *have* to ask: What's a charp?? > > > > Oh damn, I'm sorry. A typoe PLUS an ommitted word. I meant a sharp chisel. > I too thought a 'charp' was a tool I had never heard of, but unlike Jessica, I wasn't smart enough to ask--I guess this proves one should *always* ask! Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 10:30:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08940 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:30:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA07079; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:38:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA13978 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:37:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (artemis.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA13900 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:37:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc (ppp17.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.137]) by artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA08053 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:39:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005b01be3e41$ec0b1c20$89a06480@dsc> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #31 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:40:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >- -Poster: Melanie Wilson > >Look at Circa 1265 sites > >http://homepages.strath.ac.uk/~cjis28/Medieval/index.html > >and > >http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/personal/cs1jwh/c1265/index.html > >I'm a member of c1265 too, which is 13th C English/Welsh, if she wants to >contact me further I have some bits and pieces, mainly paper based I could >send I wanted to mention that I've seen the c1265 site and I'm extremely jealous. This is almost precisely the same period, places, and people I concentrate on. I certainly enjoy the SCA but there are times I wish for a group here in North America where everyone knew who Simon de Montfort was. Cheers-- Susan Carroll-Clark Mistress Nicolaa de Bracton of Leicester _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 10:43:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08988 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:43:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA08444; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:51:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA16172 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:51:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (artemis.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA16159 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:50:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc (ppp17.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.137]) by artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA09037 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:52:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006a01be3e43$c2f32c40$89a06480@dsc> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: Colours Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:53:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >I keep hearing the one about pink not being period, but I never believed >that one. It's too easy to get, if only by dying with the lees of the red I hope you didn't think I was claiming it wasn't period in my post. I've seen some absolutely amazing schocking pinks created by lichen dyes--colours you intially look at and say "that can't possibly have been period!" but yep, entirely possible. One thing it's difficult to know is whether being able to obtain a dye through a period process necessarily means it was used, or how much it was used. This is where looking at paintings, household accounts, and achaeological finds can help. For instance, we have so many archaeological finds which were dyed with madder that I think it's a safe bet that if you can get it with madder, there's a good possibility it was used. But a pink from madder (from the remnants of a red dyebath) will look different than a pink from lichen. In a more general sense, simply knowing that green or purple were possible colours won't tell you which shades of green or purple were meant. (My favourite here is "Imperial purple" which isn't the eggplanty or grapey shade we think of as "royal purple" today, but rather a deep purplish red. Fabulous colour....) Susan Carroll-Clark _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 11:01:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09077 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:01:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA11122; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:09:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA19131 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:08:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp0-alterdial.uu.net (smtp0-alterdial.UU.NET [192.48.96.28]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA19118 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:08:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from jwilbur1 by smtp0-alterdial.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: 63.pcpool89.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.89.63]) id QQfxwa08006 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:08:37 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:08:49 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren Priority: normal In-reply-to: <7a97f51d.369b062b@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" > > -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/11/99 3:15:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, jessica@pop.net > writes: > > > > > OK, at the risk of showing my ignorance, I *have* to ask: What's a charp?? > > > > Oh damn, I'm sorry. A typoe PLUS an ommitted word. I meant a sharp chisel. > Oh, whew! No wonder I was so confused.... =D That makes *much* more sense! > The real joke, I suppose, is that the chisels I used to have for this purpose > were made by one of the finest knifemakers on the planet (not just my > opinion), Jim Hrisoulas, aka Master Atar Baktar. That much talent probably > isn't necessary, although it did mean custom sizes :). > > Sorry for introducing an element of random confusion without meaning to. (I'd > always rather be confusing on purpose!) Oh, random confusion always brightens my day... =) --Jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 11:08:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09103 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:08:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA11780; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:16:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA20313 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:16:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from ms1.dgsys.com (ms1.dgsys.com [204.97.64.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA20306 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:16:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from dgs.dgsys.com (robin@hme-dgs.dgsys.com [207.154.14.2]) by ms1.dgsys.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA20955 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:16:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by dgs.dgsys.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA11661 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:16:01 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: dgs.dgsys.com: robin owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:16:01 -0500 (EST) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours In-Reply-To: <006a01be3e43$c2f32c40$89a06480@dsc> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton Someone wrote: > >I keep hearing the one about pink not being period, but I never believed > >that one... Oddly, I've heard this in regard to paints as well as dyes! Evidently from people who haven't looked at very many primary sources -- pink is common in medieval manuscripts, in many wonderful shades, and achievable in a variety of ways. I wonder if this urban myth originated with someone misunderstanding the quite accurate statement that the *word* "pink" is not medieval (or Elizabethan). Rather, the word is period, but not as a color name. The OED (I just checked) has nine different main headers for pink, and many more sub-meanings. The first citation for a color name meaning "light red" is 1681 (and you can figure it was in use slightly before that, but only slightly). Oddly, the same word was defined as a "yellowish-green" pigment starting a bit earlier in the 1600s. (The citations are interesting worth reading.) The OED cites the origins of the color-name use as "obscure." One theory I've heard is that it came from the the name of certain flowers known as "pinks" that happened to be that color. The flowers, in turn, may have drawn their name because their ruffled edges resembled the small slashes on "pinked" garments. The OED is dubious about this -- it cites a pre-1600 meaning of "pinking" as putting decorative holes or eyelets in fabric, but not as edge-slashing till *much* later. Funny, I always assumed that the Elizabethans called that fringy stuff "pinking." I would have to delve deeper on that one to see if the OED missed some references that were common in tailor's usage and wardrobe accounts. But the OED doesn't miss much. Oops, sorry, I digressed. Anyway, I can see someone teaching in, say, a poetry-writing class that "pink" is "not period," and that statement getting taken out of context and mistakenly applied to clothing or painting. --Robin, who really should be doing work and not reading this list _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 11:28:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09215 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:28:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA14346; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:36:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA23566 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:35:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA23559 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:35:39 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip203.van19.pacifier.com [216.65.141.203]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA02515 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:35:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901121635.IAA02515@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:36:10 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4.1.19990111213313.00bc6eb0@pop.slip.net> References: <001a01be3d93$2485fc00$90a06480@dsc> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > I keep hearing the one about pink not being period, but I never believed > that one. It's too easy to get, if only by dying with the lees of the red. I think that pink is period but dying with the lees was something that was avoided. I don't have time to look it up now but I've seen statutes where it was illegal to sell them, letters where it was discussed as something to be avoided as low class and numerous things which indicated that the medievals preferred intense colors requiring several overdyings to make sure that it was as intense as possible. True pastels were not popular until late Elizabethan. The pinks that I have seen in tapestries were not baby pink but intense pinks (deep roses, brilliant peach, almost fluorescent pinks in some cases.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 11:45:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09340 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:45:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA16717; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:53:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA26791 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:53:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA26767 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:53:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (someone@tia1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.40]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA09379 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:53:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901121653.IAA09379@mail.eskimo.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: someone@eskimo.com To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:52:50 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: H-COST: Shakespeare in Love Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: someone@eskimo.com I went to see it yesterday, and I concur with the other comments I've seen here -- wonderful movie, wonderful costumes. The only thing that caught my eye as a possible false note (and I'm willing to accept the possibility that it's just my eye, and not really anything not in period) is the shade of many of the blues used in the costumes. I have extensive experience dyeing with indigo, alone and in combination with other natural dyes, and many of the blues in the film didn't fit in with the range I'm accustomed to seeing. For the most part, they were more in the teal/aqua/turquiose range than I expected. There was also something (a piece of cloth? a costume?) hanging on a rack backstage at the theatre that was a clear, jewel-toned sapphire. So, what is the opinion of those on this list in the know? Are those blues wrong for the period? Was it just my eyes? Possibly a bad print of the film, with the colors off from what they were when filmed? Any other ideas? Pam Dotson Everett, WA USA _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 12:59:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09679 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:59:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA27515; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:06:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA03757 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:33:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (mg134-121.ricochet.net [204.179.134.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA03703 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:32:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (komarr.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.17]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA28642 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:36:43 -0800 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:36:42 -0800 (PST) From: Cynthia Virtue X-Sender: cvirtue@komarr.local.thibault.org To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours In-Reply-To: <199901121635.IAA02515@smtp.pacifier.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Two years ago the ChicagoInst. of Art had a show of ecclisiastic garments, including many from the 1400s. One that I recall strongly was dark pink (fairly intense, but not flourescent!) with quarter-sized metalic gold polka dots on it. Not at all what one would think of for this time period, but there it was, right in front of me. I believe it was heavy silk. -- Cynthia Virtue Virtue is her own reward. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 12:59:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09683 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:59:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA27613; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:06:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA11798 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:06:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA11737 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:06:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA10760.; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:09:18 GMT Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:05:40 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:05:07 +0000 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: uncovered heads Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id MAA09683 Status: O -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" Alison Stacy wrote: This is interesting...I can't quote anything specific, although I can try and find some references if anyone's intersted, that the custom of prostitues going with their heads uncovered lasted all the way through the American Civil War, when it was a sign of decency fo females to keep their heads covered. - In the Sealed Knot society (English Civil War!) the question of whether only whores went bareheaded resurfaces from time to time. I think the general consensus is that, while it was usual for both sexes to wear something on the head indoors and out, it isn't a hard and fast rule. Illustrations show well-dressed ladies of the 17th century with only a small hair decoration. I don't remember seeing any documentary references to prostitutes' headgear, or lack of, from any period. Anyone else? Kate Bunting King's Lifeguard of Foote, SK _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 13:54:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA09903 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:54:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04389; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:02:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA21330 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:01:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA21307 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:01:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust132.tnt2.sfo3.da.uu.net [153.37.7.132]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA10394 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:01:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369B9C9E.ADD6BAEE@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:03:58 -0800 From: Christina Conklin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: ethnic costume resource books Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christina Conklin First posting to this group . . . I am interested in creating historic ethnic costumes, like 16th c. Mughal robes, traditional Turkish jackets, ceremonial Korean gowns and the like. I have the little book Cut My Cote (long out of print) and am looking at buying Max Tilke's 1922 book on Oriental Costumes. But it costs over $100 (also long OOP), and the on-line version at Univ of Indiana just isn't the same. Is this the best book to get, or are there other resources people would recommend? I'm interested in all parts of the world, but particularly Asia, in the largest sense of that word. Also are there others out there doing this sort of thing, either for fun or profit? Any purveyors or web sites you all would recommend?? Many thanks, Christy Conklin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:07:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA09992 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:07:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA06054; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:15:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA23544 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:14:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f259.hotmail.com [207.82.251.150]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA23479 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:14:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 5982 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jan 1999 19:13:48 -0000 Message-ID: <19990112191348.5980.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 131.107.3.72 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:13:47 PST X-Originating-IP: [131.107.3.72] From: "Crystal Webb" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: requesting suggestions for a wedding dress Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:13:47 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Crystal Webb" Hello, I'm getting married this summer (*gasp!*) and I would really like to have a dress that I could use again. My future husband will be in Black Tails, top hat, the whole shebang. I'd like something that would look really good with this. I think Edwardian would look nice, but I'm more interested in something pre 1700. I was wondering if any of you have suggestions? Oh yeah, my body type is round and busty. Thanks in advance, Crystal ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:13:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10024 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:13:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA07120; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:21:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA24451 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:20:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA24431 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:20:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.163] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1009Mo-00031r-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:20:43 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990112111812.00b9f6a0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:19:08 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Pigments, dyes, and the accuracy of paintings (was: color question) In-Reply-To: <369AE2E3.E439527F@ricochet.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >> cannot be used to dye fabric. I am not a dyer, but people who have made >> medieval dyes their specialty have assured me that there is no dye >> equivalent for ultramarine blue. > >Maybe not exactly equivalent, but I have seen some amazing blues quite close >to Ultramarine in the Devonshire Hunting Tapestries. So they could get fairly >close, if not spot-on. >From natural dyes? Period ones? I am new to dyeing and would like to know them. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:22:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10071 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:22:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA08617; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:30:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA26178 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:30:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA26086 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:29:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA10063 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:30:07 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp189-135.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.135]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11309 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:29:49 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199901121929.UAA11309@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:35:25 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi Listers, Hope wrote: > 1) has anyone come across proscriptions on wearing the color yellow, or > associations of that color with any particular class or group, in any > sumptuary laws between, let's say 1100 and 1600 for western europe? Anybody > have a resource for Italian early-16th cent. sumptuary laws? > According to Joachim Bumke (Hoefische Kultur, 1989) the nobility in the 12th c was of the opnion that the lower orders should not be allowed to wear the same dress as they did and be confused with them. They called in the help of the emperor and in a 'Kaiserchronik' of about 1150, which was supposed to be a collection of laws by Charlemagne, they had the emperor ordering peasants to wear only black (!) or grey, no gussets except at the sides, shoes only made of cowhide, 7 ells of cloth for a shirt and pants of common boadcloth, no more, etc. For the record: although there are Carolingian 'capitularia' concerning military dress and equipment, to the best of my knowledge, there are none about dress. The middle of the 12th c is also the period when the church rallies against the aristocratic fashions of the time, among others that of noble women who wear yellow veils and later in the 13th c yellow fillets and barbettes instead of the normal white ones. Heinrich von Melk (end 12th c), Hugo von Trimberg (end 13th c) and the franciscan Berthold von Regensburg (end 13th c) all condemn the yellow 'bands' as sinful, being the colour of prostitution. In courtly literature, funnily enough, yellow was the colour of unfullfilled love; which to say the least gives this striven for goal a rather piquant touch. > 2) has anyone heard of the association of the color yellow with prostitutes > in any modern-day re-enactment/re-creation groups and if so, any details > about where the idea comes from? That is, is this another one of those > costume myths? > We in the LHO discourage the wearing of yellow as a basic colour for normal people and nobility (it can be used in woven bands, trim, and in some linings), except as a heraldic colour (which always goes together with another colour). Our strolling players and incidental whores on the other hand make use of it, based on the above mentioned sources and others. I'll try to find some of them, but it won't be soon. Busy, busy...:-) Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:27:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10094 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:27:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA09004; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:34:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA26700 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:33:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA26142 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:30:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA10025 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:30:03 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp189-135.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.135]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11295 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:29:45 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199901121929.UAA11295@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_H-COST:_Hello=2C_I=B4m_new?= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:38:37 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi Diana, > You wrote: > With this I just want to introduce myself to you as I`m new on the list. > > I`m not a costume artist myself ( at least I haven`t tried yet...) but I > `m very > interested in the topic of costume history. > > My name`s Diana, I`m 21 years old and live in Cologne, Germany. > I love reenactment and I`m active in medieval and baroque groups here in > Europe. Can you tell us which ones? I'm a member of the LHO a medieval living history group (see: www.dsdelft.nl/~lho/) in Nederland, we have connections with Belgian and English groups, and recently, IG Wolf in Deutschland. > But I`m also interested in other decades, like the 19th and early 20th > century. > Welcome to the list! Hope you get some good information here; I know I got lots... > If you have special questions concerning European things, feel free to > ask, I`ve got > some good literature and could look for things. Maybe we can exchange information. Looking forward to your contributions. > > Your talk is in every case very interesting! > > Many greetings, > Diana > > P.S.: Somebody else living in Europe here? > As you see, I live in Dordrecht, Nederland, and there is another Dutchman, a few Swedes, a Finn, a Francaise and several English, and of course lots of Americans, and some Australians. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:30:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10121 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:30:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA09730; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:38:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA27386 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:38:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA27357 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:38:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port1114.koeln.ndh.net [195.227.37.114]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id UAA03695 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:38:07 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <369558F1.3934A02F@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 02:01:38 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Medieval group X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Andrea Clef Hello everybody! Thank you for your nice welcome mails which I received! And there are even some "older" friends here ;-)! Ok, many of you asked me about the medieval reenactment group in which I`m active, it`s a local German one called "Düsseldorfer Lehnsritter". They do mainly tournaments on horseback of the Staufer-period in Germany, late 13th century. Everybody (of the men) portrays a knight that has really lived and fought at the battle of Worringen to free themselves from the strict laws of the archbishop of Cologne. This battle is well researched, so many names of the knights and their lives have been kept in the memory of historically interested people. Thanks for your interest! Many greetings, Diana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:38:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10149 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:38:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA20288; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:19:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA01255 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:18:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA01227 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:18:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p38.directcon.net [206.170.184.87]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA05185 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:14:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:14:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901121714.JAA05185@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: help with men's and women's German Ren Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >> OK, at the risk of showing my ignorance, I *have* to ask: What's a charp?? >> > >Oh damn, I'm sorry. A typoe PLUS an ommitted word. I meant a sharp chisel. Aha! It SOUNDED like a chisel, so I assumed it was some specialized variety. After consulting four of my husband's books on exotic and archaic tools, I was baffled. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:42:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10165 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:42:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA00444; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:30:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA12978 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:14:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA12948 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:14:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-34.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.34]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA28343 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:13:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990111171404.00928a50@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:14:04 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations In-Reply-To: <369A3881.D6FB51DA@uvm.edu> References: <199901111626.IAA29171@smtp.pacifier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings >1) has anyone come across proscriptions on wearing the color yellow, or >associations of that color with any particular class or group, in any >sumptuary laws between, let's say 1100 and 1600 for western europe? I *think* that jews were required to wear those strange hats in yellow. Couldn't tell you exactly when or where. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:44:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10175 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:44:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA00496; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:31:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA12980 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:14:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA12947 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:14:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-34.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.34]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA28320 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:13:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990111171158.0092b100@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:11:58 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations In-Reply-To: <369A2816.6314FFD5@nash.tds.net> References: <199901111626.IAA29171@smtp.pacifier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Has anyone else heard of red striped stockings being >associated with prostitutes? I seem to remember reading a reference that said: in England in either the 13th or 14th century (can't remember which) prostitutes were required by law to wear red and white striped hoods as identification. > > By the way, another costume caveat I've heard is "don't wear yellow, > > especially yellow sleeves, because that's a prostitutes color." Where > > does that one come from? If I remember correctly I believe there was a late 15th or 16th century law in Venice pertaining to prositutes wearing yellow sleeves. Eve do you have any more info on this? Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:46:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10190 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:46:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA12135; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:54:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA29857 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:53:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from post6.inre.asu.edu (post6.inre.asu.edu [129.219.110.87]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA29836 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:53:42 -0700 (MST) From: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu Received: from general2.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V5.1-12 #24133) with ESMTP id <01J6GCRY41428WYPAN@asu.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:54:26 MST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by general2.asu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA17780 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:53:33 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:53:32 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: H-COST: requesting suggestions for a wedding dress In-reply-to: <19990112191348.5980.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Sender: innana@general2.asu.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: KATHLEEN.MAHER@asu.edu First of all, Congratulations! Keeping your body type in mind, I would suggest late Tudor/early Elizabethian, Italian Renn or German Renn. On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Crystal Webb wrote: > > -Poster: "Crystal Webb" > > Hello, > > I'm getting married this summer (*gasp!*) and I would really like to > have a dress that I could use again. My future husband will be in Black > Tails, top hat, the whole shebang. I'd like something that would look > really good with this. I think Edwardian would look nice, but I'm more > interested in something pre 1700. > > I was wondering if any of you have suggestions? > > Oh yeah, my body type is round and busty. > > Thanks in advance, > Crystal > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:48:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10201 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:47:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA12513; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:56:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA00312 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:55:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA00298 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:55:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA10156 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:55:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369BA8CA.36EDECA4@serv.net> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:55:54 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: H-COST: Costume Contest Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True For those of you who are wondering, I *did* enter the Costume Contest, they were pleased with my documentation, and I think they liked the gown too. I had headdress and undergarments and that was a plus. However, the results have not been tallied yet (I think that's what's up) and will not be announced until the Kingdom newsletter comes out. Wah! So, I have no idea how I did. I can say that there was *stiff* competition. Lots of lovely entries. Cynthia -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:48:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10211 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:48:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA01729; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:39:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA16476 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:35:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA16454 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:35:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.out) with ESMTP id KAA27818 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:35:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369B93B7.FB3F0835@best.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:25:59 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historic Costume Mailing List Subject: H-COST: Il Libro del Sarto Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press Well, I already bought the English translation of Il Libro del Sarto elsewhere. Meanwhile I had contacted the Italian publisher, who does still have copies, and this is what they said: > > along with your fax dated 18/12/98, I am glad to inform you that the price > for the book in reference is Lit. 300.000 (we just have the Italian edition, > no other languages commentary is available) and we can send it to you by > mail at Lit. 50.000. > As for the payment, we accept VISA, MASTERCARD, CARTASI credit cards. > Please let me know how you want to proceed. > Best wishes > Antonella Vincenzi Fran Grimble ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:50:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10227 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:50:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA17491; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:59:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA27852 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from m16.boston.juno.com (m16.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.192]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA27819 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:58:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m16.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DYSDLXDX; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:58:21 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Colours Message-ID: <19990112.084309.4783.1.cley@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-7,9-72 From: cley@juno.com (cynthia j ley) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:58:21 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: cley@juno.com (cynthia j ley) Look through any of Jean de Berry's Books of Hours (14th c.) You'll see pinks unrivaled even today, shown on costumes, flora and fauna. Get a good repro, not the cheap ones. The Brazilier editions are stunning. Arlys On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:16:01 -0500 (EST) Robin Netherton writes: > >-Poster: Robin Netherton > > >Someone wrote: >> >I keep hearing the one about pink not being period, but I never >believed >> >that one... > >Oddly, I've heard this in regard to paints as well as dyes! Evidently >from >people who haven't looked at very many primary sources -- pink is >common >in medieval manuscripts, in many wonderful shades, and achievable in a >variety of ways. > >I wonder if this urban myth originated with someone misunderstanding >the >quite accurate statement that the *word* "pink" is not medieval (or >Elizabethan). Rather, the word is period, but not as a color name. The >OED >(I just checked) has nine different main headers for pink, and many >more >sub-meanings. The first citation for a color name meaning "light red" >is >1681 (and you can figure it was in use slightly before that, but only >slightly). Oddly, the same word was defined as a "yellowish-green" >pigment >starting a bit earlier in the 1600s. (The citations are interesting >worth >reading.) > >The OED cites the origins of the color-name use as "obscure." One >theory >I've heard is that it came from the the name of certain flowers known >as >"pinks" that happened to be that color. The flowers, in turn, may have >drawn their name because their ruffled edges resembled the small >slashes >on "pinked" garments. The OED is dubious about this -- it cites a >pre-1600 >meaning of "pinking" as putting decorative holes or eyelets in fabric, >but >not as edge-slashing till *much* later. Funny, I always assumed that >the >Elizabethans called that fringy stuff "pinking." I would have to delve >deeper on that one to see if the OED missed some references that were >common in tailor's usage and wardrobe accounts. But the OED doesn't >miss >much. > >Oops, sorry, I digressed. Anyway, I can see someone teaching in, say, >a >poetry-writing class that "pink" is "not period," and that statement >getting taken out of context and mistakenly applied to clothing or >painting. > >--Robin, who really should be doing work and not reading this list > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 14:59:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10296 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:59:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA13976; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:07:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA02036 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:06:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA02026 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:06:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-158.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.158]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA27641 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:06:29 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990112151259.0093f100@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:12:59 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_H-COST:_Hello,_I=B4m_new?= In-Reply-To: <199901121929.UAA11295@worldonline.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id OAA10296 Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Welcome Diana, >>I'm not a costume artist myself ( at least I haven`t tried yet...) but >>I'm very interested in the topic of costume history. Well, you've certainly come to the right place. ;) >>My name's Diana, I`m 21 years old and live in Cologne, Germany. Do you by any chance have information on the the Waffen und Kostümkunde publication? I've been trying to get my hands on some back issues. >>I love reenactment and I`m active in medieval and baroque groups here >>in Europe. Do you do 16th century stuff too? >As you see, I live in Dordrecht, Nederland, and there is another Dutchman, >a few Swedes, a Finn, a Francaise and several English, and of course lots >of Americans, and some Australians. Henk, you're forgetting us Canadians! Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 15:07:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10332 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:07:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA15492; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:16:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA03848 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:15:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.157]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA03828 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:15:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from tymeportal.com (client196-126-1.bellatlantic.net [151.196.126.1]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA15617 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:16:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <369BAD40.47202E0@tymeportal.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:14:56 -0500 From: Anah X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Hello, =?iso-8859-1?Q?I=B4m?= new References: <3.0.1.32.19990112151259.0093f100@mail.interlog.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Anah I have to vouch for diana's sources. She's shared several things with me, and I am working on getting it all scanned (I scanned the castle she sent me and a picture of herself in garb so far) the computer has been limping along being as the upgrade didn't go well AT ALL..(among everything else) And it's set adding all of the wonderful information she has sent to me back. (as far as adding it to the webpage) INCREDIBLE artwork she has sent me! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 15:32:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10416 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:32:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA18388; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:35:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA07288 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:34:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA07270 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:34:39 -0700 (MST) From: AliaClaire@aol.com Received: from AliaClaire@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id IAXRa07010 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:25:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5a77445d.369bafd4@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:25:56 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare in Love Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com I loved this movie...it was so nice to see an intelligent romantic comedy! My theatre teacher is going to make us all sit through it again...not that I mind. And Judi Dench is my hero. As for costumes, I'm nowhere near an expert in that time period, but I did notice a few things. First, the dress Viola wears when she is first presented to the queen looks slightly later- the head dress looks to me more of the 1620, and some of her dresses look a little early- the first one, at the play, has the square neckline I associate with earlier Elizabethian- correct me if I'm wrong, please. The one thing that I noticed rather blatently is her wedding dress. It was a _beautiful_ dress unto itself, but the waist (rounded except for a rounded point in front) is much later then 1593. In Jane Ashelford's _Art of Dress_ (I just got it for Christmas...excellent book!) on page 96 there is an ivory origional bodice in that same shape. It is clearly dated from the 1660s, and I can't find anything earlier in any of my other books. All of the pointed bodices I can see in Elizabethian pictures show a much sharper point. Queen Elizabeth's dresses, however, looked magnificant to me! -Alison Stacy AliaClaire@aol.com Canton, Ohio _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 15:39:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10448 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:39:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA19324; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:42:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA08586 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:41:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA08569 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:41:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port047.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.47]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id VAA15416 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:41:35 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3695627A.1635567D@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 02:42:21 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: book publication X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef Hello Danielle! >Do you by any chance have information on the the Waffen und Kostümkunde publication? I've been trying to get my hands on some back issues. There has been a very new publication of a book called "Kleidung und Waffen der Früh- und Hochgotik 1150-1250" (costume and weapons of the early ang high Gothic period) by Ulrich Lehnart It`s the most precise book about clothing of that period I know so far with detailed descriptions of sewing techniques and fabrics. There are also some patterns in it. So far it was only published in German. Maybe it uses infos from an older edition, if you meant a different one. Do you know the author? >Do you do 16th century stuff too? So far not, but as I know myself, I end up doing that as well ;-)... I simply have too many interests, that`s hard to cope with sometimes, believe me! I love Tudor style dresses, I prefer them to the German slashed gowns but I also have some pics of these. Greetings, Diana P.S. : Thanks for so much praise, Anah, I hope I can fulfill everyone`s expectations now ;-)! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 15:42:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10461 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:42:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA20262; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:50:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA09934 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:49:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA09926 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:49:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:49:09 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5a77445d.369bafd4@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:53:29 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare in Love Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com wrote: > >I loved this movie...it was so nice to see an intelligent romantic comedy! My >theatre teacher is going to make us all sit through it again...not that I >mind. And Judi Dench is my hero. >SNIP all the On-topic stuff to go to the off-topic sentence> I recently saw a snippet of an interview of Lady Judi. She was, of course, talking about SiL. She said, "And you know what we call Shakespeare in our house . . . the man who pays the rent." Lynn Downward _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 15:43:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10465 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:42:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA20386; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:50:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA09985 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:49:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from dillinger.io.com (ches@dillinger.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA09958 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:49:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by dillinger.io.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA27453 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:49:52 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: dillinger.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:49:51 -0600 (CST) From: ches To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Waffen und Kostmkunde In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990112151259.0093f100@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id PAA10465 Status: O -Poster: ches I have several different articles at home in my files. Copies from Libraries that they sold me. The way I did it was through my local library. I searched for the magazine then ordered the aritcles. It was cheaper than making the copies myself! Ches On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Danielle Nunn wrote: > Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:12:59 -0500 > From: Danielle Nunn > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [iso-8859-1] Re: H-COST: Hello, I´m new > > > -Poster: Danielle Nunn > > Do you by any chance have information on the the Waffen und Kostümkunde > publication? I've been trying to get my hands on some back issues. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 15:55:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10512 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:55:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA21933; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:02:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA12109 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:02:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA12085 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:01:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from tymeportal.com (client196-126-89.bellatlantic.net [151.196.126.89]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA13685 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:01:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <369BB82E.4C320B1A@tymeportal.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:01:34 -0500 From: Anah X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: book publication References: <3695627A.1635567D@ndh.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Anah lol just wait til I post the url when it's all done, I hope yu like the stone jpg I sent you, I am working on adjusting it to something that will do the page justice... Andrea Clef wrote: > > -Poster: Andrea Clef > > Hello Danielle! > > >Do you by any chance have information on the the Waffen und Kostümkunde > > publication? I've been trying to get my hands on some back issues. > > There has been a very new publication of a book called "Kleidung und > Waffen der > Früh- und Hochgotik 1150-1250" (costume and weapons of the early ang > high > Gothic period) by Ulrich Lehnart > It`s the most precise book about clothing of that period I know so far > with detailed > descriptions of sewing techniques and fabrics. > There are also some patterns in it. > So far it was only published in German. > > Maybe it uses infos from an older edition, if you meant a different one. > > Do you know the author? > > >Do you do 16th century stuff too? > > So far not, but as I know myself, I end up doing that as well ;-)... > I simply have too many interests, that`s hard to cope with sometimes, > believe me! > I love Tudor style dresses, I prefer them to the German slashed gowns > but I also > have some pics of these. > > Greetings, > Diana > > P.S. : Thanks for so much praise, Anah, I hope I can fulfill everyone`s > expectations > now ;-)! > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 16:03:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10557 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:03:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA23061; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:12:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA13963 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:11:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA13926; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id HAA21985; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:41:24 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA29693; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:41:23 +1030 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:41:22 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: requesting suggestions for a wedding dress In-Reply-To: <19990112191348.5980.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Crystal Webb wrote: > > -Poster: "Crystal Webb" > > Hello, > > I'm getting married this summer (*gasp!*) and I would really like to > have a dress that I could use again. My future husband will be in Black > Tails, top hat, the whole shebang. I'd like something that would look > really good with this. I think Edwardian would look nice, but I'm more > interested in something pre 1700. > > I was wondering if any of you have suggestions? > Congratulations *grin* If you are going to do what I did, and have a white dress with the plan to dye it for use after, be very careful to check that the fabric will dye. Acetate is bad..... :-( ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 16:05:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10567 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:05:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA23309; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:13:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA14172 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:12:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA14149 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:12:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.out) with ESMTP id NAA20759 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:10:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369BB809.BE5A2727@best.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:00:57 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: book publication References: <3695627A.1635567D@ndh.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press > There has been a very new publication of a book called "Kleidung und > Waffen der > Früh- und Hochgotik 1150-1250" (costume and weapons of the early ang > high > Gothic period) by Ulrich Lehnart > It`s the most precise book about clothing of that period I know so far > with detailed > descriptions of sewing techniques and fabrics. > There are also some patterns in it. > So far it was only published in German. > Who is the publisher? Did they put their address in the book? If so what is it? And what is the ISBN? Do you know how an American can buy a copy? Thanks for any info, Fran Grimble ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 16:23:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10640 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:23:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA26058; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:30:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA17906 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:29:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (mg134-121.ricochet.net [204.179.134.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA17877 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:29:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (komarr.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.17]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA29725 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:33:01 -0800 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:33:01 -0800 (PST) From: Cynthia Virtue X-Sender: cvirtue@komarr.local.thibault.org To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pigments, dyes, and the accuracy of paintings (was: color question) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990112111812.00b9f6a0@pop.slip.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Yes, the Devonshire Hunting Tapestries are original medieval tapestryies from about 1420 or so. They're in the V&A. They have *wonderful* costume detail in 3 out of the 4 of them -- if you have the "Medieval Lovers" book of days, the couple in houps on horeseback on June or July 1 is from one of them. Unfortunately, like the Roses tapestries, images of them are very hard to come by. One of the figures is even a woman with a stuffed roll hat, from the back, so that you can see that the liripipe starts as a cone shape from inside the roll, just like if it were a rolled up hood like the men. I went to the V&A print library and ordered my own copies of photos of them, but alas, that's only good for local folks to see. I'm pretty sure the thing I signed promised I'd never distribute them without permission (ie, no scanning, etc.) but perhaps I'll check sometime soon. -- Cynthia Virtue Virtue is her own reward. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 16:35:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10680 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:35:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA28359; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:44:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA20060 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:43:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA20025 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:43:26 -0700 (MST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id HPGIa01433 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:42:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8fe1edd9.369bc1d4@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:42:44 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com Cindy, you have a good point here: << Two years ago the ChicagoInst. of Art had a show of ecclisiastic garments, including many from the 1400s. One that I recall strongly was dark pink (fairly intense, but not flourescent!) with quarter-sized metalic gold polka dots on it. Not at all what one would think of for this time period, but there it was, right in front of me. I believe it was heavy silk. >> >From my research on brocaded tabletwoven bands, I can tell you that the silks could be dyed virtually any shade you can imagine. It is the wools and linens that have a more limited repetoire. Nancy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 16:40:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10709 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:40:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA28916; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:48:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA20736 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:47:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (smtp.email.msn.com [207.68.143.160]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA20729 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:47:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.92 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:46:46 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: ethnic costume resource books Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:49:09 -0500 Message-ID: <000501be3e75$a88d97a0$551fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <369B9C9E.ADD6BAEE@earthlink.net> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" The American Museum of Natural History has the biggest collection of ethnic costume in this part of the world, and they did publish a book about 20 years back which was wonderful. Lots of photos and sketches, but absolutely no pattern layouts. This is an interest of mine, and I don't know anything better than Cut My Cote and Tilke's 1922 book. At a mere $100, by the way, the very rare Tilke book is an absolute steal, in my opinion. The recent book called Make Your Own Japanese Clothes by John Marshall has good layouts and detail instructions for custom cutting a number of Japanese coats, jackets, and pants to size. It's available at www.Amazon.com, list $25 printed on the book, but they often have things for less. The Moghul stuff is beginning to show up as antiques on a number of websites, and it's fascinating. I found this an 18th c. Tibetan "chuba", a Chinese silk brocade robe cut in the Tibetan style at http://www.zeestone.com/textiles.htm.Tibetan with similar embroidery motifs, but at a far bigger scale, as the standard white linen woman's jacket with polychrome embroidery of 17th Century England. I suspect the Chinese brocade is an older style design, and the English jacket is a copy of the motif, but that's only conjecture on my part. The Topkapi Palace Museum in Istanbul, Turkey WebPages have a half-dozen or more sultan's caftans on the Web too at : http://www.ee.bilkent.edu.tr/~history/topkapi.html. They have over 2000 sultan's garments in their collection, but unfortunately display but a tiny fraction of them on the Web and at the museum. I have a few pretty poor, but interesting .jpgs I snapped when I was at the museum, which I can e-mail you if you wish. They won't show any construction details, as the light was dim and I used no tripod or flash, but they do convey the patterns on the caftans nicely enough to replicate them in applique (the originals are woven, not appliqued, and the fabrics are no longer made). Hope H.Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Christina Conklin Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 2:04 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: ethnic costume resource books -Poster: Christina Conklin First posting to this group . . . I am interested in creating historic ethnic costumes, like 16th c. Mughal robes, traditional Turkish jackets, ceremonial Korean gowns and the like. I have the little book Cut My Cote (long out of print) and am looking at buying Max Tilke's 1922 book on Oriental Costumes. But it costs over $100 (also long OOP), and the on-line version at Univ of Indiana just isn't the same. Is this the best book to get, or are there other resources people would recommend? I'm interested in all parts of the world, but particularly Asia, in the largest sense of that word. Also are there others out there doing this sort of thing, either for fun or profit? Any purveyors or web sites you all would recommend?? Many thanks, Christy Conklin ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 16:54:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10756 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:54:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA26288; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:31:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA18112 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:30:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from dgs.dgsys.com (robin@dgs.dgsys.com [204.97.64.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA18065 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:30:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by dgs.dgsys.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA29211 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:30:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: dgs.dgsys.com: robin owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:30:37 -0500 (EST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Subject: H-COST: Source on medieval colors Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton Serendipitously, a librarian friend of mine just passed me this title. He says it's cataloged as "middle ages," and otherwise this is all I know about it. But it sounds somewhat connected to our discussion. Perhaps of interest to someone. P. J. Gibbs, Berberine and huangbo: ancient colorants and dyes (London: British Library, 1997). --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 18:15:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA11057 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:15:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA12525; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:23:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA01747 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA01310 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:43:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA32380 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:25:03 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:25:03 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume Contest In-Reply-To: <369BA8CA.36EDECA4@serv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> Are you going to post a picture somewhere where we can see it? On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Merouda the True wrote: > > -Poster: Merouda the True > > For those of you who are wondering, I *did* enter the Costume Contest, > they were pleased with my documentation, and I think they liked the > gown too. I had headdress and undergarments and that was a plus. > > However, the results have not been tallied yet (I think that's what's > up) and will not be announced until the Kingdom newsletter comes out. > Wah! So, I have no idea how I did. I can say that there was *stiff* > competition. Lots of lovely entries. > > Cynthia > > -- > Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Barony of Madrone > Kingdom of An Tir > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 18:20:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA11076 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:20:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA13051; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:28:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA16001 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:27:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA15971 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:27:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10927 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:27:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369BDA76.BE9A466B@serv.net> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:27:50 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume Contest etc... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > Are you going to post a picture somewhere where we can see it? What I'll probably have to do is send it to someone to put on their web site. Or something. Hmmmm, I'm starting to acquire some pictures and stuff. Wonder if I should consider a website. Does h-costume have a web site? And will someone please tell me about how to reach archives? A list web site would be a great place to post pics of stuff we do. I just don't know if I have the capabilities. Cynthia -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 18:28:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA11104 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:28:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA13942; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:37:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA17549 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:36:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA17509 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:36:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.53] (sdts10-53.znet.net [207.167.66.53]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id PAA02465 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:36:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:36:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199901121635.IAA02515@smtp.pacifier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams There are plenty of washed out pinks on peasants and middle class women throughout the period. And since some are shown in the same pictures with people wearing brighter pinks and reds, my assumption would be that pink is period. Reds fade so easily anyway... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 19:00:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA11256 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:00:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA17181; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:07:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA02601 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:07:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA02585 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:07:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from unknown (vision186.vcn.com [208.162.240.209]) by sight.vcn.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 07DA9F51B7; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:07:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <369BDA76.BE9A466B@serv.net> References: Conversation with last message <369BDA76.BE9A466B@serv.net> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume Contest etc... Date: Tue, 12 Jan 99 18:09:15 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id TAA11256 Status: O -Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" This is an excellent idea..... or perhaps a section in the Costume Gallery for us? All Health! Liadain ---------- > > -Poster: Merouda the True > > > Are you going to post a picture somewhere where we can see it? > > What I'll probably have to do is send it to someone to put on their web > site. Or something. Hmmmm, I'm starting to acquire some pictures and > stuff. Wonder if I should consider a website. > > Does h-costume have a web site? And will someone please tell me about how > to reach archives? > A list web site would be a great place to post pics of stuff we do. I just > don't know if I have the capabilities. > > Cynthia > > -- > Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Barony of Madrone > Kingdom of An Tir > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 19:09:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA11308 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:09:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA18176; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:17:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA04072 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:16:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from jezebel.newdream.net (root@jezebel.newdream.net [207.155.127.148]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA04045 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:16:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from acc-1.imag.net (acc-1.imag.net [204.244.221.221]) by jezebel.newdream.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id QAA27945 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:16:50 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990112161736.006bfdd0@silverspin.net> X-Sender: karla@silverspin.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:17:36 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Karla Sexsmith Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume Contest etc... In-Reply-To: <369BDA76.BE9A466B@serv.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Karla Sexsmith >> Are you going to post a picture somewhere where we can see it? > >What I'll probably have to do is send it to someone to put on their web >site. Or something. Hmmmm, I'm starting to acquire some pictures and >stuff. Wonder if I should consider a website. > >Does h-costume have a web site? And will someone please tell me about how >to reach archives? >A list web site would be a great place to post pics of stuff we do. I just >don't know if I have the capabilities. I would be willing to do something like this... I have the server space, I can make the pages, I even have the capability to scan stuff for people if they can't do it themselves. Karla ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karla Sexsmith ~ karla@silverspin.net http://www.silverspin.net ICQ#916055 (work) or 1595696 (home) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 20:01:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11492 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:01:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA23357; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:09:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA10846 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:08:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA10835 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:08:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from gia-g (dialup703.serv.net [207.207.65.67]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA02304 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:08:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001001be3e91$b7dc4a00$4341cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: H-COST: FO report Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:11:12 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Greetings, list! I recently did a elizabethan for my 3 yr old that I am glad to say was one of the winners of the "Well Dressed Child" contest at Twelfth Night, this last weekend. I made it out of a black silk (well, I got the silk cheap...) with a pansy motif woven in damask style. Using one of the dresses in QEWU as a guide, I did the sleeves out of white taffeta with black flocking. The sleeves were puffy at the head and fitted at the wrist. Also I had hanging sleeves, lined with the white taffeta. The hanging sleeves hung to the hem. I hand stitched the gold trim around the edges of the hanging sleeves and on the front of the gown (diagonally from neckline corners to waist point). The bodice of the gown is fully lined and interlined with horsehair interfacing. If I hadn't taken ill I would had time to do a proper corset and farthingale for her. Those will be next. I also did cartridge pleating for the first time and could have shot myself for not doing it before! It's easy and I found the drape of the skirt to be just what I was hoping it would do. I plan on doing it on all my Italian rens from now on, too! The chemise I gathered the fullness of the neckline and sleeves into a band with a pleated ruffle. I handstitched the band onto the body of the chemise and liked doing that as well. I found I was able to control the gathering much better than doing by machine. I also handstitched the ties into the bands. I cheated and used my serger for the long seam of the skirt. The next elizabethan I plan to make I will do a french seam on the skirt. Gia/Giacinta costuming nut _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 21:22:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA11851 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:22:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA02567; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:31:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA19975 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:30:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA19946 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:30:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from erols.com (207-172-64-175.s175.tnt17.brd.erols.com [207.172.64.175]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00994 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:30:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <369C055E.BA63C42F@erols.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:30:54 -0500 From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Bridge Enterprizes X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Spanish costumes References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David S. Mallinak" > From: Phil and Karan Foster < phil@globeco.net > > > I am interested in the clothing of Scotland around the 1350s. Can you > maybe give me a direction to look. Book titles would be helpful. > Thank you and have a good week. The best for the Highland area of Scotland, if you can find it, is "Old Highland Dress" H. F. McClintock. Dundalgan Press, Ltd. Dundalk 1943, 1949, 1950. David S Mallinak _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 21:58:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA12001 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:58:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA06020; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:07:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA23829 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:06:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA23819 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:06:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip27.an3-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.14.27]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA23162 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:06:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369C003E.10A9FB13@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:09:04 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Yellow/prostitutes/Jews etc References: <001c01be3dc0$2d3adc80$c3ef92d1@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson I'm sorry that I don't remember the exact uses of the different colors and patterns, but there is information on the Italian sumptuary laws about prostitutes, including the colors which they were forced to wear, and also on those which applied to Jews, in: Diane Owen Hughes "Sumptuary Laws and Social Relations in Renaissance Italy." In a book called *Disputes and Settlements*, ed. by John Bossy Cambridge University Press, 1983 Diane Owen Hughes "Distinguishing Signs: Ear Rings, Jews and Franciscan Rhetoric in the Italian Renaissance City." In the journal *Past and Present*, no. 112, 1986. This is mostly about distinguishing signs for Jews, concentrating on jewelry but mentioning other things as well. James Brundage "Sumptuary Laws and Prostitution in Late Medieval Italy" Journal of Medieval History, vol. 13 no. 4 (1987) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 22:11:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA12050 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:11:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA07503; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:20:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA25031 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:19:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA25024 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:19:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from alt1 (sdn-ar-001dcwashP116.dialsprint.net [168.191.20.76]) by magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA11663 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:19:14 -0800 (PST) From: "Allison Thurman" To: Subject: H-COST: re: mary magdalene Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:21:37 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2212 (4.71.2419.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Allison Thurman" > Then where did the story in the Bible come from if she wasnt a prostitute? > Why were they trying to stone her to death and why did Jesus tell her to > go and sin no more, or whatever it was? if i remember correctly she was initially referred to as "the woman out of whom 7 devils were cast" - ie, perhaps she worshipped a cult and would therefore be viewed by jesus and his apostles as a sinner - this was later reinterpreted to mean that she was a prostitute. however, as mentioned previously any of several marys mentioned in the new testament could have been the same person. (i wont go further, as this is off topic, but if anyone wants documentation email me privately and i'll scratch it up.) > > Sylvia R allison _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From robin@dgsys.com Tue Jan 12 22:15:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from dgs.dgsys.com (dgs.dgsys.com [204.97.64.1]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA12067 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:15:07 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by dgs.dgsys.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA04289 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:23:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: dgs.dgsys.com: robin owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:23:20 -0500 (EST) From: Robin Netherton To: Eric Praetzel Subject: H-cost archives In-Reply-To: <199811201335.IAA08554@sca.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O Just wanted to thank you for the wonderful service you've provided with the searchable archives. Even though they're just the early ones -- the search function is marvelous, and the posts are just not accessible elsewhere. I look forward to perhaps seeing you add the new archives from the list's current site. They're a pain to use through the conventional route, because they're indexed only by digest number. Thanks again for your willingness to share these records. --Robin From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 22:19:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA12087 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:19:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA08497; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:28:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA25655 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:27:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA25647 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:27:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.155] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100GxT-00011O-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:27:03 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:27:34 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: book publication In-Reply-To: <369BB82E.4C320B1A@tymeportal.com> References: <3695627A.1635567D@ndh.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 04:01 PM 1/12/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Anah > >lol just wait til I post the url when it's all done, I hope yu like the >stone jpg I sent you, I am working on adjusting it to something that >will do the page justice... > You caught my interest...what's the site going to be? Thanks. Carol / Gra/inne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 23:26:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA12338 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:26:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA15424; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:34:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA03988 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:33:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA03974 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:33:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-86-236.s236.tnt6.rcm.erols.com [207.172.86.236]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA05212 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:33:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000101be3ead$f8239b60$ec56accf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: "costume newsgroup" Subject: H-COST: Incas Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:34:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" I just watched a really good video on the Inca civilization. It was originally aired on PBS in 1980, and produced by the BBC. It is titled Incas (PBS Video 1061). They briefly touched upon the importance of clothing in their culture. One of the sources credited was The Textile Museum. The video talked of a person in the 1500's who wrote over 1200 letters about the society including detailed illustrations of the people with various occupations in the civilization. Some illustrations are shown on the video. Now for my questions: 1. Does anyone have an idea which Textile Museum they would be crediting? Two groups of historians were shown in the video, researching two different forts, a British group and the Museum of American History. But the credits stated plainly, The Textile Museum. 2. Are some of these letters available in publication or on the web for people to study? These letters seem like a great find. I am interested in comparing the costumes within the culture. 3. Why is this civilization not touched on more in history classes? The Incas were very advanced in architecture, agriculture, and textile develop. I remember in grade school the Incas was touched upon briefly (for the gold and European invasion). In my art history courses, one professor showed two slides of their housing. In my costume history classes the Incas were never covered. Enough questions for the night... Penny (who is always learning something new) http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 23:48:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA12410 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:48:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA17716; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:56:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA06360 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:55:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA06346 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:55:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-86-236.s236.tnt6.rcm.erols.com [207.172.86.236]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA13437 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:55:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000101be3eb1$08492f20$ec56accf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: "costume newsgroup" Subject: H-COST: Codpiece giggle Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:56:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" I have to giggle at this letter I received tonight via my website. I wrote the lady back and explained what a codpiece was. But I thought you all would enjoy reading the letter. Imagine yourself in this mother's position. The letter.... Hello: my 13 year old daughter is very curios about the wedding costume in the movie, "Shakespeare in love." The question: why does the man's costume has an accessory that looks like a penis? What is the symbolic meaning of it? could you let her know? Back to Penny... what happened to the website about codpieces??? I used to link to it but it disappeared about a year ago. Later... a Giggling Gal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 23:54:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA12433 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:54:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA18367; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:03:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA07134 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:02:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA07121 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:02:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-8.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA09404 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:02:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990112220944.00947b60@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:09:44 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: book publication In-Reply-To: <3695627A.1635567D@ndh.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id XAA12433 Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >>Do you by any chance have information on the the Waffen und Kostümkunde > >publication? I've been trying to get my hands on some back issues. >There has been a very new publication of a book called "Kleidung und >Waffen der >Früh- und Hochgotik 1150-1250" (costume and weapons of the early ang >high >Gothic period) by Ulrich Lehnart >It`s the most precise book about clothing of that period I know so far >with detailed >descriptions of sewing techniques and fabrics. >There are also some patterns in it. >So far it was only published in German. Are there good photos/pictures in it? If the pictures are good enough I'd get it even though I can't read German. Do you have an ISBN number for it? >Maybe it uses infos from an older edition, if you meant a different one. >Do you know the author? It is actually, a periodical so there is not an "author" per say. However, I've only seen them once and didn't take note of an editor. Frankly, I'm not sure I could have figured it out from the German. >So far not, but as I know myself, I end up doing that as well ;-)... >I simply have too many interests, that`s hard to cope with sometimes, >believe me! >I love Tudor style dresses, I prefer them to the German slashed gowns >but I also >have some pics of these. You sound like a woman after my own heart! Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 23:54:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA12434 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:54:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA18385; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:03:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA07145 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:02:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA07115 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:02:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-8.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA09378 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:02:04 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990113000945.00946410@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:09:45 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare in Love In-Reply-To: <5a77445d.369bafd4@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >As for costumes, I'm nowhere near an expert in that time period, but I did >notice a few things. First, the dress Viola wears when she is first presented >to the queen looks slightly later- the head dress looks to me more of the >1620, and some of her dresses look a little early- the first one, at the play, >has the square neckline I associate with earlier Elizabethian- correct me if >I'm wrong, please. I really need to see it again to notice the details. >The one thing that I noticed rather blatently is her wedding dress. It was a >_beautiful_ dress unto itself, but the waist (rounded except for a rounded >point in front) is much later then 1593. In Jane Ashelford's _Art of Dress_ (I >just got it for Christmas...excellent book!) on page 96 there is an ivory >origional bodice in that same shape. It is clearly dated from the 1660s, and I >can't find anything earlier in any of my other books. All of the pointed >bodices I can see in Elizabethian pictures show a much sharper point. Although, I was disappointed in the costuming (the way people were raving I was expecting it to be better) but I digress. If you look at Alcega (1580s) the points of the bodices are quite rounded. >Queen Elizabeth's dresses, however, looked magnificant to me! But what was that gold spikey thing around her neck? I've never seen the like, or the the peacock feather "ruff". Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 12 23:54:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA12440 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:54:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA18414; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:03:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA07148 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:02:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA07135 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:02:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-8.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA09428 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:02:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990112221609.009473c0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:16:09 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: RE: H-COST: ethnic costume resource books In-Reply-To: <000501be3e75$a88d97a0$551fffd0@default> References: <369B9C9E.ADD6BAEE@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >The Topkapi Palace Museum in Istanbul, Turkey WebPages have >a half-dozen or more sultan's caftans on the Web too at : >http://www.ee.bilkent.edu.tr/~history/topkapi.html. They >have over 2000 sultan's garments in their collection, but >unfortunately display but a tiny fraction of them on the Web >and at the museum. I have a few pretty poor, but >interesting .jpgs I snapped when I was at the museum, which >I can e-mail you if you wish. They won't show any >construction details, as the light was dim and I used no >tripod or flash, but they do convey the patterns on the >caftans nicely enough to replicate them in applique (the >originals are woven, not appliqued, and the fabrics are no >longer made). The Topkapi Palace Museum actually published a series of books and one of them is on textiles. It has a number of photos of surviving caftans from about 16th century on. If anyone is interested I'll dig out the book and post the info. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 01:08:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA13543 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 01:08:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA23952; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:16:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA13432 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:15:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA13420 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:15:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.202.189.103] (ppp-103.pm4-1.grin.net [208.202.189.103]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA21537 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:15:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000101be3ead$f8239b60$ec56accf@s0peladn> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:23:52 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@grin.net Subject: Re: H-COST: Incas Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Penny E. Ladnier asked: >1. Does anyone have an idea which Textile Museum they would be crediting? >Two groups of historians were shown in the video, researching two different >forts, a British group and the Museum of American History. But the credits >stated plainly, The Textile Museum. Most likely The Textile Museum in Washington, D.C. They have produced a number of publications about textile finds from Peru. They publish The Textile Museum Journal on textile research.The museum isn't huge, but they have contacts to other resources. THE TEXTILE MUSEUM 2320 S Street, NW Washington, DC 20008-4088 Phone: (202) 667-0441 Fax: (202) 483-0994 Open: Monday - Saturday 10:00 am - 5:00 pm, Sunday 1:00 to 5:00 pm Closed:All Federal Holidays and December 24 Website: http://www.textilemuseum.org/ >2. Are some of these letters available in publication or on the web for >people to study? These letters seem like a great find. I am interested in >comparing the costumes within the culture. You may be able to get more information on these from The Textile Museum. I participated in a symposium there on Indonesian textiles in the late 1970's and they were very friendly and helpful then. I sure hope they still are :-) >3. Why is this civilization not touched on more in history classes? The >Incas were very advanced in architecture, agriculture, and textile develop. >I remember in grade school the Incas was touched upon briefly (for the gold >and European invasion). In my art history courses, one professor showed two >slides of their housing. In my costume history classes the Incas were never >covered. We covered them in the series of textile history classes i had at UC-Berkeley, back in the late '60's-early '70's when they had a textiles program, one that was destroyed while Ronald Regan was governor. They even had a draw loom! which got shipped off elsewhere or sold. What a shame. My 18-year-old daughter says her middle school class had a whole unit on them. Kids now, at least in California, get much more exposure to other cultures than i did in my day, when we had absolutely none--and my high school history class only mentioned the Egyptians as forerunners of the Greeks, that was a multicultural as it got. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 01:49:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA13738 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 01:49:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA26987; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:58:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA16499 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:57:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id XAA16493 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:57:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 14758 invoked from network); 13 Jan 1999 06:58:19 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-93.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.93) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 1999 06:58:19 -0000 Message-ID: <369C67DC.9A0@mc.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 01:31:08 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Pinks/reds References: <199901130615.XAA13441@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law I read somewhere that a lot of nobility would pass on their "old" (already wore it once? :-)) garments to "lesser" nobility, servants and the like... Seems to me that some of the sturdier garments could have been hand-me-downed enough times to make it to the middle classes. And yes, the reds would fade - I've had that happen plenty with *modern* dyes! Also, in the Middle East, there is a tribe sometimes called the "blue men". They wear indigo dyed garments, and darker = richer, because the richer you are, the more dips in the dyebath you can afford for your clothes, to the point where they look black and the dye comes off and stains the person wearing it? Don't know squat about madder and other reds, but if it took more dye (and/or time) to get a deeper red, the lower classes might have only been able to afford pink, the **filthy**rich, maroon... Heather > > - -Poster: Julie Adams > > There are plenty of washed out pinks on peasants and middle class women > throughout the period. And since some are shown in the same pictures with > people wearing brighter pinks and reds, my assumption would be that pink is > period. Reds fade so easily anyway... > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 07:58:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA20676 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:58:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA12187; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:07:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA00594 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:05:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (tor-smtp1.netcom.ca [207.181.101.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA00587 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:05:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (trt-on4-31.netcom.ca [207.181.81.223]) by tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA11854 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:04:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004e01be3ef6$0d9e2ee0$df51b5cf@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:10:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" >-Poster: Danielle Nunn >If I remember correctly I believe there was a late 15th or 16th century law >in Venice pertaining to prositutes wearing yellow sleeves. Eve do you have >any more info on this? I mentioned earlier in the thread that _Lives of The Courtesans_ discusses this and (copy at the library right now, dammit!) I seem to remember that it briefly discussed a few sumptuary laws pertaining to prostitutes, which as I recall mentioned yellow veils and pearls. I'm going to borrow it again - in the meantime, does anyone else OWN this book and could back me up on this? _Lives of the Courtesans_ is an amusing book. The research is fairly good, but where it falls down for me is when it proceeds to take almost every well-known female portrait from the Italian Renaissance and suggest that the female portrayed is probably a prostitute. (Aside of course from the Estes etc.! And Bia.) In particular, it cited La Donna Velata by Raphael as a prostitute (she's wearing a beautiful yellow dress, chemise adorned with deep yellow or gold trim, and a yellow veil). Humph. The book says that the placement of the hands in Ital Ren portraits is a telling factor i.e. are they cradling or suggestively pointing to the breasts or nether regions? (instead of holding a prayer book) If so, then they are prostitutes. I don't know much about symbolism in portraits other than actual items. Is hand placement important? I'm going to get that book and wring its little neck. It does have a good bibliography. Eve Harris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 08:37:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA20827 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:37:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA15729; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:47:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA03544 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:45:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id GAA03538 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:45:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 29843 invoked from network); 13 Jan 1999 13:46:36 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-58.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.58) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 1999 13:46:36 -0000 Message-ID: <369CC794.6D9D@mc.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:19:32 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: historic ethnic References: <199901122327.QAA16049@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law One of my favorites (more specific than you're interested in, maybe) is Art of Arabian Costume, one edition goes for $50 from various online booksellers, the other is $75 -- don't know what the difference is. I also recommend 5,000 Years of Chinese Costume, Mongol Costume (out of print, but you can get it from interlib. loans), and I saw one on Southeast Asian costume a while ago at Borders or Barnes & Noble -- $50 or so, out of my reach! About the best place to find books is the Unicorn Books (don't know the exact title -- I can't find mine) catalog -- they have just about everything on costume, sewing, textiles etc. in print. It costs around $2, and you will *drool*! Heather Law > - -Poster: Christina Conklin > > are there > other > resources people would recommend? I'm interested in all > parts of the > world, but particularly Asia, in the largest sense of that > word. > > Also are there others out there doing this sort of thing, > either for fun > or profit? Any purveyors or web sites you all would > recommend?? Many > thanks, > > Christy Conklin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 09:35:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21072 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:35:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA19196; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:44:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA09142 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:42:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA09124 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:42:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip187.an7-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.18.187]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA21575 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:42:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369CA36D.3BDBD489@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:45:19 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Incas References: <000101be3ead$f8239b60$ec56accf@s0peladn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Penny E. Ladnier wrote: > 1. Does anyone have an idea which Textile Museum they would be crediting? > Two groups of historians were shown in the video, researching two different > forts, a British group and the Museum of American History. But the credits > stated plainly, The Textile Museum. > The Textile Museum is a wonderful museum in Washington, D.C., and that is its full name. I don't have the information handy, but I'm sure they have a website. They have a library, although I don't think they lend, and they have many wonderful publications. They are particularly strong in South American and Central Asian publications, if I remember rightly. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 09:37:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21082 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:37:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA19440; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:47:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA09591 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:45:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA09579 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:45:27 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id IAHMa02625 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:43:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:43:38 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Incas Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Penny, The Textile Museum in Washington DC is the probable source from the documentary. They are considered the experts in textiles and have wonderful exhibits and fabulous collections. Don't know about web site -- would love to know. Sally Queen, who does what she does because she loves to learn! http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 09:56:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21204 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:56:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA20826; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:05:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA12089 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:03:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id IAA12082 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:03:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from s244166.microweb.net [208.201.244.166] (HELO lisa) by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_00fc_369c_c537_65f5; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:09:27 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113070213.0097aa60@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:02:59 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume Contest etc... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990112161736.006bfdd0@silverspin.net> References: <369BDA76.BE9A466B@serv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel And I would dearly love to feature some of them on my Mining Co. site! At 04:17 PM 1/12/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Karla Sexsmith >I would be willing to do something like this... I have the server space, I >can make the pages, I even have the capability to scan stuff for people if >they can't do it themselves. *********************** lisa scovel historical reenactment guide the mining co. http://reenactment.miningco.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 09:57:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21212 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:57:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA20945; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:07:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA12225 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:05:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA12213 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:05:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [209.48.224.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA25468 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:05:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:03:47 -0500 (EST) From: Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re: mary magdalene In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mara Riley There's a book called (I think) 'The Word According to Eve' about how women have been written out of the Bible -- I think it discusses how Mary Magdalen was confused with a woman (unnamed) who had been a prostitute. It's possible that this was a deliberate effort on the part of the early Church Fathers because Mary Magdalen was thought by some Gnostic sects of Christianity to have been Christ's secret wife. (Yes, that's all very controversial.) Hence the effort to make her 'shameful', so as to quash those sects that revered her. Didn't quite work, though, judging from the statues of Mary that show up in the late Middle Ages/Renaissance, wearing nothing more than her hair (strategically draped, of course). Mara On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Allison Thurman wrote: > > -Poster: "Allison Thurman" > > > Then where did the story in the Bible come from if she wasnt a prostitute? > > Why were they trying to stone her to death and why did Jesus tell her to > > go and sin no more, or whatever it was? > > if i remember correctly she was initially referred to as "the woman out of > whom 7 devils were cast" - ie, perhaps she worshipped a cult and would > therefore be viewed by jesus and his apostles as a sinner - this was later > reinterpreted to mean that she was a prostitute. however, as mentioned > previously any of several marys mentioned in the new testament could have > been the same person. > > (i wont go further, as this is off topic, but if anyone wants documentation > email me privately and i'll scratch it up.) > > > > Sylvia R > allison _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 10:03:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21242 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:03:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA21668; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:13:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA13428 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:11:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA13414 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:11:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [209.48.224.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA26131 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:11:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:09:54 -0500 (EST) From: Mara Riley To: costume newsgroup Subject: Re: H-COST: Incas In-Reply-To: <000101be3ead$f8239b60$ec56accf@s0peladn> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mara Riley On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Penny E. Ladnier wrote: > -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" > > I just watched a really good video on the Inca civilization. It was > originally aired on PBS in 1980, and produced by the BBC. It is titled > Incas (PBS Video 1061). They briefly touched upon the importance of > clothing in their culture. One of the sources credited was The Textile > Museum. The video talked of a person in the 1500's who wrote over 1200 > letters about the society including detailed illustrations of the people > with various occupations in the civilization. Some illustrations are shown > on the video. > > Now for my questions: > 1. Does anyone have an idea which Textile Museum they would be crediting? > Two groups of historians were shown in the video, researching two different > forts, a British group and the Museum of American History. But the credits > stated plainly, The Textile Museum. (snip) It's likely to be The Textile Museum in Washington, DC, which (to my disappointment) specializes in non-European textiles. (Their library does have some European stuff, tho.) I'm afraid I don't have their address/phone number, but they shouldn't be hard to find. Mara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 10:14:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21279 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:14:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA23286; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:24:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA15460 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:22:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA15408 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:22:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [209.48.224.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA27441 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:22:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:20:58 -0500 (EST) From: Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mara Riley That's a new one by me -- I seem to recall reading about Roman women of all classes buying blond wigs or bleaching their hair. Same with later Italy. Of course I don't have a source at hand, but... Considering that the Italian nobility (Middle Ages, of course, not ancient Rome) had a lot of Lombard blood, you'd expect them to have blond hair. Which a number of them do, in paintings. So maybe imitating the nobility was what prompted people to bleach thair hair. (Including ladies of ill repute.) Mara On Mon, 11 Jan 1999, Lynn Downward wrote: > > -Poster: Lynn Downward > > >-Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > > >> > >> -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" > >> Lives of the Courtesans mentions yellow veils in particular as being an > >> identifier for prostitutes in Italy. I'm not sure, but I think it also > >> mentioned that a couple of the city states had legislation in this vein, > >> along with the "no pearls" rule for courtesans, who of course paid no heed > >> to such laws. > >I seem to recall yellow being associated with courtesans from way back in > >ancient Rome. Anyone familiar with that notion? > >SylviA > > > I recall that in either ancient Greece or ancient Rome, prostitutes were > the only women to have blonde hair, but that's the only connection I can > remember. > LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 10:39:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21368 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:39:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA25958; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:47:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA18971 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:45:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA18934 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:45:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [209.48.224.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA00507 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:45:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:44:10 -0500 (EST) From: Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations In-Reply-To: <199901121929.UAA11309@worldonline.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mara Riley On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Henk 't Jong wrote: > According to Joachim Bumke (Hoefische Kultur, 1989) the nobility in the > 12th c was of the opnion that the lower orders should not be allowed to > wear the same dress as they did and be confused with them. They called in > the help of the emperor and in a 'Kaiserchronik' of about 1150, which was > supposed to be a collection of laws by Charlemagne, they had the emperor > ordering peasants to wear only black (!) or grey, no gussets except at the > sides, shoes only made of cowhide, 7 ells of cloth for a shirt and pants of > common boadcloth, no more, etc. For the record: although there are > Carolingian 'capitularia' concerning military dress and equipment, to the > best of my knowledge, there are none about dress. (snip) It's interesting that 7 ells are allotted for shirts, since later in Ireland, the English tried to keep the Irish from using more than 7 ells (I think) of fabric (probably 30" wide) in their _leinte_ (shirts). Which of course were yellow, with no association made to loose morals at all. But people think that a leine is very voluminous, when, considering that the fabric width was narrower, it's actually a reasonable amount of cloth. Mara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 10:40:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21375 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:40:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA26247; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:49:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA19298 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:47:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA19282 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:47:14 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LSFHa03214 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:46:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <39577d32.369cbfb9@aol.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:46:01 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: undergarments Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Anne: I enjoyed your Anne's post on undergarments, particularly the "update" to the 1960s. I am 34 years old, of a generation that never wore anything but basic bra (Bali "natural" ideal) and cotton panties. Girdles, etc., were oddities for old people in the Sears catalogue when I was growing up! Even after I had grown up and gotten interested in vintage clothing, including corsets etc., it didn't occur to me that styles a few years before my birth needed major underwear. I *really* thought those women just had flat stomachs! Now nearing middle age, and having two children, I have realized that my stomach will never be flat again without some serious workouts -- and that it never was all that flat to begin with! This year I was in a wedding and had the humiliating experience of buying various undergaments to look good in my dress. I was surprised to find a vast array of foundation garments -- a good number of them of no use to anyone with even a little extra flesh, but a lot that were quite rigid. Looking at myself in those unforgiving mirrors, I briefly wondered if I ought to wear some of that stuff all the time. I did buy a sort of girdle that I thought I might wear again, but I haven't. I'm just too addicted to comfort. I wonder why I think that corsets were rather charming, but modern girdles are horrible? I love the "New Look" but I'd never wear what those women wore to get it! Are other historic costumers of like opinion, or is it just me? And just how many people wear foundation garments all the time today? Judging from the department store, a lot more than I thought! Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 10:50:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21409 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:50:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA27956; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:00:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA21930 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:58:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from sun.rmci.net (sun.rmci.net [205.162.184.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id IAA21918 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:58:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 26372 invoked from network); 13 Jan 1999 15:53:11 -0000 Received: from pag-di64.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.64) by sun.rmci.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 1999 15:53:11 -0000 Message-ID: <369CC052.A65DFF54@rica.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:48:35 -0500 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Just put a bunch of vintage patterns on eBay. References: <8320d494.3692edda@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jennie Chancey I've been cleaning out the pattern collection again and pulling out doubles. I just put a bunch up on eBay, all of which are from the 1910s to 1920s. You can see them at http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=chanceys. All patterns are "new" old store stock and have never even been opened. Cheers, Jennie -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 10:54:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21455 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:54:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA28866; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:03:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA22692 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:01:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA22605 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:01:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [209.48.224.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA02401 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:01:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:59:35 -0500 (EST) From: Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: undergarments In-Reply-To: <39577d32.369cbfb9@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mara Riley I think modern foundation garments -are- ugly. Having never worn one, I can't say whether it's more or less comfortable than my period stays (1750s), but I think my stays, which are plain linen, are definitely more charming than the lycra-and-elastic monstrosities I've seen. I never wear polyester or fibers that don't breathe next to my skin, so I've never been tempted to buy one, either. Maybe if they made them out of linen, cotton or silk, with some charming ribbons and a touch of lace! Mara On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 Gaelscot@aol.com wrote: > Anne: > > I enjoyed your Anne's post on undergarments, particularly the "update" to the > 1960s. I am 34 years old, of a generation that never wore anything but basic > bra (Bali "natural" ideal) and cotton panties. Girdles, etc., were oddities > for old people in the Sears catalogue when I was growing up! Even after I had > grown up and gotten interested in vintage clothing, including corsets etc., it > didn't occur to me that styles a few years before my birth needed major > underwear. I *really* thought those women just had flat stomachs! > > Now nearing middle age, and having two children, I have realized that my > stomach will never be flat again without some serious workouts -- and that it > never was all that flat to begin with! This year I was in a wedding and had > the humiliating experience of buying various undergaments to look good in my > dress. I was surprised to find a vast array of foundation garments -- a good > number of them of no use to anyone with even a little extra flesh, but a lot > that were quite rigid. Looking at myself in those unforgiving mirrors, I > briefly wondered if I ought to wear some of that stuff all the time. I did buy > a sort of girdle that I thought I might wear again, but I haven't. I'm just > too addicted to comfort. > > I wonder why I think that corsets were rather charming, but modern girdles are > horrible? I love the "New Look" but I'd never wear what those women wore to > get it! Are other historic costumers of like opinion, or is it just me? And > just how many people wear foundation garments all the time today? Judging from > the department store, a lot more than I thought! > > Gail Finke > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 10:59:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21479 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:59:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA00231; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:09:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA24661 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:06:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA24640; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:06:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA02285; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:58:34 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:58:32 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: undergarments In-Reply-To: <39577d32.369cbfb9@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com > > I wonder why I think that corsets were rather charming, but modern girdles are > horrible? I love the "New Look" but I'd never wear what those women wore to > get it! Are other historic costumers of like opinion, or is it just me? And > just how many people wear foundation garments all the time today? Judging from > the department store, a lot more than I thought! Gail, I don't think you're alone. I was a child in the fifties and remember seeing my mother struggle into one of those rubber crotchless girdles with holes in them for air (I guess so you wouldn't sweat to death in it) all the time. Since I grew up with that mentality, my transition to comfort was a slow one. I wore girdles (but not THAT kind) when I got dressed up as a teen and in my first year at college, along with uncomfortable spiked heels. Since I went to college at UC Berkeley, I lost the girdle pretty fast. The heels took longer, especially as I worked in so many offices where I thought you had to have heels to look good in dresses and suits. Actually I still think that, just dont work in offices anymore, so now I cant stand to have to wear heels for very long. Now that I have that middle aged spread, I probably would look better with some foundation, but I'll opt for comfort any day. I dont like wearing anything more than panties and I usually have my bra off by dinner time. Btw, has anyone else noticed that it seems impossible to buy anything but wonder bras these days, you know, the kind with underwires? I dont like sports bras. I just want one of those little nothing kind of bras that were so popular in the 70s that women bought to try to look like they were braless. At least they were comfortable. Anyone know where to find one of those today, or at least something without underwires that doesnt look like one of those Playtex pointy things? Who still wears those? They havent changed since the fifties, I dont think. Sylvia R _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 11:09:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21524 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:09:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA01999; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:18:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA27249 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:16:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from fw2.roguewave.com (firewall-user@fw2.roguewave.com [208.151.233.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA27242; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:16:51 -0700 (MST) Received: by fw2.roguewave.com; id IAA27935; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:12:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com(10.68.4.36) via SMTP by net.indra.com, id smtpd027921; Wed Jan 13 08:12:21 1999 Received: by cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:17:36 -0800 Message-ID: From: Betsy Perry To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: undergarments Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:17:32 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Betsy Perry Not terribly historic, but I've been able to find non-underwire, soft-cup (or is it cupless? Stretch material with no foam lining) brassieres at Target. One good brand is Hanes Her Way. --- Elizabeth Hanes Perry Rogue Wave Software _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 11:12:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21561 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:12:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA02575; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:22:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA26167 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA26059 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:11:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.181] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100Sss-0001Xt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:11:07 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990112132614.00b99da0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990112132614.00b99da0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:28:57 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: pinking chisels In-Reply-To: <7a97f51d.369b062b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >The real joke, I suppose, is that the chisels I used to have for this purpose >were made by one of the finest knifemakers on the planet (not just my >opinion), Jim Hrisoulas, aka Master Atar Baktar. That much talent probably >isn't necessary, although it did mean custom sizes :). Does he make these just for you, or does he make them for anyone who asks/pays? I could sure use one or two of these myself, and I see this person occasionally. If he made them they would look period enough to use in public. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 11:13:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21568 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:13:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA02664; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:22:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA26168 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA26074 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:11:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.181] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100Ssu-0001Xt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:11:08 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990112133510.00b99c20@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990112133510.00b99c20@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:41:22 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours In-Reply-To: <199901121635.IAA02515@smtp.pacifier.com> References: <4.1.19990111213313.00bc6eb0@pop.slip.net> <001a01be3d93$2485fc00$90a06480@dsc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Two problems here: I do Renaissance not really Medieval, and I AM lower class. We do all kinds of things to survive which you upper class folks don't even consider doing (and we have a great time doing them). Non commercial dyers did many things commercial dyers didn't, especially for family use. If pink was fashionable (assuming they even were aware of that fact) they would do what they could to recreate it using whatever they had, including lees of something else and multiple dipping. With whatever level of success. Alternatively, if they had seen the colour and wanted to try to recreate it with home methods, it might not have matched too well anyway. >I think that pink is period but dying with the lees was something >that was avoided. I don't have time to look it up now but I've seen >statutes where it was illegal to sell them, letters where it was >discussed as something to be avoided as low class and numerous things >which indicated that the medievals preferred intense colors requiring >several overdyings to make sure that it was as intense as possible. >True pastels were not popular until late Elizabethan. The pinks that >I have seen in tapestries were not baby pink but intense pinks (deep >roses, brilliant peach, almost fluorescent pinks in some cases.) > Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 11:13:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21572 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:13:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA02743; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:23:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA26195 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:11:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA26084 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:11:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.181] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100Ssv-0001Xt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:11:10 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990112140846.00b9ce20@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990112140846.00b9ce20@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:11:12 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare in Love In-Reply-To: <199901121653.IAA09379@mail.eskimo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows You saw the wrong turquoise/aqua blue, being a dyer. (They didn't look just right to me either.) I saw a smooth ochre-yellow glazed mug with a Ren Faire logo on it, being more of a potter. (He threw a piece of trash into it early on in the film.) someone@eskimo.com writes, in a message sent 08:52 AM 1/12/99 +0000: > >-Poster: someone@eskimo.com > >I went to see it yesterday, and I concur with the other comments I've >seen here -- wonderful movie, wonderful costumes. > >The only thing that caught my eye as a possible false note (and I'm >willing to accept the possibility that it's just my eye, and not >really anything not in period) is the shade of many of the blues used >in the costumes. > >I have extensive experience dyeing with indigo, alone and in >combination with other natural dyes, and many of the blues in the >film didn't fit in with the range I'm accustomed to seeing. For the >most part, they were more in the teal/aqua/turquiose range than I >expected. There was also something (a piece of cloth? a costume?) >hanging on a rack backstage at the theatre that was a clear, >jewel-toned sapphire. > >So, what is the opinion of those on this list in the know? Are those >blues wrong for the period? Was it just my eyes? Possibly a bad >print of the film, with the colors off from what they were when >filmed? Any other ideas? > >Pam Dotson >Everett, WA USA > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 11:14:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21579 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:14:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA02859; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:23:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA26205 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:11:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA26111 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:11:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.181] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100Ssx-0001Xt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:11:11 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990112141225.00b99ae0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990112141225.00b99ae0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:06:55 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: ethnic costume resource books In-Reply-To: <369B9C9E.ADD6BAEE@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows There are other books than Tilke. Look for specific books about garments from the area you want. Look also for books about the embroidery, textiles, or crafts of those areas. Books, for example, about the ikat dying technique are usually illustrated with pictures of ethnic ikat garments. The captions often tell how old the garments are, what age/gender of person wore them, and the name of the village in which they were produced. The best of these books also have old photos of ethnic people wearing these garments, and the jewelry, hats, shoes, etc. which originally went with them. Other than folk dancers, I can't think of any groups which make or wear ethnic costumes. I think this is because one can't 'play' ethnic like one can play Victorian or SCA. Occasionally ethnic garments get reproduced for showing at CostumeCon. Ethnic garments are a big interest for me too. It is my opinion that any garment which looks ethnic to the modern eye is historical, a living fossil. These garments are being replaced almost everywhere by the same garments we homogenized 'un-ethnics' wear, at a loss to the culture which discards them. The few exceptions include India and 'Palestine'. There the traditional ethnic garments are worn daily (if only as signs of cultural pride), and new designs in the same idiom are still evolving and being produced. Christina Conklin writes, in a message sent 11:03 AM 1/12/99 -0800: > >-Poster: Christina Conklin > >First posting to this group . . . > >I am interested in creating historic ethnic costumes, like 16th c. >Mughal robes, traditional Turkish jackets, ceremonial Korean gowns and >the like. > >I have the little book Cut My Cote (long out of print) and am looking at >buying Max Tilke's 1922 book on Oriental Costumes. But it costs over >$100 (also long OOP), and the on-line version at Univ of Indiana just >isn't the same. Is this the best book to get, or are there other >resources people would recommend? I'm interested in all parts of the >world, but particularly Asia, in the largest sense of that word. > >Also are there others out there doing this sort of thing, either for fun >or profit? Any purveyors or web sites you all would recommend?? Many >thanks, > >Christy Conklin > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 11:34:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21647 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:34:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA05032; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:43:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA01333 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:41:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp0-alterdial.uu.net (smtp0-alterdial.UU.NET [192.48.96.28]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA01313 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:41:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from jwilbur1 by smtp0-alterdial.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: 119.pcpool89.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.89.119]) id QQfxzu14606 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:41:30 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:41:50 -0500 Subject: RE: H-COST: undergarments Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" Yup! I get mine at Wal-mart. I think there are a couple of brands that work well. They're not sports bras, but they're pretty substantial. I am rather well-endowed and I was getting sick of underwires poking me and digging into my flesh. The bras I wear now have maybe a little less support than ones with underwires, but I'm so much more comfortable! Now if only I can figure out how to keep the straps from digging into my shoulders.... --Jessica > > -Poster: Betsy Perry > > Not terribly historic, but I've been able to find non-underwire, > soft-cup (or is it cupless? Stretch material with no foam lining) > brassieres at Target. One good brand is Hanes Her Way. > > > --- > Elizabeth Hanes Perry > Rogue Wave Software > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 11:51:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21702 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:51:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA07042; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:00:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA04270 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:58:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id JAA04242 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:58:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from LISA [209.162.71.46] by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_00fc_369c_e012_0e92; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:04:02 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113084824.00963ef0@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:57:31 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: Re: H-COST: undergarments In-Reply-To: <39577d32.369cbfb9@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel I have a couple of the lycra bodyshapers (I call them sucker-inners) that I wear under my more form-fitting clothes and I just love them. I look for ones that are comfortable, of course, but I find the control-top bike short thingies (many have a special tummy panel) serve double duty for a smooth line and keeping my hose up during the day. I also have a couple of the full body ones that I wear under dresses to keep everything 'in place' - they aren't as comfortable as the shorts, but I like them for formal occasions. They key for me is getting them in a large enough size that they smooth, but do not constrict. At 10:46 AM 1/13/99 -0500, you wrote: >I was surprised to find a vast array of foundation garments -- a good >number of them of no use to anyone with even a little extra flesh, but a lot >that were quite rigid. Looking at myself in those unforgiving mirrors, I >briefly wondered if I ought to wear some of that stuff all the time. I did buy >a sort of girdle that I thought I might wear again, but I haven't. I'm just >too addicted to comfort. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 11:57:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21726 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:57:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA07729; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:07:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA05410 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:05:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA05390 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:05:05 -0700 (MST) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DYUYC93W; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:04:41 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:49:37 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare in Love Message-ID: <19990113.105247.25342.42.seamstrix@juno.com> References: <4.1.19990112140846.00b9ce20@pop.slip.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-6,11-14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:11:12 -0800 Carolyn Kayta Barrows writes: > > I saw a smooth ochre-yellow glazed mug with >a Ren Faire logo on it, being more of a potter. (He threw a piece of >trash into it early on in the film.) It wasn't a RenFaire mug, it was a souvenir of Stratford-On-Avon. It was deliberately put there by the writer (Stoppard) to poke fun at the modern Bard-mania. It's a total anachronism. That's all it was ever meant to be. Personally I hope they are selling copies of it in Stratford when I go next month because I'd cough up bucks for something that silly! Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 12:04:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA21766 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:04:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA08730; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:14:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA06553 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:12:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA06536 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:12:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust238.tnt2.sfo3.da.uu.net [153.37.7.238]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA25352 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:12:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369CD4C0.D8D5AC76@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:15:44 -0800 From: Christina Conklin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #36 References: <199901130615.XAA13441@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christina Conklin > Danielle, I'm very interested in these books, and would be grateful if you can give me some bibliographic info. Many thanks. Christy Conklin > - -Poster: Danielle Nunn > > The Topkapi Palace Museum actually published a series of books and one of > them is on textiles. It has a number of photos of surviving caftans from > about 16th century on. If anyone is interested I'll dig out the book and > post the info. > > Cheers, > Danielle > > _________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 12:09:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA21787 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:09:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA09525; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:19:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA07404 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:17:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA07367 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:17:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port1124.koeln.ndh.net [195.227.37.124]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id SAA16043 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:16:58 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36958049.A35DA6C@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 04:49:35 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re:book publication X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B876C9D52995243EE4327E99" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef --------------B876C9D52995243EE4327E99 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Who is the publisher? Did they put their address in the book? If so what > is it? And what is the ISBN? Do you know how an American can buy a copy? > > Thanks for any info, > > Fran Grimble > The publisher of the book is "Karfunkel Verlag" which is a small business that also edits a German magazine for medieval reenactment. The ISBN-Nr. is 3-9805642-2-3. To order it, I would try the German branch of amazon.com first, that`s http://www.amazon.de If they don`t have it ,ask me again, I could order it here for you and send it over. It costs 43,-DM, that`s about $ 26 (I would accept dollar payment). > Are there good photos/pictures in it? > There are eight detailed colour plates in it showing men´s and women`s wear as well as weaponry. I think Anah is going to put two of these plates onto her website as I sent her copies. But there are also little drawings which illustrate how to do special stitches that were used during this period and patterns of basic garments are given (mainly for men). This is going to be the first book in a series, so I believe that other editions will folllow dealing with earlier and later medieval periods. I`ll keep you up to date! Diana P.S. : I haven`t heard of these periodicals yet, must be an older thing... --------------B876C9D52995243EE4327E99 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
Who is the publisher?  Did they put their address in the book?  If so what
is it?   And what is the ISBN?  Do you know how an American can buy a copy?

Thanks for any info,

Fran Grimble
The publisher of the book is "Karfunkel Verlag" which is a small business that also
edits a German magazine for medieval reenactment.
The ISBN-Nr. is 3-9805642-2-3.

To order it, I would try the German branch of amazon.com first, that`s
http://www.amazon.de
If they don`t have it ,ask me again, I could order it here for you and send it over.
It costs 43,-DM, that`s about $ 26 (I would accept dollar payment).
  

Are there good photos/pictures in it?
There are eight detailed colour plates in it showing men´s and women`s wear as well
as weaponry.
I think Anah is going to put two of these plates onto her website as I sent her copies.
But there are also little drawings which illustrate how to do special stitches that
were used during this period and patterns of basic garments are given (mainly for
men).
This is going to be the first book in a series, so I believe that other editions will folllow
dealing with earlier and later medieval periods.
I`ll keep you up to date!

Diana

P.S. : I haven`t heard of these periodicals yet, must be an older thing...
  --------------B876C9D52995243EE4327E99-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 12:28:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA21854 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:28:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA11950; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:37:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA10424 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:35:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.iastate.edu (mailhub.iastate.edu [129.186.1.102]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA10409 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:35:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumes.center.iastate.edu (costumes.center.iastate.edu [129.186.127.4]) by mailhub.iastate.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA24909 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:35:36 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199901131735.LAA24909@mailhub.iastate.edu> X-Sender: djnash@pop-2.iastate.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:36:22 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Doris J. Nash" Subject: Re: H-COST: undergarments--modern (OT) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Doris J. Nash" At 08:58 AM 1/13/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Sylvia Rognstad >Btw, has anyone else noticed that it seems impossible to buy anything but >wonder bras these days, you know, the kind with underwires? I dont like >sports bras. I just want one of those little nothing kind of bras that >were so popular in the 70s that women bought to try to look like they were >braless. At least they were comfortable. Anyone know where to find one >of those today, or at least something without underwires that doesnt look >like one of those Playtex pointy things? Who still wears those? They >havent changed since the fifties, I dont think. >Sylvia R > I'm a great fan of Just My Size bras. They have a variety of styles--some underwired, some not. And reasonably priced, too! Doris ============== Doris Nash Costume Shop Supervisor, Iowa State University "...with ruffs and cuffs, and farthingales and things." --Shakespeare, The Taming of the Shrew _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 12:59:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA21988 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:59:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA16313; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:09:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA16824 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:07:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA16801 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:07:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA23176 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:07:27 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp189-134.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.134]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00950 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:07:09 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199901131807.TAA00950@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_H-COST:_Hello=2C_I=B4m_new?= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:37:00 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands > Henk, you're forgetting us Canadians! Oooops!!! I'm sorry!!! (A large blush is spreading from my bottom upwards...) Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 14:06:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA22318 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:06:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA25492; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:16:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA08684 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:14:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA08654 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:14:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p30.directcon.net [206.170.184.79]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA05350 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:09:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:09:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901131909.LAA05350@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: pinking chisels Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >>The real joke, I suppose, is that the chisels I used to have for this purpose >>were made by one of the finest knifemakers on the planet (not just my >>opinion), Jim Hrisoulas, aka Master Atar Baktar. Geez, Maggie...who carved your kitchen spoons, Mr. Chippendale? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 14:13:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA22363 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:13:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA26584; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:23:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA08052 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:11:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA07980 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:10:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p30.directcon.net [206.170.184.79]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA04997 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:06:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:06:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901131906.LAA04997@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: undergarments Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson I'm just old enough (41) to have been subjected to panty girdles in my early teens. I remember them as being agonizingly uncomfortable. This may have been due to my mom's tendacy to buy my clothes a size too small "because you'll lose the weight soon"--hah! but some of it, I'm sure, has to do with the style. When my sister had a 1930's wedding, my bias cut dress required a girdle. I bought an old fashioned "tube" girdle with garter clips and was surprised how comfortable it was. In fact, I took to wearing it under my work skirts quite happily, even though I was in the first months of pregnancy. Tight waistbands were unberable, but the allover pressure from the girdle was rather soothing. It's interesting how many people have their first experiences with serious support garments when they're needed for a wedding. I guess for many of us, that's the only time we dress so formally--in modern clothing, at least. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 15:38:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22825 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:38:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA08540; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA25740 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:45:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA25723 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:45:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.31.120 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:45:08 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: RE: Kilt jacket, shirt, and Jabot Pattern. Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:48:59 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be3f36$3775bf40$201fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199901081619.KAA01287@host1.texramp.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" While their WebPages offer no patterns, this is a custom maker of several historical styles of Scots jackets, including the Sheriffmuir kilt jacket. The WebPages include front and back views of their products. The pictures are awesome, as are all of their handmade products and accessories. You might inquire about the availability of a pattern to your measurements at Tartan Web Ratchill, Broughton, Peeblesshire, Scotland ML12 6HH Telephone: +44 (0) 1899 830 239 Fax: +44 (0) 1899 830 461 email: enquiries@tartanweb.co.uk Their jacket WebPages are available at http://www.scottish-selection.com/tweb/jackets.htm. Made up, the Sheriffmuir is one of their more expensive jackets at $457. Note that if you want it to close in front, it's called something else, and they have that too. They have less expensive jacket styles. In any event, I can't offer any help with the pattern other than referring you to Amazon Drygoods catalog available at 1-800-798-7979. They have a number of riding coats, cadet coats, and frock coat patterns, which you could modify with the Sheriffmuir style jacket skirts of your own devising. Or, if you prefer, try the pattern generating engine at http://www.panix.com/~aqn/tailoring/drafting/index.html, and follow the directions to enter the site for body and sleeve (again, you'll have to develop your own skirts).This site also has two terrific old-fashioned men's vest patterns on it which it will custom- generate a pattern to your measurements. http://www.piobmhor.com/doublet.html is another Scots company with bagpiper's gear for sale, including a variety of sleeved and sleeveless doublets, very similar to the Sheriffmuir to give you some alternatives. They offer regalia for any jacket you make yourself, the braids, trims and other trim which will give it that authentic touch at http://www.piobmhor.com/regalia.html. The shirt varies by the century you are trying to portray, but prior to the mid- to late- 19th Century, something of simple rectangles will be appropriate. The jabot is about 5-7 feet long, six-eight inches wide after hemming, lace at ends optional. It is separate from the shirt. The shirt may have ruffles or not, your choice. They are sewn onto each side of the neck opening. This company above also sells shirts and jabots, too. The Kirke's Lambs Uniforms website at http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/1663/kirkes_uniform.html has a good shirt and jabot pattern (they call the jabot a cravat, but it's virtually the same thing.) The shirt pattern at http://http://ares.redsword.com/dduperault/shirt.htm has good measuring info and directions, but gather your shirt all in at the neck, not across the top of the shoulders. If you want a true collar, which isn't necessary if you wear a jabot, add about 3" to the width of the collar pieces on this site and make it up the same way. Not quite what you asked for, but I hope this helps. . . . Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sterling Ranne Sent: Friday, January 08, 1999 11:20 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: WTD: Kilt jacket pattern. -Poster: "Sterling Ranne" I'm looking for a pattern for a Sheriffmuir kilt jacket. Also looking for a pattern for the jabot shirt that is worn with it. I can find the Prince Charlie jacket but much prefer the looks of the Sheriffmuir. Any help finding patterns greatly appreciated. Sterling 92.5% Pure sranne@hydroseal.com ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 15:52:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22883 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:52:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11055; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:02:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA27777 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA27677 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100XKg-00004j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:56:06 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113120132.00bbfc50@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:02:20 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: ethnic costume resource books In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990112221609.009473c0@mail.interlog.com> References: <000501be3e75$a88d97a0$551fffd0@default> <369B9C9E.ADD6BAEE@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >The Topkapi Palace Museum actually published a series of books and one of >them is on textiles. It has a number of photos of surviving caftans from >about 16th century on. If anyone is interested I'll dig out the book and >post the info. > Please post this. I am drooling in my (ethnic) shoes in anticipation. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 15:53:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22893 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:53:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11127; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:03:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA27774 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA27700 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100XKj-00004j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:56:09 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113123701.00b5bac0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:38:32 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sicily has a lot of natural blonde people, again because of their history of being invaded by blonde conquerors. >Considering that the Italian nobility (Middle Ages, of course, not ancient >Rome) had a lot of Lombard blood, you'd expect them to have blond hair. >Which a number of them do, in paintings. So maybe imitating the nobility >was what prompted people to bleach thair hair. (Including ladies of ill >repute.) Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 15:53:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22897 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:53:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11197; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:03:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA27768 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA27669 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100XKe-00004j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:56:05 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113115523.00bbe540@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:00:28 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Incas In-Reply-To: <000101be3ead$f8239b60$ec56accf@s0peladn> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >3. Why is this civilization not touched on more in history classes? The >Incas were very advanced in architecture, agriculture, and textile develop. >I remember in grade school the Incas was touched upon briefly (for the gold >and European invasion). In my art history courses, one professor showed two >slides of their housing. In my costume history classes the Incas were never >covered. Because 'history' means European history, or did till recently. The latest thing (and about time) is to offer history classes about other parts of the world like parts of Africa and South America, etc. These are often found, in California at least, under some kind of ethnic studies department. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 15:54:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22908 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:54:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11274; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:03:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA27637 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA27626 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100XKX-00004j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:55:58 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113110945.00b5e2e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:12:27 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: requesting suggestions for a wedding dress In-Reply-To: <19990112191348.5980.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Round and busty, otherwise known as 'Reubenesque', looks very good in anything Reuben painted, and that's pre-1700. I can identify with the ladies he painted nude (which is why I am dieting this year). But they sure look good in the dresses he painted. >I'm getting married this summer (*gasp!*) and I would really like to >have a dress that I could use again. My future husband will be in Black >Tails, top hat, the whole shebang. I'd like something that would look >really good with this. I think Edwardian would look nice, but I'm more >interested in something pre 1700. > >I was wondering if any of you have suggestions? > >Oh yeah, my body type is round and busty. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 15:54:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22912 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:54:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11336; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:04:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA28609 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:01:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA28582 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:01:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id HAA31717 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:31:34 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA08484; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:31:34 +1030 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:31:33 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: undergarments In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Mara Riley wrote: > > -Poster: Mara Riley > > I think modern foundation garments -are- ugly. Having never worn one, I > can't say whether it's more or less comfortable than my period stays > (1750s), but I think my stays, which are plain linen, are definitely more > charming than the lycra-and-elastic monstrosities I've seen. I never wear > polyester or fibers that don't breathe next to my skin, so I've never been > tempted to buy one, either. Maybe if they made them out of linen, cotton > or silk, with some charming ribbons and a touch of lace! > This could be a good reason....perhaps the lack of individual fit is another. I own two pieces of underwear that might be considered as modern control garments I suppose (though only light control), both full body. One is lightly boned and horribly uncomfortable. The bones seem in just the right places to poke me. The other is of lycra and has a nice smoothing effect. It's far more comfortable, but I wouldn't wear it in hot weather or for serious body-shaping. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 15:55:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22920 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:55:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11416; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:04:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA27762 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA27649 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100XKd-00004j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:56:03 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113114444.00b645a0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:53:43 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan In-Reply-To: <001001be3e91$b7dc4a00$4341cfcf@gia-g> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I recently did a elizabethan for my 3 yr old that I am glad to say was one >of the winners of the "Well Dressed Child" contest at Twelfth Night, this >last weekend. I made an Elizabethan for my oldest kid for her first Twelfth Night, when she was just learning to walk. I made the drum farthingale out of a circular-top baby walker from a thrift store. I gave her dress leading strings, and used them in their period function as kid leashes when she was in the walker. I was able to pick her up out of the walker when she needed picking up, so I had to make the walker a petticoat/cover. It was fun. Wheeled baby walkers are period from at least the 1400's, as shown in a woodcut in the Dover history of woodcuts. They even occur in doll houses from the 1600's, by which time they have casters! Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 15:55:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22924 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:55:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11678; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:05:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA27787 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA27712 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100XKk-00004j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:56:10 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113124005.00bc8590@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:54:00 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: 1940's-50's undergarments In-Reply-To: <39577d32.369cbfb9@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I wonder why I think that corsets were rather charming, but modern girdles are >horrible? I love the "New Look" but I'd never wear what those women wore to >get it! Are other historic costumers of like opinion, or is it just me? And >just how many people wear foundation garments all the time today? Judging from >the department store, a lot more than I thought! I am old enough to have worn girdles and I occasionally wear historical corsets. I think the major difference between these two kinds of foundation garments is the length. Corsets are long enough allow for the flesh they displace, and most girdles are not. This means that it shows and must be dealt with, like by a long line bra. The extra flesh gets pinched in between the two garments. In addition there are other discomfort factors. Corsets are worn with an undergarment to reduce chafing and girdles are not. Corsets stay in place, and girdles must be tugged at occasionally. The best solution for 1940's-50's is to wear a one-piece garment which includes bra and girdle in the same garment. These are 40's-50's period things, and are enough like a corset that if you can wear a Victorian/Edwardian one you can successfully wear one of them. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 15:55:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22928 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:55:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11574; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:05:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA27779 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA27668 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100XKb-00004j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:56:02 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113113800.00bba6c0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:44:14 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume Contest etc... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990112161736.006bfdd0@silverspin.net> References: <369BDA76.BE9A466B@serv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>A list web site would be a great place to post pics of stuff we do. I just >>don't know if I have the capabilities. > >I would be willing to do something like this... I have the server space, I >can make the pages, I even have the capability to scan stuff for people if >they can't do it themselves. Please do this? Big please (see below) PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLEASE PLEASEPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 16:00:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22948 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:00:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA12241; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:10:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA00113 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:07:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA29975 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:07:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id HAA31753 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:37:44 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA08512; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:37:43 +1030 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:37:43 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re: mary magdalene In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Mara Riley wrote: > Didn't quite work, though, judging from the statues of Mary that show up > in the late Middle Ages/Renaissance, wearing nothing more than her hair > (strategically draped, of course). Are you sure that was Mary Magdalene? This is the common way of depicting St Agnes who was popular in the Middle Ages I believe. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 16:06:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22980 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:06:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA13074; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:16:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01370 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:14:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA01337 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:13:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.185] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100Xbs-0000zH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:13:53 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113130726.00be6ca0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:08:51 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: undergarments In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows This is why I was asking about those modern bra/corset things a while ago. I still haven't solved the problem. The best I can do is remove the underwires and slide the straps farther out on my shoulders. >Yup! I get mine at Wal-mart. I think there are a couple of brands that work >well. They're not >sports bras, but they're pretty substantial. I am rather well-endowed and I >was getting sick >of underwires poking me and digging into my flesh. The bras I wear now have >maybe a little >less support than ones with underwires, but I'm so much more comfortable! >Now if only I >can figure out how to keep the straps from digging into my shoulders.... > >--Jessica > >> >> -Poster: Betsy Perry >> >> Not terribly historic, but I've been able to find non-underwire, >> soft-cup (or is it cupless? Stretch material with no foam lining) >> brassieres at Target. One good brand is Hanes Her Way. >> Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 16:06:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22979 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:06:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA13077; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:16:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01371 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:14:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA01351 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:13:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.185] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100Xbu-0000zH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:13:55 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113130949.00be5380@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:10:40 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Shakespeare in Love In-Reply-To: <19990113.105247.25342.42.seamstrix@juno.com> References: <4.1.19990112140846.00b9ce20@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >> I saw a smooth ochre-yellow glazed mug with >>a Ren Faire logo on it, being more of a potter. (He threw a piece of >>trash into it early on in the film.) >It wasn't a RenFaire mug, it was a souvenir of Stratford-On-Avon. It was >deliberately put there by the writer (Stoppard) to poke fun at the modern >Bard-mania. It's a total anachronism. That's all it was ever meant to be. >Personally I hope they are selling copies of it in Stratford when I go >next month because I'd cough up bucks for something that silly! Even I knew it HAD to be somebody's joke... Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 16:07:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22989 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:07:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA13393; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:17:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01708 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:15:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id OAA01693 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:15:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from LISA [209.162.71.46] by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_00fc_369d_1c4d_a22c; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:21:01 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113131141.0098f790@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:14:24 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume Contest etc... In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990113113800.00bba6c0@pop.slip.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19990112161736.006bfdd0@silverspin.net> <369BDA76.BE9A466B@serv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel In the meantime, I'd love to do an article for my site about the list's creations if I could get pictures and descriptions of items... It's a place to start, anyway. I can also scan stuff for those who don't have scanners. At 11:44 AM 1/13/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>I would be willing to do something like this... I have the server space, I >>can make the pages, I even have the capability to scan stuff for people if >>they can't do it themselves. > >Please do this? Big please (see below) > >PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE >PLEASE PLEASE >PLEASE PLEASE >PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 16:33:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23340 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:33:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA16803; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:43:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA06100 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:40:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA06090 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:40:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-91.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.91]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id NAA14963 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:40:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369CA3A2.A9807E0B@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:46:13 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re:book publication References: <36958049.A35DA6C@ndh.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings good gentles, Fran had asked: >> Who is the publisher? Did they put their address in the book? If so what >> is it? And what is the ISBN? Do you know how an American can buy a copy? Diana replied: > The publisher of the book is "Karfunkel Verlag" which is a small business > that also edits a German magazine for medieval reenactment. > The ISBN-Nr. is 3-9805642-2-3. > > To order it, I would try the German branch of amazon.com first, that`s > http://www.amazon.de I was hoping to sweep in and save the day, but it turned out to be more of a good news/bad news game. I checked last night. The good news is that there is indeed a German version of Amazon.com. The browser interface is almost identical to the American version. If you don't speak German (or not very well), you can open up two windows and use the different language versions side-by-side. The bad news is that they don't have this book (or some of the others that I'm looking for). Most of the others I was looking for are in the $100 range. :-( > If they don`t have it ,ask me again, I could order it here for you and > send it over. It costs 43,-DM, that`s about $ 26 (I would accept dollar > payment). Ach, Diana mein wunderschoene Leibling! ;-) > This is going to be the first book in a series, so I believe that other > editions will folllow dealing with earlier and later medieval periods. > I`ll keep you up to date! I'm drooling already!! In anticipation, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 16:40:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23435 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:40:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA17789; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:50:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA07245 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:47:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA07221 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:47:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from 38.29.61.132 (ip132.phoenix8.az.pub-ip.psi.net [38.29.61.132]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA16270 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:47:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369CB20F.7C21@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:47:42 +0000 From: "S.B. McDaniel" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0-C-AICK1-2 (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Blonde Prostitutes References: <199901120140.SAA15591@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "S.B. McDaniel" Mon, 11 Jan 1999, Lynn Downward wrote: > > > I recall that in either ancient Greece or ancient Rome, prostitutes >were the only women to have blonde hair, but that's the only >connection I can remember. LynnD > Considering that the Italian noOnbility (Middle Ages, of course, not >ancient Rome) had a lot of Lombard blood, you'd expect them to have >blond hair. Which a number of them do, in paintings. So maybe >imitating the nobility was what prompted people to bleach thair hair. (Including ladies of ill repute.) Mara I'd tend to agree with Mara. There were periods of intense fashions for blonde hair in Ancient Rome, and one would expect prostitutes to follow these fashions. I don't know about "blonde" prostitutes in ancient Greece, though there were natural blondes in that population too. Sandy McDaniel (Yes, a blonde- doesn't that explain a lot?) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 16:51:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23571 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:51:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11796; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:06:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA27764 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA27635 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100XKZ-00004j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:56:00 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113112354.00b63690@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:37:38 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: Colours, laws against In-Reply-To: <199901121635.IAA02515@smtp.pacifier.com> References: <4.1.19990111213313.00bc6eb0@pop.slip.net> <001a01be3d93$2485fc00$90a06480@dsc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >> I keep hearing the one about pink not being period, but I never believed >> that one. It's too easy to get, if only by dying with the lees of the red. > >I think that pink is period but dying with the lees was something >that was avoided. I don't have time to look it up now but I've seen >statutes where it was illegal to sell them, That there are statutes against any practice tells us that somebody had been doing the proscribed thing. Human nature tells us that not everybody stops doing something the minute it becomes against the law, especially if there's a market for it. This seems to be a social class question. I can't believe the lower classes didn't use all the lees they had to get any colours people of their time could imagine. (Not that I believe they could imagine all the colours I can imagine.) And there had to be some dying operations too small or too non-commercial for the authorities to notice. That would explain why peasant garb is so many different colours of brownish, yellowish, and greenish. letters where it was >discussed as something to be avoided as low class and numerous things >which indicated that the medievals preferred intense colors requiring >several overdyings to make sure that it was as intense as possible. >True pastels were not popular until late Elizabethan. The pinks that >I have seen in tapestries were not baby pink but intense pinks (deep >roses, brilliant peach, almost fluorescent pinks in some cases.) > Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 16:55:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23635 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:55:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA19366; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:05:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA09835 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:03:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA09793 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:02:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.58.219 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:02:29 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: ethnic costume resource books Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:05:34 -0500 Message-ID: <000401be3f41$05bc4040$201fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990113120132.00bbfc50@pop.slip.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I saw the Topkapi Textiles book when I was in Turkey, and it was enormously expensive and insufficient content for my taste. A coffee table book. There a lot of full page photos of the actual silk fabric, showing the weave, which was not hugely unusual, just fine. So I guess if you want magnified photos of fabric it's OK, but really lacking something I thought for the price. Turkish sultans typically wore caftans with enormous patterns on them, typically repeating only three times from hem to collar. Some are smaller, but still no smaller than the size of a big fist. Hugely geometric, the most of the patterns in the book do not rely on the weave for their pattern or beauty like a detailed plaid or fruit and flower brocade. So I thought all the expensive close-up detail was sort of a waste. No interior photos of the garments that I recall. The silk woven or maybe tablet woven or passementerie braids and covered buttons benefit from the close-up photography, but there is still a lot of book and price for the content. ILL this one before you buy it. I didn't see the other books in the series, but am also interested in the references. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 3:02 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: ethnic costume resource books -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >The Topkapi Palace Museum actually published a series of books and one of >them is on textiles. It has a number of photos of surviving caftans from >about 16th century on. If anyone is interested I'll dig out the book and >post the info. > Please post this. I am drooling in my (ethnic) shoes in anticipation. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 16:57:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23667 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:57:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11863; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:06:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA27769 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA27690 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:56:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100XKh-00004j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:56:08 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990113120427.00bbc240@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:34:07 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: hand-me-downs In-Reply-To: <369C67DC.9A0@mc.net> References: <199901130615.XAA13441@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I read somewhere that a lot of nobility would pass on their "old" >(already wore it once? :-)) garments to "lesser" nobility, servants and >the like... Seems to me that some of the sturdier garments could have >been hand-me-downed enough times to make it to the middle classes. And >yes, the reds would fade - I've had that happen plenty with *modern* >dyes! One of the 'perks' of being a servant was getting these hand-me-downs. These would either be remodeled and worn, or sold to a used clothing dealer. Often trim from one garment was reused on another garment. It doesn't take more than one or two remodelings before a dress is completely used up. This is why more period bodices than period skirts have survived. And fashion changes with time, so when unfashionable garments are handed down either they get remade into fashionable ones or they get worn by less fashionable people. Of course the jewels would not be handed down with the dress. My guess is that the lesser nobility would have used up these garments before they ever got as far as the middle class since the garments wouldn't have survived more than a couple of handings. And a middle class woman would have to be careful where she wore a second-hand dress fancy enough to have belonged to a noble lady, so she'd have to be careful not to buy something too fancy for her class. (OK, I can see her wanting some upward mobility and buying something a teensy bit above her usual class...) Davenport writes that James I 's queen inherited Elizabeth I 's wardrobe, and had some pieces remodeled for herself (ill.1469, p.561-2). Davenport shows a used clothing dealer in a 'dance of death' set of pictures from 1486 (ills.899-902, p.344). She's as overdressed as a modern flea market antique dealer (two necklaces, two pouches, a belt with a clasp, a headdress jewel and another jewel on her sleeve). There are seven contemporary women to compare her with. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 16:58:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23700 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:58:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA19762; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:09:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA10604 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:06:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from dillinger.io.com (ches@dillinger.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA10580 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:06:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by dillinger.io.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA22763 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:06:32 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: dillinger.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:06:32 -0600 (CST) From: ches To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: H-COST: Gloves (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ches If anyone lives in austin texas that makes gloves this lady could use your help. I normally do not do out of town weddings because too many things go wrong. Let me know if you all can help her. Ches ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:02:36 -0600 From: cayoung@mail.utexas.edu To: ches@io.com Subject: Gloves Help! I found your glove website while desperately looking for someone to make a custom pair of long satin gloves for my sister. She is getting married here in Austin on February 6, and her dress is an unusual shade of ivory. We have been unable to find any gloves to match. The dress maker will sell us the fabric for gloves - but I can't find anyone who makes them. Do you make gloves for other people? Is it hopeless?? Any help, advice, etc. that you can offer would be greatly appreciated. In fact, if you are willing to talk on the phone, please send me your number and I will call you. Thank you, C. Young _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 17:02:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23763 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:02:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA20276; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:12:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA09413 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:01:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from jezebel.newdream.net (root@jezebel.newdream.net [207.155.127.148]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA09341 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:00:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from acc-1.imag.net (acc-1.imag.net [204.244.221.221]) by jezebel.newdream.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id OAA20906 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:00:37 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990113140122.006c7950@silverspin.net> X-Sender: karla@silverspin.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:01:22 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Karla Sexsmith Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume Contest etc... In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990113113800.00bba6c0@pop.slip.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19990112161736.006bfdd0@silverspin.net> <369BDA76.BE9A466B@serv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Karla Sexsmith >> >>I would be willing to do something like this... I have the server space, I >>can make the pages, I even have the capability to scan stuff for people if >>they can't do it themselves. > >Please do this? Big please (see below) Ok! Is the consensus that this is ok for me to do? But I need input from the list members! Pictures, articles, etc... do we want a member section? I can do the design, but to be honest, I'd only been on the list a day when I volunteered for this :) Although, I've been on it before, so I'm not completely new, and I've been in the SCA for about 2 years, so I know some about costuming... but my strength is in webdesign. I'm sure I can come up with lots of links and stuff, but you guys will have to help provide content... And if anyone wants to take advantage of my scanning services, email me privately for my mailing address. Karla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 17:12:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23919 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:12:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA21548; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:22:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA12819 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:19:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA12813 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:19:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from [194.222.199.37] (helo=montgomerie.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 100YdZ-0005fl-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:19:42 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:18:03 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990113114444.00b645a0@pop.slip.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jean Waddie In message <4.1.19990113114444.00b645a0@pop.slip.net>, Carolyn Kayta Barrows writes > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > >>I recently did a elizabethan for my 3 yr old that I am glad to say was one >>of the winners of the "Well Dressed Child" contest at Twelfth Night, this >>last weekend. > >I made an Elizabethan for my oldest kid for her first Twelfth Night, when >she was just learning to walk. I made the drum farthingale out of a >circular-top baby walker from a thrift store. I gave her dress leading >strings, and used them in their period function as kid leashes when she was >in the walker. I was able to pick her up out of the walker when she needed >picking up, so I had to make the walker a petticoat/cover. It was fun. > >Wheeled baby walkers are period from at least the 1400's, as shown in a >woodcut in the Dover history of woodcuts. They even occur in doll houses >from the 1600's, by which time they have casters! > >A quick off-topic note - one of the historic houses in Edinburgh has one of these baby walkers, probably about 17th century. There has been a lot in the news recently about baby walkers causing injuries by children falling down stairs in them, or pulling things down on top of them. The period one shows clearly that modern ones are missing the point - the baby walker is square, and its base is wider than the doorways of the room or the child's reach. Its function is to stop the child going where it shouldn't. Jean >Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 17:26:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA24123 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:26:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA23339; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:36:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA15289 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:34:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA15262 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:33:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13963 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:33:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369D1F6B.2314808@serv.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:34:20 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: H-COST on line References: <3.0.1.32.19990112161736.006bfdd0@silverspin.net> <369BDA76.BE9A466B@serv.net> <3.0.1.32.19990113140122.006c7950@silverspin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True What a fantastic offer! Let's change the subject head line. :) Cynthia > Ok! Is the consensus that this is ok for me to do? > But I need input from the list members! Pictures, articles, etc... do we > want a member section? -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 17:48:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA24431 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:48:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA25824; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:58:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA19281 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:55:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from m20.boston.juno.com (m20.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.190]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA19239 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:55:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mor-plentyn@juno.com) by m20.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DYVLDYUL; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:54:36 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:01:48 -0800 Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #36 Message-ID: <19990113.143340.-116567.0.mor-plentyn@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-60 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: mor-plentyn@juno.com (Carmen J Beaudry) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: mor-plentyn@juno.com (Carmen J Beaudry) I saw your child with a couple others also suitably dressed playing ring-around-the-rosy in the lobby. It was one of the magic moments that made the event for me. Melusine d'Argent >- -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" > >Greetings, list! > >I recently did a elizabethan for my 3 yr old that I am glad to say was >one >of the winners of the "Well Dressed Child" contest at Twelfth Night, >this >last weekend. > >I made it out of a black silk (well, I got the silk cheap...) with a >pansy >motif woven in damask style. Using one of the dresses in QEWU as a >guide, I >did the sleeves out of white taffeta with black flocking. The sleeves >were >puffy at the head and fitted at the wrist. Also I had hanging >sleeves, >lined with the white taffeta. The hanging sleeves hung to the hem. I >hand >stitched the gold trim around the edges of the hanging sleeves and on >the >front of the gown (diagonally from neckline corners to waist point). >The >bodice of the gown is fully lined and interlined with horsehair >interfacing. >If I hadn't taken ill I would had time to do a proper corset and >farthingale >for her. Those will be next. > >I also did cartridge pleating for the first time and could have shot >myself >for not doing it before! It's easy and I found the drape of the skirt >to be >just what I was hoping it would do. I plan on doing it on all my >Italian >rens from now on, too! > >The chemise I gathered the fullness of the neckline and sleeves into a >band >with a pleated ruffle. I handstitched the band onto the body of the >chemise >and liked doing that as well. I found I was able to control the >gathering >much better than doing by machine. I also handstitched the ties into >the >bands. > >I cheated and used my serger for the long seam of the skirt. > >The next elizabethan I plan to make I will do a french seam on the >skirt. > >Gia/Giacinta >costuming nut ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 18:02:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA24664 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:02:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA27508; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:13:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA22270 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:10:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA22216 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:10:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip220-6.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.6]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA23505 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:09:55 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990113175946.009067c0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:59:46 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: RE: H-COST: ethnic costume resource books In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990113120132.00bbfc50@pop.slip.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19990112221609.009473c0@mail.interlog.com> <000501be3e75$a88d97a0$551fffd0@default> <369B9C9E.ADD6BAEE@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >>The Topkapi Palace Museum actually published a series of books and one of >>them is on textiles. It has a number of photos of surviving caftans from >>about 16th century on. If anyone is interested I'll dig out the book and >>post the info. >Please post this. I am drooling in my (ethnic) shoes in anticipation. Well here it is: The Topkapi Saray Museum Costumes, Embroideries and other Textiles translated, expanded and edited by J.M. Rogers from the original Turkish by Hulye Tezcan and Selma Delibas (with an umlaut over the "u" and a vergule under the last "s") A New York Graphic Society Book Little, Brown and Company Boston, c 1986 ISBN: 0-8212-1634-1 Library of Congress #: 86-61004 Although you don't see the insides, you can still derive a great deal of detail from what you do see. I personally really like the book, the photos are WONDERFUL. Enjoy. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 18:10:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA24838 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:10:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA28580; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:20:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA23527 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA23506 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:17:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.out) with ESMTP id PAA21803 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:16:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369D2734.187C3DB5@best.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:07:32 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume Contest etc... References: <3.0.1.32.19990112161736.006bfdd0@silverspin.net> <369BDA76.BE9A466B@serv.net> <3.0.1.32.19990113140122.006c7950@silverspin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press > > > Ok! Is the consensus that this is ok for me to do? What exactly are you planning? > > > But I need input from the list members! Pictures, articles, etc... do we > want a member section? I would suggest including a page with information on the charter of h-costume, instructions on how to sign on (maybe an automatic sign-on), so people surfing the web hear about the list and can join it. Also a page of links to costume-related web sites owned by members. Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 18:28:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25113 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:28:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA24616; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:47:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA17373 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:45:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA17344 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:45:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13989 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:45:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369D220B.FECAC7C4@serv.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:45:31 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Colours, laws against References: <4.1.19990111213313.00bc6eb0@pop.slip.net> <001a01be3d93$2485fc00$90a06480@dsc> <4.1.19990113112354.00b63690@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > >> I keep hearing the one about pink not being period, but I never believed > >> that one. It's too easy to get, if only by dying with the lees of the red. I have a weaver/dyer friend and her favorite in period (SCA) color is madder pink. Cynthia -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 18:45:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25330 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:45:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA02527; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:55:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA29539 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:52:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from tor-smtp2.netcom.ca (tor-smtp2.netcom.ca [207.181.101.101]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA29531 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:52:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (trt-on26-46.netcom.ca [207.181.102.46]) by tor-smtp2.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA15042 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:52:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <008001be3f50$7ca87160$2e66b5cf@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: Subject: H-COST: Yellow = Prostitute Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:57:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" Okay, to continue the yellow question, I got out _Lives of the Courtesans_ by Lynne Lawner again. "An interesting characteristic of some Magdalene paintings is the presence of the yellow shawl courtesans were required by law to wear as an insignia of their profession: it was similar to the yellow stars and armbands that have identified Jews through the centuries as protected or persecuted pariahs. By the sixteenth century, in Venice and many other places, courtesans no longer had to wear the yellow veil, but procuresses wore them, and painters evidently did not forget that courtesans had been subjected to this ignominy." p. 178 Here's an example of Venetian sumptuary laws from 1562 (p. 25, same book): "Prostitutes of this city are forbidden to wear gold, silver, or silk, except for caps made of pure silk. They are not to wear chains, rings set with precious stones, or any other kind of ring or earring. In addition, they are not to wear any jewels, real or false, and this applies both inside and outside their houses, even when they are outside the city. Furnishings must comply in every way to the law. There should not be anything of silk in the house. Forbidden are tapestries, fancy materials on the walls, elaborate headboards (spalliere), decorated chests, gilded leathers (cuori d' oro). Instead, prostitutes are to use only Bergamasque or Brescian materials (rough materials manufactured on the mainland, mainly for export), fifty percent wool, plainly striped or coloured as they are nowadays. They are not allowed to slash these materials (in order to insert, ribbon-style, more precious ones); if they do, they will be fined 10 ducats the first time and banished the next time." A cursory glance at the relevant portraiture of the time shows that these rules were not obeyed in the slightest. Eve Harris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 18:48:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25367 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:48:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA02756; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:58:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA00137 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:55:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA29997 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:55:26 -0700 (MST) From: Seton1355@aol.com Received: from Seton1355@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id VBTEa20555 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:53:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:53:49 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 236 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Seton1355@aol.com Dear Katya, Your baby walker outfit sounds so cool! Any way to see pictures? Phillipa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 18:52:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25437 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:52:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA03202; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA01147 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:00:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA01132 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:00:32 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip44.van20.pacifier.com [216.65.138.44]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA26957 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:00:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901140000.QAA26957@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:00:50 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <4.1.19990113114444.00b645a0@pop.slip.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > >A quick off-topic note - one of the historic houses in Edinburgh has > one of these baby walkers, probably about 17th century. There has been > a lot in the news recently about baby walkers causing injuries by > children falling down stairs in them, or pulling things down on top of > them. The period one shows clearly that modern ones are missing the > point - the baby walker is square, and its base is wider than the > doorways of the room or the child's reach. Its function is to stop the > child going where it shouldn't. None of the walkers I've seen from the 14th century through at least the 16th Century would prevent the child's reach or keep them from tipping or going through doorways. One of the most common things which maimed and killed children of that time is falling into the fire. Leading strings attached to the backs of the doublet or shoulders of the tunic is something you also see with the pre16th century. This is so charming (and very costume oriented;) and it works. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 19:22:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA25806 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:22:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA06242; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:32:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA05748 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:29:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from m16.boston.juno.com (m16.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.192]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA05735 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:29:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m16.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DYVRTEVU; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:29:19 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: undergarments Message-ID: <19990113.161401.4783.2.cley@juno.com> References: <4.1.19990113130726.00be6ca0@pop.slip.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-10,12-58 From: cley@juno.com (cynthia j ley) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:29:19 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: cley@juno.com (cynthia j ley) I can't stand underwires. I found some bras at Modern Woman that are nothing more or less than cotton and Lycra in all the right places. Not busty, but sing, and have a huge rib cage to get around. These fit perfectly and are very comfortable. No, I have no affiliation with the company. But I find clothes there that fit when they're otherwise nowhere to be found. Arlys On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:08:51 -0800 Carolyn Kayta Barrows writes: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >This is why I was asking about those modern bra/corset things a while >ago. >I still haven't solved the problem. The best I can do is remove the >underwires and slide the straps farther out on my shoulders. > >>Yup! I get mine at Wal-mart. I think there are a couple of brands >that work >>well. They're not >>sports bras, but they're pretty substantial. I am rather well-endowed >and I >>was getting sick >>of underwires poking me and digging into my flesh. The bras I wear >now have >>maybe a little >>less support than ones with underwires, but I'm so much more >comfortable! >>Now if only I >>can figure out how to keep the straps from digging into my >shoulders.... >> >>--Jessica >> >>> >>> -Poster: Betsy Perry >>> >>> Not terribly historic, but I've been able to find non-underwire, >>> soft-cup (or is it cupless? Stretch material with no foam lining) >>> brassieres at Target. One good brand is Hanes Her Way. >>> > > >Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 19:24:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA25816 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:24:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA06601; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:34:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA06317 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:32:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f212.hotmail.com [207.82.251.103]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id RAA06306 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:32:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 18021 invoked by uid 0); 14 Jan 1999 00:31:50 -0000 Message-ID: <19990114003150.18019.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.95.7.144 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:31:50 PST X-Originating-IP: [128.95.7.144] From: "Ms Blasta" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re: mary magdalene Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:31:50 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Ms Blasta" I've always seen Agnes portrayed holding a lamb (Agnes = latin Agnus) > >Are you sure that was Mary Magdalene? This is the common way of depicting >St Agnes who was popular in the Middle Ages I believe. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 19:36:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA25873 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:36:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA08071; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:46:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA07734 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:44:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA07725 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:44:03 -0700 (MST) From: Seton1355@aol.com Received: from Seton1355@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 5DCSa07005 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:39:51 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <4d59176d.369d3cd7@aol.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:39:51 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: H-COST on line Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 236 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Seton1355@aol.com Imust have missed something. Can someone please fill me in? Thanks, Phillipa In a message dated 1/13/99 5:34:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, keltia@serv.net writes: > > What a fantastic offer! Let's change the subject head line. :) Cynthia > > > Ok! Is the consensus that this is ok for me to do? > > But I need input from the list members! Pictures, articles, etc... do we > > want a member section? > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 19:44:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA25915 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:44:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA08902; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:54:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA08755 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:52:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from VAX5.ACER.EDU.AU (vax5.acer.edu.au [203.2.133.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA08740 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from exchange.acer.edu.au ([203.2.133.26]) by vms.acer.edu.au (PMDF V5.1-12 #22802) with ESMTP id <01J6J38ULE3Y8WWNXS@vms.acer.edu.au> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:54:06 +1100 Received: by exchange.acer.edu.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:46:59 +1100 Content-return: allowed Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:46:57 +1100 From: Harvey Georgia Subject: Re: H-COST: 1940's-50's undergarments To: "'H-costume'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Harvey Georgia - -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I wonder why I think that corsets were rather charming, but modern girdles are >horrible? I love the "New Look" but I'd never wear what those women wore to >get it! Are other historic costumers of like opinion, or is it just me? And >just how many people wear foundation garments all the time today? Judging from >the department store, a lot more than I thought! The best solution for 1940's-50's is to wear a one-piece garment which includes bra and girdle in the same garment. These are 40's-50's period things, and are enough like a corset that if you can wear a Victorian/Edwardian one you can successfully wear one of them. --- I'd *love* to try one of these, but they are impossible to get in large cup sizes, unless you are large all over. I have enough problems not being able to buy a bra in this *country* that's a 34FF, without trying to get a 'foundation garment' the same size. Does anybody know of anywhere that makes them in larger cup sizes, but with smaller body sizes? Or even second-hand ? _sarcasm on_ Altough it seems to me that breasts mustn't have been that big in the 50s. There are no older styles bigger than about a D cup around. _sarcasm off_ What did larger busted women do? Same as I do now - squash into something smaller? Georgia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 19:58:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA25974 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:58:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA10173; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:08:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA10490 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:05:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from tor-smtp2.netcom.ca (tor-smtp2.netcom.ca [207.181.101.101]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA10485 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:05:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (trt-on23-45.netcom.ca [207.181.99.109]) by tor-smtp2.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA07547 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:05:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006201be3f5a$b63cd880$6d63b5cf@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:10:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" Here's another link: (the one Teddy provided doesn't work from my server) http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/mabuse/baudouin.jpg >What puzzles me is that under the ruffles at the wrists of the shirt >there is a row of tabs/picadils. I thought a first that the subject >might be wearing gloves, and these tabs were decorating the opening >at the wrist, but on closer inspection, the finger-nails are visible >on at least the left hand of the sitter. >Is this man wearing another, long sleeved, garment *under* that >beautiful shirt, the only part visible being the picadils/tabs at >the wrist?? The first impression I got was that he was wearing a leather doublet underneath (strange!!!). The picadilled cuffs look very leathery, especially when you consider the width between snips, there's no evident fraying, and the colour - a sort of light rose-orange - is also suggestive. Or is it possible that this fabric has been sewn on beneath as a guard to protect the delicately pleated cuffs? He's wearing three garments for certain - the creamy brocade robe, the slashed black doublet, the very full and decorated shirt. Is it possible that he is also wearing a leather underdoublet and perhaps an undershirt beneath that, for comfort? Eve Harris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 20:18:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26091 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:18:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA12265; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:28:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA12825 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:25:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA12806 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:25:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from gia-g (dialup741.serv.net [207.207.65.105]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA07011 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:25:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001d01be3f5d$4198e480$6941cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: H-COST: Baa baa black sheep? Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:28:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Greetings, again! I was singing the nursery rhyme with my Amybyrlee when I became curious...Were there sheep with black wool, medievally? Where would one find such a beastie, if there were black wool producing sheep? Or is this a rather modern genetically induced sheep? Gia/Giacinta costuming nut, ever curious... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 20:18:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26095 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:18:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA12271; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:28:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA12828 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:25:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA12815 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:25:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from gia-g (dialup741.serv.net [207.207.65.105]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA07005 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:25:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001c01be3f5d$40e042e0$6941cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: H-COST: leading strings Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:23:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Love the walker idea! When Ambyr was about 1, I did a dress for her with leading strings. Wonderful for going through merchants row! A walker wasn't really practical for me, though, for she was a 'climber' before she was a 'walker' and she kept escaping from the walker! So leading strings worked better. I also did a stroller 'cozy' out of a tapestry type of material so that the modern stroller was 'hidden'. Not period (I think?) but it worked especially when she needed a nap and wouldn't lay down. A spin in the stroller usually did the trick to get her nodding off! Giacinta _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 20:32:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26162 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:32:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA14762; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:43:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA14414 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:40:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA14401 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:40:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.66] (ell136.acadia.net [205.217.218.120]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA23059 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:40:10 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:40:14 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: flax / linen Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> I believe this got mentioned before, but perhaps it got lost in the other messages: until the 19th century, the word "linen" referred to fabric or thread from any of a variety of bast fibers, including (but not limited to) that from the flax plant. Therefore, a shift made of linen could have been made from flax or hemp, but the buyer wouldn't know (and most likely did not care.) On the other hand, today, upholsterers use the word linen to refer to a specific kind of fabric, which can be made from flax, cotton and/or synthetics. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 20:33:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26169 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:33:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA14796; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:43:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA14442 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:40:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA14412 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:40:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.66] (ell136.acadia.net [205.217.218.120]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA23107 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:40:23 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:40:24 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: Waffen und Kostumkunde Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id UAA26169 Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <<>Do you by any chance have information on the the Waffen und Kost¸mkunde publication? I've been trying to get my hands on some back issues.>> Waffen und Kostumkunde is a German publication, and a periodical, not a book. The articles are generally in the language they're submitted in, so there are some in English (Janet Arnold wrote several pieces for them). Some larger academic libraries get it; you may be able to get articles via ILL. Deb orah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 20:36:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26187 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:36:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA15375; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:47:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA14816 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:44:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (mg134-121.ricochet.net [204.179.134.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA14796 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:44:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from ricochet.net (athene.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.14]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA02079 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:47:50 -0800 Message-ID: <369D4CD8.5881060A@ricochet.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:48:33 -0800 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan References: <4.1.19990113114444.00b645a0@pop.slip.net> <199901140000.QAA26957@smtp.pacifier.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Kat wrote: > None of the walkers I've seen from the 14th century through at least > the 16th Century would prevent the child's reach or keep them from > tipping or going through doorways. In the "Shakespeare's Birthplace" house in Stratford, there is a "child minder" that would prevent this. In the floor and ceiling, there is a socket, and into it is fitted a pole, so that it can turn freely. On the pole, at about the height of a child's waist, is a short horizontal bar, with a strap that would go around the child. The child can then run in circles (or possibly sit down, if the bar is adjustable) within a limited range -- never getting close to the fire or geting away to another room. And for the bra-questions, I swear by http://www.decentexposures.com =-=-=-=-= "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 20:41:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26237 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:41:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA16371; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:51:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA15330 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:48:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (mg134-121.ricochet.net [204.179.134.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA15317 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:48:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from ricochet.net (athene.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.14]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA02083 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:52:30 -0800 Message-ID: <369D4DF1.100BE186@ricochet.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:53:14 -0800 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting References: <006201be3f5a$b63cd880$6d63b5cf@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Eve Harris wrote: > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/mabuse/baudouin.jpg > Or is it possible that this fabric has been sewn on beneath as a guard to > protect the delicately pleated cuffs? That would be my guess -- as the ground color of the embroidered collar on his shirt is very nearly the same color as the picadills. But I'm no expert. =-=-=-=-= "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 21:17:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA26466 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:17:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA14853; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:43:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA14480 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:40:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA14463 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:40:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.66] (ell136.acadia.net [205.217.218.120]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA23132 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:40:32 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:40:36 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: for Janet's friends Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) The celebration of Janet Arnold's life will be held Sunday, April 25 at the Globe Theater in London. Doors will open at 5:30 p.m. It is indicative of the respect for Janet in the theater world that when the request was made for using one of the meeting rooms at the Globe, the management offered the entire theater complex. Everyone who knew Janet and her work are invited to come, but if you do plan to come, please call Susan North (171 938 8411) at the V&A and let her know, so they can have an idea of how many people are coming. The study day, in conjunction with the retrospective of Janet's work in the Costume and Textile Gallery of the V&A, will be the day before. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 21:51:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA26606 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:51:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA23666; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:01:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA23084 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:59:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA23062 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:59:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from alt1 (sdn-ar-001dcwashP294.dialsprint.net [168.191.22.32]) by magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA22326 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:59:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Allison Thurman" To: Subject: H-COST: re: h-costume online Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:01:26 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2212 (4.71.2419.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Allison Thurman" i would be interested in contributing to this! i am also a web developer and would like to help out. allison _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 21:59:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA26635 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:59:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA24521; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:10:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA23971 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:07:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA23964 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:07:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from alt1 (sdn-ar-001dcwashP294.dialsprint.net [168.191.22.32]) by magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA28804 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:07:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Allison Thurman" To: Subject: H-COST: re:undergarments Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:09:47 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2212 (4.71.2419.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Allison Thurman" this may be an odd question but it is on the undergarments topic: i am 25 years old. while i was growing up i remember battling my mother on sundays because she insisted i wear a slip with all my skirts - even thick winter ones. i always hated the things because they invariably had static cling and/or showed through the kickpleat. my mother still wears them with all her skirts, but ive not worn one in years - imho, if a skirt is THAT sheer i'll do without it. also, many ready-made skirts i see have built-in linings lately, particularly if they are part of a suit. is this just my peculiarity or does it seem like more women (or at least women my age) are shunning slips? is the garment industry making up for this by adding lining?just wondering. allison _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 22:14:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26692 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:14:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA25972; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:24:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA25496 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:22:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA25491 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:22:10 -0700 (MST) From: Tsrra@aol.com Received: from Tsrra@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id NRCCa20553 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:15:25 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:15:25 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Baa baa black sheep? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Tsrra@aol.com In a message dated 99-01-13 20:29:15 EST, you write: << Were there sheep with black wool, medievally? Where would one find such a beastie, if there were black wool producing sheep? Or is this a rather modern genetically induced sheep? >> Colored sheep are what nature prefers. White is the 'genetically induced' color. My source tells me that they are currently working on an 'optically white' sheep. I cringe at the thought, and so, it seems, does Mother Nature. TS Ohara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 22:30:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26796 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:29:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA27863; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:40:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA27008 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:37:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA27000 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:37:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.128]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id TAA19599; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:37:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id TAA11409; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:37:32 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhRQd+dVvNhB41Y2R5N8MUSr8galKwIUEG34A7WlWJr5408Xc5W2algvZQU= From: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:37:32 -0700 (MST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Baa baa black sheep? Message-ID: <19033-369D667C-468@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" 's message of Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:28:18 -0800 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) My understanding of black sheep is that they are any sheep not white. Black, brown, grey/gray, any thing but white. White was desired becase it could be dyed. A true black sheep is usually black only for the first shirring after that the coat gets lighter and lighter shades of black due to exposure to the elements and age. Starsinger _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 22:44:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26892 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:44:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA29070; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:55:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA28640 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:52:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA28633 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:52:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id OAA02810 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:22:27 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA11736; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:22:27 +1030 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:22:25 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re:undergarments In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Allison Thurman wrote: > i am 25 years old. while i was growing up i remember battling my mother on > sundays because she insisted i wear a slip with all my skirts - even thick > winter ones. i always hated the things because they invariably had static > cling and/or showed through the kickpleat. my mother still wears them with > all her skirts, but ive not worn one in years - imho, if a skirt is THAT > sheer i'll do without it. also, many ready-made skirts i see have built-in > linings lately, particularly if they are part of a suit. > > is this just my peculiarity or does it seem like more women (or at least > women my age) are shunning slips? is the garment industry making up for > this by adding lining?just wondering. > I'm about the same age as you Allison, and I used to wear a slip quite a bit when I was a kiddie. Although I haven't worn one since I was about 13 I think I still have one in my underwear drawer. My mother still occasionally wears one (she has a couple at full-length, not just skirts), usually under a see-through blouse. I can't say I've noticed an increase in lined skirts though. Mind you it's a while since I bought something in a standard clothes shop or department store. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 23:12:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27015 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:12:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA01532; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:22:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA01505 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:20:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mw1.texas.net (mw1.texas.net [206.127.30.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA01494 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from texas.net (tcnet08-16.austin.texas.net [209.99.35.142]) by mw1.texas.net (2.4/2.4) with ESMTP id WAA05766 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:20:00 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <369D7012.6E4163C3@texas.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:18:26 -0600 From: Christina X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan References: <4.1.19990113114444.00b645a0@pop.slip.net> <199901140000.QAA26957@smtp.pacifier.com> <369D4CD8.5881060A@ricochet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christina > > > In the "Shakespeare's Birthplace" house in Stratford, there is a "child > minder" that would prevent this. In the floor and ceiling, there is a socket, > and into it is fitted a pole, so that it can turn freely. On the pole, at > about the height of a child's waist, is a short horizontal bar, with a strap > that would go around the child. The child can then run in circles (or > possibly sit down, if the bar is adjustable) within a limited range -- never > getting close to the fire or geting away to another room. Along the same subject, didn't the phrase "tied to her apron strings" refer to the practice of leashing one's kid to the ties on an apron? -Magdalena _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 13 23:24:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27083 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:24:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA02698; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:34:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA02851 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:32:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA02840 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:32:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip60.an1-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.12.60]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA19289 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:31:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369D65DF.7EB9356B@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:34:57 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: flax / linen References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Deborah Pulliam wrote: > - a shift made of linen could have been > made from flax or hemp, but the buyer wouldn't know (and most likely did > not care.) > It's my impression that the buyer most likely would have both known and cared, since hempen linen is apparently considerably coarser than flaxen linen, and apparently somewhat darker in color as well. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 00:15:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA27900 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:15:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA04921; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:02:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA05315 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:59:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA05306 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:59:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.19] (sdts10-74.znet.net [207.167.66.74]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id UAA02361 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:59:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:59:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <369D4CD8.5881060A@ricochet.net> References: <4.1.19990113114444.00b645a0@pop.slip.net> <199901140000.QAA26957@smtp.pacifier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: Cynthia Virtue > >Kat wrote: >> None of the walkers I've seen from the 14th century through at least >> the 16th Century would prevent the child's reach or keep them from >> tipping or going through doorways. In my recent find "Yesterday's Children" and in some of my German woodcuts as well, there are several examples of 16th c walkers that would keep them from tipping and would keep them out of reach of dangerous items. The bases are very wide and the child is held in the center. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 00:23:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA27928 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:23:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA07247; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:33:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA08437 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:30:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA08432 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:30:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id QAA03069 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:00:32 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA12560; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:00:31 +1030 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:00:30 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: costume list Subject: H-COST: Peasant garb Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant I found a cheap piece of wool in the remnant box of a local fabric store, about the size to make a bodice, and have a strange hankering to make some nice accurate lower class garb....ie I don't want to make the standard SCA 'wenching' garb. I have been looking at the paintings of Pieter Brueghel (any idea where to find piccies of English peasants ?). I notice that in the summer scenes the women wear sleeveless bodices (sometimes with separate sleeves pinned on) and skirts. Some of the skirts are different colours from the bodices - does this mean they are separate objects or are they still seamed together? If the latter, would it be okay to make the skirt out of a different fabric, not just a different colour (ie say a linen skirt on a wool bodicve)? In the winter scenes the women wear closed, long-sleeved gowns. Would they likely be wearing these over the 'summer' garb described above? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 01:27:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA28446 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 01:27:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA11780; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:37:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA13254 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:34:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (root@jefferson.patriot.net [206.151.9.249]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA13249 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:34:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.151.9.12] (th-0-3.patriot.net [206.151.9.12]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA16115 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 01:30:19 -0500 Message-Id: <199901140630.BAA16115@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: H-COST: Lecture on 1790s Date: Thu, 14 Jan 99 01:34:17 -0500 x-sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sat., Jan. 16, 1999, 1 p.m., Gadsby's Tavern Museum, 134 N Royal St., Alex. Va. 703-836-2863; Free w/admission or $4 for adults: "The 1790s: Bridging the Fashion Gap," Lecture by Alden O'Brien, Assoc. Curator of Costume, DAR Museum. "The 1790s is a fascinating but neglected decade in the history of costume. How did fashion make the transition from the stiff-bodied, voluminous dresses of George Washington's time to the soft, high-waisted styles of the era of Jane Austen? Both men's and women's fashions underwent a period of great innovation and experimentation." This lecture is a revised, expanded and improved (I hope) version of the lecture I gave at the 1st Gadsby's Symposium two years ago. Here I'll venture into men's dress a bit, and will go into details of construction of the variety of transitional styles that appear in the 1790s, with more conservative uses overlapping with newer styles and piecing methods. Some attention will be given to accessories and hair, but I want to concentrate on the dress construction overall--also the transitional underpinnings. Hope to see some of you there! No reservations necessary; for more info call 703-838-4605. Alden O'Brien _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 01:30:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA28459 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 01:30:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA11961; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:39:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA13361 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:36:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id XAA13354 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:36:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 11628 invoked from network); 14 Jan 1999 06:38:08 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-209.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.209) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 1999 06:38:08 -0000 Message-ID: <369DB4A4.4BB3@mc.net> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 01:11:00 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: H-COST online References: <199901132245.PAA17407@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Karla, Hope it's a go-ahead! I have Adobe Photoshop, (and other coolstuff) and if you don't, I'd like to volunteer my services for "cleaning up" photos and other graphics, such as "despeckling" drawings, sharpening photos, etc. I also have a program that can convert photos etc. to line art (might be useful for clarity if we decide to add a "reference section" sort of like a costuming FAQ ("I'm sure someone has asked this before but...) Please let me know if you need or want any of these services. In service, Heather Law/Sister Ed the Disorganized > - -Poster: Karla Sexsmith > > Ok! Is the consensus that this is ok for me to do? > > But I need input from the list members! Pictures, articles, etc... do we > want a member section? > > I can do the design, but to be honest, I'd only been on the list a day when > I volunteered for this :) Although, I've been on it before, so I'm not > completely new, and I've been in the SCA for about 2 years, so I know some > about costuming... but my strength is in webdesign. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 02:27:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA28679 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:27:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA14632; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:38:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA16760 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:35:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA16751 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:35:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-69-254.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.69.254]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id XAA09408 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:35:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369D2EB4.4330E07B@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:39:33 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting References: <342DD1B1150@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, Teddy wrote: > What puzzles me is that under the ruffles at the wrists of the shirt there > is a row of tabs/picadils. I thought a first that the subject might be > wearing gloves, and these tabs were decorating the opening at the wrist, > but on closer inspection, the finger-nails are visible on at least the > left hand of the sitter. I may be in the minority, but I think that they are gloves. The color of the tabs are the same color as the rest of the hand and the 'fingernails' don't show enough detail. Tight fitting kid gloves can show that kind of detail. It's really tough to make a call based on the picture on the web, but until I see a better picture, I'm going to assume that there are gloves. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 02:34:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA28704 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:34:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA14817; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:45:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA17164 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:42:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from dub-img-4.compuserve.com (dub-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.206.134]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA17154 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:42:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id CAA09510 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:42:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:41:58 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: flax/linen/hemp To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901140242_MC2-6691-AC7@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id CAA28704 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson > - a shift made of linen could have been > made from flax or hemp, but the buyer wouldn't know (and most likely did > not care.) > >It's my impression that the buyer most likely would have both known and cared, since hempen linen is apparently considerably coarser than flaxen linen, and apparently somewhat darker in color as well. Yes indeed I cited a ref a while back about the class associations with wearing flax or hemp linen shirts ! It was in a Ciba review I think if anyone wants to look it up. Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 02:35:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA28711 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:35:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA14834; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:45:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA17166 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:42:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from dub-img-4.compuserve.com (dub-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.206.134]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA17156 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:42:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id CAA09516 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:42:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:42:01 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Baa baa black sheep? To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901140242_MC2-6691-AC8@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id CAA28711 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson Yes you can get black sheep (well amost black) I have a lovely Shetland fleece (black ) waiting to be spun, my understanding is dark brown was overdyed to produce black quite often. Older breeds of sheep are often Black or brown or grey or piebald (two colurs) I is easy , at least in the UK , to get fleeces from many different shades of sheep ! Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 03:34:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA01859 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:34:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA16929; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 01:45:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA19915 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 01:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from scorpion.netspace.net.au (scorpion.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.106]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA19904 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 01:41:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by scorpion.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id TAA23112 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:42:07 +1100 (EST) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t1-14.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.250.14]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id TAA21606 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:41:57 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199901140841.TAA21606@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: re: mary magdalene Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:47:51 +1100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" Dear all, Firstly, apologies for wading into off-topic territory. On the Mary Magdalene front, there is some evidence that mary was actually the wife of Jesus. Assorted Christian writers with an agenda of keeping Christ and the Apostles "pure", knew they could not easily write her out of history so dirtied her down instead. If you think of it, the idea of an unmairried 30-something rabbi in Isreal at that time is pretty hard to take. -C. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 04:21:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02023 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:21:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA19700; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:32:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA21762 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:29:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA21752 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:29:41 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id RDQFa04794 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:28:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1b111523.369db8d7@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:28:55 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: pinking chisels Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/13/99 8:23:28 AM Pacific Standard Time, kayta@slip.net writes: > > Does he make these just for you, or does he make them for anyone who > asks/pays? I could sure use one or two of these myself, and I see this > person occasionally. If he made them they would look period enough to use > in public. LOL, I don't believe they're in his regular catalog. And as for looking period, they were pretty much raw flat stock, wedged into a chisel at one end. No finish. No handle/grip. No grace. Pure functionality. Period enough for me! Plus, it does the job without drawing against the leather. Lay it on the line, and strike! No drag, no guessing, no fuss. It has also been suggested that a shoemaker's knife (sort of a round edge with a handle in the middle) may have been the actual tool, but I'm quite sure the flat chisel and a hammer is plausible enough, lacking firm documentation otherwise. MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 04:35:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02069 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:35:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA20042; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:46:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA22269 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:43:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA22264 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:43:26 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id OUNUa00808 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:42:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3b5174a4.369dbc05@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:42:29 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/11/99 12:22:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, raymond.wickham@customs.gov.au writes: > > -Poster: WICKHAM Raymond > > Two observations about the age concept > > A couple of replies to my original post have > > referred to 15-year-olds with small waists I bet they didn't keep past > > 18. Or past the second child! M.-R. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 04:36:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02076 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:36:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA20095; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:47:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA22299 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:44:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA22294 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:44:13 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id OAPGa05340 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:43:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:43:37 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/11/99 5:38:25 AM Pacific Standard Time, Lissa@duchess.globalnet.co.uk writes: > > (who I met last year) and a very few others who have 15 inch waists. Such a > things > has, and still exists so why not also durung the 19th century as well? > As an anomoly, not as a rule. No more then than now? MaggiRos ~Not my period, not my problem _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 04:39:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02089 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:39:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA20206; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:50:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA22401 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:47:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA22391 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:47:15 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id TZHUa20555 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:46:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <573368a4.369dbcf7@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:46:31 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: ACW Gloves for Daywear Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/11/99 7:23:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, oh_susannah@hotmail.com writes: > > Does ANYONE have a good idea or source for ACW-era reproduction gloves? > I would love a nice pair of plain, dove-grey ones for day wear. I am > not afraid to undertake the making of these gloves if I could find a > good pattern, preferable from an original pair. Help, help! > Hammer's in Hollywood (CA) is the only place I know for custom gloves. Being Hollywood, you tell therm what you need, they can do it. Not cheap, but there. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 04:42:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02102 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:42:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA20290; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:52:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA22458 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:49:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA22453 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:49:11 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id HWPUa23181 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:48:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5ce561a5.369dbd73@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:48:35 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/11/99 8:36:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, kdyer@nash.tds.net writes: > > Has anyone else heard of red striped stockings being > associated with prostitutes? > No, but it sounds like just the sort of thing an honest woman would decry and a flash professional girl would adore! I wouldn't spend too much time on it. MaggiRos sometimes Clara Munter, the soldier's friend _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 04:44:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02112 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:44:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA20406; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:56:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA22571 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:52:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA22566 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:52:56 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id JIPUa20553 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:52:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3dcaf525.369dbe41@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:52:01 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com Actually, we had a conversation somewhat like this a year or so ago. There is some argument for yellow (headress or sash) as an emblematic mark for light women/whores. But as someone else pointed out, not everywhere or at all times. The past is not all the same place. Does anyone still have that thread saved? MaggiRos ren.dm.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 04:45:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02119 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:45:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA20467; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:56:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA22612 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:53:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA22605 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:53:45 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id METGa05322 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:53:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:53:13 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/11/99 9:47:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, hope.greenberg@uvm.edu writes: > > I especially want to know if I need to tear those big yellow sleeves off my > early 16thc. Italian ren. Off hand, I'd say no. In the late 16th century English court, yellow was a colour of happiness and good cheer. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 04:54:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02150 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:54:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA20854; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:05:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA22970 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:02:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA22965 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:02:38 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id BXNWa03472 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:01:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <686698a5.369dc07c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:01:32 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/11/99 4:55:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, starsinger@webtv.net writes: > > The closet to yellow I can remember is the prostitutes were supposed to > be blonde or wear a blond wig. Anyone familiar with this one? LOL, no. But enough bleched their hair for blonde to perhaps become thought of as a sign of a loose woman. What must those Northern Italian girls have done to set themselves apart. MaggiRos who is sometimes Clara, who can make change in 5 languages _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 04:55:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02158 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:55:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA20930; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:07:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA23022 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:03:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA23010 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:03:51 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 2XYUa01222 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:03:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <96b98c25.369dc0d8@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:03:04 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/11/99 5:51:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, ldownward@mail.cho.org writes: > > I recall that in either ancient Greece or ancient Rome, prostitutes were > the only women to have blonde hair, but that's the only connection I can > remember. Because foreign women must, in Athens, be of questionable character. Any Macedonian woman ... Mistrust anything you think you remember M.-r. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 05:07:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA02217 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:07:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA21255; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:18:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA23872 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:15:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA23761 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:15:29 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id XBGVa20554 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:14:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <41385326.369dc39f@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:14:55 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #28 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/12/99 5:25:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, Schmitt100@aol.com writes: > > > Take a look at your Bible - that woman was NEVER identified; tradition/myth > ascribed her as Mary M. Trouble is, it takes more than one look, and it takes a certain amount of nerve to assemble your observations against what seems to be the prevailiing tradition. Tradition is a powerful thing. In some ways, it doesn't entirely matter what the truth may have been. What everyone believes is what everyone acts on. And as I said, in period, the Magdalene was identified with a certain thing for a certain reason. As a scholar, I am happier to know better, but in character, I have to remember to closet that understanding away. MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 05:25:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA02298 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:25:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA22265; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:36:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA18820 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:33:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA18585 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:33:03 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 7OJLa19752 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:32:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:32:03 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/12/99 8:36:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, kat@grendal.rain.com writes: > True pastels were not popular until late Elizabethan. Not popular isn't the same as not possible. The Wedding at Bermondsey shows at least one gown that is undeniably pink. Actually, I support the notion that the flower was called "pink" for its ruffled edge--as if cut with pinking shears. Carnation was an older color name, I believe, and that has a Latin root that takes us into other fields. The names of colors are their own reward. Why does "watchet" mean light blue? MaggiRos ~ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 05:56:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA02404 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:56:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA23109; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:08:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA29091 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:04:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA29020 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:04:42 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id TGOWa01223 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:03:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:03:35 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST:Yellow/prostitutes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com Ah-ha! Ok, here's the one post I kept from the last time this came up, uhm oh dear, more like 18 months ago. I admire this principally for its use of documentation. MaggiRos =========== Subj: H-COST: restrictions on prostitutes (colors,etc.) Date: 97-06-11 10:17:46 EDT From: talk2meg@mychoice.net (Mary-Gayle Jany) Sender: h-costume-approval@world.std.com Reply-to: talk2meg@mychoice.net (Mary-Gayle Jany) To: h-costume@world.std.com -Poster: "Mary-Gayle Jany" Bill asked: Have you got any ref.s for this? I have been trying to track down this association of yellow headdress and prostitution in the 13th cent Someone has finally asked a question that I can help answer! The following references not only have the information about colors, but also explain all the restrictions prostitutes were governed by. The references are fully documented from primary sources (laws and ordinances within various countries and cities). Bassermann, Lujo. _The Oldest Profession: A History of Prostitution_. trans. from German by James Cleugh. New York: Dorset Press, 1993. (ISBN: 0-88029-248-2) Goldberg, P. J. P. _Women, Work, and Life Cycle in a Medieval Economy: Women in York and Yorkshire c.1300-1520_. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1992. Rossiaud, Jacques. _Medieval Prostitution_. trans. by Lydia G. Cochrane. New York: Basil Blackwell, Inc., 1988. (ISBN: 0-631-15141-9) Wiesner, Merry E. _Working Women in Renaissance Germany_. New Brunswick, NJ: Rutgers U. Press, 1986. (ISBN: 0-8135-1138-0) Hope these help. M _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 06:04:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA02437 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:04:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA23270; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:15:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA13772 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:12:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA13466 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:11:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA01952.; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:15:10 GMT Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:11:30 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:10:55 +0000 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: baa baa black sheep Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id GAA02437 Status: O -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" It's my understanding that the occasional black sheep crops up naturally in a flock, but was regarded as a nuisance because the wool couldn't be dyed - hence the expression "black sheep of the family" for an embarrassing relation. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 06:09:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA02456 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:09:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA23456; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:20:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA22856 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:17:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from server1.mich.com (root@server1.mich.com [198.108.16.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA22846 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:17:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from raille (pm187-28.dialip.mich.net [198.110.44.38]) by server1.mich.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA06289 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:17:29 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990114062358.007ac860@onramp.i2k.com> X-Sender: alwen@onramp.i2k.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:23:58 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Lynn Carpenter Subject: H-COST: Black sheep Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Carpenter The "black" of a black sheep is a sort of "rusty black," which was probably another reason it was a less desirable color. While black fabric was often desired, the "rusty black", sort of like a bad hair dye, was not. Lynn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 06:21:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA02500 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:21:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA23810; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:32:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA23945 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:29:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from sand2.global.net.uk (sand2.global.net.uk [194.126.80.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA23937 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:29:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from p5bs06a06.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.214.92] helo=LHIGGINS.ORGELLA.COM) by sand2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 100kxo-00022X-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:29:24 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990114111422.01609df0@mail.globalnet.co.uk> X-Sender: duchess@mail.globalnet.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:29:12 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Elizabeth Higgins Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - any surviving garments? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Higgins Hi Maggi, At 04:43 14/01/99 EST, you wrote: >> (who I met last year) and a very few others who have 15 inch waists. Such a >> things has, and still exists so why not also durung the 19th century as well? >> >As an anomoly, not as a rule. No more then than now? Very true, the number of women who corset to that extent is very, very small. I vaguely recall reading something about a survey of corset makers in the latter half of the 19th century that showed that the average size of corsets made was for 22 inch waists with the numbers falling off in a bell curve above and below] that size. If you want details I can search my archives for the reference. Elizabeth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 06:51:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA02600 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:51:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA24691; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:02:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA25209 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:59:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from m5.sprynet.com (m5.sprynet.com [165.121.2.92]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA25204 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:59:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (hil-c52-004-vty176.as.wcom.net [206.175.118.176]) by m5.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA16635 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:59:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901141159.DAA16635@m5.sprynet.com> From: "Bob and TC Carstensen" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:57:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: re:undergarments Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Bob and TC Carstensen" Allison Thurman wrote: > is this just my peculiarity or does it seem like more women (or at least > women my age) are shunning slips? I'm 36 and I rarely wore a slip until the past few years when I had to start wearing a lot of skirts in cold weather. Since I wear cotton or wool tights, slips are a necesssity unless the skirt is lined (I am always a litle boggled when I watch old movies from the first half of this century and see women running around in cold weather with the stretch of leg between the bottom of their coats to the top of their short boots covered by nothing but hose. How did they keep from freezing?!). I also appreciate the warmth an extra layer adds. However, I don't think I would have been inclined to wear slips if I hadn't gotten my hand on some nice vintage woven silk or rayon slips. I hate those nasty nylon tricot things I grew up with. I can't imagine how women could stand wearing them at all, let alone in warm weather. > is the garment industry making up for > this by adding lining? Comparing my collection of vintage clothes to modern ready to wear garments, I don't think the garment industry is more inclined to add linings than they used to be. TC Carstensen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 07:43:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA03465 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:43:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA26566; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:54:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA27611 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:51:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from tor-smtp2.netcom.ca (tor-smtp2.netcom.ca [207.181.101.101]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA27606 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:50:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (trt-on14-34.netcom.ca [207.181.84.226]) by tor-smtp2.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA20692 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:50:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001701be3fbd$33b7b980$e254b5cf@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: Subject: H-COST: Blond/Bleached Hair Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:55:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" >> The closet to yellow I can remember is the prostitutes were supposed to >> be blonde or wear a blond wig. Anyone familiar with this one? Venetian women and other Italian women spent a great deal of time dyeing their hair blond. It was THE colour to have. There's a charming engraving of an Italian woman wearing a crownless hat, dabbing at her hair with a sponge in the sun while admiring herself in a mirror. Anyone who used Sun-In in the 80's knows what that's like. (Remember how the box said to use a hair dryer in the winter to get the right heat?) Ouch.The French also prized blond hair. There were some really odd recipes used to bleach the hair. Thank God for L'Oreal. Eve Harris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 08:41:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA03846 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:41:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA28753; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:51:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA01679 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:48:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from bodyguard.apsc.com (bodyguard.apsc.com [137.91.114.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA01674 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:48:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.apsc.com (mailhub.apsc.commailhub.apsc.com [137.91.1.30]) by apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA11788 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:59:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from nt219.apsc.com (nt219.apsc.com [137.91.1.75]) by mailhub.apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA15150 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:44:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by nt219.apsc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:47:43 -0700 Message-ID: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3017B0694@nt13pv.apsc.com> From: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Other new list: what was it again? Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:47:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" Last week or so, one of the 'regulars' posted information on a new list for historical women's issues - could you repost please-or send to me off-list? Thanks in advance. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 08:56:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA03921 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:56:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA29516; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:07:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA02959 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:03:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (root@april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA02950 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:03:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA02883 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:57:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA08003 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:04:39 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:04:38 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: costume list Subject: Re: H-COST: Peasant garb In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed Claire, I've harvested a bunch of lower class garb pics from the 1550s to 1570s (almost all of them Flemish) with the intention of putting together a web page on the subject eventually...but you can check out the pictures at http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/lowerclass/piclist.html . Between them all, the pictures contain clear images of most pieces of clothing. Enjoy, Drea > > -Poster: The Purple Elephant > > I found a cheap piece of wool in the remnant box of a local fabric store, > about the size to make a bodice, and have a strange hankering to make > some nice accurate lower class garb....ie I don't want to make the > standard SCA 'wenching' garb. > I have been looking at the paintings of Pieter Brueghel (any idea where to > find piccies of English peasants ?). I notice that in the summer scenes > the women wear sleeveless bodices (sometimes with separate sleeves pinned > on) and skirts. Some of the skirts are different colours from the bodices > - does this mean they are separate objects or are they still seamed > together? If the latter, would it be okay to make the skirt out of a > different fabric, not just a different colour (ie say a linen skirt on a > wool bodicve)? > In the winter scenes the women wear closed, long-sleeved gowns. Would they > likely be wearing these over the 'summer' garb described above? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, > Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" > and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson > friendly substance. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 09:02:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA03989 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:02:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA29865; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:12:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA03604 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:09:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA03593 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.194] (ell139.acadia.net [205.217.218.194]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA24199 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:08:51 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:08:51 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: hemp and linen Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) << hempen linen is apparently considerably coarser than flaxen linen, and apparently somewhat darker in color as well.>> I believe this assumption is based on modern forms of hemp and flax. It is certainly not true of all hemp used in the past. Hemp can be as fine, or finer than flax, and color has more to do with growing and processing than with the plant itself. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 10:45:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04569 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:45:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA09547; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:56:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA17435 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:53:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA17426; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:53:06 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:53:06 -0700 (MST) From: Elizabeth Lear Message-Id: <199901141553.IAA17426@indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: ethnic costume resource books Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Lear <-Poster: Christina Conklin Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04635 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:57:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA10856; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:09:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA19410 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:05:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA19382 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:04:59 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip175.van17.pacifier.com [216.65.137.175]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA22382 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:04:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901141604.IAA22382@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:05:12 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > > True pastels were not popular until late Elizabethan. > Not popular isn't the same as not possible. The Wedding at Bermondsey shows > at least one gown that is undeniably pink. Yes, but that is Elizabethan. (Hey, I'm one of the believers in "pink" as a color, even if it wasn't called that.) > Actually, I support the notion that the flower was called "pink" for its > ruffled edge--as if cut with pinking shears. Carnation was an older color > name, I believe, and that has a Latin root that takes us into other fields. Carnation is one of my favorite colors. (Even if Linthicum does describe it as "the color of fresh meat" or something similar.) > The names of colors are their own reward. Why does "watchet" mean light blue? Like Peacock really being the color of the brown feathers (which I'd say is more "peahen" so why didn't they call it that!) Or Milk-and-water, Dead Spaniard Yellow, Gooseturd Green.... Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 11:00:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04680 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:00:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA11252; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:12:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA19948 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:08:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA19932; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:08:18 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:08:18 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901141608.JAA19932@indra.com> From: Jennifer Carlson To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Corseted Skeletons - A Museum Exhibit! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jennifer Carlson I heard a news article on NPR this morning about a new exhibit at the Museum of London. It is titled "London Bodies" and is comprised of skeletons dug up from the various construction sites in London. The skeletons span from Roman Britain through the 18th century, and are interesting in what they show that confirms or refutes our beliefs about how tall people were. The Roman Briton is described as being of an average *modern* height and build. Later skeletons are smaller, then get larger the closer they are to present. The widespread use of sugar in the 17th century shows in a sudden rise in dental caries and missing teeth. The use of corsets is testified to by the permanent compression of ribs in the 16-18th centuries. I'd love to go see this one. Perhaps someone on the list who is in, or will be in, London in the near future can check it out for us? Jennifer Carlson Jcarlson@firstchurchtulsa.org Authenticity Police, Department of Internal Affairs: "Lord BigSword, you will desist from telling schoolchildren that a knight was incapable of climbing onto his horse in 50 pounds of armor, or my assistants here, Sir Purpleheart and Sir NamVet, will strap you into a standard-issue, 50-pound Army field pack, give you an M-16, and run you through a standard Army obstacle course. It's your choice, my lord. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 11:02:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04699 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:02:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA11477; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:13:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA20335 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:09:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA20291; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:09:37 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:09:37 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901141609.JAA20291@indra.com> From: Jon Enge To: "'h-costume-digest@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: RE: h-costume-digest V4 #35 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jon Enge I am making a new 16th century upper-middle class outfit for faire this year. I have found a brought a brocade that is white and I want to dye it burgandy... It is 100% cotton and takes dye well (I tried a swatch before I bought it) My one concern is that, with the intensity of the sun baking me all day it will most likely fade quickly with RIT. Is there any way to keep this from happening? Is there a finish I can put on to keep it from fading? Is there a better kind of dye than RIT that I can use that won't fade so easily? Anyone have any tips? Jon... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 11:04:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04712 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:04:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA11811; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:16:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA21132 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:12:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA21120 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:12:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p41.directcon.net [206.170.184.90]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA00763 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:07:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:07:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901141607.IAA00763@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: re:undergarments Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson (I am >always a litle boggled when I watch old movies from the first half of >this century and see women running around in cold weather with >the stretch of leg between the bottom of their coats to the top of >their short boots covered by nothing but hose. How did they keep >from freezing?!). We didn't. We suffered. Actually, at the same time as short skirts and boots were popular, the ankle length maxicoat came into style. I didn't have one, though, just a long black cloak (If there had been Goths in 1972, I'd have been one). Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 11:07:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04735 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:07:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA12206; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:19:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA21599 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:15:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA21572 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:14:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p41.directcon.net [206.170.184.90]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA01076 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:10:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:10:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901141610.IAA01076@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Other new list: what was it again? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson > >Last week or so, one of the 'regulars' posted information on a new list for >historical women's issues - could you repost please-or send to me off-list? H-fem is a list for discussing menstruation, breastfeeding, pregnancy, and other physical issues related to women's lives throughout history. Emphasis is placed on open discussion and serious research, but topics involving legends, educated guesses, and old wives' tales are also welcome. In addition to emotional and spiritual issues, we also want to focus on the practical approaches used through the ages. To subscribe, go to http://www.onelist.com/ Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 11:54:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04985 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:54:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA17994; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:05:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA01055 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:01:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA01037 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:01:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA17926 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:53:28 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:53:26 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: h-costume-digest V4 #35 In-Reply-To: <199901141609.JAA20291@indra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > -Poster: Jon Enge > > I am making a new 16th century upper-middle class outfit for faire this > year. I have found a brought a brocade that is white and I want to dye it > burgandy... It is 100% cotton and takes dye well (I tried a swatch before I > bought it) My one concern is that, with the intensity of the sun baking me > all day it will most likely fade quickly with RIT. Is there any way to keep > this from happening? Is there a finish I can put on to keep it from fading? > Is there a better kind of dye than RIT that I can use that won't fade so > easily? Anyone have any tips? Yes. Get some procion mx. Dont use Rit. Sylvia R _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 12:34:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA05295 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:34:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA24108; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:45:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA10090 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:41:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA10081 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:41:54 -0700 (MST) From: AliaClaire@aol.com Received: from AliaClaire@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id GDLNa19764 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:40:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4492718c.369e2c00@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:40:16 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: ACW Gloves for Daywear Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com In a message dated 1/14/99 4:48:09 AM EST, MaggiRos@aol.com writes: << > > Does ANYONE have a good idea or source for ACW-era reproduction gloves? > I would love a nice pair of plain, dove-grey ones for day wear. I am > not afraid to undertake the making of these gloves if I could find a > good pattern, preferable from an original pair. Help, help! > > They can be something of a trick to find, especially kid, like the originals. Sometimes very upper-class department store carry them. I've gotten a lovely pair of black kid gloves from Glenna Jo Christen. I don't know if she's still on the list of not, but her e-mail is gwjchris@rust.net. She's wonderful to do business with and always has a lot of neat stuff, well researched- highest recommendations (and no, I'm not getting paid for saying this :-)) -Alison Stacy AliaClaire@aol.com Canton, Ohio _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 13:45:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05869 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:45:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA04277; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:56:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA29466 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:52:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from arl-img-11.compuserve.com (arl-img-11.compuserve.com [149.174.217.141]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA29419 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:52:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by arl-img-11.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id NAA22020 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:51:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:50:44 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Baa Baa Black Sheep To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901141351_MC2-66A9-7CCF@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id NAA05869 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson >It's my understanding that the occasional black sheep crops up naturally = in a flock, but was regarded as a nuisance because the wool couldn't be = dyed - hence the expression "black sheep of the family" for an embarrassing= relation. Well one farmer in Melton is having really BAD luck then, he has an entire flock ! They can be bred that way, but there is a tendancy to have bred them out historically, and yes you can get one crop up by accident from time to time, in White sheep. Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 13:53:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05914 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:53:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA05507; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:04:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA28860 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:50:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA28745 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:50:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.229 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:48:57 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Baa baa black sheep? Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:52:45 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be3fef$274ddb20$e517ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199901140242_MC2-6691-AC8@compuserve.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Sheep come in a wide range of colors, more so in days of old than now. The fair isle knitters took advantage of all those naturally occurring colors to make those lovely shaded patterns. I was just reading last night in the Mary Thomas Embroidery Book that the Spaniards used naturally occurring black wool on white linen or wool for blackwork and other embroidery. Black hair and fur will turn rusty with sun exposure. Fur from different parts of a sheep are used to make different sorts of yarn for different uses. I wonder if they used any method of protecting the fur from the sun, or whether underbelly fur would be blacker, or what. It sure does provide a color-fast embroidery floss, as opposed to black silk which would often bleed. It seems to like you'd be better off with blackish wool as a starting point for over-dying to a more fashionable blue-black shade, than starting with a lighter wool. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Melanie Wilson Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 2:42 AM To: INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Baa baa black sheep? -Poster: Melanie Wilson Yes you can get black sheep (well amost black) I have a lovely Shetland fleece (black ) waiting to be spun, my understanding is dark brown was overdyed to produce black quite often. Older breeds of sheep are often Black or brown or grey or piebald (two colurs) I is easy , at least in the UK , to get fleeces from many different shades of sheep ! Mel ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 13:57:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05939 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:57:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA06335; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:09:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA02903 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:05:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA02871 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:05:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.229 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:04:25 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: re:undergarments Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:08:10 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be3ff1$50e7f680$e517ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" When I was in junior and senior high school in the 1960's, only fast girls wnt without a slip. I mean a full slip. The mothers in general and a large contingent of girls thought it was pretty tasteless to wear a bra alone under a white blouse. It was much more becoming to wear a full slip with it's built-in camisole between the bra and the blouse. It became the norm to wear a half slip among the younger generation by the end of the decade, but I still think it's a little tacky to see that bra line across a woman's back under a white blouse, but confess I do it all the time. Houses and buildings are kept warmer than the old farmhouse I grew up in, and all those layers do require a fuss. If you could get a slip anymore in any decent material, it would be an attractive altrnative, but after shelling out big bucks for a dress for success silk and wool outfit, it kills me to think about stepping into a crummy antron nylon synthetic, wobbly, static-laden slip, which is about as cheap and unattractive a garment as you can get. The waist elastic on mine gave out in no time so years back and I never replaced them. When I was in elementary school in the 1950's I wouldn't be caught dead without my frothy nylon tafetta and lace slip petticoats to make my skirts stand out. It was a great pleasure to buy two more each year and to wear them, as they were in and of themselves so pretty and not the least bit of trouble. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Allison Thurman Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 10:10 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: re:undergarments -Poster: "Allison Thurman" this may be an odd question but it is on the undergarments topic: i am 25 years old. while i was growing up i remember battling my mother on sundays because she insisted i wear a slip with all my skirts - even thick winter ones. i always hated the things because they invariably had static cling and/or showed through the kickpleat. my mother still wears them with all her skirts, but ive not worn one in years - imho, if a skirt is THAT sheer i'll do without it. also, many ready-made skirts i see have built-in linings lately, particularly if they are part of a suit. is this just my peculiarity or does it seem like more women (or at least women my age) are shunning slips? is the garment industry making up for this by adding lining?just wondering. allison ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 14:24:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06085 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:24:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA10097; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:35:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA09920 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:31:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA09886 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:31:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id LAA03744 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:28:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369E4355.272629A9@best.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:19:49 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re:undergarments References: <000201be3ff1$50e7f680$e517ffd0@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press > When I was in junior and senior high school in the 1960's, > only fast girls wnt without a slip. I mean a full slip. > The mothers in general and a large contingent of girls > thought it was pretty tasteless to wear a bra alone under a > white blouse. It was much more becoming to wear a full slip > with it's built-in camisole between the bra and the blouse. > It became the norm to wear a half slip among the younger > generation by the end of the decade, but I still think it's > a little tacky to see that bra line across a woman's back > under a white blouse, but confess I do it all the time. What I remember is slips, and any kind of heavy support garment (such as girdles and padded bras), mostly went out of fashion in the late 1960s/early 1970s. Slips and camisoles made a comeback sometime in the 1980s, I forget exactly when, when Victoria's Secret, followed by other stores, starting selling silk lingerie as a luxury item. Last time I dropped into Victoria's Secret at the local mall, all their merchandise was synthetic. On the other hand, Nordstrom's currently sells pure silk lingerie at reasonable prices. I bought several silk slips there a few months ago for somewhere between $20 and $30. You can also find unused, old-store-stock silk lingerie from the 1920s and 1930s for good prices if you look around. I find the current trend in foundation garments a little strange. My memory is a few years ago I went to Macy's downtown to shop for bras and saw practically a whole floor of soft sports bras. Next time I went there, I saw practically a whole floor of padded, underwired ones. In neither case did I see much in between. Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 14:32:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06134 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:32:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA11238; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:43:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA11662 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:39:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA11637 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:39:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.27 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:38:54 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: RE: Keeping Legs Warm in "The Old Days!" Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:27:03 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be3ff6$2005ac60$1b14ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199901141607.IAA00763@zeus.directcon.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" What did we wear underneath the dresses to keep warm? Well, depends when. I used to wear flannel-lined corduroy pants to school under my dresses and take them off when I got to school. That is until 1958 when tights were invented. I still have the photo my grandfather took at Xmas that year of my younger cousin, with her new red tights on, holding up her dress to the waist, to show the assembled elderly relatives what the new fangled things were. Imagine, panties and stockings in one garment! And colors! It was revolutionary! We loved the warmth, and got dispensation to do gym in our tights rather than have to slip on trousers or shorts under our dresses. Then in the early sixties, there were knee-sox and petti-pants. Petti-pants were drawers of brushed nylon or nylon tricot to a few inches above the knee. They were highly decorated near the hems with tucks, lace, and ribbons. They were great! Then in the late 60's or early 70's, perhaps due to the popularity of the movie "Grease," it was leggings, like what dancers wear to keep their muscles warm. They were handknit tubes, the wilder colored the better, which we wore over our ankles, calves and knees---over nylons, over jeans, over tights as an extra layer to be shed indoors usually, but sometimes worn as a fashion statement all its own. I'd like to hear from those who remember the 20's-40's and hear how they dealt with the chill! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Margo Anderson Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 11:08 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re:undergarments -Poster: Margo Anderson (I am >always a litle boggled when I watch old movies from the first half of >this century and see women running around in cold weather with >the stretch of leg between the bottom of their coats to the top of >their short boots covered by nothing but hose. How did they keep >from freezing?!). We didn't. We suffered. Actually, at the same time as short skirts and boots were popular, the ankle length maxicoat came into style. I didn't have one, though, just a long black cloak (If there had been Goths in 1972, I'd have been one). Margo ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 14:34:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06145 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:34:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA11464; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:45:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA12287 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:41:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA12269 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:41:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100seC-0000xI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:41:41 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990114112923.00bbb6e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:30:31 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Dear Katya, >Your baby walker outfit sounds so cool! Any way to see pictures? There aren't any. But if you know the period at all you can make one of these dress/walker combinations. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 14:34:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06146 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:34:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA11480; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:45:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA12291 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:41:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA12277 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:41:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.165] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100seE-0000xI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:41:43 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990114113105.00bc3830@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:34:52 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan In-Reply-To: <199901140000.QAA26957@smtp.pacifier.com> References: <4.1.19990113114444.00b645a0@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >None of the walkers I've seen from the 14th century through at least >the 16th Century would prevent the child's reach or keep them from >tipping or going through doorways. Me neither. They have square bases, like mine had under the round plastic bits. Some look like modern old-people walkers, and some look like mine with a seat in the middle. >One of the most common things which maimed and killed children of >that time is falling into the fire. > >Leading strings attached to the backs of the doublet or shoulders of >the tunic is something you also see with the pre16th century. This is >so charming (and very costume oriented;) and it works. I think the leading strings are the method of tying a baby to your own apron strings. It gives a toddler about 6' of 'freedom' in any direction, and gives Mom a handle. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 16:01:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06690 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:01:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA22300; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:13:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA05936 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:09:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (root@jefferson.patriot.net [206.151.9.249]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA05924 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:09:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.151.9.18] (th-0-9.patriot.net [206.151.9.18]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA04527 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:04:23 -0500 Message-Id: <199901142104.QAA04527@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: undergarments Date: Thu, 14 Jan 99 16:08:23 -0500 x-sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia R asked, > Anyone know where to find one >of those today, or at least something without underwires that doesnt look >like one of those Playtex pointy things? Who still wears those? They >havent changed since the fifties, I dont think. Another source - the Vermont Country Store has cotton bras without underwires. I don't know if they have the size range some people were seeking. Vermont Country Store also has slips & pants liners. They have all sorts of old-fashioned items that are useful to costumers. Another favorite of mine is the extra large metal hairpins. Of course, I can't find a catalog now to share information. And I thought getting rid of clutter was a good thing! -Carol Kocian _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 16:10:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06738 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:10:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA23826; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:22:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA07641 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:18:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp0-alterdial.uu.net (smtp0-alterdial.UU.NET [192.48.96.28]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA07623 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:18:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from jwilbur1 by smtp0-alterdial.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: 119.pcpool89.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.89.119]) id QQfyef11003 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:18:03 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:18:30 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Peasant garb Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" The Poulet Gauche web page has some information on peasant dress in the 16th c. (though of course they are French-oriented). The gallery page has some good pictures, some of which are the same as the ones on Drea's page. There are some different ones, though. I like the Poulet Gauche Poster Girl's outfit, myself... There are some tips for making that outfit on the page. Here's the URL for the gallery page: http://www.lepg.org/gallery.htm Hope this helps! --Jessica > > -Poster: The Purple Elephant > > I found a cheap piece of wool in the remnant box of a local fabric store, > about the size to make a bodice, and have a strange hankering to make > some nice accurate lower class garb....ie I don't want to make the > standard SCA 'wenching' garb. > I have been looking at the paintings of Pieter Brueghel (any idea where to > find piccies of English peasants ?). I notice that in the summer scenes > the women wear sleeveless bodices (sometimes with separate sleeves pinned > on) and skirts. Some of the skirts are different colours from the bodices > - does this mean they are separate objects or are they still seamed > together? If the latter, would it be okay to make the skirt out of a > different fabric, not just a different colour (ie say a linen skirt on a > wool bodicve)? > In the winter scenes the women wear closed, long-sleeved gowns. Would they > likely be wearing these over the 'summer' garb described above? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, > Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" > and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson > friendly substance. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 16:13:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06751 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:13:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA24182; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:24:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA14651 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:51:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA14639 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:51:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.175] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 100snn-0001Ts-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:51:35 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990114114306.00bbc920@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:44:28 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan In-Reply-To: <369D4CD8.5881060A@ricochet.net> References: <4.1.19990113114444.00b645a0@pop.slip.net> <199901140000.QAA26957@smtp.pacifier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >In the "Shakespeare's Birthplace" house in Stratford, there is a "child >minder" that would prevent this. In the floor and ceiling, there is a socket, >and into it is fitted a pole, so that it can turn freely. On the pole, at >about the height of a child's waist, is a short horizontal bar, with a strap >that would go around the child. The child can then run in circles (or >possibly sit down, if the bar is adjustable) within a limited range -- never >getting close to the fire or geting away to another room. I have seen a photo of this contraption. Not what I would call a walker, but the floor shows signs of heavy use by some little person(s). Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 16:13:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06755 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:13:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA24246; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:25:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA14684 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:51:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from isomedia.com (root@watson.isomedia.com [207.149.221.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA14654 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:51:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from wingate (pm514.isomedia.com [207.149.222.221]) by isomedia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA15552 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:13:36 -0800 From: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:51:26 -0800 Message-ID: <000101be3ff7$459de400$ddde95cf@wingate> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <369D2EB4.4330E07B@pacbell.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" I really have to agree with Dietmar. I too think they are gloves. The wrinkles between each finger of his right hand look like they are made from very thin leather. I wish there was a larger picture to look at- I find it difficult in most online pictures to distinguish details. ~Gail > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Dietmar > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 3:40 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting > > > > -Poster: Dietmar > > Greetings all, > > Teddy wrote: > > > What puzzles me is that under the ruffles at the wrists of the > shirt there > > is a row of tabs/picadils. I thought a first that the subject might be > > wearing gloves, and these tabs were decorating the opening at the wrist, > > but on closer inspection, the finger-nails are visible on at least the > > left hand of the sitter. > > I may be in the minority, but I think that they are gloves. The > color of the > tabs are the same color as the rest of the hand and the > 'fingernails' don't > show enough detail. Tight fitting kid gloves can show that kind > of detail. > It's really tough to make a call based on the picture on the web, > but until I > see a better picture, I'm going to assume that there are gloves. > > Regards, > > Dietmar > > > "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; > over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 16:13:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06759 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:13:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA24306; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:25:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA15221 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:54:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from isomedia.com (root@watson.isomedia.com [207.149.221.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA15145 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:53:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from wingate (pm514.isomedia.com [207.149.222.221]) by isomedia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA15735 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:15:50 -0800 From: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Lecture on 1790s Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:53:41 -0800 Message-ID: <000201be3ff7$95b212e0$ddde95cf@wingate> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <199901140630.BAA16115@jefferson.patriot.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" Oh, this sounds good! Too bad I'm in the wrong Washington! ;-( Perhaps you could put your paper online? I'd love to read it!! ~Gail > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of aquazoo@patriot.net > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 10:34 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Lecture on 1790s > > > > -Poster: > > > > Sat., Jan. 16, 1999, 1 p.m., Gadsby's Tavern Museum, 134 N Royal St., > Alex. Va. 703-836-2863; Free w/admission or $4 for adults: "The 1790s: > Bridging the Fashion Gap," Lecture by Alden O'Brien, Assoc. Curator of > Costume, DAR Museum. "The 1790s is a fascinating but neglected decade in > the history of costume. How did fashion make the transition from the > stiff-bodied, voluminous dresses of George Washington's time to the > soft, high-waisted styles of the era of Jane Austen? Both men's and > women's fashions underwent a period of great innovation and > experimentation." > > This lecture is a revised, expanded and improved (I hope) version of the > lecture I gave at the 1st Gadsby's Symposium two years ago. Here I'll > venture into men's dress a bit, and will go into details of construction > of the variety of transitional styles that appear in the 1790s, with > more conservative uses overlapping with newer styles and piecing > methods. Some attention will be given to accessories and hair, but I > want to concentrate on the dress construction overall--also the > transitional underpinnings. Hope to see some of you there! > > No reservations necessary; for more info call 703-838-4605. > > Alden O'Brien > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 16:32:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06852 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:32:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA27215; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:43:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA11483 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:39:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from mb06.swip.net (mb06.swip.net [193.12.122.210]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA11440 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:39:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.244.199.181] (dialup199-3-53.swipnet.se [130.244.199.181]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA06212 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:39:34 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: md21199@dredd.swip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <369D2EB4.4330E07B@pacbell.net> References: <342DD1B1150@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:39:41 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ninni M Pettersson Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ninni M Pettersson At 00.39 +0100 99-01-14, Dietmar wrote: >Teddy wrote: > >> What puzzles me is that under the ruffles at the wrists of the shirt there >> is a row of tabs/picadils. I thought a first that the subject might be >> wearing gloves, and these tabs were decorating the opening at the wrist, >> but on closer inspection, the finger-nails are visible on at least the >> left hand of the sitter. > >I may be in the minority, but I think that they are gloves. The color of the >tabs are the same color as the rest of the hand and the 'fingernails' don't >show enough detail. Tight fitting kid gloves can show that kind of detail. >It's really tough to make a call based on the picture on the web, but until I >see a better picture, I'm going to assume that there are gloves. After taking a long and detailed look (I downloaded the picture and used another program to enlarge it) I agree with Dietmar. Both because the yellowish / buff colour of the tabs and the colour of the hands match (and they *don't* match the colour of the face - that is much pinker); and because I seem to see "wrinkles" on the hands that look more like thin leather or cloth than skin (at the lower part of fingers on the right hand for example) and the nail also looks like it has a tightly stretched layer of thin leather or cloth over it. /Ninni Pettersson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 16:37:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06891 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:37:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA27898; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:49:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA12631 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:44:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA12614 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:44:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA05033 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:45:08 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:45:08 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> My difficulty with this idea is that I see no seams on the hands that would imply that he's wearing gloves. On the other hand, I didn't see any seams elsewhere, either, and I'm not sure if that's because the artist didn't pay attention to seams, or that the fabric is just too dark for me too see on this monitor. Can you see any on the enlargement? Emma > > -Poster: Ninni M Pettersson > > After taking a long and detailed look (I downloaded the picture and > used another program to enlarge it) I agree with Dietmar. Both because the > yellowish / buff colour of the tabs and the colour of the hands match (and > they *don't* match the colour of the face - that is much pinker); and > because I seem to see "wrinkles" on the hands that look more like thin > leather or cloth than skin (at the lower part of fingers on the right hand > for example) and the nail also looks like it has a tightly stretched layer > of thin leather or cloth over it. > > /Ninni Pettersson > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 16:50:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07006 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:50:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA29601; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:01:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA15367 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:57:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from fw2.roguewave.com (firewall-user@fw2.roguewave.com [208.151.233.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA15268 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:57:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by fw2.roguewave.com; id NAA07862; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:52:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com(10.68.4.36) via SMTP by net.indra.com, id smtpd007853; Thu Jan 14 13:52:35 1999 Received: by cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:57:53 -0800 Message-ID: From: Betsy Perry To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: RE: Vermont Country Store Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:57:50 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Betsy Perry The VCS has very useful hair stuff: rats (the kind you use for puffy hair), large plastic 'tortoiseshell' hairpins, you name it. Also Florida Water, Burt's Bees, LiLi of Bermuda perfumes, a non-synthetic violet perfume (!), and other goodies. 1-802-362-8300, or P.O. Box 3200 Manchester Ctr, VT 05255-3200 --- Elizabeth Hanes Perry Rogue Wave Software > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 16:51:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07016 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:51:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA29748; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:02:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA15648 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:58:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA15632 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:58:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip226-2.cc.interlog.com [207.34.226.2]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA18169 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:58:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990114165243.00935a70@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:52:43 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Other new list: what was it again? In-Reply-To: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3017B0694@nt13pv.apsc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Last week or so, one of the 'regulars' posted information on a new list for >historical women's issues - could you repost please-or send to me off-list? >Thanks in advance. When was this posted? I really don't think I'm getting every message. :( Thanks, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 16:53:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07039 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:53:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA29998; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:04:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA14327 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:52:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA14018 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:52:04 -0700 (MST) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id TRDa023181 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:50:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:50:58 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 190 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 1/14/99 3:45:22 PM Central Standard Time, 00217146@bigred.unl.edu writes: << My difficulty with this idea is that I see no seams on the hands that would imply that he's wearing gloves. >> Okay, once again I somehow missed something. This time it is the url of where this picture is at. Can someone please send it to me? Kelly Albrecht m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 16:57:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07087 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:57:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA00502; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:08:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA16896 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:04:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA16782 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:04:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA04780 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:04:53 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:04:53 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 M311@aol.com wrote: > > << My difficulty with this idea is that I see no seams on the hands that > would imply that he's wearing gloves. >> > > Okay, once again I somehow missed something. This time it is the url of where > this picture is at. Can someone please send it to me? > Kelly Albrecht > m311@aol.com Sorry, that should have been included. http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/mabuse/baudouin.jpg _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 17:00:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA07146 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:00:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA01190; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:12:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA17798 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:08:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from x15.engin.umich.edu (root@x15.engin.umich.edu [141.212.198.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA17781 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:08:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (parsla@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by x15.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA03651 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:08:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:08:20 -0500 (EST) From: Parsla Liepa To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Parsla Liepa Why would his hands be the same color as his face? My aren't. Parsla > > > > << My difficulty with this idea is that I see no seams on the hands that > > would imply that he's wearing gloves. >> > > > > Okay, once again I somehow missed something. This time it is the url of where > > this picture is at. Can someone please send it to me? > > Kelly Albrecht > > m311@aol.com > > Sorry, that should have been included. > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/mabuse/baudouin.jpg _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 17:48:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA07510 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:48:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA07286; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:00:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA26702 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:55:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from VAX5.ACER.EDU.AU (vax5.acer.edu.au [203.2.133.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA26640 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:55:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from exchange.acer.edu.au ([203.2.133.26]) by vms.acer.edu.au (PMDF V5.1-12 #22802) with ESMTP id <01J6KDG8EOH28WWN06@vms.acer.edu.au> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:57:11 +1100 Received: by exchange.acer.edu.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:50:05 +1100 Content-return: allowed Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:49:56 +1100 From: Harvey Georgia Subject: H-COST: 50's/60's Underwear To: "'H-costume'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Harvey Georgia Now *here's* a question a friend and I were discussing this week, having recently acquired some of those long, boned (50s??) girdles, that goes from under the bust to thigh level. Are these the 50s ones? What did one wear under them? And, if one did wear something under them, how on earth does one manage to go to the toilet in under half an hour? And, if not, how does one manage to look...decent... Georgia -in search of knowledge :-) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 20:20:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA08422 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:20:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA27181; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:32:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA22957 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:28:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA22929 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:28:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id LAA11634 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:58:07 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA19410; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:57:58 +1030 Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:57:58 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: costume list Subject: Re: H-COST: Peasant garb In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, aleed wrote: > > I've harvested a bunch of lower class garb pics from the 1550s to 1570s > (almost all of them Flemish) with the intention of putting together a web > page on the subject eventually...but you can check out the pictures > at http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/lowerclass/piclist.html . Between > them all, the pictures contain clear images of most pieces of clothing. The curious thing is, I was pootling about on the web yesterday and found this very page!!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 21:06:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08660 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:06:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA02650; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:18:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA28434 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:14:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA28421 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:14:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip185.an5-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.16.185]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA19217 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:14:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369E972E.466CCDC3@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:17:36 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Keeping Legs Warm in "The Old Days!" References: <000001be3ff6$2005ac60$1b14ffd0@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Hope H. Dunlap wrote: > Then in the early sixties, there were knee-sox and > petti-pants. Petti-pants were drawers of brushed nylon or > nylon tricot to a few inches above the knee. They were > highly decorated near the hems with tucks, lace, and > ribbons. They were great! > I had totally forgotten about petti-pants! I also remember, when I was very little, say 3 or 4 (1949/50), outfits with matching coats and leggings, as they were called: they were actually heavy wool pants of a fabric that matched the coat, and you wore them under your dress (my mother still has pictures). The knitted tubes you described are what dancers call 'legwarmers', and dancers still wear them; I wish they hadn't gone out of fashion, as they were awfully handy. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 21:08:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08670 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:08:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA02848; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:20:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA28584 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:15:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA28560 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:15:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip185.an5-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.16.185]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA20547 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:15:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369E9774.8F7D0C8E@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:18:46 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Lecture on 1790s References: <000201be3ff7$95b212e0$ddde95cf@wingate> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith wrote: > Perhaps you > could put your paper online? I'd love to read it!! > ~Gail > Ditto. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 21:14:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08703 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:14:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA03635; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:26:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA29302 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:21:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA29293 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:21:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip185.an5-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.16.185]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA27934 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:21:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369E98E1.2DE8B7F8@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:24:51 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 50's/60's Underwear References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Harvey Georgia wrote: > -Poster: Harvey Georgia > > Now *here's* a question a friend and I were discussing this week, having > recently acquired some of those long, boned (50s??) girdles, that goes from > under the bust to thigh level. Are these the 50s ones? > > What did one wear under them? And, if one did wear something under them, how > on earth does one manage to go to the toilet in under half an hour? And, if > not, how does one manage to look...decent... > > Georgia > -in search of knowledge :-) > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME If these are the kind that snap to the stocking, I seem to remember that one unsnapped the garters and rolled them up to reach the panties. With the shorter ones, you wore your panties *over* the girdle, and it was simple enough to take them down. Lauri, eternally grateful to not have worn one of these in at least thirty-five years. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 21:16:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08721 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:16:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA04042; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:28:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA29486 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:24:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA29474 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:24:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip185.an5-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.16.185]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00552 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:24:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369E9964.9B2C1136@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:27:02 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Wonderful words References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson The Purple Elephant wrote: > The curious thing is, I was pootling about on the web yesterday and found > this very page!!!! > thank you for making me chuckle with that delightful word! Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 22:22:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA09136 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:22:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA12189; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:33:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA07535 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:29:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id UAA07513 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:29:23 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:29:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 22747 invoked from network); 15 Jan 1999 03:24:56 -0000 Received: from 133.240.3-3.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.133) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 1999 03:24:56 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990114192924.085f31ca@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Baa baa black sheep? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 05:28 PM 01/13/1999 -0800, Gia Gavino-Gattshall wrote: > >-Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" > >Greetings, again! > >I was singing the nursery rhyme with my Amybyrlee when I became >curious...Were there sheep with black wool, medievally? Where would one >find such a beastie, if there were black wool producing sheep? Or is this a >rather modern genetically induced sheep? > >Gia/Giacinta >costuming nut, ever curious... Any sheep that is not pure white is a "black sheep". And the colors range from grays and light browns to brown-black to reddish-browns. All these colors are natural and could have been found in medieval sheep. Of course, the white wool takes dyes much more clearly than naturally-colored wool, so it was more valuable. The "black" wools, of whatever shade, could well have been given to the poor. >From one with far too many spinning wheels and spindles and far too little time to use them, Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 22:27:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA09166 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:27:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA12762; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:38:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA08058 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:34:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id UAA08038 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:34:03 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:34:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 24144 invoked from network); 15 Jan 1999 03:29:40 -0000 Received: from 133.240.3-3.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.133) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 1999 03:29:40 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990114193408.085f6d10@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: leading strings Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich And whenever I see a youngster with a modern version of leading strings (usually when I am at Sutter's Fort during Crafts Demonstration Days [see, I can bring in costume ]), I always compliment them on their cleverness wearing them to make certain that Mommy (or Daddy) doesn't get lost . Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA At 05:23 PM 01/13/1999 -0800, Gia Gavino-Gattshall wrote: > >-Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" > >Love the walker idea! > >When Ambyr was about 1, I did a dress for her with leading strings. >Wonderful for going through merchants row! > >A walker wasn't really practical for me, though, for she was a 'climber' >before she was a 'walker' and she kept escaping from the walker! So leading >strings worked better. > >I also did a stroller 'cozy' out of a tapestry type of material so that the >modern stroller was 'hidden'. Not period (I think?) but it worked >especially when she needed a nap and wouldn't lay down. A spin in the >stroller usually did the trick to get her nodding off! > >Giacinta > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 22:39:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA09222 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:39:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA13897; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:52:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA09748 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:47:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.alltel.net (mail.alltel.net [166.102.165.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA09742 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:47:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from days.alltel.net ([166.102.152.94]) by mail.alltel.net (8.9.1/ALLTEL Messaging Service) with ESMTP id VAA28743 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:47:45 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199901150347.VAA28743@mail.alltel.net> From: " The days" To: Subject: H-COST: Survey of Fabrics Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:39:59 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: " The days" Hello! I seem to have seen a earlier post for someone wanting the "Survey of Period Fabrics" from the stock clerk's office of the SCA. I can't find the origional message from who it may have come from. If this person subscribes to this list please contact me at days@alltel.net fro mor information. Thank you. Scarlett Day _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 22:52:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA09295 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:52:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA15054; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:04:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA11164 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:00:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA11051 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:59:16 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id MAIHa15290 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:56:57 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:56:57 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I have to agree with Dietmar. I examined the picture and I think they are gloves too. Thin, tight gloves of fine leather or kidskin can show detail like that. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 23:13:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA09417 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:13:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA16722; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:25:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA13570 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:20:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA13555 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:20:54 -0700 (MST) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 6IPPa03210 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:19:22 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:19:22 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 190 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 1/14/99 10:00:27 PM Central Standard Time, Appin1@aol.com writes: << I have to agree with Dietmar. I examined the picture and I think they are gloves too. Thin, tight gloves of fine leather or kidskin can show detail like that. >> I looked at the picture today on my computer. Now I have a 17 inch moniter and things look differently on them since things are bigger. In the case of looking at pictures of clothes and paintings I have always found them a plus. On my screen I think it just looks like hands, no gloves. I just don't see gloves at all. Just thought that I would let you know. Kelly Albrecht m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 14 23:36:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA09551 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:36:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA18689; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:48:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA15741 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:43:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from hummer.tci.net (hummer.TCI.NET [209.19.4.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA15734 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:43:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303-a (c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.4.53.172]) by hummer.tci.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id C6F4DYRZ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:42:57 -0700 Message-ID: <007401be4042$bba00c00$ac350418@c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:48:33 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" They look like a pair of gloves I have but they were made with in the last 20 years. Very soft and supple kid, very fragile now, they fit so wonderfully that you can see the outlines of my finger nails. But I think that what happened in this painting, and you would have to ask the conservationist to see if they did an x-ray of it, is that the artist painted the structure of the hands first then painted the gloves on top of the hands. Wild guess on my part. Upon color analysis by my eye and 2 different art programs, vector and raster, the color coding of the piccalils matches the last collar that is all but hidden on the right side of the neck more than the gloves, my vote is that it is an undershirt that is separate from the rest of the outfit. Sincerely, Ches aka Chiara Francesca Steward of Coronation XL http://www.io.com/~ches/coronation99 -----Original Message----- From: M311@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 10:16 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting : :-Poster: M311@aol.com : :In a message dated 1/14/99 10:00:27 PM Central Standard Time, Appin1@aol.com :writes: : :<< I have to agree with Dietmar. I examined the picture and I think they are : gloves too. Thin, tight gloves of fine leather or kidskin can show detail :like : that. : : >> _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 01:17:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA10895 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:17:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA27529; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:29:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA25603 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:24:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA25595 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:24:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.210] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1012gW-0000qV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:24:45 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990114145735.00bca5b0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990114145735.00bca5b0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:05:11 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting In-Reply-To: <369D2EB4.4330E07B@pacbell.net> References: <342DD1B1150@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >I may be in the minority, but I think that they are gloves. The color of the >tabs are the same color as the rest of the hand and the 'fingernails' don't >show enough detail. Tight fitting kid gloves can show that kind of detail. >It's really tough to make a call based on the picture on the web, but until I >see a better picture, I'm going to assume that there are gloves. > The tab-things look like the slashed glove cuffs I have seen in other pictures from this period. Slashed glove cuffs are done in about four to six slashes around, rather than in half-inch-apart slashes the way doublet sleeve-ends are. Gloves are often rendered thin like this with no seams visible, and with the cuffs folded toward the hand. My vote is for gloves, a status-symbol accessory of this period. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 01:17:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA10896 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:17:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA27672; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:29:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA25665 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:25:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA25629 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:24:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.210] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1012gi-0000qV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:24:56 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990114212056.00be8ef0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:26:42 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >The names of colors are their own reward. Why does "watchet" mean light blue? I own two dictionaries which list watchet, a Websters New International Dictionary, Second Edition from 1950 and a Century Cyclopedia from 1906. Both cite Old North French as the language of origin. The Websters thinks the origin is obscure (duh), and the Century Cyclopedia thinks it originally relates to the word 'woad', tho it gives no intermediate derrivation. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 01:17:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA10902 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:17:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA27698; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:29:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA25689 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:25:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA25644 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:25:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.210] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1012gl-0000qV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:25:01 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990114213624.00be7e30@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:38:09 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: h-costume-digest V4 #35 In-Reply-To: <199901141609.JAA20291@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Dylon dye. It is as easy to use as that dye-emulater Rit, but it is real dye. >I am making a new 16th century upper-middle class outfit for faire this >year. I have found a brought a brocade that is white and I want to dye it >burgandy... It is 100% cotton and takes dye well (I tried a swatch before I >bought it) My one concern is that, with the intensity of the sun baking me >all day it will most likely fade quickly with RIT. Is there any way to keep >this from happening? Is there a finish I can put on to keep it from fading? >Is there a better kind of dye than RIT that I can use that won't fade so >easily? Anyone have any tips? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 01:18:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA10910 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:18:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA27779; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:30:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA25696 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:25:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA25674 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:25:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.210] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1012gp-0000qV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:25:04 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990114214414.00bc54d0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:20:09 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Keeping Legs Warm in "The Old Days!" In-Reply-To: <000001be3ff6$2005ac60$1b14ffd0@default> References: <199901141607.IAA00763@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I'd like >to hear from those who remember the 20's-40's and hear how >they dealt with the chill! My mother (born 1924) says wear warm coats and walk faster. In Montana (on a family farm) she says her mother (born 1880) made her wear wool stockings with garters (late 20's). Boots cost too much, so her mother never had them for outdoors wear. They didn't wear hats except to dress up nice. (I can't believe they didn't have some kind of hats in a Montana winter, but my mother was young when they moved to California and may not remember hats.) She says cold is mostly across the shoulders, so they wore more coats and sweaters in winter in Southern California (San Diego, 30's-40's). Overshoes and galoshes are nice and warm, but were mostly used for keeping out rain and wet, she says. She remembers that my grandmother from Portland Oregon, her Mother-in-law, wrapped a scarf around her head in winter and wore a long coat. Mom differentiates between a jacket and what she calls a long coat (which I would just call a coat). The grandmother in Oregon grew up on a farm, but I don't know when she was born. Mom and Dad went to college in Oregon in the late 40's, by which time it was OK for her to wear trousers in the winter. She says that one winter in Minneapolis when she was in high school (late 30's) she had to wear two long sleeved garments at the same time for the first time, and remembers having to be told to grab the cuffs of the underneath layer so the sleeves wouldn't ride up. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 01:18:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA10911 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:18:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA27775; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:30:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA25694 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:25:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA25657 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:25:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.210] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1012go-0000qV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:25:02 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990114214048.00be4400@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:42:07 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: re:undergarments In-Reply-To: <000201be3ff1$50e7f680$e517ffd0@default> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >When I was in elementary school in the 1950's I wouldn't be >caught dead without my frothy nylon tafetta and lace slip >petticoats to make my skirts stand out. It was a great >pleasure to buy two more each year and to wear them, as they >were in and of themselves so pretty and not the least bit of >trouble. Nasty things to sit on. I remember these, and nylon net marks on my legs. Itchy scratchy and no fun. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 01:39:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA11016 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:39:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA29643; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:52:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA27447 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:47:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA27441 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:47:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from gti.net (morr0683.gti.net [208.216.122.83]) by gti.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA04605 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:47:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <369EE3BB.3A0E0EDF@gti.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:44:11 -0500 From: "Lisa R." X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Lecture on 1790s References: <199901140630.BAA16115@jefferson.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Lisa R." Hi- I would love to attend the Gadsby's Tavern lecture but unfortunately cannot. Is there some way I could receive/purchase any literature/info. packet that may be part of the lecture? Please? Deb Rand aquazoo@patriot.net wrote: > -Poster: > > Sat., Jan. 16, 1999, 1 p.m., Gadsby's Tavern Museum, 134 N Royal St., > Alex. Va. 703-836-2863; Free w/admission or $4 for adults: "The 1790s: > Bridging the Fashion Gap," Lecture by Alden O'Brien, Assoc. Curator of > Costume, DAR Museum. "The 1790s is a fascinating but neglected decade in > the history of costume. How did fashion make the transition from the > stiff-bodied, voluminous dresses of George Washington's time to the > soft, high-waisted styles of the era of Jane Austen? Both men's and > women's fashions underwent a period of great innovation and > experimentation." > > This lecture is a revised, expanded and improved (I hope) version of the > lecture I gave at the 1st Gadsby's Symposium two years ago. Here I'll > venture into men's dress a bit, and will go into details of construction > of the variety of transitional styles that appear in the 1790s, with > more conservative uses overlapping with newer styles and piecing > methods. Some attention will be given to accessories and hair, but I > want to concentrate on the dress construction overall--also the > transitional underpinnings. Hope to see some of you there! > > No reservations necessary; for more info call 703-838-4605. > > Alden O'Brien > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 04:06:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA17422 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:06:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA07531; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 02:19:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA07801 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 02:14:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA07796 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 02:14:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([12.66.33.179]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990115091419.TBG19944@LOCALNAME> for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:14:19 +0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Connie Carroll" Organization: Home For Deranged Bunnies To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:12:33 +0000 Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.30) Message-Id: <19990115091419.TBG19944@LOCALNAME> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Connie Carroll" Would someone repost the URL for the painting or tell how to find it on the web site. I couldn't get there. Kassandra NickKraken JUST CALL ME MISTRESS BUNNY _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 08:47:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA18796 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:47:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA17791; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:00:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA20106 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:55:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA20089 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:55:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-69.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.69]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA26852 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:55:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990114172449.00924a10@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:24:49 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting In-Reply-To: <006201be3f5a$b63cd880$6d63b5cf@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Here's another link: (the one Teddy provided doesn't work from my server) >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/mabuse/baudouin.jpg I had the same problem. >>Is this man wearing another, long sleeved, garment *under* that >>beautiful shirt, the only part visible being the picadils/tabs at >>the wrist?? Nope, I think they are gloves. If you look at the left side of his index finger on his right hand I see a faint line which *could* be a seam. I also think that the wrinkles shown are in the wrong place for a bare hand. >The picadilled cuffs look very leathery, especially when you consider >the width between snips, there's no evident fraying, and the colour - a >sort of light rose-orange - is also suggestive. I would have to agree with this as well. Also the Spanish were known for making incredibly fine leather gloves. There are records of a Spanish noble woman (can't remember who) who bought her gloves a gross at a time! This suggests to me that they were so fine that they would wear out quickly - these gloves seem to me, to be of that sort. >Or is it possible that this fabric has been sewn on beneath as a guard to >protect the delicately pleated cuffs? Well I've never seen any evidence for something like that. I don't understand what the guards would be sewn to? >He's wearing three garments for certain - the creamy brocade robe, the >slashed black doublet, the very full and decorated shirt. Is it possible >that he is also wearing a leather underdoublet and perhaps an undershirt >beneath that, for comfort? In my understanding of 16th century layering is: he *could* have worn another shirt under that one but not a doublet or jerkin. Isn't his outfit just gorgeous though! I think it's interesting that his sleeves, doublet/jerkin, and hosen are all a very dark blue or a very blue black. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 08:47:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA18797 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:47:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA17793; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:00:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA20108 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:55:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA20090 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:55:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-69.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.69]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA26861 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:55:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990114173301.00924970@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:33:01 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: H-COST: On the subject of children & puzzles In-Reply-To: <006201be3f5a$b63cd880$6d63b5cf@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, Isn't the outfit on Giovanni de Medici strange for a child? You can see leg! http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/b/bronzino/portrait/g_medici.jpg Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 09:00:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA18872 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:00:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA18669; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:13:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA21313 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (root@april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA21293 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA23354 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:02:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA14786 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:09:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:09:33 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990114172449.00924a10@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed > >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/mabuse/baudouin.jpg > > >>Is this man wearing another, long sleeved, garment *under* that > >>beautiful shirt, the only part visible being the picadils/tabs at > >>the wrist?? I, too, think they are gloves--the coloring is different than that of his face, and there are distinct wrinkles between his fingers. Another portrait of his which shows a man's hands (http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/mabuse/carondel.jpg) has the man's hands and face painted an identical color & texture, and lacks the wrinkles that baudouin.jpg has. This is one of those cases where a look at the original painting would be incredibly useful. Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 10:00:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19195 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:00:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA23692; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:14:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA28019 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:08:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA27985 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:08:16 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip233.van19.pacifier.com [216.65.141.233]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA25762 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151508.HAA25762@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:20 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Baa baa black sheep? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <2.2.16.19990114192924.085f31ca@mail2.quiknet.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > Any sheep that is not pure white is a "black sheep". And the colors range > from grays and light browns to brown-black to reddish-browns. All these > colors are natural and could have been found in medieval sheep. Of course, > the white wool takes dyes much more clearly than naturally-colored wool, so > it was more valuable. The "black" wools, of whatever shade, could well have > been given to the poor. >From what I understand, when you are trying to get a really white flock, the black sheep lambs became stew, sausage, lamb chops, etc. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 10:00:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19194 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:00:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA23679; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA28006 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:08:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA27995 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:08:17 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip233.van19.pacifier.com [216.65.141.233]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA29860 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151508.HAA29860@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:20 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Keeping Legs Warm in "The Old Days!" Priority: normal In-reply-to: <369E972E.466CCDC3@earthlink.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > The knitted tubes you described are what dancers call 'legwarmers', and > dancers still wear them; I wish they hadn't gone out of fashion, as they > were awfully handy. They're out of fashion!!!! Oh, no. I guess I'll have to stop wearing mine! Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 10:03:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19215 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:03:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA24145; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:16:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA28364 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:10:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA28346 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:10:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip40.an7-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.18.40]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA24810 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:10:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369F4D1C.148F1F81@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:13:49 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours References: <4.1.19990114212056.00be8ef0@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > I own two dictionaries which list watchet, a Websters New International > Dictionary, Second Edition from 1950 and a Century Cyclopedia from 1906. > Both cite Old North French as the language of origin. The Websters thinks > the origin is obscure (duh), and the Century Cyclopedia thinks it > originally relates to the word 'woad', tho it gives no intermediate > derrivation. > The OED says much the same: definitely from Old French, possibly related to 'woad' but the derivation can't be established with certainty. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 10:39:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19417 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:39:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA28368; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:52:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA04558 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:46:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f262.hotmail.com [207.82.251.153]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id IAA04546 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:46:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 9967 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jan 1999 15:46:18 -0000 Message-ID: <19990115154618.9966.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 157.182.175.116 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:46:17 PST X-Originating-IP: [157.182.175.116] From: "karrissa david" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Just an Introduction Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:46:17 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "karrissa david" Hello All, My name is Karrissa David. I have been searching for this list serve for a while. I am glad I have found it. I have just started to study the history of clothing. I has intrigued me for a very long time now. I was introduced to a couple of organtizations which study rennaisance (sp?) history and fell in love. Now I am trying to get all of the information that I can. I am a secretary by day and a fashion designer by night. I wouldn't mind history repeating itself when it comes to fashion. I use many historical elements in my designs. I also have started recreating historical pieces for myself and would like to open a business doing such. I have found tons of patterns and books on sillouetts. However, I would love to get information on fabric used as well as popular colors. I hope to get lots of information. I look forward to hearing from you. Karrissa ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 10:46:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19482 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:46:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA29687; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:00:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA06191 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:54:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA06183 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:54:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from 168.191.22.96 (sdn-ar-002dcwashP318.dialsprint.net [168.191.22.96]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA13960 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:54:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369F222A.15AE255C@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:10:47 +0000 From: margo king X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Help! with Victorian X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <4.1.19990114212056.00be8ef0@pop.slip.net> <369F4D1C.148F1F81@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: margo king Dear List - I need some help! The Theme of The 45th Washington Antiques Show (Jan6-9, 2000) is "Behind Closed Doors: Victorian Secrets". In both our eductional catalogue, loan exhibition, and Symposium we want to take a look at things that were not what they appeared to be - for example - all the corsetry that produced a great figure but caused all those problems. This look at things will extend into other areas - fantastic silver that upon looking at it you can't imaginewhat it is - "slice of real life". Does anyone have a reference for early Victorian ladies putting bits of material on back side of buttons impregnated with their 'perfume or scent' - as a remider of them when their men went to war, away, etc? Jewelry that was not what it appeared to be? Any Victorian refences, sources that are accurate (any subject area) would be wonderful.We are also looking for writers for catalogue/speakers for Symposium - thoughts, ideas are welcome. We are also thinking of doing a costume ball on Saturday, Jan 8, 2000. It would have to be more expensive than most period dances, sincewe are a charity show - but I think we have the population to draw from - Washington, DC metropolitan area. Talk to me please!!! Margo King, Show Chair 2000 - email directly (mkings@earthlink.net), through the list if you think info would be of general interest, or call 301-983-8835. THANKS! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 10:52:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19535 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:52:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA00726; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:06:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA07448 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:00:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA07441 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:00:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (2Cust39.tnt3.sfo3.da.uu.net [153.37.10.39]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28461 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:00:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369F66F2.BBF057A1@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:04:02 -0800 From: Christina Conklin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: ethnic costume -- eliz References: <199901141900.MAA01480@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christina Conklin > eliz . . . When youdo, could you please let me/us know where to find it online? > Many thanks, Christy > I have made and worn 16th C Mughal garb at SCA events and at Pennsic. > I've also made and worn SCA period Turkish, Russian, and Ukranian. > Those are my main areas of interest, and I have an extensive library. > Unfortunately, I have to update the online copy of my bibliography. > I'll try to make that available again in a couple of days. > > ...eliz > _________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 10:53:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19539 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:53:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA00848; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:06:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA07498 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:01:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id JAA07479 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:00:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from s244158.microweb.net [208.201.244.158] (HELO lisa) by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_0143_369f_75b3_cd2a; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:06:59 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990115075101.0097d880@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:59:58 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: Re: H-COST: Just an Introduction In-Reply-To: <19990115154618.9966.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel The people on this list are just wonderful for answering this sort of question, but you may also want to check out some of the available resources on the Web and see if you find the stuff you're looking for. I have a whole list of Renaissance Era links that includes some color and fabric inormation. http://reenactment.miningco.com/msub21.htm For the specific kind of information you're looking for, the Elizabethan Costuming Page (maintained by one of our very own list members) would be a great place to start. http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/general.html Also try some general costuming sites like: http://users.aol.com/nebula5/costume.html The history section includes several early Renaissance links, in addition to the Tudor and Elizabethan. http://users.aol.com/nebula5/tcpinfo2.html#history If you're more interested in early At 10:46 AM 1/15/99 -0500, you wrote: >I have found tons of patterns and books on sillouetts. However, I would >love to get information on fabric used as well as popular colors. > *********************** lisa scovel historical reenactment guide the mining co. http://reenactment.miningco.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 11:02:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19608 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:02:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA02158; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:16:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA09342 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:10:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA09327 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:10:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA18659 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:10:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369F6883.FA6B6ADD@serv.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:10:43 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True Probably isn't worth much, but I *totally* disagree. There is no way I could agree that he is wearing gloves. :) Doesn't mean I can explain the picked cuffs, however. :} Cynthia -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 11:15:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19698 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:15:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA03795; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:29:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA11924 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:23:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA11898 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:23:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from 168.191.22.96 (sdn-ar-002dcwashP318.dialsprint.net [168.191.22.96]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28905 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:23:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369F28FA.D8BC0DD8@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:40:01 +0000 From: margo king X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Textile Museum X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199901141900.MAA01480@indra.com> <369F66F2.BBF057A1@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: margo king Textile Museum - 2320 S Street, Washington, DC 20008 - (202-667-0441) - Founded in 1925 with the collection of George Hewitt-Myers, museum houses over 10,000 woven pieces of artistic and archaeological significance - museum is small, they can only display a fraction of their treasures. World's finest collecion of Peruin weavings. Library divided into fine arts, decorative arts, techniques, costumes, and textile processes (all organized by nationality!) Library open to public, gift shop has wide variety of books on textile work. They also have a newsletter. I have found the staff very good to work with, and helpful! Hopes this helps those that were wondering about the museum - a must see if you are visitingWashington. Margo King _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 11:16:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19705 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:16:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA03984; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:30:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA12164 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:24:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA12119 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:24:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.60]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA14560 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:20:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:20:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151620.IAA14560@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 11:30 AM 1/14/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > >>Dear Katya, >>Your baby walker outfit sounds so cool! Any way to see pictures? > >There aren't any. How many of us are guilty of this? I know I am, I've made dozens of costumes that never got photographed because I was waiting till I got around to getting then potographed in a proper setting, by a good photographer, etc. One of my New Year's resolutions is to keep a camera in my studio and never let anything out the door without a photo. It might not look pretty, but at least I'll have some kind of record. I saw that baby walker/farthingale, and it was awesome. A tiny elizabethan lady, scooting across the hall as she were on wheels..Oh! she is! Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 11:25:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19756 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:25:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA05097; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:38:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA13844 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:32:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA13805 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:32:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.60]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA16497 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:28:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:28:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151628.IAA16497@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Keeping Legs Warm in "The Old Days!" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson I'd like >to hear from those who remember the 20's-40's and hear how >they dealt with the chill! I have pictures of my father's sister in the 30's, in Brooklyn, all dressed up in wool coats with matching leggings. These were made of the same cloth as the coat, fitted to the leg, and came down over the shoe top and up higher than the coat hem. They buttoned up the sides, which must have been a tedious chore. These outfits were made for my aunt by her grandfather, a tailor, but I think it was the standard style for little girls. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 11:33:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19811 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:33:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA06303; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:46:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA15765 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:40:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA15733 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:40:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.60]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA18336 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:36:20 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:36:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151636.IAA18336@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Vermont Country Store Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >hair), large plastic 'tortoiseshell' hairpins, I just have to tell everyone: after years of searching for these hairpins in obscure outlets and paying big bucks for them, I've now found them at K-Mart! 2 for $2, with all the other hair stuff, packaged under the "Cosmopolitan" brand name. the same line includes hair sticks, combs, and other doodads, all in a good looking imitation tortoiseshell. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 11:34:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19818 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:34:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA06542; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:48:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA16291 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:42:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA16272 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:42:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.60]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA18752 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:38:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:38:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151638.IAA18752@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Other new list: what was it again? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 04:52 PM 1/14/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Danielle Nunn > >Greetings, > >>Last week or so, one of the 'regulars' posted information on a new list for >>historical women's issues - could you repost please-or send to me off-list? >>Thanks in advance. > >When was this posted? I really don't think I'm getting every message. :( I sent it on the 1st. I seem to have missed a few messages, too. Anybody know what could be going on? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 11:56:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19964 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:56:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA09988; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:10:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA23129 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:04:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA23050 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:03:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA16517 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:55:31 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:55:30 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: h-costume-digest V4 #35 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990114213624.00be7e30@pop.slip.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > Dylon dye. It is as easy to use as that dye-emulater Rit, but it is real dye. > > >I am making a new 16th century upper-middle class outfit for faire this > >year. I have found a brought a brocade that is white and I want to dye it > >burgandy... It is 100% cotton and takes dye well (I tried a swatch before I > >bought it) My one concern is that, with the intensity of the sun baking me > >all day it will most likely fade quickly with RIT. Is there any way to keep > >this from happening? Is there a finish I can put on to keep it from fading? > >Is there a better kind of dye than RIT that I can use that won't fade so > >easily? Anyone have any tips? Rit is real dye, of course, or it wouldnt dye fabric. The problem with Rit is that it has all different types of dye so that at least one of them will bind with whatever fabric you are using This means that the rest of it just washes down the drain, which I now realize is pretty wasteful. I used to run a theatrical costume shop and we bought Rit by the gallon. Now that I know more about dyeing, I would never do that. It's much more cost effective to buy smaller amounts of specific kinds of dyes. Sylvia. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 12:03:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20033 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:03:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA11148; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:17:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA24445 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA24384 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:10:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.23] (ell82.acadia.net [205.217.218.66]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA20416 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:10:37 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:10:40 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: gloves in paintings Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Yes, and keep in mind that whatever seams in the gloves might have been painted in may also have been faded/removed entirely by cleaning the painting in recent years. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 12:08:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20070 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:08:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA11919; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:21:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA21645 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:58:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA21618 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:58:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port1067.koeln.ndh.net [195.227.37.67]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id RAA28973 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:58:34 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3695DCEC.38A00EC3@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 11:24:53 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: book publication X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------56007D64D6AF7893DA2613F7" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef --------------56007D64D6AF7893DA2613F7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Are the patterns taken from extant garments, or are they the author's own > guesses? > > I would consider ordering the book if the patterns are from real garments. > > --Robin > Surviving garments of this medieval period are very rare, it is said in the book that they reconstructed the stitches from these but it is not mentioned whether they also copied the patterns from real garments. The most used method of medieval pattern reconstruction is looking at stone figures or paintings that have survived. So I can`t say for sure where the patterns originate from. > The bad news is that they don't have this book > Ok, so if somebody would like to get this book, please tell me. But I`m not sure about the shipping costs to the States yet, that also depends on if you choose surface or air mail. You could then send me the money ($26 + shipping) either in dollar notes in a letter (ok, could be risky) or wire it to my bank account. I`ve made bad experiences with checks, so that`s not the best method. If you`re interested, please contact me by personal e-mail, thanks! Many greetings, Diana --------------56007D64D6AF7893DA2613F7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 

Are the patterns taken from extant garments, or are they the author's own
guesses?

I would consider ordering the book if the patterns are from real garments. 

--Robin
Surviving garments of this medieval period are very rare, it is said in the book that they
reconstructed the stitches from these but it is not mentioned whether they also
copied the patterns from real garments.
The most used method of medieval pattern reconstruction is looking at stone figures
or paintings that have survived.
So I can`t say for sure where the patterns originate from.
  
The bad news is that they don't have this book
Ok, so if somebody would like to get this book, please tell me.
But I`m not sure about the shipping costs to the States yet, that also depends on
if you choose surface or air mail.
You could then send me the money ($26 + shipping) either in dollar notes in a letter
(ok, could be risky) or wire it to my bank account.
I`ve made bad experiences with checks, so that`s not the best method.
If you`re interested, please contact me by personal e-mail, thanks!

Many greetings,
Diana
  --------------56007D64D6AF7893DA2613F7-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 12:10:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20088 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:10:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA12457; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:24:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA25934 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:18:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (root@bigpapa.nothinbut.net [207.44.32.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA25925 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:18:32 -0700 (MST) From: pame@nothinbut.net Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (mtl-ct1-06.nothinbut.net [207.44.46.16]) by bigpapa.nothinbut.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA13200 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:18:31 -0500 Message-Id: <199901151718.MAA13200@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:16:10 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Priority: normal References: <199901111101.GAA24064@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pame@nothinbut.net > -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > > > For the record: How old is she now? > My oldest daughter is fifteen. She is 6 ft. tall and weighs around 119 lbs. Will she thicken up as she ages-my guess would be yes.. pame _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 12:17:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20121 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:17:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA13315; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:31:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA27241 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:25:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA27220 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:25:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from slave (BayArea56k442.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.42]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id JAA06410 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:25:31 -0800 Message-ID: <369F7904.16DE@netwiz.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:21:08 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Keeping Legs Warm in "The Old Days!" References: <199901151628.IAA16497@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi > I'd like > >to hear from those who remember the 20's-40's and hear how > >they dealt with the chill! Why just the 40's? I went to high school in the 60's and girls could not wear pants to school unless it was actually snowing or the temp. dropped below 32. You could wear dancer's tights if you could find them. One "new" girl wore ski pants to church (it was *freezing*) and everyone was scandalized! I wore knee socks and pettipants and/or one of those long panty girdles that were discussed. I didn't have much "jiggle" in those days, but the girdle was warm! (this was N.E. California, if anyone thinks it doesn't snow here. A horrible little hick town, but in my senior year I got to move to Santa Cruz: no snow. beaches. surfers. Heaven. but girls still got sent home for wearing culottes or granny dresses. ) Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 12:25:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20175 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:25:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA14335; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:39:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA29051 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:33:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA29032 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:33:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port035.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.35]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id SAA03654 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:33:42 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3695E532.FEA86661@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 12:00:08 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Your websites X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef Hello! I believe that many of you have got own websites that deal with our favorite topic historical costuming! If that`s the case, I`d be glad to get the adresses of them as I`m always looking for good ones with new information. At the moment I`m not looking for a special period, so name them all, thanks! And the idea of an own website for this mailing list is also a great idea, of course! When it is being realized, I`d love to give some pics as well. Many greetings, Diana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 12:37:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20242 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:37:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA16046; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:51:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA02406 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:45:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from hummer.tci.net (hummer.TCI.NET [209.19.4.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA02356 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:45:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303-a (c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.4.53.172]) by hummer.tci.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id C6F4DZ0Q; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:44:18 -0700 Message-ID: <009901be40af$f82855c0$ac350418@c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Your websites Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:51:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" Gloves: http://www.io.com/~ches/gloves.html Links: http://www.io.com/~ches/links.html Illuminations: http://www.io.com/~ches/illuminations/ Sincerely, Ches aka Chiara Francesca Steward of Coronation XL http://www.io.com/~ches/coronation99 -----Original Message----- From: Andrea Clef To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 11:28 AM Subject: H-COST: Your websites : :-Poster: Andrea Clef : :Hello! : :I believe that many of you have got own websites that deal with our :favorite topic :historical costuming! :If that`s the case, I`d be glad to get the adresses of them as I`m :always looking for :good ones with new information. :At the moment I`m not looking for a special period, so name them all, :thanks! : :And the idea of an own website for this mailing list is also a great :idea, of course! :When it is being realized, I`d love to give some pics as well. : :Many greetings, :Diana : : _________________________________________________________________ : To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com : with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME : _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 12:42:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20275 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:42:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA16910; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:56:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA00867 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:41:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (artemis.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA00711 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:40:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc (ppp41.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.161]) by artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA08894 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:42:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003501be40ae$a50afb00$a1a06480@dsc> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #46 Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:19:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >Any sheep that is not pure white is a "black sheep". And the colors range >from grays and light browns to brown-black to reddish-browns. All these >colors are natural and could have been found in medieval sheep. Of course, >the white wool takes dyes much more clearly than naturally-colored wool, so >it was more valuable. The "black" wools, of whatever shade, could well have >been given to the poor. In fact, it's thought that this is how the Dominican Order got their black-coloured garments (most of their habit was white, but the black hood which draped over the shoulders gave them the name of Black Friars). Being a mendicant Order, they were dependent on alms for everything, including clothing. I'd be curious to know whether the Benedictines, who wore all black, did this as well or whether they actually used a dye of some kind. Susan Carroll-Clark _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 14:26:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20869 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:26:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA00437; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:40:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA22780 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:34:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from hil-img-4.compuserve.com (hil-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.177.134]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA22758 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:33:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by hil-img-4.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id OAA03545 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:33:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:33:13 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: WW II Help Kids clothing To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901151433_MC2-66CF-D24D@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id OAA20869 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson Has anyone any pictures of Children in Britain in World War 2 they could scan and send me for my daughters school project ? Also any kids games & special memories of food ? Thanks Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 14:49:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20974 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:49:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA03321; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:03:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA26635 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:57:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from dias.net (dias.net [199.170.176.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA26617 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:57:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ophelia@localhost) by dias.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA19440 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:06:14 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ophelia@dias.net) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:06:12 -0600 (CST) From: "Sara J. Davitt" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Keeping Legs Warm in "The Old Days!" In-Reply-To: <369F7904.16DE@netwiz.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Sara J. Davitt" > > I'd like > > >to hear from those who remember the 20's-40's and hear how > > >they dealt with the chill! > > Why just the 40's? I went to high school in the 60's and girls > could not wear pants to school unless it was actually snowing > or the temp. dropped below 32. You could wear dancer's tights Why just the 60's??? I went to gradeschool in the 80's!.. and It wasn't until 1987 or so that the schoolboard passed a allowance for girls to wear pants. The thing that annoyed us girls the most was that they would not allow us to huddle together in little groups, or be anywhere within 5 feet from the building, and it's warmer nooks, and cranies. That was the rule. and All we could wear was our little plaid catholic girl uniforms. They used to have some old ones for sale that you could buy from the school, and those were really nice wool with little secret pockets to put your hands... But since the Polyester revolution... alas, they are no more. I really loved that skirt. *sigh* But we had to wear those big thick cabled tights (the kind that they don't make for women) and Moonboots. We also huddled around and wrapped our scarves around our legs in a spiral mummy type of things. Then there was slways the standard girlie bouncing and gigglgin to keep us distracted. Cheers, Sarahj _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 15:24:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA21158 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:24:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA07987; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:38:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA02593 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:32:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA02582 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:32:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from slave (BayArea56k498.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.98]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id MAA32532 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:32:22 -0800 Message-ID: <369FA4D3.352F@netwiz.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:28:03 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic References: <199901141553.IAA17426@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi Some time ago there was a thread about what Russian women settlers at Fort Ross (Calif.) might have worn. I wasn't interested at the time, but my boss's wife and daughter want to "dress up" to go to some event there and he's asked if I could find any info. on it. I lent him my Tilke book (explaining how much it would cost to replace it!) But if anyone has any info. specific to Fort Ross, I'd sure appreciate it. (I wallowed around in the archives, but couldn't find what I wanted, sorry) BTW, that Tilke book, Patterns and costume of design(?) 1990 ed. is one of my top 5 ethnic/Asian costuming books. the others would be the Topkapi Textiles book (which I got for what I consider a perfectly reasonable price) The Mongol Costumes, and the 5000 years of Chinese costume (all previously mentioned in this thread) No. 5 would probably be Wada's Shibori book, or one of the other umpteen Japanese costume/textile books. Another good book, which I don't own, is by Jennifer Scarce; Women's costume from the Near East (something like that) It's mostly Turkish and she includes diagrams of real garments. I photocopied a *lot* of it. Haven't seen anything good on Moghul costumes. has anyone else?? Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 17:06:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21762 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:06:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA22778; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:19:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA21795 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:13:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA21784 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:12:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p38.directcon.net [206.170.184.87]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA12776 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:08:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:08:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901152208.OAA12776@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Keeping Legs Warm in "The Old Days!" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 09:21 AM 1/15/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Susan Fatemi > >(this was N.E. California, if anyone thinks it doesn't snow >here. A horrible little hick town, Really? Me too! What town was it? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 17:07:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21773 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:07:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA22942; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:20:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA21985 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA21969 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:13:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from sue.computercrafters.com (pm3frd1-68-79.intrepid.net [206.102.68.79]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA14201 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:13:55 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990115172416.0082d100@intrepid.net> X-Sender: sshatto@intrepid.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:24:16 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sue Shatto Subject: Re: H-COST: Your websites In-Reply-To: <3695E532.FEA86661@ndh.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sue Shatto Diana, Yes, I'm sure many of us do have web sites we could share with the group. I hope you will look up my site. I specialize in Civil War head wear, but have a very large and searchable vintage clothing section. Cordially, Sue Shatto Sue@VictorianMillinery.com http://www.VictorianMillinery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 17:37:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21952 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:37:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA26466; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:50:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA26796 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:44:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA26774 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:44:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101Hoh-00005r-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:34:11 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA09574 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:01:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA17898; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:01:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA20108 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:55:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA20090 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:55:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-69.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.69]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA26861 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:55:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990114173301.00924970@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:33:01 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: H-COST: On the subject of children & puzzles In-Reply-To: <006201be3f5a$b63cd880$6d63b5cf@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, Isn't the outfit on Giovanni de Medici strange for a child? You can see leg! http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/b/bronzino/portrait/g_medici.jpg Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 17:37:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21956 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:37:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA26390; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA26669 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:43:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA26654 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:43:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101Hnw-0007ik-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:33:24 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA09494 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:00:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA17885; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:01:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA20106 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:55:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA20089 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:55:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-69.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.69]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA26852 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:55:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990114172449.00924a10@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:24:49 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting In-Reply-To: <006201be3f5a$b63cd880$6d63b5cf@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Here's another link: (the one Teddy provided doesn't work from my server) >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/mabuse/baudouin.jpg I had the same problem. >>Is this man wearing another, long sleeved, garment *under* that >>beautiful shirt, the only part visible being the picadils/tabs at >>the wrist?? Nope, I think they are gloves. If you look at the left side of his index finger on his right hand I see a faint line which *could* be a seam. I also think that the wrinkles shown are in the wrong place for a bare hand. >The picadilled cuffs look very leathery, especially when you consider >the width between snips, there's no evident fraying, and the colour - a >sort of light rose-orange - is also suggestive. I would have to agree with this as well. Also the Spanish were known for making incredibly fine leather gloves. There are records of a Spanish noble woman (can't remember who) who bought her gloves a gross at a time! This suggests to me that they were so fine that they would wear out quickly - these gloves seem to me, to be of that sort. >Or is it possible that this fabric has been sewn on beneath as a guard to >protect the delicately pleated cuffs? Well I've never seen any evidence for something like that. I don't understand what the guards would be sewn to? >He's wearing three garments for certain - the creamy brocade robe, the >slashed black doublet, the very full and decorated shirt. Is it possible >that he is also wearing a leather underdoublet and perhaps an undershirt >beneath that, for comfort? In my understanding of 16th century layering is: he *could* have worn another shirt under that one but not a doublet or jerkin. Isn't his outfit just gorgeous though! I think it's interesting that his sleeves, doublet/jerkin, and hosen are all a very dark blue or a very blue black. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 17:41:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21980 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:41:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA26860; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:53:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA27300 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:47:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA27283 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:47:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101Hri-0000ma-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:37:18 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA10127 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:11:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA18715; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:14:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA21313 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (root@april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA21293 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA23354 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:02:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA14786 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:09:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:09:33 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990114172449.00924a10@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed -Poster: aleed > >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/mabuse/baudouin.jpg > > >>Is this man wearing another, long sleeved, garment *under* that > >>beautiful shirt, the only part visible being the picadils/tabs at > >>the wrist?? I, too, think they are gloves--the coloring is different than that of his face, and there are distinct wrinkles between his fingers. Another portrait of his which shows a man's hands (http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/mabuse/carondel.jpg) has the man's hands and face painted an identical color & texture, and lacks the wrinkles that baudouin.jpg has. This is one of those cases where a look at the original painting would be incredibly useful. Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 17:52:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA22033 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:52:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA28497; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:06:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA29448 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:00:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.rma.edu (root@smtp.rma.edu [207.0.141.48]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA29424 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:00:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from malruck (USR1-67.rmaonline.net [207.48.171.67]) by smtp.rma.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA00416; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:56:28 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be40d9$eb01d7c0$43ab30cf@malruck> From: "Joseph & Christine" To: "Historic Costume Mailing List" , "DC Costume Mailing List" Subject: H-COST: Commode Question Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:53:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Joseph & Christine" I have a question on the head dress commonly known as the "commode," "fontage" or "tower," ca. late 17th C. In James Laver's "Costume & Fashion" is the following statement: "Louis XIV had grown tired of it by 1699 and expressed his disapproval, but it was the appearance at Court of an Englishwoman, Lady Sandwich, 'avec une petite coiffure basse,' which really changed the mode." Later, "We find the Mercure Galant for November 1699 remarking that the old style of high coiffure was beginning to appear ridiculous." My question is, what is the "petite coiffure basse" worn by Lady Sandwich, and how appropriate is it really to appear the the high headdress that "was beginning to appear ridiculous" for the Williamsburg tercentenary? Thank you, Christine L. Malson-Ruckman _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 17:53:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA22040 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:53:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA28600; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:07:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA29555 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:00:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA29516 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:00:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101I4V-0003QI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:50:31 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by ferret.slip.net (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA16097 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:29:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA13403; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:31:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA27241 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:25:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA27220 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:25:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from slave (BayArea56k442.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.42]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id JAA06410 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:25:31 -0800 Message-ID: <369F7904.16DE@netwiz.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:21:08 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Keeping Legs Warm in "The Old Days!" References: <199901151628.IAA16497@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi -Poster: Susan Fatemi > I'd like > >to hear from those who remember the 20's-40's and hear how > >they dealt with the chill! Why just the 40's? I went to high school in the 60's and girls could not wear pants to school unless it was actually snowing or the temp. dropped below 32. You could wear dancer's tights if you could find them. One "new" girl wore ski pants to church (it was *freezing*) and everyone was scandalized! I wore knee socks and pettipants and/or one of those long panty girdles that were discussed. I didn't have much "jiggle" in those days, but the girdle was warm! (this was N.E. California, if anyone thinks it doesn't snow here. A horrible little hick town, but in my senior year I got to move to Santa Cruz: no snow. beaches. surfers. Heaven. but girls still got sent home for wearing culottes or granny dresses. ) Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 18:13:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22172 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:13:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA01661; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:27:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA02899 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:21:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA02880 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:21:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101IO8-0005El-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:10:48 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by ferret.slip.net (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA17046 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:37:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA14388; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:39:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA29051 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:33:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA29032 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:33:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port035.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.35]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id SAA03654 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:33:42 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3695E532.FEA86661@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 12:00:08 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Your websites X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef -Poster: Andrea Clef Hello! I believe that many of you have got own websites that deal with our favorite topic historical costuming! If that`s the case, I`d be glad to get the adresses of them as I`m always looking for good ones with new information. At the moment I`m not looking for a special period, so name them all, thanks! And the idea of an own website for this mailing list is also a great idea, of course! When it is being realized, I`d love to give some pics as well. Many greetings, Diana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 18:13:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22176 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:13:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA01740; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:27:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA02963 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:21:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhost.cyberramp.net (root@mailhost.cyberramp.net [207.158.64.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA02957 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:21:35 -0700 (MST) From: kang@cyberramp.net Received: from hemmert (ftw-tsa5-51.cyberramp.net [207.158.119.51]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-19990112-0936) with SMTP id RAA11361 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:21:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <369FCDBA.D66@cyberramp.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:22:34 -0600 Organization: L.D. Fox Military Antiques X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Commode Question References: <000101be40d9$eb01d7c0$43ab30cf@malruck> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kang@cyberramp.net Joseph & Christine wrote: > > -Poster: "Joseph & Christine" > > I have a question on the head dress commonly known as the "commode," > "fontage" or "tower," ca. late 17th C. > > In James Laver's "Costume & Fashion" is the following statement: > > "Louis XIV had grown tired of it by 1699 and expressed his disapproval, but > it was the appearance at Court of an Englishwoman, Lady Sandwich, 'avec une > petite coiffure basse,' which really changed the mode." > > Later, "We find the Mercure Galant for November 1699 remarking that the old > style of high coiffure was beginning to appear ridiculous." > > My question is, what is the "petite coiffure basse" worn by Lady Sandwich, > and how appropriate is it really to appear the the high headdress that "was > beginning to appear ridiculous" for the Williamsburg tercentenary? > > Thank you, > > Christine L. Malson-Ruckman > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME If someone dressed an infant in a "commode" headress, would that make it a commode-baby? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 18:27:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22263 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:27:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA03524; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:41:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA05128 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:35:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA05114 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:35:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101Ic5-0007DM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:25:13 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by ferret.slip.net (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA18402 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:47:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA16096; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:51:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA02406 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:45:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from hummer.tci.net (hummer.TCI.NET [209.19.4.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA02356 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:45:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303-a (c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.4.53.172]) by hummer.tci.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id C6F4DZ0Q; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:44:18 -0700 Message-ID: <009901be40af$f82855c0$ac350418@c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Your websites Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:51:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" Gloves: http://www.io.com/~ches/gloves.html Links: http://www.io.com/~ches/links.html Illuminations: http://www.io.com/~ches/illuminations/ Sincerely, Ches aka Chiara Francesca Steward of Coronation XL http://www.io.com/~ches/coronation99 -----Original Message----- From: Andrea Clef To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 11:28 AM Subject: H-COST: Your websites : :-Poster: Andrea Clef : :Hello! : :I believe that many of you have got own websites that deal with our :favorite topic :historical costuming! :If that`s the case, I`d be glad to get the adresses of them as I`m :always looking for :good ones with new information. :At the moment I`m not looking for a special period, so name them all, :thanks! : :And the idea of an own website for this mailing list is also a great :idea, of course! :When it is being realized, I`d love to give some pics as well. : :Many greetings, :Diana : : _________________________________________________________________ : To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com : with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME : _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 18:32:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22298 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:32:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA03914; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:46:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA06490 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:39:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA06411 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:39:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101IgA-00001r-00 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:29:26 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by ferret.slip.net (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19132 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:52:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA16979; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:56:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA00867 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:41:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (artemis.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA00711 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:40:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc (ppp41.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.161]) by artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA08894 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:42:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003501be40ae$a50afb00$a1a06480@dsc> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #46 Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:19:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >Any sheep that is not pure white is a "black sheep". And the colors range >from grays and light browns to brown-black to reddish-browns. All these >colors are natural and could have been found in medieval sheep. Of course, >the white wool takes dyes much more clearly than naturally-colored wool, so >it was more valuable. The "black" wools, of whatever shade, could well have >been given to the poor. In fact, it's thought that this is how the Dominican Order got their black-coloured garments (most of their habit was white, but the black hood which draped over the shoulders gave them the name of Black Friars). Being a mendicant Order, they were dependent on alms for everything, including clothing. I'd be curious to know whether the Benedictines, who wore all black, did this as well or whether they actually used a dye of some kind. Susan Carroll-Clark _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 18:37:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22351 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:37:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA04556; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:51:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA08186 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:45:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA08151 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:45:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101IlK-0000sQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:34:46 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13581 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:12:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA23818; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:14:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA28019 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:08:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA27985 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:08:16 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip233.van19.pacifier.com [216.65.141.233]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA25762 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151508.HAA25762@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:20 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Baa baa black sheep? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <2.2.16.19990114192924.085f31ca@mail2.quiknet.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > Any sheep that is not pure white is a "black sheep". And the colors range > from grays and light browns to brown-black to reddish-browns. All these > colors are natural and could have been found in medieval sheep. Of course, > the white wool takes dyes much more clearly than naturally-colored wool, so > it was more valuable. The "black" wools, of whatever shade, could well have > been given to the poor. >From what I understand, when you are trying to get a really white flock, the black sheep lambs became stew, sausage, lamb chops, etc. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 18:43:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22390 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:43:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA05449; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:57:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA09057 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:51:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA09041 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:50:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101Ir0-0001sj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:40:38 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13525 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:11:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA23801; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:14:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA28006 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:08:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA27995 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:08:17 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip233.van19.pacifier.com [216.65.141.233]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA29860 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151508.HAA29860@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:08:20 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Keeping Legs Warm in "The Old Days!" Priority: normal In-reply-to: <369E972E.466CCDC3@earthlink.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > The knitted tubes you described are what dancers call 'legwarmers', and > dancers still wear them; I wish they hadn't gone out of fashion, as they > were awfully handy. They're out of fashion!!!! Oh, no. I guess I'll have to stop wearing mine! Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 18:44:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22404 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:44:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA05674; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:58:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA09177 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:52:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA09169 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:52:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101Is6-00025D-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:41:46 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13717 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:14:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA24239; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:16:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA28364 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:10:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA28346 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:10:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip40.an7-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.18.40]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA24810 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:10:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369F4D1C.148F1F81@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:13:49 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Colours References: <4.1.19990114212056.00be8ef0@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson -Poster: Laurel Wilson Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > I own two dictionaries which list watchet, a Websters New International > Dictionary, Second Edition from 1950 and a Century Cyclopedia from 1906. > Both cite Old North French as the language of origin. The Websters thinks > the origin is obscure (duh), and the Century Cyclopedia thinks it > originally relates to the word 'woad', tho it gives no intermediate > derrivation. > The OED says much the same: definitely from Old French, possibly related to 'woad' but the derivation can't be established with certainty. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:03:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22521 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:03:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA08055; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:18:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA12577 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:11:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA12567 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:11:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101JBB-0004zx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:01:29 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA16555 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:50:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA28424; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:52:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA04558 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:46:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f262.hotmail.com [207.82.251.153]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id IAA04546 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:46:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 9967 invoked by uid 0); 15 Jan 1999 15:46:18 -0000 Message-ID: <19990115154618.9966.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 157.182.175.116 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:46:17 PST X-Originating-IP: [157.182.175.116] From: "karrissa david" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Just an Introduction Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:46:17 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "karrissa david" -Poster: "karrissa david" Hello All, My name is Karrissa David. I have been searching for this list serve for a while. I am glad I have found it. I have just started to study the history of clothing. I has intrigued me for a very long time now. I was introduced to a couple of organtizations which study rennaisance (sp?) history and fell in love. Now I am trying to get all of the information that I can. I am a secretary by day and a fashion designer by night. I wouldn't mind history repeating itself when it comes to fashion. I use many historical elements in my designs. I also have started recreating historical pieces for myself and would like to open a business doing such. I have found tons of patterns and books on sillouetts. However, I would love to get information on fabric used as well as popular colors. I hope to get lots of information. I look forward to hearing from you. Karrissa ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:07:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22549 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:07:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA08403; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:21:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA13072 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:15:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA13036 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:15:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101JEK-0005PX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:04:44 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA17154 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:57:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA29748; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:00:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA06191 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:54:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA06183 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:54:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from 168.191.22.96 (sdn-ar-002dcwashP318.dialsprint.net [168.191.22.96]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA13960 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:54:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369F222A.15AE255C@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:10:47 +0000 From: margo king X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Help! with Victorian X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <4.1.19990114212056.00be8ef0@pop.slip.net> <369F4D1C.148F1F81@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: margo king -Poster: margo king Dear List - I need some help! The Theme of The 45th Washington Antiques Show (Jan6-9, 2000) is "Behind Closed Doors: Victorian Secrets". In both our eductional catalogue, loan exhibition, and Symposium we want to take a look at things that were not what they appeared to be - for example - all the corsetry that produced a great figure but caused all those problems. This look at things will extend into other areas - fantastic silver that upon looking at it you can't imaginewhat it is - "slice of real life". Does anyone have a reference for early Victorian ladies putting bits of material on back side of buttons impregnated with their 'perfume or scent' - as a remider of them when their men went to war, away, etc? Jewelry that was not what it appeared to be? Any Victorian refences, sources that are accurate (any subject area) would be wonderful.We are also looking for writers for catalogue/speakers for Symposium - thoughts, ideas are welcome. We are also thinking of doing a costume ball on Saturday, Jan 8, 2000. It would have to be more expensive than most period dances, sincewe are a charity show - but I think we have the population to draw from - Washington, DC metropolitan area. Talk to me please!!! Margo King, Show Chair 2000 - email directly (mkings@earthlink.net), through the list if you think info would be of general interest, or call 301-983-8835. THANKS! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:08:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22556 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:08:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA08637; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:23:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA13273 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:16:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA13244 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:16:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101JFm-0005en-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:06:14 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA17697 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:04:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA00907; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:06:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA07498 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:01:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from epicurus.miningco.com (epicurus.miningco.com [207.122.100.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id JAA07479 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:00:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from s244158.microweb.net [208.201.244.158] (HELO lisa) by epicurus.miningco.com (AltaVista Mail V2.0/2.0 BL23 listener) id 0000_0143_369f_75b3_cd2a; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:06:59 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990115075101.0097d880@mail.tmsonline.com> X-Sender: reenactment@mail.miningco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 07:59:58 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lisa Scovel Subject: Re: H-COST: Just an Introduction In-Reply-To: <19990115154618.9966.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lisa Scovel -Poster: Lisa Scovel The people on this list are just wonderful for answering this sort of question, but you may also want to check out some of the available resources on the Web and see if you find the stuff you're looking for. I have a whole list of Renaissance Era links that includes some color and fabric inormation. http://reenactment.miningco.com/msub21.htm For the specific kind of information you're looking for, the Elizabethan Costuming Page (maintained by one of our very own list members) would be a great place to start. http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/general.html Also try some general costuming sites like: http://users.aol.com/nebula5/costume.html The history section includes several early Renaissance links, in addition to the Tudor and Elizabethan. http://users.aol.com/nebula5/tcpinfo2.html#history If you're more interested in early At 10:46 AM 1/15/99 -0500, you wrote: >I have found tons of patterns and books on sillouetts. However, I would >love to get information on fabric used as well as popular colors. > *********************** lisa scovel historical reenactment guide the mining co. http://reenactment.miningco.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:08:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22560 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:08:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA08646; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:23:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA13277 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:16:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA13259 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:16:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101JFn-0005f6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:06:16 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA17711 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:04:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA00791; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:06:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA07448 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:00:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA07441 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:00:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (2Cust39.tnt3.sfo3.da.uu.net [153.37.10.39]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28461 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:00:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369F66F2.BBF057A1@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:04:02 -0800 From: Christina Conklin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: ethnic costume -- eliz References: <199901141900.MAA01480@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christina Conklin -Poster: Christina Conklin > eliz . . . When youdo, could you please let me/us know where to find it online? > Many thanks, Christy > I have made and worn 16th C Mughal garb at SCA events and at Pennsic. > I've also made and worn SCA period Turkish, Russian, and Ukranian. > Those are my main areas of interest, and I have an extensive library. > Unfortunately, I have to update the online copy of my bibliography. > I'll try to make that available again in a couple of days. > > ...eliz > _________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:11:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22581 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:11:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA09124; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:25:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA13721 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:18:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA13714 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:18:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101JI1-00062Z-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:08:33 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA18336 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:13:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA02277; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:16:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA09342 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:10:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA09327 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:10:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA18659 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:10:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369F6883.FA6B6ADD@serv.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:10:43 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True -Poster: Merouda the True Probably isn't worth much, but I *totally* disagree. There is no way I could agree that he is wearing gloves. :) Doesn't mean I can explain the picked cuffs, however. :} Cynthia -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:17:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22611 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:17:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA09873; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:31:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA14529 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:25:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA14521 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:25:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101JOS-0006vn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:15:12 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA19452 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:28:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA04054; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:30:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA12164 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:24:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA12119 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:24:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.60]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA14560 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:20:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:20:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151620.IAA14560@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson -Poster: Margo Anderson At 11:30 AM 1/14/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > >>Dear Katya, >>Your baby walker outfit sounds so cool! Any way to see pictures? > >There aren't any. How many of us are guilty of this? I know I am, I've made dozens of costumes that never got photographed because I was waiting till I got around to getting then potographed in a proper setting, by a good photographer, etc. One of my New Year's resolutions is to keep a camera in my studio and never let anything out the door without a photo. It might not look pretty, but at least I'll have some kind of record. I saw that baby walker/farthingale, and it was awesome. A tiny elizabethan lady, scooting across the hall as she were on wheels..Oh! she is! Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:25:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22655 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:25:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA10605; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:38:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA15508 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:31:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA15497 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:31:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101JUe-0007Vx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:21:36 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA20082 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:36:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA05169; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:38:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA13844 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:32:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA13805 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:32:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.60]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA16497 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:28:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:28:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151628.IAA16497@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Keeping Legs Warm in "The Old Days!" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson -Poster: Margo Anderson I'd like >to hear from those who remember the 20's-40's and hear how >they dealt with the chill! I have pictures of my father's sister in the 30's, in Brooklyn, all dressed up in wool coats with matching leggings. These were made of the same cloth as the coat, fitted to the leg, and came down over the shoe top and up higher than the coat hem. They buttoned up the sides, which must have been a tedious chore. These outfits were made for my aunt by her grandfather, a tailor, but I think it was the standard style for little girls. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:28:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22668 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:28:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA10967; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA15949 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:35:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA15935 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:35:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101JY9-0000FN-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:25:13 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA20805 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:46:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA06641; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:48:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA16291 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:42:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA16272 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:42:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.60]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA18752 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:38:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:38:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151638.IAA18752@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Other new list: what was it again? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson -Poster: Margo Anderson At 04:52 PM 1/14/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Danielle Nunn > >Greetings, > >>Last week or so, one of the 'regulars' posted information on a new list for >>historical women's issues - could you repost please-or send to me off-list? >>Thanks in advance. > >When was this posted? I really don't think I'm getting every message. :( I sent it on the 1st. I seem to have missed a few messages, too. Anybody know what could be going on? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:29:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22675 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:29:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA11061; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:42:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA16015 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:36:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA15993 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:36:00 -0700 (MST) From: Morghana@aol.com Received: from Morghana@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id DHFEa05309 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:34:41 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <7ca7cf31.369fdea1@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:34:41 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #50 (why all the duplicate posts????) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Morghana@aol.com Anyone else seeing this? Tons of duplicates! Can the list admin take a look, please? ~Morghana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:29:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22679 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:29:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA11173; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:42:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA16084 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:36:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA16071 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:36:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101JYu-0000NO-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:26:00 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA21031 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:49:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA06399; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:47:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA15765 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:40:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA15733 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:40:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.60]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA18336 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:36:20 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:36:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901151636.IAA18336@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Vermont Country Store Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson -Poster: Margo Anderson >hair), large plastic 'tortoiseshell' hairpins, I just have to tell everyone: after years of searching for these hairpins in obscure outlets and paying big bucks for them, I've now found them at K-Mart! 2 for $2, with all the other hair stuff, packaged under the "Cosmopolitan" brand name. the same line includes hair sticks, combs, and other doodads, all in a good looking imitation tortoiseshell. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:34:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22709 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:34:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA11788; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:47:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA16687 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:41:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA16670 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:41:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101Jdl-00016t-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:31:01 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA22343 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:06:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA10056; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:10:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA23129 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:04:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA23050 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:03:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA16517 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:55:31 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:55:30 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: h-costume-digest V4 #35 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990114213624.00be7e30@pop.slip.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > Dylon dye. It is as easy to use as that dye-emulater Rit, but it is real dye. > > >I am making a new 16th century upper-middle class outfit for faire this > >year. I have found a brought a brocade that is white and I want to dye it > >burgandy... It is 100% cotton and takes dye well (I tried a swatch before I > >bought it) My one concern is that, with the intensity of the sun baking me > >all day it will most likely fade quickly with RIT. Is there any way to keep > >this from happening? Is there a finish I can put on to keep it from fading? > >Is there a better kind of dye than RIT that I can use that won't fade so > >easily? Anyone have any tips? Rit is real dye, of course, or it wouldnt dye fabric. The problem with Rit is that it has all different types of dye so that at least one of them will bind with whatever fabric you are using This means that the rest of it just washes down the drain, which I now realize is pretty wasteful. I used to run a theatrical costume shop and we bought Rit by the gallon. Now that I know more about dyeing, I would never do that. It's much more cost effective to buy smaller amounts of specific kinds of dyes. Sylvia. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:37:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22730 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:37:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA12112; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:50:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA16997 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:43:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA16972 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:43:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101Jg1-0001Ud-00 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:33:21 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23065 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:13:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA11238; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:17:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA24445 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA24384 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:10:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.23] (ell82.acadia.net [205.217.218.66]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA20416 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:10:37 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:10:40 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: gloves in paintings Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Yes, and keep in mind that whatever seams in the gloves might have been painted in may also have been faded/removed entirely by cleaning the painting in recent years. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:38:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22737 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:38:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA12225; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:50:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA17079 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:44:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA17067 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:44:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101Jgg-0001aV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:34:02 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23234 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:15:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA03841; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:29:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA11924 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:23:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA11898 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:23:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from 168.191.22.96 (sdn-ar-002dcwashP318.dialsprint.net [168.191.22.96]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28905 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:23:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <369F28FA.D8BC0DD8@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:40:01 +0000 From: margo king X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Textile Museum X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199901141900.MAA01480@indra.com> <369F66F2.BBF057A1@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: margo king -Poster: margo king Textile Museum - 2320 S Street, Washington, DC 20008 - (202-667-0441) - Founded in 1925 with the collection of George Hewitt-Myers, museum houses over 10,000 woven pieces of artistic and archaeological significance - museum is small, they can only display a fraction of their treasures. World's finest collecion of Peruin weavings. Library divided into fine arts, decorative arts, techniques, costumes, and textile processes (all organized by nationality!) Library open to public, gift shop has wide variety of books on textile work. They also have a newsletter. I have found the staff very good to work with, and helpful! Hopes this helps those that were wondering about the museum - a must see if you are visitingWashington. Margo King _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:38:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22741 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:38:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA12418; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:51:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA17244 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:45:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA17203 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:45:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101JhP-0001hs-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:34:47 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23490 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:17:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA12072; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:21:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA21645 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:58:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA21618 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:58:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port1067.koeln.ndh.net [195.227.37.67]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id RAA28973 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:58:34 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3695DCEC.38A00EC3@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 11:24:53 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: book publication X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------56007D64D6AF7893DA2613F7" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef -Poster: Andrea Clef --------------56007D64D6AF7893DA2613F7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Are the patterns taken from extant garments, or are they the author's own > guesses? > > I would consider ordering the book if the patterns are from real garments. > > --Robin > Surviving garments of this medieval period are very rare, it is said in the book that they reconstructed the stitches from these but it is not mentioned whether they also copied the patterns from real garments. The most used method of medieval pattern reconstruction is looking at stone figures or paintings that have survived. So I can`t say for sure where the patterns originate from. > The bad news is that they don't have this book > Ok, so if somebody would like to get this book, please tell me. But I`m not sure about the shipping costs to the States yet, that also depends on if you choose surface or air mail. You could then send me the money ($26 + shipping) either in dollar notes in a letter (ok, could be risky) or wire it to my bank account. I`ve made bad experiences with checks, so that`s not the best method. If you`re interested, please contact me by personal e-mail, thanks! Many greetings, Diana --------------56007D64D6AF7893DA2613F7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 

Are the patterns taken from extant garments, or are they the author's own
guesses?

I would consider ordering the book if the patterns are from real garments. 

--Robin
Surviving garments of this medieval period are very rare, it is said in the book that they
reconstructed the stitches from these but it is not mentioned whether they also
copied the patterns from real garments.
The most used method of medieval pattern reconstruction is looking at stone figures
or paintings that have survived.
So I can`t say for sure where the patterns originate from.
  
The bad news is that they don't have this book
Ok, so if somebody would like to get this book, please tell me.
But I`m not sure about the shipping costs to the States yet, that also depends on
if you choose surface or air mail.
You could then send me the money ($26 + shipping) either in dollar notes in a letter
(ok, could be risky) or wire it to my bank account.
I`ve made bad experiences with checks, so that`s not the best method.
If you`re interested, please contact me by personal e-mail, thanks!

Many greetings,
Diana
  --------------56007D64D6AF7893DA2613F7-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:39:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22752 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:39:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA12588; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:52:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA17363 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:46:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from gerbil.slip.net (gerbil.slip.net [207.171.193.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA17349 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:46:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from root by gerbil.slip.net with local (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101JiW-0001tG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:35:56 -0800 Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by falcon.net. (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA23781 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:20:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA12524; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:24:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA25934 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:18:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (root@bigpapa.nothinbut.net [207.44.32.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA25925 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:18:32 -0700 (MST) From: pame@nothinbut.net Received: from bigpapa.nothinbut.net (mtl-ct1-06.nothinbut.net [207.44.46.16]) by bigpapa.nothinbut.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA13200 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:18:31 -0500 Message-Id: <199901151718.MAA13200@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:16:10 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Skeletons and stays Priority: normal References: <199901111101.GAA24064@bigpapa.nothinbut.net> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pame@nothinbut.net -Poster: pame@nothinbut.net > -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > > > For the record: How old is she now? > My oldest daughter is fifteen. She is 6 ft. tall and weighs around 119 lbs. Will she thicken up as she ages-my guess would be yes.. pame _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 19:52:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22831 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:52:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA14046; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:06:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA19468 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:00:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailserver1.picknowl.com.au (mailserver1.picknowl.com.au [203.24.77.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id SAA19442 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:00:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialin160.picknowl.com.au (dialin160.picknowl.com.au [203.24.76.160]) by mailserver1.picknowl.com.au (NTMail 3.03.0018/4c.aclk) with ESMTP id ma802476 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:29:07 +1030 Message-Id: <3.0.5.16.19990116113018.29bf490a@mail.picknowl.com.au> X-Sender: starkiller@mail.picknowl.com.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (16) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:30:18 To: h-Costume@indra.com From: Lady Lisette Subject: H-COST: More on black dyes in period Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lady Lisette Just to add another element to the discussion of black sheep and black dyed clothing in period, here are two quotes from the book "Accounts from a 13th Century Baronial Household" by Margaret Labarge. The book is a collection of all the accounts of the lady of an English household and is a fascinating collection of various household goods and items. If you're interested I can dig out the publisher and date. Quote 1, page 133 "Ten ells of black serge for only 17s were bought for Richard De Montforte before his departure for Bigorre-this quantity was sufficient for a robe and also trappings for his horse." Quote 2, page 144 "The articles (of the GUild of Cappers, March 1270) warned against the common fraud of dyeing an old cap black and reselling it, as new. This particular sharp practise was oon detected as the colour ran in the rain." Just to add to the discussion! Yours Lydie. ___________________________________ Sharpei carpe diem. (Seize the wrinkle dog now!) http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/5459/cover.htm (Cover page to all my pages, including all my historical costume ones, of which there are several!) starkiller@picknowl.com.au _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 20:12:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA22933 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:12:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA16081; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:26:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA21717 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:20:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from centum.utulsa.edu (centum.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.199]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id SAA21695 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:20:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by centum.utulsa.edu for H-COSTUME@INDRA.COM; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:22:14 -0600 Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:22:14 -0600 From: "I. Marc Carlson" To: H-COSTUME@indra.com Message-Id: <990115192214.74072@centum.utulsa.edu> Subject: H-COST: Re: H-Cost: Your websites Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" > >I believe that many of you have got own websites that deal with our >favorite topic historical costuming!... http://www.geocities.com/athens/parthenon/5923 http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/carlson/SHOEHOME.HTM Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 20:42:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA23112 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:42:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA19396; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:57:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA24820 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:50:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA24815 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:50:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from clough (207-172-56-110.s110.tnt12.ann.erols.com [207.172.56.110]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA15862 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:50:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:50:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901160150.UAA15862@smtp1.erols.com> X-Sender: clough@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda and Larry Clough Subject: H-COST: Plumes Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough For this Musketeer stunt, I'm going to buy quite a few ostrich plumes. Now, the question: How do I curl a feather? Brenda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 20:49:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA23145 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:49:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA20609; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:03:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA25495 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:57:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA25490 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:57:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from sue.computercrafters.com (pm3frd1-68-73.intrepid.net [206.102.68.73]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA19658 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:57:16 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990115210732.008a24e0@intrepid.net> X-Sender: sshatto@intrepid.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 21:07:32 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sue Shatto Subject: Re: H-COST: Plumes In-Reply-To: <199901160150.UAA15862@smtp1.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sue Shatto Brenda, Just take the feather between your thumb and a butter knife and pull through just as if you were curling ribbon. At 08:50 PM 1/15/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough > >For this Musketeer stunt, I'm going to buy quite a few ostrich plumes. Now, >the question: How do I curl a feather? > >Brenda > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > Cordially, Sue Shatto Sue@VictorianMillinery.com http://www.VictorianMillinery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 15 22:28:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA23709 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:28:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA29913; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:43:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA03774 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:36:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA03763 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:36:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from slave (BayArea56k432.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.32]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id TAA09866 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:36:43 -0800 Message-ID: <36A00852.68CC@netwiz.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:32:34 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: small town in Calif. References: <199901152208.OAA12776@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi Margo Anderson wrote: > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > At 09:21 AM 1/15/99 -0800, you wrote: > > > >-Poster: Susan Fatemi > > > > >(this was N.E. California, if anyone thinks it doesn't snow > >here. A horrible little hick town, > > Really? Me too! What town was it? > > Margo > Susanville. County seat of Lassen Co. 85 miles NW of Reno. Backdoor of hell. It's been over 30 years since I was there and I still hate it! Susan -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 00:26:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA24951 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 00:26:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA10808; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:41:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA13336 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:34:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA13321 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:34:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p29.directcon.net [206.170.184.78]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA08155 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 21:30:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 21:30:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901160530.VAA08155@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: small town in Calif. Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >> >(this was N.E. California, if anyone thinks it doesn't snow >> >here. A horrible little hick town, >> >> Really? Me too! What town was it? >> >> Margo >> >Susanville Ooh, I've been to Susanville. You're right, it makes my hick home town (Placerville) look cosmopolitan. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 01:17:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25464 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 01:17:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA14015; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:31:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA16770 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:24:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (mg134-121.ricochet.net [204.179.134.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA16764 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:24:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from ricochet.net (athene.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.14]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA12170 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:28:20 -0800 Message-ID: <36A0319F.D2A380B3@ricochet.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:30:07 -0800 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: More on black dyes in period References: <3.0.5.16.19990116113018.29bf490a@mail.picknowl.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Yes, please tell us more about this household account book! I need to start finding copies of this sort of thing, for more edification. > Sharpei carpe diem. > (Seize the wrinkle dog now!) Oh, my, yes! cv =-=-=-=-= "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 09:24:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00979 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:24:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA02244; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:39:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA09246 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:32:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA09239 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:32:18 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id IETBa04794 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:31:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4aea8924.36a0a2c2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:31:30 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: re:undergarments Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com You can mail order silk underwear, both men's and women's, from Wintersilks, 2700 Laura Lane, P.O. Box 620130, Middleton, W! 53562. Phone number: 1-800-648-7455. Customer service phone number: 1-800-621-3229, 7 AM-7PM, Central Standard Time, Mon-Sat, 11AM-5PM, CST Sunday. Major Credit cards accepted. They also carry outer clothings too. I swear by their sock liners and glove liners. Standard disclaimer, but a satisfied customer. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 09:26:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00997 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:26:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA02397; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:42:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA09363 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:34:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA09358 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:34:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.254 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 06:34:17 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Medieval Source Mentions Black Wool Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:37:20 -0500 Message-ID: <000401be415d$e9d0ece0$fe17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19990114192924.085f31ca@mail2.quiknet.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" In the year 1186, Giraldus of Cambridge, a scholar-monk, wrote about the Irish in *Topographica Hibernica,* "They wear their woolen clothes mostly black, because the sheep in Ireland are in general of that colour; the dress itself is of a barbarous fashion . . . ." This quoted in the Countess of Wilton's *The Book of Costume* in 1846, annotated and republished by R. L. Shep, ISBN 0-914046-04-7. This book is a wonderful source, by the way, of many historic things, including European and Asian folk costume. I find her to be an excellent scholar, with fabulous access to period accounts, and a good ability to discern between popular conception and what actually was. Her work has the benefit of being 150 years closer to her time periods on than modern authors, so much of the understanding of things was not yet lost. On the other hand, she mentions underclothes not at all, as one might expect of a Lady. . . From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 09:51:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01139 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:51:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA03717; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 08:07:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA10714 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:59:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA10709 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:59:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.116 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 06:59:21 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Commode Question Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 10:01:14 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be4161$6862ef60$7417ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000101be40d9$eb01d7c0$43ab30cf@malruck> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" The high commode went out of fashion abruptly somewhere between 1711 and 1713, sorry I can't remember more exactly. What is the Williamsburg Tercentenary? Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Joseph & Christine Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 5:53 PM To: Historic Costume Mailing List; DC Costume Mailing List Subject: H-COST: Commode Question -Poster: "Joseph & Christine" I have a question on the head dress commonly known as the "commode," "fontage" or "tower," ca. late 17th C. In James Laver's "Costume & Fashion" is the following statement: "Louis XIV had grown tired of it by 1699 and expressed his disapproval, but it was the appearance at Court of an Englishwoman, Lady Sandwich, 'avec une petite coiffure basse,' which really changed the mode." Later, "We find the Mercure Galant for November 1699 remarking that the old style of high coiffure was beginning to appear ridiculous." My question is, what is the "petite coiffure basse" worn by Lady Sandwich, and how appropriate is it really to appear the the high headdress that "was beginning to appear ridiculous" for the Williamsburg tercentenary? Thank you, Christine L. Malson-Ruckman ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 10:28:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01325 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 10:28:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA06567; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 08:44:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA13271 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 08:36:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA13266 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 08:36:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.39 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:36:14 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 10:38:28 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be4166$925a1780$7417ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <369FA4D3.352F@netwiz.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Susan, do you know where the Russian immigrants to California originated from? That would help. The R.L. Shep republication by the Countess of Wilton, The Book of Costume, originally published in 1846 has a whole chapter on Russian costume of the period, but as it was diverse and multi-ethnic, she includes Russian, Mordvine,Kalmuk Tartar, Woltiak, Kamtschatkian, Kasan, Tscherask, Muscovite (no picture, just a description), and a number of others. Let me know if there's something specific you need me to look up. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Susan Fatemi Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 3:28 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic -Poster: Susan Fatemi Some time ago there was a thread about what Russian women settlers at Fort Ross (Calif.) might have worn. I wasn't interested at the time, but my boss's wife and daughter want to "dress up" to go to some event there and he's asked if I could find any info. on it. I lent him my Tilke book (explaining how much it would cost to replace it!) But if anyone has any info. specific to Fort Ross, I'd sure appreciate it. (I wallowed around in the archives, but couldn't find what I wanted, sorry) BTW, that Tilke book, Patterns and costume of design(?) 1990 ed. is one of my top 5 ethnic/Asian costuming books. the others would be the Topkapi Textiles book (which I got for what I consider a perfectly reasonable price) The Mongol Costumes, and the 5000 years of Chinese costume (all previously mentioned in this thread) No. 5 would probably be Wada's Shibori book, or one of the other umpteen Japanese costume/textile books. Another good book, which I don't own, is by Jennifer Scarce; Women's costume from the Near East (something like that) It's mostly Turkish and she includes diagrams of real garments. I photocopied a *lot* of it. Haven't seen anything good on Moghul costumes. has anyone else?? Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 10:44:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01420 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 10:44:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA07791; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:00:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA14547 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 08:52:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA14539 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 08:52:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip222.an1-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.12.222]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA03566 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:52:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A0A868.1EBB130F@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 10:55:37 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: More on black dyes in period References: <3.0.5.16.19990116113018.29bf490a@mail.picknowl.com.au> <36A0319F.D2A380B3@ricochet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson > -Poster: Cynthia Virtue > > Yes, please tell us more about this household account book! Ditto. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 10:54:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01476 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 10:54:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA08700; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:09:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA15235 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:02:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA15230 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:02:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.106 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 08:01:55 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: re:undergarments Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:04:56 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be416a$28d2e040$7417ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990114214048.00be4400@pop.slip.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" The nylon net on mine was always attached to a smooth, soft-to-the-skin nylon taffeta base, so I never had any discomfort from my frothy petticoats. We disn't have a lot of clothes in those days, but my mother was a real stickler for comfort and quality. To afford taste like that, everything she didn't make for us, she bought "on sale." These petticoats came from the local high-end children's specialty shop during their twice yearly sale. I agree, unlined nylon net would be a torture! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 12:42 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: re:undergarments -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >When I was in elementary school in the 1950's I wouldn't be >caught dead without my frothy nylon tafetta and lace slip >petticoats to make my skirts stand out. It was a great >pleasure to buy two more each year and to wear them, as they >were in and of themselves so pretty and not the least bit of >trouble. Nasty things to sit on. I remember these, and nylon net marks on my legs. Itchy scratchy and no fun. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 13:06:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02289 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:06:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA19573; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:21:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA26160 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:13:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA26154 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:13:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.27 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 10:12:59 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:16:03 -0500 Message-ID: <000401be417c$77f13840$7417ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990114172449.00924a10@mail.interlog.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" The cuff detail often appears on a man's jacket (sleeved waistcoat) or a woman's dress, such as in these Italian paintings. Could it be that his white blousey shirt is decorative (not a smock), and that he is wearing a waistcoat (and presumably a hidden undersmock) beneath it? In my Web version of the painting, the cuff is decidedly more of a golden burnt sienna color than his hand, which is the same color as his face. Gloves are most often seen with one on, and one off and held in the hand. This could indicate a golden brown satin cuff of a sleeved waistcoat. See other similar details on cuffs in other paintings: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/moroni/taylor.jpg Double tabs on fine tailor's waistcoat. http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/moroni/contarin.jpg Single tabs on red cardinal's(?) robe. http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/v/veronese/lady.jpg Single tabs on brown velvet dress. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Danielle Nunn Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 5:25 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cuff puzzle in painting -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Here's another link: (the one Teddy provided doesn't work from my server) >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/m/mabuse/baudouin.jpg I had the same problem. >>Is this man wearing another, long sleeved, garment *under* that >>beautiful shirt, the only part visible being the picadils/tabs at >>the wrist?? Nope, I think they are gloves. If you look at the left side of his index finger on his right hand I see a faint line which *could* be a seam. I also think that the wrinkles shown are in the wrong place for a bare hand. >The picadilled cuffs look very leathery, especially when you consider >the width between snips, there's no evident fraying, and the colour - a >sort of light rose-orange - is also suggestive. I would have to agree with this as well. Also the Spanish were known for making incredibly fine leather gloves. There are records of a Spanish noble woman (can't remember who) who bought her gloves a gross at a time! This suggests to me that they were so fine that they would wear out quickly - these gloves seem to me, to be of that sort. >Or is it possible that this fabric has been sewn on beneath as a guard to >protect the delicately pleated cuffs? Well I've never seen any evidence for something like that. I don't understand what the guards would be sewn to? >He's wearing three garments for certain - the creamy brocade robe, the >slashed black doublet, the very full and decorated shirt. Is it possible >that he is also wearing a leather underdoublet and perhaps an undershirt >beneath that, for comfort? In my understanding of 16th century layering is: he *could* have worn another shirt under that one but not a doublet or jerkin. Isn't his outfit just gorgeous though! I think it's interesting that his sleeves, doublet/jerkin, and hosen are all a very dark blue or a very blue black. Cheers, Danielle ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 13:38:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02489 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:38:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA23049; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:54:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA29268 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:46:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA29261 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:46:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.27 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 10:46:07 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:50:05 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01be4181$190fb900$7417ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990114113105.00bc3830@pop.slip.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" The leading strings may have been useful, atavistic sleeves. The wealthy medieval Persians had sleeves to the ground, with openings at the point where they met the body and also (or alternatively ) part way down the sleeve to put the arms or hands through, respectively. If the sleeves were not used, they hung from the shoulders down to the ground. Max Tilke's on-line book shows more modern versions of these ancient costumes. I've seen at least one painting of a little boy in Italian(?) dress with his sleeves hanging from his shoulders and buttoned together (using the wrist closure buttons) behind him to keep them out of his way. They were real sleeves, which he would have put on to keep warm if he were outdoors. Sort of like people tie the belt of their raincoat behind them today, to keep it handy but out of the way. I can easily see these sleeves, atavistic and otherwise, used to keep squirmy people securely in their high chairs and out of harm's way. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 2:35 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >None of the walkers I've seen from the 14th century through at least >the 16th Century would prevent the child's reach or keep them from >tipping or going through doorways. Me neither. They have square bases, like mine had under the round plastic bits. Some look like modern old-people walkers, and some look like mine with a seat in the middle. >One of the most common things which maimed and killed children of >that time is falling into the fire. > >Leading strings attached to the backs of the doublet or shoulders of >the tunic is something you also see with the pre16th century. This is >so charming (and very costume oriented;) and it works. I think the leading strings are the method of tying a baby to your own apron strings. It gives a toddler about 6' of 'freedom' in any direction, and gives Mom a handle. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 13:42:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02536 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:42:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA23398; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:57:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA29598 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:50:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (root@jefferson.patriot.net [206.151.9.249]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA29590 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:50:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.29.51.97] (th-2-45.patriot.net [206.29.51.97]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA16566 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:45:45 -0500 Message-Id: <199901161845.NAA16566@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Lecture on 1790s Date: Sat, 16 Jan 99 13:49:40 -0500 x-sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Deb Rand wrote, >I would love to attend the Gadsby's Tavern lecture but unfortunately cannot. >Is there some way I could receive/purchase any literature/info. packet that >may be part of the lecture? Please? I think this is the second request about the lecture. Alden O'Brien, the curator who is giving the lecture, is not on the h-costume list. I would suggest contacting her directly . Her address was included in the original message! -Carol Kocian _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 14:13:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02819 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:13:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA26147; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 12:28:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA02112 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 12:21:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (root@jefferson.patriot.net [206.151.9.249]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA02105 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 12:21:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.29.51.55] (th-2-3.patriot.net [206.29.51.55]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA18940 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:16:42 -0500 Message-Id: <199901161916.OAA18940@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: H-COST: Rit Date: Sat, 16 Jan 99 14:20:37 -0500 x-sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia wrote, >Rit is real dye, of course, or it wouldnt dye fabric. The problem with >Rit is that it has all different types of dye so that at least one of them >will bind with whatever fabric you are using This means that the rest of >it just washes down the drain, which I now realize is pretty wasteful. I use Rit to dye small quanties of yarn or trim. I knew about it being a combination dye. If I'm dyeing a cellulose fiber, I also throw in a protien fiber so half the dye is not wasted. -Carol Kocian _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 15:51:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03405 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:51:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA04413; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:07:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA09393 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:59:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA09385 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:59:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.130 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 12:58:44 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Sleeves of Childhood, Was Elizabethan walker Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:02:01 -0500 Message-ID: <001101be4193$a0f41020$7417ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Here is an image of a Turkish caftan with Persian style sleeves, which I suggested might be the original source for the "sleeves of childhood," or "leading strings." http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/text/Ita lian.Renaissance/CJ38.html In this photograph, the sleeves are draped to the front of the mannequin, so you can't see the openings for the hands and arms. But in real life, they were worn draped to the back when not in use. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 16:26:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03580 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:26:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA07820; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:42:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA12509 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:34:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from mb06.swip.net (mb06.swip.net [193.12.122.210]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA12504 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:34:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.244.200.177] (dialup200-3-49.swipnet.se [130.244.200.177]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA15004 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:34:41 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: md21199@dredd.swip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36A01796.40C8F3B7@bellsouth.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:53:27 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ninni M Pettersson Subject: H-COST: Doll clothes (was: Double messages?) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ninni M Pettersson At 05.37 +0100 99-01-16, Renata McAdams wrote: >-Poster: Renata McAdams > >Hi, I am new to this list and have thoroughly enjoyed all the wonderful info >re: costuming. One of my main interests is making historically correct >dolls. Welcome to the list! I think there are several of us who dabbles in doll-making now and then. Myself I'm hard at work (yes everybody, I know I said she would be ready by Christmas, but I've been terribly delayed :-) on the finishing touches on my first doll: a young girl with a compleat and (as far as I can make it) correct c.1545 outfit. And this spring I'm tentatively thinking on starting on one with mid-19th century clothes - an elderly lady this time. By 'historically correct dolls' do you mean that they look like a doll would have done in, for example, the 18th century, or do you mean that they have historically correct clothes? Personally it's the clothes I'm interested in, the doll is mostly just something to put them on :-) /Ninni Pettersson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 16:45:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03697 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:45:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA09987; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:01:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA14033 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:53:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA14002 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:53:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.183] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101deS-0001G2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:53:04 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990116071257.00a2f710@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990116071257.00a2f710@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:14:52 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Just an Introduction In-Reply-To: <19990115154618.9966.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows karrissa david writes, in a message sent 10:46 AM 1/15/99 -0500: > >-Poster: "karrissa david" > >Hello All, > >My name is Karrissa David. I have been searching for this list serve >for a while. I am glad I have found it. (snip) >I have found tons of patterns and books on sillouetts. However, I would >love to get information on fabric used as well as popular colors. > >I hope to get lots of information. I look forward to hearing from you. You'll get an earful of all of the above here. We're a pretty friendly group, even when we are in the middle of a heavy discussion. Welcome aboard - the more the merrier! Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 16:45:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03701 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:45:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA09999; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:01:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA14032 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:53:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA14008 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:53:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.183] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101deT-0001G2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:53:05 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990116072333.00a46dc0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990116072333.00a46dc0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:29:10 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: School uniform skirts In-Reply-To: References: <369F7904.16DE@netwiz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Why just the 60's??? I went to gradeschool in the 80's!.. and It wasn't >until 1987 or so that the schoolboard passed a allowance for girls to wear >pants. The thing that annoyed us girls the most was that they would not >allow us to huddle together in little groups, or be anywhere within 5 feet >from the building, and it's warmer nooks, and cranies. That was the rule. >and All we could wear was our little plaid catholic girl uniforms. They >used to have some old ones for sale that you could buy from the school, >and those were really nice wool with little secret pockets to put your >hands... But since the Polyester revolution... alas, they are no more. I was appalled when I saw my kid's school uniform for Middle School just a few years ago. (This is on top of being appalled that she had to wear a uniform in public school.) The plaid polyester skirt cost $30 and had its pleats set with hot glue! Then when I tried to re-hem it my hands broke out in allergic spots from whatever they had treated the fabric with. (fume fume fume - I had voted against school uniforms...) Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 16:45:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03705 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:45:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA09998; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:01:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA14035 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:53:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA14018 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:53:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.183] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101deV-0001G2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:53:07 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990116073010.00c0a1a0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990116073010.00c0a1a0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:31:42 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic In-Reply-To: <369FA4D3.352F@netwiz.net> References: <199901141553.IAA17426@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Have you tried contacting Fort Ross directly? Last time I was there they put me in touch with the reenactors who 'play' there. Those folks knew what they themselves were wearing. >Some time ago there was a thread about what Russian women >settlers at Fort Ross (Calif.) might have worn. I wasn't >interested at the time, but my boss's wife and daughter >want to "dress up" to go to some event there and he's >asked if I could find any info. on it. > I lent him my Tilke book (explaining how much it would >cost to replace it!) But if anyone has any info. >specific to Fort Ross, I'd sure appreciate it. >(I wallowed around in the archives, but couldn't find >what I wanted, sorry) Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 17:26:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA03920 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:26:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA14662; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:42:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA17222 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:34:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from NIH2WAAE (smtp5.site1.csi.com [149.174.183.74]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA17215 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:34:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by csi.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:33:35 -0500 Received: from 753001610 (atl-qbu-zpn-vty29.as.wcom.net [209.154.88.29]) by hil-img-10.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/IMS-1.6) with SMTP id RAA22488 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:33:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000a01be41a0$4bd3d820$1d589ad1@753001610> From: "Matt Dragonfly Drury" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: re:undergarments Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:33:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Matt Dragonfly Drury" >You can mail order silk underwear, both men's and women's, from Wintersilks, Satisfied customer as well. Our order was lost days before we were going up to DC from Orlando (brr), and they shipped a replacement with enough time for us to enjoy them. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 18:46:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA04316 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:46:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA20947; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:02:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA23843 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:54:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA23835 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:54:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.31.168 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:53:43 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:56:16 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be41ac$111dd260$a81fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990116073010.00c0a1a0@pop.slip.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" There is a costume book for mid-19th Century California and the far West, which I personally have not seen, so I don't know if it includes Russian immigrant costume of the type you want. But it is by Rickman, David W. and called, Costume Manual: Guide to Clothing Worn in California and Far West ca. 1845. nd. Sutter's Fort. detailed costume reconstruction: Euro & Native American, Californio, 121 Costume plates b/w and color, lg. 4to. notebook bound 202p. New/used costume and textile bookseller Fred Struthers lists it as "new or noteworthy" and sells it for $26. He's on-line at www.mcn.org/e/fsbks and e-mail at fsbks@mcn.org in Ft. Bragg, California. If in doubt, e-mail him about whether it applies to Fort Ross, includes Russian, and go from there. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Saturday, January 16, 1999 10:32 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Have you tried contacting Fort Ross directly? Last time I was there they put me in touch with the reenactors who 'play' there. Those folks knew what they themselves were wearing. >Some time ago there was a thread about what Russian women >settlers at Fort Ross (Calif.) might have worn. I wasn't >interested at the time, but my boss's wife and daughter >want to "dress up" to go to some event there and he's >asked if I could find any info. on it. > I lent him my Tilke book (explaining how much it would >cost to replace it!) But if anyone has any info. >specific to Fort Ross, I'd sure appreciate it. >(I wallowed around in the archives, but couldn't find >what I wanted, sorry) Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 20:03:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA04697 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:03:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA27616; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:17:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA00116 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:09:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id SAA00109 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:09:28 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:09:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 14617 invoked from network); 17 Jan 1999 01:04:55 -0000 Received: from 26.240.3-5.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.26) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 1999 01:04:55 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990116170905.26af0d5e@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: RE: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 06:56 PM 01/16/1999 -0500, Hope H. Dunlap wrote: > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >There is a costume book for mid-19th Century California and >the far West, which I personally have not seen, so I don't >know if it includes Russian immigrant costume of the type >you want. > >But it is by Rickman, David W. and called, Costume Manual: >Guide to Clothing Worn in California and Far West ca. 1845. >nd. Sutter's Fort. detailed costume reconstruction: Euro & >Native American, Californio, 121 Costume plates b/w and >color, lg. 4to. notebook bound 202p. > >New/used costume and textile bookseller Fred Struthers lists >it as "new or noteworthy" and sells it for $26. He's >on-line at www.mcn.org/e/fsbks and e-mail at fsbks@mcn.org >in Ft. Bragg, California. If in doubt, e-mail him about >whether it applies to Fort Ross, includes Russian, and go >from there. > >Hope H. Dunlap [snip] This handbook is three-hole-punched and ready to be put in a 3-ring binder. While it is *not* a definitive source, it is not a bad starting place; though we have been talking about needing an updated edition, especially for some of the women's sections. It is primarily designed for Sutter's Fort. I can't remember offhand whether or not "Russian" clothing Fort Ross is covered. By the time Sutter's Fort was founded (1839), the Russians were looking to get out of California. I do know that the Sutter's Fort Trade Store still has lots of copies. You can call the store any day the Fort is open between 10am and 4:30pm to talk to a live body (though we have had a few days lately when *everyone* is out sick), or call at other times to leave a message. The telephone number is 916-442-4966. Or you could send an email to the store manager, Dori Cavala, at dcavala@mother.com. Can you tell I'm a Sutter's Fort docent? Joan Jurancich Sutter's Fort Costume Committee Sacramento, CA _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 20:19:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA04781 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:19:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA28653; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:35:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA01379 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:27:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.rdu.bellsouth.net (mail.rdu.bellsouth.net [205.152.32.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA01372 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:27:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from bellsouth.net (host-209-214-162-183.rdu.bellsouth.net [209.214.162.183]) by mail.rdu.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA23572 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:27:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36A13C96.732224A0@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:27:51 -0500 From: Renata McAdams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-bls40 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Doll clothes References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Renata McAdams Thanks for the welcome Ninni! Of course I want the dolls to be as beautiful as possible and look like the people of the country and era, I am recreating, but that is for another list . Here, I hope to learn about fabric, style, technique, etc. Being a first-generation Italian-American, I naturally gravitate to most things Italian. I love the dress of Ancient Rome, Greece, and the Etruscans....these people were all intermingled before and during the Roman Empire. I particularly love the dress of the Italian Renaissance. Big jump in periods, I know, but the clothing from these periods (to me)was so alive, flowing and vibrant Ninni: I think it's great that you will be customing your "elderly lady" in Victorian garb. That was also a great period of style, in particular the mid-late Victorian era. I am very curious about the dress of the people of southern Italian, but can't seem to find any books, sources on that region of Italy. Most references are made to the northern part of Italy such as Tuscany, Florence and Venice. Does anyone have any suggestions? Renata McAdams Ninni M Pettersson wrote: > By 'historically correct dolls' do you mean that they look like a > doll would have done in, for example, the 18th century, or do you mean that > they have historically correct clothes? Personally it's the clothes I'm > interested in, the doll is mostly just something to put them on :-) > > /Ninni Pettersson > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 22:01:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05445 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:01:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA07183; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:17:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA08515 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:09:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id UAA08483 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:08:55 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:08:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 25004 invoked from network); 17 Jan 1999 03:04:30 -0000 Received: from 20.240.3-5.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.20) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 1999 03:04:30 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990116190840.0927448c@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: H-COST: History of miser's purses Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich I have been knitting long purses (aka miser's purses) lately and have been wondering how long this style has been around. I know that they were popular for much of the 19th Century and at least the later part of the 18th. Has anyone ever run across references for this style (two-ended with a slit in the middle and two rings to keep things inside; made in fabric, thin leather, knitting, etc.) that pre-date the later half of the 18th Century? Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 22:03:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05458 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:02:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA07365; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:19:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA08653 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:11:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from m5.sprynet.com (m5.sprynet.com [165.121.1.92]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA08646 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:11:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (hil-c52-004-vty177.as.wcom.net [206.175.118.177]) by m5.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA06776 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 19:11:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901170311.TAA06776@m5.sprynet.com> From: "Bob and TC Carstensen" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:09:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000001be41ac$111dd260$a81fffd0@default> References: <4.1.19990116073010.00c0a1a0@pop.slip.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Bob and TC Carstensen" On 16 Jan 99, at 18:56, Hope H. Dunlap wrote: > There is a costume book for mid-19th Century California and > the far West, which I personally have not seen, so I don't > know if it includes Russian immigrant costume of the type > you want. > > But it is by Rickman, David W. and called, Costume Manual: > Guide to Clothing Worn in California and Far West ca. 1845. > nd. Sutter's Fort. detailed costume reconstruction: Euro & > Native American, Californio, 121 Costume plates b/w and > color, lg. 4to. notebook bound 202p. Oh, dear - another book to put on my "To buy" list! While doing a search on the Bookfinder web site for this (alas, they don't have it), I came across another title that sounded like a possibility - Early California Costumes 1769 - 1850 by Margaret Gilbert MacKey and Louis Pinkney Sooy. Not having seen the book, I likewise can't say if it covers Russian immigrant clothing. TC Carstensen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 22:46:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05703 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:46:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA11118; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:03:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA11738 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:55:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA11727 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:54:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p37.directcon.net [206.170.184.86]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA21418 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 19:50:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 19:50:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901170350.TAA21418@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: H-Cost: Synthetic whalebone? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson About two years, ago, someone posted to this list about a new type of synthetic whalebone that was supposed to closely replicate the real thing. I believe it was made in Germany. Does anyone know anything about it? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 22:52:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05733 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:52:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA11693; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:09:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA12214 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:01:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA12207 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:01:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip223.denver9.co.pub-ip.psi.net [38.31.5.223]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA12569 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:01:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A16177.5FE30CF2@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:05:12 -0700 From: Mary Denise Smith Organization: Costume & Dressmaker Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: Synthetic whalebone? References: <199901170350.TAA21418@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mary Denise Smith Hello Margo and List, I bought some and found it "remembered" its curve entirely too well. I think it is all polyester, is very white, feels nice and the cut ends (I had to use heavy wire cutters, as scissors just didn't do the job) softened and smoothed over very nicely in a candle flame or rubbed on the soleplate of an iron. It does come in a variety of weights, but this is the only one I tried. I have since given the remainders to another member of this list. Hope this helps, Mary Denise Smith _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 16 23:00:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA05782 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:00:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA12414; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:16:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA12721 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:08:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA12716 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:08:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kimberlykdobbs@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id DY5VHTKR; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:07:54 EST To: h-costume@indra.com, sewinghistoric@onelist.com, sewing@onelist.com Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:03:00 -0600 Subject: H-COST: Fw: [sewingbusinesses] Re: Digest Number 40 Message-ID: <19990116.220303.-169117.1.kimberlykdobbs@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,4-16,18,20-30,32,34,36,38-40,42-44,46-48,50,52,54,56-57,59-60,62-64,66-77 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: kimberlykdobbs@juno.com (Kimberly K Dobbs) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kimberlykdobbs@juno.com (Kimberly K Dobbs) Hi, I received this on my list. I thought maybe someone on here could help her! Kimberly --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: MsMystic1@aol.com To: sewingbusinesses@onelist.com Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:18:52 EST Subject: [sewingbusinesses] Re: Digest Number 40 Message-ID: <92b64ca5.36a1488c@aol.com> From: MsMystic1@aol.com This was posted on aol sewing board, pattern search. Can any of you help her out? I thought maybe you could, since so many of you make wedding gowns. Her email is Ortmayer@aol.com. Carole Subject: helphelphelp Date: 1/16/1999 4:05 PM Eastern Standard Time From: Ortmayer Message-id: <19990116160506.21939.00002003@ng152.aol.com> I am not burned out (yet) but I am frantic. My future daughter-in-law is letting me make her wedding dress, which pleases me a lot since she can afford anything she wants. I ordered a pattern from Harper House, MM41, which we both liked since she will be 8 months pregnant when the wedding day arrives, and it is cut high under the bust with a full skirt. I ordered the pattern right after Thanksgiving, and it has not arrived. I can't phone them because their number gives you lots of other numbers to press and none of them get to a real person. There is one for leaving a message, but after half a dozen tries, no response. I used to be able to contact someone by email (harperh@epix.net) but the last three emails went unanswered. Shriek!! I have learned that Harper House is a clearing house for a number of other pattern companies, who provide the patterns that HH sells. The one that makes the pattern I want is called Period Patterns. I can't find an ad for them in Threads or any of my other sewing publications. Does anyone have any ideas? There is definitely a deadline - I have to take the dress in muslin to the San Juan Islands for the bride to try on the first of March, and the idea of designing a dress from a drawing for someone who can go to Paris to buy things leaves me all stomach-quivery. Needless to say, if someone has the pattern I will gladly pay $50 for it. I will also DEEPLY appreciate any hints on what to do now, barring going to Paris myself and getting Dior to make it. Jane, Escondido, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 00:18:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA06848 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:18:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA18437; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:34:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA18000 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:26:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from rainey.blueneptune.com (root@rainey.blueneptune.com [209.133.45.253]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA17995 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 22:26:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from BlueNeptune.Com (ppp149.blueneptune.com [209.133.45.149]) by rainey.blueneptune.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA01333 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:26:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from BlackCat@BlueNeptune.Com) Message-ID: <36A1741F.60560482@BlueNeptune.Com> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:24:47 -0800 From: "BlackCat =^..^=" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costuming Mailing List Subject: H-COST: Blackwork on coifs?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "BlackCat =^..^=" Does anyone know if blackwork was done on early 16th century men's coifs? --~Chris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 01:25:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA07425 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 01:24:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA23583; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:41:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA22036 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:33:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id XAA22030 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:33:02 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 26257 invoked from network); 17 Jan 1999 06:28:36 -0000 Received: from 198.240.3-2.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.198) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 1999 06:28:36 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990116223245.343fd44c@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Blackwork on coifs?? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich Chris, I know that there are surviving examples of embroidered nightcaps from the *late* sixteenth and early *seventeen* centuries. I have never seen it suggested in any references I've looked at that blackwork (as we now define it) was done in England at the beginning of the 16th century. It seemed to become fashionable for cuffs and collars of men's shirts and women's shifts after Catherine of Aragon married Henry VIII. Given the detail with which some wills were written, or household inventories, such sources may be your best bet. All I can suggest is to keep looking, but don't get your hopes up. Joan Jurancich aka Lady Devereux (RPFN) Sacramento, CA At 09:24 PM 01/16/1999 -0800, BlackCat =^..^= wrote: > >-Poster: "BlackCat =^..^=" > >Does anyone know if blackwork was done on early 16th century men's >coifs? > >--~Chris Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 02:38:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA07931 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 02:38:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA28290; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:54:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA25909 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:46:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA25903 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:46:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.175] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101muT-0002DY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:46:14 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990116135511.00bd3e70@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 14:05:45 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan In-Reply-To: <000d01be4181$190fb900$7417ffd0@default> References: <4.1.19990114113105.00bc3830@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I was talking about the ones called leading strings, which were up to 3 inches wide by several feet long, and which occour in periods where there are no exact parallel form of actual sleeves. These occour as late as the 1600's, 1700's, and early 1800's. Certainly they were derived from hanging sleeves, but they no longer are by the time they are called leading strings. Check out ill.605 p.264 and ill.691 p.287 in Boucher/20K Years to see what I am talking about. In the first illo they are thin strap-like things. In the second illo they look like flat narrow vestigial hanging sleeves attached where an adult womens' dress had none. >The leading strings may have been useful, atavistic sleeves. >The wealthy medieval Persians had sleeves to the ground, >with openings at the point where they met the body and also >(or alternatively ) part way down the sleeve to put the arms >or hands through, respectively. If the sleeves were not >used, they hung from the shoulders down to the ground. Max >Tilke's on-line book shows more modern versions of these >ancient costumes. > >I've seen at least one painting of a little boy in >Italian(?) dress with his sleeves hanging from his shoulders >and buttoned together (using the wrist closure buttons) >behind him to keep them out of his way. They were real >sleeves, which he would have put on to keep warm if he were >outdoors. Sort of like people tie the belt of their >raincoat behind them today, to keep it handy but out of the >way. I can easily see these sleeves, atavistic and >otherwise, used to keep squirmy people securely in their >high chairs and out of harm's way. > >Hope H. Dunlap > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-h-costume@indra.com >[mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On >Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 2:35 PM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan > > > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > >>None of the walkers I've seen from the 14th century through >at least >>the 16th Century would prevent the child's reach or keep >them from >>tipping or going through doorways. > >Me neither. They have square bases, like mine had under the >round plastic >bits. Some look like modern old-people walkers, and some >look like mine >with a seat in the middle. > >>One of the most common things which maimed and killed >children of >>that time is falling into the fire. >> >>Leading strings attached to the backs of the doublet or >shoulders of >>the tunic is something you also see with the pre16th >century. This is >>so charming (and very costume oriented;) and it works. > >I think the leading strings are the method of tying a baby >to your own >apron strings. It gives a toddler about 6' of 'freedom' in >any direction, >and gives Mom a handle. > > >Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > >____________________________________________________________ >_____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to >majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 02:39:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA07951 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 02:39:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA28450; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:56:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA25997 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:48:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA25992 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:47:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.180] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101mw7-0002F4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:47:56 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990116140631.00922250@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:45:01 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Sleeves of Childhood, Was Elizabethan walker In-Reply-To: <001101be4193$a0f41020$7417ffd0@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Here is an image of a Turkish caftan with Persian style >sleeves, which I suggested might be the original source for >the "sleeves of childhood," or "leading strings." >http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/text/Ita >lian.Renaissance/CJ38.html >In this photograph, the sleeves are draped to the front of >the mannequin, so you can't see the openings for the hands >and arms. But in real life, they were worn draped to the >back when not in use. This may be what Turkish/Persian mothers used, but by the time they had the name leading strings they weren't sleeves anymore. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 03:24:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA13846 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 03:24:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA00721; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 01:40:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA28046 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 01:32:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA28036 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 01:32:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.172] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101nd2-0002jy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:32:16 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990116235710.00be2560@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:03:26 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Doll clothes (was: Double messages?) In-Reply-To: References: <36A01796.40C8F3B7@bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>Hi, I am new to this list and have thoroughly enjoyed all the wonderful info >>re: costuming. One of my main interests is making historically correct >>dolls. > > Welcome to the list! I think there are several of us who dabbles in >doll-making now and then. Myself I'm hard at work (yes everybody, I know I >said she would be ready by Christmas, but I've been terribly delayed :-) on >the finishing touches on my first doll: a young girl with a compleat and >(as far as I can make it) correct c.1545 outfit. And this spring I'm >tentatively thinking on starting on one with mid-19th century clothes - an >elderly lady this time. > By 'historically correct dolls' do you mean that they look like a >doll would have done in, for example, the 18th century, or do you mean that >they have historically correct clothes? Personally it's the clothes I'm >interested in, the doll is mostly just something to put them on :-) Does anyone on this list dabble in paper dolls? My research shows these going back to the mid 1600's (if I read the photo correctly). Certainly they go back to the early 1800's as cheap 'fashion babies'. I draw well enough to be able to manage this, and it would do very well for the dresses I am not sure I want to take the time sewing for dolls. I was thinking I could put my face on them and draw any waist size I like. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 03:24:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA13850 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 03:24:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA00712; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 01:40:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA28045 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 01:32:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA28027 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 01:32:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.172] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 101nd0-0002jy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 00:32:15 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990116235438.00bdc490@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:56:03 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Blackwork on coifs?? In-Reply-To: <36A1741F.60560482@BlueNeptune.Com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I have seen photos of Elizabethan blackwork on what they were calling men's nightcaps, but not on any day wear for Elizabethan men. > >Does anyone know if blackwork was done on early 16th century men's >coifs? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 04:50:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA14311 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 04:50:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA03711; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 02:34:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA29897 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 02:25:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from ns.altum.com ([209.61.95.225]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA29889 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 02:25:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from knowles@localhost) by ns.altum.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA09228; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 04:25:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 04:25:28 -0500 (EST) From: Sheryl Knowles Message-Id: <199901170925.EAA09228@ns.altum.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Doll clothes (was: Double messages?) Cc: knowles@thegrid.net, sknowles@worldsaway.com Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sheryl Knowles Hello, I am a long-time lurker on this list and have collected paper dolls (and drawn and published them) for years and years. They can be an interesting facet of historical clothing and have the "feature" of frequently displaying underclothes. Paper toys, of course, had to wait until paper became commonly available. According to C.H.Fawcett "Collector's Guide to Antique Paper Dolls" originally published in 1951, paper dolls as fashion models did not appear until 1791, altho paper pantins (jumping jacks) were introduced into Europe in 1662. The first was advertised in the "Journal der Moden" thusly: "A new and very pretty invention is the so-called English doll which we have lately received from London.... a young female figure cut out of stout cardboard. It is about eight inches high, has simply curled hair, and is dressed in underclothing and corset. With it go six sets of tastefully designed dresses and head-dresses which are cut out of paper...." M.B. Howard in "Those Fascinating Paper Dolls", originally published in 1965 and republished by Dover in 1981, describes 'ritual figures of paper' used in rites in the orient in 900AD and mentions the pre-Columbian use of paper figures in MesoAmerica, but, technically, most people class paper _dolls_ as dolls of paper (or cardboard) with changes of attire. Ms Howard states that the earliest such paper doll published in the United States came out in 1812. I must admit that my 100s of paper dolls take up far less room and show far more styles than my collections of dolls or SCA garb. *sigh* But they are not as tactile. :-) ---Sheryl Knowles SCA: Teleri Tawel, Crosston, Mists, West  _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 05:12:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA14416 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:11:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA05418; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 03:28:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA13798 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 03:20:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from morgoth.tuug.org (root@morgoth.tuug.org [130.232.72.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA13638 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 03:19:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from delenn.yok.utu.fi ([130.232.128.27] HELO delenn.yok.utu.fi ident: NO-IDENT-SERVICE [port 8452]) by tuug.org with SMTP id <40845-1450>; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:19:51 +0200 From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" Organization: Lyninine Federation To: Margo Anderson , h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:19:59 +2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: Synthetic whalebone? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199901170350.TAA21418@zeus.directcon.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990117101951Z40845-1450+4@tuug.org> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" On 16 Jan 99, at 19:50, Margo Anderson wrote: > About two years, ago, someone posted to this list about a new type of > synthetic whalebone that was supposed to closely replicate the real thing. > I believe it was made in Germany. Does anyone know anything about it? I have been using it (only the 1mm x 10mm and 2.5mm x 6mm sizes, though others are also available) in the corsets and bodices I have made during the last couple of years. I cannot compare it to real whalebone, as I have never had access to that, but perhaps I can answer some questions anyway. -- -------(c) 1999--------------* lynoure@tuug.org * Ella Lynoure Rajamaki--------* http://www.tuug.org/~lynoure * _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 05:12:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA14423 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:12:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA05483; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 03:29:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA14365 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 03:20:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from morgoth.tuug.org (root@morgoth.tuug.org [130.232.72.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA14253 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 03:20:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from delenn.yok.utu.fi ([130.232.128.27] HELO delenn.yok.utu.fi ident: NO-IDENT-SERVICE [port 8964]) by tuug.org with SMTP id <40846-1469>; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:20:21 +0200 From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" Organization: Lyninine Federation To: Mary Denise Smith , h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:20:33 +2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: Synthetic whalebone? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36A16177.5FE30CF2@earthlink.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990117102021Z40846-1469+3@tuug.org> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" On 16 Jan 99, at 21:05, Mary Denise Smith wrote: > It does come in a variety of weights, but this is the only one I tried. What weight did you try? -- -------(c) 1999--------------* lynoure@tuug.org * Ella Lynoure Rajamaki--------* http://www.tuug.org/~lynoure * _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 07:24:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA15051 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:24:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA09211; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:41:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA03647 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:32:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from onramp.i2k.com (root@onramp.i2k.com [207.75.224.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id FAA03642 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:32:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from raille(o7du32.i2k.com[198.110.185.32]) (1183 bytes) by onramp.i2k.com via sendmail with P:smtp/R:bind_dns/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:25:55 -0500 (EST) (Smail-3.2.0.99 1997-Dec-4 #30 built 1998-Oct-10) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990117073922.007a7100@onramp.i2k.com> X-Sender: alwen@onramp.i2k.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:39:22 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Lynn Carpenter Subject: H-COST: Wintersilks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Carpenter "Matt Dragonfly Drury" wrote: > >>You can mail order silk underwear, both men's and women's, from >>Wintersilks, > > >Satisfied customer as well. Our order was lost days before we were going up >to DC from Orlando (brr), and they shipped a replacement with enough time >for us to enjoy them. Has anyone dealt with them recently? I did an Altavista search to find the URL http://www.wintersilks.com/ and the second article was this one, which said they were filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. The article is dated August 6, 1988. http://www.mediacentral.com/Magazines/CatalogAge/Weekly/98/1998080602.htm Anyone know if they have their finances straightened out? Lynn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 07:39:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA15124 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:39:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA09567; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:56:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA04157 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:47:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from onramp.i2k.com (root@onramp.i2k.com [207.75.224.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id FAA04152 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:47:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from raille(o7du32.i2k.com[198.110.185.32]) (2135 bytes) by onramp.i2k.com via sendmail with P:smtp/R:bind_dns/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:41:15 -0500 (EST) (Smail-3.2.0.99 1997-Dec-4 #30 built 1998-Oct-10) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990117075442.007a78c0@onramp.i2k.com> X-Sender: alwen@onramp.i2k.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:54:42 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Lynn Carpenter Subject: H-COST: Miser's Purses Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Carpenter Joan M Jurancich wrote: >I have been knitting long purses (aka miser's purses) lately and have been >wondering how long this style has been around. I know that they were popular >for much of the 19th Century and at least the later part of the 18th. Has >anyone ever run across references for this style (two-ended with a slit in >the middle and two rings to keep things inside; made in fabric, thin >leather, knitting, etc.) that pre-date the later half of the 18th Century? > Coincidentally, working on my New Year's resolution to de-clutter my house, I found a Piecework magazine my mom gave me with an article on miser's purses by Gwen Blakley Kinsler, which includes directions for crocheting a beaded one. (Piecework, Nov/Dec 1996, pages 46-51) She says, "...the tube-shaped miser's purses were popular for nearly 150 years, between 1780 to 1925" and that they were most popular during the second half of the 19th century, becoming one of the most common purses carried by Victorians, and used by both men and women. The shape is supposed to have originated from the practice of carrying coins in the toe of a stocking. The article is illustrated with examples from the collection of the Kliots (the Lacis people), including one which looks exactly like a tube sock with the top sewn shut. That is, one end is rounded like the sock toe, and the other is squared off like the top of the sock. But I should mention that it is beaded with shiny silvery beads, and has "danglies" of large silvery beads at both ends. So this doesn't date them any earlier than 1780. Wish I could show you these cool pictures! Lynn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 07:43:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA15148 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:43:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA09715; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 06:00:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA04278 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:51:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA04268 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 05:51:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port065.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.65]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id NAA14677 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:51:12 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36A1FBDC.58A9D07D@ndh.net> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 16:03:59 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Wrong date X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------EEB473939BD224B6E0A43EB1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef --------------EEB473939BD224B6E0A43EB1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > I just now got this message, its 4:41 (PST) pm Friday, 1/15. It's dated > Jan 8th. Even though I check my mail on an hourly basis while at work, I > keep looking back and finding new messages from you dated a week ago. You > may want to check the date on your computer to see if it's right. I > couldn't figure it out at first, and I'm sure I'm not the only person > you're confusing! > > Yours, > Lynn D > Sorry, but my computer clock doesn´t work correctly, I know. I correct the date from time to time but after some days it is always late. I believe that it`s stops counting when the computer is off. But now I`ll try to remember to correct the date every time before writing a message, so nobody gets confused. Thanks for mentioning the problem. Greetings, Diana --------------EEB473939BD224B6E0A43EB1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 

I just now got this message, its 4:41 (PST) pm Friday, 1/15.  It's dated
Jan 8th.  Even though I check my mail on an hourly basis while at work, I
keep looking back and finding new messages from you dated a week ago.  You
may want to check the date on your computer to see if it's right.  I
couldn't figure it out at first, and I'm sure I'm not the only person
you're confusing!

Yours,
Lynn D
Sorry, but my computer clock doesn´t work correctly, I know.
I correct the date from time to time but after some days it is always late.
I believe that it`s stops counting when the computer is off.
But now I`ll try to remember to correct the date every time before writing a message,
so nobody gets confused.
Thanks for mentioning the problem.

Greetings,
Diana --------------EEB473939BD224B6E0A43EB1-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 09:06:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15575 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:06:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA12887; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:23:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA07912 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:14:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA07907 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:14:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.201] (ell146.acadia.net [205.217.218.201]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA28615 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:14:39 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:14:44 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: nightcaps Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Men's nightcaps, until the 19th century, were *not* worn for sleeping (bed caps were), they were fashionable "undress" which meant they were worn at home in informal situations, especially if the wearer habitually wore a wig (they were worn well into the 19c though, when wigs were no longer worn.) Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 09:29:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15689 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:29:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA14365; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:46:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA09285 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:37:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from m13.boston.juno.com (m13.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.193]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA09256 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:37:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kiri5@juno.com) by m13.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DY6ZJG7A; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:37:25 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:32:42 -0500 Subject: H-COST: Elizabethan sites Message-ID: <19990117.093243.3302.1.kiri5@juno.com> References: <199901171251.FAA04287@indra.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5-8 From: kiri5@juno.com (Bette Anne Adams) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kiri5@juno.com (Bette Anne Adams) Are there any Elizabethan or Renaissance sites out there? My husband and I have very lightly dabbled in CW and I think the former would be more to our tastes. Especially my husband's interest in armor. Anything earlier. Thank you, Bette Anne Adams ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 09:44:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15762 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:44:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA16411; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:02:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA09989 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:53:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA09984 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:53:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.175 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 06:52:30 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Sleeves of Childhood, Was Elizabethan walker Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:55:34 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be4229$a1851b60$551fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <4.1.19990116140631.00922250@pop.slip.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I think you may have missed my earlier post. You are quite right, they had ceased to be sleeves, hence my use of the word "atavistic." But the shape of the extremely slender Persian sleeves is precisely the shape used on some old children's dresses. I could have used the word "vestigial" too. Repeating from my first post on the subject: "The leading strings may have been useful, atavistic sleeves. The wealthy medieval Persians had sleeves to the ground, with openings at the point where they met the body and also (or alternatively ) part way down the sleeve to put the arms or hands through, respectively. If the sleeves were not used, they hung from the shoulders down to the ground. Max Tilke's on-line book shows more modern versions of these ancient costumes. I've seen at least one painting of a little boy in Italian(?) dress with his sleeves hanging from his shoulders and buttoned together (using the wrist closure buttons) behind him to keep them out of his way. They were real sleeves, which he would have put on to keep warm if he were outdoors. Sort of like people tie the belt of their raincoat behind them today, to keep it handy but out of the way. I can easily see these sleeves, atavistic and otherwise, used to keep squirmy people securely in their high chairs and out of harm's way." These sleeves were used on grown-up's Persian caftans. In my house, the children would use them to tie their parents to their chairs. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 2:45 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Sleeves of Childhood, Was Elizabethan walker -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Here is an image of a Turkish caftan with Persian style >sleeves, which I suggested might be the original source for >the "sleeves of childhood," or "leading strings." >http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/text/It a >lian.Renaissance/CJ38.html >In this photograph, the sleeves are draped to the front of >the mannequin, so you can't see the openings for the hands >and arms. But in real life, they were worn draped to the >back when not in use. This may be what Turkish/Persian mothers used, but by the time they had the name leading strings they weren't sleeves anymore. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 10:00:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA15847 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:00:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA17200; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:17:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA10824 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:08:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA10816 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:08:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.221 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:08:06 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: RE: Paper Dolls Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:07:44 -0500 Message-ID: <000401be422b$ce2af020$551fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <199901170925.EAA09228@ns.altum.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" In Little Men, by Louisa May Alcott, there is a scene where little Daisy sacrifices her paper doll babies on a fire made by the boys. They were drawn for her by her Aunt Amy, who was very artistic and also very fond of nice feminine clothes. Published 1871. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sheryl Knowles Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 4:25 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: knowles@thegrid.net; sknowles@worldsaway.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Doll clothes (was: Double messages?) -Poster: Sheryl Knowles Hello, I am a long-time lurker on this list and have collected paper dolls (and drawn and published them) for years and years. They can be an interesting facet of historical clothing and have the "feature" of frequently displaying underclothes. Paper toys, of course, had to wait until paper became commonly available. According to C.H.Fawcett "Collector's Guide to Antique Paper Dolls" originally published in 1951, paper dolls as fashion models did not appear until 1791, altho paper pantins (jumping jacks) were introduced into Europe in 1662. The first was advertised in the "Journal der Moden" thusly: "A new and very pretty invention is the so-called English doll which we have lately received from London.... a young female figure cut out of stout cardboard. It is about eight inches high, has simply curled hair, and is dressed in underclothing and corset. With it go six sets of tastefully designed dresses and head-dresses which are cut out of paper...." M.B. Howard in "Those Fascinating Paper Dolls", originally published in 1965 and republished by Dover in 1981, describes 'ritual figures of paper' used in rites in the orient in 900AD and mentions the pre-Columbian use of paper figures in MesoAmerica, but, technically, most people class paper _dolls_ as dolls of paper (or cardboard) with changes of attire. Ms Howard states that the earliest such paper doll published in the United States came out in 1812. I must admit that my 100s of paper dolls take up far less room and show far more styles than my collections of dolls or SCA garb. *sigh* But they are not as tactile. :-) ---Sheryl Knowles SCA: Teleri Tawel, Crosston, Mists, West  ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 10:12:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA15914 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:12:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA17659; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:29:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA11668 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:20:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA11658 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:20:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.113 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:19:59 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Cc: Subject: RE: H-COST: Fw: [sewingbusinesses] Re: Digest Number 40 Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:23:07 -0500 Message-ID: <000501be422d$7838c320$551fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <19990116.220303.-169117.1.kimberlykdobbs@juno.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Amazon Drygoods also carries Period Patterns. They have an Italian Renaissance number in their catalogue, Period Patterns, Medieval Miscellanea Number 41, which may be the one this lady needs. Call them at 1-800-798-7979 to place an order. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Kimberly K Dobbs Sent: Saturday, January 16, 1999 11:03 PM To: h-costume@indra.com; sewinghistoric@onelist.com; sewing@onelist.com Subject: H-COST: Fw: [sewingbusinesses] Re: Digest Number 40 -Poster: kimberlykdobbs@juno.com (Kimberly K Dobbs) Hi, I received this on my list. I thought maybe someone on here could help her! Kimberly --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: MsMystic1@aol.com To: sewingbusinesses@onelist.com Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:18:52 EST Subject: [sewingbusinesses] Re: Digest Number 40 Message-ID: <92b64ca5.36a1488c@aol.com> From: MsMystic1@aol.com This was posted on aol sewing board, pattern search. Can any of you help her out? I thought maybe you could, since so many of you make wedding gowns. Her email is Ortmayer@aol.com. Carole Subject: helphelphelp Date: 1/16/1999 4:05 PM Eastern Standard Time From: Ortmayer Message-id: <19990116160506.21939.00002003@ng152.aol.com> I am not burned out (yet) but I am frantic. My future daughter-in-law is letting me make her wedding dress, which pleases me a lot since she can afford anything she wants. I ordered a pattern from Harper House, MM41, which we both liked since she will be 8 months pregnant when the wedding day arrives, and it is cut high under the bust with a full skirt. I ordered the pattern right after Thanksgiving, and it has not arrived. I can't phone them because their number gives you lots of other numbers to press and none of them get to a real person. There is one for leaving a message, but after half a dozen tries, no response. I used to be able to contact someone by email (harperh@epix.net) but the last three emails went unanswered. Shriek!! I have learned that Harper House is a clearing house for a number of other pattern companies, who provide the patterns that HH sells. The one that makes the pattern I want is called Period Patterns. I can't find an ad for them in Threads or any of my other sewing publications. Does anyone have any ideas? There is definitely a deadline - I have to take the dress in muslin to the San Juan Islands for the bride to try on the first of March, and the idea of designing a dress from a drawing for someone who can go to Paris to buy things leaves me all stomach-quivery. Needless to say, if someone has the pattern I will gladly pay $50 for it. I will also DEEPLY appreciate any hints on what to do now, barring going to Paris myself and getting Dior to make it. Jane, Escondido, CA ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 10:20:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA15958 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:20:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA18127; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:37:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA12213 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:28:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA12208 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 08:28:44 -0700 (MST) From: Seton1355@aol.com Received: from Seton1355@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LYJKa06037 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:28:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1e9a4544.36a20189@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:28:09 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan sites Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 236 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Seton1355@aol.com Elizabethan Costuming Homepage Color in 16th Century Dress Tudor dress: portfolio of images 17th Century Stays - How to make them The Elizabethan Corset Page 17th Century Fashion, 1600-1630 What is a Codpiece? Codpiece International Menu Celtic Dress of the 16th C. Native Clothing in the 17th Century Pilgrim Clothing: Dress in Early New England Pilgrim Costume Welcome to Tudor England Tudors and Stuarts THE QUEEN OF SCOTS I have lots of others. Phillipa > Are there any Elizabethan or Renaissance sites out there? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 14:02:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17127 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:02:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04296; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:20:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA27639 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:10:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA27632; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:10:55 -0700 (MST) From: Gerekr@aol.com Received: from Gerekr@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id DUWNa01221; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:09:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2525128e.36a23570@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:09:36 EST To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: WW II Help Kids clothing Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Claris Emailer v2.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gerekr@aol.com On 1/15/99 11:35 AM you wrote: >-Poster: Melanie Wilson > >Has anyone any pictures of Children in Britain in World War 2 they could >scan and send me for my daughters school project ? > >Also any kids games & special memories of food ? > >Thanks > >Mel I just happen to have at home a book from the children's section of the public library called "After the war was over" by the illustrator Michael Foreman. It's his personal recollections of the period, mostly in watercolor but with a few photos thrown in, in which the children's or other clothing corresponds 100% to that in the illustrations... The point being that Mr Foreman has also written an "award-winning" book, titled "War Boy", which is about himself during the war years. If in the same style, that might be a good place to look for all three, clothes, games and food. I'm pretty sure both of these were published in GB first, as he still lives there, so that might be of some assistance, if you have time to collect them. About food, my library also has recently received "Food and Feasts Between the Wars", a children's series, no idea how available where you are, that might be pertinent; it would have factual reproductions mostly, vs. illustrations, as it follows the other titles in the series I've seen (F&F in the Middle ages, Ren, with the Vikings, Victorians, etc. as I recall). Based on Vikings and MA books, the text may not be 100%, but the illustrations are fine. Good luck, Chimene/Patsy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 14:29:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17307 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:29:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA06189; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:46:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA29920 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:37:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from send103.yahoomail.com (send103.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.92]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA29913 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:37:23 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990117193932.7619.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Received: from [209.52.33.103] by send103.yahoomail.com; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:39:32 PST Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:39:32 -0800 (PST) From: Glenda Hohmann Subject: H-COST: undergarments To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Glenda Hohmann > - -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > Btw, has anyone else noticed that it seems impossible to buy anything > but wonder bras these days, you know, the kind with underwires? I dont > like sports bras. I just want one of those little nothing kind of bras > that were so popular in the 70s that women bought to try to look like > they were braless. At least they were comfortable. Anyone know where to > find one of those today, or at least something without underwires that > doesnt look like one of those Playtex pointy things? Who still wears > those? [from v4n38] They can be found, you just have to look and look and look, although it seems that it is easier to find them here in Canada from what you are saying. In the last couple of years, I have found that the best place to find bras that fit me and at a reasonable price is Walmart of all places. I don't know if they have the same customer service where you live as here, but when I was looking for more of the same bra and they didn't have any, they immediately asked if I wanted them to order me some more and, if so, how many (without me even asking if they would!). You have to keep in mind that the closest thing that I have found to fitting me there (and they do fit reasonably well) is a Fruit of the Loom bra with cotton spandex fabric, for both the cups and band, and underwire in a 34D. This is not too bad, considering that I fit a 32DD, although the "official" measurement guidelines tell me that I "should" fit a 38 with what size cup I'm not sure, but I have 8" difference between my under bust (33") and my bust (40") measurements, and what a lot of women hate about me most is that it is all natural. Go figure..... The other thing that you could do is give up and start making your own. I have started doing this for my sister's sports bras as she can't find any that fit her entirely correctly, or are large enough, or that keep everything from bouncing out when she is playing volleyball. The ones that do fit her are cut too low and, to fit her bust, are too large around her ribs. And mine are next. I have altered the sportsbra pattern that I made for my sister to fit me yet resemble more of a regular bra. The real great joy - it supports me with NO underwire :> (happy, happy, joy, joy, joy!) and that is when it is made with 2 layers of cotton/spandex fabric. I also have a Vogue bustier pattern (9273 - I think it is still current) and view B has fitted cups on it with an integrated strap (no seam attachment to the top of the cup) that I am going to alter (shorten) and turn into a bra pattern. This one I am going to make with regular woven fabric. As I am making it to fit myself, and no one else, a couple of inches of elastic in the straps and the band are all that is required for ease when you move around. There are patterns available out there for making your own bras, panties, and other lingeree. I don't know what you have available in your area for pattern companies, but a couple of good ones that I have found, aside from the one Vogue, are Kwik Sew brand and Stretch-n-Sew brand. Both companies are out of the US and do a lot of stuff that is actionwear/stretchy/ lingeree type stuff with great instructions. It's definitely something for you to think about. From what you described of the bra type that you are looking for, it is basically the same as I used to wear the first few years of highschool -- an elastic band with the cups being two triangles of lycra, gathered a bit on the sides, and two skinny elastic straps. That style would definitely be easier to make than what I need to be able to support my figure. Anyway, I hope this helps you a bit. I would have answered sooner, but I am getting really backed up on my reading as the list is a bit more active than I expected (and I get the digested form). Sincerely, Glenda Hohmann (Katrynka Chornovoloskaya) Kamloops, BC, Canada (MoAS, Ramsgaard, An Tir) == ***************************************** * Two things stand like stone: * * Kindness in another's trouble, * * Courage in your own. * ***************************************** _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 14:30:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17322 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:30:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA06410; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:47:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA00119 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:38:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from send101.yahoomail.com (send101.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.87]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA00109 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:38:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990117193722.6176.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Received: from [209.52.33.103] by send101.yahoomail.com; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:37:22 PST Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:37:22 -0800 (PST) From: Glenda Hohmann Subject: H-COST: cartridge pleats To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Glenda Hohmann > - -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" > > I also did cartridge pleating for the first time and could have shot > myself for not doing it before! It's easy and I found the drape of the > skirt to be just what I was hoping it would do. I plan on doing it on > all my Italian rens from now on, too! [from V4n36] Now, my question would be: did you hand sew the skirt to the bodice, or did you do it by machine? And if you did it by machine, how were you able to keep the pleats from flattening out (if you did at all)? Or (assuming you did it by machine) did you start stitching from the center front of the bodice around to the back and just let the pleats flatten out as you went? Okay, I guess that's three questions, but I think you can see where I am going with this one... Katrynka Katrynka Chornovoloskaya (Glenda Hohmann) MoAS, Ramsgaard, An Tir (Kamloops, BC, Canada) == ***************************************** * Two things stand like stone: * * Kindness in another's trouble, * * Courage in your own. * ***************************************** _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 15:00:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17669 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:00:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA09000; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:17:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA02500 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:08:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA02494 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:08:10 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:08:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 23905 invoked from network); 17 Jan 1999 20:03:41 -0000 Received: from 104.64.3-6.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.231.64.104) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 1999 20:03:41 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990117120809.2b5f853e@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: cartridge pleats Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 11:37 AM 01/17/1999 -0800, Glenda Hohmann wrote: > >-Poster: Glenda Hohmann > >> - -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" >> >> I also did cartridge pleating for the first time and could have shot >> myself for not doing it before! It's easy and I found the drape of [snip] > >Now, my question would be: did you hand sew the skirt to the bodice, >or did you do it by machine? And if you did it by machine, how were >you able to keep the pleats from flattening out (if you did at all)? >Or (assuming you did it by machine) did you start stitching from the >center front of the bodice around to the back and just let the pleats >flatten out as you went? > >Okay, I guess that's three questions, but I think you can see where I >am going with this one... > >Katrynka > >Katrynka Chornovoloskaya (Glenda Hohmann) >MoAS, Ramsgaard, An Tir (Kamloops, BC, Canada) In order for the cartridge pleats to hang properly, you really need to sew them by hand. You *don't* want to flatten them out at all. Only the top of the fold is sewn to the bodice, the bottom can just hang free. Joan Jurancich aka Lady Dorothy (Hastings) Devereux [RPFN], mother [in-law] to Lady Essex joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 16:01:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18045 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 16:01:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA13929; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:18:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA06899 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:09:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from value.net (root@value.net [204.188.125.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA06894 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:08:57 -0700 (MST) From: koz@value.net Received: from kavvieP (op251.value.net [209.182.130.251]) by value.net (8.8.7/8.7.4) with SMTP id NAA16935 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:08:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901172108.NAA16935@value.net> To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:11:01 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Wintersilks Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.5.32.19990117073922.007a7100@onramp.i2k.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01c) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: koz@value.net Date sent: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:39:22 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Lynn Carpenter Subject: H-COST: Wintersilks Send reply to: h-costume@indra.com > > Has anyone dealt with them recently? I did an Altavista search to find the > URL > http://www.wintersilks.com/ > and the second article was this one, which said they were filing for > Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. The article is dated August 6, 1988. > http://www.mediacentral.com/Magazines/CatalogAge/Weekly/98/1998080602.htm > > Anyone know if they have their finances straightened out? > > Lynn ___________________________________________________ I believe my wife and I bought some things from wintersilks just last year...and I am sure that they sent us at least 2 new catalogs for Christmas sales and such. Hope this helps Michael _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 16:09:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18081 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 16:09:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA14746; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:26:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA07418 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:17:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA07399 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:17:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from gia-g (dialup742.serv.net [207.207.65.106]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA23700 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:17:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001601be425f$39f2eaa0$6a41cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: cartridge pleats Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:19:45 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Hi! No, the only thing I machine stitched on was the twill tape along the top edge of the skirt I cartridge pleated. I really was trying to do the thing 'by hand', so that's the only concession I made, for speed. I 'inherited' some white 2" wide twill tape which I machine long stitched on, folded the skirt top edge along the 'seam line' (about 5/8 ") and hand stitched the cartridge pleating stitches, using double strand of thread (quilters), beeswaxed for strength, making sure I had nice tails for pulling to make the pleats. My stitches were at about 1/2 " intervals to make a nice deep pleat. The first row about 1/4 inch down and the second row about another 1/4 down from the first row of pleating stitches. I used matching thread because I wanted to keep the pleating stitches in the garment for stability. I then hand stitched the pleats onto the finished bodice (by that I mean that the bodice was completely finished, even the waist seam; all seams were encased by the lining). I read Mistress Kat's instructions on how to do this in the FTSO years ago and was doing it from memory of those instructions...I have been trying to find my issue with the instructions but no luck yet. Hopefully I was close enough to how it was done! I didn't want the pleating to flatten out, and I knew that in order for me to get the 'full' pleating effect I wanted, I had to hand stitch it. This of course is only my opnion and others may not agree; that's ok... Gia/Giacinta costuming nut >Now, my question would be: did you hand sew the skirt to the bodice, >or did you do it by machine? And if you did it by machine, how were >you able to keep the pleats from flattening out (if you did at all)? >Or (assuming you did it by machine) did you start stitching from the >center front of the bodice around to the back and just let the pleats >flatten out as you went? > >Okay, I guess that's three questions, but I think you can see where I >am going with this one... > >Katrynka > >Katrynka Chornovoloskaya (Glenda Hohmann) >MoAS, Ramsgaard, An Tir (Kamloops, BC, Canada) > >== >***************************************** >* Two things stand like stone: * >* Kindness in another's trouble, * >* Courage in your own. * >***************************************** >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 17:01:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA18369 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 17:01:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA19391; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:19:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA11290 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:09:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA11283 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:09:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id IAA29875 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:39:26 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA09761; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:39:26 +1030 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:39:25 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Baa baa black sheep? In-Reply-To: <199901151508.HAA25762@smtp.pacifier.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Fri, 15 Jan 1999 kat@grendal.rain.com wrote: > > -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > > > > Any sheep that is not pure white is a "black sheep". And the colors range > > from grays and light browns to brown-black to reddish-browns. All these > > colors are natural and could have been found in medieval sheep. Of course, > > the white wool takes dyes much more clearly than naturally-colored wool, so > > it was more valuable. The "black" wools, of whatever shade, could well have > > been given to the poor. > > >From what I understand, when you are trying to get a really white > flock, the black sheep lambs became stew, sausage, lamb chops, etc. Actually I saw a thing about this on the telly last week. Modern sheep farmers (this report was focusing on merinos in particular) really, really hate black sheep of any degree of 'blackness', because the dark wool is so hard to dye a different colour. Even being in the same paddock they 'contaminate' the fleeces of the white sheep when they rub against them etc. A great big black hair in the middle of some wool you were trying to dye lemon yellow would be unfortunate, yes? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 20:33:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA19491 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:33:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA09315; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:51:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA27924 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:41:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.rdu.bellsouth.net (mail.rdu.bellsouth.net [205.152.32.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA27917 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:41:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from bellsouth.net (host-209-214-161-59.rdu.bellsouth.net [209.214.161.59]) by mail.rdu.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA23722 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:41:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36A2916B.3F818410@bellsouth.net> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:42:03 -0500 From: Renata McAdams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-bls40 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Renata McAdams What a fascinating piece of information! Did men during that period of time, also wear hats indoors (in addition to the fashion) because it was considered improper to expose the head? Interesting how customs change. During the 1950s when I was a little girl and until my dad passed away in 1980 (he was born in 1890), he (and other gents of his era) always wore a hat outside, but it was considered rude and in poor taste if one did not remove the hat when coming inside a house or church. And, tipping one's hat to a woman in greeting was considered the norm. Renata McAdams renatamc@bellsouth.net Raleigh, NC Deborah Pulliam wrote: > -Men's nightcaps, until the 19th century, were *not* worn for sleeping (bed > caps were), they were fashionable "undress" which meant they were worn at > home in informal situations, especially if the wearer habitually wore a wig > (they were worn well into the 19c though, when wigs were no longer worn.) > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 20:40:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA19550 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:39:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA10223; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:57:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA28549 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:47:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA28540 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:47:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from slave (BayArea56k535.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.135]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id RAA16331 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 17:47:51 -0800 Message-ID: <36A291C2.3473@netwiz.net> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 17:43:31 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic References: <000001be41ac$111dd260$a81fffd0@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi Hope H. Dunlap wrote: > > -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > There is a costume book for mid-19th Century California and > the far West, which I personally have not seen, so I don't > know if it includes Russian immigrant costume of the type > you want. > > But it is by Rickman, David W. and called, Costume Manual: > Guide to Clothing Worn in California and Far West ca. 1845. > nd. Sutter's Fort. detailed costume reconstruction: Euro & > Native American, Californio, 121 Costume plates b/w and > color, lg. 4to. notebook bound 202p. > Thanks, Hope, I will pass on the info. I assume middle-class Russian women would have worn the same clothing as any Western woman in the 19th c., but I'm guessing that hunter's or trader's wives would have worn more "peasant" type clothing. Embroidered blouses? babushkas?? As I said, the info isn't for me, and I assume the lady in question has some contact with Fort Ross as she is planning to attend the event. I don't think she's going for serious authenticity, just "dress up". Susan -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 20:45:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA19610 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:45:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA10875; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:03:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA29041 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:53:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA29031 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:53:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.103] (sdts10-103.znet.net [207.167.66.103]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id RAA16843 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 17:53:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 17:53:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000d01be4181$190fb900$7417ffd0@default> References: <4.1.19990114113105.00bc3830@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: RE: H-COST: 'baby walker' Elizabethan Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams According to "Yesterday's Children" Leading strings were also used so that adults could help little ones walk without falling. It indicated that prior to the 19th c, crawling was discouraged as "beast-like", so if possible children were pushed directly to walking using leading strings and walkers. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 20:55:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA19674 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:55:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA11590; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:12:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA00268 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:02:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.wenet.net (meat.hooked.net [206.80.6.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA00261 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:02:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from wenet.net (korea-138.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.225.138]) by smtp.wenet.net (8.9.0/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA21581 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:02:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A29741.3898C6F2@wenet.net> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:06:57 -0800 From: Lawrence Kincaid X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-DIAL (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Wintersilks References: <199901172108.NAA16935@value.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lawrence Kincaid I still get the Winter Silks catalogue in the mail but I havent bought anything from them in at least 3 years. The socks were two tight at the top and not streachy enough and seemed to rough as well as the jocky type underwear (a knit) was very rough. The neck openings on most of their long sleeved turtle necked shirts is not set forward just a front and back of the same pattern. I believe the designers are Asian and are doing the sizing for a smaller people population. My overall opinion is that not much thought goes into the designing but then knits make room for a lot of leeway. The company is honest and I love the state of Wisconsin. I was always going to write them about their fabrics and designs but never got around to it. I know that all these postings about Winter Silks are off topic but then I felt compelled put this info out. sincerly larry Kincaid koz@value.net wrote: > -Poster: koz@value.net > > Date sent: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 07:39:22 -0500 > To: h-costume-digest@indra.com > From: Lynn Carpenter > Subject: H-COST: Wintersilks > Send reply to: h-costume@indra.com > > > > > Has anyone dealt with them recently? I did an Altavista search to find the > > URL > > http://www.wintersilks.com/ > > and the second article was this one, which said they were filing for > > Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. The article is dated August 6, 1988. > > http://www.mediacentral.com/Magazines/CatalogAge/Weekly/98/1998080602.htm > > > > Anyone know if they have their finances straightened out? > > > > Lynn > ___________________________________________________ > > I believe my wife and I bought some things from wintersilks just last > year...and I am sure that they sent us at least 2 new catalogs for > Christmas sales and such. > > Hope this helps > > Michael > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 21:06:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA19780 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:06:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA12631; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:24:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA01746 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:14:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA01737 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:14:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.96.178.117] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 1024Cn-0006Vm-00; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:14:17 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990118021254.007036a8@mail.widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@mail.widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:12:54 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 12:28 PM 1/15/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Susan Fatemi > >Some time ago there was a thread about what Russian women >settlers at Fort Ross (Calif.) might have worn. I wasn't >interested at the time, but my boss's wife and daughter >want to "dress up" to go to some event there and he's >asked if I could find any info. on it. > I lent him my Tilke book (explaining how much it would >cost to replace it!) But if anyone has any info. >specific to Fort Ross, I'd sure appreciate it. >(I wallowed around in the archives, but couldn't find >what I wanted, sorry) > Hmm...an ex-member of this list did a bit of work on this very subject. He also has a very good book available through Sutter's Fort (or at least it was back when I was still in the Golden State). We have a member on the list now who works at the fort and may be able to help you with this. Or call the Fort Ross in Jenner and they can help you. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 21:10:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA19810 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:10:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA13219; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:28:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA02414 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:18:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA02409 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:18:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.58.165 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:18:00 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: WW II Help Kids clothing Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:18:45 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be4289$62c3bb60$aa14ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <2525128e.36a23570@aol.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" There's a terrific movie, made about 7 years back, on this subject, but darned if I can remember the name of it. Dad was away at war, and Mom and the kids left the city to avoid the bombing. The boy got sent to boarding school, while the girl and her mom stayed with relatives. It was filmed from the point of view of the boy. The costuming was good. My favorite scene in the whole movie, was when the boy went back to school from vacation and found it wasn't there anymore, just a smoking pile of rubble. The mothers in the audience were thinking, "Oh, gee, just a few hours different, and the children would have been bombed, too." The boy in the movie, however, had a different take on it. He rolled his eyes heavenwards, and in a heartfelt shudder that came from his toes, he cried, "Thank-you, Hitler!" He wore woolen shorts in winter and a matching wool jacket and cap with brim. Sometimes a knitted balaclava. Mom wore frocks, knee length, with cardigans. They seemed cold a good deal, and did without a great deal in creature comforts. Their home in the country was snug and safe and warm, full of life, love, diversions, and fun, but of course the adults were often quite worried about their loved ones in the cities and the war, but they did not share this with the children. I wish I could remember the name of the movie for you, because your children would appreciate it. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Gerekr@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 2:10 PM To: h-costume@indra.com; h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: WW II Help Kids clothing -Poster: Gerekr@aol.com On 1/15/99 11:35 AM you wrote: >-Poster: Melanie Wilson > >Has anyone any pictures of Children in Britain in World War 2 they could >scan and send me for my daughters school project ? > >Also any kids games & special memories of food ? > >Thanks > >Mel I just happen to have at home a book from the children's section of the public library called "After the war was over" by the illustrator Michael Foreman. It's his personal recollections of the period, mostly in watercolor but with a few photos thrown in, in which the children's or other clothing corresponds 100% to that in the illustrations... The point being that Mr Foreman has also written an "award-winning" book, titled "War Boy", which is about himself during the war years. If in the same style, that might be a good place to look for all three, clothes, games and food. I'm pretty sure both of these were published in GB first, as he still lives there, so that might be of some assistance, if you have time to collect them. About food, my library also has recently received "Food and Feasts Between the Wars", a children's series, no idea how available where you are, that might be pertinent; it would have factual reproductions mostly, vs. illustrations, as it follows the other titles in the series I've seen (F&F in the Middle ages, Ren, with the Vikings, Victorians, etc. as I recall). Based on Vikings and MA books, the text may not be 100%, but the illustrations are fine. Good luck, Chimene/Patsy ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 21:14:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA19832 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:14:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA13743; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:32:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA02898 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:22:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA02892 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:22:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.202.191.26] (ppp-max1-26.grin.net [208.202.191.26]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA07299 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:22:48 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36A2916B.3F818410@bellsouth.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:26:50 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@grin.net Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Deborah Pulliam wrote: > -Men's nightcaps, until the 19th century, were *not* worn for sleeping (bed > caps were), they were fashionable "undress" which meant they were worn at > home in informal situations, especially if the wearer habitually wore a wig > (they were worn well into the 19c though, when wigs were no longer worn.) Renata McAdams responded: >What a fascinating piece of information! Did men during that period of >time, also >wear hats indoors (in addition to the fashion) because it was considered >improper >to expose the head? When you consider that most houses in the past had much poorer heating than we have in the Western world since the mid-century (a few fireplaces here and there, and bed-warming-pans), and considering that many wig-wearers had little head hair, it makes sense that men would wear a head-covering indoors, other reasons aside (such as "morality"). Renata McAdams continued: >Interesting how customs change. During the 1950s when I was a little girl and >until my dad passed away in 1980 (he was born in 1890), he (and other gents of >his era) always wore a hat outside, but it was considered rude and in poor >taste >if one did not remove the hat when coming inside a house or church. And, >tipping >one's hat to a woman in greeting was considered the norm. Customs often change, albeit sometimes reluctantly, as technology changes. Of course, women wore (and some still wear) hats in church, although i believe it is generally considered proper to take them off indoors otherwise, unless one is Hedda Hopper :-) Hats are often more a "fashion thing" nowadays, except when worn to protect one from the elements out-of-doors. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 21:22:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA19912 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:22:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA14526; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:40:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA03731 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:30:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA03721 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:30:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.103] (sdts10-68.znet.net [207.167.66.68]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id SAA19796 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:30:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:30:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990117.093243.3302.1.kiri5@juno.com> References: <199901171251.FAA04287@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan sites Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >Are there any Elizabethan or Renaissance sites out there? I have some 16th c German info on my site and other Cool 16th c links from the link at the bottom of the page. http://www.znet.com/~savaskan/germans/ Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 21:22:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA19914 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:22:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA14542; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:40:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA03753 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:30:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA03733 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:30:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.103] (sdts10-68.znet.net [207.167.66.68]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id SAA19804 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:30:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:30:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990114173301.00924970@mail.interlog.com> References: <006201be3f5a$b63cd880$6d63b5cf@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: On the subject of children & puzzles Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >Isn't the outfit on Giovanni de Medici strange for a child? You can see leg! > >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/b/bronzino/portrait/g_medici.jpg > >Cheers, >Danielle This kind of short doublet or even little waffenrocks seem to be pretty common in the early 16th c in Germany and Italy. In the summer most kids in that age group seem to run around in short sleeved white shirts about that length (what I'd call short tunic length) and not much else. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 21:29:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA19962 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:29:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA15096; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:47:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA04364 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:37:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA04355 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:37:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.96.178.117] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 1024Z8-0007Ir-00; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:37:23 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990118023600.00723cd8@mail.widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@mail.widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:36:00 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: RE: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 10:09 PM 1/16/99 -0500, you wrote: > >While doing a search on the Bookfinder web site for this (alas, they >don't have it), I came across another title that sounded like a >possibility - Early California Costumes 1769 - 1850 by Margaret >Gilbert MacKey and Louis Pinkney Sooy. Not having seen the >book, I likewise can't say if it covers Russian immigrant clothing. > > > There really was not a lot of Russian immigrant clothing to be seen at Ft Ross. Most of the women present were not Russians at all but Meti (as I recall). The Fort was built to gather otter skins, not to settle Russian California. Most of the real work at Fort Ross was done by these indians, including the hunting of the otters. There were women there, but they were mostly the indian wives of the indian and russian employees of the fort. I recall that at least one of the leaders of the Fort brought his Russian wife, but they Russian women were far and few between. (Regardless of this fact a number of female participants of Ft. Ross' living history day wear a russian peasent gown which has a name that I forget. Some of these re-enactors also wear standard european clothing. The Fort used to dress at about 1835, but I think they changed there year some few years ago. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 21:47:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA20101 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:47:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA17011; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:05:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA05941 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:55:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA05934 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:55:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.96.178.117] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 1024qe-00005b-00; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:55:28 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990118025404.006cfe00@mail.widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@mail.widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:54:04 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 08:42 PM 1/17/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Renata McAdams > >What a fascinating piece of information! Did men during that period of time, also >wear hats indoors (in addition to the fashion) because it was considered improper >to expose the head? > >Interesting how customs change. During the 1950s when I was a little girl and >until my dad passed away in 1980 (he was born in 1890), he (and other gents of >his era) always wore a hat outside, but it was considered rude and in poor taste >if one did not remove the hat when coming inside a house or church. And, tipping >one's hat to a woman in greeting was considered the norm. > There was no social requirement to remove one's hat simply because one was indoors in the 18th Century. Several prints document this as well as the Minuet, which uses the hat as a prop. It was required that hats be removed in Church and Court, though, at least according to Virginia law Jews and Quakers were exempt from this activity in court, in light of their religious believes. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 21:47:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA20105 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:47:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA17093; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:05:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA05989 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:55:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA05975 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:55:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id NAA32182 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:25:43 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA12077; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:25:41 +1030 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:25:41 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Sun, 17 Jan 1999 lilinah@grin.net wrote: > > Renata McAdams responded: > >What a fascinating piece of information! Did men during that period of > >time, also > >wear hats indoors (in addition to the fashion) because it was considered > >improper > >to expose the head? > > When you consider that most houses in the past had much poorer heating than > we have in the Western world since the mid-century (a few fireplaces here > and there, and bed-warming-pans), and considering that many wig-wearers had > little head hair, it makes sense that men would wear a head-covering > indoors, other reasons aside (such as "morality"). You quite often see illuminations of mediaeval couples in bed wearing nothing but their hats. Sometimes they just have a bit of linen wrapped around their heads, sometimes full on fashionable headdresses. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 22:42:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20389 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:42:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA23007; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:00:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA10608 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:50:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA10603 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:50:36 -0700 (MST) From: Gerekr@aol.com Received: from Gerekr@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ILMVa07010 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:48:44 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:48:44 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: A&E Unmentionables Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Claris Emailer v2.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gerekr@aol.com So, the world skips directly from Rome to the 15th C.? Good thing we usually multi-task while the tube is on anyway. Chimene & Gerek disappointed but not surprised _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 22:50:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20447 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:50:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA23803; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:08:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA11214 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:58:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA11209 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:58:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id OAA00606 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:28:36 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA12592; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:28:35 +1030 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:28:34 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: A&E Unmentionables In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Sun, 17 Jan 1999 Gerekr@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: Gerekr@aol.com > > So, the world skips directly from Rome to the 15th C.? Good thing we > usually multi-task while the tube is on anyway. Well it does in Italy anyway....few people seem interested in what happened there between Rome and the Renaissance *grin* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 22:50:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20451 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:50:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA23752; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:08:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA11195 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:58:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA11182 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:58:28 -0700 (MST) From: Seton1355@aol.com Received: from Seton1355@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id CSAa003482 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:57:42 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <70b16144.36a2b136@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:57:42 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 236 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Seton1355@aol.com >> You quite often see illuminations of mediaeval couples in bed wearing nothing but their hats>> Why do you think this was? Were they painted right after or before making love? It was too cold (most of the time) to hang about naked. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 22:56:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20483 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:56:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA24286; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:15:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA11663 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:05:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA11651 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:05:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from tymeportal.com (client-151-196-125-100.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.100]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA22099 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:04:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36A2B2E0.575D817D@tymeportal.com> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:04:48 -0500 From: Anah X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Joy Trim References: <199901161845.NAA16566@jefferson.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Anah I'm trying to find this place...Help? I kno it's in deleware, yet when I call to TRY and get a # I get "what city"? I have NO idea! My ignorance is showing here I'm afraid. Help? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 22:59:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20496 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:59:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA24446; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:17:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA11832 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:07:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA11826 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:07:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id OAA00816 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:37:01 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA12660; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:37:01 +1030 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:37:00 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps In-Reply-To: <70b16144.36a2b136@aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Sun, 17 Jan 1999 Seton1355@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: Seton1355@aol.com > > >> You quite often see illuminations of mediaeval couples in bed wearing > nothing but their hats>> > > Why do you think this was? Were they painted right after or before making > love? It was too cold (most of the time) to hang about naked. I don't know, though it mostly seems to be married couples so depicted. I've seen lovers drawn lying on a bed fully clothed. Also in the Museum of London Dress Accessories book (I think) there's a reproduction of a quite blatant drawing of two people making love behind a market stall. Both are fully clothed (apart from the necessary skirts up, pants down). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 23:25:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA20641 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:25:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA26544; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:43:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA13845 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:33:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA13838 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:33:15 -0700 (MST) From: PiranhaBB@aol.com Received: from PiranhaBB@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id XMYMa04796 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:32:36 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:32:36 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Hope and Glory: WW II Movie Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac sub 85 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: PiranhaBB@aol.com Hope and Glory was a nice movie depiction of middle class England during WW II. Best regards, Lisa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 23:36:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA20698 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:36:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA27591; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:54:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA14816 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:44:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.well.com (smtp.well.com [206.80.6.147]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA14783 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:44:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mouse-s-box (spain-39.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.39]) by smtp.well.com (8.8.6/8.8.4) with SMTP id UAA13060 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:44:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901180444.UAA13060@smtp.well.com> X-Sender: mouse@mail.well.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:44:28 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lee Carter Subject: H-COST: WWII Help-- Kids Clothing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lee Carter Another good movie is National Velvet and Mrs. Miniver. Shows what kids wore before and during the War. The modern remake of "Goodbye Mr. Chips" with Michael Caine and Petula Clark is very good in the clothing dept. Lee Carter _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 17 23:46:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA20754 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:46:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA28628; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:04:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA15494 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:54:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from send205.yahoomail.com (web301.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.183]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id VAA15486 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:54:16 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990118045438.5230.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Received: from [129.237.24.104] by web301.yahoomail.com; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:54:38 PST Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:54:38 -0800 (PST) From: Margretta de Vries Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan sites To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margretta de Vries ---Julie Adams wrote: > I have some 16th c German info on my site and other > Cool 16th c links from the link at the bottom of the > page. > http://www.znet.com/~savaskan/germans/ Julie, Thanks so much for sharing this! The information you've compiled is amazing, and I highly recommend that anyone who hasn't gone there yet should definitely do so!!! == Margretta de Vries _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 01:33:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA22090 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:33:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA07465; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:50:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA22845 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:40:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA22817; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:40:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-79-30.s30.tnt5.rcm.erols.com [207.172.79.30]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA28048; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:40:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000101be42ad$748fa920$1e4faccf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: "costume newsgroup" Subject: H-COST: Handbook of German Costume Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:40:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" I just gave a makeover to one of my websites, Handbuch der Deutschen Tracht (The Handbook of German Dress). It is located at http://www.costumegallery.com/germbook.htm This is a German historic costume book printed in 1892. I placed online costume images from 1200 - late 1800s (about 150 images). There are three main areas, the color plates, hair & headdress (my favorite), and poor people. The enlargement links are all functional. Many of the enlargements are grainy but I do not intend to re-scan them until this summer. This book was one of my first big projects when I began my website in 1995. I have learned a lot since first scanning these images. But the site is fun to learn from. Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 01:33:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA22094 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:33:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA07599; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:51:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA22924 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:41:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA22912 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:41:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.152] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1028Mx-0003Ui-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:41:04 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990117152006.00be0500@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990117152006.00be0500@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:25:31 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: undergarments In-Reply-To: <19990117193932.7619.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I >also have a Vogue bustier pattern (9273 - I think it is still current) >and view B has fitted cups on it with an integrated strap (no seam >attachment to the top of the cup) that I am going to alter (shorten) >and turn into a bra pattern. I got that pattern from Vogue, then spent over an hour re-fitting it. The cups are too close together AND too small. My fitter and I had to redesign as we went. >There are patterns available out there for making your own bras, >panties, and other lingeree. All in my teenager's size... Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 01:33:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA22098 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:33:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA07605; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:51:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA22928 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:41:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA22918 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:41:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.152] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1028Mz-0003Ui-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:41:05 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990117152650.00bda2e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:43:11 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: corset/bra support idea Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows A friend of mine, who is similarly built and also makes Victorian corsets, suggested using a solid bone in the center front of a corset/bra garment instead of underwires. She was talking about the large kind of bone you can salvage out of those leg braces you can sometimes find in thrift stores. It would be like the 1700's/early 1800's solid busks instead of like the later 1800's front-opening ones. The busk idea ought to work. The anatomy would be supported from the center like a suspension bridge is supported. It would be still necessary to bone the sides and back to prevent wrinkling, but that's OK with me. It might need straps to keep it from shifting, but not seriously load-bearing ones. I think I'd also want to put a hook placket where I could reach it from the front, so I could get in and out by myself. Maybe on the side somewhere? Anybody got any opinions on this idea? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 01:33:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA22102 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:33:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA07603; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:51:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA22923 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:41:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA22906 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:41:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.152] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1028Mw-0003Ui-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:41:02 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990117150709.00bc9880@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:17:31 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: cartridge pleats In-Reply-To: <001601be425f$39f2eaa0$6a41cfcf@gia-g> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >... I knew that in order for me >to get the 'full' pleating effect I wanted, I had to hand stitch it. This >of course is only my opnion and others may not agree; that's ok... How can one do cartridge-pleating on a home sewing machine? My presser foot doesn't lift high enough to allow it. And even if I removed the presser foot to get more clearance, the machine would choke on the thickness. (It was bad enough when I felled the seams on my tent.) Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 02:13:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA22301 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 02:13:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA10973; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:31:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA25299 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:20:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA25294 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:20:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([12.66.2.132]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990118072011.FCP16779@LOCALNAME> for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:20:11 +0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Connie Carroll" Organization: Home For Deranged Bunnies To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 02:18:24 +0000 Subject: Re: H-COST: A&E Unmentionables Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.30) Message-Id: <19990118072011.FCP16779@LOCALNAME> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Connie Carroll" > > So, the world skips directly from Rome to the 15th C.? Good thing > > we usually multi-task while the tube is on anyway. > > Well it does in Italy anyway....few people seem interested in what > happened there between Rome and the Renaissance *grin* This was an interesting show but it has a lot of gaps.Also errors. The main one that comes to mind was when they talked about the bra that Jane Russell wore for The OutLaw. A&E had just run thier biograpghy show on Jane Russel where it told about Howard Hughs designing an airo-dynamic bra for Russell but she didn't like it. She didn't wear it and never told Hughs so aparently couldn't tell the difference. That was funny. Kassandra NickKraken JUST CALL ME MISTRESS BUNNY _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 02:28:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA22374 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 02:28:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA11899; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:46:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA26016 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:36:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA26006 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:36:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.161] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1029EO-0004L6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:36:17 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990117232128.00bd8940@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:33:18 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19990118023600.00723cd8@mail.widomaker.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows (Regardless of this fact a number of female >participants of Ft. Ross' living history day wear a russian peasent gown >which has a name that I forget. Sarafan is the name of the dress. It looks like an armpit-high skirt with shoulder straps, and a buttoned front closure all the way down. It is cleverly made from a large half circle, and it looks cone-shaped when worn. My copy of Tilke has one. The head scarf thing we now call a babushka (I don't remember the name for it) is usually worn over another thing sort of like a cap. This 'cap' is sometimes large and uncaplike, and encrusted with seed pearls in extreme cases of peasant wealth. The name I have for the 'cap' is kokochnik, tho I think there are many other names for it as the shape varies. This only applies for Russian peasants living in Russia. I don't know what they really wear at Ft. Ross because I have never played there. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 02:50:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA22546 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 02:50:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA12874; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:08:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA26901 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:58:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f262.hotmail.com [207.82.251.153]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id AAA26896 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:58:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 21746 invoked by uid 0); 18 Jan 1999 07:51:16 -0000 Message-ID: <19990118075116.21745.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 205.161.179.206 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:51:16 PST X-Originating-IP: [205.161.179.206] From: "karrissa david" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 02:51:16 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "karrissa david" >The head scarf thing we now call a babushka That is wierd. I was taught that Babushka means grandmother. Karrissa ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 03:31:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA28426 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 03:31:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA14247; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:50:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA28750 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:39:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA28722 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:39:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-25.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.25]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id AAA11578 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:39:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A28415.1526FEA0@pacbell.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:45:09 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Tea Darkening References: <199901161916.OAA18940@jefferson.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, I found some wonderful raw silk in a bright yellow and I'd like to darken it to a golden color. I'm not a tea drinker, but coffee is always at hand. Is coffee an acceptable substitute for tea darkening? Do I need to add salt as a mordant? Should I use a vinegar bath to set the color afterward? Thank you in advance, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 03:33:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA28436 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 03:33:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA14322; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:52:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA28861 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:42:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA28854 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:42:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.189] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102AG3-00054v-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:42:03 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990118003559.00bd53e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:41:55 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic In-Reply-To: <19990118075116.21745.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >>The head scarf thing we now call a babushka > > >That is wierd. I was taught that Babushka means grandmother. It does. We now call that scarf by that name because after a while it became associated with grandmothers. By the 1950's almost nobody else wore them. The scarf thing's real name is something else. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 03:46:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA28523 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 03:46:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA15292; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 02:05:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA29589 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:54:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from scorpion.netspace.net.au (scorpion.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.106]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA29577 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:54:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by scorpion.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id TAA25252 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:54:59 +1100 (EST) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t2-80.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.192.80]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id TAA12055 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:55:05 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199901180855.TAA12055@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Tea Darkening Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:02:26 +1100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" Hey, list, On the subject of colouring with coffee... An old friend was a navy officer stationed in Darwin (northern Australia) during the early years of the war in the Pacific. When Darwin was bombed it was realised that the sailors needed something other than their whites so they would be harder to see. Seeing that new clothing would be some time in coming, my friend tells me that he and his fellow were ordered to boil their clothes in coffee. So, the answer is, yes. As an aside, I used the coffee suggestion to take the sting out of some fabric for a monk's robe some years back and it worked well (I spooned a whole heap of it into my big old washing machine and ran it through a very hot cycle...I guess you could boil on the stove or in a copper (a boiling drum, not a policeman). I used salt afterwards but, having no non-salt test, cannot say whether it really aided the process - can't hurt, though. -C. > Is coffee an acceptable substitute for tea darkening? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 04:04:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA28629 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 04:04:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA16127; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 02:23:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA00538 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 02:12:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA00533 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 02:12:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.189] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102Ajm-0005Mf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:12:47 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990118011025.00bd2df0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:12:37 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Tea Darkening In-Reply-To: <36A28415.1526FEA0@pacbell.net> References: <199901161916.OAA18940@jefferson.patriot.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I found some wonderful raw silk in a bright yellow and I'd like to darken it >to a golden color. I'm not a tea drinker, but coffee is always at hand. > >Is coffee an acceptable substitute for tea darkening? I am told that caffeine free tea is better, as it is better for the cloth (no acid). I would therefore recommend caffeine free coffee, it having no other use IMHO. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 07:06:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA29514 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:06:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA21010; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 05:25:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA04631 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 05:14:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from m4.boston.juno.com (m4.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.198]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA04626 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 05:14:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alysea@juno.com) by m4.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DY9BQ9G5; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:14:21 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:15:02 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Tea Darkening Message-ID: <19990118.071537.3678.1.Alysea@juno.com> References: <199901161916.OAA18940@jefferson.patriot.net> <4.1.19990118011025.00bd2df0@pop.slip.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6-36 From: alysea@juno.com (Karen J Farris) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: alysea@juno.com (Karen J Farris) It also depends on the color you are trying to achieve. Tea will have pink overtones, coffee more yellow. I use coffee more than tea. Karen Farris On Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:12:37 -0800 Carolyn Kayta Barrows writes: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > >>I found some wonderful raw silk in a bright yellow and I'd like to >darken it >>to a golden color. I'm not a tea drinker, but coffee is always at >hand. >> >>Is coffee an acceptable substitute for tea darkening? > >I am told that caffeine free tea is better, as it is better for the >cloth >(no acid). I would therefore recommend caffeine free coffee, it >having no >other use IMHO. > > >Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 07:43:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA29726 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:43:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA23198; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:02:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA06465 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 05:51:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from send501.yahoomail.com (web502.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id FAA06459 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 05:51:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990118125148.18632.rocketmail@send501.yahoomail.com> Received: from [209.151.109.17] by web502.yahoomail.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 04:51:48 PST Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 04:51:48 -0800 (PST) From: Calvin Girvin Subject: H-COST: Benedictine Habit To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Calvin Girvin I am searching for information on constructing an authentic Benedictine monastic habit as commonly worn by monks in Northern Europe during the nineteenth century. Any information you can direct me to will be greatly appreciated. Cal _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 08:19:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA29923 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:19:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA24662; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:38:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA08587 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:27:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA08580 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:27:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.187 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 05:27:16 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Hope and Glory: WW II Movie Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:13:57 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be42e6$e270b0e0$bb17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Thanks, Lisa, this was the movie I was thinking of. I described the scene where the little boy cries "Thank you, Hitler!" to my 9-year-old, and it was something he could really relate to! Off to the video store to rent it now! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of PiranhaBB@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 11:33 PM To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Hope and Glory: WW II Movie -Poster: PiranhaBB@aol.com Hope and Glory was a nice movie depiction of middle class England during WW II. Best regards, Lisa ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 08:29:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA29973 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:29:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA25207; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:48:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA09294 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:37:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA09289 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:37:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.137 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 05:36:59 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: W.W.II Help-- Kids Clothing Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:40:15 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be42e8$3eefc760$bb17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <199901180444.UAA13060@smtp.well.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I saw National Velvet, and it is terrific for this. Haven't seen Mrs. Miniver, but I understand it is also a classic. Try a search on http://www.metacrawler.com, the search engine which combines several search engines, for these movies, children in W.W.II, etc. Your local library may have magazines and newspapers in their stacks or on microfilm dating back to the W.W.II years, and these would be very interesting for your children. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Lee Carter Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 11:44 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: WWII Help-- Kids Clothing -Poster: Lee Carter Another good movie is National Velvet and Mrs. Miniver. Shows what kids wore before and during the War. The modern remake of "Goodbye Mr. Chips" with Michael Caine and Petula Clark is very good in the clothing dept. Lee Carter ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 08:48:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA30081 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:48:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA26211; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:07:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA10336 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:56:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA10330 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:56:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip192.denver8.co.pub-ip.psi.net [38.31.4.192]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA18821 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 05:56:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A33E8E.4DC04A44@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:00:46 -0700 From: Mary Denise Smith Organization: Costume & Dressmaker Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Benedictine Habit References: <19990118125148.18632.rocketmail@send501.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mary Denise Smith I would contact you nearest Benedictine convent or abbey. Call your diocesan office and ask where they are. When I was in high school in Los Angeles in the '60s, the Mother Superior of my convent school was the consultant for the Benedictine habits worn in the movie version of The Sound of Music. Of course, all this presumes you are doing honest, scholarly work and not making some Grade B film of "Lusty Nuns". Mary Denise Smith _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 08:54:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA30115 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:54:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA26591; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:13:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA10702 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:02:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net (monsoon.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id HAA10694 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:02:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 12372 invoked from network); 18 Jan 1999 14:00:23 -0000 Received: from userb194.uk.uudial.com (HELO ) (193.149.71.177) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 1999 14:00:23 -0000 Message-ID: <36A3AD66.2B56@dial.pipex.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:53:42 -0800 From: Viv Watkins X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Wayward Women Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Viv Watkins I have just come across a review in the current 'Times Literary Supplement', of a book called "Ladies Errant: Wayward women and social order in early modern Italy" by Deanna Shemek. It discusses social attitudes to various non-conformist women in Rennaisance Italy and, includes a couple of chapters on prostitutes. The review does not mention costume but it might be worth a look. It is an American publication - Drake University Press, and Amazon have the paperback at 18 dollars - it is as much in pounds in England! Your books are so much cheaper than ours - sigh! The ISBN is 0 8223 2167X. If anyone does read it - please let us have a proper costume-related review! Best wishes. Viv. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 09:28:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA30294 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:28:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA29454; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:47:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA13756 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:36:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA13746 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:36:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([12.66.2.149]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990118143558.FJQD23534@LOCALNAME> for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:35:58 +0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Connie Carroll" Organization: Home For Deranged Bunnies To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:34:10 +0000 Subject: Re: H-COST: Tea Darkening Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.30) Message-Id: <19990118143558.FJQD23534@LOCALNAME> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Connie Carroll" I'm sure I read somewhere that coloring fabric with tea/coffee would age the fabric more plus make the fabric more susceptible to damage Kassandra NickKraken > -Poster: alysea@juno.com (Karen J Farris) > > It also depends on the color you are trying to achieve. Tea will > have pink overtones, coffee more yellow. I use coffee more than tea. > > Karen Farris > > On Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:12:37 -0800 Carolyn Kayta Barrows > writes: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > > >>I found some wonderful raw silk in a bright > yellow and I'd like to >darken it >>to a golden color. I'm not a > tea drinker, but coffee is always at >hand. >> >>Is coffee an > acceptable substitute for tea darkening? > >I am told that caffeine > free tea is better, as it is better for the >cloth >(no acid). I > would therefore recommend caffeine free coffee, it >having no >other > use IMHO. > > >Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with > the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at > http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO > [654-5866] > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with > the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME JUST CALL ME MISTRESS BUNNY _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 09:36:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA30342 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:36:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA00432; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:55:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA14625 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:44:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA14615 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:44:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip157.an1-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.12.157]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA20119 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:44:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A33B5B.382B6694@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:47:08 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: A&E Unmentionables References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson I have to admit that I couldn't watch more than about the first five minutes of this: after they'd referred three different times to underclothing being fetishized in the Victorian era and shown eighteenth-century illustrations each time, I turned it off. Do I gather from your comments that it didn't get better? Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 09:41:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA30369 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:41:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA01186; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:01:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA15323 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:49:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA15316 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:49:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip157.an1-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.12.157]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA23779 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:49:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A33CAA.B9E357D@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:52:43 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic References: <19990118075116.21745.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson karrissa david wrote: > > > >The head scarf thing we now call a babushka > > That is wierd. I was taught that Babushka means grandmother. > > My understanding is that it's used for both, presumably since older women were more likely to wear that style of head scarf. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 10:06:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA30531 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:06:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA03137; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:25:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA18107 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:14:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.texoma.net (vmailer@mail.texoma.net [209.151.96.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA18089 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:14:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from cal (ppp-151-100-076.texoma.net [209.151.100.76]) by mail.texoma.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DECECD437F; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:14:21 -0600 (CST) From: "Cal Girvin" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Benedictine Habit Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:19:19 -0600 Message-ID: <001201be42f5$ec878e00$0400a8c0@cal> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <36A33E8E.4DC04A44@earthlink.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Cal Girvin" Mary Denise, thank you for your assistance. Cal > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Mary Denise Smith > Sent: Monday, January 18, 1999 8:01 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Benedictine Habit > > > > -Poster: Mary Denise Smith > > I would contact you nearest Benedictine convent or abbey. Call > your diocesan office and ask where > they are. > > When I was in high school in Los Angeles in the '60s, the Mother > Superior of my convent school was > the consultant for the Benedictine habits worn in the movie > version of The Sound of Music. > > Of course, all this presumes you are doing honest, scholarly work > and not making some Grade B film > of "Lusty Nuns". > > Mary Denise Smith > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 10:17:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA30601 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:17:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA04342; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:37:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA19601 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:26:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from fw2.roguewave.com (firewall-user@fw2.roguewave.com [208.151.233.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA19596 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:26:11 -0700 (MST) Received: by fw2.roguewave.com; id HAA25662; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:21:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com(10.68.4.36) via SMTP by net.indra.com, id smtpd025659; Mon Jan 18 07:21:38 1999 Received: by cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:27:07 -0800 Message-ID: From: Betsy Perry To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: A&E Unmentionables Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:27:00 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Betsy Perry > Do I > gather from your comments that it didn't get better? > Lauri It didn't. After 20 minutes of shouting at the TV set, I turned it off. You missed the wonderful corset collage -- discussing 16th-century corsets while cross-cutting between 18th-century and 19th-century corsets. Oh, and they propagated the iron-corset-as-everyday-wear myth, too. My husband commented, "This is the most content-free TV I've ever seen." It was very obviously a pretext to run modern girlie photographs. (How _do_ they airbrush the nipples out of video images?) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 10:23:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA30631 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:23:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA04949; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:43:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA20349 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:32:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from svpal.svpal.org (suetoo@svpal.svpal.org [204.118.32.56]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA20344; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:32:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (suetoo@localhost) by svpal.svpal.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id HAA09114; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:30:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:30:22 -0800 (PST) From: Sue Toorans To: h-costume@indra.com cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Wintersilks In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990117073922.007a7100@onramp.i2k.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sue Toorans On Sun, 17 Jan 1999, Lynn Carpenter wrote: > > -Poster: Lynn Carpenter > > "Matt Dragonfly Drury" wrote: > > > >>You can mail order silk underwear, both men's and women's, from > >>Wintersilks, > > > > > >Satisfied customer as well. Our order was lost days before we were going up > >to DC from Orlando (brr), and they shipped a replacement with enough time > >for us to enjoy them. > > Has anyone dealt with them recently? I did an Altavista search to find the I have. And they just sent me another catalog within the last couple of weeks. > URL > http://www.wintersilks.com/ > and the second article was this one, which said they were filing for > Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. The article is dated August 6, 1988. > http://www.mediacentral.com/Magazines/CatalogAge/Weekly/98/1998080602.htm > > Anyone know if they have their finances straightened out? > > Lynn > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > Sue I am *NOT* a rabid feminist! I had my shots last year. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 10:45:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA30764 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:45:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA07156; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA23423 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:53:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from pop.idsi.net (root@pop.idsi.net [208.195.228.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA23402 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:53:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from chanty (16-ta06wf.idsi.net [208.201.30.150]) by pop.idsi.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA14581 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:53:20 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990118105246.009227a0@pop.idsi.net> X-Sender: chanty@pop.idsi.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:54:45 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chantal Pecourt Subject: RE: H-COST: A&E Unmentionables In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Chantal Pecourt I agree It was the most content free tv show I have seen in a long time. I was rather dissapointed.I had expected more of the history and evolution of underware from early middle ages through today, but alas, it was not so. Perhaps the TV execs thought we would not be able to pay attention to something like that :-) > (How >_do_ they airbrush the nipples out of video images?) I was wondering the same thing!!! Chantal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 11:05:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA30870 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:05:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA10080; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:25:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA26614 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:13:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA26593 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:13:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA17761 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:05:14 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:05:12 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Joy Trim In-Reply-To: <36A2B2E0.575D817D@tymeportal.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > -Poster: Anah > > I'm trying to find this place...Help? I kno it's in deleware, yet when > I call to TRY and get a # I get "what city"? > You dont mean JAy Trims in NY, by any chance, do you? Sylvia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 11:11:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA30900 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:11:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA11032; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:31:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA27643 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:19:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA27614 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:19:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from tymeportal.com (client-151-196-125-86.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.86]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA16851 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:19:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36A35F0C.52464AB5@tymeportal.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:19:24 -0500 From: Anah X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Joy Trim References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Anah no, Joy trim in Delaware, but I kept getting asked "what city" I couldn't tell them. but, it's at 212 west 9th Street in Wilmington DE the phone # is 302-654-4108 also, I was given another way to find things, so that helped immensely. www.switchboard.com Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > > -Poster: Anah > > > > I'm trying to find this place...Help? I kno it's in deleware, yet when > > I call to TRY and get a # I get "what city"? > > > You dont mean JAy Trims in NY, by any chance, do you? > > Sylvia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 11:23:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA30967 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:23:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA12538; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:43:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA29645 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:31:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from ash.shu.ac.uk (pp@ash.shu.ac.uk [143.52.2.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA29616 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:31:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from ntlupus.shu.ac.uk by ash.shu.ac.uk with inbound ESMTP (local); Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:31:33 +0000 Received: by ntlupus.shu.ac.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BE4300.09A5E2C0@ntlupus.shu.ac.uk>; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:31:45 -0000 Message-ID: From: "Chandler, Sally" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Silk Cords Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:34:35 -0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 9 TEXT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Chandler, Sally" I want to make some silk cords and braids for the 15th century. I have no problem getting hold of the silk but don't know whether I should get the shiny, smooth sort or the softer looking, slightly fluffy sort. Does anyone know what is authentic for the period? Many thanks, Sally Ann _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 11:42:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA31087 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:42:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA14163; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:02:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA02524 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:50:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA02500 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:50:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p22.directcon.net [206.170.184.71]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA05287 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:45:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:45:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901181645.IAA05287@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: WW II Help Kids clothing Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 09:18 PM 1/17/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >There's a terrific movie, made about 7 years back, on this >subject, but darned if I can remember the name of it. "Hope and Glory". Yes, it's a fabulous movie! Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 12:26:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31363 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:26:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA19111; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:46:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA09911 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:34:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net (crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA09887 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:34:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from alt1 (sdn-ar-001dcwashP117.dialsprint.net [168.191.20.77]) by crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA01883 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:34:34 -0800 (PST) From: "Allison Thurman" To: Subject: H-COST: A&E unmentionables Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:37:00 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2212 (4.71.2419.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Allison Thurman" i agree that the show is not all it could be - my biggest peeve is that it showed too much modern stuff, and besides the roman/15th c. gap, little was discussed about what wwI era women wore if they werent wearing steel. but what can you expect in 2 hours? i did like that they covered the marketing aspects, and with tv you do get to see how some of the more complicated items moved in situ. a decent try, imho. personally im pleased that a&e networks finally did a show about costume. im a frequent watcher of a&e and the history channel and this is the first time ive seen ANYTHING about it - history of guns, warfare, toys, holidays, food....but not clothing. i actually sent them a feedback email asking for more of the same! did anyone get this on tape? my vcr somehow taped static. please email me privately if you did, id like a copy! if anyone else wants to email a&e with commendations/gripes, the url is: http://www.4cities.com/cgi-perl/rfr.cgi?l=http://www.aetv.com/index2.html allison p.s. elizabeth I (or anyone else) DIDNT really wear iron corsets did they? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 12:47:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31479 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:47:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA23257; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:07:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA16158 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:55:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA16142 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:55:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.251] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102ItL-0003Gi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:55:12 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990118094316.00bd3580@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:45:21 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Benedictine Habit In-Reply-To: <19990118125148.18632.rocketmail@send501.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I am searching for information on constructing an authentic >Benedictine monastic habit as commonly worn by monks in Northern >Europe during the nineteenth century. Any information you can direct >me to will be greatly appreciated. I think there are still Benedictines you could contact. They'd know all about that. See if they have a web site. Many cloistered 20th-century monks do these days, especially the ones who engage in e-commerce. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 12:47:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31483 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:47:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA23289; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:07:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA16182 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:55:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA16161 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:55:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.251] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102ItP-0003Gi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:55:15 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990118094758.00bd2720@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:48:33 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Tea Darkening In-Reply-To: <19990118143558.FJQD23534@LOCALNAME> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I'm sure I read somewhere that coloring fabric with tea/coffee would >age the fabric more plus make the fabric more susceptible to damage That's why I heard to use caffeine-free tea/coffee. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 12:48:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31490 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:48:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA23274; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:07:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA16175 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:55:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA16151 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:55:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.251] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102ItN-0003Gi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:55:14 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990118094646.00bdeea0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990118094646.00bdeea0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:51:47 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Wayward Women In-Reply-To: <36A3AD66.2B56@dial.pipex.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows it is as much in pounds in England! Your books are so much >cheaper than ours - sigh! Yes, but your books are not as cheap to us as to you - sigh from this side of 'the Pond'. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 13:59:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA31898 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:59:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04167; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:19:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA29283 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:07:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA29267 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:07:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.202.189.142] (ppp-142.pm4-1.grin.net [208.202.189.142]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA25706 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:07:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:11:29 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@grin.net Subject: RE: H-COST: A&E Unmentionables Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Betsy Perry queried: >How _do_ they airbrush the nipples out of video images? Same way they colorize videos. Computer technology is quite versatile. There are special set-ups for altering videos. No need to resort to hand-tools like air-brushes. Or to painting on film, the way the Melies brothers hand-colored all their films from the 1890's (such as "A Trip to the Moon"). A healthy dose of tightly corseted, scantily clad dancing girls in these, among the very first movies. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 14:04:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA31930 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:04:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04735; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:24:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA00342 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:12:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.staffing.net (mail.staffing.net [204.248.205.117]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA00315 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:12:34 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail.staffing.net from localhost (router,SLMail V3.1); Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:17:37 -0500 Received: by mail.staffing.net from kerryc [205.140.240.51] (SLmail 3.1.2948 (Release Build)); Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:17:36 -0500 From: "Kerry Cotter" To: Subject: H-COST: RE: kakofnitch Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:12:25 -0500 Message-ID: <000601be4316$7be26a50$33f08ccd@kerryc.Net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kerry Cotter" Can anyone tell me what the above referenced word is? I know it's a coostuming term. Thanks. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 14:20:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA32024 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:20:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA07027; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:40:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA03707 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:28:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA03557 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:27:45 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:27:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 9972 invoked from network); 18 Jan 1999 19:23:17 -0000 Received: from 236.240.3-2.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.236) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 1999 19:23:17 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990118112737.2acf7990@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: RE: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 02:51 AM 01/18/1999 EST, karrissa david wrote: > >-Poster: "karrissa david" > >>The head scarf thing we now call a babushka > > >That is wierd. I was taught that Babushka means grandmother. > >Karrissa Actually, the babushka is the head scarf. It came to mean "grandmother" because it was worn mostly by older women after the fashion had changed. Of course, I seem to have buried my Russian language texts the last time I rearranged my bookshelves ... and it's been far too long since I studied the language to dredge up the proper word for "grandmother" from depths of my memory . The formal word for "mother" is "matya" (IIRC), but "grandmother" still escapes me. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 14:26:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA32054 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:26:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA07919; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:46:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA05086 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:34:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA05056 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:34:21 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:34:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 11982 invoked from network); 18 Jan 1999 19:29:55 -0000 Received: from 236.240.3-2.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.236) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 1999 19:29:55 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990118113415.2acf5940@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk Cords Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 04:34 PM 01/18/1999 -0000, Chandler, Sally wrote: > >-Poster: "Chandler, Sally" > >I want to make some silk cords and braids for the 15th century. I have no >problem getting hold of the silk but don't know whether I should get the >shiny, smooth sort or the softer looking, slightly fluffy sort. Does >anyone know what is authentic for the period? > >Many thanks, > >Sally Ann Go for the smooth, shiny silk. The soft, fluffy stuff won't hold up and isn't appropriate anyway. Joan Jurancich aka Lady Dorothy (Hastings) Devereux [RPFN], mother [in-law] to Lady Essex joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 15:19:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA32367 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:19:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA15289; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:39:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA19910 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:27:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA19877 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:27:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 6082 invoked from network); 18 Jan 1999 20:28:49 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-9.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.9) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 1999 20:28:49 -0000 Message-ID: <36A3BD6E.75B6@mc.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:02:07 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Joy Trim References: <199901180641.XAA22956@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Anah, Found this with a Netscape Yellow Pages search -- no email addy, doesn't look like they have a website. Joy Trimming Corporation 212 W 9th St Wilmington, DE 19801-1620 Phone: 302-654-4108 Hope it's the one you're looking for, Heather _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 15:25:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA32421 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:25:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA16176; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:45:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA21724 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:33:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA21657 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:33:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p26.directcon.net [206.170.184.75]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA02126 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:28:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:28:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901182028.MAA02126@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 02:37 PM 1/18/99 +1030, you wrote: > >-Poster: The Purple Elephant > >On Sun, 17 Jan 1999 Seton1355@aol.com wrote: > >> >> -Poster: Seton1355@aol.com >> >> >> You quite often see illuminations of mediaeval couples in bed wearing >> nothing but their hats>> >> >> Why do you think this was? Were they painted right after or before making >> love? It was too cold (most of the time) to hang about naked. I once lived in an "apartment" that was basically a converted toolshed, in South Lake Tahoe, CA, (i.e, a very cold climate). The bedroom was completely unheated and uninsulated, to the point where a glass of water left on the nightstand would freeze solid overnight. My partner and I found that we were warmest sleeping under many blankets, but naked except for wooly hats. I seem to have blocked out how we handled getting out of bed and dashing through the breezeway (!) to the bathroom. I suppose being young and in love helped. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 15:29:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA32442 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:29:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA16820; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:49:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA22515 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:37:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from send501.yahoomail.com (wen505.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.72]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA22490 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:37:51 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990118203804.19996.rocketmail@send501.yahoomail.com> Received: from [209.151.96.69] by web505.yahoomail.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:38:04 PST Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:38:04 -0800 (PST) From: Calvin Girvin Subject: Re: H-COST: Benedictine Habit To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Calvin Girvin Kayta, thank you for your suggestion. I appreciate your help. Cal ---Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > > >I am searching for information on constructing an authentic > >Benedictine monastic habit as commonly worn by monks in Northern > >Europe during the nineteenth century. Any information you can direct > >me to will be greatly appreciated. > > I think there are still Benedictines you could contact. They'd know all > about that. See if they have a web site. Many cloistered 20th-century > monks do these days, especially the ones who engage in e-commerce. > > > Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 15:38:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA32511 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:38:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA17847; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:58:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA24105 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:47:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA24093 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 11469 invoked from network); 18 Jan 1999 20:48:40 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-9.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.9) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 1999 20:48:40 -0000 Message-ID: <36A3C216.656E@mc.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:21:58 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Russian peasant dress References: <199901180641.XAA22956@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law You mean a sarafan? (Sort of like a long jumper, laid out flat it goes about 45 degrees out on each side from under the arms, covers the bust and has straps over the shoulders. Worn with a pretty typical-looking E. Euro peasant blouse.) The Tilke book has the layouts if that's what you're looking for (unfortunately not his online Oriental Costume book). Heather > (Regardless of this fact a number of female > participants of Ft. Ross' living history day wear a russian peasent > gown which has a name that I forget. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 16:13:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00017 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:13:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA20020; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:14:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA26892 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:02:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id OAA26882 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:02:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 15961 invoked from network); 18 Jan 1999 21:04:16 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-9.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.9) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 1999 21:04:16 -0000 Message-ID: <36A3C5BE.7CE1@mc.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:37:34 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: well, duh! References: <199901181928.MAA03807@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Please excuse my 2 "redundant and repetitive" postings, sarafans and Joy Trim... Teach me to check for more that 1 HCOST digest before I jump in! Heather _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 16:28:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00095 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:28:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA25115; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:48:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA02694 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:36:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA02677 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:36:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id IAA05752 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:06:16 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA18522; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:06:15 +1030 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:06:15 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps In-Reply-To: <199901182028.MAA02126@zeus.directcon.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, Margo Anderson wrote: > > I once lived in an "apartment" that was basically a converted toolshed, in > South Lake Tahoe, CA, (i.e, a very cold climate). The bedroom was > completely unheated and uninsulated, to the point where a glass of water > left on the nightstand would freeze solid overnight. My partner and I found > that we were warmest sleeping under many blankets, but naked except for > wooly hats. > Good point actually.....Something like 90% of body heat is lost through the head (hence the need for hats) but human body heat is quite efficient in warming the other parts. In fact one of the best ways of dealing with hypothermia when hiking is to get as naked as you can and crawl into a sleeping bag with the person.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 16:30:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00113 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:30:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA25577; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:50:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA02972 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:38:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA02964 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:38:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA07400 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:38:53 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:38:52 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > Good point actually.....Something like 90% of body heat is lost through > the head (hence the need for hats) but human body heat is quite > efficient in warming the other parts. In fact one of the best ways of > dealing with hypothermia when hiking is to get as naked as you can and > crawl into a sleeping bag with the person.... Does this mean I can go skiing naked, as long as I wear a hat? *grin Emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 16:35:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00142 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:35:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA26491; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:55:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA03775 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:43:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA03763 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:43:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from bino (1Cust11.tnt5.bos2.da.uu.net [208.254.20.11]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA03949 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:43:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <003101be432b$96a67a60$0b14fed0@bino> From: "Van Cleave & Fleming" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: WW II Help Kids clothing Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:43:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002E_01BE4301.AC9AB180" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Van Cleave & Fleming" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BE4301.AC9AB180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable - -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" >There's a terrific movie, made about 7 years back, on this >subject, but darned if I can remember the name of it. That movie is called "Hope & Glory" and its fabulous! - Kendra Van Cleave ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BE4301.AC9AB180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

- -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" <hhdunlap@email.msn.com>
=
>There's=20 a terrific movie, made about 7 years back, on this
>subject, but = darned if=20 I can remember the name of it.
 
That movie is called "Hope & Glory" and its = fabulous!
 
- Kendra Van Cleave
 
------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BE4301.AC9AB180-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 17:25:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00559 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:25:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA05546; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:44:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA12561 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:32:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.primary.net (mail.primary.net [205.242.92.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA12551 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:32:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from ninenet.com (pn12-ppp-48.primary.net [208.19.232.48]) by mail.primary.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/+primary) with ESMTP id QAA16736 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:32:43 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36A3B64D.55603C70@ninenet.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:32:09 -0600 From: Karen Heim X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Tea Darkening References: <199901161916.OAA18940@jefferson.patriot.net> <36A28415.1526FEA0@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Karen Heim On a similar note: I have a vinyl doll I want to color brown. Is there a natural-looking way to do this? Will the coffee/tea technique work? Or perhaps a type of dye? I don't really want to paint it - that's not something I'm comfortable with, and I don't think it will look natural. Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 17:31:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00592 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:31:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA06742; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:51:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA13498 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:39:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA13293 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:38:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA02958 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:07:40 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA18898; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:07:39 +1030 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:07:38 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, Emma Elizabeth Lehman wrote: > > > Does this mean I can go skiing naked, as long as I wear a hat? *grin And strap another naked human being to yourself....:-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 17:53:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00768 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:53:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA10106; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:13:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA16830 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:01:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA16821 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:01:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from andrea (209-122-216-59.s59.tnt3.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.216.59]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA28905 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:06:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000901be434f$e5353760$3bd87ad1@andrea.gideon> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: modern sewing ? Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:03:03 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" Any suggestions on how to create a nursing opening in a dress pattern that has bust darts? It will be worn with a short matching jacket so the opening do not really have to be hidden. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 18:14:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00892 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:14:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA12728; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:34:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA20020 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:22:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA19996 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:22:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.72] (ell88.acadia.net [205.217.218.72]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA13702 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:22:18 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:22:19 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: silk for cord Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> The shiny, smooth kind. Original cords were made from reeled, not spun silk, so the fluffy looking stuff is inaccurate (also wouldn't wear as well.) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 18:16:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00910 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:16:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA12986; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:36:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA20442 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:24:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA20412 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:24:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a03.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.131]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA25621 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:24:33 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36A3C2B0.69503AC7@nash.tds.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:24:32 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: modern sewing ? References: <000901be434f$e5353760$3bd87ad1@andrea.gideon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat Andrea Gideon wrote: > > Any suggestions on how to create a nursing opening in a > dress pattern that has bust darts? It will be worn with > a short matching jacket so the opening do not really have > to be hidden. I generally use vertical slits for nursing dresses. You might try looking at these two sites. One sells nursing patterns and the other clothes but it might help give you some ideas about how to modify the pattern. http://www.motherwear.com/ clothes http://www.snj.com/eldesigns/ patterns Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 19:29:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01300 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:29:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA21616; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:49:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA00545 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:37:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id RAA00534 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:37:10 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:37:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 18269 invoked from network); 19 Jan 1999 00:32:44 -0000 Received: from 2.64.3-8.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.231.64.2) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 1999 00:32:44 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990118163702.21a73ba2@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Costume Manual, was RE: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich I looked at the Costume Manual this afternoon. There are no references for Fort Ross. Joan Jurancich Sutter's Fort Docent >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >There is a costume book for mid-19th Century California and >the far West, which I personally have not seen, so I don't >know if it includes Russian immigrant costume of the type >you want. > >But it is by Rickman, David W. and called, Costume Manual: >Guide to Clothing Worn in California and Far West ca. 1845. >nd. Sutter's Fort. detailed costume reconstruction: Euro & >Native American, Californio, 121 Costume plates b/w and >color, lg. 4to. notebook bound 202p. [snip] >Hope H. Dunlap [snip] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 19:41:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01364 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:41:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA22635; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:00:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA01859 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:48:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA01840 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:48:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-244-146.s146.tnt4.rcm.erols.com [207.172.244.146]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id TAA03229 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:47:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000101be4345$6912d980$92f4accf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: "costume newsgroup" Subject: H-COST: Dior book Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:48:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" I came across a book on Dior at Barnes & Noble. I would like to hear some feedback on two areas addressed in the book I found interesting: 1. A picture shows a woman with a U shaped device with a pencil at the bottom of the U. The lady was using the device to draw lines on the back of her legs simulating hose seams. Has anyone seen this device before and what is it called? 2. The book states that models were called mannequins prior to WW2. Has anyone heard of this before? What was the reason for the change of name? Lastly, a question that has puzzled me for a few years... while in school my professor stated that Dior was not responsible for "The New Look". That he just received credit for it. If Dior was not responsible for "The New Look", who was? Did another designer come up with the idea and Dior make it fashionable? Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 19:50:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01411 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:50:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA23907; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:09:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA02879 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:57:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA02838 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:57:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.180] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102PTt-0005jh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:57:22 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990118160304.00bf3dc0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:08:45 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: kakofnitch In-Reply-To: <000601be4316$7be26a50$33f08ccd@kerryc.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I know a word 'kokoshnik', meaning the pearled cap-like thing worn by Russian women under their head scarf. Where does your word come from? Context? > >Can anyone tell me what the above referenced word is? I know it's a >coostuming term. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 19:50:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01415 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:50:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA23910; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:09:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA02889 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:57:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA02857 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:57:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.180] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102PU1-0005jh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:57:31 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990118161320.00c0fea0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:17:33 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: modern sewing ? In-Reply-To: <000901be434f$e5353760$3bd87ad1@andrea.gideon> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Any suggestions on how to create a nursing opening in a dress pattern that >has bust darts? It will be worn with a short matching jacket so the opening >do not really have to be hidden. I made a garment with nursing slits by making the slits then putting a panel over them. The slits were narrower together than the edges of the panel were, so the panel covered them. I suggest a panel which looks like the front of the dress ought to, because I think you do have to hide the slits so it looks like they aren't there. Then let the edges of the panel be disguised by the jacket.\ _____ _____ <-jacket ____________ <-panel ____ _______ ___ <-dress Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 19:50:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01419 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:50:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA23919; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:09:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA02902 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:57:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA02850 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:57:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.180] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102PTx-0005jh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:57:26 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990118161131.00c0a240@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:13:00 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Tea Darkening In-Reply-To: <36A3B64D.55603C70@ninenet.com> References: <199901161916.OAA18940@jefferson.patriot.net> <36A28415.1526FEA0@pacbell.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I have a vinyl doll I want to color brown. Is there a natural-looking way to >do this? Will the coffee/tea technique work? Or perhaps a type of dye? I >don't really want to paint it - that's not something I'm comfortable with, and >I don't think it will look natural. Dylon's hot water dye will dye plastic buttons. I'd try the technique out on a plastic doll from the thrift store before trying it on your doll. It ought to work... Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 20:43:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA01684 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:43:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA00665; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:03:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA08436 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:51:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA08412 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:51:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p29.directcon.net [206.170.184.78]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA09907 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:46:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:46:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901190146.RAA09907@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: modern sewing ? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 06:03 PM 1/18/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > >Any suggestions on how to create a nursing opening in a dress pattern that >has bust darts? It will be worn with a short matching jacket so the opening >do not really have to be hidden. My favorite way to make a nursing opening is to make a center front opening from an inch or two below the neckline, to just above waist level. Then use your bodice pattern to cut a panel with the same neckline as the dress, just narrower than the width from bust point to point, and long enough to reach the waistline. Line this piece, leaving the neckline area unturned. Stitch it to the neckline, then apply the neck facing or binding, treating thethree layers as one. Sew a snap (I like the large nylon ones) to each lower corner and to the dress in the corresponding location. If your dress is a woven fabric without much ease, it's best to replace the underlay area with a stretch knit. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 20:52:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA01732 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:52:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA02010; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:13:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA09526 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:01:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA09520 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:01:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.96.178.14] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 102QTX-0007jJ-00; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:01:04 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990119015944.006eba84@mail.widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@mail.widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:59:44 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: Costume Manual, was RE: H-COST: fort ross/ ethnic Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 05:37 PM 1/18/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Joan M Jurancich > >I looked at the Costume Manual this afternoon. There are no references for >Fort Ross. > >Joan Jurancich >Sutter's Fort Docent Actually there are, but they are limited, and male. The russian men wore mostly uniforms, a number of those uniforms were apparently purchased by Mr. Sutter after Fort Ross closed. Mr. Rickman shows some of those in his book, though I do not have the page number with me. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 21:13:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA01858 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:13:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA04550; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:33:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA11297 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:21:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net (raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA11289 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:21:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from alt1 (sdn-ar-001dcwashP257.dialsprint.net [168.191.22.19]) by raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA00386 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:21:23 -0800 (PST) From: "Allison Thurman" To: Subject: H-COST: dior and new look Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:23:50 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2212 (4.71.2419.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Allison Thurman" i believe the foundations for the new look were in the works in paris before wwII/the occupation - needless to say it was put on hold until after the war. however, i believe an issue of 'fashion theory" from last year discusses fashion in paris during wwII and mentions that dressmakers in paris would sometimes make "new look" type dresses in order to use up yards of fabric that would otherwise go towards the nazi war effort. im not looking at the issue this second but i can go sift through my back issues for credits if need be. allison _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 22:32:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA02305 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:32:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA13547; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:52:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA19168 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:40:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA19154 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:40:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from erols.com (207-172-44-119.s119.tnt3.brd.erols.com [207.172.44.119]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with ESMTP id WAA16071 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:40:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36A3FEED.2DBD9DB2@erols.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:41:34 -0500 From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Bridge Enterprizes X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Incas References: <000101be3ead$f8239b60$ec56accf@s0peladn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David S. Mallinak" Penny E. Ladnier wrote: > I just watched a really good video on the Inca civilization. It was > originally aired on PBS in 1980, and produced by the BBC. It is titled > Incas (PBS Video 1061). A related source of information may be the Museum of Man in San Deago, Calf. When I visit the museum in early 90's , there was a exhibit of clothing of MesoAmerica. At that time there was no catalog of exhibit (no money). I know I spent the afternoon of one visit tracking down the official responsible. David S Mallinak _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 23:04:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02493 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:04:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA17406; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:24:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA22549 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:12:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA22527 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:12:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip220-245.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.245]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA29403 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:12:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990118223826.009a8100@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:38:26 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: RE: H-COST: leading strings In-Reply-To: <000d01be4181$190fb900$7417ffd0@default> References: <4.1.19990114113105.00bc3830@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, Has anyone seen any 16th century portraits with children in leading strings? I would be curious to see what they actually look like. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 23:04:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02497 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:04:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA17401; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:24:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA22544 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:12:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA22518 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:12:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip220-245.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.245]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA29433 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:12:20 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990118225754.009a8e50@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:57:54 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: Synthetic whalebone? In-Reply-To: <19990117101951Z40845-1450+4@tuug.org> References: <199901170350.TAA21418@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >I have been using it (only the 1mm x 10mm and 2.5mm x 6mm >sizes, though others are also available) in the corsets and >bodices I have made during the last couple of years. I cannot >compare it to real whalebone, as I have never had access to >that, but perhaps I can answer some questions anyway. Where did you get it? Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 23:15:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02573 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:15:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA18935; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:35:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA23827 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:23:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA23814 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:23:34 -0700 (MST) From: ROXDUDLEY@aol.com Received: from ROXDUDLEY@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id XOQQa03539 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:20:39 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <606646e7.36a40817@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:20:39 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Site Help Needed Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ROXDUDLEY@aol.com Greetings to the List ! I need to ask a favor....I set up my new computer this past weekend & forgot to get all my favorite places off the old one before packing it all up in a box. There is a costume site that I can't for the life of me remember its name. The only thing I can recall is that the web design page is pinkish in color and has a design of a single row of pastel sequins on it (at least that's what I remember it looking like). It's a huge link site with many related sites of interest. If this vague description strikes a chord of recognition with anyone, please email me privately. Vowing never to lose a site again, Roxanne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 23:50:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02772 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:49:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA22690; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:10:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA26959 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:58:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA26944 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:58:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-114.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.114]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA12404 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:58:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990118234306.009c6500@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:43:06 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk Cords In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >I want to make some silk cords and braids for the 15th century. I have no >problem getting hold of the silk but don't know whether I should get the >shiny, smooth sort or the softer looking, slightly fluffy sort. Where do you get it? Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 23:57:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02858 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:57:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA23396; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:16:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA27629 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:03:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA27622 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:03:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from unknown (vision269.vcn.com [208.162.241.166]) by sight.vcn.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CD49EF51EC; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:03:48 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <606646e7.36a40817@aol.com> References: Conversation <606646e7.36a40817@aol.com> with last message <606646e7.36a40817@aol.com> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Subject: Re: H-COST: Site Help Needed Date: Mon, 18 Jan 99 23:06:19 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id XAA02858 Status: O -Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Greetings! It's "The Costume Page" - http://members.aol.com/nebula5/costume.html the sequins gave it away... Liadain ---------- > > -Poster: ROXDUDLEY@aol.com > > Greetings to the List ! > > I need to ask a favor....I set up my new computer this past weekend & forgot > to get all my favorite places off the old one before packing it all up in a > box. There is a costume site that I can't for the life of me remember its > name. The only thing I can recall is that the web design page is pinkish in > color and has a design of a single row of pastel sequins on it (at least > that's what I remember it looking like). It's a huge link site with many > related sites of interest. If this vague description strikes a chord of > recognition with anyone, please email me privately. > > Vowing never to lose a site again, > Roxanne > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 18 23:57:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02865 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:57:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA23165; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:13:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA27326 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:01:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA27186 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:01:23 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip76.van15.pacifier.com [216.65.137.76]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA03186 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:01:21 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901190501.VAA03186@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:01:58 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Dior book Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000101be4345$6912d980$92f4accf@s0peladn> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > Lastly, a question that has puzzled me for a few years... while in school my > professor stated that Dior was not responsible for "The New Look". That he > just received credit for it. If Dior was not responsible for "The New > Look", who was? Did another designer come up with the idea and Dior make it > fashionable? If it's the book I'm thinking of, it explains the precise origins of "The New Look." (The book I read went into great detail about what he was doing and when each idea came along.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 00:22:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA03636 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:22:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA25237; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:42:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA29807 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:30:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from echo.flash.net (echo.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA29795 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:30:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p99.amax12.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.67.99]) by echo.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA15487 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:29:26 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36A4175C.FFA0B4D6@flash.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:25:48 -0600 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Subject: H-COST: Hawaiian shirts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Charlene Charette This is slightly off-topic, but I'm hoping someone will have an answer. A friend of ours went home to Hawaiian recently and my husband asked him to bring back a shirt. It's a cotton print, but the shirt is made so that the fabric is wrong-side out. My friend assures me that this is the way these shirts are made although he has no idea why. Does anyone know why they're made this way? It almost makes me want to take it apart and resew it. *almost* :-) --Charlene -- No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible. -- Stanislaus Lezczynski _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 00:34:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA03692 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:34:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA26069; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:55:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA00880 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:42:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA00875 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:42:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id QAA12449 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:12:46 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA21916; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:12:45 +1030 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:12:44 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: H-Costume List Subject: Re: H-COST: Hawaiian shirts In-Reply-To: <36A4175C.FFA0B4D6@flash.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, Charlene Charette wrote: > > -Poster: Charlene Charette > > This is slightly off-topic, but I'm hoping someone will have an answer. > A friend of ours went home to Hawaiian recently and my husband asked him > to bring back a shirt. It's a cotton print, but the shirt is made so > that the fabric is wrong-side out. My friend assures me that this is > the way these shirts are made although he has no idea why. Does anyone > know why they're made this way? It almost makes me want to take it > apart and resew it. *almost* :-) > Maybe so the sun doesn't fade it? I try to hang a lot of my clothes out to dry inside out to slow down the effects of the sun here..... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 00:48:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA03769 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:48:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA26839; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:09:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA01727 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA01713 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:56:57 -0700 (MST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id TXIBa03482 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:56:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:56:21 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk Cords Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_916725382_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_916725382_boundary Content-ID: <0_916725382@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII << >I want to make some silk cords and braids for the 15th century. I have no >problem getting hold of the silk but don't know whether I should get the >shiny, smooth sort or the softer looking, slightly fluffy sort. And Danielle asked: << Where do you get it? >> You can get wonderful silk thread from one of any of the suppliers listed below. It is a list of suggested suppliers which is provided to tablet weavers. Cheers! Nancy --part0_916725382_boundary Content-ID: <0_916725382@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: text/plain; name="SUPPLI~1.TXT" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Content-disposition: inline SUGGESTED LIST OF SUPPLIERS 1. Aurora Silk, 5806 North Vancouver Avenue, Portland, OR 97217 (503) = 286-4149 - silk threads 2. Beggar=92s Lace, P.O. Box 481223, Denver, CO 80248 (303) 722-5557 l= acelady@rmii.com - silk, linen, cotton threads 3. Bob Patterson, P.O. Box 424, Orinda, CA 94563 (925) 943-5243 - silk= , linen, and cotton threads 4. Books in Transit, 2830 Case Way, Turlock, CA 95382 (209) 632-6984 - = out-of-print books 5. Carolina Homespun, 190 Eastridge Rd., Ridgeway, VA 24148 (800) 450-7= 786 homespun@kimbanet.com - tablets, =09shuttles, belt tablet-weaving holder, looms, warping pegs, books 6. Daisy Chain, P.O. Box 1258, Parkersburg, WV 26102 (304) 428-9500 - s= ilk, metallic, real gold and silver threads 7. Earth Guild, 33 Haywood Street, Asheville, NC 28801 (800) 327-8448 = inform@earthguild.com or =09catalog.earthguild.com - square cardboard tab= lets, belt shuttles, books, linen, cotton, and wool threads 8. Fiber Hut, 2316 Crestwood Rd., SE, Calgary, Alberta T2C 0C6 Canada (= 403) 279-2658 - square cardboard tablets, =09books, silk, linen, cotton, and wool threads 9. Fibrecrafts, Style Cottage, Lower Eashing, Godalming, Surrey GU7 2QD = England (48) 342-1853) - square cardboard =09tablets, warping pegs with clamps, shuttles, books 10. Halcyon Yarns, 12 School Street, Bath, ME 04530 (800) 341-0282 - sq= uare cardboard tablets, warping pegs, books, =09silk, linen, cotton, wool, and metallic threads 11. Handweavers Studio and Gallery, 29 Haroldstone Road, London E17 7AN = England (81) 521-2281 - square and =09hexagonal cardboard tablets, warpi= ng pegs with clamps, shuttles, silk, linen, cotton, wool, and metallic th= reads 12. Linda Hendrickson, 140 SE 39th Avenue, Portland, OR 97214 (503) 239= -5016 lindahendrickson@cnnw.net - =09square cardboard tablets, shuttles, kits, books, video 13. Heritage Looms, Route 6, Box 731-E, Alvin, TX 77511 (409) 925-4161 -= tabletop looms, square cardboard tablets 14. Frank Herring & Sons, 27 High West Street, Dorchester, Dorset DT1 1UP= England (30) 524-4449 - square =09plastic tablets, warping pegs with clamps, shuttles 15. Howell=92s Weaving Emporium, 4832 Salmon Drive, Paradise, CA 95969 (= 503) 877-4539 - tabletop looms, shuttles 16. LACIS, 3163 Adeline Street, Berkeley, CA 94703 (510) 843-7178 staff= @lacis.com - silk, linen, cotton, and metallic =09threads, including G=FCtermann silks and color card 17. Lou=EBt, P.O. Box 267, Ogdensburg, NY 13669 (613) 925-4502 - square = wooden tablets 18. Laura Morgan, 1633 Stoney Creek Drive, Charlottesville, VA 22902 (80= 4) 984-0537 - handmade wooden tablets 19. Needle Arts, Inc., 2211 Monroe, Dearborn, MI 48124 (313) 278-6266 - = silk, linen, cotton, metallic, real gold threads 20. Nordic Needle, 1314 Gateway Drive, Fargo, ND 58103 (800) 433-4321 ne= edle@corpcomm.com - silk, cotton, and =09metallic threads 21. Robin and Russ Handweavers, 533 North Adams Street, McMinnville, OR 9= 7128 (800) 932-8391 =09robin&russ@onlinemac.com - square and hexagonal c= ardboard tablets. shuttles, books, videos 22. The Silk Tree, 20297 Stanton Ave., Maple Ridge, BC V2X 9A5 Canada (= 604)465-9816 aurum@axionet.com - =09silk threads 23. Otfried Staudigel, H=F6ppnerstrasse 108, D - 47809 Krefeld, Germany -= floor-standing looms 24. Textile Reproductions, Box 48, West Chesterfield, MA 01084 (413) 296= -4437 - silk, linen, cotton, and wool threads =09(early vegetable dyes used) 25. Things Japanese, 9805 NE 116th Street, Suite 7160, Kirkland, WA 98034= (206) 821-2287 - silk and metallic threads 26. Treenway Crafts, 725 Caledonia Avenue, Victoria, BC V8T 1E4 Canada (= 604) 383-1661 treenway@coastnet.com - =09silk threads 27. Unicorn Books and Crafts, 1338 Ross Street, Petaluma, CA 94954 (800)= 289-9276 - square cardboard tablets, belt =09shuttles, belt tablet weaving holder, books, videos 28. The Weaving Works, 4717 Brooklyn Ave., NE, Seattle, WA 98105 (206) 5= 24-1221 - square cardboard tablets, =09shuttles, warping pegs, belt table= t weaving holder, books, videos 29. WEBS, P.O. Box 147, Northampton, MA 01061-0147 (413) 584-2225 webs@= yarn.com - silk threads 30. Yarn Barn, P.O. Box 396, Dillwyn, VA 23936 (800) 850-6008 pkirtland= @yarnbarn.com - square cardboard tablets, =09shuttles, warping pegs, books --part0_916725382_boundary-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 01:37:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA04269 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:37:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA00270; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:57:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA04798 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:45:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA04793 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:45:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.157] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102Uua-0006hm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:45:16 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:45:50 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps In-Reply-To: References: <199901182028.MAA02126@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 08:06 AM 1/19/99 +1030, you wrote: My partner and I found >> that we were warmest sleeping under many blankets, but naked except for >> wooly hats. Yep. I'll bet the trip through the breezeway was made swiftly in any case, and sometimes pulling on a robe/&c. as you went... . >Good point actually.....Something like 90% of body heat is lost through >the head (hence the need for hats) but human body heat is quite >efficient in warming the other parts. In fact one of the best ways of >dealing with hypothermia when hiking is to get as naked as you can and >crawl into a sleeping bag with the person.... >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Claire F. Clarke I'll vouch, having had to do that before. It worked. Though the person was prone to chill easily for a while thereafter, no other harm was taken. Thanks be. Carol Cannon, who grew up in a cold area _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 01:38:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA04280 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:38:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA00408; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:58:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA04875 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:46:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA04859 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:46:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.157] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102Uvg-0006kj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:46:24 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:46:57 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: nightcaps In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 03:38 PM 1/18/99 -0600, you wrote: > >-Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> >Does this mean I can go skiing naked, as long as I wear a hat? *grin >Emma You could, I suppose...ever hear of windburn? It's also a reality. :-) Carol Cannon _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 02:19:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA04517 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:19:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA03049; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:40:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA07365 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:27:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from dub-img-4.compuserve.com (dub-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.206.134]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA07356 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:27:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id CAA26633 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:27:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:27:05 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Dior book To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901190227_MC2-6726-3F7F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id CAA04517 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson >1. A picture shows a woman with a U shaped device with a pencil at the bottom of the U. The lady was using the device to draw lines on the back of her legs simulating hose seams. Has anyone seen this device before and what is it called? Well I know some people used eye liner, but a specific device, what was it like I'll ask my Mother in law she was in her late teens so might have used one. >2. The book states that models were called mannequins prior to WW2. Has anyone heard of this before? What was the reason for the change of name? You mean the models that are used in shop windows ? I think they are still called mannequins in the UK. Models are people on catwalks arn't they ? >Lastly, a question that has puzzled me for a few years... while in school my professor stated that Dior was not responsible for "The New Look". That he just received credit for it. If Dior was not responsible for "The New Look", who was? Did another designer come up with the idea and Dior make it fashionable? I've heard the New Look was a response to more fabric being avaliable after the Utility clothing of the war. One of the London Muiseums did a big display (and book I think) on it all last year (or the year before) Can't remember which one though. Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 02:36:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA04607 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:36:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA04060; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:57:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA08304 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:45:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from arl-img-10.compuserve.com (arl-img-10.compuserve.com [149.174.217.140]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA08298 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:45:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by arl-img-10.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id CAA11723 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:44:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:43:31 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Dior-stocking seams To: LIST historic costume Message-ID: <199901190243_MC2-6724-6E7E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id CAA04607 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson Having woken up a bit more I think eyeliner was the wrong term to use (sorry I don't wear makeup !) eyebrow pencil maybe ? Any way it is a soft leaded pencil, that was designed to be used somewhere near your eyes, rather than your legs. I know everytime I dress up in 40s stuff out comes that pencil & my Mum starts drawing on my legs :) I know it was quite a skill to get it looking straight, try it it's hard ! Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 02:47:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA04713 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:47:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA04903; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:07:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA08945 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:55:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA08939 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:55:29 -0700 (MST) From: MissMela@aol.com Received: from MissMela@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id XXDOa03210 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:54:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6b1239c9.36a43a4c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:54:52 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Hawaiian shirts Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 205 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MissMela@aol.com My husband had several Hawaiian shirts made with the fabric inside out in the early 1980s and I see that they are back in our "resort" shops in California. After being made out of bright fabrics for so long, everyone needs a change. (Look how often woman change dress styles!) Men don't seem to be able to deal with structural changes as much as a color or fabric change and even then, it's limited. My husband always preferred the reversed shirts because they were more muted and didn't look as resorty or cruise ship like. No fact, just personal history. Mela _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 02:50:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA04744 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:50:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA05183; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:11:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA09158 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:58:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA09152 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:58:54 -0700 (MST) From: MissMela@aol.com Received: from MissMela@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 0DGYa19752 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:58:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:58:17 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Dior book Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 205 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MissMela@aol.com Penny- My Worth book talks about his models being called mannequins and my mom was a model in the the 1930s and she says that that's what she was called, not a model. She said you were a mannequin, you did modeling. Granted, that's info from one person, but it makes sense. (She used to draw lines on the back of her legs with an eyebrow pencil, does remember there being a device to do it with but couldn't afford it and doesn't remember the name at the movement) Mela _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 03:33:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA10648 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 03:33:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA07395; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:54:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA11616 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:41:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA11609 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:41:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.128]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id AAA08333; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:41:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id AAA25678; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:41:53 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhQeB0w6ppaA1B7t76acFNtJIaccpwIUZ90IvUALxI1YUnFYHO1h6uZbYAQ= From: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 01:41:53 -0700 (MST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Dior-stocking seams Message-ID: <24344-36A44551-108@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: Melanie Wilson 's message of Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:43:31 -0500 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) I believe that due to the shortage of silk stockings in WW II, many women went without stockings. They put the line on the back of their legs as a fake stockings seam. If you "saw" the seam, you must be wearing stockings. Nylons were a few years in the future. Starsinger _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 06:32:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA11523 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:32:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA13590; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 04:53:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA16326 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 04:40:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE (mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE [130.149.4.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA16318 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 04:40:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.zrz.tu-berlin.de ([130.149.4.15]) by mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE with esmtp (EXIM-2.10) for id 102ZWC-0001GB-00; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:40:24 +0100 Received: from coal.bg.tu-berlin.de by mail.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE with SMTP (IC-PP); Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:40:11 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990119124031.00983480@130.149.12.212> X-Sender: barbara@130.149.12.212 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:40:31 +0100 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Barbara Maren Winkler Subject: Re: H-COST: Dior book In-Reply-To: <199901190048.RAA01882@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Barbara Maren Winkler >From: "Penny E. Ladnier" >Subject: H-COST: Dior book > >I came across a book on Dior at Barnes & Noble... > >2. The book states that models were called mannequins prior to WW2. Has >anyone heard of this before? What was the reason for the change of name? I remember models being called "Mannequins" in Germany before the fashion craze of the 1990s, when modelling became hip and a showbiz-like way of making a career. The term "model" came over from America or the international fashion scene. Not contradicting earlier uses of the word "model". At least that's my impression... Dietmar?? Barbara Maren -- Barbara Maren Winkler barbara@math.tu-berlin.de _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 07:42:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA11882 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:42:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA16401; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:01:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA19497 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 05:49:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from NIH2WAAD (smtp4.site1.csi.com [149.174.183.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA19488 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 05:49:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by csi.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:48:33 -0500 Received: from matt.gographics.com ([206.175.178.75] (may be forged)) by hil-img-ims-4.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/IMS-1.6) with SMTP id HAA14264 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:48:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004c01be43a9$994013c0$4bb2afce@matt.gographics.com> From: "Matt Dragonfly Drury" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Wintersilks Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:45:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Matt Dragonfly Drury" >Has anyone dealt with them recently? I did an Altavista search to find the My order was re-delivered in mid-December after the shipping company lost it a week earlier. I have no complaints; they handled the problem politely and with humour. I certainly don't hold a mistake on the part of the shipping company as representative of a problem on their end. As for their internal financial restructuring, that doesn't concern me overmuch. I always order with my credit card, so that if any sort of problem arises, I have recourse. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 08:42:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA12235 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:42:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA20183; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:01:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA23458 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:48:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA23452 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:48:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip25.an3-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.14.25]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA22675 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 05:48:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A47FC6.71932F86@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:51:20 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:OT/babushka References: <2.2.16.19990118112737.2acf7990@mail2.quiknet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Joan M Jurancich wrote: > -The formal word for "mother" is "matya" (IIRC), but > "grandmother" still escapes me. > According to both my English-Russian dictionary and my elementary Russian text, the word for 'grandmother' really is 'babushka': neither source gives an alternative, so this must be the formal term. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 08:47:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA12262 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:47:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA20779; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA24126 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:56:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA24118 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:56:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip25.an3-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.14.25]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA27683 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 05:56:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A48197.7C902463@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:59:05 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: dior and new look References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Allison Thurman wrote: > i believe an issue of 'fashion theory" from last year > discusses fashion in paris during wwII Please, more information on this publication!Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 09:25:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA12457 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:25:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA23272; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:46:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA28027 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:33:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from naos.cc.umanitoba.ca (root@naos.cc.umanitoba.ca [130.179.16.122]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA28018 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:33:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from Zaurak (net138.lib.umanitoba.ca [130.179.164.138]) by naos.cc.umanitoba.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA10515 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:33:15 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199901191433.IAA10515@naos.cc.umanitoba.ca> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Linda Lassman" Organization: University of Manitoba To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:36:36 CST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST:OT/babushka Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36A47FC6.71932F86@earthlink.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Linda Lassman" > > Joan M Jurancich wrote: > > > -The formal word for "mother" is "matya" (IIRC), but > > "grandmother" still escapes me. > > > > According to both my English-Russian dictionary and my elementary Russian > text, the word for 'grandmother' really is 'babushka': neither source gives > an alternative, so this must be the formal term. Lauri > Around here, where there is a large Ukrainian (and a somewhat smaller Russian) community, "babushka" is the formal term for "grandmother" (and also for the scarves they traditionally wear--but you all know that ;-) ), but most people actually refer to their "baba". It seems to be the same term in both languages. - Linda Lassman Winnipeg, Manitoba _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 10:02:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12670 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:02:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA27675; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA02558 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:10:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from schultz.io.com (ches@schultz.io.com [199.170.88.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA02547 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:10:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by schultz.io.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA19749 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:10:53 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: schultz.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:10:52 -0600 (CST) From: ches To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: H-COST: ANST - Manx Garb (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ches Please reply to spatsman@aol.com, thank you! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:20:47 EST From: Spatsman@aol.com Reply-To: ansteorra@Ansteorra.ORG To: ansteorra@Ansteorra.ORG Subject: ANST - Manx Garb Slainte, gang! Just a curiousity, I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions or sources for early Manx garb, especially for women 1000-1200 AD. I have had suggestions for Irish, Viking, and Norman garb with island celt influences, but these suggestions are based on guesswork, not research. I am aware that McClintlocks "Early Irish and Highland Dress" contains some notes concerning Manx fashion, but since its been out of date for forty years, I'm having a bigle of a time finding it. Here's hoping someone out there can turn me toward an answer. Fionnagan ============================================================================ Go to http://lists.ansteorra.org/lists.html to perform mailing list tasks. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 10:26:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12797 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:26:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA00722; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:46:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA06371 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:33:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA06358 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:33:31 -0700 (MST) From: Luiseach@aol.com Received: from Luiseach@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id TNQAa04794 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:25:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <670d12be.36a4a3dc@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:25:16 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: H-COST: Hawaiian shirts Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Luiseach@aol.com "Inside-out" Hawaiian shirts have been made for a long time, especially in the prints that are just 1 color + white. My husband had one about 18 years ago and I remember seeing older ones in a collection, actually a mini-museum, at the store where we bought his. Lucinda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 10:32:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12830 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:32:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA01617; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:53:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA07422 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:40:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from cerberus.infoengine.com (firewall-user@cerberus.infoengine.com [207.74.190.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id IAA07412 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:40:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by cerberus.infoengine.com; id KAA19382; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:37:12 -0500 Received: from wasabi.infoengine.com(10.1.0.41) by cerberus.infoengine.com via smap (4.1) id xma019380; Tue, 19 Jan 99 10:37:11 -0500 Received: from [10.1.0.64] by wasabi.infoengine.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA61A5 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:32:38 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: gwalli@mail.infoengine.com Message-Id: Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:33:14 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Gaylin Walli" Subject: H-COST: Jamaican costume? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gaylin Walli" I recently found out that our company is gifting all of us with a trip to Jamaica. Since I still have a little time, I was wondering if anyone could point me to or describe to me, some of the traditional costumes of Jamaica. I have this vision of lush, bright fabrics in my head that border on those of Hawaii, which I'm sure is wrong. What I'm aiming to find is something that I could wear with class and a little jewelry that would suffice for "dressing for dinner" at the resort. Historically accurate would be even better. :) Any ideas? Gaylin gwalli@infoengine.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 10:45:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12900 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:45:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA04077; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:06:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA09571 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:53:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA09552 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:53:10 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LURTa06037 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:52:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <24777931.36a4aa35@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:52:21 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Dior Book Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Dear Penny et al, There is a great Dior book that can be ordered online from Biddingtons Online Antiques and Collectibles at http://www.biddingtons.com/os/category/FIXcur161.shtml?161 Great price of $8.00 which includes the shipping. Check it out, Sally Queen Costume Calendar Series http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 11:35:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13162 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:35:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA10619; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:56:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA18390 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:43:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from morgoth.tuug.org (root@morgoth.tuug.org [130.232.72.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA18369 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:43:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from delenn.yok.utu.fi ([130.232.128.27] HELO delenn.yok.utu.fi ident: NO-IDENT-SERVICE [port 6404]) by tuug.org with SMTP id <40821-1469>; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:43:04 +0200 From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" Organization: Lyninine Federation To: Danielle Nunn , h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:43:00 +2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: Synthetic whalebone? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19990118225754.009a8e50@mail.interlog.com> References: <19990117101951Z40845-1450+4@tuug.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990119164304Z40821-1469+24@tuug.org> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" On 18 Jan 99, at 22:57, Danielle Nunn wrote: > Where did you get it? A German company Wissner sells it, but they have a 200m (over 200 yard) minimum. You is USA and Canade might be more interested to know Farthingale Fabrics ( http://www.farthingales.on.ca/pricelist4.htm )also sells it (at least 1mm x 10mm and 1mm x 7mm, I think) by the metre and they do not have a minimum, I think. -- -------(c) 1999--------------* lynoure@tuug.org * Ella Lynoure Rajamaki--------* http://www.tuug.org/~lynoure * _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 11:42:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13213 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:42:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA11465; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:03:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA19468 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:50:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA19454 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:50:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA09336 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:50:43 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:50:43 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: silk for cord In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> Okay, so what's the difference between "reeled" and "spun"? Emma the Non-Spinner On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, Deborah Pulliam wrote: > > The shiny, smooth kind. Original cords were made from reeled, not spun > silk, so the fluffy looking stuff is inaccurate (also wouldn't wear as > well.) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 11:46:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13243 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:46:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA11964; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:06:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA19899 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:53:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA19883 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:52:59 -0700 (MST) From: PiranhaBB@aol.com Received: from PiranhaBB@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 6KWDa01222 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:51:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:51:02 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: babushka Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: PiranhaBB@aol.com When I took Russian in college, we learned that the term for grandmother was pronounced ba'-bushka (with the emphasis on the first syllable) and the term for the head scarf thingy was pronounced ba-bu'-shka (with the emphasis on the second syllable). Hope this doesn't further confuse. Best regards, Lisa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 11:46:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13250 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:46:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA12114; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:08:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA20176 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:54:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay1.Hawaii.Edu (root@relay1.hawaii.edu [128.171.3.53]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id JAA20168 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:54:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from uhunix1.its.hawaii.edu ([128.171.44.6]) by relay1.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <149003(2)>; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:53:10 -1000 Received: from localhost by uhunix1.its.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <135667(2)>; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:53:01 -1000 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:52:56 -1000 From: lisaleon@hawaii.edu X-Sender: lisaleon@uhunix1 To: H-Costume List Subject: Re: H-COST: Hawaiian shirts In-Reply-To: <36A4175C.FFA0B4D6@flash.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: lisaleon@hawaii.edu Yes, they're supposed to be that way and it's usually the better quality ones and more expensive brands that make them inside out. Aloha shirts are often worn as business wear (especially on Fridays) and some of the aloha prints are just TOO loud. Although it may have started as a way to use fabric that was too bold I think it may have evolved into a status thing. Now for the most part, reverse prints are used by the "good" companies--you don't see reverse print aloha shirts on the $14.99 rack at K-Mart. Also, some of those companies have fabric printed specially for them and the right side is tame enough so it's become a fashion issue. lisa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 11:49:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13272 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:48:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA12375; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:10:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA20485 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:57:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from post.its.mcw.edu (post.its.mcw.edu [141.106.32.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA20478 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:57:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mschulte@localhost) by post.its.mcw.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA11682 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:55:08 -0600 (CST) From: Marie Schulte Message-Id: <199901191655.KAA11682@post.its.mcw.edu> Subject: H-COST: Re:"mannequin" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:55:06 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: from "SNSpies@aol.com" at Jan 19, 99 00:56:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marie Schulte In the Dorothy Sayers novel _Have His Carcase_ the term 'mannequin' is used. It refers to a minor character who does modelling. I cannot recall exactly when the book was written, but my guess is between 1932 and 1937. -marie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 11:59:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13357 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:59:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA13466; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:20:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA22470 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:06:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA22443 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:06:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.67] (ell83.acadia.net [205.217.218.67]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA06926 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:06:43 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:06:44 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: utility clothing/New Look Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> It was at the Museum of London, and they still had copies of the catalog in their bookshop last spring, so you might contact them. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 12:03:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13392 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:03:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA14418; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:24:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA23413 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:11:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA23408 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:11:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port089.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.89]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id SAA24516 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:11:00 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36A4DA8C.7158015B@ndh.net> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:18:44 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re:Dior book X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------2BA0424C8A9069C6B233FC07" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef --------------2BA0424C8A9069C6B233FC07 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > >2. The book states that models were called mannequins prior to WW2. Has > >anyone heard of this before? What was the reason for the change of name? > > I remember models being called "Mannequins" in Germany before the fashion > craze of the 1990s, when modelling became hip and a showbiz-like way of > making a career. The term "model" came over from America or the > international fashion scene. > > Not contradicting earlier uses of the word "model". > At least that's my impression... Dietmar?? > > Barbara Maren > I can only verify that. My grandmother and mother never used the term "model" before it appeared in magazines and Claudia Schiffer became famous. The usual expression was "mannequin" which originates from the French. But now it has got lost almost completely. Diana --------------2BA0424C8A9069C6B233FC07 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
>
>2.  The book states that models were called mannequins prior to WW2.  Has
>anyone heard of this before?  What was the reason for the change of name?

I remember models being called "Mannequins" in Germany before the fashion
craze of the 1990s, when modelling became hip and a showbiz-like way of
making a career. The term "model" came over from America or the
international fashion scene.

Not contradicting earlier uses of the word "model".
At least that's my impression... Dietmar??

Barbara Maren
I can only verify that.
My grandmother and mother never used the term "model" before it appeared in
magazines and Claudia Schiffer became famous.
The usual expression was "mannequin" which originates from the French.
But now it has got lost almost completely.

Diana --------------2BA0424C8A9069C6B233FC07-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 12:59:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13717 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:59:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA23295; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:20:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA07003 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA06992 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:06:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kimberlykdobbs@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id DZCH8P6R; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:05:23 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:57:41 -0600 Subject: H-COST: Digest??? Message-ID: <19990119.120032.-142239.3.kimberlykdobbs@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,6-9 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Kimberly K Dobbs Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kimberly K Dobbs Hi everyone, Can someone tell me how to switch to digest on this list? I have tried everything I know how and it still isn't working. Help!! Thanks in advance! Kimberly _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 13:05:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13781 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:05:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA24380; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:26:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA07969 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:12:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from mb06.swip.net (mb06.swip.net [193.12.122.210]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA07949 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:12:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.244.77.43] (dialup77-1-43.swipnet.se [130.244.77.43]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA19300 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:12:48 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: md21199@dredd.swip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199901191655.KAA11682@post.its.mcw.edu> References: from "SNSpies@aol.com" at Jan 19, 99 00:56:21 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:13:34 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ninni M Pettersson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re:"mannequin" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ninni M Pettersson At 17.55 +0100 99-01-19, Marie Schulte wrote: >-Poster: Marie Schulte > >In the Dorothy Sayers novel _Have His Carcase_ the term 'mannequin' is >used. It refers to a minor character who does modelling. I cannot recall >exactly when the book was written, but my guess is between 1932 and 1937. It was 1932. Another costume question regarding a Sayers' novel: In _Busman's Honeymoon_, written 1937 (where Harriet and Lord Peter gets married), Harriet Vane's wedding gown is described as "period gown in stiff gold brocade, long sleeves, square neck" and the Dean likens her to "a Renaissance portrait stepped out of it's frame". I've always had great difficulties visualizing this dress. What kind of dress would have been described as a period gown in 1937? What could Renaissance mean in this context - Italian Ren, English Tudor, or what? Are there any photos on the web somewhere that may help me get to grips with this dress? /Ninni Pettersson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 13:17:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13848 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:17:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA26962; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:38:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA10317 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:25:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from isomedia.com (root@watson.isomedia.com [207.149.221.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA10305 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:25:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from wingate (pm515.isomedia.com [207.149.222.222]) by isomedia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA09803 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:47:30 -0800 From: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re:"mannequin" Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:25:07 -0800 Message-ID: <001101be43d9$0a697440$47de95cf@wingate> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" That sounds Tudor to me. ~G > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Ninni M Pettersson > Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 10:14 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Re:"mannequin" > > > > -Poster: Ninni M Pettersson > > At 17.55 +0100 99-01-19, Marie Schulte wrote: > >-Poster: Marie Schulte > > > >In the Dorothy Sayers novel _Have His Carcase_ the term 'mannequin' is > >used. It refers to a minor character who does modelling. I > cannot recall > >exactly when the book was written, but my guess is between 1932 and 1937. > > It was 1932. > > Another costume question regarding a Sayers' novel: In _Busman's > Honeymoon_, written 1937 (where Harriet and Lord Peter gets married), > Harriet Vane's wedding gown is described as "period gown in stiff gold > brocade, long sleeves, square neck" and the Dean likens her to "a > Renaissance portrait stepped out of it's frame". I've always had great > difficulties visualizing this dress. What kind of dress would have been > described as a period gown in 1937? What could Renaissance mean in this > context - Italian Ren, English Tudor, or what? Are there any photos on the > web somewhere that may help me get to grips with this dress? > > /Ninni Pettersson > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 14:08:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14132 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:08:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04100; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:29:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA18671 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:16:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA18608 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:16:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA21773 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:15:31 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp189-136.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.136]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA15582 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:15:09 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199901191915.UAA15582@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Handbook of German Costume Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:18:08 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hello, Penny wrote: > I just gave a makeover to one of my websites, Handbuch der Deutschen Tracht > (The Handbook of German Dress). It is located at > http://www.costumegallery.com/germbook.htm This is a German historic > costume book printed in 1892. Sorry to be grumpy again, but I make it a rule not to trust costumebooks earlier than say the seventies of this century (and even then I'm careful). I recognised several of the drawings as being rather inept re-drawings of well known sources (Manesse manuscript, Tourneybook of Roy Rene (not all of them are German!), Albrecht Duerer, Cranach, etc. (of course I only looked at sources from before ca 1530) Especially the medieval ones are rather untrustworthy. DO NOT COPY or try to make a costume after them. By the way, the people in the 'poor sections' were by no means all poor. Common burghers and strolling players, they were, but not many beggars or poor farmers. I suggest: go to the artwork of the real artists (lots on the web), try to see them in colour, and as large as possible. Don';t trust a costumebook of 1892 (or earlier: Braun & Schneider (1861-90) or Viollet le Duc 1880's), because the artists did not know what they were drawing and had no idea about sewing such a costume (as many on this list do) or what is was like to wear it. And even if they reconstructed costume (Mrs Ashdown, early 1900's, Dorothy Hartley 1931, Carl Koehler (costumes made after his patterns ca 1927)) they didn't look at all like the originals. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 14:31:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14247 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:31:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA07649; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:53:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA22084 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:39:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA22070 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:39:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.213 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:39:12 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Medieval Textiles and Embroideries of Scandinavia Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:27:30 -0500 Message-ID: <000e01be43e4$04c86900$5f14ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Stockholm's Museum of National Antiquities has a stunning web page called The Textile Chamber at http://www.rashm.se/shm/museet/textil/textilkammaren-e.html. The double-cloth and the soumak-woven hanging are my favorites. The hanging portrays people in costume, which is very interesting. One piece of Opus Anglicanum is shown. All too brief, but worth a visit! Don't miss the 19,2 cm Queen's (?) gold broach from the 14th century which looks like a rose window with chimera found in a river in 1818 in the Medieval link at the bottom. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 14:48:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14338 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:48:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA10702; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:09:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA24935 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:56:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA24919 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:56:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA23269.; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:59:43 GMT Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:56:01 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:55:52 +0000 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Various Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id OAA14338 Status: O -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" Some comments on topics raised in the last few days' digests - Children's leggings; I wore these with my winter coat as a toddler in the early 50s. They were separate legs, not a pair of trousers, and held up by being anchored to some part of the person by tapes, but I can't remember exactly how! Michael Foreman's "War boy" is published in the UK by Puffin (ISBN 0140342990) Mannequins; my mother was born in 1912 and I've heard her refer to a fashion parade as a "mannequin parade". No idea why the term died out. She has also told me about using leg makeup and drawing fake stocking seams when nylons were unobtainable during the war, but I've never heard of a device for doing both legs at once. Renata - Yes, men commonly wore hats indoors in the 17th century (Pepys complained he had caught a cold from leaving his off) - even in church at this period, although you were supposed to "uncover" in the King's presence. I agree with other posters that wearing caps was more for warmth than consderations of decency, though I suppose a man accustomed to wear a wig must have "felt" naked without it. Kate Bunting Library. University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 17:53:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA15504 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:53:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA10763; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:14:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA00466 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:01:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA00426 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:01:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.133] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102k8p-0003gp-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:01:00 -0800 Message-Id: <4.0.2.19990119135448.00a40af0@mail.slip.net> X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:56:35 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Dior-stocking seams In-Reply-To: <199901190243_MC2-6724-6E7E@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 02:43 AM 1/19/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Melanie Wilson > >Having woken up a bit more I think eyeliner was the wrong term to use >(sorry I don't wear makeup !) eyebrow pencil maybe ? Any way it is a soft >leaded pencil, that was designed to be used somewhere near your eyes, >rather than your legs. I know everytime I dress up in 40s stuff out comes >that pencil & my Mum starts drawing on my legs :) I know it was quite a >skill to get it looking straight, try it it's hard ! > >Mel I'll vouch for that. Tried once, just for curiosity, as it's what my Mother & three Aunts did when they were in high school/immed. following. My conclusion? That's what sisters & best friends must be for... :-) Carol Cannon _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 17:53:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA15508 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:53:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA10786; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:14:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA00477 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:01:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA00431 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:01:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.133] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102k8r-0003gp-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:01:01 -0800 Message-Id: <4.0.2.19990119140001.00a401e0@mail.slip.net> X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:02:19 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Dior-stocking seams In-Reply-To: <24344-36A44551-108@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 01:41 AM 1/19/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) > >I believe that due to the shortage of silk stockings in WW II, many >women went without stockings. They put the line on the back of their >legs as a fake stockings seam. If you "saw" the seam, you must be >wearing stockings. Nylons were a few years in the future. > >Starsinger Yes, that's it exactly, as my maternal grandmother, who raised 4 who did this told it to me, with my Aunts nodding agreement in the background. Everyone agreed they were glad to be past that time. That was around the Depression in the USA. Not many had money for much that wasn't necessity. I'm not even going to try to explain how eyebrow pencil/mascara came to be a necessity. :-) Carol Cannon _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 18:54:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA16045 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:54:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA19110; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:16:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA09432 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:02:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from VAX5.ACER.EDU.AU (vax5.acer.edu.au [203.2.133.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA09403 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:02:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from exchange.acer.edu.au ([203.2.133.26]) by vms.acer.edu.au (PMDF V5.1-12 #22802) with ESMTP id <01J6RF8X26XY8WX04V@vms.acer.edu.au> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:04:09 +1100 Received: by exchange.acer.edu.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:57:05 +1100 Content-return: allowed Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:57:04 +1100 From: Harvey Georgia Subject: H-COST: 18th Century Frock Coat on Ebay To: "'H-costume'" , "'sca-garb'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Harvey Georgia I don't usually do this, but this coat is *amazing* to look at.... It's an 18th Century man's frock coat, with lots of tapestry, decorated buttons, etc. I found it while browsing on Ebay, and thought there might be at least a few of you who'd like to look at it, before it gets sold. Seems to me the reserve price on it is pretty cheap, but then I don't know enough about either the period or restoration of such a garment. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=57146102 I have absolutely no affiliation with the owner of this coat, just a happy browser :-) Georgia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 18:59:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA16079 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:59:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA19574; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:21:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA10093 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA10083 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:07:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.202.191.37] (ppp-134.pm4-1.grin.net [208.202.189.134]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA16407 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:07:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:07:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199901191655.KAA11682@post.its.mcw.edu> References: from "SNSpies@aol.com" at Jan 19, 99 00:56:21 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@grin.net Subject: Re: H-COST: Re:"mannequin" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: lilinah@grin.net "Mannequin" is still the French word for "model". I have a feeling the usage in English changed somewhere between the late 40's to mid-50's, but this isn't backed up by any hard evidence. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 19:45:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA16381 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:45:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA24536; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:07:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA15965 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:54:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from sun.rmci.net (sun.rmci.net [205.162.184.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id RAA15959 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:54:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 3991 invoked from network); 20 Jan 1999 00:48:14 -0000 Received: from pag-di43.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.43) by sun.rmci.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 1999 00:48:14 -0000 Message-ID: <36A526EA.2685A4A3@rica.net> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:44:26 -0500 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Getting rid of musty smells? References: <199901200007.TAA16144@sca.uwaterloo.ca> <36A5218F.C0288074@best.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jennie Chancey I am restoring a 19teens-30s lace wedding gown, remaking the underdress (which was in shreds) and repairing as the original lace overdress. The lace did well through a gentle hand soaking (lots of brown water rinsed out), but it still retains its musty smell. Anyone have any tips on how to get rid of that? Usually I find it goes away or is greatly reduced by the hand washing--but not in this case. Thanks! Jennie -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 20:44:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA16694 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:44:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA01203; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:04:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA22623 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:51:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net (crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA22612 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:50:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from alt1 (sdn-ar-001dcwashP106.dialsprint.net [168.191.20.66]) by crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA07061; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:50:53 -0800 (PST) From: "Allison Thurman" To: , Subject: H-COST: fashion theory Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:53:22 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2212 (4.71.2419.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Allison Thurman" >From: Laurel Wilson >Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:59:05 -0400 >Subject: Re: H-COST: dior and new look >- -Poster: Laurel Wilson >Allison Thurman wrote: >> i believe an issue of 'fashion theory" from last year >> discusses fashion in paris during wwII >Please, more information on this publication!Lauri regrettably, i cant find the article i was thinking of (and im kind of embarassed, because i KNOW i read this and cant find where!) but i did find one in the sept. 1997 issue about the forties fashion to new look exhibit in london - it was at the imperial war museum. fashion theory is a great journal - only 4 times a year but always packed with thought-provoking research. valerie steele is the editor, and the magazine itself is published through berg publishers in england. some specialty sewing shops carry it (like g st in dc) but amazon always seems to have the latest issue as well. allison _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 20:53:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA16754 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:53:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA01939; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:14:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA24087 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:00:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA24074 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:00:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo (port57.annex4.radix.net [209.48.225.185]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA25021 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:00:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901200200.VAA25021@mail1.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@pop.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:03:52 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: H-Cost: Your websites In-Reply-To: <990115192214.74072@centum.utulsa.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kevin + Mara Riley >> >>I believe that many of you have got own websites that deal with our >>favorite topic historical costuming!... http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Textiles_Page.htm Regards, Mara Kevin + Mara Riley Home Page http://www.radix.net/~lindo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 21:37:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA17069 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:37:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA06916; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:59:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA28744 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:45:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA28729 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:45:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-62-56.s56.tnt2.rcm.erols.com [207.172.62.56]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA01715 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:50:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00e201be441e$f86181c0$8956accf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: fashion theory Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:45:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" >fashion theory is a great journal - only 4 times a year but always packed >with thought-provoking research. valerie steele is the editor, and the >magazine itself is published through berg publishers in england. some >specialty sewing shops carry it (like g st in dc) but amazon always seems to >have the latest issue as well. Where does Valerie find the time to do all that she does? She must be a never ending source of energy. Thanks for the tip on the journal! Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 21:45:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA17106 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:44:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA07754; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:06:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA29503 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:52:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from camel8.mindspring.com (camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA29497 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:52:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from Eskimo.mindspring.com (user-37ka8mt.dialup.mindspring.com [207.69.34.221]) by camel8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA12308 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:52:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990119215302.006b233c@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: gunstonian@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:53:02 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Laurie L. Kittle" Subject: Re: H-COST: 18th Century Frock Coat on Ebay In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Laurie L. Kittle" At 10:57 AM 1/20/99 +1100, you wrote: > >It's an 18th Century man's frock coat, with lots of tapestry, decorated >buttons, etc. I found it while browsing on Ebay, and thought there might be >at least a few of you who'd like to look at it, before it gets sold. Seems >to me the reserve price on it is pretty cheap, but then I don't know enough >about either the period or restoration of such a garment. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=57146102 I agree it is gorgeous; however, it's not a frock coat--it's a long-sleeved waistcoat or vest. Laurie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 22:42:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17390 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:42:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA14253; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:04:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA05932 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:50:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from m26.boston.juno.com (m26.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.187]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA05927 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:50:54 -0700 (MST) From: wench359@juno.com Received: (from wench359@juno.com) by m26.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DZDKMMVU; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:49:09 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:42:00 -0800 Subject: H-COST: Q - Lace repair Message-ID: <19990119.194814.-263427.4.Wench359@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-3,5-6,8-9,11-19 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: wench359@juno.com My latest thrift score: A nice Edwardian(?) petticoat, with a drawstring waist and *lots* of pintucking and lace. The bottom layer of lace is torn, but not too badly. The rip is about 4". I'd like to repair the rip, but don't know where to begin. Recommended needle type, size? Thread type? The petticoat is also in need of cleaning. Would hand washing it in quilt soap be appropriate? Any and all assisstance greatly appreciated :) - Cat ---------------------------------------------- Mistress of Pewter Wench #359, Int'l Wenches Guild Executive Babysitter Starquest '97- '98 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 22:43:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17397 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:43:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA14360; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:05:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA05992 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:51:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA05985 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:51:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip11.an5-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.16.11]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24277 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:51:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A542FA.360675AC@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:44:10 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:OT/babushka References: <199901191433.IAA10515@naos.cc.umanitoba.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Linda Lassman wrote: > Around here, where there is a large Ukrainian (and a somewhat smaller Russian) > community, "babushka" is the formal term for "grandmother" (and also for the > scarves they traditionally wear--but you all know that ;-) ), but most people > actually refer to their "baba". It seems to be the same term in both > languages. "Bubbe" is the Yiddish/Jewish word for grandmother (as in "bubbemeise," which means 'old wives' tales'). It's usually pronounced 'bubba'--I wonder if they're related words. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 22:57:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17477 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:57:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA16437; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:18:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA07311 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:04:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA07306 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:04:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from slave (BayArea56k473.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.73]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id UAA18557 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:04:47 -0800 Message-ID: <36A554D8.6560@netwiz.net> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:00:24 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: spun silk References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi Emma Elizabeth Lehman wrote: > > -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > > Okay, so what's the difference between "reeled" and "spun"? > Emma the Non-Spinner I know! I know! (hand waving in air) Silk is normally "reeled" off the cocoon in one long filament. Many strands are then plied (is this the right word, guys??) together. When the cocoons are broken, either because the moth got out or the filament broke, the broken fibers are spun like cotton or wool. While reeled silk is considered higher quality, cloth made from spun silk has "slubs" and more texture. In Japanese, it's called "tsumugi". Dupioni is supposed to be woven from double cocoons. Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 23:11:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17552 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:11:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA18637; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:33:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA09109 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:19:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA09100 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:19:51 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LRVEa00804 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:18:56 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:18:56 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Wintersilks Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I don't know about that, but I DID get a Christmas (holiday) issue for 1998, so I guess they're still around. Order from them, so maybe their financial postion will improve! Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 23:21:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17605 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:21:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA20629; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:42:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA10094 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:28:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA10080 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:28:15 -0700 (MST) From: Seton1355@aol.com Received: from Seton1355@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 2NTGa06035 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:25:25 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <649380ed.36a55ab5@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:25:25 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Q - Lace repair Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 236 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Seton1355@aol.com First, I'd bet the pettycoat needs to be cleaned. Since I cannot see your pettycoat, I'd suggest first swishing it around in a solution of hydrogen peroxide & water.(50-50) Hydrogen peroxide is a kind of bleach...we use it to clean our mouths sometimes, so you can be sure it's gentle. If that doesn't "Whiten" your petticoat, then try Ivory Soap, the stuff you wash baby clothes in. Be sure to hand wash in a basin and also get all of the soap OUT of the peticoat after you've washed it. Is the lace completely missing from the bottom of the peticoat or just kind of hanging there? I strongly suggest that, assuming it is cotton, use only cotton thread to repair the petticoat. If you use a blend thread like cotton covered polyester , the cotton covering the polyester thread eventually wears off, exposing the polyester and the polyester part is much stronger than cotton, and acts like a knife, cutting through the petticoat. I lost a quilt this way once! I would try to match up the size of the thread to the size of the threads making up the petticoat. This should be no real problem. If the petticoat is like ones I have, your regular cotton thread should do just fine. If the petticoat is of a very, very fine cloth, then take it to a speciality threads/fabric store & see what size threads they have. Of course, mend it by hand (oh, use a small, sharp embroidry needle, or a "between" needle used in quilting would be best.) Take your time & make small stitches. You'll be just fine! Good luck Phillipa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 23:23:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17625 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:23:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA21130; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:45:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA10727 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:32:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA10718 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:31:59 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id AGNHa20554 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:31:13 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <12efa2b1.36a55c11@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:31:13 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Joy Trim Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com Joy Trim is in Wilmington, DE. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 23:28:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17653 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:28:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA21519; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:49:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA11100 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:36:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from VAX5.ACER.EDU.AU (vax5.acer.edu.au [203.2.133.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA11075 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:35:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from exchange.acer.edu.au ([203.2.133.26]) by vms.acer.edu.au (PMDF V5.1-12 #22802) with ESMTP id <01J6ROT1S9HU8WX0XW@vms.acer.edu.au> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:37:38 +1100 Received: by exchange.acer.edu.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:30:37 +1100 Content-return: allowed Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:30:36 +1100 From: Harvey Georgia Subject: Re:H-COST: Getting rid of musty smells? To: "'H-costume'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Harvey Georgia - -Poster: Jennie Chancey I am restoring a 19teens-30s lace wedding gown, remaking the underdress (which was in shreds) and repairing as the original lace overdress. The lace did well through a gentle hand soaking (lots of brown water rinsed out), but it still retains its musty smell. Anyone have any tips on how to get rid of that? Usually I find it goes away or is greatly reduced by the hand washing--but not in this case. -- Jennie I usually find that adding a couple of drops of lavender oil to whatever I'm rinsing helps. I'm not sure of its effect on the fabric though...but as long as I add the oil to the water and swish it round, I've not had any problems with it on silks, or other materials. This is just what works for me - might be worth testing a small area of the dress? Georgia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 23:32:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17677 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:32:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA22192; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:54:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA11497 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:40:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA11488 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:40:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.96.178.25] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 102pRj-00025Q-00; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:40:51 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990120043930.006fab14@mail.widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@mail.widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:39:30 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: 18th Century Frock Coat on Ebay Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 10:57 AM 1/20/99 +1100, you wrote: > >-Poster: Harvey Georgia > >I don't usually do this, but this coat is *amazing* to look at.... > >It's an 18th Century man's frock coat, with lots of tapestry, decorated >buttons, etc. I found it while browsing on Ebay, and thought there might be >at least a few of you who'd like to look at it, before it gets sold. Seems >to me the reserve price on it is pretty cheap, but then I don't know enough >about either the period or restoration of such a garment. > They have the thing misnamed. It is not a Frock coat (which is actually a style of coat) it is not even a coat. It is a sleeved waistcoat. This is why the fashion fabric (brocade) is only on the front and at the cuffs. It is also why the sleeves are so tight fitting and the lacing up the rear. It is earlier than our period, and designed to be worn under the coat. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 23:36:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17701 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:36:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA22691; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:58:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA11987 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:44:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA11977 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:44:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.96.178.25] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 102pVA-0002Bg-00; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:44:25 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990120044304.006b6f40@mail.widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@mail.widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:43:04 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: 18th Century Frock Coat on Ebay Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ron Carnegie >They have the thing misnamed. It is not a Frock coat (which is actually a style of coat) it is not even a coat. It is a sleeved waistcoat. This is why the fashion fabric (brocade) is only on the front and at the cuffs. It is also why the sleeves are so tight fitting and the lacing up the rear. It is earlier than our period, and designed to be worn under the coat. Whoops...I thought I was posting to a different list. Of course it is not earlier than THIS list's period, it hardly can be ;). Probably dates from the earlier portion of the 18th century, not the third quarter (which the list I thought I was posting is concerned with. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 19 23:55:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA17802 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:55:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA24923; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:15:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA14090 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:01:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA14083 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:01:20 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id HKTNa23173 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:59:40 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <6b14dee0.36a562bc@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:59:40 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: kakofnitch Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com A kakotchnik is a Russian headdress. I'm sure some one can give you a good definition and a link. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 00:15:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA18518 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 00:15:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA26683; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:37:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA16920 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:23:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id WAA16913 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:23:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 5256 invoked from network); 20 Jan 1999 05:25:34 -0000 Received: from tntmodem1-221.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.133.221) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 1999 05:25:34 -0000 Message-ID: <36A58CC5.2194@mc.net> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:59:01 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: tin dress? References: <199901200428.VAA10116@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law At 09:38 19/01/99 -0700, you wrote: >I'm relatively new to the list and hope this question hasn't been answered. >I'm reading _Miss Marjoribanks_ by Mrs. Oliphant with great pleasure, but >am stumped by a reference to a character wearing a "tin dress." She's a >minor character, a tawdry and passionate contralto who lures one of Miss >M's suitors away, and one gathers that her dress is just one more marker of >her unfeminine showiness and tackiness, which she displays in particular >during a contested election. Here's the pertinent description: > >"She . . . was arrayed in the tin dress--her best available garment--which >was made long, according to the fashion, and which, as [she] scorned to >tuck it up, was continually getting trodden on, and talked about, and >reviled at, on that crowded pavement. . . . [The onlookers] saw, and even >it might be said heard, the sweep of the metallic garment, which was >undersgoing such rough usage, and which was her best, poor soul." > >Does anyone know what a "tin dress" is? How was it made--sheets of tin, or >some sort of knitted tin/fibre yarn? > >Thanks, >Anita Hemphill McCormick > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 00:35:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA18616 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 00:35:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA28936; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:57:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA18564 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:43:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA18556 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:43:25 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 7VFUa06037 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 00:42:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2b77f26a.36a56ccb@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 00:42:35 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 18th Century Frock Coat on Ebay Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com It looks like a sleeved waistcoat to me. I've never seen an outer frock coat with lacing down the back, or with the front and back in different fabric. Just a "WAG" on my part. Any other opinions? Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 03:57:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA25558 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:57:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA11691; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:18:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA00856 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:04:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA00847 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:04:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.197.21] (helo=slipnet) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 102tYs-000676-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 01:04:31 -0800 X-Sender: bridgeta@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 01:02:42 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Wanda Subject: Re: H-COST: Dior-stocking seams In-Reply-To: <4.0.2.19990119140001.00a401e0@mail.slip.net> References: <24344-36A44551-108@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Wanda they may have used a grease pencil too! So far as i know the one must-have cosmetic was a liipstick! Even during the depression most women had at least one lipstick!At 02:02 PM 1/19/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > >At 01:41 AM 1/19/99 -0700, you wrote: >> >>-Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) >> >>I believe that due to the shortage of silk stockings in WW II, many >>women went without stockings. They put the line on the back of their >>legs as a fake stockings seam. If you "saw" the seam, you must be >>wearing stockings. Nylons were a few years in the future. >> >>Starsinger > Yes, that's it exactly, as my maternal grandmother, who raised 4 >who did this told it to me, with my Aunts nodding agreement in the >background. Everyone agreed they were glad to be past that time. That was >around the Depression in the USA. Not many had money for much that wasn't >necessity. I'm not even going to try to explain how eyebrow pencil/mascara >came to be a necessity. :-) Carol Cannon > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 04:44:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA25857 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 04:44:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA12912; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:07:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA02777 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:53:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA02772 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:53:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-224.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.224]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id BAA21942 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 01:52:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A53858.3B2E9BBF@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 01:58:54 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Dior book References: <3.0.5.32.19990119124031.00983480@130.149.12.212> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, Barbara wrote: > I remember models being called "Mannequins" in Germany before the > fashion craze of the 1990s, when modelling became hip and a showbiz- > like way of making a career. The term "model" came over from America > or the international fashion scene. > > Not contradicting earlier uses of the word "model". > At least that's my impression... Dietmar?? I'm sorry, but I'll have to defer to those who know better than I. Haute culture was never my strong suit (no pun intended) and I live in the States, so I don't know the jargon. Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 05:15:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA26027 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 05:15:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA13734; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:38:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA18348 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:24:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA18212 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:24:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-224.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.224]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id CAA26456 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:23:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A53F8C.815C909@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:29:41 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: OT/babushka References: <199901191433.IAA10515@naos.cc.umanitoba.ca> <36A542FA.360675AC@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, Lauri wrote: > "Bubbe" is the Yiddish/Jewish word for grandmother (as in "bubbemeise," > which means 'old wives' tales'). It's usually pronounced 'bubba'--I > wonder if they're related words. In German, the word 'bube' means 'boy', and I'd be really surprised if there was that big a difference between the German and the Yiddish. Yiddish is a Germanic language (the word 'yiddish' comes from MHG 'juedisch'). But then, I don't speak Yiddish at all. Perhaps, since Yiddish comes from Eastern Europe, there is a connection. Speculating wildly, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 05:21:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA26057 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 05:21:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA13929; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:44:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA24779 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:29:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA24656 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:29:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-224.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.224]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id CAA27172; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:29:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A540D8.62FC682B@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:35:13 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com, JennieChancey Subject: Re: H-COST: Getting rid of musty smells? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, Jennie wrote: > I am restoring a 19teens-30s lace wedding gown, remaking the underdress > (which was in shreds) and repairing as the original lace overdress. The > lace did well through a gentle hand soaking (lots of brown water rinsed > out), but it still retains its musty smell. Anyone have any tips on how > to get rid of that? Usually I find it goes away or is greatly reduced > by the hand washing--but not in this case. I've heard great things about the product known as 'Fabreeze'. It's available at the grocery store. You simply spray it on and it lifts the smells out as it dries. I've never tried it though. A friend of mine uses vodka. Buy some el cheapo vodka without flavorings or scents. (Believe it or not some vodkas have them.) Dilute it in half or one fourth with water in a spray bottle. Lightly mist the fabric until it is damp and let it air dry. It's worked wonderfully. In service, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 05:32:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA26124 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 05:32:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA14266; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:53:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA09971 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:39:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA09864 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:39:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-224.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.224]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id CAA10010 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:39:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A5432E.AA0028C8@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:45:12 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Coffee Darkening References: <199901161916.OAA18940@jefferson.patriot.net> <36A28415.1526FEA0@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, I had written, > I found some wonderful raw silk in a bright yellow and I'd like to darken > it to a golden color. I'm not a tea drinker, but coffee is always at hand. > > Is coffee an acceptable substitute for tea darkening? > > Do I need to add salt as a mordant? Just to update everyone, I soaked the fabric today and it came out a nice mustard color. I used about six cups of dark coffee and a cup of salt in about six gallons of water. I didn't bother with decaffeinated coffee. Caffeine is acidic, but there is so little in coffee that it doesn't effect the acidity. Most of the acidity in coffee and tea come from tannin. Besides, I figured that the vinegar bath is more acidic than either coffee or tea. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 06:39:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA26439 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:39:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA16751; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 05:02:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA05050 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 04:47:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from onramp.i2k.com (root@onramp.i2k.com [207.75.224.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id EAA05045 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 04:47:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from raille(o7du15.i2k.com[198.110.185.15]) (1438 bytes) by onramp.i2k.com via sendmail with P:smtp/R:bind_dns/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:40:47 -0500 (EST) (Smail-3.2.0.99 1997-Dec-4 #30 built 1998-Oct-10) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990120065432.007ad100@onramp.i2k.com> X-Sender: alwen@onramp.i2k.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:54:32 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Lynn Carpenter Subject: H-COST: British Museum question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Carpenter One of my 11th century "sources" of costume information is an illustration in the front of a book called "British Poetry and Prose." The description reads, "Decorations on an Old English calendar show scenes from the daily life of Anglo-Saxon England. The illustration below, for the month of March, show laborers at the spring fieldwork. The manuscript of the calendar was done by monks at Durham in the eleventh century; it narrowly escaped destruction in 1731 in the same fire that damaged the Beowulf manuscript." The illustration has "(c) British Museum" at the top and shows four men in long-sleeved, knee-length tunics, either bloused or tucked into belts, raking, digging, and broadcasting seed. My question is, has the British Museum (or anywhere else) published this calendar? Does anyone know where I could find the rest of the months? I am sorry the information is so scanty, but that is all that is in the book. Lynn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 08:29:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA27101 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:29:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA21804; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:51:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA11167 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:36:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA11159 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:36:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.28] (ell44.acadia.net [205.217.218.28]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA07402 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:36:44 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:36:47 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: reeled silk Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Reeled silk is not plied together (which implies twisting), but several strands of the filaments are reeled off together, and the seracin sort of gums them together. About six or eight cocoons reeled together constitute a denier. <> Dupioni means double cocoon, and since the two are woven together, they can't be reeled, and so are either used for wadding or chopped up and spun. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 09:23:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27435 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:23:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA27593; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:46:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA16291 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:32:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from x15.engin.umich.edu (root@x15.engin.umich.edu [141.212.198.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA16277 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:32:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (parsla@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by x15.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA07082 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:32:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:32:06 -0500 (EST) From: Parsla Liepa To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: OT/Yiddish In-Reply-To: <36A53F8C.815C909@pacbell.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Parsla Liepa > > "Bubbe" is the Yiddish/Jewish word for grandmother (as in "bubbemeise," > > which means 'old wives' tales'). It's usually pronounced 'bubba'--I > > wonder if they're related words. > > In German, the word 'bube' means 'boy', and I'd be really surprised if there > was that big a difference between the German and the Yiddish. Yiddish is a > Germanic language (the word 'yiddish' comes from MHG 'juedisch'). But then, I > don't speak Yiddish at all. Perhaps, since Yiddish comes from Eastern Europe, > there is a connection. I was actually taught that Yiddish is a Pigeon (or a Creole, I don't rememebr which...), a strange combination of Hebrew and whatever the local language was. So you would get Russian-Yiddish, Polish-Yiddish, German-Yiddish, and so forth. Parsla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 09:25:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27453 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:25:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA27848; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:48:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA16511 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:33:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from x15.engin.umich.edu (root@x15.engin.umich.edu [141.212.198.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA16500 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:33:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (parsla@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by x15.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA07088 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:33:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:33:49 -0500 (EST) From: Parsla Liepa To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Getting rid of musty smells? In-Reply-To: <36A540D8.62FC682B@pacbell.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Parsla Liepa Wouldn't rubbing alcohol do the same thing, but more cheaply? Parsla > A friend of mine uses vodka. Buy some el cheapo vodka without flavorings or > scents. (Believe it or not some vodkas have them.) Dilute it in half or one > fourth with water in a spray bottle. Lightly mist the fabric until it is damp > and let it air dry. It's worked wonderfully. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 09:30:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27496 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:30:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA28461; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA17022 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:38:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA17007 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:38:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.16 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:37:45 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Coffee Darkening Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:40:56 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be4483$12ca3980$1014ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <36A5432E.AA0028C8@pacbell.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Silk enjoys a bit of acid, and it helps it to maintain its luster. Indians wash their saris in nothing but a little lime juice and water, and I've read other manufacturer's directions for washing silk, which recommend shampoo or similar soap with a final rinse of water and a teaspoon of white vinegar. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Dietmar Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 9:45 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Coffee Darkening -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, I had written, > I found some wonderful raw silk in a bright yellow and I'd like to darken > it to a golden color. I'm not a tea drinker, but coffee is always at hand. > > Is coffee an acceptable substitute for tea darkening? > > Do I need to add salt as a mordant? Just to update everyone, I soaked the fabric today and it came out a nice mustard color. I used about six cups of dark coffee and a cup of salt in about six gallons of water. I didn't bother with decaffeinated coffee. Caffeine is acidic, but there is so little in coffee that it doesn't effect the acidity. Most of the acidity in coffee and tea come from tannin. Besides, I figured that the vinegar bath is more acidic than either coffee or tea. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 09:30:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27500 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:30:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA28391; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:52:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA16982 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:38:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA16966 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:38:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.16 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:37:35 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: tin dress? Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:21:35 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be4483$09d96800$1014ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <36A58CC5.2194@mc.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Where does the story take place? And in what time period? Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Heather Law Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 2:59 AM To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: tin dress? -Poster: Heather Law At 09:38 19/01/99 -0700, you wrote: >I'm relatively new to the list and hope this question hasn't been answered. >I'm reading _Miss Marjoribanks_ by Mrs. Oliphant with great pleasure, but >am stumped by a reference to a character wearing a "tin dress." She's a >minor character, a tawdry and passionate contralto who lures one of Miss >M's suitors away, and one gathers that her dress is just one more marker of >her unfeminine showiness and tackiness, which she displays in particular >during a contested election. Here's the pertinent description: > >"She . . . was arrayed in the tin dress--her best available garment--which >was made long, according to the fashion, and which, as [she] scorned to >tuck it up, was continually getting trodden on, and talked about, and >reviled at, on that crowded pavement. . . . [The onlookers] saw, and even >it might be said heard, the sweep of the metallic garment, which was >undersgoing such rough usage, and which was her best, poor soul." > >Does anyone know what a "tin dress" is? How was it made--sheets of tin, or >some sort of knitted tin/fibre yarn? > >Thanks, >Anita Hemphill McCormick > ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 09:30:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27504 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:30:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA28445; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:52:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA17005 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:38:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA16995 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:38:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.16 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:37:42 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: OT/babushka Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:29:54 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be4483$10d2af40$1014ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <36A53F8C.815C909@pacbell.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" "Bubbe" is indeed the affectionate, informal Yiddish term for grandmother, as in "my Bubbe and Zede," meaning "my Grandma and Grandpa," and it is still used today by members of the American Jewish community. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Dietmar Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 9:30 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: OT/babushka -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, Lauri wrote: > "Bubbe" is the Yiddish/Jewish word for grandmother (as in "bubbemeise," > which means 'old wives' tales'). It's usually pronounced 'bubba'--I > wonder if they're related words. In German, the word 'bube' means 'boy', and I'd be really surprised if there was that big a difference between the German and the Yiddish. Yiddish is a Germanic language (the word 'yiddish' comes from MHG 'juedisch'). But then, I don't speak Yiddish at all. Perhaps, since Yiddish comes from Eastern Europe, there is a connection. Speculating wildly, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 09:47:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27613 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:47:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA00765; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:10:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA19501 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:55:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA19491 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:55:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA19910 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:59:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16906 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:57:07 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:57:06 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Fabricclub.com review Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed Just thought I'd let you all know what kind of linen it is that Fabricclub.com sells--my order arrived yesterday. It's a smooth weave, somewhat finer than the rather coarsely woven "linen-look" fabric you find at Jo-Anns & other local fabric stores, but not by much. It has more of a shine to it as well, and a very nice drape. Not handkerchief weight by any means, but good for, say, a lower- to middle-class 16th c. bodice, kirtle or jacket. at $5 a yard, I call it a great deal! Two thumbs up, Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 09:55:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27675 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:55:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA01701; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:18:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA20445 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:03:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA20435 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:03:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.16 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:02:54 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: OT/Yiddish Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:06:29 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be4486$945ecda0$1014ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Recognizing the strong similarity between German and Yiddish, I've always felt that it was a "pigeon" or hybrid type of language too. Jewish people sometimes find this concept offensive, saying Yiddish is an independent language in its own right. Whatever! There are no pure anythings, and haven't ever been, as near as I can tell. People are always borrowing from other cultures, it is just human nature. I was reading an ancient diatribe against the Vikings the other day, in which the complainer claimed that everything good in the Viking culture was not invented by a Viking, but borrowed from the Sythians! I won't tread on that one further, but I don't think Yiddish integrates Russian and Polish to anywhere near the same degree as German. My observation is that Yiddish was (an still is, of course) a language which connected Jews across national boundaries, just as nomadic peoples above the Arctic Circle around the globe all speak Inuit, regardless of the national language used by the government of the place where they are. For the Ashkenazi Jews in the northern and eastern European areas including Germany, Poland, and Russia, their common language was Yiddish. For the Sephardic Jews of Spain, Italy, Morocco, and other Mediterranean areas, their common language was Ladino. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Parsla Liepa Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 9:32 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: OT/Yiddish -Poster: Parsla Liepa > > "Bubbe" is the Yiddish/Jewish word for grandmother (as in "bubbemeise," > > which means 'old wives' tales'). It's usually pronounced 'bubba'--I > > wonder if they're related words. > > In German, the word 'bube' means 'boy', and I'd be really surprised if there > was that big a difference between the German and the Yiddish. Yiddish is a > Germanic language (the word 'yiddish' comes from MHG 'juedisch'). But then, I > don't speak Yiddish at all. Perhaps, since Yiddish comes from Eastern Europe, > there is a connection. I was actually taught that Yiddish is a Pigeon (or a Creole, I don't rememebr which...), a strange combination of Hebrew and whatever the local language was. So you would get Russian-Yiddish, Polish-Yiddish, German-Yiddish, and so forth. Parsla ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 09:57:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27685 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:57:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA01966; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:20:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA20813 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:06:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA20800 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:06:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip14.an3-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.14.14]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA18009 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:06:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A5E386.FB514CFB@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:09:12 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: spun silk References: <36A554D8.6560@netwiz.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Susan Fatemi wrote: > Silk is normally "reeled" off the cocoon in one long filament. > Many strands are then plied (is this the right word, guys??) > together. Precisely the right word. It is my understanding that this is what the silk 'throwing mills' which began to appear in the Middle Ages were doing: that is, plying several strands together to make a thicker, stronger thread. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 10:04:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27729 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:04:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA02515; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:27:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA21630 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:12:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA21616 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:12:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip14.an3-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.14.14]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA24442 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:12:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A5E4FE.BB6E03A2@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:15:28 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: reeled silk References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Deborah Pulliam wrote: > - > > Reeled silk is not plied together (which implies twisting), but several > strands of the filaments are reeled off together, and the seracin sort of > gums them together. About six or eight cocoons reeled together constitute a > denier. > I stand corrected--thank you, this makes perfect sense, and is doubtless what the throwing mills were doing. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 10:07:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27750 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:07:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA03076; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:30:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA22084 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:15:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA22072 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:15:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip14.an3-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.14.14]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA28020 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:15:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A5E5C3.539C74D8@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:18:45 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: OT/Yiddish References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Parsla Liepa wrote: > I was actually taught that Yiddish is a Pigeon (or a Creole, I don't > rememebr which...), a strange combination of Hebrew and whatever the local > language was. So you would get Russian-Yiddish, Polish-Yiddish, > German-Yiddish, and so forth. > > Actually, there aren't that many variants of Yiddish, or at least the ones there are are relatively close to each other. It's based on Medieval German, with some Hebrew and smatterings of all the other Eastern European languages, as well as some surprises: for instance, the Yiddish word 'aipikorus' (sp?), which means atheist, comes from the Greek Epicurus, who was a Stoic philosopher. My guess is that the Yiddish 'bubbe' really is related to the Russian 'baba'.Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 10:19:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27826 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:19:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA04789; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:42:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA23933 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:28:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA23919; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:28:04 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:28:04 -0700 (MST) From: Elizabeth Lear Message-Id: <199901201528.IAA23919@indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: kakofnitch Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Lear Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27841 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:20:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA04911; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:43:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA24035 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:28:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA24020; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:28:38 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:28:38 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901201528.IAA24020@indra.com> From: Hilary Doda To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #65 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hilary Doda Laurel Wilson wrote: >"Bubbe" is the Yiddish/Jewish word for grandmother (as in >"bubbemeise," which means 'old wives' tales'). It's usually >pronounced 'bubba'--I wonder if they're related words. As far as I know, Bubbe (Bubby, Boba, Baba, etc) comes from the hebrew word for Grandmother - Saba. The word for Grandfather is Safta, which gets transformed into Zaide. I don't remember where I picked up that tidbit, tho'. Possibly congregational school... anyone know a different source? ObCostume: I've been embroidering fake (plastic and glass) pearls onto cotton velveteen. I will eventually need to get the penciled-on guidelines off. I don't want to put it in the laundry, as I have a vision of it coming out all melted. The pencil lines are on the reverse (non-piled) side, and the fabric is 100% cotton. What's the best way to do this? Dabbing with a cloth? Shout stick? ;) Hilary Doda/Joane Steward _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 10:42:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27972 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:42:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA07674; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:04:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA28013 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:50:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA27988; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:50:01 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:50:01 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901201550.IAA27988@indra.com> From: Kristi Kelly To: h-costume list Subject: H-COST: Regency gown pattern suggestions Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kristi Kelly Hi, My girlfriend is going to a Regency wedding and needs a dress. I am looking for a pattern and I hope someone can point me in the right direction. Any material and trim pointers would be great! Also, any idea of what to do with one's hair? Hats were in? or were they just naked curls? Also, does the movie Emma with Gwyenth Paltrow give a reasonable idea of what the clothes looked like? Are there any other places that we should look? Thanks for your help in advance. IMPORTANT: I am not on the list, please send your responses directly to my email address. Thanks Kristi _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 11:22:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28220 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:22:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA13990; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA07681 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:30:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA07644 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:29:56 -0700 (MST) From: Luiseach@aol.com Received: from Luiseach@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LEJLa05506 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:24:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:24:32 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: OT/Yiddish Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Luiseach@aol.com In a message dated 01/20/99 06:32:46 AM, Parsla wrote: <> Basically the difference is that a pidgin language is only used for communication between groups, i.e. all speakers of a pidgin have another language as their first language. When a language that started out as a pidgin starts to be used as a first language, it becomes a creole. Yiddish is a creole and has been for centuries. Pidgin English is not actually a pidgin anymore, it has become a creole also. Lucinda, who had to take linguistics to get a speech/language patholigist credential _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 11:42:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28336 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:42:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA16699; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:04:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA11337 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:49:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE (mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE [130.149.4.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA11269 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:48:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.zrz.tu-berlin.de ([130.149.4.15]) by mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE with esmtp (EXIM-2.10) for id 1030oJ-0005jP-00; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:48:55 +0100 Received: from coal.bg.tu-berlin.de by mail.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE with SMTP (IC-PP); Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:48:28 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990120174913.009a0c30@130.149.12.212> X-Sender: barbara@130.149.12.212 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:49:13 +0100 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Barbara Maren Winkler Subject: H-COST: Re: OT/babushka/Yiddish In-Reply-To: <199901201432.HAA16301@indra.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id LAA28336 Status: O -Poster: Barbara Maren Winkler >- -Poster: Dietmar > >> "Bubbe" is the Yiddish/Jewish word for grandmother (as in "bubbemeise," >> which means 'old wives' tales'). It's usually pronounced 'bubba'--I >> wonder if they're related words. > >In German, the word 'bube' means 'boy', and I'd be really surprised if there >was that big a difference between the German and the Yiddish. Yiddish is a >Germanic language (the word 'yiddish' comes from MHG 'juedisch'). But then, I >don't speak Yiddish at all. Perhaps, since Yiddish comes from Eastern Europe, >there is a connection. >- -Poster: Parsla Liepa > >I was actually taught that Yiddish is a Pigeon (or a Creole, I don't >rememebr which...), a strange combination of Hebrew and whatever the local >language was. So you would get Russian-Yiddish, Polish-Yiddish, >German-Yiddish, and so forth. Yiddish: Grandma -- "Babe" or "Bobe" or "Bubbe" (English pronunciation) Grandpa -- "sejde" Russian: woman (derogatively), farmer's wife -- "baba" Grandma -- "babka", "babushka" witch -- "Babayaga" Slovak: Grandma -- "Babka" German: Grandma -- "Oma", "Großmutter" Grandpa -- "Opa", "Großvater" Special-style scarf, hose shaped, used much in the navy -- "Oma" Boy -- "Bube" (obsolete) Yiddish: Language of Eastern Europe Jews. A pigeon language with germanic, semitic and slavic elements: From mediaeval German (largest part), semitic: Hebrew and Aramaic (from the Talmud), slavic: Polish, Ukrainian, white Russian. Oldest written document in Yiddish: 1396 (That's what my 1955 Brockhaus says). Western Yiddish is closely related to German dialects but obviously vanished due to assimilation of the Jews in Germany and America (19th century). Modern written Yiddish apparently stems from Eastern Yiddish as spoken mainly in Poland. This would be the "u"-variant of Yiddish, spoken by 3/4ths of all yiddish speaking people, as opposed to the "o"-variant in Belarus, Lithuania etc. Yiddish was brought to Poland by German Jews who had to flee from Germany during the time of the crusades and developed there since the end of the middle ages. Most "basic" words are "like German" and even recognizable for a German reader. But there are too many words from other languages for me to really understand it without translation. ... guess which language(s) the Yiddish term for "grandmother" was taken from. Barbara Maren ... who shouldn't be doing this ... -- Barbara Maren Winkler barbara@math.tu-berlin.de _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 12:32:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28582 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:31:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA24766; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:54:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA21183 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:39:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA21167 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:39:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA25994 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:42:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA19999 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:40:43 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:40:42 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Sources for 16th c. make-up info Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed Hopefully someone on here can help... I've been looking for some good sources, preferably primary or containing primary quotes, on 16th century cosmetics and make-up information. Does anyone know of any good books or articles on the subject? Most of what I know is anecdotal and comes from other people--belladonna in the eyes, mercury water for the complexion, white lead on the face. Does anyone know where I can find the written info? Thanks much, Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 12:36:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28614 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:36:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA25908; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:59:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA22186 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:44:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from shepards.com ([192.104.69.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id KAA22167 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:44:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from sneffels.shepards.com by shepards.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA19793; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:56:37 -0700 Received: by SNEFFELS with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:44:18 -0700 Message-ID: <5DA4C4BE65D9D111A6FC0060081FD218D39D02@SNEFFELS> From: "Griggs, Margaret (SHEP)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Sources for 16th c. make-up info Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:44:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Griggs, Margaret (SHEP)" Here are a couple of links to start with: Avriel - Beauty products from the Dead Sea - http://www.37.cyberhost.net/avriel/beuatyhis.html Beauty in the 17th Century, http://www.nmm.ac.uk/ei/fact/beauty.html. I don't know how accurate they are but I seem to recall some bib info on one of these sites that may help as well. Maggie margaret.griggs@shepards.com -----Original Message----- From: aleed [mailto:aleed@dnaco.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 10:41 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Sources for 16th c. make-up info -Poster: aleed Hopefully someone on here can help... I've been looking for some good sources, preferably primary or containing primary quotes, on 16th century cosmetics and make-up information. Does anyone know of any good books or articles on the subject? Most of what I know is anecdotal and comes from other people--belladonna in the eyes, mercury water for the complexion, white lead on the face. Does anyone know where I can find the written info? Thanks much, Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 12:41:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28638 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:40:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA26731; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:04:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA23002 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:49:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from dns1.mcn.org (root@dns1.mcn.org [204.189.12.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA22967 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:49:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from 204.189.12.253 (pm25-2-men-a10.mcn.org [204.189.12.137]) by dns1.mcn.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id JAA11728 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:49:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A617FD.685B@mcn.org> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:53:08 -0800 From: Fred Struthers X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Hawaiian shirts References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Fred Struthers > > This is slightly off-topic, but I'm hoping someone will have an answer. > > A friend of ours went home to Hawaiian recently and my husband asked him > > to bring back a shirt. It's a cotton print, but the shirt is made so > > that the fabric is wrong-side out. My friend assures me that this is > > the way these shirts are made although he has no idea why. Does anyone > > know why they're made this way? It almost makes me want to take it > > apart and resew it. *almost* :-) Robb Shep tells me that this "wrong-side out" fabric is the taste of the Hawaiians themselves - that shirts made the conventional way were/are made for the mainlanders (this from a curator at the University of Hawaii). Any Hawaiians on the list to vouch for this? -- Fred Struthers http://www.mcn.org/e/fsbks _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 12:41:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28645 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:41:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA26715; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:04:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA22991 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:49:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from isomedia.com (root@watson.isomedia.com [207.149.221.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA22957 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:49:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from wingate (pm218.isomedia.com [207.149.222.81]) by isomedia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA02411 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:10:53 -0800 From: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Sources for 16th c. make-up info Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:48:27 -0800 Message-ID: <000901be449d$15b9b980$51de95cf@wingate> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" Drea, There is an SCA publication, The Compleat Anachronist, number 53 from January 1991 on Period Cosmetics for that timeframe that would be helpful. I don't have a copy, but could let you know how to get it from the SCA stock clerk, or our local Canton library for more on the sources. Email me privately if you think this would be helpful. ~G > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of aleed > Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 9:41 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Sources for 16th c. make-up info > > > > -Poster: aleed > > > Hopefully someone on here can help... > > I've been looking for some good sources, preferably primary or containing > primary quotes, on 16th century cosmetics and make-up information. Does > anyone know of any good books or articles on the subject? Most of what I > know is anecdotal and comes from other people--belladonna in the eyes, > mercury water for the complexion, white lead on the face. Does anyone > know where I can find the written info? > > Thanks much, > > Drea > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 12:43:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28655 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:43:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA27005; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:05:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA23207 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:50:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu (rumpleteazer.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.45]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA23198 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:50:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU (31907@ese.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.43]) by cats.ucsc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.4.cats-athena) with ESMTP id JAA12813 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:50:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ariyana@localhost) by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.8.8/8.8.8.cats-client) id JAA06839; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:50:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:50:17 -0800 (PST) From: Ariyana Kylstram X-Sender: ariyana@ese.UCSC.EDU To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #67 In-Reply-To: <199901201649.JAA11357@indra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ariyana Kylstram Ok, since only one person has gotten this right so far... a pidgeon is a bird (generally pidg-un, where I come from) pidgin describes a type of language (generally pid-gin -- not gin like the type of alcohol, but rather the same g sound as in again, the short g sound) Sorry, but the repeated abuse of birds to describe language finally got to me. Your frienly neighborhood spelling nazi .ari The Lady Ariyana of House Kylstram ariyana@cats.ucsc.edu http://www.kithrup.com/~ariyana/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 13:24:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28894 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:23:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA03227; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:44:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA00511 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:29:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA00503 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:29:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.190 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:28:25 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Russian Costume/Fort Ross Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:32:19 -0500 Message-ID: <000501be44a3$4b864000$1014ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" There is a big website for Fort Ross, the Russian-American sea otter fur trade fort, half-way between San Francisco and Oregon border, at this URL: http://www.mcn.org/ed/ross/gv.htm It links to period paintings of the fort, bibliography, book ordering information, and educational resources and contact names in Russia and Alaska and California. There is one photo of native dress from Irkutsk, Siberia, but I don't know how accurate these beautiful costumes would be for the time period you want to portray. There are photographs of the last living history costume day in July 1997 on the site. There are many women participants, but they are all pictured in American calico frontier dress and cotton bonnets. You can link to the various images here: http://www.mcn.org/ed/ross/Referenc/ref.HTM There are also links to people and information in the native American communites. If you can't find exactly what you need on this site, contact one of the Russians by e-mail and ask your questions. It is not at all clear that the dress with the shoulder straps we have been discussing is at all relevant, as the Russians seem to have originated in Irkutsk, Siberia, not western Russia, where that dress was more common. I don't have the answers, but you should be able to get started here. I've attached a bibliography for your interest: The Fort Ross Museum Bookstore specializes in books about the cultural and natural history of Fort Ross, California, Russian America & the maritime history of the Pacific Rim. PRIMARY REFERENCE MATERIALS ABOUT FORT ROSS INDIANS OF THE ROSS SETTLEMENT According to the Censuses by Kuskov, 1820-1821, Istomin 3.50 OUTPOST OF AN EMPIRE: FORT ROSS THE RUSSIAN COLONY IN CALIFORNIA, Watrous 6.00 (Basic history of Fort Ross during the Russian era.) FORT ROSS BROCHURE, California Department of Parks .50 THE CARETAKERS OF FORT ROSS AFTER RUSSIAN AMERICA, Fort Ross Interpretive Association 6.50 ( The history of Fort Ross after the Russians left to the present.) WALKING TOUR OF FORT ROSS, Fort Ross Interpretive Association .25 SELECTED HISTORY BOOKS ARCHAEOLOGY AND ETHNOHISTORY OF FORT ROSS, Lightfoot 25.00 (Excellent compilation of cultural and natural history of Ross along with contemporary archaeology.) ARCHAEOLOGY AND ETHNOHISTORY OF FORT ROSS, VOL. 2: THE NATIVE ALASKAN NEIGHBORHOOD, Lightfoot 35.00 CROSSROADS OF CONTINENTS, Fitzhugh/Crowell 34.95 (Excellent reference on the native people of the North Pacific Rim.) COLONIAL RUSSIAN AMERICA, Khlebnikov 21.9 (Journal entries written in 1818 by Russian-American Company official. Includes accounts of Fort Ross.) FORT ROSS: CALIFORNIA OUTPOST OF RUSSIAN AMERICA, Essig et.al. 12.50 (A compilation of articles about various aspects of life in the Russian colony.) HANDBOOK OF NORTH AMERICAN INDIANS, Smithsonian Institution Press VOL. 5 ARCTIC, VOL. 6 SUBARCTIC, VOL. 8 CALIFORNIA, VOL. 7 NORTHWEST each 62.00 HANDBOOK OF THE INDIANS OF CALIFORNIA, Kroeber 20.95 KHLEBNIKOV ARCHIVE, Khlebnikov 17.50 (Journal entries by Russian-American Company official detail life at Ross 1820 - 1822.) NATURAL WORLD OF THE CALIFORNIA INDIANS, Elasser/Heizer 15.95 RUSSIAN AMERICA: A BIOGRAPHICAL DICTIONARY, Pierce 45.00 RUSSIAN AMERICAN COLONIES, Dmytryshyn/Vaughn 40.00 (Research with many details about the colonies, including Fort Ross.) RUSSIAN AMERICA, STATISTICAL AND ETHNOGRAPHIC INFORMATION, Wrangell 18.00 (Includes ethnographic accounts on the Fort Ross area written by a governor of Russian America.) ORDERING INFORMATION (707) 847-3437 Fax (707) 847-3601 E-Mail fria@mcn.org Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 14:00:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29095 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:00:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA10445; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:23:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA07868 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:08:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA07857; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:08:20 -0700 (MST) From: Luiseach@aol.com Received: from Luiseach@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id VMCCa20554; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:06:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4af5cfd3.36a62924@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:06:12 EST To: ariyana@cats.UCSC.EDU, owner-h-costume@indra.com, h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #67 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Luiseach@aol.com In a message dated 01/20/99 09:50:49 AM, you wrote: << frienly>> oops -- I'd hoped that if I spelled pidgin right, someone else would pick up on it, the problem is that even if you ran a spell checker, they HAD spelled the bird correctly -- reminds me of an event announcement where the autocrat's spell checker had corrected "Gentles" to "Gentiles" and he didn't catch it before it went to our kingdom newsletter. Oh well. Happy Wednesday from not-so-sunny Riverside/Dreiburgen Lucinda/Luighseach btw, does UCSC.EDU stand for UC Santa Cruz? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 14:37:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29304 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:37:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA16593; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:00:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA15546 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:45:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA15515 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:45:07 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id EBKGa03543 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:43:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <91b9d6be.36a631fc@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:43:56 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: "unique" question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com This is off-topic, but you guys are the only sewing folks I know. Or sort-of know. :-) Anyway, I got my Clothilde catalogue yesterday and saw an ad for something called "unique," which is called a club. You send in $50 and they send you a video on how to take 47 different measurements, which you then send back to the company. Four times a year, you get pattern catalogues. When you order a pattern, you get one sized exactly to you. The ad says they have more than 200 patterns. Has anyone heard of or used this? I am okay with making up my own historic patterns, but awful at altering modern ones. It sounds pretty neat, but there isn't a number to call or anything. Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 14:39:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29322 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:39:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA16931; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:02:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA16169 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:46:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA16123 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:46:45 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 9JBUa05517 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:43:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <782e33f.36a631f7@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:43:51 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: hawaiian shirts Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com On the topic of Hawaiian shirts -- why are they so expensive? My parents were recently in Hawaii, and found that even there the shirts cost about $70. Now, my husband and I have lots of short-sleeved cotton shirts, and none of them cost $70! Does it have something to do with the dyes? The quality of the cotton? Or is it just a status thing? Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 14:44:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29362 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:44:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA17926; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:07:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA18091 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:52:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA17995 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:52:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.148] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1033fd-0005s4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:52:10 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990120112946.00911150@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:33:04 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: OT/Yiddish In-Reply-To: References: <36A53F8C.815C909@pacbell.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Yiddish is just this kind of hybrid. But it has more German in it than any other Eastern European language, at least as it is spoken in this country. My mother isn't Jewish but she minored in German in college, and had no trouble understanding Yiddish when she read "The Joys of Yiddish'. She kept commenting on the similarities between the two languages. >I was actually taught that Yiddish is a Pigeon (or a Creole, I don't >rememebr which...), a strange combination of Hebrew and whatever the local >language was. So you would get Russian-Yiddish, Polish-Yiddish, >German-Yiddish, and so forth. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 14:44:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29364 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:44:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA17938; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:07:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA18093 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:52:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA18022 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:52:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.148] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1033fh-0005s4-00; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:52:13 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990120114034.00c08100@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:47:50 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com, Kristi.Kelly@mci.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Regency gown pattern suggestions In-Reply-To: <199901201550.IAA27988@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows The standard advice is to go to pictures made in that period and see what the people in them are wearing. The artists of any time period knew what other people of that period were wearing, and they left pictures you can copy. Recent movies - and there are several recent Jane Austin ones - should get you thru one event. They aren't always perfect, but they ought to be good enough for what you are doing. The people who do this period more often than one wedding usually study period sources of information. You can probably get away with just watching a movie or two and making something out of one of them. Rent the video so you can stop it and take a close look without the dress you are looking at moving. >Any material and trim pointers would be great! Also, any idea of what >to do with one's hair? Hats were in? or were they just naked curls? > >Also, does the movie Emma with Gwyenth Paltrow give a reasonable idea >of what the clothes looked like? Are there any other places that we >should look? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 14:44:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29368 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:44:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA17937; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:07:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA18090 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:52:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA18006 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:52:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.148] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1033ff-0005s4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:52:11 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990120113740.00c0cb10@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:39:43 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: removing pencil from velveteen In-Reply-To: <199901201528.IAA24020@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Why bother removing the pencil marks? Are you going to compete with this piece? Won't you lining cover the marks? >ObCostume: I've been embroidering fake (plastic and glass) pearls onto >cotton velveteen. I will eventually need to get the penciled-on guidelines >off. I don't want to put it in the laundry, as I have a vision of it >coming out all melted. The pencil lines are on the reverse (non-piled) >side, and the fabric is 100% cotton. What's the best way to do this? >Dabbing with a cloth? Shout stick? ;) Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 14:45:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29385 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:45:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA18156; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:08:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA18304 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:53:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mux.engin.umich.edu (root@mux.engin.umich.edu [141.213.42.44]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA18270 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:53:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (parsla@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mux.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA15082 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:53:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:53:03 -0500 (EST) From: Parsla Liepa To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Wet dress? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Parsla Liepa I know that this same question was answered last Halloween, but as is too often the case, I don't pay attention because I don't need the info right then. I've got a costume party coming up. The plan is to go as a Dead Ophelia. How do I get the wet look? Parsla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 14:47:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29396 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:47:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA18529; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:10:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA18946 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:55:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA18914 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:55:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.148] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1033ik-0005yo-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:55:22 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990120115258.00c44a10@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:54:18 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: hawaiian shirts In-Reply-To: <782e33f.36a631f7@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >On the topic of Hawaiian shirts -- why are they so expensive? My parents were >recently in Hawaii, and found that even there the shirts cost about $70. Now, >my husband and I have lots of short-sleeved cotton shirts, and none of them >cost $70! Does it have something to do with the dyes? The quality of the >cotton? Or is it just a status thing? It may have something to do with the label/brand name, or it might have something to do with the fact that they had to import all the parts., or it might have something to do with custom designed cloth. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 14:52:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29429 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:52:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA19303; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:15:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA20023 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:00:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA20012 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:00:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01722 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:00:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A63601.D30CD46F@serv.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:01:05 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: H-COST: Reasonable Facsimile Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------3481A59D60C28A9FD8BF175B" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True --------------3481A59D60C28A9FD8BF175B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A friend and I were talking and it occurred to me that I have never seen an official definition of "reasonable facsimile". I bet that several of us has varying versions of a similar idea. So, please, tell us your definition. This is what we came up with. > > A textile, material or construction technique ( may or may > > not have been available in that time period) which can produce the > > silohette, texture or the general appearance a costumer is attempting to > > achieve by the use of that textile, material or construction technique. > > I guess I add a reason why the original can't be used. For me, there has to be a > justification. Such as "they would have used silk velvet in this time frame, but the > modern cost was so prohibitive, I used cotton velveteen". > So! Let me know what you think! Cynthia -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir --------------3481A59D60C28A9FD8BF175B Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A friend and I were talking and it occurred to me that I have never seen an official definition of "reasonable facsimile".  I bet that several of us has varying versions of a similar idea.  So, please, tell us your definition.  This is what we came up with.
  

> A textile, material or construction technique ( may or may
> not have been available in that time period) which can produce the
> silohette, texture or the general appearance a costumer is attempting to
> achieve by the use of that textile, material or construction technique.

I guess I add a reason why the original can't be used.  For me, there has to be a
justification.  Such as "they would have used silk velvet in this time frame, but the
modern cost was so prohibitive, I used cotton velveteen".
 
So!  Let me know what you think!  Cynthia

--
Merouda the True of Beaumaris
Barony of Madrone
Kingdom of An Tir
  --------------3481A59D60C28A9FD8BF175B-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 14:55:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29451 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:55:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA19606; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:17:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA20321 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:02:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA20311 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:02:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01740 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:02:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A63673.5EAE77FA@serv.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:03:00 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: removing pencil from velveteen References: <4.1.19990120113740.00c0cb10@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True I second Kayta's questions. Even if you are competing, the marks will never show even if you don't line the garment. I say, don't worry about it. :) Cynthia > Why bother removing the pencil marks? Are you going to compete with this > piece? Won't you lining cover the marks? > > >ObCostume: I've been embroidering fake (plastic and glass) pearls onto > >cotton velveteen. I will eventually need to get the penciled-on guidelines > >off. I don't want to put it in the laundry, as I have a vision of it > >coming out all melted. The pencil lines are on the reverse (non-piled) > >side, and the fabric is 100% cotton. What's the best way to do this? -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 15:07:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA29510 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:04:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA20755; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:26:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA22382 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:11:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mb06.swip.net (mb06.swip.net [193.12.122.210]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA22352 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:11:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.244.62.112] (dialup62-2-48.swipnet.se [130.244.62.112]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA01962 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:11:42 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: md21199@dredd.swip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000e01be43e4$04c86900$5f14ffd0@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:13:11 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ninni M Pettersson Subject: Re: H-COST: Medieval Textiles and Embroideries of Scandinavia Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ninni M Pettersson At 20.27 +0100 99-01-19, Hope H. Dunlap wrote: >Stockholm's Museum of National Antiquities has a stunning >web page called The Textile Chamber at >http://www.rashm.se/shm/museet/textil/textilkammaren-e.html. >The double-cloth and the soumak-woven hanging are my >favorites. The hanging portrays people in costume, which is >very interesting. One piece of Opus Anglicanum is shown. >All too brief, but worth a visit! This must be knew! (Relatively so anyway, I didn't found it when I was looking for something from them during the discussion we had sometime ago about museums to visit for their textiles.) Anyone visiting Stockholm just *have* to visit the Museum of National Antiquities' Textile Chamber, all of the textiles on this web-page, and several others, are on permanent display. >Don't miss the 19,2 cm Queen's (?) gold broach from the 14th >century which looks like a rose window with chimera found in >a river in 1818 in the Medieval link at the bottom. In the basement of the museum is the new Treasury, where all of the silver and gold treasures pre-1600 found in Sweden (lots of Migration and Viking Era finds) are displayed. Before this was built (some five years ago I think) they were all locked away in a vault somewhere. Also a must-see. /Ninni Pettersson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 15:12:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA29603 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:12:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA22465; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:35:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA24386 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:20:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from yucc.yorku.ca (ioana@yucc.yorku.ca [130.63.82.32]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA24265 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:19:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ioana@localhost) by yucc.yorku.ca (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA04405 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:19:59 -0500 Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:19:59 -0500 (EST) From: Ioana Timariu To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Wet dress? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ioana Timariu On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Parsla Liepa wrote: > > I've got a costume party coming up. The plan is to go as a Dead Ophelia. > How do I get the wet look? > > Parsla Sorry, I can't hold this in: Water usually does the trick ;-) - (lurkin' ioana) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 17:21:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA30465 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:21:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA11728; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:45:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA17693 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:29:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from dias.net (dias.net [199.170.176.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA17671 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:29:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ophelia@localhost) by dias.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA15251; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:38:07 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ophelia@dias.net) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:38:05 -0600 (CST) From: "Sara J. Davitt" To: Dietmar cc: h-costume@indra.com, JennieChancey Subject: Re: H-COST: Getting rid of musty smells? In-Reply-To: <36A540D8.62FC682B@pacbell.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Sara J. Davitt" > > I've heard great things about the product known as 'Fabreeze'. It's available > at the grocery store. You simply spray it on and it lifts the smells out as > it dries. I've never tried it though. > It's called Febreeze, and I have officially finished off my trial bottle of it, and have thus far, been very pleased. Though it does help, Esp. if a garment is lined, to spray it both inside and out. I have also used Glade Neutralizer, Room Spray (just sprayed the clothing) and it smells like little herbal things... not those scents that come straight out of potpourii hell. (which do make me physically ill, hence the strong words) Though i'd be wary of spritzing it on old fabric... it is chemicals.. and god knows what they'll do to the fabric.... Though everything modern seems to be just fine. (Even my fake fur coat!!) spritz spritz! Sarahj _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 17:24:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA30475 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:23:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA11985; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:47:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA18063 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from dias.net (dias.net [199.170.176.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA18039 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:31:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ophelia@localhost) by dias.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA15314 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:41:47 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ophelia@dias.net) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:41:46 -0600 (CST) From: "Sara J. Davitt" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Getting rid of musty smells? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Sara J. Davitt" Wouldn't rubbing alcohol do the same thing, but more cheaply? Parsla But think of all the fun you'd miss going in and telling the clerk that you need that case of flieschmanns Vodka to get rid of the musty smells in your house!... not to mention if there is any left over! Sarahj **2Y's**UR**2Y's**UB**IC**UR**2Y's**4Me** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 17:53:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA30689 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:53:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA16571; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:16:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA23763 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:01:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mi.verio.com (mail.mi.verio.com [209.69.6.110]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA23678 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:01:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from rust.net (69-149.pop.sh.mi.verio.com [209.69.69.149]) by mail.mi.verio.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA19597 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:52:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36A66031.3E587594@rust.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:01:05 -0500 From: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen Organization: The Curiosity Shop X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Subject: H-COST: Re: OT: Yiddish Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen Yiddish is very likely a creole language much like Swahili or Cajun. A pidgin language is a hybrid of two or more languages developed as a means of communication between people who have no common language. Pidgins have their own grammar and vocabulary taken partly from the common languages and some unique to the new language. Pidgin languages become creoles when one group of people start using the language as their native tongue. A creole is not a 'second rate language', but rather one that is not specifically linked to one nationality, but rather a cultural group. The dominant root language is usually that of the dominant group that contributed to the pidgin/creole if there is one dominant language. Variations of German dominates Yiddish, but there are some of Hebrew words as well as other Easter European languages. My nieces both call their father's mother 'Grandma Bubbe' and their mother's mother 'Grandma Nana' to keep them straight. :-) Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@rust.net Visit our web site, "The Curiosity Shop" http://www.rust.net/~gwjchris/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 18:16:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA30825 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:16:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA20063; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:39:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA28141 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:24:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA28125 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:24:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip220-29.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.29]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA25239 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:23:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990119165413.009d0460@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:54:13 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk Cords In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings! >You can get wonderful silk thread from one of any of the suppliers listed >below. It is a list of suggested suppliers which is provided to tablet >weavers. Cheers! Nancy Wow, thank you! Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 18:49:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA31011 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:49:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA25074; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:12:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA03791 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:57:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA03776 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:57:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from ibm.net (slip129-37-167-60.pq.ca.ibm.net [129.37.167.60]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA58890 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:57:32 GMT Message-Id: <199901202357.XAA58890@out2.ibm.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:56:04 -0500 From: Hilary Doda To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #68 X-Mailer: Hilary Doda's registered AK-Mail 3.0b [eng] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hilary Doda >>ObCostume: I've been embroidering fake (plastic and glass) pearls onto >>cotton velveteen. I will eventually need to get the penciled-on guidelines >>off. Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Why bother removing the pencil marks? Are you going to compete with this >piece? Won't you lining cover the marks? Yes, I've been thinking about entering it in an A&S, and no, the marks won't get covered. They're not horribly visible (light pencil, *bright* red velveteen), but I do want to get rid of them. Besides - even if they were covered, *I'd* still know they were there. :} So - is gentle dabbing still my best bet? Hilary/Joane _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 18:51:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA31029 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:51:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA25374; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:14:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA04063 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:59:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA04033 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:59:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from clough (207-172-113-226.s226.tnt5.ann.erols.com [207.172.113.226]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA03011 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:59:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:59:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901202359.SAA03011@smtp3.erols.com> X-Sender: clough@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda and Larry Clough Subject: H-COST: Neck Ruffs Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough I need to make a neck ruff, not a huge Elizabethan one, but a smallish Cavalier or Rembrandt-like one. What is the geometry of this? I realized that if I took a long rectangle of fabric, gathered it along the long edge, and then put it around my neck, that the ruffles would unruffle at the outer circumference -- not the right effect. Should I be cutting a doughtnut-shaped piece of fabric, the inner hole rather larger than my neck measurement, and then gathering around the inner hole so it fits my neck? I feel sure this is an easy problem in topology, that others before me have solved. Brenda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 19:01:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA31092 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:01:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA27113; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:25:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA05724 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:10:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA05718 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:10:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA02762 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:10:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A6707D.E08C59B2@serv.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:10:38 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #68 References: <199901202357.XAA58890@out2.ibm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > Yes, I've been thinking about entering it in an A&S, and no, the marks > won't get covered. They're not horribly visible (light pencil, *bright* > red velveteen), but I do want to get rid of them. Besides - even if they > were covered, *I'd* still know they were there. :} I know how that is. You said they were on the inside on the cloth right? > So - is gentle dabbing still my best bet? I doubt it. Graphite (pencil lead isn't lead anymore) wouldn't dab I don't think. Actually if the pencil marks are on the inside (wrong side) of velveteen, I would try erasing it. Yes, that's right, try an eraser. Make sure it's a clean, soft, *fresh* eraser, *NOT* an old, hard, dry thing. Rub the eraser on paper to get any graphite off between rubbings, assuming it has started to work for you. If the pencil marks are on the plush side (right side), I don't know what I'd do. The eraser on the plush side would pull out all your lovely plushie bits. In fact, before trying too hard on the wrong side do a test swatch. Too much hard rubbing, even on the wrong side, might pull out all your little plushie bits even from the back. Hope you find something that works. Worse case scenario would be lining it. I love lining because it covers up any ookie things, and it makes the garment last longer. I found when I lined my recent red velveteen cotehardie that the folds folded right. It actually made it look closer to heavier velvet. It added extra weight and felt great! Cynthia -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 19:02:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA31099 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:02:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA27192; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:25:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA05795 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:10:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from palrel3.hp.com (palrel3.hp.com [156.153.255.226]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA05773 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:10:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from xboibrg3.boi.hp.com (xboibrg3.boi.hp.com [15.56.8.159]) by palrel3.hp.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id QAA21980 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:10:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by xboibrg3.boi.hp.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:10:24 -0700 Message-ID: From: "VANVRANKEN,RUTHANN (HP-Roseville,ex1)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Fabricclub.com review Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:10:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "VANVRANKEN,RUTHANN (HP-Roseville,ex1)" How long did it take for you to receive your order? I ordered some on 1/5/99 and I still haven't received it. I did however, receive an acknowledgement of my order, so I know they received that. Thanks. - Rhodry > -----Original Message----- > Just thought I'd let you all know what kind of linen it is that > Fabricclub.com sells--my order arrived yesterday. It's a > smooth weave, > somewhat finer than the rather coarsely woven "linen-look" > fabric you find > at Jo-Anns & other local fabric stores, but not by much. It > has more of a > shine to it as well, and a very nice drape. Not handkerchief > weight by any > means, but good for, say, a lower- to middle-class 16th c. > bodice, kirtle > or jacket. at $5 a yard, I call it a great deal! > > Two thumbs up, > > Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 19:08:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA31164 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:08:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA28185; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:31:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA06539 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:16:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA06515 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:16:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo (port47.annex8.radix.net [205.252.108.47]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA03675 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:15:58 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.0.1.19990113213044.00fd6240@pop.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@pop.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:31:59 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: H-COST: undergarments In-Reply-To: References: <39577d32.369cbfb9@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kevin + Mara Riley >-Poster: Sylvia Rognstad (snip) >Btw, has anyone else noticed that it seems impossible to buy anything but >wonder bras these days, you know, the kind with underwires? I dont like >sports bras. I just want one of those little nothing kind of bras that >were so popular in the 70s that women bought to try to look like they were >braless. At least they were comfortable. Anyone know where to find one >of those today, or at least something without underwires that doesnt look >like one of those Playtex pointy things? Who still wears those? They >havent changed since the fifties, I dont think. >Sylvia R I've taken to cutting the wires out of my underwire bras. It doesn't cut down on their wearability, IMO... but then, I'm somewhere between a B and a C. Mara Kevin + Mara Riley Home Page http://www.radix.net/~lindo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 19:10:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA31194 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:10:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA28265; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:31:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA06581 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:16:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA06572 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:16:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo (port47.annex8.radix.net [205.252.108.47]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA03733 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:16:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.0.1.19990119214109.00e55c50@pop.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@pop.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:43:43 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: H-COST: Brief History of Unmentionables Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kevin + Mara Riley Did anyone else catch the 'Brief History of Unmentionables', or whatever it was called, on A&E? I taped it, and watched it the next day. It had some interesting parts, but I was sorely disappointed that it jumped back and forth between the 18th and 19th centuries, then mentioned the French Revolution as an influence on loosening up corsetry, so to speak.. then went right back to the Victorian era. The producer seemed incapable of differentiating between one century and another... Oh well! Mara Kevin + Mara Riley Home Page http://www.radix.net/~lindo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 19:20:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA31266 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:20:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA00791; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:43:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA08198 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:28:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA08184 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:28:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from ibm.net (slip129-37-167-60.pq.ca.ibm.net [129.37.167.60]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA228274 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 00:28:23 GMT Message-Id: <199901210028.AAA228274@out2.ibm.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:26:56 -0500 From: Hilary Doda To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #69 X-Mailer: Hilary Doda's registered AK-Mail 3.0b [eng] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hilary Doda - -Poster: Merouda the True >I know how that is. You said they were on the inside on the cloth right? Yep - on the non-piled side. Would pencil even show on the pile? >Actually if the pencil marks are on the inside (wrong side) of >velveteen, I would try erasing it. Yes, that's right, try an eraser. Make >sure it's a clean, soft, *fresh* eraser, *NOT* an old, hard, dry thing. Prognosis - success! The fuzzies don't come out. While it doesn't get all of the pencil off, it's certainly a lot better! Thanks muchly! >I love lining because it covers up any ookie things, and it makes the >garment >last longer. I found when I lined my recent red velveteen cotehardie that >the >folds folded right. It actually made it look closer to heavier velvet. It >added extra weight and felt great! Most of the thing will be lined - it's just that the way the turnbacks worked out on the sleeves precludes lining. . I've really got to learn to think things through more before I start them... :} Thanks again for the help! Hilary/Joane _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 19:31:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA31325 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:31:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA02523; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:55:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA09717 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:39:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA09704 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:39:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA02866 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:39:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A67772.A2D5FC90@serv.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:40:18 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #69 References: <199901210028.AAA228274@out2.ibm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > Yep - on the non-piled side. Would pencil even show on the pile? Probably depends on the pencil # and how hard you tried. Come to think of it, it would probably futz up the pile considerably. > >velveteen, I would try erasing it. Yes, that's right, try an eraser. > Prognosis - success! The fuzzies don't come out. While it doesn't get all > of the pencil off, it's certainly a lot better! Thanks muchly! Fantastic!!! > Most of the thing will be lined - it's just that the way the turnbacks > worked out on the sleeves precludes lining. . I've really got to > learn to think things through more before I start them... :} Gosh, I wouldn't know anything about that kind of dilemma. Moi? *innocent look* *G* Cynthia -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 19:46:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA31415 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:46:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA04760; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:10:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA11626 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:55:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from photon.soltec.net (photon.soltec.net [206.148.208.27]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA11612 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:54:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.148.209.25] (ppp25.cu.soltec.net [206.148.209.25]) by photon.soltec.net (8.8.8/8.8.9) with SMTP id SAA21201 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:54:49 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199901210054.SAA21201@photon.soltec.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:49:16 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: OT/Yiddish From: "Susan Krakower" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_2999702956_182303_MIME_Part" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Krakower" > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_2999702956_182303_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >Recognizing the strong similarity between German and >Yiddish, I've always felt that it was a "pigeon" or hybrid >type of language too. Jewish people sometimes find this >concept offensive, saying Yiddish is an independent language >in its own right. Whatever! There are no pure anythings, >and haven't ever been, as near as I can tell. People are >always borrowing from other cultures, it is just human >nature. The similarity between German and Yiddish is obvious, it sounds the same, as well as uses many of the same words. But sometimes the words may have slightly different meanings. Such as the word for man, which in German is "mench" but in Yiddish it means a gentleman, or someone of good and thoughtful manners. The German also has a history of having a formal, or high German, and a low German, which is the language of the commoner. (This is from the olden days ;-) The Yiddish language is adapted from this low German language in which there were differences from the German that we know now, or High German. The main thing that made Yiddish different, as Ladino different is that it was written using the Hebrew alphabet and characters. This was purposely done so that not everyone could read it and understand what was being said. The Jews suffered many persecutions, and needed at time a way of secretly sending messages. This was the way. The reason some may think that it is a pigeon, or hybrid language may be because the language wasn't dynamic like most languages are where new words are added all the time, as technology and other new items and concepts are added to our lifestyle. So instead of adding new words in Yiddish, since the low German wasn't really spoken anymore, people would add the words that they knew in there present language. If someone from Russia were to talk Yiddish to someone in the United States, there would still be a number of words that would not be understood. Such as there is no word in Yiddish for car, so everyone from whatever country they come from have added to the language in there own. I hope this helps in understanding the language. Then Ladino is a similar language only based on Spanish, rather than German. Any other questions on this I will be glad to answer privately. Susan highland@soltec.net --MS_Mac_OE_2999702956_182303_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: H-COST: Re: OT/Yiddish
>Recognizing the strong similarity between German and
>Yiddish, I've always felt that it was a "pigeon" or hybrid >type of language too. Jewish people sometimes find this
>concept offensive, saying Yiddish is an independent language
>in its own right. Whatever! There are no pure anythings,
>and haven't ever been, as near as I can tell. People are
>always borrowing from other cultures, it is just human
>nature.

The similarity between German and Yiddish is obvious, it sounds the same, a= s well as uses many of the same words. But sometimes the words may have slig= htly different meanings. Such as the word for man, which in German is "= mench" but in Yiddish it means a gentleman, or someone of good and thou= ghtful manners. The German also has a history of having a formal, or high Ge= rman, and a low German, which is the language of the commoner. (This is from= the olden days ;-) The Yiddish language is adapted from this low German lan= guage in which there were differences from the German that we know now, or H= igh German. The main thing that made Yiddish different, as Ladino different = is that it was written using the Hebrew alphabet and characters. This was pu= rposely done so that not everyone could read it and understand what was bein= g said. The Jews suffered many persecutions, and needed at time a way of sec= retly sending messages. This was the way. The reason some may think that it = is a pigeon, or hybrid language may be because the language wasn't dynamic l= ike most languages are where new words are added all the time, as technology= and other new items and concepts are added to our lifestyle. So instead of = adding new words in Yiddish, since the low German wasn't really spoken anymo= re, people would add the words that they knew in there present language. If = someone from Russia were to talk Yiddish to someone in the United States, th= ere would still be a number of words that would not be understood. Such as t= here is no word in Yiddish for car, so everyone from whatever country they c= ome from have added to the language in there own. I hope this helps in under= standing the language. Then Ladino is a similar language only based on Spani= sh, rather than German.

Any other questions on this I will be glad to answer privately.

Susan
highland@soltec.net --MS_Mac_OE_2999702956_182303_MIME_Part-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 20:19:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA31598 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:19:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA09431; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:43:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA16052 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:28:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from ns2.requestltd.com (ns2.requestltd.com [204.95.200.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id SAA16036 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:28:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialin05.requestltd.com (dialin05.requestltd.com [204.95.200.229]) by ns2.requestltd.com (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id ka095690 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:32:03 -0600 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199901210016.RAA06550@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:35:40 -0600 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: "Carrie J. Bryant" Subject: Re: H-COST: Getting rid of musty smells? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carrie J. Bryant" Another treatment I've heard of is to put baking soda in a large plastic bag, put the garment in the bag, shake it around and leave it in the bag for several days. Carrie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 20:23:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA31622 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:23:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA09932; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:47:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA16473 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:31:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA16466 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:31:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.202.189.181] (ppp-181.pm4-1.grin.net [208.202.189.181]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA08841 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:31:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:31:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000301be4486$945ecda0$1014ffd0@default> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@grin.net Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: OT/Yiddish Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Hope H. Dunlap wrote: > >Recognizing the strong similarity between German and >Yiddish, I've always felt that it was a "pigeon" or hybrid >type of language too. There is a strong similarity between German and Yiddish because Yiddish IS a from of German, basically Medieval High German, with new words borrowed from other languages, just as English has foreign loan words. Yiddish isn't a pidgin or creole. >Jewish people sometimes find this >concept offensive, saying Yiddish is an independent language >in its own right. Whatever! The terms pidgin and creole aren't insulting, but they do have specific linguistic meanings. Yiddish isn't an example of either of them. >but I don't think Yiddish integrates >Russian and Polish to anywhere near the same degree as >German. Yiddish doesn't integrate German, it IS a form of German. Unless you mean that German integrates Russian and Polish more than Yiddish integrates them. I don't know enough modern German to comment on that. >My observation is that Yiddish was (an still is, of course) >a language which connected Jews across national boundaries, >just as nomadic peoples above the Arctic Circle around the >globe all speak Inuit, regardless of the national language >used by the government of the place where they are. For the >Ashkenazi Jews in the northern and eastern European areas >including Germany, Poland, and Russia, their common language >was Yiddish. This is essentially true, or at least was before the Nazi Holocaust. There is currently something of a Yiddish revival going on among USA Jews, reviving the language, the theater, the songs, the literature, the poetry, etc. >For the Sephardic Jews of Spain, Italy, >Morocco, and other Mediterranean areas, their common >language was Ladino. And Ladino is basically Medieval Spanish, what the Jews spoke before they were driven from Spain in 1492, and continue to speak wherever they moved. It is not a pidgin or creole language either. What some may find confusing is that both Yiddish and Ladino are often written using the Hebrew alephbeth. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 20:25:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA31640 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:25:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA10071; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:48:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA16736 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:33:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA16690 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:33:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.202.189.181] (ppp-181.pm4-1.grin.net [208.202.189.181]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA08939 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:33:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:33:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199901210054.SAA21201@photon.soltec.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@grin.net Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: OT/Yiddish Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Susan Krakower wrote: >> The similarity between German and Yiddish is obvious, it sounds the >>same, as well as uses many of the same words. But sometimes the words may >>have slightly different meanings. Such as the word for man, which in >>German is "mench" but in Yiddish it means a gentleman, or someone of good >>and thoughtful manners. The German also has a history of having a formal, >>or high German, and a low German, which is the language of the commoner. >>(This is from the olden days ;-) The Yiddish language is adapted from >>this low German language in which there were differences from the German >>that we know now, or High German.<< This is untrue. High and Low are more geographical designations. Yiddish is a form of High German. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 20:50:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA31781 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:50:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA13098; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA20327 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:58:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA20294 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:58:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p9.directcon.net [206.170.184.58]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA11945 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:53:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:53:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901210153.RAA11945@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 06:59 PM 1/20/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough > >I need to make a neck ruff, not a huge Elizabethan one, but a smallish >Cavalier or Rembrandt-like one. What is the geometry of this? I realized >that if I took a long rectangle of fabric, gathered it along the long edge, >and then put it around my neck, that the ruffles would unruffle at the outer >circumference -- not the right effect. This is how ruffs were made in period. After all, many, if not most, ruffs were made of lace, drawn thread cuttwork, or blackwork, none of which would lend themselves well to a ruff cut on the circle. The common way of making ruffs by cartridge pleating them into a neckband seems to be a modern invention. If you look at period portraits, ruffs were gathered into one edge of the band and the large "S" curves were formed after sewing. They don't "unruffle" if you stitch or glue them together where the "s" curves meet. (in period, this was sometimes done with tiny balls of sticky wax). Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 20:57:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA31823 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:56:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA13997; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:20:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA21333 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:05:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA21320 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:05:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from slave (BayArea56k524.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.124]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id SAA07828 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:04:57 -0800 Message-ID: <36A68A3C.245E@netwiz.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:00:28 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: reeled silk References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi Deborah Pulliam wrote: > > -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) > > <> > > Reeled silk is not plied together (which implies twisting), but several > strands of the filaments are reeled off together, and the seracin sort of > gums them together. About six or eight cocoons reeled together constitute a > denier. But aren't they twisted together to make the individual yarns for weaving?? I assumed it would be like silk sewing thread, which you can see is "twisted". thanks, Susan -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 21:20:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA31964 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:20:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA17641; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:43:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA23878 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:28:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA23860 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:28:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo (port50.annex7.radix.net [207.226.55.50]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA18946 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:28:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.0.1.19990120211747.00f2e310@pop.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@pop.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:18:05 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: H-COST: A&E Unmentionables In-Reply-To: <36A33B5B.382B6694@earthlink.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kevin + Mara Riley No, it was pretty awful... Mara At 09:47 AM 01/18/1999 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: Laurel Wilson > >I have to admit that I couldn't watch more than about the first five >minutes of this: after they'd referred three different times to >underclothing being fetishized in the Victorian era and shown >eighteenth-century illustrations each time, I turned it off. Do I >gather from your comments that it didn't get better? >Lauri > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > Kevin + Mara Riley Home Page http://www.radix.net/~lindo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 21:20:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA31966 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:20:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA17649; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:43:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA23879 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:28:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA23836 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:28:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo (port50.annex7.radix.net [207.226.55.50]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA18937 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:28:20 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.0.1.19990120204853.00f73440@pop.radix.net> Message-Id: <4.0.1.19990120204853.00f73440@pop.radix.net> Message-Id: <4.0.1.19990120204853.00f73440@pop.radix.net> Message-Id: <4.0.1.19990120204853.00f73440@pop.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@pop.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:55:59 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: H-COST: Baa baa black sheep? In-Reply-To: <19033-369D667C-468@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: <"Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kevin + Mara Riley At 08:37 PM 01/13/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) > >My understanding of black sheep is that they are any sheep not white. >Black, brown, grey/gray, any thing but white. White was desired becase >it could be dyed. A true black sheep is usually black only for the >first shirring after that the coat gets lighter and lighter shades of >black due to exposure to the elements and age. > >Starsinger Actually, it's the effect of sun fading that bleaches out a fleece. I've gotten fleeces that are pure black on the inside, but the outer tips are faded from the sun, so you get a deep chocolate brown effect when you comb it all out and spin it -- a pleasing color, IMO. I suppose you could overdye this to get a deeper black. I haven't tried that yet, but one of these days I will. Mara Kevin + Mara Riley Home Page http://www.radix.net/~lindo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 21:21:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA31976 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:21:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA17699; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA23881 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:28:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA23848 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:28:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo (port50.annex7.radix.net [207.226.55.50]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA18941 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:28:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.0.1.19990120205420.00f7a5e0@pop.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@pop.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:55:14 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: H-COST: Baa Baa Black Sheep In-Reply-To: <199901141351_MC2-66A9-7CCF@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kevin + Mara Riley At 01:50 PM 01/14/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Melanie Wilson > >>It's my understanding that the occasional black sheep crops up naturally = >in a flock, but was regarded as a nuisance because the wool couldn't be = >dyed - hence the expression "black sheep of the family" for an >embarrassing= > relation. > >Well one farmer in Melton is having really BAD luck then, he has an entire >flock ! > >They can be bred that way, but there is a tendancy to have bred them out >historically, and yes you can get one crop up by accident from time to >time, in White sheep. > >Mel They WERE undesirable, but now handspinners love naturally-colored wool and these fleeces are in high demand! :D Mara Kevin + Mara Riley Home Page http://www.radix.net/~lindo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 21:21:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA31977 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:21:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA17715; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:44:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA23883 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:28:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA23869 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:28:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo (port50.annex7.radix.net [207.226.55.50]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA18950 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:28:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.0.1.19990120211901.00f6eab0@pop.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@pop.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:19:34 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: RE: H-COST: A&E Unmentionables In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kevin + Mara Riley At 07:27 AM 01/18/1999 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Betsy Perry > > >> Do I >> gather from your comments that it didn't get better? >> Lauri > >It didn't. After 20 minutes of shouting at the TV set, I turned it off. >You missed the wonderful corset collage -- discussing 16th-century >corsets while cross-cutting between 18th-century and 19th-century >corsets. Oh, and they propagated the iron-corset-as-everyday-wear myth, >too. > >My husband commented, "This is the most content-free TV I've ever seen." >It was very obviously a pretext to run modern girlie photographs. (How >_do_ they airbrush the nipples out of video images?) > _________________________________________________________________ Not to mention the bun and crotch shots of the male models... Mara Kevin + Mara Riley Home Page http://www.radix.net/~lindo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 21:47:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA32109 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:47:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA21430; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:11:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA26957 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:55:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA26942 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:55:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.169] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 103AHc-00071r-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:55:49 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:56:25 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Sources for 16th c. make-up info In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 12:40 PM 1/20/99 -0500, you wrote: -Poster: aleed >Hopefully someone on here can help... >I've been looking for some good sources, preferably primary or containing >primary quotes, on 16th century cosmetics and make-up information. Does >anyone know of any good books or articles on the subject? Most of what I >know is anecdotal and comes from other people--belladonna in the eyes, >mercury water for the complexion, white lead on the face. Does anyone >know where I can find the written info? Thanks much, Drea I don't have the info., but I would just mention that every one of those items can be quite toxic...& both mercury & lead cumulatively so... but you all knew that. Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 21:56:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA32157 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:56:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA22559; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:19:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA27862 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:04:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA27841 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:04:23 -0700 (MST) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ONPMa07005 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:59:18 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <296d0087.36a69806@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:59:18 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: undergarments Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 190 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 1/20/99 6:16:33 PM Central Standard Time, lindo@Radix.Net writes: << I've taken to cutting the wires out of my underwire bras. It doesn't cut down on their wearability, IMO... but then, I'm somewhere between a B and a C. >> Okay, I have some with and some bras without underwires. I am a D cup. I don't mind the wires but I don't like it when they push out of the fabric or break, especially when wearing them. Now over the weekend I was out shopping with the family and low and behold the wire poked through the fabric. I went in the bath room to try and fix it. I really didn't see how so I took that wire out. I wondered how it would wear, with one wire in and one out. They both wore okay but there was stress on the seam of the one without. This bra has the 2 thin straps in the front that hold the two cups together. I could see the stress on the one worn without the wire by the time we got home. The wire diffiently helped to keep the stress off the seams in that area. I beleive that if the bra had been made differently that the stress thing wouldn't have been a problem. I have heard of bras that had an elastic (braided i think) in place of the underwire but I can't find any in the stores. Does anyone know where to find some like that? Anyway that is just my 2 cent review. Kelly Albrecht m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 22:12:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA32246 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:12:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA24504; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:35:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA29385 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:20:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay1.Hawaii.Edu (root@relay1.hawaii.edu [128.171.3.53]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id UAA29376 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:20:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from uhunix1.its.hawaii.edu ([128.171.44.6]) by relay1.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <151005(8)>; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:20:21 -1000 Received: from localhost by uhunix1.its.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <135685(1)>; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:20:18 -1000 Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:20:15 -1000 From: X-Sender: lisaleon@uhunix1 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: hawaiian shirts In-Reply-To: <782e33f.36a631f7@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: > On the topic of Hawaiian shirts -- why are they so expensive? My parents were > recently in Hawaii, and found that even there the shirts cost about $70. Now, > my husband and I have lots of short-sleeved cotton shirts, and none of them > cost $70! Does it have something to do with the dyes? The quality of the > cotton? Or is it just a status thing? I vote for the status thing. Some brands are very expensive and there are "generic" types that you can buy at K-Mart or other discount stores for under $15. To be fair, some of the expensive brands _are_ very nice. Nowhere near enough to justify $60-$70 IMHO, but nice. The fabric is sometimes very smooth, fine, tightly woven cotton and there are companies that do have fabric printed especially for them. A year or so ago the local paper did an article about this very thing--quality of aloha shirts and the big price difference. Besides the fabric quality and prints some of the things I remember being mentioned were seaming and construction techniques. More expensive brands have flat felled or French seams with no exposed raw edges while the cheapie ones are just serged. Also, the front placket and pockets are cut and applied so the placement of the pieces on the rest of the shirt has the design matching exactly. They looked for puckering along seamlines, finishing techniques, quality of buttons, and I don't remember what else. You can get very well made shirts for under $30 on sale so I think anything above that is partly a status thing. Wearing a recognizable Reyn Spooner or Mamo Howell print shirt that cost $60-$70 is conspicuous consumption in the 90s. lisa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 23:15:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA32674 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:15:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA01679; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:39:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA06119 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:23:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from ic.net (ic.net [152.160.8.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id VAA06108 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:23:42 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199901210423.VAA06108@indra.com> Received: (qmail 4379 invoked from network); 21 Jan 1999 04:27:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO p4.a1.56k.ic.net) (152.160.117.4) by unknown with SMTP; 21 Jan 1999 04:27:07 -0000 From: "Steve & Michelle Plumb" To: "historic costume group" Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:24:38 -0400 Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: H-COST: Can velveteen be washed? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Steve & Michelle Plumb" Hello all. My mother-in-law has given me a large piece of cotton velveteen that she decided she didn't want. Before I make plans for this fabric, I want to know if (and how) it can be washed. It is definitely cotton, but I wondered if washing would affect the pile. Can I just chuck this in the washing machine? Thanks in advance, Michelle ================================================================================ Steve & Michelle Plumb -- splumb@ic.net Plymouth, Michigan HAL 9000: "Dave? What are you doing, Dave? Put that Windows 98 CD down. Dave?" ================================================================================ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 23:23:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA32730 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:23:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA02448; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:46:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA06967 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:31:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id VAA06813 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:30:48 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:30:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 18341 invoked from network); 21 Jan 1999 04:25:53 -0000 Received: from 42.64.3-8.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.231.64.42) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 1999 04:25:53 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990120203036.2a2fbb5a@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #68 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 06:56 PM 01/20/1999 -0500, Hilary Doda wrote: > >-Poster: Hilary Doda > >>>ObCostume: I've been embroidering fake (plastic and glass) pearls onto >>>cotton velveteen. I will eventually need to get the penciled-on guidelines >>>off. > >Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >>Why bother removing the pencil marks? Are you going to compete with this >>piece? Won't you lining cover the marks? > >Yes, I've been thinking about entering it in an A&S, and no, the marks >won't get covered. They're not horribly visible (light pencil, *bright* >red velveteen), but I do want to get rid of them. Besides - even if they >were covered, *I'd* still know they were there. :} > >So - is gentle dabbing still my best bet? > >Hilary/Joane Actually, if it's a regular pencil, just get a eraser from a quilt store (they work better than the old pink eraser on fabric) and rub them out. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 23:24:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA32740 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:24:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA02565; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:48:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA07150 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:32:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA07142 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:32:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.202.189.181] (ppp-184.pm4-1.grin.net [208.202.189.184]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA16933 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:32:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:32:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199901210423.VAA06108@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@grin.net Subject: Re: H-COST: Can velveteen be washed? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Michelle asked: >My mother-in-law has given me a large piece >of cotton velveteen that she decided she >didn't want. > >Before I make plans for this fabric, I want to >know if (and how) it can be washed. It is >definitely cotton, but I wondered if washing >would affect the pile. > >Can I just chuck this in the washing machine? Wash cold, dry cool/delicate/whatever is appropriate for your dryer. Wash before cutting anything out, since it may shrink. And after it's made up, keep washing and drying cool. I've had decent results. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 20 23:37:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA00096 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:37:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA04163; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:00:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA08389 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:45:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.rdu.bellsouth.net (mail.rdu.bellsouth.net [205.152.32.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA08379 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:45:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from bellsouth.net (host-209-214-161-121.rdu.bellsouth.net [209.214.161.121]) by mail.rdu.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA24882 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:45:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36A6B0ED.CC0CC378@bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:45:33 -0500 From: Renata McAdams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-bls40 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Various References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Renata McAdams Thanks Kate and everyone on this list for providing such excellent information. I cannot tell you how much I am learning in such a shorter period of time. From experience, I know doing research on my own can be an extremely frustrating and laborious task. You guys are great! Renata renatamc@bellsouth.net KATE M BUNTING wrote: > -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" > > Some comments on topics raised in the last few days' digests - > > Children's leggings; I wore these with my winter coat as a toddler in the early 50s. They were separate legs, not a pair of trousers, and held up by being anchored to some part of the person by tapes, but I can't remember exactly how! > > Michael Foreman's "War boy" is published in the UK by Puffin (ISBN 0140342990) > > Mannequins; my mother was born in 1912 and I've heard her refer to a fashion parade as a "mannequin parade". No idea why the term died out. She has also told me about using leg makeup and drawing fake stocking seams when nylons were unobtainable during the war, but I've never heard of a device for doing both legs at once. > > Renata - Yes, men commonly wore hats indoors in the 17th century (Pepys complained he had caught a cold from leaving his off) - even in church at this period, although you were supposed to "uncover" in the King's presence. I agree with other posters that wearing caps was more for warmth than consderations of decency, though I suppose a man accustomed to wear a wig must have "felt" naked without it. > > Kate Bunting > Library. University of Derby > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 00:41:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA01078 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 00:41:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA10375; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:05:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA15099 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:50:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA15086 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:50:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.153] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 103D0D-0000ft-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:50:01 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:50:36 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: H-COST: Cosmetics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" I put this question, in which the orig. msg. mentioned belladona for the eyes, mercury ... and white lead... to another list I frequent. Here's one response: The only thing I have is "Delights for Ladies" by Sir Hugh Plat which was originally printed in 1609 (only slightly late!). A facsimile was printed of it in 1948 by Crosby Lockwood & Son Ltd. It has sections on preserving, distillation, cooking, and beauty aids. Most of the beauty aid stuff appears non-toxic from the *brief* review I've done of the recipes. Looking in period books on cooking and huswifery will probably be her best bet. -- Elspeth So, there's one suggestion--good luck! Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 00:42:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA01085 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 00:42:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA10466; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:06:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA15158 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:50:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.inil.com (inil.com [206.31.32.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA15142 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:50:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.176.240.30] by mail.inil.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 177-57935U7500L650S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:50:31 -0600 X-Sender: baddorf@pop3.inil.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:52:48 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Deb Baddorf Subject: H-COST: tiny waists, photos Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Deb Baddorf I'm way behind in reading my mail, so I hope nobody already posted these links. But here are three photos of two ladies with tiny waists. The measurements were listed on whatever cover page I originally got the links from. Of the three pics, only the second is in any way appealing, to my eye. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bernhard_Foltz/CORGRA1.JPG Mrs Edith Granger - 13" waist actress Polaire, 18" waist http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bernhard_Foltz/CORPOLA.JPG http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bernhard_Foltz/COR0001.JPG Deb Baddorf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 01:27:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA01551 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 01:27:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA14207; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:50:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA18969 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:34:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from send104.yahoomail.com (send104.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.122]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id XAA18963 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:34:45 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990121063727.2088.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Received: from [209.52.33.33] by send104.yahoomail.com; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:37:27 PST Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:37:27 -0800 (PST) From: Glenda Hohmann Subject: H-COST: renaissance study/history To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Glenda Hohmann - -Poster: "karrissa david" Hello All, My name is Karrissa David. I have been searching for this list serve for a while. I am glad I have found it. I have just started to study the history of clothing. I has intrigued me for a very long time now. I was introduced to a couple of organtizations which study rennaisance (sp?) history and fell in love. Now I am trying to get all of the information that I can. ================= Greetings Karrissa :> One place that you might want to check out is a website for a group called "The Guilded Pearl". I don't have the URL but if you type the name "Guilded Pearl" (in quotes as I have typed) into Alta Vista or Yahoo search engines, you should find it. They are a group of SCA people who enjoy and study the Italian Renaissance and may prove to be very helpful to you. Sincerely, Katrynka Chornovoloskaya (Glenda Hohmann) MoAS, Ramsgaard, An Tir (Kamloops, BC, Canada) == ***************************************** * Two things stand like stone: * * Kindness in another's trouble, * * Courage in your own. * ***************************************** _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 02:50:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA02049 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 02:50:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA20776; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 01:14:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA24268 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 00:58:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.sirius.com (mail2.sirius.com [205.134.253.132]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA24255 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 00:58:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.134.244.86] (ppp-asok02--086.sirius.net [205.134.244.86]) by mail2.sirius.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA15792 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:58:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901210758.XAA15792@mail2.sirius.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: hawaiian shirts Date: Wed, 20 Jan 99 23:57:15 -0800 x-sender: haggis@pop.sirius.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Pelikan To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Pelikan 90 bucks for a Hawaiian shirt is insane. I wear cheaper versions probably 3-4 days a week to work (one of the few benefits of working in Silicon Valley). A couple of my favorite shirts I picked up at a Longs Drugs store for about 15. However, I don't refer to mine as "Hawaiian shirts". I just call them "Uahs" (pronounced "OOH-ahs"), which is an acronym for "Ugly A** Hawaiian Shirts." The more likely the pattern is to frighten small children, the better in my book. There are some really cool ones I've seen in antique stores, though, that are beautifully constructed. Still not worth the 70+ bucks asking price. Steve Pelikan haggis@sirius.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 02:58:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA02086 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 02:58:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA21129; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 01:23:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA24674 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 01:07:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA24666 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 01:07:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-219.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.219]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id AAA23094 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 00:06:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A67113.86A67F89@pacbell.net> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 00:13:20 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Getting rid of musty smells? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, I had written: > A friend of mine uses vodka. Buy some el cheapo vodka without flavorings > or scents. (Believe it or not some vodkas have them.) Dilute it in half > or one fourth with water in a spray bottle. Lightly mist the fabric until > it is damp and let it air dry. It's worked wonderfully. Parsla asked: > Wouldn't rubbing alcohol do the same thing, but more cheaply? Yes, but then you will have fabric that reeks of rubbing alcohol. I don't want to smell like a hospital room. Besides, I don't have a problem with leftovers. I can make schnapps out of the rest. ;-) Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 03:00:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA02104 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 03:00:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA21203; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 01:24:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA24737 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 01:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA24732 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 01:08:59 -0700 (MST) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 3CMIa15302 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 03:08:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <477719be.36a6e076@aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 03:08:22 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: hawaiian shirts Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 190 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 1/21/99 1:59:13 AM Central Standard Time, haggis@sirius.com writes: << "Hawaiian shirts" >> This reminds me of when I was in 8th grade. Even though I was already sewing at home I took sewing in school. You, know easy A and all plus being something I liked. One of the things I made was a nice pull over shirt but out of a nice Hawaiian print. It was just lovely. Never seen anything like it since. Found another I liked a few years later, a nice purple background with orange flowers and tan leaves. I used the neatest orange buttons. I just loved it, made it into a one piece shorts jumper. I live in the Midwest where this type of prints aren't readily available. Does anyone know of a mail order source for Hawaiian print material? Kelly Albrecht m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 07:10:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA09097 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 07:10:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA03826; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 05:34:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA04315 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 05:18:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from scorpion.netspace.net.au (scorpion.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.106]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA04306 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 05:18:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by scorpion.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id XAA25927 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:19:03 +1100 (EST) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t1-121.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.250.121]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id XAA06691 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:19:18 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199901211219.XAA06691@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Can velveteen be washed? Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:22:41 +1100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" Yes it can, you can do it in a machine on very gentle cycle but by hand in a trough is the better option. To recover the pile, iron it as you would velevet. -C. > Before I make plans for this fabric, I want to > know if (and how) it can be washed. It is > definitely cotton, but I wondered if washing > would affect the pile. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 07:57:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA09336 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 07:57:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA05973; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 06:22:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA06656 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 06:05:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA06651 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 06:05:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from andrea (209-122-254-164.s164.tnt1.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.254.164]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA08325 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:05:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001401be4558$305a1080$a4fe7ad1@andrea.gideon> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: undergarments Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:07:46 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" >I beleive that if the bra had been made differently that the stress thing >wouldn't have been a problem. >I have heard of bras that had an elastic (braided i think) in place of the >underwire but I can't find any in the stores. Does anyone know where to find >some like that? Try Platex "Body Language". It is a new line designed for larger sizes and every one that I own has NO underwire and is very supportive and comfy. They are availible at most department stores. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 08:06:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA09388 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:06:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA06895; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 06:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA07252 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 06:14:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from dagger.nd.edu (dagger.nd.edu [129.74.250.101]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA07242 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 06:14:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from [129.74.104.123] (costume.washington.nd.edu [129.74.104.123]) by dagger.nd.edu (8.8.8/SMS 2.0.4-beta-2) with ESMTP id IAA26204 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:14:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:14:43 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jane Paunicka Subject: H-COST: rullion Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jane Paunicka Could someone please tell me what a rullion is? Thanks Jane K. Paunicka Costume Shop Supervisor 114 Washington Hall Department of Communication and Theatre University of Notre Dame Notre Dame, IN 46556 (219)631-0633 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 08:48:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA09583 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:48:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA10500; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 07:12:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA10091 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 06:55:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA10086 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 06:55:48 -0700 (MST) From: EofAshley@aol.com Received: from EofAshley@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id XXAMa04795 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:54:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <247e81bf.36a731a9@aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:54:49 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: H-COST: Sources for 16th c. make-up info Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: EofAshley@aol.com There is a good Compleat Anachronist, written by Micaela Burnham, about period cosmetics, available through the SCA office. Karla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 10:46:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10214 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:46:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA24341; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA25166 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:54:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA25132; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:54:50 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:54:50 -0700 (MST) From: Elizabeth Lear Message-Id: <199901211554.IAA25132@indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: OT/Yiddish Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Lear As the subject line notes, this is an off-topic discussion for this mailing list. If you would like to continue it, please do so in private mail. Thanks. ...eliz, list admin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 11:16:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA10366 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:16:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA28556; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:41:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA00387 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:24:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA00356 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:24:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) id <01J6T4PG4FOG002T6W@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 16:25:25 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) with ESMTP id <01J6T4OR823G003S9M@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 16:23:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.43); Thu, 21 Jan 1999 16:21:05 +0000 (GMT0BST) Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.43); Thu, 21 Jan 1999 16:21:02 +0000 (GMT0BST) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 16:20:59 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: H-COST: Can velveteen be washed? In-reply-to: <199901210809.BAA24754@indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <41C01D42ACB@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Teddy > >Before I make plans for this fabric, I want to > >know if (and how) it can be washed. It is > >definitely cotton, but I wondered if washing > >would affect the pile. > > > >Can I just chuck this in the washing machine? > > Wash cold, dry cool/delicate/whatever is appropriate for your dryer. > Wash before cutting anything out, since it may shrink. And after > it's made up, keep washing and drying cool. I've had great success machine washing cotton velvet on all temperatures up to and including the boil setting (especially when dying it). It comes out looking like a crumpled rag, but the creases mostly drop right out when it's hung to dry adn any that don't can be steamed out by hanging it in the bathroom while you shower... Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 11:53:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA10543 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:53:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA02771; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:11:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA06328 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:54:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from m16.boston.juno.com (m16.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.192]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA06289 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:54:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m16.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DZHJVN5H; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:53:02 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #69 Message-ID: <19990121.083734.4791.3.cley@juno.com> References: <199901210028.AAA228274@out2.ibm.net> <36A67772.A2D5FC90@serv.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-6,8-46 From: cynthia j ley Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:53:02 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: cynthia j ley What sort of eraser would you use for fabric? A regular one (a la Pink Pearl) or an art eraser? Does it matter? Arlys On Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:40:18 -0800 Merouda the True writes: > >-Poster: Merouda the True > >> Yep - on the non-piled side. Would pencil even show on the pile? > >Probably depends on the pencil # and how hard you tried. Come to >think of it, >it would probably futz up the pile considerably. > >> >velveteen, I would try erasing it. Yes, that's right, try an >eraser. >> Prognosis - success! The fuzzies don't come out. While it doesn't >get all >> of the pencil off, it's certainly a lot better! Thanks muchly! > >Fantastic!!! > >> Most of the thing will be lined - it's just that the way the >turnbacks >> worked out on the sleeves precludes lining. . I've really got >to >> learn to think things through more before I start them... :} > >Gosh, I wouldn't know anything about that kind of dilemma. Moi? >*innocent look* *G* > >Cynthia > >-- >Merouda the True of Beaumaris >Barony of Madrone >Kingdom of An Tir > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 12:13:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10661 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:13:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA06690; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:37:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA11151 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:20:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA11134 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:20:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p13.directcon.net [206.170.184.62]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA22779 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:15:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:15:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901211715.JAA22779@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Can velveteen be washed? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >I've had great success machine washing cotton velvet on all >temperatures up to and including the boil setting (especially when >dying it). It comes out looking like a crumpled rag, but the creases >mostly drop right out when it's hung to dry adn any that don't can be >steamed out by hanging it in the bathroom while you shower... I've had even better sucess with machine drying it. It fluffs the pile up nicely. And since cotton velveteen shrinks like a !@$, I usually prewash and dry it on the hottest possible settings, to shrink it as much as possible. Teddy, do you actually have a washing machine that BOILS the fabric? tell me more! Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 12:45:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10833 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:44:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA11052; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:08:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA18738 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:52:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA18723 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:52:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA04430 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:51:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A7695D.58865075@serv.net> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:52:29 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Can velveteen be washed? References: <199901210423.VAA06108@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > My mother-in-law has given me a large piece > of cotton velveteen that she decided she > didn't want. > > Before I make plans for this fabric, I want to > know if (and how) it can be washed. I throw mine in on hot and dry regular the first time just to shrink it. Then I wash and dry just like my regular laundry. However, I try not to dirty it so that I don't have to this too often. If I take the velveteen out of the dryer right away, I don't have to iron it at all. And frankly, I don't like the hand of velveteen until it's been washed. It feels much nicer afterwards. And I make sure the edges are finished on any garment. Remember though that it fades just like other fabrics over time. So, wash as little as possible. Cynthia -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 12:52:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10889 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:52:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA12487; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:17:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA20823 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:00:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA20747 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust151.tnt30.sfo3.da.uu.net [208.255.83.151]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28013 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:00:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A76BB2.95ACD7C2@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:02:26 -0800 From: Christina Conklin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: textile and costume museums Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christina Conklin vidumavi@swipnet.se wrote: (Relatively so anyway, I didn't found it when I was looking for something from them during the discussion we had sometime ago about museums to visit for their textiles.) Can this thread on museums start again?? I'm new to the list and would love to know peoples' thoughts on this. My #1 is the Victoria and Albert in London and #2 is the Costume Museum in Bath, England. The Textile Museum in DC is my American mecca, but I also understand the following have good costume collections: The Valentine Museum, Richmond, VA Cincinnati Art Museum Museum of Fine Arts, Houston McCord Museum, Montreal Cleveland's Chisholm Halle Wing LA County Museum Philadelphia Museum of Art NC Museum of History Also saw some fabulous ehtnic costumes at the National Museum of Lithuania in Vilnius, and can't wait to someday go to the Calico Museum of Textiles in Ahmedabad, India. Incidentally, the most fabulous textiles I think I've ever seen were recently on display in the British Museum -- spectacular Mughal sashes and shawls repoduced by a great worshop in Dehli. (I like to travel, if y'all couldn't tell!) Christy Conklin PS Thanks to everyone who sent me suggestions on ethnic costume reference books. Much appreciated! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 13:08:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA11018 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:08:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA14658; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:33:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA24550 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:16:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA24543 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:16:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04608 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:16:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A76F1C.C4928DEF@serv.net> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:17:01 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #69 References: <199901210028.AAA228274@out2.ibm.net> <36A67772.A2D5FC90@serv.net> <19990121.083734.4791.3.cley@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > What sort of eraser would you use for fabric? A regular one (a la Pink > Pearl) or an art eraser? Does it matter? I don't know that the brand matters, just the condition of the eraser. Erasers get hard over time. Make sure it's clean and *SOFT*. Don't just scrub away, but start lightly. I shouldn't take much. Merouda -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 14:01:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA11321 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:01:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA20962; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA03874 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:09:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA03867 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:09:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [209.48.224.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA10093 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:09:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:07:34 -0500 (EST) From: Mara Riley To: Costume List Subject: H-COST: Shinrone Gown Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mara Riley I just got a note from Kass McGann stating that the Reconstructing History page on the Shinrone Gown has been updated. I gave it a quick glance and she seems to have done a very good job: http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/fenians/Shinrone/Shinrone.htm Mara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 14:15:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA11458 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:15:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA23692; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:40:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA06796 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:23:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (root@jefferson.patriot.net [206.151.9.249]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA06779 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:23:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.151.9.13] (th-0-4.patriot.net [206.151.9.13]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA01794 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:18:36 -0500 Message-Id: <199901211918.OAA01794@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: textile and costume museums Date: Thu, 21 Jan 99 14:22:41 -0500 x-sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christina Conklin wrote, >...The Textile Museum in DC is my American mecca, but I also understand >the following have good costume collections: Though the Textile Museum is nice, it does not have many costume pieces compared to other textiles. Other places in Washington DC - The National Museum of American History, Smithsonian Institution, and the Daughters of the American Revolution Museum. Both have costume collections, but not much on display at any one time. The Smithsonian does have the First Ladies exhibit, and costumes are used in other exhibits most of the time. I hear that the DAR museum will soon have a case dedicated to costume, so there will be something up even when they do not have an exhibit. Christina did not mention the Costume Institute, in the Meropolitan Museum of Art, New York! They have one of the largest collections in America, and almost always have a fairly large exhibit. >Also saw some fabulous ehtnic costumes at the National Museum of >Lithuania in Vilnius, There is also a Lithuanian museum in Chicago. They do have some costumes, though probably not nearly to the extent of Vilnius! For fans of Eastern Europe, the Delaware Historic Society (Wilmington, DE) has an exhibit called "The Other Side of the Empire", featuring ethnic costumes. I believe this exhibit has been extended to coincide with the Nicholas & Alexandra exhibit, which closes February 14. -Carol Kocian _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 15:11:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA11855 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:11:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA01891; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:36:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA17002 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:19:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA16990 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:19:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.8 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:19:11 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap (E-mail)" To: Subject: H-COST: Washing Cotton Velveteen Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:13:02 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be457b$e68c4940$271fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap (E-mail)" I would wash it in cool water to keep it from bleeding (only necessary if it's a rich color), then in a hot dryer to shrink it. Do it twice, as it will shrink again the second time. The fluffing in the dryer is the best way to restore the nap. Then cut it out and sew, taking care to protect the edges from raveling. Cotton velveteen is quite durable, and I wouldn't hesitate to treat it without fuss. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 17:49:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA12717 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 17:49:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA22106; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 16:13:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA16892 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:56:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA16876 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:56:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-61-254.s254.tnt1.rcm.erols.com [207.172.61.254]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA09355 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 17:56:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004f01be4591$4df61560$fe3daccf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: textile and costume museums Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 17:56:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" Several universities have good collections, many are used for educational purposes. Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 21:34:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA14074 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:34:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA14652; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 19:42:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA16607 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 19:24:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA16585 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 19:24:48 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 9OIJa04317 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:20:00 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <39740575.36a7e050@aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:20:00 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: textile and costume museums Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Christina, In addition to the 8 museums you mentioned, there were 4 other fine collections featured in the 1998 costume calendar -- the ones you missed were Colonial Williamsburg Foundation, Museum of Fine Arts San Francisco, Kent State University Museum, and the National Museum of American History. There are hundreds of fine museums and private collections in the United States with rotating costume exhibitions and/or symposia and study tours that highlight their objects of dress and appearance. Many have web sites and general information on their collections. We know most of these collections through membership in Costume Society of America (www.costumesocietyamerica.com), American Association of Museums (www.aam.org), or American Association of State and Local History (www.aaslh.org). Great connections. Sally Queen Costume Calendar Series www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 21:35:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA14089 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:35:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA13681; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 19:30:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA15290 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 19:12:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA15042 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 19:10:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from netwizards.net (IDENT:root@Megan.NetWizards.Net [208.136.106.5] (may be forged)) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA29473 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:09:14 -0800 Received: from slave (BayArea56k543.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.143]) by netwizards.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA30490 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:09:06 -0800 Message-ID: <36A7DCB6.2586@netwiz.net> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:04:38 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Russian Costume/Fort Ross References: <000501be44a3$4b864000$1014ffd0@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi Hope H. Dunlap wrote: > > -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > There is a big website for Fort Ross, the Russian-American > sea otter fur trade fort, half-way between San Francisco and > Oregon border, at this URL: > http://www.mcn.org/ed/ross/gv.htm > This is great, Hope! I just forwarded it to my boss. Will undoubtedly earn brownie points! Susan -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 22:05:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14285 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:05:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA19129; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:30:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA22407 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:13:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from send101.yahoomail.com (send101.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.87]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id UAA22392 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:13:10 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990122031156.29596.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Received: from [209.52.33.23] by send101.yahoomail.com; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 19:11:56 PST Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 19:11:56 -0800 (PST) From: Glenda Hohmann Subject: Re: H-COST: removing pencil from velveteen To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Glenda Hohmann And I'll add my voice to this, too. Even if you are competing, I would say, why bother. Yes, I know that you will know that it is there. Personally, I used to feel the same way (don't you just *hate* being compulsive about silly things like this ). Even medievally, would they not have marked patterns onto their fabric for embroidery or embelishment? And they definitely would have not had all the wonderful things that we do today like dissolving stabilizers and vanishing/wash out pens, would they? I know that would be what I would be thinking if I were judging something in a contest, and I know that they make allowances for silly little things like sewing machines, polyester thread and blended/modern fabrics as substitutions. Doing it entirely as it would have been done medievally doesn't necessarily make one person's entry any better than someone who has used modern equipment to make theirs. In fact, someone who recreates something medieval but *only* recreates what they have documented, is less likely to win than someone who not only recreates something medieval but adds to it to make it their own. Understand? Just the opinion of this mistress of Arts and Sciences for the small Shire of Ramsgaard, An Tir. and in regards to this: . I've really got to learn to think things through more before I start them... :} Thanks again for the help! Hilary/Joane> The next time, why don't you consider using a removable stabilizer like tear away or Sulky Solvy (washes out) to draw your pattern on and then you will be able to remove it when you are done :> Katrynka Chornovoloskaya (mka Glenda Hohmann) (Kamloops, BC, Canada) ======================== - -Poster: Merouda the True I second Kayta's questions. Even if you are competing, the marks will never show even if you don't line the garment. I say, don't worry about it. :) Cynthia > Why bother removing the pencil marks? Are you going to compete with this > piece? Won't you lining cover the marks? > == ***************************************** * Two things stand like stone: * * Kindness in another's trouble, * * Courage in your own. * ***************************************** _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 22:06:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14292 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:06:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA19373; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:32:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA22593 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:15:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from echo.flash.net (echo.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA22587 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:15:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p73.amax17.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.68.73]) by echo.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA11919 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 19:54:46 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36A7DA10.35F4EF63@flash.net> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 19:53:22 -0600 From: Kim Graham X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: cartridge pleats References: <001601be425f$39f2eaa0$6a41cfcf@gia-g> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kim Graham Gia Gavino-Gattshall wrote: > -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" > > Hi! > > No, the only thing I machine stitched on was the twill tape along the top > edge of the skirt I cartridge pleated. I really was trying to do the thing > 'by hand', so that's the only concession I made, for speed. > > I 'inherited' some white 2" wide twill tape which I machine long stitched > on, folded the skirt top edge along the 'seam line' (about 5/8 ") and hand > stitched the cartridge pleating stitches, using double strand of thread > (quilters), beeswaxed for strength, making sure I had nice tails for pulling > to make the pleats. I've used a pleater tape found in the drapery department of the fabric store for a REALLY quick way to do cartridge pleats. It's about 1" wide, with 2 cords running lengthwise along the outer edges. I just sewed it along the waist of the skirt, yanked up the cords and tah-dah! Almost instant cartridge pleats. You can take out the tape after you secure the pleats onto the waist band, if you want. I didn't on the first skirt I made using this (ahem)"technique", and fortunately the thread I used exactly matched the skirt material. So far, it's held up quite well. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 22:31:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14426 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:31:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA23502; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:57:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA25290 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:40:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA25273 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:39:58 -0700 (MST) From: EofAshley@aol.com Received: from EofAshley@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 4INRa18628 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:33:44 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <253327f4.36a7f198@aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:33:44 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: cartridge pleats Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: EofAshley@aol.com Have you tried the nylon pleater tape? This creates lovely curves to the cartridge pleats. Karla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 22:34:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14439 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:34:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA24174; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:00:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA25618 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:43:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA25609 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:43:07 -0700 (MST) From: EofAshley@aol.com Received: from EofAshley@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id GVFa003211 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:32:14 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:32:14 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: cartridge pleats Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: EofAshley@aol.com Have you tried the nylon pleater tape? This creates lovely curves to the cartridge pleats. Karla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 22:45:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14515 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:45:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA25645; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:11:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA26811 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:54:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA26805 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:54:07 -0700 (MST) From: Schiap1@aol.com Received: from Schiap1@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LOOBa03210 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:53:15 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <4b5f1b4d.36a7f62b@aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:53:15 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: 16th Century Makeup Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Schiap1@aol.com There is a very good book called "The Elizabethan Woman" by Milton Carrol (if I recall the author's name correctly). It was published in the 40s or 50s and is long out of print. It gives great detail about the Elizabethan woman's makeup and dress, as well as other social aspects. I have it somewhere with my books, but I just tried to find it and it's mixed in with a ton of books. I'll try to look for it this weekend and see if I can get some info for you. Hope this helps. Lyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 21 23:01:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA14597 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:01:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA27251; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:25:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA29096 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:08:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA29075 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:08:09 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id MPPIa05506 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:56:40 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:56:40 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Sources for 16th c. make-up info Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I believe Richard Corson has done a book on make-up, which I seem to recall as pretty good, but I can't remember the title of the book. Does anyone out there know the title? Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 00:09:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA15672 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:09:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA15423; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:35:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA07588 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from falcon.canfield.com (root@falcon.canfield.com [206.191.139.20]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA07582 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:17:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from Leslie (u6-31.wa.net [206.191.135.95]) by falcon.canfield.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA09082 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:19:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199901220519.VAA09082@falcon.canfield.com> X-Sender: leslieh@mail.canfield.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:16:14 -0800 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Leslie Helms Subject: H-COST: Re: Shinrone gown In-Reply-To: <199901220212.TAA15300@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Leslie Helms Wow! What a great analysis. A few points still don't make sense, but I think they would to someone who was building a reconstruction. I'm so glad I didn't yet hack into the wool that's eventually supposed to be an Irish dress. The changes in interpretation of this garment are a great example of how even photos can't be trusted, much less portraiture. (If it doesn't look like it would have worked, and your mockup doesn't work, there's probably something important that you don't know yet!) Thanks, Mara. Leslie If anyone missed the first note, the address for the updated Shinrone info is http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/fenians/Shinrone/Shinrone.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 00:40:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA15855 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:40:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA25035; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:06:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA10635 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:48:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (root@jefferson.patriot.net [206.151.9.249]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA10630 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:48:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.151.9.19] (th-0-10.patriot.net [206.151.9.19]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA03132 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:44:03 -0500 Message-Id: <199901220544.AAA03132@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: H-COST: 20,000 Years of Costume Date: Fri, 22 Jan 99 00:48:09 -0500 x-sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: This is a question forwarded from a friend: I understand from a friend who works at Prentiss Hall publishers that a new edition of Boucher's 20,000 Years of Costume is out. I'm wondering if any academic (or other) reviews are available on the new edition? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 00:42:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA15865 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:42:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA25734; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:08:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA10806 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:50:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA10798 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:50:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-154.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.154]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA00559 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:50:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990122001918.00a1c690@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:19:18 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Sources for 16th c. make-up info In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >I've been looking for some good sources, preferably primary or containing >primary quotes, on 16th century cosmetics and make-up information. Does >anyone know of any good books or articles on the subject? Most of what I >know is anecdotal and comes from other people--belladonna in the eyes, >mercury water for the complexion, white lead on the face. Does anyone >know where I can find the written info? Try Sir Hugh Plat's "Delight for Ladies" I think it was actually written in 1609 but, it's close. The cool thing is, most of the receipes aren't toxic! Also I've recently heard of a book called "Nostradamus's elixers" I'm ordering it and I'll let you know when I get it. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 00:42:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA15869 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:42:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA25779; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:08:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA10828 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA10808 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:50:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-154.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.154]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA00567 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:50:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990122004659.009fd6a0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:46:59 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs In-Reply-To: <199901210153.RAA11945@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id AAA15869 Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >This is how ruffs were made in period. After all, many, if not most, ruffs >were made of lace, drawn thread cuttwork, or blackwork, none of which would >lend themselves well to a ruff cut on the circle. The common way of making >ruffs by cartridge pleating them into a neckband seems to be a modern >invention. If you look at period portraits, ruffs were gathered into one >edge of the band and the large "S" curves were formed after sewing. They >don't "unruffle" if you stitch or glue them together where the "s" curves >meet. (in period, this was sometimes done with tiny balls of sticky wax). I would be curious as to where you got this information? According to the Janet Arnold about ruffs and neckware published in Waffen und Kostümkunde (I'm sorry but I can't find the article at the moment to give you the exact title or issue number) she analyzises and includes pictures of existing ruffs. They are long strips of fabric essentially cartridge pleated onto a neck band. It is only stitched along one edge as is typical of cartridge pleating. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 00:42:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA15873 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:42:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA25783; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:08:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA10829 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:51:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA10812 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:50:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-154.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.154]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA00574 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:50:55 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990122005221.00a15aa0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:52:21 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Can velveteen be washed? In-Reply-To: <199901210423.VAA06108@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >It is definitely cotton, but I wondered if washing would affect the pile. Nope. >Can I just chuck this in the washing machine? Yup. I do it all the time. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 01:50:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA16444 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 01:50:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA01378; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:14:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA15582 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:56:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA15573 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:56:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-201.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.201]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id WAA03485 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:56:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A7B1FF.985F2A4E@pacbell.net> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:02:26 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: textile and costume museums References: <36A76BB2.95ACD7C2@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, I didn't have the time to see their clothing and textile exhibits (and YES, I'm still kicking myself about it) but the Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna has the Imperial regalia of the Holy Roman Emperors. They're incredible to look at, from what I've seen in books. They also have one of the foremost collections of medieval and renaissance paintings...and I got photos of most of them. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 02:03:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA16543 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 02:03:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA02531; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:29:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA16389 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:12:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA16352 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:12:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-201.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.201]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id XAA09252 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:11:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A7B598.D7AAA753@pacbell.net> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:17:48 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #69 References: <199901210028.AAA228274@out2.ibm.net> <36A67772.A2D5FC90@serv.net> <19990121.083734.4791.3.cley@juno.com> <36A76F1C.C4928DEF@serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, Arlys asked: > What sort of eraser would you use for fabric? A regular one (a la Pink > Pearl) or an art eraser? Does it matter? I've been a professional draftsman for fifteen years and I do calligraphy and illumination in my free time. My favorite eraser for use on pencil is 'premium white vinyl'. It's a very white, soft eraser. One brand that I know of is Staedtler/Mars. A neat trick that I've learned to prevent smudges is to clean the eraser. You can do this buy rubbing it on some sturdy fabric to remove the graphite build up. Blue jeans are handy for this, but I use the carpet in a pinch. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 02:09:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA16582 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 02:09:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA02846; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:35:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA16636 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:17:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA16630 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:17:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.183] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 103aqa-0003vv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:17:41 -0800 Message-Id: <4.0.2.19990121224052.00a59420@mail.slip.net> X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:42:00 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: H-COST: Sources for 16th c. make-up info Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon"

In a message dated 99-01-20 23:18:00 EST, you write:<< >From: aleed <aleed@dnaco.net> >I've been looking for some good sources, preferably primary or containing >primary quotes, on 16th century cosmetics and make-up information.  ...  Does anyone >know where I can find the written info?  Thanks much, Drea >>Drea,I'm what is commonly known as a "high-maintenance woman"; haven't left thehouse without makeup since age 12, except for once that I can recall, and thatwas a dire emergency...so I have a reasonable interest in period makeup, andhave done some checking myself!  :)As long as anecdotal information comes from contemporary sources (such asShakespeare, etc.), it shouldn't be discounted.  The Bard makes comments aboutmakeup and fashion now and then, though you'll have to hunt for them!  I'vealso found a number of decent references in the "Thousand and One Nights" -such as 'lengthening the eyes with kohl', decorating with henna, scentingone's clothing, etc.For a good solid late-period European source, you should search your localuniversity library for a re-print or microfiche copy of Philip Stubbes' "TheAnatomie of Abuses in England"...I'm not sure of the exact date, but it'sElizabethan.  I've e-mailed my friend Mistress Maria Theresa Ipenarrieta, whois not only a Laurel with research qualifications, but holds a Masters' inElizabethan history, with a specialty in sumptuary laws...Stubbes is one ofher favorites, so she should be able to give some more info on how to find acopy.  He rails against cosmetics, ruffs, bum rolls, and a host of other'sins'.Books such as "The Good Housewife's Jewell" (1596) and "Delights for Ladies"(1600) -- both available in reprint from Potboiler Press at Pennsic -- willgive recipes for cosmetics to cleanse and perfume the skin, but don't reallymention those to add to the skin as coloring or enhancement.  For these"paints", you'll probably have your best luck with Stubbes, and withcontemporary playwrights, novelists, moralists, etc.An easy source to come by as a 'starter' is Compleat Anachronist #53, byMistress Rosamounde of Mercia.  (Should be available through Milpitas, alsothrough Potboiler Press.)  She gives quite a bit of information, mostly fromsecondary/tertiary sources, with a few direct quotes from primary sources.Her bibliography is a great list of places to look for further information.(Frankly, I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this C.A. yet; I'd swear Iremember reading posts from a couple of her apprentices on this list!)My own interpretation of period makeup isn't too much of a stretch from mynormal routine...very pale skin (mixing talcum powder with your normal looseface powder will assist you if Mother Nature hasn't created you pasty to beginwith); a little natural-colored blush and a touch of mascara; and matte lipcolors within the realm of possibility for period pigment (terra cotta, atouch of brick red VERY well blotted and diffused, a berry color slightlydarker than normal lips, etc.).  No frosty lipstick or eyeshadow.  This lookworks reasonably well for everything from cotehardies through Italians throughElizabethans.  If I'm wearing Middle Eastern, I add some black eyeliner,gently smudged, and either real henna on hands and feet, or red-brown eyelinersealed with stage makeup sealant (so the 'henna' won't smudge or wash offwithout spirit gum remover!).  For anyone who does Middle Eastern, forgoodness sake stay away from the silly 'tribal marks' on your face, unless youuse a sealant...otherwise they smudge and look like dirt!  Blue/greeneyeshadow isn't out of the realm of possibility for Middle Eastern, but likethe tribal marks, there's as much document for not having it as for having it,and I tend not to like it.Hope this is helpful to you, and my apologies for rambling!Regards,Arianna Kateryn NunneschildLyondemere, Caid
> > In a message dated 99-01-20 23:18:00 EST, you write:> > << >From: aleed <aleed@dnaco.net>> >I've been looking for some good sources, preferably primary or containing > >primary quotes, on 16th century cosmetics and make-up information.  ...  Does anyone> >know where I can find the written info?  Thanks much, Drea >>> > Drea,> > I'm what is commonly known as a "high-maintenance woman"; haven't left the> house without makeup since age 12, except for once that I can recall, and that> was a dire emergency...so I have a reasonable interest in period makeup, and> have done some checking myself!  :)> > As long as anecdotal information comes from contemporary sources (such as> Shakespeare, etc.), it shouldn't be discounted.  The Bard makes comments about> makeup and fashion now and then, though you'll have to hunt for them!  I've> also found a number of decent references in the "Thousand and One Nights" -> such as 'lengthening the eyes with kohl', decorating with henna, scenting> one's clothing, etc.> > For a good solid late-period European source, you should search your local> university library for a re-print or microfiche copy of Philip Stubbes' "The> Anatomie of Abuses in England"...I'm not sure of the exact date, but it's> Elizabethan.  I've e-mailed my friend Mistress Maria Theresa Ipenarrieta, who> is not only a Laurel with research qualifications, but holds a Masters' in> Elizabethan history, with a specialty in sumptuary laws...Stubbes is one of> her favorites, so she should be able to give some more info on how to find a> copy.  He rails against cosmetics, ruffs, bum rolls, and a host of other> 'sins'.> > Books such as "The Good Housewife's Jewell" (1596) and "Delights for Ladies"> (1600) -- both available in reprint from Potboiler Press at Pennsic -- will> give recipes for cosmetics to cleanse and perfume the skin, but don't really> mention those to add to the skin as coloring or enhancement.  For these> "paints", you'll probably have your best luck with Stubbes, and with> contemporary playwrights, novelists, moralists, etc.> > An easy source to come by as a 'starter' is Compleat Anachronist #53, by> Mistress Rosamounde of Mercia.  (Should be available through Milpitas, also> through Potboiler Press.)  She gives quite a bit of information, mostly from> secondary/tertiary sources, with a few direct quotes from primary sources.> Her bibliography is a great list of places to look for further information.> (Frankly, I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this C.A. yet; I'd swear I> remember reading posts from a couple of her apprentices on this list!)> > My own interpretation of period makeup isn't too much of a stretch from my> normal routine...very pale skin (mixing talcum powder with your normal loose> face powder will assist you if Mother Nature hasn't created you pasty to begin> with); a little natural-colored blush and a touch of mascara; and matte lip> colors within the realm of possibility for period pigment (terra cotta, a> touch of brick red VERY well blotted and diffused, a berry color slightly> darker than normal lips, etc.).  No frosty lipstick or eyeshadow.  This look> works reasonably well for everything from cotehardies through Italians through> Elizabethans.  If I'm wearing Middle Eastern, I add some black eyeliner,> gently smudged, and either real henna on hands and feet, or red-brown eyeliner> sealed with stage makeup sealant (so the 'henna' won't smudge or wash off> without spirit gum remover!).  For anyone who does Middle Eastern, for> goodness sake stay away from the silly 'tribal marks' on your face, unless you> use a sealant...otherwise they smudge and look like dirt!  Blue/green> eyeshadow isn't out of the realm of possibility for Middle Eastern, but like> the tribal marks, there's as much document for not having it as for having it,> and I tend not to like it.> > Hope this is helpful to you, and my apologies for rambling!> > Regards,> > Arianna Kateryn Nunneschild> Lyondemere, Caid> > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 02:22:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA16649 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 02:22:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA03635; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:48:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA17496 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:31:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id AAA17490 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:31:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 27374 invoked from network); 22 Jan 1999 07:33:12 -0000 Received: from tntmodem1-62.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.133.62) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 1999 07:33:12 -0000 Message-ID: <36A84DBB.6F64@mc.net> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 02:06:51 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: period makeup References: <199901220717.AAA16655@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Is that TI you're talking about the one that came out 10 years or so again on period cosmetics? I gave a copy to a friend who was a cosmetician, and she was thrilled with it. Carol Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 04:59:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA23229 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 04:59:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA10888; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:25:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA24540 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:07:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA24534 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:07:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) id <01J6U5WCTG00003RMI@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:09:17 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) with ESMTP id <01J6U5W3GKV6003D8C@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:08:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.43); Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:06:46 +0000 (GMT0BST) Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.43); Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:06:18 +0000 (GMT0BST) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:06:17 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: H-COST: Can velveteen be washed? In-reply-to: <199901220212.TAA15300@indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <42DC47D547C@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Teddy > - -Poster: Margo Anderson > Teddy, do you actually have a washing machine that BOILS the fabric? > tell me more! Hi Margo, >From discussions about the use of machine dyes (specifically those made by *Dylon*) I've come to the conclusion that washing machines in the UK differ a bit from their US counterparts. Most of them a re front-loading and have a control for different types of wash programme (longer, shorter, delicates, woolens, with and without rinse and/or spin cycles etc) and seperate temperature controls. It can vary from machine to machine. Some have the top temp setting at 90 or 95 degrees and others (like the one I have at present) go up to 95 degrees and have one further setting on the dial labelled "MAX" When dying by machine I "set" they dye by putting in the usual detergent, the longest wash (without pre-wash) and at the 95 degree setting (if the fabric can take high temperatures). Before I use (cut out and make up) any fabric I try to "boil" (long wash at 95 or MAX) it or wash it at the highest temperature it can take. That way I can be sure it has shrunk as much as it's ever likely to. I *have* been caught out.... A few years ago, in a rush to get something basic together to wear to an event, I cut and made a simple pair of drawstring-waist britches to go with a T-tunic I already had. They are of thickish wool in what I call a "heather-purple" (far too grey a shade for my liking, but I I only had 45 minutes before I had to leave for the event and the fabric was in my stash). Anyway, they wored fine and were comfortable so they have been worn a lot over the past few years. Perfect for slipping on first thing in the morning when I'm on breaksfast shift in the castle kitchen at St. Briavels, or wearing when the fighters or "the villiage" are on an outing and scrambling around old casltes or ruins. 4 years down the line, having been through the wash numerous times, they shrank. They were slightly loose on me when made but I had gained 3 stone and they had shunk slightly in the first wash, so they weren't loose but they weren't tight either. All of a sudden, they only come up as far as my thighs and I can't get my feet through the bottom part of the leg. A friend's seven year old now had a thickly felted pair of heather-purple trousers for wearing at winter events.... Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 04:59:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA23228 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 04:59:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA10948; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:25:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA24560 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:07:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA24549 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:07:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA08703.; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:11:03 GMT Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:07:20 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5 Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:06:57 +0000 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Tin dress Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id EAA23228 Status: O -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" I don't know what a tin dress was (unless it was made of an early form of lurex?) but I can tell Hope that "Miss Marjoribanks" was published in 1866 and is set in an imaginary English small town. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 05:01:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA23254 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 05:01:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA11181; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:27:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA24659 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:10:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA24653 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:10:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) id <01J6U60JQM4G004JC4@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:11:54 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) with ESMTP id <01J6U6074WGQ002EAN@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:11:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.43); Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:09:19 +0000 (GMT0BST) Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.43); Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:09:08 +0000 (GMT0BST) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:09:05 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: H-COST: Shinrone Gown In-reply-to: <199901220212.TAA15300@indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <42DD08E2A75@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Teddy > - -Poster: Mara Riley > > I just got a note from Kass McGann stating that the Reconstructing > History page on the Shinrone Gown has been updated. I gave it a > quick glance and she seems to have done a very good job: > > http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/fenians/Shinrone/Shinrone.htm I finally got around to looking at this (having heard/read) mention of the gown numerous times. Can anyone explain the skirt "welts" better or point me to any illos of them. I'm not sure my mental image from the description is entirely accurate. Thanks Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 05:05:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA23278 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 05:05:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA11674; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:32:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA24865 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:14:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA24859 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:14:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.128]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id CAA03080; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 02:14:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id CAA07898; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 02:14:17 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhQNAHDJ9y3c5CxPIteUWqOcQ7qGrQIUHyUVYDK6/RdtMfvmwh0blOwUFn8= From: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:14:17 -0700 (MST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs Message-ID: <2327-36A84F79-617@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: Danielle Nunn 's message of Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:46:59 -0500 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) My understanding of ruffs, in part from looking at portraits, is they developed from gathered in the collar to separate and enormous separate pieces of clothing. Early/middle Tudor shows modest gathered ruffs as part of the neck of the shirt/shift. These started to grow and by the time of Elizabeth were inches wide attached to a tie-on band. They continued to grow for awhile due to the use of starch, which permitted their size to grow and still retain their shape. Many of the Dutch painters showed the cartwheel ruff well in to the 1600's. Anyone care to add to this? I've never made one, but they look easy enough, just a lot of hand work in pleating into the band. Starsinger _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 05:51:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA23492 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 05:51:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA13417; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 04:17:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA08679 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:59:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from dub-img-12.compuserve.com (dub-img-12.compuserve.com [149.174.206.142]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA08443 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:59:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-12.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id FAA06604 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 05:58:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 05:57:58 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Clogs in England & History To: LIST historic costume Message-ID: <199901220558_MC2-6791-2442@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id FAA23492 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson I have just read Clogs or Wooden Soled Shoes by Evelyn Vigeon Most is of a much later period than I am involved with but here are the bits which had some relevance to me It is often said that clogs (as know in England) were introduced by Flemish weavers in the 14th C, the article thinks not as the sabot all wooden clog and wooden sole clog as in England , are made using different tools and a differnt craft. Romans wore wooden soled footwear in England. Also in the tomb of Bernard King of Italy Buried 904 AD , his footwear wear read leather uppers on a wooden sole. In the later medieval period we see pattens. There appears to be a Nottingham alabaster of St Giles shoeing a horse where he appears to be wearing a clog. The author suggests their use can perhaps be inferred from ' His luddokkys thai lowke walk-mylne cloggs' in the Wakefielf Mystery plays of the same century. An early ref to wooden soled shoe in Lancaster is Jan 1660 ' a pre of cloggs for the cow boy vjd' 1602 ref 'clogging the boy Watmough a pr of showes iijp' The article notes that pattens are difficult to walk in for any period of time, and it is possible that agricultural workers began to have wooden soles fixed to the sole of their shoe, rather than wear an over shoe. Finally the article sayes that because the word 'clog' can mean just a piece of wood, it can confuse the issue as exactly what is meant at any given time and place is not always clear. For instance what type of clog did the members of the Clog & Pattenmakers Company make in medieval times. Hope somebody finds a use for that info :) Oh yes if anyone want the name of a Clog making company in the UK , I have one somewhere ! They will also supply just the soles if you want to make more period style clogs. Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 08:36:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA24332 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:36:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA19890; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:03:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA02651 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 06:45:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA02639 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 06:45:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.160] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 103gte-0006EI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 05:45:15 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990122035853.00c1f150@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 05:18:07 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs In-Reply-To: <2327-36A84F79-617@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id IAA24332 Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows (My comments follow at the bottom.) I need to make a neck ruff, not a huge Elizabethan one, but a smallish Cavalier or Rembrandt-like one. What is the geometry of this? I realized that if I took a long rectangle of fabric, gathered it along the long edge, and then put it around my neck, that the ruffles would unruffle at the outer circumference -- not the right effect. Should I be cutting a doughtnut-shaped piece of fabric, the inner hole rather larger than my neck measurement, and then gathering around the inner hole so it fits my neck? I feel sure this is an easy problem in topology, that others before me have solved. and >This is how ruffs were made in period. After all, many, if not most, ruffs >were made of lace, drawn thread cuttwork, or blackwork, none of which would >lend themselves well to a ruff cut on the circle. The common way of making >ruffs by cartridge pleating them into a neckband seems to be a modern >invention. If you look at period portraits, ruffs were gathered into one >edge of the band and the large "S" curves were formed after sewing. They >don't "unruffle" if you stitch or glue them together where the "s" curves >meet. (in period, this was sometimes done with tiny balls of sticky wax). and I would be curious as to where you got this information? According to the Janet Arnold about ruffs and neckware published in Waffen und Kostümkunde (I'm sorry but I can't find the article at the moment to give you the exact title or issue number) she analyzises and includes pictures of existing ruffs. They are long strips of fabric essentially cartridge pleated onto a neck band. It is only stitched along one edge as is typical of cartridge pleating. and >My understanding of ruffs, in part from looking at portraits, is they >developed from gathered in the collar to separate and enormous separate >pieces of clothing. > >Early/middle Tudor shows modest gathered ruffs as part of the neck of >the shirt/shift. These started to grow and by the time of Elizabeth >were inches wide attached to a tie-on band. They continued to grow for >awhile due to the use of starch, which permitted their size to grow and >still retain their shape. Many of the Dutch painters showed the >cartwheel ruff well in to the 1600's. > >Anyone care to add to this? I've never made one, but they look easy >enough, just a lot of hand work in pleating into the band. (My comments:) Janet Arnold notwithstanding, period pictures of the 'mill wheel' ruffs show much less thickness at the neck edge than at the outer edge. Cartridge pleating deep enough to produce the required outer thickness would be as thick as the wearer's neck is tall and, as shown in the pictures, this isn't the case. Cartridge pleats also maintain a constant width from one end to the other. So if the inner circumference is smaller than the outer one, as on a ruff, the pleats would have to get farther apart towards the outer edge. Period ruffs don't do either of these things, so they can't have been made by cartridge pleating. If ruffs were flat pleated and the pleatings were then gathered, there would be a straight line from the neck edge to the outer edge. This is how flat pleats behave. (Make a mock-up and see.) The period pictures show a curved line here, usually one which rises up then sharply curves away from the base of the neck and flattens out towards the outer edge. This sharp curve is where the gathers release in a 'mill wheel' ruff. It's as far in as the goffering iron will reach as it induces the pleated effect we see. In some Elizabeth I portraits you can even see the bottoms of these induced pleats. This is where the material is still to tightly gathered to be pleatable by the iron. Real pleats would look like pleats there at the bottom, not like gatherings as these do. So these ruffs can't have been made by flat pleating either. The best views of ruffs are in pictures of Mary Queen of Scots. These pictures have an end-on view AND a side view of the same ruff, which is what makes them especially useful. In these it can be seen that the neck edge of the ruff is super-tightly gathered (not pleated) into a tiny band at the edge of a shirt neck, and that the outer edge is several inches wide. This tiny band shows all the bulgy thickness one would expect if all that material was gathered into it. On a separate ruff this tiny band is still there doing its job, and is visible in some portraits. (Separate ruffs were called bands, and one stored them in a bandbox.) BTW, most Cavalier "ruffs" are flat, and require no pleating of any kind. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 08:36:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA24335 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:36:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA19910; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:03:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA02663 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 06:45:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA02645 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 06:45:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.160] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 103gtg-0006EI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 05:45:17 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990122052650.00c26710@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 05:28:27 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: OT/Yiddish In-Reply-To: References: <199901210054.SAA21201@photon.soltec.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >This is untrue. High and Low are more geographical designations. Yiddish is >a form of High German. > Last I heard, "Low German" was what all social classes spoke in the "Low Countries". And you can't get much lower than Holland in terms of feet below sea level. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 09:01:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA24474 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:01:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA21763; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:28:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA04513 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:09:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA04506 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:09:41 -0700 (MST) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id RWRZa15297 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:09:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6ab766af.36a88682@aol.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:09:06 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Clogs in England & History Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com Hi there--Mel, I would be very interested in knowing the name of the UK company that makes clogs that could be used in historical re-creation. Or companies in any other place as well-- Many thanks! Albra- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 09:54:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA24758 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:54:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA26393; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:21:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA09643 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:03:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA09627 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:03:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA20519 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:06:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA06982 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:04:18 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:04:18 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Anatomie of Abuses? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed I found a copy of Philip Stubbes Anatomie of Abuses & other writings, leather-bound, for $185, which seems pretty high. Has anyone else bought this book? How much did they pay for it? Thanks, Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 11:26:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA25290 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:26:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA07862; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:51:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA24400 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:32:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA24372 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:32:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA07512 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:32:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A8A84C.BE3A3293@serv.net> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:33:16 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Shinrone Gown References: <42DD08E2A75@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > Can anyone explain the skirt "welts" better or point me to any illos > of them. I'm not sure my mental image from the description is > entirely accurate. Great question. Yes, please, a clue? I was reading through the page and was completely confused by what the writer was talking about. Cynthia -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 11:39:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA25355 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:39:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA10220; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:05:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA27384 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:47:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from m16.boston.juno.com (m16.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.192]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA27323 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:47:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m16.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DZK4WFFN; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:46:30 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #69 Message-ID: <19990122.083051.4783.0.cley@juno.com> References: <199901210028.AAA228274@out2.ibm.net> <36A7B598.D7AAA753@pacbell.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,6-14 From: cynthia j ley Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:46:30 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: cynthia j ley I have a problem and was wondering if any here might have some suggestions. I have some jeans which have a gathered waistband. They fit fine, except that I have lost some weight and need to take the waist in. There's about 5 lines of stitching running across the waistline gathers. I need to take them in about an inch. Any suggestions on how to do this? Thank you for your help! Arlys ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 11:47:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA25429 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:47:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA11804; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:14:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA00347 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:56:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA00336 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:55:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip17.an5-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.16.17]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA14762 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:55:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A8A042.C764C7CD@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:58:59 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 20,000 Years of Costume References: <199901220544.AAA03132@jefferson.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson aquazoo@patriot.net wrote: > -Poster: > > This is a question forwarded from a friend: > > I understand from a friend who works at Prentiss Hall publishers that > a new edition of Boucher's 20,000 Years of Costume is out. I'm > wondering if any academic (or other) reviews are available on the new > edition? > There was an earlier discussion of this on the list, in which I think we reached the conclusion that the 1987 edition, which is still in print, is the latest one. There was apparently a rumor that a new one was coming out, but it remains merely a rumor. I just purchased a brand-new copy of the book from Barnes and Noble on-line, and it is the 1987 edition, which contains what is described as a "new" chapter by Yvonne Deslandres. Hope this helps. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 13:25:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26020 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:25:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA27080; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:51:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA17139 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:32:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA17124 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:32:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from [194.222.199.37] (helo=montgomerie.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 103lNY-0004VV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:32:25 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:30:54 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: Clogs in England & History In-Reply-To: <199901220558_MC2-6791-2442@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jean Waddie In message <199901220558_MC2-6791-2442@compuserve.com>, Melanie Wilson writes > > >Oh yes if anyone want the name of a Clog making company in the UK , I have >one somewhere ! They will also supply just the soles if you want to make >more period style clogs. > > Yes please! Do you know if they will make to order, or are they just standard sizes? I have to wear orthotic insoles, and I have a dream of getting someone to carve me wooden soles in the same shape for clogs, so I can wear reasonably authentic footwear without aching legs. -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 13:39:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26092 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:39:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA29726; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:06:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA20640 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:47:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA20621 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:47:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08151 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:47:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36A8C7E7.D0B9712@serv.net> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:48:08 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #69 References: <199901210028.AAA228274@out2.ibm.net> <36A7B598.D7AAA753@pacbell.net> <19990122.083051.4783.0.cley@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True The only thing I can think of is to take out the stitches and the old elastic and put in a newer, shorter piece of elastic. Cynthia > I have some jeans which have a gathered waistband. They fit fine, except > that I have lost some weight and need to take the waist in. There's about > 5 lines of stitching running across the waistline gathers. I need to take > them in about an inch. Any suggestions on how to do this? -- Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 14:05:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA26289 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:05:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA03880; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:31:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA25314 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:12:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA25295 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:12:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p42.directcon.net [206.170.184.91]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA15436 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:07:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:07:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901221907.LAA15436@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id OAA26289 Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >I would be curious as to where you got this information? According to the >Janet Arnold about ruffs and neckware published in Waffen und Kostümkunde >(I'm sorry but I can't find the article at the moment to give you the exact >title or issue number) she analyzises and includes pictures of existing >ruffs. They are long strips of fabric essentially cartridge pleated onto a >neck band. It is only stitched along one edge as is typical of cartridge >pleating. Most period portraits show the gathering on theneckband edge quite clearly. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 14:16:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA26350 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:16:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA05562; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:43:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA27592 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:24:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA27572 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:24:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p42.directcon.net [206.170.184.91]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA16593 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:19:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:19:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901221919.LAA16593@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Shinrone Gown Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson > >> Can anyone explain the skirt "welts" better or point me to any illos >> of them. I'm not sure my mental image from the description is >> entirely accurate. > >Great question. Yes, please, a clue? I was reading through the page >and was completely confused by what the writer was talking about. > I think this is a simple problem of terminology. The"welts" are tucks, with the tuck on the inside of the garment. I haven't made up the entire garment, but I was intrigued enough to make a sample of the technique, and it looks as if it would work very well. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 14:37:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA26461 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:37:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA08688; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:04:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA00998 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:46:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA00986 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:46:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p42.directcon.net [206.170.184.91]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA18911 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:41:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:41:09 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901221941.LAA18911@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Shinrone Gown Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson I've just been looking over the Shinrone Gown page again, and I find myself intrigued by the unusual shape of the front opening. The way it's cut over the abdomen in that "keyhole" shape, patticularly. Once again, I surmise that this is a maternity dress. The shape seems ideal for pregnancy, as there is bust support and it leaves accomodation for a belly to grow and be proudly displayed. Does anyone who knows more than I about Irish attitudes toward pregnancy at the time think this is likely? Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 14:42:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA26488 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:42:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA09541; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:09:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA01824 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:50:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA01813 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:50:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p42.directcon.net [206.170.184.91]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA19451 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:45:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:45:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901221945.LAA19451@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Shinrone Gown, again Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson Oops, forgot to add this: The darts taken in thebodice sometime after the gown's construction may have been added to raise the skirt front after the pregnancy was over, and there was no longer a belly holding the skirt higher. Yes, I know that I tend to think everything's a maternity dress, but considering that until this century most women were pregnant or nursing for most of their adult lives, it seems like a reasonable conclusion. Of course, there's the fact that this is my current area of study, and, as they say, "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail". Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 15:36:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA26798 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:36:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA17809; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:03:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA10896 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:44:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f226.hotmail.com [207.82.251.117]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA10885 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:44:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 8830 invoked by uid 0); 22 Jan 1999 20:43:41 -0000 Message-ID: <19990122204341.8829.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 205.161.179.190 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:43:41 PST X-Originating-IP: [205.161.179.190] From: "karrissa david" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: undergarments Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:43:41 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "karrissa david" Sylvia, That is exactly what I do. In better made bras (especially for larger cups) the underwire really does not do anything. And I am a D cup. I have never had a problem. I would however suggest that you only do this to more expensive bras. I have found that the cheaper ones do not support as well after the wire is taken out. Just my 3 cents. (inflation ya know) Karrissa ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 16:52:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA27236 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:52:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA00722; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:19:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA25894 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:00:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA25719 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:59:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-154.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.154]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA00795 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:59:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990122124339.00a395f0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:43:39 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Anatomie of Abuses? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >I found a copy of Philip Stubbes Anatomie of Abuses & other writings, >leather-bound, for $185, which seems pretty high. Has anyone else bought >this book? How much did they pay for it? I have a photocopy of it but, given the fact that the facsimilie was published in 1860's (I think) I don't think it is to high. You can always try and ILL and photocopy the thing. It's hilarious to read! Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 17:02:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA27292 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:02:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA02500; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:29:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA27932 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:10:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA27923 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:10:32 -0700 (MST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ABCJa23181 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:09:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7abc2f29.36a8f70f@aol.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:09:19 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Anatomie of Abuses? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com << Philip Stubbes Anatomie of Abuses & other writings, >> Could you please tell me what this is about? Thanks. Nancy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 17:05:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA27313 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:05:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA02942; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:32:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA28413 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:13:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from x15.engin.umich.edu (root@x15.engin.umich.edu [141.212.198.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA28403 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:13:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (parsla@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by x15.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA20596 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:13:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:13:14 -0500 (EST) From: Parsla Liepa To: Costume List Subject: Re: H-COST: Shinrone Gown In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Parsla Liepa When I try this URL, I get a 404-page not found error. The only way I can see it is by snippinng backwards to reconstructinghistory.com, and navigating through the Irish section. Parsla On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Mara Riley wrote: > > -Poster: Mara Riley > > I just got a note from Kass McGann stating that the Reconstructing History > page on the Shinrone Gown has been updated. I gave it a quick glance and > she seems to have done a very good job: > > http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/fenians/Shinrone/Shinrone.htm > > Mara > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 19:04:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA27940 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:04:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA18335; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:31:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA27070 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:12:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from send105.yahoomail.com (send105.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.128]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id RAA27041 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:12:30 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990123001247.19553.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com> Received: from [207.102.34.151] by send105.yahoomail.com; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:12:47 PST Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:12:47 -0800 (PST) From: Glenda Hohmann Subject: H-COST: pencil marks To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Glenda Hohmann I copied the following (see below) from some information sent to me by a gracious lady in the Kingdom of the West. My question would be: why worry about pencil design marks on your costume/entry when in medieval Russia they used *India Ink* or *Chinese White* (types of ink) to trace their design on the garment after creating a "connect-the-dots" type pattern with *charcoal*? The design marks *still!* exist on Christian Church artifacts from Russia, therefore design marks on your entry would be perfectly period. Katrynka Katrynka Chornovoloskaya, MoAs, Ramsgaard, An Tir. (Glenda Hohmann, Kamloops, BC, Canada) ============================================================================= The following was taken from: RUSSIAN EMBROIDERY AND LACE by Yefimova (pages 11- The influence of the Middle East is evident in the needlework of the early Christian Church in Russia.... The surviving ecclesiastical vestments of this period are worked with small figures or religious scenes, comparable in style with early Russian manuscript illustrations, framed by foliage scrolls or set in geometrical or architectural compartments. These designs are worked with colored silks in a fine regular split-stitch, generally on backgrounds of couched gold thread. First, the design to be embroidered was transferred on to the material. Such designs, called cartoons, were either made by the embroiderer himself or commissioned from an artist. The outlines of the cartoon were pricked on to a sheet of paper, which was then laid on the fabric. Powdered charcoal or other such substance, called 'pounce', was rubbed over the paper, so that it passed through the pricked holes and marked the outline on the fabric. The outline design would then be traced with Chinese white or Indian ink. == ***************************************** * Two things stand like stone: * * Kindness in another's trouble, * * Courage in your own. * ***************************************** _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 20:08:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA28308 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:08:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA26509; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:36:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA06906 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:16:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.rdu.bellsouth.net (mail.rdu.bellsouth.net [205.152.32.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA06900 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:16:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from bellsouth.net (host-209-214-163-64.rdu.bellsouth.net [209.214.163.64]) by mail.rdu.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA06412 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:16:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36A92311.96C3765A@bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:17:05 -0500 From: Renata McAdams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-bls40 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: renaissance study/history References: <19990121063727.2088.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Renata McAdams Hi Glenda, I've tried find the url site for The Guilded Pearl with and without quotes. I even tried "Ask Jeeves" but, to no avail. Do you have any other suggestion? I too am very interested in the costuming of the Italian Renaissance. BTW what is the SCA? Thanks for your help, Renata McAdams renatamc@bellsouth.net Raleigh, NC Glenda Hohmann wrote: > -Poster: Glenda Hohmann > One place you might want to check out is a website for a group > called "The Guilded Pearl". I don't have the URL but if you type the > name "Guilded Pearl" (in quotes as I have typed) into Alta Vista or > Yahoo search engines, you should find it. > > They are a group of SCA people who enjoy and study the Italian > Renaissance and may prove to be very helpful to you. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 20:10:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA28326 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:10:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA26905; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:38:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA07185 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:19:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from dub-img-8.compuserve.com (dub-img-8.compuserve.com [149.174.206.138]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA07154 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:18:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-8.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id UAA13828 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:18:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:17:35 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: Re: H-COST: Clogs in England & History Cc: LIST historic costume Message-ID: <199901222017_MC2-67A6-BA2E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id UAA28326 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson Walkleys clogs (elland) Ltd tel 01422 372371 fax: 01422 378718 no email as far as I know ! Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 20:16:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA28371 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:16:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA28025; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:44:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA08094 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:25:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.rdu.bellsouth.net (mail.rdu.bellsouth.net [205.152.32.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA08074 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:25:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from bellsouth.net (host-209-214-163-64.rdu.bellsouth.net [209.214.163.64]) by mail.rdu.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA08501 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:25:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36A9250C.72241CED@bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:25:32 -0500 From: Renata McAdams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-bls40 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: textile and costume museums References: <36A76BB2.95ACD7C2@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Renata McAdams Back in 1970s when I was still living in NYC, the Metropolitan Museum of Art used to have a rotating collection of theatrical, movie and ballet costumes. I don't know if the museum still has this collection. Renata McAdams renatamc@bellsouth.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 21:14:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA28687 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 21:14:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA00241; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:22:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA13899 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:21:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA13890 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:21:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from unknown (vcn47.pm3-2.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.240.116]) by sight.vcn.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 76761F51BA; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:21:44 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990122124339.00a395f0@mail.interlog.com> References: Conversation with last message <3.0.1.32.19990122124339.00a395f0@mail.interlog.com> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Subject: Re: H-COST: Anatomie of Abuses? Date: Fri, 22 Jan 99 20:23:08 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id VAA28687 Status: O -Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" This is too weird... I was just searching the Net last night for excerpts from this book. I was particularly wanting his rant on "fancy shirts", for documentation on a current project.... Liadain ---------- > > -Poster: Danielle Nunn > > Greetings, > > >I found a copy of Philip Stubbes Anatomie of Abuses & other writings, > >leather-bound, for $185, which seems pretty high. Has anyone else bought > >this book? How much did they pay for it? > > I have a photocopy of it but, given the fact that the facsimilie was > published in 1860's (I think) I don't think it is to high. You can always > try and ILL and photocopy the thing. It's hilarious to read! > > Cheers, > Danielle > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 21:22:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA28732 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 21:22:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA01882; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:30:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA13852 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:21:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA13843 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:21:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.128]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id SAA02091; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:21:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id SAA03605; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:21:27 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhR6Cmupfj6eNc2C4zyz6QyOp6SxUwIVAIk2DkR/9XofFLl1f2p+wujQaFGL From: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:21:26 -0700 (MST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: renaissance study/history Message-ID: <5959-36A93226-1266@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: Renata McAdams 's message of Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:17:05 -0500 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) The Guilded Pearl may be reached through links in the SCA arts and sciences page or Drea's Elizabethan costume page. or http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/2344/gpearl.htm Starsinger _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 22 22:12:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA28987 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 22:12:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA07217; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:21:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA19845 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:21:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (artemis.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA19835 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:21:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc (ppp08.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.128]) by artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA08744 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 22:22:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00c501be467f$f5daca20$98a06480@dsc> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #75 Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 22:24:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >My daughter, who lives in Toronto, Ontario, Canada is to be married in >August of the year 2000 and is searching for a wedding gown or pattern >for a style similar to that seen in the film "Sense and Sensibility". I >believe it to be a style worn in the mid to late 1700's or perhaps >closer to the turn of the century. Do you know of anyone in the Toronto >area that would be able to accommodate her request or could you put us >in touch with a company that she could contact? I'm in the Toronto area, but this is not my field at all :-). What you might want to do if you can't find anyone is check out the Forever Timeless website (which I think is www.forevertimeless.com) --they've got wonderful patterns, they're Canadian, and they might be able to put you in touch with a seamstress. Susan Carroll-Clark _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 00:03:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA29596 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 00:03:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA18812; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 22:12:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA29047 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 22:12:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA29038 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 22:12:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-224.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.224]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA18388 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 00:12:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990122171727.00a43e90@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:17:27 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs In-Reply-To: <199901221907.LAA15436@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >>I would be curious as to where you got this information? >Most period portraits show the gathering on theneckband edge quite clearly. Actually, I was more interested in where you found the information on holding the "figure 8s" together with wax or stitching them. Also, for the falling bands (what more unstructured and neckware was called) I have some pictures of some surviving lace ones. They are gorgeous! They basically look like a section of donought for lack of a better description. Cheers, Danielle P.S. I wasn't meaning to make it sound like you were wrong. After all it seems that there were always more than one way to do something or more than one style at a time. We are talking about somewhat different styles I believe. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 00:06:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA30227 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 00:06:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA19061; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 22:15:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA29280 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 22:15:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id WAA29273 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 22:15:12 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 22:15:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 26479 invoked from network); 23 Jan 1999 05:10:40 -0000 Received: from 225.240.3-2.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.225) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 23 Jan 1999 05:10:40 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990122211422.33c7cc00@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 06:59 PM 01/20/1999 -0500, Brenda and Larry Clough wrote: > >-Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough > >I need to make a neck ruff, not a huge Elizabethan one, but a smallish >Cavalier or Rembrandt-like one. What is the geometry of this? I realized >that if I took a long rectangle of fabric, gathered it along the long edge, >and then put it around my neck, that the ruffles would unruffle at the outer >circumference -- not the right effect. Should I be cutting a >doughtnut-shaped piece of fabric, the inner hole rather larger than my neck >measurement, and then gathering around the inner hole so it fits my neck? I >feel sure this is an easy problem in topology, that others before me have >solved. > >Brenda One way to get the look I think you are describing is to box-pleat the lace-edged (or slightly stiffened edge) length of fine linen into a neckband. The outer edges of the box pleats will give you the Christmas-ribbon-candy edge when worn around the neck. So your idea of gathering one long edge is quite near to the mark. As long as the ruff material is somewhat stiff (compare similar weights of linen and cotton, linen is "stiffer", even without starching) and you have not ironed the pleat in, a box pleat will flare out and give the impression that it may be cartridge-pleated. I find that box-pleating using at a little over 3 times the length of the final neckband (or wristband) works quite well for small ruffs. Extremely deep wide ruffs, as shown in some of Rembrandt's portraits of a Dutch woman (e.g., No. 1617 on page 613 in Davenport's Book of Costume), look to me like they are cartridge pleated on to a neckband and then carefully starched and ironed with poking sticks; I don't expect that the pristine arrangement lasted all that long for any one wearing. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 01:10:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA30743 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 01:10:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA24518; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 23:19:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA04604 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 23:19:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA04599 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 23:19:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-62-20.s20.tnt2.rcm.erols.com [207.172.62.20]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA25914 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 01:19:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000101be4698$595a0e40$143eaccf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: "costume newsgroup" Subject: H-COST: Virtual Costume Tours Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 01:19:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" Way to cool! The Museum of Costume (Bath) now has a virtual tour of their museum online. You may check it out at http://www.museumofcostume.co.uk/tour.htm . I am considering making a webpage for The Costume Gallery's Online Library that links to museums' virtual tours. If you know of other museums that are hosting these type of tours, please send me the URLs. Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 04:43:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA04792 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 04:43:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA05696; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 02:52:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA14386 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 02:52:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA14380 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 02:52:33 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 9XTEa15290 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 04:51:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 04:51:44 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: renaissance study/history Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com If you're definition of Renaissance includes 16th century England, yuo will want to look at: http://ren.dm.net Ok ok, I have no shame. It's my site. :) MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 05:19:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA04967 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:19:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA06611; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:28:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA03455 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:27:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA03331 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:27:42 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id PUYOa04794 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:27:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <14c1fc93.36a9a3fb@aol.com> Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:27:07 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Getting rid of musty smells? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/20/99 2:30:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, dietmar@pacbell.net writes: > > > I've heard great things about the product known as 'Fabreeze'. It's > available > at the grocery store. You simply spray it on and it lifts the smells out as > it dries. I've never tried it though. > > A friend of mine uses vodka. Buy some el cheapo vodka without flavorings or > scents. (Believe it or not some vodkas have them.) Dilute it in half or > one > fourth with water in a spray bottle. Lightly mist the fabric until it is > damp > and let it air dry. It's worked wonderfully. We talked about this roughly a year ago, but it's certainly worth a re-visit since the product has now had time to be test driven, as you might say. I know a friend of mine doing costume chores for "Tamara" a few years ago in L.A. was spraying a l ight solution of alcohol in the arm pits of quick change garments that could only be laundered once a week or so, and it was very effective. Febreeze came out last year some time, and I finally did get a chance to buy and use it and yep! It works. Spray till the offending fabric is wet, then let it dry. Even the evidence of a cat expressing on a sofa cushion her dissatisfaction with the state of her kitty box has been neutrallized! It's actualy safe to invite people into my living room (opposing opinions will, I hope, email me privily!) Now of course, in a thick foam pillow, the offense may be so deep that you have to saturate it more than the cover will stand. And maybe that's a clue to remove the flashy brocade scrap you dound a way to preserve and toss the foam! But for ordinary light use, I'm convinced. Just my tuppence ha'penny (1586 values) MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 05:22:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA04988 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:22:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA07136; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:32:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA06795 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:31:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA06653 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:31:19 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id HSJDa18626 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:30:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <270b0313.36a9a4bf@aol.com> Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:30:23 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Coffee Darkening Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com I haven't checked for responses to this yet, so I may be way behind... Given that, may I ask, have you washed the garment yet, after the coffee bath? I only ask because my personal experience with tea and coffee has been that they wash right out. Not a scientific study. I've thought that maybe a vinegar bath (sort of like coloring Easter eggs) would help. But my coffee/tea dying attempts have been pretty disappointing. Perhaps I left somethingout? M.-R. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 05:37:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA05061 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:37:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA07486; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:46:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA01279 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:46:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA01204 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:46:08 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id TZMPa05340 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:45:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:45:19 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Reasonable Facsimile Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/20/99 12:01:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, keltia@serv.net writes: > A friend and I were talking and it occurred to me that I have never > seen an official definition of "reasonable facsimile". I bet that > several of us has varying versions of a similar idea. So, please, > tell us your definition. This is what we came up with. > I'd say it's in the same corner as "reasonable doubt." Good enough for jazz. maggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 05:39:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA05071 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:39:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA07582; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:49:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA06187 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:48:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA06133 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:48:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.177] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1040c7-000714-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 02:48:27 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990123001135.00c37160@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990123001135.00c37160@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 00:12:42 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #69 In-Reply-To: <19990122.083051.4783.0.cley@juno.com> References: <199901210028.AAA228274@out2.ibm.net> <36A7B598.D7AAA753@pacbell.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I have some jeans which have a gathered waistband. They fit fine, except >that I have lost some weight and need to take the waist in. There's about >5 lines of stitching running across the waistline gathers. I need to take >them in about an inch. Any suggestions on how to do this? Take them in at the sides. Do this just behind belt loops so it will show the least. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 05:40:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA05086 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:40:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA07616; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:49:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA06236 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:48:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA06174 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:48:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.177] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1040c8-000714-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 02:48:29 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990123001438.00c157a0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990123001438.00c157a0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 00:16:42 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Clogs in England & History In-Reply-To: References: <199901220558_MC2-6791-2442@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Yes please! Do you know if they will make to order, or are they just >standard sizes? I have to wear orthotic insoles, and I have a dream of >getting someone to carve me wooden soles in the same shape for clogs, so >I can wear reasonably authentic footwear without aching legs. Your legs are likely to ache anyway, because clogs have no give in the soles, those being wood. With no padding it may resemble walking on concrete. If your orthotics are padded this may help, but I don't believe it will. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 05:40:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA05094 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:40:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA07657; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:49:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA06312 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:48:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA06201 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:48:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.177] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1040cC-000714-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 02:48:32 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990123003522.00c15de0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990123003522.00c15de0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 00:41:41 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19990122211422.33c7cc00@mail2.quiknet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Joan M Jurancich writes, in a message sent 10:15 PM 1/22/99 -0700: > >-Poster: Joan M Jurancich > >At 06:59 PM 01/20/1999 -0500, Brenda and Larry Clough wrote: >> >>-Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough >> >>I need to make a neck ruff, not a huge Elizabethan one, but a smallish >>Cavalier or Rembrandt-like one. What is the geometry of this? I realized >>that if I took a long rectangle of fabric, gathered it along the long edge, >>and then put it around my neck, that the ruffles would unruffle at the outer >>circumference -- not the right effect. Should I be cutting a >>doughtnut-shaped piece of fabric, the inner hole rather larger than my neck >>measurement, and then gathering around the inner hole so it fits my neck? I >>feel sure this is an easy problem in topology, that others before me have >>solved. >> >>Brenda > >One way to get the look I think you are describing is to box-pleat the >lace-edged (or slightly stiffened edge) length of fine linen into a >neckband. The outer edges of the box pleats will give you the >Christmas-ribbon-candy edge when worn around the neck. So your idea of >gathering one long edge is quite near to the mark. IMHO, simply box pleating doesn't get the right look if the ruff is deeper than about an inch. Deeper than that and the ruff looks really skimpy. You'd need to pleat back and forth a few times on top of each other to get all the thickness you'd need at the outer edge. But I still don't think that's how they did it. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 05:44:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA05110 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:44:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA07870; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:53:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA13979 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:52:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA13898 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:52:41 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id BVQQa05501 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:51:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:51:49 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: A&E Unmentionables Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/20/99 6:31:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, lindo@Radix.Net writes: > > No, it was pretty awful... My opinion too. I can't recall right now, but several note in the naration caused my co0viewers and I to raise an eyebrow at each other. A terribly tendency to muddle eras with another, and to repeat old costume myths long disabused in THIS comnay at any rate. I taped it. I'm not worried about taping over it. Maggiros _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 07:08:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA05524 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 07:08:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA10617; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:17:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA21951 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:16:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA21946 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:16:40 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 6CIMa27784 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 07:15:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <63394e18.36a9bd68@aol.com> Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 07:15:36 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Shinrone Gown Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/22/99 11:46:29 AM Pacific Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: > > I've just been looking over the Shinrone Gown page again, and I find myself > intrigued by the unusual shape of the front opening. The way it's cut over > the abdomen in that "keyhole" shape, patticularly. Once again, I surmise > that this is a maternity dress. The shape seems ideal for pregnancy, as > there is bust support and it leaves accomodation for a belly to grow and be > proudly displayed. > Part of the trouble with the gown is that it's displayed for years over a man's mannikin. That would tend to distend it in some inappropriate form. And of course, it is too fragile to be laced up, so we can't really tell what it looked like over a female frame. Irish women, to my understanding, would not have been shy or retiring about their pregnancies. Bastardy was not the shameful business it was elsewhere in Europe, given that inheritance passed through the female line. In large chiefly households it was said that children were held in common, and that often enough, many children weren't certain of their fathers (The English found this shocking!) and didn't care. After all, men come and go, buit everyone knows who your mother is! But there are stories that a mother's sons might gather round her death bed enquiring who their fathers might be, each one hoping she would give him a good one :) It's so hard to tell for sure. Most of the sources we have are English, and we know they thought the Irish depraved--Which might explain the shocking desertion rate amongst English soldiers in service in Ireland. It was well known that Irish girls were, uhm, friendly. Possibly because there was no shame attached to an unattributed pregnancy? (Many of those men stayed and founded families.) We also are pretty sure that not every Irish woman wore that gown (which opens over the middle then closes all down the skirt!) Some reports complain that a leine and mantle might be her only garments. Again, foreign and unfriendly or 3rd hand reports, so who knows. Yes, I have sources. No, I am not going to list them just now. Still, I don't think we should ever draw a whole cultural conclusion from one gown. Mairghread-Ros FitzGarret of Desmond, O.L. (Caid.) and la di da _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 07:14:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA05558 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 07:14:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA11457; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:23:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA22175 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:22:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA22165 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 05:22:46 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id OGAIa01440 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 07:22:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <38541e98.36a9bef0@aol.com> Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 07:22:08 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Shinrone Gown Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com Oh and, lest anyone feel flames arising... I am of both English and Irish extraction, and half Flemish, just to confuse things. All of my opinions are 400 years old if they're a day. M.-R. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 11:35:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA06905 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 11:35:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA27171; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 09:42:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA07630 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 09:41:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from arl-img-3.compuserve.com (arl-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.217.133]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA07601 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 09:41:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by arl-img-3.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id LAA16232 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 11:40:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 11:40:30 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Clogs To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901231140_MC2-67B9-F048@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id LAA06905 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson >Yes please! Do you know if they will make to order, or are they just >standard sizes? I have to wear orthotic insoles, and I have a dream of >getting someone to carve me wooden soles in the same shape for clogs, so >I can wear reasonably authentic footwear without aching legs. Did you get the address ? I'm not sure on that , have you spoken to any of the shoemakers (for period stuff ?) or their is a shoemaker in Leicester that does orthotic shoes and just might do something to order, what period do you need ? > Your legs are likely to ache anyway, because clogs have no give in the soles, those being wood. Traditionally you fill them with straw, leaves, wool or Bracken to give you padding > With no padding it may resemble walking on concrete. If your orthotics are padded this may help, but I don't believe it will. Have you tried the high end walking insoles their is one very good make Mohr or something similar , I know one of the shops in Ambergate nr Windemere stock them & do mail order. Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 11:35:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA06904 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 11:35:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA27172; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 09:42:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA07632 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 09:41:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from dub-img-3.compuserve.com (dub-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.206.133]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA07605 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 09:41:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-3.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id LAA10117 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 11:40:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 11:40:32 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Clogs in England & History Cc: LIST historic costume Message-ID: <199901231140_MC2-67B9-F049@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id LAA06904 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson I'm sending some addresses of US list members for the catalogue anyone else who'd like adding, speak now or forever hold your peace ! Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 12:31:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA07193 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 12:31:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA01657; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 10:41:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA12408 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 10:40:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from names.telcom.wvu.edu (names.wvu.edu [157.182.140.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA12401 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 10:40:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from wvulib1.lib.wvu.edu ([157.182.225.205]) by names.telcom.wvu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/JLF-19981102) with SMTP id MAA15721 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 12:40:02 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990123123658.006d2bdc@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> X-Sender: khoover@wvnvm.wvnet.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 12:37:01 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: KATHY HOOVER Subject: Re: H-COST: fashion theory Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: KATHY HOOVER At 09:45 PM 1/19/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" > >>fashion theory is a great journal - only 4 times a year but always packed >>with thought-provoking research. valerie steele is the editor, > > >Where does Valerie find the time to do all that she does? She must be a >never ending source of energy. >Later...Penny >http://www.costumegallery.com Two years ago at the Costume Society Annual Symposium in Pittsburgh, I felt like I was having a "brush with greatness" when Valerie asked to sit down to have breakfast at the table with me and a few others. She had a little (very little) to eat and about FOUR cups of coffee in the span of about 15-20 minutes! Maybe that's the secret of her success! Kathy Hoover _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 15:54:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA08266 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 15:54:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA20124; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 14:05:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA29954 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 14:03:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA29945 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 14:03:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p28.directcon.net [206.170.184.77]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA27609 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 12:58:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 12:58:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901232058.MAA27609@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: Fabric help? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson Can anyone recommend a source, preferably on-line, for chiffon and matching opaque fabrics in a good range of colors? I'd prefer silk, but would settle for poly. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 16:07:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA08343 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 16:07:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA21354; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 14:17:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA00989 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 14:16:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA00983 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 14:16:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.58.129 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 09:56:29 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Clogs in England & History Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 11:31:33 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be46fa$5081ba40$813affd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199901220558_MC2-6791-2442@compuserve.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Dress in Ireland by Mairead Dunlevy shows a number of leather topped clogs, both actual and in engravings and other artwork. She calls them pattens, but they look just like a leather shoe nailed to a wooden base. In some cases the wooden base is flat, and in others, the wooden base has two or three wooden (say 2") "stilts" underneath, sometimes clad in metal, to hold the wearer up out of the muck, and the toe of the leather top is open slightly, like a woman's open-toed dressy pump of our modern day. The leather comes up very high over the vamp, with a flap reaching to the ankle, and the leather surrounds the heel completely, rising about 3-4" up the ankle to a high flat point at the back. Very Leprachaun-like! In engravings they are shown worn with bare feet, or perhaps rough hose or other leggings. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Melanie Wilson Sent: Friday, January 22, 1999 5:58 AM To: LIST historic costume Subject: H-COST: Clogs in England & History -Poster: Melanie Wilson I have just read Clogs or Wooden Soled Shoes by Evelyn Vigeon Most is of a much later period than I am involved with but here are the bits which had some relevance to me It is often said that clogs (as know in England) were introduced by Flemish weavers in the 14th C, the article thinks not as the sabot all wooden clog and wooden sole clog as in England , are made using different tools and a differnt craft. Romans wore wooden soled footwear in England. Also in the tomb of Bernard King of Italy Buried 904 AD , his footwear wear read leather uppers on a wooden sole. In the later medieval period we see pattens. There appears to be a Nottingham alabaster of St Giles shoeing a horse where he appears to be wearing a clog. The author suggests their use can perhaps be inferred from ' His luddokkys thai lowke walk-mylne cloggs' in the Wakefielf Mystery plays of the same century. An early ref to wooden soled shoe in Lancaster is Jan 1660 ' a pre of cloggs for the cow boy vjd' 1602 ref 'clogging the boy Watmough a pr of showes iijp' The article notes that pattens are difficult to walk in for any period of time, and it is possible that agricultural workers began to have wooden soles fixed to the sole of their shoe, rather than wear an over shoe. Finally the article sayes that because the word 'clog' can mean just a piece of wood, it can confuse the issue as exactly what is meant at any given time and place is not always clear. For instance what type of clog did the members of the Clog & Pattenmakers Company make in medieval times. Hope somebody finds a use for that info :) Oh yes if anyone want the name of a Clog making company in the UK , I have one somewhere ! They will also supply just the soles if you want to make more period style clogs. Mel ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 18:54:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA09249 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 18:54:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA06559; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 17:04:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA14503 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 17:02:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA14497 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 17:02:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from sue.computercrafters.com (pm3frd1-68-75.intrepid.net [206.102.68.75]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA14603 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:02:52 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990123191321.00899b40@intrepid.net> X-Sender: sshatto@intrepid.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:13:21 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sue Shatto Subject: Re: H-COST: renaissance study/history In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sue Shatto Maggi, What a beautiful and thorough web site! At 04:51 AM 1/23/99 EST, you wrote: > >-Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com > >If you're definition of Renaissance includes 16th century England, yuo will >want to look at: http://ren.dm.net > >Ok ok, I have no shame. It's my site. :) > >MaggiRos > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > Cordially, Sue Shatto Sue@VictorianMillinery.com http://www.VictorianMillinery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 19:16:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09369 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:16:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA08591; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 17:26:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA16361 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 17:25:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA16350 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 17:25:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from vaxxine.com (ppp108.analg-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.212.206]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA14846 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:25:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36AA7611.1CCEC7DE@vaxxine.com> Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:23:29 -0600 From: Sheridan Alder X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Paper costumes, or, And your friends and family think YOU'RE crazy! References: <000101be4698$595a0e40$143eaccf@s0peladn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sheridan Alder Greetings everyone: Imagine my astonishment when I opened my local paper, the St. Catharines Standard, to find a full page article on two historic costume and textiles lovers who have created 25 full size reproductions of garments from museum collections in, of all things, paper! The article included five colour photographs. Rita Brown, head of wardrobe and senior cutter for the Shaw Festival Theatre in Niagara-on-the-Lake, Ontario, Canada and Isabelle de Brochgrave, who works for a Belgian greeting card design company, have been working on this project for four years. Brown drew and outlined on tissue paper, and de Brochgrave painted to create the effect of fabric. Then Brown cut out and folded and glued the costumes together. The results, even judging from the murky newsprint colour photos, are astonishing. In one case, they used paper from the headrest of an Amtrak train for sleeve ruffles. (I can tell you, I'll be looking at the napkins from the local Tim Horton Donuts with a speculative eye!) They are currently on display at the Musee de L-Impression Sur Etoffes, Mulhouse, France. From April 26th to the End of May they will be at the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston, June to August at the Museum of the Fashion Institute of Technology in New York, then on to Los Angeles and possibly Tokyo (article doesn't say where but the Kyoto Costume Institute might be a natural venue!) I immediately dashed off to refer to my costume books - let's play "guess". One appears to be the red-and-white striped silk faille p. 55, from "Revolution in Fashion, 1715-1815", except they haven't included the "retrousee dans les poches". Yet another appears to be a Fortuny jacket and dress, but not the one from "Four Hundred Years of Fashion", but very similar. One is labelled an 1840's dress,but it reminds me very much of an 1860's dress in an older work on Canadian costume, "From Mod to Modesty" (just checked- similar fabric but bodice different - so much for being a smarty-pants!) There's a French evening dress c.1908, and a yellow floral print gown c. 1770. Anyways, perhaps an exhibit for the east-coast and L.A. members of this group to keep an eye out for. An interesting concept, exquisitely executed, but for myself, after going to all that work, I'd want to be able to WEAR it! On the other hand, it's a way to deal with the problem of finding that perfect but unobtainable fabric for my dream dresses. Sheridan Alder _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 19:32:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09445 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:32:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA10793; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 17:42:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA17394 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 17:41:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA17386 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 17:41:00 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ISBGa01428 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:40:09 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:40:09 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: renaissance study/history Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/23/99 4:03:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, Sue@VictorianMillinery.com writes: > > What a beautiful and thorough web site! > Thank you ma'am! We aim to please. MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 21:19:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA10032 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 21:19:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA21220; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:30:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA25359 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:28:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA25347 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:28:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA11576 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:19:48 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:19:46 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: historic costume list Subject: H-COST: History of menswear Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad A friend who had just seen the movie "Elizabeth" just inquired about mens clothing from the period. He wanted to know if the male species was really that colorful and I told him, yes, it wasn't until the 19th century that mens clothing became somber, much as it is today. When he asked why, I really couldnt think of an answer. It's been too long since I studied costume history and I'm sure there are a number of factors that go into the gradual changes that took place from the 1700s to the 1800s. It seemed like a good question to pose to this group. I'm sure there must be a few of you historians out there who can provide some input. Sylvia R Divinity Designs http://www.d-e-designs.com/divinity/ 515 Manhattan Drive, #203 sylvia@netherworld.com Boulder, CO 80303 USA complete catalog on website _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 21:41:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA10142 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 21:41:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA23011; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:52:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA27027 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:50:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from send1e.yahoomail.com (send1e.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.64]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id TAA27017 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:50:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990124024525.11751.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Received: from [153.36.5.26] by send1e; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 18:45:25 PST Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 18:45:25 -0800 (PST) From: "Kristen M. Sieber" Subject: H-COST: Cloth-of-gold To: Historic Costume , SCAGarb list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" It is my understanding that cloth-of-gold no longer exists, correct? If so, is there any way to "fake" it with modern materials? == Morgaine of Glastonbury MKA Kristen Morgaine Sieber lady_gawain@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 22:23:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA10405 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 22:23:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA26388; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 20:32:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA29788 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 20:30:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA29775 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 20:30:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from erols.com (207-172-121-91.s91.tnt15.brd.erols.com [207.172.121.91]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA21203; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 22:30:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36AA9426.4A45412B@erols.com> Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 22:31:51 -0500 From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Bridge Enterprizes X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com, anah@tymeportal.indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Joy Trim References: <199901161845.NAA16566@jefferson.patriot.net> <36A2B2E0.575D817D@tymeportal.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David S. Mallinak" > -Poster: Anah > > I'm trying to find this place...Help? I kno it's in deleware, yet when > I call to TRY and get a # I get "what city"? Joy Trim is in Williamington Delaware. ================================================================== David S Mallinak : The ultimate measure of a person is not ISTJ : where they stand in moments of comfort Reenactor : and convenience, but where they stand matchlck@erols.com : at time of challenge and controversy. ================================================================== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 22:52:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA10617 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 22:52:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA29451; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 21:03:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA02218 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 21:01:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f221.hotmail.com [207.82.251.112]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id VAA02210 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 21:01:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 6766 invoked by uid 0); 24 Jan 1999 04:00:54 -0000 Message-ID: <19990124040054.6765.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 205.161.179.136 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 20:00:53 PST X-Originating-IP: [205.161.179.136] From: "karrissa david" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 23:00:53 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "karrissa david" Joan Stated: >As long as the ruff material is somewhat stiff (compare similar >weights of linen and cotton, linen is "stiffer", even without >starching) and you have not ironed the pleat in, a box pleat will >flare out and give the impression that it may be >cartridge-pleated. I agree with Joan. I would add this one tip if you did not want to starch the ruff. Measure how far you want the ruff to stick out from the person's neck. Double that measurement and cut accordingly. Fold in half and make the box pleats using the salvage sides. It sticks out beautifully. In service to all the known world Karrissa Unique Creations ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 23:14:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA10741 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 23:14:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA01876; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 21:24:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA03779 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 21:23:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA03774 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 21:23:04 -0700 (MST) From: Tsrra@aol.com Received: from Tsrra@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id PRXQa27784 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 23:22:22 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 23:22:22 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Cloth-of-gold Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Tsrra@aol.com In a message dated 99-01-23 21:50:53 EST, you write: << It is my understanding that cloth-of-gold no longer exists, correct? If so, is there any way to "fake" it with modern materials? >> Incorrect, if you can afford it, it is still being made. One piece I saw recently was $1200/yd (that's right...twelve hundred). Mylar tissue with an underlining to give it body are a reasonable impersonation for those financially handicapped (of which I, of course, am one). TS Ohara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 23 23:24:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA10805 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 23:24:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA02755; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 21:35:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA04343 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 21:33:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net (raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA04336 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 21:33:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from alt1 (sdn-ar-001dcwashP262.dialsprint.net [168.191.22.24]) by raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA01759 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 20:33:21 -0800 (PST) From: "Allison Thurman" To: Subject: H-COST: menswear Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 23:35:52 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2212 (4.71.2419.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Allison Thurman" one of the main reasons menswear became so subdued in the early 19th c was the french revolution - excessive display in mens clothing (this included wigs and makeup) became associated with the hated french royalty, and a rather more somber style became popular in france and then spread to the rest of europe. this however, does not explain why womens clothing wasnt subjected to the same pressure to "tone down", or the early 1800's fad of the "incroyables" and "mervieulles"(sp?). if anyone can give a more thorough answer id love to hear it! allison _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 01:27:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA12366 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 01:27:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA13661; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 23:36:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA12286 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 23:34:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA12276 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 1999 23:34:50 -0700 (MST) From: AliaClaire@aol.com Received: from AliaClaire@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id SLUOa19764 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 01:33:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 01:33:54 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 20,000 Years of Costume Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com I've recently finished my senior thesis (high school, not college), which was a 25-page research paper on regency clothing, and I found this book to be _invaluable_. It is FULL of original sources! I found it very good with Regency and 1820-30s clothing, but by the time I got up to the American Civil War it seemed a bit less focused to me. Still, EASILY worth the money for all the original portraits. -Alison Stacy AliaClaire@aol.com Canton, Ohio _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 02:27:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA12787 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 02:27:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA17584; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 00:37:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA15668 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 00:35:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from eterna.binary.net (eterna.binary.net [12.13.120.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA15658 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 00:35:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup.binary.net (lnk1-ppp-9.binary.net [207.140.121.9]) by eterna.binary.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA09129 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 01:35:53 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990124011719.0070d280@binary.net> X-Sender: costumrs@binary.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 01:17:19 -0600 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: cloth of gold In-Reply-To: <199901240401.VAA02234@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger > >- -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" > >It is my understanding that cloth-of-gold no longer exists, correct? >If so, is there any way to "fake" it with modern materials? > >== >Morgaine of Glastonbury >MKA Kristen Morgaine Sieber >lady_gawain@yahoo.com IIRC, I was told by someone who visited the U.K. (although this was several years ago) that cloth of gold was still available either in the U.K. or possibly Germany. However, if you had to ask the price, you couldn't afford it. Can any of our European list members confirm this? Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 08:21:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA20225 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 08:20:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA01887; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 06:31:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA25783 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 06:29:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from m4.boston.juno.com (m4.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.198]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA25774 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 06:29:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alysea@juno.com) by m4.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DZQWEARR; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 08:29:02 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 08:26:06 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs Message-ID: <19990124.083050.3702.0.Alysea@juno.com> References: <19990124040054.6765.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-16 From: Karen J Farris Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Karen J Farris Organza or cotten organdy also makes a dandy ruff. Karen Farris >Joan Stated: > >>As long as the ruff material is somewhat stiff (compare similar >>weights of linen and cotton, linen is "stiffer", even without >>starching) and you have not ironed the pleat in, a box pleat will >>flare out and give the impression that it may be >>cartridge-pleated. >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 08:21:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA20226 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 08:20:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA01878; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 06:31:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA25782 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 06:29:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from m4.boston.juno.com (m4.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.198]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA25771 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 06:29:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alysea@juno.com) by m4.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DZQWEATG; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 08:29:02 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 08:28:08 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Cloth-of-gold Message-ID: <19990124.083051.3702.1.Alysea@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-17 From: Karen J Farris Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Karen J Farris Tissue lame' with appropriate underlining will also approximate cloth of gold. Karen Farris On Sat, 23 Jan 1999 23:22:22 EST Tsrra@aol.com writes: > >-Poster: Tsrra@aol.com > >In a message dated 99-01-23 21:50:53 EST, you write: > ><< It is my understanding that cloth-of-gold no longer exists, >correct? > If so, is there any way to "fake" it with modern materials? >> > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 11:20:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21151 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 11:20:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA12627; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 09:30:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA06778 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 09:29:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from x15.engin.umich.edu (root@x15.engin.umich.edu [141.212.198.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA06768 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 09:29:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (parsla@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by x15.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA17094 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 11:29:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 11:29:15 -0500 (EST) From: Parsla Liepa To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cloth-of-gold In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Parsla Liepa Oh, dear. Now you've done it. My boyfriend was reading my email over my shoulder and has decided it would be really neat to have a three-piece suit. Wham! Instant televangelist! Parsla > > << It is my understanding that cloth-of-gold no longer exists, correct? > If so, is there any way to "fake" it with modern materials? >> > > Incorrect, if you can afford it, it is still being made. One piece I saw > recently was $1200/yd (that's right...twelve hundred). Mylar tissue with an > underlining to give it body are a reasonable impersonation for those > financially handicapped (of which I, of course, am one). > > TS Ohara > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 12:01:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA21377 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:01:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA16182; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 10:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA09608 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 10:10:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA09597; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 10:10:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from [212.229.31.221] (helo=unikko.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 104T3F-0003YD-00; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 17:10:21 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 16:53:08 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" From: Paul Poynton Subject: Re: H-COST: Baa baa black sheep? In-Reply-To: <199901140242_MC2-6691-AC8@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (16) Trial Version 3.05 <95XV16Plfedk7fzg6D1HKNcaVt> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Paul Poynton In message <199901140242_MC2-6691-AC8@compuserve.com>, Melanie Wilson writes > Do pure bred Texel sheep come in any other colour than white, dark brown for instance. >-Poster: Melanie Wilson > >Yes you can get black sheep (well amost black) I have a lovely Shetland >fleece (black ) waiting to be spun, my understanding is dark brown was >overdyed to produce black quite often. > >Older breeds of sheep are often Black or brown or grey or piebald (two >colurs) I is easy , at least in the UK , to get fleeces from many different >shades of sheep ! > >Mel > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Paul Poynton _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 12:52:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA21656 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:52:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA20875; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 11:02:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA13701 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 11:00:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA13682 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 11:00:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.8 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 10:00:26 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Neck Ruffs Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:03:49 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be47c4$0e87de60$0822ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <19990124.083050.3702.0.Alysea@juno.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" No expert here, but I thought ruffs were cartridge-pleated onto a 1" wide neck band, with each pleat sewn on at top and bottom of the pleat (as opposed to a skirt, where you might just sew the top of the pleat to the bodice. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Karen J Farris Sent: Sunday, January 24, 1999 8:26 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs -Poster: Karen J Farris Organza or cotten organdy also makes a dandy ruff. Karen Farris >Joan Stated: > >>As long as the ruff material is somewhat stiff (compare similar >>weights of linen and cotton, linen is "stiffer", even without >>starching) and you have not ironed the pleat in, a box pleat will >>flare out and give the impression that it may be >>cartridge-pleated. >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ____________________________________________________________ _______ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 13:58:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA22019 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:58:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA26629; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:08:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA19346 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:06:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA19339 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:06:40 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 9HXWa19764 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:04:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:04:43 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: RE: H-COST: Neck Ruffs Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 1/24/99 2:04:21 PM, you wrote: <> This works but is not accurate. There are complete & understandable instructions for making a real ruff in Honnisette's 1st volume. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 15:46:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22692 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:46:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA09316; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:56:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA29061 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:55:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ratty.wolfe.net [204.157.98.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA29050 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:55:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from wolfenet.com (ptlnd-pm3-1-p101.wolfenet.com [207.66.168.101]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA31949 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:54:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36AB8891.40C09B56@wolfenet.com> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:54:41 -0800 From: "Erin K. Gault" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Big Powell's book sale References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Erin K. Gault" I found out today that Powell's books (the big new and used bookstore in Portland, OR) is having a 20% off sale on their new art annex books. These include costuming, sewing, knitting, etc. If anyone lives nearby you should check it out. Their fashion and costuming section seems larger since they moved into the new annex. I didn't buy anything but only because I don't have any money to spare right now. The sale goes through the end of the month and I'm not sure if the discount is available on the website. Erin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 15:52:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22722 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:52:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA10044; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:02:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA29668 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:01:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id OAA29662 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:01:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 10116 invoked from network); 24 Jan 1999 21:03:30 -0000 Received: from tntmodem1-104.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.133.104) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 1999 21:03:30 -0000 Message-ID: <36ABAEAF.402D@mc.net> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:37:19 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: M.E. waaay old thread References: <199809040018.SAA08779@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law > Once upon a time (around 9/98), asim@mindspring.com (or someone else?) wrote: > > << Within this week, I should also have my Ghawazee Cost/Yelek handout from > my Pennsic class on-line, which will talk about this in more detail... > Is that up? I admit I missed a lot of the list discussions last fall due to illness, finincial whinewhinewhine etc. But if it is, could you (re-)post the URL? Thanks, Heather _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 16:02:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22778 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 16:02:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11078; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:13:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA00659 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:11:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA00648 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:11:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from 38.29.61.122 (ip122.phoenix8.az.pub-ip.psi.net [38.29.61.122]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA02308; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:11:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36AB2A21.27E@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:11:45 +0000 From: "S.B. McDaniel" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0-C-AICK1-2 (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com CC: margo@directcon.ne Subject: H-COST: Re: Fabric Help References: <199901240401.VAA02234@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "S.B. McDaniel" Don't have an online source, but I happened to be in a local JoAnne's yesterday and found that they not only carry silk chiffon, but had it on sale! I brought some lovely sheer white stuff for veiling. (They also had gorgeous silk satins and brocades.) My friend the manager said that this line can only be found at their "designer fabrics" locations. It might be worth a call around locally. > Can anyone recommend a source, preferably on-line, for chiffon and matching > opaque fabrics in a good range of colors? I'd prefer silk, but would > settle for poly. > > Margo Anderson > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 17:01:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23082 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 17:01:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA16711; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:11:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA05330 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:10:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA05324 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:10:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p31.directcon.net [206.170.184.80]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA25010 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:05:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:05:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901242205.OAA25010@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: RE: H-COST: Neck Ruffs Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 01:03 PM 1/24/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >No expert here, but I thought ruffs were cartridge-pleated >onto a 1" wide neck band, with each pleat sewn on at top and >bottom of the pleat (as opposed to a skirt, where you might >just sew the top of the pleat to the bodice. > That's a fairly common way of making them, but, as Kayta pointed out, if you look at period portraits, they don't appear to be made that way. When I made a ruff out of very heavy stiffened lace, I sewed it to a 1" strip of organdy and gathered that edge into a neckband. then I formed the outer edge into "S" curves. Because of the stiffness of the lace, the whole strip conforms to the curves and they do, indeed, appear to be cartridge pleated, unless you look at the innermost bit. The same holds true for portraits--look right next to the neck and you can see that they are tightly gathered, not cartridge pleated. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 17:03:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23092 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 17:03:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA16887; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:13:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA05496 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:11:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA05482 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:11:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA20746 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 16:11:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from dal-tx50-27.ix.netcom.com(198.211.45.219) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma020698; Sun Jan 24 16:10:59 1999 From: fairburn@ix.netcom.com (Ann Fairburn) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Anatomie of Abuses? Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 22:02:20 GMT Message-ID: <36ac93fc.26510352@smtp.ix.netcom.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id RAA23092 Status: O -Poster: fairburn@ix.netcom.com (Ann Fairburn) I bought a copy of Philip Stubbes Anatomie of Abuses from the series The English Experience about 15 years ago. It is a facsimile version published in 1972 ISBN 90 221 0489 3. It was number 489 in a whole series of facsimiles of early printed books. It was printed by Da Capo Press which has a website at http://plenumweb.infor.com/dacapo_list.cgi?970 No mention of the series that I could find. I know that I did not spend anything near a hundred dollars. Ann _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 17:03:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23096 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 17:03:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA16913; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:13:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA05498 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:11:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA05486 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:11:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p31.directcon.net [206.170.184.80]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA25190 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:06:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:06:48 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901242206.OAA25190@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Fabric Help Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 02:11 PM 1/24/99 +0000, you wrote: > >-Poster: "S.B. McDaniel" > >Don't have an online source, but I happened to be in a local JoAnne's >yesterday and found that they not only carry silk chiffon, but had it on >sale! I'm on my way to JoAnne's.... Thanks! Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 17:24:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23196 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 17:24:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA18766; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:34:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA07275 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:33:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA07268 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:33:15 -0700 (MST) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 5MICa04317 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 17:31:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <88d5e8e7.36ab9f2e@aol.com> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 17:31:10 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Hawaiian material Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 1/21/99 1:59:13 AM Central Standard Time, haggis@sirius.com writes: << "Hawaiian shirts" >> This reminds me of when I was in 8th grade. Even though I was already sewing at home I took sewing in school. You, know easy A and all plus being something I liked. One of the things I made was a nice pull over shirt but out of a nice Hawaiian print. It was just lovely. Never seen anything like it since. Found another I liked a few years later, a nice purple background with orange flowers and tan leaves. I used the neatest orange buttons. I just loved it, made it into a one piece shorts jumper. I live in the Midwest where this type of prints aren't readily available, so which brings me to this question: Does anyone know of a mail order source for Hawaiian print material? Kelly Albrecht m311@aol.com _________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 18:19:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA23463 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 18:19:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA23935; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 16:29:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA11727 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 16:27:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from hil-img-9.compuserve.com (hil-img-9.compuserve.com [149.174.177.139]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA11715 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 16:27:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by hil-img-9.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id SAA09263 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 18:27:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 18:26:44 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Baa Baa Black Sheep To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901241827_MC2-67D6-57@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id SAA23463 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson >Do pure bred Texel sheep come in any other colour than white, dark brown for instance. Sorry not familiar with that breed , is it an American breed ? Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 18:42:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA23592 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 18:42:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA26938; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 16:52:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA13246 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 16:50:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA13241 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 16:50:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.186] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 104ZIg-0005KE-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:50:42 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:51:18 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: H-COST: [h-costume] Cosmetics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > I put this question, in which the orig. msg. mentioned belladona for the >eyes, mercury ... and white lead... to another list I frequent. Here's one >response: The only thing I have is "Delights for Ladies" by Sir Hugh Plat >which was originally printed in 1609 (only slightly late!). A facsimile was >printed of it in 1948 by Crosby Lockwood & Son Ltd. It has sections on >preserving, distillation, cooking, and beauty aids. Most of the beauty aid >stuff appears non-toxic from the *brief* review I've done of the recipes. >Looking in period books on cooking and huswifery will probably be her best >bet. -- Elspeth So, there's one suggestion--good luck! >Carol > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 19:51:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA23962 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:51:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA03891; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 18:01:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA19181 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 17:59:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA19165 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 17:59:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id LAA28120 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:29:36 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA08359; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:29:35 +1030 Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:29:34 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Sources for 16th c. make-up info In-Reply-To: <4.0.2.19990121224052.00a59420@mail.slip.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Carol J. Bell Cannon wrote: > Um...Is there a quick and easy way of translating this? > -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > >
In a message dated 99-01-20 23:18:00 EST, you > write:<< >From: aleed <aleed@dnaco.net> >I've been > looking for some good sources, preferably primary or containing > >primary quotes, on 16th century cosmetics and make-up > information.  ...  Does anyone >know where I can find the > written info?  Thanks much, Drea >>Drea,I'm what is commonly > known as a "high-maintenance woman"; haven't left thehouse > without makeup since age 12, except for once that I can recall, and thatwas > a dire emergency...so I have a reasonable interest in period makeup, > andhave done some checking myself!  :)As long as anecdotal information > comes from contemporary sources (such asShakespeare, etc.), it shouldn't be > discounted.  The Bard makes comments aboutmakeup and fashion now and > then, though you'll have to hunt for them!  I'vealso found a number of > decent references in the "Thousand and One Nights" -such as > 'lengthening the eyes with kohl', decorating with henna, scentingone's > clothing, etc.For a good solid late-period European source, you should > search your localuniversity library for a re-print or microfiche copy of > Philip Stubbes' "TheAnatomie of Abuses in England"...I'm not sure > of the exact date, but it'sElizabethan.  I've e-mailed my friend > Mistress Maria Theresa Ipenarrieta, whois not only a Laurel with research > qualifications, but holds a Masters' inElizabethan history, with a > specialty in sumptuary laws...Stubbes is one ofher favorites, so she should > be able to give some more info on how to find acopy.  He rails against > cosmetics, ruffs, bum rolls, and a host of other'sins'.Books such as > "The Good Housewife's Jewell" (1596) and "Delights for > Ladies"(1600) -- both available in reprint from Potboiler Press at > Pennsic -- willgive recipes for cosmetics to cleanse and perfume the skin, > but don't reallymention those to add to the skin as coloring or > enhancement.  For these"paints", you'll probably have your > best luck with Stubbes, and withcontemporary playwrights, novelists, > moralists, etc.An easy source to come by as a 'starter' is Compleat > Anachronist #53, byMistress Rosamounde of Mercia.  (Should be > available through Milpitas, alsothrough Potboiler Press.)  She gives > quite a bit of information, mostly fromsecondary/tertiary sources, with a > few direct quotes from primary sources.Her bibliography is a great list of > places to look for further information.(Frankly, I'm surprised no one else > has mentioned this C.A. yet; I'd swear Iremember reading posts from a > couple of her apprentices on this list!)My own interpretation of period > makeup isn't too much of a stretch from mynormal routine...very pale skin > (mixing talcum powder with your normal looseface powder will assist you if > Mother Nature hasn't created you pasty to beginwith); a little > natural-colored blush and a touch of mascara; and matte lipcolors within > the realm of possibility for period pigment (terra cotta, atouch of brick > red VERY well blotted and diffused, a berry color slightlydarker than > normal lips, etc.).  No frosty lipstick or eyeshadow.  This > lookworks reasonably well for everything from cotehardies through Italians > throughElizabethans.  If I'm wearing Middle Eastern, I add some black > eyeliner,gently smudged, and either real henna on hands and feet, or > red-brown eyelinersealed with stage makeup sealant (so the 'henna' won't > smudge or wash offwithout spirit gum remover!).  For anyone who does > Middle Eastern, forgoodness sake stay away from the silly 'tribal marks' on > your face, unless youuse a sealant...otherwise they smudge and look like > dirt!  Blue/greeneyeshadow isn't out of the realm of possibility for > Middle Eastern, but likethe tribal marks, there's as much document for not > having it as for having it,and I tend not to like it.Hope this is helpful > to you, and my apologies for rambling!Regards,Arianna Kateryn > NunneschildLyondemere, Caid
> > > > In a message dated 99-01-20 23:18:00 EST, you write:> > << > >From: aleed <aleed@dnaco.net>> >I've been looking for some > good sources, preferably primary or containing > >primary quotes, on > 16th century cosmetics and make-up information.  ...  Does > anyone> >know where I can find the written info?  Thanks much, > Drea >>> > Drea,> > I'm what is commonly known as a > "high-maintenance woman"; haven't left the> house without makeup > since age 12, except for once that I can recall, and that> was a dire > emergency...so I have a reasonable interest in period makeup, and> have > done some checking myself!  :)> > As long as anecdotal information > comes from contemporary sources (such as> Shakespeare, etc.), it shouldn't > be discounted.  The Bard makes comments about> makeup and fashion now > and then, though you'll have to hunt for them!  I've> also found a > number of decent references in the "Thousand and One Nights" -> > such as 'lengthening the eyes with kohl', decorating with henna, scenting> > one's clothing, etc.> > For a good solid late-period European source, you > should search your local> university library for a re-print or microfiche > copy of Philip Stubbes' "The> Anatomie of Abuses in > England"...I'm not sure of the exact date, but it's> > Elizabethan.  I've e-mailed my friend Mistress Maria Theresa > Ipenarrieta, who> is not only a Laurel with research qualifications, but > holds a Masters' in> Elizabethan history, with a specialty in sumptuary > laws...Stubbes is one of> her favorites, so she should be able to give some > more info on how to find a> copy.  He rails against cosmetics, ruffs, > bum rolls, and a host of other> 'sins'.> > Books such as "The Good > Housewife's Jewell" (1596) and "Delights for Ladies"> (1600) > -- both available in reprint from Potboiler Press at Pennsic -- will> give > recipes for cosmetics to cleanse and perfume the skin, but don't really> > mention those to add to the skin as coloring or enhancement.  For > these> "paints", you'll probably have your best luck with > Stubbes, and with> contemporary playwrights, novelists, moralists, etc.> > > An easy source to come by as a 'starter' is Compleat Anachronist #53, by> > Mistress Rosamounde of Mercia.  (Should be available through Milpitas, > also> through Potboiler Press.)  She gives quite a bit of information, > mostly from> secondary/tertiary sources, with a few direct quotes from > primary sources.> Her bibliography is a great list of places to look for > further information.> (Frankly, I'm surprised no one else has mentioned > this C.A. yet; I'd swear I> remember reading posts from a couple of her > apprentices on this list!)> > My own interpretation of period makeup isn't > too much of a stretch from my> normal routine...very pale skin (mixing > talcum powder with your normal loose> face powder will assist you if Mother > Nature hasn't created you pasty to begin> with); a little natural-colored > blush and a touch of mascara; and matte lip> colors within the realm of > possibility for period pigment (terra cotta, a> touch of brick red VERY > well blotted and diffused, a berry color slightly> darker than normal lips, > etc.).  No frosty lipstick or eyeshadow.  This look> works > reasonably well for everything from cotehardies through Italians through> > Elizabethans.  If I'm wearing Middle Eastern, I add some black > eyeliner,> gently smudged, and either real henna on hands and feet, or > red-brown eyeliner> sealed with stage makeup sealant (so the 'henna' won't > smudge or wash off> without spirit gum remover!).  For anyone who does > Middle Eastern, for> goodness sake stay away from the silly 'tribal marks' > on your face, unless you> use a sealant...otherwise they smudge and look > like dirt!  Blue/green> eyeshadow isn't out of the realm of > possibility for Middle Eastern, but like> the tribal marks, there's as much > document for not having it as for having it,> and I tend not to like it.> > > Hope this is helpful to you, and my apologies for rambling!> > Regards,> > > Arianna Kateryn Nunneschild> Lyondemere, Caid> > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 21:38:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA24637 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:38:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA15937; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:45:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA27595 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:44:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA27588 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:44:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [209.48.224.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA15093 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:44:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:42:32 -0500 (EST) From: Mara Riley To: historic costume list Subject: Re: H-COST: History of menswear In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mara Riley Didn't the change occur around the Regency period? Something about people dressing in less finery after the French Revolution and all that... Plus the more somber Victorian era kinda nailed that trend down. Mara On Sat, 23 Jan 1999, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > > -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > A friend who had just seen the movie "Elizabeth" just inquired about mens > clothing from the period. He wanted to know if the male species was > really that colorful and I told him, yes, it wasn't until the 19th century > that mens clothing became somber, much as it is today. When he > asked why, I really couldnt think of an answer. It's been too long since > I studied costume history and I'm sure there are a number of factors that > go into the gradual changes that took place from the 1700s to the 1800s. > It seemed like a good question to pose to this group. I'm sure there must > be a few of you historians out there who can provide some input. > Sylvia R > > Divinity Designs http://www.d-e-designs.com/divinity/ > 515 Manhattan Drive, #203 sylvia@netherworld.com > Boulder, CO 80303 USA complete catalog on website > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 22:03:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA24778 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 22:03:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA19719; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:14:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA29826 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:12:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA29821 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:12:31 -0700 (MST) From: CONNECT@aol.com Received: from CONNECT@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id PRKVa01221 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 22:09:29 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <92cf974c.36abe069@aol.com> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 22:09:29 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Cloth-of-gold Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: CONNECT@aol.com In a message dated 1/23/99 11:24:14 PM, Tsrra@aol.com writes: <> At that price, it makes $100/yd silk velvet look like a bargain basement fabric! (huge grin) Yours, Pattie Rayl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 22:09:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA24811 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 22:09:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA20445; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:20:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA00418 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:18:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA00411 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:18:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-210.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.210]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA02117 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 22:18:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990124155618.00a60c70@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:56:18 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Canadian gal looking for local help with Regency gown... In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990123002012.00c341c0@pop.slip.net> References: <36A915B1.BCE17437@rica.net> <8320d494.3692edda@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >The Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto, and the Bata shoe Museum, also in >Toronto, would be my first guesses at places to look. These museums are >very good and much closer to her than to me here in California. Unfortunately, the Royal Ontario Museum (ROM) actually displays VERY little of a *large* clothing and textile collection. About all the every display is half a dozen Victorian and Edwardian outfits. It is extremely disappointing. I'm a member and they won't listen to my desparate pleas to show us more of their collection. :( On the other hand, the Bata Shoe Museum has some Regency shoes on display. But, they are very friendly and if you make an appointment, seem to be very happy to show you the goodies in the "vault". Good luck. Cheers, Danielle (a fellow Torontonian) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 22:09:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA24815 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 22:09:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA20461; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:20:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA00431 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:18:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA00419 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:18:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-210.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.210]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA02208 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 22:18:28 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990124205856.00a61d90@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:58:56 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Cloth-of-gold In-Reply-To: <19990124024525.11751.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >It is my understanding that cloth-of-gold no longer exists, correct? >If so, is there any way to "fake" it with modern materials? The closest approximation I get is an Indain textile (approx $10 yard)- metallic shot silk organza. The warp is a coloured silk thread and the weft is a fine metal filament (for lack of a better term) over a fibre core. The fabric has a fair amount of body due to the metal but is rather hard on scissors. My only complaint is the sheerness of it. It definitely has to be lined. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 22:35:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA24995 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 22:35:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA22941; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:45:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA02348 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:44:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA02336 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:44:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.148] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 104cwU-0001iq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:44:03 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:44:31 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Sources for 16th c. make-up info In-Reply-To: References: <4.0.2.19990121224052.00a59420@mail.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 11:29 AM 1/25/99 +1030, you wrote: > >-Poster: The Purple Elephant > >On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Carol J. Bell Cannon wrote: > >> >Um...Is there a quick and easy way of translating this? > No my mailer left in the html coding. It was asked to do plain txt only...my apologies. Maybe later when I have more time. Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 23:14:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA25188 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:14:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA26816; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:24:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA05305 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:22:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA05289 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:22:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip220-36.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.36]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA20033 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:22:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990124232116.00a72330@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:21:16 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: RE: H-COST: Neck Ruffs In-Reply-To: <199901242205.OAA25010@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, > When I made a ruff out of very heavy stiffened lace, I sewed it to a 1" >strip of organdy and gathered that edge into a neckband. then I formed the >outer edge into "S" curves. Because of the stiffness of the lace, the whole >strip conforms to the curves and they do, indeed, appear to be cartridge >pleated, unless you look at the innermost bit. The same holds true for >portraits--look right next to the neck and you can see that they are tightly >gathered, not cartridge pleated. I just have to reiterate that YOU make them that way and they work for you. There are EXISTING, SURVIVING RUFFS which are essentially cartridge pleated and sewn to the neck band along the top edge. So saying your way is the only way they were done is as silly as my saying my way was the only way they were done. If you look at portraits you will also notice for just about everything there was more than one style. :) Just trying to keep this friendly, Danielle P.S. I've done it "my way" and it works too. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 23:14:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA25192 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:14:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA26858; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:24:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA05314 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:22:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA05309 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:22:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip220-36.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.36]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA20131 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:22:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990124232957.00a67440@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:29:57 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Cloth-of-gold In-Reply-To: <92cf974c.36abe069@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >At that price, it makes $100/yd silk velvet look like a bargain basement >fabric! (huge grin) Ooooo. Is that COMPLETELY (i.e. no rayon sneeking in) silk velevet? Where or where? We can only find rayon pile on a silk ground up here. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 24 23:35:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA25326 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:35:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA29757; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:45:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA07074 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:43:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA07067 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:43:54 -0700 (MST) From: CONNECT@aol.com Received: from CONNECT@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 7KCQa07017 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:43:15 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <415a1c5c.36abf663@aol.com> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:43:15 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Cloth-of-gold Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: CONNECT@aol.com In a message dated 1/24/99 11:23:53 PM, dnunn@interlog.com writes: <<>At that price, it makes $100/yd silk velvet look like a bargain basement >fabric! (huge grin) Ooooo. Is that COMPLETELY (i.e. no rayon sneeking in) silk velevet? Where or where? We can only find rayon pile on a silk ground up here. Cheers, Danielle>> Designer Fabric Outlet (also know as the Oarge Bag Store) in Toronto, Ontario has 100% silk velvet for only $120 CAN a yard. Yours, Pattie Rayl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 00:43:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA26195 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:43:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA06630; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 22:53:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA12153 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 22:51:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id WAA12139 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 22:51:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 8704 invoked from network); 25 Jan 1999 05:54:09 -0000 Received: from tntmodem1-245.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.133.245) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 1999 05:54:09 -0000 Message-ID: <36AC2B0E.1E35@mc.net> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:27:58 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com CC: f-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: CostumeCon References: <199901242212.PAA05517@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law One of the members of our costumer's Guild will not be able to attend CostumeCon. Her membership is on sale for $40 OBO. Contact Maija123@worldnet.att.net Carol Mitchell President Chicagoland Costumer's Guild _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 01:08:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA26500 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:08:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA08550; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:18:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA13622 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:16:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA13614 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:16:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip101.an7-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.18.101]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00790 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 22:16:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36ABFEF1.9E0A3164@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:19:46 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: History of menswear References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson > -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > A friend who had just seen the movie "Elizabeth" just inquired about mens > clothing from the period. He wanted to know if the male species was > really that colorful and I told him, yes, it wasn't until the 19th century > that mens clothing became somber, much as it is today. When he > asked why, I really couldnt think of an answer. One psychologist called this the "Great Masculine Renunciation," and the name seems to have stuck (J.C. Flugel, "The Psychology of Clothes," published in English in 1930, interestingly by Leonard and Virginia Woolf's Hogarth Press). It starts in the mid- to late-eighteenth century, and appears to have political associations: aristocrats = peacocks, so us 'just-plain-folks' will dress to show our plainness, simplicity, honesty, goodness, etc--at least, that's the most current theory. The style seems to have been more or less based on English country gentry clothes. Boucher wrote an early article about this, in the 1950s, but his big book doesn't really treat it as an overall phenomenon until the French Revolution. Hope this helps, Lauri > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 01:55:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA26801 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:55:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA13105; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:05:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA16683 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:03:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from echo.flash.net (echo.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA16674 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:03:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p200.amax9.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.66.200]) by echo.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA22550 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:02:57 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36AC1641.7148124@flash.net> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:59:13 -0600 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: History of menswear / Dangerous Beauty References: <36ABFEF1.9E0A3164@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Charlene Charette Laurel Wilson wrote: > > A friend who had just seen the movie "Elizabeth" just inquired about mens > > clothing from the period. He wanted to know if the male species was > > really that colorful and I told him, yes, it wasn't until the 19th century > > that mens clothing became somber, much as it is today. When he > > asked why, I really couldnt think of an answer. On a slightly related note, can someone please tell me how were the men's clothes in Dangerous Beauty. A male friend has fallen in love with a couple of the outfits and was asking me how authentic they were. Wrong gender and time period for me. --Charlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 02:00:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA26828 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 02:00:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA13759; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:11:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA16986 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:09:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA16981 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:09:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.202.191.21] (ppp-max1-21.grin.net [208.202.191.21]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA13093 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:09:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:09:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.0.2.19990121224052.00a59420@mail.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@grin.net Subject: H-COST: Sources for 16th c. make-up info-DECODED Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Here is the message "decoded" - i wanted to see what it said myself... >-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > Drea, > > I'm what is commonly known as a "high-maintenance woman"; haven't left the > house without makeup since age 12, except for once that I can recall, and >that > was a dire emergency...so I have a reasonable interest in period makeup, and > have done some checking myself! :) > > As long as anecdotal information comes from contemporary sources (such as > Shakespeare, etc.), it shouldn't be discounted. The Bard makes comments about > makeup and fashion now and then, though you'll have to hunt for them! I've > also found a number of decent references in the "Thousand and One Nights" - > such as 'lengthening the eyes with kohl', decorating with henna, scenting > one's clothing, etc. > > For a good solid late-period European source, you should search your local > university library for a re-print or microfiche copy of Philip Stubbes' "The > Anatomie of Abuses in England"...I'm not sure of the exact date, but it's > Elizabethan. I've e-mailed my friend Mistress Maria Theresa Ipenarrieta, who > is not only a Laurel with research qualifications, but holds a Masters' in > Elizabethan history, with a specialty in sumptuary laws...Stubbes is one of > her favorites, so she should be able to give some more info on how to find a > copy. He rails against cosmetics, ruffs, bum rolls, and a host of other > 'sins'. > > Books such as "The Good Housewife's Jewell" (1596) and "Delights for Ladies" > (1600) -- both available in reprint from Potboiler Press at Pennsic -- will > give recipes for cosmetics to cleanse and perfume the skin, but don't really > mention those to add to the skin as coloring or enhancement. For these > "paints", you'll probably have your best luck with Stubbes, and with > contemporary playwrights, novelists, moralists, etc. > > An easy source to come by as a 'starter' is Compleat Anachronist #53, by > Mistress Rosamounde of Mercia. (Should be available through Milpitas, also > through Potboiler Press.) She gives quite a bit of information, mostly from > secondary/tertiary sources, with a few direct quotes from primary sources. > Her bibliography is a great list of places to look for further information. > (Frankly, I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this C.A. yet; I'd swear I > remember reading posts from a couple of her apprentices on this list!) > > My own interpretation of period makeup isn't too much of a stretch from my > normal routine...very pale skin (mixing talcum powder with your normal loose > face powder will assist you if Mother Nature hasn't created you pasty to >begin > with); a little natural-colored blush and a touch of mascara; and matte lip > colors within the realm of possibility for period pigment (terra cotta, a > touch of brick red VERY well blotted and diffused, a berry color slightly > darker than normal lips, etc.). No frosty lipstick or eyeshadow. This look > works reasonably well for everything from cotehardies through Italians >through > Elizabethans. If I'm wearing Middle Eastern, I add some black eyeliner, > gently smudged, and either real henna on hands and feet, or red-brown >eyeliner > sealed with stage makeup sealant (so the 'henna' won't smudge or wash off > without spirit gum remover!). For anyone who does Middle Eastern, for > goodness sake stay away from the silly 'tribal marks' on your face, >unless you > use a sealant...otherwise they smudge and look like dirt! Blue/green > eyeshadow isn't out of the realm of possibility for Middle Eastern, but like > the tribal marks, there's as much document for not having it as for >having it, > and I tend not to like it. > > Hope this is helpful to you, and my apologies for rambling! > > Regards, > > Arianna Kateryn Nunneschild > Lyondemere, Caid _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 02:14:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA26895 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 02:14:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA14908; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:24:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA17853 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:22:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA17847 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:22:55 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 6PBEa00804 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 02:21:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6c77c6b.36ac1b96@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 02:21:58 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: History of menswear Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/24/99 10:17:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, lwilson16@earthlink.net writes: > > One psychologist called this the "Great Masculine Renunciation," and the > name > seems to have stuck (J.C. Flugel, "The Psychology of Clothes," published in > English in 1930, interestingly by Leonard and Virginia Woolf's Hogarth > Press). It starts in the mid- to late-eighteenth century, and appears to > have political associations: aristocrats = peacocks, so us > 'just-plain-folks' will dress to show our plainness, simplicity, honesty, > goodness, etc--at least, that's the most current theory. That seems to work. Also, the merchant class and craftsmen too had always been less flashy than the Nobility. As the merchant class and "business" came more to be the ruling factors in Europe, I can see that staid and sober dress coming in as well. Middle-class women, tho, given the opportunity to dress up, probably took it! Just a thought. MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 02:54:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA27136 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 02:54:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA16953; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:05:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA19788 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:03:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA19783 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:03:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-70-243.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.70.243]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id AAA10542 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:02:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36ABB624.73410C6B@pacbell.net> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:09:11 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: renaissance study/history References: <19990121063727.2088.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> <36A92311.96C3765A@bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, Renata wrote: > I've tried find the url site for The Guilded Pearl with and without > quotes. I even tried "Ask Jeeves" but, to no avail. Do you have any > other suggestion? I too am very interested in the costuming of the > Italian Renaissance. I'm afraid you got sidetracked by a spelling error. The Gilded Lily is at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/2344/gpearl.htm > BTW what is the SCA? The SCA is the Society for Creative Anachronism, an international non-profit corporation dedicated to the study and recreation of pre-1600 Western civilization. They can be reached at: http://www.sca.org Good luck, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 03:05:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA00082 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 03:05:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA17376; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:14:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA20167 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:12:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA20159 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:12:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-70-243.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.70.243]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id AAA12477 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:11:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36ABB851.90E2E9F@pacbell.net> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:18:28 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Coffee Darkening References: <270b0313.36a9a4bf@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, MaggiRos asked: > I haven't checked for responses to this yet, so I may be way behind... > Given that, may I ask, have you washed the garment yet, after the coffee > bath? Yes, I pre-washed it with Borax and 'All' detergent. > I only ask because my personal experience with tea and coffee has been > that they wash right out. Not a scientific study. I've thought that maybe > a vinegar bath (sort of like coloring Easter eggs) would help. But my > coffee/tea dying attempts have been pretty disappointing. Perhaps I left > somethingout? Well, I guess I've had better luck. ;-) I have a pair of hose that I made with poly/cotton t-shirt ribbing over four years ago and they're still not the bright yellow they started out as. I didn't bother with the vinegar, since I never got any feedback one way or the other. I just used very dark tea (or, in this case, coffee) and washed normally. Perhaps it's my bachelor's laundry skills. ;-) Regards, Dietmar P.S.: MaggiRos, I remember taking a Collegium class on men's German ren from you some six or seven years ago at PCC. "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 06:16:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA01181 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 06:16:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA26228; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:26:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA19028 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:24:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA18799 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) id <01J6YFGK7MA8005CXZ@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:25:54 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) with ESMTP id <01J6YFGJGWO8005840@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:25:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.43); Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:23:42 +0000 (GMT0BST) Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.43); Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:23:34 +0000 (GMT0BST) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:23:33 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: cloth of gold In-reply-to: <199901242212.PAA05517@indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <477149B5AC1@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Teddy > IIRC, I was told by someone who visited the U.K. (although this was > several years ago) that cloth of gold was still available either in > the U.K. or possibly Germany. However, if you had to ask the price, > you couldn't afford it. Can any of our European list members > confirm this? It depends if you want "real" gold or will make do with a gold-coloured metalic thread as a substitute....? It *is* available, but is expensive. I bought some beautiful fine "cloth of gold" pieces a few years ago as presents for my cousin (who does Eastern dance) to use as veils/scarves. They were expensive, but cheaper than usual as they were from the remnant bins. The silk was real silk, the metal was described as "metalic" They were pretty sheer, with metalic-gold threads in one direction and silk in the other (the pieces I got were in three colours. One bright red, one orange and one in a more reddish orange). In the sales after this Christmas, I found another piece in a different branch of the smae department store. This is just as fine/sheer as the others but the silk is white/off-white and my partner bought it for use as veiling on the 15th century dress he's making for a friend's wedding this summer. The bride has been worried about finding something suitable and we haven't told her about our find - she'll se it on Saturday when we visit her for a fitting.... Also, there's a string of shops (mostly seen at large stations in the city) called "Accessorize" where they sell big scarves/shawls of slightly less sheer "cloth -f gold" and "cloth of silver" fo around 35 pounds each. Beautiful but out of my price range for a shawl (I would cut them up and use them for costumes, but even then I'm not paying that much for about a yard and a half length of fairly narrow fabric!) Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 06:48:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA01333 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 06:48:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA27680; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:00:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA27467 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:57:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA27456 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:57:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) id <01J6YGNE0PCG003NEJ@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:59:35 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) with ESMTP id <01J6YGND0OFK005840@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:59:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.43); Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:57:26 +0000 (GMT0BST) Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.43); Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:57:21 +0000 (GMT0BST) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:57:18 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: H-COST: Regency events in Boston??? To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <477A4B83CCF@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Teddy Can anyone in the Boston (USA) area help? I have a friend in Boston who is busily making herself some outfits using the wonderful La Mode Bagatelle Regency patterns. The problem is, she doesn't know of any events in her area where she could wear them. It's a real shame. When I spoke to her yesterday, the silk she ordered fro the evening dress hadn't been delivered so she had started cutting out a cotton day dress for something to do in the meantime... Anyone know of any events in the area I could send her details of? Many thanks Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 07:29:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA01538 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 07:29:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA29880; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:40:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA29449 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:38:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA29444 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:38:06 -0700 (MST) From: EofAshley@aol.com Received: from EofAshley@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id GMLPa00808 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 07:37:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 07:37:27 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: H-COST: Neck Ruffs Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: EofAshley@aol.com I've discovered 4-5 cutting 12"doughnuts, sewing them into a spiral, and cartridge-pleating them into a neckband makes a great ruff with the proper silhouette. If anyone would like, I can send a jpg privately of a child with such a ruff, made of silk organdy, so you can see how this appears. I've also discovered that the feather stitch on a sewing machine, often used to mend lingerie, can be used to finish the edges of the ruff, if you run the edge directly under the foot. This ends up looking like a buttonhole stitch, and creates a great anchor ofr your stitching to the neckband. This Stitch also works great to attach the lace to the outer edge of the ruff. so that the top and bottom look the same. The fabric retains its flexibility, and yet has a nice finished edge. karla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 09:45:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA02223 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:45:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA09147; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 07:56:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA09779 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 07:54:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from centum.utulsa.edu (centum.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.199]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id HAA09768 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 07:54:11 -0700 (MST) Received: by centum.utulsa.edu for H-COSTUME@INDRA.COM; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 8:56:53 -0600 Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 8:56:53 -0600 From: "I. Marc Carlson" To: H-COSTUME@indra.com Message-Id: <990125085653.119423@centum.utulsa.edu> Subject: H-COST: Moy Dress/Help with research Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" I have to admit it, I've come to a momentary standstill while I am waiting to hear back from my last few leads. So I come to ask any of you who have access to a series of texts known as _World Textile Abstracts_ if you would be willing to assist me in a bit of tedious research. I am trying to track down any information on the dress pulled from the Moy Bog, Co. Clare, Ireland, in 1931 (you know that 16th C era "Bog Dress" that's in all the photos? The one with the open front? This isn't it). This dress is discussed lightly in Dunleavy, and conceivably mentioned in McLintock (although, if so, it was so obscurely that it had no useable information). As far as I can tell, that was it. Dunleavy's source was the museum catalog number, which means that she was working from the actual garment. What I'm trying to find out is if there have been any other articles that have discussed this garment. I would be most grateful for any assistance or suggestions on where else to look. Marc Carlson lib_imc@centum.utulsa.edu _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 10:03:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA02325 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:03:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA10693; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:14:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA11984 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:11:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from centum.utulsa.edu (centum.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.199]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id IAA11971 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:11:37 -0700 (MST) Received: by centum.utulsa.edu for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 9:14:25 -0600 Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 9:14:25 -0600 From: "I. Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Message-Id: <990125091425.119423@centum.utulsa.edu> Subject: Re: H-COST: Shinrone Gown Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" > > I've just been looking over the Shinrone Gown page again, and I find myself > intrigued by the unusual shape of the front opening. The way it's cut over > the abdomen in that "keyhole" shape, patticularly. Once again, I surmise > that this is a maternity dress. The shape seems ideal for pregnancy, as > there is bust support and it leaves accomodation for a belly to grow and be > proudly displayed. > I'm no expert on 16th century women's fashions, but isn't it likely that there's just part of the garment, say some sort of removeable "stomacher" panel that's missing? I know that some of the women I know who wear 16c garments wear them. Certainly, they don't appear on the drawings of Irish native dress we have, but weren't the English starting to seriously "encourage" the Irish to wear more "civilized" (at least to them) clothes by then? Marc Carlson lib_imc@centum.utulsa.edu _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 11:45:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02892 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:44:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA23352; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:55:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA28833 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:52:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooter.bluemarble.net (shooter.bluemarble.net [204.89.253.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA28818 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:52:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from wizzer (tc1-08.blm.bluemarble.net [208.245.166.105]) by shooter.bluemarble.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA17153 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:52:25 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990125115341.007ce100@bluemarble.net> X-Sender: kimberly@bluemarble.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:53:41 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kimberly Gilbert Subject: Re: H-COST: Color associations In-Reply-To: <19981230.145028.4783.0.cley@juno.com> References: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3017B065B@nt13pv.apsc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kimberly Gilbert I know the thread about wearing the color green has died down, but I just came across this on the Color Matters web site. "In Celtic myths the Green man was the God of fertility. Later in the millennium, Early Christians banned green because it had been used in pagan ceremonies." I didn't see any sources, so I don't know how accurate this is. Still, it is interesting to consider. It might explain how green then went on to be associated with loose morals/grass stains and why there are stories that are intended to deter the wearing of green. Thanks to everyone who was so forthcoming with information on these color topics. It was fascinating to read all your information. Kimberly Kimberly Gilbert kimberly@bluemarble.net "This is terrible news! Do you actually intend to kill your enemies? Can't you just speak sternly to them?" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 12:14:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03085 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:14:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA27668; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:24:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA04513 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:21:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (mg134-121.ricochet.net [204.179.134.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA04487 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:21:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from ricochet.net (athene.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.14]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA03352 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:24:50 -0800 Message-ID: <36ACA921.44D0AD30@ricochet.net> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:26:16 -0800 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-cost Subject: H-COST: Circle Houppelande (picture update) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Hi Folks, This summer we discussed the idea that one method of making the houppelande was as a quarter circle with the point of the circle above the shoulder. I finally found one of my pictures of the dress, although not from the front, and it's up on my website. Comments welcome. http://www.virtue.to/virtue/articles/circle_houp.html cv -- "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 13:27:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA03529 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:27:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA13996; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA22556 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:34:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA22455 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:34:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.202 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:33:27 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Levite Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:37:22 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be4891$d6b9a120$ca17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" http://www.jaffebros.com/lee/gulliver/bohn/bohn.2a.jpeg shows the Anglo-Irish early 18th century deshabille costume, the Levite. Can anyone confirm positively the name of the garment and its cut? Taken altogether, the various pictures of this garment suggest a raglan sleeve version like the one shown here. Other versions exist and are also of interest. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 14:18:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03856 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:18:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA21535; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:27:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA01962 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:24:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA01890 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:24:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA28976 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:23:16 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp189-145.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.145]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03751 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:22:47 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199901251922.UAA03751@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: OT/Yiddish Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:52:46 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Somebody wrote: > >This is untrue. High and Low are more geographical designations. Yiddish is > >a form of High German. > > They are not geographical designations, but dialectgroups formed by the slow change of the original Westgermanic (note: not german, but germanic) language. Kayta wrote: > Last I heard, "Low German" was what all social classes spoke in the "Low > Countries". And you can't get much lower than Holland in terms of feet > below sea level. > The Dutch language, which has kept many unique and very old Oldgermanic aspects, is a member of the same family as Low and High German, Frisian and English are, but it is a seperate language. Some of us do indeed live below sealevel, but behind strong dikes (no pun intended, that's what they are called). Everyonce in a while we get wet feet, but most of the time we keep fairly dry, thank you. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 14:25:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03897 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:25:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA22872; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:35:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA03562 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:33:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA03482 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:32:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from picard.dnaco.net (aleed@picard.dnaco.net [207.238.206.4]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA22810 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:36:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by picard.dnaco.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA02618 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:34:12 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: picard.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:34:11 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Anatomie of Abuses? In-Reply-To: <7abc2f29.36a8f70f@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed Stubbes hated the fashionable froo-fra of the day, and sounded off about it at length and in great detail. As a result, he's a great resource for people trying to recreate historical fashions. Drea On Fri, 22 Jan 1999 SNSpies@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com > > << Philip Stubbes Anatomie of Abuses & other writings, >> > > Could you please tell me what this is about? Thanks. > > Nancy > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 14:51:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04035 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:51:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA27008; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:02:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA08032 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:00:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA08021 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:00:01 -0700 (MST) From: Gerekr@aol.com Received: from Gerekr@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ILGWa04329 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:55:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8f0a9fbe.36accc31@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:55:29 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: medieval hairnet instructions? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Claris Emailer v2.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gerekr@aol.com Ancient history here... by the time I realized I was interested in this, the original post with the URL was gone, and I've had zip-all luck finding it by myself... re-post, please? Thanks, Chimene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 15:17:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04195 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:17:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA01585; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:27:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA12254 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:25:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from latte.2xtreme.net (latte.2xtreme.net [208.147.33.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA12237 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:25:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 4290 invoked from network); 25 Jan 1999 20:24:56 -0000 Received: from p248.stk5.2xtreme.net (HELO 2xtreme.net) (209.21.55.248) by latte.2xtreme.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 1999 20:24:56 -0000 Message-ID: <36ACD32C.6B36C5B7@2xtreme.net> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:25:16 -0800 From: Stephen Bergdahl X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cloth-of-gold References: <415a1c5c.36abf663@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Stephen Bergdahl Working with Tissue Lame is not that difficult. I've made a number of costumes out of it over the years. As it has been pointed out you do have to back it. What I use is 100% cotton either sheeting or broadcloth depending on what weight you want the finished fabric. I cut the pattern piece out of both the tissue and the cotton than over lock them together and then sew up the sandwich pieces together like I would any other pattern. I have had no problems with the wear or tearing. Also the cotton makes them much more comfortable to wear. You can also change the color of the gold by changing the color of the cotton. If you back it in a yellow cotton the gold is much brighter. A dark red will give the gold an antique look. I have also used some patterned cotton to produce some fun effects. Hope this helps! Yours Stephen Bergdahl - Madly Stitching CONNECT@aol.com wrote: > -Poster: CONNECT@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/24/99 11:23:53 PM, dnunn@interlog.com writes: > > <<>At that price, it makes $100/yd silk velvet look like a bargain basement > >fabric! (huge grin) > > Ooooo. Is that COMPLETELY (i.e. no rayon sneeking in) silk velevet? Where > or where? We can only find rayon pile on a silk ground up here. > > Cheers, > Danielle>> > > Designer Fabric Outlet (also know as the Oarge Bag Store) in Toronto, Ontario > has 100% silk velvet for only $120 CAN a yard. > > Yours, > Pattie Rayl > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 15:25:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04239 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:25:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA02677; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:35:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA13685 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:33:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA13653; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:33:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from [212.229.31.221] (helo=unikko.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 104sh6-0005Dy-00; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:33:13 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:23:26 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" From: Paul Poynton Subject: Re: H-COST: Baa Baa Black Sheep In-Reply-To: <199901241827_MC2-67D6-57@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (16) Trial Version 3.05 <95XV16Plfedk7fzg6D1HKNcaVt> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Paul Poynton In message <199901241827_MC2-67D6-57@compuserve.com>, Melanie Wilson writes > >-Poster: Melanie Wilson > >>Do pure bred Texel sheep come in any other colour than white, dark brown >for instance. > >Sorry not familiar with that breed , is it an American breed ? > >Mel > The Texel breed of sheep oridginally comes from Holland. There is also a British Texel. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Paul Poynton _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 16:14:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA04535 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:14:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11508; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:23:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA20901 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:05:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mb06.swip.net (mb06.swip.net [193.12.122.210]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA20880 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:05:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.244.62.17] (dialup62-1-17.swipnet.se [130.244.62.17]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA25858 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:05:31 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: md21199@dredd.swip.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:29:16 +0100 To: H-COSTUME From: Ninni M Pettersson Subject: H-COST: Doll maker's list? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ninni M Pettersson Greetings! A little while ago someone wrote about a special doll maker's list. I thought I had kept that message, but now that I need it, I of course find that I haven't :-) So please, whoever you are, will you send that info to me? Thanks in advance, Ninni Pettersson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 16:38:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA04681 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:38:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA16001; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:48:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA04945 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:46:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA04890 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:46:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA28988 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:23:19 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp189-145.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.145]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03787 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:22:54 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199901251922.UAA03787@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Baa Baa Black Sheep Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:58:41 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi Mel, > >Do pure bred Texel sheep come in any other colour than white, dark brown > for instance. > > Sorry not familiar with that breed , is it an American breed ? No, it's a Dutch white sheep, but I sometimes see some 'black' sheep among the hundreds of white ones around here. Texel is an island aff the north coast of the province of North Holland. I guess this is where they bred them first. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 17:22:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05006 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:22:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA24712; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:32:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA15621 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:24:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA15451 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:24:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p28.directcon.net [206.170.184.77]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA00203 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:18:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:18:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901252218.OAA00203@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: RE: H-COST: Neck Ruffs Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson > >I just have to reiterate that YOU make them that way and they work for you. > There are EXISTING, SURVIVING RUFFS which are essentially cartridge >pleated and sewn to the neck band along the top edge. So saying your way >is the only way they were done is as silly as my saying my way was the only >way they were done. If you look at portraits you will also notice for just >about everything there was more than one style. :) I don't recall ever saying that my way is the only way. Most of my work is done for actors working within guidelines that state that their costumes should relect the usual, not the less common, styles. I haven't seen the Janet Arnold article, to my annoyance, but I'm familiar with the standard references for the period and I can't recall ever seeing a photo, or even a description, of *any* extant ruff, never mind the method of construction. If, having done the amount of research I have, I haven't found pictorial evidence of cartridge pleating ruffs to the neck band, I feel justified in assuming that it was a fairly uncommon style, and not one I would choose to use. I'm describing how to make a ruff by what I believe, based on research and experimentation, is the most common method used at the time. This is my opinion. Of course I can't claim it was the only way, but it is the one I use because I believe it's the best choice for my requirements. I used to make them with cartridge pleating, too, and it does make a very regularly pleated, tidy ruff, but it doesn't give the look I was trying for. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 17:29:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05044 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:29:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA26279; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:40:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA19060 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:38:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA19026 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:37:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p28.directcon.net [206.170.184.77]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA02044 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:32:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:32:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901252232.OAA02044@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Shinrone Gown Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson A >I'm no expert on 16th century women's fashions, but isn't it likely that >there's just part of the garment, say some sort of removeable "stomacher" >panel that's missing? Yes, I think it probably was worn with a stomacher, especially if it's a maternity garment, as laces or ties across a pregnancy bulge could be uncomfortable with just a chemise. We know 16th century women wore stomachers in pregnancy, I believe there's a quote in Ashelford, which of course I just took back to the library. It's the odd shape of the opening, which is wider over the belly than at the top, which makes me think it's a maternity dress. When I first saw photos of it, I thought it was caused by its being displayed on a too large mannequin and that the opening was forced wider, but apparently further inspection has shown that it actually is cut that way. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 17:35:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05086 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:35:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA27256; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:46:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA20638 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:43:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA20626 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:43:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p28.directcon.net [206.170.184.77]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA02699 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:38:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:38:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901252238.OAA02699@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Doll maker's list? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson > > A little while ago someone wrote about a special doll maker's list. >I thought I had kept that message, but now that I need it, I of course find >that I haven't :-) So please, whoever you are, will you send that info to >me? Hi Ninni: Here's the URL for information about the dollmakers list. See you there! Margo >Usage guidelines for the dollmakers list are located at >www.everink.com/dm >along with automated forms to subscribe, unsubscribe, or perform other >listserv tasks. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 18:17:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05320 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:17:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA05149; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:27:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA28769 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:25:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA28731 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:25:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.128]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id PAA02850; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:25:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id PAA19207; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:25:13 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhQDvmyHpfN67Euwx15pOBN4Fp78HgIVAMy25+n4MINzwnRuG5K9Euy/xT9Z From: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:25:13 -0700 (MST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: medieval hairnet instructions? Message-ID: <20432-36ACFD59-928@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: Gerekr@aol.com's message of Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:55:29 EST Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) I also lost this wonderful article and found it by looking at Drea's Elizabethan Costume site. I love her work. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5145/nets.html YIS Starsinger _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 18:27:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05374 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:26:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA06767; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:37:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA00576 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:34:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA00559 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:34:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.128]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id PAA04499; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:34:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id PAA20834; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:33:56 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhQRocA8mOlwWr63u5MSPxR/sAiXGgIUEWkQbNEt0aJPeclryLN15nqvag4= From: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:33:56 -0700 (MST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: medieval hairnet instructions? Message-ID: <20430-36ACFF64-1016@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell)'s message of Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:25:13 -0700 (MST) Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Sorry, that was the pictures of the hairnets http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5145/hairnet.html Starsinger _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 19:24:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05711 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:24:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA14909; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:34:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA10856 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:32:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA10793 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:32:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.178] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 104wQc-00065q-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:32:27 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990125161607.00c1b7f0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:30:26 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Cloth-of-gold In-Reply-To: <19990124024525.11751.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >It is my understanding that cloth-of-gold no longer exists, correct? >If so, is there any way to "fake" it with modern materials? I have a couple of pieces of cloth of silver which are at least from the 1920's, maybe older. On is part of a doll dress. The stuff is loosely woven, as you might suspect, but not especially sheer. Mine are silk one way and silver-plated copper the other (I tested a wire). It folds much better parallel to the wire than across it. Folding across the wires puts bends in them which are nearly impossible to re-straighten. The cloth is stiff, so I wouldn't make a scarf out of it, and it's too stiff and heavy for a shirt. Trousers would be possible. The real thing has a sheen like changeable taffeta, silver one way and the silk colour the other way. I don't know how I'd copy that in tissue lame', which is flat and drapey by comparison. Copying the tarnish - even a realistic little bit of tarnish - would also be tough. If I were looking for cloth of gold I would go to an India import store which had high-end sarees. You might find something there. I can usually find saree trim with metal gold threads in it. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 19:29:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05738 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:29:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA15586; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:40:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA11697 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:38:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA11677 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:38:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from vaxxine.com (ppp87.analg-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.212.185]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18273 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:38:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36AD1A40.CFA132FC@vaxxine.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:28:33 -0600 From: Sheridan Alder X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Menswear - an another theory References: <36ABFEF1.9E0A3164@earthlink.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------0B9E3ED5ABAC29DACD0395B6" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sheridan Alder --------------0B9E3ED5ABAC29DACD0395B6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As much as I enjoyed this delicious phrase, the "Great Masculine Renunciation", (thanks, Laurel, for sharing it with us!) I prefer another theory. Modern, democratic people are SO reluctant to use the "C" word -"class". Humans are monkeys or chickens, always reacting to changes in the social order and our own perceived status. You could also attribute this considerable change in male clothing style to the "Great Masculine Retaliation"! By the French Revolution the Industrial Revolution (or evolution, as some economists would have it) had been proceeding for fifty years. Novelists such as Smollet, Sterne and Fielding had been taking literary pot shots at the parvenu's and "Nabobs" who had been merrily making their fortunes abroad and at home, and were conspicuously spending it in Bath and elsewhere. Not to mention every footman or apprentice who spent everything he had on the finest and most impractical clothes he could afford. I'm sure we all know their modern counterparts - people who "haven't got a pot to piss in , or a window to throw it out of" who spend what little they have on a sports car or a Rolex. What better way to signal your real class, when obnoxious fools like "Romeo" Coates were tooling around Regency London in (by then) ridiculous and ostentatious silks and satins, than to affect exquisitely and subtly tailored garments that only those "in the know"- presumably your peers with similar family background, education and value systems, (or those with both money and enough smarts to suss out how to REALLY fit in) could recognize?. A modern example - when I was working in Ottawa in the '80's (the capital of Canada, and where all good civil servants go when they die) you could usually guess female employees' position by their dress. Many of the clerical staff sported "Dynasty" and "Dallas" knock-offs (remember those dresses gathered at the shoulders, wrapped over, that Crystal always wore!) - sexier, more revealing, (and cheap) clothes. Professional women dressed more conservatively in quiet understated suits and dresses. I'm sure the clerical staff thought the clothes of the professionals were boring, and the professionals thought the clerical staff dressed unprofessionally, insofar as they thought about it at all. Both groups had different perceptions and aspirations. So people are still signaling status like crazy- the cues are just more subtle - "Bombazine would show a deeper sense of loss" and "the little black dress". This system is even better- it's not enough to just have money! you need to have an eye and taste. And a lot of people don't have and never will develop the "eye". Look how much we enjoy it when the tabloids pillory some celebrity for wearing something dreadful to the Oscars. Canada's own Marlen Cowpland is a case in point. On the subject of class, an excellent antidote to Titanic-mania is Robert Roberts "The Classic Slum" where describes a pre-WWI Manchester slum. Some costume stuff, although I doubt if anyone in this group will ever be driven to re-enact an Edwardian scuttler, moll or old queen, but it's interesting for it's complex and sympathetic depiction of an almost vanished working class mindset. In many ways, people thought very differently, but the poor were also as acutely class-conscious as the most competitive subdivision. (I mention this because I've heard so much "the poor never did this because..." ad naseum from reenactors on various topics .) I wish I could remember the original source for this theory. Guess my eye is willing but my brain is weak. Sheridan Alder --------------0B9E3ED5ABAC29DACD0395B6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As much as I enjoyed this delicious phrase, the "Great Masculine Renunciation",
(thanks, Laurel,  for sharing it with us!) I prefer  another  theory. Modern,
democratic people are SO reluctant to use the "C" word -"class". Humans
are  monkeys or chickens, always reacting to changes in the social order and
our own perceived status. You could also attribute this considerable change in
male clothing style to the "Great Masculine Retaliation"!

By the French Revolution the Industrial Revolution (or evolution, as some
economists would have it) had been proceeding for fifty years. Novelists such
as Smollet, Sterne and Fielding had been taking literary pot shots at the
parvenu's and "Nabobs" who had been merrily making their fortunes abroad
and at home, and were conspicuously spending it in Bath and elsewhere.
Not to mention every footman or apprentice who spent everything he had
on the finest and most impractical clothes he could afford. I'm sure we all know
their modern counterparts - people who "haven't got a pot to piss in , or a
window to throw it out of" who spend what little they have on a sports car or a
Rolex.

What better way to signal your real class, when obnoxious fools like "Romeo"
Coates were tooling around Regency London in (by then) ridiculous and
ostentatious silks and satins, than to affect exquisitely and subtly tailored
garments that only those "in the know"- presumably your peers with similar
family background, education and value systems, (or those with both
money and enough smarts to suss out how to REALLY fit in) could recognize?.

A modern example - when I was working in Ottawa in the '80's (the capital of
Canada, and where all good civil servants go when they die) you could usually
guess female employees' position by their dress. Many of the clerical staff
sported "Dynasty" and "Dallas" knock-offs (remember those dresses gathered
at the shoulders, wrapped over, that Crystal always wore!) - sexier, more
revealing, (and cheap) clothes.  Professional women dressed more
conservatively in quiet understated suits and dresses. I'm sure the clerical
staff thought the clothes of the professionals  were boring, and the
professionals thought the clerical staff dressed unprofessionally, insofar as
they thought about it at all. Both groups had different perceptions and
aspirations.

So people are still signaling status like crazy- the cues are just more subtle -
"Bombazine would show a deeper sense of loss" and "the little black dress".
This system is even better- it's not enough to just have money! you need to
have an eye and taste. And a lot of people don't have and never will develop
the "eye". Look how much we enjoy it when the tabloids pillory some celebrity
for wearing something dreadful to the Oscars. Canada's own Marlen Cowpland
is a case in point.

On the subject of class, an excellent antidote to Titanic-mania is Robert Roberts
"The Classic Slum" where describes a pre-WWI Manchester slum. Some costume
stuff, although I doubt if anyone in this group will ever be driven to re-enact
an Edwardian scuttler, moll or old queen, but it's interesting for it's complex
and sympathetic depiction of an almost vanished working class mindset. In many
ways, people thought very differently, but the poor were also as acutely class-conscious
as the most competitive subdivision. (I mention this because I've heard so much
"the poor never did this because..." ad naseum from reenactors on various topics .)

I wish I could remember the original source for this theory. Guess my eye is willing but
my brain is weak.

Sheridan Alder
  --------------0B9E3ED5ABAC29DACD0395B6-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 20:09:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA05978 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:09:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA20362; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:20:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA17617 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:18:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA17575 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:18:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip213-90.cc.interlog.com [207.34.213.90]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA05952 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:18:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990125190337.00a51e10@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:03:37 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Dangerous Beauty In-Reply-To: <36AC1641.7148124@flash.net> References: <36ABFEF1.9E0A3164@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >On a slightly related note, can someone please tell me how were the men's clothes >in Dangerous Beauty. A male friend has fallen in love with a couple of the >outfits and was asking me how authentic they were. Wrong gender and time period >for me. >From what I remember they weren't too bad, certainly better than what the cortesans (sp?) were wearing. I don't think you can go too wrong with those. Have fun. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From Cheryl@sessionware.com Mon Jan 25 20:20:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from dynamic.sessionware.com (dynamic.sessionware.com [208.147.50.22]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA06055 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:20:23 -0500 Received: by dynamic.sessionware.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:31:40 -0800 Message-ID: <59E9557D345BD2118F2200A0C925BF9809AF14@dynamic.sessionware.com> From: Cheryl Melnick Subject: FAN-tastic update! European FANS just added! Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:31:37 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Status: O If you have received this message in error, please enter the word REMOVE in the Subject line. Your name will be removed from the mailing list. I was so excited about the latest addition to the International Fan Collector's Guild website, that I decided not to wait for the completion of all the other changes to be finished. I have just added 6 pages of antique fans from Serge Davoudian's store in Paris to the Dealer section! I'm not adding it to the front page yet; I wanted to give each of the Guild members a chance to purchase them first! Serge is already working on descriptions and pricing on the remaining fans, so please be a bit patient and I will post the detailed information as soon as its received! Enjoy the tour of Serge's Store! Cheryl Webmistress International Fan Collector's Guild http://www.hand-fan.org From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 20:21:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA06062 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:21:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA22000; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:31:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA19040 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:29:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA19031 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:29:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-86-186.s186.tnt6.rcm.erols.com [207.172.86.186]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA12901 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:29:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000101be48cb$647fa340$ba56accf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: "costume newsgroup" Subject: H-COST: Shakespear Treasure Hunt Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:29:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" This might be fun! This is a high school virtual classroom assignment, called Shakespeare Treasure Hunt at http://www.kn.pacbell.com/wired/fil/pages/huntshakespear3.html I found this page linked to my website when I was checking my daily stats. Yea!!! The high school kids are really getting into costume now a days. Check it out, its fun! Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 21:29:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06532 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:28:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA01137; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:39:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA26301 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:37:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (artemis.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA26287 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:37:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc (ppp33.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.153]) by artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA17415 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:38:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001801be48d5$5262e780$99a06480@dsc> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: Medieval hairnet instructions Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:41:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! I'm glad folks like my hairnet site.....I can attest that once you get the hang of making them, they're *really* easy and you can get them incredibly fine-scale (I used the smallest size metal netting needle from Lacis for the purple one I've got the pictures of--that was my third complete net.) If folks have any questions, feel free to ask! (And yes, I'm working on how to make them in the round.....) Susan Carroll-Clark www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5145/hairnet.html (Mistress Nicolaa de Bracton) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 22:11:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06776 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:11:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA07341; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:21:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA00917 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:19:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA00900 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:19:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from sue.computercrafters.com (pm3frd1-68-64.intrepid.net [206.102.68.64]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA04451 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:19:42 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990125222001.0086d390@intrepid.net> X-Sender: sshatto@intrepid.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:20:01 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sue Shatto Subject: Re: H-COST: CostumeCon In-Reply-To: <36AC2B0E.1E35@mc.net> References: <199901242212.PAA05517@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sue Shatto Where is the conference? At 12:27 AM 1/25/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Heather Law > >One of the members of our costumer's Guild will not be able to attend >CostumeCon. Her membership is on sale for $40 OBO. Contact >Maija123@worldnet.att.net >Carol Mitchell President Chicagoland Costumer's Guild > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > Cordially, Sue Shatto Sue@VictorianMillinery.com http://www.VictorianMillinery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 22:28:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06863 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:28:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA10891; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:39:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA02685 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:37:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id UAA02678 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:37:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 26639 invoked from network); 26 Jan 1999 03:32:46 -0000 Received: from 231.240.3-2.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO ?207.183.240.231?) (207.183.240.231) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 26 Jan 1999 03:32:46 -0000 X-Sender: karolee@keith.lloyd.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:37:19 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: karolee@fenris.net (Karolee Smiley) Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: karolee@fenris.net (Karolee Smiley) >I realized that if I took a long rectangle of fabric, gathered it along >the long edge, >and then put it around my neck, that the ruffles would unruffle at the outer >circumference -- not the right effect. Some ruffs have the ruffles close together- they are very tightly pleated and/or probably have some means of holding them together. However, there are some ruffs which are fairly open on the edge. In the English Icon p180- Mary Cornwallis has the former and Lettice Knollys has the latter (both in the 1580s). So some opening is seen in some large ruffs. It probably is a matter of taste. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . vs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >>This is how ruffs were made in period. After all, many, if not most, ruffs >>were made of lace, drawn thread cuttwork, or blackwork, none of which would >>lend themselves well to a ruff cut on the circle. However-many are only lace edged or are made of several pieces and even types of lace-which allows for a few possible variations. >>Anyone care to add to this? I've never made one, but they look easy >>enough, just a lot of hand work in pleating into the band. My husband and I have made a variety of collars (none of the BIG ruffs though). The collars were done on flat bands pleated and the Jacobean and cavalier collars were variations on the donut theme. The ones we made were pretty easy, but we aren't perfectly happy with them either. Of course, that is also due to the problems with underproppers. So I'm very eager to hear everyone's ideas. Karolee J. Smiley Kaitlin MacPherson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 22:35:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06907 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:35:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA11979; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:45:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA03280 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:43:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA03230 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:42:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.171 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:42:04 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Shinrone Gown Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:44:10 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be48de$7c8fefe0$ab17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199901252232.OAA02044@zeus.directcon.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Native Irish did not corset themselves. No stomachers have been found to my knowledge nor are any shown in the period woodcuts or watercolors I've seen. Period accounts I've seen speak of the woman's chemise showing through the lacings if she were poor, and the slightly better off tucking the ends of a silk neckscarf under the lacings. They had silk commonly as early as the 8th Century I believe.There is so little evidence, that it's not possible to say that there weren't stomachers, but there are a few pieces of evidence suggesting "no stomacher" was commonplace. While the shinrone gown might have been worn by someone during maternity, it's really not an ideal costume for it. The waist seam would be less comfortable than something loose, and there were plenty of loose alternative garments in that culture, usually belted when no pregnancy, easy enough to remove the belt or place it higher when pregnant. The standard belt for a millennia seems to have reached to the hem of the garment, so the belt was plenty long enough to tie in alternative ways. There are some period watercolors on the Reconstructing History WebPages which show the Shinrone gown, and it doesn't look like any of the women wearing it are pregnant. I also think there is evidence that large breasts are more common today than they were in olden times , and I can only speculate as to the reasons. But I've read that the Irish were strong and healthy and scarcely ever overweight, in distinction from their Anglo-Norman visitors and overlords. I just question the whole premise that bust support was any kind of universal necessity, especially for a people who were frequently without clothes entirely during the Anglo-Norman period, except if they were lucky, with an Irish "cape." Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Margo Anderson Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 5:33 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Shinrone Gown -Poster: Margo Anderson A >I'm no expert on 16th century women's fashions, but isn't it likely that >there's just part of the garment, say some sort of removeable "stomacher" >panel that's missing? Yes, I think it probably was worn with a stomacher, especially if it's a maternity garment, as laces or ties across a pregnancy bulge could be uncomfortable with just a chemise. We know 16th century women wore stomachers in pregnancy, I believe there's a quote in Ashelford, which of course I just took back to the library. It's the odd shape of the opening, which is wider over the belly than at the top, which makes me think it's a maternity dress. When I first saw photos of it, I thought it was caused by its being displayed on a too large mannequin and that the opening was forced wider, but apparently further inspection has shown that it actually is cut that way. Margo Anderson ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 22:53:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06989 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:53:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA15707; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:03:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA05453 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:01:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA05445 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:01:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.236 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:01:03 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Neck Ruffs Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:03:24 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be48e1$060e6240$ab17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199901252218.OAA00203@zeus.directcon.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Saw a painting today with a multitiered ruff, box-pleated and then gathered as well. Couldn't see enough to confirm a neck bank or not, but it spoke to the variety of ruffs out there! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Margo Anderson Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 5:19 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Neck Ruffs -Poster: Margo Anderson > >I just have to reiterate that YOU make them that way and they work for you. > There are EXISTING, SURVIVING RUFFS which are essentially cartridge >pleated and sewn to the neck band along the top edge. So saying your way >is the only way they were done is as silly as my saying my way was the only >way they were done. If you look at portraits you will also notice for just >about everything there was more than one style. :) I don't recall ever saying that my way is the only way. Most of my work is done for actors working within guidelines that state that their costumes should relect the usual, not the less common, styles. I haven't seen the Janet Arnold article, to my annoyance, but I'm familiar with the standard references for the period and I can't recall ever seeing a photo, or even a description, of *any* extant ruff, never mind the method of construction. If, having done the amount of research I have, I haven't found pictorial evidence of cartridge pleating ruffs to the neck band, I feel justified in assuming that it was a fairly uncommon style, and not one I would choose to use. I'm describing how to make a ruff by what I believe, based on research and experimentation, is the most common method used at the time. This is my opinion. Of course I can't claim it was the only way, but it is the one I use because I believe it's the best choice for my requirements. I used to make them with cartridge pleating, too, and it does make a very regularly pleated, tidy ruff, but it doesn't give the look I was trying for. Margo Anderson ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 23:31:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA07207 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:31:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA22718; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:42:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA09425 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:40:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA09408 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:40:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip110.denver8.co.pub-ip.psi.net [38.31.4.110]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA14414 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:40:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36AD4839.8B55ACAE@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:44:44 -0700 From: Mary Denise Smith Organization: Costume & Dressmaker Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: CostumeCon References: <199901242212.PAA05517@indra.com> <3.0.3.32.19990125222001.0086d390@intrepid.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mary Denise Smith Hi Sue, CostumeCon is in Cherry Hill NJ, just across the river from Philadelphia. Almost in your back yard! Take a look at the website, off of www.costumecon.org Hope this helps, Mary Denise Smith _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Jan 25 23:44:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA07266 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:44:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA24671; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:54:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA11150 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:52:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA11139 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:52:50 -0700 (MST) From: Schiap1@aol.com Received: from Schiap1@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id GNLCa04297 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:51:50 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <2a3425ab.36ad49e6@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:51:50 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Are there any textile forums like this one for costume? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Schiap1@aol.com I am also studying textiles. Is there a textile list that I could subscibe to? I tried looking up textiles on www.liszt.com (which is how I found this costume list) and it listed a TEXTILES list, but I am having trouble subscribing to it. I don't know if it's been discontinued or if I am doing it wrong through majordomo. I don't know what the server address is (is it also indra.com?). If anyone on this list also subscribes to the textiles list, could you please tell me the address to subscribe to it? Thanks in advance. Lyn FitzGerald _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 00:17:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA08051 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:17:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA01344; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:28:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA14302 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:26:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from centum.utulsa.edu (centum.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.199]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id WAA14291 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:26:38 -0700 (MST) Received: by centum.utulsa.edu for H-COSTUME@INDRA.COM; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:29:30 -0600 Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:29:30 -0600 From: "I. Marc Carlson" To: H-COSTUME@indra.com Message-Id: <990125232930.1022d9@centum.utulsa.edu> Subject: Re: H-COST: Shinrone Gown Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" > >...It's the odd shape of the opening, which is wider over the belly than at the >top, which makes me think it's a maternity dress. When I first saw photos >of it, I thought it was caused by its being displayed on a too large >mannequin and that the opening was forced wider, but apparently further >inspection has shown that it actually is cut that way. I can't say whether it's a maternity outfit (none of the women I know who wear stomachers, for example, have ever been pregnant), but it does appear to emphasize the tummy. Of course, the "peascod" belly on men's garments emphasizes the tummy more than a little bit :) Marc Carlson lib_imc@centum.utulsa.edu _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 02:25:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA08967 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 02:25:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA14090; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:36:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA23204 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:34:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from hil-img-9.compuserve.com (hil-img-9.compuserve.com [149.174.177.139]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA23199 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:34:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by hil-img-9.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id CAA23617 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 02:33:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 02:32:46 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Baa Baa black sheep To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901260233_MC2-67FD-F420@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id CAA08967 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson >The Texel breed of sheep oridginally comes from Holland. There is also a British Texel. Got it now I was having a particularly dyslexic day where written words don't line up with spoken. I still don't know the answer though :) But I can ask my sheep farmin friend, why on this breed particularly ? Look like Henk has seen black ones ! So I guess you can, I don't believe it is a breed known for other clours, ie I've never seen Texel black wool advertised as such in fleece sales Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 02:42:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA09122 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 02:42:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA14755; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:53:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA24116 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:51:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from send205.yahoomail.com (send205.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.129]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id AAA24109 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:51:46 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990126075118.17136.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Received: from [194.168.181.41] by send205.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:51:18 PST Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:51:18 -0800 (PST) From: Anne Foote Subject: H-COST: RE:tiny waists, photos To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Anne Foote Deb wrote recently giving web addresses for more photographs of Victorian ladies with extremely small waists. I know some of prints may have been retouched, but where they were not I cannot help wondering if their waists were like that all day or just hauled in for the studio sitting. They must have breathed a sigh of relief when loosened. I can remember 1960s firm control girdles - after a coming home from a party I can remember rushing upstairs with the only thought on my mind - getting the wretched girdle off. Hands up all those who sympathise with Joyce Grenfell, the British actress. She wrote in her autobio (1985 ?) "There is no pleasure so great as taking off a corset a the end of the day". Annie _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 02:52:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA09207 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 02:52:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA15134; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 01:01:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA24781 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 01:00:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA24776 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 01:00:24 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id PBKMa23181 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 02:59:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5541e1a8.36ad75e5@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 02:59:33 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Anatomie of Abuses? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/25/99 11:33:41 AM Pacific Standard Time, aleed@dnaco.net writes: > > -Poster: aleed > > > Stubbes hated the fashionable froo-fra of the day, and sounded off about > it at length and in great detail. As a result, he's a great resource > for people trying to recreate historical fashions. > With the caveat that a preacher inveighing against excesses is inclined to exaggerate. It's not entirely safe to take anything from Stubbe's literally without a back up source. MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 03:53:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA15175 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 03:53:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA18187; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 02:03:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA28081 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 02:02:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from morgoth.tuug.org (root@morgoth.tuug.org [130.232.72.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA28073 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 02:02:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from delenn.yok.utu.fi ([130.232.128.27] HELO delenn.yok.utu.fi ident: NO-IDENT-SERVICE [port 46085]) by tuug.org with SMTP id <40843-26972>; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:02:01 +0200 From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" Organization: Lyninine Federation To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:01:50 +2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: RE:tiny waists, photos Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19990126075118.17136.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990126090201Z40843-26972+38@tuug.org> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" On 25 Jan 99, at 23:51, Anne Foote wrote: > Hands up all those who sympathise with Joyce Grenfell, the British > actress. She wrote in her autobio (1985 ?) > "There is no pleasure so great as taking off a corset a the end of the > day". Actually, taking the corset off can feel very good even if the corset is extremely comfortable. I could almost imagine someone wearing a corset because getting out of it feels good. :) -- -------(c) 1999--------------* lynoure@tuug.org * Ella Lynoure Rajamaki--------* http://www.tuug.org/~lynoure * _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 05:46:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA15779 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 05:46:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA21675; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 03:57:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA18724 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 03:55:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from server1.mich.com (root@server1.mich.com [198.108.16.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA18418 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 03:55:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from raille (pm187-00.dialip.mich.net [198.110.44.10]) by server1.mich.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA19610 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 05:55:27 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990126060233.007b4100@onramp.i2k.com> X-Sender: alwen@onramp.i2k.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 06:02:33 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Lynn Carpenter Subject: H-COST: Netting in the round? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Carpenter "Susan Carroll-Clark" wrote: >I'm glad folks like my hairnet site.....I can attest that once you get the >hang of making them, they're *really* easy and you can get them incredibly >fine-scale (I used the smallest size metal netting needle from Lacis for the >purple one I've got the pictures of--that was my third complete net.) > >If folks have any questions, feel free to ask! (And yes, I'm working on how >to make them in the round.....) > >Susan Carroll-Clark >www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5145/hairnet.html >(Mistress Nicolaa de Bracton) When you say, netting in the round, do you mean making a circular net? I make and use these for bags quite a lot. The instructions I used were in Charles Holdgate's "Net Making," Emerson Books Inc., copyright 1972, "standard book number" 87523-180-2. To make a flat circle, I mesh 6-12-18 (etc., multiples of 6). To make a bag, after I get to the number of meshes I want, I just stop increasing, so it becomes tubular. And I can't make any post about netting without mentioning this beautiful and inspirational site, which also has instructions for circular netting: http://www.the-spa.com/bartholomew/netting/ Lynn Who *still* hasn't found size 18-22 cotton cable cord to make the hammock that inspired her to learn to net two summers ago! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 08:26:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA16644 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:26:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA29453; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 06:37:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA10217 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 06:35:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA10204 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 06:35:43 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id JFAKa05517 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:34:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5e72975c.36adc47e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:34:54 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: plain men Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Lauri: Thanks for that posting on "The Psychology of Clothes," I will have to look for it. I have long wondered why, when men wore fancier clothes than women for pretty much all of recorded history, men's clothes suddenly became so dull. If I were going back to school I'd do a Master's thesis about it -- and whether there is any corresponding wound to male psyches. I'm only partly kidding about the wounded psyche thing. I mean, it does look like male adornment is a pretty universal human thing. So perhaps depriving men of it hurts them in some way. Hey, there have been a lot dumber things claimed about women. Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 09:31:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01035 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:30:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA06989; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 07:39:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA16204 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 07:37:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f235.hotmail.com [207.82.251.126]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id HAA16193 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 07:37:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 23703 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jan 1999 14:37:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19990126143724.23702.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 157.182.175.116 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 06:37:24 PST X-Originating-IP: [157.182.175.116] From: "karrissa david" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Are there any textile forums like this one for costume? Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:37:24 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "karrissa david" The list on majordomo is discontinued. I had the same problem when I tried to find it. I discovered this by requesting the list from majordomo. I would also like more information on the study of historic textiles and colors. If there are other lists (or sources), I would like to have them emailed to me at Arizona63@hotmail.com. Thanks, Karrissa ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 10:25:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01899 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:25:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA08726; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 07:47:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA17163 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 07:45:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA17152 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 07:45:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA07866.; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:48:55 GMT Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:45:07 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:44:50 +0000 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: History of Menswear Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id KAA01899 Status: O -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" For the record, I have always understood that it was "Beau" Brummell who popularised the fashion for plain but exquisitely cut clothing during the Regency period. No doubt it was for the reasons given by other posters that the style caught on. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 11:08:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02324 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:08:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA22836; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:16:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA03294 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:15:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail4.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail4.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.33]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA03257 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:14:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mai040RS1.lib.ohio-state.edu (mai040s38M.lib.ohio-state.edu [128.146.115.31]) by mail4.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA09380 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:14:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990126161714.0069eec0@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: mhamilto@pop.service.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:17:14 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Marsha J. Hamilton" Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Marsha J. Hamilton" Has anyone ever tried wiring the outer edge of the ruff to help it maintain the shape? Some of the Elizabethan standing ruffs must have been wired from the look of the portraits. Anyone have any info? Marsha _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 11:48:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02532 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:48:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA01400; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:56:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA11190 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:55:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA11091 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:54:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from picard.dnaco.net (aleed@picard.dnaco.net [207.238.206.4]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA02565 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:57:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by picard.dnaco.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA16258 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:55:55 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: picard.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:55:55 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19990126161714.0069eec0@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed I know that some people use a layer of horsehair braid along the edge of their ruffs to keep the edges crisper. Drea On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Marsha J. Hamilton wrote: > > -Poster: "Marsha J. Hamilton" > > Has anyone ever tried wiring the outer edge of the ruff to help it > maintain the shape? Some of the Elizabethan standing ruffs must have > been wired from the look of the portraits. Anyone have any info? > > Marsha > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 12:28:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA02802 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:28:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA08783; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:36:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA18428 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:35:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id KAA18357 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:34:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 9041 invoked from network); 26 Jan 1999 17:37:12 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-48.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.48) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 1999 17:37:12 -0000 Message-ID: <36AE2163.480E@mc.net> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:11:15 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: cloth-of-gold: fakin' it References: <199901260032.RAA10886@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Thai (Exotic) Silks and a few other silk places have the silk/metallic "tissui" for around $8-$12 a yard. This stuff is sheer, but would take to fusing with a backing (woven fusible interfacing would be my choice). Since most of the companies have a 10-17-yard minimum, I'd buy either the white/silver or white/gold, then dye pieces of it to the colors you want. (Jacquard is especially formulated for silk, Dylon and Procion should also work.) Y.I.S., Heather > > If I were looking for cloth of gold I would go to an India import store > which had high-end sarees. You might find something there. I can usually > find saree trim with metal gold threads in it. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 13:00:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA03361 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:00:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA14780; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:08:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA24566 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:06:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA24555 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:06:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18561 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:05:55 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp189-144.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.144]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05546 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:05:52 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199901261805.TAA05546@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Menswear - an another theory Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:00:24 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi List, Sheridan wrote: As much as I enjoyed this delicious phrase, the "Great Masculine Renunciation", (thanks, Laurel, for sharing it with us!) I prefer another theory. Modern, democratic people are SO reluctant to use the "C" word -"class". Humans are monkeys or chickens, always reacting to changes in the social order and our own perceived status. You could also attribute this considerable change in male clothing style to the "Great Masculine Retaliation"! By the French Revolution the Industrial Revolution (or evolution, as some economists would have it) had been proceeding for fifty years. Novelists such as Smollet, Sterne and Fielding had been taking literary pot shots at the parvenu's and "Nabobs" who had been merrily making their fortunes abroad and at home, and were conspicuously spending it in Bath and elsewhere. Not to mention every footman or apprentice who spent everything he had on the finest and most impractical clothes he could afford. I'm sure we all know their modern counterparts - people who "haven't got a pot to piss in , or a window to throw it out of" who spend what little they have on a sports car or a Rolex. What better way to signal your real class, when obnoxious fools like "Romeo" Coates were tooling around Regency London in (by then) ridiculous and ostentatious silks and satins, than to affect exquisitely and subtly tailored garments that only those "in the know"- presumably your peers with similar family background, education and value systems, (or those with both money and enough smarts to suss out how to REALLY fit in) could recognize?. A modern example - when I was working in Ottawa in the '80's (the capital of Canada, and where all good civil servants go when they die) you could usually guess female employees' position by their dress. Many of the clerical staff sported "Dynasty" and "Dallas" knock-offs (remember those dresses gathered at the shoulders, wrapped over, that Crystal always wore!) - sexier, more revealing, (and cheap) clothes. Professional women dressed more conservatively in quiet understated suits and dresses. I'm sure the clerical staff thought the clothes of the professionals were boring, and the professionals thought the clerical staff dressed unprofessionally, insofar as they thought about it at all. Both groups had different perceptions and aspirations. So people are still signaling status like crazy- the cues are just more subtle - "Bombazine would show a deeper sense of loss" and "the little black dress". This system is even better- it's not enough to just have money! you need to have an eye and taste. And a lot of people don't have and never will develop the "eye". Look how much we enjoy it when the tabloids pillory some celebrity for wearing something dreadful to the Oscars. Canada's own Marlen Cowpland is a case in point. On the subject of class, an excellent antidote to Titanic-mania is Robert Roberts "The Classic Slum" where describes a pre-WWI Manchester slum. Some costume stuff, although I doubt if anyone in this group will ever be driven to re-enact an Edwardian scuttler, moll or old queen, but it's interesting for it's complex and sympathetic depiction of an almost vanished working class mindset. In many ways, people thought very differently, but the poor were also as acutely class-conscious as the most competitive subdivision. (I mention this because I've heard so much "the poor never did this because..." ad naseum from reenactors on various topics .) I wish I could remember the original source for this theory. Guess my eye is willing but my brain is weak. I would like for 100 % to support his theory. But not only in the age of the Industrial and French Revolution has class dictated fashion and have the not so rich and tasteful aped them: this is from all ages. I could show you behaviour like this in the middle ages as well, but I won't, because I have done so often enough and most medieval re-enactors among you know these sources as well as I. Thanks, Sheridan, Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 13:55:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA03672 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:55:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA24974; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:02:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA05263 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:00:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA05189 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:00:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p23.directcon.net [206.170.184.72]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA02602 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:54:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:54:55 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901261854.KAA02602@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: History of Menswear Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson > >For the record, I have always understood that it was "Beau" Brummell who popularised the fashion for plain but exquisitely cut clothing during the Regency period. No doubt it was for the reasons given by other posters that the style caught on. > I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I understood that the changeover to more somber clothes for men in England occurred after Prince Albert's death, when the entire nation went into mourning. Of course, social factors have much to do with it, but it was probably a factor. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 14:01:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03713 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:01:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA26114; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:09:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA06679 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:08:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA06617 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:08:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p23.directcon.net [206.170.184.72]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03431 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:03:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:03:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901261903.LAA03431@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 11:17 AM 1/26/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Marsha J. Hamilton" > >Has anyone ever tried wiring the outer edge of the ruff to help it >maintain the shape? I've tried it and didn't like it--every time I moved my head I bent the wire out of shape. I've had better luck with heavy fishing line, handpicked, zigzagged or serged to the edge. Of course, this is only a good idea if you hide it in a fold or cover it with trim. For one of the large, flat standing collars, wire would be necessary. I've only made them for dolls, not people, so movement wasn't a problem. To make a full size one, you would need to use a very rigid wire, not a soft one. Heavy millinery wire might work, and would have the advantage that it's fabric covered and fairly unobtrusive. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 14:08:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03763 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:08:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA27409; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:16:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA07929 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:15:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA07921 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:15:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip20.an7-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.18.20]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA01415 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:15:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36AE06EB.E97B377C@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:18:20 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Are there any textile forums like this one for costume? References: <19990126143724.23702.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson karrissa david wrote: > I would also like more information on the study of historic textiles and > colors. If there are other lists (or sources), I would like to have them > emailed to me at Arizona63@hotmail.com. > I too am interested, so if anybody has this info, please share it with the whole list. Thanks, Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 14:12:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03802 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:12:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA27955; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:19:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA08404 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:18:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA08397 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:18:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p23.directcon.net [206.170.184.72]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA04636 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:13:29 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:13:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901261913.LAA04636@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: Picot? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson I'm making a 1920's dress in silk chiffon, working from a contempory dressmaking instruction manual. The instructions for edging the draped skirt panels simply tell me to have the pieces "picoted". I understand that there used to be businesses that did this, but they are no more. Can anyone tell me what modern finish would be the closest aproximation to picoting? My serger manual gives instructions for a "picot hem" which seems to involve using the rolled hem setting, but with a long stitch. Would that be it? I also have a baby hemmer for my standard machine, but I'm not good with it, especially on corners, which this piece has. My client's budget does not extend to having me hand roll the hem. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 14:13:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03809 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:13:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA28113; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA08544 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:19:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA08533 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:19:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip20.an7-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.18.20]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA07122 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:19:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36AE07FE.9ACA87E8@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:22:56 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: History of Menswear References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson KATE M BUNTING wrote: > > > For the record, I have always understood that it was "Beau" Brummell who popularised the fashion for plain but exquisitely cut clothing during the Regency period. Although Beau Brummell certainly helped to popularize the fashion in its most subdued form, it actually began as early as the second quarter of the 18th century in England. There's an article by a historian named David Kuchta (I am unfortunately unable to put my hands on the reference, but I will find it and post it) that gives a good overview. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 14:22:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03885 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:22:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA29746; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:30:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA10217 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:29:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from centum.utulsa.edu (centum.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.199]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA10172 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:29:25 -0700 (MST) Received: by centum.utulsa.edu for H-COSTUME@INDRA.COM; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:32:20 -0600 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:32:20 -0600 From: "I. Marc Carlson" To: H-COSTUME@indra.com Message-Id: <990126133220.15505a@centum.utulsa.edu> Subject: H-COST: Possible misrepresentation (was Anatomie of Abuses?) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" >With the caveat that a preacher inveighing against excesses is inclined to >exaggerate. It's not entirely safe to take anything from Stubbe's literally >without a back up source. Not simply exaggeration, but often when someone is attempting to ridicule someone else, they take an extreme detail and emphasize that to the exclusion of everything else to that the extreme assumes an important all out of proportion to the reality (e.g., the medieval pointed shoe that was so long it had to be chained to the knee is either an exaggeration or a misrepresentation of an extreme example). Personally, with the discussion of the Shinrone Gown and some of my other research lately, I'm forced to wonder if that isn't some of the reason for the appearance of some of the 16th century drawings of Irish garments. I mean, the grave sculptures are probably fairly accurate, but some of the drawings are almost caricaturish in their extremes. Now, since the English (and possibly pro-English Irish) were doing the drawings, and they were trying to do things like outlaw Irish-specific things, like clothing styles, it stands to reason (at least to me) that making those look laughable would help that. Conversely, the English (sorry Mel) often looked down on the Irish in general (not to mention many of their other neighbors), and presenting them as looking foolish in general wouldn't be too hard for me to believe. Of course, this is just speculation. Marc Carlson lib_imc@centum.utulsa.edu _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 14:27:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03965 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:27:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA25193; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:03:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA03531 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:50:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA03515 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:50:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p23.directcon.net [206.170.184.72]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA01383 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:45:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:45:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901261845.KAA01383@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: RE: H-COST: Shinrone Gown Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 10:44 PM 1/25/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >Native Irish did not corset themselves. No stomachers have >been found to my knowledge nor are any shown in the period >woodcuts or watercolors I've seen. I agree that it seems unlikely that Irish women wore any form of corset. The reference to a stomacher for maternity wear that I was thinking of, though, speaks of it as a garment worn for warmth, while riding. Perhaps "stomacher" in this context means some sort of waistcoat or other warm garment. At any rate, it's English, not Irish, so I'm grasping at straws here. I'm not sure that the presence of a waist seam precludes this as a maternity garment. I wore my Ren Faire bodice and skirt quite comfortably during pregnancy, by lacing across the waistband gap and covering it with an apron, and leaving the bottom hooks of my bodice open. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 15:37:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04844 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:37:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA11266; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:44:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA28346 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:43:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA28284 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:43:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [209.48.224.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA27405 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:43:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:41:54 -0500 (EST) From: Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Shinrone Gown In-Reply-To: <000201be48de$7c8fefe0$ab17ffd0@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mara Riley I'd be interested to hear more about the 'alternative garments' you're talking about, since, aside from those DeHeere drawings, I haven't seen any other evidence for Irish women's clothing. Also, it's pretty well accepted that when the English said the Irish went naked beneath their brats, it meant they were wearing a linen leine (which had a long history in Ireland as a primary outer garment) without any 'proper' woolen garments over it. The English would have seen this as the equivalent of running around in one's nightshirt -- i.e., running around naked. Regards, Mara On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, Hope H. Dunlap wrote: > > -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > Native Irish did not corset themselves. No stomachers have > been found to my knowledge nor are any shown in the period > woodcuts or watercolors I've seen. Period accounts I've > seen speak of the woman's chemise showing through the > lacings if she were poor, and the slightly better off > tucking the ends of a silk neckscarf under the lacings. They > had silk commonly as early as the 8th Century I > believe.There is so little evidence, that it's not possible > to say that there weren't stomachers, but there are a few > pieces of evidence suggesting "no stomacher" was > commonplace. While the shinrone gown might have been worn > by someone during maternity, it's really not an ideal > costume for it. The waist seam would be less comfortable > than something loose, and there were plenty of loose > alternative garments in that culture, usually belted when no > pregnancy, easy enough to remove the belt or place it higher > when pregnant. The standard belt for a millennia seems to > have reached to the hem of the garment, so the belt was > plenty long enough to tie in alternative ways. There are > some period watercolors on the Reconstructing History > WebPages which show the Shinrone gown, and it doesn't look > like any of the women wearing it are pregnant. I also think > there is evidence that large breasts are more common today > than they were in olden times , and I can only speculate as > to the reasons. But I've read that the Irish were strong and > healthy and scarcely ever overweight, in distinction from > their Anglo-Norman visitors and overlords. I just question > the whole premise that bust support was any kind of > universal necessity, especially for a people who were > frequently without clothes entirely during the Anglo-Norman > period, except if they were lucky, with an Irish "cape." > > Hope H. Dunlap > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com > [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Margo Anderson > Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 5:33 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Shinrone Gown > > > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > A > >I'm no expert on 16th century women's fashions, but isn't > it likely that > >there's just part of the garment, say some sort of > removeable "stomacher" > >panel that's missing? > > Yes, I think it probably was worn with a stomacher, > especially if it's a > maternity garment, as laces or ties across a pregnancy bulge > could be > uncomfortable with just a chemise. We know 16th century > women wore > stomachers in pregnancy, I believe there's a quote in > Ashelford, which of > course I just took back to the library. > > It's the odd shape of the opening, which is wider over the > belly than at the > top, which makes me think it's a maternity dress. When I > first saw photos > of it, I thought it was caused by its being displayed on a > too large > mannequin and that the opening was forced wider, but > apparently further > inspection has shown that it actually is cut that way. > > Margo Anderson > > > ____________________________________________________________ > _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 16:04:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05026 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:04:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA15327; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:10:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA07229 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:09:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA07209 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:09:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from [208.202.189.160] (ppp-161.pm4-1.grin.net [208.202.189.161]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA18601 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:09:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:09:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199901261903.LAA03431@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@grin.net Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Marsha J. Hamilton wrote: >> >>Has anyone ever tried wiring the outer edge of the ruff to help it >>maintain the shape? Margo Anderson wrote: >I've tried it and didn't like it--every time I moved my head I bent the wire >out of shape. I've had better luck with heavy fishing line, handpicked, >zigzagged or serged to the edge. Of course, this is only a good idea if you >hide it in a fold or cover it with trim. > > For one of the large, flat standing collars, wire would be necessary. >I've only made them for dolls, not people, so movement wasn't a problem. To >make a full size one, you would need to use a very rigid wire, not a soft >one. Heavy millinery wire might work, and would have the advantage that >it's fabric covered and fairly unobtrusive. Sometimes to hold up a big ruff the Elizabethans in the later period wore a supportasse, a flat shape that fit under the ruff made with wires and often merely covered with paper, although occasionally covered with cloth. Usually they aren't round, they're deeper in the back and shallow in the front and tilt upward in the back and down in the front, framing the face, not the neck. These are discussed in costume books and sometimes shown in portraits. I've never made one since my personad doesn't wear a ruff. Has anyone tried one of these? Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 16:31:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05196 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:31:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA20351; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:39:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA12777 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:38:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA12719 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:38:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from picard.dnaco.net (aleed@picard.dnaco.net [207.238.206.4]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA14049 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:41:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by picard.dnaco.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA18344 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:39:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: picard.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:39:27 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Shinrone Gown In-Reply-To: <199901261845.KAA01383@zeus.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed Perhaps the opening across the front had hooks and eyes on either side, and was laced on over a kirtle. Lower-class garments of the 1570s in Flanders & England were worn like this at the time. Drea > > > >Native Irish did not corset themselves. No stomachers have > >been found to my knowledge nor are any shown in the period > >woodcuts or watercolors I've seen. > > I agree that it seems unlikely that Irish women wore any form of corset. > The reference to a stomacher for maternity wear that I was thinking of, > though, speaks of it as a garment worn for warmth, while riding. Perhaps > "stomacher" in this context means some sort of waistcoat or other warm > garment. At any rate, it's English, not Irish, so I'm grasping at straws > here. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 17:05:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05458 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:05:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA25932; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:12:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA18600 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:11:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA18573 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:11:44 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 7ZYBa03482 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:07:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <497689b6.36ae3c94@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:07:16 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: textile and costume museums Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Renata and Penny, The Museum of City of New York has two costume collections -- historical fashions and theatrical costumes. They are being featured in Calendar 2000 and they have fabulous things. Currently, they have a virtual exhibit at www.mcny.org and should be on your virtual tour list. Glad you liked my suggestion and acted so quickly on it. Cheers, Sally Costume Calendar Series http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 17:49:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05740 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:49:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA02396; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:57:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA26353 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:56:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA26339 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:56:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from [194.222.199.37] (helo=montgomerie.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 105HPf-0001aj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:56:52 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:49:45 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: H-COST: Lasting cloth MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jean Waddie Dear list Can anyone help my reference-librarian sister with this enquiry, which is completely out of my range? Please reply to me and I will collate replies to pass on - I'm not sure what her work would think of a sudden flood of mail from the US! Thanks in advance, Jean We have had an enquiry to find out about "lasting cloth" which was apparently used for military uniforms, gunpowder magazines and even boots during the 19th century. It's for a member of staff and there is "no hurry", but we have run out of sources. Do you know of any good books on textiles/costume(or any web sites) which might tell us how it was made or anything else? All suggestions gratefully received. -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 19:17:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA06282 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:17:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA15180; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:24:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA10361 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:23:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from bratshb.uwc.edu (root@bratshb.uwc.edu [143.235.46.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA10352 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:23:39 -0700 (MST) From: pnomail@bratshb.uwc.edu Received: from Excelsior.bratshb.uwc.edu (ppp18shb.uwc.edu [143.235.46.18]) by bratshb.uwc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA01077 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:23:31 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990126174350.00800de0@bratshb.uwc.edu> X-Sender: pnomail@bratshb.uwc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:43:50 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: cloth-of-gold: fakin' it In-Reply-To: <36AE2163.480E@mc.net> References: <199901260032.RAA10886@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pnomail@bratshb.uwc.edu JoAnns has some 50% silk-50% metal fabric on their custom cut rack in home decorating. It's similar to the sheer samples I have from Thai silks. Since I have never actually seen cloth of gold, I don't know if it's a good substitute. It's considered a sheer, so when home dec sheers go on sale this does also. It comes in 4 colors, if memory serves and is pretty reasonably priced (if you find it at 50% off). Minimum purchase is (I think) 1/2 yard, might be as high as 1 yard. I don't think I'd fuse it. Tailor's tacks or something similar would be a better choice. It would stay more liquid. DJ >Thai (Exotic) Silks and a few other silk places have the silk/metallic >"tissui" for around $8-$12 a yard. This stuff is sheer, but would take >to fusing with a backing (woven fusible interfacing would be my choice). > >Since most of the companies have a 10-17-yard minimum, I'd buy either >the white/silver or white/gold, then dye pieces of it to the colors you >want. (Jacquard is especially formulated for silk, Dylon and Procion >should also work.) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 21:24:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06934 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:23:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA29048; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:31:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA27009 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:30:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA27003 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:30:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.31.94 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:30:06 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Netting in the round? Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:12:38 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be499d$98b5d8a0$5e1fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990126060233.007b4100@onramp.i2k.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Thanks so much for the reference to the netting WebPages. They are fantastic! The 1838 Workwoman's Guide, reprinted in facsimile by RL. Shep has a number of patterns for netting, including the standard string bag, a lacy window curtain (which looked super-easy, and sounded just beautiful in place), a hairnet, and several fishnet doilies. It's available from many sources, including Amazon Drygoods, Fred Struthers Books (www.fsbks.com). I loved the range of beuatiful projects in this book. My only complaint, and it was a small one, given the quality of the book, was that there was not a picture of each item with the instructions, so the crafter requires a bit of blind faith. The Civil War or Dickens renactor however, can be sure to get a perfectly period result. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Lynn Carpenter Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 6:03 AM To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Netting in the round? -Poster: Lynn Carpenter "Susan Carroll-Clark" wrote: >I'm glad folks like my hairnet site.....I can attest that once you get the >hang of making them, they're *really* easy and you can get them incredibly >fine-scale (I used the smallest size metal netting needle from Lacis for the >purple one I've got the pictures of--that was my third complete net.) > >If folks have any questions, feel free to ask! (And yes, I'm working on how >to make them in the round.....) > >Susan Carroll-Clark >www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5145/hairnet.html >(Mistress Nicolaa de Bracton) When you say, netting in the round, do you mean making a circular net? I make and use these for bags quite a lot. The instructions I used were in Charles Holdgate's "Net Making," Emerson Books Inc., copyright 1972, "standard book number" 87523-180-2. To make a flat circle, I mesh 6-12-18 (etc., multiples of 6). To make a bag, after I get to the number of meshes I want, I just stop increasing, so it becomes tubular. And I can't make any post about netting without mentioning this beautiful and inspirational site, which also has instructions for circular netting: http://www.the-spa.com/bartholomew/netting/ Lynn Who *still* hasn't found size 18-22 cotton cable cord to make the hammock that inspired her to learn to net two summers ago! ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 21:24:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06941 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:24:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA29227; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:31:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA27078 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:31:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA27069 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:31:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.31.94 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:30:25 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Shinrone Gown, Lacing, Nakedness, and Green Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:33:38 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be499d$9effa600$5e1fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Well, I personally think "naked" meant naked. If they wanted to indicate the person was in a chemise, they would have referred to them being "in their linen," or "in their leine, shirt, smock" or somesuch. I am personally guessing that some Victorian who just couldn't believe it, credited the naked reference with another meaning than the obvious. But that's my 2 cents, having spent a few days recently reading some of those period accounts and peering at the woodcuts and things. Mairead Dunlevy confirms it in Dress in Ireland, when she writes, quoting Spencer's comments of 1583, for instance: "Considering such destitution it is not surprising that many, 'as well women as men, go commonly all naked saving only a loose mantle hanging about them; if any of them have a shirt or a pair of single-soled shoes, which they call brogs, they are especially provided for.' There is sufficient corroborative evidence that such nakedness, covered with a mantle, was the unselfconscious style of dress of the impoverished: a people innocent of thoughts of immodesty. This was indeed the case when Francisco de Cuillar, who was shipwrecked from the Spanish Armada, was stripped by thieves, nobody in his retreat at the Castle of Rossclogher was abashed, nor was he uncomfortable at being clothed daily in little more than a 'bad old blanket full of vermin'." As far as alternative women's garments, they'd fall into the smock, tunic, gown, jacket, and robe categories. Add to that the cloak, mantle, stole, and shawl. Naomi Tarrant's The Development of Costume has a picture of an Anglian woman of the 6th Century with a linen undergarment and a woolen peplos type garment, like a loose jumper or pinafore fastened with brooches at the shoulders, and belted with a tablet-woven belt at the waist. Aprons back and front, anything worn by a Viking or Dane is likely to have also been worn in Ireland, she postulates. Then there's the Knocktopher gown, late 1400's, referenced in Dunlevy. The Moy gown found in Co. Claire is partially photograhed in Dunlevey's book, p. 39., similar or slightly later period. Regarding the Shinrone gown's "circular" cutout under the bosom, consider this: If the gown were removed from that mannequin and laced up the front so that the two vertical edges were parallel like the period prints, that "circle" would close up, and a more shapely waist would be defined. Actually, it's really not a circle, but an opening with two straight vertical sides, and a lower edge that cants ever so slightly to a very shallow V-shape right above the skirt seam. The Shinrone gown dates from the late 16th, early 17th century, and period writer and observer Luke Gernon describes in some detail how the middle class dress was worn in 1620, quoted in Dunlevy's Dress in Ireland. It was a long-lived style, also pictured in Lucas de Heere's color plates of 1575 on the Reconstructing History WebPages. No mention of pregnancy. Another fun reference: Dublin, A Traveller's Companion, by the Pakenhams, 1988, >From Giraldus Cambrensis' Topographia Hibernica: "In this country the children are not, as elsewhere, delicately brought up; for everything over and above the homely and somewhat scanty nourishment they receive from their parents is left to nature. They are laid in no cradle, nor swathed in swaddling clothes; their tender limbs know not the use of a warm bath, neither are they adjusted with the help of art. Yet Nature, as if to show what her unaided power can do, fails not to rear and mould them through infancy and childhood, until in the fullness of time she leads each to man's estate conspicuous for a tall and handsome form, regular features, and a fresh complexion." Luke Gernon's "Discourses," on the state of Dublin in 1620, "The women of Ireland are comely creatures, tall, slender, and upright. Of complexion, very fayre and cleare-skinned (but freckled) with tresses of bright yellow hayre, which they chain up in curious knots and devises. They are not straight-laced or plated in their youth, but suffered to grow at liberty so that you shall hardly see one crooked or deformed . . . " William Curry in the early 1800's describing Dublin's "haves" and have-nots": "Here is a lass almost bouyant with satin and feathers; there is a trembling girl of eighteen, purple from cold,shrinking from shame, and drawing around her the poor rags which, with all her care, scarce cover her body;" And this about Parnell in approximately 1881, a little OT, but too good to leave out: "A lady worked for him, while he was in prison, a superb eider-down quilt, covered in green satin, with his monogram worked in gold bullion---a present worthy of a king. I am sure he must have sent a sweet and gracious acknowledgement, but the gorgeous quilt never rested on his bed. It was hidden away carefully underneath a press, where, I'm afraid, the mice soon tarnished its glory. Lady devotees sent him innumerable other marks of homage worked in the dangerous color --- embroidered smoking caps, tea-cozeys, and even bright green hosiery. The latter he insisted resolutely on destroying; the others he distributed freely among his brother-prisoners, until almost every man in the prison, except himself, had his green tasselled turban and green woolen vests. . ." Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Mara Riley Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 3:42 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Shinrone Gown -Poster: Mara Riley I'd be interested to hear more about the 'alternative garments' you're talking about, since, aside from those DeHeere drawings, I haven't seen any other evidence for Irish women's clothing. Also, it's pretty well accepted that when the English said the Irish went naked beneath their brats, it meant they were wearing a linen leine (which had a long history in Ireland as a primary outer garment) without any 'proper' woolen garments over it. The English would have seen this as the equivalent of running around in one's nightshirt -- i.e., running around naked. Regards, Mara On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, Hope H. Dunlap wrote: > > -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > Native Irish did not corset themselves. No stomachers have > been found to my knowledge nor are any shown in the period > woodcuts or watercolors I've seen. Period accounts I've > seen speak of the woman's chemise showing through the > lacings if she were poor, and the slightly better off > tucking the ends of a silk neckscarf under the lacings. They > had silk commonly as early as the 8th Century I > believe.There is so little evidence, that it's not possible > to say that there weren't stomachers, but there are a few > pieces of evidence suggesting "no stomacher" was > commonplace. While the shinrone gown might have been worn > by someone during maternity, it's really not an ideal > costume for it. The waist seam would be less comfortable > than something loose, and there were plenty of loose > alternative garments in that culture, usually belted when no > pregnancy, easy enough to remove the belt or place it higher > when pregnant. The standard belt for a millennia seems to > have reached to the hem of the garment, so the belt was > plenty long enough to tie in alternative ways. There are > some period watercolors on the Reconstructing History > WebPages which show the Shinrone gown, and it doesn't look > like any of the women wearing it are pregnant. I also think > there is evidence that large breasts are more common today > than they were in olden times , and I can only speculate as > to the reasons. But I've read that the Irish were strong and > healthy and scarcely ever overweight, in distinction from > their Anglo-Norman visitors and overlords. I just question > the whole premise that bust support was any kind of > universal necessity, especially for a people who were > frequently without clothes entirely during the Anglo-Norman > period, except if they were lucky, with an Irish "cape." > > Hope H. Dunlap > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com > [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Margo Anderson > Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 5:33 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Shinrone Gown > > > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > A > >I'm no expert on 16th century women's fashions, but isn't > it likely that > >there's just part of the garment, say some sort of > removeable "stomacher" > >panel that's missing? > > Yes, I think it probably was worn with a stomacher, > especially if it's a > maternity garment, as laces or ties across a pregnancy bulge > could be > uncomfortable with just a chemise. We know 16th century > women wore > stomachers in pregnancy, I believe there's a quote in > Ashelford, which of > course I just took back to the library. > > It's the odd shape of the opening, which is wider over the > belly than at the > top, which makes me think it's a maternity dress. When I > first saw photos > of it, I thought it was caused by its being displayed on a > too large > mannequin and that the opening was forced wider, but > apparently further > inspection has shown that it actually is cut that way. > > Margo Anderson > > > ____________________________________________________________ > _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 21:47:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA07078 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:47:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA01943; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:54:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA29697 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:54:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA29679 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:54:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.36 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:53:39 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Picot Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:56:58 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be49a0$e4cd3000$5e1fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199901261913.LAA04636@zeus.directcon.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Any blanket-style stitch will develop the picot edge stitch, spaced to suit, maybe 1/4 or 3/8" apart. Unlike the blanket stitch, though, the continuing thread is not along the outer edge of the garment, but on the other side (inside edge) of the rolled hem. The rolled silk hem fluffs out a bit between the stitches, giving a pretty shell-like scalloped edge to silk lingerie. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Margo Anderson Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 2:13 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Picot? -Poster: Margo Anderson I'm making a 1920's dress in silk chiffon, working from a contempory dressmaking instruction manual. The instructions for edging the draped skirt panels simply tell me to have the pieces "picoted". I understand that there used to be businesses that did this, but they are no more. Can anyone tell me what modern finish would be the closest aproximation to picoting? My serger manual gives instructions for a "picot hem" which seems to involve using the rolled hem setting, but with a long stitch. Would that be it? I also have a baby hemmer for my standard machine, but I'm not good with it, especially on corners, which this piece has. My client's budget does not extend to having me hand roll the hem. Margo Anderson ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 21:48:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA07085 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:48:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA01952; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:54:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA29698 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:54:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA29686 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:54:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.36 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:53:31 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Shinrone Gown Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:38:34 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be49a0$dfd31420$5e1fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Dunvlevy remarks on the similarity of the Shinrone Gown with the dress of the low countries of the time. Also mentions silver buttons both sides laced over, but I'm sure not everyone could afford them. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of aleed Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 4:39 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Shinrone Gown -Poster: aleed Perhaps the opening across the front had hooks and eyes on either side, and was laced on over a kirtle. Lower-class garments of the 1570s in Flanders & England were worn like this at the time. Drea > > > >Native Irish did not corset themselves. No stomachers have > >been found to my knowledge nor are any shown in the period > >woodcuts or watercolors I've seen. > > I agree that it seems unlikely that Irish women wore any form of corset. > The reference to a stomacher for maternity wear that I was thinking of, > though, speaks of it as a garment worn for warmth, while riding. Perhaps > "stomacher" in this context means some sort of waistcoat or other warm > garment. At any rate, it's English, not Irish, so I'm grasping at straws > here. > ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 22:00:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA07170 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:00:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA03658; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:08:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA01264 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:07:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA01247 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:07:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id NAA13470 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:37:38 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA23407; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:37:37 +1030 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:37:37 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Shinrone Gown In-Reply-To: <199901252232.OAA02044@zeus.directcon.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, Margo Anderson wrote: > > It's the odd shape of the opening, which is wider over the belly than at the > top, which makes me think it's a maternity dress. When I first saw photos > of it, I thought it was caused by its being displayed on a too large > mannequin and that the opening was forced wider, but apparently further > inspection has shown that it actually is cut that way. Hmmmm....I have seen another dress that looked like this. Not an extant dress, but a drawing of a woman lacing up a kirtle or cote-hardie with a front opening that widens out at the bottom (almost the shape of a spoon busk). I've seen it as redrawings in a couple of books I think, but can't remember what the original was in (or indeed, if there even is an original). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 23:19:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA07635 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:18:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA12768; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:26:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA09864 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:26:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from atlrel2.hp.com (atlrel2.hp.com [156.153.255.202]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA09851 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:25:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from xboibrg4.boi.hp.com (xboibrg4.boi.hp.com [15.56.8.165]) by atlrel2.hp.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id XAA08859 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:25:56 -0500 (EST) Received: by xboibrg4.boi.hp.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:25:56 -0700 Message-ID: From: "VANVRANKEN,RUTHANN (HP-Roseville,ex1)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: RE:Byzantine Frescoes (was henk question -- sleeves) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:25:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "VANVRANKEN,RUTHANN (HP-Roseville,ex1)" Hello, Many apologies for the extended delay getting this posted (life is a four letter word...) *Byzantine Frescoes and Icons in Yugoslavia* Text by: Oto Bihalji-Merin, Publisher: Harry N. Abrams, Inc., New York No ISBN listed, Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 60-9705 Copyright 1958 in Germany by Hanns Reich Verlag, Munich The short-sleeved women are on pages 28, 36, and 58. If anyone needs any further data about the images (i.e. if you weren't able to locate the book, etc). Please email me directly at jarlrolf@table.jps.net, especially as I have to temporarily unsubscribe from H-Costume . (P.S. I'll do my best to reply faster...) - Rhodry > -----Original Message----- > From: Jessica Wilbur [SMTP:jessica@pop.net] > Sent: Friday, December 18, 1998 12:29 > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: RE: H-COST: henk question -- sleeves > > -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" > > > -Poster: "VANVRANKEN,RUTHANN (HP-Roseville,ex1)" > > > > > Is the original poster wanting to limit the short sleeves specifically > to > > undergowns? > > > > I have found short sleeved gowns on women in Byzantine Fresco in > Yugoslovia. > > I can post the editor/publisher/isbn info if you would like it. There > are > > naturally, earlier than 15C. > > > > - Rhodry > > Hi Rhodry, > > I would love to see the info for your reference. Sounds really > interesting! Please post it! > > Thanks! > --Jessica > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Jan 26 23:35:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA07816 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:35:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA14980; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:42:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA11229 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:42:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA11222 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:41:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip56.an1-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.12.56]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00540 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:42:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36AE8BC5.2CE4B954@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:45:11 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: History of Menswear References: <199901261854.KAA02602@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Margo Anderson wrote: > > > I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I understood that the > changeover to more somber clothes for men in England occurred after Prince > Albert's death, when the entire nation went into mourning. Of course, > social factors have much to do with it, but it was probably a factor. > > Sorry again, but, although mourning for Prince Albert may have helped to keep men's clothes on a somber track, the change to less colorful clothing for men is definitely an eighteenth-century phenomenon. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 00:16:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA08685 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:16:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA20138; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:23:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA15527 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:23:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA15518 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:23:33 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id DKBFa20088 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:22:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5378e56e.36aea29c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:22:36 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Shinrone Gown Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I too wondered about the gap in the front of the Shinrone gown. I recently saw the dress in Dublin and it is definitely displayed strangely. However, if anyone has "Dress in Ireland", look at color plate #2. If you pull the pieces of the Shinrone gown together, it will fit like the woman's dress in Plate #2. I made a similar dress in wool with welted seams, like the dress in Plate #2 and when it is opened and spread out, it looks like the displayed Shinrone gown. Hope this helps. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 00:27:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA08750 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:27:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA20953; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:33:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA16375 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:33:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA16368 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:33:45 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 8MUTa04297 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:33:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <401cbbf1.36aea51c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:33:16 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Circle Houppelande (picture update) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com It looks terrific. Can we see a photo of you in the houppelande? Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 00:57:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA08926 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:57:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA24229; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:03:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA19137 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:03:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from eterna.binary.net (eterna.binary.net [12.13.120.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA19126 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup.binary.net (lnk1-ppp-29.binary.net [207.140.121.29]) by eterna.binary.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA27984 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:03:05 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990127000035.00701f44@binary.net> X-Sender: costumrs@binary.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:00:35 -0600 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: picot edge In-Reply-To: <199901270230.TAA27019@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger >- -Poster: Margo Anderson > >I'm making a 1920's dress in silk chiffon, working from a contempory >dressmaking instruction manual. The instructions for edging the draped >skirt panels simply tell me to have the pieces "picoted". I understand that >there used to be businesses that did this, but they are no more. > >Can anyone tell me what modern finish would be the closest aproximation to >picoting? My serger manual gives instructions for a "picot hem" which seems >to involve using the rolled hem setting, but with a long stitch. Would that >be it? I also have a baby hemmer for my standard machine, but I'm not good >with it, especially on corners, which this piece has. My client's budget >does not extend to having me hand roll the hem. > >Margo Anderson > Margo, I don't know what a "picoted" edge is, but having made a skirt out of silk chiffon (10 full fabric widths in the skirt, making it about 450" around the hem), this is what worked for me. After much trial and error (and chewed up silk), I used monofilament thread in both the needle and bobbin, and did a basic zigzag. I think I used about a 2-3 mm stitch width, and about a 1.5 mm stitch length. I made a very small fold on the edge (about 1/4 in.) and sewed it with the zigzag going just over the edge of the fold. It rolled up just like a rolled hem, without fussing with the serger or a special foot. In fact, my serger ate the fabric, rather than sewed it. I used the superfine monofilament "Wonder thread" (I think made by YLI). I think JoAnns carries it, or you can get it from Clothilde. It's much nicer than the basic monofilament (Coat's, or whatever). I also used the same method to seam the pieces together, making a very unobtrusive seam. Hope this helps. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 01:28:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA09337 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 01:28:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA27498; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:35:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA21761 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:35:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA21751 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:35:41 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id BAKDa05501 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 01:35:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 01:35:05 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: cloth-of-gold: fakin' it Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I actually HAVE seen cloth of gold at the Suleyman the Magnificent exhibition (National Gallery of Art). It is wonderful and practically glows in the dark. I think the method of manufacture involves wrapping fine gold (or silver or copper) wire with colored silk and then weaving it. You get subtle differences in color depending on the type of wire used. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 07:16:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA16783 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:16:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA15135; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 05:23:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA07709 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 05:24:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (mg134-121.ricochet.net [204.179.134.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA07702 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 05:23:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from ricochet.net (athene.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.14]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA27393 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:27:05 -0800 Message-ID: <36AF065F.F4E8F06E@ricochet.net> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:28:38 -0800 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Circle Houppelande (picture update) References: <401cbbf1.36aea51c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue > It looks terrific. Can we see a photo of you in the houppelande? Thanks! But the answer is "not until the end of Feb at the earliest." I'm moving to Philadelphia and we're in the middle of fevered sorting-out. cv =-=-=-=-= "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 09:01:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA17489 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:01:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA24657; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:08:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA14741 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:08:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA14733 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:08:18 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id EJAFa04798 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:07:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:07:38 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: non-underwire bras Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Okay, men, you can stop reading now. A couple of people have written in looking for bras with support but without underwires. The new Vermont Country Store catalogue (mentioned here before) has a whole page of cotton bras without underwires. They all come in large sizes. They all claim great support. There are several styles, including one call "Exquisite Form," which is apparently an old customer favorite -- it looks quite pointy from the illustration. The rest look more modern. Prices range from $14.95 to $32.95. I have never ordered anything from them and I have no idea what their service is like. You can call them at 802-362-8440. I don't know what the deal is with underwires. When I was nursing I had some great Playtex bras with an "underwire alternative." When I stopped nursing I tried to find cotton, non-underwire, supportive bras in the department stores with no success. When I talked to salesladies about it, they thought I was nuts. Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 11:41:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA18682 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:41:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA15393; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:48:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA12062 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:48:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA12052 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:48:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.31.109 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:48:01 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Hawaiian material Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:51:20 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be4a15$72ac0f80$cb17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <88d5e8e7.36ab9f2e@aol.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Many of the "Hawaiian" prints are actually batiks from Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, and China. There are companies in both countries which sell them mail-order. The Thai Queen is an artist with a strong textile bent, and she designed a line of wonderful, sophisticated batik prints in black and white, which I've seen for sale on the Web. I don't have the URL's, but start with http://www.MetaCrawler.com, the consortium of search engines, and ask about "Batik," Thai textiles, Thai Silk, and you'll find some nice stuff. I bought a nice batik rayon in Apple Annie's in Swansea, MA, recently, but hated paying $16/yard for it. The exchange rate favors buying overseas now, and you'd have a much wider range of choices at more modest prices. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of M311@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 24, 1999 5:31 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Hawaiian material -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 1/21/99 1:59:13 AM Central Standard Time, haggis@sirius.com writes: << "Hawaiian shirts" >> This reminds me of when I was in 8th grade. Even though I was already sewing at home I took sewing in school. You, know easy A and all plus being something I liked. One of the things I made was a nice pull over shirt but out of a nice Hawaiian print. It was just lovely. Never seen anything like it since. Found another I liked a few years later, a nice purple background with orange flowers and tan leaves. I used the neatest orange buttons. I just loved it, made it into a one piece shorts jumper. I live in the Midwest where this type of prints aren't readily available, so which brings me to this question: Does anyone know of a mail order source for Hawaiian print material? Kelly Albrecht m311@aol.com _________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 13:07:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19180 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:07:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA29883; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA03527 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:14:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA03493 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.203 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:19:55 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: non-underwire bras Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:14:44 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be4a11$844582c0$cb17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" In mhy area anyway, cotton bras are becoming a normal department store item. I used to mail order them from a small home-based business in Virginia, which carried the nursing and regular varieties, in a fabulous range of sizes. Sorry I can no longer find her address and phone---but Warner's makes a couple of versions of their "Friday bra" in all-cotton knit goods, very comfortable, and my personal standby for every day of the week. I buy with a little ease, because they do shrink a bit going through the hot dryer. They need to fit initially hooked on the inside-most set of hooks, and with less support than you'd ideally want in the cup. After shrinkage, the cup will offer the correct support, and you'll wear it hooked on the middle or outer set of hooks. By mail order, besides The Vermont County Store (which is super-reliable and fair-priced), Garnet Hill in Vermont or New Hampshire (I forget) is also a good source, particularly of the more expensive and decorative European cotton bras. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Gaelscot@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 9:08 AM To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: non-underwire bras -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Okay, men, you can stop reading now. A couple of people have written in looking for bras with support but without underwires. The new Vermont Country Store catalogue (mentioned here before) has a whole page of cotton bras without underwires. They all come in large sizes. They all claim great support. There are several styles, including one call "Exquisite Form," which is apparently an old customer favorite -- it looks quite pointy from the illustration. The rest look more modern. Prices range from $14.95 to $32.95. I have never ordered anything from them and I have no idea what their service is like. You can call them at 802-362-8440. I don't know what the deal is with underwires. When I was nursing I had some great Playtex bras with an "underwire alternative." When I stopped nursing I tried to find cotton, non-underwire, supportive bras in the department stores with no success. When I talked to salesladies about it, they thought I was nuts. Gail Finke ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 13:08:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19188 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:08:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA00106; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:14:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA03805 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:14:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA03761 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:14:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust186.tnt2.sfo3.da.uu.net [153.37.7.186]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA13962 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:14:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36AF585A.F9D00F1D@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:18:03 -0800 From: Christina Conklin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Sources for the REAL cloth of gold? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christina Conklin Not that I'm in the market for $1200/yd cloth, but I would be very interested to know if such a thing is still being made, if anyone has a lead on sources. . . . Also, yesterday I was replying to a message in an h-digest and I inadvertantly hit 'send' before deleting a large hunk of the digest. Apologies for garbaging up the list. I was just trying to say that I, too, am interested in joining a historic textiles newsgroup, mentioned several times of late. Christy Conklin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 15:14:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA20029 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:14:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA18907; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:20:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA08106 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:20:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA07964 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p25.directcon.net [206.170.184.74]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA06201 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:14:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:14:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901272014.MAA06201@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Picot Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 09:56 PM 1/26/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >Any blanket-style stitch will develop the picot edge stitch, >spaced to suit, maybe 1/4 or 3/8" apart. Unlike the blanket >stitch, though, the continuing thread is not along the outer >edge of the garment, but on the other side (inside edge) of >the rolled hem. The rolled silk hem fluffs out a bit between >the stitches, giving a pretty shell-like scalloped edge to >silk lingerie. So this is what some sewing machine manuals call a shell hem? Cool, my machine does that. thanks! Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 16:03:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA20423 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:02:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA27577; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:08:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA19605 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:08:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA19539 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:08:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.238] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 105cBv-0006Hv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:08:03 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990126105726.00c08100@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990126105726.00c08100@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:22:03 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: History of menswear In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows The change toward boring men's clothing began to happen at the Revolution, but men still got to wear cool stuff till about the 1830's (except for waistcoats, of which there are cool examples throughout the dull times). I personally think the Industrial Revolution made the moneyed middle class so important that after a while most men were dressing like them, that is unimaginatively. With men thinking women were butterflies needing bright colours and novelty in garments, while thinking men were above all this, factory production in clothing would help standardize and narrow men's choices in garments. It wasn't till the late 1950's that men really started wearing colours again (except for Hawaiian shirts and the occasional cool neckties). The Zoot suits in the 1940's were the first really radical change in cut in many decades. The English designers like Mary Quant in the early 60's put colour and pattern back on men, along with differently cut suits. Then all sartorial-**** broke loose, leading to the Hippies and the Unisex clothing experiments of the late 60's-early 70's. >Didn't the change occur around the Regency period? Something about people >dressing in less finery after the French Revolution and all that... Plus >the more somber Victorian era kinda nailed that trend down. > >> A friend who had just seen the movie "Elizabeth" just inquired about mens >> clothing from the period. He wanted to know if the male species was >> really that colorful and I told him, yes, it wasn't until the 19th century >> that mens clothing became somber, much as it is today. When he >> asked why, I really couldnt think of an answer. It's been too long since >> I studied costume history and I'm sure there are a number of factors that >> go into the gradual changes that took place from the 1700s to the 1800s. >> It seemed like a good question to pose to this group. I'm sure there must >> be a few of you historians out there who can provide some input. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 16:03:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA20430 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:03:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA27573; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:08:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA19602 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:08:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA19540 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:08:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.238] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 105cBx-0006Hv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:08:05 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990126112353.00c12b20@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990126112353.00c12b20@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:25:08 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: Neck Ruffs In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990124232116.00a72330@mail.interlog.com> References: <199901242205.OAA25010@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I just have to reiterate that YOU make them that way and they work for you. > There are EXISTING, SURVIVING RUFFS which are essentially cartridge >pleated and sewn to the neck band along the top edge. So saying your way >is the only way they were done is as silly as my saying my way was the only >way they were done. If you look at portraits you will also notice for just >about everything there was more than one style. :) > >Just trying to keep this friendly, >Danielle > >P.S. I've done it "my way" and it works too. Please cite pictures in commonly available costume books so I can see these too. I haven't seen them, or don't remember having seen them. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 16:03:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA20434 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:03:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA27561; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:08:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA19600 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:08:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA19543 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:08:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.238] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 105cBy-0006Hv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:08:07 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990126112937.00c0b920@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990126112937.00c0b920@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:34:54 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Regency events in Boston??? In-Reply-To: <477A4B83CCF@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows These days Science Fiction conventions often have Regency dance events one or two nights. This has to be from the crossover between fen and Georgette Heyer fen. I know Boston has SF cons, so she could check on a con's website for Regency dancing. Bookstores which specialize in SF books will know dates for local cons, maybe websites too. A one day membership ought to get her in, or maybe they have a one-night/party-only membership. >Can anyone in the Boston (USA) area help? > >I have a friend in Boston who is busily making herself some outfits >using the wonderful La Mode Bagatelle Regency patterns. The problem >is, she doesn't know of any events in her area where she could wear >them. > >It's a real shame. When I spoke to her yesterday, the silk she >ordered fro the evening dress hadn't been delivered so she had >started cutting out a cotton day dress for something to do in the >meantime... > >Anyone know of any events in the area I could send her details of? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 17:34:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21532 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:34:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA13885; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:37:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA11816 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:37:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA11775 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:37:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from lindo (port33.annex3.radix.net [209.48.226.161]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA27750 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:36:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.0.1.19990126205340.00fc5670@pop.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@pop.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:57:15 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: H-COST: Possible misrepresentation (was Anatomie of Abuses?) In-Reply-To: <990126133220.15505a@centum.utulsa.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kevin + Mara Riley At 01:32 PM 01/26/1999 -0600, you wrote: > >-Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" > > >>With the caveat that a preacher inveighing against excesses is inclined to >>exaggerate. It's not entirely safe to take anything from Stubbe's literally >>without a back up source. > >Not simply exaggeration, but often when someone is attempting to ridicule >someone else, they take an extreme detail and emphasize that to the exclusion >of everything else to that the extreme assumes an important all out of >proportion to the reality (e.g., the medieval pointed shoe that was so long >it had to be chained to the knee is either an exaggeration or a >misrepresentation of an extreme example). > >Personally, with the discussion of the Shinrone Gown and some of my other >research lately, I'm forced to wonder if that isn't some of the reason for >the appearance of some of the 16th century drawings of Irish garments. I >mean, the grave sculptures are probably fairly accurate, but some of the >drawings are almost caricaturish in their extremes. Now, since the English >(and possibly pro-English Irish) were doing the drawings, and they were trying >to do things like outlaw Irish-specific things, like clothing styles, it >stands to reason (at least to me) that making those look laughable would >help that. Conversely, the English (sorry Mel) often looked down on the >Irish in general (not to mention many of their other neighbors), and >presenting them as looking foolish in general wouldn't be too hard for me to >believe. > >Of course, this is just speculation. > >Marc Carlson >lib_imc@centum.utulsa.edu Yes, but the Shinrone gown isn't that different from the DeHeere drawings. Also, the DeHeere drawings don't show many of the other signs of being caricatures -- distorted limbs, etc. -- and they also match other contemporary depictions of what the Irish (men, at least) were wearing, such as the Durer engraving and a few other illustrations. So I see no reason to think he was being inaccurate, particularly as the women he was portraying were supposed to be townswomen, not from the country, and therefore were probably Anglo-Irish. Wasn't DeHeere Dutch? Cheers, Mara Kevin + Mara Riley Home Page http://www.radix.net/~lindo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 17:55:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21662 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:55:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA17975; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:01:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA16854 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:02:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from aus.compassnet.com.au ([203.26.180.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id QAA16821 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:01:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from wayne-s-pc by aus.compassnet.com.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA13965; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:57:29 +1100 Message-ID: <02f601be4a49$9cd008a0$1cb51acb@wayne-s-pc> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Sources for the REAL cloth of gold? Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:05:50 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Glenda Robinson" Christy Conklin wrote: > I was just trying to say that I, too, am interested in joining a historic textiles newsgroup, mentioned several times of late. As am I! And I've got another couple of reenactor friends here in Australia who would be interested. Maybe someone should start one (I would, but I'm only on the net an hour a day at the most). Glenda. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 18:26:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA21892 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:26:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA23124; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:33:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA22444 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:33:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA22413 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:33:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from clough (207-172-38-96.s96.tnt8.ann.erols.com [207.172.38.96]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA02156 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:39:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:39:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901272339.SAA02156@smtp2.erols.com> X-Sender: clough@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda and Larry Clough Subject: Re: H-COST: Regency events in Boston??? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough At 11:34 AM 1/26/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >These days Science Fiction conventions often have Regency dance events one >or two nights. This has to be from the crossover between fen and Georgette >Heyer fen. I know Boston has SF cons, so she could check on a con's >website for Regency dancing. Bookstores which specialize in SF books will >know dates for local cons, maybe websites too. A one day membership ought >to get her in, or maybe they have a one-night/party-only membership. > >>Can anyone in the Boston (USA) area help? The next major SF convention in the Boston area is Boskone, over the Washington's Birthday weekend. They nearly always do have a Regency dance of some sort. They have a web page, and there's a link from my web page. Brenda Brenda W. Clough, author of HOW LIKE A GOD from Tor Books. http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 20:09:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA22625 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:09:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA09662; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:15:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA08741 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA08719 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:15:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from stassja.bellatlantic.net (client-151-198-139-88.bellatlantic.net [151.198.139.88]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA29559 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:15:38 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990127201703.00760bdc@postoffice3.bellatlantic.net> X-Sender: stassja@postoffice3.bellatlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:17:10 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: "Mariea M. Goodinson-Dillenkofer" Subject: H-COST: 1950's costuming Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Mariea M. Goodinson-Dillenkofer" Hi all! I just wondered if anyone knows of any good patterns available for a 1950's type dress, the kind usually referred to as a "prom dress" - strapless fitted bodice with a very full skirt gathered at the waist and usually with a wide sash that makes a bow in back. I know this sounds simple to put together from scratch but I wondered if there's a pattern out there to make the work simpler (also, I'm not sure what fabrics would get used other than taffeta, net and organdy for this type of party dress). Thanks for any leads! Rie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 21:00:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA22915 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:00:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA14962; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:07:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA14815 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:07:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from echo.flash.net (echo.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA14805 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:07:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p124.amax58.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.156.124]) by echo.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA14414 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:07:11 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36AFC5F9.1EA5B98B@flash.net> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:05:46 -0600 From: Kim Graham X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Clogs in England & History References: <199901231140_MC2-67B9-F049@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kim Graham Melanie Wilson wrote: > -Poster: Melanie Wilson > > I'm sending some addresses of US list members for the catalogue anyone else > who'd like adding, speak now or forever hold your peace ! > Me, too! Me, too! she cried, tripping over 3 pair of modern clogs as she ran... I LOVE my clogs. Thanks for adding me! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 21:01:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA22922 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:00:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA15042; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:07:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA14879 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:08:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from echo.flash.net (echo.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA14855 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:08:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p124.amax58.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.156.124]) by echo.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA14696 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:07:33 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36AFC60D.92970D86@flash.net> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:06:06 -0600 From: Kim Graham X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Clogs in England & History References: <199901231140_MC2-67B9-F049@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kim Graham Melanie Wilson wrote: > -Poster: Melanie Wilson > > I'm sending some addresses of US list members for the catalogue anyone else > who'd like adding, speak now or forever hold your peace ! > Me, too! Me, too! she cried, tripping over 3 pair of modern Swedish clogs as she ran... I LOVE my clogs. Thanks for adding me! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 21:01:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA22936 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:01:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA15154; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:08:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA14975 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:08:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA14970 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:08:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209-20-2-96.dialin.interlog.com (209-20-2-96.dialin.interlog.com [209.20.2.96]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA19473 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:08:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901280208.VAA19473@smtp.interlog.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Christine Robb" Organization: Stepping Stately To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:12:00 +0600 Subject: H-COST: 1893 fashion prediction Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Christine Robb" A peculiar little site, probably better looked at on April 1: http://www.ffutures.demon.co.uk/fashion/fut_fash.htm Christine cedar@interlog.com For information on English Country and vintage dance in Toronto: http://www.interlog.com/~cedar _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 21:29:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA23108 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:29:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA19435; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:35:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA18346 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:36:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA18334 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:36:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA09242 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:27:54 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:27:51 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: History of menswear In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990126105726.00c08100@pop.slip.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > It wasn't till the late 1950's that men really started wearing colours > again (except for Hawaiian shirts and the occasional cool neckties). The > Zoot suits in the 1940's were the first really radical change in cut in > many decades. The English designers like Mary Quant in the early 60's put > colour and pattern back on men, along with differently cut suits. Then all > sartorial-**** broke loose, leading to the Hippies and the Unisex clothing > experiments of the late 60's-early 70's. Yea, but that didn't last long. Sylvia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 22:01:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA23290 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:01:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA22506; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:07:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA21847 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:08:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from bratshb.uwc.edu (root@bratshb.uwc.edu [143.235.46.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA21840 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:08:06 -0700 (MST) From: pnomail@bratshb.uwc.edu Received: from Excelsior.bratshb.uwc.edu (ppp21shb.uwc.edu [143.235.46.21]) by bratshb.uwc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA02865 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:07:58 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990127211015.007a6c10@bratshb.uwc.edu> X-Sender: pnomail@bratshb.uwc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:10:15 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1950's costuming In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19990127201703.00760bdc@postoffice3.bellatlantic.ne t> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pnomail@bratshb.uwc.edu Vogue (Vintage) has released an old pattern for a 50's long dress full skirt. Also look at Style and New Look, they usually have interesting things. DJ >Hi all! > > I just wondered if anyone knows of any good patterns available for a >1950's type dress, the kind usually referred to as a "prom dress" - >strapless fitted bodice with a very full skirt gathered at the waist and >usually with a wide sash that makes a bow in back. I know this sounds >simple to put together from scratch but I wondered if there's a pattern out >there to make the work simpler (also, I'm not sure what fabrics would get >used other than taffeta, net and organdy for this type of party dress). > > Thanks for any leads! > > Rie > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 23:21:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA23781 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:21:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA02059; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:27:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA00499 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:28:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA00491 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:28:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p39.directcon.net [206.170.184.88]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA08584 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:22:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:22:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901280422.UAA08584@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: pricing question Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson I have a question about pricing a costume. A friend of my parents wants me to make her a 1920's dress, suitable for a dinner party, that she could also wear to other, non costume formal events. We found a design for a very pretty chiffon dress with long sleeves and draped panels on the skirt. To make this dress, in silk chiffon, I quoted her a price of $300. Although she was very nice about it, she was flabbergasted at the price, and said she's never spent this much on any piece of clothing. Now, I've been out of the loop for quite some time as far as formal clothing goes, but does this price really seem that high? Isn't this about what a dressy dress of decent quality, bought off the rack, costs these days? Or am I just too expensive? Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Jan 27 23:29:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA23825 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:29:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA02757; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:35:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA01505 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:36:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA01471 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:36:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-154.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.154]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA04016 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:36:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990127234501.00a53bd0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:45:01 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19990126161714.0069eec0@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Has anyone ever tried wiring the outer edge of the ruff to help it >maintain the shape? Some of the Elizabethan standing ruffs must have >been wired from the look of the portraits. Anyone have any info? I think they were just normal ruffs worn over a supportasse/ undrepropper, i.e. unwired. Remember some of the funky perspectives which were happening in some of the paintings. Also, once the lace is startched it is remarkably stiff. (It is also next to impossible to wash out completely afterwards.) I've seen some photos/pictures of some surviving ones (supportasses) and they range from functional to lovely. If I remember correctly, one of the flat lace "ruffs" was still tacked to one of the supportasses. Just my thoughts... Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 00:01:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA24019 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:01:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA06589; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:08:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA04865 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:08:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA04855 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:08:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.63] (sdts10-63.znet.net [207.167.66.63]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id VAA00374 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:08:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:08:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000201be49a0$dfd31420$5e1fffd0@default> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: RE: H-COST: Shinrone Gown Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >Dunvlevy remarks on the similarity of the Shinrone Gown with >the dress of the low countries of the time. The low countries gowns with the open fronts were normally either worn so they were laced over a stomacher/placket or an undergown. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 00:12:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA24591 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:12:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA07759; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:18:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA05819 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:19:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA05810; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:19:27 -0700 (MST) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DZ2BYMKY; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:19:24 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:41:03 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: 1950's costuming Message-ID: <19990127.230644.3726.8.seamstrix@juno.com> References: <3.0.32.19990127201703.00760bdc@postoffice3.bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-6 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com In Vogue Pattern's new Vintage Vogue line, they have a pattern for a 1950's era formal gown that seems to fit your description. I don't have the exact pattern number handy, but I'm sure a quick look through the pattern section of your local fabric store. Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 00:39:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA24811 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:39:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA09931; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:45:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA09069 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:46:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from centum.utulsa.edu (centum.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.199]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id WAA09046 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:46:14 -0700 (MST) Received: by centum.utulsa.edu for H-COSTUME@INDRA.COM; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:49:07 -0600 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:49:07 -0600 From: "I. Marc Carlson" To: H-COSTUME@indra.com Message-Id: <990127234907.10d6dc@centum.utulsa.edu> Subject: Re: H-COST: Possible misrepresentation (was Anatomie of Abuses?) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" > >Yes, but the Shinrone gown isn't that different from the DeHeere drawings. >Also, the DeHeere drawings don't show many of the other signs of being >caricatures -- distorted limbs, etc. -- and they also match other >contemporary depictions of what the Irish (men, at least) were wearing, >such as the Durer engraving and a few other illustrations. So I see no >reason to think he was being inaccurate, particularly as the women he was >portraying were supposed to be townswomen, not from the country, and >therefore were probably Anglo-Irish. >Wasn't DeHeere Dutch? I don't wish to seem argumentative, but having seen the DeHeere drawings, as well as the Durer and the Weckherlin, I'm not sure that there is that great a similarity between the Shinrone gown and the dresses represented there. For example, what evidence do we have that the Shinrone gown was, in fact, laced up the front? Even if it were, it appears that any lacing would have ended below the bust, something not demonstrated in the drawings. As for caricatures, certainly today many caricatures are so drawn. But there are many forms of stereotyping that do not demonstrate those distortions. Satire can sometimes be very subtle. For example, the sterotype of the "Noble Savage" is rarely shown to be a cariatural stereotype, but is one nonetheless. Another example, and one that is perhaps more in line with what I was suggesting, is that of the "hillbilly". As for the artists we see, true, none of the artwork we see were done by English artists, but then again, none of them were done by people who had actually been to Ireland (or so says McClintock). And yes, while they DO resemble each others, this could be attributable to using a similar source. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be used, but that there might be other agendas to the representations. Particularly since they do not readily resemble the few examples we have, or the funerary artwork. Marc lib_imc@centum.utulsa.edu _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 01:03:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25105 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:03:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA12531; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:10:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA11470 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA11455 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:10:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.146] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 105kfD-0003s7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:10:52 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990127130953.00c2b8b0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990127130953.00c2b8b0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:12:21 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Menswear - an another theory In-Reply-To: <36AD1A40.CFA132FC@vaxxine.com> References: <36ABFEF1.9E0A3164@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > although I doubt if anyone in this group will ever be driven to re-enact > an Edwardian scuttler, moll or old queen, A lot of people did just this, except for it's being mid-Victorian, for the Dickens' Faires which used to be in San Francisco. Chimney sweeps, denizens of a dockside 'dive', etc. It was great fun. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 01:03:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25106 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:03:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA12526; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:10:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA11472 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:11:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA11459 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:10:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.146] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 105kfF-0003s7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:10:54 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990127131532.00c0b100@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990127131532.00c0b100@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:22:24 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: Shinrone Gown In-Reply-To: <000201be48de$7c8fefe0$ab17ffd0@default> References: <199901252232.OAA02044@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I just question >the whole premise that bust support was any kind of >universal necessity, especially for a people who were >frequently without clothes entirely during the Anglo-Norman >period, except if they were lucky, with an Irish "cape." It's not support, in the modern sense, which is necessary. Any snugly laced bodice can do a sufficient job of holding one together without any portion of the anatomy being supported/repositioned higher than its normal gravity-induced position (if flopping is prevented, support is not necessary). If bodices are used for this purpose, said anatomy looks smaller than a modern bra makes it look. Bodices are the low-tech way of doing this. Corsets are a higher-tech way. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 01:04:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25115 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:04:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA12647; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:10:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA11552 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:11:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA11502 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:11:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.146] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 105kfQ-0003s7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:11:05 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990127134502.00c38840@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990127134502.00c38840@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:50:10 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Picot? In-Reply-To: <199901261913.LAA04636@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows So that's what that edge stitch is called. I had an original 20's dress which had ruffles with edges which looked like they had been zig-zagged, and I was going crazy figuring out how they got a zig-zag edge before the zig-zag stitch was common. If I were you I'd zig-zag your edges. It will look a lot like the edges on my original do. You might touch the edge with fray check first, altho they must have done without. Stitch right on the edge so it doesn't roll. (BTW, you can almost fake a rolled hem by zig-zagging the edge so it does roll.) >I'm making a 1920's dress in silk chiffon, working from a contempory >dressmaking instruction manual. The instructions for edging the draped >skirt panels simply tell me to have the pieces "picoted". I understand that >there used to be businesses that did this, but they are no more. > >Can anyone tell me what modern finish would be the closest aproximation to >picoting? My serger manual gives instructions for a "picot hem" which seems >to involve using the rolled hem setting, but with a long stitch. Would that >be it? I also have a baby hemmer for my standard machine, but I'm not good >with it, especially on corners, which this piece has. My client's budget >does not extend to having me hand roll the hem. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 01:05:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25130 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:05:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA12669; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:10:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA11553 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:11:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA11484 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:11:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.146] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 105kfN-0003s7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:11:01 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990127134113.00c19eb0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990127134113.00c19eb0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:41:49 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19990126161714.0069eec0@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >Has anyone ever tried wiring the outer edge of the ruff to help it >maintain the shape? Some of the Elizabethan standing ruffs must have >been wired from the look of the portraits. Anyone have any info? 'Tons' of starch will give the same look. Simpler too. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 01:05:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25135 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:05:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA12637; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:10:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA11489 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:11:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA11469 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.146] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 105kfI-0003s7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:10:57 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990127133406.00c18d90@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990127133406.00c18d90@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:35:01 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: Neck Ruffs In-Reply-To: <000301be48e1$060e6240$ab17ffd0@default> References: <199901252218.OAA00203@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Saw a painting today with a multitiered ruff, box-pleated >and then gathered as well. Couldn't see enough to confirm >a neck bank or not, but it spoke to the variety of ruffs out >there! Where can we see the picture? Is it in a commonly available costume or painting book or web site? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 01:05:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25136 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:05:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA12635; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:10:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA11490 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:11:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA11477 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.146] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 105kfK-0003s7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:10:59 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990127133636.00c2a2e0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990127133636.00c2a2e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:39:23 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Anatomie of Abuses? In-Reply-To: <5541e1a8.36ad75e5@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >> Stubbes hated the fashionable froo-fra of the day, and sounded off about >> it at length and in great detail. As a result, he's a great resource >> for people trying to recreate historical fashions. >> > >With the caveat that a preacher inveighing against excesses is inclined to >exaggerate. It's not entirely safe to take anything from Stubbe's literally >without a back up source. Yes, but what a great place to start! If he hates everything and gives names, then you have the road map for your research right there in one book. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 01:13:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25219 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:13:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA13689; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:19:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA11585 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:11:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA11518 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:11:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.146] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 105kfU-0003s7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:11:08 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990127135405.00c30e20@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990127135405.00c30e20@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:59:56 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: high waists for pregnancy In-Reply-To: <199901261845.KAA01383@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I think you re-invented the traditional way of making non-maternity clothes do maternity duty. BTW, look at illustration 136, p.126, in the 16th century volume of the A Visual History of Costume series. That lady's got to be pregnant, and no sign (c.1595) of a stomacher. And her waist is raised to right where it would have to be for the end of the third trimester. I wore my Ren Faire bodice and skirt quite comfortably during >pregnancy, by lacing across the waistband gap and covering it with an apron, >and leaving the bottom hooks of my bodice open. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 01:13:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25223 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:13:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA13745; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:19:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA11595 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:11:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA11529 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:11:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.146] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 105kfX-0003s7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:11:12 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990127140648.00c19100@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990127140648.00c19100@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:12:01 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Lasting cloth In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I get so much use out of my 1906 Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia on this list. They say: "2. A strong and durable woolen or worsted fabric: also called everlasting, and formerly durance. It is usually black, and is used for buttons and for the uppers of women's shoes. It is woven either with a double twill or with a satin-twill (then called Denmark satin). Draw-bays, prunella, and serge de berry are varieties of lasting." (italics omitted everywhere above) > We have had an enquiry to find out about "lasting cloth" >which was apparently used for military uniforms, gunpowder magazines and even >boots during the 19th century. It's for a member of staff and there is "no >hurry", but we have run out of sources. Do you know of any good books on >textiles/costume(or any web sites) which might tell us how it was made or >anything else? All suggestions gratefully received. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 01:13:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25227 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:13:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA13794; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:20:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA11574 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:11:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA11487 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:11:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.146] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 105kfO-0003s7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:11:03 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990127134301.00c0bf00@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990127134301.00c0bf00@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:44:25 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs In-Reply-To: <199901261903.LAA03431@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Whenever I tried wiring the edge of the ruff, the edge stayed in place just fine but the rest of the ruff sagged. That looked really dumb. I like someone's organdy suggestion better. >>Has anyone ever tried wiring the outer edge of the ruff to help it >>maintain the shape? > >I've tried it and didn't like it--every time I moved my head I bent the wire >out of shape. I've had better luck with heavy fishing line, handpicked, >zigzagged or serged to the edge. Of course, this is only a good idea if you >hide it in a fold or cover it with trim. > > For one of the large, flat standing collars, wire would be necessary. >I've only made them for dolls, not people, so movement wasn't a problem. To >make a full size one, you would need to use a very rigid wire, not a soft >one. Heavy millinery wire might work, and would have the advantage that >it's fabric covered and fairly unobtrusive. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 01:15:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25244 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:15:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA13849; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:20:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA11603 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:11:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA11535 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:11:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.146] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 105kfZ-0003s7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:11:14 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990127141247.00c32b30@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990127141247.00c32b30@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:14:56 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: cloth-of-gold: fakin' it In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990126174350.00800de0@bratshb.uwc.edu> References: <36AE2163.480E@mc.net> <199901260032.RAA10886@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Real cloth of gold is stiff and not sheer. It looks a little like heavy satin. I don't know how you'd fake that stiffness with a sheer, which seems to be the only 'inexpensive' substitute these days. >JoAnns has some 50% silk-50% metal fabric on their custom cut rack in home >decorating. >It's similar to the sheer samples I have from Thai silks. >Since I have never actually seen cloth of gold, I don't know if it's a good >substitute. >It's considered a sheer, so when home dec sheers go on sale this does also. > It comes in 4 >colors, if memory serves and is pretty reasonably priced (if you find it at >50% off). >Minimum purchase is (I think) 1/2 yard, might be as high as 1 yard. > >I don't think I'd fuse it. Tailor's tacks or something similar would be a >better choice. >It would stay more liquid. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 01:15:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25249 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:15:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA13923; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:20:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA11599 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:11:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA11544 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:11:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.146] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 105kfb-0003s7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:11:15 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990127141915.00c1a100@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990127141915.00c1a100@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:06:22 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: cloth-of-gold: fakin' it In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Kathleen - I'd like to compare notes about cloth of gold/silver with you. Apparently nobody else on the list has seen the stuff up close. Not sheer, and not especially drapey, right? And a gleam like nothing else. Almost like it was wet. BTW, the weaving is a simpler process than you think. It's silk threads one way and gold-plated/silver-plated wire the other way (like changeable taffeta is two colours of silk, one colour one way and the other colour the other way). The silk in cloth of silver/gold gives it it's non-metallic colour. The gold/silver gives it that incredible shine. >I actually HAVE seen cloth of gold at the Suleyman the Magnificent exhibition >(National Gallery of Art). It is wonderful and practically glows in the dark. >I think the method of manufacture involves wrapping fine gold (or silver or >copper) wire with colored silk and then weaving it. You get subtle differences >in color depending on the type of wire used. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 01:15:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25253 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:15:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA13975; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:20:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA11590 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:11:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA11522 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:11:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.146] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 105kfV-0003s7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:11:10 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990127140045.00c34d50@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990127140045.00c34d50@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:03:59 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs In-Reply-To: References: <199901261903.LAA03431@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I have. Don't make them of thin wire or they bend under load and don't work. They are inverted U-shaped things, and the front ends can fasten to the bodice in the vicinity of the armhole seams to keep them at the right angle. They work pretty well for holding the ruff where it needs to be, but they don't help it keep its shape. That's the job for the starch (fake with organdy/organza). >Sometimes to hold up a big ruff the Elizabethans in the later period wore a >supportasse, a flat shape that fit under the ruff made with wires and often >merely covered with paper, although occasionally covered with cloth. >Usually they aren't round, they're deeper in the back and shallow in the >front and tilt upward in the back and down in the front, framing the face, >not the neck. > >These are discussed in costume books and sometimes shown in portraits. I've >never made one since my personad doesn't wear a ruff. Has anyone tried one >of these? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 01:28:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25312 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:28:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA14939; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:35:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA13300 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:36:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA13293 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:36:09 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 5RMBa23173 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:35:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:35:29 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: pricing question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 1/27/99 20:28:22 Pacific Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << Now, I've been out of the loop for quite some time as far as formal clothing goes, but does this price really seem that high? Isn't this about what a dressy dress of decent quality, bought off the rack, costs these days? Or am I just too expensive? Margo Anderson >> Margo, you're absolutely within the ballpark. If you go into any major department store to look at the prom dresses, they run $300 - $500, and they are, as you might guess, not particularly well made. I think people just feel like "home" sewn means cheap, and that hasn't been the case (particulary given the cost of materials alone) since, say 1972... If they don't want to pay what it's worth, then it's not worth your time. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 01:51:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25425 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:51:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA16672; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:57:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA14781 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:58:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from m16.boston.juno.com (m16.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.192]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA14775 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:58:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m16.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DZ2HLLRW; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:57:41 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Clogs in England & History Message-ID: <19990127.224159.4783.0.cley@juno.com> References: <199901231140_MC2-67B9-F049@compuserve.com> <36AFC60D.92970D86@flash.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-38 From: cynthia j ley Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:57:41 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: cynthia j ley I'ld be interested too. :-) Cynthia Ley 4400 SE Naef Rd #C21 Milwaukie, OR 97267 USA Do I owe you any $ for this? Thanks! Arlys On Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:06:06 -0600 Kim Graham writes: > >-Poster: Kim Graham > > > >Melanie Wilson wrote: > >> -Poster: Melanie Wilson >> >> I'm sending some addresses of US list members for the catalogue >anyone else >> who'd like adding, speak now or forever hold your peace ! >> > >Me, too! Me, too! she cried, tripping over 3 pair of modern Swedish >clogs as >she ran... I LOVE my clogs. Thanks for adding me! > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 02:41:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA25716 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 02:41:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA19667; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:46:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA17787 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:47:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from dub-img-10.compuserve.com (dub-img-10.compuserve.com [149.174.206.140]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA17774 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:47:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-10.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id CAA18360 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 02:46:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 02:46:26 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Clogs in England & History To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199901280246_MC2-6848-E24A@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id CAA25716 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson I'll add you but I need your mailing address ! Please send direct to my email address Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 03:50:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA31681 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 03:50:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA23398; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:56:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA21062 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:58:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from scorpion.netspace.net.au (scorpion.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.106]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA21046 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:57:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by scorpion.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id TAA20921 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:58:09 +1100 (EST) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t1-129.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.250.129]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id TAA16518 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:58:55 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199901280858.TAA16518@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: H-COST: CC17 touristy stuff Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:00:23 +1100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" Dear all, I am posting this message on behalf of David Scanlon, an Australian Costumers' Guild member who will be at Costume Con 17. David will be in the C-C area for about a week after the con and then in LA for a few days. He is looking for recommendations of things to see and do for a costumer abroad in these areas. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated by him. You can contact him at one of the following E-mails or I am happy to pass any messages along: C772639@vncpbnco3.telstra.com.au Or Lord_Necro@bigpond.com (the Lord Necro name is just a big joke, he is nothing like that really (I hope)). With thanks, -C. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 04:53:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA32138 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 04:53:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA26387; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 02:59:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA23495 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 03:00:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net (monsoon.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id DAA23490 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 03:00:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 7176 invoked from network); 28 Jan 1999 10:00:14 -0000 Received: from usero314.uk.uudial.com (HELO ) (193.149.88.76) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 1999 10:00:14 -0000 Message-ID: <36B0A44C.4D4F@dial.pipex.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:54:20 -0800 From: Viv Watkins X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Cloth of gold Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Viv Watkins Dear All I thought you might be interested in the one, real piece of cloth of gold that I have actually handled. I don't know how typical it is - it is a piece about 12 inches by 8, part of the stash of an elderly lady who did ecclesiastical embroidery. She was Royal School of Needlework trained in the twenties and the samples of her work she still kept were exquisite - soft angel faces in immaculate split stitch and or nue of amazing quality. Sorry, off topic for this list - back to the cloth of gold. It is plainly woven with a satin-like but, slightly rough surface - there is no pattern or any other color of thread. I don't know what the warp is, it is very closely woven, thick and very stiff, about the same hand as a plastic coated fabric! It is not a bit sparkly, it has a heavy, soft glow - very subtle. Sorry, I don't have more technical details but, it was a long time ago. Best wishes. Viv. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 07:05:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA00233 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:05:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA00937; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:11:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA27207 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:12:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.niagara.com (mail.niagara.com [209.5.56.12]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA27202 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:12:31 -0700 (MST) From: kathleen@niagara.com Received: from kathleen.niagara.com (isdn-90.niagara.com [209.5.58.90]) by mail.niagara.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA23783 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:12:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:12:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901281212.HAA23783@mail.niagara.com> X-Sender: kathleen@mail.niagara.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: cloth-of-gold: fakin' it Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kathleen@niagara.com >I actually HAVE seen cloth of gold at the Suleyman the Magnificent exhibition >(National Gallery of Art). It is wonderful and practically glows in the dark. >I think the method of manufacture involves wrapping fine gold (or silver or >copper) wire with colored silk and then weaving it. You get subtle differences >in color depending on the type of wire used. > >Kathleen Norvell Whereas the stuff with coloured silk one way and metallic the other (I can never remember which is the warp and which is the weft) is, I believe, what they called "tinsel" in period. (Arnold, "Lost from Her Majesty's Back") The Other Kathleen ;) (Catriona) () _/)(\_ "Tehee!" quod she, and clapte the wyndow to /~~\ /____\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 07:24:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA00337 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:24:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA01577; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:29:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA28142 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:31:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.niagara.com (mail.niagara.com [209.5.56.12]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA28128 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:30:58 -0700 (MST) From: kathleen@niagara.com Received: from kathleen.niagara.com (isdn-90.niagara.com [209.5.58.90]) by mail.niagara.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA24640 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:30:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:30:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901281230.HAA24640@mail.niagara.com> X-Sender: kathleen@mail.niagara.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kathleen@niagara.com >>Has anyone ever tried wiring the outer edge of the ruff to help it >>maintain the shape? Some of the Elizabethan standing ruffs must have >>been wired from the look of the portraits. Anyone have any info? > >I think they were just normal ruffs worn over a supportasse/ undrepropper, >i.e. unwired. Also, once the lace is startched it is >remarkably stiff. Besides, wiring a regular circular ruff wouldn't make sense considering the later falling ruff. (Van Dyck, etc.) You can see they are pleated the same as stiff ruffs...just limp. If the ruff itself had been wired, it would never achieve that look. The flat, squared front "cavalier" collars look remarkably like limp standing ruffs, too, don't you think? I can't get into the pleating controversy, simply because I still haven't cartridge pleated. (Soon, I promise) As soon as I figure out what you people mean by the possible methods I plan to check it out in context with the ruff-ironing hardware of the time, the really good sketches of ruffs in the farthingale shop drawing and the falling ruffs, where you can see a bit closer to the neck. Considering how fast I am about this...I'll get back to you sometime in the summer. :P Kathleen (Catriona) () _/)(\_ "Tehee!" quod she, and clapte the wyndow to /~~\ /____\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 07:27:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA00367 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:27:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA01744; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:33:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA28274 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:35:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.niagara.com (mail.niagara.com [209.5.56.12]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA28269 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:35:09 -0700 (MST) From: kathleen@niagara.com Received: from kathleen.niagara.com (isdn-90.niagara.com [209.5.58.90]) by mail.niagara.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA24912 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:35:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:35:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901281235.HAA24912@mail.niagara.com> X-Sender: kathleen@mail.niagara.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Anatomie of Abuses? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kathleen@niagara.com >>With the caveat that a preacher >From what I understand, Philip Stubbes was just an intellectual (dropped out of two universities) with puritanical leanings and a taste for spouting off. His brother was the actual church man. Am I wrong? Kathleen (Catriona) () _/)(\_ "Tehee!" quod she, and clapte the wyndow to /~~\ /____\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 08:41:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA00752 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:41:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA05237; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:47:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA02938 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:48:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA02932 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:48:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip19.denver22.co.pub-ip.psi.net [38.31.4.19]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA05897 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:48:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B06BBD.25C02A0B@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:53:02 -0700 From: Mary Denise Smith Organization: Costume & Dressmaker Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Lasting cloth References: <4.1.19990127140648.00c19100@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mary Denise Smith These comments on lasting cloth are from Cricket Bauer: I've come across references to it, but it is referred to as "everlasting" in the textile dictionaries. The S.F.A. Caufield Encyclopedia of Victorian Needlework (1882/1887) says, "a description of woollen JEAN, employed for the tops of boots. It is another name for PRUNELLA." I've come across it in other dictionaries as everlasting, too. Of course, Jean cloth was commonly used by the Confederate army, as well as by the Union army and civilians for work clothes. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 09:18:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00949 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:18:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA09318; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:23:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA06055 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:25:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA06047 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:25:15 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 6HRWa19752 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:24:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:24:43 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Lasting cloth Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com MD, What time period are you talking about? Everlasting in 1770's was a stout worsted cloth used a lot for shoes. Have seen milliner trade cards and orders from colonial Virginia to England for everlasting shoes. A prunella was a specific style, type of everlasting. Fiber content often changed over time thus a 19th century "lasting" could very well be different than the 18th century worsted. Osnaburg is another good example ... name the same but fiber content different over time (18th century linen, 19th and 20th century cotton). Sally _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 09:38:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01049 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:38:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA11337; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:43:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA07946 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:44:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.157]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA07922 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:44:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from stassja.bellatlantic.net (client-125-105.bellatlantic.net [151.198.125.105]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA25390 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:46:38 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990128094626.00a59a78@postoffice3.bellatlantic.net> X-Sender: stassja@postoffice3.bellatlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:46:28 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: "Mariea M. Goodinson-Dillenkofer" Subject: H-COST: Re:1950's costuming Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Mariea M. Goodinson-Dillenkofer" Thank you DJ and Karen for the info regarding Vogue Vintage Patterns, Style and New Look! I can't wait to get out there and start looking throught them! :) Rie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 09:40:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01071 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:40:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA11696; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:46:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA08370 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:47:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (mg134-121.ricochet.net [204.179.134.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA08357 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:47:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from ricochet.net (athene.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.14]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA09892 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:51:00 -0800 Message-ID: <36B0799F.175BB9ED@ricochet.net> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:53:28 -0800 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Lasting cloth References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue >Everlasting in 1770's was a stout worsted cloth used a lot for shoes. Is it possible that the name (lasting, everlasting) came from its use in shoes, (which are/were usually made around "lasts") rather than its durability? cv =-=-=-=-= "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 09:54:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01133 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:54:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA13346; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:00:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA09749 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:01:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f194.hotmail.com [207.82.251.83]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id IAA09742 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:01:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 25611 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jan 1999 15:00:58 -0000 Message-ID: <19990128150058.25610.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 157.182.175.116 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:00:58 PST X-Originating-IP: [157.182.175.116] From: "karrissa david" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: pricing question Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:00:58 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "karrissa david" -Poster: Margo Anderson It depends on where you live. I currently live in West Virginia and most people here will not buy a dress for over $200 unless it is a wedding dress. (I am also in the specialty dress making business.) However, in New Jersey (where I used to live) most people will think that a custom made dress of that price would be a steal. I personally have come to think convienence has overshadowed quality. To get high quality clothing, one has to pay for it. I think that if you tell your client the differences of what you would do versus if they bought the dress (or a faxcimile) off of the rack, they would understand why it is worth the higher price. I hope I was of service, Karrissa ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 10:03:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01203 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:03:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA14943; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:09:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA11013 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:10:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA11002 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:10:47 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id MYWNa00808 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:08:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3b7a7745.36b07d51@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:08:01 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Lasting cloth Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com In a message dated 99-01-28 09:48:32 EST, you write: > Is it possible that the name (lasting, everlasting) came from its use in > shoes, (which are/were usually made around "lasts") rather than its > durability? > What an interesting thought. Don't know, though. Haven't seen any contemporary sources with that direct link. Ah, to have a pool of money (a very, deep pool!) for primary source research. Sally _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 10:37:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01436 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:37:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA19084; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:41:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA15695 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:43:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu (oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu [128.174.48.92]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA15665 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:43:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:48:13 -0600 Message-ID: <6BAA9E7DB36AD2118FA60060943F1CAF1466C8@oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu> From: "Abbott, Ruth" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Garb thoughts for large men Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:48:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Abbott, Ruth" I am looking for all tips and ideas for garbing a large man in medieval attire. (By large, I mean that his waist is larger than his chest, and under that he's fairly well muscled all over.) I've read many suggestions for adapting to women's shapes, but I'm wondering how to make my dear husband both comfortable and attractive. Alix _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 10:50:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01517 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:50:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA20703; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:55:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA18296 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:57:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA18224 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA23870 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:57:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B088F1.275B2765@serv.net> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:57:37 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs References: <3.0.1.32.19990127234501.00a53bd0@mail.interlog.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > >Has anyone ever tried wiring the outer edge of the ruff to help it > >maintain the shape? Some of the Elizabethan standing ruffs must have > >been wired from the look of the portraits. Anyone have any info? My "secret"? 25# fishing line, sewn into the edge. It makes a perfect and graceful ruffle. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 10:50:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01521 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:50:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA20758; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:56:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA18445 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:57:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA18332 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:57:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA05807 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:00:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19644 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:58:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:58:30 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: Re: H-COST: Garb thoughts for large men In-Reply-To: <6BAA9E7DB36AD2118FA60060943F1CAF1466C8@oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed I've always found Tudor to be a good period for large men. The broad shoulders tend to balance out the sillhouete, and looks very grand & dignified. Drea On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Abbott, Ruth wrote: > > -Poster: "Abbott, Ruth" > > I am looking for all tips and ideas for garbing a large man in medieval > attire. (By large, I mean that his waist is larger than his chest, and > under that he's fairly well muscled all over.) I've read many > suggestions for adapting to women's shapes, but I'm wondering how to > make my dear husband both comfortable and attractive. > > Alix > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 10:56:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01551 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:56:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA21509; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:01:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA20293 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:02:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from svpal.svpal.org (suetoo@svpal.svpal.org [204.118.32.56]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA20127 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (suetoo@localhost) by svpal.svpal.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA08893 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:00:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:00:22 -0800 (PST) From: Sue Toorans To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: cloth-of-gold: fakin' it In-Reply-To: <199901281212.HAA23783@mail.niagara.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sue Toorans I have been reading all the descriptions of cloth-of-gold until my mouth waters and I want to DO something. A while ago I found a supply of pre-Lurex metal thread. Some of it has that lovely, rich patina that can only come from age and real metal. Now I want to weave with the stuff. If I did, what would I use it for? Any suggestions? Selling it is probably not an option. It would cost like the real thing, once all my time was factored in. Sue I am *NOT* a rabid feminist! I had my shots last year. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 11:46:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA01843 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:46:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA29404; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:50:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA01109 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:29:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA01100 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:29:38 -0700 (MST) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 9XABa20088 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:28:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5b5c1a75.36b09043@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:28:51 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 1830s dress belts Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com Hi folks, I've been working on a ton of different things all at once (so what else is new) including a sweet 1830s dress. Everything's going fine but I'm having some difficulty with the belt, that is in none of the fashion plates of the period am I able to see whether or not the belt is of self fabric. And the actual photos I've seen of existing dresses don't seem to have belts. Were belts not really worn all that often in real life? And if they were were they self fabric or something else? I've looked thru my whole library on this and have come up empty handed. Thanks for any and all tips. Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 12:01:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01925 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:01:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA01928; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:05:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA09109 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from griffon.mwsc.edu (griffon.mwsc.edu [150.200.1.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA09088 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:06:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from [150.200.70.53] (findlay.commstud.mwsc.edu [150.200.70.53]) by griffon.mwsc.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA28292 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:02:58 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36B088F1.275B2765@serv.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19990127234501.00a53bd0@mail.interlog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:03:56 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Walter Robin Findlay Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Walter Robin Findlay the smaller ruffs relied on starch to hold them out ....the larger ones have stiffeners under the ruff to hold them up. like a shelf (sort of) to rest on. there are some paintings that show this feature. Lucy Barton has a drawing in her book to show this. Janet arnold show the support devise under a wisk in her Patters of Fashion 1560-1620 book. they were made of materials like wood , heavy paper of stiffened fabrics. Wiring the outer edge will keep the end shape but not support the ruff. >-Poster: Merouda the True > >> >Has anyone ever tried wiring the outer edge of the ruff to help it >> >maintain the shape? Some of the Elizabethan standing ruffs must have >> >been wired from the look of the portraits. Anyone have any info? > >My "secret"? 25# fishing line, sewn into the edge. It makes a perfect and >graceful ruffle. Cynthia > >-- >Cynthia Long >Merouda the True of Beaumaris >Barony of Madrone >Kingdom of An Tir > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME THANK YOU W. ROBIN FINDLAY "Is that all there is?".................Miss Peggy Lee _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 12:30:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA02140 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:30:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA06301; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:32:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA15741 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:34:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA15734 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:34:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA24254 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:34:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B09FB2.7DD428E5@serv.net> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:34:43 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs References: <3.0.1.32.19990127234501.00a53bd0@mail.interlog.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True I forgot to mention the silk organza and horsetail braid. *g* Even 8 inch ruffs stay stiff after a hand wash and hang dry. I got my "recipe" for ruffs from a Costume Laurel in my neck of the woods. She freely admits to cheating on it, but the results are spectacular. Her most recent Elizabethan was breathtaking, she had a ruff that was probably 12" out plus lace points with a huge organza heart coming up behind her head. Ohmigod, I have to get those pictures developed. Perfect down to the ruff bugs. > the smaller ruffs relied on starch to hold them out ....the larger ones > have stiffeners under the ruff to hold them up. like a shelf (sort of) > to rest on. > > >My "secret"? 25# fishing line, sewn into the edge. It makes a perfect and > >graceful ruffle. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 13:00:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02403 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:00:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA10992; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:57:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA24667 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:59:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA24597 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:59:02 -0700 (MST) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DZ3PCGML; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:57:21 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:44:04 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: cloth-of-gold: fakin' it Message-ID: <19990128.114415.3726.14.seamstrix@juno.com> References: <4.1.19990127141915.00c1a100@pop.slip.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 16-20 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com I have seen what I believe is cloth of gold at the Chicago Historical Society last spring. The Chicagoland Costumers Guild was priviledged to take a behind the scenes tour of their costume collection, and they had a fabulous '20's dress out on a mannequin. I saw it from across the room and immediately went sprinting over to it crying "My gosh, that's cloth of gold!" It looked like it had dark blue/black threads one way and the gold running the other way. It was a typical mid-'20's design with dropped waist and lots of detail on the skirt. I seem to remember it being in blue and gold, but Carol could confirm or deny this. I was able to get my nose right up to it and as previously stated it didn't so much glitter as gleam. I think the description of it having a hand like heavy satin is about right, there was certainly a weight to the way it hung. I seem to remember it having a slightly crinkly texture, it wasn't smooth. The provenance of the dress was not known, but many Chicago society women have donated older items to the collection, so I'm sure it came from one of the Gold Coast elite. I tried to visualize a whole Elizabethan made from fabric like that, and the effect would have been stunning! Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 13:01:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02421 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:01:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA11684; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:01:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA19420 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:43:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from m16.boston.juno.com (m16.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.192]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA19341 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:43:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m16.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DZ3NH76C; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:43:00 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs Message-ID: <19990128.092717.7783.6.cley@juno.com> References: <199901261903.LAA03431@zeus.directcon.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-39 From: cynthia j ley Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:43:00 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: cynthia j ley An Tir's current Queen made one for her Coronation and it is magnificent. Hers fit down the back of her gown, but was easily removable, and covered with cloth to match the gown. The ruff looked perfect. She elicited gasps of pleased astonishment when she came into Court for the first time. She's a Costuming Laurel. Arlys >>Sometimes to hold up a big ruff the Elizabethans in the later period >wore a >>supportasse, a flat shape that fit under the ruff made with wires and >often >>merely covered with paper, although occasionally covered with cloth. >>Usually they aren't round, they're deeper in the back and shallow in >the >>front and tilt upward in the back and down in the front, framing the >face, >>not the neck. >> >>These are discussed in costume books and sometimes shown in >portraits. I've >>never made one since my personad doesn't wear a ruff. Has anyone >tried one >>of these? > > >Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 13:21:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02623 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:21:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA12565; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:07:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA27738 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA27682 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:08:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA24356 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:08:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B0A7DA.6A63D318@serv.net> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:09:30 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs References: <199901261903.LAA03431@zeus.directcon.net> <19990128.092717.7783.6.cley@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True A minor correction. The part that attached at the back of her gown was the huge heart shaped organza fan. It did have a stiff handle that fit down into the back of the gown into the corset. The ruff was actually a seperate piece. It was of the kind seen in the Elizabeth Ditchley portrait. I was fortunate enough to see it on the dress maker's dummy in progress. wow. Cynthia > An Tir's current Queen made one for her Coronation and it is magnificent. > Hers fit down the back of her gown, but was easily removable, and covered > with cloth to match the gown. The ruff looked perfect. She elicited gasps > of pleased astonishment when she came into Court for the first time. > She's a Costuming Laurel. -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 13:29:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02681 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:29:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA01351; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:02:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA08581 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:03:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id KAA08552 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:03:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:03:33 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19990127201703.00760bdc@postoffice3.bellatlantic.net> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:08:03 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: 1950's costuming Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: "Mariea M. Goodinson-Dillenkofer" > >Hi all! > > I just wondered if anyone knows of any good patterns available for a >1950's type dress, the kind usually referred to as a "prom dress" - >strapless fitted bodice with a very full skirt gathered at the waist and >usually with a wide sash that makes a bow in back. I know this sounds >simple to put together from scratch but I wondered if there's a pattern out >there to make the work simpler (also, I'm not sure what fabrics would get >used other than taffeta, net and organdy for this type of party dress). > > Thanks for any leads! > > Rie Hi, Rei, Me again with my plug for Vogue patterns. In Nov/Dec, I mentioned that there were the "new" Vogue Vintage patterns available - four patterns of suits and dresses that were originally sold in the 30's and 40's. Excuse me, 1930's and 1940's (sometimes I forget to whom I'm writing). Vogue added a fifth pattern in early January, a 1950's strapless, fitted bodice with a very full skirt gathered at the waist. I can't remember if it had the sash and bow in the back, but probably. Joann's had it available when I was there yesterday buying up their Vogue patterns at 70% off and their Butterick patterns for $1.99. This sale lasts until Friday? Saturday? It's a lovely dress; it would even make someone as short and stubby as I am tall and thin. No relationship to Joann's. No relationship to Vogue except that my mom taught me to sew with their patterns first. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 13:38:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02734 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:38:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA17506; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:36:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA28419 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:11:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA28257 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:10:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from 38.11.190.105 (ip120.phoenix8.az.pub-ip.psi.net [38.29.61.120]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA21452 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:10:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B045CE.50A7@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:11:10 +0000 From: "S.B. McDaniel" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0-C-AICK1-2 (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: 'dress'- What is it? References: <199901280611.XAA11591@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "S.B. McDaniel" The following is from the novel "St. Peter's Finger" by Gladys Mitchell, published in 1938: " Ulrica Doyle sat in class sewing her hopes and fears into a calico nightdress. The material was harsh with 'dress', her needle- the second one that morning, for she had broken the first... was too fine for this type of work." Anybody out there have a clue what the author means by "'dress'"? Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 13:38:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02732 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:38:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA17681; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:37:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA28856 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:12:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA28811 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:12:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.195 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:27:16 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Picot Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:29:44 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be4ad3$56cbbc20$c317ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990127134502.00c38840@pop.slip.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I've seen the machine made edge Carolyn refers to on 20's and 30's silk garments for ruffles and to finish seams. It was standard issue, if you can say that about a silk evening dress, machine done. (I grew up outside of Newport, Rhode Island, and my dress-up clothes in the '50's included all those 10's and 20's and '30's silk dresses cast off by the rich and titled who lived "down the Avenue") The zigzag was incredibly narrow, and done in superfine silk thread, and the fabric edge, was scarcely turned, folded once at most about 1/32". If you were to use standard dressmaking thread of today, a close zigzag stitch wouldn't work on silk fabric, in that the edge would become hard and stiff with all that thread. With superfine silk thread, yes, it will work nicely, and because the edge is turned only once, a lot easier. Industrial machines could do a lot then that wasn't available on home sewing machines. The picot edge I described using a blanket type stitch is a slightly different animal, in that the fabric edge is turned twice, about 1/8" each time, the stitches were further apart, and the scalloped edge results when each stitch cinches in the hem. It is called a "shell stitch", no. 13 on the Elna 9000, number 11 on the Elna 8000. It is more of a lingerie edge finish, and can be done with normal dressmaking thread because the stitches are far enough apart so that the edge isn't stiffened by too much thread. My advice is to find out which of your machine stitches is compatible with your available thread and fabric, by trying out several alternative samples until you get the result you like. I am always imagining things for my Elna 9000 to do, only to find out that the fancy stitch doesn't work with that thread on that fabric, although it worked perfectly fine with other materials. I haven't broken down and ordered silk thread by mail order yet, although that day is coming.... I prefer the picot edge because I can use standard dressmaking cotton or polyester thread commercially available in my area to make an edge which is soft enough against my ultra-sensitive skin. My skin always notices polyester thread as an unwelcome foreign object, so I try to use it as sparingly as possible, usually using French seams to keep it from rubbing me. In any event, your garment will be rendered most scrumptious and luxurious by finishing off those edges. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 4:50 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Picot? -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows So that's what that edge stitch is called. I had an original 20's dress which had ruffles with edges which looked like they had been zig-zagged, and I was going crazy figuring out how they got a zig-zag edge before the zig-zag stitch was common. If I were you I'd zig-zag your edges. It will look a lot like the edges on my original do. You might touch the edge with fray check first, altho they must have done without. Stitch right on the edge so it doesn't roll. (BTW, you can almost fake a rolled hem by zig-zagging the edge so it does roll.) >I'm making a 1920's dress in silk chiffon, working from a contempory >dressmaking instruction manual. The instructions for edging the draped >skirt panels simply tell me to have the pieces "picoted". I understand that >there used to be businesses that did this, but they are no more. > >Can anyone tell me what modern finish would be the closest aproximation to >picoting? My serger manual gives instructions for a "picot hem" which seems >to involve using the rolled hem setting, but with a long stitch. Would that >be it? I also have a baby hemmer for my standard machine, but I'm not good >with it, especially on corners, which this piece has. My client's budget >does not extend to having me hand roll the hem. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 13:48:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02790 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:48:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA20026; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:51:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA11799 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:52:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.157]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA11733 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:52:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from stassja.bellatlantic.net (client-125-90.bellatlantic.net [151.198.125.90]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA22561 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:54:29 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990128135418.00a0603c@postoffice3.bellatlantic.net> X-Sender: stassja@postoffice3.bellatlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:54:20 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: "Mariea M. Goodinson-Dillenkofer" Subject: H-COST: 1950's costuming / Vogue Patterns Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Mariea M. Goodinson-Dillenkofer" Lynn wrote: >Me again with my plug for Vogue patterns. In Nov/Dec, I mentioned that >there were the "new" Vogue Vintage patterns available - ... >added a fifth pattern in early January, a 1950's strapless, fitted bodice >with a very full skirt gathered at the waist. I found a website for Vogue Patterns and, oddly enough, they didn't have it listed under the "Vintage Patterns" but had it listed in their evening wear / bridal section. What's odd is that is IS labelled as a "Vogue Vintage" and it's pattern number 2239 for anyone interested ($25 american). It's got a pattern for using a sash or a small belt. Looks good! Also found two on the Simplicity website in the Style catalog in the evening & bridal which can be easily adapted. #2901 (which is shown as a wedding dress but shortening it would do the trick) and #2873 (which is shown sleeveless, not strapless and seems to have a slight dip at the waist in front but is still in the ballpark). Don't know the pattern prices (they don't list them) but they're probably less than the vogue patterns. I'd like to see them all to compare, though. :) The above is just in case anyone else happens to want to make this 1950's repro. :) > Joann's had it available when >I was there yesterday buying up their Vogue patterns at 70% off and their >Butterick patterns for $1.99. This sale lasts until Friday? Saturday? Wow! That's a deal considering the $25 price tag! Thank you for all your help! Rie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 14:07:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02930 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:07:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA24526; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:11:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA17794 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:13:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA17782 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:12:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p26.directcon.net [206.170.184.75]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA13394 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:07:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:07:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901281907.LAA13394@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: pricing question Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson > >It depends on where you live. I think that's the problem here. I used to live and work in the San Francisco Bay Area. Now I'm in a small town in rural Northern California, and the attitudes toward these things are completely different. Just another thing to get used to, like the fact that the public library has five costume books. Oh well, rent is less than half the amount it used to be! I'm not interested in dropping my prices to the locally acceptable levels, So I think I'll just have to face facts and figure that costuming is going to mostly be my hobby, not my business, from now on. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 14:11:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02954 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:11:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA25042; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:14:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA10948 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:50:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA10749 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:50:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA24472 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:50:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B0B18C.1FAB8342@serv.net> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:50:54 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 'dress'- What is it? References: <199901280611.XAA11591@indra.com> <36B045CE.50A7@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > " Ulrica Doyle sat in class sewing her hopes and fears into a calico > nightdress. The material was harsh with 'dress', her needle- the second > one that morning, for she had broken the first... was too fine for this > type of work." > > Anybody out there have a clue what the author means by "'dress'"? It's my guess that her use of dress implies something more along the lines of "gown". The calico being to harsh and common to be in a category of "dress". FWIW, Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 14:17:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03000 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:17:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA26343; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:21:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA19382 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:22:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA19373 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:22:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p26.directcon.net [206.170.184.75]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA14519 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:17:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:17:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901281917.LAA14519@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Garb thoughts for large men Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 09:48 AM 1/28/99 -0600, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Abbott, Ruth" > >I am looking for all tips and ideas for garbing a large man in medieval >attire. (By large, I mean that his waist is larger than his chest, and >under that he's fairly well muscled all over.) It having been my fortune to have married a man shaped like that, I sympathize. I've had good luck with dressing him in dark tunics with "yokes" of decoration or trim, drawing the eye upward to the broad shoulders. They look best cut long (at least to the lower thigh, with nether garments in the same tone, but ankle length is even better. TRY to get him to wear his belt around his waist, not his hips where most men want them. If the belt is a color that matches or tones with the tunic, it will be unobtrusive but still give him a place to hang his pouch, etc. Of course, the ideal look for this build is Henry VIII. It emphasizes the shoulders, skims over the waist, and shows off the legs. Unfortunately, it takes fairly high skills and a lot of fabric and trim, so I've never been in a position to make one. Someday! Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 14:24:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03037 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:24:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA27096; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:25:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA20161 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:26:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA20140 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:26:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p26.directcon.net [206.170.184.75]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA15020 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:21:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:21:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901281921.LAA15020@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 'dress'- What is it? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson > >Anybody out there have a clue what the author means by "'dress'"? Sounds like sizing, a nasty, starch like substance they treat cloth with to make it feel more substantial and better than it is. You know how new sheets sometimes have a stiff feel until you wash them? That's sizing. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 14:26:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03055 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:26:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA27641; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:29:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA20852 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:30:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA20844 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:30:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id LAA00369 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:28:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B0BA34.4FCDAA5D@best.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:27:48 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 'dress'- What is it? References: <199901280611.XAA11591@indra.com> <36B045CE.50A7@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press S.B. McDaniel wrote: > -Poster: "S.B. McDaniel" > > The following is from the novel "St. Peter's Finger" by Gladys Mitchell, > published in 1938: > > " Ulrica Doyle sat in class sewing her hopes and fears into a calico > nightdress. The material was harsh with 'dress', her needle- the second > one that morning, for she had broken the first... was too fine for this > type of work." > > Anybody out there have a clue what the author means by "'dress'"? Dressing, a finish applied to the fabric to approve its appearance. Possibly in some cases applied to cheap fabric to deceive customers into thinking they are buying better quality. Usually comes out in the first washing. I'd say Ulrica did not preshrink her fabric and is in for a surprise. Fran Grimble ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 14:48:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03155 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:48:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA01235; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:50:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA24485 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:52:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA24441 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:51:55 -0700 (MST) From: AliaClaire@aol.com Received: from AliaClaire@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id UIKNa00811 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:41:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1abb5c7.36b0bd80@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:41:52 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 1830s dress belts Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com Loren- I'm not near an expert on this, but here's my two cents. In the existing 1830s dresses I've seen, most have had only a small self- fabric waistband to which the bodice was basted. This was what the skirt was gathered/pleated/gauged/whatnot into. I do not remember seeing decorative belts still existing, but I have also not looked at many fashion plates of the time. Out of curiosity, what pattern are you using? -Alison Stacy AliaClaire@aol.com Canton, Ohio _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 15:23:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03345 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:23:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA22810; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:03:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA16212 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:05:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA16137 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:05:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p26.directcon.net [206.170.184.75]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA12474 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:59:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:59:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901281859.KAA12474@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Lasting cloth Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson Jean cloth was commonly used by the Confederate army, as well as by the Union army >and civilians for work clothes. > Now, is "jean cloth" denim, or is there some other reason they're called "jeans"? I've heard the rumor that they got the name by being worn by French sailors, many of whom were named Jean, but it sounds like a costume myth to me. Anyone? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 15:26:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03368 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:26:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA07135; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:30:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA02016 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:31:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (artemis.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA01993 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:31:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc (ppp25.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.145]) by artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA12900 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:33:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004701be4afd$cbd27020$91a06480@dsc> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: Dress Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:35:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" -Greetings! > " Ulrica Doyle sat in class sewing her hopes and fears into a calico >nightdress. The material was harsh with 'dress', her needle- the second >one that morning, for she had broken the first... was too fine for this >type of work." I'm assuming it's some sort of finish or "dressing" to the cloth. You know how when you buy some cottons or quilting fabrics they're shiny and stiff? That sort of thing. Susan Carroll-Clark _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 15:31:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03396 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:31:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA06110; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:23:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA00724 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:25:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA00672 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:25:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 153.37.150.243 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:24:53 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Neck Ruffs Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:02:06 -0500 Message-ID: <000401be4afc$eb246ec0$7517ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990127133406.00c18d90@pop.slip.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I'll keep my eye out for the book again. I've been cruising through a lot of English, Irish, and French lately, and this wasn't my primary focus. Re the 25# fishing line, I saw it in Turkey used in exquisite and very fun edgings made for veils in the shape of flowers of every sort. You could buy the handmade edgings in the Street of Women's Handicrafts in Bursa, and they are made of very fine colored crochet cotton with a needle-made flower every inch or so on the border. Pansies, lilies, tulips, and 100's more. They use the nylon fishing line to stiffen the edges of the flowers, and it is impossible to detect it. Women buy it to sew on the edge of their rayon veiling. I wonder if there was an old-fashioned substitute like horsehair or beeswax impregnated thread or something? In any event, this is culture evolving! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 4:35 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Neck Ruffs -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Saw a painting today with a multitiered ruff, box-pleated >and then gathered as well. Couldn't see enough to confirm >a neck bank or not, but it spoke to the variety of ruffs out >there! Where can we see the picture? Is it in a commonly available costume or painting book or web site? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 15:33:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03406 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:33:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA06061; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:23:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA00656 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:25:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA00640 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:25:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 153.37.150.243 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:24:41 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: cloth-of-gold: fakin' it Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:28:02 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be4afc$e44cb940$7517ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Our family still has a number of white wool shawls which my grandmother wove, probably in the 40's, using pre-lurex metal thread occasionally for a rich look. There seems to be an occasional rayon yarn in white, and occasional boucle yarn also in white, but the bulk of it is lightweight soft white wool, not very twisted, for both the warp and the weft, and loosely woven. The current users inherited them when family members passed away, and there's a waiting list. They've been in constant use, winter and summer since the 40's. By rights they should be rags, but they're not. There is just enough shimmer for it to be dressy, but not enough so that it can't play a casual role. It's wide, so it's a stole, but soft and light enough so that it also functions as a scarf. The pattern is basically a plaid, but all white with gold threads. It would have worked well in beige, black, or virtually any color which looks nice with gold for that matter. Hope you have as good luck with yours as she did with this one! P.S. 100 year old damasks I saw in Turkey used a gilt thread in one direction and silk ones the other direction. Could be developed as a brocaded band or an all-over pattern if you're really dedicated. There are a number of embroidery uses which beg for such nice stuff too! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sue Toorans Sent: Thursday, January 28, 1999 11:00 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: cloth-of-gold: fakin' it -Poster: Sue Toorans I have been reading all the descriptions of cloth-of-gold until my mouth waters and I want to DO something. A while ago I found a supply of pre-Lurex metal thread. Some of it has that lovely, rich patina that can only come from age and real metal. Now I want to weave with the stuff. If I did, what would I use it for? Any suggestions? Selling it is probably not an option. It would cost like the real thing, once all my time was factored in. Sue I am *NOT* a rabid feminist! I had my shots last year. ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 15:38:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03433 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:38:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA25142; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:15:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA07647 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:41:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA07406 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:40:36 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 9YHHa27801; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:39:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:39:12 EST To: brujne@creighton.edu Cc: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: pricing question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 1/28/1999 09:27:59 Pacific Standard Time, Cindy.Abel@creighton.edu writes: I'm not sure what the point you are trying to make is. As a costumer, I frequently shop in consignment/used clothing, etc. shops. But the original question was what should someone expect to pay for a one of a kind hand-made dress. The price that Margo quoted of $300 was more than reasonable. There is no question that an an evening wear/prom, etc., dress can be found for less, but that isn't really the point. If someone wants to pay a seamstress to make them a dress, they should expect to pay for what that kind of time, care and creativity will provide. Ready-made wear on sale or used not- withstanding. angil + + + + + + + Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing "Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds" A. Einstein << There are prom dresses on the rack at JC Penney's for $100-$150 on sale. Most will be worn once and sent to a consignment shop. This is fine if one can fit into these things, but alterations are often necessary and of course the sizes are mostly Juniors which is why so many of them are 30-50% off just before and after prom. My sixteen year old niece usually needs to alter any off the rack dress since she is large-busted in relation to her other measurements. She chose a streach satin and velvet short dress for fall prom this last year even though her mom was more than willing to pay to have a gorgous(and more expensive)burgundy full-lenght Titanic-style dress she really looked wonderful in altered. Her reasons: I can wear the black dress again and it won't need altering. Besides I already have shoes. Disgustingly practical child--I was ready to buy her shoes to match the burgundy dress! I said she could probably sell the dress second-hand right away for decent bucks if money was the question since her school's fall prom was one of the first of the season. Many girls in Omaha now shop the consignment shops in the ritzy part of town for prom dresses and can rent one at some bridal stores now. Last weekend there were several mother-daughter(and sometimes grandma too who I suspected would be doing the prom-dress making)teams out at the fabric stores hunting. The girls all wanted something different than what was out there to buy off the rack or hunting through the on-sale materials for something cheaper. >> _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 15:38:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03437 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:38:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA24754; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:12:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA18031 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:14:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA18020 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:14:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:14:05 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36B045CE.50A7@earthlink.net> References: <199901280611.XAA11591@indra.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:18:35 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 'dress'- What is it? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: "S.B. McDaniel" > >The following is from the novel "St. Peter's Finger" by Gladys Mitchell, >published in 1938: > > " Ulrica Doyle sat in class sewing her hopes and fears into a calico >nightdress. The material was harsh with 'dress', her needle- the second >one that morning, for she had broken the first... was too fine for this >type of work." > > >Anybody out there have a clue what the author means by "'dress'"? > >Sandy Some sort of finish?? LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 15:54:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03528 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:54:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA12024; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:59:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA07084 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:01:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy.netwizards.net (qmailr@Proxy.NetWizards.Net [206.99.115.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id OAA07076 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:01:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 20884 invoked from network); 28 Jan 1999 22:07:03 -0000 Received: from bayarea56k578.netwiz.net (HELO slave) (208.164.208.178) by proxy.netwizards.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 1999 22:07:03 -0000 Message-ID: <36B0D000.65C5@netwiz.net> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:00:48 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: pricing question References: <199901280422.UAA08584@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi Does that *include* the fabric?? Sounds like a bargain to me! Maybe she's never spent that much 'cause she's never had a really nice dress (or whatever) Explain the difference between "custom made" (or hand made) and "home made". good luck! Susan F. Margo Anderson wrote: > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > I have a question about pricing a costume. A friend of my parents wants me > to make her a 1920's dress, suitable for a dinner party, that she could also > wear to other, non costume formal events. We found a design for a very > pretty chiffon dress with long sleeves and draped panels on the skirt. To > make this dress, in silk chiffon, I quoted her a price of $300. Although > she was very nice about it, she was flabbergasted at the price, and said > she's never spent this much on any piece of clothing. > > Now, I've been out of the loop for quite some time as far as formal clothing > goes, but does this price really seem that high? Isn't this about what a > dressy dress of decent quality, bought off the rack, costs these days? Or > am I just too expensive? > > Margo Anderson > Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 16:11:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03627 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:11:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA14781; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:16:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA10263 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:17:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id OAA10185 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:17:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 8946 invoked from network); 28 Jan 1999 21:19:10 -0000 Received: from tntmodem1-89.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.133.89) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 1999 21:19:10 -0000 Message-ID: <36B0F876.7C7A@mc.net> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:53:26 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: 1893 fashion prediction References: <199901280611.XAA11591@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law > Subject: H-COST: 1893 fashion prediction > > - -Poster: "Christine Robb" > > A peculiar little site, probably better looked at on April 1: > http://www.ffutures.demon.co.uk/fashion/fut_fash.htm Or a few weeks before attending a science-fiction convention! (Reminds me of those egg- and other odd-shaped cars they always have as "cars of the future at auto shows. And now, back to our topic...:-) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 16:26:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03709 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:26:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA15969; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:23:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA11615 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:24:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id OAA11564 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:24:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 11715 invoked from network); 28 Jan 1999 21:26:53 -0000 Received: from tntmodem1-89.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.133.89) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 1999 21:26:53 -0000 Message-ID: <36B0FA46.4B@mc.net> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:01:11 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: 50's prom dress References: <199901280611.XAA11591@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Have you checked out the patterns on eBay? Also, there are a couple of sites that sell old patterns, including at least one of The Big Ones; try a search on Vogue, Butterick, Simplicity, and McCalls -- or just clothing patterns, vintage. Heather _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 16:30:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03738 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:30:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA17096; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:28:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA12874 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:30:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu (oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu [128.174.48.92]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA12865 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:30:14 -0700 (MST) Received: by oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:35:15 -0600 Message-ID: <6BAA9E7DB36AD2118FA60060943F1CAF1466C9@oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu> From: "Abbott, Ruth" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Garb for large men, additional Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:35:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Abbott, Ruth" I see that I should have made a few things clearer: I can understand the suggestions to dress my husband like Henry VIII or in the less flamboyant Tudor style, but in all honesty I am not going to go to that much work on his behalf unless he asks me to. Or, I am at least going to make some elaborate garb for myself first. I will mentally file the idea away, though, even though simpler garb was what I had in mind. What I was mostly hoping for was those little tricks to deal with fitting and such. Margo mentioned a few things about "disguising" girth, but are there any techniques that would assure a good fit? For example, I have considered whether adding gores to a T-tunic would make sense, to allow for more room. It seems to me that the gores would have to start quite high to be of help, since it's not a matter of wanting to flair out at the hips as with a woman. Then they would just look silly (I imagine) and likely draw the eye right to his middle. Also, is there any way to include extra ease across the back, without distorting the shapes of garments? These are the kinds of questions I am pondering. Alix _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 19:12:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04639 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:12:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA16423; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:15:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA03329 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:28:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.niagara.com (mail.niagara.com [209.5.56.12]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA03321 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:28:42 -0700 (MST) From: kathleen@niagara.com Received: from kathleen.niagara.com (isdn-70.niagara.com [209.5.58.70]) by mail.niagara.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA18919 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:28:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:28:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901282328.SAA18919@mail.niagara.com> X-Sender: kathleen@mail.niagara.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Garb for large men, additional Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kathleen@niagara.com >simpler garb was what I had in mind. Middle Eastern. A long caftan covered by the loose aba (lovely vertical lines and flowing to the heels) The sashes are folded in nifty ways that act as a change purse, too. (added bonus) And those headcoverings are great for avoiding sunstroke and sunburns on the back of his neck. Wonderful, practical and flattering garb. I made a set (with the short caftan and chalwar...kind of Bedoin-rider) for a friend of mine with the "Tudor" physique...it worked great. (A more accessible example...John Rhys-Davies in Raiders of the Lost Ark) The vertical lines of the aba provide a great illusion. If you make chalwar, make the ones with the narrow calf, not the balloony ones women wear. Tucks into boots better. And it's more comfortable if you use a strip of cloth instead of a drawstring at the waist. Simple...great for camping...and one size covers all... Kathleen (Catriona) (with apologies for not remembering most of the real words) () _/)(\_ "Tehee!" quod she, and clapte the wyndow to /~~\ /____\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 19:12:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04643 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:12:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA16393; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:15:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA03819 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:31:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA03804 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:31:20 -0700 (MST) From: ErrickII@aol.com Received: from ErrickII@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id VARPa07010 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:24:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:24:01 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Garb thoughts for large men Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ErrickII@aol.com In a message dated 1/28/1999 10:45:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, r-abbott@oar- xch1.oar.uiuc.edu writes: > > I am looking for all tips and ideas for garbing a large man in medieval > attire. (By large, I mean that his waist is larger than his chest, and > under that he's fairly well muscled all over.) I've read many > suggestions for adapting to women's shapes, but I'm wondering how to > make my dear husband both comfortable and attractive. > What time frame are you considering? Early medieval is very easy, late period can be more of a challange. I've done early for years, and my wife is working on a new outfit of late period garb, think a Henery the VIII style. Errick _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 19:17:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04670 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:17:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA16441; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:15:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA22297 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:25:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA22276 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:25:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA25169 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:25:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B0E3EB.60492F9B@serv.net> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:25:47 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Garb for large men, additional References: <6BAA9E7DB36AD2118FA60060943F1CAF1466C9@oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > What I was mostly hoping for was those little tricks to deal with > fitting and such. I have a friend whose husband is quite large, top to bottom so to speak. At any rate, she cuts his T-tunics from 60' fabric and makes no other concessions. They appear to fit him fine, he appears happy with his simple manly garb. Occassionally, she might do something like use a different color at the top in a point-down pattern. But it she doesn't seem to have any difficulties. You might not either. Certainly color choices help, black and darker colors are slimming for instance. -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 19:27:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04724 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:27:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA19753; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:32:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA14102 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:34:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA14093 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:34:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.128]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id QAA06487; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:34:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id QAA15295; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:32:48 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhRdxFp0Ca06AQHJIAKEF8Zjht6tvQIUTCsJ+XRYVr3ZBbadwTUAVgR52/A= From: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:32:47 -0700 (MST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 50's prom dress Message-ID: <6044-36B101AF-728@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: Heather Law 's message of Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:01:11 -0800 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Didn't Folkwear have a 50's dress? It's been awhile, but I think I remember one. Starsinger _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 19:29:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04734 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:29:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA19886; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:33:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA14270 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:35:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net (raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA14254 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:35:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from alt1 (sdn-ar-002dcwashP335.dialsprint.net [168.191.22.113]) by raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA08787 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:35:17 -0800 (PST) From: "Allison Thurman" To: Subject: H-COST: menswear Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:37:51 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2212 (4.71.2419.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Allison Thurman" it wasnt that these styles didnt last long (im even told that in la the retro-swing kid scene has brought the zoot back) but that they werent the "norm" - typically these colorful styles are worn only by fashion subcultures, not by the general populace. the more outrageous mens styles mentioned generally dont reach mainstream acceptance until they are seriously toned down. allison - -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > It wasn't till the late 1950's that men really started wearing colours > again (except for Hawaiian shirts and the occasional cool neckties). The > Zoot suits in the 1940's were the first really radical change in cut in > many decades. The English designers like Mary Quant in the early 60's put > colour and pattern back on men, along with differently cut suits. Then all > sartorial-**** broke loose, leading to the Hippies and the Unisex clothing > experiments of the late 60's-early 70's. Yea, but that didn't last long. Sylvia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 19:33:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04762 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:33:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA20452; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:36:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA14630 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:38:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from isomedia.com (root@watson.isomedia.com [207.149.221.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA14607 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:37:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from wingate (pm1018.isomedia.com [209.102.119.50] (may be forged)) by isomedia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA16244 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:59:50 -0800 From: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Garb for large men, additional Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:37:05 -0800 Message-ID: <001201be4b1f$7ec10180$5bde95cf@wingate> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <6BAA9E7DB36AD2118FA60060943F1CAF1466C9@oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" I don't think you have to create such elaborate garb for your large Lord. I am going thru the same problem with my husband. He has a huge gut, and is an ex-swimmer, so is very bulky in the back shoulders. He is also very short legged, and loves to wear things on his hip. I try to use only 60 inch wide yardage to make his tunics. I am still learning the right length for him, however. The tunics that go to the floor (or the knee) look very attractive on a large man. When constructing the garment, I find that I have to move his neck opening down his front an inch or so to adjust for his large shoulders. I also have to make sure that I make his arms are large enough to be comfortable, and not pull across his shoulders. (Rounding the tunic seam line under the arm works better than angling it. Does that make sense?) I'm still learning too, but I hope some of this helps. ~Meryld > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Abbott, Ruth > Sent: Thursday, January 28, 1999 1:35 PM > To: 'h-costume@indra.com' > Subject: H-COST: Garb for large men, additional > > > > -Poster: "Abbott, Ruth" > > I see that I should have made a few things clearer: I can understand > the suggestions to dress my husband like Henry VIII or in the less > flamboyant Tudor style, but in all honesty I am not going to go to that > much work on his behalf unless he asks me to. Or, I am at least going > to make some elaborate garb for myself first. I will mentally file the > idea away, though, even though simpler garb was what I had in mind. > > What I was mostly hoping for was those little tricks to deal with > fitting and such. Margo mentioned a few things about "disguising" > girth, but are there any techniques that would assure a good fit? For > example, I have considered whether adding gores to a T-tunic would make > sense, to allow for more room. It seems to me that the gores would have > to start quite high to be of help, since it's not a matter of wanting to > flair out at the hips as with a woman. Then they would just look silly > (I imagine) and likely draw the eye right to his middle. Also, is there > any way to include extra ease across the back, without distorting the > shapes of garments? These are the kinds of questions I am pondering. > > Alix > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 19:39:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04792 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:39:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA20885; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:39:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA15082 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:41:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA15061 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:40:55 -0700 (MST) From: CONNECT@aol.com Received: from CONNECT@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id NJZCa20554 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:26:30 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:26:30 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Question on Rayon Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: CONNECT@aol.com Good People, I'm planning on making some fighting pants for the SCA. I found a rayon/linen/lycra blend at my local Jo-Anns. I want linen because it soaks up sweat with ease. However, I have no idea how rayon treats sweat. Does it work like linen in that regard? I've been told that rayon is treated cellulose, and therefore technically a "natural" fiber. But I've never paid much attention to how it deals with moisture. Please help! Yours, Pattie Rayl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 19:39:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04796 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:39:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA21616; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:44:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA15892 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:46:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from onramp.i2k.com (root@onramp.i2k.com [207.75.224.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id RAA15885 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:46:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from raille(o7du21.i2k.com[198.110.185.21]) (1514 bytes) by onramp.i2k.com via sendmail with P:smtp/R:bind_dns/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:39:16 -0500 (EST) (Smail-3.2.0.99 1997-Dec-4 #30 built 1998-Oct-10) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990128195350.007ac4c0@onramp.i2k.com> X-Sender: alwen@onramp.i2k.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:53:50 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Lynn Carpenter Subject: RE: H-COST: Netting in the round? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Carpenter I got a "No DNS entry error" for www.fsbks.com. Could you share an ISBN number or other info for this book? Always ready to increase my netting library! Has anyone ever seen the netted edging (like on the website below) on clothing (or even dresser scarves)? Lynn "Hope H. Dunlap" wrote: >Thanks so much for the reference to the netting WebPages. They are fantastic! >The 1838 Workwoman's Guide, reprinted in facsimile by RL. Shep has a number of >patterns for netting, including the standard string bag, a lacy window curtain (which >looked super-easy, and sounded just beautiful in place), a hairnet, and several >fishnet doilies. It's available from many sources, including Amazon Drygoods, Fred >Struthers Books (www.fsbks.com). Lynn Carpenter wrote: >>And I can't make any post about netting without mentioning this beautiful and >>inspirational site, which also has instructions for circular netting: >>http://www.the-spa.com/bartholomew/netting/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 19:52:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04863 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:52:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA23032; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:54:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA17138 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:56:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA17127 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:56:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA25662 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:56:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B10745.A0BDF607@serv.net> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:56:37 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Question on Rayon References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True While not an expert by any means, I wouldn't be concerned about the rayon or linen, but I would wonder about the lycra. Even though 3% lycra isn't very much, it definitely effects absorbency and breathability. IMHO. > I'm planning on making some fighting pants for the SCA. I found a > rayon/linen/lycra blend at my local Jo-Anns. I want linen because it soaks up > sweat with ease. However, I have no idea how rayon treats sweat. Does it work > like linen in that regard? > > I've been told that rayon is treated cellulose, and therefore technically a > "natural" fiber. But I've never paid much attention to how it deals with > moisture. Please help! > > Yours, > Pattie Rayl > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 20:02:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA04931 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:02:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA25253; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:06:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA19088 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:08:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from VAX5.ACER.EDU.AU (vax5.acer.edu.au [203.2.133.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA19079 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:08:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from exchange.acer.edu.au ([203.2.133.26]) by vms.acer.edu.au (PMDF V5.1-12 #22802) with ESMTP id <01J74273LVO68WXKX5@vms.acer.edu.au> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:10:18 +1100 Received: by exchange.acer.edu.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:03:26 +1100 Content-return: allowed Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:03:20 +1100 From: Harvey Georgia Subject: Re: H-COST: Garb for large men, additional To: "'H-costume'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Harvey Georgia Alix posted: [snip] What I was mostly hoping for was those little tricks to deal with fitting and such. Margo mentioned a few things about "disguising" girth, but are there any techniques that would assure a good fit? For example, I have considered whether adding gores to a T-tunic would make sense, to allow for more room. It seems to me that the gores would have to start quite high to be of help, since it's not a matter of wanting to flair out at the hips as with a woman. Then they would just look silly (I imagine) and likely draw the eye right to his middle. Also, is there any way to include extra ease across the back, without distorting the shapes of garments? These are the kinds of questions I am pondering. Alix --- What about a shortened version of "the greenland dress"? My notes suggest that at knee length, with hose, this would be acceptable for men...You could certainly adjust the gores to fit. Georgia my 0.02 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 20:05:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA04956 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:05:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA17404; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA12066 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:20:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA12056 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:20:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.128]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id QAA21989; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:20:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id QAA12914; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:20:41 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAuAhUAtAm+Z2e9Eyiv21TFezdo4DBbRFwCFQDF1HfnGoLUobunLMo6nF9STFDnCg== From: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:20:41 -0700 (MST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 'dress'- What is it? Message-ID: <6050-36B0FED9-170@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: Merouda the True 's message of Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:50:54 -0800 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: starsinger@webtv.net (theresa sorrell) Could dress refer to a form of stiffening in order to weave the cloth. Sizing is used to stiffen warp on a loom. Starsiner _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 20:15:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA05006 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:15:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA16670; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:16:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA19991 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:13:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from shepards.com ([192.104.69.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id PAA19957 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:13:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from sneffels.shepards.com by shepards.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA05267; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:25:55 -0700 Received: by SNEFFELS with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:13:21 -0700 Message-ID: <5DA4C4BE65D9D111A6FC0060081FD218D39D4C@SNEFFELS> From: "Griggs, Margaret (SHEP)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Garb for large men, additional Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:13:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Griggs, Margaret (SHEP)" I've never gotten to sew for a gentleman who's middle didn't match or exceed his chest measurements. I did discover a couple of things that helped. For tunics, you can piece in extra gores starting at the underarm and expanding toward the hem. Same principle as setting them in at a woman's hips. Also, adding gussets at the underarms helps. Large diamond shaped pieces that allow extra movement both for the arm and the back and are not very noticeable during wear. Tunics can be cut so that the shoulders are a bit wider. When determining how wide to make the tunic, measure the front and back separately and cut them separately if necessary. The extra fabric will be where its needed and won't be in the way where its not. If you go for more fitted garments, look at tailoring books that tell you how to construct a modern man's jacket. They put additional padding in the chest area to prevent saggy areas and give the garment some body. I've made a number of fitted jackets for men, Tudor and something that resembles a ghawazii coat that I think is Turkish, and they never looked right until I discovered the padding. Doublets also need this principle. I've used 1/8" thick cotton quilt batting and laid it into an inner lining that wound up being quilted to death. You have to stagger the layers so you get a smooth transition and don't be afraid to add extra padding to one side that you don't need in the other. I think there's got to be an easier way so I'm looking for another tailoring book. Oh, the fitted doublet I did all this padding in wound up looking so good that the gentleman has requested all future jackets be padded! He actually had shoulders and a chest which made his middle look smaller! The end result looked a lot more like the paintings than any of the previous attempts. As for getting them to wear the waistband around their waist and not their hips, if you ever discover a method you'll probably make a fortune selling it. :) Does that help? Maggie margaret.griggs@shepards.com or Lyssa@kktv.com http://members.iex.net/~norseman/dragon.html http://members.iex.net/~norseman/outlands/outlands.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 20:18:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA05019 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:18:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA16053; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:13:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA10921 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:14:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA10851 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:14:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id QAA10535 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:11:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B0FC95.83E946D9@best.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:11:02 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: pricing question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press > As a costumer, I > frequently shop in consignment/used clothing, etc. shops. But the original > question was what should someone expect to pay for a one of a kind hand-made > dress. The price that Margo quoted of $300 was more than reasonable. There > is no question that an an evening wear/prom, etc., dress can be found for > less, but that isn't really the point. If someone wants to pay a seamstress > to make them a dress, they should expect to pay for what that kind of time, > care and creativity will provide. Ready-made wear on sale or used not- > withstanding. On the nonhistoric sewing groups, people who do custom dressmaking often complain about customers who expect quality custom-made garments to cost less than off-the-rack. My theory is, sewing is one of the activities that some people do as a hobby and some do professionally, and that people thinking about payment somewhat willfully confuse the two. I suspect way back in home ec, teachers told them, "Clothing is cheaper if you make it yourself." Well, it is (or at least you get better quality for your money)--but that's because you're putting in your labor/time instead of paying someone else for it. The same teachers told them, "Sewing is fun." Well, it wasn't for these customers, or they'd be making their own clothes instead of hiring a dressmaker. But they noticed that _some_ students thought it was fun and kept on sewing. So if your dressmaker is having so much fun, why pay them a lot in addition? To clinch the matter, everybody has known at least one loving mother who has made clothing for her children free, maybe well into adulthood--so after all, why shouldn't people sew free for casual acquaintances? Then, sewing is traditionally women's work. There's a long tradition of paying women less than men. And of assuming this is OK because of course they're really being supported by their husbands or fathers, right? Anyway, the solution repeatedly advocated by professional dressmakers is to point out to the customer, in detail, how they are getting a higher-quality, better-fitting garment, possibly a unique style they couldn't even buy off the rack. And furthermore, to make sure to behave very professionally in all respects. Apparently, although some customers do just go away, it is possible to educate others and get appropriately paid by them. Also, some people who just sew for themselves as a hobby say they are sometimes asked by coworkers, casual acquaintances, etc. to sew for them free. The best suggestion I heard is, one woman said she kept a supply of business cards for a friend who was a professional dressmaker. Whenever someone asked her for free sewing, she'd hand them her friend's card. Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 21:12:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05356 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:12:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA06786; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:17:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA27598 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:19:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA27582 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:19:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust9.tnt3.sfo3.da.uu.net [153.37.9.9]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01531 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:19:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B11B80.6686994A@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:22:57 -0800 From: Christina Conklin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: best sources for fabulous historic cloth? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christina Conklin The whole 'cloth of gold' thread got me thinking. . . . What are people's favorite places to get REALLY GOOD historic fabrics? Internet, direct mail, overseas, local shops, whatever. . . . I'm interested in all of the above! Are there any sources for authentic reproduction fabrics out there or do people use fabrics that are close-enough, but lacking provenance? I'm new to this list, so please pardon my ignorance if this is a Historic Costume 101 question! Thanks, Christy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 21:14:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05366 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:14:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA06959; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:19:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA27851 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:21:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA27827 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:21:49 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id RXSHa00804 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:21:02 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:21:02 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: cloth-of-gold: fakin' it Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com Katya-- Actually, the cloth of gold was stiff, not like the chiffon-like stuff you see today. It looked to be scratchy (it was either under glass or hanging on the wall and not able to be touched of course) rather than soft and drapey. But it sure was gorgeous. And it was woven just as you described. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 21:34:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05470 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:34:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA10060; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:38:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA00384 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:40:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA00368 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:40:47 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id DSANa03482 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:34:47 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:34:47 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: cloth-of-gold: fakin' it Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com It makes lovely sleeves, veils, sashes -- I've seen it in an Ottoman Empire context, remember. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 21:36:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05498 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:36:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA10337; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA00706 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:43:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA00687 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:43:06 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id COFOa07010 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:38:55 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:38:55 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 'dress'- What is it? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com Perhaps sizing of some sort. I've breoken needles on fabric stiff with sizing (it wouldn't come out). Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 21:42:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05552 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:42:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA11552; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:47:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA01353 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:49:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA01339 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:49:05 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id THDZa19752 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:27:13 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:27:13 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: CC17 touristy stuff Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com Tell him to get a Whole Costumer's Catalogue, then hie himself to New York City, a short drive away, and run through the NYC entries. He'll never make it to LA. I will be at CostumeCon (one of the judges for the historical masquerade). Tell him to drop by and say hello. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 21:53:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05615 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:53:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA13440; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:59:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA02882 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:01:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA02863 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:01:09 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 9KMTa03539 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:51:55 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:51:55 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Question on Rayon Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com Rayon can do terrible things when it gets wet. I'd be careful. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 22:07:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05691 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:06:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA15230; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:11:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA04417 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:13:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA04401 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:13:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from vaxxine.com (ppp61.analg-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.212.159]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA02043 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:13:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36B115C6.BFA5140A@vaxxine.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:58:30 -0600 From: Sheridan Alder X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1830s dress belts References: <5b5c1a75.36b09043@aol.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------DADB4D000B5123FF5420C48F" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sheridan Alder --------------DADB4D000B5123FF5420C48F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Loren: As it happens, my husband gave me a silly and totally unnecessary, (but rather sweet and thoughtful) Christmas present of "The Ladies Cabinet of Fashion, Music & Romance, Vol. IX, 1836. from January to June, inclusive. The term "ceinture" seems to be used interchangeably for both sashes and the waistline in general. Generally, the "walking dresses" have self-fabric or contrasting waistbands while the evening and ball dresses just have a waist seam, which isn't surprising since their bodices are either pointed or rounded. In January "Paris Fashions for the Month" the waist is described being "rather long, rounded in front, and without a ceinture" (also mentions a very rich satin - a "triple satin" - I want some!) However there is an illustration of an evening dress, white satin with rose ribbons "in the stomacher fashion" with a final plain band around the waist. February illustrates a pelisse with a plain waistband of the same fabric- it appears to open n the side. A rose dinner dress with a "Ceinture of broad rose satin ribbon, richly fringed" - it's a sash in the same fabric or colour, tied with a small, neat bow. A purple walking dress in May seems to have a self-fabric belt with a matching buckle (between the gigantic sleeves and a shawl it's hard to tell) about 2 1/2 to 3 inches wide. A morning visiting dress in white includes a pink sash which appears to be wrapped all round, and to the front again, with a small neat bow and the ends short - maybe four inches long. A grey and pink carriage dress in June shows an identical waist treatment. A May morning dress in purple (Hey! any period that liked purple so much can't be all bad!) also has a about four inches wide purple ribbon sash, tied in a small bow again, but with ends of the sash reaching to at least the knee. A "dust-coloured" (looks pale green to me!) morning visiting dress features yet another belt with a really narrow buckle, more vertical than horizontal, as does an emerald green promenade dress. In 1836 (in this source at least) - quite wide belts (or possibly waistbands) with very narrow buckles, or else sashes tied in bows with either very short, or very long ends. The text doesn't mention what was going on around the waist much - much more fascinated by what direction the outrageous sleeves would explode in next! Hope this helps a bit. My husband just gave me a dig - "I see you're using that book you said I shouldn't have bought you" Maybe I'll admit he's right - later! Sheridan --------------DADB4D000B5123FF5420C48F Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Loren:

As it happens, my husband gave me a silly and totally unnecessary,
(but rather sweet and thoughtful) Christmas present of "The Ladies
Cabinet of Fashion, Music & Romance, Vol. IX, 1836.
from January to June, inclusive.

The term "ceinture" seems to be used interchangeably for both
sashes and the waistline in general. Generally, the "walking
dresses" have self-fabric or contrasting waistbands while the
evening and  ball dresses just have a waist seam, which isn't surprising
since their bodices are either pointed or rounded. In January  "Paris
Fashions for the Month"  the waist is described being "rather long,
rounded in front, and without a ceinture" (also mentions a very rich satin
- a "triple satin" - I want some!) However there is an illustration of an
evening dress, white satin with rose ribbons "in the stomacher fashion"
with a final plain band around the waist. February illustrates a pelisse
with a plain waistband of the same fabric- it appears to open n the side.
A rose dinner dress with a "Ceinture of broad rose satin ribbon, richly
fringed" - it's a sash in the same fabric or colour, tied with a small, neat bow.

A purple walking dress in May seems to have a self-fabric belt
with a matching buckle (between the gigantic sleeves and a
shawl it's hard to tell) about 2 1/2 to 3 inches wide. A morning
visiting dress in white includes a pink sash which appears to be
wrapped all round, and to the front again, with a small neat
bow and the ends short - maybe four inches long. A grey and
pink carriage dress in June shows an identical waist treatment.
A May morning dress in purple (Hey! any period that liked purple so
much can't be all bad!) also has a about four inches wide purple
ribbon sash, tied in a small bow again, but with ends of the sash
reaching to at least the knee. A "dust-coloured" (looks pale green
to me!) morning visiting dress features yet another belt with a really
narrow buckle, more vertical than horizontal, as does an emerald green
promenade dress.

In 1836 (in this source at least) - quite wide belts (or possibly waistbands)
with very narrow buckles, or else sashes tied in bows with either very short,
or very long ends.

The text doesn't mention what was going on around the waist much -
much more fascinated by what direction the outrageous sleeves would
explode in next!

Hope this helps a bit. My husband just gave me a dig - "I see you're
using that book you said I shouldn't have bought you" Maybe I'll
admit he's right - later!

Sheridan
  --------------DADB4D000B5123FF5420C48F-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 22:52:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06017 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:52:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA23290; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:56:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA09563 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:59:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA09550 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:59:04 -0700 (MST) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DZ4RQRDP; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:58:15 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:30:48 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: Lasting cloth Message-ID: <19990128.214507.13374.0.seamstrix@juno.com> References: <199901281859.KAA12474@zeus.directcon.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-8,10-31 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com It was my understanding that 'jeans' were called such because another name for 'serge de Nimes' was 'de Genoa' which got shortened and bastardized to 'jean'. That makes more sense than the sailors named Jean story, but I still don't know if it's true. Karen On Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:59:54 -0800 (PST) Margo Anderson writes: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > > Jean cloth was commonly used by the Confederate army, as well as by >the >Union army >>and civilians for work clothes. >> >Now, is "jean cloth" denim, or is there some other reason they're >called >"jeans"? I've heard the rumor that they got the name by being worn by >French sailors, many of whom were named Jean, but it sounds like a >costume >myth to me. Anyone? > >Margo > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 22:56:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06051 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:56:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA23767; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:01:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA10067 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:03:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from swiss.direct.ca (swiss.direct.ca [199.60.229.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA10055 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:03:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from [216.66.128.210] (helo=jesa) by swiss.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10659S-0004yu-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:03:27 -0800 From: "Janis James" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 'dress'- What is it? Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:04:47 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Janis James" Hello Folks: "Dress" IS sizing. Before 1962-65 it was purely natural vegetable starchs. In varying strengths to help support the fibres of the cloth. eg: More for limp fabric, etc. During the 1960's certain chemicals were experimented with to see which would give the same effects to fabrics but be cheaper to use, less noticeable to the customer, etc. In our rampant chemical oriented society of today, "dressing" or sizing is almost totally of man-made chemicals. Very harsh for the fabrics and certainly for our water system and our skin. But...for the manufacturer the bottom line is the most important and often customers are completely fooled now with what appears to be a perfect fabric (until it is washed once). I for one, am also allergic to most of these chemicals and it plays havoc with my hands. I try to bring my fabrics directly to the washing machine from the shopping bags. (-been in the "fabric" business for over 20 years now and know all the games!!) For the fabric mentioned in the first question - the flannel would be quite different after washing - but likely would have been much softer and thinking of the 1930's fabrics - it would have become quite lovely. Regards, Janis _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 23:53:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA06390 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:53:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA00880; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:58:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA16034 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:00:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from jack.direct.ca (jack.direct.ca [199.60.229.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA16020 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:00:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from kam-53-0242.direct.ca ([216.66.147.138] helo=jesa) by jack.direct.ca with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #21) id 10662K-0001Li-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:00:09 -0800 From: "Janis James" To: Subject: H-COST: Garb for large men, addit.(long) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:01:25 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Janis James" Dear Alix and other's interested: I have been costuming "extra-large" men for over 15 years now. Professionally in theatre and the SCA. The most important thing to consider for the costumes is comfort. I have found that if men are comfortable then they will agree to wear most things. Keeping the proportion correct will help with comfort. Cut larger, fuller back yolks than front yolks - even with the larger tummy. Fullness through the back means less fabric straining through the stomach. Definately make the tunics longer. At least lower-thigh to the knee. Tunics that end just below the natural waist make a larger stomached man look stumpy and they will be continually twitching with the tunic and their belt. Triangular shaped gussets in the immediate underarm seam help, but I have always found that unnecessary if I have allowed enough fullness in the upper arm of the tunic and if the underarm seam is cut in a full curve. Run a panel of a different fabric under the arm from sleeve hem to tunic hem. This will be a straight piece of fabric usually 4 to 6 inches wide throughout. It can be the same colour/type of fabric or totally different. The front and back silouette will be greatly enhanced and this was a very "medieval" thing to do - as clothing was valuable and often handed-down. A bequeathment of a tunic of a small man to a large man meant something had to be done and strips of fabric could be run along the underarm seam to add size and another band could be run along the bottom to add length. Very "correct" and very easy. For the large man of today - it adds fullness and ease in arm movement without adding bulk in the shoulders. Watch your necklines. Wide open necklines are uncomfortable on the larger man and will not help with his proportioning. Tunics will slide on each other and not fit well. It is better to have a smaller neckline with a small slit and a button or penanular pin closure. Deer horn buttons are wonderful for this and I have often solved the neck problem with a slit opening at the neck on each shoulder which allows me to build more fabric into the back of the tunic at the shoulders. Unless you wish to go "later-period" - I would not recommend putting too many gores in the side seams. It would be quite correct to start them from the actual under- arm seam, (if you use them) but that will usually cause great fullness at the hem. This gives a very "gathered" effect and the straighter sillouette is far more flattering - and the gentleman won't be bothered with wondering where all that hem fabric is getting to - like still being tucked into his pants - without his knowing!!! etc. Ladies cannot always be around to "twitch" the tunic straight for him. One narrower gore on each side with no more than 6 - 8 inches at the hem is fine. Keeping the belts at the waist is good - but usually isn't their fault - with the big tummy the belt just seems to slip under it. If there is enough fullness in the tunic through the stomach section to pull a little of the tunic up through the belt to fall over it - then you have achieved even more comfort and less pull on the arms too. Try to keep the sleeve of the "overtunic" about elbow length and reasonably full as this will not pull on the underarm section and cause puckers. Undertunics made in softer more stretchable fabrics will be more comfortable for larger men and will not allow as many puckers in the underarms. Linen (if well washed and soft) will also act the same way and is very, very comfortable and lasts forever. Wool overtunics are wonderful in the cooler weather and it is quite "correct" to have very finely woven and delicate woolen fabrics. Try to avoid "broadcloth" if at all possible. We all have some "throw-on" tunics, but in the long run, they do not drape as well, are certainly not as comfortable. Polyester in the cotton will cause perspiration and usually I find broadcloth wrinkles and becomes very limp. Try to look for fabrics with drape and body. I highly recommend Celtic, Norse, Byzantine and Middle Eastern costuming for the larger man. They give a wide range of styles - all adaptable for embellishing - as you wish and get more into the costuming for him and again, most importantly, they are all very, very comfortable. I hope some of these suggestions help. I would be happy to help more if needed. Janis (HL Sine) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Jan 28 23:59:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA06420 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:59:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA01213; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:00:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA16270 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:03:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA16249 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:03:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip253.an5-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.16.253]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA28041 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:02:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B133AB.B1E91FC9@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:06:05 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 'dress'- What is it? References: <199901280611.XAA11591@indra.com> <36B045CE.50A7@earthlink.net> <36B0B18C.1FAB8342@serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson > > > > " Ulrica Doyle sat in class sewing her hopes and fears into a calico > > nightdress. The material was harsh with 'dress', her needle- the second > > one that morning, for she had broken the first... was too fine for this > > type of work." > > > > Anybody out there have a clue what the author means by "'dress'"? > > According to the OED, dress can mean any kind of finish, and they give the specific example of "the stiffening of fabric with starch, glue, size, or the like." Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 00:14:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA07114 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:14:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA02605; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:13:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA17398 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:15:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA17378 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:15:18 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id VLTUa07784 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:14:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3772753.36b143b8@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:14:32 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Shinrone Gown, Lacing, Nakedness, and Green Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/26/99 6:32:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, hhdunlap@email.msn.com writes: > > Luke Gernon's "Discourses," on the state of Dublin in 1620, > "The women of Ireland are comely creatures, tall, slender, > and upright. Of complexion, very fayre and cleare-skinned > (but freckled) with tresses of bright yellow hayre, which > they chain up in curious knots and devises. They are not > straight-laced or plated in their youth, but suffered to > grow at liberty so that you shall hardly see one crooked or > deformed . . . " Great quotes, and thank you for this one in particular. Back when this was my speciality, I was not as conscientious a researcher, and I have lots of notes without proper citations (or any, in some cases.) This one tells me that perhaps Irish girls dressed their hair rather elaborately, but perhaps weren't into the compulsive hat/veil/head cloth restriction we're used to elsewhere at the same time. Unhappily, it's the only source I've found to suggest it. How about the one from 1780 (?) wherein the author cites his aged granny who told him that when she was young, her grandmother's gown had a train so long she had to have a page to bear it up. I can't for the life of me find that one. Does it sound at all familiar? Of the shinrone gown, I quite agree, that if it could be handled, it would lace up in a perfectly ordinary way, and the keyhole opening doesn't need to mean anything except incorrect display. In my experience, any fitted, front laced gown, when just sitting on the mannikin, looks like it will NEVER close up, but it does. The few Irish pictures we have do look like that dress, laced closed. Incidentally, There's a painting by Piero della Francesco called "Madonna del Parto" that shows a similar gown closed at the neckline, but open or loose from below the bust to maybe 10 inches below the waist. After that, the center front seam is closed again. Sort of like the Shinrone. Of nakedness, well, there is that story of a Bohemian tourist visiting "The O'Kane" being welcomed in by the daughters of the house who he calls "all naked". But the rest of the paragraph sure makes it sound as if they are naked but for their shift. Maybe it's a translation problem? Ah well, enough rambling. As I say, it's no longer really my speciality, just a continuing interest. MaggiRos Mairghread-Ros FitzGarret of Desmond, and so on. ~all my men wear a sword, or they wear nothing at all _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 00:22:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA07162 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:22:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA03631; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:19:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA17977 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:22:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail3.sirius.com (mail3.sirius.com [205.134.253.133]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA17969 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:22:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.134.245.134] (ppp-asok07--134.sirius.net [205.134.245.134]) by mail3.sirius.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA14617 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:22:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901290522.VAA14617@mail3.sirius.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: 1830s dress belts Date: Thu, 28 Jan 99 21:21:21 -0800 x-sender: haggis@pop.sirius.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Pelikan To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Pelikan > Everything's going fine but I'm having >some difficulty with the belt, that is in none of the fashion plates of the >period am I able to see whether or not the belt is of self fabric. And the >actual photos I've seen of existing dresses don't seem to have belts. Were >belts not really worn all that often in real life? And if they were were >they >self fabric or something else? I've looked thru my whole library on this and >have come up empty handed. Thanks for any and all tips. When I was in Scotland I picked up a wonderful book called,_The Rise and Fall of The Sleeve, 1825-1840, by Naomi Tarrant. It is full of photos of 1830s dresses. There are a lot of belts shown on dresses and most of them are of the same fabric as the dress. Those that are not of the same fabric generally are of a color to match the background of the printed dress fabric. Nadine _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 00:30:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA07206 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:30:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA05535; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:34:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA19088 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:36:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA19079 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:36:28 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id OROAa00804 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:35:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <497effd9.36b148ba@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:35:54 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Anatomie of Abuses? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/28/99 4:36:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, kathleen@niagara.com writes: > > From what I understand, Philip Stubbes was just an intellectual (dropped out > of two universities) with puritanical leanings and a taste for spouting off. > His brother was the actual church man. I'm only aware of him being referred to as a Puritan preacher. Not a minister, a preacher. Any puritan on a streetcorner could preach, and often did. Many dissenters had no formal "authority", and acknowleged no one's ability to grant them one, except God. But yes, he is a wonderul resource. Just use him, or any single source, wisely. MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 00:39:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA07249 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:39:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA07029; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:44:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA20064 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:46:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA20051 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:46:25 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id NEYHa27784 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:45:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:45:33 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Garb for large men, additional Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/28/99 1:30:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, r-abbott@oar- xch1.oar.uiuc.edu writes: > > What I was mostly hoping for was those little tricks to deal with > fitting and such. Margo mentioned a few things about "disguising" > girth, but are there any techniques that would assure a good fit? Well, there's no way to hide the fact that he's a big guy. How about a grand Burgundian houpelande? Cut it full from the shoulders, so it falls in wonderful drapes of wool or velvet. Wide sleeves with interesting dags. I used to live with a man built along such lines, and he always looked wonderful in that style. After that, look at the early-middle 16th century Germans. You can emulate the Henry VIII style without having to do Henry VIII. A coat with bases makes a manly man look just that much more manly. Yes, make sure the waist is at his real waist,--where he normally wears his sword belt, not were he wears his jeans. Anything longer waisted winds up looking silly. In any case, don't try to hide his size. Revel in it! :-) MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 00:47:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA07290 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:46:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA08071; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:50:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA20731 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:53:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA20725 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:53:03 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id KNBNa04317 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:52:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:52:18 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Lasting cloth Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com But the French name "Jean" is pronounced "zhawn" and likely to be mispronounced "john" and Genoa is pronounced JEN-oh-a or sometimes jen-OH-a. Neither one works out to "jean", unless the only source for the word was in writing. And somehow i don't think that's how all those miners and cowboys came to call them jeans. On the other hand, I can't offer a better answer. MaggiRos In a message dated 1/28/99 8:01:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, seamstrix@juno.com writes: > > It was my understanding that 'jeans' were called such because another > name for 'serge de Nimes' was 'de Genoa' which got shortened and > bastardized to 'jean'. That makes more sense than the sailors named Jean > story, but I still don't know if it's true. > > > Karen > > > On Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:59:54 -0800 (PST) Margo Anderson > writes: > > > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > > > > Jean cloth was commonly used by the Confederate army, as well as by > >the > >Union army > >>and civilians for work clothes. > >> > >Now, is "jean cloth" denim, or is there some other reason they're > >called > >"jeans"? I've heard the rumor that they got the name by being worn by > >French sailors, many of whom were named Jean, but it sounds like a > >costume > >myth to me. Anyone? > > > >Margo > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 01:00:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA07360 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:00:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA08811; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:56:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA21169 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:58:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA21163 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:58:32 -0700 (MST) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id IOIBa20087 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:57:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4795ebc2.36b14dc2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:57:22 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: fabric sources Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com I'm lucky enough to have G Street fabrics close by and they've got just about anything I could want (except maybe cloth of gold). In addition to the super expensive silk taffetas/velvets they have I've lately mined the quilting section. Many good fabric stores, including G Street, have reproductions of historic cottons in the quilting section. P&B textiles has several lines of reproductions cottons out including one line from the Oakland Museum in CA based on the gold rush, and one from the DAR museum in DC from the 1780s-1830s. There are a bunch of other companies out there doing this too. To see a bunch of these patterns online visit http://www.patchworks-usa.com/ Hope this helps. Cheers Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 01:04:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA07550 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:04:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA09629; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:03:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA21687 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:06:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA21670 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:05:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.90 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:05:28 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Rullions Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:08:37 -0500 Message-ID: <000701be4b4e$072eea40$7517ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Rullions are to the Scots what pampooties are to the Irish. It is footwear made of untanned leather, fur (usually) remaining on the outside, a single thickness of skin, gathered up around the edge with a sinew which allows it to conform to the foot. The lines vary somewhat from place to place, but it's basically a bag tied over the foot, sometimes cut low, just to cover the toes, sometimes with an integral vamp sewn across, and sometimes gathered up to the ankle. The footgear is very ancient, said to be worn all over Northern Europe prior to the influx of the Romans, and still seen in the 20th Century in remote islands off the northern coast of Ireland. Examples survive from Iceland. References found in Doreen Yarwood's Dictionary of Fashion with several drawings, Mairead Dunlevy's Dress in Ireland with illustrations of various kinds, and many quotations from writers over a very long time frame in John Tefler Dunbar's History of Highland Dress, 1962, Oliver and Boyd, Edinburgh and London, ie. John Elder's proposal of 1542 to Henry VIII to join Scotland and England, now in the British Museum: "And agayne in wyntre when the froest is most vehement (as I have saide) which we cannot suffir bair footide, so weill as snow, .... we go ahuntynge, and after that we have slayne redd deir, we flaye of the skyne, bey and bey, and setting our bair foote on the inside therof, for neide of cunnynge shoemakers, by your Grace's pardon, we play the sutters; compasinge and mesuringe so moche therof, as shall retche up to our anklers, pryckynge the upper part therof also with holis, that the water may repas where it entris, and stretchide up with a strong twange of the same, meitand above our said anklers, so, and please your noble Grace, we make our shoois: Therefor we usinge suche maner of shoois, the roghe hairie syde outwart, in your Grace's dominion of England we be callit roghefootide Scottis...." He goes on to assure the King that the Scottish nobles all have fine clothes of velvet and silk, which they would of course wear to Court to honor him in the appropriate manner, leaving their furry booties at home. See also Richard James (1592-1638) account right before 1618 of his travels to Scotland in the Bodlian Library, "rawhide shoes with the hair side outwards." Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 01:43:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA07785 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:43:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA13546; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:47:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA24793 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:50:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA24787 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:50:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.31.206 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:49:49 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Netting in the round? Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:52:34 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01be4b54$399bcb00$7517ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990128195350.007ac4c0@onramp.i2k.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Sorry about that.... the correct URL for RL Shep's books at Fred Struthers is http://www.mcn.org/e/fsbks/HTML/fred.htm. http://www.amazon.com may carry it, too, as I got an RL Shep book from there recently. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Lynn Carpenter Sent: Thursday, January 28, 1999 7:54 PM To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Netting in the round? -Poster: Lynn Carpenter I got a "No DNS entry error" for www.fsbks.com. Could you share an ISBN number or other info for this book? Always ready to increase my netting library! Has anyone ever seen the netted edging (like on the website below) on clothing (or even dresser scarves)? Lynn "Hope H. Dunlap" wrote: >Thanks so much for the reference to the netting WebPages. They are fantastic! >The 1838 Workwoman's Guide, reprinted in facsimile by RL. Shep has a number of >patterns for netting, including the standard string bag, a lacy window curtain (which >looked super-easy, and sounded just beautiful in place), a hairnet, and several >fishnet doilies. It's available from many sources, including Amazon Drygoods, Fred >Struthers Books (www.fsbks.com). Lynn Carpenter wrote: >>And I can't make any post about netting without mentioning this beautiful and >>inspirational site, which also has instructions for circular netting: >>http://www.the-spa.com/bartholomew/netting/ ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 01:43:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA07787 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:43:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA13491; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:47:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA24763 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:50:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA24757 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:49:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.31.206 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:49:30 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Shinrone Gown, Lacing, Nakedness, and Green Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:30:28 -0500 Message-ID: <000a01be4b54$2cc69360$7517ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <3772753.36b143b8@aol.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Qick response, I'm off to sleep....the references to married and unmarried Irish women wearing their hair loose and uncombed are numerous in the sources I mentioned. It probably refers to the "wild Irish," as De Heere's paintings of the Middle class and written accounts speak of a cloth head wrap of sorts, and the upper class are painted more English, but maybe not so covered even. It's really critical to keep the class distinctions in mind. I hadn't come across the bohemian tourist quote before, but from the looks of it, the gals have their underlinen on. That was common under the cape, and a step up on the economic scale from the wild Irish, who hunted and fished, didn't grow or weave as near as I can make out. The wild Irish and the destitute were the naked ones, and if they had their druthers, they probably wouldn't be. . . . Regarding the train, it was probably a court gown. I read about one wedding gown train that required six pages to carry it. They were worn for a few minutes in the Irish Court in Dublin prior to its demise in about 1800, and then shed as quickly as possible for dancing and dinner. There are period accounts complaining of the expense of embroidering them and all that fabric, when they were so impractical and worn for so brief a time. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of MaggiRos@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 29, 1999 12:15 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Shinrone Gown, Lacing, Nakedness, and Green -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/26/99 6:32:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, hhdunlap@email.msn.com writes: > > Luke Gernon's "Discourses," on the state of Dublin in 1620, > "The women of Ireland are comely creatures, tall, slender, > and upright. Of complexion, very fayre and cleare-skinned > (but freckled) with tresses of bright yellow hayre, which > they chain up in curious knots and devises. They are not > straight-laced or plated in their youth, but suffered to > grow at liberty so that you shall hardly see one crooked or > deformed . . . " Great quotes, and thank you for this one in particular. Back when this was my speciality, I was not as conscientious a researcher, and I have lots of notes without proper citations (or any, in some cases.) This one tells me that perhaps Irish girls dressed their hair rather elaborately, but perhaps weren't into the compulsive hat/veil/head cloth restriction we're used to elsewhere at the same time. Unhappily, it's the only source I've found to suggest it. How about the one from 1780 (?) wherein the author cites his aged granny who told him that when she was young, her grandmother's gown had a train so long she had to have a page to bear it up. I can't for the life of me find that one. Does it sound at all familiar? Of the shinrone gown, I quite agree, that if it could be handled, it would lace up in a perfectly ordinary way, and the keyhole opening doesn't need to mean anything except incorrect display. In my experience, any fitted, front laced gown, when just sitting on the mannikin, looks like it will NEVER close up, but it does. The few Irish pictures we have do look like that dress, laced closed. Incidentally, There's a painting by Piero della Francesco called "Madonna del Parto" that shows a similar gown closed at the neckline, but open or loose from below the bust to maybe 10 inches below the waist. After that, the center front seam is closed again. Sort of like the Shinrone. Of nakedness, well, there is that story of a Bohemian tourist visiting "The O'Kane" being welcomed in by the daughters of the house who he calls "all naked". But the rest of the paragraph sure makes it sound as if they are naked but for their shift. Maybe it's a translation problem? Ah well, enough rambling. As I say, it's no longer really my speciality, just a continuing interest. MaggiRos Mairghread-Ros FitzGarret of Desmond, and so on. ~all my men wear a sword, or they wear nothing at all ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 04:39:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA14389 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:39:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA22750; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:43:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA03555 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:46:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.42]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA03550 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:46:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from LOCALNAME ([12.66.4.90]) by mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990129094553.CEEP18214@LOCALNAME> for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:45:53 +0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Connie Carroll" Organization: Home For Deranged Bunnies To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:44:07 +0000 Subject: Re: H-COST: CC17 touristy stuff Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.30) Message-Id: <19990129094553.CEEP18214@LOCALNAME> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Connie Carroll" Where do you get the Whole Costumer's Catalogue?? Kassandra NickKraken > -Poster: Appin1@aol.com > > Tell him to get a Whole Costumer's Catalogue, then hie himself to > New York City, a short drive away, and run through the NYC entries. > He'll never make it to LA. > > I will be at CostumeCon (one of the judges for the historical > masquerade). Tell him to drop by and say hello. > > Kathleen Norvell JUST CALL ME MISTRESS BUNNY _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 05:25:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA14659 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:25:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA24454; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:29:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA28622 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:32:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA28285 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:31:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA20758.; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:35:10 GMT Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:31:20 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:30:42 +0000 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Jean (was Lasting cloth) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id FAA14659 Status: O -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" According to the OED, "jene" (various spellings) is a very old English name for Genoa, and the fabric was originally called "jene fustian". The references to it go back to the 16th century. The use of "jeans" for garments of it is 19th cent. Out of curiosity, I also looked up "naked", and the OED confirmed my suspicion that it can occasionally mean "in one's underwear". A quotation from the 1760s refers to "many naked people, some in shirts or shifts and some without either" oe words to that effect. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 06:00:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA14825 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:00:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA25696; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:04:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA16997 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:06:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE (mail.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE [130.149.4.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA16631 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:06:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from coal.bg.tu-berlin.de by mail.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE with SMTP (IC-PP); Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:06:34 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990129120700.00944160@130.149.12.212> X-Sender: barbara@130.149.12.212 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:07:00 +0100 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Barbara Maren Winkler Subject: Re: H-COST: Menswear - yet another theory In-Reply-To: <199901261900.MAA05333@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Barbara Maren Winkler >- -Poster: Sheridan Alder [longish, trying to parapharase]: The theory is that higher-class people started to choose more subtle clothing (in the early 1800s) to distinguish themselves from adorned "upstarts". >What better way to signal your real class... than to affect exquisitely and subtly tailored >garments that only those "in the know"- ... could recognize?. Backed up by the contemporary phenomenon that business dress tends to be less colourful, less adorned, more conservative, but exquisitely tailored (if affordable). >A modern example - ... Professional women dressed more >conservatively in quiet understated suits and dresses. .... > >So people are still signaling status like crazy- the cues are just more subtle - The social theory of civilization founded by Norbert Elias (1939: The Process of Civilization) argues that civilization is a process in which personal physical urges are getting more and more controlled, first by society through sanctions, later by the individual self through sublimation. By this theory, societies which exist a long time undisruptedly have an innate tendency toward "civilization" by the drive of individuals to move upward in society, for which self-control proves ultimately most successful. Elias finds many little proofs of this "increasing control of drives and urges" in the change of customs towards ever greater "civility". I just find that the trend towards more "somber" men's dress makes sense in the light of this theory. Assuming that the wish to dress colourfully and adorn oneself is a "drive" (even though a secondary one). (It's fun, isn't it.) So, dressing sparsely is a kind of self-control. Where is there more need for self-control in order to be successful than in the business world? When did the business world take over major social power, and when did men in large numbers move out into the business world? With the industrial revolution = 18th-19th century. Why did women's fashion stay ornate and colourful? For a long time, they were not regularly going into business like men, they weren't even supposed to. Note that it was also often assumed that women had less self-control. And who is wearing suits nowadays? The theory has been criticized because it seems to put a euphoric emphasis on modernity ("everything's getting better and better") which some people reject. It would be nice not to have to get into _this_ argument here.... Barbara Maren -- Barbara Maren Winkler barbara@math.tu-berlin.de _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 07:13:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA15240 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:13:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA29397; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:18:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA08463 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:21:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from scorpion.netspace.net.au (scorpion.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.106]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA08382 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:19:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by scorpion.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id XAA26315 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:19:44 +1100 (EST) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t1-255.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.251.1]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id XAA06186 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:20:32 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199901291220.XAA06186@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 'dress'- What is it? Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:21:24 +1100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" The word dress can also be applied to a more delecate subject in men's trousers - a good tailor will ask whether you dress to the left or the right, that is, does the penis usually sit to one side or the other, and will cut the trousers accordingly (this is a very brief (ahem) description but should give the idea. -C. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 09:01:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15855 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:01:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA06895; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:06:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA14823 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:08:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA14806 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:08:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.170] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 106EbC-0005c6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:08:42 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:09:19 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: H-COST: [H-Costume] Lockram -- What was it's use? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" My friend, deep in his thesis, has a question I do not know the answer for, so I refer it to you all: Here's one for you: what was lockram used for? It was a linen cloth, and it was imported to Lyme Regis in the mid-17th century in large quantities. Lyme was a spinning and weaving town, and its two main imports were raw wool and lockram ... I'm thinking that lockram was a lining fabric, and that they're producing some finished garments (which don't show up in port records because, unlike wool and lockram, they're not subject to customs). Aryk If you have the answer, please write to me privately, with the sources for your info., if there are any, and I will be very pleased to send them to Aryk. I know he w/b most grateful. Thank you for your time, the bandwidth & your aid. Carol J. Bell Cannon _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 09:06:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15883 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:06:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA07357; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:11:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA15287 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:13:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA15272 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:13:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip193.denver23.co.pub-ip.psi.net [38.31.5.193]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA05973 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:13:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B1C329.40B96FFF@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:18:17 -0700 From: Mary Denise Smith Organization: Costume & Dressmaker Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Question on Rayon References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mary Denise Smith Hello List, A clarification on rayon is needed. There are two basic types of rayon, acetate and viscose. Acetate is the nasty shiny stuff that is often quite cheap and commonly used as linings. It is not dyefast, underarm sweat stains it and it will go to shreds in the washer. True, it is reprocessed cellulose, but it is SO processed that it is only barely cellulose anymore. Viscose is also reprocessed cellulose, but it retains the hand and other qualities of cotton. Soft, drapey, wrinkles but the wrinkles fall out in humid weather (makes for good wearing in climates east of the Colorado/Kansas border), takes dyes dramatically. It absorbs water easily (hence the easy shedding of wrinkles). Depending on the quality of the spinning/weaving, it can pill and look shabby. Good quality viscose rayon is an absolute delight. Poor quality is a pain in the butt. Hope this helps, Mary Denise Smith _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 09:11:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15914 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:11:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA07775; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:16:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA15770 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA15758 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:18:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a11.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.139]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA08991 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:19:00 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36B1C350.FF47437@nash.tds.net> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:18:56 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Garb for large men, additional References: <6BAA9E7DB36AD2118FA60060943F1CAF1466C9@oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat I 'inherited' a tunic from a friend that was made for a large man and both fit and looked good on him. It was in two pieces (probably due to fabric constraints). The top had elbow length sleeves and it had a v-neck, both trimmed in a very wide, very bold trim. It laced on both sides to the waist (handy for someone who changes size frequently). The skirt was very, very full...if you have the Holkeboer book it was similar to that of the Romanesque tunic on page 54...iow from the waist the tunic goes straight out for just over half of the overall length of the tunic and then begins a semicircle down to the bottom of the circle. On this particular tunic the side seam was left open as the gentleman in question always wore a shirt or braes under it and spending most of his time in the kitchen he needed something with side ventilation. I've seen other large men wearing this style of tunic and it seems to me that it both looks good and is more comfortable than some of the other styles. And if you lace it at the sides it is much more adjustable. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 09:34:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16019 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:34:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA09898; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:38:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA18106 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:41:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA18098 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:41:15 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id WJBBa05309 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:40:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <71608674.36b1c866@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:40:38 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Lasting cloth Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Gotta love the costume myths! Although this truth is just as interesting to me. It teaches world textile flow and geography at the same time. Jeans were a fustian (a broad range of cheap textiles) from Genoa, Italy. Many 18th century textile names indicated the towns of origin, i.e. jeans from Genoa, holmes from Ulm, Germany. It was a naming system that worked for them. The one I love is 'holland' which was high quality, bleached linen. So much fine linen was sent to the bleaching fields in Holland that 'holland' became the commonly used term like calling Kleenex (the brand name) for tissues (the generic name). Sally www.sallyqueenassociates.com Costume Calendar Series _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 09:50:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16123 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:50:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA11578; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:54:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA19891 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:57:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA19886 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:57:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.111 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:56:47 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Jean cloth Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:59:26 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be4b98$405e8100$6f17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" This word "jean cloth" goes back to the 18th century at least, and was usually white. In Norah Waugh's Corsets and Crinolines, there are numerous references to it being one standard material for stays, less expensive than silk, nicer than coarse linen. I wouldn't be surprised, but I don't know, if it was the same fabric used to make sailors' slops, which were sold ready-made in port towns. (The sailors typically didn't have womenfolk available to sew for them when their need for a new pair of slops arose.) The Peabody Maritime Museum in Peabody(?), Massachusetts has documented the history of sailors wear and may be able to provide some more clues. Levi made and sold tents of "jean cloth" during the California Gold Rush, and recognized the potential market for durable, ready-made miners clothing. (Again, the problem being that the bachelor adventurers didn't have womenfolk on hand to sew for them.) Levi used the white tent fabric to make the first jeans, but the men complained that they showed the dirt and looked messy. He decided to dye them blue, and they sold like hotcakes---ever since. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of MaggiRos@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 29, 1999 12:52 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Lasting cloth -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com But the French name "Jean" is pronounced "zhawn" and likely to be mispronounced "john" and Genoa is pronounced JEN-oh-a or sometimes jen-OH-a. Neither one works out to "jean", unless the only source for the word was in writing. And somehow i don't think that's how all those miners and cowboys came to call them jeans. On the other hand, I can't offer a better answer. MaggiRos In a message dated 1/28/99 8:01:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, seamstrix@juno.com writes: > > It was my understanding that 'jeans' were called such because another > name for 'serge de Nimes' was 'de Genoa' which got shortened and > bastardized to 'jean'. That makes more sense than the sailors named Jean > story, but I still don't know if it's true. > > > Karen > > > On Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:59:54 -0800 (PST) Margo Anderson > writes: > > > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > > > > Jean cloth was commonly used by the Confederate army, as well as by > >the > >Union army > >>and civilians for work clothes. > >> > >Now, is "jean cloth" denim, or is there some other reason they're > >called > >"jeans"? I've heard the rumor that they got the name by being worn by > >French sailors, many of whom were named Jean, but it sounds like a > >costume > >myth to me. Anyone? > > > >Margo > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 10:51:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16436 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:51:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA19881; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:55:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA28892 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:57:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA28876 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:57:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.69 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:57:19 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: best sources for fabulous historic cloth? Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:00:28 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be4ba0$b48de040$6f17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <36B11B80.6686994A@earthlink.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I am a new at serious historical costuming too, and this is the hardest thing to deal with. The old fabrics are not made anymore, period, and even those vendors who position themselves with historic credentials are either too eager to make a sale or not sufficiently versed in the subject to know the facts. A case in point, being my interchange with a well-respected reproductions fabric company in Massachusetts, which ---don't get me wrong----has many fine fabrics appropriate for many historic costumers needs, but . . . . I asked for linen or cotton prints appropriate to 1730 upperclass use for deshabille or morning gown, and was assured emphatically that they had it. After spending $10 on their sample packet, the fabric they thought would work turned out to be an indigo copper plate print. It would have been appropriate for the late 1700's, but in no way appropraite to 1730 as copperplate printing on fabric didn't exist then. There is at least one custom weaver of patterned silk materials in England who will recreate historic fabrics to perfection, but their work is extraordinarily expensive and their clients are museums and the extraordinarily wealthy. It is much easier to create lower class garb than upper class garb, although finding decent linen is horribly difficult. Modern linen is rarely as nice are the old stuff. Plain colored velvet and upholstery silk works for many things, and watered silk is still available, but to get the weight you want you may have to substitute a cotton and rayon blend. For the cost-conscious, which is all of us, it is important to look at photos and actual historic fabrics in museums to get a sense of what the real fabrics looked like. For periods prior to 1780, go to the upholstery fabric dealers and select materials which look similar in pattern and color. Don't overlook saris and hand-woven Thai silk sources on the Web. Use http://www.metacrawler.com to find them. Embroidery or hand-painted designs on fabric is another avenue, as these were bonafide techniques during some historic periods. Nineteenth century reenactment fabrics are easier to get. Don't overlook quilt fabric stores and quilt fabric catalogs for reproductions of period prints on cotton. I can't overemphasize the necessity for doing your own original research, as fabrics varied so much from time and place that each has a unique look. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Christina Conklin Sent: Thursday, January 28, 1999 9:23 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: best sources for fabulous historic cloth? -Poster: Christina Conklin The whole 'cloth of gold' thread got me thinking. . . . What are people's favorite places to get REALLY GOOD historic fabrics? Internet, direct mail, overseas, local shops, whatever. . . . I'm interested in all of the above! Are there any sources for authentic reproduction fabrics out there or do people use fabrics that are close-enough, but lacking provenance? I'm new to this list, so please pardon my ignorance if this is a Historic Costume 101 question! Thanks, Christy ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 11:07:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16557 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:07:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA22687; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:11:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA01671 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:14:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.157]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA01542 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:14:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from stassja.bellatlantic.net (client-125-146.bellatlantic.net [151.198.125.146]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA03609 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:15:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990129111505.00a306e4@postoffice3.bellatlantic.net> X-Sender: stassja@postoffice3.bellatlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:15:08 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: "Mariea M. Goodinson-Dillenkofer" Subject: H-COST: Garb for big guys Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Mariea M. Goodinson-Dillenkofer" In a message dated 1/28/99 1:30:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, r-abbott@oar- xch1.oar.uiuc.edu writes: > What I was mostly hoping for was those little tricks to deal with > fitting and such. Margo mentioned a few things about "disguising" > girth, but are there any techniques that would assure a good fit? Well my husband is a "big guy" (though he's lost about 47 pounds since Thanksgiving on a wonderful diet - from 277 to 230!) and this was always a dilemma. When wearing tunics or shirts, on way to disguise a bit of girth is the way the belt is worn. Do everything you can to discourage the "below the belly" belt. This is when they wear their belts cinched below the globe of their bellies and, if anything, that accentuates that feature. I always tried to make his tunics or belts a bit longer - close to knee length. Once, for a medieval wedding, I made him an earlier period ankle length tunic and he looked splendid! Again, worn with a waist high belt (not below the belly). Not something to be active in but certainly fine as court garb or schmoozing garb). Another thing which suited him nicely was later period wear (my personal favorite) and he looked smashing in a doublet and venetians. Now that he's lost a good amount of the belly, we can go back and explore his favorite period (the 1490's) and see what we can find there. :) Rie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 11:34:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16771 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:34:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA26563; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:39:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA06728 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:41:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA06715 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:41:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA26829 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:41:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B1E4F1.6E777AC2@serv.net> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:42:26 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Shinrone Gown, Lacing, Nakedness, and Green References: <3772753.36b143b8@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True Wish I could remember my source on this. But I am of the understanding that naked meant not dressed decently such as in your underwear. Nude means bare naked. Which makes me think, if you consider the term "bare naked" that naked didn't mean bare. So it needed the adjective of bare. > Of nakedness, well, there is that story of a Bohemian tourist visiting "The > O'Kane" being welcomed in by the daughters of the house who he calls "all > naked". But the rest of the paragraph sure makes it sound as if they are naked > but for their shift. Maybe it's a translation problem? -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 12:05:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16986 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:05:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA03493; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:09:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA12833 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:12:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA12809 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:12:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p13.directcon.net [206.170.184.62]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA15718 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:06:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:06:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901291706.JAA15718@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: RE: H-COST: Garb for large men, additional Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >As for getting them to wear the waistband around their waist and not their >hips, if you ever discover a method you'll probably make a fortune selling >it. :) I I'm considering a staplegun. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 12:21:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17096 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:21:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA06782; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:25:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA15669 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:28:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA15632 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:28:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p13.directcon.net [206.170.184.62]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA17783 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:23:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:23:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901291723.JAA17783@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 'dress'- What is it? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson > >The word dress can also be applied to a more delecate subject in men's >trousers - a good >tailor will ask whether you dress to the left or the right, that is, does >the penis usually sit to one side or the other, and will cut the trousers >accordingly I've always wondered, what IS the alteration made for this purpose? Do you cut the trouser leg front fuller on that side, or what? BTW, when I was working at a bridal store which also rented men's formal wear, our supplier gave us special tape measures. They had a cardboard piece, about 5" long, running along the beginning of the tape, so that you could sort of poke up into a man's crotch, to get an inseam measurement without your hand geting anywhere near...anything. Good heavens. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 12:23:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17106 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:23:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA07365; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:28:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA16156 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:31:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from m16.boston.juno.com (m16.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.192]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA16127 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:31:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m16.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DZ578EDJ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:30:42 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Garb for large men, additional Message-ID: <19990129.090830.4783.17.cley@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-7 From: cynthia j ley Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:30:42 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: cynthia j ley You might also consider the Renaissance English and Italian men's cotes. These are very flattering on larger gentlemen, emphasizing the square, masculine set of the shoulders and being a very graceful garment otherwise. Arlys ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 12:29:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17136 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:29:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA07943; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:33:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA16937 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:36:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f262.hotmail.com [207.82.251.153]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id KAA16919 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:36:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 23982 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jan 1999 17:35:36 -0000 Message-ID: <19990129173536.23981.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.52.33.121 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:35:35 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.52.33.121] From: "Glenda Hohmann" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: prom dress Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:35:35 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Glenda Hohmann" You're in luck! All you have to do is go in to your local fabric/ pattern store and look in the Vogue pattern books for "Vintage Vogue" patterns. They are re-issued a whole bunch of patterns from the 40's, 50's and 60's, and even rewrote the instructions to make them easier to make (the instructions were a real bear back then) and redesigned them to fit "today's silhouette", although personally, I wish they would have left them as they were to fit us curvier-type people. They started with evening gowns (some of the type that you described) with the Winter catalog, and then are going to suits and the like in the Spring one, and then (I think) 'sportswear', which for them is more casual stuff. As for fabrics, for the style you described, you will pretty much need netting, tulle or organdy for the krinoline, but for the dress itself, why don't you try satin, crepe satin, organza, chiffon, or a brocade or jacquard. One of the ones that they are featuring is floor-length and strapless (as you described) and is made from a black and white brocade - absolutely gorgeous :> Hope that helps, Katrynka Chornovoloskaya (Glenda Hohmann) >- -Poster: "Mariea M. Goodinson-Dillenkofer" > >Hi all! > > I just wondered if anyone knows of any good patterns available for a >1950's type dress, the kind usually referred to as a "prom dress" - >strapless fitted bodice with a very full skirt gathered at the waist and >usually with a wide sash that makes a bow in back. I know this sounds >simple to put together from scratch but I wondered if there's a pattern out >there to make the work simpler (also, I'm not sure what fabrics would get >used other than taffeta, net and organdy for this type of party dress). > > Thanks for any leads! > > Rita ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 12:32:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17157 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:32:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA08397; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:36:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA17548 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:39:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from shepards.com ([192.104.69.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id KAA17536 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:39:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from sneffels.shepards.com by shepards.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA12394; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:52:12 -0700 Received: by SNEFFELS with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:39:40 -0700 Message-ID: <5DA4C4BE65D9D111A6FC0060081FD218D39D53@SNEFFELS> From: "Griggs, Margaret (SHEP)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Garb for large men, additional Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:39:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Griggs, Margaret (SHEP)" >>As for getting them to wear the waistband around their waist and not their >>hips, if you ever discover a method you'll probably make a fortune selling >>it. :) >I > >I'm considering a staplegun. > >Margo I don't think I'd mind the holes in the men as much as the holes in the new clothes. :) Maggie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 12:32:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17161 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:32:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA08526; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:37:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA17634 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:40:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA17596 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:39:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p13.directcon.net [206.170.184.62]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA19033 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:34:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:34:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901291734.JAA19033@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: Dye question Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson I have an ivory colored antique silk shawl, with allover embroidery in the same color. It's similar to the Chinese made "Spanish" shawls. Lacis used to have an identical piece, and they dated it 1880's. The problem is, my shawl is stained with what looks like ball point pen ink and some brown marks which may be from being stored in an acid environment (cardboard). Rather than try to clean it, I'd really like to dye it black. I don't wear ivory much and I've always wanted a black one. So, would it be downright sacriligous for me to dye this piece, and if not, can anyone recommend what kind of dye and how to go about it? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 12:39:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17199 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:39:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA09869; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:44:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA18969 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:46:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA18930 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:46:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip85.an3-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.14.85]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA18540 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:46:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B1E6B3.8CA5BB8E@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:49:56 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Derivation of 'jeans'/ was The Lasting cloth References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson > seamstrix@juno.com writes: > > > > > It was my understanding that 'jeans' were called such because another > > name for 'serge de Nimes' was 'de Genoa' which got shortened and > > bastardized to 'jean'. That makes more sense than the sailors named Jean > > story, but I still don't know if it's true. > > > > > > Karen > > > Both my dictionaries (Webster's Second, and the OED) agree that it's from Genoa, but the OED specifies that it's from Genoa *fustian*. Their first citation, which refers to 'Jene fustyan', is from 1567.Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 13:09:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA17391 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:09:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA14790; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:13:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA24461 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:16:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from stamp.digitalink.com (stamp.digitalink.com [206.137.160.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA24444 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:16:05 -0700 (MST) From: tobeypam@washpost.com Received: from utility.washpost.com (utility.washpost.com [10.4.1.97]) by stamp.digitalink.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA04338 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:21:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from notesnt1.washpost.com by utility.washpost.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA17522; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:04:51 -0500 Received: by notesnt1.washpost.com(Lotus SMTP MTA Internal build v4.6.2 (651.2 6-10-1998)) id 85256708.00639469 ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:07:40 -0500 X-Lotus-Fromdomain: WASHPOSTMAIN To: h-costume@indra.com Message-Id: <85256708.006392AA.00@notesnt1.washpost.com> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:16:06 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: pricing question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: tobeypam@washpost.com Exactly Fran! Right to the point! I'm saving your posting for the future! Why can't people think of seamstresses/dressmakers as "couturiers?" That's exactly what our talented sewers on this list are! Whether modern or historic dress. Customers would NEVER think of whining about price to Christain Lacroix or Yves St. Laurent. And they are getting the same personalized, made-to-measure service! Now back to lurking again, Pam :-) tobeypam@washpost.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 13:52:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA17603 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:52:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA20453; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:50:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA01239 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:53:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailnfs0.tiac.net (mailnfs0.tiac.net [199.0.65.17]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA01199 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:53:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from kdp.tiac.net (kdp.tiac.net [206.119.75.41]) by mailnfs0.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8) with SMTP id NAA24378 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:53:38 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990128151914.2f0f5e6e@tiac.net> X-Sender: kdp@tiac.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:19:14 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kristin Page Subject: Re: H-COST: Question on Rayon In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kristin Page Use pure linen if you can get it, or consider light-weight wool. Rayon's breathability depends primarily on the weave. Unless it's dry cleaned rayon never quite stops shrinking -- lycra doesn't breathe. The advantage that's obtained by mixing rayon with linen is that rayon dyes well into bright colors that are impossible when dying linen by itself. Kristin Page At 07:26 PM 1/28/99 EST, you wrote: > >-Poster: CONNECT@aol.com > >Good People, > >I'm planning on making some fighting pants for the SCA. I found a >rayon/linen/lycra blend at my local Jo-Anns. I want linen because it soaks up >sweat with ease. However, I have no idea how rayon treats sweat. Does it work >like linen in that regard? > >I've been told that rayon is treated cellulose, and therefore technically a >"natural" fiber. But I've never paid much attention to how it deals with >moisture. Please help! > >Yours, >Pattie Rayl > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 14:16:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17729 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:16:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA22844; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:02:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA03255 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:05:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA03241; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:05:13 -0700 (MST) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DZ6DKG8H; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:04:08 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:17:38 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: Menswear - yet another theory Message-ID: <19990129.125153.13374.6.seamstrix@juno.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19990129120700.00944160@130.149.12.212> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,4-7,9-11,22-25 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com >The social theory of civilization founded by Norbert Elias (1939: The >Process of Civilization) argues that civilization is a process in >which personal physical urges are getting more and more controlled, first by >society through sanctions, later by the individual self through >sublimation. By this theory, societies which exist a long time >undisruptedly have an innate tendency toward "civilization" by the >drive of individuals to move upward in society, for which self-control proves >ultimately most successful. As a sometime cultural anthropologist, I would have to take exception to that. It may be true of Western Europe, but it certainly isn't true of cultures outside that area. Many cultures in Africa, for instance, have existed for hundreds/thousands of years and many of them show a tendency towards a high degree of personal adornment. I know that when the theory was developed, Western Europe was considered the ultimate in civilization, but I hope that we are a bit more enlightened than that and can see the depth and complexity of non-European cultures as being equal or exceeding our own. A quick look thru history will confirm that long-term civilization (Ancient Egyptian anyone?) and subdued clothing are not neccessarily the same thing. Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 14:35:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17837 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:35:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA27260; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:34:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA08097 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:37:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy.netwizards.net (qmailr@Proxy.NetWizards.Net [206.99.115.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA08083 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:37:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 18223 invoked from network); 29 Jan 1999 20:43:02 -0000 Received: from bayarea56k649.netwiz.net (HELO slave) (208.164.208.249) by proxy.netwizards.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 1999 20:43:02 -0000 Message-ID: <36B20DD1.44C2@netwiz.net> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:36:49 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Dye question References: <199901291734.JAA19033@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi Margo -- The sacrilege part is up to you, but as they also came in black originally, I don't see a problem. (unless the silk is weak) I've just done my first acid dyeing on silk, so I'm not exactly an expert. I got fed up with the way Procion behaves on silk and I needed an *exact* color red. So I bought red and black acid dyes from Dharma Trading (they are Jacquard brand, tho') To get true black on silk, you have to use an acid dye (the acid referred to is vinegar -- not scary) and simmer on top of the stove. You need an enamel pan of some kind (I used an old refrigerator drawer) large enough so the piece can "move around freely" I haven't tried the black yet, but it's practically guaranteed to come out (so say more experienced dyers) Susan Margo Anderson wrote: > > I have an ivory colored antique silk shawl, with allover embroidery in the > same color. It's similar to the Chinese made "Spanish" shawls. Lacis used .... > So, would it be downright sacriligous for me to dye this piece, and if not, > can anyone recommend what kind of dye and how to go about it? > -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 15:06:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA18269 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:06:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA02217; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:02:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA13070 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:05:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA13043 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:05:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p34.directcon.net [206.170.184.83]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA05467 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:00:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:00:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901292000.MAA05467@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Dye question Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson A >I haven't tried the black yet, but it's practically guaranteed >to come out (so say more experienced dyers) > Umm..do you mean "come out" as in bleed and run all over the place, or as in "come out right"? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 15:15:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA18327 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:15:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA04506; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:17:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA15329 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:20:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA15318 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:20:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA05168 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:12:22 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:12:20 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Dye question In-Reply-To: <36B20DD1.44C2@netwiz.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > -Poster: Susan Fatemi > > I haven't tried the black yet, but it's practically guaranteed > to come out (so say more experienced dyers) I've dyed a few pieces of china silk and silk chiffon with Pro Chem's acid dyes in black. They work great. You just have to use a lot of dye. Sylvia R _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 16:08:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18634 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:08:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA12563; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:11:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA24270 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:15:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy.netwizards.net (qmailr@Proxy.NetWizards.Net [206.99.115.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id OAA24251 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:14:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 20274 invoked from network); 29 Jan 1999 22:20:51 -0000 Received: from bayarea56k591.netwiz.net (HELO slave) (208.164.208.191) by proxy.netwizards.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 1999 22:20:51 -0000 Message-ID: <36B224C1.7047@netwiz.net> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:14:41 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Dye question References: <199901292000.MAA05467@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi Margo Anderson wrote: > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > >I haven't tried the black yet, but it's practically guaranteed > >to come out (so say more experienced dyers) > > > Umm..do you mean "come out" as in bleed and run all over the place, or as in > "come out right"? > > Margo > Sorry, poor choice of words when discussing dyes. How about "turn out well"?? I was very pleased with the red. I ran it through the washing machine afterwards with some synthrepol, and hopefully any excess dye was removed at the time. The acid dyes are meant to be *permanent*. But consult with someone at Pro-chem or Dharma or Jacquard for more info. That's why I dyed this fabric myself. Commercial red silks tend to run no matter how many times you wash them (and that myth of salt setting dyes DOES NOT WORK) Even if I plan to dry clean the garment made from this silk, it's nice to know it could be washed if necessary! Susan -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 16:35:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18815 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:35:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA17073; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:38:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA27437 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:35:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA27421 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:35:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from JohnO (cc60.ccmail.com [205.226.119.60]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/best.out) with SMTP id NAA27622; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:32:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:31:12 -0700 To: "penny.creative.outlets@erols.com" , "costume newsgroup" From: "John O'Halloran - ICG Webmaster" Importance: medium Priority: normal X-Mailer: IBM Internet Messaging Framework Message-Id: <917645472-0-icg@costume.org> X-MIME-Engine: v0.58 Subject: Re:H-COST: Looking for John (Also Titanic Tour) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Id: <917645472-1-icg@costume.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "John O'Halloran - ICG Webmaster" > "Penny E. Ladnier" > writes back in November of 1998: > Back in June a person on this list named John created > this website > http://inwap.fremont.ca.us/pictures/byjohn/misc/TitanicTour-June1998/ > about the Titanic on Tour. Can you please contact me or if you > know his email address contact me. Please contact me off-list. That would be me. John O'Halloran posting from the International Costumer's Guild Webmaster account. Many things have happened in the past few months, so I fell waaaaaaay behind on my mailing lists, including moving house and internet domains. The above link is now outdated and no longer exists, the new one is: http://www.tyedye.org/pictures/byjohn/misc/TitanicTour-June1998 Apologies, but I have not done the final descriptions/naming that is promised on the web page. Personal eMail is: eoin@tyedye.org ICG eMail is: webmaster@costume.org JohnO _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 16:35:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18819 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:35:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA17155; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:38:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA26939 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:32:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.worldaccessnet.com (JWAW22XY4tmip209cn7d1sjFWfSuSO+0@worldaccessnet.com [206.190.139.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id OAA26925 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:32:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by vortex.worldaccessnet.com id m106LVp-000dRTC; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:31:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail3.2.0.91#4) Received: from max1-01.worldaccessnet.com(209.17.80.193), claiming to be "worldaccessnet.com" via SMTP by worldaccessnet.com, id smtpdAAAa004ic; Fri Jan 29 13:31:16 1999 Message-ID: <36B21A93.3181DEEF@worldaccessnet.com> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:31:15 -0800 From: Sidne Kneeland X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com, r-abbott@oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: H-COST: Garb for large men, additional References: <6BAA9E7DB36AD2118FA60060943F1CAF1466C9@oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sidne Kneeland Greetings, I understand the part about _how do you make it_ as I have one of those types myself (the large of girth, that is). Check out this URL and see if that helps. Any feedback or ideas appreciated. http://www.angelfire.com/ks/merlyns/corpulent1.html SK Abbott, Ruth wrote: > -Poster: "Abbott, Ruth" > ..(snip)... > What I was mostly hoping for was those little tricks to deal with > fitting and such. Margo mentioned a few things about "disguising" > girth, but are there any techniques that would assure a good fit? For > example, I have considered whether adding gores to a T-tunic would make > sense, to allow for more room. It seems to me that the gores would have > to start quite high to be of help, since it's not a matter of wanting to > flair out at the hips as with a woman. Then they would just look silly > (I imagine) and likely draw the eye right to his middle. ... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 16:53:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18921 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:53:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA19113; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:49:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA00593 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:52:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA00578 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:52:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p19.directcon.net [206.170.184.68]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA16654 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:47:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:47:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901292147.NAA16654@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: Costumes for Glamour photography Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson Yesterday I posted to the list that I was about to resign myself to the prospect that there is no market for my costuming in my location. Well, wouldn't you know, today I talked to a local photography studio that does a lot of "glamour" photography, and is interested in having some things made. I'll be going to talk to them about it tomorrow. If anyone on the list has done this kind of work, or even been to this sort of a photo session, I'd love to hear from them, hopefully before tomorrow. I'm most interested in how these garments are constructed and what provisions there are for different sizes, but any info would be welcome. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 17:04:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA19007 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:04:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA20956; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:03:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA02955 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:06:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA02944 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:06:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA06761 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:58:09 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:58:04 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Dye question In-Reply-To: <36B224C1.7047@netwiz.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Susan Fatemi wrote: > > Sorry, poor choice of words when discussing dyes. How about > "turn out well"?? I was very pleased with the red. I ran > it through the washing machine afterwards with some synthrepol, > and hopefully any excess dye was removed at the time. > The acid dyes are meant to be *permanent*. But consult > with someone at Pro-chem or Dharma or Jacquard for more info. > That's why I dyed this fabric myself. Commercial red silks > tend to run no matter how many times you wash them (and that > myth of salt setting dyes DOES NOT WORK) Even if I plan to > dry clean the garment made from this silk, it's nice to know > it could be washed if necessary! > When I use acid dyes, they are extremely washfast, which is one big reason I like them so much better than procion mx, not to mention that I get much brighter colors too. Sylvia R _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 17:07:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA19042 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:07:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA20880; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:03:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA02910 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:06:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooter.bluemarble.net (shooter.bluemarble.net [204.89.253.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA02869 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:06:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (kimberly@localhost) by shooter.bluemarble.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA18554 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:06:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:06:17 -0500 (EST) From: Kimberly Gilbert To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: pricing question In-Reply-To: <36B0FC95.83E946D9@best.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kimberly Gilbert I'm actually in a somewhat different boat right now - I sew for myself, my mother and will for my boyfriend if I can figure out men's garb. My mother actually pays me to sew. I'd do it for free for her (we are talking about the woman who gave birth to me after all - I kinda owe HER a little bit!), but she always insists on paying. Same with when I make jewelry. On the other hand, I've had people admire my jewelry and express interest in buying some, but when I quote a price (which is usually rediculously low), almost invariably people say it's too high a price! Kimberly R. Gilbert kimberly@bluemarble.net "This is terrible news! Do you actually intend to kill your enemies? Can't you just speak sternly to them? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 18:21:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA19765 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:21:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA02166; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:19:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA15391 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:23:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from x15.engin.umich.edu (root@x15.engin.umich.edu [141.212.198.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA15381 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:23:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (parsla@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by x15.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA11450 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:23:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:23:09 -0500 (EST) From: Parsla Liepa To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Garb for large men, additional In-Reply-To: <36B21A93.3181DEEF@worldaccessnet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Parsla Liepa Your question is if gores that start up-high would look silly? Well, I've got a set of tunics made so that the gores (2 sets: front and back) start up near the bust line. I don't think it looks silly at all. However, I'm not the type of person that you're talking about dressing here. Rather than a large man, I'm a slightly plump young woman. Parsla > > What I was mostly hoping for was those little tricks to deal with > > fitting and such. Margo mentioned a few things about "disguising" > > girth, but are there any techniques that would assure a good fit? For > > example, I have considered whether adding gores to a T-tunic would make > > sense, to allow for more room. It seems to me that the gores would have > > to start quite high to be of help, since it's not a matter of wanting to > > flair out at the hips as with a woman. Then they would just look silly > > (I imagine) and likely draw the eye right to his middle. ... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 19:22:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA20164 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:22:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA12897; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:26:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA23921 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:30:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA23908 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:30:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-79-235.s235.tnt5.rcm.erols.com [207.172.79.235]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id TAA11923 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:29:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000101be4be7$bd946460$eb4faccf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: "costume newsgroup" Subject: H-COST: IFGS and SCA Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:30:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" What is the difference between IFGS (International Fantasy Gaming Society) and SCA? Someone wrote me from their website and invited me to look at their Web site. From my understanding, they do a type of role playing in costume (sometimes historically based). Am I reading this right? Please check out the website, at http://www.ifgs.org/Society/welcome.htm and let me know what you think. Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 19:54:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA20332 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:54:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA16012; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:58:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA27524 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:01:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA27507 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:01:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-79-235.s235.tnt5.rcm.erols.com [207.172.79.235]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA18459; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:01:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000101be4bec$2419fac0$eb4faccf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: "Costume DC" Subject: H-COST: Of Interest Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:01:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" The following might be of interest for networking purposes, commenting to the big guys on content, etc. Anyways, it does have people in high places on the panels. I think I might try to make this one, just to be a fly on the wall. Later...Penny ******The State of the Art in the Historical Documentary******* For those of you tangentially interested in television/dvd production or in producing historical content, Women in Film and Video presents "The State of the Art in the Historical Documentary." The seminar will be February 6, from 10:00 to 4:15, at the Navy Memorial auditorium, 701 Pennsylvania Ave. Washington, DC (Yellow/Green lines, Archives/Navy Memorial metro). DC's own, four-time Oscar-winner Charles Guggenheim, will join major producers, programmers and distributors to discuss style and content; research, editing and cinematography techniques; and funding and tv programming issues. Call the WIFV office for registration/information at 333-1557. The advance cost by Feb. 3 for non-WIFV members is $40. 9:30 to 10:00 Registration 10:00 PANEL I: Evolution of the historical documentary: Issues of form, content and popular appeal Moderator: Patricia Aufderheide, Professor American University Panelists: Charles Maday, VP Historical Programming The History Channel David S. Thompson Director of Cultural Programming WETA Nina Gilden Seavey Director, Center for History in the Media George Washington University William Gilcher Director, Media Projects - North America, Goethe-Institute, Washington 11:30 - 11:45 BREAK 11:45 - 12:45 Keynote Speech: Charles Guggenheim 12:45-1:15 LUNCH 1:15 - 2:30 PANEL II: Research and Visual Challenges Moderator: Geoffrey Pingree, Assistant Professor Catholic University Panelists: Grace Guggenheim VP, Guggenheim Productions Allen Moore, Director of Photography Allen Moore Films Barbara Newman, Producer, Barbara Newman Productions Sam Green, Editor The Edit Room 2:30-2:45 BREAK 2:45 - 4:15 Panel III: Funding and Programming Moderator: Diana Ingraham, President Old Hat Marketing & Productions Panelists: David Royle, Executive Producer Explorer, National Geographic Ron Devillier, President Devillier, Donegan Enterprises Steve Cheskin, Vice-President, Programming The Learning Channel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 19:56:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA20347 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:56:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA16329; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:00:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA27758 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:03:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA27750 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:03:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnaco.net (pm3-3-47.dnaco.net [207.238.205.111]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA14505 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:05:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36B25A44.553571ED@dnaco.net> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:03:00 -0500 From: Christine Krebs-Bonder <2maples@dnaco.net> Organization: Two Maples X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: IFGS and SCA References: <000101be4be7$bd946460$eb4faccf@s0peladn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christine Krebs-Bonder <2maples@dnaco.net> The IFGS is more geared towards roleplay that has a "script". This isn't necessarily a line for line script like a play, but there is a scenario and the players usually have goals to accomplish totell a story. SCA isn't roleplay in the same manner, it's not a game like D&D, Shivalry & Sorcery, Ars Magica or the live action roleplay games like Vampire that can fall under the aegis of the IFGS. Christine Krebs Bonder Lady Edlyn of Meadowburne "Penny E. Ladnier" wrote: > -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" > > What is the difference between IFGS (International Fantasy Gaming Society) > and SCA? Someone wrote me from their website and invited me to look at > their Web site. From my understanding, they do a type of role playing in > costume (sometimes historically based). Am I reading this right? Please > check out the website, at http://www.ifgs.org/Society/welcome.htm and let me > know what you think. > > Later...Penny > http://www.costumegallery.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 20:25:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA20512 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:25:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA20052; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:28:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA00922 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:32:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from alcatraz.citysearch.com (alcatraz.citysearch.com [209.67.166.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA00917 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:32:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from pascamail-2.beach.citysearch.com (pascamail-2.beach.citysearch.com [10.0.50.196]) (env-from Jon_Enge@citysearch.com) by alcatraz.citysearch.com (8.9.1/1999012701) with ESMTP id RAA29357 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:31:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by pascamail-2.beach.citysearch.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:31:59 -0800 Message-ID: <9A75E4B6D1DCD1119F6F0060975EABE703B97099@pascamail-2.beach.citysearch.com> From: Jon Enge To: "'h-costume-digest@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: RE:Dye question Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:31:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jon Enge Ok... on this note, I have a piece of white cotton brocade that I want to dye burgundy. What is the best dye I can use for this. All I know is RIT and I hear it fades really quickly in the intense sun of faire. Also, is there any way to get it dyed professionally? All input is appreciated. If you can send responses to my personal email address... jenge@cars.com Thank you... Jon... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 20:37:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA20574 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:37:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA21033; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:41:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA02033 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:44:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from aventurine.sge.net (aventurine.sge.net [152.91.14.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA02027 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:44:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from titanium.sge.net (firewall-user@titanium.sge.net [152.91.9.2]) by aventurine.sge.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA11175 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:44:25 +1100 (EST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by titanium.sge.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA19331 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:44:25 +1100 (EST) Received: from kryptonite.sge.net(10.1.2.11) by titanium.sge.net via smap (3.2) id xma019322; Sat, 30 Jan 99 12:44:20 +1100 Received: from amber. (ice-int2.sge.net [10.1.2.254]) by kryptonite.sge.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA03255 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:44:20 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199901300144.MAA03255@kryptonite.sge.net> From: WICKHAM Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Clogs in England & History Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:44:00 +1100 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: WICKHAM Raymond You asked I have to wear orthotic insoles, and I have a dream of getting someone to carve me wooden soles in the same shape for clogs, so I can wear reasonably authentic footwear without aching legs. Might I suggest this gentle Jack Green: Historical Accessories including tinder-box kits, Oak Gall Ink and quills, Wooden soled Pattens, Longbows yew,oak,and willow. War arrows made to museum standards Things of interest from 0 AD to 1700. Mail Order: The Old Chapel Wookey Hole Wells Somerset. BA5 1BP Ph 01749 670 096 Ray _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 21:08:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA20739 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:08:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA23982; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:11:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA04631 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:15:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA04624 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:15:12 -0700 (MST) From: EofAshley@aol.com Received: from EofAshley@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id SGMGa19751 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:02:33 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:02:33 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: EofAshley@aol.com I mentioned earlier that I used organdy for ruffs. Never had a problem with holding its shape, as long as one tacks the S-shapes together at the outside. Edge finishing helps. Karla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 21:09:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA20746 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:09:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA24130; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:13:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA04794 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:17:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from hummer.tci.net (hummer.TCI.NET [209.19.4.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA04786 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:17:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303-a (c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.4.53.172]) by hummer.tci.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id DJS9QHMZ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:15:56 -0700 Message-ID: <004001be4bf8$97880900$ac350418@c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: IFGS and SCA Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:30:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" This is very off subject but I will answer and hope that all other questions and answers concerning this will go off the list. The IFGS is a fantasy role playing society that incorporates ad&d scenarios. By ad&d I mean they have monsters, quests for magical devices that they can use on each other, they have fairy personas, wizard personas, weapons constructed of foam and kite spar, and a great potential for beautiful fantasy costuming ideas! They are by far the most advanced LARP out there in the sphere of corporate organization. The SCA is not an LARP, it is a reenactment group like the Trayne Bandes, Black Powder, Western Shootist, and many others that all insist on some sort of standard of historical accuracy on paper. There are other differences that each will insist on bringing up but this is not the list for it. Sincerely, Ches aka Chiara Francesca Virtual Scribe for 20th year http://www.ansteorra.org/20thyr/ -----Original Message----- From: Penny E. Ladnier To: costume newsgroup Date: Friday, January 29, 1999 6:04 PM Subject: H-COST: IFGS and SCA : :-Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" : :What is the difference between IFGS (International Fantasy Gaming Society) :and SCA? Someone wrote me from their website and invited me to look at :their Web site. From my understanding, they do a type of role playing in :costume (sometimes historically based). Am I reading this right? Please :check out the website, at http://www.ifgs.org/Society/welcome.htm and let me :know what you think. : :Later...Penny :http://www.costumegallery.com : : : : : _________________________________________________________________ : To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com : with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME : _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 21:46:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA20985 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:45:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA28770; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:49:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA07841 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:52:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy.netwizards.net (qmailr@Proxy.NetWizards.Net [206.99.115.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id TAA07832 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:52:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 27665 invoked from network); 30 Jan 1999 03:58:18 -0000 Received: from bayarea56k426.netwiz.net (HELO slave) (208.164.208.26) by proxy.netwizards.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 1999 03:58:18 -0000 Message-ID: <36B273E1.1662@netwiz.net> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:52:17 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE:Dye question References: <9A75E4B6D1DCD1119F6F0060975EABE703B97099@pascamail-2.beach.citysearch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi Jon Enge wrote: > > -Poster: Jon Enge > > Ok... on this note, I have a piece of white cotton brocade that I want to > dye burgundy. What is the best dye I can use for this. All I know is RIT and > I hear it fades really quickly in the intense sun of faire. Also, is there > any way to get it dyed professionally? All input is appreciated. If you can > send responses to my personal email address... jenge@cars.com > Thank you... > Jon... The Procion MX I mentioned is fiber reactive (I think that means it bonds to the fiber at the molecular level) It is great on cotton and all cellulosic fibers. It works on silk, but is subject to a color shift. Everything is redder than it's supposed to be and you never know what color you're going to get. It's much more reliable on cotton. (my next project is to try dyeing silk with procion and vinegar and see what happens) go to www.dharmatrading.com and get their free catalog. even if you never order from them, the catalog is very informative and includes color cards. There's a whole dyer's list for anyone who really gets interested! Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 21:46:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA20992 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:46:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA29070; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:50:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA08007 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:53:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.wireweb.net (mail.wireweb.net [207.71.23.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA08000 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:53:36 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail.wireweb.net from localhost (router,SLMail V3.1); Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:51:58 -0600 Received: by mail.wireweb.net from system (207.235.90.40::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.1); Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:51:57 -0600 Message-ID: <36B274E4.7015@wireweb.net> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:56:36 -0600 From: "Cynthia Bucheger" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Costumes for Glamour photography References: <199901292147.NAA16654@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Cynthia Bucheger" My daughter chose a glamour photo session for her senior pictures - didn't have to worry about make-up, hair, what to wear, etc.- They used a lot of wraps, scarves, and standard graduation gowns in the local school colors. The only items they had that were -fitted were a set of leather jackets. Cynthia Margo Anderson wrote: > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > Yesterday I posted to the list that I was about to resign myself to the > prospect that there is no market for my costuming in my location. Well, > wouldn't you know, today I talked to a local photography studio that does a > lot of "glamour" photography, and is interested in having some things made. > I'll be going to talk to them about it tomorrow. > > If anyone on the list has done this kind of work, or even been to this sort > of a photo session, I'd love to hear from them, hopefully before tomorrow. > I'm most interested in how these garments are constructed and what > provisions there are for different sizes, but any info would be welcome. > > Margo Anderson > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 22:51:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA21318 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:51:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA08701; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:55:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA13526 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:58:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA13518 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:58:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.179] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 106RYS-0003kh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:58:44 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:59:21 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: H-COST: Garb for large men Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Alix-- A friend responded to your dilemma thusly: >It sounds like a t-tunic is the right garb item for the gentleman. >If the back is a little wider than the front, that shouldn't cause >problems. > >I would not do gores. They will not look right. Using 60" wide >fabric, say a heavy cotton sheeting, is a start toward the right >look. > >Carole _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 23:09:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA21439 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:09:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA10725; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:13:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA15174 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:16:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail3.austin.rr.com (fe3.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA15169 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:16:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from cs63-200.austin.rr.com ([24.93.63.200]) by mail3.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:07:58 -0600 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Garb thoughts for large men Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 04:25:40 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <36bc8928.304576810@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <6BAA9E7DB36AD2118FA60060943F1CAF1466C8@oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu> In-Reply-To: <6BAA9E7DB36AD2118FA60060943F1CAF1466C8@oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id XAA21439 Status: O -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) ( I sent this a few days ago, but it seems to never have been posted to the list, and I have discovered and fixed an error in my mail settings that caused this ) >I am looking for all tips and ideas for garbing a large man in medieval >attire. (By large, I mean that his waist is larger than his chest, and >under that he's fairly well muscled all over.) I've read many >suggestions for adapting to women's shapes, but I'm wondering how to >make my dear husband both comfortable and attractive. If you are willing to go that late, 1500's German costume is quite attractive on the larger gentleman. If he wants to cover his legs, pluderhose are very effective, and will still show off the butt nicely. (Silly to mention, but this might be a concern...) The shorter (knee or thigh, whichever area/period he is most fond of) man's Houppelande would also be quite attractive, belted or unbelted, dependig on his comfort requirement. This is especially nice when the man has good legs to show off. I have fond memories of this costume looking quite regal on family friends of this description all the way back to my childhood (SCA in Berkeley CA). Irish costume, done right, would be wonderful for warmer weather. The short ' jacket' would help disguise the difference between the waist and chest. This type of costume, made about 20 years ago by my mother, still looks quite nice on my stepfather, who now *also* fits the general description. It adjusts pretty well to an expanding or contracting figure. Just a few suggestions (I left out Tudor, as Drea had made that suggestion already), hope this gives you some choices:) StrangeGirl - usenet Rio - real life Margery - SCA -----rio@austin.rr.com---Goddess of Last Minute Miracles--- "We went out with both lips blazing, and a pen in either hand..." - the Flash Girls -{*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*}- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 23:12:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA21460 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:12:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA11206; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:17:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA15562 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:20:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA15549 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:20:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip227.denver23.co.pub-ip.psi.net [38.31.5.227]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA08066 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:20:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B2898E.31BAE14@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:24:47 -0700 From: Mary Denise Smith Organization: Costume & Dressmaker Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: More On Jean Cloth References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mary Denise Smith Hello List, Here is another comment from Cricket Bauer: Jeans, or jean cloth is, by the time of the Civil War, a linen or cotton warp and a wool weft in a twill weave. The use of jean cloth has been explored extensively by Les Jensen, Charlie Childs and others in military publications, and I encourage anyone to look them up at a good library- a good publication to try is Military Historian and Collector (pub. by Company of Military Historians). While I won't try to expound on the "truth" about the origin of "blue jeans," (I think it has been explored in the Costume Society's publication, "Dress") I seem to remember that somewhere along the line, jean cloth became cotton weft/cotton warp, which was used for utilitarian purposes such as sacks and tenting, when ole Levi usurped it for his pants, which are now called jeans. As far as I know that isn't a myth, but I have a strong feeling that the French sailor thing is a tall tale- I've actually never heard that one before. But I KNOW that someone has done some solid research into Levi Strauss, and it shouldn't be too hard to find- I just don't have that kind of time right now... Hope this helps, Mary Denise Smith _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 23:27:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA21563 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:27:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA12607; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:30:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA16537 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:34:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA16530 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:34:11 -0700 (MST) From: Luiseach@aol.com Received: from Luiseach@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 7OGVa15290 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:33:31 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <8aef0887.36b28b9b@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:33:31 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: H-COST: Dye question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Luiseach@aol.com As was previously posted, salt setting on dyes doesn't always work. However, the commercial dye fixatives generally do. I buy mine from Dharma Trading and I have been quite pleased with the results, even on red silk. Usual disclaimer, no connection, just a happy customer Lucinda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jan 29 23:49:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA21685 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:49:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA14684; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:52:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA18097 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:56:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id VAA18091 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:56:17 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:56:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 4367 invoked from network); 30 Jan 1999 04:51:42 -0000 Received: from 40.240.3-5.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.40) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 1999 04:51:42 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990129205546.217f6586@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Lasting cloth Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich >At 10:49 PM 01/26/1999 +0000, Jean Waddie wrote: >-Poster: Jean Waddie > >Dear list > >Can anyone help my reference-librarian sister with this enquiry, which >is completely out of my range? Please reply to me and I will collate >replies to pass on - I'm not sure what her work would think of a sudden >flood of mail from the US! Thanks in advance, > >Jean > > We have had an enquiry to find out about "lasting cloth" >which was apparently used for military uniforms, gunpowder magazines and even >boots during the 19th century. It's for a member of staff and there is "no >hurry", but we have run out of sources. Do you know of any good books on >textiles/costume(or any web sites) which might tell us how it was made or >anything else? All suggestions gratefully received. In "Textiles in America 1650-1870" by Florence Montgomery, the entry for "Lasting" says 'see Everlasting'. The definition fits the uses you are describing: from page 235--- EVERLASTING (lasting) A stout, closely woven worsted stuff, dyed black and other colors, and much used for ladies' shoes. It was described aboaut 1800 as "a stout fabric only eighteen inches wide, with double warps, (sometimes of three threads,) and single weft, made with a five heald twill. There were different sorts of lastings as prunelles wrought with three healds. Also serge de Berry, a variety heavier, and woven with seven healds" (James, p. 362 [from the bibliography: 'History of the Worsted Manufacture in England... London, Bradford, 1857. Reprint ed., Frank Cass, 1968]) This entry continues on page 236, with pictures of a sample card of swatches from an 18th century folding pattern card. Hope this information helps your friend out. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 00:51:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA22723 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 00:51:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA21345; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:54:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA22868 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:58:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA22857 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:58:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-244-27.s27.tnt4.rcm.erols.com [207.172.244.27]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA08104 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 00:58:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006001be4c15$9d8adc20$1bf4accf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: More On Jean Cloth Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 00:58:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" While I won't try to expound on the >"truth" about the origin of "blue jeans," (I think it has been explored >in the Costume Society's publication, "Dress). There is an article in Volume I, 1975, of the Costume Society of America's journal "Dress". It is titled "Levi's" and authored by Elaine Ratner. Unfortunately, this volume is out-of-print but may be obtained through inter-library loan. If you are interested in the journal "Dress" a listing of all the volumes and articles begin at http://www.costumesocietyamerica.com/dress5.html . Later...Penny CSA Webmaster _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 05:49:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA30097 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 05:49:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA06438; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 03:53:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA23757 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 03:56:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA23582 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 03:56:25 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ECATa03482 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 05:55:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 05:55:35 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Jean cloth Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/29/99 6:57:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, hhdunlap@email.msn.com writes: > Levi used the white tent fabric to > make the first jeans, but the men complained that they > showed the dirt and looked messy. This would be at the point when the men noticed that women were dribbling into the Roaring Camp, and suddenly worried about what the girls would think. LOL, men have been going to war in plain white tents for a thousand years (hyperbole). They've always shown the dirt and would have been as messy as a bachelor's dorm room, except for the busy brooms of their campfollowers. Oh, i have no doubt that the complaint, as logged, is true. I'm just as sure that most of the men would never have known the difference without someone saying: Oh honey, you're not going to WEAR that, are you? :-) MaggiRos He decided to dye them > blue, and they sold like hotcakes---ever since. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 05:56:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA30138 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 05:56:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA06874; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 04:00:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA07599 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 04:03:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA07511 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 04:03:29 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ROTDa05506 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 06:02:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 06:02:36 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Garb for large men, additional Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/29/99 9:15:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > > >As for getting them to wear the waistband around their waist and not their > >hips, if you ever discover a method you'll probably make a fortune selling > >it. :) > I > > I'm considering a staplegun. > > Margo > Hot glue. No no, really, if you cut the waist at their real waist, they won't have a choice. If they care about their appearance, and it feels good (which it will) they'll go with it. I had to learn long long ago never to let a man tell me wear his waist is. He has no idea. But they do wear their swords at their waists. Obviously, the waist seam has to be in the same place, or they'll look like they're wearing a drop waisted dress. You show HIM where his waist is. Take an authoritative stance. And, of course, be right. If you make it, he'll wear it, and preen in every mirror he passes. MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 06:00:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA30163 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 06:00:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA07177; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 04:04:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA15776 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 04:07:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA15635 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 04:07:41 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id HVLTa15297 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 06:06:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 06:06:57 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Dye question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/29/99 10:06:09 AM Pacific Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: > > So, would it be downright sacriligous for me to dye this piece, Certainly! and if not, > can anyone recommend what kind of dye and how to go about it? Start by dying it some other dark color, then go to black. LOL, yes, I know what I said. But what are you going to do with it otherwise. Diving head first into this, I still say it was meant to be worn. On the other hand, it may not have been meant to be dyed with analine dyes at this late date, and it may not survive. So you can let it dye in the vat or die in the trunk. Or perhaps sell it to someone who can restore and display it. Life is full of choices. MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 06:59:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA30440 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 06:59:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA08751; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 05:03:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA11530 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 05:07:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA11524 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 05:07:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.196.152] (helo=slipnet) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 106ZB2-0004cS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 04:07:05 -0800 X-Sender: bridgeta@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 04:05:28 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Wanda Subject: Re: H-COST: pricing question In-Reply-To: <199901280422.UAA08584@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Wanda I don't think the price you quoted was at all unreasonable. Break it down to her, the cost of fabric plus labor could very easily be closer to four hundred. Unfortunately we are unacustomed to .. well custom in this soceity and with marshalls offering dresses at a fraction of what we would pay.. say macys.. well people tend to forget that quality does cost. Good luck! At 08:22 PM 1/27/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >I have a question about pricing a costume. A friend of my parents wants me >to make her a 1920's dress, suitable for a dinner party, that she could also >wear to other, non costume formal events. We found a design for a very >pretty chiffon dress with long sleeves and draped panels on the skirt. To >make this dress, in silk chiffon, I quoted her a price of $300. Although >she was very nice about it, she was flabbergasted at the price, and said >she's never spent this much on any piece of clothing. > >Now, I've been out of the loop for quite some time as far as formal clothing >goes, but does this price really seem that high? Isn't this about what a >dressy dress of decent quality, bought off the rack, costs these days? Or >am I just too expensive? > >Margo Anderson > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 09:04:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA31075 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:04:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA13895; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 07:08:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA16706 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 07:12:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from m5.sprynet.com (m5.sprynet.com [165.121.2.92]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA16689 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 07:11:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (hil-c52-004-vty129.as.wcom.net [206.175.118.129]) by m5.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA09371 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 06:11:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901301411.GAA09371@m5.sprynet.com> From: "Carstensen" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:08:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: RE:Dye question Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36B273E1.1662@netwiz.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carstensen" On 29 Jan 99, at 18:52, Susan Fatemi wrote: > The Procion MX I mentioned is fiber reactive (I think that means > it bonds to the fiber at the molecular level) It is great on > cotton and all cellulosic fibers. It works on silk, but is subject > to a color shift. Everything is redder than it's supposed to be > and you never know what color you're going to get. Hey, I think you may have just answered a question that I've been meaning to ask the Dharma folks! :) I've been wanting to dye some silk bright red but can't afford a steamer to use with the dyes that are specially made for silk. I didn't want to use Procion, either, unless I had some idea of how the color would shift. Things turning out redder sounds like a shift in the right direction. If anyone has gotten a nice bright red with yellow undertones on silk using Procion, please let me know which shade you used to get it. > go to www.dharmatrading.com and get their free catalog. even > if you never order from them, the catalog is very informative > and includes color cards. I can't recommend Dharma enough. Their prices on undyed silk are excellent - comparable to, if not lower than, what cotton calicos sell for locally. Thanks to them, my historical costuming underpinings are far more luxurious than they would have been otherwise. TC Carstensen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 09:42:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA31278 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:42:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA15870; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 07:46:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA18624 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 07:50:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA18618 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 07:50:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.31.130 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 06:49:25 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Jean cloth Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:53:39 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be4c60$644a12a0$c214ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I am familiar with the male animal, and cannot dispute your interpretation. Also LOL! Dress, prulished by the Costume Society of America has two articles on this subject, one in 1975, and the other more recently, available by ILL or at http://www.costumesocietyamerica.com Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of MaggiRos@aol.com Sent: Saturday, January 30, 1999 5:56 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Jean cloth -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 1/29/99 6:57:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, hhdunlap@email.msn.com writes: > Levi used the white tent fabric to > make the first jeans, but the men complained that they > showed the dirt and looked messy. This would be at the point when the men noticed that women were dribbling into the Roaring Camp, and suddenly worried about what the girls would think. LOL, men have been going to war in plain white tents for a thousand years (hyperbole). They've always shown the dirt and would have been as messy as a bachelor's dorm room, except for the busy brooms of their campfollowers. Oh, i have no doubt that the complaint, as logged, is true. I'm just as sure that most of the men would never have known the difference without someone saying: Oh honey, you're not going to WEAR that, are you? :-) MaggiRos He decided to dye them > blue, and they sold like hotcakes---ever since. > ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 09:46:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA31303 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:46:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA16105; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 07:51:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA18875 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 07:54:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA18869 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 07:54:16 -0700 (MST) From: Tigershado@aol.com Received: from Tigershado@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id IXISa05340 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:53:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:53:22 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Another Dye question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Tigershado@aol.com All this talk about different brands of dye has made me think of some more questions to ask. Thinking Elizabethan or earlier costume, what brands/specific colors have you used that you could recommend and on what type of fabric? I have a Dharma catalog around here somewhere and as I remember several of the dyes they sell can be used on more than one type of fiber. I think most of their color charts were from using on cotton, except for the silk dyes. TIA Barbara Corley Tigershado@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 09:55:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA31357 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:55:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA17156; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 07:59:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA19488 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:03:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (artemis.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA19482 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:03:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc (ppp27.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.147]) by artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA07640 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:04:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001b01be4c62$41d5f700$93a06480@dsc> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #97 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:07:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >The SCA is not an LARP, it is a reenactment group like the Trayne Bandes, >Black Powder, Western Shootist, and many others that all insist on some sort >of standard of historical accuracy on paper. I'm only going to quibble with the word "reenactment." The SCA *isn't* reenactment (e.g. we do not reenact specific historical events or battles in general). I think the term "historical recreation" better describes what the SCA does. The focus is on real history (e.g. no non-human fantasy characters), but standards of authenticy vary from person to person, depending on their interests. The SCA's wide time frame (1000 years) makes strict reenactment more or less impossible on the whole-group level, although there are groups within the SCA with a tighter focus. Also, as pointed out, there is generally no "script" within the SCA, which is the real thing which differentiates it from a role-playing game (I've met up with small groups of people who do *historical* role playing--not fantasy at all, scenarios based on history, but same basic idea. The folks I've met do WWII espionage scenarios, BTW). Susan Carroll-Clark _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 12:22:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA32096 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:22:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA01195; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:26:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA00898 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:29:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA00882 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:29:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p37.directcon.net [206.170.184.86]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA18603 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:24:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:24:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901301724.JAA18603@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Another Dye question Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson m > >All this talk about different brands of dye has made me think of some more >questions to ask. > >Thinking Elizabethan or earlier costume, what brands/specific colors have you >used that you could recommend and on what type of fabric I like Procian dye quite a lot. The only thing I would caution people on is that, by the time you buy the dye, the soda ash, Syntropol, and salt, you're spending about $20. Sometimes worth it, sometimes not, it depends on the project, of course. I like it on cotton duck or soft canvas, which I feel is a reasonable visual approximation for Ren Faires in 105 degree weather, and on raw silk. Only one of my Procion dyed costumes has faded quite badly, and it belongs to my ex husband, who has been known to leave things out on the clothesline for months (that's not the reason I divorced him...well, not the only reason). I don't think this is a reasonable test. It does stand up to frequent washings; My boys have T-shirts dyed with Procion that are 3 years old and tattered, but thecolors are still vibrant. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 12:47:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA32253 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:47:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA04663; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:51:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA03193 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:54:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA03184 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:54:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA15958 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:46:25 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:46:23 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE:Dye question In-Reply-To: <199901301411.GAA09371@m5.sprynet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > -Poster: "Carstensen" > > Hey, I think you may have just answered a question that I've been > meaning to ask the Dharma folks! :) I've been wanting to dye > some silk bright red but can't afford a steamer to use with the dyes > that are specially made for silk. I didn't want to use Procion, > either, unless I had some idea of how the color would shift. Things > turning out redder sounds like a shift in the right direction. If > anyone has gotten a nice bright red with yellow undertones on silk > using Procion, please let me know which shade you used to get it. There are at least 2 kinds of procion dyes (may be more, I cant remember). Procion mx works bet on cellulose filbers and doesnt require steaming. Procion H works well on silk but does require steaming. I haent tried the psocion H yet. I just use washfast acid dyes on silk. I've gotten a very good red with them. I also dont have a steamer. I just bought a cheap big enamel pot from the local hardware store. > I can't recommend Dharma enough. Their prices on undyed silk > are excellent - comparable to, if not lower than, what cotton calicos > sell for locally. Thanks to them, my historical costuming > underpinings are far more luxurious than they would have been > otherwise. > Exotic silks has even better prices than Dharma. Sylvia R _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 12:50:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA32274 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:50:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA05012; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:54:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA03390 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:57:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA03383 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:57:41 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id JEEJa23166 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:56:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3a8c89c9.36b347e8@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:56:56 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Costumes for Glamour photography Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 1/29/99 13:53:05 Pacific Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << If anyone on the list has done this kind of work, or even been to this sort of a photo session, I'd love to hear from them, hopefully before tomorrow. I'm most interested in how these garments are constructed and what provisions there are for different sizes, but any info would be welcome. Margo Anderson >> I have two teenaged daughters, and here in my Bay Area suburb, those types of photo places are very "hot." Their things are constructed as flashy as possible, to appeal to the market of nubile young pre-teens playing dress up (but who want to think that they are actually models or movie stars) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 12:54:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA32299 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:54:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA05494; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:59:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA03747 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:02:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA03742 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:02:10 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 7QKUa04329; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:01:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1704f1ca.36b348ee@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:01:18 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: margo@directcon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Costumes for Glamour photography-reply Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com I have two teenaged daughters, and here in my Bay Area suburb, those types of photo places are very "hot." Their things are constructed as flashy as possible, to appeal to the market of nubile young pre-teens playing dress up (but who want to think that they are actually models or movie stars). The clothes often velcro in the back, for quick changes in the open over clothes, sometimes they are even only part of an outfit, say for a head shot. This business should be fun to delve into if you don't want to do a lot of detail work. It's fast, flashy (lots of lame-accent on the e) In some studios they have little "changing" rooms for more elaborate full length dresses. Should be the sort of thing that would actually allow a seamstress/costumer to make a decent profit, since the stuff has to hold up, but will never really be "worn" in the traditional sense. Good luck, angil ++++++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing "Yes, all my laurels you have riven away and all my roses; yet in spite of you, there is one crown I bear away with me, and tonight, when I enter before God, my salute shall sweep all the stars away from the blue threshold! One thing without stain, unspotted from the world, in spite of doom, mine own! and that is.... my white plume!" ~~ Edmond Rostand's Cyrano de Bergerac _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 12:57:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA32323 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:57:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA05768; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:02:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA04012 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:05:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA04005 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:05:08 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ARETa26231 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:03:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:03:39 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: pricing question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 1/29/99 14:06:43 Pacific Standard Time, kimberly@bluemarble.net writes: << On the other hand, I've had people admire my jewelry and express interest in buying some, but when I quote a price (which is usually rediculously low), almost invariably people say it's too high a price! >> If it were me, I'd stand firm. I think the initial response on the part of many is to "negotiate" by belittling the starting price in some manner to catch the vendor off guard. I don't even blink anymore. I tell them what it'd be worth for me to do it, let them gasp, then if they decide they want to splurge great, if not, that's okay too. It's the luxury a "day job" provides! angil ++++++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing "Yes, all my laurels you have riven away and all my roses; yet in spite of you, there is one crown I bear away with me, and tonight, when I enter before God, my salute shall sweep all the stars away from the blue threshold! One thing without stain, unspotted from the world, in spite of doom, mine own! and that is.... my white plume!" ~~ Edmond Rostand's Cyrano de Bergerac _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 13:19:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA32433 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:19:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA08042; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:23:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA05790 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:26:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA05784 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:26:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p37.directcon.net [206.170.184.86]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA25060 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:21:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 10:21:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901301821.KAA25060@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: pricing question Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson Just a progress report on this situation: I thought it over, and decided that I had failed to communicate properly with my client. What I thought I heard was that she wanted an elegant evening gown that she could wear to a 1920's event. So, I went out and found the best fabrics, and wrote her an estimate using fine couture technique, at a price that far exceeded what she had expected. What she thought she told me was that she wanted a 1920's costume that she could possibly wear to mundane functions. Not an unreasonable request, just a failure to communicate. Having decided that this client is worth pleasing (she's not only a family friend, but she's a publicist who works with the Chamber of Commerce and is in a position to give me many referrals) I'm in the process of re-writing the resume using poly chiffon, and techniques such as serging seams rather than French seams, machine stitched bindings, etc. I've managed to bring the price down to $150, or half the original estimate. It won't be a fabulous gown, but it will be an adequate costume. Tomorrow I'll take her the new estimate and see if she likes the new price better! This whole experience is a reminder to me that communication is a very important part of any custom business. You can make the most exquisite piece in the world, and if it isn't what your client wanted or needed, it's a failure. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 14:08:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA32690 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:08:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA12430; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:12:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA09686 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:15:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.austin.rr.com (fe2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA09679 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:15:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from cs63-200.austin.rr.com ([24.93.63.200]) by mail2.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:09:25 -0600 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: H-COST 1880's evening corsage being auctioned on ebay Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:24:27 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <36b45b21.358337511@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id OAA32690 Status: O -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) At least that's what I *think* it is. It looks an awful lot like the ones painted by Tissot... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=60474739 However, it might be a music hal, circus, or vaudeville costume, or an early film costume piece. Any opinions? I've never actually seen one, outside of Tissot's paintings. StrangeGirl / Margery / Rio -----rio@austin.rr.com---Goddess of Last Minute Miracles--- "We went out with both lips blazing, and a pen in either hand..." - the Flash Girls -{*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*}- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 14:44:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00132 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:44:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA15225; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:49:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA12662 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:52:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA12634 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:52:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from [194.222.199.37] (helo=montgomerie.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 106gRE-0007XG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:52:17 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:50:23 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: H-COST: Lasting cloth - thanks MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jean Waddie Thank you all for your replies on lasting cloth. I have passed them on, and I'm sure they will be much appreciated. Jean Dear list Can anyone help my reference-librarian sister with this enquiry, which is completely out of my range? Please reply to me and I will collate replies to pass on - I'm not sure what her work would think of a sudden flood of mail from the US! Thanks in advance, Jean We have had an enquiry to find out about "lasting cloth" which was apparently used for military uniforms, gunpowder magazines and even boots during the 19th century. It's for a member of staff and there is "no hurry", but we have run out of sources. Do you know of any good books on textiles/costume(or any web sites) which might tell us how it was made or anything else? All suggestions gratefully received. -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 16:10:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00700 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:10:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA22799; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:14:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA18907 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:17:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mb06.swip.net (mb06.swip.net [193.12.122.210]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA18894 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:17:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.244.199.102] (dialup199-2-38.swipnet.se [130.244.199.102]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA12965 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:17:29 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: md21199@dredd.swip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:18:34 +0100 To: H-COSTUME From: Ninni M Pettersson Subject: H-COST: Washing Chinese Silk Brocade Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ninni M Pettersson Greetings! I have a problem: Several years ago when I was in China, I bought some brocade fabric that I then vaguely thought was synthetic, primarily because it was so cheap (150 SKR for 5 meter wich would be approx. 18 dollar for 5 1/2 yard - it's very narrow though: c. 78 cm / 30 inches). However by doing the burn test on it, I've discovered since then that it's real silk! It's wonderful stuff: a very heavy, lustrous dark red satin with a brocade pattern of bamboo leaves in black and grey. Here comes the problem: I've never dealt with this kind of fabric before and I've dithered for years over what to use it for, but I'm now tentatively thinking on making an empire dress* out of it for a big event this spring. But what about washability? Prewash in lukewarm water before cutting? Or dry-cleaning after use only? But perhaps even that would shrink it? (I seem to remember someone writing something about this once on the list.) Anyone that has experience dealing with Chinese silk brocade that can give me some hints on how to handle this fabric? * For those of you who have Kybalova I'm thinking on using the dress on plate no. 808 as a starting point. It has an underdress, for which I think I'll use silver grey silk dupioni - I know *that* is easy to wash, so the brocade overdress will not need that much washing, but even so... Thanks in advance, Ninni Pettersson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 16:30:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00816 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:30:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA25113; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:34:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA20411 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:38:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA20393 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:37:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from 38.11.190.71 (ip71.phoenix.az.pub-ip.psi.net [38.11.190.71]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA01798 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:37:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B3196C.1A06@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:38:36 +0000 From: "S.B. McDaniel" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0-C-AICK1-2 (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Rayon References: <199901291419.HAA15784@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "S.B. McDaniel" Mary Denise Smith wrote: > Viscose is also reprocessed cellulose, but it retains the hand and other qualities of cotton. Living in Phoenix, where summer temps can reach 120 degrees, I can attest the the comfort of viscose rayon. My most comfortable summer garments are made of this fabric. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 16:41:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00876 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:41:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA26867; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:45:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA21330 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:49:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA21325 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:49:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from 38.11.190.71 (ip71.phoenix.az.pub-ip.psi.net [38.11.190.71]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA10562 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 13:49:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B31C07.3692@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:49:43 +0000 From: "S.B. McDaniel" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0-C-AICK1-2 (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: 'dress'- What is it?- Thanks for the replys References: <199901282331.QAA03848@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "S.B. McDaniel" Thanks to everyone for input on the nature of 'dress'. I LOVE this list! I had assumed from the context that "dress" was a fabric treatment of some sort. I have since had the opportunity to ask an elderly English friend (who sews) if she'd heard of it. She told me that the sizings used on cheap fabrics (such as Ulrica's calico) were particularly nasty, though she doesn't know what they were made of. She said that such fabrics were often sized and then starched on top of it- often to the point of breaking needles. She also said that her mother would wash such fabrics beforehand (sometimes twice), but that it wasn't commonly done because of the labor and expense of laundry in the 20s and 30s. Automatic washing machines were rare in in England in the 30s. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 16:46:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00904 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:46:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA27404; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:50:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA21703 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from aventurine.sge.net (aventurine.sge.net [152.91.14.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA21693 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:53:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from titanium.sge.net (firewall-user@titanium.sge.net [152.91.9.2]) by aventurine.sge.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA12025 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:53:51 +1100 (EST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by titanium.sge.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA07492 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:53:50 +1100 (EST) Received: from kryptonite.sge.net(10.1.2.11) by titanium.sge.net via smap (3.2) id xma007477; Sun, 31 Jan 99 08:53:26 +1100 Received: from amber. (ice-int2.sge.net [10.1.2.254]) by kryptonite.sge.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA15637 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:53:26 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199901302153.IAA15637@kryptonite.sge.net> From: WICKHAM Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: The Body Brace Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:51:33 +1100 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: WICKHAM Raymond I have been a little busy SORRY As I am in Aus It would be better to snail mail you Ray _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 17:33:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01131 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 17:33:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA02105; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:36:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA25905 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:39:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (wya-lfd105.hotmail.com [207.82.252.169]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id PAA25900 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:39:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 6057 invoked by uid 0); 30 Jan 1999 22:39:00 -0000 Message-ID: <19990130223900.6056.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.184.43.125 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:39:00 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.184.43.125] From: "christianna del Oro" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pattern instructions Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:39:00 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "christianna del Oro" Hello List Does anyone have Period Pattern #41 and maybe 40 or 42? I need a copy of the instructions for them. I moved twice since i used them and lost part of them. I really need them, these patterns are hard enough without the directions. I don't think this violates a copyright since i purchased them already. I don't want to get that discussion going again. The patterns i need are Italian Rennasiance. I will pay for shipping Thanks Christianna ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 17:43:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01183 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 17:43:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA03208; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:47:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA26820 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:51:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA26809 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:51:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from clough (207-172-36-93.s93.tnt6.ann.erols.com [207.172.36.93]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA06959 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 17:50:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 17:50:58 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901302250.RAA06959@smtp3.erols.com> X-Sender: clough@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda and Larry Clough Subject: Re: H-COST: Another Dye question, also FO Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough At 09:24 AM 1/30/99 -0800, you wrote: > >I like Procian dye quite a lot. The only thing I would caution people on is >that, by the time you buy the dye, the soda ash, Syntropol, and salt, you're >spending about $20. Sometimes worth it, sometimes not, it depends on the >project, of course. > I had a happy and successful experience dyeing rayon with Procion, but I still have nearly all of a jar of Synthrapol left over. It turns out you really don't need all that much Synthrapol to process ten hanks of rayon yarn. If anyone would like to have the jar, send me your snail address. Also, some FOs! I've made a dozen lacey Cavalier collars and almost two pairs of suede gauntlets. Somebody else is making the jerkins, thank God, but by virtue of my enormous stash of lace edgings I get to do collars. I have drawn the line at two pairs of gauntlets, because glovemaking is the very devil. Brenda Brenda W. Clough, author of HOW LIKE A GOD from Tor Books. http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 20:54:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA02208 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:54:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA25922; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 18:58:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA11880 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:02:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA11865 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.40 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 18:01:30 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Dress, Breaking Needles Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:04:05 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be4cbe$46eeb9a0$2817ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" An old Pennsylvania German folktale states, "If a needle breaks while sewing, the person for whom the dress is being made will be married before it is worn out." I wonder if in the novel referenced, the breaking of the needle might have portended this. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 21:32:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA02398 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:32:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA00700; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:36:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA17726 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:39:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA17541 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:39:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.98] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 106mn8-00030f-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 18:39:18 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990129143546.00c202d0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990129143546.00c202d0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:36:02 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Clogs in England & History In-Reply-To: <36AFC5F9.1EA5B98B@flash.net> References: <199901231140_MC2-67B9-F049@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >> I'm sending some addresses of US list members for the catalogue anyone else >> who'd like adding, speak now or forever hold your peace ! >> > >Me, too! Me, too! she cried, tripping over 3 pair of modern clogs as she >ran... I LOVE my clogs. Thanks for adding me! Me three. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 21:32:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA02396 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:32:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA00717; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:36:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA17760 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:39:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA17583 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:39:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.98] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 106mnB-00030f-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 18:39:22 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990129143821.00c22d50@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990129143821.00c22d50@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:38:55 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Neck Ruffs In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990127234501.00a53bd0@mail.interlog.com> References: <2.2.32.19990126161714.0069eec0@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Remember some of the funky perspectives which were happening >in some of the paintings. Please elabourate? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 21:32:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA02404 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:32:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA00701; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:36:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA17728 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:39:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA17571 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:39:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.98] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 106mn9-00030f-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 18:39:20 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990129143639.00c20840@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990129143639.00c20840@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:37:14 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: History of menswear In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990126105726.00c08100@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >> It wasn't till the late 1950's that men really started wearing colours >> again (except for Hawaiian shirts and the occasional cool neckties). >The >> Zoot suits in the 1940's were the first really radical change in cut in >> many decades. The English designers like Mary Quant in the early 60's put >> colour and pattern back on men, along with differently cut suits. Then all >> sartorial-**** broke loose, leading to the Hippies and the Unisex clothing >> experiments of the late 60's-early 70's. > >Yea, but that didn't last long. What didn't last long? Zoot suits? Hippies? Men in interesting clothes? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 22:19:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA02677 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:19:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA04707; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:24:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA02524 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:27:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA02513 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:27:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA20853 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:18:44 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:18:42 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: History of menswear In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990129143639.00c20840@pop.slip.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >> Zoot suits in the 1940's were the first really radical change in cut in > >> many decades. The English designers like Mary Quant in the early 60's put > >> colour and pattern back on men, along with differently cut suits. Then all > >> sartorial-**** broke loose, leading to the Hippies and the Unisex clothing > >> experiments of the late 60's-early 70's. > > > >Yea, but that didn't last long. > > What didn't last long? Zoot suits? Hippies? Men in interesting clothes? All of the above, but I was referring to interesting clothes for men. Sylvia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 22:48:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA02829 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:48:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA08082; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:52:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA19823 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:55:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy.netwizards.net (qmailr@Proxy.NetWizards.Net [206.99.115.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id UAA19815 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:55:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 11308 invoked from network); 31 Jan 1999 05:01:24 -0000 Received: from bayarea56k609.netwiz.net (HELO slave) (208.164.208.209) by proxy.netwizards.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 1999 05:01:24 -0000 Message-ID: <36B3D422.BDC@netwiz.net> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:55:14 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: synthrepol References: <199901302250.RAA06959@smtp3.erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi Brenda and Larry Clough wrote: > > I had a happy and successful experience dyeing rayon with Procion, but I > still have nearly all of a jar of Synthrapol left over. It turns out you > really don't need all that much Synthrapol to process ten hanks of rayon > yarn. If anyone would like to have the jar, send me your snail address. > I wouldn't be so quick to get rid of synthrepol! At the very least you can use it to wash delicate fabrics. If you might ever dye anything again, fabric should be pre-washed in it to prepare for dyeing. And if anything ever "runs", sometimes a re-washing in sythrepol will save the garment/fabric, etc. This just happened to me -- I washed some printed rayon fabric I had no reason to suspect would run. Some small black and dark green areas "smeared" on to the background color. A judicious application of Z'out and synthrepol got it out and saved yards of irreplaceable fabric. Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 22:59:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA02919 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:59:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA09291; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:03:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA21240 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:06:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy.netwizards.net (qmailr@Proxy.NetWizards.Net [206.99.115.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id VAA21235 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:06:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 11365 invoked from network); 31 Jan 1999 05:12:31 -0000 Received: from bayarea56k609.netwiz.net (HELO slave) (208.164.208.209) by proxy.netwizards.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 1999 05:12:31 -0000 Message-ID: <36B3D6BD.38C0@netwiz.net> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:06:21 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Washing Chinese Silk Brocade References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi Ninni M Pettersson wrote: > ... > this spring. But what about washability? Prewash in lukewarm water before > cutting? Or dry-cleaning after use only? But perhaps even that would shrink > it? (I seem to remember someone writing something about this once on the > list.) Anyone that has experience dealing with Chinese silk brocade that > can give me some hints on how to handle this fabric? Hi Ninni -- I'm not setting myself up as an expert, it's just that I've made so many mistakes, someone else might as well learn from them! I would say dry-clean only. But you could cut a square, soak it in warm soapy water and see what happens. Even if it doesn't shrink, the surface and the "hand" could be altered drastically! If you decide it is non-washable, have it *pre-shrunk* at your dry-cleaners before you cut into it. good luck, Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 23:20:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03062 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:20:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA11141; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:24:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA22669 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:27:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy.netwizards.net (qmailr@Proxy.NetWizards.Net [206.99.115.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id VAA22656 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:27:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 11731 invoked from network); 31 Jan 1999 05:33:17 -0000 Received: from bayarea56k609.netwiz.net (HELO slave) (208.164.208.209) by proxy.netwizards.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 1999 05:33:17 -0000 Message-ID: <36B3DB9D.7422@netwiz.net> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:27:09 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: RE:Dye question References: <199901301411.GAA09371@m5.sprynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi Carstensen wrote: > Hey, I think you may have just answered a question that I've been > meaning to ask the Dharma folks! :) I've been wanting to dye > some silk bright red but can't afford a steamer to use with the dyes > that are specially made for silk. I didn't want to use Procion, > either, unless I had some idea of how the color would shift. Things > turning out redder sounds like a shift in the right direction. If > anyone has gotten a nice bright red with yellow undertones on silk > using Procion, please let me know which shade you used to get it. > The problem is that the shift is unpredictable. You might get a pinky red, when you want a warm red and vice versa. If you're willing to experiment, you might get what you want, but I couldn't waste this particular fabric on experimenting. So I called Dharma and discussed it with the resident dyer. Jacquard's "Fire Red" is a good basic red, I would not call it warm. She said if I wanted a warmer red, to use a little bit of "yellow gold". (I didn't try it this time around) I also bought acid black, as it is a wonderful way to cover mistakes! (haven't tried it either, yet.) And you only need to steam those dyes or paints that you apply directly to the fabric. You don't need to steam if you are immersion dyeing. Dharma's catalogue has a recipe for using Procion w/ vinegar, and simmering on the stove. I plan to experiment with that and will carefully keep samples in my dye "diary". Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 23:24:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03080 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:24:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA11692; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:28:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA22987 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:31:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA22980 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:31:37 -0700 (MST) From: Schiap1@aol.com Received: from Schiap1@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id BJRQa19751 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:30:58 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <44c5be08.36b3dc82@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:30:58 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Re: 1950s costuming Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Schiap1@aol.com Hvae you tried Vogue patterns' website? http://www.voguepatterns.com I haven't ordered from them but they are a good source for old patterns. HTH Lyn FitzGerald _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jan 30 23:41:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03214 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:41:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA13652; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:45:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA24003 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:48:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA23991 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:48:42 -0700 (MST) From: Schiap1@aol.com Received: from Schiap1@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id BHIOa04317 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:47:56 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <21376fce.36b3e07c@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:47:56 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Unusual question (involving underwire bra attracting lightning! - read on) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Schiap1@aol.com I am working on a paper and I was wondering if anyone else knows of an incident that I remember reading in the papers years ago. I was in high school, and it was just a small snippet, a human interest with humour-type news item in the New York Daily News in the early 80s. It involved a woman in London who was walking through a park (maybe Hyde Park, but I can't remember) when she was struck by lightning. I don't think she was killed, but it was determined that it was the wire in her underwire bra that attracted the lightning. Does anyone, especially those of you in London, remember such a story? I know it was a long time ago and it wasn't a major news event when it did happen, but if anyone can fill in the blanks for me I would really appreciate it! I just need to know at least the year if not the exact date (between 1982-1984, no later than that), whether it was Hyde Park, and if she did in fact survive (I don't want to say that she did if she was killed, but I really don't think she was killed). Anyway, this is a strange and probably impossible request, but if this story stuck in anyone else's mind as it did mine (for some strange reason!) I would appreciate it if you could help me! Thanks in advance, Lyn FitzGerald _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 00:02:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA03323 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:02:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA15849; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:06:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA25469 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:10:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (root@jefferson.patriot.net [206.151.9.249]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA25459 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:09:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.151.9.19] (th-0-10.patriot.net [206.151.9.19]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA27020 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:04:55 -0500 Message-Id: <199901310504.AAA27020@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Unusual question (involving underwire bra attractin Date: Sun, 31 Jan 99 00:09:21 -0500 x-sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lyn wrote, >It involved a woman in London who was walking through a park (maybe Hyde >Park, but I can't remember) when she was struck by lightning. I don't >think she was killed, but it was determined that it was the wire in her >underwire bra that attracted the lightning. I don't know about that one, but a woman was struck by lightening at a stadium (outdoor) concert in the Washington, DC area this past summer. It was covered extensively by the Washington Post, including in the health section. (You can probably find the stories online.) She survived, and had burns on her chest due to her underwire bra. It was thought that the lightening may have been attracted by the cell phone she was using, though. -Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 00:15:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA04000 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:15:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA17338; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:19:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA27291 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:22:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA27284 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:22:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from 38.11.190.71 (ip83.phoenix8.az.pub-ip.psi.net [38.29.61.83]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA11865 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:22:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B38658.4B24@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:23:20 +0000 From: "S.B. McDaniel" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0-C-AICK1-2 (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Dress, Breaking Needles References: <199901310427.VAA22678@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "S.B. McDaniel" > -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > An old Pennsylvania German folktale states, "If a needle > breaks while sewing, the person for whom the dress is being > made will be married before it is worn out." I wonder if in > the novel referenced, the breaking of the needle might have > portended this. Ulrica is a 14 year old convent boarding student in 1938- so... it's possible she could be married before the nightdress wears out. A marriage for her does not figure in the plot, though. Any other Gladys Mitchell fans who've read her entire works-- Does Ulrica figure in another novel as a bride? Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 03:15:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA11044 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 03:15:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA29794; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:19:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA07928 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:22:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA07902 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:22:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.100] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 106s9B-00002l-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:22:25 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990130191053.00c46930@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:11:44 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: cloth-of-gold: fakin' it In-Reply-To: References: <199901281212.HAA23783@mail.niagara.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I hate to advise chopping it up for applique, but that's where it would go the farthest. > I have been reading all the descriptions of cloth-of-gold until >my mouth waters and I want to DO something. A while ago I found >a supply of pre-Lurex metal thread. Some of it has that lovely, >rich patina that can only come from age and real metal. Now >I want to weave with the stuff. If I did, what would I use >it for? Any suggestions? Selling it is probably not an option. >It would cost like the real thing, once all my time was factored Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 03:15:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA11047 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 03:15:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA29808; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:19:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA07937 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:22:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA07907 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:22:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.100] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 106s9C-00002l-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:22:27 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990130192132.00c45100@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 19:23:41 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: menswear In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Ever since the Hippies, men have been having more and more fun with clothes. They get to wear colourful shirts, they get to wear egregious neckties, and they get to wear other things men haven't worn for centuries, like earrings and purse-like caryalls. The styles went mainstream as soon as the subculture folks got tired of them. >it wasnt that these styles didnt last long (im even told that in la the >retro-swing kid scene has brought the zoot back) but that they werent the >"norm" - typically these colorful styles are worn only by fashion >subcultures, not by the general populace. the more outrageous mens styles >mentioned generally dont reach mainstream acceptance until they are >seriously toned down. >allison > >- -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > >On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> >> It wasn't till the late 1950's that men really started wearing colours >> again (except for Hawaiian shirts and the occasional cool neckties). >The >> Zoot suits in the 1940's were the first really radical change in cut in >> many decades. The English designers like Mary Quant in the early 60's put >> colour and pattern back on men, along with differently cut suits. Then >all >> sartorial-**** broke loose, leading to the Hippies and the Unisex clothing >> experiments of the late 60's-early 70's. > >Yea, but that didn't last long. >Sylvia > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 03:15:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA11051 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 03:15:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA29869; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:19:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA07960 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:22:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA07918 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:22:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.100] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 106s9E-00002l-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:22:28 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990130225210.00c41360@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:38:52 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: [H-Costume] Lockram -- What was it's use? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >My friend, deep in his thesis, has a question I do not know the answer for, >so I refer it to you all: Here's one for you: what was lockram used for? >It was a linen cloth, and it was imported to Lyme Regis in the mid-17th >century in large quantities. Lyme was a spinning and weaving town, >and its two main imports were raw wool and lockram ... I'm thinking that >lockram was a lining fabric, and that they're producing some finished >garments (which don't show up in port records because, unlike wool and >lockram, they're not subject to customs). Aryk > If you have the answer, please write to me privately, with the sources >for your info., if there are any, and I will be very pleased to send them >to Aryk. I know he w/b most grateful. >Thank you for your time, the bandwidth & your aid. Carol J. Bell Cannon >From my Century Cyclopedia (1906): "a kind of unbleached linen, so called from the place where it was made, Locrenan, in Brittany" and "n. 1. A kind of linen, usually of a coarse and cheap sort. 'Lokeram for shetes and smockes and shirtes.' Sir T.Elyot, 'The Govenour', Apendix A. 'Edge me the sleeves with Coventry blue, and let the linings be of ten-penny lockram.' Greene, 'James IV' 'Why should I bend to her?--Is it because her kirtle is of silk, and mine of blue lockram?' Scott, 'Abbot', ii" Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 03:15:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA11055 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 03:15:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA29883; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:19:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA07966 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:22:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA07926 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:22:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.100] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 106s9G-00002l-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:22:30 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990130232054.00c4b860@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:50:18 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: jean, denim In-Reply-To: <71608674.36b1c866@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Century Cyclopedia (1906): "jean (jan*),n. [See jane]" "2. A twilled cotton cloth, used both for underwear and for outer clothing: commonly, of garments, in the plural. Also written jane. 'You most coarse frieze capacities, ye jane judgements.' Fletcher (and another), 'Two Noble Kinsmen', iii. 5. 'Clean was his linen, and his jacket blue: Of finest jean his trousers, tight and trim.' Crabbe, 'The Parish Register' 'He was a tall, lank countryman, clad in a suit of country jeans.' Tourglee, 'A Fool's Eramd', p. 26. Satin jean, a thick cotton cloth, a variety of jean, with a glossy surface: used for shoes and for similar purposes." "jane (jan*), n. [Also written jean; Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA11059 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 03:15:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA29903; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:19:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA07974 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:22:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA07934 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:22:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.100] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 106s9I-00002l-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:22:32 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990130235159.00c48ce0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:52:26 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: Garb for large men, additional In-Reply-To: <199901291706.JAA15718@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>As for getting them to wear the waistband around their waist and not their >>hips, if you ever discover a method you'll probably make a fortune selling >>it. :) >I > >I'm considering a staplegun. You call yourself a costumer? Hot glue! Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 03:16:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA11066 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 03:16:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA29922; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:19:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA07976 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:22:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA07941 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:22:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.100] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 106s9J-00002l-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:22:34 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990130235508.00c506b0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:56:32 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Menswear - yet another theory In-Reply-To: <19990129.125153.13374.6.seamstrix@juno.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19990129120700.00944160@130.149.12.212> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows A quick look thru history will confirm that >long-term civilization (Ancient Egyptian anyone?) and subdued clothing >are not neccessarily the same thing. Yeah - try China, speaking of a long term civilization with seriously adorned men. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 03:16:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA11070 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 03:16:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA29958; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:19:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA07985 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:22:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA07953 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:22:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.100] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 106s9L-00002l-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:22:35 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990131000329.00c48de0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:07:44 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Garb thoughts for large men In-Reply-To: <36bc8928.304576810@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <6BAA9E7DB36AD2118FA60060943F1CAF1466C8@oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu> <6BAA9E7DB36AD2118FA60060943F1CAF1466C8@oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >If you are willing to go that late, 1500's German costume is quite >attractive on the larger gentleman. If he wants to cover his legs, >pluderhose are very effective, and will still show off the butt >nicely. (Silly to mention, but this might be a concern...) Earlier in the 1500's the Germans were wearing a robe which looks like an ankle-length Henry VIII "overcoat" or a judge's robe (in fact the judge's robe of today derives from this garment). Scholars and clerics and older men wore them closed, and younger men wore them open. Skinny guys look upholstered in them but larger men look like Henry VIII. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 03:16:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA11074 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 03:16:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA29950; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:19:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA07986 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:22:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA07959 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:22:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.100] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 106s9N-00002l-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:22:38 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990131000826.00c4d2e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:11:19 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: More On Jean Cloth In-Reply-To: <36B2898E.31BAE14@earthlink.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >But I KNOW that someone has done some solid research into Levi Strauss, >and it shouldn't be too hard to find- I just don't have that kind of time >right now... The way I heard it Mr. Levi Strauss was able to get his cloth from the sails of the ships abandoned in the San Francisco bay when the crews deserted for the gold fields. Second-hand sail cloth was really cheap right then, as was floating warehouse space. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 10:15:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA13206 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:15:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA17878; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:19:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA22063 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:22:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA22054; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:22:12 -0700 (MST) From: Luiseach@aol.com Received: from Luiseach@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id JMYPa20553; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:21:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6d2c6f7.36b474f2@aol.com> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:21:22 EST To: owner-h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: H-COST: RE:Dye question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Luiseach@aol.com In a message dated 01/30/99 09:55:19 AM, Sylvia R wrote: <> 800 Number or URL please. Lucinda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 10:41:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA13332 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:41:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA19674; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:46:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA23693 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:49:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA23685 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:48:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from sue.computercrafters.com (pm3frd1-68-110.intrepid.net [206.102.68.110]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA00110 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:48:55 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990131105932.00860b90@intrepid.net> X-Sender: sshatto@intrepid.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:59:32 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sue Shatto Subject: H-COST: Wish List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sue Shatto Brenda I have teens dress in both taupe and lavender (I called it lilac). They are c001 and c002 in the clothes closet on my website. The address is on my signature. Cordially, Sue Shatto Sue@VictorianMillinery.com http://www.VictorianMillinery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 11:38:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13656 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:38:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA24230; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 09:41:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA28088 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 09:44:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA28082 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 09:44:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from clough (207-172-38-55.s55.tnt8.ann.erols.com [207.172.38.55]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA28783 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:44:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:44:13 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901311644.LAA28783@smtp2.erols.com> X-Sender: clough@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda and Larry Clough Subject: Re: H-COST: synthrepol Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough At 07:55 PM 1/30/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Susan Fatemi > >Brenda and Larry Clough wrote: >> >> I had a happy and successful experience dyeing rayon with Procion, but I >> still have nearly all of a jar of Synthrapol left over. It turns out you >> really don't need all that much Synthrapol to process ten hanks of rayon >> yarn. If anyone would like to have the jar, send me your snail address. >> > >I wouldn't be so quick to get rid of synthrepol! At the very >least you can use it to wash delicate fabrics. If you might >ever dye anything again, fabric should be pre-washed in it >to prepare for dyeing. And if anything ever "runs", sometimes >a re-washing in sythrepol will save the garment/fabric, etc. > >This just happened to me -- I washed some printed rayon fabric >I had no reason to suspect would run. Some small black and dark >green areas "smeared" on to the background color. A judicious >application of Z'out and synthrepol got it out and saved yards >of irreplaceable fabric. > >Susan F. I worry how long this stuff will -last- in the jar, however. I have some stuff for washing woolen sweaters in, that has set up like jello, I've kept it so long! Brenda Brenda W. Clough, author of HOW LIKE A GOD from Tor Books. http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 12:39:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14034 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:39:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA29581; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:44:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA03507 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:47:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA03496 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:47:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from stassja.bellatlantic.net (client-125-97.bellatlantic.net [151.198.125.97]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA09469 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:46:58 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990131124831.00a08f0c@postoffice3.bellatlantic.net> X-Sender: stassja@postoffice3.bellatlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:48:33 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: "Mariea M. Goodinson-Dillenkofer" Subject: H-COST: 1950's costuming - success! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Mariea M. Goodinson-Dillenkofer" Hi all ! After checking out the websites for Vogue Patterns and all the rest, I went to JoAnn Fabrics (thanks for the info on the sale, Lynn D.!!!) and spent a looong time looking through. The Vogue Patterns were indeed 70% off! However, I found a Simplicity Style bridal pattern that better suited my needs (includes a bolero which I wanted to make to go with the dress). The Vogue pattern takes less fabric in the skirt but I liked the variety in the Style pattern and, besides, it's easy enough to take OUT of a pattern. I'm pretty pleased. :) Also picked up a pattern for cloaks and another for a long princess seam dress (easy cotehardie type) and, well, just went nuts buying patterns for business and daywear (McCalls patterns 99 cents & Simplicity half price!!!). Mostly going for the 1930's, 40's and 50's look personally (suits me better than the new straight styles) plus I have a lovely 1950's pattern for a suit that I'll hopefully have soon which I just won in an auction on eBay (yes, I leave no stone unturned - my middle name should be "Relentless"). I should add, all of the 50's prom dress patterns I saw on eBay were too small for me and, while I can make a pattern smaller, I have a tough time enlarging. Can everyone see I'm smiling as I write this! If there's a word that can cheer me up in a heartbeat, it's "sale" - 4 lovely little letters to live by. ;) Thanks to all of you for your support! Now I've just got to get my sewing room set up and go go go!!! Rie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 12:53:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14141 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:53:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA01123; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:58:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA04888 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:01:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail5.austin.rr.com (fe5.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.52]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA04872 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:01:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from cs63-200.austin.rr.com ([24.93.63.200]) by mail5.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:00:45 -0600 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST 1880's evening corsage? Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:10:02 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <36bc9bde.440459505@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <36b45b21.358337511@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <36b45b21.358337511@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id MAA14141 Status: O -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) Okay, I'm asking this becuase I'm curious, *NOT* because I'm selling it or interested in buying it. Someone elase told me about it. Does anyone have ANY idea if this is a correct identification for this item? I really *am* genuinely curious. StrangeGirl Margery Rio -----rio@austin.rr.com---Goddess of Last Minute Miracles--- "We went out with both lips blazing, and a pen in either hand..." - the Flash Girls -{*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*}- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 13:46:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA14402 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:46:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA05425; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:51:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA08944 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:53:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA08936 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:53:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port024.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.24]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id TAA12954 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 19:53:49 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36B129C5.34D36DF6@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:23:54 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Costume Con X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef Hello out there! Can anybody tell me what happens at a costume con? I`m only familiar with science fiction cons where also a special costume competition takes place. What else does take place during a costume con? Diana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 14:25:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14604 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:25:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA09548; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:30:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA12313 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:32:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA12306 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:32:52 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id SGWIa03214 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:31:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:31:58 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: margo's pricing Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Margo, you're too expensive -- for that client, obviously. It doesn't matter how much clothing goes for in a store -- if she doesn't buy that kind of clothing, then she doesn't buy it. I was in a wedding this year, and my bridesmaid dress (in an upscale wedding shop in Cincinnati, Ohio) cost about $200. It was not silk. I bought it to be in the wedding. I would never pay anything near $200 for any other garment. I am sure that a silk chiffon dress as you described would be worth $300, but I need to spend my money on other things. About the most I would consider -- and then only if it was for something incredibly special -- would be $100. I would probably check resale shops and super sales to see if I could get something that was worth more. So the point is -- maybe this lady just isn't accustomed to buying the kind of dresses that cost $300. It isn't any reflection on you at all. And frankly, if I sewed for a living I'd want to sew for the people who ARE accustomed to spending lots of money! Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 14:34:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14648 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:34:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA10391; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:39:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA13024 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:42:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA12939 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:41:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnaco.net (pm3-1-43.dnaco.net [207.238.206.143]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA12371 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:44:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36B4B1F1.2C30539A@dnaco.net> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:41:37 -0500 From: Christine Krebs-Bonder <2maples@dnaco.net> Organization: Two Maples X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pattern instructions References: <19990130223900.6056.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christine Krebs-Bonder <2maples@dnaco.net> If you email me your address I can snail mail the instructions to you. I agree you need the instructions to put these outfits together. Christine Krebs-Bonder Dayton, OH christianna del Oro wrote: > -Poster: "christianna del Oro" > > Hello List > > Does anyone have Period Pattern #41 and maybe 40 or 42? > I need a copy of the instructions for them. I moved twice since > i used them and lost part of them. I really need them, these patterns > are hard enough without the directions. I don't think this violates a > copyright since i purchased them already. I don't want to get that > discussion going again. The patterns i need are Italian Rennasiance. > I will pay for shipping > > Thanks > Christianna > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 15:01:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14805 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:01:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA13123; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:04:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA14759 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:06:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA14743 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:06:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from tymeportal.com (client-151-196-125-99.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.99]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA15533 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:06:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36B4B7D0.417AA692@tymeportal.com> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:06:40 -0500 From: Anah X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume Con References: <36B129C5.34D36DF6@ndh.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Anah hey! did yu get it yet? I got word that it was at customs. Andrea Clef wrote: > > -Poster: Andrea Clef > > Hello out there! > > Can anybody tell me what happens at a costume con? > I`m only familiar with science fiction cons where also a special costume > competition > takes place. > > What else does take place during a costume con? > > Diana > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 15:04:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14821 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:04:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA13411; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:07:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA15106 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:09:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.157]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA15091 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:09:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from tymeportal.com (client-151-196-125-99.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.99]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA13539 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:11:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36B4B889.3A330F82@tymeportal.com> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:09:45 -0500 From: Anah X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: OOPS!!! H-COST: Costume Con References: <36B129C5.34D36DF6@ndh.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Anah ARG! sorry everyone! that was supposed to go private _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 16:08:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA15241 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:08:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAB22048; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:13:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA21476 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:16:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from oak.ait.fredonia.edu (oak.ait.fredonia.edu [141.238.1.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id OAA21445 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:15:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from [141.238.21.208] by oak.ait.fredonia.edu (NTMail 3.03.0018/1.aapi) with ESMTP id qa983258 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:13:07 -0500 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Carol Blanchard" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:14:36 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: synthrepol Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.32a) Message-Id: <21130735433688@ait.fredonia.edu> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol Blanchard" > > I worry how long this stuff will -last- in the jar, however. I have some > stuff for washing woolen sweaters in, that has set up like jello, I've kept > it so long! > > Brenda > Brenda W. Clough, author of HOW LIKE A GOD from Tor Books. > http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda Don't worry about how long it lasts. I keep it in the costume shop for students to use in both classes and production work. I've had one gallon on the shelf for at least five years before I found it last Sept. It's still good and we're using it now. Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 16:18:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA15291 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:18:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA23474; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:23:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA22443 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:26:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA22433 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:26:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA27006 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:17:51 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:17:50 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Re: H-COST: RE:Dye question In-Reply-To: <6d2c6f7.36b474f2@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > -Poster: Luiseach@aol.com > > <> > > 800 Number or URL please. > 800-845-7455. Sylvia R _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 17:02:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA15537 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 17:02:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA29658; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:07:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA26847 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:09:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.mindspring.com (smtp2.mindspring.com [207.69.200.32]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA26837 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:09:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (user-37ka9es.dialup.mindspring.com [207.69.37.220]) by smtp2.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA13644 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 17:09:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001601be4d66$5ede9140$dc2545cf@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: H-COST: Silk Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 17:09:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Megan McHugh" Just got back from Joann Fabric with the steal of the day. I found a bolt of 7 1/2 yards of 100% silk suiting, coarse weave, in a cranberry color. Did I mention it was a bargain fabric at 50% off, turned out to be $2.44/yd???!!!!! Now for the questions...... it says professional cleaning only - can this be hand washed? Will it fade/shrink badly? What about ideas for what to make out of it. I do mostly SCA-type costuming. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 22:06:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17473 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:06:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA29548; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:09:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA11024 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:11:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA11013; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:11:34 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:11:34 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902010311.UAA11013@indra.com> From: Renata McAdams To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Doll maker's list? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Renata McAdams Hi Ninni, If you are interested in cloth dollmaking, there is a great fiber artists' list called Clothtalk that I belong to. You can subscribe by e-mailing: Listserv@home.ease.LSoft.com Do not key in anything in the subject line and in the body of the e-mail type: subscribe clothtalk Renata McAdams renatamc@bellsouth.net Raleigh, NC Ninni M Pettersson wrote: > -Poster: Ninni M Pettersson > > Greetings! > > A little while ago someone wrote about a special doll maker's list. > I thought I had kept that message, but now that I need it, I of course find > that I haven't :-) So please, whoever you are, will you send that info to > me? > > Thanks in advance, > Ninni Pettersson > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 22:09:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17493 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:09:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA00414; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:12:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA11347 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:15:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA11326; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:15:05 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:15:05 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902010315.UAA11326@indra.com> From: "Stapelton, Gregory" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Glass Aglets Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Stapelton, Gregory" Greetings, Everyone, from Gawain Kilgore, If eveyrone would be so kind as to indulge me, I would like to pose the following question: Can anyone point me to documentation of glass aglets in use in period. I have a friend who is desperately searching for this information and can't find it. She swears up and down that she found a passing mention of them in a book / article by Janet Arnold a few years ago, but has been unable to find the reference again. Any help will be greatly appreciated. My "Thanks" in advance. Yours In Service, Gawain Kilgore _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 22:13:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17517 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:13:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA01559; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:18:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA12042 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:20:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA12032; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:20:42 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:20:42 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902010320.UAA12032@indra.com> From: "Stapelton, Gregory" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Garb for large men, additional Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Stapelton, Gregory" Being one of these large men and sitting or rather standing through fittings by my wonderful, lovely Lady Wife and then wearing the garb, perhaps I can shed a small twinkle of light. My wife takes patterns of the largest size she can then fits them on me as they seem to best fit then she adds additional paper to these patterns to fill it out to the correct size. It works great for her because she's a pattern person. She always manages to get a good fit. That's how she learned. It drives me nuts. I'm a sloper person and I think you get the best fit by making a sloper of the garment, getting a good fit and then cutting the real fabric. I get excellent results, usually as good as my wife's. How I do it is I make the sloper larger than I know I'll need and then I put it on and have my wife pin, cut, ease and take it up on me. I find that the single best easy garb for men of my size, which looks very good, is the cotehardie. It's only draw back is a lot of buttons down the front and the under sleeves. It looks very sharp. The only thing I recommend watching out for, since it's a closely fitted garment is to make sure to each the underarms and make sure they are comfortable, not binding or too tight. YIS, Gawain Kilgore _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 22:13:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17521 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:13:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA01162; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:16:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA11825 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:18:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA11817; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:18:48 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:18:48 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902010318.UAA11817@indra.com> From: Sidne Kneeland To: Historic Costume List Subject: H-COST: how to - cummerbund for "smallish" boy Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sidne Kneeland Greetings list, I need to make a cummerbund for a very active 4-1/2 yo boy, black fabric. Yes, I have the poor child in a dance class, tap. They are having a program later this spring. Yes, he is VERY active, stress on the VERY part. Just so we stay on historic topic, does anybody know about the origins of the cummerbund? Time frame and location of origin? dictionary says Hindi. ? Thanks, Sidne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 22:17:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17552 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:17:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA02157; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA12583 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:24:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA12575; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:24:29 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:24:29 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902010324.UAA12575@indra.com> From: Andrea Clef To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: CostumeCon Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef Hello out there! What does take place exactly at a costume con? Over here such an event doesn`t exist, I know only science fiction cons which include a costume competition. Is there anything except the competition during a costume con? Diana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 22:43:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17690 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:43:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA05065; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:46:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA15460 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:49:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA15448 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:49:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r2p3.directcon.net [209.77.71.52]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA20037 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 19:43:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 19:43:48 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902010343.TAA20037@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Glass Aglets Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 08:15 PM 1/31/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Stapelton, Gregory" > > >Greetings, Everyone, from Gawain Kilgore, > >If eveyrone would be so kind as to indulge me, I would like to pose the >following question: > >Can anyone point me to documentation of glass aglets in use in period. I >have a friend who is desperately searching for this information and can't >find it. She swears up and down that she found a passing mention of them in >a book / article by Janet Arnold a few years ago, but has been unable to >find the reference again. The glass aglets are in Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd, page 327 (fig 426). They look remarkably similar to some Christmas tree icicles I've seeen.. Hmmm.... Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 23:39:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA18017 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:39:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA11181; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:44:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA21867 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:46:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us (root@scls1.suffolk.lib.ny.us [199.173.91.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA21860 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:46:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from bchamber (dial-in51.suffolk.lib.ny.us [199.173.93.51]) by bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA26206 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:42:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000201be4d9d$f77b26c0$335dadc7@bchamber> From: "Beth" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Question on Rayon - clarifications Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:39:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Beth" Rayon and acetate are actually two different fibers - both being produced by chemically altering plant fibers. There are several methods of producing rayon - the viscose method is currently the most common. Acetate is produced with somewhat similar methods but different chemicals. Rayon is wet spun and acetate is dry spun. When you see yard goods or clothing marked viscose rayon they are incorrectly labeled, according to the Textile Fiber Products Identification Act they are two distinctly separate fibers. Both are weaker when wet. This would be a concern if sweat is really an issue. Rayon also tends to "grow" , usually in length, in damp climates. The pants may get longer and longer as the day goes by. Rayon is slightly more absorbent than cotton, while acetate is slightly less absorbent. Anyone who is a real glutton for punishment and/or misses their chemistry class days look at "Textile fabrics and their selection" by Isabel Wingate. Beth -----Original Message----- From: Mary Denise Smith To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, January 29, 1999 9:09 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: Question on Rayon > >-Poster: Mary Denise Smith > >Hello List, > >A clarification on rayon is needed. There are two basic types of rayon, acetate and viscose. > >Acetate is the nasty shiny stuff that is often quite cheap and commonly used as linings. It is not >dyefast, underarm sweat stains it and it will go to shreds in the washer. True, it is reprocessed >cellulose, but it is SO processed that it is only barely cellulose anymore. > >Viscose is also reprocessed cellulose, but it retains the hand and other qualities of cotton. Soft, >drapey, wrinkles but the wrinkles fall out in humid weather (makes for good wearing in climates east >of the Colorado/Kansas border), takes dyes dramatically. It absorbs water easily (hence the easy >shedding of wrinkles). Depending on the quality of the spinning/weaving, it can pill and look >shabby. Good quality viscose rayon is an absolute delight. Poor quality is a pain in the butt. > >Hope this helps, > >Mary Denise Smith > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 23:57:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA18158 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:57:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA13297; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:02:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA23530 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:05:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id WAA23504 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:05:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 8979 invoked from network); 1 Feb 1999 05:08:06 -0000 Received: from tntmodem1-185.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.133.185) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 1999 05:08:06 -0000 Message-ID: <36B55AED.82C@mc.net> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:42:37 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: CostumeCon References: <199902010349.UAA15469@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Hi, Diana A costumeCon has two masquerade competitions, one historical and one science fiction fantasy. The scifi/fantasy masquerade is a lot like WorldCon's, but for the historical one, a lot of documentation is required and is part of the contest. The more recent CostumeCons have also included a Future Fashion folio which is done before the convention.Costumers send in designs and people, sometimes including the designer, choose a costume to make up and bring to the convention. There are also dozens of workshops and panels, plus an evening social for the first evening and a hospitality suite for most of the convention. Try to imagine WorldCon with everyone interested in costume and almost everyone wearing costume a great deal of the time. Like WorldCon, BTW, it travels. Next year it will be in New England, last year it was in St. Louis, and there is currently an Australian bid. I recommend checking http://www.libertynet.org/dvcg/ccxvii.html for information on this years' CostumeCon. Carol Mitchell President Chicagoland Costumer's Guild (chapter of the International Costumer's Guild www.costume.org) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 00:10:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA18870 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:10:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA15120; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:15:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA24760 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:17:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id WAA24755 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:17:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 13176 invoked from network); 1 Feb 1999 05:20:33 -0000 Received: from tntmodem1-185.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.133.185) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 1999 05:20:33 -0000 Message-ID: <36B55DD8.4F8B@mc.net> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:55:04 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: denim References: <199901311644.JAA28104@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law I jsut heard today about a really ridiculous happening. It seems that someone who was in charge of some teenagers informed them that because there was only one letter difference between denim and demon-that's right, she didn't know how to spell either-that there had to be a connection between the two words. I told the person who'd overheard the story that denim derived from "de Nimes", but of course he isn't about to inform her-especially because she'd probably then accuse him of demonology. Carol Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 00:17:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA18903 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:17:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA16181; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:22:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA25688 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:24:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA25679 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:24:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.130] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 107Bqt-0001YA-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:24:51 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:25:31 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: denim In-Reply-To: <36B55DD8.4F8B@mc.net> References: <199901311644.JAA28104@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 11:55 PM 1/31/99 -0800, you wrote: -Poster: Heather Law It seems that >someone who was in charge of some teenagers informed them that because >there was only one letter difference between denim and demon- Well, if you've ever tried to sew welted seams or through several layers of good weight denim w/o an industrial machine and needles, perhaps you'll understand her viewpoint. :-) that's >right, she didn't know how to spell either-that there had to be a >connection between the two words. I told the person who'd overheard the >story that denim derived from "de Nimes", but of course he isn't about >to inform her-especially because she'd probably then accuse him of >demonology. >Carol Mitchell That is a sad thing, and all too likely true, at that. However, it might be possible to educate the lady who was suffering under that misapprehension if your friend had an atlas/map to point to Nimes with and explained that 'de' simply means 'of' in French--if he cared to, that is. Easier still, if he knows any of the teens to explain it to that teen and let him/her set the others straight. Carol J. Bell Cannon _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 00:47:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA19052 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:47:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA20991; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA27692 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:54:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from eterna.binary.net (eterna.binary.net [12.13.84.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA27686 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:54:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup.binary.net (lnk1-ppp-24.binary.net [207.140.121.24]) by eterna.binary.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA03056 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:54:22 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990131235333.006e2218@binary.net> X-Sender: costumrs@binary.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:53:33 -0600 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: Costume Con In-Reply-To: <199902010349.UAA15469@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger >From: Andrea Clef >Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:24:29 -0700 (MST) >Subject: H-COST: CostumeCon > >- -Poster: Andrea Clef > >What does take place exactly at a costume con? > >Is there anything except the competition during a costume con? > >Diana > Costume Con is a wonderful event that is very informative and great fun for any type of costumer. There are two competitions: a fantasy/science fiction one, and a historical one. Documentation is required for the Historical masquerade, but that doesn't mean that it is deadly serious. One can make a dynamite, dead-on historical entry that is also fun. There is also a Future Fashion Design competition that takes place in the months prior to the con, with the winners published in a Folio. Members may then choose a design to make and wear in a Fashion Show. Recently, another aspect has been included in the Fashion Show: a Single Pattern contest. One or two patterns are chosen, then the entrants make them up in any interpretation they want - the only caveat being that it be recognizable as that pattern. The rest of the four days are taken up with panels (seminars) and hands-on workshops on all aspects of costume construction and presentation. They cover both fantasy and historical techniques, and many general ones as well (Safety issues with materials, presentation and movement, fitting, etc.) There is usually a themed social event on Friday night, this year's is Gilbert and Sullivan. This year's is Feb. 12-15 in Philadelphia (actually Cherry Hill, NJ), next year's is Memorial Day weekend in Hartford, CT, and 2001 will be Memorial Day weekend in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. We'd love to see you there! Pierre and Sandy Pettinger, who have attended all but 3 of the 17 Costume Cons so far. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 02:02:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA19695 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:02:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA29038; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:07:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA02370 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:09:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f56.hotmail.com [207.82.251.68]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id AAA02364 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:09:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 3252 invoked by uid 0); 1 Feb 1999 07:09:20 -0000 Message-ID: <19990201070920.3251.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.30.116.93 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:09:19 PST X-Originating-IP: [209.30.116.93] From: "Jeannie Harwell" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: z'out/synthrapol and Help! Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:09:19 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Jeannie Harwell" Hi! I'm delurking and have two questions I could really use help with: 1) on a previous posting: >This just happened to me -- I washed some printed rayon fabric >I had no reason to suspect would run. Some small black and dark >green areas "smeared" on to the background color. A judicious >application of Z'out and synthrepol got it out and saved yards >of irreplaceable fabric. My first question is, what is Z'out and how is it different from Synthrapol and where would one acquire it? Would this help on below? Or perhaps someone might have another suggestion? --the problem is I *had* to wash a quilt my grandmother gave me (first one she ever made and each block her family and neighbors embroidered their names and the date (1942), so is very very sentimental)---anyhow, the backing was pink and it bled when washed (cold water, too) and now all the white blocks on the front are pink too :( I've been hoping there might be someway to reverse or lift out the bled dye, but am reluctant to experiment (and maybe make it worse) unless I feel I have a shot at fixing it. It hasn't been washed again since it bled. 2) Ok, question two: A family friend gave me what she said is some fine Irish linen that is 90 inches wide and quite long, that she ordered from Neiman's in the 60's and was going to use for a formal table cloth and never did (and it's unfinished cloth, raw edges). It's very delicate, about the weight of batiste or light cotton. The problem is that she stored it in the orignal box she received it in and now the edges that were folded and touching the box are yellowed from what I presume is the acid in the box. Is there some way to restore it and get the yellowing out? Any suggestions? And as long as we're on the subject suggestions on what to do with the cloth? Thought about finishing the table cloth and possibly bobbin-lace insets at the corners or along the edge?? Hate to cut it up...but hate worse for it to lie in a box. BTW, I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this list and have found it very inspirational :) Very nice group of people :) Thanks for your help and suggestions in advance! Jeannie Grainne Finneadan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 12:16:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29273 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:16:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA18764; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:22:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA24076 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:23:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA24032 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:23:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port123.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.123]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id SAA05482 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:23:38 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36B14E1B.70AE95BD@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:58:54 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: CostumeCon X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------6F14AB7EBF4E11E195C2DA5A" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef --------------6F14AB7EBF4E11E195C2DA5A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Hi, > > You've had the answers to the "What is CostumeCon?" question, now I > have to ask, what/where do you mean by "over here".....? > Thank you very much for your detailed answers. The event sounds wonderful and as you already gave me the dates of years to come, I might be able to plan for a stay in the States (or Australia!). By "over here" I mean Germany and as far as I`m informed the rest of Europe as well. But maybe there are Costume Cons in the UK? They seem to have everything I miss in this country ;-)... (a costume society, a Victorian society etc. ...) Greetings, Diana --------------6F14AB7EBF4E11E195C2DA5A Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 

Hi,

You've had the answers to the "What is CostumeCon?" question, now I 
have to ask, what/where do you mean by "over here".....?

Thank you very much for your detailed answers.
The event sounds wonderful and as you already gave me the dates of years to come,
I might be able to plan for a stay in the States (or Australia!).

By "over here" I mean Germany and as far as I`m informed the rest of Europe as well.
But maybe there are Costume Cons in the UK?
They seem to have everything I miss in this country ;-)...  (a costume society, a Victorian
society etc. ...)

Greetings,
Diana --------------6F14AB7EBF4E11E195C2DA5A-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 00:45:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA04202 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:45:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA10664; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:50:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA15334 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:52:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA15309 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:52:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.194] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 107Ykx-0005AK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:52:15 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990131002337.009276f0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990131002337.009276f0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:24:55 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Washing Chinese Silk Brocade In-Reply-To: <36B3D6BD.38C0@netwiz.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >> this spring. But what about washability? Prewash in lukewarm water before >> cutting? Or dry-cleaning after use only? But perhaps even that would shrink >> it? (I seem to remember someone writing something about this once on the >> list.) Anyone that has experience dealing with Chinese silk brocade that >> can give me some hints on how to handle this fabric? > >Hi Ninni -- > >I'm not setting myself up as an expert, it's just that I've made >so many mistakes, someone else might as well learn from them! > I would say dry-clean only. But you could cut a square, >soak it in warm soapy water and see what happens. Even if it >doesn't shrink, the surface and the "hand" could be altered >drastically! > If you decide it is non-washable, have it *pre-shrunk* >at your dry-cleaners before you cut into it. I heard a VietNamese woman say that since there were no dry cleaners in VietNam (she said that) she washed all her silk stuff in cheap baby shampoo. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 14:08:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03277 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:08:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA01411; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:13:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA08744 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:14:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA08726 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:14:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port1081.koeln.ndh.net [195.227.37.81]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id UAA12185 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:14:30 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36B1B697.E982C474@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:24:42 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: CostumeCon X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef I knew there must be something like a Costume Convention in the UK! I love this country and it`s far too long ago that I visited there, so maybe I could combine the next visit and a costume con! Thanks for the info, I`ll keep looking for everything on that topic. I also heard that there is something like a reenactment fair taking place each year in the UK. There one can get nearly everything dealing with reenactment (also costumes) from all kind of periods. If anybody has got info about that, please mail me privately, thanks! Many greetings, Diana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 15:24:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03717 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:24:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA12498; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:30:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA22005 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:32:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA21980 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:32:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port1027.koeln.ndh.net [195.227.37.27]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id VAA25280 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:31:58 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36B1BE7A.9075C112@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:58:19 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Favourite Costumes X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef Hello everybody! This is just a question out of personal interest: What are your favourite costumes or periods in historical dress? If you have a favourite period, do you have a special need for the costumes, e.g. some certain period reenactment? I would also be glad if those of you who have an own costume business, could tell me in which costumes or periods they specialize and if such a thing exists, give me the adress of their homepages? Please, mail that privately to me as I believe this is off topic for the list. Thanks, Diana a.clef@ndh.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 12:31:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17731 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:31:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA01149; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:32:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA13789 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:34:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA13771 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:34:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port084.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.84]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id SAA12905 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:34:06 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36B1E59E.2D150AEF@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:45:21 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Favourite Costume/Fair X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef Hello! Thank you for the many answers to my questions, fortunately you also seem to enjoy getting to know each other better. The fair I had heard about was probably Blackbird Leys as it was written that it takes place twice a year. I would be glad to get the date of the autumn fair if someone`s already got that. But I`ve also already heard about Kirby Hall and I would love to visit there as well. As you told me everything about your favourite costumes, I think I should do the same. Of course, I like medieval dress as I´m also active in reenactment there. My favourite period there is the 12th century with those long, wide sleeves. But I`m also attracted to the dress of later times, like 16th century Tudor dress, mid-17th century baroque dress, 18th century`s sack gowns and clothing from about 1850-1890. Oh, I forgot the Regency dresses and Edwardian gowns, for these things one fortunately doesn`t need a special event to wear them. It`s possible to walk along the street without being strangely looked at. I`m still looking for reenactment groups of the later periods than medieval over here, so that I could also wear those beautiful costumes more often. A friend of mine here in Germany wants to start a reenactment group dealing with the mid 18th century and I want to help her building it up. Greetings, Diana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 07:51:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA15847 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:51:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA02226; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 06:01:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA16603 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 05:55:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA16597 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 05:55:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from 168.191.20.116 (sdn-ar-001dcwashP204.dialsprint.net [168.191.20.116]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA02989 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 04:55:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B476AE.F2878F78@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:29:03 +0000 From: margo king X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: The Body Brace X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199901302153.IAA15637@kryptonite.sge.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: margo king Ray - please snail mail to Margo King 8900 Potomac Station Lane Potomac , MD 20854 U.S.A. Let me know what I owe you for postage, etc. Many thanks! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME