From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Jan 31 18:32:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA16062 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:31:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA08557; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:36:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA03991 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:39:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE (mail.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE [130.149.4.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA03984 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:39:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from coal.bg.tu-berlin.de by mail.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE with SMTP (IC-PP); Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:39:15 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990201003943.009d1100@130.149.12.212> X-Sender: barbara@130.149.12.212 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 00:39:43 +0100 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Barbara Maren Winkler Subject: Re: H-COST: Menswear - yet another theory In-Reply-To: <199901300101.SAA27541@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Barbara Maren Winkler >- -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com > >>The social theory of civilization founded by Norbert Elias (1939: The >>Process of Civilization) argues that civilization is a process in >>which personal physical urges are getting more and more controlled... >>By this theory, societies which exist a long time >>undisruptedly have an innate tendency toward "civilization" ... >I know that when the theory >was developed, Western Europe was considered the ultimate in >civilization, but I hope that we are a bit more enlightened than that and >can see the depth and complexity of non-European cultures as being equal >or exceeding our own. A quick look thru history will confirm that >long-term civilization (Ancient Egyptian anyone?) and subdued clothing >are not neccessarily the same thing. I did not mean to say that any long-term civilization must develop subdued clothing. There is one example that did. Barbara Maren -- Barbara Maren Winkler barbara@math.tu-berlin.de _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 00:23:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA18936 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:23:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA17093; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:28:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA26254 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:31:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA26249 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:30:57 -0700 (MST) From: DenPoitou@aol.com Received: from DenPoitou@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id AAPAa01223 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:30:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:30:20 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Garb thoughts for large men Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: DenPoitou@aol.com Sorry for the late posting. Someone may have already suggested this. Have you thought about a long Houppelande? I have seen some very LARGE stature men in these garments. All have been stately and handsome in appearance. The belt can be worn beneath the belly (as it would seem normal for gentlemen of this size) and more often than not the brocades can be found in discount bins or if your lucky old draperies. The skill level is more moderate and details can be easily worked around. Cartridge pleating has been suggested on these but truthfully all the ones I have seen made were not formally gathered. Again, my apologies if this has already been mentioned. Dennet denpoitou@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 01:07:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA19324 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 01:07:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA23949; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:12:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA29119 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:15:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA29104 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:15:01 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 9TNRa04796 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 01:14:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1c21ec73.36b54628@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 01:14:00 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Rullions Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I have never heard of the term "rullion" and McClintock does not mention it. The hide shoes in Scotland are referred to as "cuarans" or "pampooties." Where do you get your reference to rullions? I do Scots and Irish impressions in several living history groups and I would like the information. Thanks. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 01:16:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA19415 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 01:16:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA24960; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:21:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA29537 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:23:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA29528 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:23:35 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id UBZFa06037 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 01:22:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5b68a4d2.36b5483a@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 01:22:50 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: CC17 touristy stuff Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com The Whole Costumer's Catalogue, edited by Karen L. Dick is available from: CBTB Press, P.O. Box 207, 2860 Main Street, Beallsville, PA 15313-0207. It is $15.00. (No website or fax number given on my copy, which is several years old) It is cross-referenced by subject and geographical area. (From the catalaogue:)The catalogue lists 1,100+ companies that carry costumes, accessories, instruction books, make-up, pattern books, raw materials and tools to make costumes. Plus other stuff. Very handy. Usual disclaimer. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 01:31:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA19501 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 01:31:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA26337; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:35:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA00574 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:37:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA00568 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:37:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip211.an3-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.14.211]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA27670 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 22:37:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B53E6B.1D769BCB@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 01:41:01 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: dressed to the nines Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Anybody have any ideas about where the expression "dressed to the nines" comes from? Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 01:40:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA19548 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 01:40:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA27083; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:46:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA01194 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:48:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA01187 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:48:30 -0700 (MST) From: Finafyr@aol.com Received: from Finafyr@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 2FBYa19764 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 01:47:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <186dc695.36b54e19@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 01:47:53 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Glass Aglets Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Finafyr@aol.com In the Book "Queen Elizabeth Wardrobe unlocked" Janet Arnold... there are Glass Aiglets..I was wondering where one could find them as they look very nice Renee _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 02:00:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA19655 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:00:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA28792; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:05:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA02252 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:07:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA02243 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:07:33 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id NYHLa03472 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:06:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <80023140.36b55290@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:06:56 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: pricing question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com Good luck with your client. Usually I get the price I ask without anyone whimpering about it. The one bit of trouble I had occurred when I did three 1805 outfits for an historical site in the area -- 2 men's and one (very large) woman's. I had a friend draft a pattern for the lady since I could not get a commercial pattern in her size. I scrimped on the price as much as I could, even adapting 2 pairs of old wool Navy "crackerjack" pants for the gentlemen (you could get them from a surplus store relatively cheaply). Since it was an historical site (which never has much in the budget for such things), I only charged $350 + the cost of material for ALL THREE outfits. The woman I was dealing with STILL had a cow over the cost and I practically had to beat the check out of her. The clothes looked terrific and hundreds of people saw the outfits during the Christmas program they were made for. Some days it just doesn't pay to chew through the restraints... Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 02:27:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA19836 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:27:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA00741; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:31:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA03619 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:34:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA03609 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:34:14 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 6UDVa04329 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:33:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:33:17 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: CostumeCon Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com There are lots of panels and discussions on all aspects of costuming. All types of costuming are represented -- sci fi, historical, fantsay, etc. There are lots of vendors selling great stuff (I absolutely raided AlterYears at the last one I attended). Many recognized experts in the costuming field are present. And of course, there are competitions like historical and sci fi/fantasy. There is a doll costuming competition and a "future fashion" presentation. CostumeCon is a great place to network too. It alternates between East and West coasts every other year. This will be my third CostumeCon and my second as a judge. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 02:49:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA19989 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:49:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA02166; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:54:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA05068 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:56:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from aus.compassnet.com.au ([203.26.180.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id AAA05049 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:56:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from wayne-s-pc by aus.compassnet.com.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA24074; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:51:47 +1100 Message-ID: <051a01be4db8$81104180$02b51acb@wayne-s-pc> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: denim/demon Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:56:19 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Glenda Robinson" Carol wrote: >I jsut heard today about a really ridiculous happening. It seems that >someone who was in charge of some teenagers informed them that because >there was only one letter difference between denim and demon-that's >right, she didn't know how to spell either-that there had to be a >connection between the two words Maybe someone should point our to this ill-informed person that Satan and Santa actually consist of THE SAME LETTERS!!! Glenda. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 04:01:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA26021 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 04:01:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA05967; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:05:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA08219 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:08:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.bctel.ca (mail1.bctel.ca [207.194.28.67]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA08214 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:08:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from x4q7f5 (kmlp01m01-23.bctel.ca [207.102.34.23]) by mail1.bctel.ca with SMTP id BAA07463 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 01:08:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <006901be4dc1$4c8a1fe0$8d2266cf@x4q7f5> From: "Jennifer Greene" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: Glass Aglets Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:35:26 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Jennifer Greene" Pardon me for my igorance, but what *are* glass aglets, and what are they used for? (the note that they are Elizabethan caught my eye!) Jen ==================== No chocolate, no peace! ==================== Gawain wrote: >>Greetings, Everyone, from Gawain Kilgore, >> >>If eveyrone would be so kind as to indulge me, I would like to pose the >>following question: >> >>Can anyone point me to documentation of glass aglets in use in period. I >>have a friend who is desperately searching for this information and can't >>find it. She swears up and down that she found a passing mention of them in >>a book / article by Janet Arnold a few years ago, but has been unable to >>find the reference again. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 07:02:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA26965 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:02:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA12593; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 05:08:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA14839 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 05:10:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from scorpion.netspace.net.au (scorpion.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.106]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA14825 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 05:10:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by scorpion.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id XAA25942 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:10:12 +1100 (EST) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t2-187.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.192.187]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id XAA04657 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:11:10 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199902011211.XAA04657@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: CostumeCon Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:12:11 +1100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" > CostumeCon is a great place to network too. It alternates between East and > West coasts every other year. This will be my third CostumeCon and my second > as a judge. Aww, what about Australia? -C. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 08:28:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA27725 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:28:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA17199; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:33:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA19656 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:35:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from dskfw2.funb.com (dskfw2.funb.com [168.175.254.62]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA19648 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:35:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by dskfw2.funb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA01316 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:35:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from clt-conn-04.funb.com(168.175.76.78) by dskfw2.funb.com via smap (V2.0) id xma001294; Mon, 1 Feb 99 08:35:01 -0500 Received: by clt-conn-04.capmark.funb.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1AGRFRWX>; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:34:48 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Stapelton, Gregory" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Glass Aglets Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:34:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Stapelton, Gregory" Ok, here's how I define them. Any correction appreciated: They are the little doo-hickies that go on the end of ties that are lacing up a bodice or holding on a sleeve, etc. They make it easier to do the lacing and dress up the end of the tie. I think the plastic ends on shoe laces are still referred to as aglets. In period, they were most commonly made from thin sheets of metal, rolled into a cone shape, as I understand it. Gawain Kilgore > -----Original Message----- > From: Jennifer Greene [SMTP:Jennifer_Greene@bc.sympatico.ca] > Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 3:35 AM > To: h-costume-digest@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Re: Glass Aglets > > > -Poster: "Jennifer Greene" > > Pardon me for my igorance, but what *are* glass aglets, and what are they > used for? (the note that they are Elizabethan caught my eye!) > > Jen > ==================== > No chocolate, no peace! > ==================== > > Gawain wrote: > > >>Greetings, Everyone, from Gawain Kilgore, > >> > >>If eveyrone would be so kind as to indulge me, I would like to pose the > >>following question: > >> > >>Can anyone point me to documentation of glass aglets in use in period. > I > >>have a friend who is desperately searching for this information and > can't > >>find it. She swears up and down that she found a passing mention of > them > in > >>a book / article by Janet Arnold a few years ago, but has been unable to > >>find the reference again. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 08:37:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA27773 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:37:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA17892; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:43:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA20297 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:45:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from dskfw1.funb.com (dskfw1.funb.com [168.175.254.61]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA20291 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:45:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by dskfw1.funb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA13356 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:44:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from clt-conn-02.funb.com(168.175.76.48) by dskfw1.funb.com via smap (V2.0) id xma013351; Mon, 1 Feb 99 08:44:39 -0500 Received: by clt-conn-02.capmark.funb.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1AGPS3PD>; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:44:31 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Stapelton, Gregory" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Glass Aglets Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:44:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Stapelton, Gregory" Cool! I guessed as much. I bought that for my wife a few years ago for Christmas. I'll go through it tonight and see if I can find it. Thanks, much! Gawain Kilgore / Gregory Stapleton > -----Original Message----- > From: Finafyr@aol.com [SMTP:Finafyr@aol.com] > Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 1:48 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Glass Aglets > > > -Poster: Finafyr@aol.com > > In the Book "Queen Elizabeth Wardrobe unlocked" Janet Arnold... there are > Glass Aiglets..I was wondering where one could find them as they look very > nice > > Renee > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 09:01:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27928 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:01:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA20141; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:07:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA22723 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:09:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA22703 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:09:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA10631 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:12:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16619 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:10:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:10:38 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Glass Aglets In-Reply-To: <199902010343.TAA20037@zeus.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed > The glass aglets are in Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd, page 327 (fig > 426). They look remarkably similar to some Christmas tree icicles I've > seeen.. Hmmm.... I have a pic of those glass aglets from QEWU at http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/pics/aglet.gif Hmm...I wonder how hard those things would be for a glassblower to make...or a beadmaker... Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 09:05:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27953 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:05:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA20560; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:11:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA23127 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:13:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from dskfw1.funb.com (dskfw1.funb.com [168.175.254.61]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA23115 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:12:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by dskfw1.funb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA15069 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:12:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from clt-conn-02.funb.com(168.175.76.48) by dskfw1.funb.com via smap (V2.0) id xma015045; Mon, 1 Feb 99 09:12:07 -0500 Received: by clt-conn-02.capmark.funb.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1AGPS3WF>; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:12:02 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Stapelton, Gregory" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Glass Aglets Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:11:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Stapelton, Gregory" Believe it or not, it's pretty easy. :) And once again, thank all of you for the references!!!! My friend will be ecstatic. Gawain > -----Original Message----- > From: aleed [SMTP:aleed@dnaco.net] > Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 9:11 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Glass Aglets > > > -Poster: aleed > > > > The glass aglets are in Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd, page 327 > (fig > > 426). They look remarkably similar to some Christmas tree icicles I've > > seeen.. Hmmm.... > > I have a pic of those glass aglets from QEWU at > http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/pics/aglet.gif > > Hmm...I wonder how hard those things would be for a glassblower to > make...or a beadmaker... > > Drea > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 09:11:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28000 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:11:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA21138; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:17:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA23967 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:19:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from dskfw1.funb.com (dskfw1.funb.com [168.175.254.61]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA23960 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:18:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by dskfw1.funb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA15465 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:18:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from clt-conn-02.funb.com(168.175.76.48) by dskfw1.funb.com via smap (V2.0) id xmaa15448; Mon, 1 Feb 99 09:18:01 -0500 Received: by clt-conn-02.capmark.funb.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1AGPS3ZS>; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:17:56 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Stapelton, Gregory" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Costuming Large Men Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:17:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Stapelton, Gregory" Being one of these large men and sitting or rather standing through fittings by my wonderful, lovely Lady Wife and then wearing the garb, perhaps I can shed a small twinkle of light. My wife takes patterns of the largest size she can then fits them on me as they seem to best fit then she adds additional paper to these patterns to fill it out to the correct size. It works great for her because she's a pattern person. She always manages to get a good fit. That's how she learned. It drives me nuts. I'm a sloper person and I think you get the best fit by making a sloper of the garment, getting a good fit and then cutting the real fabric. I get excellent results, usually as good as my wife's. How I do it is I make the sloper larger than I know I'll need and then I put it on and have my wife pin, cut, ease and take it up on me. I find that the single best easy garb for men of my size, which looks very, very good, is the cotehardie. It's only draw back is a lot of buttons down the front and the under sleeves. It looks very sharp. The only thing I recommend watching out for, since it's a closely fitted garment is to make sure to ease the underarms and make sure they are comfortable, not binding or too tight. YIS, Gawain Kilgore -----Original Message----- From: Abbott, Ruth [SMTP:r-abbott@oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu] Sent: Thursday, January 28, 1999 4:35 PM To: 'h-costume@indra.com' Subject: H-COST: Garb for large men, additional -Poster: "Abbott, Ruth" I see that I should have made a few things clearer: I can understand the suggestions to dress my husband like Henry VIII or in the less flamboyant Tudor style, but in all honesty I am not going to go to that much work on his behalf unless he asks me to. Or, I am at least going to make some elaborate garb for myself first. I will mentally file the idea away, though, even though simpler garb was what I had in mind. What I was mostly hoping for was those little tricks to deal with fitting and such. Margo mentioned a few things about "disguising" girth, but are there any techniques that would assure a good fit? For example, I have considered whether adding gores to a T-tunic would make sense, to allow for more room. It seems to me that the gores would have to start quite high to be of help, since it's not a matter of wanting to flair out at the hips as with a woman. Then they would just look silly (I imagine) and likely draw the eye right to his middle. Also, is there any way to include extra ease across the back, without distorting the shapes of garments? These are the kinds of questions I am pondering. Alix _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 09:29:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28102 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:29:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA22821; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:35:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA26121 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:37:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from host1.texramp.net (root@host1.texramp.net [209.144.20.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA26111; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 07:37:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from LocalHost (hydroseal.com [209.144.20.50]) by host1.texramp.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA27119; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:37:01 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199902011437.IAA27119@host1.texramp.net> From: "Sterling Ranne" To: , Subject: H-COST: OT: Sewing & Pattern mailing lists... Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:37:49 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Sterling Ranne" Hi, Sorry for the off topic, but I was wondering if anyone here had information on other sewing related mailing lists. I'm looking for a few hard to find patterns (Kilt Jackets and such, which I had at first thought might be found here.) and was wanting to post to lists and groups that might have information on them. If anyone here might have some information on Kilt Jackets that could lead me in the right direction, or the types of lists or newsgroups to look in, I would appreciate it. To keep the OT traffic to a minimum please respond to: sranne@hydroseal.com Thanx Sterling 92.5% Pure _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 10:09:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28432 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:09:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA27272; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA01054 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:16:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA01045 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:16:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from clough (207-172-49-79.s79.tnt14.ann.erols.com [207.172.49.79]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA08602 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:16:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:16:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902011516.KAA08602@smtp2.erols.com> X-Sender: clough@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda and Larry Clough Subject: Re: H-COST: how to - cummerbund for "smallish" boy Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough At 08:18 PM 1/31/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Sidne Kneeland > > >Greetings list, > >I need to make a cummerbund for a very active 4-1/2 yo boy, black >fabric. Yes, I have the poor child in a dance class, tap. They are >having a program later this spring. Yes, he is VERY active, stress on >the VERY part. > I suggest stretch fabric, maybe a black polyester doubleknit or (if it's supposed to have a sheen) a shiny black jersey. You wouldn't need but a quarter-yard maybe, for a kid that size. Use a strip of black elastic at the back to keep it snug, and fasten it with velcro. A kid that age, you're not talking archival in any way... Brenda Brenda W. Clough, author of HOW LIKE A GOD from Tor Books. http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 10:13:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28467 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:13:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA27898; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:18:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA01551 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:20:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA01539 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:20:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from clough (207-172-49-79.s79.tnt14.ann.erols.com [207.172.49.79]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA11832 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:20:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:20:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902011520.KAA11832@smtp2.erols.com> X-Sender: clough@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda and Larry Clough Subject: Re: H-COST: denim Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough At 11:55 PM 1/31/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Heather Law > >I jsut heard today about a really ridiculous happening. It seems that >someone who was in charge of some teenagers informed them that because >there was only one letter difference between denim and demon-that's >right, she didn't know how to spell either-that there had to be a >connection between the two words. I told the person who'd overheard the >story that denim derived from "de Nimes", but of course he isn't about >to inform her-especially because she'd probably then accuse him of >demonology. !!!! That takes the cake, Carol, really it does. And I thought that the guy in DC who accused a bureaucrat of being a racist, because he said that a certain budget was going to be niggardly this year, was the limit. Brenda Brenda W. Clough, author of HOW LIKE A GOD from Tor Books. http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 10:30:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28629 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:30:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA00158; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:35:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA04163 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:36:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA04152 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:36:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a18.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.146]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA23416 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:36:42 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36B5CA06.86951662@nash.tds.net> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 09:36:38 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: Costuming "Richard III" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat I have a couple of problems/questions I'd like to see if anyone could help with... First, I need to make an appliance for Richard...I'm thinking foam covered with fabric & strapped on...does anyone have a better/easier idea? Would it help the 'withered arm' bit look better if I build a shirt/tunic with one sleeve longer than the other? Second, my dad is complaining because our costume stock doesn't contain anything 'rich' enough for the women. I know I can dress them up to some extent with the use of jewelry and belts but headpieces are another option...what kind should I be making and does anyone have any tips/tricks for these? Now I just have to go try to make my bedroom tv work so that I can watch all three versions of the play I have again to make sure I've got the right picture in my head. We've managed to get some stuff from stock & I'm not finished going through it yet but I know I'll be building a few pieces (already did one for Queen Margaret...black velvet with loooong dangling parts to the ends of the sleeves). TIA for any advice!! Kat kdyer@nash.tds.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 10:44:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28742 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:44:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA02120; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:49:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA06655 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:51:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from m16.boston.juno.com (m16.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.192]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA06619 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:51:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m16.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2DRPNSY; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 10:50:49 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Glass Aglets Message-ID: <19990201.073509.4783.2.cley@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-8,10-75 From: cynthia j ley Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 10:50:49 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: cynthia j ley Elizabethan literature refers to them as "tags." One madrigal brings them up as a prized token that a gentleman might win from a lady. (You learn the darnedest things studying music.) ;-) Arlys On Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:34:48 -0500 "Stapelton, Gregory" writes: > >-Poster: "Stapelton, Gregory" > >Ok, here's how I define them. Any correction appreciated: They are >the >little doo-hickies that go on the end of ties that are lacing up a >bodice or >holding on a sleeve, etc. They make it easier to do the lacing and >dress >up the end of the tie. I think the plastic ends on shoe laces are >still >referred to as aglets. In period, they were most commonly made from >thin >sheets of metal, rolled into a cone shape, as I understand it. > >Gawain Kilgore > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jennifer Greene [SMTP:Jennifer_Greene@bc.sympatico.ca] >> Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 3:35 AM >> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com >> Subject: H-COST: Re: Glass Aglets >> >> >> -Poster: "Jennifer Greene" >> >> Pardon me for my igorance, but what *are* glass aglets, and what are >they >> used for? (the note that they are Elizabethan caught my eye!) >> >> Jen >> ==================== >> No chocolate, no peace! >> ==================== >> >> Gawain wrote: >> >> >>Greetings, Everyone, from Gawain Kilgore, >> >> >> >>If eveyrone would be so kind as to indulge me, I would like to >pose the >> >>following question: >> >> >> >>Can anyone point me to documentation of glass aglets in use in >period. >> I >> >>have a friend who is desperately searching for this information >and >> can't >> >>find it. She swears up and down that she found a passing mention >of >> them >> in >> >>a book / article by Janet Arnold a few years ago, but has been >unable to >> >>find the reference again. >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 10:50:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28786 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:50:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA02977; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:56:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA07772 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:57:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from dias.net (dias.net [199.170.176.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA07757 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:57:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ophelia@localhost) by dias.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA13199 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:04:46 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ophelia@dias.net) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:04:46 -0600 (CST) From: "Sara J. Davitt" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Unusual question (involving underwire bra attracting lightning! - read on) In-Reply-To: <21376fce.36b3e07c@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Sara J. Davitt" I had heard of this story before... I had found it in a book called "You Can't Be Too Careful-Cautionary Tales for the impetuous, the curious, and the blithley oblivious" By David Pryce-Jones Workman Publishing, ISBN 1-56305-156-7 "The metal in a woman's bra probably attracted the lightening that caused her death as she walked through a park in a severe storm. Mrs. Iris S. was found lying dead under a tree in Queen's Park, Willesden. Dr. Ian W., a pathologist, said a burnmark on the chest appeared to match the exactly reinforced area of Mrs. S.'s bra. (pg 59) And the rest of the book is funny as well, with lots of obituaries of deaths caused by bizzaree phenomena, fashion blunders, animal antics... Here's to Nature's Morbid Sense of Humor, Sarahj **2Y's**UR**2Y's**UB**IC**UR**2Y's**4Me** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 10:54:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28805 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:54:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA03709; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:59:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA08437 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:00:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA08393 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:00:49 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LKUKa05506 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:00:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <20762048.36b5cf88@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:00:08 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: CostumeCon Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com Is there going to be a CostumeCon Down Under? That would be great! Expensive, but great. Kathleen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 11:01:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28851 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:01:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA05337; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:06:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA09877 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:08:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from dskfw1.funb.com (dskfw1.funb.com [168.175.254.61]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA09854 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:08:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by dskfw1.funb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA22618 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:07:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from clt-conn-02.funb.com(168.175.76.48) by dskfw1.funb.com via smap (V2.0) id xma022599; Mon, 1 Feb 99 11:07:22 -0500 Received: by clt-conn-02.capmark.funb.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1AGPSP6C>; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:07:17 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Stapelton, Gregory" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Glass Aglets Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:07:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Stapelton, Gregory" Like I always say, a holistic approach to research is the best approach! Thanks. Gawain > -----Original Message----- > From: cynthia j ley [SMTP:cley@juno.com] > Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 10:51 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Cc: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Re: Glass Aglets > > > -Poster: cynthia j ley > > Elizabethan literature refers to them as "tags." One madrigal brings them > up as a prized token that a gentleman might win from a lady. > > (You learn the darnedest things studying music.) ;-) > > > > Arlys > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 11:26:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28978 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:26:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA07711; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:15:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA11738 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:17:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA11706; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:17:03 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 8ZFDa03463; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:15:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <213b2ad0.36b5d310@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:15:12 EST To: h-costume@indra.com, vintage@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Princess Diana's scraps Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Dear All, Thought you might enjoy this scrap of information from _The Washington Post_, January 25, 1999: "Pieces of material discarded during the making of Princess Diana's weddingdress will be auctioned later this year in the United States. The six snippets are from the Elizabeth Emmanuel ivory silk gown the late princess wore at her 1981 wedding to Prince Charles. The cuttings were recently appraised in the low six figures." Save those scraps if you plan to be famous Sally Queen http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com Costume Calendar Series _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 11:28:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28992 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:28:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA10978; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:33:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA15041 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:35:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA15004 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:35:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) id <01J78I4FR8PC00APC5@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:37:24 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) with ESMTP id <01J78I1DUZEG00ANA6@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 16:27:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.43); Mon, 01 Feb 1999 16:24:56 +0000 (GMT0BST) Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.43); Mon, 01 Feb 1999 16:24:36 +0000 (GMT0BST) Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 16:24:33 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: H-COST: CostumeCon In-reply-to: <199902010349.UAA15469@indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <506E0FF2524@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Teddy Hi, You've had the answers to the "What is CostumeCon?" question, now I have to ask, what/where do you mean by "over here".....? > - -Poster: Andrea Clef > > Hello out there! > > What does take place exactly at a costume con? Over here such an > event doesn`t exist, I know only science fiction cons which include > a costume competition. > > Is there anything except the competition during a costume con? > > Diana Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 11:31:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA29013 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:31:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA11383; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:36:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA15581 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:38:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA15567 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:38:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.138 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:37:50 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Rullions Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:40:42 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be4e01$dc9f16e0$8a17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <1c21ec73.36b54628@aol.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I am puzzled about your request for references, as I included several, including quotations. Yarwood, in the cited reference, indicates many, many words for the rawhide shoes from country to country, and even within Scotland. Sorry, that reference of mine is two miles away in the local library, so I can't share the 10-15 words she used. Rullion is listed in her index, however. It is she who says that pampootles is the Irish word for them, and that's how they are indexed in Dunlevy's Dress in Ireland. Rullions are in Dunbar's index only once, but the references to them in the period accounts he quotes are pretty numerous. The accounts themselves indicate a variety of terminology, often saying "rullions or -----" with the alternative word. For instance, in Orkney, they were made of sealskin and called rifflings. Here's my post again with all of the references cited in complete detail: Rullions are to the Scots what pampooties are to the Irish. It is footwear made of untanned leather, fur (usually) remaining on the outside, a single thickness of skin, gathered up around the edge with a sinew which allows it to conform to the foot. The lines vary somewhat from place to place, but it's basically a bag tied over the foot, sometimes cut low, just to cover the toes, sometimes with an integral vamp sewn across, and sometimes gathered up to the ankle. The footgear is very ancient, said to be worn all over Northern Europe prior to the influx of the Romans, and still seen in the 20th Century in remote islands off the northern coast of Ireland. Examples survive from Iceland. References found in Doreen Yarwood's Dictionary of Fashion with several drawings, Mairead Dunlevy's Dress in Ireland with illustrations of various kinds, and many quotations from writers over a very long time frame in John Tefler Dunbar's History of Highland Dress, 1962, Oliver and Boyd, Edinburgh and London, i.e.. John Elder's proposal of 1542 to Henry VIII to join Scotland and England, now in the British Museum: "And agayne in wyntre when the froest is most vehement (as I have saide) which we cannot suffir bair footide, so weill as snow, .... we go ahuntynge, and after that we have slayne redd deir, we flaye of the skyne, bey and bey, and setting our bair foote on the inside therof, for neide of cunnynge shoemakers, by your Grace's pardon, we play the sutters; compasinge and mesuringe so moche therof, as shall retche up to our anklers, pryckynge the upper part therof also with holis, that the water may repas where it entris, and stretchide up with a strong twange of the same, meitand above our said anklers, so, and please your noble Grace, we make our shoois: Therefor we usinge suche maner of shoois, the roghe hairie syde outwart, in your Grace's dominion of England we be callit roghefootide Scottis...." He goes on to assure the King that the Scottish nobles all have fine clothes of velvet and silk, which they would of course wear to Court to honor him in the appropriate manner, leaving their furry booties at home. See also Richard James (1592-1638) account right before 1618 of his travels to Scotland in the Bodlian Library, "rawhide shoes with the hair side outwards." That's where my previous post ended. I could add to that Dunbar's citation from The History of Scots Affairs (1637-1641) by James Gordon, in which he says, "To fence their feet they put on Rullions (sic) or raw leather shoes." Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Appin1@aol.com Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 1:14 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Rullions -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I have never heard of the term "rullion" and McClintock does not mention it. The hide shoes in Scotland are referred to as "cuarans" or "pampooties." Where do you get your reference to rullions? I do Scots and Irish impressions in several living history groups and I would like the information. Thanks. Kathleen Norvell ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 11:36:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA29042 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:36:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA12278; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:41:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA16565 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:43:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailgate.caci.co.uk (mailgate.caci.co.uk [195.173.80.20]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA16539 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:43:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from caci_ntas1.caci.co.uk (caci_ntas1.caci.co.uk [194.70.42.18]) by mailgate.caci.co.uk (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA08842 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:40:42 GMT Received: by caci_ntas1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:40:39 -0000 Message-ID: From: Christina Nevin To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: A Shock Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:40:38 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christina Nevin * Poster: "Sara J. Davitt" > "The metal in a woman's bra probably attracted the lightening that caused her death as she walked through a park in a severe storm. Mrs. Iris S. was found lying dead under a tree in Queen's Park, Willesden. Dr. Ian W., a pathologist, said a burnmark on the chest appeared to match the exactly reinforced area of Mrs. S.'s bra. (pg 59) EEP! Willesden's where I live! Still, on the premise that lightening never strikes twice in the same place, I don't think I'll be whipping the underwires out of my bras.... Tina ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Lady Lucrezia-Isabella di Freccia | mka Tina Nevin Thamesreach Shire, The Isles, Drachenwald | London, UK thorngrove@geocities.com | http://www.geocities.com/~thorngrove "There is no doubt that great leaders prefer hard drinkers to good versifiers" - Aretino, 1536 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 12:11:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29246 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:11:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA17920; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:17:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA23284 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:18:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA23273 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:18:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from 38.11.190.180 (ip180.phoenix.az.pub-ip.psi.net [38.11.190.180]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA16294 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:18:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B57FB0.9F4@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 10:19:29 +0000 From: "S.B. McDaniel" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0-C-AICK1-2 (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Evening Corsage References: <199902010349.UAA15469@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "S.B. McDaniel" > -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) > Okay, I'm asking this becuase I'm curious, *NOT* because I'm selling > it or interested in buying it. Someone elase told me about it. > Does anyone have ANY idea if this is a correct identification for this item? > I really *am* genuinely curious. I'd love to know, too. I have seen the bodices of low-neckline Victorian gowns referred to as a "corsage". My grandmother says that the reason we call flowers pinned to a dress a corsage is because that's where you put it. Our Austrian au-pair called brazierres "corsages". Anybody know where this comes from? Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 13:28:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29707 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:28:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA29929; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:34:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA07312 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:35:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA07291 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:35:43 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id MHPGa03538 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:34:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7ad478f.36b5f3a7@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:34:15 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Glass Aglets-sources? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com They sound gorgeous! Are they available anywhere? angil + + + + + + + Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing "Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds" A. Einstein In a message dated 1/31/1999 22:48:41 Pacific Standard Time, Finafyr@aol.com writes: << In the Book "Queen Elizabeth Wardrobe unlocked" Janet Arnold... there are Glass Aiglets..I was wondering where one could find them as they look very nice Renee ______ >> _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 13:37:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29782 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:37:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA01408; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:43:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA09002 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:45:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from dillinger.io.com (ches@dillinger.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA08992 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by dillinger.io.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA04009 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:44:57 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: dillinger.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:44:57 -0600 (CST) From: ches To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: Re: H-COST: Glass Aglets-sources? In-Reply-To: <7ad478f.36b5f3a7@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ches There is a lady here in the Steppes, Dallas Texas, that works with glass. I will see her tomorrow and take my book with me to show her the aglets. If she can make them for a resonable price I will post that information to anyone who emails me for it. Ches On Mon, 1 Feb 1999 MzScahlett@aol.com wrote: > Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:34:15 EST > From: MzScahlett@aol.com > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Glass Aglets-sources? > > > -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com > > They sound gorgeous! Are they available anywhere? > > angil > + + + + + + + > Angela F. Lazear > Costumes & Custom Clothing > > "Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds" > A. Einstein > > In a message dated 1/31/1999 22:48:41 Pacific Standard Time, Finafyr@aol.com > writes: > > << > In the Book "Queen Elizabeth Wardrobe unlocked" Janet Arnold... there are > Glass Aiglets..I was wondering where one could find them as they look very > nice > > Renee > ______ >> > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 13:57:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29946 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:57:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA05275; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:01:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA12327 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:03:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA12312 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:03:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 1136 invoked from network); 1 Feb 1999 19:06:32 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-62.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.62) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 1999 19:06:32 -0000 Message-ID: <36B61F70.65A6@mc.net> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 13:41:04 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Rayon References: <199902010756.AAA05077@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Can anyone tell me what "tencel" rayon is? It seems to be some kind of New-and-Improved rayon, but I haven't seen it and probly wouldn't know what to expect of it if I did. Thanks, Heather L _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 14:04:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29992 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:04:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04956; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:00:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA12040 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:02:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from yucc.yorku.ca (ioana@yucc.yorku.ca [130.63.82.32]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA11991 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:01:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ioana@localhost) by yucc.yorku.ca (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA01436 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:01:53 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:01:53 -0500 (EST) From: Ioana Timariu To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Beaded Fringe In-Reply-To: <7ad478f.36b5f3a7@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ioana Timariu Hello! I'm trying to create a belly-dancing costume. I'm looking for a provider of beaded fringe. I'd love to manually make the fringe, but I have a deadline for the costume .. I have to dance in it in April!)... Most providers I found on the internet ask for 40 (3 inch width) to 60$ (4 inch width) per yard. Is this a reasonable price? I live in Toronto, Ontario, but any reasonably-priced provider from anywhere in the world would do. Thank you very much! -ioana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 14:04:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29996 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:04:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA06125; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:06:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA13142 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:08:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA13119 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:08:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.190 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:07:51 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Glass Aglets Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:11:01 -0500 Message-ID: <000501be4e16$d4f49b80$8a17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199902010315.UAA11326@indra.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Anyone who owns a toy chemistry set with a Bunsen burner could whip those up, using glass rod or tube. Remember high school chemistry? The only thing I was ever any good at were the labs, and learning to shape glass tubing was the first lesson we had. I remember as a preteen putting glass baby food jars in an old Franklin stove and watching it melt readily in the white hot coals of a wood fire, so the very determined can probably make glass aiglets even without the Bunsen burner. Has anybody checked a bead catalog, though? It beats firing up the hibachi on the apartment balcony in this weather. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Stapelton, Gregory Sent: Sunday, January 31, 1999 10:15 PM To: 'h-costume@indra.com' Subject: H-COST: Glass Aglets -Poster: "Stapelton, Gregory" Greetings, Everyone, from Gawain Kilgore, If eveyrone would be so kind as to indulge me, I would like to pose the following question: Can anyone point me to documentation of glass aglets in use in period. I have a friend who is desperately searching for this information and can't find it. She swears up and down that she found a passing mention of them in a book / article by Janet Arnold a few years ago, but has been unable to find the reference again. Any help will be greatly appreciated. My "Thanks" in advance. Yours In Service, Gawain Kilgore ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 14:06:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30014 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:06:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA06114; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:06:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA13135 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:08:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA13105 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:08:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.190 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:07:47 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: z'out/synthrapol and Help! Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:26:46 -0500 Message-ID: <000401be4e16$d1aee660$8a17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <19990201070920.3251.qmail@hotmail.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Well, with regard to the linen, I have yet to find a stain, other than rust, which Clorox won't take out. Follow the directions on the bottle and use in the washer in conjunction with a detergent. If the color is an all-over yellow or brown, it's not from the box, but the original sizing, and it whitens up licketly-split with the method above. For tougher stains, you may have to run it through twice. I always rinse with plain water until I can't smell the Clorox anymore, just to keep the Clorox from continuing to work and deteriorate the fabric. This usually takes 1-2 times throught the rinse and spin cycle. Z'out is used to clean football players uniforms, among other things. It is a good product, especially on grass stains. If your chain supermarket doesn't have it, try one of those best-quality, well-stocked, old-fashioned hardware stores, family run. They usually have a terrific array of tried and true old-fashioned cleaning and polishing products that really work. By the way, rust will come out with a product called The Rust Gun, 99 cents for 8 ounces, made by Fast Industries, Inc. in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida at (303) 979-3278. I got mine in one of those aforementioned hardware stores. It takes hours, sometimes two days, to melt the stain away, but it does work completely. The bottle doesn't say what the active ingredient is, but it claims it doesn't cause fabric detrioration. I have used it on several garments, as my washer seems to leave these rust stains on white cotton things occasionally, and I haven't noticed any long-term harm from the product. I have had no experience with synthrapol, but it sounds great. Where do you get it? Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Jeannie Harwell Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 2:09 AM To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: z'out/synthrapol and Help! -Poster: "Jeannie Harwell" Hi! I'm delurking and have two questions I could really use help with: 1) on a previous posting: >This just happened to me -- I washed some printed rayon fabric >I had no reason to suspect would run. Some small black and dark >green areas "smeared" on to the background color. A judicious >application of Z'out and synthrepol got it out and saved yards >of irreplaceable fabric. My first question is, what is Z'out and how is it different from Synthrapol and where would one acquire it? Would this help on below? Or perhaps someone might have another suggestion? --the problem is I *had* to wash a quilt my grandmother gave me (first one she ever made and each block her family and neighbors embroidered their names and the date (1942), so is very very sentimental)---anyhow, the backing was pink and it bled when washed (cold water, too) and now all the white blocks on the front are pink too :( I've been hoping there might be someway to reverse or lift out the bled dye, but am reluctant to experiment (and maybe make it worse) unless I feel I have a shot at fixing it. It hasn't been washed again since it bled. 2) Ok, question two: A family friend gave me what she said is some fine Irish linen that is 90 inches wide and quite long, that she ordered from Neiman's in the 60's and was going to use for a formal table cloth and never did (and it's unfinished cloth, raw edges). It's very delicate, about the weight of batiste or light cotton. The problem is that she stored it in the orignal box she received it in and now the edges that were folded and touching the box are yellowed from what I presume is the acid in the box. Is there some way to restore it and get the yellowing out? Any suggestions? And as long as we're on the subject suggestions on what to do with the cloth? Thought about finishing the table cloth and possibly bobbin-lace insets at the corners or along the edge?? Hate to cut it up...but hate worse for it to lie in a box. BTW, I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this list and have found it very inspirational :) Very nice group of people :) Thanks for your help and suggestions in advance! Jeannie Grainne Finneadan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 14:10:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30050 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:10:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA06071; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:06:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA13097 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:08:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA13082 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:08:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.190 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:07:40 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Scottish Jackets Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:04:25 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be4e16$caf8c2a0$8a17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199902011437.IAA27119@host1.texramp.net> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" After replying to your request about the Sherrifmuir( sp?), I've kept my eyes open for an actual pattern. No luck, exactly, but if you look at Mairead Dunlevy's book, Dress in Ireland, you'll see photographs of soft wool jackets pulled ot of some bog somewhere, which are not unlike the Sherrifmuir on the Scottish tailors WebPages I referenced you to. The tailor's site obviously showed a stiff, very formal, and impressive version of the jacket, but the jackets in Dunlevy are the soft, folk-version of the same thing, and eminently makable by the home sewer, and far more comfortable for dancing and sport. I've seen enough pictures in Scots references to know that the same garb was worn there. So you might try Dunlevy's pictures, and develop the same pattern. It's simple, no expert tailoring required. It came in a version with sleeves, and another version which had a strip of fabric on the top of the arm only, allowing the shirt to billow out below. The strip was sewn to the shoulder and cuffed or tied at the wrists or allowed to hang down the back. The same jacket with the arm strips was also very frequently made in embossed colored leather in Ireland, anyway. Hope H. Dunlap Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sterling Ranne Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 9:38 AM To: f-costume@indra.com; h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: OT: Sewing & Pattern mailing lists... -Poster: "Sterling Ranne" Hi, Sorry for the off topic, but I was wondering if anyone here had information on other sewing related mailing lists. I'm looking for a few hard to find patterns (Kilt Jackets and such, which I had at first thought might be found here.) and was wanting to post to lists and groups that might have information on them. If anyone here might have some information on Kilt Jackets that could lead me in the right direction, or the types of lists or newsgroups to look in, I would appreciate it. To keep the OT traffic to a minimum please respond to: sranne@hydroseal.com Thanx Sterling 92.5% Pure ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 14:19:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30092 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:19:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA08774; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:24:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA16085 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:26:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA16077 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:26:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA31321 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:26:51 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:26:50 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: z'out/synthrapol and Help! In-Reply-To: <000401be4e16$d1aee660$8a17ffd0@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> Speaking with difficulties getting stains out, a friend of mine has a mildewed tent he would like to restore. The difficulty lies in getting all the mildew out of heavy (formerly white) canvas without weakening it. Any ideas? Emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 14:20:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30107 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:20:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA08707; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:24:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA16051 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:26:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA16042 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:26:13 -0700 (MST) From: Schiap1@aol.com Received: from Schiap1@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id WUBVa26231 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:25:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:25:26 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Re: underwire and lightning Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Schiap1@aol.com Sarah J - thanks so much for the reference! I really appreciate it. Did you know if a specific year was given for this incident, or at least a decade? Thanks again for the info, it has helped so much. Lyn FitzGerald _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 14:26:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30141 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:26:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA09700; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:31:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA17179 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:33:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.iastate.edu (mailhub.iastate.edu [129.186.1.102]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA17171 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:33:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from costumes.center.iastate.edu (costumes.center.iastate.edu [129.186.127.4]) by mailhub.iastate.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA09535 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:33:12 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199902011933.NAA09535@mailhub.iastate.edu> X-Sender: djnash@pop-2.iastate.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 13:34:14 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Doris J. Nash" Subject: Re: H-COST: Costumes for Glamour photography Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Doris J. Nash" At 01:47 PM 1/29/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >Yesterday I posted to the list that I was about to resign myself to the >prospect that there is no market for my costuming in my location. Well, >wouldn't you know, today I talked to a local photography studio that does a >lot of "glamour" photography, and is interested in having some things made. >I'll be going to talk to them about it tomorrow. > >If anyone on the list has done this kind of work, or even been to this sort >of a photo session, I'd love to hear from them, hopefully before tomorrow. >I'm most interested in how these garments are constructed and what >provisions there are for different sizes, but any info would be welcome. > >Margo Anderson > Sorry, Margo, I just read your message today, so I hope my experience helps. I had Glamour Shots done last December. It was great fun! I picked out a large straw hat I wanted to wear for one set of poses, and they said they had a top and scarf to match, so I wore the entire outfit. My other outfits were more in the sequin and crushed velvet category, all modern. I realized, when I read your post, that photos in costume would be terrific. I think I'll mention it to them the next time I'm in there. Titanic-type stuff is very hot right now, of course, but some Rennaissance or other period costumes would be neat to have on hand, I would think. Everything I wore had Velcro up the back, to make it adjustable. That would be a major factor in the construction and design of things for such an establishment. HTH, Doris =================== Doris Nash Costume Shop Supervisor, Iowa State University "...with ruffs and cuffs, and farthingales and things." --Shakespeare, The Taming of the Shrew _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 14:31:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30173 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:31:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA10749; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:36:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA18032 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:38:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA18009 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:38:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA03255 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:38:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B602C8.C4227C0F@serv.net> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 11:38:48 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Rayon References: <199902010756.AAA05077@indra.com> <36B61F70.65A6@mc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > Can anyone tell me what "tencel" rayon is? It seems to be some kind of > New-and-Improved rayon, but I haven't seen it and probly wouldn't know > what to expect of it if I did. Well, I don't know if tencel is rayon or not, but I have seen and touched tencel. Lovely stuff really. Come to think of it, I thought it was some kind of synthetic. However, this is not a bad thing. Tencel is lovely fabric, medium weight, *VERY* drapey, kind of a peachy, brushed feel to it. It comes in lovely colors, feels really really nice and it's a bit too expensive for me. -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 14:33:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30188 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:33:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA11254; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:38:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA18363 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:40:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mb06.swip.net (mb06.swip.net [193.12.122.210]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA18354; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:40:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.244.205.105] (dialup205-2-41.swipnet.se [130.244.205.105]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA15916; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:40:29 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: md21199@dredd.swip.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990131235333.006e2218@binary.net> References: <199902010349.UAA15469@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:12:28 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Ninni M Pettersson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Costume Con Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ninni M Pettersson At 06.53 +0100 99-02-01, Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: >Costume Con is a wonderful event that is very informative and great fun for >any type of costumer. Drool, drool. Why, oh why, don't we have events like this here in Sweden? Yes, I know, we are far to few interested in costuming to make it work, but I would *so* love to go to an event like this. /Ninni Pettersson PS Stitching beads on to gold trim is boring, boring, boring! But that is all that is left on the 1545 doll outfit :-) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 14:37:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30209 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:36:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA11801; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:42:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA18843 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:44:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from dskfw2.funb.com (dskfw2.funb.com [168.175.254.62]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA18804 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:43:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by dskfw2.funb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA24259 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:43:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from clt-exch-03.funb.com(168.175.76.27) by dskfw2.funb.com via smap (V2.0) id xma024227; Mon, 1 Feb 99 14:42:57 -0500 Received: by clt-exch-03.capmark.funb.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1AGP9K6J>; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:42:58 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Stapelton, Gregory" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: z'out/synthrapol and Help! Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:42:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Stapelton, Gregory" F'breeze really does remove odors, per my experience. I don't know if it would kill the mildew or not though. I'd recommend a scrub with a 10% Clorox solution followed by drying and then spraying with F'Breeze.... You could try a small section, first. Gawain > -----Original Message----- > Speaking with difficulties getting stains out, a friend of mine has a > mildewed tent he would like to restore. The difficulty lies in getting > all the mildew out of heavy (formerly white) canvas without weakening it. > Any ideas? > > Emma > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 14:40:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30236 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:40:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA12487; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:46:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA19471 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA19451 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:47:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 19113 invoked from network); 1 Feb 1999 19:50:53 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-62.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.62) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 1999 19:50:53 -0000 Message-ID: <36B629D6.7E88@mc.net> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 14:25:26 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: aglets References: <199902011557.IAA07789@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Thanks for the pic, Aleed, you are a treasure with that site of yours! A couple of q's for everyone: (1) Exactly how is the wire wrapped onto the glass, or is it stuck into it while the glass is hot? (2) Can anyone point me to a source on various known ways and materials for making these critters? (n'WAAAY can I afford Lizzies Wardrobe, lock'd or unlock'd...) I am a garbmaking supplier and would *love* to be able to provide these for garbsters at reasonable prices... BTW, I'll consider purchasing them from anyone who figures out a fast cheap way to make them (documentably period please). Oh, yeah: Plastic shoelace ends are still called aglets. Heather/Sister Ed _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 14:45:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30267 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:45:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA13124; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:50:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA20164 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:51:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA20158 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:51:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 20636 invoked from network); 1 Feb 1999 19:54:44 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-62.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.62) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 1999 19:54:44 -0000 Message-ID: <36B62ABE.2D63@mc.net> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 14:29:18 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Kilt jackets References: <199902011557.IAA07789@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Have you tried the Folkwear pattern sellers? Yes, I know, Lark Books is supposedly being sold (and Folkwear along with) but a lot of folks have their patterns in stock. Also, peruse the backs of Threads, Sew News, and other sewing magazines for historical pattern makers/sellers. Hope this helps a little, Heather _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 15:18:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA30451 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:18:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA17566; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:23:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA25693 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:25:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA25674; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:25:32 -0700 (MST) From: Luiseach@aol.com Received: from Luiseach@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ADWAa07017; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:24:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <81feee5c.36b60d95@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:24:53 EST To: owner-h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: RE: H-COST: Re: z'out/synthrapol and Help! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Luiseach@aol.com In a message dated 02/01/99 11:09:23 AM, hhdunlap@email.msn.com wrote: <> You can buy Synthrapol from places that sell supplies for silk painting, tie dying, etc. I get mine mail order from Dharma Trading in California. They are online at www.dharmatrading.com. Synthrapol is great stuff, so is Milsoft, which is an industrial strength fabric softener to use on stuff you've dyed or painted. Usual commercial disclaimer, happy customer recommendation Lucinda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 15:48:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA30654 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:48:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA22566; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:51:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA00831 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:53:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from host1.texramp.net (root@host1.texramp.net [209.144.20.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA00816 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:53:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from LocalHost (hydroseal.com [209.144.20.50]) by host1.texramp.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA21672; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:52:55 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199902012052.OAA21672@host1.texramp.net> From: "Sterling Ranne" To: "ML: International Costuming Guild" , , "ML: Historical Costume" Subject: Re: H-COST: Scottish Jackets Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:56:05 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Sterling Ranne" > -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > After replying to your request about the Sherrifmuir( sp?), > I've kept my eyes open for an actual pattern. No luck, Thank you for responding. Somehow I had misplaced, but not deleted, your original response. (Most likely came one morning when I was busy and I saved it till later, then forgot about it.) I feel real bad about it too cause its full of good information. Thanx for the ideas re: Tartan Web (a page I have referred others to many times, but did not consider as a likely place for patterns till your mention of it) and for the jackets pages as well. I'll take a good look at them. The back views especially will be helpful when modifying without the aid of patterns. I have found a Prince Charlie Jacket pattern. If I can't locate anything closer I will be ordering it and attempting to modify it. Hopefully, with the aid of some of the references you have given me I (somewhat of a beginner) and my Aunt (very much so 'not' a beginner, but unfortunately also not a costumer) will be able to make something passable. Price is the main reason I would like to do my own jacket. As you noted, the Sheriffmuir is one of the more expensive styles. I have several sources for 'off the rack' and custom tailored. All have the Sheriffmuir priced out of my range for a 'costuming' event. **A thought for those on the list more knowledgeable than I.** I won two round-trip tickets from BA during their "Ride the Rocket" Costume Contest last year and will be going to London the first week of May. While I know that London is not Scotland, is anyone in the group aware of locations in London where Scottish type patterns/tartans etc. might be had? I won't have a lot of time for digging through basements and what-not, but do have a couple of half days for shopping. Sterling 92.5% Pure sranne@hydroseal.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 16:50:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00670 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:50:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA01552; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:53:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA11133 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:54:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA11106 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:54:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p46.directcon.net [206.170.184.95]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA18096 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:49:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:49:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902012149.NAA18096@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Sewing & Pattern mailing lists... Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 08:37 AM 2/1/99 -0600, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Sterling Ranne" > >Hi, > >Sorry for the off topic, but I was wondering if anyone here had information >on other sewing related mailing lists. There are several costume lists on Onelist. I subscribed to all of them for about a week, but I found them redundant compared to this one. The only other sewing list I'm familiar with is Sewbiz, which is an excellent source for people in the sewing business. I don't have current subscription information, but a search engine could find it easily enough. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 16:51:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA00678 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:50:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA01863; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:55:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA11496 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:56:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA11476 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:56:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA28010 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:59:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA19894 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:57:55 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:57:55 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: aglets In-Reply-To: <36B629D6.7E88@mc.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed It looks like the aglets in the photo have a metal cap on them with a loop for the ribbon/cord/thread to go through that looks a lot like the metal tops to crystal pendants you can find in jewelry catalogs. If I could find the spirally glass bits, I could put the pendant tops on myself. Hmm... New Time-Consuming Project... Drea > > Thanks for the pic, Aleed, you are a treasure with that site of yours! > A couple of q's for everyone: (1) Exactly how is the wire wrapped onto > the glass, or is it stuck into it while the glass is hot? (2) Can > anyone point me to a source on various known ways and materials for > making these critters? (n'WAAAY can I afford Lizzies Wardrobe, lock'd or > unlock'd...) I am a garbmaking supplier and would *love* to be able to > provide these for garbsters at reasonable prices... BTW, I'll consider > purchasing them from anyone who figures out a fast cheap way to make > them (documentably period please). > > Oh, yeah: Plastic shoelace ends are still called aglets. > > Heather/Sister Ed > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 17:24:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00900 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:24:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA06384; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:24:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA17006 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:26:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA16991 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:26:14 -0700 (MST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id TKBAa20553; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:17:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <72e0ca8f.36b62811@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:17:53 EST To: sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu, atlantia@atlantia.sca.org, h-needlework@Ansteorra.org, h-costume@indra.com, cards-l@frank.mtsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Silk Threads Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com A question: given that all other parameters are the same, which type of silk thread would be more correct for medieval textiles: one with a matte finish or one with a shiny finish? Nancy (Ingvild) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 17:36:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00971 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:36:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA08795; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:40:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA20075 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:42:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from shooter.bluemarble.net (shooter.bluemarble.net [204.89.253.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA20040 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:42:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from wizzer (tc1-07.blm.bluemarble.net [208.245.166.104]) by shooter.bluemarble.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA16720 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:42:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990201174309.007b5800@bluemarble.net> X-Sender: kimberly@bluemarble.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 17:43:09 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kimberly Gilbert Subject: Re: H-COST: pricing question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kimberly Gilbert >If it were me, I'd stand firm. I think the initial response on the part of >many is to "negotiate" by belittling the starting price in some manner to >catch the vendor off guard. I don't even blink anymore. I tell them what >it'd be worth for me to do it, let them gasp, then if they decide they want to >splurge great, if not, that's okay too. It's the luxury a "day job" provides! I agree. And yes, I do stand firm. If people aren't willing to pay (and like I said, I charge VERY low prices), then they have the option of trying to find the same thing in a store for less than I ask. Kimberly Kimberly Gilbert kimberly@bluemarble.net "This is terrible news! Do you actually intend to kill your enemies? Can't you just speak sternly to them?" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 18:04:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01115 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:04:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA13381; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:08:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA24989 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:10:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from send101.yahoomail.com (send101.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.87]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id QAA24957 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:10:35 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990201230855.12203.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Received: from [153.35.253.176] by send101.yahoomail.com; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 15:08:54 PST Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:08:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Kristen M. Sieber" Subject: H-COST: Fabric width? To: Historic Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" A book I am reading takes place in 13th century England. It mentions that one of the kings ruled that woven fabric had to be a standard width, but it fails to mention that width. Anyone know? == Morgaine of Glastonbury MKA Kristen Morgaine Sieber Barony of Aquaterra Kingdom of An Tir lady_gawain@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 19:01:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01452 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:01:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA23883; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:07:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA05626 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:08:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA05608 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:08:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from bright.net (find-cas2-cs-33.dial.bright.net [209.143.26.187]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with ESMTP id TAA17862 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:08:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36B66B11.FA5C3969@bright.net> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 19:03:45 -0800 From: lena meyer Organization: Premier Designs X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; U; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Beaded Fringe References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: lena meyer Ioana, I would try Baer's Fabrics in Louisville Ky USA, they mail order many types of fringe, and may stock beaded fringe. I believe they have a web site to contact. Lena _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 20:01:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA01915 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:01:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA02828; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:06:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA13861 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:08:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us (root@scls1.suffolk.lib.ny.us [199.173.91.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA13844 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:08:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from bchamber (dial-in95.suffolk.lib.ny.us [199.173.93.95]) by bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA03664 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:03:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000a01be4e48$9d328c20$5f5dadc7@bchamber> From: "Beth" To: Subject: H-COST: Tencel Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:08:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE4E1E.B31D9B80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Beth" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE4E1E.B31D9B80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Since my text books are too old to include tencel I looked up "tencel" = on the Web. It is also chemically altered plant fibers. In this case, = trees are used. If anyone isn't already sold on Tencel fabrics based on = their appearance and drape check one web site I found WWW.tencel.com It = is being produced from trees harvested in managed forests (planting = either equals or exceeds harvesting rates), the solvents used are = nontoxic and recycled. Tencel is also biodegradable.=20 I've been meaning to find out more about Tencel - I'm happy someone = finally "made" me do it. Beth ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE4E1E.B31D9B80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Since my text books are too old to = include=20 tencel I looked up "tencel" on the Web. It is also chemically = altered=20 plant fibers. In this case, trees are used. If anyone isn't already sold = on=20 Tencel fabrics based on their appearance and drape check one web site I = found WWW.tencel.com It is being produced = from trees=20 harvested in managed forests (planting either equals or exceeds = harvesting=20 rates), the solvents used are nontoxic and recycled. Tencel is also=20 biodegradable.
 
I've been meaning to find out more = about Tencel=20 - I'm happy someone finally "made" me do it.
 
Beth
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BE4E1E.B31D9B80-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 21:14:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA02318 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:14:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA13570; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:19:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA22133 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:21:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy.netwizards.net (qmailr@Proxy.NetWizards.Net [206.99.115.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id TAA21997 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:21:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 14728 invoked from network); 2 Feb 1999 03:27:25 -0000 Received: from bayarea56k462.netwiz.net (HELO slave) (208.164.208.62) by proxy.netwizards.net with SMTP; 2 Feb 1999 03:27:25 -0000 Message-ID: <36B66119.4E65@netwiz.net> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 18:21:13 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: z'out/synthrapol and Help! References: <19990201070920.3251.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi Jeannie Harwell wrote: > > -Poster: "Jeannie Harwell" > > Hi! I'm delurking and have two questions I could really use help with: > > 1) on a previous posting: > My first question is, what is Z'out and how is it different from > Synthrapol and where would one acquire it? Would this help on below? I don't know what it is, not being chemically savvy, but it's magic. I do know it's a surfactant and is esp. good on protein and food stains: blood, chocolate, soy sauce, cat food, regurgitated cat food, excreted cat food and other bodily fluids. Also oily stains and mystery stains. I get it at the drug store or supermarket with the laundry stuff and other stain removers. I don't know if it was the Z'out or the synthrepol or a combination of the two that worked. Who cares! For other stain and odor problems there's also something called Nature's Miracle that really is. Maybe someone else can answer the quilt question. Personally I'd use the synthrepol as it's supposed to hold the excess dye in suspension till it can go down the drain! > date (1942), so is very very sentimental)---anyhow, the backing was pink > and it bled when washed (cold water, too) and now all the white blocks > on the front are pink too :( I've been hoping there might be someway to > reverse or lift out the bled dye, but am reluctant to experiment (and > maybe make it worse) unless I feel I have a shot at fixing it. It > hasn't been washed again since it bled. This is a really good reason to PREWASH fabric before you sew it! If you can't get the stains out of the linen, maybe you could dye it? I wouldn't waste that much good linen on a *table*!! :-) Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 21:23:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA02369 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:23:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA14536; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:29:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA23138 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:30:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA23122 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:30:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.137] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 107Vbt-0004xw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:30:41 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 18:31:21 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Glass Aglets In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 08:34 AM 2/1/99, "Stapelton, Gregory" wrote: They are the >little doo-hickies that go on the end of ties that are lacing up a bodice or >holding on a sleeve, etc. ... ... In period, they were most commonly made from thin >sheets of metal, rolled into a cone shape, as I understand it. --Gawain Kilgore And if you've ever looked at the ends of a metal-tipped 'bolo' tie, then you know how an aiglet looks, essentially. Some folk in reenactment buy those from Tandy Leather and other such suppliers. I'm not sure how they attach them--my surmise is that there is a way of closing the open end sufficiently to hold. Carol Cannon _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 21:35:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA02433 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:35:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA16076; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:41:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA24592 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA24584 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:42:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnaco.net (pm3-3-2.dnaco.net [207.238.205.66]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA09518 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:46:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36B6664A.9F39CA34@dnaco.net> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 21:43:22 -0500 From: Christine Krebs-Bonder <2maples@dnaco.net> Organization: Two Maples X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Glass Aglets References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christine Krebs-Bonder <2maples@dnaco.net> The few times I've used the metal aiglets, I've used a bit of glue on the end of the cord then crimped the open end slightly if the aiglet didn't have any piercings to run needle and thread through. Christine Krebs-Bonder, Dayton, Ohio "Carol J. Bell Cannon" wrote: > -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > At 08:34 AM 2/1/99, "Stapelton, Gregory" > wrote: They are the > >little doo-hickies that go on the end of ties that are lacing up a bodice or > >holding on a sleeve, etc. ... ... In period, they were most > commonly made from thin > >sheets of metal, rolled into a cone shape, as I understand it. --Gawain > Kilgore > And if you've ever looked at the ends of a metal-tipped 'bolo' tie, > then you know how an aiglet looks, essentially. Some folk in reenactment > buy those from Tandy Leather and other such suppliers. I'm not sure how > they attach them--my surmise is that there is a way of closing the open end > sufficiently to hold. Carol Cannon > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 23:05:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02926 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:05:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA28243; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:10:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA04274 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:11:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id VAA04265 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:11:44 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:11:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 21144 invoked from network); 2 Feb 1999 04:07:06 -0000 Received: from 104.64.3-6.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.231.64.104) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 1999 04:07:06 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990201201132.2a87e14c@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: H-COST: Mildewed tent, was RE: z'out/synthrapol and Help! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 01:26 PM 02/01/1999 -0600, Emma Elizabeth Lehman wrote: > >Speaking with difficulties getting stains out, a friend of mine has a >mildewed tent he would like to restore. The difficulty lies in getting >all the mildew out of heavy (formerly white) canvas without weakening it. >Any ideas? > >Emma Unfortunately, the mildew may have weakened the canvas (depending upon how long it's been stored that way). If weather permits, put the tent up, then go at it with soapy water (you can add bleach to it if you want) and brooms or brushes. Then rinse thoroughly and allow it to dry completely before taking it down. It may not be pristine when you are done, but it should be greatly improved. Good luck, Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 23:08:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02939 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:08:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA28702; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:13:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA04660 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:15:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id VAA04653 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:15:16 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:15:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 21852 invoked from network); 2 Feb 1999 04:10:37 -0000 Received: from 104.64.3-6.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.231.64.104) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 1999 04:10:37 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990201201503.2a87f844@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk Threads Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 05:17 PM 02/01/1999 EST, SNSpies@aol.com wrote: > >-Poster: SNSpies@aol.com > >A question: given that all other parameters are the same, which type of silk >thread would be more correct for medieval textiles: one with a matte finish >or one with a shiny finish? > >Nancy (Ingvild) Definitely shiny. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 1 23:36:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03122 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:35:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA02348; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:41:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA07542 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:43:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA07533 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:43:14 -0700 (MST) From: MissMela@aol.com Received: from MissMela@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id QRPGa04329 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:40:15 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:40:15 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Beaded Fringe Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 205 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MissMela@aol.com Try Kagans in Los Angeles California. I believe they have a web site. Also mentioned in the Whole Costumers Catalog _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 00:30:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA04101 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:30:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA08991; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:35:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA14064 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:37:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (root@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us [168.150.253.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA14054 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:37:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from nomad.cwnet.com (dcn116.dcn.davis.ca.us [168.150.253.116]) by wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (8.8.7/DCN8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA15715 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:37:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:46:02 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE4E2C.43085660.nomad@dcn.davis.ca.us> From: Margo Glenn-Lewis To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Beaded Fringe Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:33:56 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Glenn-Lewis I don't usually look at beaded fringe (my dance costuming tends to the folkloric). My best recollection is that those prices sound reasonable. Outrageous, isn't it? What's a poor cabaret dancer to do? On the other hand, the price of a really nice coin belt is way up there too. So us "ethnic" types aren't really all that much better off! Good luck with your costume, and your dance. Margo Glenn-Lewis nomad@dcn.davis.ca.us Opal Sun Softweare "Don't forget your bucket." Ice Machine in the Desert/Brave Combo -----Original Message----- From: Ioana Timariu [SMTP:ioana@yucc.yorku.ca] Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 11:02 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Beaded Fringe -Poster: Ioana Timariu Hello! I'm trying to create a belly-dancing costume. I'm looking for a provider of beaded fringe. I'd love to manually make the fringe, but I have a deadline for the costume .. I have to dance in it in April!)... Most providers I found on the internet ask for 40 (3 inch width) to 60$ (4 inch width) per yard. Is this a reasonable price? I live in Toronto, Ontario, but any reasonably-priced provider from anywhere in the world would do. Thank you very much! -ioana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 00:45:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA04209 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:45:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA10744; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:51:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA15382 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:52:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA15372 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:52:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p27.directcon.net [206.170.184.76]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA23967 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:47:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:47:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902020547.VAA23967@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Glass Aglets Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson > And if you've ever looked at the ends of a metal-tipped 'bolo' tie, >then you know how an aiglet looks, essentially. Some folk in reenactment >buy those from Tandy Leather and other such suppliers. I'm not sure how >they attach them--my surmise is that there is a way of closing the open end >sufficiently to hold The ones I've used have sort of "fingers" of metal around the open end, which can be crimped around the ribbon or cord being used. They also have small holes which you can sew through for extra security. I like to put a small pearl or other bead over each hole, resulting in a row of them around thetop of the aiglet for a rossette like finish. And, just to be on the safe side, I also squirt some glue in the cone before inserting the ribbon. Aglets were also used, almost always in pairs, as surface decoration, rather than for a functional purpose. This would seem to be the best way to use the glass ones, rather than letting them swing around at the end of a ribbon point. If you look at the picture in Arnold, you'll notice that one of them is broken. It's easy to surmise why this is the only example. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 00:51:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA04291 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:51:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA11154; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:56:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA15879 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:58:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA15869 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:58:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p27.directcon.net [206.170.184.76]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA24662 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:53:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:53:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902020553.VAA24662@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Mildewed tent, was RE: z'out/synthrapol and Help! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson My only advice on this is, whatever you do, test it before you go camping. Before I went off to the SCA's 20th year celebration, I decided to have my canvas tent cleaned. The first Texas thunderstorm revealed that the only thing that had been keeping the rain out all those years was the dirt. The rained poured in, and I spent the rest of the week in my friend's tent. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 01:28:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA04785 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 01:28:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA13537; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:33:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA18516 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:35:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from morgoth.tuug.org (root@morgoth.tuug.org [130.232.72.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA18509 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:35:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from lynoure@localhost (fake: stdin (EHLO localhost) (ident: uid#15211@localhost)) by tuug.org with ESMTP id <40876-17209>; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:35:29 +0200 Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:35:26 +0200 (EET) From: Ella Lynoure Rajamaki To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Costume Con In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ella Lynoure Rajamaki On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Ninni M Pettersson wrote: > Drool, drool. Why, oh why, don't we have events like this here in > Sweden? Yes, I know, we are far to few interested in costuming to make it > work, but I would *so* love to go to an event like this. Let's see what we can do about it, then? I live quite next door, in Finland. Ella Lynoure Rajamaki _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 01:49:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA04883 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 01:49:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA14971; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:54:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA19926 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:56:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from eterna.binary.net (eterna.binary.net [12.13.84.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA19909 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:56:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from dialup.binary.net (lnk1-ppp-2.binary.net [207.140.121.2]) by eterna.binary.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA29739 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:56:04 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990202004525.00cf8188@binary.net> X-Sender: costumrs@binary.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 00:45:25 -0600 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: Costume Con and rust stains In-Reply-To: <199902012155.OAA11194@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Rust Stains: >- -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" >By the way, rust will come out with a product called The >Rust Gun. The bottle doesn't say what the >active ingredient is, but it claims it doesn't cause fabric >detrioration. I don't know about Rust Gun, but oxalic acid neutralizes rust - reacts with the iron oxide to give a colorless compound. It's the active ingredient in Zud cleanser. I have used a solution of Zud to remove small rust spots in fabric, with decent results. No scrubbing, just sponging, and a good rinse. Note: some red/yellow/brown dyes get their color from iron oxide - these colors will fade with a rust remover. Test first. > Costume Con: >- -Poster: Ninni M Pettersson > >Why, oh why, don't we have events like this here in >Sweden? Yes, I know, we are far to few interested in costuming to make it >work, but I would *so* love to go to an event like this. > There is a "Costume Con" in the UK - it's called Masque. It was the first weekend in October this year. The president of the Costumer's Guild U.K. is Mike Percival - e-mail: CGUK@ireadh.demon.co.uk He is usually involved with this convention. Perhaps this would be easier to get to than one in the U.S.? Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 01:56:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA04925 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 01:56:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA15548; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:02:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA20629 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:03:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id AAA20614 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:03:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 6345 invoked from network); 2 Feb 1999 07:06:49 -0000 Received: from tntmodem1-174.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.133.174) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 2 Feb 1999 07:06:49 -0000 Message-ID: <36B6C847.5383@mc.net> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 01:41:27 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Glamour shots References: <199902012155.OAA11194@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law At the Hallowe'en trade show last year, I saw some wonderful Victorians. I asked about them and was told they were more than $400-and remember, this was wholesale. I asked why and was told they were made for people to have pictures taken in at amusement parks and the like. They had to be made really sturdy to outlast the abuse. Carol Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 04:47:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA11466 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 04:47:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA25126; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:52:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA29930 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:54:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailgate.caci.co.uk (mailgate.caci.co.uk [195.173.80.20]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA29924 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:54:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from caci_ntas1.caci.co.uk (caci_ntas1.caci.co.uk [194.70.42.18]) by mailgate.caci.co.uk (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA12631 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:51:38 GMT Received: by caci_ntas1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:51:34 -0000 Message-ID: From: Christina Nevin To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: C.9th Dutch costume Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:51:32 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christina Nevin Hello, Can anyone please help this gentleman with an URL or book? It's somewhat out of my area of expertise! TIA - Tina ---------- From: Maarten Cornelis To: thorngrove@geocities.com Hello, I am a Theater derector from Belgium and I am surching for Historic right Clothing from the 9th century in The Netherlands (Carolingers). Can you say me on site I can find this information or in wich book.. Warm greatings LUC ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Lady Lucrezia-Isabella di Freccia | mka Tina Nevin Thamesreach Shire, The Isles, Drachenwald | London, UK thorngrove@geocities.com | http://www.geocities.com/~thorngrove "There is no doubt that great leaders prefer hard drinkers to good versifiers" - Aretino, 1536 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 05:27:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA11662 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 05:27:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA26306; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 03:32:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA25172 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 03:34:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA24821 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 03:33:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) id <01J79K23J1E800AYT4@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:35:47 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) with ESMTP id <01J79K22WCKE00AINF@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 02 Feb 1999 10:35:37 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.43); Tue, 02 Feb 1999 10:33:29 +0000 (GMT0BST) Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.43); Tue, 02 Feb 1999 10:33:14 +0000 (GMT0BST) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 10:33:09 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: H-COST: CostumeCon - UK Version... In-reply-to: <199902011908.MAA13117@indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Teddy > By "over here" I mean Germany and as far as I`m informed the rest > of Europe as well. But maybe there are Costume Cons in the UK? They > seem to have everything I miss in this country ;-)... (a costume > society, a Victorian society etc. ...) > > Greetings, > Diana Hi Diana, Yes there are Costume Conventions in the UK. I should add this is *not* costume con, but is run on similar principles. The Con is called "Masque: The British Costume Convention" and has so far only been a Weekend event (Friday afternoon/evening to Sunday afternoon). There are three Masquerades (competitions). The Science Fiction/Fantasy, The Historical and the "Anything Goes" (the latter was formerly known as the "Galactic Fashion show" and is a "catch-all" competiton where anything that doesn't fit into the first two can be shown There are some good "serious" costumes shown as well as the "joke" entries/presentations. For example, someone might enter a "historical" costume that is designed for *stage/theatre* (as opposed to re-enactment etc) in the Anything Goes Masquerade. Traditionally, it is the last masquerade of the event as that allows extra time for completion of costumes made in the "Chaos Costume Workshop" at the event, so they too can be shown. There are also discussions, workshops , talks and demonstrations on all sorts of costume related subjects and there's usually a very good costume-photographer with a studio set up on site to photograph the Masquerade entries and any other costumes perople want pictures of. His wife may even be teading this... Cathy, are you lurking? We're years behind our US counterparts in getting costume conventions off the ground here, but we are gradually building up the numbers of people who attend. This year will be our seventh. I was on the committee to organize last year's in Eastbourn, on the south coast of England. Masque Seven will be in the Birmingham area in September. The event is usually a lot of fun (even if we do have to take some time out from the convention to hold the Costume Guild UK AGM...) Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 07:26:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA00732 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:26:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA01228; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 05:29:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA05532 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 05:31:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmx09.globecomm.net (rmx09.iname.net [165.251.8.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA05525 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 05:30:57 -0700 (MST) From: sue-historian@writeme.com Received: from weba4.iname.net by rmx09.globecomm.net (8.9.1/8.8.0) with ESMTP id HAA08114 ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:30:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (from root@localhost) by weba4.iname.net (8.9.1a/8.9.2.Alpha2) id HAA00632; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:30:53 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <9902020730530Y.28159@weba4.iname.net> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:30:53 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Posture - 18, 19 Centuries and now Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: sue-historian@writeme.com Is our posture today so very different from that of the 18 and 19 centuries? I am sure that corsets and stiffenings make us upright, but do reeanctors today get the very "upright and shoulders back" look we see in portraits of the women 100 years ago and more ? Sue sue-historian@writeme.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- Get your free email from AltaVista at http://altavista.iname.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 07:39:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA00801 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:39:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA01988; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 05:44:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA06147 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 05:46:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA06139 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 05:46:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2FZH6PV; Tue, 02 Feb 1999 07:46:06 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Waterproofing Tents (was z'out, etc.) Message-ID: <19980920.172252.5351.12.kayherb@juno.com> References: <199902020553.VAA24662@zeus.directcon.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,12-17 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 07:46:06 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" Margo, (Remembering the midnight drip, drip, drip at a coooooold Maryland event where my daughter and I ended up sleeping in the truck....) Next time try Thompson's water seal. Apply it to the dry canvas. Some who've done it have used paintbrushes, but if you aren't really, really talented in getting equal amounts everywhere, there will be variations in shade (brush marks) as the canvas ages. I've put mine in a huge garbage bag, poured in the water seal, and squeezed the whole contraption to soak the canvas. Then put the tent up like you would normally, and leave it out (not in full sun) for a day or two till it dries and the smell goes away. That seems to be the ticket. And when you come home from a damp or wet event, set the tent up till it's completely dry. The treatment lasted about four years, then I did it again after scrubbing the canvas. Hope this helps! Kay Herb kayherb@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 07:50:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA00867 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:50:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA02524; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 05:56:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA06637 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 05:57:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from oak.ait.fredonia.edu (oak.ait.fredonia.edu [141.238.1.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id FAA06632 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 05:57:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from [141.238.21.199] by oak.ait.fredonia.edu (NTMail 3.03.0018/1.aapi) with ESMTP id ha985043 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:55:09 -0500 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Carol Blanchard" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:56:37 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: H-COST: RE: bleaching linen Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.32a) Message-Id: <12550945607231@ait.fredonia.edu> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol Blanchard" It is my experience as a dyer that when you use Chlorine bleach to either clean or remove color from fabric, that even rinsing it well doesn't remove all the traces of the bleach. Since Chlorine can continue working on the fabric long after you think its out, its a good idea to chemically stop its action before it weakens the fibres. You can do this by adding a small amount of hydrogen peroxide to the second rinse water. In this way the bleach has been neutralized and its action stopped. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 09:00:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01248 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:00:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA08215; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:05:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA12278 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:07:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from dskfw2.funb.com (dskfw2.funb.com [168.175.254.62]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA12270 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:07:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by dskfw2.funb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA02632 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:06:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from clt-conn-04.funb.com(168.175.76.78) by dskfw2.funb.com via smap (V2.0) id xma002596; Tue, 2 Feb 99 09:06:29 -0500 Received: by clt-conn-04.capmark.funb.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1AGRFWA5>; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:06:30 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Stapelton, Gregory" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Waterproofing Tents (was z'out, etc.) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:06:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Stapelton, Gregory" an inexpensive garden sprayer is also a great way to apply thompson's to your tent. just be sure to overlap your sprays. i also recommend getting a can of k-cote seam sealer and doing the seams on the inside as added protection. can be found a most outdoors / sporting goods stores. Gawain > -----Original Message----- > From: Kathryn L. Herb [SMTP:kayherb@juno.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 7:46 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Waterproofing Tents (was z'out, etc.) > > > -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" > > Margo, > (Remembering the midnight drip, drip, drip at a coooooold Maryland event > where my daughter and I ended up sleeping in the truck....) Next time > try Thompson's water seal. Apply it to the dry canvas. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 09:31:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01479 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:31:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA11475; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:37:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA15810 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:38:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA15798 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:38:49 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id SMZHa05309 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:38:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:38:00 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Posture - 18, 19 Centuries and now Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Sue, Yes, posture is very different today. It is easier to see if you look at a period garment, say 1770 dress on a 1950's store mannequin or even more dramatic a 1970's store mannequin. In the 1970's mannequin, the shoulders follow a line from the earlobe and the side seams are straight down from that line dividing the body in half - a very athletic posture. First, that 1770's dress wouldn't fit because the roundness of the bosom was flattened by the stay (corset).Beyond the flattened bust, the stay reinforced the body with the shoulders back and dropped down dividing the body into 5ths (not 1/2 like the 1970's mannequin). 3/5s of the body was front and 2/5s was the back. To support this shape, the toes pointed to the side as in first position ballet and the hips and spine were more swayed back (again putting more of the body up front). The same 1770's dress on the mannequin would have the shoulder rotator cup poking out about 3 -4 inches to the front affecting the hang of the total garment. But hey, we wouldn't have to worry about the hips as the skirt fullness and the artificial padding (1770 pocket hoops -- the "shoulder pads" of the period) would solve that problem. 19th century changed silhouettes and body stance several times. We continue to change in the 20th century as comfort, sports, and the women's equality drive what we wear. Personally, though, I prefer the body shaping of the 18th century to 3 hours a day in a gym but that is another topic altogether! Enjoy looking at period prints, Sally www.sallyqueenassociates.com Costume Calendar Series _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 09:50:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01576 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:50:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA14352; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:55:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA18610 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:57:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA18597 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:57:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a61.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.189]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA15662 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:57:07 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36B7123F.E3D5A4DA@nash.tds.net> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 08:57:03 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: aglets References: <199902011557.IAA07789@indra.com> <36B629D6.7E88@mc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat I've used the metal bolo tips to finish off laces that go through large eyelets/grommets. However, when I was making Kent's celtic nightmare doublet for Ren last year I wanted something to tip the leather laces with that would fit through small eyelets. Whilst shopping for beads for another project I found some metal spacer beads that look like small coils. These come in silver & gold. I found that they fit perfectly through the small eyelets, hold on well with a drop of superglue and make the outfit look fantastic! So, another option...which reminds me...I need to go get some more! Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 10:08:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01691 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:08:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA16949; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:14:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA21407 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:16:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA21391 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:15:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA28161 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:19:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25313 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:17:19 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:17:14 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: aglets In-Reply-To: <36B7123F.E3D5A4DA@nash.tds.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed There's this really great catalog, Fire Mountain Gems, where you can buy a gross of nickel or brass-plated aglets for $6.00 . They're not fancily engraved like the bolo points you buy at craft stores--just plain. They also have those spacer beads in a variety of sizes and finishes. Drea On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Kent & Kat wrote: > > -Poster: Kent & Kat > > I've used the metal bolo tips to finish off laces that go > through large eyelets/grommets. However, when I was making > Kent's celtic nightmare doublet for Ren last year I wanted > something to tip the leather laces with that would fit > through small eyelets. Whilst shopping for beads for > another project I found some metal spacer beads that look > like small coils. These come in silver & gold. I found > that they fit perfectly through the small eyelets, hold on > well with a drop of superglue and make the outfit look > fantastic! So, another option...which reminds me...I need > to go get some more! > > Kat > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 10:14:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01735 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:14:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA17677; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:20:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA22620 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:22:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA22606 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:22:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA18737 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:13:35 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:13:32 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: aglets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > -Poster: aleed > > There's this really great catalog, Fire Mountain Gems, where you can buy a > gross of nickel or brass-plated aglets for $6.00 . They're not fancily > engraved like the bolo points you buy at craft stores--just plain. They > also have those spacer beads in a variety of sizes and finishes. > I've got their catalog and have been wanting to order some of these, but they have a $50 minimum, they said, or did you find a way to get around it? So far I've only been able to find about $10 worth of stuff I need, since their prices are so cheap. Sylvia R _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 10:21:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01815 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:21:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA18626; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:27:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA23942 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:28:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA23930 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:28:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from andrea (209-122-196-11.s11.tnt5.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.196.11]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA20884 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:28:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000401be4eda$34ba1540$0bc47ad1@andrea.gideon> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: garters Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:30:47 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" Are card-woven garters period for Elizabethan England? Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 10:26:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01849 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:26:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA19413; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:32:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA24806 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:34:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA24782 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:34:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA28843 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:37:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25563 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:35:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:35:30 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: aglets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed I just save up and do one buy a year...and I've had no trouble coming up with $50 of stuff to get. :) Bolo points, emerald & ruby seed beads, freshwater pearls, carnelian cabochons & settings, filigree enamel beads... Hmm...You know, I haven't bought anything for them for a few months now... Drea the soon-to-be-penniless again > they have a $50 minimum, they said, or did you find a way to get around > it? So far I've only been able to find about $10 worth of stuff I need, > since their prices are so cheap. > > Sylvia R > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 10:38:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01905 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:38:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA20926; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:44:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA26923 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:45:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA26910 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:45:37 -0700 (MST) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2GBRSCS; Tue, 02 Feb 1999 10:45:02 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:00:55 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: Posture - 18, 19 Centuries and now Message-ID: <19990202.093209.13374.24.seamstrix@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 14-17 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com I had a first hand and very graphic demonstration of this when I was doing RevWar re-enactment in the '70's. I was still new to historic costuming but I decided to use the riding habit pattern in Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion to make myself a new outfit. I enlarged the pattern and adjusted certain proportions to suit my shape, I thought I was doing a pretty good job. I got the thing made and tried it on (didn't have anyone around to help me fit it before hand, another lesson there!) and discovered to my chagrin that the shoulders of the habit were pulling my rather wide late 20th century shoulders back very uncomfortably. I had made them wide enough, I just hadn't realized at the time the amount of difference in the basic sihouette. So there I had a nice wool habit which I couldn't wear for more than about 30 minutes before it started cutting into my shoulder as I forgot and fell back into a modern stance. So I had a very good lesson on period stance and silhouette and all it cost me was a wool riding habit......sigh, it was really nice looking to........ Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 10:47:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01955 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:47:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA22208; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:53:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA28465 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:55:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from isomedia.com (root@watson.isomedia.com [207.149.221.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA28427 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:54:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from wingate (pm427.isomedia.com [207.149.222.186]) by isomedia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA11548 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:16:43 -0800 From: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: aglets Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:54:17 -0800 Message-ID: <000001be4ec4$4a645b00$bade95cf@wingate> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Wylie A. & Gail D. Smith" Do they have an online catalog? Can you post their phone number so I can order a paper one? Thanks, ~G > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of aleed > Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 7:17 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: aglets > > > > -Poster: aleed > > There's this really great catalog, Fire Mountain Gems, where you can buy a > gross of nickel or brass-plated aglets for $6.00 . They're not fancily > engraved like the bolo points you buy at craft stores--just plain. They > also have those spacer beads in a variety of sizes and finishes. > > Drea > > On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Kent & Kat wrote: > > > > > -Poster: Kent & Kat > > > > I've used the metal bolo tips to finish off laces that go > > through large eyelets/grommets. However, when I was making > > Kent's celtic nightmare doublet for Ren last year I wanted > > something to tip the leather laces with that would fit > > through small eyelets. Whilst shopping for beads for > > another project I found some metal spacer beads that look > > like small coils. These come in silver & gold. I found > > that they fit perfectly through the small eyelets, hold on > > well with a drop of superglue and make the outfit look > > fantastic! So, another option...which reminds me...I need > > to go get some more! > > > > Kat > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 11:04:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02059 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:04:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA25411; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:10:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA01343 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:11:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from dskfw1.funb.com (dskfw1.funb.com [168.175.254.61]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA01330 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:11:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by dskfw1.funb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA25005 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:11:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from clt-conn-02.funb.com(168.175.76.48) by dskfw1.funb.com via smap (V2.0) id xma024996; Tue, 2 Feb 99 11:10:55 -0500 Received: by clt-conn-02.capmark.funb.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1AGPST9M>; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:10:46 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Stapelton, Gregory" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: aglets Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:10:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Stapelton, Gregory" Fire Mountain Gems from their web site. (just ordered one myself) Gawain Request a FREE, 244 page, full color Catalog <<...>> Check out a list of Products offered through our Catalog 28195 Redwood Highway Cave Junction, Oregon 97523-9304 U.S.A. In the USA or Canada: Call Toll Free at (800) 423-2319, Fax us Toll Free at (800) 292-34-73 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 11:21:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02166 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:21:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA28680; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:27:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA04918 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:28:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA04837 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:28:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) id <01J79VGAKR6O00A2TB@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:29:34 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) with ESMTP id <01J79VE6MDFM00AX7N@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 02 Feb 1999 16:00:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.43); Tue, 02 Feb 1999 15:58:34 +0000 (GMT0BST) Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.43); Tue, 02 Feb 1999 15:58:22 +0000 (GMT0BST) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 15:58:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: H-COST: Decorative Aiglets (was: Glass Aglets) In-reply-to: <199902021516.IAA21429@indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <132AF341F9@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Teddy > - -Poster: Margo Anderson > Aglets were also used, almost always in pairs, as surface > decoration, rather than for a functional purpose. This would seem > to be the best way to use the glass ones, rather than letting them > swing around at the end of a ribbon point. If you look at the > picture in Arnold, you'll notice that one of them is broken. It's > easy to surmise why this is the only example. > > Margo In most of the paintings I've looked at, however, the decorative aiglets don't look like the points for the ends of laces, they look more like elongated decorative beads, in pairs. I have been searching for beads that look that shpe to use for this purpose and have found very few that are elongated enough to get the right look. There are quite a lot of oval (rather than round) beads out there but I haven't found any that are the more "round-ended-tube" shape shown in the paintings. Has anyone found any like this? With my luck, if there are any, they won't ba available in the uk.... Thanks Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 11:29:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02207 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:29:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA29985; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:35:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA06763 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:36:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from send204.yahoomail.com (send204.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.128]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id JAA06749 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:36:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990202163346.9092.rocketmail@send204.yahoomail.com> Received: from [194.168.181.49] by send204.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 02 Feb 1999 08:33:46 PST Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:33:46 -0800 (PST) From: Dora Barnes Subject: H-COST: Posture - 18, 19 Centuries and now To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dora Barnes RE Posture posts I agree with Sally, the 18 C did see women with a very different perceived posture - and the men too. I think it was also a class thing as well - the further up the scale the better posture you were expected to have. 18 and 19 century children had deportment as a school subject, so being very upright became the norm, and anything less was "unbecoming". Of course, if you wear tight stays with a long rigid busk your posture becomes non negotiable, although you *CAN* slouch a bit, but not much. Dora _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 11:42:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02279 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:42:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA02114; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:48:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA09388 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:49:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA09374 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:49:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from andrea (209-122-196-20.s20.tnt5.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.196.20]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA08439 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:49:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000101be4ee5$7c7e93a0$14c47ad1@andrea.gideon> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: Elizabethan tall hat Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:51:53 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" Anyone made one of these recently? I'm trying to make up a paper pattern from Elizabethan Costuming from Winter and Savoy and am having problems. It just seems to look like a cowboy hat. HELP! Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 11:47:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02306 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:47:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA03183; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:53:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA10418 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:54:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA10378 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:54:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA02646 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:57:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA26408 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:55:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:55:56 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: H-Costume Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan tall hat In-Reply-To: <000101be4ee5$7c7e93a0$14c47ad1@andrea.gideon> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed I've made a couple--one with a flat hat, and one with a round top made up of a bunch of sections. Are you looking for a good pattern, or trying to figure out how to make it? Drea On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Andrea Gideon wrote: > > -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > > Anyone made one of these recently? I'm trying to make up a paper pattern > from Elizabethan Costuming from Winter and Savoy and am having problems. It > just seems to look like a cowboy hat. HELP! > > Andrea > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 11:51:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02330 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:51:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA03872; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:57:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA11536 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:58:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA11244 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:57:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA02779 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:01:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA26438 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:59:17 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:59:16 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: H-Costume Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan tall hat In-Reply-To: <000101be4ee5$7c7e93a0$14c47ad1@andrea.gideon> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed >> one with a flat hat Um, that should be "flat top". And it's not even noon yet... Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 11:52:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02337 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:52:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA04067; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:58:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA11717 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:59:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA11698 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:59:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip100.denver22.co.pub-ip.psi.net [38.31.4.100]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA27758 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:59:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B73004.8982A451@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 10:04:08 -0700 From: Mary Denise Smith Organization: Costume & Dressmaker Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan tall hat References: <000101be4ee5$7c7e93a0$14c47ad1@andrea.gideon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mary Denise Smith If you have access to Patterns of Fashion 15550-1650, use that. Better proportions, and real pics to look at! Good luck! Mary Denise Smith _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 11:55:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02358 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:55:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA04610; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:00:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA12283 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:02:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA12238 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:02:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip100.denver22.co.pub-ip.psi.net [38.31.4.100]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA24318 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:02:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B73099.929782F@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 10:06:37 -0700 From: Mary Denise Smith Organization: Costume & Dressmaker Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan tall hat/typos References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mary Denise Smith > And I should have typed 1550! It's not only not noon yet, it is probably still Monday somewhere in the world! Mary Denise _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 12:08:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA02469 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:08:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA07372; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:13:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA14829 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:15:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA14812 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:15:12 -0700 (MST) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2GGVNAJ; Tue, 02 Feb 1999 12:14:31 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:02:10 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan tall hat Message-ID: <19990202.110211.13374.26.seamstrix@juno.com> References: <000101be4ee5$7c7e93a0$14c47ad1@andrea.gideon> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 10-16,18-33 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com I have found that they tell you to slant the front of the hat crown back too much, that's probably what's giving it the 'cowboyish' look. If you refer to period portraits, the crowns of Elizabethan hats are almost completely straight up and down. It looks a bit strange to our eyes, but if you want the right look you need to make the crown pretty much perpendicular to the brim. The brim should be relatively small in relation to the crown, we are used to wider brimmed hats, but once again the portraits show that the size of the brim relative to the crown was very small, sometimes barely there, that could be another reason for the 'cowboy' look. I find that a brim width of 1-1 1/2 inches is all that you need. Karen On Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:51:53 -0800 "Andrea Gideon" writes: > >-Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > >Anyone made one of these recently? I'm trying to make up a paper >pattern >from Elizabethan Costuming from Winter and Savoy and am having >problems. It >just seems to look like a cowboy hat. HELP! > >Andrea > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 12:17:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA02554 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:17:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA08920; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:23:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA16464 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:24:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA16418 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:24:20 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id MRCMa04329 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:23:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <538faabf.36b73488@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:23:20 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Posture - 18, 19 Centuries and now Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Dora, The higher the social class the higher the physical expectations. We reproduced 8 of Thomas Jefferson's garments for Monticello to use in their Visitor's Center (they wanted to preserve the originals without the damage from constant exhibition problems like light and weather). We tried to put the reproduction 1820's coat on a modern mannequin for a 3 dimensional look at our work. Couldn't find a modern one that worked due to the exaggerated posture. The back measurement from armsyce to armsyce was 21" and Mr. Jefferson was 6+ feet tall. It all came together when we saw a silhouette of him hanging in his study. He was trained well in shoulders back and down creating this long, broad chest. He never lost the posture as he was in his 70's wearing that coat. For an excellent example of modern posture vs. period posture, look at January 1999 selection in the costume calendar (www.sallyqueenassociates.com/January.html). That is a modern mannequin -- long arms, slender neck, modern head shape, squared up shoulders --- wearing an 1820's dress. The real issue: period mannequins cost big $$$$ and many museums do not have the resources to fund period shapes for each exhibit (or any exhibit). So , we get a somewhat modern interpretation of a period. When you win the lottery, give lots of $$$ for museum mannequins and costume exhibitions! Sally www.sallyqueenassociates.com Costume Calendar Series _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 12:18:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA02562 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:18:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA09216; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:24:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA16805 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:25:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA16764 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:25:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA03769 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:28:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA26784 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:26:43 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:26:42 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: H-Costume Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan tall hat In-Reply-To: <000101be4ee5$7c7e93a0$14c47ad1@andrea.gideon> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed I've made one with a flat hat, and one with a rounded top; are you looking for good patterns, or trying to figure out how to put it together, or both? Drea > > -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > > Anyone made one of these recently? I'm trying to make up a paper pattern > from Elizabethan Costuming from Winter and Savoy and am having problems. It > just seems to look like a cowboy hat. HELP! > > Andrea > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 12:45:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA02708 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:45:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA15182; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:51:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA21780 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:52:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA21745 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:52:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.6 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:51:44 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Posture - 18, 19 Centuries and now Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:55:18 -0500 Message-ID: <000401be4ed5$5b8e3700$bc17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <19990202163346.9092.rocketmail@send204.yahoomail.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Upper-class children were put into "stays" from the age of 2-4 on. On top of that, those whose posture wasn't turning out right were "boarded," i.e. a shaped board bound onto their backs for 3-4 hours per day or more. The deportment classes were also necessary to help them develop the appropriate gait, and graceful standing up and sitting down procedures to cope with the off-balance, externally imposed postures which resulted. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Dora Barnes Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 11:34 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Posture - 18, 19 Centuries and now -Poster: Dora Barnes RE Posture posts I agree with Sally, the 18 C did see women with a very different perceived posture - and the men too. I think it was also a class thing as well - the further up the scale the better posture you were expected to have. 18 and 19 century children had deportment as a school subject, so being very upright became the norm, and anything less was "unbecoming". Of course, if you wear tight stays with a long rigid busk your posture becomes non negotiable, although you *CAN* slouch a bit, but not much. Dora _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 13:15:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02915 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:15:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA22465; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:20:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA29011 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:22:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA28977 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:22:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.121 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:21:35 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: how to - cummerbund for "smallish" boy Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:24:57 -0500 Message-ID: <000701be4ed9$87eeda80$bc17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199902010318.UAA11817@indra.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" When I was small in the 1950's, cummerbunds on pre-schooler's clothes were fashionable, and I still remember the details. Generally, but not always, the lower edge of the cummerbund was permanently sewn onto the skirts, pants, or shorts. Then there were 4-6 self-fabric loops (a very narrow tube turned inside out) attached to the top inside of the cummerbund at front, sides, and back which slipped over buttons sewn onto the blouse or shirt in strategic locations above the waist line. These helped hold the cummerbund up in place, but more importantly, kept it from rotating around the waist in an unattractive way. The sides of the cummerbund and the place where the cummerbund opened were sometimes boned with short pieces of padded flat boning to help it stay up too. I had a number of outfits along these lines and I remember needing instruction and assistance to get into them, but they were not the least bit uncomfortable. There was no elastic in them at all, and they were not tight around the waist---they just looked that way. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sidne Kneeland Sent: Sunday, January 31, 1999 10:19 PM To: Historic Costume List Subject: H-COST: how to - cummerbund for "smallish" boy -Poster: Sidne Kneeland Greetings list, I need to make a cummerbund for a very active 4-1/2 yo boy, black fabric. Yes, I have the poor child in a dance class, tap. They are having a program later this spring. Yes, he is VERY active, stress on the VERY part. Just so we stay on historic topic, does anybody know about the origins of the cummerbund? Time frame and location of origin? dictionary says Hindi. ? Thanks, Sidne ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 13:21:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02961 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:21:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA23779; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:26:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA00572 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:28:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA00551 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:28:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.49 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:27:35 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: how to - cummerbund for "smallish" boy Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:30:20 -0500 Message-ID: <000801be4eda$5e34aca0$bc17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199902010318.UAA11817@indra.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Oh, and I should add that the shirt or blouse also buttoned onto the pants or skirt at the waistline in 4-6 locations, so that when the child squirms, the buttons holding up the cummerbund (not in a reinforced area of the bodice) are not subjected to undue stresses. It also has the effect of holding the shirt tucked in. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sidne Kneeland Sent: Sunday, January 31, 1999 10:19 PM To: Historic Costume List Subject: H-COST: how to - cummerbund for "smallish" boy -Poster: Sidne Kneeland Greetings list, I need to make a cummerbund for a very active 4-1/2 yo boy, black fabric. Yes, I have the poor child in a dance class, tap. They are having a program later this spring. Yes, he is VERY active, stress on the VERY part. Just so we stay on historic topic, does anybody know about the origins of the cummerbund? Time frame and location of origin? dictionary says Hindi. ? Thanks, Sidne ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 13:24:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02991 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:24:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA24320; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:29:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA01033 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:31:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mi.engin.umich.edu (root@mi.engin.umich.edu [141.212.106.41]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA01022 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:31:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (parsla@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mi.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA21045 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:31:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:31:03 -0500 (EST) From: Parsla Liepa To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: 100% PU? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Parsla Liepa I've acquired a new umbrella, red crushed velvet. It's a lovely thing, and people always seem surprised that it works. ("Why doesn't the water leak through?") There are two tags inside, one saying it is 100% rayon, the other says "100% PU, Made in China". Any idea what the PU means? Parsla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 13:28:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA03047 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:28:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA25149; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:33:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA01729 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:35:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhost.cyberramp.net (root@mailhost.cyberramp.net [207.158.64.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA01719 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:35:04 -0700 (MST) From: kang@cyberramp.net Received: from hemmert (ftw-tsa6-41.cyberramp.net [207.158.119.105]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-19990112-0936) with SMTP id MAA01773 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:35:00 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36B74515.4CEB@cyberramp.net> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 12:33:57 -0600 Organization: L.D. Fox Military Antiques X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 100% PU? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kang@cyberramp.net Parsla Liepa wrote: > > -Poster: Parsla Liepa > > I've acquired a new umbrella, red crushed velvet. It's a lovely thing, > and people always seem surprised that it works. ("Why doesn't the water > leak through?") There are two tags inside, one saying it is 100% rayon, > the other says "100% PU, Made in China". Any idea what the PU means? > > Parsla > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Maybe it's 100% PolyUrethane? (That's a type of synthetic cloth...) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 14:35:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03449 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:35:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA05482; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:41:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA13565 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:43:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA13543 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:42:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from andrea (209-122-214-38.s292.tnt3.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.214.38]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id OAA12558 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:42:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000a01be4efd$b2e691a0$26d67ad1@andrea.gideon> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan tall hat Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:45:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" . The brim should be relatively small in >relation to the crown, we are used to wider brimmed hats, but once again >the portraits show that the size of the brim relative to the crown was >very small, sometimes barely there, that could be another reason for the >'cowboy' look. I find that a brim width of 1-1 1/2 inches is all that you >need. > > >Karen This could be my problem. Ny instructions say to start with a brim of 4 inches, then fiddle with it until you like it. I've been triming it by 1/2 inches, but now i'll cut a lot more off. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 14:39:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03466 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:39:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA06000; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:45:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA14211 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:47:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA14193 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:46:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from andrea (209-122-214-38.s292.tnt3.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.214.38]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id OAA16370 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:46:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002501be4efe$458a3de0$26d67ad1@andrea.gideon> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan tall hat Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:49:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > >I've made a couple--one with a flat hat, and one with a round top made up >of a bunch of sections. Are you looking for a good pattern, or trying to >figure out how to make it? > >Drea > I have instructions, but a paper pattern would be nice. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 14:55:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03567 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:55:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA08083; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:01:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA16869 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:02:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from dskfw2.funb.com (dskfw2.funb.com [168.175.254.62]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA16856 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:02:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by dskfw2.funb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA21465 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:02:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from clt-conn-02.funb.com(168.175.76.48) by dskfw2.funb.com via smap (V2.0) id xma021443; Tue, 2 Feb 99 15:02:06 -0500 Received: by clt-conn-02.capmark.funb.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1FPAPRDX>; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:01:56 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Stapelton, Gregory" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: CostumeCon Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:01:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Stapelton, Gregory" Heck, mail the list, I want to know anything about this as well, please. Gawain > I also heard that there is something like a reenactment fair taking > place each year in the > UK. > There one can get nearly everything dealing with reenactment (also > costumes) from all kind of periods. > If anybody has got info about that, please mail me privately, thanks! > > Many greetings, > Diana > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 15:11:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03658 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:11:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA10136; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:15:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA19391 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:17:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from x15.engin.umich.edu (root@x15.engin.umich.edu [141.212.198.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA19375 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:17:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (parsla@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by x15.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA12485 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:17:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:17:13 -0500 (EST) From: Parsla Liepa To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 100% PU? In-Reply-To: <36B74515.4CEB@cyberramp.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Parsla Liepa > > I've acquired a new umbrella, red crushed velvet. It's a lovely thing, > > and people always seem surprised that it works. ("Why doesn't the water > > leak through?") There are two tags inside, one saying it is 100% rayon, > > the other says "100% PU, Made in China". Any idea what the PU means? > > Maybe it's 100% PolyUrethane? (That's a type of synthetic cloth...) That was my first thought, too, but then why the tag proclaiming it as rayon? Unless it's been waterproofed with polyurethane, but it certainly doesn't feel like it. Parsla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 15:27:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03743 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:27:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA11880; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:26:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA21192 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:28:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA21098 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:27:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from 38.29.61.156 (ip34.phoenix8.az.pub-ip.psi.net [38.29.61.34]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA09024 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:27:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B6FD72.3487@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 13:28:18 +0000 From: "S.B. McDaniel" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0-C-AICK1-2 (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Embroidered Brooches? References: <199902021724.KAA16483@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "S.B. McDaniel" Just finished a cloak for a friend, and needed a quick closure. He didn't want ties, so I took an embroidered roundel I had stitched for another project, backed it with buckram and felt, and sewed it to a crafts store pinback. It looks VERY nice, but I'm now wondering if this was actually done in medieval/Renn europe. I am familiar with embroidered buttons, etc., but haven't come across embroidered brooches. Anybody? Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 15:47:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03871 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:47:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA16357; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:52:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA26079 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:54:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA26065 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:54:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from andrea (209-122-220-21.s275.tnt5.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.220.21]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id PAA22266 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:54:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000401be4f07$adf2f9e0$15dc7ad1@andrea.gideon> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan tall hat Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:56:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" How tall should the side be? I've cut the brim down and it looks better, but still not right. At this moment the sides are about 5 inches, down from the 6 inches that the instructions state. Andrea >-Poster: seamstrix@juno.com > >I have found that they tell you to slant the front of the hat crown back >too much, that's probably what's giving it the 'cowboyish' look. If you >refer to period portraits, the crowns of Elizabethan hats are almost >completely straight up and down. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 15:52:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03916 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:52:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA17242; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:57:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA27027 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:59:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (tor-smtp1.netcom.ca [207.181.101.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA27013 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:59:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (trt-on23-07.netcom.ca [207.181.99.71]) by tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA05576 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:58:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002e01be4eef$9658b9e0$4763b5cf@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Favourite Costumes Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:03:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" >This is just a question out of personal interest: > >What are your favourite costumes or periods in historical dress? >If you have a favourite period, do you have a special need for the costumes, e.g. some certain period >reenactment? I am personally enamoured of women's Italian Renaissance dress, especially the earlier periods when the shape was purer and less ornate/slashed. When I first started researching, I decided that the silhouette of Italian Ren was the best for my "Rubenesque" figure. No corsetting, flowing skirt, beautiful colours. I also love the fact that I can get a pretty period look by buying silk sarees for reasonable prices in Little India (east end, Toronto). One saree can do a whole dress, bodice and all. I have two gorgeous dark red wedding silk sarees that I am holding on to like a dowry for inspiration to strike. Can't seem to get excited about the men's Italian Ren though - unless it's in funereal black, which makes it more Spanish and High Renaissance. My husband looks amazing in Elizabethan. Actually, anything in a doublet and slops looks fabulous on him. He's tall and slim, with great legs (if I could only get him to wear hosen more often). We just made him a lovely cream and maroon/dark blue striped brocade doublet and pluderhosen, lined with linen, for 12th Night. I still have to sew on the garnets and pearls, though (can you tell I love this man?!?). We use the costumes in the SCA. Eve Harris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 16:23:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA04131 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:23:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA22503; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:28:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA03342 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:29:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.worldaccessnet.com (sU/MUa+RwPZHnoycj2gYl2Op8KLBwnkR@worldaccessnet.com [206.190.139.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id OAA03332 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:29:33 -0700 (MST) Received: by vortex.worldaccessnet.com id m107nNt-000dT6C; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:29:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail3.2.0.91#4) Received: from max2-31.worldaccessnet.com(209.17.80.161), claiming to be "worldaccessnet.com" via SMTP by worldaccessnet.com, id smtpdAAAa003Hv; Tue Feb 2 13:29:17 1999 Message-ID: <36B75FC6.51399F69@worldaccessnet.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 12:27:50 -0800 From: Sidne Kneeland X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: how to - cummerbund for "smallish" boy References: <000701be4ed9$87eeda80$bc17ffd0@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sidne Kneeland Greetings, Well, I think the loops to fasten to the pants or shirt are a good idea. But, I need a step backwards from there. Is the cummerbund a tube that is gathered and ordinarily hooks and eyes in the back or what? My husband does a suit but nothing more. Thanks, Sidne Hope H. Dunlap wrote: > -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > When I was small in the 1950's, cummerbunds on > pre-schooler's clothes were fashionable, and I still > remember the details. Generally, but not always, the lower > edge of the cummerbund was permanently sewn onto the skirts, > pants, or shorts. Then there were 4-6 self-fabric loops (a > very narrow tube turned inside out) attached to the top > inside of the cummerbund at front, sides, and back which > slipped over buttons sewn onto the blouse or shirt in > strategic locations above the waist line. These helped hold > the cummerbund up in place, but more importantly, kept it > from rotating around the waist in an unattractive way. The > sides of the cummerbund and the place where the cummerbund > opened were sometimes boned with short pieces of padded flat > boning to help it stay up too. (snip....) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 16:42:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA04246 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:42:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA26438; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:48:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA07104 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:49:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from dub-img-10.compuserve.com (dub-img-10.compuserve.com [149.174.206.140]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA07058 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:49:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-10.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id QAA11388; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:48:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:47:08 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Clogs in England & History-PLEASE NOTE To: LIST historic costume Cc: LIST SCA arts Message-ID: <199902021647_MC2-68F2-EE02@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id QAA04246 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson Just a warning to anyone ordering these clogs from England (as in the details I gave) I got a shipment today of an order I placed in Continental sizes (common here in the UK) and they sent the wrong British sizes, so if you send your American Shoe size it will most likely arrive incorect , I suggest you convert to British sizes 1st. Teva sports sandles used to have a chart on their web site, not checked but it might be worth a look. Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 16:55:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA04322 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:55:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA28416; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:00:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA07803 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:53:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA07767 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:53:39 -0700 (MST) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2GYTEBH; Tue, 02 Feb 1999 16:52:55 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:36:24 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: Favourite Costumes Message-ID: <19990202.153931.13374.29.seamstrix@juno.com> References: <36B1BE7A.9075C112@ndh.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 11-47 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com Hehehe, favorite period of history? The answer is 'Yes'. I find myself drawn particularly to Dark Ages Britain, Feudal Japan, late 13th and early 14th century Northern Europe, Elizabethan England, and Colonial America. So far the only one of these I don't have an outfit from is Japan, and I've got one of those on the runway waiting to take off. My main problem with doing Japan is that I look nothing like anyone Japanese. I am the poster child for Northern Europe, and I just can't stand the incongruity of my coloring and features with traditional Japanese clothing. I'm going to get around it by doing the outfit as a Japanese fox spirit with a long black wig, heavy kabuki makeup, and my blue eyes will work because one of the indicators of the supernatural in traditional Japanese stories is creatures with blue eyes! Karen On Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:58:19 +0100 Andrea Clef writes: > >-Poster: Andrea Clef > >Hello everybody! > >This is just a question out of personal interest: > >What are your favourite costumes or periods in historical dress? >If you have a favourite period, do you have a special need for the >costumes, e.g. >some certain period reenactment? > >I would also be glad if those of you who have an own costume business, >could tell me >in which costumes or periods they specialize and if such a thing >exists, >give me the adress of their homepages? >Please, mail that privately to me as I believe this is off topic for >the >list. > >Thanks, >Diana > >a.clef@ndh.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 16:59:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA04345 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:59:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA28327; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:59:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA07790 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:53:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from m23.boston.juno.com (m23.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.188]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA07736 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:53:32 -0700 (MST) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m23.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2GYTD6U; Tue, 02 Feb 1999 16:52:55 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:18:31 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan tall hat Message-ID: <19990202.153931.13374.27.seamstrix@juno.com> References: <000401be4f07$adf2f9e0$15dc7ad1@andrea.gideon> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 6-11,13-24 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com I checked the first tall hat that I made and the sides are about 5 inches, but I have made several since with higher crowns which I think have better period lines. The trick is to make the crown the same height all the way around instead of giving it that pronounced bump on the lower edge of the front that Winter and Schultz tell you to do. I have reduced that bump down to a very slight, shallow curve and I think that it looks better that way. Karen On Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:56:40 -0800 "Andrea Gideon" writes: > >-Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > > >How tall should the side be? I've cut the brim down and it looks >better, >but still not right. At this moment the sides are about 5 inches, >down from >the 6 inches that the instructions state. >Andrea >>-Poster: seamstrix@juno.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 16:59:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA04352 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:59:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA29174; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:04:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA10059 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:06:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from hil-img-4.compuserve.com (hil-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.177.134]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA09903 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:05:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by hil-img-4.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id RAA05448 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:04:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:04:30 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: 100% PU? To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199902021704_MC2-68FC-AEE9@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id QAA04352 Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson > I've acquired a new umbrella, red crushed velvet. It's a lovely thing, > and people always seem surprised that it works. ("Why doesn't the water > leak through?") There are two tags inside, one saying it is 100% rayon, > the other says "100% PU, Made in China". Any idea what the PU means? > Maybe it's 100% PolyUrethane? (That's a type of synthetic cloth...) Yes 100% Polyurethane, but not cloth, 100% Rayon (the fabric), knife coated with 100% PU to make it waterproof is my guess. PU is a type of plastic that can be made into cloth, but is more often used as a coating/backing agent. Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 17:02:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA04389 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:02:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA29651; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:07:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA10472 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:09:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA10459 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip141.denver22.co.pub-ip.psi.net [38.31.4.141]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA09662 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:08:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B77888.EC4A54B8@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 15:13:30 -0700 From: Mary Denise Smith Organization: Costume & Dressmaker Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Reenactor's Fair in UK References: <36B1B697.E982C474@ndh.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mary Denise Smith There is a Reenactors' Fair coming up March 12,13 & 14 at Blackbird Leys in Oxford England. Inexpensive door charge (50P?). Many, many goodies inside. There are others, but I don't have all the data with me. Hope this helps, Mary Denise Smith _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 17:12:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA04494 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:12:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA01476; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:18:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA12281 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:19:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA12269 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:19:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA32538 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:20:16 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:20:15 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 100% PU? In-Reply-To: <199902021704_MC2-68FC-AEE9@compuserve.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> So what does "knife coated" mean? I'm assuming some sort of very thin application, am I right? Emma > -Poster: Melanie Wilson > > Yes 100% Polyurethane, but not cloth, 100% Rayon (the fabric), knife coated > with 100% PU to make it waterproof is my guess. PU is a type of plastic > that can be made into cloth, but is more often used as a coating/backing > agent. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 17:48:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA04777 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:48:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA07239; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:53:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA18693 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:55:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp0-alterdial.uu.net (smtp0-alterdial.UU.NET [192.48.96.28]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA18682 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:55:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from jwilbur1 by smtp0-alterdial.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: 119.pcpool89.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.89.119]) id QQgawp23887; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:55:32 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:00:15 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Favourite Costumes CC: h-costume@indra.com Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19990202.153931.13374.29.seamstrix@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" > > -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com > > Hehehe, favorite period of history? The answer is 'Yes'. Good answer! Mine is the same. I am intrigued by Byzantine dress, Saxon, 14th c., Russian (all periods), Tudor, Italian Renn, etc. etc. ad nauseum! Oh, can't forget ancient civilizations such as Greece and Egypt. I will admit that my interest tapers off after the 16th century, though my appreciation for later periods has been heightened by reading this list. I'm not really interested in Far Eastern clothing either, but I don't know very much about it and haven't had much exposure to it. Now, I haven't actually made costumes from all these time periods and cultures yet. But I have done a lot of research on most of them, and my main problem is that I can't do them all at once! =) I play in the SCA so fortunately I have a place to wear all (okay, most) of the costumes I love. I really like having a wide range of time and cultures to research and play with. --Jessica (SCA Muireann/SIG Smirenka) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 17:59:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA04878 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:59:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA09550; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:04:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA20505 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:06:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA20472; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:06:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA15017; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:36:01 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA17378; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:36:00 +1030 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:35:59 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Costume Con and rust stains In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990202004525.00cf8188@binary.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: > > -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger > > Rust Stains: > > >- -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > >By the way, rust will come out with a product called The > >Rust Gun. The bottle doesn't say what the > >active ingredient is, but it claims it doesn't cause fabric > >detrioration. > > I don't know about Rust Gun, but oxalic acid neutralizes rust - reacts with > the iron oxide to give a colorless compound. It's the active ingredient in > Zud cleanser. I have used a solution of Zud to remove small rust spots in > fabric, with decent results. No scrubbing, just sponging, and a good > rinse. Note: some red/yellow/brown dyes get their color from iron oxide - > these colors will fade with a rust remover. Test first. Rhubarb has oxalic acid in it....also a plant that grows here called 'soursob'. It's reasonably poisonous when ingested..... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 19:18:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05411 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:18:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA20890; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:23:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA04215 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:24:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA04197 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:24:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2G9GLF3; Tue, 02 Feb 1999 19:24:18 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Posture - 18, 19 Centuries and now Message-ID: <19980920.182747.5351.4.kayherb@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-11 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 19:24:18 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" >-Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com >Personally, though, I prefer the body shaping of the 18th century to 3 >hours a >day in a gym but that is another topic altogether! And stays are a lot more comfortable than those three hours! Kay Herb kayherb@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 19:18:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05415 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:18:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA20818; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:22:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA04195 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:24:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA04180 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:24:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2G9GK2S; Tue, 02 Feb 1999 19:24:17 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Waterproofing Tents (was z'out, etc.) Message-ID: <19980920.182746.5351.2.kayherb@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-7 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 19:24:17 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" Thanks for the tip on k-cote. I'd never heard of it. Does it have an obvious presence (I'm thinking along the lines of caulk) or is it a thin liquid like the Thompson's? Kay Herb kayherb@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 19:18:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05419 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:18:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA20956; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:23:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA04291 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:24:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA04223 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:24:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2G9GLRJ; Tue, 02 Feb 1999 19:24:18 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Posture - 18, 19 Centuries and now Message-ID: <19980920.182747.5351.6.kayherb@juno.com> References: <19990202163346.9092.rocketmail@send204.yahoomail.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,12-13,15-18 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 19:24:18 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" On armholes cutting in: Oh, yes. I vividly remember being gifted with a gorgeous 18c repro jacket (boned up the front, so does that make it a juste?). The neckline being necessarily wide and the shoulders therefore more of a strap width, I thought it was fit improperly because, even with stays on, it had an ugly deep fold just below my collar bones. Somewhere along the line I commented on it to the giver, who simply said, "Stand up straight!" Guess what -- no folds, no cutting! That's when I realized the difference in basic carriage of the 18c versus the 20c. And standing up quite straight (and sitting, stooping down, etc.) just feels so much better!!!! And Sally, thanks for the insights into the proportions. It cleared up some questions I didn't even know I had! Kay Herb kayherb@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 19:19:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05434 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:19:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA20948; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:23:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA04290 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:24:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA04213 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:24:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2G9GLPB; Tue, 02 Feb 1999 19:24:18 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Calashes - How to Line Message-ID: <19980920.182747.5351.5.kayherb@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-3,9-10,12-17 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 19:24:18 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" Pardon me if this has been addressed before -- I just signed on to this list. I've made unlined calashes, and want to make a lined one. My question concerns how the lining was accomplished. The repros I've seen appear to have the lining and outer fabric laid wrong sides together, then the channels stitched with the fabrics together and the reeds run through the double thickness. I've only seen one extant calash, but that was unlined. Should the cape be lined, too? And is ruching around the front edge (backed with the lining material) for real? Thanks to anyone who can help out! Kay Herb kayherb@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 19:48:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05581 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:48:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA25097; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:53:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA08800 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:55:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA08789 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:55:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p35.directcon.net [206.170.184.84]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA25338 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:49:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:49:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902030049.QAA25338@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan tall hat Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 11:51 AM 2/2/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > >Anyone made one of these recently? I'm trying to make up a paper pattern >from Elizabethan Costuming from Winter and Savoy and am having problems. It >just seems to look like a cowboy hat. HELP! I've made a number of them. Sometimes the cowboy effect is due to the brim being too wide. I keep my brims no wider than 2 1/2". Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 20:57:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA06017 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:57:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA05124; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:03:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA18100 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:05:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id TAA18085 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:05:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 23531 invoked from network); 3 Feb 1999 02:07:59 -0000 Received: from tntmodem1-48.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.133.48) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 1999 02:07:59 -0000 Message-ID: <36B7D3C2.BDA@mc.net> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 20:42:43 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Bead fringe suggestions References: <199902020552.WAA15345@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Actually, Ioana, it might not be that hard to make the fringe... You can order prestrung beads in bulk (they come in "hanks" and I think groups of hanks, and the company below will sell them at almost distributor prices in the bulk you'd need them) Then restring them onto strong but thin *beading* thread (not sewing or fishline!) Use fairly large holed beads, and there is a *wonderful* beading needle out there, called The Big Eye, that's literally *all eye*, (can you say "easy to thread" kiddies?) and very thin. If you want to explore that, email me offline and I'll fool around to see if I can't come up with a shortcut or two. (If necessity is the mother of invention, *laziness* is at least its nanny!) You can get tons of beads at good prices from Shipwreck Beads (this is The Source in "beadland"! http://www.shipwreck.com/ In fact, for the fringe itself, maybe you'll find someone on Beadnet, not to mention all kinds of links, related resources, advice, how-to's etc. ad infinitum...: http://www.mcs.net/~simone/beadnet.html Oh, hey... (that spot on the front of my forehead gets a little flatter) Try the bellydance/ Middle Eastern links pages -- they have costume suppliers all over the place... http://www.bdancer.com/ http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=bellydance;list http://www.mindspring.com/~whill/ http://www.shira.net/links.htm Heather Law/SCA Sister Ed lynnx@mc.net > - -Poster: Ioana Timariu > Hello! > > I'm trying to create a belly-dancing costume. I'm looking for a > provider > of beaded fringe. I'd love to manually make the fringe, but I have > a deadline for the costume .. I have to dance in it in April!)... > Most providers I found on the internet ask for 40 (3 inch width) to 60$ > 4 inch width) per yard. Is this a reasonable price? > > I live in Toronto, Ontario, but any reasonably-priced provider > from anywhere in the world would do. > > Thank you very much! > - -ioana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 21:05:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06089 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:05:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA06618; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:11:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA19410 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:13:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.mindspring.com (smtp1.mindspring.com [207.69.200.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA19263 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:13:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (user-37ka9vq.dialup.mindspring.com [207.69.39.250]) by smtp1.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA21060; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:13:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009c01be4f1a$b2a2a4a0$ee2445cf@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: , Subject: H-COST: a recent post to h-costume that I saved - just for you, it seems.... Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:08:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Megan McHugh" While their WebPages offer no patterns, this is a custom maker of several historical styles of Scots jackets, including the Sheriffmuir kilt jacket. The WebPages include front and back views of their products. The pictures are awesome, as are all of their handmade products and accessories. You might inquire about the availability of a pattern to your measurements at Tartan Web Ratchill, Broughton, Peeblesshire, Scotland ML12 6HH Telephone: +44 (0) 1899 830 239 Fax: +44 (0) 1899 830 461 email: enquiries@tartanweb.co.uk Their jacket WebPages are available at http://www.scottish-selection.com/tweb/jackets.htm. Made up, the Sheriffmuir is one of their more expensive jackets at $457. Note that if you want it to close in front, it's called something else, and they have that too. They have less expensive jacket styles. In any event, I can't offer any help with the pattern other than referring you to Amazon Drygoods catalog available at 1-800-798-7979. They have a number of riding coats, cadet coats, and frock coat patterns, which you could modify with the Sheriffmuir style jacket skirts of your own devising. Or, if you prefer, try the pattern generating engine at http://www.panix.com/~aqn/tailoring/drafting/index.html, and follow the directions to enter the site for body and sleeve (again, you'll have to develop your own skirts).This site also has two terrific old-fashioned men's vest patterns on it which it will custom- generate a pattern to your measurements. http://www.piobmhor.com/doublet.html is another Scots company with bagpiper's gear for sale, including a variety of sleeved and sleeveless doublets, very similar to the Sheriffmuir to give you some alternatives. They offer regalia for any jacket you make yourself, the braids, trims and other trim which will give it that authentic touch at http://www.piobmhor.com/regalia.html. The shirt varies by the century you are trying to portray, but prior to the mid- to late- 19th Century, something of simple rectangles will be appropriate. The jabot is about 5-7 feet long, six-eight inches wide after hemming, lace at ends optional. It is separate from the shirt. The shirt may have ruffles or not, your choice. They are sewn onto each side of the neck opening. This company above also sells shirts and jabots, too. The Kirke's Lambs Uniforms website at http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/1663/kirkes_uniform.html has a good shirt and jabot pattern (they call the jabot a cravat, but it's virtually the same thing.) The shirt pattern at http://http://ares.redsword.com/dduperault/shirt.htm has good measuring info and directions, but gather your shirt all in at the neck, not across the top of the shoulders. If you want a true collar, which isn't necessary if you wear a jabot, add about 3" to the width of the collar pieces on this site and make it up the same way. Not quite what you asked for, but I hope this helps. . . . Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sterling Ranne Sent: Friday, January 08, 1999 11:20 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: WTD: Kilt jacket pattern. -Poster: "Sterling Ranne" I'm looking for a pattern for a Sheriffmuir kilt jacket. Also looking for a pattern for the jabot shirt that is worn with it. I can find the Prince Charlie jacket but much prefer the looks of the Sheriffmuir. Any help finding patterns greatly appreciated. Sterling 92.5% Pure sranne@hydroseal.com ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 21:23:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06174 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:23:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA09313; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:27:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA21831 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:29:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA21824 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:29:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.129] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 107s4U-0003Pm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:29:43 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:30:24 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Waterproofing Tents (was z'out, etc.) In-Reply-To: <19980920.172252.5351.12.kayherb@juno.com> References: <199902020553.VAA24662@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 07:46 AM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" Next time try Thompson's water seal. Just one question for Kay or anyone else who happens to know--Is Thompson's WS flameable? Thanx! Carol J. Bell Cannon _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 21:37:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06247 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:37:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA11767; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:42:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA23692 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:44:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA23671 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:44:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.129] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 107sIy-0004JB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:44:40 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:45:22 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: aglets In-Reply-To: References: <36B7123F.E3D5A4DA@nash.tds.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" On 990202, Drea wrote: There's this really great catalog, Fire Mountain Gems, ... Drea, would you please post the address or url for those of us who may be interested. Thank you! Carol J. Bell Cannon / Gra/inne ingen Domnaill Ilda/naig _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 21:44:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06281 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:44:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA12965; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:50:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA24585 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:52:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA24565 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:52:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-101-54.s277.tnt2.rcm.erols.com [207.172.101.54]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA17503 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:52:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <008001be4f20$48d63c20$3665accf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Favourite Costumes Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:52:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" Diana, This was all covered in last year's directory for the list. Maybe, this summer I'll have time to put together another directory. I'll have to see things go. Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com >Hello everybody! > >This is just a question out of personal interest: > >What are your favourite costumes or periods in historical dress? >If you have a favourite period, do you have a special need for the >costumes, e.g. >some certain period reenactment? > >I would also be glad if those of you who have an own costume business, >could tell me >in which costumes or periods they specialize and if such a thing exists, >give me the adress of their homepages? >Please, mail that privately to me as I believe this is off topic for the >list. > >Thanks, >Diana > >a.clef@ndh.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 22:34:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06537 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:34:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA19033; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:39:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA00627 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:41:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA00621 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:41:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.129] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 107tBx-0007n3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:41:30 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 19:42:11 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Clogs in England & History-PLEASE NOTE In-Reply-To: <199902021647_MC2-68F2-EE02@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 04:47 PM 2/2/99, Melanie Wilson wrote: Just a warning to anyone ordering these clogs from England (as in the details I gave) I got a shipment today of an order I placed in Continental sizes (common here in the UK) and they sent the wrong British sizes, so if you send your American Shoe size it will most likely arrive incorect , I suggest you convert to British sizes 1st. Thanks for the hint, Mel. I would add, you can always have someone trace around your foot, too. It's cruder, but has worked for me in the past. Carol [cjc] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 2 23:05:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA06708 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:05:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA23073; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:11:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA04142 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:13:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA04131 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:13:18 -0700 (MST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 7DODa01221 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:10:10 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <6359455d.36b7cc22@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:10:10 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: C.9th Dutch costume Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com << Hello, Can anyone please help this gentleman with an URL or book? It's somewhat out of my area of expertise! TIA I have some information on Merovingian costume if he'd like to email me directly. Nancy snspies@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 00:20:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA07861 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:20:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA01799; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:26:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA12055 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:28:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id WAA12049 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 14442 invoked from network); 3 Feb 1999 05:31:04 -0000 Received: from tntmodem1-156.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.133.156) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 1999 05:31:04 -0000 Message-ID: <36B80352.570F@mc.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 00:05:38 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sewinghistoric@onelist.com CC: h-costume-digest@indra.com, sca-garb@coollist.com Subject: H-COST: When silk was Gold References: <918038916.5042@onelist.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law I've just gotten my copy of Edward R Hamilton's Bargain Books, and this book, subtitled Central Asian and Chinese Textiles, sounds fascinating. It's 29.95. not bad for a hardback (No, I don't work for them) There are frequently bargain costuming, sewing and needlework books available. Carol Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 01:09:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA08303 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:09:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA06622; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:14:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA15700 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:16:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from hil-img-3.compuserve.com (hil-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.177.133]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA15687 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:16:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hil-img-3.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id BAA27509 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:16:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:15:13 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: !00% PU To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199902030116_MC2-68FF-8A36@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id BAA08303 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson >So what does "knife coated" mean? I'm assuming some sort of very thin application, am I right? Yes a thin layer applied hot the excess being scapped off with a knife. Newer methods are by membrane of PU applied to the fabric, look on waterproofs etc for examples Many use a PU membrane, unless of course you get into the high end Gortex type application, which has pores in the membrane to let persperation out but keep rain out, which works fine until you add mud or dirt to the equation ! Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 03:45:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA14852 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:45:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA16096; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:50:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA24566 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:52:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA24559 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:52:30 -0700 (MST) From: Tsrra@aol.com Received: from Tsrra@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ECGMa01440 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:51:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:51:44 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Leaving for a while Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Tsrra@aol.com I have to go on location, so I'm signing off for a while. I'll miss you all. Where I'm going there's no computers, no e-mail, and no fun. They do say it's a living. Be back sometime, TS Ohara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 04:37:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA15111 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 04:37:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA20362; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 02:42:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA28065 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 02:44:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA28060 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 02:44:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-207-105-202-48.irvn11.pacbell.net [207.105.202.48]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id BAA24570 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:38:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B7AB75.FF5EF259@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 01:51:00 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: aglets References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, Gawain wrote: > Fire Mountain Gems from their web site. (just ordered one myself) > > Request a FREE, 244 page, full color Catalog <<...>> > Check out a list of Products offered through our Catalog > > 28195 Redwood Highway Cave Junction, Oregon 97523-9304 U.S.A. > In the USA or Canada: Call Toll Free at (800) 423-2319, > Fax us Toll Free at (800) 292-34-73 And Carol asked: >> Drea, would you please post the address or url for those of us who >> may be interested. Thank you! Out of curiosity, I did a quick search. Just bookmarked for now and I'll go back when I have time. Try: http://firemtn.com/ Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 04:43:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA15141 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 04:43:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA20682; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 02:48:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA28295 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 02:50:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA28288 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 02:50:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) id <01J7AWPHNP9C00A9QI@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:52:48 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) with ESMTP id <01J7AWOVSQ6O008TOZ@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 03 Feb 1999 09:48:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.43); Wed, 03 Feb 1999 09:46:14 +0000 (GMT0BST) Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.43); Wed, 03 Feb 1999 09:45:50 +0000 (GMT0BST) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 09:45:46 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: H-COST: UK Renactor's Markets (was Costume Con) In-reply-to: <199902022059.NAA27046@indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <24F6DC638F@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Teddy Hi Diana and others > I also heard that there is something like a reenactment fair taking > place each year in the UK. There one can get nearly everything > dealing with reenactment (also costumes) from all kind of periods. > If anybody has got info about that, please mail me privately, > thanks! In addition to the twice yearly Blackbird Leys market that has already been mentioned, there is a newer event. The Templers Faire at Cressing Temple near Stanstead in Essex on the 8th/9th May. Market, with some entertainment and living/interactive history stuff too. A fun event where people attending in costume are welcome (and get in cheaper) and there is camping available. I've not been myself, but people in one of the groups I play in had a traders stall at the first one (last year0 and said they preferred it to the Blackbird Leys event. I also have details of and English Heritage *Medieval* Faire at Battle Abbey near Hastings in ...erm... East Sussex I think (geography was never a strong point of mine!). 26th/27th June. Possibility of some camping space being available (according to the events list I'm looking at) September 4th/5th. Multi-period market with Medieval event at Groombridge Place near Tunbridge Wells in Kent. Contact Dawn Wood on (0181) 977 9160 for details. I don't have the date for the Autumn Blackbird Leys market yet. If I do get details, I'll try and remember to send them to the list Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 05:02:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA15245 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 05:02:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA21214; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:07:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA29234 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:09:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA29229 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:09:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) id <01J7AXCHPZPS00A9QI@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:11:02 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) with ESMTP id <01J7AXB7WKCU00AYXV@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 03 Feb 1999 10:06:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.43); Wed, 03 Feb 1999 10:04:15 +0000 (GMT0BST) Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.43); Wed, 03 Feb 1999 10:04:02 +0000 (GMT0BST) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 10:03:58 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: H-COST: Favourite Costumes In-reply-to: <199902022059.NAA27046@indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <254487275A@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Teddy I *love* this sort of thread. Such a lovely insight into the other list-members and their interests! > What are your favourite costumes or periods in historical dress? If > you have a favourite period, do you have a special need for the > costumes, e.g. some certain period reenactment? Costumes for *me* Erm.... Several periods. Starting with the one I have very little opportunity to wear, 18th Century, full skirted frock-coats with knee britches, long waist-coats and ruffly shirts. I've been given details of a UK based "Lace-Wars" group that this stuff is appropriate for, but haven't the time with all the earlier period stuff I do... So my red and white brocade outfit gets worn to the occasional costume party/event or as everyday clothing (wonderfully warm for travelling to work in the winter) For periods I am active in, it has to be 15th and some16th Century stuff. Long houpellandes (the more opportunities for, bigger and more elaboately dagged, sleeves the better, in *my* opinion). I also love the stuff with fitted hose and *short* doublets. I'm tall and slim and my best features are *definately* my legs and behind, so these allow me to show them off (so does skin-tight lycra worn for non-costume stuff and SF cons...) As for stuff I make for other people. I seem to be going through a cotehardies and Italian Ren phase. I love the smooth line of a well fitted, full skirted cotehardie on women. Italian Ren gowns are so straight-forward that I can "play" with lots of lovely fabrics creating a wide variety of effects with them. I like a some of the later Tudor and Elizabethan mens styles too, except for the peascod belly. A pet peeve is the groups that insist on it being present if you're doing that period *even though* there's plenty of evidence that it wasn't a universally adopted by the fashionable and rich of the time. Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 05:32:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA15392 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 05:32:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA22299; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:37:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA01810 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:39:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from redwood.shu.ac.uk (pp@redwood.shu.ac.uk [143.52.2.24]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA01714 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:39:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from ntlupus.shu.ac.uk by redwood.shu.ac.uk with inbound ESMTP (local); Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:38:44 +0000 Received: by ntlupus.shu.ac.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BE4F61.66F9C6E0@ntlupus.shu.ac.uk>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:38:57 -0000 Message-ID: From: "Chandler, Sally" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: UK Renactor's Markets (was Costume Con) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:41:47 -0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 58 TEXT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Chandler, Sally" I don't want to get into any internal arguments as to which Fair is best as there's lots of politics involved - best to go to all of them, I expect - but it's important to note that not all deal with every time period. Blackbird Leys purports to cover all, Templars Fair is supposed to be up to Medieval and is smaller. It's fair to say that the style of each is unique. The English Civil War people are, apparently very well served for traders. Have fun, anyway, Sally Ann -----Original Message----- From: Teddy [SMTP:Teddy@mdx.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 9:46 AM To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: UK Renactor's Markets (was Costume Con) -Poster: Teddy Hi Diana and others > I also heard that there is something like a reenactment fair taking > place each year in the UK. There one can get nearly everything > dealing with reenactment (also costumes) from all kind of periods. > If anybody has got info about that, please mail me privately, > thanks! In addition to the twice yearly Blackbird Leys market that has already been mentioned, there is a newer event. The Templers Faire at Cressing Temple near Stanstead in Essex on the 8th/9th May. Market, with some entertainment and living/interactive history stuff too. A fun event where people attending in costume are welcome (and get in cheaper) and there is camping available. I've not been myself, but people in one of the groups I play in had a traders stall at the first one (last year0 and said they preferred it to the Blackbird Leys event. I also have details of and English Heritage *Medieval* Faire at Battle Abbey near Hastings in ...erm... East Sussex I think (geography was never a strong point of mine!). 26th/27th June. Possibility of some camping space being available (according to the events list I'm looking at) September 4th/5th. Multi-period market with Medieval event at Groombridge Place near Tunbridge Wells in Kent. Contact Dawn Wood on (0181) 977 9160 for details. I don't have the date for the Autumn Blackbird Leys market yet. If I do get details, I'll try and remember to send them to the list Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 05:48:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA15492 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 05:48:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA22689; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:53:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA29623 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:55:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailgate.caci.co.uk (mailgate.caci.co.uk [195.173.80.20]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA29434 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:54:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from caci_ntas1.caci.co.uk (caci_ntas1.caci.co.uk [194.70.42.18]) by mailgate.caci.co.uk (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24448 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:52:09 GMT Received: by caci_ntas1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:52:03 -0000 Message-ID: From: Christina Nevin To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: FW: Fair Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:52:02 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christina Nevin Hi, Here are the details for the Re-enactors Fair. Our Shire go en masse each time and it's great (except on our wallets!), everything from Early Celtic and Roman through to medieval, renaissance, civil war, Napoleonic and Victorian stuff. Renactors Fair March 13 & 14, 1999 10am? onward Blackbird Leys Leisure Center, Pegasus Rd, Blackbird Leys, Cowley, Oxford These happen about three times a year. Sometimes they have one up north too, but I don't have that info on me at the moment, I usually pick up a leaflet at the fair. If you can't make this one and want me to send you those details, drop me an email. Cheers Tina ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Lady Lucrezia-Isabella di Freccia | mka Tina Nevin Thamesreach Shire, The Isles, Drachenwald | London, UK thorngrove@geocities.com | http://www.geocities.com/~thorngrove "There is no doubt that great leaders prefer hard drinkers to good versifiers" - Aretino, 1536 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 05:59:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA15546 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 05:59:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA23302; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 04:04:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA21459 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 04:06:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA21202 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 04:06:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) id <01J7AZ8TWPR400AKGQ@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:08:17 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) with ESMTP id <01J7AZ6H93CI008TOZ@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 03 Feb 1999 10:59:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.43); Wed, 03 Feb 1999 10:57:41 +0000 (GMT0BST) Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.43); Wed, 03 Feb 1999 10:57:16 +0000 (GMT0BST) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 10:57:13 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: H-COST: UK Renactor's Markets (was Costume Con) In-reply-to: <199902031039.DAA01940@indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <2627B653BD@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Teddy > I don't want to get into any internal arguments as to which Fair is > best as there's lots of politics involved - best to go to all of > them, I expect - but it's important to note that not all deal with > every time period. > Blackbird Leys purports to cover all, Templars Fair is supposed > to be up to Medieval and is smaller. It's fair to say that the > style of each is unique. The English Civil War people are, > apparently very well served for traders. Good points! I should have made the disclaimers that I have no affiliation to any of the markets I listed adn have only ever attended the Blackbird leys one myself. I found it good, but noticed a definate 17th C (english Civil War period) bias to the type of traders there. My friends who have traded at the Templars Faire didn't mention any specific period inclusions or exclusions but their interests are mostly 14th/15thC based, so they may not have been interested in anything outside of the Medaeval period or not thought about mentioning in the context of discussing their trading activities. I was just reporting what they *had* said about it. As in all these things - Is hsould be kept in mind that these were their *personal* opinions, not necessarily an objective review of the event. Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 06:11:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA15619 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:11:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA23673; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 04:16:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA11451 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 04:18:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from redwood.shu.ac.uk (pp@redwood.shu.ac.uk [143.52.2.24]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA11241 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 04:18:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from ntlupus.shu.ac.uk by redwood.shu.ac.uk with inbound ESMTP (local); Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:17:22 +0000 Received: by ntlupus.shu.ac.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BE4F66.C92E5D30@ntlupus.shu.ac.uk>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:17:29 -0000 Message-ID: From: "Chandler, Sally" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: FW: Fair Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:20:18 -0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 55 TEXT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Chandler, Sally" The Fair is open on Friday 12th too. The Saturday will be something akin to a rugby scrum so, if there's something you really want, don't rely on the traders having something left on Sunday! Sally Ann -----Original Message----- From: Christina Nevin [SMTP:cnevin@caci.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 10:52 AM To: 'h-costume@indra.com' Subject: H-COST: FW: Fair -Poster: Christina Nevin Hi, Here are the details for the Re-enactors Fair. Our Shire go en masse each time and it's great (except on our wallets!), everything from Early Celtic and Roman through to medieval, renaissance, civil war, Napoleonic and Victorian stuff. Renactors Fair March 13 & 14, 1999 10am? onward Blackbird Leys Leisure Center, Pegasus Rd, Blackbird Leys, Cowley, Oxford These happen about three times a year. Sometimes they have one up north too, but I don't have that info on me at the moment, I usually pick up a leaflet at the fair. If you can't make this one and want me to send you those details, drop me an email. Cheers Tina ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Lady Lucrezia-Isabella di Freccia | mka Tina Nevin Thamesreach Shire, The Isles, Drachenwald | London, UK thorngrove@geocities.com | http://www.geocities.com/~thorngrove "There is no doubt that great leaders prefer hard drinkers to good versifiers" - Aretino, 1536 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 07:34:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA16057 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:34:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA26529; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 05:40:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA04980 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 05:42:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA04973 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 05:42:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA16365.; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:45:41 GMT Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 03 Feb 1999 12:41:46 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 12:41:23 +0000 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Reenactment fair Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id HAA16057 Status: O -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" I wonder whether the event Diana is thinking of is "History in Action", organised by English Heritage at Kirby Hall in Northamptonshire? Groups representing every period from the Romans to WWII put on displays throughout the weekend and also set up Living History camps, and there is a reenactors' market where clothes, weapons and accessories can be bought. This year's event is 14-15th August. PS: My favourite costumes are mid-17th century as I reenact the English Civil War period. My interest grew from joining the Sealed Knot many years ago, as it was the only re-enactment society I knew of at the time. Before that I loved the Regency (Napoleonic) period but I don't own any costumes of that era. Kate Bunting King's Lifeguard of Foote, Sealed Knot (Library, University of Derby) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 08:59:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA16503 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:59:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA02589; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:04:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA10386 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:06:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA10366 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:06:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA13794 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:09:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA05229 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:08:14 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:08:13 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: aglets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed Sure! It's http://www.firemountaingems.com/ Drea On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Carol J. Bell Cannon wrote: > > -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > On 990202, Drea wrote: There's this really great > catalog, Fire Mountain Gems, > ... > Drea, would you please post the address or url for those of us who > may be interested. Thank you! Carol J. Bell Cannon / Gra/inne ingen > Domnaill Ilda/naig > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 09:04:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16538 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:04:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA03040; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:09:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA10721 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:11:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA10713 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:11:37 -0700 (MST) From: Gwnvr@aol.com Received: from Gwnvr@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id AZIFa20087 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:10:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1c28ed62.36b858e1@aol.com> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:10:41 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: A&E Unmentionables Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 236 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gwnvr@aol.com Disappointing. How about that guy (???) wearing a corset under his ca. 1800 outfit? Scarey! And wear did they get that iron corset attributed to QE? Definitely not something to wear in a thunderstorm... Jen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 09:12:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16585 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:12:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA03893; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:17:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA11455 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:19:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from x14.boston.juno.com (x14.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.27]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA11428 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:19:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from annetteallen@juno.com) by x14.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2JQ6D2Z; Wed, 03 Feb 1999 09:17:35 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:18:18 -0800 Subject: H-COST: Posture - 18, 19 Centuries and now Message-ID: <19990203.062336.-101045.0.AnnetteAllen@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-31,33 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Annette M Allen Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Annette M Allen I lurk and lurk, but could not resist this one... I am one of the many women on this list who finds corsets *much* more comfortable than bras. One of the reasons is that as I age, my posture has gotten poorer and that causes my back to hurt. (I must interject that I am genetically inclined to be what is called "swayback" as well as being large in both the bust and shoulders.) My grandmother, born in the late 1800s, taught me excellent posture. (Of course, she also wore what I believe this list would call a "modern" corset her whole life.) At work, only one other lady and I have what I would term "traditionally" good posture. Both of us get comments on it. Both of us seldom touch the back of a chair with our back when sitting, and both of us have a job that requires sitting for ten hour shifts with few breaks. An ergonomic consultant hired by our employer went as far as to specifically tell the two of us that we *would* develop back problems *in today's environment* because of how we sit. That statement alone added to my personal conviction that posture is different today but I also have had many other experiences that indicate that. Now, if I could *just* find a steel boned corset (plastic is not strong enough for me) that would not be visible or noticeable under a *fitted* military type uniform! -Annette AnnetteAllen@juno.com For any attached files use: aallen@pacbell.net See my homepage at: Reach or page me at ICQ: Send E-Mail directly to my computer screen using: 14988389@pager.mirabilis.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 09:23:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16638 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:23:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA04844; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:29:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA12776 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:31:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA12771 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:31:28 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id MNIPa27801 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:29:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <72e4c246.36b85d2f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:29:03 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Posture - 18, 19 Centuries and now Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Kay, You know that funny wrinkle at the collarbone? Often you find a seam at that juncture as many garments were made to fit and the fabric was draped. So to keep the smooth line (beyond proper posture, standing up straight, etc.) and still curve around the body, they would fit the big piece of fabric over the front. Cut it and add a "strap" piece over the shoulder. What makes it odd is to see the pattern pieces and to make the garment using flat patterns. You have to understand draping to realize why. So, don't want to stand up "straight" as the jacket. Alter it at that point with a seam. Stays were also made in this manner with stay pieces (fronts, sides, backs, straps) sent to the colonies unassembled to be made and adjusted here to the person. Jamestown-Yorktown Foundation has an unassembled pair of stays. These were the cheaper, middling sorts of stays for those who could not afford custom. Favorite costume? 18th century, what else! Sally www.sallyqueenassociates.com Costume Calendar Series _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 09:45:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16748 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:45:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA06968; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:50:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA15491 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:52:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from dskfw2.funb.com (dskfw2.funb.com [168.175.254.62]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA15482 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:52:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by dskfw2.funb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA14167 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:52:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from clt-conn-04.funb.com(168.175.76.78) by dskfw2.funb.com via smap (V2.0) id xma014139; Wed, 3 Feb 99 09:51:56 -0500 Received: by clt-conn-04.capmark.funb.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1H10H9TH>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:51:54 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Stapelton, Gregory" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Waterproofing Tents (was z'out, etc.) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:51:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Stapelton, Gregory" When you put it on, it's comes out like honey, but it soaks into the seam, sealing the stitching holes and is clear. Seams like I remember it leaving a glossy finish, but since you put it on the inside seams, you usually don't notice it. Gawain > -----Original Message----- > -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" > Thanks for the tip on k-cote. I'd never heard of it. Does it have an > obvious presence (I'm thinking along the lines of caulk) or is it a thin > liquid like the Thompson's? > > Kay Herb > kayherb@juno.com > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 09:56:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16815 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:56:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA07850; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:57:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA16373 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:59:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA16364 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:59:39 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id CFCUa20557 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:58:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4b8476a5.36b8642e@aol.com> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:58:54 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: naval reenactors? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com I know there used to be a few people on this list who did 16th century shipboard reenactment. If you are still there, will you please email me off- list? I have a couple of very specific research questions that will probably be very easy for you to answer, but I have no idea where to even begin looking. Thanks!!!! Gail Finke gaelscot@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 10:02:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16854 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:02:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA08939; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:03:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA17148 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:05:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from m16.boston.juno.com (m16.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.192]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA17133 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:05:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m16.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2JTU6J8; Wed, 03 Feb 1999 10:04:58 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Clogs in England & History-PLEASE NOTE Message-ID: <19990203.064919.4991.1.cley@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-13,15-37 From: cynthia j ley Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 10:04:58 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: cynthia j ley Thank you for the clog catalog--it came yesterday, and is really neat! :-) Two questions: What's the conversion 1) from English to American sizes? 2) British pound to US dollar? Thanks again! Arlys On Tue, 02 Feb 1999 19:42:11 -0800 "Carol J. Bell Cannon" writes: > >-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > >At 04:47 PM 2/2/99, Melanie Wilson >wrote: >Just a warning to anyone ordering these clogs from England (as in the >details I gave) I got a shipment today of an order I placed in >Continental >sizes (common here in the UK) and they sent the wrong British sizes, >so if >you send your American Shoe size it will most likely arrive incorect , >I >suggest you convert to British sizes 1st. > Thanks for the hint, Mel. I would add, you can always have >someone >trace around your foot, too. It's cruder, but has worked for me in >the >past. Carol [cjc] > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 10:24:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16964 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:24:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA12151; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:25:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA20656 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:27:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA20633; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:27:53 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:27:53 -0700 (MST) From: Elizabeth Lear Message-Id: <199902031527.IAA20633@indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: sewinghistoric@onelist.com Subject: Re: H-COST: When silk was Gold Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Lear <-Poster: Heather Law Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA17047 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:39:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA14042; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:41:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA23259 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:43:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA23248 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:43:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip5.denver22.co.pub-ip.psi.net [38.31.4.5]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA22152 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:43:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B86F9C.8D4CA4F3@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 08:47:43 -0700 From: Mary Denise Smith Organization: Costume & Dressmaker Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Pounds to dollars References: <19990203.064919.4991.1.cley@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mary Denise Smith Sorry that I can't help with shoe sizes, but the Pound is running about $1.65 right now, give or take a little. It is my experience that the very best exchange rate for cross-currency purchases is using a credit card. The banks do the exchange on the day the charge is processed, and the exchange rate is at bank rate, not street rate. Hope this helps, Mary Denise Smith _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 10:54:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA17148 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:54:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA16336; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:55:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA25444 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:57:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailnfs0.tiac.net (mailnfs0.tiac.net [199.0.65.17]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA25425 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:57:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from kdp.tiac.net (kdp.tiac.net [206.119.75.41]) by mailnfs0.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8) with SMTP id KAA18127 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:57:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990202122005.2f572014@tiac.net> X-Sender: kdp@tiac.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 12:20:05 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kristin Page Subject: Re: H-COST: C.9th Dutch costume In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kristin Page Responding to Maarten Cornelis on 9th century clothing query My areas of primary interest are north and east of Netherlands so I don't know of any books or sites that deal specifically with 9th century Netherlands but a library search using keywords like ANCIENT TEXTILES, COSTUME, NETHERLANDS might help, ditto using subjects like ARCHAEOLOGY, MUSEUM, CONSERVATION. Another place to start might be museums with textiles in their collections. A tourism agency would know of places in the Netherlands that do reenactment as is done in the US at Plimoth Plantation (Massachusetts) and Williamsburg (Virginia), and in UK at Yorvik (York); all of these places have affiliated research groups who might be helpful. The only names that come to mind are Schlabow and Kooi -- I think they publish in archaeological journals. Contact me and let me know how you're doing, or if you think I can help. Kristin Page _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 11:02:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA17262 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:02:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA17514; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:04:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA26822 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:06:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA26801 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:06:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.186 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:05:33 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: how to - cummerbund for "smallish" boy Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:08:37 -0500 Message-ID: <000801be4f8f$b2c49d60$ba14ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <36B75FC6.51399F69@worldaccessnet.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" For a man or boy, a cummerbund is generally pleated about 3 times, then lined. The bones and the lining keep the pleats from coming out. The shape is often an "arc" on top (and sometimes on the bottom) in the front, but can also be a straight piece of fabric. The closure is often a two-part hardware device especially made to fasten a wide cummerbund. One side had a T-shaped thing on it that goes into the other side at 90 degrees, then turns 90 degrees to clip into place in a flat smooth closure. The cummerbund is sewn to the metal "loops" on each closure piece, alternatively fed through the loop and turned back on itself and fastened with Velcro where you can't see it, so that it is adjustable. But snaps, buttons, hooks and eyes, and Velcro all work too. For a child's outfit, there's a strong argument for integrating the cummerbund into the blouse or bottoms and closing it up with the rest of the garment. It just helps it stay in place better. With a boy's costume, just make sure you work out a method, so he can drop his pants with some degree of ease or unsnap the crotch seam of his outfit when he needs "to go." Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sidne Kneeland Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 3:28 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: how to - cummerbund for "smallish" boy -Poster: Sidne Kneeland Greetings, Well, I think the loops to fasten to the pants or shirt are a good idea. But, I need a step backwards from there. Is the cummerbund a tube that is gathered and ordinarily hooks and eyes in the back or what? My husband does a suit but nothing more. Thanks, Sidne Hope H. Dunlap wrote: > -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > When I was small in the 1950's, cummerbunds on > pre-schooler's clothes were fashionable, and I still > remember the details. Generally, but not always, the lower > edge of the cummerbund was permanently sewn onto the skirts, > pants, or shorts. Then there were 4-6 self-fabric loops (a > very narrow tube turned inside out) attached to the top > inside of the cummerbund at front, sides, and back which > slipped over buttons sewn onto the blouse or shirt in > strategic locations above the waist line. These helped hold > the cummerbund up in place, but more importantly, kept it > from rotating around the waist in an unattractive way. The > sides of the cummerbund and the place where the cummerbund > opened were sometimes boned with short pieces of padded flat > boning to help it stay up too. (snip....) ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 13:13:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA18053 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:13:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA07663; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:15:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA21255 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:17:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from dub-img-7.compuserve.com (dub-img-7.compuserve.com [149.174.206.137]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA21224 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:17:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-7.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id NAA20644 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:16:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:16:15 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Clog conversion To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199902031316_MC2-691D-CA92@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id NAA18053 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson >Thank you for the clog catalog--it came yesterday, and is really neat! :-) >Two questions: What's the conversion 1) from English to American sizes? No direct one I can see, look at Teva sandals site they had a pretty accurate one on there > 2) British pound to US dollar? 1 pound = approc 1.6 dollars Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 13:22:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA18111 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:22:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA08969; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:23:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA22871 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:25:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id LAA22847 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:25:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 7457 invoked from network); 3 Feb 1999 18:28:42 -0000 Received: from tntmodem1-168.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.133.168) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 1999 18:28:42 -0000 Message-ID: <36B8B99E.425C@mc.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 13:03:26 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Fave cost:... All of the above! References: <199902031039.DAA01940@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Penny, Right, but there's New newbies since then! :-) Diana, Personally I think it's *very* on topic (web-maitressa, please correct me if you disagree!) Like someone else said: Yes! I like all N. Euro. up to the 20s, and Near, Middle, and Far East, plus S.E. Asia, Africa, India... In other words, *all* historical and ethnic garb (not too keen for "national dress" self-consciously designed in the 19th-20th to be that way, unless it is *exactly* the same as the actual historical garments worn in period. I also sell fabric at SCA events and am always interested in hearing about what people are into... I am eventually going to web my fabric, trims, a few extra copies of various books that I have, and of course the costuming-interest bookmarks I've accumulated. The site will be more than strictly Middle Ages/Ren, but I will be focused on supplying that type of stuff as I haven't seen anyone on the net specialize in *fabric* for those times (Anyone know of any? If so, could you post or email me offlist w/the url? Like to see what's already out there) I want to include an ezine (Garb Age) of hints, tips, diagrams (original, and *well* documented, please -- if you supply me with good stuff for Garb Age, I'll make it worth your while in fabric or discounts...) Your old handouts from SCA lectures/demos, other classes and presentations are fine, just please, watch the copyright thang... :-) Also, if you need help with diagrams, I am pretty good at that type of thing, so maybe we can add them to text articles and up the reward a little for your efforts... Please get in touch with me if you're interested in contributing, I can't web anything if I don't have anything to web! (Still waiting for financial matters to loosen up so I can put up my fabric. **sighhhh**) > - -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" > > Diana, > This was all covered in last year's directory for the list. Maybe, this > summer I'll have time to put together another directory. I'll have to see > things go. > > Later...Penny > http://www.costumegallery.com > > >Hello everybody! > > > >This is just a question out of personal interest: > > > >What are your favourite costumes or periods in historical dress? > >If you have a favourite period, do you have a special need for the > >costumes, e.g. > >some certain period reenactment? > > > >I would also be glad if those of you who have an own costume business, > >could tell me > >in which costumes or periods they specialize and if such a thing exists, > >give me the adress of their homepages? > >Please, mail that privately to me as I believe this is off topic for the > >list. > > > >Thanks, > >Diana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 13:39:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA18192 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:39:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA12198; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:40:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA25949 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:43:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id LAA25915 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:42:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 12107 invoked from network); 3 Feb 1999 18:46:05 -0000 Received: from tntmodem1-168.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.133.168) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 1999 18:46:05 -0000 Message-ID: <36B8BDB1.41DC@mc.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 13:20:49 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: what's a calash? References: <199902030205.TAA18110@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law If you could tell me what period, area, and what the critter actually is (cape? coat? hat? I'm clueless!) I may be able to find some sources on it btw my bookmark collection and other costumers I know out here (not that anyone else on this list couldn't...but being a supplier, I'm always looking for new info... and besides, my curiosity is **killing** me!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 14:45:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18557 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:45:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA26360; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:44:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA08467 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:47:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA08451 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:47:05 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id XZSZa27784 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:44:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <16993111.36b8a710@aol.com> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:44:16 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: what's a calash? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com A calash is a head covering over the high hairstyles of the late 18th century. Wish the Calendar 2000: Historic Fashions Turning the Centuries was printed because the DAR Museum's selections in March include a calash. That is a teaser, isn't it. Linda Baumgarten shows one in her book, _18th Century Clothing in Williamsburg_. Sally www.sallyqueenassociates.com Costume Calendar Series _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 15:08:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA18715 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:08:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA00215; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:07:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA12528 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:09:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA12512 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:09:34 -0700 (MST) From: AliaClaire@aol.com Received: from AliaClaire@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id JPFWa20087 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:06:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:06:43 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Favourite Costume/ Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com Hi all! I'm rather new to this list, and still new to costuming, but I did want to jump in here. Most of the things I've made are American Civil War related, since I reenact with a group from that time. My favorite dress is a white batiste dress, cut with a very full, slightly elliptical skirt. The bodice is gathered, and the moderately low, square neckline (out of a drawing in Peterson's that I'm in love with!) is edged with black ribbon. The sleeves are full, with rows of very narrow black ribbon for trim. At the chest I've embroidered small butterflies, and I'd like to add some more embroidery work this coming year. My favorite designs: a white silk Regency dress that I'm embroidering, from around 1808: high waist, small, puff sleeves, and pink and green flowers embroidered. Also, an 1890s ballgown in red taffeta with black beading, a 1530s English style dress, a late 1600s undress dress, a couple "new look dresses", and a few modern evening gowns, including one based on 14th-century gowns that I'm working on for a friend's prom dress. Favorite time periods: I'm mostly familiar with Europe and American costume. I love anything by Worth or Dior, English styles from around 1490-1570, middle Regency (1800-1818 or so), American Civil War, 1870s bustle dresses, 1890 dresses, late 1940s dress....and so on. -Alison Stacy AliaClaire@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 15:41:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA18901 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:41:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA06045; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:42:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA19207 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:44:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA19198 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:44:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from 132.198.103.242 (132.198.103.242) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.17673C90@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:44:31 -0500 Message-ID: <36B8B580.2B32@uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 15:46:19 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Posture - 18, 19 Centuries and now References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hope Greenberg Several years ago the Shelburne Museum (http://www.shelburnemuseum.org/home.html) put on display several of it's mid-19th century gowns. The curator mentioned that they could not use modern mannekins at all and had to design their own. This they did with wire and stuffing--filling out the gowns as much as possible. Oddly enough, while everyone who studies the period knows that the 1840s-50s are the decades of the amazing disappearing shoulders, they were still surprised by these gowns. Not only were the shoulders designed to follow the ideal of sloping shoulders, when stuffed they really were sloping--there were no visible shoulder bumps to be seen at all. They wondered if it was due to the corsetting. The permanently narrowed back of the 18th century corset wearer explains the proportions of gowns from that century, but does anyone know of permanent body changes that would result from mid-19th century corsetry that would explain sloping shoulders? (Apparently collarbones and shoulders are moveable--at least when a series of x-rays was taken of the group of peoples (sorry, don't remember the name) that try to achieve the long-necked look by wearing more and more neck-rings, they discovered that the neck was not stretching--instead the collarbone and bones of the shoulder were being pushed down, sometimes right down over the rib cage.) - Hope ------------- hope.greenberg@uvm.edu, U of Vermont, http://www.uvm.edu/~hag _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 15:53:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA19000 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:53:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA07907; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:54:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA21585 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:56:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from vail.telesensory.com ([12.7.233.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA21571 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:56:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by vail with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:56:55 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Vickers, Jill" To: "'h-costume'" Subject: H-COST: Fabric Question Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:56:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Vickers, Jill" For most of you this must be an elementary question, but I haven't taken a textiles class yet so please bear with me! While perusing one of my books that has illustrations from Godey's, I noticed that when the clothing is being described sometimes the term "cloth" is used seemingly to indicate the type of fabric being used. What fabric do they mean? The only one I can think of that may be appropriate is cotton, but if that's it, why didn't they call it just that? -Jill _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 16:18:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA19171 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:18:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA13199; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:19:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA26616 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:21:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA26583 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:21:41 -0700 (MST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id IJYKa07784 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:14:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:14:35 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST:Pounds to dollars Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com << shoe sizes >> Birkenstocks come in European sizes. Perhaps you can find your local outlet and find out what size you wear. Nancy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 16:40:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA19310 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:40:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA16449; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:41:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA28711 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:32:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.worldaccessnet.com (whmREHRHW9L7SJG7GZcUzlRhJ2Q7nCaQ@worldaccessnet.com [206.190.139.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id OAA28602 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:32:23 -0700 (MST) Received: by vortex.worldaccessnet.com id m1089uB-000dPEC; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:32:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail3.2.0.91#4) Received: from max1-42.worldaccessnet.com(209.17.80.234), claiming to be "worldaccessnet.com" via SMTP by worldaccessnet.com, id smtpdAAAa005GN; Wed Feb 3 13:32:05 1999 Message-ID: <36B8B281.8E8D6BC3@worldaccessnet.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 12:33:05 -0800 From: Sidne Kneeland X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Reenactor's Fair in UK References: <36B1B697.E982C474@ndh.net> <36B77888.EC4A54B8@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sidne Kneeland Greetings list, We will be traveling to London, England, and Scotland in April. Are there any other suggestions, must see's, of sites, places....? Thanks, Sidne Mary Denise Smith wrote: > > There is a Reenactors' Fair coming up March 12,13 & 14 at Blackbird Leys in Oxford England. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 17:23:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA19589 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:23:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA22870; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:24:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA08611 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:26:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA08588; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:26:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id IAA24205; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:56:25 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA26305; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:56:24 +1030 Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:56:24 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Favourite Costumes In-Reply-To: <254487275A@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Teddy wrote: > > -Poster: Teddy > > I *love* this sort of thread. Such a lovely insight into the other > list-members and their interests! > > > What are your favourite costumes or periods in historical dress? If > > you have a favourite period, do you have a special need for the > > costumes, e.g. some certain period reenactment? *grin* All of them..... No there are a few periods I'm not very keen on (I think I'm the only person in the world who doesn't like Regency for instance, though I quite like very late 18th century) My particular favourites are pretty much all of the 15th century and early Tudor, 12th century, late 17th and 18th centuries, and the 'between bustle' Victorian. Edwardian and later Tudor is growing on me, as is post Civil War 17th Century. Sadly I only have an excuse to do pre-1600... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 19:01:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA20161 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:01:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA06783; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:01:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA25720 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:04:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA25697 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:04:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p28.directcon.net [206.170.184.77]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA07612 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:58:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:58:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902032358.PAA07612@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Posture - 18, 19 Centuries and now Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >The permanently narrowed back of the 18th century corset wearer explains >the proportions of gowns from that century, but does anyone know of >permanent body changes that would result from mid-19th century corsetry >that would explain sloping shoulders? Assuming that you would have to start with someone whose bones are young enough to accept molding, I just called my five year old over and pulled his shoulders back, as if he were wearing a garment with a back cut very narrow. This action caused his shoulders to drop very noticably, about 2". So, it seems likely that corseting to a narrow back from a young age could cause the sloped shoulder. Now, if I could just get him to believe that this *doesn't* mean Mommy is planning to make him a corset.... Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 19:04:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA20174 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:04:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA07539; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:04:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA26180 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:07:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA26172 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:07:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p28.directcon.net [206.170.184.77]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA08130 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:01:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:01:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902040001.QAA08130@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: Looking for a Merchant Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson Hi everyone. If anyone can help this former list member, please drop her a line. She would also be grateful if someone would post her request to the SCA garb list (I'm no longer subscribed). I am looking for a fabric seller who has sold at the SCA's Pennsic war in past years. They also sell at Rev War, Civil War and other reenactments. The phone number I have for them has been disconnested and I cannot track down a new number. If anyone can help me locate them, I'd be grateful. The last info I have for them is: Mary Harkless, Timeless Textiles 321 N. Union Street Middletown, PA 17057 717-361-2253 -OR- Harkless, Timeless Textiles 1742 Hershey Road Elizabethtown, PA 17022 I can be contacted directly at historic@pacbell.net. Thanks! Gwen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 19:18:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA20255 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:18:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA09552; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:19:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA28753 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:21:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA28721 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:21:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from sue.computercrafters.com (pm3frd1-68-73.intrepid.net [206.102.68.73]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA21170 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:21:32 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990203193209.008787a0@intrepid.net> X-Sender: sshatto@intrepid.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:32:09 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sue Shatto Subject: Re: H-COST:Pounds to dollars In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sue Shatto I have a coversion chart for Men & Women USA,UK, Mexico,Europe/Paris Points, Japan. If you tell me your size , I can look it up for you. At 04:14 PM 2/3/99 EST, you wrote: > >-Poster: SNSpies@aol.com > ><< shoe sizes >> > >Birkenstocks come in European sizes. Perhaps you can find your local outlet >and find out what size you wear. > >Nancy > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > Cordially, Sue Shatto Sue@VictorianMillinery.com http://www.VictorianMillinery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 19:32:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA20325 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:32:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA11718; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:33:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA01030 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:35:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA01009 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:35:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2KUGSLG; Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:34:56 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Posture - 18, 19 Centuries and now Message-ID: <19980920.202407.5351.2.kayherb@juno.com> References: <72e4c246.36b85d2f@aol.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,11-57 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:34:56 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" Sally, Thanks for the advice! Yep, there's a seam there, alright. Now, darn it, I'm gonna have to take it apart. It does serve as a good reminder about my wretched posture, but I think a little alteration will make it serve a better purpose. I'm in the process of putting lots more boning in my stays, too. I only lightly boned them, thinking of them as working stays, but with my size and endowment, I really, really need the extra damming up so's not to present the "sweater puffs leaking between bars" look. And you're so right about the draping -- I do tend to forget. Kay kayherb@juno.com On Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:29:03 EST SAQUEEN@aol.com writes: > >-Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com > >Kay, > >You know that funny wrinkle at the collarbone? Often you find a seam >at that >juncture as many garments were made to fit and the fabric was draped. >So to >keep the smooth line (beyond proper posture, standing up straight, >etc.) and >still curve around the body, they would fit the big piece of fabric >over the >front. Cut it and add a "strap" piece over the shoulder. > >What makes it odd is to see the pattern pieces and to make the garment >using >flat patterns. You have to understand draping to realize why. So, >don't want >to stand up "straight" as the jacket. Alter it at that point with a >seam. > >Stays were also made in this manner with stay pieces (fronts, sides, >backs, >straps) sent to the colonies unassembled to be made and adjusted here >to the >person. Jamestown-Yorktown Foundation has an unassembled pair of >stays. These >were the cheaper, middling sorts of stays for those who could not >afford >custom. > >Favorite costume? 18th century, what else! >Sally >www.sallyqueenassociates.com >Costume Calendar Series > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 19:32:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA20329 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:32:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA11750; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:33:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA01045 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:35:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA01029 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:35:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2KUGSSN; Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:34:56 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: what's a calash? Message-ID: <19980920.202407.5351.3.kayherb@juno.com> References: <199902030205.TAA18110@indra.com> <36B8BDB1.41DC@mc.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-7,21-22,30-31,35-40,42 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:34:56 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" On Wed, 03 Feb 1999 13:20:49 -0800 Heather Law writes: > >-Poster: Heather Law > >If you could tell me what period, area, and what the critter actually >is [snip] Be most happy to, Heather! A calash is headgear, sized to accomodate whatever height of hairstyle you're carrying at the time (calashes from 13" to 21" in height have been found). The best analogy seems to be the top of a conestoga wagon (rounded off by the supporting arcs of ribs). I've seen French, English and American colonial examples from mid- to late 18c. To the bottom of the "wagon top" attach a cape of about 4" to 6" in depth, ribbons to tie it at the throat, and a long narrow ribbon attached at the top front (or two attached at the top sides) that are held in the hand to keep tension on the front to keep the calash forward. Otherwise it tends to flop backward, owing to its accordion-like construction. Someone from north of me (Historic Deerfield, maybe? -- where's those e-mails when you really need them????!) has seen one that's lightly stuffed -- conjecture here being that it was warmer for the northern climes. For pictures, I can refer you to Figure 222 in "Historic Dress in America" by Elizabeth McClellan (page 227 in the copy I have here), and pages 145-147 of Beth Gilgun's "Tidings from the 18th Century." (Beth's includes instructions for an unlined calash -- pretty simple construction, but somewhat labor-intensive since I feel there's a lot that really has to be done by hand. And she was kind enough to let me closet myself with the original at a Petticoat Bridge Rev War event a few years ago.) Drool, drool! I don't know how much traffic they had with the common woman. My feeling is that they were used more by the more leisure classes since the point was to protect the fancy hairstyles when going from home to an event. (Hey, Sally Queen -- how far off the mark am I?) How's that, Heather? Kay Herb kayherb@juno.com (Whose answer to the favorite period question is 18c, in case you can't tell!) ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 19:48:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA20405 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:48:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA14972; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:49:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA03746 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:52:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.his.com (root@mail.his.com [205.177.25.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA03727 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:51:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.252.121.172] (pm9-177.his.com [205.252.121.177]) by mail.his.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA10957 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:51:56 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: lola@mail.his.com Message-Id: Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:54:00 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lola Lee Subject: H-COST: Ottoman Garments (Women) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lola Lee If you're interested in garments worn in Turkey during the Ottoman Empire, then check out this page. I discovered this while browsing her web site. Apparently a dealer found a trunk filled with antique caftans, and she was able to obtain a couple. Really beautiful handiwork. Looks like real gold thread was used. http://www.my-health-n-wealth.com/garments1.html Lola - mailto:lola@his.com Christ is Born! | Get a Mac and a Palm! http://www.his.com/~lola/ljl.html | ICQ: 14914550 *** Free the Afghani ladies! *** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 20:17:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA20587 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:17:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA18888; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:18:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA07451 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:20:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from echo.flash.net (echo.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA07445 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:20:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p119.amax18.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.68.119]) by echo.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22794 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:19:57 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36B8F54B.3400A0D4@flash.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:18:04 -0600 From: Kim Graham X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pattern instructions References: <19990130223900.6056.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kim Graham christianna del Oro wrote: > -Poster: "christianna del Oro" > > Hello List > > Does anyone have Period Pattern #41 and maybe 40 or 42? > Are these the men's and ladies' Italain Renn patterns? I have them, plus the women's early (Henry VIII) Tudor pattern. If we ascertain that we aren't violating copyright laws, I'd be glad to copy the instructions for you. Just let me know where to send them. My email address: kgraham@flash.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 20:31:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA20683 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:31:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA20474; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:32:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA09157 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:35:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA09149 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:35:02 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id DWMNa05309 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:30:11 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <403592bc.36b8f823@aol.com> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:30:11 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: what's a calash? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Kay, Pretty close as to who wore a calash. Upper middling to upper. Definitely milliners and others in the fashion trades who wanted their clientele to know they were up on the latest fashions. Many survive in today's collections, so there use may have been more prevalent than we know. About a month with the Norton and Sons letters on microfilm at Colonial Williamsburg might give a good analysis of use in America. Any takers? Sally www.sallyqueenassociates.com Costume Calendar Series _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 20:46:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA20797 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:46:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA22073; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:47:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA11338 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:49:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA11330 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:49:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from gia-g (dialup748.serv.net [207.207.65.112]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA26514 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:49:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <006501be4fe1$214ec980$7041cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: "Costume List" Subject: H-COST: another finished object Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:50:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0060_01BE4F9D.ABAF3A40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BE4F9D.ABAF3A40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings list! I've been having lots of fun sewing...I just made a Italian Ren gown in = the manner of the portrait done by Jacopo Pontormo, "Lady in a Red = Dress" 1532/33". I found this portrait in "The art of the Portrait" by = Norbert Schneider. I didn't do it exactly like it, but used it as my = primary source. =20 For those who don't know this portrait, it's full upper sleeve, with = long lower sleeves (black), the upper sleeve is pleated onto the bodice = and lower sleeve. The gown has a high waist and a square neckline and = there appears to be a black 'rope belt' at her waist seam. The skirt = seems to be pleated onto the bodice. There also appears to be some 'red = on red' embroidery at the neckline. I used some velvet (well, about 10 yards) I had stashed for about 5 = years. It's black ground with a black/blue pile and various shades of = green for the leaves and gold accent painted on. This is my 'reasonable = facsimilie' as the weaving techniques of the time would have done the = pattern and colors (Polychrome velvets) woven in. Finding it painted on = was the best I could do. For the interlining, I used horsehair interfacing and lining it I used a = heavy black satin that had a lovely design woven in it (it was leftover = from a evening gown I made for my teenage daughter).=20 I handsewed a gold trim and pearls along the neckline, at the elbow = seams and wrists of the lower sleeves. Another portrait in the same = book, a little earlier by Raphael "Donna Velata, c1513" has a gown = heavily adorned with gold trim (plain though). =20 My gown is articulated, meaning each main piece (bodice, upper sleeves, = lower sleeves, skirt) are "completed items" fully lined and finished = (except the skirt; the seams are just all finished) and all pieces = assembled together by the hand stitching when I did the cartridge = pleating. I cartrige pleated the upper sleeves at the sleeve head, and at the = elbow attaching them by hand to the armseye and the top of the lower = sleeve. I decided to lace it up the back, although there's other sources = for side and front closures. I did metal eyelets, but I'm stitching = buttonhole stitching over them. I also cartridge pleated the skirt onto = the bodice. (OASN: Personally I can't think of how a person can machine stitch the = cartridge pleating on and get the full effect..Has anyone tried?) For the chemise, I gathered the neck and the wrists into a lovely = embroidered trim and it's highnecked like in the portrait. I did three = rows of gathering stitches and left two of them to show. The portrait = seems to have a 'decorated smocking' effect to me...what do you all = think? Or is it another piece of embroidered trim that the collar = attaches to? I wore it to the Feast at Ursalmas (for those of you in the SCA), and = had it on the mannequin behind the Aquaterra Costumer's Guild Consulting = table. I appreciate everyone else posting their 'finished objects' on this = list! It encourages me greatly to keep on working on my projects! Thanks!=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BE4F9D.ABAF3A40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greetings list!
 
I've been having lots of fun = sewing...I just=20 made a Italian Ren gown in the manner of the portrait done by Jacopo = Pontormo,=20 "Lady in a Red Dress" 1532/33".  I found this = portrait=20 in  "The art of the Portrait" by Norbert Schneider.  = I=20 didn't do it exactly like it, but used it as my primary source. =20
 
For those who don't know this portrait, it's full = upper=20 sleeve, with long lower sleeves (black), the upper sleeve is pleated = onto the=20 bodice and lower sleeve.  The gown has a high waist and a square = neckline=20 and there appears to be a black 'rope belt' at her waist seam.  The = skirt=20 seems to be pleated onto the bodice.  There also appears to be some = 'red on=20 red' embroidery at the neckline.
 
I used some velvet (well, about 10 = yards) I had=20 stashed for about 5 years.  It's black ground with a black/blue = pile and=20 various shades of green for the leaves and gold accent painted on.  = This is=20 my 'reasonable facsimilie' as the weaving techniques of the time would = have done=20 the pattern and colors (Polychrome velvets) woven in.  Finding it = painted=20 on was the best I could do.
 
For the interlining, I used horsehair interfacing = and lining=20 it I used a heavy black satin that had a lovely design woven in it (it = was=20 leftover from a evening gown I made for my teenage = daughter). 
 
I handsewed a gold trim and pearls = along the=20 neckline, at the elbow seams and wrists of the lower sleeves. Another = portrait=20 in the same book, a little earlier by Raphael "Donna Velata, = c1513"=20 has a gown heavily adorned with gold trim (plain though).  =
 
My gown is articulated, meaning each main piece = (bodice, upper=20 sleeves, lower sleeves, skirt) are "completed items" fully = lined and=20 finished (except the skirt; the seams are just all finished)  and = all=20 pieces assembled together by the hand stitching when I did the cartridge = pleating.
 
I cartrige pleated the upper sleeves at the sleeve = head, and=20 at the elbow attaching them by hand to the armseye and the top of the = lower=20 sleeve. I decided to lace it up the back, although there's other sources = for=20 side and front closures.  I did metal eyelets, but I'm stitching = buttonhole=20 stitching over them.  I also cartridge pleated the skirt onto the=20 bodice.
 
(OASN: Personally I can't think of how a person can = machine=20 stitch the cartridge pleating on and get the full effect..Has anyone=20 tried?)
 
For the chemise, I gathered the neck and the wrists = into a=20 lovely embroidered trim and it's highnecked like in the portrait.  = I did=20 three rows of gathering stitches and left two of them to show.  The = portrait seems to have a 'decorated smocking' effect to me...what do you = all=20 think?  Or is it another piece of embroidered trim that the collar = attaches=20 to?
 
I wore it to the Feast at Ursalmas (for those of you = in the=20 SCA), and had it on the mannequin behind the Aquaterra Costumer's Guild=20 Consulting table.
 
I appreciate everyone else posting their 'finished = objects' on=20 this list!  It encourages me greatly to keep on working on my=20 projects!
 
Thanks! 
------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BE4F9D.ABAF3A40-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 20:49:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA20845 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:49:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA22538; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:50:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA11797 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:52:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (root@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us [168.150.253.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA11784 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:52:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from nomad.cwnet.com (dcn151.dcn.davis.ca.us [168.150.253.151]) by wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (8.8.7/DCN8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA11320 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:52:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:01:26 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE4F9F.37A66A40.nomad@dcn.davis.ca.us> From: Margo Glenn-Lewis To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Favourite Costumes Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:48:34 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Glenn-Lewis I like the looks of Italian Ren, but have never made any (but now that I think about it...) I like costumes of the Asiatic steppes peoples - Mongols, Uighars, et al., and the desert peoples of the near east. I like anything I can embroider on. Margo Glenn-Lewis nomad@dcn.davis.ca.us Opal Sun Softweare "Don't forget your bucket." Ice Machine in the Desert/Brave Combo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 21:08:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA20964 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:08:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA24556; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:09:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA14183 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:12:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA14174 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:12:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.177] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 108EH8-00003v-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:12:15 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 18:12:56 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: RE: H-COST: Favourite Costumes In-Reply-To: <01BE4F9F.37A66A40.nomad@dcn.davis.ca.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 05:48 PM 2/3/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Margo Glenn-Lewis > >I like the looks of Italian Ren, but have never made any (but now that I think about it...) Maybe we can work on the It. Ren. together. I've got some lovely black-on-black wool, or some sky blue damask, though I was thinking the damask might be nice for ME. >I like costumes of the Asiatic steppes peoples - Mongols, Uighars, et al., and the desert peoples of the near east. Besides, they're darned comfy. :-) >I like anything I can embroider on. Gra/inne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 21:39:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA21130 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:39:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA28024; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:40:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA17806 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:43:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.his.com (root@mail.his.com [205.177.25.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA17788 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:43:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.252.121.172] (pm9-171.his.com [205.252.121.171]) by mail.his.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA17478 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:43:06 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: lola@mail.his.com Message-Id: Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:37:04 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lola Lee Subject: H-COST: Re: Favourite Costume Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lola Lee I usually lurk in here most of the time. But this thread just has to bring me out . . . I'm very interested in European ethnic costume, and Indian and Middle Eastern costumes as well. As for historic costumes, well, 16th century just grabs my attention. I'm particularly interested in the Spanish costume during the 16th and 17th century, simply because I don't see much of these whenever I browse the SCA websites and go to the Maryland Renaissance Fair just about a half hour drive from here. I'm interested in the 17th century, up to the English Civil War/end of the 40 Years War. Fast forward to 19th century and my interst peaks up as I reach the 1860s into the 1870s, a short fast forward over to the 1890s (I just can't stand the severe cut of the 1880s dresses). And the first 30 years of the 20th century I wish were very much in style right now, because everything goes into a a rapid decline for me. Lately, I've just never been able to find anything to my taste at all at the stores such as JC Penny, Hecht, etc. I'm the type who will wear either blue jeans or long dresses/skirts. In fact, I'm planning to learn to sew just so I can get into those feminine, long dresses. I've bought a dress aleady from Jeanie Chauncey, and she's currently making one of the long-sleeved, Empire dresses for me - a really lovely plaid wool with a nice drape that I got from G Street Fabrics. Lola - mailto:lola@his.com Gospodi Pomilui | Lord Have Mercy | Get a Mac and a Palm! http://www.his.com/~lola/ljl.html | ICQ: 14914550 *** Free the Afghani ladies! *** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 21:40:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA21151 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:40:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA28173; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:41:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA17969 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:44:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA17962 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:44:25 -0700 (MST) From: AliaClaire@aol.com Received: from AliaClaire@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id SVFVa03472 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:35:54 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <6b459ba0.36b9078a@aol.com> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:35:54 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Tudor Help Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com Okay, I need help (we all knew that anyway, but...) I found a BEAUTIFUL gray silk damask that I can almost afford tonight. It would make a lovely Tudor dress, with a pink underskirt and sleeves trimmed with pearls, and a black velvet French hood... Now I need help finding patterns and instructions. I'd like to make it in a fairly period correct method, undergarments and all, dating probably 1530s- ish. I really don't know WHERE to start. Any hints? -Alison (who has always wanted a Tudor dress....) Stacy AliaClaire@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 22:31:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA21448 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:31:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA03883; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:28:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA23227 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:31:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from hammurabi.nh.ultra.net (hammurabi.nh.ultra.net [207.41.144.251]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA23216 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:31:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209.6.139.68 (d68.dial-5.mnh.nh.ultra.net [209.6.139.68]) by hammurabi.nh.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/mtc.v2) with SMTP id WAA01573 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:30:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36B9141F.780B@nh.ultranet.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 22:29:34 -0500 From: Stephen & Astrida Schaeffer X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-NSCP (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Books on Regency collections? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Stephen & Astrida Schaeffer Can anyone recommend books showing costume collections in England from about 1790-1830? I'm doing research for my thesis and need to compare American dresses to their English counterparts. As I can't afford a trip abroad just now, I'm hoping to find useful photos in books... Does the Museum of Costume in Bath have any publications out? Thanks, Astrida _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 22:40:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA21512 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:40:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA05039; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:39:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA24439 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:42:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA24419 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:42:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA19610 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:45:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17831 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:43:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:43:36 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor Help In-Reply-To: <6b459ba0.36b9078a@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed > > Now I need help finding patterns and instructions. I'd like to make it in a > fairly period correct method, undergarments and all, dating probably 1530s- > ish. I really don't know WHERE to start. Any hints? Lets see...for pictures of period tudor portraits & modern reproductions to get ideas from, I have a list of links to Tudor pictures at the Elizabethan Costuming Page ( http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/ ) . Links to instructions on making a Tudor Corset & spanish farthingale are on the same page. A good book for pattern layout and construction ideas is Jean Hunnisett's Period Patterns for Stage and Screen (Book 1), that has a reproduction on Jane Seymour's gown plus lots of incredibly helpful hints on how to put it together. (It's a stage costume book, tho, not historical costume, so sometimes she sacrifices absolute authenticity for covenience. The Elizabethan Costuming page also has a link to a site which sells ready-made Tudor gown patterns, from two different companies if you want to go that route. Good luck! Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 3 23:44:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA21847 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:44:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA12194; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:44:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA01371 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (root@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us [168.150.253.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA01363 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:46:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from nomad.cwnet.com (dcn121.dcn.davis.ca.us [168.150.253.121]) by wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (8.8.7/DCN8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA20896 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:46:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:55:30 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE4FB7.889C32A0.nomad@dcn.davis.ca.us> From: Margo Glenn-Lewis To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Favourite Costumes Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:50:08 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Glenn-Lewis >Besides, they're darn comfy. My secret is out!!! We can talk costuming at lunch? Morgan Margo Glenn-Lewis nomad@dcn.davis.ca.us Opal Sun Softweare "Don't forget your bucket." Ice Machine in the Desert/Brave Combo -----Original Message----- From: Carol J. Bell Cannon [SMTP:cjcannon@greymists.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 6:13 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Favourite Costumes -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 05:48 PM 2/3/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Margo Glenn-Lewis > >I like the looks of Italian Ren, but have never made any (but now that I think about it...) Maybe we can work on the It. Ren. together. I've got some lovely black-on-black wool, or some sky blue damask, though I was thinking the damask might be nice for ME. >I like costumes of the Asiatic steppes peoples - Mongols, Uighars, et al., and the desert peoples of the near east. Besides, they're darned comfy. :-) >I like anything I can embroider on. Gra/inne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 00:02:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA21926 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:58:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA14340; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:56:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA02729 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:59:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay1.Hawaii.Edu (root@relay1.hawaii.edu [128.171.3.53]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id VAA02708 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:59:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from uhunix1.its.hawaii.edu ([128.171.44.6]) by relay1.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <150698(5)>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:59:21 -1000 Received: from localhost by uhunix1.its.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <135722(8)>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:59:16 -1000 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:59:13 -1000 From: lisaleon@hawaii.edu X-Sender: lisaleon@uhunix1 To: sca-garb@coollist.com, Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: H-COST: Re: Pattern needed and random thoughts on underwear In-Reply-To: <99Feb3.161429hwt.310957(7)@listserver.its.hawaii.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: lisaleon@hawaii.edu On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Valerie Rose wrote: > All, > I need a basic chemise pattern that won't cost me an arm and a leg and > firstborn child. I need to be able to use it for long and shorter lengths, Please excuse duplicates, I'm going to cross post this to h-costume. I'm not really looking for a pattern, but I'd like to hear some thoughts on late 14C shifts/smocks to wear under cotehardies. Although I have Dorothy Burnham's Cut My Cote, the patterns are too late. How would a 14C shift have been cut? Would it basically have been a t-tunic-like affair with gores below the waist? I don't imagine you would scrunch a lot of fabric under the fitted part of a cotehardie above the waist. I'm reading the Cunningtons' History of Underclothes and it mentions thin, filmy linen which wouldn't add much bulk even if scrunched. I have a 15C picture of a lady and her lord in her chamber. Her gown is unlaced/unbuttoned down the front, showing her shift. It's definitely transparent since you can see her breasts and navel through it, (no panty lines, though ;> ) but there's no "build-up" of fabric in front. Scrunching is clearly shone on her sleeves. The shift appears to be narrowly cut with a square neckline so can I do the rectangle with gores thing with a clear conscience? The picture is about 75 years later than the time I'm really looking for but it's better than a 16C smock. And speaking of panty lines, here's another question for the great panty debate. If anyone has Ludmila Kybalova's Pictorial Encyclopedia of Fashion, what do you think of figure 767? The caption reads 'Master with the Bandrolle'. Bathing Women. Woodcut. Gothic women used in general to bathe naked. Sorry, I can't find any other reference than that. The part of the woodcut that is shown shows two nude women and another person who is wearing tie-at-the-hip bikini bottoms. I can't decide whether that person is a woman or a man. I can't really tell by the hair or face and the bare breasts could be those of a man or a not-very-busty woman. If it's a woman, this is the only picture I've seen that gives evidence that medieval women wore panties. Has anyone seen the full woodcut? If we knew what else is in it and the context in which it was done it would help. Brothel bathhouse scene? Something allegorical? It kind of looks German to me. The briefs are the same style that I've seen in some Durer paintings. I'm willing to scan the picture and post it somewhere if anyone wants to take a look. Sorry for rambling on so. I have several shifts that I've been making do with, but I want to make something that will satisfy my growing quest for authenticity. lisa/annora _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 00:06:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA21958 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:03:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA15018; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:02:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA03258 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:05:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA03243 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:05:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.147] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 108Gyg-0000dY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:05:23 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990203160836.00c66850@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 16:10:46 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: CostumeCon In-Reply-To: <199902010324.UAA12575@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Besides two costume competitions and maybe a doll competition and a costume party, there is a future fashion show, there are MANY classes, there is 'critical mass' of costumers to schmooze with. >Hello out there! > >What does take place exactly at a costume con? Over here such an >event doesn`t exist, I know only science fiction cons which include a >costume competition. > >Is there anything except the competition during a costume con? > >Diana Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 00:15:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA22010 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:08:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA15472; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:06:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA03487 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:09:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA03468 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:09:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.173] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 108H2U-0002is-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:09:19 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 21:10:00 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: RE: H-COST: Favourite Costumes In-Reply-To: <01BE4FB7.889C32A0.nomad@dcn.davis.ca.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" My apologies. I meant those last msgs. to Margo G-L. to go to her privately, but slipped a cog & missent them to you all. Gra/inne / Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 00:39:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA22183 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:39:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA18439; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:38:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA06187 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:41:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA06179 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:41:04 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip229.van23.pacifier.com [216.65.138.229]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA00726 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:41:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902040541.VAA00726@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:42:15 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Pattern needed and random thoughts on underwear Priority: normal References: <99Feb3.161429hwt.310957(7)@listserver.its.hawaii.edu> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > I'm not really looking for a pattern, but I'd like to hear > some thoughts on late 14C shifts/smocks to wear under cotehardies. Kohler has a photo of an extant one. It looks like sort of a spaghetti straped slip. The shoulder straps are part of the garment from the looks of it, not added later. I made one and it worked great. No binding under the arms. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 03:12:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA28893 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 03:12:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA28133; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:13:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA15891 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:16:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmx07.globecomm.net (rmx07.iname.net [165.251.8.75]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA15877 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:16:08 -0700 (MST) From: sue-historian@writeme.com Received: from weba3.iname.net by rmx07.globecomm.net (8.9.1/8.8.0) with ESMTP id DAA25581 Received: (from root@localhost) by weba3.iname.net (8.9.1a/8.9.2.Alpha2) id DAA08082; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 03:16:06 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99020403160607.07702@weba3.iname.net> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 03:16:06 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: hhdunlap@email.msn.com Subject: H-COST: Posture Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: sue-historian@writeme.com Hope You kindly wrote in response to my posting about posture …"Upper-class children were put into “stays” from the age of 2-4 on. On top of that, those whose posture wasn’t turning out right were “boarded,” i.e. a shaped board bound onto their backs for 3-4 hours per day or more. " Was this the backboard that was like a narrow bed that the poor child had to lie on, or was it actually "worn". Also, how do you acquire the splayed feet posture, it is very difficult today.(I have tried to walk with toes outwards!) I notice all 18and 19C portraits show feet well turned out. Sue ---------------------------------------------------------------- Get your free email from AltaVista at http://altavista.iname.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 04:23:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA29240 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 04:23:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA01741; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:22:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA19093 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:25:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from redwood.shu.ac.uk (pp@redwood.shu.ac.uk [143.52.2.24]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA19085 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:25:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from ntlupus.shu.ac.uk by redwood.shu.ac.uk with inbound ESMTP (local); Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:25:27 +0000 Received: by ntlupus.shu.ac.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BE5020.39D887E0@ntlupus.shu.ac.uk>; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:24:55 -0000 Message-ID: From: "Chandler, Sally" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Reenactor's Fair in UK Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:27:37 -0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 47 TEXT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Chandler, Sally" Do you want to see costume, history, activity? What period. For costume museums see the V & A in London, the National Gallery and the National Portrait Gallery, the Museum of London, theTheatre Museum, the Costume Museum in Bath, Platt Hall in Manchester and many provincial museums and galleries. There's something wherever you go. If in Scotland go to the new Museum of Scotland, will you, and let us all know what it's like for us costumers? We will be re-enacting medieval life at Warwick Castle at Easter and no doubt Kate in Derby will let us know what the Civil War people are up to then. Mary Denise and others will no doubt have more to add. Hope you enjoy your visit, Sally Ann -----Original Message----- From: Sidne Kneeland [SMTP:skskaw@worldaccessnet.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 8:33 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Reenactor's Fair in UK -Poster: Sidne Kneeland Greetings list, We will be traveling to London, England, and Scotland in April. Are there any other suggestions, must see's, of sites, places....? Thanks, Sidne Mary Denise Smith wrote: > > There is a Reenactors' Fair coming up March 12,13 & 14 at Blackbird Leys in Oxford England. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 04:38:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA29319 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 04:38:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA02357; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:39:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA19731 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:42:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from send203.yahoomail.com (send203.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.127]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id CAA19725 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:42:38 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990204094309.20080.rocketmail@send203.yahoomail.com> Received: from [194.168.181.53] by send203.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 04 Feb 1999 01:43:09 PST Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:43:09 -0800 (PST) From: Dora Barnes Subject: H-COST: Posture 18C and 1960s To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dora Barnes >From Dora Just to add to the posture discussion - it was not only the 18C stays that changed(improved?) posture. If you look at 1950 and early 1960 movies (and old TV shows) you will see that we sat and walked differently then. Try the old Doris Day movies. You can often see that women tended to perch on the front of chairs rather than sitting right back. And why did they sit like that ? Anybody who remembers the struggle to get into early 1960s firm control lingerie will know that it's a lot easier to get up afterwards. Dora _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 08:27:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA31192 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:27:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA11288; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 06:27:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA00264 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 06:30:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA00257 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 06:30:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.9] (ell25.acadia.net [205.217.218.9]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA28549 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:30:37 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:30:43 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: winter calash Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> I have seen one here in Maine that's green silk, stuffed with wool fleece. Looks to be quite warm. Probably dates to about 1800. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 11:14:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA01005 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:14:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA00687; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:13:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA26324 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:16:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from dskfw2.funb.com (dskfw2.funb.com [168.175.254.62]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA26249 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:16:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by dskfw2.funb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA23561; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:15:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from clt-conn-02.funb.com(168.175.76.48) by dskfw2.funb.com via smap (V2.0) id xma023541; Thu, 4 Feb 99 11:15:10 -0500 Received: by clt-conn-02.capmark.funb.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1FPAPX7T>; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:15:06 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Stapelton, Gregory" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" , "'sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu'" Subject: H-COST: Researching in Toronto February 10-14 and looking for Scadians Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:15:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Stapelton, Gregory" Greetings to one and all on these lists from Gawain Kilgore, mka as Gregory Stapleton of Charlotte, NC. I'll be in Toronto, ON, from the afternoon of February 10 until the afternoon of February 14. During the days, I'll be researching Medieval Shoes and Leatherwork at the Bata and the ROM. If any SCAdians, or people of a like mind, are interested in getting together in the evenings for dinner I'd love to make your acquaintance and share / compare how we play down here with how you play up there and discuss A&S and anything else of interest. Also, if there are any local meetings going on those evenings, I'd like to attend if you'll have me. :) Yours in Service, Gawain Kilgore Gregory G. Stapleton Gregory.Stapleton@capmark.funb.com gregsta@perigee.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 12:53:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01551 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:53:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA15542; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:53:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA17170 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:56:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from m16.boston.juno.com (m16.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.192]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA17152 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:56:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m16.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2MPZ6K3; Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:55:31 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Pounds to dollars Message-ID: <19990204.093951.7751.4.cley@juno.com> References: <3.0.3.32.19990203193209.008787a0@intrepid.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-11,13-20 From: cynthia j ley Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:55:31 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: cynthia j ley That would be lovely. I wear an 11 men's; 12 women's. Do you know if clogs come in wide? Have arthritis and my feet have spread a bit. Or would I have to custom order? thanks! Arlys On Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:32:09 -0500 Sue Shatto writes: > >-Poster: Sue Shatto > >I have a coversion chart for Men & Women >USA,UK, Mexico,Europe/Paris Points, Japan. If you tell me your size >, I >can look it up for you. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 12:54:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01558 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:54:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA15829; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:54:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA17387 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:57:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA17382 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:57:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id JAA20713 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:56:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B9DF01.47A286DF@best.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 09:55:13 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Posture References: <99020403160607.07702@weba3.iname.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press > … > > Also, how do you acquire the splayed feet posture, it is very difficult today.(I have tried to walk with toes outwards!) I notice all 18and 19C portraits show feet well turned out. > > I think people may be assuming that if a given posture, set of gestures, etc. was common during a given period it was effortless--you learned it in childhood and/or put on your stays and paid no further attention to it. Although physical practice does make things easier it does not make them automatic--you still have to pay attention. The toes are turned out in many forms of dance. After many years of doing historic dance I can say, it's one of many things (including posture) you still always have to pay attention to and check on. Aside from that, turning out the toes in walking (or dance) is not hard as long as you stick to your natural degree of turnout. Turnout should come from the hips. Put your feet parallel against each other, then use your hips to swivel the toes apart while keeping your heels together. This is your body's natural degree of turnout. Forcing a higher degreee of turnout from around the knees, or in general from below the hips, is physically bad for you if you do it consistently. Extreme turnout, where the toes are so far apart the feet are in a straight line, is done in modern ballet but requires physical alteration of the body in childhood. This is one reason ballet dancers are supposed to start lessons very young (12 is considered about the very latest you can start). In the 18th century they used a device called "stocks" that children stood in, in high turnout for a couple hours at a time to alter their bodies. Early 19th-century dance manuals disrecommend stocks on the grounds that they were cruel to children. Don't attempt to emulate this. Just walk with your natural degree of turnout. After you practice a while it gets easier. Fran Grimble ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 13:00:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01603 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:00:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA17333; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:01:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA18702 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:04:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA18676 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:04:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip162.an5-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.16.162]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27027 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:04:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B9D3C8.F5295DD5@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 13:07:22 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: what's a calash? References: <199902030205.TAA18110@indra.com> <36B8BDB1.41DC@mc.net> <19980920.202407.5351.3.kayherb@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Kathryn L. Herb wrote: > Be most happy to, Heather! A calash is headgear, sized to accomodate > whatever height of hairstyle you're carrying at the time (calashes from > 13" to 21" in height have been found). The best analogy seems to be the > top of a conestoga wagon (rounded off by the supporting arcs of ribs). An appropriate analogy, since the word is also used for a kind of light carriage with a folding top. (OED, and Skeat's etymological dictionary) Actually, I think the carriage came first, and the bonnet was named for it, being analogous in terms of the ribbing you're describing. It's from a Slavic root word, and got into French as caleche. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 13:00:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01608 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:00:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA17352; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:01:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA18747 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:04:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from dns1.mcn.org (root@dns1.mcn.org [204.189.12.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA18706 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:04:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from 204.189.12.227 (pm25-1-men-a23.mcn.org [204.189.12.227]) by dns1.mcn.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA02357 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:04:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B9E215.51FC@mcn.org> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 10:08:26 -0800 From: Fred Struthers X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Books on Regency collections? References: <36B9141F.780B@nh.ultranet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Fred Struthers Astrida, I have in stock the Museum of Costume at Bath Official Guide. It is well illustrated in color with lots of historical info. You can call me or email. It is $18 + 2.75 postage. fsbks@mcn.org 707 964-8662 -- Fred Struthers http://www.mcn.org/e/fsbks _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 13:06:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01701 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:06:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA18085; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:06:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA19655 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:09:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from m20.boston.juno.com (m20.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.190]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA19645 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:09:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mor-plentyn@juno.com) by m20.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2MQS346; Thu, 04 Feb 1999 13:09:08 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:13:37 -0800 Subject: H-COST: 17th cen. Buttons Message-ID: <19990203.101347.-3188667.3.mor-plentyn@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-5 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Carmen J Beaudry Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carmen J Beaudry I'm looking for information on what type of buttons would have been used on men's clothing c. 1635. The suit I'm making is based on the french style, but any info on buttons for this period would be appreciated. Carmen/mermaid/Melusine mor-plentyn@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 13:19:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01828 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:19:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA20129; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:19:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA21924 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:22:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from tor-smtp2.netcom.ca (tor-smtp2.netcom.ca [207.181.101.101]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA21913 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:22:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (trt-on7-01.netcom.ca [207.181.82.129]) by tor-smtp2.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA23507 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:21:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003301be506b$ff2b40a0$ab63b5cf@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: Subject: H-COST: Gregory Stapleton's Visit to Toronto Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:26:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" Responded to privately. Eve Harris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 13:27:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01902 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:27:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA21428; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:26:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA23473 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:29:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from c000.paix.cp.net (c000-h005.c000.paix.cp.net [209.228.15.143]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id LAA23420 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 11:29:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (cpmta 548 invoked from network); 4 Feb 1999 10:29:42 -0800 Received: from unknown (HELO lisa) (209.162.71.46) by smtp.tmsonline.com with SMTP; 4 Feb 1999 10:29:42 -0800 X-Sent: 4 Feb 1999 18:29:42 GMT From: "Lisa Scovel" To: Cc: Subject: H-COST: Virtual Exhibits Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:29:43 -0800 Message-ID: <000b01be506c$56065c20$2e47a2d1@lisa.microweb.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199902041757.KAA17408@indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Lisa Scovel" Hello all, Since reenacting doesn't pay the bills terribly well, I work as a producer for a web development/multimedia company in Sacramento, Ca. during the day (The Marketing Store - http://www.tmsonline.com). We are currently interested in using some new technologies to create a public, fully interactive virtual museum on the web - the intention is to use this as a philanthropic and portfolio piece only. We've talked quite a bit about it and due to personal interests, have decided that we would like to use costume/vintage clothing as our initial subject. The technologies we want to use allow 360 degree views of an object, as well as the ability to click on a portion of an item for a close-up view. Costume, of course, just begs for this kind of treatment in a virtual museum! My question to the list is this: We would really like to concentrate on items in personal collections, as opposed to stuff that's already in museums - or stuff that's hidden away in archives somewhere. Our idea is that many private collectors have wonderful stuff, that the public seldom gets an opportunity to see - our museum allows collectors to share without having to give anything up, other than a couple hours for photo shooting. We would give owners full credit, of course, and would be happy to include small advertisements/links, as well. We have a team of exceptional designers who will create a truly beautiful design container for the work, and we hope that we can create something really innovative and special. We would want to set up photo shoots in the Bay Area, California and/or Sacramento within the next couple of months. Garments of exceptional quality, are of course, preferred - and the better documented the better. Vintage items with accompanying vintage photographs - or costumes copied from vintage photographs - would also be ideal! We will provide back drops and dress-forms, we just need the garments, themselves. For a multi-dimensional aspect, a few shots of someone in the costume would also be ideal, but not necessary if fragility is an issue. I would appreciate the list's thoughts on our endeavor, both from the perspective of 'borrowing' items for the shoot, and from the perspective of a wish list for a virtual museum of this type. Also, suggestions for format, i.e. organized by period, type of clothing, gender, etc., would also be appreciated. Thanks bunches, Lisa The Mining Co. - Historical Reenactment http://reenactment.miningco.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 14:11:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02171 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:11:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA28802; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:11:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA01432 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:14:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA01414 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:14:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from sue.computercrafters.com (pm3frd1-68-69.intrepid.net [206.102.68.69]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA26691 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:14:42 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990204142531.007f6e50@intrepid.net> X-Sender: sshatto@intrepid.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 14:25:31 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sue Shatto Subject: Re: H-COST:Pounds to dollars In-Reply-To: <19990204.093951.7751.4.cley@juno.com> References: <3.0.3.32.19990203193209.008787a0@intrepid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sue Shatto It would be a 44 in France and 101/2 in the UK for a woman It would be a 441/2 in France and 10 in France & most other European countries for a man. At 12:55 PM 2/4/99 EST, you wrote: > >-Poster: cynthia j ley > >That would be lovely. I wear an 11 men's; 12 women's. Do you know if >clogs come in wide? Have arthritis and my feet have spread a bit. Or >would I have to custom order? > > >thanks! > > > Arlys > > > >On Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:32:09 -0500 Sue Shatto > writes: >> >>-Poster: Sue Shatto >> >>I have a coversion chart for Men & Women >>USA,UK, Mexico,Europe/Paris Points, Japan. If you tell me your size >>, I >>can look it up for you. > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > Cordially, Sue Shatto Sue@VictorianMillinery.com http://www.VictorianMillinery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 15:00:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02521 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:00:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA05768; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:00:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA09431 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:03:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.gmx.net (qmailr@mail1.gmx.net [195.63.104.61]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA09382 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:03:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 9327 invoked by uid 0); 3 Feb 1999 10:18:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jacomo) (203.216.65.95) by mail1.gmx.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 1999 10:18:41 -0000 Message-Id: X-Sender: marquise_de_pompadour@gmx.net@pop.gmx.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 18:59:02 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pompadour Subject: Re: H-COST: CostumeCon - UK Version... In-Reply-To: References: <199902011908.MAA13117@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id PAA02521 Status: O -Poster: Pompadour At 11:33 02.02.99 , you wrote: >Yes there are Costume Conventions in the UK.  I should add this is >*not* costume con, but is run on similar principles.  The Con is >called "Masque: The British Costume >Convention" and has so far only been a Weekend event (Friday >afternoon/evening to Sunday afternoon). can you give us any hint as to where (if) the locations and dates are published, preferably on the web? couldn't people from all over europe take part? ciao, yo Yours, etc, Yoshiwara, M.A. (Unseen University), AKA His Excellency, etc, the Minister of Silly Walks (Ms), Mistress of the Costume Ring, Couturière to the Marquise de Pompadour http://www.costumegallery.com/pompa dour http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/4440 http://www.geocities.com/Paris/4432 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 15:00:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02522 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:00:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA05732; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:00:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA09400 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:03:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.gmx.net (qmailr@mail1.gmx.net [195.63.104.61]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA09364 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:03:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 8990 invoked by uid 0); 3 Feb 1999 10:18:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jacomo) (203.216.65.95) by mail1.gmx.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 1999 10:18:21 -0000 Message-Id: X-Sender: marquise_de_pompadour@gmx.net@pop.gmx.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 18:50:35 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pompadour Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Evening Corsage In-Reply-To: <36B57FB0.9F4@earthlink.net> References: <199902010349.UAA15469@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id PAA02522 Status: O -Poster: Pompadour At 11:19 01.02.99 , you wrote: >Our Austrian au-pair called brazierres "corsages". Anybody know where >this comes from? indeed, in a german environment "corsage" refers to a strapless, figure-hugging, boned garment, either as underwear or as part of evening dress. it's derived from french "corps", just like "corset". i think i read it somewhere that historically, the term corsage was also used for corsets. ciao, yo Yours, etc, Yoshiwara, M.A. (Unseen University), AKA His Excellency, etc, the Minister of Silly Walks (Ms), Mistress of the Costume Ring, Couturière to the Marquise de Pompadour http://www.costumegallery.com/pompa dour http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/4440 http://www.geocities.com/Paris/4432 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 15:00:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02528 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:00:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA05895; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:00:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA09494 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:04:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.gmx.net (qmailr@mail1.gmx.net [195.63.104.61]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA09369 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:03:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 9255 invoked by uid 0); 3 Feb 1999 10:18:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jacomo) (203.216.65.95) by mail1.gmx.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 1999 10:18:37 -0000 Message-Id: X-Sender: marquise_de_pompadour@gmx.net@pop.gmx.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 18:54:09 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pompadour Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Costume Con - in Europe? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19990131235333.006e2218@binary.net> <199902010349.UAA15469@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id PAA02528 Status: O -Poster: Pompadour At 14:12 01.02.99 , you wrote: > >-Poster: Ninni M Pettersson > Drool, drool. Why, oh why, don't we have events like this here in >Sweden? Yes, I know, we are far to few interested in costuming to make it >work, but I would *so* love to go to an event like this. hej ninni, i believe there are more costumers in europe than we know about. could you live with a costume con in, say, italy? or UK? then how about creating a euro costume society? i've mised that for too long! ciao, yo Yours, etc, Yoshiwara, M.A. (Unseen University), AKA His Excellency, etc, the Minister of Silly Walks (Ms), Mistress of the Costume Ring, Couturière to the Marquise de Pompadour http://www.costumegallery.com/pompa dour http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/4440 http://www.geocities.com/Paris/4432 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 15:03:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02561 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:03:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA06563; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:03:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA10013 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:07:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA10004 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:07:15 -0700 (MST) From: AliaClaire@aol.com Received: from AliaClaire@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id FGPLa00808 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:02:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6ddda53.36b9fcee@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:02:54 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Posture Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com I have a few comments about this thread, which has been very interesting. First, it is possible to slouch in an American Civil War corset. I've tried it. Second, about walking with turned out feet- don't turn your feet out from the knees!!!!!!! It will just absolutely ruin them. Too many ballet teachers don't teach this and little kids have their joints all torn up...anyway. Try turning your whole leg out from the hip, just a little bit. After many years of dance training, this is inbred, and it does help with the classic hips over heels posture. Third. I've always had a little trouble walking in long skirts. I'm only 5'1, so most skirts are long to me! I've always tried kicking them, walking heel- toe as is prevalent today, and it really looks pretty hideous. Today, however, I tried walking with my shoulders back, as has been discussed on here. It made walking almost toe-heel seem very natural, not affected, and would have made walking in long gown very elegant! The mysteries of the ages unlocked. -Alison Stacy AliaClaire@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 15:16:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02646 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:16:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA07439; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA10665 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:11:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (mg128-155.ricochet.net [204.179.128.155]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA10646 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:11:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from ricochet.net (athene.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.14]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA14148 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:13:58 -0800 Message-ID: <36B9FFED.54CC94C0@ricochet.net> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:16:21 -0800 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Posture References: <99020403160607.07702@weba3.iname.net> <36B9DF01.47A286DF@best.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue In the same manner that the shoulders-back posture of earlier times made bone changes, I have heard that modern bedpillows are part of the reason why modern westerners seem to slouch, because they (if you sleep on your back) push the tops of the shoulders and the neck forward. Any knowledge of this one? =-=-=-=-= "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 15:20:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02691 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:20:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA08376; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:20:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA12090 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:24:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA12057 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:24:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from unknown (vcn35.pm3-1.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.240.54]) by sight.vcn.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 765F9F51A6; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:23:57 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Conversation with last message Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Subject: H-COST: H-COST - Bronzino's "Lady with a Puppy" Date: Thu, 04 Feb 99 14:27:20 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id PAA02691 Status: O -Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Greetings! In Bronzino's "Portrait of a Lady with a Puppy", the lady in question is wearing a very beautiful chemise/shirt/whatever with what appears on close examination to be smocking/ proto-smocking on the collar area, with patterns of crosses, etc, worked into the folds. Does anyone have any idea how this was done? Anybody done it? I have seven yards of very dainty silk I've been hoarding for just such a project..... All Health, and apologies to anyone who had to read the same question on another list! Liadain _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 15:22:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02711 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:22:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA08695; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:22:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA12343 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:25:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from wi.net (wi.net [204.95.193.252]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA12322 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:25:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from wi.net (207.67.70.41) by wi.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1b3); Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:28:14 -0600 Message-ID: <36BA01F8.737BEB76@wi.net> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 14:24:25 -0600 From: Patrizia and Mark Nickel Organization: History's Wardrobe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Henry VIII Hat in Holbein Portraits Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Patrizia and Mark Nickel I'm hoping someone on the list can help me with this! I've been requested to make Henry VIII hat in the Holbein portraits. The one with the plumes all around and jewels around the bottom. To me it looks like a flat, large beret, but I've never been good at making hats from pictures! Can anyone explain this hats construction to me? Anyone know of a pattern for it? Is something similar in Janet Arnold's books? Any other books? I've already looked in Kohler. Thanks in advance for all the help! Patty costumes@wi.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 15:22:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02715 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:22:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA08508; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:21:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA12191 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:24:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA12183 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:24:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:24:31 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:29:07 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: H-COST: Neckties Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Downward This very educated group has talked about the beginnings of many pieces and types of clothing over the year I've been on the h-costume list, most recently the German useage of "corsage", but I don't remember this topic being a FAQ. My husband has asked me to ask you (his boss wants to know) about the beginnings of the necktie. Yes, we know it came from the cravat/jabot in recent times. We understand the transition from gathered top of the shirt (by any name) to a ruffle, then to a separate ruff, then the hanging collar in the 1600's. What happened in the middle? Are these two separate chains of dress, connected only because they surround the male neck? I suggested that it kept a napkin nearby to sloppy eaters, but he didn't buy it. Anyone know the real answer? LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 15:41:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02826 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:41:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA10908; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:35:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA14795 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA14771 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:38:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust167.tnt3.sfo3.da.uu.net [153.37.9.167]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17702 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 12:38:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36BA05E2.37115423@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 12:41:06 -0800 From: Christina Conklin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Regency help Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christina Conklin Astrida-- I have three well-illustrated books: Four Hundred Years of Fashion (ca 80 plates of womens dress prev to 1900 in the V & A collection) published 1984 by the V & A Museum The Art of Dress, 1500-1914 (300 + pages) -- published by the National Trust but bought as an overstock title in the US a couple years ago Historical Fashion in Detail, The 17th and 18th Centuries, published by the V & A (toward the end of your period, but FABULOUS close-up photos of their colletion) This book also refers to The Cut of Women's Clothes by Norah Waugh (Faber and Faber, 1987) --I assume it's illustrated. You can get V & A books by mail, and I bet also from Bath. If you do ever get over to London, you can write and apply to study the V & A collection that is NOT on display -- even without academic credentials. I can send you details if you want. Good luck! Christy Conklin Can anyone recommend books showing costume collections in England from about 1790-1830? I'm doing research for my thesis and need to compare American dresses to their English counterparts. As I can't afford a trip abroad just now, I'm hoping to find useful photos in books... Does the Museum of Costume in Bath have any publications out? Thanks, Astrida __________________ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 16:07:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA02990 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:07:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA16283; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:02:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA19822 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:06:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from arl-img-1.compuserve.com (arl-img-1.compuserve.com [149.174.217.131]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA19790 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:06:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by arl-img-1.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id QAA08328 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:05:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:04:59 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Clogs To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199902041605_MC2-694B-834@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id QAA02990 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson >Do you know if clogs come in wide? Have arthritis and my feet have spread a bit. My feet are quite wide & mine fit fine. >Or would I have to custom order? Somebody suggested including a tracing of your foot, I think this is a great idea Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 16:47:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03215 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:46:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA21671; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:35:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA25592 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:39:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA25577 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:39:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id IAA32347 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:09:00 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA05026; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:08:59 +1030 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:08:58 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Evening Corsage In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Pompadour wrote: > > -Poster: Pompadour > > At 11:19 01.02.99 , you wrote: > > >Our Austrian au-pair called brazierres "corsages". Anybody know where > >this comes from? > > indeed, in a german environment "corsage" refers to a strapless, > figure-hugging, boned garment, either as underwear or as part of evening > dress. > it's derived from french "corps", just like "corset". i think i read it > somewhere that historically, the term corsage was also used for corsets. > I do remember reading somewhere that it was used by the French for a light corset, or for the upper garment worn under a polonaise or jacket in the late 18th century.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 18:00:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA03647 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:00:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA01491; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:48:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA07678 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:51:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA07654 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:51:51 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id DPIIa24348 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:45:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <82d37582.36ba22f9@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:45:13 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Posture Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Also, don't look down when walking up stairs! And other secrets of walking in period dress. Women don't get to wear shorter skirts until 20th century. Sally _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 18:28:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA03811 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:28:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA06134; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:16:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA13186 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:20:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub1.cc.columbia.edu (cu41754@mailhub1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.137]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA13119 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:19:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from [128.59.232.100] (pinedo.cerc.columbia.edu [128.59.232.100]) by mailhub1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22522 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:19:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:19:48 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: kara.rodgers@mindspring.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kara Amelia Rodgers Subject: H-COST: Posture Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kara Amelia Rodgers Hello All, I'm new to the list, just joined on Tuesday, and I've been fascinated by this discussion. I have two things to add. First, people seem to be born with varying degrees of natural turn out. I have very high natural turn out, and have walked like a ballet dancer all my life, but degree of turn out can be affected by your environment. I got teased as a kid for walking like a duck, and along with "stand up straight" I got "point your feet forward" from my parents when I was a kid. Now, I walk with less turn out than I did, though it is still noticable. So whoever said the way other people around you stand affects your posture is right. Second, when I was in high school, I rowed. This made me stand up far starighter than I had before or have since. I think part of it is that you need to have a straight back while you are rowing in order not to hurt yourself, but also my back muscles became much stronger as part of the rowing process, making it easier to stand up straight. (by the way, I know of some good lower back exercises to help this out, if anyone is interested, you should email me at rodgers@wpti.org). Ever since this thread started I've been paying much more attention to my posture, much to the amusement of those around me. So it just goes to show that your posture can be changed by your environment, especially from childhood. Cheers, Kara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 18:32:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA03835 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:32:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA06728; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:20:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA13944 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:24:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub3.cc.columbia.edu (cu41754@mailhub3.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.147]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA13924 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:24:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from [128.59.232.100] (pinedo.cerc.columbia.edu [128.59.232.100]) by mailhub3.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA11935 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:24:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:24:18 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: kara.rodgers@mindspring.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kara Amelia Rodgers Subject: H-COST: patterns and pattern making Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kara Amelia Rodgers Hello, I'm fairly new to costume making, though I've sewn for years. Everyone seems to be talking about making garments from pictures. How do you go about making patterns from pictures? Can anyone recommend a good book to help me learn the skill? Also, where is a good place to look for ready made historical patterns? Specifically, a friend has asked me to make a Medieval cloak for him. Suggestions for a newbie would be appreciated! Thanks, Kara P.S. Favorite historical costume period is probably the 19th century, though I'm open to just about anything beautiful! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 19:08:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04042 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:08:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA13522; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:04:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA21601 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:08:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA21579 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:08:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id KAA03105 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:37:54 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA06027; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:37:45 +1030 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:37:45 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Posture In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Kara Amelia Rodgers wrote: > > First, people seem to be born with varying degrees of natural turn out. I > have very high natural turn out, and have walked like a ballet dancer all > my life, but degree of turn out can be affected by your environment. I got > teased as a kid for walking like a duck, and along with "stand up straight" > I got "point your feet forward" from my parents when I was a kid. Now, I > walk with less turn out than I did, though it is still noticable. So > whoever said the way other people around you stand affects your posture is > right. Me too. No trouble at all to turn my feet practically all the way out. But I've never really noticed that I walk like that, and I don't think I do unless I consciously make an effort.... > > Second, when I was in high school, I rowed. This made me stand up far > starighter than I had before or have since. I think part of it is that you > need to have a straight back while you are rowing in order not to hurt > yourself, but also my back muscles became much stronger as part of the > rowing process, making it easier to stand up straight. (by the way, I know > of some good lower back exercises to help this out, if anyone is > interested, you should email me at rodgers@wpti.org). Ever since this > thread started I've been paying much more attention to my posture, much to > the amusement of those around me. I'd be interested in that....I have terrible posture, from years of sitting at desks and computers improperly, and nowadays it is quite tiring on my muscles to actually sit up straight for more than a few secs. I've also heard that strong abdominal muscles help in 'good' posture. > > So it just goes to show that your posture can be changed by your > environment, especially from childhood. Absolutely. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 19:12:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04067 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:12:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA14457; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:11:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA22571 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:15:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from aventurine.sge.net (aventurine.sge.net [152.91.14.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA22560 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:15:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from titanium.sge.net (firewall-user@titanium.sge.net [152.91.9.2]) by aventurine.sge.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA06577 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:15:20 +1100 (EST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by titanium.sge.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA03624 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:15:02 +1100 (EST) Received: from kryptonite.sge.net(10.1.2.11) by titanium.sge.net via smap (3.2) id xma003482; Fri, 5 Feb 99 11:14:34 +1100 Received: from amber. (ice-int2.sge.net [10.1.2.254]) by kryptonite.sge.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA12139 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:14:33 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199902050014.LAA12139@kryptonite.sge.net> From: WICKHAM Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Posture Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:59:22 +1100 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: WICKHAM Raymond I have just come across a book in a newly recieved catalogue from the UK that may shed some light on this question It is "Exercises for Ladies" by Donald Wlaker The description states Calculated tpo preserve and improve beauty and to prevent and correct personal defects, inseperable from constrained or careless habits. Founded on Physological principles. Pub Thomas Hurst 1837 ewith engravings showing variu=ous exercises, right and wrong postures for various activities and also showing Gearys exercise stays Just don't ask the price Ray > Also, how do you acquire the splayed feet posture, it is very difficult today.(I have tried to walk with toes outwards!) I notice all 18and 19C portraits show feet well turned out. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 19:13:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04074 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:13:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA14630; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:12:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA22708 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:16:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA22687 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:16:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id KAA06549 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:45:59 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA06082; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:45:58 +1030 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:45:58 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: patterns and pattern making In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Kara Amelia Rodgers wrote: > > Hello, > > I'm fairly new to costume making, though I've sewn for years. Everyone > seems to be talking about making garments from pictures. How do you go > about making patterns from pictures? Can anyone recommend a good book to > help me learn the skill? Also, where is a good place to look for ready made > historical patterns? Specifically, a friend has asked me to make a Medieval > cloak for him. Um, well mostly experience and observation I think. Certainly that's what's helped me. Some pictures (if you're lucky) will show seams so you can get an idea of how it's made. And once you have a reasonable idea of how various patterns and fabrics behave and sit on the body, you can make educated guesses as to the sort of pattern that would produce a certain look. I can't really comment on books or ready-made paterns, because I rarely use them, but for generic sort of patterns 'Evolution of Fashion' by Hill and Bucknell and the book by Holkeboer the title of which eludes me, are a good place to start. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 19:26:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04146 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:26:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA16901; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:25:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA24494 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:28:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA24397 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:28:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from vaxxine.com (ppp128.analg-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.212.226]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA11568 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:28:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36BA4896.5AB1C7F8@vaxxine.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 19:25:43 -0600 From: Sheridan Alder X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Favourite Costumes References: <008001be4f20$48d63c20$3665accf@s0peladn> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------AF674BFB9990CEEF48445144" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sheridan Alder --------------AF674BFB9990CEEF48445144 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's been very interesting to read about everyone's favorite projects. I didn't intend to participate (too busy!) but broke down. My favorite costume is c. 1792 redingote. A local bicentennial event gave me a feeble excuse to create it. I based it on a garment shown in a French- language text on fashion during the French Revolution (sorry, can't find the reference now) "Portrait de Pierre-Joseph Lecocq et sa famille" c. 1791 by a Dominique Donere. I would have preferred a mauve silk as shown in the painting, but I settled for a strong purple Thai silk. I based it on the robe a l'anglais pattern in "Revolution in Fashion" with sumptuous cartridge pleats, a "zone", buttoned cuffs and a big collar. I felt like a lady in one of the politer Rowlandson prints! Hope I didn't look like a creature from one of his caricatures! Armed with scissors and black felt, a plastic ice cream container for the crown, and cardboard brim, I made a quite reasonable reproduction of one of the silliest hat styles of all time - the 1790's tall style hat with the narrow, tapering crown which slants back slightly like the funnel of the Titanic, topped with a few bows and ostrich feathers. Eight years later it's still rattling around the house and hasn't disassembled to its various components yet! I frightened myself so much by the Thai silk (but it was worth it - I wish I'd remember to spend lots on a correct fabric I really love, rather than buy bits of cheaper fabrics because they're "OK" and an "OK" price) that my petticoat was rather twee - the purple and white indienne fabric would have been more appropriate for an earlier period, but it was cheap. Problem is, nobody re-enacts the 1790's! and I don't have the heart to cut it down to something else. I was started off on Regency by my husband (one day I may finish embroidering that silk gauze evening gown before I'm too old to wear it) but our current obsession is WWI. I have a repro Canadian nursing sister uniform (Lisa, if you're still out there I could send you some photo's FINALLY), a lady's day dress, and an original lingerie dress I can wear on thin days. I'm tempted to do a black gown for a war widow and I'm kicking myself for not purchasing an original last summer. As well as Regency, I'm becoming interested in 18th c. and am dying to do a sack-back gown. It's becoming an obsession. I'm still moping over some perfect sari silk I found, sadly, not enough for a sacque! I've purchased some really dreary blue-grey linen-wool check to do a c. 1850 workingman's dress to "go with" our house, and to accompany my husband to the occasional Civil War event. At heart, the Victorian period (except for leg of mutton sleeves later) leaves me cold - I'm a modern type and suit plain, sleek styles - no frou-frou. Well, enough of me, what about you? Sheridan Alder --------------AF674BFB9990CEEF48445144 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's been very interesting to read about everyone's favorite projects. I
didn't intend to participate (too busy!) but broke down.

My favorite costume is c. 1792 redingote. A local bicentennial event gave
me a feeble excuse to create it. I based it on a garment shown in a French-
language text on fashion during the French Revolution (sorry, can't find the
reference now) "Portrait de Pierre-Joseph Lecocq et sa famille" c. 1791 by
a Dominique Donere. I would have preferred a mauve silk as shown in the
painting, but I settled for a strong purple Thai silk. I based it on the robe a
l'anglais pattern in "Revolution in Fashion" with sumptuous cartridge pleats,
a "zone", buttoned cuffs and a big collar. I felt like a lady in one of the
politer Rowlandson prints! Hope I didn't look like a creature from one of
his caricatures!

Armed with scissors and black felt, a plastic ice cream container for the crown,
and cardboard brim, I made a quite reasonable reproduction of  one of the
silliest hat styles of all time - the 1790's tall style hat with the narrow, tapering
crown which slants back slightly like the funnel of the Titanic, topped with
a few bows and ostrich feathers. Eight years later it's still rattling around
the house and hasn't disassembled to its various components yet!

I frightened myself so much by the Thai silk (but it was worth it - I wish I'd
remember to spend lots on a correct fabric I really love, rather than buy
bits of cheaper fabrics because they're "OK" and an "OK" price) that my
petticoat was rather twee - the purple and white indienne fabric would have
been more appropriate for an earlier period, but it was cheap.

Problem is, nobody re-enacts the 1790's! and I don't have the heart to cut
it down to something else.

I was started off on Regency by my husband (one day I may finish
embroidering that silk gauze evening gown before I'm too old to wear it)
but our current obsession is WWI. I have a repro Canadian nursing
sister uniform (Lisa, if you're still out there I could send you some
photo's FINALLY), a lady's day dress, and an original lingerie dress I
can wear on thin days. I'm tempted to do a black gown for a war widow
and I'm kicking myself for not purchasing an original last summer.

As well as Regency, I'm becoming interested in 18th c. and am dying to
do a sack-back gown. It's becoming an obsession. I'm still moping over
some perfect sari silk I found, sadly, not enough for a sacque! I've
purchased some really dreary blue-grey linen-wool check to do a c. 1850
workingman's dress to "go with" our house, and to accompany my husband
to the occasional Civil War event. At heart, the Victorian period (except for
leg of mutton sleeves later) leaves me cold - I'm a modern type and suit plain,
sleek styles - no frou-frou.

Well, enough of me, what about you?

Sheridan Alder --------------AF674BFB9990CEEF48445144-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 19:36:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04228 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:36:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA18719; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:35:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA25921 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:39:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from m5.sprynet.com (m5.sprynet.com [165.121.1.92]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA25909 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (hil-c52-004-vty136.as.wcom.net [206.175.118.136]) by m5.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA04370 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:38:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902050038.QAA04370@m5.sprynet.com> From: "Carstensen" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:34:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: what's a calash? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36B9D3C8.F5295DD5@earthlink.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carstensen" For an example of a calash in a movie, check out 1776. There's a charming scene where Thomas Jefferson's wife is a bit bewildered about how to wear the new calash he bought for her. It figures that although I've only seen that movie once over 20 years ago, the one scene I remember focusses on the costumes. :) TC Carstensen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 19:40:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04258 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:40:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA19375; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:38:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA26310 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:42:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from aventurine.sge.net (aventurine.sge.net [152.91.14.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA26293 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from titanium.sge.net (firewall-user@titanium.sge.net [152.91.9.2]) by aventurine.sge.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA16345 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:42:16 +1100 (EST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by titanium.sge.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA20758 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:41:58 +1100 (EST) Received: from kryptonite.sge.net(10.1.2.11) by titanium.sge.net via smap (3.2) id xma020583; Fri, 5 Feb 99 11:41:47 +1100 Received: from amber. (ice-int2.sge.net [10.1.2.254]) by kryptonite.sge.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA23220 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:41:47 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199902050041.LAA23220@kryptonite.sge.net> From: WICKHAM Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: What to wear at fancy dress balls Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:37:00 +1100 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: WICKHAM Raymond There seem to be some people on this list that are interested in information about clothing of the 1890's Possibly in a professional capacity I have just received a catalogue from a book seller with a book that may be of interest to on such as these It is Fancy dress described or (What to wear at fancy dress balls) by Ardern Holt Pub by Debenham and Freebody 6th edit dated at 1890 decribed as having several hundreds oif suggestions described and illustrated in colour and monochrome including a lady dressed as a hornet with a wasp waist For info Ray _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 20:00:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA04473 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:00:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA23163; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:59:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA29254 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:03:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA29212 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:03:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id RAA07494 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:00:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36BA427E.542415BA@best.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 16:59:42 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Posture References: <199902050014.LAA12139@kryptonite.sge.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press > > > It is "Exercises for Ladies" by Donald Wlaker > The description states > Calculated tpo preserve and improve beauty and to prevent and correct > personal defects, inseperable from constrained or careless habits. > Founded on Physological principles. Pub Thomas Hurst 1837 ewith > engravings showing variu=ous exercises, right and wrong postures for > various activities and also showing Gearys exercise stays > Just don't ask the price Instructions for posture and walking were taught by dance masters, particularly intensively in the 18th century, and therefore are sometimes printed in dance manuals. (In the19th century posture was not identical to that of the 18th century and varied over the decades.) Physical deportment was viewed as an acquired art, not the work of nature, and was a visible indication of social class. A modern book, _The Life and Works of John Weaver_, by Richard Ralph, published by Dance Horizons, includes Weaver's 18th-century writings on "Standing" and "Walking," as well as bows and courtesies. It is a huge book (1075 pages) and therefore probably expensive (I can't find a price on the jacket) but is probably available in libraries. The Library of Congress dance manual web site: http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/dihome.html has many useful works you can read or download free, including the following: John Essex's 1728 _The Dancing-Master: Or The Art of Dancing Explained_ (a translation of a French manual by Rameau) includes sections on "Of the Manner of disposing the Body," "Of the Manner of Walking well," and "Of the Manner how Women ought to walk and appear gracefully," as well as instructions on honors (a standard) and how men should remove and replace their hats. James Cassidy's _A Treatise on the Theory and Practice of Dancing_, published in 1810, contains no actual dance choreographies or steps. However, it does contain sections on "Choice of Music, Bodily Defects, etc.," "Of the Deportment of the Body," and "On Aukwardness and Affectation, as to the Deportment of the Body." The _Assistant for A. Dodworth's Pupils_, by Allen Dodworth (both the 1873 and the 1878 editions are on-line) gives some insight into the manners and deportment taught to boys (rather than adults) in addition to dancing. If I remember right, his admonitions include telling them not to slam the door when they enter and leave the room. There are many other good manuals on the site, from 16th century (those are mostly well-known ones that have been reprinted) to about 1920. Fran Grimble _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 20:17:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA04563 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:17:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA24527; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:12:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA00646 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:16:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from post.its.mcw.edu (post-v30.its.mcw.edu [141.106.30.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA00637 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:16:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mschulte@localhost) by post.its.mcw.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA11222 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:13:58 -0600 (CST) From: Marie Schulte Message-Id: <199902050113.TAA11222@post.its.mcw.edu> Subject: Re: H-COST: Posture To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:13:58 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: from "The Purple Elephant" at Feb 5, 99 10:37:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marie Schulte ... and for those of you with bad lower backs... Whenever I have seen a physician or physical therapist for my back, they *emphasize* the need for good abdominal muscles to help you keep your back straight. ...just don't ask if I actually do crunches or sit-ups....or remember all the good exercises I'm supposed to do daily. ;) -marie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 20:48:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA04733 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:48:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA28059; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:36:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA03360 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:40:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA03353 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:40:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r3p27.directcon.net [206.170.184.126]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA20983 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:34:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:34:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902050134.RAA20983@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Posture Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id UAA04733 Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >…"Upper-class children were put into “stays” from the age of 2-4 on. On top of that, those whose posture wasn’t turning out right were “boarded,” i.e. a shaped board bound onto their backs for 3-4 hours per day or more. " > >Was this the backboard that was like a narrow bed that the poor child had to lie on, or was it actually "worn". I've seen watercolors done by a child of this period that show girls wearing them. they seem to consist of a heart shaped piece of wood, strapped to the back, with a cross bar at arm level, across which I believe the arms were held but not strapped. One of the pictures shows a weeping child who is being punished for removing her backboard, which lies on the ground at her feet, showing straps to secure it to the torso but none at the wrists. >Also, how do you acquire the splayed feet posture, it is very difficult today. It is most commonly acquired these days by years of ballet classes. Most ballet dancers have a distinct "duck walk" offstage. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 21:16:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA04884 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:16:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA02819; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:11:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA07469 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:15:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id TAA07450 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:15:02 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:15:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 16732 invoked from network); 5 Feb 1999 02:10:23 -0000 Received: from 49.240.3-5.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.49) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 5 Feb 1999 02:10:23 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990204181503.2ba734e2@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Fabric Question Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 12:56 PM 02/03/1999 -0800, Vickers, Jill wrote: > >-Poster: "Vickers, Jill" > > >For most of you this must be an elementary question, but I haven't taken a >textiles class yet so please bear with me! > >While perusing one of my books that has illustrations from Godey's, I >noticed that when the clothing is being described sometimes the term "cloth" >is used seemingly to indicate the type of fabric being used. What fabric do >they mean? The only one I can think of that may be appropriate is cotton, >but if that's it, why didn't they call it just that? > >-Jill Most of the time in the 19th century references, "cloth" means woolen cloth. Cottons, linens and silks were typically specifically named. And in fact that usage of "cloth" did continue into at least the 1950s in some parts of the USA; I remember that one line Richard Nixon, when he ran for Vice President, used about his wife was that she wore "a good Republican cloth coat". Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 21:17:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA04891 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:17:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA03113; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:12:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA07575 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:16:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA07561 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:16:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2NLLMFE; Thu, 04 Feb 1999 21:14:56 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: what's a calash? Message-ID: <19980920.221942.4943.14.kayherb@juno.com> References: <199902050038.QAA04370@m5.sprynet.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-10,12-29 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 21:14:56 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" 1776 the musical? I'm not familiar with another film by that name, but I don't remember a calash in the musical. Now, darn it, I'm going to have to drag that tape out and stay up all night looking for it! Kay kayherb@juno.com On Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:34:08 -0500 "Carstensen" writes: > >-Poster: "Carstensen" > >For an example of a calash in a movie, check out 1776. There's a >charming scene where Thomas Jefferson's wife is a bit bewildered >about how to wear the new calash he bought for her. > >It figures that although I've only seen that movie once over 20 years >ago, the one scene I remember focusses on the costumes. :) > > >TC Carstensen > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 21:18:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA04895 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:17:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA03101; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:12:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA07576 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:16:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA07565 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:16:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2NLLKVD; Thu, 04 Feb 1999 21:14:55 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: winter calash Message-ID: <19980920.221940.4943.5.kayherb@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,9-15,17-39 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 21:14:55 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" Deborah, Dark green silk? (Seems to be a lot of what I've seen.) How firmly stuffed is it? Do you know where I can write for information? I'm fascinated, and would probably venture to make one if I knew more about it. (Someday when they're looking through my estate they'll probably find a trunk full of repro calashes -- wish I'd be there to see and hear what they make of _that_!!! ) Kay kayherb@juno.com On Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:30:43 -0500 pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) writes: > >-Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) > ><where's those e-mails when you really need them????!) has seen one >that's >lightly stuffed -- conjecture here being that it was warmer for the >northern climes.>> > >I have seen one here in Maine that's green silk, stuffed with wool >fleece. >Looks to be quite warm. Probably dates to about 1800. > > > >Deborah > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 21:32:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA04974 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:32:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA05373; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:27:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA09213 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:31:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA09207 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:31:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id SAA19232 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:30:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36BA5795.38A3349E@best.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 18:29:41 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Posture References: <199902050134.RAA20983@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press > It is most commonly acquired these days by years of ballet classes. Most > ballet dancers have a distinct "duck walk" offstage. > That's because ballet and some other forms of dance are the only places people use turnout these days. However, you don't have to do ballet for years to learn to walk with turnout, or to learn other aspects of period posture. Just (a) learn exactly what it is you want to do from period manuals or instructors who have researched them (b) practice those movements/deportment at home at least twice a week (the more the better) and (c) and pay attention to using those skills when out in costume. There is no need to learn any actual ballet steps--unless, of course, you want to do ballet. Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 21:33:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA04981 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:33:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA05557; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:28:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA09304 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:31:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA09293 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:31:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from 168.191.22.16 (sdn-ar-001dcwashP254.dialsprint.net [168.191.22.16]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA19405 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:31:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36BA15B1.65A9CFD6@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 21:48:50 +0000 From: margo king X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: What to wear at fancy dress balls X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199902050041.LAA23220@kryptonite.sge.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: margo king Ray - Where can I get the book you mentioned? What catalogue was it in? You obviously get better (more intersting) catalogues than I do! Also you can send thebook about body brce to me at: Margo King, 8900 Potomac Station Lane, Potomac MD 20854 USA. Let me know how much money you need for postage. Many thanks - Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 22:06:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05160 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:06:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA10796; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:01:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA13187 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:05:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA13177 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:05:09 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id HADJa01223 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:02:33 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:02:33 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Calashes - How to Line Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I recently saw an authentic calash ( NOT a repro). It was lined as you described and the channels were stitched through the two layers of fabric, then the reeds were inserted. It was lovely and in good condition. I don't remember any ruching. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 22:58:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05402 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:58:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA19619; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:54:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA19249 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:57:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA19237 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:57:31 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id DXWYa03538 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:47:49 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <596bd1a4.36ba69e5@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:47:49 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Favourite Costume/Fair Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com Diana -- I don't know where you live in the U.K., but I know there are assemblies at Bath (at the Assembly Rooms, of course) where they do English Country dancing in period clothing, like 18th and early 19th century. There is a big English Civil War circuit there.I'm sure Kate Bunting could give you information on ECW activities. In Scotland there is the White Cockade Society, which participates in mid 18th century events associated with the Jacobite rebellion. Hope you find some interesting events over there. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 4 23:40:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA05666 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:40:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA24964; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:35:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA23434 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:39:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id VAA23424 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:39:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 25518 invoked from network); 5 Feb 1999 04:42:39 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-56.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.56) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 1999 04:42:39 -0000 Message-ID: <36BA9B0E.60FB@mc.net> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 23:17:34 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Henry VIII hat References: <199902042039.NAA14812@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law I could be wrong, but I think Period Patterns may have a pattern for one. BTW, we will have either a workshop or lecture on historic hats and headdresses at DucKon this June! Carol Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 00:31:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA06595 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:31:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA00781; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA27926 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:30:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA27907 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:30:33 -0700 (MST) From: Schiap1@aol.com Received: from Schiap1@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ADAQa07017 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:29:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3d0e7944.36ba81ca@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 00:29:46 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #115 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Schiap1@aol.com In a message dated 2/4/99 12:58:31 PM, you wrote: <> _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 01:21:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA07106 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 01:21:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA05935; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:16:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA02518 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:20:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA02502 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:20:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id QAA09591 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:50:11 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA09498; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:50:10 +1030 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:50:07 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: costume list Subject: H-COST: Late 15th c clothing Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant I've been looking at late 15th century (post 1485)/early 16th century clothing in England and France, with the aim of making myself one of those square necked, wide-sleeved gowns. I have a couple of questions... Those dresses are rarely shown from the back, and when they are, they seem to mostly have low, v-necked backs, often laced. I've only found one piccy in a tapestry of what might be one with a high round neck. Also if I recall correctly, in Hunnisett, in the section on the Jane Seymour gown it says something like that it needs a v-back so it doesn't fall off the shoulders. This seems counter-intuitive to me. Wouldn't a wide square neck with a v-back fall of the shoulders more easily? Would v-backs have been universal? Or would something else have been used? The hoods worn with these dresses seem to have many variations, but leaving aside gable hoods, there are quite a few that look like the women are wearing something that might evolve into the French hood underneath. Boucher says this is a 'headband' and other writers say it is an undercap, but it looks nothing like a coif. Any ideas how it might be made? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 05:09:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA13954 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:09:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA19408; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 03:09:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA14569 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 03:13:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA14556 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 03:12:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA05636.; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:16:28 GMT Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 05 Feb 1999 10:12:32 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5 Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 10:12:09 +0000 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: UK events in April Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id FAA13954 Status: O -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" Sally Ann suggested I supply info. on English Civil War events in April; well, the Sealed Knot is not staging a major muster at Easter this year, but there is an event at Torrington in Devon then, if Sidne is going as far as the West Country. Also, on April 25th Cromwell's 400th birthday is being celebrated at Huntingdon with living history including music and dance (the group to which I belong is providing the music). Kate Bunting King's Lifeguard of Foote, Sealed Knot _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 05:31:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA14065 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:31:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA20072; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 03:31:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA08865 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 03:35:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (mg137-011.ricochet.net [204.179.137.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA08645 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 03:34:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from ricochet.net (athene.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.14]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA01812 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 02:39:51 -0800 Message-ID: <36BACA5C.A8C33181@ricochet.net> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 02:39:32 -0800 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: What to wear at fancy dress balls References: <199902050041.LAA23220@kryptonite.sge.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue WICKHAM Raymond wrote: > Fancy dress described or (What to wear at fancy dress balls) I presume this is, then, the British term "Fancy Dress Ball" which we on the other side of the Atlantic would call a Costume Ball? And what would a ball to which folks were supposed to wear formal modern clothing be called in England? The book sounds very interesting. cv proving that you can learn things from Black Adder =-=-=-=-= "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 05:32:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA14072 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:32:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA20133; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 03:32:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA10173 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 03:36:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA09824 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 03:36:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA06646.; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:39:56 GMT Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 05 Feb 1999 10:36:00 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5 Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 10:35:27 +0000 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Neckties Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id FAA14072 Status: O -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" Lynn Downward asked "What happened in the middle?" I assume you mean between the "falling bands" of the early/mid 17th century and the cravat? Well, I know that some of William Dobson's portraits of Royalist officers show a lace-edged collar gathered into a bunch in front by a bow of ribbon, presumably for convenience when in action. I've also seen pictures from later in the century showing the cravat similarly tied with ribbon. Also, there's a story that Prince Rupert "invented" the cravat by tying a laced handkerchief round his neck when he couldn't find a clean collar. It's my guess that the cravat evolved because a flat piece of linen was easier to launder than a shaped collar. Kate Bunting King's Lifeguard of foote, Sealed Knot _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 07:13:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA14588 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:13:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA23863; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:13:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA19085 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:17:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mercury.janrix.com (mercury.janrix.com [207.22.155.12]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA19079 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:16:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from kat ([207.22.155.130] (may be forged)) by mercury.janrix.com (2.5 Build 2640 (Berkeley 8.8.6)/8.8.4) with SMTP id HAA06464 for ; Fri, 05 Feb 1999 07:16:51 -0500 Received: by kat with Microsoft Mail id <01BE50D7.C8AFAEA0@kat>; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:18:52 -0500 Message-ID: <01BE50D7.C8AFAEA0@kat> From: kat To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: H-COST - Bronzino's "Lady with a Puppy" Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:04:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE50D7.C8B8D660" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE50D7.C8B8D660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I teach smocking and I can offer some advice as well as books on the subject. Please feel free to contact me off list. Kat Hargus owner, Making Time www.makingtime.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE50D7.C8B8D660 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjQMAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAoAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGgtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRy YS5jb20AU01UUABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAUAAAAaC1jb3N0dW1lQGluZHJhLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAWAAAA J2gtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRyYS5jb20nAAAAAgELMAEAAAAZAAAAU01UUDpILUNPU1RVTUVASU5EUkEu Q09NAAAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAAeAPZfAQAAABQAAABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAIB 918BAAAARQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGgtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRyYS5jb20AU01U UABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAAAAAMA/V8BAAAAAwD/XwAAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAC 2VQBBIABADQAAABSRTogSC1DT1NUOiBILUNPU1QgLSBCcm9uemlubydzICJMYWR5IHdpdGggYSBQ dXBweSIAiA8BBYADAA4AAADPBwIABQAHAAQAEgAFAP8AASCAAwAOAAAAzwcCAAUABwADACIABQAO AQEJgAEAIQAAAEJENjY4OTFDRkM1MEJFMTE4MTk4NjI0MTQ2NjNCOTA2AAkHAQOQBgBMBAAAIQAA AAsAAgABAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQDgHmao /1C+AR4AcAABAAAANAAAAFJFOiBILUNPU1Q6IEgtQ09TVCAtIEJyb256aW5vJ3MgIkxhZHkgd2l0 aCBhIFB1cHB5IgACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvlD/qF5xVecDvMUR0rYZqNYneO8VAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUA AABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAADwAAAGthdEBqYW5yaXguY29tAAADAAYQG45AjgMABxCGAAAAHgAI EAEAAABlAAAASVRFQUNIU01PQ0tJTkdBTkRJQ0FOT0ZGRVJTT01FQURWSUNFQVNXRUxMQVNCT09L U09OVEhFU1VCSkVDVFBMRUFTRUZFRUxGUkVFVE9DT05UQUNUTUVPRkZMSVNUS0FUSEFSRwAAAAAC AQkQAQAAABkBAAAVAQAAYgEAAExaRnUSyeczdwAKAQMB9yACpAPjAgBjgmgKwHNldDAgBxOPAoMA UALyD1lUYWgDceUCgH0KgXVjAFALAwtgQG5nMTAzMwxgbApuAiBlArEgSSB0ImUA0GggcwRgY2up C4BnIABwZBQhYwORXm8BIASQFKADcGUVMGQYdmljFnEEIHdlbOcDIBcBBuBvawQgAiAUQEJoFnBz dWJqBZB0sC4gUGwUYA+wIBYA7xdAGXAJ0RRAbxWQAiEA0OcFQBZhFeEgbAQAGOEKoqcKhAqEFWBL YQVASArATGd1D0Abs293E9ByuiwF0GEU8wdiG6R3H0BWLgDAFPJ0B3EuBaBtsRCDczE3HAkLpTQb qgUSMQAjEAAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAADAIAQ/////0AABzDg1hOO/1C+AUAACDDg1hOO/1C+ AQsAAIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAAAwACgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAA EIUAAAAAAAADAAWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAAtw0AAB4AJYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAA AABGAAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADguMAADACaACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAABhQAAAAAAAAsA L4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwAwgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEYUA AAAAAAADADKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAB4AQYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG AAAAADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAA AAAAHgBDgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4APQABAAAABQAAAFJF OiAAAAAAAwANNP03AAACyg== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE50D7.C8B8D660-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 08:24:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA14933 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:24:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA27179; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 06:24:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA23047 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 06:27:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from out.rmci.net ([205.162.184.29]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id GAA23036 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 06:27:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 26161 invoked from network); 5 Feb 1999 06:27:46 -0700 Received: from pag-di71.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.71) by 205.162.184.29 with SMTP; 5 Feb 1999 06:27:46 -0700 Message-ID: <36BAEF99.9AE60EE2@rica.net> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 08:18:18 -0500 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: patterns and pattern making References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jennie Chancey Gosh, this is one area that is so hard to explain -- you just kind of learn by doing. At least, that's what I've done. My mother got me started out early on, since she can make patterns from pictures of garments. From there, it was just years of trial and error and lots of practice. I'm sure there are design courses available (G Street Fabrics here on the East Coast offers them), but I've never yet taken one. As for ready-made historical patterns, try Harper House at http://www.longago.com. They have a catalogue chock-full of period patterns for just about any era you can think of. Hope this helps! Jennie Chancey -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 09:06:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15156 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:06:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA00510; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:06:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA26351 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:10:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA26343 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:10:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.9] (ell25.acadia.net [205.217.218.9]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA11110 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:09:50 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:10:06 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: cloth coats Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> I believe Nixon was actually making the point that Pat did not wear a fur coat. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 10:10:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA15471 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:10:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA06551; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:09:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA03505 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:13:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailnfs0.tiac.net (mailnfs0.tiac.net [199.0.65.17]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA03491 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:13:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from kdp.tiac.net (kdp.tiac.net [206.119.75.41]) by mailnfs0.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8) with SMTP id KAA06177 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:13:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990204113853.0827c2de@tiac.net> X-Sender: kdp@tiac.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:38:53 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kristin Page Subject: Re: H-COST: cloth coats In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kristin Page My grandmother was born in the 1860's and died about a hundred years later; she used the word "cloth" to describe evenly woven (or nearly so) unbrushed woolen fabric in a tabby (plain weave). Weight of the fabric didn't seem to matter to her -- gauze to blanket-weight, it was all "cloth" when she spoke of it. When the weave changed she'd use another word ( twill, repp, etc.) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 10:36:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA15584 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:36:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA10943; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:36:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA07283 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:39:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA07275 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:39:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.94 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:39:25 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Rullions Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:42:11 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be511e$5fcea700$5e22ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" For more discussion of rullions, pampootles, the other words for the rawhide shoes, see I. Marc Carlson's excellent discussion, drawings, cutting diagrams, and bibliographic references at http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/carlson/SHOES/SHOE57.HTM and http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/carlson/SLIST2.HTM. "These were refered to as "Rifeling" in Saxon (aka Riwelingas, Rewylynys, Rowlingas, Rulyions, Rullions, Rivilin (in the Shetlands), Rivelins (in Scotland and the Orkneys), Pampooties in the Aran Islands, Skin-Sko in Iceland, amd Cuaran in Gaelic." Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 12:13:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16139 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:13:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA28720; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:11:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA25397 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:15:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp0-alterdial.uu.net (smtp0-alterdial.UU.NET [192.48.96.28]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA25371 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:15:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from jwilbur1 by smtp0-alterdial.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: 119.pcpool89.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.89.119]) id QQgbgv01398 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:15:18 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:15:19 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Henry VIII hat Priority: normal In-reply-to: <36BA9B0E.60FB@mc.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" Queta's Closet also makes a Tudor/Elizabethan flat cap pattern. Green Duck sells them. http://www.greenduck.com --Jessica > > -Poster: Heather Law > > I could be wrong, but I think Period Patterns may have a pattern for > one. > BTW, we will have either a workshop or lecture on historic hats and > headdresses at DucKon this June! > Carol Mitchell > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 12:17:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16156 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:17:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA29301; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:15:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA26137 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:19:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA26105 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:19:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.114] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 108oua-0001G2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:19:25 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990203223248.00c68100@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990203223248.00c68100@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 22:33:01 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan tall hat In-Reply-To: <000101be4ee5$7c7e93a0$14c47ad1@andrea.gideon> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Try the patterns given in Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion. Keep the brim narrow and the sides sloping slightly inward and you should be fine. The sides are the same height all the way around, and the top is flat. >Anyone made one of these recently? I'm trying to make up a paper pattern >from Elizabethan Costuming from Winter and Savoy and am having problems. It >just seems to look like a cowboy hat. HELP! > Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 12:19:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16163 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:18:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA29472; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:17:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA26258 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA26153 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:19:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.114] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 108oum-0001G2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:19:37 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990203225230.00c677a0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990203225230.00c677a0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 22:53:26 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan tall hat In-Reply-To: <000401be4f07$adf2f9e0$15dc7ad1@andrea.gideon> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >How tall should the side be? I've cut the brim down and it looks better, >but still not right. At this moment the sides are about 5 inches, down from >the 6 inches that the instructions state. No shorter than 4". Proportion the height to the height of the eventual wearer. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 12:19:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16170 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:19:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA29608; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:17:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA26245 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:19:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA26145 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:19:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.114] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 108ouk-0001G2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:19:35 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990203224956.00c686a0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990203224956.00c686a0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 22:52:13 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Costume Con and rust stains In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19990202004525.00cf8188@binary.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >Rhubarb has oxalic acid in it....also a plant that grows here called >'soursob'. It's reasonably poisonous when ingested..... There's a weed which grows in California called oxalis. It has clover-like leaves and acid yellow flowers. Lots of oxalic acid there, and not poisonous to eat (we used to chew on it as kids). It may stain green. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 12:19:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16174 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:19:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA29545; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:17:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA26267 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:20:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA26169 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:19:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.114] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 108ouo-0001G2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:19:39 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990203225807.00c6b960@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990203225807.00c6b960@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 22:59:56 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Favourite Costumes In-Reply-To: <254487275A@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> References: <199902022059.NAA27046@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >> What are your favourite costumes or periods in historical dress? If >> you have a favourite period, do you have a special need for the >> costumes, e.g. some certain period reenactment? Favourite period(s) - 1890-1910 Most often re-enacted - 1500-1600 German, 1850's-1860's. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 12:19:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16178 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:19:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA29714; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:18:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA26268 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA26179 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:19:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.114] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 108ouq-0001G2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:19:40 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990203230035.00c66a90@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990203230035.00c66a90@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 23:01:57 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: Sealed Knot Society In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Is there any chapter you know of as far away as California? Not that the English had much of a presence here at that time... ;) >PS: My favourite costumes are mid-17th century as I reenact the English >Civil War period. My interest grew from joining the Sealed Knot many years >ago, as it was the only re-enactment society I knew of at the time. Before >that I loved the Regency (Napoleonic) period but I don't own any costumes of >that era. > >Kate Bunting >King's Lifeguard of Foote, Sealed Knot >(Library, University of Derby) > Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 12:20:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16186 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:20:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA29793; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:18:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA26272 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:20:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA26199 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:19:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.114] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 108out-0001G2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:19:44 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990205090929.00c66520@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 09:13:22 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor Help In-Reply-To: <6b459ba0.36b9078a@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Find an Alter Years catalog and look up the pattern ratings in there. Some historical patterns cost you more in refitting and debugging time than they are worth. I seem to recall a Tudor one with such a bad rating - rated by experienced sewers who had used it. Alternatively, find someone who has made one of these dresses and use her/his pattern. In either case, make fit a muslin before cutting into your brocade (you knew that). >I found a BEAUTIFUL gray silk damask that I can almost afford tonight. It >would make a lovely Tudor dress, with a pink underskirt and sleeves trimmed >with pearls, and a black velvet French hood... > >Now I need help finding patterns and instructions. I'd like to make it in a >fairly period correct method, undergarments and all, dating probably 1530s- >ish. I really don't know WHERE to start. Any hints? > >-Alison (who has always wanted a Tudor dress....) Stacy Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 12:22:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16198 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:22:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA29911; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:19:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA26276 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:20:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA26186 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:19:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.114] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 108ous-0001G2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:19:42 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990205085214.00c5b9c0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 09:09:04 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: European ethnic costumes In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I usually lurk in here most of the time. But this thread just has to bring >me out . . . I'm very interested in European ethnic costume, and Indian and >Middle Eastern costumes as well. Are there any good recent books out on European ethnic costumes? I have the one with the Victor Ambrus illustrations in it, I have some 1940's books with coloured redrawings for pictures, I have the Handbuch der Deutchen Tracht, and I have Tilke, but I'm looking for something with modern colour photos. I looked at one such book (and of course I forgot the name of it) which had a few photos of actual garments, but these were displayed flat without models to wear them. I didn't buy it. I'd rather have one with photos of people in the garments. Modern colour photos would be nice, but older black and white ones would do too. I'd prefer something covering Scandinavia, Eastern Europe, and the Balkans, as I want to compare laced bodices and embroidered shirts. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 12:38:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16266 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:38:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA02744; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:37:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA00217 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:41:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA00162 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:40:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.9] (ell186.acadia.net [205.217.210.28]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA19532 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:40:56 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:41:01 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: winter calash Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Sorry, it's in a private collection. I'll try to remember to look at it more closely when I go back to work on some other stuff. I think I'd describe it as medium hunter green, with a black lining (all silk). It has a small cape (maybe six inches deep.) It's firmly stuffed, enough to keep its shape after all these years, although a bit of the lining has rotted away. There is an inner lining, probably of linen, presumably to keep the shape. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 12:38:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16267 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:38:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA00145; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:20:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA26266 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:20:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA26206 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:19:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.114] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 108ouv-0001G2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:19:45 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990205091535.00c65e50@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 09:16:32 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: Medieval panties? In-Reply-To: References: <99Feb3.161429hwt.310957(7)@listserver.its.hawaii.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Please post the pictures. I think the one in underwear is a man. > And speaking of panty lines, here's another question for the great >panty debate. If anyone has Ludmila Kybalova's Pictorial Encyclopedia of >Fashion, what do you think of figure 767? The caption reads > 'Master with the Bandrolle'. Bathing Women. Woodcut. Gothic > women used in general to bathe naked. >Sorry, I can't find any other reference than that. The part of the >woodcut that is shown shows two nude women and another person who is >wearing tie-at-the-hip bikini bottoms. I can't decide whether that >person is a woman or a man. I can't really tell by the hair or face and >the bare breasts could be those of a man or a not-very-busty woman. > > If it's a woman, this is the only picture I've seen that gives >evidence that medieval women wore panties. Has anyone seen the full >woodcut? If we knew what else is in it and the context in which it was >done it would help. Brothel bathhouse scene? Something allegorical? It >kind of looks German to me. The briefs are the same style that I've seen >in some Durer paintings. I'm willing to scan the picture and post it >somewhere if anyone wants to take a look. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 13:11:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA16403 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:11:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA08374; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:10:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA07547 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:13:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA07521 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:13:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port1113.koeln.ndh.net [195.227.37.113]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id TAA26389 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:13:49 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36BB5813.90BEFB5D@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 21:44:04 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re:Posture X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef Hello! I can only affirm that you get an upright posture from classical ballet training. I have ballet training once a week since 16 years now and people see it. Often I`m asked :"Do you dance ballet?" when they`ve seen me for some minutes. I seem to walk and sit quite upright, I don`t really notice that myself. My feet are turned out only a little but my friend who wants to become a ballet dancer and has lessons every day walks very turned out. The dancing definitely influences the posture. Greetings, Diana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 13:12:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA16410 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:12:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA08253; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:09:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA07511 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:13:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA07484 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:13:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port1113.koeln.ndh.net [195.227.37.113]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id TAA26375 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:13:39 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36BB5809.26E26129@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 21:43:54 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re:Costume Con-in Europe? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------0E30EA4EDF3F809DCE49994B" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef --------------0E30EA4EDF3F809DCE49994B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Yo! So you`re also here-great! > i believe there are more costumers in europe than we know about. could you > live > with a costume con in, say, italy? or UK? then how about creating a euro > costume society? i've mised that for too long! > > ciao, > yo > I don`t mind in which country the Costume Con takes place, fortunately there is something like that in the UK, you probably read this as well by now. And for the European costume society- yes yes yes !!! Greetings, Diana --------------0E30EA4EDF3F809DCE49994B Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Yo!

So you`re also here-great!
  

i believe there are more costumers in europe than we know about. could you
live
with a costume con in, say, italy? or UK? then how about creating a euro
costume society? i've mised that for too long!

ciao,
yo
I don`t mind in which country the Costume Con takes place, fortunately there is
something like that in the UK, you probably read this as well by now.
And for the European costume society- yes yes yes !!!
 

Greetings,
Diana
  --------------0E30EA4EDF3F809DCE49994B-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 13:21:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA16441 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:21:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA09994; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:19:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA09975 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:23:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from schultz.io.com (ches@schultz.io.com [199.170.88.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA09953 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:23:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by schultz.io.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA21373; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:23:18 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: schultz.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:23:18 -0600 (CST) From: ches To: sca-garb@coollist.com cc: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: H-COST: Re: Queen Elizabeths Wardrobe unlocked In-Reply-To: <199902051759.LAA01458@deliverator.io.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ches Amazon Dry Goods sells it in the US for 139.95 1-800-798-7979 On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, WICKHAM Raymond wrote: > Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:59:55 -0600 > From: WICKHAM Raymond > Reply-To: sca-garb@coollist.com > To: sca-garb@coollist.com > Subject: Queen Elizabeths Wardrobe unlocked > > Greetings and Salutations > Over time gentles have expressed an interest in certain books > that are central to certain costuming periods > A book seller in the UK has just informed me that she can order with > little trouble new copies of Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe unlocked pub > 1988 being the inventories of the wardrobe of robes prepared in July > 1600 edited from Stowe Ms 557 in the British library, Ms LR 2/121 in the > Public Record Office London, and Ms V b 72 in the Folger Shakespeare > Library Washington DC edited with comment by Janet Arnold Photos and > engravings for > > 75 UK pounds will also quote mailing costs upfront > > Any one interested > If any one wants individual details of some UK books suppliers who send > catalogue I have a few of these > > Damocles Truhart > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Free mailing list by Cool List. http://www.coollist.com > > > > ##Unsubscribe automatically at http://remove.coollist.com > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 13:22:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA16448 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:22:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA10248; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:21:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA10618 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:25:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA10581 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:25:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.9] (ell85.acadia.net [205.217.218.69]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA27342 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:24:47 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:24:54 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: fancy dress Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Fancy Dress was quite popular with the upper classes in 19c and early 20c England, when there was a fad for finding 17 c clothing in your attic and reworking it to wear. Some people simply had new clothing made in old styles, which explains some of the strange clothing found in English collections -- style may be 17c, but sewing techniques and shaping aren't. The clothing was also used in portraiture and paintings. If you've read DuMaurier's Rebecca, you probably remember the scene when the new Mrs. DeWinter has a gown made to replicate that worn in a 17c portrait (for those who haven't read it, I won't tell you the result!) Clothing for a ball would be simply dress, or formal wear (what is known today as white tie, black tie being morning wear.) People assumed that their peers knew what kind of clothing to wear for any occasion, so it would have been rude to indicate "full dress", because everyone knew what to wear in the evening. On the other hand, sometimes "don't dress" might be indicated, in case of an emergency, or unusual circumstances. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 14:19:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA16775 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:19:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA20673; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA07249 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:22:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from aventurine.sge.net (aventurine.sge.net [152.91.14.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA07081 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:22:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from titanium.sge.net (firewall-user@titanium.sge.net [152.91.9.2]) by aventurine.sge.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id GAA03136 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 06:23:01 +1100 (EST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by titanium.sge.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA07964 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 06:22:38 +1100 (EST) Received: from kryptonite.sge.net(10.1.2.11) by titanium.sge.net via smap (3.2) id xma007953; Sat, 6 Feb 99 06:22:22 +1100 Received: from amber. (ice-int2.sge.net [10.1.2.254]) by kryptonite.sge.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA27853 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 06:22:22 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199902051922.GAA27853@kryptonite.sge.net> From: WICKHAM Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: An Antique textile fair in Manchester Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 06:21:21 +1100 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: WICKHAM Raymond I have heard a rumour of an Antique textile faire in Manchester UK on the 21st March Can any one give me some details and if they are running a web site Ray _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 14:40:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA16871 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:40:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA23941; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:40:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA18835 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:43:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA18624 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:43:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.77 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:43:07 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: naval reenactors? Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:42:15 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be5140$67fc5720$4d22ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4b8476a5.36b8642e@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I did some research on this recently and found all the info in books on the famous world explorers, the age of exploration, etc. many of which are in the juvenile section of libraries, some in adult sections. They made many drawings and took lots of notes, so when you get to the info, its a gold mine. Whaling and fisheries may yeild a result also. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Gaelscot@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 9:59 AM To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: naval reenactors? -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com I know there used to be a few people on this list who did 16th century shipboard reenactment. If you are still there, will you please email me off- list? I have a couple of very specific research questions that will probably be very easy for you to answer, but I have no idea where to even begin looking. Thanks!!!! Gail Finke gaelscot@aol.com ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 15:53:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00644 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:53:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA05627; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:53:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA07291 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:57:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA07282 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:57:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.225 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:56:33 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Posture 18C and 1960s Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:31:28 -0500 Message-ID: <000501be514a$b1795060$4d22ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <19990204094309.20080.rocketmail@send203.yahoomail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" We were harangued by our mothers and older female relatives to sit like that. We were told we were lucky because in the 50's it was acceptable to actually lean against the back of a straight style chair, which, we were told repeatedly, our grandmothers were never permitted to do. Now I know they wore stays, and no wonder they were able to sit like that for so long. In fact, they couldn't have leaned back if they'd wanted to. When I was a girl, it was explained that moral fiber held our grandmothers up, and the corollary message was that if you didn't sit up straight, you wouldn't have any moral fiber when you grew up, and that would truly be unacceptable, tarnish the family's reputation, and it went on and on.... Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Dora Barnes Sent: Thursday, February 04, 1999 4:43 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Posture 18C and 1960s -Poster: Dora Barnes >From Dora Just to add to the posture discussion - it was not only the 18C stays that changed(improved?) posture. If you look at 1950 and early 1960 movies (and old TV shows) you will see that we sat and walked differently then. Try the old Doris Day movies. You can often see that women tended to perch on the front of chairs rather than sitting right back. And why did they sit like that ? Anybody who remembers the struggle to get into early 1960s firm control lingerie will know that it's a lot easier to get up afterwards. Dora _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 17:17:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01012 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:17:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA20720; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:17:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA22395 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:21:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA22380 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:21:14 -0700 (MST) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id FHDa003210 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:19:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8f30bd36.36bb6e6c@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:19:24 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: another question like "cloth" Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com Hi all, This is probably a stupid question but the discussion about cloth got me thinking about another sort of ambiguous term that's tossed around in the costume books - silk. Many of my books specify that something is "silk taffeta" or "silk satin" then the next photo will be of something that is just "silk." What is the default silk fabric? Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 17:18:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01019 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:18:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA20792; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:17:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA22459 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:21:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA22440 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:21:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from vaxxine.com (ppp116.analg-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.212.214]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06310 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:21:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36BB7C2E.6E766F4D@vaxxine.com> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 17:18:06 -0600 From: Sheridan Alder X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 References: <000001be4cbe$46eeb9a0$2817ffd0@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sheridan Alder I have a vague memory that someone asked for a source for early 18th century quilted petticoat patterns recently. Both a whole cloth quilt and a petticoat of c. 1700-1730 are illustrated on pages 20-21 in the following: "Philadelphia: Three Centuries of American Art. Philadelphia Museum of Art, 1990. 0-87633-016-2 Found this in a remainder bin in Toronto, and includes a fair number of garments, as well as textiles, samplers and paintings which illustrate costume. Anyone who wants to recreate this item has more skill and patience than I am ever likely to possess! Sheridan Alder _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 17:37:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01126 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:37:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA23550; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:37:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA25704 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:41:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id PAA25684 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:41:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 19356 invoked from network); 5 Feb 1999 22:44:13 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-208.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.208) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 1999 22:44:13 -0000 Message-ID: <36BB9889.66BF@mc.net> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 17:19:05 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: anyone have h-cost #100? References: <199902051013.DAA14581@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Please, does anyone have h-cost #100 still on their machine? It got erased before I could see it, and I think there is some stuff in there that I need... If you do, could you please email me *offlist* then forward a copy my way? (Please don't just fwd it, my poor ol'16 megs would choke on 10 or 12 copies, I'll post as soon as (if) I get one. Thanks in advance, Heather lynnx@mc.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 17:58:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01194 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:58:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA26507; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:57:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA28866 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:01:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA28854 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:01:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from unknown (vcn24.pm3-4.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.240.193]) by sight.vcn.com (Postfix) with SMTP id AF2C8F518E; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:01:36 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <01BE50D7.C8AFAEA0@kat> References: Conversation <01BE50D7.C8AFAEA0@kat> with last message <01BE50D7.C8AFAEA0@kat> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST - Bronzino's "Lady with a Puppy" Date: Fri, 05 Feb 99 17:04:11 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id RAA01194 Status: O -Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" I'd love to - but my elderly machine doesn't cough up email addys, sigh.... mine is hardcorps@vcn.com...... Liadain ---------- > I teach smocking and I can offer some advice as well as books on the subject. > Please feel free to contact me off list. > > Kat Hargus > owner, Making Time > www.makingtime.com > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 18:08:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01248 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:08:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA27926; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:05:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA00336 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:09:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from vail.telesensory.com ([12.7.233.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA00298 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:09:28 -0700 (MST) Received: by vail with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:10:00 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Vickers, Jill" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Fabric Question Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:09:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Vickers, Jill" That being said, the book I was reading (Stella Blum's "Fashions and Costumes from Godey's Lady's Book" ) had no references to cotton clothing that I can recall. Is that because cotton was more typically used in working class clothing or underpinnings rather than in upper-class/high fashion clothing, or is it a more regional thing where cotton would figure more in American fashions than in European? Also, my understanding is that Godey's toned down their European fashions for American consumption (please correct me if I'm mistaken). -Jill > -Poster: Joan M Jurancich > > > Most of the time in the 19th century references, "cloth" means woolen > cloth. > Cottons, linens and silks were typically specifically named. > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 18:39:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01386 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:39:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA03651; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:38:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA06333 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:42:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.worldaccessnet.com (X44XzvcldRgb6zsBMuJicuQytO8RZRFz@worldaccessnet.com [206.190.139.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id QAA06327 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:42:33 -0700 (MST) Received: by vortex.worldaccessnet.com id m108utH-000dUOC; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:42:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail3.2.0.91#4) Received: from max1-27.worldaccessnet.com(209.17.80.219), claiming to be "worldaccessnet.com" via SMTP by worldaccessnet.com, id smtpdAAAa002RI; Fri Feb 5 15:42:22 1999 Message-ID: <36BB7414.2591B678@worldaccessnet.com> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 14:43:32 -0800 From: Sidne Kneeland X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com, hhdunlap@email.msn.com Subject: Re: H-COST: how to - cummerbund for "smallish" boy References: <000801be4f8f$b2c49d60$ba14ffd0@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sidne Kneeland Greetings -- Thanks, that helps a lot! :) SK _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 18:44:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01405 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:44:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA04358; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:44:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA07187 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:48:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA07171 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:48:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.210.111] (ell113.acadia.net [205.217.218.97]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA25630 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:48:05 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:48:15 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: Antique textile fair in Manchester Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> This is an annual event, but I do not know if they have a website. It's usually well-advertised, and announced in the Costume Society newsletter. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 18:45:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01412 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:45:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA04515; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:44:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA07298 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:48:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA07284 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:48:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.210.111] (ell113.acadia.net [205.217.218.97]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA25730 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:48:30 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:48:48 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: Re: another question like "cloth" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> There really isn't , any more than there is a default cotton or wool fabric. Silk is the material, but you need to identify more than just that. Satin is one particular weave structure, which can be made with silk, wool or various synthetics. Ditto for velvets, taffetas, etc. How it's identified usually depends on the book (or author), and what they're identifying. If it's a plain tabby weave, they may not think it's necessary to identify it so (or they may not know or care.) Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 19:00:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01495 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:00:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA07217; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:00:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA09910 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:04:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id RAA09891 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:04:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 17883 invoked from network); 6 Feb 1999 00:07:53 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-208.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.208) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 6 Feb 1999 00:07:53 -0000 Message-ID: <36BBAC29.4783@mc.net> Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 18:42:49 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re:H-COST 100 - got it. References: <199902052309.QAA00364@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Got H-COST 100, thanks goes to Mary Mcguire. And to anyone else who looked to see if they had it. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 20:15:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA01928 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:15:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA16656; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:14:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA19341 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:18:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA19327 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:18:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.199.94]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id RAA14925; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:18:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id RAA09917; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:18:50 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAw2+v7dcM9zuIvy2zoNPQsk3+FggCFHb1vRt9QTlrAabi5FInF47mHU9q From: CDepner26@webtv.net (Harold Hensley) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:18:50 -0500 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Elizabethan Gloves Message-ID: <20335-36BB987A-952@mailtod-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: CDepner26@webtv.net (Harold Hensley) I'm looking for information on Elizabethan gloves. I have tried to find several books, however they are out of print, and virtually impossible to find. I need to know how they were cut and contructed. Melissa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 20:54:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA02216 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:54:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA21168; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:53:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA23251 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:57:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA23231 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:57:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2Q5WJ73; Fri, 05 Feb 1999 20:55:56 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Calashes - How to Line Message-ID: <19980920.233547.5351.1.kayherb@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-26 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 20:55:56 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" (kissing your feet!) Thanks, Kathleen! By any chance, do you remember whether there was a bow attached to the back? I've seen this, but it seems to me that it was a later affectation. Kay Herb kayherb@juno.com On Thu, 4 Feb 1999 22:02:33 EST Appin1@aol.com writes: > >-Poster: Appin1@aol.com > >I recently saw an authentic calash ( NOT a repro). It was lined as you >described and the channels were stitched through the two layers of >fabric, >then the reeds were inserted. It was lovely and in good condition. I >don't >remember any ruching. > >Kathleen Norvell > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 5 20:54:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA02221 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 20:54:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA21165; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:53:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA23243 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:57:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA23217 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:57:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2Q5WK4L; Fri, 05 Feb 1999 20:55:57 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: winter calash Message-ID: <19980920.233552.5351.5.kayherb@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 20:55:57 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" Deborah, Do you recall whether it was reeded as well as stuffed? Kay kayherb@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 6 00:27:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA03861 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:27:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA16971; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:23:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA09959 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:27:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA09944 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:27:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.117 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:27:08 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: 9th Century Dutch Costume Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:53:53 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be5192$0303ac40$7514ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Well, here is a Dutch historical museum website with the architecture of the 10 centuries. http://www.limburgsmuseum.ab-c.nl/presentaties/index.html There is a figure in this picture of the blow-up model of a farm building of the year 1000, which suggests a general costume sillouette for a farmer. My guess is that his wife would wear a woolen or linen peplos type garment over a shirt or chemise, similar to the Anglo-Saxon woman's costume of the 9th Century. I forget if I saw it in Dunlevy's or Tarrant's books. http://www.limburgsmuseum.ab-c.nl/collectie/maquettes/bleric k.htm Then again, with my luck, this means "before Christ." Can Henk help us out? Also, are you looking for upper, middle, or lower class? Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 6 00:32:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA03880 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:32:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA17017; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:23:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA09979 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:27:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA09971 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:27:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.117 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:27:15 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Medieval Cloak Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:00:14 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be5192$0a7271a0$7514ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" For the beginner, the medieval cloak is a nice starting project. You can make it of a square or rectangle pinned about the shoulders, a half-circle (with or without a small half circle removed for the neck), or circular piece of fabric with a small hole cut out for the head, slit up the middle of the front and pinned or tied. Here is WebPages with simple layout for a half-circle cloak: http://www.algonet.se/~bjornrud/clothes.html. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 6 00:41:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA03911 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:41:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA18891; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:40:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA11084 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA11071 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 22:44:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.31.129 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:44:29 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:48:06 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be5194$71ecb320$7514ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <36BB7C2E.6E766F4D@vaxxine.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" It was me, and thanks, Sheridan. Those ladies 1700-1730 had too much time on their hands, or infinite amounts of money to pay quilters. No Websurfing to keep them amused, that's for sure. But I'd better go find it and see what I 'm up against. I'm hoping that someone among the volunteers who keep the house going will take this on after I pounce it out. Or maybe I'll do 3 or 4 square feet and drape it half-finished in the house like its inhabitant tossed down her work to receive a visitor. We'll find a way.... Thanks! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sheridan Alder Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 6:18 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 -Poster: Sheridan Alder I have a vague memory that someone asked for a source for early 18th century quilted petticoat patterns recently. Both a whole cloth quilt and a petticoat of c. 1700-1730 are illustrated on pages 20-21 in the following: "Philadelphia: Three Centuries of American Art. Philadelphia Museum of Art, 1990. 0-87633-016-2 Found this in a remainder bin in Toronto, and includes a fair number of garments, as well as textiles, samplers and paintings which illustrate costume. Anyone who wants to recreate this item has more skill and patience than I am ever likely to possess! Sheridan Alder ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 6 15:19:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12873 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:19:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA14572; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:18:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA05072 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:23:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA05065 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:23:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.120 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:22:44 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Elizabethan Gloves Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:26:47 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be520f$1d775720$7814ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" There's no one cookbook method for making Elizabethan gloves, as the geographical region of their origin, social class, purpose for wear, and gender of the wearer must be specified, in order to narrow down the multitude of choices. There is no substitute for looking at Elizabethan gloves in portraits, and I trust you have access to such materials on the Web or in books. If you don't let the List know, and we can direct you to those references. Gloves were decorated in a variety of ways, including embroidery. If you need references to embroidery patterns of the period, also please write back. Regarding construction, start with these two WebPages: 1000 ~GLOVES HOW TO MAKE A PAIR OF GLOVES, ONE PAIR AT A TIME Book list, According to ed. Leonid Tarassuk and Claude Blair: Under "Gauntlets" Plate gauntlets replaced chain mail gauntlets worn over leather gloves. "In fact the oldest ... http://www.io.com/~ches/gloves.html 500 ~Stefan's Florilegium: Gloves, making gloves. Edited by Mark S. Harris gloves-msg ...)gloves-msg - 6/29/98 Gloves. making gloves. NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent ... http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/rialto/gloves-msg.html Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 6 15:39:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12978 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:39:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA16961; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:38:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA06604 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:43:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA06593 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 13:43:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port045.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.45]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id VAA10557 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:43:04 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36BBC909.FC99E662@ndh.net> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 05:46:02 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Virtual Exhibit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef Hello Lisa and others! I think the idea of a virtual costume exhibit is excellent! I own a CD-ROM that features some historical costumes out of an Italian museum and one can look at them from all angles and enlarge certain areas. This is very interesting and helpful for stydying the look and one can show many different pieces online. Unfortunately it would be quite a deal to send some of my pieces (vintage) over to the States to get them photographed and back again, so I can`t easily provide help. But I`m looking forward to seeing this idea realized. In my opinion the online museum should give an overview of fashion history, it would be most interesting if one can see one or two typical items of a period, that would be more appealing to me than seeing many garments of one period. What do you think? Good luck with the work! Diana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 6 17:56:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA13470 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 17:56:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA02127; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:55:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA17746 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:00:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA17740 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:00:37 -0700 (MST) From: AliaClaire@aol.com Received: from AliaClaire@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id SLEEa04795 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 18:00:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1a746c0b.36bcc972@aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 18:00:02 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan Gloves Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com In a message dated 2/6/99 3:23:30 PM EST, hhdunlap@email.msn.com writes: > If you need > references to embroidery patterns of the period, also please > write back. Oh!!!!! I'm not making any gloves, but I would be VERY interested in some embroidery patterns. Everything I have right now is 18th or 19th century. Thank you! -Alison (who embroiders at speech tournaments, but that's about all anymore) Stacy AliaClaire@aol.com Canton, Ohio _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 6 20:27:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA14047 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:27:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA17306; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 18:26:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA29749 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 18:31:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA29737 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 18:31:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.199.94]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id RAA07693; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 17:31:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id RAA00856; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 17:31:25 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhRCDSMygaPdeN7a80UCJ/cF0bZw7AIVAIUsLoOF9y2JLFjVjbgHeDfjU/OC From: CDepner26@webtv.net (Harold Hensley) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:31:25 -0500 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan Gloves Message-ID: <4857-36BCECED-1393@mailtod-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: "Hope H. Dunlap" 's message of Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:26:47 -0500 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: CDepner26@webtv.net (Harold Hensley) I could use information on embroidery, as well as, any sources of reference anyone can provide me with. Thank you Melissa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 6 20:34:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA14072 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:34:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA18111; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 18:33:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA00472 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 18:38:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA00466 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 18:38:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.199.94]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id RAA25193; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 17:38:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id RAA02268; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 17:38:17 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAgEzmo1oBJrgIQ7rhgW/ZVd/GZ9kCFCvXi0I7NrPxDITmyYGs5A9R/q7w From: CDepner26@webtv.net (Harold Hensley) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:38:17 -0500 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan Gloves Message-ID: <4864-36BCEE89-771@mailtod-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: "Hope H. Dunlap" 's message of Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:26:47 -0500 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: CDepner26@webtv.net (Harold Hensley) I failed to mention in my previous e-mails, that the gloves I would like to make are something similar to the ones presented to Queen Elizabeth on her visit to Oxford in 1566.(pictured in Accessories of Dress p.361) Melissa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 6 20:49:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA14132 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:49:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA20007; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 18:48:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA01538 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 18:53:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA01533 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 18:53:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.120 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 17:53:03 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Elizabethan Embroidery and Gloves Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:30:01 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be523d$43f0f4a0$7814ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <1a746c0b.36bcc972@aol.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" One of our List members is currently offering a reprint of Sibmacher's Modelbuch (pattern book) of 1597 which is a major source of embroidery patterns for the period. Dover published a reprint of the 1604 Sibmacher's Modelbuch some time back. The books show embroidery patterns and motifs for a number of different types of garments and furnishings, and some of the patterns are similar to those on glove gauntlets I've seen in Elizabethan portraits. The List member offering the 1597 version is Kathryn Newell, terms below, per her recent post to me, and I'm buying a copy for myself, having only seen a page or two here and there in secondary references, which indicate this is THE reference for the period. There are 26 pages of charts (27 black and white patterns, 28 color patterns) plus 6 pages of introductory text and annotated bibliography for a total of 32 pages, saddle stitched, with a color cover. Cost: $10.00 plus $3.50 shipping & handling (Priority Mail). VALENTINE's SPECIAL! Pre order and shipping is free! Send checks, made payable to "Kathryn Newell", before February 14 to: Kathryn Newell 100 Mt.Arlington Blvd. Landing, NJ 07850 If you are going to CostumeCon you can pick up your copy there and I will autograph your copy. Otherwise I will autograph and mail them when I return. (If you are SCA please indicate which name you'd like me to inscribe it to.) After February 14, please include s& h and send your checks, made payable to "Mary Denise Smith" to my publisher/distributor, Mary Denise Smith (publisher and editor of "Costume and Dressmaker" magazine: Mary Denise Smith 4500 19th Street, #298 Boulder, CO 80304 Mary Denise is also my distributor. She will be making arrangements with merchants like Hedgehog Handworks, Poison Pen Press, etc. This is the end on Kathryn's message. Blackwork Embroidery patterns are available on the Web at: http://www.pacificnet.net/~pmarmor/bwarch.html Crewel stitches, many of which were used in Elizabethan and Jacobean hangings and costume, are available to learn at: http:www.anu.edu.au/english/jems/sharon/stitchdictionarycont ents.html Don't forget to use http://www.Metacrawler.com for best results for your further Websearches. A beautiful, and exquisitely researched and illustrated secondary reference for English embroidery is Thomasina Beck's overview book, Beck, Thomasina. The Embroiderer's Story, Needlework from the Renaissance to the Present Day, 1995 Devon: UK: David & Charles, Brunel House, Newton Abbott, Devon, ISBN 0 7153 0238 8 which includes many photographs of period embroideries now in museums. It is a fantastic annotated reference to period sourcebooks which influenced or disseminated period embroidery patterns as well, which should be helpful to you in your further research. There is at least one illustration of embroidered gloves in her book. And also a few thumbnails of cutwork patterns from the 1597 Sibmacher's Modelbuch of the sort which were used on Elizabethan ruffs, cuffs, etc. I don't do embroidery very much, but I do love to look at it and learn about it. The most recent embroidery piece I did took an hour, used foam cut from the center of a supermarket meat tray for the "fabric," various-colored remnant yarns, and a huge darning needle---for a "card" for my former kindergarten teacher's 88th birthday. (I graduated 43 years ago, by the way.) It incorporated some of the crewel stitches I saw on the Stitch Dictionary WebPages. I would like to think that veteran Georgian embroiderer, paper flower crafter, and letter writer, Mrs. Mary Granville Pendarves Delany, would have approved .... Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of AliaClaire@aol.com Sent: Saturday, February 06, 1999 6:00 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan Gloves -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com In a message dated 2/6/99 3:23:30 PM EST, hhdunlap@email.msn.com writes: > If you need > references to embroidery patterns of the period, also please > write back. Oh!!!!! I'm not making any gloves, but I would be VERY interested in some embroidery patterns. Everything I have right now is 18th or 19th century. Thank you! -Alison (who embroiders at speech tournaments, but that's about all anymore) Stacy AliaClaire@aol.com Canton, Ohio ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 6 22:53:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14590 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:53:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA04240; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:52:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA09130 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:57:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA09117 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 20:56:58 -0700 (MST) From: Tigershado@aol.com Received: from Tigershado@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 4DTIa07017 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:55:44 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:55:44 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST:Re: aglets/ Firemountain Gems Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Tigershado@aol.com I just dug out one of my old catalogs. Apparently you can order less than $50, but they charge you $5 if you do. We don't usually have a problem spending $50. Hmm, think it's about time for another order. ;) Barbara Corley Tigershado@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 00:33:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA15568 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 00:33:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA15013; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:32:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA14965 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:37:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA14950 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:37:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-191.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.191]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA22518 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 00:36:58 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990206150419.00a1b9d0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 15:04:19 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan tall hat In-Reply-To: <000a01be4efd$b2e691a0$26d67ad1@andrea.gideon> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >>The brim should be relatively small in relation to the crown...a brim >>width of 1-1 1/2 inches is all that you need. >This could be my problem. Ny instructions say to start with a brim of 4 >inches, then fiddle with it until you like it. I've been triming it by 1/2 >inches, but now i'll cut a lot more off. Also, are you making the "head hole" round or oval? If you look at most of them in Arnold they are all *perfectly* round. I know this seems strange because most of us don't have round heads but, it kind of stretches to fit. I did mine that way and really does work only next time I have to remember to take into account the fact that the fabric will take up space and therefore makes the inner diameter of brim smaller. :) >How tall should the side be? I've cut the brim down and it looks better, >but still not right. At this moment the sides are about 5 inches, down from >the 6 inches that the instructions state. >Andrea Mine is about 5 or 6 inches tall and I'm happy with that (I don't need to be any taller!) but it's more or less personal preference. I've seen some portraits which have hats that appear to be over a foot tall. Also I've tapered the crown slightly in such a way that if there is no decoration on the hat, there is nothing which is obviously "front" or "back". Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 00:33:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA15570 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 00:33:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA15034; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:32:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA14971 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:37:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA14957 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:37:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-191.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.191]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA22522 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 00:36:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990206203150.00a1b760@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 20:31:50 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Favourite Costumes In-Reply-To: <254487275A@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> References: <199902022059.NAA27046@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >What are your favourite costumes or periods in historical dress? If >you have a favourite period, do you have a special need for the >costumes, e.g. some certain period reenactment? My favorite is definitely 16th century (I'm SCA). However, I've always had a secret yearning to wear a watteau (sack/saque-back) gown and a polonaise with huge panniers. Anyone know a group in the Toronto area where I could wear something like those? Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 00:36:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA15585 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 00:36:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA15000; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:32:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA14956 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:37:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA14937 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:36:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-191.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.191]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA22507 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 00:36:55 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990205171432.00a1a6a0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 17:14:32 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: RE: H-COST: Glass Aglets In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings Gawain, >Believe it or not, it's pretty easy. :) And once again, thank all of you >for the references!!!! My friend will be ecstatic. Does this mean that your friend has a source for them?! Where can I get some? Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 00:37:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA15592 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 00:37:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA15619; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:37:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA15276 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:41:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA15268 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:41:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.120 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:41:22 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Ribbons of Childhood Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 00:24:15 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be525d$2be95260$7814ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Following up the discussion of a month ago or so, I came across the sources of 17th century ribbons of childhood. They are shown in Tortola and Eubank's *A Survey of Historic Costume,* and include a painting in the Cleveland Museum of Art by Mathieu de Nain entitled *Dance of the Boys and Girls* on page 160, and an extant small child's dress in the Smithsonian Institution dated "after 1690" on page 161. The ribbons are about 3-4" wide and sewn into the rear armscythe seam, as there is no shoulder seam on these dresses. In the case of the extant costume at the Smithsonian Institution, the ribbons appear to start at the front cuff of the child's 3/4 length sleeves, run up the sleeves as a trim, then the edges are caught in the armsythe seam starting at the top of the shoulder forming wings for about 3-4", then fall loose down the back to within 5" of the floor. They appear to be doubled fabric, so they can fall with no wrong side visible, and they are trimmed trimmed with 4-5 rows of very narrow braid around the edges, at least where they fall down the child's back. The braid may cover the entire surface where the ribbons lay on the sleeve fronts, it's hard to tell precisely from these photographs. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 00:38:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA15599 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 00:38:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA15639; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:37:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA15299 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA15281 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:41:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.120 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:41:27 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Cloaks Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 00:45:44 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be525d$2f7b52c0$7814ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/rialto/cloaks-msg.html Lots of references, pattern sources, and sewing tips from SCA members for medieval cloaks. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 01:03:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA15930 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 01:03:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA18540; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 23:02:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA16628 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 23:07:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA16623 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 23:07:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.12 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 22:06:51 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Eighteenth Century Velvet Nightcap Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 01:10:04 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be5260$baa89120$0c14ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Can anyone explain to me how to draft a pattern for the big floppy velvet nightcap which English and American men wore at home instead of their wigs in 18th Century Georgian times? Not the snug embroidered linen cap, but the alternative floppy velvet beret one you see on men dressed in banyans (bathrobes) in portraits. Were they lined in silk? I need to undersand how to put the three-dimensional thing together from flat cloth. Some references call it a nightcap or turban, sometimes tasselled. Thanks for help! Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 07:42:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA23114 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 07:42:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA08693; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 05:40:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA00971 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 05:45:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA00966 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 05:45:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from [194.222.199.37] (helo=montgomerie.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.11 #1) id 109Tar-000691-00; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:45:46 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:29:47 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: hhdunlap@email.msn.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: Posture In-Reply-To: <99020403160607.07702@weba3.iname.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id HAA23114 Status: O -Poster: Jean Waddie In message <99020403160607.07702@weba3.iname.net>, sue- historian@writeme.com writes > >-Poster: sue-historian@writeme.com > >Hope > >You kindly wrote in response to my posting about posture > >…"Upper-class children were put into “stays” from the age of 2-4 on. On top of >that, those whose posture wasn’t turning out right were “boarded,” i.e. a shaped >board bound onto their backs for 3-4 hours per day or more. " > >Was this the backboard that was like a narrow bed that the poor child had to lie >on, or was it actually "worn". > >Also, how do you acquire the splayed feet posture, it is very difficult >today.(I have tried to walk with toes outwards!) I notice all 18and 19C >portraits show feet well turned out. > >Sue Well, you go to ballet class from the age of 3! If you are trying to do it for the first time as an adult, it probably is difficult. Remember that it is not turned out from the ankle, but from the hip - your knees should point the same way as your toes. Sit or lie down and let your feet fall outwards, and you'll get the feel of it. Jean -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 08:15:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA23236 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 08:15:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA09933; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 06:14:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA02354 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 06:19:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id GAA02349 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 06:19:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 29071 invoked from network); 7 Feb 1999 13:23:19 -0000 Received: from tntmodem1-59.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.133.59) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 1999 13:23:19 -0000 Message-ID: <36BDB819.A50@mc.net> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 07:58:17 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Hallowe'en Trade show in Rosemont, IL References: <199902070153.SAA01547@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Could some kind soul tell me the date of the show this year? Thanks Carol Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 09:29:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA23498 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:29:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA13233; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 07:28:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA05458 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 07:33:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA05453 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 07:33:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.85] (ell101.acadia.net [205.217.218.85]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA19061 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:32:57 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:33:08 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: winter calash Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> No, no reeds, just stuffing. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 13:45:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24438 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:45:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA06062; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:44:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA22807 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:49:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA22776 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:49:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.113] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 109ZGe-0005pG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 10:49:17 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990206114149.00c7b820@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990206114149.00c7b820@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 11:43:22 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Fabric Question In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19990204181503.2ba734e2@mail2.quiknet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>While perusing one of my books that has illustrations from Godey's, I >>noticed that when the clothing is being described sometimes the term "cloth" >>is used seemingly to indicate the type of fabric being used. What fabric do >>they mean? The only one I can think of that may be appropriate is cotton, >>but if that's it, why didn't they call it just that? >> >>-Jill > >Most of the time in the 19th century references, "cloth" means woolen cloth. >Cottons, linens and silks were typically specifically named. So what do they mean when they say 'stuff'? Not as in stuffing, as in 'stuffs'. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 13:45:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24437 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:45:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA06026; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:44:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA22805 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:49:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA22755 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:49:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.113] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 109ZGa-0005pG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 10:49:13 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990206113537.00c712a0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990206113537.00c712a0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 11:36:42 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: What to wear at fancy dress balls In-Reply-To: <199902050041.LAA23220@kryptonite.sge.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > There seem to be some people on this list that are interested in >information about clothing of the 1890's > Possibly in a professional capacity > > I have just received a catalogue from a book seller with a book >that may be of interest to on such as these > > It is > Fancy dress described or (What to wear at fancy dress balls) by >Ardern Holt Pub by Debenham and Freebody > 6th edit dated at 1890 decribed as having several hundreds oif >suggestions described and illustrated in colour and monochrome including >a lady dressed as a hornet with a wasp waist I think I have seen a copy of this book. I remember the wasp. It was so pricey a number of years ago that I didn't buy it then. Lucky you. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 13:45:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24444 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:45:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA06036; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:44:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA22798 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:49:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA22743 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:49:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.113] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 109ZGZ-0005pG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 10:49:11 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990206095934.00b95ed0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990206095934.00b95ed0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 10:10:32 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: patterns and pattern making In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I'm fairly new to costume making, though I've sewn for years. Everyone >seems to be talking about making garments from pictures. How do you go >about making patterns from pictures? Can anyone recommend a good book to >help me learn the skill? Also, where is a good place to look for ready made >historical patterns? Specifically, a friend has asked me to make a Medieval >cloak for him. > >Suggestions for a newbie would be appreciated! I'm very visual, so my suggestions may not match anyone else's, but here goes: When I look at a costume in a picture I analyze it in terms of the surfaces of 3-D shapes. Sometimes I make paper mockups to double check the shapes I think I am seeing. Then I drape a pattern (actually I tell my draping partner how I want it draped), often starting from a tracing of a pattern I know is roughly the same shape. I use a tracing so the original doesn't get messed up. I wear correct period underpinnings during the draping process so the fit will be period. I never use measurement-based pattern-making processes because I can't wrap my right-dominated brain around them. I am able to copy patterns like those from the Janet Arnold books, but then I drape the result rather than using any mathematical process to correct for my size and proportions. The general shapes and specific fitting standards vary so much from period to period - and I do several - that this makes more sense to me. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 13:45:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24448 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:45:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA06042; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:44:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA22806 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:49:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA22740 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:49:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.113] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 109ZGX-0005pG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 10:49:09 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990206095431.00c82650@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990206095431.00c82650@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 09:55:23 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST - Bronzino's "Lady with a Puppy" In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > In Bronzino's "Portrait of a Lady with a Puppy", the lady in >question is wearing a very beautiful chemise/shirt/whatever >with what appears on close examination to be smocking/ >proto-smocking on the collar area, with patterns of crosses, >etc, worked into the folds. Does anyone have any idea how >this was done? Anybody done it? I have seven yards of >very dainty silk I've been hoarding for just such a project..... > >All Health, and apologies to anyone who had to read the same > Where can we see a picture of this? Is it in some costume book? Can you post it somewhere we can get to? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 14:19:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA24564 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 14:19:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA09592; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:18:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA25577 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:23:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.gte.net (smtp1.gte.net [207.115.153.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA25569 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:23:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from gte.net (1Cust21.tnt4.everett2.wa.da.uu.net [153.36.5.21]) by smtp1.gte.net with ESMTP id NAA24397 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:23:28 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36BDE797.4C876F68@gte.net> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 11:20:55 -0800 From: Lady Eleanor X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST - Bronzino's "Lady with a Puppy" References: <4.1.19990206095431.00c82650@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lady Eleanor Here's a link: http://metalab.unc.edu/cjackson/bronzino/index.html with a copy of the portrait in question. Enjoy! YIS, Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > > In Bronzino's "Portrait of a Lady with a Puppy", the lady in > >question is wearing a very beautiful chemise/shirt/whatever > >with what appears on close examination to be smocking/ > >proto-smocking on the collar area, with patterns of crosses, > >etc, worked into the folds. Does anyone have any idea how > >this was done? Anybody done it? I have seven yards of > >very dainty silk I've been hoarding for just such a project..... > > > >All Health, and apologies to anyone who had to read the same > > > > Where can we see a picture of this? Is it in some costume book? Can you > post it somewhere we can get to? > > Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 15:02:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24750 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:02:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA14829; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:01:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA29163 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:06:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from prontomail10.prontomail.com (prontomail10.prontomail.com [209.185.149.110]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA29154 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:06:03 -0700 (MST) X-Internal-ID: 36BCE37A0000100D Received: from suew (209.185.149.202) by prontomail10.prontomail.com (NPlex 2.0.119) for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:58:59 +0000 From: "Sue W" Message-Id: <199902071203050@suew.excite.co.uk> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:04:48 +0000 X-Priority: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Posture - backboards X-Mailer: Web Based Pronto Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id PAA24750 Status: O -Poster: "Sue W" Re backboards and posture- I have found references to three distinct types - but I don’t know how long they were used each day, or the comparative merits. The last two sound pretty wretched to me. There are examples in UK museums. - the "bed" this was simply a board that had the child lying as if on a bed. - the two handled. This as the heart shaped board mentioned in one posting. It had two handles and the wearer (victim ?) held it across their back by means of the handles each side. The board had the advantage over a broomstick in that it forced the shoulder blades flat. -the triangle - this was, I think the most difficult (painful?). It was a triangular board strapped on to the shoulders. The downward pointing apex had a strap at waist level, the other two corners had straps for each shoulder. Not only were the shoulders pulled back back the spine above the waist immobilised. "Collars" as mentioned earlier were horrid devices attached to this type of backboard to stop the poor girl "poking her head" - most unladylike ! Overall these backboards must have been effective, they were used throughout the 18 & 19 centuries. Sue W This E-mail brought to you by Excite's free E-mail service. Get your own E-mail address at http://www.excite.co.uk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 15:05:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24766 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:05:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA15464; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:04:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA29437 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:09:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA29428 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:09:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (pool011-max9.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.231.161]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17059 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:09:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36BDF44C.F372656A@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 12:15:09 -0800 From: Scott Hulett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST - Bronzino's "Lady with a Puppy" References: <4.1.19990206095431.00c82650@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------89F73C60B551279C98296E3F" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Scott Hulett --------------89F73C60B551279C98296E3F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carolyn, I've seen and made this sort of shirt. It is very simple to make though not easy and looks beautiful when finished. There is a similar shirt on a woman by Bronzino on pg 53 of Lives of the Courtesan by Lynne Lawner "Protrait of Laura Battiferri". She wears this same sort of shirt though with less embroidery. I will attempt to explain though if you would like, I will diagram and fax or mail instructions to you. Seven yards is plenty and your fabric weight sounds right. The shirt is basically a cylinder that is gather/smocked into a neck band. I used a beautiful white trim 'cause I don't have patience for embroidery, but smocking would work great. First, you will need to decide on your measurements. Here are mine: 1.5" for ruffle 1.5" for neck band 5" for shoulder 13" for arm hole(remember, when you cut the arm hole, it will really be 26 inches) 34" for length. Mark this on pattern paper going down the long side. If you fabric is 45" wide it will be less full, if it is 54" or 60" it will be really full 'cause your going to add all these together and that is the length of your tube which will be gathered/smocked into the neck. Finish the top edge of your fabric,after you cut the length, with lace or a rolled edge. I like bobbin lace, it looks very rennaisance. Lay the fabric out with the selvedges together in the middle, and the edges should be folds. This will look like a long tube with lace at the top. Now get your measurements out and start marking on the outside edge/fold. >From the top of the ruffle to the top of the neck band/smocking >From the top of the neckband to the bottom of the neckband/smocking >From the bottom of the neck band/smocking to the point of the shoulder >From the point of the soulder to the bottom of the arm hole* *1/2 of the arm hole, should be around 13 inches on average* >From the bottom of the arm hole to the length you desire (for smocking)(may by substituted with trim) Mark the fabric where you are going to smock at your measurement for the neck band. If the selveges look good enough to be your opening, just leave them, or if not, finish the selvedges, but only enough to make the shirt opening, say 9 inches including the ruffle, neckband and opening. Smock it. Cut the 13" arm slit.(cut it straight down the fold) Cut a small triangular piece to sew into the top of the arm hole to make it easier to gather into, 2x2x2". Sew in triangular piece.(Bottom will be a straight side, two points sew into the top corner of the sleeve) Gather a rectanglar sleeve into the arm hole (arm length by twice total arm hole) Gather wrists into band or smock or drawstring. Sew the tube up the front from the bottom to the finished opening. Have someone mark a nice hem for you. Hem. Croche on some ties or sew on some gross grain at the collar for ties. Hope this helps. If I've missed a step, I'm sure one of you will catch and refine it. Cheers, jd Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > > In Bronzino's "Portrait of a Lady with a Puppy", the lady in > >question is wearing a very beautiful chemise/shirt/whatever > >with what appears on close examination to be smocking/ > >proto-smocking on the collar area, with patterns of crosses, > >etc, worked into the folds. Does anyone have any idea how > >this was done? Anybody done it? I have seven yards of > >very dainty silk I've been hoarding for just such a project..... > > > >All Health, and apologies to anyone who had to read the same > > > > Where can we see a picture of this? Is it in some costume book? Can you > post it somewhere we can get to? > > Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME --------------89F73C60B551279C98296E3F Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carolyn,
    I've seen and made this sort of shirt. It is very simple to make though not easy and looks beautiful when finished. There is a similar shirt on a woman by Bronzino on pg 53 of Lives of the Courtesan by Lynne Lawner "Protrait of Laura Battiferri". She wears this same sort of shirt though with less embroidery. I will attempt to explain though if you would like, I will diagram and fax or mail instructions to you.

Seven yards is plenty and your fabric weight sounds right. The shirt is basically a cylinder that is gather/smocked into a neck band. I used a beautiful white trim 'cause I don't have patience for embroidery, but smocking would work great. 

First,  you will need to decide on your measurements. Here are mine:
1.5" for ruffle
1.5" for neck band
5" for shoulder
13" for arm hole(remember, when you cut the arm hole, it will really be 26 inches)
34" for length.
Mark this on pattern paper going down the long side.  If you fabric is 45" wide it will be less full, if it is 54" or 60" it will be really full 'cause your going to add all these together and that is the length of your tube which will be gathered/smocked into the neck.

Finish the top edge of your fabric,after you cut the length, with lace or a rolled edge. I like bobbin lace, it looks very rennaisance.
Lay the fabric out with the selvedges together in the middle, and the edges should be folds.
This will look like a long tube with lace at the top.
Now get your measurements out and  start marking on the outside edge/fold.
From the top of the ruffle to the top of the neck band/smocking<mark>
From the top of the neckband to the bottom of the neckband/smocking<mark>
From the bottom of the neck band/smocking to the point of the shoulder<mark>
From the point of the soulder to the bottom of the arm hole*<mark>
*1/2 of the arm hole, should be around 13 inches on average*
From the bottom of the arm hole to the length you desire<mark>
(for smocking)(may by substituted with trim)
Mark the fabric where you are going to smock at your measurement for the neck band.
If the selveges look good enough to be your opening, just leave them, or if not, finish the selvedges, but only enough to make the shirt opening, say 9 inches including the ruffle, neckband and opening.
Smock it.
Cut the 13" arm slit.(cut it straight down the fold)
Cut a small triangular piece to sew into the top of the arm hole to make it easier to gather into, 2x2x2".
Sew in triangular piece.(Bottom will be a straight side, two points sew into the top corner of the sleeve)
Gather a rectanglar sleeve  into the arm hole (arm length by twice total arm hole)
Gather wrists into band or smock or drawstring.
Sew the tube up the front from the bottom to the finished opening.
Have someone mark a nice hem for you.
Hem.
Croche on some ties or sew on some gross grain at the collar for ties.
Hope this helps. If I've missed a step, I'm sure one of you will catch and refine it.
Cheers, jd

Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote:

-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows <kayta@slip.net>

>    In Bronzino's "Portrait of a Lady with a Puppy", the lady in
>question is wearing a very beautiful chemise/shirt/whatever
>with what appears on close examination to be smocking/
>proto-smocking on the collar area, with patterns of crosses,
>etc, worked into the folds.  Does anyone have any idea how
>this was done?  Anybody done it?  I have seven yards of
>very dainty silk I've been hoarding for just such a project.....
>
>All Health, and apologies to anyone who had to read the same
>

Where can we see a picture of this?  Is it in some costume book?  Can you
post it somewhere we can get to?

Kayta
     ////.\\\
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     * )   (((((
  /----\   /---\

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 To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com
 with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME

--------------89F73C60B551279C98296E3F-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 15:09:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24788 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:09:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA15914; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:08:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA29784 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:13:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA29777 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:13:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from unknown (vcn5.pm3-4.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.240.174]) by sight.vcn.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 698F3F5196; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:13:37 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990206095431.00c82650@pop.slip.net> References: Conversation with last message <4.1.19990206095431.00c82650@pop.slip.net> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST - Bronzino's "Lady with a Puppy" Date: Sun, 07 Feb 99 14:18:05 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id PAA24788 Status: O -Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" She (and her little dog Toto, too...) are on the Net at http://metalab.unc.edu/cfga/bronzino/p-bronzino7.htm but at least on my monitor the pic isn't clear enough to show the detail on the garment in question...sigh. As soon as I can make it back to the library, I'll post the particulars of the book I found her in...... Liadain ---------- > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > > > In Bronzino's "Portrait of a Lady with a Puppy", the lady in > >question is wearing a very beautiful chemise/shirt/whatever > >with what appears on close examination to be smocking/ > >proto-smocking on the collar area, with patterns of crosses, > >etc, worked into the folds. Does anyone have any idea how > >this was done? Anybody done it? I have seven yards of > >very dainty silk I've been hoarding for just such a project..... > > > >All Health, and apologies to anyone who had to read the same > > > > Where can we see a picture of this? Is it in some costume book? Can you > post it somewhere we can get to? > > > Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 15:27:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24875 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:27:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA18139; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:26:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA01180 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:31:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA01175 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:31:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (pool013-max7.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.231.63]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA06747 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:31:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36BDF95A.15F18A14@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 12:36:43 -0800 From: Scott Hulett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST - Bronzino's "Lady with a Puppy" References: <4.1.19990206095431.00c82650@pop.slip.net> <36BDE797.4C876F68@gte.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Scott Hulett Abject appologies. Just looked at portrait. Mine will work if you replace the ruffle directions with a flat shirt style collar. Other wise, I think it would work. Cheers, jd Lady Eleanor wrote: > -Poster: Lady Eleanor > > Here's a link: > > http://metalab.unc.edu/cjackson/bronzino/index.html > > with a copy of the portrait in question. Enjoy! > > YIS, > Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre > > Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > > > > In Bronzino's "Portrait of a Lady with a Puppy", the lady in > > >question is wearing a very beautiful chemise/shirt/whatever > > >with what appears on close examination to be smocking/ > > >proto-smocking on the collar area, with patterns of crosses, > > >etc, worked into the folds. Does anyone have any idea how > > >this was done? Anybody done it? I have seven yards of > > >very dainty silk I've been hoarding for just such a project..... > > > > > >All Health, and apologies to anyone who had to read the same > > > > > > > Where can we see a picture of this? Is it in some costume book? Can you > > post it somewhere we can get to? > > > > Kayta > > ////.\\\ > > ////-@@\\\ > > (((( 7 ((( > > | -- )))) > > * ) ((((( > > /----\ /---\ > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 15:35:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24903 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:35:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA18764; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:33:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA01658 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:38:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA01653 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:38:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from gia-g (dialup335.serv.net [207.207.70.228]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA06477 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:38:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000401be52da$44a0f560$e446cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST - Bronzino's "Lady with a Puppy" Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:32:21 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Hullo! Thanks for posting the site URL! It's a wonderful one and I've just bookmarked it. You can see the portrait I used for the primary source to make the velvet dress I just told you all about at this site. Happy stitches! Gia/Giacinta costuming nut > >-Poster: Lady Eleanor > >Here's a link: > >http://metalab.unc.edu/cjackson/bronzino/index.html > >with a copy of the portrait in question. Enjoy! > >YIS, >Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 15:51:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24967 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:51:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA20378; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:50:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA03000 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:55:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA02994 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:55:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r3p19.directcon.net [206.170.184.118]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA22227 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:49:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:49:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902072049.MAA22227@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Posture - backboards Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >- the two handled. This as the heart shaped board mentioned in one posting. It had two handles and the wearer (victim ?) held it across their back by means of the handles each side. The board had the advantage over a broomstick in that it forced the shoulder blades flat. I just found the book that I remembered seeing the pictures in. It's called "Making Victorians: The Drummond Children's World 1827-1832" by Susan Lasdun, ISBN 0-575-03176-X. It contains several depictions of backboards, mostly with their young owners about to be punished for not using them. Poor things! And, I was mistaken about the straps. As Sue's post says, this device doesn't have them. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 16:36:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA25239 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 16:36:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA25992; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 14:34:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA06817 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 14:39:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.gte.net (smtp2.gte.net [207.115.153.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA06810 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 14:39:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from gte.net (1Cust217.tnt1.everett2.wa.da.uu.net [153.35.253.217]) by smtp2.gte.net with ESMTP id PAA15542 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:39:11 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36BE0767.459ED28E@gte.net> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 13:36:39 -0800 From: Lady Eleanor X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST - Bronzino's "Lady with a Puppy" References: <000401be52da$44a0f560$e446cfcf@gia-g> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lady Eleanor Greetings Lady Gia! Most welcome. (I assume that was directed toward me... :-) ...if not, please disregard). Aha! So THAT'S the one! Beautiful. It is a gorgeous gown you did Gia! I was fortunate enough to be at the event Lady Giacinta mentions. I loved that really pretty and unusual pearl and gold trim at the neck. Have never seen that before. Wish I had noted this particular portrait earlier. My purple velveteen Italian Ren...in a similar style, was inspired by Bronizo's portrait of Lucrezia Panciatichi, 1540, oil on wood, Galleria degli Uffizi, Florence, and probably could have benefitted from doing the cartidge pleating at the top and bottom of the pouffed sleeve...which I see is done in the "puppy portrait". Just in case anyone's interested...here's a link to the other Bronzino portrait...bottom of the page. http://metalab.unc.edu/cjackson/bronzino/index.html Ah well! Live and learn...and learn...and learn! ;-) My next Ital. Ren. will be better! Of course after I finish my 1590's Elizabethan (I should LIVE so long!), a 1650's Cavalier suit for a gentleman friend, an 11th c. German for another friend...a Norse Tunic, and various and sundry other items. *Sigh* Ahhhh to be independently wealthy, and have nothing better to do with one's time than sew historical costumes! Cheers all! Lady Eleanor Gia Gavino-Gattshall wrote: > > -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" > > Hullo! > > Thanks for posting the site URL! It's a wonderful one and I've just > bookmarked it. > > You can see the portrait I used for the primary source to make the velvet > dress I just told you all about at this site. > > Happy stitches! > > Gia/Giacinta > costuming nut > > > > >-Poster: Lady Eleanor > > > >Here's a link: > > > >http://metalab.unc.edu/cjackson/bronzino/index.html > > > >with a copy of the portrait in question. Enjoy! > > > >YIS, > >Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 16:38:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA25262 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 16:38:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA26492; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 14:37:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA07020 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 14:42:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.gte.net (smtp2.gte.net [207.115.153.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA07014 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 14:42:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from gte.net (1Cust217.tnt1.everett2.wa.da.uu.net [153.35.253.217]) by smtp2.gte.net with ESMTP id PAA11296 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:42:17 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36BE0821.F3791EEA@gte.net> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 13:39:45 -0800 From: Lady Eleanor X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST - Bronzino's "Lady with a Puppy" References: <4.1.19990206095431.00c82650@pop.slip.net> <36BDE797.4C876F68@gte.net> <36BDF95A.15F18A14@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lady Eleanor No need to apologize! Thanks for the directions!! I'm going to try this technique. Sounds good. By the bye...anybody know of any "smocking" sites on the web? I could probably figure it out on my own...but would rather have some details to start with. :-) In service, Lady Eleanor Scott Hulett wrote: > > -Poster: Scott Hulett > > Abject appologies. Just looked at portrait. Mine will work if you replace the > ruffle directions with a flat shirt style collar. Other wise, I think it would > work. > Cheers, jd > > Lady Eleanor wrote: > > > -Poster: Lady Eleanor > > > > Here's a link: > > > > http://metalab.unc.edu/cjackson/bronzino/index.html > > > > with a copy of the portrait in question. Enjoy! > > > > YIS, > > Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre > > > > Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > > > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > > > > > > In Bronzino's "Portrait of a Lady with a Puppy", the lady in > > > >question is wearing a very beautiful chemise/shirt/whatever > > > >with what appears on close examination to be smocking/ > > > >proto-smocking on the collar area, with patterns of crosses, > > > >etc, worked into the folds. Does anyone have any idea how > > > >this was done? Anybody done it? I have seven yards of > > > >very dainty silk I've been hoarding for just such a project..... > > > > > > > >All Health, and apologies to anyone who had to read the same > > > > > > > > > > Where can we see a picture of this? Is it in some costume book? Can you > > > post it somewhere we can get to? > > > > > > Kayta > > > ////.\\\ > > > ////-@@\\\ > > > (((( 7 ((( > > > | -- )))) > > > * ) ((((( > > > /----\ /---\ > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 19:27:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA26646 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:27:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA17512; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:26:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA23420 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:31:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA23413 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:31:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id LAA27972 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:01:15 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA28152; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:01:11 +1030 Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:01:10 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Costume Con and rust stains In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990203224956.00c686a0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > > > > >Rhubarb has oxalic acid in it....also a plant that grows here called > >'soursob'. It's reasonably poisonous when ingested..... > > There's a weed which grows in California called oxalis. It has clover-like > leaves and acid yellow flowers. Lots of oxalic acid there, and not > poisonous to eat (we used to chew on it as kids). It may stain green. > That sounds like what we call soursobs here. My info comes from my high school chemistry teacher who said that oxalic acid crystallises in the kidneys. I think you have to ingest a largish amount for it to do you serious harm (for instance he said you'd have to eat 20kgs of rhubarb *grin*), but of course, he could have been wrong. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 19:46:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA26724 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:46:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA19373; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:44:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA24826 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:49:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id RAA24821 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:49:41 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:49:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2603 invoked from network); 8 Feb 1999 00:44:54 -0000 Received: from 214.240.3-2.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.214) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 1999 00:44:54 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990207164936.2a671478@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Fabric Question Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 11:43 AM 02/06/1999 -0800, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >So what do they mean when they say 'stuff'? Not as in stuffing, as in >'stuffs'. > > >Kayta According to my ever-present copy of "Textiles in America 1650-1870" by Florence Montgomery, pages 353-354: STUFF A general term for worsted cloths. In 1833 Perkins listed the following kinds: Stuff--is twilled or plain, is made of common wool, and may be had of black and very colour. Merino--is nothing more than a superior stuff, in the ordinary qualities, but in the higher walks they are splendid goods, in the production of which the French bear the palm,-approximating as they do to the imitation of cashmere. ... ______________________________________ Other types of "stuffs" listed in this definition (with paragraphs describing each of them) are Shalloons; Lastings, Prunella, and Florentine; Tammies; Calimancoes; Moreens; Camblets; and Plaids. Hope this helps, Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 21:14:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA27157 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:14:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA01370; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:12:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA02785 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:18:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA02770 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:17:55 -0700 (MST) From: PiranhaBB@aol.com Received: from PiranhaBB@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id VQUGa06037 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:15:29 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <9719221b.36be48c1@aol.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:15:29 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: what kind of lace Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: PiranhaBB@aol.com Checking out a Virtual Museum, I ran across this portrait.... http://www.hol.gr/cgfa/g/p-gheeraerts2-1.htm What kind of lace is that on the table at her left hand? Is it lace at all? Best regards, Lisa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 21:38:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA27310 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:38:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA04697; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:36:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA04881 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:42:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA04868 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:42:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.90] (sdts10-42.znet.net [207.167.66.42]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id SAA14660 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 18:42:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 18:42:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990206095431.00c82650@pop.slip.net> Conversation with last message <4.1.19990206095431.00c82650@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: H-COST: FO Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams I finally finished, well sorta finished my husband's new Landknecht doublet and sleeves. We paid David Born, a friend who does awesome leatherwork (and has 6 different kinds of leather sewing machines) to make his pouch, shoes and breeches from my design. The outfit is all in black, buff and gold and my hubby will be wearing it out at the SCA Estrella war coming up next week. The breeches are black leather over a bright gold plain weave cotton. There are decorative puffs and edgings in buff deerhide. They are very elaborately slashed with the gold puffing coming through at the codpiece. The slashing is asymetrical, with large scooped cuts on one leg and rows of Z twists and straight cuts on the other leg. The shoes are black cowmouthed shoes with buff slashing at the toes and decorating the top edge. The pouch is a black and buff pouch with 3 small outer bags. The work that David does is excellent and he followed my desigh exactly! See his work at: http://www.atar.com/schofield/ or email him at logan@atar.com. He also does awesome reproduction 19th c gun leather and killer leather masks. (I have no steak in his business, these are just unsolicited complements on my part.) The sleeves are a black felted wool over gold linen base. One has rows of straight slashing with gold cord between each row. The other has diagonal long cut rows with scallops within each row. The long cuts are tied together with black cord with gold metal filagree tubes for aiglets. Both sleeves have assymetrical puffed cuffs. The sleeves tie in to a gold colored elk skin doublet. There are long rows with "s" cuts between each row. Behind the elk is black silk and behind that the doublet is lined with gold linen. He will wear some black and yellow hose I made from black and white striped t-shirt cotton overdyed yellow/gold and a black pizza hat. Anyone going? I'd love to get together with any other H-Costumers who will be there... email me privately... Julie Adams aka Juliana Hirsch, OL SCA savaskan@sd.znet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 21:56:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA27390 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:56:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA07575; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:55:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA06501 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:00:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA06494 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:00:20 -0700 (MST) From: PiranhaBB@aol.com Received: from PiranhaBB@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id IUERa00804 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:59:30 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:59:30 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: grow tucks Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: PiranhaBB@aol.com More perusing the portraits.... Do you think there are tucks in the hems of these skirts to allow for growth? Lisa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 21:59:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA27406 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:59:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA08083; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:58:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA06699 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:03:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA06692 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:03:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip210.denver23.co.pub-ip.psi.net [38.31.5.210]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22578 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 19:03:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36BE5523.9B133D11@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 20:08:20 -0700 From: Mary Denise Smith Organization: Costume & Dressmaker Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Announcing A New Book! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mary Denise Smith Subject: HNW - Order 1597 Sibmacher now!! Date: Feb 6 1999 From: Kathryn Newell <72123.411@compuserve.com> Dear List: I am delighted to announce that the 1597 Sibmacher will be published and available at CostumeCon, February 12-16th in Cherry Hill, NJ. The book's title is: NEEDLEWORK PATTERNS FROM RENAISSANCE GERMANY, designs charted by Kathryn Newall* from Johan Sibmacher's Schön Neues Modelbuch, 1597. * known in the Society For Creative Anachronism as Baroness Kathryn Goodwyn, OL There are 26 pages of charts (27 black and white patterns, 28 color patterns) plus 6 pages of introductory text and annotated bibliography for a total of 32 pages, saddle stitched, with a color cover. Cost: $10.00 plus $3.50 shipping & handling (Priority Mail). VALENTINE's SPECIAL! Pre order and shipping is free! Send checks, made payable to "Kathryn Newell", before February 14 to: Kathryn Newell 100 Mt.Arlington Blvd. Landing, NJ 07850 If you are going to CostumeCon you can pick up your copy there and I will autograph your copy. Otherwise I will autograph and mail them when I return. (If you are SCA please indicate which name you'd like me to inscribe it to.) After February 14, please include s& h and send your checks, made payable to "Costume and Dressmaker Magazine" to my publisher/distributor, Mary Denise Smith (publisher and editor of "Costume and Dressmaker" magazine): From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 22:18:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA27499 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:18:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA11262; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:17:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA08289 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:22:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.strayer.edu (mail1.strayer.edu [199.75.74.178]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA08279 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:22:29 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902080322.UAA08279@indra.com> X-WM-Posted-At: mail1.strayer.edu; Sun, 7 Feb 99 22:29:12 -0500 Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:29:12 -0500 From: THOMAS PETRO To: h-costume@indra.com X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002320 Subject: H-COST: World War Two British uniform patterns Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.20 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: THOMAS PETRO To whom it may concern, I am trying to find World War Two British Military uniform sewing patterns? Any ideas? Thanks, Tom Petro _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 23:07:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27666 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:07:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA16508; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:04:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA12231 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:09:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.198.2.20]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA12224 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:09:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from charlene (ts7-5-79.rhsc.cetlink.net [209.198.5.79]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA20984 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:12:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00e101be5317$dc233280$5604c6d1@charlene> From: "Charlene Noto" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: what kind of lace Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:56:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Charlene Noto" It looks to me like knotting...not lace, however, I can't really tell from the picture. -Charlene -----Original Message----- From: PiranhaBB@aol.com To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Sunday, February 07, 1999 9:21 PM Subject: H-COST: what kind of lace > >-Poster: PiranhaBB@aol.com > >Checking out a Virtual Museum, I ran across this portrait.... > >http://www.hol.gr/cgfa/g/p-gheeraerts2-1.htm > >What kind of lace is that on the table at her left hand? Is it lace at all? > >Best regards, >Lisa > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 23:16:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27704 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:16:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA17792; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:14:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA13700 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:19:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id VAA13693 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:19:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from mamabear from [207.136.51.211] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.388) with smtp for sender: id ; Sun, 7 Feb 99 22:19:43 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <009801be5319$82cccbe0$dcc1ced0@mamabear> From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: grow tucks Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:14:23 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" I have sort of studied this tuck recently when I made my Spanish gown. Some of the things I have found are: These tucks appear on grown women's gowns as well, one source (20,000 years of Fashion) claims they are for hiding the feet while sitting, and that the University of Texas calls the ubiquitous Spanish Fold because they are sewn shut hence they do not know why they were fashionable. So in other words to answer your question since they appear on grown women's gowns as well as children it is not likely that they are growth tucks. Carol Ross -----Original Message----- From: PiranhaBB@aol.com To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Sunday, February 07, 1999 9:04 PM Subject: H-COST: grow tucks > >-Poster: PiranhaBB@aol.com > >More perusing the portraits.... > >Do you think there are tucks in the hems of these skirts to allow for growth? > > > > >Lisa > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 23:34:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27774 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:34:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA20150; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:32:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA15418 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:38:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com (mail1.sirius.com [205.134.253.131]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA15404 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:38:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.134.245.57] (ppp-asok05--057.sirius.net [205.134.245.57]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA18450 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:37:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902080437.UAA18450@mail1.sirius.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: World War Two British uniform patterns Date: Sun, 7 Feb 99 20:37:56 -0800 x-sender: haggis@pop.sirius.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Pelikan To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Pelikan I don't know of any patterns available for Brit uniforms. The only thing I can suggest is trying to draft one yourself. Another option is to get a hold of a Greek battledress blouse and a pair of Belgian battledress trousers. They're usually pretty cheap at surplus stores or some WWII reenactor vendors. From these, you could take them apart and make a pattern to size up or down. One note on the Belgian/European trousers is that the belt flaps button at the bottom, while the original Brits buttoned at the top. Of course, the Economy pattern used after 1940 did away with the belt loops and ankle straps entirely. If you do manage to put together a pattern, I know of quite a few people who would be interested in copies, as we're trying to come up with uniforms for some larger sized guys. If you intend to repro wool battledress, you may run into a problem with getting the right wool, at least in a somewhat reasonable price. We're still looking for relatively cheap denim coverall material, ourselves. I'd suggest checking with Harlan Glenn at "King and Country" (forget the URL, but a Yahoo search under King and Country should turn it up), or Jerry Lee at What Price Glory. I'm interested in sharing info and ideas on British/Commonwealth uniforms with any other interested parties, too. Steve Pelikan 6th Batt., Green Howards; Commemorative Historical Society _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 23:40:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27796 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:40:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA21021; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:38:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA15945 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:44:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.niagara.com (mail.niagara.com [209.5.56.12]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA15932 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:44:07 -0700 (MST) From: kathleen@niagara.com Received: from kathleen.niagara.com (isdn-123.niagara.com [209.5.58.123]) by mail.niagara.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA18495 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:44:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:44:02 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902080444.XAA18495@mail.niagara.com> X-Sender: kathleen@mail.niagara.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan tall hat Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kathleen@niagara.com >Mine is about 5 or 6 inches tall and I'm happy with that (I don't need to >be any taller!) but it's more or less personal preference. I've seen some >portraits which have hats that appear to be over a foot tall. Also I've >tapered the crown slightly in such a way that if there is no decoration on >the hat, there is nothing which is obviously "front" or "back". > >Cheers, >Danielle Listen to this woman! I've seen Danielle's hat...it has the *perfect* look. () _/)(\_ "Tehee!" quod she, and clapte the wyndow to /~~\ /____\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 23:40:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27800 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:40:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA21001; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:38:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA15931 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:44:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.niagara.com (mail.niagara.com [209.5.56.12]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA15923 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:44:03 -0700 (MST) From: kathleen@niagara.com Received: from kathleen.niagara.com (isdn-123.niagara.com [209.5.58.123]) by mail.niagara.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA18482 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:43:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:43:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902080443.XAA18482@mail.niagara.com> X-Sender: kathleen@mail.niagara.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor Help Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kathleen@niagara.com >Now I need help finding patterns and instructions. I'd like to make it in a >fairly period correct method, undergarments and all, dating probably 1530s- >ish. I really don't know WHERE to start. Any hints? I find it difficult to answer posts like this, since I'm far from expert, but since there has been little response... If you're starting from scratch, it might be easiest to grab a pattern, then adapt what isn't right. The Elizabethan Costuming Page *is* good for the farthingale, but stick with the Juan de Alecega method. The easy method puts far too much fabric around your waist for the Tudor cone sillouette. AlterYears sells pre-made farthingales, but I haven't bought one. Or you can make your own pattern, which is what I've always done. It's just mathematical. If you use a pattern for your gown, then make at least the underskirt (kirtle) first so you know how wide to make your bottom hoop. After that it's just a matter of ratios. (And a bit of trial and error...making sure there is overlap in your hoops gives you some play) If you start with the Period Patterns Tudor, here's what I would change: The back skirt pieces need to be less tapered. Portraiture shows a few pleats at the back, and the Period Patterns skirt pieces don't allow that. I also found the underskirt a bit tight around my hips, even though I made the correct size. The majority of English portraits show trained skirts. I find trains inconvenient, so I don't adjust for that. (Besides, there's evidence of un-trained skirts) The bodice, of course, needs to be fitted in muslin first. You might want to change it to front lacing and sew your overskirt directly onto the bottom of the bodice, then make a stomacher. (I haven't done this yet, but it makes sense...my teacher suggested it) I think the shoulder pieces are too wide, and I found the armscye too high. (if you change it, don't forget to adjust the upper sleeve) The method of attaching the undersleeves (from Norris, btw) doesn't work at all in my opinion...particularly if you want your smock to blouse out the bottom, rather than use fakes. I'm still working out that problem, but in the interim I just pinned my undersleeves to my smock sleeves and that worked great. (I just may stick with that if I don't find better ideas in my research) Again, I found the undersleeve a bit too wide at the elbow...I adjusted the angle for my second one (too much...next time will be perfect) There's evidence for faked "puff" pieces pinned onto the *top* of the undersleeve, rather than slashes....it might be easier to do that. I've always found the finishing of slashes to be highly aggrevating. Remember that the turn back cuff is really just the oversleeve lining...try and use whatever fancy fabric or fur all the way back to the elbow. I forgot that, and I'll never be happy with the results. You can adjust the oversleeve, too, if you want. I found the Period Patterns oversleeve too long to expose the correct amount of undersleeve, but too geometrically angled to shorten without seriously narrowing the sleeve. I made up little mock-ups to play with different styles. Because i was using beadwork in a reticulated pattern, I chose an earlier squared-off style, but a bell-shaped would probebly drape prettier in the damask. Corestry is a question...woodcuttings show a fair amount of bosom curve...more than you could have if corsetted. I would make it a personal choice, because I don't think there is a definitive answer. My last one was worn without a corset, and I got a good shape and comfort level. (I used a little boning here and there) There is distressing little good information on the construction of French hoods...you're early enough to use the earlier form described in the Queta's Closet pattern. (Where there is no paste, just a wired shaped turn back showing the white lining) One of the links from the Elizabethan Costuming page shows the construction of a gable hood that looks really good. I hope this has been at all useful. Kathleen (Catriona) () _/)(\_ "Tehee!" quod she, and clapte the wyndow to /~~\ /____\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 7 23:58:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27863 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:58:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA23133; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:57:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA17364 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:02:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.strayer.edu (mail1.strayer.edu [199.75.74.178]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA17356 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:02:52 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902080502.WAA17356@indra.com> X-WM-Posted-At: mail1.strayer.edu; Mon, 8 Feb 99 00:09:36 -0500 Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 00:09:36 -0500 From: THOMAS PETRO To: Pelikan X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002320 Subject: RE: H-COST: World War Two British uniform patterns Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.20 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: THOMAS PETRO >===== Original Message From Pelikan ===== >-Poster: Pelikan > >I don't know of any patterns available for Brit uniforms. The only thing >I can suggest is trying to draft one yourself. Another option is to get >a hold of a Greek battledress blouse and a pair of Belgian battledress >trousers. They're usually pretty cheap at surplus stores or some WWII >reenactor vendors. From these, you could take them apart and make a >pattern to size up or down. One note on the Belgian/European trousers is >that the belt flaps button at the bottom, while the original Brits >buttoned at the top. > >Of course, the Economy pattern used after 1940 did away with the belt >loops and ankle straps entirely. > >If you do manage to put together a pattern, I know of quite a few people >who would be interested in copies, as we're trying to come up with >uniforms for some larger sized guys. > >If you intend to repro wool battledress, you may run into a problem with >getting the right wool, at least in a somewhat reasonable price. We're >still looking for relatively cheap denim coverall material, ourselves. > >I'd suggest checking with Harlan Glenn at "King and Country" (forget the >URL, but a Yahoo search under King and Country should turn it up), or >Jerry Lee at What Price Glory. > >I'm interested in sharing info and ideas on British/Commonwealth uniforms >with any other interested parties, too. > >Steve Pelikan >6th Batt., Green Howards; Commemorative Historical Society > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Thanks for the info. I kind of figured I would have to go the route of buying a Greek BD uniform and taking it apart. Thanks again, Tom Petro _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 00:09:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA28522 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 00:09:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA24049; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:08:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA18176 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:13:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from crius.flash.net (echo.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA18166 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:13:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p174.amax14.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.67.174]) by crius.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA06796 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:13:35 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36BE7162.7FFBEB45@flash.net> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 23:08:50 -0600 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: grow tucks References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Charlene Charette PiranhaBB@aol.com wrote: > More perusing the portraits.... > > Do you think there are tucks in the hems of these skirts to allow for growth? > > There was a discuss not too long ago on these Spanish hems. I don't recall if a conclusion was ever reached, but they're not likely to be growth tucks because they're found on adults as well. --Charlene -- The discontent of the people is more dangerous to a monarch than all the might of his enemies on the battlefield. -- Isabella d'Este _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 00:10:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA28529 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 00:10:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA24139; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:08:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA18240 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA18229 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:13:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (pool042-max12.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.232.92]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA01729 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:13:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36BE73E3.5AC33C17@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 21:19:32 -0800 From: Scott Hulett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: World War Two British uniform patterns References: <199902080502.WAA17356@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Scott Hulett Thomas, Okay, this will sound circuitous, but, here goes. My husband got a couple of magazines in a game store (d&d not regular). It was called "Napolean" or "Napoleanic" like that. I remember seeing an add for an english company that sold military uniforms and such. Now, it seems to me that you could just order them or you could order patterns. I could try and find out, if you like or if you have enough to go on your could look. This was a nice publication, very glossy and really well researched articles. Most of the adds covered a wide range of history as I remember, not just Napoleanics. Well, hope this helps. e-mail if you want more. Cheers, jd. THOMAS PETRO wrote: > -Poster: THOMAS PETRO > > >===== Original Message From Pelikan ===== > >-Poster: Pelikan > > > >I don't know of any patterns available for Brit uniforms. The only thing > >I can suggest is trying to draft one yourself. Another option is to get > >a hold of a Greek battledress blouse and a pair of Belgian battledress > >trousers. They're usually pretty cheap at surplus stores or some WWII > >reenactor vendors. From these, you could take them apart and make a > >pattern to size up or down. One note on the Belgian/European trousers is > >that the belt flaps button at the bottom, while the original Brits > >buttoned at the top. > > > >Of course, the Economy pattern used after 1940 did away with the belt > >loops and ankle straps entirely. > > > >If you do manage to put together a pattern, I know of quite a few people > >who would be interested in copies, as we're trying to come up with > >uniforms for some larger sized guys. > > > >If you intend to repro wool battledress, you may run into a problem with > >getting the right wool, at least in a somewhat reasonable price. We're > >still looking for relatively cheap denim coverall material, ourselves. > > > >I'd suggest checking with Harlan Glenn at "King and Country" (forget the > >URL, but a Yahoo search under King and Country should turn it up), or > >Jerry Lee at What Price Glory. > > > >I'm interested in sharing info and ideas on British/Commonwealth uniforms > >with any other interested parties, too. > > > >Steve Pelikan > >6th Batt., Green Howards; Commemorative Historical Society > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > Thanks for the info. I kind of figured I would have to go the route of buying > a Greek BD uniform and taking it apart. > > Thanks again, > Tom Petro > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 00:35:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA28617 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 00:35:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA26611; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:33:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA20335 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:39:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id WAA20330 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:39:10 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 22:39:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 22756 invoked from network); 8 Feb 1999 05:34:28 -0000 Received: from 150.240.3-3.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.150) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 1999 05:34:28 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990207213908.302f2224@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: what kind of lace Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 09:15 PM 02/07/1999 EST, PiranhaBB@aol.com wrote: > >-Poster: PiranhaBB@aol.com > >Checking out a Virtual Museum, I ran across this portrait.... > >http://www.hol.gr/cgfa/g/p-gheeraerts2-1.htm > >What kind of lace is that on the table at her left hand? Is it lace at all? > >Best regards, >Lisa Given the limitations of my monitor, I would guess that she is holding some sort of jewel, possibly on a chain. It doesn't look like lace of any sort to me. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 01:11:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA28964 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 01:11:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA29331; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:09:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA22487 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:14:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from dgs.dgsys.com (robin@dgs.dgsys.com [204.97.64.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA22473 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:14:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by dgs.dgsys.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA17224 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 01:14:22 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: dgs.dgsys.com: robin owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 01:14:22 -0500 (EST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Subject: H-COST: Need a citation (again) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton (Forgive me if this is a repeat, but I don't think it went through the first couple of times I tried -- my subject line may have been triggering a bounce.) I'm finishing up the final copy of a book chapter -- on deadline of course -- and I just realized I'm missing page numbers on three citations. Alas, the nearest copies of the books (that I know of) are an hour and a half's drive away, at the university library where I researched the paper. So, if anyone on this list happens to have either of these books in your possession, and you are willing to look up a quote and give me a page number, I would be ETERNALLY grateful if you would email me privately. The books are: Dion Calthrop, English Costume, 1066-1820, London: A & C Black, 1906. (I may be able to use the 1946 reprint as well, but I don't know if the 1960's version is close enough to the original to have the quote I need.) Herbert Norris, Costume and Fashion, Vol 2: Senlac to Bosworth, 1066-1485, London: J.M. Dent and Sons, Ltd., 1938. This is the medieval volume, not the Tudor one. Many thanks in advance. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Robin Netherton :::::::: Editor at Large :::::::: robin@dgsys.com :::::::::::::::: Life is just a bowl of queries. :::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 01:20:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA29007 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 01:20:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA00100; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:17:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA22930 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:22:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU (SYSTEM@cc.newcastle.edu.au [134.148.4.24]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA22918 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 23:22:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from noname.newcastle.edu.au (c25mc4-asy13.newcastle.edu.au) by cc.newcastle.edu.au (PMDF V5.1-12 #U2933) with SMTP id <01J7IBYJGE1Q90P5O9@cc.newcastle.edu.au> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 17:21:38 +1100 Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 17:28:14 +1100 From: Tricia Ostwald Subject: Re: H-COST: Late 15th c clothing In-reply-to: X-Sender: phpmo@cc.newcastle.edu.au To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.1.32.19990208172814.00799530@cc.newcastle.edu.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Tricia Ostwald At 16:50 5/02/99 +1030, you wrote: > I've been looking at late 15th century (post 1485)/early 16th century >clothing in England and France, with the aim of making myself one >of those square necked, wide-sleeved gowns. I have a couple of questions... > Those dresses are rarely shown from the back, and when they are, they >seem to mostly have low, v-necked backs, often laced. I've only found >one piccy in a tapestry of what might be one with a high round neck. I made myself several of those last year - based on the French Tapestries from about 1500 called Lives of the Nobles or something like that. My book is at home and its in French. Basically, (it looks to me) - if the undergown is laced/hooked up the front, then the overgown has the V back and is laced (with a single lace) across. When the overgown is hooked at the front (no visible fastenings) then the undergown does up the back - and I made both high at the back - I'll have to go back to the tapestry book to rethink through my reasoning for that - other than it seemed sensible. The back laced version stays up pretty well. >The hoods worn with these dresses seem to have many variations, but leaving >aside gable hoods, there are quite a few that look like the women are >wearing something that might evolve into the French hood underneath. >Boucher says this is a 'headband' and other writers say it is an undercap, >but it looks nothing like a coif. Any ideas how it might be made? The 1500s french style hoods - haven't yet evolved into the "French Hoods". I've made 2 successful versions using a lined hood pinned to a coif. The bit that looks like the cresent of the french hood is the lining of the older style hood, that has been turned back. Have a look at the portrait of Queen Claude (I think?) for a better view. I've made both these and the Anne Boleyn style (and later) french hoods - also worn over a coif, and I think the transition is pretty straight forward. Not sure what Boucher means by headband tho? The cresent portion? Can't remember any of the proper terminology at present - time to go home :-) Contact me directly if you want more information. Trish Dr P. M. Ostwald Senior Medical Physicist Department of Medical Physics Newcastle Mater Hospital, Australia ph: Int+ 61 2 49211172 FAX: Int+ 61 2 49211129 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 02:35:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA29286 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 02:35:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA05148; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 00:32:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA26719 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 00:38:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from arl-img-5.compuserve.com (arl-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.217.135]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA26714 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 00:38:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id CAA10927 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 02:37:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 02:37:23 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: World War Two British uniform patterns To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199902080237_MC2-699C-CA1E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id CAA29286 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson I'm pretty sure there is a source of patterns here, I saw it somewhere, I'll try & find out, also the cloth is still avaliable in the UK if you want to ship so over. What uniform specifically did you want to do ? Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 02:49:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA29382 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 02:49:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA05949; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 00:47:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA27395 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 00:52:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.gmx.net (qmailr@mail2.gmx.net [195.63.104.62]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id AAA27388 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 00:52:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 8109 invoked by uid 0); 8 Feb 1999 07:52:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jacomo) (203.216.65.95) by mail2.gmx.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 1999 07:52:35 -0000 Message-Id: X-Sender: marquise_de_pompadour@gmx.net@pop.gmx.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 15:38:46 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pompadour Subject: Re: H-COST: grow tucks In-Reply-To: <009801be5319$82cccbe0$dcc1ced0@mamabear> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Pompadour At 04:14 08.02.99 , you wrote: > >-Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" >feet while sitting, and that the University of Texas calls the ubiquitous >Spanish Fold because they are sewn shut hence they do not know why they were >fashionable. So in other words to answer your question since they appear on if even the people at the university can't figure it out, i won't presume to know better... just a notion: my grandma sometimes made such tucks around the skirt to make the hem fall a little more smoothly without having to make the hem too stiff. as the skirts here had to fall extremely smoothly, without a single vertical fold, maybe the tucks were made to support this? ciao, yo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 05:44:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA02891 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 05:44:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA14209; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 03:43:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA19172 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 03:48:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA18811 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 03:48:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) id <01J7HXETVNJK00CVCN@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:50:08 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) with ESMTP id <01J7HXDE1FEE00DLMI@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 08 Feb 1999 10:23:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.43); Mon, 08 Feb 1999 10:21:29 +0000 (GMT0BST) Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.43); Mon, 08 Feb 1999 10:21:07 +0000 (GMT0BST) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 10:20:59 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: H-COST: CostumeCon - UK Version... In-reply-to: <199902042039.NAA14812@indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <6F4C5B237F@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Teddy > From: Pompadour > >Yes there are Costume Conventions in the UK > > can you give us any hint as to where (if) the locations and dates > are published, preferably on the web? couldn't people from all over > europe take part? Anyone who wants to attend can buy a membership and attend. We've had a few from the US attend Masque in the past, non from Mainland Europe that I'm aware of, but there's nothing stropping them from joining. This year's one will be in September. It's being held at the Dudley campus of one of the Birmingham Universities (either Birmingham or Wolverhamption, I can't emember which) I joined this weekend but haven't got the details with me today. I'll try and remember to bring them to work with me tomorow and post them. Each year it is run by a different group (there isn't an overall organization/club/group that runs them, it's reliant on different people deciding to form a committee and put in a bid to run the following year's one). This years group does not have web access (I think one of the members has access to email on her boyfriend's account but i've never received a reply from her as she never checks it and he never remembers to tell her there are messages for her.... The place you are most likely to find details of any of the Masques would be the web pages of the Costume Guild UK. CGUK doesn't run Masque, but we hold our AGM there and there's usually a high proportion of GCUK members at Masque each year. I can't give you the URL right now as I have it bookmarked, but can't access my web-searching and bookmars without lgging out of email, rebooting the computer and firing up a whole different system that will actually run windows.... Do a search for the "CGUK homepage" (that's how i usually find it if i'm not using the computer/account with the bookmarks on it) Hope this helps Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 07:48:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA03363 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 07:48:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA19770; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 05:46:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA09724 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 05:52:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from otis.netspace.net.au (oldotis.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.190]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA09697; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 05:51:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by otis.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id XAA03948; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 23:51:56 +1100 (EST) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t2-212.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.192.212]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id XAA23423; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 23:53:39 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199902081253.XAA23423@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: , , Subject: H-COST: Note of thanks Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 23:56:08 +1100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" On behalf of David Scanlon who asked I put in a question about things to do and see while he is in the Costume-Con 17 area, thanks to all those who kindly responded, David is thrilled at the response. If there are any further suggestions, feel free to contact him at Lord__Necro@bigpond.com (note, it is a double underscore). -C. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 07:59:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA03404 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 07:59:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA20444; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 05:57:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA10282 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 06:03:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f108.hotmail.com [207.82.250.227]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id GAA10273 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 06:03:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 27188 invoked by uid 0); 8 Feb 1999 13:02:39 -0000 Message-ID: <19990208130239.27187.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 194.168.181.35 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Feb 1999 05:02:39 PST X-Originating-IP: [194.168.181.35] From: "Cornelia W" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Posture -1950s Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 05:02:39 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Cornelia W" Dora's comment about 1950's deportment reminded me of the early 1960 when I was a teenager. My younger brother told me that when I was wearing my ball gown I was 2 inches taller. This was because I was well trussed up in a firm control girdle and long line bra. I probably was taller because those garments made you stand straight. Cornelia ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 08:04:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA03428 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 08:04:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA20980; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 06:02:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA10509 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 06:08:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA10500 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 06:08:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from 168.191.20.23 (sdn-ar-001dcwashP015.dialsprint.net [168.191.20.23]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA08357 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 05:08:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36BE9F70.68B57CCF@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 08:25:32 +0000 From: margo king X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Posture - backboards X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199902071203050@suew.excite.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: margo king Sue W - Do you have a reference for these types of backboards, esp. in 19th century? Thanks, Margo King _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 08:40:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA03560 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 08:40:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA24158; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 06:39:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA13003 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 06:44:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA12996 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 06:44:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.218 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 05:44:17 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Pattern needed and random thoughts on underwear Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 08:47:51 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be5369$cee777a0$f21fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <199902040541.VAA00726@smtp.pacifier.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I just saw paintings of the Prague bathhouse workers, and their chemise straps were about an inch wide or thin like spaghetti straps. The straps are variously shown as a decorative tape or white self-material, presumably linen. The dress is so simple and pretty. You can see a few different versions of it in Kybalova's Pictorial Encyclopaedia of Fashion on pages 451, 452, and 453, which show paintings from the original sources, the Jena Codex in the Narodni Museum in Prague, and the Bible of Wendel IV, c. 1400 in the National Library in Vienna, Austria. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of kat@grendal.rain.com Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 4:42 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Pattern needed and random thoughts on underwear -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > I'm not really looking for a pattern, but I'd like to hear > some thoughts on late 14C shifts/smocks to wear under cotehardies. Kohler has a photo of an extant one. It looks like sort of a spaghetti straped slip. The shoulder straps are part of the garment from the looks of it, not added later. I made one and it worked great. No binding under the arms. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 09:21:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA03756 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:21:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA27624; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 07:19:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA16605 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 07:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from dskfw1.funb.com (dskfw1.funb.com [168.175.254.61]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA16586 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 07:24:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by dskfw1.funb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA12827 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:24:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from clt-conn-02.funb.com(168.175.76.48) by dskfw1.funb.com via smap (V2.0) id xma012822; Mon, 8 Feb 99 09:24:14 -0500 Received: by clt-conn-02.capmark.funb.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <1LMKN9BX>; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:24:03 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Stapelton, Gregory" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Glass Aglets Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:23:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Stapelton, Gregory" Greetings, Danielle, :) > -----Original Message----- Yep. We're making them ourselves. Turns out, it's even easier than making a bead. It's just like making a small glass icicle. > Does this mean that your friend has a source for them?! Where can I get > some? > Gawain _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 09:55:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA03884 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:55:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA00756; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 07:53:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA20196 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 07:59:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.strayer.edu (mail1.strayer.edu [199.75.74.178]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA20190 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 07:59:07 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902081459.HAA20190@indra.com> X-WM-Posted-At: mail1.strayer.edu; Mon, 8 Feb 99 10:06:00 -0500 Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:06:00 -0500 From: THOMAS PETRO To: h-costume@indra.com X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002320 Subject: H-COST: World War 2 patterns Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.20 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: THOMAS PETRO Melanie, I am trying to make the 1937 or 1940 Battle Dress uniform and the Denison Smock that was used by the Paratrooper units during the War. Thanks, Tom _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 10:33:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04016 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:33:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA05391; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 08:31:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA25618 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 08:36:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from bsumail.idbsu.edu (bsumail.idbsu.edu [132.178.16.40]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA25605 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 08:36:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from cobfac.idbsu.edu (cobfac.idbsu.edu [132.178.51.3]) by bsumail.idbsu.edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id IAA18802 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 08:39:05 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902081539.IAA18802@bsumail.idbsu.edu> Received: from COBFAC/SpoolDir by cobfac.idbsu.edu (Mercury 1.40); 8 Feb 99 08:36:38 GMT+7 Received: from SpoolDir by COBFAC (Mercury 1.40); 8 Feb 99 08:14:44 GMT+7 From: "Linda Yordy" Organization: College of Business To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 08:14:43 MST Subject: Re: H-COST: what kind of lace Priority: normal In-reply-to: <2.2.16.19990207213908.302f2224@mail2.quiknet.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Linda Yordy" > >Checking out a Virtual Museum, I ran across this portrait.... > >http://www.hol.gr/cgfa/g/p-gheeraerts2-1.htm > >What kind of lace is that on the table at her left hand? Is it lace at all? > Given the limitations of my monitor, I would guess that she is holding some > sort of jewel, possibly on a chain. It doesn't look like lace of any sort to me. I agree. From my monitor, it looks like metal is involved. Perhaps a necklace or choker of some sort. Linda Yordy Phone: 208/426-4034 Boise State University Center for Management Development 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1660 ******************************************************** Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 11:29:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04230 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:29:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA14821; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:26:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA06659 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:32:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA06644 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:32:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust173.tnt30.sfo3.da.uu.net [208.255.83.173]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28236 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 08:32:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36BF1232.F5D9285F@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 08:34:58 -0800 From: Christina Conklin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: An Antique textile fair in Manchester Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christina Conklin The details are as follows: Antique Textile Fair Armitage Centre Moseley Rd Fallowfield Manchester Open to the public 10-5, Sunday, March 21st. Write or phone (0181) 523-2399 for info, as there is no web site listed in the ad (taken from a British trade mag). Admission 5 pounds. As it happens, I'm going to be in London at that time, and may make the effort to get up north for this. Has anyone been? Is it worth the effort? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 11:45:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA10062 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:44:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA17984; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:42:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA09753 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:48:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.isg.siue.edu (mail.isg.siue.edu [146.163.5.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA09721 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:47:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from frick.siue.edu (client652.pb.siue.edu [146.163.163.82]) by mail.isg.siue.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA11189 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:46:56 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990208105329.007cdd60@siue.edu> X-Sender: cfrick@siue.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 10:53:29 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carole Frick Subject: H-COST: Bronzino "shirt" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carole Frick Dear All, I am new to the listserv, and am fascinated by the details of costume-making you discuss. Having never posted before, I thought I'd contribute an historical clothing note on the Bronzino "shirt". This is a very fancy (16th-c.) version of the Italian "camicia," which was the washable undergarment worn by men, women and children alike underneath their more constructed overgarments. In the backgrounds of 15th-c. paintings, you can often see wet undershirts hanging out to dry on wooden rods attached to the sides of Florentine palazze below the windows. (Masaccio, in his Brancacci Chapel frescoes) A "camicia," made by a female undergarment specialist known as a "camiciaia," (oddly enough), was of linen, cotton, or occasionally a thin silk. The rich used fine linen "rensa" from Rheims. It was rather long, reaching to just about knee length, had amply-cut sleeves (which often were poufed out of sleeve slashings), and formed the major part of a person's personal linens, which the Italians called "biancheria". The Renaissance Italians also had special "camicie" for winter, called "camicie da verno," which presumably were made of a heavier fabric. Cheers! Carole Frick Dept. of Historical Studies Southern Illinois University Edwardsville _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 12:03:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10164 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:03:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA21064; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:01:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA13512 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:07:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from prontomail10.prontomail.com (prontomail10.prontomail.com [209.185.149.110]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA13493 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:07:02 -0700 (MST) X-Internal-ID: 36BCE37A00004383 Received: from suew (209.185.149.203) by prontomail10.prontomail.com (NPlex 2.0.119) for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 08:59:55 +0000 From: "Sue W" Message-Id: <199902080904071@suew.excite.co.uk> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 17:05:48 +0000 X-Priority: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Backboards - references - long, for Margo X-Mailer: Web Based Pronto Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Sue W" Margo King wrote: >> Sue W - Do you have a reference for these types of backboards, esp. in 19th century? Thanks, Margo King>> Margo I wish I could give you lots of nice and precise references for backboards, I wish I wrote down more notes when I come across things. Here in the UK there are examples of two handled backboards in the museums at Birmingham (Pinto collection) and the Cambridge Folk Museum. The examples they have are helpfully labelled "19 Century", and that is all. You can see some pictures in Pinto's work "treen". I seem to remember he says "mid 19 C" which is hardly more helpful.(If it was made of wood he collected it !) There is an example of the triangular variation in Peterborough museum, but it's ages since I have been there. I seem to remember they have an indication that it was a regular domestic item, rather than a surgical device prescribed by a doctor. Try Thackery's "Vanity Fair" - there is a reference to a backboard as a normal girl's school device. Also the US Dance Manual library on the web ( See Fran Grimble's post a week or so ago for the address) has a 1800 ish reference to backboards, indicating that they were generally beneficial and their use widespread - rather like vitamin pills today I suppose !. The same book warns of the dangers of using stocks to force children feet outwards. There is an old costume book by Fairholt (mid 19century?). In it there is a drawing of a mid 18C lady wearing a bouquet of flowers stuck down her busk. A footnote says that girls' deportment has suffered since they stopped replacing the flowers with a long darning needle to stop the (stupid, lazy and stooping) girl from poking her head forwards. (My terrible sense of humour makes me think of a kebabs and a barbeque) It is easy to be critical of 18/19 C parents and teachers using these painful devices on children. However it was right then, as now to the best for your children, so that they would succeed as adults. In the 19C they got to work on the insides of children too - purging and a focus on timely bowel movements. This could be painful for the poor child too. What do we do to our children today that will be likewise regarded in 200 years time ? Off topic a bit - we have to realise that it is only in the last 50 years or so that pain has become socially unacceptable. 18/19C schoolteachers used the cane as a teaching aid, which must have concentrated the mind. I guess you learnt your 9 times table pretty quickly if you got a swish everytime you made a mistake. Let me know if this is not enought. I am sure there is more in my notes and at the back of my head, but that's all I can find at the moment. Sue This E-mail brought to you by Excite's free E-mail service. Get your own E-mail address at http://www.excite.co.uk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 12:57:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16152 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:57:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA29941; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:55:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA23979 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:00:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from dns1.mcn.org (root@dns1.mcn.org [204.189.12.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA23959 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:00:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from 204.189.12.209 (pm25-1-men-a05.mcn.org [204.189.12.209]) by dns1.mcn.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA09589 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 10:00:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36BF2741.EE5@mcn.org> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 10:04:51 -0800 From: Fred Struthers X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: European ethnic costumes References: <4.1.19990205085214.00c5b9c0@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Fred Struthers I have a number of books like this. You should be on my mailing list - but your name is famdiliar, and you may aready have received a catalog from me. At any rate, if you are interested send along you address, and I'll send the next catalog of BOOKS ON CLOTH (late March). Fred Struthers -- Fred Struthers http://www.mcn.org/e/fsbks _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 15:22:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16802 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:22:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA26665; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:18:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA24519 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:23:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA24372; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:23:24 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:23:24 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902082023.NAA24372@indra.com> From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Subject: H-COST: I need a citation Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton I'm finishing up the final copy of a book chapter -- on deadline of course -- and I just realized I'm missing page numbers on three citations. Alas, the nearest copies of the books (that I know of) are an hour and a half's drive away, at the university library where I researched the paper. I can't find copies in any of the local university libraries. So, if anyone on this list happens to have either of these books in your possession, and you are willing to look up a quote and give me a page number, I would be ETERNALLY grateful if you would email me privately. The books are: Dion Calthrop, English Costume, 1066-1820, London: A & C Black, 1906. (I may be able to use the 1946 reprint as well, but I don't know if the 1960's version is close enough to the original to have the quote I need.) Herbert Norris, Costume and Fashion, Vol 2: Senlac to Bosworth, 1066-1485, London: J.M. Dent and Sons, Ltd., 1938. This is the medieval volume, not the Tudor one. Many thanks in advance. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Robin Netherton :::::::: Editor at Large :::::::: robin@dgsys.com :::::::::::::::: Life is just a bowl of queries. :::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 15:23:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16812 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:23:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA27176; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:21:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA25180 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:26:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA25169; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:26:37 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:26:37 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902082026.NAA25169@indra.com> From: Finafyr@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Juan de Alcega's"Tailors Pattern book" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Finafyr@aol.com Does anyone know where I can get a copy or photo Copy of Juan de Alcega's Tailors pattern book...I have looked every where. I have seen some of the patterns for the book and have seen those patterns worked up....I really really would like a copy Yis Fionnbharr (finafyr@aol.com) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 15:25:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16828 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:25:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA27585; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:23:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA25554 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:28:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA25465; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:28:22 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:28:22 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902082028.NAA25465@indra.com> From: Hope Greenberg To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Fabric Question Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hope Greenberg > -Poster: "Vickers, Jill" > That being said, the book I was reading (Stella Blum's "Fashions and > Costumes > from Godey's Lady's Book" ) had no references to cotton clothing that I can > recall. ... > Also, my understanding is that Godey's toned down their European fashions > for American consumption (please correct me if I'm mistaken). Gowns made of cotton appear throughout Godey's but usually not by that name. That is, the word cotton seems to be used more often for crocheting cotton or yarn. Instead you'll see terms like cambric, muslin, etc. Of course, quite often, especially in the coller months and especially if the dress-of-the-month is for a more formal occasion, the fabric will be silk or wool. But chemisettes are usually muslin. Godey was always willing to show the latest Paris fashions, but Sarah Hale, the editor, was just as eager to choose those that were a bit toned down. Extremes in fashions did not go along with their usual policy of advising "ladies." (By the way, I think I have mentioned this but, without meaning to toot horns, you're welcome to visit the latest experimental Godey's, now with rudimentary searching, at this soon-to-be-changed address: http://132.198.103.233:6336/dynaweb) - Hope ------------ hope.greenberg@uvm.edu, U of Vermont, http://www.uvm.edu/~hag _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 16:43:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA17314 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:43:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA12139; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA12074 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:44:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA12057; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:44:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (pool041-max4.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.230.191]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19193; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:44:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36BF5C1B.2314F366@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 13:50:20 -0800 From: Scott Hulett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com CC: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: what kind of lace References: <9719221b.36be48c1@aol.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------DF0492C1783ACEE9A6858D41" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Scott Hulett --------------DF0492C1783ACEE9A6858D41 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay, was at kinkos at 1:00 am last night doing work for another bbs and came across this: "A knot made from narrow gold braid, possibly 'a true-love knot of passmane lace of venice gold'. on a piece of dark green printed, or stamped velvet, c.1600. Museo de Valencia de Don Juan, Madrid." Elizabeths' Wardrobe unlocked, by Janet Arnold. Page 278, diag. 366. What about that? Could this piece be a picture allegory for love? Aren't Elizabethan portraits crammed with this stuff? cheers, jd PiranhaBB@aol.com wrote: > -Poster: PiranhaBB@aol.com > > Checking out a Virtual Museum, I ran across this portrait.... > > http://www.hol.gr/cgfa/g/p-gheeraerts2-1.htm > > What kind of lace is that on the table at her left hand? Is it lace at all? > > Best regards, > Lisa > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME --------------DF0492C1783ACEE9A6858D41 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay,
    was at kinkos at 1:00 am last night doing work for another bbs and came across this:
    "A knot made from narrow gold braid, possibly 'a true-love knot of passmane lace of venice gold'. on a piece of dark green printed, or stamped
velvet, c.1600. Museo de Valencia de Don Juan, Madrid."
Elizabeths' Wardrobe unlocked, by Janet Arnold. Page 278, diag. 366.
What about that? Could this piece be a picture allegory for love? Aren't Elizabethan portraits crammed with this stuff?
cheers, jd

PiranhaBB@aol.com wrote:

--------------DF0492C1783ACEE9A6858D41-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 17:00:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17408 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 17:00:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA15387; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:58:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA10881 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:38:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA10844 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:38:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from home (pool041-max4.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.230.191]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA23098 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:38:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:43:40 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE5369.094F0E40.mhull@earthlink.net> From: Hulett To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: what kind of lace Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:42:43 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 47 TEXT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hulett Okay, was at kinko's at 1:00 am doing work for another bbs and found this reference in JA Eliza Wardrobe Unlocked, page 278, diag. 355 "A knot made from narrow gold braid, possibly 'a true-love knot of passmane lace of venice gold', on a pieced of dard green printed, or stamped velvet, c. 1600. Museo de VAlencia de Don Juan, Madrid." Could this be a 'true-love' knot? I looks like some of the charms I saw in my travels in England, so maybe? Elizabethan portraits are crammed with allegorical items, what do you think? Cheers, jd -----Original Message----- From: Linda Yordy [SMTP:abuyordy@cobfac.idbsu.edu] Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 7:15 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: what kind of lace -Poster: "Linda Yordy" > >Checking out a Virtual Museum, I ran across this portrait.... > >http://www.hol.gr/cgfa/g/p-gheeraerts2-1.htm > >What kind of lace is that on the table at her left hand? Is it lace at all? > Given the limitations of my monitor, I would guess that she is holding some > sort of jewel, possibly on a chain. It doesn't look like lace of any sort to me. I agree. From my monitor, it looks like metal is involved. Perhaps a necklace or choker of some sort. Linda Yordy Phone: 208/426-4034 Boise State University Center for Management Development 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1660 ******************************************************** Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 17:21:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17564 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 17:21:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA14238; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:08:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA08384 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:00:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA08314; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:00:18 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:00:18 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902081900.MAA08314@indra.com> From: Scott Hulett To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor Help Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Scott Hulett I must concur with everything you said, and I add that there is a terrific set of patterns in Period Costume for Stage and Screen, by Jean Hunnisett. Pages 38-47 show excellent underpinnings(corset and spanish farthingale)and 49-57 show a really good early Tudor dress though sadly, no hat pattern. (great drawing though) Highly recommend, good luck. Cheers, jd. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 17:53:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17678 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 17:53:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA28468; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:27:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA26673 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:32:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA26616 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:32:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip243.denver25.co.pub-ip.psi.net [38.31.7.243]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA12969 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:32:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36BF4B05.F715050A@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 13:37:26 -0700 From: Mary Denise Smith Organization: Costume & Dressmaker Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: An Antique textile fair in Manchester References: <36BF1232.F5D9285F@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mary Denise Smith I was there two years ago, when Margaret Bolger (sometimes of this list) ran it. Very good. Worth the effort to get there. Good book stalls, interesting textiles, fine people. Don't go expecting bargains. This is not a flea market. Mary Denise Smith _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 17:55:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17688 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 17:55:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA26899; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:19:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA24804 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:24:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA24758; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:24:34 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:24:34 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902082024.NAA24758@indra.com> From: Cheryl Smith To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: patterns and pattern making Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cheryl Smith From: Kara Amelia Rodgers Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:24:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-COST: patterns and pattern making - -Poster: Kara Amelia Rodgers Hello, I'm fairly new to costume making, though I've sewn for years. Everyone seems to be talking about making garments from pictures. How do you go about making patterns from pictures? Can anyone recommend a good book to help me learn the skill? Also, where is a good place to look for ready made historical patterns? Specifically, a friend has asked me to make a Medieval cloak for him. +_+_+_+_+_+_+ Hi Kara, There is a bunch of lists you can join at www.quiltropolis.com. One is on Pattern Making. We have some great disussions. Also, take a look at the archives, because I know we've talked about alot of books, one by Helen Armstrong, 'patternmaking for fashion design', but it's suppose to be hard to find. Hope to see you there. Cheryl Smith Pixie Wear _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 18:06:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA17734 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:06:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA05418; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:08:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA05705 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:13:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA05696 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:13:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from home (pool041-max4.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.230.191]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA22927 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:13:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:19:33 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE5365.AAC21140.mhull@earthlink.net> From: Hulett To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: what kind of lace Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:19:23 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 47 TEXT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hulett Okay, was at kinko's at 1:00 am doing work for another bbs and found this reference in JA Eliza Wardrobe Unlocked, page 278, diag. 355 "A knot made from narrow gold braid, possibly 'a true-love knot of passmane lace of venice gold', on a pieced of dard green printed, or stamped velvet, c. 1600. Museo de VAlencia de Don Juan, Madrid." Could this be a 'true-love' knot? I looks like some of the charms I saw in my travels in England, so maybe? Elizabethan portraits are crammed with allegorical items, what do you think? Cheers, jd -----Original Message----- From: Linda Yordy [SMTP:abuyordy@cobfac.idbsu.edu] Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 7:15 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: what kind of lace -Poster: "Linda Yordy" > >Checking out a Virtual Museum, I ran across this portrait.... > >http://www.hol.gr/cgfa/g/p-gheeraerts2-1.htm > >What kind of lace is that on the table at her left hand? Is it lace at all? > Given the limitations of my monitor, I would guess that she is holding some > sort of jewel, possibly on a chain. It doesn't look like lace of any sort to me. I agree. From my monitor, it looks like metal is involved. Perhaps a necklace or choker of some sort. Linda Yordy Phone: 208/426-4034 Boise State University Center for Management Development 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1660 ******************************************************** Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 18:31:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA17850 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:31:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA01484; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:29:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA03725 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:35:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA03705 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:35:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id KAA04649 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:05:06 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA06969; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:05:03 +1030 Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:05:03 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor Help In-Reply-To: <199902081900.MAA08314@indra.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Scott Hulett wrote: > > -Poster: Scott Hulett > > > > I must concur with everything you said, and I add that there is a > terrific set of patterns in Period Costume for Stage and Screen, by > Jean Hunnisett. Pages 38-47 show excellent underpinnings(corset and > spanish farthingale)and 49-57 show a really good early Tudor dress > though sadly, no hat pattern. (great drawing though) Highly recommend, > good luck. Cheers, jd. > For a bit earlier (ie before the Spanish Farthingale was in use in England) I found an interesting note in Cunnington....it was a quotation from a period account dating about 1525, for dress materials to make a gown. It included a roll of buckram and stuffing cloth for pleats..... I assume the buckram was for the bodice, and the stuffing for the pleats at the bakc of the skirt.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 18:41:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA17888 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:41:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA03088; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:39:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA05776 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:44:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from bratshb.uwc.edu (root@bratshb.uwc.edu [143.235.46.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA05768 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:44:55 -0700 (MST) From: pnomail@bratshb.uwc.edu Received: from Excelsior.bratshb.uwc.edu (ppp19shb.uwc.edu [143.235.46.19]) by bratshb.uwc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA00509 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 17:44:51 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990208173116.007adb10@bratshb.uwc.edu> X-Sender: pnomail@bratshb.uwc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 17:31:16 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Juan de Alcega's"Tailors Pattern book" In-Reply-To: <199902082026.NAA25169@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pnomail@bratshb.uwc.edu Interlibrary loan is always an option if you simply want to see the book, not posess it. DJ At 01:26 PM 2/8/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Finafyr@aol.com > > >Does anyone know where I can get a copy or photo Copy of Juan de Alcega's >Tailors pattern book...I have looked every where. I have seen some of the >patterns for the book and have seen those patterns worked up....I really >really would like a copy > >Yis >Fionnbharr (finafyr@aol.com) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 18:41:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA17892 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:41:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA03217; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:39:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA05859 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:45:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from bratshb.uwc.edu (root@bratshb.uwc.edu [143.235.46.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA05854 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:45:23 -0700 (MST) From: pnomail@bratshb.uwc.edu Received: from Excelsior.bratshb.uwc.edu (ppp19shb.uwc.edu [143.235.46.19]) by bratshb.uwc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA00517 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 17:45:19 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990208174623.007abbd0@bratshb.uwc.edu> X-Sender: pnomail@bratshb.uwc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 17:46:23 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Juan de Alcega's"Tailors Pattern book" In-Reply-To: <199902082026.NAA25169@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pnomail@bratshb.uwc.edu Interlibrary loan is always an option if you simply want to read the book, not posess it. DJ At 01:26 PM 2/8/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Finafyr@aol.com > > >Does anyone know where I can get a copy or photo Copy of Juan de Alcega's >Tailors pattern book...I have looked every where. I have seen some of the >patterns for the book and have seen those patterns worked up....I really >really would like a copy > >Yis >Fionnbharr (finafyr@aol.com) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 18:56:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA17942 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:56:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA05985; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:54:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA08326 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:59:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay1.Hawaii.Edu (root@relay1.hawaii.edu [128.171.3.53]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id QAA08317 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:59:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from uhunix1.its.hawaii.edu ([128.171.44.6]) by relay1.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <152340(9)>; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:59:41 -1000 Received: from localhost by uhunix1.its.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <135678(4)>; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:59:37 -1000 Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:59:33 -1000 From: X-Sender: lisaleon@uhunix1 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Medieval panties? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990205091535.00c65e50@pop.slip.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: > Please post the pictures. I think the one in underwear is a man. I tend to think so too. The picture is at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/3212/bikini.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 19:13:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18044 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 19:13:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA09093; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 17:10:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA11063 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 17:16:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA11023 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 17:15:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.253.11.101 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:15:18 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Glass Aglets Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 19:09:57 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be53c1$f52e5340$f21fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Can you share your method with us? Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Stapelton, Gregory Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 9:24 AM To: 'h-costume@indra.com' Subject: RE: H-COST: Glass Aglets -Poster: "Stapelton, Gregory" Greetings, Danielle, :) > -----Original Message----- Yep. We're making them ourselves. Turns out, it's even easier than making a bead. It's just like making a small glass icicle. > Does this mean that your friend has a source for them?! Where can I get > some? > Gawain ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 22:18:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA18869 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:18:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA06065; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 20:16:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA03735 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 20:22:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA03720 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 20:22:08 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id IIYCa03212 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:13:18 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <428a7096.36bfa7ce@aol.com> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:13:18 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com Folkwear used to make a quilted petticoat pattern, which I have. I don't know if they still make it though. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 23:26:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA19167 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 23:26:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA14592; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:23:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA10452 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:29:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from dgs.dgsys.com (robin@dgs.dgsys.com [204.97.64.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA10445 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:29:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by dgs.dgsys.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA28640 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 23:29:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: dgs.dgsys.com: robin owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 23:29:42 -0500 (EST) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Thanks for citations In-Reply-To: <428a7096.36bfa7ce@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton Wow, this list is full of wonderful people. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for the fast response to my need for citations. My personal library is open to you all. (I'm working desperately to complete two papers for a deadline, so this may not be the last time I throw myself on the mercy and the collective wisdom of the list.) (And now I know *not* to put the word "help" at the start of a subject line. I see that my errant first try at sending my query did finally make it to the list, two days delayed by majordomo. Sorry for the repetition.) To give something back: A librarian friend just sent me a citation on a recent book that sounds luscious, but of which I had not heard till today: > Valerie Cumming, The visual history of costume accessories (London: > Batsford, 1998). [1500 to present]. Sounds like one more in the "visual history" series, and thus very promising, particularly given the author. Anyone know more? --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 8 23:53:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA19280 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 23:53:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA17782; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:51:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA12830 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:57:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.gmx.net (qmailr@mail1.gmx.net [195.63.104.61]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id VAA12821 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:57:12 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902090457.VAA12821@indra.com> Received: (qmail 21772 invoked by uid 0); 9 Feb 1999 04:57:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jacomo) (203.216.65.95) by mail1.gmx.net with SMTP; 9 Feb 1999 04:57:08 -0000 X-Sender: marquise_de_pompadour@gmx.net@pop.gmx.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 13:47:10 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pompadour Subject: Re: H-COST: Medieval panties? In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990205091535.00c65e50@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id XAA19280 Status: O -Poster: Pompadour At 23:59 08.02.99 , you wrote: >> Please post the pictures.  I think the one in underwear is a man. > >I tend to think so too.  The picture is at >http://www.geocit ies.com/Athens/Delphi/3212/bikini.html IMHO definitely a man. any i's say it's a bathhouse scene, which is, according to my history teacher, the same as a brothel scene. one of the reasons why people believed that bathing too often was unhealthy was, she said, that they frequently caught sexual diseases from those bathhouses.... ciao, yo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 9 00:39:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA20101 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 00:39:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA22645; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:35:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA17524 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:41:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA17511 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:41:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (pilot [129.127.36.15]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id QAA08830 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:11:33 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA10059; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:11:32 +1030 Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:11:31 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@pilot To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Late 15th c clothing In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990208172814.00799530@cc.newcastle.edu.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Tricia Ostwald wrote: > > I made myself several of those last year - based on the French Tapestries > from about 1500 called Lives of the Nobles or something like that. My book > is at home and its in French. Yes, I found a similar sounding book in the library here. The French tapestries of this time are an excellent resource for this style of dress. > > Basically, (it looks to me) - if the undergown is laced/hooked up the > front, then the overgown has the V back and is laced (with a single lace) > across. When the overgown is hooked at the front (no visible fastenings) > then the undergown does up the back - and I made both high at the back - > I'll have to go back to the tapestry book to rethink through my reasoning > for that - other than it seemed sensible. > > The back laced version stays up pretty well. I was inclining to the front hooked/laced (invisibly) overgown myself, since I get to put it on by myself *grin* I've also seen some that have a v-neck at the front, and seem to wrap over....not sure how they fasten, or whether they are just held on by the belt like a dressing gown. I've not seen a good picture showing what happens at the waist. > > >The hoods worn with these dresses seem to have many variations, but leaving > >aside gable hoods, there are quite a few that look like the women are > >wearing something that might evolve into the French hood underneath. > >Boucher says this is a 'headband' and other writers say it is an undercap, > >but it looks nothing like a coif. Any ideas how it might be made? > > The 1500s french style hoods - haven't yet evolved into the "French Hoods". > I've made 2 successful versions using a lined hood pinned to a coif. The > bit that looks like the cresent of the french hood is the lining of the > older style hood, that has been turned back. Have a look at the portrait of > Queen Claude (I think?) for a better view. > Yeah, I've seen some that look like they are just turned back, but some quite definitely seem to have something underneath. > I've made both these and the Anne Boleyn style (and later) french hoods - > also worn over a coif, and I think the transition is pretty straight > forward. Not sure what Boucher means by headband tho? The cresent portion? Yes, there's a portrait in the book that shows what she means. It doesn't look like the girl in the piccy is wearing a coif, but does look like the beginnings of a billiment on something sitting just under the hood. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 9 02:04:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA20597 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 02:04:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA00415; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 00:02:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA23614 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 00:08:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail3.sirius.com (mail3.sirius.com [205.134.253.133]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA23609 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 00:08:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.134.245.138] (ppp-asok07--138.sirius.net [205.134.245.138]) by mail3.sirius.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA25309 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 23:07:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902090707.XAA25309@mail3.sirius.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: World War 2 patterns Date: Mon, 8 Feb 99 23:07:56 -0800 x-sender: haggis@pop.sirius.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Pelikan To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Pelikan >Melanie, > I am trying to make the 1937 or 1940 Battle Dress uniform and the Denison >Smock that was used by the Paratrooper units during the War. > >Thanks, >Tom If you're looking for a good Dennison smock repro, contact Harlan Glenn at King and Country. His stuff is excellent. Steve Pelikan haggis@sirus.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 9 05:34:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA27055 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 05:34:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA09747; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 03:32:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA26159 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 03:38:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA25975 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 03:37:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.112] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10AAY1-0003f7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 02:37:42 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990207105425.00c7dee0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990207105425.00c7dee0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 11:02:06 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: fancy dress In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Fancy Dress was quite popular with the upper classes in 19c and early 20c >England, when there was a fad for finding 17 c clothing in your attic and >reworking it to wear. Some people simply had new clothing made in old >styles, which explains some of the strange clothing found in English >collections -- style may be 17c, but sewing techniques and shaping aren't. One of the few originals I own is a hybrid dress like this, 'obsoleted' out of the San Francisco Opera stock. It was clearly made in about 1922, with a dropped waist and a full skirt starting at the hips. But the dress itself is 'Georgian'. It is pale blue silk like from a saree, with metalic silver threads in a spot pattern and a hem pattern. It has gathered chiffon sleeve ruffles. 1900s-20's doing Georgian is my favourite period for silly. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 9 06:06:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA27180 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 06:06:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA10910; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 04:04:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA12101 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 04:10:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from otis.netspace.net.au (oldotis.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.190]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA11878; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 04:10:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by otis.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id WAA13928; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:10:12 +1100 (EST) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t1-178.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.250.178]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id WAA00185; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:11:59 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199902091111.WAA00185@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: , Subject: H-COST: Going away Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:13:47 +1100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" Dear all, I am temporarily unsubscrining from my mailing lists seeing I am about to enter final panic stage before traveling from Australia to Costume Con 17, See yas next month, -C. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 9 09:07:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27969 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:07:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA20835; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:05:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA16353 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:11:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from teapot16.domain4.bigpond.com (teapot16.domain4.bigpond.com [139.134.5.164]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id HAA16343 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:11:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by teapot16.domain4.bigpond.com (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id la429401 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:04:45 +1000 Received: from EXIP-T-001-p-201-175.tmns.net.au ([139.134.201.175]) by mail4.bigpond.com (Claudes-Courteous-MailRouter V2.2b 7/469428); 10 Feb 1999 00:04:45 Message-ID: Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "David Scanlon" Date: Wed, 10 Feb 99 01:06:49 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id JAA27969 Status: O -Poster: "David Scanlon" Hello, This is obviously my first letter. I am from Australia, I am 34, and have been costuming for four years. I started of doing Gothic only. Lately though I have branched into many other types of costume. The list of things I want to make though is the most important. I have been looking for a place for discussion on costume. This looks like fun. I am going to Philadelphia in less than 48 hours, butterflies have set up residence in my belly. It's my first time out of Australia, is anyone going? Not much time for a conversation but I thought I'd say hello before I go to USA. Seeya. David. ÿ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 9 15:07:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA29635 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:07:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA06502; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:04:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA18929 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:10:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f134.hotmail.com [207.82.251.13]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA18916 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:10:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 987 invoked by uid 0); 9 Feb 1999 20:09:37 -0000 Message-ID: <19990209200937.986.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.206.84.216 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 09 Feb 1999 12:09:37 PST X-Originating-IP: [208.206.84.216] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists: surviving garments? Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 12:09:37 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >I own an 1898 bodice which is so small that the smaller of my daughters >couldn't wear it after she was about 5 or 6 (I tried it on her once about >then). The waist is about 22" measured by the waist band, hook to eye. >And I have looked at the waist measurements of the garments in Nancy >Bradfield's Costume In Detail, which go back to the 1700's. > >I believe 22"-teensy, I just don't believe 15"-teensy. If this were >anything like common I would expect to encounter more teensy-waist antique >garments in collections. I have seen none. Has anyone else on this list? OK, I know I'm late with this post, but here's my 2c -- Not counting the year I was nursing my first child, until I was pregnant with my second child at age 30, I had a 23" waist, naturally without corseting. I am small boned, five feet tall, and not unnaturally thin. After five children, my waist is about 25 1/2 to 26 inches, depending on the time of the month. I do exercise regularly, (in addition to the energy needed for running after all those babies!) and I eat normally. I weigh about 107. My hips are 36 - 37 inches. I am nearing my 40th birthday. The funny thing is, I can't seem to corset down to below 23", the bulk of the corset itself seems to preclude this, or maybe I just don't try hard enough. I cannot think that most women, however concerned they may have been with fashion, corseted to the extent that many moderns seem to believe. You just can't move and breathe all day like that. I am used to corseting, all periods from 1760 to 1860s, and there are differences between periods. I actually find 1820s - 30s corseting to be more comfortable than modern undergarments. It's just my body & the way it's built. Again, like in discussions of this nature before, we cannot actually know what it was like for our forebears unless we are willing to go through exactly what they did, day after day and week after week. I have worn period corseting all day, every day for a year and a half. Because of this experience, I am inclined to think that many 18th & 19th c. women, because of being corseted, did have somewhat smaller waists than we find in modern women. Most of us, with our sweatsuit-loving lifestyle, will not put up with being corseted in any way for more than a few hours. Being corseted does help keep you from overeating, by the way. And have you ever tried to drink a Coke in an 18th c. corset? Big mistake. Heartburn city. Susannah ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 9 16:10:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA29960 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:10:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA17480; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:07:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA00189 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:13:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA00173 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:13:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p6.directcon.net [206.170.184.55]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA29603 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:07:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:07:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902092107.NAA29603@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: 1850's questions Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson I am planning to make myself a new 1850's wardrobe. I will be wearing it for social events and reenacting, and, hopefully, advertising my work. I need a ball gown suitable for a cold climate (lake Tahoe) in early spring, a day/work dress suitable for very hot weather, and a dressier street costume, also for hot weather, which I would like to make me look like a very sucessful but not respectable business woman. In fact, I'd like this costume to convey that I run the best House in town. My most pressing problem is that I'm currently losing weight at the rate of about 8-10 pounds a month, which means that I'll probably drop several sizes during this time. Any suggestions on the best way to make these costumes easy to alter? I"ve done theater work and plan to construct the corset and bodices so that the side seams can be taken in easily. Are there any other good tricks? Since I'll be wearing these costumes in hot weather, in the 90's or 100's, I'd prefer hoops to lots of petticoats. I'm considering making a "cage" crinoline such as Hunnisett shows. Do these have any actual advantage over hooped petticoats, or do they just look incredibly cool? (as in panache, not temperature) Since I don't expect that I can continue to alter these clothes down forever, I only plan to wear them for one year. Therefore, I'd rather not spend a fortune on fabric. I have a plaid cotton for the day/work dress. I'm trying to decide about that ball gown: I know silk would be proper, but at that price....was faille or moire used by more "mature" ladies? (I'm 41). I'm also thinking of tulle or net, pobably black, over a color. A la Worth, you know? I'm fairly stumped for the "madam" costume. What would be a suitable fabric for really hot weather, that would still get the character across? I don't mind being hot, I've worked RPFN in noble costume, but this time I'm not pretending it's England. What would an expensively dressed woman wear for streetwear in California summer weather? Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 9 16:35:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA30049 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:35:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA21713; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:32:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA04596 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:38:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from vail.telesensory.com ([12.7.233.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA04569 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:38:49 -0700 (MST) Received: by vail with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:39:23 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Vickers, Jill" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: 15" waists: surviving garments? Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:39:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Vickers, Jill" > -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" > > The funny thing is, I can't seem to corset down to below 23", the bulk > of the corset itself seems to preclude this, or maybe I just don't try > hard enough. I cannot think that most women, however concerned they > may have been with fashion, corseted to the extent that many moderns > seem to believe. You just can't move and breathe all day like that. > > Interesting that this subject was brought up again today! I tried on my c.1860 corset just this morning to see if it fit (I've been losing weight, so I've been trying on *all* my old clothes!). It was made for me almost 10 years ago when I was a bit smaller, and it was too big for me then (i.e. my waist was the same size, if not larger, in the corset). Well, I got into it all right. I got my waist down two inches, but everything above and below my waist was pushed out of the corset, producing a not-so-attractive silhouette, although I could still breathe OK. I can't imagine that this particular corset will ever be right, so I'm going to break it down and re-use the steels and busk (it's been worn maybe 3 times at most). Anyhow, I figure that if you've been corseted from a young age consistently (i.e. daily, and all day) eventually you get used to it and can cinch it in more as time passes (take that 50 year old woman from the late 1950's with the 13" waist-I can't recall her name). Besides that, from the photos I've seen of the mid-late 19th century, it seemed the women who did corset could afford to do very little, so being able to move about was not as much an issue. The most I do is wear a belt, and even that usually bugs me because I'm very short waisted and I end up with most waistbands around my lower ribs. I will surely never be able to corset well, so I think that being able to get 2" off my waist is *great*. After all, for re-enactment, you can only work with what resources are currently available! -Jill _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 9 16:58:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA30256 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:58:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA24870; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:55:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA09058 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:02:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from bodyguard.apsc.com (bodyguard.apsc.com [137.91.114.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA09046 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:01:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.apsc.com (mailhub.apsc.commailhub.apsc.com [137.91.1.30]) by apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA03073 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:13:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from nt219.apsc.com (nt219.apsc.com [137.91.1.75]) by mailhub.apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA03167 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:01:25 -0700 (MST) Received: by nt219.apsc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:01:37 -0700 Message-ID: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3017B06FC@nt13pv.apsc.com> From: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked by Janet Arnold availability?? Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:01:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" Does anyone know where you can purchase this book and how much it costs? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 9 17:02:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA30309 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:02:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA25716; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:00:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA09927 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:06:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA09894 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:06:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA25269 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:09:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA27486 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:07:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:07:52 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked by Janet Arnold availability?? In-Reply-To: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3017B06FC@nt13pv.apsc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed You can get it at the UK Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.co.uk) at around 90 pounds. Drea On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001) wrote: > > -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" > > Does anyone know where you can purchase this book and how much it costs? > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 9 17:02:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA30316 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:02:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA25737; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:00:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA09933 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:06:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA09908 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:06:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA19865 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:06:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C0B188.84738229@serv.net> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 14:07:04 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked by Janet Arnold availability?? References: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3017B06FC@nt13pv.apsc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True I saw today it new at www.greenduck.com for $180 US. Cynthia Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001) wrote: > -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" > > Does anyone know where you can purchase this book and how much it costs? > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 9 18:10:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA30995 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:10:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA06335; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:08:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA22769 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:14:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from Mackie.com (mackie1.mackie.com [209.168.18.190]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id QAA22758 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:14:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from Mackie-Message_Server by Mackie.com with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 09 Feb 1999 15:12:21 -0800 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 15:12:01 -0800 From: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Sources for Italian Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id SAA30995 Status: O -Poster: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" Hello List, I am looking for sources to use for documenting an Italian "cotehardie". I am not sure if this is the appropriate name, but it conveys the style that I am looking for - narrow arms, fitted to the hips and full skirt. I am hoping that someone here on the list may be able to help point me toward some books or paintings. Some of the paintings that I have already looked at are "...Good Government: City Life" and the Legend of the True Cross series. There seems to be one painting by Bartolo di Fredi that depicts the dress style that I am looking for (darn, wish I had my notebook with me at work), but I can't seem to find his stuff anywhere in color. Any ideas where to look? If there's a better/more appropriate name than cotehardie, please let me know. (Henk, I am hoping that you have some info....) Also, any paintings that shows these dresses from the back? The ones that I have mentioned only have front views and I am trying to determine if the dress should lace up the back. (None of the ones I've looked at show front lacing.) Keeping my fingers crossed, Colleen McDonald Hinrichs _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 9 18:48:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA31174 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:48:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA13633; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:46:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA29830 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:52:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from hummer.tci.net (hummer.TCI.NET [209.19.4.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA29771 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:52:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303-a (C59303-A.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.4.53.172]) by hummer.tci.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id 1LLCGF00; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:52:24 -0700 Message-ID: <00b301be5489$db8f31c0$ac350418@c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked by Janet Arnold availability?? Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:08:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" Amazon Dry Goods sells it in the US for 139.95 1-800-798-7979 Sincerely, Ches aka Chiara Francesca Virtual Scribe for 20th year http://www.ansteorra.org/20thyr/ -----Original Message----- From: Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001) To: 'h-costume@indra.com' Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 3:56 PM Subject: H-COST: Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked by Janet Arnold availability?? : :-Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" : :Does anyone know where you can purchase this book and how much it costs? : _________________________________________________________________ : To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com : with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME : _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 9 19:30:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA31412 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:30:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA21075; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:27:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA06622 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:33:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA06608 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:33:03 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 4VKVa01428 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:19:19 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <333e30f8.36c0d087@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:19:19 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850's questions Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 2/9/99 4:16:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << I'm fairly stumped for the "madam" costume. What would be a suitable fabric for really hot weather, that would still get the character across? I don't mind being hot, I've worked RPFN in noble costume, but this time I'm not pretending it's England. What would an expensively dressed woman wear for streetwear in California summer weather? >> I'm always amazed at how light many period dresses are.....I mean the silks are thin! Not always sheer but many times gauzy fabrics are used. I've seen gauze wools with a window pane pattern woven in a twill. I don't suggest you wear wool gauze but you might think about this: Make a beautiful corset cover with wide decolletage, short sleeves and a lovely petticoat to match of fine white cotton perhaps enriched with eyelet & tucks. Now make a linen/cotton gauze gown to go over it. Surely you can fine a lovely colorful print or woven pattern. Cut the dress differently from the undergarments so they are striking on their own as they show thru the gauze dress. Perhaps with a high neck & a la verge CF. wide ruffle bell sleeves & some ruffles on the skirt and Tah Dah!!! a light breezy yet elegant & opulent gown. Just a suggestion. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 9 21:30:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA31990 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:30:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA08804; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:28:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA21827 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:34:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA21818 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:34:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a17.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.145]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA27878 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:32:54 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36C0EFD2.EDFE2F83@nash.tds.net> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 20:32:50 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Medieval panties? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat lisaleon@hawaii.edu wrote: > > > Please post the pictures. I think the one in underwear > > is a man. > > I tend to think so too. The picture is at > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/3212/bikini.html Another vote for it being male from me...it looks more like acknowledged male figures in woodcuts I've seen of the same period in the face than a female. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 9 22:29:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA32217 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:29:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA17025; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:22:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA28175 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:28:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA28166 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:28:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from erols.com (207-172-142-85.s85.tnt21.brd.erols.com [207.172.142.85]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA12425 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:29:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36C0FD57.AA8E9826@erols.com> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 22:30:31 -0500 From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Bridge Enterprizes X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Eighteenth Century Velvet Nightcap References: <000001be5260$baa89120$0c14ffd0@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David S. Mallinak" Hope H. Dunlap wrote: > Can anyone explain to me how to draft a pattern for the big > floppy velvet nightcap which English and American men wore > at home instead of their wigs in 18th Century Georgian > times? Some references call it a nightcap or turban, sometimes > tasselled. I believe that Smoke and Fire has packet of patterns for 18th century headwear. I could not find in my mess that is my house so I can't give you the exact name. I will continue to search and let you know. ================================================================== David S Mallinak : The ultimate measure of a person is not ISTJ : where they stand in moments of comfort Reenactor : and convenience, but where they stand matchlck@erols.com : at time of challenge and controversy. ================================================================== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 9 22:47:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA32291 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:47:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA19839; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:46:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA00966 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:51:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA00897; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:51:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-62-145.s145.tnt2.rcm.erols.com [207.172.62.145]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA28586; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:51:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000101be54a8$aadb72e0$913eaccf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: "costume newsgroup" Subject: H-COST: Online Mardi Gras Ball 99 Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:51:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" Friday, we are off for a week to Mardi Gras! (A vacation we have promised our kids for 20 years.) This is my second favorite time of year. Home for the holidays... now, I can go back to talking in my southern French accent. The Online Mardi Gras Ball 1999 will begin on The Costume Gallery this Sunday! You may find it at http://www.costumegallery.com/Costume_Ball/MardiGras/99.html Saturday, we will be in Mobile, Alabama. Mobile is the birthplace of Mardi Gras in the U.S. This year, Mobile is celebrating 300 years of the holiday. Sunday, I will be adding images of the Mobile's costumes to the website. Later Sunday, we will be going to a smaller parade on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. These images MIGHT get up on the webpage on Monday. (We are having a big party with friends and family at the casinos.) Monday night, we will be in New Orleans for Harry Connick, Jr.'s parade. This images might be up on the website later that night. It depends on what time we get back to Slidell. Tuesday, Mardi Gras day, we will be back in New Orleans at sunrise and leaving at sunset. I hope to have some of these costume images up on the website by Wednesday noon. Then we come back home. There are two Mardi Gras museums we hope to get to see. One is in Mobile and the other is in Biloxi, Mississippi (my home town). Both promise lots of costumes. A fun thing about Mardi Gras in New Orleans is that the people on the streets are in the most creative costumes. I can't wait to get pictures of them. We will be video taping all the parades. My main focus is on the costumes. We bought a fancy piece of software that will freeze pictures from our video tapes. The images look great! My family has been playing with it all night. I am very excited to use the software because we can freeze front, side and back views of costumes. Then you can send the pictures out on the web. We also have all sorts of cameras to take pictures with. We are moving into another state of the art in internet imaging. Now ya'll know where I got my love for costuming. It was growing up with Mardi Gras. I will be signing off all the email lists, Wednesday night. If you want to contact me after that, please do so through mardi.gras@costumegallery.com Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 9 23:13:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA32383 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:13:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA23349; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:11:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA04200 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:17:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA04187 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:17:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-242.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.242]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA10162 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:17:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990209222506.0093d780@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 22:25:06 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: RE: H-COST: Glass Aglets In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings Gawain, >Yep. We're making them ourselves. Turns out, it's even easier than making >a bead. It's just like making a small glass icicle. OOOOOOOOooooooo! OOOOOOOoooooo! OOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo! Please bring some with you to Toronto if you can!!!!! I would love to see them/get my hands on them! Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 9 23:13:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA32387 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:13:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA23361; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:11:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA04201 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:17:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA04183 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:17:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-242.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.242]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA10154 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:17:13 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990209221835.0096c270@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 22:18:35 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: grow tucks In-Reply-To: <36BE7162.7FFBEB45@flash.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >There was a discuss not too long ago on these Spanish hems. I don't >recall if a conclusion was ever reached, but they're not likely to be >growth tucks because they're found on adults as well. I followed the discussion avidly and don't remember a conclusion ever being reached. If I remember correctly, even the EXPERTS couldn't figure it out. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 06:54:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA08157 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:54:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA26555; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 04:53:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA05158 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 04:58:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from hil-img-3.compuserve.com (hil-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.177.133]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA05151 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 04:58:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hil-img-3.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id GAA00727 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:57:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:57:24 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: World War 2 Uniforms To: LIST historic costume Message-ID: <199902100657_MC2-69F2-EAAC@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id GAA08157 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson Try this page for some links http://home.inreach.com/arnhem/links.htm Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 07:29:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA08294 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:29:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA28043; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:29:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA07006 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:34:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from m4.boston.juno.com (m4.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.198]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA06884 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from alysea@juno.com) by m4.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D24KYL8E; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:33:23 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:30:28 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850's questions Message-ID: <19990210.073519.19734.0.Alysea@juno.com> References: <199902092107.NAA29603@zeus.directcon.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-6,8-79 From: Karen J Farris Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Karen J Farris Margo--I have actually seen and reproduced a day-dress from that period which had no waist seam! It was done entirely princess seamed! Seems that might be easy on alterations. It buttoned entirely down the front, with a small "Peter Pan" style collar and bishop sleeves. Hope this helps. karen Farris On Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:07:14 -0800 (PST) Margo Anderson writes: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >I am planning to make myself a new 1850's wardrobe. I will be wearing >it >for social events and reenacting, and, hopefully, advertising my work. > > >I need a ball gown suitable for a cold climate (lake Tahoe) in early >spring, >a day/work dress suitable for very hot weather, and a dressier street >costume, also for hot weather, which I would like to make me look like >a >very sucessful but not respectable business woman. In fact, I'd like >this >costume to convey that I run the best House in town. > >My most pressing problem is that I'm currently losing weight at the >rate of >about 8-10 pounds a month, which means that I'll probably drop several >sizes >during this time. Any suggestions on the best way to make these >costumes >easy to alter? I"ve done theater work and plan to construct the >corset and >bodices so that the side seams can be taken in easily. Are there any >other >good tricks? > >Since I'll be wearing these costumes in hot weather, in the 90's or >100's, >I'd prefer hoops to lots of petticoats. I'm considering making a >"cage" >crinoline such as Hunnisett shows. Do these have any actual advantage >over >hooped petticoats, or do they just look incredibly cool? (as in >panache, >not temperature) > >Since I don't expect that I can continue to alter these clothes down >forever, I only plan to wear them for one year. Therefore, I'd rather >not >spend a fortune on fabric. I have a plaid cotton for the day/work >dress. >I'm trying to decide about that ball gown: I know silk would be >proper, but >at that price....was faille or moire used by more "mature" ladies? >(I'm 41). >I'm also thinking of tulle or net, pobably black, over a color. A la >Worth, >you know? > >I'm fairly stumped for the "madam" costume. What would be a suitable >fabric >for really hot weather, that would still get the character across? I >don't >mind being hot, I've worked RPFN in noble costume, but this time I'm >not >pretending it's England. What would an expensively dressed woman wear >for >streetwear in California summer weather? > > > >Margo Anderson > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 07:34:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA08319 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:33:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA28323; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:33:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA07219 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:38:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA07214 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:38:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.202] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10AYuA-0004E7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 04:38:11 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990210043214.00c89d30@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 04:33:33 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 In-Reply-To: <36BB7C2E.6E766F4D@vaxxine.com> References: <000001be4cbe$46eeb9a0$2817ffd0@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I have a vague memory that someone asked for a source for early 18th >century >quilted petticoat patterns recently. Both a whole cloth quilt and a >petticoat of >c. 1700-1730 are illustrated on pages 20-21 in the following: > >"Philadelphia: Three Centuries of American Art. Philadelphia Museum of >Art, 1990. >0-87633-016-2 Several of these illustrated in Nancy Bradfield's 'Costume In Detail'. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 07:46:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA08370 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:46:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA28792; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:45:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA07848 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:50:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA07827 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:49:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) id <01J7KUFGNKS000GC2R@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:43:51 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) with ESMTP id <01J7KUBNALUS00EWCN@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:28:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.43); Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:26:10 +0000 (GMT0BST) Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.43); Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:25:53 +0000 (GMT0BST) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:25:46 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: H-COST: MASQUE 7 (British Costume Convention) Details To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Teddy Hello all who wanted details of this year's British Costume Convention. The following is all copied from their PR (all payment amounts are listed in English pounds) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Masque 7 will take place on Friday 10th - Sunday 12th September 1999 at Dudley Campus University of Wolverhampton Membership Rates; Until 14th April 1999: 25 Until 30th August 1999: 30 Thereafter: 35 Day membership: 15 Children (5 - 12 years inclusive): Half price Cheques should be made payable to "Masque 7" and sent to: Masque 7 Hamstead Hall Road Handsworth Wood Birmingham B20 1JB England. Accomodation has been arranged in the University residences on campus. All rooms are singles and contain (in addition to the bed, one supposes) wash-basin, wardrobe and table. Payment for these is in advance and *must* be made no later than Thursday 12th August 1999. Friday night B&B 19:50 (Friday night bed and Saturday morning breakfast) Saturday/Sunday 36 hour residential rate 44:50 (Saturday &Sunday; morning and afternoon tea/coffee and biscuits, lunch; Saturday two course dinner, bed for the night; Sunday breakfast) Sunday night B&B 19:50 (Sunday night bed and Monday morning breakfast) Day meal rate: 10:00 per day (for anyone not staying on campus: Morning and afternoon tea/coffee and biscuits and two course lunch) Special diets may be catered for but details are needed before 30th may 1999. Programme (edited highlights - I'm not typing the whole thing!!) The usual 3 Masquerades (competitions) - the Science Fiction/Fantasy, the Historical and the Anything Goes. Workshops and demonstrations (planned to date) - Characterisation in Costume Presentations - Avril Lansdell and Penny Hill - Body Painting - Paul Holroyd - Make Up - DJ Bass (Yet to be confirmed include; Drop spindle spinning, making buttons and fastenings, altering your figure through design, hatmaking) - th Chaos Costume workshop will run throughout the weekend as usual, organized by Jaine Weddell, with face-painting/make-up support from DJ Bass on the Sunday morning (<>) Ideas, suggestions and volunteers are welcome! Please contact the organizers at the Masque 7 address by 30th May - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I hope this helps. As I have already mentioned, the organizers do not have web access or e-mail, but I will be in touch with them by telephone and would be happy to pass on messages and enquiries from anyone on H-costume. Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 08:34:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA08570 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:34:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA02386; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:33:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA11445 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:38:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA11433 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:38:27 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id NANKa03463 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:37:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <123180a1.36c18b8a@aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:37:14 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Eighteenth Century Velvet Nightcap Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 2/9/99 10:32:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, matchlck@erols.com writes: << Can anyone explain to me how to draft a pattern for the big > floppy velvet nightcap which English and American men wore > at home instead of their wigs in 18th Century Georgian > times? >> I had a friend who actually owned a real one [probably from late in the period or perhaps the early 1800s] It consisted of 4 pieces shaped not unlike the hot plate of your average steam iron: ^ * * * * * * * * *-----------* *______ * The 4 pieces were sewn together & a tassel put at the top point. The bottom was turned up about 2 1/2 inches. It was indeed velvet [midnight blue] and each panel was embroidered with delicate scrolling flowers & leaves in greens, yellows, pinks, & light blues. The facing on the turn back was also embroidered. I'd say [from memory] it was about 8" to 10" high after turning back the bottom. It was lined with a light weight black silk. I made one out of white linen for another friend and embroidered the 4 panels in black floss [something representing each season of the year per panel] which didn't take long at all...about 10 days. Unfortunately it was lost in the mail and never seen again!!!!! For that reason I've not done another....but now it's time to get over that. It was easy & striking. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 08:36:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA08580 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:36:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA02659; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:35:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA11655 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:40:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from bodyguard.apsc.com (bodyguard.apsc.com [137.91.114.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA11650 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:40:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.apsc.com (mailhub.apsc.commailhub.apsc.com [137.91.1.30]) by apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA23346 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:52:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from nt219.apsc.com (nt219.apsc.com [137.91.1.75]) by mailhub.apsc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA25687 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:40:10 -0700 (MST) Received: by nt219.apsc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:40:13 -0700 Message-ID: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3017B0701@nt13pv.apsc.com> From: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: dressed 'au dernier cri' - what does this mean? Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:40:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" I am reading a biography on Queen Anne (the daughter of James Stuart II ~1680) by David Green. There is a reference made to a portrait (by an unknown French artist) which describes her as being dressed 'au dernier cri' . Does anyone know what that means? When describing how she is dressed and coiffed it says 'High on her check she sports, as she often did, a patch.' The reproduction is not good, so I can't see anything on her cheeks. What might the 'patch' be? A faked 'beauty mark'?? Saragrace Knauf Ext. 82-5248 Pager: 2969 "I never give them hell, I just tell them the truth and they think its hell" Harry Truman _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 08:50:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA08627 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:50:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA03737; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:49:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA12919 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:54:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA12903 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:54:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.202] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10Aa5i-0004pT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:54:11 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990210053153.00abae70@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990210053153.00abae70@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:34:59 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST - Bronzino's "Lady with a Puppy" In-Reply-To: <36BDF44C.F372656A@earthlink.net> References: <4.1.19990206095431.00c82650@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Scott Hulett writes, in a message sent 12:15 PM 2/7/99 -0800: > > Carolyn, > I've seen and made this sort of shirt. It is very simple to make though > not easy and looks beautiful when finished. So when I got to the web page I recognized the portrait. I hadn't realized it was a Bronzino. Anyway, I wrote this big post back to the people in question telling how I would make the shirt. When I read yours it was so good I threw mine away. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 08:50:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA08631 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:50:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA03723; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:49:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA12914 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:54:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA12899 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:54:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.202] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10Aa5g-0004pT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:54:09 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990210050646.00c94390@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:26:36 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan Gloves In-Reply-To: <20335-36BB987A-952@mailtod-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I'm looking for information on Elizabethan gloves. I have tried to find >several books, however they are out of print, and virtually impossible >to find. I need to know how they were cut and contructed. Inter-library loan can find these books. Meanwhile, there are three photos of Elizabethan gloves in Davenport (ills. 1476, 1477, 1478, p. 564). Each one is cut differently. Davenport should be easy to find. >I failed to mention in my previous e-mails, that the gloves I would like >to make are something similar to the ones presented to Queen Elizabeth >on her visit to Oxford in 1566.(pictured in Accessories of Dress p.361) Oh, if you already have a picture, use any glove pattern which has the correct thumb. There are many ways to do the seam where the thumb attaches to the hand. Research the right one for your period. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 08:53:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA08641 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:52:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA04039; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:52:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA13260 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:57:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f110.hotmail.com [207.82.250.229]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id GAA13254 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:57:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 16854 invoked by uid 0); 10 Feb 1999 13:56:39 -0000 Message-ID: <19990210135639.16853.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.206.84.216 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:56:39 PST X-Originating-IP: [208.206.84.216] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - surviving garments? Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:56:39 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" >-Poster: Robin Netherton > > >On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> I believe 22"-teensy, I just don't believe 15"-teensy. If this were >> anything like common I would expect to encounter more teensy-waist antique >> garments in collections. I have seen none. Has anyone else on this list? > >I was under the impression that the contemporary references to things like >15" waists were actually referring to the *corset* size, which was >measured in inches, and that a gap of as much as six inches could be left >between the edges when the corset was worn. It would thus make sense for >women to refer to their size as a "15-inch waist" the same way we talk >about being a "size 12" or a "33 inseam" or whatever. Today, unfamiliar >with this specialized use of "inch," we hear or read a quote saying >"15-inch waist" and we automatically think of actual inch measurements >around the waist. > >I wish I had a source for that, but it's something I read long ago and >filed away in my mind as an interesting bit of trivia -- this is not my >period of study. Perhaps someone else can confirm? I wonder if old Sears >catalogs had sizing information :-) > >--Robin > > Saundra Altman, owner of Past Patterns, cites many references in her documentation for her corset patterns to this effect. Sorry, I thought or assumed we all knew this already. The corset size is actually 2 - 3 inches smaller than the measurement of the "finished" waist while wearing, because of the allowance for gap, or "spring" at the back where it is laced. If a corset actually meets in the back, it cannot support you correctly, because it will stretch and give while being worn, and cause gaps at the front that can pinch or at the very least, feel uncomfortable. So a corset with a 15" waist would more than likely produce a finished 18" waist measurement while being worn. The measurements I gave in my last post took this into account --that is, my 23" finished waist measurement was while wearing a corset with a 21" or so waist measurement. Does everybody understand this? (Whew! I'm out of breath, or something like that...) Susannah ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 09:16:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA08740 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:16:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA06532; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:15:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA15463 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:20:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA15442 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:20:25 -0700 (MST) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 1TWMa26290 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:18:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <57869a46.36c19525@aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:18:13 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850's questions Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com I haven't made the cage crinoline from Hunniset but I have made the net petticoat which she uses as a substitute for all the full-skirted 19th C styles leading up to the hoop. I thought it was wonderfully easy and fast to make and far lighter and less cumbersome than wearing a bunch of real petticoats. If you decide against the crinoline I'd recommend the net petticoat. You may want to line it with some actual fabric though, the net can be scratchy. Cheers, Loren Dearborn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 09:30:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA08789 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:30:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA08107; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:29:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA17178 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:33:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA17170 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:33:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from 132.198.103.242 (132.198.103.242) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.6F0302D0@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 9:33:36 -0500 Message-ID: <36C19920.1C3E@uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:35:16 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: dressed 'au dernier cri' - what does this mean? References: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3017B0701@nt13pv.apsc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hope Greenberg To be au courant! au dernier cri - the last cry, thus the latest word in fashion - Hope _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 09:35:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA08809 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:35:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA08902; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:34:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA17846 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:39:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA17839 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:39:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.57 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:38:58 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Sources for Italian Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:17:08 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be5503$c6c95a20$3922ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" It would be helpful if you could specify the historical range of dates and ideally the place in Italy that you wish to represent. An "Italian cathedra" is such a general term, that it is impossible to suggest anything more than a general answer. There are a number of excellent books on Italian historical costume, and the tradition of engraving and painting is perhaps older and richer in Italy than anywhere else, so there is a lot of original material available in books of paintings in libraries and on the Web. Can you give us a hint regarding your time period, so we can hit this one with some accuracy? Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Colleen McDonald Hinrichs Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 6:12 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Sources for Italian -Poster: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" Hello List, I am looking for sources to use for documenting an Italian "cotehardie". I am not sure if this is the appropriate name, but it conveys the style that I am looking for - narrow arms, fitted to the hips and full skirt. I am hoping that someone here on the list may be able to help point me toward some books or paintings. Some of the paintings that I have already looked at are "...Good Government: City Life" and the Legend of the True Cross series. There seems to be one painting by Bartolo di Fredi that depicts the dress style that I am looking for (darn, wish I had my notebook with me at work), but I can't seem to find his stuff anywhere in color. Any ideas where to look? If there's a better/more appropriate name than cotehardie, please let me know. (Henk, I am hoping that you have some info....) Also, any paintings that shows these dresses from the back? The ones that I have mentioned only have front views and I am trying to determine if the dress should lace up the back. (None of the ones I've looked at show front lacing.) Keeping my fingers crossed, Colleen McDonald Hinrichs ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 09:57:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA08885 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:57:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA11589; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:56:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA20628 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:01:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA20620 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:01:29 -0700 (MST) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id DJKSa20555 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:57:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:57:31 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: dressed 'au dernier cri' - what does this mean? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com Essentially it means "the very latest word". To be dressed "au dernier cri", then , is to be dressed in the very latest style. Cheers-- albra _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 10:01:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08908 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:01:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA12289; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:00:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA21144 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:05:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from Mackie.com (mackie1.mackie.com [209.168.18.190]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id IAA21128 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:05:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from Mackie-Message_Server by Mackie.com with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:07:24 -0800 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:06:56 -0800 From: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Sources for Italian Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id KAA08908 Status: O -Poster: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" For a time period - something between 1350 and 1450... I realize this is not terribly specific; however, I don't have it nailed to a set time period. It's more whatever strikes my fancy out of the information that I find on this general time period. As for where, northern Italy, for sure - Florence, Siena, Milan perhaps. Again, same thing as before, I'm not going into this with a definitive time and place - it's more a case of "hmmm, there are all these different types and places and...this one here appeals to me most." Hoping this helps some, Colleen >>> "Hope H. Dunlap" 02/10/99 05:17AM >>> -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" It would be helpful if you could specify the historical range of dates and ideally the place in Italy that you wish to represent. An "Italian cathedra" is such a general term, that it is impossible to suggest anything more than a general answer. There are a number of excellent books on Italian historical costume, and the tradition of engraving and painting is perhaps older and richer in Italy than anywhere else, so there is a lot of original material available in books of paintings in libraries and on the Web. Can you give us a hint regarding your time period, so we can hit this one with some accuracy? Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Colleen McDonald Hinrichs Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 6:12 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Sources for Italian -Poster: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" Hello List, I am looking for sources to use for documenting an Italian "cotehardie". I am not sure if this is the appropriate name, but it conveys the style that I am looking for - narrow arms, fitted to the hips and full skirt. I am hoping that someone here on the list may be able to help point me toward some books or paintings. Some of the paintings that I have already looked at are "...Good Government: City Life" and the Legend of the True Cross series. There seems to be one painting by Bartolo di Fredi that depicts the dress style that I am looking for (darn, wish I had my notebook with me at work), but I can't seem to find his stuff anywhere in color. Any ideas where to look? If there's a better/more appropriate name than cotehardie, please let me know. (Henk, I am hoping that you have some info....) Also, any paintings that shows these dresses from the back? The ones that I have mentioned only have front views and I am trying to determine if the dress should lace up the back. (None of the ones I've looked at show front lacing.) Keeping my fingers crossed, Colleen McDonald Hinrichs ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 10:03:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08918 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:03:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA12641; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:02:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA21479 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:07:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from boomer.brightok.net (boomer.brightok.net [206.30.97.13]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA21450 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:07:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.brightok.net (sulphur4p198.cld.brightok.net [206.30.100.198]) by boomer.brightok.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA27961 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:07:06 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36C1A1C7.7953A3DC@mail.brightok.net> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:12:07 -0600 From: The Mulders X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Corset Question References: <19990210135639.16853.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Mulders Hi I'm new to the list but not to costumes. I have been designing and studying corsets for a while. Interesting subject. Something I've noticed no one has mentioned about the wearing of corsets that would explain the sizing. If the binding of ones feet in China from a child on would keep the foot small and not growing, so would a corset binding the body from childhood. The organs either shift position or never reach the placement of "normal" bodies. There are numerous ailments that can be contributed to corset wearing. Liver and spleen problems. These women started in a corset and hence the small size. They were also just smaller people and the measurements were not as standard as they are now. I have enjoyed reading the list and thanks to all. Moninya Odend'Hal-Mulder _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 10:25:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08988 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:25:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA16519; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:24:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA24541 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:29:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA24524 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:29:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.81] (ell42.acadia.net [205.217.218.26]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA04221 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:29:03 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:29:11 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: Queen Anne Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <<'au dernier cri'>> "The latest cry" -- the latest fashion, in other words. <> Yes, black patches in various shapes (up to and including hearts) were used on the face to simulate beauty marks, which of course, are moles. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 11:20:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09224 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:20:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA27358; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:19:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA03602 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:24:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA03590 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:24:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc1010062-a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with SMTP id <19990210162408.WDXI11472.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062-a> for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:24:08 -0800 Message-ID: <01a001be5512$0888ade0$cb860318@cc1010062-a.avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked by Janet Arnold availability?? Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:25:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" A new printing was authorized prior to Janet Arnold's death...I believe it is available now from the publisher. The contact I've been using for out of print or hard to find books of this sort is: Ann Morgan-Hughes Black Cat Books annmh@blackcatbooks.demon.co.uk Her price is 75 pounds or approx $122.44 US. I've ordered several books from her and had them delivered to the US. She is prompt...wraps the books well and adds you to a mailing list for her catalog of books. She doesn't have a web site but deals via Abe Books ... here is the link to the page where you can order this book. http://whipper.abebooks.com/abep/il.dll Hope this helps anyone looking :) Suz aka Kyna Grannd granndgarb.com -----Original Message----- From: Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001) To: 'h-costume@indra.com' Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 5:06 PM Subject: H-COST: Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked by Janet Arnold availability?? > >-Poster: "Knauf, Saragrace T(Z02001)" > >Does anyone know where you can purchase this book and how much it costs? > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 11:33:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09287 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:33:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA29592; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:32:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA06233 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:36:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA06197 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:36:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.148 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:36:23 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Eighteenth Century Velvet Nightcap Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:39:40 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be5514$30f63020$3922ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <123180a1.36c18b8a@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Thanks for this very good explanation. I'm saving it, as the detail is great. I've seen photos of these in linen and the embroidery designs and cutting lines, together with this explanation are enough to get it done. There is another style of nightcap which is more of an overgrown beret style or something, more shapeless, always in velvet, never in linen, which is more frequently seen in portraits, that would be a better, more documentable fit with the character I am researching now. The thing is never embroidered. Most of my sources for it are not on the Web, but there is one shown on the man to the far left of the Wm Hogarth's Harlot's Progress engraving shown here: http://metalab.unc.edu/cjackson/hogarth/p-hogarth8.htm Can anybody explain how this style is made? This is what I really need. Thanks! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of AlbertCat@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 8:37 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Eighteenth Century Velvet Nightcap -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 2/9/99 10:32:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, matchlck@erols.com writes: << Can anyone explain to me how to draft a pattern for the big > floppy velvet nightcap which English and American men wore > at home instead of their wigs in 18th Century Georgian > times? >> I had a friend who actually owned a real one [probably from late in the period or perhaps the early 1800s] It consisted of 4 pieces shaped not unlike the hot plate of your average steam iron: ^ * * * * * * * * *-----------* *______ * The 4 pieces were sewn together & a tassel put at the top point. The bottom was turned up about 2 1/2 inches. It was indeed velvet [midnight blue] and each panel was embroidered with delicate scrolling flowers & leaves in greens, yellows, pinks, & light blues. The facing on the turn back was also embroidered. I'd say [from memory] it was about 8" to 10" high after turning back the bottom. It was lined with a light weight black silk. I made one out of white linen for another friend and embroidered the 4 panels in black floss [something representing each season of the year per panel] which didn't take long at all...about 10 days. Unfortunately it was lost in the mail and never seen again!!!!! For that reason I've not done another....but now it's time to get over that. It was easy & striking. ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 11:44:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09344 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:44:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA01591; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:42:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA08258 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:47:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA08236 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:47:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.31.26 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:46:55 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:50:19 -0500 Message-ID: <000401be5515$aa224780$3922ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990210043214.00c89d30@pop.slip.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I did get the 2 photos in the Philadelphia Museum of Art book, many thanks! Costume in Detail is one of my absolute favorite books, recently stolen from the local library (hey! I wanted to, but it wasn't me!) so I've lost it as a reference. Guess I'll have to schlep to the next closest copy an hour away and take another look at it! Thanks for that suggestion! The Philadelphia Museum of art quilted petticoat is definitely a "not in this lifetime" kind of project, but taken together the extant examples do confirm "a look" to go after. The top is always a much simpler type of quilting, usually diamond quilting or double diamond quilting, while the border at the bottom is more heavily worked. The Philadelphia Museum of Art example is why fashion changed to the open-robe! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 7:34 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I have a vague memory that someone asked for a source for early 18th >century >quilted petticoat patterns recently. Both a whole cloth quilt and a >petticoat of >c. 1700-1730 are illustrated on pages 20-21 in the following: > >"Philadelphia: Three Centuries of American Art. Philadelphia Museum of >Art, 1990. >0-87633-016-2 Several of these illustrated in Nancy Bradfield's 'Costume In Detail'. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 11:59:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09425 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:59:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA04873; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:57:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA11549 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:02:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from access1.digex.net (qlRW0LpSfu9oE@access1.digex.net [205.197.245.192]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA11526; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:02:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (betsy@localhost) by access1.digex.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA04666; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:02:15 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: access1.digex.net: betsy owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:02:15 -0500 (EST) From: "Betsy R. Delaney" To: Fantasy Costume List , Historic Costume List , ICG List Subject: H-COST: Sorry for the short notice - two Costume-Con memberships available Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Betsy R. Delaney" Hi! If you're not interested in Costume-Con, please delete this message. Sorry for the wasted bandwidth. Everyone else: My friend has two Costume-Con 17 (CCXVII) attending memberships available at the $55 rate. (At-Door rate is now $75.) If you'd like to discuss taking one or both of them, please let me know ASAP - we're heading to the conference Thursday night. She wants cash for the memberships, which I can collect at the con. If you're interested, give me a call at (301-617-2798) or email me directly at betsy@hawkeswood.com (DON'T reply to this message!) Thanks! -betsy (Back on the lists again after a year-long hiatus!) -- Betsy R. Delaney Webmistress at large Costume-Con(R) Archivist *************************************************************************** betsy@hawkeswood.com or betsy@ability.net http://www.hawkeswood.com/, home of Hawkeswood Designs and http://www.CostumeCon.org/, home of Costume-ConNections *************************************************************************** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 12:25:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09576 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:25:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA11089; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:23:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA16134 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:28:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id KAA16033 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:27:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 5370 invoked from network); 10 Feb 1999 17:32:01 -0000 Received: from tntmodem1-67.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.133.67) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 10 Feb 1999 17:32:01 -0000 Message-ID: <36C1D0CF.4F28@mc.net> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:33:02 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: 1850s dress References: <199902101501.IAA20641@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Margo, what did Belle Watling wear(Gone With the Wind)? A few years late, but it's something to get ideas from. And Atlanta has higher humidity than California. Carol Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 12:55:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09760 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:55:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA17003; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:54:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA22186 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:59:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA22164 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:59:14 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 1UHWa19752 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:55:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:55:14 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: African Masks-help req Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com Does anyone know where I could purchase a base for an African Mask to be used in a play? I'd want to put it on a stick (so hopefully it wouldn't be too heavy) and I need some sort of base material to work with. I'm a seamstress, milliner, and sometime (if I must) shoe maker, but masks are just not something I want to branch into. I'll paint it, but I'd rather not get into the actual papier mache or whatever. Am I dreaming or is there a source for plain masks somewhere? angil ++++++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing "Yes, all my laurels you have riven away and all my roses; yet in spite of you, there is one crown I bear away with me, and tonight, when I enter before God, my salute shall sweep all the stars away from the blue threshold! One thing without stain, unspotted from the world, in spite of doom, mine own! and that is.... my white plume!" ~~ Edmond Rostand's Cyrano de Bergerac _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 13:07:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA09805 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:07:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA19186; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:06:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA24296 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:11:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA24288 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:11:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p10.directcon.net [206.170.184.59]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA02523 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:05:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:05:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902101805.KAA02523@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850s dress Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 10:33 AM 2/10/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Heather Law > >Margo, what did Belle Watling wear(Gone With the Wind)? A few years >late, but it's something to get ideas from. Ooh, good idea, AND an excuse to see the movie again! It also occurred to me that Paint your Wagon might be good for inspiration. Can anyone recall if the costumes were any good? Any other movies with madams? East of Eden and Pretty Baby both come to mind, but they're too late. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 13:50:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00483 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:50:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA26795; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:49:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA03220 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:54:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA03211 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:54:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from 132.198.103.242 (132.198.103.242) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.CCEB0A40@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:53:55 -0500 Message-ID: <36C1D61D.229C@uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:55:44 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850s dress References: <199902101501.IAA20641@indra.com> <36C1D0CF.4F28@mc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hope Greenberg Re: walking dress, re-sizing, and madames; just a few thoughts: I just took a quick cruise through Godey's looking for ideas. For something that you could fit and re-fit, how about a basque or caraco. If made with an open sleeve and a front that is somewhat open you could wear a chemisette under it. It would be a couple layers, yes, but they could all be fairly lightweight. And since the skirt would be separate you wouldn't have to worry about adjusting skirt and top simultaneously. Godey's usually mentions silk for ballgowns, very lightweight ones in the summer. But there are some evening and dinner dresses that might pass that are done in light, fine muslin or cambric. Here's one description that mentions tulle: "A novelty has been introduced, a dress of white thulle, with three flounces, each covered by a fall of black lace. The flounces are headed by a bouillon of thulle, with a pink satin ribbon drawn through it. The corsage has a heart-shaped berthe of alternate thulle buillons and rows of black lace." (GLB, July 1858, p. 96) Unfortunately there isn't an illustration. As for a madame: that's a tough one! Godey's obviously doesn't describe such an outfit (!!) but does have some things to say about dressing in a lady-like manner. Choose a color that complements your skin type, bright scarlet is a vulgar choice, when wearing a mantle (which one should always) wear it gracefully and don't pull it tight to show off your figure, don't go to fashion extremes, don't wear too many flounces or horizontal stripes if you are short, don't tight lace, and in speaking of appearing at hotel dinners while summering at the resort, says: "there is no excuse for any woman to appear with neck and arms uncovered, in broad daylight. . ." (also from GLB, July 1858, p. 96) Belle Watling, at least as seen in the movie, wore satin in bright colors, usually a bit tight or over-decorated, with dyed hair, too much make-up and jewelry, and feathers. And Scarlett's bare arms and neck, red dress and feathers, at the birthday party, were also signifiers. But there's where the real problem lies. We've grown accustomed, though movies and images, of seeing the "scarlet woman" decked out to the nines or even over-dressed to get the point across. Real madames, at least some of them, probably attempted to look respectable and so followed fashion dictates. But late 20th century people won't necessarily realize that if you don't overdress. A puzzle. - Hope ------------ hope.greenberg@uvm.edu, U of Vermont, http://www.uvm.edu/~hag _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 13:55:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00516 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:55:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA27663; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:54:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA03956 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:58:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA03933 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:58:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA16775 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:58:24 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp189-133.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.133]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA12163 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:58:20 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902101858.TAA12163@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Medieval panties? Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:48:24 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, > > Please post the pictures. I think the one in underwear is a man. > > I tend to think so too. So do I Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 13:55:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00518 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:55:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA27671; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:54:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA03960 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:58:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA03934 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:58:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA16836 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:58:29 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp189-133.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.133]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA12207 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:58:25 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902101858.TAA12207@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Fabric width? Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:57:19 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, > A book I am reading takes place in 13th century England. It mentions > that one of the kings ruled that woven fabric had to be a standard > width, but it fails to mention that width. Anyone know? These must have been either John, Henry III or Edward I. I don't know of any such law, and, frankly, it sounds a bit stupid. Linen and wool had different widths to start, and wool that was about to be made into broadcloth was woven broader (hence the name) to accomodate the crimping it underwent. Anybody else? Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 13:58:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00536 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:58:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA28262; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:57:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA04623 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:01:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA04585 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:01:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.70 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:01:20 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: 1850's questions Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:04:34 -0500 Message-ID: <000501be5528$708d16e0$3922ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <333e30f8.36c0d087@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" To solve the issue of the slimming figure (congratulations, by the way) you might think about applying the 18th century mantua-making technique to a bustled polonaise overdress or jacket. In the first half of the 18th century anyway, the mantua was made of six lenths of silk, with the only cuts being under the arms. The fabric about the bust was 1) pinned into place and girdled with a decorative belt or sash without sewing, or 2) stitched down to a linen lining on the bodice only. This permitted the valuable silk to be reused again and again as a woman moved through pregnancies, passed it on to her relatives or servants, or left it to her descendents. The lower part of the dress is available to be arranged "en tournu," meaning pulled up and back into a polonaise, a bustle, draperies of any kind pinned or secured anew each time it is put on, if you like. To make the dress seem more 19th century, you'd probably want to cut and sew the shoulders in true 19th century fashion (rather than use a continuous length of fabric up and over the shoulders from bottom front to bottom back), but then use the 18th century fitting device to solve the problem of your changing figure. I like the 18th century method, because it's so forgiving to the sewer who isn't a pattern maker. Those cut-in princess style panels and huge darts of the Nineteenth Century leave no margin for error. The fabric pretty much needs to be opaque or if light transparent, voile, lined before pleating to the body with a light batiste. See Janet Arnold Pattern of Fashions I for the mantua and sack layouts she labels "wrapping gown" and "pet-en-l'air." The pet-en-l'air with a longer skirt in back could be a great bustle-y something. Oh, and the petticoat beneath should tie on on each side, or in the back or use a drawstring for maximum flexibility in sizing (no buttons, unless you like to move 'em frequently). What a nice problem to have! Hope H. Dunlap Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of AlbertCat@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 7:19 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850's questions -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 2/9/99 4:16:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << I'm fairly stumped for the "madam" costume. What would be a suitable fabric for really hot weather, that would still get the character across? I don't mind being hot, I've worked RPFN in noble costume, but this time I'm not pretending it's England. What would an expensively dressed woman wear for streetwear in California summer weather? >> I'm always amazed at how light many period dresses are.....I mean the silks are thin! Not always sheer but many times gauzy fabrics are used. I've seen gauze wools with a window pane pattern woven in a twill. I don't suggest you wear wool gauze but you might think about this: Make a beautiful corset cover with wide decolletage, short sleeves and a lovely petticoat to match of fine white cotton perhaps enriched with eyelet & tucks. Now make a linen/cotton gauze gown to go over it. Surely you can fine a lovely colorful print or woven pattern. Cut the dress differently from the undergarments so they are striking on their own as they show thru the gauze dress. Perhaps with a high neck & a la verge CF. wide ruffle bell sleeves & some ruffles on the skirt and Tah Dah!!! a light breezy yet elegant & opulent gown. Just a suggestion. ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 14:11:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00584 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:11:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA00300; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:10:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA06507 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:14:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from names.telcom.wvu.edu (names.wvu.edu [157.182.140.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA06497 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:14:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from wvulib1.lib.wvu.edu ([157.182.225.205]) by names.telcom.wvu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/JLF-19981102) with SMTP id OAA29156 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:14:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990210141044.006aade8@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> X-Sender: khoover@wvnvm.wvnet.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:10:45 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: KATHY HOOVER Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850s dress Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: KATHY HOOVER At 10:05 AM 2/10/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >At 10:33 AM 2/10/99 -0800, you wrote: >> >>-Poster: Heather Law >> Any other movies with madams? McCabe and Mrs. Miller - but that is probably later than you wanted as well. Kathy Hoover _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 14:23:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00624 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:23:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA02171; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:22:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA08623 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:27:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA08609 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:27:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.31.122 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:26:52 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Fabric width? Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:23:11 -0500 Message-ID: <000601be552c$01d96920$3922ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199902101858.TAA12207@worldonline.nl> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" There were shifting standards for the "ell" as a unit of measurement, and to make it worse, there was a different "ell" in each country. At one time the English ell was about 2 yards, ie finger tip to fingertip. Then it was shrunk to about 1.5 yards. The actual yard was established during the time of Henry I in 12th Century England, as 36 inches or three feet. In 1406, a group of weavers protested to the King to get the ell established at 5 quarters, ie 5 quarter yards, or 45." Hence the typical 45" fabric width today. This doesn't answer your question exactly, but see F.W. Maitland's *Domesday Book and Beyond* for more info like this. By the way, a "nail" is a sixteenth of a yard or 4.5 inches, though it has been many moons since a fabric store would sell you that minimum cut length, before my time, but within this century. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Henk 't Jong Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 1:57 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Fabric width? -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, > A book I am reading takes place in 13th century England. It mentions > that one of the kings ruled that woven fabric had to be a standard > width, but it fails to mention that width. Anyone know? These must have been either John, Henry III or Edward I. I don't know of any such law, and, frankly, it sounds a bit stupid. Linen and wool had different widths to start, and wool that was about to be made into broadcloth was woven broader (hence the name) to accomodate the crimping it underwent. Anybody else? Henk ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 14:35:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00665 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:35:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04605; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:34:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA11045 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:38:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA11024 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:38:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.149 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:38:26 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: FW: H-COST: 1850's questions Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:41:40 -0500 Message-ID: <000801be552d$9ea5ae20$3922ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I forgot to mention the actual mantua cutting diagram in Arnold's Pattern of Fashion, which is out of sequence on pages 70-71 of Patterns of Fashion I, which shows a 3rd choice for ways to pleat and fit. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: Hope H. Dunlap [mailto:hhdunlap@email.msn.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 2:05 PM To: 'h-costume@indra.com' Subject: RE: H-COST: 1850's questions To solve the issue of the slimming figure (congratulations, by the way) you might think about applying the 18th century mantua-making technique to a bustled polonaise overdress or jacket. In the first half of the 18th century anyway, the mantua was made of six lenths of silk, with the only cuts being under the arms. The fabric about the bust was 1) pinned into place and girdled with a decorative belt or sash without sewing, or 2) stitched down to a linen lining on the bodice only. This permitted the valuable silk to be reused again and again as a woman moved through pregnancies, passed it on to her relatives or servants, or left it to her descendents. The lower part of the dress is available to be arranged "en tournu," meaning pulled up and back into a polonaise, a bustle, draperies of any kind pinned or secured anew each time it is put on, if you like. To make the dress seem more 19th century, you'd probably want to cut and sew the shoulders in true 19th century fashion (rather than use a continuous length of fabric up and over the shoulders from bottom front to bottom back), but then use the 18th century fitting device to solve the problem of your changing figure. I like the 18th century method, because it's so forgiving to the sewer who isn't a pattern maker. Those cut-in princess style panels and huge darts of the Nineteenth Century leave no margin for error. The fabric pretty much needs to be opaque or if light transparent, voile, lined before pleating to the body with a light batiste. See Janet Arnold Pattern of Fashions I for the mantua and sack layouts she labels "wrapping gown" and "pet-en-l'air." The pet-en-l'air with a longer skirt in back could be a great bustle-y something. Oh, and the petticoat beneath should tie on on each side, or in the back or use a drawstring for maximum flexibility in sizing (no buttons, unless you like to move 'em frequently). What a nice problem to have! Hope H. Dunlap Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of AlbertCat@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 7:19 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850's questions -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 2/9/99 4:16:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << I'm fairly stumped for the "madam" costume. What would be a suitable fabric for really hot weather, that would still get the character across? I don't mind being hot, I've worked RPFN in noble costume, but this time I'm not pretending it's England. What would an expensively dressed woman wear for streetwear in California summer weather? >> I'm always amazed at how light many period dresses are.....I mean the silks are thin! Not always sheer but many times gauzy fabrics are used. I've seen gauze wools with a window pane pattern woven in a twill. I don't suggest you wear wool gauze but you might think about this: Make a beautiful corset cover with wide decolletage, short sleeves and a lovely petticoat to match of fine white cotton perhaps enriched with eyelet & tucks. Now make a linen/cotton gauze gown to go over it. Surely you can fine a lovely colorful print or woven pattern. Cut the dress differently from the undergarments so they are striking on their own as they show thru the gauze dress. Perhaps with a high neck & a la verge CF. wide ruffle bell sleeves & some ruffles on the skirt and Tah Dah!!! a light breezy yet elegant & opulent gown. Just a suggestion. ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 14:46:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00706 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:46:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA06249; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:44:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA13207 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:49:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA13153 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:49:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.23 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:48:47 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Queen Anne Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:50:51 -0500 Message-ID: <000901be552f$125a8a60$3922ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Patches were sometimes cut from thin black silk fabric and applied to the face with gum arabic. I read of one cut to look like a "carriage and six," meaning a carriage and six horses! But generally they were simpler shapes. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Deborah Pulliam Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 10:29 AM To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Queen Anne -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <<'au dernier cri'>> "The latest cry" -- the latest fashion, in other words. <> Yes, black patches in various shapes (up to and including hearts) were used on the face to simulate beauty marks, which of course, are moles. Deborah ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 15:11:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00790 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:11:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA10436; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:08:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA19420 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:12:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA19409 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:12:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.231] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10Afzx-0004gf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:12:38 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990210120843.00c4ac80@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:12:28 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: grow tucks In-Reply-To: <36BE7162.7FFBEB45@flash.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >> More perusing the portraits.... >> >> Do you think there are tucks in the hems of these skirts to allow for growth? >> >> > >There was a discuss not too long ago on these Spanish hems. I don't recall >if a >conclusion was ever reached, but they're not likely to be growth tucks because >they're found on adults as well. I am looking at a full length portrait with such a tuck, and it only happens on the front of the skirt, tapering off to nothing at the sides. Therefore it cannot be a growth tuck, or it would go all the way around. There must be some other reason for it. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 15:16:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00809 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:16:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA11817; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:15:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA21265 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:19:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from dgs.dgsys.com (robin@dgs.dgsys.com [204.97.64.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA21230 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:19:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by dgs.dgsys.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA21321 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:19:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: dgs.dgsys.com: robin owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:19:45 -0500 (EST) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Fabric width? In-Reply-To: <000601be552c$01d96920$3922ffd0@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Hope H. Dunlap wrote: > There were shifting standards for the "ell" as a unit of measurement, > and to make it worse, there was a different "ell" in each country. At > one time the English ell was about 2 yards, ie finger tip to fingertip. > Then it was shrunk to about 1.5 yards. The actual yard was established > during the time of Henry I in 12th Century England, as 36 inches or > three feet. In 1406, a group of weavers protested to the King to get the > ell established at 5 quarters, ie 5 quarter yards, or 45." Hence the > typical 45" fabric width today. This doesn't answer your question > exactly, but see F.W. Maitland's *Domesday Book and Beyond* for more > info like this. Interesting stuff. Did all that come from Maitland? Or was any from another source? > By the way, a "nail" is a sixteenth of a yard or 4.5 inches, though it > has been many moons since a fabric store would sell you that minimum cut > length, before my time, but within this century. 4.5 inches is one-eighth of a yard. Do you mean a nail is 2.25 inches? Plenty of stores I've been to sell as little as an inch or two if you want (and sometimes I do). And I know at least one store that sells 1/16 as its minimum. But I don't think they'd know to call that a nail :-) ("I'd like a nail of this brocade, please...") --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 15:24:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00838 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:24:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA13338; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA24566 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:28:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from vail.telesensory.com ([12.7.233.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA24512 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:28:18 -0700 (MST) Received: by vail with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:23:38 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Vickers, Jill" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: grow tucks Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:23:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Vickers, Jill" This tuck sounds like an allowance for pregnancy (assuming that the portrait is of a female in her child-bearing years). -Jill > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > I am looking at a full length portrait with such a tuck, and it only > happens on the front of the skirt, tapering off to nothing at the sides. > Therefore it cannot be a growth tuck, or it would go all the way around. > There must be some other reason for it. > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 15:33:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00870 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:33:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA14600; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:30:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA26504 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:34:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail3.austin.rr.com (fe3.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA26471 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:34:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from cs63-200.austin.rr.com ([24.93.63.200]) by mail3.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:25:34 -0600 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: grow tucks Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:42:51 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <36c4ee0a.11588281@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <4.1.19990210120843.00c4ac80@pop.slip.net> In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990210120843.00c4ac80@pop.slip.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id PAA00870 Status: O -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>> >I am looking at a full length portrait with such a tuck, and it only >happens on the front of the skirt, tapering off to nothing at the sides. >Therefore it cannot be a growth tuck, or it would go all the way around. >There must be some other reason for it. My theory is that they are taken in the front of the skirt to allow for easy walking/dancing/movement. Perhaps the dressmaker made the skirt one length all round (for hang/drape to behave a particular way? Pattern issues?), then fitted it at the front above the hem in such a way as not to disturb the applied ornament? Possibly due to different skirt supports worn at the fittings than when the dress was delivered? I have made this alteration in dresses/skirts when I have loaned them out to persons who are differently shaped (at the hip) or wear a differently shaped support petticoat/skirt support. Just a thought.... Margery -----rio@austin.rr.com---Goddess of Last Minute Miracles--- "We went out with both lips blazing, and a pen in either hand..." - the Flash Girls -{*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*}- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 15:46:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00944 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:46:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA08717; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:59:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA16795 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:03:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA16777 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:03:42 -0700 (MST) From: AliaClaire@aol.com Received: from AliaClaire@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id VDZUa19752 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:59:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2aa4ec8.36c1e514@aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:59:16 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850s dress Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com In a message dated 2/10/99 12:29:50 PM EST, lynnx@mc.net writes: << Margo, what did Belle Watling wear(Gone With the Wind)? A few years late, but it's something to get ideas from. And Atlanta has higher humidity than California. >> I believe satin- which does NOT breath well. I'm a Civil War reenactor, so I have some info on the earlier period. For coolness, I would go with a demi-lined sheer dress, made of either pure cotton gauze, silk chiffon, a cotton-linen blend, or a wool challis. DON"T WEAR ANYTHING SYNTHETIC!!!!!!!!!!! It will not breath, and you will die of heat. A gathered or O-shaped bodice and full bishop sleeves are also very cool. A very trademark 50s style is flounced skirts- usually, about three, and they look gorgous with sheer fabric. And cage crinolines, with a single gauged cotton petticoat both over and under it, is VERY much cooler then the wedding-style hoops you usually see. Any other questions, let me know. -Alison Stacy AliaClaire@aol.com Canton, Ohio _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 16:06:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01049 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:06:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA20128; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:05:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA05908 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:09:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.isg.siue.edu (mail.isg.siue.edu [146.163.5.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA05880 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:09:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from frick.siue.edu (client652.pb.siue.edu [146.163.163.82]) by mail.isg.siue.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA10868 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:08:32 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990210151507.007da810@siue.edu> X-Sender: cfrick@siue.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:15:07 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carole Frick Subject: H-COST: cotehardie Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carole Frick Dear Colleen, About the "cotehardies" you are looking at in the late medieval Sienese Good Government frescoes....I would call these tight-sleeved, close-fitted long-skirted garments on the young women "gamurre" (singular "gamurra"). A "gamurra" was just a woman's basic dress, and up until about 1450 had attached sleeves, but later the sleeves were usually detachable. The term "gamurra" is most often seen in 14th and 15th-c. Tuscan sources, but the Venetians had the word "zimarra," and up in Milan, you see "camora; again, the same word with regional differences. In the 15th-c. usually a "gamurra" was unlined, and was worn over a "camicia," (the washable linen underblouse). In the art of earlier centuries however, sometimes it looks as though the "gamurra" is being worn alone, although I tend to doubt it.....as the "camicia" was the late-medieval version of a woman's underwear, and in fact was ALL she wore under her dress....panties being considered risque. (pants were ONLY for men) About the backlacing, I doubt it. I DO know that these garments were made of a wide range of fabric, from linen, to silk and the same stretchable "perpignano" cloth (a wool jersey) that hose were fashioned from. Plus that, backlacing would have required assistance from another person, and it just doesn't sound right for the historical time-period, place, and range of social classes that wore this sort of garment. Hope this helps. Carole Collier Frick, Ph.D. Department of Historical Studies Southern Illinois University Edwardsville, IL 62026-1454 (618) 650-3237 FAX (618) 650-3509 cfrick@siue.edu _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 16:20:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01124 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:20:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA22690; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:19:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA06622 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:13:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA06414 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:12:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.131] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10Agw9-0006Pq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:12:45 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990210123018.00c4b9e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:30:39 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Posture -1950s In-Reply-To: <19990208130239.27187.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Dora's comment about 1950's deportment reminded me of the early 1960 >when I was a teenager. My younger brother told me that when I was >wearing my ball gown I was 2 inches taller. This was because I was well >trussed up in a firm control girdle and long line bra. I probably was >taller because those garments made you stand straight. > Or could it have been the shoes? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 16:21:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01131 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:21:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA22778; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:20:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA06617 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:13:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA06426 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:12:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.131] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10AgwA-0006Pq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:12:47 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990210123407.00c4b780@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:34:55 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: what kind of lace In-Reply-To: <199902081539.IAA18802@bsumail.idbsu.edu> References: <2.2.16.19990207213908.302f2224@mail2.quiknet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >> >What kind of lace is that on the table at her left hand? Is it lace at all? > >> Given the limitations of my monitor, I would guess that she is holding some >> sort of jewel, possibly on a chain. It doesn't look like lace of any sort >to me. > >I agree. From my monitor, it looks like metal is involved. Perhaps a >necklace or choker of some sort. My monitor makes it look like a scrap of macrame. Josephine knots to be exact. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 16:21:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01143 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:21:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA22908; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:21:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA06607 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:13:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA06431 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:12:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.131] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10AgwE-0006Pq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:12:50 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990210124101.00c4e2b0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:42:52 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Bronzino "shirt" In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990208105329.007cdd60@siue.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows This is a very fancy (16th-c.) version of the Italian "camicia," which was >the washable undergarment worn by men, women and children alike underneath >their more constructed overgarments. In the backgrounds of 15th-c. >paintings, you can often see wet undershirts hanging out to dry on wooden >rods attached to the sides of Florentine palazze below the windows. Please cite these paintings, especially if they are online or in a reasonably well-known costume book. I would like to see them, and I bet other people would too. And can one see seam lines in these pictures? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 16:22:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01153 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:22:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA23010; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:21:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA06643 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:13:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA06451 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:12:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.131] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10AgwC-0006Pq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:12:49 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990210123520.00c4a280@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:40:01 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: grow tucks In-Reply-To: References: <009801be5319$82cccbe0$dcc1ced0@mamabear> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>feet while sitting, and that the University of Texas calls the ubiquitous >>Spanish Fold because they are sewn shut hence they do not know why they were >>fashionable. So in other words to answer your question since they appear on > >if even the people at the university can't figure it out, i won't presume to >know better... just a notion: >my grandma sometimes made such tucks around the skirt to make the hem fall a >little more smoothly without having to make the hem too stiff. as the skirts >here had to fall extremely smoothly, without a single vertical fold, maybe the >tucks were made to support this? This smooth hang can be achieved much more simply without the Spanish tuck than with it. Any fitting tucks are at the sides and in the back. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 16:22:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01163 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:22:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA23105; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:22:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA06628 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:13:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA06432 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:12:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.152.144.131] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10AgwF-0006Pq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:12:52 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990210124500.00c6c730@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:56:44 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: patterns and pattern making In-Reply-To: <199902082024.NAA24758@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I'm fairly new to costume making, though I've sewn for years. Everyone >seems to be talking about making garments from pictures. How do you go >about making patterns from pictures? Can anyone recommend a good book >to help me learn the skill? There may not be any. I do a slide show on the topic, but I bet I don't even live in the same state as you do. (That's the downside of these cool lists.) My basic method is to analyze the picture in terms of geometric shapes, then experiment with mockups till I get a reasonable pattern for the outside of that shape. Starting with patterns you already have and modifying them till they are right is always a good trick. Remember that the hang and fit of other periods and countries is different than it is here and now, and take this factor into account. Use corsetry when necessary to facilitate this. Learn enough about whatever period you're doing that you can understand all the pieces you are seeing. Get so you know what every line means in terms of seams and edges and grain lines. If you don't have this kind of feel for a period you will leave things out which you don't understand or can't interpret. Lots of discussion goes on here on this list about the interpretation of what the various ones of us are seeing in one particular painting. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 16:30:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01243 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:30:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA24669; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:30:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA10509 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:34:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA10493 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:34:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from home (pool033-max5.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.230.233]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA23925 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:34:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:39:56 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE54FA.D8D2BF80.mhull@earthlink.net> From: Hulett To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: H-COST - Bronzino's "Lady with a Puppy" Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:39:40 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 38 TEXT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hulett Thanks, kayta. Good luck! Cheers, jd. -----Original Message----- From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows [SMTP:kayta@slip.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 5:35 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST - Bronzino's "Lady with a Puppy" -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Scott Hulett writes, in a message sent 12:15 PM 2/7/99 -0800: > > Carolyn, > I've seen and made this sort of shirt. It is very simple to make though > not easy and looks beautiful when finished. So when I got to the web page I recognized the portrait. I hadn't realized it was a Bronzino. Anyway, I wrote this big post back to the people in question telling how I would make the shirt. When I read yours it was so good I threw mine away. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 17:35:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01692 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:35:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA07257; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA21986 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:38:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail3.austin.rr.com (fe3.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA21957 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:38:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from cs63-200.austin.rr.com ([24.93.63.200]) by mail3.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:29:00 -0600 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: patterns and pattern making Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 22:46:18 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <36c605fb.17718514@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <4.1.19990210124500.00c6c730@pop.slip.net> In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990210124500.00c6c730@pop.slip.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id RAA01692 Status: O -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) >>I'm fairly new to costume making, though I've sewn for years. Everyone >>seems to be talking about making garments from pictures. How do you go >>about making patterns from pictures? Can anyone recommend a good book >>to help me learn the skill? Try the Hunnisett books (Costume For Stage and Screen ). They include some good advice and illusrations on draping skirts, dresses, etc. The illos are nice and clear, thanks to her two illustrators and some nice photographs. There are three books in this series. I would definitely recommend the draping instructions from these books, as well as chapter 4 of the Costume Technicians Handbook (by Ingham/Covey) on pattern development, particularly pages 130-135. The above book is an invaluable reference for any costumer. Invest in some muslin (a bolt will be enough for several sample costumes, and will run you 50-100 dollars US), and play with draping some costumes on your dress stand from illustrations and photographs, trying to get the fabric to hang as shown, and also attempting to duplicate seam locations. Good references for pattern schematics and detailed drawings of costumes are the Patterns of Fashion books (Arnold) and Costume in Detail (Bradfield), as well as the Cut of Men's Clothes and the Cut of Women's Clothes (Waugh). Practice is the only way to learn this! Good luck. Margery -----rio@austin.rr.com---Goddess of Last Minute Miracles--- "We went out with both lips blazing, and a pen in either hand..." - the Flash Girls -{*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*}- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 17:37:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01711 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:37:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA07700; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA22498 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:40:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA22474 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:40:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.171] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10AiIq-00013W-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:40:16 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:16:31 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked by Janet Arnold availability?? In-Reply-To: <01a001be5512$0888ade0$cb860318@cc1010062-a.avnl1.nj.home.c om> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 11:25 AM 2/10/99, "Kyna Grannd" wrote: Ann Morgan-Hughes, Black Cat Books, annmh@blackcatbooks.demon.co.uk Her price is 75 pounds or approx $122.44 US. I've ordered several books from her and had them delivered to the US. She is prompt...wraps the books well and adds you to a mailing list for her catalog of books. She doesn't have a web site but deals via Abe Books ... here is the link to the page where you can order this book. http://whipper.abebooks.com/abep/il.dll One word before you dash off that check--shipping costs for books can add a good deal to the price. The used Irish-English Dictionary that I ordered recently cost $18.00 in very good condition, but that became $44.00 shipped from Ireland. Still worth it, as similar copies here were going for $85.00. However, something to be mindful of. ABE is a good way to find books, I must agree. Thank you, too, on recommending Ms. Morgan-Hughes. It's always good to know of reputable and considerate merchants. Carol J. Bell Cannon _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 18:11:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01957 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:11:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA13881; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:10:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA28420 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:14:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA28324 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:14:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA21806 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:17:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA28382 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:16:00 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:15:59 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Hispanic costume, 1480-1520 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed I'm in a fix--I ordered a great book a while back, "Hispanic Costume 1480-1520", which is dazzling in its breadth and detail and sources and has quickly become one of my favorite out-of-print gems. However, the company who did the search for me just sent me another copy. They said I could send it back free of charge, but I figured I might as well see if someone else out there wants it. (Oh, gee, who on this list would /possibly/ be interested...) The original cost was $33, a good deal for a 9x12 hardback copy with around 200 pages and dozens of pictures of Spanish paintings, drawings & statuary I've never seen anywhere else. So, it's first come, first serve! Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 18:32:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02037 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:32:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA17607; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:31:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA01874 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:35:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA01848 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:35:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA22610 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:38:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA28782 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:37:13 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:37:13 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Hispanic Costume Book: Sold! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed To Linda Yordy. Wow, that was close! Two people within a minute of eachother. Sorry, ches. :( Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 18:40:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02089 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:40:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA19428; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:40:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA03828 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:44:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA03778 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:44:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc1010062-a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with SMTP id <19990210234429.ZCFB11472.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062-a> for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:44:29 -0800 Message-ID: <03a601be554f$8df87400$cb860318@cc1010062-a.avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked by Janet Arnold availability?? Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:46:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" -----Original Message----- From: Carol J. Bell Cannon To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 5:56 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked by Janet Arnold availability?? > >-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > One word before you dash off that check--shipping costs for books >can add a good deal to the price. The used Irish-English Dictionary that I >ordered recently cost $18.00 in very good condition, but that became $44.00 >shipped from Ireland. Still worth it, as similar copies here were going >for $85.00. However, something to be mindful of. ABE is a good way to >find books, I must agree. Thank you, too, on recommending Ms. >Morgan-Hughes. It's always good to know of reputable and considerate >merchants. Carol J. Bell Cannon Good Point Carol....I thought I'd check my bill just for information purposes...this *IS* a large book afterall... Book was 75 pounds Shipping was 8.61 pounds for a total of 83.61 pounds My credit card bill came to $136.29 on Visa. This was shipping from UK to New Jersey USA. I believe most book dealers will quote you the shipping prior to ordering if you ask...or they should. Suz aka Kyna Grannd granndgarb.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 18:41:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02096 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:41:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA19564; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:40:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA03891 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from tor-smtp2.netcom.ca (tor-smtp2.netcom.ca [207.181.101.101]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA03879 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:44:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (trt-on27-81.netcom.ca [207.181.102.209]) by tor-smtp2.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA00972 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:44:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <010901be5550$0c9b46c0$d166b5cf@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: cotehardie Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:49:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" > In the 15th-c. usually a "gamurra" was unlined, and was worn over a >"camicia," (the washable linen underblouse). In the art of earlier Under-"blouse"? I understood the camicia (=chemise) was a lot longer than this word suggests to me. This IS a full length white linen or silk nightie, isn't it, worn under the gamurra and in bed, right? Just a little confused by the literal translation. Thanks! Eve Harris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 19:58:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA02367 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:58:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA03347; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:57:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA15085 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:01:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA15063 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:01:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from cornie (207-172-223-211.s211.tnt5.man.erols.com [207.172.223.211]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA20326 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:01:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902110101.UAA20326@smtp3.erols.com> X-Sender: rutheco@pop.erols.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:58:28 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Cornelia Rutherford Subject: H-COST: Pseudo-tartan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cornelia Rutherford Hi list.  I've been tasked with a kilt and matching sash for a wedding in April.  Yes, THIS April.  The bridal party are all students on VERY limited budgets so proper imported wool tartans are out of their financial league. ($79/yd and up) Does anyone have a source of nice plaid fabrics that would approach a Stewart Hunting Ancient tartan?  Internet suppliers or manufacturer contacts would be great.  Thanks in advance - Cornelia
Cornie Rutherford
NEW ADDRESS eff. 10/20/98: rutheco@erols.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 19:58:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA02371 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:58:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA03352; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:57:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA15087 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:01:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA15061 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:01:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from vaxxine.com (ppp127.analg-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.212.225]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA07154 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:01:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36C238F8.A731B5FB@vaxxine.com> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:57:13 -0600 From: Sheridan Alder X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: 1850s poor but honest? References: <2aa4ec8.36c1e514@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sheridan Alder Greetings all: I might as well throw my hat in the ring. I hope to create a costume for this period too, if I ever finish my other projects. Perhaps while you are turning over ideas for Margo, you might share a few with me. While Margo is interested in a more exuberant persona, I'm interested in putting together a late 1850's ensemble for a working man's tradesman's wife - poor but honest, that's me! I see a middle-aged woman who, insofar as she cares what an observer would make of her, would hope to appear as a decent respectable woman of her class - a prudent, hard-working good wife. My husband will laugh if he reads this - there was an Irish expression - "Street angel and house devil" perhaps another version would be "Reenacting angel and modern devil". I'm particularly interested in any sources for a pattern for a simple but period cap and bonnet. I'm a bit taken aback by my first introduction into Victorian caps - are they ALL so fussy and elaborate? I've got a grey checked linsey-woolsey for a sensible dress. There's a pattern for a c. 1860's dress in a Canadian collection I may use with some adaptations. Sources for stout stockings and boots? Would thick, itchy black wool stockings be correct, or am I just being masochistic? So if anyone would like to contribute any interesting snippets on the dress of working class women, I would really appreciate any suggestions. Oh and I just want to make it clear that this choice of a rather stolid persona is a personal whim - in reality I am an absolutely fabulous stud-magnet for my age! (Perhaps I shouldn't have included "for my age?) Sheridan Alder _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 20:15:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA02431 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:15:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA05403; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:14:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA17129 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA17107 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:18:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from vaxxine.com (ppp127.analg-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.212.225]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA25832 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:18:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36C23D46.82392A1@vaxxine.com> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:15:35 -0600 From: Sheridan Alder X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Shoes and shoemaking article References: <009801be5319$82cccbe0$dcc1ced0@mamabear> <4.1.19990210123520.00c4a280@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------2933040E928C987EB0799697" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sheridan Alder --------------2933040E928C987EB0799697 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's an article in the April issue of Early American Homes "Shoes and Shoemaking" p. 54. It's a rather general history of shoemaking, but there's a number of useful colour photographs - great detail of a very pink Victorian button boot, two 18thc. shoes, one c. 1760, a child's choes c. 1815-20, 1830-50 patten, and a 1800-24 child's shoe found in a wall (for luck?). Several have been found in walls of old Canadian homes, most recently in St. Jacobs, Ontario. I'm sure the British members are familiar with this practice. The article also mentions that the Society for the Preservation of New England Antiquities has a display running at the SPNEA Gallery at One Bowdoin Square, Boston (no charge!) until March 27th called "Walk Right In" with a selection of 40 shoes from its collection of five hundred. This includes smaller photos of a 1795-1805 slipper, a 1855-65 sliper with a scarlet rosette, hey, something for Margo, and a 1935-45 wooden platform sandle. A bit out of my way, but maybe someone else will be in that area. I think SPNEA has a webpage. Sheridan Alder --------------2933040E928C987EB0799697 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

There's an article in the April issue of Early American Homes
"Shoes and Shoemaking" p. 54. It's a rather general history of
shoemaking, but there's a number of useful colour photographs -
great detail of a very pink Victorian button boot, two 18thc.
shoes, one c. 1760, a child's choes c. 1815-20, 1830-50
patten, and a 1800-24 child's shoe found in a wall (for luck?).
Several have been found in walls of old Canadian homes,
most recently in St. Jacobs, Ontario. I'm sure the British
members are familiar with this practice.

The article also mentions that the Society for the Preservation
of New England Antiquities has a display running at the SPNEA
Gallery at One Bowdoin Square, Boston (no charge!) until March
27th called "Walk Right In" with a selection of 40 shoes from
its collection of five hundred. This includes smaller photos of
a 1795-1805 slipper, a 1855-65 sliper with a scarlet rosette,
hey, something for Margo, and a 1935-45 wooden platform
sandle. A bit out of my way, but maybe someone else will be in
that area. I think SPNEA has a webpage.

Sheridan Alder --------------2933040E928C987EB0799697-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 20:19:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA02447 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:19:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA05787; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:18:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA17740 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:22:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA17735 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:22:29 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id BRPVa20089 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:08:39 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:08:39 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Hispanic Costume Book: Sold! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 2/10/99 6:38:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, aleed@dnaco.net writes: << To Linda Yordy >> OFF WITH HER HEAD!!!! No, seriously, I'm sorry I missed it but...Linda, are you listening?....you'd better turn out some drop dead Conquistadors & their Donnas. BTW, I just ordered from Amazon Jean Hunniset's 3rd volume. The review from a customer [costumer customer?] was not flattering at all. In fact, they didn't like it much but for the Italian Renn. sleeve patterns & bibliography. Is it bad? I'll probably get it anyway just to have all the volumes but.....is it awful???? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 20:31:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA02500 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:31:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA07263; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:31:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA19458 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:35:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA19450 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:35:28 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LLHFa20554 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:23:23 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <78f0e8a5.36c2310b@aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:23:23 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850s poor but honest? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 2/10/99 8:04:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, alderweb@vaxxine.com writes: << I'm a bit taken aback by my first introduction into Victorian caps - are they ALL so fussy and elaborate? >> The basic pattern for caps remains pretty much the same whether it's embroidered silk net or plain cotton. I've seen a real cap that was nothing more than a Palladium window shape at back eased around the curve onto an approx. 3" wide rectangle that goes over the head from ear to ear. To the front edge of said rectangle was added a 1 1/4" box pleated ruffle. The straight bottom of the back piece had a casing inside split CB with draw strings that tied CB. 1/2" wide kinda short ties went under the chin. All this was made from the same batiste cotton with a smallish woven window pane pattern....all cut on the straight of grain. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 21:42:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA02782 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:42:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA15990; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:41:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA27272 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:46:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA27264 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:46:01 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip133.van22.pacifier.com [216.65.138.133]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA14038 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:45:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902110245.SAA14038@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:46:55 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: H-COST: grow tucks Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > > I am looking at a full length portrait with such a tuck, and it only > > happens on the front of the skirt, tapering off to nothing at the sides. > > Therefore it cannot be a growth tuck, or it would go all the way around. > > There must be some other reason for it. I was talking to a friend this morning who was telling me all about the discoveries she's been finding with not only Sanchez Coello and F. de Llano but a woman artist named Sofanisba Anguissola. These artists all do basically the same time period in Spain. She happened to mention that she had done some checking and found that every single one of the pictures with "tucks" she'd found all turned out to be women who were 16 years old or less at the time the painting was done, even though many of them looked like adults. She gave the example of Elizabeth (called Isabella in Spain) who was wife to Phillip the second. Her dress (which is one we often have referred to on the list) was done when she was 16. She was reported to have grown another 2" after that portrait was done. (I wish I had done that! No, I didn't grow past age 14 years.) Although she is still doing research on this, she thinks that the tucks *could* very well be growth tucks. Also, since most of the dresses I've seen have been trained gowns, it would not work as well to have the tuck go all the way around. It is much better to have it shorter in front (where you would trip over the hem) and taper off to the sides rather than involving the train (even if the train is only as little as 4"). Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 21:45:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA02796 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:45:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA16432; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:45:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA27720 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:49:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA27714 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:49:48 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip133.van22.pacifier.com [216.65.138.133]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA28435 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:49:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902110249.SAA28435@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:50:43 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Hispanic Costume Book: Sold! Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > BTW, I just ordered from Amazon Jean Hunniset's 3rd volume. The review from a > customer [costumer customer?] was not flattering at all. In fact, they didn't > like it much but for the Italian Renn. sleeve patterns & bibliography. Is it > bad? I'll probably get it anyway just to have all the volumes but.....is it > awful???? I thought it was rather fun. I use it as an example of how redrawings often give misinformation. I got a kick out of the "scarf like cuff" on one of the Italian Renn dresses, which if you've ever looked at the original tomb sculpture, even in a photograph, you can tell is a flea fur complete with little head with beady eyes! I've found her other books to be much less fanciful. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 21:56:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA02861 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:56:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA18150; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:56:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA28893 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:00:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.niagara.com (mail.niagara.com [209.5.56.12]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA28878 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:00:10 -0700 (MST) From: kathleen@niagara.com Received: from kathleen.niagara.com (isdn-158.niagara.com [209.5.58.158]) by mail.niagara.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA00032 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:59:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:59:58 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902110259.VAA00032@mail.niagara.com> X-Sender: kathleen@mail.niagara.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: dressed 'au dernier cri' - what does this mean? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kathleen@niagara.com > What might the 'patch' be? A faked 'beauty mark'?? Yup :) Made of silk in a variety of fanciful shapes, the location of the patch was a language as complex as the language of fans... Kathleen (Catriona) () _/)(\_ "Tehee!" quod she, and clapte the wyndow to /~~\ /____\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 23:24:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03212 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 23:24:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA29537; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:24:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA08333 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:28:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA08321 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:28:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p10.directcon.net [206.170.184.59]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA16547 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:21:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:21:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902110421.UAA16547@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Hispanic Costume Book: Sold! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >BTW, I just ordered from Amazon Jean Hunniset's 3rd volume. The review from a >customer [costumer customer?] was not flattering at all. In fact, they didn't >like it much but for the Italian Renn. sleeve patterns & bibliography. Is it >bad? I'll probably get it anyway just to have all the volumes but.....is it >awful???? It's not awful, but it's nowhere near the level of her other two books. I don't think I learned anything new from it. It might be useful for someone who wants to learn how to drape simple patterns. She relies a bit too heavily for my taste on jerseys and knit fabrics for draped effects that, to be in period, should be accomplished with soft wovens. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 23:35:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03271 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 23:35:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA00872; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:35:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA09438 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:39:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA09431 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:39:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p10.directcon.net [206.170.184.59]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA18373 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:32:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:32:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902110432.UAA18373@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850s poor but honest? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >Sheridan Alder wrote: >While Margo is interested in a more exuberant persona, >I'm interested in putting together a late 1850's ensemble for a working >man's tradesman's wife - poor but honest, that's me! (SNIP) >Oh and I just want to make it clear that this choice of a rather stolid >persona is a personal whim Well, perhaps I should make it clear that my choice of persona is ALSO a departure from reality! :-) As in real life I'm a poor but honest housewife and mother. I just figure a madam persona will allow me the maximum flashiness. Since I'm trying to appeal to a reenactment community that's still at the Jessica McClintock Prom dress over a hoopskirt stage of costuming, subtle historical detailing just isn't going to sell. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 23:39:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03287 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 23:39:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA01352; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:39:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA09849 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:43:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from hummer.tci.net (hummer.TCI.NET [209.19.4.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA09840 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:43:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303-a (c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.4.53.172]) by hummer.tci.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id 1LLCGM92; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:43:04 -0700 Message-ID: <003601be557b$bdff0de0$ac350418@c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: Subject: H-COST: Fw: QE Wardrobe Unlocked Thank you for your Fax,I Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 22:59:53 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" FYI, amazon dry goods now has a web page! Sincerely, Ches aka Chiara Francesca Virtual Scribe for 20th year http://www.ansteorra.org/20thyr/ -----Original Message----- From: Janet Burgess To: ches@io.com Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 9:27 PM Subject: QE Wardrobe Unlocked Thank you for your Fax,I We have the book in stock in good quantity at $139.95 + $13.50 insured UPS. See us at www.amazondrygoods.com or call 800.798.7979 9 to 5 est. Book is still in our catalog. Thank you, Janet B. To order from Amazon Drygoods be sure to include ALL info in the same email. Name, Credit Card number and date, address, phone, and items or catalogs desired. Thanks! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 10 23:46:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03312 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 23:46:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA02265; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:46:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA10769 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:50:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA10758 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:50:31 -0700 (MST) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id POVKa04297 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 23:48:58 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <5d66f3d6.36c2613a@aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 23:48:58 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Fw: QE Wardrobe Unlocked Thank you for your... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 2/10/99 10:43:32 PM Central Standard Time, ches@io.com writes: << Poster: "Franchesca Havas" FYI, amazon dry goods now has a web page! Sincerely, Ches >> Do share, what is it. Kelly Albrecht m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From Cheryl@sessionware.com Thu Feb 11 01:43:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from dynamic.sessionware.com (dynamic.sessionware.com [208.147.50.22]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA04537 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 01:43:37 -0500 Received: by dynamic.sessionware.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <1QMDAPX0>; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 22:54:12 -0800 Message-ID: <59E9557D345BD2118F2200A0C925BF9809B037@dynamic.sessionware.com> From: Cheryl Melnick Subject: 18 year antiques collection for sale & Fan website update Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 22:54:06 -0800 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Status: O Greetings! This is the monthly update for the International Fan Collector's Guild website located at: http://www.hand-fan.org; a not for profit website devoted to collecting hand fans from around the world. I would like to welcome the new subscribers to this list; I wish I had time to personally welcome each one of you. If you have written me a question about a fan, be assured I have your email and am trying to make time to answer you. The website update this month is going to be late due to a heavy work schedule of creating websites. Since the Guild website takes about 8 hours a week of maintenance, please be assured I am trying to find time to add the new fans, update the site with new information and list new resources for you. Thank you to everyone who sent me updates! The European dealer I had mentioned in last month's mailing has had his fan web pages completed by me for the Guild site; unfortunately he has not sent me the pricing and detailed information on each fan from his collection to enable me to post the collection yet. Margie would like to thank everyone for their interest in her collection of fans and to tell you the collection has sold. IMPORTANT NEWS: I have decided to sell my 18 year collection of fans, antiques and vintage clothing. I will be placing the items in the following location: Fans and fan-related merchandise International Fan Collector's Guild: http://www.hand-fan.org Vintage clothing (already listed beginning Feb 7) Victorian Elegance http://www.victorianelegance.com Some fans, antiques and other interesting merchandise from around the world Ebay http://www.ebay.com Look under seller: cheryl@sessionware.com. If you are so inclined, I also have filled out the "About Me" page if you want to find out what I do in my spare time. I will be selling a RARE French signed 1870's fan (museum quality) from my collection and also a hand-painted Victorian framed fan among others. I invite you to step inside my collection and take a look around; I will be adding new items daily for the next two months on Ebay. If you are looking to add a particular item to your collection, please feel free to ask me if I have it. After 18 years of collecting, I'd be surprised if I don't have it! . Have fun and happy looking! Sincerely Cheryl Melnick Volunteer Webmistress International Fan Collector's Guild http://www.hand-fan.org From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 07:10:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA11605 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:10:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA26310; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 05:09:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA03736 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 05:12:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.niagara.com (mail.niagara.com [209.5.56.12]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA03727 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 05:12:41 -0700 (MST) From: kathleen@niagara.com Received: from kathleen.niagara.com (dialup-105.niagara.com [209.5.59.105]) by mail.niagara.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA02450 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:12:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:12:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902111212.HAA02450@mail.niagara.com> X-Sender: kathleen@mail.niagara.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850s poor but honest? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kathleen@niagara.com >So if anyone would like to contribute any interesting snippets on the dress >of working class women, I would really appreciate any suggestions. Sheridan, the library downtown has a few volumes on working class costume, and I seem to recall Brock had a few as well. Good luck. Kathleen (Catriona) () _/)(\_ "Tehee!" quod she, and clapte the wyndow to /~~\ /____\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 09:31:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA12171 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:31:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA08104; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:32:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA14895 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:35:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA14878 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:35:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc1010062-a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with SMTP id <19990211143520.DJHG11472.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062-a> for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:35:20 -0800 Message-ID: <042d01be55cc$04ff92a0$cb860318@cc1010062-a.avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: Subject: H-COST: Fw: QEUnlocked (From Amazon Drygoods) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:37:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" I just received this in the mail....here is Amazon's website address and their info on QE Unlocked. Suz aka Kyna Grannd granndgarb.com -----Original Message----- From: Janet Burgess To: kynagrannd@granndgarb.com Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 10:19 PM Subject: QEUnlocked We have this book in stock, plenty of copies at $139.95 + $13.50 insured UPS. Due to value and rarity it is not returnable. We are at www.amazondrygoods.com or at 800-798-7979 9 to 5 It would be nice to have this on your bulliten board, but I am not very good at this stuff. Thank you, Janet B To order from Amazon Drygoods be sure to include ALL info in the same email. Name, Credit Card number and date, address, phone, and items or catalogs desired. Thanks! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 10:15:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12359 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:15:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA13185; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:15:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA20783 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:18:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA20770 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:18:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a15.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.143]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA14775 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:18:52 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36C2F4CE.9069CD44@nash.tds.net> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:18:38 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: From Amazon Drygoods References: <042d01be55cc$04ff92a0$cb860318@cc1010062-a.avnl1.nj.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat Pity it's just a web ad for the catalogs! I'd have loved it if it were an online catalog!! Which reminds me, I'd better get my pattern catalog back from my dad...I'm in a corset making mood! Probably ought to wait until I'm done with Richard III! Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 10:16:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12366 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:16:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA13501; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:17:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA21038 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:20:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA21023 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:20:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a15.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.143]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA16124 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:20:10 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36C2F527.D6748F01@nash.tds.net> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:20:07 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: 'chainmail' sweaters Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat Has anyone ever cut up old sweaters to make 'chainmail' coifs? I'm thinking I need to stitch the sweater material to some sturdy cloth first (fortunately I'm not doing the silver painting!). Any suggestions? Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 10:21:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12385 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:21:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA14485; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:22:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA21899 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:25:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA21892 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:25:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (pool025-max1.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.230.25]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA06285 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:25:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C2F7BF.9522536E@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:31:12 -0800 From: Scott Hulett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 'chainmail' sweaters References: <36C2F527.D6748F01@nash.tds.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Scott Hulett Kent, One of the first households I was involved with had several suits of 'knit' chainmail. It was truly knit, no lining. As I remember, it was sweater knit sprayed silver, inside and out, worn with a linen cap or hood. Cheers, jd Kent & Kat wrote: > -Poster: Kent & Kat > > Has anyone ever cut up old sweaters to make 'chainmail' > coifs? I'm thinking I need to stitch the sweater material > to some sturdy cloth first (fortunately I'm not doing the > silver painting!). Any suggestions? > > Kat > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 10:29:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12425 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:29:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA15845; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:29:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA23125 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:32:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA23105 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:31:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (pool025-max1.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.230.25]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA12026 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:32:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C2F948.31B88F38@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:37:45 -0800 From: Scott Hulett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: what kind of lace References: <00e101be5317$dc233280$5604c6d1@charlene> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Scott Hulett Was talking to a learned friend and he also thought it might be a love knot. Hate to sound like a total rube, but, when and where is costume con? Been a while, smiles, jd Charlene Noto wrote: > -Poster: "Charlene Noto" > > It looks to me like knotting...not lace, however, I can't really tell from > the picture. > -Charlene > -----Original Message----- > From: PiranhaBB@aol.com > To: h-costume-digest@indra.com > Date: Sunday, February 07, 1999 9:21 PM > Subject: H-COST: what kind of lace > > > > >-Poster: PiranhaBB@aol.com > > > >Checking out a Virtual Museum, I ran across this portrait.... > > > >http://www.hol.gr/cgfa/g/p-gheeraerts2-1.htm > > > >What kind of lace is that on the table at her left hand? Is it lace at > all? > > > >Best regards, > >Lisa > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 10:31:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12442 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:31:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA16462; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:31:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA23805 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:35:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from bsumail.idbsu.edu (bsumail.idbsu.edu [132.178.16.40]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA23789 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:34:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from cobfac.idbsu.edu (cobfac.idbsu.edu [132.178.51.3]) by bsumail.idbsu.edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id IAA21738 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:37:28 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902111537.IAA21738@bsumail.idbsu.edu> Received: from COBFAC/SpoolDir by cobfac.idbsu.edu (Mercury 1.44); 11 Feb 99 08:34:59 GMT+7 Received: from SpoolDir by COBFAC (Mercury 1.44); 11 Feb 99 08:34:48 GMT+7 From: "Linda Yordy" Organization: College of Business To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:34:47 MST Subject: Re: H-COST: Hispanic Costume Book: Sold! Priority: normal In-reply-to: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Linda Yordy" > OFF WITH HER HEAD!!!! Oooo, now where did I put all that protective armour? > No, seriously, I'm sorry I missed it but...Linda, are you listening?....you'd > better turn out some drop dead Conquistadors & their Donnas. Now, that sounds like fun! Haven't done any research in this area yet, so I'm looking forward to this book! Linda Yordy Phone: 208/426-4034 Boise State University Center for Management Development 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1660 ******************************************************** Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 10:34:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12455 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:34:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA16972; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:34:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA24353 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:37:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA24330; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:37:47 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:37:47 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902111537.IAA24330@indra.com> From: amazondrygoods-@webtv.net (Janet Burgess) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: QE Unlocked Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: amazondrygoods-@webtv.net (Janet Burgess) We have good quantity in stock at $139.95 + $13.50 insured UPS. Due to value and rarity not returnable. It would be nice to get this on your site, but I'm not very good a tech. stuff. To order from Amazon Drygoods be sure to include ALL info in the same email. Name, Credit Card number and date, address, phone, and items or catalogs desired. Thanks! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 10:57:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12609 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:57:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA20344; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:57:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA28374 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:00:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA28364 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:00:41 -0700 (MST) From: AliaClaire@aol.com Received: from AliaClaire@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id DTIMa11033 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:53:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:53:49 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850s poor but honest? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com In a message dated 2/10/99 8:30:15 PM EST, alderweb@vaxxine.com writes: << While Margo is interested in a more exuberant persona, I'm interested in putting together a late 1850's ensemble for a working man's tradesman's wife - poor but honest, that's me! It's much easier, and actually a much more common impression, too :-) I see a middle-aged woman who, insofar as she cares what an observer would make of her, would hope to appear as a decent respectable woman of her class - a prudent, hard-working good wife. My husband will laugh if he reads this - there was an Irish expression - "Street angel and house devil" perhaps another version would be "Reenacting angel and modern devil". Okay. My first thoughts for this are as follows: for a day dress, a plain dove-grey or dark blue cotton, not fussy at all. The fitted bodice pattern and CW-era skirt (NOT the flounced one, unless they come together...memory fails) from Past Patterns would work well for this. You would want a linen or silk collar about 1 1/2-2" wide collar for 1860s, 3-4" for 1850s. You'd want coat sleeves (from Past Pattern's gathered bodice are EXCELLENT examples) or bishop sleeves, which are basically just full sleeves gathered into cuffs and armsythes. Any trim should be either self-fabric or contrasting (black velvet ribbon is always good), in small amounts, and on the bodice and sleeves. You'll need a hoop- the wedding ones work, but I recommend a cage crinoline from Heritage Reproductions. Make sure the bodice is well fitted. For fasteners, either buttons or hooks and eyes, and maybe decorative buttons. The dress should be front-opening, with a left-side dogleg skirt closure. For a nice touch, a black silk taffeta apron, gauged onto a waistband, would be elegant. <> Linsey-woolsey probably wasn't all that common. All the dresses I've ever seen have either been cotton or silk. Yes, LOL, most of the bonnets are fussy. I am the proud owner of a bonnet dubbed "the flowershop that fell on her head". For anyone above the age of 20, a bonnet is MUCH more correct then hats, which were informal and worn by the younger, trendier set. Christine Ballard makes exquisite bonnets, with as much or as little trim as you'd like. I have a white batiste gathered bonnet trimmed with pink silk flowers that I'm in love with...anyway. Kay Gnagey makes gorgeous bonnets, with a European flair. Linda Grey makes woven straw bonnets that are a little simpler- I've seen one with white cotton tulle pulls framing the face and white and blue check ties that was simple and stunning. Boots- either Robert Land or Wal-Mart . Basically, any boot that's ankle high, square toed, and no tread on the bottom works until you want something custom made. Stockings- white, grey and black were the most common. Many were cotton- in fact, all the originals I've ever seen were- but there were silk and wool ones. Many had clockwork on them. Whew...I've rambled on. If you need anything further defined or any contacts, just let me know! -Alison (who has a design interview this afternoon and has clothes on the brain!) Stacy AliaClaire@aol.com Canton, Ohio _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 11:17:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA12710 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:17:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA23899; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:17:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA02390 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:20:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.isg.siue.edu (mail.isg.siue.edu [146.163.5.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA02354 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:20:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from frick.siue.edu (client652.pb.siue.edu [146.163.163.82]) by mail.isg.siue.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA18900 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:19:45 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990211102622.007beeb0@siue.edu> X-Sender: cfrick@siue.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:26:22 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carole Frick Subject: H-COST: underblouse (camicia) source Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carole Frick Dear All, I was using the word "blouse" loosely. Yes, a camicia was long, (but then I own a blouse which comes halfway down to my knees). As far as a source, I put one in my post, that is: Masaccio, Brancacci Chapel frescoes (c.1425) in Santa Maria del Carmine in Florence (executed with Masolino)...you can see these in a Renaissance Art book (but frankly, I haven't looked for seams). Hope this helps! Carole Collier Frick, Ph.D. Department of Historical Studies Southern Illinois University Edwardsville, IL 62026-1454 (618) 650-3237 FAX (618) 650-3509 cfrick@siue.edu "When lions have historians, hunters will cease being heroes." -African proverb _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 11:46:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA12812 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:46:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA28263; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:46:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA08251 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:49:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from access5.digex.net (qlRW0LpSfu9oE@access5.digex.net [205.197.245.196]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA08233 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:49:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (betsy@localhost) by access5.digex.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA15476 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:49:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: access5.digex.net: betsy owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:49:20 -0500 (EST) From: "Betsy R. Delaney" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: what kind of lace In-Reply-To: <36C2F948.31B88F38@earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Betsy R. Delaney" On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, Scott Hulett wrote: > > -Poster: Scott Hulett > > Hate to sound like a total rube, but, when and where is costume con? > Been a while, smiles, jd Costume-Con is this weekend, at the Hilton Cherry Hill, New Jersey. The conference runs from Friday afternoon to Monday morning. A rough outline of the events is: Friday afternoon: probably panels, registration and maybe dealers Friday night: Sullivan & Gilbert Operetta & Vendetta (Social) Saturday day: Panels, Exhibits, dealers and so on Saturday (8pm): Science Fiction/Fantasy Masquerade Sunday day: more panels etc, plus Future Fashion Show (11am) Sunday (8pm): Historical Masquerade Monday: More panels etc, wrapping around noon or so, plus ICG's annual meeting This is only my best guess. I'm not on the committee this year, and I haven't seen a schedule of events with times for anything other than the shows, which means everything above is subject to change or modification. For more info, you could visit www.CostumeCon.org, and head for either the What's New page or the Time-line. (Oh, and the memberships I posted about are gone - sorry!) -betsy -- Betsy R. Delaney Webmistress at large Costume-Con(R) Archivist *************************************************************************** betsy@hawkeswood.com or betsy@ability.net http://www.hawkeswood.com/, home of Hawkeswood Designs and http://www.CostumeCon.org/, home of Costume-ConNections *************************************************************************** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 11:51:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA12845 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:51:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA29180; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:50:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA09328 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:53:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA09317 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:53:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from bino (1Cust47.tnt6.bos2.da.uu.net [153.36.117.47]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA04196 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:53:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002b01be55de$f67f6f80$2f752499@bino> From: "Van Cleave & Fleming" To: Subject: H-COST: re: 1850s poor but honest? Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:52:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0028_01BE55B5.0C7B47C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Van Cleave & Fleming" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BE55B5.0C7B47C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >- -Poster: Sheridan Alder > >So if anyone would like to contribute any interesting snippets on the = dress >of working class women, I would really appreciate any suggestions. A great book to check out is Elizabeth Ewing, Everyday Dress 1650 - 1900 = (New York and Philadelphia: Chelsea House Publishers, 1984). ISBN = 1-55546-750-4. There are lots of pictures which might fit your persona, but check out = especially figures 86 (drawing of women factory workers, 1850s), 90 (a = Punch cartoon of the average Victorian family, 1845), 100 (photograph of = a seamstress, 1850s), 106 (drawing of seamstresses, 1858), and 109 = (photograph of a lady visiting a laborer's family, 1850s). Kendra Van Cleave ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BE55B5.0C7B47C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>- -Poster: Sheridan Alder <alderweb@vaxxine.com>
>=
>So=20 if anyone would like to contribute any interesting snippets on the=20 dress
>of working class women, I would really appreciate any=20 suggestions.
 
A great book to check out is Elizabeth Ewing, Everyday Dress 1650 - = 1900=20 (New York and Philadelphia:  Chelsea House Publishers, 1984).  = ISBN=20 1-55546-750-4.
 
There are lots of pictures which might fit your persona, but check = out=20 especially figures 86 (drawing of women factory workers, 1850s), 90 (a = Punch=20 cartoon of the average Victorian family, 1845), 100 (photograph of a = seamstress,=20 1850s), 106 (drawing of seamstresses, 1858), and 109 (photograph of a = lady=20 visiting a laborer's family, 1850s).
 
Kendra Van Cleave

 
------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BE55B5.0C7B47C0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 12:17:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA12988 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:17:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA04601; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:18:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA15625 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:21:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA15597 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:21:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from home (pool012-max14.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.232.162]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA03545 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:21:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:26:47 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE55A0.A5815F00.mhull@earthlink.net> From: Hulett To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: what kind of lace Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:26:38 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 64 TEXT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hulett Oops, looks like I missed this one. Thanks for the info. Have fun, jd. mhull@earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: Betsy R. Delaney [SMTP:betsy@hawkeswood.com] Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 8:49 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: what kind of lace -Poster: "Betsy R. Delaney" On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, Scott Hulett wrote: > > -Poster: Scott Hulett > > Hate to sound like a total rube, but, when and where is costume con? > Been a while, smiles, jd Costume-Con is this weekend, at the Hilton Cherry Hill, New Jersey. The conference runs from Friday afternoon to Monday morning. A rough outline of the events is: Friday afternoon: probably panels, registration and maybe dealers Friday night: Sullivan & Gilbert Operetta & Vendetta (Social) Saturday day: Panels, Exhibits, dealers and so on Saturday (8pm): Science Fiction/Fantasy Masquerade Sunday day: more panels etc, plus Future Fashion Show (11am) Sunday (8pm): Historical Masquerade Monday: More panels etc, wrapping around noon or so, plus ICG's annual meeting This is only my best guess. I'm not on the committee this year, and I haven't seen a schedule of events with times for anything other than the shows, which means everything above is subject to change or modification. For more info, you could visit www.CostumeCon.org, and head for either the What's New page or the Time-line. (Oh, and the memberships I posted about are gone - sorry!) -betsy -- Betsy R. Delaney Webmistress at large Costume-Con(R) Archivist *************************************************************************** betsy@hawkeswood.com or betsy@ability.net http://www.hawkeswood.com/, home of Hawkeswood Designs and http://www.CostumeCon.org/, home of Costume-ConNections *************************************************************************** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 12:25:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13021 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:25:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA06366; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:26:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA17064 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:29:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA17044 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:29:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from kiwiopen (li-ppp01.hevanet.com [204.119.60.166]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA17561 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:29:30 -0800 (PST) From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Hispanic Costume Book: Sold! Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:24:34 -0800 Message-ID: <01be55e3$64b56820$a63c77cc@kiwiopen> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Wanda Pease" I received this book from Amazon.com last June brand new. They still have it listed for $29.00 although they say it is on back order, but should ship in 4-6 weeks. It really is a wonderful source. Regina -----Original Message----- From: Linda Yordy To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 7:35 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: Hispanic Costume Book: Sold! > >-Poster: "Linda Yordy" > >> OFF WITH HER HEAD!!!! > >Oooo, now where did I put all that protective armour? > >> No, seriously, I'm sorry I missed it but...Linda, are you listening?....you'd >> better turn out some drop dead Conquistadors & their Donnas. > >Now, that sounds like fun! Haven't done any research in this area >yet, so I'm looking forward to this book! > > > >Linda Yordy >Phone: 208/426-4034 >Boise State University >Center for Management Development >1910 University Drive >Boise, ID 83725-1660 >******************************************************** >Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch >directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 12:33:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13062 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:32:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA07644; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:33:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA18318 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:36:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu (oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu [128.174.48.92]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA18301 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:36:41 -0700 (MST) Received: by oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id <1MAX3DAB>; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:42:07 -0600 Message-ID: <6BAA9E7DB36AD2118FA60060943F1CAF1466D3@oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu> From: "Abbott, Ruth" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Kilt seams Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:42:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Abbott, Ruth" I have considered the idea of using some cotton flannel I have found at a local store for a hot weather Great Kilt. It looks good, but it is 45" wide instead of the usual (for wool) 60". Taking two 30" pieces and sewing them together would follow historic practice, but I was wondering what kind of seam to use. I wouldn't have selvage along both sides of the pieces, so fraying must be considered, but the seam needs to be unobtrusive and not too stiff or bulky. Or, could the fabric just be used at 45"? The decreased bulk above the waist could be another advantage in hot weather, or it might not fold correctly at all. Alix _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 13:18:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13234 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:18:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA15690; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:18:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA27681 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:20:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA27635 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:20:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p3.directcon.net [206.170.184.52]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA23603 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:14:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:14:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902111814.KAA23603@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Kilt seams Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 11:42 AM 2/11/99 -0600, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Abbott, Ruth" > >I have considered the idea of using some cotton flannel I have found at >a local store for a hot weather Great Kilt. I've seen cotton flannel used for kilts, and, IMHO, it just doesn't work. In addition to the problem of it not being wide enough, it doesn't hang right. Also, the tartan pattern is printed on, not woven, and the wrong side will show when it's worn. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 14:12:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13445 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:12:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA24342; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:13:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA15207 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:16:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from host1.texramp.net (root@host1.texramp.net [209.144.20.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA15179 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:16:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from LocalHost (hydroseal.com [209.144.20.50]) by host1.texramp.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA12175 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:16:00 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199902111916.NAA12175@host1.texramp.net> From: "Sterling Ranne" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Kilt seams Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:17:17 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Sterling Ranne" The other poster is correct with respect to the drape of the kilt. It just won't look right. I also assume that the pattern is the same front and back. Not an issue with the Wee Kilt, but is with the Great Kilt. If it is not the same front and back, try something else. If you can live with what you have however, then the only point I can add is that I wouldn't put the seam in the middle of two 30" pieces. I'd measure up from the bottom of the kilt and try to hide the seam under the belt getting something like a 20" bottom and a 40" top (or whatever). This makes it a little bulkier but hides the seam. Regardless how you do it the pattern is more important than the exact 60" measure. Make sure the pattern is continuous across the seam. Sterling 92.5% Pure sranne@hydroseal.com > -Poster: "Abbott, Ruth" > > I have considered the idea of using some cotton flannel I have found at > a local store for a hot weather Great Kilt. It looks good, but it is > 45" wide instead of the usual (for wool) 60". Taking two 30" pieces and > sewing them together would follow historic practice, but I was wondering > what kind of seam to use. I wouldn't have selvage along both sides of > the pieces, so fraying must be considered, but the seam needs to be > unobtrusive and not too stiff or bulky. Or, could the fabric just be > used at 45"? The decreased bulk above the waist could be another > advantage in hot weather, or it might not fold correctly at all. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 14:19:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13471 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:19:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA25202; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:19:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA16511 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:22:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA16497 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:22:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from [194.222.199.37] (helo=montgomerie.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10B1gb-0007aC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:22:05 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:35:03 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: H-COST: Where to buy near Aspen MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jean Waddie My husband has just confirmed that he will be going to a conference at a ski resort very near Aspen, Colorado, at the beginning of April. We are both keen costumers and SCAdians, and like to be as authentic as we can afford. I realise that it's a long shot, but if he was to take a day off to go shopping, is there anywhere he could reach that would be a good source of costume accessories/patterns/books/trim, feast gear or any other nice stuff for medieval people? If anyone lives in the area and has recommendations, please mail me privately. Thanks, -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 16:13:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA14128 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:13:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA07326; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:39:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA19605 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:34:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA19547 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:34:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.189 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:34:14 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Sources for Italian Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:37:53 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be55f6$3098f940$bd17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" See Henk's cotehardie WebPages at: http://pip1.pipcom.com/~tempus/cotehardie/cotehardie.html and an big Overview of Italian painters 1200-1700, organized by city-state at http://gallery.euroweb.hu/tours/painter.html and lots more Italian paintings including a wide array for 1300's and 1400's at http://metalab.unc.edu/cgfa/addition.htm. See also Jacqueline Herald's *Renaissance Dress in Italy 1450-1550,* from the History of Dress Series, edited by Dr. Aileen Ribeiro. New Jersey: Humanities Press Inc., Atlantic Highlands, NJ 07716, and London: Bell and Hyman, 1981 ISBN 0 391 02362 4 in USA 0 7135 1294 6 in UK, LC 82-5170. By ILL from Allegheny College, The Pelletier Library 393.00945 h412r. a glossary of Italian costume terms, and original source material of all kinds. She deals a little with the time period before the Renaissance, and the glossary will still be quite helpful. Well worth getting by interlibary loan, if you have to. I think Ribiero also put out a book of her own called something like Costume in Italian Paintings (approximate title). I haven't seen it, but I've heard its also great, and I did see another of her books which I thought was excellent. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Colleen McDonald Hinrichs Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 6:12 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Sources for Italian -Poster: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" Hello List, I am looking for sources to use for documenting an Italian "cotehardie". I am not sure if this is the appropriate name, but it conveys the style that I am looking for - narrow arms, fitted to the hips and full skirt. I am hoping that someone here on the list may be able to help point me toward some books or paintings. Some of the paintings that I have already looked at are "...Good Government: City Life" and the Legend of the True Cross series. There seems to be one painting by Bartolo di Fredi that depicts the dress style that I am looking for (darn, wish I had my notebook with me at work), but I can't seem to find his stuff anywhere in color. Any ideas where to look? If there's a better/more appropriate name than cotehardie, please let me know. (Henk, I am hoping that you have some info....) Also, any paintings that shows these dresses from the back? The ones that I have mentioned only have front views and I am trying to determine if the dress should lace up the back. (None of the ones I've looked at show front lacing.) Keeping my fingers crossed, Colleen McDonald Hinrichs ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 16:37:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA14276 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:37:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA18707; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:37:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA16237 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:40:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA16178 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:40:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.130 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:39:37 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Studio of Michael Pracher, Birth of the Virgin, Castle Gallery, Rychnov n.Kn. (Bohemia) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:09:46 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be5603$1634c400$841fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I am very interested in the cutting lines of the green and mauve dresses shown in this 14th C. ? painting in Kybalova's Pictorial Encyclopaedia of Fashion, Plate III between p. 24 and 25. The backs of the 2 gowns are partially visible, and I'd like an expalation of how the front of the dresses are cut. The green one appears to have an arm cut like the doublet(pierpoint?) of Charles duBois, and the mauve one has a seam up the back of the sleeve which curves over the shoulder blade to almost center back, with a side seam the full length of the gown. It looks like the front of the dress in cut in one with the two center back panels which wrap over the shoulders and frame the neckline. Is there a waist seam in the front of this garment? what so, is the front of the sleeve look like and how does it join the bosom area? Any help would be most appreciated. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 16:52:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA14345 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:52:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA21627; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:52:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA19017 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:55:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA18994 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:55:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p6.directcon.net [206.170.184.55]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA20047 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:48:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:48:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902112148.NAA20047@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Where to buy near Aspen Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson > >My husband has just confirmed that he will be going to a conference at a >ski resort very near Aspen, Colorado, at the beginning of April. We are >both keen costumers I had to re-read this post twice. I thought you were asking how to costume yourselves appropriately to fit in with the Aspen skiers! Let's see, in the late 20th century, Aspenites were wearing Gortex parkas, with polarfleece earwarmers, and.... Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 17:06:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA14416 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:06:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA25523; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:08:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA22029 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:10:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA22003 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:10:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.250 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:10:13 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: 15th-16th Century man's hat Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:41:44 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be5607$5c79d280$841fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" How do you form the man's hat shown in rust-color in the upper left? The big brioche-shaped velvet? one? http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_e/sebastia.jpg Some of the more shapely 18th century men's big floppy nightcaps look like this, as well as little girls' hats in the Edwardian era. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 17:45:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA14615 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:45:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA27504; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:13:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA23107 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:16:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from kutztown.edu (pooh.kutztown.edu [156.12.23.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA23097 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:16:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (forte@localhost) by kutztown.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA28130 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:16:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:16:10 -0500 (EST) From: "Johanna R. Forte" X-Sender: forte@pooh To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: the zipper Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Johanna R. Forte" I am an eighth grade student at Kutztown Junior High School who is participating in National History Day, a nation wide competion that encourages students to become involved with the past. The topic that I have have chosen is HOW THE ZIPPER CHANGED FASHION HISTORY. If there are any fashion historians out there, my project greatly needs your help. We have all the history of the zipper that we need, but are struggling to find some significance of the zipper. Yes it was time saving, but isn't there something else? Did the invention of the zipper lead to any new fashion styles to be designed? Did the zipper make clothing companies save any money? (Was sewing in the zipper cheaper than sewing in the buttons?) To discover more in depth answers to those questions and to please the judges, I need primary sources. Could you please help me to discover some of these sources? Thank you for taking the time to read this letter. If you have a response, please e-mail me privately at MFfairy@hotmail.com. Sincerely, Melina Forte Johanna R. Forte Costume Designer Kutztown University _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 19:46:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA15170 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:46:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA22102; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:47:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA17249 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:49:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA17225 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:49:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.187] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10B6nJ-0007l8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:49:22 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:42:23 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: 'chainmail' sweaters In-Reply-To: <36C2F7BF.9522536E@earthlink.net> References: <36C2F527.D6748F01@nash.tds.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" May I ask the intended use? Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 20:35:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA15408 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:35:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA27682; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:35:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA22680 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:38:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA22675 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:38:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a38.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.166]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA08687 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:37:59 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36C385F4.853A7673@nash.tds.net> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:37:56 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 'chainmail' sweaters References: <36C2F527.D6748F01@nash.tds.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat "Carol J. Bell Cannon" wrote: > > May I ask the intended use? Carol Exactly what I said...to make chainmail looking coifs for a high school production of Richard III. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 22:58:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA15935 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:58:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA15476; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:59:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA08356 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:01:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA08350 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:01:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (pool022-max9.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.231.172]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA20526 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:01:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C3A8CD.AEB42B86@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:06:38 -0800 From: Scott Hulett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST - Bronzino's "Lady with a Puppy" References: <4.1.19990206095431.00c82650@pop.slip.net> <36BDE797.4C876F68@gte.net> <36BDF95A.15F18A14@earthlink.net> <36BE0821.F3791EEA@gte.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Scott Hulett Lady Eleanor, Going back a little, are you still looking for smocking? I have a great reference for some rennaisance smocking on a shirt from a german grave site. I would be happy to snail mail it to you. Also, clotilde has a smocking machine;) cheers, jd Lady Eleanor wrote: > -Poster: Lady Eleanor > > No need to apologize! Thanks for the directions!! I'm going to try > this technique. Sounds good. > > By the bye...anybody know of any "smocking" sites on the web? I could > probably figure it out on my own...but would rather have some details to > start with. :-) > > In service, > Lady Eleanor > > Scott Hulett wrote: > > > > -Poster: Scott Hulett > > > > Abject appologies. Just looked at portrait. Mine will work if you replace the > > ruffle directions with a flat shirt style collar. Other wise, I think it would > > work. > > Cheers, jd > > > > Lady Eleanor wrote: > > > > > -Poster: Lady Eleanor > > > > > > Here's a link: > > > > > > http://metalab.unc.edu/cjackson/bronzino/index.html > > > > > > with a copy of the portrait in question. Enjoy! > > > > > > YIS, > > > Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre > > > > > > Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > > > > > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > > > > > > > > In Bronzino's "Portrait of a Lady with a Puppy", the lady in > > > > >question is wearing a very beautiful chemise/shirt/whatever > > > > >with what appears on close examination to be smocking/ > > > > >proto-smocking on the collar area, with patterns of crosses, > > > > >etc, worked into the folds. Does anyone have any idea how > > > > >this was done? Anybody done it? I have seven yards of > > > > >very dainty silk I've been hoarding for just such a project..... > > > > > > > > > >All Health, and apologies to anyone who had to read the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where can we see a picture of this? Is it in some costume book? Can you > > > > post it somewhere we can get to? > > > > > > > > Kayta > > > > ////.\\\ > > > > ////-@@\\\ > > > > (((( 7 ((( > > > > | -- )))) > > > > * ) ((((( > > > > /----\ /---\ > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 11 23:08:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA15977 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:08:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA16897; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:10:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA09470 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:12:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.niagara.com (mail.niagara.com [209.5.56.12]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA09446 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:12:46 -0700 (MST) From: kathleen@niagara.com Received: from kathleen.niagara.com (dialup-73.niagara.com [209.5.59.73]) by mail.niagara.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA26152 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:12:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:12:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902120412.XAA26152@mail.niagara.com> X-Sender: kathleen@mail.niagara.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850s poor but honest? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kathleen@niagara.com >Linsey-woolsey probably wasn't all that common. All the dresses I've ever seen >have either been cotton or silk. Well, now that you have all that linsey-woolsey to get rid of... () _/)(\_ "Tehee!" quod she, and clapte the wyndow to /~~\ /____\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 01:16:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA17336 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 01:16:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA29819; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:17:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA20787 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:19:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.gmx.net (qmailr@mail1.gmx.net [195.63.104.61]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id XAA20778 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:19:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 1650 invoked by uid 0); 12 Feb 1999 06:19:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jacomo) (203.216.65.95) by mail1.gmx.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 1999 06:19:38 -0000 Message-Id: X-Sender: marquise_de_pompadour@gmx.net@pop.gmx.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:56:13 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pompadour Subject: H-COST: anyone need plastic boning, busk? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id BAA17336 Status: O -Poster: Pompadour hi list, as it looks like i'll move to what is the equivalent of a desert for a historic costumer, i plan to stock up on plastic whalebone and busk. there's a minimum quantitiy of 200m for boning orders, i don't know how much for busk. as i doubt that i would need as much as that i'd like to place a collective order. the postage overhead will be lower and payment easier for costumers living in europe.  if you're interested, please contact me off-list (costume@gmx.net). ciao, yo marquise_de_pompadour@gmx.net - www.costumegallery.com/pompadour/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 01:23:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA17362 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 01:23:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA01015; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:25:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA21303 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:27:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA21296 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:27:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from tymeportal.com (client-151-196-125-92.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.92]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA15727 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 01:27:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36C3C9C7.942BDF74@tymeportal.com> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 01:27:19 -0500 From: Anah X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: anyone need plastic boning, busk? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Anah I would be interested in getting in on ordering of the busk's I don't use plastic whalebone though, I use steel stays. Are they 6/7 nail busks? or are they 5 nail busks? what lengths are you ordering? Let me know what to send and where... have you received the patterns yet???? I sent them to the address you gave me in Germany... Pompadour wrote: > > -Poster: Pompadour > > hi list, > > as it looks like i'll move to what is the equivalent of a desert for a > historic > costumer, i plan to stock up on plastic whalebone and busk. there's a minimum > quantitiy of 200m for boning orders, i don't know how much for busk. as i > doubt > that i would need as much as that i'd like to place a collective order. the > postage overhead will be lower and payment easier for costumers living in > europe. if you're interested, please contact me off-list (costume@gmx.net). > > ciao, > yo > > marquise_de_pompadour@gmx.net - www.costumegallery.com/pompadour/ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 01:25:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA17372 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 01:25:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA01139; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:26:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA21364 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:28:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.156]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA21358 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:28:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from tymeportal.com (client-151-196-125-92.bellatlantic.net [151.196.125.92]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA16058 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 01:28:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36C3C9F4.BFA98A2C@tymeportal.com> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 01:28:04 -0500 From: Anah X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: anyone need plastic boning, busk? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Anah oops...AGAIN! argh...I hate having to swap the address out to send it to the person i intend it to go to. Pompadour wrote: > > -Poster: Pompadour > > hi list, > > as it looks like i'll move to what is the equivalent of a desert for a > historic > costumer, i plan to stock up on plastic whalebone and busk. there's a minimum > quantitiy of 200m for boning orders, i don't know how much for busk. as i > doubt > that i would need as much as that i'd like to place a collective order. the > postage overhead will be lower and payment easier for costumers living in > europe. if you're interested, please contact me off-list (costume@gmx.net). > > ciao, > yo > > marquise_de_pompadour@gmx.net - www.costumegallery.com/pompadour/ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 09:54:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA31020 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:54:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA03033; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 07:55:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA19595 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 07:56:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu (oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu [128.174.48.92]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA19571 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 07:56:10 -0700 (MST) Received: by oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id <1MAX31L3>; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:01:39 -0600 Message-ID: <6BAA9E7DB36AD2118FA60060943F1CAF1466D5@oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu> From: "Abbott, Ruth" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Re: Klt Seams Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:01:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Abbott, Ruth" I've seen cotton flannel used for kilts, and, IMHO, it just doesn't work. In addition to the problem of it not being wide enough, it doesn't hang right. Also, the tartan pattern is printed on, not woven, and the wrong side will show when it's worn. Margo In this case, anyway, the pattern is woven in, or I wouldn't have considered the idea. Since everyone seems to be against the idea of using cotton flannel, what alternatives are there when it's too hot to wear yards of wool? Alix _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 10:18:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA31115 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:18:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA06068; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:20:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA23158 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:21:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay04.netaddress.usa.net (relay04.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.184]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id IAA23140 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:21:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 27305 invoked from network); 12 Feb 1999 15:21:45 -0000 Received: from nw176.netaddress.usa.net (204.68.24.76) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 1999 15:21:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 24186 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Feb 1999 15:21:45 -0000 Message-ID: <19990212152145.24185.qmail@nw176.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 209.122.3.3 by www.netaddress.com via web-mailer(3.1) on Fri Feb 12 15:21:45 GMT 1999 Date: 12 Feb 99 08:21:45 MST From: Orlaith To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Orlaith Actually I have made these. A couple of years ago I made a whole chainmail suit for an old friend's production of Camelot. Of course I have moved once and am planning on moving again in the near future so have no idea where my instructions are. I do remember that we used a satiny rope in place of yarn (necessary so it will read from the stage). Also I know he got the directons from some sort of theater source because I remember there was a logo on the instruction pages. Emmitt had at least 4 people making mail and I think we made about 10 full sets. I would suggest checking with local college theater departments to see if they can help you find the directions. If I can get hold of Emmitt I will post more information. Beth/Orlaith -Poster: Kent & Kat Has anyone ever cut up old sweaters to make 'chainmail' coifs? I'm thinking I need to stitch the sweater material to some sturdy cloth first (fortunately I'm not doing the silver painting!). Any suggestions? Kat ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 10:52:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA31290 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:52:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA10682; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:55:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA28587 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:55:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA28578 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:55:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip6.an5-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.16.6]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA25068 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 07:55:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C441BD.C54E893@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:59:15 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: cotehardie References: <3.0.5.32.19990210151507.007da810@siue.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Carole Frick wrote: I would call these tight-sleeved, close-fitted long-skirted garments on the young women "gamurre" (singular "gamurra") Carole, is the 'gamurra' related to the 'guarnaccia'? Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 11:00:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA31320 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:00:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA11573; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:01:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA29712 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:02:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA29705 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:02:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.234] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10BL3A-0003py-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:02:40 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990212075528.00ca3df0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 07:58:33 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: 15" waists: surviving garments? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows (take that 50 year old >woman from the late 1950's with the 13" waist-I can't recall her >name) Please find the name. I wanna see the photos of this one - if there are any (and I suspect not). Reminds me of the Charles Addams cartoon of the two sales ladies rushing out of the back room of a corset shop screaming that they had just pulled a customer in half! Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 11:01:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA31334 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:01:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA11565; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:01:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA29706 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:02:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA29697 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:02:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.234] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10BL38-0003py-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:02:39 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990212075004.00c9f560@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 07:54:27 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850's questions In-Reply-To: <199902092107.NAA29603@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows If you want to look like a Madam, go tawdry. Colours too loud, neckline too low (excuse me - 'dressy'), decorations too large, etc.. Like New Money. Like advertising. And don't worry about making yourself look thinner for the occasion. In fact, I'd like this >costume to convey that I run the best House in town. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 11:20:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA31429 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:20:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA14530; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:19:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA03177 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:20:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA03116 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:20:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from dnaco.net (pm3-1-4.dnaco.net [207.238.206.104]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA12458 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:23:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36C454DC.13899189@dnaco.net> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:20:44 -0500 From: Christine Krebs-Bonder <2maples@dnaco.net> Organization: Two Maples X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists: surviving garments? References: <4.1.19990212075528.00ca3df0@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christine Krebs-Bonder <2maples@dnaco.net> I remember seeing a photograph in a Guiness book of World records of a woman with a ridiculously tiny waist back in the 70's. That might be the woman referred to. Christine in Dayton Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > (take that 50 year old > >woman from the late 1950's with the 13" waist-I can't recall her > >name) > > Please find the name. I wanna see the photos of this one - if there are > any (and I suspect not). Reminds me of the Charles Addams cartoon of the > two sales ladies rushing out of the back room of a corset shop screaming > that they had just pulled a customer in half! > > Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 11:21:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA31436 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:21:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA13981; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:16:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA02520 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:17:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.austin.rr.com (fe2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA02507 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:17:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from cs63-200.austin.rr.com ([24.93.63.200]) by mail2.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:10:43 -0600 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists: surviving garments? Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:25:23 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <36c4554f.299466@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <4.1.19990212075528.00ca3df0@pop.slip.net> In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990212075528.00ca3df0@pop.slip.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id LAA31436 Status: O -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Fri, 12 Feb 1999 07:58:33 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >(take that 50 year old >>woman from the late 1950's with the 13" waist-I can't recall her >>name) > >Please find the name. I wanna see the photos of this one - if there are >any (and I suspect not). There are. I do not recall her name, but she was in the Guiness book of world records for precisely that reason: World's smallest adlut waist or some thing like it. Every Guiness book I had as a child had her picture in it, and I suspect that she still holds that record, even if they choose not to print it. Margery -----rio@austin.rr.com---Goddess of Last Minute Miracles--- "We went out with both lips blazing, and a pen in either hand..." - the Flash Girls -{*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*}- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 11:21:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA31440 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:21:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA15062; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:22:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA03712 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:23:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA03643 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:22:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.145] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10BLMn-0004Gq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:22:57 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990212081345.00b1e150@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:16:54 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: foot binding In-Reply-To: <36C1A1C7.7953A3DC@mail.brightok.net> References: <19990210135639.16853.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >If the binding of ones feet in China from a child on would keep the foot >small and not growing, so would a corset binding the body from childhood. Food binding does not keep the foot from growing. It just folds the foot in half and keeps it in the shape of a foot which has not grown. If you want to get gruesome, look at an x-ray of a bound foot. All the bones are there... Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 11:21:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA31444 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:21:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA15005; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:22:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA03705 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:23:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA03601 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:22:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.145] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10BLMh-0004Gq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:22:52 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990212080435.00b2c880@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:11:06 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: patch In-Reply-To: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3017B0701@nt13pv.apsc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Yes, the patch is a faked 'beauty mark'. >When describing how she is dressed and coiffed it says 'High on her check >she sports, as she often did, a patch.' The reproduction is not good, so I >can't see anything on her cheeks. What might the 'patch' be? A faked >'beauty mark'?? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 11:21:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA31446 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:21:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA15090; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:22:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA03714 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:23:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA03614 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:22:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.145] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10BLMj-0004Gq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:22:53 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990212080555.00a7ae70@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:10:15 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists - surviving garments? In-Reply-To: <19990210135639.16853.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I believe what you say about corsets and always did. I understand that the brag of a 15" corset turned into the brag of the 15" actual waist. And that the 'spring' was sometimes greater than it should have been to perpetuate the brag. I guess I was confused by your post. Thank you for taking the time to explain. >Saundra Altman, owner of Past Patterns, cites many references in her >documentation for her corset patterns to this effect. Sorry, I thought >or assumed we all knew this already. The corset size is actually 2 - 3 >inches smaller than the measurement of the "finished" waist while >wearing, because of the allowance for gap, or "spring" at the back where >it is laced. > >If a corset actually meets in the back, it cannot support you correctly, >because it will stretch and give while being worn, and cause gaps at the >front that can pinch or at the very least, feel uncomfortable. > >So a corset with a 15" waist would more than likely produce a finished >18" waist measurement while being worn. The measurements I gave in my >last post took this into account --that is, my 23" finished waist >measurement was while wearing a corset with a 21" or so waist >measurement. Does everybody understand this? (Whew! I'm out of >breath, or something like that...) > >Susannah > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 11:21:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA31452 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:21:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA15087; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:22:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA03716 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:23:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA03655 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:23:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.145] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10BLMo-0004Gq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:22:59 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990212081821.00afae70@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:20:16 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 In-Reply-To: <000401be5515$aa224780$3922ffd0@default> References: <4.1.19990210043214.00c89d30@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows The Philadelphia Museum of art quilted >petticoat is definitely a "not in this lifetime" kind of >project, but taken together the extant examples do confirm >"a look" to go after. Do I get shot at if I suggest machine quilting? You should be able to quilt a whole petticoat in a couple of days that way, and it would really be quilted. Machine quilting books would explain process and proceedure. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 11:21:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA31456 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:21:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA15095; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:22:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA03715 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:23:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA03626 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:22:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.145] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10BLMl-0004Gq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:22:55 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990212081138.00ca73a0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:13:18 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Sources for Italian In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >As for where, northern Italy, for sure - Florence, Siena, Milan perhaps. >Again, same thing as before, I'm not going into this with a definitive time >and place - it's more a case of "hmmm, there are all these different types >and places and...this one here appeals to me most." You do realize that costume changed from one Italian City-State to another? So there is no stylistic consistency from one to another. OTOH, if you just like Italian, why not several dresses, one each? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 11:54:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA31623 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:54:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA20784; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:54:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA09837 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:55:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.austin.rr.com (fe2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA09827 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:55:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from cs63-200.austin.rr.com ([24.93.63.200]) by mail2.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:48:30 -0600 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists: surviving garments? Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 17:03:10 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <36c55dc7.2467681@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <4.1.19990212075528.00ca3df0@pop.slip.net> <36c4554f.299466@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <36c4554f.299466@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id LAA31623 Status: O -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) >>-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >> >>(take that 50 year old >>>woman from the late 1950's with the 13" waist-I can't recall her >>>name) Found it. Had to do a web search on Body Modification, then search those results for smallest waist, and pick very carefully. >From 'Corset 101' off one of the corset-admirer sties on the web: "The world's smallest waist belonged to Mrs. Ethel Granger (deceased). At her ultimate her waist measured just 13". This took a lifetime of work to achieve and she lived to the ripe old age of 77. However, her figure was so modified, with her lower ribs collapsed, that few would find it attractive. Her husband, Will, wrote a biography of Mrs. Granger titled "An Exclusive Production". It is available from Insight Books." THere are lots of pictures of her. Go the library and look her up in an old issue of Guiness book of world records, maybe from the 70's or 80's. There will be a pic of her ultra-tiny waist. It liiks like an actual wasp's waist. Margery -----rio@austin.rr.com---Goddess of Last Minute Miracles--- "We went out with both lips blazing, and a pen in either hand..." - the Flash Girls -{*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*}- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 12:09:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31726 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:09:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA23175; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:09:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA12665 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:10:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from m13.boston.juno.com (m13.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.193]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA12654 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:10:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kiri5@juno.com) by m13.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D298DYUY; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:06:24 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:01:19 -0500 Subject: H-COST: Re: poor but honest Message-ID: <19990212.120127.14006.0.kiri5@juno.com> References: <199902111519.IAA20811@indra.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-29,46-47,53-57 From: Bette Anne Adams Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Bette Anne Adams On Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:19:02 -0700 (MST) owner-h-costume-digest@indra.com writes: > >From: Sheridan Alder >Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:57:13 -0600 >Subject: H-COST: 1850s poor but honest? > >- -Poster: Sheridan Alder >I'm particularly interested in any sources for a pattern for a simple >but >period cap and bonnet. I'm a bit taken aback by my first introduction >into >Victorian caps - are they ALL so fussy and elaborate? I've got a grey >checked linsey-woolsey for a sensible dress. There's a pattern for a >c. >1860's dress in a Canadian collection I may use with some >adaptations. >Sources for stout stockings and boots? Would thick, itchy black wool >stockings be correct, or am I just being masochistic? > >So if anyone would like to contribute any interesting snippets on the >dress >of working class women, I would really appreciate any suggestions. Hello, Thought I would just throw in my two cents. Sheridan, from the information you gave I think you would have one of two choices. You could use your linsey woolsey as long as it is not too heavy, I would however; style the dress in the mid to earlier part of the 50's. This would reenforce the image of limited funds, but by using a good quality fabric you are giving the lie to the idea of extreme poverty. I would suggest when having your dress made or making it yourself not using gores or pleating, but gauging it into the waist and then stitching it directly to the bodice. Again this backdating of technique will stress the fact that your dress is not that of a fashion plate and will achieve the proper domed silhouette. Avoid pagoda sleeves by all means a small open sleeve would work best, and be sure to wear undersleeves with it. As to your stockings, white cotton. Ladies wore white cotton, domestics and working class wore woolen and colored (mostly blue) stockings, black was not popular until later. For head wear a bonnet is a must either of fabric or straw. Caps of the late '50's and into the 1860's were caul shaped and could be quite plain or very dressy. I would like to suggest that you contact Maola On for your bonnet. She is currently teaching 19th century millinery at G-st Fabrics. I have seen some of her work on display at the Smithsonian in Washington D.C. and it is very good. The display she worked on is late fifties and she did an excellent job. I understand from other discussion lists that she does work for individuals. Just a few ideas Poverty stricken Bette Anne Adams ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 12:16:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31831 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:16:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA24580; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:18:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA14372 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:19:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.gte.net (smtp2.gte.net [207.115.153.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA14342 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:18:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from gte.net (1Cust63.tnt1.everett2.wa.da.uu.net [153.35.253.63]) by smtp2.gte.net with ESMTP id LAA10959 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:18:21 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36C461AE.4B7629FB@gte.net> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:15:26 -0800 From: Lady Eleanor X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST - Bronzino's "Lady with a Puppy" References: <4.1.19990206095431.00c82650@pop.slip.net> <36BDE797.4C876F68@gte.net> <36BDF95A.15F18A14@earthlink.net> <36BE0821.F3791EEA@gte.net> <36C3A8CD.AEB42B86@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lady Eleanor Good m'Lord, Yes, I am certainly interested. If you could mail it to me, that would be most kind, and greatly appreciated. My snail-mail is... Gina L. Hill 7807 69th Street NE Marysville, WA 98270-6572 Doesn't Clotilde have a web site? Seems I remember seeing it at one time. I'll look to see if I can find that machine! ;-) Thank you very much for you generous offer! In service and gratitude, Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre (mka:Gina L. Hill) Scott Hulett wrote: > > -Poster: Scott Hulett > > Lady Eleanor, > Going back a little, are you still looking for smocking? I have a great > reference for some rennaisance smocking on a shirt from a german grave site. I would > be happy to snail mail it to you. Also, clotilde has a smocking machine;) > cheers, jd > > Lady Eleanor wrote: > > > -Poster: Lady Eleanor > > > > No need to apologize! Thanks for the directions!! I'm going to try > > this technique. Sounds good. > > > > By the bye...anybody know of any "smocking" sites on the web? I could > > probably figure it out on my own...but would rather have some details to > > start with. :-) > > > > In service, > > Lady Eleanor > > > > Scott Hulett wrote: > > > > > > -Poster: Scott Hulett > > > > > > Abject appologies. Just looked at portrait. Mine will work if you replace the > > > ruffle directions with a flat shirt style collar. Other wise, I think it would > > > work. > > > Cheers, jd > > > > > > Lady Eleanor wrote: > > > > > > > -Poster: Lady Eleanor > > > > > > > > Here's a link: > > > > > > > > http://metalab.unc.edu/cjackson/bronzino/index.html > > > > > > > > with a copy of the portrait in question. Enjoy! > > > > > > > > YIS, > > > > Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre > > > > > > > > Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > > > > > > > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > > > > > > > > > > In Bronzino's "Portrait of a Lady with a Puppy", the lady in > > > > > >question is wearing a very beautiful chemise/shirt/whatever > > > > > >with what appears on close examination to be smocking/ > > > > > >proto-smocking on the collar area, with patterns of crosses, > > > > > >etc, worked into the folds. Does anyone have any idea how > > > > > >this was done? Anybody done it? I have seven yards of > > > > > >very dainty silk I've been hoarding for just such a project..... > > > > > > > > > > > >All Health, and apologies to anyone who had to read the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where can we see a picture of this? Is it in some costume book? Can you > > > > > post it somewhere we can get to? > > > > > > > > > > Kayta > > > > > ////.\\\ > > > > > ////-@@\\\ > > > > > (((( 7 ((( > > > > > | -- )))) > > > > > * ) ((((( > > > > > /----\ /---\ > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > > > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 12:16:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31837 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:16:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA24789; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:19:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA14493 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:19:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA14487 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:19:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.132] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10BMFe-0005zi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:19:38 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990212083145.00c62e00@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:37:29 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: African Masks-help req In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Does anyone know where I could purchase a base for an African Mask to be used >in a play? I'd want to put it on a stick (so hopefully it wouldn't be too >heavy) and I need some sort of base material to work with. I'm a seamstress, >milliner, and sometime (if I must) shoe maker, but masks are just not >something I want to branch into. I'll paint it, but I'd rather not get into >the actual papier mache or whatever. The real ones are carved out of wood. To fake this on stage try a plain piece of poster board (or railroad board, the thin stuff sold as poster board at Walgreen's). Cut it out in the right shape, curve it to look solid, glue a couple of pieces of the cutting scraps across the back to hold the thing curved. Start with white board and colour it with paint, markers, or even crayon. Copy a real African mask you find in a book, or invent something which looks right. Alternatively, I think there is a Dover book of cut-and-paste African masks for kids to make. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 12:20:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31862 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:20:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA25340; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:23:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA14647 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:20:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA14511 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:19:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.132] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10BMFk-0005zi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:19:44 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990212084720.00c6feb0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:48:12 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: Fabric width? In-Reply-To: <000601be552c$01d96920$3922ffd0@default> References: <199902101858.TAA12207@worldonline.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows In 1406, a group of weavers protested >to the King to get the ell established at 5 quarters, ie 5 >quarter yards, or 45." Hence the typical 45" fabric width >today. 36" x 5/4 = 48" Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 12:20:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31866 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:20:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA25088; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:21:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA15122 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:22:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from vail.telesensory.com ([12.7.233.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA15103 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: by vail with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:22:38 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Vickers, Jill" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: 15" waists: surviving garments? Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:22:33 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Vickers, Jill" Yep, that's the lady! >From what I read on her, she achieved this waist specifically for her husband, who became one of the first generally known fetishists of the time because of this. Apparently more fetishists of this type started coming out of the woodwork after all the publicity on Mrs. Granger. Another note is that Mrs. Granger only removed her corset for bathing. -Jill > -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) > > > >>-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >> > >>(take that 50 year old > >>>woman from the late 1950's with the 13" waist-I can't recall her > >>>name) > > "The world's smallest waist belonged to Mrs. Ethel Granger (deceased). > At her ultimate her waist measured just 13". This took a lifetime of > work to achieve and she lived to the ripe old age of 77. However, her > figure was so modified, with her lower ribs collapsed, that few would > find it attractive. Her husband, Will, wrote a biography of Mrs. > Granger titled "An Exclusive Production". It is available from Insight > Books." > > Margery > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 12:21:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31874 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:21:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA25525; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:23:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA14669 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:20:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA14559 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:19:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.132] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10BMFs-0005zi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:19:52 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990212090340.00b1f9e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:05:38 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850s poor but honest? In-Reply-To: <36C238F8.A731B5FB@vaxxine.com> References: <2aa4ec8.36c1e514@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >While Margo is interested in a more exuberant persona, >I'm interested in putting together a late 1850's ensemble for a working >man's tradesman's wife - poor but honest, that's me! > >I see a middle-aged woman who, insofar as she cares what an observer >would make of her, would hope to appear as a decent respectable woman >of her class - a prudent, hard-working good wife. Nothing looks more respectable than a nice sedate plaid, IMHO. Nothing garrish or large. Gingham would be nice, and you can get it in several sizes of check to do fancy with a flounced skirt. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 12:21:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31878 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:21:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA25616; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:24:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA14705 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:20:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA14576 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:19:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.132] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10BMFw-0005zi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:19:56 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990212091642.00c62780@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:17:35 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists: surviving garments? In-Reply-To: <36c4554f.299466@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <4.1.19990212075528.00ca3df0@pop.slip.net> <4.1.19990212075528.00ca3df0@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>(take that 50 year old >>>woman from the late 1950's with the 13" waist-I can't recall her >>>name) >> >>Please find the name. I wanna see the photos of this one - if there >are >>any (and I suspect not). > >There are. I do not recall her name, but she was in the Guiness book >of world records for precisely that reason: World's smallest adlut >waist or some thing like it. Every Guiness book I had as a child had >her picture in it, and I suspect that she still holds that record, >even if they choose not to print it. Thank you. I will look in used book stores for an old copy which would have the picture. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 12:21:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31882 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:21:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA25694; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:24:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA14631 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:20:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA14498 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:19:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.132] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10BMFg-0005zi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:19:41 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990212083851.00c6dab0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:44:41 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: grow tucks In-Reply-To: <199902110245.SAA14038@smtp.pacifier.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Although she is still doing research on this, she thinks that the >tucks *could* very well be growth tucks. Also, since most of the >dresses I've seen have been trained gowns, it would not work as well >to have the tuck go all the way around. It is much better to have it >shorter in front (where you would trip over the hem) and taper off to >the sides rather than involving the train (even if the train is only >as little as 4"). These dresses touch the ground all the way around, even at the sides where the tuck stops. If with growth the dress only gets longer in the front, it will eventually clear the ground at the sides. Wrong for growth tucks and wrong for a floor-length skirt. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 12:21:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31915 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:21:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA25422; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:23:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA14661 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:20:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA14525 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:19:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.132] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10BMFm-0005zi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:19:47 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990212084959.00c6de30@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:51:56 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: grow tucks In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >This tuck sounds like an allowance for pregnancy (assuming >that the portrait is of a female in her child-bearing years). > Having been pregnant, I could not have done it in that corset reguardless of a skirt length change. Doesn't sound like a pregnancy adjustment to me. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 12:22:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31958 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:22:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA25789; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:25:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA15674 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:25:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from nsgoge1.ct.oge.com (sbexchg.oge.com [12.5.242.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA15666 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:25:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from metroexchg.ct.oge.com (metroexchg.ct.oge.com [167.161.21.254]) by nsgoge1.ct.oge.com (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/1.00) with ESMTP id LAA70520 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:22:06 -0600 (CST) Received: by METROEXCHG with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id <1TGL3VQL>; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:25:46 -0600 Message-ID: From: "EPPERSON, SHERYL" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Fabric width? Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:25:37 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "EPPERSON, SHERYL" Check your math-- 36 x 4/3 = 48 36 x 5/4 = 45 Sheryl Epperson. > -----Original Message----- > From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows [SMTP:kayta@slip.net] > Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 10:48 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: RE: H-COST: Fabric width? > > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > In 1406, a group of weavers protested > >to the King to get the ell established at 5 quarters, ie 5 > >quarter yards, or 45." Hence the typical 45" fabric width > >today. > > 36" x 5/4 = 48" > > > Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 12:23:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31968 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:23:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA25781; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:25:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA14664 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:20:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA14532 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:19:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.132] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10BMFo-0005zi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:19:48 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990212085358.00c76e40@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:58:09 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: grow tucks In-Reply-To: <36c4ee0a.11588281@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <4.1.19990210120843.00c4ac80@pop.slip.net> <4.1.19990210120843.00c4ac80@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >My theory is that they are taken in the front of the skirt to allow >for easy walking/dancing/movement. The hoops do that without needing the tuck. Perhaps the dressmaker made the >skirt one length all round (for hang/drape to behave a particular way? >Pattern issues?), One length all around would be to the tuck in front and without the trains these dresses often have in back. then fitted it at the front above the hem in such a >way as not to disturb the applied ornament? Not if the ornament was applied last. I kinda don't think such an obvious feature would be done just to allow some expensive ornament to fold under and not show. Possibly due to different >skirt supports worn at the fittings than when the dress was delivered? That's bad craftsmanship for such an upscale tailor. > >I have made this alteration in dresses/skirts when I have loaned them >out to persons who are differently shaped (at the hip) or wear a >differently shaped support petticoat/skirt support. > >Just a thought.... Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 12:52:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA05297 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:52:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA00625; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:55:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA21072 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:56:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from vail.telesensory.com ([12.7.233.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA21047 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:56:19 -0700 (MST) Received: by vail with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:56:52 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Vickers, Jill" To: "'h-costume'" Subject: H-COST: Corset/Foundation Garment Quotes Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:56:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Vickers, Jill" Dear List, I'm doing a research paper for my Fashion History course on corsetry and other historical foundation garments (alas, I am a historic costume buff in a class full of budding young fashion designers!). I'm interested in collecting quotes on the subject matter for the paper, so if you have a favorite, please share! You can mail it to me privately if you wish at: jvickers@telesensory.com A couple I've found so far, and to give an idea of what I'm looking for: Christian Dior - "Without foundations there can be no fashion." Philippe Perrot - "On the soft wax of the human body, each society stamps its impress." Many Thanks! -Jill _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 13:00:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05437 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:00:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA01927; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:04:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA22530 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:04:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA22495 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:04:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from home (pool038-max7.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.231.88]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA11877 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:04:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:10:09 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE566F.DF14E640.mhull@earthlink.net> From: Hulett To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: H-COST - Bronzino's "Lady with a Puppy" Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:05:41 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 141 TEXT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hulett Think nothing of it Madam. I'm glad to be of service. Alas, my husband's name shows at the head of my messages, I am Joan Hulett, alias jd. I also have a great photo of another Bronzino lady in a similar shift with a close up, I'll throw that in. If you don't find the smocking machine, there is a store close to me which sells all manner of smocking supplies, I'll have a look in. It's done with iron on dots, if I remember rightly, and takes a bit of time. I also live about 10 blocks from AlterYears, so, I'll have a look in there for any other helpful hints. I'd love to see a photo when you're done! Any way you could post one on the newsgroup? With warm regards, jd -----Original Message----- From: Lady Eleanor [SMTP:hekav@gte.net] Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 9:15 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST - Bronzino's "Lady with a Puppy" -Poster: Lady Eleanor Good m'Lord, Yes, I am certainly interested. If you could mail it to me, that would be most kind, and greatly appreciated. My snail-mail is... Gina L. Hill 7807 69th Street NE Marysville, WA 98270-6572 Doesn't Clotilde have a web site? Seems I remember seeing it at one time. I'll look to see if I can find that machine! ;-) Thank you very much for you generous offer! In service and gratitude, Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre (mka:Gina L. Hill) Scott Hulett wrote: > > -Poster: Scott Hulett > > Lady Eleanor, > Going back a little, are you still looking for smocking? I have a great > reference for some rennaisance smocking on a shirt from a german grave site. I would > be happy to snail mail it to you. Also, clotilde has a smocking machine;) > cheers, jd > > Lady Eleanor wrote: > > > -Poster: Lady Eleanor > > > > No need to apologize! Thanks for the directions!! I'm going to try > > this technique. Sounds good. > > > > By the bye...anybody know of any "smocking" sites on the web? I could > > probably figure it out on my own...but would rather have some details to > > start with. :-) > > > > In service, > > Lady Eleanor > > > > Scott Hulett wrote: > > > > > > -Poster: Scott Hulett > > > > > > Abject appologies. Just looked at portrait. Mine will work if you replace the > > > ruffle directions with a flat shirt style collar. Other wise, I think it would > > > work. > > > Cheers, jd > > > > > > Lady Eleanor wrote: > > > > > > > -Poster: Lady Eleanor > > > > > > > > Here's a link: > > > > > > > > http://metalab.unc.edu/cjackson/bronzino/index.html > > > > > > > > with a copy of the portrait in question. Enjoy! > > > > > > > > YIS, > > > > Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre > > > > > > > > Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > > > > > > > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > > > > > > > > > > In Bronzino's "Portrait of a Lady with a Puppy", the lady in > > > > > >question is wearing a very beautiful chemise/shirt/whatever > > > > > >with what appears on close examination to be smocking/ > > > > > >proto-smocking on the collar area, with patterns of crosses, > > > > > >etc, worked into the folds. Does anyone have any idea how > > > > > >this was done? Anybody done it? I have seven yards of > > > > > >very dainty silk I've been hoarding for just such a project..... > > > > > > > > > > > >All Health, and apologies to anyone who had to read the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where can we see a picture of this? Is it in some costume book? Can you > > > > > post it somewhere we can get to? > > > > > > > > > > Kayta > > > > > ////.\\\ > > > > > ////-@@\\\ > > > > > (((( 7 ((( > > > > > | -- )))) > > > > > * ) ((((( > > > > > /----\ /---\ > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > > > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 13:03:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05455 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:03:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA02078; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:04:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA22726 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:05:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA22706 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:05:28 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id IVQVa20553 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:46:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:46:35 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: African Masks-help req Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 2/12/1999 09:20:36 Pacific Standard Time, kayta@slip.net writes: << To fake this on stage try a plain piece of poster board (or railroad board, the thin stuff sold as poster board at Walgreen's). Cut it out in the right shape, curve it to look solid, glue a couple of pieces of the cutting scraps across the back to hold the thing curved. Start with white board and colour it with paint, markers, or even crayon. Copy a real African mask you find in a book, or invent something which looks right. >> Yeah, I've got some great pics I've pulled off-line, but was kinda hoping for something a little sturdier than paper. This is for a traveling troupe, and they apparently take stuff on the road, around to schools, etc., and so I wanted something that could get banged around and hold up okay. I guess that they make pretty heavy papers, but I'd love to get some thin wood and curve it. Just don't have much time to put something together. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 13:47:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05736 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:47:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA08300; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:48:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA00585 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:49:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.austin.rr.com (fe2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA00571 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:49:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from cs63-200.austin.rr.com ([24.93.63.200]) by mail2.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:42:47 -0600 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: grow tucks Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 18:57:29 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <36cc7722.8959198@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <4.1.19990210120843.00c4ac80@pop.slip.net> <4.1.19990210120843.00c4ac80@pop.slip.net> <4.1.19990212085358.00c76e40@pop.slip.net> In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990212085358.00c76e40@pop.slip.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id NAA05736 Status: O -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) It came to me, a couple of days after I posted my previous message, that it could be to adjust the front length of the skirt after it had stretched under its own weight. *or* Perhaps there was a formal court presentation convention that skirts had to be *made*, but not necessarily worn at, a certain length, past comfortable walking length, even over hoops ? All of us have seen skirts made too long even for practical wear over the hoops they are worn with, getting stepped on by the wearer, despite the apparent width of the hoops. The 'tuck' is *so* obvious in at least one of the paintings I have seen it in, that perhaps it is only pinned up, and not sewn after all. One painting shows the tuck clearly passing *through* the ornament (meaning that the ornament is clearly not applied over it). Pinning up a skirt to show off fashionable shoes, perhaps? Pinning would also be fairly safe for the wearer if the pins were only in the outer skirt, over a petticoat and a farthingale. Margery -----rio@austin.rr.com---Goddess of Last Minute Miracles--- "We went out with both lips blazing, and a pen in either hand..." - the Flash Girls -{*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*}- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 13:47:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05737 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:47:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA08445; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:49:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA00706 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:50:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from disco.imag.net (disco.imag.net [204.244.225.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA00691 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:50:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from staff210-136.imag.net (staff210-136.imag.net [209.17.136.210]) by disco.imag.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA12917 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:44:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990212104949.00c96de0@silverspin.net> X-Sender: karla@silverspin.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:49:49 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Karla Sexsmith Subject: H-COST: can someone identify a dress style for me please? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Karla Sexsmith Hi everyone, I was looking at some images on the web today, and found some dresses that I would like to attempt to copy, but I don't know what the name for them is. Could someone please look at this picture: http://humanities.uchicago.edu/images/heures/august.jpg (it's August from Les Tres Riches Heures de Duc de Berry) and tell me what the style of gowns shown here is called? In particular, the pink one on the far left... I'm trying to find a style of gown that would be really fancy, but not tudor/elizabethan, and not rennaisance, and that would still suit me (I'm short (5'4"), large(~300lbs), and carry most of my weight in my stomach. Thanks! Karla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 13:52:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05782 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:52:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA09326; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:54:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA01422 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:55:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from deliverator.io.com (deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA01406 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:55:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from anarchy.io.com (root@anarchy.io.com [199.170.88.101]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA22594 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:55:01 -0600 Received: from dillinger-2.io.com (ches@dillinger-2.io.com [199.170.88.20]) by anarchy.io.com (8.9.1/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA09612 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:55:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by dillinger-2.io.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13678 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:54:59 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: dillinger-2.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:54:59 -0600 (CST) From: ches To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: can someone identify a dress style for me please? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990212104949.00c96de0@silverspin.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ches Try Flemish. There are great examples of them in most illumination books. There is one, (it at home), that has the coat of arms for an entire family through a century and it shows each person wearing the latest style of their period. Very nice! These look Flemish/German. On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, Karla Sexsmith wrote: > Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:49:49 -0800 > From: Karla Sexsmith > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: can someone identify a dress style for me please? > > > -Poster: Karla Sexsmith > > Hi everyone, > > I was looking at some images on the web today, and found some dresses that > I would like to attempt to copy, but I don't know what the name for them is. > > Could someone please look at this picture: > http://humanities.uchicago.edu/images/heures/august.jpg > (it's August from Les Tres Riches Heures de Duc de Berry) > > and tell me what the style of gowns shown here is called? In particular, > the pink one on the far left... > > I'm trying to find a style of gown that would be really fancy, but not > tudor/elizabethan, and not rennaisance, and that would still suit me (I'm > short (5'4"), large(~300lbs), and carry most of my weight in my stomach. > > Thanks! > Karla > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 14:00:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05850 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:00:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA11024; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:03:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA03092 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:04:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA03074 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:04:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p19.directcon.net [206.170.184.68]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA01669 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:58:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:58:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902121858.KAA01669@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850's questions Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 07:54 AM 2/12/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >If you want to look like a Madam, go tawdry. Colours too loud, neckline >too low (excuse me - 'dressy'), decorations too large, etc.. Like New >Money. Like advertising. And don't worry about making yourself look >thinner for the occasion. That's about what I was thinking. Possibly an emerald green and magenta combination, or my favorite red and black? And no, I'm not trying to look thinner for an occasion (been there, done that, gave Weight Watchers too much money) but for the rest of my life, and to avoid going blind from the diabetes that runs on both sides of my family. I'm calling it my "most basic costume" project. I'm probably the only person at the gym who uses creative visualization of different costumes to get me through the weight routine! The thigh machine is dedicated to Cyd Charrise's green number from "Singing in the Rain", the tricep machine is so I'll look good in sleeveless 1930's...you get the idea. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 14:00:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05854 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:00:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA10906; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:03:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA02780 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:02:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA02715 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a04.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.132]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA21374 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:01:52 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36C47A9D.D269CF1E@nash.tds.net> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:01:49 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: can someone identify a dress style for me please? References: <3.0.1.32.19990212104949.00c96de0@silverspin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat The pink dress and the blue dress to the left of the picture look like houppelandes to me. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 14:08:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07396 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:08:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA12212; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:11:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA04246 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:11:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA04224 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:11:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p19.directcon.net [206.170.184.68]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA02618 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:05:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:05:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902121905.LAA02618@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: RE: H-COST: Fabric width? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson I've always wondered if the standard 45" width had to do with that being aproximatly the width needed to wrap a sari. Just a guess. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 14:09:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA08733 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:09:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA12078; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:10:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA04130 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:10:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from www0j.netaddress.usa.net (www0j.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.39]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA04109 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:10:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 16298 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Feb 1999 19:05:09 -0000 Message-ID: <19990212190509.16297.qmail@www0j.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 209.122.3.3 by www.netaddress.com via web-mailer(3.1) on Fri Feb 12 19:05:08 GMT 1999 Date: 12 Feb 99 12:05:08 MST From: Orlaith To: Subject: Re: H-COST: 'chainmail' sweaters Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----NetAddressPart-00--=_LTFi4592Sww9a32059" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Orlaith This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------NetAddressPart-00--=_LTFi4592Sww9a32059 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just talked to my director friend. He said that you can get the pattern from Tobins Lake Studios. They are a theater supply company. He found an old catalog from them that had the following information. Tobins Lake Studios 2650 Seven Mile Road South Lyon Michigan 48178. Phone number 313-449-4444. He also had some of the cord around and gave me the info on that. You can order it from Tobins or buy it from Hechingers. It is fishing net cord made of 100% nylon. #36 weight in 1 pound cones. he said it is marked "seine twine". As I recall the finished mail looked pretty good from the house although the pants seemed to suffer the most from inexperienced knitters. I don't know if you want to use this option, but I think it would look better than cutting up old sweaters since the knitting on sweaters would be to small to be seen from the stage. Hope this helps. Orlaith/Beth ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------NetAddressPart-00--=_LTFi4592Sww9a32059 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Forwarded Message" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from 209.122.3.3 by www.netaddress.com via web-mailer(3.1) on Fri Feb 12 15:21:45 GMT 1999 Date: 12 Feb 99 08:21:45 MST From: Orlaith To: Subject: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually I have made these. A couple of years ago I made a whole chainmail suit for an old friend's production of Camelot. Of course I have moved once and am planning on moving again in the near future so have no idea where my instructions are. I do remember that we used a satiny rope in place of yarn (necessary so it will read from the stage). Also I know he got the directons from some sort of theater source because I remember there was a logo on the instruction pages. Emmitt had at least 4 people making mail and I think we made about 10 full sets. I would suggest checking with local college theater departments to see if they can help you find the directions. If I can get hold of Emmitt I will post more information. Beth/Orlaith -Poster: Kent & Kat Has anyone ever cut up old sweaters to make 'chainmail' coifs? I'm thinking I need to stitch the sweater material to some sturdy cloth first (fortunately I'm not doing the silver painting!). Any suggestions? Kat ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------NetAddressPart-00--=_LTFi4592Sww9a32059-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 15:05:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12347 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:05:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA21000; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:07:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA14299 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:08:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.strayer.edu (mail1.strayer.edu [199.75.74.178]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA14284 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:08:04 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902122008.NAA14284@indra.com> X-WM-Posted-At: mail1.strayer.edu; Fri, 12 Feb 99 15:15:34 -0500 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:15:34 -0500 From: THOMAS PETRO To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: Orlaith@usa.net X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002320 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.20 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: THOMAS PETRO Hello, Can you tell me if you have any information on where I can get sewing patterns for World War Two British Army uniforms? I would appreciate any information. Thank you, Tom Petro _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 15:15:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12381 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:15:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA22719; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:17:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA15813 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:18:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA15801 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:18:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from home (pool016-max3.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.230.116]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA15816 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:18:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:24:00 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE5682.91A995A0.mhull@earthlink.net> From: Hulett To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: can someone identify a dress style for me please? Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:23:49 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 36 TEXT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hulett Yup, it's a houpeland. And based on your description, that style would suit you very well. I have a good pattern for this sort of houpe if you need it. (well, instructions really) Cheers, jd p.s. don't you love the colour? I do. -----Original Message----- From: Karla Sexsmith [SMTP:karla@silverspin.net] Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 10:50 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: can someone identify a dress style for me please? -Poster: Karla Sexsmith Hi everyone, I was looking at some images on the web today, and found some dresses that I would like to attempt to copy, but I don't know what the name for them is. Could someone please look at this picture: http://humanities.uchicago.edu/images/heures/august.jpg (it's August from Les Tres Riches Heures de Duc de Berry) and tell me what the style of gowns shown here is called? In particular, the pink one on the far left... I'm trying to find a style of gown that would be really fancy, but not tudor/elizabethan, and not rennaisance, and that would still suit me (I'm short (5'4"), large(~300lbs), and carry most of my weight in my stomach. Thanks! Karla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 15:20:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12400 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:20:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA23342; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:23:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA16492 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:23:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from names.telcom.wvu.edu (names.wvu.edu [157.182.140.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA16475 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:23:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from wvulib1.lib.wvu.edu ([157.182.225.205]) by names.telcom.wvu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/JLF-19981102) with SMTP id PAA22112 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:23:04 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990212151939.006aba60@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> X-Sender: khoover@wvnvm.wvnet.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:19:40 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: KATHY HOOVER Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists: surviving garments? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: KATHY HOOVER At 05:03 PM 2/12/99 GMT, you wrote: > >"The world's smallest waist belonged to Mrs. Ethel Granger (deceased). >At her ultimate her waist measured just 13". I found a picture online of Mrs. Granger. Go to: http://www.staylace.com/granger.jpg Kathy Hoover This took a lifetime of >work to achieve and she lived to the ripe old age of 77. However, her >figure was so modified, with her lower ribs collapsed, that few would >find it attractive. Her husband, Will, wrote a biography of Mrs. >Granger titled "An Exclusive Production". It is available from Insight >Books." > >THere are lots of pictures of her. Go the library and look her up in >an old issue of Guiness book of world records, maybe from the 70's or >80's. There will be a pic of her ultra-tiny waist. It liiks like an >actual wasp's waist. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 15:29:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12433 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:29:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA24170; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:31:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA17659 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:31:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub4.cc.columbia.edu (cu41754@mailhub4.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.148]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA17644 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:31:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from [128.59.232.100] (pinedo.cerc.columbia.edu [128.59.232.100]) by mailhub4.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA15730 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:31:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:31:50 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: kara.rodgers@mindspring.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kara Amelia Rodgers Subject: H-COST: Bordino's smocked shirt Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kara Amelia Rodgers What do you mean by a smocking machine? Do you mean a machine that makes the pleats that you embroider over (what my mom always called a "pleater") or something that does the embroidery for you? If it's the latter, it's new to me, and it sounds pretty cool. I have far more experience wearing smocked clothes than with making them, but my mother owned a smocking shop when I was a little girl. I know of 2 ways to do smocking: either using iron on dots to do a pattern, or using a pleater to create the pleats on cut pieces of cloth and embroider over those. My mother used to pleat cloth for people to smock for a small fee. If you can find someone with a smocking shop in your area, you may be able to get them to pleat your cloth for you. Of course, all my information is about 15 years out of date and something new may have hit the market in the mean time. It sounds like you've picked a beautiful shirt to make, best of luck, Kara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 15:36:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12461 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:36:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA24915; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:36:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA18579 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:37:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub4.cc.columbia.edu (cu41754@mailhub4.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.148]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA18567 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:37:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from [128.59.232.100] (pinedo.cerc.columbia.edu [128.59.232.100]) by mailhub4.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17563 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:37:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:37:20 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: kara.rodgers@mindspring.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kara Amelia Rodgers Subject: H-COST: patterns and pattern making Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kara Amelia Rodgers I just wanted to say thank you for all of the advice and suggestions you have given me for getting started in costuming. It's been very helpful and I appreciate it. I think I now have what I need to get started. Happy sewing, Kara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 15:37:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12468 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:37:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA25393; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:39:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA18907 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:39:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from dias.net (dias.net [199.170.176.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA18894 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:39:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ophelia@localhost) by dias.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA24833; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:47:58 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ophelia@dias.net) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:47:57 -0600 (CST) From: "Sara J. Davitt" To: MzScahlett@aol.com cc: Historic Costumers! Subject: Re: H-COST: African Masks-help req In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Sara J. Davitt" how about going to a thrift shop. and finding a bunch of those tacky old monkeypod wood salad bowls.... then cut eyeholes, and build up fron there... you could even find those 'decorative spoon and forks' whith thecarves handles, cut them off, and glue them onto the bain bowl/mask for a carved element. if the bowl is too round-looking take a saw, and cut it into thirds... and then cut down the side thirds into wood bits for the 'carved elements' DOn't forget drilling holes around edges onto which to loop Raffia ()larkshead knot) for hair/beards.. Good luck! Sarahj **2Y's**UR**2Y's**UB**IC**UR**2Y's**4Me** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 15:45:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12498 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:45:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA27144; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:48:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA20476 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:49:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA20449 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:48:58 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id HRCBa05340 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:42:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9101a284.36c49226@aol.com> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:42:14 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850's questions Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 2/12/99 2:06:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << or my favorite red and black? >> Don't do that cliche....please! It's much more interesting to do it without doing it....like coral & black, or red & dark brown, or coral & midnight blue....you get the idea. Actually I'll never forget a design I saw for "Ah Wilderness" [I know it's turn of the century....bear with me] where the character of the local girl who...er...puts out...was in a lovely, Indian muslin & white work shirtwaist and a brown challis trumpet skirt. How did this make her look loose & fast? The combo of sheer, underthing-showing top & hip clinging, tailored swingy skirt. Very sexy. Later I saw another production with this character in red with black lace. It didn't work. She looked like a saloon girl. Anyway, the point was: this was [yet another] lesson in getting the point across without using a cliche. That's always refreshing. End of lecture I just remembered..."The French Lt.'s Woman" has some tatty London whores. Old ballgowns, way too much bad makeup & being drunk got the point across. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 15:57:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12542 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:57:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA29272; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:00:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA22623 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:01:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id OAA22606 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:01:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:01:04 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:05:46 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Smocking, was Bordino's smocked shirt Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Kara Amelia Rodgers Kara wrote: > >What do you mean by a smocking machine? Do you mean a machine that makes >the pleats that you embroider over (what my mom always called a "pleater") >or something that does the embroidery for you? If it's the latter, it's new >to me, and it sounds pretty cool. > >I have far more experience wearing smocked clothes than with making them, >but my mother owned a smocking shop when I was a little girl. I know of 2 >ways to do smocking: either using iron on dots to do a pattern, or using a >pleater to create the pleats on cut pieces of cloth and embroider over >those. My mother used to pleat cloth for people to smock for a small fee. >If you can find someone with a smocking shop in your area, you may be able >to get them to pleat your cloth for you. Of course, all my information is >about 15 years out of date and something new may have hit the market in the >mean time. A smocking machine does actually make the pleats and then you do the smocking. I had an opportunity to buy one a few years ago and let it slip through my fingers. Sigh. In the SF Bay area, as recently as last year, Lacis would pleat cloth, just as your mother did, for a fee. Can't remember the fee, just that they would do it. I seem to remember that they also sell the machines. Never worked there. Spent lots of money and drool there. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 16:21:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA12641 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:21:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA03165; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:24:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA26711 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:24:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA26659 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:24:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from picard.dnaco.net (aleed@picard.dnaco.net [207.238.206.4]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA24924 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:27:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by picard.dnaco.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA09313 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:26:04 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: picard.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:26:02 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Elizabethan make-up Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed I want to thank all of the members of the list who gave me suggestions on sources for information on 16th century make-up. I got a lot of information and at least two great books out of it. I put up a short article on the subject at http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/makeup.html, if anyone is interested. Thanks again, Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 16:42:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA12728 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:42:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA07180; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:45:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA00422 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:46:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from schultz.io.com (ches@schultz.io.com [199.170.88.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA00411 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:46:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by schultz.io.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA18457; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:46:19 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: schultz.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:46:19 -0600 (CST) From: ches To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME cc: Wetlands Mailing list , Robin Moon , Mark Willis , SCA Ansteorra List , RRFCoList@onelist.com Subject: H-COST: more on gloves Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ches Please forward this to any other lists you all are on that are interested in making gloves. I spent most of yesterday finding as many glove related URL's that were not medical or industrial related from several search engines, (not all list the same url's) and added them to my page. I am picky so the sexual content ones also got weeded. Sorry if that offends anyone. Make your own. There are a few that will custom make them for you, know that all the links are commercial in one form or another. I do not get any kick backs from them they are just any fyi. I am waiting on one more for permission. She seems a bit uptight so unless I get it I am not going to list her page there or here. Ches http://www.io.com/~ches/gloves.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 17:08:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA12855 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 17:08:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA12040; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:12:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA04938 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:12:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA04926 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:12:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from home (pool025-max14.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.232.175]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA16162 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:12:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:18:21 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE5692.8B3E9160.mhull@earthlink.net> From: Hulett To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: can someone identify a dress style for me please? Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 14:17:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 71 TEXT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hulett These are Burgundian, from the Tres Riches Heures manuscripts. They are shown on page 302 in Davenports the Book of Costume. For a great flemish houpe, look on page 305 at Jean van Eycks Arnolfini marraige portrait. It's even better in color. Or go here, http://www.oir.ucf.edu/wm/paint/auth/eyck/arnolfini , click on the image and see a great scan. Houpes, in my view, aren't that different from country to country, just the details change. The sleeves, head wear and belts, or decoration may vary, but the basic shape is the same. It is not difficult to cut or make a houpe, you must have tons of fabric though to make it look right. Mine has 7 yards of 60" wool in it, lined with linen and trimmed with fur. I was lucky, I found the wool at the swap meet for 3 bucks a yard. The linen too. So I was able to try it without feeling I couldn't afford a mistake. Cheers, jd -----Original Message----- From: ches [SMTP:ches@io.com] Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 10:55 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: can someone identify a dress style for me please? -Poster: ches Try Flemish. There are great examples of them in most illumination books. There is one, (it at home), that has the coat of arms for an entire family through a century and it shows each person wearing the latest style of their period. Very nice! These look Flemish/German. On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, Karla Sexsmith wrote: > Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:49:49 -0800 > From: Karla Sexsmith > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: can someone identify a dress style for me please? > > > -Poster: Karla Sexsmith > > Hi everyone, > > I was looking at some images on the web today, and found some dresses that > I would like to attempt to copy, but I don't know what the name for them is. > > Could someone please look at this picture: > http://humanities.uchicago.edu/images/heures/august.jpg > (it's August from Les Tres Riches Heures de Duc de Berry) > > and tell me what the style of gowns shown here is called? In particular, > the pink one on the far left... > > I'm trying to find a style of gown that would be really fancy, but not > tudor/elizabethan, and not rennaisance, and that would still suit me (I'm > short (5'4"), large(~300lbs), and carry most of my weight in my stomach. > > Thanks! > Karla > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 17:22:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA12906 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 17:22:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA14220; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:26:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA07013 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:26:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA06993 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:26:43 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id AEEWa07798; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 17:17:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 17:17:54 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: ches@io.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: more on gloves Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com the glove pattern is wonderful. However, the "thumb" picture won't come up. Can you double check your loading site? thanks, angil + + + + + + + Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing "Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds" A. Einstein _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 17:23:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA12915 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 17:23:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA14378; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:27:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA07235 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:27:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA07197 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:27:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA09306 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:28:10 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:28:10 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850's questions In-Reply-To: <9101a284.36c49226@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> Well, since you're playing a "loose woman"....why not green? *innocent smile* Emma > > << or my favorite red and black? > >> > > Don't do that cliche....please! It's much more interesting to do it without > doing it....like coral & black, or red & dark brown, or coral & midnight > blue....you get the idea. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 17:56:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA13102 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 17:56:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA19754; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:00:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA16172 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:00:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA16130 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:00:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.202 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:00:13 -0800 From: To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 18:03:46 -0500 Message-ID: <000501be56dc$255872e0$b314ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990212081821.00afae70@pop.slip.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: No you won't get shot, I did consider it. Sturbridge Village and Old Fort William use visible machine stitching. Machine quilting is an art all its own, and I don't do it (yet, anyway). I have a tiny group of players, and an extremely mixed audience---on the one hand every third grader in town is schlepped through the house, but in the summer, the place is staffed and visited by Philosophy Ph.D. profs and students from all over the world. I think the former group needs to come face to face with the old technology, and the latter group would just love the heck out of it. Now it is unlikely that I will accomplish any hand or machine quilting in my lifetime, but the producer in me says there is a hobbyist out there in town somewhere just waiting for this good public cause. Wish me luck! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 11:20 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows The Philadelphia Museum of art quilted >petticoat is definitely a "not in this lifetime" kind of >project, but taken together the extant examples do confirm >"a look" to go after. Do I get shot at if I suggest machine quilting? You should be able to quilt a whole petticoat in a couple of days that way, and it would really be quilted. Machine quilting books would explain process and proceedure. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 18:17:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA13189 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 18:17:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA22687; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:19:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA22808 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:19:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from send106.yahoomail.com (send106.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.43]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id QAA22741 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:19:29 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990212231935.26315.rocketmail@send106.yahoomail.com> Received: from [153.35.254.38] by send106.yahoomail.com; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:19:35 PST Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:19:35 -0800 (PST) From: "Kristen M. Sieber" Subject: Re: H-COST: can someone identify a dress style for me please? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" Karla Sexsmith wrote: > > > -Poster: Karla Sexsmith > > Hi everyone, > > I was looking at some images on the web today, and found some dresses that > I would like to attempt to copy, but I don't know what the name for them is. > Did you want the country or the style? IMHO I would have to say that that is a houpelande. == Morgaine of Glastonbury MKA Kristen Morgaine Sieber Barony of Aquaterra Kingdom of An Tir lady_gawain@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 18:38:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA13448 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 18:38:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA25737; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:41:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA29891 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:41:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from server1.mich.com (root@server1.mich.com [198.108.16.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA29878 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:41:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from raille (pm187-26.dialip.mich.net [198.110.44.36]) by server1.mich.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA23465 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 18:41:33 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990212184859.007b0370@onramp.i2k.com> X-Sender: alwen@onramp.i2k.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 18:48:59 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Lynn Carpenter Subject: H-COST: Chinese foot-binding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Carpenter Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >>If the binding of ones feet in China from a child on would keep the foot >>small and not growing, so would a corset binding the body from childhood. > >Food binding does not keep the foot from growing. It just folds the foot >in half and keeps it in the shape of a foot which has not grown. If you >want to get gruesome, look at an x-ray of a bound foot. All the bones are >there.. A pretty gruesome description of what happened to the bound foot: "First person accounts of the procedure testify that it was extremely painful. The girl's feet were bound tightly with a 15-foot bandage, which forced the four small toes inward and under the sole. The large toe was left free. Then the heel and toe were drawn forcefully, breaking the arch. A foot that had been bound exceptionally well, a "golden lotus," would usually measure only 3 inches." (From http://www.kowloontraders.com/jan98.html) And somewhere I read (on a museum card by some "golden lotus" shoes) that sometimes foot tissue was lost to gangrene from all this breaking and binding. Urgh. Lynn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 18:39:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA13474 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 18:39:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA26026; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:43:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA27789 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:33:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA27729 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:32:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from home (pool033-max13.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.232.133]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA08589 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:32:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:38:34 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE569D.C0166560.mhull@earthlink.net> From: Hulett To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Bordino's smocked shirt Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:31:20 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 39 TEXT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hulett yes, that is what I meant. Clotilde always has a great section on smocking. And the beauty of it is, you could let the machine do the pleating and spend your time working out a nice embroidery pattern from a painting. There are so many to choose from. cheers, jd -----Original Message----- From: Kara Amelia Rodgers [SMTP:rodgers@wpti.org] Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 12:32 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Bordino's smocked shirt -Poster: Kara Amelia Rodgers What do you mean by a smocking machine? Do you mean a machine that makes the pleats that you embroider over (what my mom always called a "pleater") or something that does the embroidery for you? If it's the latter, it's new to me, and it sounds pretty cool. I have far more experience wearing smocked clothes than with making them, but my mother owned a smocking shop when I was a little girl. I know of 2 ways to do smocking: either using iron on dots to do a pattern, or using a pleater to create the pleats on cut pieces of cloth and embroider over those. My mother used to pleat cloth for people to smock for a small fee. If you can find someone with a smocking shop in your area, you may be able to get them to pleat your cloth for you. Of course, all my information is about 15 years out of date and something new may have hit the market in the mean time. It sounds like you've picked a beautiful shirt to make, best of luck, Kara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 21:11:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA14144 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:11:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA13290; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:15:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA17153 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:15:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from sleepy.usu.edu (sleepy.usu.edu [129.123.1.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA17130; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:15:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [129.123.250.36] ("port 2048"@ppp36.pm4.usu.edu) by cc.usu.edu (PMDF V5.1-12 #23984) with ESMTP id <01J7O13RM87M95RYVF@cc.usu.edu>; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:15:15 MST Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:22:40 -0700 From: Karalee Larsen Pugmire Subject: H-COST: Colobium? X-Sender: Francesca.da.Bari@pop.netaddress.com To: "Costume.list":;;@usa.net@indra.com@server.indra.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Karalee Larsen Pugmire Dear H-Costumers, I ran across this image: http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/text/Early.Christian/CD25.ht ml I'm interested in 11th to 14th century *southern* Italian garb. My research into the history says that it is very different from northern Italian and the rest of Europe being far more tolerant of various cultures influence by Byzantine, European (through the Italo-normans), and Arabic peoples all at once. Even the researchers say that it is difficult to find much about it since all the books on Medieval Sicily and the boot are in Latin, Greek, and Arabic and there isn't a researcher out there right now that knows all three tolerably to be competent. So now to my question. The caption for the slide mentions a colobium. What the hell is a colobium? I can find nothing about it in Greek costumes or Roman costumes. Can someone please help me? I'm also interested in any more places I could look for southern Italian garb. With humble thanks, Francesca da Bari Cote du Ciel (Logan, Utah) Francesca.da.Bari _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 21:28:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA14204 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:28:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA14615; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:32:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA18462 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:32:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.bctel.ca (nfs1.bctel.ca [207.194.28.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA18456 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:32:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (kmlp01m01-44.bctel.ca [207.102.34.44]) by mail1.bctel.ca with SMTP id SAA19266 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 18:32:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C4E53C.11FE@bc.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 18:36:44 -0800 From: Gena Crowston X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-SYMPA (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gena Crowston > - -Poster: Appin1@aol.com > > Folkwear used to make a quilted petticoat pattern, which I have. I don't know > if they still make it though. > > Kathleen Norvell You know, I may *just* have this pattern sitting in my pattern cabinet at home (and, of course, I'm not there now). I will check when I get home and get back to you in about a week or so (I don't have access to a computer at home - have to use mom's). If memory serves, it *is* a Folkwear pattern. My mom got it for me from my aunt when she closed down her costume shop and thought it would be useful for me and my costuming pursuits. Let you know soon, Katrynka Chornovoloskaya (mka - Glenda Hohmann) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 21:47:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA14299 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:47:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA16918; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:51:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA20044 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:51:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA20039 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:51:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.142] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10BVBF-0004eI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 18:51:41 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 18:14:13 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: H-COST: Re: chain mail In-Reply-To: <19990212152145.24185.qmail@nw176.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" I don't have a copy of the Costume Technician's Handbook handy--but didn't it, or the piece it companions have instructions, too? Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 21:47:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA14303 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:47:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA16952; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:51:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA20073 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:51:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA20064 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:51:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.142] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10BVBM-0004eI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 18:51:48 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 18:35:00 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: African Masks-help req In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" How about thick styrofoam, sculpted and then painted? Make a few, just in case. :-) Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 21:48:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA14310 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:48:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA17085; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:52:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA20174 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:52:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA20168 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:52:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from home (pool047-max1.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.230.47]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA06065 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 18:52:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 18:58:11 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE56B9.A29BA380.mhull@earthlink.net> From: Hulett To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Colobium? Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 18:57:56 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 48 TEXT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hulett Well, did a metacrawler search for colobium and got this site: http://www.sla.purdue.edu/medieval-studies/Corpus/C044.htm Towards the end of the page a description of christ on the cross in a colobium "a sleeves gown or robe". It is from a last judgement from and Irish manuscript in the 8th century. cheers, jd -----Original Message----- From: Karalee Larsen Pugmire [SMTP:Francesca.da.Bari@usa.net] Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 6:23 PM To: "Costume.list":;;@usa.net@indra.com@server.indra.com Subject: H-COST: Colobium? -Poster: Karalee Larsen Pugmire Dear H-Costumers, I ran across this image: http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/text/Early.Christian /CD25.ht ml I'm interested in 11th to 14th century *southern* Italian garb. My research into the history says that it is very different from northern Italian and the rest of Europe being far more tolerant of various cultures influence by Byzantine, European (through the Italo-normans), and Arabic peoples all at once. Even the researchers say that it is difficult to find much about it since all the books on Medieval Sicily and the boot are in Latin, Greek, and Arabic and there isn't a researcher out there right now that knows all three tolerably to be competent. So now to my question. The caption for the slide mentions a colobium. What the hell is a colobium? I can find nothing about it in Greek costumes or Roman costumes. Can someone please help me? I'm also interested in any more places I could look for southern Italian garb. With humble thanks, Francesca da Bari Cote du Ciel (Logan, Utah) Francesca.da.Bari _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 21:51:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA14329 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:51:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA17456; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:55:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA20406 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:55:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.strayer.edu (mail1.strayer.edu [199.75.74.178]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA20391 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:55:27 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902130255.TAA20391@indra.com> X-WM-Posted-At: mail1.strayer.edu; Fri, 12 Feb 99 22:03:00 -0500 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 22:03:00 -0500 From: THOMAS PETRO To: h-costume@indra.com X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002320 Subject: H-COST: World War Two patterns??? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.20 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: THOMAS PETRO Thanks to all who have tried to help me! I really appreciate all the help. Unfortunately I am still looking for these elusive uniform patterns. I just can't believe I can find uniform patterns for every other era except World War Two. It' just unbelieveable!!! Thanks again, Tom Petro _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 22:23:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14450 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 22:23:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA22493; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:27:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA23176 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:27:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.strayer.edu (mail1.strayer.edu [199.75.74.178]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA23163 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:27:09 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902130327.UAA23163@indra.com> X-WM-Posted-At: mail1.strayer.edu; Fri, 12 Feb 99 22:34:40 -0500 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 22:34:40 -0500 From: THOMAS PETRO To: h-costume@indra.com X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002320 Subject: H-COST: The 15th Scottish Division Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.20 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: THOMAS PETRO Scott, Thanks, but I've been there. Actually, I'm trying to get into the 15th Scottish Div. That's what I wanted the uniform for. I'm also thinking about joining the 1st Independent Polish Airborne, and needed the Denison Smock for that unit along with the British Battle Dress uniform. So, actually I need a few uniforms, that's why I wanted sewing patterns, so I don't go broke! Thanks again. Tom Petro _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 22:28:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14469 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 22:28:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA23124; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:32:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA23820 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:32:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA23809 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:32:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.96.178.56] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 10BVoX-0003I8-00; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 22:32:17 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990213033052.006d4804@mail.widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@mail.widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 22:30:52 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: The 15th Scottish Division Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 10:34 PM 2/12/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: THOMAS PETRO > >Scott, > Thanks, but I've been there. Actually, I'm trying to get into the 15th >Scottish Div. That's what I wanted the uniform for. I'm also thinking about >joining the 1st Independent Polish Airborne, and needed the Denison Smock for >that unit along with the British Battle Dress uniform. So, actually I need a >few uniforms, that's why I wanted sewing patterns, so I don't go broke! >Thanks again. > >Tom Petro > > _________________________________________________________________ > Whoa!!! That's my group! (The 15th Scottish I mean). Are you particularly large? Uniforms are only really expensive if you are large (and size 18s are hard to find). Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 22:37:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA14501 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 22:37:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA24084; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:41:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA24819 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:41:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.strayer.edu (mail1.strayer.edu [199.75.74.178]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA24797 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:41:14 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902130341.UAA24797@indra.com> X-WM-Posted-At: mail1.strayer.edu; Fri, 12 Feb 99 22:48:48 -0500 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 22:48:48 -0500 From: THOMAS PETRO To: h-costume@indra.com X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002320 Subject: H-COST: The 15th Scottish Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailer: WebMail (Hydra) SMTP v3.20 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: THOMAS PETRO Hey Ron, I've been in contact with Sean Foster for the past several weeks! I gave Sean my measurements and he said I would probably need size 18, and in some cases a size 15. That's why I'm trying to find sewing patterns, and Glenn Harlan(?) had told me that he had to basically make his own patterns. So, I'm up the proverbial creek without a darn paddle. However, like I told Sean, someone on this list said that they can make patterns from pictures, but I was thinking about finding a ragged out smaller uniform, pattern 1937, 1940, or 1949-1950 for them to look at. By the way, I'm in Northern Virginia, what about you? Thanks, Tom Petro _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 23:03:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA14603 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 23:03:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA26673; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:07:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA27026 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:07:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA27021 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:07:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.96.178.56] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 10BWME-0004Pb-00; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 23:07:07 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990213040541.006dd5ac@mail.widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@mail.widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 23:05:41 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: The 15th Scottish Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 10:48 PM 2/12/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: THOMAS PETRO > >Hey Ron, > I've been in contact with Sean Foster for the past several weeks! I gave >Sean my measurements and he said I would probably need size 18, and in some >cases a size 15. That's why I'm trying to find sewing patterns, and Glenn >Harlan(?) had told me that he had to basically make his own patterns. So, I'm >up the proverbial creek without a darn paddle. However, like I told Sean, >someone on this list said that they can make patterns from pictures, but I was >thinking about finding a ragged out smaller uniform, pattern 1937, 1940, or >1949-1950 for them to look at. > By the way, I'm in Northern Virginia, what about you? > >Thanks, >Tom Petro > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > Size 18 can be tough, 15 is a good deal easier. There is another option. As was mentioned there are some greek uniforms that may work. If you order from Jerry Lee he has some early greek uniforms. These are perfect 39s with the exception only of a missing button hole on the first aid dressing pocket on the trousers, and an exposed buttonhole on the map pocket. The colour is also wrong, (too green) but these earlier greeks are a perfect match for canadian BD in colour. Another way is to recreate the earlier uniform from 49 pattern blouses. This is what has long been done for the trousers, but I have instructions for making either a 37 or 40 pattern from 3 49s. Much easier, and cheaper. As far as patterns go, I am sure that must be a way to get them. Osprey's book "British Battledress 1937-61" shows cutting out and making up diagrams for '37 pattern. They attribute these to something called Uniforms of the Services. If the original source for these cannot be found, I am sure that a competent tailor could resize them for you. Even easier if an original is used in combination. Not so easy may be the wool. Someone on the list mentioned that the fabric is available. I have often heard this in rumour, and yet when it is attempted no one ever seems to be able to procure it. I think Jerry Lee mentioned something about a source, but for some tremendous amount of it. I live in Williamsburg. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 23:16:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA14649 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 23:16:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA27937; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:20:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA28344 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:20:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA28337 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:20:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.122 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:20:02 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: African Masks-help req Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 23:23:46 -0500 Message-ID: <000701be5708$d3802c60$b314ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" There's a hubcap sitting on the side of the road nearby. Looks like just the thing, but maybe not big enough? Perhaps you have a similar pothole in your area and thus also rich source of durable mask shapes....Other durable alternatives include oval or round plastic party platters from the thrift store, or even new. I have one from the local supermarket which is 20" x 16" and set me back $3 when new. Tape or sew on a few plastic or cardboard features, the tops and bottoms cut from plastic soda liter jugs for eyes and cheeks and start painting. I myself am partial to any scrap plastic. Depending on it's thickness, it cuts cuts easily with scissors, hot knives, all-purpose clippers from Home Depot, or one of those hand-held electric saws where the blade goes up-and-down. Besides the resources listed above, trash can lids, old plastic waste baskets (cut vertially in half and shape to an oval outline). You can use and electric drill, hot nail held in a pair of pliers, or hole punch to make holes in the plastic pieces and sew them together with yarn, colored raffia, strips cut and twisted from plastic newspaper wrappers, or sturdy twine. It beats waiting for the glue to dry, and it's much more durable. Spray paint works great on most scrap plastic, but melts some foams. There is such an array of beuatiful colors in scrap plastic, that I never paint any of my "work," but my son likes to use spray paint, so I've seen the results--ok 95% of the time. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Carol J. Bell Cannon Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 9:35 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: African Masks-help req -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" How about thick styrofoam, sculpted and then painted? Make a few, just in case. :-) Carol ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 12 23:26:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA14694 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 23:26:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA29333; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:30:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA29081 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:30:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA29076 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:30:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from home (pool044-max9.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.231.194]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA10228 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:29:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:35:25 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE56C7.38053AA0.mhull@earthlink.net> From: Hulett To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: The 15th Scottish Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:34:34 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 41 TEXT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hulett I'm in Pasadena California, spitting distance from Alteryears. I noticed the uniform page on the 15th talked about using regular post war patterns then with changes to match photos of uniforms. Also, have you contacted to British Museum? One of the museums in either London or Greenwich should have patterns from this era. It is in my recollection that there is a special company that traditionally makes british uniforms, on Saville Row, I think. Well, I'll follow up on my magazine lead and I also have a few friends in the UK. Seriously though, given the problems we're having, I would try the British Museum. I've known some SCA types who've been able to see armour and embroidery so why not uniforms and patterns? Will return on friday week. Cheers, jd -----Original Message----- From: THOMAS PETRO [SMTP:t.petro@mail1.strayer.edu] Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 7:49 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: The 15th Scottish -Poster: THOMAS PETRO Hey Ron, I've been in contact with Sean Foster for the past several weeks! I gave Sean my measurements and he said I would probably need size 18, and in some cases a size 15. That's why I'm trying to find sewing patterns, and Glenn Harlan(?) had told me that he had to basically make his own patterns. So, I'm up the proverbial creek without a darn paddle. However, like I told Sean, someone on this list said that they can make patterns from pictures, but I was thinking about finding a ragged out smaller uniform, pattern 1937, 1940, or 1949-1950 for them to look at. By the way, I'm in Northern Virginia, what about you? Thanks, Tom Petro _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 02:34:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA16257 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 02:34:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA14992; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 00:39:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA11765 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 00:38:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com (mail1.sirius.com [205.134.253.131]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA11756 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 00:38:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.134.244.81] (ppp-asok02--081.sirius.net [205.134.244.81]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA12632 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 23:38:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902130738.XAA12632@mail1.sirius.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: The 15th Scottish Date: Fri, 12 Feb 99 23:38:38 -0800 x-sender: haggis@pop.sirius.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Pelikan To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Pelikan Another option you may want to pursue for the cloth is to try and make the denim coveralls. They follow the 37/40 patterns, with the exception of there not being a backpocket on the trousers. These were to be worn over the serge battledress for drill, work details, and combat in cold weather. In warmer climes, they were substituted for the wool battledress. If you can get a pattern for the uniform, you might find it cheaper to get the denim fabric, as opposed to serge. The right shade/weight will take careful consideration to match the originals, but should be easier than wool. The denims came in brown, green, and grey. This won't work for a walking-out uniform, of course, but it will work well in the field, and you can save your nice wool uniform for dress parade, walking outs, hitting the pub, etc. Steve Pelikan 6th Battalion, Green Howards, 50th Div., CHS (and formerly of the Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders, 51st Div., CHS) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 03:00:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA16390 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 03:00:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA15965; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 01:05:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA12806 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 01:05:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from aventurine.sge.net (aventurine.sge.net [152.91.14.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA12792 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 01:04:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from titanium.sge.net (firewall-user@titanium.sge.net [152.91.9.2]) by aventurine.sge.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17994 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:04:56 +1100 (EST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by titanium.sge.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA23750 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:04:54 +1100 (EST) Received: from kryptonite.sge.net(10.1.2.11) by titanium.sge.net via smap (3.2) id xma023742; Sat, 13 Feb 99 19:04:52 +1100 Received: from amber. (ice-int2.sge.net [10.1.2.254]) by kryptonite.sge.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA23096 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:04:52 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199902130804.TAA23096@kryptonite.sge.net> From: WICKHAM Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: embroidery patterns Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:00:09 +1100 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: WICKHAM Raymond May I suggest Green duck patterns they have a range that is worth exploring Incorporating Moongate embroidery books Ray _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 07:23:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA23604 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 07:23:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA25444; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 05:28:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA26728 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 05:27:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA26722 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 05:27:31 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 7XCVa07010 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 07:26:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7c07c4b6.36c56f74@aol.com> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 07:26:28 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com In a message dated 99-02-12 18:02:27 EST, you write: << No you won't get shot, I did consider it. Sturbridge Village and Old Fort William use visible machine stitching. >> Colonial Williamsburg also uses machine stitching. Several extant quilted petticoats in their collection are quilted with a backstitch that looks exactly like machine stitching. If you really want a quilted petticoat and don't want to do it yourself, you could check with your local quilt guild for a machine or hand quilter. Sally _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 09:06:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA23956 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 09:06:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA29919; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 07:11:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA01557 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 07:10:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA01551 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 07:10:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.191 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 06:09:50 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 09:08:02 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01be575b$399a3340$b314ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <7c07c4b6.36c56f74@aol.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Thanks, Sally, for the documentation on backstitch at Colonial Williamsburg. This does expand the possibilities .... I've been to Williamsburg twice, but where is the clothing and emboidery museum which holds these items? I'd like to visit them. The guild suggestion is a good one too, and much appreciated. There are people out there who are looking for a cause....and it would create the best product, and be more fun than going it alone! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of SAQUEEN@aol.com Sent: Saturday, February 13, 1999 7:26 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com In a message dated 99-02-12 18:02:27 EST, you write: << No you won't get shot, I did consider it. Sturbridge Village and Old Fort William use visible machine stitching. >> Colonial Williamsburg also uses machine stitching. Several extant quilted petticoats in their collection are quilted with a backstitch that looks exactly like machine stitching. If you really want a quilted petticoat and don't want to do it yourself, you could check with your local quilt guild for a machine or hand quilter. Sally ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 09:27:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA24029 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 09:27:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA02088; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 07:32:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA02613 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 07:31:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhost.cyberramp.net (root@mailhost.cyberramp.net [207.158.64.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA02607 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 07:31:30 -0700 (MST) From: kang@cyberramp.net Received: from hemmert (ftw-tsa6-1.cyberramp.net [207.158.119.65]) by mailhost.cyberramp.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/ler-19990112-0936) with SMTP id IAA15218 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 08:31:30 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36C58BA0.5F34@cyberramp.net> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 08:26:40 -0600 Organization: L.D. Fox Military Antiques X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: OT: Vintage clothing mailing list? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kang@cyberramp.net Sorry for the off-topic posting, but I'm unable to find the information on subbing to the vintage clothing mailing list. I know that there's a certain amount of crossover membership-wise between the vintage list and this one. If someone would please email me off-list with this information, I'll be *extremely* grateful! TIA! Frost kang@cyberramp.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 10:09:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA24169 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:09:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA05669; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 08:15:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA05498 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 08:13:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA05491 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 08:13:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.24 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 07:13:26 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Shinrone Gown and Pregnancy theories Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 09:56:27 -0500 Message-ID: <000c01be5764$1ca3de40$b314ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Take a look at the ink drawing (not the painting, but the earlier study sketch) of the family of Sir Thomas Moore by Hans Holbein the Younger. There are three young women in the picture wearing a wealthier woman's version of the Shinrone gown, and all three appear to me to be pregnant. the sketch dates from the first quarter of the 16th century, which was I believe, within the range of dates for the Shinrone gown. The women are named in the sketch and their ages given. Elizabeth on th efar left, age 21, annd the second and third women in from the right are also in the gown and appear to be in the same condition. It's opposite page 159 in Kybalova, and somewhere I've seen it recently in a two-page spead, in which it is clearer and more of the artists notes arounfd the edge are shown. One woman's skirt is clearly shown and it is not an open robe, but a clsoed skirt like the Shinrone. Feeling a bit guilty that I questioned this theory recently..... Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 10:09:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA24171 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:09:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA05731; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 08:15:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA05524 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 08:14:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA05509 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 08:14:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.24 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 07:13:33 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Elizabethan Gloves Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:17:03 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01be5764$2106ea40$b314ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" In *English Women in Life and Letters,* by M. Phillips and W. S. Tomkinson, Oxford University Press, Humphrey Milford, 1926, there's a full page photograph of the gloves presented to Queen Elezabeth when she visited Oxford Sept 6, 1566, now in the Ashmolean Museum at Oxford. My copy comes from the public library in Bryn Mawr, PA. The gloves are white kid, embroidered with gold, with long narrow tapered fingers. Very lovely in their slender, tapered proportions. There's a border of embroidery around the base of the thumb and all over the 5-6" gauntlet. the gauntlet edge at the top of the glove is fringed, fringe about 1-3/4 inches long. There are three edge-picoted and embroidered tabs which probably connect the open edges of the gauntlet at the back edge of the hand opposite the thumb. And a little bit of embroidery between the gauntlet and the thumb. There is a seam running from the intersection of the first two fingers staight down to the thumb piece. I can send a zerox copy if this is what you need. And I'm sure the Ashmolean museum would send you a color photo for maybe $25, if you asked. This photo shows only the palm side, not the back of the hand. This book is a treasure trove of period writings and engravings. A super resource fore those interested in 1450-1850 England with the emphasis on 17th and 18th Centuries. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 10:41:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA24275 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:41:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA08050; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 08:47:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA07622 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 08:46:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA07615 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 08:46:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip38.an7-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.18.38]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA11495 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 07:46:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C590FA.3950DB45@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:49:34 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Colobium? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson I looked at the image you suggested (by the way, you have to either add 'ml' to the 'ht' at the end of the URL, or take off the last part, go to Early Christian, and select image CD25.html). My guess is that these are deliberately archaicized clothes: that is, they were trying to present Early Christian clothing as they understood it in later centuries. This is bolstered by the description of a colobium which I got from the OED: "A sleeveless or half-sleeved tunic or robe, such as was worn by the clergy of the early church, by the monks, and by kings at the ceremony of coronation. In later ecclesiastical use replaced by the Dalmatic." Early Christian in this context probably means no later than the sixth century. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 12:03:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA24544 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:03:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA15543; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:08:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA14619 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:07:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailnfs0.tiac.net (mailnfs0.tiac.net [199.0.65.17]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA14614 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:07:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from kdp.tiac.net (kdp.tiac.net [206.119.75.41]) by mailnfs0.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8) with SMTP id MAA06749 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:07:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990212133240.2fa76c5a@tiac.net> X-Sender: kdp@tiac.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:32:40 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kristin Page Subject: Re: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 In-Reply-To: <36C4E53C.11FE@bc.sympatico.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kristin Page Folkwear #206 is (or was) a quilted "prairie skirt" that could be used as a petticoat. Last time I looked it was a closeout item but it may still be available. Kristin ____________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 12:21:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA24603 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:21:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA16908; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA15864 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:25:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA15856 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:25:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from vaxxine.com (ppp74.analg-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.212.172]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA11261 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:25:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36C50CD4.F67964D6@vaxxine.com> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 23:25:40 -0600 From: Sheridan Alder X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: thanks for 1850s poor but honest? References: <199902110432.UAA18373@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sheridan Alder Greetings everyone: Thanks so much for all your suggestions and sources. I'm ready to move on to the pattern selection stage - "Gee, do I like this bodice or that one...?" - interminably! Your suggestions have helped me focus before I start cutting and hacking fabric and spending all my spare time looking for thick itchy black wool stockings.(I'm a bit disappointed about the stockings, I'd had my heart set on them!) I think I will go a bit old-fashioned and conservative - it gives me an excuse to go for the pointed bodice, which I'm fond of! I'm still using my prized linsey-woolsey though! - it looks and feels much like a hard, tightly woven but fine wool, and hopefully the linen will relieve the insulating properties of the wool if I ever wear it in the summer. There are several wool day dresses from this period in Canadian museums. I still can't believe it - I'm making a dress to "go with" my house! I suppose people have used flimsier excuses to create costumes. Who doesn't really believe in astrology but is one Libran who agonizes over choising patterns. Sheridan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 12:53:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA24714 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:53:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA20337; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:53:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA17981 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:51:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA17953 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:51:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22332 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 18:51:31 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp181-13.worldonline.nl [195.241.181.13]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA24408 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 18:51:28 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902131751.SAA24408@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Sources for Italian Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:08:06 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Hope wrote: > See Henk's cotehardie WebPages at: > http://pip1.pipcom.com/~tempus/cotehardie/cotehardie.html I have to inform you (and the webpage-owner will back me up on this) that above page is not mine, but Ragnar Torfason's. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 13:10:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24774 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:10:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA23187; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:14:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA19892 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:13:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA19883 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:13:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p46.directcon.net [206.170.184.95]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA18467 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:06:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:06:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902131806.KAA18467@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850's questions Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson > >-Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > >In a message dated 2/12/99 2:06:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, >margo@directcon.net writes: > ><< or my favorite red and black? > >> > >Don't do that cliche....please Oh, you're absolutely right. I didn't even think of it off the top of my head. It's just that red and black is sort of my "default setting". If you told me to wear shorts and a t-shirt to your picnic, it's very likely that I'd show up in black shorts and a red t-shirt. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 13:18:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24805 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:18:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA23934; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:22:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA20772 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:20:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA20763 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:20:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p46.directcon.net [206.170.184.95]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA19606 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:14:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:14:17 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902131814.KAA19606@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: beaded lace for 1850's? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson Okay, here's another question for the flashy madam costume project: Would beaded lace work? I have a LARGE quantity of venise lace, both appliques and bands, that I hand beaded with pearls, crystals and silver rocailles for my wedding dress. the (first) marriage having ended, the dress no longer has sentimental value for me, so I've removed the lace and I'm looking for another project to use it on. Unfortunately, the silver rocailles have tarnished and now look like gray specks, so I'm thinking of dying the lace grey. I don't think a darker color would work becuase plastic pearls usually will only take a pastel shade. Also, the thought of an incredibly flashy and gaudy GREY dress intrigues me! I've seen bead embroidery on a few Worth wedding dresses of the period. Does anyone know, offhand, if it might have been used by someone less than repectable for day wear? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 13:18:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24809 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:18:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA24029; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:22:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA20837 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:21:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA20832 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:21:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.235 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:20:45 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Sources for Italian Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:05:38 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be577e$461db380$eb17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <199902131751.SAA24408@worldonline.nl> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" My mistake! Deepest apologies to Ragnar Torfason! I wonder if its dyslexia or early Altzheimer's on my part. They are great WebPages, in any event! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Henk 't Jong Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 2:08 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Sources for Italian -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Hope wrote: > See Henk's cotehardie WebPages at: > http://pip1.pipcom.com/~tempus/cotehardie/cotehardie.html I have to inform you (and the webpage-owner will back me up on this) that above page is not mine, but Ragnar Torfason's. Henk ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 13:18:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24813 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:18:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA24087; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:23:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA20860 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:21:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA20847 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:21:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.235 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:20:52 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:19:46 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be577e$4b396120$eb17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990212133240.2fa76c5a@tiac.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I'm looking for something which would have been wholecloth quilted on silk or silk satin, circa 1730, Anglo-Irish, ie quilted in England, Ireland, or elsewhere in Europe. Its usually (if I can say that from the few items I've seen) diamond quilted above and with a foot-wide (plus) horizontal border of quilted flowers, feathers, leaves, seashells, or scrollwork at the base, almost matellesse in appearance. The construction is not an issue, I don't think--its generally 3 45" widths or 6 22" widths of silk wide, gathered or pleated and tied, or a drawstring at the waist, and no special shaping. What I really need to develop is the quilting pattern part. Since I am dealing with a specific individual, not a generic class of people, I am hesitant to use a generic pattern that has already seen some use in the costuming world, and "prairie" sounds like the wrong place and time and the wrong social class for this persona. Could someone who has it send me a zerox copy of the picture on the outside of the package, if they still think it might be appropriate? That would be all I would need to add to my collection of sources before attempting to draft a one-of-a-kind design in the spirit of this Anglo-Irish woman in 1730. Her father was a judge in Dublin, Speaker of the Irish House of Lords, and she married a well-known philosopher and Anglican clergyman, later an Anglican Bishop just outside of Cork. Thanks! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Kristin Page Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 8:33 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 -Poster: Kristin Page Folkwear #206 is (or was) a quilted "prairie skirt" that could be used as a petticoat. Last time I looked it was a closeout item but it may still be available. Kristin ____________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 13:27:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24844 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:27:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA25447; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:32:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA21634 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:30:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from arl-img-11.compuserve.com (arl-img-11.compuserve.com [149.174.217.141]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA21606 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:30:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by arl-img-11.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id NAA11894 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:30:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:27:46 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: World War II uniforms To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199902131328_MC2-6A57-B7C3@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id NAA24844 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson Most people seem to use 1949 pattern uniforms which can be bought for about 7 pounds & add the buttons etc if required. I KNOW I've seen a pattern somewhere as I was surprised to see it. If I remember where I WILL let you know ! Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 13:39:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24889 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:39:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA26704; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:44:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA22522 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:43:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA22511 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:42:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA03030 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:42:51 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp189-152.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.152]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01648 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:42:48 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902131842.TAA01648@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Colobium? Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:20:43 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, You wrote: > So now to my question. The caption for the slide mentions a colobium. What > the hell is a colobium? I can find nothing about it in Greek costumes or > Roman costumes. Can someone please help me? I'm also interested in any more > places I could look for southern Italian garb. My encyclopedia says: colobium (from Greek 'kolobos'=shortened, small), dress item from Greek descent, worn by the Romans from 4th c bC to some c's aD by men and women. It has a cilinder form, is sleeveless and is made from an oblong sheet of cloth, folded over the shoulders and sewn close at the sides (and a hole for the head, I suppose, or you could only play blindman's bluff in it). It was worn with or without girdle and could reach the ankles but also be shorter. In early Christian art, Christ was often portrayed in a colodium. Hope this helps, Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 15:50:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA25359 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:50:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA09294; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:54:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA02736 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:52:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA02724 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:52:36 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id BKAGa04297 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:51:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4bda1ee.36c5e5ec@aol.com> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:51:56 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Hope, Colonial Williamburg's costume and textile collection is displayed at the DeWitt Wallace Decorative Arts Gallery one block outside the Historic Area. The collection is massive and stored in several different facilities including the new Bruton Heights Educational Complex about 1 mile away. The Costume Design Center, where the interpreters' reproduction clothing is produced is in the Bruton Heights complex. Wonderful area including the Library, which is open to the public for research. All other areas require appointments for research, study, or touring. We began the research on quilted petticoats in 1990 and studied the ones available in the CW collection. Several were a lightweight silk, similar to china silk today. Others were callimanco, a glazed wool, that looks similar to today's polished cotton. We machine quilted both fabrics with excellent results. Patterns varied greatly, with some obviously mass produced in yardage by professionals and sewn later to fit. Others appeared to be individually quilted as a petticoat. One set is a matching quilted petticoat and fitted jacket (last quarter 18th century). You can call 1-800-History for additional information. The usual disclaimer, I don't work for Colonial Williamsburg anymore -- just protecting my retirement! Sally _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 17:18:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA25674 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 17:18:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA17440; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:23:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA08754 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:21:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from crius.flash.net (echo.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA08727 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:20:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p104.amax32.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.71.104]) by crius.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA28299 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 16:20:58 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36C5F530.2DD0129E@flash.net> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:57:05 -0600 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Subject: H-COST: what is "stuff"? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Charlene Charette In the book "Dress in Mediaeval France" by Joan Evans she frequently uses the word "stuff." In many instances it seems to be a generic word for an identified fiber or fabric: transparent stuff, heavy stuff, broadcaded stuff, etc. In at least two instances it seems to refer to a specific fabric: "The way they wrinkle [stockings] suggests taht they are tailored from stuff, as the stockings of Carmelite nuns are to this day....", "Many of these figures show the characteristic crumpled decoration of the stuff, a kind of ornament that still sruvives in the albs and surplices of the Roman hierarchy and the shirts of some of the Greek islanders." So, what is "stuff"? --Charlene -- The discontent of the people is more dangerous to a monarch than all the might of his enemies on the battlefield. -- Isabella d'Este _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 17:18:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA25673 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 17:18:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA17422; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:23:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA08741 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:21:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from crius.flash.net (crius.flash.net [209.30.0.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA08729 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:20:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p104.amax32.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.71.104]) by crius.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA28342 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 16:21:01 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36C5F5A8.37AA1DC5@flash.net> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:59:05 -0600 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Subject: H-COST: surviving bliaut? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Charlene Charette In "Dress in Mediaeval France" by Joan Evans she states: A bliaut which survives in the Imperial Treasury of Vienna is dated by an inscription woven into its border, which states in Latin and in Arabic that it was woven at Palermo in 1181. Does this garment still exist, assuming it ever did? Are there published pictures of it? --Charlene -- The discontent of the people is more dangerous to a monarch than all the might of his enemies on the battlefield. -- Isabella d'Este _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 17:18:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA25680 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 17:18:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA17446; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:23:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA08756 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:21:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from crius.flash.net (crius.flash.net [209.30.0.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA08739 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:21:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p104.amax32.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.71.104]) by crius.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA28373 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 16:21:04 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36C5F7A4.B84D5E2A@flash.net> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 16:07:33 -0600 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Subject: H-COST: changing clothes before feast Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Charlene Charette A short while ago someone here was asking for any period precent for changing clothes before feast (as done in the SCA). It was pointed out the one of the main reasons SCAers do this is because we don't have servants to do the work and therefore don't wear our good clothes when we need to set up pavilions, etc. Here are two references I stumbled across in Joan Evans' "Dress in Mediaeval France." As this is a secondary source you would need to verify such claims against the primary sources. "Even so, the corset [mantel] remained an outdoor garment: Guillaume de Machuat tells us that it was still the custom to change it for an open surcoat before dining. [Footnote: Remède de Fortune] "Even at feasts dancing was difficult in festal dress; in the romance of Mélusine, written in 1387, after the wedding the ladies retire to take off their 'grandes robes' and put on short dresses." --Charlene -- The discontent of the people is more dangerous to a monarch than all the might of his enemies on the battlefield. -- Isabella d'Este _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 19:34:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA26167 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:34:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA00341; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 17:39:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA18676 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 17:37:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA18668 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 17:37:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.210.50] (ell208.acadia.net [205.217.210.50]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id TAA14379 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:37:01 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:37:14 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: uniforms Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> The Imperial War Museum on the south side would be a much better possibility. Greenwich has only a few uniforms, all of them naval. Many regiments have their own museums, with uniform collections. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 20:45:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26424 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 20:45:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA07247; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 18:51:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA23717 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 18:48:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA23706 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 18:48:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D3DQLM5S; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 20:47:23 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 Message-ID: <19980921.232528.7263.4.kayherb@juno.com> References: <4bda1ee.36c5e5ec@aol.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,7-8,12-17 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 20:47:23 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" Sally, I'd give my eyeteeth to accept your previous invitation for a month at the CW files! And this quilted petticoat thread holds a personal attraction for me, since I gave a good friend a Christmas present of an IOU for a quilted petticoat as soon as she designs it. That was about six years ago. She's still working on the design. I've forwarded these messages to her in hopes that she'll be further inspired before I go blind from age. Can you advise me about the batting? My feeling is that I should use a thin wool or cotton batting, if I can find it here in the depths of "if it ain't polyester we don't have it." (I'm still looking for a local fabric shop that can get past thinking of linen as linen-look.) Thanks for all the input from everyone! Kay Herb kayherb@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 20:45:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26423 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 20:45:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA07230; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 18:51:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA23707 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 18:48:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA23700 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 18:48:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D3DQLM26; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 20:47:23 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: what is "stuff"? Message-ID: <19980921.232528.7263.3.kayherb@juno.com> References: <36C5F530.2DD0129E@flash.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-5,9-11,15-18 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 20:47:23 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" A bit later reference than the period you're researching, but the 1771 Encyclopaedia Brittanica defines "stuff" as: "STUFF, in commerce, a general name for all kinds of fabricks of gold, silver, silk, wool, hair, cotton, or thread, manufactured on the loom, of which a number are velvets, brocades, mohairs, sattins, taffeties, cloths, serges, &c." I was a little surprised myself at this definition, since I've been accustomed to an impression of "stuff" as being mostly woven wools. Guess I shoulda read this before!! I don't know if regionality plays a part in the definition. The EB was published in Scotland. Kay Herb kayherb@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 22:02:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26688 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 22:02:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA15248; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 20:08:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA28602 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 20:05:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA28594 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 20:05:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.77 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:05:19 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 21:52:33 -0500 Message-ID: <000a01be57c7$8fda2820$eb17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <4bda1ee.36c5e5ec@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Thanks for the information, Sally, I'm planning to be down there again this Spring again. Will take a look at all. It's a little difficult to manage a 9-year old boy's fixation on the gun repair shop with his mother's interest in "girl stuff," sh we haven't done this yet. I paid dearly for my 1 hour in the Rockefeller Folk Art Museum 3 4 years ago! Do you think quilted petticoats were worn summer and winter? They do seem to replace the hoops for many women, especially at home and in the morning. What were the layers compsed of? Was it 3? Silk, wool, silk? Silk, wool, linen? or just silk, wool? Any swansdown between silk layers? Wool or cotton batt? Thanks for you good help on this. We want to use the clothes to teach, and even if we end up faking something we cannot re[produce exactly, we need to be able to explain what the original thing was. Thanks! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of SAQUEEN@aol.com Sent: Saturday, February 13, 1999 3:52 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Hope, Colonial Williamburg's costume and textile collection is displayed at the DeWitt Wallace Decorative Arts Gallery one block outside the Historic Area. The collection is massive and stored in several different facilities including the new Bruton Heights Educational Complex about 1 mile away. The Costume Design Center, where the interpreters' reproduction clothing is produced is in the Bruton Heights complex. Wonderful area including the Library, which is open to the public for research. All other areas require appointments for research, study, or touring. We began the research on quilted petticoats in 1990 and studied the ones available in the CW collection. Several were a lightweight silk, similar to china silk today. Others were callimanco, a glazed wool, that looks similar to today's polished cotton. We machine quilted both fabrics with excellent results. Patterns varied greatly, with some obviously mass produced in yardage by professionals and sewn later to fit. Others appeared to be individually quilted as a petticoat. One set is a matching quilted petticoat and fitted jacket (last quarter 18th century). You can call 1-800-History for additional information. The usual disclaimer, I don't work for Colonial Williamsburg anymore -- just protecting my retirement! Sally ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 22:51:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26889 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 22:51:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA20215; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 20:57:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA01358 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 20:54:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA01351 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 20:54:37 -0700 (MST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id NWOGa20321 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 22:54:05 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 22:54:05 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: surviving bliaut? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com Hello. << In "Dress in Mediaeval France" by Joan Evans she states: A bliaut which survives in the Imperial Treasury of Vienna is dated by an inscription woven into its border, which states in Latin and in Arabic that it was woven at Palermo in 1181. << Does this garment still exist, assuming it ever did? Are there published pictures of it? I would suggest that you write directly to the Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna. The head curator is a sweetheart, and I'm sure that she or someone else would answer you questions. The address is as follows. Kunsthistorisches Museum Burgring 5 A-1010 Wien Austria Good luck! Ingvild (Nancy) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 13 22:54:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26902 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 22:54:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA20489; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 20:59:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA01489 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 20:56:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA01484 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 20:56:47 -0700 (MST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id OOUOa01428 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 22:55:47 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <598970c3.36c64943@aol.com> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 22:55:47 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: what is "stuff"? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com << So, what is "stuff"? >> "Stuff" is any fabric or material, as far as I am aware. Nancy (Ingvild) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 14 00:47:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA28009 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 00:47:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA00324; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 22:52:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA08552 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 22:49:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA08546 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 22:49:22 -0700 (MST) From: Finafyr@aol.com Received: from Finafyr@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id WXOEa20088 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 00:48:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 00:48:42 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: can someone identify a dress style for me please? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Finafyr@aol.com The pink dress look like a houpelande to me. Fionnbharr _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 14 07:33:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA03637 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 07:33:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA24723; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 05:38:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA25529 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 05:34:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from morgoth.tuug.org (root@morgoth.tuug.org [130.232.72.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA25523 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 05:34:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from shodan.yok.utu.fi ([130.232.128.27] HELO shodan ident: NO-IDENT-SERVICE [port 25092]) by tuug.org with SMTP id <40816-27544>; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:34:53 +0200 From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" Organization: Lyninine Federation To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:35:28 +2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: H-COST: gap in pre-19th corsets Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990214123453Z40816-27544+5@tuug.org> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" Was there usually a gap in pre-19th century corsets when they were laced properly? I have thought there weren't, as the corsets were probably almost always custom made then, but some people have claimed the lacing gap is essential for the comfortable wear and has been around since very early corsets. TIA, -- -------(c) 1999--------------* lynoure@tuug.org * Ella Lynoure Rajamaki--------* http://www.tuug.org/~lynoure * _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 14 08:33:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA03827 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 08:33:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA27048; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 06:37:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA27769 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 06:34:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.niagara.com (mail.niagara.com [209.5.56.12]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA27759 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 06:34:44 -0700 (MST) From: kathleen@niagara.com Received: from kathleen.niagara.com (isdn-84.niagara.com [209.5.58.84]) by mail.niagara.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA24353 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 08:34:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 08:34:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902141334.IAA24353@mail.niagara.com> X-Sender: kathleen@mail.niagara.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kathleen@niagara.com > >Can you advise me about the batting? My feeling is that I should use a >thin wool or cotton batting, if I can find it here in the depths of "if >it ain't polyester we don't have it." (I'm still looking for a local >fabric shop that can get past thinking of linen as linen-look.) Walmart carries a lovely thin cotton batting. Kathleen (Catriona) () _/)(\_ "Tehee!" quod she, and clapte the wyndow to /~~\ /____\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 14 08:33:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA03831 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 08:33:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA27059; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 06:37:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA27780 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 06:34:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.niagara.com (mail.niagara.com [209.5.56.12]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA27768 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 06:34:47 -0700 (MST) From: kathleen@niagara.com Received: from kathleen.niagara.com (isdn-84.niagara.com [209.5.58.84]) by mail.niagara.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA24357 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 08:34:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 08:34:51 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902141334.IAA24357@mail.niagara.com> X-Sender: kathleen@mail.niagara.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: African Masks-help req Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kathleen@niagara.com >>Does anyone know where I could purchase a base for an African Mask to be used >>in a play? >The real ones are carved out of wood. One of our local funky-import shops has real wooden elongated African masks for decorating your house. My boyfriend picked one up on sale for $10. It might be worth calling around. Kathleen (Catriona) () _/)(\_ "Tehee!" quod she, and clapte the wyndow to /~~\ /____\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 14 11:39:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04473 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:39:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA10180; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 09:44:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA07750 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 09:41:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA07739 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 09:41:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D3FBPXJ6; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:40:29 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 Message-ID: <19980922.015249.5351.2.kayherb@juno.com> References: <199902141334.IAA24353@mail.niagara.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-34 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 11:40:29 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" Walmart? We gots Walmart!! Thanks!! Kay On Sun, 14 Feb 1999 08:34:48 -0500 (EST) kathleen@niagara.com writes: > >-Poster: kathleen@niagara.com > > >> >>Can you advise me about the batting? My feeling is that I should use >a >>thin wool or cotton batting, if I can find it here in the depths of >"if >>it ain't polyester we don't have it." (I'm still looking for a local >>fabric shop that can get past thinking of linen as linen-look.) > >Walmart carries a lovely thin cotton batting. > >Kathleen (Catriona) > > > () > _/)(\_ >"Tehee!" quod she, and clapte the wyndow to /~~\ > /____\ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 14 16:43:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05706 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:43:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA06884; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:48:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01777 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:44:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from boomer.brightok.net (boomer.brightok.net [206.30.97.13]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA01770 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:44:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.brightok.net (sulphur4p169.cld.brightok.net [206.30.100.169]) by boomer.brightok.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA08365 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:44:13 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36C744DE.86A0BD55@mail.brightok.net> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:49:18 -0600 From: The Mulders X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Movie Business References: <199902141334.IAA24353@mail.niagara.com> <19980922.015249.5351.2.kayherb@juno.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------0429B2CD356903A1CC3090C9" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Mulders --------------0429B2CD356903A1CC3090C9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'm about to embark on a new course. I've been asked to costume for a movie. Please if anyone has done this and can tell me what to expect, email me at mulder@brightok.net! I have until the end of March to get ready and informed. I have a background in theater and living history events. I will have no problem making or designing. I'm worried about the money. Who pays for the materials and notions and how many sewers are needed and who goes to Hollywood to rent costumes from the warehouses and how is that done? I don't even know what to ask for in salary!!! I want to know before they come to me with a contract. Thanks, Ninya --------------0429B2CD356903A1CC3090C9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi,
I'm about to embark on a new course.  I've been asked to costume for a movie.  Please if anyone has done this and can tell me what to expect, email me at mulder@brightok.net!  I have until the end of March to get ready and informed.  I have a background in theater and living history events.  I will have no problem making or designing.  I'm worried about the money.  Who pays for the materials and notions and how many sewers are needed and who goes to Hollywood to rent costumes from the warehouses and how is that done?  I don't even know what to ask for in salary!!!  I want to know before they come to me with a contract.
Thanks, Ninya --------------0429B2CD356903A1CC3090C9-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 14 19:01:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA06293 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:01:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA23788; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:06:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA12749 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:02:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA12741 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:02:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.56] (ell72.acadia.net [205.217.218.56]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id TAA25603 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:02:59 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:03:11 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: "stuff" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <<"Stuff" is any fabric or material, as far as I am aware.>> Once again, a reminder that vocabulary changes greatly over time. In the 18c, "stuff" referred mostly to worsted fabrics. In a later period, it came to mean any fabric, in slang usage. Check the OED for the meaning specific to the period for which you have a reference. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 14 19:01:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA06294 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:01:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA23734; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:06:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA12716 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:02:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA12709 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:02:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.56] (ell72.acadia.net [205.217.218.56]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id TAA25559 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:02:50 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:03:02 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: cotton batting Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Textile Reproductions, in West Chesterfield MA, used to carry (may still) some really nice thin cotton batting that would be suitable. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 14 20:33:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA06676 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:33:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA02720; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:38:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA19414 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:34:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA19406 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:34:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from blkhrse (ip3.pdx4.pacifier.com [216.65.146.3]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA11534 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:34:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902150134.RAA11534@smtp.pacifier.com> From: "Jill and Ralph Mason" To: Subject: H-COST: Italian corsets Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 17:22:12 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Jill and Ralph Mason" Many people have told me that renaissance Italian women's clothing was worn with a corset underneath. I haven't been able to find documentation or examples of Italian corsetry. I did find one web page that contained a pattern for a corset but the author stressed that she did not use corsets. So whatta think? To corset or not to corset that is the question. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 14 21:41:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06909 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:41:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA10908; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:46:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA24480 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:42:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.wireweb.net (mail.wireweb.net [207.71.23.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA24461 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:42:23 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail.wireweb.net from localhost (router,SLMail V3.1); Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:42:40 -0600 Received: by mail.wireweb.net from system (207.235.90.40::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.1); Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:42:39 -0600 Message-ID: <36C78A4C.6FB7@wireweb.net> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:45:32 -0600 From: "Cynthia Bucheger" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: 16th C stomachers References: <281FFB60FE3@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Cynthia Bucheger" I need some help. I am trying to document a stomacher that I have made for an Elizabethan gown. When I go to the sources I have(Kohler, Norris, Davenport) I find very little about the stomachers. They are mentioned in such a casual way, if mentioned at all, as if to say, 'oh those common things, you know all about them, we don't have to tell you anything else.' What sources should I be looking into? Also, any ideas on how to document the types of embroidery that may have been used on the stomachers? Any help is greatly appreciated. Cyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 14 22:30:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA07077 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:30:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA15192; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:32:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA27265 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:28:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from value.net (root@value.net [204.188.125.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA27260 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:28:29 -0700 (MST) From: koz@value.net Received: from kavvieP (op227.value.net [209.182.130.227]) by value.net (8.8.7/8.7.4) with SMTP id TAA00334 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:28:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902150328.TAA00334@value.net> To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:30:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: H-COST: movie [Molly Maguires] Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01c) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: koz@value.net Has anybody seen this movie? I have a friend doing a paper on this movie and one of the questions is about the authenticity of their costuming....[it's supposed to be about late 19th century, Irish miner's in PA starting a psudo-union] Any help would be appreciated.. Michael _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 14 23:28:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA07359 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:28:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA24309; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:34:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA02828 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:30:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA02821 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:30:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from kiwiopen (pa-ppp13.hevanet.com [204.119.60.98]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA10282 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:30:35 -0800 (PST) From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Italian corsets Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:25:00 -0800 Message-ID: <01be589b$2697a480$623c77cc@kiwiopen> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Wanda Pease" I think you can't get those smooth lines shown in the portraits without some type of corseting. Of course if you are thinking of the Bronzino's as Italian Ren, we have the example in Janet Arnold of Eleonora of Toledo's "pair of bodies. It probably depends on exactly which type of Italian Ren you're talking about, from when, and from which city-state. Regina (Hi Jill and Ralph!) -----Original Message----- From: Jill and Ralph Mason To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 5:35 PM Subject: H-COST: Italian corsets > >-Poster: "Jill and Ralph Mason" > >Many people have told me that renaissance Italian women's clothing was worn >with a corset underneath. I haven't been able to find documentation or >examples of Italian corsetry. I did find one web page that contained a >pattern for a corset but the author stressed that she did not use corsets. > >So whatta think? To corset or not to corset that is the question. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 14 23:34:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA07388 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:34:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA25231; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:39:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA03291 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:35:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from aventurine.sge.net (aventurine.sge.net [152.91.14.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA03286 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:35:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from titanium.sge.net (firewall-user@titanium.sge.net [152.91.9.2]) by aventurine.sge.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26874 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:35:41 +1100 (EST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by titanium.sge.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA20543 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:35:39 +1100 (EST) Received: from kryptonite.sge.net(10.1.2.11) by titanium.sge.net via smap (3.2) id xma020394; Mon, 15 Feb 99 15:35:14 +1100 Received: from amber. (ice-int2.sge.net [10.1.2.254]) by kryptonite.sge.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA05898 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:35:13 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199902150435.PAA05898@kryptonite.sge.net> From: WICKHAM Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: World War II uniforms Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:18:29 +1100 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: WICKHAM Raymond Probably it just me BUT Why not approach the War museum in London?? If their costumer can't help you they probably have the best first hand ideas of supply Ray _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 14 23:46:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA07453 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:46:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA26714; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:51:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA04404 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:48:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA04399 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:48:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from unknown (vcn3.pm3-3.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.240.122]) by sight.vcn.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 61F49F51FC; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:48:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <36C78A4C.6FB7@wireweb.net> References: Conversation <281FFB60FE3@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> with last message <36C78A4C.6FB7@wireweb.net> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Subject: Re: H-COST: 16th C stomachers Date: Sun, 14 Feb 99 22:50:46 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id XAA07453 Status: O -Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Beating Digby's drum again, he shows several surviving stomachers in his "Elizabethan Embroidery"..... Good Luck! Liadain > -Poster: "Cynthia Bucheger" > > I need some help. I am trying to document a stomacher that I have made > for an Elizabethan gown. When I go to the sources I have(Kohler, > Norris, Davenport) I find very little about the stomachers. They are > mentioned in such a casual way, if mentioned at all, as if to say, 'oh > those common things, you know all about them, we don't have to tell you > anything else.' > > What sources should I be looking into? Also, any ideas on how to > document the types of embroidery that may have been used on the > stomachers? > > Any help is greatly appreciated. > Cyn > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 14 23:59:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA07517 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:59:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA28219; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:04:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA05290 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:00:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from mw2.texas.net (mw2.texas.net [206.127.30.12]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA05282 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:00:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from texas.net (mnet06-71.austin.texas.net [207.207.3.239]) by mw2.texas.net (2.4/2.4) with ESMTP id XAA27254 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:00:37 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36C7A959.64D6CD87@texas.net> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:58:01 -0600 From: Christina X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 References: <4bda1ee.36c5e5ec@aol.com> <19980921.232528.7263.4.kayherb@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christina > Can you advise me about the batting? My feeling is that I should use a > thin wool or cotton batting, if I can find it here in the depths of "if > it ain't polyester we don't have it." (I'm still looking for a local > fabric shop that can get past thinking of linen as linen-look.) Use unbleached cotton batting!!!! Mail-order it or whatever you have to do... You are talking heirloom quality work, and that means using materials that will survive. Seriously, I spent a very short while working with a museum doing preservation work on a quilt collection, and several years preserving my great-grandmother's. It kills me to see people who quilt with materials that won't last 50 years. I know this is a quilted petticoat to wear, but if you do it right her great grandchildren may still have it. ;> On a historical note, the 3 quilts I have had my hot little hands on from the 1700's have had cotton batting. Not a scientific sample, but that's what I've seen. -Magdalena _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 00:03:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA07539 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:03:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA28741; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:09:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA05702 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:05:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.bctel.ca (nfs1.bctel.ca [207.194.28.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA05694 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:05:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (kmlp01m02-124.bctel.ca [207.102.34.124]) by mail1.bctel.ca with SMTP id VAA10334 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:05:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36C7AC3F.58ED@bc.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:10:23 -0800 From: Gena Crowston X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-SYMPA (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 References: <36C4E53C.11FE@bc.sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gena Crowston Okay, I'm going to try this again, because it seems that it didn't get through the first time.... Katrynka/Glenda ===== Gena Crowston wrote: > > > - -Poster: Appin1@aol.com > > > > Folkwear used to make a quilted petticoat pattern, which I have. I don't know > > if they still make it though. > > > > Kathleen Norvell > > You know, I may *just* have this pattern sitting in my pattern cabinet > at home (and, of course, I'm not there now). I will check when I get > home and get back to you in about a week or so (I don't have access to a > computer at home - have to use mom's). If memory serves, it *is* a > Folkwear pattern. My mom got it for me from my aunt when she closed > down her costume shop and thought it would be useful for me and my > costuming pursuits. > > Let you know soon, > > Katrynka Chornovoloskaya > (mka - Glenda Hohmann) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 05:31:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA16108 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 05:31:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA28626; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 03:35:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA17691 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 03:31:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailgate.caci.co.uk (mailgate.caci.co.uk [195.173.80.20]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA17541 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 03:31:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from caci_ntas1.caci.co.uk (caci_ntas1.caci.co.uk [194.70.42.18]) by mailgate.caci.co.uk (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17492 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:28:34 GMT Received: by caci_ntas1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:29:08 -0000 Message-ID: From: Christina Nevin To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Query Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:29:07 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christina Nevin Saluti, I'm quite keen on organising a corset making day for my Shire, and doing a bulk buy of the plastic whalebone with Yoshiwara (who has kindly offered to organise it). But I have a couple of queries: 1. None of us are expert sewers, but we want to be as accurate as possible with our C.16th corsets. What is the best pattern for us to use (I have the Alter Years catalogue, but will consider other stuff)? 2. I'd like some opinions from people who specialise in C.16th corsets - is the plastic whalebone heavy enough? Any other things I should be aware of/wary of? You can post me off-list if this topic has done the rounds too much. MTIA, Cordialmente, Lucretzia ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Lady Lucrezia-Isabella di Freccia | mka Tina Nevin Thamesreach Shire, The Isles, Drachenwald | London, UK thorngrove@geocities.com | http://www.geocities.com/~thorngrove "There is no doubt that great leaders prefer hard drinkers to good versifiers" - Aretino, 1536 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 06:11:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA16238 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 06:11:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA02256; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 04:17:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA21418 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 04:13:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA21409 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 04:13:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from bright.net (find2-cs-9.dial.bright.net [209.143.26.27]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with ESMTP id GAA12955 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 06:13:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36C829F5.19610BA4@bright.net> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 06:06:45 -0800 From: lena meyer Organization: Premier Designs X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; U; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Movie Business References: <199902141334.IAA24353@mail.niagara.com> <19980922.015249.5351.2.kayherb@juno.com> <36C744DE.86A0BD55@mail.brightok.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: lena meyer I'm not familar with this process, but would be interested in finding out how its done in the movie business, can you share this info with the list? Lena _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 09:55:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA17028 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:55:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA26127; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:03:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA03343 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:58:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA03318 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 07:58:45 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id CCAFa20091 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:55:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <265ad08e.36c8356e@aol.com> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:55:42 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: more corset stuff Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Susannah: Thanks for that post. I am always interested to hear what you have to say. And while conjecture is all most of us can manage on most subjects, real experience is always an eye-opener. Who would have guessed the part about heartburn and Coke? I've always wondered about 1820s-30s corsets. They look pretty comfortable to me -- so comfortable that I've thought about trying the style, although I have nowhere to wear it. It sounds as if we have similar body types, though I am not quite as small as you! I wonder what garments people with other body types find comfortable, that we do not? That reminds me, somewhat tangentially, of the film "Dangerous Liasons." When Uma Thurmond came on screen, it was painfully clear that 18th-century clothing wasn't designed for today's supermodels. It's too bad that so much of today's fashions, especially couture, are designed for practically non-human bodies. Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 10:32:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA17165 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:32:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA00933; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:36:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA07166 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:32:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from boomer.brightok.net (boomer.brightok.net [206.30.97.13]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA07151 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:32:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.brightok.net (sulphur4p159.cld.brightok.net [206.30.100.159]) by boomer.brightok.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA20917 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:31:41 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36C83F13.9AA1EB9E@mail.brightok.net> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:36:51 -0600 From: The Mulders X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Movie Business References: <199902141334.IAA24353@mail.niagara.com> <19980922.015249.5351.2.kayherb@juno.com> <36C744DE.86A0BD55@mail.brightok.net> <36C829F5.19610BA4@bright.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Mulders Lena, I have tried to email you and it comes back undeliverable. Please email me directly as I would like to know if you are near me. Thanks, Ninya lena meyer wrote: > -Poster: lena meyer > > I'm not familar with this process, but would be interested in finding > out how its done in the movie business, can you share this info with the > list? > > Lena > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 11:05:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19118 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:05:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA06547; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:13:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA13062 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:09:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from cerberus.infoengine.com (firewall-user@cerberus.infoengine.com [207.74.190.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id JAA13052 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:09:21 -0700 (MST) Received: by cerberus.infoengine.com; id LAA06981; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:06:05 -0500 Received: from wasabi.infoengine.com(10.1.0.41) by cerberus.infoengine.com via smap (4.1) id xma006972; Mon, 15 Feb 99 11:05:05 -0500 Received: from [10.1.0.64] by wasabi.infoengine.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA40C4 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:59:29 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: gwalli@mail.infoengine.com Message-Id: Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:02:14 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Gaylin Walli" Subject: H-COST: making japanese pants Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gaylin Walli" Greetings, I am in the process of finishing up a pattern from J. Marshall's "Make Your Own Japanese Clothes" and I was wondering if anyone could help me out with a few questions. (1) The "mompe" described in the book appear to me to be virtually identical to the pants illustrated in several Japanese manuscripts. However.....the pants illustrated are for men, not women as described in Marshall's book. Am I missing something critical here that differentiates the two or are they truly the same? Is there a name for any men's pants, medieval or otherwise, that I can use instead of the "mompe" word described by Marshall? (2) The pattern in Marshall's book suggests either a gather at the waist and at the leg ends or a pleating. The illustrations I have from manuscripts show pleating, but are shown only from the front. Is it reasonable to assume that there would be pleating in the back of the pants as well? It's hard for my undereducated eye to imagine the pants without pleating on the back and the front. (Note: The front and back don't meet at the waist. The side seams stop about 6-8" below the waist on the pattern I made, with the pants being fastened by ties.) (3) How might I best reinforce the knees without being too obvious about it if I were to make a pair on these pants for use in SCA combat? After polling many a fighter, the most prevalent complaint after "the crotch is too small" that I hear concerns the knees "blowing out" after a short period of wear (presumably because of rubbing from metal or plastic armor parts and repeated falling on the knees). I wish to reinforce the knees without making it too obvious. Any help appreciated. Hints and tips always welcomed, assuming you can gear them to a junior intermediate sewer with a basic plain vanilla Sears sewing machine. :) Gaylin, gaylin@infoengine.com Jasmine, jasmine@infoengine.com PS: Book information.... Marshall, J. (1988). Make your own Japanese clothes: Patterns and ideas for modern wear. Publ: Kodansha America Inc. ISBN: 087011865X Approx cost as of 1998: ~$20.00 (US) Very easy to follow patterns, especially for a novice drafter like me. All ideas were extrememly easy to adapt to any person, regardless of their shape or size (useful for the Reubenesque figure of mine or the 6'5" frame of my husband). Short, in terms of pages. I would have liked to have seen more items of clothing. I wish more pattern books on varying time periods worked this way. Perhaps they do and I've just not found them. Something easier to leave open on the sewing table would have been nice; the perfect-bound spine is now well and truly cracked on my copy from weighting it down to keep it open. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 12:13:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA23816 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:13:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA17548; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:16:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA22982 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:12:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA22957 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:12:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p32.directcon.net [206.170.184.81]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA11488 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:06:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:06:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902151706.JAA11488@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: Teaching costume workshops? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson I'm considering writing up proposals to teach workshops in "making your Ren Faire costume" and/or "Making your Wagon Train Costume" (for an 1850's event held locally) through our Parks and Rec department. I've talked to the staffs at local fabric stores, most of whom think there is enough interest to justify the projects. Has anyone done this kind of workshop? If so, I'd appreciate any input you have. Thanks! Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 12:22:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA23856 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:22:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA19698; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:30:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA25274 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:26:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from boomer.brightok.net (boomer.brightok.net [206.30.97.13]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA25267 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:26:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.brightok.net (sulphur3p153.cld.brightok.net [206.30.100.153]) by boomer.brightok.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA07448 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:26:16 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36C859EE.D26ED1FA@mail.brightok.net> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:31:27 -0600 From: The Mulders X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Teaching costume workshops? References: <199902151706.JAA11488@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Mulders I have taught many different aspects of historical clothing workshops. My best advice is KISS, keep it so simple! Show a lot of samples, have lots of hand outs and expect to get behind. The best workshops I have found are half talk and half hands on. Good luck! Ninya Margo Anderson wrote: > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > I'm considering writing up proposals to teach workshops in "making your Ren > Faire costume" and/or "Making your Wagon Train Costume" (for an 1850's > event held locally) through our Parks and Rec department. I've talked to > the staffs at local fabric stores, most of whom think there is enough > interest to justify the projects. > > Has anyone done this kind of workshop? If so, I'd appreciate any input you > have. Thanks! > > Margo Anderson > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 13:33:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15614 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:33:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA01781; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:42:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA07885 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:37:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA07823 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:37:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA11769 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:37:34 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp189-130.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.130]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA29254 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:37:31 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902151837.TAA29254@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: what is "stuff"? Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:13:49 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, The EB says: > "STUFF, in commerce, a general name for all kinds of fabricks of gold, > silver, silk, wool, hair, cotton, or thread, manufactured on the loom, of > which a number are velvets, brocades, mohairs, sattins, taffeties, > cloths, serges, &c." > > I was a little surprised myself at this definition, since I've been > accustomed to an impression of "stuff" as being mostly woven wools. > Guess I shoulda read this before!! I don't know if regionality plays a > part in the definition. The EB was published in Scotland. Funny thing; 'stof' (which is pronounced almost the same as 'stuff') is the Dutch word for 'cloth' of all kinds too. Scottish has a lot of Dutch-like words (like 'kirk' = 'kerk' in Dutch = church, etc). The Scots and the Friesians (western and northern Dutch) have been trade- and fishing partners since the 7th c, so that's probably why. It also means 'dust', but that has nothing to do with any of this. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 13:34:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15618 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:33:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA01915; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:42:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA07958 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:38:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA07922 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:37:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA11782 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:37:36 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp189-130.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.130]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA29272 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:37:33 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902151837.TAA29272@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: surviving bliaut? Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:22:56 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Nancy wrote: > I would suggest that you write directly to the Kunsthistorisches Museum in > Vienna. The head curator is a sweetheart, and I'm sure that she or someone > else would answer you questions. The address is as follows. > > Kunsthistorisches Museum > Burgring 5 > A-1010 Wien > Austria > > Good luck! > Ingvild (Nancy) Will you keep us posted? It's a very curious statement; lettering in a bliaut. It looks suspiciously like the Kufic inscription in the border of the silk crowning mantle of Roger II of Sicily (dated 1133), which is kept in.... The Kunsthistorisches Museum in Wien. Has somebody made a mistake? Henk (who is not impressed with Joan Evans' work; alright for her time, but in most parts overtaken by recent research) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 13:34:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15625 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:34:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA01729; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:41:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA07815 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:37:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from crius.flash.net (echo.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA07781 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:37:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p70.amax47.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.106.70]) by crius.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00045 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:36:53 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36C86940.1563557C@flash.net> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:36:48 -0600 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: what is "stuff"? References: <598970c3.36c64943@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Charlene Charette SNSpies@aol.com wrote: > << So, what is "stuff"? >> > > "Stuff" is any fabric or material, as far as I am aware. > > Nancy (Ingvild) That was my first thought, but she seems to use the word with various meanings. --Charlene -- The discontent of the people is more dangerous to a monarch than all the might of his enemies on the battlefield. -- Isabella d'Este _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 13:34:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15632 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:34:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA02156; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:43:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA08258 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:38:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from crius.flash.net (crius.flash.net [209.30.0.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA08233 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:38:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p70.amax47.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.106.70]) by crius.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01367 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:38:51 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36C869B6.4420DDB6@flash.net> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:38:46 -0600 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: "stuff" References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Charlene Charette Deborah Pulliam wrote: > <<"Stuff" is any fabric or material, as far as I am aware.>> > > Once again, a reminder that vocabulary changes greatly over time. > > In the 18c, "stuff" referred mostly to worsted fabrics. In a later period, > it came to mean any fabric, in slang usage. > > Check the OED for the meaning specific to the period for which you have a > reference. The book was published in 1952 so I'm not sure which meaning she would be using although I suspect the 1952 usage. My "when I win the lottery" want is the OED on CD. Last time I checked it was about $300. Thanks, --Charlene -- The discontent of the people is more dangerous to a monarch than all the might of his enemies on the battlefield. -- Isabella d'Este _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 15:07:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16012 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:07:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA18099; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:15:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA27372 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:11:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA27359 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:10:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from [194.222.199.37] (helo=montgomerie.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10CULz-0004mI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:10:52 +0000 Message-ID: <265vrAAu6Hy2Iwc$@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:08:14 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: The 15th Scottish In-Reply-To: <01BE56C7.38053AA0.mhull@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jean Waddie In message <01BE56C7.38053AA0.mhull@earthlink.net>, Hulett writes > >-Poster: Hulett > >I'm in Pasadena California, spitting distance from Alteryears. I noticed >the uniform page on the 15th talked about using regular post war patterns >then with changes to match photos of uniforms. Also, have you contacted to >British Museum? One of the museums in either London or Greenwich should >have patterns from this era. It is in my recollection that there is a >special company that traditionally makes british uniforms, on Saville Row, >I think. Well, I'll follow up on my magazine lead and I also have a few >friends in the UK. Seriously though, given the problems we're having, I >would try the British Museum. You probably want the Imperial War Museum, rather than the Brit Mus. >I've known some SCA types who've been able to >see armour and embroidery so why not uniforms and patterns? >Will return on friday week. >Cheers, jd > -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 15:15:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16048 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:15:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA20330; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:23:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA28704 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:19:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA28678 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:19:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from [194.222.199.37] (helo=montgomerie.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10CUUD-0007B2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:19:22 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:13:26 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: 15th-16th Century man's hat In-Reply-To: <000201be5607$5c79d280$841fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jean Waddie In message <000201be5607$5c79d280$841fffd0@default>, "Hope H. Dunlap" writes > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >How do you form the man's hat shown in rust-color in the >upper left? The big brioche-shaped velvet? one? >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_e/sebastia.jpg >Some of the more shapely 18th century men's big floppy >nightcaps look like this, as well as little girls' hats in >the Edwardian era. > >Hope H. Dunlap > I believe it's just an exceptionally large bag gathered into a band. To make it stand up you can make a cushion that goes inside it - and then you can also have a floppy hat and a comfy seat! -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 15:39:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16165 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:39:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA24276; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:46:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA02385 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:42:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA02364 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:42:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.125 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:41:44 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: making japanese pants Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:13:32 -0500 Message-ID: <001701be5924$50582040$eb17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" It is my understanding that in recent times, like the last couple hundred years, mompe were field worker pants, if anything primarily a women's garment, but could be worn by laborers of both sexes. The Japanese figure is very slender. Any well-endowed Westerner with hips and a backside is going to have to change the pattern to fit properly. This means pleats in the back, a high round shape at the back waistline seam cut, and a big diamond shaped gusset in the crotch to get the wearing ease you need. Also, I feel that Marshall cuts his too short and too narrow at the knee to get the necessary wearing ease for a Western woman. He is making them guys, and for fashion, I think, not active use. They are basically "plus-fours," and these are *almost* as long as regular pants until you cinch them up to the calf to wear. The other take on Marshall is that he's gien us the traditional cut for mompe, as pictures of field workers often showed the knee cinch straps untied for use, and I think it was more than just carelessness. I think they were untied for kneeling and squatting in the fields. A manly alternative is to cut the significantly knee wider than Marshall shows, eliminate the cinch strap at the knee, and hem the pants at the top of the calf. Go ahead and leave the slit opening for the knee if you like the look as it will give estra room for movement. Regarding the knees, and thighs, and even the seat, reinforce them with layers of additonal fabric and quilt them into place. I've seen fighting kimono with heavily reinforced and quilted necklines shoulders, and this provided cushioning for the body as well as protection from sword blows. It is also elegant and lovely! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Gaylin Walli Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 11:02 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: making japanese pants -Poster: "Gaylin Walli" Greetings, I am in the process of finishing up a pattern from J. Marshall's "Make Your Own Japanese Clothes" and I was wondering if anyone could help me out with a few questions. (1) The "mompe" described in the book appear to me to be virtually identical to the pants illustrated in several Japanese manuscripts. However.....the pants illustrated are for men, not women as described in Marshall's book. Am I missing something critical here that differentiates the two or are they truly the same? Is there a name for any men's pants, medieval or otherwise, that I can use instead of the "mompe" word described by Marshall? (2) The pattern in Marshall's book suggests either a gather at the waist and at the leg ends or a pleating. The illustrations I have from manuscripts show pleating, but are shown only from the front. Is it reasonable to assume that there would be pleating in the back of the pants as well? It's hard for my undereducated eye to imagine the pants without pleating on the back and the front. (Note: The front and back don't meet at the waist. The side seams stop about 6-8" below the waist on the pattern I made, with the pants being fastened by ties.) (3) How might I best reinforce the knees without being too obvious about it if I were to make a pair on these pants for use in SCA combat? After polling many a fighter, the most prevalent complaint after "the crotch is too small" that I hear concerns the knees "blowing out" after a short period of wear (presumably because of rubbing from metal or plastic armor parts and repeated falling on the knees). I wish to reinforce the knees without making it too obvious. Any help appreciated. Hints and tips always welcomed, assuming you can gear them to a junior intermediate sewer with a basic plain vanilla Sears sewing machine. :) Gaylin, gaylin@infoengine.com Jasmine, jasmine@infoengine.com PS: Book information.... Marshall, J. (1988). Make your own Japanese clothes: Patterns and ideas for modern wear. Publ: Kodansha America Inc. ISBN: 087011865X Approx cost as of 1998: ~$20.00 (US) Very easy to follow patterns, especially for a novice drafter like me. All ideas were extrememly easy to adapt to any person, regardless of their shape or size (useful for the Reubenesque figure of mine or the 6'5" frame of my husband). Short, in terms of pages. I would have liked to have seen more items of clothing. I wish more pattern books on varying time periods worked this way. Perhaps they do and I've just not found them. Something easier to leave open on the sewing table would have been nice; the perfect-bound spine is now well and truly cracked on my copy from weighting it down to keep it open. ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 15:59:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA19366 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:59:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA27455; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:07:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA05110 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:03:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA05102 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:03:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from unknown (vcn13.pm3-1.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.240.32]) by sight.vcn.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 526E0F518D; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:02:55 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990212184859.007b0370@onramp.i2k.com> References: Conversation <3.0.5.32.19990212184859.007b0370@onramp.i2k.com> with last message <3.0.5.32.19990212184859.007b0370@onramp.i2k.com> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Subject: H-COST: quick odd question Date: Mon, 15 Feb 99 15:06:05 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id PAA19366 Status: O -Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Greetings! This is slightly off topic - forgive me! - but a question that came up last night while perusing "Patterns of Fashion" with a young newcomer - We get quite a bit of information from burial clothing - Eleanora of Toledo's gown, etc. Since these garments are now in museums, etc, were the remains reclothed somehow before reinterment? (assuming they were reinterred...) Inquiring young minds (and now an old one!) want to know...... All Health! Liadain _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 16:06:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA21154 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:06:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA28896; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:15:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA06176 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:11:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA06165 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:11:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.125 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:10:33 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: 15th-16th Century man's hat Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:57:37 -0500 Message-ID: <001901be5928$57a13860$eb17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Thanks, Jean. Are you kidding about the seat, or was this actually done? It is an appealing concept! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Jean Waddie Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 3:13 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 15th-16th Century man's hat -Poster: Jean Waddie In message <000201be5607$5c79d280$841fffd0@default>, "Hope H. Dunlap" writes > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >How do you form the man's hat shown in rust-color in the >upper left? The big brioche-shaped velvet? one? >http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_e/sebastia.jpg >Some of the more shapely 18th century men's big floppy >nightcaps look like this, as well as little girls' hats in >the Edwardian era. > >Hope H. Dunlap > I believe it's just an exceptionally large bag gathered into a band. To make it stand up you can make a cushion that goes inside it - and then you can also have a floppy hat and a comfy seat! -- Jean Waddie ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 16:07:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA21218 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:07:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA28921; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:15:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA06211 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:11:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA06185 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:11:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.125 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:10:39 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: what is "stuff"? Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:12:56 -0500 Message-ID: <001a01be5928$5c1e3500$eb17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <36C86940.1563557C@flash.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" One of those words that means different things depending on the place and decade. Jane Austin prized her "stuff" dress, which was wool. She admitted it was countrified and unfashionable, as opposed to muslin or silk, but she said it was "a great comfort to me." Sometimes stuff means cheap wool, partially using partly recycled materials but that is also called "coarse stuff." I doubt that it is what Jane Austen wore, but rather a nice soft, warm wool. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Charlene Charette Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 1:37 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: what is "stuff"? -Poster: Charlene Charette SNSpies@aol.com wrote: > << So, what is "stuff"? >> > > "Stuff" is any fabric or material, as far as I am aware. > > Nancy (Ingvild) That was my first thought, but she seems to use the word with various meanings. --Charlene -- The discontent of the people is more dangerous to a monarch than all the might of his enemies on the battlefield. -- Isabella d'Este ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 16:19:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23617 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:18:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA00447; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:26:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA07638 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:21:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA07625 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:21:50 -0700 (MST) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id XIMTa20553 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:17:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <74fc63c8.36c88f05@aol.com> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:17:57 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: chain mail Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com Yes, the Costume Technicians Handbook has instructions on making chain mail as well as a variety of other theatrical armor. My favorite armor in that book is the felt saturated in white glue. I've yet to do it myself but from what I've heard the effect is very realistic. Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 17:04:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA27585 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:04:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA07751; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:13:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA15880 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:09:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA15875 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:08:57 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id VZEDa03212 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:03:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <62f53f87.36c899a4@aol.com> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:03:16 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Dear Kay and all, Batting should be selected for modern reproduction petticoat based on use, type and amount of quilting(hand or machine), and type of outer and lining fabric. Use: lots of use means lots of washing or dry cleaning, use a polyester/cotton blend or silk batting. Quilt magazines will have addresses for shops if you do not have one in your area. Little quilting or by machine: use polyester/cotton blend, wool, or silk batting. Cotton batting will ball up and create huge lumps if not quilted heavily (about every1/2"). Outer fabric and lining: use a batting that is compatible with the fabric. Less bearding -- those tiny white pills seeping to the outside. That is from the polyester. Colonial Williamsburg quilted petticoats were washed or drycleaned between wearings by different people, so they got more washing than your personal petticoat might get in 10 years. We used polyester/cotton blend or silk for the ones that were worn a lot. The one exact repro petticoat that we made for exhibition with an extant garment, we used wool batting. Most of the battings in the petticoats we examined were wool or silk. Hope this helps, Sally _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 18:24:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA28077 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:24:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA20331; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:32:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA27650 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:28:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from names.telcom.wvu.edu (names.wvu.edu [157.182.140.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA27610 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:28:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from wvulib1.lib.wvu.edu ([157.182.225.205]) by names.telcom.wvu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/JLF-19981102) with SMTP id SAA03925 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:27:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990215182424.006a4d2c@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> X-Sender: khoover@wvnvm.wvnet.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:24:24 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: KATHY HOOVER Subject: H-COST: h-costume: corset definition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: KATHY HOOVER Hi - I was hoping someone could help me. I'm trying to find the definition of "cache-corset." I have been doing some research on corsets and found this term listed in Ewing, Elizabeth, either in Dress and Undress: a History of Women's Underwear or in Underwear: A History, which are virtually the same book. But I jotted this term down in my notes without any other explanation (maybe she didn't give one), and now I've sent the books back to interlibrary loan. To help jog anyone's memory, it was in the chapter that covered the period 1890-1908. I would be most grateful for any and all ideas anyone has. Thanks in advance, Kathy Hoover _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 18:53:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA28229 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:53:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA25462; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:01:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA01772 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:57:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA01765 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:57:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p12.directcon.net [206.170.184.61]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA03597 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:51:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:51:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902152351.PAA03597@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: h-costume: corset definition Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 06:24 PM 2/15/99 -0500, you wrote: > -Poster: KATHY HOOVER >Hi - >I was hoping someone could help me. I'm trying to find the definition of >"cache-corset." Isn't "cache" French for "hide"? That's as in "conceal", not as in "leather". Could it be a corset cover? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 18:55:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA28239 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:55:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA25706; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:03:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA02068 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:59:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA02055 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:59:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p12.directcon.net [206.170.184.61]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA03975 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:53:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:53:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902152353.PAA03975@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: h-costume: corset definition Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson I have been doing some research on corsets and found this term listed in Ewing, Elizabeth, either in Dress and Undress: a History of Women's Underwear or in Underwear: A History, which are virtually the same book. But I jotted this term down in my notes without any other explanation (maybe she didn't give one), and now I've sent the books back to interlibrary loan. > By the way, if anyone has this book, I'm also in need of some information from it, which has to do with finding an old friend of my father's. Please, if anyone has it and would be willing to look something up, please email me at margo@directcon.net. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 19:12:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA28416 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:12:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA28253; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:18:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA03951 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:14:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA03943 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:14:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.215] (ell228.acadia.net [205.217.210.84]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id TAA17941 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:14:36 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:14:47 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: stuff Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Often referred to as shoddy as well (recycled wool material.) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 19:12:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA28423 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:12:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA28285; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA03966 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:14:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA03957 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:14:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D3JP3WRR; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:14:27 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: cotton batting Message-ID: <19980922.082330.5351.2.kayherb@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-8,10-29 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:14:27 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" Geez, how could I have forgotten about them??? Lotsa good contacts -- thanks all! Kay kayherb@juno.com On Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:03:02 -0500 pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) writes: > >-Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) > ><use a >thin wool or cotton batting, if I can find it here in the depths of >"if >it ain't polyester we don't have it.">> > >Textile Reproductions, in West Chesterfield MA, used to carry (may >still) >some really nice thin cotton batting that would be suitable. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 19:36:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA28611 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:36:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA02690; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:45:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA07211 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:40:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.niagara.com (mail.niagara.com [209.5.56.12]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA07194 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:40:48 -0700 (MST) From: kathleen@niagara.com Received: from kathleen.niagara.com (isdn-22.niagara.com [209.5.58.22]) by mail.niagara.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA25129 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:40:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:40:38 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902160040.TAA25129@mail.niagara.com> X-Sender: kathleen@mail.niagara.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Scottish words (OT) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kathleen@niagara.com Henk wrote: >Scottish has a lot of Dutch-like >words (like 'kirk' = 'kerk' in Dutch = church, etc). The Scots and the >Friesians (western and northern Dutch) have been trade- and fishing >partners since the 7th c, so that's probably why. Also, English is a Germanic language as is Dutch. Scottish tends to be an earlier form of English, and therefore closer to its Germanic roots. Proof of that is in the velar fricatives. Okay, a little off-topic :) Kathleen (Catriona) () _/)(\_ "Tehee!" quod she, and clapte the wyndow to /~~\ /____\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 20:05:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA28723 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:05:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA08173; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:13:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA10571 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:09:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA10566 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:09:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip213-39.cc.interlog.com [207.34.213.39]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA07081 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:09:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990214205608.0097db30@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:56:08 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: patch In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990212080435.00b2c880@pop.slip.net> References: <7F402D0574C3D011ACF000A0C92B23D3017B0701@nt13pv.apsc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >When describing how she is dressed and coiffed it says 'High on her >check she sports, as she often did, a patch.' The reproduction is not >good, so I can't see anything on her cheeks. What might the 'patch' be? >A faked 'beauty mark'?? Yes they were faked 'beauty marks.' But, I seem to remember reading somewhere (can't remember where - it was a LONG time ago) that the patches were also used to cover the pits created by the white lead cosmetics. I seem to remember seeing a picture of a woman with at least half a dozen of them scattered all over her face. Anyone else ever remember hearing this? Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 20:15:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA28765 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:15:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA09365; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:24:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA11841 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:20:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA11835 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:20:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.227 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:19:33 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:51:40 -0500 Message-ID: <001f01be594b$218d9a20$eb17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <62f53f87.36c899a4@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Sally, This helps immensely, thanks. I had forgotten silk as a possibility for batting, too. Period references to "swansdown" abound in England. Do you think they really meant down from swans? In particular I've seen it associated with under-waistcoats. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of SAQUEEN@aol.com Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 5:03 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Dear Kay and all, Batting should be selected for modern reproduction petticoat based on use, type and amount of quilting(hand or machine), and type of outer and lining fabric. Use: lots of use means lots of washing or dry cleaning, use a polyester/cotton blend or silk batting. Quilt magazines will have addresses for shops if you do not have one in your area. Little quilting or by machine: use polyester/cotton blend, wool, or silk batting. Cotton batting will ball up and create huge lumps if not quilted heavily (about every1/2"). Outer fabric and lining: use a batting that is compatible with the fabric. Less bearding -- those tiny white pills seeping to the outside. That is from the polyester. Colonial Williamsburg quilted petticoats were washed or drycleaned between wearings by different people, so they got more washing than your personal petticoat might get in 10 years. We used polyester/cotton blend or silk for the ones that were worn a lot. The one exact repro petticoat that we made for exhibition with an extant garment, we used wool batting. Most of the battings in the petticoats we examined were wool or silk. Hope this helps, Sally ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 20:16:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA28772 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:16:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA09408; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:24:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA11863 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:20:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA11846 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:20:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.227 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:19:40 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Elizabethan Corset Workshop Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:12:31 -0500 Message-ID: <002001be594b$2619d900$eb17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Before spending money on a commercial pattern, you might consider these alternative corset pattern and directions sources: http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/ has an Elizabethan corset pattern generator and a lot of useful info on constructing a pair of bodies. http://www.vincents.demon.co.uk/stays/stays.htm has directions for making 17th Century stays. Julie Zetterberg's Costume WebPages at http://www.members.aol.com/nebula5/costume.html has a host of additional WebLinks for corset-making for different Centuries. The best book I've seen for this is Norah Waugh's *Corsets and Crinolines,* which includes very entertaining period writings and engravings, but also patterns from all periods, custom measurement directions, and a careful step by step method for drafting the stays and then sewing them. About $25, in print, widely available, and also in libraries. http://www.Amazon.com undoubtedly has it and their shipment time is awesomely short (2 days in many cases). Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 20:35:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA28854 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:35:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA13056; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:43:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA14250 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:39:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA14239 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:39:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.227 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:38:48 -0800 From: To: Subject: H-COST: Patch Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:43:11 -0500 Message-ID: <002301be594d$cc9938a0$eb17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990214205608.0097db30@mail.interlog.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: I can't comment on the white lead pits, but John Bulwer's *Anthropometamorphosis* of 1653 contains an illustration of an English lady with several patches on her face. I exaggerated when I said in an earlier post that it was "a coach and six." It was only "a coach and four." Along with a couple of quarter-moons, a star, a heart, and a polka-dot. I found it reproduced in Phillips and Tomkinson's *English Women in Life and Letters,* Oxford University Press, 1926. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Danielle Nunn Sent: Sunday, February 14, 1999 8:56 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: patch -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >When describing how she is dressed and coiffed it says 'High on her >check she sports, as she often did, a patch.' The reproduction is not >good, so I can't see anything on her cheeks. What might the 'patch' be? >A faked 'beauty mark'?? Yes they were faked 'beauty marks.' But, I seem to remember reading somewhere (can't remember where - it was a LONG time ago) that the patches were also used to cover the pits created by the white lead cosmetics. I seem to remember seeing a picture of a woman with at least half a dozen of them scattered all over her face. Anyone else ever remember hearing this? Cheers, Danielle ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 20:45:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA28888 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:45:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA14694; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:53:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA15326 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:49:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay1.Hawaii.Edu (root@relay1.hawaii.edu [128.171.3.53]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id SAA15311 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:49:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from uhunix1.its.hawaii.edu ([128.171.44.6]) by relay1.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <148518(5)>; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:49:42 -1000 Received: from localhost by uhunix1.its.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <135685(5)>; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:49:30 -1000 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:49:28 -1000 From: lisaleon@hawaii.edu X-Sender: lisaleon@uhunix1 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: h-costume: corset definition In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19990215182424.006a4d2c@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: lisaleon@hawaii.edu > "cache-corset." I have been doing some research on corsets and found > this term listed in Ewing, Elizabeth, either in Dress and > Undress: a History of Women's Underwear or in >From Dress and Undress: When, in 1902, Mrs. Eric Pritchard's The Cult of Chiffon, dedicated to her friend Lady Warwick, a famous Edwardian beauty, was published, it too made much of the importance and beauty of underwear. ---and in a subsequent paragraph--- High prices are, however, not now necessary, becaue 'all our best shops nowadays can provide pretty dainty lingerie at moderate prices, although we can, without doubt, easily spend a small fortune on delightful trifles of this description'. She does not question the accepted panoply of many undergarments, but only their character; thus 'the cache-corset, like the chemise, may be a thing of beauty'. This is absolutely not my period so I cannot interpret, but that's pretty much all it says about it. lisa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 21:25:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA29031 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:25:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA20938; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:33:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA19348 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:29:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA19339 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:29:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-157.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.157]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA06277 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:29:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990215205451.00986b40@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:54:51 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Query In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >I'm quite keen on organising a corset making day for my Shire, and doing a >bulk buy of the plastic whalebone with Yoshiwara (who has kindly offered to >organise it). But I have a couple of queries: > >1. None of us are expert sewers, but we want to be as accurate as possible >with our C.16th corsets. What is the best pattern for us to use (I have the >Alter Years catalogue, but will consider other stuff)? > >2. I'd like some opinions from people who specialise in C.16th corsets - is >the plastic whalebone heavy enough? > >Any other things I should be aware of/wary of? You can post me off-list if >this topic has done the rounds too much. MTIA, Go for it. I would love to hear about the results. I would recommend basing your corsets on the one in Arnold's Pattern's of Fashion. You get to see a photo of an extant corset (pair of bodies). You need to fit the pattern to each person for maximum comfort and fit. Unfortuneately, I've never encountered the plastic whalebone so I can't give an opinion. I useually use the spring steel bones. Good luck, and if you have any more questions please feel free to contact me. Cheers, Danielle P.S. My apologies for my lack of spelling ability tonight. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 21:25:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA29035 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:25:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA20959; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:33:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA19363 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:29:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA19352 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:29:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-157.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.157]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA06310 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:29:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990215212457.009aa380@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:24:57 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: silk batting In-Reply-To: <62f53f87.36c899a4@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Use: lots of use means lots of washing or dry cleaning, use a polyester/cotton >blend or silk batting. Does anyone know of a source for silk batting? It sounds so decadent... Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 22:24:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA29245 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:24:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA29639; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:33:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA25661 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:28:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA25655 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:28:52 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id QTJDa01428 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:26:10 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:26:10 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Hope, Swansdown, according to Montgomery, "was a waistcoat material described by Perkins in 1833 as 'originally made of wool and a small quantity of silk, but latterly with a large quantity of cotton instead of silk'. Swansdowns and toilinets were fancy woolen textiles, or cotton and wool, developed in the early 19th century." Montgomery also has a second listing for swanskin, "a fine woolen cloth of plain weave related to flannel and bay....In the late eighteenth century, the name swanskin or swansdown, was also given to fleecy cotton cloth. Sometimes called ironing cloth, it was also used for printers' blankets, for heavy underclothing, and gaiters, and jackets." The fibers pulled to the surface, forming a nap somewhat resembled swansdown feathers. My understanding from Montgomery's description and other primary sources, that it was similar to cotton flannel of today. What did we do before Montgomery's book? Sally _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 22:43:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA29333 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:43:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA02215; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:51:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA27498 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:47:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA27489 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:47:36 -0700 (MST) From: trekona@erols.com Received: from erols.com (207-172-128-226.s226.tnt1.col.erols.com [207.172.128.226]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA04039 for < h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:47:30 -0500 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com (h-costume) Subject: H-COST: Swedish FO- described Date: Tue, 16 Feb 99 03:53:07 GMT Message-ID: X-Mailer: Quarterdeck Message Center [2.00] Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: trekona@erols.com Hi, Shortly before Costume Con, I had announced that I had finally finished my year-long project of that 1650s Swedish Colonist outfit. I didn't want to describe it before I went into competition, but since someone had asked for a description afterwards, I can write about it now. I imagine that Betsey Delaney will be putting all the pictures from the show up on the web page, and there was some really great stuff! I'll describe the outfit in the order I showed the judges - dressing order; oh yes - and *everything* is entirely hand sewn (except the shoes). First is the underdress, or sark. It is white hankie linen, your basic two-gore dress with a narrow square collar and full long sleeves with 4 small tucks at the shoulders and gathered into a cuff. The shoulders were reinforced with rectangles, and the sark came about to my knees. On the front of the collar I wore a little silver pin that was heart-shapped with a bunch of diamond spangley bits hanging from it. Then I put on my socks (while I can still reach my feet). They are heavy red wool, knee-high and gartered with linen bands, cut stockings. Sort of like Colonial stockings I think. Then there are the skirts. 4 of them. The inner most is red wool which is simply gathered to a waistband and tied with linen ties. The wool really isn't scratchy because that sark is between the skirt and me, and the sark goes to my knees. The next skirt is red linen, gathered in knife pleats into a waist band that closed with a small hook and eye. Then a yellow linen skirt that was cartridge pleated and closed with two hooks and eyes (its a lot heavier). BTW, it *really* helps to interface the pleating when you cartridge pleat on linen! The top skirt is an olive green wool skirt that is also cartridge pleated and closed with linen ties. also BTW, Swedish skirts closed in front of the left hip, not on the side like English skirts. Then there is the apron, tied on the left-hand side, and the skirt-sack which is a lovely colorful applique design on a black background which is tied around the waist and worn on the right. Now I can finally put on the bodice: green wool shell over 1/2" steel boning (encased in light fustian). The bodice does have shoulder straps, it closes with about 16 hooks and eyes down the CF, and flares out in a skirt that has 4 sets of little gores (CB, 2 side back, 2 side front and 2 front). I wore a little white linen cap that has 4 fan-like folds in the back and trim that matches the apron string around the top. And a blue wool jacket, lined with heavy fustian. The jacket had 4 gores, a double-vent back which included a false gore (the gores, like the entire jacket is outlined in contrasting ribbon; there is a matching triangle of ribbon on the CB tail as if it also had a gore), and turned back red cuffs. After I had all of my clothes on, I stuffed my poor feet into my wooden shoes which hadn't quite gotten carved out enough for comfort. Oh, the shoes had hay in the toes. It's quite a lot of clothing! But I did finally get it all done. I started work on the actual sewing in late April or May, and pretty much worked constantly. I'm pretty happy with it, though. -Judy Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 22:46:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA29352 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:46:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA02800; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:55:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA27908 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:51:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA27803 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:50:36 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 6KLGa03211 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:46:13 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:46:13 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com In a message dated 99-02-13 22:07:29 EST, you write: << Do you think quilted petticoats were worn summer and winter? Fithian writes in his journal in 1772 that he went to see Miss Lucy and she had on a sky blue quilted coat (petticoat). Date was June 6. They do seem to replace the hoops for many women, especially at home and in the morning. I have seen quilted petticoats that were worn over hoops also. There were probably a lot of these petticoats around worn both over hoops and not over hoops. What were the layers compsed of? Was it 3? Silk, wool, silk? Silk, wool, linen? or just silk, wool? Any swansdown between silk layers? Wool or cotton batt? >> Most had 3 layers, decorative top fabric, batting, and lining usually linen or glazed wool like a shalloon which was a cheap twilled worsted. The most fascinating part was how they dealt with the extra fabric around the waist area to maintain the flat front. Some stopped the batting about 3 - 5 inches down by sewing on a separate fabric piece that was pleated into the waist tapes. In our research, we found quilted petticoats at all levels of society with the exception of field slaves in America. Runaway ads in the Virginia Gazette and Maryland Gazette describe quilted petticoats. Would love to do a research into import items coming into Virginia -- maybe in the future! Sally _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 23:38:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA29561 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 23:37:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA07844; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:39:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA02945 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:35:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA02888 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:35:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.157 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:34:30 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 23:36:44 -0500 Message-ID: <002501be5966$5eb662e0$eb17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Thanks Sally for this wealth of information. Checking on the quilted petticoat in the Philadelphia Museum of Art that one of our members referred us to earlier, light blue silk, lined with blue moreen and wool wadding, quilted with silk thread in a running stitch. Waist 24", center back length 35 1/2 ." Quilting all the way up to the waist, no visible break to a different material. They say it dates from 1700-1730, but given the extent of the decorative quilting (not just diamond pattern) all the way to crotch height and the oval shape of the panniers, I doubt its that early. Looks like 1735+ when hoops were wide and oval and women wore the open robe. But who knows how they dated it. I suppose it is hubraic to challenge it. Waiting for lightening to strike me down for questioning authority. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of SAQUEEN@aol.com Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 10:46 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com In a message dated 99-02-13 22:07:29 EST, you write: << Do you think quilted petticoats were worn summer and winter? Fithian writes in his journal in 1772 that he went to see Miss Lucy and she had on a sky blue quilted coat (petticoat). Date was June 6. They do seem to replace the hoops for many women, especially at home and in the morning. I have seen quilted petticoats that were worn over hoops also. There were probably a lot of these petticoats around worn both over hoops and not over hoops. What were the layers compsed of? Was it 3? Silk, wool, silk? Silk, wool, linen? or just silk, wool? Any swansdown between silk layers? Wool or cotton batt? >> Most had 3 layers, decorative top fabric, batting, and lining usually linen or glazed wool like a shalloon which was a cheap twilled worsted. The most fascinating part was how they dealt with the extra fabric around the waist area to maintain the flat front. Some stopped the batting about 3 - 5 inches down by sewing on a separate fabric piece that was pleated into the waist tapes. In our research, we found quilted petticoats at all levels of society with the exception of field slaves in America. Runaway ads in the Virginia Gazette and Maryland Gazette describe quilted petticoats. Would love to do a research into import items coming into Virginia -- maybe in the future! Sally ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 15 23:44:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA29586 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 23:44:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA07802; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:39:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA02884 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:35:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA02839 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:34:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.157 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:34:24 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: silk batting Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 23:21:28 -0500 Message-ID: <002401be5966$59a3dd00$eb17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990215212457.009aa380@mail.interlog.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" There is a home-based business which advertises in the back of Threads from time to time which imports it from China. It is everything you imagine! In Colonial America, women in Connecticut, Pennsylvania, and Georgia (at least) cultivated silk worms. In 1730, the $export of silk was 1/7 $ export of cotton. It had to be sent to England to be woven. I imagine, but don't know, that a lot of this silk found its way into homemade coverlets and undervests and petticoats and was never sent abroad. But it was a cash crop, so who knows. Does anyone know more? Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Danielle Nunn Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 9:25 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: silk batting -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Use: lots of use means lots of washing or dry cleaning, use a polyester/cotton >blend or silk batting. Does anyone know of a source for silk batting? It sounds so decadent... Cheers, Danielle ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 00:01:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA29650 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 00:01:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA10169; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:07:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA05113 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:02:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.inil.com (inil.com [206.31.32.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA05099 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:02:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from [209.176.240.47] by mail.inil.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 177-57935U7500L650S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 23:02:39 -0600 X-Sender: baddorf@pop3.inil.com (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19990212151939.006aba60@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Deb Baddorf Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists: surviving garments? Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 23:02:39 -0600 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Deb Baddorf >-Poster: KATHY HOOVER > >At 05:03 PM 2/12/99 GMT, you wrote: >> >>"The world's smallest waist belonged to Mrs. Ethel Granger (deceased). >>At her ultimate her waist measured just 13". > >I found a picture online of Mrs. Granger. Go to: > >http://www.staylace.com/granger.jpg > >Kathy Hoover > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bernhard_Foltz/CORGRA1.JPG has another shot of Mrs Granger Deb _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 05:18:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA19829 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 05:18:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA28397; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 03:27:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA05995 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 03:23:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailgate.caci.co.uk (mailgate.caci.co.uk [195.173.80.20]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA05799 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 03:22:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from caci_ntas1.caci.co.uk (caci_ntas1.caci.co.uk [194.70.42.18]) by mailgate.caci.co.uk (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA25846 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:19:53 GMT Received: by caci_ntas1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:20:25 -0000 Message-ID: From: Christina Nevin To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: FW: Thank you very much Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:20:23 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Christina Nevin A thank you from Maarten for the info received on C9th Dutch clothing... - Lucretzia ---------- From: Maarten Cornelis Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 9:50 PM Subject: Thank you very much Hello, Thank you for engaging to answer my question. I hopethat ,the dresmakers for the theaterplay will make magnificant costumes with the information I 've recieved. thanks. Luc directing theater. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 06:17:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA20027 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 06:17:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA01603; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 04:26:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA24303 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 04:21:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA24054 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 04:21:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) id <01J7T5EJPF7K00HN2B@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:23:14 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) with ESMTP id <01J7T4OXUVMU00GVXC@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:51:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.43); Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:49:30 +0000 (GMT0BST) Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.43); Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:49:14 +0000 (GMT0BST) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:49:05 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: H-COST: patch In-reply-to: <199902160328.UAA25675@indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <12FD26B0F34@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Teddy Hi Danielle > Yes they were faked 'beauty marks.' But, I seem to remember reading > somewhere (can't remember where - it was a LONG time ago) that the > patches were also used to cover the pits created by the white lead > cosmetics. I seem to remember seeing a picture of a woman with at > least half a dozen of them scattered all over her face. > > Anyone else ever remember hearing this? I can't quote sources, I'm afraid but I was told this in the historical make-up module of the course in make-up for television, stage and screen that I did about ten years ago Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 06:52:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA25725 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 06:52:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA03188; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 05:01:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA28112 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 04:57:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (tor-smtp1.netcom.ca [207.181.101.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA28107 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 04:56:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from default (trt-on1-43.netcom.ca [207.181.81.107]) by tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA22192 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 06:56:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002001be59a4$2931f100$6b51b5cf@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists: surviving garments? Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 07:01:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" >>>"The world's smallest waist belonged to Mrs. Ethel Granger (deceased). >>>At her ultimate her waist measured just 13". >>I found a picture online of Mrs. Granger. Go to: >>http://www.staylace.com/granger.jpg > >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bernhard_Foltz/CORGRA1.JPG >has another shot of Mrs Granger Yarg. The first looks rather lumpy - a bad bra day perhaps? The second one makes me wonder how her food got down. And what's with those pearls studding her nose? Was she in a freak show? Eve Harris whose waist is definitely NOT 13" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 07:07:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA05748 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 07:07:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA03678; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 05:15:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA28586 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 05:11:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA28580 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 05:10:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) id <01J7T5EJPG5S00K6P9@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:32:31 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) with ESMTP id <01J7T47HIL5Q00HEZO@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:37:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.43); Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:35:27 +0000 (GMT0BST) Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.43); Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:35:06 +0000 (GMT0BST) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:34:57 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: H-COST: "Stuff" In-reply-to: <199902142144.OAA01792@indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <12F96155DD8@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Teddy > "STUFF, in commerce, a general name for all kinds of fabricks of > gold, silver, silk, wool, hair, cotton, or thread, manufactured on > the loom, of which a number are velvets, brocades, mohairs, sattins, > taffeties, cloths, serges, &c." > > > I was a little surprised myself at this definition, since I've been > accustomed to an impression of "stuff" as being mostly woven wools. > Guess I shoulda read this before!! I don't know if regionality > plays a part in the definition. The EB was published in Scotland. It never occured to me before but my favourite fabric shop is called "Stuff" It's one of those places where you can get great fabrics really cheaply but they don't have a *regular* range of items, your choice is restricted to whatever they have at the time you visit. Cheap wools are *fairly* certain though weights, colours and fibre-contents vary from visit to visit. I love the place. It's a pity I moved to the other side of the city (London) so have to make a real effort to get there and browse. Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 09:37:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA08195 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:37:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA13087; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 07:46:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA10420 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 07:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from access5.digex.net (qlRW0LpSfu9oE@access5.digex.net [205.197.245.196]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA10318 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 07:41:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (betsy@localhost) by access5.digex.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA04211; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:39:29 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: access5.digex.net: betsy owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:39:29 -0500 (EST) From: "Betsy R. Delaney" To: trekona@erols.com cc: h-costume Subject: Re: H-COST: Swedish FO- described In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Betsy R. Delaney" Oh, dear heaven... Judy, do you mind if I take this description, or something very like this, and put it up with your entry photos when I have them back from Ken Warren? Pictures are pretty, but don't convey everything if you can't step up and ask the costumer. -betsy On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 trekona@erols.com wrote: > > -Poster: trekona@erols.com > > Hi, > Shortly before Costume Con, I had announced that I had finally finished my > year-long project of that 1650s Swedish Colonist outfit. I didn't want to > describe it before I went into competition, but since someone had asked for a > description afterwards, I can write about it now. I imagine that Betsey Delaney > will be putting all the pictures from the show up on the web page, and there > was some really great stuff! > I'll describe the outfit in the order I showed the judges - dressing order; > oh yes - and *everything* is entirely hand sewn (except the shoes). First is > the underdress, or sark. It is white hankie linen, your basic two-gore dress > with a narrow square collar and full long sleeves with 4 small tucks at the > shoulders and gathered into a cuff. The shoulders were reinforced with > rectangles, and the sark came about to my knees. On the front of the collar I > wore a little silver pin that was heart-shapped with a bunch of diamond > spangley bits hanging from it. > Then I put on my socks (while I can still reach my feet). They are heavy > red wool, knee-high and gartered with linen bands, cut stockings. Sort of like > Colonial stockings I think. > Then there are the skirts. 4 of them. The inner most is red wool which is > simply gathered to a waistband and tied with linen ties. The wool really isn't > scratchy because that sark is between the skirt and me, and the sark goes to my > knees. The next skirt is red linen, gathered in knife pleats into a waist band > that closed with a small hook and eye. Then a yellow linen skirt that was > cartridge pleated and closed with two hooks and eyes (its a lot heavier). BTW, > it *really* helps to interface the pleating when you cartridge pleat on linen! > The top skirt is an olive green wool skirt that is also cartridge pleated > and closed with linen ties. also BTW, Swedish skirts closed in front of the > left hip, not on the side like English skirts. > Then there is the apron, tied on the left-hand side, and the skirt-sack > which is a lovely colorful applique design on a black background which is tied > around the waist and worn on the right. > Now I can finally put on the bodice: green wool shell over 1/2" steel > boning (encased in light fustian). The bodice does have shoulder straps, it > closes with about 16 hooks and eyes down the CF, and flares out in a skirt that > has 4 sets of little gores (CB, 2 side back, 2 side front and 2 front). > I wore a little white linen cap that has 4 fan-like folds in the back and > trim that matches the apron string around the top. > And a blue wool jacket, lined with heavy fustian. The jacket had 4 gores, a > double-vent back which included a false gore (the gores, like the entire jacket > is outlined in contrasting ribbon; there is a matching triangle of ribbon on > the CB tail as if it also had a gore), and turned back red cuffs. > After I had all of my clothes on, I stuffed my poor feet into my wooden > shoes which hadn't quite gotten carved out enough for comfort. Oh, the shoes > had hay in the toes. > It's quite a lot of clothing! But I did finally get it all done. I started > work on the actual sewing in late April or May, and pretty much worked > constantly. I'm pretty happy with it, though. > -Judy Mitchell > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > -- Betsy R. Delaney Webmistress at large Costume-Con(R) Archivist *************************************************************************** betsy@hawkeswood.com or betsy@ability.net http://www.hawkeswood.com/, home of Hawkeswood Designs and http://www.CostumeCon.org/, home of Costume-ConNections *************************************************************************** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 10:41:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08559 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:41:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA20227; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:48:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA19079 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:43:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from morgoth.tuug.org (root@morgoth.tuug.org [130.232.72.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA19073 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:43:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from shodan.yok.utu.fi ([130.232.128.27] HELO shodan ident: NO-IDENT-SERVICE [port 62468]) by tuug.org with SMTP id <40859-27534>; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:43:21 +0200 From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" Organization: Lyninine Federation To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:44:08 +2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Query X-Confirm-Reading-To: lynoure@tuug.org X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19990215205451.00986b40@mail.interlog.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990216154321Z40859-27534+64@tuug.org> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" On 15 Feb 99, at 20:54, Danielle Nunn wrote: > Go for it. I would love to hear about the results. I would recommend > basing your corsets on the one in Arnold's Pattern's of Fashion. You get > to see a photo of an extant corset (pair of bodies). You need to fit the > pattern to each person for maximum comfort and fit. Unfortuneately, I've > never encountered the plastic whalebone so I can't give an opinion. I > useually use the spring steel bones. Good luck, and if you have any more > questions please feel free to contact me. I have used 6mm*2.5mm artificial whalebone in Elizabethan corsets and it has been plenty heavy enough for that, IMO. I have also liked the way the 10mm*1m artificial whalebone has behaved in bodices and Victorian corsets. -- -------(c) 1999--------------* lynoure@tuug.org * Ella Lynoure Rajamaki--------* http://www.tuug.org/~lynoure * _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 11:26:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08760 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:26:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA28812; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:35:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA28000 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:30:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA27977 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:30:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA28675 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:22:10 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:22:07 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: 1930s corsets In-Reply-To: <199902141334.IAA24353@mail.niagara.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad A woman on another email list recently found a pink corset dated 1932. All I recall of the description is that it laces up the front and has buckles. Since corsets were not widely used by that decade, who might this kind of one been intended for? Anyone know? Sylvia R Divinity Designs http://www.d-e-designs.com/divinity/ 515 Manhattan Drive, #203 sylvia@netherworld.com Boulder, CO 80303 USA complete catalog on website _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 11:29:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08774 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:29:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA29628; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:38:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA28591 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:33:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu (rumpleteazer.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.45]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA28577 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:33:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU (31907@ese.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.43]) by cats.ucsc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.4.cats-athena) with ESMTP id IAA15885 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:33:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ariyana@localhost) by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.8.8/8.8.8.cats-client) id IAA14152; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:33:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:33:46 -0800 (PST) From: Ariyana Kylstram X-Sender: ariyana@ese.UCSC.EDU To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: plastic whalebones In-Reply-To: <199902151609.JAA13076@indra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ariyana Kylstram I would NOT recommend plastic whalebones. At 5'4", a 36B bust, ~135 lbs, (read: fairly small but muscular) they don't provide me adequate support or shaping for 16th C. I use strictly steel, either spring steel or flat steel, and I use approximately 12 bones per English 16th C corset. For a good looking (haven't ordered it yet, thinking about it) place to mail order proper boning, check out http://www.farthingales.on.ca/ or use Drea's list of merchants at http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/mailorder.html .ari The Lady Ariyana of House Kylstram ariyana@cats.ucsc.edu http://www.kithrup.com/~ariyana/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 11:51:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08955 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:50:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA03049; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:00:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA02527 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:55:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from sand2.global.net.uk (sand2.global.net.uk [194.126.80.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA02503 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:55:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from p4cs07a06.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.215.77] helo=LHIGGINS.ORGELLA.COM) by sand2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10Cnm4-0006WY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:55:04 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990216165411.00f00850@mail.globalnet.co.uk> X-Sender: duchess@mail.globalnet.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:54:16 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Elizabeth Higgins Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists: surviving garments? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Higgins At 07:01 16/02/99 -0500, you wrote: >>http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bernhard_Foltz/CORGRA1.JPG >>has another shot of Mrs Granger > >Yarg. The first looks rather lumpy - a bad bra day perhaps? The second >one makes me wonder how her food got down. And what's with those >pearls studding her nose? Was she in a freak show? According to an autobiography her hubby was into body modification in a big way and she had all sorts of piercings. Modern girls weren't the first! Lissa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 12:00:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09053 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:00:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA04553; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:08:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA04080 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:03:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (root@jefferson.patriot.net [206.151.9.249]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA04068 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:03:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.151.9.15] (th-0-6.patriot.net [206.151.9.15]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA11925 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:02:28 -0500 Message-Id: <199902161702.MAA11925@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: H-COST: plastic whalebones Date: Tue, 16 Feb 99 12:02:32 -0500 x-sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ariyana Kylstram wrote, >I would NOT recommend plastic whalebones. At 5'4", a 36B bust, ~135 lbs, >(read: fairly small but muscular) they don't provide me adequate support or >shaping for 16th C. I use strictly steel, either spring steel or flat >steel, and I use approximately 12 bones per English 16th C corset. There are several different types of plastic boning. First there is featherboning, which is available in little packets in the notions department. It's really bad for the type of corsetry that most of us do. It crumples under pressure and stays crumpled. Then there is Rigilene. This is several nylon strips woven into a synthetic tape. It is light, but it does not crumple. I find it useful for the horizontal bones in eighteenth century stays. With some perseverence and dexterity (and a candle flame) it can be cut into narrower widths. The plastic boning some people are talking about is fairly new, and I believe comes from Germany. It is very thick, about 1/8". It is very stiff and looks like it could stop bullets. It seems to be stiffer than the steel bones, and might be better suited for hoops & farthingales rather than corsers. I hear it is also difficult to cut. -Carol Kocian _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 12:44:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09913 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:44:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA12238; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:51:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA16939 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from boomer.brightok.net (boomer.brightok.net [206.30.97.13]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA16922 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:46:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.brightok.net (sulphur4p195.cld.brightok.net [206.30.100.195]) by boomer.brightok.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA02220 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:46:34 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36C9B030.337C06D9@mail.brightok.net> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:51:45 -0600 From: The Mulders X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Steel or plastic? References: <002001be594b$2619d900$eb17ffd0@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Mulders I have used both in the victorian time period. I prefer plastic for its cost and ease of care. I make about 35 corsets a year for living history events and educational programs. In a perfect world everyone would the stay the same and I could make a corset for individuals, however with weight changes and people rewrites, it changes yearly. They have to share corsets. The steel was more uncomfortable to those who had never worn a corset and the plastic had a better molding ability. Has anyone used a tube top under a corset? Great idea! Works with under bust and over styles. Really makes it more comfortable. I'll tell anyone how to make one if they are interested. I make mine in spandex and in small, medium, large and queen. Nude color. Cuts down on friction and is so great for keeping the corset cleaner. I make corsets in sizes 6 - 22 and short, regular and long waisted. I love riglene but use both bonings. Thanks, Ninya _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 13:20:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15372 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:20:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA19063; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:29:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA27535 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA27503 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:23:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA12549 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:23:32 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp189-148.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.148]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00097 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:23:30 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902161823.TAA00097@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Scottish words (OT) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:03:10 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands > Proof of that is in the velar fricatives. The velar fricatives? The velar fricatives? What are the velar fricatives? Can you eat them? Do they hurt? Is it safe to be in one room with them? Henk (worried) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 13:55:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15549 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:55:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA24773; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:00:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA01279 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:33:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.gte.net (smtp2.gte.net [207.115.153.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA01249 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:33:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from gte.net (1Cust57.tnt3.everett2.wa.da.uu.net [153.35.255.57]) by smtp2.gte.net with ESMTP id MAA20463 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:32:59 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36C9B92E.C8B1BA1D@gte.net> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:30:06 -0800 From: Lady Eleanor X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Swedish FO- described References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lady Eleanor Greetings Betsy and Judy, WOW! I wanna see! I wanna see!! I'm sure we'd ALL like to be able to view this wonderful sounding gown! Could you please post URL? Thanks, Lady Eleanor Betsy R. Delaney wrote: > > -Poster: "Betsy R. Delaney" > > Oh, dear heaven... > > Judy, do you mind if I take this description, or something very like this, > and put it up with your entry photos when I have them back from Ken > Warren? > > Pictures are pretty, but don't convey everything if you can't step up and > ask the costumer. > > -betsy > > On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 trekona@erols.com wrote: > > > > > -Poster: trekona@erols.com > > > > Hi, > > Shortly before Costume Con, I had announced that I had finally finished my > > year-long project of that 1650s Swedish Colonist outfit. I didn't want to > > describe it before I went into competition, but since someone had asked for a > > description afterwards, I can write about it now. I imagine that Betsey Delaney > > will be putting all the pictures from the show up on the web page, and there > > was some really great stuff! > > I'll describe the outfit in the order I showed the judges - dressing order; > > oh yes - and *everything* is entirely hand sewn (except the shoes). First is > > the underdress, or sark. It is white hankie linen, your basic two-gore dress > > with a narrow square collar and full long sleeves with 4 small tucks at the > > shoulders and gathered into a cuff. The shoulders were reinforced with > > rectangles, and the sark came about to my knees. On the front of the collar I > > wore a little silver pin that was heart-shapped with a bunch of diamond > > spangley bits hanging from it. > > Then I put on my socks (while I can still reach my feet). They are heavy > > red wool, knee-high and gartered with linen bands, cut stockings. Sort of like > > Colonial stockings I think. > > Then there are the skirts. 4 of them. The inner most is red wool which is > > simply gathered to a waistband and tied with linen ties. The wool really isn't > > scratchy because that sark is between the skirt and me, and the sark goes to my > > knees. The next skirt is red linen, gathered in knife pleats into a waist band > > that closed with a small hook and eye. Then a yellow linen skirt that was > > cartridge pleated and closed with two hooks and eyes (its a lot heavier). BTW, > > it *really* helps to interface the pleating when you cartridge pleat on linen! > > The top skirt is an olive green wool skirt that is also cartridge pleated > > and closed with linen ties. also BTW, Swedish skirts closed in front of the > > left hip, not on the side like English skirts. > > Then there is the apron, tied on the left-hand side, and the skirt-sack > > which is a lovely colorful applique design on a black background which is tied > > around the waist and worn on the right. > > Now I can finally put on the bodice: green wool shell over 1/2" steel > > boning (encased in light fustian). The bodice does have shoulder straps, it > > closes with about 16 hooks and eyes down the CF, and flares out in a skirt that > > has 4 sets of little gores (CB, 2 side back, 2 side front and 2 front). > > I wore a little white linen cap that has 4 fan-like folds in the back and > > trim that matches the apron string around the top. > > And a blue wool jacket, lined with heavy fustian. The jacket had 4 gores, a > > double-vent back which included a false gore (the gores, like the entire jacket > > is outlined in contrasting ribbon; there is a matching triangle of ribbon on > > the CB tail as if it also had a gore), and turned back red cuffs. > > After I had all of my clothes on, I stuffed my poor feet into my wooden > > shoes which hadn't quite gotten carved out enough for comfort. Oh, the shoes > > had hay in the toes. > > It's quite a lot of clothing! But I did finally get it all done. I started > > work on the actual sewing in late April or May, and pretty much worked > > constantly. I'm pretty happy with it, though. > > -Judy Mitchell > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > > -- > > Betsy R. Delaney > Webmistress at large > Costume-Con(R) Archivist > > *************************************************************************** > betsy@hawkeswood.com or betsy@ability.net > http://www.hawkeswood.com/, home of Hawkeswood Designs > and http://www.CostumeCon.org/, home of Costume-ConNections > *************************************************************************** > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 14:31:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA15709 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:31:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA01872; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:39:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA18759 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:27:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA18636 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:27:34 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id SVKSa26290 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:24:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <81a858f.36c9c5db@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:24:11 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 1930s corsets Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 2/16/99 11:32:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, sylvia@netherworld.com writes: << A woman on another email list recently found a pink corset dated 1932. All I recall of the description is that it laces up the front and has buckles. Since corsets were not widely used by that decade, who might this kind of one been intended for? Anyone know? >> I'm sure many older women in the '30s did not abandon their corsets....maybe during the day they did but to "dress up" they might feel wrong without one. [did your grandmother burn her bra in the '70s?] Remember, it had only been about 2 decades since corsets were considered "necessary". I've also seen some heavily boned girdle-like contraptions from the '30s. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 15:01:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA15883 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:01:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA06606; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:08:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA29678 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:01:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from schultz.io.com (ches@schultz.io.com [199.170.88.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA29475 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:01:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by schultz.io.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA25599 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:01:17 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: schultz.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:01:17 -0600 (CST) From: ches To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1930s corsets In-Reply-To: <81a858f.36c9c5db@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ches Another possibility is a courtisan imported from abroad. (no pun intended) If you watch, or better yet read, "Gigi" you will see many anachronisms in the home of the aunt that is teaching the young Gigi to be a mistress. This is an example of how things are still used decades after thier supposed demise in fasion. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:24:11 EST > From: AlbertCat@aol.com > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: 1930s corsets > > > -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > > In a message dated 2/16/99 11:32:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, > sylvia@netherworld.com writes: > > << > A woman on another email list recently found a pink corset dated 1932. > All I recall of the description is that it laces up the front and has > buckles. Since corsets were not widely used by that decade, who might > this kind of one been intended for? Anyone know? > >> > > I'm sure many older women in the '30s did not abandon their corsets....maybe > during the day they did but to "dress up" they might feel wrong without one. > [did your grandmother burn her bra in the '70s?] Remember, it had only been > about 2 decades since corsets were considered "necessary". I've also seen some > heavily boned girdle-like contraptions from the '30s. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 16:23:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA16223 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:23:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA20138; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:30:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA16570 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:56:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from morgoth.tuug.org (root@morgoth.tuug.org [130.232.72.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA16553 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:56:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from shodan.yok.utu.fi ([130.232.128.27] HELO shodan ident: NO-IDENT-SERVICE [port 5124]) by tuug.org with SMTP id <40876-27534>; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:56:42 +0200 From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" Organization: Lyninine Federation To: Ariyana Kylstram Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:57:33 +2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: plastic whalebones CC: h-costume@indra.com X-Confirm-Reading-To: lynoure@tuug.org X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal References: <199902151609.JAA13076@indra.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990216205642Z40876-27534+70@tuug.org> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" On 16 Feb 99, at 8:33, Ariyana Kylstram wrote: > I would NOT recommend plastic whalebones. At 5'4", a 36B bust, ~135 lbs, > (read: fairly small but muscular) they don't provide me adequate support or > shaping for 16th C. I use strictly steel, either spring steel or flat > steel, and I use approximately 12 bones per English 16th C corset. You have tried artificial whalebone and not some of the other countless types of plastic boning? I have noticed many people seem to think "Plastic is plastic" though different types of plastic are very different from each other (just like different types of metal). If it really was artificial whalebone (and not eg. ridilene), what size did you use? -- -------(c) 1999--------------* lynoure@tuug.org * Ella Lynoure Rajamaki--------* http://www.tuug.org/~lynoure * _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 16:23:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA16227 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:23:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA20242; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:31:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA19804 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:07:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from morgoth.tuug.org (root@morgoth.tuug.org [130.232.72.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA19647 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:06:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from shodan.yok.utu.fi ([130.232.128.27] HELO shodan ident: NO-IDENT-SERVICE [port 6148]) by tuug.org with SMTP id <40876-27534>; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:06:42 +0200 From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" Organization: Lyninine Federation To: , h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:07:35 +2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: plastic whalebones X-Confirm-Reading-To: lynoure@tuug.org X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199902161702.MAA11925@jefferson.patriot.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990216210642Z40876-27534+71@tuug.org> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" On 16 Feb 99, at 12:02, aquazoo@patriot.net wrote: > The plastic boning some people are talking about is fairly new, and > I believe comes from Germany. It is very thick, about 1/8". It is very > stiff and looks like it could stop bullets. It seems to be stiffer than > the steel bones, and might be better suited for hoops & farthingales > rather than corsers. I hear it is also difficult to cut. Actually, there are many width-thickness combinations of it. I have only used 10mm x 1mm and 6mm x 2.5mm myself (the former I liked in my Victorian corsets and various bodices, the latter in Elizabethan ones), but there are also many other sizes. (I would have tried more of them, but as the company has 200m minimum, I couldn't afford to.) Yes, the thickest type is difficult to cut. I had to use cutters to cut the thickest type, but sturdy scissors (no, not facric scissors!) worked with the 1mm thick one. -- -------(c) 1999--------------* lynoure@tuug.org * Ella Lynoure Rajamaki--------* http://www.tuug.org/~lynoure * _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 17:05:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA16596 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:05:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA28086; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:13:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA28654 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:36:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f152.hotmail.com [207.82.251.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id OAA28582 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:35:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 16744 invoked by uid 0); 16 Feb 1999 21:35:11 -0000 Message-ID: <19990216213511.16743.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.206.84.216 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:35:11 PST X-Originating-IP: [208.206.84.216] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Steel or plastic? Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:35:11 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" >-Poster: The Mulders > >I have used both in the victorian time period. I prefer plastic for its >cost and ease of care. I make about 35 corsets a year for living >history events and educational programs. In a perfect world everyone >would the stay the same and I could make a corset for individuals, >however with weight changes and people rewrites, it changes yearly. >They have to share corsets. The steel was more uncomfortable to those >who had never worn a corset and the plastic had a better molding >ability. Has anyone used a tube top under a corset? Great idea! Works >with under bust and over styles. Really makes it more comfortable. >I'll tell anyone how to make one if they are interested. I make mine in >spandex and in small, medium, large and queen. Nude color. Cuts down >on friction and is so great for keeping the corset cleaner. I make >corsets in sizes 6 - 22 and short, regular and long waisted. I love >riglene but use both bonings. >Thanks, >Ninya Egads! I can't imagine anything MORE uncomfortable than a wearing a sticky nylon spandex tube *under* my 18th or 19th c. breathable cotton or linen corset, of course worn over a very lightweight, breathable cotton chemise or shift. Do you do this in the summer months? How do you make it? I use wood and steel for boning my corsets, and I make 18 - 20 corsets per year, every size from an 8-year old little girl to ladies of rather large proportions! We cut wood boning from two types of cane --the type you buy for $7.00 or so per 30 to 50 foot package for weaving baskets. The 5/8 to 3/4 -inch width with one rounded, one flat side is great for larger persons, it is flexible enough to bend yet is very strong. The flat boning comes in the same widths, is not as strong but we wax it heavily on both sides for more strength. We alternate wood bones with steel ones placed at every seam. Try it! We find it very comfortable. The last time I tried to use plastic boning it curled outward and stayed there the first time I bent over. Nothing kept me from bending over improperly, either, it just bent and looked awful. The wooden ones flex to a point and then keep me from moving improperly to any further degree. I have learned to (properly) bend from the hips and "plie" like a ballerina to pick up heavy objects while wearing a corset. The support to my lower back is a godsend. When the bones do break, which most often happens on the sides of the corset at the lower tips, it is very easy to remove and replace them with fresh bones. The cost is miniscule. We do round each end of the wooden bone like a popsicle stick (or regular steel ones are), and waxing also helps them slide in easier. Hope this helps. Susannah > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 17:14:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA16627 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:14:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA29751; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:23:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA08859 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:18:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp0-alterdial.uu.net (smtp0-alterdial.UU.NET [192.48.96.28]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA08852 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:18:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from jwilbur1 by smtp0-alterdial.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: 119.pcpool89.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.89.119]) id QQgcwf10113 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:18:09 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:19:29 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: patch Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19990214205608.0097db30@mail.interlog.com> References: <4.1.19990212080435.00b2c880@pop.slip.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" > > -Poster: Danielle Nunn > > Greetings, > > >When describing how she is dressed and coiffed it says 'High on her >check > she sports, as she often did, a patch.' The reproduction is not >good, so > I can't see anything on her cheeks. What might the 'patch' be? >A faked > 'beauty mark'?? > > Yes they were faked 'beauty marks.' But, I seem to remember reading > somewhere (can't remember where - it was a LONG time ago) that the patches > were also used to cover the pits created by the white lead cosmetics. I > seem to remember seeing a picture of a woman with at least half a dozen of > them scattered all over her face. > > Anyone else ever remember hearing this? > > Cheers, > Danielle I think I remember hearing that the patches were used to cover up pock marks in the skin left by small pox. I don't know whether this is true or not, though it makes sense to me. --Jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 17:20:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA16654 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:20:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA27907; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:13:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA00869 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:45:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA00837 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:44:58 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 7BOMa11033 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:43:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <761605ea.36c9e673@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:43:15 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: plastic whalebones Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 2/16/99 4:29:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, lynoure@tuug.org writes: << Actually, there are many width-thickness combinations of it. I have only used 10mm x 1mm and 6mm x 2.5mm myself (the former I liked in my Victorian corsets and various bodices, the latter in Elizabethan ones), but there are also many other sizes. (I would have tried more of them, but as the company has 200m minimum, I couldn't afford to.) Yes, the thickest type is difficult to cut. I had to use cutters to cut the thickest type, but sturdy scissors (no, not facric scissors!) worked with the 1mm thick one. >> I want some! Is there any source for this wonderful sounding stuff on my side of the globe? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 17:29:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA16693 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:29:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA02392; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:38:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA11837 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:33:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA11827 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:33:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA08735 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:33:43 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:33:41 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: patch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> One of the things I've never understood/been able to picture about patches is how they physically worked. I had originally heard (Read: potential costuming myth) that they were made of black velvet. The little work I've done with velvet had me imagining little bits of black fluff fraying off all over their pale complexions....and that just didn't seem right! What were patches made of? How did they hold togeather when cut out? How big were they? (thinking of the carriage and four...) How did they stay on? --Emma (who has very little knowledge of this time period, save for one costume dress fondly known as "Pinky") _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 17:30:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA16701 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:30:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA02245; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:37:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA11698 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:32:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f222.hotmail.com [207.82.251.113]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id PAA11639 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:32:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 21773 invoked by uid 0); 16 Feb 1999 22:32:01 -0000 Message-ID: <19990216223201.21772.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.206.84.216 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:32:01 PST X-Originating-IP: [208.206.84.216] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1930s corsets Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:32:01 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" >-Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > >In a message dated 2/16/99 11:32:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, >sylvia@netherworld.com writes: > ><< > A woman on another email list recently found a pink corset dated 1932. > All I recall of the description is that it laces up the front and has > buckles. Since corsets were not widely used by that decade, who might > this kind of one been intended for? Anyone know? > >> > >I'm sure many older women in the '30s did not abandon their corsets....maybe >during the day they did but to "dress up" they might feel wrong without one. >[did your grandmother burn her bra in the '70s?] Remember, it had only been >about 2 decades since corsets were considered "necessary". I've also seen some >heavily boned girdle-like contraptions from the '30s. > My lovable and amply built grandmother, aged 89, still wears something she calls a "corselet," which resembles somewhat the turn-of-the-century Edwardian corset, and does not quite support the bust. (She has a rather large bustline, but is quite used to the droop. Sorry for the graphic picture that probably brought to mind). Made of heavy cotton poplin-type fabric, and plentifully boned, it completely shrounds her from just under the bust to her upper thigh, and has both shoelace-type lacing in the back and three adjustable buckled stays that fasten on either side of her waist to hip area. Once laced to fit, she can put it on & fasten it using either of two vertical rows of small hooks & eyes mounted on heavy tape. She prefers her corselet to either the modern bra or stretchable girdle, and orders one per year from the same company in New York that provided her mother a similar undergarment. Her daughters have never been able to persuade her otherwise, much to their embarrassment when they go shopping and try on clothes. I secretly think she's right, however; elastic and underwires are the bane of my existence. Susannah ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 17:39:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA16784 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:39:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA03913; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:48:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA13647 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:43:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from names.telcom.wvu.edu (names.wvu.edu [157.182.140.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA13640 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:43:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from wvulib1.lib.wvu.edu ([157.182.225.205]) by names.telcom.wvu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/JLF-19981102) with SMTP id RAA29088 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:42:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990216173910.006ae93c@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> X-Sender: khoover@wvnvm.wvnet.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:39:11 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: KATHY HOOVER Subject: Re: H-COST: 1930s corsets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: KATHY HOOVER At 09:22 AM 2/16/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > >A woman on another email list recently found a pink corset dated 1932. >All I recall of the description is that it laces up the front and has >buckles. Since corsets were not widely used by that decade, who might >this kind of one been intended for? Anyone know? >Sylvia R Sylvia, et al, My Grandmother, born in 1896, wore what we would think of as maybe a World War I era corset until she died in 1968. It did not have the bust section, it started at about the midriff and went down to an inch or so below the hip sockets. I remember laces for tightening, hooks and eyes instead of buckles, heavy cotton in a shrimpy-pink color, with garters at the bottom. I can't say for certain if there was any boning, but it seems there was something vertical, probably quilt-stitching. She called it a girdle, not a corset, but it was not stretchy in any way like we'd think of a girdle. I should ask my Mom sometime what she remembers about it. Thirty years is a long time for me to try to remember all the details. But I do remember looking at it in my childhood and thinking ugh. She always wore a hairnet, too. Kathy Hoover _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 18:03:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA17027 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:03:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA08121; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:12:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA18716 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:07:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f170.hotmail.com [207.82.251.56]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id QAA18690 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:07:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 25143 invoked by uid 0); 16 Feb 1999 23:06:42 -0000 Message-ID: <19990216230642.25142.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.206.84.216 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:06:42 PST X-Originating-IP: [208.206.84.216] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1930s corsets Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:06:42 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" >Sylvia, et al, > >My Grandmother, born in 1896, wore what we would think of as maybe a World >War I era corset until she died in 1968. It did not have the bust section, >it started at about the midriff and went down to an inch or so below the >hip sockets. I remember laces for tightening, hooks and eyes instead of >buckles, heavy cotton in a shrimpy-pink color, with garters at the bottom. >I can't say for certain if there was any boning, but it seems there was >something vertical, probably quilt-stitching. She called it a girdle, not >a corset, but it was not stretchy in any way like we'd think of a girdle. >I should ask my Mom sometime what she remembers about it. Thirty years is >a long time for me to try to remember all the details. But I do remember >looking at it in my childhood and thinking ugh. She always wore a hairnet, >too. > >Kathy Hoover > Yes, this sounds very much like the garment my grandmother still wears to this day (see my recent post.) Susannah ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 18:14:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA17067 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:14:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA09950; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:22:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA20869 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:18:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.LCIA.COM (mail.scia.net [207.30.138.60]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA20833 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:17:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from woodenporch.com ([209.26.68.154]) by mail2.LCIA.COM (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52462U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id COM for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:21:44 -0500 Message-ID: <36C9FCE9.E8E44EFF@woodenporch.com> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:19:06 -0500 From: Lois X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: 1930's corsets Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lois I believe that women wore corsets into the 1940's. I remmember my grandmother and great aunt wearing them. They were pink striped and laced up the front and had stays. They did not cinch the waist in but gave a straight silhouette. They were both in their 50's at this time, so maybe corsets were only worn by older women. -- Lois Mueller Wooden Porch Books books@woodenporch.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 18:26:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA17120 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:26:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA12846; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:35:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA23529 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:30:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from names.telcom.wvu.edu (names.wvu.edu [157.182.140.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA23520 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:30:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from wvulib1.lib.wvu.edu ([157.182.225.205]) by names.telcom.wvu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/JLF-19981102) with SMTP id SAA29926 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:30:02 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990216182631.006af01c@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> X-Sender: khoover@wvnvm.wvnet.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:26:31 -0500 To: H-Costume@indra.com From: KATHY HOOVER Subject: H-COST: H-Cost: another question from Ewing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: KATHY HOOVER Hi - Thanks to Margo and Lisaleon for the help on the cache-corset question yesterday. Riding the crest of good luck, I thought I'd ask another one. Ewing also mentions that just at the close of World War I (1918) the British tried to introduce a "National Standard Dress" for women. This garment which had no hooks, eyes, or metal buckles, was to be all things to all people and was intended to be worn for outdoor wear, house wear, rest, tea, dinner, evening, and even a night gown. Needless to say it was never accepted. My question: has anyone ever seen an extant garment or a picture. I'd love to have a further description. Thanks as always, Kathy Hoover _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 18:29:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA17137 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:29:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA13504; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:38:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA24156 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:33:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id QAA24142 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:33:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:33:36 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199902141334.IAA24353@mail.niagara.com> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:38:18 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: 1930s corsets Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > >A woman on another email list recently found a pink corset dated 1932. >All I recall of the description is that it laces up the front and has >buckles. Since corsets were not widely used by that decade, who might >this kind of one been intended for? Anyone know? >Sylvia R > > >Divinity Designs http://www.d-e-designs.com/divinity/ >515 Manhattan Drive, #203 sylvia@netherworld.com >Boulder, CO 80303 USA complete catalog on website > Only about fifteen years ago, I found five or six in a Goodwill in Oakland, CA. They were heavily boned and laced in a weird way, laced on the outside in a second layer of fabric on the back, hooking up the front. By ehavily boned, I mean that the main bones front and center didn't bend between the breasts and high hips. I found out that they were corsets for women who had bad backs, and I shamelessly pillaged the bendable stays and laces for corsets I was making. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 18:49:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA17215 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:49:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA17750; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:58:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA28249 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:53:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from access5.digex.net (qlRW0LpSfu9oE@access5.digex.net [205.197.245.196]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA28227 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:53:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (betsy@localhost) by access5.digex.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id SAA09881 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:52:48 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: access5.digex.net: betsy owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:52:48 -0500 (EST) From: "Betsy R. Delaney" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Swedish FO- described In-Reply-To: <36C9B92E.C8B1BA1D@gte.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Betsy R. Delaney" When I've got the photos back from the Official Photographer, and have them scanned in and html-ized, they will be available at www.Costume-Con.org. I'm presently working on updating the info I have, and I should be posting the con details, committee members, masquerade participants and awards in the next couple of days. You'll be able to find these documents by going to: http://www.Costume-Con.org/whatsnew.html For details about the next CC (18), see: http://www.Costume-Con.org/timeline.html Thanks! -betsy On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Lady Eleanor wrote: > > -Poster: Lady Eleanor > > Greetings Betsy and Judy, > > WOW! I wanna see! I wanna see!! > > I'm sure we'd ALL like to be able to view this wonderful > sounding gown! > Could you please post URL? > > Thanks, > Lady Eleanor > > Betsy R. Delaney wrote: > > > > -Poster: "Betsy R. Delaney" > > > > Oh, dear heaven... > > > > Judy, do you mind if I take this description, or something very like this, > > and put it up with your entry photos when I have them back from Ken > > Warren? > > > > Pictures are pretty, but don't convey everything if you can't step up and > > ask the costumer. > > -- Betsy R. Delaney Webmistress at large Costume-Con(R) Archivist *************************************************************************** betsy@hawkeswood.com or betsy@ability.net http://www.hawkeswood.com/, home of Hawkeswood Designs and http://www.Costume-Con.org/, home of Costume-ConNections *************************************************************************** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 18:59:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA17276 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:59:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA19754; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:08:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA00384 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:03:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA00361 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:03:22 -0700 (MST) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id PSHHa01428; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:02:40 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:02:40 EST To: h-costume@indra.com, ariyana@cats.UCSC.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: plastic whalebones Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com With all this discussion of the "plastic whalebones " going on , I'm not clear on whether people were lumping in the electrical tie-wraps, as well. Some of us have used with very great success electrical cable /tie wraps as an alternative to the plastic stuff in the fabric stores --or to the metal. Electrical cable--or tie wraps come in varying sizes and widths.I like the 5/8 inche wide black ones.They seem to support most people the best.I am a 38 D---and my best friend is a DD, and they hold up very well, indeed.These can be purchased in home improvement centers and electrical supply shops. I hit upon them quite by accident at work some years ago. I work in the telephony industry --and noticed these items being thrown away in the trash at the finish of a new telephone cabling project . A light bulb went off in my head---and I've been using them ever since. Plus the price was right---free!!! cheers ! albra _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 20:05:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA17764 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:05:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA04158; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:14:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA10817 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:09:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA10786 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:09:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from sue.computercrafters.com (pm3frd1-68-78.intrepid.net [206.102.68.78]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA11047 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:09:06 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990216202011.007fc100@intrepid.net> X-Sender: sshatto@intrepid.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:20:11 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sue Shatto Subject: H-COST: Kool Aid Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sue Shatto List, I remember some people on the list talking about using Kool Aid as a cold water dye. What proportion of water did you use for each packet? Thank you! Cordially, Sue Shatto Sue@VictorianMillinery.com http://www.VictorianMillinery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 20:47:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18028 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:47:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA11164; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:56:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA15792 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:52:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA15780 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:52:06 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id VUMJa19751 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:37:59 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:37:59 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Calling Mary La Venture-O/T Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com Mary, I need to reach you to order one of your lovely snoods for a theatrical venture, and my 1997 catalogue only has a fax number. I need to know how quickly it can be shipped. Please e-mail me current info, or just e-mail me off list so we can discuss this. angela lazear _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 20:56:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18080 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:56:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA12946; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:06:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA16807 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:01:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from camel7.mindspring.com (camel7.mindspring.com [207.69.200.57]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA16720 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:00:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (user-37ka9kq.dialup.mindspring.com [207.69.38.154]) by camel7.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA08660 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:00:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <051b01be5a19$3e9b4d00$2c2045cf@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: 1930s corsets Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:00:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Megan McHugh" What company in NY makes this? Do you have an address? -----Original Message----- From: Susannah Eanes To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 5:37 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: 1930s corsets > >-Poster: "Susannah Eanes" > > > > >>-Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com >> >>In a message dated 2/16/99 11:32:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, >>sylvia@netherworld.com writes: >> >><< >> A woman on another email list recently found a pink corset dated 1932. >> All I recall of the description is that it laces up the front and has >> buckles. Since corsets were not widely used by that decade, who might >> this kind of one been intended for? Anyone know? >> >> >> >>I'm sure many older women in the '30s did not abandon their >corsets....maybe >>during the day they did but to "dress up" they might feel wrong without >one. >>[did your grandmother burn her bra in the '70s?] Remember, it had only >been >>about 2 decades since corsets were considered "necessary". I've also >seen some >>heavily boned girdle-like contraptions from the '30s. >> > > >My lovable and amply built grandmother, aged 89, still wears something >she calls a "corselet," which resembles somewhat the turn-of-the-century >Edwardian corset, and does not quite support the bust. (She has a >rather large bustline, but is quite used to the droop. Sorry for the >graphic picture that probably brought to mind). Made of heavy cotton >poplin-type fabric, and plentifully boned, it completely shrounds her >from just under the bust to her upper thigh, and has both shoelace-type >lacing in the back and three adjustable buckled stays that fasten on >either side of her waist to hip area. Once laced to fit, she can put it >on & fasten it using either of two vertical rows of small hooks & eyes >mounted on heavy tape. She prefers her corselet to either the modern >bra or stretchable girdle, and orders one per year from the same company >in New York that provided her mother a similar undergarment. Her >daughters have never been able to persuade her otherwise, much to their >embarrassment when they go shopping and try on clothes. I secretly >think she's right, however; elastic and underwires are the bane of my >existence. > >Susannah > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 21:06:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18135 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:06:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA14646; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:15:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA17875 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:11:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from rainey.blueneptune.com (root@rainey.blueneptune.com [209.133.45.253]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA17838 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:10:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from BlueNeptune.Com (ppp149.blueneptune.com [209.133.45.149]) by rainey.blueneptune.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA27435 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:10:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from BlackCat@BlueNeptune.Com) Message-ID: <36CA2515.414F7FFE@BlueNeptune.Com> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:10:29 -0800 From: "BlackCat =^..^=" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Calling Mary La Venture-O/T References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "BlackCat =^..^=" Oooh. I didn't know you had a catalog. Can I have one? :) MzScahlett@aol.com wrote: > Mary, I need to reach you to order one of your lovely snoods for a theatrical > venture, and my 1997 catalogue only has a fax number. I need to know how > quickly it can be shipped. Please e-mail me current info, or just e-mail me > off list so we can discuss this. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 21:45:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18293 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:45:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA22656; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:55:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA24914 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:50:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA24876 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:50:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.16 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:49:42 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: patch Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:53:45 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be5a20$ddd48ba0$1014ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" They were made of black silk, stuck on with gum arabic. Period accounts frequently mention their use to cover pimples. They were used to cover any skin flaw, or simply to add allure. The picture of the woman with a "coach and four" on her forehead I mentioned earlier was very dilicate and elaborate, like a complex paperschnitten silhouette. It went from her right hairline 3/4 of the way across her forehead, stopping at the middle of the left eyebrow. I'm not making this up! I would compare this one to the temporary tattoos people sport at hockey games myself, but they were worn by "ladies of quality" and town women of many social classes and occupations. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Emma Elizabeth Lehman Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 5:34 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: patch -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> One of the things I've never understood/been able to picture about patches is how they physically worked. I had originally heard (Read: potential costuming myth) that they were made of black velvet. The little work I've done with velvet had me imagining little bits of black fluff fraying off all over their pale complexions....and that just didn't seem right! What were patches made of? How did they hold togeather when cut out? How big were they? (thinking of the carriage and four...) How did they stay on? --Emma (who has very little knowledge of this time period, save for one costume dress fondly known as "Pinky") ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 16 23:30:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA18727 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:30:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA12952; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:39:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA10118 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:34:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.niagara.com (mail.niagara.com [209.5.56.12]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA10103 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:34:21 -0700 (MST) From: kathleen@niagara.com Received: from kathleen.niagara.com (dialup-90.niagara.com [209.5.59.90]) by mail.niagara.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA08389 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:34:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:34:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902170434.XAA08389@mail.niagara.com> X-Sender: kathleen@mail.niagara.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Scottish words (OT) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kathleen@niagara.com >The velar fricatives? The velar fricatives? What are the velar fricatives? >Can you eat them? Do they hurt? Is it safe to be in one room with them? Och, if ye can say it's a braw, bricht, moon-licht nicht then yer aw' richt, ye ken! (It didn't hurt much, but I'm not sure if it was safe to be in the room with me at the time..) Kathleen () _/)(\_ "Tehee!" quod she, and clapte the wyndow to /~~\ /____\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 00:53:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA19788 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:53:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA22999; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:01:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA18745 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:56:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA18736 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:56:49 -0700 (MST) From: EofAshley@aol.com Received: from EofAshley@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id SIETa26290 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:55:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:55:10 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: H-COST: Re: Scottish words (OT) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: EofAshley@aol.com Did ye have ta mop doon after that one, lass? Karla %:-) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 01:31:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA20125 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 01:31:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA26446; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:39:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA22208 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:34:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from dub-img-11.compuserve.com (dub-img-11.compuserve.com [149.174.206.141]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA22201 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:34:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-11.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id BAA19673 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 01:33:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 01:33:36 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Steel or plastic? To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199902170133_MC2-6AB8-C2E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id BAA20125 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson Have you tried the spiral steel boneing ?, I use those for my 18th C corsets and they are extreemly comfortable Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 02:09:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA03562 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 02:09:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA28737; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:19:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA24966 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:14:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.gte.net (mail1.gte.net [207.115.153.32]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA24954 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:14:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from gte.net (1Cust166.tnt1.everett2.wa.da.uu.net [153.35.253.166]) by mail1.gte.net with ESMTP id BAA06028 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 01:15:20 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36CA6B76.A53A6701@gte.net> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:10:46 -0800 From: Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Steel or plastic? References: <19990216213511.16743.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre Greetings Susannah! I've been meaning to try this myself. I'll try this wider type after I finish my current project. I am working on new late 16th c. Elizabethan corset, and I'm making it from heavy Belgian linen, hand-stitched with genuine linen (20/2...which is a little thick, but best I could find), lined in linen, and covered with silk, and hand-made lacing holes. I'm using ossiers (reeds) as is shown in Arnold, Patterns of Fashion. The book has photos of an existing period corset where each channel is filled with between 20 and 24 individual reeds. I did a mock of this type, and find it a great deal more supportive and comfortable than my double spring steel boned number....and it is perfectly period! :-) Just my two groats worth... In service, Eleanor, Lady Leycestershyre Susannah Eanes wrote: snipped We cut wood boning from two types of cane --the > type you buy for $7.00 or so per 30 to 50 foot package for weaving > baskets. The 5/8 to 3/4 -inch width with one rounded, one flat side is > great for larger persons, it is flexible enough to bend yet is very > strong. > > Susannah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 03:40:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA10293 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:40:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA04296; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 01:49:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA00553 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 01:44:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.gte.net (smtp1.gte.net [207.115.153.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA00547 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 01:44:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from gte.net (1Cust166.tnt1.everett2.wa.da.uu.net [153.35.253.166]) by smtp1.gte.net with ESMTP id CAA23426 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 02:44:20 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36CA80B8.6F86BAF8@gte.net> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:41:28 -0800 From: Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Steel or plastic? References: <199902170133_MC2-6AB8-C2E@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre No I haven't...I'd like to get/stay away from steel if possible, as I don't want rust ruining my needlework...and, I just haven't figured out a really trick way of making them removeable. Not a problem with my spanish farthingale...but the corset is a different matter. :-) I've seen the spiral steel, in catalogs, and often wondered. I trying to get to a more "authentic" place with my costuming. :-) Therefore, the ossiers. Have yet to lay hands on any whalebone...plastic, or otherwise. :-> -Eleanor (This was directed towards me, yes? Or was it? If not...sorry. :-) Melanie Wilson wrote: > > -Poster: Melanie Wilson > > Have you tried the spiral steel boneing ?, I use those for my 18th C > corsets and they are extreemly comfortable > > Mel > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 04:40:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA10541 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 04:40:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA07883; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 02:50:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA03293 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 02:45:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from crius.flash.net (crius.flash.net [209.30.0.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA03288 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 02:45:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p139.amax3.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.64.139]) by crius.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA01984 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:45:17 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36CA7E02.9E3CAD8E@flash.net> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 02:29:55 -0600 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: surviving bliaut? References: <199902151837.TAA29272@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Charlene Charette Henk 't Jong wrote: > Will you keep us posted? It's a very curious statement; lettering in a > bliaut. It looks suspiciously like the Kufic inscription in the border of > the silk crowning mantle of Roger II of Sicily (dated 1133), which is kept > in.... The Kunsthistorisches Museum in Wien. > > Has somebody made a mistake? That was my first thought -- is it really a bliaut? I wasn't aware that there were any existing. When I was still on Compuserve I "met" a lady living in Vienna. I had a few questions about Roger's mantle and she kindly stopped by and had a look for me. She even sent me a postcard of his gloves. > (who is not impressed with Joan Evans' work; alright for her time, but in > most parts overtaken by recent research) The older books are good to pick up at the library when they have lots of photos. I usually just skim the text and this caught my eye. She also had a footnoted reference to a period source describing the removal of the mantle when in the presence of a noble. I had heard this before, but with no documentation. Now I have a reference that I can look up. --Charlene -- The discontent of the people is more dangerous to a monarch than all the might of his enemies on the battlefield. -- Isabella d'Este _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 05:12:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA10662 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:12:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA09318; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:21:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA04977 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:16:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.gmx.net (qmailr@mail2.gmx.net [195.63.104.62]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id DAA04970 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:16:30 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902171016.DAA04970@indra.com> Received: (qmail 31955 invoked by uid 0); 17 Feb 1999 10:16:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jacomo) (203.216.65.95) by mail2.gmx.net with SMTP; 17 Feb 1999 10:16:25 -0000 X-Sender: marquise_de_pompadour@gmx.net@pop.gmx.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:14:29 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pompadour Subject: H-COST: 1880s skirt drapery Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Pompadour hi list, i'm planning to make a late 1880s bustle dress, so i'd like to buy the fabric when i'm in singapore next month (the silk is just so cheap there!). now i don't know a thing about a skirt drapery was made. being far from home i don't have any of the books at hand to look it up, and i doubt they would tell me all i need to know if i had. i have only a sketch of the drapery pattern. according to it, it's about a metre wide and 3.5 metres long and completely asymmetric. am i looking at half of the pattern, or is the drapery really supposed to be asymmetric - and 7 (seven!) metres long? as for the draping tecxhnique: i honly have a numberof little x'es and dots to mark the folds. does anybody on this list know enough about draperies to interpret it and maybe even imagine what the finished drapery would look like? the illustration of the finished garment is missing as well. ciao, yo marquise_de_pompadour@gmx.net - www.costumegallery.com/pompadour/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 07:22:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA16453 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:22:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA14996; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:32:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA10600 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:27:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from rmx07.globecomm.net (rmx07.iname.net [165.251.8.75]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA10586 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:27:09 -0700 (MST) From: sue-historian@writeme.com Received: from weba1.iname.net by rmx07.globecomm.net (8.9.1/8.8.0) with ESMTP id HAA13714 ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:27:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (from root@localhost) by weba1.iname.net (8.9.1a/8.9.2.Alpha2) id HAA17702; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:27:07 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <9902170727061T.14600@weba1.iname.net> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:27:06 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: The *necessity* of 1930s corsets Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: sue-historian@writeme.com In a recent posting AlbertCat@aol.com wrote >I’m sure many older women in the ‘30s did not abandon their >corsets....maybe during the day they did but to “dress up” they might feel >wrong without one. [did your grandmother burn her bra in the ‘70s?] >Remember, it had only been about 2 decades since corsets were >considered “necessary”. I agree, if you look at mail order catalogues for the 1920s and 30s there are corsets pictured which are well boned, laced and busked. There was no desire for the small waist, the aim was an ironing board flat stomach and to be generally well held in. In the 20s it was only the very fashionable (or unfashionable) women who went without corsets. Besides the shape there was, as another post mentioned, the "support" aspect. There was a widely held opinion that female stomach muscles were so weak that if left uncorseted terrible things might happen to your insides. Also there was the "respectable" aspect - loose women etc. Even 1930 garter belts were boned and fastened with hooks and eyes. Sue ---------------------------------------------------------------- Get your free email from AltaVista at http://altavista.iname.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 07:39:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA16539 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:39:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA15753; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:48:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA11440 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:43:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA11435 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:43:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) id <01J7ULFATM9C00J1P6@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:45:45 GMT Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) with ESMTP id <01J7ULAU3H1400HIJR@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:58:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.43); Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:56:03 +0000 (GMT0BST) Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.43); Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:55:54 +0000 (GMT0BST) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:55:50 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: H-COST: plastic whalebones In-reply-to: <199902162208.PAA06531@indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <148F0905769@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Teddy > - -Poster: > The plastic boning some people are talking about is fairly new, and > I believe comes from Germany. It is very thick, about 1/8". It is > very stiff and looks like it could stop bullets. It seems to be > stiffer than the steel bones, and might be better suited for hoops > & farthingales rather than corsers. I hear it is also difficult to > cut. I have a couple of rolls of this, but haven't actually *used* any yet (I must get that 18th C corset finished!). The thicker stuff seems about the same flexibility as the flat steels I've used, the thinner stuff is slightly more flexible. I found it very easy to cut. The thinner needs only scissors and the thicker, I scored heavily with a Stanley Knife then it snapped neatly along the sore-line. The corners can be rounded by cutting or sanding. Hope this helps Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 08:15:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA16693 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:15:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA17565; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:25:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA13526 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:20:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net [199.45.39.157]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA13491 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:19:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from stassja.bellatlantic.net (client-125-45.bellatlantic.net [151.198.125.45]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA20081 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:21:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990217081821.0073bf70@postoffice3.bellatlantic.net> X-Sender: stassja@postoffice3.bellatlantic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:18:23 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: "Mariea M. Goodinson-Dillenkofer" Subject: H-COST: plastic boning Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Mariea M. Goodinson-Dillenkofer" I prefer plastic boning to steel. The stuff I get is actually stiffer than the steel but not brittle. Easier to care for the garments - no fear of rust creeping through any type of coating on steel. I bought some steel boning to experiment with but it's still in the bag from when I bought it. I keep telling myself I'll use it sometime but I haven't been willing to give up the ease of using the plastic boning yet. ;) I'm about 5'5, 140lbs and a 36C and have no problems with support with the plastic boning. I put it in the front, about every inch and occasionally put some in the back for a smooth silhouette. I don't make my corsets with a busk in front but I would imagine that would tame even the stubbornest curves. Actually, the plastic stuff I use comes in a roll from a company called Endsdown Enterprises. I had to buy a 100yd minimum but it's way better than anything I've found in stores and, as I said, stiffer than the steel but with plenty of spring. It was around 40 cents a yard at the time (2 years ago), if memory serves me. The plastic is fused to the fabric covering so you don't have slipping & sliding either. In the Renaissance, we might've used whalebone (actually baleen) or reeds and I've found the plastic makes a nice approximation to those. :) Just my 2 cents, Rie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 08:24:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA16724 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:24:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA18368; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:34:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA14199 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:28:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from ash.shu.ac.uk (pp@ash.shu.ac.uk [143.52.2.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA14139 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:28:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from ntlupus.shu.ac.uk by ash.shu.ac.uk with inbound ESMTP (local); Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:56:32 +0000 Received: by ntlupus.shu.ac.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BE5A75.0985A6E0@ntlupus.shu.ac.uk>; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:57:13 -0000 Message-ID: From: "Chandler, Sally" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: plastic whalebones Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:59:44 -0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 46 TEXT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Chandler, Sally" I agree with Teddy. I have made a couple of corsets from the German stuff and it seems ideal - I'm told it is as close to the properties of real whalebone as anything can be, provided you use the same thickness as the originals were. It doesn't bow out over my rather round tummy and holds me upright after a full day selling cloth at the Re-enactors Faire. I don't have any problems cutting it and the ends can be sanded to stop sharp edges digging in. Sally Ann -----Original Message----- From: Teddy [SMTP:Teddy@mdx.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 11:56 AM To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: plastic whalebones -Poster: Teddy > - -Poster: > The plastic boning some people are talking about is fairly new, and > I believe comes from Germany. It is very thick, about 1/8". It is > very stiff and looks like it could stop bullets. It seems to be > stiffer than the steel bones, and might be better suited for hoops > & farthingales rather than corsers. I hear it is also difficult to > cut. I have a couple of rolls of this, but haven't actually *used* any yet (I must get that 18th C corset finished!). The thicker stuff seems about the same flexibility as the flat steels I've used, the thinner stuff is slightly more flexible. I found it very easy to cut. The thinner needs only scissors and the thicker, I scored heavily with a Stanley Knife then it snapped neatly along the sore-line. The corners can be rounded by cutting or sanding. Hope this helps Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 08:34:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA16761 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:34:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA19300; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:43:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA14931 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:38:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA14922 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:38:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.37] (ell53.acadia.net [205.217.218.37]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA25248 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:38:35 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:38:50 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: corsets Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Go rent Radio Days (Woody Allen movie from the 1980s) -- takes place just as WWII is breaking out. There's a great scene of the central character's grandmother being squeezed into her corset. They were still being worn. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 09:35:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16967 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:35:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA25100; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:44:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA24439 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:39:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA24427 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:39:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.199.94]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id GAA01252; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:39:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id GAA28906; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:39:20 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAuAhUAqhaAav1u1pfX1UMvyLLnN35v/ucCFQCVcjg4//tHM7T+eD/l6ouHP5Y/FQ== From: CDepner26@webtv.net (Harold Hensley) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:39:20 -0500 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Ossiers Message-ID: <16538-36CAD498-200@mailtod-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: CDepner26@webtv.net (Harold Hensley) I am also interested in making an Elizabethan corset and would like to know if anyone could give me the name of suppliers of ossiers. I would also like to know how you would launder the corset once the ossiers are inserted. Melissa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 10:33:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA17204 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:33:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA02732; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:43:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA06576 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:37:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from send205.yahoomail.com (send205.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.129]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id IAA06568 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:37:47 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990217153812.22374.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Received: from [194.168.181.13] by send205.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:38:12 PST Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:38:12 -0800 (PST) From: Anne Foote Subject: H-COST: Re: 1930 corsets To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Anne Foote A recent post on 1930 corsets mentioned the necessity of corsets. I remember an aunt, in the sixties telling my mother that at the age of 15 I should wear a proper corset rather than a roll on. I think she saw roll ons as inadequate support for the young figure. My aunt was well corseted, but not wasp waisted. I seem to remember that even as a well built middle aged woman with middle age spread she had no tummy protrusion - she was ironing board flat ! Some of those 1930s corsets had an additional underbelt - boned and hook and eyes, which went across the tum - I''ve seen the pictures. Why ? The corsets looked quite strong enough to me ! Anne _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 10:52:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA17322 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:52:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA06005; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:02:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA09737 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:56:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from morgoth.tuug.org (root@morgoth.tuug.org [130.232.72.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA09645 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:56:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from shodan.yok.utu.fi ([130.232.128.27] HELO shodan ident: NO-IDENT-SERVICE [port 10756]) by tuug.org with SMTP id <40896-27534>; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:55:33 +0200 From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" Organization: Lyninine Federation To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:56:26 +2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: plastic whalebones X-Confirm-Reading-To: lynoure@tuug.org X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <761605ea.36c9e673@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990217155533Z40896-27534+109@tuug.org> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" On 16 Feb 99, at 16:43, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > I want some! Is there any source for this wonderful sounding stuff on my side > of the globe? Farthingale Fabrics in Canada sells two sizes of it: 10mm x 1mm and 7mm x 1mm. Their homepage can be found at http://www.fathingale.on.ca -- -------(c) 1999--------------* lynoure@tuug.org * Ella Lynoure Rajamaki--------* http://www.tuug.org/~lynoure * _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 11:38:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA17477 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:38:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA14629; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:47:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA19250 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:42:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA19199; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:42:19 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:42:19 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902171642.JAA19199@indra.com> From: "Stayce V. Mehard" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Chinese foot-binding Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Stayce V. Mehard" There is an excellant resource for persons interested in factual data regarding Cinese Footbinding of women. The book, "Splendid Slippers" should provide answers to any and all questions on the practice. It is currently in print. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 11:38:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA17481 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:38:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA14350; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:46:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA18869 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:41:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA18850; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:40:56 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:40:56 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902171640.JAA18850@indra.com> From: "Hope A. Greenberg" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: plastic whalebones Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope A. Greenberg" In Arnold's Pattern's of Fashion 1560-1620, p. 46, she shows a corset that uses bents (reeds) as the stiffener. Has anyone made a similar corset, perhaps using broomstraw? ----------------- hope.greenberg@uvm.edu, U of Vermont, http://www.uvm.edu/~hag _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 11:46:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA17515 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:46:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA15307; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:51:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA20522 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:45:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA20504; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:45:44 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:45:44 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902171645.JAA20504@indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Yoshiwara Subject: Re: H-COST: plastic whalebones - a word of clarification Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Yoshiwara i never thought my innocent ordering would break loose an avalanche about a topic i thought was well worn. anyway, i think i should throw my own 2 yen= in. the plastic boning the original poster asked about is probably the stuff aquazoo@patriot.net described: >=A0=A0=A0=A0 The plastic boning some people are talking about is fairly= new, and=20 >I believe comes from Germany. It is very thick, about 1/8". It is very=20 >stiff and looks like it could stop bullets. It seems to be stiffer than=20 >the steel bones, and might be better suited for hoops & farthingales=20 >rather than corsers. I hear it is also difficult to cut. it has nothing at all to do with rigilene. as lyn has already pointed out, it comes in various sizes, from 1 mm x 4 mm via 1x5, 1x6, 1x10, 1.5x12 and= so on. the latter is so stiff you can use it as a walking-stick. well, not really, but you get the drift. ;) the 1x10 variety worked fine for me in 17th and 18th century corsets. i put= in a bone every 1-4 cm, depending on how stiff i want it. maybe i should also mention that i am not on the skinny side. :)=A0=20 i've also used steel spirals once, but i found them flimsy by comparison.= they bend more easily, but for the straight lines of pre-victorian corsets, i= like the rigidity of the plastic better. rigilene has the advantage of bending sideways, so i think it would be good for the horizontal boning in 18th century corsets. i have yet to try it, though.= =20 and lastly, about cutting the plastic boning: at least you *can* cut it to= the length you need.=20 how do people do that with steel? i use a paper or carpet cutter to deeply scratch the surface on one side, then bend until it breaks exactly along the scratch. then i often cut the ends round with that kind of tongs you use for cutting wire, what are they called? ciao, yo Yours, etc, Yoshiwara, M.A. (Unseen University), AKA=20 His Excellency, etc, the Minister of Silly Walks (Ms), Mistress of the Costume Ring, Couturi=E8re to the=20 Marquise de Pompadour http://www.costumegallery.com/pompa dour http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/4440 http://www.geocities.com/Paris/4432 =20 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 11:51:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA17534 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:51:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA17129; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:00:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA23688 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:55:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f36.hotmail.com [207.82.250.47]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id JAA23668 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:55:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 26367 invoked by uid 0); 17 Feb 1999 16:54:57 -0000 Message-ID: <19990217165457.26366.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.206.84.216 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:54:57 PST X-Originating-IP: [208.206.84.216] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1930s corsets Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:54:57 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" >-Poster: "Megan McHugh" > >What company in NY makes this? Do you have an address? > >>-Poster: "Susannah Eanes" >>>sylvia@netherworld.com writes: >>> >>><< >>> A woman on another email list recently found a pink corset dated 1932. >> >>My lovable and amply built grandmother, aged 89, still wears something >>she calls a "corselet," She prefers her corselet to either the modern >>bra or stretchable girdle, and orders one per year from the same company >>in New York that provided her mother a similar undergarment. >>Susannah >> Grandmother used to order from Sears, then from the old "Pueblo" company, then from "some corset company in New York." The old "Pueblo" comapny quit carrying them, but forwarded her request on to this new company. She is looking the name of the company up and I will post to the list as soon as she finds it, probably this afternoon. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 12:02:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17584 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:02:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA18801; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:11:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA26579 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:05:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA26549 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:05:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA11929 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:05:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36CAF70E.A7FE0664@serv.net> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:06:22 -0800 From: Merouda the True X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: The *necessity* of 1930s corsets References: <9902170727061T.14600@weba1.iname.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True > Besides the shape there was, as another post mentioned, the "support" aspect. There was a widely held opinion that female stomach muscles were so weak that if left uncorseted terrible things might happen to your insides. Also there was the "respectable" aspect - loose women etc. Not just a females. My father's entire family were forced by their father to wear corsets based on this opinion, boys and girls alike. My uncle finally said NO! Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 12:04:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17597 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:04:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA19174; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:14:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA27310 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:08:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA27301 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:08:51 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 7TFYa01428 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:08:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <258b581c.36caf772@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:08:02 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Scottish words (OT) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com I know all this is OT..... but also very amusing. The only Scottish dialect I can ever recall is from "The Simpsons".... when Willy auditions for Homer's singing group with that famous Petula Clark hit "Doon Toon"! Besides, who doesn't know that there is nothing sexier that a Scottish accent? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 12:18:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17644 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:18:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA21074; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:27:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA00789 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:22:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA00780 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:22:17 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 3APLa00811 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:17:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7e8d8a0.36caf9b0@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:17:36 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 1880s skirt drapery Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 2/17/99 5:17:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, marquise_de_pompadour@gmx.net writes: << as for the draping tecxhnique: i honly have a numberof little x'es and dots to mark the folds. does anybody on this list know enough about draperies to interpret it and maybe even imagine what the finished drapery would look like? the illustration of the finished garment is missing as well. >> The key word here is "drapery". The pattern is just a general outline. To get it "right" you simply have to drape it on a dummy. Buy more than enough fabric & then you will have room to play. And, yes, many 1880s bustles are asymetrical. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 12:38:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17737 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:38:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA24238; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:46:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA05897 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:41:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from dub-img-11.compuserve.com (dub-img-11.compuserve.com [149.174.206.141]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA05889 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:41:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-11.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id MAA17666 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:40:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:39:42 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Steel spiral boning To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199902171240_MC2-6AD2-A5B9@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id MAA17737 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson I thought the need was for later garb, not your period ! Eleanor , Oh well, they don't rust by the way Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 12:51:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17803 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:51:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA26574; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:00:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA09879 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:55:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA09869; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:55:37 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:55:37 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902171755.KAA09869@indra.com> From: Sally Norton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Great Pattern Review Update Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sally Norton The Great Pattern Review has been updated. Many of you have contributed reviews and photos. We are extremely appreciative of your participation. The GPR is an ongoing project of the Greater Bay Area Costumer's Guild. Visit the GBACG website and click on Great Pattern Review: http://www.toreadors.com/costume We now have reviews of 170 different patterns. More will continue to be added. We've also added many photographs. All of us that work on the pattern review hope you find it useful. We invite you to contribute your reviews. With the cost of patterns continuing to rise, we can all help each other by sharing our knowledge. Thank you all for your interest in the pattern review. Sally Norton GBACG Events Coordinator _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 13:00:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA17894 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:00:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA27893; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:09:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA10821 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:58:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA10724 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:58:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA12307 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:01:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14360 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:59:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:59:51 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Ossiers In-Reply-To: <16538-36CAD498-200@mailtod-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed You can find osiers, or lengths of willow, at many basketry supply stores. Ask for willow caning. Actually, from what I've heard, using bunches of smaller reeds (rather like broom straw) bound together and inserted into channels of the corset is the most documentable type of stiffening, plus it's firm yet flexible enough so that it provides comfortable, breathable support yet won't snap and break like stiffer caning can. As I haven't tried it myself, perhaps other people on the list can provide first-hand information on both types of corset boning. I have a couple of sources for osiers listed on the web at http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/farthingale/materials.html Good luck, Drea > > -Poster: CDepner26@webtv.net (Harold Hensley) > > I am also interested in making an Elizabethan corset and would like to > know if anyone could give me the name of suppliers of ossiers. I would > also like to know how you would launder the corset once the ossiers are > inserted. > > Melissa > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 13:27:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA18127 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:27:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA02444; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:35:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA17832 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:29:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id LAA17822 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:29:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 13892 invoked from network); 17 Feb 1999 18:34:56 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-208.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.208) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 17 Feb 1999 18:34:56 -0000 Message-ID: <36CB302F.1BCF@mc.net> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:10:08 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Polish costume References: <199902170211.TAA17891@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law There is a posting on the alt.history.costuming newsgroup asking for a picture of the traditional Polish wedding dress and headdress. Can anyone suggest a good place to find one? Carol Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 13:42:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA18235 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:42:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA05197; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:49:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA20731 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:44:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA20583 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:44:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p20.directcon.net [206.170.184.69]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA28619 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:37:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:37:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902171837.KAA28619@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: plastic whalebones Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >I want some! Is there any source for this wonderful sounding stuff on my side >of the globe? > Me too! If the only way to get it is to buy a LOT, maybe we could all get together and split an order? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 13:47:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA18284 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:47:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA06000; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:54:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA21484 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:49:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA21453 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:49:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p20.directcon.net [206.170.184.69]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA29414 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:42:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:42:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902171842.KAA29414@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: patch Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson > What were patches made of? I Stage Makeup, richard Corson says they were made of black taffeta or Spanish leather, usually red, or sometimes of gummed paper. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 14:00:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18373 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:00:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA08326; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:08:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA24243 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:03:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA24210 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:02:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA28486 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:02:09 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp181-7.worldonline.nl [195.241.181.7]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03972 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:01:59 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902171901.UAA03972@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Scottish words (OT) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:44:16 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, > >The velar fricatives? The velar fricatives? What are the velar fricatives? > >Can you eat them? Do they hurt? Is it safe to be in one room with them? > > Och, if ye can say it's a braw, bricht, moon-licht nicht then yer aw' > richt, ye ken! I could say this!!!! And it sounded pretty authentic too!!! So we Dutch and Scots must sound about the same to you... > > (It didn't hurt much, but I'm not sure if it was safe to be in the room with > me at the time..) > I can imagine the room getting a wee bit more damp...:-) Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 14:00:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18376 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:00:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA08274; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:08:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA24237 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:02:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA24194 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:02:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA28531 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:02:15 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp181-7.worldonline.nl [195.241.181.7]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA04069 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:02:12 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902171902.UAA04069@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Scottish words (OT) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:01:03 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, > I know all this is OT..... but also very amusing. The only Scottish dialect I > can ever recall is from "The Simpsons".... when Willy auditions for Homer's > singing group with that famous Petula Clark hit "Doon Toon"! > Besides, who doesn't know that there is nothing sexier that a Scottish > accent? How about Sean Connery? For a really excruciatingly scottish dialect listen to people from Glasgow. And for a really phony one: Mel Gibson in Braveheart. I laughed my head of during that film anyway... Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 14:09:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18436 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:09:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA09952; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:17:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA25935 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:12:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail3.austin.rr.com (fe3.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA25889 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:12:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from cs63-200.austin.rr.com ([24.93.63.200]) by mail3.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:02:26 -0600 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: plastic whalebones Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:20:28 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <36cb162c.97739200@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <19990217155533Z40896-27534+109@tuug.org> In-Reply-To: <19990217155533Z40896-27534+109@tuug.org> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id OAA18436 Status: O -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) the url for the bones page at farthingales is this: http://www.farthingales.on.ca/bones.htm It's illustrated now. I'm probably going to order some:) Margery -----rio@austin.rr.com---Goddess of Last Minute Miracles--- "We went out with both lips blazing, and a pen in either hand..." - the Flash Girls -{*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*}- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 14:17:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18465 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:17:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA08459; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:08:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA24333 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:03:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA24195 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:02:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA28493 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:02:10 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc2 (vp181-7.worldonline.nl [195.241.181.7]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA04013 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:02:05 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902171902.UAA04013@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: surviving bliaut? Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:56:28 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi: I'm not impressed with Joan Evans' work; alright for her time, but in > > most parts overtaken by recent research) > > The older books are good to pick up at the library when they have lots of > photos. I usually just skim the text and this caught my eye. She also had a > footnoted reference to a period source describing the removal of the mantle > when in the presence of a noble. I had heard this before, but with no > documentation. Now I have a reference that I can look up. You can't go far wrong with a period quote and footnote, but here also caution is neccessary. If a writer quotes out of context, leaves certain, maybe crucial, bits out, or if the quote is a quote from another quote, which might be suspect, you can be put on the wrong foot easily. This is not to say that you can't trust anybody or any quote, but it helps to get to know primary sources (which can be translated wrong, too!!!!) or trustworthy historians. I don't trust the late Dr. Evans that much, because she sometimes argues cases on too little evidence and does not trust her eyes too much. This is a very common defect with art-histerians. I know she wasn't a real art-histerian but a medievist with strong art influences, but she sounds like one. Can you tell I distrust art-histerians? Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 14:33:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18549 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:33:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA13406; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:40:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA00329 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:35:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f56.hotmail.com [207.82.251.68]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA00313 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:35:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 18232 invoked by uid 0); 17 Feb 1999 19:34:45 -0000 Message-ID: <19990217193445.18231.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.206.84.216 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:34:45 PST X-Originating-IP: [208.206.84.216] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Grandma's Corset Company Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:34:45 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" >-Poster: "Megan McHugh" > >What company in NY makes this? Do you have an address? > >>-Poster: "Susannah Eanes" >>>sylvia@netherworld.com writes: >>> >>><< >>> A woman on another email list recently found a pink corset dated 1932. >> >>My lovable and amply built grandmother, aged 89, still wears something >>she calls a "corselet," She prefers her corselet to either the modern >>bra or stretchable girdle, and orders one per year from the same company >>in New York that provided her mother a similar undergarment. >>Susannah >> Grandmother used to order from Sears, then from the old "Pueblo" company, then from "some corset company in New York." The old "Pueblo" comapny quit carrying them, but forwarded her request on to this new company. She is looking the name of the company up and I will post to the list as soon as she finds it, probably this afternoon. The name of the corset company is: Cortland Corset Co., Inc. PO B 546 Cortland, NY 13045 (607) 756-7566 She read this to me from a flyer that is 2 years old, so verify the area code before you use it. The model she uses is the "All-In-One" corselet, which you use with the old garter-type stockings. Hope this helps! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 14:49:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18610 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:49:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA15863; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:55:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA02998 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:50:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA02988 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:50:27 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id PTUZa07784 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:49:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <98349f23.36cb1d4d@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:49:33 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: corsets Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 2/17/99 05:39:15 Pacific Standard Time, pulliam@acadia.net writes: << Since corsets were not widely used by that decade, who might this kind of one been intended for? Anyone know?>> >> Corsets were actually worn well into the 30s. I've got tons of pics of them in catalogues. They were not as tight and kinda turning into a full length- brassiere, but they were time period appropriate. angil _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 16:53:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA19357 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:53:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA10826; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:58:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA23728 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:53:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.gte.net (mail1.gte.net [207.115.153.32]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA23696 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:53:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from gte.net (1Cust246.tnt5.everett2.wa.da.uu.net [208.252.42.246]) by mail1.gte.net with ESMTP id PAA11594 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:54:13 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36CB396E.6473519B@gte.net> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:49:34 -0800 From: Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Ossiers References: <16538-36CAD498-200@mailtod-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre Greetings, I buy my ossiers at Craft Mart. I should think that any large craft store, or one that sells supply to basket weavers would carry them. :-) Sorry I can't be more specific. As to washing...even for a basket weaver to use the reeds, which come fairly tightly coiled, it is necessary to soak them in water to make them pliable. I did the same with mine and then hung the hank to dry mor uniformly straight...although they still retain a slight curve, which I anticipate will disappear with wear. At any rate...I plan on washing my corset by hand, then hang to dry. The water will not hurt the reeds...the linen and silk are pre-washed for just this purpose. Hope this helps. In service, Lady Eleanor Harold Hensley wrote: > > -Poster: CDepner26@webtv.net (Harold Hensley) > > I am also interested in making an Elizabethan corset and would like to > know if anyone could give me the name of suppliers of ossiers. I would > also like to know how you would launder the corset once the ossiers are > inserted. > > Melissa > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 16:57:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA19373 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:57:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA11991; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:04:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA24842 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:58:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.gte.net (mail1.gte.net [207.115.153.32]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA24819 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:58:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from gte.net (1Cust246.tnt5.everett2.wa.da.uu.net [208.252.42.246]) by mail1.gte.net with ESMTP id PAA00288 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:59:56 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36CB3AC5.66EF261E@gte.net> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:55:17 -0800 From: Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: plastic whalebones References: <199902171640.JAA18850@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre I'm making the very one in Arnold, now. Broomstraw? Hmmm...interesting thought...the only thing that comes to mind is that broomstraw is rather more brittle than reeds, and not as long. Just my take. ;-) Eleanor Hope A. Greenberg wrote: > > -Poster: "Hope A. Greenberg" > > In Arnold's Pattern's of Fashion 1560-1620, p. 46, she shows a corset that > uses bents (reeds) as the stiffener. Has anyone made a similar corset, > perhaps using broomstraw? > > ----------------- > hope.greenberg@uvm.edu, U of Vermont, http://www.uvm.edu/~hag > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 18:36:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA19744 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:36:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA02119; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:38:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA12716 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:33:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from oly.silverlink.net (root@oly.silverlink.net [209.20.168.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA12670 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:33:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from cvntlale (silver170-69.silverlink.net [209.20.170.69]) by oly.silverlink.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA20268 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:38:04 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990217131459.0069728c@silverlink.net> X-Sender: tsuruko@silverlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:14:59 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: debbie strub Subject: Re: H-COST: Chinese foot-binding In-Reply-To: <199902171642.JAA19199@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: debbie strub Greetings, Do you have an author, ISBN, etc. on "Splendid Slippers"? It sounds interesting. Another good book on this subject is "Chinese Footbinding" by Howard S. Levy. It was out of print for a while but I think it may have recently been re-issued. Deb At 09:42 AM 2/17/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Stayce V. Mehard" > > >There is an excellant resource for persons interested in >factual data regarding Cinese Footbinding of women. The >book, "Splendid Slippers" should provide answers to any and >all questions on the practice. It is currently in print. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 18:50:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA19815 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:50:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA05710; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:00:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA16418 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:55:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA16384 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:54:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.218.82] (ell98.acadia.net [205.217.218.82]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA10968 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:54:46 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:55:02 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: stiffening/stays Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) << using bunches of smaller reeds (rather like broom straw) bound together and inserted into channels of the corset>> This is the way Queen E's is done (the one from the effigy in Westminster Abbey). It has been confirmed that it was a used/worn set of stays; i.e. from QE's wardrobe, not simply made for the effigy. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 19:01:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA19897 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:01:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA08128; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:09:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA18206 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:04:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA18190 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:04:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailtod-281.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-281.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.199.93]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id QAA06292; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:04:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-281.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id QAA07521; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:04:32 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhQjKuqZENNq81NsYTPccQwMnVCYlQIVAKPSK4gT+V4qZ3UImFPHisjwL5H9 From: CDepner26@webtv.net (Harold Hensley) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:04:32 -0500 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: stiffening/stays Message-ID: <23483-36CB5910-930@mailtod-281.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam)'s message of Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:55:02 -0500 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: CDepner26@webtv.net (Harold Hensley) Are the smaller reeds also available though basketry suppliers? Melissa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 20:32:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA20237 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:32:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA24441; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:42:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA29733 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:36:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA29722 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:36:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D3PZJSKP; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:36:04 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Washing corsets, stays, etc. Message-ID: <19980922.130857.5351.0.kayherb@juno.com> References: <16538-36CAD498-200@mailtod-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,7-13,15-31 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:36:04 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" Try laying it in the bottom of the tub when you shower. Walk on it as you shower and rinse. It's much easier on it than trying to put it through the washer (horrors!). I'd imagine that it's better to take it out once you've washed your hair as the shampoo is kinder to the fabric than a hard soap would be. Works for me! After all -- how often do you need to launder one? Kay Herb kayherb@juno.com On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:39:20 -0500 (EST) CDepner26@webtv.net (Harold Hensley) writes: > >-Poster: CDepner26@webtv.net (Harold Hensley) > >I am also interested in making an Elizabethan corset and would like to >know if anyone could give me the name of suppliers of ossiers. I >would >also like to know how you would launder the corset once the ossiers >are >inserted. > >Melissa > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 22:40:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20697 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:40:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA17680; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:49:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA13827 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:44:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA13816 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:43:57 -0700 (MST) From: EofAshley@aol.com Received: from EofAshley@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id IKNLa20088 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:42:04 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:42:04 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: plastic boning Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: EofAshley@aol.com Have you tried plexigrass for busks? If you use 1/8" thick, it has just the right amount of flex to recreate thin wood or whalebone busking, is very inexpensive, can be cut for you by most shops into whatever shape you want, and is machine washable! Karla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 17 23:23:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA20847 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:23:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA24401; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:31:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA17992 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:26:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA17983 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:26:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.106] (sdts12-106.znet.net [207.167.66.106]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id UAA01323 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:26:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:26:05 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <36C9B92E.C8B1BA1D@gte.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: H-COST: FO Brag Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams I haven't entered any competition in years and years, but with some encouragement from friends, we entered our team effort men's Landknecht costume in the Estrella war Field wear contest and we actually won! My hubby got lots of complements and was really really happy with it. But with all that, we never took any pictures! We'll have to dress him up and just take some to put up on our website. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 02:34:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA14978 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:34:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA17169; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:44:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA02190 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:38:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mi.verio.com (mail.mi.verio.com [209.69.6.110]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA02178 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:38:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from rust.net (69-103.pop.sh.mi.verio.com [209.69.69.103]) by mail.mi.verio.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA04318 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:29:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36CBC3B2.253EA900@rust.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:39:30 -0500 From: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen Organization: The Curiosity Shop X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Subject: H-COST: 1850's working class Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen << While Margo is interested in a more exuberant persona, I'm interested in putting together a late 1850's ensemble for a working man's tradesman's wife - poor but honest, that's me! If you are looking to do an 1850's working class impression I would recommend using the fan-front dress pattern from Past Patterns. It is a fairly typical style of the early 1850's and one that occasionally still appeared on very unfashionable elderly women as late as the early 1860's. That indicates to me that a very middle class at best middle aged woman would very likely still be wearing such a style dress at least into the middle 1850's. A fairly wide collar (2"-3") of fine linen or cotton is all that would be required to finish it off. The choice of material would indicate it's purpose and your social class. There are some pretty cotton prints available that are similar to some of the wilder patterns as well as some of the more delicate 'viney' patterns that were popular in the 1850's. Unfortunately, most of the fabrics available in the 19th c. are not being made today. :-( Basically, look for a longer waistline, and narrower sleeves than is typical of the 1860's unless you are going for a late 1850's look, then open sleeves (i.e. pagodas) if you are well off, otherwise, stick to the narrower sleeves of the early part of the decade. Flounced skirts are also an upper class style due to the extravegant use of fabric required. (Ditto pagoda sleeves.) I would also recommend wearing a few well starched petticoats, especially a corded one as the cage crinoline that defines the very late 1850's-early 1860's wasn't patented until 1858. There were earlier versions, but none too successful. A working class woman most likely wouldn't have owned one. Glenna Jo Christen -- gwjchris@rust.net Visit our web site, "The Curiosity Shop" http://www.rust.net/~gwjchris/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 03:35:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA21598 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:35:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA22297; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:45:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA04817 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:40:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.gte.net (smtp1.gte.net [207.115.153.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA04807 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:40:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from gte.net (1Cust229.tnt2.everett2.wa.da.uu.net [153.35.254.229]) by smtp1.gte.net with ESMTP id CAA09623 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:39:37 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36CBD11A.2B8287C7@gte.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:36:42 -0800 From: Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Swedish FO- described References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre Thanks for the link. Fun site! Please do let us know when you've had a chance to post the photos. :-) -Eleanor Betsy R. Delaney wrote: > > -Poster: "Betsy R. Delaney" > > When I've got the photos back from the Official Photographer, and have > them scanned in and html-ized, they will be available at > www.Costume-Con.org. I'm presently working on updating the info I have, > and I should be posting the con details, committee members, masquerade > participants and awards in the next couple of days. You'll be able to find > these documents by going to: > > http://www.Costume-Con.org/whatsnew.html > > For details about the next CC (18), see: > > http://www.Costume-Con.org/timeline.html > > Thanks! > > -betsy > > On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Lady Eleanor wrote: > > > > > -Poster: Lady Eleanor > > > > Greetings Betsy and Judy, > > > > WOW! I wanna see! I wanna see!! > > > > I'm sure we'd ALL like to be able to view this wonderful > > sounding gown! > > Could you please post URL? > > > > Thanks, > > Lady Eleanor > > > > Betsy R. Delaney wrote: > > > > > > -Poster: "Betsy R. Delaney" > > > > > > Oh, dear heaven... > > > > > > Judy, do you mind if I take this description, or something very like this, > > > and put it up with your entry photos when I have them back from Ken > > > Warren? > > > > > > Pictures are pretty, but don't convey everything if you can't step up and > > > ask the costumer. > > > > > -- > > Betsy R. Delaney > Webmistress at large > Costume-Con(R) Archivist > > *************************************************************************** > betsy@hawkeswood.com or betsy@ability.net > http://www.hawkeswood.com/, home of Hawkeswood Designs > and http://www.Costume-Con.org/, home of Costume-ConNections > *************************************************************************** > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 03:48:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA21641 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:48:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA23234; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:58:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA05359 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:53:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.gte.net (smtp1.gte.net [207.115.153.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA05354 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:53:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from gte.net (1Cust229.tnt2.everett2.wa.da.uu.net [153.35.254.229]) by smtp1.gte.net with ESMTP id CAA04848 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:52:40 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36CBD42A.BAC8D039@gte.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:49:46 -0800 From: Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Steel spiral boning References: <199902171240_MC2-6AD2-A5B9@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre Oops. :-) Don't rust? Hmmmm....I'm gonna do a test. Still going to do the one with reeds, but am now quite curious about the metal boning. Off to the washbasin..... ;-> -Eleanor Melanie Wilson wrote: > > -Poster: Melanie Wilson > > I thought the need was for later garb, not your period ! Eleanor , Oh well, > they don't rust by the way > > Mel > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 04:13:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA21731 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 04:13:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA26270; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:23:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA06464 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:18:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.gte.net (smtp1.gte.net [207.115.153.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA06453 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:17:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from gte.net (1Cust229.tnt2.everett2.wa.da.uu.net [153.35.254.229]) by smtp1.gte.net with ESMTP id DAA03972 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 03:17:25 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36CBD9F7.CA5A8211@gte.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:14:31 -0800 From: Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: stiffening/stays References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre Yes...the smaller reeds are what I was referring to. Still, a little thicker than what I think of as broomstraws...however...not to quibble. :-) Unfortunately, when I was in London in the 70's, didn't get to see QE's effigy. :-< It was Christmas time and the day I went the exhibit was closed, so never did get to see it! I'm still bummed...*sniff* ;-) Ah well...one day, perhaps. -Eleanor Deborah Pulliam wrote: > > -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) > > << using bunches of smaller reeds (rather > like broom straw) bound together and inserted into channels of the corset>> > > This is the way Queen E's is done (the one from the effigy in Westminster > Abbey). It has been confirmed that it was a used/worn set of stays; i.e. > from QE's wardrobe, not simply made for the effigy. > > Deborah > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 04:42:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA21850 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 04:42:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA28083; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:52:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA07857 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:46:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail2.gmx.net (qmailr@mail2.gmx.net [195.63.104.62]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id CAA07852 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:46:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 9380 invoked by uid 0); 18 Feb 1999 09:46:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jacomo) (203.216.65.95) by mail2.gmx.net with SMTP; 18 Feb 1999 09:46:39 -0000 Message-Id: X-Sender: marquise_de_pompadour@gmx.net@pop.gmx.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:11:18 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pompadour Subject: H-COST: plastic boning: would anybody else like to co-order with us? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Pompadour hi list, i'd posted this before, sorry, but as the "plastic boning" discussion has brought forth a few people who said they'd like some of the plastic boning in question (the "german" kind), i'd like to invite those who for some reason didn't read my first posting. there are already enough people interested in 1x10 mm plastic boning @ about DM1/m and straight steel busks to beat the minimum order quantity. everything else depends on whether we find enough interested people. 1x6 or 1x5 mm boning could work out, too. the supplier also carries steel spring and flat steel boning - see http://www.wissner.de as the supplier is located in germany, those living farther away from it will face higher shipping cost, of course - which is why i hurry to order some before moving to japan. *lol* please contact costume@gmx.net off-list if you're interested. ciao, yo marquise_de_pompadour@gmx.net - www.costumegallery.com/pompadour/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 09:20:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22938 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:20:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA21986; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:29:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA23273 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:23:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mi.verio.com (mail.mi.verio.com [209.69.6.110]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA23265 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:23:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from rust.net (69-117.pop.sh.mi.verio.com [209.69.69.117]) by mail.mi.verio.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA23770 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:14:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36CC22A4.C52FE69D@rust.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:24:36 -0500 From: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen Organization: The Curiosity Shop X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Subject: H-COST: 1850's caps Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen << I'm a bit taken aback by my first introduction into Victorian caps - are they ALL so fussy and elaborate? >> Not necessarily, it depended on the taste of the wearer as well as the function. Women in the 1850's and before wore caps for sleeping, for morning wear before she or her hair is fully dressed for the day, for wearing during the day at home and for formal evening occasions such as dinner parties. Ball wear required yet a different style. The more public and formal the occasion, the more likely the cap would be fussy and elaborate. Libby Smith of Tennessee has been researching caps of the mid 19th for some years and has produced a variety of cap patterns. Please contact me off the list if you would like her e-mail address. As her largest potential market for these patterns would be Civil War reenactors she was very disappointed to discover in her research that there is no real evidence that most women were still wearing caps for day wear. The still wore breakfast or morning caps and dinner caps, but caps for the main part of the day had dropped out of fashion by the 1860's. Of course, since you are looking to do an 1850's impression, caps of all kinds were standard head wear *indoors*. As a married woman, you would be wearing a bonnet out of doors. Single young ladies in *informal* settings often wore hats, but even they wore bonnets for church, paying calls, etc. Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@rust.net Visit our web site, "The Curiosity Shop" http://www.rust.net/~gwjchris/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 09:22:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22948 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:22:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA22262; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:31:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA23540 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:26:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.32]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA23522 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:26:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from ehs205cs1.lib.ohio-state.edu (ehs250c.lib.ohio-state.edu [128.146.58.41]) by mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id JAA16442; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:26:16 -0500 (EST) From: "Leta Hendricks" To: Cc: "libehs" , "liblots" Subject: Re: H-COST: the zipper Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:28:48 -0500 Message-ID: <01be5b4a$ff9ded00$293a9280@ehs205cs1.lib.ohio-state.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Leta Hendricks" A super cool resourcefor your topic HOW THE ZIPPER CHANGED FASHION HISTORY is: AUTHOR Friedel, Robert. TITLE Zipper : an exploration in novelty / Robert Friedel. EDITION 1st ed. PUBLISH INFO New York : W.W. Norton, c1994. DESCRIPTION xiv, 288 p. : ill. ; 22 cm. NOTES Includes index. SUBJECTS Inventions -- History -- 20th century. Inventions -- History -- 19th century. Zippers -- History. OCLC # 28507009. The inventor of the zipper/fastener, Whitcomb Judson (1846-1909) is from my hometown -- Galesburg, Illinois!!!!!! *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* Leta Hendricks Assistant Professor Head EHS Systems and Human Ecology Bibliographer/ Librarian The Education, Human Ecology, Psychology, and Social Work Library The Ohio State University 110 Sullivant Hall 1813 North High Street Columbus, Ohio 43210 614.292.2075 614.292.8012 fax hendricks.3@osu.edu http://www.hec.ohio-state.edu/hendrick/ http://www.lib.ohio-state.edu/OSU_profile/ehsweb/ -----Original Message----- From: Johanna R. Forte To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 5:50 PM Subject: H-COST: the zipper > >-Poster: "Johanna R. Forte" > >I am an eighth grade student at Kutztown Junior High School who is >participating in National History Day, a nation wide competion that >encourages students to become involved with the past. The topic that I >have have chosen is HOW THE ZIPPER CHANGED FASHION HISTORY. If there are >any fashion historians out there, my project greatly needs your help. We >have all the history of the zipper that we need, but are struggling to >find some significance of the zipper. Yes it was time saving, but isn't >there something else? Did the invention of the zipper lead to any new >fashion styles to be designed? Did the zipper make clothing companies >save any money? (Was sewing in the zipper cheaper than sewing in the >buttons?) To discover more in depth answers to those questions and to >please the judges, I need primary sources. Could you please help me to >discover some of these sources? > >Thank you for taking the time to read this letter. If you have a >response, please e-mail me privately at MFfairy@hotmail.com. > >Sincerely, >Melina Forte > >Johanna R. Forte >Costume Designer >Kutztown University > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 11:58:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA23639 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:58:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA15200; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:56:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA18869 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:50:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA18844 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:50:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p15.directcon.net [206.170.184.64]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA23260 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:44:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:44:05 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902181644.IAA23260@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: plastic boning Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson > >Have you tried plexigrass for busks? I once found a lot of 1" wide strips of 1/4" plexi in a dumpster. I duct taped them together and used them for hoops. They were great, lightweight, flexible, and strong. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 12:16:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA23751 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:16:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA17281; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:07:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA20934 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:01:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA20926 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:01:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p15.directcon.net [206.170.184.64]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA24401 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:54:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:54:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902181654.IAA24401@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850's caps Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson A>Of course, since you are looking to do an 1850's impression, caps of all >kinds were standard head wear *indoors*. As a married woman, you would >be wearing a bonnet out of doors. Single young ladies in *informal* >settings often wore hats, but even they wore bonnets for church, paying >calls, etc. > Would the bonnet be worn over the cap, or instead of it? Some of the Godey's illustrations I've seen say things like "velvet bonnet with innner cap of blonde lace". Is this a separate cap, or is it part of the bonnet? As to single young ladies wearing hats, I agree that they seems to have been worn for informal or resort wear. Can I assume that a young lady wouldn't wear one for shopping in a small town? (Trying to discourage the Scarlett O'Hara wanabees, you know). Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 14:06:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA08631 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:06:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA09699; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:11:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA14518 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:06:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from oly.silverlink.net (root@oly.silverlink.net [209.20.168.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA14379 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:05:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from cvntlale (silver170-86.silverlink.net [209.20.170.86]) by oly.silverlink.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA13819 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:10:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990218102603.00ee2f84@silverlink.net> X-Sender: tsuruko@silverlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:26:03 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: debbie strub Subject: Re: H-COST: Beaded Fringe In-Reply-To: References: <7ad478f.36b5f3a7@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: debbie strub Greetings, Jehlor Fantasy Fabrics carries what you are looking for, but I don't know how much they charge for it these days. They are on the Internet at www.adnetmk.com/jehlor. Snail mail address is 730 Andover Park West, Seattle, WA 98188. Phone (206)575-8250. Deb At 02:01 PM 2/1/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Ioana Timariu > >Hello! > >I'm trying to create a belly-dancing costume. I'm looking for a provider >of beaded fringe. I'd love to manually make the fringe, but I have >a deadline for the costume .. I have to dance in it in April!)... >Most providers I found on the internet ask for 40 (3 inch width) to 60$ (4 >inch width) per yard. Is this a reasonable price? > >I live in Toronto, Ontario, but any reasonably-priced provider >from anywhere in the world would do. > >Thank you very much! >-ioana > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 14:59:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA08839 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:59:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA19926; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:08:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA23911 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:02:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from yucc.yorku.ca (ioana@yucc.yorku.ca [130.63.82.32]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA23891 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:02:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (ioana@localhost) by yucc.yorku.ca (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA29831 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:05:52 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:05:52 -0500 (EST) From: Ioana Timariu To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Beaded Fringe In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990218102603.00ee2f84@silverlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ioana Timariu Thank you! And thanks to all the other people that have replied to me but I didn't get the chance to reply in private! Your sources were great! -ioana (who just found a new hobby) On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, debbie strub wrote: > > -Poster: debbie strub > > Greetings, > > Jehlor Fantasy Fabrics carries what you are looking for, but I don't > know how much they charge for it these days. They are on the Internet at > www.adnetmk.com/jehlor. Snail mail address is 730 Andover Park West, > Seattle, WA 98188. Phone (206)575-8250. > > Deb > > > At 02:01 PM 2/1/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > >-Poster: Ioana Timariu > > > >Hello! > > > >I'm trying to create a belly-dancing costume. I'm looking for a provider > >of beaded fringe. I'd love to manually make the fringe, but I have > >a deadline for the costume .. I have to dance in it in April!)... > >Most providers I found on the internet ask for 40 (3 inch width) to 60$ (4 > >inch width) per yard. Is this a reasonable price? > > > >I live in Toronto, Ontario, but any reasonably-priced provider > >from anywhere in the world would do. > > > >Thank you very much! > >-ioana > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 16:39:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA08933 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:39:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA06432; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:46:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA11269 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:40:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA11248 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:40:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from [194.222.199.37] (helo=montgomerie.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10DbBV-0003J9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:40:41 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:27:51 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: 15th-16th Century man's hat In-Reply-To: <001901be5928$57a13860$eb17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jean Waddie In message <001901be5928$57a13860$eb17ffd0@default>, "Hope H. Dunlap" writes > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >Thanks, Jean. Are you kidding about the seat, or was this >actually done? It is an appealing concept! > I'm not sure if it's really period, but a friend of mine does have a similar hat, with cushion. I'll try to remember next time I see him to ask for his sources! >Hope H. Dunlap > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-h-costume@indra.com >[mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On >Behalf Of Jean Waddie >Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 3:13 PM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: 15th-16th Century man's hat > > > >-Poster: Jean Waddie > >In message <000201be5607$5c79d280$841fffd0@default>, "Hope >H. Dunlap" > writes >> >>-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" >> >>How do you form the man's hat shown in rust-color in the >>upper left? The big brioche-shaped velvet? one? >>http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_e/sebastia.jpg >>Some of the more shapely 18th century men's big floppy >>nightcaps look like this, as well as little girls' hats in >>the Edwardian era. >> >>Hope H. Dunlap >> >I believe it's just an exceptionally large bag gathered into >a band. To >make it stand up you can make a cushion that goes inside >it - and then >you can also have a floppy hat and a comfy seat! >-- >Jean Waddie > >____________________________________________________________ >_____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to >majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 16:53:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA09005 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:53:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA08457; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:00:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA12400 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:47:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from scn4.scn.org (scn4.scn.org [209.63.95.149]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA12322 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:47:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from scn.org (bd927@scn [209.63.95.146]) by scn4.scn.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA20792 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:52:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (bd927@localhost) by scn.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA25219 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:56:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:56:10 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Courney X-Sender: bd927@scn To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: 18th cent. fabrics Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Courney Hi, I've been collecting the bits to make some 18th cent. outfits. A quilting friend sent me a link to a page that included this -- "These wonderful fabrics from the Netherlands offer rich color tones in authentic Dutch patterns reproduced from original antique fabrics, quilts and costumes found in the museums of the Netherlands." Its: http://quiltedjourney.com/dutch.htm The question is, they don't have dates. Would some of these work for 18th c.? They look close to me, but I really don't know much about that period. Susan Courney (I have jpryans corset and jacket pattern and period impressions jacket and polonaise pattern should be showing up any day now. I really want to start with a robe a l'anglaise, but couldn't find a pattern that looks like the one in my mind.)_ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 17:23:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA09149 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:23:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA13728; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:32:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA19232 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:26:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from c000.paix.cp.net (c000-h003.c000.paix.cp.net [209.228.15.141]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id PAA19191 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:26:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (cpmta 16017 invoked from network); 18 Feb 1999 14:26:46 -0800 Received: from s244182.microweb.net (HELO lisa) (208.201.244.182) by smtp.tmsonline.com with SMTP; 18 Feb 1999 14:26:46 -0800 X-Sent: 18 Feb 1999 22:26:46 GMT From: "Lisa Scovel" To: Subject: H-COST: Virtual Museum Update Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:27:05 -0800 Message-ID: <000a01be5b8d$d0d6b180$2e47a2d1@lisa.microweb.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Lisa Scovel" Thanks very much to all who replied to my previous message. :) My powers-that-be have decided that trying to do a costume museum at this point may be too much of a task given our budget and timeline, so we are scaling back and doing shoes for now. The idea is that we will probably do costume later when we have the time and money to do it properly. In the meantime, my current charter is below - do any of you happen to have any extra special shoes from this century that you'd like to see showcased? -------------------------- I am a Producer for The Marketing Store (http://www.tmsonline.com), a marketing communications/web design firm in Sacramento, California. We have recently begun to expand our services into the realm of multimedia and are looking to create an educational website that allows us to showcase our talents in various emerging technologies. Due to the fact that we have several people at the Marketing Store whose personal interests lie in the realm of fashion history, we have decided to take on the task of building a virtual museum dedicated to shoes. This would be a non-commercial, public site to be used as a portfolio piece for our firm. The site will be titled 'The Century in Shoes' and will include a sociological examination of the century via the shoes people have worn. The technologies we wish to use will include animations and 360 degree views of the various shoes we will be exhibiting. We intend to showcase several pairs of shoes from each decade this century, a combination of men's, women's, and children's. A range of shoes, from working class to haute couture, will be exhibited. The shoe exhibit for each era will be wrapped with various supplemental facts about each decade. We have a few other goodies up our sleeve that I won't reveal now, but suffice it to say that we hope our museum will be a spectacular example of interactivity, education, and even a bit of fun. At this point, we are seeking partners who will be willing to lend shoes and/or expertise to our venture. All contributions will be fully credited, of course, with links to contributors' websites, as needed. In the case of shoes, we will need access to the shoes in order to shoot them in a particular way to accommodate the 360' panoramas. We will set up photo shoots in Northern California, otherwise we can cover the costs of shipping and insurance if you are out of the area, but willing to help by lending shoes. We would also appreciate histories (especially personal histories) and documentation of the shoes. Shoes in near to pristine condition are preferred, but we may showcase well-worn shoes that have an interesting history associated with them. Our timeline is a bit tight, so your prompt responsiveness is appreciated. We're very excited about this project and hope you can help. Thanks, Lisa Scovel The Marketing Store _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 17:31:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA09182 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:31:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA15537; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:40:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA20606 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:34:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA20474; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:34:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-79-55.s55.tnt5.rcm.erols.com [207.172.79.55]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA20541; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:36:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000101be5b8e$e2ba5ae0$374faccf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: "costume newsgroup" Subject: H-COST: Mardi Gras Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:34:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" We are back from our week at Mardi Gras. We attended 3 parades in Mobile, Alabama, 1 in Gulfport, Mississippi, 1 in Pass Christian, Mississippi, and 2 in New Orleans. We can now wear a different pair of beads every day for two or three years. I do not have the pictures up on my website yet. They will be there soon. We video taped a lot of parades and got many close-ups of the costumes. We have six rolls of film to develop tonight. A local PBS station ran a five hour program on the history of Mardi Gras and ended with the toasting of the kings of parades at the end of the night. Of course, I video taped it all. What was fun about this Mardi Gras Ball was to see the current day ball gowns, too. It was a parade of fashion. If you are interested in purchasing the PBS video tapes, I have the information. We also went into two Mardi Gras museums and photographed their exhibits. The museums are in Biloxi and Mobile. I learned a lot about how the costumes are dressed on the kings and queens. We video taped one of my sons, putting on the huge fan like collar. Forgive me for not remembering the proper name for the collar, but they are very similar to Elizabethan wired collars, except larger. It is very surprising how to get make these collars stable... huge hooks are placed under the armpits. To make the collar stationary on the back, a large U-shaped wire is at the back of the neck. Mobile's museum has a vast collection of the Queens' ball gowns. The majority of them are displayed in one gallery. All of their robes' trains are visible. The earliest Queens' ball gown is from the 1920s. It is a beaded flapper dress. BTW, after a long conversation with Mobile's curator, he would love to have interns or volunteers. They will soon be moving out the majority of the City of Mobile collection. Then the museum will be dedicated to only Mardi Gras costumes. No research has been done on the costumes. He said the collection has hundreds of costume renderings for their famous local costume designer. Nothing has been published on the collection. He is also looking to contract a textile conservator. So if you know any one in that field, let me know. I found out (after the fact), that Gulf Coast Carnival Association gives out some invitations to the general public to attend their ball. All that is requested is to wear formal attire. Also, on Saturday, there was a huge reenactment of the founding of the Gulf Coast region in Biloxi. It was their 300th anniversary. Too much was going on for me at one time. But I would have loved to have seen this. I came home with a wonderful assortment of feathered, and paper mache' masks. That was my treasure! I'll catch you later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 17:33:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA09193 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:33:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA15778; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:41:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA20095 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:30:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA19910 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:30:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA12448 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:00:34 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA10020; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:12:02 +1030 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:11:55 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: costume list Subject: H-COST: Silk satin Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant Yesterday I found, in the remnant box, a piece of silk satin for $5. Naturally, I leapt on it and carried it off. It is truely worthy of much saliva. Not very heavy, and really soft.... Anyway, to my eyes it is screaming out 17th century, and I am itching to use it for a replica of the blue silk 1650-60 jacket (with heavily boned lining) in the British Museum (as described by Waugh and Hunnisett), simply because I think it's pretty. Unfortunately, I have nowhere to wear such an object, so before I do, is there any pre-1600 application for this piece (it is only a metre square enough for a bodice)? I haven't seen any gowns that have bodices of a different kind of fabric to the skirt, and I should hate to 'waste' it on lining or cover it with trim when it is so nice in and of itself. And if I did make a 17th century jacket (of that particular time) what sort of skirt should I wear with it? Would it be okay to wear a skirt of different fabric? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 19:56:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09829 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:56:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA06204; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:04:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA17145 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:59:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from camel14.mindspring.com (camel14.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA17127 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:59:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (user-37ka86i.dialup.mindspring.com [207.69.32.210]) by camel14.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA27861 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:59:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00c301be5ba3$01073900$d22045cf@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Polish costume Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:58:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Megan McHugh" No, but I would also be interested. -----Original Message----- From: Heather Law To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 1:30 PM Subject: H-COST: Polish costume > >-Poster: Heather Law > >There is a posting on the alt.history.costuming newsgroup asking for a >picture of the traditional Polish wedding dress and headdress. Can >anyone suggest a good place to find one? >Carol Mitchell > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 19:57:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09836 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:57:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA06409; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:05:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA17485 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:00:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from hammurabi.nh.ultra.net (hammurabi.nh.ultra.net [207.41.144.251]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA17468 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:00:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from 209.6.136.185 (d185.dial-3.mnh.nh.ultra.net [209.6.136.185]) by hammurabi.nh.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/mtc.v2) with SMTP id UAA03701 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:00:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36CCB759.1562@nh.ultranet.com> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:59:05 -0500 From: Stephen & Astrida Schaeffer X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-NSCP (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Polish costume References: <199902170211.TAA17891@indra.com> <36CB302F.1BCF@mc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Stephen & Astrida Schaeffer I'm afraid the person looking for traditional Polish wedding dress needs to decide which region of Poland they're interested in, first. There is no one national dress; each region, and there are many, has its own style. I know Basia Dziewanowska was working on a book on Polish costume and dance (a dance group I was once part of contributed photos to the effort) but I don't know if the book ever got published. She describes herself as a professional ethnic, teaching about Polish folk culture, traditions, dance, and costume. I don't know if she has a web presence anywhere. It might be worth checking out www.polonia.com, the web site of the largest Polish bookstore in the USA. Also, try going to www.askjeeves.com, a site which lets you type in your question (i.e., where can I find Polish folk costume?) and searches the web FOR you. It's a nifty site. Asking it about folk dance groups mught also be useful; several of them have web pages, I believe, and might be able to offer advice. Good luck! Astrida _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 20:26:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA09957 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:26:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA09784; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:34:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA21343 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:29:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx.suffolk.lib.ny.us (mx.suffolk.lib.ny.us [199.173.91.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA21265 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:28:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from bchamber (dial-in98 [199.173.93.98]) by mx.suffolk.lib.ny.us (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA02997 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:22:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000901be5ba7$4a5fa200$625dadc7@bchamber> From: "Beth" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: Literary characters - OT Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:29:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE5B7D.6064A200" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Beth" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE5B7D.6064A200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does any one know of a literary character who was a seamstress? = Especially one who whose character was defined (some what) by their = sewing. Kind of like sewing's equivalent to Charles Dickens' Madame = Defarge. Beth ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE5B7D.6064A200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 
Beth
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE5B7D.6064A200-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 20:34:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA10009 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:34:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA10895; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:43:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA22332 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:37:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.nwlink.com (smtp.nwlink.com [209.20.130.57]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA22325 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:37:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer (ip16.pm3-2.eli.du.nwlink.com [209.20.135.16]) by smtp.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA28931 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:37:47 -0800 (PST) From: "Cathy Harding" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Literary characters - OT Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:37:01 -0800 Message-ID: <001301be5ba8$58881820$108714d1@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01BE5B65.4A64D820" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <000901be5ba7$4a5fa200$625dadc7@bchamber> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Cathy Harding" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BE5B65.4A64D820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is the Beatrix Potter tale of the Tailor of Gloucester and the mice who do embroidery and a lack of silk twist. -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Thursday, February 18, 1999 5:29 PM To: H-Costume Subject: H-COST: Literary characters - OT Does any one know of a literary character who was a seamstress? Especially one who whose character was defined (some what) by their sewing. Kind of like sewing's equivalent to Charles Dickens' Madame Defarge. Beth ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BE5B65.4A64D820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
There=20 is the Beatrix Potter tale of the Tailor of Gloucester and the mice who = do=20 embroidery and a lack of silk twist.
-----Original Message-----
From: = owner-h-costume@indra.com=20 [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of = Beth
Sent:=20 Thursday, February 18, 1999 5:29 PM
To:=20 H-Costume
Subject: H-COST: Literary characters -=20 OT

Does any one know of a literary = character=20 who was a seamstress? Especially one who whose character was defined = (some=20 what) by their sewing. Kind of like sewing's equivalent to Charles = Dickens'=20 Madame Defarge.
 
Beth
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BE5B65.4A64D820-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 21:38:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA10303 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:38:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA19441; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:45:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA00490 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:40:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from crius.flash.net (crius.flash.net [209.30.0.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA00475 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:40:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p170.amax34.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.71.170]) by crius.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA10082 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:40:07 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36CCCE75.43ED0595@flash.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:37:43 -0600 From: Kim Graham X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Italian corsets References: <199902150134.RAA11534@smtp.pacifier.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kim Graham Jill and Ralph Mason wrote: > -Poster: "Jill and Ralph Mason" > > So whatta think? To corset or not to corset that is the question. > I wear Italian with a renaissance/Elizabethan tabbed corset. Being short, "cushy", short-waisted and big-bosomed, the corset helps the bodice fit me better (someday I'll build the perfect bodice...), and helps with the line of the gown. I've never seen a corset labelled specifically "Italian" either. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 21:42:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA10319 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:42:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA20089; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:49:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA01211 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:43:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from crius.flash.net (echo.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA01197 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:43:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p170.amax34.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.71.170]) by crius.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA12866 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:43:42 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36CCCF4D.633C1C04@flash.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:41:18 -0600 From: Kim Graham X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: more corset stuff References: <265ad08e.36c8356e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kim Graham Gaelscot@aol.com wrote: > -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com > > it was painfully clear that 18th-century clothing > wasn't designed for today's supermodels. It's too bad that so much of today's > fashions, especially couture, are designed for practically non-human bodies. > > WOW! Does this mean that my pudgy self has a period body?? If so, Huzzah! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 21:46:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA10335 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:46:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA20961; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:56:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA02001 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:51:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mi.verio.com (mail.mi.verio.com [209.69.6.110]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA01993 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:51:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from rust.net (69-130.pop.sh.mi.verio.com [209.69.69.130]) by mail.mi.verio.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA19216 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:41:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36CCD1CA.D0809F95@rust.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:51:54 -0500 From: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen Organization: The Curiosity Shop X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Subject: H-COST: re: 1850's questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen Okay, here's another question for the flashy madam costume project: Would beaded lace work? ... I've seen bead embroidery on a few Worth wedding dresses of the period. Does anyone know, offhand, if it might have been used by someone less than respectable for day wear? If you were doing a late 1860's or later madam beaded lace would be great, but not for an earlier version. It wasn't even close to being in fashion yet, not even for the flashy dressers of the demimonde... FYI, Worth didn't come into his own until the later '60's and after. Glenna Jo (Still digging out her week long back log) Christen -- gwjchris@rust.net Visit our web site, "The Curiosity Shop" http://www.rust.net/~gwjchris/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 21:51:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA10354 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:51:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA21610; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:01:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA02469 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:55:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from kutztown.edu (pooh.kutztown.edu [156.12.23.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA02430 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:55:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (forte@localhost) by kutztown.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA17608 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:26:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:26:16 -0500 (EST) From: "Johanna R. Forte" X-Sender: forte@pooh To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: the zipper In-Reply-To: <01be5b4a$ff9ded00$293a9280@ehs205cs1.lib.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Johanna R. Forte" Leta: Thank you so much for the book info. I'm very excited to go in search of it. It sounds like just what our group needs to complete our project. Thank you again,> Melina Forte Johanna R. Forte Costume Designer Kutztown University On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Leta Hendricks wrote: > > -Poster: "Leta Hendricks" > > A super cool resourcefor your topic > HOW THE ZIPPER CHANGED FASHION HISTORY > is: > > AUTHOR Friedel, Robert. > TITLE Zipper : an exploration in novelty / Robert Friedel. > EDITION 1st ed. > PUBLISH INFO New York : W.W. Norton, c1994. > DESCRIPTION xiv, 288 p. : ill. ; 22 cm. > NOTES Includes index. > SUBJECTS Inventions -- History -- 20th century. > Inventions -- History -- 19th century. > Zippers -- History. > OCLC # 28507009. > > > The inventor of the zipper/fastener, Whitcomb Judson (1846-1909) > is from my hometown -- Galesburg, Illinois!!!!!! > *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* > Leta Hendricks > Assistant Professor > Head EHS Systems and > Human Ecology Bibliographer/ Librarian > The Education, Human Ecology, > Psychology, and Social Work Library > The Ohio State University > 110 Sullivant Hall > 1813 North High Street > Columbus, Ohio 43210 > 614.292.2075 > 614.292.8012 fax > hendricks.3@osu.edu > http://www.hec.ohio-state.edu/hendrick/ > http://www.lib.ohio-state.edu/OSU_profile/ehsweb/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Johanna R. Forte > To: h-costume@indra.com > Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 5:50 PM > Subject: H-COST: the zipper > > > > > >-Poster: "Johanna R. Forte" > > > >I am an eighth grade student at Kutztown Junior High School who is > >participating in National History Day, a nation wide competion that > >encourages students to become involved with the past. The topic that I > >have have chosen is HOW THE ZIPPER CHANGED FASHION HISTORY. If there are > >any fashion historians out there, my project greatly needs your help. We > >have all the history of the zipper that we need, but are struggling to > >find some significance of the zipper. Yes it was time saving, but isn't > >there something else? Did the invention of the zipper lead to any new > >fashion styles to be designed? Did the zipper make clothing companies > >save any money? (Was sewing in the zipper cheaper than sewing in the > >buttons?) To discover more in depth answers to those questions and to > >please the judges, I need primary sources. Could you please help me to > >discover some of these sources? > > > >Thank you for taking the time to read this letter. If you have a > >response, please e-mail me privately at MFfairy@hotmail.com. > > > >Sincerely, > >Melina Forte > > > >Johanna R. Forte > >Costume Designer > >Kutztown University > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 21:53:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA10368 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:53:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA21762; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:03:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA02671 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:57:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from crius.flash.net (crius.flash.net [209.30.0.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA02665 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:57:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p170.amax34.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.71.170]) by crius.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA23396 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:57:29 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36CCD287.8AE1554E@flash.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:55:04 -0600 From: Kim Graham X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Query References: <3.0.1.32.19990215205451.00986b40@mail.interlog.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kim Graham Danielle Nunn wrote: > -Poster: Danielle Nunn > > . Unfortuneately, I've > never encountered the plastic whalebone so I can't give an opinion. I > useually use the spring steel bones. Good luck, and if you have any more > questions please feel free to contact me. How do these steel bones feel to you? I have flat steel, and I'm curious as to whether the spring steel make it easier to bend (I have to pick up and put down records alot). _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 21:59:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA10390 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:59:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA22319; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:09:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA03470 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:03:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from crius.flash.net (crius.flash.net [209.30.0.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA03455 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:03:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p170.amax34.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.71.170]) by crius.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA28005 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:03:45 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36CCD3F4.E3BD1A39@flash.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:01:10 -0600 From: Kim Graham X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Steel or plastic? References: <19990216213511.16743.qmail@hotmail.com> <36CA6B76.A53A6701@gte.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kim Graham Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre wrote: > . I'm using ossiers (reeds) as is shown in Arnold, > Patterns of Fashion. What did you use for the reeds? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 22:06:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA10431 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:06:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA23007; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:15:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA04280 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:10:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA04273 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:10:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id TAA10280 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:08:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36CCD534.B8C27EDF@best.com> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:06:28 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 18th cent. fabrics References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press You might be interested in this site: http://www.patchworks-usa.com/ They have some very nice 18th-century style prints. I have bought a fair amount of fabric from them. Their service is excellent. They don't always make it clear whether they are selling small pieces of fabric (for quilting) or large amounts by the yard (for clothing repros). But, in fact, if the fabric is available at all they will set aside or special order as much as you want. Fran Grimble ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 22:09:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA10449 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:09:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA23395; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:18:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA04548 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:12:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from crius.flash.net (echo.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA04538 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:12:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p170.amax34.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.71.170]) by crius.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA04408 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:12:39 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36CCD615.C2E7E262@flash.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:10:14 -0600 From: Kim Graham X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Washing corsets, stays, etc. References: <16538-36CAD498-200@mailtod-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <19980922.130857.5351.0.kayherb@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kim Graham Kathryn L. Herb wrote: > -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" > > Try laying it in the bottom of the tub when you shower. Walk on it as > you shower and rinse. It's much easier on it than trying to put it > through the washer (horrors!). I'd imagine that it's better to take it > out once you've washed your hair as the shampoo is kinder to the fabric > than a hard soap would be. Works for me! After all -- how often do you > need to launder one? Pretty often, when you wear it in East Texas in the Fall! I hand wash mine in the sink with a very mild dish soap, then roll it in a towel for a bit. I dry it on my old drying rack (which used to dry sweaters in the Frozen North...) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 22:27:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA10518 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:27:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA24947; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:37:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA06459 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:31:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA06449 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:31:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id TAA16578 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:29:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36CCDA21.99DC884C@best.com> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:27:29 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 18th cent. fabrics again References: <36CCD534.B8C27EDF@best.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press Then there's this site: http://www.HickoryHillQuilts.com/dar.htm I've ordered from Hickory Hill once or twice and have no complaints, though I don't like their 19th-century selection as much as Patchworks'. Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 22:44:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA10574 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:44:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA26798; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:53:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA08030 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:48:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA08015 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:48:18 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ILPMa11080 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:47:22 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <20b58ba7.36ccdeca@aol.com> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:47:22 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk satin Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 2/18/99 5:38:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, csmart@physics.adelaide.edu.au writes: << Unfortunately, I have nowhere to wear such an object, so before I do, is there any pre-1600 application for this piece (it is only a metre square enough for a bodice)? >> What color is it? Anyway....don't you hate it when you want 20 yards of something & there's only one! I know it's not as spectacular [maybe] as a bodice but, if you have no use for an early 1600s bodice and mostly wear 1500's stuff, why not make a pair of wonderful, tie in [or however you want to attach them....jewels & loops?] sleeves. Something you could make several bodices or dresses that they would work with. Something in which you've cleverly used the fabric....poofed and/or paned at the top....pinked and slashed....embroidered, beaded & seed pearled.....quilted something like the man's white satin doublet in "Fashion in Detail. This might be a better way to display the precious stuff rather than a bodice you have no place to wear. Tho'....those jacket bodices are smart, are they not? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 22:47:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA10587 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:47:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA27304; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:57:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA08340 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:51:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA08327 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:51:31 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id CGMKa07010 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:50:40 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <9b5e0a29.36ccdf90@aol.com> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:50:40 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Literary characters - OT Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com Little Dorrit is a seamstress. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 23:02:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA10641 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:02:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA28567; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:12:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA09834 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:06:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA09824 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:06:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id OAA15556 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:36:18 +1030 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA10102; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:47:23 +1030 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:47:15 +1030 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk satin In-Reply-To: <20b58ba7.36ccdeca@aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Thu, 18 Feb 1999 AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > << Unfortunately, I have nowhere to wear such an object, so before I do, > is there any pre-1600 application for this piece (it is only a metre > square enough for a bodice)? >> > > What color is it? A sort of pale ice-blue, which I'm not particularly enamoured of. I thought I might throw it in with some stuff I have been planning to dye dark green, and see how it turned out. > > Anyway....don't you hate it when you want 20 yards of something & there's only > one! Yes! Well, they do have some more of the same fabric in different colours (again, none very nice) also on sale......argh! Temptation..... Still, A$9.95 is pretty good for silk satin don't you think? > > I know it's not as spectacular [maybe] as a bodice but, if you have no use for > an early 1600s bodice and mostly wear 1500's stuff, why not make a pair of > wonderful, tie in [or however you want to attach them....jewels & loops?] > sleeves. Something you could make several bodices or dresses that they would > work with. Something in which you've cleverly used the fabric....poofed and/or > paned at the top....pinked and slashed....embroidered, beaded & seed > pearled.....quilted something like the man's white satin doublet in "Fashion > in Detail. This might be a better way to display the precious stuff rather > than a bodice you have no place to wear. Hmmm....I've always liked those It. Ren. with the big poofy upper sleeves.... > > Tho'....those jacket bodices are smart, are they not? Very much so.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 23:06:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA10657 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:06:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA29117; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:16:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA10363 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:11:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA10352 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:11:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from nash.tds.net (latnusr0-a50.nash.tds.net [207.0.84.178]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA04880 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:11:20 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36CCE466.608D3355@nash.tds.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:11:18 -0600 From: Kent & Kat Organization: Oak, Ash, and Thorn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk satin References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kent & Kat I'm thinking sleeves too...sleeves are fun, sleeves are good, sleeves can be embellished to a fare-thee-well. I remember seeing an Italian Ren made for an infant with the most incredible pearl-laden sleeves that were detachable. It got me started on sleeves...or at least making sure that adding new sleeves to an outfit was an option from the top! Sure, you could make a bodice or a corset from it but what's going to be used more and seen more? Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 23:11:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA10677 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:11:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA29795; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:20:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA10836 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:15:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA10830 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:15:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id UAA18718 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:13:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36CCE472.70BAEB87@best.com> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:11:31 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Literary characters - OT References: <9b5e0a29.36ccdf90@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press I think in _Nicholas Nickleby_ Nicholas's sister Kate is forced to work in a dressmaking establishment by her miserly uncle. ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 18 23:33:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA10762 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:33:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA03189; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:43:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA13056 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:37:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mi.verio.com (mail.mi.verio.com [209.69.6.110]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA13048 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:37:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from rust.net (69-130.pop.sh.mi.verio.com [209.69.69.130]) by mail.mi.verio.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA26551 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:27:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36CCEAC0.350D6811@rust.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:38:24 -0500 From: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen Organization: The Curiosity Shop X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Subject: H-COST: re: 1850's questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen - -Poster: Karen J Farris Margo--I have actually seen and reproduced a day-dress from that period which had no waist seam! It was done entirely princess seamed! Seems that might be easy on alterations. It buttoned entirely down the front, with a small "Peter Pan" style collar and bishop sleeves. Hope this helps. This style was occasionally worn in the later 1860's, but not in the 1850's. It didn't appear to have been extremely popular even then. It took some skilled cutting and fitting for the glove tight fit from the waist up and immediately flare out full enough for hoops. Coat sleeves were the most common sleeve style shown with this style. Glenna Jo "At last an era I know something about!" Christen gwjchris@rust.net Visit our web site, "The Curiosity Shop" http://www.rust.net/~gwjchris/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 00:16:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA11635 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 00:16:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA07862; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:25:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA17647 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:20:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from crius.flash.net (crius.flash.net [209.30.0.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA17632 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:20:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p78.amax2.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.64.78]) by crius.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02873 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:20:09 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36CCEF15.E344FF7@flash.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:56:54 -0600 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: surviving bliaut? References: <199902171902.UAA04013@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Charlene Charette Henk 't Jong wrote: > You can't go far wrong with a period quote and footnote, but here also > caution is neccessary. If a writer quotes out of context, leaves certain, > maybe crucial, bits out, or if the quote is a quote from another quote, > which might be suspect, you can be put on the wrong foot easily. This is > not to say that you can't trust anybody or any quote, but it helps to get > to know primary sources (which can be translated wrong, too!!!!) or > trustworthy historians. I don't trust the late Dr. Evans that much, because Precisely. Which is why I've been dying to find references to the period sources of several assertions I've read (unfootnoted) many times. Now I can go look up the primary source and read what it says. --Charlene -- The discontent of the people is more dangerous to a monarch than all the might of his enemies on the battlefield. -- Isabella d'Este _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 03:46:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA08518 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 03:46:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA21224; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 01:55:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA02584 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 01:50:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA02579 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 01:50:26 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id OKOKa04317 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 03:49:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <97440b98.36cd25ac@aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 03:49:48 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850's working class Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 2/17/99 11:39:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, gwjchris@rust.net writes: > It is a > fairly typical style of the early 1850's and one that occasionally still > appeared on very unfashionable elderly women as late as the early > 1860's. That indicates to me that a very middle class at best middle > aged woman would very likely still be wearing such a style dress at > least into the middle 1850's. A fairly wide collar (2"-3") of fine linen > or cotton is all that would be required to finish it off. The choice of > material would indicate it's purpose and your social class. There are > some pretty cotton prints available that are similar to some of the > wilder patterns as well as some of the more delicate 'viney' patterns > that were popular in the 1850's. Unfortunately, most of the fabrics > available in the 19th c. are not being made today. :-( > Basically, look for a longer waistline, and narrower sleeves than is > typical of the 1860's unless you are going for a late 1850's look, then > open sleeves (i.e. pagodas) if you are well off, otherwise, stick to the > narrower sleeves of the early part of the decade. Flounced skirts are > also an upper class style due to the extravegant use of fabric required. > (Ditto pagoda sleeves.) And so unlikely to be part of working class dress at any time. Extravagent means extra expense. This isn't my "period" but .... It's an old saw that the dress of the un- fashionable classes is the out of date fashion of their betters. And we know that's not the case. Last year or two we started collecting favorite costume myths. (Something for the infamous FAQ?) This is one of them A working woman might pleat up a fan front, but surely would'nt wear a bodice cut off the shoulder that inhibits raising her arms, or pencil-tight sleeves, or floor-length skirts that require a genteel hand to lift while chasing after the baby or bringing in the wash or carrying a double armful of linens upstairs. Or extra flounces that require both more fabric and more TIME to install. Folly bells and henins didn't pass down to the peasants after the Burgundian court tired of them. Early 16th century peasant dress is nothing like antidated Tudor/Valois/Medici fashion. And crinolines, I am quite sure, did not become popular with the working class after upper class Victorian/Ante Bellum women had moved on to whatever came next (not my period, as I say.) If you're looking for working class women's everyday dress, in any age, don't research the fashions of 20 years earlier. Depending on the period, try Sears catalogs (or equivalent), or the corners of family photos in fine houses (look at servants), pictures of factory women, or the corner details of manuscripts and maps and travelogs. For any period, someone on this list can point you in a the right direction. For perspective and great photos/engravings/photogravure (?) from Leslies Illustrated Newspaper, read Jack Finney's illustrated novel "Time and Again"--no, wait, that's 1880s. Not what was asked for. Never mind, still worth reading for ANY new-ish costumer or re-enactor... well anyway... It isn't as hard as you may think to research the clothing or ordinary people. But don't, please don't, give in to the cliche! MaggiRos ~all my men wear a sword, or they wear nothing at all _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 03:54:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA08555 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 03:54:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA22368; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 02:05:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA03040 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 01:59:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA03031 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 01:59:40 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id TUCCa19764 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 03:58:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3aca0c1a.36cd27d1@aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 03:58:57 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Literary characters - OT Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 2/18/99 5:29:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, bchamber@suffolk.lib.ny.us writes: > Does any one know of a literary character who was a seamstress? Especially > one who whose character was defined (some what) by their sewing. Kind of like > sewing's equivalent to Charles Dickens' Madame Defarge. > Nicholas Nickolby's sister works for a mantua maker (dress maker), doesn't she? M.-R. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 04:12:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA08625 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 04:12:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA23282; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 02:23:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id CAA04202 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 02:17:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id CAA04191 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 02:17:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA29184.; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:21:17 GMT Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:17:09 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:17:00 +0000 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Literary characters (OT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id EAA08625 Status: O -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" What about Mimi in "La Boheme"? An opera, of course, but with a literary source. I seem to remember mention of her either making artificial flowers or embroidering them; anyway, the reference books describe her as a seamstress. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 08:51:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28565 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:51:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA06886; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:01:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA20925 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 06:55:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA20917 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 06:55:21 -0700 (MST) From: trekona@erols.com Received: from erols.com (207-172-130-222.s222.tnt3.col.erols.com [207.172.130.222]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA04356 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:57:30 -0500 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Literary characters (OT) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 99 14:01:01 GMT Message-ID: References: X-Mailer: Quarterdeck Message Center [2.00] Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: trekona@erols.com Fantine in Les Mis took on sewing after she was fired from the bead factory. And there Mottel the Tailor in Fiddler on the Roof (ok, he's a guy), which was a book before it became a musical. -Judy Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 09:38:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28755 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:38:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA11405; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:48:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA25513 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:42:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net (monsoon.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id HAA25501 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:42:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 4830 invoked from network); 19 Feb 1999 14:42:20 -0000 Received: from userl462.uk.uudial.com (HELO ) (193.149.75.21) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 1999 14:42:20 -0000 Message-ID: <36CDE75A.7167@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:36:10 -0800 From: Viv Watkins X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Literary characters - OT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Viv Watkins In Mrs Elizabeth Gaskell's novel "Ruth", the heroine is a seamstress. It was published in 1853. Viv. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 10:00:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28852 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:00:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA13882; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:09:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA28069 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:03:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA28046 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:03:45 -0700 (MST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id JUNRa07798 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:02:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:02:35 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Literary characters - OT Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com << Does any one know of a literary character who was a seamstress? >> Morazzoni, Marta. "The Invention of Truth." Hopewell, NJ: The Ecco Press, 1995. This is a wonderfully evocative novel which weaves together the hypothetical story of the creation of the so-called Bayeux Tapestry (actually an embroidery) with the story of a modern poet's visit to Amiens. Nancy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 10:02:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28871 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:02:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA14448; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:11:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA28361 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:05:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.gte.net (smtp2.gte.net [207.115.153.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA28349 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:05:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from gte.net (1Cust140.tnt3.everett2.wa.da.uu.net [153.35.255.140]) by smtp2.gte.net with ESMTP id JAA02216 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:05:18 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36CD7CFC.BE5A8952@gte.net> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:02:20 -0800 From: Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Steel or plastic? References: <19990216213511.16743.qmail@hotmail.com> <36CA6B76.A53A6701@gte.net> <36CCD3F4.E3BD1A39@flash.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre Kim Graham wrote: > > What did you use for the reeds? Ummm...reeds. :-) The ones for basket weaving...I think the co. name is Jarvick...don't know if there's a web site. If I remember correctly I used the 3mm size (?). At any rate, the small ones, about 1/8" thick. I cut them to length by simply taking the straightened bundle and slicing them across (about 20 of them per channel) with a very sharp cleaver. -Lady Eleanor > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 10:24:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29342 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:24:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA17300; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:34:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA01732 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:28:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA01715 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:28:46 -0700 (MST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id RBTPa05340 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:28:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2f778552.36cd830d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:28:13 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Literary characters - OT Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com << Does any one know of a literary character who was a seamstress? >> Is there anything in the Grimm and Anderson fairy tales? A tailor, perhaps? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 10:46:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA06471 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:46:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA20322; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:54:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA04908 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:48:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA04894 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:48:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.232 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:47:47 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Literary Characters, OT Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:51:32 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be5c1f$e8ede940$b51fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-reply-to: <3aca0c1a.36cd27d1@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" In *Five Little Peppers and How They Grew,* by Margaret Sidney, Boston: Lothrop Publishing Company, 1881 (my copy, but republished numerous times) the oldest girl and her widowed mother sew at home for a living (just after the Civil War). The girl goes blind from working so diligently, and spends one very dark chapter with her eyes bandaged, not knowing whether she'll ever recover her eyesight. There's an excellent teen book with a young female mantua- maker as the heroine, set during the Revolutionary War. I can't remember the name of it. I read it in high school, but it was a superb book, a very significant cut above average teen fiction. The heroine goes to work in a mantua maker's shop where they drink neither tea nor coffee, in order not to take sides with either their Tory nor their Patriot clientele. She proves her worth by sewing successfully for a petite, elegant, and exacting old lady, who was never previously satisfied with any seamstress this side of the Atlantic. The mantua maker crosses paths with a big, burley, coarse (and handsome) wagon driver (was he the elegant old lady's son?), who knits socks to pass the time as he drives long distances on the dangerous roads. He, it turns out, is a Scarlet Pimpernel kind of guy, who is a great deal more than the coarse waggoner he pretends to be, a conveyer of vital messages in support of the cause for Independence. The talented young seamstress slowly comes to understand the issues between the Colonists and England, learns to trust the wagoner, becomes secretly supportive of his cause, and after a successful highly dramatic episode, looses her heart to him. Perhaps someone else can remember the title. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of MaggiRos@aol.com Sent: Friday, February 19, 1999 3:59 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Literary characters - OT -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 2/18/99 5:29:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, bchamber@suffolk.lib.ny.us writes: > Does any one know of a literary character who was a seamstress? Especially > one who whose character was defined (some what) by their sewing. Kind of like > sewing's equivalent to Charles Dickens' Madame Defarge. > Nicholas Nickolby's sister works for a mantua maker (dress maker), doesn't she? M.-R. ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 11:06:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09114 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:06:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA23884; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:16:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA08786 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:10:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA08775 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:10:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.60]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA03944 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:03:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:03:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902191603.IAA03944@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Literary Characters, OT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 10:51 AM 2/19/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >In *Five Little Peppers and How They Grew,* by Margaret >Sidney, Boston: Lothrop Publishing Company, 1881 (my copy, >but republished numerous times) the oldest girl and her >widowed mother sew at home for a living (just after the >Civil War). The girl goes blind from working so diligently, >and spends one very dark chapter with her eyes bandaged, not >knowing whether she'll ever recover her eyesight. As I recall, Polly doesn't actually go blind, she has the measles and her eyes are affected, and she is ordered to keep her eyes bandaged so that she doesn't go blind. A snooty old lady comes to visit her and upbraids her for not at least knitting, if she can't help her mother by sewing. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 11:14:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13454 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:14:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA25447; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA10267 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:18:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA10219 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:18:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip119.an5-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.16.119]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA13804 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:18:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36CD8184.D0BE7BBF@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:21:44 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Literary characters - OT References: <2f778552.36cd830d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson There's one Dickens character who hasn't been mentioned: Jenny Wren, in "Bleak House" (I think), who is a seamstress. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 11:20:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA18164 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:20:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA26480; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:30:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA11729 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:24:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA11699 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:24:09 -0700 (MST) From: NScqweb@aol.com Received: from NScqweb@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id NGLQa04795 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:22:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:22:33 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Literary characters - OT Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: NScqweb@aol.com Hi all, lwilson16@earthlink.net writes: > Jenny Wren, in > "Bleak House" (I think), who is a seamstress. Jenny Wren is a character in "Our Mutual Friend" -- she is a "doll's dressmaker" and a very interesting view of what sewing as a cottage industry in Victorian London would have been like. Nancy Shour in Napa, Calif. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 11:33:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19884 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:33:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA28759; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:43:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA14440 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:37:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA14422 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:37:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.31.253 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:37:16 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Literary References for Stitchers, OT Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:41:47 -0500 Message-ID: <000501be5c26$d34ffd60$b51fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Ooops, I forgot the first novel in the English language, or so I was taught in college: *Pamela,* by Samuel Richardson (?) in 1741. Pamela starts the book as a lady's maid whose primary duties are stitching for her mistress and making her master's shirts. There are a whole lot of wardrobe and clothing references across classes in this delightful novel. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 12:22:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20090 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:22:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA07065; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:29:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA23681 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA23652 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:23:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.31.253 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:23:31 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Silk satin Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:28:03 -0500 Message-ID: <000801be5c2d$4884d0a0$b51fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" You might consider using your silk-satin to trim a garment on the wings, poofs peeking through slashes, binding wool or cotton velvet edges, closure ball buttons, appliqued scrolling decoration, vandyke trim, etc. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of The Purple Elephant Sent: Friday, February 19, 1999 12:17 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk satin -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Thu, 18 Feb 1999 AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > << Unfortunately, I have nowhere to wear such an object, so before I do, > is there any pre-1600 application for this piece (it is only a metre > square enough for a bodice)? >> > > What color is it? A sort of pale ice-blue, which I'm not particularly enamoured of. I thought I might throw it in with some stuff I have been planning to dye dark green, and see how it turned out. > > Anyway....don't you hate it when you want 20 yards of something & there's only > one! Yes! Well, they do have some more of the same fabric in different colours (again, none very nice) also on sale......argh! Temptation..... Still, A$9.95 is pretty good for silk satin don't you think? > > I know it's not as spectacular [maybe] as a bodice but, if you have no use for > an early 1600s bodice and mostly wear 1500's stuff, why not make a pair of > wonderful, tie in [or however you want to attach them....jewels & loops?] > sleeves. Something you could make several bodices or dresses that they would > work with. Something in which you've cleverly used the fabric....poofed and/or > paned at the top....pinked and slashed....embroidered, beaded & seed > pearled.....quilted something like the man's white satin doublet in "Fashion > in Detail. This might be a better way to display the precious stuff rather > than a bodice you have no place to wear. Hmmm....I've always liked those It. Ren. with the big poofy upper sleeves.... > > Tho'....those jacket bodices are smart, are they not? Very much so.... ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 12:28:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20116 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:28:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA08899; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:37:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA22080 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:15:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA21984 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:15:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.31.253 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:14:58 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: the zipper Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:17:23 -0500 Message-ID: <000601be5c2c$1524c400$b51fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Dear Melina, Good luck on your zipper project. The zipper had an impact on fashion, but its important to remember that the impact is not solely the result of its technological advance. People who develop new products have to push them into the marketplace, and sometimes the product doesn't meet a real need so much as the company's marketing department is awfully aggressive and successful. I think the zipper is an example of something that did address some sorts of needs well, but was overapplied and mis-applied in many cases. Compared to interminable numbers of buttons and hooks and eyes on shoes and clothes, it was definitely an advance. My father still recalls the morning misery of buttoning himself into his high-button shoes as a young child during the twenties, armed with a button hook, and having one or more of the lot pop off nearly every day. Zippers solved this, but so did shoelaces, elastic, and Velcro. Zippers also replaced buttons on men's pants flys, but for the life of me, I don't personally think this was a major step forward in civilization, as they were insignificantly more convenient to close, but broke or snagged the surrounding fabric far more often. In the 1950's hardly any of my clothes used zippers. Dresses buttoned up the back or front. Pants had elastic, snaps, and buttons. My mother's clothes from the thirties and forties used a lot of side seam openings, using buttons, snaps, or hooks and eyes to close them. The closures were not particularly cumbersome to get in and out of, and unlike zippers didn't make the fabric twist or wobble out of place, add unsightly weight to the seam, catch in the surrounding fabric as it went up and down, or draw blood from the victim inside the garment whose skin would regularly get caught in the sharp metal teeth of the zipper. By the 1960's a nylon zipper became the standard closure on dresses, and it became inconceivable to use anything else. I think it was good marketing, and not necessarily an improvement in the quality of life. That was an era of woven fabric clothes, by the way. And for 10 years or so, the nylon zippers melted under the heat of a hot iron. A zipper has no place on today's knit clothing. Today zippers are great for back packs and nylon sports outer wear like ski-jackets In my own sewing, I've come to almost eliminate zippers today for all the reasons mentioned above. They cost money which you don't need to spend, are especially terrible for closing knits, look unsightly, and add weight and wobble just where it ruins the lines of clothing made of light fabrics. Spaghetti tie tapes made of self fabric and buttons are much preferable, I think. I cringe every time I see an expensive tailored jacket with a zipper in it---to me it implies cheap, and doesn't belong in an expensive garment. I also think that period lacings ought to be reintroduced as a viable way of closing a garment. They can truly be hidden, add little weight, and when visible, add a delightful poetry to a garment End of tirade, Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Johanna R. Forte Sent: Thursday, February 18, 1999 4:26 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: the zipper -Poster: "Johanna R. Forte" Leta: Thank you so much for the book info. I'm very excited to go in search of it. It sounds like just what our group needs to complete our project. Thank you again,> Melina Forte Johanna R. Forte Costume Designer Kutztown University On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Leta Hendricks wrote: > > -Poster: "Leta Hendricks" > > A super cool resourcefor your topic > HOW THE ZIPPER CHANGED FASHION HISTORY > is: > > AUTHOR Friedel, Robert. > TITLE Zipper : an exploration in novelty / Robert Friedel. > EDITION 1st ed. > PUBLISH INFO New York : W.W. Norton, c1994. > DESCRIPTION xiv, 288 p. : ill. ; 22 cm. > NOTES Includes index. > SUBJECTS Inventions -- History -- 20th century. > Inventions -- History -- 19th century. > Zippers -- History. > OCLC # 28507009. > > > The inventor of the zipper/fastener, Whitcomb Judson (1846-1909) > is from my hometown -- Galesburg, Illinois!!!!!! > *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* > Leta Hendricks > Assistant Professor > Head EHS Systems and > Human Ecology Bibliographer/ Librarian > The Education, Human Ecology, > Psychology, and Social Work Library > The Ohio State University > 110 Sullivant Hall > 1813 North High Street > Columbus, Ohio 43210 > 614.292.2075 > 614.292.8012 fax > hendricks.3@osu.edu > http://www.hec.ohio-state.edu/hendrick/ > http://www.lib.ohio-state.edu/OSU_profile/ehsweb/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Johanna R. Forte > To: h-costume@indra.com > Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 5:50 PM > Subject: H-COST: the zipper > > > > > >-Poster: "Johanna R. Forte" > > > >I am an eighth grade student at Kutztown Junior High School who is > >participating in National History Day, a nation wide competion that > >encourages students to become involved with the past. The topic that I > >have have chosen is HOW THE ZIPPER CHANGED FASHION HISTORY. If there are > >any fashion historians out there, my project greatly needs your help. We > >have all the history of the zipper that we need, but are struggling to > >find some significance of the zipper. Yes it was time saving, but isn't > >there something else? Did the invention of the zipper lead to any new > >fashion styles to be designed? Did the zipper make clothing companies > >save any money? (Was sewing in the zipper cheaper than sewing in the > >buttons?) To discover more in depth answers to those questions and to > >please the judges, I need primary sources. Could you please help me to > >discover some of these sources? > > > >Thank you for taking the time to read this letter. If you have a > >response, please e-mail me privately at MFfairy@hotmail.com. > > > >Sincerely, > >Melina Forte > > > >Johanna R. Forte > >Costume Designer > >Kutztown University > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 12:31:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20136 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:31:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA09251; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:40:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA25745 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:34:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mi.verio.com (mail.mi.verio.com [209.69.6.110]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA25728 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:34:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from rust.net (69-128.pop.sh.mi.verio.com [209.69.69.128]) by mail.mi.verio.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA20948 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:25:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36CDA0E6.6017DB88@rust.net> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:35:34 -0500 From: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen Organization: The Curiosity Shop X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Subject: H-COST: Re: 1850 working class Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen - -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com >... And crinolines, I am quite sure, did not become popular with the working class after > upper class Victorian/Ante Bellum women had moved on to whatever came next (not > my period, as I say.) Actually, this period may be an aberration or perhaps it a matter of the democratization of America. One of the major complaints of the wealthier classes, (Charles Worth included) was that even maids and factory girls were wearing hoops. Pottery works had a system of fines in place for breakage from hoops. Others installed changing rooms where women left their hoops before going in among the greenware they were painting. There are numerous engravings and a few rare photos of women in hoops working in factories. The fact that the upper classes were having trouble keeping ahead of the 'lower orders' was a factor in the more rapid changes in fashions. Women of this period and beyond followed the same basic forms of the wealthier women, only using far less trims, less costly materials and generally avoided the more extreme styles. I have seen one original dress from the early 1850's that had the narrow bias cut sleeves and dropped waist. It was clearly home made by a non-professional. It was of fairly coarse fabric, most likely linsey woolsey (I didn't put it under a microscope) It had seen hard use, showing wear marks similar to those on reproduction clothing used by workers on living history farms. The skirt had even been turned once to make it last longer. Definitely a poor person's trick. On the other hand, there are accounts from people like Sofia Bost, an immigrant to the wilds of Minnesota in the 1850's who wrote home to Europe complaining about how the poor farmer women would come into town when a preacher came around wearing silk dresses and hoops even though they were barely scratching a living... Her rather straight laced religious views may have colored her distaste for such show in church, but the silks were there. They may have been of poor quality silk or the dresses may have been restyled a time or too, but at least some poor frontier women had silk dresses. The same with poor factory girls. They were reported to have scrimped and saved for Sunday finery. Of course, a respectable married woman would most likely have other priorities. She's follow fashion, but in a modest way. If she's doing her daily chores, she's not wearing hoops, but her skirts will be well down around her ankles to be sure. I know I've done plenty of bending and lifting work in those closes, corsets and all. Some women attempted to get women to wear shorter skirts with loose fitting 'Turkish' trousers starting in the earliest of the 1850's. The attempt failed utterly. One woman who attempted to wear this 'American Reform Dress' in NYC had garbage thrown on her for her troubles. Since when did practicality dictate fashion.? ;-> Glenna Jo "How she does go on!" Christen gwjchris@rust.net Visit our web site, "The Curiosity Shop" http://www.rust.net/~gwjchris/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 12:58:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00446 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:58:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA14820; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:08:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA02199 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:02:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA02180 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:02:26 -0700 (MST) From: Schmitt100@aol.com Received: from Schmitt100@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id PNXTa05340 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:01:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:01:10 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: OT Literary Characters Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Schmitt100@aol.com I just remembered - Calico Captive by Zilpha Keatly Snyder???? Anyhow, the main character and her sister are captured by Indians and held hostage by the French, and become the most fasionable seamstresses in town. ********************** Rebecca Schmitt So many books, so little time Good ideas are not adopted automatically. They must be driven into practice with courageous patience. - Admiral Hyman Rickover schmitt100@aol.com ********************** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 14:06:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00763 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:06:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA26155; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:16:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA15172 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:10:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from centum.utulsa.edu (centum.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.199]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA15145 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:10:48 -0700 (MST) Received: by centum.utulsa.edu; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:10:31 -0600 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:10:31 -0600 From: "I. Marc Carlson" To: sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu, H-COSTUME@indra.com Message-Id: <990219131031.c0e56@centum.utulsa.edu> Subject: H-COST: Arts/Crafts/Money Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" Pardon me if I am a bit vulger here, but I've had a question come up recently that has given me great pause, and so I am in my "information gathering" mode. A number of times in the past few weeks the question of money (as in "how much should I charge for this") has reared it's ugly head. First, let me lay the groundwork for my question. 1. I make shoes, as well as other things. 2. Traditionally, I do not take commissions, nor, as a rule, do I charge for, my work (except for knives, where my agreement with my wife, I charge a penny). This may be because I was taught that if you are doing something as a hobby it's inappropriate to charge for it, except perhaps for materials (It's also inappropriate to discuss money issues publically, so you can see how far THAT stops me :) ). 3. If you ARE going to charge for your work, the customer should expect a certain minimal level of work for that fee. 4. I'm a reasonably good researcher, I'm not bad as a leather-worker, but I harbor no illusions there either. 5. When I first designed my shoe page, I did so based on the premise that I'm just too cheap to pay what shoemakers were charging, and shoes don't NEED to be that expensive. Now, I was informed that I was undervaluing my work this way, and this was a Bad Thing. Fair enough. So, if I *did* charge for my work, what would be a fair price? As a minimum, if I used cheap leather and charged minimum wage, that *minimum* would be about $130-150 a pair for shoes. Now, I know professional shoemakers who charge upwards of $800-1000 for a pair of modern boots (and they think I'm absolutely nuts for not charging, or charging so little). So, my questions are 1. Is is bad to undervalue the cost of your labor so badly? 2. How much is a fair price? 3. Since I'm still making the information for how to make shoes cheaply, would taking (a lot of) money make me a hypocrite? Marc/Diarmaid _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 14:16:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00808 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:16:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA27183; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:24:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA16383 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:18:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA16373 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:18:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.100 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:18:22 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: OT Literary Characters Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:22:07 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01be5c3d$535396a0$b51fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" That one sounds like fun! Here's another book about a captive who sews: A True History of the Captivity and Restoration of Mrs. Mary Rowlandson, written in 1677 and republished 15 times before the end of the eighteenth century. She spent more than five weeks among the Indians in Massachusetts as a captive, wounded when taken, as was her young daughter who died. The Indian men often brought to Mary a piece of trade fabric or a pair of captured socks, and had her sew up the fabric into a shirt, or unravel the socks and knit them up again to fit. Fortunately she had the habit of always carrying her needles on her person, so she was lucky to have them with her when she was captured. I think her ability to do useful needlework must have been instrumental in her survival. The book is short, highly readable, and can be easily found at http://www.Amazon.com in a Penguin Classics book called Colonial American Travel Adventures, $13.95 price. In *The Five Little Peppers,* 11-year-old Polly did have measles, but it was her diligence at trying to keep up with her sewing duties in spite of not feeling well that brought on the blindness. She went blind and collapsed. Then the doctor came and figured out that she must have early stages of the measles. "Polly thought back; and then she remembered that she *had* felt very badly; that was when she was baking over the old stove the day before her back had ached dreadfully; and that, somehow, when she sat down to sew, it didn't stop; only her eyes had bothered her so; she didn't mind her back so much. "I thought so," said the doctor when Polly answered. "And those eyes of yours have been used too much; what has she been doing Ma'am?" He turned around sharply on Mrs. Pepper as he asked this. "Sewing," said Mrs. Pepper, "and everything: Polly does everything, sir." Chapter IV. Hard Days for Polly. Reread so many times, I can *almost* write this without the dear old book in front of me! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Schmitt100@aol.com Sent: Friday, February 19, 1999 1:01 PM To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: OT Literary Characters -Poster: Schmitt100@aol.com I just remembered - Calico Captive by Zilpha Keatly Snyder???? Anyhow, the main character and her sister are captured by Indians and held hostage by the French, and become the most fasionable seamstresses in town. ********************** Rebecca Schmitt So many books, so little time Good ideas are not adopted automatically. They must be driven into practice with courageous patience. - Admiral Hyman Rickover schmitt100@aol.com ********************** ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 14:45:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00923 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:45:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA02767; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:54:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA21597 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:49:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.118.93]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA21585 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:49:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from cliff.concentric.net (cliff [206.173.118.90]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/12/15 5.12)) id OAA09015; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:49:08 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from [206.173.96.118] (ts003d10.cin-oh.concentric.net [206.173.96.118]) by cliff.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id OAA19858; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:49:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:49:06 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: emmy@monogames.com (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199902102035.NAA26602@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Cindy Myers Subject: H-COST: Newton's _Fashion ... Black Prince_ Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cindy Myers I'm reading Stella Mary Newton's _Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince_ yet again (years later), and I'm still at a loss over something that is refered to repeatedly. In her chapter III on the Great Wardrobe, she states that the expense records for 1337 thru 1338 show the king was wearing both long suits in the old style, and short ones in the new style. By 1342, these short suits are described in the accounts as 'frounced' and buttoned in front. Speaking of the author of the _Grandes Chroniques_, she says, "But it is to him that we owe the clarification of the strange word 'frounciata', to be found in many entries in the English and French great wardrobe and argenterie accounts of the same date, for he clearly showed the he was using 'froncee' in today's sense, meaning stuff gathered together." She also mentions tunics with frounced skirts, which I can't imagine. From the pictures I've seen, it looks like all one piece from shoulders to hem. Certainly there's nothing I would call a skirt, let alone one that was gathered. Ooops, I take that back. Looking through the book I found one picture of a lutanist wearing a plaid tunic with a short little skirt clearly gathered on at about hip level. The accounts also list linen underwear "'robarum' for the king made frounced and lined in the new fashion" followed by some made in the old style (frouncing and lining not mentioned). Lined underwear?! Also listed is black Irish 'sarge' for making hose. What's sarge? If anyone has actually made hose of this period, will you share what fabric you used, and did you like how it turned out? She mentions chroniclers of the time complaining that with the tighter fashion people couldn't undress by themselves, and had to go through awkward contortions looking like they were being skinned, etc. So why all this talk about being buttoned up the front? Does anyone have any more information or opinions on this? Thanks for all the interesting discussions, Cindy emmy@monogames.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 14:50:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00954 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:50:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA03690; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:00:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA22442 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:54:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (root@jefferson.patriot.net [206.151.9.249]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA22425 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:54:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.151.9.18] (th-0-9.patriot.net [206.151.9.18]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA31589 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:54:00 -0500 Message-Id: <199902191954.OAA31589@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Arts/Crafts/Money Date: Fri, 19 Feb 99 14:54:10 -0500 x-sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marc wrote, >2. Traditionally, I do not take commissions, nor, as a rule, do I charge >for, my work (except for knives, where my agreement with my wife, I charge a >penny). I remember a similar practice in the Anne of Green Gables books. A gift of a penknife was "sold" for a penny so the knife would not cut their love. >So, my questions are 1. Is is bad to undervalue the cost of your labor so >badly? If you are making things for friends, or just having them buy the materials, you are giving them a gift. You mentioned that you don't take commissions, which also sounds like you aren't working for people you don't know. The "bad" part comes in when you are underselling someone who is working for all or part of their income. There are several reasons someone could be doing this: -Selling cheaply as you improve your skills, and intend to raise your prices as the quality improves. -As mentioned above, a gift or donation. -An idea that your work is not worth much, based on inexpensive everyday clothing available due to imports/big business. ($100 for shoes? They look like my $7 bedroom slippers!) This is also a lack of accounting for reasearch, hand work, etc. -Underselling in order to put the competition out of business. There are some motivations that are bad, and some that are not. People also share work with others within their organization. You might make a pair of shoes for someone for the price of the leather, but you also have the pleasure of seeing the person wear them at events. How would you feel about making a pair for me if I wanted to fill them with sand and use them as a decorative doorstop? >3. Since I'm still making the information for how to make shoes >cheaply, would taking (a lot of) money make me a hypocrite? I'm reminded of the Monty Python sketch, "How to do it". "How to play the flute" was described as "You blow in here and move your fingers around on these buttons." No matter how detailed your instructions, it takes time to read and understand them, and then time to practice the fitting and cutting and stitching to get a decent pair of shoes. I've watched people do this, (beginner shoemakers, not your instructions!) and it isn't pretty. Whether someone wants to make shoes cheaply or pay for them, you are providing a service for both of them. -Carol Kocian _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 15:35:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA01158 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:35:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA11699; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:43:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA29698 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:37:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com ([207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA29680 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:37:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.239 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:37:14 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Arts/Crafts/Money Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:40:56 -0500 Message-ID: <000c01be5c48$582d0a20$b51fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-reply-to: <990219131031.c0e56@centum.utulsa.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Sounds like a tortured moment here. The price for handmade shoes and knives is what the market will bear, *IF* you choose to let the market set the price. The market is the active buying and selling of all the customers and vendors. At any given time, prices for same shoes will be in a broad range, like dots scattered on a statistical sampling chart. The market tends towards an average price, just as a statistical sampling tends towards a mean. The more informed the buyers and sellers are of each other's terms, the tighter the pricing variation will be. But markets do not have to determine all actions in life, thank G*D. You can CHOOSE to give your work away if you want to, as a gift of the heart. For example, ministers and priests provide counseling for free or for a nominal charge. It probably irritates the $150/hour psychiatrists, but "tough cookies!" Doctors have a sliding scale in their fees, top dollar for those who were well off, down to zero for the destitute. A businessperson who has no other work one week may offer a great deal to make a sale, just because he or she needs the money to pay the rent and feed the kids that week. A contractor may give his expertise to a community in order to thank them for a school system that's gone above and beyond the call of duty for his troubled child. None of these people are being immoral, in my opinion, for offering their services for free or next to nothing. And if they charge money for it, there's nothing wrong with that either. I doubt that your modest production is going to substantially upset any market and throw any heads of household out of work. Love your WebPages, and despair of the time markets might come to determine the "cost" of every good thing in life! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of I. Marc Carlson Sent: Friday, February 19, 1999 2:11 PM To: sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu; H-COSTUME@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Arts/Crafts/Money -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" Pardon me if I am a bit vulger here, but I've had a question come up recently that has given me great pause, and so I am in my "information gathering" mode. A number of times in the past few weeks the question of money (as in "how much should I charge for this") has reared it's ugly head. First, let me lay the groundwork for my question. 1. I make shoes, as well as other things. 2. Traditionally, I do not take commissions, nor, as a rule, do I charge for, my work (except for knives, where my agreement with my wife, I charge a penny). This may be because I was taught that if you are doing something as a hobby it's inappropriate to charge for it, except perhaps for materials (It's also inappropriate to discuss money issues publically, so you can see how far THAT stops me :) ). 3. If you ARE going to charge for your work, the customer should expect a certain minimal level of work for that fee. 4. I'm a reasonably good researcher, I'm not bad as a leather-worker, but I harbor no illusions there either. 5. When I first designed my shoe page, I did so based on the premise that I'm just too cheap to pay what shoemakers were charging, and shoes don't NEED to be that expensive. Now, I was informed that I was undervaluing my work this way, and this was a Bad Thing. Fair enough. So, if I *did* charge for my work, what would be a fair price? As a minimum, if I used cheap leather and charged minimum wage, that *minimum* would be about $130-150 a pair for shoes. Now, I know professional shoemakers who charge upwards of $800-1000 for a pair of modern boots (and they think I'm absolutely nuts for not charging, or charging so little). So, my questions are 1. Is is bad to undervalue the cost of your labor so badly? 2. How much is a fair price? 3. Since I'm still making the information for how to make shoes cheaply, would taking (a lot of) money make me a hypocrite? Marc/Diarmaid ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 18:52:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01953 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:52:10 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA12638; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:01:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA29681 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:41:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA29671 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:41:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p35.directcon.net [206.170.184.84]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA03174 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:34:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:34:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902192334.PAA03174@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: 19th century drawers Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson I'm trying to find out when ankle length drawers (pantalettes?) were worn. I've seen them in an 1830's painting, but that was with a riding habit. While I've read that they were worn during the hoopskirt period because the legs were easily revealed by tilting hoops, I've seen a number of existing drawers, and they all seem to be about knee length. I suppose this may be because if the longer ones went out of style, they were easily shortened. When I worked at the Dickens Christmas Fair (okay, not exactly a bastion of authenticity), we were all supposed to wear them. So when were these things worn? And does anyone know where my copy of Cunnington is? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 18:52:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01957 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:52:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA12735; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:02:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA26920 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:22:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA26859 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:22:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p35.directcon.net [206.170.184.84]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA00930 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:15:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:15:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902192315.PAA00930@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Arts/Crafts/Money Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >So, my questions are 1. Is is bad to undervalue the cost of your labor so >badly? No, it's not bad. It's your personal choice. One thing you might want to consider, though, is that if you charge substantially lower than the going rate, you lower the curve for everyone else who's trying to make money in a field. As someone who's been trying to make a living with costuming for years, without succeeding, I know that every hobbyist who works for little or nothing makes it a little tougher for me to get my $15 an hour. I'll leave the economic philosophy to those who enjoy that sort of thing, and reiterate that it's an entirely personal choice, but if you feel a need to justify charging to yourself, think of it as price supports! 2. How much is a fair price? Again, that's a personal decision. there are a number of "how to make money with your arts and crafts/sewing" books out there that have various systems for determining pricing, some good, some...well, my favorite piece of advice was, "determine how much money you want to make this year, then determine how many hours you want to work. Divide the amount of money by the hours to get your hourly rate." Meaning, I suppose, that if you want to make $50,000 and you only want to work 10 hours, your hourly rate is $5000. Sure, I want shoes made by that guy! 3. Since I'm still making the >information for how to make shoes cheaply, would taking (a lot of) money make >me a hypocrite? Of course not! I could get cheap diamond earrings if I studied geology, found where the diamonds were, dug a mine, and learned diamond cutting. Or I could save a lot of time and effort and spend the money to buy them. People who want to buy your work are willing to do so because they want to save time and effort, or because they value your craftsmanship. If you want to give it away, fine. If you want to make money, that's fine too. it's up to you. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 18:53:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01964 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:53:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA12907; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:02:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA24201 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:05:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from deliverator.io.com (deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA24188 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:05:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from dillinger-2.io.com (ches@dillinger-2.io.com [199.170.88.20]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03555 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:05:24 -0600 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by dillinger-2.io.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA21020 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:05:23 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: dillinger-2.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:05:18 -0600 (CST) From: ches To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: movie costumes In-Reply-To: <20b58ba7.36ccdeca@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ches Having finally seen both Shakespeare in Love and Elizabeth, and after rereading everyone's comments about how horrified most of you were at the inaccuracies in costuming I have few questions. First off, I would never recommend a movie as a source of documentation. I would however recommend that a movie be seen for inspiration to find the BOOKS that mayhave inspired the cut of the costumes in it. Having said that, my first question is: How good is your historical eye? By that I mean if these movies were in black and white and all we watched was the CUT of the garments in the movies, how many and what periods and regions of them could you identify? Fess up. You told the whole list how bad it was because they mixed periods BUT you did not say that the cuts were badly done. Sounds like a scavanger hunt but it could be fun and very helpful if you were trying to show someone a particular cut and had no real good picture BUT you knew of a movie that if viewed in black and white had one garment that conveyed the idea very well. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 19:26:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA02123 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:26:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA18501; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:36:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA06837 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:31:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA06832 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:31:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id QAA17265 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:27:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36CE00EE.BCA71A26@best.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:25:18 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Arts/Crafts/Money References: <199902192315.PAA00930@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press > No, it's not bad. It's your personal choice. One thing you might want to > consider, though, is that if you charge substantially lower than the going > rate, you lower the curve for everyone else who's trying to make money in a > field. As someone who's been trying to make a living with costuming for > years, without succeeding, I know that every hobbyist who works for little > or nothing makes it a little tougher for me to get my $15 an hour. I'll > leave the economic philosophy to those who enjoy that sort of thing, and > reiterate that it's an entirely personal choice, but if you feel a need to > justify charging to yourself, think of it as price supports! > > I agree with Margo here. One solution I have seen recommended for amateur journalists who write for publications that pay, but don't feel they need the money, is: Charge the going rate and donate all or part of the payment to a worthy charity. That way, you're not undercutting other peoples' incomes, but you're not keeping money you don't feel entitled to. Instead, you're doing good all around. Fran Grimble ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 19:51:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA02233 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:51:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA21454; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:01:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA10148 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:55:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA10134 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:55:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from vaxxine.com (ppp31.analg-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.212.129]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04978 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:55:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36CE1529.572A50C8@vaxxine.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:51:37 -0600 From: Sheridan Alder X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re:1850's questions - oranges, smoranges References: <36CCEAC0.350D6811@rust.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sheridan Alder I've got another idea for Margo's "madam" dress that's less of a cliche than red but is fairly "hot" and lurid - how about orange and white! I picked up a crumbling copy of "She Walks in Splendor: Great Costmes 1550-1950" which is a exhibition booklet from the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston, 1963. It includes a c. 1855-1860 ball dress which is white and orange, (no, not peach) bright orange. It's a rather extraordinary edifice - the test says it's meant to suggest an open overgown worn over a petticoat. The "petticoat" illusion of the front of the gown is achieved with 13 tiers of ruffled white tulle, (didn't they worry about bad luck?) each tier trimmed at the bottom with orange satin. The silk brocade(?) has quiet orange flowers with a wide repeat, about eight inches apart. The "overgown" is slightly bunched up (hinting at the bustle..maybe they've got the date wrong?) by three wide orange ribbons sweeping from side edge to side edge, culminating at the sides with rosettes of the ribbon in graduating size. The bottom rosette about knee level is the size of the models head. There's an orange sash, and various other orange bits of edging. You could make a frothy white muslin day dress, and add bright tangerine ribbon trimmings! Intellectually I know that the Victorians went berserk with the aniline dyes, but I always think "magenta", etc. Maybe it's just the aesthetic shock of not having seen so much orange since my mother redecorated her family room in the late seventies from orange and brown to rose. From having overdosed on bright orange as a child in the sixties, and the earthier "burnt-orange-'n-brown-'n- macrame" look of the seventies, I'm just not a big orange fan, I'm afraid. It's interesting how orange has never succeeded in making a comeback, despite a couple of attempts. The baby-boomers never want to see it again? It does flatter on some people though. Problem is, I bet if someone did use orange and white for a 1850's gown, someone would be sure to inform them that the colours weren't "period". Sheridan Alder _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 20:17:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA02365 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:17:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA24261; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:27:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA12741 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:21:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA12727 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:21:55 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 1SORa19048 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:20:49 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <6777dfae.36ce0df1@aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:20:49 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costumes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com Just thought I'd mention that "Time" has a article on Sandy Powell....who I am always praising here. Doesn't mention "Interview w/ the Vampire" [what I worked on] for some reason but there is a photo of the Fortuny gowns in "Wings of the Dove" [so you can see how Rose SHOULD"VE looked in the mediocre "Titanic".] Ahhhhh....it's nice to have your belief that you have exquisit taste confirmed, isn't it? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 20:19:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA02375 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:19:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA24559; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:29:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA12981 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:23:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA12972 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:23:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-62-242.s242.tnt2.rcm.erols.com [207.172.62.242]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA28498 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:23:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009c01be5c6f$b3c35200$f23eaccf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: "costume newsgroup" Subject: H-COST: Call for Papers Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:23:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" Just wanted to let everyone know about Costume Society of America's Call for Papers for Regions III & IV. Theme: BLOOMERS TO BICYCLE SHORTS The Relationship Between Sport and Costumes. Deadline is March 15th. For more details, http://www.costumesocietyamerica.com/regio3&4.htm Later...Penny _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 20:30:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA02424 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:30:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA25492; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA13955 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:34:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA13950 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:34:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-62-242.s242.tnt2.rcm.erols.com [207.172.62.242]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA03631; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:34:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00a001be5c71$398c2be0$f23eaccf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: Cc: "costume newsgroup" Subject: H-COST: Three Tier Gowns Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:34:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" Hi Albert Cat and list, I thought of you all this past weekend while in the City of Mobile Museum... remember our conversation a few months back about three tiered gowns... The museum had an original ball gown from 1860s, that was off the shoulders (low boat neck) with a three-tiered ruffled skirt. The original colors of the gown was off white with turquoise embroidered flowers on the ruffles. Now I can say I have seen two of these tiered ruffled gowns in museums. The other was a wedding gown in the Valentine Museum. It was all white. Still have not seen those all pastel ruffled gowns portrayed in magazines. Later...Penny _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 20:47:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA02487 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:47:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA27266; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:57:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA15422 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:51:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.mindspring.com (smtp2.mindspring.com [207.69.200.32]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA15414 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:51:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from pavilion (user-37ka9em.dialup.mindspring.com [207.69.37.214]) by smtp2.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA30753 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:51:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005701be5c73$797110c0$d62545cf@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Arts/Crafts/Money Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:50:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Megan McHugh" I personally don't have a problem paying for quality work. But you are right, I do expect quality work if I am paying through the nose. Paying for only the supplies needed, to me, would allow more leeway in the finished product, but I would still hope for no major flaws. On the other hand, I've never purchased anything without paying the artisan something for their valuable time. In fact, I 've been eagerly waiting for the boots I ordered last fall from one of the somewhat expensive shoemakers, that I had been dreaming about for 3 or 4 years before I finally ordered them. On the other hand, I am also interested in making myself some shoes, as purchasing more boots at those prices is not going to be a frequent occurrence, if you know what I mean. So, pray tell, what is the link for your page? What kind of shoes/ boots do you make? I may want to order from you in the future if I decide not to take on the project myself. -----Original Message----- From: I. Marc Carlson To: sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu ; H-COSTUME@indra.com Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 2:18 PM Subject: H-COST: Arts/Crafts/Money > >-Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" > >Pardon me if I am a bit vulger here, but I've had a question come up recently >that has given me great pause, and so I am in my "information gathering" mode. > >A number of times in the past few weeks the question of money (as in "how >much should I charge for this") has reared it's ugly head. First, let me lay >the groundwork for my question. 1. I make shoes, as well as other things. >2. Traditionally, I do not take commissions, nor, as a rule, do I charge for, >my work (except for knives, where my agreement with my wife, I charge a penny). >This may be because I was taught that if you are doing something as a hobby >it's inappropriate to charge for it, except perhaps for materials (It's also >inappropriate to discuss money issues publically, so you can see how far THAT >stops me :) ). 3. If you ARE going to charge for your work, the customer >should expect a certain minimal level of work for that fee. 4. I'm a >reasonably good researcher, I'm not bad as a leather-worker, but I harbor >no illusions there either. 5. When I first designed my shoe page, I did so >based on the premise that I'm just too cheap to pay what shoemakers were >charging, and shoes don't NEED to be that expensive. > >Now, I was informed that I was undervaluing my work this way, and this was >a Bad Thing. Fair enough. So, if I *did* charge for my work, what would >be a fair price? As a minimum, if I used cheap leather and charged minimum >wage, that *minimum* would be about $130-150 a pair for shoes. Now, I know >professional shoemakers who charge upwards of $800-1000 for a pair of modern >boots (and they think I'm absolutely nuts for not charging, or charging so >little). > >So, my questions are 1. Is is bad to undervalue the cost of your labor so >badly? 2. How much is a fair price? 3. Since I'm still making the >information for how to make shoes cheaply, would taking (a lot of) money make >me a hypocrite? > >Marc/Diarmaid > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 21:02:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA02541 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:02:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA28825; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:11:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA16593 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:06:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mi.verio.com (mail.mi.verio.com [209.69.6.110]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA16583 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:06:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from rust.net (69-128.pop.sh.mi.verio.com [209.69.69.128]) by mail.mi.verio.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA15104 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:56:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36CE18C1.1B560559@rust.net> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:06:57 -0500 From: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen Organization: The Curiosity Shop X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Subject: H-COST: Re: 1850's caps & bonnets for the 1860's Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen > Would the bonnet be worn over the cap, or instead of it? Caps were worn indoors only. A woman would remove her cap (if she were wearing one. Not likely by the 1860's.) before she put on her bonnet to go outside > Godey's illustrations I've seen say things like "velvet bonnet with innner > cap of blonde lace". Is this a separate cap, or is it part of the bonnet? It was part of the bonnet. The term is probably a remnant from earlier decades when women often wore their bonnets over their caps. Those who focus on the Regency era can confirm if this was being done in that era. A few more old fashioned widows occasionally wore a widow's cap under their bonnet, but even this practice appears to have become rather out dated by the 1860's if not before. > As to single young ladies wearing hats, I agree that they seems to have > been worn for informal or resort wear. Can I assume that a young lady > wouldn't wear one for shopping in a small town? (Trying to discourage the > Scarlett O'Hara wanabees, you know). > Margo Anderson Bless your heart! We have more than our share of women with "Scarlett Fever" in CW reenacting. As for young ladies wearing hats into town, probably not. They should leave those for garden parties, the seaside, etc. The street scene photographs and other sources such as newspaper engravings I've seen often show women wearing a wide variety of bonnets from the fashionable styles to deep brimmed Shaker bonnets and slat bonnets. Some of the women in Shakers and slats were wearing hoops too which blows another costuming myth out of the water that women only wore slat bonnet if they were doing outdoor work or at least dressed for such work. Based on what I've seen in my research, my new comment is, "Slat bonnets, Not just for working anymore!" ;-> As with so many elements of fashion. The material used often indicates who wore something and for what purpose. A sturdy checked cotton slat bonnet would be perfect for out in the fields or garden, but a fine bastiste or sprigged muslin slat bonnet would look lovely for a walk into town with a simple hooped dress... Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@rust.net Visit our web site, "The Curiosity Shop" http://www.rust.net/~gwjchris/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 21:34:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA02644 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:34:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA02155; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:44:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA19087 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:38:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com [207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA19082 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:38:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.52 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:38:01 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: 19th century drawers Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:37:02 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be5c7a$c088aa20$3422ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199902192334.PAA03174@zeus.directcon.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Sometime between 1810 and 1820, pantelettes became established. Girls wore them before their mothers adopted them. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Margo Anderson Sent: Friday, February 19, 1999 6:35 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: 19th century drawers -Poster: Margo Anderson I'm trying to find out when ankle length drawers (pantalettes?) were worn. I've seen them in an 1830's painting, but that was with a riding habit. While I've read that they were worn during the hoopskirt period because the legs were easily revealed by tilting hoops, I've seen a number of existing drawers, and they all seem to be about knee length. I suppose this may be because if the longer ones went out of style, they were easily shortened. When I worked at the Dickens Christmas Fair (okay, not exactly a bastion of authenticity), we were all supposed to wear them. So when were these things worn? And does anyone know where my copy of Cunnington is? Margo ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 21:35:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA02651 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:35:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA02305; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:45:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA19173 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:39:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA19162 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:39:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p15.directcon.net [206.170.184.64]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26700 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:32:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:32:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902200232.SAA26700@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re:1850's questions - oranges, smoranges Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 07:51 PM 2/19/99 -0600, you wrote: > >-Poster: Sheridan Alder > >I've got another idea for Margo's "madam" dress that's less of a >cliche than red but is fairly "hot" and lurid - how about orange and >white! Sheridan, the dress itself sounds scrumptious, but orange is one color I can't imagine wearing. Probably for the same reasons of 60's and 70's fallout. I don't think I'll ever get over the sleeveless orange and yellow plaid wool dress, with dropped waist and box pleated skirt AND matching jockey cap, that my mother inflicted on my pudgy ten year old body in 1967. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 19 21:47:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA02691 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:47:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA03569; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:57:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA20108 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:51:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA20103 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:51:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p15.directcon.net [206.170.184.64]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA28422 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:44:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:44:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902200244.SAA28422@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: RE: H-COST: 19th century drawers Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 09:37 PM 2/19/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >Sometime between 1810 and 1820, pantelettes became >established. Girls wore them before their mothers adopted >them. > Sorry, I should have made myself clearer. What I want to know is, when did they stop wearing them ankle length? Specifically, should ladies still wear them by the1850's? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 20 07:43:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA26451 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:43:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA14195; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 05:54:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA26620 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 05:48:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA26613 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 05:48:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc182998-b ([24.4.127.25]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with SMTP id <19990220124815.VKNZ2059.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@cc182998-b> for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 04:48:15 -0800 From: "Rebecca Abbott" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Literary Characters, OT Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:48:44 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be5ccf$59818a40$197f0418@cc182998-b.chmbl1.ga.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <000301be5c1f$e8ede940$b51fffd0@default> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Rebecca Abbott" Is this perhaps _Celia Garth_ by Gwen Bristow? It's set in Charleston and sounds just like this, but it wasn't a teen book, it was a popular novel Rebecca, Voracious Reader > > There's an excellent teen book with a young female mantua- > maker as the heroine, set during the Revolutionary War. I > can't remember the name of it. I read it in high school, but > it was a superb book, a very significant cut above average > teen fiction. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 20 10:58:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27180 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:58:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA27453; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:08:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA07317 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:02:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id JAA07305 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:02:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 3524 invoked from network); 20 Feb 1999 16:02:19 -0000 Received: from tntmodem1-230.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.133.230) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 1999 16:02:19 -0000 Message-ID: <36CEF887.55F4@mc.net> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:01:43 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: what to charge References: <199902200031.RAA06850@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Marc, there are a couple of things that nobody has mentioned. If you start charging the going rate you will be running a business. Are you prepared for the paperwork, and for people demanding that you get it done by their deadline and to their specifications? Do you want to either step up production, to the possible detriment of the rest of your activities, or to turn down someone you'd like to help and whom you know can't afford to go elsewhere, because you've already committed to a higher-paying customer? For those of you who are griping about being undercut, there are a lot of us out there at the poverty level, who are not and will not be customers of yours. If someone can bearly squeeze out fifty dollars for a piece of garb, and you're charging three hundred, why object if someone else is willing to do it for them? Why not find someone who has three hundred and sell to them on the basis of the extra time, research, and detail they will get? In the real world there are items at all prices. Should people have to go barefoot if they can't afford $250 boots? Carol Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 20 10:58:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27184 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:58:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA27428; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:08:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA07307 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:02:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id JAA07299 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:02:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 3511 invoked from network); 20 Feb 1999 16:02:17 -0000 Received: from tntmodem1-230.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.133.230) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 1999 16:02:17 -0000 Message-ID: <36CEF6EE.6A4D@mc.net> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:54:54 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: anklelength pantalettes References: <199902200031.RAA06850@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law These were worn by little girls as early as the 1830s and as late as the 1860s, but I doubt they were ever universal among adult women, who were wearing stockings and petticoats and wouldn't be showing the pantalettes in any case if their dresses were the proper length. Carol Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 20 13:30:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA27683 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:30:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA11301; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:40:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA18391 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:34:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA18383 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:34:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r3p43.directcon.net [206.170.184.142]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA13085 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:27:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:27:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902201827.KAA13085@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: Opinions on this book, please Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson I'm interested in hearing list's member's opinions on this book: Sewing and collecting Vintage Fashions, by E. Macintosh. thanks! Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 20 13:45:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA27732 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:45:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA13138; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:55:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA19475 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:49:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA19470 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:49:37 -0700 (MST) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 8QMQa20554; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:49:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1e00845f.36cf039d@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:49:01 EST To: lisa.hanneman@SBCCOM.APGEA.ARMY.MIL Cc: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: source for fringe Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com Hi Lisa, here's a copy of an earlier post on just that subject. Includes beaded and non-beaded fringe. I'm posting a cc: to the list to update the info since the last time I posted. NOTE: Stardust Galleries is closed UFN. Okay, here goes. I've pulled all my trim catalogues out and this is what I've found. Note that the items mentioned below the sources are what is shown in the catalogues, but many of these manufacturers will do specialty orders, and have much larger inventories than shown in their catalogues. Ginsco Trims 242 West 38th Street New York, NY 10018 212-719-4871 1-800-929-2529 3" Chainette ("standard fringe") 2.99/yd several varieties of lovely hand knotted fringes 11.99/yd -black or black/gold 5" rayon fringe (tassel design) black/white/ivory 5.99/yd there are assorted smaller fringes (1-2" in length with tassels, designs, beads) Sidney Coe Co. State Hwy 36 East Airport Plaza Hazlet, NJ 07730 732-739-1168 hand-knotted & beaded fringes ($?) Kahaner 484 Sunrise Highway Rockville Center New York NY 11570 516-766-6363 fax: 516 766-7238 beautiful beaded fringes in the catalogue. Glitz! 801 Bayou Pines Drive Lake Charles, Louisiana 70601 1-800-344-5480 1-318-478-3304 Order Fax: 318-494-0862 e-mail: glitz@iamerica.net this is THE source for sequins. Their catalogue shows a huge, flashy selection of beaded fringes (as well as a line of belly dancing fringe sets). Their minimum order is $150.00, but their sequin appliques are spectacular and well worth the wholesale prices if bought in bulk. Baum's Inc. 106 S. 11th Street Philadelphia, PA 19107 1-800-832-6246 You must have a business license/school affiliation to shop here. This is a dancewear catalogue, but they carry a huge line of really cheap chainette. They have every color imaginable, from 2" to 32" in length. Their prices are unbeatable, for example, their 6"in chainette is 2.89/yd, in my local discount fabric store is is almost $12. Just threw this in for those of you who might have a need for standard fringe. Elegance (out of Texas, must buy in wholesale quantities, but great deals if you do) EXPO International 5631 Braxton Drive Houston, TX 77036 1-800-542-4367 1-800-772-7545 *Note that they practice a system of "follow up" on customers, which amounts to bi monthly telephone soliciting. It's still worth the deals. Call for their catalogues which are small and divided by category. Anyway, most of these sources are from the Whole Costumer's Catalogue, which any of you who costume should obtain. It is MY bible. angil ++++++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing "Yes, all my laurels you have riven away and all my roses; yet in spite of you, there is one crown I bear away with me, and tonight, when I enter before God, my salute shall sweep all the stars away from the blue threshold! One thing without stain, unspotted from the world, in spite of doom, mine own! and that is.... my white plume!" ~~ Edmond Rostand's Cyrano de Bergerac _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 20 13:53:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA27761 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:53:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA13991; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:04:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA20147 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:57:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA20126 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:57:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id KAA06388 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:56:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36CF04D5.E837466@best.com> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:54:13 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Opinions on this book, please References: <199902201827.KAA13085@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press Margo Anderson wrote: > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > I'm interested in hearing list's member's opinions on this book: Sewing > and collecting Vintage Fashions, by E. Macintosh. > > thanks! > > Margo > > Well, my opinion is hardly objective, since my book _After a Fashion_ is a competitive book. When I wrote it I went through all the existing similar books on reproducing historic costumes and collecting vintage clothing. I analyzed their strengths and weaknesses and did my best to reproduce or improve on the strengths and avoid the weaknesses. Anyway, my impression was _Sewing and Collecting Vintage Fashions_ was submitted as an outline and partial draft, but never really finished. The outline was good, but the text doesn't go into much depth about anything. I think it was meant as a beginner's book, but even so it doesn't give enough information/detail. I think it went out of print last year. Fran Grimble ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 20 14:03:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA27803 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 14:03:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA14947; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:14:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA20931 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:08:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mi.verio.com (mail.mi.verio.com [209.69.6.110]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA20925 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:08:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from rust.net (69-118.pop.sh.mi.verio.com [209.69.69.118]) by mail.mi.verio.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA05217 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:58:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36CF0851.43901B65@rust.net> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 14:09:05 -0500 From: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen Organization: The Curiosity Shop X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Subject: H-COST: Re: 19th c. drawers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen Sorry, I should have made myself clearer. What I want to know is, when did they stop wearing them ankle length? Specifically, should ladies still wear them by the 1850's? Margo Women did not wear ankle length drawers (the more typical term used at the time for pantalets) anytime that I'm at all aware of in the mid or late century. Women typically wore split crochet drawers that reached approximately mid calf in the 1850's through the '60's. Some time after that (I don't do detailed research much after the '60's) they got shorter, about knee length. If women rarely wore drawers, then why are there so many period illustrations showing women wearing them, why are there so many surviving examples of drawers from this period and why do they show up in trousseau and laundry lists? I for one would never think of wearing mid century period dress without them. I certainly don't flash the world with them (unless doing underwear demonstrations :-)) but brisk winds and occasionally accidents do happen... A brief comment about orange in the 19th c. I have a list of 'suitable' colors for women of different coloring to wear. After listing various colors for blondes and brunette's etc. the writer commented, "Orange suits nobody". Looking ghastly in any warm color, especially orange, (the '70's were hell for me!) I have to agree with that statement. :-) The orange dress sounds really wild that's for sure! I know intense salmon pink was sure popular, but bright orange? Yikes! Keep it away from me. :-) Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@rust.net Visit our web site, "The Curiosity Shop" http://www.rust.net/~gwjchris/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 20 15:46:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA28177 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:46:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA26158; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:56:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA29591 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:50:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA29580 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:50:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.31.96 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:50:04 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Cc: Subject: RE: H-COST: Literary Characters, OT Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:53:40 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be5d13$4ea8ce00$601fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <000101be5ccf$59818a40$197f0418@cc182998-b.chmbl1.ga.home.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" This may well have been it. And I kind of bit my tongue after calling it a teen book, as It was good enough to appeal to anybody. But like Gone with the Wind, Exodus, Hawaii, and Little Women, I just happened to get it from my high school library and read it at that stage of my life. Thanks for posting it, and I'll confirm! It's the kind of highly intelligent book which portrays the complexity of character, set in a certain life and times, which should still be in every library. Particularly good at conveying all that to young people, any people. I believe she noticed his stockings, which he knit himself on his long wagon rides, as the first clue that he was not just a crude waggoner. They were worked in a variety of complex, intricate patterns which no mere crude dude would have produced! The book uses needlework as a clue to character and mood in a variety of ways! Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Rebecca Abbott Sent: Saturday, February 20, 1999 7:49 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Literary Characters, OT -Poster: "Rebecca Abbott" Is this perhaps _Celia Garth_ by Gwen Bristow? It's set in Charleston and sounds just like this, but it wasn't a teen book, it was a popular novel Rebecca, Voracious Reader > > There's an excellent teen book with a young female mantua- > maker as the heroine, set during the Revolutionary War. I > can't remember the name of it. I read it in high school, but > it was a superb book, a very significant cut above average > teen fiction. ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 20 15:46:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA28181 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:46:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA26319; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:57:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA29645 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:51:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA29638 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:51:15 -0700 (MST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id PVYAa04795 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:50:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2a852024.36cf2018@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:50:32 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: OT Literary Characters Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com How about any of the "Little House on the Prairie" books? Nancy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 20 16:50:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA28413 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:50:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA03327; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:01:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA05189 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 14:54:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtpserv1.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (SMTPSERV1.SLAC.Stanford.EDU [134.79.16.136]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA05181 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 14:54:38 -0700 (MST) From: MEIER@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Received: from ssrl.slac.stanford.edu (SSRL.SLAC.Stanford.EDU [134.79.33.11]) by smtpserv1.slac.stanford.edu (PMDF V5.2-29 #34068) with ESMTP id <0F7H0067S3J60W@smtpserv1.slac.stanford.edu> for H-COSTUME@INDRA.COM; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:54:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU by SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (PMDF V5.1-9 #23033) id <01J7YU8743YC95O0GJ@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> for H-COSTUME@INDRA.COM; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:54:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:54:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: H-COST: Give Me Your Favorite Sewing, Costume, and Pattern URLs To: H-COSTUME@indra.com Message-id: <01J7YU8743YE95O0GJ@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> X-VMS-To: H-COSTUME@INDRA.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MEIER@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Folks -- I lucked out and have a chance to help promote sewing and costuming on the web, so I'm looking for aid from all you expert sewers and costumers. I'm working for a net directory called Looksmart as a reviewer of web sites. We are assigned particular areas in which to search for websites that aren't already in the (humongous) database. Then we log them, do extremely brief writeups, and put them into their selected categories. So...there was a special deal where editors got to request a favorite category to work within for the next week, and I kinda won the prize. I asked to be able to do historical recreation and costuming sites. They gave me half of what I was looking for: they told me that I was assigned to beef up the sewing section in the areas of Guides and Advice, and Patterns. They know I'm going to mix historical/vintage and current sewing URLs; in fact, that's what they want. The catch, such as it is, is that I can only enter 25 new URLs into each category. What I'd like to do is ask y'all to tell me which are your FAVORITE AND MOST HELPFUL SITES FOR SEWING, EITHER HISTORICAL OR CONTEMPORARY, AND YOUR FAVORITE HISTORICAL PATTERN SITES. DIRECTORIES OF LINKS ARE FINE, even better in some respects, since I have such a small number to work with. What helps you most, and what would be most helpful to sewers and costumers in general? I'm going to be working on this project SUNDAY AND MONDAY, SO SEND ME THESE URLS DIRECTLY AT: vschnatm@looksmart.net I can't promise anything will get in, and I may already know the site, and the site may already be in the database. But your information will definitely help make this section of this major web directory high-quality. Note to the cynical: this doesn't save me as much work as you might think, since I still have to go to the site, roam over it and make the decision, and then write it up. The work this _will_ help me with is the agonizing over which is the Very Best To Include, which believe it or not I do care about. I know there are areas of costuming and certainly sewing where I'm no expert. And you'd be surprised at how many really good sites don't make the search engines. Looksmart just made a deal with Microsoft to be the main source of categoried web searching on the MSN site, so these URLs will have high visibility. The assignment probably ends Monday, so I'd need to know by MONDAY FEB. 22ND AT 6 PM AT THE LATEST. Thanks in advance for your suggestions! Remember, send them to VSCHNATM@LOOKSMART.NET Looking forward to being of assistance, Vanessa Schnatmeier _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 20 21:09:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA29304 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:09:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA03149; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:19:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA24564 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:13:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA24556 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 19:12:58 -0700 (MST) From: AliaClaire@aol.com Received: from AliaClaire@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 8ADDa05501 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:12:08 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <6a1a65ca.36cf6b78@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:12:08 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re:1850's questions - oranges, smoranges Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com This is going to be a VERY vague answer, but... I remember (or seem to) a discussion of the CW-Reenactors list a year or two back about orange being a popular colour. Not as much so as magenta, but I have heard it mentioned for brunettes. And when they did something with artificial colours, it was BRIGHT! Here's some things from the CHARLESTON MERCURY, May 1st, 1861, p4, c 2. "The 'Garibaldi' has just made it's debut in Paris. It is an exquisit tint- something just outside of tawny orange, verging on a pink salmon- oftimes seen on the carnation lip of a sea-shell. Dark-eyed, brilliant burnettes may congradulate themselves- this colour, or all others, being most becoming to their style. They have been made to look hideous long enough by those two trying colours, Solferino and Magenta; therefor, burnettes may now promise themselves the felicity of not only looking divine, but being 'a la mode'. I have a Peterson's article somewhere complaining about how ugly the style for orange and magenta was....unfortunetly, my English teacher has that book at this point in time. I'll post in references and anything else I can find when I can... Personally, I think a bright orange dress (about the colour of a can of Sunkist Orange Soda...) made of batiste or lawn, either with lots and lots of fussy, tiny flounces (all trimmed with white ribbon!) or made _en tableau_ with a white center, would look GREAT for the impression you're going for...loud, but still semi-fashionable and respectable. Huge pagodas (smaller the closer you get to 1860s) trimmed with white lace, white, full, puffy undersleeves, and a 3-inch or so batiste or lace collar would make the outfit! -Alison Stacy AliaClaire@aol.com Canton, Ohio _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 20 22:30:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA29610 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:30:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA12636; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:41:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA00612 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:34:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id UAA00604 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:34:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 13892 invoked from network); 21 Feb 1999 03:34:43 -0000 Received: from tntmodem2-56.mc.net (HELO HEATHERL) (209.172.134.56) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 1999 03:34:43 -0000 Message-ID: <36CF72D7.5EA3@mc.net> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 18:43:35 -0800 From: Heather Law Organization: Interstellar Trading Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Sandy Powell References: <199902201834.LAA18411@indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Heather Law Which issue of Time is that, please? Carol Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 20 23:57:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA29983 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 23:57:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA21949; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:07:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA07249 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:00:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA07241 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:00:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p33.directcon.net [206.170.184.82]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA22035 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:54:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:54:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902210454.UAA22035@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: Elizabethan, anyone? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson After the way "Sense and Sensibility" and "Titanic" influenced fashion in the last few years, what do you supposed the popularity of "Shakespeare in Love" and "Elizabeth" will lead to? Can we hope for brocades, lace ruffs, and ropes of pearls to be fashionable next year? I hope so! Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 01:01:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA30948 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 01:01:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA02232; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 23:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA12028 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 23:05:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA12003 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 23:05:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p33.directcon.net [206.170.184.82]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA03109 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:58:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:58:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902210558.VAA03109@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: Fabric Of History Seminar? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson Is anyone on the list going to the"Fabric of History" symposium in Columbia, CA, next month? Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 05:46:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA20473 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 05:46:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA21657; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:57:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA29774 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:50:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA29504 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:49:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.111] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10EWSV-0004iS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 02:49:59 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990221011525.00adf100@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 01:16:27 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: Fabric width? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows You mean arithmetic. As we say in the Art department, oops. >Check your math-- >36 x 4/3 = 48 >36 x 5/4 = 45 Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 05:46:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA20477 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 05:46:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA21759; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:57:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA29807 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:50:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA29558 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:50:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.111] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10EWSY-0004iS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 02:50:02 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990221012022.00adf720@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 01:28:04 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: grow tucks In-Reply-To: <36cc7722.8959198@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <4.1.19990212085358.00c76e40@pop.slip.net> <4.1.19990210120843.00c4ac80@pop.slip.net> <4.1.19990210120843.00c4ac80@pop.slip.net> <4.1.19990212085358.00c76e40@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows The problem is that the tuck is only in the front, tapering off to nothing at the sides. Stretch would be similar all around the skirt and would need a tuck all the way around to compensate. Tuck was certainly done after the skirt was finished. The trim folds there, the brocade pattern in the cloth shows a discontinuity there, and the aiglets from the part underneath sometimes hang down beyond the fold. If the skirt always stayed folded in use, pins could be used. If the skirt didn't always stay folded in use, no sense in pinning it. >It came to me, a couple of days after I posted my previous message, >that it could be to adjust the front length of the skirt after it had >stretched under its own weight. > >*or* Perhaps there was a formal court presentation convention that >skirts had to be *made*, but not necessarily worn at, a certain >length, past comfortable walking length, even over hoops ? All of us >have seen skirts made too long even for practical wear over the hoops >they are worn with, getting stepped on by the wearer, despite the >apparent width of the hoops. > >The 'tuck' is *so* obvious in at least one of the paintings I have >seen it in, that perhaps it is only pinned up, and not sewn after all. >One painting shows the tuck clearly passing *through* the ornament >(meaning that the ornament is clearly not applied over it). Pinning >up a skirt to show off fashionable shoes, perhaps? Pinning would also >be fairly safe for the wearer if the pins were only in the outer >skirt, over a petticoat and a farthingale. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 05:46:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA20481 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 05:46:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA21660; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:57:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA29775 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:50:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA29585 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:50:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.111] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10EWSZ-0004iS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 02:50:04 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990221012956.00be3b40@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 01:34:51 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850's questions In-Reply-To: <199902121858.KAA01669@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>If you want to look like a Madam, go tawdry. Colours too loud, neckline >>too low (excuse me - 'dressy'), decorations too large, etc.. Like New >>Money. Like advertising. And don't worry about making yourself look >>thinner for the occasion. > >That's about what I was thinking. Possibly an emerald green and magenta >combination, or my favorite red and black? Red and black is what your ladies wear on the job. Magenta and emerald green for you because you've got taste (yeah, right). (BTW, have you seen my magenta, lime green, and blue, woven-plaid with teal-floral-overprinting dress?) An aniline-dye nightmare for the newly rich. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 05:46:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA20483 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 05:46:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA21776; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:57:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA29816 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:50:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA29538 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:50:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.111] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10EWSW-0004iS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 02:50:01 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990221011813.00b75830@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 01:19:27 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: African Masks-help req In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows ><< To fake this on stage try a plain > piece of poster board (or railroad board, the thin stuff sold as poster > board at Walgreen's). Cut it out in the right shape, curve it to look > solid, glue a couple of pieces of the cutting scraps across the back to > hold the thing curved. Start with white board and colour it with paint, > markers, or even crayon. Copy a real African mask you find in a book, or > invent something which looks right. >> > >Yeah, I've got some great pics I've pulled off-line, but was kinda hoping for >something a little sturdier than paper. This is for a traveling troupe, and >they apparently take stuff on the road, around to schools, etc., and so I >wanted something that could get banged around and hold up okay. I guess that >they make pretty heavy papers, but I'd love to get some thin wood and curve >it. Just don't have much time to put something together. Do two layers glued together with chicken wire in between. Use a lot of glue, and tape the edges together. Done right, paper mache is as strong as particle board. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 05:46:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA20490 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 05:46:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA21768; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:57:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA29887 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:50:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA29660 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:50:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.111] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10EWSf-0004iS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 02:50:09 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990221024521.00b6ea90@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 02:48:41 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 In-Reply-To: <000301be577e$4b396120$eb17ffd0@default> References: <3.0.6.16.19990212133240.2fa76c5a@tiac.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows There are 8 quilted petticoats from roughly this period in Nancy Bradfield's 'Costume in Detail'. All are drawn well enough that you can get a useable sample of the pattern. The first one shown is duplicated in Janet Arnold's 'Patterns of Fashion' if you'd like a measured pattern for it. >I'm looking for something which would have been wholecloth >quilted on silk or silk satin, circa 1730, Anglo-Irish, ie >quilted in England, Ireland, or elsewhere in Europe. Its >usually (if I can say that from the few items I've seen) >diamond quilted above and with a foot-wide (plus) horizontal >border of quilted flowers, feathers, leaves, seashells, or >scrollwork at the base, almost matellesse in appearance. >The construction is not an issue, I don't think--its >generally 3 45" widths or 6 22" widths of silk wide, >gathered or pleated and tied, or a drawstring at the waist, >and no special shaping. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 05:46:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA20493 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 05:46:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA21777; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:57:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA29863 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:50:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA29643 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:50:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.111] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10EWSd-0004iS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 02:50:08 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990221022152.00adc660@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 02:38:44 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: Elizabethan Gloves, making your own In-Reply-To: <000d01be5764$2106ea40$b314ffd0@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I foolishly spent part of my vacation in some out-of-town bookstores, and turned up a copy of Gwen Emlyn-Jones's 1974 book 'Make Your Own Gloves' (ISBN 0-684-14105-1). In the book are several sizes of patterns, detailed cutting and sewing techniques, several photos of several different historical gloves, "everything"! As I was reading the below description, I was looking at the gloves shown in fig.3, p.10, and the older pair in the picture might as well have been the ones described. This pair is from the Museum of Leathercraft, wherever that is, and is labeled as being mens' gloves. BTW, what shape is the actual thumb seam? Oval like an armhole seam? Or does the thumb have any of those little tabs in it like modern gloves have, interrupting the oval seam between the thumb and first finger? If tab-shaped things, where are they and what shape? >In *English Women in Life and Letters,* by M. Phillips and >W. S. Tomkinson, Oxford University Press, Humphrey Milford, >1926, there's a full page photograph of the gloves presented >to Queen Elezabeth when she visited Oxford Sept 6, 1566, now >in the Ashmolean Museum at Oxford. My copy comes from the >public library in Bryn Mawr, PA. The gloves are white kid, >embroidered with gold, with long narrow tapered fingers. >Very lovely in their slender, tapered proportions. There's >a border of embroidery around the base of the thumb and all >over the 5-6" gauntlet. the gauntlet edge at the top of the >glove is fringed, fringe about 1-3/4 inches long. There are >three edge-picoted and embroidered tabs which probably >connect the open edges of the gauntlet at the back edge of >the hand opposite the thumb. And a little bit of embroidery >between the gauntlet and the thumb. There is a seam running >from the intersection of the first two fingers staight down >to the thumb piece. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 05:46:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA20492 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 05:46:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id DAA21780; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:57:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id DAA29862 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:50:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id DAA29620 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:50:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.111] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10EWSc-0004iS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 02:50:06 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990221020136.00bf89f0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 02:05:38 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 In-Reply-To: <000501be56dc$255872e0$b314ffd0@default> References: <4.1.19990212081821.00afae70@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I actually did a hand quilted petticoat as part of a joke costume. I figured the joke would be funnier if the stitches were by hand - I did the 1780 in Janet Arnold all in cammoflage cloth. The petticoat said 'Don't Tread On Me' over a coiled snake, all in quilting. At three stitches to the inch it took me about 4 (8-hour) days to do the quilting. Fortunately I was a housewife then and had the time to devote to the project. >No you won't get shot, I did consider it. Sturbridge >Village and Old Fort William use visible machine stitching. >Machine quilting is an art all its own, and I don't do it >(yet, anyway). I have a tiny group of players, and an >extremely mixed audience---on the one hand every third >grader in town is schlepped through the house, but in the >summer, the place is staffed and visited by Philosophy Ph.D. >profs and students from all over the world. I think the >former group needs to come face to face with the old >technology, and the latter group would just love the heck >out of it. Now it is unlikely that I will accomplish any >hand or machine quilting in my lifetime, but the producer in >me says there is a hobbyist out there in town somewhere just >waiting for this good public cause. Wish me luck! Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 07:46:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA20892 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 07:46:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA27689; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 05:57:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA29826 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 05:50:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from m13.boston.juno.com (m13.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.193]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA29819 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 05:50:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kiri5@juno.com) by m13.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D3YXAWDM; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 07:49:58 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 07:44:55 -0500 Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #156 Message-ID: <19990221.074458.13686.0.kiri5@juno.com> References: <199902200031.RAA06850@indra.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-32,46-47,61-62,64-65 From: Bette Anne Adams Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Bette Anne Adams > >------------------------------ > >From: Margo Anderson >Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:34:50 -0800 (PST) >Subject: H-COST: 19th century drawers > >- -Poster: Margo Anderson > >I'm trying to find out when ankle length drawers (pantalettes?) were >worn. >I've seen them in an 1830's painting, but that was with a riding >habit. >While I've read that they were worn during the hoopskirt period >because the >legs were easily revealed by tilting hoops, I've seen a number of >existing >drawers, and they all seem to be about knee length. I suppose this >may be >because if the longer ones went out of style, they were easily >shortened. >When I worked at the Dickens Christmas Fair (okay, not exactly a >bastion of >authenticity), we were all supposed to wear them. So when were these >things >worn? And does anyone know where my copy of Cunnington is? > >Margo Margo, Pantallets were a very short lived fad of the 1830's. They went out almost as fast as they came in. They were different from drawers in that they were totally decorative. Children continued to wear their undergarments exposed as their dresses became shorter, but adult women shortened their drawers to just below the knee as the length of the skirt dropped from just at or above ankle length to the floor. So, for Dickens, drawers would be appropriate, pantallets would not. By the 1860's drawers were worn to the mid calf and at first were rather plain with maybe a tuck or two, sometimes some insertion or Swiss (machine made) embroidery at the edges. They were split crotched, and usually on a waistband. Some were on a yoked waistband to decrease bulk around the hip. White was the invariable color, although colored knickers could be worn over them for warmth out of doors. By mid-decade even the children's drawers were hidden from sight. Per your question about beading. Beading during the 1850's and early 1860's was used, but sparingly. It was usually seen as part of a passamenterie on outerwear. Beading was usually of jet, black glass or natural. Towards mid-decade beading became more usual at first in accessories and evening garments and then formal day wear. This coincided with the increased use of tulle puffings and draped ruffles in evening wear. Crystal and jet beads were nestled in the ruched lines of the puffings which were anchored to book muslin backings to keep their shape. Beads were also used to embellish the front edges of bonnets and hats and to edge and embroider veils. Prior to this, spangles were the most general mode of applying glitter to a garment. Worth's spangled tulle ballgowns were pretty much a fixture by the very early 1860's. Spangles were also used on more substantial fabrics as part of embroideries. Hope I have been of some help. Perhaps Fran Grimble could jump in here, I know she has written several books on Victorian Costuming. Bette Anne Adams ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 10:55:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21564 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 10:55:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA09981; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:07:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA10710 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:00:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA10697 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:00:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA13955 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 08:51:21 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 08:51:19 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan, anyone? In-Reply-To: <199902210454.UAA22035@zeus.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > After the way "Sense and Sensibility" and "Titanic" influenced fashion in > the last few years, what do you supposed the popularity of "Shakespeare in > Love" and "Elizabeth" will lead to? Can we hope for brocades, lace ruffs, > and ropes of pearls to be fashionable next year? Well, yesterday on "All My Children" (my one vice) a woman got married in a bright red Elizabethan type gown and she had a white neck ruff. She looked great. Sylvia R Divinity Designs http://www.d-e-designs.com/divinity/ 515 Manhattan Drive, #203 sylvia@netherworld.com Boulder, CO 80303 USA complete catalog on website _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 11:18:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21666 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 11:18:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA12244; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:29:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA12403 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:22:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail5.carolina.rr.com (fe5.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.52]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA12395 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:22:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from presario400 ([24.93.91.3]) by mail5.carolina.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Sun, 21 Feb 1999 11:19:10 -0500 From: "Gregory Stapleton" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Elizabethan Gloves, making your own Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 11:16:08 -0500 Message-ID: <000901be5db5$7d5f1680$035b5d18@presario400.carolina.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990221022152.00adc660@pop.slip.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gregory Stapleton" >This pair is from the Museum of Leathercraft, wherever that is, and is labeled as being mens' gloves. > The Museum of Leathercraft, if it is still in existence, is / was located in Northampton, England. Founded by John Waterer. Gawain Kilgore / Gregory Stapleton _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 11:22:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21683 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 11:22:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA12922; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:34:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA12736 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:27:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA12729 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:27:07 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id BZCBa04329 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 11:26:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 11:26:25 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Sandy Powell Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 2/20/99 11:35:32 PM, you wrote: <> The latest one....I got in the mail anyway. The cover asks: "Was the Clinton Scandal Good for America?".....or something like that. Sorry, I can't remember the date printed on the cover. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 12:57:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA22149 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:57:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA24239; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 11:08:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA20297 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 11:01:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA20288 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 11:01:37 -0700 (MST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 7AJCa01428 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:00:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2268ba26.36d049b4@aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:00:20 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Sandy Powell Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 2/20/99 11:35:32 PM, you wrote: <> I FOUND IT! And it's a statement, not a question.... "How the Scandal was Good for America" Feb. 22 1999 issue. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 13:58:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA22399 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:58:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA00763; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:09:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA25062 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:02:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA25057 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:02:07 -0700 (MST) From: AliaClaire@aol.com Received: from AliaClaire@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 4KJYa26290 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:54:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1965e105.36d05655@aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:54:13 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Three Tier Gowns Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 214 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com In a message dated 2/19/99 8:35:16 PM EST, penny.creative.outlets@erols.com writes: << Still have not seen those all pastel ruffled gowns portrayed in magazines. >> I have seen several of them...they were most popular in the mid to late 1850s, which drives me nuts...I love them, and they're too old for my reenacting character. Anyway. I haven't seen all that many original dresses, but some of what I have seen include a cream with green and red plaid, three flounces, Kent State Museum, a BEAUTIFUL bronze and blue plaid, three flounces, at Kent State, with pinked edges. Also, from what I have noted in a fashion magazines of the period: flounces appearing in day dresses went out in about 1859-1860, but they continue to appear on evening gowns until 1863. I understand this- the delicate, sheer fabrics common on evening gowns are stunning when layers of flounces give the colour more depth. Glenna, any other comments? -Alison Stacy AliaClaire@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 14:14:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA22471 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:14:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA02484; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:25:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA26428 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:18:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (antiochus-fe0.ultra.net [146.115.8.188]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA26414 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:18:28 -0700 (MST) From: sustre@pixelations.com Received: from [146.115.69.9] (d9.dial-1.wor.ma.ultra.net [146.115.69.9]) by antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with ESMTP id OAA18621 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:18:30 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: amanda@pixelations.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:22:32 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re:1850's questions Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: sustre@pixelations.com I've been thinking about the "madame" clothing question and have these thoughts, for what they might be worth... I believe the type of clothing worn by such a woman would be very dependent on the community. I can think of 2 main areas of importance: the size of the community, and the relative newness of it. This mainly has to do with how much community members can be expected to know about each other. In a small, well-established community, all members can be expected to actually know each other, at least by sight- even if they don't Officially Know someone. A person of "disreputable" prominence would be notorious enough to be widely recognized. I think that, unless her tastes ran differently, the owner of the "best house in town" would be inclined to dress very respectably- her sheer *presence* on the street would be enough "advertising", as it would be followed by murmurs, and the contrast between the respecatble look and the racy profession would pique the interest of the wealthier, "respectable" potential clients. In a new and/or large community, she'd likely need more explicit cues, not being able to count on recognition for the effect. Still, I think the owner of the *best* house would tend toward subtlety rather than flash- looking more respectable would be likely to increase the prices clients would be willing to pay. In a very new place with no social order, like a mining camp, flash would be required, I think. Now, the owner of the *second-best* house would likely be flashier- she's competing with the best, after all, and more obvious would likely improve visibility (as in modern advertising campaigns). I'm by no means an expert in any of this- it's based on reading fiction from a variety of periods (not modern-written) and a lot of thought about community and social structures. -Amanda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 15:16:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22783 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:16:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA08912; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:28:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA01512 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:21:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com [207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA01506 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:21:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.215 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:20:35 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:44:22 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be5dd8$5e2429e0$d714ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990221024521.00b6ea90@pop.slip.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I love Nancy Bradfield's book, but hadn't been able to access it since this project started. Glad to hear it contains so many quilted petticoats. She starts with 1730, which is my date, so I will have to be somewhat judicious about selecting a pattern. Fortunately I think many of the quilting patterns span a wide time frame. Coincidentally, I just broke down and ordered the paperback version of *Costume in Detail* from Amazon.com last night. With a hefty discount, it still $28, but well worth it now as my library copy of it walked off the shelf about 6 months ago, never to return. Yes, I have Arnold, so we've got the pattern down pat here! Heeding the complaint of one of our list members and earning a living, her *The Edwardian Modiste* was in the same order! (Focusing on any one thing is not one of my strong points!) Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Sunday, February 21, 1999 5:49 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Quilted petticoat pattern c. 1700-1730 -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows There are 8 quilted petticoats from roughly this period in Nancy Bradfield's 'Costume in Detail'. All are drawn well enough that you can get a useable sample of the pattern. The first one shown is duplicated in Janet Arnold's 'Patterns of Fashion' if you'd like a measured pattern for it. >I'm looking for something which would have been wholecloth >quilted on silk or silk satin, circa 1730, Anglo-Irish, ie >quilted in England, Ireland, or elsewhere in Europe. Its >usually (if I can say that from the few items I've seen) >diamond quilted above and with a foot-wide (plus) horizontal >border of quilted flowers, feathers, leaves, seashells, or >scrollwork at the base, almost matellesse in appearance. >The construction is not an issue, I don't think--its >generally 3 45" widths or 6 22" widths of silk wide, >gathered or pleated and tied, or a drawstring at the waist, >and no special shaping. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 15:16:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22782 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:16:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA08815; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA01480 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:20:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com [207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA01466 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:20:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.215 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:20:21 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Elizabethan Gloves, making your own Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:30:41 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be5dd8$5406bf40$d714ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990221022152.00adc660@pop.slip.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" The black and white photograph I had showed only one view of the gloves, and the photo itself was not of the best clarity. Sorry, I cannot answer any of these questions on the basis of that photograph. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Sunday, February 21, 1999 5:39 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Elizabethan Gloves, making your own -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I foolishly spent part of my vacation in some out-of-town bookstores, and turned up a copy of Gwen Emlyn-Jones's 1974 book 'Make Your Own Gloves' (ISBN 0-684-14105-1). In the book are several sizes of patterns, detailed cutting and sewing techniques, several photos of several different historical gloves, "everything"! As I was reading the below description, I was looking at the gloves shown in fig.3, p.10, and the older pair in the picture might as well have been the ones described. This pair is from the Museum of Leathercraft, wherever that is, and is labeled as being mens' gloves. BTW, what shape is the actual thumb seam? Oval like an armhole seam? Or does the thumb have any of those little tabs in it like modern gloves have, interrupting the oval seam between the thumb and first finger? If tab-shaped things, where are they and what shape? >In *English Women in Life and Letters,* by M. Phillips and >W. S. Tomkinson, Oxford University Press, Humphrey Milford, >1926, there's a full page photograph of the gloves presented >to Queen Elezabeth when she visited Oxford Sept 6, 1566, now >in the Ashmolean Museum at Oxford. My copy comes from the >public library in Bryn Mawr, PA. The gloves are white kid, >embroidered with gold, with long narrow tapered fingers. >Very lovely in their slender, tapered proportions. There's >a border of embroidery around the base of the thumb and all >over the 5-6" gauntlet. the gauntlet edge at the top of the >glove is fringed, fringe about 1-3/4 inches long. There are >three edge-picoted and embroidered tabs which probably >connect the open edges of the gauntlet at the back edge of >the hand opposite the thumb. And a little bit of embroidery >between the gauntlet and the thumb. There is a seam running >from the intersection of the first two fingers staight down >to the thumb piece. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 15:16:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22789 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:16:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA08938; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:28:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA01529 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:21:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA01518 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:21:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.215 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:20:42 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Elizabethan, anyone? Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:00:34 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be5dd8$62a12680$d714ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <199902210454.UAA22035@zeus.directcon.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" In Paris,fashion originates in the streets. Be bold and follow suit! Stays and corsets have crept into the pattern catalogs as bodices. A friend showed up at a party last summer in a sleeveless flowered cotton brocade print vest with huge pearls sewn onto it. Bugs are big this year, and should find their way into fashion, just as Queen Elizabeth I used to wear them on her dresses and in her hair! -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Margo Anderson Sent: Saturday, February 20, 1999 11:54 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Elizabethan, anyone? -Poster: Margo Anderson After the way "Sense and Sensibility" and "Titanic" influenced fashion in the last few years, what do you supposed the popularity of "Shakespeare in Love" and "Elizabeth" will lead to? Can we hope for brocades, lace ruffs, and ropes of pearls to be fashionable next year? I hope so! Margo ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 15:44:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22903 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:44:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA13168; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:56:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA03661 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:48:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA03652 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:48:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r3p30.directcon.net [206.170.184.129]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07841 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:41:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:41:55 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902212041.MAA07841@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re:1850's questions Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 03:22 PM 2/21/99 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: sustre@pixelations.com > >I've been thinking about the "madame" clothing question and have these >thoughts, for what they might be worth... > >I believe the type of clothing worn by such a woman would be very dependent >on the community. I can think of 2 main areas of importance: the size of >the community, and the relative newness of it. This mainly has to do with >how much community members can be expected to know about each other. > Thanks! These are very interesting, well thought out comments. I'll be wearing this costume in Placerville, California, which during the 1850's was a flourishing Gold rush town of around 20,000. While I agree that the character would in actuality have dressed with restraint, theatricality does rear its head. If I make her too subtle, no one will know who, or what, she is! Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 16:46:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23220 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 16:46:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA20116; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:58:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA08604 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:50:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA08596 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:50:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from gia-g (dialup322.serv.net [207.207.70.215]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA12900 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:50:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002001be5de4$c42c0b20$d746cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: H-COST: Figuring out elizabethan Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:54:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Greetings, list! I sent this earlier but didn't see it get posted...I hope this makes it this time, cuz I'd really like the input from the list members. I'm going to be taking the plunge soon and start working on elizabethans for myself. I've done a couple of elizabethans for my littlest, to 'practice' cartridge pleating and sewing techniques stuff. What's happening now, is I'm trying to get my documentation together (*before* I even cut out my muslins!) for the cut and assembly of the elizabethan and I'm *really* getting confused about some of the stuff I've dug up! I've been starting with reviewing Janet Arnold's "Pattern's of Fashion,... c1560-1620" and Juan de Alcega's "Tailor's Pattern Book 1589". I'm confused by the use of the term Janet uses: "gown". To me the term 'gown' infers that the skirt and bodice are joined, which I guess is a modern interpretation. All I've 'heard' of, and instructed to do, is for the bodice and skirts to be separate, not joined at the waist seam at all. I looked at Drea's *wonderful* web page; there's alot of information there! But (unless I was looking in the wrong place) I didn't see the answer to my specific questions there. A friend told me that the use of the term 'gown' by Janet was to convey the 'outfit in entirety' (pair of bodies, overskirt, petticoat), and not the modern interpretation of joined at the waist seam. To further confuse me, Janet does give great details for doublets, foreparts, petticoats (skirts), 'pair of bodies', farthingales, corsets and all the pictures of construction, tabs, and boning. In her schematics, she seems to include all the little details of the 'outer shell' of the extant garments, but I don't seem to see any waistbands for the skirts. Is it because it's presumed that the reader would know? Or is it because the specific references are *not* 'english' elizabethan? Or does that even matter? I'll list only a *few* specifics from each of the books, where the confusion starts: Page 40 caption for picture 286 "Back of Eleanora of Toledo's satin bodice from the gown in which she was buried (pages 102-4), Beneath it are fragments of her red velvet bodice or 'pair of bodies' which fastened at the front with hooks and eyes. Palazzo Pitti, Florence" Page 42, picture & caption 297 "Velvet gown on pages 105-6 worn by Grafin Katharina zur Lippe when she was buried, aged six, in 1600, Lippisches Landesmuseumm, Detmold." Page 47, picture & caption 334 " Rich russet velvet gown worn by Pfalzgrafin Dorothea Sabina von Neuberg, with a petticoat of soft green silk (pages 113-14), 1598. Bayerisches Nationalmuseum, Munich." Page 48 Pictures & captions from 340 & 341 340: "Cut and uncut patterned velvet gown on pages 115 - 16 worn by Pfalzgrafin Dorothea Maria von Sulzbach. The deep shoulder wings are trimmed with wilk braid. The cut is similare to gowns in the Spanish tailor's books (fig 36)..." 341: It's actually the picture in this case that is causing confusion. The caption is about the silk braid, but when I look at the picture, it looks like the skirt and bodice are sewn together at the seam. Does anyone have a better picture? In Juan's book, in the "Main Notes", # 33 : " Manteo, a semi-circular intermediate skirt, also called a Faldlin. It had a waist-band and was sometimes reversible, oopen in front or worn inside out (de vuelta). It wa worn over the basic undergarment, the shift, and under the outer skirt (vasquina), kirtle, or saya, petticoat or skirt with bodice. (Bernis, 1962, pp. 96, 107) On page 47, f.63, the caption for the pattern lay out is: "Skirt and bodice of cloth with puffed sleeves." Same page, f.63a & 64, the captions read, " Skirt [with bodice] of cloth for a woman." I noticed in the layouts he doesn't show the layouts for the small stuff like the tabs, armsceyes wings and he doesn't specify them either, generally saying trims are cut out of the cabbage. Again, does he presume then that the user of his patterns would know that the skirt would go on a waistband? These books seems to support my thoughts that the bodice and the skirt are *sometimes* joined, but don't want to jump to conclusions. So I thought I'd put my questions before the collective knowledge of this list. I'll keep looking for other sources and review the inventory in QEWU and see what I find there, too. Thank you! Gia/Giacinta costuming nut, researchaholic _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 17:38:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23623 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:38:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA26179; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:50:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA15046 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:43:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com (mail1.sirius.com [205.134.253.131]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA14918 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:42:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.134.245.34] (ppp-asok05--034.sirius.net [205.134.245.34]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA18093 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:42:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902212242.OAA18093@mail1.sirius.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re:1850's questions Date: Sun, 21 Feb 99 14:42:48 -0800 x-sender: haggis@pop.sirius.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Pelikan To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Pelikan >I'll be >wearing this costume in Placerville, California, which during the 1850's >was a flourishing Gold rush town of around 20,000. While I agree that the >character would in actuality have dressed with restraint, theatricality >does rear its head. If I make her too subtle, no one will know who, or >what, she is! Margo, Based on experience reenacting Gold Rush with the G.R.H.A., the only way to stand out is to be as subtle and as authentic as possible. Of course, we are portraying ordinary, repectable married ladies- specialty impressions are not encouraged by the G.R.H.A.. The women who live in the towns we have reenacted in have invariable turned out wearing a barmaid/postitute costume that is a cross between _Gunsmoke_ and _The Rocky Horror Picture Show_.:) Do not strike a match anywhere near these polyester prostitutes-instant meltdown! I suppose the reason these women wear this costume is because it is what they "think" women of that era wore- based on the impression given by hundreds of movie and television westerns. Seeing us dressed correctly for the era is quite a revelation for these for these women. Nadine Pelikan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 19:04:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA23986 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 19:04:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA07352; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:16:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA23455 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:08:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com [207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA23445 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:08:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.141 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 16:08:12 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: 18th cent. fabrics Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 19:11:30 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be5df8$29c37320$e322ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I absolutely love these Dutch fabrics you showed us at http://quiltedjourney.com/dutch.htm. I have a basic question about all of them regarding the dye hues. I wonder if some of them have been recolored to be more appealing to modern tastes. I am a little skeptical of the one with a pale sea-green background, and also the ones with brilliant lavender accents. I don't know enough about this subject to condemn the prints for historical reenactment purposes, and hope someone out there can advise. I e-mailed the manufacturer, but haven't heard any response yet. The prints are beautiful, and outshine most of what I've seen in the DAR collection, the equivalent this side of the ocean. The block printed examples are in the spirit of Indian imports going all the way back to before 1700, so in terms of pattern, they can be justified, in my opinion, for the whole century. Roller printing came along about 1725, and became much more widespread later. Copperplate printing dates from about 1762, again with most of it being later. I could be off a bit on these dates. I can't tell if any of them are roller printed, but the roller printed patterns tend to be stripey, continuous lines of flower garlands, etc. Copperplate printing is distinguished by intense fine exactness of lines and pin-point dots, which was only possible using etched metal printing blocks. There are background dots in some pieces, which looks like a block or roller print mimicking a copperplate print, but that still dates it to the latter third of the 18th century. If anyone can shed some more light on this, I would be highly interested, as I would love to use these if they can be justified. Along the same lines, does anyone know of French, Italian, or German sources of historic printed fabrics? Hope H. Dunlap Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Susan Courney Sent: Thursday, February 18, 1999 4:56 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: 18th cent. fabrics -Poster: Susan Courney Hi, I've been collecting the bits to make some 18th cent. outfits. A quilting friend sent me a link to a page that included this -- "These wonderful fabrics from the Netherlands offer rich color tones in authentic Dutch patterns reproduced from original antique fabrics, quilts and costumes found in the museums of the Netherlands." Its: http://quiltedjourney.com/dutch.htm The question is, they don't have dates. Would some of these work for 18th c.? They look close to me, but I really don't know much about that period. Susan Courney (I have jpryans corset and jacket pattern and period impressions jacket and polonaise pattern should be showing up any day now. I really want to start with a robe a l'anglaise, but couldn't find a pattern that looks like the one in my mind.)_ ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 19:06:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24002 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 19:06:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA07244; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:15:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA23238 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:07:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA23222 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:07:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p19.directcon.net [206.170.184.68]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA01882 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 16:01:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 16:01:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902220001.QAA01882@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re:1850's questions Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 02:42 PM 2/21/99 -0800, you wrote: >Based on experience reenacting Gold Rush with the G.R.H.A., I'm not familiar with this organization. Information, please? As to informing by accuracy, yes, it's a good idea. However, salemanship demands that I be a bit more flashy, if only to intrigue the polyester barmaids. I'm new to this era of reenacting, but I have many years of working Ren Faires behind me. I've always found that it's much easier to get a farbly costumed person interested in accuracy if I'm wearing a jewel encrusted noblewoman's gown, rather than a wool bodice and skirts in muted colors with a modest neckline. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 19:16:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24044 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 19:16:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA09298; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:27:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA24417 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:20:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com [207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA24395 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:20:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.32 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 16:20:07 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: 18th Century Dutch Fabrics Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 19:24:07 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be5df9$d5070700$e322ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Oooops, just as I was sending my last post on this subject, I found the reponse from QuiltedJourney.com to our questions, include here for the List. The prints are mostly very ancient, 17th Century Indian, but they have been recolored to appeal taste, some more than others I suspect, so I wouldn't discount them at all. They are gorgeous. And if your character is artsy, just tell the crowd you've handpainted the accents to get the unusual colors. Here is Quilted Journey's response, along with my original questions. Dear Hope, Here is the information I have available: Our Dutch fabrics are reproductions of prints on display in the Netherlands Open Air Museum in Arnhem. The fabric designer has reduced the size of the designs and fantasized with color (which explains the lilac dye) to make these reproduction prints doubly attractive to quilters. The collection of chintzes, designed and printed in Holland, are based on antique documents from the Netherlands and the low countries. Many of the original designs were brought back during the 17th century by merchants trading for the Dutch East India Trading Company on India's Coromandel coast. The designs were widely copied in the Netherlands and France in the 18th century. Original designs were used for interior decorating as well as in Dutch national costumes. Some prints are taken from the collections of 'Overtooms Welvaren' the famous 18th century Amsterdam cotton printer and others from 'Non plus Ultra' from Rotterdam. I hope this is helpful. Jan Loomer Quilted Journey -----Original Message----- From: Hope H. Dunlap To: sales@quiltedjourney.com Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 7:33 PM Subject: 18th Century Costume >I am working on a living history site which needs block >printed chintzes and patterned fabrics cotton, cotton/linen >, and linen. Your Dutch fabrics are sensational. I need >some authenticity confirmation for their use in 1725-1730. >Do you think these can be documented back to patterns in use >in Holland that early? Were they traded to Dublin? Dublin >did tremendous trade with Holland at the time, but would >have been forbidden to import an all-cotton product. I'm >not going to get to crazy about authentic fiber content as >long as it's one of the above. But what about the pattern? >The lilac dye is a little suspect. Any information? What >Museum in Holland do the fabrics come from? > >Hope H. Dunlap > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 19:56:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24236 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 19:56:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA15483; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:07:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA27695 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:00:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from aventurine.sge.net (aventurine.sge.net [152.91.14.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA27688 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:00:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from titanium.sge.net (firewall-user@titanium.sge.net [152.91.9.2]) by aventurine.sge.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03795 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:00:24 +1100 (EST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by titanium.sge.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA08666 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:00:23 +1100 (EST) Received: from kryptonite.sge.net(10.1.2.11) by titanium.sge.net via smap (3.2) id xma008335; Mon, 22 Feb 99 11:59:50 +1100 Received: from amber. (ice-int2.sge.net [10.1.2.254]) by kryptonite.sge.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA07638 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:59:48 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199902220059.LAA07638@kryptonite.sge.net> From: WICKHAM Raymond To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Elizabethan, anyone? Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:48:22 +1100 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: WICKHAM Raymond Hi folks The Madi Gras in Sydney is on this week end I'll see if any one the participants are inspired by the Movies Ray > In Paris,fashion originates in the streets. Be bold and > follow suit! Stays and corsets have crept into the pattern > catalogs as bodices. A friend showed up at a party last > summer in a sleeveless flowered cotton brocade print vest > with huge pearls sewn onto it. Bugs are big this year, and > should find their way into fashion, just as Queen Elizabeth > I used to wear them on her dresses and in her hair! > > After the way "Sense and Sensibility" and "Titanic" > influenced fashion in > the last few years, what do you supposed the popularity of > "Shakespeare in > Love" and "Elizabeth" will lead to? Can we hope for > brocades, lace ruffs, > and ropes of pearls to be fashionable next year? > > I hope so! > > Margo > > > ____________________________________________________________ > _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 21:28:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA24905 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 21:28:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA28626; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 19:38:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA05699 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 19:31:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA05692 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 19:31:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p19.directcon.net [206.170.184.68]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA21639 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:24:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:24:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902220224.SAA21639@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: Leine sleeves, yet again. Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson I'm looking for citations to refute the idea that 16th century Irish leines had those huge sleeves that are popular in ren Faire circles. You know theones: they are usually pleated, gathered, or have a drawstring sewn into them. Striking as they are, I'm under the impression that they are a costume myth, mainly based on misinterpreting a drawing or painting of a wide, open sleeve pushed up on the wearer's arm to form folds of fabric. i know we've discussed this several times over the years, but I've been searching the archives for two hours without sucess. Part of the problem is my tendancy to get distracted by fascinating posts on completely unrelated subjects. It's also frustrating that the search engine, when you tell it to look for "leine", also comes up with every single mention of words containing that word, such as "chateleine" or "Madeleine". (I know it's not your fault, Eric, and thanks for providing the archives.) Help! Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 22:15:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA25105 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 22:15:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA05568; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 20:27:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA09529 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 20:19:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA09518 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 20:19:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc1010062-a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with SMTP id <19990222031953.GHGN14154.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062-a> for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 19:19:53 -0800 Message-ID: <0bc501be5e12$54bdcde0$cb860318@cc1010062-a.avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Leine sleeves, yet again. Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 22:20:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" I'd suggest you go to http://reconstructinghistory.com/fenians/IrishClothes.htm I'm pretty sure that Kass may monitor this mailing list and so might interject. Thought I'd say that I was at a talk she gave last week where my favorite thing she said was that she wanted to cry when it was lunch time and ask someone to feed her so she didn't have to wash off the 300+ year old dust from her hands. Anyway, she has been to Ireland and the bowels of some museums there recently. Her new notes on the Shinrone gown and Leines are there. Basically, the bag sleeves are very much correct. HOWEVER, what is incorrect is the concept of pleats or drawstrings on the upper arm. To describe the sleeve in words, it would be shoulder to wrist length on the top of the arm and bagged at the underside. She has drawings at the URL mentioned above. Also, she was very helpful and would probably answer any questions sent via email in case she doesn't read this mailing list. Suz Kyna Grannd granndgarb.com > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >I'm looking for citations to refute the idea that 16th century Irish leines >had those huge sleeves that are popular in ren Faire circles. You know >theones: they are usually pleated, gathered, or have a drawstring sewn into >them. Striking as they are, I'm under the impression that they are a >costume myth, mainly based on misinterpreting a drawing or painting of a >wide, open sleeve pushed up on the wearer's arm to form folds of fabric. > >i know we've discussed this several times over the years, but I've been >searching the archives for two hours without sucess. Part of the problem is >my tendancy to get distracted by fascinating posts on completely unrelated >subjects. It's also frustrating that the search engine, when you tell it to >look for "leine", also comes up with every single mention of words >containing that word, such as "chateleine" or "Madeleine". (I know it's not >your fault, Eric, and thanks for providing the archives.) > >Help! > >Margo Anderson > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 22:45:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA25223 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 22:45:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA08976; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 20:56:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA12035 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 20:49:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.gmx.net (qmailr@mail1.gmx.net [195.63.104.61]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id UAA12022 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 20:49:15 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902220349.UAA12022@indra.com> Received: (qmail 20105 invoked by uid 0); 22 Feb 1999 03:49:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jacomo) (203.216.65.95) by mail1.gmx.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 1999 03:49:14 -0000 X-Sender: marquise_de_pompadour@gmx.net@pop.gmx.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:47:02 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pompadour Subject: H-COST: 1880s skirt drapery Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id WAA25223 Status: O -Poster: Pompadour hi list, i sent this earlier but didn't get my more pressing questions answered, so i'm trying again... i have only a sketch of the drapery pattern. according to it,  it's about a metre wide and 3.5 metres long and completely asymmetric. am i looking at half of the pattern, or is the drapery really supposed to be asymmetric - and 7 (seven!) metres long? as for the draping technique: i honly have a numberof little x'es and dots to mark the folds. does anybody on this list know enough about draperies to interpret it and maybe even imagine what the finished drapery would look like? the illustration of the finished  garment is missing as well. (there was a reply that the pattern was only a guideline - well, ok, but i don't even know how to use the guideline. because i don't know where it leads.) thanks in advance.... yo marquise_de_pompadour@gmx.net - www.costumegallery.com/pompadour/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 23:31:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA25425 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 23:31:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA15029; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 21:42:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA15681 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 21:35:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (root@jefferson.patriot.net [206.151.9.249]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA15659 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 21:35:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.151.9.11] (th-0-2.patriot.net [206.151.9.11]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA00440 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 23:34:26 -0500 Message-Id: <199902220434.XAA00440@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: RE: H-COST: 18th cent. fabrics Date: Sun, 21 Feb 99 23:34:42 -0500 x-sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hope H. Dunlap wrote, >I absolutely love these Dutch fabrics you showed us at >http://quiltedjourney.com/dutch.htm. I have a basic >question about all of them regarding the dye hues. I wonder >if some of them have been recolored to be more appealing to >modern tastes. The fact that the same pattern is offered in different colorways tells me that they are not all copied exactly from originals. The pale green doesn't look familiar to me, either! >I am a little skeptical of the one with a >pale sea-green background, and also the ones with brilliant >lavender accents. I don't know enough about this subject to >condemn the prints for historical reenactment purposes, and >hope someone out there can advise. They all look a bit dense to me, but I look for 1770s & 1780s patterns. The denser patterns are more charateristic of the late 80s and into the 90s. The dark backgrounds (browns and blacks) were also more fashionable at the end of the century. The early century brocades are usually a larger scale overall, I wonder if the prints were similarly large scale? >I e-mailed the manufacturer, but haven't heard any response yet. Please let us know what you hear! >The prints are beautiful, and outshine most of what I've seen >in the DAR collection, the equivalent this side of the ocean. The DAR collection was made to reproduce the way the fabric looks now, with a yellowed "ecru" background and the yellows (turmeric?) faded from the greenery. Williamsburg recently reproduced a fabric from an original banyan. I think they sell it through their home decorating stores. -Carol Kocian _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 21 23:35:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA25446 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 23:35:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA15475; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 21:47:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA16154 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 21:39:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from centum.utulsa.edu (centum.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.199]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id VAA16135 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 21:39:44 -0700 (MST) Received: by centum.utulsa.edu; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 22:39:42 -0600 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 22:39:42 -0600 From: "I. Marc Carlson" To: sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu CC: H-COSTUME@indra.com Message-Id: <990221223942.147757@centum.utulsa.edu> Subject: H-COST: RE: Arts/Crafts/Money Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" I want to thank everyone who's responded. You have given me a great deal to think about. I think that I will definately want to consider how I charge people for "bespoke" work. I will continue to offer my knowledge for free, to those who want to learn to make their own, and offer my products freely as gifts when I choose to, but seriously reconsider the whole idea of charging and just how much I will charge for commissions. I have no intention of becoming a "merchant", since my preference is for strict research, but even so, when the situation arises, a fair price is the only way to guarantee my efforts are respected (I've had at least one case where I made boots (the price of which would have been about $200, at least) that were made for someone else who promptly trashed them and assumed I'd cheerfully repair them for free). Definately food for thought. Marc/Diarmaid _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 01:16:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA26773 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 01:16:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA24579; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 23:27:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA23890 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 23:19:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA23876 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 23:19:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from blkhrse (ip10.pdx4.pacifier.com [216.65.146.10]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA01506 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 22:19:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902220619.WAA01506@smtp.pacifier.com> From: "Jill & Ralph" To: Subject: H-COST: corset generator Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 22:07:44 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Jill & Ralph" Today I made a corset from the pattern generated for me at http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets I wanted a corset "now" so I used the pattern without any other fitting. It worked great! Just thought ya'll would want to know if you haven't tried it yet. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 09:05:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16467 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:05:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA20493; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:17:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA16931 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:09:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA16924 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:09:25 -0700 (MST) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id DELKa19752 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:08:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:08:24 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: re: 1850's questions Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 61 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com In a message dated 99-02-18 23:39:39 EST, you write: << Margo--I have actually seen and reproduced a day-dress from that period which had no waist seam! It was done entirely princess seamed! Seems that might be easy on alterations. It buttoned entirely down the front, with a small "Peter Pan" style collar and bishop sleeves. >> A day dress like you described is the April feature from Ohio State University costume collection in the 1999 calendar, Historic Fashions of Women & Children. The month also includes a wonderful child's dress modeled after the adult and the child wearing the dress in 1868. Details on the calendars at http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com and we have added articles about the featured collections. January and February are up now. Enjoy, Sally _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 09:52:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16701 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:52:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA26001; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:04:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA22214 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:56:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA22199 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:56:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (pool003-max9.ds21-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.20.153]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA13578 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 06:56:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36D17136.D8929EC9@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:01:11 -0800 From: Karren Schaeffer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Late 1800's Levis References: <4.1.19990221012956.00be3b40@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Karren Schaeffer We have developed an interest in Single Action Shooting and need to dress the part and my fella won't wear anything but jeans. I know Levi's made jeans then, they were higher at the waist than now and had attachments for braces. Has anyone made these? Is there a commercial pattern available. Or am I just being too historic here? Any help would be appreciated, the next costumed event is in April. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 11:05:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16977 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:05:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA06362; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:17:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA04797 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:09:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from post.its.mcw.edu (post-v30.its.mcw.edu [141.106.30.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA04732 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:09:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mschulte@localhost) by post.its.mcw.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29489 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:06:54 -0600 (CST) From: Marie Schulte Message-Id: <199902221606.KAA29489@post.its.mcw.edu> Subject: H-COST: Old Levis To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:06:54 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marie Schulte I thought I heard a piece on NPR *several* years ago about Levi-Strauss buying back old (1800s-ish) Levi jeans for their records. And maybe they mentioned a Levi museum? I don't recall it clearly, but it may be worth contacting someone at Levi-Strauss or checking to see if their San Francisco hdqtrs has a corporate museum (like through a visitors bureau). Good luck! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 11:17:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA17039 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:17:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA08634; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:29:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA07128 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:21:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from fw2.roguewave.com (firewall-user@fw2.roguewave.com [208.151.233.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA07117 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:21:25 -0700 (MST) Received: by fw2.roguewave.com; id IAA10293; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:16:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com(10.68.4.36) via SMTP by net.indra.com, id smtpd010283; Mon Feb 22 08:16:02 1999 Received: by cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id <1X7FZKBH>; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:23:07 -0800 Message-ID: From: Betsy Perry To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: RE: Clothing madames Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:22:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Betsy Perry There are several useful photographs in "Fille de Joie" from Dorset Press, no author given, copyright 1967, ISBN 1-56619-388-5. P.358 shows "Blonde Marie, who worked San Francisco ... and went back to France in 1885 wealthy", "Crazy Horse Lil", and "Pearl Starr, Arksansas madam and daughter of famous madam, Belle Starr." p. 357 has a wonderful full-length photograph of Mattie Silks. I'm afraid reenactors would be disappointed; all four of the ladies are quite respectably dressed, and several are rather stout. Madames often prided themselves on not dressing or behaving like their employees. Not surprisingly, this book is full of nudity and erotic drawings. I assume anybody who wants to reenact a madame can probably cope, but you may get some odd looks from the ILL librarian! --- Elizabeth Hanes Perry Rogue Wave Software _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 11:59:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA17244 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:59:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA15464; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:10:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA14826 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:02:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from postman.csulb.edu (root@postman.csulb.edu [134.139.1.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA14812 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:02:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from csulb.edu ([134.139.208.2]) by postman.csulb.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA27063 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:02:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36D18DFD.D992C17A@csulb.edu> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:03:57 -0800 From: Kathleen Di Vito Organization: CSULB X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Literary characters - OT References: <000901be5ba7$4a5fa200$625dadc7@bchamber> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------C48F06B237243081F46C0A36" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kathleen Di Vito --------------C48F06B237243081F46C0A36 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beth, Hester Prynne from the "The Scarlet Letter" was famous or infamous depending upon your view for the costumes she sewed for her daughter Pearl as well as fine garment she made for others. I believe her speciality was lacemaking. Kathleen Beth wrote: > Does any one know of a literary character who was a seamstress? > Especially one who whose character was defined (some what) by their > sewing. Kind of like sewing's equivalent to Charles Dickens' Madame > Defarge. Beth --------------C48F06B237243081F46C0A36 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beth,

Hester Prynne from  the "The Scarlet Letter" was famous or infamous depending upon your view for the costumes she sewed for her daughter Pearl as well as fine garment she made for others.  I believe her speciality was lacemaking.

Kathleen

Beth wrote:

 Does any one know of a literary character who was a seamstress? Especially one who whose character was defined (some what) by their sewing. Kind of like sewing's equivalent to Charles Dickens' Madame Defarge. Beth
--------------C48F06B237243081F46C0A36-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 12:04:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17268 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:04:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA16637; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:16:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA15792 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:07:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA15770 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:07:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p45.directcon.net [206.170.184.94]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA28010 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:00:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:00:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902221700.JAA28010@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Clothing madames Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 08:22 AM 2/22/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Betsy Perry > >There are several useful photographs in "Fille de Joie" from Dorset >Press, Great! I'll try to get it. >I'm afraid reenactors would be disappointed; all four of the ladies are >quite respectably dressed, and several are rather stout. So am I (stout, not respectably dressed!) >Not surprisingly, this book is full of nudity and erotic drawings. I >assume anybody who wants to reenact a madame can probably cope, but you >may get some odd looks from the ILL librarian! > Luckily, our ILL librarian has known me since I was six and has no illusions about me! She's also an SCA member, so she understands about costume research. Thanks for the info, Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 12:06:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17285 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:06:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA17130; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:18:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA16341 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:10:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA16267 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:10:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.23 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:10:02 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Leine sleeves, yet again. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:14:00 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be5e86$e6abcd00$6f17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199902220224.SAA21639@zeus.directcon.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" The use of drawstrings is something I can't comment on, but period writings and illustrations definitely support lots of fabric, pleats and more pleats. Huge, droopy sleeves to the hip, knee, or ankle show up a lot, but jackets cover up the sleeve in many old illustrations, leaving us to guess precisely what was underneath. The Lucas de Heere watercolors, circa 1570, show bag-style leine sleeves down to the ankle or knee, or just to the hip, depending on which painting you're looking at. The people certainly didn't wear the huge sleeve for everything, nor did all people appear to wear it, but there they are. Period writings mention the volume of fabric, the pleats, and sleeves almost to the ground, again and again. ILL if you have to Henry Foster McClintock's *Old Irish and Highland Dress* printed 1943, 1949 and copyrighted 1950 Dundalgan Press, Dublin or closeby, Ireland. Try also the Palkenham's fairly recent book about Dublin (Pakenham, Thomas and Valerie. *Dublin, A Traveler's Companion,* Great Britian: Constable and Company, and New York: Athenaeum, Macmillan Publishing Company, 1988. ISBN 0-689-70741-X) which is widely available in the travel sections of libraries, and may even still be in print, for a great collection of woodblock prints and period writings from about 1000-1930. I the biggest difference I can see with the leines illustrated on SCA type WebPages and the period illustrations is that the real leines are pictured as a wrap-around style with a shawl (bathrobe-style) collar. It doesn't appear to be a shirt which goes over the head, or if it does, it is worn in a way which disguises that. Also, the de Heere watercolors show a bag style sleeve, not a sleeve like an over-long shirtsleeve which might be gathered up. One arm and hand opening in the upper part of a boy's bag sleeve is even embroidered with red floss to highlight the opening. Mairead Dunlevy's *Dress in Ireland* doesn't address your particular questions in any depth, but there are some woodblock illustrations in there which will help you. Do ILL it too if you have an interest in things Irish, as it is a marvelous book. She tries to cover a lot of ground previously not published, and acknowledges McClintock's previous and massive contribution. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Margo Anderson Sent: Sunday, February 21, 1999 9:24 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Leine sleeves, yet again. -Poster: Margo Anderson I'm looking for citations to refute the idea that 16th century Irish leines had those huge sleeves that are popular in ren Faire circles. You know theones: they are usually pleated, gathered, or have a drawstring sewn into them. Striking as they are, I'm under the impression that they are a costume myth, mainly based on misinterpreting a drawing or painting of a wide, open sleeve pushed up on the wearer's arm to form folds of fabric. i know we've discussed this several times over the years, but I've been searching the archives for two hours without sucess. Part of the problem is my tendancy to get distracted by fascinating posts on completely unrelated subjects. It's also frustrating that the search engine, when you tell it to look for "leine", also comes up with every single mention of words containing that word, such as "chateleine" or "Madeleine". (I know it's not your fault, Eric, and thanks for providing the archives.) Help! Margo Anderson ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 12:08:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17303 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:08:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA17474; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:20:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA16629 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:11:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA16593 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:11:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-bg-staff2.mdx.ac.uk) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.1-12 #29137) with ESMTP id <01J81VF75P6S00K882@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:04:49 GMT Received: from MDX-BG-STAFF2/SpoolDir by mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.43); Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:02:29 +0000 (GMT0BST) Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-BG-STAFF2 (Mercury 1.43); Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:01:36 +0000 (GMT0BST) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:01:32 +0000 (GMT) From: Teddy Subject: Re: H-COST: Newton's _Fashion ... Black Prince_ In-reply-to: <199902200031.RAA06850@indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <1C612F042DE@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Teddy > - -Poster: Cindy Myers > > She mentions chroniclers of the time complaining that with the > tighter fashion people couldn't undress by themselves, and had to go > through awkward contortions looking like they were being skinned, > etc. So why all this talk about being buttoned up the front? > > Does anyone have any more information or opinions on this? Hi Cindy I have one very tight fitting cotehardie that buttons all the way up the front and I often appreciate help getting in and out of it. The sleeves are also very tight fitting and button from hand to elbow. Between the close fit on the upper arms and around the shoulders, (even with it fully unbuttoned) I still have to do some... interesting... contortions in order to get my shoulders out of it. I should add that it's wonderfully comfortable when I'm wearing it but when I took it off after the first wearing I had bruises on the inside of my elbows from the tightness of the sleeves. I solved this by trying it on a lad with thicker (more muscular) arms than mine and giving him a pint of beer. His efforts to get the drink to his mout stretched the sleeves *just* enough to prevent them bruising me again... Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 12:10:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17323 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:10:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA17820; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:22:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA17180 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:14:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f104.hotmail.com [207.82.250.223]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id KAA17153 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:14:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 13517 invoked by uid 0); 22 Feb 1999 17:13:34 -0000 Message-ID: <19990222171334.13516.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.206.84.216 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:13:33 PST X-Originating-IP: [208.206.84.216] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: 18th c. topstitching (Military) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:13:33 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" On 18th c. British Regimentals c. 1760 - 1780: Was the preferred color for topstitching all edges: Madder Red, to match the coat, or off-white (linen?) to match the lining? Basically, would the topstitching thread have matched the wool outer shell, or the lining? On civilian originals, we see both cases, but would like to know (if there was any such thing) what the military standard was. Has anyone here seen original British regimentals of this period and would like to comment? If so, where, and can we see them, or is there a picture somewhere on the Internet where we can go & look? Thanks! Susannah ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 12:54:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA23477 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:54:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA28138; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:06:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA28631 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:58:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA28604 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:58:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p8.directcon.net [206.170.184.57]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA05256 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:51:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:51:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902221751.JAA05256@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: RE: H-COST: Leine sleeves, yet again. Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 12:14 PM 2/22/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >The use of drawstrings is something I can't comment on, but >period writings and illustrations definitely support lots of >fabric, pleats and more pleats. Yes, but where? The pictures I've seen don't support the modern version with pleats along the top of the arm. Several of these pictures show the top of the arm quite clearly, and all I see there are folds of fabric, exactly what would result if you took a wide, wrist length sleeve and pushed it up toward your elbow. I wonder if the pleats might be in the armscye? If you took a large rectangle and pleated it into the armscye, then sewed it up to get the bag effect, leaving a wrist opening, you could get that "angel wing" shape. It's possible the pleats were in the body of the liene, too, maybe at the shoulders, to make the body of the garment fuller. Argh! I want a time machine! Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 13:28:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA23644 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:28:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA05821; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:37:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA05433 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:29:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail3.austin.rr.com (fe3.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA05339 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:29:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from cs63-30.austin.rr.com ([24.93.63.30]) by mail3.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:20:04 -0600 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Leine sleeves, yet again. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:37:43 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <36d193f3.41188982@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <000201be5e86$e6abcd00$6f17ffd0@default> In-Reply-To: <000201be5e86$e6abcd00$6f17ffd0@default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id NAA23644 Status: O -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:14:00 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >The use of drawstrings is something I can't comment on, AFAIK the use of drawstrings developed out of the Renfaire community. As I recall being told, people at first came up with it as a way to roughly imitate the pleats (which from my mother's research on the subject were supposed to be carefully laid in place and occasionally secured/decorated/highlighted with a piece of braid, a strip of embriodery or trim of some kind but most often left plain) without having to do the hard work of stitching them individually in place. Kind of a quick n' easy, trim built-in machine method. Later, the convenience and utility of the drawstring was discovered - the sleeves can be pulled up further (besides being pulled back and tucked into the belt) for washing dishes and other messy tasks, or for cooling off a bit in the heat that is usual at faires in the US. They could also be let down a bit for warmth in event of a cold day. So, it is pretty clear to me, from what I've been told, and seen, that drawstrings are a faire/SCA development. My mother does not recall having found any references to drawstrings in her research some 20 years ago, when she designed and made late medieval-rennaisance Irish costumes for the group Sheila na Gig to perform and lecture in at the DeYoung Museum, during the Treasures of Irish Art exhibit in 1977(8?) Mom even remembers some of the early evloution of Irish and Scots costumes at the Northern/Southern California RenFaires, having 'been there' as it were since the second one - so she is really my primary source for that information. Apparently early on there was some argument about whether the Irish even wore the leine (and whether it could be worn by Irish persons at Faire) and she had to take her documentation to the offices and argue it out. This would have been in about 1978 or 9. Margery -----rio@austin.rr.com---Goddess of Last Minute Miracles--- "We went out with both lips blazing, and a pen in either hand..." - the Flash Girls -{*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*}- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 13:28:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA23648 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:28:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA06471; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:41:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA06151 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:33:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA06132 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:33:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.27 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:32:13 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Leine sleeves, yet again. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:36:49 -0500 Message-ID: <000801be5e92$65f761e0$6f17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199902221751.JAA05256@zeus.directcon.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" The pleats show up at the waist when the garment is belted or girdled with a "criss." They also are where the sleeve attaches to the "armsythe"---not really a curved armsythe as we know it, but the selvedge edge opening where the sleeve attaches to the body. The pleats also show up at the wrist, or if its a bag sleeve, at the bottom of the bag where the fabric is gathered together. The www.ReconstructingHistory.com webpages replicate a lot of the period artwork, although the drawings are much clearer in books. If you can just put yourself in front of the period drawings, a lot of these mysteries (but not all!) will evaporate. The pleating was strategically important in soldiers' clothing, as all those layers of pleated linen acted like a crude layered linen armoring jacket---and deflected sword blows. The Scots anyway (also Celts, with similar dress) would tar over those pleats with pitch before a battle to reinforce them, sometimes sticking skins on the top for more battle protection. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Margo Anderson Sent: Monday, February 22, 1999 12:51 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Leine sleeves, yet again. -Poster: Margo Anderson At 12:14 PM 2/22/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >The use of drawstrings is something I can't comment on, but >period writings and illustrations definitely support lots of >fabric, pleats and more pleats. Yes, but where? The pictures I've seen don't support the modern version with pleats along the top of the arm. Several of these pictures show the top of the arm quite clearly, and all I see there are folds of fabric, exactly what would result if you took a wide, wrist length sleeve and pushed it up toward your elbow. I wonder if the pleats might be in the armscye? If you took a large rectangle and pleated it into the armscye, then sewed it up to get the bag effect, leaving a wrist opening, you could get that "angel wing" shape. It's possible the pleats were in the body of the liene, too, maybe at the shoulders, to make the body of the garment fuller. Argh! I want a time machine! Margo ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 13:46:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA23713 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:46:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA10180; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:58:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA09275 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:50:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com [207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA09261 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:50:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.117 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:49:48 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Leine sleeves, yet again. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:53:52 -0500 Message-ID: <000901be5e94$d9312540$6f17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <36d193f3.41188982@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" One 19th Century author who was also puzzling over those pleats surmised that the original Irish leine and heavy over robe were similar to Roman garb. He suggested the leine might have originally been a single piece (perhaps pieced, I don't know) of fabric stretching from wrist to wrist (at a minimum, it could be more!) and from front hem to back hem with a head hole in the middle. (That's a rectangle a minimum of two yards wide (it could be wider) and about 3-4 yards the other way(from your toes up over your shoulders to your heels). The whole thing gets girdled in at the waist, creating an enormous amount of pleats, but there are no pleats actually sewn in at the shoulders. Now if you sliced from the neckhole down the front, you'd be approaching a kimono cut, and then there becomes a way to get that cowled wrap-over front closure and neckline. The slice wouldn't have to go all the way down, maybe just to the waist or so. When you look at all the period illustrations, it becomes clear that there are several versions of the leine, but I do find his theory very plausible both from a historical and a geometrical point of view. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of StrangeGirl Sent: Monday, February 22, 1999 1:38 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Leine sleeves, yet again. -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:14:00 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >The use of drawstrings is something I can't comment on, AFAIK the use of drawstrings developed out of the Renfaire community. As I recall being told, people at first came up with it as a way to roughly imitate the pleats (which from my mother's research on the subject were supposed to be carefully laid in place and occasionally secured/decorated/highlighted with a piece of braid, a strip of embriodery or trim of some kind but most often left plain) without having to do the hard work of stitching them individually in place. Kind of a quick n' easy, trim built-in machine method. Later, the convenience and utility of the drawstring was discovered - the sleeves can be pulled up further (besides being pulled back and tucked into the belt) for washing dishes and other messy tasks, or for cooling off a bit in the heat that is usual at faires in the US. They could also be let down a bit for warmth in event of a cold day. So, it is pretty clear to me, from what I've been told, and seen, that drawstrings are a faire/SCA development. My mother does not recall having found any references to drawstrings in her research some 20 years ago, when she designed and made late medieval-rennaisance Irish costumes for the group Sheila na Gig to perform and lecture in at the DeYoung Museum, during the Treasures of Irish Art exhibit in 1977(8?) Mom even remembers some of the early evloution of Irish and Scots costumes at the Northern/Southern California RenFaires, having 'been there' as it were since the second one - so she is really my primary source for that information. Apparently early on there was some argument about whether the Irish even wore the leine (and whether it could be worn by Irish persons at Faire) and she had to take her documentation to the offices and argue it out. This would have been in about 1978 or 9. Margery -----rio@austin.rr.com---Goddess of Last Minute Miracles--- "We went out with both lips blazing, and a pen in either hand..." - the Flash Girls -{*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*}- ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 14:01:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA23781 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:01:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA12558; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:12:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA12193 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:04:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA12165 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:04:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [209.48.224.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA29520 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:04:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:04:31 -0500 (EST) From: Mara Riley To: H-costume Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 1850 working class In-Reply-To: <36CDA0E6.6017DB88@rust.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Mara Riley > -Poster: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen (snip) > On the other hand, there are accounts from people like Sofia Bost, an > immigrant to the wilds of Minnesota in the 1850's who wrote home to > Europe complaining about how the poor farmer women would come into town > when a preacher came around wearing silk dresses and hoops even though > they were barely scratching a living... Her rather straight laced > religious views may have colored her distaste for such show in church, > but the silks were there. They may have been of poor quality silk or the > dresses may have been restyled a time or too, but at least some poor > frontier women had silk dresses. The same with poor factory girls. They > were reported to have scrimped and saved for Sunday finery. Of course, a > respectable married woman would most likely have other priorities. She's > follow fashion, but in a modest way. If she's doing her daily chores, > she's not wearing hoops, but her skirts will be well down around her > ankles to be sure. I know I've done plenty of bending and lifting work > in those closes, corsets and all. Reminds me of some of the administrative assistants I've met who wore diamond tennis bracelets to work... or a gold Cartier-style bracelet. (Worse yet are the gold anklets under their stockings...) They also tend to dress like something out of Cosmo -- the latest thing, no matter how tacky. The women in the middle-to-top of the office hierarchy generally wear much cheaper (but nice) jewelry, and probably get at least some of their clothes from good-quality consignment shops. Or at least keep them a long time, rather than being the latest word on fashion. I suspect they have really nice jewellry, but don't wear it all the time at the office. Mara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 14:08:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA23806 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:08:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA14720; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:20:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA15003 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:12:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com [207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA14994 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:12:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.207 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:12:04 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Leine sleeves, yet again. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:16:08 -0500 Message-ID: <000a01be5e97$f5d80440$6f17ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <000901be5e94$d9312540$6f17ffd0@default> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Henry Foster McClintock deals with the origins of the leine in tremendous detail in Old Irish and Highland Dress, 1950, and seems to support the concept of its Roman origins. I haven't read the whole thing, having just got it on ILL myself, but he goes through an enormous amount of art and literature seeking exactly the answers to your questions. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Hope H. Dunlap Sent: Monday, February 22, 1999 1:54 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Leine sleeves, yet again. -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" One 19th Century author who was also puzzling over those pleats surmised that the original Irish leine and heavy over robe were similar to Roman garb. He suggested the leine might have originally been a single piece (perhaps pieced, I don't know) of fabric stretching from wrist to wrist (at a minimum, it could be more!) and from front hem to back hem with a head hole in the middle. (That's a rectangle a minimum of two yards wide (it could be wider) and about 3-4 yards the other way(from your toes up over your shoulders to your heels). The whole thing gets girdled in at the waist, creating an enormous amount of pleats, but there are no pleats actually sewn in at the shoulders. Now if you sliced from the neckhole down the front, you'd be approaching a kimono cut, and then there becomes a way to get that cowled wrap-over front closure and neckline. The slice wouldn't have to go all the way down, maybe just to the waist or so. When you look at all the period illustrations, it becomes clear that there are several versions of the leine, but I do find his theory very plausible both from a historical and a geometrical point of view. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of StrangeGirl Sent: Monday, February 22, 1999 1:38 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Leine sleeves, yet again. -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:14:00 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >The use of drawstrings is something I can't comment on, AFAIK the use of drawstrings developed out of the Renfaire community. As I recall being told, people at first came up with it as a way to roughly imitate the pleats (which from my mother's research on the subject were supposed to be carefully laid in place and occasionally secured/decorated/highlighted with a piece of braid, a strip of embriodery or trim of some kind but most often left plain) without having to do the hard work of stitching them individually in place. Kind of a quick n' easy, trim built-in machine method. Later, the convenience and utility of the drawstring was discovered - the sleeves can be pulled up further (besides being pulled back and tucked into the belt) for washing dishes and other messy tasks, or for cooling off a bit in the heat that is usual at faires in the US. They could also be let down a bit for warmth in event of a cold day. So, it is pretty clear to me, from what I've been told, and seen, that drawstrings are a faire/SCA development. My mother does not recall having found any references to drawstrings in her research some 20 years ago, when she designed and made late medieval-rennaisance Irish costumes for the group Sheila na Gig to perform and lecture in at the DeYoung Museum, during the Treasures of Irish Art exhibit in 1977(8?) Mom even remembers some of the early evloution of Irish and Scots costumes at the Northern/Southern California RenFaires, having 'been there' as it were since the second one - so she is really my primary source for that information. Apparently early on there was some argument about whether the Irish even wore the leine (and whether it could be worn by Irish persons at Faire) and she had to take her documentation to the offices and argue it out. This would have been in about 1978 or 9. Margery -----rio@austin.rr.com---Goddess of Last Minute Miracles--- "We went out with both lips blazing, and a pen in either hand..." - the Flash Girls -{*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*}- ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 14:14:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA23828 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:14:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA16243; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:26:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA16602 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:18:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.wenet.net (meat.hooked.net [206.80.6.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA16513 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:18:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from wenet.net (korea-145.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.225.145]) by smtp.wenet.net (8.9.0/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA20446 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:18:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36D1AEB1.DCD4188B@wenet.net> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:23:29 -0800 From: Lawrence Kincaid X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-DIAL (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Late 1800's Levis References: <4.1.19990221012956.00be3b40@pop.slip.net> <36D17136.D8929EC9@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lawrence Kincaid The western store near fishermans warf in San Francisco, CA has the a remake of the original canvas trousers with a waistband split in the back about 4 in high in back that tapers down to 2 in in front with rivets, a cinche strap in the back below the waistband, with buttons for suspenders and rather period looking nice suspenders to go with these also for sale. The leg is straight and more stove pipe than real tight. The proprietor says that these pants are based on the Genoa sailor pants and that the first Levi's are based on this design. This store has all kinds of nifty things for western re enactors. I guess you could look it up in the phone book. I have their flyer buried in some stack here about. I discovered the store during the Dickens Fair of 95 and the later gold rush days event phyllis had. sincerly Larry Kincaid Karren Schaeffer wrote: > -Poster: Karren Schaeffer > > We have developed an interest in Single Action Shooting and need to > dress the part and my fella won't wear anything but jeans. I know > Levi's made jeans then, they were higher at the waist than now and had > attachments for braces. Has anyone made these? Is there a commercial > pattern available. Or am I just being too historic here? Any help > would be appreciated, the next costumed event is in April. > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 14:52:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA23986 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:52:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA23206; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:02:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA25968 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:51:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id MAA25948 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:51:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:51:17 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:55:59 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com, h-needlework From: Lynn Downward Subject: H-COST: Vintage Fashion Show, Northern California Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Downward Just a quick heads-up: There is another Vintage Fashion Show on March 13-14 being held at the Concourse Exhibition Center at 8th and Brannan, San Francisco. The Info I have doesn't give times, but I remember (I think) Saturday hours are 10-6 and Sunday are 12-5, not written in stone, not guaranteed, just my faulty memory. I've been a couple of times and had great fun. Not completely OT - vintage trims, patterns (teens-80's), clothes, buttons, accessories, books. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 15:31:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24195 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:31:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA00430; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:43:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA08259 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:35:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA08123 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:34:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA08325.; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:38:38 GMT Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:34:27 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:34:23 +0000 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Armsythe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id PAA24195 Status: O -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" I've been puzzled for some time by the word "armsythe/armscye" which list members knowledgeable about sewing often use with several variant spellings. I've just looked it up and can't find it in the dictionary, even the OED. Is it an American word? Does it just mean "armhole"? Anyone care to elucidate? Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 15:38:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24224 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:38:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA01585; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:48:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA09991 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:40:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA09959 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:40:29 -0700 (MST) From: Finafyr@aol.com Received: from Finafyr@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id UXJFa05506 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:39:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <26731cbc.36d1c06c@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:39:08 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Armsythe Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Finafyr@aol.com It means "Armhole." You are correct Finafyr _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 16:12:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA24365 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:12:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA07564; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:23:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA11068 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:43:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA10946 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:43:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA27613 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:43:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36D1C18F.5843ECE1@serv.net> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:43:59 -0800 From: Merouda of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Armsythe References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda of Bornover > I've been puzzled for some time by the word "armsythe/armscye" which list members knowledgeable about sewing often use with several variant spellings. I've just looked it up and can't find it in the dictionary, even the OED. Is it an American word? Does it just mean "armhole"? Anyone care to elucidate? >From what I understand, yes, it means armhole. Or if you break it down, it means arm's eye. See? :) Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 16:12:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA24369 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:12:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA07894; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:24:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA06897 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:30:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA06880 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:30:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id MAA07686 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:22:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36D1BC07.C3F4322D@best.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:20:23 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Vintage Fashion Show, Northern California References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press > Just a quick heads-up: There is another Vintage Fashion Show on March > 13-14 being held at the Concourse Exhibition Center at 8th and Brannan, San > Francisco. The Info I have doesn't give times, but I remember (I think) > Saturday hours are 10-6 and Sunday are 12-5, not written in stone, not > guaranteed, just my faulty memory. > > I've been a couple of times and had great fun. > > Not completely OT - vintage trims, patterns (teens-80's), clothes, buttons, > accessories, books. > > LynnD > All correct except Sunday is 11-5. Admission is $6 (but it is pretty easy to get coupons for $1 off on admission if that matters to you. Check the _San Francisco Chronicle_ ads in the "pink section" the week before). I've attended every Bay Area show since they started holding them. They always have about a hundred dealers. There is an amazing variety of clothing and accessories, ranging from early to mid 19th century (though comparatively few pieces in this date range) through 1960s. Although the emphasis is on clothes and accessories, they do have, as Lynn said, great vintage buttons, lace, collars and cuffs, fashion magazines, patterns, and fabrics. At the last two shows they had a dealer who specialized in very nice, reasonably priced, vintage jacquard ribbons and millinery flowers, and a pricey dealer in handmade lace trims. Many vintage clothing dealers have some trims stowed in baskets or piled on tables. I haven't seen any specialty textile dealers at the past couple shows, but some clothing dealers sell a few fabrics, and some household linens suitable for garments. At a recent show I bought some very nice Japanese silk brocade (probably 1950s but suitable for late 19th century costuming) at one booth. Fran Grimble ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 16:15:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA24395 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:15:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA07718; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:24:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA02091 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:14:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp0-alterdial.uu.net (smtp0-alterdial.UU.NET [192.48.96.28]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA02011 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:14:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from jwilbur1 by smtp0-alterdial.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: 119.pcpool89.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.89.119]) id QQgdsa08608 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:14:05 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:16:07 -0500 Subject: H-COST: ISO Regency costumes Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" Greetings to the list! My housemates and I have been invited to a Regency-themed wedding, on April 2. However, we are all SCA and well, haven't a thing to wear! Guests are being encouraged, but not required, to attend in appropriate clothing. We'd like to be able to do this, but I know we won't have time to make anything beforehand (we're moving this weekend and have a full slate of events for March) Does anyone know of anywhere in the DC metro area where we could rent or maybe even buy something like this (though money's a tad tight for the above-mentioned reasons)? Or any suggestions for other options? One of my housemates is 6'6" and large. I'm a bit worried about finding something that will fit him! Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks! --Jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 16:16:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA24403 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:16:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA07474; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:23:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA02310 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:14:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from centum.utulsa.edu (centum.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.199]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA02271 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:14:48 -0700 (MST) Received: by centum.utulsa.edu; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:14:41 -0600 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:14:41 -0600 From: "I. Marc Carlson" To: mail2news-19990222-rec.org.sca@anon.lcs.mit.edu, H-COSTUME@indra.com CC: sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu Message-Id: <990222141441.ce4a1@centum.utulsa.edu> Subject: H-COST: Medieval Shoe comment... Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" Something that just came up, that may or may not be obvious to everyone making or wearing medieval shoes (and to be honest, I'd never thought to mention before) -- the edge closing seams on the uppers are called "flesh-edge" seams for a reason. They are on the flesh side, which makes them on the INSIDE of the shoe when it worn. In most sorts of medieval shoes, you won't see the thread in any of the seams unless you take the shoes off and look inside. Marc/Diarmaid _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 17:57:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA24835 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:57:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA25804; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:09:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA21588 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:01:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA21579 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:01:12 -0700 (MST) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id BJAAa19752 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:55:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <61bfbb33.36d1e05b@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:55:23 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Clothing madames Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com Another book to try to find is "Soiled Doves", I've got it packed away in my boxes of books so can't give an author or much more detail than the title. It's all about the madams and working girls of the west. I seem to recall that, like the other book mentioned, the madams in the photos were pretty conservatively dressed. Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 18:46:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25018 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:46:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA04350; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:58:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA25808 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:34:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from centum.utulsa.edu (centum.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.199]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id OAA25786 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:34:13 -0700 (MST) Received: by centum.utulsa.edu for H-COSTUME@INDRA.COM; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:34:02 -0600 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:34:02 -0600 From: "I. Marc Carlson" To: H-COSTUME@indra.com Message-Id: <990222153402.ce4a1@centum.utulsa.edu> Subject: H-COST: Arts/Crafts/Money Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" I'm sorry, I didn't answer this over the weekend. <"Megan McHugh" > >...So, pray tell, what is the link for your page? What kind of >shoes/ boots do you make? I may want to order from you in the future if I >decide not to take on the project myself. I make medieval style shoes. The link for the page is at "www.pbm.com/~lindahl/carlson". It's undergoing the latest revision process (scheduled to be completed in September if the Gods smile, and my web-site host ever uploads the updates he gets from me). Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 18:46:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25022 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:46:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA04264; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:57:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA10776 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:20:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA10691 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:20:10 -0700 (MST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id NVPLa03472 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:57:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9844c0ee.36d1d2cc@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:57:32 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Old Levis Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com Poster: Ann Wass Yes, Levi Strauss does have a museum at their corporate headquarters in San Francisco. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 20:54:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA25546 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:54:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA23451; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:05:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA20756 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:57:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA20750 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:57:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.134] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10F76O-0007OP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:57:36 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990222174126.00a25e70@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:42:46 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 16th C stomachers In-Reply-To: References: <36C78A4C.6FB7@wireweb.net> <281FFB60FE3@mdx-bg-staff2.nw.mdx.ac.uk> <36C78A4C.6FB7@wireweb.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > Beating Digby's drum again, he shows several surviving stomachers >in his "Elizabethan Embroidery"..... After reading your post I rushed to my copy to see these stomachers. I couldn't find them. Which illos are you calling stomachers? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 21:15:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA25655 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:15:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA26601; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:28:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA23693 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:20:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.nwlink.com (smtp.nwlink.com [209.20.130.57]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA23677 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:19:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from oemcomputer (ip198.bel-d15.nwlink.com [209.20.214.198] (may be forged)) by smtp.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA26463; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:19:40 -0800 (PST) From: "Cathy Harding" To: , Subject: H-COST: Late Ren garb for someone with a Moorish Persona Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:19:05 -0800 Message-ID: <000901be5ed2$e2ed53e0$c6d614d1@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <199902222318.PAA25702@pop.nwlink.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Cathy Harding" Greetings all, I apologize for those who get two postings as I am cross posting to H-Costume and The Garb list. A friend just wrote to me asking about Garb for a Moor in late Renaissance. They desire to dress as a Moor at the Southern (CA I assume) Ren Faire. This is definitely not my area (I'm a cook, not a costumer). If anyone has any ideas, pictures, web sites that we could look at, please let me know, either privately or on the list. Maeve barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 23:05:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA26406 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:05:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA10591; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:16:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA05807 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:08:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA05794 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:07:59 -0700 (MST) From: EofAshley@aol.com Received: from EofAshley@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id WNTVa24348 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:00:42 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:00:42 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: H-COST: Armsythe Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: EofAshley@aol.com Taking the armsceye question one step further, the "armsceye to armsceye" measurement goes across the chest or back, from one armhole seam to the other. This measurement in front is above the bustline, where the body flattens out, if you are a woman. Karla _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 23:07:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA26437 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:07:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA10873; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:19:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA06161 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:11:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA06155 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:11:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D346D38V; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:11:00 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Armsythe Message-ID: <19980923.065611.5351.19.kayherb@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,6-12,14-32 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:11:00 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" I've always understood it to be the same as "armseye," too, but that the armseye was the point at the very top of the sleeve cap where, on modern patterns, it matches to the mark at the top of the shoulder of the garment body. Is this definition a modern one, or has it always been so? Kay Herb kayherb@juno.com On Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:34:23 +0000 "KATE M BUNTING" writes: > >-Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" > >I've been puzzled for some time by the word "armsythe/armscye" which >list = >members knowledgeable about sewing often use with several variant = >spellings. I've just looked it up and can't find it in the dictionary, >= >even the OED. Is it an American word? Does it just mean "armhole"? >Anyone = >care to elucidate? > >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Feb 22 23:23:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA26495 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:23:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA12425; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:35:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA07946 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:27:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA07939 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:27:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from sue.computercrafters.com (pm3frd1-68-99.intrepid.net [206.102.68.99]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA17419 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:27:08 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990222233823.00835100@intrepid.net> X-Sender: sshatto@intrepid.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:38:23 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sue Shatto Subject: Re: H-COST: ISO Regency costumes In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sue Shatto Jessica, i have several regency gowns about size 10 or12. My friend has one that is probably a 16 or 18. Her husband has a nice outfit. He is rather rotund, but not nearly so tall. I'm sure we could rent them to you. I am in Frederick, MD Phone number is 301-694-8950. Cordially, Sue Shatto Sue@VictorianMillinery.com http://www.VictorianMillinery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 01:06:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA27762 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 01:06:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA23446; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:19:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA17352 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA17341 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:11:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-135.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.135]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id WAA15503 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 22:11:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36D1A60B.4FADD7BE@pacbell.net> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:46:36 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: African Masks-help req References: <4.1.19990221011813.00b75830@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, I wasn't going to answer this since I had been away for a week, but since it's still getting kicked around... The original poster wrote: > Yeah, I've got some great pics I've pulled off-line, but was kinda hoping > for something a little sturdier than paper. This is for a traveling troupe, > and they apparently take stuff on the road, around to schools, etc., and > so I wanted something that could get banged around and hold up okay. I > guess that they make pretty heavy papers, but I'd love to get some thin > wood and curve it. Just don't have much time to put something together. Could you do it out of balsa wood? Balsa would be extremely light weight, carves easily and, after sealing, would easily accept any paints you wanted to use. I think it would be the best alternative to the actual woods that they used. Try your local hobby supply store (even hardware stores) to see what they can get for you. You can glue smaller pieces together to reach the size you need. Kayta wrote: >> Do two layers glued together with chicken wire in between. Use a lot >> of glue, and tape the edges together. Done right, paper mache is as >> strong as particle board. If you want to do papier mache, I suggest that you find an art supply store that sells it. You can buy bricks of paper pulp that only require water. Build a wire mesh armature to form the mask over. After the papier mache dries, the mask will be very light, but nearly as strong as plaster, without the worry of cracking. It also accepts paint well, and can be carved or sanded if necessary. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 01:07:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA27769 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 01:07:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA23388; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:19:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA17326 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:11:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA17319 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:11:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-135.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.135]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id WAA15487 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 22:11:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36D1A335.D0F7E003@pacbell.net> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:34:29 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Literary characters - OT References: <2f778552.36cd830d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, Nancy wrote: > Is there anything in the Grimm and Anderson fairy tales? A tailor, perhaps? Well, I don't know about HCA, but in my "Complete Fairy Tales of the Brothers Grimm" (all 242 of them) I see: The Brave Little Tailor (commonly known as "Seven with One Blow") The Tailor in Heaven The Clever Little Tailor The Giant and the Tailor There are others that involve spinning and weaving, as well as inanimate tools such as "Spindle, Shuttle and Needle". > How about any of the "Little House on the Prairie" books? I've never read the books, but I do remember in the TV show that Mary left school to do some piecework sewing to help the family through tough times. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 01:07:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA27773 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 01:07:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA23549; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:20:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA17413 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:12:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA17404 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:12:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-135.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.135]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id WAA15691 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 22:12:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36D1B04A.DDFAAD1F@pacbell.net> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:30:20 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Armsythe References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, Kate Bunting asked: > I've been puzzled for some time by the word "armsythe/armscye" which > list members knowledgeable about sewing often use with several variant > spellings. I've just looked it up and can't find it in the dictionary, > even the OED. Is it an American word? Does it just mean "armhole"? > Anyone care to elucidate? My 1966 Edition of "Webster's Third New International Dictionary of the English Language Unabridged" has ARMSCYE; also Armseye: Armhole. Unfortunately, it doesn't give dates or etymology. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 01:08:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA27780 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 01:08:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA23611; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:20:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id XAA17443 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:12:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id XAA17433 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:12:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-135.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.135]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id WAA15759; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 22:12:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36D1B06C.61B7EEBB@pacbell.net> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:30:54 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com, "I.MarcCarlson" CC: sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: H-COST: Re: Arts/Crafts/Money References: <990219131031.c0e56@centum.utulsa.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings good gentles all, At first I considered answering this privately. I consider Marc a friend, though we've never met, and honestly we've only exchanged E-mail a half dozen times or so, but I respect his work and his ethics. Since he is attempting to gather opinions, I thought it better to share mine with a wider audience in hopes of spurring discussion. Marc wrote: > When I first designed my shoe page, I did so based on the premise that > I'm just too cheap to pay what shoemakers were charging, and shoes don't > NEED to be that expensive. I've got a huge, long list of things that I'm too cheap to pay for, so I can sympathize. I often say to myself that I'd rather make it than pay that much, even when it's only a few dollars. But then, the satisfaction of having made something outweighs the money saved. > Now, I was informed that I was undervaluing my work this way, and this > was a Bad Thing. Fair enough. So, if I *did* charge for my work, what > would be a fair price? As a minimum, if I used cheap leather and charged > minimum wage, that *minimum* would be about $130-150 a pair for shoes. > Now, I know professional shoemakers who charge upwards of $800-1000 for > a pair of modern boots (and they think I'm absolutely nuts for not > charging, or charging so little). It really depends on what YOUR purposes are. If you intend your work to be special gifts that you are only making for a limited number of friends, then your price could be minimal (and should be, IMHO) or no charge at all. If this is supposed to be a hobby, then you should at least cover your costs. If it's to be a business, you had better charge a fair price for your time. > So, my questions are 1. Is is bad to undervalue the cost of your labor > so badly? 2. How much is a fair price? 3. Since I'm still making the > information for how to make shoes cheaply, would taking (a lot of) money > make me a hypocrite? 1) No, it's a personal decision. However, you don't necessarily want to be taken advantage of either. 2) Really depends on your purposes. Cost at least. There's a merchant selling shoes that are not custom fit for $50 - $65. I've seen someone selling turnshoes for $70 (but I can't see how they're making a profit), and there are outfits that make custom shoes and boots for anywhere from $250 - $400 and more. 3) Not at all. You are providing information that shows how shoes can be made cheaply. Of course, if they choose to have someone with expertise make them, they should expect to pay more. They have the choice of paying for your time or spending their own. I don't see any hypocrisy at all. Warmest regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 02:15:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA09633 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 02:15:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA29520; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:28:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA21257 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:19:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from tomcat.sac.verio.net (root@tomcat.sac.verio.net [209.162.64.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA21252 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:19:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.159.15.54] (pm02-35.rose.sac.verio.net [207.159.15.54]) by tomcat.sac.verio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA29064 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:19:38 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: kworley@mail.ns.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199902230611.XAA17336@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:16:54 -0800 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Katrina Worley Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #163 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Katrina Worley >- -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" > >I've been puzzled for some time by the word "armsythe/armscye" which list = >members knowledgeable about sewing often use with several variant = >spellings. I've just looked it up and can't find it in the dictionary, = >even the OED. Is it an American word? Does it just mean "armhole"? Anyone = >care to elucidate? It does mean armhole, but the etymology is "arm-sythe" or the cut in the garment for the arm (sythe referring to the cutting implement- modern spelling "scythe"). According to my etymological dictionary, the "c" in "scythe" is due to a faulty spelling. It should be spelled "sythe" or "sithe".... so apparently the spelling for clothing term is older than the modern spelling of the farming implement. The farming implement was spelled without the "c" as late as the early 17th century, which would indicate that the clothing term dates to at least then (they wouldn't have adopted a new term with an archaic spelling). I knew those classes in linguistics would come in handy sooner or later.... Katrina Katrina in Loomis, CA kworley@ns.net *************** History: what special people were doing in special places at special times; Anthropology: what everyone else was doing the rest of the time. **K. Worley, 1997** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 02:41:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA09776 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 02:41:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA02277; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:54:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA22615 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:45:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from crius.flash.net (crius.flash.net [209.30.0.49]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA22604 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:45:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from flash.net (p151.amax8.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.66.151]) by crius.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA27204; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 01:45:36 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36D25C95.2D681B6C@flash.net> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 01:45:27 -0600 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List , h-needlework list , lace@arachne.com Subject: H-COST: OT: Are you near the Kuntshistorichesmuseum, Vienna? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Charlene Charette I have a friend who is having difficulty obtaining a photograph of an item in the Kuntshistorichesmuseum in Vienna. He spent about US$40 to order a photo from the museum and they apparently misunderstood the request because they sent a photo of the wrong item. If anyone on this list (or anyone you know) is near this museum and would be willing to work with us to get his photo, we'd be very grateful. Of course, all expenses will be reimbursed. --Charlene -- The discontent of the people is more dangerous to a monarch than all the might of his enemies on the battlefield. -- Isabella d'Este _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 08:43:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA29882 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:43:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA19031; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 06:55:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA09446 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 06:46:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA09425 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 06:46:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.210.49] (ell207.acadia.net [205.217.210.49]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA15289 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:46:35 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:46:50 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: H COST: seamstresses Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Aside from the title, and names of characters, the TV show had little resemblance to the books. In the books, it was Laura, not Mary, who worked in town by doing piecework sewing. As I recall, she worked one summer, mostly making buttonholes at a dry goods store. The owner was considered to be quite enterprising in having his mother make up shirts to sell to men with no wife at home to make them. In the book, Laura hated it but stuck it out for the summer. In real life, apparently, it was so unpleasant she left after a few weeks -- the family she was working for was constantly fighting, and using vulgar language. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 10:03:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA30159 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:03:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA25234; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 07:59:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA16939 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 07:50:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (artemis.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA16927 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 07:50:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from dsc (ppp34.chass.utoronto.ca [128.100.160.154]) by artemis.chass.utoronto.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA18495 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:52:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <007201be5f3c$c037a020$9aa06480@dsc> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: King Alfonso's Book of Chess Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:56:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! A friend of mine interested in Spanish and Moorish clothing is curious to know whether _King Alfonso's Book of Chess_ has ever been printed, and if so, where and by whom. Susan Carroll-Clark _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 10:34:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA30319 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:34:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA28770; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:34:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA21867 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:25:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from bsumail.idbsu.edu (bsumail.idbsu.edu [132.178.16.40]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA21849 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:25:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from cobfac.idbsu.edu (cobfac.idbsu.edu [132.178.51.3]) by bsumail.idbsu.edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id IAA27514 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:27:37 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902231527.IAA27514@bsumail.idbsu.edu> Received: from COBFAC/SpoolDir by cobfac.idbsu.edu (Mercury 1.44); 23 Feb 99 08:25:00 GMT+7 Received: from SpoolDir by COBFAC (Mercury 1.44); 23 Feb 99 08:24:41 GMT+7 From: "Linda Yordy" Organization: College of Business To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:24:34 MST Subject: H-COST: Digby's "Elizabethan Embroidery" Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4.1.19990222174126.00a25e70@pop.slip.net> References: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Linda Yordy" > > Beating Digby's drum again, he shows several surviving stomachers > >in his "Elizabethan Embroidery"..... I may have missed this in an earlier post, but can you give us more info on this book (author's first name, publisher, or ISBN)? If it's worthwhile, I'd like to track it down. Thanks, Linda Yordy Phone: 208/426-4034 Boise State University Center for Management Development 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1660 ******************************************************** Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 10:56:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA30430 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:56:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA00830; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:49:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA24253 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:40:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com [207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA24112 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:39:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.42 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 07:38:54 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #163 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:24:02 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be5f43$5ac107c0$4717ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Of all the variants of this word, I prefer to use "armscythe," because it refers to cutting the armhole out of the edge of the fabric, AND, armscythes are also curved like scythes. I think the double meaning is very expressive. But not being a perfect speller, it sometimes ends up "armsythe." Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Katrina Worley Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 2:17 AM To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #163 -Poster: Katrina Worley >- -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING > >I've been puzzled for some time by the word "armsythe/armscye" which list = >members knowledgeable about sewing often use with several variant = >spellings. I've just looked it up and can't find it in the dictionary, = >even the OED. Is it an American word? Does it just mean "armhole"? Anyone = >care to elucidate? It does mean armhole, but the etymology is "arm-sythe" or the cut in the garment for the arm (sythe referring to the cutting implement- modern spelling "scythe"). According to my etymological dictionary, the "c" in "scythe" is due to a faulty spelling. It should be spelled "sythe" or "sithe".... so apparently the spelling for clothing term is older than the modern spelling of the farming implement. The farming implement was spelled without the "c" as late as the early 17th century, which would indicate that the clothing term dates to at least then (they wouldn't have adopted a new term with an archaic spelling). I knew those classes in linguistics would come in handy sooner or later.... Katrina Katrina in Loomis, CA kworley@ns.net *************** History: what special people were doing in special places at special times; Anthropology: what everyone else was doing the rest of the time. **K. Worley, 1997** ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 11:10:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA30496 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:10:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA03003; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:03:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA26640 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:54:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA26591 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:54:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.185 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 07:54:05 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Arts/Crafts/Money Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:58:05 -0500 Message-ID: <000701be5f45$795a5d60$4717ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <990222153402.ce4a1@centum.utulsa.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I am very sympathetic to the problem about people taking your work and trashing it, feeling that because it was "free," it doesn't matter. It is a strong argument for charging something. Even a little charge scares away those who don't absolutely love your work. Self-protection. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of I. Marc Carlson Sent: Monday, February 22, 1999 4:34 PM To: H-COSTUME@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Arts/Crafts/Money -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" I'm sorry, I didn't answer this over the weekend. <"Megan McHugh" > >...So, pray tell, what is the link for your page? What kind of >shoes/ boots do you make? I may want to order from you in the future if I >decide not to take on the project myself. I make medieval style shoes. The link for the page is at "www.pbm.com/~lindahl/carlson". It's undergoing the latest revision process (scheduled to be completed in September if the Gods smile, and my web-site host ever uploads the updates he gets from me). Marc ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 12:52:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA07502 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:52:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA17815; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:45:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA14980 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:36:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from isis.netherworld.com (isis.Netherworld.COM [199.165.233.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA14957 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:36:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost by isis.netherworld.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA13014 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:27:58 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:27:56 -0700 (MST) From: Sylvia Rognstad To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Grad schools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad A friend of mine who teaches at LA Trade Tech has a student who wants to go to grad school in costuming. Anyone out there have any ideas about what he/she thinks is a really good one? I went to Cal Arts, myself and btw, this student was told it does not offer costuming anymore, a fact I had not heard. Sylvia R Divinity Designs http://www.d-e-designs.com/divinity/ 515 Manhattan Drive, #203 sylvia@netherworld.com Boulder, CO 80303 USA complete catalog on website _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 12:53:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA07509 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:53:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA20085; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:59:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA17284 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:49:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from invicta.engin.umich.edu (root@invicta.engin.umich.edu [141.212.135.25]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA17251 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:49:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (parsla@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by invicta.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA28809 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:49:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:49:45 -0500 (EST) From: Parsla Liepa To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Grad schools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Parsla Liepa I know several people who have gone to Eastern Michigan University. They seem to have a pretty good program. But your person probably wants to stay in-state. Parsla On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > > -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > A friend of mine who teaches at LA Trade Tech has a student who wants to > go to grad school in costuming. Anyone out there have any ideas about what > he/she thinks is a really good one? I went to Cal Arts, myself and btw, > this student was told it does not offer costuming anymore, a fact I had > not heard. > Sylvia R > > > Divinity Designs http://www.d-e-designs.com/divinity/ > 515 Manhattan Drive, #203 sylvia@netherworld.com > Boulder, CO 80303 USA complete catalog on website > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 13:21:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA07675 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:21:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA25920; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:34:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA23450 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:25:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from griffon.mwsc.edu (griffon.mwsc.edu [150.200.1.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA23423 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:24:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from [150.200.70.53] (findlay.commstud.mwsc.edu [150.200.70.53]) by griffon.mwsc.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06146 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:20:35 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:21:44 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Walter Robin Findlay Subject: Re: H-COST: Grad schools Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Walter Robin Findlay I advise my students who are very good to go to Yale ... if they want to go professional .. Failing that go to florida state... If they want to go into education I advise them th go to the university of Georgia >-Poster: Parsla Liepa > >I know several people who have gone to Eastern Michigan University. They >seem to have a pretty good program. > >But your person probably wants to stay in-state. > >Parsla > > >On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > >> >> -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad >> >> A friend of mine who teaches at LA Trade Tech has a student who wants to >> go to grad school in costuming. Anyone out there have any ideas about what >> he/she thinks is a really good one? I went to Cal Arts, myself and btw, >> this student was told it does not offer costuming anymore, a fact I had >> not heard. >> Sylvia R >> >> >> Divinity Designs http://www.d-e-designs.com/divinity/ >> 515 Manhattan Drive, #203 sylvia@netherworld.com >> Boulder, CO 80303 USA complete catalog on website >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME THANK YOU W. ROBIN FINDLAY "Is that all there is?".................Miss Peggy Lee _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 14:04:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07878 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:04:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04096; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:17:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA01235 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:57:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA01081 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:56:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.103] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10FN0c-0002tw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:56:43 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990223095334.00b41180@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:54:56 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costumes In-Reply-To: References: <20b58ba7.36ccdeca@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Having finally seen both Shakespeare in Love and Elizabeth, Surely everybody knows that both are up for lots of Oscars including Best Costumes? Almost makes me want to watch the Oscar show. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 14:05:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07885 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:05:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04017; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:17:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA01222 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:57:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA01085 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:56:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.103] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10FN0h-0002tw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:56:48 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990223100652.00b434f0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:08:38 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: "Scarlett Fever" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I have seen the painting they got that ruffled white dress with the short sleeves from. Unfortunately it's period (shudder). Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 14:05:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07889 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:05:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04171; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:17:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA01167 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:57:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA00934 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:56:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.103] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10FN0M-0002tw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:56:26 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990222194855.00bd3ab0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990222194855.00bd3ab0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:49:34 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 15" waists: surviving garments? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.32.19990212151939.006aba60@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bernhard_Foltz/CORGRA1.JPG > >has another shot of Mrs Granger ...looking like she'd break in half! Scary stuff. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 14:05:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07899 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:05:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04293; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:18:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA01189 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:57:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA00996 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:56:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.103] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10FN0V-0002tw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:56:35 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990223080200.00aaa3f0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:03:08 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: more corset stuff In-Reply-To: <36CCCF4D.633C1C04@flash.net> References: <265ad08e.36c8356e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >> -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com >> >> it was painfully clear that 18th-century clothing >> wasn't designed for today's supermodels. It's too bad that so much of today's >> fashions, especially couture, are designed for practically non-human bodies. >> >> > >WOW! Does this mean that my pudgy self has a period body?? If so, Huzzah! Get a book on the paintings of Rubens, and look at his nudes. Many of us are that period. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 14:06:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07909 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:06:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04507; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA01187 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:57:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA00973 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:56:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.103] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10FN0Q-0002tw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:56:31 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990222200507.00be1d80@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990222200507.00be1d80@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:09:31 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Steel or plastic? In-Reply-To: <199902170133_MC2-6AB8-C2E@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I rarely use these, but they are INVALUABLE where the bone has to bend two ways. I have a few of them in my Edwardian straight-front, where steel or plastic ones would have poked thru years ago. They are more flexible than solid steel, and are otherwise unusable (at my weight) because they bend too well to support me. Just like most plastic ones do. >Have you tried the spiral steel boneing ?, I use those for my 18th C >corsets and they are extreemly comfortable Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 14:06:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07913 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:06:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04707; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:19:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA01217 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:57:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA01078 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:56:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.103] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10FN0g-0002tw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:56:46 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990223100352.00b47760@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:05:56 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Re:1850's questions - oranges, smoranges In-Reply-To: <36CE1529.572A50C8@vaxxine.com> References: <36CCEAC0.350D6811@rust.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Maybe it's just >the aesthetic shock of not having seen so much orange since my >mother redecorated her family room in the late seventies from >orange and brown to rose. From having overdosed on bright orange >as a child in the sixties, and the earthier "burnt-orange-'n-brown-'n- >macrame" look of the seventies, I'm just not a big orange fan, I'm afraid. >It's interesting how orange has never succeeded in making a >comeback, despite a couple of attempts. The baby-boomers >never want to see it again? > This baby boomer has been there and done that. I still like orange, especially red-orange, for how it sets off other colours. I otherwise avoid it because I am a Summer and look awful in too much of it. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 14:07:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07920 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:07:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04378; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:18:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA01188 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:57:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA01023 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:56:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.103] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10FN0N-0002tw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:56:28 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990222195034.00ae1e50@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990222195034.00ae1e50@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:52:18 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 1930s corsets In-Reply-To: References: <199902141334.IAA24353@mail.niagara.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >A woman on another email list recently found a pink corset dated 1932. >All I recall of the description is that it laces up the front and has >buckles. Since corsets were not widely used by that decade, who might >this kind of one been intended for? Anyone know? Somebody's mother. My grandmother, born in 1880, wore a corset thru this period, and I remember her in it in the 70's. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 14:07:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07924 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:07:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04621; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:19:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA01211 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:57:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA01047 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:56:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.103] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10FN0a-0002tw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:56:41 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990223094635.00adc1a0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:52:15 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Newton's _Fashion ... Black Prince_ In-Reply-To: References: <199902102035.NAA26602@indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Also listed is black Irish 'sarge' for making hose. What's sarge? If >anyone has actually made hose of this period, will you share what fabric >you used, and did you like how it turned out? They may mean serge, but I don't know. I made a pair out of wool challis (long time ago). I had always wanted to make a pair, and an acquaintance of mine said he really wanted a pair to go with a coronation outfit (I didn't make them just because he was going to be King, but because he had nice legs). They bagged at the knees a little, but he loved them. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 14:07:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07928 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:07:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04849; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:20:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA04595 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from hummer.tci.net (hummer.tci.net [209.19.4.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA04562 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:11:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from c59303-a (c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com [24.4.53.172]) by hummer.tci.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id FDMVWMAG; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:10:54 -0700 Message-ID: <002a01be5f61$699213c0$ac350418@c59303-a.mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: Subject: H-COST: Fw: ANST - would love to find a teacher Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:18:53 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" I remember several of you took this type of discussion off line a while ago. Can any of you please help her off line as well? She is Arabella de Montacute . Sincerely, Ches aka Chiara Francesca Virtual Scribe for 20th year http://www.ansteorra.org/20thyr/ -----Original Message----- From: Arabella de Montacute To: ansteorra@Ansteorra.ORG Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 12:20 PM Subject: ANST - would love to find a teacher :Greetings, : I'm personally looking for someone who knows the mechanics of :ladies hairstyles. These questions keep coming into my head. :"What did they do with their hair to wear that hat?" :"What is that wrapped around that braid and How do I do that, so I can :look just like the painting because my dress does and I feel not :completed" :"How can I add hair extenstions to achieve that look?" :"How did they wrap hair around their ear, it looks like an ear muff?" :"How did Elizabeth I get her hair to stand up in what looks like rounded :devils horns?" : :See what I mean. I know how to braid and do a teriffic job. Ladies :seek me out at events.... "Arabella will you do my hair?" Especially :when it's hot outside. I want to carry it further. I can do the :research and find examples... just look at portraits. I want to know :how to achieve that look, so I can do it on other people's heads. : :HELP!!! Please answer me privately, as I am not on the Ansteorran List :at this time. Copy back to the list if you have information which :everyone could use. I thank you all for your patience and time. : :Sincerely and in faithful service to Barony and Kingdom, :Lady Arabella de Montacute, Chronicler :Secretary to the Steward of :Ansteorra's Twentieth Year Celebration AS XXXIV (July 1999) :Barony of Elfsea, :Kingdom of Ansteorra :email - ladyarabella@hotmail.com : : : : :______________________________________________________ :Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com :=========================================================================== = :Go to http://lists.ansteorra.org/lists.html to perform mailing list tasks. : _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 14:08:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07932 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:07:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA05013; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:21:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA01205 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:57:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA01037 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:56:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.103] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10FN0Z-0002tw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:56:39 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990223085836.00a25f00@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:43:51 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Arts/Crafts/Money In-Reply-To: <990219131031.c0e56@centum.utulsa.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows 1. Is is bad to undervalue the cost of your labor so >badly? It is bad to undervalue your labour only to the extent it undermines your sense of self worth. If you are comfortable with what you're charging, you probably are not undervaluing your work - at least on a personal level. I used to sew for people for money. I stopped because I couldn't get enough money for my time to make me want to sew for other people. If the money you get per hour makes you happy, it's the right hourly wage for you. 2. How much is a fair price? If you get enough money to keep you happy but don't get as much as professional shoemakers charge, certain economic conditions apply, as those other posts on this subject discuss. A solution I have seen in pottery, jewelry, and other such crafts, is a barter system which supposes that one craftsman's time is worth pretty much what another craftsman's time is worth. So these folks trade work with each other based on how many hours their pieces take to make, and they pay each other in cash for the supplies needed to make them. A professional potter I knew showed me two gold and diamond rings he'd had made by a jeweler he knew. He told me how many of his best pieces the jeweler had taken in trade for the work, and how many for the cost of the gold and diamonds based on the selling prices of the pots. His only complaint was that the shelves in his shop were pretty empty when the jeweler was finished. He had no regrets about the trade itself. I have cleaned peoples' houses in trade for things I couldn't make, preferring scrubbing bathrooms to sewing for other people. 3. Since I'm still making the >information for how to make shoes cheaply, would taking (a lot of) money make >me a hypocrite? I teach and make patterns and do fittings for free, but tell people if they want me to actually sew I charge a lot. (If pressed, I get around to refusing to sew for them.) Teaching is fun for me, it's my charity. I see sewing as work which should be charged for. I guess I don't sew for other people because I really don't like sewing. It's a means to an end. I only do it to have costumes for myself. However well I do it, sewing is not the fun part - peacocking afterwards is the fun part. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 14:09:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07943 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:09:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04804; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:20:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA01215 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:57:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA01063 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:56:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.103] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10FN0e-0002tw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:56:44 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990223095546.00adcdf0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:00:46 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 19th century drawers In-Reply-To: <199902192334.PAA03174@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I'm trying to find out when ankle length drawers (pantalettes?) were worn. >I've seen them in an 1830's painting, but that was with a riding habit. >While I've read that they were worn during the hoopskirt period because the >legs were easily revealed by tilting hoops, I've seen a number of existing >drawers, and they all seem to be about knee length. I suppose this may be >because if the longer ones went out of style, they were easily shortened. >When I worked at the Dickens Christmas Fair (okay, not exactly a bastion of >authenticity), we were all supposed to wear them. So when were these things >worn? And does anyone know where my copy of Cunnington is? We never had to wear the ankle-length ones when I worked Dickens'. We were cautioned to wear the knee-length ones, just in case. I have seen 1850's cartoons of hoop skirts blowing up, and there is lots of leg showing but no long pantalets. The ankle-length ones are earlier. I have seen them as early as Regency, but no later than the 1840's. I think they go out with many layers of petticoats, just when hoops come in. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 14:09:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07946 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:09:40 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA05122; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:21:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA01212 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:57:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA01032 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:56:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.103] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10FN0X-0002tw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:56:37 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990223080923.00b44100@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:45:28 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: out of date clothes - worn by whom? In-Reply-To: <97440b98.36cd25ac@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >This isn't my "period" but .... It's an old saw that the dress of the un- >fashionable classes is the out of date fashion of their betters. And we know >that's not the case. Last year or two we started collecting favorite costume >myths. (Something for the infamous FAQ?) This is one of them. I sort of disagree with you. If by 'out of date' you mean 20 years out of date, I agree. But if you mean a few years I heartily disagree. Used clothing dealers are period all the way back to the late 1400's, probably earlier. And used clothing is anything a few years out of date, or formerly fashionable but no longer so. Poorer people often buy from these dealers, therefore I think there is more truth in the old saw than you seem to. I cautiously use modern thrift stores as an example. Even allowing for the greater quantity of modern garments, and the fact that this gives us more garments per person these days, I can still find garments from the eighties in any thrift store I go into today. (No such guarantee for seventies garments.) And I still see women buying these to wear. Heck - I even wear some of them. It seems perfectly reasonable that older people or poorer people will be wearing garments up to ten years out of fashion. Not perhaps hoops ten years after they are out of style, but yes hoops in the few years during which they are going out of style. And yes the same dresses but hoopless, and perhaps remodeled, after that. My mother still wears garments she was wearing ten years ago. Then there are those few styles which were classics and had a longer lifespan among the fashionable. The high necked long sleeved shirtwaist blouses of the (post leg-o-mutton sleeve) 1890's-1910-ish period come to mind. Some of these could have been worn for many years by almost anyone. Lastly are the house dresses which may pay some lip service to fashion, but are pretty timeless. My collection of photographs goes back to the 1850's, and there is a close-sleeved straight-skirted high-necked dress which I see anywhere from the 1860's to the 19-teens, with very little change to help me date the photo. I have to date these on hair or on somebody else in the photo. My mother still makes new ones of the same kind of pullover top and elastic waist pants she has worn for at least ten years, maybe as much as 15. (She is 75.) I think you are too hasty in completely dismissing this old saw. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 14:49:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20677 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:49:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA13066; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:02:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA11609 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:53:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.gte.net (smtp2.gte.net [207.115.153.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA11593 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:53:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from gte.net (1Cust254.tnt3.everett2.wa.da.uu.net [153.35.255.254]) by smtp2.gte.net with ESMTP id NAA12149 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:52:56 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36D3065F.78B482D1@gte.net> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:49:51 -0800 From: Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costumes References: <20b58ba7.36ccdeca@aol.com> <4.1.19990223095334.00b41180@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lady Eleanor of Leycestershyre My money is on "Shakespeare in Love"! Saw them both...loved "S.I.L"...and sadly did not love "E", which was a huge disappointment. After waiting nearly 25 years for another depiction of Elizabeth's life to hit the screen, and hopefully match, or even rival "Elizabeth R"...I found it rather insultingly, and dismally done. Although, Cate Blanchett was quite good. The entire fault, in my eyes must be laid squarely at the feet of the director. I'd much rather he had chosen an entirely different subject matter...but alas, no. Guess I was expecting a more historically correct rendering...*sigh*...eventhough I had read the "disclaimers" on the "E" web page. :-( I found much to love in "S.I.L", and much to criticize in "E". >From an historic costumer's perspective, "S.I.L." was better done in every way, but there were still glaringly obvious liberties taken with some design elements, which on balance did not hurt my enjoyment of the film. And, overall I'd rate it very highly. Anachronisms aside, I do think "S.I.L" will carry the day, in more than one category. Kayta, it should be a good show...I'll be watching! ;-) -Lady Eleanor Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > >Having finally seen both Shakespeare in Love and Elizabeth, > > Surely everybody knows that both are up for lots of Oscars including Best > Costumes? Almost makes me want to watch the Oscar show. > > Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 14:59:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA26880 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:59:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA04913; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:20:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA01171 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:57:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA00940 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:56:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.103] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10FN0P-0002tw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:56:29 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990222200009.00a05ec0@pop.slip.net> Message-Id: <4.1.19990222200009.00a05ec0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:11:01 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: plastic whalebones In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I live in the Silicon Valley, and we get these in seriously large sizes. I went to a surplus electronics place and got a bundle of 50 of them (at about 30" long) for $10. If that's what you mean by plastic bones, go for it. They're great. I cut them with wire cutters. >With all this discussion of the "plastic whalebones " going on , I'm not clear >on whether people were lumping in the electrical tie-wraps, as well. Some of >us have used with very great success electrical cable /tie wraps as an >alternative to the plastic stuff in the fabric stores --or to the metal. >Electrical cable--or tie wraps come in varying sizes and widths.I like the 5/8 >inche wide black ones.They seem to support most people the best.I am a 38 >D---and my best friend is a DD, and they hold up very well, indeed.These can >be purchased in home improvement centers and >electrical supply shops. I hit upon them quite by accident at work some years >ago. I work in the telephony industry --and noticed these items being thrown >away in the trash at the finish of a new telephone cabling project . A light >bulb went off in my head---and I've been using them ever since. Plus the price >was right---free!!! >cheers ! >albra > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 15:18:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA26978 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:18:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA18682; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:30:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA16211 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:21:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from echo.sound.net (echo.sound.net [205.242.192.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA16202 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:21:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 2923 invoked from network); 23 Feb 1999 20:16:06 -0000 Received: from tnt1-082167.kc.sound.net (HELO sound.net) (209.153.82.167) by echo.sound.net with SMTP; 23 Feb 1999 20:16:06 -0000 Message-ID: <36D30E0C.FCEDD2A0@sound.net> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:22:36 -0600 From: Linda Thompson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historic costume Subject: H-COST: More on Neck ruffs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Linda Thompson I am woefully behind in reading the list, I am finally up to late January.... Felt like sharing. Doing costumes for our local nobility here for the Rennaisance Fair of Kansas City, we need sturdy and very washable ruffs. Some of our fair days get to be 100+ with 90% humidity. A damp, dirty, wilted ruff is a sad and sorry thing. One way to get a full, fairly accurate looking lace ruff is to make it from ruffled lace to begin with. We have made ruffs with lace up to 2 inches in width using this method. (Without having a supportasse or frame) The ruffled lace is cartridge pleated to the band of your choice, setting the pleats at 1/4" intervals. I use a 1" wide band of twill tape to pleat to, but it can be whatever you choose. Simply make marks 1/4" apart all along one side. Then on the opposite edge do the same but set the first mark to start 1/8" in from the original placement so the marks are offset. (Can be put even closer together if you want) Something like this: ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' Top edge ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' Bottom edge. then you simply sew the lace on folding at each mark and sewing down twice at each fold. (Two needles required, one for each side). Use a high quality polyester blend ruffled lace, and it holds up to many frequent washings. I do not throw them in the dryer, but they do go through the washer just fine... I air dry them on a towel so if they need any shaping or starching it can be done then. Also, we make many different styles of ruffs... cartridge pleated theatrical styles using just horsehair for the ruff, edged with pearls or lace. Horsehair comes in a variety of widths. (can get a ruff up to 5 inches deep this way, and from 2 feet away it looks amazingly like a fine lawn) Or fine silk batiste/organza reinforced with horsehair. Or a variety of fabrics or laces, box pleated in layers. We have found that following only a singular way of making a ruff is unsatisfactory. Mainly because when we have an actor wishing to duplicate a specific look or style from a portrait one way does not fit all circumstances. And formost, it needs to look good for a 7 weekend run of varying weather circumstances. These techniques have been culled from publications from Janet Arnold, Jean Hunnisett, our local "Rep", the SCA and our own yankee ingenuity. (p.s. have never tried the circular method described in "Elizabethan Costuming".) Hope this helps Linda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 16:30:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA27283 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:30:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA03966; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:40:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA29364 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:31:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f278.hotmail.com [207.82.251.169]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id OAA29233 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:31:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 25048 invoked by uid 0); 23 Feb 1999 21:30:48 -0000 Message-ID: <19990223213048.25047.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 161.80.134.164 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:30:47 PST X-Originating-IP: [161.80.134.164] From: "Karen Stefanik" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Fw: ANST - would love to find a teacher Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:30:47 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Karen Stefanik" For anyone answering this lady's request--I would love to be cc'd as well--it sounds fascinating!! Thanks. Karen >-Poster: "Franchesca Havas" > >I remember several of you took this type of discussion off line a while ago. >Can any of you please help her off line as well? She is Arabella de >Montacute . > >Sincerely, >Ches >aka Chiara Francesca >Virtual Scribe for 20th year >http://www.ansteorra.org/20thyr/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: Arabella de Montacute >To: ansteorra@Ansteorra.ORG >Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 12:20 PM >Subject: ANST - would love to find a teacher > > >:Greetings, >: I'm personally looking for someone who knows the mechanics of >:ladies hairstyles. These questions keep coming into my head. >:"What did they do with their hair to wear that hat?" >:"What is that wrapped around that braid and How do I do that, so I can >:look just like the painting because my dress does and I feel not >:completed" >:"How can I add hair extenstions to achieve that look?" >:"How did they wrap hair around their ear, it looks like an ear muff?" >:"How did Elizabeth I get her hair to stand up in what looks like rounded >:devils horns?" >: >:See what I mean. I know how to braid and do a teriffic job. Ladies >:seek me out at events.... "Arabella will you do my hair?" Especially >:when it's hot outside. I want to carry it further. I can do the >:research and find examples... just look at portraits. I want to know >:how to achieve that look, so I can do it on other people's heads. >: >:HELP!!! Please answer me privately, as I am not on the Ansteorran List >:at this time. Copy back to the list if you have information which >:everyone could use. I thank you all for your patience and time. >: >:Sincerely and in faithful service to Barony and Kingdom, >:Lady Arabella de Montacute, Chronicler >:Secretary to the Steward of >:Ansteorra's Twentieth Year Celebration AS XXXIV (July 1999) >:Barony of Elfsea, >:Kingdom of Ansteorra >:email - ladyarabella@hotmail.com >: >: >: >: >:______________________________________________________ >:Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >:=========================================================================== >= >:Go to http://lists.ansteorra.org/lists.html to perform mailing list tasks. >: > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 16:36:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA27313 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:35:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA05544; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:47:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA00655 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:38:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA00596 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:37:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from unknown (vcn12.pm3-2.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.240.81]) by sight.vcn.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E713FF522E; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:37:09 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <199902231527.IAA27514@bsumail.idbsu.edu> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Subject: Re: H-COST: Digby's "Elizabethan Embroidery" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 99 15:38:54 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id QAA27313 Status: O -Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Almost missed this - it's pre-ISBN, I'm afraid, but you should be able to get it ILL: George Wingfield Digby, "Elizabethan Embroidery", pub. 1961(?). In the text he discusses embroidery for furnishings and then embroidery for dress, then the last 3rd of the book is black and white plates of chalice veils, pillow "beres", handkerchiefs, coifs, hoods, sleeves, stomachers, etc, etc, etc, on most of which you can pretty much see and count the stitches.... Lots and lots of blackworked items, a beautiful whiteworked coif, etc, most from the V&A. Liadain > -Poster: "Linda Yordy" > > > > Beating Digby's drum again, he shows several surviving stomachers > > >in his "Elizabethan Embroidery"..... > > I may have missed this in an earlier post, but can you give us more > info on this book (author's first name, publisher, or ISBN)? If it's > worthwhile, I'd like to track it down. > > Thanks, > > Linda Yordy > Phone: 208/426-4034 > Boise State University > Center for Management Development > 1910 University Drive > Boise, ID 83725-1660 > ******************************************************** > Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch > directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 16:36:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA27320 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:36:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA05556; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:47:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA00654 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:38:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from nsgoge1.ct.oge.com (sbexchg.oge.com [12.5.242.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA00631 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:37:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from metroexchg.ct.oge.com (metroexchg.ct.oge.com [167.161.21.254]) by nsgoge1.ct.oge.com (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/1.00) with ESMTP id PAA39346 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:34:04 -0600 (CST) Received: by METROEXCHG with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id <1TGL3ZPP>; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:37:51 -0600 Message-ID: From: "EPPERSON, SHERYL" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Fw: ANST - would love to find a teacher Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:37:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "EPPERSON, SHERYL" I wouldn't mind information on how to do hair styles either. Annabelle Fitzsimmons aka Sheryl Epperson EPPERSOS@oge.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Karen Stefanik [SMTP:kmste@hotmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 3:31 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Fw: ANST - would love to find a teacher > > > -Poster: "Karen Stefanik" > > For anyone answering this lady's request--I would love to be cc'd as > well--it sounds fascinating!! > > Thanks. > > Karen > > >-Poster: "Franchesca Havas" > > > >I remember several of you took this type of discussion off line a > while > ago. > >Can any of you please help her off line as well? She is Arabella de > >Montacute . > > > >Sincerely, > >Ches > >aka Chiara Francesca > >Virtual Scribe for 20th year > >http://www.ansteorra.org/20thyr/ > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Arabella de Montacute > >To: ansteorra@Ansteorra.ORG > >Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 12:20 PM > >Subject: ANST - would love to find a teacher > > > > > >:Greetings, > >: I'm personally looking for someone who knows the mechanics of > >:ladies hairstyles. These questions keep coming into my head. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 16:47:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA27396 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:47:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA08476; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:00:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA03869 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:51:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA03855 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:51:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p27.directcon.net [206.170.184.76]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA15891 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:44:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:44:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902232144.NAA15891@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: H COST: seamstresses Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >In the books, it was Laura, not Mary, who worked in town by doing piecework >sewing. As I recall, she worked one summer, mostly making buttonholes at a >dry goods store Laura Ingalls Wilder (the author, not her character) helped support her family with sewing when she wasn't teaching school. After her marriage, she helped raise the money needed to move and buy their farm by sewing. She was very proud of having once made sixty shirt buttonholes in one hour. My mind boggles at the idea of doing a handworked buttonhole in one minute, (or at all, but that's me) but her daughter says she did do it. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 16:55:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA27454 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:55:18 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA09609; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:07:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA05465 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:58:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA05449 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:58:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p27.directcon.net [206.170.184.76]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA16769 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:51:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:51:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902232151.NAA16769@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: "Scarlett Fever" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 10:08 AM 2/23/99 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >I have seen the painting they got that ruffled white dress with the short >sleeves from. Unfortunately it's period (shudder). Do you mean the white one with red trimmings she wears in the first scene? That's amazing. It looks SO 1938 to me. I watched it again the other night, and realized that's also where I got the idea pantalettes were still being worn. I must say, though, if you look beyond the leading ladies, most of what's worn by actresses in smaller parts and extras is very good. Isn't that always the way? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 17:04:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA27498 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:04:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA11023; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:16:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA07250 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:07:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA07235 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:07:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p27.directcon.net [206.170.184.76]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17960 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:00:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:00:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902232200.OAA17960@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Fw: ANST - would love to find a teacher Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 01:18 PM 2/23/99 -0600, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Franchesca Havas" > >I remember several of you took this type of discussion off line a while ago. >Can any of you please help her off line as well? (The person in question is asking for tips for period hairstyles) Could we PLEASE discuss this on the list as well? I'm interested in just about any historical hairstyling tips, although I'm currently engrossed in the 1850's. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 17:07:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA27512 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:07:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA11643; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:19:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA07904 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:10:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA07725 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:10:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA20960; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:12:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA04927; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:11:38 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:11:37 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: ladyarabella@hotmail.com cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Elizabethan hairstyles Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed My lady, Someone forwarded your request to the Historical costuming mailing list. I can't answer for earlier centuries, but I know about Elizabethan hairstyles. The simplest style, worn by servants and often covered with a coif or veil, was two braids wrapped around the head (see a picture of this at http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/lowerclass/images/CM36.jpg). For the lower classes in general, the hair was drawn back severly from the face and either braided at the back of the head or twisted into a bun. One neat style seen in Flanders had the hair drawn back and wrapped with a ribbon, and then wrapped in a coil at the back of the head where it could be covered with a kerchief. (http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/lowerclass/images/aertsen3.jpg) In Elizabeth's time, false hair was all the rage for those who could afford it. Those poofy side bits were created by curling the hair with hot irons to make it stand out more, and then supplementing the natural hair with rats underneath to give it more mass. I've heard of several ways to do this style: 1. Do a half french braid or french twist down either side of the head, securing the hair into a bun at the back. (short hair can be covered with a caul). Take either false hair or a modern rat or even bits of stocking and carefully stuff them inside the french twists to make them stand out more. This creates a modest pouf at either side of the head. 2. Another woman suggested making a roll of netting or an old nylon stocking, securing it around your head with a ribbon/string going underneath the back of the head to keep it on, and then start pinning your front hair over the roll, tucking it into the back and securing it with bobby pins. Pull the hair in the middle of the forehead more tightly over the roll to create that center dip--but you don't have too. Very bouffant hair was in. 3. Part your hair, take the front section of each, and roll it up around a bit of net/hair rat/whatever. Secure these rolls to either side of your head. 4. Get a fake hair braid and secure it around the crown of your haid. Cover it with your front hair and pin into place. Mousse helps a lot, as does curling or frizzing beforehand. If you have one of those kink-type frizzers popular in the eighties, those are great. Curling irons are actually period. When doing french hoods, those "side poufs" can be accomplished with rats as well (for thin hair) or by careful arranging and pinning if you have thick hair. Some hair gel at the center part creates that stiffened hair look. (http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/headwear/pics/young-qe-hood-sm.gif) My favorite gel I've found for keeping hair in place is Vavoom sculpting gel--hardens almost instantly, and really holds. If you have any other questions, let me know. Yours, Drea di' Pellegrini _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 17:41:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA27718 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:41:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA18485; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:53:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA14749 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:44:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from naos.cc.umanitoba.ca (root@naos.cc.umanitoba.ca [130.179.16.122]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA14720 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:44:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from Zaurak (net138.lib.umanitoba.ca [130.179.164.138]) by naos.cc.umanitoba.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA08340 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:44:12 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199902232244.QAA08340@naos.cc.umanitoba.ca> From: "Linda Lassman" Organization: University of Manitoba To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:47:44 CST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: H-COST: Catalogue of English Domestic Embroidery of the 16th and 17th Centuries Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <199902231527.IAA27514@bsumail.idbsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Linda Lassman" > > -Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" > > Almost missed this - it's pre-ISBN, I'm afraid, but you should be able > to get it ILL: > George Wingfield Digby, "Elizabethan Embroidery", pub. 1961(?). After reading this post and doing a quick catalogue search, I immediately took a break to run up to the stacks to get it (ah, the joys of working in a university library!). When I got there, I found it and also: "Catalogue of English Domestic Embroidery of the 16th and 17th Centuries" by John Nevinson. It's a V&A Dept. of Textiles publication from 1938, reprinted in 1950. There are 108 pages of text and 72 b/w plates. They do have 1 stomacher in the book (plate 58) and the text reads as follows: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- STOMACHER: EARLY 17TH CENTURY Silk and metal thread on linen; satin and darning stitches, with couched work. Colours--pale blue, pale green, cream, bright yellow, orange, pink, pale carmine. Lozenge diaper of small straight leafy sprays in green, enclosing small sprigs, rose and cherry, honeysuckle and raspberry, in alternate lines. The short tabs about the waist are formed of fragments with the same pattern, edged with green silk buttonholing and spangles. W. 17 1/4 in., H. 13 3/4 in. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking at the photo, there is a plain, unembroidered edging on the sides that looks to be approx. 1 1/2" wide. The shape is basically a rectangle, with notches trimmed out on the upper corners for the armholes (approx. 1 1/2" wide and 3" deep?). There are unembroidered bands on each side of the stomacher that look to be 1 1/2" wide; there are no buttonholes or eyelets or hooks/eyes or anything else to indicate how it was attached to the bodice. The top edge is very slightly concave (less than 1/2" at centre?). The bottom edge is dipped approx 1" at centre. There are 8 tacets ("short tabs" above) sewn onto the bottom edge; the 2nd tacet from each end is completely on the outside (eg, overlaps the edges of both the 1st and 3rd); the 4th one from each end meet at the centre front. Interestingly, it appears that the 4th tacet on the right side (left side looking at it) overlaps the 3rd tacet, and the 2nd tacet on that side either has the bottom inside corner cut off or has it tucked under the 3rd tacet. The tacets are wider at the bottom than at the top. Hope this information is of some help to people! - Linda Lassman Winnipeg, Manitoba _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 19:21:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA28134 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:21:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA08906; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:34:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA03827 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:18:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA03815 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:18:46 -0700 (MST) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id GORKa09892 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:56:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:56:16 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: "Scarlett Fever" Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com In a message dated 2/23/99 4:59:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << I must say, though, if you look beyond the leading ladies, most of what's worn by actresses in smaller parts and extras is very good. Isn't that always the way? >> Yes! Even if the main character's costumes are good their hair/make up is often very modern. I get a kick out of watching many of the historic movies done in the 60s - so many of the leading ladies have big poofy hair, tons of eye shadow and long false eyelashes. In GWTW I seem to recall that both Melanie and India (of 12 oaks) had some nice civ war outfits/hairstyles. Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 19:53:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA28257 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:53:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA14327; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:06:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA09812 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:57:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA09770 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:57:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from unknown (vcn12.pm3-2.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.240.81]) by sight.vcn.com (Postfix) with SMTP id DBDC3F5222; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:57:20 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990222174126.00a25e70@pop.slip.net> References: Conversation <36C78A4C.6FB7@wireweb.net> with last message <4.1.19990222174126.00a25e70@pop.slip.net> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Subject: Re: H-COST: 16th C stomachers Date: Tue, 23 Feb 99 18:59:22 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id TAA28257 Status: O -Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" > > Beating Digby's drum again, he shows several surviving stomachers > >in his "Elizabethan Embroidery"..... > > After reading your post I rushed to my copy to see these stomachers. I > couldn't find them. Which illos are you calling stomachers? Alas and alack, the Library Police descended upon me and took my ILL copy back (and said harsh words...) so I can't give numbers.... I only remember that he has several items so designated, some paired with matching sleeves. Liadain, in the ILL dungeon... > > Kayta > ////.\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ((( > | -- )))) > * ) ((((( > /----\ /---\ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 20:58:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA28519 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:58:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA23308; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:11:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA17129 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:02:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.mi.verio.com (mail.mi.verio.com [209.69.6.110]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA17122 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:02:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from rust.net (69-105.pop.sh.mi.verio.com [209.69.69.105]) by mail.mi.verio.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA09079 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:52:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36D334C7.F87C5036@rust.net> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:07:51 -0500 From: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen Organization: The Curiosity Shop X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Subject: Subject: H-COST: "Scarlett Fever" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen - -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I have seen the painting they got that ruffled white dress with the short sleeves from. Unfortunately it's period (shudder). I sure hope it was on a rich young girl. The major complaint isn't so much with the BBQ dress itself (although it is rather 'unique') so much as the fact that women who could have daughters and even granddaughters who are 16 years old are wearing their version of it. With short sleeves and low neck during the day and a sash and bow at the back, it is a teenagers party dress, not something an adult woman would wear. After all, Scarlett was only 16 years old at the start of the book.... Vivien Leigh still looked like mutton dressed as a lamb even if she was a lovely mutton. ;-> BTW, where is the painting and who was the artist? Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@rust.net Visit our web site, "The Curiosity Shop" http://www.rust.net/~gwjchris/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 23:29:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA29260 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:29:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA17154; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:42:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA03298 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:33:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA03290 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:33:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.169] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10FW0Z-0004Wo-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:33:16 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990223110839.00c5d390@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:09:22 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Late Ren garb for someone with a Moorish Persona In-Reply-To: <000901be5ed2$e2ed53e0$c6d614d1@oemcomputer> References: <199902222318.PAA25702@pop.nwlink.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >A friend just wrote to me asking about Garb for a Moor in late Renaissance. >They desire to dress as a Moor at the Southern (CA I assume) Ren Faire. >This is definitely not my area (I'm a cook, not a costumer). If anyone has >any ideas, pictures, web sites that we could look at, please let me know, >either privately or on the list. Vecellio's costume book, reprinted by Dover, has some. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Feb 23 23:50:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA29327 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:50:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA20881; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:03:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA05367 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:54:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA05356 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:54:31 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip137.van17.pacifier.com [216.65.137.137]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA28518 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:54:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902240454.UAA28518@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:55:39 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: King Alfonso's Book of Chess Priority: normal In-reply-to: <007201be5f3c$c037a020$9aa06480@dsc> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > A friend of mine interested in Spanish and Moorish clothing is curious to > know whether _King Alfonso's Book of Chess_ has ever been printed, and if > so, where and by whom. I've never seen it printed in its entirety (although that doesn't rule out that it is out there in some library.) However, I've seen many plates from it printed in music books about that time period (especially one, which a friend had but I didnt' write down the info on it, which was specifically about Cantigas. I still find it humerous that she told me she didn't have any really good sources on Spanish/Moorish clothing from that era when she was standing in front of me holding the book. She was *very* happy when I pointed out what she held in her hands!) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 00:14:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA30131 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 00:14:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA24487; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:28:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA07865 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:19:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA07857 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:19:26 -0700 (MST) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id WCZTa24348 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:34:46 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <6d6af216.36d38166@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:34:46 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: folkwear and other commercial patterns Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com Hi all, Thought some of you might be interested to know some pattern info I gleaned recently. On the Folkwear front the bad news is that it seems that Folkwear will be discontinuing some of their patterns after all, at least that's what one of their flyers I picked up at costume con said. The child's Australian coat, the quilted prairie skirt, the 30s sophisticated lady, 50s at the hop, 20s day dress, town & country dress, Victorian boudoir, English country kitchen, vintage nursery, Japanese interior, 20s middies, sporty 40s, Algerian suit, Russian Cossack, cloister dress and the Gallenga gown are the ones on the list of discontinueds. On the plus side these patterns are all on sale at about 30-50% off if you order thru Folkwear at 1-800-284-3388. In other good news the flyer also mentioned several new patterns to be released in spring, including a lot of 20s and teens stuff - a flapper dress, tea dress promenade dress and several coats. I also looked through the pattern books at G Street the other day and noticed that Simplicity had a bunch of historically inspired prom dresses (in the special occasion section) the design line was something like "bewitching." All were very fantastical - one regency inspired, the others more elizabethan/ren faire. Might make good princesses/vampire etc. dresses. Simplicity also had a pattern in the Halloween section I hadn't seen before for swing dance dresses. But alas, I saw no new vintage patterns in the Vogue spring catalogue. Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 00:17:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA30148 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 00:17:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA24861; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:30:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA08099 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:21:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from tantalum.btinternet.com (tantalum.btinternet.com [194.73.73.80]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id WAA08091 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:21:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from btinternet.com [195.99.45.156] by tantalum.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 10FWlZ-0004Ey-00; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 05:21:49 +0000 Message-ID: <36D3EE97.50853FB4@btinternet.com> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 05:20:39 -0700 From: John Culme X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Theatrical spangles and fringes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: John Culme Having been a lurker to this list for some time, I'm not at all sure if my question is appropriate. Nevertheless, here goes. My interest in matters theatrical (Victorian and Edwardian), leads me to ask if anyone might know of recent publications covering the manufacture and use of spangles, bullion fringes and other metal costume adornments in the theatre, particularly during the period 1850 to 1885. Thanks. John Culme http://members.tripod.com/FootlightNotes/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 03:19:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA27744 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 03:19:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA09161; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 01:33:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA20137 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 01:24:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay.batnet.com (relay1.batnet.com [204.188.144.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id BAA20120 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 01:24:05 -0700 (MST) From: ferrex@batnet.com Received: from eddie by relay.batnet.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id AAA01271; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 00:23:51 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990224000553.007a7560@pop.batnet.com> X-Sender: ferrex@pop.batnet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 00:05:53 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Literary characters - OT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ferrex@batnet.com "Hester Prynne from the "The Scarlet Letter" was famous or infamous depending upon your view for the costumes she sewed for her daughter Pearl as well as fine garment she made for others. I believe her speciality was lacemaking." As I remember the book, her specialty was embroidery. She embroidered the "A" she was forced to wear for her adultery - and did so very elaborately, out of defiance. On the subject, since someone else mentioned "Les Mis", I'll also mention the musical "Carousel", the two female leads of which are weavers. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 07:15:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA28617 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:15:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id FAA20727; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 05:29:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA01500 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 05:20:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from beaver.slip.net (beaver.slip.net [207.171.193.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA01494 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 05:20:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.230.165] (helo=default) by beaver.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10FdIa-0006x1-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 04:20:21 -0800 X-Sender: cjcannon@mail.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 04:20:56 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: H-COST: Newton's _Fashion ... Black Prince_ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 From: Aryk Nusbacher To: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Carol J. Bell Cannon wrote: I know you reenact a bit later period, but may know the answer to the 'sarge' question...Carol Aryk, who's done a lot of reenactment in several serious groups, and is in the thick of his PhD Dissertation work at Oxford responds: ... Sarge = serge, though. So, the lady who surmised it might be was correct. cjc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 07:48:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA28763 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:48:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA22150; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:01:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA02978 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 05:52:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from oak.ait.fredonia.edu (oak.ait.fredonia.edu [141.238.1.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id FAA02972 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 05:52:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from [141.238.21.203] by oak.ait.fredonia.edu (NTMail 3.03.0018/1.aapi) with ESMTP id pa009193 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:49:41 -0500 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Carol Blanchard" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:51:31 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: H-COST: Grad Schools Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.32a) Message-Id: <12494138403583@ait.fredonia.edu> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol Blanchard" I send my really good students to NYU, they have a wonderful costume design program. But it is in design, they will get some construction techniques. If the student wants to get more technical knowledge along with design, then I send them to Ohio University, University of Texas, Cincinnati Conservatory, or Washington State U. Each of those offer costume design MFA's with more technology classes thrown in. Carol Blanchard _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 07:51:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA28786 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:51:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA22429; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:05:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id FAA03200 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 05:56:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from dub-img-8.compuserve.com (dub-img-8.compuserve.com [149.174.206.138]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id FAA03195 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 05:56:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-8.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id HAA28356; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:56:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:55:06 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Clog-News To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com Message-ID: <199902240756_MC2-6BA8-958@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id HAA28786 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson Walkley Clogs now has a website & email address: http://www.scoot.co.uk/walkley_clogs/ walkclogs@aol.com Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 08:10:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28860 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:10:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA23490; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:24:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA04263 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:15:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA04258 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:15:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-61-188.s188.tnt1.rcm.erols.com [207.172.61.188]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id IAA14975 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:15:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000101be5ff7$e3534a80$bc3daccf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: "costume newsgroup" Subject: H-COST: Lost GWTW Footage Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:16:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" Did anyone see parts of the GWTW behind-the-scenes footage that was shown on the Today Show this morning? It is footage of the Barbecue Scene that was found three years ago. The owners said that the footage is available for historians to view and that they hope to have it available on video tape one day. Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 08:27:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28929 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:27:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA24777; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:40:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA05326 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:31:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA05316 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:31:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from s0peladn (207-172-61-188.s188.tnt1.rcm.erols.com [207.172.61.188]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA22364 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:31:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000801be5ffa$26225700$bc3daccf@s0peladn> From: "Penny E. Ladnier" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Grad schools Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:32:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" I have a Webpage on our Online Library that lists various universities that offer graduate degrees in the fashion and costume related fields. The URL is http://www.costumegallery.com/schools.htm I have not recently checked out all the links to see if they are working. Universities seem to change their URL's frequently. Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com >A friend of mine who teaches at LA Trade Tech has a student who wants to >go to grad school in costuming. Anyone out there have any ideas about what >he/she thinks is a really good one? I went to Cal Arts, myself and btw, >this student was told it does not offer costuming anymore, a fact I had >not heard. >Sylvia R > > >Divinity Designs http://www.d-e-designs.com/divinity/ >515 Manhattan Drive, #203 sylvia@netherworld.com >Boulder, CO 80303 USA complete catalog on website > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 10:03:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29389 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:03:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA05678; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:14:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA13671 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:05:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA13656 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:05:01 -0700 (MST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 0EBKa07005 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:46:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:46:18 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Grad schools Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com Speaking of grad schools and research ... I am trying to locate a source of grant money for continuing my research into brocaded tabletwoven bands. As in independent scholar with no affiliation to an institution, I am discovering that most of the grant programs are geared to affiliated persons and/or graduate students. Is this a hopeless quest I am on, or are there places to which I might apply? Thanks for any help. Nancy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 10:05:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29408 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:05:21 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA06132; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:17:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA14104 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:08:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA14090 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:08:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.165 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:07:57 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Theatrical spangles and fringes Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:11:58 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be6008$33e4f380$e817ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <36D3EE97.50853FB4@btinternet.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Nancy Bradfield in Costume in Detail deals with regular people's (English) clothing, not theatrical clothing, but she indicates that steel beads were very popular ornament for decorating normal dress and accessories during a long time span in the mid 1800's. She includes some drawings from extant garments and accessories which show them. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of John Culme Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 7:21 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Theatrical spangles and fringes -Poster: John Culme Having been a lurker to this list for some time, I'm not at all sure if my question is appropriate. Nevertheless, here goes. My interest in matters theatrical (Victorian and Edwardian), leads me to ask if anyone might know of recent publications covering the manufacture and use of spangles, bullion fringes and other metal costume adornments in the theatre, particularly during the period 1850 to 1885. Thanks. John Culme http://members.tripod.com/FootlightNotes/index.html ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 12:44:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA30268 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:44:28 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA03758; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:57:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA17434 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:35:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from dns1.mcn.org (root@dns1.mcn.org [204.189.12.26]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA17409 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:35:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from 204.189.12.131 (ha-5e-men-a04.mcn.org [204.189.12.131] (may be forged)) by dns1.mcn.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id JAA26890 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:34:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36D43949.3045@mcn.org> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:39:23 -0800 From: Fred Struthers X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume Subject: H-COST: RLShep Symposium on Textiles & Dress and Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Fred Struthers Respectfully submitted to the members of h-costume from Fred Struthers: The Department of Costumes and Textiles at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art announces the First Triennial R. L. Shep Symposium on Textiles and Dress, > "Dress as Transformation: Creating Experience in Theater and Masquerade" > Saturday and Sunday, April 17-18, 1999 > Bing Auditorium, Los Angeles County Museum of Art > > Saturday, 8;30 am-6:30 pm > > Western Theatrical Experience > > Alicia Annas, UC San Diego: effect of period costume on an actor's > movements and the role of historical dress in creating the theatrical > experience (Western theater). > > Charles Spencer, London: the transformation of "orientalism" in costume in > European theater and opera, particularly the Ballets Russes. > > Rebecca Cunningham, Brooklyn College: a new concept of the role of costume > as invented by the artists of the Russian avant-garde an the Bauhaus. > > Asian Theatrical Experience > > Alexandra Bonds, University of Oregon: the transformation of actors in > Beijing Opera through costume, culture and tradition. > > Leonard Pronko, Pomona College: quick change in Kabuki theater. > > Radha Carmen, Kerala Dance Theater: the history and symbolism of India's > Kathkali costumes and make-up. > > Special Lecture > > Kathleen Whitaker, Southwest Museum: "The American Southwest Textile > Experience," and tour of " Common Threads: Navajo and Pueblo Textiles" > from the Southwest Museum at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art. > > Sunday, 9 am to noon: > > The Masquerade Experience > > Carolyn Dean, UC Santa Cruz: the transformation of identity through > costume and performance in colonial Peru. > > Henry Drewal, University of Wisconsin: fabric as masquerade to honor the > ancestors among the Yoruba of Nigeria. > > Michael Hackett, UCLA: transformation through dress before an audience > (European masquerade). > > The R.L. Shep Triennial Symposia are supported by the R.L. Shep Symposium > Endowment for Costumes and Textiles > > Special added attraction: "Van Gogh's Van Goghs" will be on view at LACMA > during the conference (separate ticketing required). This exhibition has > only been in two venues and then will return to the Van Gogh museum in > Amsterdam. > > Symposium tickets: US $45 for the two days > van Gogh tickets: US $20 > > For a registration form (payment by check, money order or credit card) or > additional information (suggested hotels, transportation, etc), please > contact Danielle Sierra, Department of Costumes and Textiles, LACMA, 5905 > Wilshire Blvd., L.A., CA 90036, USA. Fax: (323) 857-6218; email: > jdsierra@lacma.org; tel: (323) 857-6081. -- Fred Struthers http://www.mcn.org/e/fsbks _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 12:44:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA30270 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:44:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA03751; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:57:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA21487 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:47:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id KAA21455 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:47:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:47:32 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990223213048.25047.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:52:16 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Fw: ANST - would love to find a teacher Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Downward Yes, Please!! I'm sure it would help many of us. LynnD >-Poster: "Karen Stefanik" > >For anyone answering this lady's request--I would love to be cc'd as >well--it sounds fascinating!! > >Thanks. > >Karen > >>-Poster: "Franchesca Havas" >> >>I remember several of you took this type of discussion off line a while >ago. >>Can any of you please help her off line as well? She is Arabella de >>Montacute . >> >>Sincerely, >>Ches >>aka Chiara Francesca >>Virtual Scribe for 20th year >>http://www.ansteorra.org/20thyr/ >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Arabella de Montacute >>To: ansteorra@Ansteorra.ORG >>Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 12:20 PM >>Subject: ANST - would love to find a teacher >> >> >>:Greetings, >>: I'm personally looking for someone who knows the mechanics of >>:ladies hairstyles. These questions keep coming into my head. >>:"What did they do with their hair to wear that hat?" >>:"What is that wrapped around that braid and How do I do that, so I can >>:look just like the painting because my dress does and I feel not >>:completed" >>:"How can I add hair extenstions to achieve that look?" >>:"How did they wrap hair around their ear, it looks like an ear muff?" >>:"How did Elizabeth I get her hair to stand up in what looks like >rounded >>:devils horns?" >>: >>:See what I mean. I know how to braid and do a teriffic job. Ladies >>:seek me out at events.... "Arabella will you do my hair?" Especially >>:when it's hot outside. I want to carry it further. I can do the >>:research and find examples... just look at portraits. I want to know >>:how to achieve that look, so I can do it on other people's heads. >>: >>:HELP!!! Please answer me privately, as I am not on the Ansteorran >List >>:at this time. Copy back to the list if you have information which >>:everyone could use. I thank you all for your patience and time. >>: >>:Sincerely and in faithful service to Barony and Kingdom, >>:Lady Arabella de Montacute, Chronicler >>:Secretary to the Steward of >>:Ansteorra's Twentieth Year Celebration AS XXXIV (July 1999) >>:Barony of Elfsea, >>:Kingdom of Ansteorra >>:email - ladyarabella@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 12:48:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA30288 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:48:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA04560; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:01:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA22561 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:51:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA22480 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:51:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from Andrea (port002.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.2]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id SAA19490 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:51:19 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36CD73A2.4ACD7BE3@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:22:29 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Hair styles X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef Yes, please continue the thread about hairstyles on the list! I`ve got long hair and often don`t know what to do with it when attending medieval events! It´s always the same boring braid or I leave them virgin-like loose. But some more years and I will look too old for that role ;-) ! In many periods there`s still the possibility to hide everything under a veil but that`s also always the same! Thanks ( in the name of everybody interested) for the nice instructions already posted! Greetings, Diana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 12:50:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA30309 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:50:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA05074; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:03:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA23158 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:54:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from centum.utulsa.edu (centum.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.199]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id KAA23121 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:54:13 -0700 (MST) Received: by centum.utulsa.edu for H-COSTUME@INDRA.COM; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:54:07 -0600 Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:54:07 -0600 From: "I. Marc Carlson" To: H-COSTUME@indra.com Message-Id: <990224115407.13b87d@centum.utulsa.edu> Subject: H-COST: Lasting issues reappearing... Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" Several months ago, there were several lengthy messages posted to this list, forwarded from a cordwainer at Williamsburg on Lasts and Mass production in the Middle Ages. Does anyone actually still have copies of this exchange? Mine have vnished. anished. Please let me know. marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 14:11:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA30717 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:11:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA20763; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:24:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA10478 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:14:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail4.carolina.rr.com (fe4.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.51]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA10463 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:14:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from presario400 ([24.93.91.3]) by mail4.carolina.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:11:52 -0500 From: "Gregory Stapleton" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Lasting issues reappearing... Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:08:07 -0500 Message-ID: <000e01be6029$03417660$035b5d18@presario400.carolina.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <990224115407.13b87d@centum.utulsa.edu> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gregory Stapleton" Hey, Marc, If you get a hold of these, I'd appreciate them as well. Speaking of lasts, by the way, there is some discussion of them as archaeological finds, both right and left footed from early period, in _The Bryggen Papers: Main Series-Vol. 4: Footwear from the Gullskoen Area of Bryggen_ by Arne J. Larsen, Scandinavian University Press, 1992. ISBN 82-00-21533-4. I was just reading about them this morning. It's worth getting just for the bibliographies. Sorry that I didn't get to examine the ones that the ROM possesses. I was working with the wrong department to get access to them. Each department at the ROM is kind of insular. Hopefully next trip, I'll be able to take a look at them for you. > Several months ago, there were several lengthy messages posted to this > list, forwarded from a cordwainer at Williamsburg on Lasts and Mass > production in the Middle Ages. Does anyone actually still have > copies of > this exchange? Mine have vanished. > anished. Please let me know. > > marc > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 15:25:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA31141 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:25:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA04097; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:38:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA26594 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:29:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from send102.yahoomail.com (send102.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.90]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA26585 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:29:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990224191828.4385.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Received: from [153.36.5.20] by send102.yahoomail.com; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:18:28 PST Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:18:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Kristen M. Sieber" Subject: Re: H-COST: Lost GWTW Footage To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" > Did anyone see parts of the GWTW behind-the-scenes footage that was shown on > the Today Show this morning? It is footage of the Barbecue Scene that was > found three years ago. The owners said that the footage is available for > historians to view and that they hope to have it available on video tape one > day. Yes! I saw it on "Good Morning America" and my local news. Wish there was more of my idol, Vivien Leigh. Kristen M. Sieber lady_gawain@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 15:45:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA31245 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:45:11 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA07546; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:57:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA00711 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:48:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA00694 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:48:37 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 0JOGa23173 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:40:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:40:28 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Lasting issues reappearing... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I think I saved these articles. I'll check and if I have them, I'll repost them. In any case, the cordwainer's name is Al Saguto. He is the cordwainer at Colonail Williamsburg. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 16:19:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA31411 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:19:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA14009; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:30:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA06267 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:21:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from fw2.roguewave.com (firewall-user@fw2.roguewave.com [208.151.233.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA06242 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:20:54 -0700 (MST) Received: by fw2.roguewave.com; id NAA21278; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:15:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com(10.68.4.36) via SMTP by net.indra.com, id smtpd021253; Wed Feb 24 13:15:18 1999 Received: by cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id <1X7FZRT6>; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:22:30 -0800 Message-ID: From: Betsy Perry To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: folkwear and other commercial patterns Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:22:29 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Betsy Perry I have searched twice, and I can't find either the Gallenga gown or the Cloister dress at Lark Books's website, http://www.larkbooks.com/home.nav/fw/index.html Does anybody know where I can see images of these two patterns? Thanks, Betsy Perry --- Elizabeth Hanes Perry Rogue Wave Software > -----Original Message----- > From: Marionetta@aol.com [mailto:Marionetta@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 11:35 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: folkwear and other commercial patterns > > > > -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com > > > Hi all, > > Thought some of you might be interested to know some pattern > info I gleaned > recently. > > On the Folkwear front the bad news is that it seems that > Folkwear will be > discontinuing some of their patterns after all, at least > that's what one of > their flyers I picked up at costume con said. The child's > Australian coat, > the quilted prairie skirt, the 30s sophisticated lady, 50s at > the hop, 20s day > dress, town & country dress, Victorian boudoir, English > country kitchen, > vintage nursery, Japanese interior, 20s middies, sporty 40s, > Algerian suit, > Russian Cossack, cloister dress and the Gallenga gown are the > ones on the list > of discontinueds. On the plus side these patterns are all on > sale at about > 30-50% off if you order thru Folkwear at 1-800-284-3388. > > In other good news the flyer also mentioned several new patterns to be > released in spring, including a lot of 20s and teens stuff - > a flapper dress, > tea dress promenade dress and several coats. > > I also looked through the pattern books at G Street the other > day and noticed > that Simplicity had a bunch of historically inspired prom > dresses (in the > special occasion section) the design line was something like > "bewitching." > All were very fantastical - one regency inspired, the others more > elizabethan/ren faire. Might make good princesses/vampire > etc. dresses. > Simplicity also had a pattern in the Halloween section I > hadn't seen before > for swing dance dresses. But alas, I saw no new vintage > patterns in the Vogue > spring catalogue. > > Cheers, > > Loren Dearborn > marionetta@aol.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 18:04:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA31858 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:04:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA04014; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:17:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA24851 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:08:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy.netwizards.net (qmailr@Proxy.NetWizards.Net [206.99.115.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id QAA24838 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:08:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 31148 invoked from network); 25 Feb 1999 00:15:04 -0000 Received: from bayarea56k590.netwiz.net (HELO slave) (208.164.208.190) by proxy.netwizards.net with SMTP; 25 Feb 1999 00:15:04 -0000 Message-ID: <36D48644.4A52@netwiz.net> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:07:48 -0800 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: buttons? References: <36A554D8.6560@netwiz.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi I'm looking for a source for those small Chinese metal ball buttons. I don't know how to decribe them, except they're metallic (brass usually), have either a shank or a hole for cord to go thru', about 3/8" diameter. Any help appreciated. Susan Fatemi -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 18:31:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA32028 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:31:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA10175; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:45:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA29246 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:35:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id QAA29234 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:35:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:35:37 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D48644.4A52@netwiz.net> References: <36A554D8.6560@netwiz.net> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:40:36 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: buttons? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Susan Fatemi > >I'm looking for a source for those small Chinese metal >ball buttons. I don't know how to decribe them, >except they're metallic (brass usually), have either >a shank or a hole for cord to go thru', about 3/8" diameter. > >Any help appreciated. > >Susan Fatemi > > >-- >Oh Noh! Kimonos! >susanf@netwiz.net Susan, I've seen those everywhere, if I'm thinking of the same thing you mean. Even La Mode Buttons makes them, and they sell to all the JoAnn's, Hancock's, just about everywhere. They come on a card and are available in 3, perhaps 4, sizes in both silver and gold. I'm thinking that you are describing buttons that are molded in one piece of metal with a shank, not the type that someone actually knotted of metallic yarn, strands, whatever, right? The other type is difficult to find, although I did find some last spring at Poppy Fabrics in Berkeley, CA. I bought all they had and tried to order more. The company no longer makes that particular button in gold. Perhaps there out there in silver. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 20:16:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA32476 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:16:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA26994; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:29:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA13763 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:20:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA13743 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:20:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip220-66.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.66]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA00290 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:20:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990221201504.009823f0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 20:15:04 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costumes In-Reply-To: References: <20b58ba7.36ccdeca@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Having said that, my first question is: How good is your historical eye? >By that I mean if these movies were in black and white and all we watched >was the CUT of the garments in the movies, how many and what periods and >regions of them could you identify? Well, my specialty is Elizabethan so that is what I'd be best at identifying. Given that, the black and white films I've seen which were "Elizabethan" (Bette Davis as Elizabeth - do I have the right one?) the costuming was also terrible. Mind you consider the time they were made and all that. Actually, one of the things I noticed about "Elizabeth" was the the CUT of most of the garments were wrong. For example, a doublet gown with a standing collar and an open front skirt which was back laced?! We're talking pure fiction! There are a few other centuries (mostly English admittedly) which I could muddle my way through. I'm done rambling now... Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 20:17:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA32480 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:16:59 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA27096; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:30:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA13765 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:20:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA13747 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:20:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip220-66.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.66]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA00297 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:20:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990224202801.0097f7e0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:28:01 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Figuring out elizabethan (long) In-Reply-To: <002001be5de4$c42c0b20$d746cfcf@gia-g> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >I'm going to be taking the plunge soon and start working on elizabethans for >myself. Congratulations and have fun! >I've been starting with reviewing Janet Arnold's "Pattern's of Fashion,... >c1560-1620" and Juan de Alcega's "Tailor's Pattern Book 1589". Excellent sources. >I'm confused by the use of the term Janet uses: "gown". To me the term >'gown' infers that the skirt and bodice are joined, which I guess is a >modern interpretation. >From my research I've found that a lot/most of them were one piece. For example, most of the ones in Arnold are one piece. Also, in my research I have seen no evidence of waistbands as we know them now used on women's garments in the 16th century (the earliest I document is 1615 approx.) I would be further inclined to believe in the majority being an attached bodice and skirt. Given the fact that the waistline on bodices was cut to the "natural waist" there would be a gap between bodice and skirt. >A friend told me that the use of the term 'gown' by Janet was to convey the >'outfit in entirety' (pair of bodies, overskirt, petticoat), and not the >modern interpretation of joined at the waist seam. I never seen evidence for this interpretation. In fact certain entries (I don't have handy right now) in "Lost From Her Majesty's Back" leed me to believe it is a single garment/layer. >To further confuse me, Janet does give great details for doublets, >foreparts, petticoats (skirts), 'pair of bodies', farthingales, corsets and >all the pictures of construction, tabs, and boning. In her schematics, she >seems to include all the little details of the 'outer shell' of the extant >garments, but I don't seem to see any waistbands for the skirts. Is it >because it's presumed that the reader would know? Or is it because the >specific references are *not* 'english' elizabethan? Or does that even >matter? It is because modern waistbands do not appear to be used in 16th century England on women's garments. My understanding of the "waistband" used for a women's skirt/kirtle/petticoat is more of a bias type strip running along the top, anchoring the pleats. >I'll list only a *few* specifics from each of the books, where the confusion >starts: > >Page 40 caption for picture 286 "Back of Eleanora of Toledo's satin bodice >from the gown in which she was buried (pages 102-4), Beneath it are >fragments of her red velvet bodice or 'pair of bodies' which fastened at the >front with hooks and eyes. Palazzo Pitti, Florence" > >Page 42, picture & caption 297 "Velvet gown on pages 105-6 worn by Grafin >Katharina zur Lippe when she was buried, aged six, in 1600, Lippisches >Landesmuseumm, Detmold." > >Page 47, picture & caption 334 " Rich russet velvet gown worn by >Pfalzgrafin Dorothea Sabina von Neuberg, with a petticoat of soft green silk >(pages 113-14), 1598. Bayerisches Nationalmuseum, Munich." > >Page 48 Pictures & captions from 340 & 341 > >340: "Cut and uncut patterned velvet gown on pages 115 - 16 worn by >Pfalzgrafin Dorothea Maria von Sulzbach. The deep shoulder wings are >trimmed with wilk braid. The cut is similare to gowns in the Spanish >tailor's books (fig 36)..." This to me is very straight forward. She is referring to the gown as a "dress" in its entireity (sp?) - a combination of skirt and bodice with or without sleeves. >341: It's actually the picture in this case that is causing confusion. The >caption is about the silk braid, but when I look at the picture, it looks >like the skirt and bodice are sewn together at the seam. Does anyone have a >better picture? They ARE sewn together. >In Juan's book, in the "Main Notes", # 33 : " Manteo, a semi-circular >intermediate skirt, also called a Faldlin. It had a waist-band and was >sometimes reversible, oopen in front or worn inside out (de vuelta). It wa >worn over the basic undergarment, the shift, and under the outer skirt >(vasquina), kirtle, or saya, petticoat or skirt with bodice. (Bernis, 1962, >pp. 96, 107) > >On page 47, f.63, the caption for the pattern lay out is: "Skirt and bodice >of cloth with puffed sleeves." > >Same page, f.63a & 64, the captions read, " Skirt [with bodice] of cloth for >a woman." > >I noticed in the layouts he doesn't show the layouts for the small stuff >like the tabs, armsceyes wings and he doesn't specify them either, generally >saying trims are cut out of the cabbage. Again, does he presume then that >the user of his patterns would know that the skirt would go on a waistband? > >These books seems to support my thoughts that the bodice and the skirt are >*sometimes* joined, but don't want to jump to conclusions. So I thought I'd >put my questions before the collective knowledge of this list. I've come to the understanding from my research that the skirt and bodice for the outer layers were usually joined. Jerkins are an exception. They were a discrete article of clothing. It seems to me that it was the petticoat or kirtle layer where things were sometimes separate. Things like safeguards being an exception - a skirt by itself on the outside. >I'll keep looking for other sources and review the inventory in QEWU and see >what I find there, too. Good luck and have fun digging. I hope this helped. If you have any questions, please feel free to e-mail me privately. Cheers, Danielle dnunn@interlog.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 23:01:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA00479 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 23:01:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA21686; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:14:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA01083 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:05:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA01076 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:05:20 -0700 (MST) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id GAMDa05322 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:50:11 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:50:11 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: folkwear and other commercial patterns Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com << I have searched twice, and I can't find either the Gallenga gown or the Cloister dress at Lark Books's website, http://www.larkbooks.com/home.nav/fw/index.html << Does anybody know where I can see images of these two patterns? >> Lark Books's website does not have all the patterns displayed. I called and ordered the complete catalogue today for $3. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Feb 24 23:53:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA00679 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 23:53:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA01409; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:06:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA06233 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:57:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from centum.utulsa.edu (centum.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.199]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id VAA06207 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:57:34 -0700 (MST) Received: by centum.utulsa.edu for H-COSTUME@INDRA.COM; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:57:28 -0600 Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:57:28 -0600 From: "I. Marc Carlson" To: H-COSTUME@indra.com Message-Id: <990224225728.11fb0b@centum.utulsa.edu> Subject: RE: H-COST: Lasting issues reappearing... Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" > >Hey, Marc, >If you get a hold of these, I'd appreciate them as well... I will forward them to you privately (they are rather long). >Speaking of lasts, >by the way, there is some discussion of them as archaeological finds, both >right and left footed from early period, in _The Bryggen Papers... Yes, unfortunately there isn't any information about their dates. >Sorry that I didn't get to examine the ones that the ROM possesses. I was >working with the wrong department to get access to them. Each department at >the ROM is kind of insular. Hopefully next trip, I'll be able to take a >look at them for you. Thank you, anyway. I just know they have them, but no information about them. ------------------- >I think I saved these articles. I'll check and if I have them, I'll repost >them. In any case, the cordwainer's name is Al Saguto. He is the cordwainer at >Colonail Williamsburg. Thank you ma'am. I found them in the archives, but I appreciate it. I'm in communcation with Al Saguto, but because of the length, I didn't want to ask him to re-write them :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 25 00:12:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA01381 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:12:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA04108; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:26:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA08110 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:16:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from bajor.ici.net (bajor.ici.net [207.180.0.58]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA08089 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:16:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.180.41.64] (d-ma-superpop-1-64.ici.net [207.180.41.64]) by bajor.ici.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA11029 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:06:03 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902250506.AAA11029@bajor.ici.net> Subject: H-COST: Looking for Pouch Sources Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:16:41 -0500 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Irene leNoir To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id AAA01381 Status: O -Poster: Irene leNoir Hello Everyone, While my local library really isn't up to any serious research, they do give me acces to inter-library loan. The only hitch with ILL is that you have to know what you are looking for. I'm hoping that some of you may be able to point me in the right direction. I'm looking for photographs of 14th to 15th century paintings or illuminatins (preferably French) that show women wearing pouches. I've looked through my book, photocopy, and slide collections, and I've only been able to find 3 examples: 1995 Medieval Woman Calendar - November Attending a Birth (detail Birth of Mary - Weingartner Altar Hans Holbein the Elder German 1493 Augsburg Cathedral - The woman on the left wears a small pale pink pouch suspended from her belt (next to a chatelaine that holds several keys). The pouch appears to be decorated with points of fabric, but I can't really tell because the image is so small 1998 Medieval Woman Calendar - August Peasants Hunting Rabbits With Ferrets (detail) Tapestry, Franco-Burgundian, c. 1450-75 Glasgow Museums: The Burrell Collection - The woman on the top right wears a pouch over her underdress but under her overdress. It is beige and is decorated with tan or golden toned beads. It has separate hanging and gathering strings. French Painting: From Fouquet to Poussin page 48 Les Heures d'Etienne Chevalier, c 1450 the Visitation Musee Conde, Chantilly, France - The woman on the right wears a rose pink pouch over her underdress but under her overdress. I can't see much about the construction of the pouch other than that a seam appears to be decorated with either beads or a cord. If you know of any other examples, please send me the publication information for the book that contains them. Please also include a page or plate number and/or description so that I know where to look Thanks in advance. Jessica Clark SCA: Irène leNoir irene@ici.net http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 25 00:12:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA01385 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:12:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA04101; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:25:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA08112 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:16:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from bajor.ici.net (bajor.ici.net [207.180.0.58]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA08098 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:16:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.180.41.64] (d-ma-superpop-1-64.ici.net [207.180.41.64]) by bajor.ici.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA11032 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:06:05 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902250506.AAA11032@bajor.ici.net> Subject: H-COST: Black Veils Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:16:43 -0500 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Irene leNoir To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id AAA01385 Status: O -Poster: Irene leNoir Hello Everyone, Does anyone have any sources (preferably 14th-15th Century and/or French) for women wearing black veils who were not nuns? I had found two examples, and was planning on making a black veil for an outfit that I am making, when I realized that they were both nuns. Jessica Clark SCA: Irène leNoir irene@ici.net http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 25 09:25:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19286 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:25:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA14898; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:39:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA10371 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:29:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailnfs0.tiac.net (mailnfs0.tiac.net [199.0.65.17]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA10348 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:29:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from kdp.tiac.net (kdp.tiac.net [206.119.75.41]) by mailnfs0.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8) with SMTP id JAA18158 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:29:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990224103431.2db79368@tiac.net> X-Sender: kdp@tiac.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:34:31 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kristin Page Subject: RE: H-COST: folkwear and other commercial patterns In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kristin Page I don't have pictures that I can send but you might try looking at gift books on fashion and costume. # 505, Cloister Dress seems to have a jewel neckline. 3/4 length dolman sleeves and curved drop waist that dips front and back -- skirt may be a gathered tube or a gathered cone. #507, Gallenga gown seems to have scoop neckline, tapered tube sleeves, no defined waist but snug at the hip -- looks like a narrow tube with a train. Both were one the closeout sale list of my last catalogue (they're poor sketches) but they may still be in stock. Call Lark Books and ask. I'm looking for the folkwear pattern for a Tibetan dress -- that one is out of print with no plans for republishing. Does any one have it? I can pay for photocopying and postage. Thanks, Kristin >> sale at about >> 30-50% off if you order thru Folkwear at 1-800-284-3388. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 25 10:36:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA05146 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:36:25 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA22624; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:48:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA19904 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:39:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA19893 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:39:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p41.directcon.net [206.170.184.90]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA12301 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:32:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:32:09 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902251532.HAA12301@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: RE: H-COST: folkwear and other commercial patterns Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 10:34 AM 2/24/99, you wrote: > >-Poster: Kristin Page > >I don't have pictures that I can send but you might try looking at gift >books on fashion and costume. > ># 505, Cloister Dress seems to have a jewel neckline. 3/4 length dolman >sleeves and curved drop waist that dips front and back -- skirt may be a >gathered tube or a gathered cone. I believe the Cloister dress is actually a very flared T-shaped dress, with no waistline seam. The belt is simply a yards long peice of roleau, wapped as you like. It needs to be made in silk or wool jersey to get that wonderful fall of pleats. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 25 14:03:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA01398 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:03:17 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA29730; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:14:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA27976 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:51:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com [207.46.181.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA27633 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:50:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.34.218 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:50:21 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Figuring out elizabethan (long) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:31:57 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be60f0$6b17ec20$da22ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990224202801.0097f7e0@mail.interlog.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" >My understanding of the "waistband" used for a women's skirt/kirtle/petticoat is more of a bias type strip running along the top, anchoring the pleats. More than likely this was not a bias cut strip of self fabric, but a tape, woven on a little tape loom. Stronger, no stretch, and less wasteful of material. Sometimes folded over the top of the gathers and sometimes just used flat. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Danielle Nunn Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 8:28 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Figuring out elizabethan (long) -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >I'm going to be taking the plunge soon and start working on elizabethans for >myself. Congratulations and have fun! >I've been starting with reviewing Janet Arnold's "Pattern's of Fashion,... >c1560-1620" and Juan de Alcega's "Tailor's Pattern Book 1589". Excellent sources. >I'm confused by the use of the term Janet uses: "gown". To me the term >'gown' infers that the skirt and bodice are joined, which I guess is a >modern interpretation. >From my research I've found that a lot/most of them were one piece. For example, most of the ones in Arnold are one piece. Also, in my research I have seen no evidence of waistbands as we know them now used on women's garments in the 16th century (the earliest I document is 1615 approx.) I would be further inclined to believe in the majority being an attached bodice and skirt. Given the fact that the waistline on bodices was cut to the "natural waist" there would be a gap between bodice and skirt. >A friend told me that the use of the term 'gown' by Janet was to convey the >'outfit in entirety' (pair of bodies, overskirt, petticoat), and not the >modern interpretation of joined at the waist seam. I never seen evidence for this interpretation. In fact certain entries (I don't have handy right now) in "Lost From Her Majesty's Back" leed me to believe it is a single garment/layer. >To further confuse me, Janet does give great details for doublets, >foreparts, petticoats (skirts), 'pair of bodies', farthingales, corsets and >all the pictures of construction, tabs, and boning. In her schematics, she >seems to include all the little details of the 'outer shell' of the extant >garments, but I don't seem to see any waistbands for the skirts. Is it >because it's presumed that the reader would know? Or is it because the >specific references are *not* 'english' elizabethan? Or does that even >matter? It is because modern waistbands do not appear to be used in 16th century England on women's garments. My understanding of the "waistband" used for a women's skirt/kirtle/petticoat is more of a bias type strip running along the top, anchoring the pleats. >I'll list only a *few* specifics from each of the books, where the confusion >starts: > >Page 40 caption for picture 286 "Back of Eleanora of Toledo's satin bodice >from the gown in which she was buried (pages 102-4), Beneath it are >fragments of her red velvet bodice or 'pair of bodies' which fastened at the >front with hooks and eyes. Palazzo Pitti, Florence" > >Page 42, picture & caption 297 "Velvet gown on pages 105-6 worn by Grafin >Katharina zur Lippe when she was buried, aged six, in 1600, Lippisches >Landesmuseumm, Detmold." > >Page 47, picture & caption 334 " Rich russet velvet gown worn by >Pfalzgrafin Dorothea Sabina von Neuberg, with a petticoat of soft green silk >(pages 113-14), 1598. Bayerisches Nationalmuseum, Munich." > >Page 48 Pictures & captions from 340 & 341 > >340: "Cut and uncut patterned velvet gown on pages 115 - 16 worn by >Pfalzgrafin Dorothea Maria von Sulzbach. The deep shoulder wings are >trimmed with wilk braid. The cut is similare to gowns in the Spanish >tailor's books (fig 36)..." This to me is very straight forward. She is referring to the gown as a "dress" in its entireity (sp?) - a combination of skirt and bodice with or without sleeves. >341: It's actually the picture in this case that is causing confusion. The >caption is about the silk braid, but when I look at the picture, it looks >like the skirt and bodice are sewn together at the seam. Does anyone have a >better picture? They ARE sewn together. >In Juan's book, in the "Main Notes", # 33 : " Manteo, a semi-circular >intermediate skirt, also called a Faldlin. It had a waist-band and was >sometimes reversible, oopen in front or worn inside out (de vuelta). It wa >worn over the basic undergarment, the shift, and under the outer skirt >(vasquina), kirtle, or saya, petticoat or skirt with bodice. (Bernis, 1962, >pp. 96, 107) > >On page 47, f.63, the caption for the pattern lay out is: "Skirt and bodice >of cloth with puffed sleeves." > >Same page, f.63a & 64, the captions read, " Skirt [with bodice] of cloth for >a woman." > >I noticed in the layouts he doesn't show the layouts for the small stuff >like the tabs, armsceyes wings and he doesn't specify them either, generally >saying trims are cut out of the cabbage. Again, does he presume then that >the user of his patterns would know that the skirt would go on a waistband? > >These books seems to support my thoughts that the bodice and the skirt are >*sometimes* joined, but don't want to jump to conclusions. So I thought I'd >put my questions before the collective knowledge of this list. I've come to the understanding from my research that the skirt and bodice for the outer layers were usually joined. Jerkins are an exception. They were a discrete article of clothing. It seems to me that it was the petticoat or kirtle layer where things were sometimes separate. Things like safeguards being an exception - a skirt by itself on the outside. >I'll keep looking for other sources and review the inventory in QEWU and see >what I find there, too. Good luck and have fun digging. I hope this helped. If you have any questions, please feel free to e-mail me privately. Cheers, Danielle dnunn@interlog.com ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 25 14:15:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA01460 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:15:01 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA02413; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:27:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA02692 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:17:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA02595 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:17:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA19368 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:19:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04319 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:18:55 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:18:54 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Figuring out elizabethan (long) In-Reply-To: <000001be60f0$6b17ec20$da22ffd0@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed Does anyone know of period descriptions/images/material items showing waistbands of any kind? I've been looking, but can't find them. Drea On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Hope H. Dunlap wrote: > > -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > >My understanding of the "waistband" used for > a women's skirt/kirtle/petticoat is more of a bias type > strip running along > the top, anchoring the pleats. > More than likely this was not a bias cut strip of self > fabric, but a tape, woven on a little tape loom. Stronger, > no stretch, and less wasteful of material. Sometimes folded > over the top of the gathers and sometimes just used flat. > Hope H. Dunlap > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com > [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Danielle Nunn > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 8:28 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Figuring out elizabethan (long) > > > > -Poster: Danielle Nunn > > Greetings, > > >I'm going to be taking the plunge soon and start working on > elizabethans for > >myself. > > Congratulations and have fun! > > >I've been starting with reviewing Janet Arnold's "Pattern's > of Fashion,... > >c1560-1620" and Juan de Alcega's "Tailor's Pattern Book > 1589". > > Excellent sources. > > >I'm confused by the use of the term Janet uses: "gown". To > me the term > >'gown' infers that the skirt and bodice are joined, which I > guess is a > >modern interpretation. > > >From my research I've found that a lot/most of them were one > piece. For > example, most of the ones in Arnold are one piece. Also, in > my research I > have seen no evidence of waistbands as we know them now used > on women's > garments in the 16th century (the earliest I document is > 1615 approx.) I > would be further inclined to believe in the majority being > an attached > bodice and skirt. Given the fact that the waistline on > bodices was cut to > the "natural waist" there would be a gap between bodice and > skirt. > > >A friend told me that the use of the term 'gown' by Janet > was to convey the > >'outfit in entirety' (pair of bodies, overskirt, > petticoat), and not the > >modern interpretation of joined at the waist seam. > > I never seen evidence for this interpretation. In fact > certain entries (I > don't have handy right now) in "Lost From Her Majesty's > Back" leed me to > believe it is a single garment/layer. > > >To further confuse me, Janet does give great details for > doublets, > >foreparts, petticoats (skirts), 'pair of bodies', > farthingales, corsets and > >all the pictures of construction, tabs, and boning. In her > schematics, she > >seems to include all the little details of the 'outer > shell' of the extant > >garments, but I don't seem to see any waistbands for the > skirts. Is it > >because it's presumed that the reader would know? Or is it > because the > >specific references are *not* 'english' elizabethan? Or > does that even > >matter? > > It is because modern waistbands do not appear to be used in > 16th century > England on women's garments. My understanding of the > "waistband" used for > a women's skirt/kirtle/petticoat is more of a bias type > strip running along > the top, anchoring the pleats. > > >I'll list only a *few* specifics from each of the books, > where the confusion > >starts: > > > >Page 40 caption for picture 286 "Back of Eleanora of > Toledo's satin bodice > >from the gown in which she was buried (pages 102-4), > Beneath it are > >fragments of her red velvet bodice or 'pair of bodies' > which fastened at the > >front with hooks and eyes. Palazzo Pitti, Florence" > > > >Page 42, picture & caption 297 "Velvet gown on pages 105-6 > worn by Grafin > >Katharina zur Lippe when she was buried, aged six, in 1600, > Lippisches > >Landesmuseumm, Detmold." > > > >Page 47, picture & caption 334 " Rich russet velvet gown > worn by > >Pfalzgrafin Dorothea Sabina von Neuberg, with a petticoat > of soft green silk > >(pages 113-14), 1598. Bayerisches Nationalmuseum, Munich." > > > >Page 48 Pictures & captions from 340 & 341 > > > >340: "Cut and uncut patterned velvet gown on pages 115 - > 16 worn by > >Pfalzgrafin Dorothea Maria von Sulzbach. The deep shoulder > wings are > >trimmed with wilk braid. The cut is similare to gowns in > the Spanish > >tailor's books (fig 36)..." > > This to me is very straight forward. She is referring to > the gown as a > "dress" in its entireity (sp?) - a combination of skirt and > bodice with or > without sleeves. > > >341: It's actually the picture in this case that is > causing confusion. The > >caption is about the silk braid, but when I look at the > picture, it looks > >like the skirt and bodice are sewn together at the seam. > Does anyone have a > >better picture? > > They ARE sewn together. > > >In Juan's book, in the "Main Notes", # 33 : " Manteo, a > semi-circular > >intermediate skirt, also called a Faldlin. It had a > waist-band and was > >sometimes reversible, oopen in front or worn inside out (de > vuelta). It wa > >worn over the basic undergarment, the shift, and under the > outer skirt > >(vasquina), kirtle, or saya, petticoat or skirt with > bodice. (Bernis, 1962, > >pp. 96, 107) > > > >On page 47, f.63, the caption for the pattern lay out is: > "Skirt and bodice > >of cloth with puffed sleeves." > > > >Same page, f.63a & 64, the captions read, " Skirt [with > bodice] of cloth for > >a woman." > > > >I noticed in the layouts he doesn't show the layouts for > the small stuff > >like the tabs, armsceyes wings and he doesn't specify them > either, generally > >saying trims are cut out of the cabbage. Again, does he > presume then that > >the user of his patterns would know that the skirt would go > on a waistband? > > > >These books seems to support my thoughts that the bodice > and the skirt are > >*sometimes* joined, but don't want to jump to conclusions. > So I thought I'd > >put my questions before the collective knowledge of this > list. > > I've come to the understanding from my research that the > skirt and bodice > for the outer layers were usually joined. Jerkins are an > exception. They > were a discrete article of clothing. It seems to me that it > was the > petticoat or kirtle layer where things were sometimes > separate. Things > like safeguards being an exception - a skirt by itself on > the outside. > > >I'll keep looking for other sources and review the > inventory in QEWU and see > >what I find there, too. > > Good luck and have fun digging. I hope this helped. If you > have any > questions, please feel free to e-mail me privately. > > Cheers, > Danielle > dnunn@interlog.com > > > ____________________________________________________________ > _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 25 19:02:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA02926 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:02:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA20589; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:16:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA04159 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:06:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from m5.sprynet.com (m5.sprynet.com [165.121.1.92]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA04123 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:06:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from spry117883spry01.sprynet.com (hil-c52-004-vty139.as.wcom.net [206.175.118.139]) by m5.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA14116 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:06:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002101be611b$6e9ac2c0$8b76afce@sprynet.com> From: "TC Carstensen" To: "h-costume" Subject: H-COST: Fabric Club Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:01:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE60F1.406CA780" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "TC Carstensen" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE60F1.406CA780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone had any experience ordering from www.fabricclub.com? I am = having problems with them regarding an order that should have been here = half a week ago. Ordinarily, I would figure the problem is with the = post office, but "help" I've gotten from their customer service has = been so questionable that I'm not convinced that they shipped it when = they said they did. It's not a good sign when you have to e-mail a = company twice over 2 days (they responded to the first one saying that = they'd have to check on it) and follow it up with a phone call before = they'll tell you the status of your order. OTOH, if most people have = had good experiences with them, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. What really aggravates me is that this material was for a 1930's-style = bias cut evening gown that I have have been dying to make for years. I = found out on short notice that I have to work at a high profile = fundraiser this weekend, which is probably the only opportunity I'd have = to wear something like that aside from New Year's Eve 1999. I was so = excited to finally have an excuse to make that dress! Now there's no = way I'll be able to finish it in time even if the material does show up = tomorrow. Thank heavens I have some gorgeous blue silk in my fabric = stash for Plan B - a mid-1920's evening gown which I will be making off = of a vintage pattern. TC Carstensen, the frustrated ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE60F1.406CA780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
What really aggravates me is that this material was for a = 1930's-style bias=20 cut evening gown that I have have been dying to make for years.  I = found=20 out on short notice that I have to work at a high profile fundraiser = this=20 weekend, which is probably the only opportunity I'd have to wear = something like=20 that aside from New Year's Eve 1999.   I was so excited to = finally=20 have an excuse to make that dress!  Now there's no way I'll be able = to=20 finish it in time even if the material does show up tomorrow.  = Thank=20 heavens I have some gorgeous blue silk in my fabric stash for Plan B - a = mid-1920's evening gown which I will be making off of a vintage = pattern.
 
 
 
TC Carstensen, the frustrated
------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BE60F1.406CA780-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 25 19:11:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA02958 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:11:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA21880; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:25:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA05750 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:16:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA05736 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:16:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailgate1.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22478 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:09:40 -0800 Received: from scv1.apple.com (scv1.apple.com) by mailgate1.apple.com (mailgate1.apple.com- SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:09:23 -0800 Received: from [17.202.21.54] (decaga.apple.com [17.202.21.54]) by scv1.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA25392 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:09:19 -0800 Message-Id: <199902260009.QAA25392@scv1.apple.com> Subject: H-COST: drawstrings in the leine Date: Thu, 25 Feb 99 16:12:02 -0800 x-sender: gdecamp@shell12.ba.best.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Gail DeCamp To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gail DeCamp I talked to the RPFN Scots costume expert (Clovis Carleton) in about 1992 or so; she said that they'd originally done the pleated bagpipe sleeves.... until someone washed a leine after a hard weekend and was hanging it out to dry when a really large and vicious-looking bug (I believe it was a potato bug) crawled out of one of the sleeve pleats. Yes, this is after the garment had already been through the washer. This induced the entire scots guild to begin making leines that gathered on a string, and could be stretched out completely when washed. Cheers! Gail (Disclaimer: This is the way I remember it; anyone who remembers it more accurately is welcome to correct me!) >AFAIK the use of drawstrings developed out of the Renfaire community. >As I recall being told, people at first came up with it as a way to >roughly imitate the pleats (which from my mother's research on the >subject were supposed to be carefully laid in place and occasionally >secured/decorated/highlighted with a piece of braid, a strip of >embriodery or trim of some kind but most often left plain) without >having to do the hard work of stitching them individually in place. >Kind of a quick n' easy, trim built-in machine method. Later, the >convenience and utility of the drawstring was discovered - the sleeves >can be pulled up further (besides being pulled back and tucked into >the belt) for washing dishes and other messy tasks, or for cooling off >a bit in the heat that is usual at faires in the US. They could also >be let down a bit for warmth in event of a cold day. Dogs come when you call them. Cats have answering machines. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 25 19:12:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA02965 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:12:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA21894; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:25:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id RAA05758 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:16:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id RAA05737 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:16:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA08451 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:16:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36D5E7F3.7CDD0D98@serv.net> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:16:52 -0800 From: Merouda of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Fabric Club References: <002101be611b$6e9ac2c0$8b76afce@sprynet.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------32C9B34E0DE309BAF482ED97" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda of Bornover --------------32C9B34E0DE309BAF482ED97 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Has anyone had any experience ordering from www.fabricclub.com? > >From what I can tell, the folks from the list who have ordered from fabricclub have been quite happy with their orders. > I found out on short notice that I have to work at a high profile > fundraiser this weekend, > I have discovered after crushing disappoint to *never* depend on mail order if I have a deadline. I think, by law, they have 6-8 weeks to deliver something. We should never expect something in a very short time, even though most vendors *do* mail things right away. > Thank > heavens I have some gorgeous blue silk in my fabric stash for Plan B - a mid-1920's evening gown > which I will be making off of a vintage pattern. > That's what fabric stashes are all about. *g* Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir --------------32C9B34E0DE309BAF482ED97 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
Has anyone had any experience ordering from www.fabricclub.com?
>From what I can tell, the folks from the list who have ordered from fabricclub have been quite happy with their orders.
  
 I found out on short notice that I have to work at a high profile
fundraiser this weekend,
 
I have discovered after crushing disappoint to *never* depend on mail order if I have a deadline.  I think, by law, they have 6-8 weeks to deliver something.  We should never expect something in a very short time, even though most vendors *do* mail things right away.
  
Thank
heavens I have some gorgeous blue silk in my fabric stash for Plan B - a mid-1920's evening gown
which I will be making off of a vintage pattern.
 
That's what fabric stashes are all about.  *g*

Cynthia
--
Cynthia Long
Merouda of Bornover
Barony of Madrone
Kingdom of An Tir
  --------------32C9B34E0DE309BAF482ED97-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 25 20:49:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03315 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:49:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA05358; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:00:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA18942 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:51:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com [207.46.181.19]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA18920 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:51:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.159 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:50:46 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Figuring out Elizabethan (long) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:28:06 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be612b$24e92620$9f14ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" It's my understanding that the modern style self-fabric waistband dates from about 1630 or 1640, a generation after Elizabeth I. In the Elizabethan period, re: tapes, I think we are talking about an anchoring device for pleats, a way of dealing with the top of a petticoat or an apron, no? Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of aleed Sent: Thursday, February 25, 1999 2:19 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Figuring out elizabethan (long) -Poster: aleed Does anyone know of period descriptions/images/material items showing waistbands of any kind? I've been looking, but can't find them. Drea On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Hope H. Dunlap wrote: > > -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > >My understanding of the "waistband" used for > a women's skirt/kirtle/petticoat is more of a bias type > strip running along > the top, anchoring the pleats. > More than likely this was not a bias cut strip of self > fabric, but a tape, woven on a little tape loom. Stronger, > no stretch, and less wasteful of material. Sometimes folded > over the top of the gathers and sometimes just used flat. > Hope H. Dunlap > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com > [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Danielle Nunn > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 8:28 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Figuring out elizabethan (long) > > > > -Poster: Danielle Nunn > > Greetings, > > >I'm going to be taking the plunge soon and start working on > elizabethans for > >myself. > > Congratulations and have fun! > > >I've been starting with reviewing Janet Arnold's "Pattern's > of Fashion,... > >c1560-1620" and Juan de Alcega's "Tailor's Pattern Book > 1589". > > Excellent sources. > > >I'm confused by the use of the term Janet uses: "gown". To > me the term > >'gown' infers that the skirt and bodice are joined, which I > guess is a > >modern interpretation. > > >From my research I've found that a lot/most of them were one > piece. For > example, most of the ones in Arnold are one piece. Also, in > my research I > have seen no evidence of waistbands as we know them now used > on women's > garments in the 16th century (the earliest I document is > 1615 approx.) I > would be further inclined to believe in the majority being > an attached > bodice and skirt. Given the fact that the waistline on > bodices was cut to > the "natural waist" there would be a gap between bodice and > skirt. > > >A friend told me that the use of the term 'gown' by Janet > was to convey the > >'outfit in entirety' (pair of bodies, overskirt, > petticoat), and not the > >modern interpretation of joined at the waist seam. > > I never seen evidence for this interpretation. In fact > certain entries (I > don't have handy right now) in "Lost From Her Majesty's > Back" leed me to > believe it is a single garment/layer. > > >To further confuse me, Janet does give great details for > doublets, > >foreparts, petticoats (skirts), 'pair of bodies', > farthingales, corsets and > >all the pictures of construction, tabs, and boning. In her > schematics, she > >seems to include all the little details of the 'outer > shell' of the extant > >garments, but I don't seem to see any waistbands for the > skirts. Is it > >because it's presumed that the reader would know? Or is it > because the > >specific references are *not* 'english' elizabethan? Or > does that even > >matter? > > It is because modern waistbands do not appear to be used in > 16th century > England on women's garments. My understanding of the > "waistband" used for > a women's skirt/kirtle/petticoat is more of a bias type > strip running along > the top, anchoring the pleats. > > >I'll list only a *few* specifics from each of the books, > where the confusion > >starts: > > > >Page 40 caption for picture 286 "Back of Eleanora of > Toledo's satin bodice > >from the gown in which she was buried (pages 102-4), > Beneath it are > >fragments of her red velvet bodice or 'pair of bodies' > which fastened at the > >front with hooks and eyes. Palazzo Pitti, Florence" > > > >Page 42, picture & caption 297 "Velvet gown on pages 105-6 > worn by Grafin > >Katharina zur Lippe when she was buried, aged six, in 1600, > Lippisches > >Landesmuseumm, Detmold." > > > >Page 47, picture & caption 334 " Rich russet velvet gown > worn by > >Pfalzgrafin Dorothea Sabina von Neuberg, with a petticoat > of soft green silk > >(pages 113-14), 1598. Bayerisches Nationalmuseum, Munich." > > > >Page 48 Pictures & captions from 340 & 341 > > > >340: "Cut and uncut patterned velvet gown on pages 115 - > 16 worn by > >Pfalzgrafin Dorothea Maria von Sulzbach. The deep shoulder > wings are > >trimmed with wilk braid. The cut is similare to gowns in > the Spanish > >tailor's books (fig 36)..." > > This to me is very straight forward. She is referring to > the gown as a > "dress" in its entireity (sp?) - a combination of skirt and > bodice with or > without sleeves. > > >341: It's actually the picture in this case that is > causing confusion. The > >caption is about the silk braid, but when I look at the > picture, it looks > >like the skirt and bodice are sewn together at the seam. > Does anyone have a > >better picture? > > They ARE sewn together. > > >In Juan's book, in the "Main Notes", # 33 : " Manteo, a > semi-circular > >intermediate skirt, also called a Faldlin. It had a > waist-band and was > >sometimes reversible, oopen in front or worn inside out (de > vuelta). It wa > >worn over the basic undergarment, the shift, and under the > outer skirt > >(vasquina), kirtle, or saya, petticoat or skirt with > bodice. (Bernis, 1962, > >pp. 96, 107) > > > >On page 47, f.63, the caption for the pattern lay out is: > "Skirt and bodice > >of cloth with puffed sleeves." > > > >Same page, f.63a & 64, the captions read, " Skirt [with > bodice] of cloth for > >a woman." > > > >I noticed in the layouts he doesn't show the layouts for > the small stuff > >like the tabs, armsceyes wings and he doesn't specify them > either, generally > >saying trims are cut out of the cabbage. Again, does he > presume then that > >the user of his patterns would know that the skirt would go > on a waistband? > > > >These books seems to support my thoughts that the bodice > and the skirt are > >*sometimes* joined, but don't want to jump to conclusions. > So I thought I'd > >put my questions before the collective knowledge of this > list. > > I've come to the understanding from my research that the > skirt and bodice > for the outer layers were usually joined. Jerkins are an > exception. They > were a discrete article of clothing. It seems to me that it > was the > petticoat or kirtle layer where things were sometimes > separate. Things > like safeguards being an exception - a skirt by itself on > the outside. > > >I'll keep looking for other sources and review the > inventory in QEWU and see > >what I find there, too. > > Good luck and have fun digging. I hope this helped. If you > have any > questions, please feel free to e-mail me privately. > > Cheers, > Danielle > dnunn@interlog.com > > > ____________________________________________________________ > _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 25 21:05:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA03392 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:05:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA07618; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:18:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA20897 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:08:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from m5.sprynet.com (m5.sprynet.com [165.121.2.92]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA20854 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:08:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from spry117883spry01.sprynet.com (hil-c52-004-vty139.as.wcom.net [206.175.118.139]) by m5.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA17219 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:08:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002f01be612c$6ce8bd40$8b76afce@sprynet.com> From: "TC Carstensen" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Fabric Club Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:05:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002C_01BE6102.828166E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "TC Carstensen" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BE6102.828166E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Merouda of Bornover wrote: >I have discovered after crushing disappoint to *never* depend on mail = order if I have a >deadline. =20 Yeah, I knew I was taking a risk. Fabric Club's excellent prices were = too much of a temptation, though. I would not have been able to make = the dress at all if I bought the cloth locally. I had to buy some extra = velvet tonight for plan B, and even at 25 percent off, I still paid = twice what it cost per yard for the velvet I bought from Fabric Club. >I think, by law, they have 6-8 weeks to deliver something. We should = never expect >something in a very short time, even though most vendors = *do* mail things right away =20 I think there's some corollary to Murphy's Law about the amount of time = it takes for material to arrive is inversely proportional to how soon = you will be able to or need to do anything with it. :/ Oh, well. Assuming my order hasn't been completely lost by the post = office, this does give me a really big head start for getting the dress = done in time for New Year's Eve. TC Carstensen ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BE6102.828166E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

From: Merouda=20 of Bornover  wrote:
>I have discovered after crushing = disappoint=20 to *never* depend on mail order if I have a >deadline. 
 
Yeah, I knew I was taking a risk.  Fabric = Club's=20 excellent prices were too much of a temptation, though.  I would = not have=20 been able to make the dress at all if I bought the cloth locally.  = I had to=20 buy some extra velvet tonight for plan B, and even at 25 percent off, I = still=20 paid twice what it cost per yard for the velvet I bought from Fabric=20 Club.
 
>I think, by law, they have 6-8 weeks to deliver = something.  We=20 should never expect >something in a very short time, even though most = vendors=20 *do* mail things right away 
 
I think there's some corollary to Murphy's Law about the amount of = time it=20 takes for material to arrive is inversely proportional to how soon you = will be=20 able to or need to do anything with it.  :/
 
Oh, well.  Assuming my order hasn't been completely lost by = the post=20 office, this does give me a really big head start for getting the dress = done in=20 time for New Year's Eve.
 
 
TC Carstensen
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BE6102.828166E0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 25 21:12:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA03418 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:12:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA08368; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:26:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA21775 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:16:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from web4-1.ability.net (root@web4-1.ability.net [216.32.69.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA21761; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:16:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from hawkeswood.com (betsy.ability.net [216.32.69.235]) by web4-1.ability.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/Pub) with ESMTP id VAA27223; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:05:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36D60478.5FD47E9D@hawkeswood.com> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:18:32 -0500 From: Betsy Delaney Organization: Hawkeswood Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: F-Costume , H-Costume List , ICG List Subject: H-COST: Lots of info just posted to www.Costume-Con.org! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Betsy Delaney Hi all! Since people have asked about CC17, I thought I would send an update to the lists, to let you know that the competition participant/award lists, dealer list, program list, and concom list are all available now on the website. Find out just exactly what's new by visiting: http://www.Costume-Con.org/whatsnew.html You'll also find the official vote count for Costume-Con 20. In case you haven't figured it out by now, we're going to Australia in 2002! Please let me know if you find any errors or mis-attributions in the site. Thanks! Your humble Webmistress, -betsy -- Betsy R. Delaney Webmistress at large ************************************************************************ betsy@hawkeswood.com or betsy@ability.net http://www.hawkeswood.com/, home of Hawkeswood Designs and http://www.Costume-Con.org/, home of Costume-ConNections (If you still have betsy@access.digex.net, change my address *NOW*!) ************************************************************************ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 25 21:47:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA03528 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:47:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA12604; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:01:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA25524 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:51:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA25505 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:51:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip220-241.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.241]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA03973 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:51:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990225203829.009c7130@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:38:29 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: RE: H-COST: Figuring out elizabethan In-Reply-To: <000001be60f0$6b17ec20$da22ffd0@default> References: <3.0.1.32.19990224202801.0097f7e0@mail.interlog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >>My understanding of the "waistband" used for >>a women's skirt/kirtle/petticoat is more of a bias type >>strip running along >>the top, anchoring the pleats. >More than likely this was not a bias cut strip of self >fabric, but a tape, woven on a little tape loom. Stronger, >no stretch, and less wasteful of material. Sometimes folded >over the top of the gathers and sometimes just used flat. >Hope H. Dunlap Actually, there is mention in Alcega of cutting the waistband out of the "cabbage" or scraps. However, I kind of had "bias" in my head because I've been using bias tape recently. :) It doesn't actually specify in which direction the band would be cut. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 25 21:47:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA03532 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:47:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA12647; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:01:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA25569 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:51:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA25539 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:51:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip220-241.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.241]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA04014 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:51:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990225214955.009c8790@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:49:55 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: H-COST: Re: hats In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings Gregory, How are you? Are you still willing to do the hat box and hat swap? I haven't heard back from you so I would just like to know. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 25 21:47:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA03537 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:47:48 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA12622; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:01:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA25561 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:51:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA25523 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:51:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip220-241.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.241]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA03990 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:51:21 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990225213552.009c7860@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:35:52 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: RE: H-COST: Neck Ruffs - sources (long) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990126112353.00c12b20@pop.slip.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19990124232116.00a72330@mail.interlog.com> <199901242205.OAA25010@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Please cite pictures in commonly available costume books so I can see these >too. I haven't seen them, or don't remember having seen them. >Kayta Since it had been demanded that I show examples of different ruff styles and my first reply to this didn't seem to make it to the list (did anyone see it?). I have re-compiled a short list of pictures. Ashelford, Jane: A Visual History of Costume, The Sixteenth Century, London 1983 page# fig. descripition 63 55 Unknown Lady, 1557 by H. Eworth. This is obviously a large ruffle. It appears (under magnification) to be edged in bobbin lace, a tight button-hole type stitch, or a cord. The wrist "ruffs" match. 66 58 Unknown Lady, 1560 by H. Eworth. This is two layers of "figure 8" type ruff which are embroidered. The wrist ruffs match. It is interesting to note the tapering of the "figure 8s." 70 62 Sir Thomas Throckmorton, c. 1562, Unknown artist. His ruff is a single layer of "figure 8s" with matching wrist ruffs. It appears (under magnification) to be edged in bobbin lace. The edge of the band is visible on the left hand side but, the form of attachment isn't visible even under magnification. 71 63 Henry Stuart, Lord Darnley and Charles Stuart, Earl of Lennox, 1563. by H. Eworth. Their ruffs are single layers of "figure 8s" with matching wrist ruffs. It is interesting to note how dark Charles Stuart's ruffs are. They are either coloured or HEAVILY ornamented. The interesting thing about Henry's is the cords hanging. They suggest that the ruff was tied. colour 106 Lettice Knollys, Countess of Leicseter, c.1585, attr. George Gower. She is wearing a large "accordian pleated" (not a technical term, I just thought it fit) ruff which is butted against the band and is probably, "cartridge" pleated to the top edge of the band. Her wrist ruffs are turned back lawn or gauze which appears to be embroidered. 74 68 Edward Windsor, 3rd Baron Windsor, c. 1568, A. Mor (attr.) He is wearing an embroidered falling band. 103 109 Unknown girl, 1587, J. Bettes. She is also wearing a large pleated ruff which is butted against the band and is probably, "cartridge" pleated to the top edge of the band. Note the large gap between the collar of her smock and the ruff band. 116 123 Unknown girl, 1590, I. Oliver. This little girl is wearing a lovely box pleated ruff which has a narrow lace edge. Her wrist ruffs are turned back fabric edged in lace. Arnold, Janet: Patterns of Fashion, The Cut and Construction of Clothes for Men and Women c.1560-1620, London 1985 page# fig. descripition 29 200 Richard Sackville, 3rd Earl of Dorset, c.1613, attr. William Larkin. He is wearing a large flat falling band worn over a supportasse. (The supportasse isn't evident but, I have seen pictures of an extant one which was almost identical.) 47 332 Bianca Capelle, c. 1570, Bronzino. She is wearing a "figure 8" type ruff where the top edge of the band is clearly visible. It is equally clear that the ruff was gathered slightly before being pleated. 50 354 Kneeling effigy of Magdalen, wife of Edward Lord Bruce of Kinloss, 1610. It is extremely evident from the 3/4 back view that the deeply pleated ruff was not gathered into the top of the band but attached most likely in a cartridge pleat fashion. These were a bunch of different examples from only two books, do I need to go on? I hope this helps. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 25 21:47:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA03541 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:47:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA12621; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:01:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA25525 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:51:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA25514 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:51:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip220-241.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.241]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA03976 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:51:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990225204103.009c7870@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:41:03 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: RE: H-COST: Figuring out elizabethan (long) In-Reply-To: References: <000001be60f0$6b17ec20$da22ffd0@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Does anyone know of period descriptions/images/material items showing >waistbands of any kind? I've been looking, but can't find them. >Drea Not before 1615 for women's clothing. The closest there is, is the skirt in "Patterns of Fashion" on page 49, figure 351. The waistband appears to have been added later according to Arnold. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 25 22:58:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA03818 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 22:58:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA22670; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:12:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA02724 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:02:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA02679 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:02:21 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip174.van17.pacifier.com [216.65.137.174]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA19773 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:26:22 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902260326.TAA19773@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:27:07 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: H-COST: Figuring out elizabethan (long) Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19990225204103.009c7870@mail.interlog.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > >Does anyone know of period descriptions/images/material items showing > >waistbands of any kind? I've been looking, but can't find them. > Not before 1615 for women's clothing. The closest there is, is the skirt > in "Patterns of Fashion" on page 49, figure 351. The waistband appears to > have been added later according to Arnold. In Alcega's Tailors Pattern Book 1589 facsimile they discuss how to cut a waistband for a woman's skirt. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 25 23:14:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03893 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 23:14:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA25381; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:28:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA04700 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:18:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA04693 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:18:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc1010062-a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with SMTP id <19990226041839.PXHT20945.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062-a> for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:18:39 -0800 Message-ID: <027901be613d$ed857b80$cb860318@cc1010062-a.avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Fabric Club Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 23:05:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0268_01BE6113.5F0FDAA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0268_01BE6113.5F0FDAA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've discovered that calling in orders and having them run and check = stock works better sometimes for something important. I'm not sure if = it's that they are afraid to lose the sale or what...but if they run out = and need to reorder...or don't have anymore in stock but are waiting for = a shipment "any day"...they don't notify you :\ I've started requesting in the comments area when I order online...that = they please notify me if something is on back order and not hold the = rest of the shipment...that I'll pay any difference in shipping by = sending items separate. This seems to have worked better too. I now get = a call if they only have such and such yardage left rather than what I = want...do I want it or want to wait for the reorder.=20 Meanwhile, things they have had in stock, I've received right = away...within 4 days of calling them about it. But the prices are good = :) ~Kyna =20 From: Merouda of Bornover wrote: =20 =20 >I think, by law, they have 6-8 weeks to deliver something. We = should never expect >something in a very short time, even though most = vendors *do* mail things right away =20 =20 I think there's some corollary to Murphy's Law about the amount of = time it takes for material to arrive is inversely proportional to how = soon you will be able to or need to do anything with it. :/ =20 Oh, well. Assuming my order hasn't been completely lost by the post = office, this does give me a really big head start for getting the dress = done in time for New Year's Eve. =20 =20 TC Carstensen ------=_NextPart_000_0268_01BE6113.5F0FDAA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've discovered that calling in = orders and=20 having them run and check stock works better sometimes for something = important.=20 I'm not sure if it's that they are afraid to lose the sale or what...but = if they=20 run out and need to reorder...or don't have anymore in stock but are = waiting for=20 a shipment "any day"...they don't notify you :\
 
I've started requesting in the comments area when I = order=20 online...that they please notify me if something is on back order and = not hold=20 the rest of the shipment...that I'll pay any difference in shipping by = sending=20 items separate. This seems to have worked better too. I now get a call = if they=20 only have such and such yardage left rather than what I want...do I want = it or=20 want to wait for the reorder.
 
Meanwhile, things they have had in stock, I've = received right=20 away...within 4 days of calling them about it. But the prices are good=20 :)
 
~Kyna
 
From: Merouda of Bornover  = wrote:
 
>I think, by law, they have 6-8 weeks to deliver = something.  We=20 should never expect >something in a very short time, even though = most=20 vendors *do* mail things right away 
 
I think there's some corollary to Murphy's Law about the amount = of time=20 it takes for material to arrive is inversely proportional to how = soon you=20 will be able to or need to do anything with it.  :/
 
Oh, well.  Assuming my order hasn't been completely lost = by the=20 post office, this does give me a really big head start for getting = the dress=20 done in time for New Year's Eve.
 
 
TC Carstensen
 
------=_NextPart_000_0268_01BE6113.5F0FDAA0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Feb 25 23:25:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03952 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 23:25:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA26619; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:38:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA05729 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:28:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA05721 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:28:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from gia-g (dialup327.serv.net [207.207.70.220]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA12234 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:28:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001101be6140$f6657cc0$dc46cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Figuring out elizabethan waistbands Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:27:09 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To add to this, in Juan's tailoring book only the layout diagrams f55 (skirt of cloth for woman), f55a (skirt for a woman) and f56 (A narrow skirt of cloth) seem to have specific references to "waistband" (faxa) to be cut out of a remnant. The spanish word is 'manteo' which is being translated into skirt. Then there's the Main Notes #33, which I included in my original post: "Manteo: A semi circular intermediate skirt, also called a faldellin. It had a waistband and was sometimes reversible, open in front or worn inside out (de vuelta). It was worn over the basic undergarment, the shift, and under the outer skirt (vasquina), kirtle, or 'saya', petticoat or skirt with bodice..." This book is written (or so it says on the cover) 1589. So I get the idea that maybe waistbands were used at least at this point in time. Would it make a difference that the layout book is "Spanish"? I think there are a few mentions in QEWU about QE wanting to find a french tailor, and a few mentions of things cut in the 'spanish', 'french' etc. manner. Gia/Giacinta a confused costumer learning *alot*!!! > >-Poster: Danielle Nunn > >Greetings, > >>Does anyone know of period descriptions/images/material items showing >>waistbands of any kind? I've been looking, but can't find them. >>Drea > >Not before 1615 for women's clothing. The closest there is, is the skirt >in "Patterns of Fashion" on page 49, figure 351. The waistband appears to >have been added later according to Arnold. > >Cheers, >Danielle > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 02:41:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA29009 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 02:41:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA12670; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 00:55:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA20722 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 00:46:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA20715 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 00:46:01 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id pGLIa11675 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 02:45:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <116ffed.36d6510e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 02:45:18 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Leine sleeves, yet again. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 2/22/99 9:59:14 AM Pacific Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: > > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > > >The use of drawstrings is something I can't comment on, but > >period writings and illustrations definitely support lots of > >fabric, pleats and more pleats. > > Yes, but where? The pictures I've seen don't support the modern version > with pleats along the top of the arm. Several of these pictures show the > top of the arm quite clearly, and all I see there are folds of fabric, > exactly what would result if you took a wide, wrist length sleeve and pushed > it up toward your elbow. Yes, exactly. There are comments about pleats, but the pleats over the sleeve are an invention of the Renaissance Pleasure Faires in California. I watched it happen, and even helped it along by publishing an article in the SCA's Tournaments Illuminated. Once or twice a year now I have to both apologize and try to talk people out of using that article as primary documentation. Too, we always have to face the problem of translation in costume research. Which garment was pleated? "Manifoldly pleated" isn't it? Well, if there's a lot of fabric in the body of the leine, it's going to "pleat" under the belt. So will a brat or even (she said carefully) something the might be mistaken for a great kilt. There's no evidence for pleating on top of the arm. It's most useful to actually cut the sleeve to finish shorter than shoulder to wrist. The drawstring trick was a specific invention of Clan MacColin's washer women "working the well" at Southern Faire back in the late 70s-early 80s. And they told two friends. And they told two friends.... MaggiRos or Mairghread-Ros FitzGarret of Desmond, etc etc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 06:04:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA03335 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 06:04:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id EAA23691; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 04:19:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id EAA09131 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 04:09:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id EAA08986 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 04:09:14 -0700 (MST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id TDCEa04317 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 06:08:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 06:08:27 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Fabric Club Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com Actually, the mail order rule requires that goods be delivered within 30 days, or you must be notified of the delay. BUT this only applies if YOU order by mail, not by phone, e-mail, etc. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 08:37:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA04211 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:37:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA03209; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 06:51:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA10088 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 06:41:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA10079 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 06:41:35 -0700 (MST) From: trekona@erols.com Received: from erols.com (207-172-131-90.s90.tnt4.col.erols.com [207.172.131.90]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id IAA00602 for < h-costume@indra.com>; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:41:37 -0500 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com (h-costume) Subject: H-COST: silk noile Date: Fri, 26 Feb 99 13:47:22 GMT Message-ID: X-Mailer: Quarterdeck Message Center [2.00] Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: trekona@erols.com Hi folks- I need some help documenting 'raw' silk. I know that it is properly called silk noile, and I know that it is a fairly modern fabric. Now I need to convince someone else who believes that it is the original 'old' silk! Thanks in advance. -Judy Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 09:24:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA10430 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:24:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA08307; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 07:39:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA14374 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 07:29:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA14316 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 07:29:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from 168.191.20.165 (sdn-ar-002dcwashP077.dialsprint.net [168.191.20.165]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA06688 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 06:29:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36D66D89.DC971315@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:46:56 +0000 From: margo king X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: 50's HELP! X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: margo king Dear List - My son has a Bar Mitzvah to go to and the party is a 50's theme. My brain is dead - I can come up with the 'Grease' look - jeans, t-shirt but....my son is not fond of jeans..any suggestions, ideas? Many thanks! Margo King _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 10:55:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10759 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:55:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA20135; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:09:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA29019 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:59:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail1.carolina.rr.com (fe1.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.48]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA29009 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:59:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from presario400 ([24.93.91.142]) by mail1.carolina.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:55:43 -0500 From: "Gregory Stapleton" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: 50's HELP! Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:52:40 -0500 Message-ID: <000801be61a0$09cc5400$8e5b5d18@presario400.carolina.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <36D66D89.DC971315@earthlink.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Gregory Stapleton" How about a sharp "sharkskin" suit with an appropriate hat, alla Frank Sinatra and the Rat Pack? Kind of a gangster look.... Gawain / Gregory > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of margo king > Sent: Friday, February 26, 1999 4:47 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Re: 50's HELP! > > > > -Poster: margo king > > Dear List - My son has a Bar Mitzvah to go to and the party is a 50's > theme. My brain is dead - I can come up with the 'Grease' look - jeans, > t-shirt but....my son is not fond of jeans..any suggestions, ideas? > Many thanks! Margo King > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 12:04:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA11064 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:04:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA03886; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:16:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA13044 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:06:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA13022; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:06:39 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:06:39 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902261706.KAA13022@indra.com> To: From: "David W. Rickman" Subject: H-COST: Russian costume Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "David W. Rickman" Hello, I am looking for someone[s] who knows Russian folk costume. Best of all would be someone who speaks and/or reads Russian, because I am trying to find out the meaning of certain terms for articles of clothing. This is in connection with the Fort Ross Apparel Project. Thanks. David _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 12:10:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA11086 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:10:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA05996; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:24:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA14374 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:14:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA14365; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:14:10 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:14:10 -0700 (MST) From: Elizabeth Lear Message-Id: <199902261714.KAA14365@indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: RE: Russian costume Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Lear Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA11222 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:41:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA12264; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:56:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA20338 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:46:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA20314 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:46:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.116] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10GRKu-00066d-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:46:04 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990226091307.00b44db0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:16:57 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: "Scarlett Fever" In-Reply-To: <199902232151.NAA16769@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>I have seen the painting they got that ruffled white dress with the short >>sleeves from. Unfortunately it's period (shudder). > >Do you mean the white one with red trimmings she wears in the first scene? >That's amazing. It looks SO 1938 to me. It looks that way to me too. If I hadn't seen this painting I wouldn't have believed it either. Of course it's the only example I have ever seen, and of course that's the one they picked. I don't remember the trim, as this isn't my favourite film. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 12:42:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA11229 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:42:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA12303; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:56:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA20346 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:46:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA20322 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:46:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.116] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10GRKv-00066d-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:46:06 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990226091948.00b48760@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:22:18 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 16th C stomachers In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990222174126.00a25e70@pop.slip.net> <36C78A4C.6FB7@wireweb.net> <4.1.19990222174126.00a25e70@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >> > Beating Digby's drum again, he shows several surviving stomachers >> >in his "Elizabethan Embroidery"..... >> >> After reading your post I rushed to my copy to see these stomachers. I >> couldn't find them. Which illos are you calling stomachers? > > Alas and alack, the Library Police descended upon me and took my ILL >copy back (and said harsh words...) so I can't give numbers.... I only >remember that he has several items so designated, some paired with matching >sleeves. I read somebody else's post about this, and looked in the back of the illo section where all the cushions were. Ills 36 and 37 include the stomachers. They weren't where I first looked for them up in front of the section with the sweet bags. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 12:43:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA11236 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:43:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA12291; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:56:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA20347 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:46:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA20327 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:46:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.116] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10GRKx-00066d-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:46:08 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990226092301.00b4e9b0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:42:03 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: Subject: H-COST: "Scarlett Fever" In-Reply-To: <36D334C7.F87C5036@rust.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I have seen the painting they got that ruffled white dress with the >short >sleeves from. Unfortunately it's period (shudder). > >I sure hope it was on a rich young girl. The major complaint isn't so >much with the BBQ dress itself (although it is rather 'unique') so much >as the fact that women who could have daughters and even granddaughters >who are 16 years old are wearing their version of it. >With short sleeves and low neck during the day and a sash and bow at the >back, it is a teenagers party dress, not something an adult woman would >wear. After all, Scarlett was only 16 years old at the start of the >book.... >Vivien Leigh still looked like mutton dressed as a lamb even if she was >a lovely mutton. ;-> >BTW, where is the painting and who was the artist? I saw it in Max von Boehn's 'Die Mode, Menschen und Moden im 19.Jahrhundert', the 1843-1878 volume (no ISBN). I lost my 1919 copy to someone who borrowed it, and was VERY fortunate in finding a 1963 printing of it. I believe it came out in English as well, but that's not the one I have. For an older costume book (originally from 1909, I think) it is invaluable, as it is stuffed with pictures. Unfortunately my German is not up to reading the text. The painting, on page 57, is by Alfred Stevens, and the title of it is 'The Novel', no date given. The young lady in the picture looks like maybe a teenager. The overall impression is very 1930's - horizontally tucked bodice with Peter Pan collar and front buttons, pronounced shoulders, hair in a snood. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 12:50:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA11265 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:50:14 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA13967; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:04:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA21735 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:54:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from isomedia.com (root@watson.isomedia.com [207.149.221.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA21712 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:54:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from wingate (pm606.isomedia.com [209.102.115.71]) by isomedia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA15189 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:53:57 -0800 From: "Wylie & Gail" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: "Scarlett Fever" Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:51:36 -0800 Message-ID: <000101be61b0$a8a55b20$64bffea9@wingate> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990226091307.00b44db0@pop.slip.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Wylie & Gail" I feel so stupid, but can someone tell me what movie or picture is being discussed here? GWTW?? ~G -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Friday, 26 February, 1999 09:17 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: "Scarlett Fever" -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>I have seen the painting they got that ruffled white dress with the short >>sleeves from. Unfortunately it's period (shudder). > >Do you mean the white one with red trimmings she wears in the first scene? >That's amazing. It looks SO 1938 to me. It looks that way to me too. If I hadn't seen this painting I wouldn't have believed it either. Of course it's the only example I have ever seen, and of course that's the one they picked. I don't remember the trim, as this isn't my favourite film. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 13:05:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA11346 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:05:06 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA16377; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA24208 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:09:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu (oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu [128.174.48.92]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA24161 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:08:53 -0700 (MST) Received: by oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:14:45 -0600 Message-ID: <6BAA9E7DB36AD2118FA60060943F1CAF1466EA@oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu> From: "Abbott, Ruth" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: A Leine, the correct way Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:14:43 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Abbott, Ruth" Ok, I am firmly convinced that the "SCA usual" way to make a leine is just plain incorrect. Will someone (MaggiRos, perhap?) please tell us all the right way to make a leine? I have mulled this over for a while and re-examined the evidence I have, and I still come up with the idea that (at it's most voluminous) a leine had pleats along the shoulders and down the arm. Sewn in pleats, I'm thinking, but still pleats. So, how would you (anyone that has more complete ideas on this) go about making one? Alix _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 14:22:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA11691 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:22:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA29876; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:36:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA08022 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:26:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA08016 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:26:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.97] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10GSte-0001QG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:26:03 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990226104444.00cd3220@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:49:12 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Theatrical spangles and fringes In-Reply-To: <36D3EE97.50853FB4@btinternet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Having been a lurker to this list for some time, >I'm not at all sure if my question is appropriate. >Nevertheless, here goes. My interest in matters >theatrical (Victorian and Edwardian), leads me to >ask if anyone might know of recent publications >covering the manufacture and use of spangles, >bullion fringes and other metal costume adornments >in the theatre, particularly during the period >1850 to 1885. When you find out please let me know. I want to make an 1880's 'fancy dress' Medieval which looks like it came from the stock of a theatre, and have been holding off for years for want of examples. I have a few pictures fuzzily showing the use of this gold stuff, but no clear examples. I sometimes see antique theatre garments for sale in vintage shops, but they're mostly from later. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 14:23:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA11695 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:22:53 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA29925; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:36:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA08049 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:26:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA08037 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:26:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.171.199.97] (helo=thelema) by mole.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10GSth-0001QG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:26:06 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990226110012.00b63ee0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:00:52 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 50's HELP! In-Reply-To: <36D66D89.DC971315@earthlink.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Dear List - My son has a Bar Mitzvah to go to and the party is a 50's >theme. My brain is dead - I can come up with the 'Grease' look - jeans, >t-shirt but....my son is not fond of jeans..any suggestions, ideas? >Many thanks! Margo King Chinos, and a Pat Boone clean cut look? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 14:23:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA11702 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:23:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA00185; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:36:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA08145 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:26:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA08136 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:26:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p22.directcon.net [206.170.184.71]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA09470 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:19:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:19:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902261919.LAA09470@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Leine sleeves, yet again. Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson Thanks, everyone. I have copied this thread, along with older threads from the archives, to send tothe person who asked me for information, who is in charge of a large group of Irish actors at a major event (how's that for coy) and is considering doing away with leines pleated along the top of the arm. If this happens, and other people copy them, and other people copy THEM, people all over the world might be wearing the correct style in another 25 years. About which time new research will be done or old evidence discovered that will prove that something else about them is all wrong, and we'll start all over again! Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 14:26:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA11716 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:26:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA00890; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:40:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA08722 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:30:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA08682 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:30:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA09777 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:30:45 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:30:44 -0600 (CST) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 50's HELP! (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> The 50's not being my period, I went to the best authority I know for help. Emma ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:13:39 -0500 From: Patricia Voichahoske Lehman To: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu>, mkings@earthlink.net Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 50's HELP! (fwd) Hi. I'm Emma's mother. I'll tell you what guys really wore in the 50's, which may not be exactly what the other kids at the Bar Mitzvah will recognize as 50's (most modern kids think the cheerleaders actually wore Spandex like in Grease.) The two major non-greaser modes: (either one would either have a crew-cut or flat-top, or the hair parted, greased up, and combed to the side and back from a side part.) 1. The guy who'd go steady with a cheerleader: - White button-down Oxford cloth shirt. Tucked in. Top button unbuttoned. No tie. - Trousers of gray twill or khaki. A little loose, but not too big, and NOT pleated front (that's what uncles wore.) Definitely with a belt -- leather, black or brown. - Socks could be argyle or plain, in brown, navy, black. Must wear socks. - Shoes would be either ordinary oxford ties or (more stylish) brown penny loafers. Boys did not wear pennies. Girls did. And upper crust boys NEVER wore tennis shoes in high school unless actually in the gym. - He could add a v-neck sleeveless sweater vest in argyle or plain, or a letter-sweater style cardigan (long sleeves, buttons up to the v-front, ribbed at wrist and waist.) It wouldn't have been a cable or other interesting knit, just simple wool. If you have a letter on the sweater, even cooler. 2. The lovable goofball kind of guy. - Hawaiian or other ugly print short-sleeved shirt over a white t-shirt (either regular or tank top), with the top button unbuttoned and (optional) a pack of cigarettes in the pocket (not rolled in the sleeve). NOT tucked in. - Same pants as above: twill or khaki, plain front, still with a belt. Five-pocket dark blue Levi jeans would do as well, but your son doesn't like them, so don't even mention them. - White gym-type socks, not to the ankle but a bit longer, and not rolled down. - Converse high-tops in black or white only. No colors permitted. - Now here's what would make it a really 50's outfit: over the baggy, untucked cotton shirt is a waist-length Eisenhower-style jacket, so the bottom of the shirt sticks out around the bottom like a little skirt . Gross! But as much a part of the look as the underwear showing at the top of hip-hop baggy pants now. Even better if it's a black silk jacket your big brother sent you from Korea, with a dragon embroidered on the back. But it must end at the waist. Neither of the guys I describe would ever, ever wear a hat of any kind. No way. Never. Un-boy, ungood. Hope he has a great time. If in doubt, just watch Leave it to Beaver. Tish At 11:04 AM 2/26/99 -0600, you wrote: > >This is your period, not mine....can you help? > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 09:46:56 +0000 >From: margo king >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: H-COST: Re: 50's HELP! > > >-Poster: margo king > >Dear List - My son has a Bar Mitzvah to go to and the party is a 50's >theme. My brain is dead - I can come up with the 'Grease' look - jeans, >t-shirt but....my son is not fond of jeans..any suggestions, ideas? >Many thanks! Margo King ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Patricia Voichahoske Lehman aka Tish Lehman UIS Systems Security QA Mgr., M-Pathways The University of Michigan 2014 Ad Serv Bldg 1432 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 15:29:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA11962 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:29:27 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA12948; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:43:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA20227 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:33:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from fw2.roguewave.com (firewall-user@fw2.roguewave.com [208.151.233.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA20200 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:33:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by fw2.roguewave.com; id MAA10807; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:28:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com(10.68.4.36) via SMTP by net.indra.com, id smtpd010761; Fri Feb 26 12:27:58 1999 Received: by cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id <1X7FZXGW>; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:35:16 -0800 Message-ID: From: Betsy Perry To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Theatrical spangles and fringes Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:35:07 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Betsy Perry Have you considered reading actors' biographies? I have a picture biography of Sarah Bernhardt that has many photographs of her in costume. Joanna Richardson, _Sarah Bernhardt and her World_, SBN: 399-11887-X, c. 1977, Putnam. > When you find out please let me know. I want to make an 1880's 'fancy > dress' Medieval which looks like it came from the stock of a > theatre, and > have been holding off for years for want of examples. I have a few > pictures fuzzily showing the use of this gold stuff, but no > clear examples. > I sometimes see antique theatre garments for sale in vintage > shops, but > they're mostly from later. > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 16:14:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA12179 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:14:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA19745; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:28:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA27671 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:18:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA27650 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:18:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-114.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.114]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id NAA15364; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:18:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36D69F39.CA1C06E8@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:18:54 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com, Wylie&Gail Subject: Re: H-COST: "Scarlett Fever" References: <000101be61b0$a8a55b20$64bffea9@wingate> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, Gail asked: > I feel so stupid, but can someone tell me what movie or picture > is being discussed here? GWTW?? I'm assuming from the subject line that it's "Gone with the Wind". Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 16:25:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA12226 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:25:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA21698; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:39:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA29362 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:29:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA29329 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:29:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from unknown (vcn28.pm3-3.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.240.147]) by sight.vcn.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 51443F51BA; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:29:08 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <199902261919.LAA09470@zeus.directcon.net> References: Conversation <199902261919.LAA09470@zeus.directcon.net> with last message <199902261919.LAA09470@zeus.directcon.net> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Subject: H-COST: H-COST - loose gowns+kirtles Date: Fri, 26 Feb 99 15:32:11 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id QAA12226 Status: O -Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Greetings! I have what I hope is a quick question - would loose gown/kirtle combos (like those seen in "Patterns of Fashion") be suitable for wear outside the lady's house, or were these strictly indoor garments? They look very comfortable for us full figured girls...... All Health! Liadain _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 16:30:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA12257 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:30:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA22358; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:44:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA00182 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:34:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from isomedia.com (root@watson.isomedia.com [207.149.221.16]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA00153 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:34:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from wingate (pm606.isomedia.com [209.102.115.71]) by isomedia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA04872 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:33:59 -0800 From: "Wylie & Gail" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: "Scarlett Fever" Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:31:31 -0800 Message-ID: <000901be61cf$61c24a00$64bffea9@wingate> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <36D69F39.CA1C06E8@pacbell.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Wylie & Gail" Dietmar, I don't assume anything! It's far too dangerous. ~G -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Dietmar Sent: Friday, 26 February, 1999 05:19 To: h-costume@indra.com; Wylie&Gail Subject: Re: H-COST: "Scarlett Fever" -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, Gail asked: > I feel so stupid, but can someone tell me what movie or picture > is being discussed here? GWTW?? I'm assuming from the subject line that it's "Gone with the Wind". Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 16:43:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA12315 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:43:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA24685; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:57:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA02297 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:47:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA02277 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:47:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-114.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.114]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id NAA04611 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:47:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36D6A5F0.D358C715@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:47:35 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Theatrical spangles and fringes References: <4.1.19990226104444.00cd3220@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Kayta wrote: > When you find out please let me know. I want to make an 1880's 'fancy > dress' Medieval which looks like it came from the stock of a theatre, > and have been holding off for years for want of examples. I have a few > pictures fuzzily showing the use of this gold stuff, but no clear examples. Look for a copy of "the Victor Book of the Opera". It's copyrighted 1929, but also 1949, 1953, and 1968. It has plenty of pictures of operas from that period. I can scan some pictures if you need. You might also try looking for a biography of Richard Wagner with lots of pictures. Most of his operas debuted in this country around the 1880's and deal with medieval themes or are based on epic poems of medieval minnesa"nger. Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 16:44:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA12322 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:44:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA24965; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:58:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA02528 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:49:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f261.hotmail.com [207.82.251.152]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id OAA02520 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:48:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 5043 invoked by uid 0); 26 Feb 1999 21:48:27 -0000 Message-ID: <19990226214827.5041.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.206.84.216 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:48:26 PST X-Originating-IP: [208.206.84.216] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Three Tier Gowns Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:48:26 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" >-Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com > >In a message dated 2/19/99 8:35:16 PM EST, penny.creative.outlets@erols.com >writes: > ><< Still have not seen those all pastel ruffled gowns portrayed in magazines. >>> > >I have seen several of them...they were most popular in the mid to late 1850s, >which drives me nuts...I love them, and they're too old for my reenacting >character. > We have seen an original letter in which a rural-dwelling mother of moderate means (the family formerly had money, but lost it through bad fortune) describes ordering a "gown with flounces of brown silk" for her fourteen year old daughter in 1852. I always wondered if it meant a flounced skirt, in tiers, as we are speaking of here. Or could it have meant ruffles at the neck, shoulder, or sleeve area? Any thoughts? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 16:46:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA12332 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:46:49 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA25342; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:01:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA02861 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:51:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA02841 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:51:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-114.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.114]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id NAA06504 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:51:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36D6A6CD.13F2797A@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:51:16 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 50's HELP! References: <4.1.19990226110012.00b63ee0@pop.slip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Margo King wrote: > Dear List - My son has a Bar Mitzvah to go to and the party is a 50's > theme. My brain is dead - I can come up with the 'Grease' look - jeans, > t-shirt but....my son is not fond of jeans..any suggestions, ideas? Why don't you go with the two-tone bowling shirt look. Chinos would work well, and you could always look for pictures of Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens, Jerry Lee Lewis, etc. for ideas. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 17:18:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA12469 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:18:16 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA01499; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:32:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA08223 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:22:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from send304.yahoomail.com (web304.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.186]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id PAA08202 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:22:46 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <19990226222359.29220.rocketmail@send304.yahoomail.com> Received: from [129.237.252.19] by web304.yahoomail.com; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:23:59 PST Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:23:59 -0800 (PST) From: Margretta de Vries Subject: H-COST: Re: H-COST - loose gowns+kirtles To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margretta de Vries > Greetings! > > I have what I hope is a quick question - would loose > gown/kirtle combos (like those seen in "Patterns of > Fashion") be suitable for wear outside the lady's > house, or were these strictly indoor garments? They > look very comfortable for us full figured girls...... Somehow, I can't imagine that a person would wear something with so much decoration such as that dress in "Patterns of Fashion" could possibly be only for home wear... Surely women wore stuff like that exactly because not everyone had the "perfect" figure? I'm hoping to copy that gown sometime, too! Margretta == Margretta de Vries _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 18:02:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA12611 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:02:46 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA08471; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:15:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id QAA16351 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:05:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id QAA16323 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:05:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from unknown (vcn28.pm3-3.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.240.147]) by sight.vcn.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4BD55F51A7; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:05:28 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19990226222359.29220.rocketmail@send304.yahoomail.com> References: Conversation <19990226222359.29220.rocketmail@send304.yahoomail.com> with last message <19990226222359.29220.rocketmail@send304.yahoomail.com> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: H-COST - loose gowns+kirtles Date: Fri, 26 Feb 99 17:08:23 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id SAA12611 Status: O -Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" > Somehow, I can't imagine that a person would wear something with so > much decoration such as that dress in "Patterns of Fashion" could > possibly be only for home wear... Surely women wore stuff like that > exactly because not everyone had the "perfect" figure? This is kind of my thought as well, but I also wondered if maybe these portraits were the period version of "boudoir photography".... > I'm hoping to copy that gown sometime, too! It's definitely on my list.....sigh...... Liadain _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 20:49:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA13247 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 20:49:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA02166; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 19:03:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA08108 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:53:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA08095 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:53:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from home (pool031-max3.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.230.131]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA06314 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:53:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:59:50 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE61B1.CE1F0E40.mhull@earthlink.net> From: Hulett To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: H-COST - loose gowns+kirtles Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:59:25 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 40 TEXT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hulett Loose Gowns, "The term 'night-gown' was probably first given to a loose, comfortable gown worn in the bedchamber early in the sixteenth century. AT this time it was frequently made of woolen or worsted fabrics, sometimes with a hood. After Henry VIII came to the throne, night-gowns were made in richer fabrics--satin, velvet, and taffeta timmed with gold and silver lace-- and lined with shag, plush, and fur. While doubtless still used in the bedchamber, night-gowns were later worn during the day as well, probably as a kind of loose coat for extra warmth. Count Egmont wore a red damask night robe at his execution in 1568, while Lady Anne Clifford recorded in her diary on 28 December 1617 "I went to church in my rich night gown." The Queen may have favoured night-gowns for informal wear during the day among her women; quite a number, entered as 'loose gowns' are listed in the Stowe and Folger inventories." Page 139, Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked. Janet Arnold. cheers, jd -----Original Message----- From: Frank&Tracy Thallas JR [SMTP:hardcorps@vcn.com] Sent: Friday, February 26, 1999 3:32 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: H-COST - loose gowns+kirtles -Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Greetings! I have what I hope is a quick question - would loose gown/kirtle combos (like those seen in "Patterns of Fashion") be suitable for wear outside the lady's house, or were these strictly indoor garments? They look very comfortable for us full figured girls...... All Health! Liadain _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 20:56:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA13272 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 20:56:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA03078; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 19:11:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA08795 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 19:01:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA08785 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 19:01:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.58.98 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:00:42 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: A Leine, the correct way Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 21:02:44 -0500 Message-ID: <000701be61f5$b8b7fd20$da1fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <6BAA9E7DB36AD2118FA60060943F1CAF1466EA@oar-xch1.oar.uiuc.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" See H. F. McClintock's Old Irish Dress, circa 1950, Dundalgan Press, Ireland. You may have to ILL it, but an awful lot of the book coversthe development of the changing lines of the leine. The leine evolved, and it was different things at different times, starting out perhaps as like a Greek peplos and chiton a Roman sagum and tunica. For the tunica style leine, use a 6-wide width of fabric, double your shoulder height, with a head hole in the middle and belted at the waist, nothing more. It bunches up the fabric on the upper arms, but the pleats occur under the criss (belt) at the waist. Then came the wrap front, shawl-collar version, shorter, about year 1100, the tunica brevis, sometimes with a hood, and then around the year 1500, the bag-sleeve. These dates are approximations taken from surviving artwork. There are no cutting diagrams in McClintock, but the period writings, engravings, statues, and watercolors are there, along with written descriptions of the cutting methods. I've summarized him very glibly and simplistically, here. Do find the book---there's far too much there to repeat in a forum like this. The tunica style has pleats horizontally across the arms and shoulders as seen in surviving sculpture, while the pleats run vertically on the bag style sleeves, only gathered at the bottom and at the armscythe. Many of the drawings show no gathering at all over the shoulder and down the arm, and they appear to be less voluminous versions of the tunica. By the way, Irish monks when writing in Latin, translate "leine" as "tunica." When there were pleats going horizontally across the arm and shoulder, were they sewn down? Maybe, but in many cases clearly not. Period writings McClintock quotes about embroidery on leines are enchanting, but there is less visual evidence to show us pictures to go with those words. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Abbott, Ruth Sent: Friday, February 26, 1999 1:15 PM To: 'h-costume@indra.com' Subject: H-COST: A Leine, the correct way -Poster: "Abbott, Ruth" Ok, I am firmly convinced that the "SCA usual" way to make a leine is just plain incorrect. Will someone (MaggiRos, perhap?) please tell us all the right way to make a leine? I have mulled this over for a while and re-examined the evidence I have, and I still come up with the idea that (at it's most voluminous) a leine had pleats along the shoulders and down the arm. Sewn in pleats, I'm thinking, but still pleats. So, how would you (anyone that has more complete ideas on this) go about making one? Alix ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 21:40:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA13472 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 21:40:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA07581; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 19:54:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA12410 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 19:44:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA12398 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 19:44:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.177 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 18:44:00 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Figuring out elizabethan Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 21:30:52 -0500 Message-ID: <000801be61fb$c5daf7e0$da1fffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990225203829.009c7130@mail.interlog.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I am interested in tapes and narrow wares, so they catch my eye as I cruise past the references. I haven't yet read the Crowfoot series, but I'd bet money they are in there. Germans in early Pensylvania used tapes as I described, shown photoraphed several times in Gehret's Rural Pennsylvania Clothing. Her book starts with 1750, but the garments look an awful lot like those Breugel's peasants wore in the Elizabethan period. Hope H. Dunlap Pennsylvania Clothing. -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Danielle Nunn Sent: Thursday, February 25, 1999 8:38 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Figuring out elizabethan -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >>My understanding of the "waistband" used for >>a women's skirt/kirtle/petticoat is more of a bias type >>strip running along >>the top, anchoring the pleats. >More than likely this was not a bias cut strip of self >fabric, but a tape, woven on a little tape loom. Stronger, >no stretch, and less wasteful of material. Sometimes folded >over the top of the gathers and sometimes just used flat. >Hope H. Dunlap Actually, there is mention in Alcega of cutting the waistband out of the "cabbage" or scraps. However, I kind of had "bias" in my head because I've been using bias tape recently. :) It doesn't actually specify in which direction the band would be cut. Cheers, Danielle ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Feb 26 23:37:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA14123 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 23:37:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA23443; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 21:51:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id VAA21463 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 21:41:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id VAA21456 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 21:41:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip203-185.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.185]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA12280 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 23:41:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990226234829.00981230@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 23:48:29 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Figuring out elizabethan waistbands In-Reply-To: <001101be6140$f6657cc0$dc46cfcf@gia-g> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Then there's the Main Notes #33, which I included in my original post: >"Manteo: A semi circular intermediate skirt, also called a faldellin. It had >a waistband and was sometimes reversible, open in front or worn inside out >(de vuelta). It was worn over the basic undergarment, the shift, and under >the outer skirt (vasquina), kirtle, or 'saya', petticoat or skirt with >bodice..." The "Manteo" sounds basically to be a petticoat which was one of the ways a "skirt" was worn by itself occasionally. However, from an English perspective there are also references in wardrobe accounts of "petticoat bodies". >This book is written (or so it says on the cover) 1589. So I get the idea >that maybe waistbands were used at least at this point in time. I can accept the fact that some type of waistband was worn at this point (Alcega says so). But, it is extremely frustrating that there are no extant women's garments (that I've heard of) from this period which employ waistbands. There don't appear to be any contemporary depictions or written accounts of them being used in women's clothing of the time. Especially, in England. Am I missing something or is it just not out there? However, I'm not convinced that the waistband Alcega mentions, resembles in any way our modern style of waistband. Also, note that waistbands only appear to be mentioned with skirts where there is no bodice included in the pattern. >Would it make a difference that the layout book is "Spanish"? I think there >are a few mentions in QEWU about QE wanting to find a french tailor, and a >few mentions of things cut in the 'spanish', 'french' etc. manner. It's hard to say. At this point there was an awful lot of fashion swapping. I've read the references and what Arnold had to say about it. Basically, she doesn't appear to be sure what exactly defined some of these different styles. Mind you, most of the references I've seen to "Spanish" either refer to the Spanish round sleeve, the doublet gown with the round sleeves, or a Ropa or loose gown. Which reminds me, has anyone ever noticed a picture of an ENGLISH lady wearing those large triangular Spanish sleeves? It occurs to me that, that is one fashion that didn't really make it North. Just my thoughts... Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 27 02:45:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA06478 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 02:45:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA07596; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:58:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA03179 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:48:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA03174 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:48:33 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id NXPAa04297 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 02:47:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <287359d5.36d7a325@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 02:47:49 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Russian costume Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 2/26/99 9:07:57 AM Pacific Standard Time, drickman@state.de.us writes: > > > I am looking for someone[s] who knows Russian folk costume. Best of all > would > be someone who speaks and/or reads Russian, because I am trying to find out > the meaning of certain terms for articles of clothing. This is in connection > > with the Fort Ross Apparel Project. Thanks. The woman who sits next to me at work IS natively russian. If you send me the copy, I'll see what I can do. For most efficient service, address it to me at secaram@mainsaver.com MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 27 02:50:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA06497 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 02:50:29 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA08427; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:05:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA03465 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:55:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA03459 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:55:01 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 9OOUa04336 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 02:54:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8eee3592.36d7a4b7@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 02:54:31 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: A Leine, the correct way Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 2/26/99 10:09:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, r-abbott@oar- xch1.oar.uiuc.edu writes: > > Ok, I am firmly convinced that the "SCA usual" way to make a leine is > just plain incorrect. Will someone (MaggiRos, perhap?) please tell us > all the right way to make a leine? I have mulled this over for a while > and re-examined the evidence I have, and I still come up with the idea > that (at it's most voluminous) a leine had pleats along the shoulders > and down the arm. Sewn in pleats, I'm thinking, but still pleats. So, > how would you (anyone that has more complete ideas on this) go about > making one? Well now I'm intrigued. I was under the impression that SCA usual *was* with a top-pleated sleeve, which I am here to testify is not documentable before 1979. Feel free to email me off-list to thrash it out :) For a faster response, use my "working" screen name: NOVL Thorn@aol.com. Let's talk! MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 27 02:54:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA06513 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 02:54:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA08713; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:09:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA03631 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:58:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA03626 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:58:53 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 3UVHa04305 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 02:58:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3d5b4da4.36d7a5a0@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 02:58:24 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Leine sleeves, yet again. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 2/26/99 11:27:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: > and is considering doing away with leines pleated along the top of the > arm. If this happens, and other people copy them, and other people copy > THEM, people all over the world might be wearing the correct style in > another 25 years. What a thought! It always seems like only the errors get perpetuted! We live in hope! MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 27 02:59:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA06533 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 02:59:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA08912; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:14:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA03832 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:04:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA03825 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:04:18 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id JPKAa00804 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:03:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:03:11 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 50's HELP! (fwd) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 2/26/99 11:33:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, 00217146@bigred.unl.edu writes: > > If in doubt, just watch Leave it to Beaver. > Hi Mom! I was just about to ask for a film or tv reference, and there it was. Oh yeah, I lived through the 50s, but well, I was born in 1950. I'm not sure my recollectons for those first 10 years or so count as primary documentation. What a cool breakdown of alternatives. Last year some time (or the year before) on this list, someone's sister wanted a 60s wedding, and asked for input. The variety of recollections--from hippy to Mods and Rockers to 60s? What 60s?-- was a lesson to us all in testamonial evidence! MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 27 03:05:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA12553 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:05:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA09104; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:20:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA04104 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:10:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA04096 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:10:24 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 8ODZa05309 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:09:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:09:14 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST - loose gowns+kirtles Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 2/26/99 1:30:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, hardcorps@vcn.com writes: > > I have what I hope is a quick question - would loose gown/kirtle combos > (like those seen in "Patterns of Fashion") be suitable for wear outside the > lady's house, or were these strictly indoor garments? They look very > comfortable > for us full figured girls...... Not knowing for sure which gowns you mean, I venture to say: Even those gowns are worn with a corset. When worn over a bra (which I've seen done) the bra always shows. Full figures, in the right corset, are both comfortable and correct. Make sure the corset is made for you, though. You personally. And made by someone who does corsets. Don't cut corners. If you want to look like an Elizabethan lady, wore what an Elizabethan lady wore. Nothing else produces the effect. Right, Margo? MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 27 03:12:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA12580 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:12:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA09526; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:27:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA04387 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:17:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA04380 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:17:38 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id WSDPa03472 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:17:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <63adbadc.36d7a9fc@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:17:00 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: H-COST - loose gowns+kirtles Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 2/26/99 3:06:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, hardcorps@vcn.com writes: > > This is kind of my thought as well, but I also wondered if maybe these > portraits > were the period version of "boudoir photography".... > Ther period version of boudoir photography include underwear. See the portrait of Elizabeth (Vernon) Countess to the 3rd Earl of Southampton, in her undress. A close or English gown is a perfectly ordinary gown for its time, in or out of Court. As someone just suggested, the degree of jewelling and ornament does not imply "at home" dress. Check out the portrait books: anything by Roy Strong, for a start. MaggiRos ~suppressing remarks about daughters in law _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 27 03:13:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA12587 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:13:43 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA09671; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:28:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA04419 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:18:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA04413 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:18:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from unknown (vcn32.pm3-3.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.240.151]) by sight.vcn.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A0498F5196; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:18:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Conversation with last message Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST - loose gowns+kirtles Date: Sat, 27 Feb 99 02:21:23 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id DAA12587 Status: O -Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" > > I have what I hope is a quick question - would loose gown/kirtle combos > > (like those seen in "Patterns of Fashion") be suitable for wear outside the > > lady's house, or were these strictly indoor garments? They look very > > comfortable > > for us full figured girls...... > > > Not knowing for sure which gowns you mean, I venture to say: Even those gowns > are worn with a corset. When worn over a bra (which I've seen done) the bra > always shows. Full figures, in the right corset, are both comfortable and > correct. Make sure the corset is made for you, though. You personally. And > made by someone who does corsets. > > Don't cut corners. If you want to look like an Elizabethan lady, wore what an > Elizabethan lady wore. Nothing else produces the effect. But of course... Actually, I like my "pair of bodies" MUCH better than a bra. I was referring in particular to the (I've misplaced the book, darn it) loose gown with the short poofy sleeves worn over the yellow silk kirtle - the lines of this outfit are simple and elegant, I think.... Liadain _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 27 03:15:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA12597 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:15:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA09828; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:30:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA04521 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:20:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA04509 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:20:15 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id RVOTa05514 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:19:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1f8f1026.36d7aaa1@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:19:45 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: A Leine, the correct way Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 2/26/99 6:02:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, hhdunlap@email.msn.com writes: > When there were pleats going horizontally across > the arm and shoulder, were they sewn down? Maybe, but in > many cases clearly not. Trust me. If they weren't sewn down, the fabric would slip down the gathering threads and puddle at the wrist. Bad idea. Been there. I ain't buyin' it. M.-R. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 27 03:27:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA12673 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:27:45 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA10667; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:42:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA05254 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:32:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA05247 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 01:32:24 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 8NDEa04796 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:31:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 03:31:20 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Figuring out elizabethan waistbands Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 2/26/99 8:42:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, dnunn@interlog.com writes: > Which reminds me, has anyone ever > noticed a picture of an ENGLISH lady wearing those large triangular Spanish > sleeves? Ignoring the whole rest of a very sensible letter... Yes. Lettice Knollys, Countess of Leicester, in that very flashy golden gown with double sleeves? Those are Spanish round sleeves, I am quite sure. The English really had no style of their own (unless you count the close gown, never mind the gable headdress) so from at least the 1560s onward, any English lady can be identified as dressed in Italian, French, or Spanish style. There's plenty of evidence for ladies (including the queen) requesting patterns and mockups (fashion dolls) of the current fashions from the stylish corners of Europe. Just my small change MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 27 10:44:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA14289 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 10:44:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA02715; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 09:00:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA01324 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 08:49:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA01319 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 08:49:25 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip238.van19.pacifier.com [216.65.141.238]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA12739 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:49:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902271549.HAA12739@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 07:49:52 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Figuring out elizabethan waistbands Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19990226234829.00981230@mail.interlog.com> References: <001101be6140$f6657cc0$dc46cfcf@gia-g> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > I can accept the fact that some type of waistband was worn at this point > (Alcega says so). But, it is extremely frustrating that there are no > extant women's garments (that I've heard of) from this period which employ > waistbands. There don't appear to be any contemporary depictions or > written accounts of them being used in women's clothing of the time. > Especially, in England. Am I missing something or is it just not out there? I think that one of the frustrations is that there isn't much in the way of extant women's garments from the time period, period. And if they did, they (as in the case of the one in Janet Arnold) they may not be the original, even if it was there in the first place. If a waistband were to be on a garment from the time period, you might not see it anyway. It would be hidden by picadills or by a gown over the waistband of the "petticoat". The lower edge of the bodice might cover it, even if it didn't have tabs or picadill (being laced on or hooked on.) A friend of mine wears all her dresses bodice and skirt. You'd never know it to look at her because her bodices are securely hooked to the skirt in such a way that the waistband is just not seen. > However, I'm not convinced that the waistband Alcega mentions, resembles in > any way our modern style of waistband. Also, note that waistbands only > appear to be mentioned with skirts where there is no bodice included in the > pattern. Yes, but in the same skirts, he doesn't always mention the waistband. Alcega assumes that you know a lot. He doesn't always put critical information in with each version of the same thing. (As an example, on the Mourning gown, it has to have a false back to work. However, he only mentions it in one of the descriptions (but *not* the first one) (and doesn't give any pattern for it.) He doesn't always even put descriptions for other things that he assumes you know will be cut out of the cabbage (such as picadills, the collar, etc.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 27 11:20:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA14417 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:20:12 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA06085; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 09:35:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA04383 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 09:24:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA04345 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 09:24:36 -0700 (MST) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id D4GRXQBC; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:24:20 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 09:29:55 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST - loose gowns+kirtles Message-ID: <19990227.101110.4870.27.seamstrix@juno.com> References: Conversation <199902261919.LAA09470@zeus.directcon.net> with last message <199902261919.LAA09470@zeus.directcon.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 6-13,15-38 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com They seem to have been perfectly acceptable as outdorr wear, many women were painted wearing them and there are many listed in Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe. I made one for a large sized lady at Bristol RenFaire last summer and it worked out very well for her, it was comfortable and was very flattering as it accentuated her height not her width. Just remember that you need to wear all the regular undergarments, just leave off the bumroll. Karen On Fri, 26 Feb 99 15:32:11 PST "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" writes: > >-Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" > > Greetings! > > I have what I hope is a quick question - would loose gown/kirtle >combos >(like those seen in "Patterns of Fashion") be suitable for wear >outside = >the >lady's house, or were these strictly indoor garments? They look very >com= >fortable >for us full figured girls...... > >All Health! > Liadain > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 27 11:28:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA14446 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:28:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA07164; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 09:43:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA04977 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 09:32:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA04965 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 09:32:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip132.an1-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.12.132]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA04795 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 08:32:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36D810FC.6E12E874@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:36:31 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Fashion In the Age of the Black Prince Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson Dear List, Does anybody out there know if Stella Mary Newton's "Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince" is available for purchase? I've tried some of the standard bookfinder searches and gotten nowhere. Thanks, Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 27 13:03:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA14757 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:03:04 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA16023; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:18:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA12534 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:07:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA12526 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:07:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.20.70 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 10:07:00 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: A Leine, multiplicity of ways Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:10:39 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be627c$b5ba3a20$1917ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <1f8f1026.36d7aaa1@aol.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Have you read McClintock closely and studied the illustrations? There is not just ONE correct way to sew an Irish leine. McClintock describes many variations of the Irish Leine, 8 of which I'll describe here (numbered). I would agree that some of the sculptures show horizontal pleats that must have been anchored in some way to way to stay in the position they were in, but many of the pictures show other arrangements of pleats, gathers, no pleats, and here goes: (1) tunica style garments where the fabric width was just wide enough (and no more) to span the shoulders and arms to the wrists, so that it couldn't puddle (like the "English print of Irish men," dating *perhaps* from the time of Henry VIII in the Ashmolean Museum, opposite page 30). (2)The Pre-Norman engaged sculptures from the Shrine of St. Moedoc, opposite page 11 in McClintock show an arrangement of pleats which might have been sewn in on both the upper and lower layers of clothing, more like the regular, continuously stitched welts on the Shinrone Gown than pleats. (3) The poor Irish people shown in Durer's drawing of 1521 have on leines made out of absolutely minimal amount of materials, with no pleats or gathers whatsoever. (4) There's another German drawing 1529-1532 of an Irish woman showing her leine pleated and sewn into a neckband of self material. (5) In the 1545 de Here watercolor of "The Irish People in the Time of King Henry VIII," there are no stitched in welts or pleats in the men's and boy's leines, which have flowing bag sleeves to the ankles. The arms stick out though hole in the upper front part of the sleeves, and the bottom 2 or 3 feet of the sleeves are vestigial, good only for pockets. There's some evidence that this might have been unique to the Limerick area. (6) Derrick's poem of 1581 mentions the leine of the Karne (soldier) as short, not reaching past the knee, "with pleats on pleats thei pleated are as thick as pleats may lie. Whose sleves hang trailing doune almost unto the Shoe:" He also mentions that they are strange. Does that mean they are unique to soldiers, and that people in other walks of life wear something else? Maybe, because (7) illustrations in the same book (Derrick's 1581), which accompany that poem show a farmer and his wife being burned out of their home, and their sleeves are not as voluminous nor as anywhere near as long as those of the soldiers. (8) Another writing ot the same time, but referring to an earlier time mentions a multiplicity of "gathers and wrinkles." No mention of pleats. There is so much variation to the theme of the Irish leine, depending on period, location, class, economic means, activity, and sex of the wearer even in a single century, that try to establish ONE correct way to sew a leine misses the whole point. You can certainly devise a leine which is arguably appropriate for a single persona, but not for an entire nation over a millennium. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of MaggiRos@aol.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 1999 3:20 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: A Leine, the correct way -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 2/26/99 6:02:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, hhdunlap@email.msn.com writes: > When there were pleats going horizontally across > the arm and shoulder, were they sewn down? Maybe, but in > many cases clearly not. Trust me. If they weren't sewn down, the fabric would slip down the gathering threads and puddle at the wrist. Bad idea. Been there. I ain't buyin' it. M.-R. ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 27 13:40:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA14908 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:40:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA20190; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:56:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA16100 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:45:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com [207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA16091 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:45:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.31.249 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 10:45:08 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Three 50's Ideas for a Boy Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:49:05 -0500 Message-ID: <000401be6282$0a8c7400$1917ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Another nifty 50's look which appeals to boys today is the "Beatnik" look. Tight black cotton or wool long sleeved turtleneck, tight black chinos, sandals, squarish, black-framed sunglasses, greased, slicked back hair. Accessorize it with an unfiltered Galois, Camel, or Luck Strike cigarette hanging off his lip and a copy of Jack Kerouac's book, "On the Road" in his hip pocket. See Frank Sinatra in the movie "High Society" the lean, elegant, bad-boy, heart throb for another great period look. Black tight suit, white shirt with narrow collar, extremely narrow black tie, greased slicked back dark hair, black Italian leather shoes, and the unfiltered cigarette, of course. *West Side Story,* Leonard Bernstein's great American Opera, is a great source of very tough urban teen gang 1950's costume which may appeal. Similar to the above, but with the cigarette pack rolled up in the sleeve of his white, black, or gray tee-shirt. Both sleeves are rolled up tightly to the armscythe, but the cigarette pack goes in the roll on one shoulder. Accessorize with a switchblade (get the kind from the joke shops where the plastic blade disappears into the handle when someone is stabbed) and add a beat-up galvanized garbage can lid he can use as a shield. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of MaggiRos@aol.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 1999 3:03 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 50's HELP! (fwd) -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 2/26/99 11:33:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, 00217146@bigred.unl.edu writes: > > If in doubt, just watch Leave it to Beaver. > Hi Mom! I was just about to ask for a film or tv reference, and there it was. Oh yeah, I lived through the 50s, but well, I was born in 1950. I'm not sure my recollectons for those first 10 years or so count as primary documentation. What a cool breakdown of alternatives. Last year some time (or the year before) on this list, someone's sister wanted a 60s wedding, and asked for input. The variety of recollections--from hippy to Mods and Rockers to 60s? What 60s?-- was a lesson to us all in testamonial evidence! MaggiRos ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 27 14:02:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14985 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:02:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA22326; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:18:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA17797 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:07:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA17782 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:07:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from andrea (209-122-214-109.s363.tnt3.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.214.109]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id OAA22450 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:07:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000c01be629e$046909a0$6dd67ad1@gideon> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: H-COST - loose gowns+kirtles Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:10:33 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" ----- Original Message ----- From: Frank&Tracy Thallas JR To: Sent: Friday, February 26, 1999 5:08 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: H-COST - loose gowns+kirtles -Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" > Somehow, I can't imagine that a person would wear something with so > much decoration such as that dress in "Patterns of Fashion" could > possibly be only for home wear... Surely women wore stuff like that > exactly because not everyone had the "perfect" figure? I've made this gown for maternity wear, very comfortable. Perhaps this was the main function of this style. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 27 14:47:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA15226 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:47:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA26988; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:02:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id MAA21321 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:52:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA21309 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from unknown (vcn15.pm3-5.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.241.106]) by sight.vcn.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 97C9EF5199; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:52:10 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19990227.101110.4870.27.seamstrix@juno.com> References: Conversation <199902261919.LAA09470@zeus.directcon.net> with last message <19990227.101110.4870.27.seamstrix@juno.com> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Subject: H-COST: Re: H-COST - loose gowns+kirtles Date: Sat, 27 Feb 99 13:54:20 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id OAA15226 Status: O -Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Many thanks to all who responded! I had thought that such outfits would be acceptable, but wanted to be sure before embarking on the Great Fabric Hunt - and now to hunt up more pictures to choose the exact style! BTW, does anyone know of a book/Web resource with a large reproduction of "Queen Elizabeth and the Three Goddesses"? Liadain > They seem to have been perfectly acceptable as outdorr wear, many women > were painted wearing them and there are many listed in Queen Elizabeth's > Wardrobe. I made one for a large sized lady at Bristol RenFaire last > summer and it worked out very well for her, it was comfortable and was > very flattering as it accentuated her height not her width. Just remember > that you need to wear all the regular undergarments, just leave off the > bumroll. > > Karen > > > > > > On Fri, 26 Feb 99 15:32:11 PST "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" > writes: > > > >-Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" > > > > Greetings! > > > > I have what I hope is a quick question - would loose gown/kirtle > >combos > >(like those seen in "Patterns of Fashion") be suitable for wear > >outside = > >the > >lady's house, or were these strictly indoor garments? They look very > >com= > >fortable > >for us full figured girls...... > > > >All Health! > > Liadain > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 27 16:53:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA15695 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 16:53:47 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA11502; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 15:08:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA01595 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:57:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA01578 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:57:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [207.167.66.61] (sdts10-11.znet.net [207.167.66.11]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id NAA12488 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:58:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:58:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST - loose gowns+kirtles Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com > >In a message dated 2/26/99 1:30:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, hardcorps@vcn.com >writes: > >> >> I have what I hope is a quick question - would loose gown/kirtle combos >> (like those seen in "Patterns of Fashion") be suitable for wear outside the >> lady's house, or were these strictly indoor garments? They look very >> comfortable >> for us full figured girls...... > > >Not knowing for sure which gowns you mean, I venture to say: Even those gowns >are worn with a corset. When worn over a bra (which I've seen done) the bra >always shows. Full figures, in the right corset, are both comfortable and >correct. Make sure the corset is made for you, though. You personally. And >made by someone who does corsets. Before I was pregnant I would have said the same, but now I am of different mind. For a number of women, any pressure against your stomach and breasts is terribly uncomfortable, even painful. I even find corsets and even bras really uncomfortable while nursing too. After viewing loads and loads of German art, I don't believe that corsetry was a 100% common thing. IMHO, most middle class and lower people were held up by their bodice if anything, so the concept of even a well to do pregnant or nursing woman going without is not scandalous. Not that it could not be worn with a corset, IMHO, it would more likely have been a personal preference issue. Some of the German matrons I would say are not wearing corsets because they have the wrong lines (having a rather dropped breast sillouette). There are two type of loose gowns evident from pictures. The one I see most recreated is seen in many court paintings of matrons and in Pattersn of fashion. I've also heard people call it a "tudor surcoat". There is another style which can be seen in ashelford in drawings and several effigies, and can be found in other scenic paintings of the period which is more like a very full bathrobe with wide lapels. It wraps over in the front and is usually worn with a sash. It seems more common to middle class women and lower nobility. More than a house dress, it is often shown being worn out of doors. Neither gown seems to be worn with hoops as I've seen at renn. faires. I've made a few and I LOVE them. They are extremely comfortable. They are much easier to chase kids in that a tight gown, not counting that I can throw one over *anything* and no one knows the better. At the SCA Estrella war I was out in the evening with long johns, sweat pants and shirt, a linen kirtle, and my loose gown and was quite comfy. (I was also wearing 3 pr socks and a full head cap with hat on top.) I will probably be wearing them more often at events because now that I am over 40 and a mother of two, it seems to me that in period I would have been wearing more "matronly" fashions anyway. I guess I don't care if I look like a ship about to take sail anymore. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 27 21:16:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA22732 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:16:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA16381; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:31:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA21776 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:20:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.niagara.com (mail.niagara.com [209.5.56.12]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA21770 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:20:47 -0700 (MST) From: kathleen@niagara.com Received: from Kathleen (isdn-118.niagara.com [209.5.58.118]) by mail.niagara.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA21575 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:20:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:20:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902280220.VAA21575@mail.niagara.com> X-Sender: kathleen@mail.niagara.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Tartan in VA Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kathleen@niagara.com I was wondering if you can help me... I've convinced a friend of mine to come to his first event (a war in August) and also convinced him that a great kilt would be the most practical garb for him. (Plus it will look sensational...he's a big guy) He'll take care of getting the tartan, and I'll provide the shirts, etc. First...how wide will the fabric have to be for someone about 6'5" to 6'6"? Second...can anyone let me know the best places to find good deals on suitable fabric in his area? He lives in VA near Washington. I don't particularly care about the sect, as long as it isn't something truly obvious like Royal Stewart. Blues and heathery tones would look great with his colouring, but again...not that picky. Third...any ideas on footwear? He loves to go barefoot, but if it rains... Fourth...accessories. I figure a plaid pin, a belt, dagger, a version of a sporran for practical reasons, maybe a bonnet if he'll wear one...anything else? I really appreciate this, thanks! Kathleen (Catriona) () _/)(\_ "Tehee!" quod she, and clapte the wyndow to /~~\ /____\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 27 21:16:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA22736 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:16:38 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id TAA16448; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:32:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id TAA21825 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:21:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from edtnps05.telusplanet.net (edtnps05.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.105]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id TAA21811 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:21:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from clgrtnt4-port-95.agt.net ([161.184.49.95]:1026 "HELO Freya") by edtnps05.telusplanet.net with SMTP id <779680-12324>; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:21:13 -0700 X-Sender: agottfre@mail.telusplanet.net (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: H-COST: European fashion, 1890-1938 (exhibit) X-Mailer: Message-Id: <19990228022118Z779680-12324+30@edtnps05.telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:21:13 -0700 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) The information below is summarized from articles in _Elm Street_ magazine and the _Toronto Globe & Mail_; I haven't been to the exhibit (don't live near Vancouver, and it's not my interest area), so there's no information I can add, but I thought that list members might be interested. There is a chance that this exhibit may tour; Berlin, Vienna, Toronto, & New York are mentioned as potential destinations. Jewish designers and manufacturers were influential in the pre-WWII European fashion world. Knize, of Vienna, is one of the best-known labels; they made suits for Marlene Dietrich. With the rise of Nazism, the Jewish clothing industry was targeted; clothing began to be labelled as being made by members of the Association of German Aryan Clothing Manufacturers. A new exhibit shows 40 costumes dating to 1890-1938 from the collection of Claus Jahnke, the show's curator. Due to a lack of previous research in this area, Jahnke found dating the clothing a challenge; he says that a detailed knowledge of the history and development of zippers was very useful. "Broken Threads--From Aryanization to Cultural Loss : The Destruction of the Jewish Fashion Industry in Germany and Austria" is on display at the Vancouver Holocaust Education Centre until May 15. There is an "accompanying publication" (don't know if it's a catalog or not) available. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Feb 27 21:59:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA22916 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:59:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA21443; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 20:15:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA24890 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 20:03:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from photon.soltec.net (photon.soltec.net [206.148.208.27]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA24876 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 20:03:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from [206.148.209.8] (ppp8.cu.soltec.net [206.148.209.8]) by photon.soltec.net (8.8.8/8.8.9) with ESMTP id VAA06151 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:04:01 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199902280304.VAA06151@photon.soltec.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:02:43 -0600 Subject: Re: H-COST: Tartan in VA From: "Susan Krakower" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Krakower" I would suggest that you check G-Street Fabrics for tartan, they usually have a very nice wool selection. And this time of year you will probably find a number of them on sale. I would suggest that you get a tartan that is 56 to 60 inches wide, then depending on the build of the man, get 3 to 4 yards, which I would think to be quite sufficient for most men. Remember fabric can always be cut away, but not so easily added on. Good Luck!! Susan ---------- >From: kathleen@niagara.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: H-COST: Tartan in VA >Date: Sat, Feb 27, 1999, 8:20 PM > > >-Poster: kathleen@niagara.com > > >I was wondering if you can help me... > >I've convinced a friend of mine to come to his first event (a war in August) >and also convinced him that a great kilt would be the most practical garb >for him. (Plus it will look sensational...he's a big guy) He'll take care >of getting the tartan, and I'll provide the shirts, etc. > >First...how wide will the fabric have to be for someone about 6'5" to 6'6"? > >Second...can anyone let me know the best places to find good deals on >suitable fabric in his area? He lives in VA near Washington. I don't >particularly care about the sect, as long as it isn't something truly >obvious like Royal Stewart. Blues and heathery tones would look great with >his colouring, but again...not that picky. > >Third...any ideas on footwear? He loves to go barefoot, but if it rains... > >Fourth...accessories. I figure a plaid pin, a belt, dagger, a version of a >sporran for practical reasons, maybe a bonnet if he'll wear one...anything else? > > >I really appreciate this, thanks! > >Kathleen (Catriona) > > > () > _/)(\_ >"Tehee!" quod she, and clapte the wyndow to /~~\ > /____\ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 03:34:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA22038 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 03:34:32 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id BAA02327; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 01:49:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id BAA14963 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 01:37:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id BAA14955 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 01:37:53 -0700 (MST) From: MaggiRos@aol.com Received: from MaggiRos@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id 6SCFa11674 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 03:37:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 03:37:08 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: A Leine, multiplicity of ways Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 2/27/99 10:07:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, hhdunlap@email.msn.com writes: > arne > (soldier) as short, not reaching past the knee, "with pleats > on pleats thei pleated are as thick as pleats may lie. > Whose sleves hang trailing doune almost unto the Shoe:" He > also mentions that they are strange. Does that mean they > are unique to soldiers, and that people in other walks of > life wear something else? Maybe, because > > (7) illustrations in the same book (Derrick's 1581), which > accompany that poem show a farmer and his wife being burned > out of their home, and their sleeves are not as voluminous > nor as anywhere near as long as those of the soldiers. > Someone must point out that Derrick never went to Ireland himself, so we have to be careful. MaggiRos _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 09:14:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA23234 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:14:41 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA19078; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:30:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA29682 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:19:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA29676 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:18:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from andrea (209-122-214-34.s288.tnt3.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.214.34]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id JAA18751; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:19:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000501be633e$f6ae68e0$22d67ad1@gideon> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: "H-Costume" , "nursing list" Subject: H-COST: OT:dressform Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:22:47 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" Does anyone know where I can buy a "Uniquely You" dressform? They don't seem to be availible in fabric stores. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 09:19:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA23253 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:19:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA19321; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:35:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA29930 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:23:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA29924 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 07:23:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from andrea (209-122-214-34.s288.tnt3.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.214.34]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id JAA21046 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:24:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001401be633f$a50af200$22d67ad1@gideon> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST - loose gowns+kirtles Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:27:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" I even find corsets and even bras >really uncomfortable while nursing too. Just out of curiousity, what did you wear while nursing? I'm due with my first in May and I'm tired of wearing my kirtle and loose gown to every event. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 11:17:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA23686 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:17:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA05078; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:33:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA08085 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:21:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.rdc1.md.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.md.home.com [24.2.2.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA08079 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:21:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc429928-a.hwrd1.md.home.com ([24.3.63.99]) by mail.rdc1.md.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with SMTP id <19990228162206.HMDX23131.mail.rdc1.md.home.com@cc429928-a.hwrd1.md.home.com> for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:22:06 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.3.16.19990228112103.361fb846@connext.net> X-Sender: micki@connext.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (16) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:21:03 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Michel McCabe Subject: Re: H-COST: Tartan in VA In-Reply-To: <199902280220.VAA21575@mail.niagara.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Michel McCabe >Second...can anyone let me know the best places to find good deals on >suitable fabric in his area? He lives in VA near Washington. I don't G-Street - they are in DC & also Rockville MD (Rockville is not far from the Beltway _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 11:33:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA23739 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:33:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA07425; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:49:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA09430 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:37:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA09424 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:37:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from 168.191.22.34 (sdn-ar-001dcwashP296.dialsprint.net [168.191.22.34]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA13831 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:37:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36D92EC4.37B28496@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:56:32 +0000 From: margo king X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: 50's Help X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <3.0.3.16.19990228112103.361fb846@connext.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: margo king Many thanks for your wonderful suggestions. I am off to search through the closets! margo king _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 11:40:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA23765 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:40:37 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA08573; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:55:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA10015 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:43:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA10007 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:43:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from 168.191.22.34 (sdn-ar-001dcwashP296.dialsprint.net [168.191.22.34]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA18880 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:44:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36D93046.5BDA0C0B@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:03:02 +0000 From: margo king X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Tiered Skirt X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <3.0.3.16.19990228112103.361fb846@connext.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: margo king In my never-ending search to find Victorian clothing (affordable *G*) I was looking at the Reflections of the Past website. They have a dress circa 1857-1862 that is 3 tiered. From the description it looks like each tier was a separate skirt (news to me). You might want totake a look: www.victoriana.com/antiques/index.html Margo King _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 12:16:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA23905 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:16:50 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA13600; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:33:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA13575 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:21:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id KAA13564 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:21:08 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:21:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 10631 invoked from network); 28 Feb 1999 17:16:40 -0000 Received: from 16.240.3-5.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.183.240.16) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 1999 17:16:40 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990228092132.2acf6b0c@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: OT:dressform Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 09:22 AM 02/28/1999 -0800, Andrea Gideon wrote: > >-Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > >Does anyone know where I can buy a "Uniquely You" dressform? They don't >seem to be availible in fabric stores. >Andrea There are usually ads for "Uniquely You" in Threads and Sew News magazines. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 12:26:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA23939 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:26:02 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA15297; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:42:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA14481 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:30:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA14473 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:30:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p39.directcon.net [206.170.184.88]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA28946 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:23:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:23:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902281723.JAA28946@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST - loose gowns+kirtles Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 09:29 AM 2/27/99 -0600, you wrote: > >-Poster: seamstrix@juno.com > >They seem to have been perfectly acceptable as outdorr wear, many women >were painted wearing them and there are many listed in Queen Elizabeth's >Wardrobe. I made one for a large sized lady at Bristol RenFaire last >summer and it worked out very well for her, it was comfortable and was >very flattering as it accentuated her height not her width. Just remember >that you need to wear all the regular undergarments, But keep the hoops fairly small, otherwise you'll resemble the remark of a friend of mine: "You mean that dress that looks like you're wearing a teepee with your head sticking out the top?" I've never been able to bring myself to wear one since... Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 12:29:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA23949 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:29:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA15881; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:45:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA14756 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:33:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA14736 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:33:19 -0700 (MST) From: ArcadiaCB@aol.com Received: from ArcadiaCB@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id TDPNa04329 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:32:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3d5f7681.36d97d9d@aol.com> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:32:13 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: OT:dressform Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ArcadiaCB@aol.com Hi Andrea, Amazing what we packrats save. I bought my "uniquely you" form in 1991, just so the bosom would move correctly when you put stays or a corset on it to do reproduction clothes. I got mine from a small couture fabric shop, not a chain store. If you live near the DC area, I think I have seen them at G Street. But I saved the info that came with it. Presuming they are still in the same place, the letterhead info at that time was Uniquely You 112-C Edwardia Drive Greensboro North Carolina 27409 (919) 854-0000 1-800-334-0524 Since you order them by a general height and body build size, it would have to be ordered, then shipped to the the store anyway, so probably just as easy to order direct if possible. The letter that came with the form even says that if parts are missing or you need a replacement part, to order direct. Hope this helps. Charlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 12:54:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA24088 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:54:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA19256; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:11:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA16793 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:59:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.rdc1.md.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.md.home.com [24.2.2.66]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA16786 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:59:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from cc429928-a.hwrd1.md.home.com ([24.3.63.99]) by mail.rdc1.md.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with SMTP id <19990228175946.HVQN23131.mail.rdc1.md.home.com@cc429928-a.hwrd1.md.home.com> for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:59:46 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.3.16.19990228125845.094f9fd8@connext.net> X-Sender: micki@connext.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (16) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:58:45 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Michel McCabe Subject: Re: H-COST: OT:dressform In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19990228092132.2acf6b0c@mail2.quiknet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Michel McCabe I am seriously considering the purchase of a Fabulous Fit dress form Does anyone have any opinions? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 13:32:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24247 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:32:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA24526; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:48:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA20481 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:36:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com [207.46.181.18]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA20415 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:36:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.180 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:36:12 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: 50's Help Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:38:17 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be6349$f5c45600$b417ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <36D92EC4.37B28496@earthlink.net> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Did you see the fabulous PBS special on singer Roy Orbison last night? "Cool" beyond belief then and eternally. He hit the big time in about 1960, when he was 31 years old I think, but his sunglasses were "a look" which was common a little earlier and spanned a number of years. Each thick black framed lens was a regular, symmetrical trapezoid, sides of the same length and angle, smaller on the bottom than on top. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of margo king Sent: Sunday, February 28, 1999 6:57 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: 50's Help -Poster: margo king Many thanks for your wonderful suggestions. I am off to search through the closets! margo king ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 13:32:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24248 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:32:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA24517; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:48:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA20410 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:36:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.30]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA20398 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:36:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from default - 208.255.23.180 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:36:04 -0800 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: A Leine, multiplicity of ways Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:28:15 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be6349$ee772260$b417ffd0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" That's right. The publishing industry was not centered in Ireland, so sketches and observations were brought back and engraved or woodcut by others skilled in those media for publication. Publishers were located in Dieppe, the Low Countries, Germany, and later, London. All the observations and sketches brought back by Explorers during the Age of Exploration (Derrick's period, 1500's) which were published were subjected to this process. Most of the explorers were charged by their funding authorities to bring back logs and sketches of everything they found. The published materials survived far more frequently than the original working logs and sketches. There wasn't the same economic reason for Ireland to get this degree of scrutiny, unfortunately, and what survives are accounts and images from travelers who recognized the economic value of publishing what they saw, but there was no Charter Company behind them demanding an intense illustration and reporting effort. Art historians use the botanicals of the Middle Ages to show the process of drawing and engraving from life versus drawing and engraving successive generations of prints from previous drawings. The further removed the artist is from life, the more stylized and lifeless the artwork becomes, and the more inaccuracies occur. It's sort of like the children's game of "gossip" where all the players are arranged in a row and a message is whispered down the line. At the end of the game, the final version of the message is compared with the original message. "Hilarity at the disparity" is the most common result, although sometimes (which is quite dull) the message comes through loud and clear. The general rule is that the more times something is replicated from the most recent secondary source, without reference back to the original source (life) the more inaccurate it is. In the Age of Exploration, there was little gain to the publishers from imposing one's their own cultural preconceptions on the incoming visual information. What sold was information about the outlandish, not the everyday. That's why things like the American crocodile ended up embroidered on one of Queen Elizabeth's gowns--it was so very strange, that it was mesmerizing. There was a whole publishing industry founded on showing the outlandish to the paying public. During the Age of Exploration (Derrick's period), there was a very high degree of accuracy in general regarding the images that returned from foreign places of flowers, animals, and aboriginals. In the case of the exploration of North America , there is enough information from various sources to suggest that there was a pretty high degree of accuracy in the published images. Interpretations of intangibles such as culture, religion, and life styles were bungled, but what they could see, they got right an awful lot of the time. I admit that our hypotheses hang on a slender thread where there are not corroborating artifacts and other information. But it does behoove us to get out there and see all of the original sources before generating an opinion. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of MaggiRos@aol.com Sent: Sunday, February 28, 1999 3:37 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: A Leine, multiplicity of ways -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 2/27/99 10:07:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, hhdunlap@email.msn.com writes: > arne > (soldier) as short, not reaching past the knee, "with pleats > on pleats thei pleated are as thick as pleats may lie. > Whose sleves hang trailing doune almost unto the Shoe:" He > also mentions that they are strange. Does that mean they > are unique to soldiers, and that people in other walks of > life wear something else? Maybe, because > > (7) illustrations in the same book (Derrick's 1581), which > accompany that poem show a farmer and his wife being burned > out of their home, and their sleeves are not as voluminous > nor as anywhere near as long as those of the soldiers. > Someone must point out that Derrick never went to Ireland himself, so we have to be careful. MaggiRos ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 13:32:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24258 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:32:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA24751; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:48:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id LAA20550 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:36:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id LAA20541 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:36:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p39.directcon.net [206.170.184.88]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA06132 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:29:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:29:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902281829.KAA06132@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: 1840's round dresses Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson Well, I went to Sutter's Fort yesterday, and bought David Rickman's excellent costume manual. This should be a great help to me in planning my "Wagon Train Costuming" classes. (although he's looking at the 1840's and I'm doing 50's.) Of course, I have questions. He states that the usual dress for emigrant women was the plain round dress, a dress with a fitted bodice, front opening, and round, not pointed, waistline, and says: "A corset or "stays" were never practical for the hard labor of these women's lives, nor do they seem to have worn them for best dress either. The typical round dress of this era was never as tightly fitting in the bodice as the corseted figure demanded, nor were they 'boned' .......Given the fact that most of these women as we have shown, did not own more than two or three dresses, and often used their work dress for best, corsets would have been a needless extravagance." While style and a fashionable sillouhette may not have been important to these women, I can't help but think that at least some of them must have worn something to provide support for their breasts. Not only were they working in these dresses, but on the emigrant trail, most of them were either walking or riding horses all day. As Rickman states, the bodices don't seem to have been tight enough to bind the breasts. He does mention waistcoats, sleeveless garments worn for warmth. I wonder if there might have been something similar, tight enough to support and or bind the breasts much as a modern sports bra works. Does anyone have any information on this? I don't want to have modern bra lines showing under my work dress, but even less do I want to bounce and sag along Main Street while trying to look respectable! Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 15:35:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24778 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:35:05 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA08839; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:51:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA17374 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:39:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA17359 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:39:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D4KSU7SR; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:38:09 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Dress form and now foot forms? Message-ID: <19980924.022444.5351.8.kayherb@juno.com> References: <000501be633e$f6ae68e0$22d67ad1@gideon> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,10-15 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:38:09 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" I see them advertised in the backs of magazines like "Threads." And to expand on your inquiry, does anyone know where I can get foot forms with the lower leg attached? I'm doing custom woolen hose (woven fabric) by mail (not necessarily an oxymoron) and I'd really like to have something more convenient than my own limbs to form them around. Too many marks from hits around the ankles from errant pins, and black stockings just won't make it for summer! Thanks! Kay kayherb@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 15:35:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24782 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:35:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA08909; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:51:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA17413 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:39:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA17407 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:39:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D4KSU74R; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:38:09 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Waterproofing Tents w/Thompson's Message-ID: <19980924.022444.5351.9.kayherb@juno.com> References: <199902020553.VAA24662@zeus.directcon.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,6-8,14-16,19-25,27-40 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:38:09 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" Carol, Sorry to be so long in replying to this question! It got lost in my inbox and I came across it whilst clearing out old messages. I checked with our local hardware store, who checked with Thompson's to be sure, and the answer is "no, it's not flammable once it's dry." Of course, it's petroleum distillates, so it's highly flammable while it's still wet. If you decide to use it, make sure you have plenty of time to leave the tent set up outside to dry (of course!). It has to dry thoroughly, and air out to get the oily odor gone. Our hardware store also told me that Scotchguard has a waterproofing fabric spray that's made for outside furniture, tents, etc. No one offered any opinions of its longevity compared to Thompson's. Kay kayherb@juno.com On Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:30:24 -0800 "Carol J. Bell Cannon" writes: > >-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > >At 07:46 AM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" > Next time >try Thompson's water seal. > Just one question for Kay or anyone else who happens to know--Is >Thompson's WS flameable? >Thanx! Carol J. Bell Cannon > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 15:40:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24812 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:40:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id NAA09727; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:57:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA17935 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:44:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA17930 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:44:49 -0700 (MST) From: Gerekr@aol.com Received: from Gerekr@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id 6YCSa02498 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:27:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1e1953b8.36d9a6c3@aol.com> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:27:47 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Re: H-C: King Alfonso's Book of Chess Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Claris Emailer v2.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gerekr@aol.com On 2/23/99 8:55 PM you wrote: >> A friend of mine interested in Spanish and Moorish clothing is curious to >> know whether _King Alfonso's Book of Chess_ has ever been printed, and if >> so, where and by whom. well, i know where to find copies of a number of the illustrations from the Book of Chess, and other Alphonso books (I checked OCLC once... he was the Danielle Steele of his age... there are dozens of titles! -- well, more like the Thos. Jefferson) ... off the top of my head, from the home library... IN _Chivalry_, by Michael Foss (1975), which may be available at the public library... pp 84/85 has a set of ten COLOR ill.s of musicians, including a moorish lutenist, esp., from the Cantigas de Sta Maria (which may also be by Alfonso?), and the 12th pic is from the Cantigas de Alfonso el Sabio (more musicians... The Sta Maria musicians may be men and women mixed... can't tell from figures, but there are definitely two hair lengths, and this was a pretty unisex period for costume... p. 70, Sta Maria, B&W male and female jongleur (definitely female headgear on the right figure) p. 100, from the Book of Chess - a fairly poor B&W copy of an illustration of two moorish ladies playing chess, with a female lutenist on the side.... the left-hand chess player is quite interesting as she is wearing a VERY sheer caftan-like robe, string tie at the neck, and good luck trying to figure out what she's wearing (or not) under it. you can see a small embroidered panel on one shoulder, similar to the ones on the male lutenist's shirt on p 84... She also has a nice ear-ring and patterned coif (?). and possibly henna-ed fingers? The right hand lady has a very nice sheer head-rail, but the rest of her outfit (and the lutenist) is "decently" 8-) opaque. IN Games of the world, which may be in the reference section at your public library, it is at mine - pictures of a number of games besides chess, from Alphonso books - p. 8, full page, full color - King and six nobles playing 7-sided backgammon; p. 39, Alquerque, 4 males, all wearing phrygian caps; two non-players with bows; p. 59 & 60, nine-mens-morris, 6 males in 2 ill.s, including two non-players carrying spears; p. 62, 63, chess - a full-page of a sheik and westerner playing in a tent; on the 2d page, 5 small ill.s that include, among others, the king and queen, a black player, a male wearing a sheer over-robe (and sword!), a western blond female with an incredible low neckline, and a moorish female with pant-legs showing; p. 134, 135 - dice, include lords of the court, and a sequence that includes fighting, knives and people who've gambled away their clothes (=> male underwear!) -- all male here; p. 143 appears to be another dice, is described as a scene in a "low life tavern" -- woo! there's a standing kissing couple beside the dice-players... and she appears to be picking his belt purse while distracting him??!? Hope this helps, good luck. If anyone does know of an easily available version with the illustrations, DO let us all know... I think when I did the OCLC search before, I puzzled out that there may be a German study of the vocabulary in the chess book (in German of course) -- which includes a complete copy of the chess book (one assumes with ill.s, cause it said it was illustrated; don't know why I didn't follow it up then... Chimene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 15:52:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24876 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:52:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11768; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:08:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA18895 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:56:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA18883 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:56:31 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:56:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 24684 invoked from network); 28 Feb 1999 20:52:06 -0000 Received: from 100.64.3-6.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.231.64.100) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 1999 20:52:06 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990228125656.2e5febb0@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: 1840's round dresses Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 10:29 AM 02/28/1999 -0800, Margo Anderson wrote: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >Well, I went to Sutter's Fort yesterday, and bought David Rickman's >excellent costume manual. This should be a great help to me in planning my >"Wagon Train Costuming" classes. (although he's looking at the 1840's and >I'm doing 50's.) > >Of course, I have questions. He states that the usual dress for emigrant >women was the plain round dress, a dress with a fitted bodice, front >opening, and round, not pointed, waistline, and says: > > "A corset or "stays" were never practical for the hard labor of >these women's lives, nor do they seem to have worn them for best dress >either. The typical round dress of this era was never as tightly fitting in >the bodice as the corseted figure demanded, nor were they 'boned' >.......Given the fact that most of these women as we have shown, did not own >more than two or three dresses, and often used their work dress for best, >corsets would have been a needless extravagance." > >While style and a fashionable sillouhette may not have been important to >these women, I can't help but think that at least some of them must have >worn something to provide support for their breasts. Not only were they >working in these dresses, but on the emigrant trail, most of them were >either walking or riding horses all day. As Rickman states, the bodices >don't seem to have been tight enough to bind the breasts. He does mention >waistcoats, sleeveless garments worn for warmth. I wonder if there might >have been something similar, tight enough to support and or bind the breasts >much as a modern sports bra works. Does anyone have any information on >this? I don't want to have modern bra lines showing under my work dress, >but even less do I want to bounce and sag along Main Street while trying to >look respectable! > >Margo Anderson Dear Margo, This is Joan Jurancich, a member of the Costume Committee for Sutter's Fort. I thought (actually, couldn't resist ) I could address your question since we (the CC) deal with this problem. IMO, while Rickman did put together a generally useful and good costume guide for outer garments, he doesn't really understand much about women's stays and corsets (this is understandable). Some support garments would be needed by many, though not all, women for comfort as well as decency (as defined in the USA at the time). Comfortable stays which give support to the bust and leave one able to do one's necessary work are what I would recommend. I wear them whenever I am at the Fort in costume. The clothing does not look right without the proper undergarments; the closest modern undergarment to stays that I am aware of is the long-line bra, which is simply a corset under another name. By the 1850s, California was a fully American place, with American "standards" of dress and decency. A properly fitted corset, though not tight lacing (which was preached against by doctors for years; it was usually a problem only with young, unmarried women trying to find husbands), would likely be a part of any decent woman's wardrobe. Hope this helps, Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 15:52:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24880 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:52:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11704; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:08:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA18861 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:56:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from m26.boston.juno.com (m26.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.187]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA18852 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:56:19 -0700 (MST) From: wench359@juno.com Received: (from wench359@juno.com) by m26.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D4KTV232; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:56:06 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:58:32 -0800 Subject: H-COST: Dry Cleaners in SF area? Message-ID: <19990228.125837.-67051.0.Wench359@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-3,6-7,9-17 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: wench359@juno.com Can anyone recommend a good dry cleaner in the SF area who's willing to touch vintage garments? Ideally someplace in the East Bay. After cleaning out closets after the roof sprung a new leak, I discovered that the 1870's man's suit I had stored there has a few mildew spots on it. I also just obtained a man's tailcoat of an unknown but old vintage that really needs to be presssed if not cleaned. Any and all assistance greatly appreciated. Thanks! - Cat ---------------------------------------------- Mistress of Pewter Wench #359, Int'l Wenches Guild Executive Babysitter Starquest '97- '98 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 15:53:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24887 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:53:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA11777; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:08:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id NAA18896 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:56:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id NAA18884 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:56:31 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:56:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 24684 invoked from network); 28 Feb 1999 20:52:06 -0000 Received: from 100.64.3-6.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (207.231.64.100) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 1999 20:52:06 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990228125656.2e5febb0@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: 1840's round dresses Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 10:29 AM 02/28/1999 -0800, Margo Anderson wrote: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >Well, I went to Sutter's Fort yesterday, and bought David Rickman's >excellent costume manual. This should be a great help to me in planning my >"Wagon Train Costuming" classes. (although he's looking at the 1840's and >I'm doing 50's.) > >Of course, I have questions. He states that the usual dress for emigrant >women was the plain round dress, a dress with a fitted bodice, front >opening, and round, not pointed, waistline, and says: > > "A corset or "stays" were never practical for the hard labor of >these women's lives, nor do they seem to have worn them for best dress >either. The typical round dress of this era was never as tightly fitting in >the bodice as the corseted figure demanded, nor were they 'boned' >.......Given the fact that most of these women as we have shown, did not own >more than two or three dresses, and often used their work dress for best, >corsets would have been a needless extravagance." > >While style and a fashionable sillouhette may not have been important to >these women, I can't help but think that at least some of them must have >worn something to provide support for their breasts. Not only were they >working in these dresses, but on the emigrant trail, most of them were >either walking or riding horses all day. As Rickman states, the bodices >don't seem to have been tight enough to bind the breasts. He does mention >waistcoats, sleeveless garments worn for warmth. I wonder if there might >have been something similar, tight enough to support and or bind the breasts >much as a modern sports bra works. Does anyone have any information on >this? I don't want to have modern bra lines showing under my work dress, >but even less do I want to bounce and sag along Main Street while trying to >look respectable! > >Margo Anderson Dear Margo, This is Joan Jurancich, a member of the Costume Committee for Sutter's Fort. I thought (actually, couldn't resist ) I could address your question since we (the CC) deal with this problem. IMO, while Rickman did put together a generally useful and good costume guide for outer garments, he doesn't really understand much about women's stays and corsets (this is understandable). Some support garments would be needed by many, though not all, women for comfort as well as decency (as defined in the USA at the time). Comfortable stays which give support to the bust and leave one able to do one's necessary work are what I would recommend. I wear them whenever I am at the Fort in costume. The clothing does not look right without the proper undergarments; the closest modern undergarment to stays that I am aware of is the long-line bra, which is simply a corset under another name. By the 1850s, California was a fully American place, with American "standards" of dress and decency. A properly fitted corset, though not tight lacing (which was preached against by doctors for years; it was usually a problem only with young, unmarried women trying to find husbands), would likely be a part of any decent woman's wardrobe. Hope this helps, Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 16:12:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA24976 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:12:15 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA14070; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:28:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA20436 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:16:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA20430 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:16:32 -0700 (MST) From: MissMela@aol.com Received: from MissMela@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id 6XPFa11674 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:01:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:01:56 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 1840's round dresses Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 205 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MissMela@aol.com In a message dated 2/28/99 10:38:02 AM Pacific Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << From: margo@directcon.net (Margo Anderson) >> Margo, I have been pondering this question for a while now, concerning "waistcoats' and/or vests. I have come to a conclusion, at least for now, that a sleeveless garment, similar to our modern day undershirt was worn from 1840 through 1910 under or instead of a corset for warmth and for it's binding of the breasts in such away as to hold. There are multiple references to this garment as in style, now out of style but still worn for warmth, etc., depending upon whom you are using as a reference. While I am a strong supporter of wearing "the proper underpinnings" for each time period, I think there are times and instances when this is the proper underpinning and I thank heaven that I am small chested! Mela _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 16:18:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA24998 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:18:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA15241; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:35:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA20931 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:23:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA20924 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:23:01 -0700 (MST) From: MissMela@aol.com Received: from MissMela@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id UTKQa07017 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:08:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:08:08 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 1840's round dresses Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 205 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MissMela@aol.com Guess I should have read the rest of my mail before I replied to Margo ! I realize that what I wrote could be construed as saying don't wear a corset. I did not mean it that way. I simply was starting that I have been researching lately on the underwaiste/vest item of clothing and have found more references to it than previously and truly believed they were worn under corsets for warmth and also without corsets in SOME cases (better be small chested and dirt poor) but not as the norm. Joan, good answers! Mela _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 16:25:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA25028 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:25:33 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA16087; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:41:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA21470 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:29:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA21462 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:29:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id NAA18740 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:29:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36D9B471.865AC31B@best.com> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:26:12 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Dry Cleaners in SF area? References: <19990228.125837.-67051.0.Wench359@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press > Can anyone recommend a good dry cleaner in the SF area who's willing to > touch vintage garments? Ideally someplace in the East Bay. > > After cleaning out closets after the roof sprung a new leak, I discovered > that the 1870's man's suit I had stored there has a few mildew spots on > it. > > I also just obtained a man's tailcoat of an unknown but old vintage that > really needs to be presssed if not cleaned. > > Any and all assistance greatly appreciated. Thanks! > > - Cat I have tried more than one cleaner for vintage clothes in the Bay Area. The only one I would recommend is Peninou French Laundry & Cleaners at 3707 Sacramento in SF, 415/751-9200. I have never tried their laundry, but their hand dry cleaning is generally good. They have cleaned 1870s dresses for me; since men's suits are usually sturdier I am sure they could clean an 1870s one. As with any cleaner, be sure to talk to them about the process used before handing over the garments. They have a process called "restoration" that is not what you might think; it is just a stronger cleaning method. Hope this helps, Fran Grimble ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 16:54:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA25135 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:54:58 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA20494; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:10:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA23878 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:58:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA23865 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:58:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [205.217.210.105] (ell242.acadia.net [205.217.210.98]) by p2.acadia.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA17286 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:58:48 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:59:02 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: corsets/19c Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> They certainly were still being worn, even on the frontier, 20 years later: in the upper mid west, Laura Ingalls Wilder subtly makes it clear that her mother always wore a corset, and that she did as well, by the time she was about 15. There are references in Little House in the Big Woods, as well as the later books, when Laura is trying to learn to be a young lady (and complaining about having to wear corsets. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 17:34:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA25308 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:34:07 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA25281; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:50:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA27341 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:38:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA27331 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:38:16 -0700 (MST) From: ArcadiaCB@aol.com Received: from ArcadiaCB@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id 6MRGa02500 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:38:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:38:14 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Dress form and now foot forms? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ArcadiaCB@aol.com Do you have any places that sell old store fixtures, buy up the display fixtures and forms when a store is going out of business? There's one near me that almost always has such forms. Or try looking in the Yellow pages under "Display" for a company that sells new fixtures and display forms. You might even ask a local store where they buy their forms from. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 17:39:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA25363 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:39:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA26098; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:56:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA28085 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:43:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from zeus.directcon.net (root@[206.170.184.2]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA28075 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:43:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p29.directcon.net [206.170.184.78]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA04338 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:37:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:37:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902282237.OAA04338@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: 1840's round dresses Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson MissMela wrote: I have been pondering this question for a while now, concerning >"waistcoats' and/or vests. I have come to a conclusion, at least for now, >that a sleeveless garment, similar to our modern day undershirt was worn from >1840 through 1910 under or instead of a corset for warmth and for it's binding >of the breasts in such away as to hold. So this may have been the period equivalent of a sports bra, i.e. more comfortable to wear when active, but not giving as attractive or fashionable a look? It certainly makes sense. I agree with Joan that Rickman is probably innacurate on this point, due to an understandable lack of personal experience. Well, if I were asked to write about athletic supporters, I might just miss some detail, too! Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 17:44:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA25388 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:44:09 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA26656; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:00:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id PAA28616 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:48:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA28597 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:48:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from wanda (pa-ppp04.hevanet.com [204.119.60.89]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA10941 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:48:55 -0800 (PST) From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST - loose gowns+kirtles Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:40:24 -0800 Message-ID: <01be636b$54c994a0$b250a1d8@wanda> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Wanda Pease" Actually, my first (and so far only) attempt made me look a lot like the Friendship 7 space capsule! (Ok, so I'm showing my age... or... NO! I must have seen it at the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum.. Yeah! That's it!) Regina -----Original Message----- From: Margo Anderson To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sunday, February 28, 1999 9:31 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: H-COST - loose gowns+kirtles > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >At 09:29 AM 2/27/99 -0600, you wrote: >> >>-Poster: seamstrix@juno.com >> >>They seem to have been perfectly acceptable as outdorr wear, many women >>were painted wearing them and there are many listed in Queen Elizabeth's >>Wardrobe. I made one for a large sized lady at Bristol RenFaire last >>summer and it worked out very well for her, it was comfortable and was >>very flattering as it accentuated her height not her width. Just remember >>that you need to wear all the regular undergarments, > >But keep the hoops fairly small, otherwise you'll resemble the remark of a >friend of mine: "You mean that dress that looks like you're wearing a >teepee with your head sticking out the top?" > >I've never been able to bring myself to wear one since... > >Margo > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 20:11:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26011 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:11:30 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id SAA16342; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 18:28:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id SAA10893 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 18:15:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id SAA10884 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 18:15:42 -0700 (MST) From: LuAnnMason@aol.com Received: from LuAnnMason@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id 6JONa20330 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:15:39 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <115581d0.36d9ea3b@aol.com> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:15:39 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: 1840's round dresses Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 224 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: LuAnnMason@aol.com In a message dated 2/28/99 3:58:02 PM EST, joanj@quiknet.com writes: << IMO, while Rickman did put together a generally useful and good costume guide for outer garments, he doesn't really understand much about women's stays and corsets (this is understandable). Some support garments would be needed by many, though not all, women for comfort as well as decency (as defined in the USA at the time). Comfortable stays which give support to the bust and leave one able to do one's necessary work are what I would recommend. I wear them whenever I am at the Fort in costume. >> Thank you Joan! Although I was not the OP on this topic, I also purchased the Sutter's Fort costume guide last spring. While I felt the overall guide was excellent (or whatever the word above "excellent" might be! :-) ), the passage on "no corsets" really struck a wrong chord with me. LuAnn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 22:06:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26464 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:06:23 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA04058; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:22:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA20711 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:10:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA20698 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:10:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip220-249.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.249]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA02964 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:10:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990228221907.0095ed60@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:19:07 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: H-COST: OT - What to see/do in Myrtle Beach In-Reply-To: <115581d0.36d9ea3b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings all, Can anyone recommend places to go, things to see, and fabric stores, etc... in Myrtle Beach? I'm going there in two weeks and have the days to myself. Please email me privately. Thanks. Cheers, Danielle dnunn@interlog.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 22:13:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26501 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:13:26 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA04987; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:29:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA21358 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:16:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA21345 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:16:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D4LHNKMC; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:16:29 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Dress form and now foot forms? Message-ID: <19980924.031124.5351.2.kayherb@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,3-26 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:16:29 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" Well, another boot to the head for me! Thanks! We don't have stores that sell old fixtures, but checking with local shoe stores, etc. never even occurred to me! Kay kayherb@juno.com On Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:38:14 EST ArcadiaCB@aol.com writes: > >-Poster: ArcadiaCB@aol.com > >Do you have any places that sell old store fixtures, buy up the >display >fixtures and forms when a store is going out of business? There's one >near me >that almost always has such forms. Or try looking in the Yellow pages >under >"Display" for a company that sells new fixtures and display forms. You >might >even ask a local store where they buy their forms from. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 22:36:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26613 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:36:19 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA08795; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:52:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA23473 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:40:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA23458 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:40:34 -0700 (MST) From: trekona@erols.com Received: from erols.com (207-172-130-56.s56.tnt3.col.erols.com [207.172.130.56]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA29254 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:40:56 -0500 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: OT:dressform Date: Mon, 01 Mar 99 03:46:44 GMT Message-ID: References: <000501be633e$f6ae68e0$22d67ad1@gideon> X-Mailer: Quarterdeck Message Center [2.00] Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: trekona@erols.com > -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > > Does anyone know where I can buy a "Uniquely You" dressform? They don't > seem to be availible in fabric stores. > Andrea My mother ordered me a tailor's ham last Christmas from Atlanta Thread & Cutlery (yes, I got a Christmas ham!!) who very nicely supplied me with two copies of their mail order catalog. They sell Uniquely You forms for $135.99, Twin Fit forms for $135-145 (hey, it goes up to *my* size which none of the others do!), My Double forms for $135, and the Athena form for $113. Oh, they also carry a Mr Ardis male form for the usual $135 and a Uniquely you pants form. I don't really know if these are good prices, they look it to me (or else I'm getting a very warped idea of money these days), but when I see the prices of many of their other supplies (like T-pins and fiber fill), I'm amazed at the low cost. If anyone is interested in their catalog, call 1-800-847-1001. -Judy Mitchell My mother said the woman on the phone was very nice and they had a good ol' chat, so they don't seem to terribly rushed or harried. They even hand wrote my mother's name in the return address spot, so that I wouldn't open it before Christmas. Now *that's* service! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 22:38:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26623 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:38:08 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA09202; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:54:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA23583 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA23577 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:41:58 -0700 (MST) From: trekona@erols.com Received: from erols.com (207-172-130-56.s56.tnt3.col.erols.com [207.172.130.56]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA00475 for < h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:42:23 -0500 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com (h-costume) Subject: H-COST: oops! Date: Mon, 01 Mar 99 03:48:12 GMT Message-ID: X-Mailer: Quarterdeck Message Center [2.00] Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: trekona@erols.com Drat: that should have read Atlanta Thread & Supply Comany ^^^^^^ not 'Cutlery.' I think I'd best go to bed. -Judy Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 22:42:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26644 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:42:42 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id UAA09773; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:59:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA23998 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:47:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA23982 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:46:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from test (ip220-12.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.12]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA11029 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:47:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990228223015.0095e270@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:30:15 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Figuring out elizabethan waistbands In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >> Which reminds me, has anyone ever >> noticed a picture of an ENGLISH lady wearing those large triangular Spanish >> sleeves? > >Ignoring the whole rest of a very sensible letter... Thank you. >Yes. Lettice Knollys, Countess of Leicester, in that very flashy golden gown >with double sleeves? Those are Spanish round sleeves, I am quite sure. Actually, I'm not talking about Spanish round sleeves, I've seen plenty of them it's the big triangular ones like you see on the portrait of "The Infanta Isabella Clara Eugenia" by F. Del Llano, 1584. It's on pg. 218 of Boucher's "20,000 years of Fashion". She's wearing a stunning, white doublet gown with a gold brocaded pattern and has her hand on the head of her dwarf who is holding two monkeys. Anyone seen these on an English woman? Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Feb 28 22:47:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26663 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:47:52 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA10164; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 21:03:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id UAA24298 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:51:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id UAA24292 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:50:57 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip1.van24.pacifier.com [216.65.139.1]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA21080 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 19:51:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903010351.TAA21080@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 19:51:12 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Figuring out elizabethan waistbands Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19990228223015.0095e270@mail.interlog.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > Actually, I'm not talking about Spanish round sleeves, I've seen plenty of > them it's the big triangular ones like you see on the portrait of "The > Infanta Isabella Clara Eugenia" by F. Del Llano, 1584. It's on pg. 218 of > Boucher's "20,000 years of Fashion". She's wearing a stunning, white > doublet gown with a gold brocaded pattern and has her hand on the head of > her dwarf who is holding two monkeys. > > Anyone seen these on an English woman? Ah, those wonderful Saya sleeves. Alcega has a pattern for them (although it's easy to put them in the armhole wrong, I've seen.) Unfortunately, I'm still looking for an example on someone English. Sigh. I like them too. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Mar 1 00:13:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA27907 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:13:20 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA22433; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:29:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA01841 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:17:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA01834 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:17:28 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id CXXFa04336 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:17:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:17:11 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: Swedish FO- described Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com For those following the story of Judy's Swedish outfit, I was one of the judges for historical costuming at CostumeCon and had the pleasure of seeing this FO up close and from the skin out, as well as reading the documentation Judy produced for it. Outstanding. As she stated, everything was sewn by hand. All parts of the garments were extensively researched from original Swedish sources with a lot of interface between Judy and several experts in Sweden. As could be expected, Judy won awards in documentation and construction in her class (journeyman -- the classes are novice, journeyman and master), as well as judges' choice. Two years ago, at CostumeCon she also won several awards in her class (novice) for a wonderful (and wonderfully researched) Viking outfit. I was also a judge for that competition. Competition at these costumers conventions is very tough. Participants sometimes are professionals, working in theater or reenactment. Judging is comprehensive. We read documentation carefully and examine garments thoroughly. We ask lots of questions. We look at the presentation and fit of the clothes. Bravo Judy! Keep up the good work. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Mar 1 00:20:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA27932 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:20:35 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA23567; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:37:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA02536 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:24:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA02528 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:24:46 -0700 (MST) From: ArcadiaCB@aol.com Received: from ArcadiaCB@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 5ZZJa07010 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:23:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:23:51 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: Dress forms Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ArcadiaCB@aol.com I can't say about the other dress forms, but the prices quoted for the "Uniquely You" form sounds good. I paid $125 for mine in 1991 so it hasn't inflated that much since then. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Mar 1 00:21:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA27939 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:21:24 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA23803; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:38:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA02643 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:25:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA02631 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:25:43 -0700 (MST) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id 6KTEa11675 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:25:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <278d3bcb.36da24cb@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:25:31 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: H-COST: patch Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I've made & used velvet patches, just cut from regular velvet. They can fray a bit, but you can use Fray-Chek on them (or coat with clear nail polish on the back). I stuck it on my cheek with a little Elmer's glue (it washes off with warm water). You can also use spirit gum or two-sided tape. I also have commercially-made patches with some sort of stickum on the back. They are in shapes like stars and crescent moons. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Mar 1 00:22:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA27946 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:22:31 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id WAA23998; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:39:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA02760 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:27:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from hotmail.com (f88.hotmail.com [207.82.250.194]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id WAA02754 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:26:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 7229 invoked by uid 0); 1 Mar 1999 05:26:51 -0000 Message-ID: <19990301052651.7228.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 205.161.179.206 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 21:26:51 PST X-Originating-IP: [205.161.179.206] From: "karrissa david" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Fabric Club Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 00:26:51 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "karrissa david" >I have discovered after crushing disappoint to *never* depend on mail >order if I have a deadline. I think, by law, they have 6-8 weeks to >deliver something. Actually, the law states that a distributor has 2 weeks to mail a purchase out. If it is to be mailed later than two weeks, then the sender must notify the purchaser of when the item will be sent out. Just my two cents. Karrissa ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Mar 1 00:51:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA28088 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:51:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id XAA27418; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:08:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id WAA04927 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:55:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id WAA04920 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 22:55:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from blkhrse (ip46.pdx4.pacifier.com [216.65.146.46]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA27216 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 21:56:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903010556.VAA27216@smtp.pacifier.com> From: "Jill & Ralph" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Tartan in VA Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 21:41:00 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Jill & Ralph" You Know When You've Costuming Too Long... When the subject is "Tartan in VA" and you think "Oh! a new exhibit at the Victoria and Albert" Jill _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Mar 1 02:05:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA02511 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 02:05:13 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id AAA04272; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:22:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id AAA08880 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:09:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from dub-img-12.compuserve.com (dub-img-12.compuserve.com [149.174.206.142]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA08873 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:09:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-12.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id CAA16617 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 02:09:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 02:07:59 -0500 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: H-C: King Alfonso's Book of Chess To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199903010208_MC2-6C39-BCDB@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id CAA02511 Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson The correct title is "Libro de los Juegos de Ajedrez, Dados y Tablas" there is a facsimile of the book of chess, published in Spain, it is on the 2nd hand market and reputedly going for a minimum of 1000 English pounds, but the only copies I've traced are more like 2500 English pounds From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Mar 1 07:56:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA12551 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:56:57 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id GAA23310; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 06:14:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id GAA26164 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 06:01:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from dgs.dgsys.com (robin@dgs.dgsys.com [204.97.64.1]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id GAA26150 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 06:01:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by dgs.dgsys.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA20128 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:01:34 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: dgs.dgsys.com: robin owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:01:34 -0500 (EST) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: H-C: King Alfonso's Book of Chess In-Reply-To: <199903010208_MC2-6C39-BCDB@compuserve.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Mon, 1 Mar 1999, Melanie Wilson wrote: > there is a facsimile of the book of chess, published in Spain, it is on > the 2nd hand market and reputedly going for a minimum of 1000 English > pounds, but the only copies I've traced are more like 2500 English pounds Someone else mentioned the Cantigas. A couple of weeks ago I saw a large facsimile of this in a university library. B/W plates, but there are 212 of them, showing many people. "Las Cantigas: estudio arqueologico de sus miniaturas" by Jose Guerrero Lovillo (Madrid 1949). Not to be confused with many other titles under "Cantigas" that are modern books about the music in this manuscript. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Mar 1 09:07:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA12820 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:07:22 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id HAA28164; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:24:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA01157 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:11:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from sequoia.shu.ac.uk (sequoia.shu.ac.uk [143.52.2.81]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA00865 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:08:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from ntlupus.shu.ac.uk by sequoia.shu.ac.uk with inbound ESMTP (local); Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:08:14 +0000 Received: by ntlupus.shu.ac.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BE63ED.09FBABC0@ntlupus.shu.ac.uk>; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:08:53 -0000 Message-ID: From: "Chandler, Sally" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: First World War Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:10:59 -0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 5 TEXT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Chandler, Sally" Can anyone direct me to pictures of women's utility clothing or factory workers clothing from the First World War on the Web? Thanks, Sally Ann _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Mar 1 09:42:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA13107 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:42:51 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA02808; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:00:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA05912 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:47:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA05891 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:47:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA22909 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:50:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21101 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:49:15 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:49:14 -0500 (EST) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Figuring out elizabethan waistbands In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990228223015.0095e270@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed I know that Queen Elizabeth had "spanish grete sleeves" listed in her wardrobe accounts, but I, too have never seen them on a portrait of an Englishwoman. > > Actually, I'm not talking about Spanish round sleeves, I've seen plenty of > them it's the big triangular ones like you see on the portrait of "The > Infanta Isabella Clara Eugenia" by F. Del Llano, 1584. It's on pg. 218 of > Boucher's "20,000 years of Fashion". She's wearing a stunning, white > doublet gown with a gold brocaded pattern and has her hand on the head of > her dwarf who is holding two monkeys. > > Anyone seen these on an English woman? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Mar 1 09:54:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA13167 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:54:00 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA04151; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:11:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id HAA07104 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:58:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from post.its.mcw.edu (post.its.mcw.edu [141.106.32.10]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id HAA07094 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:58:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from mschulte@localhost) by post.its.mcw.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08086 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:55:57 -0600 (CST) From: Marie Schulte Message-Id: <199903011455.IAA08086@post.its.mcw.edu> Subject: Re: H-COST: foot forms To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:55:55 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <19980924.022444.5351.8.kayherb@juno.com> from "Kathryn L. Herb" at Feb 28, 99 03:38:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marie Schulte > -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" > > And to expand on your inquiry, does anyone know where I can get foot > forms with the lower leg attached? I'm doing custom woolen hose (woven Kay- A friend of mine who makes shoes makes individual lasts of a person's feet by doing a version of the duct tape/t-shirt pattern. He uses a sock. After taping it up and cutting it off the person, he tapes it back into a 'foot-lower leg form' and fills it with the aerosol foam insulation. Maybe that will work for you. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Mar 1 09:59:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA13194 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:59:55 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA05123; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:17:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA07997 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:04:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA07925 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:04:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from home (pool029-max7.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.231.79]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA12463 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:04:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:10:22 -0800 Message-ID: <01BE63B2.927F5720.mhull@earthlink.net> From: Hulett To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: foot forms Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:10:16 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 32 TEXT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hulett That is exactly what I did on my whole dress form. It worked great. (I did fill the body cavity with regular foam though, just the legs and arms were hard foam) cheers, jd -----Original Message----- From: Marie Schulte [SMTP:mschulte@post.its.mcw.edu] Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 6:56 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: foot forms -Poster: Marie Schulte > -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" > > And to expand on your inquiry, does anyone know where I can get foot > forms with the lower leg attached? I'm doing custom woolen hose (woven Kay- A friend of mine who makes shoes makes individual lasts of a person's feet by doing a version of the duct tape/t-shirt pattern. He uses a sock. After taping it up and cutting it off the person, he tapes it back into a 'foot-lower leg form' and fills it with the aerosol foam insulation. Maybe that will work for you. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Mar 1 10:28:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA13333 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:28:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA09245; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:45:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA12099 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:33:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from centum.utulsa.edu (centum.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.199]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id IAA12075 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:33:00 -0700 (MST) Received: by centum.utulsa.edu for H-COSTUME@INDRA.COM; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 9:32:58 -0600 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 9:32:58 -0600 From: "I. Marc Carlson" To: H-COSTUME@indra.com Message-Id: <990301093258.17624e@centum.utulsa.edu> Subject: H-COST: Thread Sizing Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" I'm had a question for a shoemaking forum I'm on, and after getting a response that doesn't quite answer my question, I thought I'd drop it here also and hope that someone can help. I will be adding (with permission) the other response I received. Please note that unless I am told explicitly not to, I will be cross-posting the more informative responses to the the Crispian Colloquy at (www.bootmaker.com/hcc.htm): - By Marc Carlson on Sunday, February 28, 1999 - 09:39 pm: - I have what may seem like a stupid question, but how do different - shoemakers define their threads. I mean I have heard terms like "#10", - "10 ounce" and "35/2" used to describe various threads. Any - thoughts? - Marc - lib_imc@centum.utulsa.edu - By DR OBUV on Monday, March 1, 1999 - 07:15 am: - MARC--You have indeed touched on a tricky area here, and I hope somebody - might jump in who knows more than what little I can offer. Hand-sewing - thread, plied-up to size for a job, is made from a single strand of "hand - thread". This base thread size, say #10, in 5,7,9, etc. plys, would give - you, for example, a 5x #10, etc. Formerly single strand "hand thread" was - available in more sizes, like #12, etc. Today all I can find is #10, and - this varies in size. We are also forced to use hand-weaver's wet-spun - flax/hemp single-ply yarn, like Webs brand, which comes in it's own - peculiar number sizes, like 20/1,18/1, whatever that means. "Linen" - machine twist runs to another size range ,which stipulates both number - of strands [i.e.,3], and total size [i.e.,18], such as 3/18, 3/25 and - 3/35 being the most common "linen threads" sold today. Most nylon threads - are sold in old "silk sizes" which can run either by letters [A-G], or - numbers. To make matters worse, multi-stranded "linen" sole-stitcher - thread is sold by number of strands, not size, such as 5 "cord", 7 "cord", - etc. These sizes relate to needle and awl sizes in the machines. The - confusion begins when one tries to relate one number-size system to threads - not made in that number-size system. I just got a 225 grm. spool of 3/18 - "linen" machine twist that has a finished size almost the same as a #5 cord - stitcher thread. Some of the early 20th c. texbook give charts that relate - "silk" sizes to the others, but today the product is so inconsistent, it - might be more confusing than helpful. Personally, I am trying to find some order in this chaos - and my test is to figure out what the "linen thread" that Tandy sells is called, and what that's supposed to mean :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Mar 1 10:31:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA13346 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:31:34 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA09869; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:48:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA12550 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:36:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.pacifier.com (root@smtp.pacifier.com [199.2.117.96]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA12538 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:36:09 -0700 (MST) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip101.van15.pacifier.com [216.65.137.101]) by smtp.pacifier.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA01323 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:36:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903011536.HAA01323@smtp.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:35:50 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: H-COST: Proud of Merouda Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199803161717.JAA04690@zeus.directcon.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com I don't know if Merouda will let everyone else know, but we can be quite proud of her. She won the Twelfth Night An Tir Costumer's Guild costume competition for her experience level! She was up against a large number of people with some stiff competition. Her garment was very well made and well documented (as well as looking very nice on her!) We (the judges for the contest) were quite impressed with her. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Mar 1 10:42:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA13404 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:42:39 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id IAA12089; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:59:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id IAA14378 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:46:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp2.gte.net (smtp2.gte.net [207.115.153.31]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id IAA14367 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:46:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from gte.net (1Cust56.tnt1.everett2.wa.da.uu.net [153.35.253.56]) by smtp2.gte.net with ESMTP id JAA11307 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:46:28 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36DAB58F.648B3C4B@gte.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 07:43:11 -0800 From: Lady Eleanor X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re:Foams...reg. vs hard?? Hunh? References: <01BE63B2.927F5720.mhull@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lady Eleanor "Regular foam"..."hard foam"??? Could you supply any brand names here? Thanks, Lady Eleanor Hulett wrote: > > -Poster: Hulett > > That is exactly what I did on my whole dress form. It worked great. (I did > fill the body cavity with regular foam though, just the legs and arms were > hard foam) > cheers, jd > > -----Original Message----- > From: Marie Schulte [SMTP:mschulte@post.its.mcw.edu] > Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 6:56 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: foot forms > > -Poster: Marie Schulte > > > -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" > > > > And to expand on your inquiry, does anyone know where I can get foot > > forms with the lower leg attached? I'm doing custom woolen hose (woven > > Kay- > > A friend of mine who makes shoes makes individual lasts of a person's feet > by doing a version of the duct tape/t-shirt pattern. He uses a sock. > After taping it up and cutting it off the person, he tapes it back into a > 'foot-lower leg form' and fills it with the aerosol foam insulation. > Maybe that will work for you. > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Mar 1 11:48:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13868 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:48:03 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA23097; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:05:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id JAA26429 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:52:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from m16.boston.juno.com (m16.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.192]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA26066 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:50:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m16.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D4MX464L; Mon, 01 Mar 1999 11:48:22 EST To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Proud of Merouda Message-ID: <19990301.083201.4783.1.cley@juno.com> References: <199903011536.HAA01323@smtp.pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,4-33 From: cynthia j ley Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 11:48:22 EST Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: cynthia j ley I heartily second that! The entry was beautiful, not a detail missed, and her documentation was thorough and well presented. Merouda, any chance you could post your cotehardie on a web site for all to see? Congratulations! :-) Arlys On Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:35:50 +0000 kat@grendal.rain.com writes: > >-Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > >I don't know if Merouda will let everyone else know, but we can be >quite proud of her. She won the Twelfth Night An Tir Costumer's Guild >costume competition for her experience level! > >She was up against a large number of people with some stiff >competition. Her garment was very well made and well documented (as >well as looking very nice on her!) We (the judges for the contest) >were quite impressed with her. > > >Kat > >Kat(June Russell) >kat@grendal.rain.com >Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Mar 1 11:57:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13958 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:57:56 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA24712; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:14:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA28162 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:01:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from vail.telesensory.com ([12.7.233.4]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA28143 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:01:30 -0700 (MST) Received: by vail with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:01:45 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Vickers, Jill" To: "'h-costume'" Subject: H-COST: Where To Purchase Corset Book? Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:01:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vickers, Jill" I have just been informed by Amazon.com that they cannot get a copy of The Little Corset Book by Bonnie Holt Ambrose for me. Does anyone know where else I can try to get a copy? On-line or mail order sources are best. While on the subject...can anyone provide me with a review of this book? It looks like it may be helpful, I have not been able to get much information on it. Thanks, -Jill _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Mar 1 12:07:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14028 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:07:36 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA26809; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:24:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA00643 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:12:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA00602 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:11:59 -0700 (MST) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id RJZHa20088 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:34:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8403b02c.36daa573@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:34:27 EST To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: H-COST: uniquely you Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com My husband bought me my Uniquely You dress form three years ago at Joanne Fabrics. It was on sale for$99. The store doesn't always have dress forms displayed, but you can always order them. So you might check your local store even if they don't have a display. I really like the form, although it is not at all my shape. The company doesn't seem to have changed the shape of the thing since the 1950s, so the breasts are cone shaped and it has no stomach or rear end to speak of (as if it's wearing a girdle!). I spoke to the company several times by phone, not sure if I had the right size -- I was still nursing and I knew that my body shape would change. The people I spoke to were all extremely helpful, and told me that when I was pretty sure my shape was stable, I should call back and they would give me detailed instructions on how to pad it (my behind will NEVER be that flat). I've never called, because I'm still losing some weight and I haven't needed to make any really form-fitting garments. But I'll tell you, it's great to have a dress form! It's exactly my height and approximately my shape, and it has made a huge difference in my sewing. Mostly because I can be so much more confident about whether what I'm doing will fit. So I recommend the company and the product. Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Mar 1 12:24:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14139 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:24:44 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA29774; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:42:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA03454 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:29:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.vcnet.com (mailadm@mail.vcnet.com [209.239.239.15]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id KAA03389 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:29:02 -0700 (MST) From: KaosWarior@vcnet.com Received: from [209.239.238.133] by mail.vcnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-39954U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA12404 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:29:08 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:33:06 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Where To Purchase Corset Book? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: KaosWarior@vcnet.com >-Poster: "Vickers, Jill" > > >I have just been informed by Amazon.com that they cannot get a copy >of The Little Corset Book by Bonnie Holt Ambrose for me. > >Does anyone know where else I can try to get a copy? On-line or mail >order sources are best. > >While on the subject...can anyone provide me with a review of this >book? It looks like it may be helpful, I have not been able to get much >information on it. > >Thanks, >-Jill > > > Try Borders.com you may have some luck with them ;-) C-YA! Scott _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Mar 1 12:31:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14182 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:31:54 -0500 Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA01358; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:49:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id KAA04776 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:36:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with SMTP id KAA04759 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:36:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Mon, 01 Mar 1999 09:36:04 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990228.125837.-67051.0.Wench359@juno.com> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:41:07 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Dry Cleaners in SF area? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: wench359@juno.com > > >Can anyone recommend a good dry cleaner in the SF area who's willing to >touch vintage garments? Ideally someplace in the East Bay. > >After cleaning out closets after the roof sprung a new leak, I discovered >that the 1870's man's suit I had stored there has a few mildew spots on >it. > >I also just obtained a man's tailcoat of an unknown but old vintage that >really needs to be presssed if not cleaned. > >Any and all assistance greatly appreciated. Thanks! > >- Cat Hi, I've used Euwell's, on the corner of Alcatraz and Martin Luther King in Oakland. They were recommended to me by Katie Kliot from Lacis. I've used them for years and been very happy the whole time. You might call Lacis to see if they have any other suggestions. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME
Has anyone had any experience ordering from www.fabricclub.com?   I = am having=20 problems with them regarding an order that should have been here half a = week=20 ago.  Ordinarily, I would figure the problem is with the post = office,=20 but  "help" I've gotten from their customer service has = been so=20 questionable that I'm not convinced that they shipped it when they said = they=20 did.  It's not a good sign when you have to e-mail a company twice = over 2=20 days (they responded to the first one saying that they'd have to check = on it)=20 and follow it up with a phone call before they'll tell you the status of = your=20 order.  OTOH, if most people have had good experiences with them, = I'll give=20 them the benefit of the doubt.
-Poster: PiranhaBB@aol.com

Checking out a Virtual Museum, I ran across this portrait....

http://www.hol.gr/cgfa/g/p-gheeraerts2-1.htm

What kind of lace is that on the table at her left hand?  Is it lace at all?

Best regards,
Lisa
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